The Incomparable

28: Bad at High School


00:00:00   the in tom purple Todd test number 20 a [TS]

00:00:08   morris 2011 [TS]

00:00:11   we are back on the incomparable your [TS]

00:00:15   source for all discussions about topics [TS]

00:00:18   that are relatively Kiki and major I [TS]

00:00:20   hope I'm not offending anybody by saying [TS]

00:00:22   that I there was a time in my life when [TS]

00:00:25   I was a teenager in the eighties where I [TS]

00:00:26   i guess i would be offended if somebody [TS]

00:00:28   said my interests were geeky although if [TS]

00:00:31   I was standing there wearing a doctor [TS]

00:00:32   who t-shirt then I would be have no [TS]

00:00:35   defense i would be a supposed to use [TS]

00:00:38   your son exclude driver and teach them a [TS]

00:00:40   lesson [TS]

00:00:40   yes I didn't have a scrubbing sonic [TS]

00:00:42   screwdriver i did have actually even [TS]

00:00:45   worse it was a glow-in-the-dark Doctor [TS]

00:00:47   Who t-shirt with the five doctors ormond [TS]

00:00:50   this is presumably so you can see how [TS]

00:00:52   many girls were not impressed by the [TS]

00:00:53   t-shirt at you why was I was going to [TS]

00:00:55   mention barrels at least in the context [TS]

00:00:57   of I did wear to high school a couple of [TS]

00:00:59   times and I know I never dated anybody [TS]

00:01:01   in high school so connect the dots [TS]

00:01:03   coincidence i think i think not my [TS]

00:01:06   Motley Crue that joins me today a [TS]

00:01:08   combination we haven't had before this [TS]

00:01:10   podcast i believe we have joining us [TS]

00:01:12   from from the lovely silver city of [TS]

00:01:15   alameda Lisa Schmeisser hi Lisa [TS]

00:01:18   hello also joining me today is John [TS]

00:01:21   siracusa hi John [TS]

00:01:22   you know I think this is kind of like [TS]

00:01:24   this long-running TV dramas were [TS]

00:01:26   eventually everybody has to be on a show [TS]

00:01:28   with everybody else [TS]

00:01:30   every permutation must be explored so [TS]

00:01:32   I'm happy to further that goal [TS]

00:01:33   excellent excellent and our very own Ted [TS]

00:01:36   McGinley himself scott mcneil the-- [TS]

00:01:38   hello who have nothing in response to [TS]

00:01:42   that I get you shouldn't you should be [TS]

00:01:45   offended you should shout this podcast [TS]

00:01:46   is over i'm saving that for later later [TS]

00:01:49   thank you that's right always keep the [TS]

00:01:50   red button I'm ready to be pushed so our [TS]

00:01:53   topic today is a different one for us a [TS]

00:01:55   little bit [TS]

00:01:56   Lisa send a message to our our little [TS]

00:01:59   incomparable mailing list talking about [TS]

00:02:01   geek culture as a concept in general and [TS]

00:02:04   the the concepts of you know geek [TS]

00:02:07   culture is a secret culture or you know [TS]

00:02:09   was it accidentally secret was it secret [TS]

00:02:11   because nobody really cared to join me [TS]

00:02:13   so we were all alone in it and one of [TS]

00:02:16   the one of the articles that came up was [TS]

00:02:20   a piece that ran and wired a little [TS]

00:02:22   while ago by comedian Patton [TS]

00:02:25   Oswalt very funny fellow who those of [TS]

00:02:27   you who are not familiar with his comedy [TS]

00:02:29   may know as the voice of the the remedy [TS]

00:02:32   the rat in ratatouille [TS]

00:02:34   you may also know him as the although i [TS]

00:02:37   don't know many kings of king of queens [TS]

00:02:39   listeners who might listen to the [TS]

00:02:40   incomparable but if you are a a king of [TS]

00:02:43   queens viewer he was on that sitcom as [TS]

00:02:46   well [TS]

00:02:47   very funny fellow and as it turns out [TS]

00:02:49   remarkably nerdy which I I wasn't aware [TS]

00:02:52   of that he wrote a piece and wired [TS]

00:02:55   called wake up geek culture time to die [TS]

00:02:57   which itself is a blade runner reference [TS]

00:03:00   by the way and in it he talks about nerd [TS]

00:03:04   culture and how back in the day and the [TS]

00:03:06   eighties he felt that he was part of a [TS]

00:03:10   secret society who was able to shout out [TS]

00:03:12   Monty Python references and and Princess [TS]

00:03:16   Bride references and talk about various [TS]

00:03:18   monsters in the monster manual of [TS]

00:03:20   Dungeons and Dragons and and refer to [TS]

00:03:22   specific Star Trek episodes and was [TS]

00:03:24   reading not just the watchman but the [TS]

00:03:26   swamp thing run of alan moore that [TS]

00:03:28   preceded the watch men and how in this [TS]

00:03:32   day of Internet a knowledge and in many [TS]

00:03:37   ways a celebration of the culture that [TS]

00:03:38   this has been lost now some of what he [TS]

00:03:40   writes it's sort of silly but some of it [TS]

00:03:43   i think is also very serious and and [TS]

00:03:46   will link to it in the show notes and [TS]

00:03:47   you might want to stop and read it and [TS]

00:03:49   then come back if you have that sort of [TS]

00:03:50   multitasking podcast person but so so [TS]

00:03:55   with that said I i wanted to start by [TS]

00:03:57   getting reactions to to what Patton [TS]

00:04:01   Oswalt road and also maybe a little bit [TS]

00:04:03   about sort of your looking back on your [TS]

00:04:05   life and and how you kind of got [TS]

00:04:07   immersed in more geeky pursuits [TS]

00:04:09   Lisa I you you're the one who brought [TS]

00:04:11   this to our attention you know where [TS]

00:04:13   would you like to start [TS]

00:04:15   I i have to admit i'm a big patton [TS]

00:04:17   oswalt family I have all of his albums i [TS]

00:04:19   read this essay right after I finished [TS]

00:04:22   reading his books Dombey spaceship [TS]

00:04:23   apocalypse and the premise of which can [TS]

00:04:26   you explain the zombie spaceship [TS]

00:04:28   apocalypse premise there because it [TS]

00:04:31   seems pretty self-explanatory 10 there [TS]

00:04:33   are actually three separate concepts [TS]

00:04:35   oh yeah you know as Walter Isaacson that [TS]

00:04:37   most fantasy and sci-fi folk can be [TS]

00:04:40   divided into one of three tribes those [TS]

00:04:42   who connect with zombie stories those [TS]

00:04:44   who connect with spaceship stories and [TS]

00:04:46   those who connect with the [TS]

00:04:47   post-apocalyptic landscape stories and [TS]

00:04:50   his premise is that how you connect [TS]

00:04:52   actually says a lot about you as a [TS]

00:04:53   person for example people who connect [TS]

00:04:55   with spaceships stories tend not to be [TS]

00:04:57   very interested in solving problems [TS]

00:04:59   where they are because they're like [TS]

00:05:00   screw this i'll just find another space [TS]

00:05:01   system and in real life they tend to be [TS]

00:05:04   pretty self-contained they tend to be [TS]

00:05:05   prepared for everything because they [TS]

00:05:06   have that on a spaceship mentality and [TS]

00:05:09   he alleges that most comedians connect [TS]

00:05:12   with straight across the [TS]

00:05:13   post-apocalyptic landscape type [TS]

00:05:15   scenarios because it's about the total [TS]

00:05:17   disintegration chaos of society and [TS]

00:05:19   observing what comes next so he'd [TS]

00:05:21   already begun working on a sort of nerd [TS]

00:05:24   taxonomy and then this article came out [TS]

00:05:27   and I I see him sort of codifying his [TS]

00:05:30   argument even more and I think the thing [TS]

00:05:33   that rubs me the wrong way is it's a [TS]

00:05:37   nostalgia soaked piece in the sense oh I [TS]

00:05:39   was in to watch my back before it was a [TS]

00:05:41   byword for a spectacularly bad movie and [TS]

00:05:44   it's it's kind of doing the same thing [TS]

00:05:50   that the social groups who really did [TS]

00:05:52   ostracized ostracized nerds and geeks [TS]

00:05:54   did to us back in the eighties which is [TS]

00:05:55   it's creating a hierarchy putting people [TS]

00:05:57   in it and assigning value judgments to [TS]

00:05:59   it and its complaint as well you people [TS]

00:06:01   who are geeks today aren't geeky enough [TS]

00:06:02   because you don't have to work that hard [TS]

00:06:04   for the arcana but there's not a [TS]

00:06:06   commitment [TS]

00:06:07   yes exactly um I can remember going to [TS]

00:06:10   virginia tech in 1990 and meeting up [TS]

00:06:12   with a group with a mutual friends group [TS]

00:06:14   of friends who were huge into this the [TS]

00:06:17   this icon circuit and they had all of [TS]

00:06:19   these in jokes that you would know if [TS]

00:06:20   you had been attending Baltic on and [TS]

00:06:23   Dragon Con in the rest of the cons to [TS]

00:06:25   the eighties and somehow in order to be [TS]

00:06:27   part of this group I was going to have [TS]

00:06:29   to be expected to hunt down the [TS]

00:06:30   references and spend enough time around [TS]

00:06:32   these people that could build a social [TS]

00:06:33   capital to be included in the [TS]

00:06:35   conversation and needless to say that [TS]

00:06:37   was like the first last time I hung out [TS]

00:06:39   with these folks but well I mean come on [TS]

00:06:42   uh it's just that the the notion that [TS]

00:06:45   you have to have some sort of [TS]

00:06:47   admissions test to qualify for being [TS]

00:06:49   interested in the subculture that it is [TS]

00:06:51   something i can see keeps coming up with [TS]

00:06:53   it is it's just an idea that rubs me the [TS]

00:06:54   wrong way [TS]

00:06:55   well it's not a jock is not a joke move [TS]

00:06:57   i'm right i mean i mean is not have to [TS]

00:06:59   try a 13 exclude an exclusive excluding [TS]

00:07:02   people because they're not cool enough [TS]

00:07:03   and I don't pass for your membership [TS]

00:07:05   test is is I mean it sounds like a very [TS]

00:07:07   unnerved like thing to do i would [TS]

00:07:09   actually and you can also get a band [TS]

00:07:11   geek / drama club move because you have [TS]

00:07:13   to have some monochrome of talent or [TS]

00:07:14   some cult of personality aspected that [TS]

00:07:16   lets you run around with the people who [TS]

00:07:18   are always putting on coffin our place [TS]

00:07:19   and I thought it's it's very typical of [TS]

00:07:24   people of a geeky orderly persuasion to [TS]

00:07:27   want to assign hierarchies because if [TS]

00:07:29   you take a look at the passions that [TS]

00:07:31   drive people like Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:07:32   or comic book collecting or Star Wars [TS]

00:07:36   there there's part of the appeals is [TS]

00:07:38   this Universal internal consistent rules [TS]

00:07:40   apply to make order of it so it's an [TS]

00:07:42   understandable impulse I just think it's [TS]

00:07:43   reprehensible when it comes to human [TS]

00:07:44   nature and it also seems to be [TS]

00:07:48   remarkably unselfconscious when you know [TS]

00:07:52   come on the part of being a geek or nerd [TS]

00:07:54   was you had a degree of ostracize ation [TS]

00:07:58   which led you to observe other social [TS]

00:08:01   groups and see how they function so why [TS]

00:08:03   aren't you turning that on to your own [TS]

00:08:05   little rules and structures what is what [TS]

00:08:08   seems to be saying is that the reason [TS]

00:08:09   that that people got into these kind of [TS]

00:08:12   key topics because they were not really [TS]

00:08:15   discussed and widely known and and i [TS]

00:08:18   read that and thought that I don't think [TS]

00:08:19   that's the case at all i think that I i [TS]

00:08:21   think it was the reverse I think that I [TS]

