The Incomparable

26: Hitler Was a Rules Lawyer


00:00:06   the integral test episode 26 or have you [TS]

00:00:12   led 2011 [TS]

00:00:17   welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:20   i am your host Daniel Moore and sitting [TS]

00:00:22   in for Jason's now who is and espana [TS]

00:00:24   joining me on today's session which is [TS]

00:00:28   going to be about role-playing games we [TS]

00:00:31   have quite a colorful cast of characters [TS]

00:00:33   returning to the incomparable mr. Scott [TS]

00:00:36   McNulty sorry Scott I'm wielding my plus [TS]

00:00:39   one wit at anybody no sorry I I you [TS]

00:00:44   gotta forfeit back on that one who all [TS]

00:00:46   right i also returning to the podcast [TS]

00:00:49   from his debut appearance on our video [TS]

00:00:51   game episode Tony simple are Tony hi [TS]

00:00:53   it's nice to be here [TS]

00:00:56   I think we made a strict no sound [TS]

00:00:58   effects rule I I was not breached if and [TS]

00:01:03   for his debut appearance on our on our [TS]

00:01:05   podcast mr. Jason Tasi are you doing [TS]

00:01:07   Jason I'm okay i didn't realize that [TS]

00:01:09   should cover the role-playing joke sorry [TS]

00:01:11   I could call you [TS]

00:01:12   gamemaster Jason tossing that makes me [TS]

00:01:14   feel a little better because otherwise i [TS]

00:01:15   was going to make some lame joke about [TS]

00:01:17   failing my mission role for coming with [TS]

00:01:18   jokes or something i'm still working [TS]

00:01:19   over here okay if you let that one let [TS]

00:01:22   that once summer yeah fur go lightweight [TS]

00:01:24   so yeah today we can talk about [TS]

00:01:26   role-playing games not not the video [TS]

00:01:28   game variety but the classic tabletop [TS]

00:01:30   dice pen-and-paper hardcover books the [TS]

00:01:34   smell of sweat and fear that that kind [TS]

00:01:37   of good stuff and so I thought we just [TS]

00:01:41   start off by talking a little bit about [TS]

00:01:43   how we got into role-playing games and [TS]

00:01:46   you know when we started that kind of [TS]

00:01:47   thing about what kind of games we [TS]

00:01:48   started playing so Jason how do you how [TS]

00:01:51   do you start by rolling it uh whom let's [TS]

00:01:54   say well as well maybe 11 years old I [TS]

00:01:57   think I went to school this guy named [TS]

00:02:01   chris who said to me one day [TS]

00:02:03   would you like to try Dungeons and [TS]

00:02:05   Dragons it was advanced of course the [TS]

00:02:08   second edition and I I i don't know that [TS]

00:02:11   i've never actually even heard of it at [TS]

00:02:12   that point but it certainly read about [TS]

00:02:15   dragons and had yeah you know a [TS]

00:02:19   favorable interpretation of of dragons [TS]

00:02:21   and so figured okay let's try this [TS]

00:02:23   we started with the classic you wake up [TS]

00:02:25   in a field motif and [TS]

00:02:28   I just kind of went on from there so if [TS]

00:02:31   I said you are in a tavern right now you [TS]

00:02:33   would have immediately you would feel it [TS]

00:02:34   all rush back to absolutely i am in the [TS]

00:02:37   first chapter of dragons of autumn [TS]

00:02:39   Twilight right now I don't know what [TS]

00:02:41   that is [TS]

00:02:42   I'm sorry that I do it's got how about [TS]

00:02:46   you i was in fifth grade so don't hold [TS]

00:02:51   you are when you're in fifth grade I was [TS]

00:02:53   probably 20 because I'm that what [TS]

00:02:58   however whatever the appropriate Ages [TS]

00:03:00   when you're 50 in fifth grade is what I [TS]

00:03:02   was my friend Kevin who actually was [TS]

00:03:06   kind of a friend of a friend who was in [TS]

00:03:08   high school I was like hey you want to [TS]

00:03:11   play Dungeons and Dragons and he it was [TS]

00:03:13   not advanced dungeons and dragons know [TS]

00:03:14   it was first edition Dungeons and [TS]

00:03:16   Dragons know who and now i'm not [TS]

00:03:19   actually that all they could have been [TS]

00:03:21   second edition but my friend Kevin Spain [TS]

00:03:24   ungodly amount of money to buy all the [TS]

00:03:26   first edition books because he thought [TS]

00:03:29   that was the one true edition of [TS]

00:03:31   Dungeons and Dragons that is definitely [TS]

00:03:34   something we will get back to wait [TS]

00:03:35   around like that i can guarantee that [TS]

00:03:38   so yeah that that is my first experience [TS]

00:03:41   was and we buy played with that group of [TS]

00:03:44   people probably for maybe eight years [TS]

00:03:47   i'm tony how about you [TS]

00:03:50   I think they're pretty similar story to [TS]

00:03:52   both of you I think I started playing in [TS]

00:03:54   junior high school I think I [TS]

00:03:56   specifically i don't think i played any [TS]

00:03:57   role playing games before our junior [TS]

00:04:00   high school today uh no I know it was [TS]

00:04:02   officially dnd or a role-playing game [TS]

00:04:04   club and i joined that and i believe i [TS]

00:04:07   actually played it my first game was run [TS]

00:04:10   by Jason spread Chris if i remember [TS]

00:04:12   correctly he was basically rounded up to [TS]

00:04:14   run a game for like all the new like [TS]

00:04:16   young kids that wandered in its rightful [TS]

00:04:18   disc in the interest of full disclosure [TS]

00:04:19   I will say that but Tony and Jason and I [TS]

00:04:21   all attended the same junior high school [TS]

00:04:24   and high school so we have probably have [TS]

00:04:26   a lot of the same experiences with with [TS]

00:04:28   much for playing there you go [TS]

00:04:30   as for me which is I think a pretty [TS]

00:04:33   similar story for you guys I think the [TS]

00:04:35   first time I've remember playing was in [TS]

00:04:38   actually a summer camp we have a camp [TS]

00:04:41   where I grew up that had like you let [TS]

00:04:44   you pick all your sort of it was kind of [TS]

00:04:46   like a little bit like a college setup [TS]

00:04:48   was like you pick classes and take them [TS]

00:04:50   like it was like woodworking or archery [TS]

00:04:53   or creative writing or something about [TS]

00:04:55   dungeons dragons and one of those [TS]

00:04:56   dungeons dragons and so I I remember [TS]

00:05:00   starting out on that I oh I think we [TS]

00:05:01   were not in the advanced group advanced [TS]

00:05:03   dungeons dragons group i was remedial [TS]

00:05:06   dungeon have to work your way up to it [TS]

00:05:08   well it was funny because there were two [TS]

00:05:10   groups the men at the same time and this [TS]

00:05:12   in the same room which is just let me [TS]

00:05:13   know classroom at the junior high school [TS]

00:05:15   across town and I remember that the [TS]

00:05:17   other group was the ad group because [TS]

00:05:19   they have the fancy books and everything [TS]

00:05:20   and we were just using the like sort of [TS]

00:05:22   basic Dungeons and Dragons thing and i [TS]

00:05:25   eventually been acquired like there's a [TS]

00:05:27   box set like this black box that came [TS]

00:05:30   with like a DM screen and like the basic [TS]

00:05:33   rules set of dice and some little like [TS]

00:05:36   cardboard miniature type things and had [TS]

00:05:38   like a basic adventure but it was really [TS]

00:05:40   like it was the basic rules where they [TS]

00:05:42   were like like five classes or something [TS]

00:05:45   you know like magic user fighter thief [TS]

00:05:48   wizard and like that are multiples are [TS]

00:05:51   just magic user cleric something like [TS]

00:05:52   that and then they're like three races [TS]

00:05:54   like it was really bare bones and I [TS]

00:05:56   convinced several of my cousins to play [TS]

00:05:58   with me on vacation when you're because [TS]

00:06:00   one of them was actually an avid DVD [TS]

00:06:02   player DVD put CD player in his own if [TS]

00:06:05   you're related to a DVD player there he [TS]

00:06:08   was ahead of his time to think that 1999 [TS]

00:06:11   or something and yet now obsolete [TS]

00:06:13   yeah well here he had been playing for [TS]

00:06:15   many years and in fact he still plays [TS]

00:06:16   regularly and playing the same group [TS]

00:06:18   like 20 years on and off [TS]

00:06:19   I'll so I and i'm writing assuming that [TS]

00:06:23   we pretty much all started by playing [TS]

00:06:24   D&D right i think so I think so Terry I [TS]

00:06:28   remember I remember sitting in a junior [TS]

00:06:30   high school cafeteria like having a roll [TS]

00:06:32   dice to make a character and thinking [TS]

00:06:34   that this took a long time I think life [TS]

00:06:36   my first character was a thief and I [TS]

00:06:38   believe he had like six hit points calm [TS]

00:06:40   and I believe he died in that first [TS]

00:06:42   campaign [TS]

00:06:43   I think this was back when it was more [TS]

00:06:44   acceptable to like murder characters and [TS]

00:06:46   beggins way it's not acceptable to [TS]

00:06:49   murder characters and it's it's slightly [TS]

00:06:51   you know I mean I think you there are [TS]

00:06:53   places where it's not culturally [TS]

00:06:54   acceptable [TS]

00:06:56   I mean I know you're from Philadelphia [TS]

00:06:58   so it only murder each other so you guys [TS]

00:07:02   also all been Mike Dungeon Master's to [TS]

00:07:04   have you run games as of recently yes [TS]

00:07:06   yeah as a last weekend maybe I think I [TS]

00:07:10   think yeah but not not as a dungeon [TS]

00:07:13   master Dan was very was very careful to [TS]

00:07:15   refer to me as a gamemaster have [TS]

00:07:17   ventured beyond the dungeon careful [TS]

00:07:21   there are dragons out there were you not [TS]

00:07:23   playing Dungeons and Dragons and we were [TS]

00:07:25   not actually but i don't know i don't [TS]

00:07:26   know that if that now like it's okay [TS]

00:07:29   that's fair i think i recused myself [TS]

00:07:31   from that i know i watched you want to [TS]

00:07:33   open up this 2828 to a game mastering [TS]

00:07:35   perspective Scott have you run if you're [TS]

00:07:36   in the game as well I i have been a [TS]

00:07:38   dungeon master a game master and a [TS]

00:07:40   storyteller [TS]

00:07:42   oh that sounds that sounds almost [TS]

00:07:45   lyrical yeah and so that's that sort of [TS]

00:07:48   next question I want to ask which was [TS]

