The Incomparable

14: There`s Guacamole on the Holodeck


00:00:00   despite gas is being recorded for [TS]

00:00:02   quality assurance purposes to say to [TS]

00:00:05   make sure we don't have any breathing [TS]

00:00:08   three keep walkin [TS]

00:00:09   ali-a game the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:15   episode 44 this amber 2010 go to adjust [TS]

00:00:22   your podcast this is uncomfortable I am [TS]

00:00:25   NOT Jason's now amazingly no I am guest [TS]

00:00:28   host Daniel or jason l couldn't be with [TS]

00:00:30   us tonight for reasons that are better [TS]

00:00:32   left on disclosed because then he'll [TS]

00:00:34   yell at me if I make something up but [TS]

00:00:36   we're here to talk about video games [TS]

00:00:38   which is a topic we have not previously [TS]

00:00:40   done on the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:42   joining me is a kind of a I think the [TS]

00:00:44   only thing fair to call them as a [TS]

00:00:45   rogue's gallery of incomparable [TS]

00:00:47   contributors road was a great game [TS]

00:00:50   yeah we have so we'll go down the list [TS]

00:00:54   here we have Greg NOS how you doing Greg [TS]

00:00:56   good about yourself i am doing pretty [TS]

00:00:58   well we have Steve lots yata hey mixing [TS]

00:01:04   it up a little bit [TS]

00:01:05   that's right i'm in my hometown actually [TS]

00:01:09   in Newton Massachusetts we have John [TS]

00:01:10   siracusa good evening everybody and a [TS]

00:01:14   new incomparable contributor a personal [TS]

00:01:17   friend of mine Tony sindelar LTE i I'm [TS]

00:01:21   so you have video games [TS]

00:01:22   this is something we talked about a lot [TS]

00:01:24   we talked about some books we talk about [TS]

00:01:25   movies and TV but I think video games is [TS]

00:01:27   a really important part of geek culture [TS]

00:01:30   and I i know many of you are avid gamers [TS]

00:01:33   some more recently in something in more [TS]

00:01:35   of a vintage fashion but the answer [TS]

00:01:37   curious to start off now just to see are [TS]

00:01:39   you calling me old [TS]

00:01:41   I yes yes I'm telling you everything [TS]

00:01:43   nice does has been to I was being polite [TS]

00:01:47   maybe I should dial this something start [TS]

00:01:50   being real Tyler for classic I caught [TS]

00:01:56   your effort that's where i'm with you [TS]

00:01:57   somebody is with you [TS]

00:01:58   ok thank God somebody's here so I'm here [TS]

00:02:02   is where you guys two things one where [TS]

00:02:05   you started out playing videos like so [TS]

00:02:06   one of the earliest video games you [TS]

00:02:08   remember playing and then maybe what [TS]

00:02:10   you've been playing more recently [TS]

00:02:12   or what you you know what system you use [TS]

00:02:14   nowadays if any of you know and go [TS]

00:02:17   around the table with that Greg what you [TS]

00:02:19   got [TS]

00:02:19   i started at the dawn of time i played [TS]

00:02:23   the original space war i played in you [TS]

00:02:26   know the arcade version in a Shakey's [TS]

00:02:28   you could drill a hole in a quarter and [TS]

00:02:30   put a string on it and rack up any [TS]

00:02:31   number of credits that you wanted before [TS]

00:02:33   they figured out to mount the whole [TS]

00:02:34   vertically rather than horizontally [TS]

00:02:36   that's a different sort of game [TS]

00:02:37   yeah that's the classic shakeys and not [TS]

00:02:40   this new Fang yeah you know this is this [TS]

00:02:41   is the shakey's of 30 years ago they [TS]

00:02:44   didn't have a ranch dressing background [TS]

00:02:46   to dip your fries but we had ketchup and [TS]

00:02:48   we liked it it was a hamster of world [TS]

00:02:51   apparently I i played like the odyssey [TS]

00:02:55   to I had an atari VCS the 2600 I am I [TS]

00:03:00   remember when space invaders came out [TS]

00:03:02   because it was the first game that had a [TS]

00:03:04   lot of enemies rather than one little [TS]

00:03:06   blip moving at you [TS]

00:03:08   night driver all the all the old arcade [TS]

00:03:11   games that's that's what I grew up on [TS]

00:03:12   I'm retracting my vintage comment and [TS]

00:03:14   just going back to old yeah Paleolithic [TS]

00:03:18   i believe is the actual technical term [TS]

00:03:20   and then I did it I i played regularly [TS]

00:03:24   as I was growing up it's one of the [TS]

00:03:25   reasons that i became a programmer's [TS]

00:03:27   because I wanted to make my own and then [TS]

00:03:28   just stopped got busy games became an [TS]

00:03:32   investment of time that I just couldn't [TS]

00:03:34   make any more for large part and that's [TS]

00:03:36   changing with mobile stuff but man the [TS]

00:03:39   the kids these days [TS]

00:03:42   yeah there's there's certainly uh it's [TS]

00:03:44   certainly become much more mainstream in [TS]

00:03:45   some ways then than it ever has been [TS]

00:03:47   before [TS]

00:03:48   well i think that you know of my control [TS]

00:03:49   like a solid black ops is is like the [TS]

00:03:53   biggest media launch ever i was i was [TS]

00:03:58   amused to see there was an entire week's [TS]

00:04:00   worth of doing is very strips about it I [TS]

00:04:02   mean that you know things are doing our [TS]

00:04:04   mains are tightly it's really convenient [TS]

00:04:06   when it happens because then like old [TS]

00:04:07   people ask you about stuff I read in the [TS]

00:04:12   news interior strips on Newton to some [TS]

00:04:15   of his old people actually have to ask [TS]

00:04:16   ourselves about it [TS]

00:04:18   it's gotten that bad Steve what about [TS]

00:04:20   you where did you start up I my first [TS]

00:04:23   game system was pong and yeah the the [TS]

00:04:26   black and white one that hooked up to [TS]

00:04:28   your TV it was like one console paddles [TS]

00:04:30   didn't even detach from the main console [TS]

00:04:32   on my earliest memories is watching my [TS]

00:04:34   brother defeat my uncle with his feet is [TS]

00:04:39   that with pong or just in general that [TS]

00:04:42   you know it wasn't a comfort food-type [TS]

00:04:43   thing he was playing pong but it was a [TS]

00:04:45   it was still a lasting a lasting image i [TS]

00:04:47   actually have a super pong console in [TS]

00:04:50   the other room [TS]

00:04:51   it's the the one that came afterwards [TS]

00:04:52   that has four games pong volleyball [TS]

00:04:55   basketball and super palm well what the [TS]

00:04:57   hell are we doing on this podcast break [TS]

00:04:59   that out come on [TS]

00:05:00   is that a magnavox item no no this is [TS]

00:05:03   this is the Atari pong super pong it [TS]

00:05:05   takes like 90 batteries you could kill [TS]

00:05:07   somebody with it by saying that and now [TS]

00:05:09   is it still functional because they used [TS]

00:05:12   to make those things totally bulletproof [TS]

00:05:13   me it is it is heavy as a brick and the [TS]

00:05:16   only way I don't have an RF converter to [TS]

00:05:18   hook it up to the back of the TV antenna [TS]

00:05:20   you can hear the ratchets and gears [TS]

00:05:22   because it's a very very tired squirrel [TS]

00:05:25   who makes it go smell burning and then I [TS]

00:05:29   kind of continued on you know had the [TS]

00:05:32   VCS had the Nintendo when it came out I [TS]

00:05:35   took a break during the college years to [TS]

00:05:37   do some heavy drinking and then out when [TS]

00:05:40   I came to my senses I kind of got back [TS]

00:05:42   into gaming a little bit and I now that [TS]

00:05:45   I've got kids that are growing up just [TS]

00:05:47   high tech to begin with they are you [TS]

00:05:50   know they're they're starting to get [TS]

00:05:51   into it and I'm kind of finding a new [TS]

00:05:52   lease on gaming watching them play stuff [TS]

00:05:55   which is interesting but the most recent [TS]

00:05:59   foray into gaming is I picked up a [TS]

00:06:03   connect which is the new ya microcon a [TS]

00:06:06   60 based motion tracking camera i'm [TS]

00:06:09   fascinated York magic acid hear about [TS]

00:06:12   this because I played I played a little [TS]

00:06:13   bit of weed but I have not played the [TS]

00:06:14   connected all I've actually a friend [TS]

00:06:16   who's got one and was actually really [TS]

00:06:19   pumped about it which was kind of [TS]

00:06:20   surprised because he is you know not [TS]

00:06:22   necessarily out like a hardcore gamer as [TS]

00:06:24   it were but he certainly plays you know [TS]

00:06:26   plenty xbox shooters things like that [TS]

00:06:28   and so I was very curious value but he [TS]

00:06:30   was really excited about [TS]

00:06:31   dance central I guess which is one of [TS]

00:06:34   the launch titles for Kinect and even [TS]

00:06:36   said some of the other ones like [TS]

00:06:37   collectibles were even kind of cool so [TS]

00:06:39   I'm kind of fascinated by this but I [TS]

00:06:42   don't know what to make of a quite yet [TS]

00:06:44   I was really into my way for a while to [TS]

00:06:46   and that Bob yeah that was during the [TS]

00:06:48   college years as well that would be good [TS]

00:06:50   sound bite for the end by the way when [TS]

00:06:53   you use the word really pumped to in [TS]

00:06:55   that I'm John how are you [TS]

00:06:58   I think I'm like a little bit after the [TS]

00:07:00   old folks here i didn't i didn't have [TS]

00:07:02   pong but I my big barrier with my [TS]

00:07:05   parents would not let me have a video [TS]

00:07:06   game machine of any kind of my childhood [TS]

00:07:09   so all I'll school you all my [TS]

00:07:11   experiences with my friends so my first [TS]

00:07:14   friend who had a video game thing hadn't [TS]

00:07:16   already 2600 knows my first games and I [TS]

00:07:18   played you know boom and night driver [TS]

00:07:20   and stuff like that adventure but only [TS]

00:07:23   when I was visiting over the house you [TS]

00:07:25   have that type of thing and I don't [TS]

00:07:26   remember being that excited about it [TS]

00:07:28   matter they're neat put like I think I [TS]

00:07:30   didn't really think the graphics for [TS]

00:07:31   that great and then I just didn't I [TS]

00:07:35   remember that a that impression then I i [TS]

00:07:37   moved up through you know personal [TS]

00:07:38   computers i get a pic 20 and stuff like [TS]

00:07:40   that and then i got a Mac and I ended up [TS]

00:07:44   being a mac gamer sort of by default [TS]

00:07:46   because I didn't have I wasn't allowed [TS]

00:07:47   to buy consoles so I play nes over my [TS]

00:07:50   friends house and you know [TS]

00:07:51   sega genesis and super nintendo and [TS]

00:07:53   stuff like that but in my house all i [TS]

00:07:55   had was the mac and so I bought tons and [TS]

00:07:57   tons of mac games which is a weird way [TS]

00:07:59   to sort of grew up as a gamer because it [TS]

00:08:01   probably had a late [TS]

00:08:03   well there was a lot of games believe me [TS]

00:08:05   I mean I've got stuck up the boxes for [TS]

00:08:06   them you know there are a lot of games [TS]

00:08:08   most of them are horrible but and they [TS]

00:08:09   were black and white right but they had [TS]

00:08:11   really high resolution like that I [TS]

00:08:13   resolution super drunk ass over here and [TS]

00:08:16   put cafe that was a great that was a [TS]

00:08:18   great show those ends to my friends who [TS]

00:08:20   had consoles and and despite that I [TS]

00:08:22   could they were black and white they're [TS]

00:08:23   blown away but think about dark castle [TS]

00:08:24   like me know nobody in console you could [TS]

00:08:27   buy had that kind of resolution those [TS]

00:08:28   kind of graphics and animation that kind [TS]

00:08:30   of detail right it was just you know [TS]

00:08:32   unearthly with mac games were like the [TS]

