The Incomparable

12: He Who Controls Mr. Peanut Controls the World


00:00:07   the incomparable podcast episode 12 [TS]

00:00:11   November 2010 [TS]

00:00:14   we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:17   after a little brief mini hiatus because [TS]

00:00:20   i was lazy i'm jason l i'm your host [TS]

00:00:25   today and joining me are three repeaters [TS]

00:00:29   as we call them in the business like the [TS]

00:00:32   Ghostbusters called the repeaters when [TS]

00:00:34   the ghost would come back these [TS]

00:00:36   repeating phantasms are John siracusa [TS]

00:00:38   good evening good evening [TS]

00:00:41   serenity Caldwell ran how you doing I'm [TS]

00:00:44   doing great how are you Jason I am awake [TS]

00:00:47   and alive and vertical and that's all I [TS]

00:00:52   can you know hope for really at this [TS]

00:00:54   point in my life to get because I'm an [TS]

00:00:55   old man and eight really goes without [TS]

00:00:58   saying that they had more and it's also [TS]

00:01:00   hundreds podcast I'm thinking we should [TS]

00:01:02   call it the I think this edition should [TS]

00:01:03   be being comfortable after dark it is [TS]

00:01:06   we're recording this later than usual [TS]

00:01:08   much later [TS]

00:01:09   that's right we're at the Playboy [TS]

00:01:11   Mansion and sadly sadly we're at our [TS]

00:01:15   homes alone with only a microphone for [TS]

00:01:20   comfort [TS]

00:01:21   that's basically every night for me [TS]

00:01:23   really do you fall asleep with cradling [TS]

00:01:27   your microfiber it's a blue snowball [TS]

00:01:29   it's really it's very it's very [TS]

00:01:30   comforting [TS]

00:01:31   I'm creating holding back the jokes [TS]

00:01:33   incredibly my blue snowball right now in [TS]

00:01:35   fact you know that sturdy or if you go [TS]

00:01:38   hey do you like it [TS]

00:01:41   I was trying to hold back above that [TS]

00:01:43   last pic simple fix it in post [TS]

00:01:46   yeah I get that right out like i edited [TS]

00:01:48   out that 30 seconds of silence in the [TS]

00:01:50   last podcast got pregnant i plan on [TS]

00:01:52   trying to subtly stretch out my silences [TS]

00:01:54   every episode until we actually get to [TS]

00:01:57   an episode which I have like 35 minutes [TS]

00:01:58   of silence [TS]

00:01:59   I think it's telling that I'm you [TS]

00:02:01   basically stopped talking and nobody [TS]

00:02:02   noticed [TS]

00:02:03   yeah but apparently didn't keep talking [TS]

00:02:05   either did you well no we were really [TS]

00:02:07   focused on what you weren't saying [TS]

00:02:08   obviously the subtle nuances of what I [TS]

00:02:11   don't say that's really the most into [TS]

00:02:13   spaces between the words really that [TS]

00:02:14   important [TS]

00:02:16   yes learn that from harold pinter [TS]

00:02:17   speaking of harold pinter know [TS]

00:02:20   excellent thank God our job here in [TS]

00:02:23   Mexico and the jobs here Harold Pinter [TS]

00:02:26   is our topic today know [TS]

00:02:28   now there's an anti Harold Pinter that [TS]

00:02:29   is a guy's different podcast yes we are [TS]

00:02:32   going to talk about Joss Whedon today [TS]

00:02:34   and now you know I i find it interesting [TS]

00:02:36   he actually is an interesting uh [TS]

00:02:39   interesting figure because he has a [TS]

00:02:41   hardcore fanbase that quite frankly i'm [TS]

00:02:47   often embarrassed to be associated with [TS]

00:02:48   innocence that I think that he's quite [TS]

00:02:50   good and has done some of the best TV [TS]

00:02:53   that's been made and yet that the fans [TS]

00:02:55   are so rapid that I'm actually a little [TS]

00:02:57   embarrassed sometimes to admit that yes [TS]

00:02:59   I i do things like we fine brothers I go [TS]

00:03:02   ahead [TS]

00:03:02   it is there like a your find a corollary [TS]

00:03:05   between as and you know i'm not that I [TS]

00:03:07   necessarily want Delta too much into are [TS]

00:03:09   you know professional lives but your [TS]

00:03:11   find a corollary between being [TS]

00:03:12   associated as a joss whedon fan of being [TS]

00:03:14   associated as an apple and he knows [TS]

00:03:16   honestly there's i think is very similar [TS]

00:03:18   in many ways on people accuse you of [TS]

00:03:20   being a cultist that's true that's true [TS]

00:03:22   i find i find Apple fans to generally be [TS]

00:03:26   less crazy than joss whedon fans but [TS]

00:03:29   there's no opposition for waiting fans [TS]

00:03:30   that right like if you're an apple fan [TS]

00:03:32   there's an opposition has always been an [TS]

00:03:34   opposition was the pc got as now as the [TS]

00:03:35   android guys right there's no there's no [TS]

00:03:37   anti weeding right there are other [TS]

00:03:39   people who don't like it's starting [TS]

00:03:40   that's the thing is like in those people [TS]

00:03:42   who don't like him [TS]

00:03:43   it's not people and everything just like [TS]

00:03:44   it's like it's like apathy like apathy [TS]

00:03:47   like they don't you know there are [TS]

00:03:48   people there are people who are who are [TS]

00:03:49   actively and who doesn't like yeah but [TS]

00:03:51   listen I know I know I don't buy it but [TS]

00:03:53   it's it i think it's the same sort of [TS]

00:03:55   knee-jerk like if anybody if it if they [TS]

00:03:58   could talk about it this much and like [TS]

00:04:00   hype it up that much it can't be good [TS]

00:04:02   and so they just take the knee-jerk [TS]

00:04:03   reaction that in myself but it's not the [TS]

00:04:05   same as ever there's no like moss [TS]

00:04:07   bleedin who has no on an alternate at [TS]

00:04:11   work but I got sucks up a bit excited [TS]

00:04:13   accept any show they don't curate it all [TS]

00:04:16   just any show ended he makes gets on the [TS]

00:04:18   air [TS]

00:04:18   yeah i know most bleeding his what else [TS]

00:04:21   clearances on it friday nights at nine [TS]

00:04:23   o'clock there's Larry the zombie killer [TS]

00:04:25   Larry the subculture no one give the [TS]

00:04:29   church and it was underrated so so just [TS]

00:04:33   waiting I'm interesting you know he [TS]

00:04:34   started out he really made his name with [TS]

00:04:36   buffy the vampire slayer on the WB [TS]

00:04:40   network [TS]

00:04:40   witches dead is a vampire now and [TS]

00:04:44   although i think your face will have a [TS]

00:04:45   website has been nice [TS]

00:04:47   I mean vampires are undead that's what I [TS]

00:04:49   think be the WB is technically better [TS]

00:04:51   than that [TS]

00:04:51   well it again into the CW so it's kind [TS]

00:04:55   of undead flesh of its former self [TS]

00:04:57   so so and then he went on to a buffy [TS]

00:04:59   spin-off angel and just to recap the [TS]

00:05:02   career and then from there he he created [TS]

00:05:06   a short-lived Fox sci-fi series called [TS]

00:05:10   firefly which spawned a movie sort of [TS]

00:05:14   wrap up called serenity [TS]

00:05:16   yes interesting i'll make the obligatory [TS]

00:05:20   joke now and then and then I I have to [TS]

00:05:25   remind myself then he made a show on Fox [TS]

00:05:26   called dollhouse which don't don't [TS]

00:05:29   forget a doctor horrible to in there and [TS]

00:05:31   and yes dr. horrible's sing-along blog [TS]

00:05:32   the hour-long kind of web special [TS]

00:05:35   musical which was I thought was [TS]

00:05:37   excellent so so lots and lots of stuff [TS]

00:05:39   and now he's sort of doing doing film [TS]

00:05:42   and he's done some comics is Buffy [TS]

00:05:43   Season eight the ass [TS]

00:05:46   what was it a star fishing x-men think [TS]

00:05:49   so some other stuff like that so he's [TS]

00:05:51   all over the place he's currently I [TS]

00:05:53   think writing and directing the avengers [TS]

00:05:55   movie for Marvel which any wrote cabin [TS]

00:05:59   in the woods which is coming out the [TS]

00:06:01   weird horror but not a whore I think [TS]

00:06:04   they're going rainy Asquith it is the [TS]

00:06:06   rumor I don't know much about it [TS]

00:06:08   I don't follow horror movies but yes [TS]

00:06:10   we'll ask our horror movie guys about [TS]

00:06:13   that one when it comes out and of course [TS]

00:06:14   we're talking earlier if you go back [TS]

00:06:17   before [TS]

00:06:18   Buffy and of course there was about the [TS]

00:06:19   movie in the early nineties with Chrissy [TS]

00:06:21   swims up with he also had a pretty good [TS]

00:06:25   career as a script doctor in Hollywood [TS]

00:06:27   indeed worked on Toy Story x-men aliens [TS]

00:06:32   for okay yeah you know there is a good [TS]

00:06:35   it's a bad well he tell he tells some [TS]

00:06:37   good stories about there are some it [TS]

00:06:38   started out really how the alien [TS]

00:06:40   resurrection was how he hated the [TS]

00:06:42   director and the director kept changing [TS]

00:06:44   things that made no sense and then we'd [TS]

00:06:47   go to him and say okay now i need to you [TS]

00:06:48   to change this other scene so it makes [TS]

00:06:50   sense again and like and it's a good [TS]

00:06:53   thing it's a good thing that guide [TS]

00:06:54   going to do anything else no wait uh [TS]

00:06:57   yeah in fact toy story he had an Oscar [TS]

00:07:01   nomination because he's credited for the [TS]

00:07:02   screenplay for that although i don't [TS]

00:07:04   know how much of that work was actually [TS]

00:07:06   his in the end because that's such a [TS]

00:07:08   huge sir factory although i know that [TS]

00:07:11   the line we need more monkeys as their [TS]

00:07:13   unspooling the barrel of monkeys [TS]

00:07:15   I believe that was his as was wine the [TS]

00:07:17   frog and I think of the x-men lines he [TS]

00:07:22   was responsible for one of my favorite [TS]

00:07:24   lines in that entire movie which is the [TS]

00:07:26   scene where at where Wolverine you know [TS]

00:07:31   they're wandering around and they've got [TS]

00:07:32   the shapeshifter among them and Cyclops [TS]

00:07:34   is to worry wait how do I know you're [TS]

00:07:35   the world real Wolverine woman says [TS]

00:07:37   you're a dick [TS]

00:07:38   I think it's ok it's a great life [TS]

00:07:42   yeah so so what's interesting here is [TS]

00:07:45   that we've got I think two people who [TS]

00:07:47   are late convert stew being interested [TS]

00:07:50   in joss whedon and that's ren and John [TS]

00:07:52   and then dan and I kind of start further [TS]

00:07:56   back damn did you watch Buffy when it [TS]

00:07:58   was originally on i think i picked up [TS]

00:08:01   watching it regularly in about season [TS]

00:08:04   three I start I mean I saw [TS]

00:08:06   intermittently I saw seasons 1 into a [TS]

00:08:09   few episodes here and there but I don't [TS]

00:08:10   think I really sort of full-fledged took [TS]

00:08:13   off into it until about season three and [TS]

00:08:16   then I went back later of course and [TS]

00:08:17   backfilled I've seen I think I've seen [TS]

00:08:19   the entire series I may have missed an [TS]

00:08:22   episode in season seven here or there [TS]

00:08:24   but i'm pretty sure I've seen the entire [TS]

00:08:25   thing [TS]

00:08:26   yeah yeah i remember i actually was home [TS]

00:08:30   my wife is taking a class and so she was [TS]

00:08:32   choosing could be home to late night I [TS]

00:08:34   was at home and and I turned on the TV [TS]

00:08:36   and buffy the vampire slayer was on my [TS]

00:08:40   didn't even intend to watch it and that [TS]

00:08:42   was a long time ago now and i started [TS]

00:08:44   watching it and was the two-hour pilot [TS]

00:08:46   and just by luck and i watched started [TS]

00:08:49   about 20 minutes in and was a was a [TS]

00:08:52   midseason in 97 [TS]

00:08:54   yeah they shot the first 13 episodes I [TS]

00:08:56   think about whole first season before [TS]

00:08:58   any of them erred because it aired in [TS]

00:09:00   january i think [TS]

00:09:02   yep and so they didn't know what would [TS]

00:09:05   happen and they could they figured it [TS]

00:09:06   would probably just run [TS]

00:09:07   then be done so that's one of the [TS]

00:09:09   reasons why what became sort of a [TS]

00:09:10   trademark for JA sweetness that he [TS]

00:09:11   actually had closure at the end of the [TS]

00:09:14   seasons instead of cliffhangers which i [TS]

00:09:15   think with Buffy which was really [TS]

00:09:17   interesting but I i got to the end of it [TS]

