The Incomparable

27: Coal Mound Sex Scene


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number 27 mar [TS]

00:00:14   we're back on the uncomfortable podcast [TS]

00:00:16   and I call this meeting of the book club [TS]

00:00:18   to order and as last time our book club [TS]

00:00:21   remains I dwindled to three but now we [TS]

00:00:25   remain at three we didn't lose anybody [TS]

00:00:27   this isn't a horror movie where they [TS]

00:00:29   pick us off one by one or at least not [TS]

00:00:32   yet yet so there's me the voice you [TS]

00:00:35   heard is Glenn fleischmann claim thanks [TS]

00:00:37   for not dying in the interim and reading [TS]

00:00:39   the book thank you for not bury me in a [TS]

00:00:41   shallow grave as promised [TS]

00:00:43   yes and also joining us is of course the [TS]

00:00:45   heart of the podcast Scott McNulty I [TS]

00:00:48   always thought I was the spleen of the [TS]

00:00:50   podcast yeah the gizzard have the [TS]

00:00:52   podcast that's been that's right all [TS]

00:00:54   right so I'm Jason snow and i am your [TS]

00:00:58   host for the incomparable podcast and [TS]

00:01:00   the book club and we're going to talk [TS]

00:01:01   today about a book that was actually [TS]

00:01:03   mentioned by Scott McNulty on the very [TS]

00:01:06   first incomparable podcast right [TS]

00:01:09   it just takes us a long time to get the [TS]

00:01:11   face yeah well it you know for us to all [TS]

00:01:13   read the book or at least all by all I [TS]

00:01:15   mean the three of us may even be the [TS]

00:01:18   people who are literate has used the [TS]

00:01:21   word to read [TS]

00:01:22   that's right so so the book is the dream [TS]

00:01:25   of perpetual motion by dexter Palmer [TS]

00:01:29   very interesting book i'm not sure where [TS]

00:01:34   to start we should probably summarize [TS]

00:01:35   what this book is Scott you want to take [TS]

00:01:38   a crack at sort of what the book is [TS]

00:01:39   about on a broad scale sure I so it's [TS]

00:01:44   it's the main character is a guy named [TS]

00:01:45   Harold Winslow I think that's yes okay [TS]

00:01:48   and he hit it so it has a framing story [TS]

00:01:53   that takes place in a Zeppelin yes it's [TS]

00:01:56   not really feeling still check no [TS]

00:01:57   because it keeps coming back and forth [TS]

00:01:59   you sort of start and end there but [TS]

00:02:00   there's also it keeps cutting to it in [TS]

00:02:03   the middle at various points exactly so [TS]

00:02:05   i guess i guess the rest of the stories [TS]

00:02:07   and flashback I guess exactly so in the [TS]

00:02:09   chronologic the chronological you know [TS]

00:02:13   flow of the book begin a present where [TS]

00:02:16   Harold Winslow is trapped on a Zeppelin [TS]

00:02:21   that contains a perpetual motion machine [TS]

00:02:24   apparently that keeps it afloat [TS]

00:02:27   but he has a sneaking suspicion that it [TS]

00:02:29   is failing and he's going to crash and [TS]

00:02:32   he's writing his life story basically on [TS]

00:02:35   this Zeppelin and explains over the [TS]

00:02:37   course of the book why in fact he's [TS]

00:02:38   trapped in a Zeppelin and you find out [TS]

00:02:41   his dealings with a character named [TS]

00:02:44   prospero taligent who is a guess his [TS]

00:02:48   counterpart dinosaur his nemesis not [TS]

00:02:52   really insist that he is the alleged [TS]

00:02:54   nemesis allegedly the constructed [TS]

00:02:57   nemesis right right he's an [TS]

00:02:59   industrialist and inventor and his [TS]

00:03:01   frozen corpse is stored on the Zeppelin [TS]

00:03:04   it [TS]

00:03:06   that's not a spoiler amazing on all that [TS]

00:03:08   is not hot and he has a daughter who is [TS]

00:03:11   I guess kind of a love interest may be [TS]

00:03:13   called Miranda and so the story is [TS]

00:03:17   really Harold and maran about their the [TS]

00:03:21   relationship between Harold and Miranda [TS]

00:03:24   and how Prospero interacts kind of sets [TS]

00:03:29   in motion a series of events that leads [TS]

00:03:32   to the beginning of the book through to [TS]

00:03:34   the end of the book right make any sense [TS]

00:03:35   know that it was very good [TS]

00:03:37   that's yes well well set and added the [TS]

00:03:39   author set in fact and the setting of in [TS]

00:03:41   the flashback is is we'll get to that [TS]

00:03:43   Glenn is is zero ville which is a [TS]

00:03:47   fictional city in the 20th century but [TS]

00:03:51   it's not the twentieth centuries we've [TS]

00:03:52   come to know it's this I guess you could [TS]

00:03:55   say steampunky kind of you know it's [TS]

00:03:57   it's a it's the future is viewed from [TS]

00:03:59   the past kind of thing there are there [TS]

00:04:02   are there was an age of miracles which [TS]

00:04:04   is passed and now things are more modern [TS]

00:04:07   but their modern in a very strange way [TS]

00:04:08   where there are mechanical men and other [TS]

00:04:11   strange inventions that seems to have [TS]

00:04:13   all been created by this prospero [TS]

00:04:15   taligent who is AAA enigma of a [TS]

00:04:18   character [TS]

00:04:19   yes he's a very mysterious guy its its [TS]

00:04:23   steampunk it's like it's like we're you [TS]

00:04:25   know they have computers and the [TS]

00:04:26   Internet ostensibly and combustion [TS]

00:04:28   engines but everyone wears little tiny [TS]

00:04:30   round glasses to the style inside this [TS]

00:04:33   through the style aesthetic style and [TS]

00:04:36   description of things that makes it [TS]

00:04:38   sound like a sort of eighteenth-century [TS]

00:04:39   steampunk [TS]

00:04:40   nice entry steampunk you know veneer and [TS]

00:04:43   yet all sorts of modern stuff is there [TS]

00:04:45   too it's just there's not plenty things [TS]

00:04:47   are sort of in short supply that people [TS]

00:04:49   are all starving so it's not precisely [TS]

00:04:51   it's a dystopian but it's not thoroughly [TS]

00:04:54   horrible it's just it's just different [TS]

00:04:56   oh i wouldnĂ­t i read the the sort of [TS]

00:04:59   city of zero available had you know it [TS]

00:05:02   was it's like the movies movies that are [TS]

00:05:04   set in in the early 20th century the [TS]

00:05:06   late 19th century where it sort of well [TS]

00:05:08   we don't have a lot but we've got [TS]

00:05:09   plucked by golly it was that one thing [TS]

00:05:12   there's nothing economy our main [TS]

00:05:14   character our antihero can be employed [TS]

00:05:16   as a greeting card slogan writer what [TS]

00:05:19   sort of hilarious [TS]

00:05:20   by the way as the greeting card slogan [TS]

00:05:22   writer that is weights described in [TS]

00:05:25   which he and his colleagues write them [TS]

00:05:26   is precisely the way in which America [TS]

00:05:28   Online used to construct its advertising [TS]

00:05:32   slogans about a decade ago and i'm not [TS]

00:05:34   kidding like the description reading [TS]

00:05:36   this I knew a guy who was involved in [TS]

00:05:37   creating it you're doing a be testing [TS]

00:05:39   where you test two versions of something [TS]

00:05:41   are many versions of something to see [TS]

00:05:42   what gets people to click on offers and [TS]

00:05:44   the process by which the greeting [TS]

00:05:46   Harvard you know get well in anniversary [TS]

00:05:50   holiday stuff is composed in the factory [TS]

00:05:52   for which mr. Winslow works is is really [TS]

00:05:55   i mean almost identical to what i welded [TS]

00:05:58   I i wonder if you work today well that's [TS]

00:06:00   what time it strikes what struck me [TS]

00:06:01   about the greeting card company which is [TS]

00:06:03   an interesting sort of at the beginning [TS]

00:06:04   we we meet him and he's working in the [TS]

00:06:06   greeting card company sort of you get [TS]

00:06:08   the sense he's a he's a failed writer [TS]

00:06:10   and we actually then flashback I guess [TS]

00:06:11   further and talk about his childhood and [TS]

00:06:14   what's led him to this point what struck [TS]

00:06:16   me about it is is have working in the [TS]

00:06:18   magazine industry the you end up getting [TS]

00:06:20   very displaced in time where you're [TS]

00:06:23   working on your holiday gift guide in [TS]

00:06:25   the summertime we have a summer intern [TS]

00:06:28   this year who was working on our holiday [TS]

00:06:30   guide which always seems insane but [TS]

00:06:32   that's the way you have to do it now at [TS]

00:06:34   max black world magazine you decorate [TS]

00:06:36   the office for the season in which the [TS]

00:06:38   publications are coming out right [TS]

00:06:40   because right now we're all correctly [TS]

00:06:42   it's August in your office [TS]

00:06:44   well that that is one of the amusing [TS]

00:06:45   things about the about the greeting card [TS]

00:06:46   companies that they like pipe in the the [TS]

00:06:49   cold air in the middle of summer and [TS]

00:06:52   make everybody freeze and they put up [TS]

00:06:53   Chris [TS]

00:06:54   with decorations but anyway I've lived [TS]

00:06:55   that sort of displacement where your [TS]

00:06:57   head is in the holidays and it's August [TS]

00:07:00   so I thought that was I thought that was [TS]

00:07:01   a strange little little bit this was [TS]

00:07:03   this book was written by dr. Palmer [TS]

00:07:06   while he was what I guess [TS]

00:07:08   procrastinating from doing his his his [TS]

00:07:11   PhD thesis at you know which i think is [TS]

00:07:15   kind of interesting so you not written [TS]

00:07:16   by a young guy written by a guy who's [TS]

00:07:19   probably you know 30 or a little bit [TS]

00:07:22   over 30 and and so we probably had some [TS]

00:07:24   interesting life experiences that he [TS]

00:07:26   kind of poured into this so it's in the [TS]

00:07:28   modern ones too like he obviously has [TS]

00:07:29   some dot-com experience because there's [TS]

00:07:31   so many aspects of this that legacy idea [TS]

00:07:33   what AOL thing that greeted the magazine [TS]

00:07:35   things like some part of access to [TS]

00:07:38   publications online things where he's [TS]

00:07:40   retelling a story there's a bit in which [TS]

00:07:43   he's trying to explain something to his [TS]

00:07:44   sister by drawing diagrams on cards it's [TS]

00:07:47   a marvelous but we should talk about [TS]

00:07:48   more that whole part of town but the the [TS]

00:07:51   notion of using sort of like PowerPoint [TS]

00:07:53   presentations and using simplified [TS]

00:07:55   things that try to explain everything to [TS]

00:07:57   get people to buy into ideas is very [TS]

00:07:59   taut commies so there's definitely it's [TS]

00:08:02   like a steampunk feel it's like this is [TS]

00:08:04   what happened if if we had steampunk and [TS]

00:08:06   the 2001 dot-com collapse actually cause [TS]

00:08:09   like the collapse of society as a whole [TS]

00:08:11   and i read somewhere that Dexter Palmer [TS]

00:08:14   was I don't know if he still is employed [TS]

00:08:16   writing questions for the s80 yes yes oh [TS]

00:08:20   well that's the thing that's where the [TS]

00:08:22   question thing comes from because it's [TS]

00:08:24   that process of recia ova like through [TS]

00:08:26   the crucible you come up with an idea [TS]

00:08:28   and it has looked up by other people and [TS]

00:08:29   crunched is something that is possibly [TS]

00:08:31   recognizable to your original but has to [TS]

00:08:33   be acceptable to these arbiters that are [TS]

00:08:35   fought far higher levels above you [TS]

00:08:38   so one of the strange things about [TS]

00:08:39   setting this book is that we have this [TS]

00:08:41   like I said it's the early 20th century [TS]