00:08:34   mac software is there's a ton of detail [TS]

00:08:36   that would go into it all the little [TS]

00:08:37   Courtright weeks and you know you played [TS]

00:08:38   dark castle and christmas and the suit [TS]

00:08:40   of armor would turn into a Christmas [TS]

00:08:42   tree [TS]

00:08:43   yeah and another thing about it was that [TS]

00:08:45   even even pc gaming like pc gaming with [TS]

00:08:47   CGA and EGA you could actually get [TS]

00:08:49   colors that were not teal and pink [TS]

00:08:51   ribbon so I played pc games with my [TS]

00:08:53   friends houses and you got a problem if [TS]

00:08:54   you think you can still see the [TS]

00:08:57   different you come back over the mac my [TS]

00:08:58   black and white mac with a 9 inch screen [TS]

00:09:00   and you know it was just amazing [TS]

00:09:02   I kind of stayed and I get over a while [TS]

00:09:05   and then you know eventually came out of [TS]

00:09:08   it when I you don't want to college and [TS]

00:09:09   could I got out of my parents house [TS]

00:09:11   basically you can buy my own video game [TS]

00:09:12   consoles for myself and just you know [TS]

00:09:14   sailed off into the sunset of console [TS]

00:09:17   modern console gaming modern pc / mac [TS]

00:09:20   gaming Amish no more and someone is over [TS]

00:09:23   but I mean I did play a lot of the NES [TS]

00:09:25   classic and stuff like that but just all [TS]

00:09:26   of our friends house so i didn't have [TS]

00:09:28   the full experience but i do feel like i [TS]

00:09:30   had this exotic it's like growing up on [TS]

00:09:31   a tropical island this exotica gaming a [TS]

00:09:34   you know crucible of growing up on mac [TS]

00:09:36   games that get some pretty I mean I had [TS]

00:09:39   a very similar experience in some ways [TS]

00:09:40   but before I mentioned that like tony is [TS]

00:09:42   one of my contemporaries what about [TS]

00:09:44   where did you start out playing I think [TS]

00:09:47   probably the first games I really then [TS]

00:09:48   on boss games on a very old computer [TS]

00:09:52   pretty windows and none of the names [TS]

00:09:54   really stick with me [TS]

00:09:56   um I mean I remember having floppy disks [TS]

00:09:59   that would have like multiple games on [TS]

00:10:00   them and you know they would be very [TS]

00:10:02   simple i think one of the earliest thing [TS]

00:10:04   I remember was an incredibly incredibly [TS]

00:10:06   simplistic side-scroller we're like a [TS]

00:10:08   little helicopter over out on the screen [TS]

00:10:10   will go up and down [TS]

00:10:11   um and I agonized a nintendo you know [TS]

00:10:15   the late eighties people have the [TS]

00:10:16   original Nintendo but i was also the [TS]

00:10:18   moment my nintendo disappeared at a [TS]

00:10:20   certain point because my parents thought [TS]

00:10:23   to determine the video games or adding [TS]

00:10:25   words I have two younger brothers and [TS]

00:10:27   there was there was an incident with [TS]

00:10:28   comment1 one day I was the end of that [TS]

00:10:31   and you moved in with John at this point [TS]

00:10:33   it just just for reference for most of [TS]

00:10:35   us make our livings now with technology [TS]

00:10:37   right yeah and well I and there were [TS]

00:10:40   there was a strange kind of disconnect [TS]

00:10:41   there in the video games were not okay [TS]

00:10:44   but computer games were okay [TS]

00:10:47   exactly my parents never saw that [TS]

00:10:50   loophole either like they wouldn't let [TS]

00:10:51   me get a video game has all but all i do [TS]

00:10:53   is play video games on my computer all [TS]

00:10:54   began [TS]

00:10:55   Peter wasn't like you like dedicated to [TS]

00:10:57   guess that might as well have been for [TS]

00:10:59   you know forget no games and mac paint [TS]

00:11:01   basically apparently never stop party [TS]

00:11:04   girls on the c64 strip poker on the [TS]

00:11:06   Atari 400 all yeah it was like when you [TS]

00:11:09   try to regulate anything that you don't [TS]

00:11:10   quite understand i was also not allowed [TS]

00:11:12   to play violent video games so much of [TS]

00:11:14   my game passed from the late eighties [TS]

00:11:17   and and into the nineties would've been [TS]

00:11:19   a graphic adventures by lucasarts and [TS]

00:11:22   Sarah we're kind of foundation of that I [TS]

00:11:25   remember when I LucasArts game dark [TS]

00:11:27   forces came out which is basically Star [TS]

00:11:29   Wars doom that that was like there was [TS]

00:11:31   there was a great risk there because you [TS]

00:11:33   know I knew I was not allowed to play [TS]

00:11:34   violent video games but I'm very very [TS]

00:11:37   very very very much wanted to play [TS]

00:11:39   resources because you know Star Wars but [TS]

00:11:43   so yeah there's kind of a disparity [TS]

00:11:44   there i had a very similar experience [TS]

00:11:46   and in some ways in that i did not have [TS]

00:11:48   a computer until I was probably you know [TS]

00:11:51   like 90 91 or something like that [TS]

00:11:53   i canna I can't imagine you ever [TS]

00:11:54   consider but before that I got a I ended [TS]

00:11:59   up with the with an original nintendo [TS]

00:12:00   and the only reason that happened as i [TS]

00:12:03   found out many years later was because [TS]

00:12:05   my dad actually want it at a like [TS]

00:12:07   supermarket like like sweepstakes thing [TS]

00:12:10   so he won like an original nintendo it [TS]

00:12:13   came with like three or four games [TS]

00:12:15   including Zelda the original zelda super [TS]

00:12:17   mario brothers and a couple other like a [TS]

00:12:21   couple of those nice nes advantage [TS]

00:12:22   controllers out and I was super psyched [TS]

00:12:25   right because you know I i never thought [TS]

00:12:26   i was going to get a video game system [TS]

00:12:28   but then I had the disappointing [TS]

00:12:31   experience of realizing that i was [TS]

00:12:33   really very bad most video games on the [TS]

00:12:35   original nintendo which I'll argue are a [TS]

00:12:37   lot of work a lot harder than they are [TS]

00:12:39   today I mean a lot of games didn't have [TS]

00:12:41   any way to save anything or you know the [TS]

00:12:44   only way they have ensuring longevity [TS]

00:12:45   was by making them hard so i would i [TS]

00:12:48   would intent like complete repeatedly [TS]

00:12:51   falling pits and just be so like [TS]

00:12:53   frustrated taking me hours to get to [TS]

00:12:55   that point or whatever that I would just [TS]

00:12:57   throw it down in frustration i think [TS]

00:12:58   there was still very much to develop [TS]

00:13:00   design ethos from arcade games where [TS]

00:13:02   by making it difficult EU generated more [TS]

00:13:05   money [TS]

00:13:05   yeah well then you have to justify the [TS]

00:13:07   40 bucks she dropped on the game but it [TS]

00:13:10   wasn't that bad because they they they [TS]

00:13:12   did have games that you could finish and [TS]

00:13:14   yes a day or two right they weren't like [TS]

00:13:16   arcade games are really there was no [TS]

00:13:17   kill screen at the end right this is [TS]

00:13:19   treats alba and it means elbows one of [TS]

00:13:21   the first games actually have saving on [TS]

00:13:22   the cart but the key was you just the [TS]

00:13:24   select button you could pause for days [TS]

00:13:26   and days as you tried to sleep with the [TS]

00:13:29   fear that your brother was gonna go in [TS]

00:13:30   there your friend accidentally hit the [TS]

00:13:31   power button on your lost the game [TS]

00:13:33   that's been paused you know and they [TS]

00:13:35   weren't even there were the idea kind of [TS]

00:13:37   rudimentary things where they wouldn't [TS]

00:13:38   have saved games but they would let you [TS]

00:13:40   have load states i remember that i could [TS]

00:13:41   become a good man to have like a grid [TS]

00:13:43   with dots [TS]

00:13:44   yeah and i remember having like sheets [TS]

00:13:46   of those in my house is your tribe is [TS]

00:13:48   Megan to you could choose different [TS]

00:13:50   paths in terms of which bosses you'd [TS]

00:13:52   fight first and they were optimal build [TS]

00:13:54   orders and I'd have liked the tax paper [TS]

00:13:56   different permutations and it's i think [TS]

00:13:58   at one point I was trying to guess track [TS]

00:13:59   things in that you know it didn't work [TS]

00:14:01   out [TS]

00:14:02   yeah i would throw that I went from [TS]

00:14:04   Nintendo to the to the mac kind of like [TS]

00:14:06   kind of like John and I i remember [TS]

00:14:08   having my first very disappointing [TS]

00:14:10   experience out right after we got our [TS]

00:14:11   first computer i took my dad out to the [TS]

00:14:13   software store that was blocks away and [TS]

00:14:16   we bought this like D&D game and I took [TS]

00:14:18   it home and didn't realize until I got [TS]

00:14:19   home that was a pc only game and that [TS]

00:14:22   was just crushing because i really [TS]

00:14:24   wanted to play it out [TS]

00:14:25   you won that round in that software [TS]

00:14:27   store probably not there anymore [TS]

00:14:29   thatthat's offer story is totally out of [TS]

00:14:30   not a lot of Babbage's hanging around [TS]

00:14:33   yeah that was it was an egghead software [TS]

00:14:35   that oh interesting outright or just yes [TS]

00:14:39   right there [TS]

00:14:39   yeah i'm gonna County like head [TS]

00:14:40   commander keen six there i worked at a [TS]

00:14:44   software etc for a year and a half [TS]

00:14:46   oh yeah yeah I'm sorry i was paying [TS]

00:14:48   penance for something yeah but I had a [TS]

00:14:51   buddy who worked at software etc in in [TS]

00:14:54   the mall by my house and he would take [TS]

00:14:56   games home and play them and shrink wrap [TS]

00:14:58   there was company policy you take [TS]

00:15:01   anything home and there was a [TS]

00:15:02   shrink-wrap machine and was I ever [TS]

00:15:03   envious of that is that considered you [TS]

00:15:05   just a job education yeah you could do [TS]

00:15:08   that in two [TS]

00:15:08   so very recently a gamestop even I think [TS]

00:15:10   they got in trouble like within the last [TS]

00:15:12   two years [TS]

00:15:13   yeah you're not supposed to sample your [TS]

00:15:14   wares I thought I thought that wasn't [TS]

00:15:16   like cardinal rule we talking about the [TS]

00:15:18   we again didn't you play out like text [TS]

00:15:21   adventures I remember because I was [TS]

00:15:22   thinking my very one of my earliest [TS]

00:15:23   memories was going over to a friend's [TS]

00:15:24   house and playing some tax base das game [TS]

00:15:27   that was basically a really it was text [TS]

00:15:30   sort of adventure but it was clearly a [TS]

00:15:32   star wars knock off like it was rescue a [TS]

00:15:36   princess from this space station before [TS]

00:15:37   the space station like blows up or [TS]

00:15:39   something and you could get this they [TS]

00:15:42   called it a vorpal blade in my coma [TS]

00:15:44   lamashtu Jabberwocky i guess but it was [TS]

00:15:48   basically a light saver but I have this [TS]

00:15:50   very vivid memory of playing at a [TS]

00:15:52   friend's house when I was probably in [TS]

00:15:53   likes like first or second grade Vietnam [TS]

00:15:56   and then there's course I played some [TS]

00:15:57   Zork you know whenever I basically i [TS]

00:15:59   remember hopping around like whenever my [TS]

00:16:00   parents would take me to these sort of [TS]

00:16:02   family friends house or some sort of [TS]

00:16:05   distant cousins or something and they [TS]

00:16:08   want to entertain me they stick me in [TS]

00:16:09   the room with like the computer or [TS]

00:16:11   whatever and I would figure out why [TS]

00:16:12   whatever game was on there so I played [TS]

00:16:13   like aphids orc that way and a few other [TS]

