The Incomparable

29: Magic Fridge


00:00:00   controllable contest after sold 29-20 [TS]

00:00:09   LMAO welcome back to the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:11   podcast i am your host Daniel one [TS]

00:00:14   sitting in for Jason's now who for once [TS]

00:00:17   has not read the book that is the [TS]

00:00:18   subject of our talk tonight [TS]

00:00:20   now who is illiterate anyways i'm joined [TS]

00:00:25   by a gallery of rogues as you might say [TS]

00:00:27   we have Scott McNulty I Scott hello and [TS]

00:00:32   John siracusa hi John [TS]

00:00:34   hello everybody and the three of us are [TS]

00:00:37   here convening this sort of ad hoc [TS]

00:00:39   meeting at the book club to talk about [TS]

00:00:41   Patrick Rothfuss 'as debut fantasy novel [TS]

00:00:45   from 2007 so you know where we're a [TS]

00:00:47   little bit behind time I guess it's hot [TS]

00:00:49   off the presses the name of the wind and [TS]

00:00:54   part of the reason we're talking about [TS]

00:00:54   it now is that the books sequel The Wise [TS]

00:00:57   Man's Fear just came out what two weeks [TS]

00:00:59   ago or so [TS]

00:01:01   alright so we're we're here to sort of [TS]

00:01:02   wet your appetite [TS]

00:01:05   if you have not read this series well be [TS]

00:01:09   aware that we are going to have some [TS]

00:01:11   spoilers from the first book we're going [TS]

00:01:12   to try to avoid spoilers from the second [TS]

00:01:14   book we haven't all finished reading it [TS]

00:01:15   I think Scott's finish it i'm about [TS]

00:01:17   halfway through John however you like [TS]

00:01:19   ten percent i'm a celeb rater it's a [TS]

00:01:21   it's a long book to it is a half diva [TS]

00:01:23   it's a lot of its a lot of kindle dots I [TS]

00:01:25   don't know what that means but well the [TS]

00:01:28   first one was no was no short one either [TS]

00:01:30   so let's let's just dive right I'm just [TS]

00:01:32   gonna have a heads fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:01:34   harm right now for anybody who has not [TS]

00:01:36   read the name of the way this podcast is [TS]

00:01:38   going to be one probably fairly large [TS]

00:01:40   boiler for this [TS]

00:01:42   we will at the end reveal the name of [TS]

00:01:46   the wind it's it's bob bob bob is the [TS]

00:01:49   name of the wind up with how hard was [TS]

00:01:51   that I could have been a lot shorter [TS]

00:01:52   book very short book two pages so too [TS]

00:01:57   let's get a little low overview of the [TS]

00:01:59   plot of the name of the wind now this is [TS]

00:02:01   a fantasy book in some ways I think what [TS]

00:02:04   would interested me about it is that [TS]

00:02:06   well it has some of the tropes of your [TS]

00:02:08   traditional fantasy book it also feels [TS]

00:02:10   not entirely like you know your standard [TS]

00:02:14   fantasy book I think he plays with some [TS]

00:02:17   of the conventions which is nice [TS]

00:02:18   it's the story of a man named clothes [TS]

00:02:22   job on that could yeah thanks y'all I [TS]

00:02:25   mean he does a good job of pointing out [TS]

00:02:27   in somewhere in the book I think what [TS]

00:02:28   the pronunciation is at some point the [TS]

00:02:30   air corrects somebody a man named for [TS]

00:02:34   both who is kind of a legendary hero and [TS]

00:02:39   the other thing I really love about the [TS]

00:02:41   book is that the layering of the stories [TS]

00:02:43   in that we get the bulk of it through [TS]

00:02:46   coat size like he's relating this story [TS]

00:02:49   and it's being written down by another [TS]

00:02:52   man who subscribe and so you know we [TS]

00:02:55   have it it's all sort of tinged with his [TS]

00:02:57   memory of how he came to be this [TS]

00:02:59   legendary hero but in that ad that adds [TS]

00:03:03   this interesting this interesting [TS]

00:03:05   dynamic because we also have this [TS]

00:03:06   framing story in which he's doing [TS]

00:03:07   relating and it's also there's some [TS]

00:03:09   other stuff going on with you know the [TS]

00:03:12   way that the the world is this fantasy [TS]

00:03:14   world is going which is to say not very [TS]

00:03:16   not very well I don't know if there's a [TS]

00:03:19   good way of summing up sort of what the [TS]

00:03:21   what the plot of name of the wind is [TS]

00:03:23   though I don't you guys either of you [TS]

00:03:25   have sort of like a like a pity one word [TS]

00:03:28   sentence summary or something because I [TS]

00:03:30   would have trouble wrapping up in that [TS]

00:03:31   what the plot is if you take out the [TS]

00:03:34   whole device of the [TS]

00:03:35   the kind of suddenly a bookend but you [TS]

00:03:38   know the kind of flashback story it's [TS]

00:03:40   fairly straightforward right at the the [TS]

00:03:42   otha is that a psychopath [TS]

00:03:44   he is born have a gypsy right and so is [TS]

00:03:48   peace his parents are traveling [TS]

00:03:50   entertainers and he's in this troop and [TS]

00:03:53   threw he has some adventures and he [TS]

00:03:55   loves his parents and he meets some guy [TS]

00:03:57   who can name things and does went to the [TS]

00:04:01   University which is this the one school [TS]

00:04:04   in this world I guess where people find [TS]

00:04:07   out [TS]

00:04:07   arcane things and by the way that's good [TS]

00:04:10   they're having a lot of spoilers in this [TS]

00:04:12   one sentence [TS]

00:04:13   huh [TS]

00:04:13   [Music] [TS]

00:04:21   and then just passed get killed by these [TS]

00:04:24   with a whole troop gets killed by these [TS]

00:04:27   mysterious yeah kind of fairytale beings [TS]

00:04:31   that comical everyone except for Devon [TS]

00:04:34   third whatever the hell his name is [TS]

00:04:36   because he's out in the forest or [TS]

00:04:39   something and so he comes back you find [TS]

00:04:40   everyone dead he's very sad he goes to a [TS]

00:04:43   city he lives as a street urchin for a [TS]

00:04:46   couple of years and then he meets [TS]

00:04:48   somebody who inspires him to go to the [TS]

00:04:51   University himself he's accepted to the [TS]

00:04:53   University he's a shockingly he's a [TS]

00:04:56   stellar student at the University he has [TS]

00:04:58   great aptitude he meets a rich guy who [TS]

00:05:02   is doesn't like him because he's poor [TS]

00:05:03   and he knows a lot more than rich guy [TS]

00:05:05   and there you go that's a bit more than [TS]

00:05:09   one sentence but but it is a reason on [TS]

00:05:12   said it was it with yeah that's a bit of [TS]

00:05:14   a comma splice yeah but I think you get [TS]

00:05:16   did a good job of telling you know sort [TS]

00:05:18   of hitting the high notes there I but [TS]

00:05:20   you know it's not necessarily because [TS]

00:05:22   this is the first book in a series you [TS]

00:05:25   know obviously we don't get like [TS]

00:05:26   everything you know this is only the [TS]

00:05:28   first a part of the art like we service [TS]

00:05:31   were sort of in the name of the when [TS]

00:05:32   you're getting his rise but not [TS]

00:05:34   necessarily you know the middle or the [TS]

00:05:38   end of the story although you get the [TS]

00:05:39   impression from the framing story where [TS]

00:05:41   we having both relate this to his his [TS]

00:05:45   scribe that he's sort of come down in [TS]

00:05:49   the world instead since the frame store [TS]

00:05:50   he's an innkeeper and there is some [TS]

00:05:53   suggestion later on at least towards the [TS]

00:05:56   end of the book that he'd these powers [TS]

00:05:58   these amazing powers which made him this [TS]

00:06:00   legendary hero are no longer available [TS]

00:06:02   to him but it was like I said one of the [TS]

00:06:07   things I really like about it is the [TS]

00:06:08   sort of the layering of the stories [TS]

00:06:10   there i don't know if there was [TS]

00:06:11   something in particular they cut you [TS]

00:06:12   guys in terms of why you find this [TS]

00:06:15   assuming you you you like to the book [TS]

00:06:17   what about it caught your attention and [TS]

00:06:19   sort of set it apart for you [TS]

00:06:21   well I I have a confession to make i was [TS]

00:06:23   a very enthusiastic about doing this [TS]

00:06:25   show this book on the podcast most [TS]

00:06:28   people just want to be on a book podcast [TS]

00:06:30   and you guys read books way too fast for [TS]

00:06:32   me and I already read this one side [TS]

00:06:33   it was a great opportunity so you would [TS]

00:06:35   think I'd be a all set to say lots of [TS]

00:06:37   wonderful things about this book but in [TS]

00:06:39   fact i come here not to praise this book [TS]

00:06:41   but area [TS]

00:06:42   oh but it and yet you are reading the [TS]

00:06:45   second one though so that's an injured [TS]

00:06:47   if you didn't like the first one [TS]

00:06:49   yeah so I heard about this book I [TS]

00:06:52   remember her through the internet and I [TS]

00:06:54   hadn't read a fantasy book in a long [TS]

00:06:55   time and people are making a lot of [TS]

00:06:56   noise about the you know this new guides [TS]

00:06:58   his first book it's a great facebook you [TS]

00:07:00   should read it so I said fine I'll give [TS]

00:07:01   it a try and i started reading it and [TS]

00:07:04   the reason i'm reading the sequel and [TS]

00:07:06   the reason I'm part of the reason things [TS]

00:07:08   anyways there were a lot of things to [TS]

00:07:09   recommend this book I guess I'll start [TS]

00:07:11   before i start shredding at the bits [TS]

00:07:12   with my favorite parts of the book my [TS]

00:07:15   favorite parts about you guys touching a [TS]

00:07:17   lot of them already won i really like [TS]

00:07:19   the the whole magic system in the world [TS]

00:07:23   that the idea of sympathy and that's [TS]

00:07:26   kind of like the the lame magic where [TS]

00:07:29   you can't really do anything too [TS]

00:07:30   exciting and everything is kind of [TS]

00:07:31   balance by semi physical forces and then [TS]

00:07:34   there's like the real magic where you [TS]

00:07:35   have that where you're naming things and [TS]

00:07:38   that's much more mysterious and not as [TS]

00:07:40   commonplace that whole mechanism and I [TS]

00:07:42   takes up a lot of the beginning part of [TS]

00:07:44   the book that that stuff I like I [TS]

00:07:46   thought it was interesting and original [TS]

00:07:48   and a dry like books that do something [TS]

00:07:50   interesting with the magic system and [TS]

00:07:54   that pulled me into it but as i was [TS]

00:07:56   reading the book you know said that God [TS]

00:07:58   gave a good summary of like gypsy dude [TS]

00:08:01   big bad thing happens to the beginning [TS]

00:08:03   of the book everybody killed then his [TS]

00:08:05   you know down period where he's living [TS]

00:08:07   in the streets and stuff like that and [TS]

00:08:09   then sort of his rise up through the [TS]

00:08:10   university but as I was going through [TS]

00:08:12   the book in in ebook form i was looking [TS]

00:08:15   at the little progress meter to a [TS]

00:08:16   certain point I realized wait a second [TS]

00:08:17   there's no way they can wrap this up [TS]

00:08:20   like this is just gonna end I'm going [TS]

00:08:23   rapidly approaching the end of the book [TS]

00:08:24   and almost nothing has happened [TS]

00:08:26   how ya gonna get it is the first book in [TS]

00:08:29   the series so if that's not that big of [TS]

00:08:31   a deal but it kind of bothered me a [TS]

00:08:34   little bit and I was like well you know [TS]

00:08:35   just keep going to apply the rest of my [TS]

00:08:37   throat by the time i was done i had a [TS]

00:08:40   lot a lot of complaints about this book [TS]

00:08:42   and I couldn't believe people were [TS]

00:08:43   raving about it is it [TS]

