The Talk Show

258: ‘Pousse-Café’ With John Moltz


00:00:00   John Moltz, my friend. How are you on this? How are you on this Friday, late July?

00:00:05   Sweaty. I had to turn the air conditioning off, so I might be profusely sweating by the time this

00:00:14   is done. If I was smarter man, if I were a much smarter man, I would have turned the AC down

00:00:18   hours ago, and then instead left it at 73. So, oh yeah, so it's not like super,

00:00:28   It's not gonna last you.

00:00:30   And as I sat here waiting for this to start, the weather outside went from overcast to

00:00:36   sunny.

00:00:37   It's beating right down on my desk.

00:00:42   Just thinking about it is making me sweaty.

00:00:44   But it cooled off there, right?

00:00:46   Yeah, it did.

00:00:47   We had a stretch of about eight or nine days where it was mid-90s with really high humidity.

00:00:55   I don't know if it's the same thing.

00:00:57   the heat index and then there's the quote unquote feels like which I'm a big believer in I actually

00:01:03   almost wish that I could change some of my weather apps to prefer the feels like as opposed to the

00:01:09   official here's what a thermometer says the temperature is because I feel like it's a much

00:01:13   more accurate gauge we were down in uh Orlando at the beginning of the month for for some time at the

00:01:19   Disney parks and the universal and etc etc you know July down in Orlando it's yeah perfect time

00:01:25   to go yeah it's absolutely beautiful well you know what we time it right

00:01:31   though we do this every year and we we have it scheduled so that like the last

00:01:35   two days last two or three days even we spend a lot of most of the time at the

00:01:39   pool and it's that's actually kind of nice so you like you like kill yourself

00:01:43   going on all these rides for a couple of days and then yeah spend some time at

00:01:47   the pool but anyway it was general and this is Orlando Florida in July it was

00:01:53   generally like plus eight on the feels like index so if it said it was 94 it

00:01:59   would be like feels like 102 the other at the end of this heat wave in Philly

00:02:04   it was plus 13 it was like I swear to God it was like 93 degrees and it was

00:02:09   like feels like 107 it was that thick in humid it was man it was pretty bad

00:02:15   nothing wrong with the climate though I'll tell you no no that's fine that's

00:02:20   It's all gonna work out.

00:02:25   You know this because we're on a slack together.

00:02:27   Amy and I went to see the Rolling Stones here in Philadelphia Tuesday night at the Lincoln

00:02:34   Financial Field.

00:02:35   Now that was after the heat wave broke.

00:02:37   So it was actually pretty pleasant.

00:02:38   We actually had rain during the concert, but it was sort of a light rain.

00:02:42   It wasn't a heavy rain, so it was all very pleasant.

00:02:45   uh, but it could have melted. None of the mouth had Keith maybe almost

00:02:52   a little soft, but they didn't melt.

00:02:56   Can I just say, I would just like to say to start the show that I,

00:03:00   it's like the jokes about the rolling stones being old started when I was a

00:03:05   kid, you know, like in the, in the eighties, you know,

00:03:08   like I've always been a fan of the rolling stones. It's a, it's a band.

00:03:11   My mom, God bless her turned me on too.

00:03:14   Although my mom, like, I don't know if it was a sign of the times or what, but my mom

00:03:22   like tuned, completely tuned out of popular music as soon as I was born.

00:03:28   So every, she didn't buy any, like she had like no records after 1973.

00:03:33   So like.

00:03:34   I think that's a typical, I think that's a sort of typical parent thing.

00:03:36   Yeah.

00:03:37   Oh, I, you know, I'm probably as guilty of it as anybody.

00:03:39   I probably tuned out before, before Jairus was born.

00:03:43   Like so my childhood I loved listening to her Beatles and Stones records

00:03:48   She was you know had big on both, but they were all sort of like mid-60s. And so it was older stuff

00:03:54   Always a fan of the stones, you know for most of my life probably if you press me to say who's your favorite band?

00:04:00   I probably would have said the Rolling Stones from

00:04:02   Ten years old through today

00:04:05   But the jokes about them being old started, you know

00:04:08   like in the 80s and and I feel like they've gotten so old and if still still

00:04:13   the same thing that nobody even jokes about it you know I mean like they've

00:04:16   looped around and everybody I honestly I just think people are like they're just

00:04:22   in awe it was funny we had seats it was at the football stadium the Lincoln

00:04:26   financial field and don't feel great name don't get me started on stadium

00:04:30   number one it's been the Lincoln we've already talked about that it has been

00:04:34   Lincoln financial field ever since they built the damn thing. I still have I have no idea what

00:04:40   Lincoln financial is. I don't know it's really working. I really don't I don't think it's a bank.

00:04:46   I think I don't know what it is. But yeah, the money money well spent but anyway, we had seats

00:04:52   probably at like the equivalent of the 50 yard line maybe a little bit closer more like the

00:04:58   45 yard line but they were on the aisle in the stones. There's a big stage up front with some

00:05:03   of the biggest, brightest displays I've ever seen in my life. It's unbelievable that these things

00:05:08   get trucked around the country for the concerts. I mean, they're way bigger, taller, brighter than

00:05:15   most of the similar type signage on the Las Vegas strip, which is permanent 365 days a year. Just

00:05:22   unbelievable. But they had this sort of catwalk that came out from the stage to maybe the 50-yard

00:05:31   line. And Mick would, you know, sometimes run out there and then they the whole band came out for an

00:05:36   acoustic set like how you know, two or three songs halfway through the show. And we were really close

00:05:40   to that part of the stage. It was really cool. But we're right on the aisle. And it's sort of an aisle

00:05:46   between us and this catwalk that comes out 40 yards from the main stage. And we're waiting for

00:05:51   the concert to start. And the, you know, as people are wanting to do at a concert people, people with,

00:05:59   you know, tickets in the back might try to wander up to the front. And the security people were

00:06:05   right on top of it, were very clear. And at one point, it made Amy laugh out loud. Somebody came

00:06:11   up and was like, you know, saying like, "I just want to come up here and dance." And the security

00:06:15   guard said to her, "Ma'am, this is an older audience. You never know. We might have a medical

00:06:19   emergency. We need to keep this aisle clear." I swear to God, Amy almost died. Because, and it was

00:06:29   we could somebody might break a hip somebody might break a hip and it's wet you know it's somebody

00:06:35   might might be a slip and fall so now the jokes are about the fans yes exactly and it is it is so

00:06:44   true like if you if you're you know mid-40s you maybe even you know maybe 50 maybe up to 55 you

00:06:51   want to feel young you want to feel good about yourself go to a rolling stones concert wow

00:06:58   Yeah, that's that's probably beds better. Yeah, I mean I've done I've done the opposite which I think is about when I stopped going to

00:07:03   Live music because I was with a friend and we're looking around like oh my god, we're the oldest people here. We're the old guys

00:07:13   Oh, man

00:07:16   I will say we gotta stop coming to these I it is amazing mick jagger. I looked it up. I did the research

00:07:21   He's 76 years old, which is stunning. He looks absolutely fantastic

00:07:26   I really, I mean I can't say I got super close to him, but I mean he certainly fit.

00:07:33   I think he has done an incredible service to himself.

00:07:38   I mean he's obviously coloring his hair, his hair is still brown, but he's not doing

00:07:45   the plastic surgery thing.

00:07:46   His face is craggled and he's doing it the right way.

00:07:52   I think their initial aging was, you know, is the Indiana Jones thing. It's not the years, it's the mileage, right?

00:07:57   Yeah, yeah, totally. And then that's why they probably mostly stayed the same since then. Right.

00:08:01   Yeah, you know, Ron Wood looks great. Charlie Watts is the drummer.

00:08:06   It looks amazing. And also, just is like the least rock and roll guy you'll ever see. He just, he was just wearing like a green

00:08:13   Oxford shirt.

00:08:15   I said to him, he's dressed like I dress.

00:08:19   It's just wearing a plain green shirt looks like it came from the gap or something

00:08:22   Keith you know Keith is doing something with his hair now that I have to say I would I would probably advise him against just sort

00:08:30   Of got like a shoe polish

00:08:31   look I

00:08:33   think it looked a little better when it was sort of gray and wiry and and

00:08:37   But you know he sounds good the sound stone sounded amazing. It's a great was a great concert

00:08:42   You have to say and I've got almighty. I hope I'm in

00:08:44   Still doing what I do when I'm 76 years old god bless him

00:08:48   (laughing)

00:08:50   - Doing the talk show live and a security guy

00:08:56   says this is an older crowd.

00:08:57   - We need to keep these aisles clear.

00:09:01   Anyway, my idea for this is that we would do

00:09:11   a Q&A episode and so thinking ahead,

00:09:14   two or three hours ago, I asked--

00:09:16   - You destroyed my mentions.

00:09:18   I asked people on Twitter for their questions.

00:09:22   I think this should be fun.

00:09:23   I think there's a lot of stuff in here.

00:09:24   I'm not gonna organize these in any sort of topical way,

00:09:27   so we'll skip around unless you object.

00:09:30   - No.

00:09:31   - But it seems like too much work to actually--

00:09:33   - Exactly, yeah.

00:09:34   And we should have done it beforehand.

00:09:35   - Oh, obviously.

00:09:36   - Which obviously we did not do.

00:09:37   - I gave my intern the day off.

00:09:39   - Okay, yeah, well, he deserves it.

00:09:41   - Yeah.

00:09:42   All right, here's the first question from Lincoln Roselle.

00:09:46   asks who do you think the next Bond will be and who do you want it to be do you care about James

00:09:51   Bond everybody knows I like James Bond I do I probably don't care as much as you do but um I do

00:09:57   care uh and didn't they announce something like someone's gonna be the next 007 right uh yeah I

00:10:05   I'm trying was that a rumor no because I didn't read that whole thing yeah I'm trying to remain

00:10:10   you know I'm doing my spoiler free thing with this uh still still untitled Bond 25 film but

00:10:16   something I did see something to the effect of that there so I don't know if

00:10:20   it's true or not but that some I think it's a woman is already you know it's

00:10:27   somehow it's leaked that in this next film she's double-oh-seven and so I

00:10:31   guess the assumption there she's not James Bond right she's double but that

00:10:35   somehow James Bond has either lost his double-oh status or retired from his

00:10:38   double-oh status and he's been replaced in the ranks as double-oh-seven by by a

00:10:44   woman which would be an interesting twist I suppose I guess it depends on

00:10:48   how they want to play the continuity game going forward mm-hmm it is funny I

00:10:55   was thinking about this I forget where somebody somebody was tweeting

00:10:59   something about bond oh I I think I linked it up on daring fireball where

00:11:04   somebody ranked all of the Bond villains from all 24 films and ranked them from

00:11:11   worst to best which was I didn't necessarily agree with his rankings in

00:11:17   a lot of ways but I thought it was just it's just an enormous amount of work

00:11:20   because it's an awful lot of any villain or henchmen who was worthy of a name you

00:11:25   know as opposed to like henchmen - was was in the listings and ranked but one

00:11:31   of the things he pointed out and I think back in the day when Dan Benjamin and I

00:11:35   were doing the let's go through one at a time and and at the end you'd show do a

00:11:40   review of the Bond movies. I think we touched on this because we did them in chronological order.

00:11:46   But when you look at them in the aggregate, and especially when you look at today's

00:11:50   blockbuster movie world, especially I would say, most especially with the Marvel,

00:11:57   quote unquote, cinematic universe, where these films tie together almost like TV episodes,

00:12:04   you know, you kind of need to watch them in order. And the characters from the various

00:12:10   Films good guys and bad guys pop up in the other ones and then they have the Avenger ones where they're all supposed to be

00:12:15   there and it's it's

00:12:17   tons and tons of continuity the Bond movies in the early decades the 60s and 70s had like the most ridiculous

00:12:25   lack of continuity like the

00:12:28   the only

00:12:30   The only time you're coming back playing do different two different characters, right? They had a guy

00:12:35   In

00:12:39   You you only live twice which is the one where Bond goes to Japan Sean Connery goes to Japan and he meets

00:12:47   somebody from mi6 who's been like the station chief in Tokyo for a long time and he's you know,

00:12:54   even though he's very British he's like dressed up in like a Japanese kimono and

00:12:59   Losing a very Japanese house and get stabbed in the back. Oh and that was the scene. It's a famous scene where

00:13:06   He offers bond a martini and says stirred right or stirred not shaken

00:13:13   Which of course is backwards from his preference but bond being the gentleman that he is says. Yes, that's perfect

00:13:18   It was a it's a very nice little scene of sort of British

00:13:22   politeness

00:13:24   But anyway that same actor played Blofeld in diamonds or forever like which is like four years later and they did no makeup

00:13:32   There's no makeup. He has the same hairstyle. It's just the same guy. It's the same guy

00:13:36   Like so not only did they not it like I think it's I mean, you know back then

00:13:43   It might show on TV every once in a while

00:13:46   But nobody had video, you know, right VHS tapes floating around of it or anything like right? So it's like you wouldn't remember right?

00:13:53   Right, right. It just was so they could get away with it, right? The only the only

00:13:59   Characters who they consistently cast the bond of course and then money penny and M. M

00:14:05   Thank you and Q

00:14:08   That was it other than those four. They would just they'd recast anything goes anybody and everybody

00:14:13   One movie the first movie Felix Leiter is Jack Lord and he looks cool AF, you know looks

00:14:22   You know to me any good Felix Leiter should look like a guy who should have his own series of films

00:14:28   films. And then like two movies later, he was like an old man going to KFC. Like a muthafuld

00:14:35   old man. It's so bizarre. Anyway, who do we want as the next Bond? I don't know. Everybody,

00:14:44   the name at the top of everybody's list is Idris Elba of various fame, including The

00:14:50   Wire and a bunch of other great movies. I certainly wouldn't object to it. He's certainly

00:14:55   cool yeah you know the fact that he's black doesn't matter to me at all I

00:15:02   think that would be sort of a cool thing to do actually and of course you know

00:15:06   there's some weird corner of the internet that would go crazy the way

00:15:10   that of course you know there's people who've gone crazy because they're gonna

00:15:14   make a live-action Little Mermaid Disney you know Disney's take Disney's taking

00:15:20   all of these classic animated cartoons and then making live-action ones for

00:15:25   absolutely no good reason very strange like that was my take on them I didn't

00:15:31   see I think it's I think it's to make money I'm pretty sure that's the reason

00:15:34   right that you can somehow make more money by spending a hundred million

00:15:39   dollars to make a live-action Lion King that just remakes the animated version

00:15:44   but you make 500 million in worldwide box office that I guess they wouldn't

00:15:48   have made if they just put the animated version back in but anyway apparently

00:15:53   they've cast a young african-american woman as the little mermaid and of course there's they're not racist at all

00:16:00   They just you know

00:16:02   They're just pointing out how a black person could not be a mermaid

00:16:06   And typically speaking right you guys realize that the if there's a realism

00:16:16   Problem with the character

00:16:21   I sort of went away at fish person.

