The Incomparable

292: I Have an Appointment with the Tholian Ambassador


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00:00:21   the incomparable number 292 March 2016 [TS]

00:00:33   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:35   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason still [TS]

00:00:37   we're back with the second edition of he [TS]

00:00:39   starts correct bad movie thing that [TS]

00:00:43   we're doing compliant why why for this [TS]

00:00:48   episode it is bad Star Trek Louise the [TS]

00:00:51   next generation as we watched Star Trek [TS]

00:00:54   insurrection from 1998 and star trek [TS]

00:00:56   nemesis from 2002 star trek nemesis you [TS]

00:01:01   may remember as the one that killed the [TS]

00:01:03   franchise for several year although it [TS]

00:01:09   was you know the six years later James [TS]

00:01:11   brought it back but this was the end of [TS]

00:01:13   the line for the next generation crew so [TS]

00:01:15   to talk about these movies in turn and [TS]

00:01:17   give them a good beating as if they were [TS]

00:01:19   piƱatas we just like the last time we [TS]

00:01:21   talked about started five and started [TS]

00:01:23   much picture i'm joined by a different [TS]

00:01:25   panel of people but one person remains [TS]

00:01:27   in common that's mr. Scott McNulty my [TS]

00:01:29   star trek go-to expert hi Scott [TS]

00:01:32   hello Jason have you ever experienced a [TS]

00:01:34   perfect moment [TS]

00:01:35   yeah i yeah we'll talk about that later [TS]

00:01:40   bonus track damn morons here hi Dan [TS]

00:01:44   Jason if if you had lived my life would [TS]

00:01:47   you not do the same as me and beyond [TS]

00:01:49   this podcast and watch too terrible Star [TS]

00:01:51   Trek movies ask yourself this [TS]

00:01:53   it's good point i'll cut myself with a [TS]

00:01:55   Romulan knife and and prove my loyalty [TS]

00:01:58   that's just how they say hello George [TS]

00:01:59   Eric and signs also here [TS]

00:02:02   hello i am here i'd have to say I didn't [TS]

00:02:05   take close enough note of these movies [TS]

00:02:08   to have an actual quote to say here [TS]

00:02:10   here's one [TS]

00:02:11   this is a oscar-winner f murray Abraham [TS]

00:02:13   circuit down and memory talking about [TS]

00:02:18   you're not just a winner [TS]

00:02:19   oscar-winner Brianna was here to talk [TS]

00:02:21   star trek as we love to do with her [TS]

00:02:22   hello [TS]

00:02:23   in the event of emergency i can be used [TS]

00:02:25   to simplification how did they forget [TS]

00:02:28   that line boom and Joe rosenstiel is [TS]

00:02:32   also here hi Joe [TS]

00:02:34   I seem to be missing several memory and [TS]

00:02:35   grams mmm [TS]

00:02:37   you know and we'll reason because [TS]

00:02:39   apparently they are physical objects and [TS]

00:02:41   not to anyway I i have questions about [TS]

00:02:44   data is brain what the wheel [TS]

00:02:47   oh I'll never get answers it sends out [TS]

00:02:50   positronic signals across vast distances [TS]

00:02:52   light-years to very specific [TS]

00:02:54   scholarships [TS]

00:02:55   yeah um bored well let's start with me [TS]

00:02:58   i'll start with the structure and action [TS]

00:03:00   so um so here's here's the thing on [TS]

00:03:03   Twitter somebody told me when we say [TS]

00:03:06   we're doing bad electric the next [TS]

00:03:07   generation somebody said all of them [TS]

00:03:09   which is really mean because star trek [TS]

00:03:11   first contact [TS]

00:03:12   that's a great movie i think it's the [TS]

00:03:13   best Star Trek movie other than Star [TS]

00:03:15   Trek to I think it's a legitimately [TS]

00:03:16   great movie [TS]

00:03:17   yeah um you know star generations is [TS]

00:03:21   kind of mediocre up there are a lot of [TS]

00:03:23   things i like about it including i love [TS]

00:03:25   that there are scenes with Captain [TS]

00:03:27   Picard in' and Captain Kirk talking to [TS]

00:03:29   each other and service but on horse on [TS]

00:03:31   hoarders you get the sense that they [TS]

00:03:33   were like lowering william shatner into [TS]

00:03:35   the movie rights like you can ride a [TS]

00:03:36   horse bill you could do that i do you [TS]

00:03:38   love horses better stewards like why do [TS]

00:03:40   I have to ride a horse although card [TS]

00:03:42   have a saddle in that Star Trek episode [TS]

00:03:44   right Scott so it's we know all about [TS]

00:03:46   ready or you know that they have that in [TS]

00:03:48   common but I you know I think I movies [TS]

00:03:50   fine then then there's star trek [TS]

00:03:52   insurrection and start their star trek [TS]

00:03:55   nemesis and what you said that the [TS]

00:03:58   differences like killed franchise dead [TS]

00:04:00   but insurrection is where we're going to [TS]

00:04:02   start with these are the assigned assign [TS]

00:04:04   films for this time since Star Trek [TS]

00:04:05   insurrection you know it's like an [TS]

00:04:08   episode of Star Trek The Next Generation [TS]

00:04:10   they the data seems to have gone rogue [TS]

00:04:14   and is shooting up a village it's very [TS]

00:04:16   much like that is who watches the [TS]

00:04:18   Watchers Scott is that is that the [TS]

00:04:19   episode where there [TS]

00:04:21   oh yeah there's like the Federation duck [TS]

00:04:23   blind in a pre-contact civilization and [TS]

00:04:25   they're kind of all all shielded and and [TS]

00:04:27   it's a little bit like that except and [TS]

00:04:30   indeed has kind of gone Rogan is [TS]

00:04:32   exposing the Federation people who are [TS]

00:04:34   there along with this race we've never [TS]

00:04:36   heard of or seen before the sona sona [TS]

00:04:39   that they are observing the Baku in the [TS]

00:04:41   briar patch which is an area of space [TS]

00:04:43   that is different some help [TS]

00:04:46   yeah so nice just how we say sonar here [TS]

00:04:49   involve [TS]

00:04:49   yeah just I feel like I have a history [TS]

00:04:53   of having positive things to say number [TS]

00:04:57   things that many geeks don't like I am [TS]

00:05:00   blank this week I got nothing if one [TS]

00:05:02   that will help me and bri doesn't have [TS]

00:05:04   anything that is a very bad hits over so [TS]

00:05:07   well I mean in the plot structure gives [TS]

00:05:09   insurrection essentially what it turns [TS]

00:05:10   out is that this planet just like the [TS]

00:05:12   fountain of youth and the Federation and [TS]

00:05:14   these people the SONA who we've never [TS]

00:05:16   heard of before that I it really sticks [TS]

00:05:18   with me it's like oh it's a brand new [TS]

00:05:20   alien race who's got starships and we've [TS]

00:05:22   never heard of him before but here they [TS]

00:05:23   are [TS]

00:05:24   it always bugged me but we make a deal [TS]

00:05:26   with them essentially because they want [TS]

00:05:28   a profit [TS]

00:05:29   everyone wants to profit from blowing up [TS]

00:05:31   the the special things special rings [TS]

00:05:33   around this planet that uh that create a [TS]

00:05:36   fountain of youth and picard and his [TS]

00:05:38   crew basically repel against this [TS]

00:05:40   Federation Admiral and the SONA who were [TS]

00:05:42   there and they fight this insurrection [TS]

00:05:45   to save the indigenous people on the [TS]

00:05:47   planet and then its complexity because [TS]

00:05:49   it turns out that the SONA are actually [TS]

00:05:51   part of the race of people on that [TS]

00:05:53   planet who were dissidents I'm Sports [TS]

00:05:55   West dissidents and they left and then [TS]

00:05:59   they became obsessed with [TS]

00:06:00   plastic-surgery not my favorite thing in [TS]

00:06:02   the movie anyway that's what that's what [TS]

00:06:05   Star Trek insurrection is there's you [TS]

00:06:06   know if murray Abraham and and and [TS]

00:06:08   patrick stewart fight in a scaffold in [TS]

00:06:11   space and that Ryker gets a shave [TS]

00:06:15   dr. precious dr. Crusher's boobs firm up [TS]

00:06:20   I i was wondering if you're going to [TS]

00:06:21   mention think I'm glad no one used on [TS]

00:06:24   learning the intro second I thought [TS]

00:06:25   about using that line and like even [TS]

00:06:28   Brianna Wu doesn't have the gall to say [TS]

00:06:30   that it's weird the redeeming quality of [TS]

00:06:33   it is that it's it's it's crusher and [TS]

00:06:35   Troy talking about the transforming up [TS]

00:06:37   and data is overhearing them and that [TS]

00:06:40   part is actually kind of funny because [TS]

00:06:41   its data and data is like I'm trying to [TS]

00:06:44   process this and I thought that part was [TS]

00:06:46   was funny be any it is so weird and then [TS]

00:06:49   covers are them singing like for the [TS]

00:06:51   starfish like Captain Picard saves the [TS]

00:06:55   day by sticking two more [TS]

00:06:58   oh so here's the thing about this this [TS]

00:07:01   this is that [TS]

00:07:02   I think I I kind was watching this with [TS]

00:07:05   my girlfriend and we were talking about [TS]

00:07:06   i think the thing that comes down to is [TS]

00:07:07   like you know if you're TNG fan as we [TS]

00:07:09   both were and you start watching this [TS]

00:07:12   it's it's like watching your parents try [TS]

00:07:14   to be cool with all the scenes where [TS]

00:07:16   they're young it's embarrassing i get [TS]

00:07:18   those awkward part of it is watching all [TS]

00:07:20   of them run around like teenagers and [TS]

00:07:22   you're like oh Jesus God have some [TS]

00:07:23   reason for this album bowl is difficult [TS]

00:07:27   i know it's going to pull an [TS]

00:07:29   embarrassing like I don't want to be [TS]

00:07:31   seen with these people [TS]

00:07:33   yeah you know and i'm not going to say [TS]

00:07:35   interaction is good but i actually [TS]

00:07:38   enjoyed watching it I didn't have any [TS]

00:07:40   and there's a bunch of silly stuff in it [TS]

00:07:41   but I got it I got to see a couple [TS]

00:07:43   actors I like donna murphy donna murphy [TS]

00:07:46   she's she was Juliet in center stage [TS]

00:07:48   which is my favorite dance movie of all [TS]

00:07:50   time so I enjoyed watching her and then [TS]

00:07:53   i even i was proud of myself because [TS]

00:07:55   underneath all of the other makeup I [TS]

00:07:57   recognize Greg Henry no yeah Jim [TS]

00:07:59   huntzberger on Gilmore Girls is so so [TS]

00:08:02   yeah but i had things that i was able to [TS]

00:08:04   latch onto it was pretty like I want to [TS]

00:08:06   go to that planet i wanna live there i [TS]

00:08:08   gotta say i don't think the second-worst [TS]

00:08:09   star trek movie next generation movie is [TS]

00:08:12   nearly as bad as the second-worst [TS]

00:08:13   original crew movie i think i think its [TS]

00:08:16   direction is really mediocre and I think [TS]

00:08:18   there are a lot of things that are [TS]

00:08:19   terrible about it which we should [TS]

00:08:21   probably list i'll throw out some of my [TS]

00:08:23   Nana please join in the reasons that [TS]

00:08:25   this movie is bad the data playing in [TS]

00:08:28   the hay with a little boy with the cgi [TS]

00:08:30   animal I I find that really creepy and [TS]

00:08:33   weird and I don't like it in any way i [TS]

00:08:36   can someone explain the time freezing [TS]

00:08:39   thing that makes no sense I kind of I [TS]

00:08:41   think that's kind of poet i mean the [TS]

00:08:42   idea is like you have a perfect moment [TS]

00:08:43   in time seems to stand still on it turns [TS]

00:08:45   out that they have like the ability to [TS]

00:08:47   freeze time through the power of I don't [TS]

00:08:49   know their advanced smarter than us the [TS]

00:08:51   power to ya laters out how to do i doing [TS]

00:08:55   that kind of poetic even though it makes [TS]

00:08:56   no sense that the other thing that [TS]

00:08:58   really bugs me is the is the SONA i'm in [TS]

00:09:00   Sona bug me the the idea that they are [TS]

00:09:03   unrecognizable but they're obsessed with [TS]

00:09:05   plastic surgery okay here's the thing [TS]

00:09:06   that they're plastic surgery I it seems [TS]

00:09:10   so broad as an idea this idea of trying [TS]

00:09:12   to remain young but they don't look [TS]

00:09:13   young [TS]

00:09:14   they look [TS]

00:09:15   weird it's like for real for weird and [TS]

00:09:18   so it happened we were meant to take [TS]

00:09:20   them seriously [TS]

00:09:22   on one level and yet it's also this [TS]

00:09:24   incredibly like broad satire on another [TS]

00:09:27   level and that but just completely [TS]

00:09:28   breaks down for me that can I defend [TS]

00:09:30   them with with three words on on Beth's [TS]

00:09:34   owners Jeff one of the words it's it's [TS]

00:09:37   pimping space couch is these are the [TS]

00:09:39   three words which is mr Abraham's got a [TS]

00:09:42   couch on his fringe which is awesome [TS]

00:09:44   just try I made note of that I've got a [TS]

00:09:49   rare point of agreement the thing I [TS]

00:09:52   don't get about the SONA is that they're [TS]

00:09:53   this this race this that has this [TS]

00:09:55   beautiful should not be stopped how many [TS]

00:09:57   yeah how many people were there on this [TS]

00:09:59   colony that were booted out to be able [TS]

00:10:02   to be seen by the Federation a hundred [TS]

00:10:04   years 10 years eve looks really sick [TS]

00:10:07   people it doesn't make it doesn't make [TS]

00:10:09   any sense that it would be better if the [TS]

00:10:12   people on the planet the Baku were like [TS]

00:10:15   the hippies who left their warlike race [TS]

00:10:18   and found this paradise and wouldn't let [TS]

00:10:21   anybody else you know and you know and [TS]

00:10:23   nobody else wanted to come there [TS]

00:10:24   something like that might have been a [TS]

00:10:26   better dynamic but the idea that there's [TS]

00:10:28   this powerful race that we've never seen [TS]

00:10:29   before in star track and in a hundred [TS]

00:10:31   years they formed and we've lost track [TS]

00:10:33   of where they came from [TS]

00:10:34   it's kind of ridiculous I mean it is [TS]

00:10:36   they're just trying to backtrack it to [TS]

00:10:37   get the story to work then and it [TS]

00:10:39   doesn't make any sense and then yet [TS]

00:10:41   again the satire I get the satire [TS]

00:10:43   reminds me a little bit of Erika king dr [TS]

00:10:46   who the in the the end the world where [TS]

00:10:48   there's the the cassandra is a that her [TS]

00:10:51   name right yep that's and she said she's [TS]

00:10:53   a character who is the she is the [TS]