00:08:44   because this great fantasy novel and [TS]

00:08:45   maybe that is hadn't read fast and I was [TS]

00:08:47   in a long time this is actually an [TS]

00:08:50   excellent example of the genre and I [TS]

00:08:52   just remember the other ones family [TS]

00:08:53   because I was a younger person when i [TS]

00:08:54   read them I don't know but before I go [TS]

00:08:56   through my list of things can you guys [TS]

00:08:58   think of anything about the book that [TS]

00:08:59   you didn't like what do you think I'm [TS]

00:09:00   gonna complain about besides that the [TS]

00:09:02   plot stuff that I just did [TS]

00:09:04   well I for one hit this is another so [TS]

00:09:06   what's included both is a I can't say [TS]

00:09:10   his name so i don't like that be [TS]

00:09:12   ah he's another one of these main [TS]

00:09:14   characters that is incredibly good at [TS]

00:09:16   everything right which I find a little [TS]

00:09:18   annoying everything he tried she like [TS]

00:09:20   the best flute player in the world that [TS]

00:09:23   he writes all these songs that everyone [TS]

00:09:25   knows and he's the best in this class at [TS]

00:09:27   everything and it gets to be a bit much [TS]

00:09:29   because he has all these these [TS]

00:09:31   challenges that are set before him right [TS]

00:09:33   but you know he's going to successfully [TS]

00:09:35   overcome them because he's the smartest [TS]

00:09:37   person in the book he's the most [TS]

00:09:38   talented freshmen in the book he has the [TS]

00:09:41   best voice in the book maybe a little [TS]

00:09:43   flaw here in there wasn't a lot i mean i [TS]

00:09:45   think i think baby at least i'll counter [TS]

00:09:47   that by saying that I think that any is [TS]

00:09:49   definitely true you know he's definitely [TS]

00:09:50   plays pictured as this character is [TS]

00:09:52   incredibly clever i like the times when [TS]

00:09:55   his cleverness doesn't do it for him and [TS]

00:09:58   he's like he's shown it like getting [TS]

00:10:00   ahead of himself I think there's a [TS]

00:10:02   couple of good examples one of which in [TS]

00:10:03   his sort of read his report a with this [TS]

00:10:06   he really wants to study under the guy [TS]

00:10:08   who who is the master of the more [TS]

00:10:10   esoteric naming magic who is a bit of a [TS]

00:10:13   was he's crazy I'll put it that way and [TS]

00:10:16   I think you know that guy in I guess [TS]

00:10:18   this comes more in the second book but [TS]

00:10:20   you know that is the sort of the one [TS]

00:10:22   thing that seems to elude him and I [TS]

00:10:25   think you know the it illuminates a part [TS]

00:10:28   of his character where he is not a very [TS]

00:10:30   he's he's smart but he lacks a bit of [TS]

00:10:33   common sense he's always doing things in [TS]

00:10:35   rushing in he's a bit impetuous and [TS]

00:10:38   sometimes they get him in trouble and i [TS]

00:10:39   think that's that's sort of what i like [TS]

00:10:41   about him is that he is as smart as he [TS]

00:10:43   is he is very often it seems too smart [TS]

00:10:46   for his own good but perhaps that's just [TS]

00:10:49   me [TS]

00:10:50   alright so that was on my list i could [TS]

00:10:52   expound on morning you guys covered the [TS]

00:10:54   basic points anything else [TS]

00:10:56   I let's see what else i didn't like the [TS]

00:10:58   look i don't know i understand all the [TS]

00:11:00   things that I i should say that I did in [TS]

00:11:02   fact enjoy the book was given before I [TS]

00:11:04   like John's got you on his side he sucks [TS]

00:11:07   you into the city you tonight as not too [TS]

00:11:09   hard to turn Scott to the negative side [TS]

00:11:11   it's true I am generally more [TS]

00:11:14   predisposed to not liking something so [TS]

00:11:17   the other thing i did not like is what's [TS]

00:11:19   the the character and Dina Dana whatever [TS]

00:11:22   has the the little love interest i found [TS]

00:11:25   that whole dynamic annoying i don't know [TS]

00:11:27   if you guys do remember but yeah so so i [TS]

00:11:30   guess i'm not entirely crazy because [TS]

00:11:31   that my two of my three pillars of [TS]

00:11:35   things that didn't like about this book [TS]

00:11:36   for one the plot but just when / where [TS]

00:11:38   that it didn't seem like it was going [TS]

00:11:39   anywhere especially since it had those [TS]

00:11:40   like side adventures with the Dragon and [TS]

00:11:43   he's often that town there's the [TS]

00:11:45   University section was like lots of [TS]

00:11:46   interconnected short stories but there [TS]

00:11:48   was no like overall arc and you can even [TS]

00:11:50   see like the beginning of an arc like [TS]

00:11:52   where it's going to go because it's the [TS]

00:11:53   framing stories so far down the road [TS]

00:11:55   from his various adventures [TS]

00:11:57   yeah that you just I can't connect the [TS]

00:11:59   dots yet maybe it's gonna be 20 book [TS]

00:12:00   series so in which case you know when [TS]

00:12:02   it's going to be a three-book series [TS]

00:12:04   will be dead by the time he finishes at [TS]

00:12:05   this right but that's so the character [TS]

00:12:08   is another thing you know that the Mary [TS]

00:12:10   Sue disease that he was that right on [TS]

00:12:12   the head he's good at everything every [TS]

00:12:15   woman he meets loves him [TS]

00:12:16   you know it is flawed yet it's more of [TS]

00:12:19   like it you know its laws that he's too [TS]

00:12:21   smart for his own good but i think that [TS]

00:12:23   that's not a great when you're an [TS]

00:12:24   interview and they say well what's your [TS]

00:12:26   greatest weakness I work too hard [TS]

00:12:28   sometimes I'm just too clever for my own [TS]

00:12:30   good [TS]

00:12:31   yeah yeah but the worst part the part [TS]

00:12:34   that gave me that the worst taste [TS]

00:12:36   throughout the entire book which it [TS]

00:12:38   still bothers me is the treatment of [TS]

00:12:40   women this book should really should [TS]

00:12:42   have a course and you know creative [TS]

00:12:43   writing courses of how not to write [TS]

00:12:45   women because women only exist in this [TS]

00:12:47   book as sexual objects and every time [TS]

00:12:52   they come on the scene they are [TS]

00:12:54   described in terms of their beauty and [TS]

00:12:56   attractiveness to the character and [TS]

00:12:58   that's the only value they add even as [TS]

00:13:00   this den a person or whatever she's [TS]

00:13:03   she's a horrible person there's nothing [TS]

00:13:04   to recommend her there's no reason he [TS]

00:13:06   should be a tractor and anyway but every [TS]

00:13:08   architects fellow-feeling or whatever [TS]

00:13:10   like any any female character Debbie [TS]

00:13:12   that the moneylender anytime they come [TS]

00:13:14   on the screen so to speak it there [TS]

00:13:16   immediately described in terms of how [TS]

00:13:17   attractive they are and very sexual [TS]

00:13:20   innuendo and if it was done in either an [TS]

00:13:23   omniscient narrator or first person from [TS]

00:13:26   the perspective of the young one [TS]

00:13:27   maybe you could excuse that because [TS]

00:13:29   that's like maybe 18 year old Sol have [TS]

00:13:30   AC women you know when you're that age [TS]

00:13:32   or however old you supposed to be but [TS]

00:13:33   it's being told by the older wiser one [TS]

00:13:35   he's the one relaying the tail as I [TS]

00:13:37   can't come up with any sort of rational [TS]

00:13:39   explanation for how horrible women are [TS]

00:13:41   treated in this book and it's just a [TS]

00:13:43   great sonmi and it's like if we can have [TS]

00:13:45   any women characters know they only [TS]

00:13:47   exist as pleasure centers and desire you [TS]

00:13:51   know tiny pinpoints of desire for the [TS]

00:13:54   male characters in the book and that [TS]

00:13:56   more than anything else just like it [TS]

00:13:58   bothers me immensely i don't know why I [TS]

00:14:00   bother maybe it was the same and all the [TS]

00:14:01   other fantasy books i read and i didn't [TS]

00:14:03   notice but I noticed that a lot in this [TS]

00:14:04   one [TS]

00:14:05   well that I mean that'sthat's a I think [TS]

00:14:07   that's very often a criticism of the [TS]

00:14:09   fantasy and science fiction genre in [TS]

00:14:11   general and you know there's obviously [TS]

00:14:13   could probably spend almost entire [TS]

00:14:15   podcast discussing why that's the case [TS]

00:14:17   but we won't dealt too much into scifi [TS]

00:14:20   find it less because sci-fi friends away [TS]

00:14:23   i think it really depends on the [TS]

00:14:24   you-know-what syfy reading but i think [TS]

00:14:26   that in the in the very like sort of [TS]

00:14:29   violence a traditional but like you know [TS]

00:14:31   that's one of the tropes I feel like of [TS]

00:14:33   science fiction and fantasy [TS]

00:14:35   well but then again that's problem [TS]

00:14:36   primarily a male-dominated field i was [TS]

00:14:39   gonna say like the most damning thing I [TS]

00:14:40   can say about the women in this book is [TS]

00:14:41   that talking has better women characters [TS]

00:14:43   he's got like three thousand facebook at [TS]

00:14:46   least his characters like least they [TS]

00:14:49   relate to the world and the other people [TS]

00:14:50   in the book as something other than [TS]

00:14:52   sexual objects they have their own [TS]

00:14:54   motivations their own feelings their own [TS]

00:14:56   you know agendas and every single one of [TS]

00:14:59   them isn't immediately described in [TS]

00:15:01   terms of how they are attracted to or a [TS]

00:15:03   track or you know drawn towards that the [TS]

00:15:05   male characters how the male characters [TS]

00:15:07   drawn to them now that and I don't want [TS]

00:15:10   to go on playing about this book saying [TS]

00:15:11   horrible Derek is obviously i'm reading [TS]

00:15:13   the sequel so it must be something to [TS]

00:15:14   recommend it [TS]

00:15:15   and i think the the set the interest of [TS]

00:15:18   the setting and the fact that the first [TS]

00:15:20   book didn't go anywhere makes me makes [TS]

00:15:22   me want to know where it's going like [TS]

00:15:23   because that they teased you know those [TS]

00:15:24   those evil guys who kill this whole [TS]

00:15:26   troop that if we don't know anything [TS]

00:15:27   about that we spent the whole first book [TS]

00:15:29   trying to study them but wasn't allowed [TS]

00:15:30   in the library for the whole book for a [TS]

00:15:32   name you know bad sitcom reasons if it [TS]

00:15:37   that's another thing with it right there [TS]

00:15:38   there are coincidences books that will [TS]

00:15:39   be clear its situations books will be [TS]

00:15:41   cleared up with just a simple [TS]

00:15:42   explanation but you know the master was [TS]

00:15:43   like nope don't want to hear about it [TS]

00:15:45   don't wanna hear about any of this yet [TS]

00:15:46   he gave youcandl no but I don't hear [TS]

00:15:48   about that all tough luck the rest of [TS]

00:15:49   the book you're not learn anything about [TS]

00:15:50   them so i guess what the way to book to [TS]

00:15:52   learn anything you know it [TS]

00:15:55   yeah so it [TS]

00:15:58   things like that are teased and and that [TS]

00:16:01   keeps me wondering like alright so maybe [TS]

00:16:02   he's got a really good idea about these [TS]

00:16:04   guys maybe the overall story is really [TS]

00:16:05   clever because I've learned so little [TS]

00:16:06   about it that I'm willing to go on so [TS]

00:16:09   i'll read the second book and still [TS]

00:16:11   nothing happens the end of the second [TS]

00:16:12   book i'll probably start to get [TS]

00:16:13   frustrated you will start to get [TS]

00:16:16   frustrated [TS]

00:16:16   yeah i mean the thing is that the fast [TS]

00:16:18   read like all these things that are [TS]

00:16:19   wrong with it [TS]