00:16:23   Right!

00:16:25   You don't think a black mermaid is realistic?

00:16:32   [laughter]

00:16:34   You really might want to...

00:16:36   I'm out. Forget it. I can't believe this anymore.

00:16:38   [laughter]

00:16:40   So anyway...

00:16:42   I was fine at singing mermaid.

00:16:46   [laughter]

00:16:48   Also it turns into a we're a woman right?

00:16:51   There's a lot of scientific problems with the but I'm out at black

00:16:57   Count me out. Yeah

00:17:00   So it almost be worth it if they cast Ildris

00:17:04   Oh, but just to see those reactions and watch people's heads sure blow up and then watch the movie still go on to make

00:17:10   600 gazillion dollars. Yeah, I've been people have already flipped out when he was in the Marvel movies. Yeah. Yeah playing Heimdall

00:17:17   Yeah, and I have to say the way that Hollywood works and that they the way that it there's sort

00:17:24   of a hive mind mentality, you know, that when something works, like, you know, I don't know how

00:17:31   long it was before there were big budget space shooters, but then Star Wars comes out and then

00:17:35   every other movie in the late 70s. You know, even the James Bond movie Moonraker all of a sudden

00:17:39   they're going into outer space shooting lasers at each other. I would have to think that the

00:17:45   phenomenal, critical and box office success of Black Panther certainly would motivate people to

00:17:52   cast, you know, someone like get this role but in a big, big role like that. And it's a shame that

00:17:59   you have to have somebody, you know, they're just following the lead. But it's I think it's a good

00:18:03   thing for just the overall diversity of the casting in these big budget action movies.

00:18:10   So that'd be great. I think he would be fantastic in or I think he's, you know, certainly got the

00:18:13   gravitas. He's got the voice. He's got the cool. You can absolutely positively see him and just

00:18:19   imagine him in a nice tuxedo ordering a vodka martini. Absolutely. The downside to Idris Elba

00:18:27   is that he's already 47 years old. Right. I was going to say he's kind of old now. People have

00:18:32   been talking about it for 10 years. Right. And so, presumably, if this is the last movie that

00:18:43   Christ what's-his-name

00:18:44   Daniel Craig Daniel Craig makes which it's you know, he's had a good run

00:18:49   It was rumored that the last one was gonna be the last one that he would do

00:18:52   Five movies is a hell of a run in the role and he you know wants to go on to other things

00:18:57   Certainly makes sense that this is probably going to be his last one you would think though

00:19:01   They'd want to recast it with someone who himself could make five movies and maybe at 47 Idris Elba is a little too old

00:19:08   Yeah, one of the things that people like when they cast Roger Moore

00:19:12   Well one of these sort of ran into a problem toward the end

00:19:15   Definitely ran into a problem at the end and one of the things that was curious about casting Roger Moore's Roger Moore

00:19:21   Was actually a year or two older than Sean Connery, right?

00:19:25   So he was already older than Sean Connery when he took over the role

00:19:29   I think did very very fine

00:19:33   Through the 70s and then by the 80s

00:19:36   Definitely and I had the he had the old man run by that. Yeah

00:19:42   his last was a view to a kill in 1985 and it's it's a funny little you know

00:19:51   bond trivia thing that 1985 was also the year that never say never again came out

00:19:57   which was the only Bond movie that was not from the same production team

00:20:02   because of a very long-running legal squabble over the rights to the novel

00:20:11   Thunderball where

00:20:13   There was this other guy who apparently had worked with Ian Fleming on a television

00:20:18   play or script and

00:20:20   They you know, it was basically the story of Thunderball. What if what if terrorists could could hijack a nuclear

00:20:29   Missile on a jet, you know by by by getting a pilot to be a double actor

00:20:37   They it never came to fruition and then Ian Fleming when I went ahead and just made a novel with the basic plot called

00:20:43   Thunderball long run, you know, they ended up making that movie

00:20:46   But this guy I forget his name doesn't really matter

00:20:49   but he eventually won the legal rights to to co-own the plot and the name James Bond and

00:20:56   So never say never again is a very strange movie because it doesn't have the same theme song because that obviously belonged to the eon productions

00:21:04   The credits were very strange, but they did convince Sean Connery to take the role

00:21:09   which is really the only way it got made and Connery did it just because he had a

00:21:13   Falling out with the Albert Cubby from eon and just one wanted to stick it to him

00:21:19   but so in 1985 there were two Bond movies there was never say never again starring Sean Connery and

00:21:26   View to a kill with Roger Moore and view to a kill actually did better at the box office, but

00:21:34   I think Sean Connery clearly better looked to the part and yeah

00:21:38   And it was interesting because at least in never say never again at the beginning they sort of

00:21:44   Acknowledge that he's old bond, you know, and there's he there's a new M who is clearly, you know

00:21:50   like maybe 15 20 years younger than bond himself and does the famous scene where

00:21:55   Tells him he's got too many free radicals

00:21:58   free radicals sir, and he goes yes, it's

00:22:01   from

00:22:03   Too much red meat too much bread too many vodka martinis

00:22:07   And Connor without missing a beat says then I shall endeavor to cut down on my bread

00:22:13   But anyway, they at least acknowledged that he was older and sort of at the end of his career

00:22:22   Where is never our view to a kill? There's no acknowledgement whatsoever that Roger Moore

00:22:27   Yeah, 60 year old man who can't really run up a place to be out there. Yeah, just like fighting people and

00:22:32   And I don't think the makeup team or the cinematographer really did him any any no any justice either

00:22:38   Didn't really get a lot of help

00:22:41   Yeah

00:22:43   anyway

00:22:44   So anyway Idris Elba I would give a thumbs up to with the provision that who knows, you know

00:22:49   Can he go for you know, and especially nowadays these Bond movies even if they you know start there's such major major blockbuster productions

00:22:57   That you know, they come three four years apart

00:23:00   So if he's going to do five, you know, you're talking maybe 20 years, you know, I really I don't care

00:23:06   What kind of condition I mean, it could be Mick Jagger, right, but you don't want bond as a 67 year old

00:23:11   No, I think we learned that

00:23:14   We learned that lesson unless it's less. It's a very different movie

00:23:18   anybody who's

00:23:21   got an English accent and is handsome and

00:23:23   Vaguely tall is often mentioned as a bond Tom Hiddleston Hiddleston

00:23:30   I just him Hiddleston. Yeah, who probably is best known as Loki in the

00:23:36   back to the Marvel Universe

00:23:39   He's often mentioned and he did a I'll recommend this here. I don't know if you ever watched it. There was a TV series

00:23:44   I forget what network it was on was like a eight or ten episode TV series called the

00:23:49   the night manager

00:23:52   And he plays, you know a vague, you know

00:23:56   Sort of a spy, you know, it seems sort of like his Remington Steele. Yeah

00:24:01   That was it. That was the comparison. I was gonna draw it too because he seems like a more Pierce Brosnan II. Yeah

00:24:07   Like he would be a more Pierce Brosnan II bond

00:24:10   And I I like Pierce Pierce Brosnan his bond a lot more than I thought I was going to for sure

00:24:15   And I think he did a fair job. I think he was in some bad movies. Yeah, he was in some really bad movies

00:24:20   I think he got I

00:24:23   Think he was born for the role. I think he was absolutely fantastic at it and

00:24:27   Really got stuck with just some god-awful movies. Yeah, if you just watch GoldenEye you you can really appreciate

00:24:35   What a great bond he was. Mm-hmm

00:24:37   Well, my favorite thing is I was watching some documentary at one point

00:24:44   I don't know

00:24:45   It was like the commemorate the 50th anniversary of Bond or something like that and they talked to a whole bunch of the actors

00:24:50   Of course Sean Connery wouldn't wouldn't participate

00:24:52   but even even Pierce Brosnan got mixed up between the titles of his movies and he totally he totally

00:25:01   acknowledged that he forgets which ones which yeah I don't remember I don't remember either

00:25:06   no it doesn't so it doesn't sound like this this woman is going to be James Bond but if they were

00:25:12   going to cast a woman I was gonna throw at Frankie Adams who is she's from New Zealand so she's not

00:25:17   British per se but

00:25:18   She is in the expanse

00:25:20   And she plays Bobby Draper in the expanse and she's just a she's a badass Frankie Adams. Oh Frankie Adams. Yeah, okay

00:25:27   Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, maybe you know, I

00:25:31   if they wanted to cast a woman I I think it's I think that's probably

00:25:36   Better serve to create a new character like and you know, maybe I'm on maybe I'm on the wrong side of this

00:25:43   You know, maybe this is me being you know on the spectrum of saying I can't I can't imagine a black guy is James Bond

00:25:49   But I don't know I sort of depends on how much you define misogyny as part of the role

00:25:59   Exactly, right. I you know, I do I like the trend of putting women in

00:26:07   Serious

00:26:10   Action roles in within the movies, you know, the new money penny is a badass

00:26:14   As opposed to all of them being damsels in distress type characters, yeah

00:26:21   But we shall see I don't know. I also feel like the best thing they could do is

00:26:26   Go in a different direction pick somebody who in some ways is not Daniel Craig, you know

00:26:33   just to and it's part of what made the the Roger Moore transition work is that

00:26:39   he didn't try to do Sean Connery at all. He was just very, very comfortably Roger Moore,

00:26:47   for better or for worse, you know, and I think in some ways better for the 70s.

00:26:51   Yeah.

00:26:53   But in a way that didn't age as well. There's not as much retro cool to his movies to me.

00:26:58   I think in general, I like a Bond who seems like he's believably a good fighter. And I don't,

00:27:05   I mean, I don't think Roger Moore really pulled that off that well. Maybe early on he can he gets by but well

00:27:13   I know unless so Pierce Brosnan as well, but even I like him I

00:27:17   Always said I always thought that re watching the more movies and I think it was to his credit that that he turned

00:27:24   Bond into a little bit more of a superhero

00:27:26   And he always came across and somehow made it feel right like he came across as a bond who had already

00:27:35   he read the screenplay and knows that he's gonna survive and wind up, you know, wind up in a

00:27:41   floating spacecraft making out with a beautiful woman at the very end of the movie. Like, and so

00:27:47   no matter how dire his circumstances, he really was like, I'm not gonna worry about this. I got it.

00:27:55   Yeah. I don't know. Nothing more on the Bond thing. Anything else on that? We're not gonna

00:28:04   going to make the many questions at this pace, but there's a big topic. Let me take the first break

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00:29:39   uh...

00:29:40   what are you any questions pop out to you

00:29:43   man how he

00:29:44   asked about uh... dream laptop

00:29:46   mmm basically

00:29:47   mmm that's a good question i got that that was him

00:29:51   uh... you'd want to go first

00:29:53   uh...

00:29:56   i think that the best laptop i feel like i've had best mac

00:29:59   laptop I feel like I've had was the 11 inch Air for me. He was saying something about

00:30:07   building it from scratch so but I'm not sure I can do that in my head. And I feel like

00:30:15   looking back I feel like I maybe would have been happy with the 13 inch maybe more even

00:30:20   though I stuck with the 11 inch and loved it for so long. I do like a slightly bigger

00:30:24   screen. So I think I'm kind of thinking like something that

00:30:27   would be the current 13 inch MacBook Air. But with a, you

00:30:34   know, a keyboard that actually, you know, a scissoring keyboard

00:30:37   instead of the butterfly. Yeah, both for feel and for reliability.

00:30:42   Right. And and no, yeah, no, no touch bar. But But yes, with the

00:30:48   touch ID. Hmm. I would say, I'll start out by saying this, I bought, I own two computers

00:30:57   right now, an iMac, which I'm in front of right now, and a 13-inch MacBook Pro, and

00:31:02   I bought both of them in 2014, so they're now both five years old. I've been thinking

00:31:07   about this a lot, I should write it up for Daring Fireball. I'm not even sure which

00:31:10   one I would rank first or second, but they're clearly the two best Macs I've ever bought

00:31:15   in my life. And they have both served me incredibly well with incredible reliability. They both

00:31:21   still feel fast to me. I suspect the MacBook Pro in particular, like when I last summer,

00:31:28   I spent six weeks on a review unit of the then new 15 inch MacBook Pro, and I definitely

00:31:34   could feel that some things were faster. So I suspect I'm, I'm, it's my lack of, you know,

00:31:44   Once you go to a faster machine, it's not so much that it feels faster

00:31:47   It's that when you go back to the old one it feels slow

00:31:49   So I suspect that there, you know, I'll probably really replace that MacBook Pro first, but my iMac

00:31:54   I can't think of anything that's slow. It's just unbelievable machine. I

00:31:58   Love that MacBook Pro. It's a 13 inch 2014 MacBook Pro

00:32:04   It's a little thick by today's standards compared to the current 13 inch MacBook Pro, but it's got I

00:32:10   The SD card slot I use I use rarely but when I do use it like on vacation to offload

00:32:17   Photos from a quote-unquote real camera to keep the SD card on the camera free for shooting more photos and video

00:32:26   You know it do I have could I put a dongle in my backpack?

00:32:30   I think I have one that's USB C so that I can connect it to like an iPad or something

00:32:34   I don't know. I've got a lot of dongles in my backpack, but it's nice not to have to fish around for it

00:32:39   It is nice to have more USB ports than I need it is nice. I love magsafe

00:32:46   I really find that in hindsight to be such a curious

00:32:51   Regression I like I like magsafe too, but I am

00:32:56   Probably just as happy with USB C for power because well for several reasons

00:33:02   I do like switching being able to switch sides, you know any port

00:33:04   I mean like if I'm in a hurry I can I can fumble around and find a port and I don't need to care

00:33:09   which one it is, which was not really that much of a problem with MagSafe

00:33:13   obviously because it would find it pretty much on its own. But the thing

00:33:18   that I like the most is being able to get other chargers that I can rely on.

