The Incomparable

2: A Feeling of Vertigo


00:00:00   interoperable Titus number two [TS]

00:00:04   august 2010 [TS]

00:00:11   so one of the premises of doing comics [TS]

00:00:16   on this podcast is not to talk about the [TS]

00:00:20   minutiae of the continuity happening [TS]

00:00:23   with single issues being released this [TS]

00:00:25   week in the comic book stores and to [TS]

00:00:28   have to take it back level talk about [TS]

00:00:30   things on the level of stuff that's [TS]

00:00:31   largely available and trade paperback or [TS]

00:00:33   hardcover so you can get in your comic [TS]

00:00:35   store or your local bookstore or on [TS]

00:00:37   amazon or a readers as you to both have [TS]

00:00:39   done yes we have iPads here right with [TS]

00:00:41   our topic here so one of us did it [TS]

00:00:43   legally and the what other one [TS]

00:00:45   maybe not as much right yeah it's a [TS]

00:00:46   shame well i think that that you stole [TS]

00:00:48   that book [TS]

00:00:49   Lisa anyone happy i'm jason l and i am [TS]

00:00:53   here with just to make it extra [TS]

00:00:54   confusing jason reitman hello and Lisa [TS]

00:00:57   Schmeisser hi there and we're here to [TS]

00:00:59   talk comics it's funny that I'm in the [TS]

00:01:01   room with people who probably do visit [TS]

00:01:04   comic stores regularly i am a fraud and [TS]

00:01:07   and do not i am a trade paperback kind [TS]

00:01:10   of person or a digital download kind of [TS]

00:01:12   person but i like the idea of doing a [TS]

00:01:14   comic book club and and picking comic [TS]

00:01:17   that is available readily in bookstores [TS]

00:01:19   and then talking about animal i'm sure [TS]

00:01:21   go off on some tangent our topic this [TS]

00:01:24   week is the unwritten which is from [TS]

00:01:25   vertigo by mike perry and peanut grown i [TS]

00:01:28   carry and Peter grass [TS]

00:01:30   mhm this was lisa selection in the comic [TS]

00:01:32   book club i believe yes very good [TS]

00:01:34   selection [TS]

00:01:34   thank you Mike carries name sounds [TS]

00:01:36   vaguely familiar but I know nothing [TS]

00:01:38   about this comic and went into it with [TS]

00:01:40   no expectations whatsoever beyond the [TS]

00:01:42   sort of one sentence line that you used [TS]

00:01:45   to describe it [TS]

00:01:46   lisa said you want to explain to people [TS]

00:01:48   what what this story is about sure i'll [TS]

00:01:50   start with my kerry and Peter groans [TS]

00:01:52   both of whom have been in the vertigo [TS]

00:01:53   stable for quite a while they worked [TS]

00:01:55   together previously on Lucifer series of [TS]

00:01:57   comic books [TS]

00:01:58   Lucifer series was a spinoff from the [TS]

00:02:01   Sandman books so these guys have the [TS]

00:02:03   lineage that goes back to like the [TS]

00:02:05   nineties to be getting vertigo [TS]

00:02:06   yeah exactly so and vertigo is ready [TS]

00:02:09   Amir and yeah [TS]

00:02:10   and is that a creator-owned or is that a [TS]

00:02:13   that's DC own which is why the Sandman [TS]

00:02:16   was in there buddy it's it's so it's [TS]

00:02:18   their adult line is that the best way to [TS]

00:02:20   describe it over there almost every [TS]

00:02:21   trader fiction they're not in tights and [TS]

00:02:23   flights line for lack of a better word [TS]

00:02:25   their stories tend to focus on the [TS]

00:02:27   supernatural or on Norrish elements or [TS]

00:02:30   on narratives that are not necessarily [TS]

00:02:32   something and find in mainstream [TS]

00:02:34   publishers like DC Marvel image to get [TS]

00:02:37   examples of their current line the book [TS]

00:02:39   Northlanders the author of whom eludes [TS]

00:02:41   me but is basically writing stories [TS]

00:02:43   about Vikings and another is you guys an [TS]

00:02:46   alternate universe somewhere Viking [TS]

00:02:47   comments like a mainstream and [TS]

00:02:49   superheroes are like insanely readers [TS]

00:02:51   can watch me that will come up higher [TS]

00:02:54   and water rights but you know that [TS]

00:02:55   there's get by kings are big there yeah [TS]

00:02:57   and for is the only crossover hero there [TS]

00:02:59   yeah but another one of Vertigo's the [TS]

00:03:01   more critically beloved at the moment [TS]

00:03:02   scalped which is a book about Native [TS]

00:03:04   American FBI agent who has to go work [TS]

00:03:07   undercover on the deeply corrupt [TS]

00:03:08   reservation on which he was raised [TS]

00:03:10   so again on titan on flight for a while [TS]

00:03:13   they were really into face supernatural [TS]

00:03:15   stuff and they've moved away from that [TS]

00:03:16   thank God but the unwritten actions [TS]

00:03:20   right back into it more or less because [TS]

00:03:21   the entire book is about the power of [TS]

00:03:24   stories to shape people's perceptions of [TS]

00:03:27   reality or even to create reality [TS]

00:03:30   depending on who has power over the [TS]

00:03:32   story and what kind of authority the [TS]

00:03:33   audience gives them that was I thought [TS]

00:03:35   the theme of this whole first book [TS]

00:03:36   pointing out that Tommy Taylor that you [TS]

00:03:38   know hate stories can be truth truth can [TS]

00:03:39   be sorry so the concept here is that [TS]

00:03:41   this is guy named Tommy Taylor Thomas [TS]

00:03:43   Taylor and his father was a novelist and [TS]

00:03:47   he wrote a series of books that are [TS]

00:03:48   suspiciously similar to harry potter [TS]

00:03:51   books they are impacting to the point [TS]

00:03:53   where it's actually hilarious because [TS]

00:03:54   they're there's instead of having a [TS]

00:03:56   lightning scar on his forehead he's got [TS]

00:03:57   a tattoo on the back of his hand the [TS]

00:03:59   writing style is uncannily rolling like [TS]

00:04:01   with the adverbial explosions right and [TS]

00:04:04   harry potter was actually sort of [TS]

00:04:06   similar to the books of magic [TS]

00:04:09   Tim Hunter would you also a vertigo [TS]

00:04:11   title interested in your gross worked on [TS]

00:04:14   the Tim Hunter books of magic all the [TS]

00:04:15   way through the run of the series so [TS]

00:04:17   it's all kind of come back around yeah [TS]

00:04:18   there's a lot of self-referential things [TS]

00:04:20   how many even mentioned the the books of [TS]

00:04:22   magic in the first issue of the [TS]

00:04:24   unwritten [TS]

00:04:24   when they're talking about harry potter [TS]

00:04:25   and the similarities of all three of [TS]

00:04:27   them i'm amused by the fact that it's [TS]

00:04:29   it's tommy taylor and his two sidekicks [TS]

00:04:31   said the girl and the boy and it's it's [TS]

00:04:32   a very round remaining kind of thing and [TS]

00:04:35   then one of the issues opens amusingly [TS]

00:04:37   there's a writer's retreat at the house [TS]

00:04:39   where it's not really a fan and and one [TS]

00:04:42   of the writers has written this [TS]

00:04:44   fanfiction we're essentially all these [TS]

00:04:46   lovable kid characters disemboweled and [TS]

00:04:49   and so at you you think you're watching [TS]

00:04:51   another example from the book including [TS]

00:04:53   the pros passages and everything in it [TS]

00:04:54   and it turns out that it's this horrible [TS]

00:04:56   kind of what if we killed them all kind [TS]

00:04:59   of thing which which place with yet [TS]

00:05:00   another theme of this comic which is [TS]

00:05:02   it's all about creation and and [TS]

00:05:04   creativity and creation of fictional [TS]

00:05:06   ideas and how in the in the premise of [TS]

00:05:09   the comic they clash with reality [TS]

00:05:11   because this is Tom Taylor isn't Tommy [TS]

00:05:13   Taylor but everybody assumes he is and [TS]

00:05:15   then there's this spin on it which is [TS]

00:05:16   that you start to wonder if perhaps he [TS]

00:05:19   is and that this might have been based [TS]

00:05:21   or unreality or the book created the [TS]

00:05:23   reality more created him or it's [TS]

00:05:26   fascinating and with the only the first [TS]

00:05:28   trade which is five issues there's no [TS]

00:05:31   answer and if you'd read the second [TS]

00:05:32   trailer I guess you've got an answer but [TS]

00:05:34   I haven't the second trade can not only [TS]

00:05:35   this wednesday so our time we should [TS]

00:05:38   vary time yeah not available digitally [TS]

00:05:39   yes you're downloading something that's [TS]

00:05:42   pirated because it's almost like a [TS]

00:05:43   detective story in that you have the [TS]

00:05:45   first four episodes which introduced you [TS]

00:05:47   to Tommy and the dilemma and the themes [TS]

00:05:50   that will reverberate throughout the [TS]

00:05:51   entire series and then you've got the [TS]

00:05:53   story of record kipling and his [TS]

00:05:55   encounter with the same people and how [TS]

00:05:57   it turned out for him in that last one [TS]

00:05:58   with Kipling it kind of restated the [TS]

00:06:00   themes but not much more obvious in case [TS]

00:06:03   you didn't get it from the first four [TS]

00:06:04   issues [TS]

00:06:04   here's what we're really talking about [TS]

00:06:05   it was like a fill-in issue because it's [TS]

00:06:08   a standalone thing but yet it was also [TS]

00:06:09   that lets minded back now that you've [TS]

00:06:11   been dropped in the middle of the story [TS]

00:06:13   and wanted back and show you that this [TS]

00:06:14   has been going on for some time because [TS]

00:06:16   even read kipling and Mark Twain once [TS]

00:06:18   wrote by these demonic evil strange [TS]

00:06:20   people who get it from this power felt [TS]

00:06:23   very classic vertigo in that way and [TS]

00:06:26   very much to like those earlier stories [TS]

00:06:28   in The Sandman and things where every [TS]

00:06:29   now and then there would be an issue or [TS]

00:06:31   a chapter that sort of stepped back from [TS]

00:06:33   the ongoing narrative [TS]

00:06:35   kind of reiterate themes of the [TS]

00:06:37   narrative because they worked with [TS]

00:06:38   Shakespeare into the original Sandman [TS]

00:06:39   series as one of the fictional people [TS]

00:06:41   what I was going to say is one of the [TS]

00:06:44   things I found interesting was how you [TS]

00:06:45   had the British writer who made his deal [TS]

00:06:47   with the devil is that were and the [TS]

00:06:49   American writer who saw right through it [TS]

00:06:50   shortly before the sinister overload [TS]

00:06:52   stable you know America's what's going [TS]