00:09:20   and then I pick my wife up at the train [TS]

00:09:21   station after her she was getting back [TS]

00:09:23   for her class and I said you know I [TS]

00:09:24   watched buffy the vampire show and it [TS]

00:09:25   was actually but it was good and and [TS]

00:09:29   that was it we actually watch the pilot [TS]

00:09:31   and she watching for the first time when [TS]

00:09:32   they replayed over the weekend and [TS]

00:09:33   surprisingly intelligent show and you [TS]

00:09:39   know I I will you know i'll fight for [TS]

00:09:41   that show is one of the best shows ever [TS]

00:09:42   made actually I i think that's a [TS]

00:09:44   fantastic piece of work although in the [TS]

00:09:46   end it's got some real ups and downs as [TS]

00:09:49   it went along I think that the first [TS]

00:09:51   season is really low budget they're [TS]

00:09:53   finding their feet which all shot on [TS]

00:09:55   like the first two seasons were shot in [TS]

00:09:57   16-millimeter film so they're really [TS]

00:09:59   kind of grainy and the special effects [TS]

00:10:01   are cheap and but the writing is really [TS]

00:10:03   sharp the second season the drama the [TS]

00:10:06   whole Buffy and Angel there is really [TS]

00:10:08   wrap that up so powerful and such a [TS]

00:10:11   great ending where she sacrifices him [TS]

00:10:13   and yeah then he comes back and he gets [TS]

00:10:16   his own show and whatever that that [TS]

00:10:18   second season still pretty amazing [TS]

00:10:20   I do feel like the fifth season of buffy [TS]

00:10:23   it ends with her dying she sacrifices [TS]

00:10:28   herself to save her sister and that was [TS]

00:10:31   supposed to sort of be a potential [TS]

00:10:34   ending because they guess the show is [TS]

00:10:35   there is some chance that was not going [TS]

00:10:37   to get picked up [TS]

00:10:38   well i think i think it was always going [TS]

00:10:40   to come back but there was some question [TS]

00:10:43   about it because that was that it [TS]

00:10:45   actually the contract was up after five [TS]

00:10:47   years and in the end it moved to another [TS]

00:10:49   network for its last two years to upn [TS]

00:10:52   which ended up getting sucked into that [TS]

00:10:54   the CW afterlife as well eventually uh [TS]

00:10:58   so uh you know I the last two seasons [TS]

00:11:02   with the exception of that wonderful [TS]

00:11:04   musical episode i think the last two [TS]

00:11:06   seasons above your kind of forgettable [TS]

00:11:08   to the point where I almost it prefer to [TS]

00:11:11   think of that last as terrible as it is [TS]

00:11:13   to say i like it when Buffy died at the [TS]

00:11:15   end I'm gonna like that I I thought that [TS]

00:11:17   was kinda was a good it was a good cap [TS]

00:11:20   piece to the entire [TS]

00:11:21   story and i think the sixties and really [TS]

00:11:23   struggles and I mean both in terms of [TS]

00:11:25   the plot which itself is about her [TS]

00:11:28   struggling with coming back and in terms [TS]

00:11:31   of and having said all that spike [TS]

00:11:33   yes I mean there are there are some ups [TS]

00:11:35   and downs i agree that I think the sixth [TS]

00:11:37   season the second half of the back end [TS]

00:11:38   of the sixth season is probably I [TS]

00:11:41   thought it was really good i really [TS]

00:11:43   enjoyed it and that was one that I had [TS]

00:11:44   not seen that for a long time i actually [TS]

00:11:45   ended up watching that only 45 years ago [TS]

00:11:48   because i missed I think that was that [TS]

00:11:51   was the season to transition the upn and [TS]

00:11:53   then we lost upn in i was in college [TS]

00:11:55   then and we just misplaced it somewhere [TS]

00:11:58   no we didn't we didn't get it that was [TS]

00:11:59   the thing it wasn't it was not available [TS]

00:12:01   in office and grow upstate New York [TS]

00:12:03   unfortunately unless you have a [TS]

00:12:05   satellite dish and so for a little while [TS]

00:12:06   we had somebody at someones friends [TS]

00:12:08   parents lived in the area they had a [TS]

00:12:09   satellite dish they were taping it [TS]

00:12:10   giving it to us and then just download [TS]

00:12:13   of that was not really an option except [TS]

00:12:15   hit wow that was those were the days [TS]

00:12:19   yeah hanging at nine years ago ten Jason [TS]

00:12:22   have you seen the movie before you saw [TS]

00:12:24   the serious i had not seen the movie [TS]

00:12:26   before I saw the series and then I'm not [TS]

00:12:27   one at some point i went back and i [TS]

00:12:29   watched the movie and I was horrified at [TS]

00:12:31   how terrible it was you know i will i [TS]

00:12:33   will actually defend it i don't think [TS]

00:12:35   it's a tear I don't think it's that [TS]

00:12:36   terrible movie isnot the show it is [TS]

00:12:38   clearly not the show I think as a as a [TS]

00:12:40   sort of cult movie i think it's got a [TS]

00:12:43   lot going for it but is very very [TS]

00:12:44   different from the show [TS]

00:12:45   yeah I mean I think joss whedon was [TS]

00:12:48   really disappointed and it just because [TS]

00:12:50   he was going for [TS]

00:12:51   he was going for a different kind of I [TS]

00:12:52   he was going for that kind of kind of [TS]

00:12:55   comedy allegory thing and they were they [TS]

00:12:57   were going a little cheesier and all the [TS]

00:12:59   other very campy there's not there's not [TS]

00:13:02   much drama in it if any but it's still [TS]

00:13:05   got it's you know it's still mildly it's [TS]

00:13:07   still amusing it's still an entertaining [TS]

00:13:10   sort of cult movie I me now Paul Reubens [TS]

00:13:12   it has I i really like him in that movie [TS]

00:13:15   it's pretty great rutger hauer is it to [TS]

00:13:18   in Donald Sutherland's got a good cast [TS]

00:13:19   party was one of the first shows that [TS]

00:13:21   genre shows if not the first time I ever [TS]

00:13:24   experience where it had just incredible [TS]

00:13:27   appeal with women who I knew that you [TS]

00:13:32   know a lot of the sci-fi shows you know [TS]

00:13:33   outer space shows and spaceship shows it [TS]

00:13:34   was [TS]

00:13:35   good definitely i'm mostly guy thing and [TS]

00:13:38   with Buffy not i think not just because [TS]

00:13:41   of the female protagonist but i think [TS]

00:13:43   because a lot of the the I mean a lot of [TS]

00:13:47   strong women characters and along with a [TS]

00:13:48   lot of strong messages about women that [TS]

00:13:51   it it i mean there's more of this now [TS]

00:13:52   that i think there was back with Buffy [TS]

00:13:54   was was first premiering where were you [TS]

00:13:56   saw John we show that actually had that [TS]

00:13:58   appeal to women rent have you watched [TS]

00:14:02   much [TS]

00:14:02   Buffy after the factor you more agile [TS]

00:14:04   it's actually it's kind of amusing [TS]

00:14:06   because the first episode i've seen for [TS]

00:14:08   Buffy episodes to date I drinks and the [TS]

00:14:11   first di now I'm it's been online to [TS]

00:14:14   watch list for years and I've just never [TS]

00:14:16   got around to it but the first but the [TS]

00:14:18   episode i ever saw was the season five [TS]

00:14:20   finale of all things [TS]

00:14:22   oh so she dies the end yeah well they [TS]

00:14:26   did that episode has like I clip package [TS]

00:14:28   that does like the first if you ever use [TS]

00:14:30   it in like full form they have a clip [TS]

00:14:32   package that recaps the first five [TS]

00:14:33   species me everything to date which is [TS]

00:14:35   there you're all cut up [TS]

00:14:37   what more do you know it's true i needed [TS]

00:14:39   it made a fair amount of sense [TS]

00:14:41   considering the fact that I was coming [TS]

00:14:42   into the show knowing nothing about it [TS]

00:14:45   other than presumably there's a girl [TS]

00:14:47   named buffy who slays vampires but I [TS]

00:14:50   mean the little life so I've seen that [TS]

00:14:52   I've seen the musical episode and I've [TS]

00:14:54   seen a couple of scattered episodes that [TS]

00:14:56   i can't remember off the top of my head [TS]

00:14:58   but I mean I'd always struck me as an [TS]

00:15:01   intriguing show and never liked it was [TS]

00:15:04   always like on the bubble for me where [TS]

00:15:06   it was [TS]

00:15:06   maybe I'd like this show if I gave it a [TS]

00:15:08   chance but I don't have the time right [TS]

00:15:09   now and there are so many more [TS]

00:15:11   interesting things to be watching and [TS]

00:15:13   then it just kind of get kept on getting [TS]

00:15:15   pushed back and back but i'm i'm curious [TS]

00:15:17   to finally like now that once once we [TS]

00:15:20   get into November hiatus for current [TS]

00:15:23   television and I can go back to watching [TS]

00:15:24   back in television it's on my list but i [TS]

00:15:27   mean i think it's interesting [TS]

00:15:28   overall just Whedon has really made a [TS]

00:15:30   name for himself in strong female [TS]

00:15:32   characters and strong female writing [TS]

00:15:35   going back to what you're saying Jason I [TS]

00:15:37   mean that's that's always something I [TS]

00:15:38   mean he has been a personal champion [TS]

00:15:40   about you know girl should kick ass and [TS]

00:15:42   girls should have their own personal [TS]

00:15:44   messages both in his shows and also [TS]

00:15:47   championing it into like [TS]

00:15:48   stuff that he works with i find [TS]

00:15:50   fascinating really [TS]

00:15:51   yeah absolutely one of the first names [TS]

00:15:54   that I ever associated with you know it [TS]

00:15:57   was at the point of my life was like I [TS]

00:15:58   watched a few television shows and you [TS]

00:16:01   don't really know who's behind them [TS]

00:16:02   necessarily when you're like a teenager [TS]

00:16:04   whatever you're just like oh that shows [TS]

00:16:05   maybe I chose funny but he was one of [TS]

00:16:07   the first people like creative talents [TS]

00:16:09   that I started following because i [TS]

00:16:11   thought this show is so good i need to [TS]

00:16:12   see what else this guy's done but who is [TS]

00:16:14   this guy and he became you know one of [TS]

00:16:16   those names showrunner people were you [TS]

00:16:18   like I wanna it's a show by that guy oh [TS]

00:16:20   that guy [TS]

00:16:21   yeah and of course that's expanded over [TS]

00:16:22   the years but i think he was really for [TS]

00:16:23   me one of the first people that I was [TS]

00:16:25   like that's a guy you know I want to [TS]

00:16:26   follow everything that he does we just [TS]

00:16:27   watch the credits and you see these [TS]

00:16:29   episodes written by joss whedon who is [TS]

00:16:30   the creator of the show and you're like [TS]

00:16:31   okay this guy's interesting and then [TS]

00:16:33   suddenly he starts directing episodes [TS]

00:16:35   that he's written and the ones that he's [TS]

00:16:37   written and directed or like these you [TS]

00:16:39   know special episodes that have [TS]

00:16:40   different things about them like wash [TS]

00:16:43   the episode that has a 35 minute period [TS]

00:16:46   where there's no spoken dialogue because [TS]

00:16:48   everybody loses their voices and and [TS]

00:16:50   instead of one of the are my argument to [TS]

00:16:52   the three best there are three episodes [TS]

00:16:55   to me that totally stand out from that [TS]

00:16:56   show [TS]

00:16:57   go for it on which are the best sort of [TS]

00:16:59   scary episode which i think is hush [TS]

00:17:02   yes i watch it on and i was actually [TS]

00:17:03   actually gave me nightmares on more than [TS]

00:17:05   one occasion [TS]

00:17:06   yeah a little bit of a dark city ripoff [TS]

00:17:08   but who cares generate but the gentlemen [TS]

00:17:10   are Terry truly really scary once more [TS]

00:17:15   with feeling the musical episode a [TS]

00:17:17   musical episode which is fantastic and [TS]

00:17:18   then the best dramatic episode of the [TS]

00:17:20   entire series is the body [TS]

00:17:23   oh the the one where I'd hate to say [TS]

00:17:26   anything about it just because I do what [TS]

00:17:27   you have to find the boiler horn let's [TS]

00:17:29   not even do it [TS]

00:17:30   aight no but I'll just say that it is [TS]

00:17:31   one of the most moving sort of like [TS]

00:17:34   emotional hours on television that no [TS]

00:17:37   more not think that I did not think that [TS]

00:17:39   like television was necessarily capable [TS]

00:17:41   of opening but i watch that it came out [TS]

00:17:43   when I was living in Scotland studying [TS]

00:17:45   abroad and like we had a friend who is [TS]

00:17:48   getting tape scent of the episodes that [TS]

00:17:51   were airing and so they sent it to us [TS]

00:17:54   and i remember watching it on a little [TS]

00:17:55   tiny like like nine inch television that [TS]

00:17:58   I had borrowed from my friend like nine [TS]

