The Incomparable

7: Law & Order: Atlantis


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast episode 7 / [TS]

00:00:10   2010 we are back on the incomparable [TS]

00:00:16   podcast and today we're going to be [TS]

00:00:18   talking about TV [TS]

00:00:20   joining me here is serenity Caldwell ren [TS]

00:00:23   welcome hello thank you [TS]

00:00:25   and by the magic of the interwebs we [TS]

00:00:28   have from the great state of [TS]

00:00:30   Massachusetts dan more'n hi Jason and [TS]

00:00:34   John siracusa greetings everyone [TS]

00:00:36   are you sitting next to each other or [TS]

00:00:38   you in your separate locations if only [TS]

00:00:41   yes you'll never know already sitting [TS]

00:00:43   next to each other alright I like to [TS]

00:00:45   imagine it that way so the the topic is [TS]

00:00:49   TV and I think we we all decided to [TS]

00:00:52   correct me if I'm wrong that we were [TS]

00:00:54   going to talk about the fall TV season [TS]

00:00:56   you know I used to be so excited about [TS]

00:01:00   the fall TV season when it when it [TS]

00:01:03   happened and the new shows that were [TS]

00:01:05   coming on and I cannot imagine a a fall [TS]

00:01:10   season that I have been less interested [TS]

00:01:11   in then this one is there anything for [TS]

00:01:15   me to be excited about this fall [TS]

00:01:17   well it's a little weird right because [TS]

00:01:19   that the TV landscape has changed a lot [TS]

00:01:21   in the last few years and I think that [TS]

00:01:23   especially now with the cable networks [TS]

00:01:26   we see so many shows that debut [TS]

00:01:28   out-of-season like summer shows shows [TS]

00:01:31   the debut debut midseason that it's [TS]

00:01:33   really not as concentrated as it used to [TS]

00:01:35   write used to be every fall you know [TS]

00:01:37   that's when the new shows came out right [TS]

00:01:39   but this stuff is very sprinkled [TS]

00:01:41   throughout the year now and so you know [TS]

00:01:43   I'm sure that the major a lot of the [TS]

00:01:45   stuff aired on the major broadcast [TS]

00:01:47   networks still comes out in the fall but [TS]

00:01:48   yeah it's been it's been a little [TS]

00:01:51   lackluster I feel like this year i think [TS]

00:01:53   a lot of the better shows that are [TS]

00:01:55   coming out are the cable shows really at [TS]

00:01:56   this point the broadcast networks have [TS]

00:01:58   have kind of put themselves in a strange [TS]

00:02:01   position where they have to appeal to so [TS]

00:02:03   many so many people but it really takes [TS]

00:02:05   like a mega-hit to make it i find it [TS]

00:02:07   funny that the the broadcast networks [TS]

00:02:09   still are trying to do something that [TS]

00:02:12   you could consider [TS]

00:02:13   sort of fantasy or sci-fi even though it [TS]

00:02:17   that I think that I suspect that the [TS]

00:02:19   fantasy sci fi audience isn't large [TS]

00:02:20   enough to actually satisfy any broadcast [TS]

00:02:23   network and yet they still try well I [TS]

00:02:26   find their uh I find that desperation [TS]

00:02:28   endearing don't you like this and like [TS]

00:02:30   the networks are just you know we've got [TS]

00:02:33   to do something to get people to watch [TS]

00:02:34   us because we're not capable and we [TS]

00:02:36   can't cursor have nudity right but this [TS]

00:02:37   isn't even see me crying they'll try [TS]

00:02:40   sorts of crazy ideas and I I don't know [TS]

00:02:42   why they keep going back to fantasy sci [TS]

00:02:43   fi you're kind of right like even if you [TS]

00:02:45   have a wildly successful show you won't [TS]

00:02:46   get enough viewers but they see things [TS]

00:02:48   like lost inside you know it can be done [TS]

00:02:50   right that's the dream you know right [TS]

00:02:52   it's possible and the number of if you [TS]

00:02:55   look at the movie industry the number of [TS]

00:02:56   successful especially blockbuster movies [TS]

00:02:59   that are at least science fiction you [TS]

00:03:01   might argue or a fantasy is actually [TS]

00:03:04   pretty large I mean things like Star [TS]

00:03:05   Trek and Star Wars obviously being you [TS]

00:03:07   know at the top of that was all the [TS]

00:03:09   blockbusters right all the movie [TS]

00:03:10   westerns they always on the move like [TS]

00:03:12   sci-fi edge or something right so you [TS]

00:03:14   can't argue even though people do that [TS]

00:03:17   people don't like the sci-fi or that or [TS]

00:03:20   the genre stuff because those are the [TS]

00:03:21   huge hits of the summer but on TV it [TS]

00:03:24   seems like you can't get more than a few [TS]

00:03:26   million people to watch one of those [TS]

00:03:27   shows while they like it into our chunks [TS]

00:03:29   you know some fantasy thing happens as a [TS]

00:03:31   hero to villain a fight in two hours [TS]

00:03:33   it's over if you're gonna get them [TS]

00:03:34   coming back week after week I think [TS]

00:03:36   people have shown what they want to [TS]

00:03:37   happen are you know fights between [TS]

00:03:39   mothers and daughters and unwanted [TS]

00:03:41   pregnancies indonesia and all the things [TS]

00:03:42   you see on like dogs here shows that [TS]

00:03:44   lawyers cops cops that top show is [TS]

00:03:47   remanded and murder in just human drama [TS]

00:03:50   are the longest lasting shows with those [TS]

00:03:52   ridiculous soap operas the ones that run [TS]

00:03:53   for like 50 years being that the obvious [TS]

00:03:55   example that you can just keep the show [TS]

00:03:57   going forever so I think the more [TS]

00:03:58   interesting is that the story is the [TS]

00:04:01   smaller doses the public wanted to be in [TS]

00:04:03   which kind of gets eventually to the [TS]

00:04:05   whole lost backlash in anger you know [TS]

00:04:07   the funny funny thing is that they've [TS]

00:04:09   tried to mix them to write we had like [TS]

00:04:12   space lawyers and space cops and space [TS]

00:04:16   doctors and those haven't worked either [TS]

00:04:18   so people don't even want their lawyers [TS]

00:04:21   in space which way there was there were [TS]

00:04:22   spaced lawyers don't remember Spacely [TS]

00:04:24   where there's basically I thought [TS]

00:04:26   that there was a I thought that was the [TS]

00:04:27   show wasn't it wasn't on ebay stories [TS]

00:04:29   the watcher lawyers right your lawyer I [TS]

00:04:31   was at like century century city that's [TS]

00:04:33   right [TS]

00:04:34   God why do I know that future lawyers [TS]

00:04:35   lawyers from the future where their [TS]

00:04:37   argument that means a clever idea right [TS]

00:04:39   it's like they're arguing cases that you [TS]

00:04:40   could sort of extrapolate from the [TS]

00:04:42   present and the future about like what [TS]

00:04:43   if there was a case about clones and who [TS]

00:04:46   wanted to be free and not be used as [TS]

00:04:48   organ donors again that's more on the [TS]

00:04:50   subjects and the sci-fi subjects and it [TS]

00:04:52   is the characters I mean you look at the [TS]

00:04:53   old cereals like Flash Gordon and things [TS]

00:04:55   like that and I mean that did kind of [TS]

00:04:57   have a serial of the week kind of thing [TS]

00:04:58   that everybody likes so much and stuff [TS]

00:05:00   like bones and castle and that you know [TS]

00:05:02   typical cop dramas you have the series [TS]

00:05:05   like the the big sort of action ideas [TS]

00:05:08   that everybody's trying to cram into [TS]

00:05:09   television this season they kind of [TS]

00:05:11   forget about the human and it tastes [TS]

00:05:13   like the human atmosphere even lost [TS]

00:05:15   I mean the thing that people champion so [TS]

00:05:17   much about lost a zoo the mysteries are [TS]

00:05:18   pretty but we really theoretically care [TS]

00:05:20   about are the characters and I think [TS]

00:05:22   that plays into kind of tvs need who [TS]

00:05:24   it's all about the crossover forwards [TS]

00:05:27   law-and-order Atlantis [TS]

00:05:30   Oh God hmm that's terrifying [TS]

00:05:33   it will sell though people watch the [TS]

00:05:35   sound effect there isn't like Clint love [TS]

00:05:37   da ya slow plugging a slogan of death [TS]

00:05:43   that's right is this is there like a [TS]

00:05:44   fish whose the the judge murmur man if [TS]

00:05:49   you will I'm well i was thinking like a [TS]

00:05:51   normal justice and an alligator bailiff [TS]

00:05:54   I think this is gold i think i think the [TS]

00:05:57   studio should be lining up at the door [TS]

00:05:59   dick wolf is already on that he's [TS]

00:06:00   already printing money and we get [TS]

00:06:02   nothing because he gets all the [TS]

00:06:04   law-and-order money so despite this [TS]

00:06:06   insanity or because of this insanity [TS]

00:06:09   there are some genre TV shows this fall [TS]

00:06:12   NBC is trying its level best to [TS]

00:06:16   duplicate lost [TS]

00:06:18   although it it's fear is that it's going [TS]

00:06:20   to duplicate flash forward with the [TS]

00:06:23   event [TS]

00:06:24   hey Jason what is the event [TS]

00:06:26   unfortunately you cannot be told the [TS]

00:06:29   event you know great experience oh yeah [TS]

00:06:31   that's right rule one of the event is [TS]

00:06:33   that nobody talks about the event [TS]

00:06:36   I say talk about little I i don't know i [TS]

00:06:39   mean the event it do i I saw the second [TS]

00:06:42   episode of the event actually and i miss [TS]

00:06:45   the pilot and I saw the second episode [TS]

00:06:46   although sometimes the second episode [TS]

00:06:48   tells you a lot because if the second [TS]

00:06:49   episode pilots can often be good and [TS]

00:06:52   they spend lots of money on them right [TS]

00:06:53   and then they do the second episode and [TS]

00:06:54   they have a real budget and they they [TS]

00:06:56   are a second episode is very always very [TS]

00:06:58   illuminating yeah and it's hard i mean [TS]

00:07:00   they tend to be bad even good shows the [TS]

00:07:01   second episode tends to be bad because [TS]

00:07:03   I've got to find their footing as a [TS]

00:07:04   series anyway I saw it and I i just had [TS]

00:07:07   that moment of like about my wife just [TS]

00:07:10   that this is ridiculous i'm not watching [TS]

00:07:11   this and and I was like well you know [TS]

00:07:13   it's kind of vaguely compelling in a way [TS]

00:07:15   that I felt about flash forward for a [TS]

00:07:17   while and then but it just seems like [TS]

00:07:19   it's a smattering of of various plot [TS]

00:07:22   points and some wacky I mean there's [TS]

00:07:24   definitely wackiness they they really [TS]

00:07:26   downplayed whether it was a sci-fi or [TS]

00:07:27   not and and then of course at the end of [TS]

00:07:29   the of the pilot and airplane disappears [TS]

00:07:31   through a wormhole [TS]

00:07:32   oh I think it is sci-fi ask your eyes it [TS]