00:06:54   on and I was actually wondering if this [TS]

00:06:56   was kind of these American writers way [TS]

00:06:58   of thumbing their nose at vertigo or [TS]

00:07:00   thumbing their nose that their forebears [TS]

00:07:01   because vertigo had that long tradition [TS]

00:07:03   of they've got a lot of British writers [TS]

00:07:05   in their stable and these British [TS]

00:07:06   writers have been great about plundering [TS]

00:07:08   classic literature classic comics and [TS]

00:07:11   these are American writers saying you [TS]

00:07:12   know what we can do the same thing but [TS]

00:07:13   we're gonna do it on our terms and we [TS]

00:07:14   would like to take you along for the [TS]

00:07:16   ride and see how it turns out my carries [TS]

00:07:17   American it was I just assumed he was [TS]

00:07:20   british she's working for vertigo now [TS]

00:07:22   actually i just read his bio this [TS]

00:07:23   morning and I believe he and Peter [TS]

00:07:25   grocer both American one of them was [TS]

00:07:27   from response and I think so [TS]

00:07:30   which is never know game in this now [TS]

00:07:32   though you didn't Minnesota high kick [TS]

00:07:34   some horrible and Midwestern a British [TS]

00:07:38   pipeline back and forth where they just [TS]

00:07:40   keep importing this right Ellen full but [TS]

00:07:42   i think i've had made notes early on in [TS]

00:07:44   the series how my carrier was born in [TS]

00:07:46   Liverpool England there goes my re or [TS]

00:07:50   just read exercises vertical lives in [TS]

00:07:52   London yeah is all about those on there [TS]

00:07:54   goes my theory because I honestly [TS]

00:07:55   thought they're making a statement about [TS]

00:07:57   the way Americans tend to see their [TS]

00:07:59   stories as opposed to the British [TS]

00:08:00   tradition of of storytelling legend [TS]

00:08:03   where when you think about the British [TS]

00:08:04   have this tradition of King Arthur that [TS]

00:08:06   goes back thousands of years and has [TS]

00:08:08   been polished and and modified through [TS]

00:08:10   different historic cycles it certainly [TS]

00:08:12   is fascinating because this story set in [TS]

00:08:13   London initially and then and then we [TS]

00:08:15   moved to the mainland Europe bi and the [TS]

00:08:19   characters are and references are [TS]

00:08:20   largely for british authors and then so [TS]

00:08:22   in this fifth issue the the last part of [TS]

00:08:25   the trade paperback vol.1 when Mark [TS]

00:08:28   Twain appears and there's this you know [TS]

00:08:30   seen in the US where Kipling comes to [TS]

00:08:32   meet Mark Twain it is kind of in an [TS]

00:08:34   interesting question of what it what are [TS]

00:08:37   you trying to say here and because he [TS]

00:08:38   did sort of see through it and was able [TS]

00:08:40   to create this work and so one of the [TS]

00:08:42   questions in this series is [TS]

00:08:44   it is the series saying that creativity [TS]

00:08:46   is essentially a magical power that is [TS]

00:08:49   enabled by this in in the series case [TS]

00:08:52   this this source or is it not [TS]

00:08:54   and is it is it subvert it in some way [TS]

00:08:57   but it does exist otherwise because Mark [TS]

00:08:59   Twain and told them to to hit the bricks [TS]

00:09:02   yeah and Mark Twain is Mark Twain right [TS]

00:09:05   well i don't think your theory is [TS]

00:09:06   actually wrong even though it's actually [TS]

00:09:10   just maybe we just move my carrier rise [TS]

00:09:12   to see but it actually was nothing more [TS]

00:09:14   to a sort of classic British perception [TS]

00:09:17   of not just American writers but the [TS]

00:09:19   American person you know sort of that [TS]

00:09:21   like wisdom in the simple people [TS]

00:09:23   approaching well of course mark twain [TS]

00:09:25   wouldn't fall for this because he's so [TS]

00:09:26   of the earth and folksy that he would [TS]

00:09:29   see right through all of this [TS]

00:09:30   manipulation and of the shadowy [TS]

00:09:32   organization and where the Brits of [TS]

00:09:35   course would fall right into it because [TS]

00:09:36   they're all about there might also be [TS]

00:09:38   some this might also be above the theme [TS]

00:09:40   that later ties into the whole [TS]

00:09:42   fictitious geography because at the end [TS]

00:09:45   of the trade they they do have an [TS]

00:09:46   excerpt from Wilson Taylor's map where [TS]

00:09:48   he puts in pins right so Tommy Tommy's [TS]

00:09:50   father the one thing that Tommy ever [TS]

00:09:52   really did the bond with his father the [TS]

00:09:54   writer was that his father taught him [TS]

00:09:56   the geographic locations where things [TS]

00:09:59   that were fictional happened yes and [TS]

00:10:02   which seemed to be important not [TS]

00:10:03   important at the time but seems to be [TS]

00:10:05   very important to becoming more [TS]

00:10:06   important now especially since it when [TS]

00:10:08   he breaks into the safe it's remember [TS]

00:10:09   what I taught you [TS]

00:10:10   right right so so so it's very much this [TS]

00:10:13   question of like what it what is how [TS]

00:10:15   does fiction and meet reality and does [TS]

00:10:17   it does it is there a sense of place [TS]

00:10:19   rightly yeah and it's actually one of [TS]

00:10:22   the parts of the book i liked the most [TS]

00:10:24   as I've always been somewhat interested [TS]

00:10:26   in where fictional things happen in real [TS]

00:10:29   life in growing up in New England and [TS]

00:10:31   going to the Hawthorne is House of the [TS]

00:10:34   Seven Gables and in New York City always [TS]

00:10:37   be in some random bar and be a little [TS]

00:10:38   plaque that the gift of the magi was [TS]

00:10:41   written here [TS]

00:10:41   yeah I always wanted to go down to [TS]

00:10:43   Greenwich Village and see where dr. [TS]

00:10:44   Strange's house isn't right [TS]

00:10:46   yeah because it's a real address and [TS]

00:10:48   there's nothing there and of course [TS]

00:10:49   that's part of the joke is that people [TS]

00:10:50   who don't know him he's hidden his [TS]

00:10:53   sanctum sanctorum behind 7-eleven or [TS]

00:10:56   whatever [TS]

00:10:57   is that right there it in the the soil [TS]

00:10:59   literary gps so I think they really [TS]

00:11:02   haven't but it is also interesting in [TS]

00:11:04   that the book is talking about where [TS]

00:11:06   fiction and reality meet and these [TS]

00:11:09   locations are at last sort of physical [TS]

00:11:12   place of where these things eat this is [TS]

00:11:14   real and the unreal so who is this guy [TS]

00:11:16   who is this antagonist this bearded guy [TS]

00:11:18   with a scythe who kills everybody [TS]

00:11:21   sorry to spoil alert because everybody [TS]

00:11:24   and everybody in this house except for [TS]

00:11:26   Tommy Taylor you know do what we know [TS]

00:11:28   about this guy is he he's a [TS]

00:11:30   representative of some force that has [TS]

00:11:32   been around and that is steering writers [TS]

00:11:34   to write about certain families why he [TS]

00:11:36   killed Kipling's daughter spoiler rayon [TS]

00:11:39   we also know that he lost his hand [TS]

00:11:41   courtesy of wilson because they [TS]

00:11:42   mentioned that let's take his other hand [TS]

00:11:44   yeah they mentioned that in the book and [TS]

00:11:46   the hand is imbued with some sort of [TS]

00:11:48   magical power because when Tommy goes to [TS]

00:11:50   visit Wilson's former mistress after she [TS]

00:11:53   delivers the message that this literary [TS]

00:11:55   cabal tells her to it turns out that she [TS]

00:11:58   also tried to slip in a little something [TS]

00:11:59   for Tommy and he threatened her with the [TS]

00:12:01   hands you've seen this hand you know [TS]

00:12:03   what it can do [TS]

00:12:03   right right and he does suggest at one [TS]

00:12:05   point that he's the devil although it [TS]

00:12:07   was actually discussed this with that [TS]

00:12:08   line [TS]

00:12:09   great I'm Lucifer the bringer of light [TS]

00:12:11   says the siam whose lighting his [TS]

00:12:12   cigarette and he says you might have [TS]

00:12:13   been off by a few feet on that one right [TS]

00:12:15   also interesting in the metal thing from [TS]

00:12:18   the fact that might carry the most [TS]

00:12:20   popular vertigo book was Lucifer the [TS]

00:12:22   Lightbringer yes [TS]

00:12:23   see I all of these references completely [TS]

00:12:26   lost on me did this is why I rely on you [TS]

00:12:28   guys but there's also there's so much [TS]

00:12:30   about this book that is I don't know [TS]

00:12:32   self-referential the right term it's not [TS]

00:12:34   a really rich family background is the [TS]

00:12:36   way I thought of it where I just you can [TS]

00:12:38   really tell that its forebears are in [TS]

00:12:40   Tim Hunter because I got to be honest I [TS]

00:12:42   was thinking of Tim Hunter a lot more [TS]

00:12:43   reading this book especially through the [TS]

00:12:45   London sequences and that 200 is Tim [TS]

00:12:48   Hunter is a boy wizard [TS]

00:12:50   oh this is in his various harry potter [TS]

00:12:52   before harry potter was around yeah and [TS]

00:12:54   that was part of another it's another [TS]

00:12:56   version another version ok and the way [TS]

00:12:58   he was originally introduced neil gaiman [TS]

00:13:00   wrote the original I think four-part [TS]

00:13:02   miniseries with him right with a [TS]

00:13:03   different artist was a painting prestige [TS]

00:13:05   thing is beautiful one of my first I and [TS]

00:13:07   looks like that i read and really got [TS]

00:13:09   into [TS]

00:13:09   and over the course of that book tim [TS]

00:13:11   runs into John Constantine and I think [TS]

00:13:14   dr. strange at one point [TS]

00:13:16   What's Wrong universal on you Adam [TS]

00:13:18   street and you know he wasn't ready to [TS]

00:13:19   all the DC mystical characters it was a [TS]

00:13:21   swamp thing you know that something [TS]

00:13:23   wasn't it was a mr. e Phantom Stranger [TS]

00:13:26   very classic 16 so DC literally i will [TS]

00:13:31   call it John Constantine the hellblazer [TS]

00:13:33   and this was just before the vertical [TS]

00:13:35   launch or maybe soon before the vertical [TS]

00:13:37   launch we're talking like 1991 so it's [TS]

00:13:39   sort of the equivalent of what would [TS]

00:13:41   have been vertigo if it had been [TS]

00:13:42   invented yet [TS]

00:13:43   yeah alright the same way that Eleanor [TS]

00:13:45   swamp thing is widely considered to be [TS]

00:13:46   vertical before alright was invented yet [TS]