00:18:00   inch television BCR [TS]

00:18:02   combo sitting in my room by myself like [TS]

00:18:04   like tearing up just because it was so [TS]

00:18:06   emotional it's just I never I don't [TS]

00:18:09   think even since then I've run into an [TS]

00:18:11   episode of television that has made me [TS]

00:18:12   do that that was a written and directed [TS]

00:18:13   by and that episode also had no music [TS]

00:18:17   that was that was the thing that you [TS]

00:18:19   said there's a musical episode and then [TS]

00:18:20   there's the episode where there is no [TS]

00:18:22   music and the episode no sound which is [TS]

00:18:24   the only upset i think that was ever [TS]

00:18:25   given an Emmy for right yeah yeah [TS]

00:18:28   unfortunately no dialogue [TS]

00:18:30   yeah I guess but the episode that always [TS]

00:18:33   comes to mind for me although that [TS]

00:18:35   climax of season two really hit for me [TS]

00:18:38   is there's an episode and again i'm not [TS]

00:18:40   gonna file off the fire out the spoiler [TS]

00:18:41   horn we did mention but he dies at the [TS]

00:18:44   end of season I already already said she [TS]

00:18:46   died of the disease if I what I didn't [TS]

00:18:47   know then their caller see how you're [TS]

00:18:48   worried about sports or and so put that [TS]

00:18:50   together thank their two more seasons [TS]

00:18:52   there flash yeah she's not in the last [TS]

00:18:54   pieces [TS]

00:18:55   no it's very confusing that's why wasn't [TS]

00:18:57   this with a switch to a dog at the buffy [TS]

00:18:59   so yeah that part's hair that's right [TS]

00:19:01   Doggett and Reyes the vampire agents [TS]

00:19:04   that's a whole other podcast so there's [TS]

00:19:08   an episode in The Who second season in [TS]

00:19:13   the kind of Angel arc arc or passion [TS]

00:19:17   which is the episode again we are [TS]

00:19:20   getting into too many details is the [TS]

00:19:22   episode where you really realize but [TS]

00:19:26   Joss Whedon and this has become a thing [TS]

00:19:28   with him but this was the first time [TS]

00:19:30   where you realize joss whedon is not [TS]

00:19:33   afraid to have regular characters on his [TS]

00:19:37   show [TS]

00:19:37   murder murder permanent murder dead dead [TS]

00:19:41   other characters on his irregular [TS]

00:19:43   characters as one of the characters in [TS]

00:19:45   the cast brutally murders another one [TS]

00:19:48   and the ramifications go for the rest of [TS]

00:19:51   the series brilliant I mean I know it [TS]

00:19:53   sounds terrible but the way it's done [TS]

00:19:55   it's a it that was the moment where I [TS]

00:19:59   was like okay this guy this guy is doing [TS]

00:20:01   great work not just good work but great [TS]

00:20:04   work [TS]

00:20:04   the only other show that I've seen that [TS]

00:20:06   carries that to such an extent is [TS]

00:20:07   possibly the FX show the shield which [TS]

00:20:11   has something terrible happened in the [TS]

00:20:13   first episode [TS]

00:20:14   that literally last the entire seven [TS]

00:20:17   seasons like a zit Lissa's undercurrent [TS]

00:20:20   all the way to the end [TS]

00:20:21   no like yeah joss whedon does a great [TS]

00:20:22   job of any not only is he not afraid to [TS]

00:20:25   kill people is not afraid to like have [TS]

00:20:27   things change you know this is the point [TS]

00:20:29   at which you realize this is not just a [TS]

00:20:31   like formulaic every week there's a [TS]

00:20:33   there's a monster and they fight off the [TS]

00:20:35   monster and that's the end like bad [TS]

00:20:38   stuff happens and you know he's the [TS]

00:20:39   characters are rarely happy for any [TS]

00:20:41   length of time right and and there's a [TS]

00:20:44   you know they they progress through high [TS]

00:20:46   school and college and out into the real [TS]

00:20:48   world which is a kind of a nice they [TS]

00:20:50   don't try to pretend that the high [TS]

00:20:51   school has gone on for eight years [TS]

00:20:53   although there is eating into the shield [TS]

00:20:56   the first episode of Buffy there is a [TS]

00:20:57   character who is parent played by eric [TS]

00:20:59   balfour and again I i I'm not gonna fire [TS]

00:21:02   off the spoiler warning here but let me [TS]

00:21:04   just say eric balfour he's not in the [TS]

00:21:06   show he's only in the pilot but he's [TS]

00:21:08   played the way that he's played is that [TS]

00:21:11   he he's part of the cast essentially and [TS]

00:21:15   then they kill him which is great [TS]

00:21:18   because it's that moment we are like you [TS]

00:21:20   know these three sidekicks and only two [TS]

00:21:22   of them make it and you if you're [TS]

00:21:24   watching the show for the first time you [TS]

00:21:25   have no idea that one of the one of [TS]

00:21:27   these random people is is gonna die in [TS]

00:21:29   the other two we're gonna make it [TS]

00:21:30   it's willow and Xander and Jesse by Eric [TS]

00:21:34   played by eric balfour the problem is [TS]

00:21:36   that that just call for never quite [TS]

00:21:38   never quite rebounded from that he never [TS]

00:21:39   makes it [TS]

00:21:40   yes you can go see him in skyline which [TS]

00:21:43   is a terrible movie that's out now I [TS]

00:21:44   think and we every time we see him and [TS]

00:21:46   be like hey it's jesse the guy who died [TS]

00:21:48   in the first episode of Buffy but the [TS]

00:21:49   the but the thing is the point is unlike [TS]

00:21:51   the shield Jesse's death has no [TS]

00:21:54   ramifications and I always thought that [TS]

00:21:56   was a little strange like jesse was like [TS]

00:21:57   willow and Xander's best buddy and he's [TS]

00:22:00   never mentioned again and he doesn't [TS]

00:22:03   show up and I mean maybe they couldn't [TS]

00:22:05   get him but he doesn't show up in [TS]

00:22:06   alternate realities are flashbacks or [TS]

00:22:08   anything he's jet and there they would [TS]

00:22:10   have been some great opportunities for [TS]

00:22:11   that too yeah yeah so in in the got the [TS]

00:22:14   doppelganger episode in the first [TS]

00:22:16   yeah absolutely but instead it's just [TS]

00:22:19   you know let's never speak better feel [TS]

00:22:20   for again so so send anyone just met you [TS]

00:22:24   Buffy you know so i guess i will go on [TS]

00:22:26   my list of five like the five days [TS]

00:22:28   mr. my high fidelity like a list of the [TS]

00:22:31   top five all-time TV shows [TS]

00:22:33   buffy is number one with a big shiny [TS]

00:22:37   star next number one number one makes it [TS]

00:22:40   makes me want to watch the whole series [TS]

00:22:41   so i can argue with you number 1 i've [TS]

00:22:44   seen a bunch of episodes but number one [TS]

00:22:45   number one number one autumn busy but [TS]

00:22:49   you're thinking but Max Headroom is [TS]

00:22:51   number two by the way i was gonna give [TS]

00:22:53   you top five maybe but next max headroom [TS]

00:22:55   law and lost is in there somewhere but [TS]

00:22:58   although lost at one point was looking [TS]

00:23:00   like it might slide in there at number [TS]

00:23:01   one no later season visited season for [TS]

00:23:05   the what a sixties and happened and yeah [TS]

00:23:07   uh-hum another podcast for that so [TS]

00:23:10   before we go to Firefly which is for the [TS]

00:23:12   other just wish I really wanted to talk [TS]

00:23:14   about and I know that john andrade have [TS]

00:23:16   a lot to say about it will jump over [TS]

00:23:17   angel other than to say that for a show [TS]

00:23:20   that was kind of what I heard there's [TS]

00:23:23   gonna be an angel spin-off I kind of [TS]

00:23:24   couldn't believe it because i really [TS]

00:23:25   hate that guy [TS]

00:23:26   cat you know he's like Captain handsome [TS]

00:23:27   me see I'm oh I'm a vampire and I'm [TS]

00:23:30   Moody and turns out David Boreanaz [TS]

00:23:32   actually pretty good actor and you know [TS]

00:23:35   what he was so good that in fact the [TS]

00:23:36   first time i watched an episode of bones [TS]

00:23:39   which was his later show [TS]

00:23:40   yes I thought it strange to see him in [TS]

00:23:42   the daylight which isn't yeah the [TS]

00:23:44   University of claim and you know for [TS]

00:23:46   someone I agree I agree totally that he [TS]

00:23:48   surprised me with how distinct those [TS]

00:23:51   being the sort of major characters is [TS]

00:23:52   played to date those two characters [TS]

00:23:53   they're very different and he does a [TS]

00:23:56   very good job of portraying them as very [TS]

00:23:58   different people I thought maybe he [TS]

00:23:59   might be kind of a one-trick pony but I [TS]

00:24:01   actually think that he's actually he's [TS]

00:24:02   pretty talented [TS]

00:24:03   not to mention that show has one of my [TS]

00:24:05   favorite character arcs of all time from [TS]

00:24:09   a spin-off character from you from Buffy [TS]

00:24:12   which is Wesley one of the watchers who [TS]

00:24:15   is one of my favorite characters because [TS]

00:24:17   he goes from being a kind of you know [TS]

00:24:20   you're very stuck-up pretentious nerdy [TS]

00:24:23   type into a very different sort of [TS]

00:24:26   character by the end of angel absolutely [TS]

00:24:28   and i love that progression for him he [TS]

00:24:31   is it just it's and it's wrenching at [TS]

00:24:33   times like he goes through some truly [TS]

00:24:35   awful things and does some truly awful [TS]

00:24:37   thing until survive what five seasons [TS]

00:24:39   five seasons it was cancelled [TS]

00:24:42   midway through the fifth season and so [TS]

00:24:44   they basically got enough time to try [TS]

00:24:45   and dig in ending out of it i said no i [TS]

00:24:48   think the fifth season was actually the [TS]

00:24:49   22nd episode I don't think they lost any [TS]

00:24:51   count [TS]

00:24:52   no they didn't but they didn't know it [TS]

00:24:54   was going to be a school until about [TS]

00:24:55   halfway through the season so they had [TS]

00:24:56   to like scramble to try and put like [TS]

00:24:59   wrap the entire series up and they and [TS]

00:25:01   they seem to not really they they're [TS]

00:25:03   ending is very abrupt and kind of [TS]

00:25:05   deliberately so that's what and you sort [TS]

00:25:07   of like to believe that everybody's [TS]

00:25:08   gonna die although you know they'll [TS]

00:25:10   probably get out of it except it doesn't [TS]

00:25:12   come back so who knows maybe they'd all [TS]

00:25:13   die right then it's also odd because it [TS]

00:25:16   doesn't really linked into the Buffy [TS]

00:25:18   Season eight comics writer is a comic [TS]

00:25:21   book series that picks up for Angel [TS]

00:25:22   after where it left off but is not canon [TS]

00:25:24   and it's also a terrible [TS]

00:25:26   yes but i will say angel has some truly [TS]

00:25:29   great standard episode i think the [TS]

00:25:31   fourth I think the fourth season of [TS]

00:25:32   angel which is this sort of like there's [TS]

00:25:35   a there's a prophecy of course it's [TS]

00:25:37   always a prophecy but it's like it's [TS]

00:25:38   really dark and there's and la is going [TS]

00:25:40   to kind of get pulled into hell and and [TS]

00:25:43   that fourth season of angel really great [TS]

00:25:46   i see i would argue that might be its [TS]

00:25:48   weakest Tom I think it has value and [TS]

00:25:50   great stand on episodes including one [TS]

00:25:54   really fantastic episode where you it's [TS]

00:25:58   cut the whole thing is kind of a [TS]

00:25:59   bait-and-switch and it's kind of a major [TS]

00:26:01   episode in terms of the progression of [TS]

00:26:03   yes season but there I found the Dumont [TS]

00:26:05   of the season like that he do in are you [TS]

00:26:08   referring to the raiders of the lost ark [TS]

00:26:09   episode [TS]

00:26:10   yes yes ok are there is an episode where [TS]

00:26:12   where it seems strangely like greatest [TS]

00:26:14   the Lost Ark and it turns out there's a [TS]

00:26:16   reason for it out what before we move on [TS]

00:26:18   one more thing I want to plug 1 episode [TS]

00:26:19   of angel is nothing is small-time which [TS]

00:26:22   have written by joss whedon but written [TS]

00:26:24   by ben edlund who did the tick and it is [TS]

00:26:27   angel gets turned into a wee little [TS]

00:26:29   puppet man I'm of it [TS]

00:26:31   yeah he's great that's great episode [TS]

00:26:32   angel fantastic ok moving on out of the [TS]

00:26:35   buffyverse to the what turned out to be [TS]

00:26:39   really his biggest kind of failure and [TS]

00:26:41   yet I think cult success which is [TS]

00:26:44   firefly the sci-fi show on the fox [TS]