00:08:43   basically and it's the indeed the age of [TS]

00:08:46   miracles has passed but now there's this [TS]

00:08:48   industrial age that's led by [TS]

00:08:49   industrialists and inventors like like [TS]

00:08:52   prospero taligent except what what the [TS]

00:08:55   event is so strange like the when when [TS]

00:08:57   when young Harold Winslow well I guess [TS]

00:09:02   there's a whole Willy Wonka whole [TS]

00:09:04   Charlie and the Chocolate Factory thing [TS]

00:09:05   happening here to where a young Harold [TS]

00:09:07   slow is at a carnival where we're [TS]

00:09:09   horrible things are happening to his [TS]

00:09:11   sister by the way I mean there's so much [TS]

00:09:14   there is too much although she's a she's [TS]

00:09:16   a participant in that too [TS]

00:09:17   she is she got three dollars out of it [TS]

00:09:20   she should have held out for more [TS]

00:09:21   according to his father three dollars in [TS]

00:09:22   the tunnel of love but he passes he [TS]

00:09:26   passes a test he walks away from the [TS]

00:09:28   rest of the carnival one goes up into [TS]

00:09:29   this viewing chamber where he these two [TS]

00:09:34   guys show him the the tower and they [TS]

00:09:36   showed me Miranda out on her balcony on [TS]

00:09:39   the tower and and then he basically [TS]

00:09:43   through this sort of like test that he [TS]

00:09:44   passes which is again a very roald dahl [TS]

00:09:48   kind of thing right there eight is very [TS]

00:09:50   cruel test also IDK yet as a demon [TS]

00:09:53   appears at his house and that's sort of [TS]

00:09:55   a robotic demon that wanders into his [TS]

00:09:59   house and then sparks itself there for a [TS]

00:10:02   week so strange and then eventually [TS]

00:10:04   wakes up unfurls its wings and flies him [TS]

00:10:08   to the top of the tower it's a [TS]

00:10:10   terrifying terrifying scenes and flying [TS]

00:10:13   in this beautiful way or jet packs like [TS]

00:10:15   it squeezes and practically the death as [TS]

00:10:17   he hurtles through the aircraft to land [TS]

00:10:19   in spanish on this roof unfortunately [TS]

00:10:21   none of the children are killed in the [TS]

00:10:23   process [TS]

00:10:23   well it turns out the more ways all got [TS]

00:10:25   demons and the girls all got angels and [TS]

00:10:27   so that's what we're doing that had been [TS]

00:10:29   Shanna no no not at all i wanted to [TS]

00:10:32   bring up a really good point your Kafka [TS]

00:10:35   let's bring a cop good because that's my [TS]

00:10:36   release it in time for Kafka it's Africa [TS]

00:10:39   it's always time for Kafka it's and I'm [TS]

00:10:42   play the cop car horn it was right in [TS]

00:10:44   the car before we like to mention Kafka [TS]

00:10:47   actually zakappa belt so I back in high [TS]

00:10:49   school teacher said to me in a class [TS]

00:10:51   that in every coffee story things are [TS]

00:10:53   going along normally with the exception [TS]

00:10:55   of let's say the metamorphosis which the [TS]

00:10:57   main character awakes to find himself [TS]

00:10:58   transformed into a giant cockroach with [TS]

00:11:00   the exception of that in every Kafka [TS]

00:11:02   short story [TS]

00:11:03   things seem sort of normal and then a [TS]

00:11:05   bell rings or some transitional sound or [TS]

00:11:07   thing happens and then you go into the [TS]

00:11:09   mind of the unconscious and everything [TS]

00:11:11   is bizarre horses come out of this tiny [TS]

00:11:13   opening and whatever and so same thing [TS]

00:11:15   is true like not that the world is very [TS]

00:11:16   normal and 0 ville but it's this he goes [TS]

00:11:19   through a door [TS]

00:11:20   because he's the one who was going to go [TS]

00:11:22   through that door and then his world is [TS]

00:11:24   never the same like that one decision he [TS]

00:11:25   made that point he took in which he sees [TS]

00:11:28   unseeable things in this telescope and [TS]

00:11:30   views you know this brand that [TS]

00:11:32   transforms in life into what you know [TS]

00:11:34   essentially plays out until the end of [TS]

00:11:36   the book at the beginning and end and [TS]

00:11:38   the interesting thing is that that point [TS]

00:11:40   happens towards the beginning of the [TS]

00:11:42   book but he the character is already [TS]

00:11:44   past that point because the book is a [TS]

00:11:47   flashback right so write my book [TS]

00:11:49   actually begins at that point but that [TS]

00:11:51   point happens happens later in the book [TS]

00:11:53   at one of the one of the things i think [TS]

00:11:56   appropriately enough to mention now that [TS]

00:11:58   i thought was fascinating about the [TS]

00:11:59   beginning of this book is that he [TS]

00:12:01   discusses it [TS]

00:12:03   oh just directly he discusses how this [TS]

00:12:06   is the story of how he got to be himself [TS]

00:12:08   and I've actually it's one of the the [TS]

00:12:10   highlights that I made in this book is [TS]

00:12:12   we've got decided that the only way to [TS]

00:12:15   make sense of our existences is to set [TS]

00:12:17   the stories of our lives down on paper [TS]

00:12:18   to try to make one tale that shows how [TS]

00:12:21   the 20th century turned Harold Winslow [TS]

00:12:23   into Harold Winslow into Harold Winslow [TS]

00:12:27   into me and how the end it's interesting [TS]

00:12:31   because that's really how he views it is [TS]

00:12:32   that there's the guy who's on the [TS]

00:12:34   Zeppelin and he he looks back on his [TS]

00:12:37   life and he said well I'm not the same [TS]

00:12:38   guy who had the adventures with Miranda [TS]

00:12:41   and I'm not the same guy who was the kid [TS]

00:12:42   at the telescope but it is all his life [TS]

00:12:45   and and I thought that was really [TS]

00:12:46   interesting that he's he's talking about [TS]

00:12:48   you know these are the events that that [TS]

00:12:50   string together in my life and then you [TS]

00:12:53   know they're chopped up almost like [TS]

00:12:54   they're from different people's lives [TS]

00:12:56   but they're not it's the one guy and [TS]

00:12:58   that theme is further explored when a at [TS]

00:13:01   the end of the book a Harold is going [TS]

00:13:04   and thinking he's going to save Miranda [TS]

00:13:06   and he encounters the portrait maker job [TS]

00:13:11   it is to create a so prospero taligent [TS]

00:13:14   who has a weird relationship with his [TS]

00:13:16   daughter [TS]

00:13:17   yeah just at least has hired this [TS]

00:13:21   sculptor to create the perfect [TS]

00:13:23   representation of Miranda right and so [TS]

00:13:27   over the course of 25 years he just [TS]

00:13:29   continually create sculpture after [TS]

00:13:32   sculpture of [TS]

00:13:33   Brenda trying to capture the perfect [TS]

00:13:36   representation and he he gets one and he [TS]

00:13:38   shows it to Prospero and Prospero says [TS]

00:13:41   you'll get your money I'll pay you for [TS]

00:13:43   what I've contracted but you have [TS]

00:13:45   captured miranda is she was six months [TS]

00:13:47   ago now that she is now and so that [TS]

00:13:50   whole theme of kind of people changing [TS]

00:13:52   and you can never freeze time you have [TS]

00:13:55   to continually go forward and everyone [TS]

00:13:57   keeps changing I think runs through the [TS]

00:13:59   book in many ways right right although [TS]

00:14:01   in the end I suppose you depending on [TS]

00:14:03   how you view it you could say that they [TS]

00:14:04   they did finally succeed but only a [TS]

00:14:09   horrible horrible fast well I want to [TS]

00:14:11   back up to the different sort of [TS]

00:14:13   metaphor a mechanism all right to which [TS]

00:14:15   is that you know obviously this is [TS]

00:14:17   supposed to be you know he's using [TS]

00:14:19   character names from the tempest from [TS]

00:14:22   shakespeare's the tempest and re-do our [TS]

00:14:24   listeners I'm sure are familiar with the [TS]

00:14:25   play I've seen multiple productions of [TS]

00:14:27   it and it's you know it's one of I think [TS]

00:14:29   Shakespeare's most interesting plays [TS]

00:14:31   written if i remember it was it was his [TS]

00:14:33   last play was near the end of his life [TS]

00:14:35   believed to be the last plane as you [TS]

00:14:36   wrote by himself [TS]

00:14:37   yes and it's fascinating because it's um [TS]

00:14:39   it's you know it's got great it takes [TS]

00:14:41   place someone island but it's got this [TS]

00:14:42   great scope of of magic intensity of [TS]

00:14:45   relationship to the father-daughter [TS]

00:14:46   there's the dignified missing mother as [TS]

00:14:49   always there's a man taking all his [TS]

00:14:52   powers and throwing them away [TS]

00:14:54   imagine the entire all set six seasons [TS]

00:14:57   of lost squash it down to one play that [TS]

00:15:01   sort of it isn't that like until the [TS]

00:15:03   shed and so so probably no such a [TS]

00:15:05   tempest The Tempest is an incredible [TS]

00:15:07   treasure trove that authors have [TS]

00:15:09   plundered and alluded to for you know [TS]

00:15:11   hundreds of years you know at a [TS]

00:15:13   prosperous books is a fascinating as [TS]

00:15:15   peter greenaway almost unwatchable as [TS]

00:15:18   most of greenways work but insightful [TS]

00:15:21   into different aspects of the [TS]

00:15:22   personality of the music music magician [TS]

00:15:25   the Creator the snow sexual being the [TS]

00:15:28   relationship of a parent child's role so [TS]

00:15:31   it's this great source material and I [TS]

00:15:33   think that's one of the things that I I [TS]

00:15:35   think he does [TS]

00:15:36   Palmer does best is he's not a slave to [TS]

00:15:39   the plot of the play and as you read the [TS]

00:15:42   book further you realize that this isn't [TS]

00:15:44   just an accent [TS]

00:15:45   it's not the the novelist dexter Palmer [TS]

00:15:48   imposing his will on a narrative [TS]

00:15:51   structure try to recast in fact as you [TS]

00:15:53   get further in the book you realize that [TS]

00:15:55   his character prospero taligent who has [TS]

00:15:58   imposed his will inside of the book on [TS]

00:16:00   the character asset that's a great [TS]

00:16:02   conceit that we don't know if his name [TS]

00:16:04   was originally pasta Prospero he does [TS]

00:16:06   not recall in the book he talks at some [TS]

00:16:07   point about your coming to being that [TS]

00:16:10   into existence as an adult he does not [TS]

00:16:12   recall having a child is not believe he [TS]

00:16:14   had 1i which goes back to the whole idea [TS]

00:16:16   that you you know I'm not the same [TS]

00:16:18   person as that person in fact here's [TS]

00:16:20   Glenn to your point they're one of the [TS]

00:16:22   lines that i highlighted in the book is [TS]

00:16:24   is when Harold is talking to his sister [TS]

00:16:26   and he mentions prospero taligent she [TS]

00:16:30   says now he probably named himself that [TS]

00:16:32   he was probably a teenager looking [TS]

00:16:34   through a book of Shakespeare place or [TS]

00:16:35   something [TS]

00:16:36   doing a homework assignment and he [TS]

00:16:37   pointed his finger at a page and said [TS]

00:16:39   there that's the name I want and that's [TS]

00:16:41   person i'm going to pretend to be any [TS]

00:16:44   called himself telligent because he [TS]

00:16:45   likes failed Apple IBM joint programming [TS]

00:16:47   that was my thinking yes exactly who [TS]

00:16:50   doesn't [TS]

00:16:51   so the play does not for my structural [TS]

00:16:53   narrative now i'm in infected is get [TS]

00:16:56   counter purposes with the play that the [TS]

00:16:58   narrative the book and you see that this [TS]

00:16:59   is part of Prospero taligent as the [TS]

00:17:02   puppet master as trying to fulfill a [TS]