00:16:15   things as well there was a golden period [TS]

00:16:17   of text adventures they were they were [TS]

00:16:19   all pretty lousy but they were coming [TS]

00:16:20   out like three or four a day it seemed [TS]

00:16:22   it was after infocomm had started and [TS]

00:16:24   kind of bootstrap the industry and the [TS]

00:16:26   interest in them but then like Scott [TS]

00:16:28   Adams the scott adams text adventures [TS]

00:16:30   there were 20 or 30 of them that came [TS]

00:16:33   out and then the sierra on-line also did [TS]

00:16:35   that the princess and the [TS]

00:16:37   something-or-other they were they [TS]

00:16:40   started within the present within the [TS]

00:16:41   princess has introduced graphics the top [TS]

00:16:43   of the screen that would that would take [TS]

00:16:44   three or four seconds to draw graphics [TS]

00:16:46   that they amusingly referred to as high [TS]

00:16:49   resident yeah the Apple to in looking at [TS]

00:16:52   black and white stick figures with [TS]

00:16:53   knives spirit through them i had a head [TS]

00:16:56   you freak me out with the info comping [TS]

00:16:57   just because i have memories of being an [TS]

00:16:59   engineer high school in the computer [TS]

00:17:01   labs after school and we were trying to [TS]

00:17:02   beat the Hitchhiker's Guide infocomm [TS]

00:17:04   adventure and I was that was a tough one [TS]

00:17:07   that's a hard game was the first games [TS]

00:17:09   that lied to you yeah we got second part [TS]

00:17:11   with the babble that's a cheap that's a [TS]

00:17:12   cheap game oh yes that was I mean that [TS]

00:17:14   was the thing where it we got stuck in [TS]

00:17:15   the room of the babelfish and like you [TS]

00:17:17   know you trust like five minutes [TS]

00:17:18   into the game yeah and so you try the [TS]

00:17:20   entire damn light put the towel over the [TS]

00:17:23   great Florida Fish Hooks under the [TS]

00:17:24   talent is out satchel in front of the [TS]

00:17:27   robot thing and the mail on top of the [TS]

00:17:29   satchel so it flies through the air and [TS]

00:17:30   the airborne robot catches the mail and [TS]

00:17:32   doesn't get the babelfish in their lands [TS]

00:17:34   in your ear [TS]

00:17:34   well I don't know that's the backlight [TS]

00:17:36   earlier i'm sorry i often get the horn [TS]

00:17:39   yeah we got all this have beaten that [TS]

00:17:40   puzzle yeah but what part of you're [TS]

00:17:43   killing her and what information could [TS]

00:17:44   be in that part of your brain is taken [TS]

00:17:46   up with memories of hitchhikers [TS]

00:17:48   it's either that or abba lyrics i found [TS]

00:17:50   that thing is a dedicated slot actually [TS]

00:17:52   nothing else will fit their you spend [TS]

00:17:54   long enough working at something you you [TS]

00:17:56   you keep it [TS]

00:17:57   they ported the secret of monkey island [TS]

00:17:59   on which is one of my favorite games of [TS]

00:18:01   all times like 1992 the the xbox 360 and [TS]

00:18:04   i bought it was I felt a little indict [TS]

00:18:05   about you know finding it again [TS]

00:18:07   um but I think I've got further [TS]

00:18:09   indignant when I replayed the entire [TS]

00:18:10   game that took me I think like a summer [TS]

00:18:13   as you know like a twelve-year-old I [TS]

00:18:16   replayed in like two hours because I [TS]

00:18:18   remembered the answer to every single [TS]

00:18:19   possible not the puzzles were easy for [TS]

00:18:22   an adult Tony to figure out like they [TS]

00:18:24   were burned into my head well that's a [TS]

00:18:25   testament to the really good games a lot [TS]

00:18:27   of these adventures are big part of my [TS]

00:18:29   life too because how just having a Mac [TS]

00:18:30   didn't have lots of you know grants you [TS]

00:18:33   a text adventure so I remember they had [TS]

00:18:34   parts of Apple to stuff like [TS]

00:18:35   Transylvania and the Crimson crown those [TS]

00:18:37   are also apple two games but they were [TS]

00:18:38   basically text adventures with a little [TS]

00:18:40   graphic so you're sitting there typing [TS]

00:18:41   you know your little commands and [TS]

00:18:42   everything [TS]

00:18:43   the uninvited Shadowgate and i remember [TS]

00:18:46   those because again it was like at that [TS]

00:18:47   age the solving one of those puzzles [TS]

00:18:50   yourself just like alters your brain and [TS]

00:18:52   interesting ways i still remember you [TS]

00:18:54   know some of them are actually not like [TS]

00:18:56   shadow gamestop had things are you drag [TS]

00:18:58   some item on top of another item is part [TS]

00:19:00   of the puzzle and it wasn't it wasn't [TS]

00:19:01   just typing something that's that's that [TS]

00:19:05   these games that the ones that you [TS]

00:19:06   remind my plate hundreds of games i mean [TS]

00:19:08   back back when I had my Atari 402 that [TS]

00:19:12   instead of having a childhood I i play [TS]

00:19:16   dozens and dozens and dozens of games [TS]

00:19:18   and I remember a few of them but the [TS]

00:19:20   ones that i remember i had have a [TS]

00:19:23   greater place in my mind then like a lot [TS]

00:19:25   of movies or books or or relatives or [TS]

00:19:29   friends well there's something about the [TS]

00:19:31   whole the the interactive nature of it i [TS]

00:19:33   think because like like John saying with [TS]

00:19:35   solving the puzzles you get you get [TS]

00:19:37   engaged in a way you don't necessarily [TS]

00:19:38   when you're a passive reader or a [TS]

00:19:40   passive you know audience member [TS]

00:19:41   watching a movie but like if you do [TS]

00:19:43   something you know use some sort of [TS]

00:19:45   procedural action than it really does [TS]

00:19:48   stick with you i remember playing [TS]

00:19:49   deadline for the first time I ordered it [TS]

00:19:51   I bought it was $15 and I and it came [TS]

00:19:54   and they used to come in in custom packs [TS]

00:19:56   it was a dossier that was sealed shut [TS]

00:19:58   with a no crime sticker and you open it [TS]

00:20:00   up and there was no crime scene evidence [TS]

00:20:02   and photos and it was just one had pills [TS]

00:20:05   I really yes the pills the lien put into [TS]

00:20:08   the the tea that killed mr. robin turner [TS]

00:20:11   i'm at the game sounds awesome i kinda [TS]

00:20:13   want to play that started a cave and [TS]

00:20:16   it-it-it I I'm I mean it's what gosh 25 [TS]

00:20:20   years later and I did I still profoundly [TS]

00:20:22   remember it i mean and and this survivor [TS]

00:20:25   lets you know to segue a little bit into [TS]

00:20:27   the the current state of gaming I'm very [TS]

00:20:29   i find it very interesting how it seems [TS]

00:20:32   like gaming today is both a a much [TS]

00:20:34   larger world just in general mean it [TS]

00:20:36   like we talked about earlier it's gotten [TS]

00:20:38   much more mainstream and it encompasses [TS]

00:20:40   all sorts of things from mobile gaming [TS]

00:20:41   to console gaming to computer gaming to [TS]

00:20:43   online you know web gaming that kind of [TS]

00:20:46   stuff but in some ways the mainstream of [TS]

00:20:48   it has become very almost wrote in the [TS]

00:20:50   same way that that mainstream film has I [TS]

00:20:53   think I mean you know you see a lot of [TS]

00:20:55   titles that are very repetitive and they [TS]

00:20:57   followed into a similar formula you know [TS]

00:20:59   a first-person shooter a strategy game [TS]

00:21:01   on RPG that kind of thing and it seems [TS]

00:21:04   like there's not a lot of innovation [TS]

00:21:06   there so I mean the big development [TS]

00:21:07   houses keep rehashing the same [TS]

00:21:09   properties which is very similar to what [TS]

00:21:11   happens in Hollywood right now [TS]

00:21:12   well the budgets have gotten so big that [TS]

00:21:14   they are Hollywood movies they have [TS]

00:21:15   launches and if you don't make it in the [TS]

00:21:17   first couple weeks you're dead and you [TS]

00:21:18   may have invested fifty million dollars [TS]

00:21:20   and and you know 300 man years in [TS]

00:21:23   developing this thing and so you're not [TS]

00:21:25   going to take a risk and but every once [TS]

00:21:27   in a while you get one of those indie [TS]

00:21:29   hits right yeah you get something like [TS]

00:21:30   minecraft which is the game a lot of [TS]

00:21:32   people been talking about recently [TS]

00:21:33   that's just you know some guy made this [TS]

00:21:35   game right because it was zero risk [TS]

00:21:37   right most of the big studios do it to [TS]

00:21:40   like valve that portal right and it's [TS]

00:21:41   just lonely [TS]

00:21:42   in reality no students to Paul a while [TS]

00:21:44   he acquired them it's the same things [TS]

00:21:46   like Miramax you know like the big [TS]

00:21:47   studios find someone with with a good [TS]

00:21:49   idea and give them a little bit of money [TS]

00:21:50   and maybe it's a hit and it happens in [TS]

00:21:52   movies 2 is just you know like to look [TS]

00:21:54   at clerks for example that's an example [TS]

00:21:56   of an indie hit that you know I went on [TS]

00:21:59   to let the person go on to greater [TS]

00:22:01   things or maybe lesser things many [TS]

00:22:02   haven't really had that happen for [TS]

00:22:04   another that's for another podcast yeah [TS]

00:22:06   but there's lots of you know Hollywood [TS]

00:22:09   does exactly the same thing stances that [TS]

00:22:11   that whole system exists adjusted in [TS]

00:22:13   gaming it seems like people are more [TS]

00:22:16   reliably able to make money off the [TS]

00:22:18   generic stuff and so like like woman [TS]

00:22:22   generic hollywood movies flop flop a lot [TS]

00:22:25   more often than generic first-person [TS]

00:22:26   shooters do i feel like because if you [TS]

00:22:27   make high-quality triple a first-person [TS]

00:22:29   shooter game for the xbox with a good [TS]

00:22:32   license with intellectual property [TS]

00:22:33   you'll make your money back it's like a [TS]

00:22:35   solid earner you don't have one of those [TS]

00:22:37   very rarely do you have one of those 50 [TS]

00:22:38   million dollar games come out and [TS]

00:22:39   totally flopped but you can have a [TS]

00:22:41   hundred-million-dollar movie like Ishtar [TS]

00:22:42   come out and make like nothing now so I [TS]

00:22:45   think they're they're sticking to the [TS]

00:22:47   formula more just because their success [TS]

00:22:49   rate is higher than the Hollywood guys [TS]

00:22:50   are want to stick to the formula that's [TS]

00:22:52   one reason i'm excited about like the [TS]

00:22:54   smaller mobile games like on the iphone [TS]

00:22:57   is they aren't as big a risk and they [TS]

00:22:58   can really experiment with gameplay [TS]

00:23:00   there's a lot of really weird stuff on [TS]

00:23:02   the iphone that's fun and doesn't [TS]

00:23:05   require a 60 or 80 our investment or [TS]

00:23:07   sixty or eighty dollar investment and [TS]

00:23:09   and the expectation from the the gamer [TS]

00:23:11   is for the quality of graphics the [TS]

00:23:14   length of the game are a lot more [TS]

00:23:16   reasonable for one person or a small [TS]

00:23:17   group of people can actually construct [TS]

00:23:19   it's kind of a different audience to [TS]

00:23:21   because we touch interface it makes [TS]

00:23:22   people not be like member when people [TS]

00:23:24   tried to make Lego Space Invaders your [TS]

00:23:26   iphone and you know Gallagher if you're [TS]

00:23:27   gonna kind of works but it's like that's [TS]

00:23:29   not you know all the conventional games [TS]

00:23:32   of the gaming developers have been [TS]

00:23:33   making for you know decades you can make [TS]

00:23:35   those for the iphone you can but their [TS]

00:23:37   crap you have to you have to think of [TS]

