The Incomparable

290: Team Bucket


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00:00:16   go to IT pro dot TV / smell and use the [TS]

00:00:20   code smell the incomparable number 290 [TS]

00:00:28   mar 2016 [TS]

00:00:32   welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:33   uncomfortable on your hostess and smell [TS]

00:00:35   and we're going to open up the video [TS]

00:00:38   game Dusty covers of the video game club [TS]

00:00:40   which doesn't get to work out that often [TS]

00:00:42   but they're back to talk about it [TS]

00:00:44   recently released the game probably fire [TS]

00:00:47   watch from campo santo and published by [TS]

00:00:49   Panik available for Windows OS 10 linux [TS]

00:00:53   and if you get a ps4 it will work on [TS]

00:00:55   their to joining me to talk about this [TS]

00:00:58   recent release video game which I so [TS]

00:01:01   rarely play but i did this time it's [TS]

00:01:03   very exciting are my panelists fine [TS]

00:01:05   group all brian hamilton hello [TS]

00:01:07   wait we're not here to play wizards in [TS]

00:01:09   wyvern's I wait for it [TS]

00:01:12   Tiffany arms is back to talk more video [TS]

00:01:14   games hello hi it's good to have you [TS]

00:01:17   serenity Caldwell's out there [TS]

00:01:19   hello hello hello it's the ghost of [TS]

00:01:22   serenity called my flu racked ghost but [TS]

00:01:24   she's and I'm trying to imitate what it [TS]

00:01:26   might sound like coming through [TS]

00:01:27   walkie-talkie oh nice Tony sindelar is [TS]

00:01:30   scanning the forest hi Tony high and [TS]

00:01:33   John siracusa of course because we're [TS]

00:01:35   talking about video games i'm glad i [TS]

00:01:37   don't see any progress bar counting down [TS]

00:01:39   when i'm asked to reply on the show [TS]

00:01:40   wait you don't see that it's there it's [TS]

00:01:43   in mind it's in my mind the the why is [TS]

00:01:46   my answer will move on i have I want to [TS]

00:01:49   start this bob so that this is [TS]

00:01:51   interesting I guess disclosure here is [TS]

00:01:54   many of us know the people at Panik who [TS]

00:01:56   published this game although i don't [TS]

00:01:58   know anybody at campo santo who produced [TS]

00:02:01   it and i really only saw a preview of it [TS]

00:02:05   XOXO last fall but uh that's all really [TS]

00:02:08   I knew about it and I played a couple [TS]

00:02:13   weeks ago I my only other bit of [TS]

00:02:15   disclosure if this is an opening [TS]

00:02:17   statement so be it is when i was i just [TS]

00:02:19   graduated from college in 1992 i worked [TS]

00:02:25   for the summer at my local newspaper [TS]

00:02:27   back home and one of the stories that i [TS]

00:02:30   wrote was about a guy named herb who was [TS]

00:02:33   a fire spotter and he lived for the [TS]

00:02:36   summer in a single room platform at the [TS]

00:02:39   top of a mountain and look for smoke [TS]

00:02:43   from forest fires and radioed them in [TS]

00:02:45   I went out to the to the fire tower and [TS]

00:02:49   interviewed him and so to see a game [TS]

00:02:52   based on that premise is sort of tickled [TS]

00:02:54   me and i can say that it pretty much [TS]

00:02:57   jobs with my my memory of his fire tower [TS]

00:03:01   the setting of the fire tower and fire [TS]

00:03:03   watch so yeah I got I got kind of a kick [TS]

00:03:05   out of it [TS]

00:03:05   it wasn't a two-day hike to get there [TS]

00:03:07   which is part of the plot of a Firewatch [TS]

00:03:09   so so far watches a it's a it's a game [TS]

00:03:13   where you are you're Henry who too is [TS]

00:03:17   working in Wyoming in the National [TS]

00:03:19   Forest as a fire spotter so he has got [TS]

00:03:22   his he takes a two day hike and goes to [TS]

00:03:25   this tower where he can overlook the [TS]

00:03:28   forest and he can see off to another [TS]

00:03:30   Ridge where there's another tower in [TS]

00:03:32   which is Delilah who is another person [TS]

00:03:36   working at sapphire spotter and she sort [TS]

00:03:38   of his manager and then we have a sort [TS]

00:03:42   of adventure and discussion and [TS]

00:03:44   flashbacks of hit of what has brought [TS]

00:03:46   Henry to this point and that is what [TS]

00:03:49   Firewatch is all about [TS]

00:03:52   I so love what would people think i'm [TS]

00:03:56   gonna start here [TS]

00:03:57   Firewatch opens with an interesting [TS]

00:04:00   structure where you are sort of in a [TS]

00:04:04   series of flashbacks about how you get [TS]

00:04:06   to the lookout and it's not sort of just [TS]

00:04:11   a prologue that gets you there but a [TS]

00:04:13   series of choices you've got to make and [TS]

00:04:16   they're kind of interlaced with arriving [TS]

00:04:19   in the in the forest and i'm curious [TS]

00:04:22   what everybody thought about the way [TS]

00:04:24   that the story starts it is incredibly [TS]

00:04:27   cinematic especially because it [TS]

00:04:29   completely breaks that the expectation [TS]

00:04:33   that this is going to be you know that [TS]

00:04:34   kind of cinematic game with those with [TS]

00:04:37   those text adventure bits we get to [TS]

00:04:40   choose what you say in the bar and we [TS]

00:04:43   say on the balcony and things like that [TS]

00:04:45   and then goes back to these beautifully [TS]

00:04:48   faded in faded out moments they are [TS]

00:04:49   timed perfectly [TS]

00:04:51   it feels this is the most playable [TS]

00:04:53   movie-style game ever played that's [TS]

00:04:56   different than a lot of the [TS]

00:04:58   the games that use the same mechanics [TS]

00:04:59   where they will be text on the screen [TS]

00:05:01   and you have a series of choices very [TS]

00:05:03   early on in the intro sequence which by [TS]

00:05:05   the way is not really what the rest of [TS]

00:05:07   the game is like it yeah we're like a [TS]

00:05:08   pre credits type sequence where they [TS]

00:05:10   make your picture is is it becomes clear [TS]

00:05:11   if you've played a lot of these [TS]

00:05:13   adventures that this is mostly not going [TS]

00:05:16   to be one of those games where they [TS]

00:05:18   present you with the series of choices [TS]

00:05:20   and based on your choices you are [TS]

00:05:21   defining your character very early on [TS]

00:05:23   they force you to make a series of [TS]

00:05:26   choices [TS]

00:05:27   none of which certainly some bad choices [TS]

00:05:29   the corner corner code good choices you [TS]

00:05:32   because that's the type of game you can [TS]

00:05:33   play a lot of a lot of games that are [TS]

00:05:35   like they give you a range of choices [TS]

00:05:36   where you can decide what kind of person [TS]

00:05:39   you want to be but this game is [TS]

00:05:40   different this game has an idea of who [TS]

00:05:42   this character is or needs to be for the [TS]

00:05:44   purposes of the story and you are forced [TS]

00:05:46   to essentially choose from several what [TS]

00:05:49   you might consider bad choices which [TS]

00:05:51   isn't necessarily a bad thing but it [TS]

00:05:53   definitely frames this game is even [TS]

00:05:54   though it has the trappings of the you [TS]

00:05:56   know sort of that the tell-tale style [TS]

00:05:58   games like The Walking Dead or whatever [TS]

00:05:59   where you're expecting someone to say [TS]

00:06:00   you know you know Kerry will remember [TS]

00:06:03   this or whatever I this is more like you [TS]

00:06:06   are the person saying that you'll [TS]

00:06:07   remember this because although there are [TS]

00:06:09   many different choices there [TS]

00:06:12   this is not a role-playing game you [TS]

00:06:13   don't get to define Henry Henry is a [TS]

00:06:15   person you have to sort of inhabit him [TS]

00:06:17   for the course of the game also in all [TS]

00:06:19   of my playthroughs none of the different [TS]

00:06:21   choices you make really affect anything [TS]

00:06:23   in the long run just how you relate to [TS]

00:06:25   Henry and Delilah and I i think the [TS]

00:06:26   opening I think Johnny said I really [TS]

00:06:28   well in terms of you inhabit him and I [TS]

00:06:30   thought the opening did a really great [TS]

00:06:31   job of like placing you inside of him [TS]

00:06:33   pretty quickly and pretty efficiently [TS]

00:06:35   and elegantly thoroughly I have to say [TS]

00:06:37   something about that CSI i'm really [TS]

00:06:39   curious how serenity you feel about it [TS]

00:06:41   too in that when i started playing this [TS]

00:06:43   game I had a really hard time connecting [TS]

00:06:45   to it because it's such a personal [TS]

00:06:47   emotional embodiment of the game and I i [TS]

00:06:50   guess as like a woman playing this game [TS]

00:06:53   I couldn't get into it as much because I [TS]

00:06:57   felt already like this game wasn't [TS]

00:06:59   supposed to be made for me a little bit [TS]

00:07:02   because of I'm not Henry know what i [TS]

00:07:05   mean like i didn't i didn't feel the [TS]

00:07:07   same way Henry was failing are doing the [TS]

00:07:09   same thing Henry was doing because I did [TS]

00:07:10   I just felt like I don't [TS]

00:07:11   I I relate more when I can play as a [TS]

00:07:14   female character and I think that a game [TS]

00:07:15   specifically like this where it is so [TS]

00:07:19   personal and it's so emotional and it's [TS]

00:07:22   so specific to you are as you guys said [TS]

00:07:25   like embodied inside of Henry I felt [TS]

00:07:28   disconnected from that and so that but [TS]

00:07:32   you know that bothered me a little bit [TS]

00:07:33   when i played this videogame the second [TS]

00:07:35   time i was able to kind of like let that [TS]

00:07:37   go a little bit more but it's still it [TS]

00:07:39   you know guys don't have to you know [TS]

00:07:41   when you see a game like this you don't [TS]

00:07:42   have to worry about is this game made [TS]

00:07:44   for me because it is and you don't have [TS]

00:07:46   to think like that you're gonna feel [TS]

00:07:48   differently about the character because [TS]

00:07:51   it just is made for you so I don't know [TS]

00:07:53   I I had a little bit of a hard time [TS]

00:07:55   connecting ya know I i definitely agree [TS]

00:07:58   with you in the beginning especially [TS]

00:08:00   those sort of initial us as well as [TS]

00:08:03   you're describing very cinematic scenes [TS]

00:08:05   to me it it there was a little bit of a [TS]

00:08:08   disconnect from it because yeah it's [TS]

00:08:12   it's very hard to be like yes I am a [TS]

00:08:14   late twenties college dude who drinks a [TS]

00:08:18   lot [TS]

00:08:18   and these are my motivations and this is [TS]

00:08:20   whom like it takes it took a little bit [TS]

00:08:23   for me to not only get the character but [TS]

00:08:28   to feel like I could uh huh [TS]

00:08:31   actually i'll be honest like there are [TS]

00:08:32   parts of me that identify with Henry [TS]

00:08:34   throughout the game but the reports to [TS]

00:08:35   me that we're still like you stupid [TS]

00:08:37   idiot [TS]

00:08:38   what are you doing why are you saying [TS]

00:08:41   these things why don't you get that this [TS]

00:08:43   is a code that your supervisors like [TS]

00:08:46   there's so many so many things in this [TS]

00:08:48   game where I'm just like oh my god [TS]

00:08:50   you're just your lug your lovable lug [TS]

00:08:53   but all gosh yeah like when they ask how [TS]

00:08:55   do you pose you know and you're like oh [TS]

00:08:57   do you pose like you're frolicking [TS]

00:08:58   Victoria's Secret her you're a macho man [TS]

00:09:01   and i looked at Marco because my husband [TS]

00:09:03   who was you know watching me play while [TS]

00:09:04   I was playing the game and I'm like I [TS]

00:09:06   don't know which one do you want to do [TS]

00:09:07   was like I'd like there were a couple [TS]

00:09:09   questions in the very beginning to like [TS]

00:09:11   set the tone of the game and I like turn [TS]

00:09:12   to him like i don't know i don't know i [TS]

00:09:14   was able to pick the dog you know I'm [TS]

00:09:16   like I'm not a jerk i'm totally picking [TS]

00:09:18   bucket every time that's what she wants [TS]

00:09:19   like of course you can be a jerk here [TS]

00:09:21   but this [TS]

00:09:22   that is the correct answer everyone [TS]

00:09:25   playing role on Team bucket right [TS]

00:09:26   oh yeah yes you better bust well you [TS]

00:09:29   know the gender angle does make it [TS]

00:09:31   easier for guys to relate because at [TS]

00:09:32   least they have a fighting chance so [TS]

00:09:34   maybe you knew somebody was like this [TS]

00:09:36   maybe you can relate to be if you're [TS]

00:09:37   married you can relate to being married [TS]

00:09:39   to trying to pick up a woman at a bar [TS]

00:09:40   when you're drunk or something like that [TS]

00:09:41   but like i said in the beginning even [TS]

00:09:44   four guys the game forces you to realize [TS]

00:09:47   you are not playing as yourself you are [TS]

00:09:49   being asked to inhabit this character [TS]

00:09:50   this character that makes bad choices [TS]

00:09:52   and that yeah you're only given the [TS]

00:09:55   choice is your given number the ones you [TS]

00:09:57   feel like these are the choices i would [TS]

00:09:59   make sure you have to it's kinda like [TS]

00:10:00   when you're reading a book and the main [TS]

00:10:01   character is something like to share [TS]

00:10:03   right what it was like you're really [TS]

00:10:05   just a regular novel in the main [TS]

00:10:06   characters nothing like you you have to [TS]

00:10:08   the good book will say well even those [TS]

00:10:10   characters nothing like me and does make [TS]

00:10:11   decisions that I would never make [TS]

00:10:12   because the the protagonist and if the [TS]

00:10:15   author does a good job you can end up [TS]

00:10:16   relating to them and it's kind of like a [TS]

00:10:19   life is strange is it not business a [TS]

00:10:21   similar game to fire watch your life is [TS]

00:10:22   stranger ask the players as a you know a [TS]

00:10:24   young teenage girl a lot of games are [TS]

00:10:27   like that in the day they ask you to be [TS]

00:10:29   somebody you're not and it's a different [TS]

00:10:31   kind of game where you have to accept [TS]

00:10:34   that it is not a role-playing game and [TS]

00:10:36   you don't get to define the character [TS]

00:10:37   you just get to I mean you got home late [TS]

00:10:39   for example I mean I did I diet you can [TS]

00:10:41   I relate to the experiences of a you [TS]

00:10:44   know a young lesbian teenager and gone [TS]

00:10:45   home [TS]

00:10:46   no but if you you know eventually you [TS]

00:10:48   switch your mindset and say alright this [TS]

00:10:51   is not me this is this character and I'm [TS]

00:10:52   sort of being within I don't know it [TS]

00:10:55   happening is one more because you are [TS]

00:10:56   animating them and you are making [TS]

00:10:57   choices [TS]

00:10:59   it's kind of like role playing in the [TS]

00:11:01   dnd sense where you are assigned a [TS]

00:11:03   character and you have to be a gruff [TS]

00:11:04   dwarf and even if you're not a gruff [TS]

00:11:05   kind of person you feel like well time [TS]

00:11:07   to pretend I'm a graft war right because [TS]

00:11:09   that's this character or whatever and [TS]

00:11:11   you can get in that way [TS]

00:11:12   yeah but I mean that's but this is like [TS]

00:11:14   a very personal character you know he's [TS]

00:11:15   a person he's making choices he's doing [TS]

00:11:17   things like and I think of me to say [TS]

00:11:19   that the writing and everything was [TS]

00:11:20   really great that eventually you know i [TS]

00:11:21   was able to let that go and be like okay [TS]

00:11:23   I'm playing as Harry I will Harry that's [TS]

00:11:25   what I thought I always kept thinking [TS]

00:11:27   was Harry from haha madman like I'm just [TS]

00:11:29   making carries choices like that's all [TS]

00:11:31   I'm doing well I could have done [TS]

00:11:32   I version where you got to pick the [TS]

00:11:34   gender of the care oh yeah i mean i [TS]

00:11:35   understand they put so much time and [TS]

00:11:37   extra stuff more acid so much time into [TS]

00:11:40   the voice actor yeah you don't get to [TS]

00:11:41   change what happens in the game because [TS]

00:11:43   money because yeah but going back to [TS]

00:11:46   what you were saying about character [TS]

00:11:47   John because that was that was what [TS]

00:11:49   invention we sort of made me embrace the [TS]

00:11:52   the game as as uncomfortable as I felt a [TS]

00:11:54   sort of the initial few minutes I it [TS]

00:11:57   reminds me a lot of what i used to do as [TS]

00:12:00   a kid actually as a kid in the woods [TS]

00:12:02   where I would read books on and then you [TS]

