0:00:00despite gas is being recorded for
0:00:02quality assurance purposes to say to
0:00:05make sure we don't have any breathing
0:00:08three keep walkin
0:00:09ali-a game the incomparable podcast
0:00:15episode 44 this amber 2010 go to adjust
0:00:22your podcast this is uncomfortable I am
0:00:25NOT Jason's now amazingly no I am guest
0:00:28host Daniel or jason l couldn't be with
0:00:30us tonight for reasons that are better
0:00:32left on disclosed because then he'll
0:00:34yell at me if I make something up but
0:00:36we're here to talk about video games
0:00:38which is a topic we have not previously
0:00:40done on the uncomfortable
0:00:42joining me is a kind of a I think the
0:00:44only thing fair to call them as a
0:00:45rogue's gallery of incomparable
0:00:47contributors road was a great game
0:00:50yeah we have so we'll go down the list
0:00:54here we have Greg NOS how you doing Greg
0:00:56good about yourself i am doing pretty
0:00:58well we have Steve lots yata hey mixing
0:01:04it up a little bit
0:01:05that's right i'm in my hometown actually
0:01:09in Newton Massachusetts we have John
0:01:10siracusa good evening everybody and a
0:01:14new incomparable contributor a personal
0:01:17friend of mine Tony sindelar LTE i I'm
0:01:21so you have video games
0:01:22this is something we talked about a lot
0:01:24we talked about some books we talk about
0:01:25movies and TV but I think video games is
0:01:27a really important part of geek culture
0:01:30and I i know many of you are avid gamers
0:01:33some more recently in something in more
0:01:35of a vintage fashion but the answer
0:01:37curious to start off now just to see are
0:01:39you calling me old
0:01:41I yes yes I'm telling you everything
0:01:43nice does has been to I was being polite
0:01:47maybe I should dial this something start
0:01:50being real Tyler for classic I caught
0:01:56your effort that's where i'm with you
0:01:57somebody is with you
0:01:58ok thank God somebody's here so I'm here
0:02:02is where you guys two things one where
0:02:05you started out playing videos like so
0:02:06one of the earliest video games you
0:02:08remember playing and then maybe what
0:02:10you've been playing more recently
0:02:12or what you you know what system you use
0:02:14nowadays if any of you know and go
0:02:17around the table with that Greg what you
0:02:19got
0:02:19i started at the dawn of time i played
0:02:23the original space war i played in you
0:02:26know the arcade version in a Shakey's
0:02:28you could drill a hole in a quarter and
0:02:30put a string on it and rack up any
0:02:31number of credits that you wanted before
0:02:33they figured out to mount the whole
0:02:34vertically rather than horizontally
0:02:36that's a different sort of game
0:02:37yeah that's the classic shakeys and not
0:02:40this new Fang yeah you know this is this
0:02:41is the shakey's of 30 years ago they
0:02:44didn't have a ranch dressing background
0:02:46to dip your fries but we had ketchup and
0:02:48we liked it it was a hamster of world
0:02:51apparently I i played like the odyssey
0:02:55to I had an atari VCS the 2600 I am I
0:03:00remember when space invaders came out
0:03:02because it was the first game that had a
0:03:04lot of enemies rather than one little
0:03:06blip moving at you
0:03:08night driver all the all the old arcade
0:03:11games that's that's what I grew up on
0:03:12I'm retracting my vintage comment and
0:03:14just going back to old yeah Paleolithic
0:03:18i believe is the actual technical term
0:03:20and then I did it I i played regularly
0:03:24as I was growing up it's one of the
0:03:25reasons that i became a programmer's
0:03:27because I wanted to make my own and then
0:03:28just stopped got busy games became an
0:03:32investment of time that I just couldn't
0:03:34make any more for large part and that's
0:03:36changing with mobile stuff but man the
0:03:39the kids these days
0:03:42yeah there's there's certainly uh it's
0:03:44certainly become much more mainstream in
0:03:45some ways then than it ever has been
0:03:47before
0:03:48well i think that you know of my control
0:03:49like a solid black ops is is like the
0:03:53biggest media launch ever i was i was
0:03:58amused to see there was an entire week's
0:04:00worth of doing is very strips about it I
0:04:02mean that you know things are doing our
0:04:04mains are tightly it's really convenient
0:04:06when it happens because then like old
0:04:07people ask you about stuff I read in the
0:04:12news interior strips on Newton to some
0:04:15of his old people actually have to ask
0:04:16ourselves about it
0:04:18it's gotten that bad Steve what about
0:04:20you where did you start up I my first
0:04:23game system was pong and yeah the the
0:04:26black and white one that hooked up to
0:04:28your TV it was like one console paddles
0:04:30didn't even detach from the main console
0:04:32on my earliest memories is watching my
0:04:34brother defeat my uncle with his feet is
0:04:39that with pong or just in general that
0:04:42you know it wasn't a comfort food-type
0:04:43thing he was playing pong but it was a
0:04:45it was still a lasting a lasting image i
0:04:47actually have a super pong console in
0:04:50the other room
0:04:51it's the the one that came afterwards
0:04:52that has four games pong volleyball
0:04:55basketball and super palm well what the
0:04:57hell are we doing on this podcast break
0:04:59that out come on
0:05:00is that a magnavox item no no this is
0:05:03this is the Atari pong super pong it
0:05:05takes like 90 batteries you could kill
0:05:07somebody with it by saying that and now
0:05:09is it still functional because they used
0:05:12to make those things totally bulletproof
0:05:13me it is it is heavy as a brick and the
0:05:16only way I don't have an RF converter to
0:05:18hook it up to the back of the TV antenna
0:05:20you can hear the ratchets and gears
0:05:22because it's a very very tired squirrel
0:05:25who makes it go smell burning and then I
0:05:29kind of continued on you know had the
0:05:32VCS had the Nintendo when it came out I
0:05:35took a break during the college years to
0:05:37do some heavy drinking and then out when
0:05:40I came to my senses I kind of got back
0:05:42into gaming a little bit and I now that
0:05:45I've got kids that are growing up just
0:05:47high tech to begin with they are you
0:05:50know they're they're starting to get
0:05:51into it and I'm kind of finding a new
0:05:52lease on gaming watching them play stuff
0:05:55which is interesting but the most recent
0:05:59foray into gaming is I picked up a
0:06:03connect which is the new ya microcon a
0:06:0660 based motion tracking camera i'm
0:06:09fascinated York magic acid hear about
0:06:12this because I played I played a little
0:06:13bit of weed but I have not played the
0:06:14connected all I've actually a friend
0:06:16who's got one and was actually really
0:06:19pumped about it which was kind of
0:06:20surprised because he is you know not
0:06:22necessarily out like a hardcore gamer as
0:06:24it were but he certainly plays you know
0:06:26plenty xbox shooters things like that
0:06:28and so I was very curious value but he
0:06:30was really excited about
0:06:31dance central I guess which is one of
0:06:34the launch titles for Kinect and even
0:06:36said some of the other ones like
0:06:37collectibles were even kind of cool so
0:06:39I'm kind of fascinated by this but I
0:06:42don't know what to make of a quite yet
0:06:44I was really into my way for a while to
0:06:46and that Bob yeah that was during the
0:06:48college years as well that would be good
0:06:50sound bite for the end by the way when
0:06:53you use the word really pumped to in
0:06:55that I'm John how are you
0:06:58I think I'm like a little bit after the
0:07:00old folks here i didn't i didn't have
0:07:02pong but I my big barrier with my
0:07:05parents would not let me have a video
0:07:06game machine of any kind of my childhood
0:07:09so all I'll school you all my
0:07:11experiences with my friends so my first
0:07:14friend who had a video game thing hadn't
0:07:16already 2600 knows my first games and I
0:07:18played you know boom and night driver
0:07:20and stuff like that adventure but only
0:07:23when I was visiting over the house you
0:07:25have that type of thing and I don't
0:07:26remember being that excited about it
0:07:28matter they're neat put like I think I
0:07:30didn't really think the graphics for
0:07:31that great and then I just didn't I
0:07:35remember that a that impression then I i
0:07:37moved up through you know personal
0:07:38computers i get a pic 20 and stuff like
0:07:40that and then i got a Mac and I ended up
0:07:44being a mac gamer sort of by default
0:07:46because I didn't have I wasn't allowed
0:07:47to buy consoles so I play nes over my
0:07:50friends house and you know
0:07:51sega genesis and super nintendo and
0:07:53stuff like that but in my house all i
0:07:55had was the mac and so I bought tons and
0:07:57tons of mac games which is a weird way
0:07:59to sort of grew up as a gamer because it
0:08:01probably had a late
0:08:03well there was a lot of games believe me
0:08:05I mean I've got stuck up the boxes for
0:08:06them you know there are a lot of games
0:08:08most of them are horrible but and they
0:08:09were black and white right but they had
0:08:11really high resolution like that I
0:08:13resolution super drunk ass over here and
0:08:16put cafe that was a great that was a
0:08:18great show those ends to my friends who
0:08:20had consoles and and despite that I