00:26:47   network that got cancelled midstream [TS]

00:26:49   and i ended up getting picked up in a [TS]

00:26:52   movie [TS]

00:26:53   how many of you watched it was on i'm [TS]

00:26:55   carrying i watched when I was on me I [TS]

00:26:57   didn't know I live the hard real-time [TS]

00:26:59   the terrible and I mean it's john to the [TS]

00:27:02   point where they asked the last episode [TS]

00:27:03   they aired was the was the pilot that [TS]

00:27:06   they'd refuse to run and and i watch [TS]

00:27:09   that pilot and I thought to myself one [TS]

00:27:11   why didn't they run this it's great why [TS]

00:27:15   didn't they make that the first episode [TS]

00:27:16   out of the gate because it might have [TS]

00:27:17   really was fantastic and people metal [TS]

00:27:19   really liked it if they had seen it and [TS]

00:27:21   2i i watch that pilot of firefly and [TS]

00:27:24   thought to myself this might be the best [TS]

00:27:26   single thing that joss whedon is done [TS]

00:27:28   I mean I always that impressed with it I [TS]

00:27:30   i watched it out of order as they aired [TS]

00:27:32   it and you know it was weird because i [TS]

00:27:34   watch that first episode which is the [TS]

00:27:36   second episode and i was very lukewarm [TS]

00:27:40   on the show because you are sort of [TS]

00:27:42   thrust into it without any idea of who [TS]

00:27:44   these people are what they're doing of [TS]

00:27:46   why they're how they're involved what's [TS]

00:27:49   the bigger picture there's a shortcut [TS]

00:27:51   hang right but if there's some shorthand [TS]

00:27:53   but it's not you know what regular wrote [TS]

00:27:55   it I want the wind as a as a basically [TS]

00:27:58   it's not even the second episode they [TS]

00:27:59   actually it is anybody wrote it and [TS]

00:28:01   inserted it to be like a fake pilot and [TS]

00:28:04   it's you know yeah and it's not it has [TS]

00:28:06   some good moments but its overall not a [TS]

00:28:09   great episode and certainly not a good [TS]

00:28:11   first episode [TS]

00:28:13   oh absolutely wasn't until I went back [TS]

00:28:15   and we watched it like I I again like [TS]

00:28:16   Jason I saw the pilot was like well that [TS]

00:28:18   makes a lot of sense that would be nice [TS]

00:28:20   to know so i went back and rewatch after [TS]

00:28:23   the left of the dvds came out all in [TS]

00:28:25   order it was just like wow okay but the [TS]

00:28:27   second time through really solidified [TS]

00:28:28   for me that it was a great job [TS]

00:28:30   oh absolutely i mean I today when i was [TS]

00:28:32   first watching it I mean I didn't even I [TS]

00:28:34   don't think I caught all of the episodes [TS]

00:28:35   when i was first watching what was on [TS]

00:28:37   television part 1 because they just kept [TS]

00:28:40   on scheduling them so weirdly but I mean [TS]

00:28:42   the first like that when I saw the [TS]

00:28:44   second episode that the fake pilot so to [TS]

00:28:46   speak I was like yeah this is a this is [TS]

00:28:48   fun and I was interested mainly because [TS]

00:28:50   i like watching science fiction [TS]

00:28:52   television shows i mean i watch The Lone [TS]

00:28:54   Gunmen for great stakes but [TS]

00:28:56   I mean I why I really wasn't sold on it [TS]

00:29:00   and I like as the point where I didn't [TS]

00:29:04   really go out of my way to watch the [TS]

00:29:05   episodes its just oh it's friday night [TS]

00:29:07   Hey look maybe an episode of firefly is [TS]

00:29:10   on but i ended up finding the boxset [TS]

00:29:13   like two years later and then going back [TS]

00:29:15   and watching and I don't even think i [TS]

00:29:16   saw the original pilot until I got my [TS]

00:29:18   hands on the box that again and when I [TS]

00:29:20   got the box that I watched it in order [TS]

00:29:22   all the way through and it's it's [TS]

00:29:24   astounding how much better the show is [TS]

00:29:27   even with like the little bits that they [TS]

00:29:29   had to tweak and trim and obviously they [TS]

00:29:32   were working on budget working on [TS]

00:29:33   deadline and things like that but it's [TS]

00:29:35   still it's an astounding piece of work [TS]

00:29:37   for 14 episodes there are two episodes [TS]

00:29:40   that didn't but you couldn't have seen [TS]

00:29:41   the remarks that because they didn't [TS]

00:29:42   even interactive old yeah once you have [TS]

00:29:45   downloaded baffling someone's it i mean [TS]

00:29:48   and not only that but for me you know i [TS]

00:29:50   remember showing trying to convince my [TS]

00:29:52   best friend that this net you gotta [TS]

00:29:55   watch the show right and unfortunately [TS]

00:29:58   it took me like the entire length of the [TS]

00:30:00   time was on so I basically got him i [TS]

00:30:02   watch the last episode not the pilot but [TS]

00:30:05   the one would be at the bounty hunter [TS]

00:30:07   right and it's a kind of figured episode [TS]

00:30:11   it's very out of character for the shell [TS]

00:30:14   is still very character and it's strange [TS]

00:30:16   and if you come into that nest do we put [TS]

00:30:17   this urgency i don't think it makes a [TS]

00:30:19   very good impression because it's a very [TS]

00:30:20   weird episode and he was like that seems [TS]

00:30:23   very strange i don't really get it I'm [TS]

00:30:24   like no you gotta trust me the rest of [TS]

00:30:26   this was way better [TS]

00:30:26   he never trusted you again no no he [TS]

00:30:30   eventually watched it and like and what [TS]

00:30:32   did you know as I knew that he would [TS]

00:30:34   because he's a man of good taste but at [TS]

00:30:36   the same time it was a it was made it [TS]

00:30:37   harder to sell because it's all that's [TS]

00:30:39   that one weird show you maybe watch that [TS]

00:30:41   strange episode of well I will say [TS]

00:30:43   something about Firefly and that each [TS]

00:30:45   episode does have a joss whedon maybe [TS]

00:30:48   because he partially nude the show might [TS]

00:30:50   be doomed he started playing with very [TS]

00:30:52   interesting things in sort of [TS]

00:30:54   encompassing single episodes like out of [TS]

00:30:57   that's out of gas right that is the [TS]

00:30:59   money under 18 out of gas [TS]

00:31:01   it's it's I don't know what the name is [TS]

00:31:03   I don't remember the title because Jubal [TS]

00:31:05   Early yes I remember I remember the [TS]

00:31:08   character and but I mean out of gases is [TS]

00:31:10   a different but also equally viable for [TS]

00:31:13   30 seconds yeah the flashback episode [TS]

00:31:15   where you have basically an entire an [TS]

00:31:18   entire narrative very different [TS]

00:31:19   narrative from the rest of the show and [TS]

00:31:21   the bounty hunter episode is a very [TS]

00:31:22   different narrative and Ariel when they [TS]

00:31:24   actually you know that area which is one [TS]

00:31:26   of their biggest sort of budget episodes [TS]

00:31:29   where they go down to they go planetside [TS]

00:31:31   and do a lot of crazy crazy antics and [TS]

00:31:35   you get sort of the bigger mythology [TS]

00:31:37   there i think just reading was playing [TS]

00:31:39   with a lot of different things which I [TS]

00:31:40   found really interesting John you're a [TS]

00:31:42   big firefly supporter right well see i [TS]

00:31:46   have to go back way back to the buffy [TS]

00:31:48   movie i think to explain my Firefly [TS]

00:31:50   thing because i saw the bottom yet and I [TS]

00:31:52   don't remember why i thought i think i [TS]

00:31:54   might even seen the theater who never [TS]

00:31:56   lost a best I i saw that you know [TS]

00:31:59   somebody with some silly throw anything [TS]

00:32:00   whatever and then they were making the [TS]

00:32:01   TV series of it and i really i said [TS]

00:32:04   they're making a TV series of that movie [TS]

00:32:05   is ridiculous so i didn't watch it a [TS]

00:32:08   bunch of people who is friends with [TS]

00:32:09   watching and they don't you gotta watch [TS]

00:32:11   buffy the vampire slayer it's a great [TS]

00:32:12   like me talking about i saw that movie [TS]

00:32:14   the television shows gonna be worse than [TS]

00:32:16   the movie and I don't understand why you [TS]

00:32:18   guys are watching it so I had this anti [TS]

00:32:19   weedy sentiment going that you know we'd [TS]

00:32:22   is overhyped I don't understand what [TS]

00:32:23   people see in this thing you know I [TS]

00:32:25   would watch like happen episode to say [TS]

00:32:26   no this is horrible this is like Sweet [TS]

00:32:29   Valley High meets you know bad sitcom [TS]

00:32:31   well you know I'm feeling i would agree [TS]

00:32:34   to go to I coupling i'm not saying this [TS]

00:32:37   is true because i'm re-watching it now [TS]

00:32:39   and I see that there's more to it but [TS]

00:32:40   you know I'm just saying where I'm [TS]

00:32:41   coming from sure so I had no interest in [TS]

00:32:42   weeding although I did see his name on [TS]

00:32:44   Toy Story credits in like hey there's [TS]

00:32:45   that bucket the vampire slayer guy i saw [TS]

00:32:49   it i think it was like when it was on [TS]

00:32:50   VHS or something whatever was a very DVD [TS]

00:32:52   even but I started it put the pieces [TS]

00:32:53   together some firefly came out of my car [TS]

00:32:55   spaceships fox i watch it i'll give it a [TS]

00:32:58   try and i think it was this was the very [TS]

00:33:01   first episode maybe i'm wrong about yeah [TS]

00:33:04   i think it was the the first one that [TS]

00:33:06   aired I watched it it was like said you [TS]

00:33:09   don't know who the characters are they [TS]

00:33:11   do have a spaceship they do spaceship be [TS]

00:33:13   kind of thing [TS]

00:33:14   but two things were kind of keeping me [TS]

00:33:16   watching one was a mega millions [TS]

00:33:18   charisma sort of comes off the screen [TS]

00:33:20   you like a ride that guy I've never seen [TS]

00:33:22   him before but never seems to be fun and [TS]

00:33:24   I think at the very end of the episode [TS]

00:33:25   is the one where he kicks the guy into [TS]

00:33:27   the engine [TS]

00:33:27   yes grazie so i'm watching this thing [TS]

00:33:30   like our goofy comedy case guy the [TS]

00:33:32   engine and if I had been drinking [TS]

00:33:33   something I want to spit all over the [TS]

00:33:34   suffering it up it just came out of left [TS]

00:33:37   field and on and this was kind of my [TS]

00:33:40   clue that like whoever this guy is he's [TS]

00:33:43   not afraid of ridiculous tonal shifts [TS]

00:33:45   and like it's not gonna be like one kind [TS]

00:33:47   of show like you know for example the [TS]

00:33:48   x-files and a certain mood and that was [TS]

00:33:51   what the show is about a certain [TS]

00:33:52   sensibility this guy was willing to go [TS]

00:33:54   from like you know corny drama too weird [TS]

00:33:58   sci-fi too ridiculous slapstick humor in [TS]

00:34:01   like you know in two seconds and and as [TS]

00:34:03   you two later and in some other work and [TS]

00:34:05   everything he's going to go right from [TS]

00:34:07   like you know comedy and and the absurd [TS]

00:34:10   right into like gasoline and dramatic [TS]

00:34:12   and like you know heart-wrenching we've [TS]

00:34:14   been like two seconds [TS]

00:34:15   i'm dr. Horrible's that like uh yeah [TS]

00:34:18   sounds like a horrible one dies in 40 [TS]

00:34:20   minutes yeah yeah [TS]

00:34:21   twist the knife at the end so that's [TS]

00:34:23   what made me say I'm gonna be watching [TS]

00:34:24   the show because I don't know but [TS]

00:34:26   whatever where this guy is I still [TS]

00:34:27   didn't have any interesting but I said [TS]

00:34:29   he's unpredictable he's not doing what I [TS]

00:34:30   think he's going to do in the show em [TS]

00:34:32   and then of course you start watching [TS]

00:34:33   you get into the characters and you see [TS]

00:34:35   that we continue doing that I was [TS]

00:34:37   thinking it's Bobby like this is why [TS]

00:34:38   everybody loved Buffy and now going back [TS]

00:34:40   and watching buffy so far I'm almost [TS]

00:34:42   through with season one I still don't [TS]

00:34:44   quite see any of that Firefly magic and [TS]

00:34:45   Bobby maybe the seeds of it are there [TS]

00:34:46   but i'll keep watching and see how it [TS]

00:34:48   goes but powerful I was just you know it [TS]

00:34:52   was just confounding expectations at [TS]

00:34:53   every turn and it had spaceships and [TS]

00:34:55   like that episode with the bounty hunter [TS]

00:34:56   i love that one because that bounty [TS]

00:34:57   hunter was nuts like the characters are [TS]

00:34:59   consistently and that made me the whole [TS]

