36: Impossible Astronauts
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this is the incomparable podcast and yet
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it's not this is our sort of strange
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flash podcast sudden unexpected podcast
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to talk about Doctor Who which the
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two-part season premiere wrapped up over
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the weekend and we have gathered a small
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contingent of incomparable panelists
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here to do a quick conversation about
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the first two episodes of series 6 of
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Doctor Who joining me
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I'm Jason smell that's who they're
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joining joining me Dan Morgan I Jason hi
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Glenn fleischmann howdy John siracusa
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know all
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hello and serenity Caldwell hello hello
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so the day of the moon was the episode
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this weekend following the impossible
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astronaut lots of stuff in this two-part
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huh like overflowing bag full of stuff
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and lots of callbacks to we know we have
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some culmination of a bunch of stuff
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that happened throughout season five do
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we the silents it was I reference to
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about don't think anything culminated
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only people it works next chapter a word
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mentioned in a previous season was
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referenced again now we don't know it's
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all the things the doctor we know that
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we know that a river song is s song is
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constantly refer to the fact that she
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kills the best man she knows we see the
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doctor killed dead we see we know that
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she we know when he's gonna be killed
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now offensively we know that she does it
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but somehow there's an astronaut suit
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their involved we know that I'm the ctrl
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shift from the larger episode the the
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demands for the broken spaceship is the
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control system that the silence was
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using we're starting to get a lot of you
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know things starting to thread together
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turn into a tapestry I yeah I think you
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would you may be laying more
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connectivity on those things that was
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actually there we shall see i think i
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think some of that was accident like oh
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yeah we can use the larger TARDIS baked
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artists too
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tie this in with the silence that's how
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saving budget money
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yeah yeah also get red though so silence
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will fall I assume that that one of the
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twist and the season is going to be that
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that we've seen the silence fall now and
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it's not gonna ultimately be a good
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thing that it wasn't about the silence
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coming and bringing about this but that
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actually that by the doctor kind of
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taking a whack at them he's caused
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terrible things to occur is basically
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turned the entire American population
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into murderers for the world but mostly
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Erica that's that's what happens to the
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dead bodies today i wanna see the dead
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bodies they still exert a psychic
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influence as i know you're walking as
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a-rod knows what about all the silence
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all the places where there's no
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television
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yeah interesting well there are counted
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all and hide nepal and this that partly
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altogether that well I mean I love the
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idea right it doesn't make any sense i
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think when when you process it but i
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love the idea of the monster that you
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can't remember that you can see it when
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you're looking at it and you turn away
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and it's as if it was never there that's
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going to highlight zone episode seems
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familiar to me it's look behind you just
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right now you'll find out why
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yeah it's a so my my criticism of these
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episodes is that although they were
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really kind of action packed and there
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was they looked great and there was a
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lot of interesting stuff kind of matched
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into them that I found them kinda
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unfulfilling that it wasn't even that
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that some questions were resolved and
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others were not as much as nothing was
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resolved it felt completely like set up
