The Talk Show

76: Here`s a Frickin` Pipe Dream


00:00:00   I got a question for you. It never even occurred to me until I...

00:00:04   So I think a couple weeks ago, I forget who... if it was Dalrymple or somebody, you know, in our little circle,

00:00:09   somebody tweeted something or linked to it like, "Do you keep orange juice in your house?"

00:00:14   And I thought that was universal. I grew up, my family, we always had orange juice.

00:00:19   Oh, yeah, I can't. I'm...

00:00:23   If I don't have my glass of orange juice in the morning, you know, today can't start.

00:00:27   Right.

00:00:28   Yeah, to me it's more important than coffee because it's… I could go out and get a coffee.

00:00:32   Like, if we run out of orange juice, that just to me is like a red alert. I will just immediately

00:00:38   put on a coat and go buy a jug of orange juice. And then I'll come back in the house and Amy will

00:00:43   be like, "Well, why don't you tell me you're going to the store? I have a whole list of shit

00:00:46   that I need." And I'd be like, "Well, I don't know about that stuff, but I needed orange juice."

00:00:49   Right.

00:00:50   But it ends up a lot of people…

00:00:51   Emergencies must be dealt with.

00:00:52   Right.

00:00:54   And I'll tell you what, growing up, we did not have, I mean, my parents weren't, you know,

00:01:01   like I didn't have like super expensive sneakers. Sometimes we'd buy store brand soda, pop or

00:01:08   something like that. We didn't have a lot of soda, but if we did, we would. But I'll tell you what,

00:01:12   one thing my parents have never, I mean, this is from the earliest age that I can remember onward,

00:01:17   have never cheaped on is orange juice, always not from concentrate.

00:01:23   Oh, we my mom used to make the stuff from concentrate and and you know, that was

00:01:28   Okay, but you know, we got the real stuff. I take it back. I take it back when I was really little

00:01:35   I mean we're talking in the 70s. We did we had the froat. Yeah, you'd buy frozen orange juice in a in a can

00:01:41   And then you'd you'd on

00:01:43   Reconstitute it yourself, right? That's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you pull it out of the freezer and crack it open

00:01:48   And right, but I had that we had to wait for it to kind of dissolve and melt and everything

00:01:53   You know that that was added to you, you know

00:01:57   The emergency of being out of orange juice right you had to sit there and wait for the stuff to melt and eventually

00:02:02   Okay, we can have orange juice now

00:02:05   I love orange juice, but I just thought so here's the reason I thought about it is I

00:02:10   Bought the I bought the Florida's natural brand here

00:02:15   I'm enjoying some as we record the show it occurs to me though that all the orange juice I buy is from Florida

00:02:21   But you live in Orange County, California, right, right

00:02:25   And so when you buy orange juice at the supermarket, it doesn't come from Florida. Does it it used to not come from Florida, but a

00:02:32   Orange County right now you're you're hard-pressed to find an orange tree and in this county anymore

00:02:39   it's all all the the orange grows have been

00:02:43   torn down and replaced with housing really yeah, it's

00:02:47   There are there are as you go inland, you know get away from the beach a bit

00:02:55   Yeah, there's there's still a lot of or not not enough to produce a significant. I don't think so

00:03:01   I see in a lot of the

00:03:03   Stuff that we get is you know, it says, you know from Florida oranges. Hmm

00:03:08   Yeah, it's not as big an industry in California as it once was.

00:03:12   As a growing up it was that way. Does it touch a nerve a little bit?

00:03:16   Yeah, I mean, you know growing up as a kid we used to have

00:03:20   Orange groves are a perfect place to have wars, right? Right. You know, there's all sorts of rotten oranges lying on the ground

00:03:27   You can take cover and there's unlimited ammo.

00:03:32   Exactly, you know, it's and then and you know, there's rows and rows and rows of these trees

00:03:37   It was just you know we could spend hours on the orange grows. You know you could probably cheat

00:03:41   I probably cheated and like looked over the top

00:03:43   Not not it. You know age six or whatever it was

00:03:47   So yeah, I

00:03:52   Wonder where she's like I'm totally ignorant about orange juice around the world like like like I do know

00:03:59   I know that Europe isn't in Europe

00:04:01   It's not a big thing because when I've been to Europe the orange juice is horrible

00:04:05   I mean, it's just terrible.

00:04:07   And like when I've, one time for the OOL conference,

00:04:11   they put us up and instead of a hotel,

00:04:13   we stayed in a little rental house

00:04:15   'cause we brought Jonas with us for most of the week.

00:04:18   And so we got to like live in Dublin and it was great.

00:04:21   And you could just sort of see what it's like

00:04:23   when we went grocery shopping and stuff.

00:04:25   And it's like the orange juice there,

00:04:26   it's just, oh, it's horrendous.

00:04:28   It's like not a thing.

00:04:29   - Where I was living in Italy,

00:04:33   The orange juice wasn't great, but they could, you know, they got, you know, there are lots

00:04:38   of oranges grown in Sicily.

00:04:40   So you know, the oranges coming up in the south.

00:04:42   I mean, basically the Sicily's got weather like here in Southern California or in Florida,

00:04:46   right?

00:04:47   It's southerly, it's warm, it's perfect for oranges.

00:04:52   But they also had the thing called, well, they did grapefruit juice too, which I like

00:04:59   grapefruit juice not as much as I like orange juice.

00:05:01   But they also had a nectars, like apricot nectar and stuff like that, which was awesome.

00:05:07   So it was different.

00:05:09   But yeah.

00:05:10   Do you ever have a Sicilian blood orange?

00:05:12   Oh, yeah.

00:05:13   Isn't that good?

00:05:15   Yeah.

00:05:16   So my favorite bar here, the place I never shut up about on Twitter, Hopsing Laundromat.

00:05:23   Yeah.

00:05:24   Seasonally, because they only get them when they're fresh, is they have a Sicilian blood

00:05:29   orange.

00:05:30   Yeah.

00:05:31   and it is it might be the greatest it might be the best cocktail I've ever had

00:05:36   it's a yeah the first time you you know somebody says I you know I got to try a

00:05:40   blood orange you know how much better could it be you know really it's you

00:05:43   know it's an orange right oh yeah it's a little different color oh my god it's

00:05:49   it's you know what it's almost like it should have a different name like yeah

00:05:53   yeah it's like it's like it the difference between a grapefruit and an

00:05:57   orange yeah I would say so Wow right it is it is almost it's almost does it a

00:06:03   disservice by calling it a blood orange and it's kind of stupid it's kind of a

00:06:07   stupid thing because it's called an orange because it's orange you know

00:06:09   yeah yeah this is interesting the city that I used to live in in Italy has this

00:06:17   battle once a year just before carnival but you know before Lent and they

00:06:25   They basically have truckloads of blood oranges come up from Sicily, and they have a big-ass

00:06:33   orange fight.

00:06:34   There's these guys in carts that are throwing oranges down at the guys standing on the street,

00:06:39   and these guys in the street are throwing oranges up at the guys in the cart.

00:06:43   And they trot these carts around through the city, and for two or three days, there's

00:06:52   these different teams fighting against each other in this orange fight.

00:06:55   And they're throwing all these delicious blood oranges around.

00:07:00   It's like, yeah, kind of like to eat some of those.

00:07:04   Of course, you do eat quite a few of them, but you definitely get your fill.

00:07:07   But they are totally different.

00:07:09   Just amazing.

00:07:10   Dave Asprey Absolutely.

00:07:11   I would say bottom line from this entire parenthetical preamble is anybody out there who's never

00:07:17   had a blood orange, especially I think a Sicilian blood orange, but if you've never had one

00:07:22   And always thought ads just a different color. Don't you really you got to try it? Yeah. Yeah, definitely

00:07:27   Wearables that's what I want to talk to you. Yeah. Yeah, and it's funny because I was thinking about it

00:07:36   anyway, because you wrote a piece on

00:07:38   Furbo for bow org your

00:07:41   Web blog

00:07:46   About you know Apple and you know apples rumored entry into this field and then it just so happens

00:07:52   I guess yesterday was it yesterday or Monday that the Google announced the Android where yeah. Yeah, it was yesterday

00:07:59   Yeah, I had to get that thing up

00:08:02   I mean I've been thinking about this for a long time

00:08:04   And you know ever since they started hearing about it the d11 Tim Cook made drop some mentions of it

00:08:12   you know they've hired some people and you know I've been and it's

00:08:15   it's I

00:08:17   I mean, my timing was awesome as far as the Google Wear thing is concerned, but I was

00:08:22   like this is going to happen sooner rather than later.

00:08:26   I need to get this up and out there and get my ideas up.

00:08:29   We're going to spoil the hell out of it on this podcast.

00:08:31   So I would say this is one of those moments on the podcast where I would recommend to

00:08:36   you as a listener if you've got time.

00:08:38   Now if you're driving a car, don't try to read an article.

00:08:42   We'll just keep going.

00:08:43   Read it later.

00:08:44   They think a car play, they can read it to them.

00:08:48   - If you can pause the show and go read,

00:08:51   just go to Furbo.org and it just says Wearing Apple.

00:08:55   You can Google it and read it,

00:08:58   and then the rest of the show will be more like

00:09:00   commentary on it rather than spoiling it for you.

00:09:03   'Cause you make a lot of good points.

00:09:04   I actually have a draft of a piece,

00:09:08   I still might write it, but sort of like how I wrote about

00:09:12   the tablet before Apple came out with the iPad,

00:09:15   and we even knew what it was called,

00:09:17   which was a long, like months-long simmering thing

00:09:21   that eventually congealed into an article.

00:09:24   I have something like that about this too.

00:09:26   - One of the reasons I wrote it is hoping

00:09:28   that it would spur you on a little bit

00:09:31   to get your thoughts out as well.

00:09:34   'Cause I know you've been thinking about it as well.

00:09:36   I mean, every time you write something on Daring Fireball

00:09:38   about those ugly-ass watches that are coming out,

00:09:41   like okay he's thinking come I don't know if you're thinking the same thing I am but well a lot of

00:09:47   there's obviously some thought there and a lot of it I am and and part of it too I like this too

00:09:52   because it's not like I've got one key idea like oh I've got this one light bulb that went off in

00:10:00   my head and it's a precious little thought and I can't wait to put it in an article and I hope

00:10:03   nobody spoils it by you know thinking of the same thing and beating me to it it's not that sort of

00:10:08   sort of thing. Like this is actually like – I'm so glad you wrote this because it

00:10:12   like crosses off a whole bunch of the little details and –

00:10:16   Yeah, that's when I started writing it. It's like, okay, there's all of these different

00:10:20   aspects to it. It's like you can't – it's really hard to crystallize that thought like

00:10:24   you're saying. There's that one little insight or it's like there's a whole bunch of things

00:10:30   that contribute to this notion of what to mean to wear a computer.

00:10:36   Yeah, and you could almost draw it and split it in half in terms of like this the stuff

00:10:42   this week where on the one hand there's specifically what about a computerized watch and I'm not

00:10:49   going to use the word smartwatch.

00:10:51   Well maybe I should but you know what do we got what if you have a little computer type

00:10:57   thing on your wrist and it's tells the time and that which is a whole argument right that's

00:11:02   whole thing. And then the separate one, which you cover, is what if you just zoom back a

00:11:07   little bit and you just think, what if it's not a watch? Right? What if it isn't? It may

00:11:11   not even be on the wrist. Like wearables is a much better catch-all.

00:11:16   Yeah.

00:11:19   But as specifically, like some of the things that I've been thinking about with a watch

00:11:22   in particular, and maybe I've mentioned these on past shows, but there's so many little

00:11:26   things. Like for one thing, it has to be at least as good a watch as a regular watch.

00:11:32   a real watch. Like even, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money. Even if you

00:11:37   just go into Macy's and buy a Fossil watch for $30 or a Timex for $25 or something like

00:11:47   that. It has to be at least as good as that, right? Just for telling the time, if you're

00:11:52   going to call it a watch.

00:11:53   Right.

00:11:54   And a lot of these cheaper watches look pretty good too, right?

00:11:56   Oh, absolutely.

00:11:57   They've gotten it down to a science.

00:12:00   Well, actually I think they have to because it's such a long-standing product category

00:12:12   and people have such associations with it and so much ground has been covered by classic

00:12:18   watch designs that there's...

00:12:22   Even in the mass market, like I said, $30, $40, $50 watch range, there's so much competition

00:12:30   and everybody has these ideas of what a good watch looks like that an ugly watch is just

00:12:38   – it's never going to sell even at any price point.

00:12:42   Which is not to say that everybody – that there's not a wide range of designs and that

00:12:47   what one person considers a good looking watch is anything at all like what another person

00:12:51   does, which is also partly what makes this field so complicated.

00:12:57   Right. Well, that's where the whole fashion comes in, right? It's like, you know, you

00:13:04   take a company like Swatch, right? How many models of Swatch are there? I don't know.

00:13:11   It's got to be thousands, maybe tens of thousands of different models. And they all look different.

00:13:18   They all have a little certain thing about them.