00:08:23   was interested in things that were [TS]

00:08:25   narrower than than what other people [TS]

00:08:27   were interested in not because they were [TS]

00:08:29   narrow but be just because I I i like [TS]

00:08:31   them so my question is you know it do we [TS]

00:08:33   like reading about you know hearing [TS]

00:08:36   stories about about people on spaceships [TS]

00:08:38   are on other planets because we're where [TS]

00:08:40   you know we want to be separate from the [TS]

00:08:42   crowd or just because we like that extra [TS]

00:08:45   layer of kind of imagination that [TS]

00:08:47   something like sci-fi or fantasy can [TS]

00:08:50   give us that some stuff that's more [TS]

00:08:52   literal wouldn't give us [TS]

00:08:53   I don't think patent was saying that we [TS]

00:08:56   like them because they're [TS]

00:08:58   are there narrow his the beginning part [TS]

00:09:02   of that sa was all tangled up into these [TS]

00:09:04   these poorly supported most the [TS]

00:09:06   conclusions that I totally disagree with [TS]

00:09:08   a minute veered off into this comedy [TS]

00:09:10   thing so it's hard to it's hard to get [TS]

00:09:12   it what he was like trying to say [TS]

00:09:14   because he'd go from one party to the [TS]

00:09:16   next you just throw something out there [TS]

00:09:17   completely unsupported just you know [TS]

00:09:19   saying it as if it's a fact then move on [TS]

00:09:21   to his next point and almost all those [TS]

00:09:23   points early works better spoken in a [TS]

00:09:25   stand-up routine i would think yeah [TS]

00:09:26   because then you can laugh and he but [TS]

00:09:28   you know if you think about any of them [TS]

00:09:30   out sticking and that you can sink into [TS]

00:09:31   the rhythm and make center and you're [TS]

00:09:33   saying like you know is it because [TS]

00:09:35   they're narrow you're trying to examine [TS]

00:09:37   his earlier argument as if they're there [TS]

00:09:38   logically constructed and try to think [TS]

00:09:40   of some sort of underlying he might have [TS]

00:09:43   and I think there's a decent argument [TS]

00:09:44   here which is you know d is nerd culture [TS]

00:09:47   exciting because it gives the Nerds [TS]

00:09:50   something that only they know that that [TS]

00:09:52   all the other people don't know or is it [TS]

00:09:54   just the way it is because that's the [TS]

00:09:56   stuff that being nerdy being geeky means [TS]

00:09:58   you were interested in in in these [TS]

00:10:01   things you know just because you are it [TS]

00:10:03   has nothing to do with excluding other [TS]

00:10:04   people i think it's a little bit i think [TS]

00:10:07   it's a little more a little more dire [TS]

00:10:09   than that and that i think the people [TS]

00:10:11   who are geeks in high school are the [TS]

00:10:14   people who are who don't have the tools [TS]

00:10:16   or are not successful at the the the [TS]

00:10:21   social game that sort of defines high [TS]

00:10:23   school right and for whatever reason [TS]

00:10:25   they're just you know they're shy there [TS]

00:10:28   they're awkward they're they're insecure [TS]

00:10:30   they have some sort of problem that [TS]

00:10:31   keeps them out of the larger social game [TS]

00:10:33   that's that the the norm right and i [TS]

00:10:37   think once you're out of that game you [TS]

00:10:38   need to find something else to to [TS]

00:10:42   accelerator to be interested in you just [TS]

00:10:43   have more time for other things now I [TS]

00:10:45   say that because i think that the the [TS]

00:10:48   love for things the geeks like [TS]

00:10:49   spaceships robots you know fantasy novel [TS]

00:10:53   stuff like that that stuff is if I [TS]

00:10:57   pretty much evenly distributed across [TS]

00:10:58   all kids of that age I believe but it [TS]

00:11:01   only manifests in the people who are who [TS]

00:11:04   don't do well in the social structure of [TS]

00:11:07   of that that time period of their lives [TS]

00:11:09   and they you know dive right into ahead [TS]

00:11:11   for [TS]

00:11:12   just and and that ties back into the [TS]

00:11:13   panel's thing always talks about the the [TS]

00:11:15   dude in the gym who's got the above that [TS]

00:11:17   thing on his sleeve is lifting weights [TS]

00:11:19   and he was the jock who is you know [TS]

00:11:20   beating up on high school but now he [TS]

00:11:22   thinks he can co-opt both that an actual [TS]

00:11:24   he's cool [TS]

00:11:25   I think he liked both it just as much as [TS]

00:11:26   you did he just wasn't is dedicated and [TS]

00:11:29   obsessed right in in high school and [TS]

00:11:32   that's what I think it is i don't think [TS]

00:11:34   it has to do with were more interested [TS]

00:11:36   in these topics and other people you [TS]

00:11:37   know obviously this visit i could hit a [TS]

00:11:38   spectrum there is just that it we [TS]

00:11:41   dedicated ourselves more to it because [TS]

00:11:43   we didn't have other things to dedicate [TS]

00:11:45   ourselves to with that sports or [TS]

00:11:46   relationships or anything like that [TS]

00:11:48   they're so so this is the thing that we [TS]

00:11:49   could master whereas somebody else might [TS]

00:11:52   just think it was cool I i do i really [TS]

00:11:54   like what you said there because i think [TS]

00:11:57   that there's truth in that that you know [TS]

00:11:59   it's not that this stuff wasn't [TS]

00:12:00   appreciated by lots of people I really [TS]

00:12:02   refute the idea i'm not sure if [TS]

00:12:05   anybody's actually made this accusation [TS]

00:12:06   but i felt a little of it coming from [TS]

00:12:07   Oswalt that that the reason people like [TS]

00:12:10   stories about spaceships or or or [TS]

00:12:12   fantasy realms is because they've [TS]

00:12:14   decided to retreat from reality and [TS]

00:12:16   that's the only reason you'd like them [TS]

00:12:18   is because you're an outcast which just [TS]

00:12:19   like no wrong or you like them because [TS]

00:12:21   they're because they're narrowly I mean [TS]

00:12:23   if anything geeks to meet these geeks [TS]

00:12:25   wanted to be part of the group why would [TS]

00:12:27   they seek out something that took them [TS]

00:12:28   away from the group you know they were [TS]

00:12:29   to this just means that's just not the [TS]

00:12:31   impulse you know there they were looking [TS]

00:12:32   for any other kid who played the india [TS]

00:12:34   with them in honey you know I I i think [TS]

00:12:37   i was just completely clueless when I [TS]

00:12:39   think back to high school but when I put [TS]

00:12:40   on that glow in the dark doctor who [TS]

00:12:42   shirt I was just like I thought it was I [TS]

00:12:44   didn't think it was cool it's just I [TS]

00:12:46   liked it and so I wore it and i think if [TS]

00:12:48   i had been more aware of how to build up [TS]

00:12:52   some more social standing [TS]

00:12:54   I would have known that that was a [TS]

00:12:55   really bad idea and I figured that out [TS]

00:12:57   much later denied all knowledge of the [TS]

00:13:01   it's likely that you're bad you're not a [TS]

00:13:03   second you were not able to successfully [TS]

00:13:04   navigate the social structure of high [TS]

00:13:06   school for whatever reason you know you [TS]

00:13:08   just didn't have until they clicked [TS]

00:13:10   right but right so it was almost [TS]

00:13:11   cluelessness more than anything else I [TS]

00:13:12   didn't was like well I can master Doctor [TS]

00:13:15   Who because nobody else will have me it [TS]

00:13:16   was more like I just I was like oh this [TS]

00:13:18   is cool not aware that it was so not [TS]

00:13:20   cool [TS]

00:13:21   so it and if you have found other doctor [TS]

00:13:23   who fans you ever like yes you should [TS]

00:13:24   let me go [TS]

00:13:25   you about Doctor Who I love it I think [TS]

00:13:26   you'll love it too and that you know you [TS]

00:13:28   wouldn't like heart jealously as if you [TS]

00:13:29   here we want like no you can't know [TS]

00:13:31   about doc Oh God let me tell you John [TS]

00:13:35   there was another doctor who fan in my [TS]

00:13:37   high school and os was it your [TS]

00:13:40   arch-nemesis [TS]

00:13:41   no no he was the geekiest person at the [TS]

00:13:43   high school he oh my god he was your [TS]

00:13:47   stereotypical a geeky guy nerdy guy he [TS]

00:13:50   kind of couldn't talk to people [TS]

00:13:52   hehe was super super like science guy [TS]

00:13:56   and he will actually wore he wore the [TS]

00:13:58   Tom Baker scarf around all the time and [TS]

00:14:03   and even I knew that was a faux pas [TS]

00:14:05   socially so i couldn't i I couldn't bear [TS]

00:14:07   to have any sort of alliance with him [TS]

00:14:09   even though he was kind of a kid's [TS]

00:14:11   kindred spirit and we occasionally he'd [TS]

00:14:13   be like oh you like Doctor Who to like [TS]

00:14:14   uh yeah I got a thing I gotta go because [TS]

00:14:18   he was so far out there so I I feel bad [TS]

00:14:21   about it now but he was just like no no [TS]

00:14:22   that way lies madness so but it wasn't [TS]

00:14:26   because you felt like now that another [TS]

00:14:28   person interested in it lessens the [TS]

00:14:29   attraction of Doctor Who to me it didn't [TS]

00:14:31   affect your attractive doctor who at all [TS]

00:14:33   no sadly did there was actually kind of [TS]

00:14:35   a dividing line between geek experiences [TS]

00:14:37   in high school versus college [TS]

00:14:39   we're in high school I i agree with John [TS]

00:14:43   that some of some of the the the geek [TS]

00:14:47   set as it were if you have to put the [TS]

00:14:48   parentheses around certainly comes from [TS]

00:14:50   not being able to navigate high school's [TS]

00:14:51   rules and structures which I want to add [TS]

00:14:55   is not necessarily a bad thing but in [TS]

00:14:59   college I noticed a lot of geeks were [TS]

00:15:01   very very rigorous about reinforcing [TS]

00:15:03   what they thought the parameters and [TS]

00:15:04   boundaries of geek culture were and they [TS]

00:15:06   were very quick to throw you out of it [TS]

00:15:07   or call you as a fraud if you couldn't [TS]

00:15:10   keep up with the code [TS]

00:15:13   um there's you couldn't quote the [TS]

00:15:16   princess bride with the group that you [TS]

00:15:17   were if you can answer Monty Python [TS]

00:15:19   quote with a corresponding quote or if [TS]

00:15:22   you couldn't keep track of whether that [TS]

00:15:23   Jean Grey was alive or dead on a given [TS]

00:15:25   day up which is hard you for Furyk for [TS]

00:15:28   example in high school the guy who [TS]

00:15:30   passed me elfquest comic books in [TS]

00:15:32   English class was also the school pot [TS]

00:15:35   dealer so he kind of move back and forth [TS]

00:15:37   between always [TS]

00:15:37   different interests so he could you [TS]

00:15:39   could get your own you can hook you up [TS]

00:15:40   with health quest or with pop well if [TS]

00:15:42   you really like elfquest I I have [TS]

00:15:44   something there is a little bit of [TS]

00:15:45   chemical you gonna say I'm gonna say [TS]

00:15:48   it's hard to say which one of those [TS]

00:15:49   things worse [TS]

00:15:50   actually if you smoke the pot the [TS]

00:15:52   HealthQuest gasps colors and that is a [TS]

00:15:54   comic that makes a lot more sense like [TS]

00:15:56   the hair dissolving sudden start to come [TS]

00:15:57   together whereas again in college and [TS]

00:16:02   again this at people who were in Society [TS]

00:16:04   for Creative Anachronism would have [TS]

00:16:05   never ever been caught dead hanging with [TS]

00:16:08   the people who are doing homegrown [TS]

00:16:09   pharmaceuticals and again you have the [TS]

00:16:11   Conn crowd which would darkly Lou 20 [TS]

