184: ‘Hubbo Is in Decline’ With Merlin Mann
00:00:00
◼
►
Oh boy, once you start locking everything down.
00:00:04
◼
►
Wow, can you unlock, can I ask you a question?
00:00:07
◼
►
>> Yeah, you can ask me anything.
00:00:09
◼
►
>> Do you, let me cut this out.
00:00:11
◼
►
Do you unlock your Mac with your watch?
00:00:16
◼
►
>> But I don't wear my watch every day.
00:00:18
◼
►
But it's one of my favorite features and it's actually one of
00:00:22
◼
►
the main motivators for me to wear my watch because I love that feature so much.
00:00:27
◼
►
I do. I trust it. And I find that it works amazingly.
00:00:31
◼
►
It works, you know, over 80% of the time, which is good.
00:00:35
◼
►
But man, switch it. It was a good excuse to finally switch over from two-step to two-factor.
00:00:42
◼
►
Wow. That's a heck of a thing.
00:00:45
◼
►
I did it. And I gotta tell you, I put it off for a long time. I only did it several weeks ago.
00:00:56
◼
►
there was like an update to, I forget if it was a Mac OS update or an iOS update
00:01:02
◼
►
where one of the features was, "Hey, you know, we came out with this unlock your
00:01:06
◼
►
Mac feature with your watch back in October or whatever, but we made it
00:01:10
◼
►
really fast now." And I was like, "You know what? I got to try it. I've been putting
00:01:13
◼
►
this off, and I put it off because I didn't have the two-factor. I had two-step."
00:01:17
◼
►
Am I saying it right? Yeah, yeah. The two-step, I mean, I didn't tell you the
00:01:22
◼
►
spec on this, but if you're trying to determine which one you have running right now, well,
00:01:27
◼
►
it's probably 2-step. And I think the easiest way to tell, and correct me if I'm wrong,
00:01:32
◼
►
I'm sure people will, with 2-step, you get an SMS message with a four-digit code. With
00:01:39
◼
►
2-factor, you get like a more official-looking, like iOS pop-up and a six-digit code. But
00:01:48
◼
►
Switching over is cool.
00:01:51
◼
►
You want to not be having a holiday party when you switch over to two factor.
00:01:57
◼
►
One night I got a MacBook Adorable and I thought, "Okay, I'll give this a spin."
00:02:01
◼
►
And so I thought, "Oh, watch TV.
00:02:05
◼
►
Set up two factor."
00:02:06
◼
►
And I was trying to be that guy.
00:02:07
◼
►
I'm trying to be like security guy.
00:02:09
◼
►
So I don't leave iCloud.
00:02:11
◼
►
I don't tick the button to keep me logged in when I'm on a Mac with iCloud.
00:02:15
◼
►
I don't know why.
00:02:16
◼
►
It's just a dumb superstition.
00:02:17
◼
►
So if memory serves, you've got to go in.
00:02:19
◼
►
You have to-- first, you have to shut off.
00:02:20
◼
►
This is totally like Tom Cruise coming down the line,
00:02:23
◼
►
like-- you land right before you hit the floor.
00:02:26
◼
►
So you've got to log in.
00:02:28
◼
►
And in my case, so I've got to two-factor in.
00:02:31
◼
►
Two-step in.
00:02:32
◼
►
I two-step in.
00:02:33
◼
►
OK, not a problem.
00:02:35
◼
►
Have some drinks?
00:02:35
◼
►
Set up two-factor.
00:02:37
◼
►
So, so far, so good.
00:02:38
◼
►
I two-step in.
00:02:40
◼
►
And first, you've got to shut off two-step.
00:02:45
◼
►
Like, this-- yeah, it makes sense.
00:02:46
◼
►
First you have to shut off two-step, and then to turn on two-factor, and there might be
00:02:51
◼
►
another two-step at that point to make sure you want to shut off two-step.
00:02:55
◼
►
But in any case, then you get to where you have to put in three security questions and
00:03:03
◼
►
optionally I think a phone number.
00:03:07
◼
►
And so I'm that guy, right?
00:03:08
◼
►
So like I don't have the box ticked.
00:03:11
◼
►
Over here I got one password.
00:03:12
◼
►
Oh, by the way, and I was trying to do this on an iPad.
00:03:15
◼
►
So, initially, and so I, and then eventually I moved to the MacBook Adorable, but point
00:03:22
◼
►
being I'm not going to put in like the name of my high school.
00:03:26
◼
►
I'm not going to put in my favorite band or whatever.
00:03:28
◼
►
I have my own way of doing this by using a non-conventional answer to that, but I want
00:03:34
◼
►
to get it exactly right.
00:03:35
◼
►
So I type all of them into 1Password and then I'm copying and pasting them.
00:03:41
◼
►
I hate those security questions because I have a podcast,
00:03:45
◼
►
and on a podcast, I might occasionally--
00:03:47
◼
►
I might tell a story about my first grade teacher.
00:03:53
◼
►
I know that I've told stories about my crazy dog, Chester,
00:03:57
◼
►
from growing up, who used to--
00:04:00
◼
►
My name is definitely John Gruber.
00:04:02
◼
►
My dog is Chester.
00:04:03
◼
►
He would reset everything.
00:04:05
◼
►
He was a great dog.
00:04:06
◼
►
I can't help but tell stories about him.
00:04:08
◼
►
But I mean, those questions--
00:04:09
◼
►
I don't like those questions at all.
00:04:13
◼
►
That stuff seems awful.
00:04:15
◼
►
And because everybody I know who's actually been hacked
00:04:18
◼
►
has been hacked through--
00:04:19
◼
►
or I think so.
00:04:20
◼
►
I think this is true that everybody I know
00:04:22
◼
►
who's had any kind of problems with the hijinks
00:04:26
◼
►
that these things are meant to defend against
00:04:29
◼
►
was hacked through--
00:04:31
◼
►
Social engineering.
00:04:32
◼
►
Social engineering.
00:04:33
◼
►
I was going to say social manipulation.
00:04:36
◼
►
The Matt Honan problem.
00:04:37
◼
►
Right, exactly.
00:04:38
◼
►
Somebody just calls up and says, I'm John Gruber.
00:04:40
◼
►
And oh, yeah, my first grade teacher was so-and-so.
00:04:43
◼
►
And the dog was named Chester.
00:04:46
◼
►
And boom, then they're in.
00:04:48
◼
►
I had an additional problem with the switch from two-step
00:04:50
◼
►
to two-factor with iCloud, where--
00:04:53
◼
►
well, number-- the whole thing is a mess.
00:04:56
◼
►
And I don't even know how I got into this situation, where
00:04:58
◼
►
I'm one of the people who've got two iCloud things, where
00:05:02
◼
►
I've got the one that I use--
00:05:04
◼
►
well, two Apple IDs.
00:05:06
◼
►
Yeah, me too.
00:05:07
◼
►
One for my stuff and one for my media.
00:05:09
◼
►
Yeah, so when I buy stuff, it's with a different account.
00:05:15
◼
►
That's my old-- I still have my old, I think, mac.com or me.com
00:05:19
◼
►
address for that.
00:05:21
◼
►
I even have a third Apple ID, which
00:05:25
◼
►
isn't even an email address.
00:05:27
◼
►
It's just a name, which is from Apple Developer Connection.
00:05:31
◼
►
It was like an ADC account that I set up in 1998.
00:05:35
◼
►
But back then, it was like they didn't use email
00:05:38
◼
►
as your identifier.
00:05:39
◼
►
They just let you pick a name.
00:05:40
◼
►
And so I've still got that.
00:05:42
◼
►
And there's certain things that if I go through ADC,
00:05:45
◼
►
they're like, you need to upgrade this account
00:05:49
◼
►
to an email address.
00:05:50
◼
►
But the problem is that the two email addresses
00:05:52
◼
►
that I most like to use with it are already Apple IDs.
00:05:56
◼
►
So I can't use it.
00:05:57
◼
►
Anyway, but the problem I ran into was I turn off Two-Step.
00:06:01
◼
►
And it is weird.
00:06:02
◼
►
It is like, first step, turn off all of your security
00:06:05
◼
►
on your account.
00:06:07
◼
►
Second step, go through this, and then go in,
00:06:09
◼
►
and like on iOS, you go to like settings, iCloud,
00:06:13
◼
►
click your name, and then there's like,
00:06:15
◼
►
turn on two-factor authentication.
00:06:20
◼
►
Except I would follow those steps and go there,
00:06:22
◼
►
and there was no button that said
00:06:23
◼
►
turn on two-factor authentication.
00:06:25
◼
►
And then I would go on the Mac,
00:06:27
◼
►
and on the Mac, you go to the settings or system prefs,
00:06:30
◼
►
and there's the same type thing,
00:06:32
◼
►
and there's a button.
00:06:33
◼
►
And there was a button to turn on two-factor authentication.
00:06:36
◼
►
And I would click that button, and it would spin--
00:06:38
◼
►
not for a long time, but for like the six or seven seconds
00:06:42
◼
►
you would think that it would take for this to phone home
00:06:45
◼
►
to Apple, and Apple would figure out how to do this.
00:06:49
◼
►
And then it would politely tell me
00:06:50
◼
►
that two-factor authentication cannot be turned on
00:06:52
◼
►
for this account.
00:06:53
◼
►
You know how it is, though.
00:06:57
◼
►
You're having a holiday party.
00:06:58
◼
►
You want to increase your security.
00:07:00
◼
►
And I'm like a terrier.
00:07:01
◼
►
I'm like, on the one hand, I'm like, I'm going to get this done.
00:07:03
◼
►
I know I can do this.
00:07:05
◼
►
And then it becomes like a video game where I'm like, and just to cut to the chase here,
00:07:10
◼
►
I'm not going to tell you how many times I tried to do this.
00:07:12
◼
►
And each time, by the time I got the end to make it go, I was timed out on the website
00:07:19
◼
►
because I hadn't ticked the button.
00:07:20
◼
►
And then I'm like, okay, you know what?
00:07:21
◼
►
That's fine.
00:07:22
◼
►
We're going to do a speed run of this.
00:07:23
◼
►
Let's see if I can do this and finish it without having to tick that button because now I'm
00:07:29
◼
►
And I never could pull it off.
00:07:30
◼
►
And then of course I think, "Okay, you're getting your hands perilously close to the
00:07:34
◼
►
dragon's mouth at this point.
00:07:36
◼
►
Wait till tomorrow morning, wait till the holiday party is over.
00:07:38
◼
►
Do this in the clear light of day."
00:07:40
◼
►
And I did tick the button and it did work.
00:07:42
◼
►
And then of course, everything's blowing up on all the devices letting me know that all
00:07:46
◼
►
these things are available in all these places.
00:07:48
◼
►
But I don't know, it's just another one of those things where, far from I guess security
00:07:52
◼
►
theater, I mean, this is such an important thing for all of us to be working on, but
00:07:58
◼
►
that it is not super consumer friendly.
00:08:02
◼
►
- Well, and I think Apple deserves some praise for this,
00:08:07
◼
►
'cause I think they're more or less doing the right thing.
00:08:09
◼
►
And I think now that I have it working,
00:08:10
◼
►
I do like the way that it works.
00:08:12
◼
►
And I like the new advanced, like you said,
00:08:15
◼
►
like it looks like, instead of just getting a text message
00:08:17
◼
►
or an iMessage or whatever it is with a code,
00:08:19
◼
►
you get like a real nice dialogue,
00:08:21
◼
►
and it even has a map showing you
00:08:23
◼
►
where the thing is trying to log on.
00:08:26
◼
►
So they're doing the right thing.
00:08:29
◼
►
I just think it shows how hard it is to move old systems
00:08:34
◼
►
along to the best practices, right?
00:08:38
◼
►
Because the Apple ID system dates back to,
00:08:42
◼
►
I don't know, late 90s, when it was literally
00:08:45
◼
►
just a username and a password, and that was it.
00:08:49
◼
►
And your password--
00:08:50
◼
►
- I don't think I got one until
00:08:52
◼
►
whatever the original MobileMe thing was,
00:08:55
◼
►
where you got the cards and all that stuff.
00:08:57
◼
►
That's probably when I first got one.
00:08:59
◼
►
You had one, Sir Quesa had one of those
00:09:01
◼
►
just a name things also.
00:09:02
◼
►
- I still have it.
00:09:04
◼
►
Still have it. - Yeah, wow.
00:09:05
◼
►
They didn't make you change it.
00:09:08
◼
►
- I think that they might,
00:09:10
◼
►
I think if I were to say,
00:09:12
◼
►
if I were to release an app in the App Store
00:09:16
◼
►
under that account, I think I would have to update.
00:09:18
◼
►
I'd have to update it to an email address.
00:09:20
◼
►
I think there's a couple of things,
00:09:21
◼
►
and maybe even if I got like a WWDC ticket, I don't know.
00:09:25
◼
►
if I got it on account.
00:09:26
◼
►
Something goes wrong.
00:09:28
◼
►
And it could be like an iTunes problem.
00:09:30
◼
►
Sometimes there'll be these weird--
00:09:33
◼
►
sorry to go on about this.
00:09:34
◼
►
But Sir Keeson and I have talked about this a lot
00:09:36
◼
►
on our program, those mystery me pop-ups
00:09:37
◼
►
that you get periodically for reauthorize with iCloud.
00:09:41
◼
►
And you're like, why reauthorize?
00:09:42
◼
►
What reauthorize?
00:09:43
◼
►
What is this for?
00:09:45
◼
►
If you got that from Google, you'd freak.
00:09:47
◼
►
If you were just using your computer
00:09:49
◼
►
and you got a pop-up message that
00:09:50
◼
►
said reauthorize to Google, you'd be like, what is this?
00:09:53
◼
►
But then you get that thing where it's like,
00:09:55
◼
►
oh, now, you gotta go to the principal's office.
00:09:59
◼
►
You gotta go to appleid.apple.com.
00:10:02
◼
►
You're gonna sit on the bench,
00:10:02
◼
►
you're gonna wait your turn, you're gonna go use,
00:10:04
◼
►
I have not used appleid.apple.com in a while,
00:10:07
◼
►
but every time I've used it,
00:10:09
◼
►
I feel like I'm indie trying to get the head of the idol
00:10:12
◼
►
when I got the bag of sand.
00:10:16
◼
►
I just wanna get outta here without getting speared.
00:10:21
◼
►
Should not have been a much bigger bag of sand.
00:10:24
◼
►
I've thought about it. Because gold, I don't know how... I presume that the idol
00:10:28
◼
►
was hollow to some extent, that it was not a solid...
00:10:31
◼
►
Like a modern chocolate bunny. Yeah, I presume that the idol
00:10:35
◼
►
was like a modern chocolate bunny made of gold, but even so,
00:10:38
◼
►
gold is a very heavy substance, and I feel like that what they chose to do
00:10:43
◼
►
was pick something that was cinematically roughly the same size.
00:10:48
◼
►
sure but I feel like you know I've always it's always bothered me a little
00:10:52
◼
►
bit that see I'm just gonna guesstimate here
00:10:55
◼
►
and I couldn't know without holding the idol in the bag but
00:10:57
◼
►
I'm gonna say three to six times heavier than that back of sand
00:11:01
◼
►
yeah I'm also I'm loathe to criticize the scene because
00:11:04
◼
►
it it famously this is Raiders of the Lost Ark is
00:11:07
◼
►
is arguably my favorite movie of all time depending on what day you ask me
00:11:12
◼
►
uh without question my most beloved movie of all time
00:11:15
◼
►
And the movie, I know without question, it's the movie I've seen the most number of times.