00:13:48   that's a good rule of thumb and then [TS]

00:13:49   what they did with Tim Hunter is they [TS]

00:13:51   did books of magic which was 75 issue [TS]

00:13:55   serious which actually have the flimsies [TS]

00:13:57   and then after that they did names of [TS]

00:13:59   magic which was a 25 issue series [TS]

00:14:01   because people were not buying it but [TS]

00:14:04   one of the themes and names of magic [TS]

00:14:06   comes down to the power of words to set [TS]

00:14:09   the foundation for reality and one of [TS]

00:14:12   the villainous forces they have to [TS]

00:14:13   defeat is this this want to converse [TS]

00:14:16   creature that brings out of the book and [TS]

00:14:17   the only way it is stated and ultimately [TS]

00:14:19   defeated is when somebody says the right [TS]

00:14:21   word [TS]

00:14:22   so so Tim Hunter has always been a [TS]

00:14:24   little bit about that what is real what [TS]

00:14:25   is not real [TS]

00:14:26   what words have the power to shape not [TS]

00:14:28   to shape and these guys work on Tim [TS]

00:14:30   Hunter and they went to Lucifer which [TS]

00:14:31   also this really heavy metal article [TS]

00:14:33   background what you just said about the [TS]

00:14:34   writing this stuff is what's shaping [TS]

00:14:36   reality in the fourth issue that's [TS]

00:14:38   exactly what happened when you had that [TS]

00:14:40   bad literary gathering of more writers [TS]

00:14:43   yeah you know in the the house that [TS]

00:14:45   Frankenstein was written in discussing [TS]

00:14:47   horror and then the book becomes a [TS]

00:14:49   horror genre command yeah dad Joshua or [TS]

00:14:53   oh yeah kill our one-at-a-time a dark [TS]

00:14:56   house in the middle of a storm yeah and [TS]

00:14:57   that reminded me of the movie adaptation [TS]

00:15:00   yeah which had that same sort of the [TS]

00:15:02   movie is talking about we don't want to [TS]

00:15:04   become this thing that's going to be all [TS]

00:15:05   shoot-'em-up are chasing and then the [TS]

00:15:08   movie becomes yes [TS]

00:15:09   not that it's not my favorite movie [TS]

00:15:11   I I actually think it's it i think the [TS]

00:15:13   clever thing was that that was what they [TS]

00:15:14   were trying to do and in the end they [TS]

00:15:15   succeeded in making a bad movie about [TS]

00:15:17   making a bad movie right because it [TS]

00:15:19   wasn't it didn't seem ironic enough it [TS]

00:15:21   just seemed bad i like it on a metal of [TS]

00:15:24   but I like well that and that's one of [TS]

00:15:26   the things that really struck me about [TS]

00:15:27   the unwritten is it for me it was [TS]

00:15:28   actually very hard to get into the story [TS]

00:15:31   of the actual events of the unwritten [TS]

00:15:33   because i was so pulled out and viewing [TS]

00:15:36   it on that metal level of this is a [TS]

00:15:38   story about telling stories and about [TS]

00:15:41   the effect of storytelling i love that [TS]

00:15:43   stuff that is some of my favorite kind [TS]

00:15:45   of work in general i love love analyzing [TS]

00:15:48   works of fiction and discovering that [TS]

00:15:50   they're talking about themselves that [TS]

00:15:51   this is my topic for another podcast but [TS]

00:15:54   my favorite thing about the finale of [TS]

00:15:57   lost [TS]

00:15:58   no spoilers here other than to say that [TS]

00:15:59   I felt like it was I liked it many [TS]

00:16:02   people hated it [TS]

00:16:03   that's one of things I like best about [TS]

00:16:04   it was I felt like it was actually [TS]

00:16:05   talking about itself was talking about [TS]

00:16:07   what happens when you're at the end of a [TS]

00:16:09   story and the last episode of a TV show [TS]

00:16:11   and you want to say goodbye to everybody [TS]

00:16:13   because you know you're not going to see [TS]

00:16:14   them ever again and that it was very [TS]

00:16:16   self-aware and I know that doesn't work [TS]

00:16:18   for some people but I i got that same [TS]

00:16:19   kind of vibe from the unwritten that [TS]

00:16:21   without to the point where i was almost [TS]

00:16:22   lost on some of those people are getting [TS]

00:16:24   murdered in the house where where Mary [TS]

00:16:26   Shelley read frankenstein because i was [TS]

00:16:28   kinda more engaged in in the mystery of [TS]

00:16:31   this intertextual ality of like is it [TS]

00:16:33   real and how does it affect it and what [TS]

00:16:35   does it all mean and and I you know I [TS]

00:16:37   don't know if that that happen for you [TS]

00:16:38   guys but I didn't I was I was more [TS]

00:16:40   focused on that I was on the fact that [TS]

00:16:41   their characters and who are they and [TS]

00:16:43   that they're being murdered horribly [TS]

00:16:44   because they're just fictional [TS]

00:16:45   characters and then boom which of course [TS]

00:16:47   they all are right and that's the the [TS]

00:16:49   interesting thing in that I sort of look [TS]

00:16:52   at that the whole slasher part is sort [TS]

00:16:54   of a backdrop like uslike against the [TS]

00:16:55   bigger issues after the fact that [TS]

00:16:57   establishes the villain right now he's [TS]

00:16:59   actually really bad [TS]

00:17:00   I'm engines also really cathartic for [TS]

00:17:02   people who really hates genre [TS]

00:17:03   classification because they make a point [TS]

00:17:06   in earlier issue of having his people [TS]

00:17:08   identified by the genres that they write [TS]

00:17:10   and there's that one really annoying [TS]

00:17:11   person who's got oh I read a sexy [TS]

00:17:12   vampire detective and another guy's like [TS]

00:17:15   'oh i take care of HP Lovecraft and one [TS]

00:17:17   guys like I do torture porn and they had [TS]

00:17:20   unabashedly embraced their market niches [TS]

00:17:24   that [TS]

00:17:24   her and then all of them just get killed [TS]

00:17:26   brutally right and I wonder if it comes [TS]

00:17:29   down to the creator's saying something [TS]

00:17:32   along the lines of look you know the [TS]

00:17:33   genre can make you but it can also kill [TS]

00:17:35   you or look we don't think that John was [TS]

00:17:36   a good idea this is so cathartic being [TS]

00:17:38   able to kill them and I think there's [TS]

00:17:40   something there about following your [TS]

00:17:42   creative Muse vs selling out [TS]

00:17:44   that's part of the story because in many [TS]

00:17:46   ways you could view those people as [TS]

00:17:47   being sell out there they're writing for [TS]

00:17:50   an audience in a market and they become [TS]

00:17:52   successful at it and then if you flip to [TS]

00:17:55   the the last chapter 15 issue with [TS]

00:17:58   kipling and Twain I mean that's [TS]

00:18:00   basically what the story is there is the [TS]

00:18:03   Kipling sort of sold-out and it made him [TS]

00:18:05   famous by selling out so it's like are [TS]

00:18:07   you [TS]

00:18:08   is it like a deal with the devil where [TS]

00:18:09   you become famous because you sold out [TS]

00:18:11   or is that just unusual cost effect the [TS]

00:18:14   sellouts the ones who become famous [TS]

00:18:15   because that's why they become famous as [TS]

00:18:17   they've sold out and Twain is not a [TS]

00:18:19   sellout and just sent them away that [TS]

00:18:21   it's it's really interesting it's like [TS]

00:18:22   that two levels are these writers [TS]

00:18:23   selling out and is that what this is [TS]

00:18:25   about is not being true to yourself are [TS]

00:18:27   all the right ourselves and how does the [TS]

00:18:28   wild fit into that because we're the [TS]

00:18:31   mysterious character whose name is [TS]

00:18:32   escaping me at the moment the blond guy [TS]

00:18:34   with the beard [TS]

00:18:35   hi when Kipling is worried about Wilder [TS]

00:18:38   that's wild that's why i asked a wild [TS]

00:18:41   and he says while doesn't actually have [TS]

00:18:43   you know staying power it's a piece of [TS]

00:18:45   the moment but my friends and I we don't [TS]

00:18:48   like him at all right which is [TS]

00:18:50   interesting because what is that what [TS]

00:18:51   does he want his trigger is true to [TS]

00:18:53   himself or he's true to himself and [TS]

00:18:54   writing things that they specifically [TS]

00:18:56   don't want cause Kipling says point2 [TS]

00:18:58   wild was that he was granted a lot of [TS]

00:19:01   his lines are very facile and flip but [TS]

00:19:03   his whole body of work is devoted to [TS]

00:19:05   pointing out hypocrisy and and telling [TS]

00:19:08   people that they need to learn to see [TS]

00:19:09   things as they truly are not as the [TS]

00:19:11   polite social delusions that are easier [TS]

00:19:13   for everybody else to swallow and there [TS]

00:19:15   is definitely a sense of this in a story [TS]

00:19:17   that this isn't just about you know [TS]

00:19:18   getting writers on the payroll it's [TS]

00:19:20   about steering but the reality or [TS]

00:19:23   theories reception of the time yeah in a [TS]

00:19:25   certain direction whatever that [TS]

00:19:26   direction might be that's interesting so [TS]

00:19:28   the idea of stories set the culture is [TS]

00:19:32   very interesting and very true if you [TS]

00:19:35   look at all the early science fiction [TS]

00:19:37   work in jewels for [TS]

00:19:38   turned in all these that the writers [TS]

00:19:41   envisioned all these things before the [TS]

00:19:42   scientists when I can make that [TS]

00:19:45   yeah wired once did this futures issue [TS]

00:19:47   is back in 1995 the reason I remember [TS]

00:19:50   this is because i actually ended up [TS]

00:19:51   writing a paper on in grad school where [TS]

00:19:53   they were interviewing futurologists or [TS]

00:19:56   whatever and the one thing that came out [TS]

00:19:58   of all the interviews was if you want to [TS]

00:19:59   find out where technology is going to be [TS]

00:20:01   in 25 years [TS]

00:20:02   read the science fiction it's happening [TS]

00:20:03   now because the kids who grew up reading [TS]

00:20:06   this stuff are then going to take into [TS]

00:20:07   their working lives right that's the [TS]

00:20:09   story about the motorola startac phone [TS]

00:20:11   which is not only named specifically to [TS]

00:20:13   reference star track but was designed by [TS]

00:20:16   a bunch of people who grew up with Star [TS]

00:20:17   Trek and wanted to flip out communicator [TS]

00:20:20   like Captain Kirk at and so they built [TS]

00:20:22   it to go back to the idea that story [TS]

00:20:25   shape the narrative of the time or [TS]

00:20:26   reflect them there's the page where you [TS]

00:20:28   see the news portal with the the google [TS]

00:20:31   search interface and the amplified news [TS]