0:08:22could they were black and white they're
0:08:23blown away but think about dark castle
0:08:24like me know nobody in console you could
0:08:27buy had that kind of resolution those
0:08:28kind of graphics and animation that kind
0:08:30of detail right it was just you know
0:08:32unearthly with mac games were like the
0:08:34mac software is there's a ton of detail
0:08:36that would go into it all the little
0:08:37Courtright weeks and you know you played
0:08:38dark castle and christmas and the suit
0:08:40of armor would turn into a Christmas
0:08:42tree
0:08:43yeah and another thing about it was that
0:08:45even even pc gaming like pc gaming with
0:08:47CGA and EGA you could actually get
0:08:49colors that were not teal and pink
0:08:51ribbon so I played pc games with my
0:08:53friends houses and you got a problem if
0:08:54you think you can still see the
0:08:57different you come back over the mac my
0:08:58black and white mac with a 9 inch screen
0:09:00and you know it was just amazing
0:09:02I kind of stayed and I get over a while
0:09:05and then you know eventually came out of
0:09:08it when I you don't want to college and
0:09:09could I got out of my parents house
0:09:11basically you can buy my own video game
0:09:12consoles for myself and just you know
0:09:14sailed off into the sunset of console
0:09:17modern console gaming modern pc / mac
0:09:20gaming Amish no more and someone is over
0:09:23but I mean I did play a lot of the NES
0:09:25classic and stuff like that but just all
0:09:26of our friends house so i didn't have
0:09:28the full experience but i do feel like i
0:09:30had this exotic it's like growing up on
0:09:31a tropical island this exotica gaming a
0:09:34you know crucible of growing up on mac
0:09:36games that get some pretty I mean I had
0:09:39a very similar experience in some ways
0:09:40but before I mentioned that like tony is
0:09:42one of my contemporaries what about
0:09:44where did you start out playing I think
0:09:47probably the first games I really then
0:09:48on boss games on a very old computer
0:09:52pretty windows and none of the names
0:09:54really stick with me
0:09:56um I mean I remember having floppy disks
0:09:59that would have like multiple games on
0:10:00them and you know they would be very
0:10:02simple i think one of the earliest thing
0:10:04I remember was an incredibly incredibly
0:10:06simplistic side-scroller we're like a
0:10:08little helicopter over out on the screen
0:10:10will go up and down
0:10:11um and I agonized a nintendo you know
0:10:15the late eighties people have the
0:10:16original Nintendo but i was also the
0:10:18moment my nintendo disappeared at a
0:10:20certain point because my parents thought
0:10:23to determine the video games or adding
0:10:25words I have two younger brothers and
0:10:27there was there was an incident with
0:10:28comment1 one day I was the end of that
0:10:31and you moved in with John at this point
0:10:33it just just for reference for most of
0:10:35us make our livings now with technology
0:10:37right yeah and well I and there were
0:10:40there was a strange kind of disconnect
0:10:41there in the video games were not okay
0:10:44but computer games were okay
0:10:47exactly my parents never saw that
0:10:50loophole either like they wouldn't let
0:10:51me get a video game has all but all i do
0:10:53is play video games on my computer all
0:10:54began
0:10:55Peter wasn't like you like dedicated to
0:10:57guess that might as well have been for
0:10:59you know forget no games and mac paint
0:11:01basically apparently never stop party
0:11:04girls on the c64 strip poker on the
0:11:06Atari 400 all yeah it was like when you
0:11:09try to regulate anything that you don't
0:11:10quite understand i was also not allowed
0:11:12to play violent video games so much of
0:11:14my game passed from the late eighties
0:11:17and and into the nineties would've been
0:11:19a graphic adventures by lucasarts and
0:11:22Sarah we're kind of foundation of that I
0:11:25remember when I LucasArts game dark
0:11:27forces came out which is basically Star
0:11:29Wars doom that that was like there was
0:11:31there was a great risk there because you
0:11:33know I knew I was not allowed to play
0:11:34violent video games but I'm very very
0:11:37very very very much wanted to play
0:11:39resources because you know Star Wars but
0:11:43so yeah there's kind of a disparity
0:11:44there i had a very similar experience
0:11:46and in some ways in that i did not have
0:11:48a computer until I was probably you know
0:11:51like 90 91 or something like that
0:11:53i canna I can't imagine you ever
0:11:54consider but before that I got a I ended
0:11:59up with the with an original nintendo
0:12:00and the only reason that happened as i
0:12:03found out many years later was because
0:12:05my dad actually want it at a like
0:12:07supermarket like like sweepstakes thing
0:12:10so he won like an original nintendo it
0:12:13came with like three or four games
0:12:15including Zelda the original zelda super
0:12:17mario brothers and a couple other like a
0:12:21couple of those nice nes advantage
0:12:22controllers out and I was super psyched
0:12:25right because you know I i never thought
0:12:26i was going to get a video game system
0:12:28but then I had the disappointing
0:12:31experience of realizing that i was
0:12:33really very bad most video games on the
0:12:35original nintendo which I'll argue are a
0:12:37lot of work a lot harder than they are
0:12:39today I mean a lot of games didn't have
0:12:41any way to save anything or you know the
0:12:44only way they have ensuring longevity
0:12:45was by making them hard so i would i
0:12:48would intent like complete repeatedly
0:12:51falling pits and just be so like
0:12:53frustrated taking me hours to get to
0:12:55that point or whatever that I would just
0:12:57throw it down in frustration i think
0:12:58there was still very much to develop
0:13:00design ethos from arcade games where
0:13:02by making it difficult EU generated more
0:13:05money
0:13:05yeah well then you have to justify the
0:13:0740 bucks she dropped on the game but it
0:13:10wasn't that bad because they they they
0:13:12did have games that you could finish and
0:13:14yes a day or two right they weren't like
0:13:16arcade games are really there was no
0:13:17kill screen at the end right this is
0:13:19treats alba and it means elbows one of
0:13:21the first games actually have saving on
0:13:22the cart but the key was you just the
0:13:24select button you could pause for days
0:13:26and days as you tried to sleep with the
0:13:29fear that your brother was gonna go in
0:13:30there your friend accidentally hit the
0:13:31power button on your lost the game
0:13:33that's been paused you know and they
0:13:35weren't even there were the idea kind of
0:13:37rudimentary things where they wouldn't
0:13:38have saved games but they would let you
0:13:40have load states i remember that i could
0:13:41become a good man to have like a grid
0:13:43with dots
0:13:44yeah and i remember having like sheets
0:13:46of those in my house is your tribe is
0:13:48Megan to you could choose different
0:13:50paths in terms of which bosses you'd
0:13:52fight first and they were optimal build
0:13:54orders and I'd have liked the tax paper
0:13:56different permutations and it's i think
0:13:58at one point I was trying to guess track
0:13:59things in that you know it didn't work
0:14:01out
0:14:02yeah i would throw that I went from
0:14:04Nintendo to the to the mac kind of like
0:14:06kind of like John and I i remember
0:14:08having my first very disappointing
0:14:10experience out right after we got our
0:14:11first computer i took my dad out to the
0:14:13software store that was blocks away and
0:14:16we bought this like D&D game and I took
0:14:18it home and didn't realize until I got
0:14:19home that was a pc only game and that
0:14:22was just crushing because i really
0:14:24wanted to play it out
0:14:25you won that round in that software
0:14:27store probably not there anymore
0:14:29thatthat's offer story is totally out of
0:14:30not a lot of Babbage's hanging around
0:14:33yeah that was it was an egghead software
0:14:35that oh interesting outright or just yes
0:14:39right there
0:14:39yeah i'm gonna County like head
0:14:40commander keen six there i worked at a
0:14:44software etc for a year and a half
0:14:46oh yeah yeah I'm sorry i was paying
0:14:48penance for something yeah but I had a
0:14:51buddy who worked at software etc in in
0:14:54the mall by my house and he would take
0:14:56games home and play them and shrink wrap
0:14:58there was company policy you take
0:15:01anything home and there was a
0:15:02shrink-wrap machine and was I ever
0:15:03envious of that is that considered you
0:15:05just a job education yeah you could do
0:15:08that in two
0:15:08so very recently a gamestop even I think
0:15:10they got in trouble like within the last
0:15:12two years
0:15:13yeah you're not supposed to sample your
0:15:14wares I thought I thought that wasn't
0:15:16like cardinal rule we talking about the
0:15:18we again didn't you play out like text
0:15:21adventures I remember because I was
0:15:22thinking my very one of my earliest
0:15:23memories was going over to a friend's
0:15:24house and playing some tax base das game
0:15:27that was basically a really it was text
0:15:30sort of adventure but it was clearly a
0:15:32star wars knock off like it was rescue a
0:15:36princess from this space station before
0:15:37the space station like blows up or
