The Incomparable

291: I Like Complicated Books, Glenn


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00:00:20   code smell the entire purple number 291 [TS]

00:00:30   March 2060 [TS]

00:00:33   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:35   incomparable podcast i convened this [TS]

00:00:36   edition of our book club book club is [TS]

00:00:38   back [TS]

00:00:39   yeah and we read to recently published [TS]

00:00:43   in the last year novels of science [TS]

00:00:47   fictional description and origin it is [TS]

00:00:50   we're going to be talking about Aurora [TS]

00:00:52   by Kim Stanley Robinson and Luna new [TS]

00:00:55   moon by ian MacDonald and joining me to [TS]

00:00:58   discuss these two novels are a wonderful [TS]

00:01:01   panel of four people who have read at [TS]

00:01:03   least as far in all both of these novels [TS]

00:01:05   as they could until it broke them and [TS]

00:01:07   then possibly can press away [TS]

00:01:09   it happens allene sims Welcome Table [TS]

00:01:13   club i scammed [TS]

00:01:15   yeah you were skimming that's ok that's [TS]

00:01:17   ok i was i was will this will come up in [TS]

00:01:19   the water we reading segment at the end [TS]

00:01:21   but I was broken by a book that is not [TS]

00:01:23   one of these two books and Scott was [TS]

00:01:25   very kind in our slack chat and said [TS]

00:01:26   Jason you don't have to keep reading [TS]

00:01:28   very kind and so I didn't listen I'm [TS]

00:01:31   gonna do a nebula award in which case [TS]

00:01:34   I'm gonna have to deal with that was the [TS]

00:01:35   question is now I might have to go back [TS]

00:01:37   to it because I got nominated for a [TS]

00:01:38   nebula work and we will get there Scotty [TS]

00:01:39   melty of course he reads everything hi [TS]

00:01:41   Scott [TS]

00:01:42   hello you're not a scammer I am NOT a [TS]

00:01:45   skimmer i read these books many months [TS]

00:01:47   ago though so it may seem like a skim [TS]

00:01:49   yeah yeah I read them I finished them [TS]

00:01:51   about a month ago so I to perhaps have [TS]

00:01:55   have don't like no memory of them but [TS]

00:01:58   that's ok we will remember as we go glen [TS]

00:02:00   Fleischman is also here [TS]

00:02:01   hello hello I gave these books intensive [TS]

00:02:04   attention good at least one of us good [TS]

00:02:06   and Erica and sign also read did the [TS]

00:02:10   reading you did the reading right i did [TS]

00:02:12   there was I did a little bit of skimming [TS]

00:02:15   at the end of one of them but mostly I [TS]

00:02:18   was I was fully paying attention ish so [TS]

00:02:21   I against weekend that not other so [TS]

00:02:23   iíve read I've read four novels in the [TS]

00:02:26   last month and and I know it's madness [TS]

00:02:29   but what I what I found is iíve [TS]

00:02:32   actually read three all the way through [TS]

00:02:34   while trying to get through that fourth [TS]

00:02:35   and I told my wife is the other day that [TS]

00:02:38   you know when I when I really struggling [TS]

00:02:42   to get through a book i probably should [TS]

00:02:44   recognize that it's not me it's the book [TS]

00:02:46   because then I switch [TS]

00:02:47   to a different book and and I switch to [TS]

00:02:50   these two books in fact knowing that I i [TS]

00:02:52   was gonna do this podcast and I i read [TS]

00:02:55   through them very quickly and that other [TS]

00:02:57   book i still haven't finished I'm so [TS]

00:02:59   like fifty percent of the way through it [TS]

00:03:01   so i think that i think that is [TS]

00:03:03   interesting that you can tell whether a [TS]

00:03:04   book is working for you because either [TS]

00:03:06   pulls you along and you've got to read [TS]

00:03:07   the more of the book you're like oh man [TS]

00:03:09   I guess that's the book i'm reading i [TS]

00:03:11   guess i need to read more than when I [TS]

00:03:13   tell Jason might be on a podcast about [TS]

00:03:15   that and sound familiar [TS]

00:03:17   I left Achilles start alphabetically [TS]

00:03:19   because we have no other real way to [TS]

00:03:21   order these books were going to talk [TS]

00:03:22   about Aurora by kids [TS]

00:03:23   Kim Stanley Robinson Kim Stanley [TS]

00:03:25   Robinson is famous for writing [TS]

00:03:27   especially the Mars trilogy red mars [TS]

00:03:29   green Mars blue Mars he got a lot of [TS]

00:03:32   nominations for awards and won the [TS]

00:03:35   nebula award for 2312 a previous novel [TS]

00:03:38   that we discussed in a previous book [TS]

00:03:39   club and I hated that book as did other [TS]

00:03:44   people like Glenn I hated that but [TS]

00:03:47   number two already essay about how I [TS]

00:03:49   thought I was losing my mind reading [TS]

00:03:50   that book because I love Kim Stanley [TS]

00:03:52   Robinson work very much read the whole [TS]

00:03:55   Mars trilogy because short stories got [TS]

00:03:57   published books on the shelf and I [TS]

00:03:59   picked it up and I was mystified by its [TS]

00:04:01   but I did agree to read at work very [TS]

00:04:04   curious me too me too so aurora aurora [TS]

00:04:07   is a we're gonna we're gonna fire off [TS]

00:04:10   the spoiler horn in a moment and you and [TS]

00:04:13   you can look at the show notes if you [TS]

00:04:14   want to know or skip to the next chapter [TS]

00:04:16   or something if you want to skip to the [TS]

00:04:18   next book if you haven't read or and no [TS]

00:04:19   one here is talking about Aurora in [TS]

00:04:21   short is about a Generation ship it's [TS]

00:04:23   about a spaceship that is traveling from [TS]

00:04:25   Earth to a planet around or a couple of [TS]

00:04:28   planets as possible destinations around [TS]

00:04:30   the start how city they have been [TS]

00:04:32   they've been traveling for a hundred [TS]

00:04:35   sixty years and seven generations and [TS]

00:04:38   they're getting close to their [TS]

00:04:39   destination so it's the story of the [TS]

00:04:41   kind of end of the journey ? of the [TS]

00:04:45   Generation ship that has reached this at [TS]

00:04:48   this far-off solar system that they may [TS]

00:04:51   colonize and then the fun begins [TS]

00:04:54   so that's the story [TS]

00:04:56   fun let's fire off the spoiler horn now [TS]

00:05:00   [Music] [TS]

00:05:04   spoiler alert fun does not happen and [TS]

00:05:09   then the fun ends rapidly because well [TS]

00:05:11   no there's there's there's fun because [TS]

00:05:13   there's a now I'm I what can I start [TS]

00:05:16   because I wipe I have something positive [TS]

00:05:18   to say and ready to get out [TS]

00:05:20   listen let's get that letter to be [TS]

00:05:22   unpleasant fun and positive positivity [TS]

00:05:25   out of the way early [TS]

00:05:27   um I and I will I will do this without [TS]

00:05:30   spoiling the other book too but I [TS]

00:05:31   started reading them both at the same [TS]

00:05:33   time kind of i would read what kind of a [TS]

00:05:35   bit of one and then chapter the other [TS]

00:05:37   and then just go back and forth and at [TS]

00:05:39   first [TS]

00:05:40   aurora was the one that I wanted to go [TS]

00:05:42   back to and continue reading because [TS]

00:05:44   you're it's the beginning of a quest [TS]

00:05:46   basically you know it's a space dirty so [TS]

00:05:49   yeah I was interested in that aspect of [TS]

00:05:52   it and I liked at first I like the way [TS]

00:05:54   the book was doing the world building [TS]

00:05:57   because it's you know laying out the [TS]

00:05:58   daily routine on a generational [TS]

00:06:00   spaceship establishing all the inherent [TS]

00:06:03   risks and challenges to that kind of [TS]

00:06:05   undertaking at that time I didn't [TS]

00:06:08   realize that that is all the book was so [TS]

00:06:11   so I was pretty happy with it at first [TS]

00:06:13   and i was finding myself dreading going [TS]

00:06:15   back to the other book when I would go [TS]

00:06:17   back and forth and then that changed but [TS]

00:06:20   i'll let somebody else come first before [TS]

00:06:22   i start dumping on it [TS]

00:06:24   yeah I learned a lot about myself and [TS]

00:06:27   the process of writing this good [TS]

00:06:28   Wow journey of self-discovery is one [TS]

00:06:33   year sometimes you have to go to another [TS]

00:06:34   solar system [TS]

00:06:35   what about yourself so what i learned i [TS]

00:06:39   think is that hard science books are not [TS]

00:06:41   for me [TS]

00:06:42   no wonder for us and know that that's [TS]

00:06:45   not you haven't told that's not what i [TS]

00:06:46   learned and that little tell you want to [TS]

00:06:49   learn really tired yeah yeah yeah you [TS]

00:06:51   should serve first and then going to [TS]

00:06:53   explain why why I'm not true yeah and so [TS]

00:06:58   this is something I should have probably [TS]

00:06:59   known about myself doing some of the [TS]

00:07:01   things i do like having a podcast where [TS]

00:07:03   I interview people and you know talking [TS]

00:07:05   about firefly where I'm like it's not [TS]

00:07:07   about the fact that there's like Cowboys [TS]

00:07:09   in space it's about the people in their [TS]

00:07:11   relationship i like learning about [TS]

00:07:13   people and this is not the book where [TS]

00:07:16   you learn about people [TS]

00:07:17   no this is a book where lean skimmed [TS]

00:07:19   over a lot of statistically things that [TS]

00:07:22   she didn't care about so the parts of [TS]

00:07:25   the book that kind of concentrated on [TS]

00:07:28   you know in the beginning you know Freya [TS]

00:07:31   goes on this journey wandering the ship [TS]

00:07:34   i liked those parts i liked learning [TS]

00:07:35   about the people and how this all fits [TS]

00:07:37   together in the world building i liked [TS]

00:07:39   that a lot of shippers got modules that [TS]

00:07:41   are based on different eco eco systems [TS]

00:07:44   different biomes basically with [TS]

00:07:45   different cultures and that's a way they [TS]

00:07:47   maintain not only the diversity of like [TS]

00:07:50   the plants and animals that are going to [TS]

00:07:52   use to colonize but also the cultures of [TS]

00:07:55   Earth sort of as they go and then she [TS]

00:07:57   takes a oh she wanders through the ship [TS]

00:08:00   and we see the whole ship as a part of [TS]

00:08:02   my journey right yeah and I loved that [TS]

00:08:05   and then I loved the conceit you know [TS]

00:08:07   I'm in the beginning we learned that our [TS]

00:08:10   narrator is the computer computer system [TS]

00:08:14   i guess and i thought that was really [TS]

00:08:15   cool and we kind of warned how the [TS]

00:08:17   computer learned how to tell stories and [TS]

00:08:19   I was like oh this is really really [TS]

00:08:21   interesting i liked that a lot [TS]

00:08:22   and then I skimmed the last fifty [TS]

00:08:25   percent well I think I i think it would [TS]

00:08:27   be accurate to say that the novel takes [TS]

00:08:29   a u-turn in the middle and we will get [TS]

00:08:36   there glendy of it an opening uh no I [TS]

00:08:40   don't want to contradict anything [TS]

00:08:41   italian said I just want at all don't [TS]

00:08:43   contractor was not a hard science [TS]

00:08:45   fiction novel but not all exactly thanks [TS]

00:08:47   for what I wanted I could distinguish [TS]

00:08:49   this distinction between this which I [TS]

00:08:51   called like hard radiation of space and [TS]

00:08:54   vacuum science where you're just [TS]

00:08:56   completely exposed that any shielding of [TS]

00:08:58   any kind to the onslaught of endless [TS]

00:09:00   bits of trivia information and ideas [TS]

00:09:03   which 2312 have to say was even worse in [TS]

00:09:07   that regard you know there was a [TS]

00:09:08   stronger characterizations in 2312 i [TS]

00:09:11   would say then there's a lot more [TS]

00:09:12   dialogue because they were awful people [TS]

00:09:14   they were awful people it but it was [TS]

00:09:16   full of like just lists of things it was [TS]

00:09:18   his Moby Dick this book I found a very [TS]

00:09:21   interesting exercise and I want to talk [TS]

00:09:23   about I want some help actually teasing [TS]

00:09:24   apart aspects of X I'm still trying to [TS]

00:09:27   figure out sort of what overlapping [TS]

00:09:29   areas for being told [TS]

00:09:30   but I [TS]

00:09:31   it was at some level I feel like it was [TS]

00:09:33   a perfection of 2012 that it was it was [TS]

00:09:36   like reworking that book into something [TS]

00:09:38   that people more people might find [TS]

00:09:40   readable but the same thing he just took [TS]

00:09:42   away all that shielding like the whole [TS]

00:09:43   bit about you know the book is full of [TS]

00:09:45   details about being exposed to radiation [TS]

00:09:47   and all that you know random particles [TS]

00:09:50   in space and so forth and I feel like [TS]

00:09:51   this is that kind of heart it's like no [TS]

00:09:53   no you have to first get Eileen first to [TS]

00:09:56   go back to school and get two PhDs damn [TS]

00:09:58   come back to read this book and you'll [TS]

00:10:00   be fine until then had that warning [TS]

00:10:03   about on the inside discovery requires [TS]

00:10:05   blue having advanced physics degree I i [TS]

00:10:08   agree that with Glenn that it's it's not [TS]

00:10:10   so much that it was you know it wasn't [TS]

00:10:13   certainly wasn't poorly written [TS]

00:10:14   I just based on those first couple [TS]

00:10:15   chapters I think I expected that [TS]

00:10:18   description stuff would happen in the [TS]

00:10:19   first couple chapters and then we would [TS]

00:10:21   get on with the space adventuring and [TS]

00:10:23   learning to love or at least like some [TS]

00:10:25   of the characters and and I didn't [TS]

00:10:26   really care all that much for the part [TS]

00:10:28   with Freya going on her journey but at [TS]

00:10:30   least it was something what's kind of [TS]

00:10:31   happening with a person but the [TS]

00:10:35   characters to meet the characters and [TS]

00:10:36   what they were doing felt almost [TS]

00:10:37   entirely incidental to the world that [TS]

00:10:39   was created and the science of any and [TS]

00:10:42   you know sometimes on the other hand you [TS]

00:10:43   have a book that's so tunnel vision [TS]

00:10:45   focused on the characters in the plot [TS]

00:10:47   that you end up with giant gaping holes [TS]

00:10:49   in the world you can't see how anything [TS]

00:10:51   beyond those few characters in their [TS]

00:10:52   story work and I think this book is [TS]

00:10:54   100-percent the opposite of that it's so [TS]

00:10:56   totally focused on the science of the [TS]

00:10:57   journey and the mathematics of space and [TS]

00:11:00   planetary bodies and radiation that it [TS]

00:11:02   leaves those holes their emotional holes [TS]

00:11:05   where I expected the characters and the [TS]

00:11:07   story to be but that's that's a taste [TS]

00:11:09   thing so i'm i'm willing to cut book [TS]

00:11:11   slack when they forget the world [TS]

00:11:12   building is if they're focusing on the [TS]

00:11:14   characters too much I I you know some [TS]

00:11:17   people don't feel that way so if you're [TS]

00:11:19   one of those people that hates that [TS]

00:11:20   maybe you prefer the opposite and I was [TS]

00:11:22   like this book float a theory that just [TS]

00:11:25   came to me after we discuss this way is [TS]

00:11:26   here's a theory that were supposed to [TS]

00:11:28   perceive the book like you read through [TS]

00:11:31   the whole thing and then you're supposed [TS]

00:11:32   to perceive the book like a hole where [TS]

00:11:35   you realize the entire book is being [TS]

00:11:36   written by the AI including the part [TS]

00:11:38   before [TS]

00:11:39   yeah is writing it and the part after [TS]

00:11:41   the a is ostensibly destroyed they were [TS]

00:11:43   supposed to press [TS]

00:11:44   leave it as readers when we've completed [TS]

00:11:46   and go ah this entire thing is a [TS]

00:11:48   constructed narrative by the AI and the [TS]

00:11:51   AI is not a reliable narrator [TS]

00:11:52   necessarily despite the amount of detail [TS]

00:11:54   because it doesn't know how to tell the [TS]

00:11:55   story but at the point at which it is [TS]

00:11:57   ostensibly destroyed [TS]

00:11:59   it's not and we're reading a [TS]

00:12:00   continuation where it's become a better [TS]

00:12:02   storyteller but the depersonalization [TS]

00:12:04   the lack of personality the lack of [TS]

00:12:06   characters is a function of the AIS [TS]

00:12:08   inability to actually tell a story that [TS]

00:12:10   we find satisfying that's a [TS]