00:10:55   ultimate expression of plastic surgery [TS]

00:10:57   she's skin on a trampoline frame [TS]

00:10:59   essentially it is varying human it is [TS]

00:11:02   very funny and very broad but and I was [TS]

00:11:06   thinking of that when i watch the book [TS]

00:11:08   the the SONA because it's like that it's [TS]

00:11:10   like except they're they're supposed to [TS]

00:11:12   be taken seriously while being [TS]

00:11:14   ridiculous and it's just it's just it's [TS]

00:11:16   too bad because I think a lot of the [TS]

00:11:17   movie is perfectly fine as in like a [TS]

00:11:19   next generation episode it's define it [TS]

00:11:23   in the degree of difficulty I think it's [TS]

00:11:25   a degree of difficulty thing like you [TS]

00:11:28   know making this [TS]

00:11:29   I feel like you said well it's a long [TS]

00:11:30   episode so in some ways it doesn't [TS]

00:11:33   require quite as much ingenuity or [TS]

00:11:37   stretching or any sort of yeah of itself [TS]

00:11:40   it's it's fine but it's not a [TS]

00:11:42   particularly difficult concept or really [TS]

00:11:45   you know yeah I don't think it's [TS]

00:11:47   particularly complexes and that's fine [TS]

00:11:48   and the action bits are super lazy they [TS]

00:11:50   do prefigure drones a little bit which I [TS]

00:11:52   thought was kind of cool thing seeing it [TS]

00:11:54   now some of the scenes are terrible like [TS]

00:11:55   the spinning in the shuttles just made [TS]

00:11:57   me nauseous [TS]

00:11:58   no just run around each other I I think [TS]

00:12:01   like a lot of the you know a lot of the [TS]

00:12:03   cg of the nineties and say this is [TS]

00:12:05   someone who does this for a living [TS]

00:12:07   a lot of cg the nineties doesn't hold up [TS]

00:12:10   because we didn't have in things like [TS]

00:12:11   new Carlotta the advance on color [TS]

00:12:14   matching things if i want to say like [TS]

00:12:16   I'm trying to think of anything possible [TS]

00:12:18   if you could say about this movie I [TS]

00:12:20   think this particular version of the [TS]

00:12:22   enterprise is probably the best one from [TS]

00:12:25   a design perspective yeah i love you [TS]

00:12:27   work for me [TS]

00:12:28   yeah yeah it'sit's that came up and this [TS]

00:12:30   is really interesting technically I they [TS]

00:12:32   had certain technologies to really [TS]

00:12:35   create lots of detail on the whole of [TS]

00:12:38   this ship and it really shots in the [TS]

00:12:39   design like it's it's like when you're [TS]

00:12:42   watching episode 7 of Star Wars and [TS]

00:12:44   they're flying through the the surface [TS]

00:12:46   of like a Star Destroyer you can see [TS]

00:12:47   that much detail of it looks better that [TS]

00:12:50   technology this was when they first [TS]

00:12:52   started doing that for like Star Trek [TS]

00:12:54   and I think that successful put so bad [TS]

00:12:58   to have all the fight scenes and [TS]

00:13:00   everything the entire movie just not [TS]

00:13:01   make any sense so bad that it ruins it [TS]

00:13:04   either i do like I mean mentioned on [TS]

00:13:06   Murphy I like Don Murphy I like her [TS]

00:13:08   exchanges with the card I think that [TS]

00:13:11   kind of their kind of interesting this [TS]

00:13:13   truly like I mean it as an old like like [TS]

00:13:17   like Frank actually Brianna old-school [TS]

00:13:21   TOS Star Trek fan it reminded me that a [TS]

00:13:24   little bit is like you know the captain [TS]

00:13:26   goes down on the planet and there's a [TS]

00:13:27   woman down there who you know but in [TS]

00:13:29   this case donna murphy she's kind of [TS]

00:13:30   super wise because it turns out she's [TS]

00:13:31   the older woman she's like several [TS]

00:13:33   hundred years old and I thought that was [TS]

00:13:36   an interesting give-and-take and I also [TS]

00:13:38   like the fact that they cast a 40 year [TS]

00:13:40   old woman in that part and not [TS]

00:13:42   not a 20 year old woman because you [TS]

00:13:43   could argue that if they're eternally [TS]

00:13:45   young they should all look 20 years old [TS]

00:13:47   but they didn't do that and I thought [TS]

00:13:49   she was great in it [TS]

00:13:51   I you know the shoes me ASAP let's be [TS]

00:13:54   honest like she's ridiculously gorgeous [TS]

00:13:56   oh yeah she's fantastic it's it i really [TS]

00:13:59   love i really love that that's it's all [TS]

00:14:01   rolled into gether I i love less the the [TS]

00:14:04   kind of really boring action scenes [TS]

00:14:06   where they're picking off drones and [TS]

00:14:08   running through caves and fighting in a [TS]

00:14:10   in a big frame with Emory Abraham very [TS]

00:14:14   good insurrection because they are [TS]

00:14:16   eating hundreds of people across an open [TS]

00:14:18   field when the enemy has a spaceship [TS]

00:14:22   with scanner still like strengthen them [TS]

00:14:25   yeah well they're used to having a lot [TS]

00:14:27   of technology so they're feeling a [TS]

00:14:28   little disadvantage i also love that [TS]

00:14:29   when they show up to stop the card from [TS]

00:14:31   going rogue [TS]

00:14:32   he's like 40 and Riker you guys stay [TS]

00:14:34   behind fortunately you're already [TS]

00:14:36   wearing your uniform [TS]

00:14:37   it's like you like this i noticed that [TS]

00:14:40   we really need each other that was kind [TS]

00:14:42   of mistake they should have been it [TS]

00:14:43   would have been funny but they should [TS]

00:14:45   have been ready with their City clothes [TS]

00:14:46   and being like up i guess we gotta [TS]

00:14:48   change back into our uniforms the writer [TS]

00:14:50   has a sweet leisure suit somewhere come [TS]

00:14:52   on man [TS]

00:14:53   although again I gotta say Riker the one [TS]

00:14:56   of the things that makes me cringe in [TS]

00:14:57   this movie is Riker and Troy in the [TS]

00:15:00   bathtub in the shaving yes I just really [TS]

00:15:03   horny because they're in the briar patch [TS]

00:15:05   but it's like these movies are heavy on [TS]

00:15:08   the the sex scenes you never really want [TS]

00:15:11   well six iterations appeal was all about [TS]

00:15:14   Riker and Troy's relationship right [TS]

00:15:15   let's take a break for me to tell you [TS]

00:15:18   about one of our sponsors it is IT pro [TS]

00:15:21   TV if you've got a career plan you want [TS]

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00:16:10   topics [TS]

00:16:11   these are great course topics so if you [TS]

00:16:13   want to upgrade your Apple related [TS]

00:16:15   skills there's mac integration basics [TS]

00:16:17   there's an apple certified support [TS]

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00:16:20   technical coordinator amazon web [TS]

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00:16:24   certification Google Apps for work [TS]

00:16:26   administrator virtualization [TS]

00:16:28   cryptography a whole lot more all the [TS]

00:16:30   courses are transcribed so you can watch [TS]

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00:16:56   IT pro TV include harvard-mit UCSD [TS]

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00:17:17   to check out the courses the live stream [TS]

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00:17:20   you'll also get thirty percent off the [TS]

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00:17:28   year and mark your calendar the ccnp [TS]

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00:17:33   the very first time beginning of march [TS]

00:17:34   21st IT pro TV / Nell use code smell [TS]

00:17:39   try it free for seven days and safe [TS]

00:17:40   thirty percent off for the lifetime of [TS]

00:17:42   your account thank you to IT pro TV for [TS]

00:17:45   sponsoring the incomparable I like being [TS]

00:17:48   that the the indication that this [TS]

00:17:50   society this is no planetary society is [TS]

00:17:53   so advanced in like really you know [TS]

00:17:55   they're all coordinated stuff is that [TS]

00:17:57   they play hacky sack like a bunch of [TS]

00:17:58   college freshman yeah but really good at [TS]

00:18:00   their really congratulate act like man [TS]

00:18:02   also dates and the fact that it's an [TS]

00:18:04   entire planet surrounded by the fountain [TS]

00:18:06   of youth rings but there's only like six [TS]

00:18:08   hundred people on the whole planet right [TS]

00:18:09   me you could just just come down just [TS]

00:18:12   just hang out make it make a resort spa [TS]

00:18:15   right which apparently wasn't related [TS]

00:18:17   scene where there's enough room wasn't [TS]

00:18:19   then they just invite the SONA to live [TS]

00:18:21   yeah with them well the card even says [TS]

00:18:24   that add to the Admiral and he says Oh [TS]

00:18:26   altered condition is so bad at this [TS]

00:18:27   point that it would take them ten years [TS]

00:18:29   before they even saw any benefit from [TS]

00:18:31   that and they would start dying by then [TS]

00:18:32   they don't want to do that so that much [TS]

00:18:33   either just blow up the planet really [TS]

00:18:35   seems like a script note right where [TS]

00:18:36   somebody we found a plot hole when they [TS]

00:18:38   just insert a line of dialogue say oh no [TS]

00:18:40   we can't do that yet these states are so [TS]

00:18:43   incredibly low need to have different [TS]

00:18:45   line [TS]

00:18:45   how low are they didn't have that moment [TS]

00:18:47   where I thought you know although i [TS]

00:18:49   complained a lot about on Star Trek and [TS]

00:18:51   doctor who actually the idea that every [TS]

00:18:54   story has to be about the fate of here [TS]

00:18:56   the fate of the world favorite human [TS]

00:18:58   race the fate of the universe [TS]

00:18:59   I don't have that moment an insurrection [TS]

00:19:01   where I'm like fate of 500 people [TS]

00:19:04   well it is a movie I mean like you said [TS]

00:19:07   it it should be bigger than that because [TS]

00:19:09   it feels it just feels like a regular [TS]

00:19:11   episode that happens to be a little bit [TS]

00:19:13   longer [TS]

00:19:14   I mean that does give us that nice see [TS]

00:19:16   where Picard is like how many people [TS]

00:19:17   does it take for it to matter it has a [TS]

00:19:19   good scene that's true that's a good [TS]

00:19:21   scene so I like they are there are some [TS]

00:19:23   there are some good things in here I [TS]

00:19:24   also liked Georgie seeing a sunrise with [TS]

00:19:26   his real ID yes that was Jordan is [TS]

00:19:28   always my painting that was a really [TS]

00:19:29   good yeah thats related everything [TS]

00:19:31   Beverly with a gun taking out those [TS]

00:19:33   little robots and enjoying the heck out [TS]

00:19:35   of me that was super fun for me as a as [TS]

00:19:37   a fan of hers or speaking majority again [TS]

00:19:40   the moment where he rejects the warp [TS]

00:19:42   core before he's even ordered to that [TS]

00:19:44   was a good woman already got it at yep [TS]

00:19:46   what am I for one of my biggest pet [TS]

00:19:47   peeves about what any kind of any kind [TS]

00:19:50   of military or star trek or science [TS]

00:19:53   fiction show is that quite often it [TS]

00:19:55   takes forever from the time that the [TS]

00:19:57   captain gives the order for something to [TS]

00:19:59   actually happen it has to be related [TS]

00:20:01   through at least one other person before [TS]

00:20:02   all but I wished and then suddenly like [TS]

00:20:04   you know that there's a huge scene with [TS]

00:20:06   that nemesis hunt for red october i love [TS]

00:20:09   that Georgie just jumped the gun and [TS]

00:20:10   he's like no needed to be done I didn't [TS]

00:20:12   you know wash my hands and there's a [TS]

00:20:13   moment of realization like yep all right [TS]

00:20:15   onto [TS]

00:20:16   do you think about this movie i think [TS]

00:20:17   especially in comparison to the movie [TS]

00:20:18   will talk to you in a moment is the this [TS]

00:20:22   is really well served by like all the [TS]

00:20:24   characters are really well served by [TS]

00:20:26   this movie I feel like even if it's in [TS]

00:20:27   sometimes ridiculous ways [TS]

00:20:29   everybody gets a couple scenes and it [TS]

00:20:32   feels like there's some character [TS]

00:20:33   development like these feel like the [TS]

00:20:34   characters that we know from the show [TS]

00:20:36   i'll be it you know kind of under a [TS]

00:20:39   weird influence of this whole planet [TS]

00:20:41   region whatever but like you get to see [TS]

00:20:42   all the characters you get to see them [TS]

00:20:44   interact you know you get and and that I [TS]

00:20:46   think use kind of lacking in the other [TS]

00:20:49   movie [TS]

00:20:50   yeah but i will say that i do feel kind [TS]

00:20:52   of bad for gates mcfadden because she [TS]

00:20:54   had been played for a long time is this [TS]

00:20:56   love interest with the car yeah and we [TS]

00:20:59   let me about this Joe yeah when one of [TS]

00:21:01   my episodes that I really love is when [TS]

00:21:03   they get bonded with the telepathic link [TS]

00:21:05   thing and abducted on that planet and [TS]

00:21:07   our wandering around and so they get to [TS]

00:21:10   know each other and all that stuff in a [TS]

00:21:11   relationship that's building up and then [TS]

00:21:13   in this movie it's just like yeah [TS]

00:21:14   whatever we're just hanging out and I'm [TS]

00:21:16   gonna go shoot some drones over here and [TS]

00:21:17   stand for people with the tricorder yep [TS]

00:21:19   that's it [TS]

00:21:20   well I me and he's like yeah but Donna [TS]

00:21:22   Murphy is right here so yeah she's [TS]

00:21:24   helping him with like his collar and the [TS]

00:21:25   first scene and you feel like oh maybe [TS]

00:21:26   they don't like decided to make a go of [TS]

00:21:28   it I always shipped them so hmm well [TS]

00:21:31   speaking of that first thing I really [TS]

00:21:33   like how war shows up and parts like [TS]

00:21:35   what are you doing here warfare that how [TS]

00:21:37   are you doing it over [TS]

00:21:38   they don't care they shipped to another [TS]

00:21:40   thing you don't even hear what he says [TS]

00:21:41   it doesn't matter well here I what [TS]

00:21:43   worried about war shows up whenever [TS]

00:21:44   there's a movie that's going to be shot [TS]

00:21:46   because they gotta give him back because [TS]

00:21:47   they're going to explain in the deep [TS]

00:21:48   deep space nine chronology which is a [TS]

00:21:50   little bit confusing but it had I like [TS]

00:21:52   I'm glad they do it and not like what [TS]

00:21:54   why is mr. Worf not in the Star Trek [TS]

00:21:55   movies well because he was on TV no no [TS]

00:21:57   we're going to bring it back and put it [TS]

00:21:58   in the movies TV I think TV plays a big [TS]

00:22:01   part in when we look at any of the next [TS]

00:22:03   generation movies because the original [TS]

00:22:05   Star Trek was off the air for 10 years [TS]

