0:00:03the incomparable number 293 large 2060
0:00:10welcome back everybody to the
0:00:11uncomfortable i'm your host Jason L we
0:00:13are here to convene another edition of
0:00:15our comic book club we're going to talk
0:00:17about the weekend in the divine by karen
0:00:20gillan and Jamie McKelvie published by
0:00:22image comics we're going to be delving
0:00:23into the first two trades will blow the
0:00:26spoiler horn before we get into a lot of
0:00:28detail about them so you can run away
0:00:30that there are three trade paperbacks
0:00:31available so you can we like a in our
0:00:34book club to make it so that you can go
0:00:36out and buy a trade paperback or two and
0:00:39have a good reading experience without
0:00:41requiring you to read like 800 issues of
0:00:44something anyway joining me to talk
0:00:46about the wicked and the divine I i have
0:00:49some excellent members of comic book
0:00:50club this time Lisa Schmeisser as always
0:00:53hello hi I'm said that we're doing this
0:00:55I it's good it's good to have the comic
0:00:56book club back in session
0:00:58mhm the Tony centralized out there hi
0:01:00Tony hello nerds
0:01:02I we got a hell on earth from Tony
0:01:04answer again but some people want for
0:01:06some reason a more new comic book reader
0:01:10but she's back for more complicated
0:01:12action
0:01:13it's a lien sims welcome back to the
0:01:15comic book club hi i need to catch
0:01:17phrase fruit any did need to workshop
0:01:19that later you hear hello nerds sweeping
0:01:22the nation so I've heard that but I I
0:01:25feel like that's already a strong brand
0:01:27association is probably does this trip
0:01:29I'm very litigious he's got the backing
0:01:34of the future Batman behind him too so
0:01:35you gotta be careful there who yeah yeah
0:01:37and also joining us Sheamus others hello
0:01:40Lefty keys
0:01:41welcome back to the comic book club
0:01:43thank you
0:01:44uh was not long ago and actually well as
0:01:47the as the recordings go was very long
0:01:48ago that we were we were talking about
0:01:50miss marvel but that episode didn't post
0:01:53too long ago so it seems to the
0:01:55listeners like we were just here like a
0:01:57month ago
0:01:58the boys are back so this image comics
0:02:01the wicked in the divine this is a
0:02:02really interesting series wikipedia
0:02:05tells me it's largely influenced by pop
0:02:07music okay good thanks Wikipedia
0:02:12an ancient religions it well done that's
0:02:15it right so the idea here is that is
0:02:16that there are these gods who are
0:02:18reincarnated and they live for a couple
0:02:20of years and then they die and then go
0:02:22away for 90 years in it and it uh it
0:02:24repeats and so we are introduced to some
0:02:28but not all at first of the 12 people in
0:02:31the pantheon of reincarnated gods and
0:02:35then there's a there's a we learn about
0:02:38the system the they call the the
0:02:41what-is-it the the recurrence where they
0:02:45live and then they die they discover who
0:02:47they are sort of as teenagers or
0:02:50thereabouts-- thinking they're normal
0:02:52people up until then and then there's
0:02:53sort of picked and added to the the
0:02:55Pantheon and then they live for a couple
0:02:56of years and then they die they're told
0:02:58what is that they will some will love
0:02:59you someone hate you you'll be dead
0:03:00within two years and I and and so thats
0:03:04pleasure
0:03:04that's part of the story and you get
0:03:06that upfront and then there's also a
0:03:08kind of motivating plot thread that
0:03:09begins with some some deaths of people
0:03:13and people being framed potentially for
0:03:16murder
0:03:16so there's a mystery at its heart which
0:03:18actually remind reminded me a little bit
0:03:20of watchmen a little bit in that there's
0:03:24there's a rich world but there's also
0:03:26kind of a motivating did detective plot
0:03:30essentially at the center of it which i
0:03:32think is kind of interesting before we
0:03:34get into the plot though and blow the
0:03:37spoiler horn I wanted to see if any of
0:03:39you had some some kind of a big thoughts
0:03:41about what what this what this this
0:03:44story is and and what makes it
0:03:46interesting
0:03:47I will be honest and say up front that
0:03:49one of the things that sort of kept me
0:03:51going
0:03:52reading this was actually looking at the
0:03:54pretty pretty art and usually it's the
0:03:57other way for me usually it's the story
0:03:59that grabs me and sometimes the arts
0:04:01great and sometimes I sort of grit my
0:04:04teeth because I'm not enjoying the art
0:04:05but keep going because the story and
0:04:07this time it was a bit the opposite i
0:04:09felt like i was having to juggle a whole
0:04:12lot of characters all of a sudden but
0:04:16they were very pretty to look at so I
0:04:17kept reading agree with that and it's
0:04:21gorgeous i read it on my iPad so I
0:04:23didn't have to deal with like pesky paid
0:04:26wines in the way and and it's just like
0:04:29I found myself just stopping and staring
0:04:31at some of some of the the pages like
0:04:33the full pages because they were just
0:04:35gorgeous and so artfully done like I'm
0:04:38one of the earlier pages is kind of our
0:04:40our main character in an audience
0:04:43i'm in a performer onstage and trying
0:04:45not to be spoilery hand and just the way
0:04:48that they Illustrated that like you
0:04:50could see like you could see her but it
0:04:52wasn't like they put a spotlight on her
0:04:55and it was just beautiful beautiful art
0:04:57I had to read it a couple of times
0:04:58because i was really confused i had and
0:05:01as with most things with the
0:05:02incomparable I just kind of dive and I'm
0:05:04like yeah I'll do that and they came to
0:05:06dive in and do it and I don't have any
0:05:08expectations going in so I I didn't know
0:05:10what the pretext was they didn't know
0:05:14hey I had no knowledge and so it's like
0:05:16I have no idea what's happening and so I
0:05:20don't know if you're one of those
0:05:21readers and you're like this is really i
0:05:23have no clue go through and read it
0:05:25again because it's worth it a second and
0:05:26third time and and there's a little bit
0:05:30at the end so i bought mine on
0:05:31comixology and so they have kind of that
0:05:34that back material and they included
0:05:37kind of their promotional materials
0:05:38which which I could have used at the
0:05:40front of the book and think I would have
0:05:41been on board faster so if you've got
0:05:44like the first volume and go read the
0:05:47back of the book in circle around again
0:05:50because I found that really helpful
0:05:51after I found it
0:05:52yeah similarly i actually went hunting
0:05:55online this afternoon and evening
0:05:57looking for annotations like no like
0:05:59mice and men experience was I love
0:06:01Sandman but once i found annotations
0:06:03that explain the things i didn't get I
0:06:04loved it even more
0:06:05yeah so we're looking unfortunately
0:06:07there's not no unified nobody's doing
0:06:09like a really thrown unified annotation
0:06:12jetta found a couple of tumblers that
0:06:13have done some of the issues and that
0:06:15helped because especially references to
0:06:18the London geography this is set in
0:06:20England there were some things that I
0:06:23didn't pick up on just because I've
0:06:24never been there yet
0:06:25I was I was I was looking for that too i
0:06:27remember reading Alan Moore's League of
0:06:30Extraordinary Gentlemen and there's this
0:06:31website
0:06:32has like the undressing yes like panel
0:06:35by panel level like autopsy of what's in
0:06:37there and I was looking for that for
0:06:39this
0:06:40there's also one for jet for Kingdom
0:06:43Come that is meticulous panel by panel
0:06:45yeah this is gonna watch I 12 you and me
0:06:48from hell that that demands the
0:06:51annotations practically and I have to
0:06:52admit like Shannon like the first their
0:06:54first time I read through this i bought
0:06:57the trade the paper trades because I i
0:06:59do like being able to stick my thumb at
0:07:01like one part of the book and foot
0:07:02forward and flip backwards which is what
0:07:03i found myself doing a lot with the
0:07:06title pages that have that the title
0:07:09pages have like the little love you know
0:07:11the circles and circles that resembles
0:07:14my little circles up and I found myself
0:07:16flipping back and forth to figure out
0:07:18okay this is what symbol is this what's
0:07:20this
0:07:21I'm trying to match up with characters
0:07:22and anyway my mother and I pulled out my
0:07:24phone and began googling for annotations
0:07:27and Tumblr posts and things like that
0:07:28because it's so it's so deep that way
0:07:31on my second read through I i was
0:07:33reading picture the graphic the trades
0:07:35and I had my phone with Wikipedia open
0:07:37to look up like all the good God names
0:07:39because I was like there's clearly stuff
0:07:41in here that maybe I'm supposed to get
0:07:43that like where these characters in are
0:07:45getting and I am NOT getting and i'm so
0:07:47glad you brought up Sandman too because
0:07:49it was like that like the first time you
0:07:50read Sandman you can read it by itself
0:07:52like this is pretty cool and then you go
0:07:54back and you read it with annotations or
0:07:56with knowledge of all the characters
0:07:57he's bringing in the mythology that he's
0:07:59begun to reference even casually and
0:08:00throw away and I like what stance and
0:08:03men like oh my god the depth and the
0:08:05thought that went into that and this has
0:08:08a really similar field because as it as
0:08:10you're going through the beautiful
0:08:11beautiful art to see you know the
0:08:13character they've chosen to make look