00:35:03   episode was ridiculous and strange and [TS]

00:35:05   like you know sometimes life is [TS]

00:35:07   ridiculous and strange like sure i will [TS]

00:35:09   go with that like if they had a musical [TS]

00:35:11   surrounding episode 5 episode maybe I [TS]

00:35:13   wouldn't have gone along that but maybe [TS]

00:35:14   i would like I think you could you could [TS]

00:35:16   go in any direction so you can pull it [TS]

00:35:18   off [TS]

00:35:18   I was just insanely addicted to that [TS]

00:35:21   show because not only was I desperate [TS]

00:35:23   for sci-fi but he was a sci-fi show that [TS]

00:35:25   was just you know interesting and great [TS]

00:35:26   in the can [TS]

00:35:27   it was wonderful and it is the kind of [TS]

00:35:29   show it's where the more you watch it [TS]

00:35:30   seems a lot longer than its 14 episodes [TS]

00:35:32   but the more you watch it the more you [TS]

00:35:34   just want to see more of those [TS]

00:35:34   characters i think so i think part of it [TS]

00:35:37   is that it's amazing to me like clearly [TS]

00:35:39   how tight knit the the relationship [TS]

00:35:42   between all the all the actors and again [TS]

00:35:45   then that's true and everything is [TS]

00:35:47   because it's still I mean be as much a [TS]

00:35:50   cult show it still keeps cropping up i [TS]

00:35:52   mean i love the fact that i'm nathan [TS]

00:35:54   fillion is current show castle where he [TS]

00:35:56   plays a you know a thriller writer there [TS]

00:36:00   have been at least two or three episodes [TS]

00:36:02   with references to firefly including the [TS]

00:36:04   one that aired this past week in which [TS]

00:36:06   he whips out so chinese and when asked [TS]

00:36:09   how those Chinese the show used to watch [TS]

00:36:11   you know it's it's I find that like [TS]

00:36:14   clearly as even as an actor he was not [TS]

00:36:17   just a job for a lot of these guys who [TS]

00:36:20   are on the show because they still go to [TS]

00:36:21   conventions and they talk about it and [TS]

00:36:23   there's all sorts of you know you see [TS]

00:36:25   them turn up and start casting I thought [TS]

00:36:26   it was funny that on the same night that [TS]

00:36:28   they have a firefly reference on Castle [TS]

00:36:30   the show that airs opposite on NBC Chuck [TS]

00:36:34   which has added Baldwin who played Jane [TS]

00:36:36   on fireflight had a guest star of summer [TS]

00:36:39   glau who played river on firefly like [TS]

00:36:41   they clearly you know all this stuff [TS]

00:36:43   keeps is sort of sticks around in some [TS]

00:36:45   way there's a lot of lasting impact from [TS]

00:36:47   the Sun make you sad though it does in [TS]

00:36:50   some ways like I wish there was more but [TS]

00:36:52   I guess part of it like you know felt [TS]

00:36:54   like it felt to me like you if the stars [TS]

00:36:57   ever aligned all those people would be [TS]

00:36:59   like yeah I'll totally be there you know [TS]

00:37:01   to do something but I'm gonna get old [TS]

00:37:02   like everything in some sense it's nice [TS]

00:37:04   that he died young and that it never got [TS]

00:37:06   to go through that that you know where [TS]

00:37:08   you know all the shows going to go off [TS]

00:37:09   the cliff around season five or six or [TS]

00:37:11   seven when they run out of things to do [TS]

00:37:12   or he'll kill the main character [TS]

00:37:13   whatever they want to do but this just [TS]

00:37:15   had 11 short season and just feel like [TS]

00:37:18   it was too early and to see that you [TS]

00:37:19   know the see the same actors like nathan [TS]

00:37:22   fillion like he excited he's got like [TS]

00:37:24   charisma that just jumps so great [TS]

00:37:26   natural smacks you in the face right and [TS]

00:37:28   every time it seems like you should not [TS]

00:37:29   be in the show about the right there or [TS]

00:37:31   not that's not how you doing and getting [TS]

00:37:33   elevators here he elevates that show and [TS]

00:37:36   by does this prime sure he does but it's [TS]

00:37:38   just like like you people are wasted and [TS]

00:37:40   don't like [TS]

00:37:41   Chuck you know the character he's wasted [TS]

00:37:43   there to compare his character on Chuck [TS]

00:37:44   to what to Jane he's a very [TS]

00:37:46   disappointing character by but I see is [TS]

00:37:48   yet he still has a place in my heart [TS]

00:37:51   posted it just makes it that involved in [TS]

00:37:54   episodes is not enough ice almost sure I [TS]

00:37:56   saw my show where he played a total and [TS]

00:37:57   others like straight man which was the [TS]

00:38:00   2-minute show the inside i believe which [TS]

00:38:03   did not last very long to maneuver who [TS]

00:38:05   worked on Firefly and that was very [TS]

00:38:07   disappointing in that regard [TS]

00:38:10   yeah it's the cast is kind of amazing [TS]

00:38:12   for firefly and fillion i'm in philly in [TS]

00:38:15   such a huge part of that hehe is he's [TS]

00:38:18   like Han Solo basically I mean he's that [TS]

00:38:20   kind of character is like he's got all [TS]

00:38:22   those pieces and he's got the layers and [TS]

00:38:23   he's got the gruff outside and you know [TS]

00:38:26   and you always he always shoots first [TS]

00:38:28   yeah he always eats first exactly until [TS]

00:38:31   they do the the revisited version of [TS]

00:38:34   fire and it wasn't just like the [TS]

00:38:35   unlikable like hustles like unlikable [TS]

00:38:37   but you know is really likable mouth [TS]

00:38:39   sometimes unlikable and just plain [TS]

00:38:40   unlikable you know like something he did [TS]

00:38:42   things that were unlikable he wasn't [TS]

00:38:44   like all we really know your sweetheart [TS]

00:38:45   no he did mean things that you really [TS]

00:38:48   like you really believe he would have [TS]

00:38:50   put Jane out the airlock I was a hundred [TS]

00:38:52   % yep he's gonna kill me that's up to me [TS]

00:38:53   was it was a hundred percent in [TS]

00:38:55   character I totally believed he would do [TS]

00:38:56   it [TS]

00:38:57   the fact that he didn't didn't feel bad [TS]

00:38:59   or anything to me but it's like that [TS]

00:39:00   established that character to the point [TS]

00:39:01   where you know any other show you were [TS]

00:39:03   like right yeah any other show you know [TS]

00:39:05   it's not gonna happen and butter and one [TS]

00:39:07   of his shows and you know even with that [TS]

00:39:08   much you know just a couple episodes [TS]

00:39:10   under the belt you're like Pepe could do [TS]

00:39:11   that i can see it happening and i have [TS]

00:39:12   never even seen buffy known that you [TS]

00:39:14   know other characters kill other [TS]

00:39:15   characters you know that's the those 14 [TS]

00:39:17   episodes i think you make a good point [TS]

00:39:19   John it feels to me almost like not [TS]

00:39:22   quite like they had three seasons and [TS]

00:39:25   it's and and you know somebody they were [TS]

00:39:27   deleting the tapes and only 14 episodes [TS]

00:39:29   could be picked [TS]

00:39:30   but it does feel like in those 14 [TS]

00:39:32   episodes they they showed the sort of [TS]

00:39:33   all the different ways you could play [TS]

00:39:36   that show because they are so the [TS]

00:39:38   episodes are so varied and that's not [TS]

00:39:41   bad for first season when usually think [TS]

00:39:43   about it [TS]

00:39:43   usually the first season of the show [TS]

00:39:44   it's just getting at sea legs right i [TS]

00:39:47   mean you very rarely say oh that first [TS]

00:39:49   season was the best right you that never [TS]

00:39:51   happens it's always the second or the [TS]

00:39:52   third the fourth [TS]

00:39:54   I which on one level makes me think [TS]

00:39:55   imagine what firefly could have ended up [TS]

00:39:57   being another level it's sorta like [TS]

00:39:59   maybe it's maybe this was just a [TS]

00:40:00   different kind of shape of a show and [TS]

00:40:02   they they figured it out and left a [TS]

00:40:05   beautiful corpse [TS]

00:40:06   well I mean we really didn't even get to [TS]

00:40:08   the mythology I mean there's only a [TS]

00:40:09   couple dudes did blue hands like two or [TS]

00:40:12   three times you're like I guess that's [TS]

00:40:13   going to be the ark and it's over and [TS]

00:40:15   then when the movie basically the movie [TS]

00:40:17   is the are not pressed into a movie at [TS]

00:40:20   that was also kind of depressing like [TS]

00:40:22   the movie bother me and you know it i [TS]

00:40:25   guess the tone was like this series but [TS]

00:40:27   like when they had the character died at [TS]

00:40:30   the end I mean if that had happened at [TS]

00:40:32   the end of a season I would have felt [TS]

00:40:33   more okay with it but in the movie it's [TS]

00:40:35   like yeah you know it you're right it [TS]

00:40:37   was compressed it was everything squish [TS]

00:40:39   down everything kind of rushing around [TS]

00:40:40   but a lot of that show that was nice [TS]

00:40:43   about that show was the that you got to [TS]

00:40:44   stretch stuff out that a lot of episodes [TS]

00:40:46   didn't have that much take place it was [TS]

00:40:48   mostly just characters talking a little [TS]

00:40:50   bit doing something you know and then [TS]

00:40:52   the movies had jamitol and kind of here [TS]

00:40:54   gotta go there on this planet do that [TS]

00:40:56   this is in danger that's this person [TS]

00:40:57   this is this conspiracy and is over I'd [TS]

00:41:00   love that movie though I have to say I i [TS]

00:41:01   left that movie my wife and I looked at [TS]

00:41:03   each other and said that is what I want [TS]

00:41:05   out of a sci-fi movie I want a ride i [TS]

00:41:07   want to thrill ride i want some fun and [TS]

00:41:09   some scary and some action and I want to [TS]

00:41:11   get out there and was like boy that was [TS]

00:41:13   fun and I haven't I haven't left a movie [TS]

00:41:16   with that kind of feeling I remember [TS]

00:41:18   walking out of there thinking it when [TS]

00:41:20   was the last time I walked out of a [TS]

00:41:21   sci-fi movie if this exhilarated was it [TS]

00:41:23   was it one of the Star Wars movies and [TS]

00:41:25   it had been a long time since I'd yeah [TS]

00:41:27   I'd experienced a movie a sci-fi movie [TS]

00:41:30   that really hit that all those notes [TS]

00:41:32   like how serenity did the new star trek [TS]

00:41:35   was kinda like that too but I feel like [TS]

00:41:37   that second that [TS]

00:41:38   yeah yeah whatever later found out later [TS]

00:41:40   right [TS]

00:41:42   wait no you didn't travel in time and [TS]

00:41:45   parallel universe where it came out [TS]

00:41:46   first [TS]

00:41:46   I I came unstuck in time sadly hi IM [TS]

00:41:51   yeah i know you can bring it back to Los [TS]

00:41:54   not even in your top two [TS]

00:41:55   I was going with kurt vonnegut actually [TS]

00:41:57   fill a style all right okay but ok this [TS]

00:42:02   is not good what's that guy's name again [TS]

00:42:03   scott scott pilgrim no hole mobility [TS]

00:42:07   pilgrim vs the world he has to fight the [TS]

00:42:09   nine evil truffle midori ins good times [TS]

00:42:14   i just watched that movie by the way [TS]

00:42:16   scott pilgrim so now I could talk about [TS]

00:42:18   it if we did a podcast about various [TS]

00:42:20   good idea only yeah we're supposed to do [TS]

00:42:21   a podcast about that like six months ago [TS]

00:42:23   man come on [TS]

00:42:24   yeah something like that yeah it never [TS]

00:42:25   came together though because i don't see [TS]

00:42:28   movies ever [TS]

00:42:30   I i don't so dr. horrible was the weird [TS]

00:42:34   kind of let's do a thing during the [TS]

00:42:36   writers strike that is on the internet [TS]

00:42:39   and we own it basically and so it's just [TS]

00:42:41   weed and his brothers and his his [TS]

00:42:44   brothers fiance at the time and they got [TS]

00:42:48   a great cast and on a shoestring budget [TS]

00:42:51   they shot something that actually look [TS]

00:42:53   pretty good and I was a musical again [TS]

00:42:57   going back to the musical roots and also [TS]

00:42:58   was a genre kind of peace because it's [TS]

00:43:00   about sort of superheroes and as we said [TS]

00:43:02   earlier kind of runs the gamut in 45 [TS]

00:43:06   minutes it's essentially the length of [TS]

00:43:07   its three acts but it's the length of [TS]

00:43:09   like a one TV episode of comedy and [TS]

00:43:12   tragedy and just heart and it's got a [TS]

00:43:14   its gotta turn in the last literally two [TS]

00:43:16   seconds that it just rips your heart out [TS]

00:43:19   uh you know soon Neil Patrick Harris [TS]