00:16:14   that thing Harlan Ellison did back in 86 [TS]

00:16:16   and all cackle and then look at you like [TS]

00:16:17   you're supposed to say yes it was [TS]

00:16:19   terrible when you could not have given [TS]

00:16:21   two graphs with Harlan also have done [TS]

00:16:23   back in 1986 and senses Harlan Ellison [TS]

00:16:25   the list is long so it's it's the idea [TS]

00:16:30   it as well refers to so talking words [TS]

00:16:33   out since our little world and people [TS]

00:16:34   that can roll around the minutiae and [TS]

00:16:36   you really master a subject in Johnson's [TS]

00:16:38   well yeah that's because you really have [TS]

00:16:40   nothing else going on and I thought well [TS]

00:16:41   maybe it's kind of a form of of [TS]

00:16:43   hostility where you're like oh you've [TS]

00:16:44   excluded me [TS]

00:16:45   well i'm just going to just to show you [TS]

00:16:47   i'm going to master elvish and write [TS]

00:16:49   long saugus about how much you suck in [TS]

00:16:51   elevation it is a hospital with your [TS]

00:16:53   references to or is it I mean I since [TS]

00:16:57   I've got this defensive pneus I've gotta [TS]

00:16:59   you know I've got to I've got two little [TS]

00:17:01   kids you know you get kids kids kind of [TS]

00:17:03   want to master something and and I think [TS]

00:17:05   some of it is that you know if if your [TS]

00:17:08   world is kind of not understandable you [TS]

00:17:11   know as a kid you might you might [TS]

00:17:12   memorize 13 work around it is yeah all [TS]

00:17:14   the kind of training or all the cuts [TS]

00:17:16   Star Wars cards or you know you can pick [TS]

00:17:18   it [TS]

00:17:18   it's like as a kid you don't just one [TS]

00:17:20   moment is so popular is because exact [TS]

00:17:22   yeah my pokemon so popular is because as [TS]

00:17:24   a child you can figure out okay this is [TS]

00:17:26   that classification system right this is [TS]

00:17:27   part of the world i can understand these [TS]

00:17:29   are the rules this all makes sense that [TS]

00:17:31   we can a master at this [TS]

00:17:32   yeah yeah yeah I think that's what [TS]

00:17:34   drives sort of that kind of kiki drive [TS]

00:17:36   to to do that is sort of like to make [TS]

00:17:38   save something and have some [TS]

00:17:39   understanding and control over it [TS]

00:17:41   my main problem with this whole idea of [TS]

00:17:44   geek culture is that it is somehow [TS]

00:17:46   separate from normal culture right [TS]

00:17:48   because people [TS]

00:17:50   are obsessed with a variety of things [TS]

00:17:52   well that's what also wants that's right [TS]

00:17:53   he says you know but people are geeking [TS]

00:17:54   out over that Real Housewives of Beverly [TS]

00:17:56   Hills you know that married to a [TS]

00:17:58   baseball not exact and I think you know [TS]

00:17:59   I think that so a lot of geek culture [TS]

00:18:02   depends on technology and the written [TS]

00:18:06   word which is a form of Technology right [TS]

00:18:08   and so the only reason and I'm just [TS]

00:18:10   thinking of this right now since make [TS]

00:18:11   absolutely no sense but i think the only [TS]

00:18:13   reason that Sports is not considered [TS]

00:18:16   geeky is because people have been doing [TS]

00:18:18   it for so much longer so it's just part [TS]

00:18:21   of the culture and it's okay to like [TS]

00:18:23   sports because we've been doing it since [TS]

00:18:26   humans have been you know cognizant of [TS]

00:18:28   being humans because you know you're [TS]

00:18:30   running from a tiger something that then [TS]

00:18:32   becomes a an event that's playing sports [TS]

00:18:35   not being a sports fan no I saw an [TS]

00:18:37   interview with the woman who who got in [TS]

00:18:41   the news because she wanted to wear her [TS]

00:18:42   star trek uniform too when she was on a [TS]

00:18:44   jury [TS]

00:18:45   I saw it and and what she made a point [TS]

00:18:47   that i have not been able to refute [TS]

00:18:49   which is why is it weird for me where my [TS]

00:18:51   star trek uniform but it's not weird for [TS]

00:18:52   a guy to wear a baseball team or a [TS]

00:18:54   football team uniform to a baseball game [TS]

00:18:56   and it's like well you know I think [TS]

00:18:58   she's got a point there [TS]

00:19:00   it's true that's why i'm so confused [TS]

00:19:02   like let's take baseball for example not [TS]

00:19:04   to you know ostracize any particular [TS]

00:19:06   numbers of this podcast but I think [TS]

00:19:08   baseball is probably the creepiest sport [TS]

00:19:11   oh yeah the world it is right because I [TS]

00:19:13   yeah it's absolutely it's incredibly [TS]

00:19:14   boring it's in there are people who are [TS]

00:19:17   not very athletic [TS]

00:19:19   it's like a man or get exactly and then [TS]

00:19:21   all the fans fans are obsessed with [TS]

00:19:23   statistics that you can't get geekier [TS]

00:19:25   than that [TS]

00:19:26   yeah well that's that's that's why i [TS]

00:19:28   tell it not to take a little tiny peek [TS]

00:19:31   into Lisa's private life but Lisa is a [TS]

00:19:33   member of a comic book club and you know [TS]

00:19:35   she goes cheap she will haunt local [TS]

00:19:37   comic book stores and her husband [TS]

00:19:38   couldn't know the Floyd he does now know [TS]

00:19:41   more about comic books because his wife [TS]

00:19:42   has has taught him well but not you know [TS]

00:19:45   and so you can have that moment of [TS]

00:19:47   offense it's like why there aren't that [TS]

00:19:48   many women who appreciate comics and [TS]

00:19:50   this guy he's not worth but you know her [TS]

00:19:52   Lisa's husband loves baseball and that's [TS]

00:19:54   one of the things that he does have kind [TS]

00:19:56   of geeky street just runs two different [TS]

00:19:58   things and you could argue that baseball [TS]

00:20:00   his appreciation for baseball is really [TS]

00:20:02   no different that leases [TS]

00:20:03   appreciation for comic books although [TS]

00:20:05   i'm sure he would beat me up and now I [TS]

00:20:06   told him that actually now I think we've [TS]

00:20:09   actually come to the agreement that [TS]

00:20:11   they're pretty parallel and I've also [TS]

00:20:13   known people who have managed to have [TS]

00:20:15   for lack of a better word parallel geeky [TS]

00:20:17   passions for example my brother who also [TS]

00:20:20   has a comics podcast strangely enough [TS]

00:20:22   um is a comic book fan he's also [TS]

00:20:24   classical musician he's very very [TS]

00:20:25   passionate about dr. so my brother isn't [TS]

00:20:30   it is a vagner opera teak as well as [TS]

00:20:32   being a massive geek about the flash [TS]

00:20:35   series of DC comment on how hard it [TS]

00:20:36   would be to get into that into that [TS]

00:20:38   little little circle the bogner circle [TS]

00:20:41   you say one wrong thing to the Brahms [TS]

00:20:44   installing your gods are horrible and no [TS]

00:20:48   classical music people are are just get [TS]

00:20:50   that that's a whole that's a whole [TS]

00:20:52   different game I mean yeah I i am [TS]

00:20:54   humbled world amateur now consider if [TS]

00:20:56   the class is equal [TS]

00:20:59   oh we are so so what raw what led me [TS]

00:21:02   because they think they talk about [TS]

00:21:04   things that happened in the eighteen [TS]

00:21:05   hundreds like it was yesterday [TS]

00:21:06   it's amazing it's a fascinating [TS]

00:21:08   subculture one of the things that Patton [TS]

00:21:10   Oswalt talks about that i think i think [TS]

00:21:12   is an interesting point which is you [TS]

00:21:15   know when you're in [TS]

00:21:16   I mean we all we grew up in very [TS]

00:21:17   different environments and you know East [TS]

00:21:19   Coast and West Coast and big cities and [TS]

00:21:21   small towns and but one thing that the [TS]

00:21:25   Internet has done is eliminated the [TS]

00:21:28   sense that you are the only or one of a [TS]

00:21:31   small group of people who who is [TS]

00:21:33   interested in anything right there [TS]

00:21:37   what used to be it's just me or it's [TS]

00:21:39   just two or three people you go on the [TS]

00:21:41   internet now and you realize it's not [TS]

00:21:42   just you it's you and like a thousand or [TS]

00:21:45   ten thousand other people which you know [TS]

00:21:48   I I do feel like Oswalt's right when he [TS]

00:21:50   says you know will never again have that [TS]

00:21:52   feeling of kind of like near isolation [TS]

00:21:54   that I discovered this thing because now [TS]

00:21:56   you can go out there and get the faq [TS]

00:21:58   that tells you everything you need to [TS]

00:21:59   know about that thing and a mailing list [TS]

00:22:02   that's got 10,000 people on that [TS]

00:22:04   isolation is a bad thing though I agree [TS]

00:22:06   the isolation is bad i mean that that's [TS]

00:22:08   what spawned those groups that are so [TS]

00:22:09   hostile to outsiders because if you go [TS]

00:22:11   through that experience where where it's [TS]

00:22:13   where you're ostracized in high school [TS]

00:22:15   and [TS]

00:22:15   you have and you get a chip on your [TS]

00:22:17   shoulder that when you finally meet up [TS]

00:22:18   with more like people in college you'd [TS]

00:22:21   be more inclined to make an exclusive [TS]

00:22:23   group that is hostile to outsiders and [TS]

00:22:25   so on and so forth I think the Internet [TS]

00:22:26   is breeding a that's why did you hear ya [TS]

00:22:29   series of geeks I think the geeks [TS]

00:22:31   they're growing up today i have the [TS]

00:22:32   benefit of not having that horrible [TS]

00:22:34   experience because they don't have they [TS]

00:22:36   could never even imagine that there [TS]

00:22:38   alone and that by the time they get [TS]

00:22:40   older they won't have that you know sort [TS]

00:22:41   of chip on their shoulders they want to [TS]

00:22:43   seek out revenge or exclude people the [TS]

00:22:45   way they were excluded and that's why I [TS]

00:22:46   think you see geek culture spreading so [TS]

00:22:47   much because people who are growing up [TS]

00:22:49   in the age of the Internet don't have [TS]

00:22:50   these problems and it becomes more [TS]

00:22:52   normal everybody plays video games of if [TS]

00:22:54   we have I should put in the show notes [TS]

00:22:55   for this the penny arcade strip was it [TS]

00:22:58   way back 2001 where they did a strip [TS]

00:23:00   about adds to the original playstation [TS]

00:23:01   and the ads were advertising to [TS]

00:23:04   basically look like you know a hip [TS]

00:23:07   happening good looking teenagers the [TS]

00:23:08   people that who actual video gamers [TS]

00:23:10   hated and that's Tony was advertising to [TS]

00:23:12   me the games were going mainstream and [TS]

00:23:14   they have a problem that's what like [TS]

00:23:15   wait a second these guys weren't you [TS]

00:23:17   know playing nes in the basement with me [TS]

00:23:19   they were out playing football why do [TS]

00:23:20   they get to be part of games well that [TS]

00:23:22   sort of democratization of geek culture [TS]

00:23:26   I think we'll it is as a result of it [TS]

00:23:30   becoming clear that this is not you know [TS]

00:23:32   and just think it's kind of like when [TS]

00:23:34   you have all these little islands of [TS]

00:23:35   people who are you know if their own [TS]

00:23:37   geeks in their own high schools they [TS]

00:23:38   could imagine that they were the only [TS]

00:23:39   ones but once you start connecting those [TS]

00:23:41   people they sort of like a look around [TS]

00:23:43   and see each other and rise up you know [TS]

00:23:45   it's like a rebel forces kept separate [TS]

00:23:47   once they're joined together you know [TS]

