The Incomparable

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00:00:20 ◼   ► code smell the entire purple number 291 [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► March 2060 [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► incomparable podcast i convened this [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► edition of our book club book club is [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► back [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► yeah and we read to recently published [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► in the last year novels of science [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► fictional description and origin it is [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► we're going to be talking about Aurora [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► by Kim Stanley Robinson and Luna new [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► moon by ian MacDonald and joining me to [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► discuss these two novels are a wonderful [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► panel of four people who have read at [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► least as far in all both of these novels [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► as they could until it broke them and [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► then possibly can press away [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► it happens allene sims Welcome Table [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► club i scammed [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► yeah you were skimming that's ok that's [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► ok i was i was will this will come up in [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► the water we reading segment at the end [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► but I was broken by a book that is not [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► one of these two books and Scott was [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► very kind in our slack chat and said [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► Jason you don't have to keep reading [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► very kind and so I didn't listen I'm [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► gonna do a nebula award in which case [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► I'm gonna have to deal with that was the [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► question is now I might have to go back [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► to it because I got nominated for a [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► nebula work and we will get there Scotty [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► melty of course he reads everything hi [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► Scott [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► hello you're not a scammer I am NOT a [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► skimmer i read these books many months [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► ago though so it may seem like a skim [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► yeah yeah I read them I finished them [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► about a month ago so I to perhaps have [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► have don't like no memory of them but [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► that's ok we will remember as we go glen [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► Fleischman is also here [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► hello hello I gave these books intensive [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► attention good at least one of us good [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► and Erica and sign also read did the [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► reading you did the reading right i did [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► there was I did a little bit of skimming [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► at the end of one of them but mostly I [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► was I was fully paying attention ish so [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► I against weekend that not other so [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► iíve read I've read four novels in the [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► last month and and I know it's madness [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► but what I what I found is iíve [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► actually read three all the way through [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► while trying to get through that fourth [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► and I told my wife is the other day that [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► you know when I when I really struggling [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► to get through a book i probably should [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► recognize that it's not me it's the book [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► because then I switch [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► to a different book and and I switch to [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► these two books in fact knowing that I i [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► was gonna do this podcast and I i read [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► through them very quickly and that other [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► book i still haven't finished I'm so [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► like fifty percent of the way through it [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► so i think that i think that is [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► interesting that you can tell whether a [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► book is working for you because either [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► pulls you along and you've got to read [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► the more of the book you're like oh man [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► I guess that's the book i'm reading i [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► guess i need to read more than when I [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► tell Jason might be on a podcast about [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► that and sound familiar [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► I left Achilles start alphabetically [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► because we have no other real way to [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► order these books were going to talk [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► about Aurora by kids [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► Kim Stanley Robinson Kim Stanley [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► Robinson is famous for writing [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► especially the Mars trilogy red mars [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► green Mars blue Mars he got a lot of [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► nominations for awards and won the [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► nebula award for 2312 a previous novel [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► that we discussed in a previous book [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► club and I hated that book as did other [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► people like Glenn I hated that but [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► number two already essay about how I [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► thought I was losing my mind reading [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► that book because I love Kim Stanley [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► Robinson work very much read the whole [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► Mars trilogy because short stories got [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► published books on the shelf and I [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► picked it up and I was mystified by its [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► but I did agree to read at work very [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► curious me too me too so aurora aurora [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► is a we're gonna we're gonna fire off [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► the spoiler horn in a moment and you and [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► you can look at the show notes if you [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► want to know or skip to the next chapter [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► or something if you want to skip to the [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► next book if you haven't read or and no [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► one here is talking about Aurora in [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► short is about a Generation ship it's [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► about a spaceship that is traveling from [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► Earth to a planet around or a couple of [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► planets as possible destinations around [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► the start how city they have been [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► they've been traveling for a hundred [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► sixty years and seven generations and [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► they're getting close to their [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► destination so it's the story of the [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► kind of end of the journey ? of the [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► Generation ship that has reached this at [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► this far-off solar system that they may [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► colonize and then the fun begins [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► so that's the story [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► fun let's fire off the spoiler horn now [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► spoiler alert fun does not happen and [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► then the fun ends rapidly because well [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► no there's there's there's fun because [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► there's a now I'm I what can I start [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► because I wipe I have something positive [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► to say and ready to get out [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► listen let's get that letter to be [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► unpleasant fun and positive positivity [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► out of the way early [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► um I and I will I will do this without [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► spoiling the other book too but I [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► started reading them both at the same [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► time kind of i would read what kind of a [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► bit of one and then chapter the other [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► and then just go back and forth and at [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► first [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► aurora was the one that I wanted to go [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► back to and continue reading because [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► you're it's the beginning of a quest [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► basically you know it's a space dirty so [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► yeah I was interested in that aspect of [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► it and I liked at first I like the way [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► the book was doing the world building [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► because it's you know laying out the [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► daily routine on a generational [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► spaceship establishing all the inherent [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► risks and challenges to that kind of [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► undertaking at that time I didn't [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► realize that that is all the book was so [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► so I was pretty happy with it at first [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► and i was finding myself dreading going [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► back to the other book when I would go [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► back and forth and then that changed but [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► i'll let somebody else come first before [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► i start dumping on it [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► yeah I learned a lot about myself and [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► the process of writing this good [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► Wow journey of self-discovery is one [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► year sometimes you have to go to another [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► solar system [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► what about yourself so what i learned i [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► think is that hard science books are not [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► for me [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► no wonder for us and know that that's [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► not you haven't told that's not what i [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► learned and that little tell you want to [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► learn really tired yeah yeah yeah you [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► should serve first and then going to [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► explain why why I'm not true yeah and so [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► this is something I should have probably [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► known about myself doing some of the [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► things i do like having a podcast where [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► I interview people and you know talking [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► about firefly where I'm like it's not [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► about the fact that there's like Cowboys [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► in space it's about the people in their [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► relationship i like learning about [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► people and this is not the book where [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► you learn about people [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► no this is a book where lean skimmed [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► over a lot of statistically things that [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► she didn't care about so the parts of [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► the book that kind of concentrated on [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► you know in the beginning you know Freya [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► goes on this journey wandering the ship [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► i liked those parts i liked learning [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► about the people and how this all fits [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► together in the world building i liked [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► that a lot of shippers got modules that [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► are based on different eco eco systems [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► different biomes basically with [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► different cultures and that's a way they [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► maintain not only the diversity of like [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► the plants and animals that are going to [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► use to colonize but also the cultures of [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► Earth sort of as they go and then she [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► takes a oh she wanders through the ship [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► and we see the whole ship as a part of [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► my journey right yeah and I loved that [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► and then I loved the conceit you know [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► I'm in the beginning we learned that our [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► narrator is the computer computer system [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► i guess and i thought that was really [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► cool and we kind of warned how the [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► computer learned how to tell stories and [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► I was like oh this is really really [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► interesting i liked that a lot [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► and then I skimmed the last fifty [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► percent well I think I i think it would [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► be accurate to say that the novel takes [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► a u-turn in the middle and we will get [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► there glendy of it an opening uh no I [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► don't want to contradict anything [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► italian said I just want at all don't [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► contractor was not a hard science [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► fiction novel but not all exactly thanks [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► for what I wanted I could distinguish [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► this distinction between this which I [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► called like hard radiation of space and [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► vacuum science where you're just [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► completely exposed that any shielding of [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► any kind to the onslaught of endless [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► bits of trivia information and ideas [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► which 2312 have to say was even worse in [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► that regard you know there was a [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► stronger characterizations in 2312 i [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► would say then there's a lot more [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► dialogue because they were awful people [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► they were awful people it but it was [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► full of like just lists of things it was [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► his Moby Dick this book I found a very [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► interesting exercise and I want to talk [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► about I want some help actually teasing [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► apart aspects of X I'm still trying to [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► figure out sort of what overlapping [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► areas for being told [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► but I [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► it was at some level I feel like it was [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► a perfection of 2012 that it was it was [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► like reworking that book into something [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► that people more people might find [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► readable but the same thing he just took [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► away all that shielding like the whole [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► bit about you know the book is full of [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► details about being exposed to radiation [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► and all that you know random particles [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► in space and so forth and I feel like [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► this is that kind of heart it's like no [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► no you have to first get Eileen first to [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► go back to school and get two PhDs damn [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► come back to read this book and you'll [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► be fine until then had that warning [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► about on the inside discovery requires [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► blue having advanced physics degree I i [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► agree that with Glenn that it's it's not [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► so much that it was you know it wasn't [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► certainly wasn't poorly written [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► I just based on those first couple [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► chapters I think I expected that [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► description stuff would happen in the [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► first couple chapters and then we would [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► get on with the space adventuring and [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► learning to love or at least like some [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► of the characters and and I didn't [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► really care all that much for the part [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► with Freya going on her journey but at [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► least it was something what's kind of [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► happening with a person but the [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► characters to meet the characters and [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► what they were doing felt almost [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► entirely incidental to the world that [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► was created and the science of any and [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► you know sometimes on the other hand you [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► have a book that's so tunnel vision [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► focused on the characters in the plot [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► that you end up with giant gaping holes [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► in the world you can't see how anything [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► beyond those few characters in their [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► story work and I think this book is [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► 100-percent the opposite of that it's so [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► totally focused on the science of the [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► journey and the mathematics of space and [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► planetary bodies and radiation that it [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► leaves those holes their emotional holes [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► where I expected the characters and the [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► story to be but that's that's a taste [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► thing so i'm i'm willing to cut book [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► slack when they forget the world [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► building is if they're focusing on the [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► characters too much I I you know some [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► people don't feel that way so if you're [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► one of those people that hates that [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► maybe you prefer the opposite and I was [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► like this book float a theory that just [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► came to me after we discuss this way is [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► here's a theory that were supposed to [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► perceive the book like you read through [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► the whole thing and then you're supposed [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► to perceive the book like a hole where [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► you realize the entire book is being [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► written by the AI including the part [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► before [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► yeah is writing it and the part after [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► the a is ostensibly destroyed they were [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► supposed to press [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► leave it as readers when we've completed [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► and go ah this entire thing is a [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► constructed narrative by the AI and the [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► AI is not a reliable narrator [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► necessarily despite the amount of detail [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► because it doesn't know how to tell the [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► story but at the point at which it is [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► ostensibly destroyed [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► it's not and we're reading a [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► continuation where it's become a better [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► storyteller but the depersonalization [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► the lack of personality the lack of [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► characters is a function of the AIS [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► inability to actually tell a story that [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► we find satisfying that's a [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► meta-narrative I'll why I don't have guy [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► except that but it's a fascinating [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► theory i don't think i won't quite that [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► deep i just i thought it was a perfect [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► conceit that it was the computer that [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► was telling the story and sort of [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► learning how to be more human as it went [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► because i felt like it was computer that [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► didn't understand what it means to be [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► human that was telling me the story but [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► you can tell the story before it starts [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► telling the story we reported the book [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► in which starting story and we're [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► putting the book when ostensibly ends my [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► contention is maybe ksr was trying to [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► tell us that there is no point before it [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► tells a story or point at which it's [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► it's dead [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► I don't know it so it's our reading and [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► I don't know if it's if he tries to be [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► very clever and that might be the [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► cleverness that we're supposed to see or [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► not or not it still has to work as a [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► story even if you're telling a [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► meta-narrative the stories to us to work [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► you can't just be satisfied because [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► there's some kind of overriding [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► structure that we're supposed to love [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► you know it's also a toast or somebody [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► could be i'm just not that somebody not [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► Scott not somebody tell me no mae [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► somebody so I picked both of these books [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► because i really liked both of them are [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► so spoiler alert i enjoyed this so [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► greatly I so part of the reason i think [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► that he wrote this book it and that [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► makes it so interesting to me is that he [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► has long been on the record that [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► thinking that generation ships won't [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► work [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► interstellar travel is very difficult [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► and that we should probably just stay on [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► earth because it seems like a giant [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► waste of effort to send humans off two [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► planets where God knows what will happen [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► and that we're doomed to fail and that's [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► what this book is all about right it's [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► an interesting story in which are or not [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► so interested depending on here your [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► your your opinion admission this is [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► great [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► pinnacle of human achievement utterly [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► and completely fails and comes back to a [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► world that basically rejects their [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► failure because they are like why the [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► hell did you come all the way back when [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► we sent you after 300 yes good question [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► exactly I know Jason that's one of your [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► biggest problems with the book is that [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► you think they could have tried [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► something else [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► yup but I feel like that speaks to human [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► nature and that you kind of freaked out [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► when you seem to have this instrumental [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► problem and the solution which is also [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► nearly insurmountable but you know is [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► solvable because you did in fact travel [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► that far already is to go back where you [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► came from where you know there's a safe [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► place for you to go even though the [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► journey will be very difficult and [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► that's kinda Freya trying to be like her [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► mother who was able to get them you know [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► her whole point was to get them the last [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► leg of the trip to their home which of [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► course tries to