0:00:00being comfortable is brought to you by
0:00:02IT pro TV enhance your technology
0:00:04aptitude with IT pro TV the resource to
0:00:08keep your IT skills up to date with
0:00:09engaging and informative video tutorials
0:00:12for a free 7-day trial and thirty
0:00:14percent off the lifetime of your account
0:00:16go to IT pro dot TV / smell and use the
0:00:20code smell the incomparable number 290
0:00:28mar 2016
0:00:32welcome back everybody to be
0:00:33uncomfortable on your hostess and smell
0:00:35and we're going to open up the video
0:00:38game Dusty covers of the video game club
0:00:40which doesn't get to work out that often
0:00:42but they're back to talk about it
0:00:44recently released the game probably fire
0:00:47watch from campo santo and published by
0:00:49Panik available for Windows OS 10 linux
0:00:53and if you get a ps4 it will work on
0:00:55their to joining me to talk about this
0:00:58recent release video game which I so
0:01:01rarely play but i did this time it's
0:01:03very exciting are my panelists fine
0:01:05group all brian hamilton hello
0:01:07wait we're not here to play wizards in
0:01:09wyvern's I wait for it
0:01:12Tiffany arms is back to talk more video
0:01:14games hello hi it's good to have you
0:01:17serenity Caldwell's out there
0:01:19hello hello hello it's the ghost of
0:01:22serenity called my flu racked ghost but
0:01:24she's and I'm trying to imitate what it
0:01:26might sound like coming through
0:01:27walkie-talkie oh nice Tony sindelar is
0:01:30scanning the forest hi Tony high and
0:01:33John siracusa of course because we're
0:01:35talking about video games i'm glad i
0:01:37don't see any progress bar counting down
0:01:39when i'm asked to reply on the show
0:01:40wait you don't see that it's there it's
0:01:43in mind it's in my mind the the why is
0:01:46my answer will move on i have I want to
0:01:49start this bob so that this is
0:01:51interesting I guess disclosure here is
0:01:54many of us know the people at Panik who
0:01:56published this game although i don't
0:01:58know anybody at campo santo who produced
0:02:01it and i really only saw a preview of it
0:02:05XOXO last fall but uh that's all really
0:02:08I knew about it and I played a couple
0:02:13weeks ago I my only other bit of
0:02:15disclosure if this is an opening
0:02:17statement so be it is when i was i just
0:02:19graduated from college in 1992 i worked
0:02:25for the summer at my local newspaper
0:02:27back home and one of the stories that i
0:02:30wrote was about a guy named herb who was
0:02:33a fire spotter and he lived for the
0:02:36summer in a single room platform at the
0:02:39top of a mountain and look for smoke
0:02:43from forest fires and radioed them in
0:02:45I went out to the to the fire tower and
0:02:49interviewed him and so to see a game
0:02:52based on that premise is sort of tickled
0:02:54me and i can say that it pretty much
0:02:57jobs with my my memory of his fire tower
0:03:01the setting of the fire tower and fire
0:03:03watch so yeah I got I got kind of a kick
0:03:05out of it
0:03:05it wasn't a two-day hike to get there
0:03:07which is part of the plot of a Firewatch
0:03:09so so far watches a it's a it's a game
0:03:13where you are you're Henry who too is
0:03:17working in Wyoming in the National
0:03:19Forest as a fire spotter so he has got
0:03:22his he takes a two day hike and goes to
0:03:25this tower where he can overlook the
0:03:28forest and he can see off to another
0:03:30Ridge where there's another tower in
0:03:32which is Delilah who is another person
0:03:36working at sapphire spotter and she sort
0:03:38of his manager and then we have a sort
0:03:42of adventure and discussion and
0:03:44flashbacks of hit of what has brought
0:03:46Henry to this point and that is what
0:03:49Firewatch is all about
0:03:52I so love what would people think i'm
0:03:56gonna start here
0:03:57Firewatch opens with an interesting
0:04:00structure where you are sort of in a
0:04:04series of flashbacks about how you get
0:04:06to the lookout and it's not sort of just
0:04:11a prologue that gets you there but a
0:04:13series of choices you've got to make and
0:04:16they're kind of interlaced with arriving
0:04:19in the in the forest and i'm curious
0:04:22what everybody thought about the way
0:04:24that the story starts it is incredibly
0:04:27cinematic especially because it
0:04:29completely breaks that the expectation
0:04:33that this is going to be you know that
0:04:34kind of cinematic game with those with
0:04:37those text adventure bits we get to
0:04:40choose what you say in the bar and we
0:04:43say on the balcony and things like that
0:04:45and then goes back to these beautifully
0:04:48faded in faded out moments they are
0:04:49timed perfectly
0:04:51it feels this is the most playable
0:04:53movie-style game ever played that's
0:04:56different than a lot of the
0:04:58the games that use the same mechanics
0:04:59where they will be text on the screen
0:05:01and you have a series of choices very
0:05:03early on in the intro sequence which by
0:05:05the way is not really what the rest of
0:05:07the game is like it yeah we're like a
0:05:08pre credits type sequence where they
0:05:10make your picture is is it becomes clear
0:05:11if you've played a lot of these
0:05:13adventures that this is mostly not going
0:05:16to be one of those games where they
0:05:18present you with the series of choices
0:05:20and based on your choices you are
0:05:21defining your character very early on
0:05:23they force you to make a series of
0:05:26choices
0:05:27none of which certainly some bad choices
0:05:29the corner corner code good choices you
0:05:32because that's the type of game you can
0:05:33play a lot of a lot of games that are
0:05:35like they give you a range of choices
0:05:36where you can decide what kind of person
0:05:39you want to be but this game is
0:05:40different this game has an idea of who
0:05:42this character is or needs to be for the
0:05:44purposes of the story and you are forced
0:05:46to essentially choose from several what
0:05:49you might consider bad choices which
0:05:51isn't necessarily a bad thing but it
0:05:53definitely frames this game is even
0:05:54though it has the trappings of the you
0:05:56know sort of that the tell-tale style
0:05:58games like The Walking Dead or whatever
0:05:59where you're expecting someone to say
0:06:00you know you know Kerry will remember
0:06:03this or whatever I this is more like you
0:06:06are the person saying that you'll
0:06:07remember this because although there are
0:06:09many different choices there
0:06:12this is not a role-playing game you
0:06:13don't get to define Henry Henry is a
0:06:15person you have to sort of inhabit him
0:06:17for the course of the game also in all
0:06:19of my playthroughs none of the different
0:06:21choices you make really affect anything
0:06:23in the long run just how you relate to
0:06:25Henry and Delilah and I i think the
0:06:26opening I think Johnny said I really
0:06:28well in terms of you inhabit him and I
0:06:30thought the opening did a really great
0:06:31job of like placing you inside of him
0:06:33pretty quickly and pretty efficiently
0:06:35and elegantly thoroughly I have to say
0:06:37something about that CSI i'm really
0:06:39curious how serenity you feel about it
0:06:41too in that when i started playing this
0:06:43game I had a really hard time connecting
0:06:45to it because it's such a personal
0:06:47emotional embodiment of the game and I i
0:06:50guess as like a woman playing this game
0:06:53I couldn't get into it as much because I
0:06:57felt already like this game wasn't
0:06:59supposed to be made for me a little bit
0:07:02because of I'm not Henry know what i
0:07:05mean like i didn't i didn't feel the
0:07:07same way Henry was failing are doing the
0:07:09same thing Henry was doing because I did
0:07:10I just felt like I don't
0:07:11I I relate more when I can play as a
0:07:14female character and I think that a game
0:07:15specifically like this where it is so
0:07:19personal and it's so emotional and it's
0:07:22so specific to you are as you guys said
0:07:25like embodied inside of Henry I felt
0:07:28disconnected from that and so that but
0:07:32you know that bothered me a little bit
0:07:33when i played this videogame the second
0:07:35time i was able to kind of like let that
0:07:37go a little bit more but it's still it
0:07:39you know guys don't have to you know
0:07:41when you see a game like this you don't
0:07:42have to worry about is this game made
0:07:44for me because it is and you don't have
0:07:46to think like that you're gonna feel
0:07:48differently about the character because
0:07:51it just is made for you so I don't know
0:07:53I I had a little bit of a hard time
0:07:55connecting ya know I i definitely agree
0:07:58with you in the beginning especially
0:08:00those sort of initial us as well as
0:08:03you're describing very cinematic scenes
0:08:05to me it it there was a little bit of a
0:08:08disconnect from it because yeah it's
0:08:12it's very hard to be like yes I am a
0:08:14late twenties college dude who drinks a
0:08:18lot
0:08:18and these are my motivations and this is
0:08:20whom like it takes it took a little bit
0:08:23for me to not only get the character but
0:08:28to feel like I could uh huh
0:08:31actually i'll be honest like there are
0:08:32parts of me that identify with Henry
0:08:34throughout the game but the reports to
0:08:35me that we're still like you stupid
0:08:37idiot
0:08:38what are you doing why are you saying
0:08:41these things why don't you get that this
0:08:43is a code that your supervisors like
0:08:46there's so many so many things in this
0:08:48game where I'm just like oh my god
0:08:50you're just your lug your lovable lug
0:08:53but all gosh yeah like when they ask how
0:08:55do you pose you know and you're like oh
0:08:57do you pose like you're frolicking
0:08:58Victoria's Secret her you're a macho man
0:09:01and i looked at Marco because my husband
0:09:03who was you know watching me play while
0:09:04I was playing the game and I'm like I
0:09:06don't know which one do you want to do
0:09:07was like I'd like there were a couple
0:09:09questions in the very beginning to like
0:09:11set the tone of the game and I like turn
0:09:12to him like i don't know i don't know i
0:09:14was able to pick the dog you know I'm
0:09:16like I'm not a jerk i'm totally picking
0:09:18bucket every time that's what she wants
0:09:19like of course you can be a jerk here
0:09:21but this
0:09:22that is the correct answer everyone
0:09:25playing role on Team bucket right
0:09:26oh yeah yes you better bust well you
0:09:29know the gender angle does make it
0:09:31easier for guys to relate because at
0:09:32least they have a fighting chance so
0:09:34maybe you knew somebody was like this
0:09:36maybe you can relate to be if you're
0:09:37married you can relate to being married
0:09:39to trying to pick up a woman at a bar
0:09:40when you're drunk or something like that
0:09:41but like i said in the beginning even
0:09:44four guys the game forces you to realize
0:09:47you are not playing as yourself you are
0:09:49being asked to inhabit this character
0:09:50this character that makes bad choices
0:09:52and that yeah you're only given the
0:09:55choice is your given number the ones you
0:09:57feel like these are the choices i would
0:09:59make sure you have to it's kinda like
0:10:00when you're reading a book and the main
0:10:01character is something like to share
0:10:03right what it was like you're really
0:10:05just a regular novel in the main
0:10:06characters nothing like you you have to
0:10:08the good book will say well even those
0:10:10characters nothing like me and does make
0:10:11decisions that I would never make
0:10:12because the the protagonist and if the
0:10:15author does a good job you can end up
0:10:16relating to them and it's kind of like a
0:10:19life is strange is it not business a
0:10:21similar game to fire watch your life is
0:10:22stranger ask the players as a you know a
0:10:24young teenage girl a lot of games are
0:10:27like that in the day they ask you to be
0:10:29somebody you're not and it's a different
0:10:31kind of game where you have to accept
0:10:34that it is not a role-playing game and
0:10:36you don't get to define the character
0:10:37you just get to I mean you got home late
0:10:39for example I mean I did I diet you can
0:10:41I relate to the experiences of a you
0:10:44know a young lesbian teenager and gone
0:10:45home
0:10:46no but if you you know eventually you
0:10:48switch your mindset and say alright this
0:10:51is not me this is this character and I'm
0:10:52sort of being within I don't know it
0:10:55happening is one more because you are
0:10:56animating them and you are making
0:10:57choices
0:10:59it's kind of like role playing in the
0:11:01dnd sense where you are assigned a
0:11:03character and you have to be a gruff
0:11:04dwarf and even if you're not a gruff
0:11:05kind of person you feel like well time
0:11:07to pretend I'm a graft war right because
0:11:09that's this character or whatever and
0:11:11you can get in that way
0:11:12yeah but I mean that's but this is like
0:11:14a very personal character you know he's
0:11:15a person he's making choices he's doing
0:11:17things like and I think of me to say
0:11:19that the writing and everything was
0:11:20really great that eventually you know i
0:11:21was able to let that go and be like okay
0:11:23I'm playing as Harry I will Harry that's
0:11:25what I thought I always kept thinking
0:11:27was Harry from haha madman like I'm just
0:11:29making carries choices like that's all
0:11:31I'm doing well I could have done
0:11:32I version where you got to pick the
0:11:34gender of the care oh yeah i mean i
0:11:35understand they put so much time and
0:11:37extra stuff more acid so much time into
0:11:40the voice actor yeah you don't get to
0:11:41change what happens in the game because
0:11:43money because yeah but going back to
0:11:46what you were saying about character
0:11:47John because that was that was what
0:11:49invention we sort of made me embrace the
0:11:52the game as as uncomfortable as I felt a
0:11:54sort of the initial few minutes I it
0:11:57reminds me a lot of what i used to do as
0:12:00a kid actually as a kid in the woods
0:12:02where I would read books on and then you
0:12:04know you would you you have the book the
0:12:06story that's in the book and then
0:12:08occasionally you go and you you take the
0:12:11character out of the book and you say oh
0:12:13you know like I wonder what would happen
0:12:15if Luke's got like it looks guy Walker
0:12:17was in the middle of the woods I wonder
0:12:18what he was decisions you would make I
0:12:20want you know when you start it's almost