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for the rest of the season and I don't
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mind having set up for a story arc the
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last the whole season but to me you know
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i feel like they need to be
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self-contained episodes too and this
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this didn't feel like that at all this
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felt like a bunch of stuff put in a
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blender and then at the end you're like
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well I guess we'll find out sometime you
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know in seven weeks or maybe in October
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well Franklin little i was saying this
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is a mirage of information right where
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you're just getting one thing that I
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mean the first 15 minutes of the show
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the doctors killed dead and you just
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kind of like okay we're back from
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vacation everything's wait what the heck
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is going on and then I mean it's just
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it's action be after-action me there's
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really no downtime for everybody to kind
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of process about lit and even coming
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back in the day I felt I felt more
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acutely with the second episode i think
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i'm with the first mainly that hole
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opening scene where you got any well yes
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but like at the same time you know it's
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supposedly three months later there's
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never it's never really explained what
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they were doing for all three months or
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why they had to pretend to have the
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doctors a prisoner or I mean like there
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are some potential explanations for why
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this year's ruse to to create this
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prison that they couldn't see it but it
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seemed like overburden is low over rock
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for for what they're trying to do and
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arm is everybody in on it is does he
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have a magical gun where he can shoot
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Amy and Rory and and they don't actually
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die like a really good actor but all but
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all the other all the other everything
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they can be transplanted body bags for
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days at a time without suffocating or
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using a bathroom and then also he's back
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on the FBI for this three-month stint
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and and again and again
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why not I mean it's it just struck me as
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being that thing we need is we need some
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scenes with people running around and
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there's action and then a misdirection
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there's a lot of good stuff in there I
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think they needed to slit like in they
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needed to take stuff out they look like
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a red like they had all these great
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ideas and what we got to get them all
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into this one episode shot we have the
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budget for this episode let's use it
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here's my fundamental problem with the
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silent so far this is the unresolved
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question every major Doctor Who villain
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has something behind right the Cybermen
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want to assimilate everybody the Daleks
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want extremely all life forms the master
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wants to control and remake reshape the
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university's own image he likes warlike
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silence he wants its kind of crazy thing
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right but a little motivation for the
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silence like it seems to be very
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inconvenient to run everything like this
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is always the like I was asking
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questions Twitter the day I did not get
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a good response
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why did Emperor Palpatine want to run
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the Empire it's like it's a big asshole
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like you know live forever whatever
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that's all you know the this is being
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but like what is the silent while living
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in tunnels and manipulating all this
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stuff when they want to destroy the
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entire universe or do they not
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it's lacking the fundamental
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world-beater reason for all this other
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kind of lazy little quiet you know haha
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and but and yet if you want to freaking
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spacesuit you could build it yourself or
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you could you could convince humans to
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have an entire i'm also not clear as
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baseball's on we thought we saw one of
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the mic vaporize some lady and in the
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bathroom and like episode 12 singer tips