00:07:35   is definitely science fiction and there [TS]

00:07:37   are and there's like a population of of [TS]

00:07:39   people who might be aliens or not and [TS]

00:07:42   then a lot of people jump to the [TS]

00:07:44   conclusion of their aliens but they've [TS]

00:07:45   got our DNA they're just slightly [TS]

00:07:47   different so are they from the future [TS]

00:07:49   which makes it sort of like the 4400 [TS]

00:07:50   that cable show which was about people [TS]

00:07:52   from the future I think coming back [TS]

00:07:54   something like that so you have you guys [TS]

00:07:56   seen it have you guys seen you have been [TS]

00:07:58   watching every episode because I'm that [TS]

00:08:00   desperate for sci-fi and television and [TS]

00:08:03   I don't know why I find myself compelled [TS]

00:08:05   to watch the shows fringes another one [TS]

00:08:06   then I guess we'll talk about later but [TS]

00:08:07   i just want to see this type of story on [TS]

00:08:10   television and no matter how badly done [TS]

00:08:12   it is for example i watched all [TS]

00:08:13   flash-forward I will watch it on the [TS]

00:08:16   event i think is going to be another [TS]

00:08:17   cautionary tale and it's going to be it [TS]

00:08:20   could be like an a prototypical [TS]

00:08:22   cautionary tale of what not to do when [TS]

00:08:24   you're trying to duplicate the [TS]

00:08:26   successful of a program like lost [TS]

00:08:28   because they are doing all the exact [TS]

00:08:30   same things you would do if you were [TS]

00:08:31   trying to imitate lost but go overboard [TS]

00:08:34   let's get all the ridiculousness of lost [TS]

00:08:36   crashing when you're gonna actually [TS]

00:08:37   matched with the realism of 24 [TS]

00:08:40   yeah and they put it in the trailer the [TS]

00:08:41   second I wish I could remember the [TS]

00:08:42   tagline but they say something to the [TS]

00:08:44   effect the subtext of what that said [TS]

00:08:46   that tagline is is unlike that show lost [TS]

00:08:49   we won't keep secrets from you forever [TS]

00:08:51   and drive you crazy we're going to tell [TS]

00:08:52   you everything up front so by the third [TS]

00:08:54   episode they revealed more than lost in [TS]

00:08:56   three seasons right and i think that [TS]

00:08:57   maybe their their eventual undoing to a [TS]

00:08:59   certain yeah like you begin to think [TS]

00:09:00   that questions the questions on this [TS]

00:09:02   show could potentially be interesting [TS]

00:09:05   except they are answering them really [TS]

00:09:07   quickly and I think the one thing that [TS]

00:09:09   this does seem to lack so far that that [TS]

00:09:11   is Ren said that lost really had going [TS]

00:09:13   for it was characters and we don't have [TS]

00:09:16   that on this show yet i think there are [TS]

00:09:18   some good actors but like they're not [TS]

00:09:20   necessarily people is not necessarily a [TS]

00:09:22   character I feel like really invested in [TS]

00:09:24   which ones are good actors what magical [TS]

00:09:25   and mystical thing happened in the first [TS]

00:09:28   in a first season of lost what could you [TS]

00:09:30   point to how many sci-fi elements are [TS]

00:09:32   there in that first season of loss right [TS]

00:09:33   there are things I can always on my [TS]

00:09:35   lawyer there's no way there's there's a [TS]

00:09:36   monster that might or might not be [TS]

00:09:38   supernatural and there's walk walking [TS]

00:09:40   right and as the polar bear and the [TS]

00:09:42   horse that's not so how do ya thats just [TS]

00:09:45   a great girl and mr. but an exotic is [TS]

00:09:47   not specifically sci-fi my point being [TS]

00:09:49   that they took 22 hours to emotionally [TS]

00:09:52   tell character stories with a little [TS]

00:09:54   tinge of of you know sci-fi is a nice [TS]

00:09:58   i'm making hand gestures that ring gonna [TS]

00:10:00   see and it's disconcerting when the when [TS]

00:10:02   the uncomfortable is not just an audio [TS]

00:10:04   podcast anyway uh you know they have the [TS]

00:10:06   time with the with the characters and [TS]

00:10:08   and i feel like these other shows one of [TS]

00:10:09   the problems with thought flash forward [TS]

00:10:11   with the event is that they don't have [TS]

00:10:12   enough confidence in their ability to be [TS]

00:10:15   a good show without all the flashing the [TS]

00:10:17   bang and so they drop in all the crazy [TS]

00:10:20   sci-fi elements and are missing what I [TS]

00:10:22   think made lost work at least for some [TS]

00:10:25   people for a while because I know John [TS]

00:10:28   feels totally ripped off by lost but um [TS]

00:10:31   but they did at least you got to admit [TS]

00:10:32   that they spend time with these [TS]

00:10:34   characters and yeah i think that that [TS]

00:10:35   show does not pay off at all if you're [TS]

00:10:38   not invested in the characters are you [TS]

00:10:39   know totally I know that's pretty much [TS]

00:10:41   what but the payoff is if you believe [TS]

00:10:44   there to be a pale and I think that yeah [TS]

00:10:46   definitely the event doesn't have that [TS]

00:10:48   yet it really has an established a [TS]

00:10:50   strong case for it going in it does [TS]

00:10:53   still have some great story hooks i have [TS]

00:10:55   to say that I think that you know I've [TS]

00:10:58   watched all three episodes i guess and [TS]

00:11:00   the though at least the most recent one [TS]

00:11:03   the cliff the sort of my last seen that [TS]

00:11:05   they review on is a great scene it just [TS]

00:11:08   is really one of those sort of whoa [TS]

00:11:10   what's going on your scenes and not to [TS]

00:11:14   like keep hooking you in for that next [TS]

00:11:15   show but they'll resolve it within the [TS]

00:11:17   first scene of the next show right maybe [TS]

00:11:19   I got even down this was a kid like I [TS]

00:11:21   was bottled my mind was bottle when they [TS]

00:11:22   were like hitting it there that maybe [TS]

00:11:24   these people infiltrating certain ranks [TS]

00:11:26   like they dropped the hint at first when [TS]

00:11:27   they drop it verbally they say hey you [TS]

00:11:29   know they have some guys say on camera [TS]

00:11:30   there maybe you know who knows how [TS]

00:11:32   deeply they've infiltrated the very next [TS]

00:11:34   scene like yep that's kind of what they [TS]

00:11:37   spend you know there's like four [TS]

00:11:38   episodes not revealing who Ben was when [TS]

00:11:40   he was a henry gale or whatever like for [TS]

00:11:42   a parabola to that this is not the same [TS]

00:11:44   as which seems without giving away the [TS]

00:11:46   answer but don't worry because they have [TS]

00:11:47   like 50 more questions to pull out more [TS]

00:11:49   about this okay we answer that board [TS]

00:11:50   about this okay we answer that you can't [TS]

00:11:52   build the show on that you're going down [TS]

00:11:53   a check coughing all the wrong things [TS]

00:11:55   about lost reminded me a little bit of [TS]

00:11:57   heroes actually which was sort of in its [TS]

00:12:00   first season people said see it's like [TS]

00:12:01   lot it's not it's like lost but better [TS]

00:12:03   because they are answering questions [TS]

00:12:04   since like yeah they're there they are [TS]

00:12:06   answering questions that's one thing you [TS]

00:12:08   get when you many questions nobody [TS]

00:12:09   nobody watches and we're gonna get any [TS]

00:12:11   more ice and eventually just becomes [TS]

00:12:13   ridiculous like three episodes and it's [TS]

00:12:15   already kind of ridiculous you have you [TS]

00:12:17   can't name a show the event and then you [TS]

00:12:19   know you're really gonna find out what [TS]

00:12:21   the event is or not and at this rate [TS]

00:12:22   we're going to find out what the event [TS]

00:12:23   is in two episodes and then what are [TS]

00:12:24   they going to do I guess they'll be [TS]

00:12:26   cancelled that so and what you got us [TS]

00:12:28   but talk about the acting you've got [TS]

00:12:29   Jason Ritter running around basically [TS]

00:12:31   saying where's my girlfriend with my [TS]

00:12:32   girlfriend you've got blair Underwood [TS]

00:12:34   saying I'm the president [TS]

00:12:35   i'm the president and then you've got [TS]

00:12:37   laura innes who I think was cast in this [TS]

00:12:39   because she sort of talks like an alien [TS]

00:12:42   so let her be an alien all right [TS]

00:12:45   elko evonik who is my favorite the [TS]

00:12:48   creepy City Security Advisor guy [TS]

00:12:50   yes that's his third party was born to [TS]

00:12:52   play while United States basically [TS]

00:12:54   played that part in in the first season [TS]

00:12:56   of 24 too i think are roughly about that [TS]

00:12:58   some other equally sinister oh yeah I [TS]

00:13:01   was the Magister under blood or it may [TS]

00:13:03   be yeah i think so I it's funny because [TS]

00:13:06   I first saw him in homicide where he was [TS]

00:13:07   a good guys everywhere and anybody is [TS]

00:13:09   almost always a bad guy and but he was [TS]

00:13:11   introduced to me as a good guy on [TS]

00:13:14   homicide [TS]

00:13:15   and so now it's always am always [TS]

00:13:16   disappointed because I was like he might [TS]

00:13:18   be a good guy he might not be evil and [TS]

00:13:19   he's always evil and it's too bad [TS]

00:13:21   because you know on homicide he was a [TS]

00:13:23   good guy [TS]

00:13:23   why do you think it's something [TS]

00:13:24   interesting to be said for the event [TS]

00:13:26   that intern at least for me I've watched [TS]

00:13:28   three episodes i can think of everybody [TS]

00:13:30   by their character their character [TS]

00:13:31   archetypes but i cannot in any way think [TS]

00:13:34   of their names i can't think of Jason [TS]

00:13:35   others named in the like his character [TS]

00:13:37   named justin was writing his [TS]

00:13:38   girlfriend's name is Lila or leila or [TS]

00:13:40   something like that and i can't remember [TS]

00:13:41   I can't remember his name I can't [TS]

00:13:43   remember the cops like I can't remember [TS]

00:13:45   any i can remember the president's name [TS]

00:13:46   although i don't think that president [TS]

00:13:47   Taylor Underwood's that's the point we [TS]

00:13:51   remember the actors and we remember I [TS]

00:13:52   mean if it's a good character drama it [TS]

00:13:54   you should be able to remember [TS]

00:13:56   characters you should not have to resort [TS]

00:13:58   to television without your drama poses [TS]

00:14:00   like a it's like a video game we're all [TS]

00:14:03   it is is set pieces and cutscenes right [TS]

00:14:04   well I mean it's never intentional I [TS]

00:14:06   gameplay there's a difference between [TS]

00:14:08   relying on actors and relying on [TS]

00:14:10   characters right like you know there are [TS]

00:14:12   solid actors in that show but they're [TS]

00:14:14   not playing characters and remanding [TS]

00:14:16   wayside internet to say exposition and [TS]

00:14:18   look out and come here and I have to [TS]

00:14:19   find my girlfriend and then you know the [TS]

00:14:21   people who are given any exit that this [TS]

