The Incomparable

6: Go Ahead, Lisa, Destroy My Childhood


00:00:00   the incomparable podcast number six [TS]

00:00:04   September 2010 [TS]

00:00:06   [Music] [TS]

00:00:08   we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:14   I'm Jason Snell the topic today is comic [TS]

00:00:16   book club yay and joining me are the [TS]

00:00:19   fellow members of the comic book club [TS]

00:00:21   jason reitman a and Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

00:00:23   hello [TS]

00:00:24   alright so we're back we managed to make [TS]

00:00:27   it to a second one that is always a good [TS]

00:00:28   milestone [TS]

00:00:29   that's right we're doubling its easy to [TS]

00:00:31   do one it's like the first annual now [TS]

00:00:33   it's a recurring feature it is here now [TS]

00:00:36   we don't know recurring right I really [TS]

00:00:39   issue to sales drop well yeah after [TS]

00:00:41   after an issue one that's the sophomore [TS]

00:00:43   slump but you figure after five or six [TS]

00:00:45   podcast we can release the trade version [TS]

00:00:47   of the podcast where it's all bound [TS]

00:00:49   together one long conversation [TS]

00:00:50   alright we can sketch in some of the [TS]

00:00:52   stuff we cut out of the podcast because [TS]

00:00:55   it wasn't worth listening to and we can [TS]

00:00:57   stick it in the end and call it added [TS]

00:00:58   value and charge you more for it right [TS]

00:01:00   so that the introduction or give us the [TS]

00:01:02   introduction [TS]

00:01:02   we've got to get a celebrity to do that [TS]

00:01:04   for I read it yes so ever know it'll [TS]

00:01:06   just be one of the other people from one [TS]

00:01:07   of the other episodes of the [TS]

00:01:08   uncomfortable i'll just have you know [TS]

00:01:10   Dan more and we read a little [TS]

00:01:11   introduction I always wanted to be on [TS]

00:01:13   this but it just never worked out [TS]

00:01:14   I enjoy listening to the comparables [TS]

00:01:17   comic book up public lat [TS]

00:01:18   although i am not a member yes something [TS]

00:01:21   like that anyway welcome thanks for [TS]

00:01:23   coming in we are all present in person [TS]

00:01:25   which is so I know it will shock the [TS]

00:01:27   listeners to know not always the case [TS]

00:01:29   when we record these podcast many many [TS]

00:01:31   times we have to keep people locked in [TS]

00:01:33   their little homes and and use the [TS]

00:01:35   internet i'm gonna have to skype in a [TS]

00:01:37   few months [TS]

00:01:38   okay yeah yes I went there so there's a [TS]

00:01:41   young future comic book reader on the [TS]

00:01:44   way you so so that will be a challenge [TS]

00:01:46   we always going to say we should get a [TS]

00:01:49   couple of these in the can before you [TS]

00:01:51   know one on maternity leave so that we [TS]

00:01:53   can know Lisa still reading comics sure [TS]

00:01:56   yes all timely references have been [TS]

00:01:58   removed but for his haha so i just read [TS]

00:02:02   this apocalypse plotline x-men what is [TS]

00:02:04   that about this kid pride gonna stay [TS]

00:02:06   with the x-men gonna be very well the [TS]

00:02:08   great thing about comics they recycle [TS]

00:02:10   the same story every decade or so so we [TS]

00:02:13   still be very timely yes example good [TS]

00:02:15   cables on the rise [TS]

00:02:16   it all comes around again I am I so to [TS]

00:02:22   start out [TS]

00:02:22   I thought we would talk about TV I know [TS]

00:02:25   this is not the TV podcast is the comic [TS]

00:02:28   book club but the worlds of TV and [TS]

00:02:31   movies and comic books are colliding in [TS]

00:02:33   fact some might say that the comic book [TS]

00:02:36   industry is rapidly becoming an R&D lab [TS]

00:02:39   for the movie and TV industry and that [TS]

00:02:43   the publishing aspect of it is more of [TS]

00:02:46   an adjunct tenant and a little niche [TS]

00:02:47   product where the the main business I [TS]

00:02:51   and I don't think this is unreasonable [TS]

00:02:52   to say this but the main business of [TS]

00:02:54   comic book publishing is coming up with [TS]

00:02:57   properties and stories I single [TS]

00:02:59   properties you have to create creating I [TS]

00:03:00   mean why disney by Marvel around you [TS]

00:03:02   your they wanted these these characters [TS]

00:03:04   and they've got more storylines that [TS]

00:03:06   they can work into TV shows and they can [TS]

00:03:07   work in to move and I know this is gonna [TS]

00:03:09   be painful but the truth is there's no [TS]

00:03:11   money in publishing what I was a blog [TS]

00:03:15   post on the beat today that was taking a [TS]

00:03:16   look at the salary breakdowns and [TS]

00:03:18   they're currently paying editors about [TS]

00:03:20   30 to 45 thousand dollars see and [TS]

00:03:23   they're paying Community Managers twice [TS]

00:03:24   that alright with it and that's actually [TS]

00:03:26   a shocking thing about the comic [TS]

00:03:28   companies how little these people are [TS]

00:03:30   paid and they it's partially because [TS]

00:03:32   it's such a fan audience that even if [TS]

00:03:35   any of these editors complained and was [TS]

00:03:37   like I need more money and less like a [TS]

00:03:39   lucky break the job there's also like 30 [TS]

00:03:41   other people who would want to do with [TS]

00:03:43   the hill to be in that seat the argument [TS]

00:03:45   would be most of them can actually do [TS]

00:03:47   the job but some of them can right right [TS]

00:03:49   yeah when you're interested in being in [TS]

00:03:51   the media right that's the thread being [TS]

00:03:52   a writer or an editor is especially [TS]

00:03:53   writer like Oh everybody's a writer [TS]

00:03:55   everybody is willing to be a writer and [TS]

00:03:57   it may not be good [TS]

00:03:58   their job they maybe you just don't know [TS]

00:04:00   but there's a large pool of talent out [TS]

00:04:01   there that even if they don't make [TS]

00:04:03   headaches for their boss they will get [TS]

00:04:04   hired [TS]

00:04:04   that's right but i always thought that [TS]

00:04:06   there was a kind of natural affinity [TS]

00:04:08   between comics and television because [TS]

00:04:10   both of them tend to rely on very [TS]

00:04:12   episodic storytelling we're even if you [TS]

00:04:14   have self-contained issues or [TS]

00:04:16   self-contained episodes of a TV show [TS]

00:04:18   both comics and TV reward you sticking [TS]

00:04:21   with it in the long term and and having [TS]

00:04:23   these serialize regularly scheduled [TS]

00:04:25   investments in your time and energy so [TS]

00:04:27   it's kind of a natural shift to say that [TS]

00:04:29   I go [TS]

00:04:30   really walking dead once a month to [TS]

00:04:32   watching an episode of once a week on TV [TS]

00:04:34   interesting though I think that's kind [TS]

00:04:35   of switched in a way in that you know [TS]

00:04:37   historically comics were that very [TS]

00:04:39   cereal istic thing and you could read [TS]

00:04:41   x-men for 20 years and chris claremont [TS]

00:04:43   may or may not have finished the [TS]

00:04:45   plotline idea where television in was [TS]

00:04:49   everything I'd like a reset switch at [TS]

00:04:51   the end of every episode where it didn't [TS]

00:04:53   matter if you missed a few because the [TS]

00:04:54   characters really don't change and now [TS]

00:04:56   television he really is doing that [TS]

00:04:58   rewarding you know in the last decade or [TS]

00:05:01   so we're comics on the other hand have [TS]

00:05:03   gone the other direction because our [TS]

00:05:04   writing for the trade there doesn't seem [TS]

00:05:06   to be those long rewarding stories and [TS]

00:05:09   that if you keep following it they don't [TS]

00:05:10   have those lights subtle quiet moments [TS]

00:05:12   and economics have almost become TV [TS]

00:05:13   seasons whereas TV season's almost [TS]

00:05:15   become long-form comic books yeah well [TS]

00:05:17   that they have come together right yeah [TS]

00:05:18   that's me a good way of looking at every [TS]

00:05:20   TV episode is self-contained even if [TS]

00:05:22   well I mean there are a few examples [TS]

00:05:24   like the wire where you can watch an [TS]

00:05:26   episode of the wire and and I think I [TS]

00:05:28   mentioned this in the previous podcast [TS]

00:05:29   occasionally and a wire episode just [TS]

00:05:32   ends and and my wife turns to me we're [TS]

00:05:34   watching the the wire we finished the [TS]

00:05:36   third season now and she'll say oh so [TS]

00:05:37   that's where they ended this time huh [TS]

00:05:39   because there is no ending but most TV [TS]

00:05:42   shows actually do have a beginning [TS]

00:05:43   middle and an end of an episode and [TS]

00:05:45   inside story arc which is very much like [TS]

00:05:48   a comic book that's got a story arc but [TS]

00:05:51   also has some amount of self-contained [TS]

00:05:53   right as it has to overlook any of the [TS]

00:05:55   sort of modern comics being produced by [TS]

00:05:57   Marvel or DC and i would say 99% of the [TS]

00:06:00   individual pamphlet issue comics don't [TS]

00:06:03   have a beginning middle and end it's [TS]

00:06:04   just clearly this is the beginning of a [TS]

00:06:07   six-issue story or the middle of a [TS]

00:06:08   six-issue story and those middle ones [TS]

00:06:10   like where nothing really happens it's [TS]

00:06:12   sort of all they need to make the six [TS]

00:06:13   issues for the trade in some ways you [TS]

00:06:15   could view the trades as the TV episode [TS]

00:06:17   as part of a large right and not in the [TS]

00:06:20   park this head that monthly things more [TS]

00:06:22   of your commercial break in the episode [TS]

00:06:23   you don't miss about the monthly so is [TS]

00:06:26   back in the eighties they used to have [TS]

00:06:27   callbacks to previous issues where you [TS]

00:06:29   have somebody give some exposition and [TS]

00:06:31   there'd be an asterisk and you'd say see [TS]

00:06:32   issue whatever you have a fry out yet [TS]

00:06:34   footnote and those really super helpful [TS]

00:06:36   because if you had just picked up an [TS]

00:06:37   issue [TS]

00:06:38   you got a sense of where the story began [TS]

00:06:39   or ended and get a sense this is a piece [TS]

00:06:42   of a bigger universe [TS]

00:06:43   I said you could diet yeah if you go to [TS]

00:06:45   a comic book store and seek out that and [TS]

00:06:47   we don't get shot now you see these [TS]

00:06:49   tremendous promotional blitz for things [TS]

00:06:51   but haven't helped if you don't pick up [TS]

00:06:52   in the first issue of that plot line [TS]

00:06:54   because you're lost or if there are [TS]

00:06:57   callbacks two previous runs or previous [TS]

00:06:59   plot developments [TS]

00:07:01   there's never an astrocyte see issues [TS]

00:07:03   number extra why I looked through my new [TS]

00:07:06   mutants classic trades and what's really [TS]

00:07:08   kind of funny about those as they still [TS]

00:07:10   have the footnotes in there that [TS]

00:07:11   reference all of the other series that [TS]

00:07:13   they were tied into it the time to those [TS]

00:07:15   will be and that's the initial run of [TS]

00:07:17   the mutants we have picked a sunspot [TS]

00:07:19   cannonball magma the app where that with [TS]

00:07:22   it they were basically you know the [TS]

00:07:24   Savior's like well i have a bunch of [TS]

00:07:26   guys that I lost in a cave [TS]

00:07:28   let us at the reboots which surely don't [TS]

00:07:30   come back [TS]

00:07:31   yeah let's hit the radio savage Landor [TS]

00:07:34   wherever they were right let's you know [TS]

00:07:35   let's have kitty pryde interact with [TS]

00:07:37   their peers and have it go badly [TS]

00:07:38   Oh what they were in space with the [TS]

00:07:39   brood and the starjammers right was that [TS]

00:07:41   when they found the New Mutants was that [TS]

00:07:43   sorry I'm you know I can't remember if [TS]

00:07:45   it's lost in the cave or in space with [TS]

