The Incomparable

00:00:00 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast episode 10 [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► November 2010 [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► well so we're back on the uncomfortable [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► podcast and I convene intercession this [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► meeting of the comic book club who come [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► to the club member say I i if you're [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► wondering who we are [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm Jason snow and the other members of [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► this comic book club are jason reitman [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► hello hey thanks for having me back and [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► it's good to have you here in this in [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► this strange place where we're recording [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► this which used to be her office and [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► Lisa Schmeisser who and you with this [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► was never your office now and you've [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► never even worked on this floor know so [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► so there I was gentrified out of the [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► office so we can have a podcast was [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► moving on up [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► yeah to a deal exit apartment in the sky [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► that's another podcast anyway the [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► jeffersons podcast coming soon so today [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► what we thought we would talk about and [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► this was a plot hatched in the last [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► comic book club meeting was the [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► Fantastic Four and all its forms the [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► Fantastic Four were the original marvel [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► comic the in the Marvel Universe even [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► though everybody thinks of spider-man I [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► think this as the the beginning of the [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► Marvel Universe it's not true [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► the Fantastic Four came first and they [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► have been a stalwart part of what Marvel [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► has done over the last however many [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► decades it is what 40 or 50 years now 50 [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► years [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► yes sixties wasn't 623 yeah yeah so it's [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► coming up 50 actually that'll be [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► interesting but I've never been you know [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► top-of-mind i think in in the culture [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► either of comic book readers or of the [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► general pop culture that they have been [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► a couple fantastic for movies and there [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► was the Fantastic Four and made serious [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► which would maybe we will talk about a [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► little bit always been hurt several and [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► ready to our animated series [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► yes that's true actually I'm thinking of [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► the one from from original sixties early [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► seventies that one was actually my first [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► introduction of the Fantastic Four [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► yeah so based on the kirby art so [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► they've been around but but they've [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► never been a huge huge deal and it's [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► kind of interesting that they are they [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► the Fantastic Four is iconic and yet not [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► as well known as others it's the source [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► for a lot of stuff i think we can write [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► incredibles is based largely on the [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► Fantastic Four and yet largely no [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► ordinary family into ordinary family [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► with its interesting thing they've never [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► been that sort of commercial success but [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► as far as icons go [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► they are sort of like the quintessential [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► superhero group that everything else is [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► based on right and they've got the kind [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► of family dynamic going on because it's [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► a friend and why do wonderful family [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► dynamics is why they didn't catch on as [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► much because when you think about Marvel [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► was always kind of found it as an [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► alternative to DC where Marvel's in the [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► real world and they had aggressively [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► positioned a lot of their their books to [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► appeal to young single and/or [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► countercultural readers and then to have [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► this family unit where it was evident to [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► all to any reader that all four people [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► in that unit value the family and would [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► preserve that that may not have [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► resonated with a fourteen-year-old [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► reader the same way that you know we get [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► charged leave your zeal does it [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► certainly didn't with me growing up you [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► know reading the x-men and all of the [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► cool comics Fantastic Four was so lame [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► and dumb and silly and but yeah we heard [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► smoking his pipe right but now actually [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► that I'm older and I just went back and [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► reread some of them and I have a family [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► I appreciate that family dynamic and [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► story and first now I don't think the [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► Fantastic Four is lame [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► yeah I i started reading Fantastic Four [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► during John Burns run after he left the [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► ax men and what I what the reason I [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► liked it is because it was you know if [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► I've mentioned before in this podcast [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► that I love the Micronauts and it was a [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► sci-fi comic i loved nova which was a [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► seventies Marvel invention that was ace [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► us and again [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► marvel's green lantern basically but a [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► sci-fi comic and the thing I loved about [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► the burn Fantastic Four was that it is [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► that was a sci-fi that what that was we [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► build spaceships and have crazy science [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► and go to the negative zone and i love [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► that that was what i liked about that's [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► what i really like about somewhat [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► fantastic four is they give you these [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► great explanations for example Reed [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► Richards oh you know every cell in your [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► body has been converted to bacterial [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► stack you no longer need to eat breathe [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► sleep right now basically this [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► collection of scientific anomalies in [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► your brain can stretch itself in any [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► direction before we continue along those [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► lines I just need to point out that yes [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► for those following at home we did go [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► nearly four minutes and 30 seconds [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► before Jason mentioned the Micronauts [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► it's good i think the over-under was [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► spotted it [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► always choose the under when it comes to [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► the Micronauts gonna have to have the [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► all microns parties and Don Harris [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► realized it was into a sci-fi thing I [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► always loved the sci-fi comics and there [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► were that many of the mountain and AFF [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► sort of took that role of dishes [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► especially in the 30 run like to do [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► today you get that too on Marvel and DC [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► they have you can be cosmic superheroes [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► and actually I'm Kirkman with invincible [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► is doing the story arc right now the [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► hilton ride war which is a cosmic war [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► kind of story again always love that [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► stuff that's why I like Nova so you know [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► it thats that's where the eff kind of [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► came in before we get too far off here [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► we do actually have a relatively modern [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► relatively self-contained Fantastic Four [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► related book that we wanted to talk [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► about that we all read which is they [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► should do that which will start with [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► that as a jumping-off point that gives [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► everybody out there something that they [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► can read two other than just saying read [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► all the fantastic four that were [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► published and watch those terrible [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► movies and watch rather be a robot and [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► come back in like six years so and then [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► we'll talk [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► uh which is unstable molecules which I [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► hadn't even heard of before it was [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► mentioned in the last podcast or after [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► the last podcast was over maybe write it [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► unstable molecules came out a few years [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► back when Marvel was still in bankruptcy [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► and Bill Jameis had taken over as Marvel [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► and joe quesada just come on as [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► editor-in-chief and it was sort of a [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► time when they were doing all these kind [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► of experimental weird off-the-wall kind [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► of stories it was a four-issue [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► miniseries was written by tooth 2003 [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► yeah the drawn by a guy davis and [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► written by a guy named term who actually [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► is big in the indie comics world he did [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► the golems mighty swing which is a [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► graphic novel he might think most famous [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► for James Stern yes and now teaches at [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► the cartooning school in vermont i [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► believe this is available as a trade [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► paperback is and yes that i read it all [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► right it was easy pickup on amazon for [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► like three dollars [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► yeah is a four-issue series which is [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► always appropriate for this and that the [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► sort of shifting viewpoints of the [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► characters across the four before issues [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► but what what's fascinating about it is [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► that it's not really about the Fantastic [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► Four and yet it is it is about comics [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► and it's about of life in [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► in a America in the late fifties it's [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► got almost a madman kind of feel to it [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► and this is the first season I've [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► watched mad men and so watching that [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► series in conjunction with reading [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► unstable molecules you get the same [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► sense of claustrophobic emotional [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► repressive pneus oh yes you and an issue [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► two sous trauma who is the model for 46 [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► storm obviously is she's basically Betty [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► Draper yeah she's current just crushed [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► by