0:15:39something and you could get this they
0:15:42called it a vorpal blade in my coma
0:15:44lamashtu Jabberwocky i guess but it was
0:15:48basically a light saver but I have this
0:15:50very vivid memory of playing at a
0:15:52friend's house when I was probably in
0:15:53likes like first or second grade Vietnam
0:15:56and then there's course I played some
0:15:57Zork you know whenever I basically i
0:15:59remember hopping around like whenever my
0:16:00parents would take me to these sort of
0:16:02family friends house or some sort of
0:16:05distant cousins or something and they
0:16:08want to entertain me they stick me in
0:16:09the room with like the computer or
0:16:11whatever and I would figure out why
0:16:12whatever game was on there so I played
0:16:13like aphids orc that way and a few other
0:16:15things as well there was a golden period
0:16:17of text adventures they were they were
0:16:19all pretty lousy but they were coming
0:16:20out like three or four a day it seemed
0:16:22it was after infocomm had started and
0:16:24kind of bootstrap the industry and the
0:16:26interest in them but then like Scott
0:16:28Adams the scott adams text adventures
0:16:30there were 20 or 30 of them that came
0:16:33out and then the sierra on-line also did
0:16:35that the princess and the
0:16:37something-or-other they were they
0:16:40started within the present within the
0:16:41princess has introduced graphics the top
0:16:43of the screen that would that would take
0:16:44three or four seconds to draw graphics
0:16:46that they amusingly referred to as high
0:16:49resident yeah the Apple to in looking at
0:16:52black and white stick figures with
0:16:53knives spirit through them i had a head
0:16:56you freak me out with the info comping
0:16:57just because i have memories of being an
0:16:59engineer high school in the computer
0:17:01labs after school and we were trying to
0:17:02beat the Hitchhiker's Guide infocomm
0:17:04adventure and I was that was a tough one
0:17:07that's a hard game was the first games
0:17:09that lied to you yeah we got second part
0:17:11with the babble that's a cheap that's a
0:17:12cheap game oh yes that was I mean that
0:17:14was the thing where it we got stuck in
0:17:15the room of the babelfish and like you
0:17:17know you trust like five minutes
0:17:18into the game yeah and so you try the
0:17:20entire damn light put the towel over the
0:17:23great Florida Fish Hooks under the
0:17:24talent is out satchel in front of the
0:17:27robot thing and the mail on top of the
0:17:29satchel so it flies through the air and
0:17:30the airborne robot catches the mail and
0:17:32doesn't get the babelfish in their lands
0:17:34in your ear
0:17:34well I don't know that's the backlight
0:17:36earlier i'm sorry i often get the horn
0:17:39yeah we got all this have beaten that
0:17:40puzzle yeah but what part of you're
0:17:43killing her and what information could
0:17:44be in that part of your brain is taken
0:17:46up with memories of hitchhikers
0:17:48it's either that or abba lyrics i found
0:17:50that thing is a dedicated slot actually
0:17:52nothing else will fit their you spend
0:17:54long enough working at something you you
0:17:56you keep it
0:17:57they ported the secret of monkey island
0:17:59on which is one of my favorite games of
0:18:01all times like 1992 the the xbox 360 and
0:18:04i bought it was I felt a little indict
0:18:05about you know finding it again
0:18:07um but I think I've got further
0:18:09indignant when I replayed the entire
0:18:10game that took me I think like a summer
0:18:13as you know like a twelve-year-old I
0:18:16replayed in like two hours because I
0:18:18remembered the answer to every single
0:18:19possible not the puzzles were easy for
0:18:22an adult Tony to figure out like they
0:18:24were burned into my head well that's a
0:18:25testament to the really good games a lot
0:18:27of these adventures are big part of my
0:18:29life too because how just having a Mac
0:18:30didn't have lots of you know grants you
0:18:33a text adventure so I remember they had
0:18:34parts of Apple to stuff like
0:18:35Transylvania and the Crimson crown those
0:18:37are also apple two games but they were
0:18:38basically text adventures with a little
0:18:40graphic so you're sitting there typing
0:18:41you know your little commands and
0:18:42everything
0:18:43the uninvited Shadowgate and i remember
0:18:46those because again it was like at that
0:18:47age the solving one of those puzzles
0:18:50yourself just like alters your brain and
0:18:52interesting ways i still remember you
0:18:54know some of them are actually not like
0:18:56shadow gamestop had things are you drag
0:18:58some item on top of another item is part
0:19:00of the puzzle and it wasn't it wasn't
0:19:01just typing something that's that's that
0:19:05these games that the ones that you
0:19:06remind my plate hundreds of games i mean
0:19:08back back when I had my Atari 402 that
0:19:12instead of having a childhood I i play
0:19:16dozens and dozens and dozens of games
0:19:18and I remember a few of them but the
0:19:20ones that i remember i had have a
0:19:23greater place in my mind then like a lot
0:19:25of movies or books or or relatives or
0:19:29friends well there's something about the
0:19:31whole the the interactive nature of it i
0:19:33think because like like John saying with
0:19:35solving the puzzles you get you get
0:19:37engaged in a way you don't necessarily
0:19:38when you're a passive reader or a
0:19:40passive you know audience member
0:19:41watching a movie but like if you do
0:19:43something you know use some sort of
0:19:45procedural action than it really does
0:19:48stick with you i remember playing
0:19:49deadline for the first time I ordered it
0:19:51I bought it was $15 and I and it came
0:19:54and they used to come in in custom packs
0:19:56it was a dossier that was sealed shut
0:19:58with a no crime sticker and you open it
0:20:00up and there was no crime scene evidence
0:20:02and photos and it was just one had pills
0:20:05I really yes the pills the lien put into
0:20:08the the tea that killed mr. robin turner
0:20:11i'm at the game sounds awesome i kinda
0:20:13want to play that started a cave and
0:20:16it-it-it I I'm I mean it's what gosh 25
0:20:20years later and I did I still profoundly
0:20:22remember it i mean and and this survivor
0:20:25lets you know to segue a little bit into
0:20:27the the current state of gaming I'm very
0:20:29i find it very interesting how it seems
0:20:32like gaming today is both a a much
0:20:34larger world just in general mean it
0:20:36like we talked about earlier it's gotten
0:20:38much more mainstream and it encompasses
0:20:40all sorts of things from mobile gaming
0:20:41to console gaming to computer gaming to
0:20:43online you know web gaming that kind of
0:20:46stuff but in some ways the mainstream of
0:20:48it has become very almost wrote in the
0:20:50same way that that mainstream film has I
0:20:53think I mean you know you see a lot of
0:20:55titles that are very repetitive and they
0:20:57followed into a similar formula you know
0:20:59a first-person shooter a strategy game
0:21:01on RPG that kind of thing and it seems
0:21:04like there's not a lot of innovation
0:21:06there so I mean the big development
0:21:07houses keep rehashing the same
0:21:09properties which is very similar to what
0:21:11happens in Hollywood right now
0:21:12well the budgets have gotten so big that
0:21:14they are Hollywood movies they have
0:21:15launches and if you don't make it in the
0:21:17first couple weeks you're dead and you
0:21:18may have invested fifty million dollars
0:21:20and and you know 300 man years in
0:21:23developing this thing and so you're not
0:21:25going to take a risk and but every once
0:21:27in a while you get one of those indie
0:21:29hits right yeah you get something like
0:21:30minecraft which is the game a lot of
0:21:32people been talking about recently
0:21:33that's just you know some guy made this
0:21:35game right because it was zero risk
0:21:37right most of the big studios do it to
0:21:40like valve that portal right and it's
0:21:41just lonely
0:21:42in reality no students to Paul a while
0:21:44he acquired them it's the same things
0:21:46like Miramax you know like the big
0:21:47studios find someone with with a good
0:21:49idea and give them a little bit of money
0:21:50and maybe it's a hit and it happens in
0:21:52movies 2 is just you know like to look
0:21:54at clerks for example that's an example
0:21:56of an indie hit that you know I went on
0:21:59to let the person go on to greater
0:22:01things or maybe lesser things many
0:22:02haven't really had that happen for
0:22:04another that's for another podcast yeah
0:22:06but there's lots of you know Hollywood
0:22:09does exactly the same thing stances that
0:22:11that whole system exists adjusted in
0:22:13gaming it seems like people are more
0:22:16reliably able to make money off the
0:22:18generic stuff and so like like woman
0:22:22generic hollywood movies flop flop a lot
0:22:25more often than generic first-person
0:22:26shooters do i feel like because if you
0:22:27make high-quality triple a first-person
0:22:29shooter game for the xbox with a good
0:22:32license with intellectual property
0:22:33you'll make your money back it's like a
0:22:35solid earner you don't have one of those
0:22:37very rarely do you have one of those 50
0:22:38million dollar games come out and
0:22:39totally flopped but you can have a
0:22:41hundred-million-dollar movie like Ishtar