00:13:21   I would bet they probably have like hundreds but yes, you know in terms of like if you bought one of every swatch brand

00:13:28   Watch from the last 20 or 30 years. It's almost I'll bet it's thousands. Yeah. Yeah, exactly

00:13:35   And and the reason that that they're able to continue doing that is because they're constantly modifying the design right there

00:13:42   It's there's some fashion element to it

00:13:44   I mean I can tell you that a swatch you buy today doesn't look like a swatch you bought in the 80s, right?

00:13:49   Absolutely, you know that's very swatch is a big conglomerate. They actually I forget they own a couple of brands, but the one

00:13:56   Big brand that they own is Omega. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that they would they were a spin-off

00:14:04   Of you know one of those traditional watchmakers that

00:14:09   Wanted to get go down market with their product, right? You know, they were selling watches that cost

00:14:15   You know thousands or hundreds of dollars. Well, here's one, you know

00:14:18   For 50 bucks a hundred bucks

00:14:20   You know, it's it's a pretty classic

00:14:24   Maneuver, you know once you've dominated the higher end of the market what Apple does, right?

00:14:30   Yeah

00:14:30   well the history of the watch industry is kind of interesting because they they they got hit with a massive disruption in the 70s and

00:14:37   Then actually recovered so prior to the 70s all wristwatches were mechanical devices

00:14:45   You know, they weren't battery operated you have to wind them or you know at the higher end they were automatic

00:14:50   meaning that the movement of your wrist as you walk through the day would keep the

00:14:55   Whatever the thing is called the movement. Yeah

00:14:58   something spring wound up

00:15:01   so as long as you wore the watch it would stay wound or you could buy like a fancy like a metronome type thing to

00:15:07   Automatically keep your automatic watches powered up, but they were mechanical devices

00:15:13   And then when the quartz movement was invented,

00:15:17   I think at least it came to the mass market in the '70s.

00:15:19   I don't know why, but it was probably invented in the '60s.

00:15:21   - From Japan, actually.

00:15:23   - Right.

00:15:23   - All of a sudden, you could make a dead accurate,

00:15:30   spot-on accurate wristwatch for way, way lower in price.

00:15:35   And it used to be that the accuracy of a wristwatch

00:15:39   correlated roughly with the price,

00:15:41   where the more you spent, the more accurate it was.

00:15:44   But even the top ones were only accurate,

00:15:47   like a really good, accurate, high-end mechanical watches,

00:15:50   maybe plus or minus three, four seconds a day.

00:15:53   And that's considered very accurate.

00:15:56   Quartz watches, as you know,

00:16:00   they're effectively little tiny computer chips.

00:16:03   - Right, the quartz crystals is what powers

00:16:06   every single one of our devices.

00:16:07   Right.

00:16:08   And so they're accurate to the second.

00:16:11   So all of a sudden there's no correlation between accuracy and price.

00:16:15   That you got to watch for $9.99 and it won't lose a second as long as the battery has power.

00:16:23   And the bottom just dropped out of the traditional watch market.

00:16:27   Yeah, Seiko was a very dominant company during that period of time because they embraced

00:16:35   didn't brought all sorts of good-looking watches that were accurate and cheap to

00:16:39   the market. Right and they used to you know Seiko was is a long-standing brand

00:16:45   in Japan but you know prior to the quartz movement they made mechanical

00:16:50   movements and I think you know for the large part the Swiss watch industry and

00:16:55   somebody will probably cry I'm not a super big watch expert but somebody

00:16:59   offered me a norm I yeah I think in broad strokes though that the Swiss

00:17:02   Yeah, watch industry put their heads in the sand regarding quartz watches and saw that it is beneath them and not something they had to worry

00:17:09   About but the sales of their watches tanked

00:17:12   But then they got their acts together and they've sort of regrouped and you know now, you know Rolex is humongous

00:17:20   But you know all sorts of high-end

00:17:22   You know multi thousand dollar wristwatches are very very successful today and they're you know, they're mechanical

00:17:29   there's still you know that it's but it's it's obviously like it's a

00:17:33   Only a small percentage of watch buyers still buy mechanical watches

00:17:38   But those that do are willing to buy spend a premium on it

00:17:40   Well, and and everybody knows that they spend a premium that's part of the part of the deal right at the status symbol

00:17:46   It's something that you know

00:17:48   You know you if you're wearing an Omega Speedmaster, I know how much you spent on it, right?

00:17:54   There's there's some

00:17:58   Sub thoughts within that you can keep you can go like a layer of of

00:18:02   Recursion deeper and then there's some watch nerds who want to buy a watch that

00:18:08   Nobody knows is a really good watch except other watch nerds. Yeah, right. Yeah

00:18:15   But it's like anything that you can get into collecting like that where you know

00:18:19   You can keep going deeper and deeper and deeper, but it's it's certainly a thing

00:18:24   And I think if you're going to talk about smartwatches,

00:18:28   you cannot ignore the fact

00:18:30   that this is a long established market.

00:18:32   - Yeah, and it's dominated by craftsmen

00:18:38   who've been honing their craft for centuries.

00:18:44   Yeah, they took a hit when the Japanese came out with Quartz,

00:18:51   but they still were making exceptional product

00:18:55   and they knew it.

00:18:56   I mean, maybe that's kind of the reason

00:18:57   they were thinking we got nothing to worry about.

00:19:00   - Right.

00:19:01   - Maybe this is just a fad.

00:19:02   Who knows, maybe they had something like that

00:19:06   at the turn of the century when mechanical processes

00:19:09   allowed mechanical watches to be made on an assembly line.

00:19:14   I mean, I'm not a scholar of watch history enough

00:19:18   to say that's true or not,

00:19:20   But I mean, if you've been in business for centuries,

00:19:23   you're going to have had competitive landscape changes

00:19:28   over that period of time.

00:19:35   - It reminds me of this great quote from Upton Sinclair.

00:19:38   "It is difficult to get a man to understand something

00:19:41   "when his job depends on not understanding it."

00:19:44   - Yes, yeah.

00:19:46   - Right, and so if your job depends on,

00:19:49   if you're a mechanical watchmaker and you you know make these watches by hand or you know

00:19:55   Or even if you're not the watchmaker if you run the company and your whole operation is built on

00:19:59   You know employing a staff of trained craftsmen who make these produce hand produce these intricate

00:20:07   watch movements

00:20:09   It's difficult to understand that you've you know, possibly just been your whole the whole

00:20:17   Thing is possibly wiped out by a little Japanese

00:20:20   Electronical gadget. Yeah, you're ripe for this disruption, right? You're

00:20:27   You're blindsided by your your history

00:20:30   Yeah

00:20:33   you know every every story of disruption is at some point a story about

00:20:37   An entrenched market leader who's in denial

00:20:43   You know and you you make point is your point that you made in your story or one of the first ones is that?

00:20:49   However talented apples designers are and they're very does this is agree that they're very very talented. Yeah. Yeah, there's no doubt that

00:20:57   They're going to be competing is what your words they're going to be competing against craftsmen

00:21:01   who've been refining their craft since the 15th century and then you say I know this sounds a lot like

00:21:07   Then palm CEO Ed Colligan. I think it was like December 2006

00:21:13   when somebody asked a hate they say apples coming out with a phony worried and he said

00:21:17   PC guys are not just are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in and

00:21:23   There is and you know you point out like look. I'm not trying to be foolish here and underestimate Apple

00:21:29   But this is very different right cell phones were not in the grand scheme of things are still brand new right they only came out in

00:21:37   the 1980s

00:21:38   they've only been around for 30 years and

00:21:41   Nobody ever really loved any of them. I mean, you know like when the first

00:21:45   flip phones came out like the razor

00:21:48   You know, everybody agreed that hey, this is a step forward and it's the best phone on the market

00:21:54   But there were better industrial design. Yeah

00:21:57   Smaller lighter great, but yeah

00:22:01   crappy UI

00:22:03   You can't go to you don't go to an auction at Christie's and buy

00:22:10   buy a 50 year old cell phone for

00:22:13   $220,000 right whereas

00:22:16   Right, but that's what yeah exactly. Yeah, people will go and buy like a vintage, you know

00:22:22   You know watch from 50 60 70 years ago and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's the market that

00:22:29   That Apple's entering

00:22:32   If they're gonna make a watch and think about it, here's it here's a point that I've been thinking about is this

00:22:38   When Apple decides to do something any any of the products that they make I

00:22:43   Don't think they ever

00:22:47   Get involved with something or do something whether it's a long-standing product like desktop computers or

00:22:53   For Apple long-standing or something brand new like when they created the iPhone in 2007

00:23:00   They don't get involved unless they can honestly look at it themselves and say this is the best one on the market

00:23:06   Yep, right. This is the phone that I want. Yeah

00:23:12   Everybody I know who works at Apple. I don't know a single person at Apple who doesn't use an iPhone

00:23:18   I've never if there is there's somebody at Apple without it

00:23:20   I don't know them but it's not because well if they if they are not using an iPhone

00:23:26   It's because their job depends on them doing competitive analysis or something like that, right?

00:23:32   It's like I'm sure there's somebody at Apple who carries around a Windows phone just so they know all about Windows phone

00:23:37   Right, but that's bad. That's that's yeah, that's like point. Oh one percent of the company either that or they're on like probation like they

00:23:46   They're being punished

00:23:50   You know they missed the you didn't meet your quotas last year John

00:24:01   Who knows you know there could be I if there's any kind of weird pockets like that

00:24:06   You know who knows so it could be there could be like in Apple's legal department some BlackBerry holdouts or something like that. You know

00:24:12   But it's clearly the exception yeah, but there's no

00:24:16   They did and and I'm not trying to say that you can get that saying that the iPhone is the best phone

00:24:23   Or that the Mac Pro is the best desktop workstation class computer

00:24:30   That those things are anything but subjective clearly there are some people who would argue and could you you know argue?

00:24:37   reasonably and and make a great argument that

00:24:41   Such-and-such think pad is the best laptop computer available today, you know or?

00:24:47   You know that there's other brands that make good phones and stuff like that

00:24:52   You could you could make a case that you know, if you really like the the big phablet size phones that the

00:24:58   Galaxy Note is the best phone today.

00:25:01   But people who work at Apple, you know,

00:25:03   and tend to have, not that they all have identical taste,

00:25:07   but they're, you know, they're coming at it

00:25:08   from a sort of Apple-type viewpoint.

00:25:10   It's not like Apple is universal.

00:25:13   - Right. - Apple has a--

00:25:14   - They have a shared aesthetic about--

00:25:17   - Right. - What is good

00:25:18   and what is bad, right?

00:25:19   It's, you know, you wanna work at Apple

00:25:22   because you love the products they make.

00:25:24   So it's kind of, you know, it's a little bit self-selecting,

00:25:27   But yeah.

00:25:28   - Right, so when I say that if Apple is gonna make a phone,

00:25:33   it's gonna be the best phone.

00:25:35   I don't mean that everybody on the face of the Earth

00:25:37   is gonna look at it and agree that's the best phone.

00:25:40   But I do think it's very,

00:25:41   you know, that for the iPhone to be successful,

00:25:43   it had to be the sort of thing where everybody at Apple

00:25:46   would look at it and say, oh yeah, that's the best phone.

00:25:48   I gotta get one of those.

00:25:49   How do they do, if they make a watch,

00:25:54   and emphasizing not just a wearable device, but a watch.

00:25:59   How do they do that?

00:26:00   How do they say that's the best watch

00:26:02   in a world where there's Rolex, Omega?

00:26:06   You know, it was just--

00:26:09   - I mean, Tim Cook wears a fuel band, right?

00:26:12   You know, and he loves it.

00:26:14   He said on stage, it's like, oh, this is, you know,

00:26:17   Nike did a great job with this.

00:26:18   Well, okay.

00:26:20   - You know, I know, I just, you know, I notice it.

00:26:23   I know that Johnny Ive is clearly, he's like a watch guy.

00:26:27   And it even said in the article that just came out

00:26:30   over the weekend, it was in Time,

00:26:32   was reprinted from the London Sunday Times Magazine,

00:26:36   where the writer of the article even mentioned

00:26:38   that he was wearing, Johnny Ive was wearing,

00:26:40   I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation here,

00:26:43   Jaeger-Leh-Cotere.

00:26:45   It's spelled J-A-E-G-E-R-L-E-C-O-U-L-T-R-E.

00:26:52   I haven't, these are, it's a fantastic watch brand,

00:26:55   but I mean these are like, I think,

00:26:58   starting at like 10, 15, $20,000 for a new one.

00:27:02   - That sounds about right.

00:27:03   Yeah.

00:27:05   - And I forget the other thing.

00:27:06   - That's what I say, you know,

00:27:08   how can Apple be best of breed in that market?

00:27:10   I just, you know.

00:27:12   - Apple doesn't do things for them,

00:27:15   meaning let's make a tablet for dummies, right?

00:27:20   We'll keep using our MacBooks and MacBook Airs

00:27:25   and MacBook Pros, but let's make a computer for dummies

00:27:29   and we'll make it with a touch interface.

00:27:32   That's not how they made the iPad.

00:27:34   They made the iPad, 'cause they wanted an iPad.

00:27:38   They don't make it for others.