00:43:21   against the the people who don't know [TS]

00:43:24   how much of it is him is just we can [TS]

00:43:25   find good actors to work with and at [TS]

00:43:27   this point how many good actors want to [TS]

00:43:29   work with Joss Whedon but uh you know [TS]

00:43:31   great role by from neil patrick harris [TS]

00:43:33   and of course nathan fillion is turning [TS]

00:43:35   on the smart as captain hammer he just [TS]

00:43:38   manages to match people so well either [TS]

00:43:41   match match actors with characters or [TS]

00:43:43   characters with actors he just has this [TS]

00:43:44   natural charisma that just draws people [TS]

00:43:47   in and it makes really a family of [TS]

00:43:50   actors and a family of characters and [TS]

00:43:52   that's what I think this is shown in [TS]

00:43:54   general you know but I'm dr. horrible is [TS]

00:43:58   just dr horrible maybe my like it's tied [TS]

00:44:01   with firefly for me as one of my [TS]

00:44:04   favorite things that just weeds ever [TS]

00:44:06   done because I discovered horrible quite [TS]

00:44:08   by accident you know I i saw i found out [TS]

00:44:11   about it when part to it erred because [TS]

00:44:13   when they were first when they were [TS]

00:44:15   doing it they're doing this is like a [TS]

00:44:17   viral three-part thing with the like all [TS]

00:44:19   right word [TS]

00:44:19   release part 1 on a Monday and we're [TS]

00:44:22   going to release part two on wednesday [TS]

00:44:23   and part 3 on a friday and you have to [TS]

00:44:26   tune in and at that point I don't think [TS]

00:44:29   hulu either who hadn't yet been ordered [TS]

00:44:33   just been announced and was like and [TS]

00:44:35   artists they just started and I gotta [TS]

00:44:38   have it on their own site to was on here [TS]

00:44:39   yeah whatever it was it was on their [TS]

00:44:42   site is on hulu and then they managed to [TS]

00:44:44   get it on itunes as well and it's and it [TS]

00:44:46   was really amazing how that kind of [TS]

00:44:48   worked out because they originally just [TS]

00:44:50   kind of going for broke and like you [TS]

00:44:52   know we're just going to put it on [TS]

00:44:52   quicktime and i followed this like once [TS]

00:44:55   I got into once i watched part 2 which I [TS]

00:44:57   watched first then I will back and watch [TS]

00:44:59   part one and i was like oh my god this [TS]

00:45:00   is amazing this is why everybody's [TS]

00:45:01   talking about it and I went back in like [TS]

00:45:03   obsessively research like how much has [TS]

00:45:06   been made for and how they had set this [TS]

00:45:08   all up and they really just kind of did [TS]

00:45:09   it on a whim as just kind of a were [TS]

00:45:12   bored and I don't and joss whedon's like [TS]

00:45:14   I'm unencumbered by projects and his [TS]

00:45:16   felicia day was a friend of his was like [TS]

00:45:18   yeah I'm uncovered my projects to let's [TS]

00:45:20   do something because she had I think she [TS]

00:45:23   had been doing has she been doing the [TS]

00:45:24   guild at that point I think she liked [TS]

00:45:27   Jessica yeah something just either just [TS]

00:45:30   started or just wrapped season one or [TS]

00:45:32   something like that and so they just [TS]

00:45:34   kind of collaborate together and what [TS]

00:45:36   started this as this kind of informal [TS]

00:45:38   project where they just they asked [TS]

00:45:39   everybody to basically work on promise [TS]

00:45:42   of future pay and and profit-sharing [TS]

00:45:44   basically and they pulled in a bunch of [TS]

00:45:47   favors like all the outdoor stuff and dr [TS]

00:45:49   horrible is done on the Paramount lot [TS]

00:45:51   because just we'd managed to convince a [TS]

00:45:53   friend of his on the Paramount want to [TS]

00:45:55   let them in for 10 hours so i can just [TS]

00:45:57   shoot everything going to tell that to [TS]

00:45:59   me is not you're like me [TS]

00:46:01   yes Taylor was hit by a car right over [TS]

00:46:04   there huh [TS]

00:46:06   but I mean it's part of the reason why i [TS]

00:46:10   think i love it so much is just the [TS]

00:46:12   scrappy nature of it you know it's just [TS]

00:46:14   it's something that otherwise it's very [TS]

00:46:17   campy like b-movie campy but in a really [TS]

00:46:21   admire away where it doesn't feel low [TS]

00:46:23   budget it just feels like you know the [TS]

00:46:27   like the scrappy up-and-comer who's [TS]

00:46:28   trying to make his way in the world and [TS]

00:46:30   you really respect it [TS]

00:46:31   I don't they should use it [TS]

00:46:33   like screenwriting classes because you [TS]

00:46:35   said that there's so many different [TS]

00:46:36   genres and that is the corny comedy the [TS]

00:46:38   superhero genre this like tragedy [TS]

00:46:40   there's this musical right but every one [TS]

00:46:42   of those elements is better than entire [TS]

00:46:45   shows that focus on that particular [TS]

00:46:46   moment their musical numbers are better [TS]

00:46:48   than other musical number one TV their [TS]

00:46:50   comedy is better than complete comedy [TS]

00:46:52   shows you don't mean and I i guess it's [TS]

00:46:54   just good writing good actors but since [TS]

00:46:55   it's so small and compressing absurd you [TS]

00:46:57   don't have to do all this exposition [TS]

00:46:59   connecting the dots and stuff because [TS]

00:47:00   the story kind of is very simple [TS]

00:47:02   every little one of those seems like you [TS]

00:47:04   have the the comedy monologue in the [TS]

00:47:05   beginning with no laugh track he knocks [TS]

00:47:07   it out of the park anyone who's setting [TS]

00:47:09   on how to do that [TS]

00:47:09   watch that scene figure it out right the [TS]

00:47:11   musical parts where you want to have a [TS]

00:47:13   musical number that fits in with the [TS]

00:47:14   story I mean that he's Rodgers and [TS]

00:47:15   Hammerstein or whatever but watch his [TS]

00:47:17   musical numbers he gets the job done [TS]

00:47:19   right with actors who generally can't [TS]

00:47:21   say except for patrick harris also those [TS]

00:47:23   musicals but uh you know it's such a [TS]

00:47:25   study and it's kind of almost showing [TS]

00:47:28   off like you know every genre that you [TS]

00:47:30   could possibly have a show i'm going to [TS]

00:47:31   all the 45 minutes all better than you [TS]

00:47:33   could possibly do the man here it is the [TS]

00:47:34   whole thing still holds together and [TS]

00:47:35   it's no budget and it's on the internet [TS]

00:47:37   yet and it just blows you away and i [TS]

00:47:39   watched it for free live on the days [TS]

00:47:40   that he put it out yeah I'm here [TS]

00:47:42   yeah but i'm going to give it we're just [TS]

00:47:44   going to give it away i bought that I [TS]

00:47:45   bought the DVD because I figured at the [TS]

00:47:48   very least I liked it so much that I [TS]

00:47:50   that I wanted to support them and give [TS]

00:47:52   them something back for it because I [TS]

00:47:54   didn't like it so I did end up buying [TS]

00:47:56   the DVD when they managed to make all [TS]

00:47:58   their money and quite a lot more from it [TS]

00:48:00   which was fantastic just and everyone [TS]

00:48:03   anyone who is a firefly nones idvd like [TS]

00:48:05   every time ago or someone's house i'm [TS]

00:48:06   shocked to see the dr horrible DVD on [TS]

00:48:08   their shelves now and they're gonna do [TS]

00:48:10   about it and 1a me if they made an enemy [TS]

00:48:12   category basically collection series [TS]

00:48:14   2011 a category for you to keep you out [TS]

00:48:17   of competition with the worst shows that [TS]

00:48:18   are real show [TS]

00:48:19   well I actually was actually i don't [TS]

00:48:21   think that otherwise would have been [TS]

00:48:22   eligible John since it never actually [TS]

00:48:23   aired on television I now understand [TS]

00:48:26   like it like that the level of game is [TS]

00:48:28   so high they like what this is some [TS]

00:48:30   internet thing we have to [TS]

00:48:31   compartmentalize it or perhaps not even [TS]

00:48:33   exotic knowledge its existence you know [TS]

00:48:34   I think they don't want to me seemed [TS]

00:48:37   cooler by acknowledging its existence [TS]

00:48:38   and and saying no you're part of our [TS]

00:48:40   industry now even though we're topical [TS]

00:48:43   or topical yeah [TS]

00:48:44   but uh I think they are going to do [TS]

00:48:46   another doctor horrible at some point [TS]

00:48:47   all those pieces of work but they it [TS]

00:48:50   sounds like this is their hobby [TS]

00:48:51   basically on the side although the [TS]

00:48:53   rumors that it might actually be a film [TS]

00:48:55   that they might actually do a whole [TS]

00:48:57   thing instead of kind of going back to [TS]

00:48:59   the internet I i'm curious about how [TS]

00:49:02   they'll end up doing it and if they do [TS]

00:49:03   it as another web series or or if they [TS]

00:49:05   do get more budget and do it as [TS]

00:49:08   something bigger but it was you know it [TS]

00:49:10   I i had no expectations for it going [TS]

00:49:12   into it and I was really surprised [TS]

00:49:14   although i'm gonna fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:49:15   horn now there is there's that sound [TS]

00:49:20   so at the end of dr horrible he kills [TS]

00:49:23   penny and that was really controversial [TS]

00:49:26   and I'm just kind of curious what you [TS]

00:49:27   guys thought about I I'm used to just [TS]

00:49:29   we've been killing people and having it [TS]

00:49:30   be sad and not everything has to be feel [TS]

00:49:32   good but i know that a lot of people [TS]

00:49:33   were really upset was upset by that that [TS]

00:49:35   that makes the show i will tell you who [TS]

00:49:38   is upset that because i liked it and [TS]

00:49:40   again I like Jason I'm familiar enough [TS]

00:49:42   joss whedon that I kind of you know it [TS]

00:49:44   was unexpected but it was not after the [TS]

00:49:47   fact it was not like how could he do [TS]

00:49:48   that it was like a sweeper i convince my [TS]

00:49:51   mom to watch this and she loved it all [TS]

00:49:54   the way up through that because I'm not [TS]

00:49:57   ready for that it was not yet she'll I [TS]

00:50:00   mean she loved the rest of the things [TS]

00:50:01   she loved all the the comedy musical and [TS]

00:50:03   I like she was very impressed with the [TS]

00:50:04   writing and all of that you know and [TS]

00:50:06   it's a fairly hard sell for me to tell [TS]

00:50:08   my mother like watch this thing on the [TS]

00:50:09   internet it's great trust me and I think [TS]

00:50:12   I kind of felt like the rug pulled out [TS]

00:50:14   from her at the end there because [TS]

00:50:15   necessarily always likes addicts I think [TS]

00:50:18   we all have mother stories and I feel [TS]

00:50:19   like it's our job never to be that [TS]

00:50:21   mother like for instance my mother of [TS]

00:50:22   one of my favorite movies ever is a good [TS]

00:50:24   fellow so my mother cannot watch it [TS]

00:50:26   because of the language to playing with [TS]

00:50:27   just two bed that's all she sees a movie [TS]

00:50:30   all she sees a bunch of words [TS]

00:50:32   Joe Pesci's brains getting splattered a [TS]

00:50:34   crime now we're not a match just cannot [TS]

00:50:37   a length and thickness curse too much [TS]

00:50:39   it's unrealistic so your mother with its [TS]

00:50:42   realistic right the mods not as our [TS]

00:50:44   people there no one cares that much this [TS]

00:50:46   movie's anybody now so you have a guy [TS]

00:50:50   hanging in a frozen truck like a slab of [TS]

00:50:53   meat that's not the problem solve a land [TS]

00:50:55   never to be that person when our [TS]

00:50:56   children trying to show us something [TS]

00:50:57   from the hollow webs on our holo bands [TS]

00:51:00   or whatever this and i look forward to [TS]

00:51:02   all the web's agree yeah super great [TS]

00:51:05   worst hollow show you're not playing [TS]

00:51:10   implants and right car don't you know [TS]

00:51:12   how to do any dad I mean there were a [TS]

00:51:15   lot of talk that the psycho Joss [TS]

00:51:16   Whedon's killing another woman character [TS]

00:51:18   and he said misogynistic which I had to [TS]

00:51:20   laugh about just witnessed a police [TS]

00:51:22   sergeant person married but he does like [TS]

00:51:25   tormenting his characters and and when [TS]

00:51:26   you think about it from a I mean yes [TS]

00:51:29   emotionally it was so it was so [TS]

00:51:30   gut-wrenching because you're you know [TS]

00:51:32   you're hoping for a happy ending [TS]

00:51:33   right no he's gonna reveal his love for [TS]

00:51:35   her and she's gonna figure it out [TS]

00:51:37   and yet when you look back it's like [TS]

00:51:39   well what did we just see we just saw [TS]

00:51:40   the origin of dr horrible as a [TS]