00:22:07   and then they came back and they made a [TS]

00:22:08   bunch of movies i think one of the [TS]

00:22:09   challenges with all these [TS]

00:22:10   next-generation movies is it was a cast [TS]

00:22:13   of a TV show and they they finished the [TS]

00:22:15   TV show and said well every couple of [TS]

00:22:17   years we'll come back and we'll make a [TS]

00:22:18   movie with you guys and and they did [TS]

00:22:21   that 44 movies and it makes I feel like [TS]

00:22:25   it's kind of a degree of difficulty [TS]

00:22:27   increase on that front because you're [TS]

00:22:29   always going to just say this is just [TS]

00:22:31   like a TV episode but the fact is you [TS]

00:22:34   know it [TS]

00:22:35   this is this movie of all the Star Trek [TS]

00:22:37   movies that were made feels the most [TS]

00:22:39   like a TV episode I mean and it's like [TS]

00:22:41   you know in a 24 episode season you can [TS]

00:22:45   like there's a rhythm to star trek right [TS]

00:22:47   like a season comes out we all accept [TS]

00:22:49   that making only about a third of them [TS]

00:22:51   are going to be good you know that you [TS]

00:22:53   just you know that but i think it's it's [TS]

00:22:56   really interesting to look at the the [TS]

00:22:58   historical time that was going on here [TS]

00:23:00   with the the trek franchise because [TS]

00:23:02   there were a lot of rumors back then and [TS]

00:23:05   there was a lot of people advocating for [TS]

00:23:07   there being a voyeur movie and they were [TS]

00:23:09   talking about Voyager maybe trying to [TS]

00:23:10   take over the home after the mtng movies [TS]

00:23:13   had really run their course and because [TS]

00:23:15   these two movies are so bad i feel like [TS]

00:23:19   it really it's like you said it really [TS]

00:23:21   hurt the franchise for a really long [TS]

00:23:22   time and you just you can't forgive this [TS]

00:23:26   level of just cheese in a star trek [TS]

00:23:29   movie like I understand not every star [TS]

00:23:31   trek movie needs to be a hyper serious [TS]

00:23:34   first content with tina those high [TS]

00:23:38   stakes [TS]

00:23:39   I understand that like some of them are [TS]

00:23:40   going to be the voyage home and be a [TS]

00:23:42   little more comical this one just failed [TS]

00:23:46   like there's there's very little they [TS]

00:23:47   succeeded at and that that makes me very [TS]

00:23:49   sad [TS]

00:23:50   are you saying that you think the manual [TS]

00:23:52   steering control being a joystick yeah [TS]

00:23:55   okay just wanna be why would you not [TS]

00:23:58   just go up to the helm and control the [TS]

00:24:00   helmet your writer and you think that [TS]

00:24:02   but instead they have this thing that [TS]

00:24:03   comes out of the floor of a joystick why [TS]

00:24:05   do you have that all the time but they [TS]

00:24:07   have a lot yeah there's a lot of that [TS]

00:24:09   we're in this movie especially and I [TS]

00:24:10   think again you're thinking of it as a [TS]

00:24:12   TV show you like why did you do that and [TS]

00:24:14   the answers we have money to do that so [TS]

00:24:16   we did that and it's not a good it's not [TS]

00:24:18   a good enough reason [TS]

00:24:19   also the tent and we'll get to this with [TS]

00:24:20   nemesis as well but i want to point out [TS]

00:24:23   the tenuous of Star Trek as as a film [TS]

00:24:26   franchise the fact that paramount in the [TS]

00:24:30   eighties and nineties and early two [TS]

00:24:32   thousands uh was this close like [TS]

00:24:35   structure to was developed as a TV movie [TS]

00:24:37   right and they finally decided to make a [TS]

00:24:39   feature film every for all that we [TS]

00:24:42   talked about this weird [TS]

00:24:43   it's about how there was the even movies [TS]

00:24:45   are good and the odd movies are are are [TS]

00:24:47   not as good [TS]

00:24:48   um the first time the even and odd [TS]

00:24:52   movies were bad they ended it that was [TS]

00:24:55   it being so they were always like one [TS]

00:24:57   away from being shut down the the [TS]

00:24:59   budgets weren't that great i mean you [TS]

00:25:00   look at these movies they look ok the [TS]

00:25:02   budgets weren't weren't were were ok but [TS]

00:25:06   they weren't also like super blockbuster [TS]

00:25:08   budgets they never really were after the [TS]

00:25:10   motion picture it's just interesting to [TS]

00:25:12   think of we think of Star Trek as this [TS]

00:25:14   eternal franchise in so many different [TS]

00:25:16   ways and yet during this period they [TS]

00:25:20   were right on the edge of getting thrown [TS]

00:25:21   out the door every single time and in [TS]

00:25:24   fact nemesis has it has a different [TS]

00:25:26   screen writer and a different director [TS]

00:25:27   because they basically said we need to [TS]

00:25:29   do something to shake this up and then [TS]

00:25:31   when that stiffed they just said forget [TS]

00:25:33   it we're gonna go back to the drawing [TS]

00:25:34   it's just so weird to think that like [TS]

00:25:36   not being able to make money on Star [TS]

00:25:37   Trek given the high level of devoted [TS]

00:25:39   fanbase that it has right and looking at [TS]

00:25:41   the huge number of sci-fi franchises [TS]

00:25:43   that we've had since then it's just it's [TS]

00:25:45   kind of mind-boggling but you're totally [TS]

00:25:46   right like that was the climate of the [TS]

00:25:48   times i remember going to see this in [TS]

00:25:49   the movie theater and being really [TS]

00:25:51   excited about another star trek movie [TS]

00:25:52   especially after first contact and it [TS]

00:25:55   was just a that came out this going on [TS]

00:25:57   was that [TS]

00:25:58   yeah yeah I actually liked it better [TS]

00:26:01   this time watching it and I good when I [TS]

00:26:02   saw in the theater because when i was in [TS]

00:26:04   the theater I had high hopes for it when [TS]

00:26:06   i watch out today I mean this is an [TS]

00:26:08   episode called bad Star Trek movies like [TS]

00:26:10   I do I wasn't in for much so it didn't [TS]

00:26:12   have any expectations to live up to its [TS]

00:26:14   an episode with a big budget that's [TS]

00:26:16   basically I mean that's my biggest [TS]

00:26:18   criticism of it actually is i can [TS]

00:26:19   complain about the SONA and I and the [TS]

00:26:21   little cgi woodchuck or whatever his put [TS]

00:26:23   but really it's just you know that's why [TS]

00:26:27   i don't think it's particularly bad up [TS]

00:26:29   or bad episode see what i just said a [TS]

00:26:31   bad movie it's just it's not a movie [TS]

00:26:33   it's just kind of there it's an episode [TS]

00:26:36   of Star Trek The Next Generation with a [TS]

00:26:37   bigger budget and it's not special and [TS]

00:26:40   next-generation you know and not every [TS]

00:26:41   episode Embry was saying this about you [TS]

00:26:43   know not every episode needs to be [TS]

00:26:45   special went into TV series but one of [TS]

00:26:47   the movie it kind of needs to be special [TS]

00:26:49   and insurrection is not it's just not [TS]

00:26:52   know it and there [TS]

00:26:54   an additional element to this win the [TS]

00:26:56   started coming out when Star Wars was [TS]

00:26:59   also coming out like this is there's a [TS]

00:27:01   six-month separation between this and [TS]

00:27:02   the Phantom Menace ah and with nemesis [TS]

00:27:05   was the same year is a attack of the [TS]

00:27:07   clones and even though [TS]

00:27:09   attack of the clones horrible movie how [TS]

00:27:10   he just in terms of like the the pop [TS]

00:27:14   culture awareness of everyone you know [TS]

00:27:16   tuning into something with with science [TS]

00:27:18   fiction film it's just like why would [TS]

00:27:19   you pay attention to either these two [TS]

00:27:21   star trek movies over that [TS]

00:27:23   yeah I mean there's so many reasons I I [TS]

00:27:24   feel like now maybe the climate is [TS]

00:27:26   actually a little bit better we did that [TS]

00:27:27   episode of the uncomfortable while ago [TS]

00:27:29   about the the new star trek see TV [TS]

00:27:32   series coming from CBS and you know if [TS]

00:27:35   you talk about if you listen to what [TS]

00:27:36   paramount is saying about the star trek [TS]

00:27:39   film franchise it's entirely possible i [TS]

00:27:41   mean that they're starting it could go [TS]

00:27:42   bad but they're they're starting to [TS]

00:27:44   think about like what if Star Trek was [TS]

00:27:45   Abe wider universe more like Star Wars [TS]

00:27:48   or the Marvel movies and they had [TS]

00:27:50   different movies that were not tied to [TS]

00:27:53   just uh you know just the the TV shows [TS]

00:27:57   or the the classic characters and the [TS]

00:27:59   funny thing is any Star Trek fans going [TS]

00:28:01   to say well of course Star Trek's always [TS]

00:28:03   been bigger than anyone show but it [TS]

00:28:05   seems to have taken the success of the [TS]

00:28:07   Marvel movies and then you know looking [TS]

00:28:09   at what they're doing with Star Wars for [TS]

00:28:11   the stewards of the franchise to say oh [TS]

00:28:13   you know what we could probably do that [TS]

00:28:15   the star track and so now they're [TS]

00:28:17   figuring it out but you know Star Trek [TS]

00:28:18   could have been the Marvel movies in the [TS]

00:28:20   nineties or the 2,000 if they had had [TS]

00:28:23   some vision but instead they just felt [TS]

00:28:25   like it was a continuation of a TV show [TS]

00:28:26   and how broad is a movie based on a TV [TS]

00:28:29   show [TS]

00:28:30   I mean I don't know maybe the entourage [TS]

00:28:31   movie did really well it didn't but you [TS]

00:28:34   know it's it's a limited audience so I [TS]

00:28:36   don't know I feel like the kind of [TS]

00:28:37   painting themselves in a corner and [TS]

00:28:39   maybe they finally figured out now but [TS]

00:28:40   it is it just seemed like an awful waste [TS]

00:28:42   to to go through all this and end up [TS]

00:28:44   with no you didn't even mention i [TS]

00:28:45   believe the budgets for these star trek [TS]

00:28:47   movies a fraction of the Star Wars [TS]

00:28:49   movies [TS]

00:28:50   oh yeah so this was a 58 million for [TS]

00:28:52   insurrection and [TS]

00:28:53   a phantom menace i think was a hundred [TS]

00:28:55   and well or something like that so you [TS]

00:28:58   know so you know you compare them on [TS]

00:29:00   screen and for all we can say about the [TS]

00:29:02   Phantom Menace it a little it sounds [TS]

00:29:05   great it looks great it's got all these [TS]

00:29:07   I can explain exactly what things about [TS]

00:29:08   the man tonight not happy [TS]

00:29:10   motion denied even I am done defending [TS]

00:29:15   the prequels after seeing episode 7 [TS]

00:29:17   alike yet there can be good Star Wars [TS]

00:29:19   movies around alkaline trio story [TS]

00:29:22   yeah technically episode one spectacular [TS]

00:29:24   technically spectacular and then you [TS]

00:29:26   look at insurrection you're like CGI [TS]

00:29:28   here's is terrible it's really hot so ya [TS]

00:29:31   can compare droid armies to the little [TS]

00:29:34   flying drone things actually that was a [TS]

00:29:36   hard one of the things that really got [TS]

00:29:38   my goat was it the little flying drone [TS]

00:29:39   things and that obnoxious scene where we [TS]

00:29:41   get the pan across everybody has their [TS]

00:29:43   reading reading their weapons [TS]

00:29:44   the Browns are just sitting there [TS]

00:29:45   waiting the camera for any surprise our [TS]

00:29:48   heroes and then they start so you know [TS]

00:29:50   there's a pan happening we've got to [TS]

00:29:51   stop the data nice to his jump and shoot [TS]

00:29:53   thing it's gonna be really really [TS]

00:29:55   dramatically shooter [TS]

00:29:57   let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

00:29:58   one of our sponsors it's the walking [TS]

00:30:01   dead collectors models officially [TS]

00:30:04   authorized by AMC and now available [TS]

00:30:06   directly from eaglemoss collections it's [TS]

00:30:09   the ultimate the walking dead figurine [TS]

00:30:11   collection created for ultimate fans of [TS]

00:30:14   the show it's an extensive collection [TS]

00:30:15   featuring the most popular characters [TS]

00:30:17   from across all the seasons the walking [TS]

00:30:19   dead as seen on AMC every characters [TS]

00:30:21   depicted in a classic pose stands on a [TS]

00:30:23   base and has been faithfully reproduced [TS]

00:30:25   in 12 21 scale that's about three and [TS]

00:30:28   three-quarters inches tall [TS]

00:30:29   I have a bunch of them in front of me [TS]

00:30:30   right now I've got Tyrese here they sent [TS]

00:30:32   these to me I've got the governor who [TS]

00:30:34   looks super menacing as usual shown you [TS]

00:30:36   know she's got that sword [TS]

00:30:38   it's pretty awesome Glenn is here just [TS]

00:30:40   gonna have a baseball cap on though I [TS]

00:30:42   think he's not wearing a baseball cap [TS]

00:30:44   what's wrong claim come on find that hat [TS]

00:30:46   daryl dixon I've got here Darrell Scott [TS]

00:30:49   is his gun i got Merle with his crazy [TS]

00:30:51   thing on his arm and of course Rick [TS]

00:30:54   Grimes and you can start your collection [TS]

00:30:55   today with Rick Grimes for only four [TS]

00:30:58   dollars and ninety-five cents with free [TS]

00:31:00   shipping all these models are casting [TS]

00:31:02   especially formulated metallic resin and [TS]

00:31:04   they're painted by hand [TS]

00:31:05   following the original references from [TS]

00:31:07   the MC archives everyone comes with a [TS]

00:31:09   detailed booklet spotlighting that [TS]

00:31:11   character and new models are released [TS]

00:31:13   monthly and delivered directly to your [TS]

00:31:14   door so I guess I've got seven months [TS]

00:31:16   worth right on my desk right now it's [TS]

00:31:18   pretty awesome i can make a little [TS]

00:31:20   dioramas of them i can keep them in the [TS]

00:31:21   box if I want to be cruel or i can get a [TS]

00:31:23   mountain play walking dead with him [TS]

00:31:25   you can cancel your subscription anytime [TS]

00:31:26   so there's no risk to you for details on [TS]

00:31:28   this whole collection and to order yours [TS]

00:31:30   go to TWD collection.com / smell that's [TS]

00:31:35   Rick Grimes for 495 with free shipping [TS]

00:31:37   it looks great [TS]

00:31:38   check it out TWD collection calm / smell [TS]

00:31:41   and thanks to eaglemoss for sponsoring [TS]

00:31:44   the incomparable what is with the [TS]

00:31:46   Western thing Dave's got like a saddle [TS]