00:27:40   They didn't make a cellphone,

00:27:42   well, we'll make a cellphone for them,

00:27:45   but we'll keep using our Blackberries

00:27:47   for our messaging and stuff like that.

00:27:49   No, they made a phone that they could do everything

00:27:52   they wanted to do on a phone, right?

00:27:54   They weren't gonna make a phone that just played music

00:27:56   because they were the iPod company.

00:28:00   They were gonna make the phone that they wanted to make.

00:28:02   If they were to make a watch,

00:28:04   it would have to be the sort of watch that would make,

00:28:06   you know, that Johnny Ive himself would say,

00:28:08   I'm not gonna wear this $20,000 Algertil luck

00:28:11   could tear anymore, I'm gonna wear this.

00:28:14   I don't know how you do that.

00:28:14   - Yep, yep.

00:28:16   - I'm not saying they can't.

00:28:17   Yeah, that's, we're thinking the exact same thing here.

00:28:22   It's just they're, part of the problem too

00:28:27   is the market's too broad, right?

00:28:29   If you got a fuel band, you know,

00:28:34   you've got a fuel band for a reason.

00:28:35   You're, you know, you run every day

00:28:38   or you swim every day or whatever

00:28:40   and that's, you know, that's something important to you.

00:28:42   You know, Johnny Ive loves great design, right?

00:28:45   So, he's gonna go out and spend $20,000 on a kick-ass watch.

00:28:50   What's the fuel bank cost?

00:28:55   Probably 100 bucks or thereabouts.

00:28:57   $100 to $20,000, that's a huge range

00:29:02   in that product category.

00:29:04   And to be honest,

00:29:13   Another aspect to it is that the younger generation, you know, the ones that kind of, I mean, young

00:29:24   people have a lot of disposable income, right? They're always the ones that define fashion

00:29:30   trends, right? That kind of point the culture in a certain direction. None of them wear

00:29:40   watches.

00:29:41   That's true.

00:29:42   it's not a it's a you know us old folks wear them we're by none I don't I don't

00:29:48   wear one anymore I used to I mean I used to love watches I I don't you know I've

00:29:53   got a watch on my lock screen yeah I think it's I think it's pretty drastic

00:29:57   and I actually think it's probably I would suspect pretty worrisome for the

00:30:03   you know the mass-market watch brands I think that the ones the type of brands

00:30:08   that that well they they should be concerned but maybe not overly concerned

00:30:14   of the truly high-end jewelry type watches the Rolex, the Amigas, the you

00:30:20   know that level because that's that they have that whole status symbol type. It's

00:30:24   artwork doesn't go out of style. Right. Piece of fine art right it's like what

00:30:28   you were saying earlier right it's like just you know you're not gonna see that

00:30:34   crappy cell phone on Antiques Roadshow in 20 years but you know a fine piece of

00:30:41   artwork yeah that's something that's ageless. It's the same way that like most of us

00:30:45   don't wear neckties on a daily basis a lot fewer people than ever before

00:30:50   you know grown men wear a necktie to go to work but you can still buy a tie and

00:30:56   you still look everybody looks good you know when they get dressed up and a nice

00:31:01   Just watch when you are dressed up.

00:31:03   It makes you look even better.

00:31:05   I mean, you write an article.

00:31:07   It's not just status.

00:31:08   It's fashion too.

00:31:09   Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:31:10   Exactly.

00:31:11   All right, let's take a break.

00:31:14   We've got tons and tons more, but I got to take a break.

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00:34:44   What else on watches just watch it before we get into wearables hit so you you mentioned this

00:34:49   The display right? What's the biggest battery?

00:34:53   Drain on the iPhone. It's the display, right? Yeah

00:34:58   It's a huge problem. So

00:35:02   Everybody glosses everybody who makes these mock-ups glosses over this, you know, like when people make what do they call those?

00:35:10   spec designs like

00:35:13   Yeah, the comps the

00:35:15   Concept. Yeah link to one. It was like here's the watch Google. Here's the watch. It was like a bird bird story

00:35:22   Here's the watch that Google and Apple have to make

00:35:25   And what the accurate headline would be here's a really cool idea for a watch that Apple and Google couldn't make

00:35:34   Here's a frickin pipe dream

00:35:39   (laughing)

00:35:42   But like when you look at a regular traditional wristwatch,

00:35:46   anytime you glance at your wrist, you can see the time.

00:35:48   Because there is no, you know, it's just hands.

00:35:51   As long as there's light, you can see it.

00:35:53   And if you have something like the Timex Indiglo

00:35:56   or something like that, you hit a button and it lights up

00:35:59   and you can always see the time.

00:36:00   Whereas if it's any kind of LCDs display,

00:36:05   you can't, unless somebody's invented something

00:36:09   that I'm not aware of.

00:36:09   You can't keep it on all the time.

00:36:12   And if it's not on all the time,

00:36:13   now it's not as good a watch.

00:36:15   - And you can't make it motion sensitive

00:36:17   because we're always moving around.

00:36:19   - Right. - Right?

00:36:20   It's, you gotta have some sort of interaction

00:36:23   or some sort of movement that triggers it to go on,

00:36:27   and it's probably gonna be you touching it.

00:36:29   - So, so-- - It's a two-handed device,

00:36:31   other words.

00:36:32   - Pebble, along with several other, you know,

00:36:36   entries in the current crop of smartwatches,

00:36:40   uses E Ink instead of an LCD display

00:36:43   so that they can be on all the time

00:36:45   without draining a battery really quickly.

00:36:48   But the E Ink is A, it looks like 1996.

00:36:53   Really, I have said this before,

00:36:56   but I just can't emphasize it enough.

00:36:58   When I look at my Pebble watch,

00:37:00   it looks to me like I'm wearing something from Palm in 1996

00:37:04   that got taken to the future.

00:37:06   And that's not, I don't mean that in a complimentary way.

00:37:08   I mean it in a, it really looks and feels

00:37:11   like 20-year-old technology.

00:37:13   Black and white screen with visible pixels,

00:37:17   it just seems ridiculous.

00:37:19   Plus, it's not-- - Yeah, yeah, do you think--

00:37:21   Go ahead.

00:37:22   - The contrast is so low that it's hard to read anyway.

00:37:25   - Yeah, do you see Apple adopting any kind of e-ink

00:37:29   technology in its current state?

00:37:30   - No.

00:37:31   - I don't at all.

00:37:32   - No.

00:37:33   It's just...

00:37:37   I think it has a lot of promise in the future, right?

00:37:40   The density is going to increase.

00:37:42   There'll probably be a retina E-ink display at some point in time.

00:37:47   There weren't retina LCD displays initially.

00:37:50   It's taken since the '80s to now in order for that technology to mature, right?

00:37:57   It would have to be a lot closer, a lot closer to the actual quality of print.

00:38:04   Real printed ink on paper.

00:38:06   I'm not even ruling out that there could be, that Apple could in theory someday do something

00:38:11   using some kind of monochromatic.

00:38:15   It's not just the black and white.

00:38:17   It's the nature of pebbles black and white.

00:38:19   To me, it's low contrast.

00:38:22   It looks very, very digital.

00:38:26   It doesn't look like ink on paper at all.

00:38:31   I recognize that that's a feature that the screen can be on.

00:38:34   The display is on all the time and doesn't have to go off.

00:38:37   But they also – they do have a thing.

00:38:39   They have like a backlight and they do have a motion detector for it.

00:38:43   But you have to kind of like – so that it doesn't go off all the time, you have to

00:38:46   like kind of flick it.

00:38:48   And it works and it's a pretty accurate flick detector.

00:38:52   But I don't know.

00:38:53   The days I've spent trying to wear the Pebble watch all day,

00:38:56   it's just, you feel like a jerk flicking your, you know.

00:38:58   (laughing)

00:38:59   - Yeah.

00:39:00   - I don't know, it looks like you have like spasms

00:39:02   or something.

00:39:02   - Right, it doesn't, it just doesn't seem

00:39:05   like a mass market product to me, right?

00:39:07   It's just, I, you know, yes, as geeks with like a new shiny

00:39:11   kind of pushing the boundaries toy, this is kind of cool.

00:39:15   We're living in the future here.

00:39:18   Could I see my sister-in-law who, you know,

00:39:21   Loves her iPhone.

00:39:23   Could I see her buying something like that?

00:39:25   No way.

00:39:25   Well, and not to open it up

00:39:27   into the whole Google Glass direction,

00:39:30   but from a lot of people, and I realize not everybody,

00:39:33   nothing is everybody, but for a lot of people,

00:39:36   watches in general share a lot with glasses,

00:39:40   and especially sunglasses, but eyeglasses,

00:39:43   all sorts of eyeglasses, where people want to get,

00:39:47   pick one that speaks to them design-wise.

00:39:51   That, you know, for a lot of people,

00:39:54   a lot of people would say whether it's a watch

00:39:56   or sunglasses or eyeglasses, they want one that looks cool.

00:40:00   - Yeah, it's self-expression, it's self-expression.

00:40:03   - Clearly, the word cool is maybe the most subjective word

00:40:07   in late 20th century, early 21st century

00:40:12   Western civilization, you know.

00:40:13   It cool is what every, you know.

00:40:15   What you think?

00:40:17   - Yeah, cool is what you think when you see it, right?

00:40:21   It's all about you.

00:40:22   - Right, but I'll tell you what,

00:40:25   when you're wearing Google,

00:40:26   like the idea of a heads-up display, kinda cool.

00:40:29   What you look like wearing Google Glass, not cool.

00:40:33   You do not look cool.

00:40:35   Nobody is gonna wanna,

00:40:36   nobody wants to wear a watch that isn't cool.

00:40:39   And I'll tell you what, the Pebble is not cool.

00:40:41   And flicking your wrist to get the backlight to go on,

00:40:44   not cool.

00:40:45   It's like anti-cool.

00:40:48   But then what do you do?

00:40:49   I feel like it's just right there.

00:40:52   It just seems to me like so many people speculating on what Apple would do or what a good smart

00:40:57   watch would do.

00:40:58   Just glance right over that, which is like the elephant in the room where the whole point

00:41:03   of these smart watches is that they have a display.

00:41:07   But how do you power a display all day on a battery that fits in a watch?

00:41:12   And if you don't have it displayed all day, then what do you have?

00:41:15   Just have a black screen on your wrist all day.

00:41:22   For me, it's – I want it, whatever kind of wearable, to be unobtrusive.

00:41:31   I think those are the ones that succeed the most.

00:41:35   I mean, you want something that can provide you

00:41:40   the information and not be in your face about it.

00:41:46   I mean, that's the thing I see with these quote unquote

00:41:49   smartwatches that are coming out.

00:41:52   It's like, hey, look what I've got, right?

00:41:54   I've got a big ass piece of technology on my wrist.

00:41:57   I don't want that, right?

00:42:01   I don't want that no more than I wanted a flip phone

00:42:04   with all sorts of bells and whistles on it, right?

00:42:07   One of the things that attracted us all

00:42:08   to the initial iPhone was the simplicity of it.

00:42:12   Here's just a piece of glass, one button.

00:42:14   It does awesome stuff.

00:42:17   A wearable, you know, I look at the wearables

00:42:24   that are successful in my, and in my mind,

00:42:26   that they're the things like the Fitbits

00:42:29   and the Nike Fuel bands,

00:42:31   And they don't have fancy displays, right?

00:42:36   You know, it's, and it's,

00:42:38   in a lot of cases, the technology can actually be hidden,

00:42:44   right, especially in the Fitbits, those, the clip-ons.

00:42:47   - Yeah, I wouldn't even call it a display,

00:42:48   it's more like indicators, right?

00:42:50   - Yeah, it's a fancy LED, right?

00:42:54   And that for me is the direction I,

00:43:01   I could see Apple going, right?

00:43:03   Going with that simplicity, keeping,

00:43:06   trying to figure out what people want,

00:43:08   not what kind of technology they can deploy.

00:43:14   I look at one of the problems that I have with my iPhone

00:43:21   is actually getting notified.

00:43:25   Either the buzzer goes off in my pocket

00:43:30   I don't notice that it has or even sometimes the audio cues.

00:43:37   You don't hear them while they're in your pocket or if you're in a noisy room or outside

00:43:42   standing in traffic.

00:43:43   Yeah, I think the –

00:43:44   It also starts going on.

00:43:45   It's like there's – I think there's an opportunity there for notifications to

00:43:51   be better basically.

00:43:55   Part of it is that the buzzer – wasn't there a thing – I might be misremembering.