00:11:21
◼
►
And even saying that, and one of the reasons I love the movie is that I love every single
00:11:27
◼
►
scene in the movie. There's not a single clunker, arguably other than the one where
00:11:31
◼
►
Marion hits him with the mirror. I love that. It's a classic. And I mean, my kid will request
00:11:40
◼
►
to watch it. It's still... it's really well put together.
00:11:45
◼
►
Yeah, but that scene in particular is a standout among standouts.
00:11:49
◼
►
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:11:50
◼
►
Here's the reason I know. I think I've told this story before, but maybe not to you. The reason
00:11:53
◼
►
I know that I've seen Raiders of the Lost Ark more than any other movie is that growing up,
00:11:59
◼
►
my friend JD, who lived right down the street from me, had a VCR. And this is before
00:12:05
◼
►
very early years of VCR technology and home video.
00:12:09
◼
►
And you couldn't really even-- it was like before video stores
00:12:14
◼
►
It was like mostly VCRs were for taping shows,
00:12:16
◼
►
and they didn't really--
00:12:17
◼
►
all the studios were just sort of dipping their toes into,
00:12:20
◼
►
like, well, maybe we'll let you watch movies on these tapes.
00:12:24
◼
►
But certainly not the good ones.
00:12:26
◼
►
And somehow JD's dad got a copy of Raiders of the Lost Ark
00:12:31
◼
►
Like, before there were commercial versions of it.
00:12:34
◼
►
I mean, it was like, you know, one of the very early days of movies that fell off the back of a truck.
00:12:40
◼
►
And it was the one and only movie he had. And we both loved it. And so every time it rained
00:12:47
◼
►
in the summer, or like on a Saturday or Sunday, JD would call me up and he would just say,
00:12:52
◼
►
he would say, "You want to watch Raiders?" And I'd say, "I'll be right there." And that's what
00:12:55
◼
►
it was. It wasn't like, "Do you want to watch a movie? Do you want to come over?" He would just
00:12:59
◼
►
call up and say, "Do you want to watch Raiders?" And I would say, "Sure." And I'd go down to his
00:13:03
◼
►
house and we would watch Raiders of the Last Arc and it never got old.
00:13:07
◼
►
The early days of falling off a truck to me were, I want to say, it would have been when
00:13:13
◼
►
I was in high school, probably around the time of Return of the Jedi. HBO would show
00:13:17
◼
►
the first Star Wars movie. And so lots of people of my age and maybe a little bit younger,
00:13:23
◼
►
like they kind of came up watching a VHS home recorded copy. That was the early fall of
00:13:29
◼
►
Now, the crazy thing is, I was in military school for a year, '79 to '80, and we had
00:13:36
◼
►
And the deal was, if we wanted movies, we would pitch in.
00:13:39
◼
►
Like, if you had rich parents, they could donate it.
00:13:41
◼
►
But you'd pitch in, because you could buy movies, but the movies were about $70 to $100.
00:13:47
◼
►
We had a Betamax copy of M*A*S*H, we had The Omen, which was totally inappropriate, but
00:13:54
◼
►
yeah, it was $100.
00:13:55
◼
►
hundred bucks. If you want a copy of M*A*S*H, it was $100. I heard on another podcast, I
00:14:02
◼
►
think, I want to say maybe The Flop House, that that was originally like they were
00:14:05
◼
►
basically building in the cost for the idea that video stores were going to be
00:14:09
◼
►
a thing. Mm-hmm. Yes. So yeah, that you'd buy it and then like rent it a million
00:14:13
◼
►
times, but I don't know. That seems so ludicrous now. I remember the other
00:14:17
◼
►
fallen-off-a-truck movie I remember, and I was pretty excited about it, was
00:14:23
◼
►
probably his 10th birthday. My friend Joey had a sleepover. Joey's dad was a lawyer of
00:14:27
◼
►
arguably ill repute given some of the news coverage in the local town. A lawyer who knew
00:14:35
◼
►
people. Fake news. And so, I don't know, 10 or 11, 10-year-olds sleeping over at Joey's house. We
00:14:40
◼
►
got pizza and Joey's dad said he had a real treat for us. And so Joey's dad says, "There's a treat
00:14:47
◼
►
for you. It might be good. Turns out somehow the guy got a copy of Empire Strikes Back.
00:14:53
◼
►
Oh, come on.
00:14:54
◼
►
I swear. It's like 1983, so it was like two years after it came out. It was probably,
00:14:59
◼
►
we'd all seen it in the theaters because that was when they'd have like next year after it came out,
00:15:03
◼
►
they put it in theaters again. And it was not letterboxed, but it was squished.
00:15:15
◼
►
Like, you got to see the whole--
00:15:18
◼
►
maybe not the whole frame, because that was super widescreen.
00:15:20
◼
►
But you got to see more of the picture.
00:15:22
◼
►
But everybody looked like IG-88, and IG-88 looked like a pencil.
00:15:28
◼
►
And when the Millennium Falcon would twist--
00:15:36
◼
►
when it would be flying one way, it would look fat.
00:15:38
◼
►
And then it would twist to go through asteroids,
00:15:41
◼
►
and it would turn into a piece of paper.
00:15:43
◼
►
Similar thing still happens today. Like if you're in a hotel and you know, they've got like those giant
00:15:48
◼
►
I don't know why this happens
00:15:48
◼
►
They've got giant giant giant TVs and like SD stations and sometimes the settings are different from channel to channel. Yes
00:15:55
◼
►
I'm sure Todd could tell us what the name for this is, but gets real squished up
00:15:58
◼
►
Yeah from some kind of mystery meat aspect ratio. Yeah
00:16:01
◼
►
So, oh my god
00:16:03
◼
►
So still he got a copy of this movie on VHS and it was like once at first we were all we are super excited
00:16:09
◼
►
Then everybody was like what the heck why is everything squished?
00:16:12
◼
►
And then we kind of figured out what was going on and I was kind of super happy about it because surprise surprise
00:16:17
◼
►
Even as a ten-year-old I was a you know a bit of a nerd about hey, just you know pan and scan sucks. I
00:16:27
◼
►
Once once I got like five so glad to learn the name for that because I don't think I knew it back then
00:16:32
◼
►
I but I watch everything you remember the James Bond movies where the James Bond movies would be on you'd be like, whoa
00:16:37
◼
►
That's that's weird. Like you never see that kind of weird thing in a movie
00:16:40
◼
►
But yeah, totally the James Bond movies were so full of those. Yeah. So anyway, I was really excited
00:16:44
◼
►
That's that's it was a very fond of memory. So thank you Joey's dad
00:16:48
◼
►
Wherever you are
00:16:50
◼
►
Nice memories. All right. Let me take a break. I got a feed. I gotta fit some of these
00:16:54
◼
►
What I come sponsors in it's been a while since I've had an episode I don't know it's one thing that it's a long story
00:17:01
◼
►
And I'm not gonna tell it's boring. But yeah, I got I got to thank some of these sponsors and I love them all
00:17:06
◼
►
I love him to death. Here's the first one era
00:17:09
◼
►
Eero is a modern system of Wi-Fi routers.
00:17:14
◼
►
The single router model, it's nonsense.
00:17:18
◼
►
We've moved past it.
00:17:19
◼
►
That's 1999 technology, where you buy a box,
00:17:23
◼
►
stick it next to your cable modem in whatever room that is,
00:17:25
◼
►
and then hope that the signal goes through all the walls
00:17:28
◼
►
and floors of your house.
00:17:29
◼
►
No, the right way to do it, the modern way to do it,
00:17:32
◼
►
is to set up a mesh network.
00:17:33
◼
►
You buy the Eero, you get like three or four
00:17:36
◼
►
these little pucks.
00:17:37
◼
►
They're each the size of a Apple TV.
00:17:39
◼
►
They're all the same.
00:17:40
◼
►
You just pick one, whichever one,
00:17:41
◼
►
the first one you take out of the box
00:17:43
◼
►
is the one you hook up to the cable modem.
00:17:45
◼
►
And that's like the master one.
00:17:46
◼
►
And then you hook up these other ones throughout the house
00:17:49
◼
►
and they have a helpful app that tells you
00:17:51
◼
►
the best strategy for where to place them.
00:17:54
◼
►
I think they even recommend, they have like a square footage
00:17:57
◼
►
and they recommend one for every thousand square feet.
00:18:00
◼
►
They have a beautiful app, you put it on your iPhone
00:18:02
◼
►
and the app lets you set everything up.
00:18:05
◼
►
just tap tap tap and then all of a sudden you've got a new wi-fi network in your house that is
00:18:11
◼
►
a faster than whatever you've already got if you've got a couple of years old router and b
00:18:17
◼
►
will give you a signal that's the same all through your house so like if you've got like a master
00:18:23
◼
►
bedroom two floors up that gets a poor signal that's not a problem anymore it works great i
00:18:29
◼
►
don't know anybody who's got one of these who doesn't think it's an upgrade over whatever it
00:18:33
◼
►
it is they replaced it with. Is it perfect? No, nothing's perfect. But they've got great
00:18:37
◼
►
customer service, the app is great, and they keep releasing updates that keep making it
00:18:42
◼
►
better. It's really, really great. This is a great company. Here, it's currently rated
00:18:47
◼
►
4.4 stars on Amazon with a whopping 750 reviews. They offer a one-year warranty and it will
00:18:54
◼
►
work with your existing modem and internet service. You're just replacing the router.
00:18:58
◼
►
it. So what do you get? For $399, you get a three-pack that's $100 off. And for $299,
00:19:07
◼
►
you get a two-pack that's $50 off. So go to Eero.com and use the code "THETALKSHOW"
00:19:17
◼
►
the talk show, and you'll get free expedited shipping. If you order, if you listen, I don't
00:19:24
◼
►
know when this show is going to pop out of the internet tubes, but you could get one
00:19:28
◼
►
by the end of the week. So go ahead. If you need a new air airport, you got to do this.
00:19:32
◼
►
You know something, John? I want to say something about Eero. I'll tell you about Eero. These
00:19:34
◼
►
guys are not jackals. They're not jackals. This is the real deal. You put this in your
00:19:39
◼
►
house, first of all, like you say, you pick any one of them. You can mix them up. You
00:19:42
◼
►
can play shell game. You start with one of these. It tells you, "Oh, do the other one.
00:19:45
◼
►
Do the other one. Now do the other one." And you know what? Parts of your house that
00:19:49
◼
►
you thought just couldn't get the internet, you get the internet. And it's like my friend
00:19:52
◼
►
Mike Hurley says, "Imagine that just suddenly at certain points during the day, part of
00:19:55
◼
►
your house just didn't get electric like that's what it feels like nowadays and
00:19:58
◼
►
this thing it works a treat and the app is just terrific not jackals it yeah
00:20:04
◼
►
really good stuff I just love I always hated the way with the other ones the
00:20:07
◼
►
old ones it was one of the reasons I like the Apple one everyone Apple used
00:20:11
◼
►
to make stuff like this I remember my other brand right they used to be Apple
00:20:15
◼
►
yeah but the other ones you used to like type in on a web browser like a magic
00:20:21
◼
►
localhost web address and you'd get like the one hundred you go in there and you
00:20:30
◼
►
get into your links this admin admin I used to have a list in nvalt of every
00:20:37
◼
►
default password so no matter where I was there was a pretty good chance I get
00:20:41
◼
►
onto somebody's wife I was good I don't want to save it for the end I want to
00:20:50
◼
►
get this out of the way because it's important.
00:20:52
◼
►
It's why I got you on the horn to see if you could come on the show.
00:20:56
◼
►
Because I feel that technology press in general,
00:21:03
◼
►
but even in our circle where--
00:21:06
◼
►
I'd say in general, people say that the tech industry--
00:21:09
◼
►
a lot of people mean like a 30 mile circle around San Francisco and--
00:21:16
◼
►
Yeah, because consumer devices and your services and your Facebooks
00:21:19
◼
►
and the thingies you use to turn on your internet lights.
00:21:21
◼
►
- But there's all sorts of other technology
00:21:23
◼
►
and it's advancing at quick paces
00:21:25
◼
►
and the technology media doesn't cover it.
00:21:28
◼
►
And here's a bit of it that I encountered this week.
00:21:31
◼
►
I was watching some of the college basketball on the TV
00:21:35
◼
►
and I saw a 15 second commercial from American Standard.
00:21:40
◼
►
Are you familiar with this company?
00:21:41
◼
►
- I am now, yeah.
00:21:42
◼
►
- American Standard is a maker of toilets and urinals.
00:21:48
◼
►
- You probably peed on their logo,
00:21:50
◼
►
like when you go to a ball game.
00:21:52
◼
►
They have a new technology called Vormax.
00:21:54
◼
►
It's anti-splatter flush technology.
00:21:57
◼
►
Now I'm gonna put this in the show notes.
00:22:00
◼
►
I swear to God, I know it's a running joke
00:22:02
◼
►
that I often say I'm gonna put something in the show notes.
00:22:05
◼
►
This one's going in, and I'm gonna put it
00:22:07
◼
►
at the top of the list of links,
00:22:09
◼
►
even if it's not the first thing we talked about.
00:22:11
◼
►
So what I recommend for everybody listening
00:22:13
◼
►
is pause the show, hit pause.
00:22:16
◼
►
in your little podcast app, go to the show notes
00:22:19
◼
►
and hit the first thing.
00:22:19
◼
►
It'll be very clearly labeled,
00:22:21
◼
►
American Standard Voramax Anti-Splatter Flush Technology.
00:22:25
◼
►
And watch this commercial.
00:22:27
◼
►
It's 15 seconds, so it's, you know,
00:22:29
◼
►
you'll be back here before you know it.
00:22:31
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:22:38
◼
►
- I didn't realize--
00:22:40
◼
►
- It's clean.
00:22:41
◼
►
- You know, shame on, it's clean.
00:22:43
◼
►
Shame on me.
00:22:44
◼
►
I did not know what a problem this was until I watched this.
00:22:50
◼
►
I saw this commercial, and the first thing I thought
00:22:53
◼
►
was, what the hell did I just see?
00:22:56
◼
►
And then the second thing I thought was, I got to show this to Merlin.
00:23:00
◼
►
I've been reviewing their videos.
00:23:06
◼
►
They have a couple funny videos like this one that are very funny.
00:23:10
◼
►
They have some that are really straight that are actually very upsetting.
00:23:13
◼
►
I really can't recommend cause here's the thing, John,
00:23:18
◼
►
what a lot of people don't understand is there's a problem with splatter.
00:23:21
◼
►
So I guess the problem with splatter is that your standard American low flow
00:23:28
◼
►
toilet is not doing a good enough job of,
00:23:30
◼
►
of a sluicing daddy splatter away in a way that's acceptable to mom.
00:23:34
◼
►
It's, it's taken away. It's taking away the bulk.
00:23:38
◼
►
The bulk, the bulk. Yeah. Right. It's just the bulk,
00:23:42
◼
►
but misses the splatter. It's taken away the bulk. It's taken away the yellow.
00:23:46
◼
►
Right. How many times has this happened to you? Right.
00:23:49
◼
►
With the splatter? Yeah. No, no. I mean, I'm saying,
00:23:54
◼
►
I'm saying it's like an infomercial now in some of the other ones,
00:23:57
◼
►
they illustrate how effectively splatter is removed. In one case,
00:24:01
◼
►
I think they like show you how to flush ping pong balls down your toilet,
00:24:04
◼
►
But there's one I really do not recommend watching,
00:24:07
◼
►
where they simulate splatter in a toilet with what I'm hoping is fudge.