00:33:24   Because getting MagSafe, getting you know non-Apple MagSafe chargers was

00:33:29   not a good idea. Right, right. And so you were basically stuck getting

00:33:34   an Apple branded one and you know and they're like 70 bucks or something. Right

00:33:38   You're always worried that it's gonna be like one of those sparking space guns. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna blow up in your face

00:33:42   So, um, it's nice being able to get other power options for like, you know, you can get a good one for 40 bucks

00:33:48   Most yeah, I totally accept that there's a trade-off there on

00:33:52   Universality and you know and being able to share a charger between iPad and MacBook

00:33:59   You know like on vacation just earlier this month Amy didn't even know she did mean she's a normal person

00:34:05   So she doesn't pay attention, but she was very very pleased that Jonas's

00:34:10   MacBook Air from last year uses the same charger as her iPad Pro so

00:34:15   He could charge overnight and then she could just plug it in while we went out for the day

00:34:20   You know and it's what just one less plug littering your own. Yeah

00:34:25   So I'm except the demise of magsafe. I miss it

00:34:30   But what I would want in a new laptop is first and foremost, I would want a keyboard that has a good feel

00:34:35   I want yeah, and I I

00:34:37   Just write so much on my MacBook

00:34:41   I just want the keyboard to feel great and I don't like the feel of the butterfly ones and I know some people do but

00:34:48   I know I want more travel

00:34:49   Yeah

00:34:51   Other than that, I guess the other thing he asked about his touchscreen or no. No, I I don't want to touch

00:34:58   I thought that's what you're saying.

00:35:00   No, I really don't.

00:35:00   I'm on the fence.

00:35:01   I guess I'm on the fence.

00:35:02   The only reason I think yes maybe

00:35:04   is because every once in a while after using my iPad,

00:35:08   I will have to resist the urge to touch the screen to do

00:35:11   something on the MacBook.

00:35:14   Well, I mean, we could do a whole episode on it.

00:35:17   But I don't want a touch screen.

00:35:18   And I realize--

00:35:19   And you can't just put the touch screen on.

00:35:21   You have to redesign the operating system.

00:35:24   Right.

00:35:24   Just the red, yellow, green buttons alone,

00:35:27   Just to name the yes obvious thing. They're too small and too close to each other for touch, right?

00:35:32   And I don't want the interface. I don't mean to be too dismissive of the iOS look and feel but I don't want it to be

00:35:39   Fisher priced

00:35:41   Just to accommodate touch that I I won't even use, you know

00:35:45   I like the density and the smallness of the controls of a mouse driven interface, so I would say no to a touchscreen

00:35:51   I

00:35:53   Hope I really really hope

00:35:56   So I want a better keyboard. I think I want better battery life than what?

00:36:00   Apple's current MacBook pros are offering and that might just be waiting for arm as opposed to Intel

00:36:07   I don't know I

00:36:09   Have no complaints about the display especially now that they have true tone across the board

00:36:15   I guess if they shrunk the bezels, which I think is what they're doing with this rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro

00:36:21   I'm guessing that I've said this before

00:36:24   I'm guessing that that's just a replacement for the 15 inch and that they're just keeping the footprint roughly the same and

00:36:30   Making the display go more closer to the closer to the corners making it 16 inches instead of 15 and it's like already

00:36:38   15.4 inches or 15 point something inches, so it's actually not even like a full inch to make it

00:36:44   Yeah, I get you know

00:36:47   Yeah, but the other thing that I really hope Apple is doing is I really hope that they are taking to heart the I

00:36:55   would say the consensus on the touch bar is

00:36:59   ambivalent at best

00:37:01   And I suspect the people who like it the most are generally silent and it's the people who really dislike it who are vocal

00:37:10   But at least judging from the comments I see

00:37:14   It is not it has not been well received

00:37:17   I

00:37:19   I don't hate it. Like I said, I spent 64 weeks either, but I don't love it

00:37:24   So I really would do you how do you have it? How do you have your set? Do you have it?

00:37:28   Well, I don't have one in front of me

00:37:30   I'd like the last time I used it was like I said six the six weeks I spent on a MacBook Pro a year ago

00:37:34   And I I more or less used it as it was

00:37:36   factories as it was designed see the thing that the thing that I don't I can't get in on is

00:37:42   the idea that you're gonna go into every single app

00:37:45   that you have and customize the touch bar.

00:37:47   I mean, I can see that there are some people

00:37:50   who probably use certain apps,

00:37:52   professional digital editing apps all the time

00:37:56   who might do that.

00:37:58   I don't work that way and the writing apps that I use

00:38:03   don't have that many special features

00:38:05   that I feel like I need special buttons for them.

00:38:07   So I basically turned it into,

00:38:11   just the regular function buttons that what the functions were for on a mac so instead of having

00:38:19   you know the f numbers it's just the icons for you know volume up and down and that kind of thing

00:38:26   and that's uh i like that i mean and there's in i can the nice thing is i i have a keychron

00:38:35   keyboard that I use and I basically now have that that the the function keys on that are similar in that they are

00:38:43   Dedicated max style function keys and I can set up the touch bar basically to look exactly like that

00:38:51   So now I you know when I have the keyboard plugged in and I'm using it. It's the same thing

00:38:55   I I just basically I sincerely hope that Apple is has

00:38:58   internalized the public's ambivalence towards the touch bar and is working on a a

00:39:04   major

00:39:06   Rethinking like I think as a fundamental idea

00:39:08   It's a brilliant idea and I think the idea of having all of our keyboards lined up with 12 of these F F keys from

00:39:15   1978 is is odd and I think it's very odd that

00:39:20   that we we collectively but led by Apple have sort of repurposed them with these icons and they're all sort of

00:39:28   it's just

00:39:31   It's fiddly and just seems outdated

00:39:34   And so I think the idea of making it a touch little touchscreen integrated above the keyboard is a great idea

00:39:40   But I really think that it it's it needs like a huge 2.0 like a yeah

00:39:45   I agree, but just a serious rethinking and I don't even know what that is

00:39:50   I'm not creative enough to think of it, but I would know it if I saw it

00:39:53   I kind of feel like the other thing too is I feel like they made a mistake by not keeping the escape key as a hardware

00:39:59   key

00:40:01   And it's a little thing but because like maybe a lot of people never never ever use the escape key

00:40:06   But people who do use the escape key use it a lot and making it this thing that doesn't actually click is

00:40:12   You know leads to people touching the wrong thing and I think that symmetry wise it could work

00:40:18   By being symmetric with the touch ID button that's on the other side

00:40:25   Maybe wider. Yeah, but basically I would just want a

00:40:28   Something like the 13 inch MacBook Pro

00:40:31   Maybe with a display that goes closer to the edges better keyboard at least for USB C ports and a improved touch bar

00:40:39   Yeah

00:40:42   That's about it. It's not very I kind of feel like the form factor is basically, you know doesn't need to radical change

00:40:49   Yeah

00:40:52   What else do we have here? Let's see. You see this story that came out today where

00:40:56   Apple contractors quote regularly here confidential details on Siri recordings The Guardian had a story. No. No, I did not

00:41:04   When you got back to me well, it's just you know, it sounds bad but it's I I don't think I

00:41:15   Don't think anybody that does that. I don't think anybody has their recording sent to Apple without opting into it

00:41:22   Like, I regularly, I regularly –

00:41:25   But I think it is the kind of thing that everybody's been saying about Amazon and Google and had

00:41:30   not come out about Apple, and Apple is making much more of a marketing angle on privacy

00:41:40   than the others who are.

00:41:42   Yeah, I kind of feel like they need to come clean about it and be as transparent as possible,

00:41:47   but I don't think there's any way to get those improvements without somebody listening

00:41:51   it and I just think they just need to make sure that they're like if there is

00:41:57   some path I don't know the details enough to really comment at length here

00:42:01   but if there's a path where somebody goes in to the Apple Store buys an

00:42:07   iPhone sets it up and really on you know just without any sort of it could could

00:42:16   very easily not understand that the OK buttons and continue buttons that they've pressed

00:42:23   are allowing their anonymized Siri recordings to be sent to Apple. I think that's a problem.

00:42:27   I just think it needs to be as crystal clear as possible that if you click this, your recordings

00:42:33   might be sent in a completely anonymized fashion to Apple. And here's a learn more button where

00:42:39   you can go and get the full Craig Federighi differential privacy mathematical explanation

00:42:45   of how they're ensuring that they're anonymized and can't be, you know, give people a way

00:42:50   to, if you really want to go deep on it and figure out how we're doing this in a way that

00:42:54   is private, we'll tell you everything. But if you just want to take our word for it,

00:42:59   hit this button. And if you know you want to opt out, hit this button. And as long as

00:43:02   that's going on, I'm okay with it. Because I don't see how it's possible. And I think

00:43:07   I've been fairly consistent on this that I haven't really criticized the Amazon or Google

00:43:12   so much for this. Although the stories about Amazon seem a little fishier about the degree

00:43:18   to which employees are listening and maybe can even reverse, you know, figure out, you

00:43:25   know, that this was John Gruber in the, you know, one nine one four seven zip code in

00:43:30   Philadelphia. You know, who said this goofy thing? You got to come over and listen to

00:43:36   this guy but I you know I don't think it's possible otherwise I just think

00:43:44   they just need to be transparent here we go how about this somebody can't find it

00:43:53   somebody was asking about the the leaks of the new iPhone supposedly coming out

00:43:58   in September and do we think they're horrible the look of them yeah well and

00:44:04   presumably this is all based around the the big square camera back as opposed to the

00:44:10   What would you call it a pill a capsule sized one that we've had for the last few years, right?

00:44:15   but the most but everything that we've seen so far is

00:44:18   Basically a mock-up based on case designs, right? Yes very much

00:44:25   So we don't the thing that we don't really know is the sort of fit and finish of the whole thing

00:44:29   Yeah

00:44:29   because I've seen a whole bunch of these things and it looks terrible in certain circumstances

00:44:34   in certain you know depending on how you render it this is Santiago Santiago Dawson the leak

00:44:41   design for the iPhone 11 seemed hideous no he calls it the iPhone 11 with roman numerals god

00:44:49   almighty I hope they get rid of the roman numerals here's my thing I will admit that

00:44:55   I don't think it looks good to have a big square camera thing on the back,

00:44:59   but the camera is so essential and so useful and I rely on it ever more and more as my primary

00:45:10   camera that I'm okay with it. And I kind of feel like it's the inevitable consequence of the,

00:45:17   the, the first step towards this was just making the, what was it? The iPhone six that had the

00:45:24   first camera bump. I think so where it was still just a little, little tiny circle. Like, like,

00:45:31   even now with the iPhone 10 and 10, our antennas and these cameras, it's like to think that we

00:45:35   that including me, I have to admit, I gave that camera bump an awful lot of snark just because

00:45:42   it bothered me, because you know, it should be flush. But the the way that photography works,

00:45:50   having more distance, even a little fraction of an inch from the front of the lens to the sensor,

00:45:55   you know, makes things better. Um, right. So, and so the only alternative is making the whole thing

00:46:02   thicker. Right. And I don't think that's worthwhile. I really don't. And I think it's in the real world

00:46:09   when you, when you appreciate the enormous percentage of people who keep their iPhones in a

00:46:14   case at all times. The bump isn't a bump. So I feel like the bump, it's time to get over it.

00:46:21   I'm over it because I know that it makes the photography better. I get such amazing photos

00:46:26   from my iPhone. Even when I go on vacation and I take a quote unquote real camera and then I come

00:46:31   back and I do like the sort of triage of just at least getting rid of the garbage shots or if

00:46:36   there's like if I took four shots of the same scene, figure out which one's the best and get

00:46:40   get rid of the other three. I am still occasionally like, Oh, I

00:46:45   must have taken this one with my Fuji. And then I'm like, Oh,

00:46:47   nope, I was the iPhone. Unbelievable. I'm blown away

00:46:51   by it. I think it's necessary. I think adding a third lens, which

00:46:54   is what they're rumouring. You know, rumors are saying why the

00:46:58   camera unit on the back is getting better is a good thing.

00:47:02   I think because I it's just a, you know, the funny nature of

00:47:06   trying to make these incredibly slim devices by the standards of cameras into serious cameras.

00:47:14   When you buy a point-and-shoot camera that has a zoom feature where you can go wider or long,

00:47:23   the lens comes out like two inches from the camera. You can't do that with a single lens at

00:47:31   a phone device thickness. And so using multiple lenses wider to longer and then having the

00:47:38   software switch between them as you zoom is ingenious, but it necessitates making this

00:47:44   a little bit more awkward. But I think it's a trade off well worth making. And I think,

00:47:47   you know, we've seen leaks of like Google's upcoming Pixel 4, which has a very, very similar

00:47:53   design where the camera unit is a big square with three lenses. It's a trade off worth

00:47:59   making for better photography, whether it makes the device look

00:48:01   ugly or not, but we'll get used to it.

00:48:03   The Yeah, it's like he just says that most of it, he puts the

00:48:07   camera in a case. The only thing I can think of was what, what if

00:48:11   they made an iPhone where the case was already on the iPhone?

00:48:14   Hmm, where everything would be flush, but it's it's not like,

00:48:19   it's protection rather than

00:48:21   Yeah, I can't, I can't

00:48:24   the only reason I think that they couldn't, they well, I

00:48:26   mean, I think the Emily, they want to do that in the first

00:48:28   place because they want they want to ship a device that's as

00:48:30   slim as possible. But the other reason I would think is that the

00:48:33   materials right that are protective are not going to last

00:48:37   as long. Right. And then and then you have an iPhone that

00:48:41   looks like crap. Yeah. And and I think people would still put

00:48:45   cases on them. I really do. I know I really do. And it's, you

00:48:50   know, it's very reasonable. I, I generally, I was thinking they

00:48:55   would sell it that way. You know, they would sell it like we

00:48:58   put the case on for you. Yeah. And I,

00:49:00   people wouldn't believe it or they wouldn't trust it and they,

00:49:02   and they really want to keep their 800,

00:49:06   $900 purchase pristine. Right.

00:49:08   And so they're still going to want to put a case on the case if,

00:49:12   especially if they can do it with a $10 case, right. That,

00:49:16   that they don't care if it gets scuffed up. And then if it,

00:49:18   if it gets like really, really scuffed up,

00:49:22   you just snap it off and buy another $10 case. Yeah.

00:49:25   I guarantee you if Apple did that people would put cases on them and it would just be way

00:49:30   thicker and Johnny I've on his island in retirement just sob sob silently people just keep putting

00:49:41   causing and turning in his bed of money anything that pops out to you Cletus fetus okay I didn't

00:49:50   want to say the name but I have to give him credit asked about pricing that

00:49:59   there is a $329 iPad but Apple does not make a $329 phone hmm and why not make a

00:50:11   329 phone with bezels or whatever you have to do yeah I wonder about that I

00:50:16   I mean, I find it interesting that the iPad, because we got my father-in-law an iPad for,

00:50:23   you know, the cheap iPad for Father's Day, because his old one was acting funky.

00:50:29   And it's a really nice device for not very much.

00:50:33   It is a really, really nice device for $329.

00:50:36   Yeah, and it was on sale at Costco for like $250 or something.

00:50:41   When they came out with that, when was that?

00:50:43   October?

00:50:44   I forget.