0:08:14like Rihanna Rihanna the one that
0:08:16they've chosen to make a David Bowie
0:08:17prestige the one they've chosen as a
0:08:20Tory a MOS knock off you know and and
0:08:26you figure okay this all the baggage
0:08:27that those pop stars bring into it and
0:08:29then you combine it with the daddies are
0:08:31supposed to represent and it's just so
0:08:34smart and uh huh yeah that's a good word
0:08:37now to be there
0:08:38I think they give us just enough in the
0:08:41story without annotations I mean you get
0:08:44just enough to at least you can sort of
0:08:47place what's going on and they try to
0:08:49make the connections for you as far as
0:08:50like you know certain deities
0:08:51representing certain concepts that are
0:08:54important to the mystery for example but
0:08:56yeah if we have you read it through the
0:08:59first time and then go back the second
0:09:00time with some kind of support some kind
0:09:03of research it really it really does
0:09:06make it a lot better this book series
0:09:08also strikes me as sort of the other
0:09:11side of the coin to the other series
0:09:13that mckelvey and and killing have done
0:09:16which is phonogram and the premise
0:09:19behind that series is that there are a
0:09:21group of formerly young people and
0:09:23brands a formal young people because
0:09:25they were young during the Britpop
0:09:27explosion of the nineties and during
0:09:29that period they discovered that they
0:09:30were photo mancers I people who could
0:09:32use magic if they tapped into music in a
0:09:34very specific way and there's and the
0:09:38phonogram talks about music as a way of
0:09:41channeling the divine in changing
0:09:43reality and this series is about fandom
0:09:46as a way of being changed by the divine
0:09:49and then going out and changing reality
0:09:51around you and I thought okay there
0:09:53there minding the same time attic
0:09:55territory they're just coming out from a
0:09:56completely different angle and so it's
0:09:57kind of enjoyable to read the series
0:09:59back to back to to take a look at the
0:10:01different approaches and see what's the
0:10:03same which is that the creators of this
0:10:05unshakable conviction that music is is
0:10:07really a force above and beyond
0:10:09it may be created or channel by humans
0:10:11but they seem to regard music is
0:10:12something that like exists its own
0:10:14separate almost magical entity and then
0:10:17they take the reactions that people have
0:10:19to music very very seriously like they
0:10:22really get the idea of what it means to
0:10:25lose yourself in a creative work and to
0:10:27find yourself in the process of losing
0:10:29yourself and and I really enjoy that
0:10:31about this both this book and phonogram
0:10:33let's take a brief break to talk about
0:10:35something that's not in the pantheon
0:10:37although maybe it's in my personal
0:10:38pantheon because I sleep on it every
0:10:40night it's casper mattresses yes you
0:10:42guessed it
0:10:43casper mattresses are obsessively
0:10:44engineered american-made mattresses
0:10:46they're available shockingly fair price
0:10:48and now you can get fifty dollars off
0:10:51any mattress purchase by going to Casper
0:10:53calm / smell and using code smell that
0:10:57check out we all spend about a third of
0:10:59our lives sleeping some a little bit
0:11:01less some little bit more but really you
0:11:03would go insane if you didn't sleep so
0:11:06let's make sure you sleep on a good
0:11:08mattress so that you feel refreshed and
0:11:10active in the morning
0:11:12Casper has two different technologies
0:11:14that they put together for better nights
0:11:15and brighter days there's a latex foam
0:11:17and memory foam latex foam gives it a
0:11:19really pleasant feeling on the top and a
0:11:23memory foam you've got support
0:11:25underneath they call it just the right
0:11:26thing just the right balance my old bed
0:11:28felt like a trampoline I'd sit on a
0:11:29macat would be ejected from the other
0:11:31side of the bed this new bed it is
0:11:33really nice i've been using it for more
0:11:35than a year
0:11:36it's a Casper mattress and it is really
0:11:38great
0:11:39they've got a risk-free trial and return
0:11:40policy so if you don't like it I can't
0:11:42imagine that but if you don't like it
0:11:44you basically say hey Casper take this
0:11:46away and they give you your money back
0:11:47and you can do that not just for a week
0:11:49or a month but for up to a hundred days
0:11:52and it comes to you in a box it's
0:11:54delivered straight to your door from
0:11:55from I think it's ups doesn't really
0:11:58matter a partial service delivery person
0:12:00will bring it to your door you open it
0:12:01up it expands to its full size and if
0:12:04you don't like it you can send it back
0:12:05they will take it away at a store you
0:12:07might lay down for a minute or two and a
0:12:09salesperson will come over and say
0:12:10here's a sucker
0:12:11I mean hello sir how can I help you and
0:12:14and/or hello ma'am how can I help you
0:12:17and regardless you are laying there
0:12:18thinking is this comfortable i have no
0:12:21idea
0:12:21can I lay here for eight hours no well
0:12:23I'll give it a try it's not fun
0:12:25what I'm saying is I hate going to
0:12:27mattress stores the Casper you get to
0:12:29sleep on it literally sleep on it five
0:12:31hundred dollars for a twin up to 9 50
0:12:33for a king compared to industry averages
0:12:35that's actually an outstanding price
0:12:37point and you can get fifty dollars
0:12:38toward any mattress purchase by going to
0:12:40Casper calm / smell and using code smell
0:12:43at checkout terms and conditions apply
0:12:45thank you to catch her for sponsoring
0:12:47being comfortable
0:12:48well there's a lot here we should
0:12:50probably blow the spoiler horn and get
0:12:52into it in more detail gonna we're gonna
0:12:54we're going to do that right now
0:13:00spoiler horn probably a reference in
0:13:03some way to David Bowie because it isn't
0:13:06isn't everything Lucifer is definitely
0:13:08the thin white duke David Bowie and I
0:13:10read after David Bowie died i read an
0:13:11interview where they said that they at
0:13:13one point considered having all 12
0:13:15members of the Pantheon be different
0:13:17aspects of David Bowie because they said
0:13:19they could totally have done it
0:13:21wow it's they went another way but
0:13:25Lucifer is definitely David Bowie so so
0:13:29yeah this is funny that you mentioned
0:13:31the annotations and all that because
0:13:32this is this is the first book in a
0:13:33while where I felt like I was reminded
0:13:36of when i read read watchmen and I know
0:13:40that that is it's almost tired to have
0:13:42that be a touchdown but that was the
0:13:43first time I really read a comic and
0:13:44felt like I need to take notes and I
0:13:47wanted footnotes and I I knew that there
0:13:50were so many layers and that also I i
0:13:53was intrigued by the fact that there was
0:13:55a and continue telling there was a plot
0:13:57that was going to drag me through the
0:13:59story and it might not even be the point
0:14:01of the story as much as it is and so
0:14:03much work of fiction as the you know if
0:14:06the thing to drag drag me through from
0:14:09the beginning to the end and so in this
0:14:10case ya in this case we get the the
0:14:13death of the the judge when Lucifer
0:14:17snaps fingers and she's blame for it and
0:14:20says she didn't do it and it's a godly
0:14:22act so some other one of the gods must
0:14:25have done it and she's put in jail and
0:14:27it it leads to it at a chain of
0:14:29unfortunate events and creates this
0:14:32mystery i'm and and also there's a
0:14:34mystery of who the rest of the members
0:14:36of the Pantheon are some of them died
0:14:38some of them haven't yet been revealed
0:14:40and so there's that mystery happening to
0:14:42my even like that there's like the
0:14:44little mysteries about like we know that
0:14:46this is this this member of the Pantheon
0:14:48is this God but which version of that
0:14:50God is right ball followed the question
0:14:53which ball ball which one are you and
0:14:55he's like i identify with this one
0:14:57enough that wide
0:14:58maybe Bob who is sort of Kanye West's
0:15:01kind of as a path to say except except
0:15:03for David Bowie all the other pop music
0:15:06references are completely lost on me
0:15:08well well this Prince there's the one
0:15:09who looks exactly like prince who is
0:15:11yeah highness
0:15:12yeah okay yeah we um the wooden
0:15:15character is sort of the doctor okay
0:15:18yeah he's one of the Deaf bugs and I've
0:15:22read that the Emirati was actually sort
0:15:24of lawrence somewhere between florence
0:15:26welch and Stevie Nicks
0:15:28oh so you have a good point there I i
0:15:30had identified her as a Tori Amos sort
0:15:33of character because of the great hair
0:15:35the long red hair and the the abandoned
0:15:37with what she finds herself around on
0:15:38stage but I think Stevie Nicks is
0:15:41another although personally I feel like
0:15:43Stevie Nicks should be out of the
0:15:44Pantheon because she's a law unto
0:15:45herself
0:15:46ok but yeah but ok there were 31 more
0:15:53the rave dude the one who has my list
0:15:57yes Dionysus who has been alone inside
0:15:58his head for is emo be lets say yes
0:16:01thanks hehe look very young mobile yeah
0:16:03yeah that's looking at school care using
0:16:05up one of the joys and this is is is
0:16:07seeing these gods put in in these are
0:16:10putting putting a modern context and
0:16:12also the idea that if you had gods in
0:16:14the modern world they would be stars
0:16:17like literally there's a convention
0:16:19celebrating you and everything that
0:16:22they're stars the fandemonium that the