00:23:38   something know which is interesting [TS]

00:23:40   because it's one of the examples of how [TS]

00:23:41   technology I think you know a lot of the [TS]

00:23:44   technology has in some ways exactly stay [TS]

00:23:46   the same but its progress along logical [TS]

00:23:48   lines right we've gone to higher and [TS]

00:23:49   higher [TS]

00:23:50   resolution displays you know we've gone [TS]

00:23:52   to to better physics engines that kind [TS]

00:23:55   of stuff but i think you know the the [TS]

00:23:56   interactive part of it with the [TS]

00:23:58   touchscreen both on the the iphone and [TS]

00:24:00   you know the other smartphones as well [TS]

00:24:02   as things like the nintendo dsi the dsi [TS]

00:24:05   was that was really interesting as a [TS]

00:24:06   platform just because it clearly was [TS]

00:24:09   nintendo trying to you know a whole [TS]

00:24:11   bunch of really different technologies [TS]

00:24:13   because they did their games that [TS]

00:24:14   involve touch their games involve [TS]

00:24:15   microphone you know they really played [TS]

00:24:18   with with all the conventions that we [TS]

00:24:20   had become established you that's what [TS]

00:24:22   we did to was introduced new interface [TS]

00:24:24   conventions and the kinect was always [TS]

00:24:26   been willing to do crazy remember [TS]

00:24:28   virtual boy didn't work out for them but [TS]

00:24:31   it but they've always been willing to [TS]

00:24:32   say I'm i'll stick a camera on there put [TS]

00:24:34   on goggles in order before the thing you [TS]

00:24:36   strap on your arm or you know I mean [TS]

00:24:38   sometimes they work sometimes it don't [TS]

00:24:40   they're kind of people are kind of [TS]

00:24:41   dismissive at least hardcore gamers are [TS]

00:24:42   dismissive of casual gaming but it every [TS]

00:24:45   time I try and play hardcore gamers game [TS]

00:24:47   i get my ass handed to me because I [TS]

00:24:49   haven't invested a significant portion [TS]

00:24:51   of my life just becoming competent now [TS]

00:24:54   you're a casual gamer well it's it's a [TS]

00:24:56   whole different game that sunday jewel I [TS]

00:24:58   always realize that whenever i play you [TS]

00:25:00   know we'll all play a you know shooters [TS]

00:25:02   of my friends online or whatever and [TS]

00:25:03   every once in a while will venture out [TS]

00:25:05   into the wilds of the internet and [TS]

00:25:06   totally get get ripped just because I if [TS]

00:25:10   we don't know i mean there's a whole [TS]

00:25:11   nother level of game there that we [TS]

00:25:12   weren't even aware of and i find that [TS]

00:25:14   exhilarating still though because I [TS]

00:25:16   still I still like you're not getting [TS]

00:25:18   your ass handed to you because I can't [TS]

00:25:20   reach it I think she's feeling is not [TS]

00:25:21   like I feel like I'm still a contender a [TS]

00:25:24   little bit like you notice i like for [TS]

00:25:26   example when I'm real tournament 2004 [TS]

00:25:27   came out like I I didn't have time to [TS]

00:25:29   play games lot of whatever but I had [TS]

00:25:30   first person shooter skills kind of [TS]

00:25:32   honed by in like quick an hour back in [TS]

00:25:34   those days in a little bit of doom right [TS]

00:25:36   so i play unreal tournament 2004 during [TS]

00:25:39   my lunch break with my co-workers right [TS]

00:25:40   and then we'd go online and play people [TS]

00:25:42   and we weren't the best but we weren't [TS]

00:25:44   the worst week we could hang in there [TS]

00:25:45   with the crazy 12 year olds playing [TS]

00:25:47   constantly and there's something [TS]

00:25:48   exhilarating about that level of sort of [TS]

00:25:50   Darwinian survival of the fittest like [TS]

00:25:52   there's no hand-holding there's no [TS]

00:25:53   coddling it that you can play with them [TS]

00:25:54   are you can't and if you can't it's no I [TS]

00:25:57   think that's why even you can't it's no [TS]

00:25:59   fun but it's like it's like playing like [TS]

00:26:00   a sport you know [TS]

00:26:02   yeah like you're just like what [TS]

00:26:03   that ball with Shaquille O'Neal or [TS]

00:26:05   something what would not even because [TS]

00:26:06   it's other its other just other people [TS]

00:26:08   just like you but there's no there's no [TS]

00:26:10   hand-holding you're coddling there's no [TS]

00:26:11   like Oh everyone gets a trophy which you [TS]

00:26:13   see a lot of in many aspects of life [TS]

00:26:15   gaming you know what I want to transmit [TS]

00:26:17   dammit right where you know all we just [TS]

00:26:20   were just here to have fun and we're [TS]

00:26:21   both know this is cutthroat competition [TS]

00:26:22   and I really love that corner is still [TS]

00:26:25   there and that occasionally i can i can [TS]

00:26:27   i can be on the same field with them and [TS]

00:26:29   not not feel like i can guarantee that [TS]

00:26:31   it not only real not get a trophy you [TS]

00:26:33   will probably get many other unpleasant [TS]

00:26:34   things done to you can always want you [TS]

00:26:37   and Congressman working avidly at [TS]

00:26:39   finding some way to level the playing [TS]

00:26:40   field for all video game players but [TS]

00:26:43   plus as someone with a son I really feel [TS]

00:26:46   like I have to keep up these skills [TS]

00:26:47   because it's my job to for as long as I [TS]

00:26:49   possibly can dominate him and all gaming [TS]

00:26:51   actually said was right until the coming [TS]

00:26:55   of age when he finally beats his father [TS]

00:26:57   you want that to be an experience you [TS]

00:26:58   wanted to be like always for now you can [TS]

00:27:00   be just that i don't know i still have [TS]

00:27:02   my dad's chest and I'm 30 [TS]

00:27:04   well you know that's a different kind of [TS]

00:27:06   game but I can i use the only game i [TS]

00:27:08   think i ever convince my dad to play [TS]

00:27:10   with me was our c program on the [TS]

00:27:11   original nintendo and I definitely [TS]

00:27:13   rocked him on that because you have no [TS]

00:27:15   idea what's going on do you think that's [TS]

00:27:17   a different thing with this generation [TS]

00:27:18   in the are in general our children are [TS]

00:27:21   doing things that we enjoyed his [TS]

00:27:22   children whereas i was not doing things [TS]

00:27:24   to my father enjoyed but just because [TS]

00:27:25   there was not like no technology was [TS]

00:27:27   like rollerskating rolling a hoop [TS]

00:27:28   wherever the hell he was doing his [TS]

00:27:31   girlfriend riding a bicycle with a big [TS]

00:27:33   front wheel in a tiny backwards so you [TS]

00:27:35   know but I'm but my son is watching Star [TS]

00:27:37   Wars movies my son is playing through [TS]

00:27:39   you know when Waker now game that I [TS]

00:27:41   played When I was you know in my [TS]

00:27:42   twenties you don't say it's kinda weird [TS]

00:27:44   to be raising kids in an age where they [TS]

00:27:47   actually do things that their parents [TS]

00:27:48   did and god I hope I want to don't have [TS]

00:27:51   your back into the motion controls [TS]

00:27:52   question because I think that the the [TS]

00:27:54   casual gaming is an interesting field in [TS]

00:27:57   that there's I mean of course nintendo [TS]

00:27:59   came out with the we like two thousand [TS]

00:28:01   six or so and you know there was kind of [TS]

00:28:04   a lot of derision from especially the [TS]

00:28:06   hardcore gamers as we were saying but [TS]

00:28:07   now intend over China [TS]

00:28:09   I mean the name didn't help that i love [TS]

00:28:12   sure but i think and now everything all [TS]

00:28:16   the other major console people are are [TS]

00:28:17   copying them right i mean sony came out [TS]

00:28:19   with a motion-sensitive controller and [TS]

00:28:20   now Microsoft sort of up the ante with [TS]

00:28:22   the kinect can argue with a barrel full [TS]

00:28:25   of cash yeah if they sold a billion of [TS]

00:28:27   them that there was a great cover to [TS]

00:28:29   edge magazine that had a golden Nintendo [TS]

00:28:31   Wiimote on it said who dares wins which [TS]

00:28:33   is basically nintendo was the one who [TS]

00:28:35   dared because they were in last place in [TS]

00:28:36   1000 was at the added the least to lose [TS]

00:28:38   and so they they did the move that the [TS]

00:28:40   movie with the most guts and it paid off [TS]

00:28:42   for them [TS]

00:28:43   well we was a genius idea really for [TS]

00:28:45   them i mean that they realized they [TS]

00:28:47   couldn't compete on a purely [TS]

00:28:48   technological level with sony and and [TS]

00:28:50   and microsoft and and they really didn't [TS]

00:28:53   even want to try because those two [TS]

00:28:54   systems are so similar [TS]

00:28:56   you know just these high-powered [TS]

00:28:58   graphics pushers and I would compete [TS]

00:29:00   with that with the graphics with the [TS]

00:29:02   game in a gamecube generation the [TS]

00:29:03   gamecube was held its own with with you [TS]

00:29:06   know I was in between us to the xbox and [TS]

00:29:08   ps3 controller but we got the righted [TS]

00:29:10   for basically being too GameCubes [TS]

00:29:11   duct-taped together [TS]

00:29:13   well I mean it wasn't it was just one [TS]

00:29:14   game cube but the thing is they they [TS]

00:29:16   lost in the market they couldn't sell [TS]

00:29:17   games they weren't making money they [TS]

00:29:19   were in last place money-wise not [TS]

00:29:20   technology-wise like you know because [TS]

00:29:22   they don't make me have the same guys [TS]

00:29:23   make their chips you know in that [TS]

00:29:25   generation IBM made all the cpu this [TS]

00:29:27   point is not that they they could not [TS]

00:29:28   have competed on the technological [TS]

00:29:29   friend obviously could read a bunch of [TS]

00:29:31   graphics chips into a box and attempted [TS]

00:29:33   to compete but i think they saw that the [TS]

00:29:35   market was glutted with with the with [TS]

00:29:38   pixel pushing monsters like the xbox and [TS]

00:29:40   the the ps3 and they've always kind of [TS]

00:29:43   leaned towards this approach that [TS]

00:29:45   differs from from what Sony and [TS]

00:29:47   Microsoft which is it Sony Microsoft [TS]

00:29:48   will take a loss on the hardware upfront [TS]

00:29:50   and make all their money on the [TS]

00:29:52   licensing the games on the back end [TS]

00:29:54   whereas Nintendo's on opening you know [TS]

00:29:57   this this this wide-open casual market [TS]

00:29:59   that was starting to burgeon and decided [TS]

00:30:02   you know rather than try and produce a [TS]

00:30:05   third more of the same kind of gaming [TS]

00:30:07   console let's try something else we [TS]

00:30:08   won't bother trying to [TS]

00:30:10   overcome the others with our graphics [TS]

00:30:12   and and will actually make a profit on [TS]

00:30:15   the console before we even get around to [TS]

00:30:17   taking our our skin off of the games [TS]

00:30:20   well then intent always made a profit on [TS]

00:30:22   their hardware if they could they also [TS]

00:30:24   made a profit on the games that then [TS]

00:30:26   they were the king for a while but it [TS]

00:30:27   took two generations of them coming in [TS]

00:30:29   last in terms of sales that they [TS]

00:30:31   nintendo 64 there in last place gamecube [TS]

00:30:34   there in last place and you know it's [TS]

00:30:36   not for let's look at the hardware the [TS]

00:30:37   game two harbors quality harbor they [TS]

00:30:39   just they were just losing and it took a [TS]

00:30:40   little head nod third-party lesson that [TS]

00:30:42   you know yeah bring it down to third [TS]

00:30:44   parties because they added couldn't [TS]

00:30:46   attract other other developers onto [TS]

00:30:49   their consoles and and meanwhile sony [TS]

00:30:50   and microsoft we're locking up by you [TS]