00:23:48   they cannot go here and do something as [TS]

00:23:50   a group bicker amongst each other [TS]

00:23:53   yeah well you know that that's part of [TS]

00:23:55   it but that's I mean people arguing [TS]

00:23:56   about you know jets vs giants or [TS]

00:23:58   whatever you know in your high school [TS]

00:23:59   the entire time you're there sports [TS]

00:24:01   teams constant struggle that but no one [TS]

00:24:03   is arguing over you know a DD vs AD&D [TS]

00:24:05   except for you and your two friends [TS]

00:24:07   right yeah well not my high school but I [TS]

00:24:09   went to an incredibly key high school so [TS]

00:24:11   yeah they really thought I was gonna say [TS]

00:24:13   that the beginning really does depend on [TS]

00:24:15   where you've grown up because I've [TS]

00:24:15   talked to a lot of people and the [TS]

00:24:17   experience varies wildly some people go [TS]

00:24:19   to like you know schools for gifted [TS]

00:24:21   children where everybody's playing D&D [TS]

00:24:22   and you know it's it's not a big deal [TS]

00:24:24   and something that other people like [TS]

00:24:26   they're the one guy in Idaho [TS]

00:24:27   who's ever heard of dnd and I i was i [TS]

00:24:30   was saying as I was listening to our our [TS]

00:24:31   role playing podcast that that I I was [TS]

00:24:34   the guy who had all the books and stuff [TS]

00:24:37   and could never get a game together [TS]

00:24:38   because there weren't enough people that [TS]

00:24:40   are not enough people in your entire [TS]

00:24:41   school see it honestly never occurred to [TS]

00:24:44   me the DVD was nerdy and the reason is i [TS]

00:24:47   know that i wanted you or did you grow [TS]

00:24:50   up xavier school for the gifted no [TS]

00:24:52   actually no it's the it's the US Navy [TS]

00:24:55   because my dad brought dnd into the [TS]

00:24:57   house and my dad used to go out on [TS]

00:24:59   nuclear subs because he was he worked as [TS]

00:25:02   a songwriter engineer and so he would go [TS]

00:25:04   out nuclear subs and dulce trials for [TS]

00:25:06   weeks at a time and dnd was actually a [TS]

00:25:09   huge among Navy submarine crews and then [TS]

00:25:12   it worked its way to the defense [TS]

00:25:13   contractor for the defense contractor [TS]

00:25:15   workforce and they brought home to their [TS]

00:25:16   families and when I grew up and so when [TS]

00:25:19   I was in Middle School my dad help me [TS]

00:25:21   roll a couple characters and he'd have [TS]

00:25:22   me play with the guys in the Navy and he [TS]

00:25:24   would play my character for me on lunch [TS]

00:25:25   breaks and I never thought of it as [TS]

00:25:27   nerdy I just thought it was it was [TS]

00:25:29   something that people just did and it [TS]

00:25:31   was it wasn't until you can i switched [TS]

00:25:33   high schools that i realized that no [TS]

00:25:34   this is actually considered kind of [TS]

00:25:36   weird [TS]

00:25:36   oh and this is why all new nuclear [TS]

00:25:39   submarines are equipped with magic [TS]

00:25:40   missiles [TS]

00:25:41   thank ya good this is why there's a [TS]

00:25:45   paladin of every crew but when you think [TS]

00:25:49   about it it's I don't know if tsr [TS]

00:25:51   actually went after the submarine [TS]

00:25:52   audience or if it was like a happy [TS]

00:25:54   accident [TS]

00:25:54   mark no I don't think that was part of [TS]

00:25:56   their marketing plan submarine I can't [TS]

00:25:58   Cruise that's where we have to [TS]

00:25:59   concentrate [TS]

00:26:00   I i watch two things that they did it [TS]

00:26:02   should because honestly because honestly [TS]

00:26:05   it should have been you've got a group [TS]

00:26:06   of people who are underwater for three [TS]

00:26:08   to six months out of the year active [TS]

00:26:09   audience all men they got a big market [TS]

00:26:11   they'll really you know they'll already [TS]

00:26:13   love it they are already loving her well [TS]

00:26:14   family with ranking capriciousness as so [TS]

00:26:17   you know why not give them the cake pops [TS]

00:26:19   and work on that I mean because it gets [TS]

00:26:22   boring down there and these guys like [TS]

00:26:24   being able to have the the games that [TS]

00:26:26   both instructions provided the room for [TS]

00:26:27   improvisation it's like it was like a [TS]

00:26:29   perfect marriage of a entertainment [TS]

00:26:31   audience i do think that the that the [TS]

00:26:35   the democratization of geek culture is a [TS]

00:26:37   good thing I mean you look at something [TS]

00:26:38   like comic-con [TS]

00:26:39   that began as as a very niche thing and [TS]

00:26:42   you know what is comic-con now I want [TS]

00:26:44   first time she okay yeah well for the [TS]

00:26:46   first time last year and it's it's you [TS]

00:26:48   know a little bit on the geeky side and [TS]

00:26:49   you still got your your areas that are [TS]

00:26:51   comics focus but you know they're there [TS]

00:26:53   are people cast members from TV shows [TS]

00:26:55   that have no even remote connection to [TS]

00:26:58   get culture who were there and and but i [TS]

00:27:01   think it's a good thing that the fact [TS]

00:27:03   that the entertainment weekly does [TS]

00:27:04   stories about things that are happening [TS]

00:27:05   in comics you know the fact is star wars [TS]

00:27:09   changed I think the way our culture [TS]

00:27:13   views science fiction we can argue about [TS]

00:27:15   the the pros and cons of Star Wars Star [TS]

00:27:18   Wars isn't like serious science fiction [TS]

00:27:19   that you read a novel but the fact is [TS]

00:27:21   now every summer blockbuster basically [TS]

00:27:24   is sci-fi or or a superhero or fantasy [TS]

00:27:29   or something like that and and it's [TS]

00:27:32   changed the way that the general culture [TS]

00:27:34   of use those kind of stories it's no [TS]

00:27:35   longer you know it's not to say [TS]

00:27:38   everybody's rushing out and buying [TS]

00:27:39   serious sci-fi novels but it's it's [TS]

00:27:42   changed you know it's changed the way we [TS]

00:27:44   view that kind of genre because it's [TS]

00:27:46   then it is the genre 44 film if not for [TS]

00:27:49   TV and books it is for film i wonder how [TS]

00:27:52   much that has to do with what we're [TS]

00:27:55   still grappling with the fact that the [TS]

00:27:57   American frontier is closed in a way [TS]

00:27:59   because when you think about it if you [TS]

00:28:03   look at the trajectory of of popular [TS]

00:28:05   attitudes over the 20th century at the [TS]

00:28:06   very beginning of the 20th century one [TS]

00:28:08   of the American identity crisis was the [TS]

00:28:10   fact that there were no more territories [TS]

00:28:12   to homestead and and the frontier was [TS]

00:28:14   closed we hit the Pacific you know [TS]

00:28:16   Alaska most was already more Alaska was [TS]

00:28:20   basically the end of the line as it were [TS]

00:28:21   and there was a wave of popular culture [TS]

00:28:24   that lasted throughout the [TS]

00:28:25   nineteen-thirties where people were [TS]

00:28:26   trying to figure out what it meant is [TS]

00:28:28   the country once you literally ran out [TS]

00:28:30   of room to explore [TS]

00:28:31   and in a way outer space especially from [TS]

00:28:35   the fifties on outer space provided a [TS]

00:28:37   way for us to take that urge for [TS]

00:28:40   frontier exploration and conquest and [TS]

00:28:42   cast a wider and I wonder how much of [TS]

00:28:45   that we're still feeling because we're [TS]

00:28:47   such a small and interconnected world [TS]

00:28:49   right now thanks to the internet and it [TS]

00:28:51   does feel like it's a it does feel like [TS]

00:28:53   a tiny planet in many ways I mean we can [TS]

00:28:55   all look at protests going on in Libya [TS]

00:28:57   in ways that would have been just a [TS]

00:29:00   5-minute sniff it on the news even 20 [TS]

00:29:01   years ago and so because the world feel [TS]

00:29:03   small and it feels very easy to master [TS]

00:29:06   maybe we're all looking again we're [TS]

00:29:08   casting RI outward because we also have [TS]

00:29:10   that urge for exploration frontiers and [TS]

00:29:12   the idea that you can hop on a spaceship [TS]

00:29:13   and find something else is tremendously [TS]

00:29:15   appealing I'd be as some adventure and [TS]

00:29:17   plus explosions the advance of [TS]

00:29:19   technology to help with that because [TS]

00:29:21   before you had Cowboys right because i [TS]

00:29:24   was technology and then you had jungle [TS]

00:29:25   adventures exploring africa right but as [TS]

00:29:27   soon as we got more technology that you [TS]

00:29:30   went right from the cowboy becomes the [TS]

00:29:32   jungle adventure becomes the astronaut [TS]

00:29:34   it's just the view the vehicle they ride [TS]

00:29:36   on the tools they used to do their job [TS]

00:29:38   but it's also one exploring so i don't [TS]

00:29:40   know if it turned as geeky as it just [TS]

00:29:42   the thing the geeks were into like if [TS]

00:29:44   you're if you're a kid you know decades [TS]

00:29:46   ago you would be into Roy Rogers because [TS]

00:29:49   Cowboys were the best guys or maybe [TS]

00:29:51   you'd be into you know that the British [TS]

00:29:52   explorers exploring you know the lost [TS]

00:29:54   continent in the jungles of africa but [TS]

00:29:57   that as soon as someone gets on a rocket [TS]

00:29:59   thats it thats you know did all those [TS]

00:30:00   kids just switch immediately from the [TS]

00:30:02   jungle Explorer from the cowboy to this [TS]

00:30:04   and then ended but now it changes honors [TS]

00:30:06   now it's sci-fi right now it's not your [TS]

00:30:08   cowboys warrants I fibers they were real [TS]

00:30:10   cowboys and jungle explorers were even [TS]

00:30:12   though the jungle explorers you know [TS]

00:30:13   we're always finding dinosaurs or [TS]

00:30:14   whatever that was [TS]

00:30:15   you didn't call it science fiction then [TS]

00:30:17   but it was just detected you sprinkle [TS]

00:30:19   technology on and people think it [TS]

00:30:20   changes into a different thing but it's [TS]

00:30:21   exactly the same story is you know the [TS]

00:30:23   kids fantasizing about nights in the [TS]

00:30:25   Middle Ages and it's the same thing but [TS]

00:30:26   they're all of the stories that you [TS]

00:30:28   mentioned have this element of I've left [TS]

00:30:30   the structures of society and I am free [TS]

00:30:33   to write my own narrative and to blaze a [TS]

00:30:35   path that other people will have to [TS]

00:30:37   follow and it's just like you said the [TS]

00:30:39   technology's changed there's a pretty [TS]

00:30:41   telling moment up when you think about [TS]

00:30:43   it because that is a whole lot [TS]

00:30:45   I'm going to explore the jungle and i'm [TS]

00:30:46   going to discover new species and boy [TS]

00:30:48   won't people be impressed when I bring [TS]

00:30:50   it back and if that's not a form of [TS]

00:30:53   geekery which has the element of boy [TS]

00:30:55   won't be people be impressed by my [TS]

00:30:57   mastery because there is some of that [TS]

00:30:59   you know it all goes back to [TS]

00:31:01   seven-year-olds want to make sense of [TS]

00:31:02   the planet goes back to geeks who want [TS]

00:31:05   to set up a hierarchy of you-know-who [TS]

00:31:06   who is the the quite solid rock of you [TS]

00:31:10   know the local high school and all goes [TS]

00:31:13   back to you boy you'll all be sorry I'm [TS]

00:31:16   happy I'll show you you know this world [TS]

00:31:19   has nothing for me i will dream of other [TS]

00:31:21   worlds that are ya [TS]

00:31:23   they called me mad at the academy and [TS]