00:51:43   supervillain this is what happened of [TS]

00:51:45   course he doesn't get the girl because [TS]

00:51:47   how do you make a supervillain out of [TS]

00:51:49   this guy is kind of a show of all it's [TS]

00:51:52   called the league table in the beginning [TS]

00:51:53   they sing to you a murderer would be [TS]

00:51:55   nice you know it's not like it's not [TS]

00:51:58   it's in the plot of the show it's not [TS]

00:52:00   you know it's the by the way is the evil [TS]

00:52:02   League of you can see the way it is the [TS]

00:52:04   idea that doubles there's another league [TS]

00:52:05   of evil and they're not so evil he's a [TS]

00:52:07   bad horse it's a very bad horse and [TS]

00:52:11   literally a horse you see how that was [TS]

00:52:12   that was not a great scene where they [TS]

00:52:14   show the actual horse standing like I [TS]

00:52:15   don't even know how they got that on [TS]

00:52:16   their budget the actual horse then [TS]

00:52:18   stamping from studio [TS]

00:52:19   yep did President to be perfectly honest [TS]

00:52:23   I think the shocking part of that show [TS]

00:52:25   is not that he kills penny it's the last [TS]

00:52:27   two seconds where you get you know you [TS]

00:52:30   get this big uplifted or uplifting evil [TS]

00:52:33   saw where he's like now I have [TS]

00:52:35   everyone's energy for now I have [TS]

00:52:36   everything you know what I feel nothing [TS]

00:52:38   I can go forward and I don't feel and [TS]

00:52:41   then it cuts to him in a sweatshirt [TS]

00:52:43   sitting in front of his camera looking [TS]

00:52:45   very sad of thing and it's the most [TS]

00:52:47   heart-wrenching thing it's like they're [TS]

00:52:49   here you realize that oh the death has [TS]

00:52:52   hit him [TS]

00:52:52   yeah you can also do that as the whole [TS]

00:52:54   thing was just a big you know allegory [TS]

00:52:56   for he did something horrible in his [TS]

00:52:57   real life has nothing to do with [TS]

00:52:59   superheroes and he's reimagined in terms [TS]

00:53:01   of supervillains and superheroes you [TS]

00:53:03   know to me like you could do also how [TS]

00:53:05   with that final scene you know I mean [TS]

00:53:06   you just blew my mind John well I'm of [TS]

00:53:09   course if they're going to continue the [TS]

00:53:10   series with him actually super villain [TS]

00:53:12   then it's harder to go with that but in [TS]

00:53:13   a standalone you can appreciate it on [TS]

00:53:15   that level pretty easily you know [TS]

00:53:16   there's a buffy episode where she wakes [TS]

00:53:18   up in a mental institution and they tell [TS]

00:53:20   me that everything that she's that's the [TS]

00:53:21   show is just her dream and her parents [TS]

00:53:23   are still alive and are still together [TS]

00:53:25   and are still happy and everybody's [TS]

00:53:27   everybody's good and and that's an [TS]

00:53:30   episode where in the end she insists on [TS]

00:53:34   making that decision between the red [TS]

00:53:35   pill or the blue pill and going back to [TS]

00:53:38   the show that you could totally read it [TS]

00:53:40   as being that this entire show is the [TS]

00:53:42   fantasy of a crazy girl [TS]

00:53:43   well of course there is a show there's [TS]

00:53:45   an episode also where there [TS]

00:53:47   it is quite legitimately the fantasy of [TS]

00:53:48   a somewhat of a crazy guy much Jonathan [TS]

00:53:52   oh yeah well that's true too so so yeah [TS]

00:53:55   they so ok John I'll I'll go with that [TS]

00:53:58   that's an interesting read I had never [TS]

00:53:59   really read that before I just I just [TS]

00:54:01   saying that's meant to be the primary [TS]

00:54:02   mentor you needed that if it's a percent [TS]

00:54:05   with the show if you decide to interpret [TS]

00:54:06   it that way I i don't think that that [TS]

00:54:08   was intentional but i do love the fact [TS]

00:54:10   that yes that the message really there [TS]

00:54:12   is that behind everybody who turns into [TS]

00:54:16   an evil supervillain well you know if [TS]

00:54:20   you apply a little bit of humanity to it [TS]

00:54:22   what you get is that something you know [TS]

00:54:23   something awful happened to make them [TS]

00:54:25   that way [TS]

00:54:26   I mean it's actually pretty good with [TS]

00:54:28   those bad guys in the show we talked [TS]

00:54:30   about people who are you talking about [TS]

00:54:31   on a previous podcast but he kind of [TS]

00:54:33   reminds me of unbreakable in that sense [TS]

00:54:35   yeah a little bit of an unbreakable guy [TS]

00:54:39   was kind of I don't know I feel like I [TS]

00:54:41   just draws his evil characters met not [TS]

00:54:44   as if they're better but getting back to [TS]

00:54:46   the bounty hunter bounty hunter is not [TS]

00:54:47   clearly nuts right but it is all the way [TS]

00:54:50   he's like a likeable character but you [TS]

00:54:52   can see that like there's something off [TS]

00:54:53   about him so it feels like if you saw [TS]

00:54:55   this person in real life this could be a [TS]

00:54:57   kind of person who goes around hijacking [TS]

00:54:59   ships and killing people and see a bad [TS]

00:55:00   person he's probably just crazy and [TS]

00:55:02   needs and as mentally disturbed but [TS]

00:55:04   that's the type of person who would do [TS]

00:55:05   this it's not somebody who was perfectly [TS]

00:55:07   well-adjusted but just for some reason [TS]

00:55:09   has their switch on the back on their [TS]

00:55:10   backs at the evil you know well to tell [TS]

00:55:12   i chalk lines and in in serenity the the [TS]

00:55:15   operative in surrender grant he's not a [TS]

00:55:18   he's the bad guy and he's a real badass [TS]

00:55:20   he kills lots of people but he's [TS]

00:55:22   actually not a bad guy he's just kind of [TS]

00:55:24   doing his job he's got his own little [TS]

00:55:25   moral code in his own ya know thing that [TS]

00:55:28   he loved that we love to write those [TS]

00:55:31   characters I mean to touch on dollhouse [TS]

00:55:32   for a bit there's a lot of that going on [TS]

00:55:35   in dollars we were gonna talk about my [TS]

00:55:37   god i wasn't something like a Scott [TS]

00:55:39   ended prematurely [TS]

00:55:40   yeah i was saying that by the time I [TS]

00:55:42   finished watching dr horrible and [TS]

00:55:43   firefly was a hundred percent on board [TS]

00:55:46   the weed and train and so when dollhouse [TS]

00:55:47   came out and you know was not very good [TS]

00:55:49   in various ways i just kept watching it [TS]

00:55:51   was like you you have greatness in you [TS]

00:55:54   this is not it [TS]

00:55:55   yeah but then you get to the end of [TS]

00:55:56   season one and you see a show an episode [TS]

00:55:58   like epitaph one jack [TS]

00:56:00   oh yeah like why wasn't the entire show [TS]

00:56:02   is and what he would do that it would [TS]

00:56:04   like site yet that is in there is a good [TS]

00:56:06   show but this is other show around it [TS]

00:56:08   that I don't like know the end there [TS]

00:56:10   there isn't a good show i think my take [TS]

00:56:11   on on dollhouse is that dollhouse was a [TS]

00:56:15   terrible premise of the show with some [TS]

00:56:19   questionable casting choices that was [TS]

00:56:22   done by a lot of talented people who [TS]

00:56:25   tried their best to figure out how what [TS]

00:56:28   how they could make it a show and some [TS]

00:56:29   of the episodes are better than others [TS]

00:56:31   and it got a little bit of momentum in [TS]

00:56:33   the end of the first season but in the [TS]

00:56:35   end I just you know it left me cold and [TS]

00:56:37   i I couldn't help watching it without [TS]

00:56:39   thinking you really should be doing [TS]

00:56:40   something else and although i know some [TS]

00:56:42   people celebrated when it got picked up [TS]

00:56:43   for that second year I I really was sad [TS]

00:56:46   when I got picked up because I I thought [TS]

00:56:48   that was like yet another eight months [TS]

00:56:50   where joss whedon was going to be [TS]

00:56:52   changed to this thing that was quite [TS]

00:56:53   frankly beneath him and that he would be [TS]

00:56:55   better off finding something else to do [TS]

00:56:57   with his time because I just thought it [TS]

00:56:58   was so like a degree of difficulty that [TS]

00:57:01   would be like steve jobs and steve jobs [TS]

00:57:02   12 hp like places a friend's place is a [TS]

00:57:05   trainer right was like what yeah i'm [TS]

00:57:06   steve jobs i can make this work and you [TS]

00:57:08   like and he would try to find it went [TS]

00:57:10   halfway in there would be some awesome [TS]

00:57:11   HP product like yeah that's the good oh [TS]

00:57:13   no its back the printers and crap right [TS]

00:57:15   I that's what the house was your right [TS]

00:57:17   there was there's definitely a lot of [TS]

00:57:19   moments that were that made a redeeming [TS]

00:57:21   I thought the end of the first season [TS]

00:57:22   was good i thought starting through [TS]

00:57:24   around the middle of the second season [TS]

00:57:26   through the end of that season there was [TS]

00:57:27   a lot of promise they picked up some [TS]

00:57:28   truly fantastic talent in pretty much [TS]

00:57:32   all of the secondary characters it's [TS]

00:57:34   unfortunate that the main character is 1 [TS]

00:57:38   i'm a great let's take a wife should do [TS]

00:57:40   school who isn't a very good actress [TS]

00:57:41   quite honestly it's kind of a 10 can [TS]

00:57:43   have to pay 50 characters and will be [TS]

00:57:45   she's a wrong person for that role [TS]

00:57:47   yeah plus plus it's very hard to ever [TS]

00:57:49   relate to the character because she's [TS]

00:57:52   getting her stuff kind of uploaded and [TS]

00:57:53   downloaded and their ways that they try [TS]

00:57:55   to work around that but again it comes [TS]

00:57:56   back to the fact that it's likely to [TS]

00:57:58   show having all about her then you can [TS]

00:58:01   about the secondary characters in the [TS]

00:58:03   whole organization and the characters [TS]

00:58:05   who are involved in it i think there's [TS]

00:58:08   another great example of character [TS]

00:58:09   progression in taking the character of [TS]

00:58:11   topher who [TS]

00:58:12   we started kind of an amoral jerk she [TS]

00:58:16   gets the best arc in the show because by [TS]

00:58:18   the end of the show he you know you [TS]

00:58:20   really do get to the point again we're [TS]

00:58:22   and again having be the you know [TS]

00:58:24   characters getting killed off who you to [TS]

00:58:26   you don't think are gonna get killed off [TS]

00:58:27   and he I don't know he gets to a point [TS]

00:58:30   where i'm incredibly empathetic as a [TS]

00:58:32   character not to blow your mind again [TS]

00:58:33   damn but there's some people who believe [TS]

00:58:36   that the character of topher who of [TS]

00:58:37   course puts these histories into the [TS]

00:58:39   lives into the it is basically making [TS]

00:58:41   characters when he loads them up with [TS]

00:58:44   their personalities at that Topher with [TS]

00:58:46   his wide crater ice cracking and with [TS]

00:58:48   his job is Joss Whedon and it's just we [TS]

00:58:51   didn't commenting on what it's like to [TS]

00:58:53   be a writer and controlling these [TS]

00:58:56   characters and making them do things but [TS]

00:58:59   then he calls the end of the world I [TS]

00:59:00   don't think josh has the same worries i [TS]

00:59:02   don't know riding a bad show about robot [TS]

00:59:05   prostitute she's going to end the world [TS]

00:59:06   i don't know i think i think sometimes [TS]

00:59:08   just Whedon has the power who sits there [TS]

00:59:10   and I i do think sometimes wonders what [TS]

00:59:12   am I actually making the world a better [TS]

00:59:14   place and in what I'm doing my talent I [TS]

00:59:16   i wouldn't be surprised if there is some [TS]

00:59:18   of that in there actually I like the [TS]

00:59:20   fact that you're maybe that was [TS]

00:59:21   off-putting in ways that like is this [TS]

00:59:24   things in it like the whole prostitution [TS]

00:59:25   angle and the characters a lot of it was [TS]

00:59:27   off-putting and I like the fact that the [TS]

00:59:29   show was willing to bother you would [TS]

00:59:31   like that wasn't a clear like all this [TS]

00:59:33   latch onto here because they're all good [TS]

00:59:34   and these are all bet everybody show [TS]

00:59:36   about human trafficking and impact of [TS]

00:59:38   the the character who you come into [TS]

00:59:40   thinking as is the most sort of [TS]

00:59:41   trustworthy and reliable and more [TS]

00:59:43   character to bring the bad guy because [TS]

00:59:46   and that's not a love like this debate [TS]

00:59:49   yeah that that was a moment where I [TS]

00:59:51   thought I don't know if i buy that [TS]