00:12:11   meta-narrative I'll why I don't have guy [TS]

00:12:14   except that but it's a fascinating [TS]

00:12:16   theory i don't think i won't quite that [TS]

00:12:18   deep i just i thought it was a perfect [TS]

00:12:20   conceit that it was the computer that [TS]

00:12:22   was telling the story and sort of [TS]

00:12:24   learning how to be more human as it went [TS]

00:12:27   because i felt like it was computer that [TS]

00:12:29   didn't understand what it means to be [TS]

00:12:30   human that was telling me the story but [TS]

00:12:32   you can tell the story before it starts [TS]

00:12:34   telling the story we reported the book [TS]

00:12:35   in which starting story and we're [TS]

00:12:36   putting the book when ostensibly ends my [TS]

00:12:38   contention is maybe ksr was trying to [TS]

00:12:40   tell us that there is no point before it [TS]

00:12:42   tells a story or point at which it's [TS]

00:12:43   it's dead [TS]

00:12:44   I don't know it so it's our reading and [TS]

00:12:46   I don't know if it's if he tries to be [TS]

00:12:47   very clever and that might be the [TS]

00:12:49   cleverness that we're supposed to see or [TS]

00:12:50   not or not it still has to work as a [TS]

00:12:52   story even if you're telling a [TS]

00:12:54   meta-narrative the stories to us to work [TS]

00:12:56   you can't just be satisfied because [TS]

00:12:57   there's some kind of overriding [TS]

00:12:58   structure that we're supposed to love [TS]

00:13:00   you know it's also a toast or somebody [TS]

00:13:02   could be i'm just not that somebody not [TS]

00:13:04   Scott not somebody tell me no mae [TS]

00:13:07   somebody so I picked both of these books [TS]

00:13:10   because i really liked both of them are [TS]

00:13:13   so spoiler alert i enjoyed this so [TS]

00:13:15   greatly I so part of the reason i think [TS]

00:13:20   that he wrote this book it and that [TS]

00:13:22   makes it so interesting to me is that he [TS]

00:13:25   has long been on the record that [TS]

00:13:27   thinking that generation ships won't [TS]

00:13:29   work [TS]

00:13:30   interstellar travel is very difficult [TS]

00:13:31   and that we should probably just stay on [TS]

00:13:34   earth because it seems like a giant [TS]

00:13:35   waste of effort to send humans off two [TS]

00:13:38   planets where God knows what will happen [TS]

00:13:40   and that we're doomed to fail and that's [TS]

00:13:42   what this book is all about right it's [TS]

00:13:43   an interesting story in which are or not [TS]

00:13:46   so interested depending on here your [TS]

00:13:48   your your opinion admission this is [TS]

00:13:50   great [TS]

00:13:52   pinnacle of human achievement utterly [TS]

00:13:54   and completely fails and comes back to a [TS]

00:13:57   world that basically rejects their [TS]

00:13:59   failure because they are like why the [TS]

00:14:02   hell did you come all the way back when [TS]

00:14:03   we sent you after 300 yes good question [TS]

00:14:06   exactly I know Jason that's one of your [TS]

00:14:08   biggest problems with the book is that [TS]

00:14:10   you think they could have tried [TS]

00:14:11   something else [TS]

00:14:12   yup but I feel like that speaks to human [TS]

00:14:14   nature and that you kind of freaked out [TS]

00:14:17   when you seem to have this instrumental [TS]

00:14:19   problem and the solution which is also [TS]

00:14:21   nearly insurmountable but you know is [TS]

00:14:23   solvable because you did in fact travel [TS]

00:14:25   that far already is to go back where you [TS]

00:14:28   came from where you know there's a safe [TS]

00:14:30   place for you to go even though the [TS]

00:14:32   journey will be very difficult and [TS]

00:14:34   that's kinda Freya trying to be like her [TS]

00:14:35   mother who was able to get them you know [TS]

00:14:39   her whole point was to get them the last [TS]

00:14:41   leg of the trip to their home which of [TS]

00:14:44   course tries to kill them all [TS]

00:14:46   yeah it does kill some of them and so [TS]

00:14:48   she has the not a reincarnation but [TS]

00:14:51   trying to finish her mother's mission in [TS]

00:14:54   getting the rest of them back to an [TS]

00:14:55   actual home that will support them and [TS]

00:14:58   then when they get there obviously it's [TS]

00:14:59   not so great and then I also think it's [TS]

00:15:02   interesting this whole day i think is [TS]

00:15:03   very interesting about learning how to [TS]

00:15:04   do metaphors i also think it's he plays [TS]

00:15:08   with the Generation ship trope about you [TS]

00:15:10   know people live on for so long so they [TS]

00:15:12   forget about things like there are [TS]

00:15:14   microphones and cameras everywhere so [TS]

00:15:16   the ship knows everything that they're [TS]

00:15:17   doing even though they don't think that [TS]

00:15:19   does and so there are people who are [TS]

00:15:21   like sneaking around seemingly trying to [TS]

00:15:23   hide from the ship the ship is watching [TS]

00:15:25   the entire time and it is really care [TS]

00:15:27   about what it's just what they're doing [TS]

00:15:28   so I just found it very interesting i [TS]

00:15:30   can't i do understand if you're looking [TS]

00:15:32   for deep characterization and [TS]

00:15:34   relationships [TS]

00:15:35   this is not the book for you i enjoyed [TS]

00:15:38   those parts to I just kind of wanted [TS]

00:15:40   more of those unless of the pages and [TS]

00:15:43   pages and pages of monologue [TS]

00:15:46   I don't know a computer monologue could [TS]

00:15:49   hear Donald yeah like it was all those [TS]

00:15:51   things Scott were all really really [TS]

00:15:53   interesting and then there are pages and [TS]

00:15:56   pages of stuff that could have been [TS]

00:15:58   condensed into three sentences and I [TS]

00:16:00   would've been just as happy [TS]

00:16:01   but that's the whole point uh I think [TS]

00:16:04   that what he's trying to do whether it's [TS]

00:16:06   successful or not ready to show you that [TS]

00:16:07   this computer is generating at least [TS]

00:16:09   part of this story and this is that so [TS]

00:16:12   it's not enjoyable to read parts of [TS]

00:16:15   stories that are written by the computer [TS]

00:16:16   especially as it's trying to learn how [TS]

00:16:17   to tell a story right now that is of [TS]

00:16:19   course when you write it down if the [TS]

00:16:22   paper you think maybe you should write a [TS]

00:16:24   book in which large portions of it are [TS]

00:16:26   unreadable exactly in 2312 maybe you [TS]

00:16:29   should write a book where the main [TS]

00:16:31   character is absolutely reprehensible [TS]

00:16:32   profits both of those books work from he [TS]

00:16:35   so what do I know [TS]

00:16:36   yeah i agree that it's it's it was it [TS]

00:16:39   was well written that the stuff that was [TS]

00:16:41   there and the ideas were cool like that [TS]

00:16:45   was that was the thing that you know if [TS]

00:16:46   somebody just told me about this book i [TS]

00:16:48   think i would've been like yeah that [TS]

00:16:49   sounds awesome but it was it was the [TS]

00:16:53   pages and pages like like a lien said [TS]

00:16:55   and the fact that even when it wasn't [TS]

00:16:56   the pages of sciency stuff even when [TS]

00:16:59   they were talking about the people and [TS]

00:17:00   what was happening [TS]

00:17:01   it really felt like I feel like reading [TS]

00:17:03   a history textbook and I've it was like [TS]

00:17:06   it would flip back and forth between [TS]

00:17:08   reading history textbook in a science [TS]

00:17:09   textbook and it in a mathematical [TS]

00:17:11   textbook actually and I never really [TS]

00:17:13   liked any of those things so that was [TS]

00:17:16   those where it fell down for me [TS]

00:17:18   let's take a break for me to tell you [TS]

00:17:20   about one of our sponsors it is IT pro [TS]

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00:19:30   year and mark your calendar the ccnp [TS]

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00:19:35   the very first time beginning of march [TS]

00:19:37   21st IT pro TV / Nell use code smell [TS]

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00:19:42   thirty percent off for the lifetime of [TS]

00:19:44   your account thank you to IT pro TV for [TS]

00:19:47   sponsoring being comfortable this is the [TS]

00:19:49   definition of a picturesque story and I [TS]

00:19:51   you know this is something I back in [TS]

00:19:52   high school when someone is like what [TS]

00:19:54   its picturesque we will talk about this [TS]

00:19:55   as opposed to narrative in a picturesque [TS]

00:19:57   is when your thing happens thing happens [TS]

00:19:59   thing happens thing happens and the end [TS]

00:20:01   and it's a huge critique of criticism of [TS]

00:20:04   a novel when its picturesque because it [TS]

00:20:06   means there's no arc there's no [TS]

00:20:07   development there's no you know multiple [TS]

00:20:08   storylines that converge or whatever and [TS]

00:20:11   I feel like at some level [TS]

00:20:12   this has so many different narrative [TS]

00:20:14   ideas going on that it but it winds up [TS]

00:20:15   being picker asking it's like they go [TS]

00:20:17   out they go to a planet things happen [TS]

00:20:19   the planet decided at work they come [TS]

00:20:20   back and they're a journey occurs but [TS]

00:20:23   there's any development occurred we see [TS]

00:20:24   any advancement the characters that we [TS]

00:20:26   learned something [TS]

00:20:27   ostensibly were supposed to come away [TS]

00:20:28   the [TS]

00:20:29   going like wow generation ships are bad [TS]

00:20:31   and most diverse is either totally dead [TS]

00:20:33   in a way we can do anything with or it's [TS]

00:20:36   already full of life that we can't do [TS]

00:20:38   anything with so stay at home folks and [TS]

00:20:40   fix the earth you know and that's a [TS]

00:20:41   that's a kind of heavy-handed you know [TS]

00:20:44   message but I just feel like it didn't [TS]

00:20:48   it wasn't a drift it's just it was I [TS]

00:20:50   mean within the story we have picaresque [TS]

00:20:52   because she's going from place to place [TS]

00:20:53   to place with no extensible reason we [TS]

00:20:55   have a picturesque within a picturesque [TS]

00:20:57   as well I you know I i we said before I [TS]

00:21:00   think this is a better book than his [TS]

00:21:02   last book i think one of the reasons is [TS]

00:21:03   that the main the main character Freya [TS]

00:21:06   is a is not as unlikable as the main [TS]

00:21:10   characters in 2012 but i don't actually [TS]

00:21:15   like her i have a lot of problems with [TS]

00:21:17   her i think i think one of the [TS]

00:21:18   fascinating I think this book is [TS]

00:21:20   fascinating [TS]

00:21:21   I i enjoyed reading it it frustrated me [TS]

00:21:23   at every turn and yet it was it was more [TS]

00:21:27   like me saying you know to the to the [TS]

00:21:30   author basically we know why did you [TS]

00:21:33   make this decision [TS]

00:21:34   did you know you were making this [TS]

00:21:35   decision are you doing this to mess with [TS]

00:21:37   me is that what you're doing because [TS]

00:21:39   let's let's take them off the most [TS]

00:21:42   interesting character in this book is [TS]

00:21:44   phrase mother who dies and the entire [TS]

00:21:47   rest of the book really a sort of afraid [TS]

00:21:49   of failing to live up to her mother [TS]

00:21:51   that's an interesting creative decision [TS]

00:21:53   right and I i think there's a civil war [TS]

00:21:56   at one point because people are arguing [TS]

00:21:57   when they go to when they go to a study [TS]

00:21:59   to find that there is this first planet [TS]

00:22:01   it's brutal there's wind I i really like [TS]

00:22:03   that i like his eyes just almost [TS]

00:22:05   despondency about we know he's basically [TS]

00:22:08   arguing there aren't habitable planets [TS]

00:22:10   out there especially not in a small [TS]

00:22:12   sample size near our solar system [TS]

00:22:15   you're not going to find habitable [TS]

00:22:16   planets you're gonna think they're in a [TS]

00:22:17   habitable zone you're going to go there [TS]

00:22:18   you're going to find that there are [TS]

00:22:19   reasons why you can't live there so [TS]

00:22:21   there's the windy planet it's cold it's [TS]

00:22:23   windy and then it turns out they're [TS]

00:22:24   basically prion there that kill [TS]

00:22:26   everybody it's not life per se but it's [TS]

00:22:28   a thing that is contaminated [TS]

00:22:30   it's a different biosystem it kills them [TS]

00:22:32   and then the other alternative is [TS]

00:22:33   something that's basically like Mars [TS]

00:22:35   it's cold and miserable and some people [TS]

00:22:38   want to go there and they send them [TS]

00:22:39   there we never hear from them again the [TS]

00:22:40   assumption is that they just all died [TS]

00:22:42   so they have the Civil War about what to [TS]

00:22:45   do whether it's to colonize the the [TS]

00:22:49   mars-like place or go on to another star [TS]

00:22:51   system that's further off or turn around [TS]

00:22:53   and go back to earth and and the poor [TS]

00:22:56   one of the problems I had and again I [TS]

00:22:57   don't think this was intentional on the [TS]

00:22:59   on the writers part is i sided with the [TS]

00:23:02   people who are main characters opposed [TS]

00:23:04   the entire time i thought the main [TS]

00:23:06   characters were completely wrong and [TS]

00:23:09   that their arguments were stupid and [TS]

00:23:11   that was a problem because basically [TS]

00:23:13   that place me against it's me against [TS]

00:23:16   the book because my and again it's smart [TS]

00:23:19   and it's interesting in the sense that [TS]

00:23:21   he's basically saying what if the people [TS]

00:23:26   you send that the descendants of the [TS]

00:23:28   people you send out on a Generation ship [TS]

00:23:29   don't want to be there that's [TS]

00:23:32   essentially what this this book is is [TS]

00:23:34   they don't want to be there they didn't [TS]

00:23:36   sign up for this and they just want to [TS]

00:23:38   go back to earth and my thought was yep [TS]

00:23:40   guys you know there's a lot of people on [TS]

00:23:42   earth you're you're already out among [TS]

00:23:44   the stars just keep going maybe you'll [TS]

00:23:46   find something and and there's a there's [TS]

00:23:48   a passage that i thought was really [TS]

00:23:49   interesting where they say they sent out [TS]

00:23:51   a bunch of these generation ships for [TS]

00:23:52   all we know everybody on all of them [TS]

00:23:54   died and if you're sitting back on earth [TS]

00:23:56   your thought is well you know we tried [TS]

00:23:58   but if you're on one of the ships feel [TS]

00:24:00   like I don't wanna die i wanna i want to [TS]

00:24:02   live I want to find a place to live so [TS]

00:24:04   this is what you get is is is this [TS]

00:24:08   response it just bugs me because i don't [TS]

00:24:10   agree with that i felt like they should [TS]

00:24:11   have either tried to they're all that [TS]

00:24:12   way they should either keep going or [TS]

00:24:15   they should try their hand at something [TS]

00:24:16   but to just come back to earth and [TS]

00:24:17   filled it felt like such a letdown and [TS]

00:24:19   then the part where we're really [TS]

00:24:20   bothered me was that when they like then [TS]

00:24:22   they watch some TV and discover that [TS]

00:24:24   there's suspension technology has been [TS]

00:24:27   invented which is just a cheat to get [TS]

00:24:29   the characters we've been following back [TS]

00:24:30   to earth themselves instead of it being [TS]

00:24:32   their descendants and that felt like a [TS]

00:24:34   like just a ripoff [TS]

00:24:35   let me hit that's the point to this the [TS]

00:24:37   decision point comes almost a little [TS]

00:24:38   middle of the book was exactly halfway [TS]

00:24:40   through the u-turn [TS]

00:24:41   yeah and i'm reading a book and I'll [TS]

00:24:42   tell you like to start with the book and [TS]

00:24:44   it's got one narrative agent right it's [TS]

00:24:46   got your sort of a sort of a super [TS]

00:24:48   observer it's focused on devi and as a [TS]

00:24:50   team and friday and so you sort of know [TS]

00:24:53   what's going on the right and and then [TS]

00:24:55   it shifts [TS]

00:24:56   you see the ship takes over the aeration [TS]

00:24:58   because daddy's gonna die and it's you [TS]

00:25:00   know try to graph to us the ship takes [TS]

00:25:02   over the narration and I tell you like [TS]

00:25:03   what got me through the first half of [TS]

00:25:05   this book was I had this anticipation i [TS]

00:25:07   felt he built a really good anticipation [TS]

00:25:09   that something was going to happen [TS]

00:25:11   they're gonna arrive at the planet [TS]

00:25:12   something happened so its building [TS]

00:25:14   building building the narrative changes [TS]

00:25:16   and that's kind of interesting i like [TS]

00:25:17   seeing the aisource boot up its ability [TS]