0:22:42come out and make like nothing now so I
0:22:45think they're they're sticking to the
0:22:47formula more just because their success
0:22:49rate is higher than the Hollywood guys
0:22:50are want to stick to the formula that's
0:22:52one reason i'm excited about like the
0:22:54smaller mobile games like on the iphone
0:22:57is they aren't as big a risk and they
0:22:58can really experiment with gameplay
0:23:00there's a lot of really weird stuff on
0:23:02the iphone that's fun and doesn't
0:23:05require a 60 or 80 our investment or
0:23:07sixty or eighty dollar investment and
0:23:09and the expectation from the the gamer
0:23:11is for the quality of graphics the
0:23:14length of the game are a lot more
0:23:16reasonable for one person or a small
0:23:17group of people can actually construct
0:23:19it's kind of a different audience to
0:23:21because we touch interface it makes
0:23:22people not be like member when people
0:23:24tried to make Lego Space Invaders your
0:23:26iphone and you know Gallagher if you're
0:23:27gonna kind of works but it's like that's
0:23:29not you know all the conventional games
0:23:32of the gaming developers have been
0:23:33making for you know decades you can make
0:23:35those for the iphone you can but their
0:23:37crap you have to you have to think of
0:23:38something know which is interesting
0:23:40because it's one of the examples of how
0:23:41technology I think you know a lot of the
0:23:44technology has in some ways exactly stay
0:23:46the same but its progress along logical
0:23:48lines right we've gone to higher and
0:23:49higher
0:23:50resolution displays you know we've gone
0:23:52to to better physics engines that kind
0:23:55of stuff but i think you know the the
0:23:56interactive part of it with the
0:23:58touchscreen both on the the iphone and
0:24:00you know the other smartphones as well
0:24:02as things like the nintendo dsi the dsi
0:24:05was that was really interesting as a
0:24:06platform just because it clearly was
0:24:09nintendo trying to you know a whole
0:24:11bunch of really different technologies
0:24:13because they did their games that
0:24:14involve touch their games involve
0:24:15microphone you know they really played
0:24:18with with all the conventions that we
0:24:20had become established you that's what
0:24:22we did to was introduced new interface
0:24:24conventions and the kinect was always
0:24:26been willing to do crazy remember
0:24:28virtual boy didn't work out for them but
0:24:31it but they've always been willing to
0:24:32say I'm i'll stick a camera on there put
0:24:34on goggles in order before the thing you
0:24:36strap on your arm or you know I mean
0:24:38sometimes they work sometimes it don't
0:24:40they're kind of people are kind of
0:24:41dismissive at least hardcore gamers are
0:24:42dismissive of casual gaming but it every
0:24:45time I try and play hardcore gamers game
0:24:47i get my ass handed to me because I
0:24:49haven't invested a significant portion
0:24:51of my life just becoming competent now
0:24:54you're a casual gamer well it's it's a
0:24:56whole different game that sunday jewel I
0:24:58always realize that whenever i play you
0:25:00know we'll all play a you know shooters
0:25:02of my friends online or whatever and
0:25:03every once in a while will venture out
0:25:05into the wilds of the internet and
0:25:06totally get get ripped just because I if
0:25:10we don't know i mean there's a whole
0:25:11nother level of game there that we
0:25:12weren't even aware of and i find that
0:25:14exhilarating still though because I
0:25:16still I still like you're not getting
0:25:18your ass handed to you because I can't
0:25:20reach it I think she's feeling is not
0:25:21like I feel like I'm still a contender a
0:25:24little bit like you notice i like for
0:25:26example when I'm real tournament 2004
0:25:27came out like I I didn't have time to
0:25:29play games lot of whatever but I had
0:25:30first person shooter skills kind of
0:25:32honed by in like quick an hour back in
0:25:34those days in a little bit of doom right
0:25:36so i play unreal tournament 2004 during
0:25:39my lunch break with my co-workers right
0:25:40and then we'd go online and play people
0:25:42and we weren't the best but we weren't
0:25:44the worst week we could hang in there
0:25:45with the crazy 12 year olds playing
0:25:47constantly and there's something
0:25:48exhilarating about that level of sort of
0:25:50Darwinian survival of the fittest like
0:25:52there's no hand-holding there's no
0:25:53coddling it that you can play with them
0:25:54are you can't and if you can't it's no I
0:25:57think that's why even you can't it's no
0:25:59fun but it's like it's like playing like
0:26:00a sport you know
0:26:02yeah like you're just like what
0:26:03that ball with Shaquille O'Neal or
0:26:05something what would not even because
0:26:06it's other its other just other people
0:26:08just like you but there's no there's no
0:26:10hand-holding you're coddling there's no
0:26:11like Oh everyone gets a trophy which you
0:26:13see a lot of in many aspects of life
0:26:15gaming you know what I want to transmit
0:26:17dammit right where you know all we just
0:26:20were just here to have fun and we're
0:26:21both know this is cutthroat competition
0:26:22and I really love that corner is still
0:26:25there and that occasionally i can i can
0:26:27i can be on the same field with them and
0:26:29not not feel like i can guarantee that
0:26:31it not only real not get a trophy you
0:26:33will probably get many other unpleasant
0:26:34things done to you can always want you
0:26:37and Congressman working avidly at
0:26:39finding some way to level the playing
0:26:40field for all video game players but
0:26:43plus as someone with a son I really feel
0:26:46like I have to keep up these skills
0:26:47because it's my job to for as long as I
0:26:49possibly can dominate him and all gaming
0:26:51actually said was right until the coming
0:26:55of age when he finally beats his father
0:26:57you want that to be an experience you
0:26:58wanted to be like always for now you can
0:27:00be just that i don't know i still have
0:27:02my dad's chest and I'm 30
0:27:04well you know that's a different kind of
0:27:06game but I can i use the only game i
0:27:08think i ever convince my dad to play
0:27:10with me was our c program on the
0:27:11original nintendo and I definitely
0:27:13rocked him on that because you have no
0:27:15idea what's going on do you think that's
0:27:17a different thing with this generation
0:27:18in the are in general our children are
0:27:21doing things that we enjoyed his
0:27:22children whereas i was not doing things
0:27:24to my father enjoyed but just because
0:27:25there was not like no technology was
0:27:27like rollerskating rolling a hoop
0:27:28wherever the hell he was doing his
0:27:31girlfriend riding a bicycle with a big
0:27:33front wheel in a tiny backwards so you
0:27:35know but I'm but my son is watching Star
0:27:37Wars movies my son is playing through
0:27:39you know when Waker now game that I
0:27:41played When I was you know in my
0:27:42twenties you don't say it's kinda weird
0:27:44to be raising kids in an age where they
0:27:47actually do things that their parents
0:27:48did and god I hope I want to don't have
0:27:51your back into the motion controls
0:27:52question because I think that the the
0:27:54casual gaming is an interesting field in
0:27:57that there's I mean of course nintendo
0:27:59came out with the we like two thousand
0:28:01six or so and you know there was kind of
0:28:04a lot of derision from especially the
0:28:06hardcore gamers as we were saying but
0:28:07now intend over China
0:28:09I mean the name didn't help that i love
0:28:12sure but i think and now everything all
0:28:16the other major console people are are
0:28:17copying them right i mean sony came out
0:28:19with a motion-sensitive controller and
0:28:20now Microsoft sort of up the ante with
0:28:22the kinect can argue with a barrel full
0:28:25of cash yeah if they sold a billion of
0:28:27them that there was a great cover to
0:28:29edge magazine that had a golden Nintendo
0:28:31Wiimote on it said who dares wins which
0:28:33is basically nintendo was the one who
0:28:35dared because they were in last place in
0:28:361000 was at the added the least to lose
0:28:38and so they they did the move that the
0:28:40movie with the most guts and it paid off
0:28:42for them
0:28:43well we was a genius idea really for
0:28:45them i mean that they realized they
0:28:47couldn't compete on a purely
0:28:48technological level with sony and and
0:28:50and microsoft and and they really didn't
0:28:53even want to try because those two
0:28:54systems are so similar
0:28:56you know just these high-powered
0:28:58graphics pushers and I would compete
0:29:00with that with the graphics with the
0:29:02game in a gamecube generation the
0:29:03gamecube was held its own with with you
0:29:06know I was in between us to the xbox and
0:29:08ps3 controller but we got the righted
0:29:10for basically being too GameCubes
0:29:11duct-taped together
0:29:13well I mean it wasn't it was just one
0:29:14game cube but the thing is they they
0:29:16lost in the market they couldn't sell
0:29:17games they weren't making money they
0:29:19were in last place money-wise not
0:29:20technology-wise like you know because
0:29:22they don't make me have the same guys
0:29:23make their chips you know in that
0:29:25generation IBM made all the cpu this
0:29:27point is not that they they could not