00:31:25   saviors Academy plus uplands who I did [TS]

00:31:30   grow up in West Chester's you did grow [TS]

00:31:33   up in Westchester well I did you ever [TS]

00:31:34   run into kitty pryde how she doing she [TS]

00:31:37   ran through me [TS]

00:31:39   haha oh haha got me actually gone to [TS]

00:31:44   that school from what i heard of his [TS]

00:31:45   childhood where everyone's playing D&D [TS]

00:31:47   and they're all you know just geeking [TS]

00:31:48   out 24 hours Dave that's right it was it [TS]

00:31:51   was paradise my Mutant want to know what [TS]

00:31:54   his power was it was it wasn't one of it [TS]

00:31:56   one of things when I think back to the [TS]

00:31:59   stuff i was interested in high school [TS]

00:32:01   and that sort of experience I actually [TS]

00:32:03   think the thing that amazes me now is [TS]

00:32:06   that these things are celebrated in ways [TS]

00:32:09   that i didn't realize that I think that [TS]

00:32:10   I think that's true it has to do with [TS]

00:32:13   feeling at the time like maybe there [TS]

00:32:16   were some people who are interested in [TS]

00:32:17   the stuff but basically it was just me [TS]

00:32:19   and there was it was sort of that [TS]

00:32:20   feeling of isolation like God why does [TS]

00:32:22   nobody else care about this stuff and [TS]

00:32:25   and you look at it now and like that you [TS]

00:32:26   know what there's that the weezer song [TS]

00:32:28   in the garage which is basically like [TS]

00:32:31   taking off all the boxes of everything [TS]

00:32:33   that's a key person in me in the [TS]

00:32:35   seventies or eighties would be into you [TS]

00:32:38   know and and you know they bring back [TS]

00:32:39   doctor who and break I I they're like [TS]

00:32:43   regular people who are like oh I love [TS]

00:32:44   the new doctor who was like the new [TS]

00:32:46   Doctor Who well let me tell you but they [TS]

00:32:48   don't know it's a new doctor who they [TS]

00:32:49   don't know they don't they just think [TS]

00:32:51   it's doctor who is make sure it's on [TS]

00:32:52   I tried to explain to my mother that it [TS]

00:32:54   was on the sixties I blew her mind [TS]

00:32:56   yeah William Hartnell yes it came on [TS]

00:32:58   right after the Kennedy assassination [TS]

00:32:59   said no this is the new show i just [TS]

00:33:01   started watching [TS]

00:33:02   oh yeah so but now so that that's the [TS]

00:33:05   thing that kind of amazing and I'm [TS]

00:33:06   heartened by that I i I'm I'm i think [TS]

00:33:10   it's great that these are things that [TS]

00:33:12   because the bottom line for me was that [TS]

00:33:14   i'll appreciate those kinds of stories [TS]

00:33:15   and those kind of worlds and actually [TS]

00:33:18   sort of felt sad that more people didn't [TS]

00:33:21   like them because they were so [TS]

00:33:22   interesting and cool and why would you [TS]

00:33:24   like them and one of the nice things [TS]

00:33:25   about being in a connected world like we [TS]

00:33:27   are is that you can see that other [TS]

00:33:29   people not only do you find other people [TS]

00:33:31   who like them but I think it also [TS]

00:33:32   disseminates more and people who [TS]

00:33:34   wouldn't you know be into it my wife [TS]

00:33:35   wasn't into sci-fi or anything like that [TS]

00:33:37   but but she loves some of the sci-fi TV [TS]

00:33:39   and Doctor Who and things like that and [TS]

00:33:41   it's like you know ya see it is good it [TS]

00:33:43   is really I wasn't wrong i was a great [TS]

00:33:45   actually kind of a reverse effect [TS]

00:33:47   because you say like why weren't those [TS]

00:33:48   people into scifi like i said before i [TS]

00:33:50   don't think it's because that they [TS]

00:33:51   didn't like spaceships and didn't like [TS]

00:33:53   lightsaber stores or how about I think [TS]

00:33:55   it's because the that subject matter [TS]

00:33:57   became linked with the people who are [TS]

00:33:59   bad at high school and you didn't want [TS]

00:34:02   to associate with those people and then [TS]

00:34:03   you for you even though you watch Star [TS]

00:34:04   Wars a lot and you loved it [TS]

00:34:06   you're not going to wear the Star Wars [TS]

00:34:08   shirt to school or admit that you really [TS]

00:34:10   like Star Wars you may like it even more [TS]

00:34:11   than that geeky guy just because you [TS]

00:34:13   know that would push you down and social [TS]

00:34:15   standing and and that's why all these [TS]

00:34:18   people didn't like it did you say bad at [TS]

00:34:20   high school [TS]

00:34:21   yes I've actually been surprised by how [TS]

00:34:23   many of my girlfriend's her sister who [TS]

00:34:24   were so former sorority sisters [TS]

00:34:26   I've been surprised at how many of them [TS]

00:34:27   are completely fluent Star Trek The Next [TS]

00:34:29   Generation like I know a lot of women [TS]

00:34:31   who know that show inside and out who [TS]

00:34:33   are like the were the last people you [TS]

00:34:34   think of his geeky and yet they can [TS]

00:34:37   discourse at length on different [TS]

00:34:39   Starfleet captains and rank them in [TS]

00:34:40   order of preference and it's just it's [TS]

00:34:42   delightful you know without that was one [TS]

00:34:45   of my that was one of those those [TS]

00:34:46   moments where I realized that that that [TS]

00:34:48   geekiness was not was not a lonely [TS]

00:34:51   pursuit anymore was that in college we [TS]

00:34:54   had groups of people who watch I [TS]

00:34:56   remember I remember going to basically a [TS]

00:34:58   party for the Deep Space nine Premier [TS]

00:35:00   where they were like 21 when hero land [TS]

00:35:03   and it was like more than half women and [TS]

00:35:06   everybody's like cheering about [TS]

00:35:07   you-know-what Picard appears his cameo [TS]

00:35:09   or whatever and that was when I realized [TS]

00:35:12   wow this is not you know me in my room [TS]

00:35:14   by myself watching Star Trek this is [TS]

00:35:17   life everything happens uniform in my [TS]

00:35:19   well he never had a captain's uniform [TS]

00:35:21   sadly but my parents did by me and [TS]

00:35:23   enterprise from the Franklin Mint who [TS]

00:35:25   which i still have when I was a grad [TS]

00:35:28   school I shared a house with six other [TS]

00:35:29   people and two of them were going [TS]

00:35:31   through the MBA program and they were [TS]

00:35:32   also heading up the rowing team on the [TS]

00:35:35   MBA program so you're talking about two [TS]

00:35:37   incredibly athletic very specific [TS]

00:35:38   stereotypical beast be school students [TS]

00:35:40   and there was a math PhD who is kind of [TS]

00:35:43   not really living in this world because [TS]

00:35:45   he was living in his beautiful numbers [TS]

00:35:46   planet and an architect and engineer and [TS]

00:35:50   a recent Russian me great and I and we [TS]

00:35:53   would get together every Sunday night [TS]

00:35:55   and watch Star Trek The Next Generation [TS]

00:35:56   to get it was like this big family [TS]

00:35:58   dinner type thing we cook for each other [TS]

00:35:59   and sit down and bear in mind we barely [TS]

00:36:01   had two things to say to each other the [TS]

00:36:02   rest of the week but every Sunday night [TS]

00:36:05   come hell or high water all of us were [TS]

00:36:06   sitting in that living room with our [TS]

00:36:07   plates balance in our laps talking all [TS]

00:36:09   the way through the show and watching it [TS]

00:36:11   was just this really social experience [TS]

00:36:12   exaggerated was a was a real it was the [TS]

00:36:16   perfect show for that and it was really [TS]

00:36:17   had a broadening effect of you know [TS]

00:36:20   because people star trek permeated the [TS]

00:36:21   culture a lot with the that the reruns [TS]

00:36:23   have been out there for all that time [TS]

00:36:24   and kids have grown up with them and [TS]

00:36:26   then there were the movies and it was [TS]

00:36:27   the way the show was done you know it [TS]

00:36:29   was it wasn't really heavily serialize [TS]

00:36:31   it was really pretty accessible the [TS]

00:36:33   characters where you could get the [TS]

00:36:34   characters and it was a good show and I [TS]

00:36:35   think you put all those things together [TS]

00:36:37   and end and a lot of people even now you [TS]

00:36:41   mentioned Star Trek The Next Generation [TS]

00:36:42   and people are like oh yeah they can't [TS]

00:36:44   take off episodes and it's kind of [TS]

00:36:46   amazing how broad that show ended up [TS]

00:36:47   being a bronze reach was oh yeah but [TS]

00:36:51   that isn't isn't the difference between [TS]

00:36:52   so and i don't know if this turn up i [TS]

00:36:55   think it's an artificial difference but [TS]

00:36:56   he patent as well as making a difference [TS]

00:36:59   between pop culture and geek culture [TS]

00:37:00   right i think the only difference is [TS]

00:37:03   that of how deep you go into something [TS]

00:37:06   right so you can be you can enjoy Star [TS]

00:37:09   Trek and that maybe a geeky thing unto [TS]

00:37:12   itself but I don't think liking star [TS]

00:37:14   trek is Kiki but [TS]

00:37:15   really like I have behind me 6,000 star [TS]

00:37:20   trek the collectible card game cards [TS]

00:37:22   that is kinky so if i said to you well [TS]

00:37:25   you know not only do i liked the episode [TS]

00:37:27   where the card is trapped on the alien [TS]

00:37:29   planet with the other captain but then i [TS]

00:37:32   say well it's Darmok it's like okay [TS]

00:37:34   that's another level and I say well you [TS]

00:37:35   know the alien captain was played by [TS]

00:37:37   paul winfield who also played the [TS]

00:37:38   captain of the reliant and start to the [TS]

00:37:40   wrath of khan i said and i already knew [TS]

00:37:42   that so we heard around the whole [TS]

00:37:44   example and written by German oski who [TS]

00:37:46   ended up being a producer and star trek [TS]

00:37:48   voyager which was not a very good show [TS]

00:37:49   by the way but other limits because what [TS]

00:37:51   you're talking about these different [TS]

00:37:52   levels of involvement but if it's [TS]

00:37:54   Twilight we're talking about where [TS]

00:37:55   there's somebody who's gone through [TS]

00:37:57   harry potter right and one of the one of [TS]

00:38:00   the recurring members of our little [TS]

00:38:01   podcast crew here wrote Harry Potter [TS]

00:38:03   fanfiction I mean that's not her prop [TS]

00:38:05   Potter is a passive mainstream success [TS]

00:38:07   twilight is a massive success but [TS]

00:38:09   there's a major amount of geekery the [TS]

00:38:11   gloves on but the thing is up and maybe [TS]

00:38:13   hearing groping toward a unified theory [TS]

00:38:15   one of the things about decrease i'll [TS]

00:38:17   cut always comes back to it seems like [TS]

00:38:19   the subject that tend to attract geeks [TS]

00:38:20   tend to have incredibly consistent [TS]

00:38:22   internal rules in order and if you take [TS]

00:38:25   a look at harry potter you're talking [TS]

00:38:26   about a woman who filled up notebooks [TS]

00:38:27   and spend about 10 years thinking about [TS]

00:38:29   this university ahead while she was [TS]

00:38:30   riding it and has spread spreadsheets [TS]

00:38:33   for God's sake where she brought out [TS]

00:38:35   chronology of people's genealogies and [TS]

00:38:37   what happened after the books and things [TS]

00:38:39   like that so she had this universe with [TS]

00:38:41   incredibly consistent internal histories [TS]

00:38:43   and rules and I think for for geeks be [TS]

00:38:47   able to decode that and saying I [TS]

00:38:48   understand the universe was created by [TS]

00:38:50   somebody else is is part of the appeal [TS]

00:38:51   so what I'm wondering is if you can say [TS]