00:20:34   network and the internet people talking [TS]

00:20:37   at once there's a forum thread is the [TS]

00:20:39   first time i think i've seen a forum [TS]

00:20:40   thread and a comic book one of the [TS]

00:20:41   people's names his bunk Moreland who is [TS]

00:20:43   a character on the wire [TS]

00:20:45   haha and the reason that stood out for [TS]

00:20:48   me is because I have totally missed that [TS]

00:20:50   I've been lucky enough to sit on another [TS]

00:20:52   academic panels were people have talked [TS]

00:20:54   about how the wire is essentially one of [TS]

00:20:56   the first examples of long-form [TS]

00:20:57   fictional reportage where as a TV series [TS]

00:21:00   it's deeply rooted in observation [TS]

00:21:03   reporting and then all of that this fax [TS]

00:21:05   got mashed into a fictional outline and [TS]

00:21:07   spit back out to people where once they [TS]

00:21:09   saw that they could then begin to see [TS]

00:21:10   how this is playing out in real life [TS]

00:21:12   there's already that fiction vs [TS]

00:21:14   nonfiction loop in the wire and then [TS]

00:21:16   there's a slight little reference to [TS]

00:21:17   riot read in the forum thing because you [TS]

00:21:19   got a to anyone standing man yeah [TS]

00:21:22   bunk Moreland and how Punk having you be [TS]

00:21:26   getting drunk with delta delta yes [TS]

00:21:29   yeah and I just you know again again you [TS]

00:21:33   could argue that the wire actually does [TS]

00:21:34   blur that line as well because i'm sure [TS]

00:21:36   there are people in Baltimore who would [TS]

00:21:37   love to tell you that look you know you [TS]

00:21:38   may have seen five seasons of this TV [TS]

00:21:40   show but this is what our it really is [TS]

00:21:42   like and I'm sure there are people [TS]

00:21:44   across the country who have this [TS]

00:21:45   impression of Baltimore based entirely [TS]

00:21:47   on five seasons of the wire right and [TS]

00:21:49   maybe some [TS]

00:21:50   some homicide in the corner but it's all [TS]

00:21:52   based on David Simon basically writing [TS]

00:21:53   about Baltimore David Simon's created a [TS]

00:21:55   fictitious Baltimore basically which is [TS]

00:21:57   based on real-life reporting see where [TS]

00:21:59   it gets all right right that's well [TS]

00:22:01   that's interesting because there and it [TS]

00:22:02   is it is fiction based on reality yeah [TS]

00:22:04   and that is one of the core questions [TS]

00:22:06   and the unwritten is is Tommy Taylor a [TS]

00:22:09   fraud who was adopted for stolen from [TS]

00:22:12   Eastern European parents or any real and [TS]

00:22:15   is he the real Tommy Taylor or is he [TS]

00:22:17   just a kid who had not none of that he [TS]

00:22:19   wasn't created by the story of existence [TS]

00:22:21   can be seen as right name with the [TS]

00:22:24   unwritten and what and what does that [TS]

00:22:25   what does the name of this comic mean [TS]

00:22:28   with all those people who get unwritten [TS]

00:22:30   who there are dissolved into words in [TS]

00:22:33   the book which I sort of like very [TS]

00:22:35   visually was it was really compelling [TS]

00:22:37   because we're talking a lot about this [TS]

00:22:39   on the sort of the meta-level and I [TS]

00:22:41   don't think you can actually talk about [TS]

00:22:43   it or not it isn't a successful story [TS]

00:22:44   like this something that you can enjoy [TS]

00:22:46   on the meta-level and get all those sort [TS]

00:22:48   of references but also on it on just [TS]

00:22:51   that reading it as a simple story and [TS]

00:22:54   does this work as a simple story i was [TS]

00:22:56   going to say i would love to find out [TS]

00:22:57   the impression of somebody who wasn't [TS]

00:22:59   familiar with vertigo [TS]

00:23:01   well that's me or fantasy and so Jason [TS]

00:23:03   yes what is your profession [TS]

00:23:05   well as I alluded to earlier I i did [TS]

00:23:08   have a difficult time really getting [TS]

00:23:10   into it on that simple story level [TS]

00:23:12   because i kept thinking about wow this [TS]

00:23:14   is this is playing on a lot of levels [TS]

00:23:16   here because it's a it's a story about [TS]

00:23:18   stories and you know and it wants you to [TS]

00:23:20   view it that way because every issue [TS]

00:23:22   begins in a story and then pulls you out [TS]

00:23:26   of the story into reality [TS]

00:23:28   so it was obviously i don't i'm not [TS]

00:23:30   going to get any other references to [TS]

00:23:32   other not only other works but also just [TS]

00:23:34   I don't know that the history of of the [TS]

00:23:36   the kind of things that vertigo produces [TS]

00:23:39   where you look at a vertigo thing and [TS]

00:23:40   say oh it's a vertical thing I got that [TS]

00:23:42   i think i've read i'm up to like the [TS]

00:23:45   fifth issue of The Sandman I'm like [TS]

00:23:46   completely a litter about that sort of [TS]

00:23:48   thing here that neil gaiman is good dump [TS]

00:23:50   he's gonna go place is he's coming out [TS]

00:23:52   yeah that's right i wonder what novel by [TS]

00:23:54   him would be like for a screenplay for [TS]

00:23:56   at episode of Doctor Who anyway we'll [TS]

00:23:57   find out [TS]

00:23:58   that kid is going places so so that was [TS]

00:24:01   my challenges like the characters are [TS]

00:24:03   our i'm not entirely sure what they are [TS]

00:24:06   and if they're kind of blanks [TS]

00:24:07   I mean Tommy Taylor is in many ways in [TS]

00:24:09   this first set of stories he's really [TS]

00:24:11   been frustrating character he's he's [TS]

00:24:13   he's a kind of grumpy guy who made who [TS]

00:24:16   is unsure about his past and he's trying [TS]

00:24:18   to repel against it and say no no I'm [TS]

00:24:19   not that kid but I think there's also [TS]

00:24:21   this great question there that has to be [TS]

00:24:23   there for the story but as a result of a [TS]

00:24:24   little off-putting and there's the the [TS]

00:24:26   one other character who's the woman [TS]

00:24:28   whose name escapes me hexham [TS]

00:24:30   yeah-hoo-hoo comes in and seems to know [TS]

00:24:32   what's going on and is trying to to help [TS]

00:24:34   him along the way she herself her name [TS]

00:24:37   is like character from a fictitious [TS]

00:24:38   right work right and there's a clear and [TS]

00:24:41   it seems it seems like she may actually [TS]

00:24:42   be a fictional creation come to life [TS]

00:24:45   although again we've seen there are a [TS]

00:24:47   couple characters early on where there's [TS]

00:24:49   a guy who supposedly as the the [TS]

00:24:51   Voldemort essentially of of the of the [TS]

00:24:53   Tommy Taylor books come to life and it [TS]

00:24:55   turns out that you have Jeff keen on the [TS]

00:24:57   first page but it turns out that the [TS]

00:25:00   voltage or whatever his name my mouth [TS]

00:25:02   something out Earl folio the vampire [TS]

00:25:05   ambrosio camp at contemporary oh he's a [TS]

00:25:08   he's a he's a drifter who just risky [TS]

00:25:12   they said at least so they say right [TS]

00:25:14   which gets us back to that but again so [TS]

00:25:17   much going on and rich in that level but [TS]

00:25:19   i would have to if if I'm answering your [TS]

00:25:20   question truthfully i have to say that i [TS]

00:25:22   was i was actually maybe two engaged too [TS]

00:25:25   soon on that upper level and not able to [TS]

00:25:29   invest enough and the characters and I [TS]

00:25:30   I'd almost rather have seen hard to do [TS]

00:25:33   this especially if you're coming out [TS]

00:25:34   with sequential issues you know 22 pages [TS]

00:25:37   at a time really hard to do this but I [TS]

00:25:39   almost like to see think i was reading [TS]

00:25:41   the story of a guy who's burdened by the [TS]

00:25:44   his father's work for longer and really [TS]

00:25:48   feel like you know I've connected with [TS]

00:25:51   that guy before you pull the rug out [TS]

00:25:54   from under me and I felt like the rug [TS]

00:25:55   was never under me I i fell in the first [TS]

00:25:58   issue I did feel some of that connection [TS]

00:26:00   but i wonder if it was them using some [TS]

00:26:02   shorthand in the sense that it it starts [TS]

00:26:05   in a comic book convention which I'm [TS]

00:26:07   intimately familiar with comic books [TS]

00:26:09   entrants into one of those now and as a [TS]

00:26:11   past month this one yeah yeah [TS]

00:26:14   comic-con 2010 is the first comic book [TS]

00:26:16   convention that she went big [TS]

00:26:18   yeah well we go big or go home exactly [TS]

00:26:21   then I went home the fact that it starts [TS]

00:26:22   at a comic convention with a guy who's [TS]

00:26:25   been he is there to make money off of [TS]

00:26:29   not even something he did years ago but [TS]

00:26:31   something his father did and named after [TS]

00:26:33   years ago and named after him [TS]

00:26:35   mhm you know being kind of embittered by [TS]

00:26:37   it being you know that he's defined by [TS]

00:26:38   this character but the same time they're [TS]

00:26:40   exploiting at making money because he [TS]

00:26:42   has no other way to do it if you go to [TS]

00:26:43   any moderately sized comic convention [TS]

00:26:45   you'll see those people from the [TS]

00:26:47   seventies sci-fi TV shows i took a [TS]

00:26:50   picture of guilt girardin Erin gray [TS]

00:26:51   signing things culture our hair and [TS]

00:26:53   wearing a pair of shorts signing Buck [TS]

00:26:55   Rogers memorabilia on the first page [TS]

00:26:57   they have them sitting next to somebody [TS]

00:26:58   who's name is Jareth calendar and [TS]

00:27:01   calendar basically calls out the [TS]

00:27:04   creator's intense with always thought [TS]

00:27:05   your Christopher Robin and Tommy replies [TS]

00:27:08   back looks like you've stopped the [TS]

00:27:09   circle of your immediate family and it's [TS]

00:27:11   pretty obvious that it's meant to be a [TS]

00:27:12   slam on Family Circle and Bill and Jeff [TS]

00:27:15   quinoa I did I didn't see a an article [TS]

00:27:18   somewhere where I think my kerry said [TS]

00:27:22   that the model for this story was [TS]

00:27:24   Christopher Robin and that the idea that [TS]

00:27:27   a million wrote these wildly successful [TS]

00:27:29   winnie-the-pooh books with Christopher [TS]

00:27:31   Robin at the center and that was his son [TS]

00:27:34   and yeah but in his attempt to director [TS]

00:27:36   eclipsed the Sun to the point where all [TS]