00:16:20   they are typical the fantasy genre and i [TS]

00:16:22   find that you know it's a fast read and [TS]

00:16:24   you don't have doesn't take too much [TS]

00:16:25   mental energy to read through it and [TS]

00:16:28   people like reading about these sort of [TS]

00:16:29   power fantasy books where the guy's [TS]

00:16:31   wonderful couldn't everything and he is [TS]

00:16:33   opposed by unfair forces of like the [TS]

00:16:35   rich guy picking on the poor guy or he [TS]

00:16:37   always needs money we can all relate to [TS]

00:16:39   that and you know but he's really clever [TS]

00:16:41   and good stuff so he overcomes it you [TS]

00:16:43   know it's it's a easy to digest story [TS]

00:16:46   they could probably made into an [TS]

00:16:47   interesting movie that would be easy to [TS]

00:16:49   digest but it's not it's not sort of an [TS]

00:16:51   adult sophisticate story I feel like [TS]

00:16:54   yeah i mean there there's certainly [TS]

00:16:56   something to be said that in that the [TS]

00:16:58   you know the plot the obstacles that he [TS]

00:17:00   faces are are fairly mundane it seems [TS]

00:17:03   like 4a for fantasy book for especially [TS]

00:17:05   for something would you know that [TS]

00:17:06   implies there is this grand scale I mean [TS]

00:17:09   yes you know there is the issue of his [TS]

00:17:10   family being killed but you know like [TS]

00:17:12   you said a lot of the wedding struggles [TS]

00:17:14   with his is like money problems and [TS]

00:17:16   being harassed by this guy at school [TS]

00:17:18   this is not a chasing that girl who [TS]

00:17:20   write worth chasing well which is none [TS]

00:17:22   of which is necessarily your typical [TS]

00:17:24   like you know fantasy right you know [TS]

00:17:26   they seem a lot more like teenage and of [TS]

00:17:28   course our character [TS]

00:17:29   he's also you know precociously young [TS]

00:17:30   right he's like like 16 or something [TS]

00:17:33   then things mixed in with that they have [TS]

00:17:35   that story that you hear about like that [TS]

00:17:37   the legendary backstory of these people [TS]

00:17:39   in the kings and that's like you know [TS]

00:17:40   that's fantasy book type stuff for he [TS]

00:17:42   talks all about you know that the king [TS]

00:17:45   who goes blind and the various deals [TS]

00:17:46   they made in the origin of these people [TS]

00:17:48   will kill that is just a hundred percent [TS]

00:17:49   hardcore epic fantasy but then you come [TS]

00:17:52   back as like that and it was just a [TS]

00:17:53   story so now i need to try to get some [TS]

00:17:55   more money [TS]

00:17:55   well and that is one of the things i did [TS]

00:17:58   enjoy about the book at least was those [TS]

00:17:59   layering of stories where you know like [TS]

00:18:02   i said we already have this framing [TS]

00:18:03   story in this guy relating a story and [TS]

00:18:05   then inside of that we often have [TS]

00:18:06   another layer of story that sort of [TS]

00:18:08   comes in there and I think you know [TS]

00:18:10   clearly rock this has an interest in [TS]

00:18:11   sort of delving into the lore of this [TS]

00:18:14   world that he's created in a lot of [TS]

00:18:16   times that's you know that's fun and [TS]

00:18:18   interesting you know sort of side trip [TS]

00:18:20   even if it is always tangential to the [TS]

00:18:22   story itself i'm curious i mean is there [TS]

00:18:25   anything in particular that stood out to [TS]

00:18:27   you as you know moments that you did [TS]

00:18:31   really enjoy John McHugh flip this on [TS]

00:18:33   your head is like there anything [TS]

00:18:34   particular tales yeah well yeah I had a [TS]

00:18:36   favorite scene that I should have [TS]

00:18:38   written down was thinking last night [TS]

00:18:40   angel was over [TS]

00:18:41   no i didn't i didn't like that I didn't [TS]

00:18:43   like that bookend thing where they were [TS]

00:18:44   there with a prologue and epilogue or [TS]

00:18:46   like the same except for a couple words [TS]

00:18:47   with little change in perspective I [TS]

00:18:49   don't think he pulled that off was my [TS]

00:18:52   favorite scene I that probably my [TS]

00:18:53   favorite scene was when he's on the [TS]

00:18:55   rooftop with the Loudoun or whatever his [TS]

00:18:56   name is and he's trying to you know get [TS]

00:18:58   them to come on board he tells me to [TS]

00:19:00   jump off the roof and he doesn't cuz i [TS]

00:19:03   got a chuckle out of that just because [TS]

00:19:04   that that's that's an example of why I [TS]

00:19:06   like this book because it it plays on [TS]

00:19:09   the on the conventions in any other [TS]

00:19:11   fantasy book you know he would have [TS]

00:19:12   jumped off and been caught in the air by [TS]

00:19:14   magic approved it's worth or not jumped [TS]

00:19:16   off and I guess what jumps off it like [TS]

00:19:17   breaks his legs or whatever happened to [TS]

00:19:19   my I remember it vaguely but that [TS]

00:19:21   interactions with him tend to not be as [TS]

00:19:26   stereotypical and and it is because that [TS]

00:19:28   situation which he doesn't have all the [TS]

00:19:30   answers I don't know what I still think [TS]

00:19:33   the character is so very Merry situation [TS]

00:19:35   i don't think this counts as a character [TS]

00:19:36   flaw but at least he has genuine [TS]

00:19:38   interactions in a situation where ma or [TS]

00:19:41   whatever saying that [TS]

00:19:42   the dramas were two characters one [TS]

00:19:44   character want something at the end of [TS]

00:19:45   the scene he doesn't get it [TS]

00:19:46   that's pretty much every scene between [TS]

00:19:48   growth and Ellen if I'm mispronouncing [TS]

00:19:50   both of those names so I enjoy all the [TS]

00:19:52   interactions and the roof seen in [TS]

00:19:54   particular with other yes i would have [TS]

00:19:56   said that was among my favorites too i [TS]

00:19:58   think another one of my another one that [TS]

00:20:01   I really enjoyed from the first book is [TS]

00:20:03   the the the first scene where he gets in [TS]

00:20:05   the first service team we have to prove [TS]

00:20:07   himself to be admitted to the University [TS]

00:20:09   any part of what i liked about that was [TS]

00:20:11   that you know yes he's very clever and [TS]

00:20:13   that's that's the scene where it [TS]

00:20:14   demonstrates again that is clever but i [TS]

00:20:16   think one of the other things i kinda [TS]

00:20:17   liked about that was that he also [TS]

00:20:19   there's a whole point made out of the [TS]

00:20:20   fact that he kind of cheats in that he [TS]

00:20:22   sits he sort of sneaks into this place [TS]

00:20:24   and and listen to everybody else's [TS]

00:20:26   questions to see what they're going to [TS]

00:20:28   ask before he does that and I think you [TS]

00:20:30   know to me that speaks to one of the [TS]

00:20:32   things that I that I like about quote [TS]

00:20:34   that is not necessarily just that he [TS]

00:20:35   says you know you so smart and clever [TS]

00:20:37   but he cheats right you know he tries to [TS]

00:20:40   figure out shortcuts and I think it's [TS]

00:20:42   one of those flaws that I that I kind of [TS]

00:20:44   liked about him that's his kobayashi [TS]

00:20:46   brew moment that says that's a street [TS]

00:20:49   urchin thing like that's that's the more [TS]

00:20:51   interesting part of this character [TS]

00:20:52   because he's insufferable when he's with [TS]

00:20:53   his family is like over wonderful [TS]

00:20:55   gypsies were artists and we all love art [TS]

00:20:57   and we're happy and my parents loved me [TS]

00:20:59   in there there you know these they're 20 [TS]

00:21:00   feet tall and towering above me and [TS]

00:21:02   giving me advice about it you know when [TS]

00:21:05   he goes through that experience living [TS]

00:21:06   on your pretty excited when they got [TS]

00:21:07   murdered huh yeah i got those guys are [TS]

00:21:11   dead the murder didn't hit me that much [TS]

00:21:12   because it's like they're just they're [TS]

00:21:15   visible problems characterization every [TS]

00:21:17   characteristic of the main characters [TS]

00:21:18   really cookie cutter like think about [TS]

00:21:19   his friends like sim and whoever the [TS]

00:21:22   friends and they're just there's nothing [TS]

00:21:24   to them they're they're barely [TS]

00:21:25   characters if you have to say what [TS]

00:21:27   distinguishes one of his friends from [TS]

00:21:28   the other and same thing with the girls [TS]

00:21:30   are just you know that this is not a lot [TS]

00:21:33   there in the same was true of his [TS]

00:21:34   parents so I didn't hit me that hard [TS]

00:21:35   when he died because i didn't buy into [TS]

00:21:37   the whole like I've analogous to the [TS]

00:21:39   seem real but when he's down and out and [TS]

00:21:41   as sort of a homeless kid and I go [TS]

00:21:43   through all those troubles and [TS]

00:21:44   everything that adds an aspect of his [TS]

00:21:46   character is more interesting i think we [TS]

00:21:47   should focus more on that if they want [TS]

00:21:50   to like you know enhances character [TS]

00:21:52   flaws and believable way that things [TS]

00:21:54   where he does things that [TS]

00:21:55   you know morally ambiguous it's you get [TS]

00:21:57   ahead and that seemingly doesn't regret [TS]

00:22:00   them you know and he does that he's [TS]

00:22:03   doing that in the second book now tell [TS]

00:22:04   me how to continue to do things that [TS]

00:22:06   aren't particularly heroic or Noble or [TS]

00:22:10   that his parents went to grow but it [TS]

00:22:11   isn't they don't seem to bother amount [TS]

00:22:12   of he's a sociopath or they're just not [TS]

00:22:14   just not very big on introspection you [TS]

00:22:16   know they want my dad think if he knew I [TS]

00:22:18   was cheating to get into the sea he [TS]

00:22:20   raised me so well and honorably or just [TS]

00:22:21   you know all gypsies sheets are Gypsy [TS]

00:22:23   listeners for the stairs at the risk of [TS]

00:22:26   you know making us sound like we [TS]

00:22:30   practiced all totally in the pit of not [TS]

00:22:33   liking things [TS]

00:22:34   well its got diseases or anything you [TS]

00:22:36   particularly that stood out to you that [TS]

00:22:37   you did like I know we talked a little [TS]

00:22:39   bit about what you didn't like well I'm [TS]

00:22:42   i did--like i read the book when it [TS]

00:22:45   first came out so i don't remember any [TS]

00:22:46   particular scenes but I did like the how [TS]

00:22:50   he goes about building his I mean this [TS]

00:22:52   is kind of a term tossed around in [TS]

00:22:54   science fiction and fantasy world [TS]

00:22:56   building right so i think that he does a [TS]

00:22:58   good job of I may not like the [TS]

00:23:00   characters but i think the world that he [TS]

00:23:02   puts them in is very interesting and he [TS]

00:23:05   does he built that world in such a way [TS]

00:23:07   of not really telling us about it my [TS]

00:23:10   kind of having his characters interact [TS]

00:23:11   in it and then you know telling stories [TS]

00:23:14   about the world and setting it up so you [TS]

00:23:15   don't really see much of the world [TS]

00:23:17   because you only see what could both is [TS]

00:23:20   is interacting with but you know there's [TS]

00:23:23   a lot more stuff out there and there are [TS]

00:23:25   kings and there are their stuff [TS]

00:23:27   happening that you don't really see so I [TS]

00:23:29   think that it makes the setting very [TS]

00:23:31   interesting to me i think that that is [TS]

00:23:33   you know and traditionally that's a big [TS]

00:23:35   part of fantasy right is world-building [TS]

00:23:36   that's why many of us read these these [TS]

00:23:39   fantasy books to sort of see what on [TS]

00:23:41   what other worlds that these writers can [TS]

00:23:43   put together [TS]