00:38:54   well this person is really to twilight [TS]

00:38:55   but they're never ever gonna be geeky [TS]

00:38:56   about twilight because it doesn't have [TS]

00:38:57   the same baseline get criteria of a [TS]

00:39:00   complicated internal system that can [TS]

00:39:02   still be grasped by outsiders or it [TS]

00:39:04   doesn't have the same you know [TS]

00:39:07   entry-level code phrases or or knowledge [TS]

00:39:10   that that people exchange to figure out [TS]

00:39:13   who's in and who's not [TS]

00:39:14   I basically want to have some things are [TS]

00:39:16   just never going to be key no matter [TS]

00:39:17   your level of engagement is 22 yeah well [TS]

00:39:20   this is the same twilight is a shallow [TS]

00:39:22   book series and i'll agree [TS]

00:39:24   how's that just think this statement is [TS]

00:39:26   there any world building and then [TS]

00:39:28   writing like you know a trashy teenage [TS]

00:39:30   romance vampire book [TS]

00:39:31   yeah there's only you can only dig so [TS]

00:39:33   deep that you hit the bottom of the [TS]

00:39:35   things right and so that if this depth [TS]

00:39:37   then you can get into it so don't bring [TS]

00:39:39   ski career away maybe I mean just think [TS]

00:39:41   of it we're talking about like you know [TS]

00:39:42   if you are the star trek casual start [TS]

00:39:45   water or the star trek geek sports is [TS]

00:39:47   the best example because everybody some [TS]

00:39:49   kind of sports fan like it just vaguely [TS]

00:39:50   Oh pick a team from your hometown I'm a [TS]

00:39:52   Red Sox fan or whatever but that goes so [TS]

00:39:54   deep in terms of like can you name the [TS]

00:39:56   RAS of the of the last 27 starting [TS]

00:39:59   pictures of your favorite team people [TS]

00:40:00   can rattle that like that rabbit hole [TS]

00:40:02   goes way down farther than you know [TS]

00:40:04   Perry potter father even talking [TS]

00:40:05   anything like that because sports has [TS]

00:40:07   been around forever in there so much to [TS]

00:40:09   know I don't know about to further the [TS]

00:40:11   dumb and Tolkien actually well you do [TS]

00:40:13   that said that hold still pretty forward [TS]

00:40:15   to think about how many years have you [TS]

00:40:17   been playing baseball in this country [TS]

00:40:18   and how many stats there are in every [TS]

00:40:20   single one of those players and [TS]

00:40:21   screaming like a management moves and [TS]

00:40:23   trades and just like there's just [TS]

00:40:25   there's just too many numbers on it so [TS]

00:40:26   much it's not just the numbers to John [TS]

00:40:28   it with baseball you've got the there's [TS]

00:40:30   like the society for american baseball [TS]

00:40:31   research and there's this group called [TS]

00:40:32   retro see retro sheet and they actually [TS]

00:40:34   do things like pull out the microfilm [TS]

00:40:36   from newspapers from the eighteen [TS]

00:40:39   hundreds and and piece together [TS]

00:40:42   play-by-play of games that didn't have [TS]

00:40:46   modern box scores and everything so it's [TS]

00:40:48   so it's yeah you can't just make stuff [TS]

00:40:50   up they have to go off reality talking [TS]

00:40:52   at least could do world-building any [TS]

00:40:53   just make stuff like they they're saying [TS]

00:40:55   we've got hundreds of years of actual [TS]

00:40:57   history of every single out and every [TS]

00:40:58   single game and every single player and [TS]

00:41:00   what they did and what you can know [TS]

00:41:01   about them in the drama's between the [TS]

00:41:03   teams and moving teams from states [TS]

00:41:04   there's no fanfic and baseball they [TS]

00:41:07   realize fantasy baseball you know this [TS]

00:41:09   no I want to grab these people from this [TS]

00:41:12   team and put the Great's of every error [TS]

00:41:14   combined but you know there was no [TS]

00:41:15   designated hitter but the pictures are [TS]

00:41:17   allowed to use tools that makes it that [TS]

00:41:19   makes a really great point because while [TS]

00:41:20   I've been sitting here detailing off [TS]

00:41:22   ways which I was an incredibly geeky [TS]

00:41:24   person in high school which I'm sure [TS]

00:41:26   comes as no surprise to anybody [TS]

00:41:27   one of the other things that I did in [TS]

00:41:30   high school was I was in a dice baseball [TS]

00:41:32   league and we played we have a league we [TS]

00:41:34   have players it was based on a game [TS]

00:41:37   called sports illustrated baseball [TS]

00:41:38   but it was all you had little player [TS]

00:41:39   cards and you had died so i didn't have [TS]

00:41:41   dnd but I had fake baseball and we would [TS]

00:41:43   play at lunchtime and we will play [TS]

00:41:45   baseball games and so that was a sports [TS]

00:41:47   geeky thing but if you took the sports [TS]

00:41:49   part out of it why couldn't it have been [TS]

00:41:50   does the Dragons except i was Babe Ruth [TS]

00:41:53   instead of you know paladin with my plus [TS]

00:41:56   2 sword now you'll find that the group [TS]

00:41:58   the rule set is very flexible you can [TS]

00:42:01   apply it to baseball easily excellent [TS]

00:42:04   driver to make a saving throw to catch [TS]

00:42:06   the the line drive [TS]

00:42:07   I'm sure someone has made a role-playing [TS]

00:42:09   game based on baseball collectible card [TS]

00:42:12   game it's true [TS]

00:42:13   google google it but if I google it [TS]

00:42:16   patton oswalt will be mad at me all the [TS]

00:42:18   potential baseball cards of course [TS]

00:42:20   you've cracked the otaku how dare you [TS]

00:42:22   break into their perfect seal world [TS]

00:42:24   yeah I don't know I I can come back that [TS]

00:42:26   I know how seriously i can take any of [TS]

00:42:27   that because 50-percent through the [TS]

00:42:29   article goes off into just a comedy [TS]

00:42:31   routine [TS]

00:42:31   yes so happy so can you take the first [TS]

00:42:33   part seriously at all it's almost like [TS]

00:42:35   just like this elaborate setup you know [TS]

00:42:37   I think that was an interesting question [TS]

00:42:39   even if he's not entirely taking it [TS]

00:42:41   seriously right i mean that the i was [TS]

00:42:43   fascinated by the idea that you know our [TS]

00:42:44   our our geeky things geeky because [TS]

00:42:46   nobody cares about them you know or not [TS]

00:42:49   and it hasn't been as the internet [TS]

00:42:50   ruined being a geek which I don't think [TS]

00:42:52   is true but i think it's an interesting [TS]

00:42:54   question the whole article can see it [TS]

00:42:55   could be summed up with get off my lawn [TS]

00:42:56   right you did anybody has any key didn't [TS]

00:43:01   commit to that it's more like a troll [TS]

00:43:03   it's like make something that I know [TS]

00:43:04   will get people riled up because i [TS]

00:43:05   myself don't agree with it and then [TS]

00:43:07   continue on to my comedy routine its its [TS]

00:43:09   its form like a pretty classic internet [TS]

00:43:12   troll anywhere i just don't get the [TS]

00:43:13   feeling that he believes any of it but [TS]

00:43:15   he says ridiculous controversial things [TS]

00:43:17   that will get people riled up and then [TS]

00:43:18   just never minus the comedy routine so [TS]

00:43:20   John zombie spaceship or wasteland [TS]

00:43:22   yeah that is my question here we have to [TS]

00:43:24   go around the room I you know you should [TS]

00:43:25   know which one I am apocalypse [TS]

00:43:27   understand so you're on the team that [TS]

00:43:29   did the territory of the pyro everyone [TS]

00:43:31   but me most is have you read the road [TS]

00:43:34   speaking of mainstream posted it could [TS]

00:43:36   be argued as being shandra the road is a [TS]

00:43:38   great great book it dark [TS]

00:43:40   whoo boy it but I love it but you know [TS]

00:43:43   that's a mainstream that was an open [TS]

00:43:44   book club selection book that is in it [TS]

00:43:46   you cannot say that it's not you know [TS]

00:43:49   science fiction essentially writer or [TS]

00:43:51   of that kind of thing right now it could [TS]

00:43:54   have used some quote characters i [TS]

00:43:56   thought well Cormac McCarthy rights in [TS]

00:43:59   the way that he writes he doesn't know [TS]

00:44:00   comment that got an open little club [TS]

00:44:02   because they don't dwell on the science [TS]

00:44:04   fiction topic and it's more of a [TS]

00:44:05   character study and that stuff is this [TS]

00:44:07   background so it gets wise people is [TS]

00:44:09   people radar because they're not [TS]

00:44:10   interested in what happened to the world [TS]

00:44:11   where is the sci-fi fan like if you want [TS]

00:44:14   to tell me about the world now i will [TS]

00:44:15   accept the chapter of exposition but it [TS]

00:44:17   never comes [TS]

00:44:18   if I was ok with I mean I i love that it [TS]

00:44:20   was just in a different world are you [TS]

00:44:21   know I like to understanding that we [TS]

00:44:23   have a high tolerance for that type of [TS]

00:44:24   thing whereas over the book club who [TS]

00:44:26   just wants to you know see the wrenching [TS]

00:44:28   human drama happens you know Dan more'n [TS]

00:44:30   because we have to mention him even if [TS]

00:44:31   he has another podcast he's written two [TS]

00:44:33   books of a I think trilogy hopefully [TS]

00:44:35   Oprah fanfiction that our witness that [TS]

00:44:37   are open fanfic city has gonna admit the [TS]

00:44:41   restaurant the post-apocalyptic [TS]

00:44:42   landscape yeah it's over and the [TS]

00:44:44   post-apocalypse tears are real future [TS]

00:44:46   don't kid yourself that's right it's [TS]

00:44:48   Oprah why we overthrow Oprah and create [TS]

00:44:50   the apocalypse that's how that happens [TS]

00:44:52   but no dance written a couple novels [TS]

00:44:53   that are in an apocalyptic wasteland so [TS]

00:44:55   you should heat you see you feel well [TS]

00:44:57   he'll let you look at him [TS]

00:44:58   although being hypocritical you might [TS]

00:45:00   you might be afraid I've asked a few [TS]

00:45:02   times he doesn't want ah ok fair enough [TS]

00:45:04   just for you Scott yeah there's a couple [TS]

00:45:07   people but yeah yeah I feel honored that [TS]

00:45:09   saw zombie spaceship wasteland Scott did [TS]

00:45:12   you just call me Zod me I mean before I [TS]

00:45:17   i think it's obviously i am a spaceship [TS]

00:45:20   you are a spaceship [TS]

00:45:22   I have a spaceship come aboard the [TS]

00:45:25   feeling I was gonna put you on an [TS]

00:45:26   apocalypse after all your tales of anti [TS]

00:45:29   social gaming behavior with geeks but [TS]

00:45:31   maybe that's just one aspect of your [TS]

00:45:33   life that I am I am only that mean when [TS]

00:45:36   I am Adi app or a player I guess play or [TS]

00:45:41   doing anything in my life [TS]

00:45:43   really it's a spaceship spaceship [TS]

00:45:44   faraway places and adventures on world's [TS]

00:45:48   not before seeing i guess i don't know i [TS]

00:45:50   don't even know if I am I think I'm [TS]

00:45:55   against this classification is what i'm [TS]

00:45:56   trying to say well i think i need to [TS]

00:45:57   have a better definition says we heard [TS]

00:45:59   what the the spaceship one was [TS]

00:46:01   apocalypse when I just guessed that is [TS]

00:46:03   that you want to run instead [TS]

00:46:04   it's closed society has broken down the [TS]

00:46:07   after scape has happened and your job is [TS]

00:46:09   to run the landscape avoiding the [TS]

00:46:11   avoiding the bands of people who want [TS]

00:46:13   petrol and empty house last how is that [TS]

