The Talk Show

25: A Therapeutic Dose of Imodium, with Merlin Mann


00:00:00   I have a bit of a cold. Can you hear it?

00:00:03   Just when you sniffle. What kind of cold you got?

00:00:06   I got the good kind. I got the kind that I don't feel like—my whole body doesn't

00:00:10   feel sick. I only feel sick from the neck up. I feel like—

00:00:14   Oh, that's a good cold.

00:00:15   No, it's a good cold. I don't feel—

00:00:16   I hate a lung cold.

00:00:18   No, it's not a lung cold. I feel like my head is a prop in a Nickelodeon TV show.

00:00:25   [laughs]

00:00:26   Uh-huh.

00:00:27   Right?

00:00:28   Uh-huh, right just take it down from the shelf and snap it on and if you say the code word then this you know

00:00:34   Then all the goop is gonna is gonna come gush it out. Oh

00:00:36   God that was weird that guy that guy seemed to like that goop a little too much

00:00:41   Wasn't there some cute girl over the music career that was on there

00:00:46   My sister used to watch that show so the answer therefore I used to watch that show because

00:00:56   What else are you gonna do when someone else in your family with one TV set is watching a show?

00:01:01   That you don't even enjoy and that you're gonna sit there and comment about how you don't enjoy it every single day during the half

00:01:07   Hour that it's on there is nothing else in the universe you could do during that time than to sit there and complain about it

00:01:13   Mm-hmm. It's like you're chained together because there's times when you're gonna watch your baseball or whatever and she's gonna be moaning and so you could always

00:01:21   Cause a reaction similar to that when you watch it

00:01:25   Or as I understand I'm an only child as you know, but you can also hit her I understand

00:01:30   I wish I was an only child

00:01:32   Mmm, I you know, I never looked back John. I gotta tell you the truth

00:01:35   There's you know, I few things get under my skin the way the phrase just the one gets under my skin

00:01:42   I don't know why that bother me bothers me so much

00:01:45   But it really really bugs me and and I as an only child my daughter or my wife is the youngest of seven

00:01:52   so she, you know...

00:01:54   That's close to being an only child.

00:01:56   It is.

00:01:57   And when you're the youngest, you're very, you, well, I think there's really only one

00:02:00   only child in a seven-child family, and that's the oldest.

00:02:03   They take a thousand pictures of that kid, they take 500 pictures of the next kid, and

00:02:07   you can do the math.

00:02:08   There's one picture of my daughter playing, or my wife playing a puddle, and that's about

00:02:11   it.

00:02:12   I think there's one of her, like, getting a broken arm set in the garage or something

00:02:16   like that.

00:02:17   They have a copy of her...

00:02:18   I like it.

00:02:19   Fine, that's...

00:02:20   [Laughter]

00:02:21   It just says, "Madeline, 1978." But it's all rubbed off.

00:02:27   [Laughter]

00:02:28   Anyway.

00:02:29   Just a broken wrist.

00:02:30   But you're doing well. You sound great for a sick man. Now, you seem like a man who's

00:02:33   not afraid to tweak his body with chemicals. What do you take for that? You do a Sudafed,

00:02:40   you go to the pharmacy. Now here, if we want to get Sudafed, the real thing, the stuff

00:02:44   that really works, you gotta go—I guess it's federal. Do you have to go to the pharmacy

00:02:49   and plop down your license?

00:02:50   I have honestly given up on legitimate Sudafed. I don't know that we have any. We might

00:02:55   have some stashed away somewhere. I used to. I used to always suffer and take nothing.

00:03:00   And then Amy would tell me, "You're an idiot. You're all stuffed up. You've got

00:03:04   to take some Sudafed." And then I would take some Sudafed, and then I would realize,

00:03:07   you know, this is a—here's a medicine that actually does what it's supposed to

00:03:12   do. But it really is—I know you've—this is one of your recurring bits. But the way,

00:03:19   you know, the hoops you have to jump through now to buy Sudafed in the United States are

00:03:24   so absurd that I…

00:03:25   I didn't realize that was a bit. I apologize.

00:03:27   No, not even a bit, but it's…

00:03:28   It's very frustrating.

00:03:30   Yeah, because it's, you know, it's something that actually worked. It works.

00:03:34   Because, you know, people used to walk in there in the days when I would enjoy ephedrine.

00:03:39   It used to be you could walk in there. The ephedrine that I used to get, the really good

00:03:42   stuff, the unadulterated stuff that I would buy for band practice in the '80s, you get

00:03:47   bottle of like, I think, 50 for $3 American. So you can get a malt liquor and 50 ephedrine

00:03:53   for less than $5. So, you know, that's where I come from. So people would go in there and

00:03:58   these low-level doofuses would go in and steal packages and packages of Sudafed and then

00:04:03   I guess make a small amount of meth. My theory on this is that it is to stop illegal drug

00:04:08   production, I believe. But, you know, you watch mob movies. I don't think that's how

00:04:12   you do it. You want a Lufthansa-level heist, you're not going to go to the Walgreens four

00:04:16   times like you're gonna think bigger I think you have hijacked a truck you

00:04:19   don't stick something into your gang jacket and walk out yeah I don't

00:04:23   understand why it can't just be a reasonable limit you know that you could

00:04:27   buy I don't know 24 capsules in a single transaction at the counter because if

00:04:34   you know if it was some kind of reasonable limit like that then how would

00:04:37   you possibly amass large-scale amounts of this stuff it wouldn't be worth it I

00:04:40   mean you'd have to you know what if you just hop around town to every single

00:04:44   Walgreens that you would you know picking up 24 at a time that that what

00:04:50   by the end of the day you'd end up with I don't know you know 140 capsules you

00:04:54   have a sense of how much meth you could make on a day like that I don't know I'm

00:04:58   guessing not like a lot even if you have like a big bathtub and the right

00:05:01   chemicals I bet you can't make a ton of meth with that much cold medicine yeah I

00:05:04   just don't get it I feel like it's an overreaction and I've never I personally

00:05:09   have never enjoyed Sudafed and I know I guess I feel that way about a lot of

00:05:13   pharmacological you let go in the other direction yeah I like you like something

00:05:20   that calms the fella down yeah exactly exactly but I don't need a cold like

00:05:24   this I don't I don't need anything no suit you don't you ever do the Theraflu

00:05:29   I've tried crap like that never doesn't anything mmm-hmm

00:05:33   Theraflu and Imodium man that's what keeps this country running hey I would

00:05:39   I would get so much less accomplished in the aggregate without those two things

00:05:42   I'm not saying take them at once unless you're going to drink a lot of water.

00:05:46   But it's nice, you know, it's like Nietzsche says, it's nice to know it's there.

00:05:51   Imodium is one of the best names.

00:05:54   God, it's the best.

00:05:55   What a name they came up with.

00:05:56   Imodium.

00:05:57   What would you have called it?

00:05:59   I don't know, but somehow it connotes what it does without being gross.

00:06:03   And you know that that's what the meeting was.

00:06:06   That somebody at the meeting, they said, "Look, nobody's getting up from this table until

00:06:10   we come up with a name for this thing."

00:06:12   Right? We know it works. The boys in the lab have shown that it works.

00:06:16   [laughter]

00:06:17   Yeah, the pointy-headed guy from the lab is like, "Well, it has to end with oedium for legal reasons."

00:06:24   And they're like, "Yeah, but I want people to get a sense that it works immediately."

00:06:28   "Wait a minute. Let's go to the whiteboard. Immediate oed..."

00:06:33   And like, I don't know, impacted?

00:06:36   Oh, sure. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

00:06:38   The thing is, oedium is like beer. You know, they say you only rent beer.

00:06:41   beer? Immobile. You'll you pay for a emodium a couple days later. I don't want to derail your

00:06:46   show, but just so you know, if you take a lot of emodium, like a therapeutic dose,

00:06:49   it doesn't mean it goes away. You know what I mean? It's like you're basically, you're sweeping

00:06:55   that detritus under the rug and that rug will eventually get full. It's probably kind of gross.

00:07:00   I'm also, I also would like to, I don't want to derail your show, but I would like to thank you

00:07:04   also for first of all making me really want, what's the name of that drink? Henry Box Brown.

00:07:10   Oh my god. That sounds so good. And also, I'm just very grateful that you have taught

00:07:17   me about the existence of Mr. Henry Box Brown.

00:07:19   Oh, isn't that a great story? Isn't that a great story?

00:07:22   I thought it was an urban myth. I can't believe that's real.

00:07:24   There's a couple—I mean, I could go on and on and on about Hopsin and Londromat,

00:07:27   and someday—

00:07:28   My god, I want to come to Philadelphia, just to go to that.

00:07:30   Someday I want to—you know, you're the guy who I know, if I could get you in there

00:07:35   in the right mood, you would love it. But you're the one friend of mine who I worry

00:07:40   that maybe you wouldn't.

00:07:42   Is it like, talk about your drink guy rolled up sleeves, top-laced guy?

00:07:46   No.

00:07:47   But you might worry that it is when you get there. You might think, "Oh, this is going

00:07:52   to be one of those places," but it's not.

00:07:54   I think if I get a couple box browns under my belt, I'm going to open it.

