The Incomparable

293: I Think I`m Still Confused


00:00:03   the incomparable number 293 large 2060 [TS]

00:00:10   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:11   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason L we [TS]

00:00:13   are here to convene another edition of [TS]

00:00:15   our comic book club we're going to talk [TS]

00:00:17   about the weekend in the divine by karen [TS]

00:00:20   gillan and Jamie McKelvie published by [TS]

00:00:22   image comics we're going to be delving [TS]

00:00:23   into the first two trades will blow the [TS]

00:00:26   spoiler horn before we get into a lot of [TS]

00:00:28   detail about them so you can run away [TS]

00:00:30   that there are three trade paperbacks [TS]

00:00:31   available so you can we like a in our [TS]

00:00:34   book club to make it so that you can go [TS]

00:00:36   out and buy a trade paperback or two and [TS]

00:00:39   have a good reading experience without [TS]

00:00:41   requiring you to read like 800 issues of [TS]

00:00:44   something anyway joining me to talk [TS]

00:00:46   about the wicked and the divine I i have [TS]

00:00:49   some excellent members of comic book [TS]

00:00:50   club this time Lisa Schmeisser as always [TS]

00:00:53   hello hi I'm said that we're doing this [TS]

00:00:55   I it's good it's good to have the comic [TS]

00:00:56   book club back in session [TS]

00:00:58   mhm the Tony centralized out there hi [TS]

00:01:00   Tony hello nerds [TS]

00:01:02   I we got a hell on earth from Tony [TS]

00:01:04   answer again but some people want for [TS]

00:01:06   some reason a more new comic book reader [TS]

00:01:10   but she's back for more complicated [TS]

00:01:12   action [TS]

00:01:13   it's a lien sims welcome back to the [TS]

00:01:15   comic book club hi i need to catch [TS]

00:01:17   phrase fruit any did need to workshop [TS]

00:01:19   that later you hear hello nerds sweeping [TS]

00:01:22   the nation so I've heard that but I I [TS]

00:01:25   feel like that's already a strong brand [TS]

00:01:27   association is probably does this trip [TS]

00:01:29   I'm very litigious he's got the backing [TS]

00:01:34   of the future Batman behind him too so [TS]

00:01:35   you gotta be careful there who yeah yeah [TS]

00:01:37   and also joining us Sheamus others hello [TS]

00:01:40   Lefty keys [TS]

00:01:41   welcome back to the comic book club [TS]

00:01:43   thank you [TS]

00:01:44   uh was not long ago and actually well as [TS]

00:01:47   the as the recordings go was very long [TS]

00:01:48   ago that we were we were talking about [TS]

00:01:50   miss marvel but that episode didn't post [TS]

00:01:53   too long ago so it seems to the [TS]

00:01:55   listeners like we were just here like a [TS]

00:01:57   month ago [TS]

00:01:58   the boys are back so this image comics [TS]

00:02:01   the wicked in the divine this is a [TS]

00:02:02   really interesting series wikipedia [TS]

00:02:05   tells me it's largely influenced by pop [TS]

00:02:07   music okay good thanks Wikipedia [TS]

00:02:12   an ancient religions it well done that's [TS]

00:02:15   it right so the idea here is that is [TS]

00:02:16   that there are these gods who are [TS]

00:02:18   reincarnated and they live for a couple [TS]

00:02:20   of years and then they die and then go [TS]

00:02:22   away for 90 years in it and it uh it [TS]

00:02:24   repeats and so we are introduced to some [TS]

00:02:28   but not all at first of the 12 people in [TS]

00:02:31   the pantheon of reincarnated gods and [TS]

00:02:35   then there's a there's a we learn about [TS]

00:02:38   the system the they call the the [TS]

00:02:41   what-is-it the the recurrence where they [TS]

00:02:45   live and then they die they discover who [TS]

00:02:47   they are sort of as teenagers or [TS]

00:02:50   thereabouts-- thinking they're normal [TS]

00:02:52   people up until then and then there's [TS]

00:02:53   sort of picked and added to the the [TS]

00:02:55   Pantheon and then they live for a couple [TS]

00:02:56   of years and then they die they're told [TS]

00:02:58   what is that they will some will love [TS]

00:02:59   you someone hate you you'll be dead [TS]

00:03:00   within two years and I and and so thats [TS]

00:03:04   pleasure [TS]

00:03:04   that's part of the story and you get [TS]

00:03:06   that upfront and then there's also a [TS]

00:03:08   kind of motivating plot thread that [TS]

00:03:09   begins with some some deaths of people [TS]

00:03:13   and people being framed potentially for [TS]

00:03:16   murder [TS]

00:03:16   so there's a mystery at its heart which [TS]

00:03:18   actually remind reminded me a little bit [TS]

00:03:20   of watchmen a little bit in that there's [TS]

00:03:24   there's a rich world but there's also [TS]

00:03:26   kind of a motivating did detective plot [TS]

00:03:30   essentially at the center of it which i [TS]

00:03:32   think is kind of interesting before we [TS]

00:03:34   get into the plot though and blow the [TS]

00:03:37   spoiler horn I wanted to see if any of [TS]

00:03:39   you had some some kind of a big thoughts [TS]

00:03:41   about what what this what this this [TS]

00:03:44   story is and and what makes it [TS]

00:03:46   interesting [TS]

00:03:47   I will be honest and say up front that [TS]

00:03:49   one of the things that sort of kept me [TS]

00:03:51   going [TS]

00:03:52   reading this was actually looking at the [TS]

00:03:54   pretty pretty art and usually it's the [TS]

00:03:57   other way for me usually it's the story [TS]

00:03:59   that grabs me and sometimes the arts [TS]

00:04:01   great and sometimes I sort of grit my [TS]

00:04:04   teeth because I'm not enjoying the art [TS]

00:04:05   but keep going because the story and [TS]

00:04:07   this time it was a bit the opposite i [TS]

00:04:09   felt like i was having to juggle a whole [TS]

00:04:12   lot of characters all of a sudden but [TS]

00:04:16   they were very pretty to look at so I [TS]

00:04:17   kept reading agree with that and it's [TS]

00:04:21   gorgeous i read it on my iPad so I [TS]

00:04:23   didn't have to deal with like pesky paid [TS]

00:04:26   wines in the way and and it's just like [TS]

00:04:29   I found myself just stopping and staring [TS]

00:04:31   at some of some of the the pages like [TS]

00:04:33   the full pages because they were just [TS]

00:04:35   gorgeous and so artfully done like I'm [TS]

00:04:38   one of the earlier pages is kind of our [TS]

00:04:40   our main character in an audience [TS]

00:04:43   i'm in a performer onstage and trying [TS]

00:04:45   not to be spoilery hand and just the way [TS]

00:04:48   that they Illustrated that like you [TS]

00:04:50   could see like you could see her but it [TS]

00:04:52   wasn't like they put a spotlight on her [TS]

00:04:55   and it was just beautiful beautiful art [TS]

00:04:57   I had to read it a couple of times [TS]

00:04:58   because i was really confused i had and [TS]

00:05:01   as with most things with the [TS]

00:05:02   incomparable I just kind of dive and I'm [TS]

00:05:04   like yeah I'll do that and they came to [TS]

00:05:06   dive in and do it and I don't have any [TS]

00:05:08   expectations going in so I I didn't know [TS]

00:05:10   what the pretext was they didn't know [TS]

00:05:14   hey I had no knowledge and so it's like [TS]

00:05:16   I have no idea what's happening and so I [TS]

00:05:20   don't know if you're one of those [TS]

00:05:21   readers and you're like this is really i [TS]

00:05:23   have no clue go through and read it [TS]

00:05:25   again because it's worth it a second and [TS]

00:05:26   third time and and there's a little bit [TS]

00:05:30   at the end so i bought mine on [TS]

00:05:31   comixology and so they have kind of that [TS]

00:05:34   that back material and they included [TS]

00:05:37   kind of their promotional materials [TS]

00:05:38   which which I could have used at the [TS]

00:05:40   front of the book and think I would have [TS]

00:05:41   been on board faster so if you've got [TS]

00:05:44   like the first volume and go read the [TS]

00:05:47   back of the book in circle around again [TS]

00:05:50   because I found that really helpful [TS]

00:05:51   after I found it [TS]

00:05:52   yeah similarly i actually went hunting [TS]

00:05:55   online this afternoon and evening [TS]

00:05:57   looking for annotations like no like [TS]

00:05:59   mice and men experience was I love [TS]

00:06:01   Sandman but once i found annotations [TS]

00:06:03   that explain the things i didn't get I [TS]

00:06:04   loved it even more [TS]

00:06:05   yeah so we're looking unfortunately [TS]

00:06:07   there's not no unified nobody's doing [TS]

00:06:09   like a really thrown unified annotation [TS]

00:06:12   jetta found a couple of tumblers that [TS]

00:06:13   have done some of the issues and that [TS]

00:06:15   helped because especially references to [TS]

00:06:18   the London geography this is set in [TS]

00:06:20   England there were some things that I [TS]

00:06:23   didn't pick up on just because I've [TS]

00:06:24   never been there yet [TS]

00:06:25   I was I was I was looking for that too i [TS]

00:06:27   remember reading Alan Moore's League of [TS]

00:06:30   Extraordinary Gentlemen and there's this [TS]

00:06:31   website [TS]

00:06:32   has like the undressing yes like panel [TS]

00:06:35   by panel level like autopsy of what's in [TS]

00:06:37   there and I was looking for that for [TS]

00:06:39   this [TS]

00:06:40   there's also one for jet for Kingdom [TS]

00:06:43   Come that is meticulous panel by panel [TS]

00:06:45   yeah this is gonna watch I 12 you and me [TS]

00:06:48   from hell that that demands the [TS]

00:06:51   annotations practically and I have to [TS]

00:06:52   admit like Shannon like the first their [TS]

00:06:54   first time I read through this i bought [TS]

00:06:57   the trade the paper trades because I i [TS]

00:06:59   do like being able to stick my thumb at [TS]

00:07:01   like one part of the book and foot [TS]

00:07:02   forward and flip backwards which is what [TS]

00:07:03   i found myself doing a lot with the [TS]

00:07:06   title pages that have that the title [TS]

00:07:09   pages have like the little love you know [TS]

00:07:11   the circles and circles that resembles [TS]

00:07:14   my little circles up and I found myself [TS]

00:07:16   flipping back and forth to figure out [TS]

00:07:18   okay this is what symbol is this what's [TS]

00:07:20   this [TS]

00:07:21   I'm trying to match up with characters [TS]

00:07:22   and anyway my mother and I pulled out my [TS]

00:07:24   phone and began googling for annotations [TS]

00:07:27   and Tumblr posts and things like that [TS]

00:07:28   because it's so it's so deep that way [TS]

00:07:31   on my second read through I i was [TS]

00:07:33   reading picture the graphic the trades [TS]

00:07:35   and I had my phone with Wikipedia open [TS]

00:07:37   to look up like all the good God names [TS]

00:07:39   because I was like there's clearly stuff [TS]

00:07:41   in here that maybe I'm supposed to get [TS]

00:07:43   that like where these characters in are [TS]

00:07:45   getting and I am NOT getting and i'm so [TS]

00:07:47   glad you brought up Sandman too because [TS]

00:07:49   it was like that like the first time you [TS]

00:07:50   read Sandman you can read it by itself [TS]

00:07:52   like this is pretty cool and then you go [TS]

00:07:54   back and you read it with annotations or [TS]

00:07:56   with knowledge of all the characters [TS]

00:07:57   he's bringing in the mythology that he's [TS]

00:07:59   begun to reference even casually and [TS]

00:08:00   throw away and I like what stance and [TS]

00:08:03   men like oh my god the depth and the [TS]

00:08:05   thought that went into that and this has [TS]

00:08:08   a really similar field because as it as [TS]

00:08:10   you're going through the beautiful [TS]

00:08:11   beautiful art to see you know the [TS]

00:08:13   character they've chosen to make look [TS]