00:17:04   destiny as a magician as creating [TS]

00:17:07   himself as a magician who can accomplish [TS]

00:17:09   modern miracles is the only man left [TS]

00:17:11   apparently in that world who can do that [TS]

00:17:13   and by doing so he's trying to reform [TS]

00:17:15   the world into his own image and using [TS]

00:17:18   the names like Caliban and Miranda and [TS]

00:17:20   creating a giant tower that is island in [TS]

00:17:22   which you can create conditions of [TS]

00:17:24   nature and illusion in the room that [TS]

00:17:26   Miranda plays and all of these things go [TS]

00:17:28   into into that built into that that to [TS]

00:17:31   the character stealing the story as [TS]

00:17:35   opposed to the novelist imposing it [TS]

00:17:36   right and and the critical point that [TS]

00:17:39   you know so we mentioned that Harold has [TS]

00:17:42   a demon appears that heralds home and [TS]

00:17:45   takes them to this party and at that [TS]

00:17:47   party that Prospero is having for [TS]

00:17:49   Miranda he has his gift in quotes to the [TS]

00:17:53   children at the party is [TS]

00:17:55   a hundred children he promises that he [TS]

00:17:57   will give them their hearts desire which [TS]

00:17:59   is in fact not what they might want but [TS]

00:18:02   what he feels that they really want [TS]

00:18:04   so he tells these all the kids that well [TS]

00:18:07   he's but he's right he's right it is [TS]

00:18:10   treated horrible horrible stuff that the [TS]

00:18:12   children can predict what if someone [TS]

00:18:13   plucked that idea out of your mind and [TS]

00:18:15   said the thing that you want most even [TS]

00:18:17   the things you can't express you would [TS]

00:18:19   never express to someone else is the [TS]

00:18:21   thing that you'll get that that's a [TS]

00:18:22   curse not on a reward [TS]

00:18:24   yeah he's it's creepy and he he then [TS]

00:18:27   proceeded to give that gift a court not [TS]

00:18:30   immediately to all the children but over [TS]

00:18:32   the the entire span of their lives till [TS]

00:18:34   the point at which Harold is the only [TS]

00:18:37   one who hasn't yet received his heart's [TS]

00:18:39   desire because Prospero has something [TS]

00:18:42   very particular planned for Harold which [TS]

00:18:46   leads into also some of the strange [TS]

00:18:47   things that happen where we see the two [TS]

00:18:48   men from the telescope again and there's [TS]

00:18:51   a fake kidnapping blend it [TS]

00:18:54   we think it's well it is fake isn't it [TS]

00:18:55   yeah there's a fake kidnapping and then [TS]

00:18:58   there's a friend you know Harold just [TS]

00:19:01   put in a position where he can rescue [TS]

00:19:02   Miranda and and at that point in [TS]

00:19:05   hindsight Prospero says that was the [TS]

00:19:07   moment when you were the happiest you've [TS]

00:19:09   got to make a decision to save Miranda [TS]

00:19:11   and of course the sad sad irony is that [TS]

00:19:14   he didn't make any decisions [TS]

00:19:17   it was completely fabricated it felt as [TS]

00:19:21   if the entire thing is setup and yet [TS]

00:19:23   that's his that's his happiest moment is [TS]

00:19:25   when he finally made a decision to save [TS]

00:19:27   her and he wasn't saving her and it [TS]

00:19:29   wasn't really his decision to make but [TS]

00:19:31   there's that moment where he sort of [TS]

00:19:32   hesitates and his is pondering making [TS]

00:19:35   that decision that the prosper later [TS]

00:19:36   says that that was your moment he [TS]

00:19:38   hesitates for a full five minutes while [TS]

00:19:41   the guys are like stalling in the other [TS]

00:19:43   room and arguing with each other [TS]

00:19:46   another thing in that in a sort of [TS]

00:19:48   latter part of the of the novel that i [TS]

00:19:50   thought was fascinating was the idea [TS]

00:19:51   that the there's a a rebellion against [TS]

00:19:56   prosper intelligent and his creations [TS]

00:19:58   we're a bunch of guys dress up like [TS]

00:20:00   mechanical men but they're not there [TS]

00:20:02   guys in mechanical men outfits and then [TS]

00:20:04   I just going to be making of the Tin Man [TS]

00:20:06   yeah I killed those disgusting people up [TS]

00:20:08   it's like mobs of guys dressed up like [TS]

00:20:10   the Tin Man beating the crap out of [TS]

00:20:12   everybody and handwriting sorcerers [TS]

00:20:15   apprentice thing like intelligent [TS]

00:20:17   creates this role for his men to create [TS]

00:20:20   this you know it's almost like colleges [TS]

00:20:21   doing you know murder mysteries a [TS]

00:20:24   for-hire like he gets his staff to to [TS]

00:20:28   act out the roles he's doing it but he [TS]

00:20:30   doesn't actually I think about it he's [TS]

00:20:32   got people acting out rules all the time [TS]

00:20:33   and every story prospero taligent is a [TS]

00:20:36   storyteller even though in the book what [TS]

00:20:38   he does is he's creating machinery and [TS]

00:20:41   wealth and manipulating things but [TS]

00:20:43   that's true in the play to that Prospero [TS]

00:20:45   tell stories his words have power become [TS]

00:20:48   reality because he is the magician same [TS]

00:20:50   role here just with technology instead [TS]

00:20:52   of ostensibly instead of magic but so [TS]

00:20:54   Prospero you know sets these men a task [TS]

00:20:56   but then one of them gets the idea that [TS]

00:20:58   this is what it should be that he's lost [TS]

00:21:00   sight of these it doesn't even matter [TS]

00:21:01   anymore whether he's playing the role or [TS]

00:21:04   it's real it has become real he's [TS]

00:21:06   transcended this role that was given to [TS]

00:21:08   him and he creates this mass movement [TS]

00:21:10   even while Prospero is telling another [TS]

00:21:12   story that drives people insane when and [TS]

00:21:15   angers the entire world against him on [TS]

00:21:17   you've got you've got so Prospero tells [TS]

00:21:20   his story we have this book which is the [TS]

00:21:23   story as told by harold as he's writing [TS]

00:21:27   it while he's on the Zeppelin he Harold [TS]

00:21:30   himself that is sort of viewed as a [TS]

00:21:32   failed writer who wanted to be a wanted [TS]

00:21:36   to be a novelist and told that 222 [TS]

00:21:39   Prospero at the birthday party but he [TS]

00:21:42   ends up being a greeting card writer [TS]

00:21:44   instead and and then with all that going [TS]

00:21:48   on there's also this other funny moment [TS]

00:21:50   where at one point at a particularly [TS]

00:21:53   dreadful party [TS]

00:21:55   Harold is introduced to another young [TS]

00:21:57   gentleman who wants to be a writer named [TS]

00:21:59   dexter Palmer all right right with this [TS]

00:22:04   very post tedious being afraid [TS]

00:22:07   incredibly boring yes if I don't I love [TS]

00:22:11   that I you know that say i love the [TS]

00:22:13   that's like the literary equivalent of [TS]

00:22:15   alfred hitchcock appearing in a cameo [TS]

00:22:18   and is in this bill but i love that Paul [TS]

00:22:20   summer is merciless to his namesake in' [TS]

00:22:23   in the book he's a just an incredibly [TS]

00:22:26   boring college guy that has nothing [TS]

00:22:29   interesting to say and that everybody is [TS]

00:22:30   trying to get away from and i would like [TS]

00:22:33   to talk about women will be talking [TS]

00:22:34   about women [TS]

00:22:35   oh my sweet that's why everybody does a [TS]

00:22:37   podcast right as is to talk about women [TS]

00:22:39   actually well I won't talk about the [TS]

00:22:41   generative function i want to be all you [TS]

00:22:43   know deconstructionist 90 days lit crit [TS]

00:22:46   type but not precisely but I don't want [TS]

00:22:48   to talk about you don't want to talk [TS]

00:22:49   about the themes of the above [TS]

00:22:51   storytellers in the writers or you know [TS]

00:22:52   we we covered that so i can check that [TS]

00:22:54   box is checked that one up now we can [TS]

00:22:56   talk without generating function [TS]

00:22:57   generator function is usually assigned [TS]

00:22:59   to him even though it is a writer Lee [TS]

00:23:00   thing right [TS]

00:23:01   Prospero being the magician in the play [TS]

00:23:03   in in the tempest Prospero has to defeat [TS]

00:23:06   that was sicker acts which kills her and [TS]

00:23:09   or puts her locks into it no kills her [TS]

00:23:11   sort of steals her son who is then hates [TS]

00:23:14   him his daughter Miranda supplants [TS]

00:23:17   Caliban was this awful creature and Iran [TS]

00:23:20   is pretty and Prospero has taken the [TS]

00:23:22   generative function from the witch and [TS]

00:23:23   now as a male has sort of two generative [TS]

00:23:25   functions is the function of magic and [TS]

00:23:27   he has the you know literal organ of [TS]

00:23:29   generation right so I'm being very [TS]

00:23:31   liquid but it's true and I think I [TS]

00:23:32   wouldn't argue that Palmer's influenced [TS]

00:23:34   by some of these same ideas because in [TS]

00:23:36   the book there are no mothers of course [TS]

00:23:37   Winslow's mother is gone [TS]

00:23:40   she's been transformed his father tells [TS]

00:23:41   these insane stories we have to turn [TS]

00:23:44   into a pillar of salt but she probably [TS]

00:23:46   just ran away his sister is crazy [TS]

00:23:50   his sister's friends are insane and [TS]

00:23:52   ultimately lead to her spoiler horn [TS]

00:23:55   right spoiler letters of eyes [TS]

00:23:57   yes sort of and you can talk about this [TS]

00:23:59   book without spoilers [TS]

00:24:00   yeah there's also put in her answer has [TS]

00:24:02   no mother ostensibly we don't know of [TS]

00:24:04   any mother she's adopted and Miranda [TS]

00:24:06   herself is an incredibly odd duck as a [TS]

00:24:08   woman she's not allowed to express her [TS]

00:24:10   generating function so there's all of [TS]

00:24:12   this like there's no women all the women [TS]

00:24:14   are crazy or all the women are being [TS]

00:24:15   suppressed me Lock this little girl [TS]

00:24:17   pattern and then I find one of most [TS]

00:24:19   interesting underdeveloped characters in [TS]

00:24:21   the book is Ophelia one of his [TS]

00:24:22   co-workers I was gonna send ya a little [TS]

00:24:25   feeling she's like six foot tall and [TS]

00:24:27   beautiful and creative and she's the [TS]

00:24:28   only [TS]

00:24:29   the optimistic person in the book right [TS]

00:24:31   so impressed with any hope and as a [TS]

00:24:34   result they're sort of ridiculous even [TS]

00:24:35   though she could have this marvelous [TS]

00:24:37   like she's in the wrong time cityplace [TS]

00:24:39   novel and she's she's also she repels [TS]

00:24:42   the advances of the idiot men who she [TS]

00:24:45   works with and and yeah when you [TS]

00:24:47   mentioned we mentioned no women in the [TS]

00:24:48   book I was gonna say well there is a [TS]

00:24:50   filia and she's you know speaking of [TS]

00:24:52   characters named for Shakespeare plays [TS]

00:24:55   and but she's and she's not like the [TS]

00:24:58   other female characters and it's not [TS]

00:25:00   like anybody else in the book basically [TS]

00:25:02   that's true she's awesome i love you i [TS]

00:25:04   like the book of her life and positive [TS]

00:25:06   novel in which there's creativity and [TS]

00:25:08   she's living a I want all the history of [TS]

00:25:10   affiliate because she is interesting I [TS]

00:25:11   mean that is part of the problem with [TS]

00:25:13   the novel for me is that is that you [TS]

00:25:15   start out ice usually start when i read [TS]

00:25:17   a book I whether it's nonfiction and [TS]

00:25:19   fiction i assume there will likely be [TS]

00:25:21   interesting characters and possibly [TS]