0:16:25fancy on right in San involved to that
0:16:28and so that's so great that you get this
0:16:30idea that if God's God's in a modern
0:16:32context for rock stars so i guess the
0:16:33reverse would be true that we treat rock
0:16:35stars like gods but here it's literally
0:16:37the gods are wrong stars enjoy that the
0:16:40Norns our golf like they're even work
0:16:42often the Morrigan yes yes with ragnarok
0:16:47roc a because it's a rock concert you
0:16:50see huh
0:16:53it's it's such it's such a pretty booked
0:16:57like you said it reminds me almost of
0:16:58the needle paintings of the nineteen
0:16:59eighties and one of those on the cup and
0:17:01why does it was a cover for for real
0:17:03which was one of the first albums i
0:17:05bought with my own money so i have that
0:17:06inextricable music artists och
0:17:09it's so smart um I love the the multiple
0:17:15mysteries that are unfolding around it
0:17:17I i wish that they would kind of explain
0:17:21more about the mechanisms of fandom like
0:17:22how do these kids keep finding these
0:17:24music happenings are you know is it
0:17:26through text is it through through
0:17:28bulletin boards it through word-of-mouth
0:17:30like there's like an undercurrent of
0:17:32social media technology happening but
0:17:35it's not really as much to the forefront
0:17:37as it could be
0:17:38yeah and that's that's a good point so
0:17:40what do we think about the SR main
0:17:42character is not one of the is not one
0:17:45of the gods or is she
0:17:48and it is is Laura she's she's a fan of
0:17:51the Pantheon and she becomes kind of
0:17:54swept up in the inner workings of the
0:17:56Pantheon she kinda guessed she used to
0:17:59be like a b-list celebrity in the yeah
0:18:01she's sort of like Kim Kardashian in the
0:18:03paris hilton day yeah yeah yeah so she
0:18:06she gets swept up into this and
0:18:08befriends Lucifer which is important
0:18:09because then when when Lucy is accused
0:18:12of blowing up the the judges head and
0:18:14all of that she becomes a key witness
0:18:18essentially 22 Lucifer's escape and then
0:18:21there's the suggestion that Lucifer sort
0:18:24of left something behind for her after
0:18:27we did we didn't mention there's uh what
0:18:31is a non k who is the who is sort of
0:18:33like the old she liked the Krone who is
0:18:36also like the controller of
0:18:37and-and-and-and-and watcher for the
0:18:41college thing into being right she calls
0:18:44them into being and then the way this
0:18:46series begins in the very first few
0:18:48panels of the very first issue use it
0:18:51well actually the very first time for a
0:18:53few first issue but like right beginning
0:18:55there's that the whole scene where the
0:18:58incarnations from the 1920s the Jazz Age
0:19:02yeah which is another moment of cultural
0:19:04people were there are there's this table
0:19:07there are eight schools one of which is
0:19:09in a dreadful state which is just a very
0:19:11violent data
0:19:12yeah and then there are four of them
0:19:14left and i found myself trying to figure
0:19:16out like who was who because we know
0:19:18that one of them was I'm they even give
0:19:20you a circle for the the
0:19:22with different icons then we get in the
0:19:24modern yawns like we know one of them is
0:19:26Minerva just because the ike the out
0:19:28like on a similar and one of them is
0:19:30Susanoo who is you know Japanese God who
0:19:33by the way was also featured in Sandman
0:19:35but like we don't get we don't get the
0:19:39neat one-to-one match up and I found
0:19:41myself wondering why these for how did
0:19:43she get them in one place and how does
0:19:45she manage to coerce them into killing
0:19:47themselves and so when you start with
0:19:49something like that and then you move to
0:19:51end these are pop stars with built-in
0:19:52expiration dates it gets like I love a
0:19:57good mr. like that because i just wanna
0:19:58find out why
0:19:59like how does she accept this whole what
0:20:01why do they agree to this what happens
0:20:03if a God fights back do you ever find
0:20:04out right because when we see the gods
0:20:07from the twenties the last thing they do
0:20:08is the three surviving member snap their
0:20:10fingers in their building there in blows
0:20:12up so the implication there is that
0:20:14their wings you're not going to live
0:20:16past two years the the you could read
0:20:19that as being you know they will expire
0:20:21naturally or something but that's not
0:20:23what we see we see them a lot of them
0:20:26are already dead and then the last three
0:20:27basically blow themselves up
0:20:29yeah for that was for that was more than
0:20:3112 tonight for ya
0:20:34what 21 to 34 so that you've got the
0:20:36fourth they've got the 44 beat authority
0:20:38starting with sort of procedures rock
0:20:40and roll when you think about it you
0:20:41know Dionysus Israel later
0:20:43yeah and I don't know how accurate this
0:20:45is this was on wikia some peeps and
0:20:48somebody started constructing wicked in
0:20:50divine annotations there they identified
0:20:53the african-american in the twenties as
0:20:56another ball and then the white-faced
0:20:59girl with the mask is another otsuka the
0:21:02makeup is a bit similar so we're Lord so
0:21:05we're looking at because the demand
0:21:07Susanoo based on the a light so parents
0:21:09apparently your summer reruns and then
0:21:11there's sometimes no one's get in the
0:21:13mix and so yes that the the flapper is
0:21:15Minerva and it's worth noting that in
0:21:17this incarnation this Minerva is dressed
0:21:19like one of the Beatles and she's like
0:21:2212 years old also worth mentioning is
0:21:25that Lucifer which is not Lucifer was
0:21:27actually and eleanor rigby yeah yeah
0:21:29because her parents were major beatles
0:21:31fans
0:21:32yeah yeah they're they're so I mean I i
0:21:35mentioned an Aikido is too
0:21:36say that in the end I what happens is
0:21:41that Laura is left with this sort of
0:21:42like trace of Lucifer and wants to know
0:21:45what happened to Lucifer because a
0:21:47non-key catches up with her after she's
0:21:48broken out of jail
0:21:49and-and-and-and blows her head off and
0:21:52so the mystery suddenly transforms into
0:21:54not who set up Lucifer but really like
0:21:57who like setup Lucifer and led to her
0:22:00death and then that since Laura on this
0:22:02kind of interesting journey it's it's
0:22:04like a I don't know how to describe it i
0:22:07think there's a word for it in fiction
0:22:09but it is she's taking a journey it's a
0:22:11little bit like it's a little bit like
0:22:12almost like the odyssey or something
0:22:14like candied where she is she's kind of
0:22:16traveling through the circles of these
0:22:18bizarre things that are happening
0:22:19culturally around all these different
0:22:22gods as she is trying to gather
0:22:24information about what's going on which
0:22:26i think is a really cool way to
0:22:27introduce us because we're throwing in
0:22:29without much of a map and then and then
0:22:31she does lead us through she gets in
0:22:34this very special position where she
0:22:35gets access than a normal person
0:22:37wouldn't and then starts to learn about
0:22:39what the is going on with the Pantheon
0:22:41and what's interesting about the whole
0:22:43access thing is she also has a frenemy i
0:22:47guess you'd say Cassandra who's the jerk
0:22:49who's the journalist the skeptical
0:22:51journalist names who's sort of angry
0:22:56about the access that fans get compared
0:22:58to journalists and has a real chip on
0:22:59her shoulder until Medicaid decides to
0:23:0220 your oh you're a loser and earlier or
0:23:05murder because I i know the D is
0:23:07actually brown stuff from Wales English
0:23:09anyway she's one of the Norns and her to
0:23:11cameraman get turned camera ladies get
0:23:13turned into the other Norns and part of
0:23:16me is wondering if comic con que can
0:23:19strategically deploy and defended
0:23:22deployed divinity where it suits her
0:23:24long her her long-term needs
0:23:27yeah that's kind of opened a question I
0:23:29think I don't know if later episode
0:23:30later issues will clarify that because
0:23:33on the one hand it does feel like she's
0:23:36you know able to sort of pick and choose
0:23:38we have the bit where Mary Marion
0:23:42becomes the more again and then is like
0:23:44an Cameron come can Cameron come to and
0:23:48wrong
0:23:49this bathroom it but on the other hand
0:23:50what she says to Cassandra sort of
0:23:52implies that she's got to like sort of
0:23:54hunt and discover them right
0:23:56mm what I'm wondering about is if these
0:23:59divinities come through or she's like
0:24:00okay you have a combination of traits
0:24:02that that can-can are our divinity
0:24:05compatible and here you go because the
0:24:08event that ends the second book and I
0:24:10realize we've done the spoiler horn but
0:24:12the event that is the second book with
0:24:13first she I'm so here you are in she
0:24:17basically indulges in a wish fulfillment
0:24:20exercise and then a murder and I thought
0:24:23to myself did you do that to disarm this
0:24:26person or this divinity on it
0:24:29her actions are very opaque and very
0:24:32strategic
0:24:32yeah it puts a lot of especially because
0:24:34she's kind of one of the like sources
0:24:37for a lot of like the rules of the world
0:24:39yeah and then those actions in that last
0:24:41issue it's like well how much of what we
0:24:44were told you I still a hundred percent
0:24:45right believe right yeah i mentioned
0:24:48this on when i mentioned i was reading
0:24:49this in our last comic book club that I
0:24:51feel like the ending of of the second
0:24:55trade is a brilliant cliffhanger because
0:24:58in those last few pages what happens the