00:08:14   like Rihanna Rihanna the one that [TS]

00:08:16   they've chosen to make a David Bowie [TS]

00:08:17   prestige the one they've chosen as a [TS]

00:08:20   Tory a MOS knock off you know and and [TS]

00:08:26   you figure okay this all the baggage [TS]

00:08:27   that those pop stars bring into it and [TS]

00:08:29   then you combine it with the daddies are [TS]

00:08:31   supposed to represent and it's just so [TS]

00:08:34   smart and uh huh yeah that's a good word [TS]

00:08:37   now to be there [TS]

00:08:38   I think they give us just enough in the [TS]

00:08:41   story without annotations I mean you get [TS]

00:08:44   just enough to at least you can sort of [TS]

00:08:47   place what's going on and they try to [TS]

00:08:49   make the connections for you as far as [TS]

00:08:50   like you know certain deities [TS]

00:08:51   representing certain concepts that are [TS]

00:08:54   important to the mystery for example but [TS]

00:08:56   yeah if we have you read it through the [TS]

00:08:59   first time and then go back the second [TS]

00:09:00   time with some kind of support some kind [TS]

00:09:03   of research it really it really does [TS]

00:09:06   make it a lot better this book series [TS]

00:09:08   also strikes me as sort of the other [TS]

00:09:11   side of the coin to the other series [TS]

00:09:13   that mckelvey and and killing have done [TS]

00:09:16   which is phonogram and the premise [TS]

00:09:19   behind that series is that there are a [TS]

00:09:21   group of formerly young people and [TS]

00:09:23   brands a formal young people because [TS]

00:09:25   they were young during the Britpop [TS]

00:09:27   explosion of the nineties and during [TS]

00:09:29   that period they discovered that they [TS]

00:09:30   were photo mancers I people who could [TS]

00:09:32   use magic if they tapped into music in a [TS]

00:09:34   very specific way and there's and the [TS]

00:09:38   phonogram talks about music as a way of [TS]

00:09:41   channeling the divine in changing [TS]

00:09:43   reality and this series is about fandom [TS]

00:09:46   as a way of being changed by the divine [TS]

00:09:49   and then going out and changing reality [TS]

00:09:51   around you and I thought okay there [TS]

00:09:53   there minding the same time attic [TS]

00:09:55   territory they're just coming out from a [TS]

00:09:56   completely different angle and so it's [TS]

00:09:57   kind of enjoyable to read the series [TS]

00:09:59   back to back to to take a look at the [TS]

00:10:01   different approaches and see what's the [TS]

00:10:03   same which is that the creators of this [TS]

00:10:05   unshakable conviction that music is is [TS]

00:10:07   really a force above and beyond [TS]

00:10:09   it may be created or channel by humans [TS]

00:10:11   but they seem to regard music is [TS]

00:10:12   something that like exists its own [TS]

00:10:14   separate almost magical entity and then [TS]

00:10:17   they take the reactions that people have [TS]

00:10:19   to music very very seriously like they [TS]

00:10:22   really get the idea of what it means to [TS]

00:10:25   lose yourself in a creative work and to [TS]

00:10:27   find yourself in the process of losing [TS]

00:10:29   yourself and and I really enjoy that [TS]

00:10:31   about this both this book and phonogram [TS]

00:10:33   let's take a brief break to talk about [TS]

00:10:35   something that's not in the pantheon [TS]

00:10:37   although maybe it's in my personal [TS]

00:10:38   pantheon because I sleep on it every [TS]

00:10:40   night it's casper mattresses yes you [TS]

00:10:42   guessed it [TS]

00:10:43   casper mattresses are obsessively [TS]

00:10:44   engineered american-made mattresses [TS]

00:10:46   they're available shockingly fair price [TS]

00:10:48   and now you can get fifty dollars off [TS]

00:10:51   any mattress purchase by going to Casper [TS]

00:10:53   calm / smell and using code smell that [TS]

00:10:57   check out we all spend about a third of [TS]

00:10:59   our lives sleeping some a little bit [TS]

00:11:01   less some little bit more but really you [TS]

00:11:03   would go insane if you didn't sleep so [TS]

00:11:06   let's make sure you sleep on a good [TS]

00:11:08   mattress so that you feel refreshed and [TS]

00:11:10   active in the morning [TS]

00:11:12   Casper has two different technologies [TS]

00:11:14   that they put together for better nights [TS]

00:11:15   and brighter days there's a latex foam [TS]

00:11:17   and memory foam latex foam gives it a [TS]

00:11:19   really pleasant feeling on the top and a [TS]

00:11:23   memory foam you've got support [TS]

00:11:25   underneath they call it just the right [TS]

00:11:26   thing just the right balance my old bed [TS]

00:11:28   felt like a trampoline I'd sit on a [TS]

00:11:29   macat would be ejected from the other [TS]

00:11:31   side of the bed this new bed it is [TS]

00:11:33   really nice i've been using it for more [TS]

00:11:35   than a year [TS]

00:11:36   it's a Casper mattress and it is really [TS]

00:11:38   great [TS]

00:11:39   they've got a risk-free trial and return [TS]

00:11:40   policy so if you don't like it I can't [TS]

00:11:42   imagine that but if you don't like it [TS]

00:11:44   you basically say hey Casper take this [TS]

00:11:46   away and they give you your money back [TS]

00:11:47   and you can do that not just for a week [TS]

00:11:49   or a month but for up to a hundred days [TS]

00:11:52   and it comes to you in a box it's [TS]

00:11:54   delivered straight to your door from [TS]

00:11:55   from I think it's ups doesn't really [TS]

00:11:58   matter a partial service delivery person [TS]

00:12:00   will bring it to your door you open it [TS]

00:12:01   up it expands to its full size and if [TS]

00:12:04   you don't like it you can send it back [TS]

00:12:05   they will take it away at a store you [TS]

00:12:07   might lay down for a minute or two and a [TS]

00:12:09   salesperson will come over and say [TS]

00:12:10   here's a sucker [TS]

00:12:11   I mean hello sir how can I help you and [TS]

00:12:14   and/or hello ma'am how can I help you [TS]

00:12:17   and regardless you are laying there [TS]

00:12:18   thinking is this comfortable i have no [TS]

00:12:21   idea [TS]

00:12:21   can I lay here for eight hours no well [TS]

00:12:23   I'll give it a try it's not fun [TS]

00:12:25   what I'm saying is I hate going to [TS]

00:12:27   mattress stores the Casper you get to [TS]

00:12:29   sleep on it literally sleep on it five [TS]

00:12:31   hundred dollars for a twin up to 9 50 [TS]

00:12:33   for a king compared to industry averages [TS]

00:12:35   that's actually an outstanding price [TS]

00:12:37   point and you can get fifty dollars [TS]

00:12:38   toward any mattress purchase by going to [TS]

00:12:40   Casper calm / smell and using code smell [TS]

00:12:43   at checkout terms and conditions apply [TS]

00:12:45   thank you to catch her for sponsoring [TS]

00:12:47   being comfortable [TS]

00:12:48   well there's a lot here we should [TS]

00:12:50   probably blow the spoiler horn and get [TS]

00:12:52   into it in more detail gonna we're gonna [TS]

00:12:54   we're going to do that right now [TS]

00:13:00   spoiler horn probably a reference in [TS]

00:13:03   some way to David Bowie because it isn't [TS]

00:13:06   isn't everything Lucifer is definitely [TS]

00:13:08   the thin white duke David Bowie and I [TS]

00:13:10   read after David Bowie died i read an [TS]

00:13:11   interview where they said that they at [TS]

00:13:13   one point considered having all 12 [TS]

00:13:15   members of the Pantheon be different [TS]

00:13:17   aspects of David Bowie because they said [TS]

00:13:19   they could totally have done it [TS]

00:13:21   wow it's they went another way but [TS]

00:13:25   Lucifer is definitely David Bowie so so [TS]

00:13:29   yeah this is funny that you mentioned [TS]

00:13:31   the annotations and all that because [TS]

00:13:32   this is this is the first book in a [TS]

00:13:33   while where I felt like I was reminded [TS]

00:13:36   of when i read read watchmen and I know [TS]

00:13:40   that that is it's almost tired to have [TS]

00:13:42   that be a touchdown but that was the [TS]

00:13:43   first time I really read a comic and [TS]

00:13:44   felt like I need to take notes and I [TS]

00:13:47   wanted footnotes and I I knew that there [TS]

00:13:50   were so many layers and that also I i [TS]

00:13:53   was intrigued by the fact that there was [TS]

00:13:55   a and continue telling there was a plot [TS]

00:13:57   that was going to drag me through the [TS]

00:13:59   story and it might not even be the point [TS]

00:14:01   of the story as much as it is and so [TS]

00:14:03   much work of fiction as the you know if [TS]

00:14:06   the thing to drag drag me through from [TS]

00:14:09   the beginning to the end and so in this [TS]

00:14:10   case ya in this case we get the the [TS]

00:14:13   death of the the judge when Lucifer [TS]

00:14:17   snaps fingers and she's blame for it and [TS]

00:14:20   says she didn't do it and it's a godly [TS]

00:14:22   act so some other one of the gods must [TS]

00:14:25   have done it and she's put in jail and [TS]

00:14:27   it it leads to it at a chain of [TS]

00:14:29   unfortunate events and creates this [TS]

00:14:32   mystery i'm and and also there's a [TS]

00:14:34   mystery of who the rest of the members [TS]

00:14:36   of the Pantheon are some of them died [TS]

00:14:38   some of them haven't yet been revealed [TS]

00:14:40   and so there's that mystery happening to [TS]

00:14:42   my even like that there's like the [TS]

00:14:44   little mysteries about like we know that [TS]

00:14:46   this is this this member of the Pantheon [TS]

00:14:48   is this God but which version of that [TS]

00:14:50   God is right ball followed the question [TS]

00:14:53   which ball ball which one are you and [TS]

00:14:55   he's like i identify with this one [TS]

00:14:57   enough that wide [TS]

00:14:58   maybe Bob who is sort of Kanye West's [TS]

00:15:01   kind of as a path to say except except [TS]

00:15:03   for David Bowie all the other pop music [TS]

00:15:06   references are completely lost on me [TS]

00:15:08   well well this Prince there's the one [TS]

00:15:09   who looks exactly like prince who is [TS]

00:15:11   yeah highness [TS]

00:15:12   yeah okay yeah we um the wooden [TS]

00:15:15   character is sort of the doctor okay [TS]

00:15:18   yeah he's one of the Deaf bugs and I've [TS]

00:15:22   read that the Emirati was actually sort [TS]

00:15:24   of lawrence somewhere between florence [TS]

00:15:26   welch and Stevie Nicks [TS]

00:15:28   oh so you have a good point there I i [TS]

00:15:30   had identified her as a Tori Amos sort [TS]

00:15:33   of character because of the great hair [TS]

00:15:35   the long red hair and the the abandoned [TS]

00:15:37   with what she finds herself around on [TS]

00:15:38   stage but I think Stevie Nicks is [TS]

00:15:41   another although personally I feel like [TS]

00:15:43   Stevie Nicks should be out of the [TS]

00:15:44   Pantheon because she's a law unto [TS]

00:15:45   herself [TS]

00:15:46   ok but yeah but ok there were 31 more [TS]

00:15:53   the rave dude the one who has my list [TS]

00:15:57   yes Dionysus who has been alone inside [TS]

00:15:58   his head for is emo be lets say yes [TS]

00:16:01   thanks hehe look very young mobile yeah [TS]

00:16:03   yeah that's looking at school care using [TS]

00:16:05   up one of the joys and this is is is [TS]

00:16:07   seeing these gods put in in these are [TS]

00:16:10   putting putting a modern context and [TS]

00:16:12   also the idea that if you had gods in [TS]

00:16:14   the modern world they would be stars [TS]

00:16:17   like literally there's a convention [TS]

00:16:19   celebrating you and everything that [TS]

00:16:22   they're stars the fandemonium that the [TS]