00:12:04   know you would you you have the book the [TS]

00:12:06   story that's in the book and then [TS]

00:12:08   occasionally you go and you you take the [TS]

00:12:11   character out of the book and you say oh [TS]

00:12:13   you know like I wonder what would happen [TS]

00:12:15   if Luke's got like it looks guy Walker [TS]

00:12:17   was in the middle of the woods I wonder [TS]

00:12:18   what he was decisions you would make I [TS]

00:12:20   want you know when you start it's almost [TS]

00:12:22   like developing a character for your own [TS]

00:12:24   book in and in each like putting some of [TS]

00:12:27   your own voice into a predetermined [TS]

00:12:29   character and playing with them outside [TS]

00:12:31   the constraints of a traditional story [TS]

00:12:34   and it's kind of weird way of describing [TS]

00:12:36   how i felt about this game but but in [TS]

00:12:40   some ways it was very much like okay I'm [TS]

00:12:42   taking somebody else's character this is [TS]

00:12:44   not a character I would have ever [TS]

00:12:45   written but as a writer [TS]

00:12:47   it was really interesting to me to play [TS]

00:12:50   this game and think about that think [TS]

00:12:52   about his decisions in his choices as [TS]

00:12:54   like I am painting the future of Henry [TS]

00:12:57   the character of you know I have a Harry [TS]

00:13:00   crane in the nineteen eighties as a is a [TS]

00:13:03   slightly level slightly doofus in the in [TS]

00:13:05   the middle of the woods and part of it [TS]

00:13:08   is you know how what how would you react [TS]

00:13:12   but moreover i felt more and more like [TS]

00:13:15   this person is not is never going to be [TS]

00:13:18   me but i can i can roleplay as this [TS]

00:13:22   character you'd like you were saying i [TS]

00:13:24   can i can inhabit this character and and [TS]

00:13:26   play within them [TS]

00:13:27   what makes this game so incredible is [TS]

00:13:29   that it tricks you into thinking you're [TS]

00:13:30   the one that's driving all the action [TS]

00:13:32   because everything is already written [TS]

00:13:34   all the dialogue is already recorded all [TS]

00:13:36   you're doing is just pushing wasd to [TS]

00:13:38   move around and make everything moved [TS]

00:13:40   forward so the fact that the writing can [TS]

00:13:41   suck you into thinking that you are the [TS]

00:13:44   actual one cream [TS]

00:13:45   reading this story like a Firewatch was [TS]

00:13:46   a short story or a movie would probably [TS]

00:13:49   be pretty good but it would be nowhere [TS]

00:13:50   near as effective as if you were the one [TS]

00:13:52   actually wandering through the woods and [TS]

00:13:54   digging things up and putting out fires [TS]

00:13:56   and look Skywalker in the woods angle [TS]

00:13:58   the the part that is extra difficult [TS]

00:14:01   about this is when you play as another [TS]

00:14:03   character even and gone home or life is [TS]

00:14:05   strange or something in general the [TS]

00:14:06   protagonist is admirable or heroic or [TS]

00:14:09   even if they make choices you wouldn't [TS]

00:14:11   make it usually because they're more [TS]

00:14:12   brave than you are or you know like that [TS]

00:14:15   that there's a hero to the story [TS]

00:14:17   whereas right off the bat in this one [TS]

00:14:18   the protagonist in the story which you [TS]

00:14:20   are being asked to play you kind of feel [TS]

00:14:22   like I'm better than this guy [TS]

00:14:24   I mean she not like you just a force you [TS]

00:14:27   to select among bad choices and things [TS]

00:14:29   turn badly and by the time you end up in [TS]

00:14:32   that fire watch station you kind of [TS]

00:14:34   think of this guy you mean I think [TS]

00:14:36   you're in the place the game want you to [TS]

00:14:37   be like this guy's life is a mess and [TS]

00:14:38   it's his own fault i think you're [TS]

00:14:40   supposed to be like uncomfortable like [TS]

00:14:42   planned very right likelike it'sit's [TS]

00:14:44   very intentional like bad things happen [TS]

00:14:46   to him and he didn't handle them well [TS]

00:14:48   and you for what you didn't handle it [TS]

00:14:50   well because the only two choices you [TS]

00:14:51   ever given all the choices was like bad [TS]

00:14:53   and bad again the dog choice was the [TS]

00:14:55   only easy one [TS]

00:14:56   they're at and and really the dog prices [TS]

00:15:00   only easy for us because we're a bunch [TS]

00:15:01   of softies right but someone else's [TS]

00:15:02   somewhere is going like obviously picked [TS]

00:15:04   the german shepherd but anyway like it [TS]

00:15:06   you end up there trying to put you into [TS]

00:15:09   place you're never going to feel like [TS]

00:15:10   unless you had something like Henry had [TS]

00:15:11   happened to him worse his wife gets [TS]

00:15:13   everything we do is spoil her already [TS]

00:15:15   I know but there are things were going [TS]

00:15:17   to fire the spoiler off for but the [TS]

00:15:20   essentially the prologue of the story [TS]

00:15:22   you shouldn't be listening to this [TS]

00:15:23   podcast if you want to go into it cold [TS]

00:15:26   so i'm not gonna find a spoiler one-off [TS]

00:15:28   I'm just gonna say we're gonna talk [TS]

00:15:29   about the setup of the story and feel [TS]

00:15:31   free about it [TS]

00:15:32   alright so his wife has dementia and it [TS]

00:15:35   actually putting home if my status [TS]

00:15:37   happened to you can never be in that [TS]

00:15:38   headspace the closest the game can get [TS]

00:15:40   is to essentially make you participate [TS]

00:15:44   in a series of bad choices leading up to [TS]

00:15:46   him being away from his wife and you [TS]

00:15:48   should feel bad about it because you [TS]

00:15:51   know if it was just you don't have any [TS]

00:15:52   choices you'd say this guy's away from [TS]

00:15:54   his wife and i feel i look down on him [TS]

00:15:57   for that but because you were forced to [TS]

00:15:58   pick left to ride your be a whole bunch [TS]

00:16:00   of times you have a little bit of I feel [TS]

00:16:03   bad because I did that and especially on [TS]

00:16:05   the first playthrough you're like maybe [TS]

00:16:08   one of the other choices I didn't pick [TS]

00:16:10   would have led to a better dialogue tree [TS]

00:16:11   I mean and and that would have led to a [TS]

00:16:14   situation where I don't feel quite as [TS]

00:16:15   bad but that's what they want you to be [TS]

00:16:17   once you get into the station they want [TS]

00:16:19   you to be disoriented kind of feeling a [TS]

00:16:22   little bit guilty not sure what's what [TS]

00:16:24   still thinking about that whole prologue [TS]

00:16:26   sequence and then being thrust into you [TS]

00:16:29   know Delilah squawking at you over the [TS]

00:16:31   radio to go [TS]

00:16:32   what's this all about what is also doing [TS]

00:16:33   fire right now I i think if it is and it [TS]

00:16:37   i assume it is a creative decision to [TS]

00:16:39   make you it uncomfortable and give you [TS]

00:16:43   actually some sort of remove from Henry [TS]

00:16:46   over you know you're like you're [TS]

00:16:48   operating him but you're almost like a [TS]

00:16:49   dissenter while your hot friend you're [TS]

00:16:51   like all right well I'll play this guy [TS]

00:16:53   but only under protest because that's [TS]

00:16:55   definitely how I felt and I didn't have [TS]

00:16:57   a problem with that I felt like I [TS]

00:16:59   certainly would have been more [TS]

00:17:00   comfortable being shown a prologue that [TS]

00:17:03   says this guy's messed up and now you [TS]

00:17:07   get to steer him as opposed to what what [TS]

00:17:10   Firewatch does which is makes you [TS]

00:17:11   complicit in his screw-ups that you [TS]

00:17:13   can't it makes you very uncomfortable at [TS]

00:17:15   least it made me very uncomfortable to [TS]

00:17:17   have to make all of those bad decisions [TS]

00:17:20   and to not have any choice but to make [TS]

00:17:23   one bad decision or another I don't know [TS]

00:17:25   how many people played alone versus with [TS]

00:17:27   someone nearby when I have someone was [TS]

00:17:28   watching me play and they're like whoa [TS]

00:17:29   this gets heavy fast [TS]

00:17:31   yeah i guess like I mean I kind of knew [TS]

00:17:34   what the concept of the game was but I [TS]

00:17:35   was not perhaps emotionally prepared for [TS]

00:17:38   what that little prologue was going to [TS]

00:17:39   be like an undergraduate the magic trick [TS]

00:17:41   is that if you're in the right headspace [TS]

00:17:44   once you get there you start to like [TS]

00:17:47   sort of cognitive dissonance texting you [TS]

00:17:49   like well yeah things are in a bad [TS]

00:17:52   situation but you know I really didn't [TS]

00:17:54   have much of a choice and for people in [TS]

00:17:56   that situation and then time you've done [TS]

00:17:57   something about your life very often you [TS]

00:17:59   say yeah things ended up this way but [TS]

00:18:01   it's not like I had that much of a [TS]

00:18:02   choice like that that if you are in a [TS]

00:18:04   bad situation like very often it seems [TS]

00:18:06   as if at the time you all you had a [TS]

00:18:09   choice of is a series of bed [TS]

00:18:10   prices and whichever one you were to [TS]

00:18:12   pick there was no alternate dialogue [TS]

00:18:13   tree you would have always led to this [TS]

00:18:15   situation sort of like to explain your [TS]

00:18:17   own life to yourself that that even [TS]

00:18:20   though if you look at my life you would [TS]

00:18:22   feel like you obviously made some [TS]

00:18:24   choices you can make better ones for me [TS]

00:18:26   experiencing that time all I ever saw in [TS]

00:18:28   front of me were two choices both of [TS]

00:18:29   which are bad and I tried to pick the [TS]

00:18:31   least bad one and stone up in a bad [TS]

00:18:32   place um and if you can get into that [TS]

00:18:35   mindset you can kind of start to [TS]

00:18:37   identify because he literally isn't a [TS]

00:18:39   game where you don't you can't you can't [TS]

00:18:41   get to a situation where you are better [TS]

00:18:43   to your wife and you know the whole nine [TS]

00:18:45   yards right you can't do that but when [TS]

00:18:48   he's in that fire watch station [TS]

00:18:50   not that he has a chip on his shoulder [TS]

00:18:51   but you can kind of tell that he's has [TS]

00:18:55   justified somebody's running away from [TS]

00:18:57   it all and like it you know if you were [TS]

00:18:59   to talk to him if you would have liked [TS]

00:19:00   free dialogue with Henry and say so [TS]

00:19:02   what's the deal with all that stuff with [TS]

00:19:03   your wife and everything would be like [TS]

00:19:05   you know in hindsight I you know just [TS]

00:19:09   seemed like at the time there was no way [TS]

00:19:10   out like that any nothing I did was the [TS]

00:19:12   right thing to do [TS]

00:19:13   I think the listening to tiffin and [TS]

00:19:16   certainly talk about the the the issues [TS]

00:19:20   with this the another lot of games that [TS]

00:19:21   will put women in the been male [TS]

00:19:24   characters with no choice but i wonder [TS]

00:19:26   because I felt this way to has a man [TS]

00:19:28   playing a male character i think the [TS]

00:19:30   intimacy of this story the emotional [TS]

00:19:32   connection and what's happening here [TS]

00:19:33   inside this person's life makes it a lot [TS]

00:19:35   harder to to connect then it then just [TS]

00:19:41   saying well you know you got a gun in [TS]

00:19:43   your fight aliens and yet you're your [TS]

00:19:45   characters mail but whatever right this [TS]

00:19:47   is the you can't just shrug it off at [TS]

00:19:49   exactly this is this is you you are [TS]

00:19:52   talking about the formation of a [TS]

00:19:54   relationship and then the all the [TS]

00:19:56   problems in the relationship and then [TS]

00:19:58   this horrendous kind of end of the [TS]

00:20:00   relationship them all of that happens [TS]

00:20:01   and it's it's you know it's not it's [TS]

00:20:05   that intimacy i think is the thing that [TS]

00:20:06   really makes it different than just [TS]

00:20:09   inheriting some character that alright i [TS]

00:20:12   guess i'm playing this game now let's [TS]

00:20:14   take a break so i can tell you about one [TS]

00:20:15   of our sponsors this episode is brought [TS]

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00:21:51   the entire year that's IT pro dot TV / [TS]

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00:21:56   for seven days and save 30-percent [TS]

00:21:58   forever thank you to IT pro TV for [TS]

00:22:01   sponsoring the incomparable we should [TS]

00:22:03   talk a little bit about uh the forest [TS]

00:22:07   I think hmm the that is that is a major [TS]

00:22:11   character in this game as the forest and [TS]

00:22:13   your job as the fire watch person is to [TS]

00:22:17   watch for fires and then you get down [TS]

00:22:20   off of the the tower and you run around [TS]

00:22:22   in the forest and that is most of this [TS]

00:22:23   game this game is like a forest [TS]

00:22:25   simulator on one level and i actually [TS]

00:22:27   was what was thinking to myself or two [TS]

00:22:29   questions and two points I want to make [TS]

00:22:30   and I'm interested in your thoughts [TS]

00:22:31   about and one of them is I really [TS]

00:22:34   enjoyed running around in the forest and [TS]

00:22:36   I [TS]

00:22:37   admissions to accomplish in this game so [TS]

00:22:39   it was more than just running around but [TS]

00:22:40   honestly I had a moment where I thought [TS]

00:22:42   you know I could probably just wander [TS]

00:22:43   around in this forest and it's like a [TS]

00:22:44   great game for nerds who always think [TS]

00:22:46   about going hiking but would rather just [TS]

00:22:48   sit in front of the computer you can [TS]

00:22:49   hike in the forest on your computer so [TS]

00:22:52   so I don't lose any toes yeah but it was [TS]

00:22:54   I thought that was beautiful and well [TS]

00:22:56   realized and then the only other thing i [TS]

00:22:57   want to mention in this in this section [TS]

00:22:59   I'm curious about is for a game called [TS]

00:23:01   Firewatch there is literally zero fire [TS]

00:23:04   watching I kept expecting that it would [TS]

00:23:06   start with you wandering around on the [TS]

00:23:09   tower looking out in the forest waiting [TS]

00:23:12   to see a puff of smoke somewhere and [TS]

00:23:14   then radioing it in and you're never [TS]

00:23:16   given that opportunity and I'm sure they [TS]

00:23:19   have a good reason they want to kick off [TS]

00:23:20   the storyline and not bore people but I [TS]

00:23:22   kind of wanted it to say here's your job [TS]

00:23:26   stand here here are some binoculars look [TS]

00:23:29   around and do that for a little while [TS]

00:23:31   before something happened or maybe even [TS]

00:23:33   during the story have it just like [TS]

00:23:35   totally slow down back to well just go [TS]

00:23:38   back to doing your job but I and bug me [TS]

00:23:40   a little bit that at no point does Henry [TS]

00:23:42   do his job like the job of a person in a [TS]

00:23:46   Firewatch station instead the times [TS]

00:23:48   presumably when he's doing that we've [TS]

00:23:49   got sort of fade in and out and we never [TS]

00:23:51   see them and I kind of wanted that I [TS]

00:23:52   kind of wanted that boredom and quiet of [TS]

00:23:55   staring out of the forest there was a [TS]

00:23:57   time of that there was a on day three [TS]

00:23:59   they gave you like a free time where [TS]

00:24:01   they're like all right well when you're [TS]

00:24:03   ready you talk to me but you know go do [TS]

00:24:05   what you need to do and you can kind of [TS]

00:24:06   like not engage the story at that point [TS]

00:24:09   and just kind of do what you want i [TS]

00:24:11   instantly said ok I'm ready and didn't [TS]

00:24:13   spend any time wandering around [TS]

00:24:15   yeah you can totally like way too much [TS]

00:24:17   time early on the enolate as long as you [TS]

00:24:19   want and there there little bit too in [TS]

00:24:22   the in the middle day is I think it's [TS]

00:24:24   like Dave 30-year day 40 something like [TS]

00:24:27   that [TS]

00:24:28   whenever right after you see we do see [TS]

00:24:31   the fire in midnight on the June fire [TS]

00:24:34   there are a couple of a couple of things [TS]

00:24:37   that the forest exploration aspect is [TS]

00:24:40   really eerie to me in some ways so I [TS]

00:24:45   mean I grew up in the Sierras [TS]

00:24:47   in the summers we have a cabin up north [TS]

00:24:50   of Lake Tahoe and granted this is not [TS]

00:24:53   this is not even remotely designed to [TS]

00:24:55   look like the Sierras but it still has a [TS]

00:24:58   and there's a familiarity up to being in [TS]

00:25:01   the absolute wilderness and wandering [TS]

00:25:03   around and feeling like even with all [TS]

00:25:06   the the later slightly terrifying things [TS]

00:25:09   that happen in this story all the things [TS]