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and it's like no one else gets killed by
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them know even even in many situations
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where probably want to wear it a lot
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more convenient for them to just kill
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whoever was getting in there is no part
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of this is the plot of of a curve
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vonnegut book
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sirens of titan where spoiler on kurt
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vonnegut book is that in the whole of
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human civilization is to create a funny
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piece of metal that needs to go to
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tighten in order for an alien spaceship
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to continue its mission they've
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manipulated civilization for millions of
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years to make this happen
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this sort of the plot here in the
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silence manipulating to get like a darn
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space shoot me they spent thousands of
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years ago and you don't think all the
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interviewers are if you think back to
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last season the implication is that the
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silence has something to do with the
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TARDIS going to amy's wedding day and
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exploding and cracking a hole in the
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universe and again it's out there and I
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at this point I can't detect how much of
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this is set up and how much of this is
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just ridiculous plot holes and I have a
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feeling that that it's a little bit of
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both but there's no I feel like there's
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no resolution coming for ages that he
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was said he's essentially just sort of
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set the table here and said here are all
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the things i'm going to move around this
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season and I don't have a fundamental
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problem with that as long as they you
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know I you know as long as the episodes
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themselves in fulfilling in some way but
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they didn't really feel fulfilling and
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then at the end I i thought it really
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felt flat when when he actually comes
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out and says well we could go
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investigate all these things that we
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just learned about the team is admitting
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he's hiding venture to monitor the week
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it's like lost right it's like I could
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ask you lots of questions but I'm not
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gonna I mean at least he says it but
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yes he does say it but that doesn't
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really observe him or or Steven Moffat
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from the fact that we kind of got this
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mishmash of of some titillating things
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right i mean a little girl regenerates
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who is she why is she there I I I think
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Lana I have some ideas I i don't know
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whether we should say them out loud or
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not for fear that will be
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finally love ruined the we will have
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ruined the entire thing but I mean lost
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let's see him right
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ok ok you know so so so who kills the
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doctor in the who's wearing the space it
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its response river something but at a
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previous age my my thinking is river
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song is amy pond's child and that
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somehow she got crossed in the
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timestream there so that she has Time
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Lord regeneration powers which was a
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silence which topic she's I'm head right
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that's what I meant when he says she
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sort of likes or absorb the fetuses
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absorb the energy of the time vortex
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right artists and if so that's the towel
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or networks and then yeah
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test ones out there was ever pregnant
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the targets before so the but the
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related thing is that they talked about
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the baby because i was passing the
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spaceman are feeding off the child are
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coming to feed off me
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they're feeding off her time energy so
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they've captured her they put her in
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this space suit so they can use it as
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their power source well and the logic
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and the logit artist needs a if you
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remember in the larger it needs a human
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won't pilot it and that yet the doctor
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is too much for it so there's a
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suggestion that perhaps they're trying
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to create somebody who can steer that
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thing and fly the map where they want to