00:27:38   the people wanted to talk about was oh [TS]

00:27:40   you're Christopher Robin from the books [TS]

00:27:41   and the answer is No [TS]

00:27:43   yeah I'm the one from the real world and [TS]

00:27:45   it's it's a really interesting idea and [TS]

00:27:47   you're right you know they spend a lot [TS]

00:27:49   of the first issue I guess maybe what [TS]

00:27:51   did it for me is that by dropping you [TS]

00:27:53   into the Tommy Taylor books immediately [TS]

00:27:54   I I like immediately I'm like all right [TS]

00:27:56   we're going to juxtapose the books with [TS]

00:27:58   the reality of this guy i don't know [TS]

00:28:00   it's an interesting story but I guess I [TS]

00:28:02   was more engaged on that the meta-level [TS]

00:28:04   then I was on the actual level i would [TS]

00:28:06   love to know if the villain pull [TS]

00:28:08   Minister supposed to be named after [TS]

00:28:09   Philip Pullman in any way [TS]

00:28:10   wow that's a nice reference to get all [TS]

00:28:13   these different things and in pullman is [TS]

00:28:16   is such a distinct fantasy writer and [TS]

00:28:19   many of his conventions are both i would [TS]

00:28:21   say what he did in the golden compass [TS]

00:28:22   so different from any fiction [TS]

00:28:24   conventions we're all good news will [TS]

00:28:26   around you BTW guys can save the [TS]

00:28:28   universe but a horrible personal cost to [TS]

00:28:30   you and it's exactly the opposite of the [TS]

00:28:33   way a lot of fiction works that were [TS]

00:28:34   somehow magically works everybody so [TS]

00:28:36   before we move on from talking about the [TS]

00:28:38   unwritten night I want to ask a similar [TS]

00:28:40   question here which is did you like it [TS]

00:28:43   and would you keep reading it [TS]

00:28:45   yes and yes wow that's like no I do have [TS]

00:28:49   elaborate theories that I do have some [TS]

00:28:51   trepidation and this may be more my [TS]

00:28:54   experiences as a longtime comic book [TS]

00:28:56   reader and less a reflection on this [TS]

00:28:57   book but unless they have a way to [TS]

00:28:59   resolve this and then find a way to [TS]

00:29:01   continue the underlying bedrock themes I [TS]

00:29:03   worry that this book will turn into [TS]

00:29:05   something else after about 50 issues [TS]

00:29:07   because you can really only drag out the [TS]

00:29:08   central mystery who are these people why [TS]

00:29:10   are they trying to shape reality where [TS]

00:29:12   did Wilson go once you once you answer [TS]

00:29:13   those questions you have to have [TS]

00:29:15   invented a new set of questions into the [TS]

00:29:17   first quest that's a lot of quests into [TS]

00:29:20   the first quest or you have to kind of [TS]

00:29:22   hit a reboot button and summary boots [TS]

00:29:24   are are are good and others [TS]

00:29:27   wait what about us yes that's true with [TS]

00:29:30   any and kind of comic series especially [TS]

00:29:32   or any long-running series we're at some [TS]

00:29:34   point you you either need to shut it [TS]

00:29:35   down or that's actually the things I [TS]

00:29:37   like best about salmon as they shut it [TS]

00:29:38   down after 75 issues there was a story [TS]

00:29:40   he told it he was done but vertigo is [TS]

00:29:42   actually pretty good as an imprint about [TS]

00:29:44   doing that with the exception of swamp [TS]

00:29:46   thing and help laser you allow stories [TS]

00:29:50   to sort of run their course and then end [TS]

00:29:53   yeah so and I think you're actually [TS]

00:29:54   seeing that in comics a lot more often [TS]

00:29:56   and x mac is ending with issue 50 [TS]

00:29:59   planetary ended issue whatever 27-1 [TS]

00:30:03   right only took like five years to do [TS]

00:30:05   know if he started planting like 1999 oh [TS]

00:30:08   my god it was fantastic we should talk [TS]

00:30:10   about planetary sometime that Alright [TS]

00:30:12   yeah that haven't realized some serious [TS]

00:30:14   you've got it would be a bit you're [TS]

00:30:16   skipping skipping ahead now because I'm [TS]

00:30:17   gonna ask you what you're reading now [TS]

00:30:19   and what should you read because that's [TS]

00:30:20   going to be one of the recurring themes [TS]

00:30:22   on this yeah [TS]

00:30:23   excellently named podcast whatever it's [TS]

00:30:24   named just i saya i was surprised that I [TS]

00:30:28   like this it's been a long time since [TS]

00:30:29   i've read a vertigo book for many years [TS]

00:30:31   and so I i did enjoy this and [TS]

00:30:34   I'm intrigued enough about some of the [TS]

00:30:36   mystery that will keep reading it I [TS]

00:30:37   think they set up a lot of questions the [TS]

00:30:39   way to sort of cliffhanger it ends on is [TS]

00:30:42   the flying cat it's quite painful that [TS]

00:30:44   they end on a cliffhanger and do the [TS]

00:30:46   thing that I like the least [TS]

00:30:47   although again intentionally frustrating [TS]

00:30:49   in comics which is you end on a [TS]

00:30:51   cliffhanger and then you do a standalone [TS]

00:30:52   issue that's not related to anything [TS]

00:30:54   with the company for gotta build that [TS]

00:30:55   tension guy finally it's here it so it [TS]

00:30:58   doesn't answer any of those questions [TS]

00:30:59   and this is why trades i think of more [TS]

00:31:01   satisfying sometimes is because they're [TS]

00:31:04   published so far after flimsies that if [TS]

00:31:06   you really want to find out what [TS]

00:31:07   happened to you you can go and then do [TS]

00:31:09   so so does there's probably an entire [TS]

00:31:12   podcast here but just the short version [TS]

00:31:14   of trade paperback versus the little you [TS]

00:31:17   know flimsies as we as we seem to have [TS]

00:31:19   have started calling them you know where [TS]

00:31:21   do you where do you come down on on that [TS]

00:31:23   leaving digital aside for a minute just [TS]

00:31:25   the trade trades versus the flames I've [TS]

00:31:28   obviously I i attempted to reconnect to [TS]

00:31:30   the flimsy you know individual issues [TS]

00:31:32   and fail then went back to two trades [TS]

00:31:35   and hardcovers just because the [TS]

00:31:36   individual tracking and I was trained [TS]

00:31:39   not to throw them out or recycle them [TS]

00:31:40   which means you gotta save them away [TS]

00:31:42   unlike every other periodicals yet [TS]

00:31:44   higher garage is now taken over with my [TS]

00:31:46   flimsies collection which is why switch [TS]

00:31:47   to trade so you you switched and aren't [TS]

00:31:50   buying individual issues anymore [TS]

00:31:51   the only exception might be ex machina [TS]

00:31:53   because I've been following that since [TS]

00:31:55   issue 1 and you want to ride it to the [TS]

00:31:56   end [TS]

00:31:57   yeah because that's what I do with what [TS]

00:31:58   that's what i do y the last man or if [TS]

00:32:00   it's a limited brunch series that I [TS]

00:32:02   suspect won't make it into trade [TS]

00:32:04   all right i'll do that for example [TS]

00:32:06   vertigo had a series called the witching [TS]

00:32:07   that I enjoyed that you'll never see [TS]

00:32:09   internet was a tennis shoe run it didn't [TS]

00:32:10   do well at all and disappeared i'm glad [TS]

00:32:12   i have this because I can pull those out [TS]

00:32:13   there's one or two series i'll still buy [TS]

00:32:15   flimsies mainly just to support the [TS]

00:32:18   series because i don't think it's that [TS]

00:32:20   popular or big but then I had switch [TS]

00:32:22   entirely trades and now I'm kind of [TS]

00:32:24   dropping trades in favor of more omnibus [TS]

00:32:28   collections in the Attic offers as Biggs [TS]

00:32:33   hundred-dollar tire collection and [TS]

00:32:35   because now it you're reading a floppy [TS]

00:32:37   takes like two minutes and it sort of [TS]

00:32:40   very disposable but now even a lot of [TS]

00:32:41   trades there are five issues of these [TS]

00:32:43   two minutes floppies so in trade is like [TS]

00:32:45   15 minutes of reading a lot of times [TS]

00:32:48   which that's not enough for me anymore [TS]

00:32:49   it takes me longer to bagged and boarded [TS]

00:32:50   flames and it does to actually be [TS]

00:32:52   absolute collections tend to be 24 plus [TS]

00:32:55   issues and to me that's a good [TS]

00:32:57   experience and you're getting more [TS]

00:32:58   complete story it as a part of that [TS]

00:33:00   experience are you [TS]

00:33:01   yeah I have some in some things I picked [TS]

00:33:03   up and trade because i have made sure i [TS]

00:33:05   wanted to commit to them and then i end [TS]

00:33:06   up with them in trading I'm like I wish [TS]

00:33:08   I just like invincible actually you [TS]

00:33:10   bought me the first two traits of [TS]

00:33:11   invincible and they're great and I [TS]

00:33:12   actually wish that I had a big hard [TS]

00:33:13   cover on the buses of those and i may go [TS]

00:33:15   back and do that because i am that's [TS]

00:33:17   another topic for another show i suppose [TS]

00:33:19   but I love love love Robert Kirkman's [TS]

00:33:21   invincible to the point where i should [TS]

00:33:23   have you know just committed to the [TS]

00:33:25   hardcovers like i did with ultimate [TS]

00:33:26   spider-man right I just have a hard for [TS]

00:33:28   planetary i bought the I first absolute [TS]

00:33:31   collection and then I had to wait three [TS]

00:33:33   four years for the second look like a [TS]

00:33:36   little swing out yeah and to finish the [TS]

00:33:39   story but now I have to go back and [TS]

00:33:40   reread the first absolute so i can read [TS]

00:33:42   the whole thing at once but yeah that's [TS]

00:33:44   the problem with the bigger you get in [TS]

00:33:46   the collections the longer you have to [TS]

00:33:47   wait [TS]

00:33:48   writing collections right even on the [TS]

00:33:50   when I was doing the Marvel heart cut [TS]

00:33:52   our soft covers of ultimate spider-man [TS]

00:33:54   and waiting for the hardcover you to its [TS]

00:33:56   to trade weights so it's like a year [TS]

00:33:58   yeah yeah so to a yearly hardcover the [TS]

00:34:01   drops on your desk and like all right [TS]

00:34:02   which is not that different from you [TS]

00:34:05   know that the Harry Potter series or any [TS]

00:34:07   other kind of a novel series where you [TS]

00:34:10   wait a year or two kids like the [TS]

00:34:12   difference between when television shows [TS]

00:34:14   get broadcast on the air for the first [TS]

00:34:15   time versus the dvds right there shows [TS]

00:34:18   we're back to the wire [TS]