00:25:22   likable ones but when i finish this book [TS]

00:25:25   I wasn't sure that I liked except for [TS]

00:25:26   feel perhaps anybody in it at all and [TS]

00:25:29   and that I always find that disturbing [TS]

00:25:30   phenomenon that I get to the end I'm [TS]

00:25:32   like oh I really wasn't even the where [TS]

00:25:34   my sympathies were with one of the other [TS]

00:25:35   like Winslow is such an antihero that I [TS]

00:25:38   don't even like him at the end really [TS]

00:25:40   not much Scott are you blown away by the [TS]

00:25:44   lens analysis I I beach less I was [TS]

00:25:47   trying to think if there are any [TS]

00:25:49   characters in the book that I like I [TS]

00:25:51   mean I like I kind of like prospero [TS]

00:25:54   taligent even though I know he's not [TS]

00:25:56   you're not supposed to like him but I [TS]

00:25:59   feel sorry for him and like him at the [TS]

00:26:01   same time because he wants to he spent [TS]

00:26:03   so much time building the future and [TS]

00:26:06   then he decides and this has been [TS]

00:26:09   probably good and so he wants to be [TS]

00:26:11   frozen for a hundred years it in a [TS]

00:26:14   machine that he builds around by [TS]

00:26:17   sacrificing his daughter but the machine [TS]

00:26:20   is failing so his lifework is amounts to [TS]

00:26:24   nothing and one assumes at the end [TS]

00:26:27   Harold tells us that hairline cracks are [TS]

00:26:30   appearing around the glass that in [TS]

00:26:31   pieces the the frozen body uh Prospero [TS]

00:26:35   so you you know that it [TS]

00:26:37   things are not going to end well for [TS]

00:26:38   anybody so it's kind of sad that he [TS]

00:26:41   spent so much time trying to improve the [TS]

00:26:42   world and he does he I don't be improved [TS]

00:26:46   and nobody tried to any kind of turns it [TS]

00:26:48   into this this horrible place that no [TS]

00:26:51   one is happy and and you know [TS]

00:26:54   mechanical men are going running rampant [TS]

00:26:56   and all the mobs of the mobs of the fake [TS]

00:26:59   mechanical man are reaching the rooftop [TS]

00:27:01   of his tower so that basically people [TS]

00:27:03   are rebelling against his technology as [TS]

00:27:05   he's wants to depart on the Zeppelin but [TS]

00:27:07   he asked to be shot dead first so that [TS]

00:27:10   he can then be cryogenically frozen when [TS]

00:27:13   you see and it's all I've it's all [TS]

00:27:15   falling apart but in the end the [TS]

00:27:17   perpetual motion machine is running down [TS]

00:27:19   its not a perpetual motion machine in [TS]

00:27:22   the end his his cryogenic chamber is [TS]

00:27:25   failing so it all it you know it all [TS]

00:27:28   comes apart 44 prosper despite all of [TS]

00:27:31   his best intense [TS]

00:27:32   oh and we should mention his other [TS]

00:27:33   creation Caliban who is basically before [TS]

00:27:37   before that I want to start us back to [TS]

00:27:39   the generative function thing is that [TS]

00:27:40   yes please let's see that they've been [TS]

00:27:42   met with Mencius ok so this is no but [TS]

00:27:44   this is I think this is intended i mean [TS]

00:27:46   there's a lot of a whip cream style [TS]

00:27:48   stuff in the books I think he's trying [TS]

00:27:50   to get a reading that is something like [TS]

00:27:51   this when you know it when prosperous [TS]

00:27:54   seizes the generative function right [TS]

00:27:55   he's gotten you know women produce [TS]

00:27:56   babies men are supposed to start the [TS]

00:27:58   process and that's it in the most [TS]

00:28:00   superficial way can render that right [TS]

00:28:02   and Prospero taligent by having sees [TS]

00:28:05   that function bye-bye to generate [TS]

00:28:07   everything generates is imperfect he [TS]

00:28:09   cannot create his childhood officer he [TS]

00:28:11   cannot create perfection of her he must [TS]

00:28:12   destroy her to create his wrong in [TS]

00:28:15   perfect vision his dynamos fail his [TS]

00:28:17   Zeppelin fails his plans ultimately come [TS]

00:28:20   to not because as a man he's not allowed [TS]

00:28:22   to create things that are new [TS]

00:28:24   I mean that's the structure which allows [TS]

00:28:25   criticism occurs in and I think that's [TS]

00:28:27   intentional that he lacks the you know [TS]

00:28:30   empathy he lacks not just love women [TS]

00:28:32   feelings but he lacks the component [TS]

00:28:34   there's no partnership with it he is a [TS]

00:28:36   Dominator he's trying to take control is [TS]

00:28:37   trying to seize from nature or whatever [TS]

00:28:39   and it is inevitably going to fail as a [TS]

00:28:41   result and I mean that's set up also [TS]

00:28:43   early in the book [TS]

00:28:44   hair hat Harold is listening to a radio [TS]

00:28:47   in his bed and he's flipping through [TS]

00:28:51   channels and we hear bits and pieces of [TS]

00:28:53   the broadcast and one of the broadcast [TS]

00:28:55   is coming from the top of television [TS]

00:28:57   tower where Prospero is unveiling a an [TS]

00:29:01   airship that he thinks they've gotten [TS]

00:29:03   the kinks worked out of and so the mayor [TS]

00:29:06   is 0v land like mrs. 0 billboard the the [TS]

00:29:10   aircraft and you know pageantry and it [TS]

00:29:13   then explodes and jeans they are all [TS]

00:29:16   died and prospers like my bad [TS]

00:29:18   so hehe forgotten already [TS]

00:29:22   yeah it's not good in there other was [TS]

00:29:27   onnn in that same scene there is on the [TS]

00:29:30   radio there's an interview where a [TS]

00:29:32   presenter is talking to some scientists [TS]

00:29:34   and he's like oh we've just created this [TS]

00:29:36   drink that you drink and it will give [TS]

00:29:38   you a full meal and you don't have to [TS]

00:29:39   worry and the woman's like oh that's [TS]

00:29:41   amazing and so she drinks it and she [TS]

00:29:42   says is I taste the steak and the guys [TS]

00:29:45   like oh yeah that's what you're supposed [TS]

00:29:46   to taste and she says oh I feel so full [TS]

00:29:48   and the scientists like yes it works [TS]

00:29:51   well and then she says oh my god [TS]

00:29:53   physical / full what have you done to me [TS]

00:29:56   that the transmission ends which i think [TS]

00:29:59   is very well really wanna thank you [TS]

00:30:01   Willy Wonka again we're getting you know [TS]

00:30:03   it's not that not accidental [TS]

00:30:05   no no notnot there's definitely that yet [TS]

00:30:08   again failure you know nature trying to [TS]

00:30:10   subvert nature the failure you cannot [TS]

00:30:12   make things you can even there's a [TS]

00:30:13   tyrosine and typesetting shop near and [TS]

00:30:15   dear to my heart of course [TS]

00:30:16   so even though they have the internet [TS]

00:30:18   there apparently still setting type by [TS]

00:30:19   hand which i love with LED type so it's [TS]

00:30:22   great contrasts even though i may be [TS]

00:30:24   doing that in a classroom taking right [TS]

00:30:26   now I'm doing that purposely not as a [TS]

00:30:28   commercial venture and I robot is [TS]

00:30:30   ironically i've seen you contributed [TS]

00:30:32   ironically when my fingers are crushed [TS]

00:30:34   in the rollers those are ironic fingers [TS]

00:30:36   being crushed by the spread of [TS]

00:30:38   Technology March the midst of the scene [TS]

00:30:40   with the keys where Harold job is to sit [TS]

00:30:43   there to make sure that typesetting [TS]

00:30:44   metal men don't go insane or berserk [TS]

00:30:46   while they're doing routine projects [TS]

00:30:48   overnight is many tunes and here's [TS]

00:30:51   Miranda broadcasting but again it's like [TS]

00:30:53   it's just this nothing can be nothing [TS]

00:30:56   goes right in the book even you know [TS]

00:30:58   television hasn't really improved [TS]

00:30:59   everyone's life in fact he sort of [TS]

00:31:01   increasingly ruined everyone's life in [TS]

00:31:03   the world by automating functions that [TS]

00:31:05   were performed by [TS]

00:31:06   fuckers that now I have no jobs and he's [TS]

00:31:09   not seen as a force of good not just [TS]

00:31:10   that he's evil and I sort of beyond [TS]

00:31:13   morality by being you know and so in [TS]

00:31:15   charge of things but he's just not [TS]

00:31:17   actually really helping anybody not even [TS]

00:31:18   himself in the end and to get a title of [TS]

00:31:22   the book not to bring it all the way [TS]

00:31:23   around to that but it's the dream of [TS]

00:31:26   perpetual motion right and it right away [TS]

00:31:28   we're told that the perpetual motion [TS]

00:31:30   machine is probably although it's been [TS]

00:31:33   promised no no it's a professional [TS]

00:31:35   motion machine it really it's gonna just [TS]

00:31:36   keep on running [TS]

00:31:37   Harold is up there in this episode [TS]

00:31:39   saying it's not know I'm getting closer [TS]

00:31:41   to the ground here so it that the very [TS]

00:31:44   dream of perpetual motion is a failure [TS]

00:31:46   it and it is the sort of cat the [TS]

00:31:49   crowning achievement of Prospero [TS]

00:31:51   intelligence high aspirations and [TS]

00:31:55   bandaged it is the crowning failure of [TS]

00:31:58   his life [TS]

00:31:59   oh i think there's a mystery encoded in [TS]

00:32:01   that part 2 I wanted to ask you fellows [TS]

00:32:02   because somewhere around two-thirds away [TS]

00:32:05   in the book uh there's a point at which [TS]

00:32:07   the book i think becomes enormously [TS]

00:32:09   better become sort of an action story [TS]

00:32:10   and I and I really zoom through the rest [TS]

00:32:12   of the book at that point I think it's [TS]

00:32:14   about this point it's 10 years before [TS]

00:32:16   the Zeppelin's seen if i'm remembering [TS]

00:32:18   right and I the there's a report that [TS]

00:32:21   comes out this is a prospectus [TS]

00:32:23   television just told the staff of his [TS]

00:32:24   company that he is working on you know [TS]

00:32:25   devoting his aims to creating a [TS]

00:32:27   perpetual motion machine and was [TS]

00:32:29   thinking machines machines really fought [TS]

00:32:31   and remembering that right i don't [TS]

00:32:32   remember but I think these are key [TS]

00:32:33   points because at the end of the book as [TS]

00:32:35   is revealed [TS]

00:32:36   Harold believes that Miranda has been [TS]

00:32:39   transformed she's been physically [TS]

00:32:40   transformed by a process is want to [TS]

00:32:42   describe because words are killing [TS]

00:32:45   things that by describing he destroys [TS]

00:32:46   the thing that's been created again with [TS]

00:32:49   you know the generative sup and so she [TS]

00:32:52   may be the perpetual motion machine and [TS]

00:32:54   although she is running down we don't [TS]

00:32:55   know about what process she works but I [TS]

00:32:57   thought part of it was hidden in there [TS]

00:32:59   was the announcement that was made a [TS]

00:33:01   leak from inside the company i assumed [TS]

00:33:03   from the very first moment I open this [TS]

00:33:05   book when i first read about Miranda [TS]

00:33:07   being extensively bodyless he cannot [TS]

00:33:09   find his don't know where she's in the [TS]

00:33:10   Zeppelin she's talking continuously [TS]

00:33:12   without cease and he will not speak to [TS]

00:33:15   her when it will read that part of like [TS]

00:33:16   oh well prosper is probably turned into [TS]

00:33:18   her into some kind of [TS]

00:33:19   machine brain and she's running the [TS]

00:33:21   Zeppelin that's the great secret and at [TS]

00:33:23   the end of the book i was like maybe not [TS]

00:33:25   like well maybe that was what supposed [TS]