00:07:46   the new mutants if they were in space [TS]

00:07:48   with the starjammers in the brood [TS]

00:07:49   because then they can't the x-men came [TS]

00:07:51   back and they fought for at least four [TS]

00:07:52   panels with the new modalities gray is [TS]

00:07:55   the new mutants didn't know that who the [TS]

00:07:56   x-men were and there was a brood hiding [TS]

00:07:58   in one of the back corridors because he [TS]

00:08:00   doesn't have to fight us right [TS]

00:08:02   exactly yes so good and then your [TS]

00:08:04   enemies kicked out of the x-men yeah [TS]

00:08:05   it's got someone's father is around for [TS]

00:08:07   a few episodes reviews jerk classic [TS]

00:08:10   stuff but all interlocked and lot of [TS]

00:08:11   footnotes because that was part of and [TS]

00:08:13   it's actually looking back on that sort [TS]

00:08:15   of sweets like they had two comics now [TS]

00:08:17   they're like hey I got an idea let's do [TS]

00:08:19   a second comic that set and more or less [TS]

00:08:21   the same place and will refer back and [TS]

00:08:22   forth one of course now you'll you end [TS]

00:08:24   up with ten that are all trying to my [TS]

00:08:26   god yes it's no longer enjoyable [TS]

00:08:29   well I don't do those big events anymore [TS]

00:08:31   because if i were a regular serious [TS]

00:08:33   writer why would I want to invest extra [TS]

00:08:34   time and money and picking up that the [TS]

00:08:36   variance entire for example samsung next [TS]

00:08:39   one reader [TS]

00:08:39   why would I also want to pick up the [TS]

00:08:40   Avengers four-issue miniseries on on [TS]

00:08:43   whatever the big event is plus the whole [TS]

00:08:44   planets and daredevil grace spider-man [TS]

00:08:47   plus the runaways plus you forget [TS]

00:08:50   ok so before we get too far off track i [TS]

00:08:51   want to bring back bring back [TS]

00:08:53   marble we could go we have to go on well [TS]

00:08:56   yes so so too i think bits of [TS]

00:09:00   interesting TV news regarding comic [TS]

00:09:03   adaptation for TV and there are other [TS]

00:09:04   directions we can take this conversation [TS]

00:09:06   for example there are there's a comic [TS]

00:09:08   book at least one maybe two comic like [TS]

00:09:10   in terms of topic new TV shows like no [TS]

00:09:13   ordinary family with Michael Chiklis [TS]

00:09:15   which is sort of the incredibles [TS]

00:09:16   live-action version case was coming [TS]

00:09:18   areas American here on the Cape [TS]

00:09:19   yeah we also have some TV series that [TS]

00:09:22   have turned into comics you see that a [TS]

00:09:24   little bit i think the most interesting [TS]

00:09:25   example for me is Buffy Season eight [TS]

00:09:27   where you actually had the creative team [TS]

00:09:29   in large part of a TV series after after [TS]

00:09:32   the show has ended [TS]

00:09:33   continuing on in there have been some [TS]

00:09:34   other graphic novel continuations to I [TS]

00:09:36   believe edward james olmos was [TS]

00:09:38   discovered that if you want to tell the [TS]

00:09:39   story what happened to Commander Adama [TS]

00:09:40   after the last episode of battlestar [TS]

00:09:42   galactica all you need to do is talk to [TS]

00:09:44   some web-sites a graphic novel and magic [TS]

00:09:46   things will happen [TS]

00:09:48   I'm not sure that's such a great idea [TS]

00:09:49   but but that but the primary focus is [TS]

00:09:52   the walking dead which premieres on [TS]

00:09:55   halloween on AMC an adaptation of Robert [TS]

00:09:58   Kirkman's an excellent black-and-white [TS]

00:10:00   comic book series although [TS]

00:10:02   nightmare-inducing they'll never great [TS]

00:10:04   yeah it's great great for a great issue [TS]

00:10:06   48 is great for the pregnant ladies I oh [TS]

00:10:09   I read through my brother had how much [TS]

00:10:12   my brother had collected most all of the [TS]

00:10:15   trades up to November last year and when [TS]

00:10:17   i visited for thanksgiving i read [TS]

00:10:18   through them all in like a two-day [TS]

00:10:20   stretch and then had nightmares for the [TS]

00:10:21   next two nights just because i had [TS]

00:10:22   mainline this coming for two days [TS]

00:10:25   straight and couldn't get out of my head [TS]

00:10:26   before that's like that's how I read [TS]

00:10:28   yeah yeah I just as well i bought the [TS]

00:10:31   here's a tip for people who haven't [TS]

00:10:32   gotten into the walking dead if you want [TS]

00:10:34   to take a chance your best value is [TS]

00:10:37   there's an omnibus and I home and it's [TS]

00:10:40   all 48 issues the first 48 issues of the [TS]

00:10:43   story with a very fitting and dark [TS]

00:10:45   conclusion right story line at the end [TS]

00:10:47   of it and it's it's a it's like 20 bucks [TS]

00:10:49   it's really cheap 448 issues of a comic [TS]

00:10:52   right and it's great-looking distracted [TS]

00:10:53   by how he draws children and your [TS]

00:10:55   building smiley that's my only complaint [TS]

00:10:57   is is charles charles adler dizzy is on [TS]

00:11:00   it [TS]

00:11:00   yeah because I've always had a problem [TS]

00:11:01   he draws kids and he's got the [TS]

00:11:03   proportions off they're almost like the [TS]

00:11:04   middle-aged representation work shrunken [TS]

00:11:06   adults but once you once you can get [TS]

00:11:08   past that you're here like wow this is [TS]

00:11:10   really great yeah the just going on with [TS]

00:11:13   that hold the Omnibus 448 issues if you [TS]

00:11:15   don't like your comics as one giant [TS]

00:11:17   telephone book size kind of addition [TS]

00:11:20   seriously they big telephone right ma [TS]

00:11:23   curtain is awesome in that they released [TS]

00:11:26   the walking dead in pretty much every [TS]

00:11:28   format you can get hardcover you can get [TS]

00:11:30   hard covers that cover a year of the [TS]

00:11:31   issue so in fact that 48 issue thinking [TS]

00:11:33   it has four hardcovers or you could get [TS]

00:11:36   it as a trade paperbacks yeah or to my [TS]

00:11:39   personal favorite the two absolute [TS]

00:11:41   editions which was sort of like the DC [TS]

00:11:43   absolute collections where these [TS]

00:11:45   oversized almost 11 x 17 hardback [TS]

00:11:47   slipcase hundred-dollar beautiful coffee [TS]

00:11:50   table they weigh a million pounds really [TS]

00:11:52   portable not portable but an awesome way [TS]

00:11:54   to read it and experienced in the art so [TS]

00:11:56   big [TS]

00:11:57   yeah I decided to go for the Omnibus [TS]

00:11:59   this yeah so so AMC the people who [TS]

00:12:02   brought you such heralded TV series as [TS]

00:12:05   Mad Men and Breaking Bad have committed [TS]

00:12:08   to the walking dead series [TS]

00:12:10   rumor has it that they've even gone so [TS]

00:12:12   far as to commit to a second season [TS]

00:12:14   although it may be that they're waiting [TS]

00:12:15   for the ratings before they officially [TS]

00:12:16   related I've seen conflicting reports [TS]

00:12:19   there but it's a six-episode season so [TS]

00:12:21   it's pretty short [TS]

00:12:22   I think they were you hesitant to to do [TS]

00:12:24   a long run but the buzz is really good [TS]

00:12:28   as as people who read the walking dead [TS]

00:12:30   though [TS]

00:12:31   what do you think about prospect of this [TS]

00:12:32   is a series is this a the right kind of [TS]

00:12:35   graphic novel comic series they always [TS]

00:12:37   the marketing people always know the [TS]

00:12:38   graphic novel i love into its comics [TS]

00:12:40   must be the mystery science theater 3000 [TS]

00:12:42   joke where it i forget which robot it [TS]

00:12:45   was that read them and get into graphic [TS]

00:12:47   novel comic book for stickin ceramic not [TS]

00:12:50   the graphic novel but regardless what do [TS]

00:12:52   you think about walking dead as a TV [TS]

00:12:55   show instead of as a complex series i [TS]

00:12:59   would say that walking dead is one of [TS]

00:13:00   the the sort of comic properties that [TS]

00:13:02   makes the most sense as a TV show it is [TS]

00:13:05   so episodic and so much about the [TS]

00:13:08   development of these characters and you [TS]

00:13:09   really get into sort of the characters [TS]

00:13:11   lives [TS]

00:13:12   and that scene when they forget after [TS]

00:13:15   they've gone through so much trauma and [TS]

00:13:17   stuff and they get to that prison and [TS]

00:13:18   they have that sort of relief like here [TS]

00:13:21   have truly working spoiler right yeah [TS]

00:13:24   but they were isn't sequence and raise [TS]

00:13:26   is like a high point in the series for [TS]

00:13:27   me when when they come over the hill and [TS]

00:13:29   there's that prison and I like we could [TS]

00:13:31   be safe here their study notice this [TS]

00:13:32   prison is salvation yeah the subsequent [TS]

00:13:35   stories in it again na right explores [TS]

00:13:37   the the meaning of what it really means [TS]

00:13:38   to be incarcerated [TS]

00:13:40   it's not a throwaway that they find a [TS]

00:13:41   prison rail it is like when Kirkman [TS]

00:13:43   takes them to the prison you do get the [TS]

00:13:45   sense that he's committed to exploring [TS]

00:13:47   all of the variations of what does it [TS]

00:13:49   mean to be setting up a civilization [TS]

00:13:52   inside this prison instead of what you [TS]

00:13:54   might get somewhere else which is a [TS]

00:13:56   prison and then we were there for a [TS]

00:13:58   couple issues and then we left and went [TS]

00:13:59   and moved on as an oz viewer you know I [TS]

00:14:01   the whole time i was when i was reading [TS]

00:14:03   through the prison issues i was i was [TS]

00:14:04   kind of thing about always in the back [TS]

00:14:06   of my head and the fact that you have [TS]

00:14:08   these people who are civilians to all of [TS]

00:14:09   a sudden move into the prison and they [TS]

00:14:11   run into the cons and you think these [TS]

00:14:13   are almost like two separate species of [TS]

00:14:14   individual and how are they ever going [TS]

00:14:16   to connect how are they going to band [TS]

00:14:17   together against a common enemy if you [TS]

00:14:19   did the walking good as a movie he [TS]

00:14:22   wouldn't do your point would be a zombie [TS]

00:14:23   movie right we just be there would be an [TS]

00:14:25   action arc and that there be some [TS]

00:14:27   characters and so I think that goes to [TS]

00:14:28   the heart of what you say about him it [TS]

00:14:30   being appropriate a TV show is it really [TS]

00:14:32   is about characters right what happens [TS]

00:14:34   to the characters and none of them are [TS]

00:14:35   you doing the same right and that's [TS]

00:14:37   actually also what worries me a bit is [TS]

00:14:40   one of the interesting things about [TS]

00:14:41   walking dead is all the characters to [TS]

00:14:42   develop characters that you love and [TS]

00:14:43   invest time in spoiler alert they die [TS]

00:14:47   we have lots and anybody's right and [TS]

00:14:50   that they you know you get the sense [TS]

00:14:51   after a while that no one is safe and [TS]

00:14:53   when you have a TV show with main actors [TS]

00:14:56   and stars and secondary thing you always [TS]

00:15:00   know that like well nothing really Bad's [TS]

00:15:01   gonna happen that's the main character [TS]

00:15:02   of the show [TS]

00:15:03   yeah we're in the comic oh that's not [TS]

00:15:05   true and so how is that going to [TS]

00:15:07   translate into television is it gonna be [TS]

00:15:09   you take the main character one of the [TS]

00:15:11   main characters and well I you know [TS]

00:15:13   they're they're no longer have the [TS]

00:15:15   ability to do that because they've got [TS]

00:15:16   the blueprint of the comic series they [TS]

00:15:18   can say hi character [TS]

00:15:20   we're hiring you just so you know you're [TS]