00:30:53   know buying rare and Squaresoft and all [TS]

00:30:56   the other big third-party developers [TS]

00:30:58   while Nintendo's appeal has always been [TS]

00:31:00   all your much of Nintendo's bill has [TS]

00:31:02   always been there [TS]

00:31:02   the first party titles right the [TS]

00:31:04   franchise's like zelda and mario right [TS]

00:31:06   now because they made all the money on [TS]

00:31:08   those right like they controlled [TS]

00:31:09   everything remember they used to charge [TS]

00:31:11   third parties to make the content [TS]

00:31:13   cartridges for yeah they had those seals [TS]

00:31:15   on the right right is that you your [TS]

00:31:17   third-party you had to give some huge [TS]

00:31:18   amount of your money to nintendo and you [TS]

00:31:20   also to pay them to build your [TS]

00:31:21   cartridges they made a profit and [TS]

00:31:22   everything like they wanted that sounds [TS]

00:31:24   like another company i could name but [TS]

00:31:25   yeah they are very natural like in that [TS]

00:31:27   regard on the kind of had the same fall [TS]

00:31:29   where it's like well you know that [TS]

00:31:31   business used to be a winner but now now [TS]

00:31:33   that style of business is a loser [TS]

00:31:34   because no one wants to work with you [TS]

00:31:35   they want to work rise competitors so [TS]

00:31:37   they don't you just come when all they [TS]

00:31:39   had was their first party titles and [TS]

00:31:40   that was it i mean by the time the [TS]

00:31:42   gamecube came out you you either bought [TS]

00:31:43   nintendo first parties or you went and [TS]

00:31:46   played your friends xbox it sounds like [TS]

00:31:49   a decade there of them trying and losing [TS]

00:31:51   so it's not quite as Noble as it might [TS]

00:31:52   seem a retrospective like Oh nintendo [TS]

00:31:54   had a better idea nintendo was screwed [TS]

00:31:56   right name that you know and that [TS]

00:31:58   because they had so little to lose and [TS]

00:31:59   they were backed into a corner [TS]

00:32:01   they said all right forget they [TS]

00:32:02   basically bet the company on the week is [TS]

00:32:03   that was about the company move that got [TS]

00:32:05   a new CEO is that I'm going to do this [TS]

00:32:07   crazy thing everyone thought was crazy [TS]

00:32:09   you know the before you know that you [TS]

00:32:11   want to introduce the week at the like [TS]

00:32:12   you're doing what with the what now it's [TS]

00:32:14   a remote-control you are so dead they [TS]

00:32:16   weren't that you know they never gonna [TS]

00:32:19   live this raises increase interesting [TS]

00:32:21   question to me though which is now that [TS]

00:32:23   sony and microsoft have both made their [TS]

00:32:24   own moves into the same sort of realm is [TS]

00:32:28   there room for all of these different [TS]

00:32:30   companies to survive because I mean I i [TS]

00:32:32   know people who have we a we and I just [TS]

00:32:34   I feel like I don't hear about [TS]

00:32:36   constantly compelling titles coming out [TS]

00:32:38   for the content for the console and I [TS]

00:32:40   think unfortunately the we suckers now [TS]

00:32:43   30 minutes it's kind of like back where [TS]

00:32:44   the PlayStation and Xbox where the way [TS]

00:32:47   is a popular platform that there's a [TS]

00:32:49   glut of junks Oscar for it [TS]

00:32:51   people call it we shuffle where they're [TS]

00:32:54   always was [TS]

00:32:54   there's so many people developing for [TS]

00:32:56   the wii and in some ways it's you know [TS]

00:32:58   the graphic standards are lower the way [TS]

00:32:59   there's just there's a ton of garbage [TS]

00:33:00   out now but we has the interesting [TS]

00:33:03   problem is sort of like the nintendo 64 [TS]

00:33:05   on gamecube problem where it's like well [TS]

00:33:07   the first party titles are great but the [TS]

00:33:08   third party ones are not great and [TS]

00:33:10   before I was third party ones around [TS]

00:33:12   great just because they didn't have the [TS]

00:33:13   games but now they have you know [TS]

00:33:14   shovelware they just have the bad ports [TS]

00:33:17   and it's still it's kind of must be from [TS]

00:33:18   different vendors say we we sold the [TS]

00:33:21   most consoles we have the huge installed [TS]

00:33:22   base we crushed our competitors and we [TS]

00:33:24   still have only great first-party titles [TS]

00:33:26   and not great third-party titles [TS]

00:33:28   well it's interesting too because this [TS]

00:33:30   is this is very similar to what happened [TS]

00:33:32   back in 1986 or 88 are 87 or so when [TS]

00:33:36   that when they have the big video game [TS]

00:33:38   crash I mean there were there were [TS]

00:33:40   boatloads of third-party titles coming [TS]

00:33:42   out from every way for the nintendo and [TS]

00:33:44   karina chase the chuck wagon that was an [TS]

00:33:48   atari 2600 title that was the previous [TS]

00:33:50   crash and it kind of makes me wonder if [TS]

00:33:52   we're not about to see something similar [TS]

00:33:54   i mean i-i think we have the outlet of [TS]

00:33:56   mobile to prevent that crash because I [TS]

00:33:58   think you're just people shift the [TS]

00:33:59   dollars because the explosion of mobile [TS]

00:34:01   gaming shows it's not just gonna like go [TS]

00:34:03   away go like gaming gaming is now is now [TS]

00:34:06   too-big-to-fail basically like it's too [TS]

00:34:08   diverse you can't kill it is too big to [TS]

00:34:09   fail as a bad analogy it's more like I [TS]

00:34:11   can make her like you can you can chop [TS]

00:34:12   off all the combos and make every [TS]

00:34:14   console makers fail right but it doesn't [TS]

00:34:16   matter because game has got its claws [TS]

00:34:17   into everything you can never get rid of [TS]

00:34:19   it maybe like Blackmore we gonna sexy [TS]

00:34:21   you keep taking showers on your mind [TS]

00:34:24   your mind again now there's a real black [TS]

00:34:25   mold is going on you know are we gonna [TS]

00:34:29   start to see a government meeting with a [TS]

00:34:30   video game sometimes that's what may be [TS]

00:34:33   a doormat bailout video game I would bet [TS]

00:34:34   that that is it just because I did you [TS]

00:34:37   say that giving is like a black hole [TS]

00:34:39   like guacamole it was a little looking [TS]

00:34:41   all over thinking of you know what gets [TS]

00:34:43   into your house and you just can't get [TS]

00:34:44   it out it's going to burn the house and [TS]

00:34:46   I really any point is that you killed [TS]

00:34:48   all the consoles like gaming would still [TS]

00:34:50   be alive if it's not going to be like [TS]

00:34:51   wasn't cocky ladies you know the podcast [TS]

00:34:56   of misplaced analogies I think we'll [TS]

00:34:58   concentrate III yeah i know i think that [TS]

00:35:02   the the we is is definitely going to see [TS]

00:35:05   a lot of challenge from microsoft and [TS]

00:35:07   sony but i don't i don't know are people [TS]

00:35:09   really that desirous of like you know [TS]

00:35:12   standing around protecting their arms is [TS]

00:35:14   that is that something that appeals to [TS]

00:35:15   people with us keep buying them they [TS]

00:35:17   sure as hell bought a lot of them right [TS]

00:35:19   at me [TS]

00:35:19   dan I don't know about you but I'm [TS]

00:35:20   flapping my arms of right now and it's [TS]

00:35:24   not tonight right [TS]

00:35:25   I mean I'm not gonna sales time like I [TS]

00:35:28   can tell you that was like you know the [TS]

00:35:30   third johnny-come-lately the third one [TS]

00:35:32   the last guy to get emotional and they [TS]

00:35:33   still sold a billion of money you know [TS]

00:35:35   it was like a million and a half of the [TS]

00:35:37   first month like that selling electronic [TS]

00:35:38   scheduled ever [TS]

00:35:39   yeah I don't know they sold a lot and I [TS]

00:35:41   wonder part of that is I mean they sort [TS]

00:35:43   of took it to the next level right both [TS]

00:35:44   with Sony 101 require the you know your [TS]

00:35:47   controllers that you're moving around [TS]

00:35:48   and Microsoft like screw that we're [TS]

00:35:50   going to go straight to just you know [TS]

00:35:51   you know it's just you you are the [TS]

00:35:53   controller and so I mean I i don't know [TS]

00:35:55   i have not like I said I'm played one I [TS]

00:35:57   know nothing about you know its merits [TS]

00:35:59   or what have you but that seems like [TS]

00:36:01   another pretty it seems like they're [TS]

00:36:03   trying to take it to the next level [TS]

00:36:04   trying to one-up them right well I can [TS]

00:36:06   tell you that they're their marketing [TS]

00:36:07   work gangbusters because my [TS]

00:36:08   four-year-old before we bought the thing [TS]

00:36:10   was walking around the house for days [TS]

00:36:11   saying with kinectimals you are the [TS]

00:36:13   controller that is kind of kind of [TS]

00:36:17   terrifying action was very distressing [TS]

00:36:19   for me personally and get you went out [TS]

00:36:21   and got one anyways I was amped he was [TS]

00:36:23   and what what is it about that appeals [TS]

00:36:26   to you i mean i'm curious is it just you [TS]

00:36:28   know I think after whatever spend 30 odd [TS]

00:36:31   years of gaming I i'm interested in [TS]

00:36:33   giving the new stuff [TS]

00:36:34   try whenever it comes out because i [TS]

00:36:36   think i've i've pretty much reached the [TS]

00:36:38   point where i'm jaded on standard gaming [TS]

00:36:39   and it doesn't really hold as much [TS]

00:36:41   interest for me as it once did [TS]

00:36:43   so tell us about kinectimals well the [TS]

00:36:46   the first of all the connect itself [TS]

00:36:48   actually works surprisingly well I i [TS]

00:36:51   waited for the free or the initial [TS]

00:36:52   reviews to come in before I went out and [TS]

00:36:54   got one and they were I guess sort of [TS]

00:36:57   mediocre to positive so I wasn't [TS]

00:37:00   expecting much when I look the thing up [TS]

00:37:01   but I was shocked at how well it [TS]

00:37:04   actually tracks you I mean it does have [TS]

00:37:05   its issues you know freaks out [TS]

00:37:07   occasionally when you move your hands in [TS]

00:37:10   front of your chest and it loses track [TS]

00:37:11   of where your extremities are which we [TS]

00:37:14   usually results in some pretty hilarious [TS]

00:37:15   results on the screen when you watch [TS]

00:37:17   your on-screen avatars like hand [TS]

00:37:19   snapping it's very unusual ways and but [TS]

00:37:24   by and large the technology works a lot [TS]

00:37:26   better than i was expecting it to Bob [TS]

00:37:28   it's not really one to one that they I [TS]

00:37:31   guess microsoft opted not to put any [TS]

00:37:33   kind of processing power within the [TS]

00:37:34   device itself so it's up to the 360 to [TS]

00:37:38   actually do all the processing which [TS]

00:37:39   does result in some lag but it's it's [TS]

00:37:42   very similar to the wii I where you know [TS]

00:37:44   the wii remotes really the phi delta T [TS]

00:37:46   on the things ridiculous just horrible [TS]

00:37:49   and a couple of good developers nintendo [TS]

00:37:54   most notably with wii sports just [TS]

00:37:56   figured out ways to work around the fact [TS]

00:37:57   that the things really had no idea where [TS]

00:37:59   they were in space and they later they [TS]

00:38:01   later updated the base of the whole new [TS]

00:38:03   add-on that supposed to bring yeah that [TS]

00:38:05   one that's built-in now actually and [TS]

00:38:07   that does work a hell of a lot about [TS]

00:38:09   that the ad on the motionplus add-on [TS]

00:38:11   which is now built into the wiimotes [TS]

00:38:12   that you buy that's the way everyone [TS]

00:38:14   thought it worked when they first bought [TS]

00:38:16   the way it is much better yet but they [TS]