00:14:22   dramatic scenes between people were [TS]

00:14:24   someone has information that the other [TS]

00:14:25   person doesn't want to have and they do [TS]

00:14:26   nothing with them like think of all the [TS]

00:14:28   scenes with the henry lost where they [TS]

00:14:30   have this big dance with so many [TS]

00:14:32   different characters trying to figure [TS]

00:14:33   out if it's legit or not that's good [TS]

00:14:35   writing that's the way you do that in [TS]

00:14:37   this show is just by the numbers guy [TS]

00:14:40   goes into the room I need to know the [TS]

00:14:41   answers now is I'm the president I can [TS]

00:14:42   tell you've seen over [TS]

00:14:43   well that's not a show i think i think i [TS]

00:14:46   was trying to think about how lost would [TS]

00:14:48   do it but the problem is that i think [TS]

00:14:49   there's also just fear involved in the [TS]

00:14:51   creative choices being made here because [TS]

00:14:53   they're afraid they're going to get [TS]

00:14:54   cancelled so quickly so they try to [TS]

00:14:56   trying to make an impression but the [TS]

00:14:58   problem is if you if you run that pace [TS]

00:15:00   too long like John what you said that [TS]

00:15:03   they will run out of things to talk [TS]

00:15:05   about and and you know I when I think [TS]

00:15:07   about what loss would do with something [TS]

00:15:08   like the event I think okay there's a [TS]

00:15:10   really great story in these people who [TS]

00:15:13   were being kept in that camp in Alaska [TS]

00:15:15   or wherever and and and then discovering [TS]

00:15:19   that they were not actually quite human [TS]

00:15:21   and all of that and yet you know that's [TS]

00:15:24   just tossed off and then they move on [TS]

00:15:25   with you no more people running through [TS]

00:15:27   the desert next [TS]

00:15:28   lotions and car chases and and people [TS]

00:15:30   escaping from the police and and stuff [TS]

00:15:32   that's sort of your bog-standard action [TS]

00:15:34   device which is why I think you know [TS]

00:15:36   what they're really trying to do is is [TS]

00:15:38   is do 24 more than they're trying to do [TS]

00:15:40   lost which was a completely although not [TS]

00:15:42   really a genre show in the sense of [TS]

00:15:44   being you know explicitly fantastic it [TS]

00:15:47   was also something that was completely [TS]

00:15:49   fantasy and could never possibly happen [TS]

00:15:51   and was just wall-to-wall action [TS]

00:15:53   the event is really reminds me of one of [TS]

00:15:55   my favorite sort of apocryphal stories [TS]

00:15:57   about about the Olive Garden of all [TS]

00:15:59   places which is to say is that there's [TS]

00:16:01   this this law is sort of you know urban [TS]

00:16:04   legend type story i don't know if this [TS]

00:16:05   is true enough but i love the idea of [TS]

00:16:07   this story which is that they spent you [TS]

00:16:09   know they spent a million dollars trying [TS]

00:16:12   to make their sauce [TS]

00:16:15   they're like red pasta sauce as bland as [TS]

00:16:18   possible so that there's many people as [TS]

00:16:20   possible with like it which i just i [TS]

00:16:22   mean i think that's that's such a a [TS]

00:16:24   microcosm of all these issues of we're [TS]

00:16:26   going to try to make this program as [TS]

00:16:29   kind of inoffensive as possible in terms [TS]

00:16:31   of not like riling up anybody or not [TS]

00:16:34   doing anything particularly innovative [TS]

00:16:35   so that people will watch it like so [TS]

00:16:38   that it's not necessarily bad but it's [TS]

00:16:41   just kind of bland they don't want to [TS]

00:16:43   challenge the audience that's the thing [TS]

00:16:44   I lost lost would challenge the audience [TS]

00:16:46   are not one good example of that is they [TS]

00:16:48   see that are lost always did flashbacks [TS]

00:16:50   let's do flashbacks my first of all they [TS]

00:16:52   don't they forgot the reason loss was [TS]

00:16:53   doing the flashbacks was for character [TS]

00:16:54   development they never do them for [TS]

00:16:56   character development on the event and [TS]

00:16:57   seconds every time they have a flashback [TS]

00:16:58   a title comes flying at you in 3d [TS]

00:17:01   I'll tell you exactly tell you look at [TS]

00:17:03   how long ago I wasn't it's comical like [TS]

00:17:05   10 minutes ago it seemed minutes ago [TS]

00:17:07   22 minutes ago that is the funny hopping [TS]

00:17:09   about that show it is it makes me laugh [TS]

00:17:11   at you can do a drinking game based on [TS]

00:17:12   that is seriously like 10 minutes before [TS]

00:17:14   three minutes later eight days earlier [TS]

00:17:17   for years earlier wait don't tell us [TS]

00:17:19   what's the city we can figure it out [TS]

00:17:21   from context if you write it while lost [TS]

00:17:23   never did that lost change scenes and [TS]

00:17:24   you had no idea and I wasn't totally [TS]

00:17:26   started to talk that's the point though [TS]

00:17:28   is like in a show like lost they treated [TS]

00:17:30   the audience is smart enough as if we're [TS]

00:17:32   flashing to 1944 you're going to be able [TS]

00:17:34   to tell by the clothing you the costume [TS]

00:17:36   choices and you're going to be able to [TS]

00:17:37   tell because someone's gonna drop it in [TS]

00:17:39   dialogue you don't need to tell somebody [TS]

00:17:40   by three [TS]

00:17:41   when the words at them or are by what [TS]

00:17:43   they seem to know they seem to think [TS]

00:17:45   this person is still alive this seems [TS]

00:17:46   not know about exit must be before why [TS]

00:17:48   like you know just it's the event is so [TS]

00:17:51   dumb down that there's nothing left to [TS]

00:17:54   do except to just watch events unfolded [TS]

00:17:56   i feel like i could get a synopsis of [TS]

00:17:57   the event and I'm the one they should [TS]

00:17:59   have just called it events that would be [TS]

00:18:01   a good name through a series of events [TS]

00:18:04   that are happening [TS]

00:18:05   um ok so let's move on and talk to you [TS]

00:18:07   what you wanna talk about dumb shows [TS]

00:18:09   because i don't want to follow that [TS]

00:18:10   oh ok go ahead I i have a list here but [TS]

00:18:13   you can you can drive your color go [TS]

00:18:14   ahead is no is no ordinary family and in [TS]

00:18:17   fact it's funny that you should mention [TS]

00:18:18   again because i was about to say so no [TS]

00:18:19   no ordinary family is another show that [TS]

00:18:22   sort of a bizarre fusion actively dump [TS]

00:18:25   the incredibles and well really the [TS]

00:18:28   incredibles is is the is the mode it's a [TS]

00:18:30   live-action version of The Incredibles [TS]

00:18:31   which itself was sort of a watch men [TS]

00:18:34   happy Fantastic Four kind of thing again [TS]

00:18:39   it was in fun right it had good [TS]

00:18:41   characters it was funny it had something [TS]

00:18:44   to go for it where is no ordinary family [TS]

00:18:45   like forget subtext barely has text so I [TS]

00:18:50   guess what I'm fast as you know I out so [TS]

00:18:54   I watched the pilot and i kinda liked it [TS]

00:18:56   i mean let me let me say that back it up [TS]

00:19:00   and their credit they don't come on i [TS]

00:19:02   can take it but bring it on it has some [TS]

00:19:04   of the worst dialogue [TS]

00:19:06   yes some of the most like terrible [TS]

00:19:08   character development again no subtext [TS]

00:19:12   no response [TS]

00:19:13   I admit there are couple things in the [TS]

00:19:15   show where I thought usually sort of the [TS]

00:19:17   twist part oh yeah oh ok that's kind of [TS]

00:19:20   interesting there were some references [TS]

00:19:22   in there that I thought were good there [TS]

00:19:23   was some like comic book and and [TS]

00:19:24   pop-culture references that were not [TS]

00:19:26   yelling graph that were just like oh i [TS]

00:19:27   see what they did there which is not [TS]

00:19:30   migrate all that what happened yes there [TS]

00:19:31   was all there were playing with [TS]

00:19:33   micronauts and in fact the only show i [TS]

00:19:34   can that's made reference to the [TS]

00:19:36   Micronauts actually as freaks and geeks [TS]

00:19:37   and for that I will always love it but [TS]

00:19:39   there's like a watchman reference at one [TS]

00:19:41   point that you could you but you have to [TS]

00:19:42   know the ride kicks are so much more [TS]

00:19:43   interested in the actual and Levy and [TS]

00:19:46   the dial your right is dialogue is on [TS]

00:19:47   the nose like that the whole point [TS]

00:19:48   obviously was we're going to write this [TS]

00:19:50   and the family is going to have some [TS]

00:19:52   just like the incredibles actually [TS]

00:19:53   there's going to be some problems [TS]

00:19:54   between [TS]

00:19:55   wife and husband and accept that it's [TS]

00:19:57   sort of like I am happy i am not [TS]

00:19:59   entirely satisfied in my marriage wife [TS]

00:20:01   well husband you have issues with me [TS]

00:20:03   being so such a successful business [TS]

00:20:06   person you know where it's just like [TS]

00:20:08   guys come on i mean it's very obvious [TS]

00:20:10   what the situation is in that household [TS]

00:20:12   and yet you end up with all this dialog [TS]

00:20:14   where Julie Benz has to explain that [TS]

00:20:17   she's a very successful businesswoman [TS]

00:20:19   you know I got that eight scenes ago [TS]

00:20:20   when you were putting on your suit and [TS]

00:20:23   and going to the make a corporation and [TS]

00:20:25   having the meeting with the bosses have [TS]

00:20:27   you had better get into the second [TS]

00:20:28   episode there they literally have like [TS]

00:20:30   they introduce you know a couple server [TS]

00:20:32   side characters like neighbors who [TS]

00:20:34   literally have lines like oh I leave my [TS]

00:20:36   phone on so my children can reach me if [TS]

00:20:38   they need me or wow must be like they [TS]

00:20:40   have a another husband's basically yeah [TS]

00:20:42   well someone's gotta earn the money for [TS]

00:20:44   your family or whatever like they [TS]

00:20:45   literally like just sailing out they [TS]

00:20:48   live this is set in an alternate [TS]

00:20:49   universe where there is no subtext [TS]

00:20:51   pretty much it's just people just say [TS]

00:20:53   things that they're thinking you know I [TS]

00:20:57   i agree with all that and yet I felt [TS]

00:20:59   much more inclined to watch another [TS]

00:21:01   episode III when i finished the pilot of [TS]

00:21:03   no ordinary family i recorded the second [TS]

00:21:05   episode as opposed to the event where I [TS]

00:21:07   finished the second episode of the event [TS]

00:21:08   and said yeah I don't think I'm gonna [TS]

00:21:10   come back here maybe on netflix or [TS]

00:21:12   something [TS]

00:21:12   so whatever it was about it i mean that [TS]

00:21:14   the twist in the enough pilot the twist [TS]

00:21:17   is that this guy you think that you're [TS]

00:21:19   watching I are our newly RR commish our [TS]

00:21:24   shield micra checklists we talk about [TS]