0:12:22like developing a character for your own
0:12:24book in and in each like putting some of
0:12:27your own voice into a predetermined
0:12:29character and playing with them outside
0:12:31the constraints of a traditional story
0:12:34and it's kind of weird way of describing
0:12:36how i felt about this game but but in
0:12:40some ways it was very much like okay I'm
0:12:42taking somebody else's character this is
0:12:44not a character I would have ever
0:12:45written but as a writer
0:12:47it was really interesting to me to play
0:12:50this game and think about that think
0:12:52about his decisions in his choices as
0:12:54like I am painting the future of Henry
0:12:57the character of you know I have a Harry
0:13:00crane in the nineteen eighties as a is a
0:13:03slightly level slightly doofus in the in
0:13:05the middle of the woods and part of it
0:13:08is you know how what how would you react
0:13:12but moreover i felt more and more like
0:13:15this person is not is never going to be
0:13:18me but i can i can roleplay as this
0:13:22character you'd like you were saying i
0:13:24can i can inhabit this character and and
0:13:26play within them
0:13:27what makes this game so incredible is
0:13:29that it tricks you into thinking you're
0:13:30the one that's driving all the action
0:13:32because everything is already written
0:13:34all the dialogue is already recorded all
0:13:36you're doing is just pushing wasd to
0:13:38move around and make everything moved
0:13:40forward so the fact that the writing can
0:13:41suck you into thinking that you are the
0:13:44actual one cream
0:13:45reading this story like a Firewatch was
0:13:46a short story or a movie would probably
0:13:49be pretty good but it would be nowhere
0:13:50near as effective as if you were the one
0:13:52actually wandering through the woods and
0:13:54digging things up and putting out fires
0:13:56and look Skywalker in the woods angle
0:13:58the the part that is extra difficult
0:14:01about this is when you play as another
0:14:03character even and gone home or life is
0:14:05strange or something in general the
0:14:06protagonist is admirable or heroic or
0:14:09even if they make choices you wouldn't
0:14:11make it usually because they're more
0:14:12brave than you are or you know like that
0:14:15that there's a hero to the story
0:14:17whereas right off the bat in this one
0:14:18the protagonist in the story which you
0:14:20are being asked to play you kind of feel
0:14:22like I'm better than this guy
0:14:24I mean she not like you just a force you
0:14:27to select among bad choices and things
0:14:29turn badly and by the time you end up in
0:14:32that fire watch station you kind of
0:14:34think of this guy you mean I think
0:14:36you're in the place the game want you to
0:14:37be like this guy's life is a mess and
0:14:38it's his own fault i think you're
0:14:40supposed to be like uncomfortable like
0:14:42planned very right likelike it'sit's
0:14:44very intentional like bad things happen
0:14:46to him and he didn't handle them well
0:14:48and you for what you didn't handle it
0:14:50well because the only two choices you
0:14:51ever given all the choices was like bad
0:14:53and bad again the dog choice was the
0:14:55only easy one
0:14:56they're at and and really the dog prices
0:15:00only easy for us because we're a bunch
0:15:01of softies right but someone else's
0:15:02somewhere is going like obviously picked
0:15:04the german shepherd but anyway like it
0:15:06you end up there trying to put you into
0:15:09place you're never going to feel like
0:15:10unless you had something like Henry had
0:15:11happened to him worse his wife gets
0:15:13everything we do is spoil her already
0:15:15I know but there are things were going
0:15:17to fire the spoiler off for but the
0:15:20essentially the prologue of the story
0:15:22you shouldn't be listening to this
0:15:23podcast if you want to go into it cold
0:15:26so i'm not gonna find a spoiler one-off
0:15:28I'm just gonna say we're gonna talk
0:15:29about the setup of the story and feel
0:15:31free about it
0:15:32alright so his wife has dementia and it
0:15:35actually putting home if my status
0:15:37happened to you can never be in that
0:15:38headspace the closest the game can get
0:15:40is to essentially make you participate
0:15:44in a series of bad choices leading up to
0:15:46him being away from his wife and you
0:15:48should feel bad about it because you
0:15:51know if it was just you don't have any
0:15:52choices you'd say this guy's away from
0:15:54his wife and i feel i look down on him
0:15:57for that but because you were forced to
0:15:58pick left to ride your be a whole bunch
0:16:00of times you have a little bit of I feel
0:16:03bad because I did that and especially on
0:16:05the first playthrough you're like maybe
0:16:08one of the other choices I didn't pick
0:16:10would have led to a better dialogue tree
0:16:11I mean and and that would have led to a
0:16:14situation where I don't feel quite as
0:16:15bad but that's what they want you to be
0:16:17once you get into the station they want
0:16:19you to be disoriented kind of feeling a
0:16:22little bit guilty not sure what's what
0:16:24still thinking about that whole prologue
0:16:26sequence and then being thrust into you
0:16:29know Delilah squawking at you over the
0:16:31radio to go
0:16:32what's this all about what is also doing
0:16:33fire right now I i think if it is and it
0:16:37i assume it is a creative decision to
0:16:39make you it uncomfortable and give you
0:16:43actually some sort of remove from Henry
0:16:46over you know you're like you're
0:16:48operating him but you're almost like a
0:16:49dissenter while your hot friend you're
0:16:51like all right well I'll play this guy
0:16:53but only under protest because that's
0:16:55definitely how I felt and I didn't have
0:16:57a problem with that I felt like I
0:16:59certainly would have been more
0:17:00comfortable being shown a prologue that
0:17:03says this guy's messed up and now you
0:17:07get to steer him as opposed to what what
0:17:10Firewatch does which is makes you
0:17:11complicit in his screw-ups that you
0:17:13can't it makes you very uncomfortable at
0:17:15least it made me very uncomfortable to
0:17:17have to make all of those bad decisions
0:17:20and to not have any choice but to make
0:17:23one bad decision or another I don't know
0:17:25how many people played alone versus with
0:17:27someone nearby when I have someone was
0:17:28watching me play and they're like whoa
0:17:29this gets heavy fast
0:17:31yeah i guess like I mean I kind of knew
0:17:34what the concept of the game was but I
0:17:35was not perhaps emotionally prepared for
0:17:38what that little prologue was going to
0:17:39be like an undergraduate the magic trick
0:17:41is that if you're in the right headspace
0:17:44once you get there you start to like
0:17:47sort of cognitive dissonance texting you
0:17:49like well yeah things are in a bad
0:17:52situation but you know I really didn't
0:17:54have much of a choice and for people in
0:17:56that situation and then time you've done
0:17:57something about your life very often you
0:17:59say yeah things ended up this way but
0:18:01it's not like I had that much of a
0:18:02choice like that that if you are in a
0:18:04bad situation like very often it seems
0:18:06as if at the time you all you had a
0:18:09choice of is a series of bed
0:18:10prices and whichever one you were to
0:18:12pick there was no alternate dialogue
0:18:13tree you would have always led to this
0:18:15situation sort of like to explain your
0:18:17own life to yourself that that even
0:18:20though if you look at my life you would
0:18:22feel like you obviously made some
0:18:24choices you can make better ones for me
0:18:26experiencing that time all I ever saw in
0:18:28front of me were two choices both of
0:18:29which are bad and I tried to pick the
0:18:31least bad one and stone up in a bad
0:18:32place um and if you can get into that
0:18:35mindset you can kind of start to
0:18:37identify because he literally isn't a
0:18:39game where you don't you can't you can't
0:18:41get to a situation where you are better
0:18:43to your wife and you know the whole nine
0:18:45yards right you can't do that but when
0:18:48he's in that fire watch station
0:18:50not that he has a chip on his shoulder
0:18:51but you can kind of tell that he's has
0:18:55justified somebody's running away from
0:18:57it all and like it you know if you were
0:18:59to talk to him if you would have liked
0:19:00free dialogue with Henry and say so
0:19:02what's the deal with all that stuff with
0:19:03your wife and everything would be like
0:19:05you know in hindsight I you know just
0:19:09seemed like at the time there was no way
0:19:10out like that any nothing I did was the
0:19:12right thing to do
0:19:13I think the listening to tiffin and
0:19:16certainly talk about the the the issues
0:19:20with this the another lot of games that
0:19:21will put women in the been male
0:19:24characters with no choice but i wonder
0:19:26because I felt this way to has a man
0:19:28playing a male character i think the
0:19:30intimacy of this story the emotional
0:19:32connection and what's happening here
0:19:33inside this person's life makes it a lot
0:19:35harder to to connect then it then just
0:19:41saying well you know you got a gun in
0:19:43your fight aliens and yet you're your
0:19:45characters mail but whatever right this
0:19:47is the you can't just shrug it off at
0:19:49exactly this is this is you you are
0:19:52talking about the formation of a
0:19:54relationship and then the all the
0:19:56problems in the relationship and then
0:19:58this horrendous kind of end of the
0:20:00relationship them all of that happens
0:20:01and it's it's you know it's not it's
0:20:05that intimacy i think is the thing that
0:20:06really makes it different than just
0:20:09inheriting some character that alright i
0:20:12guess i'm playing this game now let's
0:20:14take a break so i can tell you about one
0:20:15of our sponsors this episode is brought
0:20:16to you by IT pro TV if you've got a
0:20:19career plan you want to set in motion
0:20:21looking to start a career and ITR
0:20:23already work
0:20:23in the field certificates credentials
0:20:25these are the keys to getting a job or
0:20:27promotion and that is the mission of IT
0:20:29pro TV education through engagement with
0:20:31up-to-date high quality video content
0:20:33and access to the most important tools
0:20:35you need for technology certification
0:20:37they've got more than a thousand hours
0:20:39of content more than 50 hours being
0:20:41added every week they are streamed live
0:20:43and of course they're available on
0:20:45demand worldwide to video player boxes /
0:20:48mobile devices or computers
0:20:50course topics include apple certified
0:20:52support professional apple certified
0:20:53technical coordinator amazon web
0:20:55services microsoft technology
0:20:57certification Google Apps for work
0:20:58administrator virtualization and a whole
0:21:00lot more includes a hundred or more
0:21:03step-by-step virtual machine labs and
0:21:06transcender practice exams that's a
0:21:07hundred nine dollar value all of this
0:21:09you get for one low monthly subscription
0:21:11price there's a no-hassle cancellation
0:21:13policy if you're studying with a book or
0:21:14enrolled in a certification or technical
0:21:16degree program this is a great
0:21:17supplement if you're working IT
0:21:19professional this is the ongoing
0:21:20resource you need to help keep your
0:21:22skills current so check out IT pro dot
0:21:26TV / smell to upgrade your brain with
0:21:29the most popular IT certifications
0:21:31premium subscriptions normally fifty
0:21:33seven dollars a month for five hundred
0:21:35and seventy dollars a year but there's a
0:21:36special offer you can try it free for
0:21:38seven days when you signed up using code
0:21:40smell to check out their courses
0:21:42livestream and much more and you'll also
0:21:44get thirty percent off not just for a
0:21:45little while but for the lifetime of
0:21:47your account with IT pro TV that's less
0:21:49than forty dollars a month for 399 for
0:21:51the entire year that's IT pro dot TV /
0:21:54smell and use code smell to try it free
0:21:56for seven days and save 30-percent
0:21:58forever thank you to IT pro TV for
0:22:01sponsoring the incomparable we should
0:22:03talk a little bit about uh the forest
0:22:07I think hmm the that is that is a major
0:22:11character in this game as the forest and
0:22:13your job as the fire watch person is to
0:22:17watch for fires and then you get down
0:22:20off of the the tower and you run around
0:22:22in the forest and that is most of this
0:22:23game this game is like a forest
0:22:25simulator on one level and i actually
0:22:27was what was thinking to myself or two
0:22:29questions and two points I want to make
0:22:30and I'm interested in your thoughts
0:22:31about and one of them is I really
0:22:34enjoyed running around in the forest and
0:22:37admissions to accomplish in this game so
0:22:39it was more than just running around but
0:22:40honestly I had a moment where I thought
0:22:42you know I could probably just wander
0:22:43around in this forest and it's like a
0:22:44great game for nerds who always think
0:22:46about going hiking but would rather just
0:22:48sit in front of the computer you can
0:22:49hike in the forest on your computer so
0:22:52so I don't lose any toes yeah but it was
0:22:54I thought that was beautiful and well
0:22:56realized and then the only other thing i
0:22:57want to mention in this in this section
0:22:59I'm curious about is for a game called
0:23:01Firewatch there is literally zero fire
0:23:04watching I kept expecting that it would
0:23:06start with you wandering around on the
0:23:09tower looking out in the forest waiting
0:23:12to see a puff of smoke somewhere and
0:23:14then radioing it in and you're never
0:23:16given that opportunity and I'm sure they
0:23:19have a good reason they want to kick off
0:23:20the storyline and not bore people but I
0:23:22kind of wanted it to say here's your job
0:23:26stand here here are some binoculars look
0:23:29around and do that for a little while
0:23:31before something happened or maybe even
0:23:33during the story have it just like
0:23:35totally slow down back to well just go
0:23:38back to doing your job but I and bug me
0:23:40a little bit that at no point does Henry
0:23:42do his job like the job of a person in a
0:23:46Firewatch station instead the times
0:23:48presumably when he's doing that we've
0:23:49got sort of fade in and out and we never
0:23:51see them and I kind of wanted that I
0:23:52kind of wanted that boredom and quiet of