00:44:00   which model it was, but there was a model year of the iPhone where they switched to a new technology for the vibrating the vibrator

00:44:07   Mm-hmm like based on you know, I didn't even know there was were competing technologies

00:44:12   But based on like the iFixit tear down, but then they went back to the previous one

00:44:17   I think with the five and I think they're still using the that one with the 5s

00:44:20   I don't know if it's that that it just doesn't vibrate hard enough

00:44:23   I don't know if the nerves in my upper right thigh have gone numb. Yeah

00:44:29   Exactly, but I I miss calls all the time now

00:44:33   I really do if I especially if I have it on silent, you know

00:44:37   Because and I you know, I often do have my phone on silent when I go somewhere where I definitely don't want it to make

00:44:42   a noise

00:44:43   I miss the vibe. I I miss the vibrations meaning I

00:44:47   Don't feel them. So imagine there being something like a ring or a clip or something. That's you know

00:44:56   Not in your pocket basically, I mean I see the opportunity here is to get out of the pocket with some sort of device

00:45:03   It's attached to the thing that's in the pocket right you know it's a bridge between the outside and inside

00:45:08   You know I look at it a

00:45:13   Lot of women I know

00:45:15   Where their Fitbit attached to the their bra right in between the the two cups

00:45:21   That's a very common place for women to

00:45:25   Put the fifth bit it's out of the way, you know, they're gonna add it easy. It's secure

00:45:29   You know

00:45:31   Maybe apples wearable is something that you clip to your bra. I mean

00:45:36   Right the the male tech industry will totally ignore that and go on

00:45:41   No way because you know, it's that that male egotism just you know, but hey, this is half the population

00:45:47   They're gonna have a problem that you don't have right? They don't have pockets like we do

00:45:53   unless they're wearing jeans I

00:45:55   Don't know. Well, I couldn't see them doing that unless so you could also clip it to pants or something. Yeah, but but but that

00:46:01   Hey Caleb, guess what? No leave it on

00:46:06   What's your dog's name? What's his name? That's best Pico Pico. Come here. Come here

00:46:11   My brother-in-law's coming home from work. So that's why he's all excited

00:46:18   Pico I like Pico. Yeah, he's a small dog hints. It's an engineering kind of

00:46:24   Pico nano. Yeah, like the text. Oh, yeah

00:46:28   So, yeah, you know that a

00:46:33   Lot of people latched on to this this thing I wrote said oh, yeah

00:46:37   Chalk is is predicting an eye ring. No, it's like all I'm saying is let's think about things that could be I

00:46:44   Love think about yeah

00:46:47   He's noisy. He sort of has that chalk personality.

00:46:51   Keep going. Just ignore him. I say we go with him.

00:46:55   Okay. So the idea is to start thinking about things that are not around your wrist. It's not

00:47:05   to think, okay, it's going to be a ring. It may be something you clip on. It may be some sort of

00:47:09   necklace. It's just, you know, think about it as something that is not wrist bound,

00:47:17   right? There are a lot of opportunities there.

00:47:20   Right? It's all like, to me, it's like you said, it's not necessarily that you're

00:47:27   predicting a ring. That was like your what if, like, what if it's not a watch? And you're just

00:47:32   saying, what if it were a ring? What could it do? Well, it could get your heartbeat. It could

00:47:38   vibrate a little bit and you'd notice it. One thing I saw from you was, or when

00:47:47   people responding to your thing, if it is a watch what's your thoughts on how they

00:47:53   would do sizing? Would it be like a thing that did like the way that some like you

00:47:58   can kind of like adjust a keyring or would it be that you'd have you know

00:48:01   you'd get one in a certain size? I think Apple's pretty damn awesome at

00:48:06   manufacturing stuff out of aluminum these days. Typically what happens with a

00:48:13   ring is that you have the main design and the sizing is just done by adding or

00:48:18   removing a little bit of metal at the junction point at the bottom of

00:48:23   the ring. And you know maybe it's something some sort of manufacturing

00:48:29   process. Yeah obviously you know a lot of people say well you know it sounds like

00:48:34   you're making a problem that's harder than a wristband for a watch.

00:48:37   That's true, but the watch has a lot of other issues.

00:48:44   Again, these are just things that could be useful.

00:48:53   One of the things that I really see as an opportunity for this kind of wearable device

00:48:59   is for, you know, the iBeacons has come out in iOS 7 and it's, a lot of people don't really

00:49:06   understand what it is, but basically your phone can pick up these little Bluetooth low-energy

00:49:14   signals that are being emanated by these devices. Now, say, for example, you've got one of these

00:49:21   beacons around your finger or around your chest or whatever, iOS devices can know when

00:49:28   you're nearby. It's a unique ID, it's a globally unique identifier and that

00:49:33   number can be transmitted to the iOS device and... Nearby is actually

00:49:40   pretty specifically measured. Yeah, it's, you know, it's accurate to

00:49:45   within inches. It's, you know, it's a couple feet. It's not like, you

00:49:52   know, the government's gonna be tracking you because you've got this ring on.

00:49:56   I mean, somebody, Tim Van Dam actually from, I think he's at Dropbox now, he used to be

00:50:07   at Instagram and Facebook and a bunch of other places.

00:50:11   He had a really interesting idea, one of the things is, you know, imagine getting into

00:50:14   a rental car with this device on and all of a sudden it knows what music you like, right?

00:50:22   You know, it's the, you know, the iOS device in the car recognizes your ring's ID number,

00:50:38   goes to iTunes and, you know, starts streaming music off your iTunes, iTunes match account.

00:50:47   Right.

00:50:48   For example.

00:50:49   Or from your preferences for iTunes radio.

00:50:52   Yeah, exactly. It's, you know, or maybe it knows, oh, you've got some podcasts you need

00:50:57   to listen to here. You want to listen to these.

00:50:59   Like, you know who I do not want to be? I do not. I would not want to be Sirius XM,

00:51:06   because Sirius XM, which we have in our car, and it's kind of a cool idea, and I think it's

00:51:12   in a lot of ways better than terrestrial radio, but they're stuck with their satellites.

00:51:15   Yeah.

00:51:16   I forget what the kilobit per second is, but it's pretty bad. And I have bad ears. Like,

00:51:22   Like I've mentioned this on the talk show, you know,

00:51:25   recurringly, I don't have good hearing.

00:51:27   I don't have audiophile.

00:51:29   I don't even know the opposite.

00:51:30   I mean, I come from a long line of Gruber men

00:51:32   who go half deaf by the time they're getting older.

00:51:35   But even I can hear that Sirius XM music

00:51:40   is really compressed.

00:51:42   - Yeah, it's crunchy.

00:51:44   - It's really pretty bad quality-wise.

00:51:47   And so, you know, and you can tell,

00:51:49   like when a good song comes on,

00:51:51   and you're in the mood for it and you turn it up,

00:51:53   it just sounds worse, right?

00:51:54   Like you did, that's sort of the worst thing you can say

00:51:57   about an in-car music technology is when a good song comes on

00:52:02   and you turn it up, it sounds worse.

00:52:04   'Cause you want the opposite.

00:52:06   Right now, I want this to sound great

00:52:08   because this is, I'm in the mood for this song.

00:52:11   - Yeah, but the thing is that that's another industry

00:52:15   that's ripe for getting killed by the data networks.

00:52:20   - The big thing is, most of the time, when I'm in my car,

00:52:24   I've already got a pretty high quality IP connection

00:52:29   in the car because my phone's with me.

00:52:32   And I realize that there are things like,

00:52:34   that most of us right now have a pretty,

00:52:37   relative to broadband at home,

00:52:40   we have a small data cap per month.

00:52:42   If you have an hour and a half commute

00:52:47   or something like that, you don't necessarily,

00:52:48   Right now, today, in 2014, you may not,

00:52:52   you might go over your data limit

00:52:53   if you were streaming high quality music

00:52:57   over your phone all the time when you're in a car.

00:53:00   But soon enough, within a few years,

00:53:02   that's not gonna be a problem.

00:53:04   - I can remember when a 10 megabyte hard drive

00:53:08   cost $5,000, right?

00:53:11   It's not that long ago, really.

00:53:15   So, you know, this is, you know, yeah, okay,

00:53:18   that's a problem, but it's a temporary problem.

00:53:20   I mean, that whole P cell thing looks like,

00:53:23   oh my God, that's awesome.

00:53:25   - Right, it's gonna be IP all the way.

00:53:27   - Right, right.

00:53:29   And, you know, so one of the Google Wear thing

00:53:34   came out yesterday and I had this insight that,

00:53:37   you know, one of the things that drew us

00:53:39   to the original iPhone was the fact that we could

00:53:42   touch the screen and directly manipulate it.

00:53:44   There was a very visceral connection there.

00:53:49   The first time you did slide to unlock, it's like, wow, this is freaking magic.

00:53:56   It really was.

00:53:58   But there's a problem now in that the devices aren't able to talk back to us other than

00:54:06   through audio, vibration, or display.

00:54:13   The idea of some sort of haptic feedback.

00:54:17   Have you ever heard that thing that Brett Victor wrote?

00:54:23   I think he called it a...

00:54:26   Here it is.

00:54:27   A brief rant on the future of interaction design.

00:54:30   And it's just really about how our devices, we can't feel them.

00:54:37   We really...

00:54:38   tactile of the vibration that the little motor inside of the iPhone makes, it's nothing.

00:54:45   It's the most that we get, but it's the best that we have.

00:54:50   Yeah, it's the best we have right now.

00:54:51   We love Slide to Unlock. You're right. Steve Jobs loved it. It is funny when you rewatch

00:54:58   that keynote. He demos Slide to Unlock a ridiculous amount of times.

00:55:06   Yeah.

00:55:06   But you don't feel a slider moving under your finger.

00:55:11   Exactly. It's like you can't feel it hit the end of that channel.

00:55:16   So the key...

00:55:17   You can't... You use the Apple remote and it's like...

00:55:21   Unless you're looking at the screen, sometimes you get lost.

00:55:24   I mean, it's one of the things that the BlackBerry people are still hanging out to.

00:55:29   It's got a keyboard you can feel.

00:55:32   Well, and it does – that is worth something. That's not to say that it means it's worth

00:55:36   carrying a BlackBerry, but it is certainly a thing. And it's like when you buy a nice

00:55:41   stereo or whatever and it has like a volume knob that just feels nice. Like it has just

00:55:46   the right glide to it.

00:55:48   Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's one of the more interesting things to me about the CarPlay,

00:55:54   right, is that previously, I mean, there's a little bit of back channel on the Apple

00:56:02   TV, right?

00:56:03   You know, if you pause the Apple TV with your remote, it actually updates some status on

00:56:09   your iPhone, you know, shows the player state, that kind of stuff.

00:56:13   But the CarPlay has got knobs and switches and things that are coming back to iOS to

00:56:21   give iOS some idea of your tactile intentions.

00:56:26   You've got a real volume knob.

00:56:30   You can turn that knob and I'm sure the volume knob

00:56:34   in these high-end European cars is gonna feel awesome.

00:56:39   They always do. - Or it should.

00:56:41   Right, it's supposed to. - Yeah, if it doesn't,

00:56:43   you're gonna be like, oh, this is a piece of crap.

00:56:45   I don't want it.

00:56:46   But that tactile information is now making its way

00:56:50   back to the device.

00:56:52   I think that's an important thing, right?

00:56:54   And it makes me think that, okay,

00:56:56   it's pretty obvious that Ben Thompson

00:57:00   called it the Digital Hub 2.0, right?

00:57:04   It's like the hub used to be your Mac, right?

00:57:09   It's the thing that had iTunes on it

00:57:10   and everything that iTunes.

00:57:14   The new Digital Hub is really that device in your pocket.

00:57:17   - Yeah. - Right?

00:57:18   And what connects to it is important now.

00:57:21   Okay, you're connecting to your car,

00:57:23   you're connecting to some sort of wearable device,

00:57:26   you're connecting to Apple TV.

00:57:29   What's the next thing you're gonna connect to?

00:57:31   - Couple of years ago,

00:57:32   might even have been before the iPhone,

00:57:34   maybe not, maybe it was after the iPhone,

00:57:35   but Philip Greenspun, Phil G,

00:57:39   had a blog post where he was like,

00:57:40   "Look, here's the computer I want.

00:57:42   "It's a phone.

00:57:43   "And you carry it with you wherever you go.

00:57:45   "And then when you sit at your desk, you dock it.

00:57:48   And as soon as it's docked, instead of using the phone's display, it uses the 30-inch display

00:57:55   on your desk, and you can use a mouse and keyboard. And then when you're done, you just undock it,

00:58:01   and you put it back in your pocket, and you go. And therefore, you have one computer,

00:58:05   and it's a desktop on your desk, and it's a phone when it's in your pocket.

00:58:08   And Motorola actually made that. I forget what they called it, the Atrax or something like that.

00:58:15   - Yeah, to talk about a product before it's ready.

00:58:19   - There's a kernel of a great idea there,

00:58:23   and I don't think it's, and I've never,

00:58:26   I think the fundamental error there

00:58:28   is that you don't want one device

00:58:30   that has two completely different interfaces.

00:58:32   Because if when you're at your desk

00:58:34   and you want mail to look a certain way,

00:58:36   'cause it's a big, giant display,

00:58:38   and then you undock it, where does that window go?

00:58:43   Like, just think about how annoying it is sometimes,

00:58:45   like when your monitors changes,

00:58:46   or it's not as much a problem as it used to be,

00:58:48   but remember like when games would change

00:58:50   the size of your display on your Mac,

00:58:53   and then like you play the game,

00:58:54   and then as soon as you're done playing the game,

00:58:56   all of your windows are the wrong size.

00:58:58   - Yeah, or your icons are all messed up.

00:59:00   - Yeah, and your icons--

00:59:00   - All those neatly ordered arounds.

00:59:01   - Right.

00:59:02   - It's like, ah!