00:07:50   that you're beyond sort of dungeons [TS]

00:07:52   dragons which of course is it has a has [TS]

00:07:54   a reputation is or the seminal role [TS]

00:07:56   playing game what are the other kinds of [TS]

00:07:58   I mean there are lots of there are lots [TS]

00:07:59   of RPGs and I think probably a lot of [TS]

00:08:01   the people listening to this podcast are [TS]

00:08:02   probably familiar with dungeons and [TS]

00:08:03   dragons but they may not be as familiar [TS]

00:08:05   with without the short game so it just [TS]

00:08:07   kind of curious what other what other [TS]

00:08:09   RPG systems or worlds have you guys have [TS]

00:08:12   you got played my list may be pretty [TS]

00:08:15   much the same as Jason list except Jason [TS]

00:08:17   ran those games so I have you know I [TS]

00:08:21   played Dungeons and Dragons i have [TS]

00:08:23   played dead lands which is a week the [TS]

00:08:27   game set in the weird west which is a [TS]

00:08:29   pretty cool theme is it return to castle [TS]

00:08:32   containers just castle pockets team just [TS]

00:08:34   can't walk [TS]

00:08:35   ok to return return to castle [TS]

00:08:36   wolfenstein as the castle to which you [TS]

00:08:39   return [TS]

00:08:40   Castle Frankenstein which is a really [TS]

00:08:41   cool kind of steampunk steampunk ask [TS]

00:08:46   victorian-era game and I played a couple [TS]

00:08:50   i will call them unfortunate games of [TS]

00:08:53   vampire the masquerade and those can be [TS]

00:08:57   unfortunate they were there was I think [TS]

00:08:59   I think there was just there was a bad [TS]

00:09:01   mix of players and game masters in those [TS]

00:09:03   settings and I've also played a good [TS]

00:09:06   deal of the game in nomine so that's me [TS]

00:09:09   Scott how about you uh I have played a [TS]

00:09:13   all the flavors of DMD so all the [TS]

00:09:16   additions i played marvel superheroes [TS]

00:09:19   earth Dom don't know if anyone ever [TS]

00:09:22   rooms with that is um I do that shit or [TS]

00:09:27   shame in that four hits the top well [TS]

00:09:29   because i have it on my shelf and I've [TS]

00:09:31   never run it [TS]

00:09:32   uh-huh it was please continue to go it's [TS]

00:09:34   not really worth playing [TS]

00:09:35   I'm all right good to know I was played [TS]

00:09:39   I have played the lord of the ring one [TS]

00:09:42   of the Lord of the Rings games I don't [TS]

00:09:43   know which one [TS]

00:09:44   paranoia which is a great thing is no [TS]

00:09:47   Star Trek and Star Wars and Star Wars [TS]

00:09:51   game oh yes I wish it didn't like [TS]

00:09:54   because I hate stop [TS]

00:09:57   wow I just have to say that because it [TS]

00:09:59   makes dance so angry i always forget [TS]

00:10:01   when you're on his blood guests and I [TS]

00:10:03   want to keep walking he's got and a [TS]

00:10:08   bunch of other than 0 and a lot of the [TS]

00:10:10   palladium stuff so I love riffs like [TS]

00:10:12   rips played this here is a limited I [TS]

00:10:17   don't know I've never played the play of [TS]

00:10:18   a fantasy game but and that and there [TS]

00:10:22   are some others random stuff i played [TS]

00:10:24   Jason you know I Scott and Tony actually [TS]

00:10:29   covered a lot of the ones that i would [TS]

00:10:30   have mentioned i don't i don't know what [TS]

00:10:33   you call it [TS]

00:10:34   let's say a phase where I after being [TS]

00:10:37   introduced to dnd where were Chris [TS]

00:10:39   Rainey game and then actually i remember [TS]

00:10:40   playing in the damn ram back in seventh [TS]

00:10:44   or eighth grade or so and then another [TS]

00:10:47   friend of our started running game some [TS]

00:10:49   of the palladium games like I remember [TS]

00:10:50   we played our heroes unlimited I have a [TS]

00:10:53   vague feeling we might have played some [TS]

00:10:55   news and super spies around that time [TS]

00:10:57   and run around and it is was my face of [TS]

00:11:00   of wanting to create games too so i made [TS]

00:11:02   a bunch of basic likes DNT care [TS]

00:11:06   if knockoff system type games for comic [TS]

00:11:09   books that i really enjoyed so we played [TS]

00:11:13   that kind of thing for a while and after [TS]

00:11:15   a while of trying to work on this what [TS]

00:11:17   was what was to be my game masterpiece [TS]

00:11:20   my own original fantasy world that was [TS]

00:11:22   just this intricately piece together [TS]

00:11:24   entire system and world i was showing it [TS]

00:11:27   to a friend of my John who had played [TS]

00:11:30   many more games that i had and jon said [TS]

00:11:31   well does it doesn't have to look just [TS]

00:11:34   like dnd and I was sort of feeling like [TS]

00:11:36   what what what else would it look like [TS]

00:11:38   i've never seen her role playing game [TS]

00:11:40   and so he pulled me over to a friends [TS]

00:11:42   place and we played a game of castleball [TS]

00:11:44   can stand where you know there's no dice [TS]

00:11:45   you're using cards for everything and it [TS]

00:11:48   was just so far from anything I've ever [TS]

00:11:50   seen before that this this brought me [TS]

00:11:52   into my next phase of let me play things [TS]

00:11:54   that are even nothing like D&D [TS]

00:11:55   whatsoever and so I'm not even throwing [TS]

00:11:57   something in their life which I know [TS]

00:11:58   that that I played with put some of your [TS]

00:12:00   well the extraordinary adventures of [TS]

00:12:03   baron munchausen which is it's more of a [TS]

00:12:07   storytelling game that a role-playing [TS]

00:12:09   game but i kinda I kind of think of it [TS]

00:12:11   in the same category in some ways not [TS]

00:12:13   just a great syndrome a great game [TS]

00:12:15   indeed i've been running a nominee [TS]

00:12:18   lately after i had had not been playing [TS]

00:12:20   role playing games for years and then I [TS]

00:12:22   did this this 400-page dissertation on [TS]

00:12:25   geek culture for my PhD and when I was [TS]

00:12:28   done with that I was like oh man you [TS]

00:12:29   know what I really want to do I want to [TS]

00:12:31   do something really geeky that it's not [TS]

00:12:33   for work and and so that's a game about [TS]

00:12:37   angels and demons and i have a bunch of [TS]

00:12:38   other stuff just kind of sitting on my [TS]

00:12:39   shelf that I've been like thinking like [TS]

00:12:41   all run that sometime and I just never [TS]

00:12:43   have like I've got the complete rules to [TS]

00:12:45   eclipse phase and Trinity which is a [TS]

00:12:48   done a couple of science fiction games [TS]

00:12:50   continuum which is a time-travel game [TS]

00:12:54   and just a bunch of other stuff too [TS]

00:12:55   I think I played trinity is that is that [TS]

00:12:59   was that a white wolf for now it is [TS]

00:13:01   always a white wolf science fiction game [TS]

00:13:03   in which everyone basically with some [TS]

00:13:04   theme of psychic and it comes in with [TS]

00:13:06   the book is like a binder with a weird [TS]

00:13:08   plastic cover thing gets not my favorite [TS]

00:13:12   physical for Maddox I I think there's [TS]

00:13:14   also a paperback which i kinda like [TS]

00:13:15   better [TS]

00:13:16   I'm did you guys play a role playing [TS]

00:13:18   games like straight through or did you [TS]

00:13:19   guys take over [TS]

00:13:20   I know Jason Jason you and I i think [TS]

00:13:22   both were in a similar experience where [TS]

00:13:23   we played a lot in sort of junior high [TS]

00:13:25   school maybe early on in high school and [TS]

00:13:27   then maybe more sporadically after that [TS]

00:13:29   and then I feel like after college we [TS]

00:13:31   probably didn't play for a really long [TS]

00:13:33   time I mean I definitely got out of D&D [TS]

00:13:35   fairly early on and it wasn't until the [TS]

00:13:39   the most recent the fourth edition came [TS]

00:13:41   out that I sort of got back into it [TS]

00:13:43   did you guys have the same experience of [TS]

00:13:44   like like sort of us moving away from [TS]

00:13:46   from opening games where you guys been [TS]

00:13:47   praying with playing them pretty much [TS]

00:13:49   consistently since you're introduced [TS]

00:13:50   well I guess I already answered that so [TS]

00:13:53   i'll just add one little addendum to it [TS]

00:13:54   which is that I i gotta make like to [TS]

00:13:56   mention that in the period at the peak [TS]

00:13:59   of my second phase of let's play [TS]

00:14:01   whatever I can get my hands on phase i [TS]

00:14:03   mean like i was like going to to gaming [TS]

00:14:05   conventions by myself to like enter [TS]

00:14:07   role-playing game competitions and meet [TS]

00:14:09   strangers and stuff like that that was a [TS]

00:14:11   very mixed bag as an experience where [TS]

00:14:14   sometimes you get you play games like I [TS]

00:14:16   went to this convention called a region [TS]

00:14:18   which is a local Boston sci-fi [TS]

00:14:19   convention and I'm the people who ran [TS]

00:14:21   the Steve Jackson games booth there ran [TS]

00:14:24   this really awesome game of tune which [TS]

00:14:27   is a very much like a loony toon style [TS]

00:14:29   role-playing game and and also a sort of [TS]

00:14:32   killed dr. lucky larp which i think i [TS]

00:14:35   think it will be only large I've ever [TS]

00:14:37   participated in and was really really [TS]

00:14:39   excellent and so that made me feel like [TS]

00:14:41   all this is what i need to do i need to [TS]

00:14:42   go to these kind of conventions and meet [TS]

00:14:44   people [TS]

00:14:44   let's just say that the rest of that [TS]

00:14:46   year didn't really go as well when I [TS]

00:14:48   kept doing it until I realized maybe I [TS]

00:14:50   don't want to be playing a roleplaying [TS]

00:14:51   games that much after all and then I [TS]

00:14:53   just quit for years and it was only very [TS]

00:14:55   recently that I decided maybe I kind of [TS]

00:14:59   Miss that hobby but I just need to ease [TS]

00:15:01   myself into this with people i already [TS]

00:15:02   know and get along with very well what [TS]

00:15:06   you guys got [TS]

00:15:07   well I I'd played steadily through high [TS]

00:15:11   school and then I went to college and I [TS]

00:15:14   played maybe a couple times in college I [TS]

00:15:16   knew a lot of people who played D&D in [TS]

00:15:18   college but I never really wanted to [TS]