00:31:48   up line and you know I like that length [TS]

00:31:50   so when we talk about what did with data [TS]

00:31:51   what all the characters doing this data [TS]

00:31:53   is the plot mechanic for a while because [TS]

00:31:55   he's kind of malfunctioning but it turns [TS]

00:31:57   out that his his moral and ethical [TS]

00:31:59   subroutines take over whenever he's [TS]

00:32:01   damaged ok but but at the end or in that [TS]

00:32:05   scene in the captain's yacht which was [TS]

00:32:06   by the way always on the blueprints of [TS]

00:32:08   the enterprise was that there was a [TS]

00:32:09   captain's yacht and we never saw it and [TS]

00:32:11   as a fan of of the next generation that [TS]

00:32:14   was always a little theoretically on the [TS]

00:32:15   bottom of the saucer there's this [TS]

00:32:16   captain's yacht nobody ever talked about [TS]

00:32:18   it in this movie the card is packing in [TS]

00:32:21   the stuff and all that was supposed to [TS]

00:32:23   feel like diplomacy I don't know Dan I [TS]

00:32:25   don't know why they have the captain but [TS]

00:32:27   they do but there's a great that that's [TS]

00:32:29   a great moment when they point out well [TS]

00:32:32   data says everybody else here is feeling [TS]

00:32:35   the effects so they may be having [TS]

00:32:37   youthful rebellious tendencies but not [TS]

00:32:40   me and progresses well what about you [TS]

00:32:42   David he's like lock and load [TS]

00:32:43   saddle up let's do it and that's a great [TS]

00:32:45   that is actually a legitimately great [TS]

00:32:47   moment in the movie because it is he is [TS]

00:32:49   he is completely logical and says we [TS]

00:32:52   need to we need to do this insurrection [TS]

00:32:54   and I like that part that's that's a [TS]

00:32:56   nice moment together it makes me cringe [TS]

00:32:59   I don't love the dialogue I don't like a [TS]

00:33:02   saddle saddle up with brent Spiner I [TS]

00:33:04   don't like that but i like i like the [TS]

00:33:06   moments leading up to it i do I let the [TS]

00:33:07   idea that data is you know David's got [TS]

00:33:10   something to say here that he's totally [TS]

00:33:12   you know he's totally not affected by [TS]

00:33:14   this he doesn't have a Gorch or anything [TS]

00:33:16   like that [TS]

00:33:17   did anything he well he's already been [TS]

00:33:20   interest mood as an interest that and [TS]

00:33:23   yeah the jokes the jokes I would watch [TS]

00:33:27   the webseries settle up with brent [TS]

00:33:29   Spiner anyway i don't know i mean it is [TS]

00:33:34   it fair to say that this is not you know [TS]

00:33:36   it's not it's not a grotesquely bad [TS]

00:33:39   movie it's just kind of there [TS]

00:33:40   you know i will say this i enjoyed the [TS]

00:33:42   music all the way through insurrection [TS]

00:33:44   and that is not something i can say [TS]

00:33:46   about the next film Argo one of the sad [TS]

00:33:48   things about all of these bad Star Trek [TS]

00:33:50   movies all four of them that we watched [TS]

00:33:52   are scored by Jerry Goldsmith who is a [TS]

00:33:54   hero is 82 up your professional and i [TS]

00:33:56   will say the part I didn't notice the [TS]

00:33:57   one part I really music stood out to me [TS]

00:33:58   is when I Worf beats up some guy and [TS]

00:34:02   they give you a call back to the Klingon [TS]

00:34:04   yeah throne hits the drone with a phaser [TS]

00:34:07   rifle and ditto back to and from the [TS]

00:34:10   original motion picture which is a great [TS]

00:34:12   area i mean i will be the score for the [TS]

00:34:15   motion picture is fantasy it is the [TS]

00:34:17   jerry goldsmith works on work on that is [TS]

00:34:19   among his best and it's great having [TS]

00:34:21   school administrators movies i don't [TS]

00:34:24   know i think that was a what happened to [TS]

00:34:27   your citizens will well I guess we'll [TS]

00:34:29   get there it's I sorry Jerry Goldsmith [TS]

00:34:31   you you weren't the problem but uh [TS]

00:34:34   thatthat's that is it Jerry Goldsmith [TS]

00:34:37   through with this movie [TS]

00:34:39   ok let's talk about Star Trek nemesis [TS]

00:34:41   let's do it [TS]

00:34:42   Star Trek Star Trek 10 we according to [TS]

00:34:45   some star trek nemesis i believe the [TS]

00:34:48   title says star teac menaces because [TS]

00:34:50   they have a Russian are ok that works on [TS]

00:34:52   it was a toys r us ad the ads for to [TS]

00:34:56   that to the namespace directed by stuart [TS]

00:34:59   bear you may know him from u.s. marshals [TS]

00:35:03   written by john logan the the [TS]

00:35:06   screenwriter of gladiator which I would [TS]

00:35:08   say is one of the worst best picture [TS]

00:35:10   winners of all time I just watched it [TS]

00:35:13   recently for the first time ever here [TS]

00:35:15   here's my one word review gladiator you [TS]

00:35:17   ready [TS]

00:35:17   Battier later oh I see what you did [TS]

00:35:21   yesterday and the other one I mean this [TS]

00:35:24   is a guy who also wrote Specter Skyfall [TS]

00:35:26   Hugo I mean in some there's some decent [TS]

00:35:30   movies there maybe not great movies but [TS]

00:35:32   there he's a he's not a terrible writer [TS]

00:35:34   he has written some decent movie its [TS]

00:35:36   interests will be tornado they brought [TS]

00:35:39   in paper interview that's about [TS]

00:35:40   explanation they um they brought in new [TS]

00:35:42   director jonathan frakes director the [TS]

00:35:44   last two they brought in John Logan [TS]

00:35:46   although the score story credit is with [TS]

00:35:48   Rick Berman who was the guy who was like [TS]

00:35:50   the Running Start rack after Gene [TS]

00:35:52   Roddenberry died and brent Spiner has a [TS]

00:35:55   story credit here which is also bizarre [TS]

00:35:58   and a bad sign i would say whenever one [TS]

00:36:01   of your cast members sorry start start [TS]

00:36:03   beyond Simon Pegg screenplay credit um [TS]

00:36:07   the so stark nemesis the whole premise [TS]

00:36:11   here is Tom Hardy it's years before he [TS]

00:36:13   was bein sorry like work before he was [TS]

00:36:15   building dog man is is a clone of [TS]

00:36:19   Captain Picard who's for some reason [TS]

00:36:23   they were gonna try to replace Captain [TS]

00:36:25   Picard and the but just as we meet him [TS]

00:36:28   he's starting to decay and die from [TS]

00:36:30   failed cloning something-or-other anyway [TS]

00:36:34   up one of RNA Jason his or his RNA thank [TS]

00:36:37   you rule anyway so he's he's compile or [TS]

00:36:40   RNA sequence with the Riemann's who were [TS]

00:36:41   like next to the Romulans but not the [TS]

00:36:44   Romulans mental kind of like vampires [TS]

00:36:47   from buffy the vampire slayer' and duck [TS]

00:36:49   and and what's in ron perlman is helpful [TS]

00:36:53   at TVs hellboy sorry movies hellboy is [TS]

00:36:55   the Viceroy has his pal [TS]

00:36:57   I don't know they have a plan to destroy [TS]

00:37:00   everybody with this weapon that is [TS]

00:37:02   creepy and they lower the enterprise [TS]

00:37:06   with eighth a data prototype called [TS]

00:37:09   before uh [TS]

00:37:11   at which they leave on a planet which [TS]

00:37:13   leads to a very exciting except not [TS]

00:37:15   exciting at all dune buggy scenes it was [TS]

00:37:18   interminable and then in the end they [TS]

00:37:21   crashed the ships together and data [TS]

00:37:22   sacrifices himself to phaser the thing [TS]

00:37:25   and blow it up and then they say we give [TS]

00:37:29   up and there are no more next generation [TS]

00:37:31   the movies I think that's pretty much [TS]

00:37:32   how this one ok so i had a couple [TS]

00:37:34   comments about this is off the top one [TS]

00:37:36   it's it's actually a much better looking [TS]

00:37:38   movie than insurrection and gases just [TS]

00:37:40   interim looks like a TV episode [TS]

00:37:42   this looks like a movie there are some [TS]

00:37:44   good i mean like patrick stewart and i'm [TS]

00:37:47   sitting on the Box looks like a movie [TS]

00:37:51   I mean that's restored and tom hardy [TS]

00:37:53   both good actors and i actually had like [TS]

00:37:56   the premise that there is like a clone [TS]

00:37:58   of the card like that's kind of a cool [TS]

00:37:59   entry direction I know although i will [TS]

00:38:01   say the Porco's again saga did that same [TS]

00:38:03   plot much better and the idea that you [TS]

00:38:06   have scenes work Picard his clone are [TS]

00:38:09   doing like hello I'm just like you it [TS]

00:38:12   sounds like those students would be good [TS]

00:38:14   right it's so boring it's so worried why [TS]

00:38:18   is this boring i can't figure it out it [TS]

00:38:20   should be good but it's boring haha [TS]

00:38:23   every time that they're talking about [TS]

00:38:25   how they're very similar it's like [TS]

00:38:26   they're not actually similar at all the [TS]

00:38:30   words pet restored impression ever will [TS]

00:38:32   very much like you and I captain you [TS]

00:38:34   have a note we are you have a chin with [TS]

00:38:36   a cleft and I have a PCM no hair just [TS]

00:38:38   like to look left so we're very similar [TS]

00:38:41   I felt like Captain Picard is more [TS]

00:38:44   especially by this point is life more [TS]

00:38:45   self-aware and more self-assured then [TS]

00:38:48   was required for this plot so they just [TS]

00:38:50   don't him down and make sure of himself [TS]

00:38:52   so that he could have this elusive moral [TS]

00:38:55   dilemma that just does not play the [TS]

00:38:58   board the lemon or the lumber is like [TS]

00:39:00   what i have done this it's like that's [TS]

00:39:01   not even relevant [TS]

00:39:03   definitely like okay so what I would [TS]

00:39:06   have done this so i should give him a [TS]

00:39:07   pass i'm just killing in Kentucky you [TS]

00:39:09   know I Tom party tom hardy is given a [TS]

00:39:12   very difficult this month [TS]

00:39:13   Tom Hardy's very first roles he's given [TS]

00:39:15   a difficult job he isn't makeup to try [TS]

00:39:18   to make them look a little more like [TS]

00:39:19   patrick stewart young Patrick Stewart [TS]

00:39:22   when I apparently that's James McAvoy I [TS]

00:39:25   sorry franchise my girlfriend actually [TS]

00:39:28   thought it was James McAvoy for a moment [TS]

00:39:30   I was like that's weird [TS]

00:39:32   so is it but you know I IE tries and [TS]

00:39:35   there are some moments with him that are [TS]

00:39:36   kind of interesting but you're right the [TS]

00:39:37   problem is that I that Patrick Stewart [TS]

00:39:41   has got it so together to what you [TS]

00:39:42   really want is like decisions on [TS]

00:39:44   legitimately struggling with being a [TS]

00:39:48   good person or kind of following the [TS]

00:39:50   goals of his Viceroy and because there's [TS]

00:39:53   this is this implication that the [TS]

00:39:55   Riemann's are these put up on people [TS]

00:39:57   there bends the slaves to the Romulans [TS]

00:39:58   and now they're having a revolt and and [TS]

00:40:01   yet it gets caught up in this kind of [TS]

00:40:02   like button Bond villain ask i'm going [TS]

00:40:04   to destroy Earth thing instead of like [TS]

00:40:06   let's right the wrongs in the Romulan [TS]

00:40:08   Empire it would have been an interesting [TS]

00:40:10   story if the idea was like Picard trying [TS]

00:40:12   to to steer his clone essentially his [TS]

00:40:15   twin into making the right choices [TS]

00:40:17   instead of the wrong choices but instead [TS]

00:40:19   the heat you know he's just a James Bond [TS]

00:40:22   villain it's all part of a plot before [TS]

00:40:24   has been poisoned with bad information [TS]

00:40:26   to make him a spy it except there's a [TS]

00:40:29   double-cross and in the end they kind of [TS]

00:40:31   waste this whole premise of of Picard is [TS]

00:40:37   clone and like nature versus nurture [TS]

00:40:38   it's just in the end it's just kind of [TS]

00:40:40   why even do it and they make data stupid [TS]

00:40:43   the reason that this whole thing off its [TS]

00:40:45   fake data thing comes in is it suddenly [TS]

00:40:47   for some reason data is dumb enough he [TS]

00:40:49   doesn't think to change his passwords [TS]

00:40:50   before like know what really gets me is [TS]

00:40:55   have any of you ever read the original [TS]

00:40:57   Star Trek nemesis script with where it [TS]

00:41:01   wasn't before it was benign has yeah I [TS]

00:41:03   had repaired that's great with benign [TS]

00:41:05   yeah it is this is what fundamentally [TS]

00:41:08   can't understand because before this [TS]

00:41:10   movie came out this was the era when [TS]

00:41:12   like dinner where scripts are being [TS]

00:41:15   leaked on the Internet [TS]

00:41:16   it was really big problem yeah I read [TS]

00:41:19   the generation script like us a year [TS]

00:41:21   before it came out absolutely so we were [TS]

00:41:23   all doing that and i remember reading [TS]

00:41:25   this and thinking my god this is really [TS]

00:41:29   this is gonna be a powerful movie like [TS]

00:41:31   they're gonna kill the the Romulan [TS]

00:41:34   Senate it's like you said Jason they're [TS]

00:41:36   all these scenes with like Picard and [TS]

00:41:38   his clone like really feeling like [TS]

00:41:41   echoes of each other and the dialogue is [TS]

00:41:42   really sharp and and painful and then I [TS]

00:41:45   remember going to the theater go [TS]

00:41:47   what happened did get a sort of rider [TS]

00:41:50   hid themselves in the head with [TS]

00:41:52   something [TS]

00:41:53   what is going on here i I don't [TS]

00:41:56   understand because this is a very power [TS]

00:41:58   this is story that could be told [TS]

00:42:01   extremely extremely well there's no [TS]

00:42:03   premise that is so good it can't be [TS]

00:42:05   flooded and there's no premise that's so [TS]

00:42:07   bad it can't be done well this is an [TS]

00:42:10   exceptional idea and it's like Tom Hardy [TS]

00:42:14   is an exceptional actor in other things [TS]

00:42:17   I think so it's clearly not him is an [TS]

00:42:20   actor unless he was just drastically [TS]

00:42:22   works back then it got some good [TS]

00:42:23   training I I don't understand what [TS]

00:42:26   happened here [TS]

00:42:27   I look like I'm letting this i will say [TS]

00:42:30   this for nemesis that in that first [TS]

00:42:32   scene when you were looking at the the [TS]