00:59:03   - It was maddening, and you know,

00:59:07   but I do think there's a kernel of a good idea there,

00:59:09   but docking too is like an old 80s idea.

00:59:12   You don't need to dock.

00:59:13   The only reason you should ever dock

00:59:14   is to get power.

00:59:15   It's just in your pocket and it just,

00:59:20   it can all be wireless.

00:59:22   There's no reason to dock. - Power is another interesting,

00:59:24   power is another interesting thing.

00:59:25   We touched on it earlier,

00:59:26   and the display is a huge draw on that battery.

00:59:31   But anything that's wearable,

00:59:34   it's gotta last a couple days at least.

00:59:37   - At least, and think about,

00:59:38   and again, it comes back to the traditional watch world

00:59:41   where mechanical watches last as long as you wear it every day, they never need power.

00:59:50   Even if you don't, you just quick wind it.

00:59:54   Fifteen seconds later, it's powered for the day.

00:59:57   If you have a mechanical watch and you haven't worn it in a while and the hands are stopped,

01:00:03   you set the time, you wind it 20 times, and then you're done.

01:00:07   Whereas if your electronic device, like you wake up in the morning and your watch, your

01:00:12   smartwatch is dead, you're screwed because you've got to get going, you've got to go

01:00:16   to work, you've got to charge it in the car or something like that.

01:00:19   You have to wait for it to charge.

01:00:22   It's a huge pain in the ass.

01:00:24   Quartz watches, the watches most people who wear watches wear.

01:00:27   The batteries last years usually.

01:00:30   You get two or three years.

01:00:31   It's like a weird once every couple of years thing when the battery winds down.

01:00:36   Yeah, you're totally surprised when it happens and you can't remember the last time you had a one you battery and I had to watch

01:00:43   One time I forget what brand it was

01:00:45   But you know wasn't it was like a like a Swiss Army watch or something cost like a hundred bucks and had a thing

01:00:51   Where when the battery got low?

01:00:53   The second hand only updated once every four seconds or three seconds something like that

01:00:59   So it still kept the right time

01:01:02   But you'd clearly notice that something was wrong because the second hand only moved every three seconds

01:01:09   Which is kind of gave you a little bit of a heads up that okay

01:01:13   You need to head down to the watch Smith and yeah, and it was like, you know, yeah

01:01:17   And I don't even know how you know if it how long that would have lasted but you know that day

01:01:21   I went and got a new battery and it was fine. So I didn't even I didn't even have a day where it was dead

01:01:26   Whereas with you know my phone, I don't know. I think it's a lot to ask

01:01:32   any of us to do is to have another device as needy of

01:01:36   Power as our phones

01:01:40   Like we've all you know, and then hopefully at some point in hindsight, we're all going to look back at this decade and

01:01:47   Laugh at ourselves for what slaves we are to power for our phones

01:01:53   Yeah, and I think it's a lot to ask any of us to do especially

01:01:59   regular consumers to add a second device to that sort of

01:02:03   That sort of

01:02:08   dependency on

01:02:09   Charging, you know once once a day. Yeah, and that's and and

01:02:14   Because it's something you wear

01:02:16   It's something you I mean a lot of times for example rings are uncomfortable to remove right they get so

01:02:24   Yeah, I can't get my wedding attached. You know your wedding ring like, you know, it's getting it over the damn knuckle

01:02:29   it's like, ah, right.

01:02:31   So, you know, and taking a watch off, taking a

01:02:36   watch off, right.

01:02:37   You know, it's like, you got to mess with the,

01:02:39   the strap and you know, it's, it's not just,

01:02:42   it's not like you take the phone out of your

01:02:44   pocket and just slam it down into the dock or,

01:02:47   you know, pop the lightning connector in.

01:02:49   It's not that simple.

01:02:51   So yeah, it's, that's, I think that's, you know,

01:02:55   that again kind of leads me into the thought

01:02:58   that it's gotta be simple, right?

01:03:01   Everybody's coming up with these grand ideas

01:03:04   and they're just physically impossible.

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01:05:11   All right, let's talk about the

01:05:13   Android Wear announcements this week.

01:05:18   Here's what I think.

01:05:19   I haven't linked to it yet from Daring Fireball.

01:05:21   We're recording this a little early.

01:05:23   We're recording on Wednesday, March 19th.

01:05:27   It's been a day.

01:05:28   I still haven't linked to it because I've been letting it.

01:05:29   I want to think because I'm always a little wary especially as time goes on because more

01:05:37   and more when I write about Google and Android, I know that it's against a negative.

01:05:45   That makes me cautious to do it because my first thought was largely negative that it

01:05:52   was just vaporware.

01:05:53   So I wanted to think before I wrote.

01:05:55   But more and more, what I think when I hear this is I think of January 2010, about six

01:06:03   weeks before Apple had the original iPad introduction, and Steve Ballmer is at CES and he mentioned

01:06:13   used the word slate about 72 times and had the HP slate. Here's the HP slate. It's going

01:06:19   to be the best tablet computer ever made, blah, blah, blah. I think it wound up it didn't

01:06:24   even ship. But there he was on stage parading around with this HP slate that was running

01:06:32   Windows 7 or some whatever crap was out at the time. It just looked like a fool. He looked

01:06:38   like a fool then and in hindsight, this looks like an even bigger fool because clearly,

01:06:42   It wasn't because this HP slate was something that was worth bragging about at that keynote

01:06:47   event.

01:06:48   It was because they knew Apple was coming out with a tablet and they wanted to come

01:06:52   out with something first or they wanted to announce something first because they didn't

01:06:56   come out with it.

01:06:57   And that's what I think.

01:06:58   Yeah.

01:06:59   My quip on Twitter was the fact that they called it Android Wear.

01:07:05   They're hedging their bets, right?

01:07:06   Oh, definitely.

01:07:07   It's they didn't call it Android watch or you know, that's obviously what you know, the initial thing is gonna be they you know

01:07:15   Maybe there's there's being smart about it, you know, give them the benefit of the doubt, you know

01:07:19   they realize that wearable devices are

01:07:22   You know, it's a future category and it's pretty broad, you know, it's like saying, you know fashion

01:07:28   Well, it fashion can be everything from shoes to you know to watches to you know

01:07:34   Clothing right it could wind up being something could wind up being something really good cool and popular

01:07:40   But this is not something this is

01:07:42   Technology, it's it's not a product

01:07:45   Right so like and and I know Motorola is one of the people they've announced you know

01:07:50   And they're still like they haven't divested themselves of them yet. They're still part of Google, but

01:07:54   Here is it from the verge story on Motorola's watch which I think is called the moto 360

01:08:02   Right, there are still more questions than answers about the moto 360. Well, no fucking shit

01:08:07   This is the guy

01:08:11   I'll second that this is the guy Jim Wicks who's the designer at Motorola behind it?

01:08:18   There's still more questions than answers. I can't I mean

01:08:22   That is the diner said that no the good that was from the verge

01:08:28   But it says wicks rice wicks was tight-lipped about battery life the particulars of the software and user

01:08:35   interaction and even the diameter of the watch face

01:08:37   It's not large, but it's not small either was as specific as he'd get

01:08:43   Right, so, you know, it's like that they glossed. I mean that's everything

01:08:49   Not gonna tell you the battery life. We're not gonna tell you the display technology

01:08:55   We're not gonna tell you how the user interface and software work and we're not even gonna tell you how big the goddamn thing is

01:09:01   What else is there?

01:09:04   It was so obviously fake to me too, right? Yes, like it's like those are those are just some some fake screenshots

01:09:12   It's just you know

01:09:14   Some video guy was doing compositing of some high really high resolution. They're not even good fake stuff

01:09:21   Yeah, and it was just you know

01:09:24   And one of the ones they showed was a round face.

01:09:29   Now, yeah, it's possible to do that round face,

01:09:35   but if you know anything about LCDs,

01:09:39   they're laid out in a matrix.

01:09:42   It's a square matrix of semiconductors.

01:09:45   - Right. - Right?

01:09:47   - It's graph paper.

01:09:47   - How do you make, yeah, it's graph paper.

01:09:50   How do you make that round?

01:09:52   Well, you're gonna have to be cutting off parts

01:09:55   of some of those squares,

01:09:57   which means they're not gonna light up.

01:09:59   So, you know, just the notion of a round face

01:10:04   on a smartwatch is problematic from the get-go.

01:10:10   You know, not even talking about the software,

01:10:13   but just the physical connections of this thing, right?

01:10:16   It's like, you know, it's the same thing with, you know,

01:10:18   the people that talk about, you know,

01:10:21   an iPhone screen that goes edge to edge. Well, great, but where are the interconnects? How

01:10:26   does that display connect up? It's so easy to gloss over physical problems in industrial

01:10:36   design when you're doing these concepts.

01:10:38   Right. Well, in any design, though, whether it's hardware design or software design, solving

01:10:45   problems every single problem along the way is that that is design right that is

01:10:51   the devil's in the details right and you can skip it for now it's like taking a

01:10:54   test where you're not allowed to have blank answers right you can skip

01:10:57   question seven but when you're designing a product eventually you've got to come

01:11:01   back to it and you've got to get an answer to it right right there has to be

01:11:06   some you know some answer to the question of you know how does it you

01:11:12   How does it connect or whatever the problem is?

01:11:15   The other thing I thought with this is that they've you know that they're going

01:11:19   You know an Android like well it is Android

01:11:25   It's Android where I'd some kind of derivative, but you know just like with the phones and tablets were different hardware makers

01:11:30   You know can make different designs

01:11:32   but if some are square and some are rectangular and some are circular and

01:11:37   They're all even if they're big watches, right and somebody said that one of these round

01:11:42   Android wear ones was like a 40 46 millimeter diameter and by you know, like a standard men's size is

01:11:49   Somewhere around like 38 millimeters and maybe because watches have been getting bigger fashion wise maybe you call 40 the standard now

01:11:57   But 46 is bigger not humongous and there's probably a lot of people out there, you know who have 46 millimeter

01:12:04   Regular men's wristwatches, but it's pretty big but overall though as a computer display

01:12:11   That's small, right? I mean, you know this from all the iPhone apps

01:12:15   You've done a three and a half inch or a four inch iPhone screen is a small display and a lot of times

01:12:21   You know, like if you're doing something like let's say a Twitter app

01:12:24   That's a really small canvas to work on to do something like hey, let's show the users timeline and

01:12:33   And whatever the problem is so if you're talking about a 46 millimeter

01:12:36   Either a square or circle. That's really small

01:12:40   and the difference between a circle and a square is humongous in terms of

01:12:47   Layout right in terms of last

01:12:51   Effectively you know and in a way that like you'd have to design an app twice already on day one

01:12:59   You'd have to have two complete

01:13:01   Designs to support just square and circle. Well, you know what it's gonna be like

01:13:05   It's gonna be like, you know in the early days of HDTV, you know where you have the standards broadcast screen

01:13:11   That kind of was like either scrunched in or expand it out, you know

01:13:15   You were either seeing black bars on the side or you're cropping content on the top and the bottom, right?

01:13:20   I mean you pick take your pick

01:13:22   It's gonna look bad either way. I promise you right

01:13:26   I mean just think about like the iPhone like, you know, like on a on a square or rectangle

01:13:31   You know what are some pretty convenient spots?

01:13:33   The corners, right?

01:13:35   Looking on the phone, you've got your battery in a corner,

01:13:38   you've got your signal indicator in a corner.

01:13:40   On your home screen, I'm looking at it right now,

01:13:41   I've got my little shortcut to get to the phone in a corner.

01:13:46   Well, guess what?

01:13:47   If you draw an oval on the iPhone screen, they're all gone.

01:13:50   - Yeah, yeah.

01:13:52   It also seemed in that promo video

01:13:55   that some of the swipe interactions were just kinda like,

01:13:59   I couldn't make any rhyme or reason to them.

01:14:01   - No, I couldn't either.

01:14:02   - Where, you know, swiping up,

01:14:04   does that have any kind of standard thing?

01:14:06   It's like, I don't see anything kind of standard there.

01:14:09   It's just like the guy decided to swipe up

01:14:11   and something magically appeared.

01:14:12   So what are you just gonna swipe around

01:14:16   until you find what you want?

01:14:17   Or is there some sort of conceptual hierarchy

01:14:20   to this information?

01:14:23   And again, and that how you transition between those

01:14:29   totally changes whether it's a circle or a square.

01:14:32   It just seems very, all of these things add up

01:14:36   to just being kind of vapor-y.

01:14:39   - There is one aspect of Google Wear,

01:14:42   and it's not, it's totally obvious.

01:14:44   I mean, everybody, I think, has thought of it.

01:14:46   It's so obvious that maybe people don't even think

01:14:48   about it as an idea.

01:14:49   But because it's Android, they've already got that,

01:14:54   this is what I'm about to say,

01:14:56   they've already got it working.

01:14:57   And because it's Google, they actually have

01:14:59   a pretty good version of it, but it's text-to-speech.

01:15:02   Because that's a huge problem with the Pebble, to me,

01:15:06   is okay, so you hook it up, you turn on Bluetooth,

01:15:09   you sync it with your phone, and all of a sudden,

01:15:11   when you get a text, you get a little thing on your wrist

01:15:14   and you can see it.