00:15:20   play with them and then they invited me [TS]

00:15:22   to a party which i thought was a party [TS]

00:15:24   but it was activated the other kind of [TS]

00:15:27   party is it was a LARPing party and who [TS]

00:15:30   the bad guy is that everyone was pretty [TS]

00:15:32   vampires and I was like this is really [TS]

00:15:34   weird so I pretended to be a vampire for [TS]

00:15:37   a little while and then I decided that I [TS]

00:15:39   would be a vampire who was bored with [TS]

00:15:40   the party and leave and they didn't like [TS]

00:15:43   that then i moved back home to me i'm [TS]

00:15:49   originally from New York and so i went [TS]

00:15:50   to new york and then after a while I [TS]

00:15:52   moved to Philadelphia and I didn't know [TS]

00:15:54   anybody really so I was like I need to [TS]

00:15:55   meet somebody so I met a bunch of people [TS]

00:15:59   who play D&D so I started playing DMV [TS]

00:16:02   because i was kind of burnt out on dnd [TS]

00:16:04   and I've been playing with that group [TS]

00:16:06   for like six years now so [TS]

00:16:08   mhm it's worked out well apparently [TS]

00:16:10   County High oh yeah I mean I think it's [TS]

00:16:14   a toaster cycles i think a big part of [TS]

00:16:17   it is who you know who are your friends [TS]

00:16:19   that are you know around you especially [TS]

00:16:21   since a lot of the role-playing you do [TS]

00:16:22   is actually like in person [TS]

00:16:24   I'm it's not something you do over the [TS]

00:16:25   web like video games so people being [TS]

00:16:29   around who want to play a game and [TS]

00:16:30   particularly people who want to run a [TS]

00:16:32   game since that seems to take a huge [TS]

00:16:34   amount of work on the part of you know [TS]

00:16:36   some sucker and you know that the [TS]

00:16:40   availability of said sucker tends to you [TS]

00:16:42   know to oscillate so it comes and goes [TS]

00:16:45   I'm not I I mean I enjoy role-playing [TS]

00:16:49   games but i'm not super motivated to [TS]

00:16:51   probably go out and play them with [TS]

00:16:52   people i don't know what i end up [TS]

00:16:55   playing a lot of role-playing game Simon [TS]

00:16:56   you know three different campaigns right [TS]

00:16:58   now but to me it's you know it's the [TS]

00:17:01   role playing games are fun and there's [TS]

00:17:02   something I want to do with with people [TS]

00:17:04   i know or at least friends of friends [TS]

00:17:05   but I wouldn't be like you know I've [TS]

00:17:07   never felt like I want to play Dungeons [TS]

00:17:09   and Dragons so much that I'm gonna go [TS]

00:17:10   find people and play dungeons dragons [TS]

00:17:12   with them [TS]

00:17:13   yeah i mean it strikes me as very much a [TS]

00:17:15   social kind of like activity you know [TS]

00:17:18   for some people like might have a poker [TS]

00:17:19   night or something like that [TS]

00:17:20   and let's be fair I'm I don't really [TS]

00:17:22   care for people that much i think most [TS]

00:17:25   people who play the ND don't care for [TS]

00:17:27   people that have maybe an [TS]

00:17:28   overgeneralization but I'm gonna stick [TS]

00:17:31   by that the level of Arc's Sarah [TS]

00:17:34   experiment up tony touch on interesting [TS]

00:17:36   point which i think is the idea of you [TS]

00:17:40   know most role-playing games beings for [TS]

00:17:42   physical and in person but there's also [TS]

00:17:46   i feel like an expanding amount of [TS]

00:17:48   people playing role playing games [TS]

00:17:51   virtually because say though you know [TS]

00:17:53   they may not be geographically close to [TS]

00:17:56   the people that they are used to playing [TS]

00:17:57   with and so for example i'm running a [TS]

00:17:59   group right now which tony is actually [TS]

00:18:01   in uh-huh [TS]

00:18:02   that is done over skype and uses a video [TS]

00:18:07   game system [TS]

00:18:08   alright i'm sorry it's just a a sort of [TS]

00:18:11   shared application in which we can see [TS]

00:18:13   like a map and move little tokens around [TS]

00:18:15   and have an adventure even though two of [TS]

00:18:17   our party members live in Texas one [TS]

00:18:19   lives in Connecticut I was Antonio [TS]

00:18:21   Island Massachusetts and so its end it's [TS]

00:18:26   it's very it's a very different [TS]

00:18:27   experience I've found and in some ways a [TS]

00:18:31   lot harder and some of it helps that [TS]

00:18:34   already start it part of the part of the [TS]

00:18:36   problem is that some of our people are [TS]

00:18:37   also very new and they have never played [TS]

00:18:39   D&D before and so as a result it feels [TS]

00:18:42   like a lot of our our games turn into [TS]

00:18:43   almost a video game type thing where you [TS]

00:18:47   know it's if you become kind of [TS]

00:18:49   disconnected because you're just moving [TS]

00:18:50   a little token around and so if there's [TS]

00:18:51   a lot of clicking and everything and and [TS]

00:18:53   less of the whole plan it suffers from a [TS]

00:18:55   lot of this and basically the same kind [TS]

00:18:56   of issues of you know being in a MTG vs [TS]

00:18:59   attending like a virtual meeting or mmm [TS]

00:19:02   yeah I mean I teleconference you know [TS]

00:19:04   it's a DNA webinar it is basically it's [TS]

00:19:07   basically a dnd weapon it that sounds [TS]

00:19:09   way it sounded way less cool when you [TS]

00:19:10   put it that way I had no idea that this [TS]

00:19:13   act of the software we use map tool [TS]

00:19:14   which is is that open source to him [TS]

00:19:16   yes it's actually pretty pretty well put [TS]

00:19:19   together [TS]

00:19:19   I'm pretty impressed with it I have to [TS]

00:19:21   imagine that kind of thing would lend [TS]

00:19:23   itself to some role-playing games better [TS]

00:19:24   than others because we talk about a [TS]

00:19:26   pretty broad range of I mean the fact [TS]

00:19:27   that was talking about about the [TS]

00:19:29   adventures of baron munchausen over here [TS]

00:19:31   is as something that by my classifieds [TS]

00:19:33   there's a role-playing game you're [TS]

00:19:34   really you're sitting around the circle [TS]

00:19:35   and you're just telling stories and [TS]

00:19:37   abetting each other that like I can make [TS]

00:19:38   a story better and that's it that's very [TS]

00:19:41   different from i'm going to move tokens [TS]

00:19:42   around the board now and can strategize [TS]

00:19:44   about how to you know attack these [TS]

00:19:46   enemies and so on and so forth [TS]

00:19:47   well it and it feels more like almost [TS]

00:19:50   more like a war game type thing or a [TS]

00:19:51   strategy game and I think that that's in [TS]

00:19:54   some ways that's a shame because i [TS]

00:19:55   really enjoy the interactions of the [TS]

00:19:57   role-playing environment and it's hard [TS]

00:19:59   to coax people who are new to the idea [TS]

00:20:01   of role-playing into wanting to do that [TS]

00:20:04   when there isn't when you don't have all [TS]

00:20:06   those visual cues and so I think a lot [TS]

00:20:08   of our are newer players have been more [TS]

00:20:11   hesitant to get into the whole you know [TS]

00:20:13   really putting yourself in a character [TS]

00:20:15   because of the the disconnect and it [TS]

00:20:17   takes a while for people to get used to [TS]

00:20:19   it i mean the campaign i'm running has [TS]

00:20:21   five players in it and three of them had [TS]

00:20:24   never played a role playing game before [TS]

00:20:26   so they they come they bring to a [TS]

00:20:28   different expectation then say the other [TS]

00:20:31   two players who are you know super super [TS]

00:20:34   hardcore nerds about it [TS]

00:20:35   well that I mean and that's it's always [TS]

00:20:37   interesting to have a mix of people like [TS]

00:20:39   that but it definitely provides a [TS]

00:20:41   different sort of experience especially [TS]

00:20:43   when you've got a large number of people [TS]

00:20:45   who are really really comfortable and [TS]

00:20:46   always wanna roll roll dice speaking [TS]

00:20:48   which I was thinking that there i think [TS]

00:20:50   one interesting thing and it's something [TS]

00:20:53   I appreciate about one of the most [TS]

00:20:54   recent versions of the dnd revamp in the [TS]

00:20:58   dungeon master's guide there's a whole [TS]

00:21:00   section on different types of players [TS]

00:21:02   without which I found fascinating [TS]

00:21:04   because you it's it's pretty good it's [TS]

00:21:06   pretty good you start going through and [TS]

00:21:08   you're like yup got one of those got one [TS]

00:21:10   of those get an end i'm kind of curious [TS]

00:21:12   you guys run into the same sort of like [TS]

00:21:14   I mean this the terms things like people [TS]

00:21:16   like rules lawyers and you know the [TS]

00:21:20   weekend called munchkins or more more [TS]

00:21:23   polite things I guess people who get [TS]

00:21:25   bored unless they're they're cracking [TS]

00:21:26   heads [TS]

00:21:27   I mean do you guys in your experience of [TS]

00:21:29   role-playing like having played with [TS]

00:21:31   different groups and different people [TS]

00:21:32   like find that you encountered similar [TS]

00:21:34   you know styles of play very frequently [TS]

00:21:37   or is it really much more desperate than [TS]

00:21:40   that or what Jason have you run a bunch [TS]

00:21:43   of different games [TS]

00:21:44   yeah it is funny because you asked about [TS]

00:21:46   this [TS]

00:21:47   and Martin have a sort of two parallel [TS]

00:21:50   responses one is remember i said before [TS]

00:21:54   that I got back into this hobby because [TS]

00:21:56   i wanted to do something that felt sort [TS]

00:21:59   of geeky and fun that I didn't have to [TS]

00:22:01   feel like I'm doing this is a sort of [TS]

00:22:02   dimension of cultural analysis and so [TS]

00:22:06   and and and so I I don't think I mean [TS]

00:22:09   how do i phrase this i guess i have not [TS]

00:22:11   really looked at the people i played [TS]

00:22:13   with in that way especially considering [TS]

00:22:15   that some of the games I play been you [TS]

00:22:16   know all these are my friends and so [TS]

00:22:17   it's much easier to think of it is [TS]

00:22:18   oh and this is how damn place is not [TS]

00:22:20   only place but by the same token I don't [TS]

00:22:24   know if you if you if any of you ever [TS]

00:22:25   listen to any kind of like nerdcore [TS]

00:22:26   popper keep music anything like that but [TS]

00:22:28   I listen to this one podcast on radio [TS]