00:16:25   fancy on right in San involved to that [TS]

00:16:28   and so that's so great that you get this [TS]

00:16:30   idea that if God's God's in a modern [TS]

00:16:32   context for rock stars so i guess the [TS]

00:16:33   reverse would be true that we treat rock [TS]

00:16:35   stars like gods but here it's literally [TS]

00:16:37   the gods are wrong stars enjoy that the [TS]

00:16:40   Norns our golf like they're even work [TS]

00:16:42   often the Morrigan yes yes with ragnarok [TS]

00:16:47   roc a because it's a rock concert you [TS]

00:16:50   see huh [TS]

00:16:53   it's it's such it's such a pretty booked [TS]

00:16:57   like you said it reminds me almost of [TS]

00:16:58   the needle paintings of the nineteen [TS]

00:16:59   eighties and one of those on the cup and [TS]

00:17:01   why does it was a cover for for real [TS]

00:17:03   which was one of the first albums i [TS]

00:17:05   bought with my own money so i have that [TS]

00:17:06   inextricable music artists och [TS]

00:17:09   it's so smart um I love the the multiple [TS]

00:17:15   mysteries that are unfolding around it [TS]

00:17:17   I i wish that they would kind of explain [TS]

00:17:21   more about the mechanisms of fandom like [TS]

00:17:22   how do these kids keep finding these [TS]

00:17:24   music happenings are you know is it [TS]

00:17:26   through text is it through through [TS]

00:17:28   bulletin boards it through word-of-mouth [TS]

00:17:30   like there's like an undercurrent of [TS]

00:17:32   social media technology happening but [TS]

00:17:35   it's not really as much to the forefront [TS]

00:17:37   as it could be [TS]

00:17:38   yeah and that's that's a good point so [TS]

00:17:40   what do we think about the SR main [TS]

00:17:42   character is not one of the is not one [TS]

00:17:45   of the gods or is she [TS]

00:17:48   and it is is Laura she's she's a fan of [TS]

00:17:51   the Pantheon and she becomes kind of [TS]

00:17:54   swept up in the inner workings of the [TS]

00:17:56   Pantheon she kinda guessed she used to [TS]

00:17:59   be like a b-list celebrity in the yeah [TS]

00:18:01   she's sort of like Kim Kardashian in the [TS]

00:18:03   paris hilton day yeah yeah yeah so she [TS]

00:18:06   she gets swept up into this and [TS]

00:18:08   befriends Lucifer which is important [TS]

00:18:09   because then when when Lucy is accused [TS]

00:18:12   of blowing up the the judges head and [TS]

00:18:14   all of that she becomes a key witness [TS]

00:18:18   essentially 22 Lucifer's escape and then [TS]

00:18:21   there's the suggestion that Lucifer sort [TS]

00:18:24   of left something behind for her after [TS]

00:18:27   we did we didn't mention there's uh what [TS]

00:18:31   is a non k who is the who is sort of [TS]

00:18:33   like the old she liked the Krone who is [TS]

00:18:36   also like the controller of [TS]

00:18:37   and-and-and-and-and watcher for the [TS]

00:18:41   college thing into being right she calls [TS]

00:18:44   them into being and then the way this [TS]

00:18:46   series begins in the very first few [TS]

00:18:48   panels of the very first issue use it [TS]

00:18:51   well actually the very first time for a [TS]

00:18:53   few first issue but like right beginning [TS]

00:18:55   there's that the whole scene where the [TS]

00:18:58   incarnations from the 1920s the Jazz Age [TS]

00:19:02   yeah which is another moment of cultural [TS]

00:19:04   people were there are there's this table [TS]

00:19:07   there are eight schools one of which is [TS]

00:19:09   in a dreadful state which is just a very [TS]

00:19:11   violent data [TS]

00:19:12   yeah and then there are four of them [TS]

00:19:14   left and i found myself trying to figure [TS]

00:19:16   out like who was who because we know [TS]

00:19:18   that one of them was I'm they even give [TS]

00:19:20   you a circle for the the [TS]

00:19:22   with different icons then we get in the [TS]

00:19:24   modern yawns like we know one of them is [TS]

00:19:26   Minerva just because the ike the out [TS]

00:19:28   like on a similar and one of them is [TS]

00:19:30   Susanoo who is you know Japanese God who [TS]

00:19:33   by the way was also featured in Sandman [TS]

00:19:35   but like we don't get we don't get the [TS]

00:19:39   neat one-to-one match up and I found [TS]

00:19:41   myself wondering why these for how did [TS]

00:19:43   she get them in one place and how does [TS]

00:19:45   she manage to coerce them into killing [TS]

00:19:47   themselves and so when you start with [TS]

00:19:49   something like that and then you move to [TS]

00:19:51   end these are pop stars with built-in [TS]

00:19:52   expiration dates it gets like I love a [TS]

00:19:57   good mr. like that because i just wanna [TS]

00:19:58   find out why [TS]

00:19:59   like how does she accept this whole what [TS]

00:20:01   why do they agree to this what happens [TS]

00:20:03   if a God fights back do you ever find [TS]

00:20:04   out right because when we see the gods [TS]

00:20:07   from the twenties the last thing they do [TS]

00:20:08   is the three surviving member snap their [TS]

00:20:10   fingers in their building there in blows [TS]

00:20:12   up so the implication there is that [TS]

00:20:14   their wings you're not going to live [TS]

00:20:16   past two years the the you could read [TS]

00:20:19   that as being you know they will expire [TS]

00:20:21   naturally or something but that's not [TS]

00:20:23   what we see we see them a lot of them [TS]

00:20:26   are already dead and then the last three [TS]

00:20:27   basically blow themselves up [TS]

00:20:29   yeah for that was for that was more than [TS]

00:20:31   12 tonight for ya [TS]

00:20:34   what 21 to 34 so that you've got the [TS]

00:20:36   fourth they've got the 44 beat authority [TS]

00:20:38   starting with sort of procedures rock [TS]

00:20:40   and roll when you think about it you [TS]

00:20:41   know Dionysus Israel later [TS]

00:20:43   yeah and I don't know how accurate this [TS]

00:20:45   is this was on wikia some peeps and [TS]

00:20:48   somebody started constructing wicked in [TS]

00:20:50   divine annotations there they identified [TS]

00:20:53   the african-american in the twenties as [TS]

00:20:56   another ball and then the white-faced [TS]

00:20:59   girl with the mask is another otsuka the [TS]

00:21:02   makeup is a bit similar so we're Lord so [TS]

00:21:05   we're looking at because the demand [TS]

00:21:07   Susanoo based on the a light so parents [TS]

00:21:09   apparently your summer reruns and then [TS]

00:21:11   there's sometimes no one's get in the [TS]

00:21:13   mix and so yes that the the flapper is [TS]

00:21:15   Minerva and it's worth noting that in [TS]

00:21:17   this incarnation this Minerva is dressed [TS]

00:21:19   like one of the Beatles and she's like [TS]

00:21:22   12 years old also worth mentioning is [TS]

00:21:25   that Lucifer which is not Lucifer was [TS]

00:21:27   actually and eleanor rigby yeah yeah [TS]

00:21:29   because her parents were major beatles [TS]

00:21:31   fans [TS]

00:21:32   yeah yeah they're they're so I mean I i [TS]

00:21:35   mentioned an Aikido is too [TS]

00:21:36   say that in the end I what happens is [TS]

00:21:41   that Laura is left with this sort of [TS]

00:21:42   like trace of Lucifer and wants to know [TS]

00:21:45   what happened to Lucifer because a [TS]

00:21:47   non-key catches up with her after she's [TS]

00:21:48   broken out of jail [TS]

00:21:49   and-and-and-and blows her head off and [TS]

00:21:52   so the mystery suddenly transforms into [TS]

00:21:54   not who set up Lucifer but really like [TS]

00:21:57   who like setup Lucifer and led to her [TS]

00:22:00   death and then that since Laura on this [TS]

00:22:02   kind of interesting journey it's it's [TS]

00:22:04   like a I don't know how to describe it i [TS]

00:22:07   think there's a word for it in fiction [TS]

00:22:09   but it is she's taking a journey it's a [TS]

00:22:11   little bit like it's a little bit like [TS]

00:22:12   almost like the odyssey or something [TS]

00:22:14   like candied where she is she's kind of [TS]

00:22:16   traveling through the circles of these [TS]

00:22:18   bizarre things that are happening [TS]

00:22:19   culturally around all these different [TS]

00:22:22   gods as she is trying to gather [TS]

00:22:24   information about what's going on which [TS]

00:22:26   i think is a really cool way to [TS]

00:22:27   introduce us because we're throwing in [TS]

00:22:29   without much of a map and then and then [TS]

00:22:31   she does lead us through she gets in [TS]

00:22:34   this very special position where she [TS]

00:22:35   gets access than a normal person [TS]

00:22:37   wouldn't and then starts to learn about [TS]

00:22:39   what the is going on with the Pantheon [TS]

00:22:41   and what's interesting about the whole [TS]

00:22:43   access thing is she also has a frenemy i [TS]

00:22:47   guess you'd say Cassandra who's the jerk [TS]

00:22:49   who's the journalist the skeptical [TS]

00:22:51   journalist names who's sort of angry [TS]

00:22:56   about the access that fans get compared [TS]

00:22:58   to journalists and has a real chip on [TS]

00:22:59   her shoulder until Medicaid decides to [TS]

00:23:02   20 your oh you're a loser and earlier or [TS]

00:23:05   murder because I i know the D is [TS]

00:23:07   actually brown stuff from Wales English [TS]

00:23:09   anyway she's one of the Norns and her to [TS]

00:23:11   cameraman get turned camera ladies get [TS]

00:23:13   turned into the other Norns and part of [TS]

00:23:16   me is wondering if comic con que can [TS]

00:23:19   strategically deploy and defended [TS]

00:23:22   deployed divinity where it suits her [TS]

00:23:24   long her her long-term needs [TS]

00:23:27   yeah that's kind of opened a question I [TS]

00:23:29   think I don't know if later episode [TS]

00:23:30   later issues will clarify that because [TS]

00:23:33   on the one hand it does feel like she's [TS]

00:23:36   you know able to sort of pick and choose [TS]

00:23:38   we have the bit where Mary Marion [TS]

00:23:42   becomes the more again and then is like [TS]

00:23:44   an Cameron come can Cameron come to and [TS]

00:23:48   wrong [TS]

00:23:49   this bathroom it but on the other hand [TS]

00:23:50   what she says to Cassandra sort of [TS]

00:23:52   implies that she's got to like sort of [TS]

00:23:54   hunt and discover them right [TS]

00:23:56   mm what I'm wondering about is if these [TS]

00:23:59   divinities come through or she's like [TS]

00:24:00   okay you have a combination of traits [TS]

00:24:02   that that can-can are our divinity [TS]

00:24:05   compatible and here you go because the [TS]

00:24:08   event that ends the second book and I [TS]

00:24:10   realize we've done the spoiler horn but [TS]

00:24:12   the event that is the second book with [TS]

00:24:13   first she I'm so here you are in she [TS]

00:24:17   basically indulges in a wish fulfillment [TS]

00:24:20   exercise and then a murder and I thought [TS]

00:24:23   to myself did you do that to disarm this [TS]

00:24:26   person or this divinity on it [TS]

00:24:29   her actions are very opaque and very [TS]

00:24:32   strategic [TS]

00:24:32   yeah it puts a lot of especially because [TS]

00:24:34   she's kind of one of the like sources [TS]

00:24:37   for a lot of like the rules of the world [TS]

00:24:39   yeah and then those actions in that last [TS]

00:24:41   issue it's like well how much of what we [TS]

00:24:44   were told you I still a hundred percent [TS]

00:24:45   right believe right yeah i mentioned [TS]

00:24:48   this on when i mentioned i was reading [TS]

00:24:49   this in our last comic book club that I [TS]

00:24:51   feel like the ending of of the second [TS]

00:24:55   trade is a brilliant cliffhanger because [TS]