00:07:57   Right. One of the things is—and you hear this, and I know you're going to worry that

00:08:02   the place—oh, it's that place. There's no signage. There's no marking on the outside

00:08:07   that says this is Hapsing Landromat. And in fact, it's in a stretch of Chinatown here

00:08:11   in Philadelphia. It's on a side of a street where you really wouldn't think there's

00:08:15   any open retail establishments on that street. On the other side of the street, there's

00:08:18   a couple of nice Chinese restaurants. But on this side of the street, it looks like

00:08:23   everything's closed, including the building where Hapsing is. And there's just a little

00:08:27   – there's like a metal gate in front of the door and a little buzzer. And you ring

00:08:32   the buzzer, and maybe a guy comes out and maybe nobody comes out. And you just stand

00:08:37   there and you wait, and eventually somebody comes out. And if there is any room available,

00:08:43   they will let you in. And if there is no room available, they will tell you, and then you'll

00:08:47   have to wait. Because they don't want anybody, it's a type of place, and I appreciate this,

00:08:52   it's more like a, almost like a restaurant where you're not allowed to just stand around.

00:08:57   You either have a seat at the bar, or you have a table, or you're not inside yet. They

00:09:03   They have a little ante room where you come in and, and Lee, the owner, he will explain

00:09:09   the rules of the place to you. The ante chamber, the entire floor is paved with tails up pennies

00:09:18   from corner to corner. Except there's two or three of them that are heads up if you

00:09:22   look closely. It's beautiful, though. It's really, really beautiful.

00:09:27   They have a, they have rules and apparently they have, is it accurate, they have a dress

00:09:30   code?

00:09:31   They do have a dress code.

00:09:32   So it's like the number one Google search is like for hops and laundromats dress code.

00:09:35   Yeah, definitely a dress code. You cannot, you can't get in there with shorts. Not really

00:09:39   a problem at this time of year, but no shorts, no flip flops. You got to look like an adult.

00:09:45   That should, that should just be a rule everywhere.

00:09:47   I think sneakers might be a problem. I'm not sure. So that might be the one thing that, that, that.

00:09:55   I mean, Jon, just for, I will, I will make it work. I'm going to come there just for that. I

00:09:59   I will make it work. And the key to this is the—well, maybe, do you want to tell your

00:10:05   audience what this is? It sounds like a very deceptively simple drink that has a couple

00:10:10   important elements.

00:10:11   Well, let me tell you the first time I had it. The first time I had it. I've been intrigued

00:10:14   by Hopsin ever since I heard about it, and it was supposed to open, I don't know, a

00:10:18   year and a half ago or something like that. And I had my eye on it and kept checking a

00:10:22   couple of—it was like the only thing that made me check the Philadelphia food blogs

00:10:26   and stuff like that. And it never seemed, you know, and I'd go past it and look and

00:10:32   of course, it even now it doesn't really look like it's open, but there was never

00:10:35   any sign that that the thing was ever getting closer to opening. And then about a year ago,

00:10:43   it was supposed to open right after like New Year's, you know, 11 months ago or whatever

00:10:49   it was, it was getting rumored that it was going to he was going to open soon. And the

00:10:53   word was that if you followed him on Twitter that you could maybe get invited in early.

00:10:58   So all I did was follow the guy. And I don't know, a week or two later I got like a, I

00:11:04   don't know if it was an at reply or a DM or something, but it was, you know, if you

00:11:08   want to come in for a tasting, we're having a tasting, invitation only tasting Tuesday

00:11:12   night, you want to come in. And I was like, yeah, of course. Although I know, you know

00:11:18   But actually, I could just go on and on with this guy.

00:11:22   It's so great.

00:11:23   Actually, what he did was, before I got invited to the tasting, he invited me and Amy to come

00:11:28   in one afternoon just to see the place.

00:11:31   That's right.

00:11:32   So, I didn't get a drink the first time I went in.

00:11:34   So, Amy and I come over, and it's like a Tuesday afternoon, and Jonas was still in

00:11:38   school.

00:11:42   And he lets us in.

00:11:43   What are you hoping?

00:11:44   Just out of curiosity, when you went there while Jonas was at school, were you kind of

00:11:47   hoping to get a drink? No, I—because I didn't think it was even legal, because I don't

00:11:52   think that it was, you know what I mean? There was like a licensing type situation. Not that

00:11:57   you can't, you know, pour one out, you know, on the slot. So you had one before you went

00:12:01   out. Right. But we go in, and we come in the main room, and it really is—it's just

00:12:05   a beautiful—it's just beautiful. I can't do any justice to it. I mean, there's a

00:12:08   couple of photographs that are out there of the room, but it really is just a beautiful

00:12:12   place, and he was showing us some of the stuff. But the whole time, there's a guy sitting

00:12:16   at a table in the middle of the room, a young guy maybe, I don't know, 22, 23. And then

00:12:21   offhandedly, we have no idea who he is. He's just sitting there, like sort of very straight

00:12:27   back. And about five minutes in, Lee lets us know that this guy was in here, he's in

00:12:30   here interviewing for a job as a bartender. And in the meantime, Lee isn't paying any

00:12:36   attention to him, and he had apparently abandoned the interview halfway to give me and Amy this

00:12:40   tour of the place. And I think it was a total fight club situation where he was testing

00:12:47   the guy. You know, like, what are you going to do if I stop this job interview halfway

00:12:51   through to give these other two people a tour of the bar and none of us acknowledge you

00:12:56   for 30 minutes?

00:12:57   Jared: It's a kind of employment hazing.

00:13:00   John: Yeah, I think so.

00:13:01   Jared; Let's see if you're going to make it here, Johnny. That's good.

00:13:04   John; But, you know, one of the things that hit me right, struck me right away on that,

00:13:07   even on that tour, is that he really does have the most extraordinary selection of liquor

00:13:14   I've ever seen in my entire life, in terms of bourbons and the stuff that I like and

00:13:20   can judge the quality of the collection. I mean, it really is sort of a, I don't know,

00:13:26   like a Stephen King type story where he's pulled some of this stuff from another universe,

00:13:31   you know, like all sorts of stuff I've never even heard of. Have you ever heard of Four

00:13:34   Four roses, bourbon. Pretty good.

00:13:36   Yeah, yeah, I get it confused because there's a bum wine with roses in it.

00:13:42   No, no, no. Four roses is pretty good. I think it's running around $30, $35. Really good

00:13:49   stuff. And then there's—

00:13:50   Somebody sent me a bottle of that once and it was terrific.

00:13:52   Yeah, it's really good. And then there's a four roses something something, maybe four

00:13:56   roses select or something like that, which I have seen as well. And I think it's maybe

00:13:59   like $10 more. He has four different Four Roses bourbons. He's got Four Roses, the

00:14:06   Four Roses other thing that I've heard, and then he's got these other two that are—it's

00:14:09   like, where do you get—how do you even get that? How do you get that? And it just—right

00:14:14   down the line with all of, you know, all of your favorite distillers. He's just got

00:14:19   Black Maple Hill, which is really good stuff. But then he's got Black Maple Hill Black

00:14:23   Label, which you can't get it. I don't even know where—it's like he made it up.

00:14:27   It's like he's got this one bottle of Black Maple Hill Black Label bourbon.

00:14:32   So I was super, super impressed.

00:14:33   Long story short, a week or two later, I get invited to a tasting.

00:14:36   The place isn't open yet.

00:14:38   And the way the tasting went is, it was, I don't know, seven or eight of us.

00:14:43   And we didn't get to pick anything.

00:14:45   He said, "Here, this is your first drink.

00:14:49   And you know, you tell me what you think of it.

00:14:53   What do you think it is?"

00:14:54   And I could tell right away, it was sort of like a screwdriver.

00:14:56   It was definitely orange juice.

00:14:59   I could only guess because of the lack of any other strong taste that it was vodka.

00:15:04   But there was like a frothiness on top.

00:15:05   I had no idea what he added.

00:15:09   And it ends up, nope, it was just a screwdriver.

00:15:11   Just fresh extracted.

00:15:13   He's testing you.

00:15:15   Fresh extracted orange juice and I think Ultimat, U-L-M-A-T vodka.

00:15:24   But because it was fresh extracted juice, it had this frothiness to it that was amazing.

00:15:28   And then the next drink he gave me was the Henry Box Brown, which is fresh extracted

00:15:33   red grape juice and El Dorado 15-year-old aged rum.

00:15:38   But here's the thing.

00:15:39   He gave me that drink.

00:15:41   And so what do you think?

00:15:43   Number one, I loved it.

00:15:44   It was just unbelievable.

00:15:45   It's just an unbelievable drink.

00:15:48   It's so refreshing, but it's also clearly a very, very, very boozy drink.

00:15:53   I had no idea what was in it. I had no idea. I couldn't tell that it was grape juice.

00:15:57   I couldn't tell that it was rum. I was like, "Ahh!" I don't know. Because I've

00:16:04   never heard of that. I've never in my life heard of anybody mixing grape juice and rum.

00:16:08   And in fact, that's all there is in the drink. You know, you hear "rum" and you

00:16:12   think stuff like, you know, you think tiki drinks, you know, pineapple.