00:25:19   to tell a story and fail and retry and [TS]

00:25:21   devi dies all you know Moses never sees [TS]

00:25:23   the promised land and so forth [TS]

00:25:25   it's all great and it builds and builds [TS]

00:25:26   building and then here's the part that I [TS]

00:25:28   just going to say I adored the pivot [TS]

00:25:30   point in the book and i'm looking on the [TS]

00:25:32   kindle it's exactly forty-eight percent [TS]

00:25:33   rate almost right halfway about it says [TS]

00:25:36   you know the ship is making this whole [TS]

00:25:38   statement about all the Civil War that's [TS]

00:25:40   happening when everyone is not like I [TS]

00:25:41   like that I like that at some point in [TS]

00:25:43   the civil war that the AI basically says [TS]

00:25:45   alright everybody go to neutral corners [TS]

00:25:46   I'm in charge now I'm not gonna let [TS]

00:25:48   yourselves [TS]

00:25:48   yeah ships decided to intervene which is [TS]

00:25:50   to say if so factor we intervened it [TS]

00:25:52   shifts from a third-person to a second [TS]

00:25:55   person or a first-person plural [TS]

00:25:56   yeah at that moment ah we've hit he's [TS]

00:25:59   brilliantly build up all this tension [TS]

00:26:01   and now we're in the story the first [TS]

00:26:04   fifty percent was prolonged what's gonna [TS]

00:26:06   happen and I didn't feel it paid off [TS]

00:26:08   thats that was my disappointment [TS]

00:26:09   actually yeah it was kind of like we we [TS]

00:26:11   got the climax in the middle of the book [TS]

00:26:13   and then it was falling action from [TS]

00:26:14   there on in yeah yeah i think part of [TS]

00:26:17   part of it is my disappointment was not [TS]

00:26:19   knowing what to expect from this book [TS]

00:26:20   you know I am a sucker for stories where [TS]

00:26:23   people are far away and under pressure [TS]

00:26:25   and are trying to find a way to live on [TS]

00:26:28   you know to explore and to live on a new [TS]

00:26:29   world and so when they went down to the [TS]

00:26:31   Windy planet and I thought oh well this [TS]

00:26:33   could be bad but maybe you know is this [TS]

00:26:34   the rest of the book it turns out know [TS]

00:26:36   everybody dies 641 and and it's and it's [TS]

00:26:40   sad and all that night I go I get what [TS]

00:26:42   he's trying to do and so I I'm you know [TS]

00:26:44   my perception of the rest of the book [TS]

00:26:45   was colored by that oh no it's not gonna [TS]

00:26:48   be about what happens when they get [TS]

00:26:49   there and they're all on their own and [TS]

00:26:51   they stay there these kind of grizzled [TS]

00:26:52   you know people from this breaking down [TS]

00:26:55   technology on the spaceship and that now [TS]

00:26:57   they have to find make their way on a [TS]

00:26:59   planet again and they never lived on a [TS]

00:27:00   planet before and I thought well that [TS]

00:27:02   might be an interesting book but that's [TS]

00:27:03   not this book that this book goes back [TS]

00:27:06   up and you know I'd i really like the [TS]

00:27:08   the [TS]

00:27:09   hey I being the sheriff and saying look [TS]

00:27:11   I'm not in charge but I'm not gonna let [TS]

00:27:13   you hurt each other [TS]

00:27:14   you're gonna have to behave and and that [TS]

00:27:16   was good in the end though [TS]

00:27:18   basically you know they turn around they [TS]

00:27:21   leave the people behind on the on the [TS]

00:27:22   Mars analog they turn around and they [TS]

00:27:25   will they invented technology that [TS]

00:27:27   they've received by radio basically by [TS]

00:27:28   laser from Earth that lets them live in [TS]

00:27:32   suspended animation and go all the way [TS]

00:27:33   back without having to you know generate [TS]

00:27:36   new characters which you know it was [TS]

00:27:38   like that was a little bit of a cheat [TS]

00:27:40   because there's a lot of cheap it was a [TS]

00:27:42   good table okay alright giant sheet just [TS]

00:27:45   because yeah we had we had gotten to not [TS]

00:27:48   going to say like these characters but [TS]

00:27:49   we've gotten to know these characters [TS]

00:27:50   and I mean I guess if he wouldn't have [TS]

00:27:53   pulled this cheat and they would have [TS]

00:27:55   just been other people barely scraping [TS]

00:27:57   by to survive until they get back to [TS]

00:27:59   earth it would have been even worse [TS]

00:28:01   because then I would have had absolutely [TS]

00:28:03   nobody to look at the story through so I [TS]

00:28:06   don't six of one half dozen of the other [TS]

00:28:08   there are Generation ship books that do [TS]

00:28:09   that pull off or read or [TS]

00:28:11   multi-generation books that go over [TS]

00:28:12   three empires or travels or whatever in [TS]

00:28:14   their ways to do it I kind of thought he [TS]

00:28:16   was going to hand it off i thought [TS]

00:28:17   there's we pivot point and they spend [TS]

00:28:20   you know what generation orbit things [TS]

00:28:21   would happen maybe i don't know i don't [TS]

00:28:23   know exactly what's gonna happen at that [TS]

00:28:24   point it didn't seem to me like they go [TS]

00:28:26   back because that seems ridiculous so [TS]

00:28:29   that shows what I know but I did think [TS]

00:28:30   there are ways where you can have you [TS]

00:28:33   know sort of a beautiful continuity as [TS]

00:28:35   opposed to saying OK and now suspended [TS]

00:28:37   animation i did like there was a great [TS]

00:28:40   an analogy that comes at some point [TS]

00:28:43   where i forget which character is talks [TS]

00:28:46   about it being a child abuse that [TS]

00:28:48   actually multi-generation ships are are [TS]

00:28:50   like it's like a you know it's what [TS]

00:28:53   kidnapping and stealing from your use [TS]

00:28:55   the word it was klepto something was [TS]

00:28:58   stealing from future generations and [TS]

00:29:00   childhood and like that's all rather [TS]

00:29:02   harsh like no it is because you send [TS]

00:29:04   people off to have stolen all their [TS]

00:29:07   children's futures and made the [TS]

00:29:08   decisions to do that before they leave [TS]

00:29:10   him like that is actually very powerful [TS]

00:29:12   argument against multi-generation ships [TS]

00:29:14   that people can't consent before they're [TS]

00:29:16   born being born like that but i think [TS]

00:29:19   part of this argument is too [TS]

00:29:20   we are all born [TS]

00:29:22   that we're all born without concerning [TS]

00:29:23   born and you know never asked and the [TS]

00:29:25   suspension parts they didn't I didn't [TS]

00:29:27   think of it as cheat only because i have [TS]

00:29:29   I think of it as piling onto the failure [TS]

00:29:33   of the Generation ship because if they [TS]

00:29:35   had just waited three hundred years [TS]

00:29:36   their exploration would have been much [TS]

00:29:39   easier because they could have been in [TS]

00:29:40   this match and parts together and don't [TS]

00:29:42   come back and this i have been for a [TS]

00:29:45   long time thinking about them for [TS]

00:29:46   someone already wrote a short story but [TS]

00:29:48   a short story in which a giant [TS]

00:29:49   Generation ship takes forever to get to [TS]

00:29:51   a planet and they go around the planet [TS]

00:29:53   and they get a mysterious transmission [TS]

00:29:55   from the planet wishes humans who beat [TS]

00:29:57   them there because of advances in [TS]

00:29:58   technology and they just got there [TS]

00:30:00   faster than the generation ships I've [TS]

00:30:01   read that their entire I'm sure it's [TS]

00:30:04   been written already so their entire [TS]

00:30:05   mission is a fraud basically write you a [TS]

00:30:08   complete this scott micronauts issue [TS]

00:30:10   number one has that same plot little bit [TS]

00:30:14   but there's a short story in which a [TS]

00:30:16   Generation ship is everyone is in [TS]

00:30:18   cryogenic storage they're traveling the [TS]

00:30:20   captain has to wake up from time to time [TS]

00:30:21   and someone should set them with faster [TS]

00:30:24   light weapons which earth didn't exist [TS]

00:30:26   believe existed and the captain cleverly [TS]

00:30:28   beats them off and then says okay we're [TS]

00:30:29   turning back because we're going at [TS]

00:30:30   sublight speeds apparently someone [TS]

00:30:32   else's developed FTL so we're gonna go [TS]

00:30:34   back and fix it then go back out wanted [TS]

00:30:36   to talk about Freya just a little bit [TS]

00:30:38   out because i had and i think it was [TS]

00:30:41   maybe that and the AI learning how to [TS]

00:30:46   tell a story piece I don't know but like [TS]

00:30:48   in the beginning of the book we are [TS]

00:30:51   introduced to Freya and it's like oh [TS]

00:30:53   this is a really cute six-year-old and [TS]

00:30:55   her stuff that she's like not six and I [TS]

00:30:58   felt like that was really sprung on me [TS]

00:31:00   because it's like oh she's 14 and it [TS]

00:31:03   runs until you just said that that the [TS]

00:31:05   eighth i know what your age was it when [TS]

00:31:07   she was 14 but i forgot that they left [TS]

00:31:08   us forward [TS]

00:31:09   I mean that the ex sorry but I didn't [TS]

00:31:11   get that till just now yeah I think they [TS]

00:31:13   were clues pretty early because I I [TS]

00:31:15   almost don't remember a time where I [TS]

00:31:16   didn't recognize that she was a you know [TS]

00:31:18   sort of a young personal older person's [TS]

00:31:22   body while they were talking about how [TS]

00:31:24   much bigger she was then everybody and I [TS]

00:31:26   was like okay you know it i I've worked [TS]

00:31:29   with some big kids i used to work in [TS]

00:31:31   preschools so I've worked with some some [TS]

00:31:33   three year olds who could be mistaken [TS]

00:31:34   for like six year old [TS]

00:31:35   this is a thing that I have experience [TS]

00:31:37   with I'm sure that colored that but and [TS]

00:31:40   I I thought it was kind of like a weird [TS]

00:31:42   thing where it's like six and then [TS]

00:31:45   ok maybe she's like 12 and then we went [TS]

00:31:47   forward a little bit and she's 14 and so [TS]

00:31:50   she's like what an eight-year-old to in [TS]

00:31:52   a 14 year olds body who they send off to [TS]

00:31:54   wander around the ship and I mean that [TS]

00:31:58   was all really odd to me and then she [TS]

00:32:00   jumps from being like this this very [TS]

00:32:02   childlike teenager to being a leader of [TS]

00:32:07   the ship like like the eggs like yeah [TS]

00:32:09   she's she's respected and a leader and [TS]

00:32:12   blah blah but it's never shown we're [TS]

00:32:16   told that she is her behavior doesn't [TS]

00:32:18   see it doesn't indicate that she would [TS]

00:32:20   be because she has these like temper [TS]

00:32:22   tantrums all the time right [TS]

00:32:25   I mean during the Civil War she has a [TS]

00:32:27   she is there's there's a scene where [TS]

00:32:28   there's like this it's like oh well [TS]

00:32:30   we've got a problem what is it and she [TS]

00:32:31   basically just screams and I thought [TS]

00:32:34   really [TS]

00:32:35   yes is this Kari that's the character [TS]

00:32:36   you've got all right you know again I [TS]

00:32:39   think he may be delights in having a [TS]

00:32:40   character that is not particularly [TS]

00:32:41   likeable but she you know III again [TS]

00:32:44   again fascinating to have that moment of [TS]

00:32:46   like as a reader judging the main [TS]

00:32:48   character in single boy you're not as [TS]

00:32:49   good as your mom was right but that was [TS]

00:32:51   me i was doing that although I was it [TS]

00:32:53   was it's like it's not what you know [TS]

00:32:55   it's not what you know or what you can [TS]

00:32:57   do it's not even who you know it's who [TS]

00:32:59   you're related to that's the only thing [TS]

00:33:01   she has going for her then there's the [TS]

00:33:02   jokey character that they introduces a [TS]

00:33:04   mathematical genius and kind of an [TS]

00:33:06   oddball Marco this character is going to [TS]

00:33:08   be very important to develop the plot 0 [TS]

00:33:11   knots well maybe later with the orbital [TS]

00:33:13   mechanics sort of but they don't let you [TS]

00:33:17   know there's a I thought they were going [TS]

00:33:18   to do this thing [TS]

00:33:19   there's a famous sci-fi story remember [TS]

00:33:21   who wrote it was decades ago I was [TS]

00:33:23   probably before i was born but in which [TS]

00:33:25   I earth sends out these astronauts again [TS]

00:33:27   like faster-than-light or sublight speed [TS]

00:33:30   to Alpha Centauri to you know do some [TS]

00:33:32   probing they're going off and the [TS]

00:33:34   farther they get away from Earth the [TS]

00:33:35   sort of scarier they become they become [TS]

00:33:37   more intelligent and that was apparently [TS]

00:33:38   the hidden goal and they wind up like [TS]

00:33:40   sending a beam back to earth and disrupt [TS]

00:33:42   society and come back like God's it's [TS]

00:33:44   really fascinating story the part of the [TS]

00:33:46   Ark is the [TS]

00:33:47   further away they go them they they just [TS]

00:33:49   start doing all this advanced math this [TS]

00:33:51   and Batgirl numbers are doing all this [TS]

00:33:52   nonsense i thought oh we're gonna have a [TS]

00:33:55   little not magical realism but it's [TS]

00:33:57   going to be [TS]

00:33:57   ah ok maybe it's an homage to that or [TS]

00:34:01   jokey is gonna be part of a generation [TS]

00:34:02   and this whole idea that the ship [TS]

00:34:04   everyone's getting sort of stupider [TS]

00:34:05   because they have bad nutrition over [TS]

00:34:08   time they messed something up and so [TS]

00:34:10   Fraya is you know somehow [TS]

00:34:11   developmentally disabled maybe you're [TS]

00:34:13   not really because she's not not smart [TS]

00:34:15   just can't do math and it's confusing [TS]

00:34:16   and no joke he is kind of a savant and [TS]

00:34:20   anyway so it was kind of back and forth [TS]

00:34:21   in and then his work his importance is [TS]

00:34:24   never realized and we're never really [TS]

00:34:26   deal with the impact of that whole thing [TS]

00:34:28   like that they're all bromide blackacre [TS]

00:34:31   something that kids brains out of [TS]

00:34:33   bromide in it you're like this is an [TS]

00:34:35   interesting exploration but doesn't play [TS]

00:34:37   out in the characters that the [TS]

00:34:38   characters are less sophisticated we're [TS]

00:34:40   not really seeing that so much we're [TS]

00:34:42   seeing a repeat of previous flights on [TS]

00:34:44   the ship so that's one that can sing too [TS]

00:34:46   well it was better than the last one how [TS]

00:34:49   do people feel about the fact that the [TS]

00:34:51   ship didn't make it i actually had a [TS]

00:34:52   little bit of that a of rocks i spoil [TS]

00:34:55   and spoil monument valley by the moment [TS]

00:34:57   on your Valley where you sort of there's [TS]

00:34:58   a pain related to a seemingly an object [TS]

00:35:01   that has life and I thought well yeah [TS]

00:35:03   has to make it that's how these novels [TS]

00:35:05   work and say it doesn't and then you [TS]

00:35:07   have what I felt like it was sort of a [TS]

00:35:09   it was a dissolved three-story after [TS]

00:35:11   that so i wasn't sure you know they're [TS]

00:35:13   on earth and it's sort of the end of the [TS]

00:35:15   story and it's not only played on a very [TS]

00:35:17   odd fashion [TS]

00:35:18   well they're terrorists they're [TS]

00:35:19   terraforming earth at the end right so [TS]

00:35:21   that's right yeah that's true true i did [TS]

00:35:24   feel for the ship but whereas in the [TS]

00:35:26   most books and properties like this I [TS]

00:35:30   feel for the ship in part for myself and [TS]

00:35:32   in part for the characters that are also [TS]

00:35:34   feeling for the ship in this case I [TS]

00:35:36   didn't care what the characters thought [TS]

00:35:38   at all about the ship [TS]

00:35:39   nope though I did feel bad myself that [TS]

00:35:42   was the one moment of real emotion i [TS]

00:35:43   think that I that I truly felt at any [TS]

00:35:46   point just because you know here's this [TS]

00:35:48   the ship who is basically a character [TS]

00:35:50   possibly the character who has has done [TS]

00:35:53   all of this stuff to make it possible [TS]

00:35:54   and no it's really selfless thing that [TS]

00:35:57   that she it has done in [TS]

00:36:01   order to make life possible for all of [TS]

00:36:03   these all these little creatures so I [TS]

00:36:05   was I was I was sad for myself and I was [TS]

00:36:08   also a little bit annoyed just on behalf [TS]