00:24:58   in those last few pages what happens the [TS]

00:25:01   entire premise is called into question [TS]

00:25:03   about how that happens you did this this [TS]

00:25:05   character who have been sort of [TS]

00:25:06   introduced to suggest you know she's [TS]

00:25:08   kind of creepy but she sort of like has [TS]

00:25:10   a lot of knowledge she drops enough [TS]

00:25:13   knowledge for you to make you question [TS]

00:25:15   exactly what her role is here and your [TS]

00:25:18   main character is who we've established [TS]

00:25:20   is not actually one of the Pantheon is [TS]

00:25:24   told [TS]

00:25:24   oh no you actually are the 13th member [TS]

00:25:26   of the Pantheon and then is murdered so [TS]

00:25:29   you've lost use the main character the [TS]

00:25:32   entire premises questioned and that's [TS]

00:25:34   the end of the second trade it's a it's [TS]

00:25:36   shot great ending but it's certainly a [TS]

00:25:38   great cliffhanger [TS]

00:25:39   I also son is really slice of version of [TS]

00:25:42   the Mary Sue trope as it were because [TS]

00:25:45   you have a fan who is so involved and [TS]

00:25:47   yeah this world is such wish fulfillment [TS]

00:25:49   and then when they finally do get to [TS]

00:25:51   become the minute they remember their [TS]

00:25:52   fandom boom they're killed by the [TS]

00:25:54   creator and I was funny because [TS]

00:25:58   chip-chip warned me he actually read [TS]

00:25:59   this before I did [TS]

00:26:01   and he had it on his iPad and is not [TS]

00:26:03   shining ipad pro and he told me before i [TS]

00:26:07   started reading okay you cannot go [TS]

00:26:10   george RR martin on this and throw the [TS]

00:26:12   ipad against the wall when Josh don't [TS]

00:26:14   know you've been and to be frank I [TS]

00:26:17   didn't feel like doing that i have [TS]

00:26:19   speculations since the chosen goddess [TS]

00:26:23   identity for laura is Persephone and 470 [TS]

00:26:27   sort of has a cycle thing going on so [TS]

00:26:29   you know I I didn't immediately feel the [TS]

00:26:32   same way as I did with Martin when it [TS]

00:26:34   actually didn't have to deal with Martin [TS]

00:26:36   killing off characters even though i [TS]

00:26:37   love how he will do that kind of thing [TS]

00:26:40   it was because the second shoe that the [TS]

00:26:44   first she was like in the first pages of [TS]

00:26:46   the first book and it took three books [TS]

00:26:47   to get to the second shoe and that's too [TS]

00:26:49   long but that's totally off topic [TS]

00:26:51   sorry mo but yeah but I was not as upset [TS]

00:26:56   as chip expected me to be reading that [TS]

00:26:58   and there are things that I really like [TS]

00:27:00   and things that are important to me [TS]

00:27:01   seemed to be important to you know the [TS]

00:27:04   team like a like I'm glad I mean I would [TS]

00:27:08   have been kinda cool to see all of the [TS]

00:27:09   Gods is different iterations of bowie [TS]

00:27:11   but I'm glad that they went another way [TS]

00:27:13   and that they've got you know different [TS]

00:27:16   genders and different races and [TS]

00:27:17   different you know they've got a a gay [TS]

00:27:19   character there's a transgender [TS]

00:27:21   character like and it's not a big deal [TS]

00:27:23   like when Cassandra is revealed to be [TS]

00:27:25   trans it's just like and you know Lucy's [TS]

00:27:29   like oh I said this thing to hurt you [TS]

00:27:30   and she's like it did and that's like [TS]

00:27:32   it's not about my god and I really [TS]

00:27:35   really loved that [TS]

00:27:36   yeah that's a real big strength to the [TS]

00:27:38   books in my opinion and my trans friends [TS]

00:27:41   love it and i absolutely love it so it's [TS]

00:27:44   not and I feel confident and like okay [TS]

00:27:46   this is representation done right and so [TS]

00:27:49   that can do it gives me more motivation [TS]

00:27:51   to continue reading to you know it's um [TS]

00:27:53   I i think it's hot it's a hard read i [TS]

00:27:57   would six against for somebody for [TS]

00:27:59   somebody i was thinking about you while [TS]

00:28:00   I was reading it because because moline [TS]

00:28:02   because as a relatively new comics [TS]

00:28:04   reader it is dense it is that's why I [TS]

00:28:06   kept coming back to watch men is it was [TS]

00:28:08   the same thing where I feel like every [TS]

00:28:10   time I read it i'm noticing something [TS]

00:28:12   different and that's definitely how it [TS]

00:28:13   was the first [TS]

00:28:14   billion times i read watchmen where [TS]

00:28:16   there's what's the other the words on [TS]

00:28:18   the page and then there's the art and [TS]

00:28:19   then there's the things that are [TS]

00:28:20   embedded in the art and they actually [TS]

00:28:22   mean something they're not just there to [TS]

00:28:25   make a pretty background they are things [TS]

00:28:27   that will take you to interesting [TS]

00:28:29   shadings of meaning of the story if you [TS]

00:28:31   were looking at them so it really it [TS]

00:28:35   survives multiple readings and in fact [TS]

00:28:37   almost demands multiple readings and but [TS]

00:28:40   if that does make it dents and it isn't [TS]

00:28:42   it isn't very welcoming [TS]

00:28:44   i would say you suit sort of have to go [TS]

00:28:46   with it and hope hope to catch up later [TS]

00:28:48   and admitting that I think it attaches [TS]

00:28:51   to the plot to where Laura until she [TS]

00:28:54   kind of falls all the way in and get at [TS]

00:28:57   and you get your bearings a little bit [TS]

00:28:59   which of course is swept away from you [TS]

00:29:00   at the end of volume to it you know you [TS]

00:29:03   are you are lost in the world because [TS]

00:29:05   she doesn't have enough information and [TS]

00:29:07   she's really are members into our [TS]

00:29:08   representative in this world so it's a [TS]

00:29:10   tough night I mean it's it is [TS]

00:29:12   challenging and dense you know in a way [TS]

00:29:14   that I'm not a lot of comics that ivory [TS]

00:29:16   actually I feel like I hadn't been kind [TS]

00:29:18   of challenge this way by a comment on a [TS]

00:29:20   long time I was kind of having a [TS]

00:29:22   reminders of when I used to reach a ton [TS]

00:29:24   of vertigo stuff and it really helped [TS]

00:29:26   like that but matically and density [TS]

00:29:29   I you know one of my favorite comics is [TS]

00:29:31   a hundred bullets and every time a new [TS]

00:29:34   volume would come out i would reread all [TS]

00:29:36   the previous volume again in preparation [TS]

00:29:39   for reading it so like I've read volume [TS]

00:29:40   one of a hundred bullets more than 13 [TS]

00:29:42   times because they're 13 right and like [TS]

00:29:46   that's a comic I love it's not a comic I [TS]

00:29:47   recommend to a lot of people because i [TS]

00:29:49   don't think it has broad appeal but it's [TS]

00:29:50   a super-dense um but I mean it's nice to [TS]

00:29:54   be challenged by but it was also like [TS]

00:29:56   this is this is an unfamiliar feeling [TS]

00:29:58   like I don't know if I dislike this but [TS]

00:29:59   this is you know this isn't something [TS]

00:30:01   comics have really pushed on me in a [TS]

00:30:02   while you're right that this is a very [TS]

00:30:04   vertical feeling read though because it [TS]

00:30:07   is it celebrates it celebrates the [TS]

00:30:09   culture that is not necessarily [TS]

00:30:11   mainstream and that culture has its own [TS]

00:30:12   rules and its own rewards and it makes [TS]

00:30:16   the argument that people who are called [TS]

00:30:18   people who choose that culture are still [TS]

00:30:20   inherently worthy of you no interest in [TS]

00:30:22   love and respect and all those other [TS]

00:30:24   things as well they're not just people [TS]

00:30:25   who look weird have strange interest [TS]

00:30:27   really like and like I mean in some ways [TS]

00:30:29   it's it like there's some stuff like [TS]

00:30:31   going back likes that's in that Sandman [TS]

00:30:33   didn't stories that was kind of like [TS]

00:30:34   revolutionary this time that feels like [TS]

00:30:37   you know some of it is great and it [TS]

00:30:39   doesn't still holds up and some of it is [TS]

00:30:40   like kind of very dated in terms of like [TS]

00:30:42   the society in terms of when it was [TS]

00:30:44   written so it's nice to see something [TS]

00:30:45   you know that's that's taking on some of [TS]

00:30:47   those those attitudes that you know in a [TS]

00:30:49   more modern way right and my style for [TS]

00:30:53   reading comic books because I'm a I'm a [TS]

00:30:55   reader first and foremost rate is I go [TS]

00:30:57   through and I read the words and then I [TS]

00:30:58   go through a second time and I i read [TS]

00:31:00   the words and look at the art and I'm [TS]

00:31:02   not a very patient reader just so i [TS]

00:31:06   think that was i I actually don't know [TS]

00:31:10   how much the art helps in like the the [TS]

00:31:13   conceptual things and as you're going [TS]

00:31:16   along but and it's I mean it does [TS]

00:31:20   definitely add depth to the story and [TS]

00:31:23   but yeah i was i was confused a lot that [TS]

00:31:28   yes i have really make their points when [TS]

00:31:30   I was confused and had to reread a [TS]

00:31:32   couple of pages [TS]

00:31:33   yeah yeah and i think i'm still confused [TS]

00:31:35   yeah together certainly things that [TS]

00:31:37   still need to be answered together and I [TS]

00:31:38   think you know some of that I think [TS]

00:31:40   you're supposed to be confused some of [TS]

00:31:41   it I don't know but I mean depends on a [TS]

00:31:44   stick the landing right yeah yeah we [TS]

00:31:46   should say that they they have said that [TS]

00:31:48   this is there is a story the this is [TS]

00:31:51   closed-ended somewhere between 30 and 60 [TS]

00:31:54   issues you know I think that's not a [TS]

00:31:56   professional comics professionals [TS]

00:31:58   admitting that the story can sometimes [TS]

00:32:00   get away from you a little bit mob or it [TS]

00:32:03   becomes unprofitable one of those are [TS]

00:32:05   approaching it with the stress in ski [TS]

00:32:06   method yeah exactly right we got no [TS]

00:32:08   wheels will spread our the middle and an [TS]

00:32:11   end or contracting as nice as we go [TS]

00:32:14   Oh God releases thinking of the end of [TS]

00:32:17   terrace [TS]

00:32:19   oh so what people think of the of the [TS]

00:32:23   i'm going to ask about the sex and i'm [TS]

00:32:26   going to ask about the gore so let's [TS]

00:32:27   start with the gore what what people [TS]

00:32:29   feel about the heads exploding and the [TS]

00:32:32   neck with without a head on it and on [TS]

00:32:36   the cover of the last issue of vol.2 too [TS]

00:32:40   much [TS]

00:32:40   not part of that part of the story I I [TS]

00:32:43   thought it was I noticed that it was [TS]

00:32:45   kind of unflinching and its depiction of [TS]

00:32:47   people getting stuff blown-up [TS]

00:32:49   unflinching yes but this this is where I [TS]

00:32:53   think Mack all these art helps it at [TS]

00:32:58   least personally for me [TS]

00:33:00   um I did not think it was nearly as gory [TS]

00:33:04   as it genuinely was because the art is [TS]

00:33:07   so clean [TS]

00:33:08   the art is so smooth it did not it did [TS]

00:33:12   not bother me as much as it might have [TS]

00:33:14   say somebody actually filming this or [TS]

00:33:17   another person style of art might do [TS]

00:33:20   um so yeah that the gore did not bother [TS]

00:33:22   me nearly as much as it could have [TS]

00:33:24   yeah I I kind of agree i we have been [TS]

00:33:27   watching the clone wars and they're [TS]

00:33:30   there have been things that have [TS]