00:16:15   Yeah, I think of like getting a headache. Like, I can't drink a lot of rum.

00:16:19   Well, rum can—

00:16:20   I don't enjoy it, like the way I enjoy bourbon.

00:16:22   Well, and rum, I've done – I know a thimbleful about rum compared to what I know about bourbon.

00:16:28   But one of the problems with rum is that, unlike a lot of other liquor around the world,

00:16:33   it's unregulated.

00:16:34   So, like, there's a lot – you can't call something – me and you can't just

00:16:36   get together with some stuff and make something and call it bourbon.

00:16:40   Like bourbon –

00:16:41   Or champagne.

00:16:42   Exactly.

00:16:43   Exactly.

00:16:44   Like champagne.

00:16:45   It's very highly regulated.

00:16:46   You have to – I think even – it's so regulated, you have to make bourbon in Tennessee.

00:16:48   I don't think you can even call it bourbon if it didn't come out of Tennessee or something.

00:16:52   like that. I don't know. But it's really, you know, and the percentage of wheat versus corn,

00:16:59   it has to be in a certain, you know, very narrow range. You know, like there's like truly like a

00:17:06   legal definition of the difference between bourbon and rye, etc., etc. Well, there's no such

00:17:11   regulations around rum. You can make anything that, you know, anything.

00:17:14   Pete: You can make bathtub rum.

00:17:16   Ted, Jr. Exactly. And you can just call it rum, which is why rum tends to, you know,

00:17:20   Exactly. Why people associate it with headaches.

00:17:22   So, it could be those—I'm pulling this out of my ass—but it could be the kind of impurities

00:17:27   that have been introduced owing to a lack of regulation.

00:17:30   Exactly.

00:17:31   It's like buying generic drugs.

00:17:32   And I think tequila suffers similarly from, you know, that the low-end stuff is truly—

00:17:38   Oh, now that I'm a tequila guy, I so notice the difference. It's a huge difference.

00:17:42   And it just gives the whole liquor a bad name, though. Right? Because, you know,

00:17:47   Well, a really good tequila is no reason to be concerned about, like, you know…

00:17:53   But unlike bourbon, the difference between a medium good tequila and a bad tequila is

00:17:58   huge.

00:17:59   Oh, yeah.

00:18:00   I mean, it's really, it's crazy.

00:18:01   Like, I get…

00:18:02   Oh, I forget what I get.

00:18:03   I'm usually drunk when I'm getting it.

00:18:05   But the…

00:18:06   No, I get, like, I get the…

00:18:07   I like a white…

00:18:08   You know, I make this thing, they call it the paleo cocktail.

00:18:09   This is…

00:18:10   I don't know if I've ever made you drink one of these.

00:18:12   No, I don't think so.

00:18:13   But it's…

00:18:14   Oh, dude.

00:18:15   It's tequila, lime juice, and SodaStream.

00:18:16   stream. Oh no, I've had one of those. Yeah. Oh, it's... I didn't know you caught it and I had a name for it though.

00:18:20   Well, you know, that's what they call it. But it's, it's the perfect drink. It's, it's so refreshing and

00:18:26   you can make one in about seven seconds, which is nice. But, but you know, the thing is, I use the

00:18:31   Blanco, right? And then if I, if I'm, if I got to go to the Bodega and get the Jose Cuervo Gold, it's

00:18:37   like, ugh, this is like, you know, Jimmy Buffett, you know, like, urinated in a steel pot or something.

00:18:42   I don't I just don't care what your ratio. What do you what do you what do you?

00:18:45   What's your measurement publicly or privately?

00:18:48   Publicly you just put in a little bit a little bit of tequila

00:18:51   Yeah, well what's but what I do is I put it

00:18:55   I put it in until I think that's just a little bit too much, and that's what I know it's good

00:18:59   I see don't and then I don't measure

00:19:01   Measure it now

00:19:02   Eyeball it. You know my ball. You measure your day. I do measurement drinks. I even measure my martinis

00:19:06   I'm gonna I'm not telling my wife this I'm gonna go out after our program your program

00:19:10   and I'm gonna go get if I can find we have a pretty good not too annoying wine

00:19:15   and liquor store that I that has stuff like I bet they got this El Dorado now

00:19:19   can you make this at home am I am is that a fool's errand what you'd have a

00:19:22   great juice I bet the grape juice is the heart yeah because he's got this fancy

00:19:26   extractor behind there it's it's I bet Marco has one yes I bet he has three

00:19:32   everybody has two that he doesn't like if Marco has a juice extractor he's got

00:19:35   the one that that Lee has at hop sing it's like you know it looks like it

00:19:39   works pretty fast it's stainless steel and I found I found two that were

00:19:43   difficult to clean it looks like it's easy to clean so that if if me and you

00:19:48   were both bartending there and I'm making one with the grape and you're

00:19:51   waiting for me because you've got to make a one with the oranges next that

00:19:55   it's easy to clean you know it just looks like the the best juice extractor

00:20:00   so I don't know but apparently people have said though that you can just

00:20:04   muddle the grapes in in a mixing thing I mean it's probably not quite as good

00:20:09   But I'm sure you get pretty close with, you know, pretty close.

00:20:13   Yeah, I'm going to measure this one now. That sounds fantastic.

00:20:16   But like I said, it's this thing where I've had some good rum drinks over the years, you know,

00:20:22   that I've enjoyed at, you know, like at the Disney, what's that, the Polynesian thing where…

00:20:28   Oh, sure.

00:20:28   You know, you put…

00:20:29   Is that still there? The Polynesian's still there?

00:20:30   Yeah, yeah. You know, you go in there and make a rum drink and pour it into a carved out pineapple

00:20:34   or something like that. But that's what I associate with rum drinks. You don't think grape,

00:20:37   I don't know. It's just crazy. It's the craziest combination, and it's just the best drink.

00:20:42   It is... You know me. I do. I love the bourbon. I love the martinis. I'm telling you, though,

00:20:46   if I found out on a desert island that the only booze I could have for the rest of my

00:20:50   life were Henry Box Brown's, I'd be fine.

00:20:52   I'm going to try it. Well, I think, you know, of the numerous things I like to think that

00:20:56   we have in common, I think our liquor preferences are pretty close.

00:21:00   Well, and...

00:21:01   Also, Scott Simpson. He just drinks a lot more.

00:21:03   Well, and...

00:21:04   It's not a problem. He's got it under control.

00:21:06   Here's the other thing I love about the Henry Box Brown one, telling people, trying to explain

00:21:09   my love of Hopsin, is that you get in there and you're going to be worried. I know I was

00:21:15   worried. I was worried that I was setting myself up to be just worried.

00:21:17   That's kind of a—yeah, you were right to be worried, because I'm on board. I'm still

00:21:20   on board. Do they have big square ice cubes?

00:21:24   They're not—you know what? I think the ice—

00:21:25   They're not joking. They're not the most jokey-sized ice cubes?

00:21:28   No, no. They're, you know, they're big cubes, but they're not one big cube.

00:21:33   But you're, but there are definitely red flags. If you went into these places, and I'm not

00:21:37   going to talk about this a million times, but like these places you go to in San Francisco

00:21:40   and LA that are like the Haunted Mansion, you know, you go in and it's real silly and

00:21:45   it's like a Tom Waits song and everybody's super serious, "No cell phones allowed,"

00:21:50   you know, or like, "Hey, you have to like type out a request on the typewriter before

00:21:54   we let you in." Okay, I get it. You know, but this sounds like a terrific place. And

00:21:59   And the thing is, the proof is in the pudding. If you can get in there and get a drink and

00:22:03   enjoy it, then it's a good place.

00:22:05   Right. So, uh, Hapsing, I think, has very reasonable cell phone rules. You are allowed

00:22:09   to use your phone, but you are not allowed to make a phone call. This is for the enjoyment

00:22:14   of your patrons surrounding you, and you are not allowed to take photographs. And this

00:22:18   is for the privacy of all the people who are in there.

00:22:20   No, I think that's a reasonable rule, that if you're in there, if you're in there,

00:22:25   You can rest assured that your photograph is not going to be taken.

00:22:29   So you can—

00:22:30   Well, this is probably better, say, for a different program, but if you could just capture

00:22:34   this.

00:22:35   I think at some point you and I should take our big podcast money and come up with a place

00:22:39   that will have, yes, B, awesome drinks, but A, will have the most exhaustive and inscrutable

00:22:44   set of rules that any place has ever had.

00:22:48   And it's extremely difficult to find.

00:22:49   Maybe it's got three doors and sometimes they're locked.

00:22:52   I don't want to get all you guys today, but I think we could make a lot of dough in either

00:22:56   of our cities by having a place that's extremely difficult to understand and in which you might

00:23:01   be thrown out at any point for reasons.

00:23:02   It would be a lot like if Mao had a bar.

00:23:04   There would be stuff happening that would be very hard to understand.

00:23:07   Well, maybe it's open in both cities, but it's technically one establishment, so it's

00:23:15   never open on the same day.

00:23:17   We found a loophole that allows us to have one liquor license for the entire place and

00:23:22   maybe it shuts down, maybe you get two hours there, I get two hours here, we throw everybody

00:23:27   out, and there's a different password when you come in. There's a place to tell them.