00:42:33   Romulan senator whatever it's it's [TS]

00:42:36   already better as far as I women's [TS]

00:42:38   representation and places of power than [TS]

00:42:40   star trek into darkness was yeah I'm [TS]

00:42:42   just ready to have another both of these [TS]

00:42:44   are then in in both gender and diversity [TS]

00:42:48   well no no it gets it gets much worse [TS]

00:42:49   for the rest of the movie [TS]

00:42:51   yeah because that's 10 Romulan woman [TS]

00:42:53   using her sexiness to try to get yeah [TS]

00:42:55   and then we get a dream rape scene that [TS]

00:42:59   that is we are destroyed that choice but [TS]

00:43:01   i didn't really present for a minute I [TS]

00:43:04   was i am not going to say it was okay [TS]

00:43:05   with it but for a minute when it's troy [TS]

00:43:07   that actually gets to be the one who [TS]

00:43:09   uses her psychic connection to sort of [TS]

00:43:11   get her own revenge I was like yeah they [TS]

00:43:13   gave her agency they're not having [TS]

00:43:14   somebody to fight for her right and then [TS]

00:43:16   they ruined it all by having Riker be [TS]

00:43:18   the one that has the showdown with the [TS]

00:43:19   dude that did that in the first place [TS]

00:43:20   was like nope you lost me [TS]

00:43:22   why do they send Riker into the [TS]

00:43:24   corridors to just do a fight scene and [TS]

00:43:27   then that and and [TS]

00:43:28   in the moment you're like ha there's [TS]

00:43:30   fighting this it's it's like there was a [TS]

00:43:31   again a producer not like more hand and [TS]

00:43:33   fighting all right we'll have regular [TS]

00:43:35   gonna but the moment that made me laugh [TS]

00:43:36   out loud is when at the very end breaker [TS]

00:43:38   just kind of shows up back on the bridge [TS]

00:43:40   at the end like hey guys i was in that [TS]

00:43:42   fight scene but I'm back now i have any [TS]

00:43:45   questions about that fight see why not [TS]

00:43:47   send wharf [TS]

00:43:48   yeah I know what when why not have a [TS]

00:43:50   cover for that Jefferies tube that [TS]

00:43:51   people could just fall that is there a [TS]

00:43:54   judge and the shaft with a precarious [TS]

00:43:57   bridge somewhere in the innards of the [TS]

00:43:59   enterprise the same people make the [TS]

00:44:00   catwalks in the storm star wars and star [TS]

00:44:03   lifestyle and these at least heron [TS]

00:44:05   handrails though they just don't work [TS]

00:44:06   when they're turned on the side but i [TS]

00:44:08   have just screws here then screw them [TS]

00:44:11   into the bulkhead so that's good [TS]

00:44:13   yeah well it also doesn't make any sense [TS]

00:44:15   be Dec 29 and let's not get it looks [TS]

00:44:18   like i said how much is right blue [TS]

00:44:20   prints i didn't have the trip Dec 29 [TS]

00:44:22   that line i was i was saying to myself [TS]

00:44:24   random number generator 29 and is the [TS]

00:44:28   birthdate of your child's like why so [TS]

00:44:30   specifically Dec 29 but they said write [TS]

00:44:32   her off and and I again it just feels [TS]

00:44:36   completely kind of bogus like we need to [TS]

00:44:38   give Riker something to do so why don't [TS]

00:44:39   we have a big fight scene with this one [TS]

00:44:42   Riemann who's left on the ship and and [TS]

00:44:45   many dispatches him by having employment [TS]

00:44:47   to his death so was that or was that not [TS]

00:44:49   the the Viceroy I don't run the right [TS]

00:44:52   ring finger ya see what I can tell [TS]

00:44:54   you're always the same sorry mythology [TS]

00:44:56   always look like to be gracious i don't [TS]

00:44:59   have a great time with all I think it [TS]

00:45:03   was because he's getting revenge on the [TS]

00:45:05   you know but the dude that violated his [TS]

00:45:07   woman which is what made me so mad I [TS]

00:45:09   guess also using mr. Troy as an insult [TS]

00:45:12   was just another thing that made me [TS]

00:45:13   shake my mom makes it so frustrated [TS]

00:45:16   about these two movies is if you [TS]

00:45:18   remember this era like deep space nine [TS]

00:45:21   was much better than tangi which was [TS]

00:45:23   much better about ta centos and having [TS]

00:45:26   women be on the show you don't have [TS]

00:45:28   agency and be characters and then voyage [TS]

00:45:30   our camera which is just by far the best [TS]

00:45:33   Star Trek statistically they've looked [TS]

00:45:35   at it it is [TS]

00:45:37   and women representation and whether on [TS]

00:45:40   certain that and we get and we gotta [TS]

00:45:41   Janeway cameo a nemesis that's actually [TS]

00:45:43   terrible fire woman could have been any [TS]

00:45:45   generic Admiral and it's Admiral Janeway [TS]

00:45:47   with a stronger than you think simply [TS]

00:45:49   card and look at the way they're women [TS]

00:45:51   actually get your curfew speak and be [TS]

00:45:54   characters in this in this particular [TS]

00:45:55   one it is really bad and you know it's [TS]

00:45:58   like you say we have like a psychic rape [TS]

00:46:01   scene that's not really a closet [TS]

00:46:03   indicator that you're on the right track [TS]

00:46:04   there i think they take a break to tell [TS]

00:46:07   you about one of our sponsors it is [TS]

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00:46:50   audible.com also has a great listen [TS]

00:46:53   guarantee if you decide you don't like [TS]

00:46:55   the book you chose don't worry about it [TS]

00:46:56   you can exchange any book you aren't [TS]

00:46:58   happy with for another title anytime [TS]

00:47:00   no-questions-asked now i'm going to [TS]

00:47:02   recommend a book that I think you should [TS]

00:47:04   listen to i just finished its really [TS]

00:47:06   great it's called barska the elephant's [TS]

00:47:08   graveyard that's baars k it's by [TS]

00:47:10   Lawrence M shown narrated by jg hertzler [TS]

00:47:12   on audible check it out [TS]

00:47:15   it is about anthropomorphic elephants [TS]

00:47:18   and other similar creatures and seems [TS]

00:47:22   very I'm not sure whether the [TS]

00:47:24   science-fiction book but thanks to [TS]

00:47:25   fantasy novel or a fantasy novel things [TS]

00:47:27   that science fiction [TS]

00:47:28   either way it matches up the genres a [TS]

00:47:30   little bit and has elephants in it so I [TS]

00:47:32   like it for all the listeners out there [TS]

00:47:34   no matter what book you choose [TS]

00:47:36   audible.com is offering a free 30-day [TS]

00:47:38   trial membership go to audible.com / [TS]

00:47:40   smell today to start your free trial [TS]

00:47:43   again show your support for the [TS]

00:47:44   uncomfortable and get a free 30-day [TS]

00:47:46   trial at audible.com / smell thank you [TS]

00:47:49   to audible for sponsoring the [TS]

00:47:50   incomparable [TS]

00:47:51   there's a moment where there where they [TS]

00:47:52   are where they're going to beam down to [TS]

00:47:54   to Romulus and he's like all right away [TS]

00:47:58   team let's go to this invitation that [TS]

00:48:00   they've gotten where they just kind of [TS]

00:48:02   go around [TS]

00:48:02   well I guess we'll just fly to Romulus [TS]

00:48:04   by the way I had questions about that [TS]

00:48:06   too like let's just cross the neutral [TS]

00:48:07   zone and going around it'll be okay we [TS]

00:48:09   got an invitation could we show you our [TS]

00:48:11   invitation card that we got from the [TS]

00:48:12   congratulations on he said we can come [TS]

00:48:14   and then they just start are hovering [TS]

00:48:16   around like I guess we'll just wait here [TS]

00:48:17   until they tell us what to do for [TS]

00:48:19   independent team something hours nobody [TS]

00:48:21   talks to them all that and then finally [TS]

00:48:23   they they picked they send them the [TS]

00:48:25   invite you know beyond down here the [TS]

00:48:27   locations and he says okay away team [TS]

00:48:29   let's go and there's that moment where [TS]

00:48:30   they all leave the bridges like there's [TS]

00:48:32   nobody left on the bridge was like the [TS]

00:48:34   senior staff [TS]

00:48:35   yeah all the terrible idea [TS]

00:48:36   supernumeraries are there but what [TS]

00:48:38   struck me of that scene 2 is that I [TS]

00:48:39   think there's like one woman and all the [TS]

00:48:41   supernumeraries and i'm kinda like come [TS]

00:48:42   on guys [TS]

00:48:43   yeah this is your opportunity to just [TS]

00:48:45   like it to be a little bit nopee there [TS]

00:48:47   it's just like our extras or white guys [TS]

00:48:50   then no okay and there's nobody else [TS]

00:48:53   left on the ship because we've all all [TS]

00:48:55   the important characters have now beam [TS]

00:48:56   down to to have the lengthy boring [TS]

00:49:00   supposedly creepy scene where Tom Hardy [TS]

00:49:04   takes the lights up a little bit talk to [TS]

00:49:06   a smart light bulbs as serie turn up the [TS]

00:49:08   lights a little hasn't turned back down [TS]

00:49:10   a little bit [TS]

00:49:11   ron perlman kind of comes in and growls [TS]

00:49:13   and then goes back out again goes on [TS]

00:49:15   forever it's really boring i suppose [TS]

00:49:17   we're supposed to be in that whole scene [TS]

00:49:19   we're supposed to be like oh my god oh [TS]

00:49:20   my god oh my god it's Picard is a young [TS]

00:49:22   Picard oh my god but not only does that [TS]

00:49:25   not happen but then in the movie it's [TS]

00:49:28   like I kept waiting for tom hardy to be [TS]

00:49:29   like you getting it yet have you figured [TS]

00:49:31   it out yet [TS]

00:49:32   do you see this smile if I serious [TS]

00:49:34   anxiety when he does it's it's but I I [TS]

00:49:37   kept waiting for it to be broader [TS]

00:49:38   because it's like first off their plant [TS]

00:49:41   you can't play it like it's obvious and [TS]

00:49:43   also that you didn't get it but that's [TS]

00:49:44   what this movie does it say you and I [TS]

00:49:48   are not so different because work is why [TS]

00:49:51   right so the card [TS]

00:49:53   literally invited to dinner and says [TS]

00:49:55   just the one yes he does [TS]

00:49:57   we don't know what's worse than that [TS]

00:49:59   it's like just the two of us we should i [TS]

00:50:01   say no uh-uh I don't understand was just [TS]

00:50:07   a bad that's a bad scene that's I'm just [TS]

00:50:09   missing anything Justin right legend [TS]

00:50:11   says yeah I think you'll be this isn't [TS]

00:50:13   it is the tradition of the Riemann [TS]

00:50:15   greeting here let me be done this night [TS]

00:50:17   for you [TS]

00:50:18   well this is also the scene to where [TS]

00:50:20   he's super creepy about like i've never [TS]

00:50:21   seen a human woman before tonight [TS]

00:50:24   ok yeah that was crazy but not in the I [TS]

00:50:28   don't think it was creepy the way they [TS]

00:50:30   were going for you know now yeah it was [TS]

00:50:32   it was definitely not what they were [TS]

00:50:33   going for it [TS]

00:50:34   no I'm against what they were going to [TS]

00:50:35   get a weapon again if he has a story arc [TS]

00:50:38   where he's actually this messed-up guy [TS]

00:50:39   who might be good and it might be bad [TS]

00:50:41   and he's feel feels totally isolated and [TS]

00:50:44   its first time seeing humans you could [TS]

00:50:46   see it as being a very Star Trek kind of [TS]

00:50:48   shorthand of oh he doesn't know about [TS]

00:50:50   you know how proper behavior is and it [TS]

00:50:54   would be it wouldn't be good but it [TS]

00:50:55   would be very Star Trek but none of that [TS]

00:50:57   is built up he's just like this totally [TS]

00:50:59   creepy James Bond villain I mean I'm a [TS]

00:51:01   little surprised he doesn't have a [TS]

00:51:02   Romulan cat to stroke while he's talking [TS]

00:51:05   because he is these got the bald [TS]

00:51:07   everything in the pleather the whole [TS]

00:51:09   thing that can make it was too hard to [TS]

00:51:11   put on but the shoulder pets all the [TS]

00:51:15   shoulder pads but let's rainbow out the [TS]

00:51:17   applets oh yeah he's like a bug's [TS]

00:51:19   carapaces care [TS]

00:51:20   yes Romulans don't have a set match [TS]

00:51:24   I didn't really like his origin story [TS]

00:51:26   either which is well they sent me to [TS]

00:51:28   they did they they made me this clone [TS]

00:51:30   because they had this plot but then it [TS]

00:51:31   didn't work out so they sent me to the [TS]

00:51:33   the the slaves and they raised me and [TS]

00:51:36   then we had a revolt and here i am [TS]

00:51:38   putting you have a note in my notes that [TS]

00:51:41   just it's three words it says backstory [TS]

00:51:43   is boring [TS]

00:51:44   that's where it doesn't really make any [TS]

00:51:46   sense you're this big secret weapon and [TS]

00:51:49   then they throw you away but you lead a [TS]

00:51:51   revolt and now that you've got through [TS]

00:51:52   the revolt all worked out let don't [TS]

00:51:54   don't ask for specifics about that but [TS]

00:51:57   again he leads a revolt but he also in [TS]

00:51:59   his backstory he's led like 12 battles [TS]

00:52:02   for the Romulan Empire against the [TS]

00:52:04   Dominion [TS]

00:52:05   yeah why is the wire the Romulans [TS]

00:52:07   letting him command ships doesn't make [TS]

00:52:09   sense you can you know you can build a [TS]

00:52:12   special super-secret prototype warbird a [TS]

00:52:15   super secret base that he has access to [TS]

00:52:17   for some reason also it's amazing and [TS]

00:52:20   perfect cloaking and all these also use [TS]

00:52:22   ships on it wow they are really not [TS]

00:52:24   paying any attention to the Riemann well [TS]

00:52:25   he's he's that he's like well that is [TS]

00:52:27   very much a star trek into darkness [TS]

00:52:29   thing to where it's like I don't really [TS]

00:52:31   believe that one person can go off and [TS]

00:52:33   build an advanced starship on their home [TS]

00:52:35   be smothered one piece in every day [TS]

00:52:38   yep an issue it is and it in his pants [TS]

00:52:41   and he was just like let it fall on the [TS]

00:52:42   floor and yeah oh yeah I have another [TS]

00:52:45   note my notes are just just a little bit [TS]

00:52:47   after that it's a forward such already [TS]

00:52:48   tweeted about this just I just don't [TS]

00:52:50   care [TS]

00:52:51   you mean it was a terrible way we're [TS]

00:52:52   going to tell my notes admitted i think [TS]

00:52:56   i did tweet my favorite lines in this [TS]