0:25:01entire premise is called into question
0:25:03about how that happens you did this this
0:25:05character who have been sort of
0:25:06introduced to suggest you know she's
0:25:08kind of creepy but she sort of like has
0:25:10a lot of knowledge she drops enough
0:25:13knowledge for you to make you question
0:25:15exactly what her role is here and your
0:25:18main character is who we've established
0:25:20is not actually one of the Pantheon is
0:25:24told
0:25:24oh no you actually are the 13th member
0:25:26of the Pantheon and then is murdered so
0:25:29you've lost use the main character the
0:25:32entire premises questioned and that's
0:25:34the end of the second trade it's a it's
0:25:36shot great ending but it's certainly a
0:25:38great cliffhanger
0:25:39I also son is really slice of version of
0:25:42the Mary Sue trope as it were because
0:25:45you have a fan who is so involved and
0:25:47yeah this world is such wish fulfillment
0:25:49and then when they finally do get to
0:25:51become the minute they remember their
0:25:52fandom boom they're killed by the
0:25:54creator and I was funny because
0:25:58chip-chip warned me he actually read
0:25:59this before I did
0:26:01and he had it on his iPad and is not
0:26:03shining ipad pro and he told me before i
0:26:07started reading okay you cannot go
0:26:10george RR martin on this and throw the
0:26:12ipad against the wall when Josh don't
0:26:14know you've been and to be frank I
0:26:17didn't feel like doing that i have
0:26:19speculations since the chosen goddess
0:26:23identity for laura is Persephone and 470
0:26:27sort of has a cycle thing going on so
0:26:29you know I I didn't immediately feel the
0:26:32same way as I did with Martin when it
0:26:34actually didn't have to deal with Martin
0:26:36killing off characters even though i
0:26:37love how he will do that kind of thing
0:26:40it was because the second shoe that the
0:26:44first she was like in the first pages of
0:26:46the first book and it took three books
0:26:47to get to the second shoe and that's too
0:26:49long but that's totally off topic
0:26:51sorry mo but yeah but I was not as upset
0:26:56as chip expected me to be reading that
0:26:58and there are things that I really like
0:27:00and things that are important to me
0:27:01seemed to be important to you know the
0:27:04team like a like I'm glad I mean I would
0:27:08have been kinda cool to see all of the
0:27:09Gods is different iterations of bowie
0:27:11but I'm glad that they went another way
0:27:13and that they've got you know different
0:27:16genders and different races and
0:27:17different you know they've got a a gay
0:27:19character there's a transgender
0:27:21character like and it's not a big deal
0:27:23like when Cassandra is revealed to be
0:27:25trans it's just like and you know Lucy's
0:27:29like oh I said this thing to hurt you
0:27:30and she's like it did and that's like
0:27:32it's not about my god and I really
0:27:35really loved that
0:27:36yeah that's a real big strength to the
0:27:38books in my opinion and my trans friends
0:27:41love it and i absolutely love it so it's
0:27:44not and I feel confident and like okay
0:27:46this is representation done right and so
0:27:49that can do it gives me more motivation
0:27:51to continue reading to you know it's um
0:27:53I i think it's hot it's a hard read i
0:27:57would six against for somebody for
0:27:59somebody i was thinking about you while
0:28:00I was reading it because because moline
0:28:02because as a relatively new comics
0:28:04reader it is dense it is that's why I
0:28:06kept coming back to watch men is it was
0:28:08the same thing where I feel like every
0:28:10time I read it i'm noticing something
0:28:12different and that's definitely how it
0:28:13was the first
0:28:14billion times i read watchmen where
0:28:16there's what's the other the words on
0:28:18the page and then there's the art and
0:28:19then there's the things that are
0:28:20embedded in the art and they actually
0:28:22mean something they're not just there to
0:28:25make a pretty background they are things
0:28:27that will take you to interesting
0:28:29shadings of meaning of the story if you
0:28:31were looking at them so it really it
0:28:35survives multiple readings and in fact
0:28:37almost demands multiple readings and but
0:28:40if that does make it dents and it isn't
0:28:42it isn't very welcoming
0:28:44i would say you suit sort of have to go
0:28:46with it and hope hope to catch up later
0:28:48and admitting that I think it attaches
0:28:51to the plot to where Laura until she
0:28:54kind of falls all the way in and get at
0:28:57and you get your bearings a little bit
0:28:59which of course is swept away from you
0:29:00at the end of volume to it you know you
0:29:03are you are lost in the world because
0:29:05she doesn't have enough information and
0:29:07she's really are members into our
0:29:08representative in this world so it's a
0:29:10tough night I mean it's it is
0:29:12challenging and dense you know in a way
0:29:14that I'm not a lot of comics that ivory
0:29:16actually I feel like I hadn't been kind
0:29:18of challenge this way by a comment on a
0:29:20long time I was kind of having a
0:29:22reminders of when I used to reach a ton
0:29:24of vertigo stuff and it really helped
0:29:26like that but matically and density
0:29:29I you know one of my favorite comics is
0:29:31a hundred bullets and every time a new
0:29:34volume would come out i would reread all
0:29:36the previous volume again in preparation
0:29:39for reading it so like I've read volume
0:29:40one of a hundred bullets more than 13
0:29:42times because they're 13 right and like
0:29:46that's a comic I love it's not a comic I
0:29:47recommend to a lot of people because i
0:29:49don't think it has broad appeal but it's
0:29:50a super-dense um but I mean it's nice to
0:29:54be challenged by but it was also like
0:29:56this is this is an unfamiliar feeling
0:29:58like I don't know if I dislike this but
0:29:59this is you know this isn't something
0:30:01comics have really pushed on me in a
0:30:02while you're right that this is a very
0:30:04vertical feeling read though because it
0:30:07is it celebrates it celebrates the
0:30:09culture that is not necessarily
0:30:11mainstream and that culture has its own
0:30:12rules and its own rewards and it makes
0:30:16the argument that people who are called
0:30:18people who choose that culture are still
0:30:20inherently worthy of you no interest in
0:30:22love and respect and all those other
0:30:24things as well they're not just people
0:30:25who look weird have strange interest
0:30:27really like and like I mean in some ways
0:30:29it's it like there's some stuff like
0:30:31going back likes that's in that Sandman
0:30:33didn't stories that was kind of like
0:30:34revolutionary this time that feels like
0:30:37you know some of it is great and it
0:30:39doesn't still holds up and some of it is
0:30:40like kind of very dated in terms of like
0:30:42the society in terms of when it was
0:30:44written so it's nice to see something
0:30:45you know that's that's taking on some of
0:30:47those those attitudes that you know in a
0:30:49more modern way right and my style for
0:30:53reading comic books because I'm a I'm a
0:30:55reader first and foremost rate is I go
0:30:57through and I read the words and then I
0:30:58go through a second time and I i read
0:31:00the words and look at the art and I'm
0:31:02not a very patient reader just so i
0:31:06think that was i I actually don't know
0:31:10how much the art helps in like the the
0:31:13conceptual things and as you're going
0:31:16along but and it's I mean it does
0:31:20definitely add depth to the story and
0:31:23but yeah i was i was confused a lot that
0:31:28yes i have really make their points when
0:31:30I was confused and had to reread a
0:31:32couple of pages
0:31:33yeah yeah and i think i'm still confused
0:31:35yeah together certainly things that
0:31:37still need to be answered together and I
0:31:38think you know some of that I think
0:31:40you're supposed to be confused some of
0:31:41it I don't know but I mean depends on a
0:31:44stick the landing right yeah yeah we
0:31:46should say that they they have said that
0:31:48this is there is a story the this is
0:31:51closed-ended somewhere between 30 and 60
0:31:54issues you know I think that's not a
0:31:56professional comics professionals
0:31:58admitting that the story can sometimes
0:32:00get away from you a little bit mob or it
0:32:03becomes unprofitable one of those are
0:32:05approaching it with the stress in ski
0:32:06method yeah exactly right we got no
0:32:08wheels will spread our the middle and an
0:32:11end or contracting as nice as we go
0:32:14Oh God releases thinking of the end of
0:32:17terrace
0:32:19oh so what people think of the of the
0:32:23i'm going to ask about the sex and i'm
0:32:26going to ask about the gore so let's
0:32:27start with the gore what what people
0:32:29feel about the heads exploding and the
0:32:32neck with without a head on it and on
0:32:36the cover of the last issue of vol.2 too
0:32:40much
0:32:40not part of that part of the story I I
0:32:43thought it was I noticed that it was
0:32:45kind of unflinching and its depiction of
0:32:47people getting stuff blown-up
0:32:49unflinching yes but this this is where I
0:32:53think Mack all these art helps it at
0:32:58least personally for me
0:33:00um I did not think it was nearly as gory
0:33:04as it genuinely was because the art is
0:33:07so clean
0:33:08the art is so smooth it did not it did
0:33:12not bother me as much as it might have
0:33:14say somebody actually filming this or
0:33:17another person style of art might do
0:33:20um so yeah that the gore did not bother
0:33:22me nearly as much as it could have
0:33:24yeah I I kind of agree i we have been
0:33:27watching the clone wars and they're