00:23:30   The schedule is always different week to week.

00:23:32   It is, and it's written in Mandarin.

00:23:34   And it just says, like, if you just show up on Friday night on whatever street in San

00:23:38   Francisco, it says, "I'm sorry, we're open in Philadelphia tonight."

00:23:41   Maybe you gotta solve a Sudoku to get in. I don't know, but I mean, you wanna keep it,

00:23:46   you wanna keep it—I think these, the kind of people who go to these places, they really enjoy

00:23:50   that level of theatricality. Can I ask you one more bourbon question?

00:23:56   Yeah.

00:23:57   I have a feeling I'll know the answer. Have you tried Eagle Rare?

00:23:59   I was gonna say no, but I think...

00:24:05   You probably don't remember.

00:24:06   I may not remember. No, it's Ring and Abello. Eagle Rare.

00:24:09   Eagle Rare is one of those ones where there are definitely... They have an Eagle Rare...

00:24:15   Let me get this right. I think their standard one, I want to say, is 10 years.

00:24:20   And it's really, really good. And then they have another one. I want to get this right for

00:24:24   posterity. There's another one that is more costly and longer aged. And it's just one of the best

00:24:32   things I've ever had in my life. It's incredible. I have had it. I don't know where. I'm looking at

00:24:36   the bottle now. And now that I see the bottle... It's definitely one of those ones that you want

00:24:39   to probably just enjoy, you know, with a little bit of rocks. I mean, it's... or not. It's really

00:24:45   good. Yeah, I have not, I do not have it in the house. I've never purchased it, but I know that

00:24:50   I've had this somewhere. I can't remember where though. But one night we had to record a "You Look

00:24:56   Nice" today, so I needed something to drink, and I grabbed the first thing that we had at home,

00:25:00   that we had a bottle of, which is this Eagle Rare, the fancy one. 17, I see this. They have a 10 as

00:25:06   the standard, and then they have a 17. Ooh, and I've never seen that. Ooh, that's a pretty good.

00:25:11   See, there's always another level, right? It's that you get deeper and deeper into that place

00:25:14   over Pirates of the Caribbean or whatever, you get a fancier room. But, you know, it's

00:25:20   a silly story, but I grabbed it and brought it to work. I thought, "Oh, hey, this is

00:25:24   cool." Because it had been a gift that actually Mina had given to Matt for doing a little

00:25:28   favor for her. And then she said, "Oh, well, can I get her something?" I can get her

00:25:30   a bottle of something. I grabbed it and brought it to work and started making a variation

00:25:36   on this. Now, this is blasphemy, I know. But yeah, it's bourbon, right? It's bourbon

00:25:42   with some lime, and I cover it up with some SodaStreams, very similar to the tequila drink.

00:25:48   And I got about three-quarters of the way into this, and I happened to mention to Simpson

00:25:52   that I was drinking that. He said he was drinking some too. And he said, "Oh, did you know

00:25:55   that's $50 a bottle?" I was like, I was so embarrassed, but luckily I was so intoxicated

00:26:03   that it didn't stick with me. So then I bought another one to replace it for her, because

00:26:06   I'm a gentleman, and then I drank that one too. But if you can get that stuff, I don't

00:26:10   if you want to get at the Hopsing, but if you want to have something to enjoy with your

00:26:13   lady after hours, it's real good.

00:26:16   And now I know why I'm familiar with it. It's from the Buffalo Trace people.

00:26:21   Oh, okay.

00:26:22   Remember what we did in New Zealand to the Buffalo Trace?

00:26:27   Oh my god! Is that when we ran them out of liquor?

00:26:30   You know, New Zealand, they don't—the Wi-Fi there, they get like Hayes Modem-style Wi-Fi

00:26:35   for $400 a day, right? You want to buy a coffee? It takes 35 minutes and costs, I don't know

00:26:42   what the kiwi money is. And they do not have a lot of bourbon, as we discovered.

00:26:47   Well, that was embarrassing.

00:26:49   The story is that we were there for web stock to 28—

00:26:53   What was that guy's name? What was the bartender's name?

00:26:54   Houston.

00:26:54   Houston.

00:26:55   Houston. I love Houston.

00:26:59   So we're at—I forget the name of—what's the name of the—the hippopotamus?

00:27:02   I think it was the hippocampus.

00:27:04   Yeah, hip-hop-a-bottomist bar at the hotel where everybody who was a speaker at WebStop was. And

00:27:10   we were all there on the first day. We're all deeply, deeply jet-lagged because, you know,

00:27:17   it's like the, you know, couldn't be more jet-lagged.

00:27:20   Steven: It was a 15-hour flight for us. And you had Philadelphia to San Francisco on top.

00:27:25   We flew together. But you had Philadelphia to San Francisco and then San Francisco to New

00:27:28   Zealand. How long was that? It had to have been 20 hours.

00:27:30   Yeah, but we had like a we had like a

00:27:32   Four we had like a five-hour layover

00:27:35   Didn't get a hotel we got a hotel room and fell asleep for three hours, which was the smartest thing

00:27:39   It was like the best 150 bucks

00:27:41   I ever spent was the 150 bucks to get a hotel room for two hours

00:27:45   Or three hours and and sleep a little bit between the flights

00:27:49   Well worth it. But anyway, we get there and and we get up to the hotel bar and it's afternoon

00:27:55   It was I don't know like for

00:27:57   4.30 and everybody's sort of meeting each other and we find out that the hotel bar had

00:28:01   like every month they had a special cocktail and this month's special cocktail was the

00:28:06   bourbon old-fashioned and we were like well we're the we've seemed to have booked the

00:28:11   right hotel and like three days later this bartender who was awesome he had this real

00:28:17   theater remember the way he houston would uh when he would take the he was almost like

00:28:22   a cast member. I mean, he was very energetic and very fun and like, not teasing, but you know what

00:28:28   I mean? Remember, he was just, he was really engaged, and it was fun to give him something

00:28:31   like $17 per drink. It was really, it was fun. Wasn't it costly? It was pretty costly.

00:28:36   It was, you know, it was like, I forget, I, you know, it was one of those things where

00:28:39   their dollars or whatever they call the things are so close to ours but not quite that it threw

00:28:44   me off. Where you'd— Yeah, it's like 1.1 birds to a buck or something.

00:28:47   Right. It would be like, you know, an $18 drink and I'd think, "Well, no, wait a second. With

00:28:51   the conversion. Does that mean I'm paying 20-some dollars, or does that mean I'm only paying 12?

00:28:57   Dr. Justin Marchegiani I do that with time and money.

00:28:59   Dr. Justin Marchegiani Right.

00:28:59   Dr. Justin Marchegiani I calculate the opposite way.

00:29:01   Dr. Justin Marchegiani But, uh, you know, and they had options.

00:29:03   You could make it with this if you want to. There was like a whole page, like the—in

00:29:06   the cocktail menu, one whole page was specifically for the old fashion and they had all these other

00:29:11   options you could do. But Houston had a real nice way of taking a grapefruit peel. That was what he

00:29:17   was putting in him. And then he would twist it and light a match and sort of, you know,

00:29:24   explode the—I don't even know what that is in a citrus thing that is from—

00:29:29   Not a rind, but the—

00:29:30   Yeah, the rind, you know, the—

00:29:31   Twist, the twist thing.

00:29:32   Yeah, and somehow if you do it at the—if you time it right when you squeeze it and light a match,

00:29:36   you can make a flame burst out and it sort of, you know, puts like a smoky hint to the rind as he

00:29:43   garnishes your drink. And anyway, within two days, it was, "Well, I'm very sorry, but

00:29:48   we're all out of Buffalo Trace bourbon." And then it was like, "Oh, well, I'll take…"

00:29:53   And it was like, "Well, in fact, we're all out of bourbon." And he was so apologetic.

00:30:00   But this is like a real… The thing is, though, you have to understand that this is, you know,

00:30:03   this is a real bar. This isn't like something that's been slapped onto a Marriott booth

00:30:08   by Hot Wings. This is like a nice bar with a nice restaurant.

00:30:12   I had a nice view. It was like up on the fourth floor. Had a real nice view of the—

00:30:15   It wasn't the kind of place that goes, "Oh, we forgot to order bourbon."

00:30:18   No, it was Bourbon Month.

00:30:20   It was a seismic event in the bourbon world of this bar.

00:30:23   It was Bourbon Month. And I believe that what we ended up doing—

00:30:27   [laughter]

00:30:28   I think that—

00:30:28   It was Bourbon Month.

00:30:30   I think they still had Jack Daniels. And so we ended up letting them make us old-fashions

00:30:34   out of Jack Daniels, which is sort of, you know, poor form. And he was very apologetic about it.