00:21:28   that but we talked about having a [TS]

00:21:29   barbarous Michael check but we've got a [TS]

00:21:31   shovel the objects gerald [TS]

00:21:33   yes I'm suddenly going to show that just [TS]

00:21:35   a bit lighter and only not that not only [TS]

00:21:38   that I mean like I have trouble with the [TS]

00:21:39   associations with both of those actors [TS]

00:21:41   just because Michael chick was yeah i [TS]

00:21:43   watched all the shield the shield's a [TS]

00:21:44   great show [TS]

00:21:45   it is really hard to see him in a role [TS]

00:21:47   that is 180 degrees from that role and [TS]

00:21:51   of course julie benz also playing she [TS]

00:21:53   was also on Buffy to ashes Darla ate a [TS]

00:21:56   vampire and so and whistling twice and [TS]

00:21:58   of course i like both of those actors i [TS]

00:22:01   think there again their characters [TS]

00:22:02   really have little to do and have kind [TS]

00:22:04   of no chemistry though I you know I [TS]

00:22:06   hesitate to blame the after [TS]

00:22:08   actors as I think they have so little [TS]

00:22:09   work within that script but um I don't [TS]

00:22:12   know it just [TS]

00:22:14   but i like to try again i do i did like [TS]

00:22:16   the sort of the twist at the end so that [TS]

00:22:17   sort of the guy that he's fighting you [TS]

00:22:19   have a guy that he's finding that you [TS]

00:22:20   think it's just some sort of bog [TS]

00:22:21   standard Robert turns out that he can [TS]

00:22:22   like teleport in a puff of black smoke [TS]

00:22:24   so he sort of the night crawler analog [TS]

00:22:26   in this except he doesn't look like a [TS]

00:22:28   devil and and Stephen colonize Stephen [TS]

00:22:32   lawman's s.korea in fact I shouted at [TS]

00:22:35   the TV when that happened I said no [TS]

00:22:36   Stephen Collins no no you're no longer [TS]

00:22:40   one of every chapter is a bad guy [TS]

00:22:42   oh come on Stephen Collins yes but it's [TS]

00:22:46   kind of fantastic [TS]

00:22:48   I know if the thing about an ordinary [TS]

00:22:49   family is like it's it's so cheesy it's [TS]

00:22:52   unbelievably cheated and like it grates [TS]

00:22:54   against my skin in my eyeballs and like [TS]

00:22:55   everything but it's sometimes a big [TS]

00:22:57   cheese grater oh it is it don't but at [TS]

00:22:59   the same time like well I could put this [TS]

00:23:01   on while i was doing laundry it's a good [TS]

00:23:02   like it'sit's the first cut the first [TS]

00:23:04   couple of at Castle episodes were for me [TS]

00:23:06   which is like this is cute but it's [TS]

00:23:08   nothing special and I mean castrated [TS]

00:23:10   become something more interesting and [TS]

00:23:12   I'm kind of hoping but I mean the way [TS]

00:23:14   the writing is right now which makes me [TS]

00:23:15   so sad because it's it's great plenty [TS]

00:23:17   right who's Kosho running this yes did [TS]

00:23:19   ever would in general Bobby and well and [TS]

00:23:22   the hope and and I haven't seen the [TS]

00:23:23   second episode which will probably crash [TS]

00:23:25   my crush my hopes but that my hope was [TS]

00:23:27   iffy if you get the balance right you've [TS]

00:23:29   got something that isn't necessarily [TS]

00:23:31   like Buffy level but you've got the [TS]

00:23:32   ability to explore kind of you got ya [TS]

00:23:35   like friday night lights you've got a [TS]

00:23:37   plot with with a marriage that's [TS]

00:23:39   interesting and they've got adult issues [TS]

00:23:41   and you've got the kids and you've got [TS]

00:23:43   their high school issues and they're [TS]

00:23:44   growing up issues and any and you throw [TS]

00:23:46   this layer of of of fantasy on top of it [TS]

00:23:50   that sort of heightens everything and it [TS]

00:23:52   could be good [TS]

00:23:53   that butters there's potential there's [TS]

00:23:55   moments of brilliance and especially I [TS]

00:23:56   know you said you haven't seen the [TS]

00:23:57   second episode yet but there's a there's [TS]

00:23:59   a similar sort of like all twist but [TS]

00:24:02   there's something that happens at the [TS]

00:24:03   end of the second episode that surprised [TS]

00:24:04   me because it was really dark [TS]

00:24:06   well there's darkness in this and I mean [TS]

00:24:08   I when the plane crashes in the in the [TS]

00:24:10   pilot and a and a pilot Lee well pilot [TS]

00:24:13   is dead because that's a good sign of [TS]

00:24:14   any company so [TS]

00:24:16   anytime toilet that uh is in a pilot [TS]

00:24:19   will die [TS]

00:24:19   that's the rule it's it's the title [TS]

00:24:21   character from the pilot and co-pilot [TS]

00:24:22   always dies but they have the blob I i [TS]

00:24:26   will say I'm getting tired of the [TS]

00:24:28   conspiracy thing I thought that was cool [TS]

00:24:29   that they go to Brazil and there's like [TS]

00:24:31   stuff in the Amazon that gives them [TS]

00:24:32   powers but it was so obvious by the end [TS]

00:24:35   of the first episode that so well the [TS]

00:24:37   company has a thing in the Amazon and [TS]

00:24:40   they they they know about the powers and [TS]

00:24:43   it's obviously a conspiracy and [TS]

00:24:45   something's going on my that really a [TS]

00:24:47   conspiracy whatever happened to cause [TS]

00:24:49   we're a on this wiki right well yeah I [TS]

00:24:51   mean I'd rather it be a fantastic thing [TS]

00:24:52   that maybe you maybe plays out over a [TS]

00:24:54   long period of time I was thinking well [TS]

00:24:56   this is cool over over an entire year [TS]

00:24:58   they could end up having to go back to [TS]

00:24:59   the Amazon and try to figure out what it [TS]

00:25:00   is and what's causing it like note they [TS]

00:25:02   again they they went right to it in in [TS]

00:25:05   the pilot which was I was a little [TS]

00:25:07   disappointed by that so do we really [TS]

00:25:08   need to start eating our own premise [TS]

00:25:10   while we're setting the premise I don't [TS]

00:25:12   know but I i recorded the second episode [TS]

00:25:16   so it obviously did something maybe I [TS]

00:25:18   need to just fold my laundry [TS]

00:25:19   well I mean the thing about this i watch [TS]

00:25:21   the second episode and the second [TS]

00:25:22   episode again the writing just as [TS]

00:25:24   terrible the cheesiness probably there [TS]

00:25:26   there's if there's one point where the [TS]

00:25:28   husband and wife are in bed and like [TS]

00:25:29   tell me your three favorite word's or [TS]

00:25:32   something like that or my three favorite [TS]

00:25:33   word's and the husband's like you were [TS]

00:25:35   right and then they do the I love you [TS]

00:25:37   and it's just like it's so painful but [TS]

00:25:39   I'm i mean the cheesiness aside there [TS]

00:25:41   are moments of brilliance you know Peter [TS]

00:25:43   by minutes of tedium and I mean it all [TS]

00:25:46   works out and i feel like i can still [TS]

00:25:49   watch it especially with like the last [TS]

00:25:50   10 minutes of the second episode which [TS]

00:25:52   is dan brought up it's like ok they're [TS]

00:25:54   compelling things you're not afraid to [TS]

00:25:56   put characters in danger like that and [TS]

00:25:59   I'm like alright as long as you can stop [TS]

00:26:02   stating everything of like no subtext [TS]

00:26:06   would say it has the glee problem maybe [TS]

00:26:08   i can maybe I can forgive the lack of [TS]

00:26:11   good dialogue and I because it's an [TS]

00:26:14   attempt to kind of explore characters in [TS]

00:26:17   a way that I couldn't forgive the event [TS]

00:26:20   for taking its characters and basically [TS]

00:26:22   making them little plate little pieces [TS]

00:26:23   on a game board that they slide around [TS]

00:26:25   maybe I'm maybe that says something [TS]

00:26:27   about me that I was actually more [TS]

00:26:28   willing [TS]

00:26:28   to forgive the show with a bad dialogue [TS]

00:26:30   even know what I recognize that it's bad [TS]

00:26:32   dialogue and I don't like bad dialogue [TS]

00:26:33   because i like what they were trying to [TS]

00:26:35   do and could see some potential and that [TS]

00:26:37   where the event was just sort of noisy [TS]

00:26:38   and and full of little kind of puppet [TS]

00:26:42   characters at least they're trying to [TS]

00:26:44   make some kind of character as opposed [TS]

00:26:46   and I would and I i like the scenes [TS]

00:26:48   where that you know especially in the [TS]

00:26:50   second episode there's some really good [TS]

00:26:51   scenes were where Michael Chiklis his [TS]

00:26:52   character whose name I can't remember [TS]

00:26:54   Jim something I mr. incredible [TS]

00:26:56   no yeah choice to pick so it's sort of [TS]

00:26:59   how his powers work there's an [TS]

00:27:01   interesting like that in the pilot [TS]

00:27:02   listicle talking about the the [TS]

00:27:04   references I mean I I felt like there [TS]

00:27:06   was a watchman reference in the pilot I [TS]

00:27:08   thought that there was a tick reference [TS]

00:27:09   in the pilot I thought that there was an [TS]

00:27:11   invincible invincible [TS]

00:27:12   yeah no not invincible unbreakable [TS]

00:27:15   reference in the pilot too so I did feel [TS]

00:27:18   and maybe and because i love i love and [TS]

00:27:20   braker leading into that if I just it [TS]

00:27:22   may be well because they're all they're [TS]

00:27:23   all superhero stories right so maybe i'm [TS]

00:27:25   just reading into it but but my larger [TS]

00:27:27   point here is that as somebody who loved [TS]

00:27:29   the movie unbreakable and loved the [TS]

00:27:31   incredibles I do have a soft spot in my [TS]

00:27:34   heart for us a show that seems to [TS]

00:27:36   essentially be viewing those kind of [TS]

00:27:38   stories as the model here i mean in some [TS]

00:27:40   ways this is and heroes had a couple [TS]

00:27:42   moments of that in its first season [TS]

00:27:44   right before when I'm an idea there was [TS]

00:27:46   there's a great scene where where Peter [TS]

00:27:48   milo ventimiglia character tries to [TS]

00:27:50   figure out if he can he can fly by like [TS]

00:27:52   trying to jump off like a right monkey [TS]

00:27:55   that's in the playground oh yeah right [TS]

00:27:56   which is to any just Falls or gonna say [TS]

00:27:58   anything like that I just I i love those [TS]

00:28:00   maybe it was gonna sucker for practicals [TS]

00:28:02   but I just I think it's the end this is [TS]

00:28:04   a couple of really great ones in the [TS]

00:28:05   second episode [TS]

00:28:06   yeah so you know I don't know what that [TS]

00:28:09   says John I mean I think you might want [TS]

00:28:11   to give it a try just because you are so [TS]

00:28:12   hungry for this stuff I i setup to [TS]

00:28:15   record just because i saw the ads and [TS]