00:24:15
◼
►
There's matter.
00:24:15
◼
►
There's matter in there.
00:24:17
◼
►
It's like an artist's palette.
00:24:18
◼
►
And it's brown?
00:24:20
◼
►
It's like somebody put $3 of Nutella.
00:24:22
◼
►
It's like a flight of Nutella across the back.
00:24:25
◼
►
And then at the bottom, you got some kind of straw matter.
00:24:27
◼
►
I'm not sure what it is.
00:24:28
◼
►
But boy, it just cleans it right out.
00:24:30
◼
►
The splatter just sluices right away.
00:24:32
◼
►
In the commercial that I'm talking about, I feel that every single aspect of this commercial is worth analyzing.
00:24:37
◼
►
So number one, it starts with a hubbo splattering ketchup on his polo shirt.
00:24:46
◼
►
Now he seems a bit of a doddering fool.
00:24:50
◼
►
You're talking about it's a retiree enjoying an outdoor meal together, and he's going to put some ketchup on his wiener.
00:24:56
◼
►
He gives it a good shake.
00:24:58
◼
►
I feel it's one of these couples though where Hubbo is in decline and wifey is still sharp
00:25:07
◼
►
as a tack and she's starting to get a little sick of Hubbo's shit.
00:25:16
◼
►
Oh, I see what you're saying.
00:25:18
◼
►
Things are declining.
00:25:20
◼
►
Oh God, yes.
00:25:21
◼
►
Maybe you should cut down on the hot dogs.
00:25:23
◼
►
So here's how I read it.
00:25:24
◼
►
I read this story as Hubbo is in decline,
00:25:29
◼
►
and he's splattering all over the toilet.
00:25:32
◼
►
And the wife is so sick of this mess
00:25:35
◼
►
that she's taken it into her own hands.
00:25:37
◼
►
She's done a Marco, and she's done a deep dive on toilets.
00:25:41
◼
►
This is her headphones.
00:25:42
◼
►
Right, this is her headphones.
00:25:44
◼
►
And she is now completely up to speed
00:25:47
◼
►
on modern flushing technology and has replaced the toilet,
00:25:50
◼
►
and at least in-- maybe all of them, probably.
00:25:53
◼
►
They look well off, so she could maybe just come in
00:25:55
◼
►
and just get all the toilets.
00:25:56
◼
►
- Well, they can afford a toilet on their patio, so.
00:25:58
◼
►
- Right, right, we haven't even gotten to that yet.
00:26:02
◼
►
Like, let's put one out here
00:26:05
◼
►
just in case he can't make it inside.
00:26:08
◼
►
- What's the second charge for $259?
00:26:10
◼
►
She's had it with Splatter, and she addresses the audience.
00:26:21
◼
►
It's illustrated with the blue material,
00:26:24
◼
►
a pleasant blue material, which rings a bell
00:26:26
◼
►
from some feminine hygiene product commercials
00:26:29
◼
►
I've seen over the years. (laughs)
00:26:32
◼
►
- Oh, right, it always absorbs blue.
00:26:34
◼
►
- Right, there's-- - That's a good point.
00:26:35
◼
►
- Blue is the universal, seems to be the universal color
00:26:38
◼
►
for what are otherwise considered
00:26:41
◼
►
unpleasant bodily emissions.
00:26:45
◼
►
Nothing we emit is blue.
00:26:46
◼
►
Blue does seem to be a nice color.
00:26:48
◼
►
And so if you want to illustrate the absorbency of, say,
00:26:54
◼
►
a tampon or a feminine napkin or a splatter on a toilet,
00:27:01
◼
►
you use blue.
00:27:07
◼
►
Sorry, I'm just scrubbing a little bit here.
00:27:11
◼
►
They have a toilet on their deck.
00:27:14
◼
►
Just sitting there.
00:27:16
◼
►
It bothers me a little that it's at a tilted angle.
00:27:19
◼
►
It's not quite squared up, aligned
00:27:20
◼
►
with the decks of the--
00:27:22
◼
►
the planks of the deck.
00:27:23
◼
►
Yeah, that would drive cable crazy.
00:27:25
◼
►
Yeah, that--
00:27:26
◼
►
That misalignment.
00:27:27
◼
►
Like, who installed that?
00:27:29
◼
►
What's the deal?
00:27:32
◼
►
You get a nice toilet like this, you know,
00:27:34
◼
►
I think you want to invest in it in a proper--
00:27:36
◼
►
yeah, I mean, this is--
00:27:38
◼
►
this is a little bit like a Marquez commercial.
00:27:41
◼
►
I think it's a little bit magically real.
00:27:44
◼
►
Yeah, I'm not--
00:27:45
◼
►
I realize that, I do realize, all joking aside, I realize that we're not meant to assume that
00:27:51
◼
►
this is depicting a couple who literally put an open-air toilet on their deck.
00:27:57
◼
►
I realize that they're taking shortcuts for the sake of brevity in that style that was
00:28:03
◼
►
sort of maybe epitomized by...
00:28:06
◼
►
I forget, I don't know what I'm talking about.
00:28:12
◼
►
You know a sort of absurdist style of yes, yes
00:28:15
◼
►
Well, even you go back to the days of the tidy bowl man tidy bowl, man
00:28:19
◼
►
Remember the little guy little Commodore and your toilet? Yeah, he swam around in there. He lived in there
00:28:23
◼
►
He looked pretty happy in there. Yeah, even though even though when there was weather it was not good. Whoa
00:28:30
◼
►
That's the forecast captain
00:28:33
◼
►
Splatter splatter
00:28:38
◼
►
Mmm. All right. I think the commercial is notable
00:28:42
◼
►
Even without the capper.
00:28:45
◼
►
But the capper...
00:28:50
◼
►
I swear I almost had a stroke when the woman's head popped out of the toilet.
00:28:54
◼
►
Woman's head pops out of the toilet and she says, "It's clean!"
00:28:57
◼
►
She announces, "It's clean!"
00:28:59
◼
►
And this is a leitmotif. Now if you watch the one called "Klinger"...
00:29:02
◼
►
Did you see "Klinger"?
00:29:03
◼
►
No, I did not see "Klinger".
00:29:04
◼
►
Oh, click over there on the right. Go to American Standard Vormax toilet. Go to "Klinger".
00:29:09
◼
►
Take a minute and enjoy that one.
00:29:24
◼
►
And there's a third one called Skidmarks.
00:29:26
◼
►
Were you aware of how insufficient the flushing
00:29:34
◼
►
technology is in your toilets in your house?
00:29:36
◼
►
Well, when we get to the analysis phase of this,
00:29:38
◼
►
I do have a lot of thoughts on this.
00:29:40
◼
►
But no, I have to be honest with you.
00:29:43
◼
►
Barring, let's say, the bathroom at a cinema or a sports event,
00:29:47
◼
►
I do not encounter these problems as much.
00:29:51
◼
►
And we've got a pretty low flow, old school toilet dingus.
00:29:58
◼
►
Maybe we're just lucky.
00:29:59
◼
►
Maybe it's the probiotics.
00:30:00
◼
►
I don't know.
00:30:01
◼
►
Something's working for us.
00:30:02
◼
►
Pound sign blessed.
00:30:03
◼
►
But there's so much to it, because part of it
00:30:08
◼
►
also it implies not only that this guy causes splatter but he doesn't notice it
00:30:13
◼
►
and doesn't like give a second you know backup flush. The old guy. Yeah right
00:30:19
◼
►
Hubbo. If I if I went in and let's be honest we all ruin a bathroom sometimes
00:30:23
◼
►
it happens it's part of being an adult if I went in there and really shamed if
00:30:27
◼
►
I shamed the bathroom I would want to do a little bit of cleanup maybe light a
00:30:30
◼
►
match you shoot a little bit of a little bit of glade right but I would most
00:30:34
◼
►
definitely do a visual inspection of the bowl for a skid mark or a spotter or if you like a clinger.
00:30:42
◼
►
Give the toilet a chance to catch its breath, refill the bowl.
00:30:45
◼
►
Right. Give it a second chance.
00:30:48
◼
►
Like a full flush though, you know what I mean? Like if you don't wait, you kind of get like a,
00:30:53
◼
►
you get a wimpy flush, you know what I mean? You got to catch your breath. It's like,
00:30:56
◼
►
the flush is like a hundred yard dash. If you want it to run another hundred yard dash,
00:31:00
◼
►
you got to give it a chance to catch its breath. If you tell, go.
00:31:03
◼
►
This is a chance for you to wash your hands, you could look at your phone, you could go
00:31:06
◼
►
through somebody's medicine cabinet.
00:31:08
◼
►
They definitely should be washing their hands.
00:31:13
◼
►
Is this too gross, Jon?
00:31:15
◼
►
I mean, this is obvious this is a real problem.
00:31:17
◼
►
This is, you know, yeah, I don't know.
00:31:21
◼
►
My guess is that they started with...
00:31:25
◼
►
Here's a complaint I do here, is the whole low flow problem of like the modern house,
00:31:30
◼
►
You get a low flow shower that's not satisfying.
00:31:33
◼
►
You get a toilet that requires like six flushes.
00:31:37
◼
►
People get frustrated about that.
00:31:39
◼
►
What's interesting about this, though,
00:31:40
◼
►
is also if you watch their--
00:31:42
◼
►
if one were the sort of person to watch
00:31:44
◼
►
many videos from this company about how the toilets are made,
00:31:48
◼
►
if you were that sort of person, you
00:31:49
◼
►
would see they're really also playing up
00:31:51
◼
►
how easy it is to clean.
00:31:52
◼
►
They've done something revolutionary with the outer
00:31:54
◼
►
rim so you don't get germs and matter on the outside.
00:32:01
◼
►
I think one thing, though, I think that when middle class white people are
00:32:07
◼
►
upgrading, I think the kitchens are one.
00:32:09
◼
►
People put a lot of money into their kitchens.
00:32:11
◼
►
And I think people really like putting money into their bathroom.
00:32:16
◼
►
Don't you think?
00:32:17
◼
►
Oh, I do, too.
00:32:17
◼
►
I think it's a very modern way of upgrading your house.
00:32:24
◼
►
I mean, when you and I were kids, I mean, your bathroom was--
00:32:27
◼
►
I mean, not that they were saying--
00:32:29
◼
►
It was simply, is it clean or is it not clean?
00:32:31
◼
►
And that meant it was a nice bathroom
00:32:33
◼
►
or not a nice bathroom.
00:32:34
◼
►
And that was it.
00:32:35
◼
►
But it was like everybody had the same sink.
00:32:37
◼
►
It was just a white rectangle.
00:32:40
◼
►
- Yeah, my grandparents' second, their half bath,
00:32:43
◼
►
had a wooden toilet seat.
00:32:44
◼
►
I'll never forget.
00:32:46
◼
►
- And the only real option was whether you got the,
00:32:51
◼
►
you got two faucets, a hot and a cold,
00:32:56
◼
►
or if you had the one and you kind of,
00:32:58
◼
►
you know, steered around like a joystick
00:33:00
◼
►
to adjust the temperature.
00:33:01
◼
►
And that was it, you didn't have any other choices.
00:33:03
◼
►
It all came out of the same spigot.
00:33:05
◼
►
And now, it's, you know, people are, yeah,
00:33:07
◼
►
people are getting deluxe toilets, European-style toilets.
00:33:10
◼
►
- Oh, and you get a Toto on there?
00:33:13
◼
►
- That's a popular thing.
00:33:14
◼
►
- I'm not familiar, what is that?
00:33:16
◼
►
- Oh, Toto, it's like an aftermarket bidet.
00:33:19
◼
►
- Ah, I see. - You put it on there,
00:33:20
◼
►
and it squirts hot water onto your downstairs?
00:33:24
◼
►
- Yeah, well, that sounds good.
00:33:26
◼
►
- It's better than it sounds.
00:33:27
◼
►
First you scoff, and then pretty soon you're ready to give it a ring.
00:33:31
◼
►
It's quite a thing.
00:33:33
◼
►
Well, Kotke's been on this for years.
00:33:36
◼
►
It might even be 10 years ago where Kotke broke the barrier of, "Let's talk about this
00:33:44
◼
►
Would you clean, let's just say, well, here's a fine example from the earlier commercial.
00:33:50
◼
►
Let's say that a member of your family ate a hot dog with ketchup on a plate.
00:33:56
◼
►
Would you wash that plate with a dry paper towel?
00:33:58
◼
►
Yeah, give it a quick swipe and then just put it back in the cabinet.
00:34:01
◼
►
Just a dry paper towel and then put that in the cabinet.
00:34:04
◼
►
Jon, other countries think that we are monstrous.
00:34:08
◼
►
They think that they… well, you know what?
00:34:10
◼
►
We'll save it.
00:34:12
◼
►
It might have been a canary in a coal mine, actually.
00:34:16
◼
►
Now that you think about it.
00:34:18
◼
►
They might have been onto something.
00:34:20
◼
►
I sent you to this page on the Vormax toilet technology site.
00:34:23
◼
►
Well, they got trademarks on everything.
00:34:25
◼
►
Yeah, so you checked out the various different models.
00:34:29
◼
►
They got white label versions of this toilet.
00:34:31
◼
►
You can buy at different places.
00:34:32
◼
►
They got the Heritage.
00:34:33
◼
►
They got the Astute, the Esteem, the Optum, and the Ultima.
00:34:38
◼
►
They seem to all be the same toilet?
00:34:40
◼
►
They look exactly the same to me.
00:34:43
◼
►
But there's a different name for the one at Lowe's and a different name for the one at
00:34:47
◼
►
See, it's like buying mattresses, right?
00:34:49
◼
►
It's a racket.
00:34:50
◼
►
It's exactly like buying mattresses.
00:34:52
◼
►
Mmm. Exclusively at Lowe's.
00:34:56
◼
►
You know what? I'll bet somebody's gonna come along and disrupt the toilet industry
00:35:00
◼
►
and I'll be selling toilets on this podcast within a year.
00:35:03
◼
►
I think you might be onto something. You think about the disruptions in industry.
00:35:08
◼
►
You can have silver underpants. You could get yourself an internet mattress.
00:35:13
◼
►
Right. There's so many of these new kinds of services. You could get like a box full of socks.
00:35:18
◼
►
Internet eyeglasses? Internet eyeglasses, huge.
00:35:21
◼
►
But there's still a big hole, if you like, waiting to be filled with internet toilets.
00:35:29
◼
►
So what would that be?
00:35:30
◼
►
Now, first of all, it's got to be affordable.
00:35:32
◼
►
It's got to come in an impossibly small box, engineered in America.
00:35:37
◼
►
It'll be, and the toilet arrives, you can carry it up the stairs by yourself.
00:35:42
◼
►
You slit open the package and it goes, "Phew," and the toilet comes to life.
00:35:46
◼
►
It's probably Wi-Fi enabled.
00:35:48
◼
►
It's got push notifications, if you know what I mean.
00:35:49
◼
►
know what? And the Wi-Fi, you probably get it on the Wi-Fi first. And it... hmm... I was
00:35:55
◼
►
gonna suggest... You hook it up to your ear. Oh yeah, I was gonna suggest that it have a
00:35:59
◼
►
camera, but that's not right. Here's how I think it would, because you don't want a
00:36:02
◼
►
camera on the toilet. I'm gonna say it comes with an app that you put on your
00:36:06
◼
►
phone, and then it can use your phone camera, and you just point it at your old
00:36:10
◼
►
toilet, and it it it'll do like a, "Okay, here's the water hook up and whatever,"
00:36:15
◼
►
and then it'll just install itself. Yeah. I, you know, I wouldn't say it's not going to happen.