00:30:41   but it was amazing we'll try that Eagle rare and I've already made a list here I

00:30:46   got my to-do list stop here and I'm gonna I'm gonna get the Marara rum from

00:30:52   Guyana called 15 year old El Dorado oh god that sounds good you want red grapes

00:30:58   I think red anyway though it bottom line though is that here's the thing you

00:31:02   think the place is real fussy and here's the thing Amy and I have this and there's

00:31:05   a whole bunch of other places in town in Philly that are like this I know I've

00:31:08   been to the the Birmingham branch out in San Francisco and that a lot of these

00:31:13   cocktail places number one they dress the bartenders up old-timey style they

00:31:16   don't do that at hop sing everybody just wears a white shirt and a black tie

00:31:19   that's it there's no old timiness to it you look it's more like a reservoir dogs

00:31:22   look without the jacket every you know you look you know everybody looks the

00:31:25   same you can tell who works there but you're not there's no fake you old-timey

00:31:28   nobody has a mustache but here's the thing all the drinks that a lot of these

00:31:33   craft cocktail places sound really really good until you get to the last

00:31:37   thing and then it's like, "Ooh, why would you put that in a drink?" And then it's, I think

00:31:41   you're supposed to be like, the fact that you can get it down makes you better than other people,

00:31:46   because there's, you know, a little bit of an extracted dog turd in there.

00:31:52   Exactly. It's like, we know we're no Albert. We're no soul brother when it comes to drinks.

00:31:57   But just from my, you know, semi-pro drinking, it does strike me that sometimes it is a lot like a

00:32:06   a place that wants to be a fancy food place. Now this works. You've been to French Laundry

00:32:11   here in San Francisco?

00:32:12   Oh, yeah. I go there every time.

00:32:14   For real?

00:32:15   No.

00:32:16   Oh. Sorry. Well, French Laundry is one of those places.

00:32:18   I have a table at the corner.

00:32:20   It's a Thomas Keller place that was like the best restaurant in America two years in a

00:32:24   row. And it's an event to go there.

00:32:26   Arguably, maybe, possibly, you could argue, the best restaurant in the world.

00:32:30   You remember when Jason and Meg like saved all their change for a year to go there?

00:32:34   Yeah.

00:32:35   But it's really amazing. And you go in there and it's first of all, this is a D-Rock, we're

00:32:39   not talking about iTunes, but it was a, it is completely event dining and they do something

00:32:43   that almost nobody else does well, which is cute. They do cute really well. Not cute,

00:32:48   but you know, too clever by a half, they pull it off. Here, let me bring you these, this Peanut

00:32:54   and Gel-E sandwich. And it's all just like silly puns on something that like, you know, but the

00:33:00   peanuts are made out of, you know, artesana lamb or something. Anyway, but it works. But it strikes

00:33:05   me that a lot of these places try to do that, especially in a tourist area. They can make

00:33:08   it fancy if they—would you call it desiccated dog dirt? Like, you add something to it that

00:33:13   is like the wrong ingredient. You go, "Oh, well, that sounds fancy. We've taken something

00:33:15   really mundane." Like, you know, like a lamb shank. God, one of the worst lamb shanks I

00:33:20   ever had was at Disney World. You get a lamb shank, which is the most disappointing part

00:33:24   of a lamb apart from maybe the horns and the sorrow.

00:33:26   It's even like the butcher's trying to warn you with the word shank.

00:33:30   Shanks Shanks screams variety, you know, it's anyway I want to derail it

00:33:35   But but you know, but I agree with you and and if you and there are places

00:33:38   There's kind of soup Nazi sorts of places where once you know

00:33:40   How to go there?

00:33:43   It maybe it becomes even like a point of pride like you can go there and you know that it's casual like you know what?

00:33:48   I mean like now you're not gonna be scrutinized as much because you're you're a regular right?

00:33:54   You know, you know how it goes. You're not gonna show up in Tevas, right?

00:33:58   Well, the thing is is that to me and it goes with everything whether it's food whether it's drinks whether it's picking a font or

00:34:04   Something like that

00:34:05   Sometimes the best thing to do is is not gonna win you any accolades for being a genius or being clever

00:34:11   But it's just the right thing to do and you should be humble enough to just do it sometimes

00:34:15   So for example, here's a drink where the right thing to do is just it's just grape juice and rum and it's shaken

00:34:22   And it's cold and it's good and that's it and there's no right this there's no, you know

00:34:27   an elderberry flower topped on it or you know. Well yeah, it's like that movie I didn't finish

00:34:33   watching about the, what is it, Jiro Dreams of Sushi or whatever, about the guy that makes the

00:34:37   best sushi in the world or whatever. And you know, I thought it was, it could have been a one-hour

00:34:42   documentary I think, but it was still interesting because all this guy does is do sushi. But what

00:34:47   he puts, what he and his family and the people who work at this 10-seat sushi bar put into it

00:34:51   it is astonishing. I mean, you know, but it is still, he's, I say he's buying the same

00:34:57   tuna, that's not entirely accurate, but everything he does, this comes back to our old thing

00:35:01   about, you know, taste, you know, and class and decision making and what you don't do.

00:35:06   And he has chosen to do this thing for whatever, 50 years, and he does it better than anybody

00:35:11   and people pay $300 for a 15-minute meal at this place. It's like a 10-course sushi meal

00:35:16   in 15 minutes. But everybody who goes there, people who go there over and over, people

00:35:20   from Japan who know sushi, food critics that are like, "There's just no other meal like

00:35:24   this in the world," but it's, he's just making sushi. I could go here and it's all, in my

00:35:28   neighborhood it's all actually, as Scott Simpson had to tell me, it's all Chinese people in

00:35:31   my neighborhood that work at the sushi place, but it's, some places are good, some places

00:35:36   are better. And then for reasons you can't explain, sometimes, as with the Mythical Man

00:35:40   month, sometimes it's just ten times better. And it's definitely true with font choices.

00:35:45   You give the same Helvetica Noi to fifteen people and you're going to have extremely

00:35:48   different results. You know, it's just weird. There's just a kind of like the going to a

00:35:53   butcher shop where they know how to cut it up and choose. It's a completely different

00:35:57   experience. Which is a good way to get into iTunes.

00:36:02   Exactly. I should probably do a…

00:36:05   Yeah, tell me about something you like.

00:36:06   I should probably do a sponsor break. You know what, our first sponsor, I am very happy

00:36:13   to say once again is Tonks coffee. You know the Tonks?

00:36:19   Jared

00:36:20   Is this the, now forgive me, you can cut this out. This is the things you put in to keep

00:36:23   your coffee hot? Is that right?

00:36:25   Jon

00:36:26   No, it's not.

00:36:27   Jared

00:36:28   Are these the things where you snap the pieces together to make a Death Star?

00:36:30   Jon

00:36:31   Exactly.

00:36:32   Jared

00:36:33   What's Tonk, Jon?

00:36:34   Jon

00:36:35   Tonks, it's great. You sign up, they go around the world, they find great beans from all

00:36:40   over the planet. Literally, I talked about this last week with Glenn Fleischman. I mean,

00:36:44   like different continents, they go everywhere. They roast them, they do it the right way.

00:36:48   They seal them up in these great bags, and they mail them right to your door. And so

00:36:53   you don't have to buy coffee anymore. You sign up for Tonks and world class coffee from

00:36:58   around the world just shows up in your mail slot every couple of weeks on a regular schedule.

00:37:05   you never have to your house always has world class coffee fresh delicious ready to go it's

00:37:14   just a simple small company that does one thing finds great find and roast great coffee

00:37:19   and sends it right to you the entire company is 100% focused on helping you brew great

00:37:27   coffee their website has all sorts of great advice on how to make coffee very very simple

00:37:33   ways. It just couldn't be better. I couldn't be happier with it. This coffee is just delicious.

00:37:40   I'm drinking some again right now. Couldn't be better. Marco Arment, I don't think he

00:37:45   drinks anything else. I think he refuses to drink any other kind of coffee. That says

00:37:48   all you want to know about whether it's the best or not. And look at the look at the calendar,

00:37:54   folks. Holidays are coming up. Here's the deal.

00:37:57   Jared 0 You don't you don't want to send Hickory

00:37:59   Farms. You don't want to say Hickory Farms.

00:38:00   You know what? There is that aspect. And I've, you know, you know the Christmas Vacation

00:38:06   movie where he wants the big bonus check because he's going to put a pool in the backyard

00:38:09   for the family and it ends up, what did he get? The Cake of the Month Club? What did

00:38:13   he get? What did he get? I forget what he got. He got something of the Month Club instead.

00:38:20   And there is, I think there's, maybe there's a bad connotation to signing somebody up for

00:38:23   the Blank of the Month Club thing as a gift. But I'll tell you what, this is different.

00:38:28   Because if you know someone who loves coffee, you're not signing them up for, you know,

00:38:33   Sanka's flavored coffee of the month thing.

00:38:36   You're signing them up for the best coffee in the world.

00:38:39   I really think that this is true, that it's the best coffee in the world.

00:38:42   I think it's a great holiday gift for anybody who drinks coffee.

00:38:46   And what I'm looking for is the deadline date for holiday shipping.

00:38:53   Well, they should probably just do it now.

00:38:56   Yeah, you should do it now.

00:38:58   the deal. I got it right here. If you sign up for a free trial, you'll get it next week,

00:39:03   you can try the product in time to consider talks as a holiday gift, you go sign up right

00:39:09   now at talks.org to nx.org. You'll get your free sample free, they'll just that's how

00:39:15   confident they are. You'll get it, you'll make it you'll decide.