00:28:16   incredible my favorite Pixar movie [TS]

00:28:19   unbreakable is my favorite and night [TS]

00:28:20   movie I'm with you there on both of us [TS]

00:28:23   I'm all set to to like this but I have a [TS]

00:28:26   500 tolerance for schlock and shows that [TS]

00:28:28   there are very few shows that he could [TS]

00:28:30   make that transition from like hockey [TS]

00:28:32   stealing this to drama like Buffy would [TS]

00:28:34   be one example where kind of start silly [TS]

00:28:35   but then they start cranking right it [TS]

00:28:37   drama later on that's why I still have [TS]

00:28:39   some hope for no ordinary family as if [TS]

00:28:41   they can make that [TS]

00:28:41   turn ya transmission and really hard to [TS]

00:28:44   make like a hero's was always dour from [TS]

00:28:46   the beginning that was the problem [TS]

00:28:47   heroes like that one good season up to [TS]

00:28:49   the end but they were just always take [TS]

00:28:50   themselves so seriously superhero right [TS]

00:28:52   great hero was the only good in the [TS]

00:28:54   first season like heroes story was was [TS]

00:28:56   hilarious and light and funny and [TS]

00:28:58   self-aware and the rest of it was the [TS]

00:29:00   same term irrationally get them [TS]

00:29:02   yeah but so hows I think your family [TS]

00:29:05   badly needs new writers maybe they'll [TS]

00:29:08   get some new blood as it progresses if [TS]

00:29:09   they survive long right and if they [TS]

00:29:11   figure out what this let's first the [TS]

00:29:12   event are no ordinary family [TS]

00:29:15   I think no ordinary family gets [TS]

00:29:16   cancelled first on that i would agree [TS]

00:29:18   it's more likely mostly because of that [TS]

00:29:21   no ordinary family is on ABC and ABC is [TS]

00:29:24   doing better and NBC is so desperate [TS]

00:29:25   that they any event ratings aren't so [TS]

00:29:29   bad that I think NBC has shown that [TS]

00:29:32   they'll let something right for a whole [TS]

00:29:33   year whereas if no ordinary family I [TS]

00:29:35   think it's too early to tell but if the [TS]

00:29:36   ratings keep dropping they'll replace it [TS]

00:29:37   with something else I mean their ratings [TS]

00:29:39   haven't been bad especially going up [TS]

00:29:40   against Glee which is a big thing right [TS]

00:29:42   well we'll see so we'll see we'll see [TS]

00:29:44   but I i think just playing the odds i'd [TS]

00:29:46   say that the show on NBC has a greater [TS]

00:29:48   likelihood of staying around just [TS]

00:29:50   because they're hoping that it'll it'll [TS]

00:29:52   catch fire and they've got nothing to [TS]

00:29:53   replace it with NBC is a bit content [TS]

00:29:56   laughs at the moment yes the the sad [TS]

00:30:00   little peacock and they're going through [TS]

00:30:02   there also we also going through an [TS]

00:30:04   executive transition right now so so so [TS]

00:30:08   yes there's a merger and Jeff sucker is [TS]

00:30:10   leaving and they've got the new guy in [TS]

00:30:11   charge of programming and so that that [TS]

00:30:13   may make it unsettled as well so so [TS]

00:30:17   let's move on [TS]

00:30:18   I actually wanted to talk about fringe a [TS]

00:30:20   little bit which came up earlier fringe [TS]

00:30:23   which is not new but is back for its [TS]

00:30:25   third season on Fox and I'm just going [TS]

00:30:27   to go out and say it i think fringe is [TS]

00:30:29   the best sci-fi show on TV right now I [TS]

00:30:33   think I think every season has improved [TS]

00:30:36   I'm shocked at how much better it has [TS]

00:30:37   gotten in fact all the end is starting [TS]

00:30:39   at the end of the first season where [TS]

00:30:41   they released you know start doing [TS]

00:30:42   mythology stuff [TS]

00:30:43   yeah and then they you know they had a [TS]

00:30:46   couple one-offs in the second season but [TS]

00:30:48   also some really great episodes in the [TS]

00:30:50   second season including the the retro [TS]

00:30:52   episode [TS]

00:30:53   yeah it's just that was fans [TS]

00:30:55   ask they didn't I mean not only just [TS]

00:30:56   whatever special effects they used to [TS]

00:30:58   make john noble look 20 years younger [TS]

00:30:59   but they just did a great job and it's a [TS]

00:31:03   show that's managed I think finally [TS]

00:31:04   managed to find its footing and there's [TS]

00:31:06   a show that that cloaked it's super [TS]

00:31:08   science fictional premise inside a more [TS]

00:31:11   comfortable premise that the comfortable [TS]

00:31:13   promise was like the x-files right it [TS]

00:31:14   was like weird things are happening and [TS]

00:31:15   they investigate them but in the end it [TS]

00:31:17   turned out know this is a show about [TS]

00:31:18   parallel universes clashing with each [TS]

00:31:21   other and they took a year to get there [TS]

00:31:24   that's what I would like the show to be [TS]

00:31:26   about the end of the first season I [TS]

00:31:27   almost stopped watching and they said no [TS]

00:31:29   yet that show that they had at the end [TS]

00:31:31   of the first season that's the show I [TS]

00:31:32   want to watch yes I want but the season [TS]

00:31:34   two is that going to be the show or that [TS]

00:31:35   we're going to go back to Monster of the [TS]

00:31:36   Week and like they're always on the line [TS]

00:31:39   between iron I have to be honest I'm not [TS]

00:31:41   going to make me stop watching but have [TS]

00:31:42   you seen yes i have seen this seasoning [TS]

00:31:44   for the show [TS]

00:31:45   yeah i was seems pretty much a clear [TS]

00:31:48   I mean it's a parallel around to show [TS]

00:31:50   everyone but you don't know if they're [TS]

00:31:52   gonna resolve that three-episode to be [TS]

00:31:53   back to Monster of the Week but I mean [TS]

00:31:55   all agree with this analogy tho friends [TS]

00:31:57   txt files as the event is too lost [TS]

00:32:00   I mean I was never an X file span so i [TS]

00:32:04   can't speak to that you want i want the [TS]

00:32:06   podcast I trust it is you just might [TS]

00:32:08   guess it's over it [TS]

00:32:09   I i I'll of the x-files although I I [TS]

00:32:12   grew to hate it actually toward the end [TS]

00:32:15   because I felt like they really [TS]

00:32:16   squandered I I thought they were much [TS]

00:32:17   better at the standalone episodes then [TS]

00:32:19   the mythology and that the mythology [TS]

00:32:20   murdered that show which is too bad [TS]

00:32:22   because I like it already did eventually [TS]

00:32:23   kill it but they had I think they had [TS]

00:32:25   six good seasons of exiles mythology and [TS]

00:32:27   or was that went off the rails i'd say [TS]

00:32:29   about five-and-a-half more but but yeah [TS]

00:32:31   but they're similar upside French [TS]

00:32:34   trenches the x-files with the serial [TS]

00:32:35   numbers filed off although i think that [TS]

00:32:37   was a faint right i think that was they [TS]

00:32:38   were trying to make you think it was [TS]

00:32:39   just the x-files it was something a [TS]

00:32:41   little different but yes it is the [TS]

00:32:42   spiritual successor to the x-files but [TS]

00:32:46   no I think determine it has a week your [TS]

00:32:48   characters in The X Files exhales had to [TS]

00:32:49   character who know where they stood [TS]

00:32:51   changed over time writing those little [TS]

00:32:54   people never helps with a cardboard [TS]

00:32:55   cutout infringed it seems like everybody [TS]

00:32:57   is kind of semi carpet like for example [TS]

00:32:59   i do not buy the romance plot lines [TS]

00:33:01   anywhere like completely but I i think [TS]

00:33:03   that's a disaster i think they should [TS]

00:33:04   never have made that mistake and I think [TS]

00:33:06   they're one of the reasons they did it [TS]

00:33:07   because they felt like they were [TS]

00:33:08   switch the Olivia's they knew they were [TS]

00:33:10   going to switch the Olivia's from the [TS]

00:33:12   different universes and they wanted not [TS]

00:33:14   work and they wanted to have that sort [TS]

00:33:15   of like who he doesn't know who he's [TS]

00:33:18   sleeping with kind of thing but it [TS]

00:33:19   because they were much better as a [TS]

00:33:20   brother and sister kind of yeah it's [TS]

00:33:22   like watching brother and sister kiss [TS]

00:33:24   when they're like my know it's crazy vs [TS]

00:33:26   The X Files where you totally bought the [TS]

00:33:28   tension between the two of them right [TS]

00:33:29   and obviously stretched out too long and [TS]

00:33:31   did the lying thing with in everything [TS]

00:33:32   but still you bought my attention from [TS]

00:33:34   episode number one right but i'm not i'm [TS]

00:33:36   gonna i'm gonna say that that I think I [TS]

00:33:38   like the French cast of characters [TS]

00:33:40   better not necessarily first off i think [TS]

00:33:42   that what we've seen with olivia is that [TS]

00:33:45   she was put in the position of having to [TS]

00:33:47   play the serious FBI agent for a while [TS]

00:33:49   and her character was pretty boring and [TS]

00:33:51   I feel like this season especially we've [TS]

00:33:53   seen that the actress is quite capable [TS]

00:33:55   of all because having her play two [TS]

00:33:57   characters really does showed that she [TS]

00:33:59   Ali you know she's got some talent and [TS]

00:34:01   that it's just more a function s in some [TS]

00:34:03   ways of that carrot write the character [TS]

00:34:05   had a role to the angle to be the [TS]

00:34:06   functionalist reading Olivia that [TS]

00:34:08   monotone kind of way though and I think [TS]

00:34:09   that was kind of like I don't know if [TS]

00:34:11   they directed her to do that or that was [TS]

00:34:12   her choice for the character but it's [TS]

00:34:13   like jeez convinced this this person is [TS]

00:34:15   pretty because she act well but she was [TS]

00:34:17   feeling that our Olivia she does fine [TS]

00:34:18   but then the old olivia is still boring [TS]

00:34:20   i don't know others i think she's less [TS]

00:34:22   boring than she was but i but i think [TS]

00:34:24   the writers realized that she was [TS]

00:34:25   fulfilling that Fox Mulder kind of role [TS]

00:34:27   and she was supposed to be serious and [TS]

00:34:29   skeptical and I think that's one of the [TS]

00:34:30   reasons they added her sister and her [TS]

00:34:32   sister's daughter was to try and give [TS]

00:34:34   her more thing with your side give her [TS]

00:34:36   more things to do [TS]

00:34:37   she gets emotional distress and I don't [TS]

00:34:39   think like Scully had emotional distress [TS]

00:34:40   from her cancer and from like you know [TS]

00:34:42   just worrying about if things are real [TS]

00:34:44   or not an ipad or maybe chilling images [TS]

00:34:46   a better actress but I just need more I [TS]

00:34:48   been doing the same thing I think she is [TS]

00:34:50   but I i think that that Olivia it you [TS]

00:34:52   know is works a lot better but but my [TS]

00:34:55   broader point was that now I'm i am [TS]