[TS]
00:09:57
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go half Time Lord
[TS]
00:09:59
◼
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yeah you do that that other doctor from
[TS]
00:10:01
◼
►
the daughter of the universe
[TS]
00:10:03
◼
►
that's right let's get when they kill
[TS]
00:10:05
◼
►
the doctor and the very first scene
[TS]
00:10:06
◼
►
though i'm sure they wanted that to be
[TS]
00:10:09
◼
►
dramatic and important but we we know
[TS]
00:10:12
◼
►
that the doctor regenerates all the time
[TS]
00:10:13
◼
►
and it's a little on 200 years into the
[TS]
00:10:15
◼
►
future and if you still want the same
[TS]
00:10:17
◼
►
200 years into the future you know he's
[TS]
00:10:19
◼
►
not going to actually die because
[TS]
00:10:20
◼
►
they're not going to keep Matt Smith
[TS]
00:10:21
◼
►
around for 200 years
[TS]
00:10:23
◼
►
no you forget the david tennant to the
[TS]
00:10:24
◼
►
same thing that was in the season finale
[TS]
00:10:26
◼
►
david tennant talks about the the would
[TS]
00:10:29
◼
►
have called them and it's like they fit
[TS]
00:10:31
◼
►
you taking awhile is like he said I've
[TS]
00:10:33
◼
►
been bopping around 400 years so they
[TS]
00:10:35
◼
►
kind of built in the notion that could
[TS]
00:10:36
◼
►
be these long and explicable passage of
[TS]
00:10:38
◼
►
time which the time would stay the same
[TS]
00:10:40
◼
►
age whatever reason they roughly look
[TS]
00:10:42
◼
►
this is gonna get me one because you're
[TS]
00:10:45
◼
►
not going to talk about diet they're
[TS]
00:10:46
◼
►
going to erase that event an event that
[TS]
00:10:48
◼
►
killed the whole this whole season is
[TS]
00:10:49
◼
►
about how that event never comes to pass
[TS]
00:10:51
◼
►
so it's hard to take it as a as a
[TS]
00:10:53
◼
►
serious set up we know there's a cheat
[TS]
00:10:55
◼
►
where kids room because there's the
[TS]
00:10:57
◼
►
whole he starts to regenerate and all
[TS]
00:10:58
◼
►
that you know it has
[TS]
00:11:00
◼
►
regeneration energy gone you know have a
[TS]
00:11:02
◼
►
stolen it and will give it back and he's
[TS]
00:11:04
◼
►
not really dead and what you know
[TS]
00:11:06
◼
►
yeah blank read from Max Headroom brings
[TS]
00:11:08
◼
►
the can of gasoline and and and you know
[TS]
00:11:10
◼
►
what there's a lot again how much of
[TS]
00:11:13
◼
►
that is red herring and how much of that
[TS]
00:11:14
◼
►
that is gonna come back it's intriguing
[TS]
00:11:16
◼
►
but it does anybody remember Babylon 5
[TS]
00:11:21
◼
►
there was no nobody does except that
[TS]
00:11:23
◼
►
there was that there's an episode about
[TS]
00:11:25
◼
►
15 called Babylon squared where there's
[TS]
00:11:26
◼
►
basically they take you in
[TS]
00:11:29
◼
►
it's all like setup for a payoff two
[TS]
00:11:31
◼
►
years later of time with based on time
[TS]
00:11:32
◼
►
travel and I got the sinking feeling
[TS]
00:11:34
◼
►
good and it kind of got messed up and I
[TS]
00:11:37
◼
►
got the sinking feeling was always
[TS]
00:11:38
◼
►
watching me Impossible Astronaut that's
[TS]
00:11:40
◼
►
what i was saying I was saying I've seen
[TS]
00:11:41
◼
►
balance where there's even a mysterious
[TS]
00:11:43
◼
►
figure in a spacesuit you don't know who
[TS]
00:11:45
◼
►
it is until much later and i think on
[TS]
00:11:47
◼
►
Wi-Fi they changed the identity because
[TS]
00:11:49
◼
►
the actor left the show and but um you
[TS]
00:11:52
◼
►
know it is just have that feeling like
[TS]
00:11:53
◼
►
this is all kind of arc arc setup and
[TS]
00:11:56
◼
►
and it is gonna get undone in some way
[TS]
00:11:57
◼
►
because it's not as if doctor who was
[TS]
00:11:59
◼
►
going to say well sorry that's it the
[TS]
00:12:00
◼
►
end he's dead
[TS]
00:12:01
◼
►
matt smith and then it's over exactly
[TS]
00:12:03
◼
►
you can't and that you're not going to
[TS]
00:12:05
◼
►
end a 60-year television show with matt
[TS]
00:12:07
◼
►
smith I mean Steven Moffat wouldn't do
[TS]
00:12:09
◼
►
that but I mean I'm gonna have it was
[TS]
00:12:12
◼
►
gonna let her do it now he's laying out
[TS]
00:12:14
◼
►
to you can only have two regeneration
[TS]
00:12:15
◼
►
left one he's on like no other day ready
[TS]
00:12:18
◼
►
time for that entire they've broken
[TS]
00:12:19
◼
►
everything that I figure they wait until
[TS]
00:12:21
◼
►
the last generation to show the governor
[TS]
00:12:23
◼
►
that years ago yeah is a while that's
[TS]
00:12:25
◼
►
the sort of a master's student seen the
[TS]
00:12:27
◼
►
Valeyard though so that's very
[TS]
00:12:29
◼
►
interesting theory that i read after
[TS]
00:12:31
◼
►
watching this was that we have not seen
[TS]
00:12:34
◼
►
the last of the end of this first
[TS]
00:12:36
◼
►
episode in that this the end of the
[TS]
00:12:39
◼
►
first episode where Amy shoots the girl
[TS]
00:12:41
◼
►
and mrs. there's a theory kind of
[TS]
00:12:44
◼
►
floating around that there's a lot more
[TS]
00:12:46
◼
►
that happened there that we have not yet
[TS]
00:12:48
◼
►
seen and we're only seeing kind of bits
[TS]
00:12:51
◼
►
and pieces but i hope so that's what was
[TS]
00:12:53
◼
►
I want more about Shepherd because it's
[TS]
00:12:55
◼
►
really lame and crap out of me and an
[TS]
00:12:56
◼
►
episode you would like I remember sorry
[TS]
00:12:58
◼
►
i missed
[TS]
00:12:59
◼
►
oh yeah like you're like a sec after
[TS]
00:13:02
◼
►
work in a warehouse what the heck
[TS]
00:13:03
◼
►
happened and all that information now
[TS]
00:13:04
◼
►
three months later there's the flashback
[TS]
00:13:06
◼
►
world where were a nice is really sorry
[TS]
00:13:07
◼
►
i missed YG that's it
[TS]
00:13:09
◼
►
yeah so either that was really bad or it
[TS]
00:13:13
◼
►
means some
[TS]
00:13:13
◼
►
thing but we just don't know right so
[TS]
00:13:15
◼
►
I'm left judging and saying that was
[TS]
00:13:16
◼
►
really lame
[TS]
00:13:17
◼
►
you know I want to step back and say I
[TS]
00:13:19
◼
►
actually really enjoyed the two episodes
[TS]
00:13:21
◼
►
despite the gaping plot holes and
[TS]
00:13:22
◼
►
confusing time stuff whatever i thought
[TS]
00:13:24
◼
►
they're beautifully shot i really love
[TS]
00:13:27
◼
►
what's the guy's name Mark shepherd is
[TS]
00:13:30
◼
►
yeah but he was just that pitch perfect
[TS]
00:13:32
◼
►
Nixon was a little bit much but I really
[TS]
00:13:34
◼
►
i just thought the meson saying the the
[TS]
00:13:36
◼
►
richness of it nothing felt cheap the
[TS]
00:13:39
◼
►
aliens were really terrifying yeah so
[TS]
00:13:42
◼
►
big and whatever sounds I mean I think
[TS]
00:13:43
◼
►
that's got that going for me was a
[TS]
00:13:45
◼
►
rousing good show and then when you tell
[TS]
00:13:47
◼
►
them the details you're like all right
[TS]
00:13:48
◼
►
this is sort of disappointing i watched
[TS]
00:13:50
◼
►
both twice and I feel like there's more
[TS]
00:13:52
◼
►
when you watch the second time you pick
[TS]
00:13:54
◼
►
up i'll probably watch them again as the
[TS]
00:13:55
◼
►
season progresses and I think there's a
[TS]
00:13:57
◼
►
lot of little towels includes here and
[TS]
00:13:59
◼
►
there because he just looked at the
[TS]
00:14:00
◼
►
scene in the orphanage was just got it
[TS]
00:14:02
◼
►
was crazy gothic like out of nowhere
[TS]
00:14:04
◼
►
footage and like it you know felt like
[TS]
00:14:07
◼
►
we're watching the shining and you know
[TS]
00:14:08
◼
►
the whole thing was bizarre and closed
[TS]
00:14:10
◼
►
doors and all kinds of stuff that are
[TS]
00:14:12
◼
►
forgetting there's a lot of darkness and
[TS]
00:14:14
◼
►
there 2nite i agree i enjoyed the I
[TS]
00:14:16
◼
►
enjoyed the first episode I mean I
[TS]
00:14:17
◼
►
remember I got to the end of the first
[TS]
00:14:18
◼
►
episode was so caught up in it i was
[TS]
00:14:20
◼
►
surprised like all the way it's over
[TS]
00:14:22
◼
►
you know I felt like it you know as
[TS]
00:14:24
◼
►
you're saying there's a lot of action in
[TS]
00:14:25
◼
►
there and I think part of that is just
[TS]
00:14:26
◼
►
it's very you know it's very immersive
[TS]
00:14:30
◼
►
in it for its action in the first half
[TS]
00:14:32
◼
►
but i agree with you on that sort of it
[TS]
00:14:33
◼
►
as long as you don't think about it too
[TS]
00:14:35
◼
►
hard its kind of enjoyable and then you
[TS]
00:14:37