00:39:19   Tonks gifts can be purchased through the 16th of December for Christmas delivery. I wouldn't

00:39:26   wait that long. Me, I'm the type of guy. I got my holiday shopping done back in July.

00:39:32   But that's the deadline, 16th of December. But if you act right now, we're recording

00:39:37   here on the – what is it, the 30th of November. Most people are going to be listening to this

00:39:40   in December, presumably. Sign up at tonks.org. Get your free sample. Judge for yourself.

00:39:47   And then by the 16th of December, you could order Tonks as a holiday gift for others.

00:39:50   It's a great, great service, great company, great coffee. I really appreciate their continued

00:39:56   support for the talk show. Where do I go to sign up for this? TONX.org. Can you spell that?

00:40:01   T-O-N-X dot O-R-G. Great branding too. I just love it. I love everything about it. I love their

00:40:08   copywriting, everything. Love how it looks like "Strange Love." Oh, it totally does. Look at that.

00:40:15   Okay, I'm signing up.

00:40:18   Ah.

00:40:19   iTunes came out.

00:40:20   What do you think of the new iTunes 11?

00:40:25   I like it.

00:40:26   I, you know, it's—

00:40:27   Yeah, no, I'm hesitating, because I, unfortunately for you, I make copious notes in prepping

00:40:32   for this.

00:40:33   Yeah.

00:40:34   I don't want to be the karma suck.

00:40:35   I don't dislike it, but it's still, you know, it's been a day, right?

00:40:37   We've had it for a day, and as messed up in so many ways as iTunes has been, it's

00:40:43   the devil you know.

00:40:45   And so now I'm... I'd like to hear... It's your show. I'd like to hear you talk about

00:40:49   it because you seem to like it a lot and I want to... As usual with new Apple things,

00:40:55   it seems like you are trying to run pretty stock settings and give the default state

00:41:01   of it kind of a chance, is that correct?

00:41:03   Definitely.

00:41:04   In terms of like how things are displayed. Because that was... My first thing just was

00:41:07   that I was very disorienting to me to open up. I never look at things in either, you

00:41:14   know, cover flow or album mode. It's just not how I think about the stuff I've got.

00:41:18   It's nice to have, but it was so hard for me to figure out what I had to change to make

00:41:23   it where I could find things. But I got a couple thoughts on that, but tell me what

00:41:27   you think.

00:41:28   Steven: Uh, I, you know, I never used album view before either, but I think I am now.

00:41:34   Although I'd still think, as the day has gone on, I do find though that sometimes what I

00:41:39   I want. I know I'm in the mood for the Rolling Stones. I got a whole bunch of stones albums.

00:41:45   But it doesn't seem though that like, like what I want then is to click, go to artists,

00:41:51   and then there's a list of artists clicks the Rolling Stone, and then have the album

00:41:55   view in there. But it doesn't seem like you can get that you get like a like it's album,

00:42:01   but it's more like a list view by album rather than this new magic. Here's just the albums

00:42:06   just click it and you get that nice expanded view underneath. So I'm not 100% sure that

00:42:14   the new stuff has been thoroughly baked conceptually?

00:42:18   Yeah, I mean, there's… I'm getting too far into my list to start with this, but yeah,

00:42:26   one of the things that I find a little baffling in addition to how to get to what is called

00:42:30   list view is you seem to have different options… Well, can I do one meta thing just as a suggestion?

00:42:35   that if you're listening to this and you can, I would suggest opening up a copy of iTunes 11 on your Mac

00:42:42   and

00:42:44   maybe like turn down the slider on your volume really low if you want to play along with this because there's some things that are

00:42:50   going to be easier to explain than to, you know, you know what I mean? Like, do this with me kind of stuff.

00:42:55   It's, I was, like I said, I was a little bewildered when it came up in that album view because, and my first thought was, okay,

00:43:03   Usually I just go click over here in that little tabbed thing where you would say, "Do I want to see this by which of these four methods?"

00:43:11   And I always pick the simplest list way, partly because I'm a real weirdo. One of the things I frequently sort by is "Date Added,"

00:43:18   which I have trouble getting the Music tab to remember, is that I want my default view to almost always be date added.

00:43:27   That seems weird. But that's, you know, I don't think of this in the same way that I

00:43:32   think of a typical library, where I need it to be organized by Dewey Decimal, you know,

00:43:40   or Library of Congress, or alphabetical, just because that's not how I think about the music.

00:43:45   And so, anyway, so my first thought was, "Ahh!" Of course, panic, as with, you know, like

00:43:51   you covered a long time ago, and you ended up being absolutely right about when they

00:43:54   they changed the scroll direction. Of course, you know, I immediately went in with Lion

00:43:58   and made it the other way, but now it totally, I went back to the way it's supposed to be

00:44:03   now and I love it. It makes sense. It makes sense across devices. So, you know, the typical

00:44:07   thing, you're better off to go with Apple's way because that's the way Apple is going.

00:44:11   And so try their way. And I liked it okay. There's a lot of mystery meat navigation and

00:44:18   buttons that I thought were kinda confusing, but I think I'm getting it.

00:44:23   There's one thing I still am confused by. You tooted about this, like how do you get

00:44:27   to column view?

00:44:28   Column browser. It's not clear to me,

00:44:32   like it will be in a couple days probably, like when I'm

00:44:35   eligible to be in column view. Like it's probably really simple.

00:44:39   You click songs. You click songs.

00:44:42   But then there's other stuff for like sometimes

00:44:46   it seems like it changes the way that it presents stuff to you based on like if

00:44:50   you've done a

00:44:50   obviously i think the search thing is pretty great when it shows you like what

00:44:53   you keep your stuff live in the search

00:44:56   but there are some things like the movies view was kinda bewildering to me

00:45:00   uh...

00:45:01   i don't see i i have enough time to say all this correctly but there are several

00:45:05   things about that initially found confusing that i'm now figuring out and

00:45:09   and and in a way i almost wish i could reset it

00:45:11   to how it shipped

00:45:13   just is just to try it again

00:45:15   But, yeah, there's some stuff I really like about it, and a lot of things I find really bewildering.

00:45:20   The number one thing...

00:45:22   Now, this might have been in there before. I'm almost positive it wasn't, 'cause I would try it once a week and it didn't work.

00:45:27   Do you have it open right now?

00:45:28   Yeah.

00:45:29   Hit Command-2.

00:45:33   Command-3. Command-4.

00:45:35   What's that doing? I don't even know what I'm doing here.

00:45:37   Look in your side rail over there.

00:45:39   Yeah, see, I don't have the side rail anymore.

00:45:41   Oh, jeez.

00:45:42   It jumps you between Music Movies TV Podcasts.

00:45:44   Which I've wanted forever.

00:45:46   Yeah, I got that. I see that now.

00:45:48   And that may seem like a small thing, but what I'm doing is when you hit Command-1-2,

00:45:52   sort of like, it takes you to the section of your library for music, movies, TV shows,

00:45:57   which I actually found really useful, mainly because I hop between music and podcasts a lot.

00:46:02   You know, movies and TV shows I tend to watch, I guess for somewhat obvious reasons,

00:46:07   I tend to watch on an iOS device or Apple TV, but for the audio stuff I'm jumping around a lot.

00:46:12   I mean, here's my real quick gut check on this, is that I will probably be using Search

00:46:16   Library a lot more, is my first thought. Because I think it's pretty good. And for getting

00:46:23   to the music I want fast, I have not found a faster way to get there than Search Library.

00:46:27   And it works better. It does, I think. Don't you think it works a lot better than it used

00:46:32   to?

00:46:33   Absolutely. It's got a couple weird—it's got like one pseudo-bug that drives me a little

00:46:38   bit nuts, but it's very fast and it gets me where I want to be.

00:46:42   Trevor Burrus I also like the way that in the search results

00:46:45   that it includes album art wherever it can. Because I do, it just works better for me.

00:46:57   It's like the way that I like the way that Safari uses favicons right there in the URL

00:47:02   bar because it helps me know, like on certain websites, you know, "Oh, I know where I

00:47:08   am."

00:47:09   Absolutely. And I mean, I think as ever—

00:47:12   Like a branding thing. Like, I see that that's the—I know that album. So here it is.

00:47:17   Well, and what's weird about that is it seems like a feature like that would mean

00:47:20   a lot more to people of our generation because we're more accustomed to flipping through

00:47:25   albums, cassettes, or CDs and going, "Oh yeah, this is Houses of the Holy." Or whatever.

00:47:32   I bet there aren't that many people aren't as many people today especially because people download stuff

00:47:36   And it may not have correct album art. I mean I'm constantly saying find the album art and they can't find it

00:47:41   Yeah, me too. I do have that but

00:47:43   And actually I have a tip for that, but I mean like here's one thing. It's a little weird

00:47:47   You want me to try something? Yeah, first of all like are you big on?

00:47:50   Keyboard navigation when you're typing text

00:47:54   Do you do like the command shift and the option shift and all that yeah move through text? Do you do that a lot?

00:47:59   Yeah. Okay, so hit command F and type Tom Petty. Okay. I'm just guessing stuff I think you'll have.

00:48:07   I don't have any Tom Petty. Okay. 43 albums. Okay, so go to select Damn the Torpedoes.