01:15:15   Well, now what?

01:15:15   If it's a text that's important,

01:15:17   you've gotta take your phone out of your pocket

01:15:19   to write back.

01:15:20   So what exactly did you get saved,

01:15:23   other than that problem I did mention earlier,

01:15:25   where sometimes I'll get a text

01:15:27   and I don't notice that the thing went off in my pocket.

01:15:30   But in that case, the fact that the watch has a screen

01:15:34   is meaningless.

01:15:34   All I need is something on my body that notifies me.

01:15:38   Hey.

01:15:38   - Yeah, exactly. - Right?

01:15:40   But with this, I will say that there,

01:15:43   that does take it up a level

01:15:45   where if you've got the Google Now integration

01:15:48   and you get a text on your watch,

01:15:50   you can say to the watch,

01:15:52   okay, tell Craig I'll be ready in 15 minutes.

01:15:55   Okay, you were just a moment ago worried about

01:15:58   looking dorky while you flicked your wrist.

01:16:00   How dorky are you gonna look when sitting there

01:16:03   like the Secret Service agent talking into your wrist?

01:16:07   - Well, I could see it being useful in a car maybe,

01:16:10   but that to me is, but there, you know--

01:16:12   - But you don't drive a stick shift, do you?

01:16:14   - Oh no, I don't actually, no.

01:16:15   Yeah, well, but they also have the thing

01:16:21   where it's always listening for okay Google

01:16:23   or whatever it is, so you don't have to push a button

01:16:25   the watch to make it listen. Oh, I bet if you're out on a busy street,

01:16:30   there's a lot of noise on the street, yeah, that's gonna work great. Yeah, I

01:16:33   don't, you know. You're gonna have to point the microphone at

01:16:37   your face. The devil's in the details, and I'm with you on that. I'm just saying in

01:16:41   theory it's... Yeah, no, no, no, it goes back to the point of there need to be

01:16:46   other ways of interacting with our devices, right? And I think voice is

01:16:51   is one of the things, you know, Siri has got some problems.

01:16:55   Google, I mean, let's give credit where it's credit.

01:16:57   Google now is pretty awesome.

01:16:59   - Yeah, at least in terms of accuracy.

01:17:01   - Yeah, Google's accuracy is better.

01:17:03   It just is.

01:17:05   - I will say this.

01:17:06   Do you think that, am I nuts?

01:17:07   Am I just, am I kidding myself?

01:17:11   But I think Siri has gotten significantly better.

01:17:15   I agree that the Google stuff is still ahead,

01:17:18   But I feel like Siri is actually a lot better

01:17:22   than it ever has been before.

01:17:23   - Yeah, well, it improves the more data you feed it, right?

01:17:28   It does the more different kind of voices

01:17:29   that interact with it, the more kinds of questions

01:17:32   that are being asked.

01:17:33   - Largely-- - It gets better over time.

01:17:37   - And I call all the features of Siri, Siri.

01:17:39   Largely, it's not the intelligent agent part.

01:17:44   To me, largely, it's the text to speech.

01:17:46   and as here on the East Coast, it's winter.

01:17:50   So if I'm out and I do get a text,

01:17:52   it's really, really great.

01:17:56   I don't like messing around.

01:17:58   The touchscreen gloves never work right for me.

01:18:02   They're not good enough.

01:18:03   But I can use Siri with gloves on.

01:18:05   All I do is push the button and I can dictate a text,

01:18:09   and it works great.

01:18:11   My primary use case is just to give myself reminders, right?

01:18:16   You know, pull the phone out, you know?

01:18:18   Reminder to water the plants at 5 p.m., done.

01:18:23   - And I think that that's,

01:18:26   it works better than it ever has before.

01:18:28   I'm not saying, I don't know,

01:18:29   I don't think it works as well as Google's,

01:18:30   but it's getting there,

01:18:32   and I think it's at least keeping pace.

01:18:35   - I think Google's been collecting data longer,

01:18:38   so they're more refined.

01:18:41   - That's why Google Maps is so much better, right?

01:18:44   They've been collecting data longer than Apple has

01:18:47   and making corrections to that data.

01:18:49   - I do think it's a useful feature on the phone.

01:18:52   And I use it, like I said, especially here in the winter

01:18:54   where my hands are so cold,

01:18:55   I can send a couple of text messages

01:18:57   without actually using the keyboard

01:19:00   and taking my gloves off.

01:19:01   But I wouldn't be surprised if the root of the whole thing

01:19:05   and Apple's interest in it is beyond the phone.

01:19:10   it's in devices that won't have a display.

01:19:12   Or if they do, don't have a display

01:19:16   that could fit a keyboard.

01:19:17   >> Well, that's one of the things that's interesting

01:19:20   about CarPlay again, back to that,

01:19:22   is the ability to talk to your car to do things is awesome

01:19:27   because it keeps your eye on the road, right?

01:19:31   You don't have to look at fiddly little knobs, right?

01:19:36   you can just say, in fact I've got my VW

01:19:40   has a little button you press and I can say,

01:19:43   call somebody's name.

01:19:47   - Yeah, I used to have that.

01:19:48   - And it just makes a phone call.

01:19:51   And I don't have to go fiddling around

01:19:53   through address books or find a contact or whatever,

01:19:55   it just, it's like magic, right?

01:19:58   And I haven't, you know, haven't been distracted.

01:20:05   - And that's also one of the challenges with CarPlay, right?

01:20:08   You know, it's like, and it's kind of

01:20:09   in the manufacturer's hand as to how they minimize

01:20:14   distractions because you don't want people

01:20:19   to be staring at a display while they're driving.

01:20:23   - No, definitely not.

01:20:24   In fact-- - Bad UI.

01:20:26   - Right. - It's dangerous UI.

01:20:27   - Truly dangerous, right.

01:20:29   - Somebody's gonna get hurt.

01:20:30   No, I'm sort of, as I rocket towards old age,

01:20:35   that's like my, you know, you goddamn kids, you know.

01:20:38   You're gonna-- (laughing)

01:20:40   - Exactly.

01:20:40   You know, it's so obvious when you see somebody

01:20:45   who's texting or talking on the phone.

01:20:46   - Oh my God, and I see it all the time--

01:20:48   - Without using ants free.

01:20:49   - I see it all the time as a pedestrian, you know,

01:20:52   'cause I walk most of the time here in Philly,

01:20:53   and when I see somebody texting and driving,

01:20:55   it makes me furiously angry, just furious.

01:20:59   - I would honest to God, I honest to God

01:21:01   would rather see someone just drinking a beer.

01:21:03   I really would, 'cause at least their eyes are on the road.

01:21:07   - And they'll be slowing down and looking for cops.

01:21:10   - Right.

01:21:11   - Yeah.

01:21:15   - Honest to God, if I, I would rather

01:21:17   that to see somebody drinking a beer

01:21:19   while they drive than texting, really would.

01:21:21   - Absolutely, far less dangerous.

01:21:24   And I don't wanna see somebody who's blind drunk driving,

01:21:29   But yeah.

01:21:31   - Yeah, I'm not endorsing drunk driving

01:21:32   or even drinking while driving.

01:21:34   I'm not, I'm just saying I honestly feel that strongly

01:21:37   about it with the texting.

01:21:38   And it's, I think, you know, statistics bear it out.

01:21:42   - Sure, yeah, yeah, it's a no brainer.

01:21:45   - Let me just take a final break here.

01:21:50   I want to thank our third and final sponsor.

01:21:52   This is great.

01:21:53   The Perfect Trifecta, three new sponsors.

01:21:58   And I love, love, love that this is like a sort of

01:22:02   out of left field idea.

01:22:03   Do you like Caesar salads, Craig?

01:22:05   - Oh, I love Caesar salad.

01:22:07   - Oh.

01:22:08   - My wife makes an awesome Caesar salad dressing.

01:22:11   - Here we go, the best Caesar.

01:22:13   It's a new spin on an old favorite.

01:22:15   Forget what you know about a Caesar salad.

01:22:19   This is not your ordinary gloppy egg-based version.

01:22:22   I've never had an egg-based Caesar salad,

01:22:23   so I'm not quite sure what they're talking about.

01:22:25   But this is different.

01:22:27   It's got bite, it's bold, it's edgy, it's sharp.

01:22:30   The best Caesar is a project years in the making

01:22:33   and it's close to the heart of its creator,

01:22:36   guy named Tyson Cayley.

01:22:38   Learned the recipe as a kid from his father

01:22:42   and he's made it his whole life for friends and family.

01:22:45   And so what he's done with this family recipe

01:22:48   for Caesar salad is he's built a single purpose app

01:22:51   because he simply wanted a way

01:22:52   to teach this recipe to everyone.

01:22:55   So you'll find the mouthwatering recipe in the app.

01:22:59   And it's got great photography from Tyson's friend Katie Newburn.

01:23:06   Great visuals.

01:23:08   It's been featured by Apple in the App Store food and drink section as a best new app.

01:23:14   And it's available free for iPhone and iPad.

01:23:18   Satisfy your craving, get the app, learn the recipe, enjoy it for a lifetime.

01:23:22   talk show listeners

01:23:24   here's the deal

01:23:25   tyson's only wish is for you to make the best caesar

01:23:29   share with your friends

01:23:31   and uh...

01:23:32   post photos

01:23:33   via the apps integration with instagram

01:23:36   face book and twitter

01:23:38   how do you get

01:23:40   head on over here's the website w_w_w_ dot the best caesar dot com

01:23:46   slash the talk show

01:23:48   www.thebestcsar.com/thetalkshow

01:23:53   and you'll get this great app.

01:23:55   I love a Caesar salad.

01:23:57   Caesar salad's my go-to appetizer.

01:23:59   - You ought to tell people how to spell Caesar.

01:24:04   - I love it. - There are gonna be

01:24:06   a lot of people making that mistake like I just made it.

01:24:09   - C-A-E-S-A-R.

01:24:12   C-A-E-S-A-R.

01:24:16   Do you know why Caesar's Palace in Vegas,

01:24:18   why it doesn't have an apostrophe?

01:24:19   No.

01:24:22   So the guy who invented it, founder of the casino in, I think it was like 1967, '68,

01:24:28   a guy named Jay Sarno.

01:24:29   There was a Kickstarter book from a professor of gambling history at UNLV that I bought.

01:24:38   It's a great book.

01:24:39   It was called, what's it called?

01:24:42   The Grandissimo, which is the name of Jay Sarno's.

01:24:46   Never got to build it.

01:24:47   It was gonna be his masterpiece follow-up.

01:24:50   Anyway, "Grandissimo" is a great book.

01:24:52   But anyway, he came up with the name,

01:24:56   said it's gonna be called "Caesar's Palace,"

01:24:57   and then somebody pointed out to him

01:24:59   that it needed an apostrophe.

01:25:01   And I think, nobody knows, but I think the gist is

01:25:04   that maybe he made a mistake.

01:25:06   But he said, "Oh, no, no, no.

01:25:08   "There's not just one Caesar.

01:25:10   "Every man who steps foot in this casino is a Caesar."

01:25:12   - There you go.

01:25:15   - That's the name.

01:25:16   Anyway, that's why I just assume everybody knows

01:25:18   Caesar's palace and that they know how to spell Caesar.

01:25:20   C-A-E-S-A-R.

01:25:23   What a great idea, I love--

01:25:26   - Yeah, and a good Caesar salad,

01:25:29   that's an important thing to know how to make.

01:25:33   - I just love that this guy has devoted his life

01:25:36   to perfecting the Caesar salad.

01:25:38   I love it, I think that's such a--

01:25:41   - I mean, there's some great photography on this website.

01:25:44   I haven't had dinner yet and I'm like okay.

01:25:48   (laughing)

01:25:50   And I'm at--

01:25:52   - I know what we're doing after.

01:25:54   - It's 11 o'clock p.m. here and I haven't eaten yet

01:25:56   but I have to admit it is very, very attractive website.

01:26:00   - Yeah, get some romaine lettuce in the fridge too.

01:26:03   - Yeah, at the very least everybody should check out

01:26:05   the website because--

01:26:05   - Oh yeah, yeah, it's a beautiful site.

01:26:07   - Yeah.

01:26:09   - Somebody obviously loves design.

01:26:11   - Yeah.

01:26:11   - And loves good food too, so.

01:26:14   That's a good combo does look like a good Caesar salad I have to say

01:26:17   Damn it now. I'm hungry. We started with orange juice in our own Caesar salad. Okay, let's talk about steaks

01:26:26   That's what I like before steak done I mean, I'm the only other thing I like before a steak is

01:26:35   Maybe French onions, but if I don't you know, it's either that or a Caesar salad

01:26:40   All right, last thing I want to talk about.

01:26:42   And I think this--

01:26:43   I want to-- it's sort of like a zoom back out.

01:26:47   The bottom line to me on the Android Wear

01:26:49   is just come back to me when you have a real product.

01:26:51   And you can tell me what the battery life is

01:26:53   and what it actually does and what it actually

01:26:55   costs and how it works.

01:26:58   I say you've got to zoom all the way back out to the big picture.