00:36:23
◼
►
Because people are interested in technology. There are things in my home right now that are
00:36:28
◼
►
unnecessarily complex, technical, technological products I could never have imagined owning,
00:36:36
◼
►
like existing, let alone owning, ten years ago. You know? You know, and a lot of things start out
00:36:42
◼
►
as jokes and everybody thinks it's a joke and then it becomes, you know, it becomes a real thing,
00:36:47
◼
►
you know, like some of the gags in the Back to the Future when they went into the future,
00:36:51
◼
►
you know, and now, you know, you've got these things, you know, like the hoverboards and whatnot.
00:36:55
◼
►
We laugh about it but you wait and see, you wait and see if these internet toilets,
00:37:00
◼
►
if they won't let you take one right out on the deck.
00:37:02
◼
►
Have little wheels on it?
00:37:06
◼
►
You can just lock, it'll detect when you sit down and then it'll lock the wheels so you're not
00:37:12
◼
►
sliding around while you're doing your business.
00:37:15
◼
►
Think you'd have to slide to unlock?
00:37:19
◼
►
Because you don't want everybody just using your patio toilet.
00:37:23
◼
►
I mean, save something for me.
00:37:27
◼
►
Like, we'd mentioned, for example,
00:37:28
◼
►
we might want to talk about voice stuff.
00:37:30
◼
►
That voice stuff, to me, is just one example of many things
00:37:32
◼
►
where, like--
00:37:33
◼
►
it is funny where we are right now with voice.
00:37:36
◼
►
And I have to admit, I'm a little bit
00:37:37
◼
►
obsessed with voice stuff and what
00:37:39
◼
►
what it portends for the future, for worse or mostly better,
00:37:43
◼
►
in my opinion.
00:37:44
◼
►
But it is very interesting to live at this time
00:37:46
◼
►
where you can kind of have your feet in these two
00:37:47
◼
►
different sides of the creek.
00:37:49
◼
►
On the one hand, it is incredible what
00:37:51
◼
►
you can do with your voice.
00:37:52
◼
►
But it is also incredible how terrible
00:37:53
◼
►
it is so much of the time.
00:37:55
◼
►
We are living through a very interesting transition.
00:37:59
◼
►
Now, something like Wi-Fi.
00:38:00
◼
►
I was just thinking about this the other day.
00:38:01
◼
►
Like, I'm trying to remember when I first
00:38:02
◼
►
had exposure to Wi-Fi.
00:38:04
◼
►
And I think-- I remember becoming a big deal around the time
00:38:08
◼
►
I first went to the E-Tech,
00:38:09
◼
►
the Emerging Technology Conference,
00:38:10
◼
►
which would make that probably 2002.
00:38:13
◼
►
And there was the no-cat guys, and it was such a big deal.
00:38:15
◼
►
And I had like, I think an Orinoco card
00:38:17
◼
►
from my Wall Street laptop, you know, stuck out of the side
00:38:20
◼
►
to get the impossibly slow.
00:38:23
◼
►
And that seemed like, it seemed like a parlor trick.
00:38:24
◼
►
Like, why don't you just plug in ethernet, John?
00:38:28
◼
►
Like, why don't you just plug in ethernet for this thing?
00:38:29
◼
►
It's like, well, no, no, there's this new thing,
00:38:31
◼
►
and you can get your internet through the air.
00:38:33
◼
►
And my first experience with that had been on a Palm 7,
00:38:37
◼
►
I think would be my first really connected device, I think.
00:38:41
◼
►
I remember at Palm 7, it was huge.
00:38:43
◼
►
It had that big ass antenna.
00:38:44
◼
►
Yeah, I was about to say, is that
00:38:45
◼
►
the one with the big antenna, like a cigar diameter antenna
00:38:49
◼
►
coming out the side, or the top?
00:38:51
◼
►
And it was-- if memory serves, it was very costly, very slow,
00:38:56
◼
►
very limited.
00:38:57
◼
►
It was essentially like WAP-style functionality.
00:39:01
◼
►
But it was on your Palm Pilot.
00:39:03
◼
►
So it seemed amazing.
00:39:04
◼
►
It was a breakthrough, though, because laptops,
00:39:06
◼
►
in general were a premium computing device.
00:39:09
◼
►
They were far more expensive than the equivalent horsepower.
00:39:11
◼
►
It was a rich man's device.
00:39:13
◼
►
It was a rich man's device.
00:39:14
◼
►
But really, all it was effectively
00:39:16
◼
►
was a way to move your computing.
00:39:19
◼
►
And the big advantage to it was that the cloud was nowhere
00:39:24
◼
►
We didn't even have clouds.
00:39:26
◼
►
We didn't have clouds.
00:39:27
◼
►
So if you wanted your stuff in two different places,
00:39:31
◼
►
like work and home or, you know, work and a road trip,
00:39:36
◼
►
you needed to take the device with you.
00:39:39
◼
►
But you would just move from one, like, workstation
00:39:43
◼
►
setup desk to another where you already had things
00:39:47
◼
►
like an ethernet jack ready to go.
00:39:50
◼
►
Like you couldn't work anywhere.
00:39:51
◼
►
- Yeah, I remember using apps.
00:39:53
◼
►
It was a big deal when you first got these,
00:39:54
◼
►
like, fairly, they were nerdy,
00:39:56
◼
►
but it was like basically a GUI to like, R sync,
00:39:59
◼
►
where you could like put them on the same network
00:40:01
◼
►
and say, OK, these two folders, make sure they match.
00:40:03
◼
►
Like, that's pretty much the extent of it.
00:40:05
◼
►
But the idea that you could just move from the kitchen counter
00:40:11
◼
►
to the kitchen table and no longer be
00:40:13
◼
►
within arm's length of the wall where the ethernet port is
00:40:18
◼
►
was ludicrous, unless you were going
00:40:20
◼
►
to do something like just whatever
00:40:22
◼
►
you do with the computer when it's not connected to an internet.
00:40:26
◼
►
That seems so strange now.
00:40:32
◼
►
I think the voice stuff, it is.
00:40:34
◼
►
It's early days, but early days in a far less technical way
00:40:40
◼
►
than the computers, the text-based computers
00:40:42
◼
►
of our youth.
00:40:43
◼
►
But there's an analogy there, right?
00:40:45
◼
►
And obviously, the technology that's
00:40:47
◼
►
involved to just have the most rudimentary yo dingus, what's
00:40:52
◼
►
the weather, and have a thing that within however
00:40:56
◼
►
many seconds it is to recognize the speech
00:41:00
◼
►
and turn it into a command and then go out and get
00:41:02
◼
►
weather data for the location that you're at.
00:41:05
◼
►
It's obviously-- it would have taken like a TI 99 4A.
00:41:11
◼
►
Let's say you had a perfectly working program that could do
00:41:13
◼
►
that for that program.
00:41:14
◼
►
It would still be running right now.
00:41:16
◼
►
Like 37 years later, it's still not quite done yet.
00:41:22
◼
►
So there's a total difference in terms of the,
00:41:26
◼
►
just like, just pure bits per second of computation
00:41:31
◼
►
that's involved to get it.
00:41:32
◼
►
But there's some similarities in the crudeness
00:41:34
◼
►
of how these things work.
00:41:39
◼
►
In a way that like in a command line environment,
00:41:42
◼
►
you've gotta know the exact right command
00:41:44
◼
►
to delete a file, right?
00:41:46
◼
►
If you're on DOS, you have to type del,
00:41:48
◼
►
wasn't it del for delete, del space file name,
00:41:51
◼
►
On Unix it was "RM". You couldn't just type "Trash this file".
00:41:55
◼
►
You know. Right. Right. Right. And it's the same way with voice. You've got to know these,
00:41:59
◼
►
you know, you got to say it this way. Yeah, there are, there are, especially the thing is what you,
00:42:02
◼
►
um, such a common theme that comes up again and again are these trade-offs. They were just talking
00:42:07
◼
►
about this on ATP, like they always do. But, you know, the kind of trade-offs where, for example,
00:42:12
◼
►
if you want your AirPods to do more stuff, well, be careful what you ask for. Because they are,
00:42:16
◼
►
they're very streamlined right now. They're good at this thing that they do mostly. Yeah, I mean,
00:42:21
◼
►
And I wish—like, the Siri on AirPods is pretty slow and lame.
00:42:26
◼
►
Yeah, it's too slow.
00:42:27
◼
►
Like, I—yeah.
00:42:28
◼
►
It's too slow.
00:42:29
◼
►
I mean, and I guess we'll talk more about this, but I've been really—just to—you
00:42:33
◼
►
know, one thing I've been doing is—and I mention this on other programs, but I've
00:42:36
◼
►
been making myself from Friday evening through as much as possible of Saturday.
00:42:41
◼
►
I've been trying to set myself to using voice for everything that I can in lieu of
00:42:44
◼
►
other things.
00:42:45
◼
►
And if I can't, yeah, go use the computer or whatever.
00:42:47
◼
►
But try to be mindful for about one day a week of trying to figure out more stuff that
00:42:52
◼
►
I can and possibly should do with voice.
00:42:55
◼
►
And it has been very illuminating.
00:42:57
◼
►
Not least of which, you learn how much stuff is really not ready yet.
00:43:01
◼
►
But there's a surprising amount of stuff.
00:43:03
◼
►
The MacGuffin here is that by making yourself do this and being mindful about it just for
00:43:07
◼
►
this period of time, you remember to try stuff more.
00:43:12
◼
►
And if you try it and it doesn't work, you might say, "Well, then what's the incantation?"
00:43:17
◼
►
So like with, you know, as far as these trade-offs, so just to get that out of the way, that's
00:43:19
◼
►
one reason I'm so obsessed. But with Alexa... Oh, God, sorry. With the lady in a tube, I
00:43:28
◼
►
get an email every Friday from Amazon that's like, "Well, here's this new stuff that it
00:43:32
◼
►
does." And it's, you know, frequently it's stuff like, "Hey, ask about cricket," or whatever.
00:43:36
◼
►
But then other times, there is really legitimately pretty amazing stuff. To enable a lot of that,
00:43:41
◼
►
you've got to get into skills. And once you get into skills, now you're getting more into
00:43:44
◼
►
what you're describing as being with the command line. Because you go from just being able
00:43:48
◼
►
to issue a raw command to basically hailing a skill inside and then knowing what the mojo
00:43:53
◼
►
is inside of there. But honestly, it's not that difficult. This morning, I see via a
00:44:00
◼
►
friend Joe Steele, I see now you can, if you have Prime Now available in your area, you
00:44:06
◼
►
can order Prime Now over your lady in a tube. So like, I just talked to my tube this morning,
00:44:12
◼
►
I said, "Hey, Tube, reorder cat litter." It said, "Okay, here's this recent thing in your order for cat litter. Is that the one you want?"
00:44:19
◼
►
"Yeah." "Okay, that's not enough money. Do you want to add anything else to it?" "Yeah, sure, add that."
00:44:22
◼
►
So, I don't know. I guess I just feel like in order to sort of, I hate to say keep up, but to really have some kind of a foothold in where stuff is going,
00:44:33
◼
►
I can understand why people are reluctant to use this stuff for so, so many reasons,
00:44:37
◼
►
but I really kind of feel like if you want to be somewhat forward-looking and modern
00:44:44
◼
►
about what's happening, you really can't afford to totally overlook this and write
00:44:48
◼
►
it off as silly Buck Rogers stuff.
00:44:51
◼
►
And it's getting better at a noticeable clip, and it still is terrible.
00:45:00
◼
►
But when something in computing is terrible,
00:45:02
◼
►
but you can see it getting better if you just pay attention
00:45:05
◼
►
month to month, you know it's going to get good soon.
00:45:08
◼
►
And if you're going to miss out on all the--
00:45:10
◼
►
it's all the interesting stuff is going to happen between now
00:45:14
◼
►
Like once it's good and everybody takes it for granted,
00:45:16
◼
►
it's no longer interesting.
00:45:19
◼
►
Right, everything seems impossible or dumb
00:45:21
◼
►
until it's something you're using every day.
00:45:22
◼
►
And you go, well, of course.
00:45:23
◼
►
That's always been how it is.
00:45:25
◼
►
Did you notice last night-- I think,
00:45:26
◼
►
were you on that thread last night where somebody mentioned
00:45:28
◼
►
out of nowhere. Was it Michael? Yeah, I think it was Michael Heilman, our friend of the show,
00:45:33
◼
►
Michael Heilman. Well, and he points something out that, like, is definitely, like, a known problem
00:45:38
◼
►
that has suddenly been fixed. Other people are like, "No, it's always been this way." But in my
00:45:42
◼
►
house, you guys, in my house, if you say, "Hey, dingus," like, five different things light up.
00:45:50
◼
►
Right. So, if I say, "Hey, dingus," here's the thing that I say most to a dingus all the time,
00:45:55
◼
►
"Hey, Dingus, remind me to take out the pasta in eight minutes."
00:45:58
◼
►
And suddenly, there's all these Scottish ladies talking all at the same time,
00:46:03
◼
►
like trying to remind me about pasta. Apparently, they just pulled an Amazon Echo,
00:46:07
◼
►
and they seem to be using what, proximity? Because I tested it last night, and it works in a way.
00:46:14
◼
►
It's not doing firing multiple devices anymore. It fires multiple devices, because you see a
00:46:19
◼
►
blink on the screen. But only one says, "I got it," and handles it.
00:46:22
◼
►
That's exactly right. So now finally my stupid watch is like slightly usable
00:46:27
◼
►
because I'll be two rooms away from any other iOS device screaming into my watch
00:46:31
◼
►
to please hear me. It never hears me. And in the other room, you know, you're like,
00:46:35
◼
►
"The weather in San Francisco is like ahhhhh!"
00:46:38
◼
►
But that's that kind of advancement. I mean, that sounds subtle, sounds dumb, but like
00:46:42
◼
►
that kind of stuff, you're right, it's happening. Faster dictation continues to be
00:46:47
◼
►
getting so much better. I used to never send texts that way.
00:46:51
◼
►
I mean, once you learn the incantation of, "Hey, dingus," and tell John Gruber to kiss
00:46:57
◼
►
Like, once you learn the incantation of how to do that, it really does kind of just work.
00:47:01
◼
►
I don't understand how this is working, though.
00:47:04
◼
►
Chase Gallagher jumped into the Twitter thread and said, "It's not just iCloud connected.
00:47:09
◼
►
His work phone and personal phone are not linked in any way, and only one will trigger."
00:47:14
◼
►
I don't understand how that's working.
00:47:18
◼
►
Like I should try with I haven't experimented with this because this is like you said it is something that Apple obviously improved
00:47:24
◼
►
But yeah, it's got it has to have been I'm gonna say on the outside within the last two weeks
00:47:29
◼
►
I'm feeling like within the last few days
00:47:30
◼
►
this is very new like I should put like like
00:47:34
◼
►
Me and my wife's iPhones right next to each other and see how this works and how it decides which one to use
00:47:39
◼
►
Fast you have multiple. Do you have multiple Amazon dinguses? No, just one Amazon dingus
00:47:44
◼
►
Well, we are I have to admit a multiple dingus house and and Amazon's had this for I don't know month or more
00:47:49
◼
►
And it really it works
00:47:53
◼
►
But well, yeah meaning like if I'm in earshot of three different
00:47:58
◼
►
ladies in a tube I
00:48:00
◼
►
Can see the ring the blue ring fires off, you know
00:48:03
◼
►
There's a cool thing where you can see where it thinks the voice is coming from. So yes, so that thing fires off
00:48:07
◼
►
You know, Jonas pointed that out to me and then once I only figured this out like two months ago
00:48:12
◼
►
That it's saying, "Here's where I think the voice is. It's pointing at you."