00:22:30   free hipster which comes from my hipster [TS]

00:22:32   please dot com and I'm recently the guy [TS]

00:22:35   who put that who put that together put [TS]

00:22:37   together a compilation called 20-sided [TS]

00:22:39   rhymes which is just 20 tracks about [TS]

00:22:43   role-playing games basically and it's [TS]

00:22:46   pretty fun i've been listening to it on [TS]

00:22:47   the way to work and and there's all [TS]

00:22:49   these you know like rap songs with [TS]

00:22:50   lyrics about you know the ridiculous [TS]

00:22:53   things that players will do and even [TS]

00:22:54   though I haven't really been paying [TS]

00:22:55   attention and feeling like oh yeah I'm [TS]

00:22:57   categorizing these people this time once [TS]

00:22:58   again here's the this you know the rules [TS]

00:23:00   are here and so on and so forth [TS]

00:23:01   I'm listening to the lyrics to the songs [TS]

00:23:02   only oh my god I totally know what [TS]

00:23:04   you're talking about here so there's [TS]

00:23:05   definitely sort of like archetypes of [TS]

00:23:08   players are shared kind of experiences [TS]

00:23:09   like oh you played with that guy that I [TS]

00:23:12   guess I didn't really notice until it [TS]

00:23:13   was pointed out to me in lyrical first [TS]

00:23:15   you often don't realize things until [TS]

00:23:17   they've been sung to you like that [TS]

00:23:19   I mean it you know there's the classic [TS]

00:23:20   is it it's the dr. Demento sketch right [TS]

00:23:23   about the dnd with the you know where [TS]

00:23:27   the cheeto you know like it's very [TS]

00:23:29   stereotypical and yet they're there is a [TS]

00:23:31   certain amount of truth in parts of it [TS]

00:23:33   and I think that's part of what makes it [TS]

00:23:34   funny but it does seem like like certain [TS]

00:23:38   elements of that crop up a lot sort of [TS]

00:23:41   related to that I i think you know we [TS]

00:23:44   all started out in high school and [TS]

00:23:45   obviously high school is very traumatic [TS]

00:23:47   place for many people huh maybe [TS]

00:23:50   including or including and/or especially [TS]

00:23:52   for you know maybe people who play a [TS]

00:23:53   role playing games but I am curious to [TS]

00:23:55   know if that's shifted in terms of like [TS]

00:23:58   you know I think many of us have [TS]

00:24:00   experienced a stigma attached to it has [TS]

00:24:03   that diminished and I I don't know if [TS]

00:24:06   we've gotten to the point where Diaz is [TS]

00:24:08   cool but it's not it's ironically i [TS]

00:24:12   don't even think it's ironic i mean you [TS]

00:24:14   can be ironic playing it you can't let [TS]

00:24:16   you know it's funny actually I mention [TS]

00:24:18   I'd so i mentioned before I'm kind of [TS]

00:24:19   just joking around and said I feel like [TS]

00:24:21   I'm a dragons of autumn Twilight right [TS]

00:24:22   now that is the first book of the [TS]

00:24:24   dragonlance travel one of the Dragons [TS]

00:24:26   trilogies I guess I don't know [TS]

00:24:28   and the reason I bring this up is [TS]

00:24:29   because while i was doing my [TS]

00:24:30   dissertation research was absolutely [TS]

00:24:33   fascinated to see that newbury comics [TS]

00:24:35   which is a local you know music / [TS]

00:24:39   chachki / pop-culture merchandise chain [TS]

00:24:43   that we have around here in the Boston [TS]

00:24:44   area was selling among its you know it's [TS]

00:24:48   t-shirts for local sports teams and for [TS]

00:24:51   you know ya hit movies and hip and stuff [TS]

00:24:55   like that [TS]

00:24:55   a t-shirt that just had the cover of the [TS]

00:24:58   dragonlance rulebook and i'm looking at [TS]

00:25:03   this little piggy who is this for her [TS]

00:25:05   act like i never right into that to some [TS]

00:25:08   extent i still don't know i think that [TS]

00:25:09   there's there's that somebody else [TS]

00:25:12   should talk about this you're going to [TS]

00:25:13   be talking about my dissertation if you [TS]

00:25:15   let me talk too long [TS]

00:25:16   everyone jump in and save us from the [TS]

00:25:17   terrible fate of you let you know we're [TS]

00:25:18   just going to edit that out you never [TS]

00:25:21   ask that question then so don't words [TS]

00:25:23   which is it will fix all this in post [TS]

00:25:25   Jason please [TS]

00:25:28   yeah well i think that i think certainly [TS]

00:25:30   you know that you know geek culture and [TS]

00:25:33   and general nerdery is more acceptable [TS]

00:25:36   now but i think that they're still [TS]

00:25:37   probably I'm not in high school now so [TS]

00:25:40   that's good but i also went to a super [TS]

00:25:43   geeky high school so I was surrounded by [TS]

00:25:45   giant nerds all everyone was a nerd so [TS]

00:25:47   it wasn't and then the people who were [TS]

00:25:50   in what was called the simulated games [TS]

00:25:52   club because that's how nerdy are high [TS]

00:25:54   school was that I would like the top [TS]

00:25:59   not when I say top nerves that makes it [TS]

00:26:02   sound like we were running the place but [TS]

00:26:03   we were like the nerdiest of the Nerds [TS]

00:26:05   you have like the Crandall exactly but [TS]

00:26:08   not the good so I think there's just [TS]

00:26:10   something people don't really get [TS]

00:26:12   that you go and sit around a table and [TS]

00:26:15   pretend to be an elf and roll dice and [TS]

00:26:20   things happen and but you're all [TS]

00:26:22   imagining it's like a shared story and I [TS]

00:26:25   think people still think that's very [TS]

00:26:27   strange [TS]

00:26:27   I think that's got actually hits the [TS]

00:26:29   nail on the head is and i said i was [TS]

00:26:31   going to talk about my dissertation but [TS]

00:26:32   I lied to you what it really comes down [TS]

00:26:33   to is where you divide the line between [TS]

00:26:35   reality and fantasy and and and that [TS]

00:26:37   there's still that stereotype of people [TS]

00:26:39   who play a role playing games don't know [TS]

00:26:41   where to divide that line and I think [TS]

00:26:44   that we see a little bit more of people [TS]

00:26:46   feeling like I can come out of out of [TS]

00:26:47   the out of the shadows and admit a [TS]

00:26:49   little bit that this is what I'm doing [TS]

00:26:51   in part because there's a little bit of [TS]

00:26:55   like sort of spillover acceptance of [TS]

00:26:57   things like world of warcraft in public [TS]

00:26:59   assistance spillover acceptance of [TS]

00:27:01   images video games in general what you [TS]

00:27:03   get people saying well i'm not even sure [TS]

00:27:05   that counts as nerdy anymore and so [TS]

00:27:06   forth to get people admitting to it but [TS]

00:27:08   they're still very much still a major [TS]

00:27:10   hierarchy among a gate geeks and gamers [TS]

00:27:13   and so on and so forth when you go and [TS]

00:27:15   you talked to like it like a DVD player [TS]

00:27:16   and you're just like so do you think [TS]

00:27:18   this is this is a geeky thing though you [TS]

00:27:20   know nine out of ten will tell you [TS]

00:27:22   yeah but at least a large I don't you [TS]

00:27:24   live action role playing and then you're [TS]

00:27:26   going to talk to a larper and they're [TS]

00:27:27   like yeah but at least I don't dress up [TS]

00:27:29   like a furry I mean I don't have to [TS]

00:27:30   dress up like an animal and then you [TS]

00:27:32   talk to the people who are the furries [TS]

00:27:34   and they say yeah well let's bring this [TS]

00:27:35   back to the LARPers actually but I mean [TS]

00:27:40   what's interesting about that is that I [TS]

00:27:41   feel like there has been some it is made [TS]

00:27:43   its forays into the mainstream for [TS]

00:27:45   example and was just there was two weeks [TS]

00:27:48   ago there was an episode of the NBC [TS]

00:27:50   primetime sitcom community that was [TS]

00:27:53   entirely about dungeons and dragons in [TS]

00:27:55   which all the characters end up playing [TS]

00:27:56   this game of Dungeons and Dragons which [TS]

00:27:58   I mean kind of blew me away in the sense [TS]

00:28:00   that if anyone would let somebody make a [TS]

00:28:03   half an hour behind I'm show about [TS]

00:28:06   people playing D&D but it was kind of [TS]

00:28:08   nice to like to the you know they're [TS]

00:28:10   there it was fairly accurate every [TS]

00:28:14   public accurate [TS]

00:28:15   yeah i mean and i think that's that's [TS]

00:28:18   fascinating to me that that I think you [TS]

00:28:20   know if we anybody remembers I mean when [TS]

00:28:24   we were growing up and we're [TS]

00:28:26   all around the same age we were growing [TS]

00:28:27   up there was a not just a stigma in [TS]

00:28:29   terms of not being cool but there is a [TS]

00:28:31   stigma in terms of this being like like [TS]

00:28:33   an evil thing to do without that writers [TS]

00:28:35   when my mother told my aunt that i was [TS]

00:28:38   playing dungeons dragons like huh [TS]

00:28:41   he's a devil worshiper in that they're [TS]

00:28:42   here worshiping Satan he's not playing a [TS]

00:28:45   game and my mother was like you're [TS]

00:28:46   insane [TS]

00:28:48   he is way too much of a nerd to worship [TS]

00:28:50   Satan there's a whole movie i believe [TS]

00:28:54   called cleverly mazes and mom yes i did [TS]

00:28:57   in which Tom Hanks actually is in it and [TS]

00:29:00   from the early eighties in which case [TS]

00:29:02   it's about like kids who get a little [TS]

00:29:03   too into their game of D&D and one of [TS]

00:29:05   them like mercury sometimes but it's [TS]

00:29:06   something I mean but this was this was [TS]

00:29:09   not uncommon people actually did think [TS]

00:29:10   that there was like a satanic element to [TS]

00:29:12   it which is kind of hilarious if you've [TS]

00:29:15   ever actually played D&D because nothing [TS]

00:29:17   could be farther from the truth is still [TS]

00:29:18   shows up on prime-time cop dramas and [TS]

00:29:21   police procedurals and stuff I mean yeah [TS]

00:29:23   every season you had get at least one or [TS]

00:29:25   two shows that are like oh and one [TS]

00:29:27   person took the game a little too [TS]

00:29:29   seriously [TS]

00:29:30   yeah bones comes to mind there's an [TS]

00:29:33   episode on that about somebody who is [TS]

00:29:34   into medieval weaponry poetry and cost [TS]