0:23:55staring out of the forest there was a
0:23:57time of that there was a on day three
0:23:59they gave you like a free time where
0:24:01they're like all right well when you're
0:24:03ready you talk to me but you know go do
0:24:05what you need to do and you can kind of
0:24:06like not engage the story at that point
0:24:09and just kind of do what you want i
0:24:11instantly said ok I'm ready and didn't
0:24:13spend any time wandering around
0:24:15yeah you can totally like way too much
0:24:17time early on the enolate as long as you
0:24:19want and there there little bit too in
0:24:22the in the middle day is I think it's
0:24:24like Dave 30-year day 40 something like
0:24:27that
0:24:28whenever right after you see we do see
0:24:31the fire in midnight on the June fire
0:24:34there are a couple of a couple of things
0:24:37that the forest exploration aspect is
0:24:40really eerie to me in some ways so I
0:24:45mean I grew up in the Sierras
0:24:47in the summers we have a cabin up north
0:24:50of Lake Tahoe and granted this is not
0:24:53this is not even remotely designed to
0:24:55look like the Sierras but it still has a
0:24:58and there's a familiarity up to being in
0:25:01the absolute wilderness and wandering
0:25:03around and feeling like even with all
0:25:06the the later slightly terrifying things
0:25:09that happen in this story all the things
0:25:11that will happen behind horn behind this
0:25:13from the app behind together and the
0:25:17forest does not feel menacing it we it
0:25:20first even even in the potentially
0:25:23spoiler horny stuff the forest it its
0:25:26it's this weird like you can be out in
0:25:28the middle of nowhere even in the middle
0:25:30of nowhere game-wise and not be worried
0:25:33that someone is going to jump out and
0:25:34scream at you I'm not worried that
0:25:37you're going to stumble and then fall
0:25:38down a ravine I it's all of the all of
0:25:41the things that I remember loving about
0:25:43exploring the forest is a child being
0:25:46able to run up trails and no like nose
0:25:49through Brock bushes and hear this
0:25:52that's very like the the soundscapes in
0:25:55this in this game are so good I I had a
0:25:58moment where I was running through a
0:25:59meadow and thinking this is great
0:26:01because at no point is this game going
0:26:03to make me look down my shoelaces and
0:26:05hang out all the stickers
0:26:06yeah or deal with that deal with all the
0:26:09mosquitoes flying or just even like
0:26:11another video games and in red dead
0:26:13redemption has all these wonderful like
0:26:15soaring vistas and you'll be looking
0:26:17around and then like it will be really
0:26:19like taking in the atmosphere and then
0:26:20you get mauled by a bear or something
0:26:22did you guys find a raccoon yes I heard
0:26:25there was a raccoon
0:26:26yeah it's really cute it's super cute
0:26:28and a picture of him on my camera
0:26:30oh well you got a picture i guess so I'm
0:26:32earlier before I had the camera i got i
0:26:35saw him right after i got the camera and
0:26:37I was like well if if nothing else was a
0:26:39camera moment this is the camera want no
0:26:41did anybody get a turtle no well I see
0:26:43it on the screen shot page on the
0:26:45website but i did not get him and that
0:26:46get back get back to what you guys were
0:26:48talking about before and that I always
0:26:50felt because i'm a gamer and
0:26:52a game player compelled to go to the
0:26:54next objective for two reasons one that
0:26:57like you know you want to see how the
0:26:58story's gonna go to every time you
0:26:59realize the story beat you know you
0:27:01always go what's the next story be
0:27:02what's the next story beat that
0:27:04and the second thing is that like I
0:27:07again being a gamer i had in my head
0:27:10that the day-night cycle was dynamic and
0:27:13scaled as in like you know one hour of
0:27:15game time equals 24 hours of whatever
0:27:17you know whatever scale was that dude
0:27:18like the clock was running at all times
0:27:20when in reality was probably check
0:27:22pointed and the like this scene happens
0:27:24during dusk and you have basically you
0:27:26know like I was afraid I was always
0:27:27afraid that the Sun would go down
0:27:28completely and not there would be a
0:27:30loose condition but that I would that I
0:27:33would miss out on some part of the game
0:27:35by being bad at navigation essentially
0:27:37like getting from point A to point B so
0:27:38at every point in the game I was like a
0:27:41page-turner a novel I was compelled to
0:27:42go to the next point to the next point
0:27:45to the next point and I'm with Jason and
0:27:46that not that I think it would've been a
0:27:48better game with this but just that what
0:27:50i was looking for in some areas was the
0:27:53like in a longer game there would have
0:27:55been more like this like a time when you
0:27:57are just sort of hanging out in the
0:28:00woods and sort of taking ownership of it
0:28:02and i think one of the main reasons they
0:28:03couldn't do that in this game aside from
0:28:05trying to make it tight and make it you
0:28:06know all fit together nicely as again
0:28:08budget because the woods although they
0:28:10look like woods have to be constructed
0:28:13as a series of funnels to herd cattle
0:28:15into a certain number of places that a
0:28:17lot of it is open but there are
0:28:19essentially invisible walls made of
0:28:20brushed some brush you can clear a lot
0:28:23of brush you can't some rocks with
0:28:25carefully painted white ledges you can
0:28:26go up other boulders are just an
0:28:28invisible wall for you and they have to
0:28:31do that to corral people through the
0:28:32story of the game whereas if it was an
0:28:34open-world game like like they had to
0:28:37strike the balance between we want you
0:28:38to feel like this is an entire woods
0:28:40that is completely open to you but on
0:28:41the other hand we do have story beats to
0:28:43head and we do want people to be
0:28:45successful to navigate from point A to
0:28:46point B so we do kind of wanna corral
0:28:49you in the right direction again I think
0:28:52it all just comes down to budget and
0:28:53development time you can't make this
0:28:55magical game it's like oh it's a big
0:28:56fantasy open-world you can spend as much
0:28:58time as you want to go into your but
0:28:59also this type a story that clicks for
0:29:01people that they're able to play and
0:29:03that's that's just something inherent in
0:29:05sort of small independent non big-budget
0:29:08games and I don't think the game is
0:29:10lesser for it because I kind of see all
0:29:12the reasons that they chose to do it
0:29:13that way but the game just look so
0:29:15beautiful that I do wish there was a
0:29:17like a game with 700 times the budget
0:29:20that was like this but fully realized
0:29:23with no invisible walls
0:29:24yeah I showed this games my brother i
0:29:25was watching him play over his shoulder
0:29:27and he's a much more quote unquote
0:29:29traditional gamer you know the first
0:29:31person shooters and things like that and
0:29:32he is the kind of person I realized just
0:29:35then watching him play this where he is
0:29:37the person who will play the game based
0:29:40on where they don't want you to go
0:29:41whereas I'm the kind of game that plays
0:29:43based on where it be game obviously
0:29:45wants you to go and that makes a lot of
0:29:47sense for the story games because you
0:29:49know there's paths there's a story beats
0:29:51that you need to hit there's no dynamic
0:29:53lighting that shows ok when you're at
0:29:54this point you're at dusk at this point
0:29:56you're doing this seen things like that
0:29:57and he was going all the way over to the
0:29:59edge and trying to figure out okay go
0:30:01over this like in Skyrim no okay and it
0:30:04if there is a game with no 700 times the
0:30:07budget where you could have everything
0:30:09look at just this beautiful grand theft
0:30:11auto 5 really does not look as beautiful
0:30:13as this but everything is interactable
0:30:15that's not a word everything is able to
0:30:17be interacted with everything is able to
0:30:20be you can drive around everywhere and
0:30:21it doesn't look nearly as good as fire
0:30:23watch and when it comes to bang for your
0:30:25buck and most game for your time
0:30:26Firewatch is a much better game despite
0:30:29you know at what you were saying John
0:30:30all those invisible walls and all the
0:30:32things that they need to get in there
0:30:33for the sake of budget but also for the
0:30:36sake of story so but they didn't ask you
0:30:37to navigate that's the tricky thing like
0:30:39journey is another example of a small
0:30:41small game with not a lot of place and
0:30:43and journey is definitely following you
0:30:44the same way with the story beats but no
0:30:46part of journey is it like and navigate
0:30:48however you want from point A to point B
0:30:50you never on a first playthrough journey
0:30:53ideally you'd never hit invisible wall
0:30:55and I feel like almost anybody on their
0:30:56first play through fire watches at some
0:30:58point could did an invisible wall even
0:31:00if it's only just a series of boulders
0:31:01and trees preventing you from funny a
0:31:03path that's what the forest is like I
0:31:05was actually impressed that i could go
0:31:06as many places I could given how
0:31:08impassable so much i mean it
0:31:10the invisible walls are visible walls
0:31:13because it and they treat in the story
0:31:15levels in trees and boulders
0:31:16about the brush her like a a boulder
0:31:18this as high as your shin you could step
0:31:20over but they make you walk around and
0:31:22you know like it because like you just
0:31:23don't have the budget to try to make
0:31:25completely passable terrain river you
0:31:26have to essentially make it passable
0:31:29area versus non passable all 22 final
0:31:31people around but because they give you
0:31:32the freedom it's almost open world like
0:31:34they say get back to the tower however
0:31:36you want there's a whole bunch of
0:31:37alternate paths you don't have to follow
0:31:38the palace that but if you take one of
0:31:41the alternate paths that seems like it's
0:31:42entirely plausible that all there is
0:31:44just a little bitch with a different
0:31:45amount of dirt in it and some shin-hye
0:31:47boulders and trees you can clearly walk
0:31:50between easily it's like no you can't go
0:31:53that way but sometimes you go up
0:31:54depression it says you know L to clear
0:31:56brush or whatever it's all I can clear
0:31:58this brush but i can't clear the other
0:31:59brush so it it's it's very difficult
0:32:03I mean it's a challenging thing if you
0:32:04decide to make a game for this budget
0:32:05for this amount of gameplay and say all
0:32:06is going to be an overall forest looks
0:32:08gorgeous from every direction that's
0:32:10really hard to do they mean by it looks
0:32:11gorgeous from every direction but it is
0:32:13not quite open world it's like
0:32:15ninety-nine percent open i have one of
0:32:17those moments that totally pulled a bit
0:32:19out of me when I was going to the scout
0:32:21camp and lazily if I approached it from
0:32:24one side there was an invisible wall
0:32:25that just like we just consider when
0:32:28yeah I couldn't get there and I was like
0:32:29okay I guess I'll navigate around but
0:32:31it's like why I'm guessing that one was
0:32:34a bug
0:32:35yeah I get it done everything the cabins
0:32:37from that one side instead of it so you
0:32:39experience that to like how ya doing
0:32:41I like I tried it for a really long like
0:32:43stupid amount of time to really get to
0:32:44know that while i'm like no i know i can
0:32:46get into this is the second time i
0:32:47played i know i'm allowed here for me
0:32:50that moment was towards the end there is
0:32:52a really wonderful music moment whereas
0:32:55you're supposed to be walking somewhere
0:32:56the music kicks in and dramatic and bump
0:32:58bump bump and I got a horrific lost and
0:33:02the music kept playing four maybe five
0:33:04or ten minutes while I was trying to get
0:33:06back to the path is a yeah they just
0:33:10lost all of its momentum after a while
0:33:11like okay yeah this is just background
0:33:13noise now I need to get back on the
0:33:14freaking path I mean journey does that
0:33:16same thing to die i have experienced
0:33:18that to brian it was like stop stressing
0:33:19me out music you maybe you made me freak
0:33:21out now I don't know where I am
0:33:23that's the delicate dance between the
0:33:24developer and the player they you want
0:33:26to be in harmony
0:33:27and when you're in harmony everything
0:33:28works but boy if things go off the rails
0:33:31and i said i think it is a harder
0:33:32challenge to get that in this type of
0:33:35game where it's the woods and it is very
0:33:37impressively large area a beautiful area
0:33:39places you want to go to you like a look
0:33:41at that all the way over there oh you
0:33:42know even if you're not compelled to go
0:33:44that I could objective you do want to
0:33:45explore I think that leads to more
0:33:47people getting hung up on geometry or
0:33:49getting disoriented and feeling unfairly
0:33:52they can't get back to the path you
0:33:53really can totally see it right through
0:33:54that brush sprite or whatever there was
0:33:56one point where they wanted you to go
0:33:57down to the lake to and they even
0:33:59shortened one of the the belaying ropes
0:34:03so that you couldn't get back up one of
0:34:05the shell slides because they really
0:34:06really wanted you to go to the lake and
0:34:08it was just like just little tiny
0:34:10shortened up and then the next time you
0:34:12go see it's long again and you can
0:34:13totally climate i'm going to just like
0:34:15what
0:34:16yeah my god i was a little trick but oh
0:34:18well I make it wouldn't have been that
0:34:20big of a deal if you went exploring but
0:34:22yeah it's it's interesting to me because
0:34:24i think by and large I actually I
0:34:26figured out sort of the the good places
0:34:28to go and not good places to go by
0:34:30looking at map terrain that map is
0:34:32beautiful and I was trying my hardest to
0:34:35work on the map without the without why
0:34:38little GPS dot yeah isn't that nice you
0:34:41got a paper map that has a that has a
0:34:43track around it was a mechanic come over
0:34:45there other people complaining about how
0:34:46hard it like that getting lost and stuff
0:34:49at us like that
0:34:50I i did not experience well so you can
0:34:52if you're bad at directions which I'm
0:34:55not I'm pretty good with a compass in
0:34:57real life but apparently and fire watch