00:48:15
◼
►
But I could see two or three different dinguses fire off.
00:48:18
◼
►
It's kind of uneven which one ends up doing the execution, but it doesn't—it will not execute more than one at a time.
00:48:27
◼
►
But I don't know. This is something—again, they talked about this on ATP recently, and I was totally in Syracuse's corner of saying, like,
00:48:35
◼
►
"It's hard to describe this until you really do start using it. It's very, very abstract until you kind of set yourself to the task of doing this."
00:48:42
◼
►
is you become less self-conscious about it.
00:48:45
◼
►
You try more things.
00:48:46
◼
►
You do more stuff.
00:48:47
◼
►
And so I'm forever just walking around adding things
00:48:50
◼
►
to a shopping list to where now I
00:48:51
◼
►
feel like a monster having to sit down and type that.
00:48:53
◼
►
It feels really silly.
00:48:54
◼
►
And I use IFTTT to sync up my Amazon lists with my reminders.
00:48:59
◼
►
So do you do that?
00:49:01
◼
►
It's pretty cool.
00:49:02
◼
►
You just go to IFTTT, and you basically
00:49:03
◼
►
say, when a new item is added to my Amazon shopping list,
00:49:07
◼
►
add that to this reminders list.
00:49:10
◼
►
When a new thing--
00:49:11
◼
►
the iOS reminders app or not? The Apple reminders app. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's actually pretty
00:49:17
◼
►
powerful. So that, and then if you're a super nerd, you know, you don't have to be like Federico
00:49:22
◼
►
Vittucci level nerd, but you can also do stuff like then say like you can hook that up with,
00:49:26
◼
►
for example, OmniFocus. So when you add something to that list, the next time you open OmniFocus,
00:49:31
◼
►
it sucks it out of that list or, you know, Todoist or whatever you like to use. But yeah,
00:49:36
◼
►
I don't know. I don't know. I think it's... I have this theory about this that I have yet to prove,
00:49:44
◼
►
and I haven't given it that much thought. But somebody had written in to Back to Work to ask
00:49:48
◼
►
us about like, "Oh God, is this the future? Is the future going to be like people in my office
00:49:52
◼
►
talking into Excel?" And I was like, "Eh, you know, I kind of don't think it is because I kind
00:49:57
◼
►
of feel like there's these parts to the voice thing that you don't get if all you see is
00:50:02
◼
►
as somebody being a dingus and talking into the air.
00:50:05
◼
►
The voice is one part.
00:50:06
◼
►
The voice, yeah, that's the parlor trick.
00:50:08
◼
►
But what's behind the voice, right?
00:50:10
◼
►
It's that, I don't know what you want to call it,
00:50:13
◼
►
the functionality, the scripting,
00:50:15
◼
►
in some cases the AI or machine learning, whatever it is,
00:50:18
◼
►
but that middle layer of what it does with what it heard,
00:50:20
◼
►
if it heard it well, what it does with that,
00:50:22
◼
►
that's maybe the important part.
00:50:24
◼
►
And then the third part is the ubiquity.
00:50:26
◼
►
So I mean, I have this idea that I'm kind of
00:50:29
◼
►
bubbling around, which is that I wonder if voice
00:50:32
◼
►
ends up historically being the least important part of that stack.
00:50:35
◼
►
Voice is the parlor trick that's fun to use, but I think that you,
00:50:39
◼
►
the idea of that kind of ubiquitous availability for,
00:50:44
◼
►
do you follow where I'm going with this?
00:50:45
◼
►
Like I don't think you're going to have to talk into Excel.
00:50:48
◼
►
I think that there's going to be more and more bespoke remote devices that do
00:50:52
◼
►
your bidding without you needing to know how to do RM-R.
00:50:55
◼
►
All right, hold that thought, hold that thought.
00:50:57
◼
►
Cause I want to keep going with this, but I want to, I got to break in here.
00:51:00
◼
►
I told you about buying eyeglasses online.
00:51:02
◼
►
Oh, come on.
00:51:04
◼
►
It's our friend Warby Parker.
00:51:05
◼
►
They make buying eyeglasses online easy and risk-free.
00:51:08
◼
►
They believe glasses should be viewed as a fashion accessory,
00:51:11
◼
►
just like a bag, shoe, necktie, hat.
00:51:14
◼
►
I mean, how many pairs of shoes do you have?
00:51:16
◼
►
Do you have one pair of shoes?
00:51:17
◼
►
Why in the world would you only have one pair of glasses?
00:51:19
◼
►
Well, the reason some people would,
00:51:20
◼
►
because they cost hundreds of dollars.
00:51:22
◼
►
Well, guess what?
00:51:22
◼
►
Warby Parker's glasses start at just $95,
00:51:27
◼
►
including the prescription lenses.
00:51:29
◼
►
They don't give you a crazy upsell on anti glare and anti scratch.
00:51:34
◼
►
They give you the anti glare and the anti scratch by default,
00:51:37
◼
►
because who doesn't want them?
00:51:38
◼
►
No upsell on that crap.
00:51:40
◼
►
And for every pair of glasses you buy, they send a pair
00:51:44
◼
►
to someone in need around the world.
00:51:46
◼
►
People who've got need eyeglasses, but they're there, you know,
00:51:49
◼
►
can't afford them. Warby Parker takes care of them.
00:51:52
◼
►
It's a free try at home program.
00:51:57
◼
►
You go to their website.
00:51:57
◼
►
They've got, I don't know, at least 100 pairs of glasses,
00:52:00
◼
►
probably more, tons of them, any style you can imagine.
00:52:05
◼
►
You will pick up to five that you like.
00:52:07
◼
►
They send them to you for free with like dummy lenses in them.
00:52:10
◼
►
And you can put them on, see what
00:52:12
◼
►
they look like on your face.
00:52:14
◼
►
No obligation to buy.
00:52:15
◼
►
You haven't given them any money yet.
00:52:17
◼
►
It ships for free.
00:52:17
◼
►
They give you the label to send it back.
00:52:19
◼
►
If you'd like one or more of the ones, you just say, OK, here.
00:52:23
◼
►
I like this one.
00:52:24
◼
►
I like this one.
00:52:25
◼
►
You give them your prescription info.
00:52:26
◼
►
They've got like a little trick to measure like the distance between your eyes.
00:52:30
◼
►
You hold like a standard credit card up in front of a webcam or something like that.
00:52:33
◼
►
And they can measure and because you know, you, there's little tricks like that to get the glasses to be just right.
00:52:39
◼
►
Cause they got to know how far apart your pupils are.
00:52:40
◼
►
They do it right there with a camera.
00:52:42
◼
►
You don't go to a store, you don't waste any time on stuff like that.
00:52:45
◼
►
Totally free to try these things at home.
00:52:48
◼
►
You pick the ones you like and they're, they started just 95 bucks and then they show up in like a couple of days.
00:52:54
◼
►
It's a great system.
00:52:56
◼
►
They've got sunglasses.
00:52:57
◼
►
You can get prescription sunglasses.
00:52:59
◼
►
They come with polarized lenses, et cetera, et cetera,
00:53:02
◼
►
UV protection.
00:53:04
◼
►
And remember, every single pair that you buy
00:53:07
◼
►
includes a pair of glasses that they
00:53:10
◼
►
distribute to people in need.
00:53:12
◼
►
Go to warbyparker.com/the-talk-show,
00:53:16
◼
►
warbyparker.com/the-talk-show, and you'll
00:53:20
◼
►
know you came from the show.
00:53:22
◼
►
Great stuff.
00:53:23
◼
►
I think the sunglasses are a good gateway drug.
00:53:25
◼
►
If you're not ready to let go of your artisanal small batch glasses that you bought,
00:53:30
◼
►
your tiny little Helvetica glasses,
00:53:31
◼
►
start with sunglasses because if you need glasses,
00:53:35
◼
►
you could really benefit from prescription sunglasses.
00:53:37
◼
►
These guys have gotten into retail now too.
00:53:39
◼
►
They have a retail shop here that just opened here in Philly a couple of weeks ago,
00:53:43
◼
►
right down the street from the Apple Store,
00:53:45
◼
►
like the premium retail district.
00:53:49
◼
►
I think maybe arguably,
00:53:51
◼
►
literally within a stone's throw of the Apple Store,
00:53:53
◼
►
there's a Warby Parker you can go into.
00:53:55
◼
►
I've walked by, but I think I'm in.
00:53:57
◼
►
- You think they'd ever get into toilets?
00:53:58
◼
►
They send you four or five toilets to your house,
00:54:00
◼
►
you try 'em out, you send back the ones you don't want?
00:54:01
◼
►
You can't really do that? - They might.
00:54:03
◼
►
That might be why they got the retail space,
00:54:04
◼
►
you know what I mean?
00:54:05
◼
►
So you can go in there and have a seat.
00:54:08
◼
►
- Try it out for yourself.
00:54:10
◼
►
- You know, like people used to,
00:54:11
◼
►
people used to go to the Apple store to check their email.
00:54:14
◼
►
Right? - Yeah.
00:54:14
◼
►
- Maybe you go in there to test out the merchandise.
00:54:17
◼
►
- Here's my theory on the voice.
00:54:19
◼
►
Computers have conquered tasks that the interfaces
00:54:24
◼
►
that have been available have been acceptable to,
00:54:29
◼
►
So we did spreadsheets and word processing first
00:54:32
◼
►
because at the very earliest years of computing,
00:54:35
◼
►
the only thing we really had were,
00:54:37
◼
►
literally we only had text-based displays
00:54:39
◼
►
and we had keyboards and those are two things
00:54:42
◼
►
that with nothing but a text-based display and a keyboard,
00:54:46
◼
►
they were actually way better than what came before it.
00:54:49
◼
►
Right, that you could do things like you put all these
00:54:51
◼
►
numbers into your spreadsheet and get an answer
00:54:54
◼
►
for what your budget would be, and then somebody says,
00:54:57
◼
►
well, what if instead of 10% growth,
00:54:59
◼
►
we only have 5% growth?
00:55:01
◼
►
What happens?
00:55:02
◼
►
All of a sudden--
00:55:03
◼
►
You start with an electronic analog for something
00:55:05
◼
►
in the physical world, but with this added functionality.
00:55:08
◼
►
What computers have always been good at is--
00:55:10
◼
►
when they take off-- is doing things that used to be mundane
00:55:14
◼
►
and making them-- saving us tons of time.
00:55:17
◼
►
And you have that-- even a relatively simple spreadsheet.
00:55:20
◼
►
In pre-spreadsheet days, if somebody said,
00:55:22
◼
►
let's say what happens if we only have 5% growth
00:55:25
◼
►
instead of 10% growth, but that number percolates down
00:55:28
◼
►
to 20 different things beneath it.
00:55:30
◼
►
It takes two seconds in a spreadsheet to make that change,
00:55:34
◼
►
and it would take a couple of minutes of math,
00:55:36
◼
►
error-prone, hand arithmetic, you know, previously.
00:55:40
◼
►
Word processing, word processing let people
00:55:42
◼
►
who were writing documents make changes
00:55:44
◼
►
without bringing white out and making a mess of the paper.
00:55:49
◼
►
And significant changes, like moving paragraphs around
00:55:52
◼
►
deleting entire chunks without retyping. I would probably—I think there's a good
00:55:58
◼
►
chance that if I had been born 50 years earlier, I still would have been a writer of some sort.
00:56:02
◼
►
But I would have been an angry writer, because I think I always would be angry at the rewriting.
00:56:08
◼
►
In high school, I used to have to do it. I had a typewriter in high school. I didn't have a computer.
00:56:12
◼
►
There was a—one of the history teachers in my college was infamous for always—she's
00:56:18
◼
►
very tough reader, very tough critic, tough teacher. And she would invariably send back
00:56:22
◼
►
people's papers—everybody's got their paper sent back, and you had to make changes on it. And she
00:56:27
◼
►
would, you know, mark it up, and you'd have to retype any page that had more than three corrections
00:56:31
◼
►
on it. You would have to redo the page. So you've got to retype that page. And if that was a big
00:56:35
◼
►
correction, guess what? You're retyping at least two pages. Yeah, because it would overflow, right?
00:56:39
◼
►
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, and that's a radical change, if you really think about it. I know
00:56:43
◼
►
that there's youngsters out there who've never had to do this, and you think, "Oh, that sounds bad."
00:56:46
◼
►
But it was in practice, it was worse than you're imagining.
00:56:50
◼
►
Because it really just felt like busywork.
00:56:52
◼
►
And that's what computers have been good at.
00:56:54
◼
►
But I feel like for things like Excel,
00:56:57
◼
►
there's no need for voice for that.
00:56:58
◼
►
The existing input methods are better.
00:57:00
◼
►
I think the voice stuff--
00:57:01
◼
►
Totally agree.
00:57:03
◼
►
The voice stuff is entirely for stuff
00:57:05
◼
►
where voice is a better interface than keyboard typing
00:57:12
◼
►
or something like that.
00:57:15
◼
►
Well, my response to that listener,
00:57:17
◼
►
I did one of those turns out Malcolm Gladwell things,
00:57:19
◼
►
because I was like, well, first of all,
00:57:21
◼
►
I don't think that is the best way to interact.
00:57:23
◼
►
But the bigger question, now that I got my futurist hat on,
00:57:25
◼
►
the bigger question is how many of us
00:57:27
◼
►
will have jobs where we use Excel in 20 years?
00:57:29
◼
►
Like, if you're really thinking about this stuff,
00:57:32
◼
►
not that I'm any scholar on this,
00:57:34
◼
►
but let's think bigger than where we are now.
00:57:36
◼
►
We've got to quit thinking about things as slight iterations
00:57:40
◼
►
on what we're willing to admit has changed
00:57:41
◼
►
about what we understand, and start looking instead at,
00:57:44
◼
►
what is the trend line for this?
00:57:46
◼
►
And where does that end up amidst all these other kinds
00:57:50
◼
►
But so how much do you use voice day to day now?
00:57:56
◼
►
I use it frequently, but I use it
00:57:57
◼
►
for the same handful of things over and over and over
00:58:00
◼
►
and over again.
00:58:01
◼
►
Are you a dictator?
00:58:03
◼
►
I do dictate.
00:58:05
◼
►
So I think that should count.
00:58:07
◼
►
So I definitely dictate like iMessages.
00:58:13
◼
►
I absolutely do, because I can dictate faster than I can type.
00:58:17
◼
►
And it's accurate.
00:58:18
◼
►
If you're typing more than a sentence,
00:58:19
◼
►
if you're typing more than two sentences,
00:58:21
◼
►
just put a clock on it.
00:58:22
◼
►
It'll blow your mind.
00:58:23
◼
►
Even accounting for the time to fix small errors,
00:58:26
◼
►
it's so much faster than typing.
00:58:28
◼
►
And for the most part, the people who I'm texting,
00:58:32
◼
►
it's, again, a handful of people.
00:58:34
◼
►
It's either my wife, my son, or a close personal friend.
00:58:41
◼
►
And if it makes a homonym error,
00:58:46
◼
►
I often will just let it slide because I think it's funny.
00:58:50
◼
►
If I say it's, I don't know,
00:58:52
◼
►
that the produce selection is a real horror show,
00:58:56
◼
►
and it comes out-- - It comes out with horror.