not not so much by read her boyfriend [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► now I just society yeah mhm and I don't [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► know perhaps that perhaps this is the [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► result of Justine reading too much into [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► the subtext but i did find it really [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► interesting that you've got the [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► homosexual subtext associated with the [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► character who is known in the comics for [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► saying flame on gonna constantly yeah [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► yeah Johnny I mean so basically the way [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► the story works is that the premises [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► that the the Fantastic Four are inspired [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► that there's actually a scene at the end [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► of the fourth issue where did they [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► alleged are deadly and jack kirby and a [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► couple other guys meet these characters [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► at a party [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► yeah and so that the theory is that they [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► but they have been basing some of the [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► characters that have existed in San [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► these new characters the Fantastic Four [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► on these other characters so there's a [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► guy named Reed Richards who is this kind [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► of snooty scientist who's lost in his [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► work at Columbia University they're sooo [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► strong who is his girlfriend she's got a [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► little brother Johnny who is rebellious [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► rebellious teenager and their parents [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► had died in a car crash and then there's [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► been great been busy been grammar is he [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► does he have another name but hes b is [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► the Ben Grimm analog and he is a friend [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► of reeds from college and and he has a [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► sort of carries a torch for there's a [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► huge torture see he has a boxing gym [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► yeah and he's and he's the earthy guy [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► from Brooklyn that you guys back TM the [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► analog of a been accepted these are [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► people in basically the real world right [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► and and and therefore had my comes to [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► their family ties are nowhere near as [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► seamless or stable as the Marvel [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► characters and that's saying something [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► given the drama and the storm and wrong [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► that goes on with your usual fantastic [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► for title but that was the thing about [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► unstable molecules is just how [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► unfulfilled and [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► happy everybody agrees with everybody [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► else can be the subtitle of it is the [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► true story of the world's greatest [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► foursome [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's not of [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► course not true but in the end I yea [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► sorry I hate to break it to you but they [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► have a spoiler already have these [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► president reductions and post scripts [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► where the that they kind of do this this [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► postmodern oh this is how this was [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► inspired by the characters biographies [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► you just read his reference material in [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► the back yeah it's it's it's one of [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► those you know [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► yes it acts as if it is truly true and [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► that they've got the one of the nice [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► things about it is that it does cut back [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► and forth between this this comic strip [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► color comic book called vapor girl when [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► is theoretically written by Stanley that [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► is that in the story the artist of vapor [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► girl was a neighbor i think yes of sooo [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► strong and he's the reason that the all [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► the Marvel Comics guys come to that [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► party and and that's used that cuts back [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► and forth between her sort of terrible [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► life and the life of the damage the [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► tribulations of vapor girl that's its do [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► the only person who seems really happy [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► with his life in the series is read and [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► I think it's just because he's too [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► intellectually disconnected from it to [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► realize what he what he does or doesn't [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► want right because you take a look and [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► Susan the grocery store and she's [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► thinking I never asked to be the parent [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► of a teenager when I was still a [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► teenager myself [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► the biggest reason she got together with [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► Reed was because she was hoping he'd [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► provide a father figure for Johnny so [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► that seems to imply that there's she she [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► isn't feeling particular connection to [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► him she was just kind of playing the [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► long con is that were johnny hates [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► everything about his life because he's a [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► teenager and his some situations all [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► screwed up Ben can't connect with women [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► because he dumps them after one month [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► because their fingernails are square [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► where they do your table manners or [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► whatever and trim your fingernails [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► family and because he's there because [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► theoretically still life sort of [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► idealized sooo yeah and yeah it's a but [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► there's a scene that back to the cabin [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► reed is trying to figure out how to [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► propose to see when he's abstracted into [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► what would be advantageous in the [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► cabbies like do you love her tell her [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► that and just ask her to marry you and [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► reduce all but why would I do [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► yeah it's it's it's it's really i was [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► very impressed i think it's really well [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► done it and then [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► and it it's definitely interesting to [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► say okay people who are knowledgeable [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► about superhero stories and things like [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► that we're going to take that knowledge [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► and tell a story about people that [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► doesn't involve powers or anything [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► beyond the beyond the real world and [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► these people are kind of miserable and I [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► just find it interesting story of the [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► year and just say that their parts of it [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► that are funny i love the fact that [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► throughout all four we see the kind of [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► ongoing adventures of Johnny and his and [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► his friend who who are believed by these [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► guys but get a little bit of their [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► revenge that they give is still the car [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► didn't necessarily give as good as they [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► get but yeah they take the brake off the [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► car and then later they steal this guy's [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► car and then I get the crap beat out of [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► him but it you know the defiance that [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► that makes it appealing though [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► yeah yeah now it's so that was some some [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► not necessarily comic relief but a [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► little kind of adventure and fun of [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► showing that these guys aren't going to [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► take it that I that I kinda like but [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► yeah it's it is sort of miserable people [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► in a min in bad situations and and in [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► the end I think that's that sooo ends up [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► kind of breaking free from her condition [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► whereas sort of read ends up as this [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► kind of miserable user in the lab in the [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► middle [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► well be interesting to see if you could [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► take that the basic premise behind the [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► switches take away the superpowers and [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► these the dynamics and the personalities [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► that play out and I'd love to see how [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► that would get applied to other Marvel [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► properties for example what if daredevil [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► didn't have his super enhanced senses [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► and all you have basically is a blind [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► lawyer who has this out outside sense of [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► moral obligation these profoundly [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► screwed up relationships with women [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► maybe they were there was actually [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► another Marvel series called powerless [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► there's a four-issue series i think each [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► issued out with a different Marvel [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► character remember a spider-man Peter [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► Peter Parker being on the cover of one I [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► think it started following those themes [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► but i haven't read it and it was already [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► came out right around the same time so I [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► wonder if that's what they were doing [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► yeah it's interesting because you've got [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► that you know the character dynamics [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► right yeah man and then so that's the [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► question is if you pull the superhero [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► aspect out what's left i mean you could [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► argue that them in spider-man 2 i think [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► is actually a pretty good movie but it's [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► really a movie i think i might have said [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► this on a previous podcast it's really a [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► movie about a guy who's got problems who [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► happens to be a superhero right and [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► that's the superhero just get you in the [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► door but that's [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► not really i just realized the Marvel [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► Marvel more they've launched the nor [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► books last year [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► random i had of course picked up the [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► x-men run and it's pretty much the same [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► thing we have these characters they [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► don't have powers and they transpose [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► some of the traits and it basically [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► takes those themes and what are the [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► dynamics like when you take the mutant [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► powers or the crazy situations out of [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► the equation right stick into different [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► historical context of the thing I IA i [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► liked about unstable molecules it was [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► really taking the fantastic out of the [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► Fantastic Four [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► yeah I and then you