00:52:57   movie which is I have an appointment [TS]

00:52:58   with the fully ambassador which is how [TS]

00:53:01   the Romulan say they're going to the [TS]

00:53:02   bathroom [TS]

00:53:03   oh that's right so what would the other [TS]

00:53:07   they're really gets me about this movie [TS]

00:53:08   is I don't know how you all feel but one [TS]

00:53:11   of the things that makes wrath of kind [TS]

00:53:13   so powerful for me is box death see it [TS]

00:53:17   move yet deeply every time I see it and [TS]

00:53:20   I always cry I always will cry and we [TS]

00:53:24   knew the data was going to die [TS]

00:53:25   going into this movie and I just feel [TS]

00:53:30   like it's so disrespectful how badly [TS]

00:53:32   they executed this like be four is a [TS]

00:53:38   horrible take on David like Laura's at [TS]

00:53:40   least an interesting extrapolation of [TS]

00:53:43   who data is in like his dark side and [TS]

00:53:45   like the the struggle with emotions vs [TS]

00:53:48   growth and humanity that is interesting [TS]

00:53:50   before is just a really terrible mr. [TS]

00:53:54   scenario type about some about some [TS]

00:53:58   marginalized groups and to have data is [TS]

00:54:02   death scene [TS]

00:54:04   who's probably like besides Picard the [TS]

00:54:06   most beloved character if not the most [TS]

00:54:08   beloved character certainly of TNG be so [TS]

00:54:11   cheap and crappily written and just [TS]

00:54:14   thrown away and so incidental and so [TS]

00:54:17   meaningless [TS]

00:54:18   is such a massive amount of disrespect [TS]

00:54:21   to that character it makes me angry but [TS]

00:54:24   would you all agree the anomaly the [TS]

00:54:27   amount of upset i was at data being [TS]

00:54:29   stupid for not changing his password is [TS]

00:54:31   well here to the rage I feel for him [TS]

00:54:33   being so stupid he didn't give captain [TS]

00:54:35   picard the little transporter thing [TS]

00:54:36   before he just started to wear actually [TS]

00:54:39   yeah what yeah baby and and no amount of [TS]

00:54:42   toasts from chateau Picard wine after [TS]

00:54:45   he's died will because again although [TS]

00:54:48   the the coffin scenester to is poignant [TS]

00:54:51   it's made more poignant by the fact that [TS]

00:54:54   we have the spot death scene where as [TS]

00:54:56   datas death scene is he sticks a thing [TS]

00:54:58   on Picard and fires his phaser into a [TS]

00:55:00   glowing thing and that's it and that's [TS]

00:55:03   all we get and and it's unfulfilling the [TS]

00:55:07   the fact that before seems to have his [TS]

00:55:10   memories and it's very clearly like the [TS]

00:55:13   you know obviously in the next in the [TS]

00:55:15   next movie that was never made data [TS]

00:55:16   would be back because they they make a [TS]

00:55:18   point in the script of saying he's [TS]

00:55:20   physically exactly like me it's only his [TS]

00:55:22   mind that's different and i'm putting my [TS]

00:55:24   memories in him it's very clearly set up [TS]

00:55:26   kind of like the remember thing and [TS]

00:55:28   start to always get Briana Briana was [TS]

00:55:30   gonna take it back even further and say [TS]

00:55:32   I feel like this movie more than any [TS]

00:55:34   other star trek movie is trying so hard [TS]

00:55:37   to be star trek to guess on every level [TS]

00:55:40   anyone bail on every level of being star [TS]

00:55:45   trek to ya [TS]

00:55:46   star trek to and star trek 6 which were [TS]

00:55:48   both will start with 6 is trying to be [TS]

00:55:50   star trek to this is true your head so [TS]

00:55:52   it's like it more successfully [TS]

00:55:55   I like it yeah I know about Star Trek's [TS]

00:55:57   is one of my favorites i met distant i'm [TS]

00:55:59   just saying that that that it is [TS]

00:56:01   starting to is the Goldfinger of of Star [TS]

00:56:04   Trek movies basically where they every [TS]

00:56:06   time it's just like hey we need [TS]

00:56:07   something the audience likes let's go [TS]

00:56:09   let's go up mind something from that and [TS]

00:56:11   so yeah but if it totally not well [TS]

00:56:14   executed at all here horrible job you [TS]

00:56:18   feel cheated you don't feel any of the [TS]

00:56:21   the sweeping emotional response that you [TS]

00:56:25   feel in in star trek to there's no real [TS]

00:56:28   cleverness there's no the Enterprise [TS]

00:56:34   crew out thinking anyone else like they [TS]

00:56:36   just hit a ship into another ship [TS]

00:56:37   yeah is it just feels cheap and weird [TS]

00:56:41   technically well executed but you don't [TS]

00:56:44   you don't respond to what you're seeing [TS]

00:56:46   like it's it's it's a total disconnect [TS]

00:56:48   it's a weird like again you know [TS]

00:56:50   comparing once again to the movie before [TS]

00:56:52   this he as bad as weird as the character [TS]

00:56:56   executions are in that movie those [TS]

00:56:57   characters are recognizable where is so [TS]

00:56:59   many places here it feels like people [TS]

00:57:01   it feels like the whole clone thing it's [TS]

00:57:03   like people who look like the characters [TS]

00:57:04   that you know but don't really act or [TS]

00:57:06   talk or have any personality like the [TS]

00:57:08   characters you know a lot of the scenes [TS]

00:57:10   I mean and I'd I think that's why data [TS]

00:57:12   is death ring so Hollow is in some ways [TS]

00:57:14   it's just like well this is a real like [TS]

00:57:16   this this is all just like a holiday [TS]

00:57:19   like this is just a simulation his [TS]

00:57:21   sacrifice you don't see them Spock there [TS]

00:57:23   is a moment answer to that is a [TS]

00:57:25   beautiful moment then you may miss it if [TS]

00:57:27   it's the first time you've seen it but [TS]

00:57:28   after you've seen it once you see it and [TS]

00:57:31   it's the moment where he's on the bridge [TS]

00:57:33   and he decides to go down and fix the [TS]

00:57:36   ship that's the most boxes I will [TS]

00:57:38   sacrifice myself to save these people [TS]

00:57:39   because otherwise we're all gonna die so [TS]

00:57:41   i'm going to die and they're going to [TS]

00:57:42   live and he he does it's silent he gets [TS]

00:57:45   up he leaves the bridge and he goes down [TS]

00:57:47   their data you know he does have Georgie [TS]

00:57:51   like turn off the force field so we can [TS]

00:57:53   fly over to the other ship and all but [TS]

00:57:55   you know it's and part of it is setup [TS]

00:57:57   it's like it's this this by the way the [TS]

00:58:01   mutagenic whatever it is radiation [TS]

00:58:04   weapon that the that the Romulans have [TS]

00:58:05   are the reasons have on the shit so ever [TS]

00:58:07   that it takes like 15 minutes to go as [TS]

00:58:10   to all unfold all these spines and all [TS]

00:58:12   in or do it seems highly impractical for [TS]

00:58:15   for this and the data is there with a [TS]

00:58:17   minute to spare and uh and you know what [TS]

00:58:21   I'm saying is it doesn't feel learned i [TS]

00:58:23   mean i guess after he blows up the ship [TS]

00:58:25   were supposed to feel like that the only [TS]

00:58:27   way that it's not going to fire on the [TS]

00:58:28   enterprise's if he blows it up but the [TS]

00:58:30   rules aren't as clear as that and you [TS]

00:58:31   kind of feel like couldn't wasn't there [TS]

00:58:33   another alternative data [TS]

00:58:34   blowing yourself up it just it I again [TS]

00:58:37   that with Spock you like here it is and [TS]

00:58:40   then we get to see we get to say goodbye [TS]

00:58:41   and then it's over and and this was [TS]

00:58:44   likely yeah let's do that too [TS]

00:58:45   it's it's against the breakout character [TS]

00:58:47   who's not the lead and he he's involved [TS]

00:58:49   in the story he obviously wants to kill [TS]

00:58:51   his character off just like in Star Trek [TS]

00:58:53   to let's do it and they don't do it they [TS]

00:58:55   blew it [TS]

00:58:56   yeah well I'm also it started to your [TS]

00:58:59   not mad at Kirk when smokey eyes and in [TS]

00:59:02   this i'm at Picard he's standing around [TS]

00:59:04   like with since on bleeding on him and [TS]

00:59:06   he's like oh I guess I'll just stand [TS]

00:59:07   here on against this wall [TS]

00:59:09   yes some light pressure being applied to [TS]

00:59:10   me by a corpse and it is it's just like [TS]

00:59:13   what are you doing you you could totally [TS]

00:59:15   get out and get that phaser and blow [TS]

00:59:16   this thing up at yourself [TS]

00:59:17   yeah he's just well he's horrified [TS]

00:59:20   because he's killed himself think [TS]

00:59:23   they're tried yeah but I don't buy it [TS]

00:59:25   but now what I think it's that he's [TS]

00:59:26   tired from that fighting that wouldn't [TS]

00:59:28   end well he also rip that thing off the [TS]

00:59:30   wall so that takes a lot of effort yet [TS]

00:59:32   amazed don't make your don't make your [TS]

00:59:34   your little ship parts with spines that [TS]

00:59:37   can be pulled down easily and used to [TS]

00:59:39   ram me through people yeah you're uh [TS]

00:59:41   you're looking a little impale their [TS]

00:59:43   haha [TS]

00:59:45   also even I would have been a better [TS]

00:59:46   looking at you getting impaled what I [TS]

00:59:49   recommend is sliding further down closer [TS]

00:59:52   to your killed and their hands roaming [TS]

00:59:54   around regular it was bird can I touch [TS]

00:59:57   your hair [TS]

00:59:57   your hair [TS]

01:00:00   what were they thinking what were they [TS]

01:00:01   so this movie I talking is so in our [TS]

01:00:04   last bad Star Trek thing you know I [TS]

01:00:06   talked about how i got really mad at [TS]

01:00:08   Star Trek five like Star Trek the motion [TS]

01:00:10   picture was just bored started five was [TS]

01:00:13   like no no what are you doing a nemesis [TS]

01:00:15   I never really got to the rage levels [TS]

01:00:18   i I just was so disconnected from like [TS]

01:00:21   why but it wasn't boredom it was just [TS]

01:00:23   like you guys aren't even like you're [TS]

01:00:25   not even in the ballpark I can't even [TS]

01:00:27   I'm a district 5 because I felt like I [TS]

01:00:29   understood what they were trying to do [TS]

01:00:31   it was stupid and he was just like no [TS]

01:00:33   forget it like it's not even it i just i [TS]

01:00:35   think if i had one word of what I was [TS]

01:00:37   feeling while watching this movie was [TS]

01:00:38   contempt which is a bad thing for a [TS]

01:00:41   lifelong Star Trek fan feel for a star [TS]

01:00:43   trek movie I will also say after the [TS]

01:00:45   reviews of this movie I never even saw [TS]

01:00:47   it in the theater this is the only star [TS]

01:00:48   trek movie I never saw in the theater [TS]

01:00:50   because because everybody said it was [TS]

01:00:52   terrible and then i will I bought it on [TS]

01:00:54   DVD and i watched it one time and then [TS]

01:00:57   never again without you destroy the DVD [TS]

01:00:59   yeah this is my first time I only [TS]

01:01:01   watched it because if you guys know [TS]

01:01:03   you're what i will say i was bored [TS]

01:01:04   boredom was biting like in all capital [TS]

01:01:06   letters that is that is what i use to [TS]

01:01:08   describe my feeling about this movie [TS]

01:01:10   yeah I i well I saw this in theaters was [TS]

01:01:14   very excited about the soundtrack first [TS]

01:01:16   like brianna i also read the screenplay [TS]

01:01:18   first it was turned up to not be exactly [TS]

01:01:21   like the film I he disappointment that I [TS]

01:01:24   felt was kind of like I won't say it was [TS]

01:01:27   exactly the same as my phantom menace [TS]

01:01:28   denial of initially seeing something and [TS]

01:01:31   then being like maybe it was good it was [TS]

01:01:32   it was sort of like I don't know what I [TS]

01:01:34   just saw when I walked out and I was [TS]

01:01:35   kind of sad and angry at the same time [TS]

01:01:37   because this was it just felt like this [TS]

01:01:40   was leading up to such a big thing like [TS]

01:01:42   they had taken out these big ads for [TS]

01:01:44   Oscar consideration for the visual [TS]

01:01:45   effects and they'd done almost every [TS]

01:01:48   roof [TS]

01:01:48   yeah then all the stuff for the press [TS]

01:01:50   for this and it was just like you guys [TS]

01:01:52   blew it like this this yes it is such a [TS]

01:01:55   catastrophe and I could tell like from [TS]

01:01:57   seeing this that this was this was it [TS]

01:01:58   like it was it was such a depressing [TS]

01:02:02   moment for me and you know I had seen [TS]

01:02:03   insurrection in the theater I didn't get [TS]

01:02:05   that same feeling of like this is it [TS]

01:02:08   this is over like no this this felt like [TS]

01:02:10   it was over [TS]

01:02:11   well plus you have a more like that's ok [TS]

01:02:13   this is [TS]

01:02:13   on movie an odd movie goes it's ok with [TS]

01:02:16   you even when we were really going to [TS]

01:02:17   get him with the even movie [TS]

01:02:18   oh and and go to jason's point this [TS]

01:02:21   isn't even so dumb like I feel like with [TS]

01:02:22   the yeah the rage thing is fun because [TS]

01:02:24   then at least you get wrapped up in like [TS]

01:02:26   all this movie so bad it's like what's [TS]

01:02:28   at least of the bad movie i can make fun [TS]

01:02:30   of where is this movie that like I was [TS]

01:02:31   trying to tweet stupid things about it [TS]

01:02:33   and I don't I lost interest [TS]

01:02:35   so you can be saying dumb things about [TS]

01:02:36   this movie yeah it's not i mean it and [TS]

01:02:40   what's for the vexing about it is it [TS]

01:02:42   doesn't look good [TS]

01:02:43   it looks good it is it is technically [TS]

01:02:46   competent obviously i mean i don't i [TS]

01:02:48   don't actually know maybe Joe knows it [TS]

01:02:50   feels like a lot less cheap an [TS]

01:02:52   insurrection does it feels like they [TS]

01:02:55   spent money on the sets they mean they [TS]

01:02:57   certainly spend money on the pointless [TS]

01:02:59   desert dune buggy scene which that which [TS]

01:03:03   is Stuart barons crowning achievement [TS]

01:03:05   that he was so proud of including yes so [TS]

01:03:07   that it's so useless and it feels like [TS]

01:03:10   something out of a screenwriting [TS]

01:03:11   handbook like what you need to have an [TS]

01:03:13   initial action seem to keep the audience [TS]

01:03:15   engaged at the beginning of the movie so [TS]

01:03:17   we're going to have this thing where [TS]