0:34:59all of that goes out the window because
0:35:00I definitely went someplace being like
0:35:02I'm going south
0:35:03wait no now i'm hitting an impenetrable
0:35:04wall where to go but when i combine it
0:35:07with the map it's very easy to see what
0:35:10areas are basically explorable and what
0:35:13areas are just mountain and it was also
0:35:16nice because it gave me clues on sort of
0:35:19where to look for the hidden manna still
0:35:21be hidden mickeys butt but there are
0:35:23some there are some interesting things
0:35:25in the game that i don't know i don't
0:35:26necessarily think directly play to the
0:35:29the primary story but you can find by
0:35:32kind of wondering often
0:35:34and going into little did anybody maybe
0:35:37this requires spoilery but anybody find
0:35:40the burned-out cabin on the outside
0:35:42yeah i did not know that yeah so there's
0:35:46so that I won't tell you where I won't
0:35:48tell you where but there is a super
0:35:51super creepy burned-out cabin and when
0:35:53your radio Delilah about it
0:35:55Delilah's silence and you can explore
0:35:58said cabin but I i ran into that really
0:36:01early on when the game was still very
0:36:03much in its happy-go-lucky phase and I
0:36:05was like oh let's go okay now i'm
0:36:08getting a serious missed five what's
0:36:10going on so but but I didn't I wouldn't
0:36:13have found that if i hadn't been paying
0:36:15such close attention to the map where
0:36:17they like the darker shades in the
0:36:19lighter shades were for exploring so i
0:36:21highly encourage people if you not
0:36:23finish the game if you're going back on
0:36:25a second playthrough that's a really fun
0:36:27way of kind of looking through stuff
0:36:30they also just released the maps for
0:36:33download in super high-quality format so
0:36:36you can actually print it out and have
0:36:37it with you while you play be covered
0:36:40this week also sponsored by The Walking
0:36:43Dead collectors models are you a fan of
0:36:46AMC's hit TV series walking that lots of
0:36:49people are is one of the most successful
0:36:50shows on television these are officially
0:36:54authorized collectors models available
0:36:56directly from eaglemoss collections the
0:36:59ultimate Walking Dead figurine
0:37:01collection for ultimate fans of the show
0:37:04this is an extensive collection
0:37:05featuring the most popular characters
0:37:06from across all seasons of The Walking
0:37:08Dead I've got not just Rick of course
0:37:11you've got to have Rick but I've got
0:37:13Merle in front of me here and he's got
0:37:15that great thing on his arm with the
0:37:16like the stabby stabby knife at the end
0:37:19which is super awesome i've got the
0:37:20governor here he's got his eye patch and
0:37:22a gun so straight out of what is that
0:37:25season to season three of The Walking
0:37:26Dead so all the seasons are represented
0:37:29here every character depicted in a
0:37:31classic pose stands on a base and has
0:37:33been faithfully reproduced in 12 21
0:37:36scale that's about three and
0:37:38three-quarters inches tall
0:37:39they're casting especially formulated
0:37:41metallic resin painted by hand
0:37:43following original reference from the
0:37:44AMC archives each model comes with a
0:37:46detailed booklet spotlighting that
0:37:48character you can start your collection
0:37:49today with Rick Grimes i'm looking at
0:37:51him now it is very much the risk that
0:37:53you know and oppose that you know from
0:37:56the walking dead its 495 with free
0:37:58shipping and new models are released
0:38:00monthly and delivered directly to your
0:38:02door you can cancel your subscription at
0:38:04any time for details on the entire
0:38:06collection and to order yours visit TWD
0:38:09collection.com / smell that's TWD for
0:38:13the walking dead collection.com and
0:38:16thank you to eaglemoss and the walking
0:38:17dead collectors models for sponsoring
0:38:19being comfortable i really enjoyed how
0:38:21do they didn't just use that as we're
0:38:22talking about the invisible walls to
0:38:24guide you but they use the dialogue and
0:38:26a lot of times the Lila would say things
0:38:28to you that kind of would funnel you
0:38:30around to get you back on track with the
0:38:32game and I thought that was kind of neat
0:38:34that sometimes when you like radio in
0:38:36about like a random meadow or something
0:38:38and she's like why are you over there
0:38:39she's like you're not supposed to be
0:38:40over there
0:38:41you're supposed to be doing your job
0:38:42like stop fooling around and focus you
0:38:44know you really reading about the
0:38:46utility poles like all these utility
0:38:48poles they used to community and if you
0:38:49can see them you're way off course
0:38:51yeah there's one you could even go back
0:38:52to the what is that called the little
0:38:56trolley that you can only handle islands
0:38:59Charlie if you go up there really early
0:39:00she's like oh yeah it's totally closed
0:39:03unless it's an emergency and they make
0:39:04jokes and they say like it's an
0:39:06emergency let me over and always try and
0:39:09throw it it kind of its fun that you
0:39:11they the dialogue directs you but also
0:39:15kind of build your relationship in a
0:39:16different way if you hadn't found that
0:39:18kind of stuff and you get like more
0:39:19jokes that they have between each other
0:39:21and the guy i think it changes their
0:39:24relationship a little bit like later on
0:39:26because then they get more their voices
0:39:27even sound more casual with each other
0:39:29know that the flip side of that is if
0:39:31you don't communicate with their like my
0:39:33son was playing through this even though
0:39:34it's got lots of curses and everything
0:39:35you know yes she gets she has been so I
0:39:38get mad like she because he's you know I
0:39:41barbarian preteen boy I was trying i was
0:39:44saying you should use the thing to
0:39:46answer on the radio and he's like why
0:39:48would it like that's the game you have
0:39:50to you know because if you don't
0:39:51communicate with her if you don't
0:39:53encourage a series of bad puns if you
0:39:55don't if you when she's going to admit
0:39:57that she was drunk when she called you
0:39:59if you don't engage in a conversation
0:40:00she never admits
0:40:01and that too that you just missed that
0:40:03entirely like you you you fail to build
0:40:05a relationship so in some ways there's a
0:40:08little bit of the game player that
0:40:10person was playing the game including
0:40:12how the story goes that if only and how
0:40:13much gets revealed i'm assuming by the
0:40:15end of the game she gets all casual
0:40:16familiar anyway but it's weird to see
0:40:19someone playing the game who isn't
0:40:21compelled or this doesn't understand
0:40:23they're being asked to it is isn't
0:40:26trying to exhaust at least one branch of
0:40:28all the dialogue breeze which i think
0:40:29most game players are you know it's kind
0:40:32of like reading a book and getting i'm
0:40:33gonna skip this page of dialogues I want
0:40:34you gotta read you gotta play out the
0:40:36story you know whichever way it's gonna
0:40:38go i'm pretty certain it stays
0:40:40consistent throughout the game they like
0:40:41how your relationship bills because I
0:40:43don't know did you guys listen to the up
0:40:45up down down with the game developers
0:40:47haven't yet it's it's very good it's
0:40:50super insightful when it comes to
0:40:52understanding how the how dynamic the
0:40:54dialogue really is and how many I audio
0:40:57clips that they recorded in order to
0:40:59really even pinpoint like okay so what
0:41:02makes this choice and then this choice
0:41:03and that choice and then it then that
0:41:05changes with it it changes the outcome
0:41:08of this conversation because if you
0:41:10don't tell her something you know that
0:41:12she will never know it so she can't
0:41:13bring it up later so and then that so
0:41:15that changes every single kind of like
0:41:18the the i guess the the tree that's
0:41:20forms with the dialogue and it will
0:41:23change the course of the game
0:41:24it's very very interesting i highly
0:41:26suggest that people who are interested
0:41:28in this game
0:41:29listen to that episode because they they
0:41:30really highlight that a lot and that
0:41:33made me after my first playthrough
0:41:34really appreciate the depth of dialogue
0:41:37and the voice acting and what that what
0:41:40this game is really highlighting so much
0:41:42more that's really difficult to do
0:41:43though because many situations even my
0:41:45first playthrough I got the dialogue
0:41:47thing a little bit confused about the
0:41:49timing of like oh she would have
0:41:51realized she just told me that and now
0:41:53she's telling me the same thing in a
0:41:54different context you know like that
0:41:56that it's been so very difficult to make
0:41:58it all seem naturalistic and again when
0:42:00everything is working and when I went to
0:42:01person playing the game makes some
0:42:03semblance of the obvious choices and
0:42:05times things in the appropriate ways but
0:42:07it's very easy for it's very easy to
0:42:09break the game by doing with you no they
0:42:11don't
0:42:11want to do even if you're not that kind
0:42:12of player I mean I like this game a lot
0:42:15but they're all these places where you
0:42:16can kind of see the seams and that I
0:42:18don't like that and and i think i'm part
0:42:20of my eye I don't know if i will replay
0:42:22this because in some ways I feel like if
0:42:24I replay it i will just see more of
0:42:26those and that will just kind of
0:42:27diminish my my enjoyment and especially
0:42:29yeah i mean because I mean I'm kind of
0:42:32without having played it without having
0:42:34gone and sought out the answer it
0:42:35because I don't totally want to know but
0:42:37I mean I assume there's lots of choices
0:42:39you make that or you know almost all the
0:42:41choices you make really don't matter
0:42:43well I played I to to counter that just
0:42:45a second like I played it differently
0:42:47each time i played it twice and the
0:42:49first time I made one set of decisions
0:42:51in the second time I made a second set
0:42:53and I feel like I it followed me through
0:42:55the game in a similar way but my
0:42:57relationship with Delilah was a little
0:42:59bit different and I think that that is
0:43:02what is is highlighted here you know
0:43:04what I mean it's not going to
0:43:05drastically change the outcome of the
0:43:07game or anything but your relationship
0:43:09with this person and I guess feels
0:43:11different
0:43:11how you feel about the character that
0:43:13your body yeah would change
0:43:16I'm just I i played uh other games by
0:43:19the same writing team and there are lots
0:43:21of places where it's like you realize
0:43:23after the fact that they're kind of like
0:43:24they're false choices and like they can
0:43:27feel powerful and motivating at the time
0:43:30but then when you kind of see later that
0:43:32like it didn't matter that kind of like
0:43:34the magic trick is undone and your
0:43:35robbed
0:43:36that's kind of the gamers mindset though
0:43:38greater like well it doesn't change the
0:43:40ending like the only thing that matters
0:43:41is like at the end of the game what
0:43:43happens to the aliens winter they lose
0:43:45to do the world ball operators I mean
0:43:47lapa cheers and ire does your son live i
0:43:49didn't get the part of fire watch where
0:43:50there were aliens John right now but
0:43:52that's what people mean when they talk
0:43:53about the taste like whether they're
0:43:55like oh it doesn't matter what you do
0:43:56the ending is always the same but what
0:43:58if says is true in a game like this
0:44:01the plot points of like who did what and
0:44:04what turns out to be the mystery is not
0:44:06entirely what this game is about and if
0:44:09you go to the game with it with a
0:44:10different series of choices and you feel
0:44:11at the end of it that you have a very
0:44:13different relationship with the other
0:44:14the other certain non-player character
0:44:16in the game that is at least fifty
0:44:18percent of the game but every review of
0:44:19it everyone who plays it will always say
0:44:21oh well it doesn't really matter it has
0:44:23the same ending
0:44:24it really the same ending like no you
0:44:26know it mean plot-wise it is but that's
0:44:28again with it i think it's a mindset of
0:44:30when reviewing games that that you
0:44:32always think about it in her because
0:44:34games can do this thing where like you
0:44:35have drastically different endings you
0:44:37can have those type of games which again
0:44:38for watching us from the very beginning
0:44:40we are not that type of game there's not
0:44:42a series of choices you're gonna make
0:44:43they're gonna make this person live in
0:44:45this person died or whatever like it's
0:44:46well not gonna pick on that specific
0:44:48example this the the writers for this
0:44:50worked on the walking dead games right
0:44:52and they're all these places where it's
0:44:53like someone's in mortal danger and you
0:44:55have basically a choice of like try and
0:44:57help them or leave them to die and then
0:45:00what's kind of rough is that there's a
0:45:02lot of times with like you try to help
0:45:03them and you were unsuccessful and they
0:45:05die vs you leave them and you see them
0:45:07die and you know you can feel
0:45:09differently about it into the end like
0:45:11well he's not trying to save them versus
0:45:12i was i I mean you feel differently and
0:45:15about the person you are but it's also
0:45:16like you then see when you realize that
0:45:19choice didn't you know you you also
0:45:21didn't have any control that's what now
0:45:23you know that's where you see the seam
0:45:25and you're like a it's advisor how much
0:45:27control do I have the world that I have
0:45:29oh how much control do I have this story
0:45:31versus is the story just being told to
0:45:33be I guess I'm gonna be late for the
0:45:34meeting room time travel movies you know
0:45:36that if you actually have a legitimate
0:45:38choices it does not take long until you
0:45:40are essentially creating an entire world
0:45:42of possibilities within your tiny little
0:45:43game it's like that you know that the
0:45:45the you know unescapable math of tree
0:45:48branching means there and there are some
0:45:50games that do that which is pretty
0:45:52impressive money you have to do it all
0:45:54you have to do it is in the big points
0:45:56because you can make it so all you have
0:45:57is definitely feel satisfied like wow
0:45:59there are you up or didn't that's just