00:33:31   bothered me more in the Clone Wars then [TS]

00:33:33   like seeing someone's head explode and [TS]

00:33:36   the panel where the judges had exploded [TS]

00:33:38   as a little like that yeah I was behind [TS]

00:33:40   I'm like I maybe could have done without [TS]

00:33:43   that but it's not a realistic thing so [TS]

00:33:46   it's my that it's its stylized [TS]

00:33:50   yeah if it were more like like The [TS]

00:33:52   Walking Dead sometimes when i read i [TS]

00:33:54   have trouble looking at some of those [TS]

00:33:56   panels and unfortunately it's not in [TS]

00:33:58   color so that helps a lot [TS]

00:34:00   I had stopped reading the walking dead [TS]

00:34:02   because of the way they depicted a lot [TS]

00:34:03   of the stuff we actually yeah I mean [TS]

00:34:05   it'sit's graphic and it's gritty I'm [TS]

00:34:07   trying to remember now i can't remember [TS]

00:34:08   the name of the series that's American [TS]

00:34:11   vampire you been stealing your whining [TS]

00:34:14   love this story but some of the art I [TS]

00:34:16   was just like who don't miss the the [TS]

00:34:19   walking dead i would i would say was [TS]

00:34:22   when it's ugly it's like it when it's [TS]

00:34:25   was graphic it's ugly and women in the [TS]

00:34:27   divine is not something I would ever [TS]

00:34:29   call ugly even when it's wrong laughing [TS]

00:34:31   it's sort of beautifully graphic but it [TS]

00:34:34   still can be gross and unpleasant and [TS]

00:34:36   they're definitely panels in this that I [TS]

00:34:37   that I find kind of yucky but that [TS]

00:34:40   doesn't mean that I don't think that [TS]

00:34:42   they're beautifully rendered in a way [TS]

00:34:44   that that the walking dead you know it [TS]

00:34:46   was gross stuff render dug in an ugly [TS]

00:34:48   way I thought a lot of the time now i [TS]

00:34:51   should add that to my all-time favorite [TS]

00:34:53   series [TS]

00:34:54   are the authority and preacher oh so my [TS]

00:34:58   so my tolerance for how much gore is [TS]

00:35:03   acceptable in a comic book me a little [TS]

00:35:06   maybe a little bit hot wire for the rest [TS]

00:35:08   of this but um I think in the context of [TS]

00:35:15   this book the gore is shocking because [TS]

00:35:18   I'm the art is so beautiful and this is [TS]

00:35:22   not a particularly gritty world you know [TS]

00:35:25   I mean even when you're in Subway's it [TS]

00:35:27   is still like you're focusing on how [TS]

00:35:30   beautifully composed each panel is and [TS]

00:35:32   how like there's a lot of that there [TS]

00:35:35   they do a lot of visual imagery that [TS]

00:35:36   weighs on some very romantic notions of [TS]

00:35:39   what it's like to be in a train station [TS]

00:35:40   what it's like to be in a darkened and [TS]

00:35:42   empty public space and so because it's [TS]

00:35:46   so beautiful and so meticulously [TS]

00:35:48   composed and so romantic that it's feels [TS]

00:35:52   jarring when you do see like a headless [TS]

00:35:54   stuff neck because like oh I don't [TS]

00:35:56   recall that in any of the millions of [TS]

00:35:59   rock videos i mean line on MTV or any of [TS]

00:36:02   the tumblers I follow or anything like [TS]

00:36:03   that just like oh you know whereas like [TS]

00:36:06   if I saw a shot like this authority I'd [TS]

00:36:08   be like well Frank Quitely is going easy [TS]

00:36:10   on us this month so that's our what [TS]

00:36:16   about the what about this sort of like a [TS]

00:36:18   not just sex but but all of the section [TS]

00:36:22   hedonism this is about God's and a [TS]

00:36:24   Pantheon and famously you know I mean we [TS]

00:36:27   we have Dionysus in here for pete's sake [TS]

00:36:29   right with their there so I'm curious i [TS]

00:36:31   really i also want to mention in [TS]

00:36:33   particular the rave issue which is is [TS]

00:36:38   all bright colors and laura gets really [TS]

00:36:43   kind of candy car caught up in it and [TS]

00:36:45   it's terrifying ultimately but but a [TS]

00:36:48   very interesting in a in a different way [TS]

00:36:51   there's also a scene that we see very [TS]

00:36:54   briefly of a of an orgy [TS]

00:36:56   that's being put on by one of the Gods [TS]

00:36:59   to so i'm just i'm curious what people [TS]

00:37:00   what people think about how that stuff [TS]

00:37:02   is portrayed in this if you've got any [TS]

00:37:03   thoughts about that i partly because I [TS]

00:37:06   think so early [TS]

00:37:07   on its kind of established that one of [TS]

00:37:10   the things that these reincarnated gods [TS]

00:37:12   are doing is having all the sex all the [TS]

00:37:15   time that that it didn't surprise me and [TS]

00:37:19   therefore I was just I kept reading I [TS]

00:37:23   don't remember being phased by by it [TS]

00:37:26   terribly much mean they're teenagers [TS]

00:37:28   with two years to live there was sex is [TS]

00:37:30   consensual and I'm a lot less bothered [TS]

00:37:32   by that I was by the first by one of the [TS]

00:37:35   first few instances of sex is on Sandman [TS]

00:37:37   for example where it's much more [TS]

00:37:39   disturbing especially the 24 hours in [TS]

00:37:41   the diner episode issue [TS]

00:37:43   yeah oh yeah he's like oh my god yeah [TS]

00:37:47   yeah yeah I'm you know you know and and [TS]

00:37:50   sex drugs and rock and roll [TS]

00:37:52   yeah i mean that that's definitely the [TS]

00:37:55   theme here [TS]

00:37:56   no I mean I think the thing that bothers [TS]

00:37:57   me more than anything else if i'm going [TS]

00:37:59   to read is is the the creeping more to [TS]

00:38:02   is the fact that you have a god that [TS]

00:38:05   people are fighting who is a 12 year old [TS]

00:38:07   child and everybody is is sort of [TS]

00:38:09   ignoring the fact that she's going to be [TS]

00:38:10   dead before she's 15 and interrupting [TS]

00:38:13   her parents are rope making as much [TS]

00:38:14   money as possible or their hundred [TS]

00:38:16   dollars you get a personal blessing [TS]

00:38:17   member yeah it's but I get the the her [TS]

00:38:19   fellow gods are protective of her [TS]

00:38:22   yeah i think there's one taking care of [TS]

00:38:24   his best again [TS]

00:38:25   yeah and she's aware that's the first [TS]

00:38:27   thing we hear from her and she's you [TS]

00:38:29   know in and as they take Laura back to [TS]

00:38:33   kinda meet some of these gods when [TS]

00:38:35   Lucy's in jail [TS]

00:38:36   she's like I'm gonna be dead before you [TS]

00:38:38   know what I'm 14 [TS]

00:38:39   you don't like the first first [TS]

00:38:41   introduction we get to her those are [TS]

00:38:43   some of the first words out of her mouth [TS]

00:38:45   yeah that's the interesting thing about [TS]

00:38:48   this setup right is that the idea is [TS]

00:38:50   that there are people but they're also [TS]

00:38:51   gods and there's that duality there in [TS]

00:38:53   the cod portion of them with their [TS]

00:38:55   unclear right whether they're always [TS]

00:38:57   gods and just are wide awake into it or [TS]

00:38:59   whether they're there or is this more [TS]

00:39:01   sinister where they are sort of chosen [TS]

00:39:03   and the God essence is going to pour [TS]

00:39:05   into them and print them out after two [TS]

00:39:06   years the gods are immortal and they'll [TS]

00:39:09   come back in 90 years but those people [TS]

00:39:11   in this lion are gone and do do they [TS]

00:39:14   have the ability to steal years from [TS]

00:39:16   each other do they [TS]

00:39:18   yeah well the that this is the thing is [TS]

00:39:20   I'm so [TS]

00:39:21   guys we haven't seen the phrase human [TS]

00:39:22   sacrifice put into context yet because [TS]

00:39:24   that's what these children effectively [TS]

00:39:26   are is they're human sacrifices to this [TS]

00:39:29   notion that the divinity is supposed to [TS]

00:39:31   touch everybody around them and that's [TS]

00:39:34   how the world gets changes people come [TS]

00:39:35   away from their experience with the [TS]

00:39:36   ground changed it ripples out one of the [TS]

00:39:41   things we're talking about now I promise [TS]

00:39:43   this is not spoiler but one of the the [TS]

00:39:45   the things you're talking about with out [TS]

00:39:47   whether or not these people are like the [TS]

00:39:50   effect of being a god on the person like [TS]

00:39:52   there's a there's an issue in the third [TS]

00:39:54   trade that goes into that in [TS]

00:39:55   excruciating detail and it's a beautiful [TS]

00:39:57   and horrible issue help the same time [TS]

00:39:59   and like I had to go right I i had to [TS]

00:40:01   like put down that the book and [TS]

00:40:02   decompress after reading it but it's [TS]

00:40:04   like oh my god this is so smart [TS]

00:40:06   let's hide it so you won't have that to [TS]

00:40:10   look forward to [TS]

00:40:10   i guess.i guess well we'll get there i [TS]

00:40:13   wanted i want to mention i thought it [TS]

00:40:15   was really interesting but the at the at [TS]

00:40:19   the convention there is a panel that a [TS]

00:40:22   former girlfriend of Woden is on MH and [TS]

00:40:26   he walks in and basically tempts her to [TS]

00:40:30   come back into his circle and is it but [TS]

00:40:34   she has to admit that everything [TS]

00:40:35   terrible she's saying about him is a lie [TS]

00:40:37   and then he and then he makes the his [TS]

00:40:41   little pink suit thing evaporate and [TS]

00:40:44   walks out on her and that publicly yeah [TS]

00:40:47   that's a really important is really [TS]

00:40:49   interesting characters here we don't see [TS]

00:40:50   his face hehe implies that he's been [TS]

00:40:52   horribly horribly scarred and and can't [TS]

00:40:56   be right upon and he's also the one who [TS]

00:40:59   is sort of like shamelessly just as [TS]

00:41:00   building a harem and wants to have sex [TS]

00:41:03   with as many women as he can before he [TS]

00:41:05   dies [TS]

00:41:06   yeah again and plus he doesn't seem to [TS]

00:41:08   be doing much in the way of performing [TS]

00:41:10   he's like the Builder he's the one that [TS]

00:41:12   anon k comes to when he's helped me he [TS]

00:41:16   helped do things but he's not like [TS]

00:41:17   front-and-center the way some of the [TS]

00:41:19   others are no it's just it's an [TS]

00:41:22   interesting character and he does not [TS]

00:41:23   seem like a particularly pleasant person [TS]

00:41:26   Ellen on any level but he is shiny and [TS]

00:41:29   you know and then [TS]

00:41:31   I i mean i think yeah I i think that's [TS]

00:41:34   that's interesting too that he is this [TS]

00:41:35   very notably interesting-looking [TS]

00:41:37   character kind of more traditional comic [TS]

00:41:40   booky looking than anybody else in the [TS]

00:41:43   pantheon [TS]

00:41:44   but he's all he's kinda awful staff from [TS]

00:41:48   he's very easy that daft punk where the [TS]

00:41:50   identity play as part of the mistake [TS]

00:41:52   that goes with it but he's also don't [TS]

00:41:54   need submit yeah everybody hates him and [TS]

00:41:56   fearsome and they're fascinated by him [TS]

00:41:58   yeah I dr. doom seen some more of a [TS]

00:42:00   sense of humor about himself than this [TS]

00:42:01   I suppose that's true it sounds very [TS]

00:42:04   unpleasant but the horribly scarred and [TS]

00:42:06   wearing a cool outdoor thing fits when [TS]

00:42:08   you with that this this this series [TS]

00:42:10   makes me wish I were more of a music [TS]

00:42:12   nerd because i have a feeling if I were [TS]