00:59:53   did you like the big like alternate and [TS]

00:59:55   what the heck was the name of that the [TS]

00:59:56   alternate ending episode where they're [TS]

00:59:58   in the SuperDuper future where on the [TS]

00:59:59   stuff that [TS]

00:59:59   stuff that [TS]

01:00:00   their habit and epitaphs goes off the [TS]

01:00:01   rails yeah I know that I kind of video [TS]

01:00:05   that was another interesting it was it [TS]

01:00:07   was a better show that would be the one [TS]

01:00:09   that they actually made so what else do [TS]

01:00:11   we have to say about Joss Whedon I mean [TS]

01:00:13   we've kinda we kind of covered all the [TS]

01:00:16   ultimate avengers the avengers yeah what [TS]

01:00:18   an interesting choice i mean he made a [TS]

01:00:20   run at doing wonder woman and he wrote a [TS]

01:00:22   bunch of screenplays and never [TS]

01:00:24   apparently the studio never wanted what [TS]

01:00:26   he wanted to give them which isn't [TS]

01:00:28   surprising honestly probably existed [TS]

01:00:30   yeah well I mean look at his work at [TS]

01:00:33   that's going to be a girl's kickass [TS]

01:00:35   movie and I think that would have been a [TS]

01:00:36   great movie to make and I wonder if the [TS]

01:00:38   studio didn't really want that I don't [TS]

01:00:42   know but but the Avengers which is [TS]

01:00:45   interesting because it doesn't have very [TS]

01:00:46   many women in it i think it's got [TS]

01:00:48   scarlett johansson is the Black Widow [TS]

01:00:49   any that's a that's a talking especially [TS]

01:00:52   in a in a film that is going to be a [TS]

01:00:55   large sort of ensemble piece that's [TS]

01:00:58   really you know you have all these [TS]

01:01:00   people who are basically expected to [TS]

01:01:02   carry their own movies and then you're [TS]

01:01:03   combining all of them into a movie like [TS]

01:01:07   that's all he's got he's got a whole he [TS]

01:01:09   he has been successful in integrating [TS]

01:01:11   maybe not movies although although [TS]

01:01:14   serenity does this to a certain degree [TS]

01:01:16   these ensemble pieces right i mean he [TS]

01:01:18   has done that in all of the shows that [TS]

01:01:20   but if there's a difference between but [TS]

01:01:21   look at those are normal downs right [TS]

01:01:23   exactly the time talking in Tamil peace [TS]

01:01:25   now it's got robert downey jr like yeah [TS]

01:01:27   razones movie they're not actively yeah [TS]

01:01:30   but stated he them and I called unknowns [TS]

01:01:34   anything less than movie stars [TS]

01:01:36   you know i would say that he writes he [TS]

01:01:38   writes his ensemble pieces where [TS]

01:01:39   everybody is just as important is [TS]

01:01:41   everybody alright but do they do that [TS]

01:01:42   the actors i think people who aren't [TS]

01:01:45   like you know you do a level actors Tom [TS]

01:01:48   Cruise level i carry the whole movie my [TS]

01:01:49   name is on top of the Marquis I think [TS]

01:01:51   they work better together because none [TS]

01:01:53   of them expects to be carrying the [TS]

01:01:54   movies if you put a bunch of top dogs in [TS]

01:01:56   the same movie together sometimes you [TS]

01:01:57   get this weird vibe you know but I would [TS]

01:02:00   also argue that the top dogs in the [TS]

01:02:03   Avengers are only really recent movie [TS]

01:02:05   stars in their own right [TS]

01:02:06   I mean you look in the last 10 years [TS]

01:02:08   Robert Downey jr. has been slowly [TS]

01:02:10   climbing you know to greatness [TS]

01:02:12   all yeah but five I mean you know you [TS]

01:02:15   have you have some of his great indie [TS]

01:02:16   stuff and I mean even even like a few [TS]

01:02:19   years ago he was still doing girlie [TS]

01:02:21   friend [TS]

01:02:21   I mean he has the voice of mr. peanut [TS]

01:02:23   now yes he is he is clearly a big deal [TS]

01:02:27   now but i would say that he still he's [TS]

01:02:29   not i don't think he has the big head [TS]

01:02:31   that somebody say like time you see them [TS]

01:02:33   as mr. peanut because you controls mr. [TS]

01:02:35   peanut controls the world so you're [TS]

01:02:38   saying that once you become mr. peanut [TS]

01:02:39   you basically get them over all rights [TS]

01:02:42   to human sanity mr. body that [TS]

01:02:44   yeah yeah that is you've you've hit your [TS]

01:02:47   peak and and possibly tell the shortest [TS]

01:02:49   know and there's nowhere to go but down [TS]

01:02:50   one similar to go down when you're [TS]

01:02:52   missing fina so what I'll say about the [TS]

01:02:55   future of joss whedon Avengers aside and [TS]

01:02:57   I think it's great that he's doing a [TS]

01:02:58   feature and I know that I mean it is [TS]

01:03:00   story of his career is control right i [TS]

01:03:02   mean he did Buffy on TV because he [TS]

01:03:03   realized that the showrunner of a TV [TS]

01:03:05   series actually got to control unlike [TS]

01:03:08   his work as a screenwriter and now he's [TS]

01:03:10   writing and directing the avengers what [TS]

01:03:13   I would make a plea for for his next for [TS]

01:03:16   his next big work because this movie [TS]

01:03:18   work is pretty good but it's of a [TS]

01:03:19   different kind of them is TV work he's a [TS]

01:03:21   good TV show runner I so i put in a plea [TS]

01:03:25   come on Josh let's see a cable show [TS]

01:03:30   I will you don't need to have a broad [TS]

01:03:32   audience because you're not that guy and [TS]

01:03:34   I think he's admitted he's not that guy [TS]

01:03:35   he's a cult audience guy so go on get a [TS]

01:03:39   show on FX or AMC or HBO or Showtime [TS]

01:03:42   I don't really care where it is i think [TS]

01:03:44   a basic cable show with 13 episodes a [TS]

01:03:46   year would be fantastic [TS]

01:03:48   so I hope that that's the next TV [TS]

01:03:51   project we see from him because that [TS]

01:03:52   could be successful and run like Buffy [TS]

01:03:55   and Angel dat but like you know I a [TS]

01:03:57   dozen show on FX could be a you know a [TS]

01:03:59   tentpole for that kind of network [TS]

01:04:00   absolutely would be fantastic and I mean [TS]

01:04:03   Fox and its parent neighbor and Fox and [TS]

01:04:06   its parent you know short networks have [TS]

01:04:08   always been willing to kind of embrace [TS]

01:04:10   crazy off-the-wall content they have [TS]

01:04:12   just not been very good about keeping it [TS]

01:04:14   there [TS]

01:04:15   I mean you look at all of this shows [TS]

01:04:16   that Fox green lights every year that [TS]

01:04:18   just kinda follow you know that there [TS]

01:04:21   are really and impressive scary concepts [TS]

01:04:25   that just don't have the audience share [TS]

01:04:26   for it right they need a million [TS]

01:04:28   audience of eight million audience [TS]

01:04:29   members and then they can't get it and [TS]

01:04:30   then your fox network but on another [TS]

01:04:33   yeah yeah exactly i hope he doesn't open [TS]

01:04:37   his own material too because Avengers [TS]

01:04:40   fine you know but I feel like that there [TS]

01:04:42   are shackles for licenses that he [TS]

01:04:45   doesn't need because I think he's proven [TS]

01:04:46   that he can come up with his own IP [TS]

01:04:48   that's that's just as good or better [TS]

01:04:49   than any of that all like he doesn't [TS]

01:04:50   need that crutch at all and everything [TS]

01:04:53   else is a counterexample because i think [TS]

01:04:54   the Campbell House on his own and it was [TS]

01:04:56   kind of a mess you have any ties but i [TS]

01:04:58   think he did that sort of like on the [TS]

01:04:59   back of a napkin with a large digital [TS]

01:05:01   lunch and then kind of got himself in [TS]

01:05:03   over his head and refuse [TS]

01:05:05   I mean there's a whole story I so my [TS]

01:05:06   other point I want to make when you're [TS]

01:05:08   looking at these twilight movies and all [TS]

01:05:09   these other kind of vampire stuff [TS]

01:05:10   together in the culture i had and that [TS]

01:05:12   there's been talk of the people who [TS]

01:05:14   produced the original buffy movie making [TS]

01:05:16   a new Buffy movie i do think they're at [TS]

01:05:19   it there's still time in the next five [TS]

01:05:22   years if they if if Joss Whedon wanted [TS]

01:05:24   to revisit buffy the vampire slayer with [TS]

01:05:27   the actors that he had he could probably [TS]

01:05:29   still do it and I wouldn't mind that [TS]

01:05:33   honestly I think that if he had a story [TS]

01:05:34   to tell I mean he's telling in the [TS]

01:05:35   comics but you know if and and season 8 [TS]

01:05:38   has been pretty I've enjoyed them [TS]

01:05:39   immensely about the season at the comic [TS]

01:05:41   has been pretty good i can see him going [TS]

01:05:42   to a season 9 or at you know doing a [TS]

01:05:44   movie or something that would be okay [TS]

01:05:46   there is a season 9 come and leaves off [TS]

01:05:48   actually the there's a season I'm coming [TS]

01:05:50   in the comics but uh they're doing a [TS]

01:05:52   different i want my share them they're [TS]

01:05:53   gonna do it you have that idea they're [TS]

01:05:55   doing it as a instead of doing it as one [TS]

01:05:57   comic that runs over like four years [TS]

01:05:58   they're doing it in a in a controlled [TS]

01:06:00   bursts it's gonna be like a [TS]

01:06:01   two-year-long thing and it's gonna have [TS]

01:06:02   multiple comics in the story arc so it's [TS]

01:06:06   going to be more like the marvel [TS]

01:06:07   universe has a bunch of different comics [TS]

01:06:09   is gonna be harder for me to collect is [TS]

01:06:10   that what you're telling me yes [TS]

01:06:11   gosh darn it yeah why not just makes me [TS]

01:06:14   anyway but obviously a apropos nothing I [TS]

01:06:16   was just flipping through out the [TS]

01:06:17   Avengers and have a shot of joss whedon [TS]

01:06:19   at comic-con this year and i think [TS]

01:06:21   actually i think i could do a pretty [TS]

01:06:22   good job of passing for Joffrey the [TS]

01:06:23   eur/usd got a beard now he's got to have [TS]

01:06:25   already cleared now the shiny head you [TS]

01:06:27   know what kind of similar to the [TS]

01:06:28   wikipedia page and I'm saying yeah i [TS]

01:06:30   think actually like more I might use [TS]

01:06:31   that somehow there some way I can [TS]

01:06:32   capitalize I don't think there is no [TS]

01:06:35   that's important comic-con next time [TS]

01:06:37   to put on a lot of weight i think yeah [TS]

01:06:39   sorry about 30 yea he yeah we just get a [TS]

01:06:42   little one of those uh you know kind of [TS]

01:06:43   strapon punches that's a young also [TS]

01:06:46   ready i'll hit TV shows that helps too [TS]

01:06:48   yeah I'm help that sounds like a lot of [TS]

01:06:50   that sounds a lot like work yeah i don't [TS]

01:06:52   know how i feel about that [TS]

01:06:53   well then just go with the weight first [TS]

01:06:55   there we go there we go i can just I can [TS]

01:06:56   eat Twinkies and done the same will come [TS]

01:06:59   brilliant well for a podcast that [TS]

01:07:02   started late and has gone into the night [TS]

01:07:04   it's like three in the morning now where [TS]

01:07:07   I think that I think that went pretty [TS]

01:07:08   well so I want to thank my guests who I [TS]

01:07:11   who I basically told to come and then [TS]

01:07:13   didn't show up so I'm glad that they [TS]

01:07:15   stuck with me [TS]

01:07:17   thank you for being here John siracusa [TS]

01:07:19   you're very welcome ran called well [TS]

01:07:22   thank you thank you and mr. ever-present [TS]

01:07:25   Dan Morgan what we got another one of [TS]

01:07:28   these right after this too yeah let's [TS]

01:07:29   just wait it will just get right into [TS]

01:07:31   that one and start talking about what's [TS]

01:07:32   the subject of that one [TS]

01:07:34   I don't know but whatever just don't [TS]

01:07:36   tell me something to pull my string i'll [TS]

01:07:38   keep going [TS]

01:07:39   oh I didn't know you had the string in [TS]

01:07:41   the back that explain everything that [TS]

01:07:42   explains a lot if I repeat a lot of [TS]

01:07:44   raising oh I repeat a lot of phrases [TS]

01:07:46   goodbye everybody thanks for listening [TS]

01:07:48   to the incomparable podcast I can't [TS]

01:07:50   believe you made it to the end [TS]

01:07:51   goodnight [TS]

01:07:53   this destiny and comfortable podcast [TS]

01:07:59   visit us at the incomparable dot-com [TS]

01:08:03   [Music] [TS]