0:29:28have competed on the technological
0:29:29friend obviously could read a bunch of
0:29:31graphics chips into a box and attempted
0:29:33to compete but i think they saw that the
0:29:35market was glutted with with the with
0:29:38pixel pushing monsters like the xbox and
0:29:40the the ps3 and they've always kind of
0:29:43leaned towards this approach that
0:29:45differs from from what Sony and
0:29:47Microsoft which is it Sony Microsoft
0:29:48will take a loss on the hardware upfront
0:29:50and make all their money on the
0:29:52licensing the games on the back end
0:29:54whereas Nintendo's on opening you know
0:29:57this this this wide-open casual market
0:29:59that was starting to burgeon and decided
0:30:02you know rather than try and produce a
0:30:05third more of the same kind of gaming
0:30:07console let's try something else we
0:30:08won't bother trying to
0:30:10overcome the others with our graphics
0:30:12and and will actually make a profit on
0:30:15the console before we even get around to
0:30:17taking our our skin off of the games
0:30:20well then intent always made a profit on
0:30:22their hardware if they could they also
0:30:24made a profit on the games that then
0:30:26they were the king for a while but it
0:30:27took two generations of them coming in
0:30:29last in terms of sales that they
0:30:31nintendo 64 there in last place gamecube
0:30:34there in last place and you know it's
0:30:36not for let's look at the hardware the
0:30:37game two harbors quality harbor they
0:30:39just they were just losing and it took a
0:30:40little head nod third-party lesson that
0:30:42you know yeah bring it down to third
0:30:44parties because they added couldn't
0:30:46attract other other developers onto
0:30:49their consoles and and meanwhile sony
0:30:50and microsoft we're locking up by you
0:30:53know buying rare and Squaresoft and all
0:30:56the other big third-party developers
0:30:58while Nintendo's appeal has always been
0:31:00all your much of Nintendo's bill has
0:31:02always been there
0:31:02the first party titles right the
0:31:04franchise's like zelda and mario right
0:31:06now because they made all the money on
0:31:08those right like they controlled
0:31:09everything remember they used to charge
0:31:11third parties to make the content
0:31:13cartridges for yeah they had those seals
0:31:15on the right right is that you your
0:31:17third-party you had to give some huge
0:31:18amount of your money to nintendo and you
0:31:20also to pay them to build your
0:31:21cartridges they made a profit and
0:31:22everything like they wanted that sounds
0:31:24like another company i could name but
0:31:25yeah they are very natural like in that
0:31:27regard on the kind of had the same fall
0:31:29where it's like well you know that
0:31:31business used to be a winner but now now
0:31:33that style of business is a loser
0:31:34because no one wants to work with you
0:31:35they want to work rise competitors so
0:31:37they don't you just come when all they
0:31:39had was their first party titles and
0:31:40that was it i mean by the time the
0:31:42gamecube came out you you either bought
0:31:43nintendo first parties or you went and
0:31:46played your friends xbox it sounds like
0:31:49a decade there of them trying and losing
0:31:51so it's not quite as Noble as it might
0:31:52seem a retrospective like Oh nintendo
0:31:54had a better idea nintendo was screwed
0:31:56right name that you know and that
0:31:58because they had so little to lose and
0:31:59they were backed into a corner
0:32:01they said all right forget they
0:32:02basically bet the company on the week is
0:32:03that was about the company move that got
0:32:05a new CEO is that I'm going to do this
0:32:07crazy thing everyone thought was crazy
0:32:09you know the before you know that you
0:32:11want to introduce the week at the like
0:32:12you're doing what with the what now it's
0:32:14a remote-control you are so dead they
0:32:16weren't that you know they never gonna
0:32:19live this raises increase interesting
0:32:21question to me though which is now that
0:32:23sony and microsoft have both made their
0:32:24own moves into the same sort of realm is
0:32:28there room for all of these different
0:32:30companies to survive because I mean I i
0:32:32know people who have we a we and I just
0:32:34I feel like I don't hear about
0:32:36constantly compelling titles coming out
0:32:38for the content for the console and I
0:32:40think unfortunately the we suckers now
0:32:4330 minutes it's kind of like back where
0:32:44the PlayStation and Xbox where the way
0:32:47is a popular platform that there's a
0:32:49glut of junks Oscar for it
0:32:51people call it we shuffle where they're
0:32:54always was
0:32:54there's so many people developing for
0:32:56the wii and in some ways it's you know
0:32:58the graphic standards are lower the way
0:32:59there's just there's a ton of garbage
0:33:00out now but we has the interesting
0:33:03problem is sort of like the nintendo 64
0:33:05on gamecube problem where it's like well
0:33:07the first party titles are great but the
0:33:08third party ones are not great and
0:33:10before I was third party ones around
0:33:12great just because they didn't have the
0:33:13games but now they have you know
0:33:14shovelware they just have the bad ports
0:33:17and it's still it's kind of must be from
0:33:18different vendors say we we sold the
0:33:21most consoles we have the huge installed
0:33:22base we crushed our competitors and we
0:33:24still have only great first-party titles
0:33:26and not great third-party titles
0:33:28well it's interesting too because this
0:33:30is this is very similar to what happened
0:33:32back in 1986 or 88 are 87 or so when
0:33:36that when they have the big video game
0:33:38crash I mean there were there were
0:33:40boatloads of third-party titles coming
0:33:42out from every way for the nintendo and
0:33:44karina chase the chuck wagon that was an
0:33:48atari 2600 title that was the previous
0:33:50crash and it kind of makes me wonder if
0:33:52we're not about to see something similar
0:33:54i mean i-i think we have the outlet of
0:33:56mobile to prevent that crash because I
0:33:58think you're just people shift the
0:33:59dollars because the explosion of mobile
0:34:01gaming shows it's not just gonna like go
0:34:03away go like gaming gaming is now is now
0:34:06too-big-to-fail basically like it's too
0:34:08diverse you can't kill it is too big to
0:34:09fail as a bad analogy it's more like I
0:34:11can make her like you can you can chop
0:34:12off all the combos and make every
0:34:14console makers fail right but it doesn't
0:34:16matter because game has got its claws
0:34:17into everything you can never get rid of
0:34:19it maybe like Blackmore we gonna sexy
0:34:21you keep taking showers on your mind
0:34:24your mind again now there's a real black
0:34:25mold is going on you know are we gonna
0:34:29start to see a government meeting with a
0:34:30video game sometimes that's what may be
0:34:33a doormat bailout video game I would bet
0:34:34that that is it just because I did you
0:34:37say that giving is like a black hole
0:34:39like guacamole it was a little looking
0:34:41all over thinking of you know what gets
0:34:43into your house and you just can't get
0:34:44it out it's going to burn the house and
0:34:46I really any point is that you killed
0:34:48all the consoles like gaming would still
0:34:50be alive if it's not going to be like
0:34:51wasn't cocky ladies you know the podcast
0:34:56of misplaced analogies I think we'll
0:34:58concentrate III yeah i know i think that
0:35:02the the we is is definitely going to see
0:35:05a lot of challenge from microsoft and
0:35:07sony but i don't i don't know are people
0:35:09really that desirous of like you know
0:35:12standing around protecting their arms is
0:35:14that is that something that appeals to
0:35:15people with us keep buying them they
0:35:17sure as hell bought a lot of them right
0:35:19at me
0:35:19dan I don't know about you but I'm
0:35:20flapping my arms of right now and it's
0:35:24not tonight right
0:35:25I mean I'm not gonna sales time like I
0:35:28can tell you that was like you know the
0:35:30third johnny-come-lately the third one
0:35:32the last guy to get emotional and they
0:35:33still sold a billion of money you know
0:35:35it was like a million and a half of the
0:35:37first month like that selling electronic
0:35:38scheduled ever
0:35:39yeah I don't know they sold a lot and I
0:35:41wonder part of that is I mean they sort
0:35:43of took it to the next level right both
0:35:44with Sony 101 require the you know your
0:35:47controllers that you're moving around
0:35:48and Microsoft like screw that we're
0:35:50going to go straight to just you know
0:35:51you know it's just you you are the
0:35:53controller and so I mean I i don't know
0:35:55i have not like I said I'm played one I
0:35:57know nothing about you know its merits
0:35:59or what have you but that seems like
0:36:01another pretty it seems like they're
0:36:03trying to take it to the next level
0:36:04trying to one-up them right well I can
0:36:06tell you that they're their marketing
0:36:07work gangbusters because my
0:36:08four-year-old before we bought the thing
0:36:10was walking around the house for days
0:36:11saying with kinectimals you are the
0:36:13controller that is kind of kind of
0:36:17terrifying action was very distressing
0:36:19for me personally and get you went out
0:36:21and got one anyways I was amped he was