00:29:37   playing who you know kill somebody for [TS]

00:29:39   not appreciate it as much as him [TS]

00:29:41   now that's not good i couldnĂ­t rattle [TS]

00:29:43   off some more beauty editors this at [TS]

00:29:45   least one every season I i find that [TS]

00:29:48   kind of kind of fascinating that it is [TS]

00:29:50   it still has the second half so many [TS]

00:29:52   years but I feel like it the same way [TS]

00:29:53   there's there are probably a lot of sort [TS]

00:29:55   of closet I mean there are some [TS]

00:29:56   cosplayers there are some non closet [TS]

00:29:58   players i know Tony you're a big fan of [TS]

00:30:00   Vin Diesel who is loco isn't again but I [TS]

00:30:06   mean huge someone here I mean he gave a [TS]

00:30:08   great interview of once about talking [TS]

00:30:10   about his love of dnd yeah yeah he's [TS]

00:30:13   down with it until I mean I think you [TS]

00:30:16   got him I'm not gonna argue with them [TS]

00:30:17   are you going to do with it [TS]

00:30:18   no mr. diesel I would never argue with [TS]

00:30:21   but it's interesting to see people like [TS]

00:30:24   that you mean clearly that's a guy with [TS]

00:30:25   a a very an image that it's a very macho [TS]

00:30:27   image in many ways and yet he is very [TS]

00:30:30   you know outwardly confident in talking [TS]

00:30:35   about this as a hobby [TS]

00:30:37   and I think I see you see some of the [TS]

00:30:40   same thing Jason was talking about the [TS]

00:30:41   bleed over from like World of Warcraft [TS]

00:30:43   is which is pretty mainstream and they [TS]

00:30:45   did a they didn't add series i believe [TS]

00:30:47   with several like three or four [TS]

00:30:49   celebrities who would each be talking [TS]

00:30:51   about their characters including I think [TS]

00:30:52   mr. t if i recall correctly replace it [TS]

00:30:54   but I think it's really relevant to your [TS]

00:30:56   mentioning celebrities here and I think [TS]

00:30:58   that you need to get to a certain level [TS]

00:30:59   of celebrity before you can admit to [TS]

00:31:01   this level of kinkiness to some extent i [TS]

00:31:03   mean like take samuel jackson samuel [TS]

00:31:06   jackson is kind of an interesting [TS]

00:31:07   example to just because there's all [TS]

00:31:09   kinds of race stereotypes tied up in [TS]

00:31:12   geeks and gaming and so on and so forth [TS]

00:31:14   but look how long it took in his career [TS]

00:31:16   of him making a name for himself before [TS]

00:31:18   he got to take the kind of roles that he [TS]

00:31:19   really wanted to take and suddenly i was [TS]

00:31:21   playing a computer hacker in Jurassic [TS]

00:31:23   Park it turns out he's a Jedi now you [TS]

00:31:25   know I mean adjust his roles just got [TS]

00:31:27   sort of nerdier a nerdier as he went [TS]

00:31:29   along you know but it takes a while [TS]

00:31:31   before you can get to that because [TS]

00:31:32   you're gonna need to establish your [TS]

00:31:34   Hollywood persona first and in terms of [TS]

00:31:36   the mainstream medicine in terms of came [TS]

00:31:38   back a little bit to the world of [TS]

00:31:39   warcraft thing I mean I've never play [TS]

00:31:40   World of Warcraft myself but I know I [TS]

00:31:43   don't playing people who do and and [TS]

00:31:45   oftentimes people who fall outside of [TS]

00:31:47   the typical the stereotypes but I want [TS]

00:31:50   to talk about one thing in particular [TS]

00:31:51   which is the fourth edition of D&D which [TS]

00:31:55   I think we've all played a little bit [TS]

00:31:57   and which some people at which is both [TS]

00:32:00   been praised and criticized within the [TS]

00:32:03   you know the role-playing games fear for [TS]

00:32:06   either being great because it opens up [TS]

00:32:09   the the gaming aspect to lots of new [TS]

00:32:12   players coming in from places like World [TS]

00:32:14   of Warcraft and then of course there's [TS]

00:32:16   always the negative push back in terms [TS]

00:32:18   of people who claim that you know [TS]

00:32:20   oh it dumps it down and and takes away [TS]

00:32:22   all the good parts of it so i was [TS]

00:32:24   curious to know if any of it from those [TS]

00:32:26   who have played fourth edition and [TS]

00:32:27   especially have also played previous [TS]

00:32:29   editions like how are your feelings [TS]

00:32:31   about that [TS]

00:32:32   well i think i have an opinion that [TS]

00:32:33   people won't agree with well so I'll go [TS]

00:32:36   first [TS]

00:32:36   I could already with you whenever you're [TS]

00:32:38   going to say I agree yeah I mean I guess [TS]

00:32:41   I mean obviously games have wildly [TS]

00:32:43   different mechanics built into them and [TS]

00:32:46   I mean I know a lot of people will talk [TS]

00:32:48   about how great mechanic is a game or it [TS]

00:32:50   how lame a mechanic is another game but [TS]

00:32:53   to me I mean I don't feel like it's the [TS]

00:32:55   social interactions and how the game is [TS]

00:32:56   Ron and who the other players are the [TS]

00:32:58   shapes the experience so much more than [TS]

00:33:00   the mechanics and I mean the mechanics [TS]

00:33:02   are still part of that but I don't know [TS]

00:33:04   I especially given that a gamemaster can [TS]

00:33:06   you know I think you can pick and choose [TS]

00:33:09   how you want to do stuff right [TS]

00:33:11   I think there's the there's the the [TS]

00:33:12   tricky thing of looking at like your [TS]

00:33:14   rule book or dungeon master's guide and [TS]

00:33:15   being like this is how I have to do [TS]

00:33:17   everything when really it's like this is [TS]

00:33:19   a way that you could do stuff you should [TS]

00:33:21   probably figure out what you want to [TS]

00:33:22   actually and and I think there's also [TS]

00:33:23   there's just there's there's a huge [TS]

00:33:25   element of like nostalgia for the [TS]

00:33:26   pastimes of D&D systems how you have the [TS]

00:33:30   system suc- negative armor class [TS]

00:33:35   come on you have to figure out you have [TS]

00:33:37   to hit hired hit lower it make any sense [TS]

00:33:39   if they can figure out a way to remove [TS]

00:33:42   mass from Dungeons and Dragons i'm happy [TS]

00:33:44   i'm like not anti mouth but it's just [TS]

00:33:46   another thing i have to do while i'm [TS]

00:33:47   running a game like doing math in my [TS]

00:33:49   head i use it i have a piece of scrap [TS]

00:33:52   paper now so I can do it easier [TS]

00:33:53   well maybe I'll get a graphing [TS]

00:33:54   calculator eventually but if they can [TS]

00:33:56   invent invent dice too just like you [TS]

00:33:58   roll it and you get like a smiley face [TS]

00:34:00   or like a thumbs down [TS]

00:34:01   I'm good and it's not like the old [TS]

00:34:04   second edition a D&D books are going [TS]

00:34:06   anywhere I mean there's still there [TS]

00:34:08   there on your shelf you can probably [TS]

00:34:09   find more to use bookstore and if you [TS]

00:34:11   have all of them then I that's a lot of [TS]

00:34:15   books remember maybe you want to read [TS]

00:34:17   through them again you think it's like [TS]

00:34:19   you can actually run that game if you [TS]

00:34:20   were actually that kind of crazy a [TS]

00:34:21   nostalgic creep but no I want to argue [TS]

00:34:26   but I don't want to do is play Dungeons [TS]

00:34:28   and Dragons second edition i want to [TS]

00:34:30   argue about this dragon for that isn't [TS]

00:34:31   on the internet I mean that's a valid [TS]

00:34:34   hobby too i don't have been arguing on [TS]

00:34:36   the internet is a time-honored cultural [TS]

00:34:38   tradition that I the world or blossom [TS]

00:34:41   honored [TS]

00:34:42   disagree so i guess the consensus is the [TS]

00:34:48   fourth edition is great is the best [TS]

00:34:49   thing since sliced bread [TS]

00:34:50   I i love it and anyone who disagrees is [TS]

00:34:53   on the internet i mean i-i wouldn't jump [TS]

00:34:57   into sailing all I think fourth editions [TS]

00:34:58   a huge improvement but i will say that [TS]

00:35:00   I've been I find it easier to play [TS]

00:35:04   against it i mean it maybe you could say [TS]

00:35:05   this dumb down it's more accessible [TS]

00:35:07   it's easier to play let me put it this [TS]

00:35:08   way if you were to say to me let's get [TS]

00:35:10   together a second edition game you know [TS]

00:35:11   for gags I would probably say I don't [TS]

00:35:15   know about that but yeah keep me posted [TS]

00:35:16   to keep me in the loop and then when the [TS]

00:35:18   night comes I'm washing my hair but you [TS]

00:35:20   know if if you say let's get together a [TS]

00:35:21   fourth edition game i might just play [TS]

00:35:23   just to have an excuse to hang out with [TS]

00:35:24   my friends kinda like Tony saying you [TS]

00:35:26   know but but wha [TS]

00:35:29   but i will say that i do think actually [TS]

00:35:31   that the mechanics of a game can make it [TS]

00:35:33   a lot more interesting and that's one of [TS]

00:35:35   the reasons why I'm not not really that [TS]

00:35:37   interested in dnd anymore is that I like [TS]

00:35:40   playing games where I feel like the [TS]

00:35:41   central conceptual or thematic [TS]

00:35:42   connection to what we're doing out of [TS]

00:35:46   the game what we're doing in this story [TS]

00:35:48   you know that's one thing I really loved [TS]

00:35:49   about castle falken steam in this [TS]

00:35:51   setting where you know dice were [TS]

00:35:52   associated with criminals and vagabonds [TS]

00:35:54   and so you would use playing cards [TS]

00:35:56   instead each suit represented a certain [TS]

00:35:58   type of action that you could take part [TS]

00:36:00   and so there's always a sort of like [TS]

00:36:02   wonderful unexpected moment where you'd [TS]

00:36:04   be like oh you're in the situation you [TS]

00:36:05   can't get out of what will you do [TS]

00:36:07   and then someone will pull out the ace [TS]

00:36:08   of spades and turn out to be a social [TS]

00:36:10   master after all and i don't i don't [TS]

00:36:12   know why that matters to me more than [TS]

00:36:13   then being able to roll 20-sided dice I [TS]

00:36:16   guess I just the dice installed you [TS]

00:36:17   never really sunk in with me but but but [TS]

00:36:21   you can buy a pound of dice and you can [TS]