0:33:30there have been things that have
0:33:31bothered me more in the Clone Wars then
0:33:33like seeing someone's head explode and
0:33:36the panel where the judges had exploded
0:33:38as a little like that yeah I was behind
0:33:40I'm like I maybe could have done without
0:33:43that but it's not a realistic thing so
0:33:46it's my that it's its stylized
0:33:50yeah if it were more like like The
0:33:52Walking Dead sometimes when i read i
0:33:54have trouble looking at some of those
0:33:56panels and unfortunately it's not in
0:33:58color so that helps a lot
0:34:00I had stopped reading the walking dead
0:34:02because of the way they depicted a lot
0:34:03of the stuff we actually yeah I mean
0:34:05it'sit's graphic and it's gritty I'm
0:34:07trying to remember now i can't remember
0:34:08the name of the series that's American
0:34:11vampire you been stealing your whining
0:34:14love this story but some of the art I
0:34:16was just like who don't miss the the
0:34:19walking dead i would i would say was
0:34:22when it's ugly it's like it when it's
0:34:25was graphic it's ugly and women in the
0:34:27divine is not something I would ever
0:34:29call ugly even when it's wrong laughing
0:34:31it's sort of beautifully graphic but it
0:34:34still can be gross and unpleasant and
0:34:36they're definitely panels in this that I
0:34:37that I find kind of yucky but that
0:34:40doesn't mean that I don't think that
0:34:42they're beautifully rendered in a way
0:34:44that that the walking dead you know it
0:34:46was gross stuff render dug in an ugly
0:34:48way I thought a lot of the time now i
0:34:51should add that to my all-time favorite
0:34:53series
0:34:54are the authority and preacher oh so my
0:34:58so my tolerance for how much gore is
0:35:03acceptable in a comic book me a little
0:35:06maybe a little bit hot wire for the rest
0:35:08of this but um I think in the context of
0:35:15this book the gore is shocking because
0:35:18I'm the art is so beautiful and this is
0:35:22not a particularly gritty world you know
0:35:25I mean even when you're in Subway's it
0:35:27is still like you're focusing on how
0:35:30beautifully composed each panel is and
0:35:32how like there's a lot of that there
0:35:35they do a lot of visual imagery that
0:35:36weighs on some very romantic notions of
0:35:39what it's like to be in a train station
0:35:40what it's like to be in a darkened and
0:35:42empty public space and so because it's
0:35:46so beautiful and so meticulously
0:35:48composed and so romantic that it's feels
0:35:52jarring when you do see like a headless
0:35:54stuff neck because like oh I don't
0:35:56recall that in any of the millions of
0:35:59rock videos i mean line on MTV or any of
0:36:02the tumblers I follow or anything like
0:36:03that just like oh you know whereas like
0:36:06if I saw a shot like this authority I'd
0:36:08be like well Frank Quitely is going easy
0:36:10on us this month so that's our what
0:36:16about the what about this sort of like a
0:36:18not just sex but but all of the section
0:36:22hedonism this is about God's and a
0:36:24Pantheon and famously you know I mean we
0:36:27we have Dionysus in here for pete's sake
0:36:29right with their there so I'm curious i
0:36:31really i also want to mention in
0:36:33particular the rave issue which is is
0:36:38all bright colors and laura gets really
0:36:43kind of candy car caught up in it and
0:36:45it's terrifying ultimately but but a
0:36:48very interesting in a in a different way
0:36:51there's also a scene that we see very
0:36:54briefly of a of an orgy
0:36:56that's being put on by one of the Gods
0:36:59to so i'm just i'm curious what people
0:37:00what people think about how that stuff
0:37:02is portrayed in this if you've got any
0:37:03thoughts about that i partly because I
0:37:06think so early
0:37:07on its kind of established that one of
0:37:10the things that these reincarnated gods
0:37:12are doing is having all the sex all the
0:37:15time that that it didn't surprise me and
0:37:19therefore I was just I kept reading I
0:37:23don't remember being phased by by it
0:37:26terribly much mean they're teenagers
0:37:28with two years to live there was sex is
0:37:30consensual and I'm a lot less bothered
0:37:32by that I was by the first by one of the
0:37:35first few instances of sex is on Sandman
0:37:37for example where it's much more
0:37:39disturbing especially the 24 hours in
0:37:41the diner episode issue
0:37:43yeah oh yeah he's like oh my god yeah
0:37:47yeah yeah I'm you know you know and and
0:37:50sex drugs and rock and roll
0:37:52yeah i mean that that's definitely the
0:37:55theme here
0:37:56no I mean I think the thing that bothers
0:37:57me more than anything else if i'm going
0:37:59to read is is the the creeping more to
0:38:02is the fact that you have a god that
0:38:05people are fighting who is a 12 year old
0:38:07child and everybody is is sort of
0:38:09ignoring the fact that she's going to be
0:38:10dead before she's 15 and interrupting
0:38:13her parents are rope making as much
0:38:14money as possible or their hundred
0:38:16dollars you get a personal blessing
0:38:17member yeah it's but I get the the her
0:38:19fellow gods are protective of her
0:38:22yeah i think there's one taking care of
0:38:24his best again
0:38:25yeah and she's aware that's the first
0:38:27thing we hear from her and she's you
0:38:29know in and as they take Laura back to
0:38:33kinda meet some of these gods when
0:38:35Lucy's in jail
0:38:36she's like I'm gonna be dead before you
0:38:38know what I'm 14
0:38:39you don't like the first first
0:38:41introduction we get to her those are
0:38:43some of the first words out of her mouth
0:38:45yeah that's the interesting thing about
0:38:48this setup right is that the idea is
0:38:50that there are people but they're also
0:38:51gods and there's that duality there in
0:38:53the cod portion of them with their
0:38:55unclear right whether they're always
0:38:57gods and just are wide awake into it or
0:38:59whether they're there or is this more
0:39:01sinister where they are sort of chosen
0:39:03and the God essence is going to pour
0:39:05into them and print them out after two
0:39:06years the gods are immortal and they'll
0:39:09come back in 90 years but those people
0:39:11in this lion are gone and do do they
0:39:14have the ability to steal years from
0:39:16each other do they
0:39:18yeah well the that this is the thing is
0:39:20I'm so
0:39:21guys we haven't seen the phrase human
0:39:22sacrifice put into context yet because
0:39:24that's what these children effectively
0:39:26are is they're human sacrifices to this
0:39:29notion that the divinity is supposed to
0:39:31touch everybody around them and that's
0:39:34how the world gets changes people come
0:39:35away from their experience with the
0:39:36ground changed it ripples out one of the
0:39:41things we're talking about now I promise
0:39:43this is not spoiler but one of the the
0:39:45the things you're talking about with out
0:39:47whether or not these people are like the
0:39:50effect of being a god on the person like
0:39:52there's a there's an issue in the third
0:39:54trade that goes into that in
0:39:55excruciating detail and it's a beautiful
0:39:57and horrible issue help the same time
0:39:59and like I had to go right I i had to
0:40:01like put down that the book and
0:40:02decompress after reading it but it's
0:40:04like oh my god this is so smart
0:40:06let's hide it so you won't have that to
0:40:10look forward to
0:40:10i guess.i guess well we'll get there i
0:40:13wanted i want to mention i thought it
0:40:15was really interesting but the at the at
0:40:19the convention there is a panel that a
0:40:22former girlfriend of Woden is on MH and
0:40:26he walks in and basically tempts her to
0:40:30come back into his circle and is it but
0:40:34she has to admit that everything
0:40:35terrible she's saying about him is a lie
0:40:37and then he and then he makes the his
0:40:41little pink suit thing evaporate and
0:40:44walks out on her and that publicly yeah
0:40:47that's a really important is really
0:40:49interesting characters here we don't see
0:40:50his face hehe implies that he's been
0:40:52horribly horribly scarred and and can't
0:40:56be right upon and he's also the one who
0:40:59is sort of like shamelessly just as
0:41:00building a harem and wants to have sex
0:41:03with as many women as he can before he
0:41:05dies
0:41:06yeah again and plus he doesn't seem to
0:41:08be doing much in the way of performing
0:41:10he's like the Builder he's the one that
0:41:12anon k comes to when he's helped me he
0:41:16helped do things but he's not like
0:41:17front-and-center the way some of the
0:41:19others are no it's just it's an
0:41:22interesting character and he does not
0:41:23seem like a particularly pleasant person
0:41:26Ellen on any level but he is shiny and
0:41:29you know and then
0:41:31I i mean i think yeah I i think that's
0:41:34that's interesting too that he is this
0:41:35very notably interesting-looking
0:41:37character kind of more traditional comic
0:41:40booky looking than anybody else in the
0:41:43pantheon
0:41:44but he's all he's kinda awful staff from
0:41:48he's very easy that daft punk where the
0:41:50identity play as part of the mistake
0:41:52that goes with it but he's also don't
0:41:54need submit yeah everybody hates him and
0:41:56fearsome and they're fascinated by him
0:41:58yeah I dr. doom seen some more of a
0:42:00sense of humor about himself than this
0:42:01I suppose that's true it sounds very
0:42:04unpleasant but the horribly scarred and
0:42:06wearing a cool outdoor thing fits when
0:42:08you with that this this this series
0:42:10makes me wish I were more of a music
0:42:12nerd because i have a feeling if I were
0:42:14I would be just tripping out over what
0:42:17what the writers are saying about