0:36:23and what what is it about that appeals
0:36:26to you i mean i'm curious is it just you
0:36:28know I think after whatever spend 30 odd
0:36:31years of gaming I i'm interested in
0:36:33giving the new stuff
0:36:34try whenever it comes out because i
0:36:36think i've i've pretty much reached the
0:36:38point where i'm jaded on standard gaming
0:36:39and it doesn't really hold as much
0:36:41interest for me as it once did
0:36:43so tell us about kinectimals well the
0:36:46the first of all the connect itself
0:36:48actually works surprisingly well I i
0:36:51waited for the free or the initial
0:36:52reviews to come in before I went out and
0:36:54got one and they were I guess sort of
0:36:57mediocre to positive so I wasn't
0:37:00expecting much when I look the thing up
0:37:01but I was shocked at how well it
0:37:04actually tracks you I mean it does have
0:37:05its issues you know freaks out
0:37:07occasionally when you move your hands in
0:37:10front of your chest and it loses track
0:37:11of where your extremities are which we
0:37:14usually results in some pretty hilarious
0:37:15results on the screen when you watch
0:37:17your on-screen avatars like hand
0:37:19snapping it's very unusual ways and but
0:37:24by and large the technology works a lot
0:37:26better than i was expecting it to Bob
0:37:28it's not really one to one that they I
0:37:31guess microsoft opted not to put any
0:37:33kind of processing power within the
0:37:34device itself so it's up to the 360 to
0:37:38actually do all the processing which
0:37:39does result in some lag but it's it's
0:37:42very similar to the wii I where you know
0:37:44the wii remotes really the phi delta T
0:37:46on the things ridiculous just horrible
0:37:49and a couple of good developers nintendo
0:37:54most notably with wii sports just
0:37:56figured out ways to work around the fact
0:37:57that the things really had no idea where
0:37:59they were in space and they later they
0:38:01later updated the base of the whole new
0:38:03add-on that supposed to bring yeah that
0:38:05one that's built-in now actually and
0:38:07that does work a hell of a lot about
0:38:09that the ad on the motionplus add-on
0:38:11which is now built into the wiimotes
0:38:12that you buy that's the way everyone
0:38:14thought it worked when they first bought
0:38:16the way it is much better yet but they
0:38:19get he did the first round i mean the
0:38:22the only way that they really sold the
0:38:25system was by making wii sports smart
0:38:27enough to not really care with the
0:38:28control that's well that's part of the
0:38:31brilliance of game design I think
0:38:32because people just want to have fun
0:38:33right and if they don't realize that in
0:38:35order to win at this you know bowling
0:38:37game you just needed to flicking your
0:38:39thing in a certain way because it's
0:38:40really just a tilt sensor if they don't
0:38:42know that and they go through the whole
0:38:43big motion they turn the game so that
0:38:45going through a full fledge bowling
0:38:46motion
0:38:47adults in the correct series of inputs
0:38:49to win the game and it's it's easier for
0:38:51people to say i'm just going to do my
0:38:52bowling motion and then just sit there
0:38:53like a gamer and figure out how do i
0:38:55have to manipulate these accelerometers
0:38:56to win the game right so people just did
0:38:59the footballing motion and I think that
0:39:00that's just good game design that's
0:39:01working within limitations to make a
0:39:03game that people find fun you know I see
0:39:05that is an interesting parallel to
0:39:06something like rock band which is a game
0:39:08that you know I played a lot of in the
0:39:10last few years in that there I
0:39:11definitely know people who are entirely
0:39:13focused on playing it to you know like
0:39:16perfection and so they'll sit on the
0:39:19couch and will be very intent like
0:39:20they're all just sort of like pressing
0:39:21all the buttons you know the there you
0:39:22can see them sort of deep in thought
0:39:24about it as opposed to the people who
0:39:25will play it by being like you know hey
0:39:27let's see where we're rockstars you know
0:39:29let's just stand around and and sing in
0:39:32and you know play like we're actually in
0:39:34a band and maybe that's just different
0:39:36approaches to gaming but it is kind of
0:39:38an interesting disparity that's always
0:39:39intrigued me
0:39:40I wonder how long the kinect is going to
0:39:42last I mean I realize it's interesting
0:39:44to technology and people are doing a lot
0:39:45of cool stuff with it just outside of
0:39:47gaming but we only got the wii we played
0:39:51you know all the wii sports and all the
0:39:53swing your arms around stuff and we got
0:39:54the little thing that sits on the floor
0:39:56that you can step on and it's just kind
0:39:59of sat in the corner after the first
0:40:00couple of months just because it's
0:40:03annoying to get up off the sofa that's
0:40:06that's a lot of air that is on the
0:40:09reason i like that and I mean I
0:40:12understand how getting up and swing your
0:40:13arms around and you know the the we
0:40:16exercise stuff you can work up a sweat
0:40:17but that's not what I do when I'm in
0:40:20front of the TV or ever
0:40:22I think all these different input things
0:40:24we have here like you know we've got
0:40:26motion sensors we've got the gyroscopes
0:40:28and got cameras who you know all these
0:40:30two different things
0:40:31these are converging on like it's kind
0:40:33of like when we had no telephones were
0:40:35just phones and I had cameras in them
0:40:36and then they you know had GPS in them
0:40:38is like these different forms the input
0:40:40well sort of you know be refined and
0:40:42converge to the point where it will be
0:40:44taken for granted two generations from
0:40:45now that all these sensors exist in your
0:40:47living room you've got multiple cameras
0:40:48multiple microphones you know and you
0:40:51can do a lot of interesting things with
0:40:52what you're saying is you're living room
0:40:54will be a hollow deck that's gonna take
0:40:56a while but I'm just like the people are
0:40:59going to be debating how do we really
0:41:00need
0:41:01motion controlled you really need a
0:41:02camera pointing at me it's like well duh
0:41:03you know every phone has a camera world
0:41:05of course my living room has 12 camera
0:41:07so we can get me and you know
0:41:08quadraphonic stereo scar you don't want
0:41:10to use them but yeah they're going to be
0:41:12used for everything can be used for
0:41:13turning on the TV for changing channels
0:41:16for you know selecting for menus and yet
0:41:18for playing games because why wouldn't
0:41:19you use them for games not exclusively
0:41:21for games not big not controllers
0:41:22disappear but it's just one more thing
0:41:24to add right yeah but i just i get i
0:41:26don't find my kids when they play the
0:41:27wii now they sit on the sofa they turn
0:41:29the controller sideways and they play
0:41:30super battle you know Twitter at while
0:41:34traditional games have a lot of mr. of
0:41:36you know that the traditional games will
0:41:38always be there but i think if you if
0:41:39you had a traditional game that had for
0:41:41example people tracking right you could
0:41:43be holding a controller but looking on
0:41:45the screen to do stuff with you know it
0:41:46to do different things look with your
0:41:48eyes change viewpoint or you know a matt
0:41:50targeting thing and that's where the
0:41:52connected really gets gets interesting
0:41:54is because you know you have really your
0:41:56first true sort of semi holodeck
0:41:59experience when you set up what they
0:42:02call your connect ID you've had sex with
0:42:03it
0:42:04were you in shakespearean times there
0:42:06was a the forties going on holiday I
0:42:10could take my understanding is every
0:42:13time they go into the hundred something
0:42:14bad happens
0:42:15yeah it's all resolved in the end
0:42:18whatever it was that all your games like
0:42:20the other connect all your games will
0:42:22take 40 minutes and there will be nicely
0:42:24wrapped up with the if I went and if i
0:42:26had my own holiday the thing would
0:42:28constantly be shorting out just from
0:42:30fluids flowing fluid and we all do we
0:42:34all agree that if if the whole day
0:42:36actually existed it would end humanity
0:42:37within like easily LOL starcraft can
0:42:41kill half of Korea that a holodeck will
0:42:42kill the world
0:42:43yeah we'd all be dead in the holodeck
0:42:45ins starve to death i'm assuming inside
0:42:47the whole back within a year and a half
0:42:49all humanity the top that's a big
0:42:51holiday if individually we can all be
0:42:54the same holiday goodbye
0:42:56so any high you he gets a compelling
0:43:02future gaming but was this podcast about
0:43:06the greenbags your damage i want to hear
0:43:08about the kinect let's go
0:43:10so yeah you can set up this thing called
0:43:12you connect ID which is associated with
0:43:14your avatar and which which basically
0:43:16represents your saved games for for the
0:43:18xbox and it involves you moving around
0:43:23various places in your living room and
0:43:24turn your head slightly and it takes
0:43:26various sort of pictures of your face
0:43:29subsequent to that you walk into the
0:43:31black my daughter was playing
0:43:33kinectimals the other day and I happened
0:43:35to walk past her on my way to the couch
0:43:36and a little thing popped up saying mr.