00:38:19   get he did the first round i mean the [TS]

00:38:22   the only way that they really sold the [TS]

00:38:25   system was by making wii sports smart [TS]

00:38:27   enough to not really care with the [TS]

00:38:28   control that's well that's part of the [TS]

00:38:31   brilliance of game design I think [TS]

00:38:32   because people just want to have fun [TS]

00:38:33   right and if they don't realize that in [TS]

00:38:35   order to win at this you know bowling [TS]

00:38:37   game you just needed to flicking your [TS]

00:38:39   thing in a certain way because it's [TS]

00:38:40   really just a tilt sensor if they don't [TS]

00:38:42   know that and they go through the whole [TS]

00:38:43   big motion they turn the game so that [TS]

00:38:45   going through a full fledge bowling [TS]

00:38:46   motion [TS]

00:38:47   adults in the correct series of inputs [TS]

00:38:49   to win the game and it's it's easier for [TS]

00:38:51   people to say i'm just going to do my [TS]

00:38:52   bowling motion and then just sit there [TS]

00:38:53   like a gamer and figure out how do i [TS]

00:38:55   have to manipulate these accelerometers [TS]

00:38:56   to win the game right so people just did [TS]

00:38:59   the footballing motion and I think that [TS]

00:39:00   that's just good game design that's [TS]

00:39:01   working within limitations to make a [TS]

00:39:03   game that people find fun you know I see [TS]

00:39:05   that is an interesting parallel to [TS]

00:39:06   something like rock band which is a game [TS]

00:39:08   that you know I played a lot of in the [TS]

00:39:10   last few years in that there I [TS]

00:39:11   definitely know people who are entirely [TS]

00:39:13   focused on playing it to you know like [TS]

00:39:16   perfection and so they'll sit on the [TS]

00:39:19   couch and will be very intent like [TS]

00:39:20   they're all just sort of like pressing [TS]

00:39:21   all the buttons you know the there you [TS]

00:39:22   can see them sort of deep in thought [TS]

00:39:24   about it as opposed to the people who [TS]

00:39:25   will play it by being like you know hey [TS]

00:39:27   let's see where we're rockstars you know [TS]

00:39:29   let's just stand around and and sing in [TS]

00:39:32   and you know play like we're actually in [TS]

00:39:34   a band and maybe that's just different [TS]

00:39:36   approaches to gaming but it is kind of [TS]

00:39:38   an interesting disparity that's always [TS]

00:39:39   intrigued me [TS]

00:39:40   I wonder how long the kinect is going to [TS]

00:39:42   last I mean I realize it's interesting [TS]

00:39:44   to technology and people are doing a lot [TS]

00:39:45   of cool stuff with it just outside of [TS]

00:39:47   gaming but we only got the wii we played [TS]

00:39:51   you know all the wii sports and all the [TS]

00:39:53   swing your arms around stuff and we got [TS]

00:39:54   the little thing that sits on the floor [TS]

00:39:56   that you can step on and it's just kind [TS]

00:39:59   of sat in the corner after the first [TS]

00:40:00   couple of months just because it's [TS]

00:40:03   annoying to get up off the sofa that's [TS]

00:40:06   that's a lot of air that is on the [TS]

00:40:09   reason i like that and I mean I [TS]

00:40:12   understand how getting up and swing your [TS]

00:40:13   arms around and you know the the we [TS]

00:40:16   exercise stuff you can work up a sweat [TS]

00:40:17   but that's not what I do when I'm in [TS]

00:40:20   front of the TV or ever [TS]

00:40:22   I think all these different input things [TS]

00:40:24   we have here like you know we've got [TS]

00:40:26   motion sensors we've got the gyroscopes [TS]

00:40:28   and got cameras who you know all these [TS]

00:40:30   two different things [TS]

00:40:31   these are converging on like it's kind [TS]

00:40:33   of like when we had no telephones were [TS]

00:40:35   just phones and I had cameras in them [TS]

00:40:36   and then they you know had GPS in them [TS]

00:40:38   is like these different forms the input [TS]

00:40:40   well sort of you know be refined and [TS]

00:40:42   converge to the point where it will be [TS]

00:40:44   taken for granted two generations from [TS]

00:40:45   now that all these sensors exist in your [TS]

00:40:47   living room you've got multiple cameras [TS]

00:40:48   multiple microphones you know and you [TS]

00:40:51   can do a lot of interesting things with [TS]

00:40:52   what you're saying is you're living room [TS]

00:40:54   will be a hollow deck that's gonna take [TS]

00:40:56   a while but I'm just like the people are [TS]

00:40:59   going to be debating how do we really [TS]

00:41:00   need [TS]

00:41:01   motion controlled you really need a [TS]

00:41:02   camera pointing at me it's like well duh [TS]

00:41:03   you know every phone has a camera world [TS]

00:41:05   of course my living room has 12 camera [TS]

00:41:07   so we can get me and you know [TS]

00:41:08   quadraphonic stereo scar you don't want [TS]

00:41:10   to use them but yeah they're going to be [TS]

00:41:12   used for everything can be used for [TS]

00:41:13   turning on the TV for changing channels [TS]

00:41:16   for you know selecting for menus and yet [TS]

00:41:18   for playing games because why wouldn't [TS]

00:41:19   you use them for games not exclusively [TS]

00:41:21   for games not big not controllers [TS]

00:41:22   disappear but it's just one more thing [TS]

00:41:24   to add right yeah but i just i get i [TS]

00:41:26   don't find my kids when they play the [TS]

00:41:27   wii now they sit on the sofa they turn [TS]

00:41:29   the controller sideways and they play [TS]

00:41:30   super battle you know Twitter at while [TS]

00:41:34   traditional games have a lot of mr. of [TS]

00:41:36   you know that the traditional games will [TS]

00:41:38   always be there but i think if you if [TS]

00:41:39   you had a traditional game that had for [TS]

00:41:41   example people tracking right you could [TS]

00:41:43   be holding a controller but looking on [TS]

00:41:45   the screen to do stuff with you know it [TS]

00:41:46   to do different things look with your [TS]

00:41:48   eyes change viewpoint or you know a matt [TS]

00:41:50   targeting thing and that's where the [TS]

00:41:52   connected really gets gets interesting [TS]

00:41:54   is because you know you have really your [TS]

00:41:56   first true sort of semi holodeck [TS]

00:41:59   experience when you set up what they [TS]

00:42:02   call your connect ID you've had sex with [TS]

00:42:03   it [TS]

00:42:04   were you in shakespearean times there [TS]

00:42:06   was a the forties going on holiday I [TS]

00:42:10   could take my understanding is every [TS]

00:42:13   time they go into the hundred something [TS]

00:42:14   bad happens [TS]

00:42:15   yeah it's all resolved in the end [TS]

00:42:18   whatever it was that all your games like [TS]

00:42:20   the other connect all your games will [TS]

00:42:22   take 40 minutes and there will be nicely [TS]

00:42:24   wrapped up with the if I went and if i [TS]

00:42:26   had my own holiday the thing would [TS]

00:42:28   constantly be shorting out just from [TS]

00:42:30   fluids flowing fluid and we all do we [TS]

00:42:34   all agree that if if the whole day [TS]

00:42:36   actually existed it would end humanity [TS]

00:42:37   within like easily LOL starcraft can [TS]

00:42:41   kill half of Korea that a holodeck will [TS]

00:42:42   kill the world [TS]

00:42:43   yeah we'd all be dead in the holodeck [TS]

00:42:45   ins starve to death i'm assuming inside [TS]

00:42:47   the whole back within a year and a half [TS]

00:42:49   all humanity the top that's a big [TS]

00:42:51   holiday if individually we can all be [TS]

00:42:54   the same holiday goodbye [TS]

00:42:56   so any high you he gets a compelling [TS]

00:43:02   future gaming but was this podcast about [TS]

00:43:06   the greenbags your damage i want to hear [TS]

00:43:08   about the kinect let's go [TS]

00:43:10   so yeah you can set up this thing called [TS]

00:43:12   you connect ID which is associated with [TS]

00:43:14   your avatar and which which basically [TS]

00:43:16   represents your saved games for for the [TS]

00:43:18   xbox and it involves you moving around [TS]

00:43:23   various places in your living room and [TS]

00:43:24   turn your head slightly and it takes [TS]

00:43:26   various sort of pictures of your face [TS]

00:43:29   subsequent to that you walk into the [TS]

00:43:31   black my daughter was playing [TS]

00:43:33   kinectimals the other day and I happened [TS]

00:43:35   to walk past her on my way to the couch [TS]

00:43:36   and a little thing popped up saying mr. [TS]

00:43:39   Baum biscuit has signed in [TS]

00:43:42   that's nice serving for an audience of [TS]

00:43:44   reasons it's so heavy it is a little [TS]

00:43:47   freakish in in a lot of respect but so [TS]

00:43:50   it's that's that was an interesting [TS]

00:43:51   experience and I think it's part of the [TS]

00:43:53   excitement with the connectors is I [TS]

00:43:55   think people kind of see that we're [TS]

00:44:00   really sort of on the edge of of what [TS]

00:44:01   may end up being holodeck technology [TS]

00:44:03   someday in the future [TS]

00:44:05   well I mean that is there is some really [TS]

00:44:07   interesting stuff going on with all the [TS]

00:44:09   facial detection I know when they first [TS]

00:44:10   showed off the kinect they had that [TS]

00:44:11   whole creepy peter molyneux oh is it out [TS]

00:44:15   yeah a little i can roll with the name [TS]

00:44:17   is Milo Milo right with the little boy [TS]

00:44:19   who lives inside the Xbox ones that will [TS]

00:44:22   have to desperately to be his friend you [TS]

00:44:24   know I understand the economic reasons [TS]

00:44:25   but isn't it weird that all this kind of [TS]

00:44:27   a facial detection and and body tracking [TS]

00:44:30   and is is being developed for games now [TS]

00:44:33   it's being developed for defense as well [TS]

00:44:35   but games always one of those things [TS]

00:44:37   that push the envelope I mean when you [TS]

00:44:38   look at any you know like computers [TS]

00:44:41   during the nineties what I have what [TS]

00:44:42   have you or a games are the things that [TS]

00:44:44   push the processor is faster and the [TS]

00:44:46   graphics cards better and all that right [TS]

00:44:48   because they're always the most [TS]

00:44:49   demanding thing on the system and there [TS]

00:44:51   were no sound cards for pcs Intel gaming [TS]

00:44:54   pushed well things like facial [TS]

00:44:56   recognition or 3d graphics cards or [TS]

00:44:58   memory organization now body tracks like [TS]

00:45:01   facial recognition they had four years [TS]

00:45:02   for you know FBI databases and stuff and [TS]

00:45:04   it takes awhile for the technology to [TS]

00:45:05   scale down to be on consoles and things [TS]

00:45:08   like a gait analysis and other body [TS]

00:45:10   tracking that was a little bit from [TS]

00:45:11   Hollywood you know with motion-control [TS]

00:45:13   and special effects but you need to know [TS]

00:45:14   big rigs lots of computers and [TS]

00:45:16   eventually becomes practical to do that [TS]

00:45:17   with smaller computer so in this respect [TS]

00:45:19   I think [TS]

00:45:19   gaming is getting the hand-me-downs [TS]

00:45:21   unlike graphics were gaming was pushing [TS]

00:45:23   the envelope this in this area game is [TS]

00:45:25   getting the hand-me-downs of other [TS]

00:45:27   industries who did this [TS]

00:45:28   more expensively on government contracts [TS]

00:45:30   with big hardware and now we can do it [TS]

00:45:32   you know on our phones are on anyone [TS]

00:45:34   with the kinect comes with a blue [TS]

00:45:35   bodysuit with ping-pong balls glue all [TS]

00:45:37   over that's the playstation move is the [TS]

00:45:39   move gives you a stick with a ping-pong [TS]

00:45:40   ball on a thread and I like that about [TS]

00:45:43   the move because that's proven [TS]

00:45:44   technology like ball-and-stick works now [TS]