0:46:00two branches right but people will think
0:46:02all it's a significant change these
0:46:04series of of you know but it's like it's
0:46:06it's a tree that comes back in on itself
0:46:08and ends up with two or three different
0:46:09endings whereas you related to play out
0:46:11naturally you start out with in one
0:46:13position and then up with like 700,000
0:46:16endings and that is untenable but that
0:46:18is the natural consequences of real life
0:46:20in a game that has a branching structure
0:46:22yeah you branch out but you have to come
0:46:24back into have five possible ending 25
0:46:27minutes but not a million endings not to
0:46:29the power of 65 and things right you
0:46:30know me and that's what that's what
0:46:32realistically would be like I like when
0:46:34the game gave you one choice at certain
0:46:36points and
0:46:37had to click that one choice you have on
0:46:39and I mean like I feel like that's like
0:46:41forcing you to own that choice and to
0:46:43become that choice in that character you
0:46:45know and I I thought that was a nice
0:46:48touch that that even though it wasn't
0:46:51you know your choice and it wasn't
0:46:52making the trainee broader and it wasn't
0:46:54like making a dynamic are giving you a
0:46:55better option
0:46:56it was still making you click that and
0:46:59by clicking it you're like okay as if
0:47:01this character i'm making this choice to
0:47:03say this or not say this or do this or
0:47:05not do this but you're doing it you have
0:47:07to click it so that anyways you're
0:47:09complicit now
0:47:10yeah well think about games like journey
0:47:13and gone home where there is no choice
0:47:14where everything that happens you're
0:47:16controlling it but there is a single
0:47:18linear path and I don't think there's
0:47:20any diminishing returns between having
0:47:22several different options are several
0:47:24different endings or tree branches or
0:47:26whatever versus just having one
0:47:28narrative experience that is fantastic
0:47:30even the first time and then you go back
0:47:32and even if you can see the seams as you
0:47:34go back as you make the same decisions
0:47:36are different decisions and no decisions
0:47:38because there's only one narrative path
0:47:40I feel like there's no like I I would
0:47:43not call this a better game because
0:47:45there's extra options
0:47:46regardless of whether or not those
0:47:48options really affect anything in terms
0:47:50of plots isn't a whole psychological
0:47:52thing that if you have more choices
0:47:53you're less happy with your outcome i
0:47:57think in the character driven game like
0:47:59this that what you really want is I i
0:48:01like the idea that the plot is really
0:48:03gonna go as it's going to go but your
0:48:04relationship is going to be impacted by
0:48:06the choices you make your relationship
0:48:07with that person on the other side of
0:48:09the pic of the canyon on the other end
0:48:11of the walkie-talkie and and I like that
0:48:13about it that you know I if if you feel
0:48:16like nothing matters then you can take
0:48:19you out of the game if you're just
0:48:20completely on rails and you know they're
0:48:22there but here what you get is the plot
0:48:24is is pushing you in that in the
0:48:26direction you need to go but the
0:48:28relationship is something that you have
0:48:30to tend to and build and make choices
0:48:32about and having it feel like that has
0:48:34an impact makes you feel like you you
0:48:36know you did you did have you did have
0:48:39an experience where you helped create it
0:48:40even if you were still kind of on the on
0:48:43the on the rails in terms of the plot
0:48:45itself so i was other games you
0:48:46mentioned a like they they have all the
0:48:50things you described but they always
0:48:50want to give you
0:48:51something else to to enjoy the place
0:48:54over example journey the thing they're
0:48:57giving you is your experience with the
0:48:58other player which is an actual human is
0:49:00very unpredictable even though your
0:49:01interactions very constrained that can
0:49:02totally change your experience of the
0:49:04game even though there are essentially
0:49:05no choices during the game
0:49:07the walking dead i think what gives you
0:49:08is a lot of branches that eventually
0:49:11merge back together a story with
0:49:13characters that like it's more of a
0:49:14faceless protagonist you can kind of
0:49:16define more and i think one of the key
0:49:19points in the walking dead for me is at
0:49:20one point in the game
0:49:22something happened and I felt compelled
0:49:25to the whole wrestling was playing
0:49:26playing make my choices best i can
0:49:28enjoying it but at a certain point
0:49:29something happened that I felt like I
0:49:31need to go back into the last checkpoint
0:49:33because I know there's some way I got to
0:49:35be able to not let this happen and i
0:49:36wanted to do that mostly because i was
0:49:37invested in the characters and the story
0:49:39and I didn't want this thing to happen
0:49:41figures just me I've made a series of
0:49:42bad choices there must be a way to avoid
0:49:44this and when I found that it was
0:49:45unavoidable
0:49:46it was a little bit disappointing but it
0:49:47also showed me that I had become
0:49:50invested in the characters then often
0:49:51these characters that I cared that this
0:49:52choice that I made led to his outcome
0:49:54and yes reveals the game is a little
0:49:56more limited at this game like journey
0:49:58it doesn't have other human players to
0:50:00play with but it has some other part of
0:50:02the game that is supposed to be making
0:50:04up for the fact that you are essentially
0:50:05being led through the the the trail by a
0:50:08bright on thats the in your interactions
0:50:09with the Lyle which to vary the scenery
0:50:12your sort of your sort of eventually
0:50:14becoming invested in taking ownership of
0:50:16this experience and the sort of am I
0:50:19going crazy what is really going on here
0:50:21you know what it called encyclopedia
0:50:24brown side plot journey that makes up
0:50:26the heart of this game that we started
0:50:27really talking about it which would I
0:50:29think we should I think we should get to
0:50:30let me take a break to tell you about
0:50:32our sponsor casper mattresses
0:50:34obsessively engineered american-made
0:50:36mattresses at a shockingly fair price
0:50:40and now you can get fifty dollars off
0:50:41any mattress purchase by going to Casper
0:50:44dot-com / smell and using code smell at
0:50:48checkout look we all spend about a third
0:50:49of our lives sleeping
0:50:51you should do it on a good mattress
0:50:53Casper brings together two great
0:50:55technologies they like to say for better
0:50:57nights and brighter days I've been
0:50:58sleeping on a casper mattresses for like
0:51:00a year and a half now and it's a great
0:51:02mattress it's so much better than a man
0:51:04just that i had they have a really
0:51:06interesting construction process there
0:51:08are two kinds of foam there's latex foam
0:51:09that's the top layer it's the one that
0:51:11gives you this really good feel I I
0:51:14guess that's what they would call just
0:51:15the right sink and then there's a firmer
0:51:16memory foam layer underneath they would
0:51:18say just the right balance it does not
0:51:20feel like you're going to sit on the
0:51:21edge of a trampoline when you sit on the
0:51:23mattress and when you lay down you're
0:51:25going to get a great comfortable feel
0:51:27much better than you'd get laying on a
0:51:28mattress in store for two minutes
0:51:30because you get to try it they have a
0:51:32free trial and return policy you can get
0:51:35a cast mattress try for up to a hundred
0:51:36days and if you're not happy they'll
0:51:38pick it back up and take it away and
0:51:40you'll get your money back that's right
0:51:41so the risk is less buying a mattress
0:51:44from Casper on the internet that it
0:51:45would be going to a store laying on a
0:51:47mattress for two minutes and hoping that
0:51:48you made the right call you get five
0:51:50hundred dollars for a twin size mattress
0:51:52you pay 954 a king-size mattress from
0:51:55Casper
0:51:55compare that to industry prices you'll
0:51:57find out that these are reasonably
0:51:58priced mattresses and they feel so good
0:52:01so get fifty dollars toward any mattress
0:52:03purchase a Casper by going to Casper
0:52:05dot-com / smell and using code smell
0:52:07terms and conditions apply thank you so
0:52:10much to Casper for sponsoring the
0:52:12incomparable and giving me a good
0:52:13night's sleep every night i hope we have
0:52:16satisfied your your curiosity enough to
0:52:20bake you interested in playing this game
0:52:21but now we're gonna we're gonna break
0:52:22down some of the things that happen
0:52:24toward the end in terms of the plot so
0:52:26we're gonna fire off the spoiler horn
0:52:32there goes out I was so louder than ever
0:52:36the spoiler horn and that goes
0:52:38throughout the woods it does it
0:52:40that's right it's a spoiler Horn fire
0:52:42that's right huh
0:52:43I was spoiled whore neck oh yeah so I
0:52:46you know I I so the plot here we get we
0:52:50get there's there's a bunch of different
0:52:53strands we've got the we see a figure
0:52:56Leon that's unidentified there's a break
0:52:58into the to the to the the tower we find
0:53:03the backpack full of ropes that's from
0:53:05the kid we learn about Brian and and Ned
0:53:09who are out there in the in the forest
0:53:12there are there are the teenage girls
0:53:16down at the lake that you end up going
0:53:17down her firing off fireworks and then
0:53:21there is there a series of sort of
0:53:24paranoid things about people who are
0:53:26watching them and listening to their
0:53:28radios and there's a whole fenced-off
0:53:30area that nobody seems to know about and
0:53:34the tracking device and you know extra
0:53:36radios and all sorts of things like that
0:53:39as well as this fire that that starts
0:53:42and and spreads so you know there's a
0:53:45lot of different stuff that happens and
0:53:47even though it feels very linear when
0:53:49you're playing it you know when you
0:53:50think back you like well you know is it
0:53:52all connected
0:53:53is it not connected but you know the
0:53:55these are the different threads that are
0:53:56building throughout the throughout the
0:53:58story so what would people think about
0:54:00the about the plot threads and whether
0:54:05they're connected or not I have an
0:54:06opinion and I'm going to share later
0:54:08about some of it because i think some
0:54:10works better than others of it a one
0:54:12hundred percent right but what do you
0:54:15think I i enjoyed the interaction with
0:54:17the with the teenagers out in the woods
0:54:19I feel like there's I feel like that the
0:54:20game hits you with the two things that
0:54:21you're going to think about about being
0:54:23on the woods especially if you've never
0:54:24really done it but even if you have like
0:54:26one of them is people like like Delilah
0:54:28says over the radio at one point it's
0:54:30like what I got to let you know that
0:54:32they're like people out there because
0:54:34it's the National Forest and people can
0:54:36go out there this job it's outside and
0:54:41so but the two things that you get is
0:54:43one you get
0:54:43kind of slightly scary or not
0:54:46interaction which which totally happens
0:54:48where it's like I see a figure he may be
0:54:51looking at me and then he's gone is that
0:54:53creepy or is that just how life is out
0:54:55in the woods and then the other one is
0:54:57the is is that people who are out of
0:55:00civilization sometimes behave strangely
0:55:02because they get to do whatever they
0:55:05want because they're outside of
0:55:06civilization and that's what the girls
0:55:08at the girls at the at the lake are
0:55:11doing and so I like those two elements
0:55:13happen right away because you know those
0:55:17it's a good introduction to the plot to
0:55:20have have those two things and then they
0:55:22also said you wanted because you're like
0:55:23you're an authority figure 11 on the one
0:55:26hand but on the other hand maybe they're
0:55:27creepy things going on and when the
0:55:30cabin gets broken into you've got two
0:55:31suspects
0:55:32so you're already kind of like not sure
0:55:34about what's happening and that's what
0:55:36that's what propels the story I think
0:55:37it's an interesting choice for me there
0:55:39were two things going on about like the
0:55:41plot and the way that the game unrolled
0:55:43it one there were so many red herrings
0:55:45oh my god the entire kill many red
0:55:47herring central and I feel like the
0:55:50impact berries at the end of the game
0:55:51when you realize how relatively tame the
0:55:54actual events are I mean there's no like
0:55:57big grand conspiracy is just a Ned being
0:56:00a creep and being lonely and regretting
0:56:03his son's death and the fact that that
0:56:05is all that there is at the end of the
0:56:07game really i mean not all like not
0:56:11that's not a super impactful moment but
0:56:13there's still something there where it's
0:56:14like we spend the entire game freaking
0:56:17out about government agencies and these
0:56:20two girls that we don't really
0:56:21understand in some creepy person with a
0:56:23light like it ends up being something
0:56:24that's much more down-to-earth that's
0:56:26the word I'm looking for down to earth
0:56:28than any of the other crazy things are
0:56:30you thinking about during the game and
0:56:32second i feel like the whole game i was
0:56:34trying to figure out what the rules of
0:56:35the game were whether or not we would
0:56:37see other people whether or not no
0:56:39Delilah was even real they to spell that
0:56:41but there is a moment i was thinking are
0:56:43we going to see any other creatures are
0:56:45going to see anything move and I was
0:56:47trying to extrapolate where the game
0:56:48would go based on that
0:56:50and at the end we don't meet Delilah we
0:56:53only ever see one other actual human
0:56:56person at the very end he brings you in
0:56:57to the chopper and we see what a deer at
0:57:00the very beginning but that's it in
0:57:02terms of other playable characters and I
0:57:04thought is it that's budget for you
0:57:06everything you just described costs
0:57:07money you're gonna animate the Lyle I
0:57:08knew you'd never seen a lot of it
0:57:10because that would take this time and
0:57:12money you barely even see yourself you
0:57:13see a very few animals like its I mean
0:57:16is the harsh reality of game development
0:57:18is that all those things you described