0:42:19specific musicians with her choosing to
0:42:20depict or what God through their
0:42:22choosing to to parent channel with at
0:42:25the same time I feel like I'm missing a
0:42:27dimension of the book because I'm not
0:42:29big into either
0:42:31well I mean I like music but i'm not a
0:42:32huge music there and I don't have a lot
0:42:33of music insider lure gospel my back
0:42:36pocket and that's the one area where I
0:42:38feel like I'm missing out on a facet of
0:42:40this this experience
0:42:41mm do you think it's intentional that
0:42:43like that that all the fan group seemed
0:42:45I mean not exclusively but are primarily
0:42:47young people I wondered if that was just
0:42:51like Laura's view on things or or some
0:42:53kind of commentary there because that's
0:42:55my big question is like that we now are
0:42:57in a world where the gods come back but
0:42:59like but everybody else is still like
0:43:01going to work and stuff it's just
0:43:02college kids who are like cutting class
0:43:03they bring that out a bit with some the
0:43:06character that one of the likely 200
0:43:09viously one of the ranking rocks yeah
0:43:11this gentleman you know being all
0:43:13cynical about yeah you kids today are
0:43:15the kids today don't understand or
0:43:17appreciate arm so you've got at least
0:43:21one character voicing that kind of thing
0:43:23and of course we know we've got a few
0:43:26adults that show up whether it's the
0:43:29police officers or firemen or the those
0:43:32sort of people you know they're trying
0:43:34to treat these kids as kids and then
0:43:36somebody you know somebody finally tell
0:43:39somebody else look the these these are
0:43:41dangerous
0:43:41these are not within your experience
0:43:44back
0:43:44off so you know even even Laura's
0:43:48parents it's like you know they're these
0:43:49like super well-meaning super supportive
0:43:51to the point where she's trying to
0:43:54repeal just to make them mad because
0:43:56they never get mad so yeah that it does
0:44:00seem extremely tightly focused on the
0:44:02youth generation and and what adults are
0:44:06there are not very helpful
0:44:09it's like a nun case the most mother
0:44:11figure that prompted that pantheon has
0:44:14because you know every time one of them
0:44:16you want every time she wakes up one of
0:44:17them I missed you
0:44:19and then when anyway I love you but
0:44:22you're gonna die no more wire hangers
0:44:24and I'm to know more
0:44:26this is this is for your own goal I i
0:44:30think i was actually thinking fan
0:44:32dynamic something Shannon said there i
0:44:33was reminded and Iago Erica's not here
0:44:35I'm gonna bring up doctor who only to
0:44:37say if you've got something like this
0:44:39where you've got people who are not the
0:44:41kids of the of the current generation
0:44:43right
0:44:44obviously there's going to be a
0:44:45subculture of the Pantheon that is a
0:44:48residue of the last appearance they made
0:44:50and although all the people from men
0:44:51have died out there is apparently enough
0:44:53knowledge about this idea you know that
0:44:56cassandra is able to research it that
0:44:57you know people who are just old enough
0:45:00of it right yeah their professors and
0:45:02research previous you know the nineteen
0:45:04twenties and earlier so but but when
0:45:06they appear
0:45:07it's like it's not for them it's like
0:45:09it's for the current generation and it's
0:45:11a new generation of fans essentially and
0:45:14i think i think that is something that
0:45:16is touched on and in this at least a
0:45:18little bit is this idea that there's a
0:45:19schism between like you know yeah it's
0:45:22great that you studied this and all that
0:45:24but these are these are the new ones and
0:45:26this is our this is our pop music that
0:45:29you know this is our fandom we you know
0:45:31we're the ones who are here and that you
0:45:34know your interests in the pantheon but
0:45:35you know you're not part of our group
0:45:38your euro notes that's the perfect
0:45:40metaphor for music I mean every every
0:45:42generation has the music that you know
0:45:45they grew up we know whether it's he
0:45:48knows that you 13
0:45:49that's their music and later music
0:45:52business good this is a theme they mind
0:45:54and phonogram to is it something and
0:45:57this is like one of the center
0:45:58no promises a phonogram is as you get
0:45:59older your music loses the cultural
0:46:02power and the cultural currency it once
0:46:04had and you know this is why is it this
0:46:08is why I feel like you kind of have to
0:46:09both but both books like either in
0:46:11conjunction with one another or one and
0:46:13then the other is because phonogram is
0:46:15also about the magic of music and how
0:46:17it's highly specific to certain
0:46:19generations and certain societal
0:46:21conditions and I like honestly I like it
0:46:25here that its young people because um it
0:46:29goes down to people who are you know
0:46:31teens and young adults using music as a
0:46:33way to figure out who they are and to
0:46:35forge their tribal identity and to forge
0:46:37their cultural identity and be able to
0:46:38say yeah this is when i turned into a
0:46:40person with my own thoughts and likes
0:46:42and dislikes and this is the soundtrack
0:46:43that listen to while i did it and the
0:46:45idea of having a divinity that helps
0:46:47Midwife that process I think that's a
0:46:48really interesting idea and kind of wrap
0:46:52it and kind of radical i look forward to
0:46:53seeing you know that thing that I look
0:46:56forward to seeing as I'd love to see an
0:46:57issue where you have somebody who lived
0:46:59out the most of the span their lives
0:47:01between the periods of divinities like
0:47:03do they feel like they've missed out or
0:47:04are they i was just going to say
0:47:05radically different like what is what is
0:47:08their experience a person had like
0:47:09compared to somebody who is going
0:47:12through this in the UK which also raises
0:47:16from another question like why is this
0:47:17phenomenon just isolated to Britain is
0:47:19it because the the Raiders are good i
0:47:21don't think i think they make the
0:47:23reference that pops up other places
0:47:25right does yes there's us there was a
0:47:26South American one and this one is what
0:47:30is Skip sometimes that bothered me to
0:47:32that it seemed to be focused so tightly
0:47:35on not just England but London and you
0:47:37know all of these divinities or in
0:47:39London and yeah there was that one brief
0:47:41mention about South America although if
0:47:43i remember correctly that was like that
0:47:45one of the deities participating at some
0:47:48point was from South America was from
0:47:51South American mythology but not
0:47:52necessarily that that that this
0:47:56phenomenon happened there so that's
0:47:58unclear to me and when we meet and the
0:48:02one who looks like Prince and bad name's
0:48:03Donna and Donna yet so when we meet him
0:48:07and he talks about
0:48:10it's good to see you again Laura and
0:48:12she's like oh you remember me from you
0:48:14know a couple months ago a couple weeks
0:48:17ago and he's like no I remember you from
0:48:18a year ago and at the at the conference
0:48:24and she was angry instead of because one
0:48:27of the panelists at this panel she was
0:48:29attending was going on about how great
0:48:31like this generation doesn't deserve
0:48:34this and maybe this will be one of the
0:48:36times where it skips a generation or
0:48:38maybe it'll be like somewhere else and
0:48:40and they mentioned like other I think
0:48:43China and South America or something
0:48:45so there's there's an allusion to it
0:48:48being more and more widespread thing and
0:48:52not necessarily consistent thing either
0:48:54and I don't know what plays into that
0:48:56I'm coming to pass
0:48:58i also don't know how much of this is is
0:49:00is British comics culture in a way cuz
0:49:03you think about like I'm thinking about
0:49:05the authority in the premise that every
0:49:07hundred years of the beginning of the
0:49:09century the earth gives birth to
0:49:10quote-unquote century babies who
0:49:13performed the third immunity system with
0:49:15next 100 years and they are the spirits
0:49:17of the technology that will transform
0:49:19culture which is why you have Jenny
0:49:21sparks the beading 20th century and
0:49:23Jenny quantum the beginning 21st and
0:49:25this seems to be something that's pretty
0:49:27not peculiar but I've noticed a lot with
0:49:30British comic writers is they do enjoy
0:49:33cyclical themes and I don't know if it's
0:49:34because you get raised on a diet of
0:49:36Arthurian legends or what but this seems
0:49:39to be part of it to where there's this
0:49:41whole implication that it's cyclical and
0:49:42it's a culture and it's paired with
0:49:44cultural upheaval and I don't think he's
0:49:48I again I wonder if nationality plays
0:49:50into this and the reason why is the
0:49:52largest is because we're approaching it
0:49:54from a really American perspective where
0:49:56you know the answer has always been one
0:49:58in doubt find a frontier as opposed to
0:50:02if you stay on this island long enough
0:50:04Arthur will come back I've got a million
0:50:08hail from lots of British haha that it
0:50:12while they're going to also tell us but
0:50:13we just completely missed all of the
0:50:14important British references that are in
0:50:16the
0:50:16that probably we probably did yeah I
0:50:19hope you to one of the Americans they
0:50:21always wanted one of the annotations I
0:50:23saw mentioned how the building that
0:50:26hosts the convention that apparently
0:50:28there's some cable car thing now that
0:50:31you can like right across the Thames and
0:50:32it's not there and the person annotating