00:50:45   Or maybe it was like a year. I thought it was really a year. Yeah, like and maybe like off

00:50:51   Yeah, and maybe like like March or April or something like that. Yeah, and they had they didn't have an event

00:50:57   they just had like press briefings and I went to the ones in New York and talked to people from the iPad team and

00:51:03   Basically, that's that's kind of what it came down to and they you know, they added pencil support

00:51:11   And basically what it came down to is this is a this is definitely not the best iPad the iPad pros

00:51:17   Absolutely hold their own justify. You know they're much higher prices, but this is a really nice

00:51:22   $329 device like really really nice and and really money fast right the only complaints everything it just it just has a you know

00:51:31   An older look yeah, yeah the only complaints you can really have about it are the basic fundamental complaints about the iPad OS

00:51:38   Which you know Apple is as hopefully tackled you know with iPad OS 13 this year

00:51:44   But really every the only serious complaints you can have about this device come down to the OS and I think for typical users

00:51:52   Who really do use it in?

00:51:55   You know I think the people who really care about multitasking and two documents at once and doing things side by side are all sort

00:52:01   Of the sort of people who are going to lean towards an iPad Pro

00:52:03   I think the sort of typical people like my dad

00:52:08   my mom who both really really

00:52:10   Really get along well on their iPad, right? They

00:52:14   You know, they'll call me every once in a while with weird problems with their Mac

00:52:17   Even just the stupid things like, you know, the the mail icon isn't in the dock anymore

00:52:21   Although the Apple sort of fixed that a few years ago where they made it like you have to drag like a couple inches off

00:52:26   The dock to get an app out of there

00:52:28   But just you know, they get confused by the Mac sometimes

00:52:32   Whereas I they never ever call me with anything to do with their iPad and they'd you know, they just use it the way

00:52:37   You know it was used from 2011 on where it's just one one nap at a time

00:52:42   Boy that 329 one is so nice. It just has just about everything you could want yeah

00:52:48   Why does it why no phone? I don't know I was listening to ATP

00:52:53   I don't know if it was the most recent episode or the second most recent and Marco was talking about wanting a

00:53:00   This is right up your alley a

00:53:05   four inch iPhone for testing overcast layout and

00:53:11   You know Marco being Marco

00:53:15   I think he was at his beach house and so he didn't want to go home and get one that he already had

00:53:18   He wanted a beach house one and a house house

00:53:24   well

00:53:24   And I think the other angle was that his four inch testing device was like an iPhone 5s and the 5s is dropping

00:53:30   Either has dropped off or is dropping off this year from the still supports the latest OS chain

00:53:36   And so he wanted to get an iPhone SE as the last

00:53:40   You know latest and greatest four inch phone and would have at least another year or two ahead of it

00:53:47   you know for keeping up with the OS and so we went on Amazon and bought a

00:53:51   I

00:53:53   Don't think it was refurbished. There's a different word

00:53:57   But you know basically he got like a used iPhone used on SE

00:54:02   And it was it was like I forget what he paid, but it was really cheap

00:54:07   It was like $200 or 220 or something like that and he said then it's great

00:54:11   You know and it's it's you know all the ways that you could you John Moltz could wax poetic about the thinness lightness

00:54:18   Pocketability and just pleasure the straight sides everything is like you know this is just really really nice

00:54:24   So I kind of feel like Apple's strategy for years really almost

00:54:29   You know dating back to the you know

00:54:33   When people first started upgrading iPhones in the first place around the 3GS or the iPhone 4

00:54:38   it's always sort of been the cheap iPhone is just an older iPhone and

00:54:43   What the fundamental

00:54:47   Thinking behind that strategy is I would love to know I love to get Tim Cook to open up about that

00:54:53   But you know good luck good luck getting them to explain

00:54:57   What they're thinking there, I guess Schiller would probably be the better person to you know, if we could drug him and

00:55:03   Get some bond James Bond true serum into sure yeah, Phil Schiller and figure out what their strategy is there

00:55:14   But I really do feel like there are three hundred and twenty nine dollar iPhones to be had that are really good devices

00:55:20   But they're you know, iPhone 7s and iPhone SEs and stuff. So the seven yeah, the seven's 450

00:55:26   But I think you could get a really good one

00:55:29   For 300 bucks with a trade-in right which most people probably have

00:55:33   Maybe I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's not yeah, I feel like it like that

00:55:39   It's not terribly far off, but that's an old phone now, right? That's a pretty old phone. Right? Is that whereas that iPad is?

00:55:47   brand spanking new really right and has like not top of the line but but real new and has a recent a series processor that

00:55:54   Has a healthy number of years of iOS updates ahead of it

00:55:58   Which is something you're not gonna get if you buy an iPhone SE

00:56:01   I think the iPhone SE really is I think iOS 13 is probably it. That's probably the last one. Yeah, I would think so

00:56:07   You know, so who knows I don't know it. It's an interesting difference between the iPad and and the iPhone

00:56:14   I mean the iPads different in a lot of ways the Mac is sort of in the same boat or you know

00:56:18   Why doesn't why is the cheapest Mac? It's now $1,100 because they

00:56:23   They didn't completely get rid of the 999 MacBook Air the non retina one it's but it's no longer sold at retail

00:56:32   It's only available like through education and like the the quote unquote channel

00:56:37   So I think you could still buy them at like Best Buy or something like that

00:56:40   But you could go into an Apple store the cheapest Mac is the $1,100 MacBook Air, so why don't they make a $400 Mac?

00:56:47   I don't you know I guess the what he caught the Mac Mini is a little cheaper, but you have to get a display

00:56:53   Yeah

00:56:55   Yeah, it's in some ways. It's not in some ways

00:56:58   It's not the iPhone that sticks out for not having a quote unquote cheap the iPad version

00:57:02   It's the iPad because yeah because it does

00:57:04   right

00:57:06   The iPad the 329 iPad is the one that's abnormal

00:57:09   Yeah. I mean, I wonder if they are just they wanted to move more units of iPads.

00:57:14   Maybe.

00:57:16   And I know because the because they had I mean, they had a definite problem.

00:57:19   Right.

00:57:20   While moving iPad units.

00:57:22   Yeah.

00:57:23   And never really I mean, you know, iPhone units have topped out. Sure. But they've

00:57:27   always been fairly consistent.

00:57:30   Yeah

00:57:32   Chris Lakata asks will we see AMD CPUs in max before the arm transition?

00:57:40   That's an interesting question. So the basic

00:57:42   Premise behind this and I'm I don't think you're in the same boat as me, you know, I

00:57:48   Long ago years ago stopped keeping up with the intricacies of Intel's roadmap. Yeah, I

00:57:55   Just can't be bothered. I'm too old

00:57:58   It's too too boring. All I know is that Intel has been slow and I know I know they're slow

00:58:04   But are you going nobody going to a stones concert keeps up on Intel? I?

00:58:07   Do know though that you know and I just can't be and their names confuse me

00:58:13   You know like you can get a core i5 that might be faster than a core i7 and I don't know how that's possible

00:58:19   Who gives a crap? I just want good CPUs that are power efficient. I know that thinner

00:58:26   Fabrication is better and it makes things more, you know, it's just better in every way

00:58:31   So going from 11 nanometer to 9 nanometer to 7 nanometer. It's all good

00:58:36   It's all you know

00:58:37   and apples a series chips are doing a tremendous job at that and Intel is just

00:58:42   Ever slipping behind on this and that in the x86 world where there's really only two two competitors Intel and AMD

00:58:51   AMD is apparently kicking Intel's ass and like a lot of people who care about

00:58:56   You know get the gamers, you know the gaming PC, you know thing is AMD is apparently doing very very well in that arena. I

00:59:04   Just would be very surprised to for them to come out with AMD

00:59:09   CPUs and even even if they

00:59:13   Well, I don't know. I I think the arm transition is inevitable but at at some point it we all become Gene Munster

00:59:22   Talking about Apple making a TV set right where we're all on these podcasts for years now

00:59:27   Saying I think Apple is gonna. You know Apple's a arm team is obviously kicking ass. They're doing an amazing job

00:59:35   They're keeping the phone somehow

00:59:37   Years ahead of their top competition in the Android world

00:59:41   And they're doing it year after year every single year Johnny

00:59:47   Saruji's chip team is coming out with new a series chips right on time

00:59:53   ready to be announced in early September ready to ship mid to late September and

00:59:58   every year they are showing some sort of

01:00:01   terrific gains in

01:00:04   CPU or GPU or power performance every single year like

01:00:10   Clockwork it is not just one of the best teams at Apple

01:00:15   But I would say one of the best teams in the entire world of technology period is Johnny

01:00:21   Sirigy's chip team and so it does seem inevitable that they're gonna switch the Mac to them especially now

01:00:27   you know like the the

01:00:30   the rumor-mongering or just the pure speculation with no in birdies or anybody telling us anything just this sort of

01:00:38   lick your finger stick it in the wind and see what you think is gonna happen like

01:00:42   When the iPad started creeping up on the MacBooks in benchmark performance

01:00:47   We you know, it seemed like well, this is inevitable

01:00:50   But now they're they're smoking them right like an iPad Pro is as a computing device way faster

01:00:57   Than like MacBook pros or maybe not the 15-inch. I don't know

01:01:00   I guess you can probably max out of 15 inch but for the most part most

01:01:04   iPads are faster than most MacBooks being sold. So why wouldn't they switch? It's complicated.

01:01:09   But I don't see them switching to AMD. I feel like they've kind of got a relationship with

01:01:13   Intel and until they make that switch, that's what we got.

01:01:18   Yeah. If they're going to work on one thing, they would probably work on that rather than

01:01:24   spend a bunch of time doing something else.

01:01:26   Here's a guy named bop bop bop.

01:01:28   And the username is Disco Hootie. He asks us to choose. I'm not sure this is a weird question.

01:01:37   A desktop and a laptop. B a desktop and an iPad.

01:01:43   C a laptop and iPad or D desktop, laptop and iPad. I feel like D is is cheating and should be removed.

01:01:54   Yeah, exactly. I know. I think because that's, that's what I'd pick because that's what I have.

01:01:58   Yeah, why not? And why not give us an extra choice of having both an iPad and an iPad mini?

01:02:02   Right? Just just, you know, we're gonna do the we're gonna do this. Do you ever hear the story

01:02:10   about Frank Sinatra's writer late in his career? Frank Sinatra's writer, or at least one of the

01:02:15   I don't who knows how long it was probably like 13 pages. But one of the details of Frank Sinatra's

01:02:20   Ryder was that he wanted in his hotel room. There's probably a sweet

01:02:26   Forget his brand of cigarettes, but he wanted and it's to say they were Winston's he wanted a

01:02:33   complete fresh pack of Winston's already opened

01:02:37   With one of the cigarettes popped out and a and a complete matchbook

01:02:43   Next to each one all no further than five five feet apart from each other so that wherever he was in the hotel suite

01:02:50   He was within five feet of a fresh pack of Winston cigarettes with a complete matchbook

01:02:56   That's you know, we could do that with our iPads, right?

01:03:00   We could just you know

01:03:01   Just why don't we have why don't we have one everywhere in the house?

01:03:04   Put them five feet away from each other and all signed into your iCloud account pick it up

01:03:07   We were so I kind of feel like you have to you know

01:03:10   The thing that I've the thing that I've struggled with over my entire

01:03:13   computing lifetime has been the question of whether you get a

01:03:20   Powerful desktop and a like a really lightweight, right?

01:03:23   Laptop that can't do everything the desktop can but can go play everywhere right you want it to go or you get

01:03:31   Maybe two that are more

01:03:34   comparable

01:03:36   Whether you need the desktop whether you need the desktop or not. Maybe you don't need the desktop

01:03:39   maybe you just get a super powerful laptop and

01:03:41   I keep going I go back and forth on that depending on

01:03:45   What's available I guess yeah

01:03:49   and I'd like when I so I bought this MacBook Pro in 2016 when the first when those came out and I

01:03:55   Still don't know the I still don't have a good answer. I

01:03:59   My answer is complicated and highly personal to my specific needs right now where

01:04:07   And I don't want to go into the details of it and it's all gonna be fine

01:04:13   But my eyesight is is a bit in a strange place and I can see up close

01:04:18   close perfectly and I really struggle to see at arm's length distance. So I use my iMac

01:04:26   right now very little because I really have trouble seeing the screen. So for me personally

01:04:32   right now I would go laptop and iPad because the iPad for me is somebody who really needs

01:04:42   to hold the screen really close to my face to read right now or at least to read comfortably

01:04:47   is absolutely fee nominal. It is. I, if I had,

01:04:52   if I had run into this same vision problem 10 years ago,

01:04:56   I don't know what I would do.

01:04:57   I guess I would make do with a laptop and get really close to the screen.

01:05:01   But, uh,

01:05:03   without even getting into the software sides of accessibility, the,

01:05:09   the hardware aspects of accessibility for someone who needs to get close to a

01:05:14   screen of an iPad that's so lightweight,

01:05:17   It's just absolutely phenomenal.

01:05:20   So I would pick that right now.

01:05:23   If and when my eyesight goes back to working better

01:05:27   at arm's length, I would go desktop and laptop

01:05:32   and skip the iPad if I only had to have two.

01:05:34   - Yeah, I think I have to have an iPad.

01:05:38   - See, I don't have to have an iPad.

01:05:39   Although I kind of do right now,

01:05:41   just be for the vision reasons, but not for usability.

01:05:44   - I do all my reading on an iPad.

01:05:46   Yeah, I do almost all of it and especially if it's longer and and I use that that continuity feature where if I encounter a

01:05:55   Longish article and this is good

01:05:56   I do that

01:05:57   You know share and then you just turn your iPad screen on and jump it over there and it just opens up which I love

01:06:02   I

01:06:04   Do a tremendous amount of reading on the iPad well good news though your your vision may get better

01:06:10   Because that's that happened to me. Oh, it's definitely my farcet in this got better

01:06:16   And it was weird because I was having a lot of trouble seeing things up close and I was thinking,

01:06:22   "Oh no, my near vision is getting worse." And I was having to take reading glasses with me to,

01:06:28   you know, mostly to like restaurants and bars and stuff because I couldn't read the bill at the end.

01:06:35   And so I'm like, you know, coming the end of the night, I got to pull out my grandpa glasses and

01:06:39   look at the bill. And then I go to the eye doctor and she said, "Oh, that's because your

01:06:44   Prescription is not working for you anymore because your farce and this is getting better. So now you're it's overcompensating, right?