0:43:39Baum biscuit has signed in
0:43:42that's nice serving for an audience of
0:43:44reasons it's so heavy it is a little
0:43:47freakish in in a lot of respect but so
0:43:50it's that's that was an interesting
0:43:51experience and I think it's part of the
0:43:53excitement with the connectors is I
0:43:55think people kind of see that we're
0:44:00really sort of on the edge of of what
0:44:01may end up being holodeck technology
0:44:03someday in the future
0:44:05well I mean that is there is some really
0:44:07interesting stuff going on with all the
0:44:09facial detection I know when they first
0:44:10showed off the kinect they had that
0:44:11whole creepy peter molyneux oh is it out
0:44:15yeah a little i can roll with the name
0:44:17is Milo Milo right with the little boy
0:44:19who lives inside the Xbox ones that will
0:44:22have to desperately to be his friend you
0:44:24know I understand the economic reasons
0:44:25but isn't it weird that all this kind of
0:44:27a facial detection and and body tracking
0:44:30and is is being developed for games now
0:44:33it's being developed for defense as well
0:44:35but games always one of those things
0:44:37that push the envelope I mean when you
0:44:38look at any you know like computers
0:44:41during the nineties what I have what
0:44:42have you or a games are the things that
0:44:44push the processor is faster and the
0:44:46graphics cards better and all that right
0:44:48because they're always the most
0:44:49demanding thing on the system and there
0:44:51were no sound cards for pcs Intel gaming
0:44:54pushed well things like facial
0:44:56recognition or 3d graphics cards or
0:44:58memory organization now body tracks like
0:45:01facial recognition they had four years
0:45:02for you know FBI databases and stuff and
0:45:04it takes awhile for the technology to
0:45:05scale down to be on consoles and things
0:45:08like a gait analysis and other body
0:45:10tracking that was a little bit from
0:45:11Hollywood you know with motion-control
0:45:13and special effects but you need to know
0:45:14big rigs lots of computers and
0:45:16eventually becomes practical to do that
0:45:17with smaller computer so in this respect
0:45:19I think
0:45:19gaming is getting the hand-me-downs
0:45:21unlike graphics were gaming was pushing
0:45:23the envelope this in this area game is
0:45:25getting the hand-me-downs of other
0:45:27industries who did this
0:45:28more expensively on government contracts
0:45:30with big hardware and now we can do it
0:45:32you know on our phones are on anyone
0:45:34with the kinect comes with a blue
0:45:35bodysuit with ping-pong balls glue all
0:45:37over that's the playstation move is the
0:45:39move gives you a stick with a ping-pong
0:45:40ball on a thread and I like that about
0:45:43the move because that's proven
0:45:44technology like ball-and-stick works now
0:45:48we're getting back to the kind of games
0:45:49that your dad used to play answer is
0:45:52that one the ball you have to catch it
0:45:53on the stick on the move is already
0:45:54there it's stuck there but you've
0:45:56already watched there's no challenge
0:45:57involved in that
0:45:59where's the honor well makes me wonder
0:46:00what other technologies are going to
0:46:02trickle down a well we all be flying
0:46:03Predator drones around in my playing
0:46:05games with the who's in like two years
0:46:07oh man really was gonna be great so
0:46:08messy well if it connects proven
0:46:11anything it's that the technology has a
0:46:13long way to go i mean you do i will say
0:46:15it works about as well as the we did on
0:46:18launch in terms of its ability to track
0:46:21you and it is very very cool you know
0:46:24when it's implemented properly in the
0:46:25games like I think that the standout
0:46:28title for the connected launch was was I
0:46:31think somebody mentioned dance central
0:46:32which is amazingly fun if you don't mind
0:46:36flailing about ridiculously in your
0:46:37living room for you know the
0:46:39embarrassment the embarrassment factor
0:46:41for the entertainment of your friends
0:46:43and neighbors and that's an example of
0:46:45using the Kinect technology on the low
0:46:48end like this that connects can do tons
0:46:49of stuff but all dance central is doing
0:46:51his edge detection and catching your
0:46:52silhouette so let's don't like the way
0:46:54of the way you well know that could
0:46:56connect can also do depth in to see how
0:46:58far you know it can do it
0:46:59it was a depth map of like how far your
0:47:01hands are in front of your behind you
0:47:02but the but the dance central
0:47:04specifically issues all the connects
0:47:07technology except for edge detection
0:47:08which is really simple you know image
0:47:10algorithms that's what makes it
0:47:11responsive and that's what makes it you
0:47:13know sort of more reliable than we're
0:47:14trying to track your limbs in 3d space
0:47:16when they're also not expecting an
0:47:19immediate real-time response to your
0:47:22movements
0:47:22I mean it's it it's set up in such a way
0:47:25that you're not actually looking at an
0:47:26image of yourself on the screen you're
0:47:27looking at right haven't screwed answer
0:47:29and and as you're moving around you know
0:47:32it has time to x
0:47:33we figure out what it is that you're
0:47:34doing before it has to put it up on the
0:47:35screen that you've screwed up your right
0:47:37leg or whatever
0:47:38probably the biggest downside of the
0:47:40kinect is the fact that it takes such a
0:47:43huge amount of space in order for you
0:47:45actually play the games mean if you live
0:47:47in a small concert hall you're in good
0:47:48shape but I can't really foresee it
0:47:51selling well in Japan or anywhere else
0:47:53where people live in these little shoe
0:47:54boxes is that I mean you have to move
0:47:56the coffee table
0:47:58the couch no you're the retaining wall
0:48:01of your house and only then do you have
0:48:04enough room that you're not you're
0:48:05standing on your son on the couch so you
0:48:08know it does have its problems but
0:48:09definitely an interesting tech and and
0:48:12the games are surprisingly fun for which
0:48:14is which is more than i was expecting to
0:48:16be honest I like to put a plug in as
0:48:19long as we're you know talking about
0:48:20these innovative technologies there are
0:48:22some really good even among those
0:48:24triple-a titles that are that are
0:48:25somewhat derivative I find every once in
0:48:27a while they're there are a couple that
0:48:30they do really interesting and new
0:48:31things and this week I've been playing
0:48:33just started playing this new game
0:48:35assassin's creed brotherhood which I
0:48:37have not played a single bit of the
0:48:39single player for but the the
0:48:40multiplayer is fascinating and I think
0:48:43it was most simply described by one of
0:48:46the guys at penny arcade as you ever
0:48:48play the game assassins when you're in
0:48:50high school which is basically had a
0:48:52group of friends and you know you
0:48:54basically the game involved every person
0:48:56got like a target among the group around
0:48:58and you had you got like a plastic spoon
0:49:00or something you had to like go up and
0:49:02like stab them with the spoon and dinner
0:49:04and then you collect on their target you
0:49:05would inherit sort of whoever they were
0:49:08supposed to kill well
0:49:09Assassin's Creed it kind of has a
0:49:11multiplayer that that sort of like this
0:49:12and it's it's a fascinating twists on a
0:49:15lot of the typical first-person shooters
0:49:17because unlike those which really rely
0:49:19on twitch gaming and and reflexes and
0:49:23that kind of stuff
0:49:24Assassin's Creed kind of makes you fight
0:49:26all those instincts basically you're
0:49:29dropped into a map with that is
0:49:32populated entirely with a finite number
0:49:34of character models say H or something
0:49:37so everybody on the map and there's a
0:49:40decent number of people on the map looks
0:49:41like one of these eight characters
0:49:43there's multiple versions of all of them
0:49:44and so each player is all
0:49:47so one of those characters in your
0:49:48you're told to assassinate you know one
0:49:50of the other characters but they look
0:49:52like any number of people on the map so
0:49:54somehow you have to figure out you're
0:49:56talking about high-tech stratego here it
0:49:58sounds like it's very asker's day
0:50:00because you have to walk around sort of
0:50:02slowly and blend in the strategy is to
0:50:04play like an artificial intelligence and
0:50:06and that's it's very very strange but
0:50:09it's really effective because you'll be
0:50:11walking through this crowd you're trying
0:50:12you don't want to run or anything that
0:50:14will draw attention to you and someone
0:50:16will brush value and you'll you'll have
0:50:18that split second where you're like me
0:50:19something about that guy was not quite
0:50:21right and then they just stab you in the
0:50:22back I like it as a candidate it's you
0:50:27know there have been a stealth action
0:50:28games for a long time the previous
0:50:29Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell and
0:50:32feeds and things like that we're like in
0:50:33a very simple mechanic were like you
0:50:35know if you move slower you won't arouse
0:50:38the the attention of guards around you
0:50:40but I like this that now that it's not
0:50:41like you know you're moving too fast or
0:50:43not like red light green light but like
0:50:45you are moving in a way that will be
0:50:47preceded by a human has a regular or not
0:50:49it's a reverse Turing test
0:50:51yeah exactly it is a reverse reminded of
0:50:54the second episode of the walking dead
0:50:56have you any BS anything up on that
0:50:58that's a different podcast that we're
0:51:00saving that for the end this is the
0:51:02beauty of playing with other people
0:51:03though because that experience that you
0:51:05had their with dan with other people
0:51:07you couldn't have had nothing to do with
0:51:08the computers there's no no absolutely
0:51:10not
0:51:10this gate yeah it does not work without
0:51:12that and really it works best when you
0:51:14have a certain number of people
0:51:15otherwise it gets just too easy to
0:51:17figure out but it was it was a
0:51:19fascinating experience from coming from
0:51:20a lot of games where it's like the goal
0:51:22is you know you gotta run really fast
0:51:23you gotta shoot somebody a lot you know
0:51:25and then you gotta try to get away
0:51:27where is this one it's really about
0:51:29blending in and fighting those instincts
0:51:31to do anything that's going to get you
0:51:32there faster and in fact there are a lot
0:51:34of people you run into online who do
0:51:35take that approach of like I'm gonna run
0:51:37really fast and try to kill everybody
0:51:38and get killed you and you don't get
0:51:40rewarded for either they're gonna
0:51:42questions
0:51:43well i'm gonna i'm going to defend my
0:51:45the the traditional gaming and they do
0:51:47at the top levels traditional
0:51:49first-person gaming at you know where
0:51:51you think i was at which game you run
0:51:53really fast and shoot everybody you have
0:51:54to play that strategically if you try to
0:51:57play like run around should everybody
0:51:58you will not be able to
0:52:00with you know reasonably good players
0:52:02it's a strategic game in terms of