00:36:10   of the fact that i had read through all [TS]

00:36:11   of this and not only did they not you [TS]

00:36:13   know get to colonize something someplace [TS]

00:36:15   else but this this ship didn't even get [TS]

00:36:19   to make it all the way through and I [TS]

00:36:21   didn't get to see any kind of a happy [TS]

00:36:23   ending that I cared about I was really [TS]

00:36:24   hoping that the ship would just go into [TS]

00:36:26   orbit and there you know maybe people [TS]

00:36:28   would just go and live on the ship but [TS]

00:36:29   be able to be replenished from stocks [TS]

00:36:31   are you don't think surfing is have a [TS]

00:36:33   happy ending [TS]

00:36:34   no no I do not bodysurfing it was also [TS]

00:36:38   very much the end of thumb of a green [TS]

00:36:41   Mars I think isn't it or blue marks was [TS]

00:36:42   the third book in the series [TS]

00:36:44   some people are on Mars and Mars is very [TS]

00:36:46   earth-like now they're on a beach and [TS]

00:36:48   there's even a bit in that trilogy in [TS]

00:36:50   which marshalls go back to earth and [TS]

00:36:53   they sort of deal with returning to [TS]

00:36:54   Earth and people have existential life [TS]

00:36:56   failure which they just stop living for [TS]

00:36:58   no reason that sort of in this book too [TS]

00:37:00   so I feel like he took some ideas and [TS]

00:37:02   and it wasn't part of the same universe [TS]

00:37:04   it's clearly not really the same [TS]

00:37:06   universe as the DeMars trilogy [TS]

00:37:09   I don't know it's a I i'm glad i read it [TS]

00:37:12   Scott I'm glad to read it I'm glad you [TS]

00:37:14   read it to claim haha well redeemed I [TS]

00:37:17   mean I need a little Redemption from [TS]

00:37:18   2312 and i just love his work so much [TS]

00:37:21   and he's breaking it so hard for me to [TS]

00:37:22   love his work [TS]

00:37:23   I still like it so I'm also glad you [TS]

00:37:27   read it's got you know that I'm sorry [TS]

00:37:29   that you read it now i i'm i'm kinda [TS]

00:37:33   with Glenn where I appreciated things [TS]

00:37:36   about it and was frustrated by it but it [TS]

00:37:37   did not it did not leave me in the same [TS]

00:37:39   unpleasant place that his previous novel [TS]

00:37:41   left me where I i had to be talked into [TS]

00:37:44   reading another book by this writer [TS]

00:37:46   whose other books I've liked yeah [TS]

00:37:49   there's one thing i want to quote from [TS]

00:37:50   the book because it may be left so hard [TS]

00:37:52   it was perfect thing about how we're [TS]

00:37:55   back on earth and they get invited this [TS]

00:37:56   colloquium their flow into America and [TS]

00:37:59   it's like all these people are standing [TS]

00:38:00   on talking about how great well you know [TS]

00:38:02   you guys didn't work hard enough and [TS]

00:38:03   we'll do it again we learned a lot from [TS]

00:38:04   this and this bit about they were all [TS]

00:38:07   men all Caucasian most spirited all [TS]

00:38:10   wearing jackets was [TS]

00:38:12   yes that was the moment I just wanted to [TS]

00:38:13   throw a book across the really in all [TS]

00:38:16   that time there's there's nothing for me [TS]

00:38:18   to look forward to you know okay i can [TS]

00:38:20   understand i can i dont have space [TS]

00:38:21   travel to look forward to we're not [TS]

00:38:23   going to colonize tau study but now my [TS]

00:38:25   men are just still in the same crap [TS]

00:38:28   place they are now thinking she was the [TS]

00:38:29   only person she's back to the days [TS]

00:38:32   there's just bearded men but you get [TS]

00:38:34   some yeah alright well you know Aurora [TS]

00:38:36   there it is [TS]

00:38:37   don't you want to read it now you shot [TS]

00:38:39   right i think i think they're the I i [TS]

00:38:41   think the I liked this Erica will know [TS]

00:38:44   this because I'm on those depressing [TS]

00:38:46   episodes of the audio guide to Babylon 5 [TS]

00:38:48   charm that I think I appreciate when a [TS]

00:38:53   writer tries to tell a story that is is [TS]

00:38:56   that they're going to be tough with us [TS]

00:38:57   and this is Kim Stanley Robinson saying [TS]

00:38:59   oh you think generation super good idea [TS]

00:39:02   well they're not and there are other [TS]

00:39:04   planets for us out there and just give [TS]

00:39:06   up and turn around and come home and our [TS]

00:39:08   that's what this is this is him having [TS]

00:39:11   that kind of vision of like it's a bad [TS]

00:39:13   idea and look let me show you how bad an [TS]

00:39:15   idea and I've read some nonfiction stuff [TS]

00:39:17   some like interviews that your family [TS]

00:39:19   has become kind of washes to become he's [TS]

00:39:21   kind of a grumpy old crank he's not Ave [TS]

00:39:24   the you won't you old with you young [TS]

00:39:26   whippersnapper friday yet but i don't [TS]

00:39:29   know how far off is you know i will own [TS]

00:39:31   that that at least the trunk of my [TS]

00:39:33   problem with this book was based on my [TS]

00:39:35   own expectation I thought it was going [TS]

00:39:37   to be something else they didn't i [TS]

00:39:38   didn't see where it was going until far [TS]

00:39:41   too late that it was going to that dark [TS]

00:39:42   place and saying saying around tough [TS]

00:39:45   beans [TS]

00:39:46   exactly exactly so it had gone in kind [TS]

00:39:48   of knowing more about what the story was [TS]

00:39:50   I probably would have enjoyed the [TS]

00:39:52   experience of it a little more but as it [TS]

00:39:55   is i did not and this is I don't think [TS]

00:39:57   this is a good book if you're looking [TS]

00:39:59   for a book to tell you a happy story [TS]

00:40:02   that will pull you can escape into and [TS]

00:40:05   the you know the power of man or [TS]

00:40:08   humanity i should say overcoming [TS]

00:40:10   challenges and triumphs attending and [TS]

00:40:13   skip this book [TS]

00:40:14   yeah let me take a break to tell you [TS]

00:40:16   about one of our sponsors [TS]

00:40:17   it's the walking dead collectors models [TS]

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00:40:45   that's about three and three-quarters [TS]

00:40:46   inches tall [TS]

00:40:47   I have a bunch of them in front of me [TS]

00:40:48   right now I've got Tyrese here they sent [TS]

00:40:50   these to me I've got the governor who [TS]

00:40:51   looks super menacing as usual shown you [TS]

00:40:54   know she's got that sword [TS]

00:40:55   it's pretty awesome Glenn is here is [TS]

00:40:58   gonna have a baseball cap on though I [TS]

00:40:59   think he is not wearing a baseball cap [TS]

00:41:01   what's wrong can come on find that hat [TS]

00:41:04   daryl dixon I've got here Darrell Scott [TS]

00:41:06   is his gun i got Merle with his crazy [TS]

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00:41:32   door so I guess I've got seven months [TS]

00:41:34   worth right on my desk right now it's [TS]

00:41:35   pretty awesome i can make a little [TS]

00:41:37   dioramas of them i can keep them in the [TS]

00:41:39   box if I want to be cruel or i can get [TS]

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00:41:59   and thanks to eaglemoss for sponsoring [TS]

00:42:02   the incomparable alright we're going to [TS]

00:42:04   move on alphabetically to Luna colon new [TS]

00:42:07   moon by ian MacDonald it's a book is [TS]

00:42:11   booked a different book also set in [TS]

00:42:13   space it's on the moon just as you might [TS]

00:42:15   have got from the title which contains [TS]

00:42:17   the words luna and Moon just in case you [TS]

00:42:20   don't know it is the moon that we know [TS]

00:42:22   it is not a new moon it is a [TS]

00:42:24   match the other new moon yeah [TS]

00:42:27   yes it is our moon but it's got a its [TS]

00:42:29   got cities dug into the into the ground [TS]

00:42:33   and in the sides of craters and things [TS]

00:42:36   like that and what tricked-out moon and [TS]

00:42:39   so this book the idea the idea here is [TS]

00:42:41   that it's um it's a I it was sold to me [TS]

00:42:45   as sort of being like a game of thrones [TS]

00:42:47   and in the Hat on the moon where there [TS]

00:42:49   are powerful families vying for control [TS]

00:42:52   of various things on the moon it is a [TS]

00:42:56   that is what it is it is politics and [TS]

00:42:58   drama amidst the 5ki families and the [TS]

00:43:03   other people who live on the moon there [TS]

00:43:05   are minors and there are you know [TS]

00:43:08   transportation experts and there are [TS]

00:43:11   industrialists and things like that and [TS]

00:43:14   and then the core the core of the book [TS]

00:43:17   is that we we see the quarter family and [TS]

00:43:20   Adrianna Adrianna kurta is the founder [TS]

00:43:23   of this family and she's she's dying she [TS]

00:43:26   sort of has a self-made woman she came [TS]

00:43:30   to the moon with nothing and created [TS]

00:43:32   this sort of dynasty around her but she [TS]

00:43:34   has to buy with the problematic members [TS]

00:43:37   of the other families and there are many [TS]

00:43:39   different family members they all have [TS]

00:43:41   interesting quirks about their [TS]

00:43:42   personalities and they intermarry [TS]

00:43:44   because it's it that is a game of [TS]

00:43:46   thrones like element where there are [TS]

00:43:47   sort of marriages and contracts that are [TS]

00:43:50   done based on creating these kind of [TS]

00:43:54   connections between the two families and [TS]

00:43:56   yeah and it's on the moon so that makes [TS]

00:43:59   it science fiction because there's some [TS]

00:44:01   it's on the moon [TS]

00:44:03   yeah this one now it took me awhile to [TS]

00:44:06   get into this book I i tend to as you [TS]

00:44:09   may have guessed that based on what I [TS]

00:44:10   said about or up you i prefer a story [TS]

00:44:12   that's more of a story that has that you [TS]

00:44:14   know a beginning a middle and an end [TS]

00:44:15   sort of a tail because as I said history [TS]

00:44:18   books have always bored me and this did [TS]

00:44:20   read a little bit like a history book [TS]

00:44:22   eventually though I really got wrapped [TS]

00:44:24   up in the world I felt like it was [TS]

00:44:26   pretty elegant the characters and their [TS]

00:44:28   family politics where enough to draw [TS]

00:44:30   mean and keep me wanting to come back to [TS]

00:44:32   read it I could I could very easily put [TS]

00:44:34   it down and it did take me a while to [TS]

00:44:36   read the whole thing but I didn't drive [TS]

00:44:38   going back to it see Aurora so without [TS]

00:44:41   any spoilers that is what I have to say [TS]

00:44:42   about this book until the end [TS]

00:44:45   put that on the cover tried going back [TS]

00:44:47   to see dread free actually and Scott you [TS]

00:44:53   have a do you have a summation of your [TS]

00:44:54   feelings about this [TS]

00:44:56   this book is ian MacDonald I know is one [TS]

00:44:57   of your more her favorite writers you [TS]

00:44:59   not he is in fact and I feel like he has [TS]

00:45:02   been casting around for a way to make it [TS]

00:45:06   big in the literary world he tried to he [TS]

00:45:10   tried some young adult novels for a [TS]

00:45:12   while which i read it i hate young adult [TS]

00:45:14   novels but I read his and I kind of like [TS]

00:45:17   them but one of the things that draws me [TS]

00:45:19   into me and mcdonald is that he writes [TS]

00:45:22   complicated multi-layered stories and I [TS]

00:45:25   felt like this one was not as [TS]

00:45:27   complicated as I was hoping it would be [TS]

00:45:29   but I understood what he was going for [TS]

00:45:32   he is I think Jason you said it already [TS]

00:45:35   this is a game of he has described [TS]

00:45:37   themselves as game of domes or dallas on [TS]

00:45:40   the moon so I and I think he he lives up [TS]

00:45:45   to both of those things that he's [TS]

00:45:46   already sold the television rights so [TS]

00:45:47   clearly he's he's done his work here yes [TS]

00:45:50   and there's a sequel on the way there is [TS]

00:45:52   a sequel in merely a case just gonna be [TS]

00:45:55   a to book series i believe he decides [TS]

00:45:59   that if the second book sells a lot more [TS]

00:46:00   i'm sure they'll be a certain fuck yes [TS]

00:46:02   Luna wolf moon coming in September I'm [TS]

00:46:05   not kidding [TS]

00:46:06   oh no they're the wolves on the moon [TS]

00:46:09   anyway wherever it well there are the [TS]

00:46:11   world the house before [TS]

00:46:13   thank you so and I feel like you he's [TS]

00:46:17   written many novels and he's some of my [TS]

00:46:19   favorite novels of his have been the [TS]

00:46:21   Dervish house-to-house great great book [TS]

00:46:23   and I malafide ban Glenn malafide man [TS]

00:46:26   off i love that I remember yes and what [TS]

00:46:30   is it the river of God have you ever [TS]

00:46:32   gotten those two books i think our [TS]

00:46:36   the pinnacle of his craft I think he's a [TS]

00:46:38   fantastic writer i think that he wrote [TS]

00:46:41   this fantastically I feel like it could [TS]

00:46:44   have been more complicated lots of fish [TS]

00:46:48   that's just me [TS]

00:46:49   I like complicated but glad that the [TS]

00:46:53   more complicated part exactly wasn't [TS]

00:46:56   complicated enough for me could I would [TS]

00:46:57   have been talking about could have been [TS]

00:46:59   more complicated i'm sure he could do it [TS]

00:47:00   if you re river of God's you will [TS]

00:47:03   understand what happened to make it even [TS]

00:47:04   more complicated you throw in a couple [TS]

00:47:07   more genders how do you you could you [TS]

00:47:10   could make it a more complicated [TS]

00:47:12   that being said I really enjoyed it i [TS]

00:47:14   read it very quickly i want to read the [TS]

00:47:16   second one right now [TS]

00:47:19   so are we doing another spoiler horn for [TS]

00:47:21   this call ya say about the ok let's fire [TS]

00:47:23   off the spoiler horn the moon horn for [TS]

00:47:28   Luna colon new moon [TS]

00:47:33   for their colon you porn performer [TS]

00:47:36   Collins don't spoil your called Scott to [TS]

00:47:39   go ahead go ahead and finish your [TS]

00:47:40   thought Scott alsea the beginning in the [TS]

00:47:42   end he opens it with this you know kind [TS]

00:47:45   of punk kid doing this moon run thing [TS]

00:47:49   they do which seems insane where they [TS]

00:47:51   run without any protection across the [TS]

00:47:53   surface of the Moon and you know part of [TS]

00:47:56   the thing is it's a thrill and you might [TS]

00:47:57   die and it ends with a character who was [TS]

00:48:01   scared of doing that kind of doing that [TS]

00:48:03   save his own life and I think I'm very [TS]

00:48:04   nice balance [TS]

00:48:05   yeah I really I really did like that i [TS]

00:48:07   like the book ending of those two scenes [TS]

00:48:09   I thought it was very effective i really [TS]

00:48:10   like the beginning scene and then the [TS]

00:48:12   callback and you know he he spent so [TS]

00:48:14   much time talking about how you know his [TS]

00:48:15   father father of the character of the [TS]

00:48:17   beginning kind of drives the whole thing [TS]

00:48:19   and doesn't you seem to think his son is [TS]

00:48:22   living leading a frivolous life and is [TS]

00:48:24   kind of scared of doing this thing that [TS]

00:48:25   his son did and there's a lot like the [TS]

00:48:27   little undercurrent of jealousy and then [TS]

00:48:30   at the end he has to do the same thing [TS]

00:48:31   and you know goes off to his but [TS]

00:48:32   whatever secret Russian orbiting space [TS]

00:48:36   station and space [TS]

00:48:37   I'm glad you pointed that out because I [TS]

00:48:39   didn't even pick up on that I was just [TS]

00:48:42   so angry [TS]

00:48:45   fair enough it's another reaction that a [TS]

00:48:48   mist of everything i did have that [TS]

00:48:49   moment where i got to that at that point [TS]

00:48:51   the last chapter basically am I thought [TS]

00:48:53   to myself oh so this arm is going to be [TS]

00:48:56   more than one book then that was always [TS]

00:48:59   like I guess there's a lot I guess [TS]

00:49:00   and it makes sense actually that it's [TS]

00:49:02   too because that's sort of what it felt [TS]

00:49:03   like it i guess this is the fall of the [TS]

00:49:05   kurta family and that the next book will [TS]

00:49:08   be the revenge of the quarter family JR [TS]

00:49:10   has been shot in spate and Moon dallas [TS]

00:49:13   but he will be back [TS]