00:15:22   gonna get killed at the end of the [TS]

00:15:23   second season [TS]

00:15:24   sorry that we're gonna decide for the [TS]

00:15:26   first two and then you're gone or the [TS]

00:15:28   first three and then you're gone right [TS]

00:15:30   that gives me that that they know where [TS]

00:15:32   the story is going in a way that a [TS]

00:15:34   regular TV writer wouldn't that the two [TS]

00:15:36   things I'm really curious about our one [TS]

00:15:38   how are they going to handle the [TS]

00:15:39   ceaseless tension because if it's one [TS]

00:15:41   thing that I think about the walking [TS]

00:15:42   dead is almost never any relief even [TS]

00:15:44   when a plot arcs to a complete finish [TS]

00:15:46   you don't have that oh well that's okay [TS]

00:15:49   and now they're off to new adventures [TS]

00:15:51   no they're still stuck on a planet [TS]

00:15:52   that's filled with zombies and right [TS]

00:15:54   life is hard life is life is never going [TS]

00:15:56   to get easier it's it's a pretty grim [TS]

00:15:58   series and it's not that funny and I [TS]

00:16:00   worry no no the reason is because when [TS]

00:16:03   you have something is unrelentingly [TS]

00:16:05   tense there there's often a temptation [TS]

00:16:06   to throw in some comic relief or [TS]

00:16:08   something just so people laugh and get [TS]

00:16:09   the rent and release out how are they [TS]

00:16:11   going to handle this on TV where people [TS]

00:16:13   actually do tune in for some sort of [TS]

00:16:15   catharsis right and I i think some of [TS]

00:16:17   the interesting stuff that happens in [TS]

00:16:18   the book with what the characters go [TS]

00:16:20   through and some of the way the [TS]

00:16:20   characters hook up in all is about [TS]

00:16:23   breaking that tension that they all feel [TS]

00:16:25   and as a reader when you're reading this [TS]

00:16:27   series it's hard to put down [TS]

00:16:28   yes you feel that tension too and you [TS]

00:16:30   just want to ride it out to see what's [TS]

00:16:32   the second thing wondering about is it's [TS]

00:16:33   an incredibly violent series just just [TS]

00:16:36   incredibly gruesomely violent and how [TS]

00:16:39   are they going to handle it when there [TS]

00:16:40   are people [TS]

00:16:41   spoiler alert when there are people [TS]

00:16:42   using plastic pliers to pull the teeth [TS]

00:16:44   that amount of zombie children or [TS]

00:16:46   gruesomely torturing folk or just all [TS]

00:16:49   the various gonna play that results in [TS]

00:16:51   kapil's parts of the murders suicides [TS]

00:16:52   had he's yelling apart right yeah or [TS]

00:16:55   there was some outcome was a blank here [TS]

00:16:57   is it Sharona Siobhan the one who made [TS]

00:16:59   it through to the prison by against [TS]

00:17:01   whereby maniacally some zombies 2 we're [TS]

00:17:03   using them as as his shield yes as a [TS]

00:17:06   shield like how how did you swing that [TS]

00:17:08   and I hope though they don't use the [TS]

00:17:10   comic as too much of a blueprint and use [TS]

00:17:13   it as the basis and then do what works [TS]

00:17:15   in TV in a way and because they're [TS]

00:17:17   different mediums and the same story [TS]

00:17:19   lines for Batum aren't going to [TS]

00:17:21   translate what right i think following [TS]

00:17:23   the plot arc and saying people here's [TS]

00:17:25   what's going to happen they're gonna [TS]

00:17:26   he's gonna go into this into the city [TS]

00:17:28   he's going to meet people they're going [TS]

00:17:29   to end up on this on the road they're [TS]

00:17:30   gonna find a prison there's gonna be [TS]

00:17:32   stuff in the prison and there's going to [TS]

00:17:33   be a [TS]

00:17:34   then it's going to be a community nearby [TS]

00:17:35   because every post apocalyptic story has [TS]

00:17:37   that like militaristic community that [TS]

00:17:39   sometimes runs into his rented by a [TS]

00:17:41   dictator always happens and I was sort [TS]

00:17:43   of sad when i saw that in the walking [TS]

00:17:44   dead but they handled it really well [TS]

00:17:45   yeah but you know so and then and then [TS]

00:17:48   you can go on from there and say one [TS]

00:17:49   then and then down the road we'll talk [TS]

00:17:51   about like taking another road trip [TS]

00:17:52   trying to find the source of you know [TS]

00:17:54   maybe how this happened or where the [TS]

00:17:55   government is and all of that those [TS]

00:17:57   points along the way are probably good [TS]

00:18:00   to have like i said to give them an idea [TS]

00:18:02   of direction but the details i think [TS]

00:18:04   you're totally right hand details need [TS]

00:18:06   to happen in the contract with TV one [TS]

00:18:08   thing I hope it doesn't become though [TS]

00:18:09   you know why did this happen how did [TS]

00:18:11   this happen let's try to solve that [TS]

00:18:12   mystery mystery and I think that we're [TS]

00:18:14   not in the comic that's like mentioned [TS]

00:18:16   maybe twice ever in just a couple I [TS]

00:18:18   sandals they're like we're a little busy [TS]

00:18:19   trying not to be eaten be right over [TS]

00:18:21   here when I'm not even to the evenings [TS]

00:18:23   but what are we gonna eat and how do you [TS]

00:18:25   go anywhere because the highways are all [TS]

00:18:27   clogged with cars and now there's no [TS]

00:18:28   gasps there's no working society is not [TS]

00:18:30   working in that structure right that's [TS]

00:18:32   so interesting and from a character [TS]

00:18:34   standpoint which is again that the [TS]

00:18:35   brilliance of the walking dead is that [TS]

00:18:37   it does what most ami stories don't do [TS]

00:18:39   which is deal with these larger issues [TS]

00:18:41   of how do we survive [TS]

00:18:43   can we survive can we raise children in [TS]

00:18:46   this it at comic-con there was a panel [TS]

00:18:50   of teachers and librarians talking about [TS]

00:18:53   using comics in classrooms and one of [TS]

00:18:55   the things they talked about was using [TS]

00:18:57   the walking dead with with teenagers [TS]

00:19:00   yeah yeah such fifth grade my god no [TS]

00:19:04   need to talk about questions of culture [TS]

00:19:06   and Emma question there was about zombie [TS]

00:19:08   post zombie apocalypse culture and how [TS]

00:19:11   characters in The Walking Dead or [TS]

00:19:12   worried that their kids are going to [TS]

00:19:13   grow up not just worried that the kids [TS]

00:19:15   are going to grow because they're gonna [TS]

00:19:16   get eaten by a zombie but they're going [TS]

00:19:17   to grow up in a in a culture without [TS]

00:19:20   knowing what all the trappings of our [TS]

00:19:22   previous culture were and like how do we [TS]

00:19:24   keep the culture alive and that is stuff [TS]

00:19:26   that you just don't as much fun as some [TS]

00:19:29   kind of traditional zombie movies can be [TS]

00:19:31   as action vehicles and the fact is there [TS]

00:19:35   is a lot of time spent mourning for the [TS]

00:19:36   dead culture and wondering how you can [TS]

00:19:38   possibly survive in a world where all [TS]

00:19:40   the cars are filling the the lanes of [TS]

00:19:42   highways and there's no gasoline and [TS]

00:19:44   there's no food and there's nothing like [TS]

00:19:45   that and and so to get to that and say [TS]

00:19:47   you know this isn't just about surviving [TS]

00:19:49   it's also about it or not just about [TS]

00:19:51   killing zombies it's also about like [TS]

00:19:53   surviving in the long term and how the [TS]

00:19:54   heck do we do that and get along [TS]

00:19:55   together that's a great thing about what [TS]

00:19:57   happened did and that Batman that's the [TS]

00:19:59   core of drama right right and that's [TS]

00:20:01   what works why it works pretty good yeah [TS]

00:20:03   featured steady existential you know [TS]

00:20:05   basic existential like will we be able [TS]

00:20:07   to continue existing kind of core drama [TS]

00:20:10   right it's their one of the genius [TS]

00:20:12   things with the walking dead is it's [TS]

00:20:13   basically the stand with zombies [TS]

00:20:15   yeah because when you think about this a [TS]

00:20:17   lot doesn't remember no and without some [TS]

00:20:19   of the mystical about Randall Flagg but [TS]

00:20:21   there's something you know there's a lot [TS]

00:20:22   of this if you went back and reread it [TS]

00:20:24   my last vacation and there's just a lot [TS]

00:20:26   of time that Stephen King actually [TS]

00:20:27   devotes to talking about how lost people [TS]

00:20:30   are with their infrastructure goes away [TS]

00:20:31   where there are people who have no idea [TS]

00:20:32   how to get running [TS]

00:20:33   just just look at new orleans after [TS]

00:20:35   katrina society is very fragile [TS]

00:20:37   oh yeah first World Western societies [TS]

00:20:39   really fragile x 1 i'd be curious about [TS]

00:20:41   I don't know and I don't think they're [TS]

00:20:42   ever going to do this in the walking [TS]

00:20:43   dead because there's how could you swing [TS]

00:20:45   it but I'd love to find out how to [TS]

00:20:47   network everybody is fine exactly hahaha [TS]

00:20:49   they did that and y the last man [TS]

00:20:50   remember the very yeah against Cuellar [TS]

00:20:52   at the very end of it you know they're [TS]

00:20:54   like it turns out the women on the [TS]

00:20:55   plains of Africa were fine because they [TS]

00:20:57   were already used to be hunters and [TS]

00:20:58   gatherers they just picked up and [TS]

00:20:59   carried on it was you know the [TS]

00:21:01   interdependence societies ever host so y [TS]

00:21:03   the last man is going is in movie [TS]

00:21:05   development isn't it with the movies [TS]

00:21:08   that that's what I actually think we'd [TS]

00:21:09   be better as a TV show isn't true i said [TS]

00:21:11   this about watchmen for a long time and [TS]

00:21:13   I mentioned this on our in our movie [TS]

00:21:15   podcast have been 12 issue HBO series [TS]

00:21:18   that kind of thing where it's you know a [TS]

00:21:20   12-episode like the band of brothers [TS]

00:21:23   event where it's it's one and done you [TS]

00:21:25   know and something like something [TS]

00:21:26   self-contained like why I could I could [TS]

00:21:28   see again as a series because there's so [TS]

00:21:30   much story there that that you could [TS]

00:21:33   tell it was a movie if you only took the [TS]

00:21:34   first couple of trade paperbacks maybe [TS]

00:21:36   then it's an amazing i'm doing right [TS]

00:21:38   right that's why I comics in general [TS]

00:21:40   probably work better as a serialize TV [TS]

00:21:42   show then a two-hour movie because [TS]

00:21:45   they're they're written with the same [TS]

00:21:46   interstitial storytelling right at least [TS]

00:21:47   at least all these kind of good books [TS]

00:21:49   from kirk manner von that we're talking [TS]

00:21:51   about [TS]

00:21:51   well not to get back to Buffy which I [TS]

00:21:54   mentioned earlier but Joss Whedon has [TS]

00:21:56   said on many occasions that Buffy the [TS]

00:21:58   buffy TV series and talk about your [TS]

00:22:00   to work better as a TV show the movie by [TS]

00:22:02   the way is greatly is really his version [TS]

00:22:06   of spider-man [TS]

00:22:07   yeah except taking hold of some kind of [TS]

00:22:09   superhero trappings away and having it [TS]

00:22:11   be the strong female character but it is [TS]

00:22:13   it is Peter Parker in in high school [TS]

00:22:16   with all of the social complications [TS]

00:22:18   plus superpowers which makes it even [TS]

00:22:20   more complicated and and that's what why [TS]

00:22:22   i love that show is because i always [TS]

00:22:24   love that aspect of the spider-man story [TS]

00:22:26   group and then Buffy really is that now [TS]

00:22:28   I know Marvel's talking about now that [TS]

00:22:29   they're part of disney making more comic [TS]

00:22:32   based TV shows and I suspect it's only a [TS]

00:22:34   matter of time before we see the Peter [TS]