0:57:20you essentially have to design
0:57:21especially game like this that looks
0:57:22just amazing like this clear all the
0:57:24money went right that's what the
0:57:26wilderness is like you can you can ya
0:57:27for a day and see nothing except that's
0:57:30why I good premise you have to think
0:57:31like we have a limited budget for a game
0:57:32and we have this ambition to have a
0:57:34beautiful forest that means lots of
0:57:37interaction with people no lots of
0:57:39animals running around know like all
0:57:41right so can we design a story where
0:57:43those become assets and I think the
0:57:45heart of the story in the central part
0:57:46is kind of like not gaslighting entirely
0:57:49but what they want you to do is realize
0:57:51that you're messed up and they want you
0:57:53to doubt yourself and Delilah encourages
0:57:55you in this of like thinking that you
0:57:57know they want you to think this is
0:57:59unreliable narrator did I break these
0:58:01girls camps in a sequence that I wasn't
0:58:02able to control during the plane did I
0:58:05set that fire like because people doubt
0:58:07you and you try to defend yourself with
0:58:09them is playing the game like well maybe
0:58:11that wasn't me or maybe is their
0:58:13conspiracy might just going nuts out
0:58:14here in the woods because that's
0:58:15something that happens right when you're
0:58:16on the woods to start going a little
0:58:17stir-crazy you start assuming things
0:58:19that are happening which is the whole
0:58:21core of the game
0:58:22yeah and people come out here and there
0:58:24you know they're not able to handle it
0:58:26and it you know this is a type of thing
0:58:27to drive to play and type game like this
0:58:29can go and one of the directors you can
0:58:30go whole hog you can do like a eternal
0:58:33darkness type thing where that becomes a
0:58:34game mechanic and you know the fighting
0:58:38off the trying to maintain your sanity
0:58:40or doubting what you see are not being
0:58:42able to trust what actually happens in
0:58:44the game and it just gets you know it
0:58:46just it starts off like oh you're in a
0:58:47fire watching by the end of the game
0:58:48like there could be aliens falling out
0:58:50of the sky and everything can't fire you
0:58:52wake up and you know or making all the
0:58:54direction this game did which is try to
0:58:56lead you in that direction and I thought
0:58:57it might only because I was like I don't
0:58:59care what they say about Henry I'm going
0:59:00to control i'm gonna say Henry keep it
0:59:02together
0:59:02you are not going nuts you probably
0:59:04didn't kill those girls I'm really
0:59:06hoping that's not what you did because I
0:59:07feel like that's not the kind of guy you
0:59:08are Henry and just keep it together in
0:59:11the end yet in the end it turns out to
0:59:13be a prosaic explanation and I think
0:59:16that is exactly what they wanted from
0:59:17this game and that he goes this place to
0:59:19escape and in some ways the fantasy of
0:59:22I've come to this place and there's a
0:59:25government conspiracy and people are
0:59:27watching me and who knows what's going
0:59:28on in this also seekers these woods that
0:59:31would be quite an escape from your
0:59:32real-life situation but in the end
0:59:34wherever you go there you are there's
0:59:35not a government conspiracies just one
0:59:36person you connected with over long
0:59:38distance from your watchtower and in the
0:59:40end you got to get back on a chopper and
0:59:42go back to civilization a place in the
0:59:44same expectations has gone home where
0:59:45you're expecting you're playing a game
0:59:47it there should be something there
0:59:48that's no really really weird how the
0:59:50ordinary look at government conspiracy
0:59:52and no it's just this where the occult
0:59:54or something yeah it's just like nope
0:59:56it's simpler than that but the theme of
0:59:58the theme of our watches that you are
0:59:58the theme of our watches that you are
1:00:00growing those words to escape your life
1:00:02the whole idea like that it takes that
1:00:04escape away from here to say you know
1:00:07that this character has come here to get
1:00:08away from all these things that he
1:00:10doesn't want to think about and wouldn't
1:00:12it be nice if there was this amazing
1:00:13adventure conspiracy to make him forget
1:00:15about all that become the hero of a new
1:00:16story but that's not the way it works in
1:00:19real life whereas and gone home you
1:00:21start thinking like oh is it you know is
1:00:23that they're going to be ghosts in this
1:00:24kitchen am I gonna you know like the
1:00:26bathtub with the red hair dye and
1:00:28everything and that is what goes beyond
1:00:30home is mostly subverting your
1:00:31expectations of game player this I feel
1:00:33like is subverting the expectations of
1:00:35the character within the game because
1:00:36the character within the game took this
1:00:38job to get away and the character within
1:00:41the game would be entirely susceptible
1:00:44to getting all wrapped up into this
1:00:46thing like who wouldn't and most people
1:00:48would because it's an exciting adventure
1:00:49but him even more so you know getting
1:00:51wrapped up with Delilah and and the
1:00:53things that are going on the mysteries
1:00:55of the woods and I think the character
1:00:56in the game we'd be just as disappointed
1:00:58as a lot of game players are the end of
1:01:00you realize though it was all just
1:01:01normal stuff and I got to get on the
1:01:03chopper
1:01:03well did everyone get on the chopper oh
1:01:05yeah you can ya do not know you can
1:01:07decide to go on tumblr
1:01:09that's a bad choice and presently that's
1:01:11the whole thing right the the weirdo in
1:01:13the root woods is like oh here you can
1:01:15have my bunker enjoy it right so you can
1:01:17like decided not to go under and ya go
1:01:20live in his creepy bunker or burn for
1:01:23burn them yeah which is yeah equality
1:01:25mukhtar Lucius yeah yeah I do not burn
1:01:29to death so somebody so explain this
1:01:31because of the war my problems with this
1:01:33with this guy i like the idea that you
1:01:36you get caught up in all of these things
1:01:37but it turns out the the that it's not
1:01:39as big story as you think i like that
1:01:42but there is a moment or a short series
1:01:45of moments late in this game where you
1:01:48get the radio thing this is oh they
1:01:49found the girls they're fine which takes
1:01:52up this whole like what happened to the
1:01:54girls did they did they leave they do
1:01:56this they get killed what happened to
1:01:58them you you get the end it's like up
1:02:00forgetting are we gonna get in trouble
1:02:01for not exactly bit of it there was some
1:02:03panic about the girls and in the middle
1:02:05of the game and yeah I kind of like
1:02:06wrapped it up for you but then it's just
1:02:08literally it's just like oh they found
1:02:10the girls are fine right all right is
1:02:12not home
1:02:13what happens if that's the way we like
1:02:14you're doing delilah or inventing this
1:02:16this possible drama in the ways it's a
1:02:18lot of like you know summer summer
1:02:20vacation where you go off and have this
1:02:21summer adventure to seem so important
1:02:23but in hindsight like nothing really
1:02:24happened it's just you and allow you
1:02:26have no outside input other than what
1:02:27she said she's communicating like there
1:02:29really is no voltage from the outside
1:02:31world so you can spend days going back
1:02:32and forth like where are those girls
1:02:34sure you didn't do anything do you
1:02:36believe me I know you believe but
1:02:37nothing is happening there's no new
1:02:38information available here
1:02:40you're just spinning out this tale
1:02:42amongst yourself because you have
1:02:43nothing else to do in the woods yeah and
1:02:44you're both like the dialogue get your
1:02:46like both kind of camping each other up
1:02:47about what's going on like there's one
1:02:49point that she's panicking and you're
1:02:50like calm down it's okay like we're
1:02:52gonna figure this out and then there's
1:02:53another point that you're like are you
1:02:54even real who are you what's happening
1:02:56am I talking to myself and then I can i
1:02:58peek of that they're they're suddenly
1:03:00afraid to talk about anything because
1:03:02they're being listened to
1:03:03right and and I'm not that work nicely
1:03:05and and that's that that's the thing I
1:03:06mean that that's a it's just kind of
1:03:07funny that it that it's just punctured
1:03:09so quickly but that the this
1:03:12I've never even heard of this place
1:03:14there's a killer to clipboard you're
1:03:15being listened to there's a government
1:03:17thing with a chain-link fence we don't
1:03:19know what it is we've never seen it
1:03:20before
1:03:21I'm gonna go break into it they've got
1:03:24you no records of our conversations oh
1:03:26and now it's on fire somebody explain to
1:03:29me what the story is with you without
1:03:33just know it's it's it's just a research
1:03:35station except Ned has planted things
1:03:37there to confuse you so he he's made it
1:03:39seem like they're spying on you like
1:03:41with everything he's got his little
1:03:43typewriter and he's he's making fake
1:03:45virus was found a little that was a
1:03:47little weak but he didn't make it even
1:03:49if you look at their he didn't make that
1:03:51many reports like if not report this
1:03:52one-page like he's not he's not even
1:03:54very good faking it because you're
1:03:56caught up in the game you're like oh
1:03:57this is stationed in this weird stuff
1:03:59and his BP things looks like city
1:04:0017-year I'm respecting it don't have to
1:04:02come out and attack me two seconds but
1:04:04and presumably he starts the fire
1:04:06yeah but you realize if you look at
1:04:08what's there it's like it's like three
1:04:10typewritten sheets of paper with radio
1:04:12interceptor always in relation with a
1:04:14boring science stuff that you don't
1:04:15understand right
1:04:17and generally found like that put that
1:04:18point of os just some crazy guy in the
1:04:20woods he's listening to in writing up
1:04:22fake reports like I found that a little
1:04:23strange
1:04:25and weak have a I don't know a guiding
1:04:28force through the game it's like it's
1:04:29building up all this like interesting
1:04:31stuff the tapping and you're going
1:04:33around exploring after get the ax you
1:04:34have to do this you have to do that
1:04:36you're walking all over the place and
1:04:37then all of a sudden it's like oh we
1:04:39found it was just like this crazy guy
1:04:40making like making stuff up like I'm
1:04:43like why would he do with the crazy guy
1:04:45do that i would much rather the
1:04:46government research have had like you
1:04:48break into it and you go down there and
1:04:50as you're leaving like a government
1:04:51scientists is like dude what are you
1:04:53doing you know and but punctures your
1:04:57your paranoia about it mom that would
1:05:00have felt more reasonable to me this is
1:05:02so such a kind of arcane collection of
1:05:04things that have been all constructed
1:05:06together and it's all in the mind of the
1:05:08crazy you know dad if the dead kid who
1:05:11lives in his Shack or in his cave and I
1:05:14don't know it seemed it seemed a little
1:05:15a little too much to me too i I'd almost
1:05:17rather have had it just being been
1:05:19revealed that the government research
1:05:20station is a yeah a government research
1:05:23station yeah they're just like had
1:05:24taking soil samples were just doing our
1:05:25job here did you feel down here guy like
1:05:28you're totally a weirdo thanks for
1:05:30breaking our lock i guess i got a spare
1:05:31i can put on it but come on I am so when
1:05:34you say with you you would not happen at
1:05:36all though you wanted that pressure let
1:05:38out of that little part there instead of
1:05:39kept hanging for too long it would have
1:05:41been nice if Ned didn't like plant
1:05:43evidence you know I mean like sure if
1:05:45you some creepy guy lift listening in on
1:05:47the radio conversations and like kind of
1:05:49you know scaring you here and there by
1:05:51like coughing or whatever you find out
1:05:53but and planting it in the government
1:05:55section it's like a little crazy
1:05:57mastermind ploy to tour and yet so far
1:06:00like that why would you know I i'll
1:06:03accept a certain amount of the crazy guy
1:06:05out in the woods but that seemed awfully
1:06:08detailed of a plot to I don't know it
1:06:13just seems like it I it took me out of
1:06:15the game because it seemed to like a
1:06:17little bit too much coincidence trying
1:06:20to tie those things together i'd almost
1:06:21rather they had remained they've been
1:06:23untied and it just had been our
1:06:25imagination completely separate from
1:06:27this crazy guy who was in the woods send
1:06:30us down we got so paranoid that we went
1:06:31down this other path I don't think he
1:06:33needed to be involved I don't think it
1:06:34needs to have a fire and be destroyed
1:06:37and all of those things that that
1:06:38seemed the idea that I was a little
1:06:40disappointed in like his final message
1:06:42that he leads leaves you because it kind
1:06:44of like it didn't feel like it was
1:06:46consistent with this person right like I
1:06:49mean are they grieving or they totally
1:06:51crazy but they're trying to manipulate
1:06:52you but they're gonna leave you a
1:06:54goodbye message
1:06:55yeah I guess you found the body now I'm
1:06:56gonna go deeper into the woods but you
1:06:58can have my cave
1:07:00yeah and i think the starry overall
1:07:02would have worked might work better if
1:07:03there was instead of being adults if it
1:07:05was young kids because again the whole
1:07:07thing kind of reminds me of like this x
1:07:08like summer camp where you will spin out
1:07:11this old world of what's going on at
1:07:12summer camp in the creepy cabin in
1:07:13reality nothing is going on anywhere
1:07:15just a cabin is not currently being used
1:07:16because they didn't get enough
1:07:18registrations for camp this year but as
1:07:19a kid especially a preteen can you can
1:07:22spin it out into this whole yeah sort of
1:07:24adventure that's going on and in the end
1:07:27in the end they will be a boring
1:07:28explanation may be that you won't even
1:07:30founder maybe when you find it you were
1:07:31rejected and always remember that as a
1:07:33summer of the Haunted camp and the
1:07:35midnight XD escapades or whatever I mean
1:07:37what if it had been instead of crazy old
1:07:38guy being there for three years what if