00:46:16   not zombie go [TS]

00:46:17   how is that different from zombie I [TS]

00:46:19   believe zombie is that everybody else is [TS]

00:46:21   a zombie and it's you versus nature [TS]

00:46:23   whereas apocalypse is there's nothing [TS]

00:46:26   you're on your own you it's it's it's [TS]

00:46:27   it's you looking around at the broken [TS]

00:46:29   carcass of society and laughing [TS]

00:46:31   maniacally to yourself as you master it [TS]

00:46:33   oh that was that was my take so at least [TS]

00:46:35   a job [TS]

00:46:36   zombie spaceship or wasteland well I you [TS]

00:46:39   know I've actually thought about this [TS]

00:46:40   question since reading the original [TS]

00:46:41   essay and I was the kid who really loved [TS]

00:46:45   the mist mixed-up files of basil leaf [TS]

00:46:47   miss Battley frankweiler because of the [TS]

00:46:48   fantasy of living in a museum like when [TS]

00:46:50   I was little I used to fantasize that [TS]

00:46:51   someday I come all ye everybody out my [TS]

00:46:53   can live in the Smithsonian and then i [TS]

00:46:57   will admit the stand is beach reading [TS]

00:46:58   because I kind of love with a plague in [TS]

00:47:00   the world empties out we'll see what [TS]

00:47:01   happens when an apocalypse person with [TS]

00:47:03   me [TS]

00:47:03   definitely because the stand was my [TS]

00:47:05   first favorite book [TS]

00:47:06   oh my god I love that book still um but [TS]

00:47:10   I have to admit there's actually also [TS]

00:47:12   something tremendously appealing about [TS]

00:47:13   the whole spaceship I've stopped my [TS]

00:47:15   little vessel and i'm off in search of [TS]

00:47:18   new adventures Astrodome [TS]

00:47:21   yes so step one is just a spaceship it [TS]

00:47:25   slammer [TS]

00:47:26   that's right it's a broken spaceship as [TS]

00:47:28   cheesy as it sounds as cheesy as it [TS]

00:47:30   sounds I think having a baby may have [TS]

00:47:32   actually shifted me from the the [TS]

00:47:34   wasteland metaphor over to the spaceship [TS]

00:47:37   metaphor possible because I feel better [TS]

00:47:38   about putting a baby on a spaceship than [TS]

00:47:40   i do strapping her to my back and movie [TS]

00:47:41   across the wasteland she could end up a [TS]

00:47:43   Superman you know that's what happens [TS]

00:47:46   when you put a baby on a spaceship [TS]

00:47:48   anything can happen [TS]

00:47:49   that's true so Jason Jason are you a [TS]

00:47:52   zombie a spaceship or whatever the other [TS]

00:47:56   one was we always manage to police i [TS]

00:47:59   want i think i'm on the spaceship I i [TS]

00:48:01   I'm on the spaceship like i said is that [TS]

00:48:04   a Zeppelin is just a spaceship that [TS]

00:48:05   hasn't reached orbit yet but definitely [TS]

00:48:08   the I would i wrote a piece for the late [TS]

00:48:11   great website TV that we used to do [TS]

00:48:15   about [TS]

00:48:17   about Star Gate when it first came on [TS]

00:48:19   and that that's a franchise that as many [TS]

00:48:21   do degraded over time but one of the [TS]

00:48:24   class stargate universe one of it one of [TS]

00:48:26   the things I was a stargate universe is [TS]

00:48:28   better than the other spin-off but and [TS]

00:48:30   john scalzi was involved and I like his [TS]

00:48:32   book so I charitable toward it but um uh [TS]

00:48:35   huh but the original stargate what I [TS]

00:48:36   loved about it was something that I felt [TS]

00:48:38   like even start record lost after they [TS]

00:48:40   built up too much of the universe and [TS]

00:48:41   you weren't out on the fringes anymore [TS]

00:48:43   which was with stargate just had that [TS]

00:48:46   barest of and there's no spaceship by [TS]

00:48:48   the way but still it had that idea that [TS]

00:48:51   they turn this device on and you took a [TS]

00:48:53   step through it and you're on another [TS]

00:48:54   planet and you didn't know what [TS]

00:48:56   adventure way to do there and you've [TS]

00:48:57   never been there before and I that is [TS]

00:49:00   tremendously appealing that was the [TS]

00:49:01   thing you know that show ended up being [TS]

00:49:03   there's a conspiracy and a government [TS]

00:49:06   bureaucracy and all these just things [TS]

00:49:08   that just destroy they did get a [TS]

00:49:09   spaceship at one point just terrible but [TS]

00:49:12   but when it was the purity of just you [TS]

00:49:13   know we've got a gadget that will let us [TS]

00:49:15   step through to other planets and we'll [TS]

00:49:17   have adventures there i love that that [TS]

00:49:19   that kind of pure concept and anything [TS]

00:49:22   that includes MacGyver house but not [TS]

00:49:23   sliders and MacGyver yes and when it had [TS]

00:49:27   over sliders and also here's the here's [TS]

00:49:29   another thing that was great about the [TS]

00:49:31   slightest well-shot sliders cheesier [TS]

00:49:32   than Stargate my wife loves Stargate and [TS]

00:49:34   i've only seen one episode of stargate [TS]

00:49:36   and I thought it was awful but when told [TS]

00:49:39   that i saw a bad episode so it's i would [TS]

00:49:41   say that at least half of them are awful [TS]

00:49:43   because the show lasted like ten years [TS]

00:49:44   and only the first five were really any [TS]

00:49:47   good i saw where they traveled back to [TS]

00:49:48   the sixties or something and yeah future [TS]

00:49:51   podcast top equation talking about sighs [TS]

00:49:53   sci-fi actors and why some actors are [TS]

00:49:55   permanently left in in the sci-fi [TS]

00:49:57   circuit yellow these names yeah well [TS]

00:49:58   have been speaking of stargate because [TS]

00:49:59   you ended up with the characters from [TS]

00:50:01   the actress from farscape first game [TS]

00:50:03   against a woman show and bed router and [TS]

00:50:05   claudia black both ended up on Stargate [TS]

00:50:08   and I felt like really you know Brett [TS]

00:50:09   been prouder I thought he was a really [TS]

00:50:11   good leading man and he knew kind of [TS]

00:50:13   never made aware as you have nathan [TS]

00:50:15   fillion got out of the ghetto and is now [TS]

00:50:18   oh I castle [TS]

00:50:20   yeah or or add involved one who's going [TS]

00:50:23   on [TS]

00:50:23   get out his shows right castles you love [TS]

00:50:25   cast literature you think he got out of [TS]

00:50:28   a ghetto I think he would her into all [TS]

00:50:30   the worse getting a little worse [TS]

00:50:31   neighborhood would you rather be on a [TS]

00:50:32   hit sci-fi show with a cult following or [TS]

00:50:35   a like c-grade nobody watches it [TS]

00:50:37   it's not a nobody or no i don't watch [TS]

00:50:40   Cassie's on the velvet here its [TS]

00:50:41   development often John he's castle heaps [TS]

00:50:44   castles got ratings that keeps getting [TS]

00:50:45   renewed and you know what that means [TS]

00:50:47   that means nathan fillion is good [TS]

00:50:48   pretty soon he's gonna have enough money [TS]

00:50:50   to buy the rights to find it wasn't [TS]

00:50:53   receiving over loves procedures [TS]

00:50:55   yeah well Adam Baldwin sort of bounced [TS]

00:50:57   in and out because you know people were [TS]

00:50:59   like oh it's animal mother and then he [TS]

00:51:01   was in firefly in there he's on shop [TS]

00:51:03   which is kind of geeky show but it's a [TS]

00:51:07   big step down compared those characters [TS]

00:51:11   that make sense before compare these two [TS]

00:51:12   characters which is the better character [TS]

00:51:14   if you were an actor would you be [TS]

00:51:15   happier playing Jane or playing whatever [TS]

00:51:17   the heck that guy seemed as on Chuck [TS]

00:51:19   Casey I'm Casey see this is hard because [TS]

00:51:22   they get and I feel like this is geek [TS]

00:51:24   heresy we're getting off the podcast i'm [TS]

00:51:26   not a huge firefly fans so it's hard by [TS]

00:51:28   us either last is over his pocket but [TS]

00:51:32   two out of four people agree [TS]

00:51:35   fire/5 not so good if oh I'm wounded [TS]

00:51:39   Firefly is not bet that by good I've [TS]

00:51:41   always suspected that if they're like a [TS]

00:51:43   league of lady geek side be kicked out [TS]

00:51:44   just because I've never really connected [TS]

00:51:45   with any weed and stuff but you know [TS]

00:51:48   it's about it'sit's i would also be [TS]

00:51:50   kicked out of the leading league of lady [TS]

00:51:52   cakes for the same reason for just that [TS]

00:51:54   reason just that really the reason [TS]

00:51:55   picture [TS]

00:51:57   yeah because there's this new i see are [TS]

00:52:00   you guys aware that there's a site [TS]

00:52:01   called the Mary Sue that just launched [TS]

00:52:03   its supposed to be a celebration of [TS]

00:52:04   women and geeks and geeky lady culture i [TS]

00:52:07   have not heard about yeah it's called [TS]

00:52:09   it's called the Mary Sue and and this it [TS]

00:52:12   actually ties into this topic because I [TS]

00:52:13   get the sense it's trying very hard in a [TS]

00:52:15   way yeah but I think there's something [TS]

00:52:20   to the case that there is a sort of new [TS]

00:52:22   generation of of women i mean i alluded [TS]

00:52:24   to that point with doctor who i've [TS]

00:52:26   introduced lots of women friends of mine [TS]

00:52:28   to the new doctor who and they've [TS]

00:52:30   generally loved it and it's a lot looked [TS]

00:52:31   a lot of the same people who love Buffy [TS]

00:52:33   and and you know part of that is my just [TS]

00:52:36   shocked that there [TS]

00:52:37   are women watching Jean Run shows [TS]

00:52:38   because of course when I was in high [TS]

00:52:40   school we hello girls anywhere LOL yeah [TS]

00:52:43   so but I so I think there is something [TS]

00:52:46   to that in fact the point now where I [TS]

00:52:48   think there is a probably a whole [TS]

00:52:50   subculture of of woman oriented geeky [TS]

00:52:55   stuff and and knowing you Lisa I'm not [TS]

00:52:58   surprised that you might kind of lifts [TS]

00:53:00   an eyebrow at some of that stuff [TS]

00:53:01   probably play and it i think it's [TS]

00:53:05   probably just maybe a function of age [TS]

00:53:07   get off my lawn [TS]

00:53:09   if what is so great about everybody's [TS]

00:53:12   logs that they don't want people if they [TS]

00:53:15   are our lawns not you're so get off [TS]

00:53:17   we've mastered the 1i know where every I [TS]

00:53:19   know the history of every kind of blade [TS]

00:53:21   of grass cuts on it I think I think I [TS]

00:53:23   think the objection i have to too [TS]

00:53:25   self-consciously positioning lady [TS]

00:53:27   cassandra is I is it's using jet it's [TS]

00:53:30   using jet genders a differentiator and [TS]

00:53:33   the reason I object to that is because [TS]

00:53:36   you're instantly setting it up where if [TS]

00:53:38   a not be one-half there they're working [TS]

00:53:42   in opposition to each other so that [TS]

00:53:43   implies one is better than the other [TS]

00:53:45   either by virtue of exclusion by virtue [TS]

00:53:46   of the other I mean it goes back to [TS]

00:53:49   simone de beauvoir and gender theory and [TS]

00:53:51   all that and i just have to raise the [TS]

00:53:54   question why bother gendering your [TS]

00:53:56   nerves as it were [TS]

00:53:57   well I'm have scott wants to watch [TS]

00:53:59   sanctuary on the SyFy channel [TS]

00:54:01   why should it matter that he's a guy [TS]