00:49:15   you know I didn't realize that he had [TS]

00:49:16   created he had said that thing about [TS]

00:49:18   Dallas because and which is interesting [TS]

00:49:21   because I did feel like that's what it [TS]

00:49:22   was [TS]

00:49:22   I mean at the end made me so mad because [TS]

00:49:25   it didn't feel like it sort of fit with [TS]

00:49:27   that so much it was like this [TS]

00:49:30   the book was like this lovely story [TS]

00:49:31   being played out like like a ribbon [TS]

00:49:33   flowing gently in the lunar breeze you [TS]

00:49:36   know bit by bit and learning things i'm [TS]

00:49:38   watching characters do stuff that I'm [TS]

00:49:39   interested in it didn't feel to me like [TS]

00:49:42   it was working up to anything much and [TS]

00:49:44   that [TS]

00:49:45   ok I was it took me a little while but [TS]

00:49:47   has finally in this world i was to [TS]

00:49:49   content to just exist in it and see who [TS]

00:49:51   did what and when and I really was [TS]

00:49:53   approaching it like a soap opera [TS]

00:49:55   you've got this huge cast of characters [TS]

00:49:56   spanning several generations they each [TS]

00:49:58   have their own storyline they all [TS]

00:50:00   overlap a little bit from time to time [TS]

00:50:01   but not in a particularly episodic way [TS]

00:50:04   and I was totally fine with that and [TS]

00:50:06   like a soap opera i would have been fine [TS]

00:50:08   with continuing to read about that in [TS]

00:50:10   perpetuity instead and a brief few dozen [TS]

00:50:13   pages at the end everything falls apart [TS]

00:50:15   the characters that I had spent all this [TS]

00:50:18   time getting to know many of them died [TS]

00:50:20   painful bloody horrible deaths and you [TS]

00:50:22   know that survived just barely did so [TS]

00:50:24   and have nothing but pain head of them [TS]

00:50:26   for at least a while I hated hits how [TS]

00:50:28   much I felt completely cheated and you [TS]

00:50:31   know maybe it was supposed to be some [TS]

00:50:32   sort of metaphor for how uncaring and [TS]

00:50:34   harsh the moon herself is but I just [TS]

00:50:36   didn't care [TS]

00:50:37   It was as if they had ended as the world [TS]

00:50:39   turns by bombing oakdale no thank you i [TS]

00:50:43   am I felt like I didn't know that [TS]

00:50:45   there's going to be a sequel I was [TS]

00:50:47   basically like you want to do a bit club [TS]

00:50:49   episode was like sure what you want me [TS]

00:50:50   to read and just like this is what [TS]

00:50:52   you're going to read and I was like okay [TS]

00:50:53   and i started reading and I felt like [TS]

00:50:55   the whole book was one long exposition [TS]

00:50:58   and I was like is this building to [TS]

00:51:01   anything it was just like just kind of [TS]

00:51:03   just kind of going along and yeah there [TS]

00:51:05   are things that happen and they're kind [TS]

00:51:07   of little bumps but they're all like [TS]

00:51:09   seem to be fairly little bumps and then [TS]

00:51:12   and then again yet the climax all at the [TS]

00:51:14   end and then it comes crashing and then [TS]

00:51:16   we're kind of left up there and there's [TS]

00:51:19   not really any resolution and so then I [TS]

00:51:21   started reading about it and was like oh [TS]

00:51:23   this is there's going to be a sequel and [TS]

00:51:24   I was like right so basically read the [TS]

00:51:26   first chapter of the next book over the [TS]

00:51:29   course of you know however long it took [TS]

00:51:31   me to read it it was like the end with [TS]

00:51:33   sweeps week if we go back to the soap [TS]

00:51:35   opera thing rates are going to leave [TS]

00:51:37   them wanting more and i don't think it [TS]

00:51:39   works that way i think i was so upset [TS]

00:51:40   about that just coming out of nowhere [TS]

00:51:41   that I'm not sure I honestly want to [TS]

00:51:43   read the second book I had a [TS]

00:51:46   a premonition that things we're not [TS]

00:51:48   going to end well when i started reading [TS]

00:51:50   this book of course of his other books [TS]

00:51:51   so yeah that might help [TS]

00:51:53   yeah I came into these books not ever [TS]

00:51:55   having read anything by these authors [TS]

00:51:57   not really knowing anything about them [TS]

00:51:58   and not knowing anything not knowing [TS]

00:52:00   thing one about either one of these [TS]

00:52:01   books so I was going in completely cold [TS]

00:52:03   when what do you think about Luna I felt [TS]

00:52:07   like it had a draft quality to it and it [TS]

00:52:11   and not the work wasn't finished and I [TS]

00:52:13   think I i agree that he's a he's a rich [TS]

00:52:15   characterization artists like he he [TS]

00:52:18   takes indefinitely uses because not [TS]

00:52:20   spare he doesn't use like three words to [TS]

00:52:22   describe something we're not doing that [TS]

00:52:23   but he actually built lots of pictures [TS]

00:52:25   in my head very rich interesting [TS]

00:52:27   characters many who had you know semi [TS]

00:52:30   believable interior life and when I got [TS]

00:52:31   to the soap opera feel of it I was like [TS]

00:52:33   okay this is all you need you don't need [TS]

00:52:34   3d needed two and a half D thing if you [TS]

00:52:37   try to create these kinds of mechanisms [TS]

00:52:38   and and you know I loved dune only the [TS]

00:52:41   first book not the others and doing is [TS]

00:52:43   very much space operate and I think [TS]

00:52:46   there are things in common you know one [TS]

00:52:48   trouble I think he has is when you read [TS]

00:52:50   a book about people trying to carve out [TS]

00:52:52   especially in dependence on the moon [TS]

00:52:54   which is spot one of many subplots [TS]

00:52:56   you're always going to compare with [TS]

00:52:57   moves a harsh mistress if you've read [TS]

00:52:59   that book it resonates and I feel like [TS]

00:53:01   this book I didn't borrow from it but I [TS]

00:53:04   feel like there are too many parallels [TS]

00:53:06   to it for me to ignore how much better [TS]

00:53:08   aspects were done I mean it's one thing [TS]

00:53:10   when it's totally different or it [TS]

00:53:12   recognizes some of you know that the [TS]

00:53:14   source mythology that a lot of people [TS]

00:53:16   have her sci-fi fans for way back or [TS]

00:53:19   been covered it later [TS]

00:53:21   I so that was an issue for me but I also [TS]

00:53:23   feel like I'm going along like okay I'm [TS]

00:53:25   starting to feel this world and now [TS]

00:53:26   there are werewolves I mean it was [TS]

00:53:27   little you know little boys like yeah [TS]

00:53:29   okay werewolves werewolves are exactly [TS]

00:53:31   like this except when they're not [TS]

00:53:33   they're super smart but then they make [TS]

00:53:34   stupid choices and there's phase of the [TS]

00:53:36   Moon the earth where I can explain why [TS]

00:53:37   now there's 30 of them now and now they [TS]

00:53:41   make that you know you're like oh ok or [TS]

00:53:43   somewhere later in the book is the [TS]

00:53:45   Mackenzies repay everything three times [TS]

00:53:46   and you're like alright shouldn't you [TS]

00:53:49   have work that theme and much earlier [TS]

00:53:51   and I the the whole weird subplot about [TS]

00:53:54   idea [TS]

00:53:56   being around rya be what's-her-name [TS]

00:53:59   after gonna Nanjiani but the daughter uh [TS]

00:54:02   it's aria area i'm sorry i don't think [TS]

00:54:05   everyone [TS]

00:54:05   Ariel being a you know an autoerotic [TS]

00:54:08   self manipulator then like I i'm making [TS]

00:54:11   a judgment but i'm going to say that [TS]

00:54:12   scene is the least erotic description of [TS]

00:54:14   auto-erotic behavior that I think we're [TS]

00:54:16   ready so the most clinical Minneapolis [TS]

00:54:18   to feel disgusted by didn't think so the [TS]

00:54:21   sex in the book there's a fair amount of [TS]

00:54:23   it in a drawer here like here's an [TS]

00:54:26   element they got me when all of a sudden [TS]

00:54:27   Lucas says Jorge will you marry me and [TS]

00:54:30   I'm like it's a very soap opera moment [TS]

00:54:32   like did not see that coming yeah like [TS]

00:54:33   it there's no motivation exploration is [TS]

00:54:36   all that I thought coming yeah i mean [TS]

00:54:38   you saw i could see that only the gears [TS]

00:54:40   being ground into position to make that [TS]

00:54:42   makes sense but there was no I'm married [TS]

00:54:46   that's very soap opera right is like [TS]

00:54:48   hires that hires the beautiful beautiful [TS]

00:54:50   musician to play the music and falls in [TS]

00:54:52   love with him I mean now and i agree [TS]

00:54:54   with that I feel like he has just rich [TS]

00:54:55   enough characterization that I expect [TS]

00:54:56   more from and just pour enough [TS]

00:54:58   characterization or just a little [TS]

00:54:59   supportive he pulls back enough from [TS]

00:55:01   creating fully three-dimensional [TS]

00:55:02   characters who live and breathe [TS]

00:55:04   I don't think he does it and I think [TS]

00:55:05   that's intentional i think Ariel the way [TS]

00:55:07   I think the way that her sex room is [TS]

00:55:11   portrayed is perfectly in keeping with [TS]

00:55:13   the way she's portrayed throughout she [TS]

00:55:14   is a she is a kind of the that's quite [TS]

00:55:18   the black sheep of the family but she's [TS]

00:55:19   like a lawyer and she's like a control [TS]

00:55:22   freak and she is portrayed as being kind [TS]

00:55:24   of this independent person she was she [TS]

00:55:27   doesn't need anyone or anything she's [TS]

00:55:29   got her own agenda she's separating as [TS]

00:55:31   much as she came from her family as much [TS]

00:55:33   as you can and then when you get to the [TS]

00:55:35   point where you're in her you don't go [TS]

00:55:36   into that room she is the one playwright [TS]

00:55:38   it's great it's not locked or anything [TS]

00:55:40   it's just doze I don't know it was it [TS]

00:55:41   was it was peculiar and yet I felt like [TS]

00:55:44   it was in keeping with her character [TS]

00:55:45   that she has you know she doesn't need [TS]

00:55:48   anyone she takes care of herself and [TS]

00:55:50   that's fine that's you know that's part [TS]

00:55:52   of the variety because we do see a lot [TS]

00:55:53   of variety and in sexuality with the [TS]

00:55:55   Wolves I i kinda like the Wolves because [TS]

00:55:57   the idea there is that they're a they're [TS]

00:55:59   a you know a different kind of human [TS]

00:56:02   community then existed before and they [TS]

00:56:04   use the you know the idea that they're [TS]

00:56:06   looking up at the Earth instead of the [TS]

00:56:08   Moon I thought that was kind of pole [TS]

00:56:09   dick and weird and interesting that they [TS]

00:56:12   had created this whole new culture of [TS]

00:56:14   like this you know this group culture [TS]

00:56:16   where they have the behavior when they [TS]

00:56:17   were the wolf mode and the this other [TS]

00:56:19   behavior when they weren't i-i-i thought [TS]

00:56:21   that was kind of interesting I i I'd [TS]

00:56:23   like it if they would have made it just [TS]

00:56:24   sort of be poetic and made it seem like [TS]

00:56:27   it was a choice that these people had [TS]

00:56:28   made to to be part of the sect of [TS]

00:56:31   society you know and I enjoyed the [TS]

00:56:33   different pronouns and stuff that was [TS]

00:56:34   that when I would've been okay with the [TS]

00:56:36   fact that they made it some sort of [TS]

00:56:38   biochemical reaction that when the earth [TS]

00:56:41   is full wave they become a completely [TS]

00:56:43   different person and even their little [TS]

00:56:45   AI things on their shoulders change [TS]

00:56:48   because they're just a completely [TS]

00:56:49   different person and I i don't think [TS]

00:56:51   that that was explained enough for me to [TS]

00:56:53   really get on board with that so now the [TS]

00:56:55   fact that wolf moon is the name of the [TS]

00:56:57   next book is another thing that makes me [TS]

00:56:58   kind of not want to read it and sellers [TS]

00:57:01   is enormous amount of setup that didn't [TS]

00:57:02   pay off and I realize that's the problem [TS]

00:57:04   reading first a 42 partner and it turns [TS]

00:57:05   out [TS]

00:57:06   yeah but i also i can say i feel like [TS]

00:57:08   you know the fact that Ariel it's not [TS]

00:57:10   that she is not inconsistent that she [TS]

00:57:12   has that she enjoys you know not having [TS]

00:57:14   a partner I just felt all the sex in the [TS]

00:57:16   book almost uniformly was a key and I [TS]

00:57:17   don't know what I've read plenty of [TS]

00:57:19   sci-fi which sex is not a keen as it's [TS]

00:57:21   like you know the the Russian guys its [TS]

00:57:24   moons man moon sextile to your friends [TS]

00:57:27   oh yeah moon said I'm not going to the [TS]

00:57:28   moon that we tell you that's cool isn't [TS]

00:57:30   it struck me is all the sex in the book [TS]

00:57:33   was very sort of matter of fact which I [TS]

00:57:36   I got to a point I kind of appreciated i [TS]

00:57:38   like the fact that sex is not such a big [TS]

00:57:40   deal here people just do it and they do [TS]

00:57:41   it with whomever they want and the same [TS]

00:57:44   thing with it with the genders you know [TS]

00:57:45   you had and in addition to the pronouns [TS]

00:57:47   for the Wolves you had a different [TS]

00:57:48   pronouns for somebody who I guest shows [TS]

00:57:50   neither gender and I I appreciated that [TS]

00:57:52   I always like it when future societies [TS]

00:57:55   don't have the same big hang-ups about [TS]

00:57:57   stuff that we do now [TS]

00:57:59   that's kind of a nice feature thing but [TS]

00:58:01   I do agree that because of that the sex [TS]

00:58:04   didn't feel sexy but I feel like that [TS]

00:58:06   was on purpose and I was alright with it [TS]

00:58:08   let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

00:58:09   one of our sponsors this week it's [TS]

00:58:10   Harry's now [TS]

00:58:12   good things come in sets of 3 i'm going [TS]

00:58:14   to do some numerology for you march the [TS]

00:58:16   third month of the year and also our [TS]

00:58:19   friends at Harry's have had three years [TS]

00:58:21   in business bringing [TS]

00:58:23   great shaving stuff to people like you [TS]

00:58:26   if you're new to harry's I've got a [TS]

00:58:27   special deal for you to try three [TS]

00:58:28   there's that number again perhaps [TS]

00:58:31   commander data is trying to tell us [TS]

00:58:32   something [TS]

00:58:33   apparently started reference no all [TS]

00:58:36   right anyway perhaps you would like to [TS]

00:58:37   try three of these expertly crafted [TS]

00:58:40   five-blade German razors [TS]

00:58:42   that's right it's 3+2 that's how many [TS]

00:58:44   blades there are a handle and shave [TS]

00:58:46   cream for ten bucks with the offer code [TS]

00:58:49   smell my last name [TS]

00:58:51   now i've been using Harry's shaving [TS]

00:58:53   stuff for a while now i really like it I [TS]

00:58:55   i use the area's razor those blades are [TS]

00:58:58   excellent i kinda laughed at the idea of [TS]

00:59:00   a five blade razor but you know what the [TS]

00:59:02   shave is amazing i just tried the newest [TS]

00:59:05   Harry's handle and razor the other day [TS]

00:59:08   you know getting one of those fresh [TS]

00:59:10   razor blades so good to such a good job [TS]

00:59:12   and of course i really like the shave [TS]

00:59:14   cream I can't stop talking about it just [TS]

00:59:16   like minty smell I'm very sensitive to [TS]

00:59:18   strong smells and it doesn't get in my [TS]

00:59:20   face it's on my face but it's not in my [TS]

00:59:22   face all day with the smell its pleasant [TS]

00:59:24   when I'm shaving and then it's gone [TS]

00:59:26   I wash it off it's very nice so what [TS]

00:59:29   makes very special the only shaving [TS]

00:59:30   company that's got amazing quality and [TS]

00:59:32   low prices they have the high-quality [TS]

00:59:34   german-engineered they popped factory [TS]

00:59:36   five blade cartridges like I said super [TS]

00:59:39   close shave no cuts no burns quality [TS]

00:59:41   guaranteed to give you a refund if [TS]

00:59:43   you're not happy with the product and [TS]

00:59:44   then the prices these are factory direct [TS]

00:59:46   prices there's no middleman shipped [TS]

00:59:48   right to your door you don't have to go [TS]

00:59:49   down to the drugstore and ask them to [TS]

00:59:51   unlock something and they sell their [TS]