know when you [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► started thinking about because it ends [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► with sort of the the party in the [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► meeting and so in your mind you're like [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► oh and then Stanley went home and [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► created the Fantastic Four and we all [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► know that originally Kirby and Stan Lee [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► kind of run and artwork and it was [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► fantastic and then that sort of imagery [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► and like what I brought to the table [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► with the history the Fantastic Four and [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► how like fantastic and cosmic at all is [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► really brought the fact this was like [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► people's daily lives will use your body [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► for right had made that contrast so [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► great and then you compare to your own [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► life and like why people started reading [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► the comics for escapism to begin with uh [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► yeah when I was really interesting and [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► I'm which johnny and his friend do they [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► think conversations of right about about [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► the comics and identify this comic from [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► me describing this panel and things like [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► that that's definitely a part of what [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► they're doing there [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► I would love to know if the writers are [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► influenced by the sopranos because one [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► of the things that one of the themes [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► that arc through that entire series was [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► that no matter how much you may want to [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► change your basic nature it is your [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► basic nature you know and that was the [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► end of the series 2 which is that [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► despite being in therapy for years Tony [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► never really changes he just has a [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► better vocabulary for figuring out who [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► he is and it seemed like this with [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► unstable molecules every change these [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► guys made was a result of who they were [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► already not who they wanted to be or or [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► you know they were limited by they were [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► limited by the nate by the very nature [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► who they were [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► which is almost the opposite of any [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► other superhero comic which is oh you [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► can fly the world is your oyster or if [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► you read Richard oh you bring the [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► construction any direction you can solve [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► any problem known to [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► and all right because that's that's the [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► that's the Marvel way right as the [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► powers are sort of formed with the with [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► the character and you along with the [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► character you don't get the you know you [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► get the powers then that you don't [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► always get the powers that you you want [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► to get the house she deserves [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► maybe you get the powers you deserve [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► yeah i know that this is sort of Stanley [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► model i think in some ways which is why [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► it's kind of fascinating that you have [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► invisible girl the 1960s because i [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► really wonder what sort of feminist to [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► subtext there is to that you're right [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► which is address after dead-on and [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► enable medical schools where she feels [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► sometimes she's visible and invisible [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► yeah exactly and there's the terrible [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► women and in the Bookroom rato gentle it [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► oh man I mean it fits that's where the [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► real Slim is it was just awful [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► yeah yeah oh I i'm also i mean obviously [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► one of the things that that unstable [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► molecules is about is about the creative [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► process it is about taking elements from [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► a world and its reverse engineering [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► right but it's taking elements from the [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► real world and then how do you as a [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► creator weave these into that thing that [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► that is fantastic and amazing and so [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► throughout how do you take these crappy [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► lives and turn them into escapist fare [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► well right and so and it's funny because [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► you're playing spot the reference but at [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► the same time it really makes you think [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► that not only do you have these four [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► characters but you've got in in the [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► first issue I think Reed is talking [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► about how he's getting sued by a former [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► lab assistant of his who's like victor [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► von domm or something like that and it's [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► very obvious that that's like he tells [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► the story about how he's got this awful [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► guy who came from Eastern Europe and [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► stole his stole his ideas and and maybe [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► because dr. doom and Johnny's buddy who [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► sort of short and fat becomes like a [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► mole man analog and and throughout just [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► like how-to writers take bits of real [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► life and turn them into something that [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► is altogether or mostly different anyway [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► if not altogether different [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► wow I just a blown your minds ok let's [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► talk about her being really concur [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► yeah we concur and looking for what [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► about the artwork [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► ok please to be you know guy davis and i [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► think is one of the most underrated [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► artists in the the [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► business now and he certainly he's the [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► best one of the best storytellers if not [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► the best storyteller working his panel [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► to panel flow is is so seamless that you [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► don't even really notice the transitions [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► that you just kind of read through very [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► smoothly and it's like you're watching a [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► scene play out you know he don't lie i [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► think he's not as big as other artists [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► because he draws real people and not [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► real in the Bryan Hitch ultra-realistic [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► movie way but really isn't [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► they're all 20 pounds overweight dumpy [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► nobody is fantastically beautiful the [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► no not at all yeah he's currently he [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► does the BPRD in the hellboy [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► universities a regular artist on that [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► and his own mark mark ebook which is [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► excellent but you know for this kind of [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► story that's like about real people in [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► the real world he gets like the [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► architecture and the clothing and the [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► expressions and is his artwork is just [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► on the sort of side of cartoony but it [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► flows it has just enough lines to get [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► the kind of mood across like a good [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► cartoonist and just the story flows from [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► panel to panel to panel beautifully it [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► also borrows pretty heavily from the [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► comics conventions of the 1960s in a no [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► Marge way without completely replicating [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► them which I really liked and whoever [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► the colorist is on this did a brilliant [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► job as well because the colors also have [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► that great late 1950s early nineteen [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► sixties atomic pastels feel to them [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► something I noticed in the art is that I [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► think there's a dual reference here is [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► in the last issue [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► sue has has created this party for for [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► all of reeds people from the University [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► and he hasn't even shown up yet and we [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► see her stressing out before everybody [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► gets there in the next time we see her [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► she's had a few martinis and she's tipsy [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► and what the way it's portrayed she has [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► these bubbles over her head which is [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► funny first I thought well this is kinda [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► like the mundane version of the kirby [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► krackle you know you get those little [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► Bob bubbles all over somebody and [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► they're pulsating with with up with our [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► strange energies from beyond writer yeah [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► and it also of course is the more [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► obvious one that I came to later was [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► it's also that was the invisible girls [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► power right was to make little bubbles [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► and in this case she's got a little bit [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► all around here but they just mean that [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► she's soused it's very good but uh but [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► it's it's good i mean it's good stuff [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► and it does not look like anything [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► modern which is which is part of that [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► the really nice thing about the art is [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► that it works really well it's really [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► good but it doesn't look even remotely [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► like something from the 21st century [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► which was published in 2003 I think [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► that's why I remind me so strongly of [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► madness because it's bad men as a [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► serious strives so obviously to [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► replicate the look of the period [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► um this does the same thing except it [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► doesn't quite hit you over the head [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► would look how effective we are looking [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► at atlantic we are it instead what [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► they've done is they've recognized that [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► for modern comics readers are used to [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► certain compositions and certain [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► illustration styles and then it somehow [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► manages to marry those back to the [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► things that people are reading in [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► nineteen fifties and sixties and it it [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► gives it this really beautiful period [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► feel without it feeling anachronistic if [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► that makes sense [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► mhm it's almost if if you weren't paying [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► attention you wouldn't notice you would [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► just go with it but when you start to [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► pay attention there's all those layers [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► there that's actually this I think it's [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► actually signed a really good comics [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► illustration is when it takes you awhile [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► to unpack it and realize exactly how [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► well it's done as opposed to people you [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► know they would look my costume has [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► patches look right which is anyway I [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► think guy davis is one of the best [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► artists working today [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► I think I think there's an argument to [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► be made that comics are always met made [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► to be read more than once because you're [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► a kid and you get it and you want to [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► know what happens and you rip through it [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► right so first time a can help you see [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► what's on the next page of somebody's [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► fighting over there i got a hurry to get [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► through it all and that's read one right [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► and then and then I maybe I i assume [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► people do this when it's not just me and [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► then you go back and then you you know [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► what's gonna happen but now you're [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► really making the journey and in digging [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► down into each panel [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► yes sadly I think that less true did [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► with today's comics that are written [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► more for the the trade paperbacks then [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► it was you know back when we were kids [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► reading comics the i/o if you read an [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► issue of the Mighty Avengers today and [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► then read it again in a week and another [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► I'm another week i'm not sure you would [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► get more nuanced out of it because it's [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► already compressed or because it's so [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► decompressed that you don't like I think [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► in the decompression process all of [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► those nuances float away and have have [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► gone out because it's about more big [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► splashes and explosions and the fact [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► that artists are paid by the page and as [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► our writers so the more volume right if [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► you write less stuff but make it on more [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► pages [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► yeah i can see that i mean i still think [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► that there are just start the pictures [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► have detail that if you're really [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► reading through and sort of saying okay [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► and he says this and then fight and then [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► he says this and then this happened [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► thing happens you know you're you're not [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► necessarily going to drink in what's [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► actually on the pages i think that just [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► the just the going back and noticing [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► that the nuances of the art but you me [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► and some people don't do it right I [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► think that's the other part of it is [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► some people just kind of ripped through [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► it and get the story and they move on [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► and they're not focused on now I can [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► jump onto a comic store and let my [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► opinion note I guess I guess what I'm [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► saying is that it's just something that [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► really can unfold in the rereading it [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► doesn't necessarily not everything [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► necessarily doesn't unfold and not that [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► many readers necessarily do it but that [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► I think there's there's some natural [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► levels there by the way I had I i [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► interviewed the in advance new york [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► comicon interview the president of dark [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► horse and the richardson yes and he [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► referred to [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► he was talking about their the digital [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► comics initiative which is now old news [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► although i think it's being announced in [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► about two hours as we record this but [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► it's old news by the time you listen to [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► this dear listener but he referred to [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► what what you call the flimsies he [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► referred to them as pamphlets right [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► which is a common term actually in the [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► industry which is which is a good term [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► and it gets the same thing across so [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► that that person on Twitter who said [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► stop calling them limbs you're driving [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► me crazy it's all right we'll call an [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► ambulance now [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► yeah but because that's what they are [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► always think of pamphlets and think of [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► like Revolutionary War I was just signal [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► which were basically the difference if [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► you ever read those though a common [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► sense is not you know [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► oh I've skimmed it and I'm done it's [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► it's a pretty hefty work so yeah let's [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► bring back pamphlet is a descriptive [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► term 444 serialize yes pamphleteers [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► necessary for serialize publications [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► there a gap in [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► looks ya dead tree edition versus the [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► digital edition so to get back to the [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► Invisible Woman the bubbles and so on [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► and so forth one of the things I've [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► always wondered about is she really [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► doesn't use your powers for a whole lot [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► other for a whole lot beyond purely [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► defensive maneuvers and you know it's [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► usually i was super quick block these [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► bricks from playa in a class the classic [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► uses right I don't think some reason i [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► have been a car more offensive well the [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► reason i bring that up is because when [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► you read I'm rising stars one of the the [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► characters and rising stars Joe [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► Straczynski jet just rozinsky is rising [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► star series one of the characters little [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► dark Haven her power is being able to [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► create very small force fields or or you [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► know pinch thinks open or closed [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► she's my staff she becomes a trained [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► assassin because the carotid artery is [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► about as big as her force field extends [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► and that got me thinking you know I and [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► this may be because i haven't widely [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► read the the Fantastic Four but why have [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► has it never occurred to sue storm that [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► she's got this tremendous offensive [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► power that she could use i think in the [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► the in preparation for this podcast i [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► reread the burn run which is of course [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► the second greatest run of the Fantastic [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► Four after the kirby lee run and then I [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► reread the hitch will our run which is a [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► more recent one and in the the hitch [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► more run if she does I believe uses her [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► she makes people's optic nerves [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► invisible that's making them blind and [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► and so some more things along those [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► lines not killing people because yeah [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► that actually does your planetary to [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► wear her in a lot where where the storm [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► analogue spoiler [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► this is from analog in planetary because [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► her optic nerves have become invisible [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► her husband has to build her a pair of [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► goggles that she can actually see and it [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► was just the thought the fact that [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► someone thought this through the logical [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► conclusion i was really coming [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► you're right if you turn invisible [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► everything transition [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► you're stomping around like a around [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► unless you take your retinas visible [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► in which case your your easy to find [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► loading disk so we're not sugar but she [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► said I mean I remember things where it's [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► like I create a force field and use it [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► to punch reading it matters that but [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► it's not particular day basically she's [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► a telekinetic intresting alright because [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► it's invisible bubbles right [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► The Voice founders are probably a [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► problematic character I mean there's a [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► there's a reason why they it's it's what [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► it's violet in the incredible yeah has [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► who has the senior who wishes she could [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► be I'm singled and she's all and she's [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► all defensive to she's she's making [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► bubbles just protect the family that's [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► her role Sam deal [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► yeah I find vilest problematically [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► character because again when you're 14 [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► years old there are times when you're [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► like oh if only the earth would open up [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► and swallow me and this kid can have it [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► happen so in some ways it's it's almost [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► wish fulfillment it's also a great [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► metaphor for learning how to grapple [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► with your adolescent demons right when [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► you're talking about a grown woman it's [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► more it's more awkward in especially as [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► society has evolved since the early [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► sixties to have a grown woman mother [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► because of course the family dynamic has [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► evolved over time to married [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► mother-of-two I believe now [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► yes Tom and have her still be the you [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► know my power is to hide like I said [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► I've always wanted to be a problematic [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► character actually being five or six [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► years old and watching the Fantastic [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► Four animated series and this one [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► believed not sticks in my head 30-odd [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► years later we're sooo goes to her [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► portrait taken and so it in an evening [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► gown no less and it turns out it's an [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► elaborate ruse by dr. doom to kidnap her [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► I had no Doctor Doom has his own photo [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► studio that during raids well this is [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► the