00:25:11   that will happen behind horn behind this [TS]

00:25:13   from the app behind together and the [TS]

00:25:17   forest does not feel menacing it we it [TS]

00:25:20   first even even in the potentially [TS]

00:25:23   spoiler horny stuff the forest it its [TS]

00:25:26   it's this weird like you can be out in [TS]

00:25:28   the middle of nowhere even in the middle [TS]

00:25:30   of nowhere game-wise and not be worried [TS]

00:25:33   that someone is going to jump out and [TS]

00:25:34   scream at you I'm not worried that [TS]

00:25:37   you're going to stumble and then fall [TS]

00:25:38   down a ravine I it's all of the all of [TS]

00:25:41   the things that I remember loving about [TS]

00:25:43   exploring the forest is a child being [TS]

00:25:46   able to run up trails and no like nose [TS]

00:25:49   through Brock bushes and hear this [TS]

00:25:52   that's very like the the soundscapes in [TS]

00:25:55   this in this game are so good I I had a [TS]

00:25:58   moment where I was running through a [TS]

00:25:59   meadow and thinking this is great [TS]

00:26:01   because at no point is this game going [TS]

00:26:03   to make me look down my shoelaces and [TS]

00:26:05   hang out all the stickers [TS]

00:26:06   yeah or deal with that deal with all the [TS]

00:26:09   mosquitoes flying or just even like [TS]

00:26:11   another video games and in red dead [TS]

00:26:13   redemption has all these wonderful like [TS]

00:26:15   soaring vistas and you'll be looking [TS]

00:26:17   around and then like it will be really [TS]

00:26:19   like taking in the atmosphere and then [TS]

00:26:20   you get mauled by a bear or something [TS]

00:26:22   did you guys find a raccoon yes I heard [TS]

00:26:25   there was a raccoon [TS]

00:26:26   yeah it's really cute it's super cute [TS]

00:26:28   and a picture of him on my camera [TS]

00:26:30   oh well you got a picture i guess so I'm [TS]

00:26:32   earlier before I had the camera i got i [TS]

00:26:35   saw him right after i got the camera and [TS]

00:26:37   I was like well if if nothing else was a [TS]

00:26:39   camera moment this is the camera want no [TS]

00:26:41   did anybody get a turtle no well I see [TS]

00:26:43   it on the screen shot page on the [TS]

00:26:45   website but i did not get him and that [TS]

00:26:46   get back get back to what you guys were [TS]

00:26:48   talking about before and that I always [TS]

00:26:50   felt because i'm a gamer and [TS]

00:26:52   a game player compelled to go to the [TS]

00:26:54   next objective for two reasons one that [TS]

00:26:57   like you know you want to see how the [TS]

00:26:58   story's gonna go to every time you [TS]

00:26:59   realize the story beat you know you [TS]

00:27:01   always go what's the next story be [TS]

00:27:02   what's the next story beat that [TS]

00:27:04   and the second thing is that like I [TS]

00:27:07   again being a gamer i had in my head [TS]

00:27:10   that the day-night cycle was dynamic and [TS]

00:27:13   scaled as in like you know one hour of [TS]

00:27:15   game time equals 24 hours of whatever [TS]

00:27:17   you know whatever scale was that dude [TS]

00:27:18   like the clock was running at all times [TS]

00:27:20   when in reality was probably check [TS]

00:27:22   pointed and the like this scene happens [TS]

00:27:24   during dusk and you have basically you [TS]

00:27:26   know like I was afraid I was always [TS]

00:27:27   afraid that the Sun would go down [TS]

00:27:28   completely and not there would be a [TS]

00:27:30   loose condition but that I would that I [TS]

00:27:33   would miss out on some part of the game [TS]

00:27:35   by being bad at navigation essentially [TS]

00:27:37   like getting from point A to point B so [TS]

00:27:38   at every point in the game I was like a [TS]

00:27:41   page-turner a novel I was compelled to [TS]

00:27:42   go to the next point to the next point [TS]

00:27:45   to the next point and I'm with Jason and [TS]

00:27:46   that not that I think it would've been a [TS]

00:27:48   better game with this but just that what [TS]

00:27:50   i was looking for in some areas was the [TS]

00:27:53   like in a longer game there would have [TS]

00:27:55   been more like this like a time when you [TS]

00:27:57   are just sort of hanging out in the [TS]

00:28:00   woods and sort of taking ownership of it [TS]

00:28:02   and i think one of the main reasons they [TS]

00:28:03   couldn't do that in this game aside from [TS]

00:28:05   trying to make it tight and make it you [TS]

00:28:06   know all fit together nicely as again [TS]

00:28:08   budget because the woods although they [TS]

00:28:10   look like woods have to be constructed [TS]

00:28:13   as a series of funnels to herd cattle [TS]

00:28:15   into a certain number of places that a [TS]

00:28:17   lot of it is open but there are [TS]

00:28:19   essentially invisible walls made of [TS]

00:28:20   brushed some brush you can clear a lot [TS]

00:28:23   of brush you can't some rocks with [TS]

00:28:25   carefully painted white ledges you can [TS]

00:28:26   go up other boulders are just an [TS]

00:28:28   invisible wall for you and they have to [TS]

00:28:31   do that to corral people through the [TS]

00:28:32   story of the game whereas if it was an [TS]

00:28:34   open-world game like like they had to [TS]

00:28:37   strike the balance between we want you [TS]

00:28:38   to feel like this is an entire woods [TS]

00:28:40   that is completely open to you but on [TS]

00:28:41   the other hand we do have story beats to [TS]

00:28:43   head and we do want people to be [TS]

00:28:45   successful to navigate from point A to [TS]

00:28:46   point B so we do kind of wanna corral [TS]

00:28:49   you in the right direction again I think [TS]

00:28:52   it all just comes down to budget and [TS]

00:28:53   development time you can't make this [TS]

00:28:55   magical game it's like oh it's a big [TS]

00:28:56   fantasy open-world you can spend as much [TS]

00:28:58   time as you want to go into your but [TS]

00:28:59   also this type a story that clicks for [TS]

00:29:01   people that they're able to play and [TS]

00:29:03   that's that's just something inherent in [TS]

00:29:05   sort of small independent non big-budget [TS]

00:29:08   games and I don't think the game is [TS]

00:29:10   lesser for it because I kind of see all [TS]

00:29:12   the reasons that they chose to do it [TS]

00:29:13   that way but the game just look so [TS]

00:29:15   beautiful that I do wish there was a [TS]

00:29:17   like a game with 700 times the budget [TS]

00:29:20   that was like this but fully realized [TS]

00:29:23   with no invisible walls [TS]

00:29:24   yeah I showed this games my brother i [TS]

00:29:25   was watching him play over his shoulder [TS]

00:29:27   and he's a much more quote unquote [TS]

00:29:29   traditional gamer you know the first [TS]

00:29:31   person shooters and things like that and [TS]

00:29:32   he is the kind of person I realized just [TS]

00:29:35   then watching him play this where he is [TS]

00:29:37   the person who will play the game based [TS]

00:29:40   on where they don't want you to go [TS]

00:29:41   whereas I'm the kind of game that plays [TS]

00:29:43   based on where it be game obviously [TS]

00:29:45   wants you to go and that makes a lot of [TS]

00:29:47   sense for the story games because you [TS]

00:29:49   know there's paths there's a story beats [TS]

00:29:51   that you need to hit there's no dynamic [TS]

00:29:53   lighting that shows ok when you're at [TS]

00:29:54   this point you're at dusk at this point [TS]

00:29:56   you're doing this seen things like that [TS]

00:29:57   and he was going all the way over to the [TS]

00:29:59   edge and trying to figure out okay go [TS]

00:30:01   over this like in Skyrim no okay and it [TS]

00:30:04   if there is a game with no 700 times the [TS]

00:30:07   budget where you could have everything [TS]

00:30:09   look at just this beautiful grand theft [TS]

00:30:11   auto 5 really does not look as beautiful [TS]

00:30:13   as this but everything is interactable [TS]

00:30:15   that's not a word everything is able to [TS]

00:30:17   be interacted with everything is able to [TS]

00:30:20   be you can drive around everywhere and [TS]

00:30:21   it doesn't look nearly as good as fire [TS]

00:30:23   watch and when it comes to bang for your [TS]

00:30:25   buck and most game for your time [TS]

00:30:26   Firewatch is a much better game despite [TS]

00:30:29   you know at what you were saying John [TS]

00:30:30   all those invisible walls and all the [TS]

00:30:32   things that they need to get in there [TS]

00:30:33   for the sake of budget but also for the [TS]

00:30:36   sake of story so but they didn't ask you [TS]

00:30:37   to navigate that's the tricky thing like [TS]

00:30:39   journey is another example of a small [TS]

00:30:41   small game with not a lot of place and [TS]

00:30:43   and journey is definitely following you [TS]

00:30:44   the same way with the story beats but no [TS]

00:30:46   part of journey is it like and navigate [TS]

00:30:48   however you want from point A to point B [TS]

00:30:50   you never on a first playthrough journey [TS]

00:30:53   ideally you'd never hit invisible wall [TS]

00:30:55   and I feel like almost anybody on their [TS]

00:30:56   first play through fire watches at some [TS]

00:30:58   point could did an invisible wall even [TS]

00:31:00   if it's only just a series of boulders [TS]

00:31:01   and trees preventing you from funny a [TS]

00:31:03   path that's what the forest is like I [TS]

00:31:05   was actually impressed that i could go [TS]

00:31:06   as many places I could given how [TS]

00:31:08   impassable so much i mean it [TS]

00:31:10   the invisible walls are visible walls [TS]

00:31:13   because it and they treat in the story [TS]

00:31:15   levels in trees and boulders [TS]

00:31:16   about the brush her like a a boulder [TS]

00:31:18   this as high as your shin you could step [TS]

00:31:20   over but they make you walk around and [TS]

00:31:22   you know like it because like you just [TS]

00:31:23   don't have the budget to try to make [TS]

00:31:25   completely passable terrain river you [TS]

00:31:26   have to essentially make it passable [TS]

00:31:29   area versus non passable all 22 final [TS]

00:31:31   people around but because they give you [TS]

00:31:32   the freedom it's almost open world like [TS]

00:31:34   they say get back to the tower however [TS]

00:31:36   you want there's a whole bunch of [TS]

00:31:37   alternate paths you don't have to follow [TS]

00:31:38   the palace that but if you take one of [TS]

00:31:41   the alternate paths that seems like it's [TS]

00:31:42   entirely plausible that all there is [TS]

00:31:44   just a little bitch with a different [TS]

00:31:45   amount of dirt in it and some shin-hye [TS]

00:31:47   boulders and trees you can clearly walk [TS]

00:31:50   between easily it's like no you can't go [TS]

00:31:53   that way but sometimes you go up [TS]

00:31:54   depression it says you know L to clear [TS]

00:31:56   brush or whatever it's all I can clear [TS]

00:31:58   this brush but i can't clear the other [TS]

00:31:59   brush so it it's it's very difficult [TS]

00:32:03   I mean it's a challenging thing if you [TS]

00:32:04   decide to make a game for this budget [TS]

00:32:05   for this amount of gameplay and say all [TS]

00:32:06   is going to be an overall forest looks [TS]

00:32:08   gorgeous from every direction that's [TS]

00:32:10   really hard to do they mean by it looks [TS]

00:32:11   gorgeous from every direction but it is [TS]

00:32:13   not quite open world it's like [TS]

00:32:15   ninety-nine percent open i have one of [TS]

00:32:17   those moments that totally pulled a bit [TS]

00:32:19   out of me when I was going to the scout [TS]

00:32:21   camp and lazily if I approached it from [TS]

00:32:24   one side there was an invisible wall [TS]

00:32:25   that just like we just consider when [TS]

00:32:28   yeah I couldn't get there and I was like [TS]

00:32:29   okay I guess I'll navigate around but [TS]

00:32:31   it's like why I'm guessing that one was [TS]

00:32:34   a bug [TS]

00:32:35   yeah I get it done everything the cabins [TS]

00:32:37   from that one side instead of it so you [TS]

00:32:39   experience that to like how ya doing [TS]

00:32:41   I like I tried it for a really long like [TS]

00:32:43   stupid amount of time to really get to [TS]

00:32:44   know that while i'm like no i know i can [TS]

00:32:46   get into this is the second time i [TS]

00:32:47   played i know i'm allowed here for me [TS]

00:32:50   that moment was towards the end there is [TS]

00:32:52   a really wonderful music moment whereas [TS]

00:32:55   you're supposed to be walking somewhere [TS]

00:32:56   the music kicks in and dramatic and bump [TS]

00:32:58   bump bump and I got a horrific lost and [TS]

00:33:02   the music kept playing four maybe five [TS]

00:33:04   or ten minutes while I was trying to get [TS]

00:33:06   back to the path is a yeah they just [TS]

00:33:10   lost all of its momentum after a while [TS]

00:33:11   like okay yeah this is just background [TS]

00:33:13   noise now I need to get back on the [TS]

00:33:14   freaking path I mean journey does that [TS]

00:33:16   same thing to die i have experienced [TS]

00:33:18   that to brian it was like stop stressing [TS]

00:33:19   me out music you maybe you made me freak [TS]

00:33:21   out now I don't know where I am [TS]

00:33:23   that's the delicate dance between the [TS]

00:33:24   developer and the player they you want [TS]

00:33:26   to be in harmony [TS]

00:33:27   and when you're in harmony everything [TS]

00:33:28   works but boy if things go off the rails [TS]

00:33:31   and i said i think it is a harder [TS]

00:33:32   challenge to get that in this type of [TS]

00:33:35   game where it's the woods and it is very [TS]

00:33:37   impressively large area a beautiful area [TS]

00:33:39   places you want to go to you like a look [TS]

00:33:41   at that all the way over there oh you [TS]

00:33:42   know even if you're not compelled to go [TS]

00:33:44   that I could objective you do want to [TS]

00:33:45   explore I think that leads to more [TS]

00:33:47   people getting hung up on geometry or [TS]

00:33:49   getting disoriented and feeling unfairly [TS]

00:33:52   they can't get back to the path you [TS]

00:33:53   really can totally see it right through [TS]

00:33:54   that brush sprite or whatever there was [TS]

00:33:56   one point where they wanted you to go [TS]

00:33:57   down to the lake to and they even [TS]

00:33:59   shortened one of the the belaying ropes [TS]

00:34:03   so that you couldn't get back up one of [TS]

00:34:05   the shell slides because they really [TS]

00:34:06   really wanted you to go to the lake and [TS]

00:34:08   it was just like just little tiny [TS]

00:34:10   shortened up and then the next time you [TS]

00:34:12   go see it's long again and you can [TS]

00:34:13   totally climate i'm going to just like [TS]

00:34:15   what [TS]

00:34:16   yeah my god i was a little trick but oh [TS]

00:34:18   well I make it wouldn't have been that [TS]

00:34:20   big of a deal if you went exploring but [TS]

00:34:22   yeah it's it's interesting to me because [TS]

00:34:24   i think by and large I actually I [TS]

00:34:26   figured out sort of the the good places [TS]

00:34:28   to go and not good places to go by [TS]

00:34:30   looking at map terrain that map is [TS]

00:34:32   beautiful and I was trying my hardest to [TS]

00:34:35   work on the map without the without why [TS]

00:34:38   little GPS dot yeah isn't that nice you [TS]

00:34:41   got a paper map that has a that has a [TS]

00:34:43   track around it was a mechanic come over [TS]

00:34:45   there other people complaining about how [TS]

00:34:46   hard it like that getting lost and stuff [TS]

00:34:49   at us like that [TS]

00:34:50   I i did not experience well so you can [TS]

00:34:52   if you're bad at directions which I'm [TS]

00:34:55   not I'm pretty good with a compass in [TS]

00:34:57   real life but apparently and fire watch [TS]

00:34:59   all of that goes out the window because [TS]

00:35:00   I definitely went someplace being like [TS]

00:35:02   I'm going south [TS]

00:35:03   wait no now i'm hitting an impenetrable [TS]

00:35:04   wall where to go but when i combine it [TS]

00:35:07   with the map it's very easy to see what [TS]

00:35:10   areas are basically explorable and what [TS]

00:35:13   areas are just mountain and it was also [TS]

00:35:16   nice because it gave me clues on sort of [TS]

00:35:19   where to look for the hidden manna still [TS]

00:35:21   be hidden mickeys butt but there are [TS]

00:35:23   some there are some interesting things [TS]

00:35:25   in the game that i don't know i don't [TS]

00:35:26   necessarily think directly play to the [TS]

00:35:29   the primary story but you can find by [TS]

00:35:32   kind of wondering often [TS]

00:35:34   and going into little did anybody maybe [TS]

00:35:37   this requires spoilery but anybody find [TS]

00:35:40   the burned-out cabin on the outside [TS]

00:35:42   yeah i did not know that yeah so there's [TS]