00:45:48   we're getting back to the kind of games [TS]

00:45:49   that your dad used to play answer is [TS]

00:45:52   that one the ball you have to catch it [TS]

00:45:53   on the stick on the move is already [TS]

00:45:54   there it's stuck there but you've [TS]

00:45:56   already watched there's no challenge [TS]

00:45:57   involved in that [TS]

00:45:59   where's the honor well makes me wonder [TS]

00:46:00   what other technologies are going to [TS]

00:46:02   trickle down a well we all be flying [TS]

00:46:03   Predator drones around in my playing [TS]

00:46:05   games with the who's in like two years [TS]

00:46:07   oh man really was gonna be great so [TS]

00:46:08   messy well if it connects proven [TS]

00:46:11   anything it's that the technology has a [TS]

00:46:13   long way to go i mean you do i will say [TS]

00:46:15   it works about as well as the we did on [TS]

00:46:18   launch in terms of its ability to track [TS]

00:46:21   you and it is very very cool you know [TS]

00:46:24   when it's implemented properly in the [TS]

00:46:25   games like I think that the standout [TS]

00:46:28   title for the connected launch was was I [TS]

00:46:31   think somebody mentioned dance central [TS]

00:46:32   which is amazingly fun if you don't mind [TS]

00:46:36   flailing about ridiculously in your [TS]

00:46:37   living room for you know the [TS]

00:46:39   embarrassment the embarrassment factor [TS]

00:46:41   for the entertainment of your friends [TS]

00:46:43   and neighbors and that's an example of [TS]

00:46:45   using the Kinect technology on the low [TS]

00:46:48   end like this that connects can do tons [TS]

00:46:49   of stuff but all dance central is doing [TS]

00:46:51   his edge detection and catching your [TS]

00:46:52   silhouette so let's don't like the way [TS]

00:46:54   of the way you well know that could [TS]

00:46:56   connect can also do depth in to see how [TS]

00:46:58   far you know it can do it [TS]

00:46:59   it was a depth map of like how far your [TS]

00:47:01   hands are in front of your behind you [TS]

00:47:02   but the but the dance central [TS]

00:47:04   specifically issues all the connects [TS]

00:47:07   technology except for edge detection [TS]

00:47:08   which is really simple you know image [TS]

00:47:10   algorithms that's what makes it [TS]

00:47:11   responsive and that's what makes it you [TS]

00:47:13   know sort of more reliable than we're [TS]

00:47:14   trying to track your limbs in 3d space [TS]

00:47:16   when they're also not expecting an [TS]

00:47:19   immediate real-time response to your [TS]

00:47:22   movements [TS]

00:47:22   I mean it's it it's set up in such a way [TS]

00:47:25   that you're not actually looking at an [TS]

00:47:26   image of yourself on the screen you're [TS]

00:47:27   looking at right haven't screwed answer [TS]

00:47:29   and and as you're moving around you know [TS]

00:47:32   it has time to x [TS]

00:47:33   we figure out what it is that you're [TS]

00:47:34   doing before it has to put it up on the [TS]

00:47:35   screen that you've screwed up your right [TS]

00:47:37   leg or whatever [TS]

00:47:38   probably the biggest downside of the [TS]

00:47:40   kinect is the fact that it takes such a [TS]

00:47:43   huge amount of space in order for you [TS]

00:47:45   actually play the games mean if you live [TS]

00:47:47   in a small concert hall you're in good [TS]

00:47:48   shape but I can't really foresee it [TS]

00:47:51   selling well in Japan or anywhere else [TS]

00:47:53   where people live in these little shoe [TS]

00:47:54   boxes is that I mean you have to move [TS]

00:47:56   the coffee table [TS]

00:47:58   the couch no you're the retaining wall [TS]

00:48:01   of your house and only then do you have [TS]

00:48:04   enough room that you're not you're [TS]

00:48:05   standing on your son on the couch so you [TS]

00:48:08   know it does have its problems but [TS]

00:48:09   definitely an interesting tech and and [TS]

00:48:12   the games are surprisingly fun for which [TS]

00:48:14   is which is more than i was expecting to [TS]

00:48:16   be honest I like to put a plug in as [TS]

00:48:19   long as we're you know talking about [TS]

00:48:20   these innovative technologies there are [TS]

00:48:22   some really good even among those [TS]

00:48:24   triple-a titles that are that are [TS]

00:48:25   somewhat derivative I find every once in [TS]

00:48:27   a while they're there are a couple that [TS]

00:48:30   they do really interesting and new [TS]

00:48:31   things and this week I've been playing [TS]

00:48:33   just started playing this new game [TS]

00:48:35   assassin's creed brotherhood which I [TS]

00:48:37   have not played a single bit of the [TS]

00:48:39   single player for but the the [TS]

00:48:40   multiplayer is fascinating and I think [TS]

00:48:43   it was most simply described by one of [TS]

00:48:46   the guys at penny arcade as you ever [TS]

00:48:48   play the game assassins when you're in [TS]

00:48:50   high school which is basically had a [TS]

00:48:52   group of friends and you know you [TS]

00:48:54   basically the game involved every person [TS]

00:48:56   got like a target among the group around [TS]

00:48:58   and you had you got like a plastic spoon [TS]

00:49:00   or something you had to like go up and [TS]

00:49:02   like stab them with the spoon and dinner [TS]

00:49:04   and then you collect on their target you [TS]

00:49:05   would inherit sort of whoever they were [TS]

00:49:08   supposed to kill well [TS]

00:49:09   Assassin's Creed it kind of has a [TS]

00:49:11   multiplayer that that sort of like this [TS]

00:49:12   and it's it's a fascinating twists on a [TS]

00:49:15   lot of the typical first-person shooters [TS]

00:49:17   because unlike those which really rely [TS]

00:49:19   on twitch gaming and and reflexes and [TS]

00:49:23   that kind of stuff [TS]

00:49:24   Assassin's Creed kind of makes you fight [TS]

00:49:26   all those instincts basically you're [TS]

00:49:29   dropped into a map with that is [TS]

00:49:32   populated entirely with a finite number [TS]

00:49:34   of character models say H or something [TS]

00:49:37   so everybody on the map and there's a [TS]

00:49:40   decent number of people on the map looks [TS]

00:49:41   like one of these eight characters [TS]

00:49:43   there's multiple versions of all of them [TS]

00:49:44   and so each player is all [TS]

00:49:47   so one of those characters in your [TS]

00:49:48   you're told to assassinate you know one [TS]

00:49:50   of the other characters but they look [TS]

00:49:52   like any number of people on the map so [TS]

00:49:54   somehow you have to figure out you're [TS]

00:49:56   talking about high-tech stratego here it [TS]

00:49:58   sounds like it's very asker's day [TS]

00:50:00   because you have to walk around sort of [TS]

00:50:02   slowly and blend in the strategy is to [TS]

00:50:04   play like an artificial intelligence and [TS]

00:50:06   and that's it's very very strange but [TS]

00:50:09   it's really effective because you'll be [TS]

00:50:11   walking through this crowd you're trying [TS]

00:50:12   you don't want to run or anything that [TS]

00:50:14   will draw attention to you and someone [TS]

00:50:16   will brush value and you'll you'll have [TS]

00:50:18   that split second where you're like me [TS]

00:50:19   something about that guy was not quite [TS]

00:50:21   right and then they just stab you in the [TS]

00:50:22   back I like it as a candidate it's you [TS]

00:50:27   know there have been a stealth action [TS]

00:50:28   games for a long time the previous [TS]

00:50:29   Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell and [TS]

00:50:32   feeds and things like that we're like in [TS]

00:50:33   a very simple mechanic were like you [TS]

00:50:35   know if you move slower you won't arouse [TS]

00:50:38   the the attention of guards around you [TS]

00:50:40   but I like this that now that it's not [TS]

00:50:41   like you know you're moving too fast or [TS]

00:50:43   not like red light green light but like [TS]

00:50:45   you are moving in a way that will be [TS]

00:50:47   preceded by a human has a regular or not [TS]

00:50:49   it's a reverse Turing test [TS]

00:50:51   yeah exactly it is a reverse reminded of [TS]

00:50:54   the second episode of the walking dead [TS]

00:50:56   have you any BS anything up on that [TS]

00:50:58   that's a different podcast that we're [TS]

00:51:00   saving that for the end this is the [TS]

00:51:02   beauty of playing with other people [TS]

00:51:03   though because that experience that you [TS]

00:51:05   had their with dan with other people [TS]

00:51:07   you couldn't have had nothing to do with [TS]

00:51:08   the computers there's no no absolutely [TS]

00:51:10   not [TS]

00:51:10   this gate yeah it does not work without [TS]

00:51:12   that and really it works best when you [TS]

00:51:14   have a certain number of people [TS]

00:51:15   otherwise it gets just too easy to [TS]

00:51:17   figure out but it was it was a [TS]

00:51:19   fascinating experience from coming from [TS]

00:51:20   a lot of games where it's like the goal [TS]

00:51:22   is you know you gotta run really fast [TS]

00:51:23   you gotta shoot somebody a lot you know [TS]

00:51:25   and then you gotta try to get away [TS]

00:51:27   where is this one it's really about [TS]

00:51:29   blending in and fighting those instincts [TS]

00:51:31   to do anything that's going to get you [TS]

00:51:32   there faster and in fact there are a lot [TS]

00:51:34   of people you run into online who do [TS]

00:51:35   take that approach of like I'm gonna run [TS]

00:51:37   really fast and try to kill everybody [TS]

00:51:38   and get killed you and you don't get [TS]

00:51:40   rewarded for either they're gonna [TS]

00:51:42   questions [TS]

00:51:43   well i'm gonna i'm going to defend my [TS]

00:51:45   the the traditional gaming and they do [TS]

00:51:47   at the top levels traditional [TS]

00:51:49   first-person gaming at you know where [TS]

00:51:51   you think i was at which game you run [TS]

00:51:53   really fast and shoot everybody you have [TS]

00:51:54   to play that strategically if you try to [TS]

00:51:57   play like run around should everybody [TS]

00:51:58   you will not be able to [TS]

00:52:00   with you know reasonably good players [TS]

00:52:02   it's a strategic game in terms of [TS]

00:52:03   territory and power up control and not [TS]

00:52:06   just running into fights that you can't [TS]

00:52:08   win that's what separates you know the [TS]

00:52:09   the the top tier players from just 0 [TS]

00:52:13   units from the thirty-year-old great [TS]

00:52:15   president but the 12 year olds learn [TS]

00:52:17   this it's amazing like this you have to [TS]

00:52:19   know the territory make you know sort of [TS]

00:52:21   defending the turf that has the power [TS]

00:52:22   ups and not engage in fights that you're [TS]

00:52:24   going to lose it becomes like a senior [TS]

00:52:25   sort of Sun Tzu art of war type of thing [TS]

00:52:27   it looks crazy and twitchy and you do [TS]

00:52:29   need the crazy fast reflexes which is [TS]

00:52:31   why we still get our butts handed to us [TS]

00:52:32   by 12 girls because their reflexes are [TS]

00:52:34   just better than 30 year olds right but [TS]

00:52:36   there is that other element lurking [TS]

00:52:39   underneath all types of gameplay [TS]

00:52:40   yeah I will second as somebody who's had [TS]

00:52:42   you know been beaten by a number of [TS]

00:52:44   twelve-year-olds is definitely it's [TS]

00:52:48   there's there's a lot more to the game [TS]

00:52:50   that like i was saying before the there [TS]

00:52:51   you sometimes you suddenly figure out a [TS]

00:52:53   certain point like whoa there's like a [TS]

00:52:55   whole nother level like exponential have [TS]

00:52:57   a lot of the game than what I am [TS]

00:52:58   perceiving and I met and that has [TS]

00:53:00   doesn't have much to do the reflexes as [TS]

00:53:02   it does with you know understanding the [TS]

00:53:04   strategy mechanics again what's the best [TS]

00:53:06   way to play this and it even if it looks [TS]

00:53:07   like just a random shooting spring it's [TS]