01:03:18   there's there on dune buggy and they try [TS]

01:03:20   to play it four laps a little bit like [TS]

01:03:22   Picard was wanted to take the dune buggy [TS]

01:03:23   out but you know you shouldn't have like [TS]

01:03:26   landspeeders or something at this point [TS]

01:03:28   star trek it's just gotta be there like [TS]

01:03:31   stuck simulation cars aim dune buggies [TS]

01:03:35   as the pre-warp civilization that then [TS]

01:03:37   chases them yeah yeah it it's a it's [TS]

01:03:40   stuff like that where that that was [TS]

01:03:43   expensive and you can tell that it was [TS]

01:03:45   expensive so okay fair enough it it [TS]

01:03:46   feels like they spent a lot of money on [TS]

01:03:48   it but it's just it's just awful [TS]

01:03:50   it's just not in a good me at any point [TS]

01:03:52   does it feel like they're we haven't [TS]

01:03:55   even talked about the wedding which is [TS]

01:03:57   which is like cameo central of the the [TS]

01:04:01   participate it's the it's the Troy Riker [TS]

01:04:03   apparently that that that shave in the [TS]

01:04:05   bathtub really did wonders for their [TS]

01:04:07   relationship because they get married [TS]

01:04:08   and thank God he grew the beard back can [TS]

01:04:11   all agree on that i will say i actually [TS]

01:04:13   like Captain Picard speech at the [TS]

01:04:15   beginning it as a best man I enjoyed [TS]

01:04:17   that city playing off all our knowledge [TS]

01:04:18   of the TV series of the characters of [TS]

01:04:20   like yeah the week because we know all [TS]

01:04:22   these people so well right so yeah and I [TS]

01:04:24   love [TS]

01:04:24   Lupe's cameo 30 you know didn't he [TS]

01:04:27   wasn't even there [TS]

01:04:29   well we doesn't get a line no I scenes [TS]

01:04:31   that the only two black characters [TS]

01:04:33   sitting at a table together talking to [TS]

01:04:34   each other like highlights helping their [TS]

01:04:36   list this movie is yeah Jordy also I I [TS]

01:04:39   thought it was really funny i'm in [TS]

01:04:41   insurrection it seems like jewelry got [TS]

01:04:43   healed but here he's got his content [TS]

01:04:45   later they say he was says at one point [TS]

01:04:47   insurrection is not sure if it will last [TS]

01:04:48   or not [TS]

01:04:49   yeah yeah yeah it was definitely for why [TS]

01:04:51   don't we want a little less but no he's [TS]

01:04:53   got his little context back there [TS]

01:04:54   apparently according to an article I [TS]

01:04:56   read the the director of this film [TS]

01:04:59   couldn't remember [TS]

01:05:01   levar Burton's character's name and [TS]

01:05:04   thought he was an alien because he had [TS]

01:05:05   the funny contact lens [TS]

01:05:07   he also apparently according to [TS]

01:05:08   wikimedia liver not did not watch a [TS]

01:05:11   single episode of next generation and so [TS]

01:05:13   bad [TS]

01:05:14   which kind of show I think that's kind [TS]

01:05:16   of the emblematic thing to take away [TS]

01:05:17   from this is like if you don't watch a [TS]

01:05:19   single episode of the show we wanted it [TS]

01:05:21   to not feel like a TV I get the idea [TS]

01:05:23   like we don't want to feel like an [TS]

01:05:25   episode but it's just not well it feels [TS]

01:05:27   like a completely disposable sci-fi [TS]

01:05:30   action sci-fi action movie or mid budget [TS]

01:05:33   sci fi action movie that's what it feels [TS]

01:05:34   like a forgettable the only reason we're [TS]

01:05:37   even talking about it now is because it [TS]

01:05:39   was a star trek movie [TS]

01:05:40   otherwise this would be a movie you [TS]

01:05:41   would see on cable some time and be like [TS]

01:05:43   did I see that but because it's a star [TS]

01:05:46   trek movie we talk about it i did see it [TS]

01:05:48   in the theater and unlike insurrection [TS]

01:05:50   which I remembered several parts of I [TS]

01:05:52   remembered very little about this movie [TS]

01:05:54   really party and that seemed with data [TS]

01:05:56   jumping over the rest of it was totally [TS]

01:05:59   forgettable for me [TS]

01:06:00   hello yeah I don't know to me I I think [TS]

01:06:04   of this is you know something i think a [TS]

01:06:06   lot with my job is about lighting and [TS]

01:06:09   set design and cinematography and shot [TS]

01:06:11   composition and I think like of all the [TS]

01:06:14   the next generation movies just as far [TS]

01:06:16   as being a beautiful film i think this [TS]

01:06:19   is actually the apex of the the the TNG [TS]

01:06:23   movies just just purely for having [TS]

01:06:25   interesting shots in in in like a good [TS]

01:06:28   color gradient like it it's something [TS]

01:06:31   feels very dark and serious it's just a [TS]

01:06:33   shame the script can't live up to the RT [TS]

01:06:36   know it does look at that was Hollow [TS]

01:06:38   that was part of why i didn't like it [TS]

01:06:39   because it's it's pretty in such a grim [TS]

01:06:41   dark way and there's nothing to hold it [TS]

01:06:43   up that I actually liked the look of [TS]

01:06:44   insurrection better simply because it [TS]

01:06:46   was a better reflection of the the meat [TS]

01:06:48   of the film [TS]

01:06:50   I mean I i will all agree more with what [TS]

01:06:55   Briana saying but i prefer first [TS]

01:06:56   contacts look because i think it's more [TS]

01:06:58   of the mysteries sort of the right [TS]

01:06:59   balance of you know it's it's it's dark [TS]

01:07:02   but not like bleak like this like this [TS]

01:07:04   is the end in terms of like a budget [TS]

01:07:09   since Jason mentioned i decided to go [TS]

01:07:10   look up this one second remember and [TS]

01:07:12   it's a yeah it's only two million more [TS]

01:07:15   than insurrection so they day technology [TS]

01:07:18   came a long way to yeah well it did [TS]

01:07:20   because it was a she doesn't to that [TS]

01:07:23   this is asking for years later and it [TS]

01:07:24   looks a lot better [TS]

01:07:25   it really does look a lot better yeah [TS]

01:07:27   they also got digital domain to do it [TS]

01:07:28   which was an actual like good effects [TS]

01:07:30   house and not Santa Barbara Studios [TS]

01:07:32   which is no longer in existence but it [TS]

01:07:36   did the other weird and telling thing [TS]

01:07:38   about this is that it had a 60 million [TS]

01:07:40   dollar budget and its box office with 67 [TS]

01:07:43   yeah and insurrection had 58 and it made [TS]

01:07:47   a hundred twelve and that was considered [TS]

01:07:48   a disappointment one know if you look if [TS]

01:07:51   you look at the the adjusted by current [TS]

01:07:55   dollars box office of Star Trek movies [TS]

01:07:58   nemesis is the all-time flop of Star [TS]

01:08:01   Trek movies is the last one and there's [TS]

01:08:03   no that that's why it's the last one [TS]

01:08:05   although it is funny to think about the [TS]

01:08:07   fact that only six years later [TS]

01:08:09   JJ Abrams reboot of the series it did [TS]

01:08:12   for it seems like that was years it [TS]

01:08:14   seems much 2000-2008 right there was a [TS]

01:08:17   2009 okay seven years seven years it [TS]

01:08:20   seems like a generation passed right [TS]

01:08:22   track on TV at the time anyway I was a [TS]

01:08:26   real desert right yeah that's true so [TS]

01:08:28   true i don't know i think like I think [TS]

01:08:31   one of the reasons this movie didn't do [TS]

01:08:33   very well is you know it did [TS]

01:08:35   complemented two years after [TS]

01:08:36   insurrection and here's why today I was [TS]

01:08:40   very glad to hear that episode of star [TS]

01:08:42   star wars is being delayed for you know [TS]

01:08:45   basically another year because i think [TS]

01:08:47   it giving audiences a break and you're [TS]

01:08:50   not have [TS]

01:08:51   this there's a pattern they follow the [TS]

01:08:53   video game industry called annual [TS]

01:08:54   ization where you just keep putting [TS]

01:08:56   stuff out because she was a paycheck and [TS]

01:08:59   dependable paycheck I don't think that's [TS]

01:09:01   a pattern the star trek movies can [TS]

01:09:04   really follow you know what I mean like [TS]

01:09:06   it just you kind of need a break so they [TS]

01:09:08   can come back and you make a movie that [TS]

01:09:11   speaks to the zeitgeist of what's going [TS]

01:09:13   on [TS]

01:09:13   yeah this was this was actually four [TS]

01:09:16   years after insurrection well I said [TS]

01:09:17   okay and interaction was only two years [TS]

01:09:19   after first contact but that's the I [TS]

01:09:21   think there was a perception that [TS]

01:09:22   insurrection was such a letdown that [TS]

01:09:24   they were going to take a break and they [TS]

01:09:25   were coming to come back with nemesis [TS]

01:09:27   and again hire a different director hire [TS]

01:09:29   a different screen writer i remember the [TS]

01:09:31   run-up to nemesis was like no no we [TS]

01:09:33   gotta John Logan he did gladiator that [TS]

01:09:34   was best picture this is going to be [TS]

01:09:36   awesome it's a new I you know a new page [TS]

01:09:39   for Star Trek and instead it was the [TS]

01:09:42   last page four star track and yeah it is [TS]

01:09:46   a yeah i don't know i mean i-i again I [TS]

01:09:49   don't feel the rage for it other than [TS]

01:09:51   show you said this on Twitter earlier [TS]

01:09:53   today before we started recording I [TS]

01:09:55   suppose if I was angry about nemesis for [TS]

01:09:57   anything it's that it killed all [TS]

01:09:59   prospects for Star Trek although at the [TS]

01:10:01   same time when I see Rick Berman's [TS]

01:10:03   credit for story on this I think nemesis [TS]

01:10:06   maybe i kinda am NOT angry nemesis [TS]

01:10:09   because nemesis the thing that got [TS]

01:10:11   paramount to say hey you know what Rick [TS]

01:10:14   Berman and all your people who worked on [TS]

01:10:15   all those TV shows it's over [TS]

01:10:18   you guys are you guys are done you kind [TS]

01:10:20   of bankrupt creatively you've been [TS]

01:10:22   working on this since next-generation [TS]

01:10:24   started in 1987 it's been a long time [TS]

01:10:27   we're done we're going to come back in a [TS]

01:10:30   few years with you know something like [TS]

01:10:32   JJ Abrams we're going to hire him and [TS]

01:10:33   his people and we're going to do [TS]

01:10:35   something completely fresh and I'd say [TS]

01:10:37   good call because I feel like the Rick [TS]

01:10:40   Berman era you know it went on too long [TS]

01:10:42   and you know he clung to his power over [TS]

01:10:46   that franchise for too long and it was [TS]

01:10:48   kinda in the tank so maybe it's maybe [TS]

01:10:50   it's all for the best that this thing [TS]

01:10:51   blew up the franchise for a few years I [TS]

01:10:53   I I don't know [TS]

01:10:55   yeah i mean i will take one issue with [TS]

01:10:57   but saying you know something fresh [TS]

01:10:58   because we went back two characters from [TS]

01:11:00   what it's true butBut what you just use [TS]

01:11:03   wood [TS]

01:11:03   just tell you that in the look and the [TS]

01:11:05   feel of a JJ Abrams Star Trek movie is [TS]

01:11:08   like so far advanced from what Star Trek [TS]

01:11:13   nemesis brings to the table [TS]

01:11:15   yeah but I mean filmmaking as it wasn't [TS]

01:11:18   like it came out like a year after [TS]

01:11:21   stirring you know that it things said [TS]

01:11:23   things have progressed seven years later [TS]

01:11:24   yeah but if Rick Berman had made another [TS]

01:11:28   star trek movie in 2005 do you thought [TS]

01:11:30   we want to progress by three words [TS]

01:11:32   because everything is going to continue [TS]

01:11:33   this downward trend a good idea i think [TS]

01:11:36   that he had nothing left in him and that [TS]

01:11:38   he didn't know it did or didn't want to [TS]

01:11:40   acknowledge it because that this this [TS]

01:11:42   just was just awful [TS]

01:11:44   whatever his creative instincts were and [TS]

01:11:46   getting Stewart Baird and whatever is [TS]

01:11:47   creative instincts were in the story [TS]

01:11:49   direction he was giving make it more [TS]

01:11:51   like Star Trek to I like whatever [TS]

01:11:53   whatever was happening there was all bad [TS]

01:11:55   and he went back to the well too many [TS]

01:11:57   times with with these ideas there it's a [TS]

01:12:00   common criticism of some star trek [TS]

01:12:02   voyager and enterprise episodes that [TS]

01:12:04   they would go back and recycle things [TS]

01:12:05   that you would have seen from the next [TS]

01:12:07   generation it just sort of updating [TS]

01:12:10   tweaking along the way and you'd be like [TS]

01:12:12   I kind of feel like I saw the story [TS]

01:12:13   already and you got some of that and he [TS]

01:12:16   started getting that in the end films [TS]

01:12:18   too and I just I don't think he he was [TS]

01:12:20   he was he was a good choice to continue [TS]

01:12:23   yeah you know whenever we talk about [TS]

01:12:25   Star Trek movies it always comes back to [TS]

01:12:26   affect the Star Trek's a TV franchise [TS]

01:12:28   and one of the reasons that the these [TS]

01:12:30   movies are bad some you know is because [TS]

01:12:32   they become too much like a TV episode [TS]

01:12:34   where they become you know too much like [TS]

01:12:37   you just kind of relying on the existing [TS]

01:12:38   relationships from TV and I think that's [TS]

01:12:41   always a problem with surgery it's kind [TS]

01:12:43   of a miracle that there are as many good [TS]

01:12:44   star trek movies as they are in some [TS]

01:12:46   ways because it really isn't a movie [TS]

01:12:48   franchise it's just not it's TV it's [TS]

01:12:50   about TV and that's why the CBS new show [TS]

01:12:53   in 2017 is going to be much more of a [TS]

01:12:56   make-or-break then the movie franchises [TS]

01:12:59   I think can't wait to get away all the [TS]

01:13:02   movies have such a fine fine line to [TS]

01:13:04   walk because like you said yeah you [TS]

01:13:05   can't be too much like it or you end up [TS]

01:13:07   with insurrection but if you're too far [TS]

01:13:09   away from the show in the characters [TS]

01:13:10   that we know that that's a failure of a [TS]

01:13:11   different kind of my god i know i guess [TS]

01:13:14   we should be glad that we do have [TS]

01:13:16   better actually good at all yeah and i [TS]

01:13:19   will just say also the the to go along [TS]

01:13:21   with what a both brain and jason said it [TS]

01:13:25   it is a TV show and kind of I guess you [TS]

01:13:29   could look at the downside of the [TS]

01:13:30   success of the film's being that there [TS]