00:34:20   well I actually watch the wire as it was [TS]

00:34:22   on HBO [TS]

00:34:23   i'm watching about DVD and I actually [TS]

00:34:25   think that there's a substantial [TS]

00:34:26   difference between when you watch a show [TS]

00:34:28   and it airs every weekend have a week to [TS]

00:34:29   let it percolate your brain you think [TS]

00:34:31   about you invested his expectations into [TS]

00:34:33   it i just have to do that with a wire I [TS]

00:34:34   can't watch the wire like like now Andy [TS]

00:34:37   because now it can be but um okay here's [TS]

00:34:39   another example television what might be [TS]

00:34:41   one of my favorite junk series is the [TS]

00:34:43   tutors I just I just find that series [TS]

00:34:45   delightful it's hysterically funny [TS]

00:34:46   jonathan rhys-meyers place Henry the [TS]

00:34:48   answers and I [TS]

00:34:48   hinge lunatic rock god the history has [TS]

00:34:51   been tied up and left in a closet [TS]

00:34:52   somewhere i think if i had watched an [TS]

00:34:54   episode by episode on showtime I would [TS]

00:34:56   have been very frustrated because Oh [TS]

00:34:57   they've dropped this storyline and oh [TS]

00:34:59   this person was on this episode there [TS]

00:35:00   and you never see them again i download [TS]

00:35:03   entire seasons from itunes and just run [TS]

00:35:05   them when I'm working on something or if [TS]

00:35:06   I feel like watching two or three in a [TS]

00:35:08   row and it's a much different experience [TS]

00:35:10   and I feel sometimes that reading [TS]

00:35:12   single-issue comics compared to reading [TS]

00:35:14   the entire story arc through trade it's [TS]

00:35:16   the same thing where you can be really [TS]

00:35:18   disappointed by single issue where you [TS]

00:35:19   can be really late to buy a single issue [TS]

00:35:21   but when you see it in context in trades [TS]

00:35:23   it's it's a it's a different experience [TS]

00:35:24   in a different reaction when watch men [TS]

00:35:26   came out i read watchmen as it was [TS]

00:35:29   coming out and and actually stopped [TS]

00:35:32   reading comics after the last issue [TS]

00:35:34   because I felt like I I all it is put it [TS]

00:35:36   made everything else pale incompatible [TS]

00:35:38   done it this will never happen again two [TS]

00:35:39   years but what that experience was [TS]

00:35:42   really you know you would read issue 1 [TS]

00:35:44   and then a month later you would read [TS]

00:35:46   issue 1 an issue 2 and then a month [TS]

00:35:47   later you would read one two and three [TS]

00:35:49   and then you had enough time to read the [TS]

00:35:51   text in the back where there were these [TS]

00:35:53   detailed excerpts that would take you [TS]

00:35:55   longer to read the comic just these [TS]

00:35:57   three or four text pages and then by the [TS]

00:35:59   end you know there were two months [TS]

00:36:01   between issue 11 an issue 12 it had been [TS]

00:36:03   monthly up till that boy that was [TS]

00:36:05   painful and delayed a month and and what [TS]

00:36:08   a cliffhanger and again you know it then [TS]

00:36:10   it's read 1 through 11 so that when 12 [TS]

00:36:13   hits and that's a very different [TS]

00:36:14   experience to have all that time to [TS]

00:36:17   ponder vs vs not i think that's why I [TS]

00:36:20   was so disappointed with how J michael [TS]

00:36:21   Straczynski is rising stars ended its [TS]

00:36:24   because i had to wait a billion years [TS]

00:36:26   for for the final issue and then once it [TS]

00:36:28   was done I was this is at so i waited [TS]

00:36:30   for this I felt that way about the Star [TS]

00:36:32   Wars trilogy the second one [TS]

00:36:34   oh my god that's right i want to have my [TS]

00:36:36   life for three more star wars movies and [TS]

00:36:38   this is what I get haha yeah yeah you're [TS]

00:36:40   right i mean rising stars what I think [TS]

00:36:42   if you'd read all all of those as I'm [TS]

00:36:45   unit and is angry my heart away with [TS]

00:36:46   disappointing [TS]

00:36:47   yeah yeah cuz i read i read vol.3 in [TS]

00:36:50   after reading vol.12 much earlier in [TS]

00:36:52   trade paperback I I like vol.3 came out [TS]

00:36:54   my reaction was ok i see what he was [TS]

00:36:57   doing there I wasn't quite as enraged as [TS]

00:36:59   you but I do [TS]

00:37:00   think that it's about expectations about [TS]

00:37:02   waiting and he held up and if it's build [TS]

00:37:04   up for nothing then I did feel in the [TS]

00:37:07   unwritten that the issues were pretty [TS]

00:37:09   dense yes yes yes going like it's only [TS]

00:37:13   22 pages I know which i haven't had that [TS]

00:37:15   experience in a comic in a long time [TS]

00:37:17   since they're so decompressed now and if [TS]

00:37:19   you read them digitally it's just like a [TS]

00:37:20   conversation on the previous podcast [TS]

00:37:22   about reading in the end an e-reader you [TS]

00:37:24   don't even know how far into it you are [TS]

00:37:26   yeah and and you realize what this is [TS]

00:37:28   page 15 you know you tap and see that [TS]

00:37:30   it's page fifteen to twenty i almost [TS]

00:37:31   think that our meeting this week's [TS]

00:37:32   reading this comic monthly would work [TS]

00:37:36   yeah but it's so it's a good so you have [TS]

00:37:38   so much to chillin right and you have a [TS]

00:37:39   good a good enough experience in reading [TS]

00:37:42   the single issue that you don't feel [TS]

00:37:44   like you're wasting your money or that [TS]

00:37:45   you need the second one right away your [TS]

00:37:47   own you're not getting necessarily a [TS]

00:37:49   complete story but you're getting enough [TS]

00:37:50   of a story that satisfied she wanted [TS]

00:37:52   yeah it feels is actually really [TS]

00:37:54   satisfying an issue by issue basis [TS]

00:37:56   because even after you finish the story [TS]

00:37:57   you go back and you take a look at the [TS]

00:37:58   side panel artwork and the themes that [TS]

00:38:01   they've introduced and you get what [TS]

00:38:02   they're doing visually on top of [TS]

00:38:03   narrative Lee it's it's it's delightful [TS]

00:38:05   that by ok let's move on to what are you [TS]

00:38:09   reading right now i thought i would ask [TS]

00:38:11   each of you you don't have to go into a [TS]

00:38:12   lot of detail if you don't want to but [TS]

00:38:14   even in the realm of comics you know [TS]

00:38:16   what's got your attention these days [TS]

00:38:18   well the I don't need to stump you [TS]

00:38:20   rather than going on written it's what [TS]

00:38:21   we've been reading yet on the trade side [TS]

00:38:24   everything i'm getting his old material [TS]

00:38:27   and really enjoy that out Sandman [TS]

00:38:28   mystery theater which is the [TS]

00:38:31   nineteen-thirties New York City Sandman [TS]

00:38:34   in the gas mask pulp stories written by [TS]

00:38:37   matt wagner mostly illustrated by guy [TS]

00:38:40   davis beautiful work there we could do a [TS]

00:38:43   podcast about that and maybe we will [TS]

00:38:45   send a series of trades that i've been [TS]

00:38:47   reading issue wise i enjoy agents of [TS]

00:38:51   atlas from marvel comics which is a [TS]

00:38:53   crazy sort of the brat pack of superhero [TS]

00:38:57   books it's it's taken from a what-if [TS]

00:39:00   story from like for the rat past six not [TS]

00:39:02   Brad pack the red right [TS]

00:39:04   pat was not it was gonna be so washy [TS]

00:39:07   right mom and dad back ere I thanks the [TS]

00:39:10   best friend Sammy Andy and itself is [TS]

00:39:13   essentially this a talking gorilla Man U [TS]

00:39:16   Iranian spaceman a Venus goddess a [TS]

00:39:20   murderer woman and a nineteen fifties [TS]

00:39:25   FBI agent jimmy wu yep guys forming a [TS]

00:39:29   team it's pretty fantastic written by [TS]

00:39:32   Jeff Parker yeah really good i read the [TS]

00:39:35   miniseries of that on your [TS]

00:39:35   recommendation and really really good [TS]

00:39:37   and funny and and is you know it's a [TS]

00:39:40   actually an interesting because that is [TS]

00:39:42   one of those rare cases where you've got [TS]

00:39:44   a publisher owned scenario that that [TS]

00:39:47   feels a lot more like it was a [TS]

00:39:48   creator-owned book because there's so [TS]

00:39:50   much creativity that goes into the [TS]

00:39:52   building of that from from some old [TS]

00:39:53   characters that would they found laying [TS]

00:39:54   around in the Marvel and intellectual [TS]

00:39:56   property in right yeah characters that [TS]

00:39:58   were in like an eight-page backup story [TS]

00:40:00   in a from a comic in the sixties ya and [TS]

00:40:03   bring them into the modern-day quite [TS]

00:40:05   literally bring them into the modern day [TS]

00:40:06   followed him out and put them down in [TS]

00:40:08   today and put them in charge of a little [TS]

00:40:12   organization but syndicate yeah [TS]

00:40:14   exit guys in charge of criminal criminal [TS]

00:40:15   syndicate understand Francisco yes nice [TS]

00:40:18   could be right here right now I love [TS]

00:40:20   reading comics in San Francisco just for [TS]

00:40:22   that reason because i love seeing how [TS]

00:40:23   what landmarks they get or what ones [TS]

00:40:25   they create I keep meaning to read those [TS]

00:40:27   x-men issues we have moved to San I know [TS]

00:40:30   yes in the Tana lived in San Francisco [TS]

00:40:32   for a while so it was someone when she [TS]

00:40:35   was doing that because in seven soldiers [TS]

00:40:38   they explicitly referenced living in San [TS]

00:40:40   Francisco attending a superhero support [TS]

00:40:42   group in the east bay i was just telling [TS]

00:40:43   you about seven soldiers yeah we should [TS]

00:40:45   I've got all those if you want to bart [TS]

00:40:46   well you'll download the many ways going [TS]

00:40:48   to have got no no no I can't believe I [TS]

00:40:50   could borrow all the flames on a [TS]

00:40:52   wonderful NZ now i'm all the way if I [TS]

00:40:53   got to get back to you and a hardcover [TS]

00:40:55   so so what about you and Lisa what are [TS]

00:40:56   you reading right now [TS]

00:40:57   scalped real mention scale really love [TS]

00:41:00   scalped think Jason Aaron is a fantastic [TS]

00:41:02   writer it shows you characters that you [TS]

00:41:04   don't see a lot of the other stories [TS]

00:41:06   period so I'm enjoy an implicit snore [TS]