01:27:02   And you talk about this in the article on Furbo,

01:27:05   which is you've got to start by asking yourself,

01:27:07   what are the problems that we can solve?

01:27:10   Right, like how can we put a watch,

01:27:14   OS, a watch OS, I mean not a watch OS, a phone OS.

01:27:23   How do you take a phone OS and put it on your wrist?

01:27:26   That's not solving a problem, that's just,

01:27:30   you know, doing a trick, right?

01:27:32   You're not solving an actual problem for actual users

01:27:35   by just doing that, it has to do something,

01:27:37   It has to, you know, I don't want to be corny, but it has to be meaningful to people's lives.

01:27:42   >> Right. It's like for most people it's not a chore to pull the phone out of their pocket

01:27:47   and interact with it.

01:27:48   That's not a chore.

01:27:50   >> Right. So for example, so for example, famously, for years and years,

01:27:56   I mean probably decades even, people would say what if Apple made a cut down version

01:28:02   of Mac OS that could run on a handheld computer?

01:28:06   Right? That's a great idea. You can imagine things you do with it.

01:28:09   But in and of itself, that's nothing. It actually has to solve...

01:28:13   And, you know, eventually they did it. That's what the iPhone is.

01:28:16   But it had to actually solve problems. And the problems that it solved were things like,

01:28:21   "How can I read my email while I am away from any computer?"

01:28:25   "How can I talk to people?"

01:28:28   You know, "How can I make phone calls?"

01:28:30   "How can I listen to music without carrying a separate device just to listen to music?"

01:28:34   music. Those are real problems and the iPhone had real solutions to it.

01:28:38   I feel like you've better yet better yet it even had it solved problems that you didn't know you had

01:28:44   it enabled you to do things like go on the internet and do price comparisons while you're

01:28:50   shopping for something. Exactly right right gave you you know somebody you're having a discussion

01:28:57   during dinner and somebody says, you know, when was the first watch invented? And you, you know,

01:29:04   go to Wikipedia, you know. It enabled a lot of new things, you know, problems you didn't know you had

01:29:12   or you didn't know how satisfying it would be to come up with solutions to those problems.

01:29:20   >> Right.

01:29:21   >> You didn't look at them as something that, oh my God, this is, you know, this is something

01:29:26   that makes my life worse. It's like it was something that enriched your life.

01:29:34   Right.

01:29:35   There's a subtle difference there.

01:29:39   Yeah, I would say, again, another perfect example of the sort of question that I never really

01:29:44   thought about in advance, but now I use all the time is, okay, I'm somewhere unfamiliar. I'm

01:29:50   traveling. I'm in a new city. Where should I eat? Right?

01:29:53   Yeah.

01:29:54   There's different ways that you can solve that using a phone, but the phone solves it

01:29:59   really pretty well.

01:30:01   It used to just be what?

01:30:05   I don't know.

01:30:06   Go down.

01:30:07   If you're in a hotel, ask the hotel.

01:30:08   They don't know what to do.

01:30:09   They'd probably just send you to wherever they're getting kickbacks from.

01:30:12   Right, exactly.

01:30:15   It also allows you to find your way around public transport.

01:30:21   I know I use public transport a lot more because, you know, I arrive in New York City and I've

01:30:28   got, you know, all the transit information I need in my pocket.

01:30:33   It's pretty awesome.

01:30:35   Yeah, I think that that's the -- I'm hoping that, you know, that the thing that Apple

01:30:43   comes up with has some of these surprises like, you know, the ability, you know -- I

01:30:49   had no idea how important it would be to have Safari in my pocket.

01:30:53   See that I could have imagined. That I could have.

01:30:58   That to me was, you know, it was like, okay, yeah, I can, you know, read some web pages.

01:31:02   I can do it, you know, read my RSS feeds. I can do my Twitter.

01:31:05   No, wait, no, wait. You know what? I'm going to step back. I'm going to erase that last

01:31:10   answer. I take it back. Actually, no, because I never would have anticipated how usable

01:31:14   the web could be on that size of a screen. So I take it back.

01:31:17   Right. Yeah.

01:31:18   it back. Yeah my initial reaction my initial reaction is it's like I don't

01:31:23   really want to have email when I'm out and about you know I don't want people

01:31:28   to be able to bug me I mean they bug me enough with email in the office I want

01:31:31   to be able to go and be free of email and then it's like okay well it is

01:31:37   pretty awesome like if you're expecting an email from somebody to be able to

01:31:42   check for it while you're out. Or well we'll get this too if you think of

01:31:46   something to email someone instead of making a to-do to, hey, email Craig about sending

01:31:53   me his audio from the talk show, I just email you. You just do it. It's always a huge step

01:31:58   up when you can, instead of making a reminder to do something, do something.

01:32:03   Yeah. That's my hope with this wearable technology, right? It's going to enable things that we're

01:32:09   not even thinking of. There are a lot of smart people at Apple. They're clearly thinking

01:32:15   hard about this problem. Yeah. Well, and you know, the health book stuff has leaked this

01:32:20   week. Mark Gurman had some kind of, somebody leaked the... Yeah, that was an awesome thing

01:32:26   that he wrote up there. Yeah, he's got some ace sources, I'll tell you. And I bet somebody

01:32:30   in Apple is pissed. I don't think it's probably Apple. I think it's probably a partner. Yeah.

01:32:36   My guess would be that, you know, that health book is going to aggregate data from different

01:32:42   So, you know, maybe it's got some Nike fuel band integration. Who knows?

01:32:47   Well, and who knows whether it'll change or not, too, because it's only March.

01:32:51   And I'm guessing that this is something that we're gonna see at WWDC in June.

01:32:56   Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:32:57   But we're only guessing that WWDC is gonna be in June. I mean, it's an informed guess,

01:33:02   but it's informed only by the last five or six years of that happening.

01:33:06   Right, it happens.

01:33:06   - But the gist of what we can see from the leaked stuff

01:33:10   that Gurman had is a sort of Passbook style,

01:33:14   it's like a sister app to Passbook.

01:33:16   Like what Passbook is for those type of cards,

01:33:18   Healthbook is, it's not just the name that's similar,

01:33:22   but it's a similar interface.

01:33:23   But that makes me think that it's also meant like Passbook

01:33:27   where third parties can add their stuff.

01:33:30   - Yep, exactly.

01:33:31   - So it's not, it's not--

01:33:33   And I expect one of those third parties is the one who's leaking it.

01:33:37   I wonder.

01:33:38   I do wonder.

01:33:39   That would be...

01:33:40   I mean, Apple has a pretty good culture of security.

01:33:46   Yeah.

01:33:47   Right?

01:33:48   Apple, it's indoctrinated with Apple employees that you just don't talk about what you're

01:33:52   working on.

01:33:53   It's really that simple.

01:33:55   And the Apple employees, I know better than to ask, and they're just not gonna say anything.

01:34:03   Some third party, they don't have that culture.

01:34:07   Some QA engineer or something that worked for Nike might have slipped somebody some

01:34:13   screenshots and, "Here, this is what this does," and all of a sudden there's a story.

01:34:22   And Mark Gurman doesn't talk about his sources, he doesn't talk about the stuff he writes,

01:34:29   And that's, for the business he's in, that's a good way to handle it, right?

01:34:36   Keep your sources to yourself.

01:34:38   So what are some of the problems that you think can't, you know, and again, I'm with

01:34:42   you.

01:34:43   I don't believe that I can even think of all the things that wearable technology is going

01:34:48   to be able to do 10 years from now.

01:34:51   But I can think of some of them.

01:34:52   And we know about exercise trackers, right?

01:34:56   Foot, step and step tracker type things.

01:34:59   'Cause they exist now, right?

01:35:00   There's the Fuelband and the Fitbit

01:35:03   and the phone itself even does it now

01:35:05   with the A7 processor.

01:35:08   - M7, I think it is.

01:35:12   - Right? - Is it M7?

01:35:13   What, yeah.

01:35:15   - Heartbeat monitors, stuff like that, all right.

01:35:18   I can imagine, I see now,

01:35:22   but already then I'm starting to run out of steam on ideas.

01:35:25   Like those things already exist.

01:35:27   - Yeah.

01:35:29   - I could imagine, you know,

01:35:30   maybe with some kind of breakthrough or something,

01:35:33   I can imagine the advantage of having a camera on a device

01:35:38   that you could position different places on your body.

01:35:40   I don't know.

01:35:41   But we already know what cameras do.

01:35:43   Like I feel like, you know,

01:35:45   it just would be another convenience.

01:35:47   Like if you go running and you only have your new

01:35:50   Apple thing on your wrist on and you don't have your phone

01:35:53   and you see something interesting, you could take a photo.

01:35:55   But that's not really solving new problems.

01:36:00   I don't know, I feel like I'm,

01:36:02   I feel pretty confident that these problems are out there,

01:36:06   but I really kind of feel like when I finally see it,

01:36:08   it's going to be a, oh, I never thought of that.

01:36:11   - Yeah, no, that is the hardest thing to think about.

01:36:17   all the other stuff about the physical aspects to it, how it

01:36:22   fits into the iOS ecosystem.

01:36:24   That's all pretty--

01:36:26   you can kind of suss that out pretty easily.

01:36:30   But coming up with exciting use cases, yeah, that's the

01:36:41   hard thing.

01:36:46   I think for me there's a lot to be said with putting, you know, giving your physical state,

01:36:59   using that as context for the, you know, the device can make assumptions then.

01:37:06   Like the example I used in the post was, okay, right now I'm physically closer to my iPhone

01:37:13   than I am to my MacBook, right?

01:37:17   Why do I see notifications on both machines?

01:37:20   - Yeah.

01:37:21   - And as somebody who owns an iPhone, an iPad, an iMac,

01:37:24   and a bunch of other devices,

01:37:28   anytime an alarm goes off, it's like,

01:37:31   blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink.

01:37:34   And that's, I don't need that.

01:37:36   - Yeah, iMessage has gotten a--

01:37:38   - So my physical context is,

01:37:40   It's an important thing in that solution.

01:37:44   - Yeah, ideally, iMessage and anything similar,

01:37:49   it's not notifying devices, it's notifying you.

01:37:53   - Right, exactly. - And the devices

01:37:55   could figure out where you are and what you're doing.

01:37:59   - Right, and you know, another example, right?

01:38:05   If the device knows your, I'm currently in a room,

01:38:10   currently, we'll say six inches away from my phone.

01:38:13   If I stand up and walk towards the door

01:38:16   and the phone's not in my pocket,

01:38:18   that distance is increasing.

01:38:19   - Right.

01:38:20   - You know, 'cause the phones aren't going beep, beep,

01:38:23   beep, beep, beep, you forgot me.

01:38:25   Do I get a little, you know, my clip-on device

01:38:29   starts buzzing like, hey, you're forgetting your phone.

01:38:32   You know, there are some interesting things there, right?

01:38:34   And you know, none of us likes leaving the phone at home.

01:38:38   I mean, even my wife left her phone at home the other day

01:38:41   and I had to call her.

01:38:42   Well, I called her and it's like,

01:38:44   ah, the phone ran in the kitchen.

01:38:46   It's like, oh crap.

01:38:48   She doesn't have her phone with her.

01:38:49   How do I get in contact with her?

01:38:50   And what would have been a five second activity

01:38:55   became a, I gotta track her down and work

01:38:59   and interrupt her meeting and blah.

01:39:07   Again, putting you as a person and letting your devices know about you, know about your

01:39:19   physical state, right?

01:39:23   Are you hot, are you cold, are you tired, are you awake?

01:39:29   There are some interesting things that can be inferred by the devices once it knows more

01:39:34   about you.

01:39:36   So, one of the things that was in that health book post that Mark Gurman did is it showed

01:39:47   that I hadn't remembered this but they hired some fitness expert as a consultant.

01:39:56   He maybe is an employee now, I don't know.

01:39:58   you know somebody like that is gonna bring a lot of different ideas to the table you know that the

01:40:09   fact that they hired Angela Aharon I think that's how you pronounce your name you know who has a

01:40:14   background in fashion right fashion and retail that's gonna bring a lot of interesting ideas to

01:40:23   the table.

01:40:24   Right.

01:40:25   I think that she will mostly have her – you know, it's curious.

01:40:29   I was just thinking about her too where she's slated to start sometime in the first half

01:40:34   of 2014.

01:40:36   But they haven't – nobody has clarified that since.

01:40:39   As far as I know, she's still the Burberry CEO.

01:40:42   She hasn't started at Apple yet.

01:40:43   I don't know if when she does, they're even going to say anything.

01:40:47   I mean, it would be typical Apple not – she could have – maybe she is working full-time

01:40:51   there and haven't said it.

01:40:52   Although I think –

01:40:53   None of your business.

01:40:54   - Right, but there's gonna be,

01:40:55   like people will notice when Burberry announces a new CEO.

01:40:59   Like they might notice her leaving Burberry,

01:41:02   but once she goes into Apple, it's gonna be a,

01:41:06   I think she's gonna mostly have her hands full

01:41:08   running retail, and I don't think that she

01:41:10   as the retail boss is going to have a large input

01:41:14   into product design, but I don't think it's a coincidence,

01:41:17   you know what I mean?