00:53:09   not i used to play battlefield two and [TS]

00:53:12   it was a great game it was the first [TS]

00:53:13   massive multiplayer game i played and [TS]

00:53:15   you could assemble into squads and there [TS]

00:53:17   would be a squad leader who would [TS]

00:53:18   determine your your strategic approach [TS]

00:53:21   to a particular target and I loved on [TS]

00:53:23   one night and join the squad and the [TS]

00:53:25   squad leader was issuing the red radio [TS]

00:53:28   silence des and so we're sneaking up on [TS]

00:53:30   a particular target was spreading people [TS]

00:53:31   out and assigning them their jobs [TS]

00:53:33   according to the book character class [TS]

00:53:35   they were playing and and so everybody [TS]

00:53:38   was in position and waited and waited [TS]

00:53:39   and finally came time to go [TS]

00:53:41   and this this 11 year old voices ok [TS]

00:53:43   everybody him i have had that experience [TS]

00:53:47   as well especially after in the old we [TS]

00:53:49   used to play halo before xbox microsoft [TS]

00:53:51   came up with this party system which [TS]

00:53:53   meant you didn't have to talk to [TS]

00:53:54   strangers on the internet you would have [TS]

00:53:55   a brief second at the end of a halo [TS]

00:53:57   match like maybe about 10 or 20 seconds [TS]

00:53:59   where people with the real and they were [TS]

00:54:01   just school is always liked the year old [TS]

00:54:03   kids the most racist homophobic angriest [TS]

00:54:07   12 your kids class [TS]

00:54:08   rap music that you've ever heard so all [TS]

00:54:11   12 year olds can also apparently I [TS]

00:54:13   didn't know 12 girls are like that but [TS]

00:54:14   man it was a little disheartened am it [TS]

00:54:16   was just hurting both of the state of [TS]

00:54:17   society as well as the fact that we just [TS]

00:54:19   gotten really badly beaten by them [TS]

00:54:21   yeah well I mean we're getting close [TS]

00:54:23   towards the end of our are allotted time [TS]

00:54:25   here but i want to know if there's [TS]

00:54:26   anything in particular you guys want to [TS]

00:54:28   recommend I mean whether it be a higher [TS]

00:54:30   level title or something more like a [TS]

00:54:32   mobile game or anything even a classic [TS]

00:54:34   game any any suggestions [TS]

00:54:37   sorry old game old game Greg I've got a [TS]

00:54:39   lot of a lot of games that i'm playing [TS]

00:54:41   but enough in there are novel recommend [TS]

00:54:42   a man who wants to recommend like you [TS]

00:54:44   cut the rope is really good well you [TS]

00:54:45   know everybody knows that [TS]

00:54:47   well yeah have you tried this Angry [TS]

00:54:48   Birds thing I hear there's there's birds [TS]

00:54:52   in there they're angry i'm going to put [TS]

00:54:54   in a plug for on reliving your gaming [TS]

00:54:56   pass through your children which is what [TS]

00:54:58   i'm doing now I will simply have soon [TS]

00:55:01   everybody [TS]

00:55:02   yeah step step one it's a long road but [TS]

00:55:04   like have children ultimately work here [TS]

00:55:05   and if you're an avid gamer you've [TS]

00:55:07   already failed all right you will not [TS]

00:55:10   pass step one if you're a regular gamer [TS]

00:55:12   sorry [TS]

00:55:13   well this is like trying to play games i [TS]

00:55:16   wouldn't go back and play these games on [TS]

00:55:17   my own but going back letting my son [TS]

00:55:19   play through them is you know is an [TS]

00:55:21   interesting experience and it does help [TS]

00:55:24   me appreciate the games that i enjoyed [TS]

00:55:25   you know when I was a little bit younger [TS]

00:55:26   seeing someone else experienced them for [TS]

00:55:28   the first time I think that's it dude I [TS]

00:55:31   think classic video games are like the [TS]

00:55:33   Hugo's list is you can go back and and [TS]

00:55:35   read something that's been on the hero [TS]

00:55:37   since the mid sixties and it still blows [TS]

00:55:39   you away and i think that if you're if [TS]

00:55:41   you're willing to put up with you know [TS]

00:55:43   not having a beautiful you know shadow [TS]

00:55:46   rendered graphics on an xbox 360 that [TS]

00:55:49   you can still enjoy something like [TS]

00:55:51   deadline which is an amazing game or or [TS]

00:55:54   chocolate cafe or mule it new label [TS]

00:55:58   every once in a while did Archon murder [TS]

00:56:01   on this in turn off their they are all [TS]

00:56:03   there are literally thousands of [TS]

00:56:06   terrific games out there and and they're [TS]

00:56:08   not going to be the experience that they [TS]

00:56:10   are today but they are still unique and [TS]

00:56:12   pleasurable experiences [TS]

00:56:14   well there's something to saying that [TS]

00:56:15   it's not just the technology that makes [TS]

00:56:16   the game fun right i mean my few years [TS]

00:56:18   ago I think they were still in ecology [TS]

00:56:20   and we've my friends I found a virgin [TS]

00:56:22   know your place scorched-earth classic [TS]

00:56:24   toss game with tanks basically the [TS]

00:56:27   progenitor of things like worms [TS]

00:56:28   you've got a lot of Tanks you sort of [TS]

00:56:30   have to figure out the altitude of you [TS]

00:56:32   know an angle that you're going to fire [TS]

00:56:34   your tank your your gun on your turn [TS]

00:56:36   ahead and see if you managed to hit [TS]

00:56:38   somebody else and if not it's someone [TS]

00:56:39   else's turn and then you just learn to [TS]

00:56:41   sort of figured out by trial and error [TS]

00:56:42   and we found a java-based version of [TS]

00:56:44   this online and we played it like [TS]

00:56:45   non-stop for like two months and it was [TS]

00:56:48   just it was intensely entertaining even [TS]

00:56:50   though it was like 1984 graphics so I [TS]

00:56:53   think there's more to examine the [TS]

00:56:54   technology is really interesting and I [TS]

00:56:55   think technology is part of what drives [TS]

00:56:57   games for it but at the end of the end [TS]

00:56:59   of the day I think it really depends [TS]

00:57:00   more on on a good game is a good game [TS]

00:57:02   exactly there's a certain amount of [TS]

00:57:04   technology that has to be there I mean I [TS]

00:57:05   I bust out the emulators fairly [TS]

00:57:07   frequently and i find that as finely as [TS]

00:57:10   i remember the old atari 2600 games [TS]

00:57:13   you just can't play them for more than a [TS]

00:57:14   minute and a half anymore you just can't [TS]

00:57:16   I mean either looking at squares being [TS]

00:57:19   eaten by the vaguely oblong dragons you [TS]

00:57:22   know using an arrow for a so don't you [TS]

00:57:24   disadvantage her man I'll come over [TS]

00:57:25   there and kick your ass if you have you [TS]

00:57:27   checked i love adventure dearly but man [TS]

00:57:29   you just can't play anymore although i [TS]

00:57:31   will say that one of the most in like [TS]

00:57:33   intense gaming experiences I've ever had [TS]

00:57:35   was being at the the penny arcade expo [TS]

00:57:37   combat yeah second or third year and it [TS]

00:57:39   came down to they have this Omega on [TS]

00:57:41   where they compete and have a bunch of [TS]

00:57:43   people that compete in various different [TS]

00:57:44   games throughout like several different [TS]

00:57:45   rounds and the final round was a [TS]

00:57:47   one-on-one showdown with the guitar game [TS]

00:57:49   combat in one arena of like 400,000 [TS]

00:57:53   people probably alternatively little [TS]

00:57:55   square square [TS]

00:57:57   let's hear no you're not you're not [TS]

00:57:59   relying on the technology to provide the [TS]

00:58:00   entertainment you're alone on the fact [TS]

00:58:02   you're playing another human rights [TS]

00:58:04   lawyer you're watching this epic match [TS]

00:58:06   between these two guys trying to decide [TS]

00:58:08   who takes home this huge bundle prizes [TS]

00:58:09   or whatever it was definitely [TS]

00:58:10   entertaining but yes I don't know that I [TS]

00:58:12   acted briefly we had a party at a [TS]

00:58:15   friend's house one night where we broke [TS]

00:58:16   out the Atari and played combat and man [TS]

00:58:18   once we got it working [TS]

00:58:19   you gotta blow the cartridges and [TS]

00:58:21   everything [TS]

00:58:22   yeah i can still play a mean warlords [TS]

00:58:25   there's a yeah I have a shoebox of those [TS]

00:58:28   Atari titles or one time that we're just [TS]

00:58:30   gathering dust and we just try each one [TS]

00:58:32   of them until we found that would work [TS]

00:58:33   and then we play that so you know [TS]

00:58:36   eg it is don't play that game is so bad [TS]

00:58:42   now you can get a free one out in the [TS]

00:58:43   Las Vegas area desert after the guy who [TS]

00:58:47   made us really inducing about that [TS]

00:58:50   well sadly he's not here to defend [TS]

00:58:52   itself i actually like dt i'm going to [TS]

00:58:55   go on knowing that you know how to play [TS]

00:58:56   it [TS]

00:58:57   oh yeah I finished it that's one [TS]

00:58:59   possible that you start with saying it [TS]

00:59:01   that's your winning team you know what [TS]

00:59:04   that means the way purpose wish to was [TS]

00:59:07   trying to say the only winning move is [TS]

00:59:08   not the play is thank you [TS]

00:59:11   we might want to end it on that maybe [TS]

00:59:13   that is a good place to end it so I [TS]

00:59:15   thanks everybody for joining us and I [TS]

00:59:17   think all of our contributors this week [TS]

00:59:19   Greg moss thank you Steve lots [TS]

00:59:22   it's been real John siracusa goodnight [TS]

00:59:25   everybody [TS]

00:59:26   Tony's alive whew and I am your guest [TS]

00:59:29   host and more than sitting in for [TS]

00:59:31   Jason's now who will probably be back [TS]

00:59:32   next time thanks for joining us again it [TS]

00:59:35   had everybody hey [TS]

00:59:42   this has been the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:59:44   there's no sadly and comfortable time [TS]

00:59:52   you can we need to do more of that like [TS]

00:59:54   that thing where you take the outtakes [TS]

00:59:55   and you throw them at the end after the [TS]

00:59:57   music that once or twice going to war [TS]

00:59:59   that [TS]

00:59:59   that [TS]

01:00:00   let me to say increasingly outrageous [TS]

01:00:02   things before we actually start so that [TS]

01:00:04   you can you know pick and choose the [TS]

01:00:06   ridiculous things to come on the end-all [TS]

01:00:08   doing throw and yeah what the hell is a [TS]

01:00:11   thing no practice pressure because these [TS]

01:00:14   units in LIC look so easy when Jason [TS]

01:00:16   doesn't start walking month wow wow [TS]

01:00:20   well this is not here to run things so i [TS]

01:00:22   guess that falls to me which is kinda [TS]

01:00:23   weird but yeah I'm freaked out a little [TS]

01:00:26   bit right now and he's my boss so I do [TS]

01:00:28   whatever he tells you realize you can [TS]

01:00:30   create any reason that he's not showing [TS]

01:00:31   up [TS]

01:00:32   that is a good point that you have many [TS]

01:00:34   options yeah I'm information snail whose [TS]

01:00:37   in rehab this nice i mean he probably [TS]

01:00:40   will get to edit it before it actually [TS]

01:00:42   goes up on the website so you think he's [TS]

01:00:45   actually gonna add at this just takes [TS]

01:00:48   the beginning and the end off and tax [TS]

01:00:49   the music on what was his excuse anyways [TS]

01:00:51   its uses that he knows nothing about [TS]

01:00:53   video games something I think that was [TS]

01:00:55   pretty much it i didn't know anything [TS]

01:00:56   about hormones anybody that one and then [TS]

01:00:58   a different sort of ship here I don't [TS]

01:01:00   know it smells been coddling you guys [TS]

01:01:03   this is gonna be hard hitting [TS]