00:41:09   and I have a soft spot for nor I'm [TS]

00:41:11   catching up on invincible I just got the [TS]

00:41:13   last two trades i am thinking about [TS]

00:41:14   revisiting walking dead because [TS]

00:41:16   love walking dead i read through the [TS]

00:41:18   series run on my brother is an avid [TS]

00:41:21   collector and so I read through the [TS]

00:41:22   series run when I was visiting him last [TS]

00:41:24   Thanksgiving and I had horrible [TS]

00:41:24   nightmares for like three days straight [TS]

00:41:26   after finishing a cute little do that [TS]

00:41:28   for and so I there's part of me that's [TS]

00:41:30   like I don't want to do it again and [TS]

00:41:31   there's part of me that really wants to [TS]

00:41:33   go back and see what I missed when I was [TS]

00:41:34   busy cringing my way through the first [TS]

00:41:35   time because when i was really the first [TS]

00:41:37   time I just kept flipping the page to [TS]

00:41:39   see what happened and I would be like oh [TS]

00:41:40   this is horrible oh my god [TS]

00:41:42   but you like writing specifically [TS]

00:41:44   thinking obviously the first to the [TS]

00:41:45   first two hard covers are in my amazon I [TS]

00:41:48   i have read it and now the works too [TS]

00:41:50   hard covers are in my amazon shopping [TS]

00:41:52   cart i read both in the big hardcovers [TS]

00:41:54   so I sort of read walking dead every two [TS]

00:41:56   years when the new big hardcover comes [TS]

00:41:58   out but now we won't have to we can [TS]

00:41:59   watch it on AMC starting in november [TS]

00:42:01   kind of curious that's another reason I [TS]

00:42:03   want to reduce I want to be grounded and [TS]

00:42:05   as we're in the Canon before it comes [TS]

00:42:07   out on TV so i can be all pedantic and [TS]

00:42:09   picking not like it at all and i am [TS]

00:42:12   waiting for is turning over in his grave [TS]

00:42:15   right now I'm saying let me out [TS]

00:42:18   I'm Marvel from way back but i did get [TS]

00:42:20   into Gail Simone's running birds of prey [TS]

00:42:22   when she was that doing that in DC and [TS]

00:42:23   they recently revived the title and I'm [TS]

00:42:25   actually waiting for the trade to come [TS]

00:42:27   the first revived trade to come out a [TS]

00:42:28   few months when that happens on your [TS]

00:42:31   right around it [TS]

00:42:31   no it's galley brought it back at is [TS]

00:42:33   that just the recent recent reboot [TS]

00:42:35   reboot of like jun 2010 yeah that now [TS]

00:42:38   has the guys in it to the yeah yeah [TS]

00:42:41   yeahs be a jerk which i thought would [TS]

00:42:42   make an interesting [TS]

00:42:43   yeah salary could have a jerk in having [TS]

00:42:46   the book [TS]

00:42:47   sure well DC's always been really good [TS]

00:42:48   about that i mean they had garden and [TS]

00:42:50   the Green Lantern Corps booster gold [TS]

00:42:52   goes back mr. gold yeah i mean they've [TS]

00:42:54   always got somebody where you're just [TS]

00:42:55   like okay and and and Jason what are you [TS]

00:42:58   reading when I when I actually am [TS]

00:43:00   reading right now is I just finished [TS]

00:43:02   scott pilgrim vol 1 which did with a [TS]

00:43:06   movie coming out and I thought well okay [TS]

00:43:07   they would invest millions of dollars in [TS]

00:43:10   making a movie maybe I should read the [TS]

00:43:12   comic and so I i didn't i'm not sure i [TS]

00:43:14   liked it quite frankly here i'm going to [TS]

00:43:16   read it again i'm not a big fan of the [TS]

00:43:18   cart super cartoony black-and-white [TS]

00:43:21   comic genre and that's what that is and [TS]

00:43:24   and i would say that this story for you [TS]

00:43:27   that's not you know being married [TS]

00:43:30   with children Ryan sure it's making two [TS]

00:43:32   different i can remember around being [TS]

00:43:34   married although i can't remember you [TS]

00:43:36   know my gay roommate or anything like [TS]

00:43:38   that but it won't turn out [TS]

00:43:40   it is a you know I role model that's a [TS]

00:43:42   young adult you know but but it is it is [TS]

00:43:45   a different kind of vibe and it's [TS]

00:43:46   interesting and yeah it's probably not [TS]

00:43:50   for me but I curiosity ever read The [TS]

00:43:52   Runaways the Marvel well because that's [TS]

00:43:55   also again that's breaking up on right [TS]

00:43:57   Frank avon International Union and I was [TS]

00:43:59   gonna ask what your reaction to that was [TS]

00:44:00   when you read that i really like the [TS]

00:44:02   runaways actually am i I'm i enjoyed [TS]

00:44:05   both both volumes of the runaways [TS]

00:44:07   I i like that like the premise you know [TS]

00:44:10   it's it's a it's a lot of players are [TS]

00:44:12   evil like these premises keep it [TS]

00:44:14   floating around is invincible the whole [TS]

00:44:15   ideas is dat superman except it turns [TS]

00:44:17   out that he's evil and he goes away and [TS]

00:44:19   i have been reading your redeemable by [TS]

00:44:20   Mark weight which is about student and [TS]

00:44:22   going evil and killing everybody I want [TS]

00:44:24   to get into that she's very good very [TS]

00:44:26   good [TS]

00:44:26   the The Runaways or bryan cave on just [TS]

00:44:28   in general his stories are always he's [TS]

00:44:30   got such great concepts that you can sum [TS]

00:44:32   up in the one sentence yeah kids find [TS]

00:44:35   out their parents are evil they run away [TS]

00:44:36   or mayor gets infected with the alien [TS]

00:44:37   technology right in New York City runs [TS]

00:44:40   new right all the best-looking guy with [TS]

00:44:42   a monkey yeah exactly just great [TS]

00:44:43   concepts of the runways I felt started [TS]

00:44:46   off really strong and then after reboot [TS]

00:44:49   after reboot can be entered out a bit as [TS]

00:44:51   much as a joss whedon fans i am I [TS]

00:44:53   actually felt like they made a mistake [TS]

00:44:54   by trying to keep it as an ongoing and [TS]

00:44:56   not say you know again we've done 12 [TS]

00:44:58   issues in the story is over and we might [TS]

00:45:00   do another volume at some other point [TS]

00:45:02   and instead sort of said let's make it [TS]

00:45:04   like any other Marvel comic and just [TS]

00:45:06   keep on producing those issues take a [TS]

00:45:08   page from british television limited-run [TS]

00:45:10   yeah just make the run and then come [TS]

00:45:12   back if you want to come back with [TS]

00:45:13   another story of something to marvel I [TS]

00:45:15   think did fairly well with the ultimate [TS]

00:45:16   swear they did volume on its volume to [TS]

00:45:18   really hone and if I at least put itself [TS]

00:45:20   contains the blast radius of jeph loeb [TS]

00:45:22   writing ultimate vol.3 is you can or [TS]

00:45:24   because you just don't read it and [TS]

00:45:26   they're okay we should do a pot entire [TS]

00:45:28   podcast and Ultimate Universe sometimes [TS]

00:45:30   i would love I would have strong [TS]

00:45:32   opinions about that see the good thing [TS]

00:45:34   about this starting this podcast is that [TS]

00:45:36   we seem to emerge from the episodes with [TS]

00:45:39   more concepts for future episodes [TS]

00:45:41   not entered with righteous onto the [TS]

00:45:43   comic book club because I'm never gonna [TS]

00:45:45   go to a regular book club I don't want [TS]

00:45:46   to read Eat Pray Love and talk about it [TS]

00:45:48   out and talk about combat is that is one [TS]

00:45:50   yes that is why somebody somebody [TS]

00:45:52   suggested on Twitter today that a zombie [TS]

00:45:54   version of Eat Pray Love would be great [TS]

00:45:56   grimsby brains love right [TS]

00:45:58   um I'm sure someone is working on that [TS]

00:46:00   right now is I'm sure Neal game and [TS]

00:46:03   maybe working on that in fact that you [TS]

00:46:04   have the marble on the universe that [TS]

00:46:06   went on so my question not just for me [TS]

00:46:08   but for for all of us to share is a is a [TS]

00:46:11   what should I read which should be [TS]

00:46:12   reading do you have a suggestion for [TS]

00:46:13   something that we should read next or if [TS]

00:46:15   you want based on if you like if you if [TS]

00:46:18   you like let's read on written or just [TS]

00:46:19   think just what [TS]

00:46:21   well you could you can do whatever you [TS]

00:46:22   like there are no rules here but I'm [TS]

00:46:24   just you know him but what should we be [TS]

00:46:26   what we should be reading in the future [TS]

00:46:28   whether this is not a guarantee that [TS]

00:46:29   we'll talk about it here but the wiimote [TS]

00:46:31   books i think we should talk about the [TS]

00:46:33   future are the one out there x makina I [TS]

00:46:37   alright next Mac michael bloomberg gets [TS]

00:46:40   magical powers my lord of its pretty [TS]

00:46:42   much it you know because he's [TS]

00:46:43   conservative i'm going to lobby for [TS]

00:46:44   preacher if you've never read it [TS]

00:46:46   mm not having an affair well that could [TS]

00:46:48   be good [TS]

00:46:49   yeah well I yeah I i started reading it [TS]

00:46:53   back when it first then I tried the [TS]

00:46:55   trades every now and then yeah I've [TS]

00:46:57   never successfully been able to finish [TS]

00:46:58   it could be my yeah yeah well we can get [TS]

00:47:01   into a few my casa very exciting the [TS]

00:47:04   planetary yes [TS]

00:47:05   oh let me out various planetary for [TS]

00:47:07   geologists of the unknown you know [TS]

00:47:09   because that also gives us an [TS]

00:47:10   opportunity to talk about that [TS]

00:47:11   university created which ties into the [TS]

00:47:13   authority and storm watch as well notice [TS]

00:47:16   right yeah i recently read the authority [TS]

00:47:17   and I thought that was actually pretty [TS]

00:47:18   pretty good haha [TS]

00:47:20   have you heard of the 20th century yeah [TS]

00:47:22   consideration it's really good they [TS]

00:47:24   rebooted a few times it's gotten really [TS]

00:47:25   if you just read the market a large [TS]

00:47:27   stuff or the warren ellis right yeah [TS]

00:47:29   just those two are awesome in all it's [TS]

00:47:32   actually more impressive if you consider [TS]

00:47:34   when it was written in which was all [TS]

00:47:36   late nineties there's actually as [TS]

00:47:39   everything is like that authority got [TS]

00:47:41   under the skin of some writer so badly [TS]

00:47:42   just Superman issue devoted to debunking [TS]

00:47:44   it which is like I'm not gay [TS]