00:33:27   to be intense she's not only become this [TS]

00:33:28   creature that is beyond description that [TS]

00:33:31   maybe breathe hydrogen for all Harold [TS]

00:33:33   knows or understands but that she is [TS]

00:33:35   also mechanical what do you think about [TS]

00:33:37   that my reading too much in it does [TS]

00:33:39   create a mechanical Miranda when they're [TS]

00:33:42   uh here since the playroom right and [TS]

00:33:45   Harold Miranda play together in this [TS]

00:33:47   playroom and Harold's favorite part is [TS]

00:33:50   when so Prospero also has sentence [TS]

00:33:53   mechanical monsters in for them to fight [TS]

00:33:55   in you know so they can pretend to fight [TS]

00:33:57   him and Harold protects Miranda and at [TS]

00:34:01   one point Harold comes across Miranda [TS]

00:34:04   and she's crying and she says don't [TS]

00:34:05   touch me don't touch me and she's [TS]

00:34:06   ripping out her hair and bleeding all [TS]

00:34:08   over and Harold doesn't know what to do [TS]

00:34:10   and then Miranda peeks out from behind a [TS]

00:34:13   tree and says silly you were trying to [TS]

00:34:14   save the monster has a great moment so I [TS]

00:34:18   mean clearly he could have created a [TS]

00:34:20   mechanical Miranda and but it will take [TS]

00:34:23   it wherever Miranda came from though I [TS]

00:34:24   mean by the end she is essentially his [TS]

00:34:27   creation because he's right he's really [TS]

00:34:29   he's taken her apart and turned her into [TS]

00:34:31   the dr his his ultimate intention them [TS]

00:34:34   at the perpetual motion machine which [TS]

00:34:37   which is you know his control he doesn't [TS]

00:34:39   want to change he doesn't want to become [TS]

00:34:40   a woman that doesn't go so well and so [TS]

00:34:44   then he he decides he's gonna transform [TS]

00:34:46   her into something else which you know [TS]

00:34:48   apparently doesn't go so well either [TS]

00:34:50   although Glenn it's something you [TS]

00:34:52   mentioned you know the way the bookends [TS]

00:34:55   is that Harold starts he says hello to [TS]

00:34:58   Miranda right which has refused to speak [TS]

00:34:59   to her the entire time and that's all [TS]

00:35:02   she wants so there is that question to [TS]

00:35:04   at the end is is you know is that a is [TS]

00:35:08   that important is that a transformative [TS]

00:35:10   act that that may be what's going on in [TS]

00:35:12   the Zeppelin you know is happening [TS]

00:35:15   because he refuses to speak to her and [TS]

00:35:16   acknowledge her presence [TS]

00:35:17   oh so that's a very good i hadn't [TS]

00:35:19   thought about that she's running down [TS]

00:35:20   because right that you need the [TS]

00:35:22   interplay that's my prosper wanted him [TS]

00:35:24   on board he didn't need Harold to be on [TS]

00:35:26   board he wanted to fill his dream but [TS]

00:35:28   he'd already sorted fulfilled [TS]

00:35:30   is you know dearest wish earlier sort of [TS]

00:35:32   what he says the happiest you've been I [TS]

00:35:34   mean I like the whole bit more [TS]

00:35:35   prosperous halogen says I'm not giving [TS]

00:35:37   you what you want i'm giving you it was [TS]

00:35:39   he says I'm not giving you something [TS]

00:35:42   makes you happy i'm giving you what you [TS]

00:35:43   want which is that for ya [TS]

00:35:46   praying everything so prosperous setup [TS]

00:35:48   that Harold doesn't want to save Miranda [TS]

00:35:51   he wants that moment where he's about to [TS]

00:35:54   save marantz right and so that's why [TS]

00:35:56   he's on the Zeppelin he can never find [TS]

00:35:58   her [TS]

00:35:58   he knows she's there oh he's always been [TS]

00:36:00   continually exactly [TS]

00:36:02   well it is also by the way the [TS]

00:36:04   mechanical thing I was thinking there's [TS]

00:36:06   a part when he and the portrait maker [TS]

00:36:08   prosper in the portrait maker are [TS]

00:36:10   setting 18 months disassembling [TS]

00:36:12   physically disassembling Brandon doing [TS]

00:36:14   terrible things to her as they say he [TS]

00:36:17   says at some point the portrait maker [TS]

00:36:18   describes prosperous saying like well [TS]

00:36:20   now now you have FX about the [TS]

00:36:22   information sent matrix you know mean [TS]

00:36:24   essentially the brain and I'm thinking [TS]

00:36:26   well that's the point at which they have [TS]

00:36:28   eliminated her that they've you know [TS]

00:36:29   they've disassembled Miranda the point [TS]

00:36:31   that they have removed to her brain [TS]

00:36:33   maybe they digitize that maybe they've [TS]

00:36:35   done something but that's inevitable we [TS]

00:36:37   don't know but where is transformed into [TS]

00:36:39   something different i'm thinking that [TS]

00:36:40   it's not something as simple as he made [TS]

00:36:41   her an Android but he took her out of [TS]

00:36:44   the realm of you know pure physicality [TS]

00:36:46   to transcend into you know this flying [TS]

00:36:50   machine whatever it does being the [TS]

00:36:52   impossible perpetual motion machine and [TS]

00:36:55   I think you know thinking about this now [TS]

00:36:56   Prospero has spent his entire life [TS]

00:36:58   changing the world so that he could stop [TS]

00:37:02   it right because everything he wants to [TS]

00:37:04   stop Miranda from growing up and he [TS]

00:37:05   wants to stop himself from dying so he's [TS]

00:37:08   constantly using change in order to [TS]

00:37:11   freeze a moment in time [TS]

00:37:13   that's very good I have a degree in [TS]

00:37:15   English Oh Bravo my degree is in [TS]

00:37:18   pretentiousness kid yourself Martin [TS]

00:37:21   upside-down arts I'm sorry [TS]

00:37:23   same thing so as the guy with the [TS]

00:37:27   communication degree i will not [TS]

00:37:29   communicate to you in this book know [TS]

00:37:31   this book is is is hard rowing at some [TS]

00:37:34   points right i mean i-i would find that [TS]

00:37:36   it was I would read a chapter and i [TS]

00:37:39   would still have 20 more minutes on my [TS]

00:37:41   bus ride and i would say to myself I [TS]

00:37:43   I can't read another chapter oh good you [TS]

00:37:45   2i I the hardest time getting through [TS]

00:37:47   the first two-thirds to three-quarters [TS]

00:37:48   on this book it it wasn't as if i was [TS]

00:37:51   having a hard time reading the chapter [TS]

00:37:53   it's just after a chapter was complete [TS]

00:37:55   they were so much in it and I felt [TS]

00:37:57   almost exhausted like I can't [TS]

00:37:59   ya know I can't do more of this right [TS]

00:38:01   now because it's it's you know it's very [TS]

00:38:03   dense at points i think actually [TS]

00:38:06   beautifully written although at that [TS]

00:38:09   point that you could argue over written [TS]

00:38:10   but I i but i really liked that he was [TS]

00:38:14   you know it it's not often you read a [TS]

00:38:17   book that that where the author is [TS]

00:38:19   trying so hard to write interesting [TS]

00:38:22   things in interesting ways and I really [TS]

00:38:24   appreciated it and at moments I was [TS]

00:38:26   really taken by the beauty of what he [TS]

00:38:28   was writing just the way he was writing [TS]

00:38:29   it but I would you know it was so it was [TS]

00:38:32   not a slog in the sense that i was in [TS]

00:38:33   the middle of a chapter and I with my [TS]

00:38:35   eyes are crossing and I just couldn't [TS]

00:38:36   bear to go on and I get to the end and [TS]

00:38:37   be like wow I need to I i'm not going to [TS]

00:38:40   read another one till tomorrow because I [TS]

00:38:42   need to take a little break and think [TS]

00:38:43   about what I just what i just read so [TS]

00:38:46   that goes on and you end and it does [TS]

00:38:48   pick up as you go I think that's true [TS]

00:38:50   Glenn that that that things start to [TS]

00:38:51   move a little bit faster i kept waiting [TS]

00:38:53   for more Zeppelin I wanted you know it's [TS]

00:38:55   me I wanted more Zeppelin's but then at [TS]

00:38:59   the very end when you're reaching the [TS]

00:39:01   climax and it's literally as Harold is [TS]

00:39:03   climbing to the top of the tower that we [TS]

00:39:05   have these two encounters the giant male [TS]

00:39:08   tower i'm sorry the message any member [TS]

00:39:10   of your piercing the sky its you have a [TS]

00:39:12   sec you'll and yes we got it back [TS]

00:39:15   I didn't get that uh they he's trying to [TS]

00:39:17   make the boy Palmer we're uh so so he's [TS]

00:39:20   ascending it the tower and we have these [TS]

00:39:22   two encounters with these guys who tell [TS]

00:39:25   stories and they're kinda long they're [TS]

00:39:27   fascinating but there they basically the [TS]

00:39:29   plot is paused so that we can go back in [TS]

00:39:31   time from a different perspective and [TS]

00:39:33   you've mentioned the one which is the [TS]

00:39:35   portrait maker who creates these [TS]

00:39:37   sculptures and then eventually aids and [TS]

00:39:39   abets Prospero in the modification of [TS]

00:39:41   Miranda into the perpetual motion [TS]

00:39:43   machine but there's also the guy who [TS]

00:39:45   works in like the coal pit [TS]

00:39:47   oh my god alone is not controlled fish [TS]

00:39:50   floor yet the coal pit being of course [TS]

00:39:52   at the top of the building a sensible [TS]

00:39:53   place orders from or something that's [TS]

00:39:55   where you would put [TS]

00:39:56   the culture i put i put all of my yeah [TS]

00:39:59   kool my smoke like probably workers are [TS]

00:40:03   always on the hunt Rossler i'm not on [TS]

00:40:05   the top floors of the building but [TS]

00:40:06   anyway it that when we haven't talked [TS]

00:40:08   about that that's another I mean you [TS]

00:40:10   know you grind the story to hold a [TS]

00:40:12   little bit to a halt [TS]

00:40:14   but that was that story seems to be [TS]

00:40:17   basically the story of the room the [TS]

00:40:20   truth of Miranda at least as much of a [TS]

00:40:23   truth is Miranda was allowed to have [TS]

00:40:25   which is but she has these repeated [TS]

00:40:28   sexual liaisons with the the guy who [TS]

00:40:31   works in the coal fire pit room whatever [TS]

00:40:35   it is and i thought it was interesting [TS]

00:40:37   that we we hear that story and then we [TS]

00:40:39   hear the story about you know the the [TS]

00:40:42   perfectionist vision of Prospero and how [TS]

00:40:46   he wants to have Miranda appear and it's [TS]

00:40:49   preceded by the story that's really the [TS]

00:40:51   real down-and-dirty story of a guy who's [TS]

00:40:53   you know covered in coal dust and and [TS]

00:40:55   this girl comes to him and they take a [TS]

00:40:57   tumble in the in the piles of coal and [TS]

00:40:59   how over and over again covered in cold [TS]

00:41:02   and it's just sort of fascinating under [TS]

00:41:03   rid of a hot sex scene about making love [TS]

00:41:06   on a cold mountain that's pretty [TS]

00:41:08   you haven't you haven't lived checkin [TS]

00:41:10   there are many men who have a call here [TS]

00:41:13   comal tax check finally I can check that [TS]

00:41:16   one off the Zeppelin's and the coal [TS]

00:41:18   mound sex scene home if that doesn't get [TS]

00:41:21   you to buy this book I don't know what's [TS]

00:41:23   going on hey we missed a if I may [TS]

00:41:25   interject as having to do a stream talk [TS]

00:41:28   about Astrid liaison III she's on my [TS]

00:41:30   list it so Harold sister Astrid who is a [TS]

00:41:33   an artist like a performance artist who [TS]