◼
►
start picking it apart yet losses maybe
[TS]
00:14:39
◼
►
a little bit of us the shine comes off
[TS]
00:14:40
◼
►
of it but i think that that despite that
[TS]
00:14:43
◼
►
there are a lot of good things you know
[TS]
00:14:44
◼
►
in these episodes and i still i watch
[TS]
00:14:46
◼
►
more less for the plots and more for the
[TS]
00:14:48
◼
►
characters which I think for me I enjoy
[TS]
00:14:51
◼
►
you know hearing that the repartee in
[TS]
00:14:53
◼
►
the dialogue there's some good Lori
[TS]
00:14:55
◼
►
stuff in the in the second episode I'm
[TS]
00:14:57
◼
►
long as I can we can we all agree that
[TS]
00:14:59
◼
►
one bad thing was seeing more of Rory
[TS]
00:15:03
◼
►
worrying about who Amy loves him or the
[TS]
00:15:05
◼
►
doctor we spent a whole season on that
[TS]
00:15:08
◼
►
I mean if we're gonna do a whole other
[TS]
00:15:10
◼
►
season of it he's insecure he's not sure
[TS]
00:15:12
◼
►
but in the end she really loves and
[TS]
00:15:13
◼
►
we're gonna do that in every episode
[TS]
00:15:15
◼
►
well then also did it twice right and I
[TS]
00:15:17
◼
►
felt like the one at the end was very
[TS]
00:15:18
◼
►
effective the first one I thought was
[TS]
00:15:20
◼
►
not as much but when they're talking
[TS]
00:15:22
◼
►
about the pregnancy and he's kind of
[TS]
00:15:23
◼
►
eavesdropping
[TS]
00:15:24
◼
►
yeah I like
[TS]
00:15:25
◼
►
that was a better dramatic scene the
[TS]
00:15:27
◼
►
first one was yeah I i agree it was a
[TS]
00:15:29
◼
►
little bit a little bit recycle rapid
[TS]
00:15:31
◼
►
the execution but the idea that this is
[TS]
00:15:33
◼
►
going to be I think it's kinda hoping
[TS]
00:15:35
◼
►
that was the other seat was gonna always
[TS]
00:15:37
◼
►
be the capper to it and like just like
[TS]
00:15:39
◼
►
all right we dealt with this
[TS]
00:15:40
◼
►
she really does love him we're gonna
[TS]
00:15:42
◼
►
move on but I don't think that weeks I
[TS]
00:15:44
◼
►
think she would I think because she knew
[TS]
00:15:45
◼
►
he was listening I think she was
[TS]
00:15:46
◼
►
intentionally saying stuff to reassure
[TS]
00:15:48
◼
►
him and really they're gonna keep
[TS]
00:15:49
◼
►
playing this backup like but what she
[TS]
00:15:50
◼
►
really serious because i think it's more
[TS]
00:15:52
◼
►
over than that I know it's more right
[TS]
00:15:54
◼
►
saying to the fans
[TS]
00:15:55
◼
►
hey guys we're not going to worry about
[TS]
00:15:56
◼
►
this the season here was telling you
[TS]
00:15:59
◼
►
more than that in fact i think this is
[TS]
00:16:00
◼
►
something I felt that they had to do
[TS]
00:16:02
◼
►
because obviously the story arc that's
[TS]
00:16:04
◼
►
coming here is about Amy's pregnancy and
[TS]
00:16:06
◼
►
this kind of like Schrodinger's cat feed
[TS]
00:16:08
◼
►
us which is like pregnant not pregnant
[TS]
00:16:11
◼
►
not what does it mean obviously that's
[TS]
00:16:13
◼
►
part of the story arc I don't think you
[TS]
00:16:14
◼
►
can go down that path without kind of
[TS]
00:16:16
◼
►
clearly establishing look Amy and Rory
[TS]
00:16:18
◼
►
or solid it's not a problem i feel like
[TS]
00:16:21
◼
►
you know that they had to do that
[TS]
00:16:23
◼
►
because now we're gonna go down and talk
[TS]
00:16:24
◼
►
about her baby so your character
[TS]
00:16:26
◼
►
standpoint you there's a character
[TS]
00:16:28
◼
►
standpoint to I mean the doctor as you
[TS]
00:16:31
◼
►
know sort of adulterer
[TS]
00:16:33
◼
►
I think would be makes him a very
[TS]
00:16:35
◼
►
uncomfortable character in right now I
[TS]
00:16:36
◼
►
don't think they would do that to him he
[TS]
00:16:38
◼
►
he can't even kiss a girl without
[TS]
00:16:39
◼
►
flinching so well yeah instrumental
[TS]
00:16:41
◼
►
music and suppose a daughter and we
[TS]
00:16:43
◼
►
really just we just seen this girl
[TS]
00:16:44
◼
►
regenerate right so so i think without
[TS]
00:16:47
◼
►
sort of emphasizing that that the amy
[TS]
00:16:51
◼
►
and and the doctor or not having a baby
[TS]
00:16:53
◼
►
you've got to do that otherwise it's the
[TS]
00:16:55
◼
►
first conclusion you jump too is that
[TS]
00:16:57
◼
►
they did right so i think that's backing
[TS]
00:16:59
◼
►
over the kind of one of the questions
[TS]
00:17:01
◼
►
people might have when that's not the
[TS]
00:17:04
◼
►
intent i think that's why we saw all
[TS]
00:17:05
◼
►
that stuff with amy and well especially
[TS]
00:17:07
◼
►
because she tells him first that she's
[TS]
00:17:09
◼
►
pregnant I mean they're they're badly
[TS]
00:17:12
◼
►
depths there there by slipping in the
[TS]
00:17:13
◼
►
time head reference which i think is
[TS]
00:17:15
◼
►
very important
[TS]
00:17:16
◼
►
hey before we are out of whatever song
[TS]
00:17:18
◼
►
before we get to your assistance she is
[TS]
00:17:20
◼
►
a big Cypress i love the actress to
[TS]
00:17:23
◼
►
pieces I don't think there's ever been
[TS]
00:17:25
◼
►
anybody on doctor who has been has as
[TS]
00:17:28
◼
►
confident as this character you would
[TS]
00:17:31
◼
►
you agree at sochi maybe it'll have to
[TS]
00:17:34
◼
►
do sorry right okay after the fact
[TS]
00:17:36
◼
►
contended that
[TS]
00:17:38
◼
►
yeah it's easy
[TS]
00:17:39
◼
►
uses his old blaster so it's almost kind
[TS]
00:17:40
◼
►
of fitting yeah right but she's i love
[TS]
00:17:42
◼
►
the bit about you know i love i love me
[TS]
00:17:44
◼
►
a good tomb
[TS]
00:17:45
◼
►
oh god that line made me so happy I just
[TS]
00:17:49
◼
►
what it was i love a good to me is like
[TS]
00:17:52
◼
►
what love looks are of exactly what
[TS]
00:17:54
◼
►
archaeology I love a good tune
[TS]
00:17:56
◼
►
oh my god yeah alex kingston is great
[TS]
00:17:58
◼
►
and there were some you know the river
[TS]
00:17:59
◼
►
song thing is is interesting what
[TS]
00:18:01
◼
►
infuriates me about it is that they seem
[TS]
00:18:03
◼
►
to have decided that they are meeting in
[TS]
00:18:05
◼
►
reverse order which based on previous
[TS]
00:18:07
◼
►
poor trails is is not right that they're
[TS]
00:18:10
◼
►
not doing with other around a little bit
[TS]
00:18:12
◼
►
and I where I wonder if they're just
[TS]
00:18:13
◼
►
trying to simplify things for the other
[TS]
00:18:15
◼
►
units they're meeting out of order right
[TS]
00:18:17
◼
►
we know that the right but now she's
[TS]
00:18:18
◼
►
saying its reverse order which is right
[TS]
00:18:20
◼
►
for the first time they can be at least
[TS]
00:18:22
◼
►
a first time they meet for the doctor's
[TS]
00:18:23
◼
►
perspective is the time is her death
[TS]
00:18:26
◼
►
writer right so the time before that she
[TS]
00:18:28
◼
►
met with a doctor who knows her very
[TS]
00:18:30
◼
►
well who said goodbye to her and sent
[TS]
00:18:32
◼
►
her off to the library right so they
[TS]
00:18:33
◼
►
obviously don't meet in reverse order
[TS]
00:18:35
◼
►
they do meet maybe generally in reverse
[TS]
00:18:38
◼
►
order but there's hopping with my head
[TS]
00:18:39
◼
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I'm going to write a timeline so yeah
[TS]
00:18:41
◼
►
there is there is online you can find a
[TS]
00:18:43
◼
►
timeline of it but but I to cleanse
[TS]
00:18:45
◼
►
suggestion earlier i do think that the
[TS]
00:18:47
◼
►
revelations about about river are going
[TS]
00:18:49
◼
►
to be related to this child and whether
[TS]
00:18:51
◼
►
she is Amy's child or not i think that
[TS]
00:18:53
◼
►
would be a sort of like human did you
[TS]
00:18:57
◼
►
know with time energy infused in her I
[TS]
00:19:00
◼
►
don't know it's it
[TS]
00:19:01
◼
►
she seems to factor in those somehow i'm
[TS]
00:19:03
◼
►
just i just don't know what the
[TS]
00:19:05
◼
►
connection actually a great mystery is
[TS]
00:19:07
◼
►
under whose authority is she in prison
[TS]
00:19:09
◼
►
isn't that a fascinating and and she
[TS]
00:19:12
◼
►
continued whenever he wants it makes
[TS]
00:19:14
◼
►
outside earth and a few Slovenes and
[TS]
00:19:16
◼
►
things that we ever see anyone in jail
[TS]
00:19:17
◼
►
and Doctor Who or the master what what's
[TS]
00:19:20
◼
►
the secret of why she goes to storm cage
[TS]
00:19:22
◼
►
i think is just one of those questions
[TS]
00:19:24
◼
►
that's been laying out there is how you
[TS]
00:19:25
◼
►
know who did she kill and I think we're
[TS]
00:19:27
◼
►