00:35:46   so that I won't tell you where I won't [TS]

00:35:48   tell you where but there is a super [TS]

00:35:51   super creepy burned-out cabin and when [TS]

00:35:53   your radio Delilah about it [TS]

00:35:55   Delilah's silence and you can explore [TS]

00:35:58   said cabin but I i ran into that really [TS]

00:36:01   early on when the game was still very [TS]

00:36:03   much in its happy-go-lucky phase and I [TS]

00:36:05   was like oh let's go okay now i'm [TS]

00:36:08   getting a serious missed five what's [TS]

00:36:10   going on so but but I didn't I wouldn't [TS]

00:36:13   have found that if i hadn't been paying [TS]

00:36:15   such close attention to the map where [TS]

00:36:17   they like the darker shades in the [TS]

00:36:19   lighter shades were for exploring so i [TS]

00:36:21   highly encourage people if you not [TS]

00:36:23   finish the game if you're going back on [TS]

00:36:25   a second playthrough that's a really fun [TS]

00:36:27   way of kind of looking through stuff [TS]

00:36:30   they also just released the maps for [TS]

00:36:33   download in super high-quality format so [TS]

00:36:36   you can actually print it out and have [TS]

00:36:37   it with you while you play be covered [TS]

00:36:40   this week also sponsored by The Walking [TS]

00:36:43   Dead collectors models are you a fan of [TS]

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00:37:06   from across all seasons of The Walking [TS]

00:37:08   Dead I've got not just Rick of course [TS]

00:37:11   you've got to have Rick but I've got [TS]

00:37:13   Merle in front of me here and he's got [TS]

00:37:15   that great thing on his arm with the [TS]

00:37:16   like the stabby stabby knife at the end [TS]

00:37:19   which is super awesome i've got the [TS]

00:37:20   governor here he's got his eye patch and [TS]

00:37:22   a gun so straight out of what is that [TS]

00:37:25   season to season three of The Walking [TS]

00:37:26   Dead so all the seasons are represented [TS]

00:37:29   here every character depicted in a [TS]

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00:37:43   following original reference from the [TS]

00:37:44   AMC archives each model comes with a [TS]

00:37:46   detailed booklet spotlighting that [TS]

00:37:48   character you can start your collection [TS]

00:37:49   today with Rick Grimes i'm looking at [TS]

00:37:51   him now it is very much the risk that [TS]

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00:38:06   collection and to order yours visit TWD [TS]

00:38:09   collection.com / smell that's TWD for [TS]

00:38:13   the walking dead collection.com and [TS]

00:38:16   thank you to eaglemoss and the walking [TS]

00:38:17   dead collectors models for sponsoring [TS]

00:38:19   being comfortable i really enjoyed how [TS]

00:38:21   do they didn't just use that as we're [TS]

00:38:22   talking about the invisible walls to [TS]

00:38:24   guide you but they use the dialogue and [TS]

00:38:26   a lot of times the Lila would say things [TS]

00:38:28   to you that kind of would funnel you [TS]

00:38:30   around to get you back on track with the [TS]

00:38:32   game and I thought that was kind of neat [TS]

00:38:34   that sometimes when you like radio in [TS]

00:38:36   about like a random meadow or something [TS]

00:38:38   and she's like why are you over there [TS]

00:38:39   she's like you're not supposed to be [TS]

00:38:40   over there [TS]

00:38:41   you're supposed to be doing your job [TS]

00:38:42   like stop fooling around and focus you [TS]

00:38:44   know you really reading about the [TS]

00:38:46   utility poles like all these utility [TS]

00:38:48   poles they used to community and if you [TS]

00:38:49   can see them you're way off course [TS]

00:38:51   yeah there's one you could even go back [TS]

00:38:52   to the what is that called the little [TS]

00:38:56   trolley that you can only handle islands [TS]

00:38:59   Charlie if you go up there really early [TS]

00:39:00   she's like oh yeah it's totally closed [TS]

00:39:03   unless it's an emergency and they make [TS]

00:39:04   jokes and they say like it's an [TS]

00:39:06   emergency let me over and always try and [TS]

00:39:09   throw it it kind of its fun that you [TS]

00:39:11   they the dialogue directs you but also [TS]

00:39:15   kind of build your relationship in a [TS]

00:39:16   different way if you hadn't found that [TS]

00:39:18   kind of stuff and you get like more [TS]

00:39:19   jokes that they have between each other [TS]

00:39:21   and the guy i think it changes their [TS]

00:39:24   relationship a little bit like later on [TS]

00:39:26   because then they get more their voices [TS]

00:39:27   even sound more casual with each other [TS]

00:39:29   know that the flip side of that is if [TS]

00:39:31   you don't communicate with their like my [TS]

00:39:33   son was playing through this even though [TS]

00:39:34   it's got lots of curses and everything [TS]

00:39:35   you know yes she gets she has been so I [TS]

00:39:38   get mad like she because he's you know I [TS]

00:39:41   barbarian preteen boy I was trying i was [TS]

00:39:44   saying you should use the thing to [TS]

00:39:46   answer on the radio and he's like why [TS]

00:39:48   would it like that's the game you have [TS]

00:39:50   to you know because if you don't [TS]

00:39:51   communicate with her if you don't [TS]

00:39:53   encourage a series of bad puns if you [TS]

00:39:55   don't if you when she's going to admit [TS]

00:39:57   that she was drunk when she called you [TS]

00:39:59   if you don't engage in a conversation [TS]

00:40:00   she never admits [TS]

00:40:01   and that too that you just missed that [TS]

00:40:03   entirely like you you you fail to build [TS]

00:40:05   a relationship so in some ways there's a [TS]

00:40:08   little bit of the game player that [TS]

00:40:10   person was playing the game including [TS]

00:40:12   how the story goes that if only and how [TS]

00:40:13   much gets revealed i'm assuming by the [TS]

00:40:15   end of the game she gets all casual [TS]

00:40:16   familiar anyway but it's weird to see [TS]

00:40:19   someone playing the game who isn't [TS]

00:40:21   compelled or this doesn't understand [TS]

00:40:23   they're being asked to it is isn't [TS]

00:40:26   trying to exhaust at least one branch of [TS]

00:40:28   all the dialogue breeze which i think [TS]

00:40:29   most game players are you know it's kind [TS]

00:40:32   of like reading a book and getting i'm [TS]

00:40:33   gonna skip this page of dialogues I want [TS]

00:40:34   you gotta read you gotta play out the [TS]

00:40:36   story you know whichever way it's gonna [TS]

00:40:38   go i'm pretty certain it stays [TS]

00:40:40   consistent throughout the game they like [TS]

00:40:41   how your relationship bills because I [TS]

00:40:43   don't know did you guys listen to the up [TS]

00:40:45   up down down with the game developers [TS]

00:40:47   haven't yet it's it's very good it's [TS]

00:40:50   super insightful when it comes to [TS]

00:40:52   understanding how the how dynamic the [TS]

00:40:54   dialogue really is and how many I audio [TS]

00:40:57   clips that they recorded in order to [TS]

00:40:59   really even pinpoint like okay so what [TS]

00:41:02   makes this choice and then this choice [TS]

00:41:03   and that choice and then it then that [TS]

00:41:05   changes with it it changes the outcome [TS]

00:41:08   of this conversation because if you [TS]

00:41:10   don't tell her something you know that [TS]

00:41:12   she will never know it so she can't [TS]

00:41:13   bring it up later so and then that so [TS]

00:41:15   that changes every single kind of like [TS]

00:41:18   the the i guess the the tree that's [TS]

00:41:20   forms with the dialogue and it will [TS]

00:41:23   change the course of the game [TS]

00:41:24   it's very very interesting i highly [TS]

00:41:26   suggest that people who are interested [TS]

00:41:28   in this game [TS]

00:41:29   listen to that episode because they they [TS]

00:41:30   really highlight that a lot and that [TS]

00:41:33   made me after my first playthrough [TS]

00:41:34   really appreciate the depth of dialogue [TS]

00:41:37   and the voice acting and what that what [TS]

00:41:40   this game is really highlighting so much [TS]

00:41:42   more that's really difficult to do [TS]

00:41:43   though because many situations even my [TS]

00:41:45   first playthrough I got the dialogue [TS]

00:41:47   thing a little bit confused about the [TS]

00:41:49   timing of like oh she would have [TS]

00:41:51   realized she just told me that and now [TS]

00:41:53   she's telling me the same thing in a [TS]

00:41:54   different context you know like that [TS]

00:41:56   that it's been so very difficult to make [TS]

00:41:58   it all seem naturalistic and again when [TS]

00:42:00   everything is working and when I went to [TS]

00:42:01   person playing the game makes some [TS]

00:42:03   semblance of the obvious choices and [TS]

00:42:05   times things in the appropriate ways but [TS]

00:42:07   it's very easy for it's very easy to [TS]

00:42:09   break the game by doing with you no they [TS]

00:42:11   don't [TS]

00:42:11   want to do even if you're not that kind [TS]

00:42:12   of player I mean I like this game a lot [TS]

00:42:15   but they're all these places where you [TS]

00:42:16   can kind of see the seams and that I [TS]

00:42:18   don't like that and and i think i'm part [TS]

00:42:20   of my eye I don't know if i will replay [TS]

00:42:22   this because in some ways I feel like if [TS]

00:42:24   I replay it i will just see more of [TS]

00:42:26   those and that will just kind of [TS]

00:42:27   diminish my my enjoyment and especially [TS]

00:42:29   yeah i mean because I mean I'm kind of [TS]

00:42:32   without having played it without having [TS]

00:42:34   gone and sought out the answer it [TS]

00:42:35   because I don't totally want to know but [TS]

00:42:37   I mean I assume there's lots of choices [TS]

00:42:39   you make that or you know almost all the [TS]

00:42:41   choices you make really don't matter [TS]

00:42:43   well I played I to to counter that just [TS]

00:42:45   a second like I played it differently [TS]

00:42:47   each time i played it twice and the [TS]

00:42:49   first time I made one set of decisions [TS]

00:42:51   in the second time I made a second set [TS]

00:42:53   and I feel like I it followed me through [TS]

00:42:55   the game in a similar way but my [TS]

00:42:57   relationship with Delilah was a little [TS]

00:42:59   bit different and I think that that is [TS]

00:43:02   what is is highlighted here you know [TS]

00:43:04   what I mean it's not going to [TS]

00:43:05   drastically change the outcome of the [TS]

00:43:07   game or anything but your relationship [TS]

00:43:09   with this person and I guess feels [TS]

00:43:11   different [TS]

00:43:11   how you feel about the character that [TS]

00:43:13   your body yeah would change [TS]

00:43:16   I'm just I i played uh other games by [TS]

00:43:19   the same writing team and there are lots [TS]

00:43:21   of places where it's like you realize [TS]

00:43:23   after the fact that they're kind of like [TS]

00:43:24   they're false choices and like they can [TS]

00:43:27   feel powerful and motivating at the time [TS]

00:43:30   but then when you kind of see later that [TS]

00:43:32   like it didn't matter that kind of like [TS]

00:43:34   the magic trick is undone and your [TS]

00:43:35   robbed [TS]

00:43:36   that's kind of the gamers mindset though [TS]

00:43:38   greater like well it doesn't change the [TS]

00:43:40   ending like the only thing that matters [TS]

00:43:41   is like at the end of the game what [TS]

00:43:43   happens to the aliens winter they lose [TS]

00:43:45   to do the world ball operators I mean [TS]

00:43:47   lapa cheers and ire does your son live i [TS]

00:43:49   didn't get the part of fire watch where [TS]

00:43:50   there were aliens John right now but [TS]

00:43:52   that's what people mean when they talk [TS]

00:43:53   about the taste like whether they're [TS]

00:43:55   like oh it doesn't matter what you do [TS]

00:43:56   the ending is always the same but what [TS]

00:43:58   if says is true in a game like this [TS]

00:44:01   the plot points of like who did what and [TS]

00:44:04   what turns out to be the mystery is not [TS]

00:44:06   entirely what this game is about and if [TS]

00:44:09   you go to the game with it with a [TS]

00:44:10   different series of choices and you feel [TS]

00:44:11   at the end of it that you have a very [TS]

00:44:13   different relationship with the other [TS]

00:44:14   the other certain non-player character [TS]

00:44:16   in the game that is at least fifty [TS]

00:44:18   percent of the game but every review of [TS]

00:44:19   it everyone who plays it will always say [TS]

00:44:21   oh well it doesn't really matter it has [TS]

00:44:23   the same ending [TS]

00:44:24   it really the same ending like no you [TS]

00:44:26   know it mean plot-wise it is but that's [TS]

00:44:28   again with it i think it's a mindset of [TS]

00:44:30   when reviewing games that that you [TS]

00:44:32   always think about it in her because [TS]

00:44:34   games can do this thing where like you [TS]

00:44:35   have drastically different endings you [TS]

00:44:37   can have those type of games which again [TS]

00:44:38   for watching us from the very beginning [TS]

00:44:40   we are not that type of game there's not [TS]

00:44:42   a series of choices you're gonna make [TS]

00:44:43   they're gonna make this person live in [TS]

00:44:45   this person died or whatever like it's [TS]

00:44:46   well not gonna pick on that specific [TS]

00:44:48   example this the the writers for this [TS]

00:44:50   worked on the walking dead games right [TS]

00:44:52   and they're all these places where it's [TS]

00:44:53   like someone's in mortal danger and you [TS]

00:44:55   have basically a choice of like try and [TS]

00:44:57   help them or leave them to die and then [TS]

00:45:00   what's kind of rough is that there's a [TS]

00:45:02   lot of times with like you try to help [TS]

00:45:03   them and you were unsuccessful and they [TS]

00:45:05   die vs you leave them and you see them [TS]

00:45:07   die and you know you can feel [TS]

00:45:09   differently about it into the end like [TS]

00:45:11   well he's not trying to save them versus [TS]

00:45:12   i was i I mean you feel differently and [TS]

00:45:15   about the person you are but it's also [TS]

00:45:16   like you then see when you realize that [TS]

00:45:19   choice didn't you know you you also [TS]

00:45:21   didn't have any control that's what now [TS]

00:45:23   you know that's where you see the seam [TS]

00:45:25   and you're like a it's advisor how much [TS]

00:45:27   control do I have the world that I have [TS]

00:45:29   oh how much control do I have this story [TS]

00:45:31   versus is the story just being told to [TS]

00:45:33   be I guess I'm gonna be late for the [TS]

00:45:34   meeting room time travel movies you know [TS]

00:45:36   that if you actually have a legitimate [TS]

00:45:38   choices it does not take long until you [TS]

00:45:40   are essentially creating an entire world [TS]

00:45:42   of possibilities within your tiny little [TS]

00:45:43   game it's like that you know that the [TS]

00:45:45   the you know unescapable math of tree [TS]

00:45:48   branching means there and there are some [TS]

00:45:50   games that do that which is pretty [TS]

00:45:52   impressive money you have to do it all [TS]

00:45:54   you have to do it is in the big points [TS]

00:45:56   because you can make it so all you have [TS]

00:45:57   is definitely feel satisfied like wow [TS]

00:45:59   there are you up or didn't that's just [TS]

00:46:00   two branches right but people will think [TS]

00:46:02   all it's a significant change these [TS]

00:46:04   series of of you know but it's like it's [TS]

00:46:06   it's a tree that comes back in on itself [TS]

00:46:08   and ends up with two or three different [TS]

00:46:09   endings whereas you related to play out [TS]

00:46:11   naturally you start out with in one [TS]

00:46:13   position and then up with like 700,000 [TS]

00:46:16   endings and that is untenable but that [TS]

00:46:18   is the natural consequences of real life [TS]

00:46:20   in a game that has a branching structure [TS]

00:46:22   yeah you branch out but you have to come [TS]

00:46:24   back into have five possible ending 25 [TS]

00:46:27   minutes but not a million endings not to [TS]

00:46:29   the power of 65 and things right you [TS]

00:46:30   know me and that's what that's what [TS]

00:46:32   realistically would be like I like when [TS]

00:46:34   the game gave you one choice at certain [TS]

00:46:36   points and [TS]

00:46:37   had to click that one choice you have on [TS]

00:46:39   and I mean like I feel like that's like [TS]

00:46:41   forcing you to own that choice and to [TS]

00:46:43   become that choice in that character you [TS]

00:46:45   know and I I thought that was a nice [TS]

00:46:48   touch that that even though it wasn't [TS]

00:46:51   you know your choice and it wasn't [TS]

00:46:52   making the trainee broader and it wasn't [TS]

00:46:54   like making a dynamic are giving you a [TS]

00:46:55   better option [TS]

00:46:56   it was still making you click that and [TS]

00:46:59   by clicking it you're like okay as if [TS]

00:47:01   this character i'm making this choice to [TS]

00:47:03   say this or not say this or do this or [TS]

00:47:05   not do this but you're doing it you have [TS]