00:41:36   is like Ariel Ariel from the play that's [TS]

00:41:39   the sprite the magical sprite in the [TS]

00:41:41   play right well done well played okay [TS]

00:41:43   thank you [TS]

00:41:44   and she's an artist and she's surrounded [TS]

00:41:47   she's surrounded by absolutely horrible [TS]

00:41:49   horrible coast of RT people and actually [TS]

00:41:53   i loved i love those scenes and they [TS]

00:41:55   they can make your eyes cross because he [TS]

00:41:59   doesn't just say you know they said its [TS]

00:42:01   usual pretentious crap that people say [TS]

00:42:03   that these things he has the pages of [TS]

00:42:05   dialogue of the pretentious crap he [TS]

00:42:08   writes the pretentious craft for this [TS]

00:42:09   and it's it's and i loved it because it [TS]

00:42:12   made me laugh so much because I went to [TS]

00:42:14   I I like i said i have a communication [TS]

00:42:16   degree and it's the kind of degree you [TS]

00:42:18   get when you hear people talk like the [TS]

00:42:20   people in ad asteroids party and I [TS]

00:42:23   actually if I can if I can quote from it [TS]

00:42:26   briefly Glenn if you only on me but I [TS]

00:42:28   just point out your art communications [TS]

00:42:30   and english i think each of us knows [TS]

00:42:32   precisely the particular flavor of bull [TS]

00:42:35   yes yes involved but accidents doing [TS]

00:42:37   here is liberating language from the [TS]

00:42:39   patriarchy is this how critics talk [TS]

00:42:41   Harold's idea of an art critic of [TS]

00:42:43   someone who wanders through a gallery in [TS]

00:42:44   waves his arm in the general direction [TS]

00:42:45   of a painting while saying notice the [TS]

00:42:47   diagonal Astrid Charmaine says uh to [TS]

00:42:52   Harold realizes that we live in a world [TS]

00:42:54   in which and enduring patriarchal [TS]

00:42:56   hegemony there's my favorite word from [TS]

00:42:58   comm class has transformed the woman's [TS]

00:43:01   voice into a commodity x reprimanding [TS]

00:43:04   her own language and giving it a body as [TS]

00:43:05   Astrid has done here she embraces that [TS]

00:43:07   patriarchal desire to commodify while [TS]

00:43:10   subversively reaping the benefits of [TS]

00:43:12   that commodification oh that is so [TS]

00:43:15   perfect it's also accurate if you strip [TS]

00:43:17   all the other individuals from it's not [TS]

00:43:19   a description it's not BS i mean it is [TS]

00:43:21   it is it is phrased in the right [TS]

00:43:24   language and yet she's not saying [TS]

00:43:25   nonsense she is saying exactly what [TS]

00:43:27   astronauts doing so asteroids art ends [TS]

00:43:30   up being something that she sort of [TS]

00:43:32   lifts from Harold in their conversation [TS]

00:43:35   in the silence bar which we also should [TS]

00:43:38   talk about this bar but before we get to [TS]

00:43:40   the silence bar it's fast because she [TS]

00:43:42   ends up building [TS]

00:43:43   eh-eh-eh-eh sound sound sculpture [TS]

00:43:48   because Carol goes on this rant that you [TS]

00:43:50   know again I mean there's so much here [TS]

00:43:51   that we keep we keep bouncing around he [TS]

00:43:53   goes on this rant about sounds and how [TS]

00:43:55   there are more sounds and every day as [TS]

00:43:57   the industry creates new things that [TS]

00:43:59   there are more sounds at some point he's [TS]

00:44:01   concerned that that all the sounds will [TS]

00:44:03   cancel each other out and then we'll be [TS]

00:44:05   billions of machines everywhere and it [TS]

00:44:08   will be completely silent because it's [TS]

00:44:10   nothing but noise and chance he wants to [TS]

00:44:13   shut out all the sound that's a kind of [TS]

00:44:14   a go a theme here that's how he goes up [TS]

00:44:17   in the telescope it will escape the [TS]

00:44:18   noise of the heart [TS]

00:44:20   Prospero calls back to that when he says [TS]

00:44:21   this is how you get away from the noise [TS]

00:44:22   myself one is perfectly quiet and of [TS]

00:44:26   course over time that breaks down the [TS]

00:44:27   noise creeps into the supplement to as [TS]

00:44:29   the perpetual motion machine and as the [TS]

00:44:31   Harold Harold has a series of recurring [TS]

00:44:33   nightmares where the virgin queen is [TS]

00:44:36   going to commit suicide and he only he [TS]

00:44:39   can save her and then the first dream he [TS]

00:44:41   supposed to say the exact word that will [TS]

00:44:43   save her but it can't think of the word [TS]

00:44:45   and then the second iteration of the [TS]

00:44:47   dream she's at the edge [TS]

00:44:49   he's about to say something he's trying [TS]

00:44:52   to say something to her and then he [TS]

00:44:53   notices an exact a negative of himself [TS]

00:44:57   who is saying what he's saying backwards [TS]

00:45:00   and canceling it out so that virgin [TS]

00:45:03   queen cannot hear anything [TS]

00:45:04   well in that you know Astros is pre [TS]

00:45:07   capitulating to get recapitulated she is [TS]

00:45:09   auntie capitulating what happens to [TS]

00:45:11   miranda is that it although but asteroid [TS]

00:45:14   has the means of our own destruction [TS]

00:45:15   your own hands and she regrets it [TS]

00:45:17   ostensibly that she you know she she [TS]

00:45:20   uses the pizza delivery guy which I love [TS]

00:45:22   again the mail setting action into [TS]

00:45:24   motion [TS]

00:45:24   yes I wasn't coming also let's also talk [TS]

00:45:26   about how I i love the the as we have [TS]

00:45:29   all pretentious and lick lick pretty [TS]

00:45:31   here [TS]

00:45:32   the unpretentious thing that kicks off [TS]

00:45:36   the pretentious suicidal our experiment [TS]

00:45:38   is she orders a pizza and I think it's a [TS]

00:45:41   delivery boy opens the door and kills [TS]

00:45:43   her and sets off the whole thing and i [TS]

00:45:45   love that juxtaposition that's so great [TS]

00:45:47   that it's just this you know Pete kind [TS]

00:45:48   of a well he's kind of hot for her knee [TS]

00:45:51   it and he's really excited to meet her [TS]

00:45:54   and and then he opened the door and she [TS]

00:45:56   dies but in that's the thing is that the [TS]

00:45:58   AI I think that's sort of part of the [TS]

00:45:59   asteroid is brilliant also is like [TS]

00:46:01   Astrid well i guess i should ask you to [TS]

00:46:03   feel you because you know i should say [TS]

00:46:05   that's funny i was saying originally [TS]

00:46:07   there are no you know there's very few [TS]

00:46:09   women in this book but all that Miranda [TS]

00:46:11   astron filia are all aspects and all [TS]

00:46:13   fascinating Astra's hoot because she's [TS]

00:46:16   slightly insane she speaks the truth [TS]

00:46:17   she's does things that are unacceptable [TS]

00:46:19   and she just doesn't matter is what she [TS]

00:46:21   means to do so when she built this [TS]

00:46:23   unbelievable contraption that's what [TS]

00:46:25   that's what do cancel noise out creates [TS]

00:46:28   this thing and then then burns her alive [TS]

00:46:30   encasing her in bronze [TS]

00:46:31   at the same time and she's freezes the [TS]

00:46:34   moment right the noise stops and she [TS]

00:46:36   stops aging she's even internally [TS]

00:46:38   preserved in the same form because his [TS]

00:46:41   bronze cheating on bronze point Pope [TS]

00:46:43   poured over her and she's permanently [TS]

00:46:45   fixed ok so here's my question i read [TS]

00:46:48   this a few times and I can't tell i'm [TS]

00:46:50   sure maybe just meant for it to be [TS]

00:46:51   ambiguous I don't say that there is an [TS]

00:46:52   answer but you know her pretentious [TS]

00:46:55   friend tells the police she said I don't [TS]

00:46:57   have the phrase that better be the [TS]

00:46:58   smiling but buttered spleen right isn't [TS]

00:47:01   that what she says right and the police [TS]

00:47:03   say well the pizza delivery guy said she [TS]

00:47:05   said stop the machine [TS]

00:47:07   yes meeting stop the sense that she [TS]

00:47:09   regretted did she get some friends [TS]

00:47:11   locked into the cabin how is that my rat [TS]

00:47:13   here for hours with her but she told the [TS]

00:47:16   police the delivery guy to come in so my [TS]

00:47:18   question is did she regretted the last [TS]

00:47:20   moment over to your friends kill her [TS]

00:47:22   I I the way I read it is that she [TS]

00:47:24   regretted at the last minute like [TS]

00:47:25   anybody would it's the it's that you [TS]

00:47:28   know she comes up with this great idea [TS]

00:47:29   but face at the moment of her own death [TS]

00:47:31   she begs to not die and it's too late [TS]

00:47:34   the the art world is looking on and it's [TS]

00:47:37   time for her performance butter lean and [TS]

00:47:40   that becomes part of the performance [TS]

00:47:42   right that'll load up so doesn't it but [TS]

00:47:44   it's clean now [TS]

00:47:46   oh that reminds you that I I wonder [TS]

00:47:50   myself so let's talk about the salad bar [TS]

00:47:52   if you don't mind I was that let us know [TS]

00:47:54   another nice another nice thing the they [TS]

00:47:57   go to a dingo part of town where people [TS]

00:47:59   don't communicate is that is that right [TS]

00:48:01   except no you're not but poorly right [TS]

00:48:04   that they communicate with written and [TS]

00:48:08   hand gestures right is that it yeah and [TS]

00:48:10   I think that's it's the whole idea again [TS]

00:48:12   of that the people want to escape the [TS]

00:48:13   constant sounds that are around them so [TS]

00:48:16   you go to the silent bar so they don't [TS]

00:48:18   have to hear one another but then Astrid [TS]

00:48:21   wanders in and just starts talking [TS]

00:48:23   really loudly and and everybody is [TS]

00:48:25   looking at her and is offended but but [TS]

00:48:27   Harold's got his little pile of cards [TS]

00:48:30   and he starts drawing around and and and [TS]

00:48:32   and that ends up being the source of her [TS]

00:48:34   inspiration for the for the art project [TS]

00:48:37   but first she's first she takes the [TS]

00:48:39   cards and then turns it into a paintings [TS]

00:48:41   or statements right which is what gets [TS]

00:48:43   her the show to start with [TS]

00:48:44   right right that where he meets dexter [TS]

00:48:47   Palmer be perfect and here's all the [TS]

00:48:49   pretentious dialogue about asteroids are [TS]

00:48:51   you know it's funny as we talked about [TS]

00:48:53   this book I like this book more [TS]

00:48:54   unpacking it into all of its component [TS]

00:48:57   elements much as if I were redesigning [TS]

00:48:59   Miranda to suit my own images then I did [TS]

00:49:02   when actually reading and i think i just [TS]

00:49:04   want to ask if you either of you enjoyed [TS]

00:49:07   this book or if you liked it i should [TS]

00:49:09   say that's a good question gland did you [TS]

00:49:12   did you like I mean I've already said [TS]

00:49:14   that it was a bit of a trial at times [TS]

00:49:16   for me to get through a chapter and then [TS]

00:49:18   i have to take a break but did you like [TS]

00:49:20   reading it I did not enjoy reading the [TS]

00:49:22   book until we got to the last like i was [TS]

00:49:24   saying last quarter so and then i zoom [TS]

00:49:26   through that it felt like a different [TS]

00:49:27   book even though informant was the same [TS]

00:49:30   but i think he finally had to set all [TS]

00:49:32   the machinery in is I think the first [TS]

00:49:33   three quarters of the book he's building [TS]

00:49:36   the mechanism [TS]

00:49:36   I'm sorry I'm being so pretentious on [TS]

00:49:38   his pockets he's building convective and [TS]

00:49:40   he's putting all the clockwork into [TS]