00:23:44   I you know I think that there's a lot I [TS]

00:23:48   mean despite John's misgivings I think [TS]

00:23:50   our are you know some of them are very [TS]

00:23:52   accurate i think there are there are [TS]

00:23:53   definitely shortcomings in the book and [TS]

00:23:55   I mean I'm going to get the Bible slacks [TS]

00:23:57   and seduces first book but you know you [TS]

00:23:59   know there's definitely room for [TS]

00:24:00   improvement and you know it's one of the [TS]

00:24:04   things I've been looking forward to [TS]

00:24:05   reading the second book for awhile i [TS]

00:24:06   came across this book first [TS]

00:24:08   actually the year it came out i think [TS]

00:24:10   because it was the onion AV club's like [TS]

00:24:14   Book of the Year like the best book they [TS]

00:24:16   read in 2007 see never how could that be [TS]

00:24:19   possible that's that's probably a lot of [TS]

00:24:21   what's happening here is the overhyping [TS]

00:24:22   like I read it after so many people that [TS]

00:24:24   said so many things about it so I was [TS]

00:24:26   really expecting something special and [TS]

00:24:27   you know for all the good things like if [TS]

00:24:30   I'd come in unknown on and i probably [TS]

00:24:31   would have been up on those bugs i [TS]

00:24:33   thought this book was gonna be another [TS]

00:24:34   garbage fantasy but actually had some [TS]

00:24:36   interesting things instead i'm coming [TS]

00:24:37   into it as this is the best fantasy book [TS]

00:24:40   in the past 10 years and every did say [TS]

00:24:41   no it's not [TS]

00:24:43   well i was thinking about that as I you [TS]

00:24:45   know we're prepared for this podcast I'm [TS]

00:24:47   i sat in a quiet room and just pondered [TS]

00:24:49   the book as I often do and I after I [TS]

00:24:52   finished reading it I thought to myself [TS]

00:24:54   I remember thinking very clearly this is [TS]

00:24:56   unlike any fantasy book i have ever read [TS]

00:24:58   you think it's unlike unlevel that's [TS]

00:25:01   what I after i read it that's what I [TS]

00:25:03   thought but then through the years and [TS]

00:25:05   thinking about what happened in the book [TS]

00:25:06   I thought to myself this is pretty much [TS]

00:25:09   what fantasy books are starting to shine [TS]

00:25:12   think about because I mean the story is [TS]

00:25:14   very traditional right you know it's a [TS]

00:25:17   guy who overcomes lot of challenges and [TS]

00:25:19   becomes this legend but i think the [TS]

00:25:22   interesting part of it and i don't know [TS]

00:25:24   if this happens in the first book but so [TS]

00:25:26   it definitely in the second book he kind [TS]

00:25:28   of in the the book and a story he [TS]

00:25:32   relates how he kind of he himself during [TS]

00:25:36   when he was a kid created these legends [TS]

00:25:38   about himself that you then here later [TS]

00:25:40   on so like you know he started spreading [TS]

00:25:42   the rumors about you know the various [TS]

00:25:44   powers that he had that he didn't really [TS]

00:25:45   have but he just kind of planted those [TS]

00:25:48   stories and well yea yea that there's a [TS]

00:25:50   really good scene in the first book that [TS]

00:25:52   I quite liked where's the he gets [TS]

00:25:54   punished for doing something at the [TS]

00:25:55   University and he gets whipped and he [TS]

00:25:58   makes a point of taking this you know [TS]

00:26:01   drug or whatever that will prevent him [TS]

00:26:03   from bleeding so he doesn't you know it [TS]

00:26:07   has included so essentially is a point [TS]

00:26:09   of not showing weakness is the way that [TS]

00:26:10   he sees it and so that sort of urns in [TS]

00:26:13   this code both the Bloodless about that [TS]

00:26:16   that's you know then becomes a larger [TS]

00:26:19   part of this legend like all you know is [TS]

00:26:20   new here [TS]

00:26:21   that he doesn't he doesn't bleed and [TS]

00:26:23   that's kinda one of the fun parts of [TS]

00:26:25   this is that in this framing story he's [TS]

00:26:27   an innkeeper having sort of resigned [TS]

00:26:29   from this life of heroism and yet all [TS]

00:26:32   the people come into the in know the [TS]

00:26:34   legendary figure they don't know that [TS]

00:26:36   that the innkeeper is the legendary [TS]

00:26:38   figure but they'll be telling stories [TS]

00:26:40   about him and you'll see the as the [TS]

00:26:41   story progresses as the story that we [TS]

00:26:43   hear from clothes progresses you'll [TS]

00:26:45   start to recognize like the stories that [TS]

00:26:48   the the people in the indoor telling [TS]

00:26:50   about clothes this legendary figure you [TS]

00:26:53   start to see the seeds of that in the [TS]

00:26:54   story that that were sort of getting the [TS]

00:26:56   real story but they're totally blown out [TS]

00:26:58   of proportion which is I think one of [TS]

00:26:59   the things I liked about it like there's [TS]

00:27:01   if there's definitely a strong element [TS]

00:27:03   of like what storytelling is and and [TS]

00:27:06   making you know what exactly a legend is [TS]

00:27:09   right and i think that was my my [TS]

00:27:11   favorite part of the book and that's [TS]

00:27:13   what I think made it so unique because [TS]

00:27:15   you know the story is pretty much a [TS]

00:27:17   fantasy story the magic system is [TS]

00:27:20   different than a lot of other stuff but [TS]

00:27:21   I mean the overall arc in the characters [TS]

00:27:23   kind of there's nothing too [TS]

00:27:25   extraordinary about them or i should say [TS]

00:27:28   nothing to stand out about them but i [TS]

00:27:30   think that the whole like like Dan said [TS]

00:27:32   the whole you know telling a story about [TS]

00:27:33   storytelling is is interesting i started [TS]

00:27:37   off two minds on the framing saying [TS]

00:27:39   because on the one hand i almost think [TS]

00:27:41   especially in the first book that if the [TS]

00:27:43   series that started straight where I was [TS]

00:27:45   third pressure on mission narrator no [TS]

00:27:48   framing story start with the kid who's a [TS]

00:27:50   gypsy and just gone through the story in [TS]

00:27:53   the linear fashion like that and then [TS]

00:27:55   ended i guess in the same spot for after [TS]

00:27:57   finding out nothing new about these [TS]

00:27:59   people and saving in town from a dragon [TS]

00:28:01   you know you'd be like it would would [TS]

00:28:03   read more like like the first harry [TS]

00:28:05   potter book cord where it's like [TS]

00:28:07   discovering the world and what you might [TS]

00:28:10   do in it and a little bit of adventure [TS]

00:28:13   and stuff like that but nothing that big [TS]

00:28:14   apple's book because I thought there was [TS]

00:28:17   so little of the framing story it was [TS]

00:28:18   just it was like almost like a [TS]

00:28:20   distraction I could come back to and [TS]

00:28:21   have that argument between a vast and [TS]

00:28:23   the chronicler and like I felt like that [TS]

00:28:25   was just wasting time but on the other [TS]

00:28:26   hand since the frame story is there and [TS]

00:28:28   we know he ends up its asset innkeeper [TS]

00:28:30   dude i hope that in the later books they [TS]

00:28:33   don't [TS]

00:28:34   and maybe in a second most men don't [TS]

00:28:35   pull punches and it's not just that he [TS]

00:28:37   retired from heroism but that he ended [TS]

00:28:40   up doing some really bad things because [TS]

00:28:43   that will add a lot of interest to the [TS]

00:28:44   character I think I don't want to see [TS]

00:28:46   like that he did heroic stuffin even [TS]

00:28:48   know didn't turn out the way he wanted [TS]

00:28:49   he always had the best intentions I want [TS]

00:28:51   to see him you know either become mad [TS]

00:28:53   with power or make some really bad moves [TS]

00:28:56   or do something out of jealousy or just [TS]

00:28:57   basically mess things opportunity [TS]

00:28:59   already you know imply that has caused [TS]

00:29:01   this big war that sort of in the [TS]

00:29:02   background or whatever I want to see him [TS]

00:29:03   do bad things I'm sort of downfall [TS]

00:29:06   you know I don't want to see him try to [TS]

00:29:08   be the earth throughout the whole thing [TS]

00:29:09   just like he tries to be in the first [TS]

00:29:11   book and just like Oh through bed [TS]

00:29:12   coincidences and mean people doing mean [TS]

00:29:14   things to me [TS]

00:29:16   things didn't turn out that well I want [TS]

00:29:18   to see some serious you know that [TS]

00:29:21   emotional wrenching problems happen to [TS]

00:29:24   him and the frame started kind of [TS]

00:29:26   promises that so I have my fingers [TS]

00:29:27   crossed CC when I think that's what the [TS]

00:29:29   the framing story really kind of [TS]

00:29:31   separates and elevates this book from [TS]

00:29:34   the heart which I I despise harry potter [TS]

00:29:36   so I never read them always in the [TS]

00:29:39   movies but i haven't read them for I was [TS]

00:29:41   the I was the only one on the harry [TS]

00:29:42   potter podcast here is that whatever you [TS]

00:29:45   and I i don't i don't care for it so i [TS]

00:29:47   have only read the first one everyone [TS]

00:29:49   says oh they get so much better and if I [TS]

00:29:50   don't like the first one I'm not reading [TS]

00:29:52   6 more [TS]

00:29:52   I'm sorry but anyway so i think that [TS]

00:29:54   that framing story really kind of it may [TS]

00:29:57   be a trick like a writer trick but I [TS]

00:29:59   don't think it's going to get really [TS]

00:30:00   elevates the whole thing and because you [TS]

00:30:03   know how the story is going to end it [TS]

00:30:05   really makes the story which is kind of [TS]

00:30:08   running the middle story much more [TS]

00:30:10   interesting for sure like what how does [TS]

00:30:11   he get from from this little kid who you [TS]

00:30:14   know is great and everything to this [TS]

00:30:16   innkeeper who is kind of you know [TS]

00:30:17   seemingly washed up or is he hiding out [TS]

00:30:20   or what's going on with it and you don't [TS]

00:30:22   find out he's so cautious about laying [TS]

00:30:24   out details I worry about Dark Tower [TS]

00:30:27   disease the first Dark Tower had a [TS]

00:30:29   little bit of that to where it's really [TS]

00:30:30   interesting word you want a world and [TS]

00:30:32   you want to know more about it but they [TS]

00:30:33   tell you almost nothing so it's a very [TS]

00:30:36   removed it's a big big tease and it [TS]

00:30:39   leaves you wanting more but then then [TS]

00:30:40   you've got to pay off eventually you [TS]

00:30:42   know in the seven books you have to tell [TS]

00:30:44   something about this world and that's [TS]

00:30:45   the harder part so in the first one it [TS]

00:30:46   is [TS]

00:30:47   have a little bit easier to say we're [TS]

00:30:49   gonna have this framing story and we [TS]

00:30:50   know something happens to my hands up [TS]

00:30:51   here but we're not even going to tell [TS]

00:30:53   you what we're not even gonna tell you [TS]

00:30:54   whether he's like he's like you don't [TS]

00:30:56   know if he's hiding because people are [TS]

00:30:57   trying to do something bad to do [TS]

00:30:59   something good did he just give up we [TS]

00:31:01   don't know what happened to him only [TS]

00:31:02   thing we know is that he lives through [TS]

00:31:04   well we get the impression from the end [TS]

00:31:07   of the first the end of the frame store [TS]

00:31:10   from the first book that he can't do [TS]

00:31:12   magic anymore but yeah that's exactly [TS]

00:31:15   the body because he's depressed [TS]

00:31:17   I hope it's because you can ever imagine [TS]

00:31:19   he was lying the whole time and [TS]

00:31:20   unreliable narrator well hey I mean [TS]

00:31:23   that's that might be you know that would [TS]

00:31:25   that would be arguably very [TS]

00:31:27   disappointing in some ways but also very [TS]

00:31:28   interesting another way because we do [TS]