going to get that answer right in front
[TS]
00:19:29
◼
►
of that one
[TS]
00:19:30
◼
►
yeah well that was a brilliant scene in
[TS]
00:19:31
◼
►
the first episode she's packing
[TS]
00:19:34
◼
►
well the the there's a theory out there
[TS]
00:19:37
◼
►
that i like that says that the reason
[TS]
00:19:39
◼
►
that she's serving her time and for for
[TS]
00:19:42
◼
►
killing somebody is because she's
[TS]
00:19:44
◼
►
killing she quote killed somebody who
[TS]
00:19:46
◼
►
wanted to cover up their their
[TS]
00:19:49
◼
►
disappearance and if that's the doctor
[TS]
00:19:51
◼
►
that's kind of interest
[TS]
00:19:52
◼
►
and that dovetails with some an
[TS]
00:19:54
◼
►
interview with steven moffat where he
[TS]
00:19:55
◼
►
said one of the fundamental problems
[TS]
00:19:56
◼
►
with modern doctor who is he wanders
[TS]
00:19:58
◼
►
around and everybody knows him and that
[TS]
00:20:00
◼
►
he's this oncoming storm and he's he's
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
you know he's destroyed all these
[TS]
00:20:05
◼
►
different bad guys in all these
[TS]
00:20:06
◼
►
different worlds and that they need to
[TS]
00:20:07
◼
►
kind of take it back a notch to have
[TS]
00:20:09
◼
►
them be just a guy who shows up and
[TS]
00:20:10
◼
►
nobody knows who he is so I do wonder if
[TS]
00:20:13
◼
►
that's the direction they're going where
[TS]
00:20:14
◼
►
this death of his is not it is it's for
[TS]
00:20:17
◼
►
show more than anything else but me he
[TS]
00:20:19
◼
►
didn't invite everybody to his own
[TS]
00:20:21
◼
►
funeral
[TS]
00:20:21
◼
►
yes well not everybody but certainly a
[TS]
00:20:24
◼
►
nice ensemble including himself
[TS]
00:20:26
◼
►
yes this man nice well so this is the
[TS]
00:20:29
◼
►
problem was is river song if she
[TS]
00:20:31
◼
►
actually is being a backwards through
[TS]
00:20:32
◼
►
time she would know she's already seen
[TS]
00:20:35
◼
►
his death right but you can say but she
[TS]
00:20:38
◼
►
can't say and she knows his name river
[TS]
00:20:40
◼
►
you know my name nobody knows that i
[TS]
00:20:42
◼
►
would only tell somebody that when you
[TS]
00:20:44
◼
►
know that whole thing in a in the
[TS]
00:20:46
◼
►
library or the CSS library right someone
[TS]
00:20:50
◼
►
will eventually go through clip all the
[TS]
00:20:51
◼
►
relevant scenes and put them in the
[TS]
00:20:53
◼
►
correct yeah let's just wait and watch
[TS]
00:20:55
◼
►
it out there that'll make it it's gonna
[TS]
00:20:56
◼
►
have so much I want to give a shoutout
[TS]
00:20:58
◼
►
to the guy who played lb elderkin
[TS]
00:21:00
◼
►
delaware the third workshop back blank
[TS]
00:21:02
◼
►
read from his father I'm gonna be was
[TS]
00:21:05
◼
►
blank read and Max Headroom he was
[TS]
00:21:06
◼
►
headed to start correcting he was this
[TS]
00:21:08
◼
►
it's hard and start trying to make
[TS]
00:21:09
◼
►
generation he was in Star Trek six he
[TS]
00:21:12
◼
►
was the Klingon who welcomes them to
[TS]
00:21:15
◼
►
repent a he was in Star Trek the reboot
[TS]
00:21:17
◼
►
as the Vulcan hotel Spock that they'll
[TS]
00:21:20
◼
►
the let him into the anatomy despite his
[TS]
00:21:22
◼
►
community cap it's the Morgan Shepherd
[TS]
00:21:25
◼
►
he has been in any in anything and
[TS]
00:21:27
◼
►
everything is really following in his in
[TS]
00:21:29
◼
►
his footsteps
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
►
yes he is a guest star who is on every
[TS]
00:21:32
◼
►
everything no no he's great
[TS]
00:21:34
◼
►
that's created did not realize that
[TS]
00:21:35
◼
►
that's lovely father and so there sat
[TS]
00:21:36
◼
►
next to each other signing at comic-con
[TS]
00:21:38
◼
►
last year when I got Morgan Shepherd
[TS]
00:21:40
◼
►
autograph Mark shepherd was sitting
[TS]
00:21:41
◼
►
right next to signing autographs for
[TS]
00:21:44
◼
►
fans of supernatural like it is always
[TS]
00:21:47
◼
►
present i did not know at the time to
[TS]
00:21:50
◼
►
call back
[TS]
00:21:51
◼
►
yes so so you know so everybody
[TS]
00:21:56
◼
►
everybody entertained i'm just i was
[TS]
00:21:58
◼
►
disappointed even though i think there's
[TS]
00:22:00
◼
►
a lot of intriguing stuff and i love the
[TS]
00:22:01
◼
►
look of it and I loved some of the
[TS]
00:22:03
◼
►
elements of it in the end I felt kinda
[TS]
00:22:05
◼
►
down and maybe part of that is just
[TS]
00:22:07
◼
►
because I expected to the season opener
[TS]
00:22:11
◼
►
to sort of like get me excited about the
[TS]
00:22:13
◼
►
season and you know it didn't it just
[TS]
00:22:16
◼
►
was a lot of stuff match together i felt
[TS]
00:22:17
◼
►
was like the homework for the rest of
[TS]
00:22:19
◼
►
the season so did everybody else have a
[TS]
00:22:21
◼
►
more positive feeling about tonight i
[TS]
00:22:24
◼
►
would say meets expectations is my
[TS]
00:22:26
◼
►
rating for you
[TS]
00:22:27
◼
►
alright only because my expectations are
[TS]
00:22:29
◼
►
so low for dr. like I thought that I I
[TS]
00:22:33
◼
►
thought it was fine you know like I just
[TS]
00:22:34
◼
►
want expect from guard who a bunch of
[TS]
00:22:36
◼
►
stuff that's kind of sloppy and i put
[TS]
00:22:37
◼
►
together well they don't know how to
[TS]
00:22:39
◼
►
edit it's not it's not tight like you
[TS]
00:22:40
◼
►
know the best of twilight zone or the
[TS]
00:22:42
◼
►
best of you an amazing stories or
[TS]
00:22:44
◼
►
anything like that it's checking out and
[TS]
00:22:46
◼
►
we're on but have the emotional impact
[TS]
00:22:48
◼
►
of war games i need to i didn't close I
[TS]
00:22:52
◼
►
mean that's the thing with doctor who is
[TS]
00:22:53
◼
►
I find it very hard to get invested like
[TS]
00:22:55
◼
►
especially in this episode I i feel like
[TS]
00:22:56
◼
►
these two episodes didn't earn their
[TS]
00:22:59
◼
►
dramatic you know when they do the the
[TS]
00:23:01
◼
►
dramatic dr. music that dun dun dun
[TS]
00:23:03
◼
►
music yeah most good episodes they will
[TS]
00:23:05
◼
►
earn that little little cherry that they
[TS]
00:23:07
◼
►
give themselves in the dramatic moment
[TS]
00:23:09
◼
►
and miss these two episodes of like they
[TS]
00:23:11
◼
►
didn't are in that queue but I'd who
[TS]
00:23:14
◼
►
didn't bother me so much because they're
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
all things Jason's complaining about i
[TS]
00:23:17
◼
►
agree with but I could say the same
[TS]
00:23:18
◼
►
thing about almost any you pick a random
[TS]
00:23:21
◼
►
episode from her past season and it's
[TS]
00:23:22
◼
►
just something I tolerate about Doctor
[TS]
00:23:24
◼
►
Who for the notice to be there for the
[TS]
00:23:25
◼
►
fun ride and I'm just like all right
[TS]
00:23:26
◼
►
i'll go with it whatever i mean i have
[TS]
00:23:29
◼
►
to say that while overall i was
[TS]
00:23:31
◼
►
entertained the the to death sequences
[TS]
00:23:35
◼
►
specifically the doctors death in the
[TS]
00:23:36
◼
►
beginning of the first episode and then
[TS]
00:23:38
◼
►
Rory and Amy's and rivers all fake
[TS]
00:23:40
◼
►
deaths in the beginning of episode two
[TS]
00:23:42
◼
►
they set these all these deaths up its
[TS]
00:23:44
◼
►
big epic things and they kind of come
[TS]
00:23:46
◼
►
out of nowhere and you don't really know
[TS]
00:23:48
◼
►
how I feel about them and i have to say
[TS]
00:23:49
◼
►
that definitely threw me off
[TS]
00:23:51
◼
►
that's the third third fake rory death
[TS]
00:23:53
◼
►
by yes I people were confirmed that he
[TS]
00:23:56
◼
►
is in fact that still be the fake Rory
[TS]
00:23:59
◼
►
or the only not no no don't know i don't
[TS]
00:24:01
◼
►
think he's plastic I don't know he's
[TS]
00:24:02
◼
►
human but he remembers being plastic is
[TS]
00:24:05
◼
►
it when they redid the university became
[TS]
00:24:07
◼
►
real boy
[TS]
00:24:08
◼
►
yeah but he remembers right everything
[TS]
00:24:09
◼
►
like I think there's some ambiguity that
[TS]
00:24:11
◼
►
killed him three times now and brought
[TS]
00:24:13
◼
►
him back
[TS]
00:24:14
◼
►
looks like i'll simply killed in real
[TS]
00:24:15
◼
►
really didn't they 22
[TS]
00:24:17
◼
►
never dies where's had enough seen
[TS]
00:24:20
◼
►
enough you're only supposed to get one
[TS]
00:24:22
◼
►
good death scene is an actor I thought
[TS]
00:24:24
◼
►
that was a bit at the end of the second