00:49:41   position and telling us all the pieces [TS]

00:49:43   that have to come together and you're [TS]

00:49:44   sitting there wondering when does this [TS]

00:49:46   whole watch start ticking or does it [TS]

00:49:47   fall to the floor as a bunch of gears [TS]

00:49:49   and then once that sets the emotions and [TS]

00:49:51   i'm like i zoom through i mean i think [TS]

00:49:53   it took me five or six week literally in [TS]

00:49:55   like several page increments to get [TS]

00:49:57   first through the first three quarters [TS]

00:49:58   and the last part i read in a you know [TS]

00:50:00   an hour to so I I wouldn't say I like [TS]

00:50:03   reading it but I'm i like thinking about [TS]

00:50:05   the book more after having read it then [TS]

00:50:07   I did Rita you know interpreting it [TS]

00:50:09   while i read it [TS]

00:50:10   yeah i think i would say the same thing [TS]

00:50:13   is that is that while I was reading it I [TS]

00:50:14   really enjoyed the writing it's not [TS]

00:50:16   every book i read it's actually pretty [TS]

00:50:18   rare that I sit there and I think wow [TS]

00:50:19   this is you know this is beautifully [TS]

00:50:22   written and that was really what I kept [TS]

00:50:23   thinking is this is a weird book but [TS]

00:50:25   it's kind of beautiful and the and the [TS]

00:50:26   writing is beautiful and the setting is [TS]

00:50:28   so detailed and strange there it is a [TS]

00:50:31   little off-putting and the characters [TS]

00:50:33   are kind of off-putting and like i said [TS]

00:50:34   i add it was so dense at times that I [TS]

00:50:36   felt like I needed to take a break and [TS]

00:50:38   not just kind of go to the next chapter [TS]

00:50:40   but I needed to actually like decompress [TS]

00:50:42   a little bit before i can and unpack [TS]

00:50:44   what I just read before I could move on [TS]

00:50:47   which is much more of the kind of I [TS]

00:50:48   think you get that from a book that you [TS]

00:50:50   were assigned in college and a little [TS]

00:50:52   class it is that kind of feeling of this [TS]

00:50:54   is not just a page-turner this there's a [TS]

00:50:56   lot of stuff going on here [TS]

00:50:57   but in the end i did like it and you [TS]

00:50:59   know what I told my wife i was reading [TS]

00:51:01   it is i'm reading this crazy book but [TS]

00:51:03   it's kind of beautiful but it's really [TS]

00:51:05   really strange not like anything I've [TS]

00:51:08   really ever read although it's got [TS]

00:51:10   pieces of the bunch of different stuff [TS]

00:51:11   right all the way down to two charlie [TS]

00:51:13   and the chocolate factory so I too liked [TS]

00:51:16   it [TS]

00:51:16   Scott what about you well I think that [TS]

00:51:19   it was so I read it when it like a [TS]

00:51:22   couple months after first came out last [TS]

00:51:23   so probably about a year ago today in [TS]

00:51:26   fact and i thought it was the best book [TS]

00:51:28   I've read all year i really enjoyed it [TS]

00:51:32   and I do not read books generally just [TS]

00:51:36   because I don't but I in preparation for [TS]

00:51:40   this podcast i reread about 75% of the [TS]

00:51:43   book and I enjoyed it even more [TS]

00:51:45   I i think that it is just that I think [TS]

00:51:49   it's a great book but i don't and i [TS]

00:51:50   recommend it to people but kind of Edo [TS]

00:51:53   yeah haha hesitantly because i don't [TS]

00:51:56   think that it is for everyone [TS]

00:51:58   like I told my wife she had to read it [TS]

00:52:00   and she read the first like 10 pages and [TS]

00:52:03   said I'm not reading this book i think [TS]

00:52:05   they had more dead than just fair i read [TS]

00:52:07   this book for you Scott I read this book [TS]

00:52:09   for you [TS]

00:52:09   Thank You Glenn but I really really [TS]

00:52:13   liked it [TS]

00:52:14   yes well I i liked it i I definitely did [TS]

00:52:18   like it but it is a challenge and it is [TS]

00:52:19   not the kind of book I yeah that i would [TS]

00:52:22   recommend for somebody who just wants a [TS]

00:52:24   fun book to read I only if you want a [TS]

00:52:26   fun book to read [TS]

00:52:26   don't read this pie i'm glad that you [TS]

00:52:28   suggested it though because it is also [TS]

00:52:29   not the kind of book i'll often stop and [TS]

00:52:31   get stalled in books like this like I [TS]

00:52:32   did and the notion that we're actually [TS]

00:52:34   to talk about it made me read it and I'm [TS]

00:52:35   glad I did I mean even books and I hate [TS]

00:52:37   and sometimes often glad i read because [TS]

00:52:40   if they give me fodder for thought [TS]

00:52:41   that's good enough but I love with new [TS]

00:52:43   ideas new ways picking this book I [TS]

00:52:45   certainly found fascinating even if I [TS]

00:52:46   couldn't say exactly like it so I think [TS]

00:52:48   thank you Scott it's the very definition [TS]

00:52:50   of a good book club book it's the kind [TS]

00:52:52   of book that you need to be I think [TS]

00:52:53   maybe motivated to read a little bit and [TS]

00:52:56   then have the promise of being able to [TS]

00:52:57   kind of discuss it and unpack it with a [TS]

00:52:59   group later because it really i think [TS]

00:53:02   benefits from walking through all of the [TS]

00:53:05   different things like we have done here [TS]

00:53:06   i think i think it really helps because [TS]

00:53:08   there is so much in there and if you [TS]

00:53:10   just kind of flip through [TS]

00:53:11   and then and then move on to the next [TS]

00:53:12   thing and don't really consider it i [TS]

00:53:14   think you're missing the best feature of [TS]

00:53:16   this book which is there's a lot of to [TS]

00:53:18   come over afterward and there's still a [TS]

00:53:21   lot of stuff we haven't even talked [TS]

00:53:22   about [TS]

00:53:23   I mean there's a there's a lot going on [TS]

00:53:24   in this book positions only this is only [TS]

00:53:26   book so far too right [TS]

00:53:27   i believe so i think it's pretty amazing [TS]

00:53:29   this is like random there's some s80 [TS]

00:53:31   test that you have like you may have [TS]

00:53:33   read his work yes was like Harkaway the [TS]

00:53:36   car away gone away well that's the only [TS]

00:53:39   book that's out now I think I told you [TS]

00:53:40   folks I for Congress article i talked to [TS]

00:53:43   the car away was a lovely lovely fellow [TS]

00:53:45   and he said something about having three [TS]

00:53:46   other novels i think two of them [TS]

00:53:49   completed that ostensibly we will get to [TS]

00:53:51   see in print at some point in the near [TS]

00:53:53   future so one hopes mr Palmer also isn't [TS]

00:53:55   the same situation that will be more he [TS]

00:53:57   hasn't shot everything he's ever thought [TS]

00:53:59   about in a single model and during our [TS]

00:54:01   Harkaway podcast i gave him a hard time [TS]

00:54:03   for writing like showing off his writing [TS]

00:54:08   prowess which i think is in fact what [TS]

00:54:11   the dream of perpetual motion the entire [TS]

00:54:13   book is all about really yes that's true [TS]

00:54:15   and so I liked it in this book so i have [TS]

00:54:17   i've acknowledging that i am a hypocrite [TS]

00:54:20   we will now move on to that portion of [TS]

00:54:22   the show that i like to call what are [TS]

00:54:23   you reading where I asked the musical [TS]

00:54:25   question what are you reading Glen what [TS]

00:54:28   are you reading [TS]

00:54:29   i am going to briefly mention for things [TS]

00:54:31   very bright [TS]

00:54:32   I went back and read Charles use a after [TS]

00:54:35   Charles you podcast red third-class [TS]

00:54:38   superhero and I hated the book and we [TS]

00:54:40   can talk about this another time [TS]

00:54:41   it's I thought his novel the how to live [TS]

00:54:45   safely in a science fictional universe [TS]

00:54:46   from getting the title right i thought [TS]

00:54:48   was a was fasting and difficult and not [TS]

00:54:50   necessarily successful third-class [TS]

00:54:52   superhero has sort of one good story and [TS]

00:54:54   a bunch of masturbatory exercises in [TS]

00:54:56   writing that are like how to live safely [TS]

00:54:59   science fictional universe except much [TS]

00:55:00   less successful they'll say that about [TS]

00:55:03   that i'm also reading i started to read [TS]

00:55:05   have a problem finishing some of the [TS]

00:55:06   books I've started recently when i get [TS]

00:55:08   to a point and you know this happened [TS]

00:55:09   with a with the general perpetual motion [TS]

00:55:12   where I got through thinking of Scott [TS]

00:55:15   all the time I got to the book to a [TS]

00:55:17   point where I liked it so much as much [TS]

00:55:18   as i did and i'm reading Greg bears hall [TS]

00:55:21   0 3 which is starting out very tediously [TS]

00:55:23   about four [TS]

00:55:24   pages in and I'm yawning and trying to [TS]

00:55:26   figure out how to get further along and [TS]

00:55:28   i'm also reading to say nothing of the [TS]

00:55:29   dog [TS]

00:55:30   ah thank goodness yes and i find that [TS]

00:55:34   first part a little heart going but I'm [TS]

00:55:36   believing that it's going to pick up [TS]

00:55:37   because there are lots of indications it [TS]

00:55:39   really is i think i'm getting them [TS]

00:55:41   through the like in the dictionary [TS]

00:55:43   definition part in which the structure [TS]

00:55:44   of the universe is being explained to me [TS]

00:55:46   and once that's through I feel like [TS]

00:55:48   there's a story there once they're [TS]

00:55:49   punting on the cam Ripper you it is gold [TS]

00:55:53   that we've got a little still in the [TS]

00:55:54   hospital i'm waiting from to get out [TS]

00:55:56   that that part and then finally i'm [TS]

00:55:57   reading a James Tiptree jr. a biography [TS]

00:56:00   this is a one of the greatest science [TS]

00:56:02   fiction writers of all time who led a [TS]

00:56:04   double life who wrote under a male name [TS]

00:56:06   was thought by many of her peers to be a [TS]

00:56:08   male that was actually written by Alice [TS]

00:56:10   B Sheldon who has an extraordinary life [TS]

00:56:12   story including many trips to Africa [TS]

00:56:15   with her explorer parents a child in [TS]

00:56:17   places that no person no European or [TS]

00:56:19   even outside person ever visited in the [TS]

00:56:21   early nineteen hundreds extraordinary [TS]

00:56:23   person extraordinary writer [TS]

00:56:24   extraordinary depth and I hope we will [TS]

00:56:26   in the future get enough people to read [TS]

00:56:29   and I need to reread took trees [TS]

00:56:30   exquisitely aching stories and and do a [TS]

00:56:35   podcast about her and I even have a [TS]

00:56:36   special guest in mind who would [TS]

00:56:38   participate with us who knows the story [TS]

00:56:40   is quite well and used to judge the [TS]

00:56:42   James Tiptree jr. annual awards and [TS]

00:56:44   that's what I'm very nice [TS]

00:56:46   Scott what are you reading I am reading [TS]

00:56:48   less books than Glenn only one because [TS]

00:56:52   I'm an underachiever apparently it's but [TS]

00:56:54   it's on 85 kindle the same happened [TS]

00:56:56   that's true i can read in many different [TS]

00:56:58   places so i would I reading The Wise [TS]

00:57:01   Man's Fear which is by by Patrick [TS]

00:57:04   Rothfuss whatwhat's the wise man's fear [TS]

00:57:07   the wise man's fear which is a sequel to [TS]

00:57:11   the name of the wind are the name of the [TS]

00:57:13   wind and more and if only we were here [TS]

00:57:15   he loves that book i love that book as [TS]

00:57:17   well but sadly dan doesn't get to come [TS]

00:57:19   on the podcast because he didn't read [TS]