00:36:23   buy a pundit I i have bought a pound [TS]

00:36:26   nice i highly recommend one of the best [TS]

00:36:28   investments that made two out of the [TS]

00:36:31   four of us up on Desperate so fifty [TS]

00:36:34   percent of the uncomfortable pie gasps [TS]

00:36:35   recommend you buy a pound of dice [TS]

00:36:37   immediately it is like 15 bucks [TS]

00:36:38   something and you will never buy dice [TS]

00:36:41   again [TS]

00:36:41   sure you would be a full not to buy a [TS]

00:36:43   pound of us right now yeah a fool [TS]

00:36:46   yeah go to amazon if you know I don't [TS]

00:36:49   think there's any way i can profit off [TS]

00:36:50   this but now are we getting Commission [TS]

00:36:52   was gonna ask you a Jason the [TS]

00:36:54   commissioners people's happiness that's [TS]

00:36:55   right said ten percent of your happiness [TS]

00:36:57   toss it back i'm in well I will sit out [TS]

00:37:03   i will say that i have played every [TS]

00:37:05   major version of Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:37:08   and I would fourth edition is certainly [TS]

00:37:13   the fastest and easiest to play I go out [TS]

00:37:16   so my current game we're playing fourth [TS]

00:37:18   edition and I'm actually running it and [TS]

00:37:21   we can do like three or four encounters [TS]

00:37:22   in the span of three hours and in [TS]

00:37:26   previous editions you might have spent [TS]

00:37:29   three hours getting ready to play one [TS]

00:37:31   encounter because there are a lot of [TS]

00:37:34   rules to go through that is that is a [TS]

00:37:36   pretty mean that's that's sort of a [TS]

00:37:37   tangible difference in in that amount [TS]

00:37:38   you know one of the best parts of 4th [TS]

00:37:40   edition may have just been like how [TS]

00:37:42   crazy go nuts their marketing campaign [TS]

00:37:43   was such that got like lots of people [TS]

00:37:46   excited about it [TS]

00:37:47   I mean Mike my campaign running right [TS]

00:37:50   now really only exists because a bunch [TS]

00:37:52   of people who've never played Dungeons [TS]

00:37:53   and Dragons you know saw and sporting [TS]

00:37:56   were like we should do this we should [TS]

00:37:57   make this happen to it because they you [TS]

00:38:00   know they put a ton of money into [TS]

00:38:01   advertising it everywhere i thought i [TS]

00:38:03   taw commercial for it on hulu watching [TS]

00:38:05   that those are weird commercials they're [TS]

00:38:07   weird commercials and I SAT there [TS]

00:38:09   thinking like I saw that it starts in [TS]

00:38:10   this sort of like drawn on graph paper [TS]

00:38:12   look and I'm staring at it I'm going [TS]

00:38:14   is this a commercial for D&D now I can't [TS]

00:38:17   beat that be still it and then it keeps [TS]

00:38:19   going like this is that's like I'm [TS]

00:38:21   that's like a mind flayer is something [TS]

00:38:22   that's all that sweet has brought money [TS]

00:38:26   yeah I was gonna say this is going to be [TS]

00:38:28   as well which is the coast thing because [TS]

00:38:29   it came right on the tales of those [TS]

00:38:31   magic the gathering commercials didn't [TS]

00:38:32   it [TS]

00:38:33   their magic the gathering comer y [TS]

00:38:34   absolutely totally stopped watching TV [TS]

00:38:36   at the wrong time here for the right [TS]

00:38:39   time or the right I I vaguely remember [TS]

00:38:42   some kind of you know audience testing [TS]

00:38:45   commercial that involved her loom [TS]

00:38:46   Minotaur [TS]

00:38:49   wow that's a that's an entirely [TS]

00:38:52   different podcast which I will not be on [TS]

00:38:55   that [TS]

00:38:56   you can't just walk away now after [TS]

00:38:59   introducing me to magic i introduced to [TS]

00:39:02   the magic like 18 years ago yeah well [TS]

00:39:05   the stand has never left me God that [TS]

00:39:09   number was way too high [TS]

00:39:10   I i want to know also if you guys had [TS]

00:39:13   any suggestions I think we have a lot of [TS]

00:39:16   listeners who are who are definitely [TS]

00:39:18   into you know things like science [TS]

00:39:20   fiction movies and books and stuff like [TS]

00:39:22   that but maybe fewer her interval [TS]

00:39:23   playing and so I was kind of curious if [TS]

00:39:26   you guys had any advice is quite the [TS]

00:39:29   right word but like in enticement [TS]

00:39:31   coaxing like anything that might get [TS]

00:39:35   somebody who's kind of skeptical because [TS]

00:39:36   i think i think you know most of us can [TS]

00:39:38   agree that there's something fun about [TS]

00:39:40   role-playing games and I'm kind of [TS]

00:39:43   curious as to how you might sway [TS]

00:39:45   somebody who is a little bit skeptical [TS]

00:39:46   or just unsure about giving it a try [TS]

00:39:49   I mean I think the trickiest thing about [TS]

00:39:52   role-playing games you need a group [TS]

00:39:54   that's kind of committed to meeting [TS]

00:39:55   regularly so maybe but rather than like [TS]

00:39:58   jumping right into trying to run a D&D [TS]

00:40:01   campaign you play some kind of board [TS]

00:40:04   game or something where it's it's kind [TS]

00:40:05   of a little bit lower threshold in terms [TS]

00:40:07   of a commitment we played briefly though [TS]

00:40:09   that the actual Dungeons and Dragons [TS]

00:40:11   castle ravenloft board game which you [TS]

00:40:14   know I wasn't super impressed with but [TS]

00:40:17   maybe that would be kind of a good segue [TS]

00:40:19   into seeing what is this like I gateway [TS]

00:40:21   drug the gateway drug yeah or even just [TS]

00:40:23   a one-time one-shot role-playing [TS]

00:40:24   adventure that yeah I think more than a [TS]

00:40:25   meeting and they have the FB if you're [TS]

00:40:28   crazy if you want if you're crazy if you [TS]

00:40:30   want to do touches the dragon if you're [TS]

00:40:32   its aid they came up with the the redbox [TS]

00:40:35   right which is kind of like a beginner's [TS]

00:40:38   dungeons and dragon has pre-rolled [TS]

00:40:40   characters and including makers and has [TS]

00:40:44   easier rules than even fourth edition so [TS]

00:40:46   you can just pick that up if you're [TS]

00:40:48   interested in in playing DD I mean the [TS]

00:40:51   trick is finding other people who are [TS]

00:40:53   also interested in playing rise the hard [TS]

00:40:55   part [TS]

00:40:56   I mean even if you wanted to jump to [TS]

00:40:58   playing D&D campaign wizards of the [TS]

00:41:01   coast has released the first campaign [TS]

00:41:04   that they created for 4th edition keep [TS]

00:41:06   on the Shadowfell you can download that [TS]

00:41:07   is a free pdf there [TS]

00:41:09   website I mean role-playing games are [TS]

00:41:11   not super expensive as far as obvious go [TS]

00:41:13   but you can you get into this for [TS]

00:41:15   basically free if you want to try it out [TS]

00:41:17   before sinking your life-saving into [TS]

00:41:19   miniatures and back in a dry erase [TS]

00:41:21   markers and other other stuff you don't [TS]

00:41:24   really need and i think that's that's I [TS]

00:41:27   mean what's a lot like the house doing [TS]

00:41:29   this I don't know why it's kind of hard [TS]

00:41:32   to explain i'm especially considering [TS]

00:41:34   that those stereotypes are still there [TS]

00:41:36   and when i try to explain what I enjoy [TS]

00:41:38   about it i'm very tempted to say things [TS]

00:41:42   that what will really tap into those [TS]

00:41:44   stereotypes and frankly we're talking [TS]

00:41:47   before about like when we got in like [TS]

00:41:49   role-playing games and such [TS]

00:41:50   the first thought I had was into all the [TS]

00:41:52   first time somebody Randy for me it was [TS]

00:41:54   when I was a little kid and playing with [TS]

00:41:57   my little brother with the kid down the [TS]

00:41:58   street and we pretended to be beating up [TS]

00:42:00   bad guys and going on adventures and [TS]

00:42:02   saving people and stuff because the that [TS]

00:42:04   part of like your sort of you know [TS]

00:42:06   childlike adventure brain it doesn't [TS]

00:42:09   mean it doesn't have to die you go and I [TS]

00:42:11   feel like it [TS]

00:42:12   it was the reason that we don't we stop [TS]

00:42:15   doing that to some extent is because we [TS]

00:42:18   know other people are watching us and if [TS]

00:42:21   there's a way that it can be engaged in [TS]

00:42:23   and you dress it up however you want a [TS]

00:42:26   dress that's all we're doing it using [TS]

00:42:28   you know figures and math and so it's [TS]

00:42:30   much more complicated and intricate [TS]

00:42:32   technical map if that's what you got to [TS]

00:42:33   do they call it back sharp [TS]

00:42:35   personally I like to think of it in [TS]

00:42:36   terms of the width and the kind of role [TS]

00:42:39   players like to play too [TS]

00:42:41   I like to think it was geared toward [TS]

00:42:42   more like improvisational acting then [TS]

00:42:45   necessarily more like a war game I like [TS]

00:42:48   you know just putting on another role [TS]

00:42:50   for a lot like to think of it is is a [TS]

00:42:52   also sort of analogous to just telling a [TS]

00:42:55   story with a bunch of friends help which [TS]

00:42:58   is i mean i really liked writing i [TS]

00:42:59   really like storytelling and I feel like [TS]

00:43:01   you get together and it's potentially [TS]

00:43:03   free as Tony said and yet you're getting [TS]

00:43:04   a better story than what most Hollywood [TS]

00:43:06   movies are going to give you and you [TS]

00:43:08   feel like you helped make that story [TS]

00:43:09   which is something that you know [TS]

00:43:11   computer role-playing games and video [TS]

00:43:12   game role-playing games can let you do [TS]

00:43:13   too but they're so restrictive compared [TS]

00:43:16   to what you can do with just [TS]

00:43:17   improvisational thinking among your [TS]

00:43:20   and such so that that's that's my why i [TS]

00:43:23   think i think i agree with that night I [TS]

00:43:25   really personally I love storytelling as [TS]

00:43:27   well and I do a lot of writing but you [TS]

00:43:30   know there's definitely a point where [TS]

00:43:31   you feel totally tapped out and writing [TS]

00:43:33   and you're staring at a blank screen [TS]

00:43:34   you're just frustrated that you can tell [TS]

00:43:36   stories does go fast enough or whatever [TS]

00:43:38   and so having that element of being able [TS]