1:07:40it had been the Sun was living out there
1:07:42for a couple months because he doesn't
1:07:44know what to do because his dad died but
1:07:45I'm saying like if the player characters
1:07:47in the game like it Delilah and you were
1:07:48you know we're young children instead
1:07:50because young kids get caught up in
1:07:51these types of stories all the time as
1:07:52an adult what you would hope is that the
1:07:54adults would see what's going on is just
1:07:56prosaic and then like Jason saying is
1:07:59basically to get wrapped up and you
1:08:01think the game is leading up to become
1:08:02grants some grand conspiracy and then to
1:08:04find out it's just like you said one
1:08:05maniac too far
1:08:07that seems like something that as an
1:08:10adult you feel like you wouldn't you
1:08:12wouldn't fall for either you either it's
1:08:13gonna be unreliable narrator and it
1:08:15turns out that the nothing you've done
1:08:17and seen can be trusted because this guy
1:08:18is really damaged and that could be
1:08:20entirely different game but if it is
1:08:21this game is essentially reliable
1:08:23narrator everything you see exactly
1:08:24happens exactly the way it does and you
1:08:26can argue with I'll about it but in the
1:08:27end it's just a series of normal events
1:08:29it does seem kind of anti climactic to
1:08:32to have a turn out to be as simple and
1:08:36straightforward as as the the story is I
1:08:38disagree because i feel like in the
1:08:41moment as you're playing the game you've
1:08:43been there for three hours you discover
1:08:44the government facility they're set on
1:08:46fire things are going crazy and you're
1:08:48wondering what the heck is going on and
1:08:50then you figure out that it's entirely
1:08:51Ned and when you figure that out that's
1:08:54Ned the force is burning up around you
1:08:56you found a whole cavern you're freaked
1:08:58out because you're led to another
1:09:00tracking area it says for Henry go up
1:09:03and you're freaking out and you're
1:09:04thinking about what you need to do next
1:09:06and you need to get through to delilahs
1:09:09lookouts and get in the chopper for me
1:09:11when I went to his cabin for the first
1:09:12time I barely looked around I looked at
1:09:15a few things and sprint it out because I
1:09:16was terrified of the fire and to me that
1:09:20made everything else in the game take a
1:09:21backseat to your relationship with
1:09:23Delilah and that was just the last nail
1:09:25in the coffin for like this game is all
1:09:28about you and Delilah and nothing about
1:09:30any of the red herrings because you're
1:09:32right everything else that happens with
1:09:33Ned and brian is relatively tame so I
1:09:36feel like instead of saying it's
1:09:38anticlimactic for that one magical
1:09:40perfect playthrough you have at the very
1:09:41beginning it works perfectly because you
1:09:44discover that you run over and then the
1:09:47last moments of the game are when you
1:09:49talk to the lila on the headset in her
1:09:51lookout and that is where the little
1:09:53signature of the game leaves its mark
1:09:55and says hey this is your emotional
1:09:57wreck right now because of everything
1:09:59else now here we are sitting and talking
1:10:02about how how not problematic how tame
1:10:05it was and i agree i feel like there
1:10:07could be much more done to paint Ned as
1:10:09this crazy guy maybe a more sinister
1:10:12last thing instead
1:10:13yeah I ran out books but there could
1:10:15have been more there but I feel like
1:10:16instead of going in the direction of tie
1:10:18everything together more if there could
1:10:20be more in the direction of let's make
1:10:22net a crazier character and let the
1:10:24chips fall where they may because you
1:10:25know what that's like maybe someone in
1:10:27the woods is actually doing something to
1:10:28screw with you and make your summer
1:10:31miserable i don't know but either way
1:10:32that's life and for me that makes
1:10:34Delilah's relationship all the more
1:10:36important in the game because we're
1:10:38going from the game is that they want it
1:10:40to be that they want you
1:10:42the game is about going to escape and
1:10:44realizing there is no escape that from
1:10:46yourself and from you your issues and
1:10:47problems that like allowed the
1:10:48relationship allows a similar way like
1:10:50they're not particularly subtle subtle
1:10:51about it and they realize that most
1:10:53people playing the game trying as well
1:10:56as they can to try to make Henry make
1:10:58better choices are going to as i did
1:11:00when i play resist the idea that
1:11:02suddenly there's going two
1:11:03anything romantic between you and
1:11:04Delilah because you're still married and
1:11:06you should still care about your wife
1:11:08and like when they have you leaving the
1:11:09cabin they have your wedding ring
1:11:10strategically place but the door and
1:11:12choose to put on or not like it really
1:11:14hits you over the head but it's clear
1:11:15they want you two to think about these
1:11:17issues and and make choices and I mean
1:11:21like I don't you know I you and I would
1:11:22say that that is the the overall it's a
1:11:24it's a strange is a strange game to give
1:11:27that kind of message the idea that
1:11:28people have problems in their life and a
1:11:33lot of times it seems like you can
1:11:34escape with them through some other kind
1:11:36of adventure but in the end you have to
1:11:38come back and face them and no matter
1:11:40what you do you're gonna find yourself
1:11:41in an empty cabin talking to Delilah
1:11:44over her own headset and she's gone
1:11:46right and he and you know you know and
1:11:49what you have to do is go back to your
1:11:50wife and that i think was the game is
1:11:53trying to get so if if there was
1:11:55something exciting and consequential
1:11:56like you busted this big conspiracy or
1:11:58found out the earth is hollow and filled
1:12:00with more locks like that whoa that's
1:12:02the knot the game they were making at
1:12:04all like that would be like this is
1:12:06great in the beginning I was sad because
1:12:08my wife was i but I set my wife back to
1:12:10Australia or whatever but now this is
1:12:11great i'm saving the world's reserves
1:12:13conspiracy is a lot of games you can
1:12:15murder Morlocks we don't need any more
1:12:16of those right there are discovered them
1:12:18or any kind of you like it has to be it
1:12:20has to be a story that like that doesn't
1:12:24you know that there isn't some big grand
1:12:26thing that you are doing we got to be
1:12:27particularly heroic or save the day or
1:12:29anything like that it has to lead you
1:12:31back to yourself
1:12:32no I like the the thing that I thought
1:12:35is really the culmination of this story
1:12:37is when you have to go down in the cave
1:12:38and you find the dead body and that
1:12:41reveals that is what unravels the story
1:12:44and so that's that's your crowning
1:12:45moment is this really sad thing where is
1:12:49this kid fell and died and did he fall
1:12:53well yes yes he fell John that I mean I
1:12:56think the game mostly leave that open
1:12:58yeah I suppose but there's ways we don't
1:13:00use on we he fell how he fell remains to
1:13:03be seen but he fell a long way I think
1:13:05it's a little too well stage for it to
1:13:08be a fall
1:13:08I don't like the rocks are covering his
1:13:10header but I do leave it open i mean
1:13:11because you know medical crazy from the
1:13:13loss of his son or like I mean that his
1:13:16son also said that
1:13:17and like climbing so maybe his dad was
1:13:19forcing them to climb over like it
1:13:20doesn't really matter in the end that's
1:13:22not a key plot point in the game but I
1:13:24do i do feel like that is a court moment
1:13:26because you know I when I going through
1:13:27the cave
1:13:28I realized that the Sun was probably
1:13:30dead down there just because I played a
1:13:32lot of games right a lot of stories but
1:13:33even saying you even saying there is
1:13:35there you see that she was a shoot you
1:13:37again as a lot again heavily Telegraph
1:13:40but even even knowing that and even
1:13:41having accepted that from early on i
1:13:43still found it affecting when I on the
1:13:44bottom music cue starts up then and it's
1:13:47a it's a very it and you do feel like
1:13:49you discovered even though obviously you
1:13:51can led to this point through a series
1:13:53of things that you basically have no
1:13:54choice in a felt very very nervous
1:13:56stepping over the body like that was the
1:13:58only option down there and I was like
1:14:00three I felt really weird and very
1:14:02uncomfortable and that way like you know
1:14:05at that point like I wanted to have a
1:14:06conversation with Delilah and you have
1:14:08to get out of the cave before you can do
1:14:10that yeah that yeah you could also be a
1:14:12real bastard to her like after that if i
1:14:16accidentally was and that changes your
1:14:18relationship with her a time you could
1:14:20be like well it's totally your fault
1:14:22because you didn't radio this in and
1:14:25she's like what how dare you say that to
1:14:27me like she gets pissed and you're like
1:14:28everything's kind of ruined after that a
1:14:30little bit but i did that by accident it
1:14:32wasn't my fault but yeah it totally did
1:14:35anyone everyone was probably really nice
1:14:38we're not monsters yes I'm obviously a
1:14:40monster it was an accident i was playing
1:14:42on the on the playstation and the button
1:14:45it was dark i don't know you want two
1:14:46people want to talk about the camera
1:14:48my understanding is that if you're
1:14:49playing on the computer you get to take
1:14:51pictures and have the whole help to the
1:14:53end in that you can have them print them
1:14:56out and send them to you later
1:14:58yeah i thought that was a really fun
1:15:00touch i kept having these moments where
1:15:01I thought oh I gotta take a picture of
1:15:03this which I just thought was all a lot
1:15:05of fun to to have that as a mechanic and
1:15:07in the game that is pointless
1:15:09it has nothing to do with anything it's
1:15:11just you're taking pictures of your stay
1:15:15in the wilderness on this camera i used
1:15:17it to document what i considered
1:15:19evidence so I went into pictures of your
1:15:22side
1:15:23I just I took a photo of his crazy wall
1:15:26before we left the lookout station for
1:15:28the last time yeah me too but may I took
1:15:30photos of you know I I knew it was going
1:15:33to be saving my photos so i took
1:15:34beautiful nature photography and then I
1:15:36got to the end of the game and realized
1:15:37that if you play it on the PlayStation 4
1:15:39you don't get to get prints of your
1:15:41photos oh I really hope they add that
1:15:43because i took some awesome pictures can
1:15:45you share them on the way you're getting
1:15:47that you can't even see it on about man
1:15:49that's too bad it's like when you are
1:15:51John when you get the credit they show
1:15:52you the pictures that you tip yep that's
1:15:54all I know they came out good yeah they
1:15:55should they do show your pictures but
1:15:56you don't get the web the URL you can go
1:15:58to and you don't get to order prints i'm
1:16:00always did it the first time I didn't
1:16:01get to do that so I played it again on
1:16:03steam and it was iight i started playing
1:16:05my second place endurance team to start
1:16:06I can make up for that i found the
1:16:08gameplay even better on steam actually
1:16:10then with the controller on the
1:16:11PlayStation of course the I mean that
1:16:13the nice touch in the disposable camera
1:16:16is that it belonged to brian and brian
1:16:20and and so as you go back you see all
1:16:23the pictures that you took and then you
1:16:24see the pictures that he took yep yep
1:16:26it's a nice thats that's that that's
1:16:29your last little punch that you get as
1:16:31you forgot that too is also internet
1:16:32using the Sun yeah I want to ask anyone
1:16:36else in the very very beginning when you
1:16:37first get into the woods like after
1:16:39you've kind of established our base and
1:16:41you're walking around there's a spot
1:16:43where you can hear wind chimes and you
1:16:45drove me crazy i couldn't find them
1:16:48anywhere and then at the very end of the
1:16:50game you hear the wind chimes in you
1:16:52know the crazy guys hang out Ned right
1:16:54that's his name
1:16:55whose banana guys know that created you
1:16:58hear the wind chimes where he has like
1:16:59that lawn chair on his little like you
1:17:01know vista terrace that he made and I
1:17:04figured out that the wind chimes you
1:17:07hear when you're in the woods have to be
1:17:08those right yeah it'sit's uh according
1:17:10to the reddit post about it whenever you
1:17:13go below his window in the game you hear
1:17:17this faint chime and then you don't get
1:17:19to it until the end I thought that was a
1:17:21really nice touch
1:17:22I know because its overall fall out
1:17:24where they make it like it's just if you
1:17:26happen to find that I out on day one
1:17:28the game is over because that's that's
1:17:30the title again a different type of game
1:17:31that can be fun for starting out of
1:17:33people but it all
1:17:34requires a bigger budget and some people
1:17:35find not fun so uh let's listen in while
1:17:38wrapping up here i would like to get
1:17:40your final sort of final judgments final
1:17:43verdict on fire watch as a whole and how
1:17:46you how you how you view it overall
1:17:49everybody's been pretty positive but I
1:17:51want to check in with everybody and get
1:17:52a get a closing remark Tony what's your
1:17:55thought about Firewatch overall I think
1:17:57generally positive i enjoyed it i would
1:17:59recommend it to people especially if
1:18:01they liked other story games like gone
1:18:03home for the walking dead games or
1:18:06things like that i mean i think there
1:18:07are a lot of gamers out there who seemed
1:18:09to really hate those games and be angry
1:18:11that they exist which is a not you know
1:18:16I don't know it's sad
1:18:17there are so many existence of this key
1:18:20does not hurt you
1:18:21there are a thousand games where you can
1:18:23be a space marine the existence of the
1:18:25same does not mean one less space marine
1:18:27game there's still more space brain
1:18:29games and you can never play so yeah I
1:18:32enjoyed it i'm always looking for more
1:18:34good story games out there Brian what
1:18:37are your final thoughts any more games
1:18:40just like Tony said where I can have a
1:18:42non-gamer friend over and like get a few
1:18:45beers and play through a game like I