00:31:30   get this whole thing through his [TS]

00:31:31   perspective like there's and clearly [TS]

00:31:33   he's a good storyteller [TS]

00:31:34   so you know what if he is he claims he [TS]

00:31:37   is not you know embellishing it but what [TS]

00:31:39   if he was you know like that would be an [TS]

00:31:40   interesting understand this in this [TS]

00:31:43   world i mean if in the University magic [TS]

00:31:45   is kind of commonplace but once you [TS]

00:31:46   leave even like I looks it feels like [TS]

00:31:48   you walk like three steps from the [TS]

00:31:50   University and everyone has never heard [TS]

00:31:52   of magic so if you can accuse you of [TS]

00:31:54   consorting with demons 10 letters and I [TS]

00:31:56   liked how they mix it with technology [TS]

00:31:58   because like it's it is magic and then [TS]

00:32:00   there's this other thing which is their [TS]

00:32:02   equivalent of technology and and people [TS]

00:32:05   haven't heard of it because they're you [TS]

00:32:06   know the same way farmers have been her [TS]

00:32:07   transistor radios when it first appeared [TS]

00:32:09   but like the second book now this is a [TS]

00:32:11   spoiler but someone's gotta love a [TS]

00:32:12   refrigerator [TS]

00:32:13   basically it's made from these two [TS]

00:32:15   little magic more or less strips of [TS]

00:32:19   metal but it's just a refrigerator and [TS]

00:32:21   it's it's just as magical to him as as a [TS]

00:32:24   real fridge would be and that's like [TS]

00:32:26   that's that's the one side of the [TS]

00:32:28   technology that's it's boring like [TS]

00:32:30   people like all you got one of those [TS]

00:32:31   magic refrigerated likes not you know [TS]

00:32:33   it's not that interesting vs naming the [TS]

00:32:35   wind John where you were you were you [TS]

00:32:37   disappointed when it turned out he was [TS]

00:32:39   also you know like an excellent fridge [TS]

00:32:41   repair man at a certain point you just [TS]

00:32:43   assume it's going to be good at [TS]

00:32:44   everything he is going to the University [TS]

00:32:46   but it may seem so easy just right stuff [TS]

00:32:49   on little pieces yeah but that's totally [TS]

00:32:51   different than the that that's there and [TS]

00:32:54   that has like you know you get three [TS]

00:32:55   steps outside no one's even heard that [TS]

00:32:56   is like sympathy lights wow it's magic [TS]

00:32:58   but the real magic is still as far as [TS]

00:33:01   far along as I am in the second book [TS]

00:33:03   still very mysterious and very powerful [TS]

00:33:04   and very scary even within the [TS]

00:33:06   university it's not like Harry Potter [TS]

00:33:07   weather like [TS]

00:33:08   now kids raised you want we're going to [TS]

00:33:10   learn now even within the university [TS]

00:33:12   it's kind of hard corn and that's why [TS]

00:33:13   everyone respect the crazy professor guy [TS]

00:33:15   because he's the one guy who's the [TS]

00:33:17   professor of that real magic stuff and [TS]

00:33:19   the other guys it more like a scientist [TS]

00:33:21   my professors in actual University who [TS]

00:33:23   do one respects just just like an actual [TS]

00:33:27   university exactly where that I can hit [TS]

00:33:29   someone's got at once killings got that [TS]

00:33:31   shop for people are building things like [TS]

00:33:33   woodshop class is dangerous chemicals [TS]

00:33:35   it's basically science without having to [TS]

00:33:37   worry about it being science that's true [TS]

00:33:39   it's much more you know work a day [TS]

00:33:41   metric is this very interested [TS]

00:33:43   the magic of engineering yeah and and I [TS]

00:33:45   think that's my favorite part of the [TS]

00:33:46   whole thing is that split between [TS]

00:33:48   technology magic and magic magic and [TS]

00:33:51   especially since the stories they tell [TS]

00:33:53   of like long ago and the people who are [TS]

00:33:55   demons and the deals they make and the [TS]

00:33:57   magic magic like even within this world [TS]

00:34:00   with this kind of magic technology is [TS]

00:34:02   creeping up they still have these [TS]

00:34:02   amazing tales of when there was real [TS]

00:34:04   magic let me tell you kids and it wasn't [TS]

00:34:06   this stuff for we write little ruins on [TS]

00:34:09   pieces of metal make it hot no let me [TS]

00:34:10   tell you it was real magic and the few [TS]

00:34:13   hints of that I get with him calling the [TS]

00:34:15   wind and the let that legend that whole [TS]

00:34:17   thing I think ties the first book [TS]

00:34:18   together because lord knows the plot [TS]

00:34:20   doesn't tied together in fact that it's [TS]

00:34:22   the fact that it's called the name of [TS]

00:34:23   the wind and the real magic is is sort [TS]

00:34:26   of going to be at the heart of his [TS]

00:34:28   journey to power and that he you know [TS]

00:34:30   here is about in the beginning and does [TS]

00:34:32   it at the end that ties it together and [TS]

00:34:34   makes it sort of a book for me [TS]

00:34:36   well then and there are a lot of things [TS]

00:34:38   that are hinted at and you know I kind [TS]

00:34:39   of I don't know I i find myself a little [TS]

00:34:43   surprise I know Scotty much as before [TS]

00:34:44   that it's you know sort of envision that [TS]

00:34:47   say peers as a three-book series but it [TS]

00:34:50   seems like and again I'm only halfway [TS]

00:34:52   through the second book seems like [TS]

00:34:53   there's a lot more material in here that [TS]

00:34:55   then that's gonna fit in three books [TS]

00:34:57   right yeah i mean i finished the the [TS]

00:34:59   second book and I don't I if the third [TS]

00:35:01   book is going to be maybe forty eight [TS]

00:35:03   hundred pages long [TS]

00:35:04   maybe I don't know because there's a lot [TS]

00:35:05   of other words facing right that's like [TS]

00:35:07   the first one I said I kept reading and [TS]

00:35:09   reading gone dude you're not gonna [TS]

00:35:10   finish let me tell you like he's using [TS]

00:35:12   you're not going to finish it at the [TS]

00:35:13   University what's gonna happen is you [TS]

00:35:15   can discover anything about these people [TS]

00:35:16   his whole mission of the first ones i [TS]

00:35:17   gotta find out about these people will [TS]

00:35:18   kill my parents [TS]

00:35:19   you don't have enough pages left dude [TS]

00:35:21   you're not gonna find anything out so i [TS]

00:35:22   guess you chase after dragon for a while [TS]

00:35:24   addressing dragon and then we'll end the [TS]

00:35:26   book The End call the wind en su but I i [TS]

00:35:31   have i have trouble following like the [TS]

00:35:33   chronology so i read a blog post about [TS]

00:35:35   this where someone said that in the the [TS]

00:35:37   innkeep like in his innkeeper in the the [TS]

00:35:39   bookend thing they think he's like 30 [TS]

00:35:42   years old and I imagine too much older [TS]

00:35:44   than that I don't need and I thought it [TS]

00:35:45   was like 60 yeah I think he's now I [TS]

00:35:48   think I mean that they're kind of big [TS]

00:35:49   about it you know that but people come [TS]

00:35:52   into the inner kind of vague about a [TS]

00:35:53   little one of them doesn't you know I [TS]

00:35:55   lose some points to him being can't be [TS]

00:35:58   that old you know basically I mean of [TS]

00:35:59   course the story we're getting from him [TS]

00:36:00   is he's like 16 and so you know by that [TS]

00:36:04   point I guess you know 30 might be [TS]

00:36:05   really old and fantasy world where four [TS]

00:36:07   people seem to die pretty on your way to [TS]

00:36:09   get noticed that he walked like an old [TS]

00:36:11   man but looks like a young man like he [TS]

00:36:12   moves like one of the comments one of [TS]

00:36:14   the people who have the first or second [TS]

00:36:15   book was that you move like an old man [TS]

00:36:17   but you look like a young man and then [TS]

00:36:18   you don't have life expectancy was 40 [TS]

00:36:20   maybe he is getting on in years I i [TS]

00:36:22   don't think the time gap is that [TS]

00:36:24   important but it's kind of like this [TS]

00:36:25   bothers me about Star Wars a little bit [TS]

00:36:27   too and that within a single generation [TS]

00:36:28   people like Jedi who is that and you [TS]

00:36:31   know just previously 10 years ago there [TS]

00:36:33   are swarming all over every planet solve [TS]

00:36:35   everybody's problems like I never heard [TS]

00:36:36   a Jedi don't believe in the force was [TS]

00:36:38   ever you know you believe in the force [TS]

00:36:40   of their Jedi all over the place just 10 [TS]

00:36:42   years ago you know people don't forget [TS]

00:36:44   that soon so if this guy did all these [TS]

00:36:45   amazing exploits and cause all these big [TS]

00:36:47   problems in like the past five or ten [TS]

00:36:49   years [TS]

00:36:50   well yeah I mean you picture it if [TS]

00:36:52   you're picturing him as a legend in [TS]

00:36:54   terms of like you know shrouded in the [TS]

00:36:56   mists of time or whatever there's [TS]

00:36:57   definitely seems like there needs to be [TS]

00:36:59   time for that to sink in [TS]

00:37:01   unless you just a legend in this one [TS]

00:37:02   little town plus the university town [TS]

00:37:03   legend in his own mind that that's the [TS]

00:37:07   stuff stuff to work out especially since [TS]

00:37:09   this guy seems to suggest pages come out [TS]

00:37:11   of him but he doesn't make progress [TS]

00:37:12   maybe group does not planted that well [TS]

00:37:15   and he's gonna I don't know if you have [TS]

00:37:17   the time lines all worked out but i [TS]

00:37:19   would think after working on the first [TS]

00:37:20   book for seven years or something he [TS]

00:37:22   should take the time to do a little time [TS]

00:37:24   line chart and figure out okay [TS]

00:37:26   he's this old this point I gotta get do [TS]

00:37:27   all these events happened to happen [TS]

00:37:29   between here and now it doesn't make [TS]

00:37:30   sense for the townspeople like not to [TS]

00:37:32   wreck another to have photography and [TS]

00:37:33   stuff but he's a guy with the red hair [TS]

00:37:35   and I don't know that if it seems like [TS]

00:37:39   hiding by weight and second red hair [TS]

00:37:43   didn't like dryer and put on the glasses [TS]

00:37:44   and it's like you know Superman where [TS]

00:37:46   did you go this just this guy here with [TS]

00:37:48   glasses well and there's actually [TS]

00:37:49   there's a there's a funny scene in the [TS]

00:37:52   second book where he tries to convince [TS]

00:37:53   one of the one of the NTSA i just got [TS]

00:37:56   through that scene [TS]

00:37:57   yeah and I felt like it was not possible [TS]

00:37:59   that he couldn't convince them of that [TS]

00:38:00   but I mean I don't know I i agree [TS]

00:38:03   because I think there's something II and [TS]

00:38:05   you know maybe that's still to be borne [TS]

00:38:06   out by by the rest of the story but i [TS]

00:38:08   think there is something like you know [TS]

00:38:09   if somebody walks up to you and tells [TS]

00:38:11   them tells you that they're like Merlin [TS]

00:38:13   or whatever like it you know even if [TS]

00:38:14   they got a long white beard and they [TS]

00:38:16   seem to look like you know wizard you [TS]

00:38:18   probably going to be a little bit [TS]

00:38:20   skeptical i met Merlin just the other [TS]

00:38:23   day and let me tell you meet a lot of [TS]

00:38:25   interesting people until they did you [TS]

00:38:26   tell you it was magic everywhere but [TS]

00:38:29   these people believe in magic though [TS]

00:38:30   it's not the same as Maryland it would [TS]

00:38:32   be like someone who looks just like [TS]

00:38:33   Robert Downey jr. but looked a little [TS]

00:38:35   bit scruffy here came up to you and said [TS]

00:38:37   no seriously i'm robert downey jr and [TS]