00:59:53   blades a half the price of the leading [TS]

00:59:55   brand because of this system that [TS]

00:59:57   they've got over a million people have [TS]

00:59:59   already [TS]

00:59:59   already [TS]

01:00:00   in the switch thousands more moving [TS]

01:00:01   every day to harry's I've done it and [TS]

01:00:04   I'm very happy about the results so why [TS]

01:00:06   pay $32 for an eight pack of blades you [TS]

01:00:08   can get them for half the price of [TS]

01:00:09   Harry's dot-com the starter set is a [TS]

01:00:12   great deal [TS]

01:00:12   it's $15 you get a razor moisturizing [TS]

01:00:15   shave cream and three razor blades and [TS]

01:00:17   Harry's doesn't like to discount the [TS]

01:00:19   prices are already pretty low but [TS]

01:00:21   there's a special offer if you're trying [TS]

01:00:23   Harry's for the first time five dollars [TS]

01:00:24   off your first order [TS]

01:00:26   use promo code smell stop overpaying for [TS]

01:00:29   a great shape go to Harry's dot-com [TS]

01:00:30   right now [TS]

01:00:31   har ry s.com and use code smell at [TS]

01:00:34   checkout thank you to harry's for [TS]

01:00:36   sponsoring being comfortable i really [TS]

01:00:38   appreciated the way that this story [TS]

01:00:41   explores class in that we get marina who [TS]

01:00:44   when we meet her is basically down to [TS]

01:00:46   nothing and she's taking she's you know [TS]

01:00:48   she's a a talented trained person who's [TS]

01:00:51   come to the moon to seek her fortune and [TS]

01:00:53   she's basically destitute and can't [TS]

01:00:56   breathe deeply because she is because [TS]

01:00:59   oxygen is regulated on the moon and [TS]

01:01:01   you're basically charged for oxygen they [TS]

01:01:03   do not have Obamacare on the moon is [TS]

01:01:05   what I'm saying yeah and and I think [TS]

01:01:08   seeing the start you know yes you can [TS]

01:01:11   set up that juxtaposition of the reishi [TS]

01:01:12   ends up getting a job with the with [TS]

01:01:14   corte helio and they are not mining [TS]

01:01:16   helium on the moon and she learns about [TS]

01:01:18   the family and gets to know the family [TS]

01:01:20   and all of that but she's our way in but [TS]

01:01:22   because we meet her when she is [TS]

01:01:24   desperate and destitute I feel like [TS]

01:01:26   that's good [TS]

01:01:27   it colors everything else we see about [TS]

01:01:30   the society knowing that there are very [TS]

01:01:32   poor people at the bottom of the of the [TS]

01:01:34   ladder on in moon society and then there [TS]

01:01:37   are these these super rich families and [TS]

01:01:40   i liked i like that i thought that was a [TS]

01:01:42   really nice touch to have everybody else [TS]

01:01:44   get short of breath and thirsty during [TS]

01:01:46   this first chapters we sure did I [TS]

01:01:48   thought the four elementals part was [TS]

01:01:50   very clever and I think you're ready [TS]

01:01:51   showed you this skate like the scarcity [TS]

01:01:53   and what people actually striving for [TS]

01:01:55   but they did give her a girlfriend the [TS]

01:01:57   refrigerator right Blake he's feeling [TS]

01:01:59   ill she can't provide for him and he's [TS]

01:02:01   gone a lot of the break she comes back [TS]

01:02:02   with every skin cell has been harvested [TS]

01:02:04   because that's what we do in the moon [TS]

01:02:06   I'm like girlfriend refrigerator you [TS]

01:02:08   know and then Blake has mentioned a [TS]

01:02:09   couple other times I don't think I don't [TS]

01:02:11   think so that was that was not fringing [TS]

01:02:12   because [TS]

01:02:13   I don't think that his death actually [TS]

01:02:14   motivated her to do anything no it was [TS]

01:02:16   just sad just but I could was too [TS]

01:02:18   convenient for me that it's like you [TS]

01:02:20   know somebody dies well you know it [TS]

01:02:21   didn't motivate her you're right it [TS]

01:02:22   wasn't motivation so wasn't fringing it [TS]

01:02:24   was something something equally he was [TS]

01:02:26   sort of thrown away and I thought [TS]

01:02:28   actually marina i'm going to say I think [TS]

01:02:29   she was my favorite character I felt she [TS]

01:02:31   was actually very well developed from [TS]

01:02:33   not being in that higher strata and kind [TS]

01:02:36   of being abilities and then accidentally [TS]

01:02:38   like and plausibly and accidentally you [TS]

01:02:41   know saving life is over and over and [TS]

01:02:43   being in the right spot at the right [TS]

01:02:44   time like that was to me a very great [TS]

01:02:48   science-fiction roll someone who just [TS]

01:02:50   happens to eke out the right moment the [TS]

01:02:51   right place that's such a trope and I [TS]

01:02:54   felt that she is a character was my was [TS]

01:02:55   my favorite because of that we said [TS]

01:02:57   Dallas but i'm going to say the [TS]

01:02:59   godfather and that's why I like Adriana [TS]

01:03:01   court because we get her whole story of [TS]

01:03:04   how she goes from Brazil to the moon and [TS]

01:03:07   has these you know and found this [TS]

01:03:09   company with her wits and like a whole [TS]

01:03:12   like ploy that she and her husband set [TS]

01:03:14   up in order to get this and get around [TS]

01:03:17   the other families who don't want to let [TS]

01:03:18   her have it and you know she built this [TS]

01:03:20   thing and she's going to do a demo and [TS]

01:03:22   they blow it up but she's secretly done [TS]

01:03:23   a back-up plan and she's and she just [TS]

01:03:26   sit there instead and she gets all the [TS]

01:03:28   money and creates a thing and I I and [TS]

01:03:30   and then she's dying so we get this [TS]

01:03:32   story and it's a great rise to power its [TS]

01:03:34   like their father to basically it's her [TS]

01:03:36   rise to power and then we're also seeing [TS]

01:03:38   that it's all spinning out of control [TS]

01:03:39   and so much of of this effort and all [TS]

01:03:43   these things she's created are basically [TS]

01:03:46   destroyed in the last couple of chapters [TS]

01:03:47   of the book and I i really like that I [TS]

01:03:51   like that that that epic kind of rise [TS]

01:03:53   and fall of of her story and I mean a [TS]

01:03:57   little bit like Aurora she's so [TS]

01:04:01   impressive that it does make you feel [TS]

01:04:03   like the next generation really some [TS]

01:04:05   living up to her which i think is [TS]

01:04:07   interesting and they are they're all [TS]

01:04:09   interesting characters but they there is [TS]

01:04:10   that sense of like the family dynasty [TS]

01:04:12   where you've got this exalted leader [TS]

01:04:13   okay you know the the elder and and then [TS]

01:04:17   everybody else is trying very hard to [TS]

01:04:19   live up to what you know what she wants [TS]

01:04:21   to do and they can't but they could told [TS]

01:04:24   the story he could hold the story with [TS]

01:04:25   those three chapters [TS]

01:04:26   that are entirely her telling her [TS]

01:04:27   history that given the start of the book [TS]

01:04:29   and we're very doll and God knows to be [TS]

01:04:31   drafted right the first time around but [TS]

01:04:33   instead by giving us a lot of stuff and [TS]

01:04:35   then taking us back understanding the [TS]

01:04:36   struggle i mean is it's rich it's also [TS]

01:04:39   her last confession essentially right [TS]

01:04:41   because she's telling that story to the [TS]

01:04:42   spoon [TS]

01:04:44   none whatever she is right when using [TS]

01:04:47   this saloon sisters and so it's it's her [TS]

01:04:51   like confession of her life story to the [TS]

01:04:53   person who is going to you know she's [TS]

01:04:55   telling it to is this religious figure [TS]

01:04:58   that she's funding their order and in [TS]

01:05:01   return she gets to confess her sins to [TS]

01:05:03   and tell her life story unless stop [TS]

01:05:06   Scott I'm coming with you I I think [TS]

01:05:07   McDonald's a wonderful writer I I i [TS]

01:05:11   wouldn't say this was as good as the [TS]

01:05:14   Dervish house but I did see it since [TS]

01:05:17   when i was reading it like as a stylist [TS]

01:05:19   I just I think he's I think he's really [TS]

01:05:21   great i think he's really great at the [TS]

01:05:22   writing it does feel a little engineered [TS]

01:05:25   i would say that it does feel like what [TS]

01:05:27   if I wrote a potboiler right could I [TS]

01:05:29   could I get TV money if I wrote a [TS]

01:05:31   potboiler and but it's a good i think [TS]

01:05:33   it's a good potboiler but it's a [TS]

01:05:34   potboiler it is it is he slide feel like [TS]

01:05:36   yeah he's slumming a little bit but [TS]

01:05:38   maybe that's okay [TS]

01:05:39   it'sit's there's a cool i think there's [TS]

01:05:41   a lot of cool stuff a lot of interesting [TS]

01:05:42   images that you know the the little girl [TS]

01:05:45   Luna who's wandering around and she's in [TS]

01:05:47   the little secret garden and all thanked [TS]

01:05:50   yeah I love include you know and I and I [TS]

01:05:52   like the various sexuality and and some [TS]

01:05:55   of the characters i like that i like the [TS]

01:05:57   character who I don't know I assume [TS]

01:05:59   everybody knows this but the the the [TS]

01:06:01   character who runs out on his family and [TS]

01:06:04   and without his ID and um and it's like [TS]

01:06:07   sleeping on people's couches for half [TS]

01:06:08   the book latino and and creating fashion [TS]

01:06:12   trends wherever he goes like maybe been [TS]

01:06:14   faking I just love anything that was so [TS]

01:06:17   unexpected and I thought makes all this [TS]

01:06:19   there's something funny here whatever [TS]

01:06:21   it's like no he's just good Baker it's [TS]

01:06:23   sort of sweet and that was a really [TS]

01:06:24   great bit like everybody's wearing [TS]

01:06:26   orange first he wears the orange like [TS]

01:06:28   suit i think the suit liner for the over [TS]

01:06:30   hot pics suit liner because that's what [TS]

01:06:32   he was wearing but he keeps wearing it [TS]

01:06:34   and then people start wearing thinking [TS]

01:06:36   is this thing maybe I need to do it and [TS]

01:06:37   throughout the book that comment like ya [TS]

01:06:39   wear this trend come from [TS]

01:06:40   and then later like hey remember that [TS]

01:06:41   trend but it's not a friend anymore [TS]

01:06:43   right [TS]

01:06:44   that was that I thought that was kind of [TS]

01:06:45   brilliant plus yes she bakes too so that [TS]

01:06:47   was a really nice little strange bit in [TS]

01:06:49   this book but I did like the earth is [TS]

01:06:51   being redeemed by the moon like this is [TS]

01:06:53   actually a unique idea that the fact [TS]

01:06:54   that he had helium-3 isotope that they [TS]

01:06:56   can recover from the regular and that [TS]

01:06:59   they were able to be there all the [TS]

01:07:01   remaining materials they were about the [TS]

01:07:03   h3 was the UH the thing that Adriana had [TS]

01:07:06   figured out i mean that's fascinating [TS]

01:07:08   earth is sort of not is dying is [TS]

01:07:10   overpopulated things are bad when you I [TS]

01:07:12   don't can't think of another book in [TS]

01:07:14   which the moon read teams the earth is [TS]

01:07:16   redeemed by the moon so this there's [TS]

01:07:18   this symbiosis I even as people on the [TS]

01:07:21   moon they're sort of carving out not a [TS]

01:07:24   society for its own right and there is [TS]

01:07:25   an aspect of being stranded again [TS]

01:07:27   there's the two-year period which is I [TS]

01:07:29   think very well portrayed after that you [TS]

01:07:30   have too much calcium loss of your bones [TS]

01:07:33   to change you can't go back till you're [TS]

01:07:34   doomed you're exiled on this prison ship [TS]

01:07:36   right or or whatever you want to think [TS]

01:07:38   of it as and for some people it's always [TS]

01:07:40   difficult and marinas decision before [TS]

01:07:42   everything goes to hell that she's like [TS]

01:07:44   this is too much i'm scared all the time [TS]

01:07:45   i'm going back [TS]

01:07:46   that's a fascinating moment as well yeah [TS]

01:07:48   I i hate to hate to agree with Glenn but [TS]

01:07:51   let's go [TS]

01:07:54   she was my favorite character as well [TS]

01:07:56   and I think about that it was simply [TS]

01:07:57   because she was are you know a big the [TS]

01:08:01   character that we were able to look [TS]

01:08:02   through her eyes in order to to get a [TS]

01:08:05   handle on what's going on on the moon [TS]

01:08:07   I mean we we saw the the quarter family [TS]

01:08:09   before she saw the quarter family so it [TS]

01:08:11   wasn't like she's our only way in but [TS]

01:08:13   her reactions to everybody and their [TS]

01:08:16   reactions to her I think helped humanize [TS]

01:08:18   the book a little bit for me and made [TS]

01:08:20   these characters a little bit more a [TS]

01:08:22   little bit more whole it really did have [TS]

01:08:24   that soap opera feel I was interested in [TS]

01:08:27   in Adriana corte as the matriarch of the [TS]

01:08:31   family she reminded me a little bit of [TS]

01:08:33   like listen to wahlstrom s the world [TS]

01:08:35   turns those kind of how I pictured her [TS]

01:08:36   and and I take I did notice [TS]

01:08:40   yes that as soon as she was gone from [TS]

01:08:42   the picture that was when everything [TS]

01:08:43   toppled and she was clearly the glue [TS]

01:08:45   that was holding all of this together [TS]

01:08:47   but that made me sad because I wanted to [TS]

01:08:50   think that the society could survive at [TS]

01:08:52   least this family could survive with [TS]

01:08:53   and a society without her so well i was [TS]

01:08:57   interested in her story it was clear [TS]

01:08:59   that she wasn't going to be around at [TS]

01:09:00   the end of the book so i didn't get [TS]

01:09:02   terribly invested in her i think the [TS]

01:09:04   casinos the other character that I had [TS]

01:09:06   the most fun watching I didn't like him [TS]

01:09:09   at all at first he just seemed like this [TS]

01:09:11   shallow obnoxious kid running out but i [TS]

01:09:14   enjoyed watching him grow up the way you [TS]

01:09:16   don't enjoy watching characters grow up [TS]

01:09:18   on soap operas over many years sometimes [TS]

01:09:19   the actor changes but it's the same [TS]

01:09:21   characters learning how to be a better [TS]

01:09:23   or worse person and and i found that fun [TS]

01:09:25   to watch a play out see that was Luna [TS]

01:09:28   for me i am I found all of the adults [TS]

01:09:33   were so boring like they were they were [TS]

01:09:37   just boring they were i'm going to [TS]

01:09:39   protect my dynasty and bloggers just [TS]

01:09:42   like I you're awful stop like you've had [TS]

01:09:45   no concerns in your life you know [TS]

01:09:47   whatever and so yeah we have these two [TS]

01:09:49   characters i'm going to say it's Luna [TS]

01:09:50   because like she just hopped around the [TS]

01:09:52   garden whatever she wants to do and [TS]

01:09:55   they're like yeah she's got hidey-holes [TS]

01:09:57   and I know a lot of them but I don't [TS]

01:09:58   know all of them and everyone needs to [TS]

01:10:00   have their secrets and I'm like yes I [TS]

01:10:02   love this and you know like the adults [TS]

01:10:04   are just like oh yeah we're gonna [TS]

01:10:05   protect our money in our land and I was [TS]

01:10:07   like good for you you you go do that [TS]

01:10:10   yeah I was the opposite i was so bored [TS]

01:10:12   by all of the lunacy inside [TS]

01:10:14   I don't care about this little kid [TS]

01:10:16   running around please go back to the [TS]

01:10:17   family politics I want to find out [TS]

01:10:18   what's going to happen with you know but [TS]

01:10:20   that the big court case or the big you [TS]

01:10:22   know fight that's coming up or whatever [TS]

01:10:24   it is I i like the grown-ups i guess i'm [TS]

01:10:26   an old fuddy-duddy it was a good concept [TS]

01:10:28   that everything on the moon there's no [TS]

01:10:30   criminal law that is a very clever can [TS]

01:10:32   and also having just been rewatching the [TS]

01:10:35   expanse in which everything in space is [TS]

01:10:37   basically run by companies [TS]

01:10:38   I mean they're all corporations running [TS]

01:10:40   the space station that people have [TS]

01:10:41   essentially no civil rights all their [TS]

01:10:43   rights are contractual basis like this [TS]

01:10:45   seems plausible cause i'm watching it [TS]

01:10:46   play out in different ways like it's [TS]

01:10:48   very possible to say that there's no [TS]