00:47:07   to click it so that anyways you're [TS]

00:47:09   complicit now [TS]

00:47:10   yeah well think about games like journey [TS]

00:47:13   and gone home where there is no choice [TS]

00:47:14   where everything that happens you're [TS]

00:47:16   controlling it but there is a single [TS]

00:47:18   linear path and I don't think there's [TS]

00:47:20   any diminishing returns between having [TS]

00:47:22   several different options are several [TS]

00:47:24   different endings or tree branches or [TS]

00:47:26   whatever versus just having one [TS]

00:47:28   narrative experience that is fantastic [TS]

00:47:30   even the first time and then you go back [TS]

00:47:32   and even if you can see the seams as you [TS]

00:47:34   go back as you make the same decisions [TS]

00:47:36   are different decisions and no decisions [TS]

00:47:38   because there's only one narrative path [TS]

00:47:40   I feel like there's no like I I would [TS]

00:47:43   not call this a better game because [TS]

00:47:45   there's extra options [TS]

00:47:46   regardless of whether or not those [TS]

00:47:48   options really affect anything in terms [TS]

00:47:50   of plots isn't a whole psychological [TS]

00:47:52   thing that if you have more choices [TS]

00:47:53   you're less happy with your outcome i [TS]

00:47:57   think in the character driven game like [TS]

00:47:59   this that what you really want is I i [TS]

00:48:01   like the idea that the plot is really [TS]

00:48:03   gonna go as it's going to go but your [TS]

00:48:04   relationship is going to be impacted by [TS]

00:48:06   the choices you make your relationship [TS]

00:48:07   with that person on the other side of [TS]

00:48:09   the pic of the canyon on the other end [TS]

00:48:11   of the walkie-talkie and and I like that [TS]

00:48:13   about it that you know I if if you feel [TS]

00:48:16   like nothing matters then you can take [TS]

00:48:19   you out of the game if you're just [TS]

00:48:20   completely on rails and you know they're [TS]

00:48:22   there but here what you get is the plot [TS]

00:48:24   is is pushing you in that in the [TS]

00:48:26   direction you need to go but the [TS]

00:48:28   relationship is something that you have [TS]

00:48:30   to tend to and build and make choices [TS]

00:48:32   about and having it feel like that has [TS]

00:48:34   an impact makes you feel like you you [TS]

00:48:36   know you did you did have you did have [TS]

00:48:39   an experience where you helped create it [TS]

00:48:40   even if you were still kind of on the on [TS]

00:48:43   the on the rails in terms of the plot [TS]

00:48:45   itself so i was other games you [TS]

00:48:46   mentioned a like they they have all the [TS]

00:48:50   things you described but they always [TS]

00:48:50   want to give you [TS]

00:48:51   something else to to enjoy the place [TS]

00:48:54   over example journey the thing they're [TS]

00:48:57   giving you is your experience with the [TS]

00:48:58   other player which is an actual human is [TS]

00:49:00   very unpredictable even though your [TS]

00:49:01   interactions very constrained that can [TS]

00:49:02   totally change your experience of the [TS]

00:49:04   game even though there are essentially [TS]

00:49:05   no choices during the game [TS]

00:49:07   the walking dead i think what gives you [TS]

00:49:08   is a lot of branches that eventually [TS]

00:49:11   merge back together a story with [TS]

00:49:13   characters that like it's more of a [TS]

00:49:14   faceless protagonist you can kind of [TS]

00:49:16   define more and i think one of the key [TS]

00:49:19   points in the walking dead for me is at [TS]

00:49:20   one point in the game [TS]

00:49:22   something happened and I felt compelled [TS]

00:49:25   to the whole wrestling was playing [TS]

00:49:26   playing make my choices best i can [TS]

00:49:28   enjoying it but at a certain point [TS]

00:49:29   something happened that I felt like I [TS]

00:49:31   need to go back into the last checkpoint [TS]

00:49:33   because I know there's some way I got to [TS]

00:49:35   be able to not let this happen and i [TS]

00:49:36   wanted to do that mostly because i was [TS]

00:49:37   invested in the characters and the story [TS]

00:49:39   and I didn't want this thing to happen [TS]

00:49:41   figures just me I've made a series of [TS]

00:49:42   bad choices there must be a way to avoid [TS]

00:49:44   this and when I found that it was [TS]

00:49:45   unavoidable [TS]

00:49:46   it was a little bit disappointing but it [TS]

00:49:47   also showed me that I had become [TS]

00:49:50   invested in the characters then often [TS]

00:49:51   these characters that I cared that this [TS]

00:49:52   choice that I made led to his outcome [TS]

00:49:54   and yes reveals the game is a little [TS]

00:49:56   more limited at this game like journey [TS]

00:49:58   it doesn't have other human players to [TS]

00:50:00   play with but it has some other part of [TS]

00:50:02   the game that is supposed to be making [TS]

00:50:04   up for the fact that you are essentially [TS]

00:50:05   being led through the the the trail by a [TS]

00:50:08   bright on thats the in your interactions [TS]

00:50:09   with the Lyle which to vary the scenery [TS]

00:50:12   your sort of your sort of eventually [TS]

00:50:14   becoming invested in taking ownership of [TS]

00:50:16   this experience and the sort of am I [TS]

00:50:19   going crazy what is really going on here [TS]

00:50:21   you know what it called encyclopedia [TS]

00:50:24   brown side plot journey that makes up [TS]

00:50:26   the heart of this game that we started [TS]

00:50:27   really talking about it which would I [TS]

00:50:29   think we should I think we should get to [TS]

00:50:30   let me take a break to tell you about [TS]

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00:50:41   any mattress purchase by going to Casper [TS]

00:50:44   dot-com / smell and using code smell at [TS]

00:50:48   checkout look we all spend about a third [TS]

00:50:49   of our lives sleeping [TS]

00:50:51   you should do it on a good mattress [TS]

00:50:53   Casper brings together two great [TS]

00:50:55   technologies they like to say for better [TS]

00:50:57   nights and brighter days I've been [TS]

00:50:58   sleeping on a casper mattresses for like [TS]

00:51:00   a year and a half now and it's a great [TS]

00:51:02   mattress it's so much better than a man [TS]

00:51:04   just that i had they have a really [TS]

00:51:06   interesting construction process there [TS]

00:51:08   are two kinds of foam there's latex foam [TS]

00:51:09   that's the top layer it's the one that [TS]

00:51:11   gives you this really good feel I I [TS]

00:51:14   guess that's what they would call just [TS]

00:51:15   the right sink and then there's a firmer [TS]

00:51:16   memory foam layer underneath they would [TS]

00:51:18   say just the right balance it does not [TS]

00:51:20   feel like you're going to sit on the [TS]

00:51:21   edge of a trampoline when you sit on the [TS]

00:51:23   mattress and when you lay down you're [TS]

00:51:25   going to get a great comfortable feel [TS]

00:51:27   much better than you'd get laying on a [TS]

00:51:28   mattress in store for two minutes [TS]

00:51:30   because you get to try it they have a [TS]

00:51:32   free trial and return policy you can get [TS]

00:51:35   a cast mattress try for up to a hundred [TS]

00:51:36   days and if you're not happy they'll [TS]

00:51:38   pick it back up and take it away and [TS]

00:51:40   you'll get your money back that's right [TS]

00:51:41   so the risk is less buying a mattress [TS]

00:51:44   from Casper on the internet that it [TS]

00:51:45   would be going to a store laying on a [TS]

00:51:47   mattress for two minutes and hoping that [TS]

00:51:48   you made the right call you get five [TS]

00:51:50   hundred dollars for a twin size mattress [TS]

00:51:52   you pay 954 a king-size mattress from [TS]

00:51:55   Casper [TS]

00:51:55   compare that to industry prices you'll [TS]

00:51:57   find out that these are reasonably [TS]

00:51:58   priced mattresses and they feel so good [TS]

00:52:01   so get fifty dollars toward any mattress [TS]

00:52:03   purchase a Casper by going to Casper [TS]

00:52:05   dot-com / smell and using code smell [TS]

00:52:07   terms and conditions apply thank you so [TS]

00:52:10   much to Casper for sponsoring the [TS]

00:52:12   incomparable and giving me a good [TS]

00:52:13   night's sleep every night i hope we have [TS]

00:52:16   satisfied your your curiosity enough to [TS]

00:52:20   bake you interested in playing this game [TS]

00:52:21   but now we're gonna we're gonna break [TS]

00:52:22   down some of the things that happen [TS]

00:52:24   toward the end in terms of the plot so [TS]

00:52:26   we're gonna fire off the spoiler horn [TS]

00:52:32   there goes out I was so louder than ever [TS]

00:52:36   the spoiler horn and that goes [TS]

00:52:38   throughout the woods it does it [TS]

00:52:40   that's right it's a spoiler Horn fire [TS]

00:52:42   that's right huh [TS]

00:52:43   I was spoiled whore neck oh yeah so I [TS]

00:52:46   you know I I so the plot here we get we [TS]

00:52:50   get there's there's a bunch of different [TS]

00:52:53   strands we've got the we see a figure [TS]

00:52:56   Leon that's unidentified there's a break [TS]

00:52:58   into the to the to the the tower we find [TS]

00:53:03   the backpack full of ropes that's from [TS]

00:53:05   the kid we learn about Brian and and Ned [TS]

00:53:09   who are out there in the in the forest [TS]

00:53:12   there are there are the teenage girls [TS]

00:53:16   down at the lake that you end up going [TS]

00:53:17   down her firing off fireworks and then [TS]

00:53:21   there is there a series of sort of [TS]

00:53:24   paranoid things about people who are [TS]

00:53:26   watching them and listening to their [TS]

00:53:28   radios and there's a whole fenced-off [TS]

00:53:30   area that nobody seems to know about and [TS]

00:53:34   the tracking device and you know extra [TS]

00:53:36   radios and all sorts of things like that [TS]

00:53:39   as well as this fire that that starts [TS]

00:53:42   and and spreads so you know there's a [TS]

00:53:45   lot of different stuff that happens and [TS]

00:53:47   even though it feels very linear when [TS]

00:53:49   you're playing it you know when you [TS]

00:53:50   think back you like well you know is it [TS]

00:53:52   all connected [TS]

00:53:53   is it not connected but you know the [TS]

00:53:55   these are the different threads that are [TS]

00:53:56   building throughout the throughout the [TS]

00:53:58   story so what would people think about [TS]

00:54:00   the about the plot threads and whether [TS]

00:54:05   they're connected or not I have an [TS]

00:54:06   opinion and I'm going to share later [TS]

00:54:08   about some of it because i think some [TS]

00:54:10   works better than others of it a one [TS]

00:54:12   hundred percent right but what do you [TS]

00:54:15   think I i enjoyed the interaction with [TS]

00:54:17   the with the teenagers out in the woods [TS]

00:54:19   I feel like there's I feel like that the [TS]

00:54:20   game hits you with the two things that [TS]

00:54:21   you're going to think about about being [TS]

00:54:23   on the woods especially if you've never [TS]

00:54:24   really done it but even if you have like [TS]

00:54:26   one of them is people like like Delilah [TS]

00:54:28   says over the radio at one point it's [TS]

00:54:30   like what I got to let you know that [TS]

00:54:32   they're like people out there because [TS]

00:54:34   it's the National Forest and people can [TS]

00:54:36   go out there this job it's outside and [TS]

00:54:41   so but the two things that you get is [TS]

00:54:43   one you get [TS]

00:54:43   kind of slightly scary or not [TS]

00:54:46   interaction which which totally happens [TS]

00:54:48   where it's like I see a figure he may be [TS]

00:54:51   looking at me and then he's gone is that [TS]

00:54:53   creepy or is that just how life is out [TS]

00:54:55   in the woods and then the other one is [TS]

00:54:57   the is is that people who are out of [TS]

00:55:00   civilization sometimes behave strangely [TS]

00:55:02   because they get to do whatever they [TS]

00:55:05   want because they're outside of [TS]

00:55:06   civilization and that's what the girls [TS]

00:55:08   at the girls at the at the lake are [TS]

00:55:11   doing and so I like those two elements [TS]

00:55:13   happen right away because you know those [TS]

00:55:17   it's a good introduction to the plot to [TS]

00:55:20   have have those two things and then they [TS]

00:55:22   also said you wanted because you're like [TS]

00:55:23   you're an authority figure 11 on the one [TS]

00:55:26   hand but on the other hand maybe they're [TS]

00:55:27   creepy things going on and when the [TS]

00:55:30   cabin gets broken into you've got two [TS]

00:55:31   suspects [TS]

00:55:32   so you're already kind of like not sure [TS]

00:55:34   about what's happening and that's what [TS]

00:55:36   that's what propels the story I think [TS]

00:55:37   it's an interesting choice for me there [TS]

00:55:39   were two things going on about like the [TS]

00:55:41   plot and the way that the game unrolled [TS]

00:55:43   it one there were so many red herrings [TS]

00:55:45   oh my god the entire kill many red [TS]

00:55:47   herring central and I feel like the [TS]

00:55:50   impact berries at the end of the game [TS]

00:55:51   when you realize how relatively tame the [TS]

00:55:54   actual events are I mean there's no like [TS]

00:55:57   big grand conspiracy is just a Ned being [TS]

00:56:00   a creep and being lonely and regretting [TS]

00:56:03   his son's death and the fact that that [TS]

00:56:05   is all that there is at the end of the [TS]

00:56:07   game really i mean not all like not [TS]

00:56:11   that's not a super impactful moment but [TS]

00:56:13   there's still something there where it's [TS]

00:56:14   like we spend the entire game freaking [TS]

00:56:17   out about government agencies and these [TS]

00:56:20   two girls that we don't really [TS]

00:56:21   understand in some creepy person with a [TS]

00:56:23   light like it ends up being something [TS]

00:56:24   that's much more down-to-earth that's [TS]

00:56:26   the word I'm looking for down to earth [TS]

00:56:28   than any of the other crazy things are [TS]

00:56:30   you thinking about during the game and [TS]

00:56:32   second i feel like the whole game i was [TS]

00:56:34   trying to figure out what the rules of [TS]

00:56:35   the game were whether or not we would [TS]

00:56:37   see other people whether or not no [TS]

00:56:39   Delilah was even real they to spell that [TS]

00:56:41   but there is a moment i was thinking are [TS]

00:56:43   we going to see any other creatures are [TS]

00:56:45   going to see anything move and I was [TS]

00:56:47   trying to extrapolate where the game [TS]

00:56:48   would go based on that [TS]

00:56:50   and at the end we don't meet Delilah we [TS]

00:56:53   only ever see one other actual human [TS]

00:56:56   person at the very end he brings you in [TS]

00:56:57   to the chopper and we see what a deer at [TS]

00:57:00   the very beginning but that's it in [TS]

00:57:02   terms of other playable characters and I [TS]

00:57:04   thought is it that's budget for you [TS]

00:57:06   everything you just described costs [TS]

00:57:07   money you're gonna animate the Lyle I [TS]

00:57:08   knew you'd never seen a lot of it [TS]

00:57:10   because that would take this time and [TS]

00:57:12   money you barely even see yourself you [TS]

00:57:13   see a very few animals like its I mean [TS]

00:57:16   is the harsh reality of game development [TS]

00:57:18   is that all those things you described [TS]

00:57:20   you essentially have to design [TS]

00:57:21   especially game like this that looks [TS]

00:57:22   just amazing like this clear all the [TS]

00:57:24   money went right that's what the [TS]

00:57:26   wilderness is like you can you can ya [TS]

00:57:27   for a day and see nothing except that's [TS]

00:57:30   why I good premise you have to think [TS]

00:57:31   like we have a limited budget for a game [TS]

00:57:32   and we have this ambition to have a [TS]

00:57:34   beautiful forest that means lots of [TS]

00:57:37   interaction with people no lots of [TS]

00:57:39   animals running around know like all [TS]

00:57:41   right so can we design a story where [TS]

00:57:43   those become assets and I think the [TS]

00:57:45   heart of the story in the central part [TS]

00:57:46   is kind of like not gaslighting entirely [TS]

00:57:49   but what they want you to do is realize [TS]

00:57:51   that you're messed up and they want you [TS]

00:57:53   to doubt yourself and Delilah encourages [TS]

00:57:55   you in this of like thinking that you [TS]

00:57:57   know they want you to think this is [TS]

00:57:59   unreliable narrator did I break these [TS]

00:58:01   girls camps in a sequence that I wasn't [TS]

00:58:02   able to control during the plane did I [TS]

00:58:05   set that fire like because people doubt [TS]

00:58:07   you and you try to defend yourself with [TS]

00:58:09   them is playing the game like well maybe [TS]

00:58:11   that wasn't me or maybe is their [TS]

00:58:13   conspiracy might just going nuts out [TS]

00:58:14   here in the woods because that's [TS]

00:58:15   something that happens right when you're [TS]

00:58:16   on the woods to start going a little [TS]