01:06:50   So I got a new prescription and now I don't need the cheaters anymore

01:06:52   Yeah, I had the same thing refer like to two years

01:06:56   I needed reading glasses especially for bars and any anything dark, but I really needed him for reading and now I don't

01:07:03   But it's a long story. I've been basically I haven't I have a good eye and a bad eye and my good eye now has a

01:07:09   cataract

01:07:11   So it's it's actually not very good right now

01:07:14   But the good news about cataract is you can have cataract surgery and it's not perfect

01:07:18   Yeah, but you know so then when I say that my vision might get better

01:07:22   It would be after I have cataract surgery, which I'm delaying as long as I can. But anyway,

01:07:26   very personal

01:07:29   Here's a football question over/under for ten wins for the Dallas Cowboys this year. That's from Richard Stovall

01:07:34   I'm gonna go over but I'm that's for you. I have no opinion

01:07:39   Weighing in on that I've been optimistic on the Cowboys for 20 years now and yeah

01:07:45   Hasn't worked out for you. I wouldn't I wouldn't take this advice to Vegas Richard I

01:07:50   Would actually I would take this you probably would I would not advise anybody listening to me to do

01:07:56   Somebody asks, I can't really it's a very strange username will Apple's design language change now that Johnny I've has left

01:08:07   I think inevitably a little bit I there's some people on Twitter who seem to object to my I

01:08:21   think Apple is going to be fine without Johnny I've take you know that accusing me of a sort of

01:08:28   doesn't matter what happens to Apple I'm going to John Gruber is going to say that's fine that's

01:08:33   good for Apple and you know I feel like it's it misses a lot of new I feel like

01:08:41   most things in life that are interesting and worth talking about or writing about

01:08:44   there's a lot of nuance and but long story short I basically feel that I've

01:08:53   inordinate influence in the post Steve Jobs Apple it you know it's been a good

01:09:01   Apple's been fine without him right where nobody's really the whole Apple is doomed without Steve Jobs thing is over now

01:09:07   It's they're doomed without Johnny I've but yeah

01:09:10   Even though we even though we hated their design for the last

01:09:14   Right eight years or whatever. I just feel though that

01:09:18   His singular vision is a bit off in a couple of ways and it's been to the detriment of

01:09:25   Apple's design and

01:09:29   Again, you know designed by committee is never good but getting something with more of a consensus view is probably going to be good

01:09:36   For Apple, so I kind of feel and you know the rumor

01:09:40   rumor chain

01:09:43   Sort of suggests that this is already true. You know that that that the rumors strongly suggest

01:09:49   That either late this year or early next year

01:09:52   True revisions to the whole MacBook line are going to bring back

01:09:57   The scissor key a new scissor key designed to the keyboards which will have more travel and you know

01:10:05   Am I right do I know for a fact that the the butterfly keyboard can be pinned on Johnny?

01:10:12   I've I can't verify that but I mean that's basically what I've heard and knowing that his obsession with thinness and neatness and

01:10:19   Maybe a little bit too much emphasis on the way things look as opposed to how they work

01:10:26   It's hard not to think that it was

01:10:28   You know ultimately his decision

01:10:31   You know and there's rumors too that they're going to switch back to the upside down T for the arrow keys on the keyboards on it

01:10:38   You know the small keyboards

01:10:40   Which again I I will fully admit that the current keyboards which have full height

01:10:46   Left and right keys and half height up and down keys to fill in the keyboard

01:10:50   It absolutely looks better like the gaps on the keyboard that were caused by the upside down T arrangement

01:10:56   Didn't look right, but they certainly worked better because you could feel you feel your way around them better

01:11:03   You know and I wrote this on daring fireball. It's I think maybe when maybe when I've

01:11:09   Departure was announced but somewhat recently, you know that I feel like he's he has

01:11:15   Dilated Steve Jobs's design isn't how it looks it's how it works axiom in a few ways

01:11:20   And I feel like both on the software and hardware sides

01:11:23   In the last 10 years or 9 years, you know, however long it's been since

01:11:29   Since Steve died, I guess it was 2011. Yeah, that's 2011. I

01:11:34   Do think that Apple has veered a little bit to a little bit in the design is how it looks

01:11:41   Yeah area and I feel like it that because I've got two of these key

01:11:46   I've got two different keyboards are in front of me right now

01:11:47   one of them is the upside down T and then in the other one is the MacBook Pro 2016 and

01:11:52   It's like I think you really have to be looking at the upside down T too long to be like

01:12:00   Upset about the fact that there's gaps right above the left and undeniably works better in my opinion. Yeah

01:12:08   I mean I still say yeah, that's one of the things I struggle with with this keyboard. Yeah

01:12:11   All right. Let me take another break here and thank our next sponsor and it's our friends at Express VPN

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01:14:18   What else?

01:14:21   Here's a good question.

01:14:25   How close are you two to switching from Dropbox to iCloud Drive?

01:14:29   That's from R. Stevens, cartoonist extraordinaire.

01:14:33   I have to say, I don't think I've gotten

01:14:38   this Dropbox update yet that shows up in the dock.

01:14:41   I don't have it running in my dock, but there's apparently--

01:14:44   - I never saw it running in the dock.

01:14:45   I definitely got a new interface

01:14:46   in the dropdown menu though.

01:14:48   - Yeah, basically Dropbox is going to hell in a handbasket.

01:14:53   - It really is.

01:14:54   And again, I'm stealing from Marco here from ATP,

01:14:59   but basically, we collectively as users of Dropbox

01:15:04   have granted Dropbox extraordinary access to our computers.

01:15:09   When you install Dropbox,

01:15:10   you're letting it write to your file system,

01:15:13   you are letting it auto update itself.

01:15:15   Like Dropbox just runs in the background

01:15:18   and when it wants to update to a new version,

01:15:20   it just happens.

01:15:21   That's an extraordinary privilege to grant an application.

01:15:24   We collectively as Dropbox users,

01:15:27   and I suspect most people listening to the show

01:15:29   either use Dropbox or have used it extensively.

01:15:31   We've given them an awful lot of our trust

01:15:36   and I feel like they've abused it.

01:15:38   And I get it that they are venture capital backed

01:15:43   and that they're not just shooting

01:15:46   to be a nice little business

01:15:48   that collects a nice little bit of money from people

01:15:51   to have a folder that syncs across devices

01:15:54   and that they're shooting to be

01:15:56   a multi-gazillion-dollar conglomerate

01:16:00   that's up there with the tech giants

01:16:02   like Facebook and Google and Apple and Amazon.

01:16:04   And that they've raised a valuation

01:16:09   that makes just having a folder that syncs

01:16:12   for 10 bucks a month or something like that,

01:16:14   they're never gonna get there.

01:16:16   And so they're effectively,

01:16:17   all of these companies are effectively trying to build

01:16:20   an entire suite where you're gonna use Dropbox

01:16:23   for everything from your spreadsheets

01:16:26   and your word processing and your collaboration

01:16:29   and it's like Slack and video conferencing

01:16:31   and file sharing all in one.

01:16:34   I just want a folder that syncs, I really do.

01:16:36   And I get it that they've gone down this route

01:16:39   and we've all sort of known that that's what they,

01:16:42   they were raising all this money

01:16:43   and how long can this last as a nice little utility.

01:16:46   So I don't think anybody is shocked by this,

01:16:49   but it is very disappointing.

01:16:51   So I hope that iCloud's new shared folder feature,

01:16:56   which is coming this fall on Mac OS and iOS,

01:17:03   I hope it works as well as you would expect it to,

01:17:06   because if it does, then that's when I'm leaving Dropbox.

01:17:09   'Cause the one thing Dropbox has right now that I need

01:17:12   is the shared folder feature.

01:17:13   - And is that for, I mean, the only reason I use Dropbox now

01:17:19   is for sharing podcast files, basically.

01:17:22   - That's same here, and so I guess I could do it another way

01:17:26   so maybe I'll switch before that.

01:17:27   But I do also--

01:17:30   - But it's easy for that, and I've used it for years.

01:17:33   And I used to use it, I mean, I used to have all my

01:17:35   text files on it as well so that I could access them

01:17:39   from my iPhone and from my iPad

01:17:41   and whatever device I was using, and then they cut back

01:17:44   so they said no, you only get, and I'm not paying.

01:17:48   So I mean, I can't complain too much.

01:17:51   But I would pay a little bit if I was getting something

01:17:55   that I really wanted.

01:17:56   And they want more than what I feel

01:17:59   like I would get out of it.

01:18:00   And I can do the things that I need to do with iCloud.

01:18:03   So I have moved my MacBook.

01:18:05   I have a weird setup, admittedly.

01:18:08   I have an ancient MacBook here, a 2009 MacBook

01:18:11   that I usually do the recording for podcasts on that

01:18:14   just sits here to do that.

01:18:16   And that one is still on Dropbox for sharing

01:18:18   because the other people that I work with

01:18:21   are still on Dropbox.

01:18:23   And then I took Dropbox off my main machine,

01:18:26   which is this MacBook Pro.

01:18:27   - The other thing you can do, which is interesting,

01:18:30   is I use transmit from panic as a file transfer.

01:18:35   - Right, and so I still have our transmit set up

01:18:38   to use Dropbox, yeah.

01:18:39   - I'm guessing that some other file transfer apps

01:18:42   probably have the same thing,

01:18:44   but you can sign up, you know, sign in with your Dropbox credentials and transmit and then you can get your

01:18:48   Dropbox that way and just treat it like an FTP server FTP server, right?

01:18:53   And it's so you can still have shared folders and and if somebody does share something you can log in and still get your files

01:19:01   You know obviously more of a Mac thing than a iOS thing, but maybe there's a iOS solution for that as well

01:19:08   I guess you could just use the Dropbox app on iOS and you're not getting stuck with all the

01:19:13   You know, it's the Mac version that in Windows version that everybody's complaining about the iOS version. Thanks to the

01:19:19   You know sandboxing rules and various other rules of iOS

01:19:24   Can't really interfere with your daily

01:19:27   Computing as much so you can uninstall Dropbox from your Mac, but still remain in the Dropbox universe, which is my plan

01:19:35   Yeah

01:19:37   The thing that's right. That's what I mean what I did. Yeah the thing I don't like about

01:19:43   iCloud

01:19:45   For compared to Dropbox

01:19:47   I I like the idea of trusting Apple more than I trust Dropbox, especially just in terms of like not being annoying

01:19:54   but I I

01:19:57   Like the way that Dropbox

01:20:00   I guess they've added a couple of magic folders within your Dropbox folder over the years right like they want you to have a photos

01:20:06   folder inside your Dropbox

01:20:09   But there's not a lot right and I think you can even opt out of that so basically you know inside your Dropbox folder

01:20:16   It's all organized the way you want it organized

01:20:19   whereas iCloud Drive

01:20:22   Mm-hmm at the root level starts with a folder for every single app that is using iCloud Drive and

01:20:29   You know I'm not gonna go all John Siracusa

01:20:35   But I I do find it

01:20:39   I wish I had control over that.

01:20:41   I wish that there was-- just put them all inside an application

01:20:47   data folder.

01:20:48   Just say, inside iCloud Drive, there's

01:20:50   a folder called Application Data.

01:20:52   And then inside Application Data are all of these folders

01:20:55   that get created automatically for every single app.

01:20:59   I just kind of hate the fact that the root

01:21:01   level of my iCloud Drive has 33 folders.

01:21:05   That's crazy.

01:21:06   and only like two of those are the ones that I've made.

01:21:09   Yeah, there's two folders out of 33

01:21:14   are the ones that I made.

01:21:16   So I find that a little annoying compared to Dropbox.

01:21:19   But for me, iCloud Drive has been very solid,

01:21:21   although I'm not really using,

01:21:24   I've been spooked enough by developer friends

01:21:26   that I'm not even really beta testing

01:21:28   the iOS 13 stuff right now.

01:21:31   Just because I've heard--

01:21:32   - Yeah, I only heard that stuff after I upgraded one of them.

01:21:34   I mean, I have an old, I have an iPad Air 2,

01:21:37   and I put it on that.

01:21:39   So far, I've been lucky, but.

01:21:40   - Right, but the betas this summer have been buggy enough,

01:21:43   and I mean, they're doing really cool stuff with iCloud,

01:21:46   and every developer I've heard talking about this

01:21:49   is saying like, what they're doing is great,

01:21:51   and once they get the bugs worked out,

01:21:52   iCloud is gonna be better than ever,

01:21:54   but right now, in the middle of 2019 summer,

01:21:58   these betas can lose data in your iCloud folder,

01:22:02   even if you're only using it on a secondary device,

01:22:04   if you're signed into the same iCloud account.

01:22:09   So what you could do and probably should be doing

01:22:12   if you're testing it as a developer or whatever

01:22:14   is using like a secondary iCloud account.

01:22:18   But that would make it, I don't have any need for that.

01:22:20   I don't have any apps that I need to test.

01:22:22   If I don't have my real iCloud account,

01:22:24   the device isn't really useful to me.

01:22:26   I guess it would help if I had signed into my,

01:22:30   talk show account on the iPad I was doing the show from. I had just gone through uh

01:22:35   I was just yeah I can get back I can do it on my phone.

01:22:40   I kind of like this question you're at a fine cocktail establishment this is David Smith

01:22:46   okay with all the Apple execs you get up to buy your round what is each person's drink order oh

01:22:53   Interesting. Hmm. I feel like it's sort of like I'm maybe stereotyping to say that

01:23:02   Tim Cook's is a mid julep. I can see that or yeah.

01:23:07   But that was the first thing that came to me. I can see that. I'm gonna say Phil Schiller is a

01:23:12   white Russian. Like a little nutty, right? Yeah. Johnny, Johnny? What about Johnny Ive? Do we still

01:23:20   count, Jonny Ive? I think just a glass of cold water with no ice. Just cold water.

01:23:29   Well, but then that's not a cocktail. I was going to go with the—

01:23:31   Yeah, true.

01:23:32   I was going to go with like a gin martini.

01:23:34   Yeah, so then maybe a gin martini.

01:23:36   But stirred extraordinarily slowly so as to keep it as crystal clear as possible.

01:23:43   Mm-hmm.

01:23:44   Right?

01:23:44   Crystal clear.

01:23:45   How about Eddie? Oh, Eddie Q.

01:23:48   you. I don't know. Eddy Cue is a tough one. At a fine cocktail establishment. I'm gonna

01:24:04   say even at a fine cocktail establishment maybe Eddy Cue wants a six pack of beer.

01:24:09   I was thinking Eddie would want something that was really difficult to make. Yeah, maybe, maybe.

01:24:20   I was trying to think of something that's really hard to make. I think Craig Federighi would

01:24:24   probably be like the opposite. He'd be like, "Whatever's the easiest thing to make." Yeah,

01:24:27   right, right. Whatever you got is fine. Whatever you're having. Yeah, like somebody ordered,

01:24:34   whatever somebody orders right before him, he'll just be like, "Make it two. That'll be nice and

01:24:37   and easy. Right? Go along to get along. There's this old Martin Short movie, I can't remember

01:24:46   the name of it. It was like a TV movie. It was a comedy. And in the movie, everywhere he goes,

01:24:52   he orders this thing called a pouscafe. And every time the bartender is like, "Oh, God, really?"