0:52:03territory and power up control and not
0:52:06just running into fights that you can't
0:52:08win that's what separates you know the
0:52:09the the top tier players from just 0
0:52:13units from the thirty-year-old great
0:52:15president but the 12 year olds learn
0:52:17this it's amazing like this you have to
0:52:19know the territory make you know sort of
0:52:21defending the turf that has the power
0:52:22ups and not engage in fights that you're
0:52:24going to lose it becomes like a senior
0:52:25sort of Sun Tzu art of war type of thing
0:52:27it looks crazy and twitchy and you do
0:52:29need the crazy fast reflexes which is
0:52:31why we still get our butts handed to us
0:52:32by 12 girls because their reflexes are
0:52:34just better than 30 year olds right but
0:52:36there is that other element lurking
0:52:39underneath all types of gameplay
0:52:40yeah I will second as somebody who's had
0:52:42you know been beaten by a number of
0:52:44twelve-year-olds is definitely it's
0:52:48there's there's a lot more to the game
0:52:50that like i was saying before the there
0:52:51you sometimes you suddenly figure out a
0:52:53certain point like whoa there's like a
0:52:55whole nother level like exponential have
0:52:57a lot of the game than what I am
0:52:58perceiving and I met and that has
0:53:00doesn't have much to do the reflexes as
0:53:02it does with you know understanding the
0:53:04strategy mechanics again what's the best
0:53:06way to play this and it even if it looks
0:53:07like just a random shooting spring it's
0:53:09not i used to play battlefield two and
0:53:12it was a great game it was the first
0:53:13massive multiplayer game i played and
0:53:15you could assemble into squads and there
0:53:17would be a squad leader who would
0:53:18determine your your strategic approach
0:53:21to a particular target and I loved on
0:53:23one night and join the squad and the
0:53:25squad leader was issuing the red radio
0:53:28silence des and so we're sneaking up on
0:53:30a particular target was spreading people
0:53:31out and assigning them their jobs
0:53:33according to the book character class
0:53:35they were playing and and so everybody
0:53:38was in position and waited and waited
0:53:39and finally came time to go
0:53:41and this this 11 year old voices ok
0:53:43everybody him i have had that experience
0:53:47as well especially after in the old we
0:53:49used to play halo before xbox microsoft
0:53:51came up with this party system which
0:53:53meant you didn't have to talk to
0:53:54strangers on the internet you would have
0:53:55a brief second at the end of a halo
0:53:57match like maybe about 10 or 20 seconds
0:53:59where people with the real and they were
0:54:01just school is always liked the year old
0:54:03kids the most racist homophobic angriest
0:54:0712 your kids class
0:54:08rap music that you've ever heard so all
0:54:1112 year olds can also apparently I
0:54:13didn't know 12 girls are like that but
0:54:14man it was a little disheartened am it
0:54:16was just hurting both of the state of
0:54:17society as well as the fact that we just
0:54:19gotten really badly beaten by them
0:54:21yeah well I mean we're getting close
0:54:23towards the end of our are allotted time
0:54:25here but i want to know if there's
0:54:26anything in particular you guys want to
0:54:28recommend I mean whether it be a higher
0:54:30level title or something more like a
0:54:32mobile game or anything even a classic
0:54:34game any any suggestions
0:54:37sorry old game old game Greg I've got a
0:54:39lot of a lot of games that i'm playing
0:54:41but enough in there are novel recommend
0:54:42a man who wants to recommend like you
0:54:44cut the rope is really good well you
0:54:45know everybody knows that
0:54:47well yeah have you tried this Angry
0:54:48Birds thing I hear there's there's birds
0:54:52in there they're angry i'm going to put
0:54:54in a plug for on reliving your gaming
0:54:56pass through your children which is what
0:54:58i'm doing now I will simply have soon
0:55:01everybody
0:55:02yeah step step one it's a long road but
0:55:04like have children ultimately work here
0:55:05and if you're an avid gamer you've
0:55:07already failed all right you will not
0:55:10pass step one if you're a regular gamer
0:55:12sorry
0:55:13well this is like trying to play games i
0:55:16wouldn't go back and play these games on
0:55:17my own but going back letting my son
0:55:19play through them is you know is an
0:55:21interesting experience and it does help
0:55:24me appreciate the games that i enjoyed
0:55:25you know when I was a little bit younger
0:55:26seeing someone else experienced them for
0:55:28the first time I think that's it dude I
0:55:31think classic video games are like the
0:55:33Hugo's list is you can go back and and
0:55:35read something that's been on the hero
0:55:37since the mid sixties and it still blows
0:55:39you away and i think that if you're if
0:55:41you're willing to put up with you know
0:55:43not having a beautiful you know shadow
0:55:46rendered graphics on an xbox 360 that
0:55:49you can still enjoy something like
0:55:51deadline which is an amazing game or or
0:55:54chocolate cafe or mule it new label
0:55:58every once in a while did Archon murder
0:56:01on this in turn off their they are all
0:56:03there are literally thousands of
0:56:06terrific games out there and and they're
0:56:08not going to be the experience that they
0:56:10are today but they are still unique and
0:56:12pleasurable experiences
0:56:14well there's something to saying that
0:56:15it's not just the technology that makes
0:56:16the game fun right i mean my few years
0:56:18ago I think they were still in ecology
0:56:20and we've my friends I found a virgin
0:56:22know your place scorched-earth classic
0:56:24toss game with tanks basically the
0:56:27progenitor of things like worms
0:56:28you've got a lot of Tanks you sort of
0:56:30have to figure out the altitude of you
0:56:32know an angle that you're going to fire
0:56:34your tank your your gun on your turn
0:56:36ahead and see if you managed to hit
0:56:38somebody else and if not it's someone
0:56:39else's turn and then you just learn to
0:56:41sort of figured out by trial and error
0:56:42and we found a java-based version of
0:56:44this online and we played it like
0:56:45non-stop for like two months and it was
0:56:48just it was intensely entertaining even
0:56:50though it was like 1984 graphics so I
0:56:53think there's more to examine the
0:56:54technology is really interesting and I
0:56:55think technology is part of what drives
0:56:57games for it but at the end of the end
0:56:59of the day I think it really depends
0:57:00more on on a good game is a good game
0:57:02exactly there's a certain amount of
0:57:04technology that has to be there I mean I
0:57:05I bust out the emulators fairly
0:57:07frequently and i find that as finely as
0:57:10i remember the old atari 2600 games
0:57:13you just can't play them for more than a
0:57:14minute and a half anymore you just can't
0:57:16I mean either looking at squares being
0:57:19eaten by the vaguely oblong dragons you
0:57:22know using an arrow for a so don't you
0:57:24disadvantage her man I'll come over
0:57:25there and kick your ass if you have you
0:57:27checked i love adventure dearly but man
0:57:29you just can't play anymore although i
0:57:31will say that one of the most in like
0:57:33intense gaming experiences I've ever had
0:57:35was being at the the penny arcade expo
0:57:37combat yeah second or third year and it
0:57:39came down to they have this Omega on
0:57:41where they compete and have a bunch of
0:57:43people that compete in various different
0:57:44games throughout like several different
0:57:45rounds and the final round was a
0:57:47one-on-one showdown with the guitar game
0:57:49combat in one arena of like 400,000
0:57:53people probably alternatively little
0:57:55square square
0:57:57let's hear no you're not you're not
0:57:59relying on the technology to provide the
0:58:00entertainment you're alone on the fact
0:58:02you're playing another human rights
0:58:04lawyer you're watching this epic match
0:58:06between these two guys trying to decide
0:58:08who takes home this huge bundle prizes
0:58:09or whatever it was definitely
0:58:10entertaining but yes I don't know that I
0:58:12acted briefly we had a party at a
0:58:15friend's house one night where we broke
0:58:16out the Atari and played combat and man
0:58:18once we got it working
0:58:19you gotta blow the cartridges and
0:58:21everything
0:58:22yeah i can still play a mean warlords
0:58:25there's a yeah I have a shoebox of those
0:58:28Atari titles or one time that we're just
0:58:30gathering dust and we just try each one
0:58:32of them until we found that would work
0:58:33and then we play that so you know
0:58:36eg it is don't play that game is so bad
0:58:42now you can get a free one out in the
0:58:43Las Vegas area desert after the guy who
0:58:47made us really inducing about that
0:58:50well sadly he's not here to defend
0:58:52itself i actually like dt i'm going to
0:58:55go on knowing that you know how to play
0:58:56it
0:58:57oh yeah I finished it that's one
0:58:59possible that you start with saying it
0:59:01that's your winning team you know what
0:59:04that means the way purpose wish to was
0:59:07trying to say the only winning move is
0:59:08not the play is thank you
0:59:11we might want to end it on that maybe
0:59:13that is a good place to end it so I
0:59:15thanks everybody for joining us and I
0:59:17think all of our contributors this week
0:59:19Greg moss thank you Steve lots
0:59:22it's been real John siracusa goodnight
0:59:25everybody
0:59:26Tony's alive whew and I am your guest
0:59:29host and more than sitting in for
0:59:31Jason's now who will probably be back
0:59:32next time thanks for joining us again it
0:59:35had everybody hey
0:59:42this has been the incomparable podcast
0:59:44there's no sadly and comfortable time
0:59:52you can we need to do more of that like
0:59:54that thing where you take the outtakes
0:59:55and you throw them at the end after the
0:59:57music that once or twice going to war
0:59:59that
0:59:59that
1:00:00let me to say increasingly outrageous
1:00:02things before we actually start so that
1:00:04you can you know pick and choose the
1:00:06ridiculous things to come on the end-all
1:00:08doing throw and yeah what the hell is a
1:00:11thing no practice pressure because these
1:00:14units in LIC look so easy when Jason
1:00:16doesn't start walking month wow wow
1:00:20well this is not here to run things so i
1:00:22guess that falls to me which is kinda
1:00:23weird but yeah I'm freaked out a little
1:00:26bit right now and he's my boss so I do
1:00:28whatever he tells you realize you can
1:00:30create any reason that he's not showing
1:00:31up
1:00:32that is a good point that you have many
1:00:34options yeah I'm information snail whose
1:00:37in rehab this nice i mean he probably
1:00:40will get to edit it before it actually
1:00:42goes up on the website so you think he's
1:00:45actually gonna add at this just takes
1:00:48the beginning and the end off and tax
1:00:49the music on what was his excuse anyways
1:00:51its uses that he knows nothing about
1:00:53video games something I think that was
1:00:55pretty much it i didn't know anything
1:00:56about hormones anybody that one and then
1:00:58a different sort of ship here I don't
1:01:00know it smells been coddling you guys
1:01:03this is gonna be hard hitting