[TS]
00:24:25
◼
►
episode when when he doctor the doctor
[TS]
00:24:28
◼
►
says you only live once and they give
[TS]
00:24:29
◼
►
each other a look and I thought at first
[TS]
00:24:31
◼
►
it was worried going like hey dude look
[TS]
00:24:33
◼
►
at me look at you and I was like oh no
[TS]
00:24:35
◼
►
they're talking about the callback to
[TS]
00:24:36
◼
►
the dr dying but i was still like
[TS]
00:24:38
◼
►
everybody seems to have died on friday
[TS]
00:24:40
◼
►
with some amy was dead he was dead they
[TS]
00:24:42
◼
►
restored in the Pandorica ok so go
[TS]
00:24:44
◼
►
so Dan enjoyed generally generally
[TS]
00:24:47
◼
►
correct
[TS]
00:24:48
◼
►
I i say i generally enjoyed I think
[TS]
00:24:49
◼
►
there was a lot of there are some nice
[TS]
00:24:51
◼
►
little touches that I really thought
[TS]
00:24:52
◼
►
well done i love the whole marking all
[TS]
00:24:55
◼
►
the arms and the faces and everything
[TS]
00:24:56
◼
►
that was I was very effective it's been
[TS]
00:24:59
◼
►
could have been a two-parter in and of
[TS]
00:25:00
◼
►
itself though right yeah i mean i think
[TS]
00:25:02
◼
►
that again i think my main complaint is
[TS]
00:25:04
◼
►
that there is too much they needed to
[TS]
00:25:06
◼
►
you know kill some darlings in there and
[TS]
00:25:07
◼
►
say that we just don't have room for
[TS]
00:25:09
◼
►
that's a separate episode or we just got
[TS]
00:25:11
◼
►
to drop it because I think there's too
[TS]
00:25:12
◼
►
much they were in love with in this
[TS]
00:25:14
◼
►
episode as a second the second unit
[TS]
00:25:15
◼
►
really really wanted to do some great
[TS]
00:25:18
◼
►
panoramic us if you want to watch others
[TS]
00:25:21
◼
►
are beautiful shot dr. confidential
[TS]
00:25:23
◼
►
they're like they really wanted to these
[TS]
00:25:25
◼
►
giant shots and they need a giant reason
[TS]
00:25:27
◼
►
to do it so the second it's like let's
[TS]
00:25:29
◼
►
kill roar I mean they're not this year
[TS]
00:25:30
◼
►
on the top of the Glen Canyon Dam
[TS]
00:25:32
◼
►
oh yeah so going eight you liked it me
[TS]
00:25:35
◼
►
yeah yeah I seem to enjoy hide it I
[TS]
00:25:38
◼
►
definitely the thing I liked about i
[TS]
00:25:40
◼
►
will agree with John in heart only in
[TS]
00:25:43
◼
►
part that the doctor who is all about
[TS]
00:25:45
◼
►
sort of sloppy ridiculous what we
[TS]
00:25:47
◼
►
believe wobbly if you if you really
[TS]
00:25:49
◼
►
focus the plan doctor who you are
[TS]
00:25:50
◼
►
inevitably going to be disappointed it's
[TS]
00:25:53
◼
►
not you enjoy repete and the whole sort
[TS]
00:25:55
◼
►
of you know just off of it and it's not
[TS]
00:25:58
◼
►
it has to be fun that way because the
[TS]
00:25:59
◼
►
plots are always like that but I'm but I
[TS]
00:26:01
◼
►
think there are a lot of things that
[TS]
00:26:02
◼
►
really pulled me up short the aliens I
[TS]
00:26:04
◼
►
thought were super creepy i thought it
[TS]
00:26:05
◼
►
was great and even when the doctor died
[TS]
00:26:08
◼
►
I was like holy them so they're watching
[TS]
00:26:09
◼
►
like holy crap like what the like I know
[TS]
00:26:12
◼
►
what I know it has to be a positive
[TS]
00:26:13
◼
►
resolution because i'm not in the series
[TS]
00:26:15
◼
►
but was still I was really shocked a few
[TS]
00:26:17
◼
►
times it's hard to do that as a jaded
[TS]
00:26:19
◼
►
Doctor Who modern version watcher
[TS]
00:26:22
◼
►
alright I I yeah I I see where you're
[TS]
00:26:25
◼
►
coming from
[TS]
00:26:25
◼
►
I'm a little more skeptical i I just I
[TS]
00:26:27
◼
►
just found myself San come on standalone
[TS]
00:26:29
◼
►
episodes I'm really looking forward to
[TS]
00:26:31
◼
►
pirates this coming week right it's like
[TS]
00:26:34
◼
►
it's just hire an attractive pirate ship
[TS]
00:26:37
◼
►
to two weeks though we get a neil gaiman
[TS]
00:26:39
◼
►
penned episode tantalizingly titled the
[TS]
00:26:41
◼
►
doctor's wife yeah looking forward to it
[TS]
00:26:44
◼
►
definitely looking forward to this he's
[TS]
00:26:45
◼
►
been married so so I'm and my prediction
[TS]
00:26:48
◼
►
by the way for the last scene of the
[TS]
00:26:50
◼
►
last episode of this season is that
[TS]
00:26:53
◼
►
Amy's gonna give birth to a baby girl
[TS]
00:26:55
◼
►
and the doctors gonna say hello sweetie
[TS]
00:26:58
◼
►
that's my prediction mark my words what
[TS]
00:27:01
◼
►
I want you think she's but mark my words
[TS]
00:27:04
◼
►
i really think she's River Song
[TS]
00:27:06
◼
►
yeah no I would not be surprised they
[TS]
00:27:09
◼
►
would not surprise me I I get the
[TS]
00:27:10
◼
►
feeling that they're trying to wrap up
[TS]
00:27:12
◼
►
you know or out or at least explain that
[TS]
00:27:14
◼
►
story and explain who she is now that
[TS]
00:27:17
◼
►
they've got this baby involved who's got
[TS]
00:27:18
◼
►
through special traits well remember
[TS]
00:27:20
◼
►
that imagine meeting her imagination as
[TS]
00:27:22
◼
►
a young girl or is it she's a young girl
[TS]
00:27:24
◼
►
which talk about being the doctor
[TS]
00:27:25
◼
►
because she's young she met she meant
[TS]
00:27:28
◼
►
yeah which is the time traveler's wife
[TS]
00:27:29
◼
►
basically which Steven Moffat has not
[TS]
00:27:30
◼
►
been shy from knocking off in numerous
[TS]
00:27:33
◼
►
ways so why not again when he's publicly
[TS]
00:27:36
◼
►
acknowledged yes he has now it's nice
[TS]
00:27:38
◼
►
nice of him to do that so any other
[TS]
00:27:40
◼
►
final parting thoughts for this before
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
we go on to a hundred pirate ship
[TS]
00:27:44
◼
►
I love the firefight at the end of the
[TS]
00:27:47
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second episode with with river and the
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doctor trying to fire people with the
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screwdriver is like what are you doing
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I'm so he like shielding or something
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now I don't think he's doing anything I
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think he just wants to feel useful
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meanwhile she actually kills people just
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00:28:01
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distracting the silence yes okay face
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mark thing bothered me a little bit but
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the so I like the idea of the things
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that you don't remember in making marks
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to remember it but a why would you do is
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hash marks we have like a number system
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00:28:13
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that takes up less room and be why would
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you ever put barks in your face you can
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see it in your face unless you have a
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mirror so how can you be checking that
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00:28:19
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the numbers of changes the last time I
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00:28:22
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know they had the reflection in the
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window it just seemed it seems silly to
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vegas that they went for drama but I
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feel like writing on your hand with
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numbers may what would have made more
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sense and you wouldn't have lost
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anything they could use binary notation
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that would have been even worse