00:57:21   the dream of perpetual motion designer [TS]

00:57:23   read and now we're told him haha ahead [TS]

00:57:26   so so it is a highly anticipated sequel [TS]

00:57:28   it just came out this fantasy this is [TS]

00:57:31   fantasy [TS]

00:57:31   this is a you know 900 pages of fantasy [TS]

00:57:34   Wow [TS]

00:57:36   and it's okay i'm apparently so i'm [TS]

00:57:38   looking at amazon.com and the first book [TS]

00:57:40   came out in 2007 this one came out a [TS]

00:57:43   couple of days ago so he and i were [TS]

00:57:45   talking about this yesterday in fact [TS]

00:57:46   that that it's hard you're an [TS]

00:57:49   unpublished novelist you're working on a [TS]

00:57:51   novel for for for 10 years and you [TS]

00:57:53   publish it and it's a wild success and [TS]

00:57:55   everybody says where's the next one and [TS]

00:57:57   you're like guys but took me 10 years [TS]

00:57:58   exactly what you want what do you mean [TS]

00:58:00   you want it now [TS]

00:58:01   may I answered my turn the tables and [TS]

00:58:03   even say Jason hey Jason what are you [TS]

00:58:05   reading this week I'm glad you asked [TS]

00:58:07   that question Michael and I am reading a [TS]

00:58:10   few things although not as many as you [TS]

00:58:13   but not as few as Scott is on and i also [TS]

00:58:17   have a new kindle so I have one more [TS]

00:58:18   device so I'm now only a hundred meters [TS]

00:58:20   behind sky 401 keep trying json [TS]

00:58:24   intention i can catch up [TS]

00:58:26   I have a guy i've been reading all clear [TS]

00:58:30   which is the second half of the connie [TS]

00:58:31   willis novel that began with blackout [TS]

00:58:33   which is the next book in in this [TS]

00:58:36   universe that includes to say nothing of [TS]

00:58:38   the dog [TS]

00:58:38   ok and and it's it's basically about the [TS]

00:58:42   Blitz the London Blitz and what I what I [TS]

00:58:45   would say to the readers who are [TS]

00:58:46   considering reading it is black marker [TS]

00:58:50   are one book split into there's nae [TS]

00:58:53   there's nothing I mean it's one book [TS]

00:58:56   split in two and i made the mistake of [TS]

00:58:57   reading the first book and then not [TS]

00:59:00   reading the second book for several [TS]

00:59:01   months and I was hopelessly lost and [TS]

00:59:04   it's taken me a while to remember what [TS]

00:59:07   happened in the other book so i'd [TS]

00:59:09   recommend that if you read these books [TS]

00:59:10   don't wait just blood flow through both [TS]

00:59:13   of them and considered a gigantic book [TS]

00:59:15   so that's what i'm reading and i just [TS]

00:59:17   finished the second book in the [TS]

00:59:20   Millennium Trilogy Stig Larson's the [TS]

00:59:23   girl who played with fire [TS]

00:59:25   I found any of those well so you know [TS]

00:59:28   they're good but one of the funny things [TS]

00:59:31   about them is that the guy died he wrote [TS]

00:59:33   these three novels speaking of people [TS]

00:59:34   having novels and and and then it in the [TS]

00:59:37   can is he wrote these three novels and [TS]

00:59:38   he died and they were published and [TS]

00:59:41   became wildly successful the problem is [TS]

00:59:43   i mean not that it's heard his sales [TS]

00:59:44   obviously and i think i've said this in [TS]

00:59:46   a previous podcast problem is they [TS]

00:59:48   really could have used an editor [TS]

00:59:49   oh god yes and and I feel like they were [TS]

00:59:53   left untouched because he's dead [TS]

00:59:57   open and the other thing is the english [TS]

00:59:59   translation [TS]

00:59:59   translation [TS]

01:00:00   I'm sure the translation is problematic [TS]

01:00:02   there's a wide there's wide condemnation [TS]

01:00:04   by people are bilingual with the English [TS]

01:00:06   translation was published especially the [TS]

01:00:07   first book is really radically not know [TS]

01:00:11   it's a different but it's the radical [TS]

01:00:13   changes from the actual sweet another [TS]

01:00:14   nereo major narrative but like the text [TS]

01:00:17   and so forth because they wanted the [TS]

01:00:18   book out so fast and it's kind of a kind [TS]

01:00:21   of bad compared to how much i would [TS]

01:00:22   imagine given how successful that they [TS]

01:00:24   are that maybe at some point they'll [TS]

01:00:25   retranslate and they might even you know [TS]

01:00:27   they might even Mitchell edition give it [TS]

01:00:29   give it and edit right for the penguin [TS]

01:00:31   classic version because with the Dragon [TS]

01:00:32   Tattoo one of his many books which you [TS]

01:00:34   like good comment i mean that [TS]

01:00:35   translation does not it does not explain [TS]

01:00:38   the fact that we spend whole paragraphs [TS]

01:00:40   talking about how much ram is in her [TS]

01:00:43   nineties her 2001 era powerbook yeah I [TS]

01:00:46   have realized that i am in fact reading [TS]

01:00:48   another book if anyone cares i yes [TS]

01:00:50   please let's look at that we have you [TS]

01:00:52   been have you been reading these books [TS]

01:00:54   while we've been talking what is the [TS]

01:00:56   book Scott it is called so I i spent a [TS]

01:01:00   while reading the like 13 of the viscous [TS]

01:01:04   force or key and books or whatever the [TS]

01:01:06   board Costa get it for so get there or [TS]

01:01:08   close again I still can't sit bless you [TS]

01:01:10   and so I got I was overwhelmed by it so [TS]

01:01:14   i said i need to read something i read a [TS]

01:01:15   couple of those too but I don't even [TS]

01:01:17   want to mention that because then yes I [TS]

01:01:19   read those 2i I needed something [TS]

01:01:21   completely different so i picked up a [TS]

01:01:22   book called a thus was a damas murdered [TS]

01:01:25   which is by Sarah Caldwell and it is [TS]

01:01:29   about these four lawyers or I guess [TS]

01:01:31   barristers in 18th century New York no [TS]

01:01:34   doubt this is like a like nineteen [TS]

01:01:36   eighties England and yeah they solve [TS]

01:01:40   mysteries [TS]

01:01:41   so that's what it is all right great and [TS]

01:01:45   so next book club and this is a note for [TS]

01:01:48   all of you listeners out there as well [TS]

01:01:49   as for people like Dan Moore and who are [TS]

01:01:51   slackers are not even listening [TS]

01:01:54   probably not because he's that much of a [TS]

01:01:56   slacker and he said that he can't he's [TS]

01:01:58   illiterate so he's unable to UM poor guy [TS]

01:02:01   vs stories of your life and others by [TS]

01:02:05   ted chang [TS]

01:02:07   along with a along with a novella he [TS]

01:02:11   wrote called the lifecycle of software [TS]

01:02:13   objects i believe yes which is available [TS]

01:02:16   online for free and we'll put a link in [TS]

01:02:19   the show notes on the incomparable [TS]

01:02:20   dot-com i have the beautiful beautiful [TS]

01:02:23   slightly expensive print edition of the [TS]

01:02:26   book because I like him so much I want [TS]

01:02:28   to buy it ceased being published by [TS]

01:02:29   small press I believe anything its local [TS]

01:02:31   here to be in seattle and I bought that [TS]

01:02:33   and is it's a novella novella but it's [TS]

01:02:36   um gorgeously illustrated a gorgeous [TS]

01:02:38   piece of printing so I actually [TS]

01:02:40   recommend the print book for once [TS]

01:02:42   all right look I'm looking forward to [TS]

01:02:43   that discussion because they have many [TS]

01:02:45   opinions and that's a short story [TS]

01:02:47   collection so if you're not used to [TS]

01:02:49   reading short stories i encourage you to [TS]

01:02:51   give it a try actually one of my [TS]

01:02:52   favorite things to do every year is by [TS]

01:02:54   the year's best science fiction short [TS]

01:02:56   stories collection if you don't usually [TS]

01:02:58   read short stories I think ted chang it [TS]

01:03:00   very interesting author i think it's [TS]

01:03:01   worth reading at the very least if you [TS]

01:03:03   don't buy stories of your life and [TS]

01:03:04   others i would encourage you to seek out [TS]

01:03:06   our are linked to the lifecycle of [TS]

01:03:08   software objects which will give us [TS]

01:03:10   somethin me to talk about a little pre [TS]

01:03:13   little preview i think it's actually not [TS]

01:03:15   one of his strongest works I i think [TS]

01:03:17   there's stuff and stories of your life [TS]

01:03:19   and others that are much better but i [TS]

01:03:20   can turn [TS]

01:03:21   yes alright she don't tell anybody and [TS]

01:03:24   also you should with the story of your [TS]

01:03:27   life and others persevere through the [TS]

01:03:29   first story because i did not think the [TS]

01:03:30   first story was very good i forgot which [TS]

01:03:32   one it is [TS]

01:03:33   yes well against both have similar yet i [TS]

01:03:35   will just mind-blowing seven final [TS]

01:03:38   things now we'll start we'll talk about [TS]

01:03:39   it on the next on the next book club [TS]

01:03:41   podcast so that's your assignment dear [TS]

01:03:43   reader dear listener list issue can read [TS]

01:03:47   there's anyone listeners thank you out [TS]

01:03:50   there and then the only other thing I [TS]

01:03:52   wanted to do before we before we went [TS]

01:03:55   away was to remind people I if you've [TS]

01:03:57   stuck with us this long and you just not [TS]

01:03:59   tired of us yet that if you go to the [TS]

01:04:02   incomparable com or to rifftrax dot-com [TS]

01:04:05   you can see the eye riff that we [TS]

01:04:08   generated which is 20 minutes of myself [TS]

01:04:11   Glenn dan Morin and Steve Lutz making [TS]

01:04:15   fun mystery science theater 3000 style [TS]

01:04:17   of a sci-fi west [TS]

01:04:20   turn short from the thirties called The [TS]

01:04:22   Phantom Empire chapter 5 and I turned [TS]

01:04:27   out pretty well so it's a dollar on [TS]

01:04:29   rifftrax com to download and if you [TS]

01:04:31   don't want to pay a dollar hang out wait [TS]

01:04:33   around you know in a few months we'll [TS]

01:04:35   post it for free but for now it's one [TS]

01:04:37   buck so thank you for this discussion of [TS]

01:04:40   the dream of perpetual motion guys it [TS]

01:04:42   was a lot of fun [TS]

01:04:43   I I mind has been expanded me to mine [TS]

01:04:46   has been digitised are you a perpetual [TS]

01:04:50   motion machine now it is alan scott is [TS]

01:04:52   hollering my computer voice it's coming [TS]

01:04:56   from inside the computer [TS]

01:04:58   alright so until next time on that note [TS]

01:05:01   man-years uplands turn on your perpetual [TS]

01:05:04   motion machines and Fleischmann thank [TS]

01:05:07   you very much for being here thank you [TS]

01:05:08   so much and Scott it's great to have you [TS]

01:05:11   on the podcast thank you very much for [TS]

01:05:13   recommending this book and it only took [TS]

01:05:14   us like six months to get around to well [TS]

01:05:17   I I'm I thank you both for reading it [TS]

01:05:20   it's sticky through unlike some I'm like [TS]

01:05:23   son who shall remain den this is [TS]

01:05:27   friendly and comfortable podcast of [TS]

01:05:29   course it has [TS]

01:05:30   there's nothing else that can compare [TS]

01:05:31   until next time this jason still saying [TS]

01:05:33   thank you [TS]

01:05:34   [Music] [TS]

01:05:40   I won't understand this podcast until I [TS]

01:05:42   listen to the podcast about this podcast [TS]

01:05:45   explaining it so basically our next [TS]

01:05:47   podcast should be the podcast about the [TS]

01:05:50   podcast about the dream of perpetual [TS]

01:05:52   motion [TS]

01:05:52   yes [TS]