00:58:59
◼
►
- Or a Horace show, or something like that.
00:59:03
◼
►
I'll let it go. - The truth is,
00:59:04
◼
►
like on my iPad, I've got the small iPad Pro,
00:59:08
◼
►
And the truth is, dictation on there, especially on Wi-Fi,
00:59:13
◼
►
for certain kinds of things, like paragraph link things--
00:59:16
◼
►
I would challenge people to actually try this,
00:59:18
◼
►
because here's the thing for me.
00:59:19
◼
►
If I'm laying in bed like an animal typing with my thumbs,
00:59:22
◼
►
I will very frequently be doing stuff like hitting the comma
00:59:24
◼
►
and breaking this word in half for some dumb reason.
00:59:27
◼
►
Or I meant to hit A and I hit capital.
00:59:30
◼
►
Like there's these same three or four typing mistakes I make constantly
00:59:35
◼
►
And you don't get that.
00:59:36
◼
►
Instead, you get funny homonyms.
00:59:38
◼
►
But so dictation, do you do a lot of little tasks?
00:59:41
◼
►
Do you do reminders?
00:59:42
◼
►
Do you do setting meetings and stuff like that?
00:59:44
◼
►
No, not for calendar, but I don't have a lot of meetings.
00:59:47
◼
►
But I'll do reminders.
00:59:48
◼
►
I'll say add such and such to my shopping list.
00:59:53
◼
►
I feel like with iOS voice functionality,
00:59:59
◼
►
I'm trying to avoid triggering things.
01:00:01
◼
►
I think that's the gateway drug.
01:00:03
◼
►
is like, hey, Dingus, remind me to bring up the laundry when
01:00:09
◼
►
I arrive at the house in two hours.
01:00:12
◼
►
Because there's a lot to that.
01:00:13
◼
►
I mean, you do get a reminder.
01:00:14
◼
►
It's on your reminder list.
01:00:15
◼
►
That's good by itself.
01:00:17
◼
►
It'll go off in two hours no matter what.
01:00:19
◼
►
But if you're in the geofenced area earlier,
01:00:22
◼
►
it goes off as well.
01:00:23
◼
►
I don't know how many people know that.
01:00:24
◼
►
And it's really as simple as saying that thing.
01:00:26
◼
►
If you want to get started with your iPhone in particular,
01:00:29
◼
►
I think that's a pretty good place to start.
01:00:31
◼
►
great for controlling music on AirPods, I've got to say, but a good way to, you
01:00:35
◼
►
know, get you started with what it does. Well, I think it would be if the latency were solved.
01:00:40
◼
►
It's too much of a pause between when you double-tap the
01:00:44
◼
►
AirPod and when the assistant kicks in. Yeah, my fantasy for the AirPods is it
01:00:51
◼
►
gets something like a—I know this is impossible at this point—but that on one
01:00:55
◼
►
side there's something like—I know this sounds crazy—but there's something like a
01:01:01
◼
►
and possibly small touchpad that's, you know, like the size of, you know, half a centimeter.
01:01:08
◼
►
But something that you could press on that you could tap or push and that has a little
01:01:12
◼
►
bit of slide ability.
01:01:14
◼
►
So you could, like, for example, I know that's nuts, but it would be pretty cool if you could
01:01:17
◼
►
hit that dingus, tap it twice, you get Siri, you hit it once, for example, and if you slide
01:01:23
◼
►
backwards or forwards, it would be volume.
01:01:25
◼
►
Like something like that would be dynamite, but probably out of scope at that price.
01:01:30
◼
►
I love my AirPods.
01:01:32
◼
►
I really do.
01:01:32
◼
►
I rave about it.
01:01:33
◼
►
It's my favorite new Apple thing in a long time.
01:01:36
◼
►
It's my favorite new--
01:01:37
◼
►
- I like them so much more than I expected.
01:01:39
◼
►
I expected to like them, but I actually love them.
01:01:43
◼
►
But I fully acknowledge that part and parcel of using them
01:01:46
◼
►
is the fact that there are certain things
01:01:47
◼
►
that the old $10 wired,
01:01:50
◼
►
well, I know Apple sold them for $29,
01:01:52
◼
►
but the old, the old, the old,
01:01:53
◼
►
included in the box wired ones were way better at.
01:01:57
◼
►
like double clicking to go to the next track.
01:02:04
◼
►
- But it's a little bit like we're back to the truck
01:02:05
◼
►
and the car in some ways though,
01:02:06
◼
►
or for that matter voice,
01:02:08
◼
►
where like this will not make sense until you use it.
01:02:09
◼
►
And when you use it, you will have no problem dithering
01:02:13
◼
►
about when other headphones are a better choice.
01:02:16
◼
►
It's not, I mean, you're not, you know,
01:02:18
◼
►
just the wireless thing is dynamite.
01:02:20
◼
►
If I'm just gonna do dishes
01:02:21
◼
►
and just wanna like have a little break and do dishes
01:02:24
◼
►
and listen to a podcast,
01:02:25
◼
►
'cause I mean, what's gonna happen?
01:02:26
◼
►
I mean, the worst I have to do, I reach down,
01:02:28
◼
►
I grab my pocket and I hit the volume on my pocket
01:02:30
◼
►
to bring it up or down.
01:02:32
◼
►
But if you're gonna be traveling for a long time,
01:02:35
◼
►
well, you know, also turns out, they do,
01:02:37
◼
►
if you include the time of the battery pack,
01:02:40
◼
►
little Tic Tac holder,
01:02:42
◼
►
like you get pretty good battery out of these things.
01:02:44
◼
►
It's gonna be fun.
01:02:46
◼
►
There's not that many occasions
01:02:47
◼
►
when you listen to these for five hours.
01:02:48
◼
►
- I have never run out. - No, me neither.
01:02:50
◼
►
I don't think I've ever gotten below 80%.
01:02:51
◼
►
- I don't know, but I've gotten close,
01:02:54
◼
►
or not even close, but I've gotten to the point
01:02:56
◼
►
I get like a warning or something or I don't know I somehow notice and I just
01:03:00
◼
►
Absent-minded leads put the air pods case on in a lightning cable and it's fixed
01:03:06
◼
►
I don't know the battery life is amazing on them and I have to say I had the
01:03:10
◼
►
$299 Beats ones
01:03:12
◼
►
Forget what they were called but they're the ones with the little you know
01:03:16
◼
►
Under the chin cable and I liked them enough that they were my main headphones for I don't know eight nine months or something like that
01:03:23
◼
►
But they were I was constantly running out of battery life on them surprise at surprise really moments
01:03:29
◼
►
Yeah, like that case that case is brilliant. Like I hate and I love your tip your little YouTube video
01:03:33
◼
►
I use your tip all the time for getting them out. Yeah, that's the way to do it
01:03:37
◼
►
You should tell people is a really good. I should I'll put it in the show notes
01:03:40
◼
►
Sure, you will have to plug in your Ethernet right after plugging it
01:03:46
◼
►
Let me take another break here and thank what did I say? I was gonna put in the show notes my video
01:03:51
◼
►
- Oh yeah, your Stanley Kubrick earbud video.
01:03:53
◼
►
- Video, AirPod video.
01:03:55
◼
►
All right, there it is, in the show notes.
01:03:57
◼
►
I wanna take a break though.
01:03:58
◼
►
I gotta thank another great sponsor.
01:03:59
◼
►
I have their product.
01:04:02
◼
►
I think they sent it to me.
01:04:04
◼
►
I don't think I paid for it.
01:04:06
◼
►
I don't even remember, but I would buy it.
01:04:08
◼
►
And in fact, I'm going to buy more.
01:04:10
◼
►
It is a fantastic product.
01:04:14
◼
►
It is a suitcase from a company called Away.
01:04:16
◼
►
I've got the overhead one.
01:04:19
◼
►
It's simply a great suitcase.
01:04:23
◼
►
It is made with premium German polycarbonate.
01:04:27
◼
►
It looks like you could throw it off the top of a building
01:04:30
◼
►
and it would be fine.
01:04:31
◼
►
It has four wheels.
01:04:32
◼
►
The wheels are almost too good.
01:04:35
◼
►
There's a terminal in the Philadelphia airport
01:04:37
◼
►
where to get to the gates that I always have to go to.
01:04:40
◼
►
For whatever reason, every time I fly,
01:04:42
◼
►
my gate at every airport I go to in North America
01:04:45
◼
►
is always at the end of the terminal.
01:04:47
◼
►
I never ever, ever get one of those gates near the hub.
01:04:51
◼
►
Always at the end.
01:04:52
◼
►
And at Philly Terminal C, there's a downhill slope.
01:04:56
◼
►
Like once you get past like gate C20 and it's downhill.
01:05:02
◼
►
The wheels are so good on the away suitcase
01:05:04
◼
►
that it like the thing wants to run away from you.
01:05:07
◼
►
It's got four 360 degree spinner wheels.
01:05:10
◼
►
They are super smooth, great wheels.
01:05:12
◼
►
A TSA approved combination lock
01:05:14
◼
►
built onto the top to prevent theft.
01:05:16
◼
►
Is that great?
01:05:17
◼
►
Are these TSA, you know, it's the best you can do though.
01:05:20
◼
►
It's better than nothing, right?
01:05:21
◼
►
It's, you know.
01:05:22
◼
►
- It's nice that it's built in.
01:05:24
◼
►
And I've got one of these and I love it.
01:05:25
◼
►
It's built in so you don't have to do that thing
01:05:27
◼
►
that I always do, which is, oh great, I've got a lock
01:05:29
◼
►
and I lost the case.
01:05:30
◼
►
And all of my luggage has a lock on it that I can't use.
01:05:33
◼
►
And then, you know, you just put your combination
01:05:34
◼
►
in your one password or whatever you use
01:05:37
◼
►
and you know, you won't forget it.
01:05:39
◼
►
But here's the kicker.
01:05:41
◼
►
The kicker is that they build in--
01:05:43
◼
►
- All that by itself, by itself.
01:05:44
◼
►
You got yourself a great suitcase.
01:05:45
◼
►
- It's a great suitcase.
01:05:46
◼
►
And the prices are great.
01:05:47
◼
►
Right there, the prices are great.
01:05:49
◼
►
But here's the thing.
01:05:50
◼
►
They built into the top of the case a really--
01:05:55
◼
►
I forget how many mega amps, but a big battery.
01:05:58
◼
►
And there's two USB ports.
01:06:00
◼
►
One of them is the five watt for a phone,
01:06:05
◼
►
and the other one is like a 15 watt or something
01:06:07
◼
►
like that for iPads or whatever or anything
01:06:10
◼
►
that can charge faster.
01:06:11
◼
►
And so all you need then to charge your phone
01:06:14
◼
►
when you're at the airport.
01:06:15
◼
►
You don't have to go around hunting for a seat at the airport near a socket.
01:06:21
◼
►
Because guess what? You know they're already taken. They're taken.
01:06:24
◼
►
Because there's like one... Most North American airports have two wall sockets in the entire airport.
01:06:31
◼
►
So you just make, you know, charge your suitcase.
01:06:35
◼
►
Yeah, when you get back to your room, so you run off your suitcase, you get back to your room,
01:06:39
◼
►
and when you go to sleep at night, you charge your suitcase like a gentleman.
01:06:41
◼
►
It has so much power that like you could charge your suitcase before you go on your trip.
01:06:45
◼
►
charge your phone at the airport, go somewhere on the way back, plug the USB in again, and it still
01:06:50
◼
►
has a charge to charge up your phone while you're sitting there waiting for your flight.
01:06:53
◼
►
I tested it and gave up after three charges of an iPhone.
01:06:57
◼
►
Yeah, no, I mean it's got at least, I would say very safely at least two. I don't want to
01:07:03
◼
►
oversell this because I don't have the spec in front of me, but you will definitely be able to
01:07:06
◼
►
charge up your stuff on the road. It's a big ass battery. It's really nice.
01:07:09
◼
►
Or like two of you could, like you and a friend or a spouse or a child, whatever.
01:07:12
◼
►
I like having portable battery chargers when I travel.
01:07:15
◼
►
But I like-- there's a balancing act with a real portable
01:07:18
◼
►
charger where you want one that's small enough
01:07:20
◼
►
that you put it in your pocket.
01:07:21
◼
►
It doesn't look like you've got a Castanza wallet.
01:07:23
◼
►
But on the other hand, the ones that are kind of slim
01:07:25
◼
►
don't really-- they give you an extra 50% on your battery.
01:07:29
◼
►
A suitcase, even a small overhead suitcase,
01:07:32
◼
►
plenty of space for a battery that will charge your stuff.
01:07:34
◼
►
It is a brilliant idea.
01:07:36
◼
►
It is really great.
01:07:37
◼
►
And the prices are super great.
01:07:39
◼
►
They have great prices because they sell direct.
01:07:42
◼
►
So here's where you go.
01:07:43
◼
►
Go to awaytravel.com.
01:07:44
◼
►
awaytravel.com/talkshow.
01:07:48
◼
►
No "the," just "talk show."
01:07:50
◼
►
And remember that promo code, "talk show," when you check out.
01:07:52
◼
►
And guess what?
01:07:53
◼
►
You'll save an extra $20 off your first order.
01:07:56
◼
►
$20 right in your pocket for a great suitcase
01:07:59
◼
►
with great stuff inside.
01:08:01
◼
►
It's well-organized, super rugged, great wheels.
01:08:05
◼
►
But the battery charger is the killer feature.
01:08:08
◼
►
My thanks to AwayTravel.
01:08:11
◼
►
Good product.
01:08:13
◼
►
Here's the thing.
01:08:14
◼
►
I keep saying this.
01:08:14
◼
►
If you have a voice assistant and you hired somebody,
01:08:17
◼
►
you hired a real live person, a kid right out of college,
01:08:23
◼
►
to just follow you around and do stuff for you,
01:08:27
◼
►
and you could say things like-- let's say
01:08:29
◼
►
that the kid's name is Dingus.
01:08:30
◼
►
You'd say, hey, Dingus, what's the score of the North Carolina
01:08:35
◼
►
And then Dingus would look it up on a phone or whatever
01:08:39
◼
►
and then tell you the score of the game.
01:08:41
◼
►
Well, that's already slower.
01:08:43
◼
►
The computers are better at that sort of stuff
01:08:46
◼
►
than having a person.
01:08:48
◼
►
But the flip side is that the computers will make errors
01:08:52
◼
►
that no human being-- even if you hired a drunk,
01:08:57
◼
►
no human assistant would ever make
01:08:59
◼
►
some of the boneheaded errors that the computer assistants
01:09:07
◼
►
So for example, I have two contacts named Amy.
01:09:12
◼
►
One of them is my wife, and I text her probably more
01:09:15
◼
►
than every other person in the world combined.
01:09:18
◼
►
And then there's a PR person who works
01:09:20
◼
►
at a technology company who I've had contact
01:09:22
◼
►
with maybe five times in years.
01:09:25
◼
►
And sometimes when I say, hey, Dingus, text Amy,
01:09:29
◼
►
blah, blah, blah, usually it just knows
01:09:32
◼
►
to send it to my wife.
01:09:33
◼
►
But every once in a while, it'll say, which Amy?
01:09:37
◼
►
But you really don't want to get that wrong.
01:09:40
◼
►
No, you don't. You don't want to get it wrong.
01:09:43
◼
►
And so I understand being careful, and I'd rather have the...
01:09:49
◼
►
But it's just your point partly being like, "Why hasn't that figured this out yet?"