thing it was a camera where the [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► minute the minute the lens snap these [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► ropes came out and bounds to head to [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► foot and offers out of the camera [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► yes yes and she freaks the hell out [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► pardon my language and they spend the [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► rest of the episode trying to try to [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► rescue her and I even as a five-year-old [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► I was all what the fudge why mention my [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► way she's forced to behold the face if [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► you will that sounds like a platform in [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► spider-man 67 [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► squares i have this normal object know [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► haha there are ropes that was better [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► than you are mine and yeah it's just [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► like dr. doom agassi dr. doing that [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► cartoon series was kind of like a wily [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► coyote feelin and anyway yes everybody [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► always dr. doom [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► yeah it was every scheme no matter how [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► elaborately setup and always failed [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► that's what makes these cartoons not so [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► sophisticated no sixties and seventies [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► really card us so maybe it's the cartoon [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► impression it's always you know maybe [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► look at su with a sort of but even if [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► you go back and take a look at the [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► seventies or sixties you had a role [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► monroe and Jean Grey and Kitty Pryde and [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► all of them seem to have a lot more [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► autonomy and a lot more respect from [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► their colleagues / friends and Sue Storm [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► ever gets you know I was like oh come on [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► you know you're super powered and the [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► best you can do is complain that no [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► one's coming to dinner so one of the [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► things that i liked about ultimate [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► Fantastic Four is that not only did it [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► replace the older man younger woman [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► relationship with two people of the same [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► age but he sue is the field leader [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► because that is is a leader and is [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► really smart and is actually if not if [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► not on par with read she is just a one [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► step down on the on the on the [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► scientific smarts department and then [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► she's got all of these other skills and [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► she you know she she kicks ass and in [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► that in and it's a it was interesting to [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► see the choices that they made to really [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► reset the dynamic there and how how in a [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► 20th 21st century context perhaps that [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► relationship could we fix this [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► relationship a little bit make them more [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► witness the return elastic stretchy dude [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► and visit land you're going to do and [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► actually read is portrayed an ultimate [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► Fantastic Four especially as being kind [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► of a kind of a screw-up now and there [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► that you know he is father can't stand [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► to be socially incompetent he's an [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► isolated as he gets them almost killed [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► yeah well although I look at the [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► ultimate Fantastic Four almost as a [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► cheat like right al [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► they will they know they changed the age [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► of Reed & and did that you brought you [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► up to try to explain the relationship [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► where if you look at the mill our hitch [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► run again at which interestingly enough [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► was they had just come off the ultimate [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► with a huge commercial success [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► and it was like all this publicity the [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► next book they're gonna do and they [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► start putting out teaser images of [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► panels and and the next book was the [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► Fantastic Four and I think the first [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► couple issues sold really well and then [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► it basically tanked because people [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► weren't interested in the characters or [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► whatever but I happen to think that run [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► is so great because it focuses on the [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► family dynamic and the introduces old [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► character whose name I forget which is a [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► su refers to her as mrs fantastic [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► she's essentially Reed Richards as a [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► woman and a tjs she was back in the [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► original kirby lee Ron she's an old [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► character was like he dated in college [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► and she was his equal and super smart [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► and she's doing this big scientific [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► thing in in the comics and here of [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► course runs off with her and there's a a [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► lot of the story is about y su isn't [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► threatened by her or some of the [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► interesting things the relationship [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► between Sue and read and they kind of [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► elevate it and make it work and not [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► another even opposites attract like she [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► grounds him kind of thing but she's got [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► that earthy with mine it wasn't even [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► like that it was Arabic writing book [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► learning it was it was it was a much [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► subtler than that but they did it in in [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► such a way that she came off as a very [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► strong female interesting character that [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► you have a late and it made sense why [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► Boober genius read was attracted to her [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► and she didn't have to be super genius [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► for him to be attracted to make a [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► relationship work they clicked and it [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► was awesome seeing if it was their [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► anniversary dinner just one of those [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► nice quiet moments in a comic but they [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► don't rarely do anymore it was their [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► anniversary he went back in time took [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► her to a restaurant back in time so they [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► could sit in the restaurant she's like [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► why'd you bring me here we go what [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► significance and he's like a look and it [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► shows them it's basically the younger [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► them on the street meeting for the very [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► first time and so that was his romantic [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► gesture was like bringing them back to [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► so they could watch their first meeting [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► and I was like wow that's actually [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► really very thoughtful very thoughtful [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► yeah and it it was it made the [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► relationship work without having to [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► change it like Ultimates did because I [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► couldn't figure out how to make it work [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► that's why i say ultimate is kind of a [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► cheat it's easy to make them the same [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► you make them equal sure now they can be [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► together but to do it in a way that [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► they're not equals and yet the [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► relationship works which also could be [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► why you know it didn't sell very well [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► well it is the ultimate is a different [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► dynamic I I mean ultimate is in itself a [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► achieve it by that definition because [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► the whole idea is we take this and we're [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► kind of reimagining it and so the [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► balance of power shifts and ultimate [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► Fantastic Four Sue's dad is the general [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► and he's the one who gets them the [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► distance a building that they can have [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► all their labs and we're as ready as [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► sort of a self-made man in many ways and [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► family has disowned him and last time I [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► checked he had died i think he blew [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► himself up and they killed him and in [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► some marvel ultimate event he's actually [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► still alive is he still alive but sent [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► to the negative zone or something like [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► that I don't think he's secretly working [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► in a lab at this point or something like [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► that of course because they wouldn't [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► actually have the guts to kill the guy [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► even in the ultimate university that [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► they always like this [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► the second-stringers like the the lost [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► got eaten by the blob and things like [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► that right [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► no its disgusting yeah anyway so I hello [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► different dynamic and I have that I [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► thought if the point of the Ultimate [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► Universe is to say well what if we did [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► what if we reimagine how this might work [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► in a modern context having it be [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► different and have and say let's explore [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► what it's like with this sort of [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► different dynamic for the fantastic [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► right I thought that really worked and I [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► thought the ultimate Fantastic Four [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► started out really promising Lee didn't [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► start out strong and then kind did start [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► strong write as many of the old Mick [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► titles did yeah this is the minute you [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► start working in the traditional [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► villains I or or oh it's von doom or or [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► you know in the case of the ex minute he [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► started bringing back sinister whoever [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► like here we go this is a nod to the [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► continuity people right ultimate version [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► of X alright you know for example to the [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► next one I thought was a lot more [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► interesting when it turned out that [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► Logan had infiltrated the team because [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► he was on someone else's payroll and [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► screwed the dynamics and the trust and [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► then next thing you know [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► hey it's resolved let's move on to [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► something else right and those with [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► stuff is better when it's things like [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► kitty pryde moving next door Peter [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► Parker and getting him because like what [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► that would what that that's impossible [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► that could never happen and like all [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► right