00:48:15   You know, I don't think I have Damn the Torpedoes. I know we have it over there on the CD rack.

00:48:21   I don't think I have it.

00:48:22   Here's a real quick version of this. This is so stupid, but this is the kind of thing that drives

00:48:25   me bananas. Go ahead and play any song. Start playing any song. Any song anywhere.

00:48:29   All right. Are we going to add it as we're going to...

00:48:33   I turned my volume way down on my iTunes.

00:48:35   All right. All right.

00:48:36   So you got a song playing?

00:48:38   Yeah.

00:48:40   Okay. And now go to search library and type in Weezer.

00:48:43   Okay.

00:48:46   Okay. And then act like you misspelled it and actually wanted to type something else. Now me,

00:48:52   I hit Command-Shift-Arrow to select everything that I've just typed.

00:48:56   Yeah, that works for me.

00:48:57   It selects the type.

00:49:01   Okay, do it without the shift to just go to the beginning.

00:49:04   Ah, what did that do?

00:49:07   Next, oh, I see.

00:49:09   Yeah, without the shift.

00:49:10   Okay, now that's it.

00:49:12   Now what it just did for me was it started that song that's playing again.

00:49:16   Yeah.

00:49:16   Because it's totally natural behavior in iTunes to hit Command, left and right arrow.

00:49:22   Yep, next previous track.

00:49:24   Now, that's probably expected behavior for most people, because who uses that kind of

00:49:27   nonsense?

00:49:28   But it is a weird thing, like Tom Petty.

00:49:30   iTunes to me has always felt like an app that works okay.

00:49:34   I'm not going to get into iCloud.

00:49:37   Like iCloud, like a lot of things, like Address Book, they're pretty great things for a casual

00:49:42   user to have a moderate amount of data in. It's just that now, especially with iTunes

00:49:48   Match, I have so much stuff in here and I'm, you know, I find myself on the one hand like

00:49:54   being appreciative of this looking prettier and stuff, but right now it doesn't feel,

00:49:58   there's still stuff about it that makes me feel like it's not that much faster for

00:50:02   power users. And for people who want to become power users, there's still a lot of opacity

00:50:08   that I would like to see less opaque, personally.

00:50:12   Do you know what I mean?

00:50:13   - Yeah, I think so. - What record

00:50:16   are you on right now?

00:50:17   Are you on a record?

00:50:18   Can you see like-- - I'm on the,

00:50:20   Pack Up the Plantation Live.

00:50:22   - Okay, and are you at that view

00:50:23   where you get like the artist and you get like the,

00:50:26   can you see like play, shuffle, arrow,

00:50:29   all of those next to the name of the artist?

00:50:31   - Yes, yes.

00:50:32   - Okay, something else over play.

00:50:34   - Okay, got it.

00:50:37   - What do you get?

00:50:38   Nothing.

00:50:39   Okay.

00:50:40   Mouse over that arrow on the right.

00:50:42   Right.

00:50:43   Nothing.

00:50:44   But I can click it.

00:50:45   I mean, if I click it, something will happen.

00:50:47   Do most people do that?

00:50:49   Do they click?

00:50:50   Maybe.

00:50:51   Yeah.

00:50:52   Like, you go to the thing with the list view, like the LI view up in the, which is, as we

00:50:57   all know now, up next.

00:50:58   Like mouse over that.

00:50:59   Like, why is there not mouse over text for that?

00:51:01   Yeah.

00:51:02   I guess there could be some kind of, you know, like, if you, you know, like a web page, like

00:51:06   you pause for a little bit, pause for a little bit and it'll hover something.

00:51:09   And now go, now, now...

00:51:11   And that's my complaint with that, that, that mysterious cloud icon next to the, the top

00:51:17   left thing where you pick music, movies, TV shows.

00:51:19   Yeah, what is that, what is that for?

00:51:20   Is that for, I think, I think that means update my iCloud.

00:51:23   Yeah, but clicking it doesn't do anything.

00:51:25   Eye match.

00:51:26   Really?

00:51:27   And hovering doesn't show anything.

00:51:28   Yeah, and right now mine is animating.

00:51:29   I've got these little diagonal lines.

00:51:30   I think that means it's updating, I think that means it's updating your collection.

00:51:33   Yeah, but I don't know, but I, so I understand that while it's updating why they would show me that, but when it's not

00:51:38   updating and it's just an empty cloud, I really don't know why they show me that. There's a cloud there that I can't do anything with.

00:51:45   I can't click it. I can't control click it.

00:51:47   Well, and to be pedantic, I'll say again, just because it is standard in every other Mac app and web page,

00:51:53   I mean, do you ever go to preferences in a, in,

00:51:55   this is like in almost every Mac app, and I think there are a lot of people that don't know this, so it's worth mentioning.

00:52:00   mentioning. If you have somewhere where there are selections to be made, like in preferences,

00:52:05   in almost every Mac app and every good Mac app, if you have a choice between four radio

00:52:09   buttons, you can mouse over a radio button, whether it's selected or not, and it'll tell

00:52:13   you what happens when you click that.

00:52:15   Right.

00:52:16   Which I think is kind of cool. So, to me, if I mouse over that cloud, like, what the

00:52:19   hell does that mean? If I mouse over that, it should say, for example, in my case, I

00:52:23   have a white cloud, which, a fluffy white cloud, which I guess means everything's copacetic.

00:52:27   Yeah.

00:52:28   But, like, now go a bit less on these, I hope, but go back to, like, the view of that Plantation

00:52:34   record and click Play, the little arrow next to the artist name.

00:52:38   Right. Got it.

00:52:40   Well, okay, then click Play again.

00:52:42   All right.

00:52:43   Like, oh, well, shouldn't that be Pause?

00:52:47   Yeah, it does.

00:52:48   Shouldn't that turn to Pause?

00:52:49   Yeah, it's weird. It doesn't turn to Pause. What happens instead is every time you hit

00:52:51   Play, it just restarts the song.

00:52:53   Which again, maybe that's silly, but in the way that this works, I want this to be...

00:52:58   Hey, they've chosen modality. That's fine. Let's live with modality.

00:53:01   But to me, modality means I should be able to do something like hit 1 for music,

00:53:06   and if I tab... Well, the thing is, I've got, you know, the universal access on,

00:53:10   so it goes to like freaking everything.

00:53:12   But I mean, if you look at this, if you'd never run this app before and you opened up,

00:53:16   I just feel like there's so much opacity to like what all this means.

00:53:20   like, "Okay, so I mouse over the name of the album, and then now I get an arrow next

00:53:23   to it, which gives me options." But it's almost like a play button. Do you know what

00:53:29   I'm talking about?

00:53:30   Yeah.

00:53:31   If you go up to that little view, dingus. I mean, that's cool. Like, I'll get used

00:53:33   to that. But, hmm, I don't know. I mean, I mean, to just bitch about it. There's

00:53:37   a lot about it that I like better. I wish these fonts weren't so big.

00:53:40   Well, here's one that I find interesting, and I'm not quite sure. I guess it's one

00:53:46   One of those things where…

00:53:49   I always come back to the analogy, the Disney analogy, the guy on Pirates of the Caribbean,

00:53:54   the one pirate who's got a foot on the dock, one foot on a boat, a handful, like a treasure

00:53:59   chest and like 13 hats on his head.

00:54:03   And he's teetering because it's, you know, how the hell are you going to get on a boat?

00:54:06   How are you going to get off the shore onto a boat that's on the water doing that?

00:54:10   That's like the hardest thing in the world is going from the old thing that was stable…

00:54:13   some kind of David Blaine thing.

00:54:15   To the new thing. And I feel like that's where iTunes is, and a lot of Mac stuff is for Apple,

00:54:22   is that they know they've got the new thing, which is a lot simpler and doesn't have the

00:54:27   cruft and the baggage and all this historical stuff, which is iOS. And they got the old

00:54:32   thing, which is the Mac, which is really, really powerful and lets you do all sorts

00:54:37   of stuff you still can't do on iOS. So how do they get from there to here? And it's really,

00:54:41   really hard. So here's my perfect example of that. One foot on the shore, one foot on a boat that's

00:54:47   already on the water and isn't even tied up, is go to a song in this expanded view thing, and you

00:54:54   hover over the song title, and you get that little right-pointing chevron. You know what I mean? It's

00:55:00   like a— So like if I go back to my Tom Petty record, I'm going to search by artist. See,

00:55:05   even this view—okay, so I'm by artist and I'm on Damned Torpedoes. Like, so next to "Refugee,"

00:55:10   I click on the what looks like a closing bracket.

00:55:13   Yeah, like a, it's like a greater than sign in a circle.

00:55:16   And what do you get?

00:55:17   It does the same choices as what you got up in the thing.

00:55:20   Play next to next, that one.

00:55:22   Right.

00:55:23   So it's like a contextual menu, right?

00:55:24   Now.

00:55:25   Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like control clicking.

00:55:27   What happens, yeah, but what happens if you control click on the song?

00:55:31   You get an entirely different menu.

00:55:33   Oh, come on.

00:55:34   Right?

00:55:35   Control click on it.

00:55:36   I did.

00:55:37   Right.

00:55:38   I can't believe it.