01:25:01   It's like, "Yeah, yeah, I want to Poof's Cafe."

01:25:05   And you'd see the bartender in the back, and he's like, he's got a blender, and he's got

01:25:10   all this stuff, and in the foreground, you know, he's just having a conversation with

01:25:15   whoever he's talking to.

01:25:16   Poof's Cafe, that's a funny name.

01:25:19   I never heard of it.

01:25:20   Which apparently is a real thing, which I didn't know at the time.

01:25:23   This came out in the '80s.

01:25:25   I only saw it once.

01:25:27   How do you think you spell that?

01:25:30   P O U S S E dash C A F E, something like that. Let's see if that's the, if that comes up.

01:25:37   Is it complicated?

01:25:38   I'm trying to look. So it's like a dessert drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's got multiple

01:25:45   layers.

01:25:46   Oh God.

01:25:47   That's what it is. That's...

01:25:48   Oh my God.

01:25:49   It's not even like the list. It sounds terrible, really. It's grenadine maraschino liqueur,

01:25:58   Kremdemens, Kremda Violet, Yellow Chartreuse, and Brandy.

01:26:03   But it's layered, that's the, that's the, you know,

01:26:08   and you have to create a stripe, it creates a striped effect.

01:26:10   Right. Yeah. Painstaking. You know what? That, that wouldn't be ridiculous if,

01:26:15   if,

01:26:15   as the question presupposes that we're at a craft cocktail facility,

01:26:19   you're not really putting them out.

01:26:20   It is a major pet peeve of mine when you're at a busy bar,

01:26:27   Let's say standing room only and you've got to order between standing sitting

01:26:32   guests at the bar. It's a pet peeve of mine when somebody asks for a,

01:26:36   a difficult to drink, difficult to, or not even difficult,

01:26:41   but, but multi-step

01:26:42   when the bartender is obviously, uh,

01:26:48   over taxed by the number of requests coming in. Yeah. Like, Hey,

01:26:53   maybe wait, maybe you just get a glass of wine or a glass of beer, you know,

01:26:57   shot of something or something on the rocks, you know, vodka and soda. You never go, you

01:27:01   can't go wrong with a vodka and soda. Yeah. I find that the places that I usually go,

01:27:06   I mostly just get shots of something, you know, like something neat because you go to

01:27:12   a dive bar, you don't necessarily want to order a martini.

01:27:17   Or an old fashioned, you might get like an old fashioned. Yeah, exactly. You don't want

01:27:21   fruit salad in there.

01:27:25   [laughter]

01:27:27   Is that a strawberry in there?

01:27:35   All of a sudden there's a half of an orange and a strawberry and the guy's muddling it

01:27:42   all up and then you're like, "Oh, God."

01:27:45   Never mind.

01:27:46   Now he's gonna pour some kind of good bourbon in there

01:27:49   ruin it

01:27:52   Let's see here Jay mush asks

01:27:59   Before the newest iPhone only had to appeal to those who had two-year-old model

01:28:03   For us to 5s 5 to 6 5 s to 6 s has Apple lost that a bit by using a three-year cycle for their design

01:28:10   language. Will the 11 excite 10 use iPhone 10 users like a six excited five

01:28:16   users? It's a good question. I kind of feel that it kind of has but I feel like

01:28:23   that's actually a good thing and I know that from like a Wall Street perspective

01:28:29   the idea that the upgrade lifecycle is getting longer from most typical users

01:28:36   Is not seen as a good thing obviously like people who are invested in Apple on

01:28:41   Wall Street would like everybody to get a new phone every year, you know

01:28:45   So like when those goofy stories come out and say like apples, you know iOS updates

01:28:49   purposefully

01:28:51   Slow down your phone

01:28:53   And everybody is you know, most people are you know, like people like me and you are like, that's actually not true

01:29:00   People who believe it take it on face value or like oh that sucks and then people on Wall Street are like, yeah

01:29:06   seems like a great idea I feel it it's multivariate and I feel like one of them

01:29:18   is that over the course of the last 12 years the you know iPhones have gone

01:29:26   from like a very niche product you know I forget how many they sold in the first

01:29:32   year. But it was like, remember, Jobs wanted to sell 10 million in the first year and a half,

01:29:37   you know, like 18 months. And they made it through the first, like, the first 12 months, right?

01:29:43   Yeah. Yeah. It was about 12 months and they hit the mark already. But 10 million is a joke. You

01:29:48   know, there's, you know, there's hundreds of millions of them in use and they sell,

01:29:52   you know, 70 some million in the first quarter when new ones come out.

01:29:59   But it's inevitable as something goes from something for early adopters to truly mass market.

01:30:09   The mass market end of the market is going to hold on to them as long as they can.

01:30:14   My mom has an iPhone now. My mom thinks she likes it a lot, but she didn't get one until

01:30:21   just like two years ago or something like that because she just thought it was crazy and she

01:30:27   She didn't think she would use it as much.

01:30:30   So she just had like a, she had a cell phone,

01:30:33   but it was like a $20 candy bar type thing.

01:30:37   God bless her.

01:30:39   You know what she does?

01:30:41   I'll tell you this is honest.

01:30:42   I don't wanna throw my mom under the bus.

01:30:44   I love my mom.

01:30:44   I think she still does it with her iPhone even.

01:30:47   I swear to God, when she's done using it, she turns it off.

01:30:51   - Okay, I'm gonna one up you.

01:30:53   'Cause not only is my mom,

01:30:57   at least she does this anymore, but for a long time, not only did my mom turn it off,

01:31:00   she would put it back in the box. It's like, "What are you doing?"

01:31:07   Darrell Bock But we go on a vacation with my parents,

01:31:10   it's actually very nice, and my sisters, husbands, parents, we all go together for a couple of days

01:31:20   in August and everybody gets along. It's, you know, it's almost a miracle. But, but, you know,

01:31:27   you go on vacation. And, you know, one of the things that's nice about the modern world is when

01:31:32   you're, you're first getting to the destination, you can coordinate with each other by cell phone,

01:31:38   to organize, hey, we're how far, you know, we're only half an hour away, oh, we were going to go

01:31:43   out to eat, we'll wait for you, you know, if you're only 20 minutes away, etc. It's, you know,

01:31:48   You can you can just coordinate the the getting together initially right aspect my mom

01:31:53   You can't do it. She she'll call and say something and then you go to call her back and it says like this this

01:31:59   Goes right to voicemail and it's like mom. Why'd you turn your cell phone off? She's like, well I was done

01:32:06   But anyway as people like that

01:32:10   Buy more iPhones, of course, they're gonna keep them

01:32:14   I really cannot imagine my mom getting a new iPhone until her iPhone breaks. I really,

01:32:19   I don't think she would take one if I gave it to her. She would say, "Take that back to the store.

01:32:24   I don't need that." So I think that's natural. But I also think that Apple, and to go back to

01:32:30   Johnny Ive, I do think that they have taken the iPhone to where they see it as being very close

01:32:37   to the platonic ideal of what an iPhone should be given the limits of today's technology, right?

01:32:45   Like surely, you know, something that was just a piece of glass that could light up would be

01:32:49   more Apple-like and better. And if you could fold it up like a dollar bill, that would be even

01:32:53   better. There's all sorts of hypothetical science fiction technology in years to come. I'm sure

01:32:59   that 10 years from now, we'll look back at 2019 iPhones and think that they're crude devices.

01:33:06   But given the limits of today's technology and the the you know prices which they've raised right?

01:33:12   I mean, they're already, you know selling like eleven twelve hundred thirteen hundred dollar iPhones

01:33:16   It's going there

01:33:20   I think it's natural that they change less year over year and it's definitely a Johnny I've

01:33:24   thing that he has said to me personally in like

01:33:28   Off the record briefings and I know he said in interviews multiple times in public that Apple

01:33:35   Does not want to change things for the sake of change. They only want to change a design when it is

01:33:42   Clearly better and so they're not going to do decorative changes year over year

01:33:47   I mean, I might do things they do play with like the colors of the anodized aluminum and and stuff like that

01:33:54   But again, that's not really I that's not the sort of thing that people who think

01:33:59   Three years of the same fundamental design is quote boring that doesn't satisfy them either

01:34:05   there right if you suddenly find out there's a new shade of rose gold yeah I

01:34:09   think it's worked out I think that's I tend to think that the popularity iPhone

01:34:15   10r is partially because it's different and it's definitely because it's cheaper

01:34:21   yeah I think that's probably the bigger reason but I think also people are like

01:34:26   oh I can get this in a bunch of colors yeah and then I'm gonna cover it with a

01:34:29   case and then I'm gonna cover the case that's gonna be a different color and

01:34:32   it's gonna look like.

01:34:33   (laughing)

01:34:34   But you'll be able to see the color poking out

01:34:36   at the lightning port, just a little bit, just a little bit.

01:34:39   At the lightning port.

01:34:40   Yeah, I guess, but I don't think that,

01:34:45   I wouldn't be surprised if we have something

01:34:47   that looks a lot like the iPhone X,

01:34:50   not just this year, but for several years to come.

01:34:53   I really do, and I think it's a mature technology.

01:34:56   I mean, and look at the MacBooks, right?

01:35:01   you know however much we want to complain about the new keyboards and that maybe there took them made them too thin that they should have

01:35:08   Been a little across the board maybe a little thicker and just fill it up with battery

01:35:11   That's what we always want them to do right we everybody always says we want them to make it

01:35:15   Just maybe a little thicker and fill it up with battery, and then I get better battery life

01:35:18   But fundamentally the MacBook lineup, there's a direct lineage in

01:35:25   industrial design from the titanium g4 power book to all of today's

01:35:30   Models, you know and titanium as a material obviously didn't work out that well

01:35:35   But using metal instead of plastic and then once they got to aluminum and then going to unibody

01:35:44   it's you know, there've been definite breakthroughs and they've evolved but it is

01:35:49   There's never once really been a radical change

01:35:53   since the titanium g4 power book really hasn't and and it's just I

01:35:58   I feel like they've gotten to the point where this is, you know, I forget the exact Johnny Ive words,

01:36:04   but to reduce a product to its essence. I would say, I mean, I guess the air is kind of a radical

01:36:10   change, but yeah, a little bit still. I know what you, I know what you mean. I mean, it's basically

01:36:14   the same. Well, you know, it's like, it's, it's a screen and a keyboard, right? Right. But I feel

01:36:22   I feel like this round rectangle shape

01:36:26   of the current iPhone lineup is sort of,

01:36:29   given today's technology, this is it.

01:36:31   And it might change, play with colors.

01:36:33   I don't expect anything truly radical.

01:36:35   And I think if you really wanna get excited by,

01:36:40   and I always think it's, in many ways,

01:36:43   when people complain about that,

01:36:45   and I don't wanna say the guy who asked this question

01:36:47   is saying this, but a lot of it is getting,

01:36:52   wanting to get excited about what it looks like before you even turn the screen on. You

01:36:56   know, like what is it just, does it excite you just as an object in your hand? And I

01:37:01   get it. I mean, it would be nice if, you know, if something, you know, if you, if it was

01:37:05   so different and new and clearly better that you were excited before you even saw what

01:37:09   it looked like with the screen on, that would be better than, that would be good, but I,

01:37:14   I just don't see how that can happen, you know, every two years. Yeah. Yeah. It's just

01:37:20   natural for a maturing device. And we basically evolved it. Or

01:37:26   they've basically evolved it to, we can take credit based on our

01:37:30   demand into something that is really just it's a screen.

01:37:33   Right? It's just a screen with a backing. Yeah. Well, and I think

01:37:38   there's not much else you can do at that point. Well, and the

01:37:41   other thing, you know, that they did with the iPhone 10 is, I feel

01:37:46   like it was a an instance of measure twice cut once of okay we're gonna make

01:37:55   this the single biggest change they've ever made to the iPhone from a how does

01:38:01   it work perspective I mean the only other thing I could think of would be

01:38:04   going to retina screens but that's sort of very much by definition how it looks

01:38:08   but the big change is getting rid of the home button and because the home button

01:38:13   was central to the whole paradigm of how you used it. It was, you know, how you woke it up. It was,

01:38:19   you know, launch an app, how do you get out, hit the home button. And getting rid of the home

01:38:25   button was truly a rethinking at the most fundamental level of the experience of how

01:38:31   you use it. And I feel like they really took their time to get it right and decided, you know,

01:38:38   is this actually a better overall experience than having a home button at the bottom of the screen and

01:38:44   I feel like now that they've done that I feel like it has panned out

01:38:49   I still feel and I wrote this on during fireball a while back. I still feel that maybe some of the perceived

01:38:56   not even perceived the actual sort of slowness in

01:38:59   iPhone sales in the last two years. I think to some degree can be attributed to people who

01:39:08   Who are reluctant to get rid of a home button?

01:39:10   based mmm iPhone because it's too new and different and they're the sort of people who are

01:39:16   They're just regular people and they're used to it and they know that it works

01:39:20   And they know that touch ID works and face ID sounds like something that maybe wouldn't work. You know sounds too good to be true

01:39:28   But maybe you think it's creepy or right you know, but it'll happen over time and I'm

01:39:36   Personally 100% convinced that it's it's a better paradigm for using the phone

01:39:40   But now that they've done it

01:39:43   I really feel like it's even less likely that the basic shape or look at the phone is going to change

01:39:48   The only thing I can think of is is and I would as someone who owns an iPhone se I would actually like to see

01:39:54   This is something that's more informed by the form factor or you know, just the edges of the iPad. Yeah. Yeah

01:40:01   Yeah, I would I would kind of like this. I love the feel of that

01:40:04   Yeah, I would kind of like flat sides again. Yeah, I would also like to see them add a smaller model

01:40:11   I don't know how much smaller but I would like to see I

01:40:15   Think the iPhone 10 and 10 s size is too big to be the smallest iPhone

01:40:22   but by all

01:40:25   Accounts there this year's phones are the same sizes as last year's there is no smaller iPhone coming in September

01:40:32   I don't know. I would like to see them do that. Lou Piper asks, "What product currently

01:40:39   in Apple's lineup do you believe will be the most influential in shaping the tech industry

01:40:44   as a whole over the next 10 years?" Looking back, it seems like the iPhone was the answer

01:40:50   for the last 10 years. I would say it's undisputably the iPhone for the last 10 years. The iPhone

01:40:55   is truly the most world-changing computer product ever made by any company. And I can't

01:41:02   even see how somebody could argue with it. Every single, almost every single person I

01:41:07   know carries either an iPhone or a very iPhone-like Android device. I linked to, in my retrospective

01:41:19   links on looking back on Johnny Ives career I linked to Walt Mossberg's 2007

01:41:26   review of the original iPhone which I thought it rereading it 12 years later

01:41:32   was incredibly spot-on like man when you're writing an 800 word column for

01:41:39   the you know the Wall Street Journal mass audience explaining what this new

01:41:42   iPhone is it it really almost seems like he cheated like he just wrote it now and

01:41:48   like slipped it into the Wall Street Journal CMS

01:41:51   Every single thing that was great about the iPhone he got he completely

01:41:56   Nailed it with the software keyboard and said this is controversial and a lot of people don't think it's work

01:42:02   He goes after a couple of days. I got used to it

01:42:05   It's not an issue and I mean how many thousands of words were wasted in 2007 and 2008 on the damn keyboard?