that that that kind of stuff but [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► you're right they have a tendency to [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► back it off and say well no we we don't [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► want to go down these roads which is the [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► whole point of the alternate universe [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► was to do something different [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► and the weird thing is although i do [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► like the Fantastic Four I think the one [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► character that I don't kind of cock an [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► eyebrow tis is the thing just I think [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► Benjamin Graham is a fantastic character [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► inside and out and he's the only one I [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► don't really feel ambivalent about for [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► example with well because yeah I know [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► what you said because with Johnny Storm [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► it no matter what iteration you have [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► easy he's always kind of a self-involved [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► sure quite an almost every student that [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► are really actually in the the yeah the [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► best single line in the the hitch malhar [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► book was as he was going off to join [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► this new band and talk to his publicist [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► and all this stuff is sue says my god my [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► brother is Harris Hilton Paris Hilton [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► yeah he could be very serviceable from [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► whoshere the Melbourne has helped [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► exactly anything when you think about [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► that is like yet that's Johnny Storm and [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► that's actually not an uninteresting [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► character in that kind of content [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► writers kind of exasperated in a way and [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► I I guess you're thinking about Ben [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► Grimm which is always fascinated me is [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► in many ways I feel like he's kind of [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► the most heroic of the four of them kind [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► of lute ly you've got a guy who doesn't [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► he can never blend he's never going to [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► be able to disguise himself and walk [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► among the normals and he is one of the [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► forces of will that keeps this this [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► cobbled family together despite having [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► the length of the lease sturdy claim to [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► any of them I mean he's not married any [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► of them he's not related by blood [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► no he just a schoolchild just flew a [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► rocket for his buddy and what we got for [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► he's kind of like a meteorite mixed with [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► a doula and if it and he's got the [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► wisdom of Brooklyn behind him yes he's [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► got this really large battle story where [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► you know he's got this really rich [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► backstory where it turns out he's Jewish [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► and shiver for people and he actually [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► had a bar mitzvah when he spent his [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► first 13 years is the thing because he [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► figured you know today I became a new [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► man compared to when I was just benjamin [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► graham and that kind of selflessness [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► they do a really the reddest voice [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► always did a really good job of not [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► beating you over the head with it where [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► you know it's kind of submerged and so [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► he loves Pete said he loves to arm [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► wrestle with Colossus and he's always [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► quickie and again I feel like he's the [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► real unsung hero of the series and it [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► always kind of baffled me that Reed [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► Richards is always the leader of the [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► team when he's the idea guy for the team [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► everybody else kind of does the heavy [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► lifting when it comes to execution [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► well I'm Ben [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► been sort of the moral is the grounded [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► one right i mean you have to say it [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► that's sort of the idea identities that [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► he's the earthy grounded got some [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► sterile analogues to Earth Wind to earth [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► fire air and water [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► I guess he is the grounded one asked me [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► to see the earth analog and reduce the [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► water analog and soon as the air analog [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► you know in back in the mid-70s a [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► recognized he was the most important [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► character and made a cartoon of just the [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► thing if you don't remember max here I [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► would have loved to see that but i dont [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► even Marvel team-up to write you would [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► who works better with others than the [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► thing about her man would be it you can [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► Wolverine for some reason to and one [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► full version is it on like five [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► different marble teams this point right [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► for this was different i think it a [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► loner thing is also on the Avengers now [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► but the thing cartoon you should youtube [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► it because of course you took the thing [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► and made him a teenager who had thing [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► rings that you would put together and he [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► would say thing rings do your thing and [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► he would become the big rocky guy that [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► kind of undercuts the essential tragedy [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► the character because if you can turn it [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► on and off [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► yeah he also had a dune buggy which is [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► pretty cool and everybody's and [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► remarried is the best parts of boys it [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► was the it was the thing Flintstones our [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► system and in the opening animation you [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► have fun with Fred Flintstone and the [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► teenager with his thing rings doing his [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► thing and grim the teenager I really [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► glad you too much so I would learn too [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► late they took to grasp that right i [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► only have vague memories of it [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► oh and i was like one day I did look on [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► youtube and sure enough [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► oh I hope it gets to hulu at some point [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► every or that the Japanese spider-man is [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► was my find on the internet if you see [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► the Japanese a better man show [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► marvel.com was actually streaming that [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► for he had the big robots 00 it is it's [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► like it's like a manatee of Agriculture [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► man or anything like that extent our [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► Rangers considered accepting spider-man [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► oh no I when he can't beat the villain [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► he gets into his giant spider man robot [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► yes seriously there there so you know [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► it's funny more have profound [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► ambivalence about robots and comics [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► culture anyway so why not make it better [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► so Marvel had this whole the whole [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► period in the sixties and seventies [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► world where they did the licensing need [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► a live-action stuff and they're Japanese [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► shows they're all [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► all these cartoons and I you know the [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► the original spider-man cartoon and [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► spider-man and his amazing friends [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► the Fantastic Four cartoon where they [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► dropped the human torch because they [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► were afraid kids we try to light [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► themselves on fire and stuck in the [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► robot and had her beautiful bottoms dead [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► yesterday and had that story [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► ya see that it right the whole and [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► Herbie was evil when controlled by the [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► time computer that's right and they also [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► had that kid who did who is a fan of the [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► human torch in the comic who lit himself [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► on fire [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► I say and then one of those heartwarming [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► somatic tell ya [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► so they went through that period and [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► then Marvel had been it's sort of [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► financial problems and some bad deals [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► and didn't do anything for a long time [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► and then it came out of that the end of [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► the nineties and started again with [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► another wave of things like the x-men [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► movies in the spider-man movies and [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► horrible and we will Fantastic Four to [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► Fantastic Four movie I dragged my [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► husband to the first one that was a [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► payback thing for you owe me and and I'm [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► going to make you suffer through this [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► and i didn't realize i would also be [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► suffering that's it [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► yes heard bad i actually thought the [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► second was better than the first one and [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► I said yeah right because somebody asked [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► me about this and no no I'm not saying [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► it's good i'm just saying it's better [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► than the right the first ones we have in [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► the cold having a flow [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► the first one is so abysmal amazingly [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► terrible that it's mind-boggling at [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► least the second one has sort of you [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► know [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► laurence fishburne is the voice of the [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► silver surfer Andre Braugher is the [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► general yeah there's there's there's [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► some Galactus stuff although they below [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► the Galactic story by making it not it [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► as interesting as the either ultimate [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► Fantastic Four's Galactus or the regular [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► Galactus it's just kind of a flock of [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► black sea galley things that it sits [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► right I think that's fantastic for movie [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► was the incredibles be incredible yeah [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► well the the live action one with [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► strangers they got so much of the [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► casting right [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► for example i will i will argue that you [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► and Griffin could have been a great [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► mister mister fantastic and i would [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► argue exactly the haha because he just [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► has that as a screen presence he always [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► has that kind of remove any way and [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► it's it's sort of that mmm yes sir i'm [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► floating in the ether of my big thoughts [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► and and I thought that presence work [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► well but he just connected with nobody [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► but i see i actually didn't get that [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► sort of ether edge got that he was so [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► slight both physically like his if he [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► had such a slight president yeah and I [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► don't think of your injury does even [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► though Reed Richards is often his own [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► hair back to that doctor who had podcast [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► matt smith's rendition of the doctor is [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► much more mr. fantastic then that guy's [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► was as mr. fantastic you're right you're [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► you know your sort of Rights that sort [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► of scattered and i'm not entirely [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► connected to humanity write the music [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► Chris Evans who plays the human torch i [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► actually thought encapsulated some of [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► that I'm are on my amateur common [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► rockstar right i don't care who you are [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► and you simply science has an obvious [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► that right let's go check it was a good [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► thing and which is why it's a little [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► strange in because i started watching no [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► ordinary family right which is basically [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► it's almost another dimension we posted [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► a podcast about how did I wish I'd yes [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► made the time for that but you know [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► which is basically a variation on the [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► Fantastic Four [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► yes and what it is so it's a little bit [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► of a cognitive distance to have Chiklis [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► is it playing again the thing except [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► without the big scaling right stuff in a [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► rocks this time yet rocks are expensive [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► yeah but you know I thought chipper was [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► great i will make the argument for you [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► and Griffin I think Julian McMahon was [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► very good as dr. doom because he sort of [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► traffic's not kind of medicine tourism [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► didn't want to say anything I didn't [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► like him at all [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► you know maybe it's because i also [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► watched nip talk and he was really good [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► as as just a complete moral voice on [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► that show so so that carried over was [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► why I was was horribly constructed where [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► he was just like a a wrong guy who [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► wanted to steal the Terran I think [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► documents are you to do one film why and [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► I've been in hollywood filled with lots [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► and lots of blonde waspy starlets do you [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► go with Jessica Jessica Alba so yes in a [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► movie with arguably many casting [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► problems [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► jessica alba was the biggest she's so [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► vapid right and soon let's just go to [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► the road that invisible in a second to [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► first off you take you take the the the [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► hot girl who's who's famous because [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► she's hot and you make her in visible [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► brilliant [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► yeah right and and then you know okay [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► dr. that already has some problems as [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► we've discussed with with how she's [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► portrayed and what her role is and then [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► you give that part to somebody who is [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► capable of standing there looking pretty [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► tiny that's the aside from checklist [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► they really didn't hire actors who could [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► act they hired pretty people who are [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► good at being pretty which works for the [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► human torch I i argue right so maybe [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► that was just now that I can't look at [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► it anymore after america which I those [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► pictures of multiple freaky [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► yeah I don't know yeah I'm nervous about [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► that casting as well yeah I just think [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► they missed the mark where the knowing [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► the x-men which that those films had [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► some problems to it always bothered me [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► that Hugh Jackman doesn't look like [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► wolverine he's not what he seems way too [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► tall and all the others a ranking at [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► least he could act okay [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► andrena right now he got he nailed it [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► right even though good actor he didn't [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► you like it to me but he was will bring [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► right that is the higher good actors [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► sort of role for superheroes Fantastic [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► Four just missed that like day in class [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► with ya the studio's higher good actor [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► yeah well to sidebar from and there's [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► things there's a story circle and [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► circulate last week about hiring jon [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► hamm to play Superman and in the i think [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► was well you'd have to go with some of [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► the Superman is obviously age since jon [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► Hamm's very visibly in his late thirties [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► as opposed to the fresh-faced [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► 20-somethings that have occupied the [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► world before the whole key of Superman [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► is man [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► yeah but he needs to yeah well that's my [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► super boy [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► yeah and it got me thinking about how [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► difficult it is actually to cast for any [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► of these any of these things because it [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► comes down to the tension between really [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► attractive people because let's face it [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► most superheroes are our pen ready brand [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► x we're good-looking me giving well they [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► are always and women always have [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► anti-gravity breasts are apparently just [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► a superpower every woman so you know how [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► do you find somebody who is presumably [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► attractive enough to to be physically [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► believable and yet capable of managing [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► to act and it's it's gotta be tough but [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► you just hire actors who can play the [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► parts like you know you can say that [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► Downey jr. there doesn't actually look [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► like a tony stark or multi-millionaire [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► industrialist got it [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► that's right the busted but that's a [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► whole thing you totally believe it yeah [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► because he can act [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► yeah yes Denzel Washington once [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► commented that if Hollywood was casting [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► race blind he would have been a good [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► Superman and the more I thought about it [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► the more I thought that yeah absolutely [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► I would have totally I would have [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► totally bought Denzel Washington is a [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► Superman especially since I was on [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► Denzel Washington is james bond that's [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► it has that calls you always have you [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► and your husband cast the the black [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► adventures [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► now we on I just I know you guys like to [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► play casting case isn't ever could [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► explain okay so i'm giving her a blank [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► look right outside bar [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► ok sidebar the sidebar my husband and I [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► were talking after with the denzel [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► washington movie i began ranting and [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► raving about how there's an entire [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► generation of minority actors who [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► actually would make fantastic [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► superheroes for example i was i was [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► arguing that Dwayne Johnson could [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► plausibly play Superman like character [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► or any superhero [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► I mean he's got charisma the--in yang [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► the man can rock spandex as we saw from [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► his WWE days you know and he's kind of [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► like a rock looking he's cooking [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► superhero soup [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► yeah so that and what this turned into [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► is is my husband saying okay let's turn [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► back now into an african-american [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► character which again is very similar to [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► what J michael Straczynski did with his [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► squadron supreme pizzas that was a [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► budget supreme and I thought okay Don [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► Cheadle Batman that's obvious and so [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► instead of being rohde & and be more [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► machine and I'm you have to get that and [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► we went and we basically the casting [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► everybody from there and I said this is [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► why do Jason's look at discuss [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► nationwide casting game is so much fun [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► yeah is that it brings out sort of [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► everybody's vision everybody's carrying [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► really right way but i think is their [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► sample else argued the Queen Latifah [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► could be Commissioner Gordon because [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► she's just got the best i'm down like [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► I'm yeah yeah yeah I'm and Andre has [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► sounds like a seventies not my patient [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► my dream actually I think it's better [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► because i thought well you know you have [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► Andre Braugher as the riddler because [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► the way you would write this Riddler is [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► he'd be so much smarter than the rest of [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► humanity feel profoundly isolated and [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► resentful and he'd be acting on that and [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► Andre barrister kind of actor who can [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► convincingly you know portray that while [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► i slowly know that he's cuckoo for cocoa [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► since this is an interesting thing to [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► explore because there are characters [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► like Batman that there's there's [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► many many many different interpretation [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► right are all valid Batman last Michael [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► Ryton fell Kilmer language Clooney but [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► you know that you have super detective [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► Batman the world's greatest detective [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► you also have my parents were killed I'm [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► a psychopath Batman and everything in [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► between [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► that would be a social activist he'd be [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► rich either through his own making or [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► through inherited money and he'd be [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► taking a look at his disintegrating [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► Gotham which is a Baltimore analog or [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► Detroit analog and he'd be like clearly [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► the system isn't working on making [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► myself the system and but you have that [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► to read for the wire version that man [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► without a consignment Batman but the the [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► thing is fantastic for me to bring this [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► back full circle of fantastic for it [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► doesn't have those different versions [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► know it's a reason there's many villages [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► Richards is Reed Richards let you know [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► Batman has all these different [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► iterations so which makes casting hard [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► you wouldn't think fantastic for which [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► has no iterations really like everybody [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► Ben Grimm is Ben Grimm and there isn't [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► like there was the happy Ben Grimm the [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► well the difficult lyrics right [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► the difficulty is Reed Richards kind of [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► a tough character crack and I think some [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► of that well I mean he's he's a he's a [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► an egghead he's a leader sort supposedly [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► he's a man of action because he's got [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► these superpowers [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► I think one of the reasons that it might [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► be hard to cast Reed Richards is because [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► that character is kind of a weird [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► amalgam of traits and and some creators [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► have done better with him than others [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► right you know Ben Grimm is easier right [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► and johnny is actually easier [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► sooo i think you know just we're gonna [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► miss with just cal but they were there [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► are better options that the actor Reno [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► you can fit on lots of different [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► directions [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► Robert Downey jr. could probably even do [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► Reed Richards home [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► are you guys familiar with the site [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► mighty God king.com know it's a Canadian [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► writers name and lawyers name is [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► Christopher Byrd and he blogs about [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► comics a lot of the site called mighty [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► God king.com and back when Marvel did [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► Civil War arc and all the titans he [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► really basically rewrote the dialogue is [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► a parody and satire and the reason I [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► bring this up is because i actually [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► think he's got one of the most spot on [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► Reed Richards where he's managed to make [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► a parody of the character but [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► get to the heart of the the guy who [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► again you know was thinking on a [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► completely different plane as the rest [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► of us where the very last issue that he [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► rewrote his Reed Richards writing a [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► letter to see which is we have two [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► children don't worry i think the girl in [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► the boy if that's what they are I think [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► they miss you and you and I go to end [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► its hilarious at the same time without [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► yeah this guy has managed to nail his [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► character and that's part of the problem [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► is American cinema has kind of been a [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► reflexive tendency to really dislike [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► intellectuals like they just think that [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► audiences can connect with them right [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► and there has to be there has to be more [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► than being huge brain it no not always [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► sometimes you just have somebody who's [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► really smart and they're much smarter [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► than you are and yeah I'm not sure I [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► believe will get that that read in the [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► live-action fantastic four movies was [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► that smart [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► no I didn't feel smart from you have I [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► told us he was smart I think that's what [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► they try think that's where Howard [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► Griffin was trying to play it as though [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► you know I think my lofty thoughts and I [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► don't think through the consequences and [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► so I spent a lot of time looking stunned [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► in the headlights that mark guy because [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► he really did i will i will give you [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► guys this he really did spend a lot of [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► time both movies just kind of like Shh [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► what just happened oh my god right [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► before projections didn't take this into [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► account even if you're that smart they [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► do they should [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► yeah it's the thought 36 things down the [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► road I think it's back to the American [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► devaluation of of brainpower words oh [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► you think you're so smart but you didn't [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► think about this their digital Einstein [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► your you know I checked you're right we [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► do values to pity George would work with [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► the people who wanted the people and [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► artists one nothing with Stephen Colbert [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► to right right yeah we're smart enough [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► to know what's real [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► without the need of fat readiness and [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► yes that truthiness is what is important [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► yeah i think you know so I think about [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► what I know it's what I feel in here [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► yeah i feel that i might know thanks for [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► evidence so so before we go because [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► we're running out of time [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► um I wanted to get Jason you seem to [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► have done the most homework here what we [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► anybody want to throw out as the [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► essential reading if they want to if [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► they're struck by this podcast to go [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► back and read some fantastic four will [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► throw in any way to spend well I'm [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► stupid unstable molecules worth a look [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► unstable molecules i think is actually [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► just a good comic if you like comics I [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► agree I [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► great nothing to do with the Fantastic [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► Four it's just a good read it is now the [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► original you read the original leaker p [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► run i have the holdup [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► no yeah no it doesn't hold up in the [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► sense that you know you would put it [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► against like comics today as far as [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► storytelling and paste and all that but [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► for like a view of sixties mentality you [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► know that they're getting into the [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► rocket and those original strips there's [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► a great panel were like yeah I think Ben [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► Graham says oh you know maybe I don't [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► know if this is ready yet and Reed [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► Richards response do you want the [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► commies to beat us you are you Howard [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► you so just the sort of Cold War sixties [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► mentality in the comic it's great and [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► Kirby's artwork is fantastic and it was [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► just the beginning not intended [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► that's considered to be their best work [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► right meow again and the introduction of [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► the silver surfer and Galactus and [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► there's some great stuff right in there [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► but it's more anthropological like it's [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► an interesting trip [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► how does the burn run hold up burn run [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► holds up really really well in my mind [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► that's like it has a set different [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► science fiction it also has those great [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► character moments [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► although it doesn't hold up as them as a [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► family as much more interested in them [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► as individuals and the science-fiction [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► aspects of I when he brought the [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► she-hulk into yeah that was kind of fun [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► isn't just a do not everybody there was [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► so many stories and like you had in the [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► eighties we're halfway through the issue [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► you're like is this one issue because [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► you get a complete story with a [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► beginning middle and they go somewhere [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► the introduces new science fiction [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► concepts and some alien has taken over [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► whatever and they're like all caught and [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► then they're escaping and then they get [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► out you're like holy shit that was 22 [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► pages now what wow [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► also watch the doctor who references [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► because john byrne being canadian grand [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► experiment a lot of Doctor Who and and [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► there are so many doctor who references [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► that he sort of lifts actually he were [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► sort of steals things from dr. and puts [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► them in fantastic four students it is [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► that after the kirby run which you can [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► all get an essential paid trade [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► paperbacks which are like 14 box or you [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► can get in the coffee table [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► hundred-dollar oversized hardcover [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► edition the burn run you can get in [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► trade paperbacks I think there's like [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► nine of them though it was a pretty big [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► yeah run and then i would say the mill [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► our hitch which is much more recent [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► modern storytelling pacing field which [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► is like to trade paper [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► max but to show how bad did commercially [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► they didn't never did like the hardcover [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► oversized which they don't have every [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► other hitch artwork because here the [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► artwork is beautiful but they didn't do [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► it with that they did solicit it but it [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► never came out with on orders were that [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► low which is chalking I think those [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► three there's an interesting uh nothing [TS]