00:38:39   you like get out of here and then you [TS]

00:38:40   look at him close and you feel like yeah [TS]

00:38:42   I guess you want well and then I think [TS]

00:38:44   there is some question of the depth like [TS]

00:38:46   the definition of the world of the [TS]

00:38:48   framing story right because there is [TS]

00:38:50   there is the there's that encounter at [TS]

00:38:53   the end of the book where there's this [TS]

00:38:54   guy is basically like a demon possesses [TS]

00:38:57   some guy and patron you know comes into [TS]

00:39:00   the inn [TS]

00:39:00   and they're all trying to stop him but [TS]

00:39:02   none of them quite believe that it is in [TS]

00:39:04   fact a demon until after they gave you [TS]

00:39:07   know tried to kill it in several ways [TS]

00:39:08   and have failed [TS]

00:39:10   I mean I think it's in there is a [TS]

00:39:12   suggestion that that that is uncommon [TS]

00:39:14   but you're right that there's there's we [TS]

00:39:17   don't necessarily have a clear picture [TS]

00:39:18   of how the world in that in that future [TS]

00:39:20   or in presence i guess from the framing [TS]

00:39:23   story like how commonplace all these [TS]

00:39:25   things are and then they are kind of in [TS]

00:39:27   a backwater town or even though they [TS]

00:39:29   they talk about the legend stuff like [TS]

00:39:31   they're not sophisticated people the [TS]

00:39:33   chronicler is more of a sophisticated [TS]

00:39:34   person and is you know and it's very [TS]

00:39:36   friend of the two of them are more [TS]

00:39:39   worldly and know about these things with [TS]

00:39:41   the town spoke just seemed to not know [TS]

00:39:43   about anything [TS]

00:39:43   another thing I liked about the the [TS]

00:39:45   technology angles that the demons you [TS]

00:39:47   kill them with iron some sort of [TS]

00:39:49   allegory about technology and systems [TS]

00:39:51   and superstition or maybe just reading [TS]

00:39:52   too much into it well that's that's a [TS]

00:39:54   that's a classic it's a classic sort of [TS]

00:39:56   truck that goes back i think even to [TS]

00:39:57   fairy tales cold iron is usually [TS]

00:40:01   considered I think Shakespeare lose that [TS]

00:40:03   like there's a there's a scene in like [TS]

00:40:05   midsummer night's dream or something I [TS]

00:40:06   think so nice piece of Lord though they [TS]

00:40:08   had good scenes without like strapping [TS]

00:40:09   him to the big iron wheel and putting [TS]

00:40:11   the pit and everything all that stuff [TS]

00:40:12   would be good on film I feel like yeah i [TS]

00:40:14   mean would you make a movie out of this [TS]

00:40:15   it seems like it would be it seems like [TS]

00:40:17   it wouldn't work right it wouldn't work [TS]

00:40:19   with some seams in it work like that the [TS]

00:40:20   whole at the backstory scene would be [TS]

00:40:22   kind of like the backstory seen in and [TS]

00:40:24   fellowship of the ring without telling [TS]

00:40:26   the story about the the original battle [TS]

00:40:28   with everything was cut off [TS]

00:40:29   star-spangled learn everything that that [TS]

00:40:30   little backstory segment that story they [TS]

00:40:32   tell about almost the legends and stuff [TS]

00:40:35   would fit in that style and the scene [TS]

00:40:36   with a demon being strapped to an iron [TS]

00:40:38   wheel and speaking in tongues and trying [TS]

00:40:40   to convince you to lighten free that's [TS]

00:40:41   that's that's triple a cinema there but [TS]

00:40:43   then everything else around that you're [TS]

00:40:45   like I don't make a movie out of this [TS]

00:40:46   weekend it's not your traditional is [TS]

00:40:49   definitely not your to structured like [TS]

00:40:50   your traditional playa the movie would [TS]

00:40:52   end of people like what wait what [TS]

00:40:54   happened and then the magic isn't that [TS]

00:40:57   show you so I mean it's not like he's [TS]

00:40:59   yeah people don't want it like that work [TS]

00:41:00   about and definitely works well in a [TS]

00:41:02   book all the explanations of the magic [TS]

00:41:03   and everything if you're kind of a geek [TS]

00:41:04   or a science geek or whatever you [TS]

00:41:06   it's like a different world system you [TS]

00:41:08   but i like reading about that it's a [TS]

00:41:09   little bit tiresome reading about it a [TS]

00:41:11   second time in the second book but [TS]

00:41:13   that's a different [TS]

00:41:13   podcast we can discuss that how do you [TS]

00:41:16   know that it wouldn't be so interesting [TS]

00:41:18   to see him you know crafting a sympathy [TS]

00:41:20   lab been explaining how it works i would [TS]

00:41:22   watch that sounds riveting I i would [TS]

00:41:25   watch it to it does sound interesting [TS]

00:41:26   but for most people not ask myself my [TS]

00:41:29   favorite parts of the book one is in the [TS]

00:41:31   lab and explain the principles and and [TS]

00:41:33   demonstrating my love that stuff not to [TS]

00:41:37   interfere too much of the RF field but i [TS]

00:41:40   was curious [TS]

00:41:41   John uses only earlier about like you [TS]

00:41:43   know this wasn't this wasn't you the [TS]

00:41:45   best fantasy book of the past decade i'm [TS]

00:41:46   curious if there's something in [TS]

00:41:47   particular that stands out to you that [TS]

00:41:49   was that you felt like pick up the slack [TS]

00:41:51   and places where this was lacking yeah [TS]

00:41:53   i've barely read fantasy books now so [TS]

00:41:56   i'll just surmising that there had to be [TS]

00:41:58   a better book mostly what what we think [TS]

00:42:01   of it because yeah I that's why can't be [TS]

00:42:03   another book episodes because I don't [TS]

00:42:05   read that much and what I do read is [TS]

00:42:07   like stuck in this Stephen King year's [TS]

00:42:09   best science fiction ghetto have you [TS]

00:42:12   read have you read george RR martin song [TS]

00:42:14   of ice and fire [TS]

00:42:15   you know I haven't haven't read any of [TS]

00:42:16   his books alright i'll probably come up [TS]

00:42:18   in a future podcast since the TV show is [TS]

00:42:21   coming out next month i did I can give [TS]

00:42:23   an example are really you know like [TS]

00:42:24   fantasy books that are better than this [TS]

00:42:26   that had been in my lifetime obviously [TS]

00:42:28   looking at the lord of the rings out [TS]

00:42:30   there is ridiculous but obviously you [TS]

00:42:31   know that's that's my favorite fantasy [TS]

00:42:33   book of all time that's a whole other [TS]

00:42:34   category but not a big such a big [TS]

00:42:37   Stephen can King fan his one fantasy [TS]

00:42:40   book I thought eyes of the dragon was a [TS]

00:42:42   great example of why people buy the [TS]

00:42:45   numbers straightforward fantasy that had [TS]

00:42:49   lots of interesting things to recommend [TS]

00:42:51   like it wasn't amazing and fantastic and [TS]

00:42:53   transcendent but it was it was a little [TS]

00:42:55   bit paint by the numbers but i really [TS]

00:42:58   like that I thought it was at and the [TS]

00:43:00   ears a nose was not typical Stephen King [TS]

00:43:02   you can redo a kid or whatever I always [TS]

00:43:04   look to that as my sort of benchmark for [TS]

00:43:06   top-quality not not amazing but not bad [TS]

00:43:12   fantasy and I judge all the fantasy [TS]

00:43:14   books by you know is it better or worse [TS]

00:43:15   than eyes of the dragon and in every [TS]

00:43:17   regarding this is worse than I the [TS]

00:43:19   dragon almost every regard but better in [TS]

00:43:21   those highlight aspects of like had a [TS]

00:43:24   better world more interesting [TS]

00:43:26   ideas about the epic story and you know [TS]

00:43:29   it's a much bigger and much bigger story [TS]

00:43:31   that has yet to be told [TS]

00:43:33   ok how he's got well i will admit that [TS]

00:43:36   when i was in high school I kind of [TS]

00:43:39   burnt out on fantasy books i read a [TS]

00:43:41   whole bunch of pretty crappy fantasy [TS]

00:43:43   books like a lot of them and then I [TS]

00:43:45   stopped reading fantasy because I was [TS]

00:43:46   sick of it it's always the same thing [TS]

00:43:48   you know there's some extraordinary [TS]

00:43:49   person in need to find something and you [TS]

00:43:52   know sleigh and evil [TS]

00:43:54   so this book actually has been at these [TS]

00:43:56   two books i think the best fantasy books [TS]

00:43:58   i read in the last few years of course I [TS]

00:44:02   haven't read much fantasy so I'm not a [TS]

00:44:04   good judge of the best science fiction [TS]

00:44:06   best fantasy the last year's fair enough [TS]

00:44:09   about yourself down are you a big [TS]

00:44:11   fantasy person I I kind of like you I [TS]

00:44:13   like I read a lot of it i mean i think [TS]

00:44:15   the thing that killed a lot of my [TS]

00:44:16   fantasy interest was a robert jordan [TS]

00:44:17   personally personally responsible for [TS]

00:44:20   killing much my fantasy interest which [TS]

00:44:21   books that i think i read the first six [TS]

00:44:23   maybe seven books in that series and [TS]

00:44:25   that i read up to the point like where i [TS]

00:44:27   think i was in high school and I read up [TS]

00:44:29   to the point where like he had written [TS]

00:44:31   at that time and was like well yeah that [TS]

00:44:33   was pretty good [TS]

00:44:34   like you know although i'll read the [TS]

00:44:36   next book when it comes out and then the [TS]

00:44:37   next book came out like years later and [TS]

00:44:39   i was like i don't remember a thing that [TS]

00:44:41   happened in there and I become sort of [TS]

00:44:43   disenchanted with it in the meanwhile I [TS]

00:44:45   was like I'm never going to reread it to [TS]

00:44:46   to figure out what happened and then i [TS]

00:44:48   would read some you know care criticism [TS]

00:44:50   of it from other people like it you know [TS]

00:44:51   that's another good example [TS]

00:44:54   well you know the female characters [TS]

00:44:56   being locally sort of two-dimensional [TS]

00:44:59   and they're just for the that the men's [TS]

00:45:01   interest in them and I think you know [TS]

00:45:03   that sort of run home at that point [TS]

00:45:04   after i was at more of a distance and [TS]

00:45:07   and that sort of held me off for a while [TS]

00:45:09   i've come across a couple fancy books in [TS]

00:45:11   the past years that I really liked one [TS]

00:45:12   of them was this one at least before I [TS]

00:45:14   start talking job got it John has ruined [TS]

00:45:17   it for everyone but the other ones being [TS]

00:45:20   I have enjoyed George RR Martin's song [TS]

00:45:22   of ice and fire to lift up until the [TS]

00:45:24   point where is and there's a I guess the [TS]

00:45:26   next book is due out in the summer and [TS]

00:45:28   I've read to actually read the first [TS]

00:45:30   three books in that series twice because [TS]

00:45:31   i read them again when the fourth book [TS]

00:45:33   came out and they're very good i hope he [TS]

00:45:35   doesn't fall into the robert jordan trap [TS]

00:45:37   of sort of [TS]

00:45:38   spinning this story out forever and that [TS]

00:45:40   he has a good ending point because [TS]

00:45:42   there's some really good stuff in there [TS]

00:45:43   it's a very brutal you know series of [TS]

00:45:46   books it's got a lot of stuff that [TS]

00:45:47   focuses on things more like political [TS]

00:45:49   intrigue there's not a lot of magic or [TS]

00:45:51   other worldliness and so it makes it [TS]

00:45:53   that much more interesting when that [TS]

00:45:54   comes up that's true i had forgotten [TS]

00:45:56   about Jordan I will second that and then [TS]

00:46:00   the other book which i came across [TS]

00:46:01   roughly the same time i came across the [TS]

00:46:03   name of the wind is a book called the [TS]