00:42:14   I would be just tripping out over what [TS]

00:42:17   what the writers are saying about [TS]

00:42:19   specific musicians with her choosing to [TS]

00:42:20   depict or what God through their [TS]

00:42:22   choosing to to parent channel with at [TS]

00:42:25   the same time I feel like I'm missing a [TS]

00:42:27   dimension of the book because I'm not [TS]

00:42:29   big into either [TS]

00:42:31   well I mean I like music but i'm not a [TS]

00:42:32   huge music there and I don't have a lot [TS]

00:42:33   of music insider lure gospel my back [TS]

00:42:36   pocket and that's the one area where I [TS]

00:42:38   feel like I'm missing out on a facet of [TS]

00:42:40   this this experience [TS]

00:42:41   mm do you think it's intentional that [TS]

00:42:43   like that that all the fan group seemed [TS]

00:42:45   I mean not exclusively but are primarily [TS]

00:42:47   young people I wondered if that was just [TS]

00:42:51   like Laura's view on things or or some [TS]

00:42:53   kind of commentary there because that's [TS]

00:42:55   my big question is like that we now are [TS]

00:42:57   in a world where the gods come back but [TS]

00:42:59   like but everybody else is still like [TS]

00:43:01   going to work and stuff it's just [TS]

00:43:02   college kids who are like cutting class [TS]

00:43:03   they bring that out a bit with some the [TS]

00:43:06   character that one of the likely 200 [TS]

00:43:09   viously one of the ranking rocks yeah [TS]

00:43:11   this gentleman you know being all [TS]

00:43:13   cynical about yeah you kids today are [TS]

00:43:15   the kids today don't understand or [TS]

00:43:17   appreciate arm so you've got at least [TS]

00:43:21   one character voicing that kind of thing [TS]

00:43:23   and of course we know we've got a few [TS]

00:43:26   adults that show up whether it's the [TS]

00:43:29   police officers or firemen or the those [TS]

00:43:32   sort of people you know they're trying [TS]

00:43:34   to treat these kids as kids and then [TS]

00:43:36   somebody you know somebody finally tell [TS]

00:43:39   somebody else look the these these are [TS]

00:43:41   dangerous [TS]

00:43:41   these are not within your experience [TS]

00:43:44   back [TS]

00:43:44   off so you know even even Laura's [TS]

00:43:48   parents it's like you know they're these [TS]

00:43:49   like super well-meaning super supportive [TS]

00:43:51   to the point where she's trying to [TS]

00:43:54   repeal just to make them mad because [TS]

00:43:56   they never get mad so yeah that it does [TS]

00:44:00   seem extremely tightly focused on the [TS]

00:44:02   youth generation and and what adults are [TS]

00:44:06   there are not very helpful [TS]

00:44:09   it's like a nun case the most mother [TS]

00:44:11   figure that prompted that pantheon has [TS]

00:44:14   because you know every time one of them [TS]

00:44:16   you want every time she wakes up one of [TS]

00:44:17   them I missed you [TS]

00:44:19   and then when anyway I love you but [TS]

00:44:22   you're gonna die no more wire hangers [TS]

00:44:24   and I'm to know more [TS]

00:44:26   this is this is for your own goal I i [TS]

00:44:30   think i was actually thinking fan [TS]

00:44:32   dynamic something Shannon said there i [TS]

00:44:33   was reminded and Iago Erica's not here [TS]

00:44:35   I'm gonna bring up doctor who only to [TS]

00:44:37   say if you've got something like this [TS]

00:44:39   where you've got people who are not the [TS]

00:44:41   kids of the of the current generation [TS]

00:44:43   right [TS]

00:44:44   obviously there's going to be a [TS]

00:44:45   subculture of the Pantheon that is a [TS]

00:44:48   residue of the last appearance they made [TS]

00:44:50   and although all the people from men [TS]

00:44:51   have died out there is apparently enough [TS]

00:44:53   knowledge about this idea you know that [TS]

00:44:56   cassandra is able to research it that [TS]

00:44:57   you know people who are just old enough [TS]

00:45:00   of it right yeah their professors and [TS]

00:45:02   research previous you know the nineteen [TS]

00:45:04   twenties and earlier so but but when [TS]

00:45:06   they appear [TS]

00:45:07   it's like it's not for them it's like [TS]

00:45:09   it's for the current generation and it's [TS]

00:45:11   a new generation of fans essentially and [TS]

00:45:14   i think i think that is something that [TS]

00:45:16   is touched on and in this at least a [TS]

00:45:18   little bit is this idea that there's a [TS]

00:45:19   schism between like you know yeah it's [TS]

00:45:22   great that you studied this and all that [TS]

00:45:24   but these are these are the new ones and [TS]

00:45:26   this is our this is our pop music that [TS]

00:45:29   you know this is our fandom we you know [TS]

00:45:31   we're the ones who are here and that you [TS]

00:45:34   know your interests in the pantheon but [TS]

00:45:35   you know you're not part of our group [TS]

00:45:38   your euro notes that's the perfect [TS]

00:45:40   metaphor for music I mean every every [TS]

00:45:42   generation has the music that you know [TS]

00:45:45   they grew up we know whether it's he [TS]

00:45:48   knows that you 13 [TS]

00:45:49   that's their music and later music [TS]

00:45:52   business good this is a theme they mind [TS]

00:45:54   and phonogram to is it something and [TS]

00:45:57   this is like one of the center [TS]

00:45:58   no promises a phonogram is as you get [TS]

00:45:59   older your music loses the cultural [TS]

00:46:02   power and the cultural currency it once [TS]

00:46:04   had and you know this is why is it this [TS]

00:46:08   is why I feel like you kind of have to [TS]

00:46:09   both but both books like either in [TS]

00:46:11   conjunction with one another or one and [TS]

00:46:13   then the other is because phonogram is [TS]

00:46:15   also about the magic of music and how [TS]

00:46:17   it's highly specific to certain [TS]

00:46:19   generations and certain societal [TS]

00:46:21   conditions and I like honestly I like it [TS]

00:46:25   here that its young people because um it [TS]

00:46:29   goes down to people who are you know [TS]

00:46:31   teens and young adults using music as a [TS]

00:46:33   way to figure out who they are and to [TS]

00:46:35   forge their tribal identity and to forge [TS]

00:46:37   their cultural identity and be able to [TS]

00:46:38   say yeah this is when i turned into a [TS]

00:46:40   person with my own thoughts and likes [TS]

00:46:42   and dislikes and this is the soundtrack [TS]

00:46:43   that listen to while i did it and the [TS]

00:46:45   idea of having a divinity that helps [TS]

00:46:47   Midwife that process I think that's a [TS]

00:46:48   really interesting idea and kind of wrap [TS]

00:46:52   it and kind of radical i look forward to [TS]

00:46:53   seeing you know that thing that I look [TS]

00:46:56   forward to seeing as I'd love to see an [TS]

00:46:57   issue where you have somebody who lived [TS]

00:46:59   out the most of the span their lives [TS]

00:47:01   between the periods of divinities like [TS]

00:47:03   do they feel like they've missed out or [TS]

00:47:04   are they i was just going to say [TS]

00:47:05   radically different like what is what is [TS]

00:47:08   their experience a person had like [TS]

00:47:09   compared to somebody who is going [TS]

00:47:12   through this in the UK which also raises [TS]

00:47:16   from another question like why is this [TS]

00:47:17   phenomenon just isolated to Britain is [TS]

00:47:19   it because the the Raiders are good i [TS]

00:47:21   don't think i think they make the [TS]

00:47:23   reference that pops up other places [TS]

00:47:25   right does yes there's us there was a [TS]

00:47:26   South American one and this one is what [TS]

00:47:30   is Skip sometimes that bothered me to [TS]

00:47:32   that it seemed to be focused so tightly [TS]

00:47:35   on not just England but London and you [TS]

00:47:37   know all of these divinities or in [TS]

00:47:39   London and yeah there was that one brief [TS]

00:47:41   mention about South America although if [TS]

00:47:43   i remember correctly that was like that [TS]

00:47:45   one of the deities participating at some [TS]

00:47:48   point was from South America was from [TS]

00:47:51   South American mythology but not [TS]

00:47:52   necessarily that that that this [TS]

00:47:56   phenomenon happened there so that's [TS]

00:47:58   unclear to me and when we meet and the [TS]

00:48:02   one who looks like Prince and bad name's [TS]

00:48:03   Donna and Donna yet so when we meet him [TS]

00:48:07   and he talks about [TS]

00:48:10   it's good to see you again Laura and [TS]

00:48:12   she's like oh you remember me from you [TS]

00:48:14   know a couple months ago a couple weeks [TS]

00:48:17   ago and he's like no I remember you from [TS]

00:48:18   a year ago and at the at the conference [TS]

00:48:24   and she was angry instead of because one [TS]

00:48:27   of the panelists at this panel she was [TS]

00:48:29   attending was going on about how great [TS]

00:48:31   like this generation doesn't deserve [TS]

00:48:34   this and maybe this will be one of the [TS]

00:48:36   times where it skips a generation or [TS]

00:48:38   maybe it'll be like somewhere else and [TS]

00:48:40   and they mentioned like other I think [TS]

00:48:43   China and South America or something [TS]

00:48:45   so there's there's an allusion to it [TS]

00:48:48   being more and more widespread thing and [TS]

00:48:52   not necessarily consistent thing either [TS]

00:48:54   and I don't know what plays into that [TS]

00:48:56   I'm coming to pass [TS]

00:48:58   i also don't know how much of this is is [TS]

00:49:00   is British comics culture in a way cuz [TS]

00:49:03   you think about like I'm thinking about [TS]

00:49:05   the authority in the premise that every [TS]

00:49:07   hundred years of the beginning of the [TS]

00:49:09   century the earth gives birth to [TS]

00:49:10   quote-unquote century babies who [TS]

00:49:13   performed the third immunity system with [TS]

00:49:15   next 100 years and they are the spirits [TS]

00:49:17   of the technology that will transform [TS]

00:49:19   culture which is why you have Jenny [TS]

00:49:21   sparks the beading 20th century and [TS]

00:49:23   Jenny quantum the beginning 21st and [TS]

00:49:25   this seems to be something that's pretty [TS]

00:49:27   not peculiar but I've noticed a lot with [TS]

00:49:30   British comic writers is they do enjoy [TS]

00:49:33   cyclical themes and I don't know if it's [TS]

00:49:34   because you get raised on a diet of [TS]

00:49:36   Arthurian legends or what but this seems [TS]

00:49:39   to be part of it to where there's this [TS]

00:49:41   whole implication that it's cyclical and [TS]

00:49:42   it's a culture and it's paired with [TS]

00:49:44   cultural upheaval and I don't think he's [TS]

00:49:48   I again I wonder if nationality plays [TS]

00:49:50   into this and the reason why is the [TS]

00:49:52   largest is because we're approaching it [TS]

00:49:54   from a really American perspective where [TS]

00:49:56   you know the answer has always been one [TS]

00:49:58   in doubt find a frontier as opposed to [TS]

00:50:02   if you stay on this island long enough [TS]

00:50:04   Arthur will come back I've got a million [TS]

00:50:08   hail from lots of British haha that it [TS]

00:50:12   while they're going to also tell us but [TS]

00:50:13   we just completely missed all of the [TS]

00:50:14   important British references that are in [TS]

00:50:16   the [TS]

00:50:16   that probably we probably did yeah I [TS]

00:50:19   hope you to one of the Americans they [TS]

00:50:21   always wanted one of the annotations I [TS]

00:50:23   saw mentioned how the building that [TS]

00:50:26   hosts the convention that apparently [TS]

00:50:28   there's some cable car thing now that [TS]

00:50:31   you can like right across the Thames and [TS]

00:50:32   it's not there and the person annotating [TS]

00:50:36   it was wondering if it was because the [TS]

00:50:37   the Member of Parliament behind it was a [TS]

00:50:41   really big in a jerk [TS]