00:22:36   Parker TV series isn't aren't they doing [TS]

00:22:38   the new spider-man film is sort of an [TS]

00:22:40   ultimate spider-man [TS]

00:22:41   yeah I'll removed as opposed to it [TS]

00:22:42   really work better as a TV show my [TS]

00:22:44   argument is you can look at something [TS]

00:22:45   like Buffy and say I think I think [TS]

00:22:47   spider-man or at least the I guess [TS]

00:22:49   smallville would be the example right [TS]

00:22:50   words what if we took a my comic [TS]

00:22:52   superhero and made his high school [TS]

00:22:55   period the the the subject of on [TS]

00:22:58   long-running TV show where you can [TS]

00:23:00   really get into those issues and small [TS]

00:23:02   has been on the air since the forties [TS]

00:23:03   right at this point and welding has lost [TS]

00:23:05   his teeth and it's very sad but that I [TS]

00:23:07   having only seen like one episode that [TS]

00:23:09   that was the premise of that show to [TS]

00:23:11   write with an ok so let's talk about [TS]

00:23:13   some failures like the words of prey [TS]

00:23:16   ok i was thinking you and next oh yeah [TS]

00:23:19   which I don't actually ever watched an [TS]

00:23:21   episode of to pray you and you love the [TS]

00:23:22   comic right one of the comic i really do [TS]

00:23:25   it would within the TV show anything to [TS]

00:23:28   do with the comic-con vaguely other than [TS]

00:23:30   the traditional have a man appear in the [TS]

00:23:32   comic at any point that man has appeared [TS]

00:23:35   in gross army not in the comic in the TV [TS]

00:23:37   show [TS]

00:23:37   not one don't know don't nobody say bad [TS]

00:23:39   but it wasn't the main person in the TV [TS]

00:23:41   show the daughter of Batman and Catwoman [TS]

00:23:44   know what they did what they did and [TS]

00:23:46   this was just it was one of those things [TS]

00:23:48   where if you're if you're into any [TS]

00:23:49   resembles a continuity you're tearing [TS]

00:23:51   her again that's not how it's supposed [TS]

00:23:52   to go is you have of course oracle and [TS]

00:23:55   she's the titular protagonist random [TS]

00:23:57   things resolved revolve what they did is [TS]

00:23:59   they took the daughter of the Black [TS]

00:24:00   Canary that the daughter that Black [TS]

00:24:02   Canary had with green arrow and she goes [TS]

00:24:04   into the family business sort of [TS]

00:24:05   unleashes profoundly ambivalent about it [TS]

00:24:07   because they needed to have they [TS]

00:24:09   basically tried to set the maiden mother [TS]

00:24:10   krone dynamic with with three women [TS]

00:24:13   damned you have to have your maiden and [TS]

00:24:15   that has to be the the new Black Canary [TS]

00:24:17   and it was just oh here Ricky will teach [TS]

00:24:21   you the ropes of fighting crime in this [TS]

00:24:22   city and by the way my shrink happens to [TS]

00:24:26   be Harley Quinn in her spare time and [TS]

00:24:29   yeah and it was just it was made it but [TS]

00:24:32   if it works like a change everything if [TS]

00:24:33   it worked right and a big problem was [TS]

00:24:35   that it didn't work out but one of the [TS]

00:24:38   things that made one of the reasons i [TS]

00:24:39   like birds of prey at the girls even the [TS]

00:24:42   trucks and run to be fair but one of the [TS]

00:24:43   reasons of birds of prey actually worked [TS]

00:24:44   was because you had a group of women who [TS]

00:24:47   were professional colleagues and they [TS]

00:24:49   had and they had to work together and [TS]

00:24:52   the friendships are valuable but often [TS]

00:24:54   secondary or you know sometimes the [TS]

00:24:56   interpersonal relationships got in the [TS]

00:24:58   way of doing a professional job there [TS]

00:24:59   was a brief plot point in the gail [TS]

00:25:01   simone where power girl has a huge [TS]

00:25:02   falling-out with the birds of prey [TS]

00:25:03   because she doesn't like how she's being [TS]

00:25:04   asked to work and has to work being out [TS]

00:25:07   fighting crime [TS]

00:25:08   yeah okay because Oracle has methods and [TS]

00:25:10   Power Girl disagreed with them and it [TS]

00:25:12   turned into a thing and it affected [TS]

00:25:14   their friendship as well as the [TS]

00:25:15   professional relationship and whereas [TS]

00:25:18   this was I think like a WB series seven [TS]

00:25:20   hours it was basically the baby was in [TS]

00:25:23   the in after smallville was a successful [TS]

00:25:25   yeah but they would do another DC and it [TS]

00:25:27   was kind of like sex in the city meets [TS]

00:25:29   spandex it was really just yeah and it [TS]

00:25:32   was it was it was it was less about the [TS]

00:25:35   fact that these women saw themselves as [TS]

00:25:37   okay clearly I have the ability to kick [TS]

00:25:39   somebody's butt or clearly I have the [TS]

00:25:41   ability to find any information anywhere [TS]

00:25:43   and let's see if i can make money off of [TS]

00:25:45   that more along the lines of oh I'm so [TS]

00:25:46   conflicted [TS]

00:25:48   I'm a woman and a superhero however like [TS]

00:25:50   however will I cope and it was just bad [TS]

00:25:53   all had survived i think better part of [TS]

00:25:56   the season and then never intended even [TS]

00:25:58   automated a full season it was it was a [TS]

00:26:00   pretty early casualty from what i can [TS]

00:26:01   remember Jason any any memorable TV [TS]

00:26:05   comic book failures on your list [TS]

00:26:08   well there was I mean the mute next [TS]

00:26:10   thing so thinking nette-c realized chris [TS]

00:26:13   claremont approach like oh the x-men [TS]

00:26:14   unions that would might make a good TV [TS]

00:26:16   show and then I remember they tried that [TS]

00:26:17   with even x which loosely I think tied [TS]

00:26:22   to the comic Mutant X which was later [TS]

00:26:24   spin-off of like the secondary act [TS]

00:26:26   factor team with traffic and and I where [TS]

00:26:29   it was actually a some sort of legal [TS]

00:26:31   deal there where they had did sold the [TS]

00:26:33   rights to the x-men you to a different [TS]

00:26:35   studios I couldn't do an x-men comic but [TS]

00:26:37   they could do for xmas show but they [TS]

00:26:39   could do a mutant x show and then there [TS]

00:26:40   was a lawsuit right there's something [TS]

00:26:42   weird and I never actually watched any [TS]

00:26:43   of it but it didn't last very long but [TS]

00:26:45   it was you know mute didn't work [TS]

00:26:47   a mutant Academy kind of again but i [TS]

00:26:50   felt when i visit to have to have [TS]

00:26:51   superpower people in a high school say [TS]

00:26:53   I'm right but that's the whole idea of [TS]

00:26:55   250,000 novel about that actually so [TS]

00:26:57   it's in troy what strangers is a common [TS]

00:27:00   is a comic they've they've rebooted that [TS]

00:27:02   new x-men concept a bunch of times and [TS]

00:27:04   then grit and then grant Morris had his [TS]

00:27:06   new x-men run we're basically he took it [TS]

00:27:09   back to the Academy and put all of the [TS]

00:27:11   classic excellent background with the [TS]

00:27:13   exception of Scott Emma and focused on a [TS]

00:27:15   new class of people and once you've [TS]

00:27:18   finished that run someone hit the reset [TS]

00:27:20   button and isn't the problem with TV [TS]

00:27:22   shows doing classic superheroes those [TS]

00:27:24   classic defined as classic sort of [TS]

00:27:27   superheroes style is that actors don't [TS]

00:27:30   look good in spandex and they don't know [TS]

00:27:32   so you have to read you have to change [TS]

00:27:34   this is where we have the black leather [TS]

00:27:35   models do the reactors don't and uh and [TS]

00:27:39   that superpowers are hard to show in [TS]

00:27:41   like that right more this way ETA I and [TS]

00:27:43   the practical effects and so you find [TS]

00:27:45   cartoons work well well and that's why I [TS]

00:27:47   think ultimately joss whedon did what he [TS]

00:27:49   did with Buffy which is like well I [TS]

00:27:50   can't really do spider-man but I could [TS]

00:27:51   do this where they read where regular [TS]

00:27:53   she's really fight and she could find [TS]

00:27:55   she can fight she can kick ass and [TS]

00:27:57   that's what she can do and that's her [TS]

00:27:58   power [TS]

00:27:59   what we're saying that we like about the [TS]

00:28:00   comics is that the sort of personal [TS]

00:28:02   drama stuff absent you can do the [TS]

00:28:05   superhero but you have it is like an [TS]

00:28:06   extreme background like those smallville [TS]

00:28:08   you know it's there yes way behind [TS]

00:28:10   because you can't know usually I'm on a [TS]

00:28:12   budget because what i was saying was [TS]

00:28:13   it's such a great idea and you know [TS]

00:28:15   we're talking about the the new x-men [TS]

00:28:17   and and all the stuff and yet for some [TS]

00:28:19   reason isn't it doesn't have traction [TS]

00:28:20   with comic audiences and actually wonder [TS]

00:28:22   if it's gonna if it would have better [TS]

00:28:23   traction on TV because again it is more [TS]

00:28:26   character-driven for the most part and [TS]

00:28:28   you don't have to worry about oh we're [TS]

00:28:30   going to blow FX budget this week on a [TS]

00:28:31   floating brain walking down the hall you [TS]

00:28:33   can just you know modify it to be right [TS]

00:28:35   no dl floating [TS]

00:28:37   in episode all right jack and it hit the [TS]

00:28:40   floating brain flies in a Zeppelin and [TS]

00:28:42   then I'm there's a little show everyone [TS]

00:28:45   that comes up with bring yeah all right [TS]

00:28:48   so the other TV show that they've talked [TS]

00:28:50   about being in development [TS]

00:28:51   The Sandman yes that was a good idea bad [TS]

00:28:55   idea [TS]

00:28:56   I'm really intrigued to see how they'll [TS]

00:28:58   do it because I've actually given this a [TS]

00:29:00   lot of thought believe it or not it's [TS]

00:29:01   one of those you know you're on the [TS]

00:29:02   stationary bike and you start thinking [TS]

00:29:03   what would happen it was thinking the [TS]

00:29:06   only way to do it successfully as if you [TS]

00:29:08   basically cut out every other trade [TS]

00:29:09   because the way that no because the way [TS]

00:29:11   they wrote that because the way no game [TS]

00:29:12   throughout the series is you know you [TS]

00:29:14   have a book where the plot advance and [TS]

00:29:16   then you have a book was basically a [TS]

00:29:17   roundup of oh this is dream back and [TS]

00:29:19   Shakespearean x 0 this is and then you [TS]

00:29:22   know another book with the plot advances [TS]

00:29:24   and then another round up of fables or [TS]

00:29:25   whatever and if you can cut out those [TS]

00:29:28   fables and and one shots and just focus [TS]

00:29:31   on the story of a guy who's basically [TS]

00:29:32   could be trying to prompt the universe [TS]

00:29:34   and to help him commit suicide that then [TS]

00:29:36   you've got your series is interesting [TS]

00:29:38   way to look at the series that the easy [TS]

00:29:40   you think about it he every step he [TS]

00:29:42   takes over the course of the series is [TS]

00:29:44   him doing something that's blatantly [TS]

00:29:46   against the self-interest here though [TS]

00:29:48   that the show ends up being a incredible [TS]

00:29:50   hulk style anthology series God that you [TS]

00:29:53   know where the same man has to go from [TS]

00:29:56   town to town and collect his items [TS]

00:29:59   well you know whose it was just that and [TS]

00:30:01   anyway and and learned important lessons [TS]

00:30:03   and business hours for good and then [TS]

00:30:06   moves on ya i think that's yeah I [TS]

00:30:09   thought Sandman is about that you know [TS]

00:30:11   you have to change or die [TS]

00:30:13   yeah and what happens when you make that [TS]

00:30:15   choice and essentially that's because he [TS]

00:30:17   chooses not to change basically um I [TS]

00:30:20   also like the family drama a spicy so [TS]