01:41:18   Like I don't think she's not gonna have any input either.

01:41:20   Right, and I think that--

01:41:22   - Right.

01:41:23   - There's a sort of this is which way the wind is blowing

01:41:26   to her decision to take the job in the first place.

01:41:30   - No matter what her responsibilities are,

01:41:32   she's still gonna have connections within the industry.

01:41:35   And connections are very important at that level.

01:41:38   - Right, and she's done by all accounts.

01:41:42   I mean, it's almost hard to find anybody

01:41:45   saying anything negative about her,

01:41:46   I mean, which is kind of rare.

01:41:48   But she has done a terrific job

01:41:51   with Burberry and the brand.

01:41:53   You know, that they were sort of seen as in trouble

01:41:55   when she took over and she's leaving them

01:41:57   in fantastic shape.

01:41:59   - Yeah, I mean, I had memories of the companies

01:42:03   being, you know, clothes that old people wore.

01:42:05   - You know, and this, yeah, exactly.

01:42:07   - Kind of old-fashioned fashion.

01:42:09   - Old lady coats and stuff like that.

01:42:12   - Yeah, and it's like it's--

01:42:14   - What did they call the punks in the UK?

01:42:18   Chavs that there was like this I don't know Google it but I know it was a bad

01:42:24   brand was in bad shape she left it in good shape but you know what and it

01:42:28   comes right back to what we talked about you know at the big very beginning where

01:42:31   if you're gonna talk about watches you're already talking about men's and

01:42:34   women's watches and that's already broken in two and that's already a weird

01:42:39   uncharted territory for Apple Apple's never made men's and women's phones or

01:42:44   laptops. So I don't know, phones might be the wrong way but maybe not, maybe they will, you know.

01:42:51   Never say never, you know, with wearables. Well you know, and you know, Apple has proven that

01:42:58   they can get away with a lot by, you know, adding cases and, you know, sort of external ornamentation.

01:43:06   I do think, and somebody else said it on the show and you mentioned it in your article,

01:43:09   I do think it's true that the proliferation of cases for phones, I do think is maybe even

01:43:17   people tell themselves it's about protection, but I think it's largely driven by the desire

01:43:25   to sort of personalize it.

01:43:27   That they don't want, you know, a lot of people, maybe even most people don't want a phone

01:43:30   that looks like everybody else's phone.

01:43:32   It's a lot more like your analogy of the swatch store.

01:43:39   The way that most people's actual iPhones look,

01:43:41   like if you went to a typical restaurant

01:43:44   that's not full of us and you know,

01:43:47   nerds, but just regular people and said,

01:43:49   hey everybody with an iPhone, hold it up.

01:43:50   You'd see a huge variety because of the cases.

01:43:54   You wouldn't just see black, silver, and gold.

01:43:57   - And my niece changes her case, you know, weekly.

01:44:02   - There you go, right.

01:44:03   - It's like, oh, you know, I'm gonna put a case on

01:44:05   that matches my outfit.

01:44:07   - Right, and it has nothing to do

01:44:08   with upgrading the protection in case she drops it right.

01:44:11   It's exactly about what it looks like,

01:44:14   how it makes her feel.

01:44:15   - Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:44:17   - Trying to think if there's anything else here.

01:44:21   One last area you can think about with these wearables

01:44:24   is just to go through from head to toe

01:44:27   where you could put them.

01:44:29   So there's your face, which is glasses.

01:44:33   - That's interesting, yeah.

01:44:33   - Right? - Mm-hmm.

01:44:35   Her nose ring.

01:44:36   I think that's really limited until you could actually put the screen into the glass of

01:44:43   your glasses in a way that is absolutely unobtrusive. I think it's a deal breaker. Eventually, I'm

01:44:49   sure that will happen. You'll be able to build lenses for glasses with a display in there

01:44:55   built in. But I think it's a long way out. Your neck, right? So you can wear necklaces.

01:45:03   I don't see necklaces though as a place for any sort of technology.

01:45:07   It doesn't make sense to me.

01:45:10   Well, if – yeah.

01:45:12   I mean there's the original iPod Shuffle which kind of had that lanyard thing that you could hang around your neck.

01:45:19   And that was – I mean I'd love that.

01:45:21   That was – I would go running with that and it was very convenient to get at.

01:45:27   It had – it stayed out of the way while you were running.

01:45:30   But then you could pull it up and use the controls really easily.

01:45:35   So maybe in some scenarios that's...

01:45:40   Maybe it's a device that has some sort of USB connector,

01:45:45   not a USB connector, but some sort of connector

01:45:50   that lets it hang around your neck or attach to your wrist or...

01:45:55   I don't know. To me, it's more I think back to the iPad where I knew they were working

01:46:03   on a tablet. Even just the question of, "Well, how are you going to prop it up? Are you going

01:46:07   to use it flat on the table?" That doesn't seem right. But how else are you going to

01:46:11   prop it up? Is it going to…?

01:46:15   To their credit, I think the kickstand on the Microsoft Surface actually works pretty

01:46:19   well. I don't know if you've ever played with one. I thought, "Would they do that?

01:46:22   it seems goofy, it seems, you know, an Apple-like.

01:46:25   But there's all sorts of little, you know,

01:46:26   there's more questions to me with this,

01:46:28   with watches and wearables than there was

01:46:30   even with the tablet computers.

01:46:32   - Yeah, that's absolutely true.

01:46:36   The tablet you knew, you had a notion

01:46:42   of what the touch UI was gonna be like, right?

01:46:46   And you know, those of us who were developers,

01:46:48   you know, we had a simulator, kinda knew,

01:46:51   And this is, you know, we obviously didn't know anything

01:46:54   before they made the announcement,

01:46:56   but you know, you kinda got an idea

01:46:58   of how the iPad was gonna work

01:47:00   by just looking at it on your Mac screen

01:47:02   and knowing how your iPhone worked.

01:47:05   But yeah, the physical dimensions of the device,

01:47:10   that was hard, that was hard to, you know,

01:47:15   you had a lot of the pieces in the puzzle,

01:47:17   but it still didn't fit together well.

01:47:20   - Yeah, take it back to 2007 and the iPhone

01:47:23   and it was everybody, seemed like they were gonna announce

01:47:25   an iPhone but everybody thought it was gonna be an iPod

01:47:27   that made phone calls.

01:47:29   - Yeah.

01:47:29   - It was so much more than that.

01:47:31   And maybe that's what we're overlooking.

01:47:33   And that was based on technology

01:47:36   that we didn't know could exist.

01:47:38   I'm not saying that, famously,

01:47:40   they didn't invent the touchscreen.

01:47:42   - No, no.

01:47:43   - They already had OS X, they shrunk it down.

01:47:45   But we didn't know that they could get a version

01:47:48   of Mac OS X running on a mobile chipset.

01:47:50   We didn't know that they could make a touchscreen

01:47:53   that good at consumer level prices.

01:47:57   - Right.

01:47:58   - And that had that level of responsiveness.

01:48:00   - And that it could have a day's worth of battery life.

01:48:02   - Right, that's what I think.

01:48:04   Whatever the answer is, whatever Apple's coming out with

01:48:06   that's wearable is, I think it's gonna involve

01:48:09   multiple technologies, like two or three

01:48:11   like the first iPhone that we just didn't know

01:48:13   were technically possible.

01:48:15   and then once you realize, oh, they can do that?

01:48:18   Oh, well then of course it's going to blank, blank, blank.

01:48:21   But we just, I don't know what those things are.

01:48:24   - Yep, and that's why we love Apple, right?

01:48:26   'Cause they keep these things to themselves

01:48:29   and then they show them to the world

01:48:33   and you just, the sense of excitement when that happens

01:48:37   is, it's awesome.

01:48:38   - Yeah, yeah, and I do get the feeling.

01:48:42   I don't think it's coming soon.

01:48:43   I think we're gonna go,

01:48:44   Maybe it'll be at WWDC, but I don't expect anything between now and WWDC.

01:48:49   No. Well, that's another interesting thing. Where is this going to fall on their product launch cycles?

01:48:57   They obviously in the fall are all ramped up to sell phones.

01:49:02   Here's – if you want me to guess, my guess is a huge WWDC keynote with some kind of – at

01:49:09   least one like holy shit new product that's not shipping until fall because that – and

01:49:18   if it's a new category, they don't have to worry about cannibalizing their own sales.

01:49:21   They can pre-announce it like they did with the iPhone in 2007.

01:49:26   it lets them keep it secret longer because once it goes into the Asian

01:49:31   supply chain forget about it that's when everything come every they can't keep

01:49:35   that stuff secret yeah well then you know there may be FCC requirements right

01:49:39   you know you know it's gonna maybe have a radio in it so think like he needs to

01:49:44   know yeah yeah so like think like a really early June WWDC and you know then

01:49:55   that gives them June, July, August, maybe even September

01:49:58   to go from announcement to on shelves.

01:50:02   - You know, and that means they're gonna have an iPhone 6

01:50:07   and some iWearable.

01:50:09   - Well, they've been having two events in the fall

01:50:12   the last while, so I feel like what they could,

01:50:15   they wouldn't have to have another event

01:50:16   when it comes out, you know?

01:50:19   - Yeah. - But it would, you know,

01:50:21   it does load the end of the year down,

01:50:24   But I-- - God, yeah.

01:50:27   Yeah, but they're, you know,

01:50:28   they're getting so damn good at manufacturing.

01:50:31   I mean, that's, you know, that's Tim Cook's,

01:50:34   he's got that shit all wired, so.

01:50:38   - The only other thing I can think would be, you know,

01:50:41   to me, there's like a, they could do something in April.

01:50:45   They could, you know, send out invitations on some,

01:50:48   you know, Wednesday in April and say, you know,

01:50:50   come to Apple next Tuesday,

01:50:53   and we're gonna have something to show you.

01:50:55   They could do it in April, but once they hit May,

01:50:56   it's too close to WWDC.

01:50:58   Why bother?

01:50:59   Why not just wait till WWDC?

01:51:01   - Right.

01:51:02   - So I feel like there's a couple of weeks ahead of us

01:51:04   where maybe they'll do something,

01:51:06   but it doesn't seem like it.

01:51:07   Usually there's smoke in the air.

01:51:12   Smoke signals a couple of weeks before these things,

01:51:14   and I'm not seeing it.

01:51:16   - Well, one of the things Tim Cook did say

01:51:17   is that there would be new products announcement

01:51:21   throughout the year, right?

01:51:24   Not like at the end of the year.

01:51:26   So, yeah.

01:51:28   That's what I said earlier.

01:51:33   It seems like there's something in the air right now.

01:51:37   It's just, I had to,

01:51:40   I mean, I'm the first to admit,

01:51:43   I don't have an answer here.

01:51:45   And this notion that, okay, what if it's a ring?

01:51:50   That's just a what if, right?

01:51:52   I think it's not gonna be a watch,

01:51:53   not gonna be quote unquote smartphone.

01:51:56   What could it be?

01:51:57   That's just a what if and it's some of the things

01:52:02   that may solve some of those problems

01:52:06   that Apple is asking itself.

01:52:09   - All right, so let's give some plugs.

01:52:10   You can follow Craig on Twitter.

01:52:13   He's @chalkenberry.

01:52:15   - Yes.

01:52:18   Your day job is at the amazing Icon Factory.

01:52:23   - Yes, iconfactory.com.

01:52:25   - What's, plug some apps, what do you got?

01:52:28   You got Twitterrific?

01:52:29   - Twitterrific, Xscope, Flare, photo editing app.

01:52:34   Go to iconfactoryapps.com and you'll see all of them.

01:52:39   - Man, Xscope, Xscope does eight different things,

01:52:44   got eight different tools,

01:52:45   but it's the best screen loop ever.

01:52:47   So if you need to zoom in on pixels, you've got to have Xscope.

01:52:51   I'm working on a new version of Xscope right now, and there are going to be ten tools.

01:52:57   And the two new tools are pretty awesome.

01:52:59   I'm not going to say what they are.

01:53:01   Keep it to yourself.

01:53:03   Yeah, Xscope is, I mean as a developer, I can't do my work without it.

01:53:10   It really is that simple.

01:53:14   It's essential.

01:53:15   perfect in-house tool from the Icon Factory because it's the,

01:53:19   seriously, I'm not just saying it 'cause you're on a show,

01:53:21   it is the tool for people who actually sweat

01:53:23   the individual pixels of the artwork that worked.

01:53:26   - Yeah, it's, you know, back to the razors, right?

01:53:28   The Remington Shaver guy, right?

01:53:30   He bought the company because he loved the product, right?

01:53:32   Well, yeah, that's same thing here, right?

01:53:37   - All right, well, thank you so much for your time.

01:53:40   I really appreciate it. - Yeah.

01:53:41   - Always love having you on the show.

01:53:42   It's always a pleasure to be on it, John.

01:53:44   It's, uh, yeah.

01:53:46   Go have dinner.

01:53:46   I'm going to go make a Caesar salad.

01:53:48   I am.

01:53:48   Yeah, I am.

01:53:50   I'm hungry.

01:53:50   All right.

01:53:51   Talk to you later.

01:53:52   All right.

01:53:53   You're welcome.

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