01:42:12   Mossberg had it nailed after like six days with the iPhone, you know, yeah

01:42:17   But the other thing that really stuck out to me about it was there was a comparison chart that they pushed on they put on

01:42:22   the article where it was like here's the iPhone against the competition and it was like

01:42:26   Three three other top smartphones and it was the blackberry whatever the Samsung blackjack

01:42:32   Which I always forget I always forget just how it was such a you know

01:42:38   Samsung being Samsung before they started ripping off Apple they ripped off blackberry and even named their product the blackjack

01:42:45   So it would start with the word black

01:42:47   And palm trio something or another that had a like a pencil

01:42:54   pencil diameter

01:42:56   Antenna sticking out at the top of it

01:42:59   which they look I

01:43:01   Mean Jobs himself compared you know put the similar products up on the slide at the iPhone introduction and

01:43:09   In talking about you know hey, they put these

01:43:14   You know they all have these keyboards and they all have all of these buttons and one thing with all these hardware buttons is you?

01:43:19   Can't change them depending on the application context we realize that hey we could do this

01:43:24   It's called software, and we'll just do it all in software including a keyboard and you know even he put that slap

01:43:29   But when you looked at it in the Wall Street Journal article. It's just it's just preposterous how how?

01:43:35   Closely the entire industry followed the iPhones lead within a handful of years

01:43:40   Yeah, so for the next ten years

01:43:43   Hmm and you can't even get a phone that looks like I mean

01:43:46   Does anybody make a phone like that anymore? No, you know

01:43:49   What's interesting is the only phones you can get that aren't iPhone like our flip phones the flip phone has survived

01:43:55   Yeah, and yeah, I did I see people not all the time, but sometimes surprisingly young, you know

01:44:00   I don't know if it's a hipster thing. I don't know if it's I

01:44:03   Don't know, you know just not be running thing. It's not being into technology at all

01:44:09   But yeah, you go into a convenience store and buy a burner phone. It's probably one of those right?

01:44:14   Yeah, but nobody sells a blackberry style phone anymore that I know of

01:44:18   It's all you either go all the way back to it

01:44:20   Just a simple flip phone with you know, a zero to nine keypad or you've got or it's a blank screen. It's a blank screen

01:44:26   Hard to say for the next ten years, I don't think there's anything like the iPhone on the market

01:44:33   I mean, I think you can see a lot of people running around trying to copy air pods

01:44:39   Yeah, I would say it's the wearables in general the come some combination of air pods and the watch

01:44:46   where

01:44:48   It's not about a device in your hands. It's you know that it's wearable

01:44:54   Mm-hmm, and I don't think that air pods

01:44:58   Or the watch or air pods combined with the watch would have the direct

01:45:03   Influence on the next 10 years the way the iPhone has the way that we really know. Yeah

01:45:08   I mean, it's not gonna be doesn't seem like there's anything currently

01:45:11   Shipping that but there have but there are packed there. They're leading the way of making

01:45:17   tiny little

01:45:20   Gadgets that are actually

01:45:22   Unix computers

01:45:24   And doing things that you could only do with a full-fledged

01:45:28   iOS computer running in them

01:45:31   That I think ten years from now

01:45:35   We'll look back and say that the the watch and the air pods were the start of this

01:45:39   You know the fact that we have like six six different computers on us at all times

01:45:43   You know in front of our eyes and our ears on our wrists, etc, etc

01:45:48   So I would go with the wearables

01:45:52   Yeah, I find it funny too that the wearables

01:45:55   Get dismissed as a business

01:45:58   In the in the Johnny I've

01:46:02   Johnny I've is leaving Apple

01:46:05   Trail of news stories. I know that I think it was trip Mickel's piece for the Wall Street Journal

01:46:10   That was the one that Tim Cook objected to publicly

01:46:13   My with an email like did you see this?

01:46:16   I didn't really mean to it on during fireball because it would seemed hard to get into without doing the full

01:46:22   paragraph by paragraph takedown and so it just

01:46:25   It I punted on it, but I thought it was fascinating like the Wall Street Journal ran a story by trip mickle

01:46:32   more or less

01:46:34   pushing the line that

01:46:36   Johnny I've has been checked out of Apple for years now

01:46:39   and

01:46:42   Then at some point was like they haven't had a hit since the iPad

01:46:45   and

01:46:47   I

01:46:49   Think I'm almost certain that if you just take Apple's wearables, although it might be wearables plus

01:46:55   services which is a little different but

01:46:58   Just their wearables business and maybe wearables plus services alone would be a fortune 50 company

01:47:04   Yeah, it isn't the iPhone but the iPad wasn't the iPhone either

01:47:09   So somehow the iPad has been grandfathered in as a hit product at this point even though like in its earlier years when it was

01:47:16   actually selling better it wasn't because it wasn't selling as well as the

01:47:19   iPhone well the iPhone but now somehow that the the the Apple bear line has

01:47:27   includes the iPad as a hit but that's because it was I guess because it came

01:47:31   out while Steve Jobs was still around right and air pods and the watch don't

01:47:38   even though everywhere I go I see people with Apple watch and the watch has taken

01:47:44   Is just as well as I think like iPods did in the air or the iPad. Yeah

01:47:49   Oh, I definitely like the first year. I mean, and I don't know if you know, it's probably gonna tie

01:47:54   it's gonna keep going like that necessarily but it might top out but it's

01:47:59   It's still doing extremely well. I

01:48:02   Think it was Horace Deju who yeah made the case

01:48:06   He noted that he made it the case that the Apple watch is now bigger than the iPod ever was even at peak iPod

01:48:12   And I think it has much better legs. I think the watch is here to stay. I mean, I think it might

01:48:17   You know and again naturally so just like we were talking about with the iPhone

01:48:21   It might turn into something that people don't upgrade as frequently and and as well they should expect I think when you buy a

01:48:28   $350 watch you should expect to get more than two years out of it and I realize it's not just a watch it is different

01:48:36   it's you know, it's more a thing on your wrist that

01:48:40   can function as a watch but

01:48:42   You know

01:48:45   Again, I'm sure Wall Street people would love it if people were buying a new watch every year, but it's 350 bucks

01:48:50   Which is almost certainly the most expensive watch most people have ever bought in their life

01:48:55   You know, you should expect to get more than two years out of it. Yeah, but boy, oh boy

01:48:59   I see I see so many of them and oh, yeah. Yeah and in a cross, I mean, yeah, I don't want to

01:49:08   Stereotype people again, but like a cross economic background see me. Yeah - oh, I think so, too

01:49:14   I definitely think so. I see you know, I mean I see baggers at the grocery store. Yeah, I mean them. Yeah

01:49:19   And it's it people really like it and I think for people like that. I remember reading that there was a story

01:49:25   I probably never find the link but

01:49:27   I

01:49:29   Specifically remember it is and it was a great story but service industry people bartenders

01:49:35   Mm-hmm servers

01:49:38   Grocery baggers it's super popular with them because they're not allowed to check their phone during work. Oh, yeah

01:49:44   And so they can wear the watch and still get notifications and still can you know?

01:49:49   See what people are texting them and maybe do a quick tap thing to send a quick response or something like that

01:49:55   So if anything I would actually say, you know in terms of like the demographics it is it

01:50:02   It is definitely not like an elite

01:50:05   Purchase or something like that. It's really dem, you know Democratic people really have it

01:50:10   And I've seen people complain about air pods the same way that oh, it's you know

01:50:14   They're so expensive that nobody only the rich can afford them and it's like I see mail carriers with them

01:50:19   I see everybody when I actually was I was out for a walk the other day when the heat broke and I actually was like

01:50:25   I mean, I gotta get out of this house and go somewhere

01:50:27   I should have actually kept track but I was just doing it like a rough estimate. But I

01:50:33   Convinced I don't think it was biased. I really I didn't do like an exact tally

01:50:38   But I saw more people with air pods than I saw with corded white headphones

01:50:42   Mm-hmm, and you know, of course maybe you know and people who are cynical can argue well

01:50:48   of course because they took out the headphone port and if they hadn't removed the headphone port to

01:50:52   To convince people to buy air pods. It wouldn't be that way

01:50:55   But I suppose I don't know I I

01:51:00   Cannot believe how many years of my life I spent tangled up with the cable between yeah, I am

01:51:05   Way happier with air pods so much happy and I listened to so much more I listened to

01:51:11   I'll just even on a five-minute errand. I'll go and listen to five minutes of a podcast, you know, let me get five more minutes and

01:51:18   Whereas you know in the courted era I would just wouldn't couldn't be bothered

01:51:23   I was like, I can't even talk to my wife anymore. She's got him in all the time. Yeah same here

01:51:27   It's actually really improved my marriage

01:51:29   simply on the grounds that a lot of what I say annoys my wife. Like, I'm not saying that it's

01:51:36   better because we don't communicate. It's just that a lot of the stupid stuff I say,

01:51:40   she doesn't hear anymore. And then we do talk, we always talk about podcasts.

01:51:46   All right, let me take one more break here. Thank our third and final sponsor of this very special

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01:55:03   What else?

01:55:05   Anything else that's on this list of questions?

01:55:08   Spotting good ones. - I wanted to check my biases.

01:55:10   I looked up the average salary for mail carriers,

01:55:13   It's forty six thousand dollars a year. There you go

01:55:16   It's not nothing no, yeah, but still it's not like yeah

01:55:23   Will we ever see here's one from Dan stud Nicky will we ever see iMessage and FaceTime go cross-platform?

01:55:30   I would say maybe I would say more likely for iMessage than FaceTime. I don't know why I would feel that way

01:55:38   hmm, I

01:55:42   Definitely I know frozen face face time was the one that he said was gonna be open source

01:55:46   But yeah, that was jobs just pulled that out of his ass

01:55:49   I've said this before I know for a fact

01:55:52   I know someone who was on the I'm on the FaceTime team and

01:55:55   They they learned of it going open source when he said it in the key note

01:55:59   And they were like wait what?

01:56:01   And then they're like quick like looking at the source code

01:56:04   We can't and they're like looking at the source code like well

01:56:07   we can't open source X, Y, and Z. It's no surprise that it never actually went open

01:56:15   source. And then there was a lawsuit from some troll that had a goofy patent that never

01:56:19   should have been granted that made it even worse. Even without that though, I don't know

01:56:23   that it ever would have happened. I do know, I heard years ago somebody, there was a rumor

01:56:27   a couple years ago, it was on the Mac Daily News website, which when I linked to it, I

01:56:34   I wrote, you know that site I'm talking about, right?

01:56:36   - Yeah.

01:56:37   - And I wrote, 'cause you know,

01:56:40   I like to give credit to writers.

01:56:42   I like to say, you know, I don't just say

01:56:44   the New York Times reports, colon, here's the block quote.

01:56:46   I'll say, you know, Jane Smith reporting

01:56:51   for the New York Times, colon.

01:56:53   I like to give credit, I think bylines matter,

01:56:56   but Mac Daily News has been around forever.

01:56:59   I think it's been around a lot longer than Daring Fireball,

01:57:01   But whoever it is who runs it has always been anonymous.

01:57:04   And so I wrote from whoever the hell it is

01:57:06   who writes Mac Daily News.

01:57:08   But he apparently had a tipster like two or three years ago

01:57:13   say that Apple was going to, right before WWDC,

01:57:16   was going to announce iMessage for Android.

01:57:19   Obviously that was incorrect, it didn't pan out.

01:57:21   But I don't find it incredible.

01:57:23   I find, and I happen to know that they at least circulated

01:57:28   designs within the company of what iMessage for Android would look like, with the various designs

01:57:36   sort of going on a scale of one to ten of being the most natively Android-y to the most, at the

01:57:44   other end, the most direct copy of the iMessage app, even if it's not idiomatic Android UI.

01:57:55   I know that they circulated that, but whether that means that they were actually close to

01:57:59   considering it, or it's just like, you know, this is just a sane thing to do in case the

01:58:05   powers that be decide to do it, I don't know how close they ever got to actually doing it.

01:58:09   You know, the counter argument would be that, the cynical argument would be that Apple sees

01:58:15   iMessage as platform lock-in. And I actually think, you know, I don't even think you have

01:58:20   to be a cynic there is definitely a lock-in angle to this that you know and if you switch from iPhone

01:58:26   to Android it's not just the superficial green versus blue bubbles thing although that is a

01:58:34   factor for some people but you know you group chats don't work as well when everybody's not

01:58:40   on iMessage you don't get end-to-end encryption which is a very strong privacy thing I mean you

01:58:47   You know, there's a definite factor there.

01:58:51   But I don't think that that really,

01:58:54   I think that if Apple, in the hypothetical world

01:58:56   where Apple does release iMessage for Android,

01:58:58   I don't think it's going to adversely affect iPhone sales.

01:59:02   I really don't.

01:59:02   I don't think that there's going to be any,

01:59:04   even a measurable--

01:59:05   - None of that, yeah, not in any measurable way.