00:34:58   going to call Joshua Jackson but really [TS]

00:34:59   at home he's Pacey I think I think Pacey [TS]

00:35:03   peter is I think that's a fun character [TS]

00:35:06   I think he's really good and I think I i [TS]

00:35:08   like that and john noble I think as [TS]

00:35:10   walter johnson dr into without without [TS]

00:35:13   Walter that show does not work i [TS]

00:35:14   don't--there's practically a separate [TS]

00:35:16   show like he is [TS]

00:35:17   I i would put him at any jo-ann its [TS]

00:35:20   second that he's just about Walter like [TS]

00:35:22   bleep my Walter says I don't know Lance [TS]

00:35:24   Reddick is doing his thing and and and [TS]

00:35:27   you've got now i can't remember name and [TS]

00:35:29   Royals Broyles is kind of wasted there [TS]

00:35:32   especially after seeing him in the wire [TS]

00:35:33   well doesn't it yeah he's doing the same [TS]

00:35:34   thing right they don't give him anything [TS]

00:35:36   to do [TS]

00:35:36   no no he's he's he's he's I i like [TS]

00:35:39   watching him when he's in it but he [TS]

00:35:41   sorted doesn't have anything to do its [TS]

00:35:42   trees the skin wire [TS]

00:35:44   I mean he was so good in the wire right [TS]

00:35:45   and we all know that I can although i [TS]

00:35:47   don't know I i would compare him [TS]

00:35:48   favorably with Skinner on The X Files [TS]

00:35:51   well they're feeling the same role [TS]

00:35:52   really come into the scene say something [TS]

00:35:53   gruff and leave but right now it's [TS]

00:35:54   finally found something to do with [TS]

00:35:56   Skinner eventually they're always gonna [TS]

00:35:57   be conflicted character and broil so far [TS]

00:36:00   will the evil Broyles is not conflicted [TS]

00:36:02   yeah they're all lieutenant Castillo [TS]

00:36:04   from Miami Vice under the skin little [TS]

00:36:06   James energy zone out there for you keep [TS]

00:36:08   me informed others and Crockett keep me [TS]

00:36:10   full it's nice that it's nice to have [TS]

00:36:11   honey I think they've had a pretty good [TS]

00:36:14   luck in guest stars and and and other [TS]

00:36:16   you know sort of guest actors I mean [TS]

00:36:18   leonard nimoy especially I thought I [TS]

00:36:20   just really enjoyed learning one is my [TS]

00:36:22   state were seen with him and maybe but [TS]

00:36:24   the suit was john noble the second [TS]

00:36:26   season him and john hope will have [TS]

00:36:28   awesome chemist yet like the scenes [TS]

00:36:29   weather in the parallel universe and [TS]

00:36:31   they're kind of like talking and [TS]

00:36:32   bickering I thought work to atty like [TS]

00:36:34   quickly established the dynamic between [TS]

00:36:36   these two characters who of course you [TS]

00:36:38   know i always thought was funny that you [TS]

00:36:40   know it lately have the same initials in [TS]

00:36:42   are clearly sort of the two sides of the [TS]

00:36:44   same coin character [TS]

00:36:47   yeah yeah I i agree i I've been very [TS]

00:36:50   happy with it though I was saying this [TS]

00:36:51   to my wife after the we watch the second [TS]

00:36:53   episode i think of the of the the season [TS]

00:36:55   of fringe i said this show has gotten so [TS]

00:36:58   much better and and you don't usually [TS]

00:37:00   see a show I think go from being kinda [TS]

00:37:03   you know watchable I can watch the whole [TS]

00:37:05   first season I never really I was like [TS]

00:37:07   yeah okay I it's kinda interesting just [TS]

00:37:09   barely enough to keep it going and and [TS]

00:37:12   then the second season I thought was [TS]

00:37:13   better and this third season i have the [TS]

00:37:16   last two episodes are the first two [TS]

00:37:17   episodes of the season just I'm so [TS]

00:37:19   impressed i love the fact that they can [TS]

00:37:21   tell stories on both sides of the [TS]

00:37:23   universe with the same actors more or [TS]

00:37:25   less so you've got a couple playing [TS]

00:37:27   different aspects of themselves with [TS]

00:37:28   storylines that sort of intersect but [TS]

00:37:30   don't know [TS]

00:37:31   necessarily have to and I think that's [TS]

00:37:32   great i hope that they keep that going [TS]

00:37:34   for I watched an interview with some of [TS]

00:37:37   the cast and and creative people [TS]

00:37:39   sometime over the summer or something [TS]

00:37:41   and they said you know basically their [TS]

00:37:42   goal is to if they said something like [TS]

00:37:45   if we can get you to care as much about [TS]

00:37:47   the people in the alternate universe as [TS]

00:37:49   you do about you know the people in the [TS]

00:37:51   universe that we start with that is kind [TS]

00:37:53   of what we're shooting like you know we [TS]

00:37:54   want to get to the point where it's not [TS]

00:37:56   just all these are the bad guys you know [TS]

00:37:57   from the other universe we want to get [TS]

00:37:59   to the point where it's like well we can [TS]

00:38:00   kind of see the perspective solutely [TS]

00:38:02   well I mean from their perspective right [TS]

00:38:04   there universe had like a hole blown [TS]

00:38:06   into it and and our characters that [TS]

00:38:08   we've been told are our friends that we [TS]

00:38:10   like to follow every week are at fault [TS]

00:38:12   and so that you know they view this is [TS]

00:38:14   being there you know they're striking [TS]

00:38:16   back against against the suppressor now [TS]

00:38:19   their their their their actions are [TS]

00:38:22   sometimes questionable but I think [TS]

00:38:24   that's an interesting point about at [TS]

00:38:26   what point do you you know what's [TS]

00:38:29   justified as a reaction to something [TS]

00:38:31   that has blown up buildings and killed [TS]

00:38:33   lots of people i mean it are they [TS]

00:38:34   justified is is the alternate Olivia who [TS]

00:38:37   you can call fo Olivia or Bolivia or [TS]

00:38:40   whatever else you want to call her you [TS]

00:38:42   know she she takes that guy and she [TS]

00:38:44   kills him because he she's got erase all [TS]

00:38:46   the all the you know information about [TS]

00:38:49   who's getting that box in the second [TS]

00:38:50   episode right well that's you know [TS]

00:38:52   cold-blooded murder to shut somebody up [TS]

00:38:54   and of course [TS]

00:38:55   presumably the alternate is just done [TS]

00:38:57   some horrible things on his side and [TS]

00:39:00   send all these people over to our side [TS]

00:39:01   and yet the justification is that not [TS]

00:39:04   only does he have this personal vendetta [TS]

00:39:06   which is that his son was stolen but [TS]

00:39:08   that they stuff is like blown up and [TS]

00:39:10   people have been killed so I think it's [TS]

00:39:12   fascinating to think that maybe our guys [TS]

00:39:13   are universe more or less is the is the [TS]

00:39:16   villain in this from their space also [TS]

00:39:18   making a doomsday machine and it's kinda [TS]

00:39:20   hard to paper over that one [TS]

00:39:21   oh yeah no he's the best guy you're [TS]

00:39:24   right hardware told it's a doomsday [TS]

00:39:26   machine [TS]

00:39:26   well whatever it is he's clearly they're [TS]

00:39:28   clearly painting him as evil is gonna be [TS]

00:39:30   tough to redeem a million i don't think [TS]

00:39:32   it'll be ready next year and even ground [TS]

00:39:34   with those to Olivia's because they act [TS]

00:39:35   in ways that are understandable and the [TS]

00:39:37   rest of the French team I think too but [TS]

00:39:39   not what not the alternate know he's bad [TS]

00:39:40   in fact it wouldn't surprise me and we [TS]

00:39:42   find out that all these terrible things [TS]

00:39:43   that happened in [TS]

00:39:44   the alternate universe are the result of [TS]

00:39:46   alternate trying to get his son back and [TS]

00:39:48   not because of the original breach but [TS]

00:39:50   we'll see [TS]

00:39:51   it's interesting I mean I i kinda hope [TS]

00:39:53   that you know it reminds me it is sort [TS]

00:39:56   of the beginning of this third season [TS]

00:39:58   reminds me of one of my favorite parts [TS]

00:40:00   from sci-fi television in recent years [TS]

00:40:02   on a show that otherwise kind of went [TS]

00:40:06   off the rails which is the third season [TS]

00:40:07   occupation Arctic battlestar galactica [TS]

00:40:10   right is a fantastic art but I see it [TS]

00:40:13   John's point about the will they stick [TS]

00:40:16   with this plotline or will they go back [TS]

00:40:17   to sort of the formulaic [TS]

00:40:18   monster-of-the-week I mean battlestar [TS]

00:40:20   galactica 20 out on a limb and tried to [TS]

00:40:23   totally sort of reinvent itself and had [TS]

00:40:25   did a fantastic bit of work in creating [TS]

00:40:28   of you know a great sort of parable [TS]

00:40:30   basically for are you know but the war [TS]

00:40:32   in iraq essentially at that point and [TS]

00:40:34   then basically solved the entire problem [TS]

00:40:36   in like six episodes like right back to [TS]

00:40:38   the spaceship [TS]

00:40:39   let's do this and that for me is where [TS]

00:40:41   that show right totally lost the [TS]

00:40:43   difference here is that what they've set [TS]

00:40:44   up with the parallel universes is their [TS]

00:40:46   premise twice instead of what battlestar [TS]

00:40:49   galactica was which was a totally [TS]

00:40:50   different show and I did love it and I [TS]

00:40:52   thought it was really interesting that [TS]

00:40:53   they did it but this is a little bit [TS]

00:40:55   more comfortable i think of a resting [TS]

00:40:57   place to have sort of yeah I think you [TS]

00:40:59   can experience a solid argument to that [TS]

00:41:01   idea that it's a Trojan horse right like [TS]

00:41:03   this is you know that they started out [TS]

00:41:05   with the monster of the week stuff to [TS]

00:41:06   build it into a mythology show and I'm [TS]

00:41:08   glad they're actually doing that it you [TS]

00:41:09   know I i think this is why I stick with [TS]

00:41:12   so many shows as long as I do because I [TS]

00:41:14   keep thinking well okay there's some you [TS]

00:41:16   know there are kids that there's more [TS]

00:41:17   going on here that there's interesting [TS]

00:41:19   stories to be told here but we just have [TS]

00:41:21   to wait to till the show's establish [TS]

00:41:23   enough because it's hard to like delve [TS]

00:41:25   right into a mythology show right you [TS]

00:41:26   know unless you're the adventurous music [TS]

00:41:28   go for it but planes will respect that I [TS]

00:41:31   gotta respect fringe for that first [TS]

00:41:33   season because i was on the edge of not [TS]

00:41:35   what are just being totally disgusted [TS]

00:41:37   with it until that final thing and it's [TS]

00:41:38   like you know the plan that right so [TS]

00:41:40   it's not like they just thought of it at [TS]

00:41:41   the end of the thing like they spend it [TS]

00:41:43   on oir sees an entire season of a show [TS]

00:41:45   building up to essentially their promise [TS]