kill them all [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► yeah it does kill some of them and so [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► she has the not a reincarnation but [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► trying to finish her mother's mission in [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► getting the rest of them back to an [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► actual home that will support them and [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► then when they get there obviously it's [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► not so great and then I also think it's [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► interesting this whole day i think is [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► very interesting about learning how to [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► do metaphors i also think it's he plays [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► with the Generation ship trope about you [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► know people live on for so long so they [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► forget about things like there are [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► microphones and cameras everywhere so [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► the ship knows everything that they're [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► doing even though they don't think that [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► does and so there are people who are [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► like sneaking around seemingly trying to [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► hide from the ship the ship is watching [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► the entire time and it is really care [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► about what it's just what they're doing [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► so I just found it very interesting i [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► can't i do understand if you're looking [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► for deep characterization and [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► relationships [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► this is not the book for you i enjoyed [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► those parts to I just kind of wanted [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► more of those unless of the pages and [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► pages and pages of monologue [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► I don't know a computer monologue could [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► hear Donald yeah like it was all those [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► things Scott were all really really [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► interesting and then there are pages and [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► pages of stuff that could have been [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► condensed into three sentences and I [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► would've been just as happy [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► but that's the whole point uh I think [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► that what he's trying to do whether it's [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► successful or not ready to show you that [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► this computer is generating at least [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► part of this story and this is that so [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► it's not enjoyable to read parts of [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► stories that are written by the computer [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► especially as it's trying to learn how [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► to tell a story right now that is of [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► course when you write it down if the [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► paper you think maybe you should write a [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► book in which large portions of it are [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► unreadable exactly in 2312 maybe you [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► should write a book where the main [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► character is absolutely reprehensible [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► profits both of those books work from he [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► so what do I know [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► yeah i agree that it's it's it was it [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► was well written that the stuff that was [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► there and the ideas were cool like that [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► was that was the thing that you know if [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► somebody just told me about this book i [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► think i would've been like yeah that [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► sounds awesome but it was it was the [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► pages and pages like like a lien said [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► and the fact that even when it wasn't [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► the pages of sciency stuff even when [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► they were talking about the people and [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► what was happening [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► it really felt like I feel like reading [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► a history textbook and I've it was like [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► it would flip back and forth between [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► reading history textbook in a science [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► textbook and it in a mathematical [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► textbook actually and I never really [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► liked any of those things so that was [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► those where it fell down for me [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► let's take a break for me to tell you [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► about one of our sponsors it is IT pro [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► TV if you've got a career plan you want [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► to set in motion maybe you're looking to [TS]

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00:17:29 ◼   ► or maybe you're already working in the [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► field but certificates and credentials [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► are key point in getting a job or [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► promotion and IT pro TVs mission is [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► education through engagement they've got [TS]

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00:17:46 ◼   ► certification they got more than a [TS]

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00:18:00 ◼   ► the fourth generation Apple TV so you [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► can learn on the go or sitting on your [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► couch watching on TV [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► well however you want it you can get the [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► information you seek on IT pro TV course [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► topics [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► these are great course topics [TS]

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00:18:16 ◼   ► related skills there's mac integration [TS]

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00:18:22 ◼   ► technical coordinator amazon web [TS]

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00:18:26 ◼   ► certification Google Apps for work [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► administrator virtualization [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► cryptography a whole lot more all the [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► courses are transcribed so you can watch [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► watch from start to finish or jump to [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► just the part that you're looking for [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► and there's one low monthly subscription [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► price and a no-hassle cancellation [TS]

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00:18:42 ◼   ► enrolled in a certification or technical [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► degree program this is a great [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► supplement so you can learn at your own [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► pace and track your progress and it's [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► much cheaper than going to a bootcamp [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► you're working IT professional this is [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► the ongoing resource you need to keep [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► your skills current there's corporate [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► group pricing also available clients of [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► IT pro TV include harvard-mit UCSD [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► Stanford and more so check out IT pro [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► dot TV / smell to upgrade your brain [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► with the most popular IT certification [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► and normally premium subscriptions are [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► about fifty seven dollars a month or 570 [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► dollars a year but there is a special [TS]

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00:19:17 ◼   ► days when you sign up using code smell [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► to check out the courses the live stream [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► and a whole lot more [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► you also get thirty percent off the [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► lifetime of your account IT pro TV so [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► then you'll spend less than forty [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► dollars a month for 399 for an entire [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► year and mark your calendar the ccnp [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► security courses will stream live for [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► the very first time beginning of march [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► 21st IT pro TV / Nell use code smell [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► try it free for seven days and safe [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► thirty percent off for the lifetime of [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► your account thank you to IT pro TV for [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► sponsoring being comfortable this is the [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► definition of a picturesque story and I [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► you know this is something I back in [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► high school when someone is like what [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► its picturesque we will talk about this [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► as opposed to narrative in a picturesque [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► is when your thing happens thing happens [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► thing happens thing happens and the end [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► and it's a huge critique of criticism of [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► a novel when its picturesque because it [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► means there's no arc there's no [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► development there's no you know multiple [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► storylines that converge or whatever and [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► I feel like at some level [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► this has so many different narrative [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► ideas going on that it but it winds up [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► being picker asking it's like they go [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► out they go to a planet things happen [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► the planet decided at work they come [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► back and they're a journey occurs but [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► there's any development occurred we see [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► any advancement the characters that we [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► learned something [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► ostensibly were supposed to come away [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► the [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► going like wow generation ships are bad [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► and most diverse is either totally dead [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► in a way we can do anything with or it's [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► already full of life that we can't do [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► anything with so stay at home folks and [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► fix the earth you know and that's a [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► that's a kind of heavy-handed you know [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► message but I just feel like it didn't [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► it wasn't a drift it's just it was I [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► mean within the story we have picaresque [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► because she's going from place to place [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► to place with no extensible reason we [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► have a picturesque within a picturesque [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► as well I you know I i we said before I [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► think this is a better book than his [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► last book i think one of the reasons is [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► that the main the main character Freya [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► is a is not as unlikable as the main [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► characters in 2012 but i don't actually [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► like her i have a lot of problems with [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► her i think i think one of the [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► fascinating I think this book is [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► fascinating [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► I i enjoyed reading it it frustrated me [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► at every turn and yet it was it was more [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► like me saying you know to the to the [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► author basically we know why did you [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► make this decision [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► did you know you were making this [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► decision are you doing this to mess with [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► me is that what you're doing because [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► let's let's take them off the most [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► interesting character in this book is [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► phrase mother who dies and the entire [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► rest of the book really a sort of afraid [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► of failing to live up to her mother [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► that's an interesting creative decision [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► right and I i think there's a civil war [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► at one point because people are arguing [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► when they go to when they go to a study [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► to find that there is this first planet [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► it's brutal there's wind I i really like [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► that i like his eyes just almost [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► despondency about we know he's basically [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► arguing there aren't habitable planets [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► out there especially not in a small [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► sample size near our solar system [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► you're not going to find habitable [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► planets you're gonna think they're in a [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► habitable zone you're going to go there [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► you're going to find that there are [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► reasons why you can't live there so [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► there's the windy planet it's cold it's [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► windy and then it turns out they're [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► basically prion there that kill [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► everybody it's not life per se but it's [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► a thing that is contaminated [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► it's a different biosystem it kills them [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► and then the other alternative is [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► something that's basically like Mars [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► it's cold and miserable and some people [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► want to go there and they send them [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► there we never hear from them again the [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► assumption is that they just all died [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► so they have the Civil War about what to [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► do whether it's to colonize the the [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► mars-like place or go on to another star [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► system that's further off or turn around [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► and go back to earth and and the poor [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► one of the problems I had and again I [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► don't think this was intentional on the [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► on the writers part is i sided with the [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► people who are main characters opposed [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► the entire time i thought the main [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► characters were completely wrong and [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► that their arguments were stupid and [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► that was a problem because basically [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► that place me against it's me against [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► the book because my and again it's smart [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► and it's interesting in the sense that [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► he's basically saying what if the people [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► you send that the descendants of the [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► people you send out on a Generation ship [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► don't want to be there that's [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► essentially what this this book is is [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► they don't want to be there they didn't [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► sign up for this and they just want to [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► go back to earth and my thought was yep [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► guys you know there's a lot of people on [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► earth you're you're already out among [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► the stars just keep going maybe you'll [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► find something and and there's a there's [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► a passage that i thought was really [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► interesting where they say they sent out [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► a bunch of these generation ships for [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► all we know everybody on all of them [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► died and if you're sitting back on earth [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► your thought is well you know we tried [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► but if you're on one of the ships feel [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► like I don't wanna die i wanna i want to [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► live I want to find a place to live so [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► this is what you get is is is this [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► response it just bugs me because i don't [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► agree with that i felt like they should [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► have either tried to they're all that [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► way they should either keep going or [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► they should try their hand at something [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► but to just come back to earth and [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► filled it felt like such a letdown and [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► then the part where we're really [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► bothered me was that when they like then [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► they watch some TV and discover that [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► there's suspension technology has been [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► invented which is just a cheat to get [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► the characters we've been following back [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► to earth themselves instead of it being [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► their descendants and that felt like a [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► like just a ripoff [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► let me hit that's the point to this the [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► decision point comes almost a little [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► middle of the book was exactly halfway [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► through the u-turn [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► yeah and i'm reading a book and I'll [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► tell you like to start with the book and [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► it's got one narrative agent right it's [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► got your sort of a sort of a super [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► observer it's focused on devi and as a [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► team and friday and so you sort of know [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► what's going on the right and and then [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► it shifts [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► you see the ship takes over the aeration [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► because daddy's gonna die and it's you [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► know try to graph to us the ship takes [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► over the narration and I tell you like [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► what got me through the first half of [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► this book was I had this anticipation i [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► felt he built a really good anticipation [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► that something was going to happen [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► they're gonna arrive at the planet [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► something happened so its building [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► building building the narrative changes [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► and that's kind of interesting i like [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► seeing the aisource boot up its ability [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► to tell a story and fail and retry and [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► devi dies all you know Moses never sees [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► the promised land and so forth [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► it's all great and it builds and builds [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► building and then here's the part that I [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► just going to say I adored the pivot [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► point in the book and i'm looking on the [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► kindle it's exactly forty-eight percent [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► rate almost right halfway about it says [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► you know the ship is making this whole [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► statement about all the Civil War that's [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► happening when everyone is not like I [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► like that I like that at some point in [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► the civil war that the AI basically says [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► alright everybody go to neutral corners [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► I'm in charge now I'm not gonna let [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► yourselves [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► yeah ships decided to intervene which is [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► to say if so factor we intervened it [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► shifts from a third-person to a second [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► person or a first-person plural [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► yeah at that moment ah we've hit he's [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► brilliantly build up all this tension [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► and now we're in the story the first [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► fifty percent was prolonged what's gonna [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► happen and I didn't feel it paid off [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► thats that was my disappointment [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► actually yeah it was kind of like we we [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► got the climax in the middle of the book [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► and then it was falling action from [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► there on in yeah yeah i think part of [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► part of it is my disappointment was not [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► knowing what to expect from this book [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► you know I am a sucker for stories where [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► people are far away and under pressure [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► and are trying to find a way to live on [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► you know to explore and to live on a new [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► world and so when they went down to the [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► Windy planet and I thought oh well this [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► could be bad but maybe you know is this [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► the rest of the book it turns out know [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► everybody dies 641 and and it's and it's [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► sad and all that night I go I get what [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► he's trying to do and so I I'm you know [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► my perception of the rest of the book [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► was colored by that oh no it's not gonna [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► be about what happens when they get [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► there and they're all on their own and [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► they stay there these kind of grizzled [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► you know people from this breaking down [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► technology on the spaceship and that now [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► they have to find make their way on a [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► planet again and they never lived on a [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► planet before and I thought well that [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► might be an interesting book but that's [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► not this book that this book goes back [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► up and you know I'd i really like the [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► the [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► hey I being the sheriff and saying look [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► I'm not in charge but I'm not gonna let [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► you hurt each other [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► you're gonna have to behave and and that [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► was good in the end though [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► basically you know they turn around they [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► leave the people behind on the on the [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► Mars analog they turn around and they [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► will they invented technology that [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► they've received by radio basically by [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► laser from Earth that lets them live in [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► suspended animation and go all the way [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► back without having to you know generate [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► new characters which you know it was [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► like that was a little bit of a cheat [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► because there's a lot of cheap it was a [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► good table okay alright giant sheet just [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► because yeah we had we had gotten to not [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► going to say like these characters but [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► we've gotten to know these characters [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► and I mean I guess if he wouldn't have [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► pulled this cheat and they would have [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► just been other people barely scraping [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► by to survive until they get back to [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► earth it would have been even worse [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► because then I would have had absolutely [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► nobody to look at the story through so I [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► don't six of one half dozen of the other [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► there are Generation ship books that do [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► that pull off or read or [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► multi-generation books that go over [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► three empires or travels or whatever in [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► their ways to do it I kind of thought he [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► was going to hand it off i thought [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► there's we pivot point and they spend [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► you know what generation orbit things [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► would happen maybe i don't know i don't [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► know exactly what's gonna happen at that [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► point it didn't seem to me like they go [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► back because that seems ridiculous so [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► that shows what I know but I did think [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► there are ways where you can have you [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► know sort of a beautiful continuity as [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► opposed to saying OK and now suspended [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► animation i did like there was a great [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► an analogy that comes at some point [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► where i forget which character is talks [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► about it being a child abuse that [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► actually multi-generation ships are are [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► like it's like a you know it's what [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► kidnapping and stealing from your use [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► the word it was klepto something was [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► stealing from future generations and [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► childhood and like that's all rather [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► harsh like no it is because you send [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► people off to have stolen all their [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► children's futures and made the [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► decisions to do that before they leave [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► him like that is actually very powerful [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► argument against multi-generation ships [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► that people can't consent before they're [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► born being born like that but i think [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► part of this argument is too [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► we are all born [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► that we're all born without concerning [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► born and you know never asked and the [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► suspension parts they didn't I didn't [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► think of it as cheat only because i have [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► I think of it as piling onto the failure [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► of the Generation ship because if they [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► had just waited three hundred years [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► their exploration would have been much [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► easier because they could have been in [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► this match and parts together and don't [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► come back and this i have been for a [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► long time thinking about them for [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► someone already wrote a short story but [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► a short story in which a giant [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► Generation ship takes forever to get to [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► a planet and they go around the planet [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► and they get a mysterious transmission [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► from the planet wishes humans who beat [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► them there because of advances in [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► technology and they just got there [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► faster than the generation ships I've [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► read that their entire I'm sure it's [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► been written already so their entire [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► mission is a fraud basically write you a [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► complete this scott micronauts issue [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► number one has that same plot little bit [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► but there's a short story in which a [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► Generation ship is everyone is in [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► cryogenic storage they're traveling the [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► captain has to wake up from time to time [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► and someone should set them with faster [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► light weapons which earth didn't exist [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► believe existed and the captain cleverly [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► beats them off and then says okay we're [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► turning back because we're going at [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► sublight speeds apparently someone [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► else's developed FTL so we're gonna go [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► back and fix it then go back out wanted [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► to talk about Freya just a little bit [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► out because i had and i think it was [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► maybe that and the AI learning how to [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► tell a story piece I don't know but like [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► in the beginning of the book we are [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► introduced to Freya and it's like oh [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► this is a really cute six-year-old and [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► her stuff that she's like not six and I [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► felt like that was really sprung on me [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► because it's like oh she's 14 and it [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► runs until you just said that that the [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► eighth i know what your age was it when [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► she was 14 but i forgot that they left [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► us forward [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► I mean that the ex sorry but I didn't [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► get that till just now yeah I think they [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► were clues pretty early because I I [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► almost don't remember a time where I [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► didn't recognize that she was a you know [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► sort of a young personal older person's [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► body while they were talking about how [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► much bigger she was then everybody and I [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► was like okay you know it i I've worked [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► with some big kids i used to work in [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► preschools so I've worked with some some [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► three year olds who could be mistaken [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► for like six year old [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► this is a thing that I have experience [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► with I'm sure that colored that but and [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► I I thought it was kind of like a weird [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► thing where it's like six and then [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► ok maybe she's like 12 and then we went [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► forward a little bit and she's 14 and so [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► she's like what an eight-year-old to in [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► a 14 year olds body who they send off to [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► wander around the ship and I mean that [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► was all really odd to me and then she [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► jumps from being like this this very [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► childlike teenager to being a leader of [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► the ship like like the eggs like yeah [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► she's she's respected and a leader and [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► blah blah but it's never shown we're [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► told that she is her behavior doesn't [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► see it doesn't indicate that she would [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► be because she has these like temper [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► tantrums all the time right [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► I mean during the Civil War she has a [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► she is there's there's a scene where [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► there's like this it's like oh well [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► we've got a problem what is it and she [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► basically just screams and I thought [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► really [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► yes is this Kari that's the character [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► you've got all right you know again I [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► think he may be delights in having a [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► character that is not particularly [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► likeable but she you know III again [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► again fascinating to have that moment of [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► like as a reader judging the main [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► character in single boy you're not as [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► good as your mom was right but that was [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► me i was doing that although I was it [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► was it's like it's not what you know [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► it's not what you know or what you can [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► do it's not even who you know it's who [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► you're related to that's the only thing [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► she has going for her then there's the [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► jokey character that they introduces a [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► mathematical genius and kind of an [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► oddball Marco this character is going to [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► be very important to develop the plot 0 [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► knots well maybe later with the orbital [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► mechanics sort of but they don't let you [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► know there's a I thought they were going [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► to do this thing [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► there's a famous sci-fi story remember [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► who wrote it was decades ago I was [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► probably before i was born but in which [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► I earth sends out these astronauts again [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► like faster-than-light or sublight speed [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► to Alpha Centauri to you know do some [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► probing they're going off and the [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► farther they get away from Earth the [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► sort of scarier they become they become [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► more intelligent and that was apparently [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► the hidden goal and they wind up like [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► sending a beam back to earth and disrupt [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► society and come back like God's it's [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► really fascinating story the part of the [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► Ark is the [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► further away they go them they they just [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► start doing all this advanced math this [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► and Batgirl numbers are doing all this [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► nonsense i thought oh we're gonna have a [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► little not magical realism but it's [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► going to be [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► ah ok maybe it's an homage to that or [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► jokey is gonna be part of a generation [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► and this whole idea that the ship [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► everyone's getting sort of stupider [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► because they have bad nutrition over [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► time they messed something up and so [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► Fraya is you know somehow [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► developmentally disabled maybe you're [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► not really because she's not not smart [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► just can't do math and it's confusing [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► and no joke he is kind of a savant and [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► anyway so it was kind of back and forth [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► in and then his work his importance is [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► never realized and we're never really [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► deal with the impact of that whole thing [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► like that they're all bromide blackacre [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► something that kids brains out of [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► bromide in it you're like this is an [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► interesting exploration but doesn't play [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► out in the characters that the [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► characters are less sophisticated we're [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► not really seeing that so much we're [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► seeing a repeat of previous flights on [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► the ship so that's one that can sing too [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► well it was better than the last one how [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► do people feel about the fact that the [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► ship didn't make it i actually had a [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► little bit of that a of rocks i spoil [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► and spoil monument valley by the moment [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► on your Valley where you sort of there's [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► a pain related to a seemingly an object [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► that has life and I thought well yeah [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► has to make it that's how these novels [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► work and say it doesn't and then you [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► have what I felt like it was sort of a [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► it was a dissolved three-story after [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► that so i wasn't sure you know they're [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► on earth and it's sort of the end of the [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► story and it's not only played on a very [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► odd fashion [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► well they're terrorists they're [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► terraforming earth at the end right so [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► that's right yeah that's true true i did [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► feel for the ship but whereas in the [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► most books and properties like this I [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► feel for the ship in part for myself and [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► in part for the characters that are also [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► feeling for the ship in this case I [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► didn't care what the characters thought [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► at all about the ship [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► nope though I did feel bad myself that [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► was the one moment of real emotion i [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► think that I that I truly felt at any [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► point just because you know here's this [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► the ship who is basically a character [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► possibly the character who has has done [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► all of this stuff to make it possible [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► and no it's really selfless thing that [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► that she it has done in [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► order to make life possible for all of [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► these all these little creatures so I [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► was I was I was sad for myself and I was [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► also a little bit annoyed just on behalf [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► of the fact that i had read through all [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► of this and not only did they not you [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► know get to colonize something someplace [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► else but this this ship didn't even get [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► to make it all the way through and I [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► didn't get to see any kind of a happy [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► ending that I cared about I was really [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► hoping that the ship would just go into [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► orbit and there you know maybe people [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► would just go and live on the ship but [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► be able to be replenished from stocks [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► are you don't think surfing is have a [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► happy ending [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► no no I do not bodysurfing it was also [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► very much the end of thumb of a green [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► Mars I think isn't it or blue marks was [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► the third book in the series [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► some people are on Mars and Mars is very [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► earth-like now they're on a beach and [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► there's even a bit in that trilogy in [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► which marshalls go back to earth and [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► they sort of deal with returning to [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► Earth and people have existential life [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► failure which they just stop living for [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► no reason that sort of in this book too [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► so I feel like he took some ideas and [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► and it wasn't part of the same universe [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► it's clearly not really the same [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► universe as the DeMars trilogy [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► I don't know it's a I i'm glad i read it [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► Scott I'm glad to read it I'm glad you [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► read it to claim haha well redeemed I [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► mean I need a little Redemption from [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► 2312 and i just love his work so much [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► and he's breaking it so hard for me to [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► love his work [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► I still like it so I'm also glad you [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► read it's got you know that I'm sorry [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► that you read it now i i'm i'm kinda [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► with Glenn where I appreciated things [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► about it and was frustrated by it but it [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► did not it did not leave me in the same [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► unpleasant place that his previous novel [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► left me where I i had to be talked into [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► reading another book by this writer [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► whose other books I've liked yeah [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► there's one thing i want to quote from [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► the book because it may be left so hard [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► it was perfect thing about how we're [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► back on earth and they get invited this [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► colloquium their flow into America and [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► it's like all these people are standing [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► on talking about how great well you know [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► you guys didn't work hard enough and [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► we'll do it again we learned a lot from [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► this and this bit about they were all [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► men all Caucasian most spirited all [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► wearing jackets was [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► yes that was the moment I just wanted to [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► throw a book across the really in all [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► that time there's there's nothing for me [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► to look forward to you know okay i can [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► understand i can i dont have space [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► travel to look forward to we're not [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► going to colonize tau study but now my [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► men are just still in the same crap [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► place they are now thinking she was the [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► only person she's back to the days [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► there's just bearded men but you get [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► some yeah alright well you know Aurora [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► there it is [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► don't you want to read it now you shot [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► right i think i think they're the I i [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► think the I liked this Erica will know [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► this because I'm on those depressing [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► episodes of the audio guide to Babylon 5 [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► charm that I think I appreciate when a [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► writer tries to tell a story that is is [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► that they're going to be tough with us [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► and this is Kim Stanley Robinson saying [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► oh you think generation super good idea [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► well they're not and there are other [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► planets for us out there and just give [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► up and turn around and come home and our [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► that's what this is this is him having [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► that kind of vision of like it's a bad [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► idea and look let me show you how bad an [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► idea and I've read some nonfiction stuff [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► some like interviews that your family [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► has become kind of washes to become he's [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► kind of a grumpy old crank he's not Ave [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► the you won't you old with you young [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► whippersnapper friday yet but i don't [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► know how far off is you know i will own [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► that that at least the trunk of my [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► problem with this book was based on my [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► own expectation I thought it was going [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► to be something else they didn't i [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► didn't see where it was going until far [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► too late that it was going to that dark [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► place and saying saying around tough [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► beans [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► exactly exactly so it had gone in kind [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► of knowing more about what the story was [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► I probably would have enjoyed the [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► experience of it a little more but as it [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► is i did not and this is I don't think [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► this is a good book if you're looking [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► for a book to tell you a happy story [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► that will pull you can escape into and [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► the you know the power of man or [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► humanity i should say overcoming [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► challenges and triumphs attending and [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► skip this book [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► yeah let me take a break to tell you [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► about one of our sponsors [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► it's the walking dead collectors models [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► officially authorized by AMC and now [TS]

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00:40:25 ◼   ► collections it's the ultimate the [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► walking dead figurine collection created [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► for ultimate fans of the show it's an [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► extensive collection featuring the most [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► popular characters from across all the [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► seasons the walking dead as seen on AMC [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► every characters depicted in a classic [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► pose stands on a base and has been [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► faithfully reproduced in 12 21 scale [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► that's about three and three-quarters [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► inches tall [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► I have a bunch of them in front of me [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► right now I've got Tyrese here they sent [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► these to me I've got the governor who [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► looks super menacing as usual shown you [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► know she's got that sword [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► it's pretty awesome Glenn is here is [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► gonna have a baseball cap on though I [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► think he is not wearing a baseball cap [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► what's wrong can come on find that hat [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► daryl dixon I've got here Darrell Scott [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► is his gun i got Merle with his crazy [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► thing on his arm and of course Rick [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► Grimes and you can start your collection [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► today with Rick Grimes for only four [TS]