1:18:47would play or watch a movie with them i
1:18:49am 100-percent sold this game to me at
1:18:51least is worth getting a ps4 or making
1:18:54sure you have a good mac to play cuz my
1:18:572012 mac pro macbook pro did not i do
1:19:02this very well at all
1:19:04yeah my 5k imac did just fine so I was
1:19:07having my 2011 macbook pro had some
1:19:10exciting framerate issues but it but I
1:19:12made it through that was its good friend
1:19:14what are your final thoughts on fire
1:19:16watch I thought it was incredibly moving
1:19:20despite its in like little flaws I i
1:19:23have the same sort of overwhelming
1:19:25missed feels that I've had with other
1:19:27games like this with games like got home
1:19:29I did I will admit I had to spoil myself
1:19:32somewhat as soon as I as soon as i got
1:19:36knocked out i had to spoil myself
1:19:38because I was so terrified that this was
1:19:41going to go in a direction that i did
1:19:42not want that i was going to be like I
1:19:44can't play this game it's going to make
1:19:45me unhappy
1:19:46i spelled myself just enough to know
1:19:48that they were gonna be there were going
1:19:50to be any guns in the game and then
1:19:51continues I was like okay I can I can
1:19:54enjoy myself but I i thought the game
1:19:58was wildly affecting primarily because
1:20:01of the way that the story interact with
1:20:03nature and plays off your sort of your
1:20:07feelings about Izzy how how everything
1:20:11can get heightened in the woods how
1:20:12everything can get twisted and turned
1:20:14out of proportion and you know the
1:20:16sounds and music and freaky wind chimes
1:20:19and random abandoned houses in the in
1:20:23the middle of the woods
1:20:24even if they don't have anything you
1:20:26know any regard to the primary plot they
1:20:28still they still capture you they still
1:20:31they still make you excited and
1:20:32terrified to know what's going on a
1:20:35disembodied voices so great I i really
1:20:39enjoyed playing it I want to play it
1:20:41through again exhale only played it
1:20:43through once i want to play it through
1:20:45again and make some slightly different
1:20:47choices because I i think the voice
1:20:49acting in this game was magnificent and
1:20:52I really I kind of just want to hear
1:20:54more of more of the various dialogue
1:20:56that they had that the actors record
1:20:58because i really enjoy I enjoy listening
1:21:01to Henry and Delilah targets at this is
1:21:03really really good banter
1:21:04it's a good great audio
1:21:06choose-your-own-adventure overall I
1:21:09thought it was was really nice it it
1:21:12reminded me a lot of gone home and and
1:21:16hit me the same way that braid did in a
1:21:18strange way i'm just kinda with the with
1:21:21the uncomfortable feels the i'm not
1:21:25really sure if I like you you feel
1:21:27embarrassed you also feel like you
1:21:29learned something and and there's a
1:21:33sense of wistfulness and longing and
1:21:34more most of all it made me want to get
1:21:38off of the computer and go to Lake Tahoe
1:21:40and spend a weekend in the woods today I
1:21:42definitely had that like yeah let's go
1:21:45take a hike now I can watch out for
1:21:47crazy people at the f10 with your final
1:21:49verdict done
1:21:50Firewatch i did like it I I came around
1:21:53to it but i love the little details that
1:21:55that build character in addition to the
1:21:58tremendously great voice acting and dial
1:22:00like when you can find a hat in the very
1:22:02beginning and then like the hats there
1:22:03with you and if you don't find the hat
1:22:05then you don't have a hat and the every
1:22:08time he left the watchtower he'd grab
1:22:11the ledge to like swing down stairs like
1:22:13that's it's so human and like you get
1:22:16really drawn in with moments like that
1:22:18or you know with them
1:22:20Delilah's final drawing of you like
1:22:23however you answered how you look that's
1:22:25how the drawing was on her desk and with
1:22:27little inside jokes that you made or
1:22:29didn't make throughout the game are are
1:22:32all there or they're not there and so I
1:22:34really enjoyed all of those attention to
1:22:37detail that's you know most people
1:22:39wouldn't find but the people that do
1:22:41find it have that little bit of delight
1:22:43when they when they play but I'm you
1:22:46know I would have liked it to be you
1:22:47know a strong lady going through the
1:22:49woods who fell in love with the wire I
1:22:51thought that might have been a little
1:22:52different that would have been cool
1:22:53twist on it but I think as it as it
1:22:56played out it was a really great game
1:22:57and they did a really great job with the
1:22:59budget they had John what's your verdict
1:23:01so I tend to like story games like this
1:23:03for myself like I like to play them but
1:23:05i also like to recommend them because
1:23:07Firewatch unlike so many games these
1:23:10days for the most part does not ask you
1:23:12to do something dexterity wise with a
1:23:16time limit with a purpose that doesn't
1:23:18ask you to memorize the move set to jump
1:23:21on moving platforms to shoot things in
1:23:24general no matter how clumsy you are
1:23:27from moment to moment with the
1:23:29controller or the mouse and the keyboard
1:23:30you can you you will be successful in
1:23:34the game is a lot of games that don't
1:23:35have any states where you can die so
1:23:37easily or they're not asking you to do a
1:23:39mechanic they're not a virtual athletic
1:23:42competition and that lets more people
1:23:44enjoy the things that the games you are
1:23:47uniquely positioned to do so I i like
1:23:50the type of game for myself is just kind
1:23:51of a break-in to enjoy different types
1:23:52of games it lets games look beautiful
1:23:55like this game looks because those
1:23:56people because the Gamemakers can put
1:23:58their money and their effort into other
1:23:59places like the scenery or the the
1:24:02dialogue or the voice acting
1:24:04whereas if you spend the entire game
1:24:05hunting game development process holding
1:24:07a game engine for some you know
1:24:08shooter a platformer you don't have time
1:24:10for that the stuff so that's one respect
1:24:12that I really really love this game of
1:24:14the other thing is the more unique to
1:24:16this game than the other games is I like
1:24:19the fact that this game was even though
1:24:20structurally so similar to the games
1:24:22we've all mentioned that are generally
1:24:24not hand-eye coordination games have
1:24:26dialogue trees have a story have
1:24:28branching plots of varying degrees that
1:24:31this game was different than those in
1:24:33that it was a different kind of story in
1:24:35a different kind of setting with things
1:24:38that we didn't expect we spend most of
1:24:39this podcast talking about how this game
1:24:43subverted your expectations of having a
1:24:45protagonist who was include the
1:24:46admirable of having to forcing you to
1:24:48inhabit this character has bad things
1:24:49happen to them of having a plot that
1:24:51doesn't follow the traditional structure
1:24:53culminating in some grand conspiracy of
1:24:55having time a melancholy bummer kind of
1:24:58climax and resolution of the story and
1:25:02there's a lot of sameness and games even
1:25:04within the games are doing now isn't
1:25:05gone home totally different than you
1:25:07know
1:25:08call of duty you're not going home is
1:25:09different call of duty but there's still
1:25:11so much greater range of the games can
1:25:14take even if you think like the range of
1:25:16novels and movies are still much broader
1:25:18than the envelope of things that games
1:25:19feel like they're allowed to do if this
1:25:21was a movie no my bad not like oh this
1:25:23is really breaking new ground for motors
1:25:24plenty of movies about people in the
1:25:26woods who are sad weird things happen to
1:25:28you and you don't think anything of it
1:25:29but four games to do that I think that's
1:25:32one of the most important things this
1:25:33game does it shows you don't have to
1:25:35tell the same kind of stories in the
1:25:36same kind of way in the same kind of
1:25:38settings all the time and granted yet is
1:25:41big you know the w white dude who is the
1:25:43main character I can't break ground on
1:25:45all fronts but I just like I was like
1:25:47the idea that it is that is definitely a
1:25:50different weird kind of game even if it
1:25:52doesn't appeal to people and you're like
1:25:53you know what I would like a different
1:25:55kind of game this game and it's weird
1:25:57and didn't didn't quite work for me I
1:25:59want there to be more games like this so
1:26:02even though i think something like gone
1:26:05home was like a tighter and better
1:26:08realized in the end fire watches its own
1:26:10unique snowflake that I'm just glad
1:26:12exist and i want to see I'm glad he's
1:26:15doing well financially it seems to be
1:26:17anyway because i want to see more people
1:26:18say I'm
1:26:19a weird idea for a game to like and you
1:26:21know anything summer-like text
1:26:23adventures and much more adventurous how
1:26:24you can type whatever you want i can
1:26:25text adventures about anything I want
1:26:28more games like Firewatch time I really
1:26:30enjoy playing it now I i agree fifteen
1:26:32or twenty dollars and three or four
1:26:34hours i wish there were more games that
1:26:37this is the kind of game I want to play
1:26:39I don't want to invest in a game that's
1:26:43good i'm going to put 200 hours in
1:26:44because I'm never gonna put 200 or 100
1:26:46or 50 or 20 hours in a game i'm just not
1:26:49going to do it but something like this
1:26:51which is substantial to me it's more
1:26:55than a movie but it's also not a thing
1:26:58that i have to you know just become a
1:27:00lifestyle either i really like these
1:27:02kinds of games i would love to play more
1:27:03of them
1:27:04I I i think it's interesting that this
1:27:06character is kind of off-putting but I I
1:27:10found him I found him off putting to but
1:27:12I guess that's part of the point is is
1:27:14your you know you're trying to be put in
1:27:16a position like we were saying where you
1:27:18know wherever you go there you are you
1:27:20know we're not happy he's not happy with
1:27:22himself and we're not happy with him and
1:27:23we're him too so I like that about it
1:27:26and I'm what I will take away from it is
1:27:27the beauty as much as like kind of
1:27:29quibble with the red herrings and the
1:27:31ultimate resolution of this mystery and
1:27:35I wish it was a little more puncturing
1:27:37of just like oh there are no mysteries
1:27:39that was all in your head there's
1:27:40there's just these different things i
1:27:42would have liked that I think better i
1:27:44will walk away with the memory of
1:27:46wandering around in the woods and that
1:27:49was really great and it was beautiful
1:27:51and it was fun and I I you know I can't
1:27:53believe that I did it but I actually
1:27:55advocated for more boring wandering and
1:27:59looking at the woods because i actually
1:28:01thought that was really great and
1:28:02feeling like that's a thing that game
1:28:05can do is make you feel like you're
1:28:07living in this world that it's it's
1:28:09immersive in a way that in the end it
1:28:10becomes a real space that you have
1:28:12memories of being in this space even
1:28:15though it's not a real space and you
1:28:18weren't actually in it you know I that
1:28:20is the kind of magic the games can do
1:28:22that no other form can really do that
1:28:26that feeling like your computer there
1:28:28and and I will always appreciate that
1:28:32about fire
1:28:32because of how beautiful that world was
1:28:34so just wait for fire watch vr imagine
1:28:38then you'll know you'll never need to go
1:28:40anywhere to take a hike in the woods
1:28:43alright well we're going to close up the
1:28:44old video game video game door to the
1:28:48clubhouse for now but hopefully there
1:28:50will be another game that will emerge at
1:28:52some point in the near future that we
1:28:54will we will reconvene and because i
1:28:56would like to play more games like this
1:28:58one like fire watch I'd like to thank my
1:29:01panel for joining me to talk about a
1:29:02video game Tony sindelar thank you Jason
1:29:06was fun
1:29:07Tiffany are meant thank you thank you
1:29:09already called well thanks feel better
1:29:12Thank You president Hamilton thanks for
1:29:14being here very happy to be here thank
1:29:16you so much
1:29:17and of course John siracusa thank you
1:29:19about like 650 hours and destiny i'm
1:29:22going to be really prepared for destiny
1:29:23podcast we have it
1:29:25ok already did that so noted thanks
1:29:28everybody out there for listening we
1:29:29will see you next time
1:29:32[Music]
1:29:50you know when I first heard the term
1:29:55walking simulator I thought it was just
1:29:57a mean person on the Internet calling
1:29:58these games like claiming just walk
1:30:01around your house it's same thing you
1:30:02think is better and that's the walking
1:30:03simulator but when I went on steam it's
1:30:07an actual genre in their directory for
1:30:11video games is walking simulators and I
1:30:14thought really this is what we're
1:30:15calling these now they're they're much
1:30:17more than that that's not a no as I said
1:30:20I think I don't know another product
1:30:21number which one that they did the
1:30:22dawning of the the true vr worker when
1:30:25the one of the largest categories and
1:30:27most profitable categories games as
1:30:29literal hiking simulators where there is
1:30:31no game of the biggest people hiking in
1:30:33the woods all the time there's no game
1:30:34they're like you just go in the woods
1:30:35because it's a beautiful place to be and
1:30:37you so much to our people gamefly
1:30:39everything so you know I don't mean like
1:30:41like accept these are called walking
1:30:43simulator is somewhat drizzly is like
1:30:45all you just kind of going through a
1:30:46story but not like literally like this
1:30:48we have like you know truck simulator is
1:30:50driver talking about the country at
1:30:51least thing you're driving something
1:30:52like hiking simulator is it is just
1:30:55woods man that's it get a little Zen
1:30:58kind of some people they will only
1:31:00settle for murder simulators that's not
1:31:01dating you know I started playing euro
1:31:03truck simulator and I don't do any of
1:31:05the game stuff I just drive around and
1:31:07listen to podcasts and it's amazing like
1:31:08i feel bad and the game developers who
1:31:11actually put a really deep game in there
1:31:13i do nothing with it