00:41:47   they didn't give you the premise until [TS]

00:41:49   the end of the first season and and they [TS]

00:41:50   hit you with the big hammer of like not [TS]

00:41:52   only do we have a really awesome premise [TS]

00:41:54   but here we have this horrible horrible [TS]

00:41:55   event of like stealing your soul [TS]

00:41:57   and for another place in the main [TS]

00:41:58   character been with isn't even from this [TS]

00:41:59   universe and stuff like that and he [TS]

00:42:01   feels terrible bad it's not played for [TS]

00:42:03   laughs it's serious like that was a big [TS]

00:42:05   payoff after it like a long lead up it's [TS]

00:42:07   like and I think they did they did drop [TS]

00:42:09   just enough like every time they didn't [TS]

00:42:11   tell you a little story observers and [TS]

00:42:13   stuff in it like I was for me that's why [TS]

00:42:15   i kept watch yes but it there's [TS]

00:42:16   something interesting still could have [TS]

00:42:18   been lame is still coming like yes a lot [TS]

00:42:19   pattern observers ball guys whatever you [TS]

00:42:21   like you didn't care until the character [TS]

00:42:23   on the game until you realize his son [TS]

00:42:25   died and he stole his son is not like [TS]

00:42:27   he's sitting him sitting by the grave [TS]

00:42:28   that's the best thing in the entire [TS]

00:42:29   frizzy and like that just like nails you [TS]

00:42:31   right it's not in the first season was [TS]

00:42:33   not miss yet this is the first season [TS]

00:42:35   Allen calling upset to Peter's greywacke [TS]

00:42:37   I mean they dropped it pretty heavy [TS]

00:42:39   before that like there are definitely a [TS]

00:42:41   one-out they like her season firm that [TS]

00:42:43   they seal the deal here yeah and the [TS]

00:42:45   best thing was seeing Walter this [TS]

00:42:46   character who is either crazy or zany [TS]

00:42:48   just totally break down this it's a wait [TS]

00:42:50   wait you're not used to seeing a [TS]

00:42:51   character that you've come to care about [TS]

00:42:52   and realizing that that he kind of [TS]

00:42:55   deserves a lot of the insanity that you [TS]

00:42:57   got maybe you know I mean like that was [TS]

00:42:58   a big payoff when X Files used to do was [TS]

00:43:01   do the ark episodes at the end of the [TS]

00:43:03   season and the beginning of the next and [TS]

00:43:04   they would just do for bookends 22 [TS]

00:43:06   episodes in two episodes then back to [TS]

00:43:08   Monster the weekend that the theory or [TS]

00:43:09   everything thats the Star Trek next [TS]

00:43:11   generation bright red kimono so I was [TS]

00:43:13   just saying it's interesting because [TS]

00:43:14   I've seen I've seen one of the monster [TS]

00:43:16   of the week episodes of fringe and then [TS]

00:43:18   it's very first season I haven't seen [TS]

00:43:19   anything else and now you guys talking [TS]

00:43:21   about it just made me kind of curious to [TS]

00:43:23   go back and never come out [TS]

00:43:25   yeah and now I'm everything started [TS]

00:43:26   their season guys are with the second [TS]

00:43:28   season is there no you I think you have [TS]

00:43:31   to i don't know i'm a complete I'm a [TS]

00:43:32   completionist usually i would say start [TS]

00:43:34   at the beginning angle yeah because it [TS]

00:43:35   you know why is going to be some paper [TS]

00:43:37   all right they're easy to digest to like [TS]

00:43:40   it's another thing where ya the monster [TS]

00:43:42   of the week episode you know what's [TS]

00:43:43   gonna like that they go by the numbers [TS]

00:43:44   like this is a strange thing that [TS]

00:43:46   happens like just like long are they [TS]

00:43:48   find a dead body in the beginning [TS]

00:43:49   somebody's head to the same interaction [TS]

00:43:51   like every comment about halfway through [TS]

00:43:53   the first season is one of my friends [TS]

00:43:55   who who watches the show maybe tweet [TS]

00:43:57   about something like so i guess i should [TS]

00:43:58   stop getting attached to all these [TS]

00:44:00   characters IC infringed before the [TS]

00:44:02   before this happened yeah and with the [TS]

00:44:04   way my wife put that is don't they watch [TS]

00:44:06   the show [TS]

00:44:06   don't they don't go in there don't they [TS]

00:44:07   know that they're on fringe [TS]

00:44:10   they're gonna die if [TS]

00:44:11   they go in there if you if the only [TS]

00:44:12   watch the show they would know [TS]

00:44:14   well we've got a little bit more time [TS]

00:44:17   o.o before he goes up and watch by the [TS]

00:44:19   way alternate universe in fridge has [TS]

00:44:21   this one it's allowing Zeppelin's that's [TS]

00:44:23   how you know three years of that left 12 [TS]

00:44:25   probably Cybermen in there too [TS]

00:44:26   probably because alternate universes [TS]

00:44:28   with Zeppelin's there's actually another [TS]

00:44:30   good show at least I i am not a badass [TS]

00:44:32   battlestar galactica watcher and I have [TS]

00:44:34   to preface it with that and I've never [TS]

00:44:35   seen either battlestar galactica which [TS]

00:44:37   may make me a horrible syfy without [TS]

00:44:39   original and really awesome we have [TS]

00:44:41   anything on x-files watcher and a non [TS]

00:44:44   new battlestar galactica watch her on [TS]

00:44:45   the syfy television now it is shining [TS]

00:44:48   it's really scary time we take all kinds [TS]

00:44:49   here John [TS]

00:44:50   we're a big family by Errol I'm gonna [TS]

00:44:53   come on the comics com podcast and we [TS]

00:44:54   have no standards but in any case i [TS]

00:44:57   started watching caprica when it [TS]

00:44:59   premiered in January which is I guess [TS]

00:45:02   watching out [TS]

00:45:03   yeah sorry i fell asleep there when you [TS]

00:45:06   mention Caprica [TS]

00:45:07   ah that's terrible no I mean I i watched [TS]

00:45:10   it but I do I knew it was a prequel go [TS]

00:45:15   ahead and I'll go ahead no no no I mean [TS]

00:45:18   I I knew it was a prequel to battlestar [TS]

00:45:19   galactica but i had no idea what they [TS]

00:45:21   were two other than I know there are [TS]

00:45:23   things called silence and that's all I [TS]

00:45:25   knew going into this and actually first [TS]

00:45:27   couple episodes of caprica are slow they [TS]

00:45:30   are very very slow but at the same time [TS]

00:45:33   oddly intriguing i mean it's very it's a [TS]

00:45:35   very political show its its political [TS]

00:45:37   sci fi and it's about robots and then [TS]

00:45:40   the creation of robots and I Jason's [TS]

00:45:43   looking like no no ID but hell no I i [TS]

00:45:45   watched the first 45 episode yeah and I [TS]

00:45:47   i found it kind of fascinating [TS]

00:45:49   intellectually and yet the fairies just [TS]

00:45:52   very slow-paced and you know i'm not [TS]

00:45:54   asking for planes to go through [TS]

00:45:55   wormholes in the end of the first [TS]

00:45:57   episode I just I I wasn't quite sure [TS]

00:45:59   where they were going or or what they [TS]

00:46:01   were doing and I'm not sure they didn't [TS]

00:46:03   either and they are so many different [TS]

00:46:04   moving pieces I i will say i think them [TS]

00:46:08   coming back to it which is is this is [TS]

00:46:09   episode 10 but theoretically it's [TS]

00:46:12   supposed to be the second the start of [TS]

00:46:13   the second season or seasonally now I've [TS]

00:46:16   yeah exactly yeah they've named it but I [TS]

00:46:18   mean it was very very slow i watched [TS]

00:46:20   maybe the first six or seven episodes in [TS]

00:46:22   one chunk when I was sick one [TS]

00:46:24   like one point but at the side say at [TS]

00:46:27   episode like eight or nine it starts to [TS]

00:46:29   pick up and you start kind of getting [TS]

00:46:30   all of these plots kind of intertwining [TS]

00:46:33   and now like with the opening of the set [TS]

00:46:35   this the entire the entire show is [TS]

00:46:38   really based around the concept of you [TS]

00:46:40   know what if we can bring sort of the [TS]

00:46:42   soul of a person into the digital world [TS]

00:46:44   and work with that like what if that can [TS]

00:46:46   be a pseudo afterlife and there's a [TS]

00:46:47   whole like religious aspect and the [TS]

00:46:49   religious aspect is starting to take out [TS]

00:46:51   more of more of a main focus in this [TS]

00:46:54   second half of the season I don't know [TS]

00:46:55   it really piqued my curiosity and it's [TS]

00:46:58   not necessarily my favorite sci-fi show [TS]

00:47:00   on television because they're still it [TS]

00:47:01   has problems but I definitely like I i [TS]

00:47:04   have it on my list and i'm watching it [TS]

00:47:07   regularly and I'm i'm intrigued to see [TS]

00:47:09   where we'll go assuming it lasts longer [TS]

00:47:10   than the season [TS]

00:47:12   yeah I'm not sure I mean it's been on [TS]

00:47:14   for a long time already i'm surprised [TS]

00:47:15   that it wasn't canceled already have a [TS]

00:47:17   bike shop is 20 episodes right they shot [TS]

00:47:20   the 20 episodes and and I was going to [TS]

00:47:22   say yeah that they didn't like a fringe [TS]

00:47:24   went through an entire first season but [TS]

00:47:26   paid off at the end and it seems like [TS]

00:47:27   Africa came and went on break without [TS]

00:47:30   paying off anything so I was like well [TS]

00:47:31   that's it for that show i guess it's [TS]

00:47:32   been cancelled i'll never see it again [TS]

00:47:33   and they didn't even have time to pay [TS]

00:47:35   off but now it's back so maybe at the [TS]

00:47:37   end of the 20 it will still pay off on I [TS]

00:47:40   I suspect so i think that the ratings [TS]

00:47:42   have been so lackluster that they [TS]

00:47:45   decided stretch out the time and then [TS]

00:47:47   that would give them more time to decide [TS]

00:47:48   that they want to bring it back I'd be [TS]

00:47:49   surprised if it comes back just because [TS]

00:47:51   it seems like it's not really catching [TS]

00:47:53   on but you never know [TS]

00:47:55   i I just couldn't why I mean I felt so [TS]

00:47:58   so angry and badly burned by the end by [TS]

00:48:02   the last season about hot glass like I [TS]

00:48:04   just I'm just gonna yeah I'm just yeah [TS]

00:48:07   i'm just depressed super angry and sad [TS]

00:48:09   there's a whole podcast would be done [TS]

00:48:10   about that I don't hold grudges though [TS]

00:48:11   because i like that the first few [TS]

00:48:14   seasons about our collective I like [TS]

00:48:15   install fond memories of the program [TS]

00:48:17   together just because they screwed up at [TS]

00:48:18   the end doesn't make me I I the more I [TS]

00:48:20   looked it's one of those shows that I [TS]

00:48:22   looked back and it really ruined a lot [TS]

00:48:23   of the earlier episodes there are [TS]

00:48:24   romantic episodes and just pretend those [TS]