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00:41:21 ◼   ► they're painted by hand [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► following the original references from [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► the MC archives everyone comes with a [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► detailed booklet spotlighting that [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► character and new models are released [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► monthly and delivered directly to your [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► door so I guess I've got seven months [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► worth right on my desk right now it's [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► pretty awesome i can make a little [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► dioramas of them i can keep them in the [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► box if I want to be cruel or i can get [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► them out and play walking dead with him [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► you can cancel your subscription anytime [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► so there's no risk to you for details on [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► this whole collection and to order yours [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► go to TWD collection.com / smell that's [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► Rick Grimes for 495 with free shipping [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► it looks great [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► check it out TWD collection calm / smell [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► and thanks to eaglemoss for sponsoring [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► the incomparable alright we're going to [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► move on alphabetically to Luna colon new [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► moon by ian MacDonald it's a book is [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► booked a different book also set in [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► space it's on the moon just as you might [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► have got from the title which contains [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► the words luna and Moon just in case you [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► don't know it is the moon that we know [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► it is not a new moon it is a [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► match the other new moon yeah [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► yes it is our moon but it's got a its [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► got cities dug into the into the ground [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► and in the sides of craters and things [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► like that and what tricked-out moon and [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► so this book the idea the idea here is [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► that it's um it's a I it was sold to me [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► as sort of being like a game of thrones [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► and in the Hat on the moon where there [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► are powerful families vying for control [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► of various things on the moon it is a [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► that is what it is it is politics and [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► drama amidst the 5ki families and the [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► other people who live on the moon there [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► are minors and there are you know [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► transportation experts and there are [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► industrialists and things like that and [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► and then the core the core of the book [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► is that we we see the quarter family and [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► Adrianna Adrianna kurta is the founder [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► of this family and she's she's dying she [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► sort of has a self-made woman she came [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► to the moon with nothing and created [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► this sort of dynasty around her but she [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► has to buy with the problematic members [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► of the other families and there are many [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► different family members they all have [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► interesting quirks about their [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► personalities and they intermarry [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► because it's it that is a game of [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► thrones like element where there are [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► sort of marriages and contracts that are [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► done based on creating these kind of [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► connections between the two families and [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► yeah and it's on the moon so that makes [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► it science fiction because there's some [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► it's on the moon [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► yeah this one now it took me awhile to [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► get into this book I i tend to as you [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► may have guessed that based on what I [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► said about or up you i prefer a story [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► that's more of a story that has that you [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► know a beginning a middle and an end [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► sort of a tail because as I said history [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► books have always bored me and this did [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► read a little bit like a history book [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► eventually though I really got wrapped [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► up in the world I felt like it was [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► pretty elegant the characters and their [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► family politics where enough to draw [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► mean and keep me wanting to come back to [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► read it I could I could very easily put [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► it down and it did take me a while to [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► read the whole thing but I didn't drive [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► going back to it see Aurora so without [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► any spoilers that is what I have to say [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► about this book until the end [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► put that on the cover tried going back [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► to see dread free actually and Scott you [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► have a do you have a summation of your [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► feelings about this [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► this book is ian MacDonald I know is one [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► of your more her favorite writers you [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► not he is in fact and I feel like he has [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► been casting around for a way to make it [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► big in the literary world he tried to he [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► tried some young adult novels for a [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► while which i read it i hate young adult [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► novels but I read his and I kind of like [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► them but one of the things that draws me [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► into me and mcdonald is that he writes [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► complicated multi-layered stories and I [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► felt like this one was not as [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► complicated as I was hoping it would be [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► but I understood what he was going for [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► he is I think Jason you said it already [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► this is a game of he has described [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► themselves as game of domes or dallas on [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► the moon so I and I think he he lives up [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► to both of those things that he's [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► already sold the television rights so [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► clearly he's he's done his work here yes [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► and there's a sequel on the way there is [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► a sequel in merely a case just gonna be [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► a to book series i believe he decides [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► that if the second book sells a lot more [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► i'm sure they'll be a certain fuck yes [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► Luna wolf moon coming in September I'm [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► not kidding [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► oh no they're the wolves on the moon [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► anyway wherever it well there are the [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► world the house before [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► thank you so and I feel like you he's [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► written many novels and he's some of my [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► favorite novels of his have been the [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► Dervish house-to-house great great book [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► and I malafide ban Glenn malafide man [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► off i love that I remember yes and what [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► is it the river of God have you ever [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► gotten those two books i think our [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► the pinnacle of his craft I think he's a [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► fantastic writer i think that he wrote [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► this fantastically I feel like it could [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► have been more complicated lots of fish [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► that's just me [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► I like complicated but glad that the [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► more complicated part exactly wasn't [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► complicated enough for me could I would [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► have been talking about could have been [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► more complicated i'm sure he could do it [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► if you re river of God's you will [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► understand what happened to make it even [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► more complicated you throw in a couple [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► more genders how do you you could you [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► could make it a more complicated [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► that being said I really enjoyed it i [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► read it very quickly i want to read the [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► second one right now [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► so are we doing another spoiler horn for [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► this call ya say about the ok let's fire [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► off the spoiler horn the moon horn for [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► Luna colon new moon [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► for their colon you porn performer [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► Collins don't spoil your called Scott to [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► go ahead go ahead and finish your [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► thought Scott alsea the beginning in the [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► end he opens it with this you know kind [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► of punk kid doing this moon run thing [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► they do which seems insane where they [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► run without any protection across the [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► surface of the Moon and you know part of [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► the thing is it's a thrill and you might [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► die and it ends with a character who was [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► scared of doing that kind of doing that [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► save his own life and I think I'm very [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► nice balance [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► yeah I really I really did like that i [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► like the book ending of those two scenes [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► I thought it was very effective i really [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► like the beginning scene and then the [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► callback and you know he he spent so [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► much time talking about how you know his [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► father father of the character of the [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► beginning kind of drives the whole thing [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► and doesn't you seem to think his son is [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► living leading a frivolous life and is [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► kind of scared of doing this thing that [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► his son did and there's a lot like the [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► little undercurrent of jealousy and then [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► at the end he has to do the same thing [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► and you know goes off to his but [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► whatever secret Russian orbiting space [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► station and space [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► I'm glad you pointed that out because I [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► didn't even pick up on that I was just [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► so angry [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► fair enough it's another reaction that a [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► mist of everything i did have that [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► moment where i got to that at that point [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► the last chapter basically am I thought [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► to myself oh so this arm is going to be [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► more than one book then that was always [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► like I guess there's a lot I guess [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► and it makes sense actually that it's [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► too because that's sort of what it felt [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► like it i guess this is the fall of the [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► kurta family and that the next book will [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► be the revenge of the quarter family JR [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► has been shot in spate and Moon dallas [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► but he will be back [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► you know I didn't realize that he had [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► created he had said that thing about [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► Dallas because and which is interesting [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► because I did feel like that's what it [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► was [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► I mean at the end made me so mad because [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► it didn't feel like it sort of fit with [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► that so much it was like this [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► the book was like this lovely story [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► being played out like like a ribbon [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► flowing gently in the lunar breeze you [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► know bit by bit and learning things i'm [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► watching characters do stuff that I'm [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► interested in it didn't feel to me like [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► it was working up to anything much and [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► ok I was it took me a little while but [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► has finally in this world i was to [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► content to just exist in it and see who [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► did what and when and I really was [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► approaching it like a soap opera [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► you've got this huge cast of characters [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► spanning several generations they each [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► have their own storyline they all [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► overlap a little bit from time to time [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► but not in a particularly episodic way [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► and I was totally fine with that and [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► like a soap opera i would have been fine [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► with continuing to read about that in [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► perpetuity instead and a brief few dozen [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► pages at the end everything falls apart [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► the characters that I had spent all this [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► time getting to know many of them died [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► painful bloody horrible deaths and you [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► know that survived just barely did so [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► and have nothing but pain head of them [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► for at least a while I hated hits how [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► much I felt completely cheated and you [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► know maybe it was supposed to be some [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► sort of metaphor for how uncaring and [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► harsh the moon herself is but I just [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► didn't care [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► It was as if they had ended as the world [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► turns by bombing oakdale no thank you i [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► am I felt like I didn't know that [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► there's going to be a sequel I was [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► basically like you want to do a bit club [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► episode was like sure what you want me [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► to read and just like this is what [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► you're going to read and I was like okay [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► and i started reading and I felt like [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► the whole book was one long exposition [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► and I was like is this building to [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► anything it was just like just kind of [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► just kind of going along and yeah there [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► are things that happen and they're kind [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► of little bumps but they're all like [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► seem to be fairly little bumps and then [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► and then again yet the climax all at the [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► end and then it comes crashing and then [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► we're kind of left up there and there's [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► not really any resolution and so then I [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► started reading about it and was like oh [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► this is there's going to be a sequel and [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► I was like right so basically read the [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► first chapter of the next book over the [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► course of you know however long it took [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► me to read it it was like the end with [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► sweeps week if we go back to the soap [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► opera thing rates are going to leave [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► them wanting more and i don't think it [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► works that way i think i was so upset [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► about that just coming out of nowhere [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► that I'm not sure I honestly want to [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► read the second book I had a [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► a premonition that things we're not [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► going to end well when i started reading [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► this book of course of his other books [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► so yeah that might help [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► yeah I came into these books not ever [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► having read anything by these authors [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► not really knowing anything about them [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► and not knowing anything not knowing [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► thing one about either one of these [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► books so I was going in completely cold [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► when what do you think about Luna I felt [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► like it had a draft quality to it and it [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► and not the work wasn't finished and I [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► think I i agree that he's a he's a rich [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► characterization artists like he he [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► takes indefinitely uses because not [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► spare he doesn't use like three words to [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► describe something we're not doing that [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► but he actually built lots of pictures [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► in my head very rich interesting [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► characters many who had you know semi [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► believable interior life and when I got [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► to the soap opera feel of it I was like [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► okay this is all you need you don't need [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► 3d needed two and a half D thing if you [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► try to create these kinds of mechanisms [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► and and you know I loved dune only the [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► first book not the others and doing is [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► very much space operate and I think [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► there are things in common you know one [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► trouble I think he has is when you read [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► a book about people trying to carve out [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► especially in dependence on the moon [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► which is spot one of many subplots [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► you're always going to compare with [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► moves a harsh mistress if you've read [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► that book it resonates and I feel like [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► this book I didn't borrow from it but I [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► feel like there are too many parallels [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► to it for me to ignore how much better [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► aspects were done I mean it's one thing [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► when it's totally different or it [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► recognizes some of you know that the [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► source mythology that a lot of people [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► have her sci-fi fans for way back or [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► been covered it later [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► I so that was an issue for me but I also [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► feel like I'm going along like okay I'm [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► starting to feel this world and now [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► there are werewolves I mean it was [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► little you know little boys like yeah [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► okay werewolves werewolves are exactly [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► like this except when they're not [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► they're super smart but then they make [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► stupid choices and there's phase of the [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► Moon the earth where I can explain why [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► now there's 30 of them now and now they [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► make that you know you're like oh ok or [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► somewhere later in the book is the [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► Mackenzies repay everything three times [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► and you're like alright shouldn't you [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► have work that theme and much earlier [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► and I the the whole weird subplot about [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► idea [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► being around rya be what's-her-name [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► after gonna Nanjiani but the daughter uh [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► it's aria area i'm sorry i don't think [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► everyone [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► Ariel being a you know an autoerotic [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► self manipulator then like I i'm making [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► a judgment but i'm going to say that [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► scene is the least erotic description of [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► auto-erotic behavior that I think we're [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► ready so the most clinical Minneapolis [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► to feel disgusted by didn't think so the [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► sex in the book there's a fair amount of [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► it in a drawer here like here's an [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► element they got me when all of a sudden [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► Lucas says Jorge will you marry me and [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► I'm like it's a very soap opera moment [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► like did not see that coming yeah like [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► it there's no motivation exploration is [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► all that I thought coming yeah i mean [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► you saw i could see that only the gears [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► being ground into position to make that [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► makes sense but there was no I'm married [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► that's very soap opera right is like [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► hires that hires the beautiful beautiful [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► musician to play the music and falls in [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► love with him I mean now and i agree [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► with that I feel like he has just rich [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► enough characterization that I expect [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► more from and just pour enough [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► characterization or just a little [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► supportive he pulls back enough from [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► creating fully three-dimensional [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► characters who live and breathe [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► I don't think he does it and I think [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► that's intentional i think Ariel the way [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► I think the way that her sex room is [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► portrayed is perfectly in keeping with [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► the way she's portrayed throughout she [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► is a she is a kind of the that's quite [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► the black sheep of the family but she's [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► like a lawyer and she's like a control [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► freak and she is portrayed as being kind [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► of this independent person she was she [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► doesn't need anyone or anything she's [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► got her own agenda she's separating as [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► much as she came from her family as much [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► as you can and then when you get to the [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► point where you're in her you don't go [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► into that room she is the one playwright [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► it's great it's not locked or anything [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► it's just doze I don't know it was it [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► was it was peculiar and yet I felt like [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► it was in keeping with her character [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► that she has you know she doesn't need [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► anyone she takes care of herself and [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► that's fine that's you know that's part [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► of the variety because we do see a lot [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► of variety and in sexuality with the [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► Wolves I i kinda like the Wolves because [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► the idea there is that they're a they're [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► a you know a different kind of human [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► community then existed before and they [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► use the you know the idea that they're [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► looking up at the Earth instead of the [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► Moon I thought that was kind of pole [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► dick and weird and interesting that they [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► had created this whole new culture of [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► like this you know this group culture [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► where they have the behavior when they [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► were the wolf mode and the this other [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► behavior when they weren't i-i-i thought [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► that was kind of interesting I i I'd [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► like it if they would have made it just [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► sort of be poetic and made it seem like [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► it was a choice that these people had [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► made to to be part of the sect of [TS]