01:10:49   crime was only compensation negotiation [TS]

01:10:52   and enforcement is if you break a [TS]

01:10:53   contract [TS]

01:10:54   everyone goes against you in that makes [TS]

01:10:56   sense but that's part of why my problem [TS]

01:10:58   with the end of the end of Luna is not [TS]

01:11:00   just letting it kind of changes nature [TS]

01:11:02   entirely although again I do like the [TS]

01:11:04   fact that the shark eyes [TS]

01:11:06   the foundations of our Empire collapsed [TS]

01:11:08   like it just her power is keeping all [TS]

01:11:10   things together and kaboom but is that [TS]

01:11:12   all the contractual breaking I'm like [TS]

01:11:14   I'm really going but wherever it [TS]

01:11:15   according to the court of no longer this [TS]

01:11:18   is this is an acceptable dollars into a [TS]

01:11:19   big fight the textbook I i wanted to [TS]

01:11:22   mention that there's another extended I [TS]

01:11:24   that this is a much funnier book and the [TS]

01:11:27   other book right this is this is humor [TS]

01:11:29   here this isn't it not only is working [TS]

01:11:31   here is this is lucas inos story funny [TS]

01:11:34   and I do agree i mean this is a classic [TS]

01:11:36   generational I mean any kind of [TS]

01:11:38   generational novel or TV series or movie [TS]

01:11:40   is going to have this where it's like [TS]

01:11:41   the elders and their disappointed in the [TS]

01:11:44   next generation who is trying to live up [TS]

01:11:45   to their standards and then you got the [TS]

01:11:47   younger generation which in many ways is [TS]

01:11:48   the most interesting generation because [TS]

01:11:50   they don't have they been corrupted baby [TS]

01:11:52   by the wealth but they also don't have [TS]

01:11:54   that pressure that the that the second [TS]

01:11:57   generation has and you see that play [TS]

01:11:58   here but but some of the jokes are so [TS]

01:12:01   timed and and and and they go off it [TS]

01:12:06   takes time for them to play out and when [TS]

01:12:08   they play out it's great so that the one [TS]

01:12:10   of the ones that i really liked is is [TS]

01:12:12   again ariel is introduced and and I [TS]

01:12:16   thought it was this incredibly annoying [TS]

01:12:18   writers tick that he keeps describing [TS]

01:12:21   her also everybody's going fifties I [TS]

01:12:24   think entire that there's no you which I [TS]

01:12:26   thought was funny but she's like Audrey [TS]

01:12:28   Hepburn she's got a long thing but it [TS]

01:12:30   like a vaping thing but it's like a long [TS]

01:12:32   cigarette holder like for breakfast at [TS]

01:12:34   tiffany's or something like that and [TS]

01:12:35   they keep describing he keeps describing [TS]

01:12:37   her bringing it out and extending it and [TS]

01:12:39   all the stuff and and back when i was [TS]

01:12:41   editing fiction as an amateur in in the [TS]

01:12:43   nineties i would see stuff like that and [TS]

01:12:46   be like you just you have nothing to say [TS]

01:12:47   so you're describing the mechanisms of [TS]

01:12:49   things like smoking and that's because [TS]

01:12:51   you have nothing to say you've run out [TS]

01:12:52   of things to say so i'm thinking like [TS]

01:12:53   why why you taking time describing that [TS]

01:12:56   and then later that that that same [TS]

01:12:59   retractable thing is used as a weapon [TS]

01:13:01   that is rammed into somebody's what head [TS]

01:13:04   yeah it's like we're seeing at the whole [TS]

01:13:06   book it's we're seeing it we're seeing [TS]

01:13:08   it we're seeing it is funny too low and [TS]

01:13:10   that was the moment I was like alright [TS]

01:13:11   you got me good job right it's like you [TS]

01:13:14   put that in there [TS]

01:13:15   we were all aware of it yes she's got [TS]

01:13:16   the little extendable thing and and then [TS]

01:13:19   it's used as a murder weapon basically [TS]

01:13:21   or a self-defense weapon and and I [TS]

01:13:24   believe she then says I got to get [TS]

01:13:26   another one of those to help and ok that [TS]

01:13:28   was and I really appreciated that he he [TS]

01:13:31   played that on me and it just kind of [TS]

01:13:32   bug me and I'm like why are we seeing [TS]

01:13:34   this and then there's a payoff actual [TS]

01:13:36   payoff was like yes that was really [TS]

01:13:38   funny that that you use that as the as a [TS]

01:13:40   weapon here so I don't know is also the [TS]

01:13:42   time bombs planted which I thought if he [TS]

01:13:45   triggered it was me a one-book novel I [TS]

01:13:47   don't know how I would've ended like [TS]

01:13:48   this the thing of the Mackenzies that [TS]

01:13:50   Carlos Adriana's husband had planted a [TS]

01:13:52   essentially mutating virus in the heart [TS]

01:13:54   of the Mackenzies foundry operation the [TS]

01:13:56   crucible that could go on that that she [TS]

01:13:58   gave her younger so slightly younger son [TS]

01:14:01   Lucas has the code and he could trigger [TS]

01:14:02   at any moment and so much that's not our [TS]

01:14:05   ways like okay you have everyone's been [TS]

01:14:07   killed and die but i'm not gonna blow [TS]

01:14:08   the crystal not yet because I made it [TS]

01:14:10   and so we have this going to be another [TS]

01:14:11   book [TS]

01:14:12   yeah there's gonna be a good boo you [TS]

01:14:14   know here's the thing it's like when you [TS]

01:14:16   see the dog in the movie you know the [TS]

01:14:18   dogs gonna die right they working for [TS]

01:14:20   the drivers in there they planted it [TS]

01:14:21   there is no way that crystal is not [TS]

01:14:23   going to be blown up in the next book [TS]

01:14:25   for some reason somehow we haven't [TS]

01:14:27   talked about the psychic computers yet [TS]

01:14:29   the clairvoyant computer yeah [TS]

01:14:32   what the why old ones of the wise ones [TS]

01:14:35   or whatever they are ya government seems [TS]

01:14:36   to have tapped into it's like we [TS]

01:14:38   programmed for him so we know we're back [TS]

01:14:40   door in there [TS]

01:14:41   yes so where they ever actually [TS]

01:14:42   predicting anything or was it all just [TS]

01:14:44   so that was planted by the as a mower [TS]

01:14:47   whatever-it-is family like I didn't [TS]

01:14:50   quite get that at the end [TS]

01:14:51   yeah i'm not sure i'm not sure i know [TS]

01:14:53   either but i really like that idea that [TS]

01:14:55   there's the secret cabal also and [TS]

01:14:57   there's the Eagle who's in charge of the [TS]

01:14:58   Moon and and they've got the innovative [TS]

01:15:00   secrets and Oh Ariel is going to be very [TS]

01:15:02   important which I I expect I expect [TS]

01:15:05   ariel is going to be I mean I of reading [TS]

01:15:07   it I was thinking well this is going to [TS]

01:15:08   pay off and of course there's going to [TS]

01:15:09   be another book into pay it off but that [TS]

01:15:12   was my thought was like when they do the [TS]

01:15:13   prophecy that basically like we see the [TS]

01:15:15   future and your important in all of the [TS]

01:15:17   possible futures i suspect that will [TS]

01:15:19   come to pass that she she's like hiding [TS]

01:15:21   away at the end of the book up where [TS]

01:15:25   marina was at the beginning of the book [TS]

01:15:28   but she's too [TS]

01:15:29   we're gonna come back and there's a bit [TS]

01:15:30   at the end where the Eagles the moon [TS]

01:15:31   where are you know I is it was with her [TS]

01:15:34   area or someone with him and that and [TS]

01:15:36   he's basically like me it's like [TS]

01:15:39   everyone knew his husband was control [TS]

01:15:41   was pulling the strings it's like no we [TS]

01:15:43   didn't [TS]

01:15:44   ok alright i guess that's the twist they [TS]

01:15:46   did they did actually point to that [TS]

01:15:48   earlier on but it was only once i [TS]

01:15:49   believe in oh yeah kind of in passing [TS]

01:15:51   didn't wanna hang too much on it there's [TS]

01:15:53   a lot here this is a dense this is a [TS]

01:15:55   dense book there are a lot of characters [TS]

01:15:56   i didn't somebody comment before we did [TS]

01:15:58   this about like any book where there's a [TS]

01:16:00   list of characters at the beginning [TS]

01:16:02   which I don't let you know I don't read [TS]

01:16:03   the maps I ready to those are reference [TS]

01:16:06   when you're reading like who is this you [TS]

01:16:07   can look it up and I don't but I [TS]

01:16:09   occasionally looking at map it was me i [TS]

01:16:12   was cracking up because I was like okay [TS]

01:16:13   I'm opening the book and they're like [TS]

01:16:15   seven pages of families and names and [TS]

01:16:18   there's a map and I was like alright but [TS]

01:16:20   in the end it was like a Russian but you [TS]

01:16:22   don't really need it you know almost I [TS]

01:16:24   almost didn't use it at all but every [TS]

01:16:26   once in a while I would put back just to [TS]

01:16:27   make sure [TS]

01:16:28   actually I think I might use the [TS]

01:16:29   glossary a little bit much to make sure [TS]

01:16:31   I knew the the terms but I was I was [TS]

01:16:34   actually able to keep track of the [TS]

01:16:35   characters and their names and stuff and [TS]

01:16:38   I mean we keep talking about Ariel [TS]

01:16:40   actually she was one of the characters [TS]

01:16:41   that I like the best night [TS]

01:16:43   I'm always drawn to a woman in a book [TS]

01:16:46   who really as we said just doesn't seem [TS]

01:16:49   to need anybody else who is it is going [TS]

01:16:51   her own way and I enjoyed that even when [TS]

01:16:53   I didn't particularly enjoy her attitude [TS]

01:16:56   or you know what exactly what she was [TS]

01:16:58   doing was still sort of liked the fact [TS]

01:16:59   of her and the other one that I quite [TS]

01:17:01   liked in the book who didn't have a very [TS]

01:17:03   big part was a Luca asthma who is Rafa's [TS]

01:17:06   second wife the one that was actually in [TS]

01:17:08   love with and I love the fact that they [TS]

01:17:12   enjoy the beginning of the book when she [TS]

01:17:14   still living with the quarters they [TS]

01:17:16   somewhat sideways accuse her of sending [TS]

01:17:19   in the fly that's supposed to be the you [TS]

01:17:21   know what the US and flied us and and [TS]

01:17:25   because of that she's like I love you [TS]

01:17:26   and I want to be here with our daughter [TS]

01:17:28   but i am not trusted and I just I feel [TS]

01:17:31   like I can't stay so she goes away and [TS]

01:17:33   it's this tragic thing where they [TS]

01:17:34   actually do want to be together and they [TS]

01:17:36   want to see each other but she can't and [TS]

01:17:39   and I thought that was really cool [TS]

01:17:40   yeah it's a interesting book [TS]

01:17:42   I liked I'll i definitely liked it more [TS]

01:17:45   than Aurora yes I you know I i enjoyed [TS]

01:17:48   reading it i will i will read the next [TS]

01:17:50   to the the continuation of it I i really [TS]

01:17:54   enjoyed the world and how was portrayed [TS]

01:17:55   and the writing in it i really enjoyed [TS]

01:17:58   too so you know I didn't look at the map [TS]

01:18:01   but I i did you know or the glossary but [TS]

01:18:05   it was a no it was not necessary for my [TS]

01:18:07   enjoyment i looked at the map for a [TS]

01:18:09   second realized it wasn't going to help [TS]

01:18:11   me at all and then it's a moon that [TS]

01:18:12   whatever moon is on the moon [TS]

01:18:15   what do you need to know what will tell [TS]

01:18:16   me how long it takes to get from point A [TS]

01:18:18   to point B that's good enough for me [TS]

01:18:20   I gotta letters one little backstory [TS]

01:18:22   thing with the marina i love that she [TS]

01:18:23   grew up in this totally with household [TS]

01:18:25   and whatever I just like that her [TS]

01:18:27   familiar her little la AI think her [TS]

01:18:29   shoulders called heavy telly looks like [TS]

01:18:32   an orca yeah maybe the Orca that is [TS]

01:18:35   that's his extrapolation of smartphones [TS]

01:18:37   and on the moon is that there are these [TS]

01:18:39   little avatars that live on your on your [TS]

01:18:42   shoulder and everybody sees them sort of [TS]

01:18:44   content consensually but then you go to [TS]

01:18:47   certain meetings and you have to leave [TS]

01:18:48   your stuff behind and turn it all off I [TS]

01:18:51   want one of those like I can't wait for [TS]

01:18:53   that future to get here i think that [TS]

01:18:54   would be fantastic to get a little uh [TS]

01:18:56   you could do a little creature that sits [TS]

01:18:57   on your yeah you don't have to carry [TS]

01:18:59   anything around and then you have this [TS]

01:19:01   cute little creature that you can buy [TS]

01:19:03   different skins for and you can change [TS]

01:19:04   it you can make it look like an orca or [TS]

01:19:06   a little silver ball with wings or [TS]

01:19:08   whatever you want i want that I hope [TS]

01:19:10   they're easier to keep a lifetime [TS]

01:19:12   tamagushi ever was [TS]

01:19:13   good point muscat were you surprised by [TS]

01:19:16   our reactions to these books i am never [TS]

01:19:19   surprised but looks great i'm not [TS]

01:19:22   surprised you said that [TS]

01:19:23   well I'm and so I think that one truth [TS]

01:19:27   that I hold very dearly is that all [TS]

01:19:30   opinions are subjective so I think these [TS]

01:19:32   books are very good i am more than open [TS]

01:19:35   to the fact that's just my opinion and [TS]

01:19:37   that other people comment things in [TS]

01:19:39   different ways and that is fine as well [TS]

01:19:40   and I learn more hearing about other [TS]

01:19:43   people talk about the books and their [TS]

01:19:45   experiences which are very different [TS]

01:19:46   than mine and it makes me enjoy the book [TS]

01:19:48   all the more so I say I appreciate it [TS]

01:19:51   all and I'm sorry that you had to read [TS]

01:19:52   Aurora but I selected [TS]

01:19:55   all right before we go I would like to [TS]

01:19:57   very quickly ask if you have any other [TS]

01:20:00   books that you've read recently that you [TS]

01:20:03   would like to mention now would be a [TS]

01:20:05   good time it's what we call what are you [TS]

01:20:07   reading scott what are you reading [TS]

01:20:09   what am I reading right now or are you [TS]

01:20:12   know what that you've reached things [TS]

01:20:13   that you've read lately that you would [TS]

01:20:15   like things about instead it's more of a [TS]

01:20:16   catchy [TS]

01:20:17   it's not what are you reading not [TS]

01:20:19   entirely accurate but very catchy so [TS]

01:20:21   that's why I'm saying [TS]

01:20:22   Scott what are you reading in the past [TS]

01:20:24   what have you read the sky yes [TS]

01:20:27   what are you reading lately hard what [TS]

01:20:29   did I i have read so the edgar award [TS]

01:20:31   nominees came out so i read a couple of [TS]

01:20:34   mystery books a woman with a blue pencil [TS]

01:20:36   I enjoyed very much is it about a copy [TS]

01:20:38   editor [TS]

01:20:39   uh-huh it is well it is kind of it's [TS]

01:20:41   about a character in the book is writing [TS]

01:20:43   the book and the editor that he's [TS]

01:20:45   talking to is changing the book is the [TS]

01:20:47   book is going a lot huh [TS]

01:20:48   oh and mystery so read that I like to do [TS]

01:20:51   is very short as well so if you don't [TS]

01:20:53   like it it won't be that long i also [TS]

01:20:57   enjoy another metafiction kind of thing [TS]

01:20:59   I like David Mitchell he wrote Cloud [TS]

01:21:01   Atlas he wrote the bone clocks which I [TS]

01:21:04   enjoyed very much and apparently he [TS]

01:21:05   wrote so much in the universe of the [TS]

01:21:07   bone clocks that he came out with a [TS]

01:21:08   little novel called slate house which is [TS]

01:21:11   basically a haunted house tail that's [TS]

01:21:14   very good and also very short again and [TS]

01:21:17   I read the latest usual book gentlemen [TS]

01:21:20   joel and the Red Queen which I enjoyed [TS]

01:21:21   but as I was talking to Dan and Jason in [TS]

01:21:24   slack i spent the entire book waiting [TS]

01:21:26   for something to happen and nothing [TS]

01:21:28   really happened but i still really [TS]

01:21:29   enjoyed accurate I Glenn what are you [TS]

01:21:33   reading [TS]

01:21:34   well i like to call recommendations from [TS]

01:21:36   the incomparable no I'm recycling ones i [TS]

01:21:39   finally got to read i'm actually finally [TS]