00:46:04   lies of locke lamora which has some [TS]

00:46:08   things that are very similar to the name [TS]

00:46:11   of the wind especially in that you're [TS]

00:46:13   the sort of the main character is this [TS]

00:46:14   very clever fellow he's a thief though [TS]

00:46:17   and this is this book is is it's very [TS]

00:46:20   different in some ways it's a lot darker [TS]

00:46:22   the end of that book is very dark like a [TS]

00:46:26   John John start talking about like I [TS]

00:46:27   wanted to see like the actual meaningful [TS]

00:46:29   loss and stuff like that i started [TS]

00:46:31   thinking about that book because there [TS]

00:46:32   really is a lot of that book that you [TS]

00:46:33   feel sort of like wow that did not go [TS]

00:46:36   well for that guy and that had a sequel [TS]

00:46:40   called a red seas under red skies and I [TS]

00:46:42   think there's another book do this year [TS]

00:46:44   or or sometime soon and so that would be [TS]

00:46:46   the other series that i read started [TS]

00:46:48   reading few years ago and thinking wow [TS]

00:46:49   this is this is really good i really [TS]

00:46:51   like this you know you know it also [TS]

00:46:53   throughout their I was thinking of [TS]

00:46:55   picking up ere it and I mentioned doctor [TS]

00:46:57   before I don't get called fantasy or [TS]

00:46:59   sci-fi is kind of in the middle but i [TS]

00:47:00   thought my favorite book in the dark [TS]

00:47:02   tower series reads like a fantasy book [TS]

00:47:04   wizard and glasses my favorite one and [TS]

00:47:06   that reads like a more-or-less [TS]

00:47:07   self-contained fantasy but can I thought [TS]

00:47:09   that was head and shoulders above its [TS]

00:47:11   really that's a really coherent like out [TS]

00:47:14   as opposed to a lot of the other books [TS]

00:47:15   in that series which are kind of like [TS]

00:47:17   this weird pastiche mix-match of genres [TS]

00:47:19   Wizarding glasses really really coherent [TS]

00:47:21   and like sort of focused on this story [TS]

00:47:25   and again it's sort of a it's a [TS]

00:47:26   flashback right because its role in [TS]

00:47:28   telling the story of yeah very little [TS]

00:47:30   framing story and that one but mostly in [TS]

00:47:32   the world bulb and then it's been retold [TS]

00:47:34   that they sort of told three different [TS]

00:47:36   lens in the Sudan doing a graphic novel [TS]

00:47:38   version of that and it's sort of it [TS]

00:47:42   telling some of the same story or the [TS]

00:47:43   the story of sort of young Roland which [TS]

00:47:45   is again interesting i think that i [TS]

00:47:46   agree that the world that world i really [TS]

00:47:49   enjoy [TS]

00:47:50   and wizards and glasses a pretty pretty [TS]

00:47:52   good book and you have to call that [TS]

00:47:53   fantasy right especially that old world [TS]

00:47:55   stuff is a kind of headlines and nights [TS]

00:47:56   an email they have done and seen [TS]

00:47:58   westerns right right well it's kind of a [TS]

00:48:00   mix-match of those two bowls of the [TS]

00:48:01   college more of the Western [TS]

00:48:03   self-contained book will that and that's [TS]

00:48:05   definitely a Western yeah well western / [TS]

00:48:07   syfy vs right [TS]

00:48:09   western / fantasy and I can study and [TS]

00:48:12   that's one of the things I love about [TS]

00:48:13   the dark tower is that it doesn't [TS]

00:48:14   embrace all those things but I guess [TS]

00:48:15   again something probably for another [TS]

00:48:17   podcast yeah but i would but i would put [TS]

00:48:19   that up there is like it was trying to [TS]

00:48:20   think of fantasy books i read i always [TS]

00:48:22   try to read those years best fantasy you [TS]

00:48:24   know just like I read the year's best [TS]

00:48:25   sci-fi stuff and for some reason have a [TS]

00:48:27   much easier time reading the year's best [TS]

00:48:29   sci-fi short stories and the fancy ones [TS]

00:48:31   I just I just peter out and don't make [TS]

00:48:33   it through the book [TS]

00:48:35   yeah I don't know what the I i'm trying [TS]

00:48:38   to think of other fantasy books I've [TS]

00:48:39   read in the last few years i think some [TS]

00:48:40   of them a lot of the other ones that i [TS]

00:48:42   really like are things that have been [TS]

00:48:43   around for awhile that are i mean for [TS]

00:48:46   example i love love Terry Pratchett who [TS]

00:48:48   writes in a fantasy world but it's very [TS]

00:48:49   means community right it's a little [TS]

00:48:51   different thing that's like saying [TS]

00:48:52   exactly like science fiction so I like [TS]

00:48:54   the hitchhiker's guide that so that he [TS]

00:48:55   has a general to himself and so does [TS]

00:48:57   terry pratchett I love him too [TS]

00:48:58   yeah so i'm trying to think if there's [TS]

00:49:00   anything else that was really like that [TS]

00:49:01   would jump out at me from the past 10 [TS]

00:49:03   years and yeah I there are some that are [TS]

00:49:06   the they're very like I everyone smile [TS]

00:49:08   see things come across but they could [TS]

00:49:09   always sound like very traditional sort [TS]

00:49:11   of fantasy books of the type that I you [TS]

00:49:13   know didn't really like that much so [TS]

00:49:15   that I had one of the things I liked [TS]

00:49:18   about the name of the wind i think in in [TS]

00:49:19   sort of coming back around to that is [TS]

00:49:21   that like Scott said that it didn't seem [TS]

00:49:24   too [TS]

00:49:25   while it has a lot of the tropes of a [TS]

00:49:27   fantasy novel it has enough different [TS]

00:49:29   going for it that I i found it kind of a [TS]

00:49:33   departure [TS]

00:49:34   it's kind of a fresh take on it's right [TS]

00:49:36   because it's not the same thing over and [TS]

00:49:39   over again like when I was a kid argue [TS]

00:49:41   your case i read a lot of david eddings [TS]

00:49:44   so I was obsessed with David a text i [TS]

00:49:46   read he had a 10 book series and I read [TS]

00:49:49   the whole thing and then he came out [TS]

00:49:50   with a new series and i read that was [TS]

00:49:51   five books they came up with another [TS]

00:49:53   series and slowly dawned on me that he [TS]

00:49:56   was telling the exact same story with [TS]

00:49:58   slightly different characters over [TS]

00:50:00   varying numbers of books and so I [TS]

00:50:02   stopped read that but this this was kind [TS]

00:50:04   of a similar story but had a very [TS]

00:50:05   different viewpoint [TS]

00:50:07   ya know I i agree with that I i never [TS]

00:50:11   read a lot of those ones that were big [TS]

00:50:13   when I was a when I was in high school [TS]

00:50:15   like terry brooks and Terry good kids [TS]

00:50:17   and all that I never never got into [TS]

00:50:19   those who I return good can then he [TS]

00:50:20   started getting very he sido un osito [TS]

00:50:25   masochistic it was weird [TS]

00:50:28   there are women who had pain sticks and [TS]

00:50:31   they wore red leather outfits so that [TS]

00:50:33   when blood splashed on them wouldn't [TS]

00:50:34   show up it got to be a bit much working [TS]

00:50:38   out some personal issues sure exactly [TS]

00:50:42   yeah i think that everything else that [TS]

00:50:45   I'd you know a lot of the other stuff [TS]

00:50:46   that i enjoyed as much older stuff and [TS]

00:50:50   you know I think there's always there's [TS]

00:50:51   a very porous you know border with a lot [TS]

00:50:54   of the science fiction and fantasy [TS]

00:50:56   things that I'll but I've wiped from [TS]

00:50:57   that era out but yeah there's there's [TS]

00:51:01   but it's it's an interesting uh it's an [TS]

00:51:04   interesting dilemma when you have these [TS]

00:51:06   sort of well-established genre with all [TS]

00:51:08   these well-trod story type so it's [TS]

00:51:11   always nice to see somebody break free a [TS]

00:51:12   little bit and well John I hope that I [TS]

00:51:15   hope the second book treats you better [TS]

00:51:16   than that than the first one is that it [TS]

00:51:18   released maybe you can you you can see [TS]

00:51:20   it through to the end [TS]

00:51:21   vibrations you are not going to like it [TS]

00:51:23   nah I don't call me crazy but I was [TS]

00:51:26   thinking that you know it probably [TS]

00:51:27   doesn't go anywhere either with I don't [TS]

00:51:29   know at this point I'll just because i [TS]

00:51:31   read a lot of books that are not great [TS]

00:51:33   like I read almost everything Stephen [TS]

00:51:34   King does and almost everything he does [TS]

00:51:36   is not great but there are certain [TS]

00:51:38   writing styles and authors that just [TS]

00:51:41   somehow the pages keep turning and just [TS]

00:51:42   go through you know I'm in the middle of [TS]

00:51:44   like there's the problem of the [TS]

00:51:46   e-readers maybe Scott has this problem [TS]

00:51:47   too i don't have a lot of e-readers [TS]

00:51:49   compared to him but i do have a lot of [TS]

00:51:50   devices where I can read and I'm in the [TS]

00:51:53   middle like nine books it's just it's [TS]

00:51:56   too many when i was doing paper book [TS]

00:51:57   that was always one of the time but now [TS]

00:51:59   it's like what I'm in the mood to read a [TS]

00:52:01   lot of them are nonfiction and those i [TS]

00:52:03   feel like i could stop and start at any [TS]

00:52:04   time but even the fiction books [TS]

00:52:07   I'm just in the middle so many of them [TS]

00:52:08   and like maybe do i remember i am in [TS]

00:52:10   this book yep i'll read a few chapters [TS]

00:52:11   of this and this is why I never make any [TS]

00:52:13   progress in my books moment when these [TS]

00:52:15   books come out [TS]

00:52:15   these name of the wind things I think I [TS]

00:52:17   pretty much for that straight through to [TS]

00:52:19   the end and i'll probably do the same [TS]

00:52:20   thing with the sequel because even if [TS]

00:52:22   anything happens there are amusing [TS]

00:52:23   scenes and you want to see what happens [TS]

00:52:25   and it's not you know the same reason [TS]

00:52:27   you watch bad sitcom TV like an [TS]

00:52:29   entertainment for a few minutes but when [TS]

00:52:31   it's over I do feel a little dirty [TS]

00:52:33   yeah and I think Jack slur every day [TS]

00:52:38   yeah but the Lord yeah I don't think [TS]

00:52:39   we're helping like it's hard to get [TS]

00:52:40   people on this podcast to read a fantasy [TS]

00:52:42   book right so it's just the three of us [TS]

00:52:44   one guy was never on a book episode and [TS]

00:52:46   the and the two guys who read everything [TS]

00:52:47   this podcast is not going to help us get [TS]

00:52:50   people on the beach you know the next [TS]

00:52:51   fantasy football guess but for God's [TS]

00:52:53   sake people read the dark tower so we [TS]

00:52:54   can talk about it it's only 8,000 pages [TS]

00:52:57   are you waiting for [TS]

00:52:59   would you here's the question for both [TS]

00:53:01   you and then would you recommend this [TS]

00:53:03   book if someone you're with your friends [TS]

00:53:05   computer says hey I want to read a [TS]

00:53:07   fantasy book [TS]

00:53:07   what would you recommend you read of [TS]

00:53:09   recent vintage i'd recommend i have [TS]

00:53:13   recommended this book a to a few people [TS]

00:53:15   and and most of them will have I think [TS]

00:53:17   enjoyed it [TS]

00:53:18   although I have some friends who are [TS]

00:53:20   very wary of that whole like george RR [TS]

00:53:22   martin robert jordan disease of its [TS]

00:53:24   going two years and years before the you [TS]

00:53:26   know the final book in the series comes [TS]

00:53:28   out now but this is definitely one that [TS]

00:53:31   i've recommended to several people and [TS]

00:53:32   that they seem to mostly enjoyed the [TS]