00:47:47   fuck you know this basically it was that [TS]

00:47:50   because you know one of the bedrock [TS]

00:47:51   premises of the authorities look we're [TS]

00:47:53   gonna we're gonna take responsibility [TS]

00:47:54   and do things that you people will shy [TS]

00:47:56   away from doing and there is an [TS]

00:47:58   authority like cabal that runs while the [TS]

00:48:00   DC Universe for a couple of episodes and [TS]

00:48:02   Superman take some medicine and it was [TS]

00:48:03   no way we have an obligation to high [TS]

00:48:05   standards not that rebooted the rebooted [TS]

00:48:07   Justice League Justice William unlimited [TS]

00:48:10   or grin explores and where the the [TS]

00:48:12   aliens come from another planet and they [TS]

00:48:14   basically say we're superheroes and [TS]

00:48:16   we're going to take over and make the [TS]

00:48:17   world a better place in the JLA is like [TS]

00:48:19   what the hell [TS]

00:48:21   there's like a Justice League extreme or [TS]

00:48:22   justice league dark I can't remember the [TS]

00:48:24   name of the title i have it i'll have to [TS]

00:48:25   check my archive Scott that sounds so [TS]

00:48:27   pretentious have to check but yes it had [TS]

00:48:29   like the Ark of Noah had flashlights to [TS]

00:48:31   different rooms like a black uniform who [TS]

00:48:32   were working with this team and then the [TS]

00:48:34   regular uniform have the regular Justice [TS]

00:48:35   League and it was just insane i know i [TS]

00:48:38   can t really good i don't think i can [TS]

00:48:40   even give you guys any recommendations [TS]

00:48:41   for something you should read that you [TS]

00:48:42   haven't already read or that you have [TS]

00:48:44   been recommended to me because I could [TS]

00:48:45   say that the authority and I know that [TS]

00:48:47   you recommended that Jamie and agreed [TS]

00:48:49   Tom strong or top 10 [TS]

00:48:51   have you got a result by snot naga lat [TS]

00:48:53   long long time there's a nice big on the [TS]

00:48:55   bus have thought yeah there's heat i [TS]

00:48:56   ended up i had to have surgery at ucsf [TS]

00:48:58   last year and they delayed it by a [TS]

00:49:00   couple of hours and somebody had left [TS]

00:49:01   his omnibus in the waiting room and I've [TS]

00:49:03   read the entire thing while waiting for [TS]

00:49:04   it and good way to pass the time it was [TS]

00:49:06   a great way to pass the time and because [TS]

00:49:08   MacLeod is is the guy who wrote how did [TS]

00:49:11   you know understand comics exactly it [TS]

00:49:12   was fascinating to see what he was [TS]

00:49:14   putting into practice in his own book as [TS]

00:49:16   well so i think i just to be obscure [TS]

00:49:18   although you probably have read this i'm [TS]

00:49:20   going to say what you should read is [TS]

00:49:21   micronauts 1 through 12 by Bill man [TS]

00:49:23   alone Michael golden from the late [TS]

00:49:25   seventies the most delightful example of [TS]

00:49:27   how you can take a star wars ripoff [TS]

00:49:29   based on a toy and make it something [TS]

00:49:32   that actually is among my favorite [TS]

00:49:33   things in the entire medium so he might [TS]

00:49:35   that's my hand on my pile to read [TS]

00:49:38   yeah it is it isn't available in the [TS]

00:49:40   trade what I have two morrow 10 because [TS]

00:49:42   the rights have been completely messed [TS]

00:49:44   up it's available [TS]

00:49:45   it's available on on computers & ipad [TS]

00:49:47   that's k & and I actually i have these [TS]

00:49:51   but the Marvel reprinted a fine issue on [TS]

00:49:54   high-quality paper recolored watercolor [TS]

00:49:56   recolor of the first 12 issues a special [TS]

00:49:59   edition and I have that [TS]

00:49:59   actually on my bookshelf and I will [TS]

00:50:01   bring it in and Lexi because of [TS]

00:50:03   licensing issues there currently is no [TS]

00:50:05   legitimate way to buy a collection right [TS]

00:50:07   of the Micronauts right and in fact that [TS]

00:50:09   is why i downloaded i'm also that's why [TS]

00:50:11   i downloaded the migrants bit torn i [TS]

00:50:12   have all the flimsy issues but quite [TS]

00:50:14   frankly they're in a box under a box [TS]

00:50:16   under the rocks and micro i'm reading [TS]

00:50:18   rom right last night also [TS]

00:50:20   that's my girl that's built low and sal [TS]

00:50:22   buscema didn't want to know those were [TS]

00:50:24   those great to kind of toy tions that I [TS]

00:50:27   think far surpass her and outlived their [TS]

00:50:29   toy antecedence yeah there's a rom was [TS]

00:50:32   75 issues and a bunch of annuals and [TS]

00:50:35   people still talk about Rob yeah message [TS]

00:50:37   board and it's not available because of [TS]

00:50:39   the rice and always Harker brothers i [TS]

00:50:41   think is that one and then the Abrams [TS]

00:50:43   Gentile entertainment that have tried to [TS]

00:50:44   relicense micronauts a million times and [TS]

00:50:46   Marvel actually did to issues of microns [TS]

00:50:49   reboot before the writer and artist [TS]

00:50:50   discovered that the talks have broken [TS]

00:50:52   down and that they weren't able to [TS]

00:50:53   publish them and so yeah but anyway that [TS]

00:50:56   first run of the the first 12 issues [TS]

00:50:58   that's a huge fun and you can see the [TS]

00:51:01   star wars influences and you can see [TS]

00:51:03   them trying to find ways to get these [TS]

00:51:05   toys in but not happen be toys just and [TS]

00:51:08   as a seven-year-old basically right that [TS]

00:51:10   was the thing that was my know if we [TS]

00:51:12   don't like to star wars comic books for [TS]

00:51:14   those are classic seventies Marvel style [TS]

00:51:17   storing yeah which and Michael golden [TS]

00:51:20   doesn't get enough credit Jim medow [TS]

00:51:21   detection for Marvel from the seventies [TS]

00:51:23   were all the rage that right yeah grew [TS]

00:51:25   up reading it in the late 70s early [TS]

00:51:26   nineties half icy hot but I don't didn't [TS]

00:51:30   happen for me because watchman was [TS]

00:51:32   published and then I went away right [TS]

00:51:33   then you missed it you missed the entire [TS]

00:51:35   rob liefeld era i had a friend who [TS]

00:51:37   should be a better man I mean I said [TS]

00:51:39   let's not make our own guy he's really [TS]

00:51:41   popular and I looked at the Todd [TS]

00:51:42   McFarlane's spider-man I was like yes so [TS]

00:51:44   glad i'm not buying comics anymore right [TS]

00:51:47   having lived through the nineties comics [TS]

00:51:49   but there was so many at three years [TS]

00:51:51   where I would go to the comic store and [TS]

00:51:54   every wednesday and get walk out with [TS]

00:51:57   nothing very sad it was a depressing [TS]

00:51:59   dark time and then I picked up on a whim [TS]

00:52:02   in this comic store in in boerum hill in [TS]

00:52:05   Brooklyn a chris where acne novelty [TS]

00:52:08   library number three and that just [TS]

00:52:10   opened the entire world of like indie [TS]

00:52:12   comics [TS]

00:52:13   me would sort of saved the 1980 comics [TS]

00:52:15   used to be lame i'm with it again yeah [TS]

00:52:17   with people who can do make sure about [TS]

00:52:18   this and and spend for another time that [TS]

00:52:21   it used to be a used to be lame I mean [TS]

00:52:22   ever i bought John sable freelance by my [TS]

00:52:24   grill and it was pretty good [TS]

00:52:25   red star was jim Starlin owned it and [TS]

00:52:28   that was pretty cool but that was not [TS]

00:52:30   and you know there was your health [TS]

00:52:31   quests and you're you know you you make [TS]

00:52:33   fun of the elf question in HealthQuest [TS]

00:52:35   got me through 10th grade well I believe [TS]

00:52:37   it you know I by tenth grade English [TS]

00:52:38   class was so boring that my friends I [TS]

00:52:40   would pass around our issues of health [TS]

00:52:41   quest and and go back to it and it it's [TS]

00:52:44   tyrone we bad i'll admit that i'll be [TS]

00:52:46   it's like don bluth put to paper home [TS]

00:52:48   and get sauced Erica long way [TS]

00:52:51   yeah and it actually you know I have a [TS]

00:52:53   nice dream well yeah at the time you [TS]

00:52:55   know what you would you would never get [TS]

00:52:57   any an indie comic like invincible which [TS]

00:53:00   is essentially a marvel comic except in [TS]

00:53:02   its own universe and that's so great [TS]

00:53:04   because it's freed from all of that [TS]

00:53:05   stuff but it's still that kind of tone [TS]

00:53:08   which I grew up with and I love you so [TS]

00:53:10   but before we go I will say following on [TS]

00:53:12   my recommendation of micro not something [TS]

00:53:14   that you can get when you talk about us [TS]

00:53:15   being children of the seventies of [TS]

00:53:17   comics so are many of the creators out [TS]

00:53:20   there now which is why you start to see [TS]

00:53:21   those echoes and I i have the hardcover [TS]

00:53:23   of Planet Hulk which is by a guy named [TS]

00:53:26   Greg Pak planet hulk is so rife with [TS]

00:53:29   references and ama jizz to the [TS]

00:53:31   Micronauts especially those first 12 [TS]

00:53:33   issues that when i first read it I I i [TS]

00:53:36   was so excited I was like pacing around [TS]

00:53:38   my house because it's like oh my god [TS]

00:53:40   somebody else remembers the microphones [TS]

00:53:41   and they're gonna come and he's inviting [TS]

00:53:43   residents and it's hilarious good it's [TS]

00:53:49   it's true every night and every actual [TS]

00:53:50   characters that are that are are clearly [TS]

00:53:53   analogues of itself my that would be my [TS]

00:53:56   secondary recommendation that is [TS]

00:53:57   available widely and is a nice [TS]

00:53:59   self-contained story and I didn't really [TS]

00:54:01   related to the rest of the Hulk mythos [TS]

00:54:03   it's just kind of a what if there was a [TS]

00:54:05   big strong guy dropped down on the [TS]

00:54:06   planet and then things happen all right [TS]

00:54:08   well then I guess until next time i'd [TS]

00:54:10   like to thank jason reitman thank you [TS]

00:54:12   and.and please miser thank you for [TS]

00:54:14   having me I'm Jason snow please join us [TS]

00:54:16   next time [TS]

00:54:17   knows what the topic will be but we hope [TS]

00:54:19   you enjoyed it [TS]

00:54:23   for more information about this podcast [TS]

00:54:26   www.example.com [TS]