00:48:26   are really don't exist [TS]

00:48:27   no but even the second season there are [TS]

00:48:29   still some terrible terrible episode [TS]

00:48:31   well everybody's I wanted two bad ones [TS]

00:48:33   it's like the Star Wars prequels just [TS]

00:48:34   pretending [TS]

00:48:35   Kristen you have a much happier life hey [TS]

00:48:37   I heard the other day that run more [TS]

00:48:39   maybe rebooting wild wild west so I'm [TS]

00:48:41   willing to give that a shot because I do [TS]

00:48:42   like Ron Moore and if you're watching a [TS]

00:48:44   good Ron Moore Show albeit one that also [TS]

00:48:46   doesn't have an ending curveball and [TS]

00:48:47   yeah I intentionally didn't start that [TS]

00:48:50   because i heard that it died before it [TS]

00:48:51   ended well speaking of of shows that uh [TS]

00:48:55   that I think are are encouraging yeah [TS]

00:49:00   I'm gonna throw out stargate universe [TS]

00:49:01   which I'm so woefully behind on now i'm [TS]

00:49:03   like 10 episodes behind on it but the [TS]

00:49:05   it's I think it actually gets hampered [TS]

00:49:08   by the fact that it's a Stargate show [TS]

00:49:10   because it's so unlike it really is like [TS]

00:49:12   the weird stepchild or offspring I guess [TS]

00:49:15   of Battlestar Galactica and stargate [TS]

00:49:17   because it's much darker Stargate was [TS]

00:49:19   this bright and shiny first five seasons [TS]

00:49:21   of stargate i love because they're just [TS]

00:49:23   they're from they're happy friendly go [TS]

00:49:25   through this and explore new worlds kind [TS]

00:49:27   of stuff and then they kind of [TS]

00:49:28   disappeared up there anything I Anderson [TS]

00:49:29   that's all we have made anderson i love [TS]

00:49:31   ya those first five years and then he [TS]

00:49:33   kind of like goes in the background in [TS]

00:49:34   their government conspiracies and became [TS]

00:49:35   the x-files and it was a disaster so [TS]

00:49:38   this this new show is saddled with that [TS]

00:49:41   history and yet I thought was pretty [TS]

00:49:42   good in trying to be different in that [TS]

00:49:45   the pilot doesn't end up with a sort of [TS]

00:49:47   reset where everybody's happy and ready [TS]

00:49:49   to go on adventures that the problems [TS]

00:49:50   put out the pilot take you know episode [TS]

00:49:53   after episode i think they finish the [TS]

00:49:55   pilot not having air or water or food [TS]

00:49:58   and then the first episode they've got [TS]

00:49:59   to try to find a way to get air and the [TS]

00:50:01   next one is trying to find a way to get [TS]

00:50:02   water and try to get food and a little [TS]

00:50:04   circle and yeah well in in in and uh I'm [TS]

00:50:08   embracing unlikable characters the lead [TS]

00:50:10   character and stargate universe is [TS]

00:50:13   robert carlyle character and he's a DJ [TS]

00:50:15   jerk so I i think that show is [TS]

00:50:18   interesting although some for some [TS]

00:50:22   reason not gripping enough for me to [TS]

00:50:24   actually have kept current with it to [TS]

00:50:26   the point where I'm like a half a dozen [TS]

00:50:28   episodes behind now and I like Johnson [TS]

00:50:30   is john scalzi is the is the the science [TS]

00:50:33   consultant fight through it [TS]

00:50:35   well your story story controlling yeah [TS]

00:50:37   and I can sort of feel that too because [TS]

00:50:39   it's its outsized it's not you know kind [TS]

00:50:41   of hard sci-fi realism but there's some [TS]

00:50:43   some character realism and there's some [TS]

00:50:45   resistance to sort of the standard kind [TS]

00:50:49   sci-fi show plot device where you hit [TS]

00:50:51   the big reset button at the end of every [TS]

00:50:53   episode where you get the sense that [TS]

00:50:54   this is kind of a meandering story and [TS]

00:50:57   there's characters who aren't like a [TS]

00:50:58   ball and ones who are and they're [TS]

00:50:59   changing over time and you know I it's [TS]

00:51:02   not a anything I'd say it's like a [TS]

00:51:04   grade-a kind of show but I I'm [TS]

00:51:06   encouraged by because it I I fully [TS]

00:51:09   expected to hate the pilot and i ended [TS]

00:51:11   up watching whatever eight or ten [TS]

00:51:12   episodes of it and not not feeling bad [TS]

00:51:15   about it because I thought that was kind [TS]

00:51:17   of drinking you know it's interesting [TS]

00:51:19   because I think that's what it really [TS]

00:51:20   comes down to is not so much that we all [TS]

00:51:23   necessarily get invested in genre shows [TS]

00:51:26   so much as I think I'll you know for the [TS]

00:51:28   most part I think the people who like [TS]

00:51:31   sonra chose a tend to cross over pretty [TS]

00:51:33   well with people who like shows that [TS]

00:51:34   have those non resetting plots that have [TS]

00:51:37   a longer build that have characters that [TS]

00:51:40   develop and change over time I mean I [TS]

00:51:42   wouldn't like that would make it more [TS]

00:51:43   standard shows don't write and one of [TS]

00:51:45   the things about genre shows is that [TS]

00:51:46   because they are not setting a real [TS]

00:51:47   universe there's like chance for things [TS]

00:51:49   you haven't seen before that you know I [TS]

00:51:52   don't need to see another cop show or [TS]

00:51:53   another even space cops quite honestly [TS]

00:51:56   or space lawyers but of you know i-i-i [TS]

00:51:59   wanna see something they're not just [TS]

00:52:00   that like that you can have a good cop [TS]

00:52:02   shit like the wire for sure can have a [TS]

00:52:04   good cop shortly [TS]

00:52:05   that's about people develop over time [TS]

00:52:07   about challenging questions that really [TS]

00:52:08   you know tries to build something in [TS]

00:52:11   rather than showing you all 45 minute [TS]

00:52:14   movie every week shows you a like rich [TS]

00:52:17   story you know series that builds over [TS]

00:52:20   time that really uses TV as its medium [TS]

00:52:23   and i think that's that's really what a [TS]

00:52:25   lot of people you know I know we're sort [TS]

00:52:27   of focused on geek stuff here but I [TS]

00:52:29   think I like that idea of you know [TS]

00:52:31   really good television being something [TS]

00:52:32   that uses that this medium this serious [TS]

00:52:35   cereal episodic stories helping to its [TS]

00:52:38   fullest and like the wire is interesting [TS]

00:52:41   because it is such a you know cop shell [TS]

00:52:43   that's that's pretty well-trod [TS]

00:52:45   convention there and by simply being [TS]

00:52:47   more true to what real human beings are [TS]

00:52:50   like it defies the genre conventions of [TS]

00:52:53   the cop show right so sci-fi has you [TS]

00:52:55   know even more conventions i find is [TS]

00:52:57   this like a road convention for house is [TS]

00:52:59   done and when you get a sci-fi show it [TS]

00:53:01   can repel against the combined [TS]

00:53:02   she's a regular TV it can also repel [TS]

00:53:04   against the conventions of sci-fi and [TS]

00:53:05   sometimes just the the sci-fi [TS]

00:53:07   conventions repel against the [TS]

00:53:08   conventions of regular TV so when you [TS]

00:53:10   have something with people who are [TS]

00:53:11   acting what you think like real people [TS]

00:53:13   would act like and define multiple [TS]

00:53:15   conventions at the same time it's just [TS]

00:53:16   incredibly interesting and will enable I [TS]

00:53:18   think that appeals to get the most they [TS]

00:53:20   want to see something they haven't seen [TS]

00:53:21   before and that's a great tool to do it [TS]

00:53:23   sometimes the sci-fi conventions go [TS]

00:53:25   right they leave the convention center [TS]

00:53:27   and they attack the Renaissance Faire [TS]

00:53:28   that's on the other side of the street [TS]

00:53:29   to that's a lady's in 20 states as the [TS]

00:53:34   heroes of futurama I it's it's it's time [TS]

00:53:37   yeah alright uh I'm sorry sci-fi [TS]

00:53:40   conventions like I i was picturing [TS]

00:53:42   something else there for a second but i [TS]

00:53:43   think you're right i and and i like that [TS]

00:53:45   when I CSI show like I said with [TS]

00:53:48   stargate universe thing please me the [TS]

00:53:49   most was that they didn't take the easy [TS]

00:53:51   way out with this predicament yeah I [TS]

00:53:53   thought it would be Gilligan's Island [TS]

00:53:54   right you know you you [TS]

00:53:56   well we've got the shipwreck episode and [TS]

00:53:57   then we will place them in a state where [TS]

00:54:00   I know what you're trying to do there [TS]

00:54:02   and then we place them in a state where [TS]

00:54:04   it'll just be repeatable and we'll go [TS]

00:54:05   that way forever and that's not what [TS]

00:54:06   they did not like a hot this is [TS]

00:54:08   interesting i will watch more of this [TS]

00:54:09   now because it's absurd my my [TS]

00:54:12   expectations of what otherwise it [TS]

00:54:15   becomes lost in space or starting writer [TS]

00:54:17   or manipulation thank you yes [TS]

00:54:19   yeah exactly starter voice is a great [TS]

00:54:21   example which I know this is going to be [TS]

00:54:22   different and yet at the end of the [TS]

00:54:23   episode everybody had their the end of [TS]

00:54:25   the ship was fine and everybody had [TS]

00:54:26   their clean uniforms and all the rebels [TS]

00:54:29   had joined up with the crew and then it [TS]

00:54:32   stayed like that essentially for the [TS]

00:54:33   entire run of the show which and that's [TS]

00:54:35   why i stopped watching very out exactly [TS]

00:54:38   alright well I think we've done enough [TS]

00:54:41   damage for one podcast i hope that we've [TS]

00:54:44   given you some ideas of things that you [TS]

00:54:46   could watch out there dear list or not [TS]

00:54:47   we're not watch as the case may be I [TS]

00:54:49   think we've done that done that here on [TS]

00:54:52   the podcast to hopefully serenity will [TS]

00:54:54   go and and watch some fringe now i'll [TS]

00:54:56   add it to my ever-growing list of [TS]

00:54:58   television that I need to catch up on [TS]

00:54:59   all right that's fair enough that's fair [TS]

00:55:01   enough those dvds are available for for [TS]

00:55:04   many of these alright so that's it for [TS]

00:55:07   now thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

00:55:09   listening to the incomparable podcast on [TS]

00:55:11   Jason snail and i would like to thank [TS]

00:55:13   the [TS]

00:55:13   my fellow members of the podcast ren [TS]

00:55:16   serenity called well thank you very much [TS]

00:55:17   hanky Jason dan more'n textures and John [TS]

00:55:21   siracusa thank you again [TS]

00:55:23   [Music] [TS]

00:55:24   alright until next time thanks for [TS]

00:55:26   listening goodbye law-and-order Atlantis [TS]

00:55:30   coming this spring to NBC visit us at [TS]

00:55:35   www.piofl.com [TS]

00:55:38   [Music] [TS]