01:21:40   catching up my children old enough I'll [TS]

01:21:42   just enough spare time to be staying [TS]

01:21:44   almost contemporary with some things or [TS]

01:21:46   a year or two behind only and I read the [TS]

01:21:49   god Emperor which was discussed and I [TS]

01:21:51   give you my numbers in capital 251 and [TS]

01:21:53   256 and I i really i adored it I thought [TS]

01:21:58   I was I loved it throughout I thought a [TS]

01:22:02   great characters great development it [TS]

01:22:03   was you know story of the youth becoming [TS]

01:22:06   older so it had [TS]

01:22:07   dumb you know this whatever you call [TS]

01:22:09   that a juvenile novel but whatever it is [TS]

01:22:12   and really terrific and I was dying for [TS]

01:22:15   the next book and then I find no there's [TS]

01:22:17   just this one yeah can we convince her [TS]

01:22:20   to write another one cuz it's a great [TS]

01:22:21   for this wonderful world is very self [TS]

01:22:23   consistent but I also understand it it [TS]

01:22:25   works on its own [TS]

01:22:26   well there's a lot of in that sensor is [TS]

01:22:27   a lot of exposition in court stuff to [TS]

01:22:29   learn for no pay off in the future [TS]

01:22:30   volumes so I was slightly disappointed [TS]

01:22:32   by that but i really enjoyed it [TS]

01:22:34   I'm catching up the experience that I [TS]

01:22:36   mentioned which and i just bought copies [TS]

01:22:38   I i read the first in that series and i [TS]

01:22:40   had not read was a license wake the lion [TS]

01:22:43   wakes libraries week sorry always [TS]

01:22:46   thinking about the whale leaving a wake [TS]

01:22:47   behind in night and tonight away i'll [TS]

01:22:50   just woke up and i bought the next three [TS]

01:22:52   books in the series and used form sorry [TS]

01:22:55   about royalties I and i'm going to get [TS]

01:22:57   around finally reading the market which [TS]

01:22:58   I cared for a good on Ricky ketchup [TS]

01:23:01   that's my guess what will go and be [TS]

01:23:03   reading and look what we're going to [TS]

01:23:04   have visited little brat but Karen [TS]

01:23:06   Campbell that what are you reading [TS]

01:23:08   I haven't been reading as much as I [TS]

01:23:10   would like because it's mostly been job [TS]

01:23:12   hunting [TS]

01:23:12   um also I was preparing for the [TS]

01:23:14   Gallifrey one convention so i spent some [TS]

01:23:16   time reading all of the Titan run of the [TS]

01:23:18   Doctor Who comics with the exception of [TS]

01:23:21   Paul Cornell's for doctors because i had [TS]

01:23:23   just read that and remembered it because [TS]

01:23:24   i did a panel on those and they were [TS]

01:23:26   great once again most of it was a reread [TS]

01:23:28   so if you like comics and Doctor Who [TS]

01:23:30   highly recommend the Titan Books i have [TS]

01:23:33   also been reading Julian maze the [TS]

01:23:35   many-colored land for a and as yet [TS]

01:23:38   unannounced project that's coming up but [TS]

01:23:40   we do need to work [TS]

01:23:42   yep interesting yes and the other thing [TS]

01:23:47   that i've been reading is as usual on [TS]

01:23:48   candy magazine which I which I work for [TS]

01:23:50   so you know [TS]

01:23:51   full disclosure there but an issue 8 [TS]

01:23:53   that came out most recently there were a [TS]

01:23:56   couple stories that I just loved one was [TS]

01:23:58   called the creeping women by Christopher [TS]

01:23:59   barzak which is a retelling of the [TS]

01:24:01   yellow wallpaper which is a well-known [TS]

01:24:04   feminist short story and then there's [TS]

01:24:07   this just delightful tale called the [TS]

01:24:09   desert glass maker and the jeweler of [TS]

01:24:11   bari-bar by rosenberg and if you are [TS]

01:24:14   feeling a little down and you just need [TS]

01:24:16   a little bit of joy and and up [TS]

01:24:18   lift in your life i can't recommend that [TS]

01:24:20   story enough it was just beautiful [TS]

01:24:21   so yeah check out on candy magazine [TS]

01:24:25   alright allene what are you reading I [TS]

01:24:28   don't know yet but i can tell you some [TS]

01:24:30   cool things that i've read and so my [TS]

01:24:31   friends [TS]

01:24:32   k tempest bradford is a science fiction [TS]

01:24:34   writer and she has this thing she calls [TS]

01:24:36   the tiny tempest challenge which is four [TS]

01:24:40   for a year is her official challenge I [TS]

01:24:42   don't know how long I'm gonna do but I'm [TS]

01:24:44   only reading books by people who are [TS]

01:24:47   societally marginalized so people who [TS]

01:24:49   are members of the LGBTQ AIP community [TS]

01:24:53   women people of color that anything and [TS]

01:24:56   so outside of things that I'm reading [TS]

01:24:58   like for the incomparable that's what [TS]

01:25:00   all of my reading falls into lately so I [TS]

01:25:02   to recently read the Goblin Emperor and [TS]

01:25:06   I didn't like it as much as everyone [TS]

01:25:07   else did but I was happy to have read it [TS]

01:25:09   and I'm one book that i've read a couple [TS]

01:25:13   months ago was sorcery to the crown by [TS]

01:25:16   xin cho and it's actually the first of a [TS]

01:25:19   series in this kind of fantastical world [TS]

01:25:22   where magic is real i think it's [TS]

01:25:27   probably like eight late eighteen [TS]

01:25:29   hundreds early nineteen hundreds England [TS]

01:25:31   that it takes place in and about how [TS]

01:25:33   magical people and non-magical people [TS]

01:25:37   can interact and and what laws and [TS]

01:25:40   regulations around that sounds really [TS]

01:25:41   boring i didn't like it for the first [TS]

01:25:43   half and at the end I was like I want [TS]

01:25:45   more of this so i really really [TS]

01:25:46   recommend that one that has been on my [TS]

01:25:48   to-read list for a while I keep hearing [TS]

01:25:50   good things so i bought it but i haven't [TS]

01:25:52   read it [TS]

01:25:52   yeah I liked it a lot it's good Scott [TS]

01:25:55   comes up i have read it I liked it [TS]

01:25:58   yeah alright i have i've been reading i [TS]

01:26:01   also read gentlemen Joel in the red [TS]

01:26:03   queen by lois mcmaster bujold the latest [TS]

01:26:05   of the four coskun books i agree with [TS]

01:26:07   Scott kinda nothing happens in it the [TS]

01:26:09   fact is it's the kind of book you're [TS]

01:26:10   right when you've got a 16 book series [TS]

01:26:13   and you've built up so much history with [TS]

01:26:16   seriously so much history with so many [TS]

01:26:17   of these characters the lead character [TS]

01:26:19   in this book is Cordelia she was the [TS]

01:26:21   lead character in chronologically the [TS]

01:26:23   first two books in the series [TS]

01:26:25   she was a fairly young woman she was [TS]

01:26:26   what I like 25 or 30 and that in those [TS]

01:26:29   books she is now 75 [TS]

01:26:31   uh it it connects you know and uses your [TS]

01:26:35   knowledge of the setting of those books [TS]

01:26:37   and the characters and their family [TS]

01:26:39   histories you mourn for characters who [TS]

01:26:43   have died you know and yet nothing [TS]

01:26:45   happens except like a sort of alien bee [TS]

01:26:49   attack at one point that is not that [TS]

01:26:52   dramatic ok but on another level on [TS]

01:26:56   another level a lot of things happen [TS]

01:26:58   because it is like a romance so it's [TS]

01:26:59   about it's about two people who are [TS]

01:27:02   grieving for a death and then [TS]

01:27:05   discovering themselves you know together [TS]

01:27:07   a connection between the two grieving [TS]

01:27:09   people that i think is a very nice and [TS]

01:27:12   it talks that you know there's there's [TS]

01:27:14   some social commentary it goes across [TS]

01:27:17   some boundaries that I'm sure will work [TS]

01:27:19   some readers but i thought was [TS]

01:27:21   challenging and interesting in its [TS]

01:27:23   discussion of a variety of sexualities [TS]

01:27:27   and and the polyamory as well i thought [TS]

01:27:30   it's a really yeah i-i-i thought it was [TS]

01:27:33   great and nothing happens in it [TS]

01:27:35   Scott's exactly right it's just life [TS]

01:27:37   happening for characters you've known [TS]

01:27:38   for a long time and you get to see them [TS]

01:27:41   again and it gave me a kind of happy [TS]

01:27:44   feeling reading it which is all you can [TS]

01:27:46   ask for anything to happen but it's not [TS]

01:27:48   the the greed of our kousaka novel and [TS]

01:27:51   you think big set action said yeah you [TS]

01:27:53   don't think it's going to be like a [TS]

01:27:54   space battle or a gun fight or something [TS]

01:27:56   like that and really there the bee [TS]

01:27:57   attack is the most dramatic thing that [TS]

01:27:59   happens it's a small intimate story is [TS]

01:28:01   very well done and but I think Jason and [TS]

01:28:03   i were talking and this is not the place [TS]

01:28:05   that you should jump new and more ghosts [TS]

01:28:07   consultant know if you haven't read the [TS]

01:28:09   other 15 books don't read this don't [TS]

01:28:11   know it agreed for one of the four was [TS]

01:28:13   Hugo i read a standalone one because [TS]

01:28:16   it's sort of often a separate planet [TS]

01:28:17   right I thought that was great work very [TS]

01:28:19   well for me yeah but I i was one it's a [TS]

01:28:21   great it's fantastic here I I mean Dan [TS]

01:28:23   Moore and recommended like four years [TS]

01:28:24   ago and I went and I ripped through like [TS]

01:28:26   12 or 13 books in a very short amount of [TS]

01:28:28   time and there they are not all good but [TS]

01:28:31   they are mostly very good and if you can [TS]

01:28:34   pick up the cornelius honor [TS]

01:28:36   it's like a 2-pack it's the first two [TS]

01:28:38   books in the series chronologically and [TS]

01:28:40   you can get that sometimes you get there [TS]

01:28:42   really cheap it's a it's a great place [TS]

01:28:43   to start and a lot [TS]

01:28:44   fun so that was good and then I i I'm [TS]

01:28:47   halfway through grace of kings by ken [TS]

01:28:48   loo which a lot of people like and I [TS]

01:28:50   just I'm not hacking it and it's [TS]

01:28:52   nominated for a nebula award and I don't [TS]

01:28:56   know it it's not working for me it's [TS]

01:28:59   very mythical and interesting in that [TS]

01:29:01   sort of fantasy setting it's about a [TS]

01:29:02   rebellion against an evil emperor who [TS]

01:29:06   will the Emperor I think it's like the [TS]

01:29:09   Emperor dies but he has set this Empire [TS]

01:29:11   up which previously the states that all [TS]

01:29:13   been independent states and now there is [TS]

01:29:16   a revolt and there are lots of [TS]

01:29:19   characters many of whom come and go and [TS]

01:29:21   then there are lots of these sort of set [TS]

01:29:23   pieces where their naval battles where [TS]

01:29:24   that the whole bunch of things going on [TS]

01:29:26   that have never been established before [TS]

01:29:27   that are told kind of in shorthand so [TS]

01:29:30   you have like the the plot slows down [TS]

01:29:31   and you've got detail with characters [TS]

01:29:33   and then suddenly it speeds up and you [TS]

01:29:34   just got things tossed off and it's very [TS]

01:29:36   frustrating so i don't know if i'm going [TS]

01:29:38   to finish it or not it's a shame because [TS]

01:29:40   it is is highly thought of by a lot of [TS]

01:29:42   people but I'm finding it kind of hard [TS]

01:29:44   to hack very interesting a book club [TS]

01:29:46   sodas books we couldn't finish a finish [TS]

01:29:48   book club chef i skim to the last fifty [TS]

01:29:51   percent but club [TS]

01:29:53   yeah yeah yeah I read the wikipedia page [TS]

01:29:55   here yeah yeah it's this group index [TS]

01:29:58   part 2i like grace of keys [TS]

01:30:02   yes well its got enjoy how embracing [TS]

01:30:05   your of things is very nice and and yeah [TS]

01:30:08   i would i would say more positivity [TS]

01:30:10   about Luna colon new moon you should [TS]

01:30:13   know going in that it is half of a book [TS]

01:30:15   it tells a good story but it is did the [TS]

01:30:18   story will continue its half of a story [TS]

01:30:20   is a full book i'm more positive after [TS]

01:30:22   we talked about it actually felt more [TS]

01:30:24   negative better before we start talking [TS]

01:30:25   about like you know there's a lot of [TS]

01:30:27   good points and i think i'm mostly [TS]

01:30:28   frustrated about where the narrative is [TS]

01:30:29   are more so frustrated than necessary [TS]

01:30:31   that the storytelling some glad we had [TS]

01:30:33   this conversation sometimes it's good to [TS]

01:30:34   be it sometimes a good it's good to know [TS]

01:30:37   what you're getting into as opposed to [TS]

01:30:38   bad going in completely i think going in [TS]

01:30:41   completely blank if somebody had told me [TS]

01:30:43   that aurora was about a completely [TS]

01:30:46   failed you know it's basically this is [TS]

01:30:49   about why generation ships are a bad [TS]

01:30:51   idea i would have been a much better [TS]

01:30:53   place mentally for what I got than being [TS]

01:30:56   than having no expectations [TS]

01:30:58   and Luna Luna I would have felt better [TS]

01:30:59   about the ending if I'd known it was [TS]

01:31:01   essentially like blackout and all clear [TS]

01:31:03   really sort of you know once a half of a [TS]

01:31:06   story [TS]

01:31:07   whoo yeah I could picture myself getting [TS]

01:31:09   into over i mean i think about myself i [TS]

01:31:11   like watching documentaries about awful [TS]

01:31:13   things that happened so and going into [TS]

01:31:16   those you know that they end poorly [TS]

01:31:19   I think maybe I could have enjoyed it in [TS]

01:31:20   somewhat the same way if I would have [TS]

01:31:22   known [TS]

01:31:23   imagine a cosmos like sequence from the [TS]

01:31:24   new series of just that orbital [TS]

01:31:26   mechanics part was really brilliant and [TS]

01:31:28   interesting the ship started to lose its [TS]

01:31:29   mind a little bit and it's taxing its [TS]

01:31:31   abilities it's kind of a cool scene [TS]

01:31:33   accepted Scott stray too much [TS]

01:31:35   information but it's kind of it's a [TS]

01:31:37   really interesting vignette out of this [TS]

01:31:39   whole thing which not very much happens [TS]

01:31:41   for long periods of time [TS]

01:31:42   all right well we're gonna close up the [TS]

01:31:43   book club for now but I'm glad we got [TS]

01:31:45   back to it we'll have to keep our eye [TS]

01:31:46   out for some more current ish books to [TS]

01:31:48   review on a future edition of the book [TS]

01:31:51   club and yes perhaps there are other [TS]

01:31:52   book related things coming from the [TS]

01:31:55   incomparable it had a teaser it could [TS]

01:31:57   happen well you know the number one [TS]

01:32:00   reason to promote it actually has to [TS]

01:32:01   happen [TS]

01:32:02   yep so let's say anything that's right [TS]

01:32:05   or it may be the biggest tease hotel [TS]

01:32:07   like it might never happen we'll see [TS]

01:32:09   people have to read the books and record [TS]

01:32:10   the podcast and then we'll we'll find [TS]

01:32:12   out but until then i would like to thank [TS]

01:32:14   my book club or use because you got [TS]

01:32:16   through the books you read the books or [TS]

01:32:18   at least to skim the books and that is [TS]

01:32:20   but reading the books is half the battle [TS]

01:32:23   I don't know what the other half is [TS]

01:32:24   recording the podcast is the other half [TS]

01:32:25   Glenn fleischmann thank you for being [TS]

01:32:27   here [TS]

01:32:27   a pleasure and thank you Eric and sign [TS]

01:32:29   thank you very much thank you Colleen [TS]

01:32:32   sims I'm glad you got through it you had [TS]

01:32:33   to fight but you got through it I did it [TS]

01:32:35   and Scott McNulty thank you as always [TS]

01:32:40   for being part of the book club and [TS]

01:32:41   first suggesting the books i always feel [TS]

01:32:44   slightly guilty suggesting looks but I'm [TS]

01:32:49   glad you keeping buddy but somebody's [TS]

01:32:51   gotta do it someone's gonna read the [TS]

01:32:52   books and it's you and thanks everybody [TS]

01:32:56   for listening to be uncomfortable and we [TS]

01:32:58   will see you again next week goodbye [TS]

01:32:59   everybody [TS]

01:33:10   [Music] [TS]