00:50:42   so who knows that's because there are no [TS]

00:50:45   gods in the actual London and so it's [TS]

00:50:47   obviously a different world then yeah um [TS]

00:50:51   anything more about the wicked and the [TS]

00:50:54   divine i'm looking forward to reading [TS]

00:50:55   vol 3 which I have not read yet because [TS]

00:50:57   i was saving it until after this podcast [TS]

00:50:59   so I wouldn't like violate the the end [TS]

00:51:03   spoil the results in some way so I want [TS]

00:51:07   is sitting on my iPad ready for me I [TS]

00:51:10   gave in after least was encouraging that [TS]

00:51:12   you know after I'm finished second so [TS]

00:51:14   yes i-i've read the the three volumes [TS]

00:51:16   and i'm probably going to dig up the [TS]

00:51:18   issues that are currently out as [TS]

00:51:20   Singleton's you listen to lisa lisa is a [TS]

00:51:22   nibbler she doesn't think it all started [TS]

00:51:24   tonight that is what we do [TS]

00:51:26   yeah yeah I'm really enjoying it i don't [TS]

00:51:30   know if it's a comic that I would [TS]

00:51:31   recommend to a lot of people um as much [TS]

00:51:33   as other comics that I won't show up to [TS]

00:51:35   two people about so I like it but I [TS]

00:51:38   don't know if this is one that I'm gonna [TS]

00:51:39   like be running running around hitting [TS]

00:51:41   people over the head with it [TS]

00:51:42   yeah this one it rewards being smart it [TS]

00:51:45   rewards being knowledgeable and you know [TS]

00:51:47   not everybody looks at comics for that I [TS]

00:51:49   thought you're gonna say something about [TS]

00:51:50   me know what we said about it being [TS]

00:51:55   dense and looking at footnotes and all [TS]

00:51:57   that is not what i would certainly have [TS]

00:51:59   I think you've got to be a well I i did [TS]

00:52:03   the interesting what a lien has to say [TS]

00:52:05   about this and she already touched on a [TS]

00:52:06   little bit i would recommend this much [TS]

00:52:07   more to somebody who is a bit more of a [TS]

00:52:09   veteran comic book reader who is kind of [TS]

00:52:12   a confident in their ability to dive [TS]

00:52:14   into something super dense this is the [TS]

00:52:17   other the ramp up on this is a is pretty [TS]

00:52:19   or somebody is a music nerd and we can [TS]

00:52:21   take some more references you just [TS]

00:52:23   really misses vertigo because you're [TS]

00:52:25   such a dude this is such a vertical book [TS]

00:52:28   and I think back to all well the [TS]

00:52:30   this one that I felt like I had to do [TS]

00:52:31   this much homework on and I mean [TS]

00:52:33   homework in a good way was the unwritten [TS]

00:52:35   mi querido yeah yeah yeah yeah and [TS]

00:52:38   that's another one like oh god oh god oh [TS]

00:52:40   god this makes me feel really bad for [TS]

00:52:42   for AP testing out of all of my [TS]

00:52:44   literature requirements in college [TS]

00:52:45   because I could have used another [TS]

00:52:46   literature class but if you like to hear [TS]

00:52:48   us talk about the unwritten by the way [TS]

00:52:50   you can tune into in comfortable episode [TS]

00:52:52   number two way back in awhile way that [TS]

00:52:56   matters to me is that episode about like [TS]

00:52:59   all of comics was that back when we [TS]

00:53:01   recover yet so always about it was about [TS]

00:53:02   the unwritten although i think we [TS]

00:53:04   descended into discussions of vertigo in [TS]

00:53:06   general at that point but yeah but it [TS]

00:53:07   was very specifically the unwritten was [TS]

00:53:09   what we were reading which is good [TS]

00:53:11   that's a good that's a good comic I I [TS]

00:53:12   like a lot of my carry stuff only image [TS]

00:53:14   comics is kind of turning into the [TS]

00:53:16   vertigo of this decade could be a lean [TS]

00:53:19   so overall would you as a as I a newer [TS]

00:53:22   comic reader would you steer people away [TS]

00:53:24   from with the wicked the divine if they [TS]

00:53:26   weren't confident in their comic reading [TS]

00:53:28   skills or what is it ok i don't know [TS]

00:53:30   honestly i I just I think it depends [TS]

00:53:33   upon the person I i wish i could say [TS]

00:53:35   yepper note but i think and i think that [TS]

00:53:39   if it's a person who is patient and [TS]

00:53:41   willing to go back and read it again and [TS]

00:53:43   mr maybe is better at me than me than [TS]

00:53:46   looking at the artists they go or [TS]

00:53:48   whatever then you know definitely go for [TS]

00:53:50   it and it's definitely not as light as [TS]

00:53:54   you know getting into marvel comic books [TS]

00:53:56   where you can just have to dive in and [TS]

00:53:57   read and not you know like Miss Marple I [TS]

00:53:59   love miss marvel I don't have to think a [TS]

00:54:01   whole lot when i read the smartphone but [TS]

00:54:04   but what you want yeah great unless I [TS]

00:54:06   want you and you definitely can't and [TS]

00:54:08   but with this it was it was just like I [TS]

00:54:11   need to be in the mood for something [TS]

00:54:12   more and intellectual I don't think [TS]

00:54:17   that's quite the right word but you know [TS]

00:54:19   just just need to sit down and think and [TS]

00:54:21   be able to pay attention it's not [TS]

00:54:23   something I can do half way and so I [TS]

00:54:25   think that would be my criteria more [TS]

00:54:27   than you know whether their veteran [TS]

00:54:28   reader of comics or not or look inside [TS]

00:54:31   yourself cereal part of the Pantheon and [TS]

00:54:34   it's true then continue and and read the [TS]

00:54:40   weaker than the divine [TS]

00:54:41   any other final thoughts about about [TS]

00:54:43   this this comic before we remove i'm [TS]

00:54:46   going to be a ridiculous geek and say I [TS]

00:54:48   now have a second favorite letter in [TS]

00:54:51   comics the first is talk wine and [TS]

00:54:53   clayton cows is now my second favorite [TS]

00:54:55   yes he's doing great work yeah the [TS]

00:54:57   different styles here and there he [TS]

00:54:59   fluctuates between who's speaking and [TS]

00:55:02   home and Laura's thoughts versus the [TS]

00:55:05   actual narration and you can always hide [TS]

00:55:08   it so i noticed i mean i usually don't [TS]

00:55:10   notice lettering but you know I noticed [TS]

00:55:12   Todd klein and Sandman and other works [TS]

00:55:14   he's done yet and I was noticing Clayton [TS]

00:55:16   cowls and his work all the way through [TS]

00:55:18   I've actually put down books because I [TS]

00:55:20   couldn't stand the lettering so I end [TS]

00:55:22   with you on this I appreciate that i [TS]

00:55:24   just wanted to talk about the art just a [TS]

00:55:26   second more because there are so many [TS]

00:55:28   different not the different styles but [TS]

00:55:31   that coloring I think rather than the [TS]

00:55:33   art is what i'm looking more like if you [TS]

00:55:35   look at one of the first and one of the [TS]

00:55:38   first panels in the second volume is and [TS]

00:55:43   kind of like a flashback 21 when Lucy [TS]

00:55:46   dies in the art style and that it's [TS]

00:55:48   white with like neon colored lines and [TS]

00:55:53   the art style can on those panels like [TS]

00:55:55   where the judges again the judges had [TS]

00:55:57   explodes [TS]

00:55:58   you know it's it's different and it's [TS]

00:56:01   and it's a really interesting contrast [TS]

00:56:04   that I'm not seeing and maybe this is [TS]

00:56:06   the vertigo style that you're talking [TS]

00:56:07   about but it's a contrast that I'm not [TS]

00:56:08   seeing in kind of superhero comics that [TS]

00:56:11   i'm reading or you know again the what [TS]

00:56:12   black-and-white walking dead you know [TS]

00:56:14   volumes so I don't know it just never [TS]

00:56:17   really loved it [TS]

00:56:18   yeah I think you're right on that yeah [TS]

00:56:20   the art that they are doing things with [TS]

00:56:22   art to emphasize what's going on in the [TS]

00:56:25   plot what's going on with the characters [TS]

00:56:27   like we mentioned with the Dionysus [TS]

00:56:29   issue of just how everything is so [TS]

00:56:30   cotton candy pink um during the rave and [TS]

00:56:33   everything is going on that just um [TS]

00:56:35   really typifies what's what's happening [TS]

00:56:37   in the story but something that you made [TS]

00:56:41   reminded me of there's an issue in the [TS]

00:56:43   second volume and you may be the one [TS]

00:56:44   you're talking about where they actually [TS]

00:56:46   deliberately made most of the story by [TS]

00:56:49   recycling previous panels they actually [TS]

00:56:52   like went and scavenger hunted [TS]

00:56:54   through all of those previous things and [TS]

00:56:57   made almost the entire issue with no [TS]

00:57:00   brand new art which was really [TS]

00:57:02   interesting [TS]

00:57:03   yeah i just i think that it's I think [TS]

00:57:05   it's great let's uh let's move on and [TS]

00:57:08   talk about if there are other comics [TS]

00:57:10   that you have read recently this is a [TS]

00:57:12   shot in the dark but it usually gets [TS]

00:57:13   usually Lisa tells us things we have to [TS]

00:57:15   read [TS]

00:57:16   let's just call this Lisa tells us what [TS]

00:57:18   to read but if there is what what if [TS]

00:57:20   there are any other comics are reading i [TS]

00:57:21   would love to hear about Alisa what-what [TS]

00:57:24   do what are we reading next [TS]

00:57:26   what do you tell what do you really [TS]

00:57:27   liking now ok i just finished unbeatable [TS]

00:57:31   schoolgirl volumes 1 & 2 & comment and [TS]

00:57:36   then I read them to my daughter and [TS]

00:57:37   she's 5 and she now love squirrel girl [TS]

00:57:41   passionately like sleeps with the sleeps [TS]

00:57:44   with the the issues under her under her [TS]

00:57:46   pillow and the reason i would recommend [TS]

00:57:49   this to both adults and as a family [TS]

00:57:51   friendly book is because the way the [TS]

00:57:53   book is structured is you can read to [TS]

00:57:55   kids and it's just as very cheery [TS]

00:57:59   positive joyful book about being a young [TS]

00:58:04   woman who loves being in college and [TS]

00:58:07   loves being a superhero at the same time [TS]

00:58:09   and there are all of these really clever [TS]

00:58:12   extra textural jokes and then these [TS]

00:58:15   footnotes at the bottom of the page that [TS]

00:58:16   are just downright hysterical so it's it [TS]

00:58:21   can be a fast and funny and [TS]

00:58:22   non-challenging right if that's what [TS]

00:58:23   you're into or it can be a little bit [TS]

00:58:25   more of a deep dive if you're like like [TS]

00:58:26   turned out so loved and read the [TS]

00:58:29   unbeatable squirrel girl right after I [TS]

00:58:32   went to see hell Caesar I when I read [TS]

00:58:35   all three volumes of at brubakers on to [TS]

00:58:38   our book the fade out which centers on [TS]

00:58:41   the murder of a Hollywood starlet [TS]

00:58:43   nineteen fifties the fixer who may [TS]

00:58:47   actually not be responsible and it [TS]

00:58:49   crosses over into the impact of the Red [TS]

00:58:51   Scare on Hollywood and what it's like to [TS]

00:58:54   be a writer who's living with PTSD in a [TS]

00:58:57   time when like nobody knew what that was [TS]

00:58:59   or even identified it its it's nourish [TS]

00:59:01   and because I'm somebody who likes [TS]

00:59:03   Raymond Chandler novels a lot i liked it [TS]

00:59:06   and I thought the fit-out was a really [TS]

00:59:07   nice total counter [TS]

00:59:08   point to the common brothers take on the [TS]

00:59:12   same period in inhale Caesar else that i [TS]

00:59:16   read recently the third trade paperback [TS]