00:30:22   what you could have I was thinking that [TS]

00:30:23   you could TV do that kind of like a [TS]

00:30:26   whole different cast of characters a [TS]

00:30:27   whole different story every episode in [TS]

00:30:29   our series of episodes me with that kind [TS]

00:30:31   of family drama on top or in the [TS]

00:30:33   background latest in the series and was [TS]

00:30:35   like no that can't possibly be done and [TS]

00:30:37   then I remembered doctor who doctor who [TS]

00:30:40   does pull off having a completely [TS]

00:30:41   different show you are virtually pulls [TS]

00:30:44   off having a different show every [TS]

00:30:46   episode so yeah so the fact that you [TS]

00:30:49   some episodes could be [TS]

00:30:50   very little about dream and other [TS]

00:30:52   episodes can be a lot about dream or the [TS]

00:30:54   family and that hopefully you wouldn't [TS]

00:30:55   see the family very often because that's [TS]

00:30:57   something that that works well but only [TS]

00:30:59   in small doses and this became like hey [TS]

00:31:01   your body at the endless to do you know [TS]

00:31:04   it would we did just ridiculous right [TS]

00:31:07   but I mean that that's where you get [TS]

00:31:08   into it's more of an anthology series [TS]

00:31:10   with a through line which is rather than [TS]

00:31:13   a standalone in ecology serious right [TS]

00:31:15   because it at least you could you got [TS]

00:31:17   somebody to track that was that and [TS]

00:31:19   that's your premise of the incredible [TS]

00:31:20   home gonna hate to say it except that [TS]

00:31:22   there's probably a better modern example [TS]

00:31:24   where there's a show [TS]

00:31:24   maybe the x-files before it disappeared [TS]

00:31:27   up its own backside was like now where [TS]

00:31:28   we sort of a monster-of-the-week with a [TS]

00:31:31   through him to karen is doing that right [TS]

00:31:33   now [TS]

00:31:33   yes I find out where can it can be done [TS]

00:31:36   right but i'll show you shouldn't be [TS]

00:31:38   right good part of what the Sandman did [TS]

00:31:39   well was take all those old seventies or [TS]

00:31:42   sixties DC characters like the game [TS]

00:31:45   enable and use them and I don't know [TS]

00:31:46   that would work in television the way it [TS]

00:31:49   working well yeah there's not there's [TS]

00:31:51   also because i was there are some plot [TS]

00:31:52   lines that seemed made for TV like [TS]

00:31:54   there's that whole I think was the dolls [TS]

00:31:55   house plot line where you find out that [TS]

00:31:57   rose Walker is that what is the word for [TS]

00:32:00   it she's some nexus between the dream [TS]

00:32:02   world in the waking world and when she [TS]

00:32:03   has the names and she drags and [TS]

00:32:05   everybody her boardinghouse and you find [TS]

00:32:07   out all of their backstory for the ones [TS]

00:32:09   in the Golden Age Sandman you who ended [TS]

00:32:12   up being the parents of Danielle who [TS]

00:32:14   ended up being anyway spoiling it's just [TS]

00:32:17   there [TS]

00:32:17   the serial killer convention would be a [TS]

00:32:18   great arc as well and that's that's just [TS]

00:32:20   a great two story beginning to end [TS]

00:32:23   yeah anyway because it's just someone [TS]

00:32:25   couldn't really say never ever pull any [TS]

00:32:28   of that off i think the trick would be [TS]

00:32:29   subtle tea [TS]

00:32:31   you know the the research showing [TS]

00:32:32   restraint in the stories i guess the [TS]

00:32:34   question what to say that is because it [TS]

00:32:37   depends on what the people who are [TS]

00:32:38   making a TV show want from the TV show [TS]

00:32:39   for example walking garnish [TS]

00:32:41   well the government that the guy who is [TS]

00:32:43   linked to this is no is the showrunner [TS]

00:32:45   of supernatural yeah who is what I've [TS]

00:32:48   seen is generally thought to be a fairly [TS]

00:32:49   stand-up guy who kinda gets [TS]

00:32:52   genre TV and androgen source material it [TS]

00:32:55   is the thing it was Sandman was one of [TS]

00:32:58   the reasons it was quite successful and [TS]

00:32:59   interesting was it it was shara bending [TS]

00:33:02   as well [TS]

00:33:03   yeah so [TS]

00:33:04   how do you do that and Jonna if you [TS]

00:33:05   approach it as a genre i don't know if [TS]

00:33:07   it's gonna work because the whole thing [TS]

00:33:09   about the Sandman is it talked about it [TS]

00:33:10   it in its own narrative talked about [TS]

00:33:12   narrative and storytelling and it was a [TS]

00:33:14   story within a story and all those sort [TS]

00:33:16   of things that's so interesting to read [TS]

00:33:18   and think about but seeing it on the [TS]

00:33:20   screen [TS]

00:33:21   it's much harder also it's not exactly a [TS]

00:33:24   linear story because even write it does [TS]

00:33:26   bounce back and forth you get a lot of [TS]

00:33:28   flashbacks to a lot of different periods [TS]

00:33:29   and the whole missing brother thing [TS]

00:33:33   oh yeah that's the thing is that when [TS]

00:33:35   dream and delirium go looking for [TS]

00:33:36   destruction [TS]

00:33:38   that's basically a cross B hope road [TS]

00:33:41   trip right there it's really it's a well [TS]

00:33:43   it's a really funny sequence and it [TS]

00:33:45   would make a really funny plotline over [TS]

00:33:47   the course of a couple episodes but what [TS]

00:33:50   is the method will beat it depends it [TS]

00:33:51   could be played like three or four [TS]

00:33:52   different ways on TV and some of them [TS]

00:33:53   could be great but otherwise it's like a [TS]

00:33:55   look their wacky huh and now they've [TS]

00:33:57   found their brother who want something [TS]

00:33:58   to do with them and has a talking dog [TS]

00:33:59   you know it'sit's I smell series [TS]

00:34:02   yeah there's delirium alone would make a [TS]

00:34:04   great series and she's just wackiness [TS]

00:34:06   ensues CI I've only read the first like [TS]

00:34:11   this even met the family yet yeah no no [TS]

00:34:13   that's the thing that the family is so [TS]

00:34:15   interesting I wanted to be used very [TS]

00:34:18   very very infrequently one of the things [TS]

00:34:20   that game it does really well for the [TS]

00:34:21   entire series he drops enough clues to [TS]

00:34:23   keep utilized about some of these people [TS]

00:34:24   more characters but he never gives you [TS]

00:34:26   an explanation for example the youngest [TS]

00:34:29   one delirium was originally delight and [TS]

00:34:30   then one day she turned into the she was [TS]

00:34:32   turning into delirium and he never [TS]

00:34:34   explains why that happens it just did [TS]

00:34:35   but it was a bad thing [TS]

00:34:37   yeah and and there's so there's this [TS]

00:34:39   it's actually reference where he teases [TS]

00:34:42   the reader towards the end of it where [TS]

00:34:43   she pulls her head together for a moment [TS]

00:34:44   and asks her brother do you know why I [TS]

00:34:46   turned into delirium and he's like [TS]

00:34:48   actually now and she said well there are [TS]

00:34:50   things outside your world will never [TS]

00:34:51   know and that's basically game in [TS]

00:34:54   telling the audience get used to it [TS]

00:34:56   where did I get all the and I wonder if [TS]

00:34:58   TV audiences are ok with that because it [TS]

00:35:00   you know we're talking about a culture [TS]

00:35:01   where people right endlessly blog and [TS]

00:35:04   and recap shows to try to ring every [TS]

00:35:06   center of meaning of how are they going [TS]

00:35:08   to do if you've got source material that [TS]

00:35:10   admits hey I'm not going to give you all [TS]

00:35:12   the answers because i don't think you [TS]

00:35:13   need them well they might like a gazelle [TS]

00:35:15   then be able to project their own [TS]

00:35:17   right and talk about an endlessly on the [TS]

00:35:19   internet about what it means yeah well i [TS]

00:35:21   think the producers of lost spending the [TS]

00:35:23   last year that shows the on the air [TS]

00:35:24   saying they weren't going to answer all [TS]

00:35:26   the questions and the result was [TS]

00:35:27   everybody yelled at them for not [TS]

00:35:29   answering all the questions right like [TS]

00:35:30   all right well this is an interesting [TS]

00:35:32   issue is is there is a storyteller ever [TS]

00:35:34   contractually obligated to give you all [TS]

00:35:36   of the answers absolutely not no way [TS]

00:35:38   yeah but something still so she could [TS]

00:35:40   sense of entitlement among TV viewers a [TS]

00:35:42   lot of the time that every piece has to [TS]

00:35:44   have seven meaning it has to make sense [TS]

00:35:45   because most of TV isn't challenging or [TS]

00:35:48   and they've been trained to expect TV [TS]

00:35:50   did too to give it to them in this kind [TS]

00:35:52   of comfortable package but that doesn't [TS]

00:35:54   like 20 minutes and one of the things [TS]

00:35:56   that killed me about the criticism loss [TS]

00:35:58   there are lots of great reasons to [TS]

00:35:59   criticize last I think loss was a great [TS]

00:36:00   show i think was I I'm willing to [TS]

00:36:02   forgive its faults for it the ambition [TS]

00:36:04   that they had with it but the fact was [TS]

00:36:06   negatively they they were treating it [TS]

00:36:09   like a novel and one of the things that [TS]

00:36:11   great novels do is frustrate you [TS]

00:36:13   the difference is if you end a chapter [TS]

00:36:15   with a frustrating cliffhanger and then [TS]

00:36:16   you see that the next chapter is about a [TS]

00:36:18   different character and that you're [TS]

00:36:20   gonna have to wait multiple chapters to [TS]

00:36:21   get back to the thing that's frustrating [TS]

00:36:23   you you can power through and keep [TS]

00:36:25   reading whereas on TV it's the end of [TS]

00:36:28   the episode and you have to wait a week [TS]

00:36:29   and then if the first scene of the new [TS]

00:36:31   episode shows you that they're not going [TS]

00:36:32   to talk at all about what you saw the [TS]

00:36:34   last know what you're angry that whole [TS]

00:36:37   episode and then for the next time [TS]

00:36:38   you're carrying around which actually [TS]

00:36:40   happened on lost in that last season [TS]

00:36:41   they did a whole episode that was just a [TS]

00:36:43   flashback episode and people were up in [TS]

00:36:44   arms made the torches and pitchforks [TS]

00:36:46   this is why you just watch TV on DVD [TS]

00:36:48   because yeah because as a novelist [TS]

00:36:51   I mean novice they they have to [TS]

00:36:53   frustrate the reader that's that's part [TS]

00:36:56   of the storyline it had you have to kind [TS]

00:36:58   of what they doing it right but that's [TS]

00:37:01   actually one of the reasons why comics [TS]

00:37:02   work differently is a different media [TS]

00:37:04   then television even though on paper it [TS]

00:37:08   since you can kind of think it's the [TS]

00:37:09   same because they both have storyboards [TS]

00:37:11   writing comics a storyboard for film but [TS]

00:37:13   the difference in the comics is you [TS]

00:37:14   control the time and in a movie or TV [TS]

00:37:17   show you don't and that means different [TS]

00:37:20   narrative choices yet which is why Alan [TS]

00:37:23   Moore was always the watchman is not you [TS]

00:37:25   know can't be a film know and I reviews [TS]

00:37:27   read anything [TS]

00:37:28   I have you read anything by david lapham [TS]

00:37:30   david lapham the name is familiar but I [TS]

00:37:32   is not a lot of things but one of his [TS]

00:37:34   best works as a series called stray [TS]

00:37:36   bullets which was his creator-owned [TS]

00:37:38   which followed some interesting [TS]

00:37:40   characters and bad things happening to [TS]

00:37:42   them and it came out around the time of [TS]

00:37:45   pulp fiction and that sort of John was [TS]

00:37:49   as popular media and David lapins [TS]

00:37:51   storytelling was very much had that kind [TS]

00:37:53   of sense to it and started in the [TS]

00:37:55   seventies it kind of jumped all over [TS]