00:58:17   stir-crazy you start assuming things [TS]

00:58:19   that are happening which is the whole [TS]

00:58:21   core of the game [TS]

00:58:22   yeah and people come out here and there [TS]

00:58:24   you know they're not able to handle it [TS]

00:58:26   and it you know this is a type of thing [TS]

00:58:27   to drive to play and type game like this [TS]

00:58:29   can go and one of the directors you can [TS]

00:58:30   go whole hog you can do like a eternal [TS]

00:58:33   darkness type thing where that becomes a [TS]

00:58:34   game mechanic and you know the fighting [TS]

00:58:38   off the trying to maintain your sanity [TS]

00:58:40   or doubting what you see are not being [TS]

00:58:42   able to trust what actually happens in [TS]

00:58:44   the game and it just gets you know it [TS]

00:58:46   just it starts off like oh you're in a [TS]

00:58:47   fire watching by the end of the game [TS]

00:58:48   like there could be aliens falling out [TS]

00:58:50   of the sky and everything can't fire you [TS]

00:58:52   wake up and you know or making all the [TS]

00:58:54   direction this game did which is try to [TS]

00:58:56   lead you in that direction and I thought [TS]

00:58:57   it might only because I was like I don't [TS]

00:58:59   care what they say about Henry I'm going [TS]

00:59:00   to control i'm gonna say Henry keep it [TS]

00:59:02   together [TS]

00:59:02   you are not going nuts you probably [TS]

00:59:04   didn't kill those girls I'm really [TS]

00:59:06   hoping that's not what you did because I [TS]

00:59:07   feel like that's not the kind of guy you [TS]

00:59:08   are Henry and just keep it together in [TS]

00:59:11   the end yet in the end it turns out to [TS]

00:59:13   be a prosaic explanation and I think [TS]

00:59:16   that is exactly what they wanted from [TS]

00:59:17   this game and that he goes this place to [TS]

00:59:19   escape and in some ways the fantasy of [TS]

00:59:22   I've come to this place and there's a [TS]

00:59:25   government conspiracy and people are [TS]

00:59:27   watching me and who knows what's going [TS]

00:59:28   on in this also seekers these woods that [TS]

00:59:31   would be quite an escape from your [TS]

00:59:32   real-life situation but in the end [TS]

00:59:34   wherever you go there you are there's [TS]

00:59:35   not a government conspiracies just one [TS]

00:59:36   person you connected with over long [TS]

00:59:38   distance from your watchtower and in the [TS]

00:59:40   end you got to get back on a chopper and [TS]

00:59:42   go back to civilization a place in the [TS]

00:59:44   same expectations has gone home where [TS]

00:59:45   you're expecting you're playing a game [TS]

00:59:47   it there should be something there [TS]

00:59:48   that's no really really weird how the [TS]

00:59:50   ordinary look at government conspiracy [TS]

00:59:52   and no it's just this where the occult [TS]

00:59:54   or something yeah it's just like nope [TS]

00:59:56   it's simpler than that but the theme of [TS]

00:59:58   the theme of our watches that you are [TS]

00:59:58   the theme of our watches that you are [TS]

01:00:00   growing those words to escape your life [TS]

01:00:02   the whole idea like that it takes that [TS]

01:00:04   escape away from here to say you know [TS]

01:00:07   that this character has come here to get [TS]

01:00:08   away from all these things that he [TS]

01:00:10   doesn't want to think about and wouldn't [TS]

01:00:12   it be nice if there was this amazing [TS]

01:00:13   adventure conspiracy to make him forget [TS]

01:00:15   about all that become the hero of a new [TS]

01:00:16   story but that's not the way it works in [TS]

01:00:19   real life whereas and gone home you [TS]

01:00:21   start thinking like oh is it you know is [TS]

01:00:23   that they're going to be ghosts in this [TS]

01:00:24   kitchen am I gonna you know like the [TS]

01:00:26   bathtub with the red hair dye and [TS]

01:00:28   everything and that is what goes beyond [TS]

01:00:30   home is mostly subverting your [TS]

01:00:31   expectations of game player this I feel [TS]

01:00:33   like is subverting the expectations of [TS]

01:00:35   the character within the game because [TS]

01:00:36   the character within the game took this [TS]

01:00:38   job to get away and the character within [TS]

01:00:41   the game would be entirely susceptible [TS]

01:00:44   to getting all wrapped up into this [TS]

01:00:46   thing like who wouldn't and most people [TS]

01:00:48   would because it's an exciting adventure [TS]

01:00:49   but him even more so you know getting [TS]

01:00:51   wrapped up with Delilah and and the [TS]

01:00:53   things that are going on the mysteries [TS]

01:00:55   of the woods and I think the character [TS]

01:00:56   in the game we'd be just as disappointed [TS]

01:00:58   as a lot of game players are the end of [TS]

01:01:00   you realize though it was all just [TS]

01:01:01   normal stuff and I got to get on the [TS]

01:01:03   chopper [TS]

01:01:03   well did everyone get on the chopper oh [TS]

01:01:05   yeah you can ya do not know you can [TS]

01:01:07   decide to go on tumblr [TS]

01:01:09   that's a bad choice and presently that's [TS]

01:01:11   the whole thing right the the weirdo in [TS]

01:01:13   the root woods is like oh here you can [TS]

01:01:15   have my bunker enjoy it right so you can [TS]

01:01:17   like decided not to go under and ya go [TS]

01:01:20   live in his creepy bunker or burn for [TS]

01:01:23   burn them yeah which is yeah equality [TS]

01:01:25   mukhtar Lucius yeah yeah I do not burn [TS]

01:01:29   to death so somebody so explain this [TS]

01:01:31   because of the war my problems with this [TS]

01:01:33   with this guy i like the idea that you [TS]

01:01:36   you get caught up in all of these things [TS]

01:01:37   but it turns out the the that it's not [TS]

01:01:39   as big story as you think i like that [TS]

01:01:42   but there is a moment or a short series [TS]

01:01:45   of moments late in this game where you [TS]

01:01:48   get the radio thing this is oh they [TS]

01:01:49   found the girls they're fine which takes [TS]

01:01:52   up this whole like what happened to the [TS]

01:01:54   girls did they did they leave they do [TS]

01:01:56   this they get killed what happened to [TS]

01:01:58   them you you get the end it's like up [TS]

01:02:00   forgetting are we gonna get in trouble [TS]

01:02:01   for not exactly bit of it there was some [TS]

01:02:03   panic about the girls and in the middle [TS]

01:02:05   of the game and yeah I kind of like [TS]

01:02:06   wrapped it up for you but then it's just [TS]

01:02:08   literally it's just like oh they found [TS]

01:02:10   the girls are fine right all right is [TS]

01:02:12   not home [TS]

01:02:13   what happens if that's the way we like [TS]

01:02:14   you're doing delilah or inventing this [TS]

01:02:16   this possible drama in the ways it's a [TS]

01:02:18   lot of like you know summer summer [TS]

01:02:20   vacation where you go off and have this [TS]

01:02:21   summer adventure to seem so important [TS]

01:02:23   but in hindsight like nothing really [TS]

01:02:24   happened it's just you and allow you [TS]

01:02:26   have no outside input other than what [TS]

01:02:27   she said she's communicating like there [TS]

01:02:29   really is no voltage from the outside [TS]

01:02:31   world so you can spend days going back [TS]

01:02:32   and forth like where are those girls [TS]

01:02:34   sure you didn't do anything do you [TS]

01:02:36   believe me I know you believe but [TS]

01:02:37   nothing is happening there's no new [TS]

01:02:38   information available here [TS]

01:02:40   you're just spinning out this tale [TS]

01:02:42   amongst yourself because you have [TS]

01:02:43   nothing else to do in the woods yeah and [TS]

01:02:44   you're both like the dialogue get your [TS]

01:02:46   like both kind of camping each other up [TS]

01:02:47   about what's going on like there's one [TS]

01:02:49   point that she's panicking and you're [TS]

01:02:50   like calm down it's okay like we're [TS]

01:02:52   gonna figure this out and then there's [TS]

01:02:53   another point that you're like are you [TS]

01:02:54   even real who are you what's happening [TS]

01:02:56   am I talking to myself and then I can i [TS]

01:02:58   peek of that they're they're suddenly [TS]

01:03:00   afraid to talk about anything because [TS]

01:03:02   they're being listened to [TS]

01:03:03   right and and I'm not that work nicely [TS]

01:03:05   and and that's that that's the thing I [TS]

01:03:06   mean that that's a it's just kind of [TS]

01:03:07   funny that it that it's just punctured [TS]

01:03:09   so quickly but that the this [TS]

01:03:12   I've never even heard of this place [TS]

01:03:14   there's a killer to clipboard you're [TS]

01:03:15   being listened to there's a government [TS]

01:03:17   thing with a chain-link fence we don't [TS]

01:03:19   know what it is we've never seen it [TS]

01:03:20   before [TS]

01:03:21   I'm gonna go break into it they've got [TS]

01:03:24   you no records of our conversations oh [TS]

01:03:26   and now it's on fire somebody explain to [TS]

01:03:29   me what the story is with you without [TS]

01:03:33   just know it's it's it's just a research [TS]

01:03:35   station except Ned has planted things [TS]

01:03:37   there to confuse you so he he's made it [TS]

01:03:39   seem like they're spying on you like [TS]

01:03:41   with everything he's got his little [TS]

01:03:43   typewriter and he's he's making fake [TS]

01:03:45   virus was found a little that was a [TS]

01:03:47   little weak but he didn't make it even [TS]

01:03:49   if you look at their he didn't make that [TS]

01:03:51   many reports like if not report this [TS]

01:03:52   one-page like he's not he's not even [TS]

01:03:54   very good faking it because you're [TS]

01:03:56   caught up in the game you're like oh [TS]

01:03:57   this is stationed in this weird stuff [TS]

01:03:59   and his BP things looks like city [TS]

01:04:00   17-year I'm respecting it don't have to [TS]

01:04:02   come out and attack me two seconds but [TS]

01:04:04   and presumably he starts the fire [TS]

01:04:06   yeah but you realize if you look at [TS]

01:04:08   what's there it's like it's like three [TS]

01:04:10   typewritten sheets of paper with radio [TS]

01:04:12   interceptor always in relation with a [TS]

01:04:14   boring science stuff that you don't [TS]

01:04:15   understand right [TS]

01:04:17   and generally found like that put that [TS]

01:04:18   point of os just some crazy guy in the [TS]

01:04:20   woods he's listening to in writing up [TS]

01:04:22   fake reports like I found that a little [TS]

01:04:23   strange [TS]

01:04:25   and weak have a I don't know a guiding [TS]

01:04:28   force through the game it's like it's [TS]

01:04:29   building up all this like interesting [TS]

01:04:31   stuff the tapping and you're going [TS]

01:04:33   around exploring after get the ax you [TS]

01:04:34   have to do this you have to do that [TS]

01:04:36   you're walking all over the place and [TS]

01:04:37   then all of a sudden it's like oh we [TS]

01:04:39   found it was just like this crazy guy [TS]

01:04:40   making like making stuff up like I'm [TS]

01:04:43   like why would he do with the crazy guy [TS]

01:04:45   do that i would much rather the [TS]

01:04:46   government research have had like you [TS]

01:04:48   break into it and you go down there and [TS]

01:04:50   as you're leaving like a government [TS]

01:04:51   scientists is like dude what are you [TS]

01:04:53   doing you know and but punctures your [TS]

01:04:57   your paranoia about it mom that would [TS]

01:05:00   have felt more reasonable to me this is [TS]

01:05:02   so such a kind of arcane collection of [TS]

01:05:04   things that have been all constructed [TS]

01:05:06   together and it's all in the mind of the [TS]

01:05:08   crazy you know dad if the dead kid who [TS]

01:05:11   lives in his Shack or in his cave and I [TS]

01:05:14   don't know it seemed it seemed a little [TS]

01:05:15   a little too much to me too i I'd almost [TS]

01:05:17   rather have had it just being been [TS]

01:05:19   revealed that the government research [TS]

01:05:20   station is a yeah a government research [TS]

01:05:23   station yeah they're just like had [TS]

01:05:24   taking soil samples were just doing our [TS]

01:05:25   job here did you feel down here guy like [TS]

01:05:28   you're totally a weirdo thanks for [TS]

01:05:30   breaking our lock i guess i got a spare [TS]

01:05:31   i can put on it but come on I am so when [TS]

01:05:34   you say with you you would not happen at [TS]

01:05:36   all though you wanted that pressure let [TS]

01:05:38   out of that little part there instead of [TS]

01:05:39   kept hanging for too long it would have [TS]

01:05:41   been nice if Ned didn't like plant [TS]

01:05:43   evidence you know I mean like sure if [TS]

01:05:45   you some creepy guy lift listening in on [TS]

01:05:47   the radio conversations and like kind of [TS]

01:05:49   you know scaring you here and there by [TS]

01:05:51   like coughing or whatever you find out [TS]

01:05:53   but and planting it in the government [TS]

01:05:55   section it's like a little crazy [TS]

01:05:57   mastermind ploy to tour and yet so far [TS]

01:06:00   like that why would you know I i'll [TS]

01:06:03   accept a certain amount of the crazy guy [TS]

01:06:05   out in the woods but that seemed awfully [TS]

01:06:08   detailed of a plot to I don't know it [TS]

01:06:13   just seems like it I it took me out of [TS]

01:06:15   the game because it seemed to like a [TS]

01:06:17   little bit too much coincidence trying [TS]

01:06:20   to tie those things together i'd almost [TS]

01:06:21   rather they had remained they've been [TS]

01:06:23   untied and it just had been our [TS]

01:06:25   imagination completely separate from [TS]

01:06:27   this crazy guy who was in the woods send [TS]

01:06:30   us down we got so paranoid that we went [TS]

01:06:31   down this other path I don't think he [TS]

01:06:33   needed to be involved I don't think it [TS]

01:06:34   needs to have a fire and be destroyed [TS]

01:06:37   and all of those things that that [TS]

01:06:38   seemed the idea that I was a little [TS]

01:06:40   disappointed in like his final message [TS]

01:06:42   that he leads leaves you because it kind [TS]

01:06:44   of like it didn't feel like it was [TS]

01:06:46   consistent with this person right like I [TS]

01:06:49   mean are they grieving or they totally [TS]

01:06:51   crazy but they're trying to manipulate [TS]

01:06:52   you but they're gonna leave you a [TS]

01:06:54   goodbye message [TS]

01:06:55   yeah I guess you found the body now I'm [TS]

01:06:56   gonna go deeper into the woods but you [TS]

01:06:58   can have my cave [TS]

01:07:00   yeah and i think the starry overall [TS]

01:07:02   would have worked might work better if [TS]

01:07:03   there was instead of being adults if it [TS]

01:07:05   was young kids because again the whole [TS]

01:07:07   thing kind of reminds me of like this x [TS]

01:07:08   like summer camp where you will spin out [TS]

01:07:11   this old world of what's going on at [TS]

01:07:12   summer camp in the creepy cabin in [TS]

01:07:13   reality nothing is going on anywhere [TS]

01:07:15   just a cabin is not currently being used [TS]

01:07:16   because they didn't get enough [TS]

01:07:18   registrations for camp this year but as [TS]

01:07:19   a kid especially a preteen can you can [TS]

01:07:22   spin it out into this whole yeah sort of [TS]

01:07:24   adventure that's going on and in the end [TS]

01:07:27   in the end they will be a boring [TS]

01:07:28   explanation may be that you won't even [TS]

01:07:30   founder maybe when you find it you were [TS]

01:07:31   rejected and always remember that as a [TS]

01:07:33   summer of the Haunted camp and the [TS]

01:07:35   midnight XD escapades or whatever I mean [TS]

01:07:37   what if it had been instead of crazy old [TS]

01:07:38   guy being there for three years what if [TS]

01:07:40   it had been the Sun was living out there [TS]

01:07:42   for a couple months because he doesn't [TS]

01:07:44   know what to do because his dad died but [TS]

01:07:45   I'm saying like if the player characters [TS]

01:07:47   in the game like it Delilah and you were [TS]

01:07:48   you know we're young children instead [TS]

01:07:50   because young kids get caught up in [TS]

01:07:51   these types of stories all the time as [TS]

01:07:52   an adult what you would hope is that the [TS]

01:07:54   adults would see what's going on is just [TS]

01:07:56   prosaic and then like Jason saying is [TS]

01:07:59   basically to get wrapped up and you [TS]

01:08:01   think the game is leading up to become [TS]

01:08:02   grants some grand conspiracy and then to [TS]

01:08:04   find out it's just like you said one [TS]

01:08:05   maniac too far [TS]

01:08:07   that seems like something that as an [TS]

01:08:10   adult you feel like you wouldn't you [TS]

01:08:12   wouldn't fall for either you either it's [TS]

01:08:13   gonna be unreliable narrator and it [TS]

01:08:15   turns out that the nothing you've done [TS]