00:54:02   yeah yeah because I have to be honest [TS]

00:54:04   growing up with that one of the only [TS]

00:54:06   ways i talk to boys growing up to be [TS]

00:54:08   honest was was because we could talk [TS]

00:54:10   about things like Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:54:12   or the science fiction books were [TS]

00:54:14   already or comic books or things like [TS]

00:54:15   that um that was that was common ground [TS]

00:54:19   where I felt comfortable discussing it [TS]

00:54:20   with him and I would hate to think of [TS]

00:54:22   this stuff being you know thrown into a [TS]

00:54:24   gender get out one way or another and it [TS]

00:54:28   honestly is a five-year-old getting into [TS]

00:54:30   Star Blazers in battlestar galactica [TS]

00:54:31   which like air back-to-back on some TV [TS]

00:54:34   I'll start coming back i think it's [TS]

00:54:36   going to be on TV again we're going back [TS]

00:54:38   on TV I hope so I would love to i [TS]

00:54:40   haven't seen that in years i would love [TS]

00:54:42   to see how it matches up but it never [TS]

00:54:44   will never look bored yeah you know it [TS]

00:54:47   never occurred to me at five that I [TS]

00:54:48   wasn't supposed to like these shows [TS]

00:54:50   about her [TS]

00:54:50   space or or that they were boys or girls [TS]

00:54:52   shows they were simply think that I was [TS]

00:54:54   interested in and you kind of [TS]

00:54:56   uncomfortable with attaching gender [TS]

00:54:57   labels to it because i feel like you [TS]

00:54:59   know you're trying you're sticking [TS]

00:55:00   people in a box or yourself or if you're [TS]

00:55:03   like all this asset for girl geeks what [TS]

00:55:04   that suggests is that it's not normal to [TS]

00:55:06   be a girl who's into geeky things and so [TS]

00:55:09   youryour either you know as subliminally [TS]

00:55:12   enhancing this sense of abnormality [TS]

00:55:14   people have or you're trying to create a [TS]

00:55:17   sense of anxiety that something is or [TS]

00:55:18   isn't normal [TS]

00:55:19   so just trying to cash in on the lady [TS]

00:55:22   geeks they totally are you chick [TS]

00:55:28   celebrities that you want for harry [TS]

00:55:29   potter yeah so that's why this with [TS]

00:55:31   David Tennant and dr. hill right [TS]

00:55:33   oh I he doesn't do it for me so maybe I [TS]

00:55:36   can't connect with that now he well I've [TS]

00:55:39   got there's a picture on my flickr [TS]

00:55:40   account of my wife standing in front of [TS]

00:55:42   his costume but the doctor who [TS]

00:55:43   experienced lebanon at it and unless [TS]

00:55:46   your dad your own different ways trucks [TS]

00:55:49   and mine now [TS]

00:55:51   different strokes different but I don't [TS]

00:55:53   think it's I don't think the caster [TS]

00:55:54   because the ladies like them i really [TS]

00:55:55   don't want to be good at this so there's [TS]

00:55:57   something to that if you look at all the [TS]

00:55:58   shows that that women tend to like it [TS]

00:56:01   and that obviously I was gonna say [TS]

00:56:03   before the gender thing about the girl [TS]

00:56:05   geeks and boy geeks its kind of [TS]

00:56:07   shorthand is the other way its cause and [TS]

00:56:08   effect is the other way is that there [TS]

00:56:10   are things that typically women like a [TS]

00:56:13   out more than men [TS]

00:56:14   I you know interpersonal relationships [TS]

00:56:17   instead of power fantasies or you know [TS]

00:56:19   just hard sci-fi or whatever dialogue [TS]

00:56:22   character yet and they take any show [TS]

00:56:24   that had that has those elements [TS]

00:56:26   strongly in it and they say oh now this [TS]

00:56:28   is great this is your girl's fantasy [TS]

00:56:29   because it doesn't but it's you know it [TS]

00:56:31   works both ways it guys like that too is [TS]

00:56:33   just you know it's a continuum of one [TS]

00:56:35   direction so as soon as you cross over [TS]

00:56:37   that line of having just too much love [TS]

00:56:38   interest or too much you know personal [TS]

00:56:42   drama or emotional stuff and not enough [TS]

00:56:44   explosions or teleportation or you know [TS]

00:56:47   stuff like that then it becomes a girl [TS]

00:56:49   fantasy and then you're like hey we [TS]

00:56:50   market this and put it in a pink box we [TS]

00:56:52   can say it's you know it's it's a girl [TS]

00:56:54   fantasy doing when really it's just a [TS]

00:56:55   sci-fi story with less one thing and [TS]

00:56:57   more of another yeah we're just just [TS]

00:57:00   weed my mean are not to get back to him [TS]

00:57:02   but you know he's a now he's [TS]

00:57:04   reputation for being a girl Kate well [TS]

00:57:05   he's got he's got a feminist message and [TS]

00:57:07   everything he doesn't have a strong [TS]

00:57:08   women characters and and that women like [TS]

00:57:10   his shows and that's that's fine but at [TS]

00:57:12   the same time you know [TS]

00:57:13   firefly had great women characters but [TS]

00:57:16   it with a male lead Buffy had a female [TS]

00:57:18   lead but as a guy who discovered Buffy [TS]

00:57:21   there's something for everyone in that [TS]

00:57:22   show [TS]

00:57:23   Buffy Buffy not unattractive and many of [TS]

00:57:25   the other women women on that show where [TS]

00:57:27   were we were quite attractive and there [TS]

00:57:29   were male kind of geek wish-fulfillment [TS]

00:57:31   characters like sander in particular so [TS]

00:57:33   you know he had something for everyone [TS]

00:57:35   but and again so why yeah why draw the [TS]

00:57:38   lines I i do think sometimes it's okay i [TS]

00:57:40   would say like i'll be at stuff and even [TS]

00:57:42   firefly because I can almost pushed over [TS]

00:57:44   into if you have to label them girl get [TS]

00:57:45   your geek you label them girl geek [TS]

00:57:47   because all those shows were about human [TS]

00:57:49   drama and not about like firefly wasn't [TS]

00:57:51   about what made the spaceship fly or [TS]

00:57:53   what kind of technology was going on or [TS]

00:57:55   what happened to the universe that was [TS]

00:57:56   all just background was it was [TS]

00:57:57   completely a character drama and buffing [TS]

00:58:00   was like you weren't really interested [TS]

00:58:01   that much in like a no vampires how do [TS]

00:58:03   they work was the character drama [TS]

00:58:04   coming-of-age story so those you have [TS]

00:58:08   you had two categories and you'd have to [TS]

00:58:09   call them girl geek luckily they didn't [TS]

00:58:11   do that but you can see some cynical [TS]

00:58:13   person wrapping these up and saying oh [TS]

00:58:14   you know like twilight was heavily [TS]

00:58:16   marketed because there's like nothing in [TS]

00:58:17   there for the guys you know so that's [TS]

00:58:19   that's obviously way over the other side [TS]

00:58:20   of the spectrum but it's more of a [TS]

00:58:22   marketing decision i think then saying [TS]

00:58:24   all guys aren't going to like firefly [TS]

00:58:26   because it's all about these [TS]

00:58:26   relationships no guys love it you know [TS]

00:58:28   they like all that stuff to write but I [TS]

00:58:31   was the accusation you know Russell [TS]

00:58:32   Russell Davis got about a doctor who is [TS]

00:58:34   that there are lots of bitter [TS]

00:58:35   forty-year-old or 40 or 50 year old [TS]

00:58:39   doctor who fans from the old days you [TS]

00:58:41   said I'm tired of seeing all this soap [TS]

00:58:43   opera and soap opera was code for [TS]

00:58:45   characters with actual life thoughts and [TS]

00:58:48   emotional resources yeah and another in [TS]

00:58:50   a backstory and a family and a life and [TS]

00:58:53   they're like I don't want that I went [TS]

00:58:55   bedded rubber suits like what you get [TS]

00:58:57   famous just stand around and look pretty [TS]

00:58:58   it's doctor who you'll get the robot men [TS]

00:59:00   and rubber seals have feelings but [TS]

00:59:02   you're gonna put your memory and do they [TS]

00:59:04   not bleed rubber they have feelings but [TS]

00:59:07   they don't backstories will we be sad if [TS]

00:59:10   they died that that would be extending [TS]

00:59:13   our feelings to be brought up [TS]

00:59:15   I don't want to be sad when they kill [TS]

00:59:16   the monster I just want them to kill the [TS]

00:59:18   monster exam [TS]

00:59:20   alright what have we learned we learned [TS]

00:59:21   anything or did we just go around Big [TS]

00:59:23   Sur patton oswalt is wrong [TS]

00:59:25   ok no one agrees no one agrees with [TS]

00:59:28   anything in the article i think it's the [TS]

00:59:29   class now I i do think that we can agree [TS]

00:59:32   that the article was geeky in the sense [TS]

00:59:34   that you know once again you have a geek [TS]

00:59:36   who's attempting to put a framework [TS]

00:59:37   around something because it's a it's a [TS]

00:59:39   handy way of understanding the world so [TS]

00:59:41   we just integrate the framework i think [TS]

00:59:43   it was trolling in controlling is very [TS]

00:59:45   geeky given that [TS]

00:59:46   yeah yeah or maybe it was a way to [TS]

00:59:49   promote this book I mean we talked about [TS]

00:59:51   zombie invasion place Landers got to I'm [TS]

00:59:53   sure was a way to promote this book but [TS]

00:59:55   I know it was you know it was it with [TS]

00:59:56   provocative and even if it was silly and [TS]

00:59:59   devolved [TS]

00:59:59   devolved [TS]

01:00:00   into a wacky wacky comedy routine which [TS]

01:00:03   I you know I didn't think it was kind of [TS]

01:00:04   funny that in the end of the only comic [TS]

01:00:06   book that remains is Steve goes around [TS]

01:00:08   on shade the changing man I mean that's [TS]

01:00:09   funny in a way but it's you know not [TS]

01:00:12   particularly deep that's ok he sold some [TS]

01:00:17   books right I didn't buy his book he's [TS]

01:00:19   got all that he saw one bookcase he's [TS]

01:00:21   got all that ratatouille money to fall [TS]

01:00:23   back on [TS]

01:00:23   exactly right kids if you like [TS]

01:00:26   ratatouille don't listen to Patton [TS]

01:00:28   Oswalt's comedy by the way [TS]

01:00:29   yeah dad that's something I was going to [TS]

01:00:32   mention early on is is those are very [TS]

01:00:34   separate spheres no don't don't listen [TS]

01:00:37   to the Patton Oswalt of here if you're a [TS]

01:00:38   kid who likes funnier at movies i [TS]

01:00:42   recommend i recommend the secret of him [TS]

01:00:43   if you like like fighting rodent themed [TS]

01:00:46   kids movies and you should check out [TS]

01:00:48   George Carlin stand up if you like road [TS]

01:00:51   themed movies and on that note i am [TS]

01:00:56   going to declare this a zombie wasteland [TS]

01:00:59   Chloe look spectacular space images we [TS]

01:01:03   fled to the spaceship and left the [TS]

01:01:05   zombie wasteland behind so until next [TS]

01:01:08   time i'd like to thank my delightful [TS]

01:01:10   guess this was a lot of fun [TS]

01:01:12   Lisa thank you and thanks for suggesting [TS]

01:01:14   the topic well I had fun with everybody [TS]

01:01:15   i was placed to podcast with people John [TS]

01:01:19   siracusa thank you for being here as [TS]

01:01:20   well pleasure as always [TS]

01:01:22   yes great having you and Scott McNulty [TS]

01:01:25   thank you very much you made me laugh [TS]

01:01:26   again thank you Jason you will always be [TS]

01:01:29   my lady geek until next time on the [TS]

01:01:32   incomparable podcast this is jason smell [TS]

01:01:34   signing off thanks for listening [TS]

01:01:41   [Music] [TS]