00:37:56   time wise but it was a group of [TS]

00:37:57   characters that followed as very really [TS]

00:37:59   good and interesting and he was [TS]

00:38:01   approached by a lot of Hollywood to make [TS]

00:38:04   stray bullets into a film because it [TS]

00:38:06   kind of already right eye and he said no [TS]

00:38:10   then stray bullet is a comic it would [TS]

00:38:12   only work as a comic I'm i'll happily [TS]

00:38:14   write you a film that has this kind of [TS]

00:38:16   thing in it but not stray bullets and he [TS]

00:38:20   probably have a lot more money now had [TS]

00:38:22   he done that sure but I respect totally [TS]

00:38:25   respected that he's like no stray [TS]

00:38:27   bullets as a comic and will only work as [TS]

00:38:29   a comic and I had to do with some of [TS]

00:38:30   that time and how you can manipulate [TS]

00:38:32   time and play with it and how the reader [TS]

00:38:34   bring stuff to it that you can't get [TS]

00:38:36   when you because in a way comic reading [TS]

00:38:38   is an active activity [TS]

00:38:40   yeah we're television watching a movie [TS]

00:38:42   watching as a passive activity so yeah [TS]

00:38:46   it's hard to Marshall McLuhan actually [TS]

00:38:48   broke it down differently where he'd be [TS]

00:38:50   differentiate between movies and TV and [TS]

00:38:52   I can remember the argument for the [TS]

00:38:53   different engagements but the others [TS]

00:38:54   when you're reading a comic I agree that [TS]

00:38:56   it's definitely more of a sense of you [TS]

00:38:58   have you have control over how you can [TS]

00:39:00   consume the narrative and with [TS]

00:39:02   television you again unless you're [TS]

00:39:04   watching on DVD if it's your wedding [TS]

00:39:06   from episode to come every week you are [TS]

00:39:07   at the mercy of someone else's schedule [TS]

00:39:09   and pacing and storytelling in a way [TS]

00:39:10   that that can be incredibly emotionally [TS]

00:39:13   frustrating fully invested in it so I'm [TS]

00:39:16   even even in the within the confines of [TS]

00:39:19   the story you know you can you at your [TS]

00:39:21   own pace and take your time or leap [TS]

00:39:24   ahead and and one second is one second [TS]

00:39:26   on TV with bacon do some compression but [TS]

00:39:29   they do the compression and make control [TS]

00:39:31   when it happens right that said you know [TS]

00:39:33   the TV and movies are are vastly more [TS]

00:39:36   popular media know [TS]

00:39:38   and comic books and I'm also the one of [TS]

00:39:41   the criticisms I would have about about [TS]

00:39:43   that that statement about the well you [TS]

00:39:46   know you can adapt this is that [TS]

00:39:47   everything is an application so it may [TS]

00:39:49   be true but if so it's sort of true for [TS]

00:39:50   everything I mean nothing is that we [TS]

00:39:52   talked about the walking dead earlier [TS]

00:39:54   the walking dead on AMC is not going to [TS]

00:39:56   be Robert Kirkman's the walking dead it [TS]

00:39:57   can't be even even even that watchman [TS]

00:40:00   movie which was about his faithful and [TS]

00:40:02   attempt to right to the source material [TS]

00:40:03   as possible and shows it can't be it's [TS]

00:40:06   not the same it is impossible so it's [TS]

00:40:09   always going to be a different thing I [TS]

00:40:11   think what you take out of an adaptation [TS]

00:40:12   is you maybe take some of the story [TS]

00:40:14   points to take some character names take [TS]

00:40:15   the look I mean that you take a [TS]

00:40:17   storyboard sometimes a lot of the promos [TS]

00:40:19   for i'm walking dead are essentially [TS]

00:40:21   like panels from the walking dead staged [TS]

00:40:25   as as photos as posters with live-action [TS]

00:40:28   characters so you can take bits and [TS]

00:40:30   pieces of it but in the end it's you [TS]

00:40:32   know it's gonna be with walking it's [TS]

00:40:34   gonna be frank darabont really kind of [TS]

00:40:36   putting together what the show is as [TS]

00:40:37   opposed to what Robert Kirkman did with [TS]

00:40:40   the and his artist with a comic just [TS]

00:40:43   think of the most successful partner [TS]

00:40:44   watch more than where the opening [TS]

00:40:45   credits which are basically stage like a [TS]

00:40:47   moving comic when you think about right [TS]

00:40:49   right it's a montage [TS]

00:40:50   yeah right and its narrative and it [TS]

00:40:52   works really really well and it has a [TS]

00:40:54   real comic feel that the rest of the [TS]

00:40:55   movie simply does not so whether a [TS]

00:40:57   property is successful it going from [TS]

00:41:00   comics to TV or film comes down to the [TS]

00:41:02   choices the producers and directors and [TS]

00:41:05   actors make in that adaptation i would [TS]

00:41:08   say that that's accurate that yet it's [TS]

00:41:09   it is in the details and it's not about [TS]

00:41:12   comics being fundamentally unfilmable or [TS]

00:41:15   filmer below [TS]

00:41:15   I think comics lend themselves really [TS]

00:41:17   well to that I think there are comics [TS]

00:41:20   that would never ever work as an [TS]

00:41:22   adaptation for example i'm thinking [TS]

00:41:23   about anything Alex Ross ever works on [TS]

00:41:25   because kill the kingdom come for [TS]

00:41:27   example that would be just a horrible [TS]

00:41:29   adaptation I think we'll keep the [TS]

00:41:31   interesting the no Kingdom Come was [TS]

00:41:32   seeing the future of all of these [TS]

00:41:33   characters and I don't have any of that [TS]

00:41:35   history is much less interesting but [TS]

00:41:37   something like Marvel's we have you kind [TS]

00:41:39   of walk through the history of the world [TS]

00:41:42   with the superhero like holy cats these [TS]

00:41:44   people are emerging and yet that could [TS]

00:41:45   be an interesting TV show told from the [TS]

00:41:47   point of view of the photographer really [TS]

00:41:49   i was thinkin be a nightmare to produce [TS]

00:41:51   just because one of the ways [TS]

00:41:52   marvel's works so well is because again [TS]

00:41:53   you got that beautiful alex ross [TS]

00:41:54   painting and composition and and [TS]

00:41:57   photorealism or whatever you want to [TS]

00:41:59   call it where it's obvious he's painting [TS]

00:42:00   models and how are you going to get that [TS]

00:42:03   sense of hyper reality when you're [TS]

00:42:05   shooting on TV it would be with the [TS]

00:42:06   whole thing was filmed in HDR oh god [TS]

00:42:08   they're a lot to tell to show you can do [TS]

00:42:11   that you can do that though one of my [TS]

00:42:13   favorite episodes to my top 10 of buffy [TS]

00:42:16   is never so called the Zeppo and the [TS]

00:42:19   entire premise of the Zeppo is you're [TS]

00:42:21   following along one of the supporting [TS]

00:42:23   characters and the main plot involving [TS]

00:42:25   the hero dispatching a villain that's [TS]

00:42:27   going to destroy the world if they can't [TS]

00:42:29   stop them happens in the background and [TS]

00:42:32   occasionally the main the the supporting [TS]

00:42:33   character will wander into the scene [TS]

00:42:35   where there's a giant tentacle packing [TS]

00:42:37   then there's a flames and things like [TS]

00:42:39   that but he's got to go over here and do [TS]

00:42:40   this other thing and it's great that [TS]

00:42:42   works as a change of pace [TS]

00:42:43   I'm not sure whether something like [TS]

00:42:44   Marvel's would work as its own thing [TS]

00:42:46   because it is again so I think depending [TS]

00:42:49   on the on the mythology and and and the [TS]

00:42:52   backstory but you know I think those are [TS]

00:42:54   those the Alex rasta I mean that is very [TS]

00:42:57   different from taking something that [TS]

00:43:00   that those are those are very very [TS]

00:43:02   different works i think that most of the [TS]

00:43:04   stuff that you see with it an albatross [TS]

00:43:06   it's also very old faithful to the [TS]

00:43:07   history in the the the legacy of these [TS]

00:43:10   characters and stuff if you go in the [TS]

00:43:12   other direction and do more of that [TS]

00:43:13   misty shears sort of great American hero [TS]

00:43:15   which takes the various genres elements [TS]

00:43:18   and kind of makes fun of them in place [TS]

00:43:19   with them or something that does it with [TS]

00:43:21   perhaps less cynicism the tick the tick [TS]

00:43:24   I was going to see you you teach the [TS]

00:43:25   subject to which is which which actually [TS]

00:43:28   works really well when all of its [TS]

00:43:29   without all of its adaptation right [TS]

00:43:31   there was a very successful election yes [TS]

00:43:33   very unsuccessful live action although [TS]

00:43:36   really could really final element in the [TS]

00:43:39   the way that mattered most which was [TS]

00:43:40   that it was good right yeah a 100 and I [TS]

00:43:43   really special style [TS]

00:43:44   yes which which is important because [TS]

00:43:46   that's actually one of the irrational [TS]

00:43:48   bugbears i have is if you're going to [TS]

00:43:49   take a visual medium like collect comic [TS]

00:43:51   books and then push it [TS]

00:43:52   TV then by God think about how you want [TS]

00:43:54   it to look what if you're going to show [TS]

00:43:56   that already know story a guy in a big [TS]

00:43:59   blue superhero suit you need [TS]

00:44:01   embrace the fact that it is going to [TS]

00:44:02   seem kind of ridiculous [TS]

00:44:04   yeah and and just look at everything so [TS]

00:44:06   with the tick there's that you know [TS]

00:44:08   they're the the robot that was built to [TS]

00:44:10   set the Russian robot Soviet robot built [TS]

00:44:12   to assassinate jimmy carter a pilot and [TS]

00:44:14   then I much cuter than jimmy carter and [TS]

00:44:17   there's a battle in an elevator and [TS]

00:44:18   there's you know it's one shade away [TS]

00:44:20   from being a fight in the sixties Batman [TS]

00:44:22   series right but you know under a sheet [TS]

00:44:24   in half an hour played for laughs oh [TS]

00:44:26   right but what about this is why i can [TS]

00:44:29   never take Nestor Carbonell seriously as [TS]

00:44:31   a bad guy to use is Manuel exact time [TS]

00:44:33   anyway [TS]

00:44:33   batmanuel to me so but yeah you're right [TS]

00:44:36   that didn't take is an awesome example [TS]

00:44:38   of adaptation both because from the book [TS]

00:44:40   to the cartoons they have like that was [TS]

00:44:43   a great car to write you haven't seen it [TS]

00:44:44   is worth for grown-ups get it all on DVD [TS]

00:44:47   read it and aid and put the [TS]

00:44:49   closed-captioned because we're closed [TS]

00:44:50   captioning for the theme song alone is [TS]

00:44:52   actually really really funny yeah and [TS]

00:44:54   then and then they had to adapt it again [TS]

00:44:55   for television [TS]

00:44:56   yeah and they have like the same [TS]

00:44:57   archetypes are there even though the [TS]

00:44:59   characters names or rights issues change [TS]

00:45:01   captain captain Liberty instead of [TS]

00:45:03   american-made and red and that Manuel [TS]

00:45:05   which is what a triangle to the later [TS]

00:45:08   rounds right yeah deflator mouse to [TS]

00:45:09   Batman well yeah this is such a great [TS]

00:45:12   just as many character flaws but Latin [TS]

00:45:14   another fairly successful adaptation [TS]

00:45:18   which is really into the radar was when [TS]

00:45:21   MTV around the max way back in the early [TS]

00:45:22   nineties i never because that was [TS]

00:45:25   nothing actually did see but on DVD of [TS]

00:45:27   that think it was part of their late [TS]

00:45:29   they would run on late-night first was [TS]

00:45:31   part of liquid television and then just [TS]

00:45:32   ran as a standalone bumped up against [TS]

00:45:34   beavis and butt-head because there's [TS]

00:45:36   your natural constituency and Tom but I [TS]

00:45:39   had never read anything by sam kieth i [TS]

00:45:41   just watched the series and then I went [TS]

00:45:43   back and read the comics and was really [TS]