00:59:19   for God hates astronauts came home and [TS]

00:59:22   that is one of the most exuberantly [TS]

00:59:23   stupid books and comics like it's just [TS]

00:59:26   dumb it is it is it is ryan braun is [TS]

00:59:29   like is is a sivaji it is a lot when it [TS]

00:59:33   comes to doing really unrepentantly [TS]

00:59:38   stupid hilarious stuff I hadn't come I [TS]

00:59:42   mean you have you have a king tiger [TS]

00:59:45   eating a cheeseburger who and who [TS]

00:59:47   launches invasion against earth using an [TS]

00:59:49   army of crab people who can be eaten the [TS]

00:59:53   lead character who had his head punched [TS]

00:59:55   off in like the first trade and merged [TS]

00:59:57   with the ghost cow is still you know [TS]

00:59:57   with the ghost cow is still you know [TS]

01:00:00   fully done with his with his wife who [TS]

01:00:01   was also super hero [TS]

01:00:03   it's it's it's a book that makes almost [TS]

01:00:05   no sense if you haven't been reading it [TS]

01:00:07   from the first trade and i love it so [TS]

01:00:09   much because it is just so so broad and [TS]

01:00:12   video and um Lexi and I finally finished [TS]

01:00:16   the she-hulk run done by kind of [TS]

01:00:21   Lincoln's last name sue shoot souls [TS]

01:00:23   Charles Charles souls i finally finished [TS]

01:00:25   the she-hulk round that he did and it [TS]

01:00:28   had a lovely and satisfying ending and [TS]

01:00:30   I'm sorry that he's not continue on that [TS]

01:00:31   book and I hope that someday she hulk [TS]

01:00:33   gets the gets the Hawkeye experience [TS]

01:00:37   where the right team like the right [TS]

01:00:39   audience finds the book and embraces it [TS]

01:00:41   and sort of carries it forward because [TS]

01:00:43   it was a lot of fun and they actually [TS]

01:00:45   show doing a lot of Lord lawyer type [TS]

01:00:47   stuff and they made that pretty [TS]

01:00:49   interesting which is which is a big [TS]

01:00:50   challenge so those are the books I've [TS]

01:00:53   been reading recently [TS]

01:00:54   alright okay I Tony what are you reading [TS]

01:00:58   well I'm i also read the the intro [TS]

01:01:03   breaker book that uh Lisa was reading [TS]

01:01:05   which I also i read as a follow up to [TS]

01:01:07   fate al which is his with the same [TS]

01:01:10   author I breaker and an artist I think [TS]

01:01:14   Shaun Phillips which is basically kind [TS]

01:01:16   of AR Anwar with mixed with the lumix [TS]

01:01:20   which was interesting i also mentioned i [TS]

01:01:23   just recently read those recommended to [TS]

01:01:26   me by a librarian so i'll share that [TS]

01:01:28   recommendation on to you [TS]

01:01:29   Southern Cross is a kind of of murder [TS]

01:01:32   mystery set in space about a woman who [TS]

01:01:36   is looking for her sister who [TS]

01:01:37   disappeared on a tanker flight to the [TS]

01:01:40   the moon of Titan and I like like [TS]

01:01:44   something space i really like the fuse [TS]

01:01:46   which is murder mysteries in space and [TS]

01:01:48   seven crosses a little bit more of that [TS]

01:01:50   with some kind of weird kind of trippy [TS]

01:01:52   70 style art so that was pretty [TS]

01:01:54   interesting read the first following [TS]

01:01:55   with that and I [TS]

01:01:56   and looking forward to more volumes of [TS]

01:01:58   that I had I haven't started a new [TS]

01:02:00   series a long time and I just already [TS]

01:02:02   squirrel girl because Lisa told me to so [TS]

01:02:04   badly so she does that [TS]

01:02:07   so Shannon do you have anything that [TS]

01:02:09   you'd like to recommend that you've been [TS]

01:02:10   looking at [TS]

01:02:11   well unfortunately i have been so [TS]

01:02:13   swamped at work i have gotten very [TS]

01:02:14   little reading done in general and most [TS]

01:02:17   of it's been for the foot podcast but I [TS]

01:02:19   did manage to finally get Sandman [TS]

01:02:23   overture done in red [TS]

01:02:26   yes it took me this long but yes to it [TS]

01:02:29   because i am all things a man i'm a huge [TS]

01:02:32   fan of gaming and anything game and does [TS]

01:02:34   so once this was completed in a trade [TS]

01:02:38   paperback format [TS]

01:02:39   I I I grabbed it and i bought it in and [TS]

01:02:43   I enjoyed it [TS]

01:02:44   alright and leave anything other than [TS]

01:02:46   the things that we assigned you for for [TS]

01:02:47   this anything else that you've been [TS]

01:02:49   reading and liking and agent same as the [TS]

01:02:52   last episode honestly and miss marvel [TS]

01:02:54   the German hologram squirrel girl i [TS]

01:02:56   really like i really love her approach [TS]

01:02:58   to problem solving and because she [TS]

01:03:01   doesn't just like beat him up she she [TS]

01:03:04   solves problems and I appreciate that [TS]

01:03:06   and I have the 2014 round of Black Widow [TS]

01:03:11   which i haven't dived into quite yet and [TS]

01:03:15   and then yeah that's about it [TS]

01:03:18   alright and then for me i'll say in [TS]

01:03:22   addition to yes the wicked the divine [TS]

01:03:23   I've been reading only one of midnighter [TS]

01:03:28   the Joe orlando comic about the from [TS]

01:03:31   from from the pages of the authority and [TS]

01:03:35   I think he's an interesting guy i it's [TS]

01:03:39   it's violent but funny and kind of weird [TS]

01:03:42   and I find him enjoyable and that this [TS]

01:03:45   is the midnight or after he and he and [TS]

01:03:47   his husband have a split up and so he's [TS]

01:03:51   he's like on his own and has his [TS]

01:03:53   everybody knows he's the midnighter and [TS]

01:03:56   he's on tinder or Grindr or whatever as [TS]

01:03:58   the midnighter and he just dates dates [TS]

01:04:01   people and is the midnighter and it's [TS]

01:04:03   fascinating and interesting and strange [TS]

01:04:06   and I like it [TS]

01:04:08   thanks to thanks to Joe steal for [TS]

01:04:10   recommending that actually on Twitter so [TS]

01:04:13   quick question do they explain why the [TS]

01:04:15   marriage falls apart [TS]

01:04:16   no it's not dealt with it all in the [TS]

01:04:18   first issue and and this is like new 52 [TS]

01:04:20   stuff so for all i know everything's [TS]

01:04:22   been red card out of existence i have no [TS]

01:04:24   idea all i know is he's single and [TS]

01:04:26   coming out of a bad relationship and [TS]

01:04:28   still like beaten people up and killing [TS]

01:04:30   them and stuff because they're bad and [TS]

01:04:33   has a computer in his head [TS]

01:04:35   actually the the theme of my last couple [TS]

01:04:36   months of comic reading has been [TS]

01:04:38   revisiting it's sort of like what Tony [TS]

01:04:39   said about you you get new issues and [TS]

01:04:41   you have to read the old issues again I [TS]

01:04:44   did that with saga it turned out that [TS]

01:04:45   there are about eight issues of saga [TS]

01:04:47   that I just lets it because I kind of [TS]

01:04:48   got soggy it out after a while and so I [TS]

01:04:51   went back to the beginning I read all of [TS]

01:04:53   saga and then read the last year's worth [TS]

01:04:55   of issues that i hadn't read and it was [TS]

01:04:57   really enjoyable I think I found my love [TS]

01:05:00   of Frank avon saga and Fiona staples [TS]

01:05:03   saga again after putting iikind of [TS]

01:05:06   overdosed on it so i put it aside for [TS]

01:05:08   for like a year away where you left it [TS]

01:05:10   because that's that's where things [TS]

01:05:11   always are yeah that's what you looking [TS]

01:05:12   at i just put it on you know what no i [TS]

01:05:14   wasn't i had to start from the beginning [TS]

01:05:15   again because I totally lost I literally [TS]

01:05:17   could not remember where I even left off [TS]

01:05:19   its it was only this the last place you [TS]

01:05:21   look now and then are similarly and more [TS]

01:05:24   pointedly for morning glories which i [TS]

01:05:26   really like but we have that one day [TS]

01:05:28   cannot it it's so wildly complicated a [TS]

01:05:32   story and it's convoluted and there's [TS]

01:05:34   time travel and three-time loops and [TS]

01:05:37   just crazy stuff happens in morning [TS]

01:05:39   glories and I i read i inhaled like the [TS]

01:05:43   first for trades or something and then [TS]

01:05:45   it's been like a year or so year or two [TS]

01:05:47   and I realized that I had no idea i [TS]

01:05:49   picked up one of the issues i haven't [TS]

01:05:51   read and realize that no idea what's [TS]

01:05:52   going on so I went back to the beginning [TS]

01:05:53   and read from the start all the way [TS]

01:05:55   through the current issue which is [TS]

01:05:57   number 49 and number 50 comes out in [TS]

01:05:59   like a week or two and it closed it caps [TS]

01:06:02   and arc and it's very exciting and if [TS]

01:06:04   you're a fan of I'd say lost is the best [TS]

01:06:07   analog it's like lost the comic book [TS]

01:06:09   except set in a in a boarding school but [TS]

01:06:12   it is like lost it has stuff where [TS]

01:06:15   you're like what just happened and is [TS]

01:06:17   that time travel and it's quite a thing [TS]

01:06:20   so if you're a fan of that kind of crazy [TS]

01:06:23   twisting too [TS]

01:06:24   doing stuff morning glories uh but I i [TS]

01:06:26   did have to go back for both of those [TS]

01:06:28   and really just start from the beginning [TS]

01:06:29   and read them from scratch it was a [TS]

01:06:30   delight to do that because they're both [TS]

01:06:32   good books all right I think we've [TS]

01:06:34   reached the end of the comic book club [TS]

01:06:35   how about that but that's okay because [TS]

01:06:37   we'll all be reincarnated in 90 years [TS]

01:06:39   and return to the comic book pantheon [TS]

01:06:41   this know maybe this I don't know people [TS]

01:06:42   be reading comics in 90 years i'll just [TS]

01:06:44   be beating them to each other using a [TS]

01:06:46   pair of their brain simply streaming [TS]

01:06:48   images to reach an executive branch of [TS]

01:06:51   the brand's yeah we animated images [TS]

01:06:53   Nellis yeah probably [TS]

01:06:55   well I'd like to thank my panelists for [TS]

01:06:57   joining me to read and discuss what [TS]

01:06:59   given the divine there's a lot of fun [TS]

01:07:00   Shannon soda thanks for being here [TS]

01:07:02   always a pleasure only in Sims thank you [TS]

01:07:04   thank you Tony single are made the [TS]

01:07:07   Batman be with you and with you and Lisa [TS]

01:07:10   Schmeisser is always a pleasure [TS]

01:07:11   if you come up with that was great to me [TS]

01:07:15   yes [TS]

01:07:15   oh I had a great time thank you and [TS]

01:07:19   became a bad man be with all of you [TS]

01:07:21   how fair right Tony right yeah I don't [TS]

01:07:25   know I'm gorgeous typical in the flash [TS]

01:07:27   at this point it doesn't matter it's [TS]

01:07:29   dark [TS]

01:07:30   she's their tragedy of these he's you're [TS]

01:07:32   always within the within like five feet [TS]

01:07:33   of Batman he's just always nearby just [TS]

01:07:35   in their rush you can't see them but [TS]

01:07:37   what the footprints art where you're [TS]

01:07:39   walking on a beach and then when you [TS]

01:07:40   look there's only one set of footprints [TS]

01:07:41   but there's also the Cape line behind [TS]

01:07:43   them gently racism if they go [TS]

01:07:45   that man is always with us thanks [TS]

01:07:48   everybody for listening we will see you [TS]

01:07:49   next time [TS]

01:07:59   [Music] [TS]