0:50:36it was wondering if it was because the
0:50:37the Member of Parliament behind it was a
0:50:41really big in a jerk
0:50:42so who knows that's because there are no
0:50:45gods in the actual London and so it's
0:50:47obviously a different world then yeah um
0:50:51anything more about the wicked and the
0:50:54divine i'm looking forward to reading
0:50:55vol 3 which I have not read yet because
0:50:57i was saving it until after this podcast
0:50:59so I wouldn't like violate the the end
0:51:03spoil the results in some way so I want
0:51:07is sitting on my iPad ready for me I
0:51:10gave in after least was encouraging that
0:51:12you know after I'm finished second so
0:51:14yes i-i've read the the three volumes
0:51:16and i'm probably going to dig up the
0:51:18issues that are currently out as
0:51:20Singleton's you listen to lisa lisa is a
0:51:22nibbler she doesn't think it all started
0:51:24tonight that is what we do
0:51:26yeah yeah I'm really enjoying it i don't
0:51:30know if it's a comic that I would
0:51:31recommend to a lot of people um as much
0:51:33as other comics that I won't show up to
0:51:35two people about so I like it but I
0:51:38don't know if this is one that I'm gonna
0:51:39like be running running around hitting
0:51:41people over the head with it
0:51:42yeah this one it rewards being smart it
0:51:45rewards being knowledgeable and you know
0:51:47not everybody looks at comics for that I
0:51:49thought you're gonna say something about
0:51:50me know what we said about it being
0:51:55dense and looking at footnotes and all
0:51:57that is not what i would certainly have
0:51:59I think you've got to be a well I i did
0:52:03the interesting what a lien has to say
0:52:05about this and she already touched on a
0:52:06little bit i would recommend this much
0:52:07more to somebody who is a bit more of a
0:52:09veteran comic book reader who is kind of
0:52:12a confident in their ability to dive
0:52:14into something super dense this is the
0:52:17other the ramp up on this is a is pretty
0:52:19or somebody is a music nerd and we can
0:52:21take some more references you just
0:52:23really misses vertigo because you're
0:52:25such a dude this is such a vertical book
0:52:28and I think back to all well the
0:52:30this one that I felt like I had to do
0:52:31this much homework on and I mean
0:52:33homework in a good way was the unwritten
0:52:35mi querido yeah yeah yeah yeah and
0:52:38that's another one like oh god oh god oh
0:52:40god this makes me feel really bad for
0:52:42for AP testing out of all of my
0:52:44literature requirements in college
0:52:45because I could have used another
0:52:46literature class but if you like to hear
0:52:48us talk about the unwritten by the way
0:52:50you can tune into in comfortable episode
0:52:52number two way back in awhile way that
0:52:56matters to me is that episode about like
0:52:59all of comics was that back when we
0:53:01recover yet so always about it was about
0:53:02the unwritten although i think we
0:53:04descended into discussions of vertigo in
0:53:06general at that point but yeah but it
0:53:07was very specifically the unwritten was
0:53:09what we were reading which is good
0:53:11that's a good that's a good comic I I
0:53:12like a lot of my carry stuff only image
0:53:14comics is kind of turning into the
0:53:16vertigo of this decade could be a lean
0:53:19so overall would you as a as I a newer
0:53:22comic reader would you steer people away
0:53:24from with the wicked the divine if they
0:53:26weren't confident in their comic reading
0:53:28skills or what is it ok i don't know
0:53:30honestly i I just I think it depends
0:53:33upon the person I i wish i could say
0:53:35yepper note but i think and i think that
0:53:39if it's a person who is patient and
0:53:41willing to go back and read it again and
0:53:43mr maybe is better at me than me than
0:53:46looking at the artists they go or
0:53:48whatever then you know definitely go for
0:53:50it and it's definitely not as light as
0:53:54you know getting into marvel comic books
0:53:56where you can just have to dive in and
0:53:57read and not you know like Miss Marple I
0:53:59love miss marvel I don't have to think a
0:54:01whole lot when i read the smartphone but
0:54:04but what you want yeah great unless I
0:54:06want you and you definitely can't and
0:54:08but with this it was it was just like I
0:54:11need to be in the mood for something
0:54:12more and intellectual I don't think
0:54:17that's quite the right word but you know
0:54:19just just need to sit down and think and
0:54:21be able to pay attention it's not
0:54:23something I can do half way and so I
0:54:25think that would be my criteria more
0:54:27than you know whether their veteran
0:54:28reader of comics or not or look inside
0:54:31yourself cereal part of the Pantheon and
0:54:34it's true then continue and and read the
0:54:40weaker than the divine
0:54:41any other final thoughts about about
0:54:43this this comic before we remove i'm
0:54:46going to be a ridiculous geek and say I
0:54:48now have a second favorite letter in
0:54:51comics the first is talk wine and
0:54:53clayton cows is now my second favorite
0:54:55yes he's doing great work yeah the
0:54:57different styles here and there he
0:54:59fluctuates between who's speaking and
0:55:02home and Laura's thoughts versus the
0:55:05actual narration and you can always hide
0:55:08it so i noticed i mean i usually don't
0:55:10notice lettering but you know I noticed
0:55:12Todd klein and Sandman and other works
0:55:14he's done yet and I was noticing Clayton
0:55:16cowls and his work all the way through
0:55:18I've actually put down books because I
0:55:20couldn't stand the lettering so I end
0:55:22with you on this I appreciate that i
0:55:24just wanted to talk about the art just a
0:55:26second more because there are so many
0:55:28different not the different styles but
0:55:31that coloring I think rather than the
0:55:33art is what i'm looking more like if you
0:55:35look at one of the first and one of the
0:55:38first panels in the second volume is and
0:55:43kind of like a flashback 21 when Lucy
0:55:46dies in the art style and that it's
0:55:48white with like neon colored lines and
0:55:53the art style can on those panels like
0:55:55where the judges again the judges had
0:55:57explodes
0:55:58you know it's it's different and it's
0:56:01and it's a really interesting contrast
0:56:04that I'm not seeing and maybe this is
0:56:06the vertigo style that you're talking
0:56:07about but it's a contrast that I'm not
0:56:08seeing in kind of superhero comics that
0:56:11i'm reading or you know again the what
0:56:12black-and-white walking dead you know
0:56:14volumes so I don't know it just never
0:56:17really loved it
0:56:18yeah I think you're right on that yeah
0:56:20the art that they are doing things with
0:56:22art to emphasize what's going on in the
0:56:25plot what's going on with the characters
0:56:27like we mentioned with the Dionysus
0:56:29issue of just how everything is so
0:56:30cotton candy pink um during the rave and
0:56:33everything is going on that just um
0:56:35really typifies what's what's happening
0:56:37in the story but something that you made
0:56:41reminded me of there's an issue in the
0:56:43second volume and you may be the one
0:56:44you're talking about where they actually
0:56:46deliberately made most of the story by
0:56:49recycling previous panels they actually
0:56:52like went and scavenger hunted
0:56:54through all of those previous things and
0:56:57made almost the entire issue with no
0:57:00brand new art which was really
0:57:02interesting
0:57:03yeah i just i think that it's I think
0:57:05it's great let's uh let's move on and
0:57:08talk about if there are other comics
0:57:10that you have read recently this is a
0:57:12shot in the dark but it usually gets
0:57:13usually Lisa tells us things we have to
0:57:15read
0:57:16let's just call this Lisa tells us what
0:57:18to read but if there is what what if
0:57:20there are any other comics are reading i
0:57:21would love to hear about Alisa what-what
0:57:24do what are we reading next
0:57:26what do you tell what do you really
0:57:27liking now ok i just finished unbeatable
0:57:31schoolgirl volumes 1 & 2 & comment and
0:57:36then I read them to my daughter and
0:57:37she's 5 and she now love squirrel girl
0:57:41passionately like sleeps with the sleeps
0:57:44with the the issues under her under her
0:57:46pillow and the reason i would recommend
0:57:49this to both adults and as a family
0:57:51friendly book is because the way the
0:57:53book is structured is you can read to
0:57:55kids and it's just as very cheery
0:57:59positive joyful book about being a young
0:58:04woman who loves being in college and
0:58:07loves being a superhero at the same time
0:58:09and there are all of these really clever
0:58:12extra textural jokes and then these
0:58:15footnotes at the bottom of the page that
0:58:16are just downright hysterical so it's it
0:58:21can be a fast and funny and
0:58:22non-challenging right if that's what
0:58:23you're into or it can be a little bit
0:58:25more of a deep dive if you're like like
0:58:26turned out so loved and read the
0:58:29unbeatable squirrel girl right after I
0:58:32went to see hell Caesar I when I read
0:58:35all three volumes of at brubakers on to
0:58:38our book the fade out which centers on
0:58:41the murder of a Hollywood starlet
0:58:43nineteen fifties the fixer who may
0:58:47actually not be responsible and it
0:58:49crosses over into the impact of the Red
0:58:51Scare on Hollywood and what it's like to
0:58:54be a writer who's living with PTSD in a
0:58:57time when like nobody knew what that was
0:58:59or even identified it its it's nourish
0:59:01and because I'm somebody who likes
0:59:03Raymond Chandler novels a lot i liked it
0:59:06and I thought the fit-out was a really