00:45:44   there surprised at how nimbly he took [TS]

00:45:46   all of the the strength of comic book [TS]

00:45:48   was that written by mezclar lobe turn [TS]

00:45:51   and drawn by sam kieth I don't know I [TS]

00:45:55   just understand he's being associated [TS]

00:45:57   with her hundreds of uncomfortable [TS]

00:45:58   comics listeners saying the answer right [TS]

00:46:02   there listening but sadly we it's a [TS]

00:46:04   podcast you can't let us go ahead and [TS]

00:46:05   shout guys yes that was loud as you just [TS]

00:46:07   show i'm sorry it was the 90s it was on [TS]

00:46:09   @midnight I didn't pay attention to the [TS]

00:46:11   credits before we go I I one more [TS]

00:46:13   question which is if there was a comic [TS]

00:46:15   that's laying out there somewhere that [TS]

00:46:16   you would recommend say uh you happen to [TS]

00:46:19   run into a friend of yours from high [TS]

00:46:21   school and it turns out there a TV [TS]

00:46:22   producer and they're looking for new [TS]

00:46:23   properties they say you're into comics [TS]

00:46:25   you have anything i should look at [TS]

00:46:27   anything that we might be something that [TS]

00:46:29   we could turn into a a sellable kind of [TS]

00:46:32   property [TS]

00:46:33   do you have anything off the top of your [TS]

00:46:35   hand that you would you tell this person [TS]

00:46:36   that you just ran into on the sidewalk [TS]

00:46:38   if you're your enemy from high school [TS]

00:46:40   who now is looking for a a tip about [TS]

00:46:42   about comics you can think about it [TS]

00:46:45   well i think i have to ask for talking a [TS]

00:46:47   limited run series for something that [TS]

00:46:48   they want if they want a syndicated [TS]

00:46:50   resistance that isn't specific hey there [TS]

00:46:52   just looking for anything that they can [TS]

00:46:54   pick up their bosses they don't get [TS]

00:46:55   fired [TS]

00:46:56   oh I know Sandman mystery theater than [TS]

00:46:59   nineteen thirties Sandman by a guy davis [TS]

00:47:02   and Matt know the ponytail did the mage [TS]

00:47:08   the writer important the ponytail man [TS]

00:47:13   also did Grendel wrote you guys are [TS]

00:47:17   there be there shaking their heads of [TS]

00:47:18   many people who are listening to this he [TS]

00:47:20   did great back [TS]

00:47:22   ah his name is on the tip of my tongue [TS]

00:47:23   on that Murdock no that's not right now [TS]

00:47:25   it'll come to me it's like all right [TS]

00:47:28   he's blond created Grendel and mage and [TS]

00:47:30   now is writing Madame Xanadu or whatever [TS]

00:47:34   oh you see my friend Madame zat Arras [TS]

00:47:37   right to the guy yeah okay I know you're [TS]

00:47:40   talking about a mystery theater but that [TS]

00:47:42   is actually great because it's very [TS]

00:47:43   there isn't a superhero costumes it's [TS]

00:47:46   really about the relationship between [TS]

00:47:47   Wesley Dodds and Diane what's her name [TS]

00:47:50   and that relationship is so beautiful [TS]

00:47:53   and amazing and told so magical agner [TS]

00:47:57   matt wagner thank you you're welcome [TS]

00:47:59   google yeah but it's developed so [TS]

00:48:03   well and how she goes from this sort of [TS]

00:48:06   your girl he meets it was almost told [TS]

00:48:08   from her point of view a lot and then [TS]

00:48:10   how she becomes a full part of this [TS]

00:48:12   relationship in his Sandman and it's a [TS]

00:48:14   great series and I think would make a [TS]

00:48:17   good television show in a Louis and [TS]

00:48:19   Clark II kind of way but without without [TS]

00:48:22   teri hatcher yeah that's what I was [TS]

00:48:23   thinking you got ya see ya all right [TS]

00:48:26   Lisa any thoughts you know I'm actually [TS]

00:48:29   i would pitch Tim Hunter because it goes [TS]

00:48:31   back it goes back to the whole well it's [TS]

00:48:35   a couple hot points we talked about [TS]

00:48:36   which is what you're talking about [TS]

00:48:37   somebody who is struggling with the [TS]

00:48:38   slings and arrows of adolescence because [TS]

00:48:40   you know over the course of the over the [TS]

00:48:42   course of serious from this gawky 12 or [TS]

00:48:44   13 year old kid to being 17 or 18 years [TS]

00:48:46   old and he has to come into his powers [TS]

00:48:49   and he's got a messed-up family [TS]

00:48:49   situation has to try to unravel and [TS]

00:48:52   there's a woman here there's a girl [TS]

00:48:53   falls in love with who gets screwed over [TS]

00:48:54   by somebody who may or may not be Tim's [TS]

00:48:56   mother and it could also work as one of [TS]

00:48:59   those oh here's our caper of the week [TS]

00:49:01   where this week we're done with fairies [TS]

00:49:02   or this week we're dealing with somebody [TS]

00:49:04   who wants to do the targets of Beltane [TS]

00:49:06   in the public park or whatever and it [TS]

00:49:10   would work again because you have the [TS]

00:49:12   the overarching Who am I with her [TS]

00:49:14   whether Tim Hunter themes and you also [TS]

00:49:16   have the the the episodic here's how he [TS]

00:49:19   solves this problem magic and it could [TS]

00:49:22   be cheap because you wouldn't have to [TS]

00:49:23   rely on too many special effects because [TS]

00:49:26   that's the problem with a lot of [TS]

00:49:26   superhero ones is certainly true I i am [TS]

00:49:30   i'm drawing a blank here i actually had [TS]

00:49:32   a very clever and question I I I now I [TS]

00:49:34   got nothing I was so blown away by your [TS]

00:49:36   by your answers that I have completely [TS]

00:49:40   invincible that you go to answers and I [TS]

00:49:43   do love invincible but it's absolutely a [TS]

00:49:46   nightmare but they would be that's [TS]

00:49:47   thatthat's animated let's go with the [TS]

00:49:49   enemy yeah one of the yes it would be [TS]

00:49:51   beautiful animated series such gorgeous [TS]

00:49:54   start the effort anyway if you could get [TS]

00:49:56   that emotion wow so since I have [TS]

00:49:59   completely lost the train of thought [TS]

00:50:01   there i'm going to shift gears one last [TS]

00:50:03   time and and say Clancy Brown is the [TS]

00:50:06   ville termites oh my gosh [TS]

00:50:07   hey Lisa did you read those uh those [TS]

00:50:10   micronauts comic books i love you i did [TS]

00:50:12   i did read them what did you think [TS]

00:50:15   from from the perspective of somebody [TS]

00:50:16   you probably didn't read them in 1978 [TS]

00:50:19   you know I didn't but if you had handed [TS]

00:50:22   them to me and said guess what year they [TS]

00:50:23   were written in I could have um like oh [TS]

00:50:27   so this would be late seventies early [TS]

00:50:29   release just based on the art alone [TS]

00:50:31   which was a nice trip down memory lane [TS]

00:50:34   I get the feeling i had destroyed my [TS]

00:50:36   childhood know what I was gonna say is I [TS]

00:50:37   get that feeling i would have gotten a [TS]

00:50:38   little bit more out of them if I could [TS]

00:50:40   have cross-referenced them with the [TS]

00:50:41   actual toys because there's a lot of [TS]

00:50:42   technologies that came up and and and [TS]

00:50:44   and many other jobs as much as you think [TS]

00:50:46   it was in the terms of a TV or a toy by [TS]

00:50:50   in microns ended up being pretty far [TS]

00:50:52   away from the toys just because they [TS]

00:50:54   were it was pretty limited [TS]

00:50:56   that said there was some pretty there [TS]

00:50:57   were there was something that i really [TS]

00:50:58   like such as the character who foresees [TS]

00:51:00   a human now he's a centaur then he's a [TS]

00:51:02   human again then he's a center when he [TS]

00:51:03   feels like it for prints are gone his [TS]

00:51:06   sentence at Baron cars has brought body [TS]

00:51:07   banks you see ya [TS]

00:51:09   the body begs her to a centaur because [TS]

00:51:11   the toy you could take the white horse [TS]

00:51:12   and that and the guy and you can take [TS]

00:51:14   the legs off the guy instead of the body [TS]

00:51:15   banks are really cool idea the idea that [TS]

00:51:17   you have this rich / class that [TS]

00:51:18   basically has has guaranteed themselves [TS]

00:51:20   immortality by taking surface and you [TS]

00:51:24   know borrowing their bacon over using [TS]

00:51:25   their body parts it's like that novel / [TS]

00:51:28   movie just commit never let me go where [TS]

00:51:30   Oh congratulations poor people your job [TS]

00:51:32   is to provide fodder for the decadent [TS]

00:51:34   rich [TS]

00:51:34   yeah that mean the mean old the [TS]

00:51:37   patrician lady yanking out a young young [TS]

00:51:40   body in the body banks and she picks [TS]

00:51:42   sadly she picks the name of the woman [TS]

00:51:44   who is the rebel leader [TS]

00:51:46   oh god yeah the toad or splitter with a [TS]

00:51:48   slug slug that's her name yes yes but it [TS]

00:51:51   was a bad one horrible coincidence there [TS]

00:51:53   one of things i love about that is that [TS]

00:51:54   what is that they set up this whole Star [TS]

00:51:56   Wars plot and then they immediately blow [TS]

00:51:58   you into earth so that because like the [TS]

00:52:00   Star Wars plotters part 1 part 2 is ok [TS]

00:52:02   but I love your time sequence or how to [TS]

00:52:04   make them tiny and we send into florida [TS]

00:52:06   and there's that there's the the moment [TS]

00:52:08   that really sets the stage about when [TS]

00:52:09   this is taking place is that they knock [TS]

00:52:10   out the power in daytona beach florida [TS]

00:52:12   and the guy random guy shouts I can't [TS]

00:52:16   watch donnie and marie yeah like wow [TS]

00:52:18   okay it is the seventies alright but [TS]

00:52:21   then it ends up with the NASA astronauts [TS]

00:52:23   and there's the crazy nasa astronaut who [TS]

00:52:25   part machine [TS]

00:52:26   I mean we got the Prometheus pit where [TS]

00:52:29   where he can fling things into alternate [TS]

00:52:31   universes and Aaron Carter comes out and [TS]

00:52:33   he's the size of a human and and this is [TS]

00:52:35   the direction of captain universe which [TS]

00:52:37   thrown in there means else's shoes and [TS]

00:52:39   it is insane let me let me pretend to be [TS]

00:52:42   the voice of the audience uh who those [TS]

00:52:45   listening may not have read the [TS]

00:52:48   Micronauts recently or just say [TS]

00:52:49   everything the is there any way I could [TS]

00:52:52   get this fabulous thing aside from ebay [TS]

00:52:56   well okay so the best places you could [TS]

00:52:58   get this uh there's there's great [TS]

00:53:00   adjacent there's the bill torrentget [TS]

00:53:01   torrent yeah if you want to pirate it's [TS]

00:53:04   not actually available for rights [TS]

00:53:05   reasons I don't think you could feel to [TS]

00:53:07   set and if you do look for the Maginot [TS]

00:53:08   special edition bittorrent I'll get you [TS]

00:53:10   the first 12 issues in their recolored [TS]

00:53:12   kind of very nice redone version the on [TS]

00:53:15   otherwise checker the checker publishing [TS]

00:53:17   never did a micro Nazi took a lot of [TS]

00:53:20   these yeah your property i think there's [TS]

00:53:22   no way I think there's no collection [TS]

00:53:24   beyond the the five special edition [TS]

00:53:26   issues because you could get on ebay [TS]

00:53:27   would you say the economic store for [TS]

00:53:29   cheap because the rights issues are so [TS]

00:53:30   muddled and nobody knows exactly who has [TS]

00:53:32   the rights to do watch that that's [TS]

00:53:33   probably means there's nobody to see you [TS]

00:53:36   if you bittorrent uh i would hate it i [TS]

00:53:39   would we are not lawyers we cannot give [TS]