01:13:31   hasn't been that TV show because it's [TS]

01:13:34   been seven years since the 2009 reboot [TS]

01:13:37   and we'll have had three movies by the [TS]

01:13:40   time the third one comes out and that [TS]

01:13:42   that's not very much Star Trek that's [TS]

01:13:44   the entire run of the next generation or [TS]

01:13:46   deep space nine when I wager so not not [TS]

01:13:49   not enterprise the original series sorry [TS]

01:13:50   guys but I did [TS]

01:13:52   that's a lot of Star Trek you could have [TS]

01:13:54   had a whole like series worth of stuff [TS]

01:13:57   and so by the time beyond comes out like [TS]

01:13:59   how many more of these JJ movies are [TS]

01:14:02   there going to be are they going to get [TS]

01:14:04   past four of them i don't know i hope [TS]

01:14:07   not [TS]

01:14:08   I it's just not what I love star trek [TS]

01:14:10   through what I've engage everyone movies [TS]

01:14:12   anymore [TS]

01:14:13   no this is this is getting far field but [TS]

01:14:16   I mean that that's the conversation that [TS]

01:14:18   seems to be going on at Paramount about [TS]

01:14:20   Star Trek now is maybe we should make it [TS]

01:14:22   more like star wars and the Marvel [TS]

01:14:24   movies where we open up as i said [TS]

01:14:26   earlier open up to the broader universe [TS]

01:14:28   and tell different stories in the star [TS]

01:14:30   trek universe which i think a lot of [TS]

01:14:32   fans could probably have told you that [TS]

01:14:34   20 years ago but they seem to maybe be [TS]

01:14:38   thinking in that direction now that the [TS]

01:14:39   Star Wars or Star Trek has value like [TS]

01:14:42   Star Wars and Marvel if they played like [TS]

01:14:43   that instead of it just being a TV show [TS]

01:14:46   replay or with JJ Abrams movies a replay [TS]

01:14:50   of a TV show replay [TS]

01:14:51   I don't know how you look at the [TS]

01:14:53   examples of the the marvel vs and disney [TS]

01:14:55   and and Lucasfilm and not think oh my [TS]

01:14:59   gosh we have this property that's been [TS]

01:15:00   spanning you know 50 years like we can't [TS]

01:15:04   get anything with a hugely devoted [TS]

01:15:05   fanbase like how can we not like [TS]

01:15:07   capitalize on that there's a quote and [TS]

01:15:09   again at their examples it's a it's a [TS]

01:15:11   it's a studio person so who knows [TS]

01:15:15   very ideas are probably bad but the idea [TS]

01:15:17   what they said was what what if there [TS]

01:15:19   are movies about Star Trek that are [TS]

01:15:21   about you know about the space marines [TS]

01:15:25   or about spies or things like that they [TS]

01:15:27   were just throwing out some dumb ideas [TS]

01:15:28   but you know I looked at that and [TS]

01:15:30   thought yeah what about that what if you [TS]

01:15:33   look for good stories you can tell [TS]

01:15:34   around the star trek universe instead of [TS]

01:15:37   just let's recycle some TV characters [TS]

01:15:40   maybe that would be better for for your [TS]

01:15:43   film franchise and where my audio a [TS]

01:15:45   little bit of a quote from joss whedon [TS]

01:15:47   when he was trying to do a celibacy [TS]

01:15:49   animated series i believe he said [TS]

01:15:51   something to be effective it was like I [TS]

01:15:53   had these bags of money and nobody would [TS]

01:15:54   take them from me yeah well if you've [TS]

01:15:57   seen any of the stuff that they were [TS]

01:15:59   planning for the buffy animated series [TS]

01:16:00   it would have been spectacularly good he [TS]

01:16:02   would have just it would have been great [TS]

01:16:04   and and you're right there like we just [TS]

01:16:06   didn't get it so it seems like nothing [TS]

01:16:08   said nothing says success like success [TS]

01:16:10   star wars and Marvel now people are [TS]

01:16:14   listening to this idea of like we've got [TS]

01:16:15   to get some franchise I mean what [TS]

01:16:16   they're gonna do the GI Joe micronauts [TS]

01:16:19   mom and ask franchise writing [TS]

01:16:22   everybody's like turning over the couch [TS]

01:16:24   cushions looking for franchise what [TS]

01:16:25   they're doing mask [TS]

01:16:27   yeah they're gonna do a linked all the [TS]

01:16:29   toys you know I can't mask micronauts [TS]

01:16:31   rom space Knight GI joe i think they're [TS]

01:16:34   all interconnected than they're talking [TS]

01:16:36   about there's a hole there are writers [TS]

01:16:37   room transformer it's like really crazy [TS]

01:16:39   it's gonna be terrible but the point is [TS]

01:16:42   everybody's looking for franchises and [TS]

01:16:44   and paramount is sitting there with a [TS]

01:16:45   franchise so what are you doing [TS]

01:16:48   paramount so well I mean I I think [TS]

01:16:50   there's a lot to learn from you know the [TS]

01:16:52   netflix Marvel movies and you know for [TS]

01:16:55   me I know guardians of the galaxy [TS]

01:16:58   probably has a lot of fans here but for [TS]

01:17:00   me like what I love science fiction for [TS]

01:17:03   is smaller stories that talk about like [TS]

01:17:07   a heinlein novel is good because it says [TS]

01:17:09   something really deep and important [TS]

01:17:11   about human nature right is not always [TS]

01:17:13   we've got to go save the galaxy and get [TS]

01:17:15   this crystal right so i would love like [TS]

01:17:19   my very favorite episodes of Star Trek [TS]

01:17:21   are always smaller stories that really [TS]

01:17:24   have their roots in what makes excellent [TS]

01:17:26   science fiction and [TS]

01:17:28   I just really hope that going forward [TS]

01:17:30   like okay we've got like we tend towards [TS]

01:17:33   extremes as humans and like the 2009 JJ [TS]

01:17:38   Abrams Star Trek like find the loud [TS]

01:17:41   exciting space adventure rooted in the [TS]

01:17:43   sixties we've got that can we maybe take [TS]

01:17:47   a step back and like look at the core of [TS]

01:17:50   what makes star trek awesome again [TS]

01:17:52   because I think I guess we're talking [TS]

01:17:54   about these two movies that don't work [TS]

01:17:56   there's a lot to really think about what [TS]

01:17:58   the future of Star Trek care it's time [TS]

01:18:00   for a reunion episode just like just one [TS]

01:18:02   man I I actually you know the you know [TS]

01:18:05   we talked about rage Joe the thing that [TS]

01:18:08   maybe angriest about this movie is this [TS]

01:18:10   is the last we see especially like [TS]

01:18:12   patrick stewart is Picard it's like come [TS]

01:18:14   on come on i would love to see he did he [TS]

01:18:17   did the that at the x-men movie where he [TS]

01:18:19   came back as Professor X again it makes [TS]

01:18:21   me very sad that this is probably the [TS]

01:18:23   last we see of Captain Picard and it's [TS]

01:18:27   not in service of anything good and it's [TS]

01:18:28   like patrick stewart you got him you got [TS]

01:18:30   Patrick Stewart oh what a it's just it [TS]

01:18:33   makes me sad yeah because I think it's [TS]

01:18:36   important that that meta level of [TS]

01:18:38   disappointment from beyond this film [TS]

01:18:39   that you know this is the end this is [TS]

01:18:41   the last time this this is the goodbye [TS]

01:18:44   this is how it ends yeah and hang but [TS]

01:18:46   with a yeah well you know what they say [TS]

01:18:50   all good things haha [TS]

01:18:53   Bravo that I can top that I just I just [TS]

01:18:56   have so sad I i wanted i want at you [TS]

01:19:00   through all the emotions here denial [TS]

01:19:02   like I'm not saying this to anger you [TS]

01:19:04   know depression you know it all ages [TS]

01:19:07   cycles through every time i watch it [TS]

01:19:08   because it's just like this is the end [TS]

01:19:11   of the the cast that I grew up with [TS]

01:19:13   their gone like no more from them like [TS]

01:19:16   paramount would not ask them back [TS]

01:19:18   I don't think necessarily would be a [TS]

01:19:19   good idea to have them back but like [TS]

01:19:21   it's definitely not happening so that [TS]

01:19:24   that is the final note there and you can [TS]

01:19:27   even be like oh well maybe you could say [TS]

01:19:29   like oh the last movie is really [TS]

01:19:31   insurrection because that was that was [TS]

01:19:32   the the time before things went off the [TS]

01:19:34   rails know that was a little off the [TS]

01:19:35   rails to and then it's like what was the [TS]

01:19:37   last really good star trek first contact [TS]

01:19:40   and it's like a that's yeah it's have so [TS]

01:19:43   much so much wrong with that kind of a [TS]

01:19:45   assessment of this is scott what do you [TS]

01:19:49   think so they said let's start the story [TS]

01:19:53   with Romulans and kill them all and will [TS]

01:19:56   introduce a stupid reasons for no [TS]

01:19:58   particular reason that just annoys me to [TS]

01:20:01   no end [TS]

01:20:02   yeah but at least there are some Romulan [TS]

01:20:04   warbirds at the end which look really [TS]

01:20:06   cool so I don't like anyone show blown [TS]

01:20:08   up in like two seconds to so that makes [TS]

01:20:10   me angry but but the cars gonna have a [TS]

01:20:13   drink with that the Romulan captain lady [TS]

01:20:15   later [TS]

01:20:16   that's right oh LOL the only drink one [TS]

01:20:20   is legal thing should be illegal [TS]

01:20:22   it just call it else yeah its tail in [TS]

01:20:24   romulus that's this is how it is [TS]

01:20:27   yeah well what do you say it's but it's [TS]

01:20:32   maybe maybe that CBS Star Trek series [TS]

01:20:33   will have a cameo from like old Captain [TS]

01:20:35   Picard or something wouldn't that be [TS]

01:20:36   nice [TS]

01:20:37   although actually i will say fans of the [TS]

01:20:40   next generation might be interested to [TS]

01:20:42   find out that in the comic book [TS]

01:20:43   adaptation of the j original JJ Abrams [TS]

01:20:47   Star Trek movie there is a lengthy a [TS]

01:20:50   lengthy like side story where they [TS]

01:20:53   explain how Spock I went back in time [TS]

01:20:58   and it's basically Picard and Georgie [TS]

01:21:02   help him get the spaceship that he [TS]

01:21:04   pilots back in time and I always thought [TS]

01:21:06   that was kind of great as like the next [TS]

01:21:08   generation tie into the JJ Abrams Star [TS]

01:21:10   Trek that card and Georgie in the future [TS]

01:21:12   and data i think is involved too because [TS]

01:21:14   it's just assumed data is back [TS]

01:21:16   we're not even talk about it no he has [TS]

01:21:18   five and they and and I always thought [TS]

01:21:21   that was really clever and I know they [TS]

01:21:22   could never do that in the movie but I [TS]

01:21:24   loved that in the in the comic book that [TS]

01:21:27   they made an effort to bring in the next [TS]

01:21:28   generation characters and tie them in [TS]

01:21:32   with spot going back in time because [TS]

01:21:33   they knew they knew that we cared about [TS]

01:21:36   those characters and they and they put [TS]

01:21:37   them in there i thought that was a nice [TS]

01:21:39   gesture but that's that so that's what I [TS]

01:21:41   hold on to Joe is like habit Spock I bet [TS]

01:21:45   he had some help from our friends in the [TS]

01:21:46   future and that's all that's all i got [TS]

01:21:48   was that stuff doesn't count right I [TS]

01:21:51   know it doesn't it doesn't count but [TS]

01:21:52   when i watch the star trek [TS]

01:21:54   James movie that's what i'm thinking is [TS]

01:21:55   Spock with the help of our friends went [TS]

01:21:59   back in time please accept my headcanon [TS]

01:22:02   Jason I will accept your Thank You Erica [TS]

01:22:06   that's what i was looking for all right [TS]

01:22:08   well you know there are better Star Trek [TS]

01:22:11   movies than these but these were the [TS]

01:22:16   ones we talked about so I want to I want [TS]

01:22:18   to wrap it up but thank my guests for [TS]

01:22:20   for soldiering on and watching these two [TS]

01:22:22   the the final two nails in the coffin of [TS]

01:22:25   Star Trek The Next Generation with me [TS]

01:22:28   Dan Morgan thank you for being here [TS]

01:22:30   among the many Star Trek movies Jason [TS]

01:22:33   these were two of these were indeed two [TS]

01:22:35   accounts to Erica and sign thank you i'm [TS]

01:22:38   just depressed now haha oh yeah yeah [TS]

01:22:43   Scott McNulty thank you i don't know how [TS]

01:22:46   old spot is 0 so I think there's been [TS]

01:22:50   many salads many spots they can't even [TS]

01:22:53   agree on a gender is just keep telling [TS]

01:22:54   you didn't hold with the the spot keeps [TS]

01:22:57   dying and they just by date a new cat [TS]

01:22:58   because they don't want to explain to [TS]

01:23:00   everybody i think that's it i think [TS]

01:23:01   that's exactly it [TS]

01:23:02   they just like the memory angry i'm out [TS]

01:23:04   about the whole night haha nice but Joe [TS]

01:23:08   Rosen still thank you by Cyrus a joke [TS]

01:23:16   that was it that was it the lipids let's [TS]

01:23:18   all raise our glass of chateaux Picard [TS]

01:23:20   to joe's memory and Brianna Wu thank you [TS]

01:23:23   as long as you remember star trek to [TS]

01:23:25   star trek is not really dead but yeah [TS]

01:23:27   that's fair enough fair enough i'm going [TS]

01:23:30   to clutch my star trek I may actually go [TS]

01:23:31   back and watch star trek to its star [TS]

01:23:33   trek first contact again just to just to [TS]

01:23:36   cleanse the palate a little bit [TS]

01:23:38   well thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

01:23:39   watching wee-wee again we do 80 episodes [TS]

01:23:42   in a row about Star Wars and I feel like [TS]

01:23:43   we've got to do some Star Trek because [TS]

01:23:45   this is the podcast people know it as we [TS]

01:23:47   talk about Star Wars Star Trek fan I [TS]

01:23:50   don't know how it happened [TS]

01:23:52   we talked about star's light so I'm glad [TS]

01:23:53   that we got to spend a little time [TS]

01:23:55   talking about Star Trek even if it was [TS]

01:23:56   bad star track [TS]

01:23:57   after all we get a lot of episodes about [TS]

01:23:59   that star wars movies him I hate all [TS]

01:24:02   right yeah so thanks to everybody for [TS]

01:24:05   listening and I hope you didn't watch [TS]

01:24:07   these movies or listen to this episode [TS]

01:24:08   affected we all apologize [TS]

01:24:11   we'll see you next week hopefully have [TS]

01:24:13   something that is not as terrible as [TS]

01:24:15   these students [TS]

01:24:27   [Music] [TS]