0:59:07nice total counter
0:59:08point to the common brothers take on the
0:59:12same period in inhale Caesar else that i
0:59:16read recently the third trade paperback
0:59:19for God hates astronauts came home and
0:59:22that is one of the most exuberantly
0:59:23stupid books and comics like it's just
0:59:26dumb it is it is it is ryan braun is
0:59:29like is is a sivaji it is a lot when it
0:59:33comes to doing really unrepentantly
0:59:38stupid hilarious stuff I hadn't come I
0:59:42mean you have you have a king tiger
0:59:45eating a cheeseburger who and who
0:59:47launches invasion against earth using an
0:59:49army of crab people who can be eaten the
0:59:53lead character who had his head punched
0:59:55off in like the first trade and merged
0:59:57with the ghost cow is still you know
0:59:57with the ghost cow is still you know
1:00:00fully done with his with his wife who
1:00:01was also super hero
1:00:03it's it's it's a book that makes almost
1:00:05no sense if you haven't been reading it
1:00:07from the first trade and i love it so
1:00:09much because it is just so so broad and
1:00:12video and um Lexi and I finally finished
1:00:16the she-hulk run done by kind of
1:00:21Lincoln's last name sue shoot souls
1:00:23Charles Charles souls i finally finished
1:00:25the she-hulk round that he did and it
1:00:28had a lovely and satisfying ending and
1:00:30I'm sorry that he's not continue on that
1:00:31book and I hope that someday she hulk
1:00:33gets the gets the Hawkeye experience
1:00:37where the right team like the right
1:00:39audience finds the book and embraces it
1:00:41and sort of carries it forward because
1:00:43it was a lot of fun and they actually
1:00:45show doing a lot of Lord lawyer type
1:00:47stuff and they made that pretty
1:00:49interesting which is which is a big
1:00:50challenge so those are the books I've
1:00:53been reading recently
1:00:54alright okay I Tony what are you reading
1:00:58well I'm i also read the the intro
1:01:03breaker book that uh Lisa was reading
1:01:05which I also i read as a follow up to
1:01:07fate al which is his with the same
1:01:10author I breaker and an artist I think
1:01:14Shaun Phillips which is basically kind
1:01:16of AR Anwar with mixed with the lumix
1:01:20which was interesting i also mentioned i
1:01:23just recently read those recommended to
1:01:26me by a librarian so i'll share that
1:01:28recommendation on to you
1:01:29Southern Cross is a kind of of murder
1:01:32mystery set in space about a woman who
1:01:36is looking for her sister who
1:01:37disappeared on a tanker flight to the
1:01:40the moon of Titan and I like like
1:01:44something space i really like the fuse
1:01:46which is murder mysteries in space and
1:01:48seven crosses a little bit more of that
1:01:50with some kind of weird kind of trippy
1:01:5270 style art so that was pretty
1:01:54interesting read the first following
1:01:55with that and I
1:01:56and looking forward to more volumes of
1:01:58that I had I haven't started a new
1:02:00series a long time and I just already
1:02:02squirrel girl because Lisa told me to so
1:02:04badly so she does that
1:02:07so Shannon do you have anything that
1:02:09you'd like to recommend that you've been
1:02:10looking at
1:02:11well unfortunately i have been so
1:02:13swamped at work i have gotten very
1:02:14little reading done in general and most
1:02:17of it's been for the foot podcast but I
1:02:19did manage to finally get Sandman
1:02:23overture done in red
1:02:26yes it took me this long but yes to it
1:02:29because i am all things a man i'm a huge
1:02:32fan of gaming and anything game and does
1:02:34so once this was completed in a trade
1:02:38paperback format
1:02:39I I I grabbed it and i bought it in and
1:02:43I enjoyed it
1:02:44alright and leave anything other than
1:02:46the things that we assigned you for for
1:02:47this anything else that you've been
1:02:49reading and liking and agent same as the
1:02:52last episode honestly and miss marvel
1:02:54the German hologram squirrel girl i
1:02:56really like i really love her approach
1:02:58to problem solving and because she
1:03:01doesn't just like beat him up she she
1:03:04solves problems and I appreciate that
1:03:06and I have the 2014 round of Black Widow
1:03:11which i haven't dived into quite yet and
1:03:15and then yeah that's about it
1:03:18alright and then for me i'll say in
1:03:22addition to yes the wicked the divine
1:03:23I've been reading only one of midnighter
1:03:28the Joe orlando comic about the from
1:03:31from from the pages of the authority and
1:03:35I think he's an interesting guy i it's
1:03:39it's violent but funny and kind of weird
1:03:42and I find him enjoyable and that this
1:03:45is the midnight or after he and he and
1:03:47his husband have a split up and so he's
1:03:51he's like on his own and has his
1:03:53everybody knows he's the midnighter and
1:03:56he's on tinder or Grindr or whatever as
1:03:58the midnighter and he just dates dates
1:04:01people and is the midnighter and it's
1:04:03fascinating and interesting and strange
1:04:06and I like it
1:04:08thanks to thanks to Joe steal for
1:04:10recommending that actually on Twitter so
1:04:13quick question do they explain why the
1:04:15marriage falls apart
1:04:16no it's not dealt with it all in the
1:04:18first issue and and this is like new 52
1:04:20stuff so for all i know everything's
1:04:22been red card out of existence i have no
1:04:24idea all i know is he's single and
1:04:26coming out of a bad relationship and
1:04:28still like beaten people up and killing
1:04:30them and stuff because they're bad and
1:04:33has a computer in his head
1:04:35actually the the theme of my last couple
1:04:36months of comic reading has been
1:04:38revisiting it's sort of like what Tony
1:04:39said about you you get new issues and
1:04:41you have to read the old issues again I
1:04:44did that with saga it turned out that
1:04:45there are about eight issues of saga
1:04:47that I just lets it because I kind of
1:04:48got soggy it out after a while and so I
1:04:51went back to the beginning I read all of
1:04:53saga and then read the last year's worth
1:04:55of issues that i hadn't read and it was
1:04:57really enjoyable I think I found my love
1:05:00of Frank avon saga and Fiona staples
1:05:03saga again after putting iikind of
1:05:06overdosed on it so i put it aside for
1:05:08for like a year away where you left it
1:05:10because that's that's where things
1:05:11always are yeah that's what you looking
1:05:12at i just put it on you know what no i
1:05:14wasn't i had to start from the beginning
1:05:15again because I totally lost I literally
1:05:17could not remember where I even left off
1:05:19its it was only this the last place you
1:05:21look now and then are similarly and more
1:05:24pointedly for morning glories which i
1:05:26really like but we have that one day
1:05:28cannot it it's so wildly complicated a
1:05:32story and it's convoluted and there's
1:05:34time travel and three-time loops and
1:05:37just crazy stuff happens in morning
1:05:39glories and I i read i inhaled like the
1:05:43first for trades or something and then
1:05:45it's been like a year or so year or two
1:05:47and I realized that I had no idea i
1:05:49picked up one of the issues i haven't
1:05:51read and realize that no idea what's
1:05:52going on so I went back to the beginning
1:05:53and read from the start all the way
1:05:55through the current issue which is
1:05:57number 49 and number 50 comes out in
1:05:59like a week or two and it closed it caps
1:06:02and arc and it's very exciting and if
1:06:04you're a fan of I'd say lost is the best
1:06:07analog it's like lost the comic book
1:06:09except set in a in a boarding school but
1:06:12it is like lost it has stuff where
1:06:15you're like what just happened and is
1:06:17that time travel and it's quite a thing
1:06:20so if you're a fan of that kind of crazy
1:06:23twisting too
1:06:24doing stuff morning glories uh but I i
1:06:26did have to go back for both of those
1:06:28and really just start from the beginning
1:06:29and read them from scratch it was a
1:06:30delight to do that because they're both
1:06:32good books all right I think we've
1:06:34reached the end of the comic book club
1:06:35how about that but that's okay because
1:06:37we'll all be reincarnated in 90 years
1:06:39and return to the comic book pantheon
1:06:41this know maybe this I don't know people
1:06:42be reading comics in 90 years i'll just
1:06:44be beating them to each other using a
1:06:46pair of their brain simply streaming
1:06:48images to reach an executive branch of
1:06:51the brand's yeah we animated images
1:06:53Nellis yeah probably
1:06:55well I'd like to thank my panelists for
1:06:57joining me to read and discuss what
1:06:59given the divine there's a lot of fun
1:07:00Shannon soda thanks for being here
1:07:02always a pleasure only in Sims thank you
1:07:04thank you Tony single are made the
1:07:07Batman be with you and with you and Lisa
1:07:10Schmeisser is always a pleasure
1:07:11if you come up with that was great to me
1:07:15yes
1:07:15oh I had a great time thank you and
1:07:19became a bad man be with all of you
1:07:21how fair right Tony right yeah I don't
1:07:25know I'm gorgeous typical in the flash
1:07:27at this point it doesn't matter it's
1:07:29dark
1:07:30she's their tragedy of these he's you're
1:07:32always within the within like five feet
1:07:33of Batman he's just always nearby just
1:07:35in their rush you can't see them but
1:07:37what the footprints art where you're
1:07:39walking on a beach and then when you
1:07:40look there's only one set of footprints
1:07:41but there's also the Cape line behind
1:07:43them gently racism if they go
1:07:45that man is always with us thanks
1:07:48everybody for listening we will see you
1:07:49next time
1:07:59[Music]