01:08:17   and seen can be trusted because this guy [TS]

01:08:18   is really damaged and that could be [TS]

01:08:20   entirely different game but if it is [TS]

01:08:21   this game is essentially reliable [TS]

01:08:23   narrator everything you see exactly [TS]

01:08:24   happens exactly the way it does and you [TS]

01:08:26   can argue with I'll about it but in the [TS]

01:08:27   end it's just a series of normal events [TS]

01:08:29   it does seem kind of anti climactic to [TS]

01:08:32   to have a turn out to be as simple and [TS]

01:08:36   straightforward as as the the story is I [TS]

01:08:38   disagree because i feel like in the [TS]

01:08:41   moment as you're playing the game you've [TS]

01:08:43   been there for three hours you discover [TS]

01:08:44   the government facility they're set on [TS]

01:08:46   fire things are going crazy and you're [TS]

01:08:48   wondering what the heck is going on and [TS]

01:08:50   then you figure out that it's entirely [TS]

01:08:51   Ned and when you figure that out that's [TS]

01:08:54   Ned the force is burning up around you [TS]

01:08:56   you found a whole cavern you're freaked [TS]

01:08:58   out because you're led to another [TS]

01:09:00   tracking area it says for Henry go up [TS]

01:09:03   and you're freaking out and you're [TS]

01:09:04   thinking about what you need to do next [TS]

01:09:06   and you need to get through to delilahs [TS]

01:09:09   lookouts and get in the chopper for me [TS]

01:09:11   when I went to his cabin for the first [TS]

01:09:12   time I barely looked around I looked at [TS]

01:09:15   a few things and sprint it out because I [TS]

01:09:16   was terrified of the fire and to me that [TS]

01:09:20   made everything else in the game take a [TS]

01:09:21   backseat to your relationship with [TS]

01:09:23   Delilah and that was just the last nail [TS]

01:09:25   in the coffin for like this game is all [TS]

01:09:28   about you and Delilah and nothing about [TS]

01:09:30   any of the red herrings because you're [TS]

01:09:32   right everything else that happens with [TS]

01:09:33   Ned and brian is relatively tame so I [TS]

01:09:36   feel like instead of saying it's [TS]

01:09:38   anticlimactic for that one magical [TS]

01:09:40   perfect playthrough you have at the very [TS]

01:09:41   beginning it works perfectly because you [TS]

01:09:44   discover that you run over and then the [TS]

01:09:47   last moments of the game are when you [TS]

01:09:49   talk to the lila on the headset in her [TS]

01:09:51   lookout and that is where the little [TS]

01:09:53   signature of the game leaves its mark [TS]

01:09:55   and says hey this is your emotional [TS]

01:09:57   wreck right now because of everything [TS]

01:09:59   else now here we are sitting and talking [TS]

01:10:02   about how how not problematic how tame [TS]

01:10:05   it was and i agree i feel like there [TS]

01:10:07   could be much more done to paint Ned as [TS]

01:10:09   this crazy guy maybe a more sinister [TS]

01:10:12   last thing instead [TS]

01:10:13   yeah I ran out books but there could [TS]

01:10:15   have been more there but I feel like [TS]

01:10:16   instead of going in the direction of tie [TS]

01:10:18   everything together more if there could [TS]

01:10:20   be more in the direction of let's make [TS]

01:10:22   net a crazier character and let the [TS]

01:10:24   chips fall where they may because you [TS]

01:10:25   know what that's like maybe someone in [TS]

01:10:27   the woods is actually doing something to [TS]

01:10:28   screw with you and make your summer [TS]

01:10:31   miserable i don't know but either way [TS]

01:10:32   that's life and for me that makes [TS]

01:10:34   Delilah's relationship all the more [TS]

01:10:36   important in the game because we're [TS]

01:10:38   going from the game is that they want it [TS]

01:10:40   to be that they want you [TS]

01:10:42   the game is about going to escape and [TS]

01:10:44   realizing there is no escape that from [TS]

01:10:46   yourself and from you your issues and [TS]

01:10:47   problems that like allowed the [TS]

01:10:48   relationship allows a similar way like [TS]

01:10:50   they're not particularly subtle subtle [TS]

01:10:51   about it and they realize that most [TS]

01:10:53   people playing the game trying as well [TS]

01:10:56   as they can to try to make Henry make [TS]

01:10:58   better choices are going to as i did [TS]

01:11:00   when i play resist the idea that [TS]

01:11:02   suddenly there's going two [TS]

01:11:03   anything romantic between you and [TS]

01:11:04   Delilah because you're still married and [TS]

01:11:06   you should still care about your wife [TS]

01:11:08   and like when they have you leaving the [TS]

01:11:09   cabin they have your wedding ring [TS]

01:11:10   strategically place but the door and [TS]

01:11:12   choose to put on or not like it really [TS]

01:11:14   hits you over the head but it's clear [TS]

01:11:15   they want you two to think about these [TS]

01:11:17   issues and and make choices and I mean [TS]

01:11:21   like I don't you know I you and I would [TS]

01:11:22   say that that is the the overall it's a [TS]

01:11:24   it's a strange is a strange game to give [TS]

01:11:27   that kind of message the idea that [TS]

01:11:28   people have problems in their life and a [TS]

01:11:33   lot of times it seems like you can [TS]

01:11:34   escape with them through some other kind [TS]

01:11:36   of adventure but in the end you have to [TS]

01:11:38   come back and face them and no matter [TS]

01:11:40   what you do you're gonna find yourself [TS]

01:11:41   in an empty cabin talking to Delilah [TS]

01:11:44   over her own headset and she's gone [TS]

01:11:46   right and he and you know you know and [TS]

01:11:49   what you have to do is go back to your [TS]

01:11:50   wife and that i think was the game is [TS]

01:11:53   trying to get so if if there was [TS]

01:11:55   something exciting and consequential [TS]

01:11:56   like you busted this big conspiracy or [TS]

01:11:58   found out the earth is hollow and filled [TS]

01:12:00   with more locks like that whoa that's [TS]

01:12:02   the knot the game they were making at [TS]

01:12:04   all like that would be like this is [TS]

01:12:06   great in the beginning I was sad because [TS]

01:12:08   my wife was i but I set my wife back to [TS]

01:12:10   Australia or whatever but now this is [TS]

01:12:11   great i'm saving the world's reserves [TS]

01:12:13   conspiracy is a lot of games you can [TS]

01:12:15   murder Morlocks we don't need any more [TS]

01:12:16   of those right there are discovered them [TS]

01:12:18   or any kind of you like it has to be it [TS]

01:12:20   has to be a story that like that doesn't [TS]

01:12:24   you know that there isn't some big grand [TS]

01:12:26   thing that you are doing we got to be [TS]

01:12:27   particularly heroic or save the day or [TS]

01:12:29   anything like that it has to lead you [TS]

01:12:31   back to yourself [TS]

01:12:32   no I like the the thing that I thought [TS]

01:12:35   is really the culmination of this story [TS]

01:12:37   is when you have to go down in the cave [TS]

01:12:38   and you find the dead body and that [TS]

01:12:41   reveals that is what unravels the story [TS]

01:12:44   and so that's that's your crowning [TS]

01:12:45   moment is this really sad thing where is [TS]

01:12:49   this kid fell and died and did he fall [TS]

01:12:53   well yes yes he fell John that I mean I [TS]

01:12:56   think the game mostly leave that open [TS]

01:12:58   yeah I suppose but there's ways we don't [TS]

01:13:00   use on we he fell how he fell remains to [TS]

01:13:03   be seen but he fell a long way I think [TS]

01:13:05   it's a little too well stage for it to [TS]

01:13:08   be a fall [TS]

01:13:08   I don't like the rocks are covering his [TS]

01:13:10   header but I do leave it open i mean [TS]

01:13:11   because you know medical crazy from the [TS]

01:13:13   loss of his son or like I mean that his [TS]

01:13:16   son also said that [TS]

01:13:17   and like climbing so maybe his dad was [TS]

01:13:19   forcing them to climb over like it [TS]

01:13:20   doesn't really matter in the end that's [TS]

01:13:22   not a key plot point in the game but I [TS]

01:13:24   do i do feel like that is a court moment [TS]

01:13:26   because you know I when I going through [TS]

01:13:27   the cave [TS]

01:13:28   I realized that the Sun was probably [TS]

01:13:30   dead down there just because I played a [TS]

01:13:32   lot of games right a lot of stories but [TS]

01:13:33   even saying you even saying there is [TS]

01:13:35   there you see that she was a shoot you [TS]

01:13:37   again as a lot again heavily Telegraph [TS]

01:13:40   but even even knowing that and even [TS]

01:13:41   having accepted that from early on i [TS]

01:13:43   still found it affecting when I on the [TS]

01:13:44   bottom music cue starts up then and it's [TS]

01:13:47   a it's a very it and you do feel like [TS]

01:13:49   you discovered even though obviously you [TS]

01:13:51   can led to this point through a series [TS]

01:13:53   of things that you basically have no [TS]

01:13:54   choice in a felt very very nervous [TS]

01:13:56   stepping over the body like that was the [TS]

01:13:58   only option down there and I was like [TS]

01:14:00   three I felt really weird and very [TS]

01:14:02   uncomfortable and that way like you know [TS]

01:14:05   at that point like I wanted to have a [TS]

01:14:06   conversation with Delilah and you have [TS]

01:14:08   to get out of the cave before you can do [TS]

01:14:10   that yeah that yeah you could also be a [TS]

01:14:12   real bastard to her like after that if i [TS]

01:14:16   accidentally was and that changes your [TS]

01:14:18   relationship with her a time you could [TS]

01:14:20   be like well it's totally your fault [TS]

01:14:22   because you didn't radio this in and [TS]

01:14:25   she's like what how dare you say that to [TS]

01:14:27   me like she gets pissed and you're like [TS]

01:14:28   everything's kind of ruined after that a [TS]

01:14:30   little bit but i did that by accident it [TS]

01:14:32   wasn't my fault but yeah it totally did [TS]

01:14:35   anyone everyone was probably really nice [TS]

01:14:38   we're not monsters yes I'm obviously a [TS]

01:14:40   monster it was an accident i was playing [TS]

01:14:42   on the on the playstation and the button [TS]

01:14:45   it was dark i don't know you want two [TS]

01:14:46   people want to talk about the camera [TS]

01:14:48   my understanding is that if you're [TS]

01:14:49   playing on the computer you get to take [TS]

01:14:51   pictures and have the whole help to the [TS]

01:14:53   end in that you can have them print them [TS]

01:14:56   out and send them to you later [TS]

01:14:58   yeah i thought that was a really fun [TS]

01:15:00   touch i kept having these moments where [TS]

01:15:01   I thought oh I gotta take a picture of [TS]

01:15:03   this which I just thought was all a lot [TS]

01:15:05   of fun to to have that as a mechanic and [TS]

01:15:07   in the game that is pointless [TS]

01:15:09   it has nothing to do with anything it's [TS]

01:15:11   just you're taking pictures of your stay [TS]

01:15:15   in the wilderness on this camera i used [TS]

01:15:17   it to document what i considered [TS]

01:15:19   evidence so I went into pictures of your [TS]

01:15:22   side [TS]

01:15:23   I just I took a photo of his crazy wall [TS]

01:15:26   before we left the lookout station for [TS]

01:15:28   the last time yeah me too but may I took [TS]

01:15:30   photos of you know I I knew it was going [TS]

01:15:33   to be saving my photos so i took [TS]

01:15:34   beautiful nature photography and then I [TS]

01:15:36   got to the end of the game and realized [TS]

01:15:37   that if you play it on the PlayStation 4 [TS]

01:15:39   you don't get to get prints of your [TS]

01:15:41   photos oh I really hope they add that [TS]

01:15:43   because i took some awesome pictures can [TS]

01:15:45   you share them on the way you're getting [TS]

01:15:47   that you can't even see it on about man [TS]

01:15:49   that's too bad it's like when you are [TS]

01:15:51   John when you get the credit they show [TS]

01:15:52   you the pictures that you tip yep that's [TS]

01:15:54   all I know they came out good yeah they [TS]

01:15:55   should they do show your pictures but [TS]

01:15:56   you don't get the web the URL you can go [TS]

01:15:58   to and you don't get to order prints i'm [TS]

01:16:00   always did it the first time I didn't [TS]

01:16:01   get to do that so I played it again on [TS]

01:16:03   steam and it was iight i started playing [TS]

01:16:05   my second place endurance team to start [TS]

01:16:06   I can make up for that i found the [TS]

01:16:08   gameplay even better on steam actually [TS]

01:16:10   then with the controller on the [TS]

01:16:11   PlayStation of course the I mean that [TS]

01:16:13   the nice touch in the disposable camera [TS]

01:16:16   is that it belonged to brian and brian [TS]

01:16:20   and and so as you go back you see all [TS]

01:16:23   the pictures that you took and then you [TS]

01:16:24   see the pictures that he took yep yep [TS]

01:16:26   it's a nice thats that's that that's [TS]

01:16:29   your last little punch that you get as [TS]

01:16:31   you forgot that too is also internet [TS]

01:16:32   using the Sun yeah I want to ask anyone [TS]

01:16:36   else in the very very beginning when you [TS]

01:16:37   first get into the woods like after [TS]

01:16:39   you've kind of established our base and [TS]

01:16:41   you're walking around there's a spot [TS]

01:16:43   where you can hear wind chimes and you [TS]

01:16:45   drove me crazy i couldn't find them [TS]

01:16:48   anywhere and then at the very end of the [TS]

01:16:50   game you hear the wind chimes in you [TS]

01:16:52   know the crazy guys hang out Ned right [TS]

01:16:54   that's his name [TS]

01:16:55   whose banana guys know that created you [TS]

01:16:58   hear the wind chimes where he has like [TS]

01:16:59   that lawn chair on his little like you [TS]

01:17:01   know vista terrace that he made and I [TS]

01:17:04   figured out that the wind chimes you [TS]

01:17:07   hear when you're in the woods have to be [TS]

01:17:08   those right yeah it'sit's uh according [TS]

01:17:10   to the reddit post about it whenever you [TS]

01:17:13   go below his window in the game you hear [TS]

01:17:17   this faint chime and then you don't get [TS]

01:17:19   to it until the end I thought that was a [TS]

01:17:21   really nice touch [TS]

01:17:22   I know because its overall fall out [TS]

01:17:24   where they make it like it's just if you [TS]

01:17:26   happen to find that I out on day one [TS]

01:17:28   the game is over because that's that's [TS]

01:17:30   the title again a different type of game [TS]

01:17:31   that can be fun for starting out of [TS]

01:17:33   people but it all [TS]

01:17:34   requires a bigger budget and some people [TS]

01:17:35   find not fun so uh let's listen in while [TS]

01:17:38   wrapping up here i would like to get [TS]

01:17:40   your final sort of final judgments final [TS]

01:17:43   verdict on fire watch as a whole and how [TS]

01:17:46   you how you how you view it overall [TS]

01:17:49   everybody's been pretty positive but I [TS]

01:17:51   want to check in with everybody and get [TS]

01:17:52   a get a closing remark Tony what's your [TS]

01:17:55   thought about Firewatch overall I think [TS]

01:17:57   generally positive i enjoyed it i would [TS]

01:17:59   recommend it to people especially if [TS]

01:18:01   they liked other story games like gone [TS]

01:18:03   home for the walking dead games or [TS]

01:18:06   things like that i mean i think there [TS]

01:18:07   are a lot of gamers out there who seemed [TS]

01:18:09   to really hate those games and be angry [TS]

01:18:11   that they exist which is a not you know [TS]

01:18:16   I don't know it's sad [TS]

01:18:17   there are so many existence of this key [TS]

01:18:20   does not hurt you [TS]

01:18:21   there are a thousand games where you can [TS]

01:18:23   be a space marine the existence of the [TS]

01:18:25   same does not mean one less space marine [TS]

01:18:27   game there's still more space brain [TS]

01:18:29   games and you can never play so yeah I [TS]

01:18:32   enjoyed it i'm always looking for more [TS]

01:18:34   good story games out there Brian what [TS]

01:18:37   are your final thoughts any more games [TS]

01:18:40   just like Tony said where I can have a [TS]

01:18:42   non-gamer friend over and like get a few [TS]

01:18:45   beers and play through a game like I [TS]

01:18:47   would play or watch a movie with them i [TS]

01:18:49   am 100-percent sold this game to me at [TS]

01:18:51   least is worth getting a ps4 or making [TS]

01:18:54   sure you have a good mac to play cuz my [TS]

01:18:57   2012 mac pro macbook pro did not i do [TS]

01:19:02   this very well at all [TS]

01:19:04   yeah my 5k imac did just fine so I was [TS]

01:19:07   having my 2011 macbook pro had some [TS]

01:19:10   exciting framerate issues but it but I [TS]

01:19:12   made it through that was its good friend [TS]