00:43:40   to sit around with a bunch of friends [TS]

00:43:41   and tell that story and not having like [TS]

00:43:44   the feeling stymied in terms of like i [TS]

00:43:47   got i just can't think of what's going [TS]

00:43:48   to happen next like things sort of get [TS]

00:43:50   pushed along with or without you and you [TS]

00:43:51   have to adapt and and react and things [TS]

00:43:54   like that I find that really appealing [TS]

00:43:55   and I and I agree that there is a large [TS]

00:43:58   element of improvisational acting to the [TS]

00:44:00   role-playing elements of the game and so [TS]

00:44:02   you can sort of it's a nice mix between [TS]

00:44:05   that and something that's just like a [TS]

00:44:06   board game which engages a different [TS]

00:44:08   part of your brain and makes you think [TS]

00:44:09   about strategy and tactics and you know [TS]

00:44:12   it's nice to be able to take a break [TS]

00:44:13   when you're playing D&D and maybe it's [TS]

00:44:15   like all right you got like you know a [TS]

00:44:16   few minutes like rolling dice and [TS]

00:44:18   thinking about numbers and lookin at [TS]

00:44:19   your sheet and everything and then you [TS]

00:44:21   know maybe you know 15 20 minutes of my [TS]

00:44:23   car now I'm going to like interact is [TS]

00:44:24   this character and there's a lot of [TS]

00:44:26   different parts of your brain that [TS]

00:44:28   getting engaged by that which I i really [TS]

00:44:30   enjoy [TS]

00:44:31   no but maybe that's because I'm a loser [TS]

00:44:35   I don't think it's interesting that my [TS]

00:44:38   girlfriend i was i was trying to get a [TS]

00:44:41   sense of what people like about the game [TS]

00:44:43   that I i I've been running on and off [TS]

00:44:45   for the last several months and so I [TS]

00:44:47   asked you Tony what are you getting out [TS]

00:44:48   of standard you getting this is my [TS]

00:44:50   girlfriend when she gets out of that and [TS]

00:44:51   she said I just like seeing you act [TS]

00:44:54   really funny and playing different [TS]

00:44:55   characters and so like she basically [TS]

00:44:57   just shows up because you know other [TS]

00:44:58   people she is his friends with are there [TS]

00:45:01   and one of them happens to be her [TS]

00:45:04   boyfriend you goofs off cool completely [TS]

00:45:07   so I feel like that social element is [TS]

00:45:09   such a central part of it too you know [TS]

00:45:12   yeah absolutely well one other question [TS]

00:45:16   asks or as we're wrapping up here is do [TS]

00:45:18   you guys have a favorite like a [TS]

00:45:20   memorable character or like a favorite [TS]

00:45:24   character that you've played at some [TS]

00:45:25   point in the past either from you know [TS]

00:45:28   like a story perspective or whatever it [TS]

00:45:30   just in terms of something you really [TS]

00:45:31   liked about them [TS]

00:45:33   I i do have a character I played this [TS]

00:45:36   character who was a drought help and if [TS]

00:45:40   you're not familiar with the dungeons [TS]

00:45:42   and dragons setting brownells are evil [TS]

00:45:46   school can see it and then living for [TS]

00:45:49   dat paper dioramas they live underground [TS]

00:45:51   and they have magical cities and they [TS]

00:45:53   worship spiders and it all makes sense [TS]

00:45:57   I play this so he was an archer who was [TS]

00:46:02   blind and chaotic evil and I i played [TS]

00:46:08   him for many years and through the [TS]

00:46:11   course it wasn't really is everything [TS]

00:46:13   characters and that's just kind of a [TS]

00:46:14   manifestation of yourself as well it's [TS]

00:46:16   true it's just it's the other part of me [TS]

00:46:18   and at one point our party had a paladin [TS]

00:46:22   in it and if you don't know what [TS]

00:46:23   paladins are there are you know these [TS]

00:46:25   these exemplars of all that is good in [TS]

00:46:28   the world and in fact they can detect [TS]

00:46:30   evil and if they find evil characters [TS]

00:46:32   generally they don't want to associate [TS]

00:46:33   with them so for whatever reason the [TS]

00:46:36   person playing the Paladin did not ever [TS]

00:46:39   do anything to me put my character [TS]

00:46:42   plotted to assassinate the paladin and i [TS]

00:46:45   did in fact kill the paladin and then [TS]

00:46:48   throughout the course of our adventure [TS]

00:46:49   we came across some treasure and the DM [TS]

00:46:52   kind of nonchalantly said oh and there [TS]

00:46:54   are many platinum bars which is what you [TS]

00:47:00   would take if you are an evil character [TS]

00:47:01   so I i had a bag of holding and I took [TS]

00:47:03   all of our platinum bars and I had so [TS]

00:47:07   much money that diem was like you have [TS]

00:47:08   to do something with all this money and [TS]

00:47:10   you can't buy magic items so I built the [TS]

00:47:13   castle and hired an army [TS]

00:47:15   I invited the rest of the characters to [TS]

00:47:19   come to my castle and i have my army [TS]

00:47:21   killed them [TS]

00:47:26   wow wow as do you still have friends [TS]

00:47:29   after that I well that was what i was [TS]

00:47:32   going to college so I was like a play [TS]

00:47:36   with you guys can I guess I'm gonna cut [TS]

00:47:38   those ties it all [TS]

00:47:40   that's that's pretty mercenary there wow [TS]

00:47:42   yeah I got I got nothin like that I [TS]

00:47:45   don't want to follow I care my friends [TS]

00:47:47   it's really it's really holding me back [TS]

00:47:49   is a play wasn't going to let you scan [TS]

00:47:52   and i have to admit i don't i don't [TS]

00:47:55   think back to any character i ever [TS]

00:47:57   played is one that i found particularly [TS]

00:47:58   interesting or I mean you know i have [TS]

00:48:00   had fun playing but when you ask me like [TS]

00:48:03   my favorite character had a chance to [TS]

00:48:04   play was actually one of the non-player [TS]

00:48:06   characters for for the denominator that [TS]

00:48:08   we've been playing it and not really [TS]

00:48:10   because of what I did with it but [TS]

00:48:12   because of because of my players did [TS]

00:48:13   with it [TS]

00:48:15   this character's name is and ross are [TS]

00:48:17   the nose look who I mean it's not [TS]

00:48:21   educate commonly known as Andy yeah and [TS]

00:48:23   I mean isn't that his name is not really [TS]

00:48:25   address our concerns he lives in West [TS]

00:48:26   Philadelphia and he would like to be a [TS]

00:48:28   wuss or someday and he was basically [TS]

00:48:31   just put into the game to be comic [TS]

00:48:33   relief as you know this this perfectly [TS]

00:48:35   mundane human who is constantly hanging [TS]

00:48:37   around haranguing the player characters [TS]

00:48:39   trying to get them to take them along [TS]

00:48:40   adventures and stuff it would definitely [TS]

00:48:42   be detrimental to his health and just [TS]

00:48:45   constantly just being underfoot and it [TS]

00:48:47   just wanted to put them in there [TS]

00:48:48   basically that to have a laugh and maybe [TS]

00:48:52   to get him killed eventually instead as [TS]

00:48:55   a sort of hollow-point boiler is 100 [TS]

00:48:59   but that's that's not what happened the [TS]

00:49:01   the day that he was going to potentially [TS]

00:49:02   get killed [TS]

00:49:04   what it is is kind of what i actually [TS]

00:49:06   started liking him as a character [TS]

00:49:07   because um one of the players basically [TS]

00:49:11   i'm shocked him into fainting and said [TS]

00:49:14   essentially you know this is what this [TS]

00:49:16   is really David here's a decapitated had [TS]

00:49:18   this problem this is really dangerous [TS]

00:49:21   what were involved with its you should [TS]

00:49:24   you should really get away but if you're [TS]

00:49:26   really committed to helping us then just [TS]

00:49:28   be aware of what this we're getting [TS]

00:49:29   involved with and putting it in that [TS]

00:49:32   didn't actually occur to me that he [TS]

00:49:33   would be invited in [TS]

00:49:34   in that way and that's what he had been [TS]

00:49:36   looking for so I was just kind of like [TS]

00:49:38   all right I guess he'll take it and he [TS]

00:49:40   ended up actually growing as a character [TS]

00:49:43   which is something i never actually been [TS]

00:49:44   intended for him and so I guess I like [TS]

00:49:47   that character as someone who sort of [TS]

00:49:50   represents that sort of collaborative [TS]

00:49:52   aspect of storytelling that like if it [TS]

00:49:53   hadn't been for what my players were [TS]

00:49:55   doing then things would have taken a [TS]

00:49:57   completely different completely [TS]

00:49:59   different turn it is just an idea I mean [TS]

00:50:02   he's still gonna be around for comic [TS]

00:50:03   relief but you know probably won't kill [TS]

00:50:05   me but that is really i mean but it's [TS]

00:50:09   cool to have somebody developing I i [TS]

00:50:10   think very similarly about like TV shows [TS]

00:50:12   i like where you know you start with a [TS]

00:50:14   character who might be a little bit [TS]

00:50:15   off-putting or sort of comic and then [TS]

00:50:18   and then develop surprising depth depth [TS]

00:50:21   or to have visitors if it's bad I can't [TS]

00:50:25   talk to make their but you know I think [TS]

00:50:27   it's their bodies a great example of [TS]

00:50:29   many of there are a lot of characters [TS]

00:50:30   you start off as kind of annoying comic [TS]

00:50:32   relief characters who also who actually [TS]

00:50:33   develop these really you know other in [TS]

00:50:37   you know other sides of their characters [TS]

00:50:39   that really show off the dramatic angles [TS]

00:50:41   whenever somebody it's cool when that [TS]

00:50:42   happens in a game that's sort of [TS]

00:50:44   improvisational don't need you have a [TS]

00:50:47   digital with characters give enough time [TS]

00:50:49   I you know maybe Mike the characters and [TS]

00:50:51   player this are just not there to to [TS]

00:50:53   one-dimensional my cuz i tend to [TS]

00:50:55   remember the stories to take place in [TS]

00:50:59   the adventure more than my characters [TS]

00:51:00   Tom I don't know it's kind of amusing [TS]

00:51:02   when you play guess maybe I maybe [TS]

00:51:04   there's a little Scott McNulty and all [TS]

00:51:05   of us when you play [TS]

00:51:07   everything is antagonistic toward toward [TS]

00:51:10   the group I mean there's a game of dread [TS]

00:51:12   where I would play the like basically [TS]

00:51:14   drug-addicted doctor who you know how [TS]

00:51:16   yeah and I i played him as a [TS]