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hexadecimal of hexadecimal would have
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been even more space-efficient for
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harder for the audience to read but hash
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00:28:40
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marks and on your face like you're going
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to draw a hash mark on your forehead
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personal it's hard to do try drawing
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hash marks on your forehead and making
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sure that that's one crosses the for the
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US troop previous you try this
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well he did research just like jelly and
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healthy while all choice realize obvious
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choice the obvious choice is to write
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numbers on your hands and they went with
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this other choice which makes no sense
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also I want to have the children wrote
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in giant red letters go home get out of
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here in the north today I thought that I
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thought the ocular date your dad I don't
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have a carrot the crazy you did
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oh I see a lot of course that's because
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they were in fact the children's India's
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exactly that he was great he was like
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that of some kind of like great gothic
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novel found covered in the you know
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something we have the crazy the crazy
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hash marks i read something right after
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I watched the episode where someone's
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like you want to figure out a way to
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00:29:32
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really scare your kids right after
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having them watch this episode let them
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go to sleep and then draw hash marks all
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over haha yeah and i'm waiting for them
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to find a mirror presumably yes so
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because these are now being aired
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simultaneously in the US and the UK
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we've actually tried the experiment of
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watching these we watch these episodes
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with our kids sight unseen and the after
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the impossible astronaut my son demanded
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that he sleep with the door open and the
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light on in the hallway
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yeah that's it that's okay my wife sexy
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what you didn't know it's great to have
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you sitting right there is I had a
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moment being a little scared i had a few
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moments in the basement yesterday after
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watching the episode turning on lights
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and going around dark corners and going
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ok all right just after watching it so
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that's good that's because they were
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behind me Glenn have a spacesuit putting
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education that's good that's right thank
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alright so thank you all for joining me
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00:30:29
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in this crazy flash podcast will try to
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do this again maybe 44 other doctor
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00:30:34
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who's or other things that come up and
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then we post them and there's no editing
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and so everybody gets it exactly as it
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00:30:39
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was here in all of its glory and mess
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what do you want it's an extra thing you
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know what did you pay
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just your valuable time sorry you also
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get the DVD commentary of this episode
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00:30:52
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for free
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00:30:53
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sure I don't understand that when Glenn
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00:30:56
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we're gonna listen to the episode and
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00:30:58
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comment on this actual pot kettle on the
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00:31:00
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podcast again anyway raman singh to to
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00:31:04
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the meta commentary on our actual
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podcast and it hasn't happened yet not
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yet i hope it never does
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but if it does that will be a different
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00:31:11
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episode of the uncomfortable so until
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00:31:13
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next time when we post a proper episode
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00:31:15
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i'm justin still thinking the guests and
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00:31:18
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warren and Fleischmann John siracusa and
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00:31:20
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serenity Caldwell everybody say goodbye
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00:31:24
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that's it thanks for listening
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