01:19:14   what are your final thoughts on fire [TS]

01:19:16   watch I thought it was incredibly moving [TS]

01:19:20   despite its in like little flaws I i [TS]

01:19:23   have the same sort of overwhelming [TS]

01:19:25   missed feels that I've had with other [TS]

01:19:27   games like this with games like got home [TS]

01:19:29   I did I will admit I had to spoil myself [TS]

01:19:32   somewhat as soon as I as soon as i got [TS]

01:19:36   knocked out i had to spoil myself [TS]

01:19:38   because I was so terrified that this was [TS]

01:19:41   going to go in a direction that i did [TS]

01:19:42   not want that i was going to be like I [TS]

01:19:44   can't play this game it's going to make [TS]

01:19:45   me unhappy [TS]

01:19:46   i spelled myself just enough to know [TS]

01:19:48   that they were gonna be there were going [TS]

01:19:50   to be any guns in the game and then [TS]

01:19:51   continues I was like okay I can I can [TS]

01:19:54   enjoy myself but I i thought the game [TS]

01:19:58   was wildly affecting primarily because [TS]

01:20:01   of the way that the story interact with [TS]

01:20:03   nature and plays off your sort of your [TS]

01:20:07   feelings about Izzy how how everything [TS]

01:20:11   can get heightened in the woods how [TS]

01:20:12   everything can get twisted and turned [TS]

01:20:14   out of proportion and you know the [TS]

01:20:16   sounds and music and freaky wind chimes [TS]

01:20:19   and random abandoned houses in the in [TS]

01:20:23   the middle of the woods [TS]

01:20:24   even if they don't have anything you [TS]

01:20:26   know any regard to the primary plot they [TS]

01:20:28   still they still capture you they still [TS]

01:20:31   they still make you excited and [TS]

01:20:32   terrified to know what's going on a [TS]

01:20:35   disembodied voices so great I i really [TS]

01:20:39   enjoyed playing it I want to play it [TS]

01:20:41   through again exhale only played it [TS]

01:20:43   through once i want to play it through [TS]

01:20:45   again and make some slightly different [TS]

01:20:47   choices because I i think the voice [TS]

01:20:49   acting in this game was magnificent and [TS]

01:20:52   I really I kind of just want to hear [TS]

01:20:54   more of more of the various dialogue [TS]

01:20:56   that they had that the actors record [TS]

01:20:58   because i really enjoy I enjoy listening [TS]

01:21:01   to Henry and Delilah targets at this is [TS]

01:21:03   really really good banter [TS]

01:21:04   it's a good great audio [TS]

01:21:06   choose-your-own-adventure overall I [TS]

01:21:09   thought it was was really nice it it [TS]

01:21:12   reminded me a lot of gone home and and [TS]

01:21:16   hit me the same way that braid did in a [TS]

01:21:18   strange way i'm just kinda with the with [TS]

01:21:21   the uncomfortable feels the i'm not [TS]

01:21:25   really sure if I like you you feel [TS]

01:21:27   embarrassed you also feel like you [TS]

01:21:29   learned something and and there's a [TS]

01:21:33   sense of wistfulness and longing and [TS]

01:21:34   more most of all it made me want to get [TS]

01:21:38   off of the computer and go to Lake Tahoe [TS]

01:21:40   and spend a weekend in the woods today I [TS]

01:21:42   definitely had that like yeah let's go [TS]

01:21:45   take a hike now I can watch out for [TS]

01:21:47   crazy people at the f10 with your final [TS]

01:21:49   verdict done [TS]

01:21:50   Firewatch i did like it I I came around [TS]

01:21:53   to it but i love the little details that [TS]

01:21:55   that build character in addition to the [TS]

01:21:58   tremendously great voice acting and dial [TS]

01:22:00   like when you can find a hat in the very [TS]

01:22:02   beginning and then like the hats there [TS]

01:22:03   with you and if you don't find the hat [TS]

01:22:05   then you don't have a hat and the every [TS]

01:22:08   time he left the watchtower he'd grab [TS]

01:22:11   the ledge to like swing down stairs like [TS]

01:22:13   that's it's so human and like you get [TS]

01:22:16   really drawn in with moments like that [TS]

01:22:18   or you know with them [TS]

01:22:20   Delilah's final drawing of you like [TS]

01:22:23   however you answered how you look that's [TS]

01:22:25   how the drawing was on her desk and with [TS]

01:22:27   little inside jokes that you made or [TS]

01:22:29   didn't make throughout the game are are [TS]

01:22:32   all there or they're not there and so I [TS]

01:22:34   really enjoyed all of those attention to [TS]

01:22:37   detail that's you know most people [TS]

01:22:39   wouldn't find but the people that do [TS]

01:22:41   find it have that little bit of delight [TS]

01:22:43   when they when they play but I'm you [TS]

01:22:46   know I would have liked it to be you [TS]

01:22:47   know a strong lady going through the [TS]

01:22:49   woods who fell in love with the wire I [TS]

01:22:51   thought that might have been a little [TS]

01:22:52   different that would have been cool [TS]

01:22:53   twist on it but I think as it as it [TS]

01:22:56   played out it was a really great game [TS]

01:22:57   and they did a really great job with the [TS]

01:22:59   budget they had John what's your verdict [TS]

01:23:01   so I tend to like story games like this [TS]

01:23:03   for myself like I like to play them but [TS]

01:23:05   i also like to recommend them because [TS]

01:23:07   Firewatch unlike so many games these [TS]

01:23:10   days for the most part does not ask you [TS]

01:23:12   to do something dexterity wise with a [TS]

01:23:16   time limit with a purpose that doesn't [TS]

01:23:18   ask you to memorize the move set to jump [TS]

01:23:21   on moving platforms to shoot things in [TS]

01:23:24   general no matter how clumsy you are [TS]

01:23:27   from moment to moment with the [TS]

01:23:29   controller or the mouse and the keyboard [TS]

01:23:30   you can you you will be successful in [TS]

01:23:34   the game is a lot of games that don't [TS]

01:23:35   have any states where you can die so [TS]

01:23:37   easily or they're not asking you to do a [TS]

01:23:39   mechanic they're not a virtual athletic [TS]

01:23:42   competition and that lets more people [TS]

01:23:44   enjoy the things that the games you are [TS]

01:23:47   uniquely positioned to do so I i like [TS]

01:23:50   the type of game for myself is just kind [TS]

01:23:51   of a break-in to enjoy different types [TS]

01:23:52   of games it lets games look beautiful [TS]

01:23:55   like this game looks because those [TS]

01:23:56   people because the Gamemakers can put [TS]

01:23:58   their money and their effort into other [TS]

01:23:59   places like the scenery or the the [TS]

01:24:02   dialogue or the voice acting [TS]

01:24:04   whereas if you spend the entire game [TS]

01:24:05   hunting game development process holding [TS]

01:24:07   a game engine for some you know [TS]

01:24:08   shooter a platformer you don't have time [TS]

01:24:10   for that the stuff so that's one respect [TS]

01:24:12   that I really really love this game of [TS]

01:24:14   the other thing is the more unique to [TS]

01:24:16   this game than the other games is I like [TS]

01:24:19   the fact that this game was even though [TS]

01:24:20   structurally so similar to the games [TS]

01:24:22   we've all mentioned that are generally [TS]

01:24:24   not hand-eye coordination games have [TS]

01:24:26   dialogue trees have a story have [TS]

01:24:28   branching plots of varying degrees that [TS]

01:24:31   this game was different than those in [TS]

01:24:33   that it was a different kind of story in [TS]

01:24:35   a different kind of setting with things [TS]

01:24:38   that we didn't expect we spend most of [TS]

01:24:39   this podcast talking about how this game [TS]

01:24:43   subverted your expectations of having a [TS]

01:24:45   protagonist who was include the [TS]

01:24:46   admirable of having to forcing you to [TS]

01:24:48   inhabit this character has bad things [TS]

01:24:49   happen to them of having a plot that [TS]

01:24:51   doesn't follow the traditional structure [TS]

01:24:53   culminating in some grand conspiracy of [TS]

01:24:55   having time a melancholy bummer kind of [TS]

01:24:58   climax and resolution of the story and [TS]

01:25:02   there's a lot of sameness and games even [TS]

01:25:04   within the games are doing now isn't [TS]

01:25:05   gone home totally different than you [TS]

01:25:07   know [TS]

01:25:08   call of duty you're not going home is [TS]

01:25:09   different call of duty but there's still [TS]

01:25:11   so much greater range of the games can [TS]

01:25:14   take even if you think like the range of [TS]

01:25:16   novels and movies are still much broader [TS]

01:25:18   than the envelope of things that games [TS]

01:25:19   feel like they're allowed to do if this [TS]

01:25:21   was a movie no my bad not like oh this [TS]

01:25:23   is really breaking new ground for motors [TS]

01:25:24   plenty of movies about people in the [TS]

01:25:26   woods who are sad weird things happen to [TS]

01:25:28   you and you don't think anything of it [TS]

01:25:29   but four games to do that I think that's [TS]

01:25:32   one of the most important things this [TS]

01:25:33   game does it shows you don't have to [TS]

01:25:35   tell the same kind of stories in the [TS]

01:25:36   same kind of way in the same kind of [TS]

01:25:38   settings all the time and granted yet is [TS]

01:25:41   big you know the w white dude who is the [TS]

01:25:43   main character I can't break ground on [TS]

01:25:45   all fronts but I just like I was like [TS]

01:25:47   the idea that it is that is definitely a [TS]

01:25:50   different weird kind of game even if it [TS]

01:25:52   doesn't appeal to people and you're like [TS]

01:25:53   you know what I would like a different [TS]

01:25:55   kind of game this game and it's weird [TS]

01:25:57   and didn't didn't quite work for me I [TS]

01:25:59   want there to be more games like this so [TS]

01:26:02   even though i think something like gone [TS]

01:26:05   home was like a tighter and better [TS]

01:26:08   realized in the end fire watches its own [TS]

01:26:10   unique snowflake that I'm just glad [TS]

01:26:12   exist and i want to see I'm glad he's [TS]

01:26:15   doing well financially it seems to be [TS]

01:26:17   anyway because i want to see more people [TS]

01:26:18   say I'm [TS]

01:26:19   a weird idea for a game to like and you [TS]

01:26:21   know anything summer-like text [TS]

01:26:23   adventures and much more adventurous how [TS]

01:26:24   you can type whatever you want i can [TS]

01:26:25   text adventures about anything I want [TS]

01:26:28   more games like Firewatch time I really [TS]

01:26:30   enjoy playing it now I i agree fifteen [TS]

01:26:32   or twenty dollars and three or four [TS]

01:26:34   hours i wish there were more games that [TS]

01:26:37   this is the kind of game I want to play [TS]

01:26:39   I don't want to invest in a game that's [TS]

01:26:43   good i'm going to put 200 hours in [TS]

01:26:44   because I'm never gonna put 200 or 100 [TS]

01:26:46   or 50 or 20 hours in a game i'm just not [TS]

01:26:49   going to do it but something like this [TS]

01:26:51   which is substantial to me it's more [TS]

01:26:55   than a movie but it's also not a thing [TS]

01:26:58   that i have to you know just become a [TS]

01:27:00   lifestyle either i really like these [TS]

01:27:02   kinds of games i would love to play more [TS]

01:27:03   of them [TS]

01:27:04   I I i think it's interesting that this [TS]

01:27:06   character is kind of off-putting but I I [TS]

01:27:10   found him I found him off putting to but [TS]

01:27:12   I guess that's part of the point is is [TS]

01:27:14   your you know you're trying to be put in [TS]

01:27:16   a position like we were saying where you [TS]

01:27:18   know wherever you go there you are you [TS]

01:27:20   know we're not happy he's not happy with [TS]

01:27:22   himself and we're not happy with him and [TS]

01:27:23   we're him too so I like that about it [TS]

01:27:26   and I'm what I will take away from it is [TS]

01:27:27   the beauty as much as like kind of [TS]

01:27:29   quibble with the red herrings and the [TS]

01:27:31   ultimate resolution of this mystery and [TS]

01:27:35   I wish it was a little more puncturing [TS]

01:27:37   of just like oh there are no mysteries [TS]

01:27:39   that was all in your head there's [TS]

01:27:40   there's just these different things i [TS]

01:27:42   would have liked that I think better i [TS]

01:27:44   will walk away with the memory of [TS]

01:27:46   wandering around in the woods and that [TS]

01:27:49   was really great and it was beautiful [TS]

01:27:51   and it was fun and I I you know I can't [TS]

01:27:53   believe that I did it but I actually [TS]

01:27:55   advocated for more boring wandering and [TS]

01:27:59   looking at the woods because i actually [TS]

01:28:01   thought that was really great and [TS]

01:28:02   feeling like that's a thing that game [TS]

01:28:05   can do is make you feel like you're [TS]

01:28:07   living in this world that it's it's [TS]

01:28:09   immersive in a way that in the end it [TS]

01:28:10   becomes a real space that you have [TS]

01:28:12   memories of being in this space even [TS]

01:28:15   though it's not a real space and you [TS]

01:28:18   weren't actually in it you know I that [TS]

01:28:20   is the kind of magic the games can do [TS]

01:28:22   that no other form can really do that [TS]

01:28:26   that feeling like your computer there [TS]

01:28:28   and and I will always appreciate that [TS]

01:28:32   about fire [TS]

01:28:32   because of how beautiful that world was [TS]

01:28:34   so just wait for fire watch vr imagine [TS]

01:28:38   then you'll know you'll never need to go [TS]

01:28:40   anywhere to take a hike in the woods [TS]

01:28:43   alright well we're going to close up the [TS]

01:28:44   old video game video game door to the [TS]

01:28:48   clubhouse for now but hopefully there [TS]

01:28:50   will be another game that will emerge at [TS]

01:28:52   some point in the near future that we [TS]

01:28:54   will we will reconvene and because i [TS]

01:28:56   would like to play more games like this [TS]

01:28:58   one like fire watch I'd like to thank my [TS]

01:29:01   panel for joining me to talk about a [TS]

01:29:02   video game Tony sindelar thank you Jason [TS]

01:29:06   was fun [TS]

01:29:07   Tiffany are meant thank you thank you [TS]

01:29:09   already called well thanks feel better [TS]

01:29:12   Thank You president Hamilton thanks for [TS]

01:29:14   being here very happy to be here thank [TS]

01:29:16   you so much [TS]

01:29:17   and of course John siracusa thank you [TS]

01:29:19   about like 650 hours and destiny i'm [TS]

01:29:22   going to be really prepared for destiny [TS]

01:29:23   podcast we have it [TS]

01:29:25   ok already did that so noted thanks [TS]

01:29:28   everybody out there for listening we [TS]

01:29:29   will see you next time [TS]

01:29:32   [Music] [TS]

01:29:50   you know when I first heard the term [TS]

01:29:55   walking simulator I thought it was just [TS]

01:29:57   a mean person on the Internet calling [TS]

01:29:58   these games like claiming just walk [TS]

01:30:01   around your house it's same thing you [TS]

01:30:02   think is better and that's the walking [TS]

01:30:03   simulator but when I went on steam it's [TS]

01:30:07   an actual genre in their directory for [TS]

01:30:11   video games is walking simulators and I [TS]

01:30:14   thought really this is what we're [TS]

01:30:15   calling these now they're they're much [TS]

01:30:17   more than that that's not a no as I said [TS]

01:30:20   I think I don't know another product [TS]

01:30:21   number which one that they did the [TS]

01:30:22   dawning of the the true vr worker when [TS]

01:30:25   the one of the largest categories and [TS]

01:30:27   most profitable categories games as [TS]

01:30:29   literal hiking simulators where there is [TS]

01:30:31   no game of the biggest people hiking in [TS]

01:30:33   the woods all the time there's no game [TS]

01:30:34   they're like you just go in the woods [TS]

01:30:35   because it's a beautiful place to be and [TS]

01:30:37   you so much to our people gamefly [TS]

01:30:39   everything so you know I don't mean like [TS]

01:30:41   like accept these are called walking [TS]

01:30:43   simulator is somewhat drizzly is like [TS]

01:30:45   all you just kind of going through a [TS]

01:30:46   story but not like literally like this [TS]

01:30:48   we have like you know truck simulator is [TS]

01:30:50   driver talking about the country at [TS]

01:30:51   least thing you're driving something [TS]

01:30:52   like hiking simulator is it is just [TS]

01:30:55   woods man that's it get a little Zen [TS]

01:30:58   kind of some people they will only [TS]

01:31:00   settle for murder simulators that's not [TS]

01:31:01   dating you know I started playing euro [TS]

01:31:03   truck simulator and I don't do any of [TS]

01:31:05   the game stuff I just drive around and [TS]

01:31:07   listen to podcasts and it's amazing like [TS]

01:31:08   i feel bad and the game developers who [TS]

01:31:11   actually put a really deep game in there [TS]

01:31:13   i do nothing with it [TS]