00:51:18   drug-addicted doctor he wasn't very [TS]

00:51:20   reliable he had issues he had a bookie [TS]

00:51:24   loan money to let you know other players [TS]

00:51:27   found that frustrating and get in the [TS]

00:51:31   gate one of the games of a nominated [TS]

00:51:33   play-by-play uh an angel who was [TS]

00:51:35   basically like the NARC of angels and he [TS]

00:51:37   wants it was his job to go around like [TS]

00:51:39   make sure the other angels were like you [TS]

00:51:41   know keeping it clean and not swearing [TS]

00:51:43   and stuff and one of the other hairs [TS]

00:51:45   would like want to murder people all the [TS]

00:51:46   time and they would like you like shake [TS]

00:51:48   his head and he'd get really pissed off [TS]

00:51:50   so that's basically like buying a castle [TS]

00:51:54   and hiring an army to have all your [TS]

00:51:56   friends killed he trips up to step down [TS]

00:52:00   but yeah close you could work up to it [TS]

00:52:01   but I mean I and I guess perhaps and [TS]

00:52:04   perhaps it's unfortunate but it's it's [TS]

00:52:06   fun to play a character that other [TS]

00:52:08   players react to a little bit though [TS]

00:52:10   perhaps it doesn't always have to be in [TS]

00:52:12   kind of a obstacle antagonistic kind of [TS]

00:52:14   way because I I'm you know their games i [TS]

00:52:17   played with other people wear when [TS]

00:52:19   somebody creates a character that [TS]

00:52:20   becomes like a bigger problem that [TS]

00:52:22   whatever the problem you're trying to [TS]

00:52:23   solve is that can be a little [TS]

00:52:24   frustrating but yeah I think it's kind [TS]

00:52:26   of it's fun for me when that happens [TS]

00:52:28   recognize a little here or if it's a DM [TS]

00:52:30   because we're playing is so much about [TS]

00:52:32   cooperating [TS]

00:52:34   yes whenever you have something or [TS]

00:52:36   someone a character that doesn't [TS]

00:52:38   cooperate and kind of breaks that kind [TS]

00:52:40   of trope it makes it a little more [TS]

00:52:42   interesting for me and probably [TS]

00:52:43   frustrating for everyone else but just I [TS]

00:52:45   find it interesting the one of the more [TS]

00:52:47   frustrating experiences in my ill-fated [TS]

00:52:49   vampire the masquerade games one of the [TS]

00:52:52   characters it what the other players [TS]

00:52:54   playing a character like his thing would [TS]

00:52:57   that he would he would go into like a [TS]

00:52:58   murderous rage and kill lots of people [TS]

00:53:00   and then like come out of it and not [TS]

00:53:02   remember anything like we spent three [TS]

00:53:05   games s in a room where all we were [TS]

00:53:06   doing was hiding bodies of people that [TS]

00:53:08   this guy get killed [TS]

00:53:11   likely we like I mean there was like an [TS]

00:53:13   ongoing mission that we were supposed to [TS]

00:53:14   be addressing but no words we're busy [TS]

00:53:16   like cleaning up after this guy all the [TS]

00:53:18   time it's like you know you had three [TS]

00:53:20   bodies and it loses a little charm i [TS]

00:53:23   think that is and three Bob and [TS]

00:53:25   everything especially you know the [TS]

00:53:27   player would sit there smugly like [TS]

00:53:28   laughing at all of us as we you know [TS]

00:53:30   scrambled to clean up the chaos has [TS]

00:53:32   created I'm just saying you kill [TS]

00:53:34   somebody you don't pitch it on on how [TS]

00:53:36   your body what kind of vampire are you [TS]

00:53:38   and but at least that makes a good story [TS]

00:53:39   I think I'm more and more inclined to [TS]

00:53:42   forgive the player who's being a jerk [TS]

00:53:44   for the sake of making things [TS]

00:53:45   interesting [TS]

00:53:46   then forgive the player who is [TS]

00:53:47   completely unintentional ed railing the [TS]

00:53:49   game by obsessing over rules [TS]

00:53:51   I I mean Rose lawyers is my least [TS]

00:53:54   favorite form of person [TS]

00:53:57   Hitler was in ruins lawyer oh wow [TS]

00:54:02   Godwin's law Oh understand this week I [TS]

00:54:07   mean we had we had we had a player in [TS]

00:54:08   this denominator game good dear dear [TS]

00:54:10   friend of mine who's no longer allowed [TS]

00:54:12   to play no longer allowed to play the [TS]

00:54:14   kind of angel who possesses people [TS]

00:54:15   because our meetings became this sort of [TS]

00:54:18   tedium of hierarchy so I've got two [TS]

00:54:21   pigeons and I've got this guy's a drug [TS]

00:54:23   dealer but it's in my nature to leave [TS]

00:54:24   him in better shape than I found him and [TS]

00:54:26   so dan you gotta give me fifty bucks as [TS]

00:54:29   if the guy had a good day selling drugs [TS]

00:54:31   because I'm yeah let's talk about what [TS]

00:54:34   it's like to live life as a drug dealer [TS]

00:54:35   power my pigeons doing remember exactly [TS]

00:54:37   and so that this is what are this is [TS]

00:54:39   what our adventure became was taking [TS]

00:54:41   care of pigeons and drug dealers that [TS]

00:54:44   was that was definitely not what I [TS]

00:54:46   signed up for when i signed up to be an [TS]

00:54:49   angel [TS]

00:54:50   yeah i was gonna cheat a little bit for [TS]

00:54:53   mine which is that this is a character I [TS]

00:54:55   played in an online game a role-playing [TS]

00:54:57   game home which was a star wars base now [TS]

00:55:00   even when I totally get yeah I got Scott [TS]

00:55:02   really riled up over there wasn't an [TS]

00:55:04   Ewok it was not any you are sadly no you [TS]

00:55:09   see keeps the sort of a smuggler [TS]

00:55:11   mercenary type of courses helped a but [TS]

00:55:15   it-it-it yes everyone's laughing because [TS]

00:55:17   I play I template syntax characters [TS]

00:55:19   I'm very unoriginal and so in this [TS]

00:55:22   particular character head [TS]

00:55:24   signed up to help a a Imperial Admiral [TS]

00:55:27   defect in the game and he managed to you [TS]

00:55:31   know get this guy out and you know that [TS]

00:55:33   life was going fine until one day when [TS]

00:55:36   he was walking down the street and got [TS]

00:55:38   into a sort of discussion with this [TS]

00:55:40   someone else and then destroyed started [TS]

00:55:43   suspiciously coming over so being the [TS]

00:55:45   suspicious type II shot the droid which [TS]

00:55:47   turned out to be full of explosives and [TS]

00:55:49   actually died and i was i was very sad [TS]

00:55:51   that he died and i could not believe [TS]

00:55:53   that i had actually had a character [TS]

00:55:55   totally just killed in front of my eyes [TS]

00:55:57   and it was it was a pretty pretty moving [TS]

00:56:00   experience for me I said to your [TS]

00:56:02   character deaths and be as the person [TS]

00:56:04   who has caused many of them can be [TS]

00:56:05   traumatic experience especially in a [TS]

00:56:10   game system where resurrection is not [TS]

00:56:12   nor it's not like wow he's dead but [TS]

00:56:14   there's enough pieces of them left we [TS]

00:56:15   can hold him back to the healer [TS]

00:56:16   yeah i mean it can be very permanently [TS]

00:56:18   you know and and when you spend a lot of [TS]

00:56:20   time invested a lot of time in building [TS]

00:56:22   a character that then you know through [TS]

00:56:24   for whatever reason he just doesn't make [TS]

00:56:27   it out i think you know it can be very [TS]

00:56:29   it can be very affecting if anybody's [TS]

00:56:32   listen to the the penny arcade podcast [TS]

00:56:34   yeah which they do a role-playing game [TS]

00:56:36   one of the one of the main characters [TS]

00:56:38   dies after being trapped in a pool of [TS]

00:56:40   Ascension acid it's very set worst kind [TS]

00:56:45   of acid and he's very angry he didn't [TS]

00:56:48   feel he was angry [TS]

00:56:49   yeah yeah well you know that that's [TS]

00:56:52   definitely you invest a lot of time and [TS]

00:56:54   and and emotion in building your [TS]

00:56:55   character and turning him into a real [TS]

00:56:57   fleshed-out person and then you throw it [TS]

00:56:59   all away by walking into ascension acid [TS]

00:57:01   i think there's something we can all [TS]

00:57:04   learn that stay away from Santa [TS]

00:57:06   desiccants what we've got to the PSA [TS]

00:57:10   fortunate that you use the buddy system [TS]

00:57:11   for goodness sake don't split the [TS]

00:57:14   parties yeah really [TS]

00:57:16   I i will say in New the words of [TS]

00:57:19   Scotland healthy this podcast is over or [TS]

00:57:22   more or less over [TS]

00:57:23   well we we we have pretty much reached [TS]

00:57:25   the end of our allotted hour so I want [TS]

00:57:28   to thank you guys all for joining me and [TS]

00:57:30   being willing to talk about dungeons [TS]

00:57:33   dragons [TS]

00:57:34   yes yes I'm going to be distorting your [TS]

00:57:35   voices and changing your name soon [TS]

00:57:37   he actually knows who you are thank you [TS]

00:57:39   Tony your work anytime thanks Jason [TS]

00:57:43   tossing thank you for someone in need [TS]

00:57:44   and of course Scott mcafee thank you and [TS]

00:57:48   we'll see you next time [TS]

00:57:59   that I [TS]

00:58:11   the other ducks on campaign that I [TS]

00:58:13   played [TS]

00:58:14   once again showing my twisted nature I [TS]

00:58:16   had all my players they're very excited [TS]

00:58:18   because this isn't dark sun second [TS]

00:58:20   edition first came out it was like [TS]

00:58:22   nothing in that that I guess tsr at the [TS]

00:58:25   time had ever done before so we're all [TS]

00:58:26   very excited spent hours making of [TS]

00:58:29   characters and giving equipment and at [TS]

00:58:30   that in the first edition [TS]

00:58:32   well the second edition dark sun you [TS]

00:58:34   start off in third level because it was [TS]

00:58:36   so difficult yep so they they spent like [TS]

00:58:38   hours creating characters and coming up [TS]

00:58:40   with the perfect equipment and I said [TS]

00:58:42   okay started the adventure [TS]

00:58:44   they were all you know whatever doing [TS]

00:58:46   something in the city and I said you're [TS]

00:58:48   captured by slavers and they take all [TS]

00:58:49   the stuff that happens you Scott [TS]

00:58:55   it was awesome [TS]