01:09:53
◼
►
Well, it's not "Why hasn't it?" I understand that it's a hard problem to figure out.
01:09:57
◼
►
My point, though, is more that the bar is set at the common sense of a human being.
01:10:03
◼
►
And that's, right?
01:10:05
◼
►
We need to judge these things by that bar of common sense.
01:10:09
◼
►
That if I had a human assistant and said,
01:10:12
◼
►
tell Amy I'm going to be late,
01:10:15
◼
►
and I'll let her know soon how late I'll be,
01:10:18
◼
►
there's a 0% chance that that assistant
01:10:20
◼
►
isn't gonna know exactly who I'm talking about.
01:10:23
◼
►
- That's a good point.
01:10:25
◼
►
- Like a worst assistant I could hire,
01:10:26
◼
►
someone who I'm like, hey, dingus,
01:10:29
◼
►
tell yourself you're fired on Friday.
01:10:32
◼
►
It just randomly picks the first Amy, knowing that your wife is named Amy.
01:10:35
◼
►
It just randomly picks the first Amy it finds in the Rolodex.
01:10:38
◼
►
Even an assistant who I'm so upset with their performance that I'm about--
01:10:42
◼
►
I'm looking to replace them or, you know, let them go, is gonna get that right.
01:10:47
◼
►
Right. This is not-- your point is very well taken. Just for what it's
01:10:53
◼
►
worth practically to be well actually, Guy, two ways I get around that
01:10:59
◼
►
are by naming relationships.
01:11:02
◼
►
And so you could say, hey, Dingus, Amy Jane Gruber
01:11:06
◼
►
is my wife, as you know.
01:11:07
◼
►
Dingus knows that.
01:11:09
◼
►
And I can say, text my wife that.
01:11:12
◼
►
But it never comes out naturally.
01:11:14
◼
►
I feel like part of the interaction--
01:11:16
◼
►
Part of the interaction with these things
01:11:18
◼
►
is that I think that they work best
01:11:22
◼
►
or feel like they work best.
01:11:24
◼
►
Maybe the stopwatch would tell you there's no difference.
01:11:26
◼
►
But the cognitive load is so much less
01:11:28
◼
►
if you don't really have to think about it in a formal,
01:11:33
◼
►
how do I officially want to do this?
01:11:35
◼
►
If I just say what's on the top of my head,
01:11:37
◼
►
it always comes out as Amy.
01:11:39
◼
►
It never comes out as my wife.
01:11:41
◼
►
- Right, but the frustrating part, I mean--
01:11:43
◼
►
- I would never call her my wife in a normal--
01:11:45
◼
►
- My wife, yeah.
01:11:47
◼
►
Yeah, I sound like Borat.
01:11:48
◼
►
But you're like, but it's almost 80% of the way there,
01:11:50
◼
►
and that it can do that.
01:11:51
◼
►
The part that is frustrating to me,
01:11:53
◼
►
and yeah, I know it's a hard problem.
01:11:54
◼
►
It is frustrating to me, though, that,
01:11:56
◼
►
Like for example, when it first mishears you, sometimes it will say like, "Okay, I didn't
01:12:02
◼
►
understand that name.
01:12:03
◼
►
Can you pronounce that for me?"
01:12:04
◼
►
And it's like, "Wow, that's really interesting."
01:12:06
◼
►
You suddenly get really smart sometimes, and now you want to learn how something is
01:12:10
◼
►
That's really cool.
01:12:11
◼
►
But then in other times, like if you have exactly two people with the name Amy in there,
01:12:14
◼
►
it is amazing how much of the time it'll say which Amy do you want to send it to.
01:12:18
◼
►
And it seems to me like by the fifth or fortieth time that has happened, it kind of seems like
01:12:23
◼
►
it should figure out that like, "Well, it's always this one Amy."
01:12:28
◼
►
What about-- OK, let me ask you.
01:12:33
◼
►
I don't want to drag on.
01:12:34
◼
►
I know I've got to do a shorty today.
01:12:35
◼
►
But do you notice differences in how your kid uses it?
01:12:37
◼
►
Because something I've learned from people with kids--
01:12:41
◼
►
our kids are-- your kid's older than mine.
01:12:43
◼
►
Mine's nine.
01:12:44
◼
►
Yours is 13?
01:12:48
◼
►
Sir Q says he's got kids that are actually, I think,
01:12:51
◼
►
nine and 13.
01:12:53
◼
►
This is just what my kid does.
01:12:54
◼
►
She's real good at the iPad.
01:12:56
◼
►
She's real good at finding stuff on Google.
01:12:58
◼
►
She's really-- yeah, she's just great on the iPad.
01:13:01
◼
►
But she would prefer to do everything with dictation.
01:13:04
◼
►
She tries to do corrections to what
01:13:06
◼
►
she mistyped with dictation.
01:13:08
◼
►
And like Syracuse, to me, we talk about this.
01:13:10
◼
►
It drives you bananas.
01:13:11
◼
►
You want to tear it out of your hand,
01:13:12
◼
►
just go type like a person with your thumbs.
01:13:14
◼
►
But I think that's very telling that kids really
01:13:17
◼
►
get the voice thing in a way that it feels exotic and slow
01:13:21
◼
►
Well, it makes sense to them.
01:13:24
◼
►
Does your kid do that?
01:13:26
◼
►
Not so much with the iPhone, as far as I can tell.
01:13:29
◼
►
He's mostly a tapper with the iPhone,
01:13:32
◼
►
but doesn't really-- his text messages are incredibly short.
01:13:35
◼
►
Often a single emoji, usually just a word or two.
01:13:39
◼
►
But where he really takes to voice is with the Apple TV.
01:13:44
◼
►
He had a sleepover-- he had a friend sleepover Saturday night.
01:13:48
◼
►
And I mean, they must have spent 90 minutes just laughing
01:13:51
◼
►
hysterically telling Apple TV to play goofy songs I've never heard of, but
01:13:57
◼
►
they did everything by voice. It was all just hitting the mic
01:13:59
◼
►
button and asking Apple TV and Apple Music whatever to play a bunch of goofy
01:14:06
◼
►
songs that I wasn't familiar with, but it was like 90 minutes of uproarious
01:14:09
◼
►
laughter all through the mic button on Apple TV. We had, I think I mentioned
01:14:15
◼
►
this last time, we had a sleepover with seven girls, seven third grade girls. I
01:14:21
◼
►
I don't know what we were thinking.
01:14:22
◼
►
And the, I mean, seven, seven.
01:14:25
◼
►
And oh boy, you want to learn a little bit about politics?
01:14:29
◼
►
How do seven third grade girls sleep at your house?
01:14:31
◼
►
'Cause at first everybody's in a room
01:14:33
◼
►
and then everybody's in different rooms
01:14:34
◼
►
and there's crying and there's reconciliations
01:14:36
◼
►
and it's like one big sad game of diplomacy.
01:14:38
◼
►
Everybody's writing orders in the hallways.
01:14:41
◼
►
But boy, the Amazon's Echo were a big fun feature.
01:14:45
◼
►
I learned stuff from some of the kids.
01:14:48
◼
►
Like I guess I didn't know the thing
01:14:49
◼
►
about how you can tell it, you know, played with the song—
01:14:51
◼
►
That's the real fourth graders of San Francisco.
01:14:56
◼
►
Right, right, right, right. Oh, God, yes. Yeah, yeah. They're like just one Cosmo short
01:15:02
◼
►
of a fistfight.
01:15:04
◼
►
So, you learned stuff about the Alexa.
01:15:06
◼
►
Oh, I did! I guess I knew but forgot the thing about telling it, you know, what's the song
01:15:12
◼
►
that goes, "My mind is clear, now it lasts all too well, I can see." Like, and it'll
01:15:17
◼
►
oh, and then it'll play like, you know, Jesus Christ Superstar or whatever. That's great.
01:15:21
◼
►
But, you know, there, I guess I'm trying to get at, I don't mean, I'm not trying to be like,
01:15:26
◼
►
you know, Kevin Kelly or something here. I'm not as smart as Kevin Kelly, but I'm just saying,
01:15:30
◼
►
like, look to what these people are doing. They're not weird and dumb. Like, they're figuring this
01:15:35
◼
►
out, and we might be the weird ones at this point. So, yeah, I don't know. But then there's still so
01:15:41
◼
►
many holes. I mean, like, to your point, so I have to admit—
01:15:45
◼
►
It's such early days. It's not even holes. It's such early days. The challenge...
01:15:49
◼
►
Good. I would just say it's not holes. I think it's more like we're still in a
01:15:54
◼
►
canyon and we've built a few plateaus. It's mostly hole, I think. Yeah, somebody I
01:16:00
◼
►
remember first in the early days in the 80s describing windows as being like
01:16:04
◼
►
this system where like you'd be in this in this beautiful office building on the
01:16:07
◼
►
13th floor of this beautiful office building only sometimes you'd open a
01:16:10
◼
►
door and fall down a mine shaft to the ground floor.
01:16:13
◼
►
You just get dropped into DOS out of nowhere sometimes.
01:16:16
◼
►
You're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened?
01:16:17
◼
►
Where'd the computer go?"
01:16:18
◼
►
And I think that's still the case here.
01:16:21
◼
►
So I did this other show called "Dude by Friday" where we give each other a challenge every
01:16:25
◼
►
And the challenge I gave my co-host this week was to try what I'm doing, which is try doing
01:16:28
◼
►
this voice thing.
01:16:29
◼
►
And we'll see how that goes.
01:16:30
◼
►
But I've also...
01:16:31
◼
►
The side challenge in this was to start keeping track of the stuff that drives you bananas
01:16:35
◼
►
about using your voice.
01:16:36
◼
►
So if you're ready to lock your keys inside the car, inside of another car, inside of
01:16:39
◼
►
another car. My first thing I did was say, I said something along the lines of, "Hey,
01:16:43
◼
►
Dingus, make a new note called 'bitch.'" Because I thought, "What do I want to be
01:16:48
◼
►
able to do? I want to say, 'Hey, Dingus, add this f-ing thing doesn't work to my
01:16:53
◼
►
bitch note.'" And of course, what happens? Siri goes, "Oh, Merlin, your language is
01:16:58
◼
►
so saucy." I'm like, "No! Dingus!" So I had to go in and manually create a note
01:17:04
◼
►
called "bitch" because it refused to do anything with it because it thought I was
01:17:07
◼
►
being a saucy boy. But, you know, and of course that's the first thing on the list now, is
01:17:12
◼
►
that, you know, that Siri chides me sometimes for how I choose to name things. But, yeah,
01:17:17
◼
►
you're right, you're right. I mean, it is early days, but didn't mean to monopolize
01:17:21
◼
►
your show with voice stuff.
01:17:23
◼
►
It's just, I do feel like it's pretty easy to write, once you get to the age that people
01:17:28
◼
►
like we are, it becomes very easy to just write off huge swaths of stuff by going, like,
01:17:34
◼
►
It's like the whole Douglas Adams thing of stuff that was created before you were 30
01:17:40
◼
►
is dependable.
01:17:41
◼
►
Stuff creating your 30s is cool.
01:17:44
◼
►
Anything after that is dangerous.
01:17:45
◼
►
I don't want to be that guy.
01:17:48
◼
►
I don't want to be the guy—and I always thought this—I don't want to be the guy
01:17:54
◼
►
who is now mid-40s and has really strong opinions about the way computers are, which I am, and
01:18:02
◼
►
who dismisses the new things like the guys who dismissed the Macintosh when it came.
01:18:08
◼
►
Like, I specifically remember— It's a toy for rich boys.
01:18:11
◼
►
I remember very specifically reading a John C. Dvorak column from like 1985 or 86 or something
01:18:18
◼
►
like that, where his argument against the Macintosh and why it was doomed to failure
01:18:23
◼
►
was that real people doing real work want to kick back in their chairs and put their feet on their
01:18:30
◼
►
desk and put their keyboard on their lap and therefore they can't use the mouse.
01:18:34
◼
►
And that's one of those hats that with a car that says press. Yeah and that's exactly how he was
01:18:39
◼
►
banging out the column that I was reading was with his feet on his desk in the Ziff Davis offices in
01:18:45
◼
►
San Francisco and how in the world am I ever going to use a mouse? You know this thing is doomed. I
01:18:50
◼
►
don't want to be that guy with voice. I really don't even though I'm frustrated with it in a lot
01:18:55
◼
►
of ways and I see a lot of problems with it and I see people using it for things where I'm like,
01:18:59
◼
►
like, oh my God, you could totally do that better
01:19:02
◼
►
the old way, but I totally see that it's the new thing
01:19:04
◼
►
that's coming.
01:19:06
◼
►
I know we gotta go soon.
01:19:07
◼
►
I gotta squeeze in, I gotta squeeze in another message
01:19:09
◼
►
from a friend though, and it's--
01:19:10
◼
►
- Yeah, please, by all means.
01:19:11
◼
►
We're talking about something you like.
01:19:13
◼
►
- Well, it's Fracture.
01:19:14
◼
►
Fracture's the-- - You guys know Fracture.
01:19:16
◼
►
- You guys know Fracture.
01:19:18
◼
►
Let me tell you something though.
01:19:19
◼
►
I'm recording this on March 21.
01:19:24
◼
►
- It's probably gonna come out on Wednesday, March 22.
01:19:26
◼
►
Fracture, you send them your photos.
01:19:28
◼
►
You take your photos, you send them to Fracture,
01:19:30
◼
►
they print them right on glass.
01:19:32
◼
►
No frame, just a piece of glass
01:19:34
◼
►
where on the back of the glass
01:19:35
◼
►
they print the photo directly on it.
01:19:37
◼
►
It comes with everything you need to prop it up on a shelf
01:19:40
◼
►
or to hang it on a wall.
01:19:42
◼
►
It comes with everything you need.
01:19:43
◼
►
The quality is amazing.
01:19:44
◼
►
We've got a ton of them in the house, we love them.
01:19:47
◼
►
People will notice it because there's no frame around it.
01:19:49
◼
►
It really looks cool.
01:19:50
◼
►
It's just edge to edge.
01:19:51
◼
►
But here's what I'm telling you about the date.
01:19:54
◼
►
This March, number one, if you get this message
01:19:58
◼
►
through the end of March. You could save 20% on fracture prints with the promo
01:20:01
◼
►
code CLEAN. What they're suggesting, it's a
01:20:04
◼
►
promotion where they want you to clean out your digital camera roll. Go through
01:20:07
◼
►
like their last year of photos and find the keepers. Find like the 10 best photos
01:20:11
◼
►
from your last year. Clean them out. Get them printed and do
01:20:14
◼
►
something with them. Get them off the little phone screen.
01:20:17
◼
►
Hang them on the walls. So through the end of March, you could save 20% with
01:20:20
◼
►
that code CLEAN. C-L-E-A-N.
01:20:24
◼
►
They have a 60-day happiness guarantee. They print them. They're handmade right in Gainesville,
01:20:29
◼
►
Florida from U.S. source materials in a carbon neutral factory. But here's the other thing.
01:20:33
◼
►
Get Mother's Day gifts now. Do it now. Order them now. You'll even save 20% with that code clean.