00:53:35   lies of locke lamora as i mentioned [TS]

00:53:36   before is another one that I often [TS]

00:53:38   recommend and then probably you know [TS]

00:53:41   george RR martin you know in terms of [TS]

00:53:43   recent stuff but there's definitely [TS]

00:53:44   older stuff i like it i'm a big fan of [TS]

00:53:46   dark hour tom has as John i know is and [TS]

00:53:51   i'm trying to think after that again if [TS]

00:53:52   there's anything else that would really [TS]

00:53:53   come up there like like terry pratchett [TS]

00:53:57   put you know he's kind of in a different [TS]

00:53:58   class i wouldn't recommend this book to [TS]

00:54:01   someone who want to get a fantasy just [TS]

00:54:02   because I don't think it's I don't think [TS]

00:54:05   it's representative of the genre i would [TS]

00:54:07   try to look for more prototypical book [TS]

00:54:08   you know even if it was one that i [TS]

00:54:11   hadn't registered was more typical [TS]

00:54:13   because this is kind of weird off the [TS]

00:54:14   beaten path and flabby and just you know [TS]

00:54:17   if you're not into the fantasy genre you [TS]

00:54:19   want something that's gonna like hook [TS]

00:54:20   them and get them into I like for [TS]

00:54:22   example i would definitely recommend [TS]

00:54:22   eyes the dragon we just like [TS]

00:54:24   my first fantasy book really simple [TS]

00:54:27   Wizards little bit of magic but [TS]

00:54:29   basically just like a simple story with [TS]

00:54:31   a beginning middle and end that [TS]

00:54:33   self-contained it's not a book is not [TS]

00:54:35   book 120 book series or anything like [TS]

00:54:37   that that's the type of book I recommend [TS]

00:54:39   if I knew more fantasy books i'll [TS]

00:54:41   probably have a much better example that [TS]

00:54:42   I that's that I have mentioned this book [TS]

00:54:44   other people most of the time saying [TS]

00:54:46   that I that I thought it had some [TS]

00:54:47   interesting elements but had many many [TS]

00:54:49   bad things are and so far it hasn't made [TS]

00:54:52   any of the people i've mentioned it due [TS]

00:54:53   to go out and buy it and read it i [TS]

00:54:55   wonder why but I mean you never know [TS]

00:54:58   like i said i said the same thing about [TS]

00:55:00   a friend of mine I told him about the [TS]

00:55:02   dark tower series and talk about not [TS]

00:55:06   wanting to get committed to something [TS]

00:55:08   that's just going to be this gigantic [TS]

00:55:09   loose conglomeration of stuff that you [TS]

00:55:12   have spans 30 years that's a big [TS]

00:55:15   commitment but yeah there is enough to [TS]

00:55:18   recommend that he actually go through [TS]

00:55:20   and read the whole thing i feel kind of [TS]

00:55:21   bad about that put its you never know [TS]

00:55:24   like I i want to i want to give an [TS]

00:55:25   accurate picture of a book that I want [TS]

00:55:26   to see what people are getting into [TS]

00:55:27   someone was like I'm i might be [TS]

00:55:29   interested in fantasy i don't know i [TS]

00:55:31   don't know if i would recommend this [TS]

00:55:32   book but if I given what i think is an [TS]

00:55:34   accurate description of what they can [TS]

00:55:35   decide on their own if there was this is [TS]

00:55:37   what they want to sign up for [TS]

00:55:39   well that's a that's a fair point out to [TS]

00:55:42   you you imagine you saying if you want [TS]

00:55:44   to read a crappy book [TS]

00:55:45   not if you say so you're saying you're [TS]

00:55:48   like us if you read a lot of fantasy [TS]

00:55:50   books and you feel kind of burned out on [TS]

00:55:51   it and you want to like read something [TS]

00:55:53   to like maybe try to read fantasy again [TS]

00:55:55   that will keep your interest like this [TS]

00:55:57   that's what it did for me because I [TS]

00:55:58   hadn't read fantasy and years and years [TS]

00:55:59   and every time i tried i didn't get [TS]

00:56:00   anywhere in this book maybe read through [TS]

00:56:02   it and i'll take the flip side of that [TS]

00:56:04   and say that you know there are a lot of [TS]

00:56:05   people there are certainly a stigma [TS]

00:56:06   attached to a fantasy in some settings [TS]

00:56:08   like you know I have friends who like [TS]

00:56:10   now I can comment about magic and [TS]

00:56:12   wizards and Dragons and I think there's [TS]

00:56:13   nothing here that's not sort of doesn't [TS]

00:56:16   fall into those typical tropes and the [TS]

00:56:18   writing is very accessible and fun like [TS]

00:56:21   it is like John says it's paige Turner [TS]

00:56:22   if nothing else and i think that's [TS]

00:56:24   that's something that often recommends [TS]

00:56:26   itself to people who are like a little [TS]

00:56:27   maybe mom might be a little like shy [TS]

00:56:29   away from your traditional fantasy books [TS]

00:56:31   because of the stigma attached to them [TS]

00:56:33   yeah we should all go out and recommend [TS]

00:56:35   22 all our friends and relatives and see [TS]

00:56:37   if anyone actually see you actually [TS]

00:56:38   reads it and what they think we'll find [TS]

00:56:41   a control group and let's be scientific [TS]

00:56:43   about this want to pick something off [TS]

00:56:45   the street see if they liked it and then [TS]

00:56:46   we can determine been from that whether [TS]

00:56:47   or not it was a good book i think all [TS]

00:56:50   all things told any book that I find [TS]

00:56:53   entertaining and then i read and makes [TS]

00:56:55   you want to read the second book even [TS]

00:56:56   though it's four years in between is a [TS]

00:56:59   successful book and i would recommend it [TS]

00:57:00   so I say good job Patrick Rufus or [TS]

00:57:05   whatever the heck you had job on the [TS]

00:57:07   pronunciation first of all why didn't [TS]

00:57:08   you pick your last name better exactly [TS]

00:57:11   the first problem you you couldn't get [TS]

00:57:13   your character names and you picked [TS]

00:57:14   names that we can find a lightweight i [TS]

00:57:16   guess we should be blessed there are no [TS]

00:57:17   posture peace in the name that's true [TS]

00:57:19   and i actually thought he did a good job [TS]

00:57:21   if I never had to pronounce the names i [TS]

00:57:23   talk names in a book about naming I [TS]

00:57:25   thought the names were very good yes but [TS]

00:57:27   I'm pretty weird every once in a while [TS]

00:57:29   there's a scene in a second book where [TS]

00:57:30   he's telling a story or something in [TS]

00:57:32   your and one like talking to some kid or [TS]

00:57:34   something they refer to as Jimmy and I [TS]

00:57:36   was like every once in a while that he [TS]

00:57:38   throws in a name that you're just like [TS]

00:57:39   that so yeah that was that was kind of [TS]

00:57:43   funny but yeah I would agree with Scott [TS]

00:57:45   an overall think that this is you know [TS]

00:57:46   def book that I read twice actually and [TS]

00:57:49   enjoy because i read my so now the truth [TS]

00:57:51   comes height i read the second time this [TS]

00:57:54   year before because i wanted to read it [TS]

00:57:55   because I have a very bad memory for [TS]

00:57:56   these books like Scott I ready to cut [TS]

00:57:58   several years ago and so I reread it [TS]

00:58:00   before the second book came out because [TS]

00:58:01   I sort of wanted to pick up the second [TS]

00:58:03   book like a continuation of the first [TS]

00:58:04   book and I cannot imagine doing that [TS]

00:58:06   it's pretty good the second time i [TS]

00:58:09   enjoyed i remembered i remembered some [TS]

00:58:10   of it but not all of it when he posted a [TS]

00:58:13   recap in cartoon form on his blog so i [TS]

00:58:17   read that and that was very helpful to [TS]

00:58:18   get it [TS]

00:58:19   previously on the neighborhood wait [TS]

00:58:21   exactly there's very few books that I've [TS]

00:58:23   reread they've gotten better or even [TS]

00:58:25   stayed the same on second reading most [TS]

00:58:26   the time and second reading they get [TS]

00:58:27   worse because the second reading I know [TS]

00:58:29   what's going to happen so my brain has [TS]

00:58:31   more leftover cycles to to analyze the [TS]

00:58:34   the you know the mechanics of the story [TS]

00:58:36   and the writing and end up let not [TS]

00:58:38   liking it as much as I going one book [TS]

00:58:39   that I read multiple times that does not [TS]

00:58:41   get worse on multiple readings and sort [TS]

00:58:43   of the ranks which I've read many many [TS]

00:58:45   times and it [TS]

00:58:45   you get better on multiple rings but [TS]

00:58:47   doesn't it works either tasting I'm [TS]

00:58:49   gonna have a podcast and there's gonna [TS]

00:58:51   be a podcast for John and I talked about [TS]

00:58:52   Lord of the Rings and I tell him how [TS]

00:58:53   much I really don't like lord of the [TS]

00:58:55   rings that I i can and i understand the [TS]

00:58:57   reasons why people don't like it I'm [TS]

00:58:59   just saying for me it doesn't get it [TS]

00:59:01   doesn't get it doesn't get worse and I [TS]

00:59:03   feel like to say the same words might I [TS]

00:59:05   don't hate it but I i read the books [TS]

00:59:07   themselves or not the stories are ok the [TS]

00:59:09   book sorry it's not it's not it's not [TS]

00:59:11   for it's not for everybody [TS]

00:59:13   the writing and everything at the store [TS]

00:59:15   I don't make the cut i guess but now it [TS]

00:59:18   just it's just what you're interested in [TS]

00:59:20   like if you for example you ever read [TS]

00:59:21   Michael Palin so nonfiction [TS]

00:59:23   no well if you like he just travel [TS]

00:59:27   writing and I feel like you like travel [TS]

00:59:29   writing you probably like lord of the [TS]

00:59:30   rings because a lot of it reads like [TS]

00:59:32   fiction time here see sort of scenic [TS]

00:59:37   Mordor seriously this huge swathes of [TS]

00:59:39   that but they're just people like [TS]

00:59:40   walking across the landscape and [TS]

00:59:42   described in the landscape and in [TS]

00:59:43   ridiculous detail and if recommending [TS]

00:59:46   restaurants which always thought was [TS]

00:59:47   weird but have you at the White Tower [TS]

00:59:49   and minus fear is it's great i mean that [TS]

00:59:51   the ribs if you haven't read if you have [TS]

00:59:54   Michael Palin but you should at least I [TS]

00:59:56   think our netflix you should leave [TS]

00:59:57   swatch some of the video because he goes [TS]

00:59:59   around the world [TS]

00:59:59   around the world [TS]

01:00:00   travels and and films it and the books [TS]

01:00:02   are a little bit thicker than the travel [TS]

01:00:04   videos but they the show's themselves [TS]

01:00:06   are actually very entertaining great for [TS]

01:00:07   long plane flight for something so are [TS]

01:00:10   those are there's our fantasy [TS]

01:00:11   recommendation [TS]

01:00:12   yeah Michael Palin full circle or any of [TS]

01:00:14   those other is very serious [TS]

01:00:16   alright well the robotic buzzing of John [TS]

01:00:19   Syracuse's voice tells me that it's that [TS]

01:00:21   that we've hit our our our long mark [TS]

01:00:22   here so I'm going I'm going to wrap up [TS]

01:00:25   and thank my guests Scott McNulty [TS]

01:00:28   the pleasure was all mine and john [TS]

01:00:31   surtees this microphone better net ya [TS]

01:00:33   later just in time [TS]

01:00:35   just a little and thank you all for [TS]

01:00:37   listening I'm being more and we'll be [TS]

01:00:39   we'll see you next time on the [TS]

01:00:41   we'll be watching [TS]

01:00:45   [Music] [TS]

01:00:49   I remember reading Lord of the Rings on [TS]

01:00:52   a 160 x 160 pixel screen [TS]

01:01:04   I'm full of corned beef [TS]