01:59:07   - Yeah, I really think that maybe in like our sphere

01:59:12   of tech writers, you know, there might be some people

01:59:15   who do the, you know, write for a site like The Verge say that it isn't really an Apple-focused

01:59:24   site but sort of treats Apple as one of several technology companies where there might be some

01:59:28   people who maybe have been holding on to an iPhone as their primary phone and switch to a Google

01:59:35   Pixel or something once there's iMessage for Android. But I think that the number of people

01:59:41   who that qualifies as that is a tenth of a percent rounding error overall. I really don't

01:59:46   think it would. And I think that there's an argument for Apple doing it on the lines of

01:59:51   like Apple Pay and Apple Card and sending payments and stuff like that where they don't

01:59:59   really monetize iMessage. There's certainly no advertising, thank God, in iMessage. But

02:00:06   It's not entirely a loss leader at this point because they do make some money whenever people do send money to each other

02:00:14   using Apple pay over iMessage and

02:00:16   So I could see that there might be an art and that would be to me the argument inside Apple for doing it

02:00:23   Mm-hmm is that the the amount of money they can make by skimming a tenth of a percent off these credit card and debit card

02:00:30   transactions of Apple pay

02:00:32   Would would more than compensate

02:00:35   For the handful of people who might be tempted to switch to Android if only because of iMessage

02:00:41   Yeah

02:00:43   I don't know why I feel differently about FaceTime. I

02:00:47   Guess it's possible

02:00:50   maybe you know and they are sort of they they're different apps, but they're clearly sort of hand-in-hand in terms of

02:00:56   You know FaceTime is the video and audio component of iMessage, you know

02:01:02   So I would say I could see it going anyway

02:01:06   I could see you know 30 years from now and when I'm Mick Jagger's age and we're still doing the talk show

02:01:11   We're still there is no still no iMessage for Android. All right, I could see them doing it this fall

02:01:17   You know as a surprise announcement, I really could see this one going either way

02:01:20   But I wouldn't put too much weight in the idea that Apple values the lock-in so much that they wouldn't even consider

02:01:27   yeah, I wouldn't either I I would think that they wouldn't do it just because

02:01:32   It doesn't give them. What does it mean? I like I don't I'm not

02:01:35   Convinced that that amount of money is worth it to them or that it's that much

02:01:40   I guess I don't know or that they I mean, but they don't know the spreadsheet. So

02:01:45   Yeah

02:01:47   Hmm

02:01:50   What else do we have here any other good questions? I'm scrolling down here. I feel like we're getting towards the end

02:01:55   Yeah, here's a question fairy Plouger asks

02:01:58   were there any subjects off limits in your interview with Craig and

02:02:02   Jaws

02:02:05   Although he spelled it Josh. I'm gonna chalk that up to

02:02:07   Autocorrect although you would think if anybody could make sure Jaws gets through autocorrect. It's Greg Jaws

02:02:14   Yeah, every once in a while. I find an Apple thing that it seems to screw up right? I'm always surprised when that happens

02:02:20   right and and even if it if it does screw up Jaws Jaws himself might not notice because

02:02:28   Surely 90% of the people he I messaged just have him in their contacts already and

02:02:32   And so it would it would pick up the correct spelling from there

02:02:36   It's a lot simpler than you might think there are there are no

02:02:40   I have never once in all the years starting with Schiller's first appearance on my live show five years ago, whatever that was

02:02:46   I

02:02:49   Do talk to Apple PR beforehand?

02:02:51   I don't give them my questions beforehand, but I do talk about what I want to talk about

02:02:57   about. Basically, I think for the same reason that on TV talk shows, the producers go through

02:03:05   questions with the guests just so that they're ready. I don't want to surprise somebody and

02:03:11   not just have them not be ready to answer something. But that's different than giving

02:03:15   the questions in advance. But I've never been told x, y, and z are off limits. Not even

02:03:22   one thing.

02:03:23   I would imagine there are certain, I mean you're not gonna ask, what are this false

02:03:30   iPhones gonna look like? Right, right. You know, I mean you're not bothering with stuff

02:03:34   that you know that they're not gonna answer. Right, and I do... And that's not, that's

02:03:40   not like, I mean that's just like, try not to waste time. Exactly, because it's, you

02:03:44   know, there's a limited amount of time. I also want it to be entertaining. You mostly

02:03:51   asked them about me right yeah for the most part especially this year it was mostly about

02:03:55   mostly about you um you know that's fine and i'm fine with that the keyboards were an interesting

02:04:02   omission this year i didn't bring up the macbook keyboards um part of it too is the that the

02:04:09   nature of the live show every year after wwdc is often you know and this year was a perfect

02:04:14   example where there was so much stuff announced at WWDC the day before that it

02:04:21   you know officially the show is supposed to be an hour long I think this year's

02:04:25   was like 90 minutes so it go even going half an hour over the allotted time we

02:04:32   still only covered some of the stuff that was announced the day before WWDC

02:04:36   and what were they gonna say about the keyboards you know that's the thing you

02:04:41   know they were they would repeat I know what they would do they would

02:04:44   repeat the talking points from the two weeks before WWDC when they announced the third gen

02:04:51   keyboards and the new quote material and say that this you know the vast majority you know this only

02:04:58   affects a small number of Mac users. I wouldn't say that would be a waste of time it was it was

02:05:03   something I considered bringing up you know it might have if there had been less WWDC news but

02:05:09   nobody said to me before the show don't don't talk about the keyboards never came up.

02:05:12   I really think it's more or less a mutual trust that they trust that I'm not going to waste their

02:05:20   time with questions they can't answer but that you know I can ask questions that are hard or

02:05:26   difficult it's you know I don't know I feel like this year show I did a good job I hate to pat

02:05:30   myself on the back but I feel like I did a good job and it's um because you have them then right

02:05:39   you're more inclined to talk about the stuff that just happened, right?

02:05:43   Yeah.

02:05:43   And particularly in a year where there's a lot of pretty exciting stuff like this year,

02:05:48   it just seems... I mean, maybe people want you to stick it to them more.

02:05:57   Yeah, that's what some people want. Some people want to really, you know,

02:06:01   to burn all the bridges and...

02:06:02   Right.

02:06:02   Really?

02:06:03   So they'll never come back.

02:06:05   I make them really uncut but make them really uncomfortable for an hour with a bright spotlight on their face

02:06:10   You know and it's different too than if I were writing a feature article and it was like hey you get to follow Jaws around

02:06:21   for two days and

02:06:23   Right, you know like a 5,000 word profile

02:06:25   I I would be much more inclined to ask questions like that

02:06:29   then then in a live show where it needs to be entertaining and and

02:06:33   A bad line of questioning that I stick with could take the air out of the room. Yeah, you know I can

02:06:39   I mean, I'm trying to remember I can't remember exactly what it was

02:06:42   But it seems like if not at this one at least at previous ones

02:06:45   There have been questions that you've asked where they you know

02:06:48   There's there's a lot of laughter from the audience and they smile and you know

02:06:51   Right and then give you and then give you a pat answer. Yeah, you know to something

02:06:56   that's… but they don't really want to talk about that much.

02:07:00   Trevor Burrus Right. Very true. That's very true.

02:07:01   Mike Fleagle asks, "How did the two of you Johns meet?" I don't remember. I really don't remember.

02:07:08   John Green I don't remember exactly either. I remember us

02:07:12   having a drink at a burger or something at one of the bars down near Moscone.

02:07:19   Trevor Burrus Yeah.

02:07:20   John Green That seems like one of the first times.

02:07:21   Trevor Burrus Probably like a Mac…

02:07:23   John Green We spent any amount of time together just talking.

02:07:26   Probably a Macworld Expo. Yeah, it was definitely a Macworld Expo. Yeah, because I didn't go to I'm Ava

02:07:31   She's a I've only been a 1ww DC. I haven't been to many that's for sure

02:07:35   Yeah, so it would that was and that was um

02:07:40   The first the first Macworld that I went to was 2007 which was quite the one to go to

02:07:48   Because I said next I'm resource it next to Glenn Fleishman

02:07:54   after it was over I said, "Wow, are they all like this?" And I don't think, I can't remember if we,

02:08:03   I went and saw you in Syracuse to do the talk show, I guess. No, it was Cable Sasser, right?

02:08:11   Oh, Cable, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, Cable. Yeah, it was Cable. Yeah. And what's funny

02:08:15   was I hadn't met Merlin then, I don't even know if I knew who Merlin was. And I did a little video

02:08:22   on like some crappy camera that I had and as I panned the audio, you know, like the people

02:08:27   standing around watching and I watched the company like a few years later, I was like, oh, there's

02:08:30   Merlyn. I remember that. He was standing like five feet away from me. I forget if we were even

02:08:36   calling them podcasts at the time, but Merlin was doing some short form audio stuff. Yeah. And so,

02:08:41   he interviewed me and Jason Snell. And this was the day of the keynote. And then, but we were over

02:08:47   in the expo hall so you know probably like one o'clock and I think cable and I

02:08:51   did our live show that afternoon that you know the very day look and it could

02:08:56   just I just honestly I've never I couldn't get hired doing drugs then I

02:09:02   was thinking about this iPhone but Merlin did like a five-minute interview

02:09:08   with me and Jason Snell I'll have to see if I can find a link to it but it was

02:09:11   amazing because we started just talking about the iPhone and within five minutes

02:09:16   Snell and I had convinced ourselves that Apple has to do an SDK and there's they've got to be able to you know

02:09:22   Like we just went to we just like completely predicted the App Store. Yeah, absolutely

02:09:28   Within five minutes. It was like five dense minutes of of really

02:09:33   Predictions that panned out very well. I have to see if I can find this. Yeah

02:09:38   And I care it so I can't remember if we managed to get that was when we yeah probably drink probably yeah

02:09:45   It seems like maybe we knew each other we knew each other through email. So yeah, definitely before yeah. Yeah, right

02:09:51   Hmm trying to think I'm running out of questions. I thank everybody who asked them here if I forgot

02:09:59   If I if I've missed any good questions, I'll save them up for the next one

02:10:05   We'll probably I'll probably need to do another Q&A over the summer just to just to fill fill air time

02:10:10   Any others that really stick out to you or should we wrap this up?

02:10:13   No. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks to everybody. Oh, here's…

02:10:23   They're all wonderful questions. I want to thank everybody for…

02:10:28   Here's a good one, just as a recommendation. Have you seen the movie, the General Magic

02:10:33   movie? Somebody… Groots?

02:10:34   Oh, no. I haven't seen it yet.

02:10:36   I don't think it's… I think the reason most people haven't seen it is I don't

02:10:40   think it's out on a home video.

02:10:42   I actually saw it at a screening here in Philadelphia and it's okay. It's well worth watching if you're a

02:10:49   fan of

02:10:51   What you think the general magic movie might be like?

02:10:54   I don't you know what I mean? Like if you're a nerd who likes 90s nostalgia, right? It's it's really great

02:11:05   I don't think my wife would have enjoyed it at all

02:11:08   Yes is what I'm trying to say like

02:11:11   It was really interesting. I don't think that the general magic

02:11:15   Product was I think the movie sort of over sells how far ahead of the time it was

02:11:20   I think they were on the right track, but I

02:11:23   Don't think I think they lost fair and square to the palm pilot and the same say I've always thought the same thing about the

02:11:31   Newton as well as much as I love the Newton and there were parts of it that were

02:11:35   Brilliant and way better than what palm had and there were parts of the general magic system that were better than what the Newton and palm

02:11:42   Had I think the one thing palm got right in hindsight that people seem to overlook is that the thing could fit in your pocket?

02:11:48   It sounds stupid but the Newton was too big to fit in a pocket. And so we're the general magic devices

02:11:56   and

02:11:58   duh

02:12:00   right, I mean

02:12:03   Even the name since now even the name palm was you know kept them focused

02:12:07   You know like where does this device go when you use it it fits in the palm of your hand. It's you know

02:12:12   And I'd ever owned a general magic device

02:12:15   I think the you I think their user interface was a little too cutesy real world where they they actually took the quote desktop

02:12:23   metaphor of the Mac and

02:12:25   went like

02:12:27   It's not quite skeuomorphism in this sense of textures because it was still a black and white screen

02:12:32   But they literally had like a three-dimensional desk and the desk had it looked like a video game more, you know

02:12:38   it was in three dimensions and

02:12:40   There's a desk and there's a telephone on the desk and you would tap the telephone on the desk to like open up the phone

02:12:46   App and yeah, that was a pretty common sort of thing because that was like Microsoft Bob, right? Yeah

02:12:52   Yeah, and you know in the general magic one having been largely designed by former Mac team employees at Apple was obviously

02:13:00   May more tastefully done than a Microsoft Bob shows

02:13:03   But just the idea that oh, you know in order for people to understand it. It has to look like yeah

02:13:08   Things that they know yeah, like you're literally playing a video game of being in in an office

02:13:15   But like they and nothing I it's not like leisure suit Larry were funny things have it, right?

02:13:20   It was literally you're just calling your dentist to make an appointment

02:13:23   And you're opening an actual book to find the dentist number and stuff like that

02:13:29   Oh, here's one. We can't go. We can't finish without Gus Mueller's question.

02:13:34   Moltz's prediction of Apple made sex bots has yes to yet to come to fruition. What's up with that?

02:13:39   Is the project still going on and what's the code name for it? I can't. I'm not allowed to say.

02:13:46   Talk about predictions. Do this in legal.

02:13:55   I am pretty proud that I'm not sure if I'm the first person, but I feel like I'm probably up

02:14:05   there to say the word sexbots on NPR. Because I got interviewed, somebody from NPR interviewed me

02:14:14   after one of those, I don't know if it was that one where we met or if it was the one after that.

02:14:22   I think it was the one after. I think it was the 2008 Macworld called me to interview me about

02:14:26   and she called me back later and she said, "Did you say sex bots?"

02:14:32   I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, robots you can have sex with."

02:14:36   "Okay, thanks."

02:14:39   Just wanted to fact check.

02:14:41   Right.

02:14:42   Because you don't want to screw somebody on that.

02:14:44   My editor wanted me to call back.

02:14:46   Yeah, you don't want to attribute that quote to somebody and have it turn out it was or what they

02:14:51   actually sure I know what you're talking about here although it would make for

02:14:55   one of those really funny like corrections of the year yeah earlier

02:14:59   version of this see I always just thought that you know if anybody is

02:15:04   gonna make a robot that you're actually gonna want to have sex with it should be

02:15:07   Apple because nobody else is gonna do it well enough no nobody else can you trust

02:15:13   anybody else to keep you exactly private it also privacy also privacy it all

02:15:19   stays on device oh god John moltz it's a pleasure having you on as always hope

02:15:28   you have a good rest of your summer people can get back outside our mutual

02:15:35   pal Dan Morin just got married you were you were there friends so

02:15:39   congratulations to Dan if you're listening and you've got a how many

02:15:43   podcasts you have with Dan Morin I have two podcasts with Dan Morin I have the

02:15:48   Rebound which we talk about similar stuff to this podcast and then I also have Biff

02:15:52   which we talk about superhero tv shows and movies yeah you renamed that one right that was used to

02:15:58   be called well it's a yeah we show well we finished the well we shut down the old one

02:16:02   which was uh the speedy arrow cast because arrow was ending uh this year and um started up a new

02:16:08   one yeah there you go but it's the same crew it's it's me and dan and guy english yeah mostly you and

02:16:14   Dan last week yeah everybody depends on many drinks guys had my thanks to you my

02:16:26   thanks to our sponsors let me see if I could do them off the top my head we had

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02:16:37   great have a great rest of your summer John okay you too