01:20:40
◼
►
But do it now in March. Do it. Just pick a couple photos of something that'll make your wife or your
01:20:49
◼
►
mom or grandmother, whoever you've got for Mother's Day. They'll love it. There's
01:20:53
◼
►
nothing you can buy them that will make them happier than photos of their family. But do
01:20:58
◼
►
it now because if you wait until close, you will never get it. The fracture, because they're
01:21:02
◼
►
handmade in fracture, you'll never ever get it at the last minute. It's not a last
01:21:06
◼
►
minute gift. Do it now. Put it somewhere. And then when you think like, "Oh crap,
01:21:12
◼
►
it's Mother's Day," you've got nothing left to do except go buy a card and some
01:21:15
◼
►
flowers or whatever, the type of stuff you can do at the last minute, but you've got
01:21:18
◼
►
killer gift right there ready to go. Trust me. I got a workflow for you. If you've been sharing
01:21:23
◼
►
these like we do, if you share them with your family via iCloud, go in and look at the ones
01:21:28
◼
►
that they've like favorited or starved or whatever. What a cheat. Yeah, it's a terrific cheat. You
01:21:34
◼
►
find out, "Oh my god, she's grown so much." Bingo. Right there. Boom. Upload. Click. Pop.
01:21:40
◼
►
Fracture. It's that easy. And their site is a joy to use. It's so easy to use. Come Mother's Day,
01:21:46
◼
►
you're gonna you're gonna be thinking about John and Merlin and you're gonna think John and Merlin did me right
01:21:54
◼
►
Anything else you want to talk about I you know
01:21:56
◼
►
And people probably think that we've got two or three hours left on the show, but we don't we're done
01:22:00
◼
►
Normally we do we had to jam this one in because you're got you know what I could do what I?
01:22:05
◼
►
I'm in a tight spot. It's you partner. I'm in a tight spot recording wise
01:22:09
◼
►
I've got to squeeze in these shows on the rare days when there aren't
01:22:12
◼
►
contractors upstairs banging holes in the walls that the house we're about to move out of.
01:22:17
◼
►
So anyway, it's a long sad story and it makes it hard to do a podcast, but...
01:22:21
◼
►
Well, we probably can't do our follow-up we'd like to do from our November episode.
01:22:29
◼
►
No, it's too deep. Too deep.
01:22:31
◼
►
But I don't want to bust a gut, but I would just like to say
01:22:37
◼
►
sincerely thank you to everybody who responded to that episode. That is
01:22:42
◼
►
maybe the most response I have ever gotten.
01:22:46
◼
►
It's without question for me.
01:22:48
◼
►
I mean, I'm honestly, I'm talking about like you include the talk where I cried, you include that thing
01:22:54
◼
►
I wrote on the thing, like I...
01:22:56
◼
►
We got so much heartfelt,
01:22:59
◼
►
kind responses from people on a day that was very difficult for both of us and for a lot of people.
01:23:04
◼
►
I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to do it, honestly, and thank you to everybody who continues to send nice notes about that.
01:23:10
◼
►
I still remember that moment. How many minutes into that episode?
01:23:14
◼
►
Well, for anybody who's not familiar, the day after the election—was it the day after? The morning. The morning after the election.
01:23:20
◼
►
Which Merlin and I both took pretty hard.
01:23:23
◼
►
We recorded an episode of the show about it,
01:23:27
◼
►
but without trying—the purpose was to just sort of talk our way through this and talk anybody else who was upset through this in a way
01:23:32
◼
►
that was, you can't quite say apolitical, but a nonpartisan.
01:23:37
◼
►
- Not strictly partisan. - Not strictly partisan.
01:23:41
◼
►
And at some point, a few minutes into the show,
01:23:45
◼
►
you said, "Wait, is this a holiday party?"
01:23:49
◼
►
It wasn't, you weren't aware at first.
01:23:53
◼
►
- I wasn't aware, it reminded me of the holiday party
01:23:56
◼
►
episode that you did with Dan a long time ago,
01:23:59
◼
►
where you told the story of losing your driver's license.
01:24:02
◼
►
And I could tell you were having a holiday party.
01:24:04
◼
►
I was having a holiday party.
01:24:06
◼
►
Was that a continuation of the previous night's holiday party?
01:24:09
◼
►
Yeah, I took the election very hard the night.
01:24:14
◼
►
Obviously, I was sober enough at one point
01:24:17
◼
►
to make arrangements with you to do a show the next day.
01:24:22
◼
►
I really tried to drink away that election.
01:24:25
◼
►
And then it was maybe enough to drink where I woke up
01:24:29
◼
►
there was still a significant portion of the fuel coursing through my veins.
01:24:34
◼
►
I tried to scoop up everybody, but sometimes you're going to miss some people.
01:24:39
◼
►
I might have thought to myself, if there's a Wednesday where you can have an eye opener,
01:24:43
◼
►
maybe this is the Wednesday. That's your day. That's daddy's day.
01:24:47
◼
►
But it did. And you were right, and all joking aside, we got a tremendous amount of wonderful,
01:24:53
◼
►
heartfelt feedback immediately. And it lasted though, like into January. And even, it still
01:25:00
◼
►
pops up every once in a while now where people will say, you know, I've listened to that
01:25:03
◼
►
episode six times and I've never done that with a podcast before. And it's like, that's
01:25:07
◼
►
crazy that you listen to it.
01:25:08
◼
►
So many people who said like, I couldn't listen to it for a month. Because they were so, they
01:25:12
◼
►
were having their own dark month of the soul. And they, and then they were like, I listened
01:25:17
◼
►
to it and it, you know, it doesn't make you feel better, but it makes you feel a little
01:25:21
◼
►
Maybe a little different and and a lot of people said like did made me feel like I wasn't alone. I'm not crazy
01:25:26
◼
►
Yeah, so anyway, this is luckily all that settled now. Everything's running like a top. It's like it's like really like a well-oiled machine
01:25:34
◼
►
Every day every day every day
01:25:37
◼
►
Okay, so one of the worst things I've done in the last few months is one of my friends
01:25:41
◼
►
I do that show with Max Temkin
01:25:43
◼
►
He he has this list of people this political US political people and reporters and I started following much to my peril
01:25:50
◼
►
I started following this fucking list and it's just unraveled my entire life because I spent so much time there going flipper flipper flipper
01:25:57
◼
►
And tweet bot looking at this thing is this a twitter like in other words
01:26:01
◼
►
Yeah, if you go to max tempkin at max tempkin and look at his list
01:26:05
◼
►
You'll see his US politics list and it's actually it's a good way. Like that's how I've learned about like
01:26:08
◼
►
Molly Habermann and Simon Molloy and all these people that I really follow like some boy is funny. He's very funny
01:26:15
◼
►
so anyway, but it seems like
01:26:19
◼
►
Pretty much every Monday and a lot of most other days someone announces. This is it
01:26:24
◼
►
And I gotta get away from this one, this is it this is the worst day that the Republican candidate has had
01:26:35
◼
►
Set there's no
01:26:37
◼
►
This is there's piss
01:26:43
◼
►
Done done. So
01:26:46
◼
►
This is it and then you come back the next day and you go, you know what?
01:26:49
◼
►
Today, he had the worst day.
01:26:58
◼
►
Release the Kraken! When do we get to see the piss video? That's what I want to know!
01:27:02
◼
►
In a lot of ways, you have to laugh. It's hard because there are some real-world consequences to the environmental policy.
01:27:14
◼
►
Anhala Merkel, her face.
01:27:16
◼
►
Like, really?
01:27:17
◼
►
You're not going to shake my hand, dude?
01:27:19
◼
►
You understand?
01:27:20
◼
►
We're the last liberal democracy left in Europe.
01:27:23
◼
►
There were a couple of moments.
01:27:24
◼
►
I didn't watch the whole thing, but there were two moments.
01:27:26
◼
►
There was the, do you want to shake hands?
01:27:29
◼
►
And he's just looking at his feet.
01:27:31
◼
►
And then there was the moment where
01:27:33
◼
►
they were standing at the podiums side by side.
01:27:36
◼
►
That was in-- the handshake that didn't happen
01:27:38
◼
►
was in the Oval Office.
01:27:40
◼
►
They had the press conference at the dueling podiums.
01:27:45
◼
►
And Trump, when it was asked about his--
01:27:49
◼
►
Question about wiretapping.
01:27:50
◼
►
Yeah, his spurious claim that Obama had wiretapped him,
01:27:53
◼
►
turned to her and made a joke and said,
01:27:55
◼
►
maybe we've got something in common there,
01:27:57
◼
►
referring to one of the most difficult moments
01:28:01
◼
►
of the entire Obama administration when it--
01:28:03
◼
►
I think it was at a Snowden leak, right?
01:28:06
◼
►
that uh you know that we've been you know but she did she snapped her neck on a double take
01:28:14
◼
►
that you could not fake right like she was it she was like good right not because she wasn't
01:28:21
◼
►
aware of it just because it's so something that was not supposed to be talked about it was as
01:28:26
◼
►
though so it was as though trump had brought up toilet splatter it was the look on angela
01:28:33
◼
►
Angela Merkel's face when he brought up, "Maybe we've got something together, something familiar."
01:28:40
◼
►
And all the German reporters, the German reporters are like in some kind of a Hans Christian Anderson
01:28:46
◼
►
book where they're like, "Uh, why do you keep saying things that you know aren't true?" And
01:28:53
◼
►
America's like, "Wow, that's really brave." That's very courageous.
01:28:56
◼
►
Did you see that the reporter who asked that question, she has become like a celebrity in
01:29:03
◼
►
Germany simply because of her. She's like a modern folk hero. Right, because she just flatly asked
01:29:08
◼
►
him, "Mr. President, why do you continue and repeatedly say things that you know aren't true?"
01:29:13
◼
►
You think we'll be back here in four months with the same situation? No, God-willing,
01:29:19
◼
►
if you and I visit again here on your program, thank you for having me. Do I think Trump will
01:29:24
◼
►
- He will still be present. - He will spitball it for me.
01:29:26
◼
►
- Can this continue?
01:29:29
◼
►
- I think one of the things that, to me,
01:29:32
◼
►
is very obvious was that this was gonna be a disaster,
01:29:36
◼
►
a complete disaster, but I think it was,
01:29:38
◼
►
I also thought it's gonna be impossible to predict how,
01:29:42
◼
►
and I think that's completely coming out.
01:29:44
◼
►
I don't think anybody is quite called
01:29:47
◼
►
the way that this has gone bad.
01:29:50
◼
►
- Right, right, right. - I think there's
01:29:53
◼
►
good chance that he doesn't make it. I think there's a good chance that he gets to a point
01:29:58
◼
►
where he resigns. But I feel like four months from now is probably not soon enough.
01:30:05
◼
►
Will you hand me back?
01:30:07
◼
►
I will. I would love to have you back. What do you think? Do you think? I mean, it's a
01:30:13
◼
►
real irresistible force meeting an irresistible force and immovable object type situation.
01:30:19
◼
►
One part of this, one part that's always seemed plausible to me, honestly, is that
01:30:25
◼
►
I don't think he really wanted this job. I think he wanted to win, but I don't think
01:30:28
◼
►
he wanted the job. I mean, so it's always been plausible to me that knowing that he
01:30:32
◼
►
is a bit of a wild card and likes his life a certain way, I mean, just, you know, first
01:30:36
◼
►
principles, Clarice, like he does not like being in Washington. He goes frickin' golfing
01:30:41
◼
►
every weekend in a different state. Like that's, there's, this job is not suited to his personality.
01:30:48
◼
►
Why so many executive orders?
01:30:49
◼
►
He likes to autograph things and be photographed.
01:30:52
◼
►
That kind of thing he's good at.
01:30:53
◼
►
Like he likes that.
01:30:54
◼
►
And he likes the rallies and the stuff like that.
01:30:57
◼
►
But I don't, I think to say he's gonna get bored,
01:31:00
◼
►
I think would be a little dismissive,
01:31:02
◼
►
but I don't think he likes this job.
01:31:03
◼
►
I don't think he gets to be the kind of person
01:31:05
◼
►
he wants to be in this job.
01:31:06
◼
►
He wants to be liked by people,
01:31:08
◼
►
and he wants to golf a lot.
01:31:10
◼
►
I mean, he basically wants to be a retiree
01:31:12
◼
►
who does a volunteer job.
01:31:14
◼
►
He doesn't wanna do this job.
01:31:16
◼
►
- I think if he can get to a point
01:31:18
◼
►
where in his own worldview,
01:31:22
◼
►
and in the worldview of the people
01:31:23
◼
►
who still are crazy for him,
01:31:27
◼
►
if he can declare that he's made America great again,
01:31:32
◼
►
and it took far less time than anybody ever expected,
01:31:35
◼
►
and then he can just walk off into the,
01:31:38
◼
►
my job is done, America's great again,
01:31:41
◼
►
Pencey here can clean up,
01:31:43
◼
►
can dot the I's and cross the T's.
01:31:46
◼
►
I think that he but I think he's guiding he'd have to you know figure out a way
01:31:52
◼
►
that he and he and at this point he can't say that he hasn't done anything
01:31:55
◼
►
no but the other angle is like you think about his even more common theme
01:32:00
◼
►
nowadays it's how undermined he is yeah I by the media and by these perfidious
01:32:08
◼
►
Republicans and like you know basically he's he's not he's he's a person who
01:32:14
◼
►
isn't sure what to do in the absence of a clear enemy. So, you know, the other, I agree with you,
01:32:21
◼
►
if he can MAGA to his, if he can pound sign MAGA in a way that he can claim victory, sure.
01:32:27
◼
►
And the other thing is, though, he might be able to, like, you know, set his own personal Reichstag
01:32:33
◼
►
fire. He might self-immolate and say like, "Oh, you know, the dishonest media and the, you know,
01:32:38
◼
►
failing New York Times, everybody's undermined me. So, like, I could do better work, like,
01:32:43
◼
►
like going and creating my own TV network.
01:32:45
◼
►
And I could affect some real change in this world.
01:32:48
◼
►
- Yeah, he needs an ally. - But we'll see.
01:32:49
◼
►
- It is curious, he does need an enemy,
01:32:52
◼
►
like it's very clear, and I just saw,
01:32:54
◼
►
I didn't watch all of that,
01:32:55
◼
►
I can't take him in large doses,
01:32:56
◼
►
but I saw that he had a campaign rally,
01:32:58
◼
►
and the fact that it, (laughs)
01:33:01
◼
►
60 days into office, he's holding campaign rallies
01:33:04
◼
►
for an election that was--
01:33:05
◼
►
- My daughter keeps saying he knows he won, right?
01:33:09
◼
►
Like, I think he knows he won.
01:33:10
◼
►
It's still all about Hillary Clinton.
01:33:12
◼
►
- Well, the election was five months ago, almost.
01:33:15
◼
►
And yes, and his rally a night or two ago in Kentucky,
01:33:20
◼
►
I think it was in Louisville, was about Hillary Clinton.
01:33:23
◼
►
And he said something to the effect of,
01:33:25
◼
►
we're gonna protect the Second Amendment,
01:33:27
◼
►
it's gonna be in such good hands,
01:33:29
◼
►
and it wouldn't be if a certain someone else
01:33:32
◼
►
had won this election.
01:33:35
◼
►
And this election is sort of like in the present tense.
01:33:38
◼
►
It's like, dude, that was five months ago.
01:33:40
◼
►
Like that is Hillary Clinton's out wandering the woods.
01:33:44
◼
►
God bless her, I love her.
01:33:47
◼
►
But this election, this guy is crazy.
01:33:50
◼
►
In terms of his need to have an enemy.
01:33:53
◼
►
So I don't know.
01:33:55
◼
►
I don't see it.
01:33:55
◼
►
- Check back in in July.
01:33:57
◼
►
- Yeah, I think so.
01:34:00
◼
►
- I need a holiday party.
01:34:01
◼
►
I need some Brazilian steak.