00:53:41   legal yes I would hate to promote [TS]

00:53:43   bittorrent on this on this episode other [TS]

00:53:46   than to say that it is available and i'm [TS]

00:53:49   sure those issues are readily available [TS]

00:53:50   on bittorrent and it may or may not be [TS]

00:53:52   true that one of them one of the [TS]

00:53:54   Micronauts issues on bittorrent was [TS]

00:53:56   missing a page and that i scanned and [TS]

00:53:57   sent of the guy who was doing that [TS]

00:53:58   torrent probably not true [TS]

00:54:01   probably not true probably night he [TS]

00:54:02   probably didn't do that h8 of didn't you [TS]

00:54:05   try any of this at home [TS]

00:54:06   that's a great missing page which I had [TS]

00:54:09   because i have all those issues anyway [TS]

00:54:10   it is it is a I'll obviously it's hard [TS]

00:54:13   for me to to take my childhood out of [TS]

00:54:15   the equation but i love the idea of [TS]

00:54:17   saying your comic book writer and you've [TS]

00:54:19   got these toys and you get star wars is [TS]

00:54:20   really big and make something up and [TS]

00:54:24   where those first 12 issues that that [TS]

00:54:26   that that that they did a bill manlo who [TS]

00:54:29   had the crazy imagination and Michael [TS]

00:54:31   golden who is the artist on those first [TS]

00:54:33   12 issues it's just it's unlike [TS]

00:54:35   classroom much else that I've seen and [TS]

00:54:37   it's funny because it could have easily [TS]

00:54:38   just keep [TS]

00:54:39   tiling things on it got revolutions [TS]

00:54:41   going on they've got and as I said [TS]

00:54:43   they've got they've got you know that [TS]

00:54:45   resides the integrated it'sit's yeah oh [TS]

00:54:47   yeah oh yeah there's the battle have an [TS]

00:54:49   alibi don't have it off your and his kin [TS]

00:54:53   his brother who is the albino want to be [TS]

00:54:55   remembered it's nice to hear that the [TS]

00:54:56   child had keeping your living up to [TS]

00:54:59   expectations still because I did but [TS]

00:55:01   that childhood comic for me was the [TS]

00:55:03   x-men and when i go back and reread some [TS]

00:55:05   of those issues now I just I after [TS]

00:55:08   reading a few of my stock so i would [TS]

00:55:10   never go back and read in acts because [TS]

00:55:11   my memory of it is so much better than [TS]

00:55:13   the actual like x-men 1 99 when Rachel [TS]

00:55:16   became phoenix and i just love it and [TS]

00:55:19   now it doesn't have the same Wolverine [TS]

00:55:22   saying for the hundredth time I'm the [TS]

00:55:23   best there is at what I do and I wasn't [TS]

00:55:25   very nicely to me when I was a kid that [TS]

00:55:26   was like how I thought oh he's resigned [TS]

00:55:28   himself to his dark fate and right now [TS]

00:55:30   it's yeah having fun to read i think [TS]

00:55:32   that jason recently helped me find the [TS]

00:55:34   first comic book i remember buying which [TS]

00:55:37   was manual x manual number 5 193 la soon [TS]

00:55:42   where they often said I think they have [TS]

00:55:45   some that some of the fantastic four get [TS]

00:55:46   abducted by the boon and so the x-men [TS]

00:55:48   have to step in and help out Reed [TS]

00:55:50   Richards the biggest douche in that [TS]

00:55:52   episode VII and sweat and that's the [TS]

00:55:56   word I I don't like to eat a douche i [TS]

00:55:58   don't like to use that word but in this [TS]

00:56:00   case that I mean in the splash page at [TS]

00:56:02   least there with his with a pipe [TS]

00:56:05   oh yeah like that hot little serpent [TS]

00:56:07   search and see because he's ignored the [TS]

00:56:09   dinner she made and matt said well this [TS]

00:56:12   is interesting is I went back and I [TS]

00:56:14   reread it as an adult and I could [TS]

00:56:15   actually find that the the hooks in the [TS]

00:56:18   comic that that resonated with me as a [TS]

00:56:19   kid and honestly I think the reason it [TS]

00:56:21   got me hooked is because that's actually [TS]

00:56:22   a comic where storm and Kitty Pryde kick [TS]

00:56:25   a lot of ass is from from the page 3 on [TS]

00:56:28   and so you can kind of overlook the fact [TS]

00:56:31   that Cyclops is running around a cravat [TS]

00:56:33   and making that up yeah and at times and [TS]

00:56:38   there's and it's just a really it [TS]

00:56:41   frankly it's a stupid story but there [TS]

00:56:42   are parts of it were you know by my [TS]

00:56:44   fifth-grade imaginations like wow and [TS]

00:56:47   welcome back and reading it I could [TS]

00:56:48   figure out that that's what happened and [TS]

00:56:50   that's what matters of things about [TS]

00:56:51   those annuals back [TS]

00:56:52   from that period too is that you had a [TS]

00:56:54   self-contained story [TS]

00:56:56   yeah it was letter than your story [TS]

00:56:59   because days before pages right so you [TS]

00:57:01   could end up i think about backups in it [TS]

00:57:02   but yeah it was it was as they also the [TS]

00:57:04   president that the the Savior with his [TS]

00:57:07   love affair with the princess of the [TS]

00:57:08   Shiar Empire thing was interwoven [TS]

00:57:09   through it too right but it was you [TS]

00:57:11   could read it without and it was big and [TS]

00:57:13   it is meant to be kind of a widescreen [TS]

00:57:14   spectacle which I mean the 22 you [TS]

00:57:17   mentioned doctor who earlier it's like a [TS]

00:57:18   doctor who christmas special is right [TS]

00:57:20   the rules are not the same because it's [TS]

00:57:21   meant to be seen by a broader audience [TS]

00:57:23   the thing wrestling with with Colossus [TS]

00:57:26   at the end of it tonight all right it's [TS]

00:57:28   all in video and mud wrestling Colossus [TS]

00:57:30   another they wear on their arm wrestle [TS]

00:57:33   out and then Kitty Pryde comes out in a [TS]

00:57:35   bikini distracts Colossus and again in [TS]

00:57:37   fifth grade--well say that's interesting [TS]

00:57:39   yes why what'd ya mean a [TS]

00:57:41   fifteen-year-old can't ride in a bikini [TS]

00:57:43   yeah well it was the fact that she could [TS]

00:57:44   that the boys were interested in her it [TS]

00:57:46   was the hole right now she can kick butt [TS]

00:57:48   and boys liked her and that was kind of [TS]

00:57:49   a that was kind of a different message [TS]

00:57:51   than the one that a lot of girls receive [TS]

00:57:53   with the pop culture they get you know [TS]

00:57:54   when preadolescent period so that that's [TS]

00:57:56   right if the boy's reaction to Kitty [TS]

00:57:58   Pryde was a bit different [TS]

00:58:00   yeah they're women out there who are the [TS]

00:58:02   keys around me look at what was it was [TS]

00:58:04   gonna say wow she looks good in a bikini [TS]

00:58:06   and she kicks ass yeah right and she's [TS]

00:58:08   my age and she's mine temporary that was [TS]

00:58:11   right yeah well I mean this is why you [TS]

00:58:13   will you will find a lot of [TS]

00:58:14   30-somethings and 40-somethings who [TS]

00:58:16   really like kitty pryde is because she [TS]

00:58:18   was RP writer contemporary people [TS]

00:58:19   outside of joss whedon in michael bendis [TS]

00:58:22   although again well I mean that's one of [TS]

00:58:24   the reasons that I i love when I here [TS]

00:58:26   just wait and talk about katie price [TS]

00:58:27   because he and I have apparently had the [TS]

00:58:29   exact same experience with the x-men and [TS]

00:58:31   you know that's the other piece of the [TS]

00:58:33   buffy puzzle writing spider-man premise [TS]

00:58:35   with Kitty Pryde is the lead was sort of [TS]

00:58:38   and can I just say I loved it in the [TS]

00:58:39   ultimate spider-man universal spider-man [TS]

00:58:41   kitty pryde got together I want my [TS]

00:58:42   favorite things about advanced did it [TS]

00:58:44   yeah [TS]

00:58:45   kitty part of peters world in high [TS]

00:58:47   school writing was his connection to her [TS]

00:58:50   that it was like she was also Jewish and [TS]

00:58:53   that was that [TS]

00:58:54   I'm going to hurt Brian Brian Brian [TS]

00:58:56   Michael Bendis talk about that she's [TS]

00:58:58   like get a crush on her but it's also [TS]

00:58:59   partly because she was Jewish like a [TS]

00:59:01   Jewish kid no hi or so when she was and [TS]

00:59:03   she was from Susan [TS]

00:59:04   should get a Midwest yeah i'll go [TS]

00:59:06   because she went back to Chicago and [TS]

00:59:07   the-the-the normal yeah actually that's [TS]

00:59:09   what I miss about comics from now from [TS]

00:59:11   like the eighties is like we know Katie [TS]

00:59:13   Price hometown with Chicago and I any of [TS]

00:59:15   the modern characters you have there [TS]

00:59:17   isn't that sort of level of you [TS]

00:59:19   completeness about them [TS]

00:59:21   maybe maybe it's there and we just don't [TS]

00:59:22   know it I don't know [TS]

00:59:24   no it's not there now but that's that's [TS]

00:59:26   the example I mean Ben's doing that with [TS]

00:59:28   the ultimate spider-man it's one of [TS]

00:59:29   these actually very TV like to bring us [TS]

00:59:31   back all the way around creation of an [TS]

00:59:33   ensemble cast that you you would expect [TS]

00:59:36   in a comic book like that and yet you [TS]

00:59:39   know ultimate spider-man is really kind [TS]

00:59:40   of an ensemble series now where it's it [TS]

00:59:44   big beefy he could he would rename it [TS]

00:59:46   Aunt May's house of wayward superheroes [TS]

00:59:49   because that is what that comic is not [TS]

00:59:50   sure there is TV adaptation there's [TS]

00:59:52   usually right yeah right yeah I don't [TS]

00:59:55   mind that you know nice man is here now [TS]

00:59:57   great whenever it's like it's like that [TS]

00:59:59   old spider-man [TS]

00:59:59   old spider-man [TS]

01:00:00   this amazing friend or two and where [TS]

01:00:01   they have them statute that you could [TS]

01:00:02   turn and they have to swing in teenagers [TS]

01:00:04   the better show yeah all that all right [TS]

01:00:08   well I think we've run out of of time [TS]

01:00:10   and yes don't use bittorrent kids unless [TS]

01:00:13   you want to download the Micronauts [TS]

01:00:15   anyway until next time i'm jason l and I [TS]

01:00:20   i will be next time to actually and I'd [TS]

01:00:23   like to thank my guess [TS]

01:00:25   jason reitman thank you thanks for [TS]

01:00:27   coming over and Lisa Schmeisser thank [TS]

01:00:29   you very well try to have you a few more [TS]

01:00:30   times before you have to be tried banks [TS]

01:00:33   um well I actually kind of fun if I if I [TS]

01:00:35   login i'll sleep deprived and and and oh [TS]

01:00:38   yeah my head with hot guys with the baby [TS]

01:00:40   asleep until it until enjoy a site where [TS]

01:00:44   they babies are predictable that way [TS]

01:00:46   oh yeah oh yeah you you know you can [TS]

01:00:48   look at a baby and say oh yeah she'll be [TS]

01:00:49   down for that now [TS]

01:00:51   now if I understand the whiskey works [TS]

01:00:54   parenting tips not serious okay too many [TS]

01:01:00   such misers parenting tips podcast it [TS]

01:01:03   will be a short broadcast in any [TS]

01:01:05   authority until next time we faithfully [TS]

01:01:09   [Music] [TS]

01:01:16   hello ladies look at your podcast then [TS]

01:01:19   look at the uncomfortable podcast then [TS]

01:01:20   back at your parkas then back to the [TS]

01:01:22   uncomfortable podcast sadly your podcast [TS]

01:01:24   is not being comfortable podcast but if [TS]

01:01:26   you visit the in topical com [TS]

01:01:32   [Music] [TS]