00:55:39   a regular Mac style contextual menu. It's, you know, it's right out of the system frameworks.

00:55:46   It's a regular system standard wide menu. It's in Lucida Grande, the system font. If

00:55:52   you go to one with a submenu, the submenu, as soon as you hover over it, it pops off

00:55:57   to the side, right? Now, look at the new one, the one in that little chevron menu. When

00:56:01   you click that –


00:56:03   Oh, genius suggestions. That's cool.

00:56:04   **JEFF DEIST**

00:56:05   Well, but does it open when you hover over it?


00:56:07   again, so I'm control-clicking.

00:56:08   Okay. No, no, not control-clicking. Don't control-click.

00:56:11   Okay, sorry.

00:56:12   Go back to the one that you just regular click on, the chevron, I don't know what you want

00:56:15   to call it.

00:56:16   Okay, got it.

00:56:17   Right? Now, you go down, there's one, like, genius suggestions, add to, the ones that

00:56:19   have another menu off to the side.

00:56:22   Huh.

00:56:23   It doesn't open when you hover over. You have to click on it.

00:56:26   Oh, my God, really?

00:56:27   Click on it, and then it slides in.

00:56:30   Oh, come on. Okay.

00:56:31   All right.

00:56:32   I guess I could get used to that, but that's really weird.

00:56:35   Well, it is really weird and very different for the Mac, but I do think that for most

00:56:41   people – I think it's a reasonable argument to be made that this is the way submenus –

00:56:46   Because it works like iOS.

00:56:47   It works like iOS.

00:56:48   This is the way submenus always should have worked.

00:56:50   And everybody knows – all the usability studies show that hierarchical menus, you

00:56:56   lose easily 95 percent of all users.

00:56:59   As soon as you go to a menu and you go down and there's a little thing to the right

00:57:03   and there's a submenu, people –

00:57:04   This is actually pretty well done, and the plus sign next to it, this is actually pretty

00:57:08   cool once you understand it.

00:57:10   Right, but it's absolutely, it's not like a regular menu at all.

00:57:15   And you know, I sat there and hovered over it waiting for it to open for like 10 seconds,

00:57:20   and then I thought, well, if I click, oh, and then it slides into place and it's animated

00:57:24   and it's really nice and you can go back.

00:57:26   But it's totally unlike a standard Mac contextual menu, and the standard Mac contextual menu

00:57:32   is still there, which offers an entirely different set of things you can do to the song.

00:57:36   Steven: It offers a lot more stuff.

00:57:37   Steven. Although actually it doesn't, they're not, but they're not even separate though.

00:57:41   There's, so you could do play next from both menus, right?

00:57:44   Steven. Yeah, but you can't do get album artwork from the new.

00:57:47   Steven. Right. The new one is very limited. The other one, the standard Mac one has all sorts of

00:57:51   complicated. So all this, the nerdy stuff is still hidden in the control click one,

00:57:55   like create AAC version. Reset plays.

00:58:00   Do you think that's one of those, you know, I don't know, you probably have a name for

00:58:04   this, but one of the things like allowing you to do reverse scrolling, you think this

00:58:08   is one of those, like, a legacy thing for the nerds?

00:58:10   Yeah, sort of, I think.

00:58:11   Or is it just, yeah?

00:58:12   Yeah.

00:58:13   Because I don't think that they, I don't think they could get rid of the, well, they

00:58:16   could get rid of it, but I think that, you know, they obviously haven't, they haven't

00:58:19   really gotten rid of anything in iTunes.

00:58:21   You can still do everything you used to be able to do.

00:58:23   Do you listen to, you don't listen to that mini podcast, right?

00:58:26   To the what?

00:58:27   You don't listen to too many podcasts, right?

00:58:29   I don't.

00:58:30   Well, one of the things if you... a feature I've always really liked, and again I'm ready

00:58:33   to be wrong about this, but hit whatever command four or go to podcasts.

00:58:36   Right.

00:58:37   This is another example of that.

00:58:38   One of the things I used to really love is like I would go, "Oh, like I..."

00:58:42   This is something I subscribed to a while ago.

00:58:43   I don't want to unsubscribe, but I also don't want to see that there's 35 episodes I haven't

00:58:47   listened to.

00:58:48   Right.

00:58:49   And it used to be a control click to say, "Mark All As Played" or "Mark All As Unplayed."

00:58:53   Right.

00:58:54   And now if you go to the title and you click on it, you do get the old school, you know,

00:58:59   presumably the same you know I mean the whatever you want to call it the old school

00:59:03   Contextual menu contextual menu, but that's gone now. Yeah mark all is red is not there. I don't see it

00:59:10   Yeah, well you know whatever that seems weird, but I actually use that a lot in our assess readers

00:59:14   I use that a lot in if I've been away for from a high-volume site for a few days

00:59:20   I'll just frequently say mark all is red if if it's not anything too current that is that is that's an unusual decision

00:59:26   It's a better decision. I mean I was driven crazy

00:59:28   I went to a site the other day of this artist, this comic artist I like, and it has the usual

00:59:34   kind of old-school navigation where it's like, what do they used to call it, when you get

00:59:39   the drop-down menus.

00:59:40   So you click, and you say, "Okay, show me gallery," and then gallery has four or five

00:59:45   selections.

00:59:46   You say, "Oh, cool, comic covers."

00:59:47   You click comic covers.

00:59:49   And when you click comic covers, it gives you different publishers.

00:59:54   Okay?

00:59:55   I click Marvel.

00:59:56   And then when I get to Marvel, it's different like series.

01:00:00   And it's like none of those things become content until you get to the very, very end.

01:00:06   And as it happened on this site in iOS, even when you got to the end, it didn't do anything.

01:00:09   I'm guessing it was kind of like wonky JavaScript or something.

01:00:12   But no, that's always been a totally flawed way to deal with that.

01:00:16   And I think, you know, when did contextual menus come along on OS X or on Macs?

01:00:22   No, it was sometime in the Mac OS 9 era.

01:00:26   Right, right. But I mean, it's, you know, even then...

01:00:28   Mac OS 8, maybe? Sometimes in Mac OS 8.

01:00:30   I bet there was something somewhat grudging about that decision because Windows had already

01:00:35   done that, right? That was a huge...Windows' right-clicking was something that people...setting

01:00:41   aside the one-button, two-button thing, whatever, but not...people used to do that so often

01:00:46   in Windows. I think it's much more of the pattern of using Windows, at least in those

01:00:50   days.

01:00:51   Oh, definitely.

01:00:52   So, even then, that might have felt like a satisfy--not a satisficing, but, you know,

01:00:55   a not totally embraced decision to do that. But, you know, it's never been fun. Like,

01:01:02   right now, my services menu--and yes, I know there are things to clean this up, but owing

01:01:06   to things like Brett Terpstra's Markdown stuff and a lot of other things I've added,

01:01:11   my services menu is crazy now, or I guess I should say my contextual menu in the Finder.

01:01:17   And given that, the width of the contextual menu is governed by the name of the longest

01:01:22   item.

01:01:23   Ah, yeah.

01:01:24   It's giant, and it's got like 30 things in it.

01:01:27   It doesn't look like a menu, it looks like a window.

01:01:30   It kind of does.

01:01:31   It looks like a literal menu, like in a restaurant.

01:01:33   Right.

01:01:34   But, you know, I think the one that I use, this is actually, I try to be helpful, I think

01:01:37   it's called Services Manager, is the one that I use.

01:01:39   Oh, I never heard of it.

01:01:40   Services Manager lets you go in and change without having to go to that awful thing on

01:01:45   the Apple.

01:01:46   Yeah, open up Services Manager.

01:01:47   You can go in and turn services off very easily.

01:01:52   You can, so if you do leave it on,

01:01:55   you can set whether it appears in context menus,

01:01:57   and you can set the key commands all from here.

01:01:59   Which, you know, the truth is though,

01:02:02   any power user who's gone to keyboard to do this,

01:02:06   it's, I don't know about you,

01:02:07   but the fastest Mac I've ever been on,

01:02:09   I still get a beach ball waiting for services to update.

01:02:12   - Yeah, totally. - Right?

01:02:13   And then the other nice thing here is that then you can say,

01:02:16   is a number of allowed items in context menu and you could say you want two,

01:02:21   three, four, five, six, ten, unlimited. So you can choose how many things. So

01:02:24   personally I think contextual menus are way underused by most people, especially

01:02:27   in the Finder or for that matter in, you know, BB Edit or TextMate. There's so

01:02:32   much stuff that you can do with those services. You're a services fan, right? You

01:02:36   pointed me to that services maker thing a few years ago.

01:02:41   You can take a shell script and make it into a service. Service, what was it called?

01:02:44   service? I forget what that's called. I know it's by a guy named Jesper. This

01:02:50   service? This service, that's right. And that's sort of semi obviated by

01:02:54   Automator as of like Lion, where Lion lets you make. Yeah, theoretically.

01:03:00   Although I think this service is one that's a little bit more efficient. For somebody

01:03:04   who knows anything about Unix, which is not me, the idea of input output or

01:03:07   filter is pretty transparent. Right. But anyway, I'm getting off the topic, but I

01:03:13   I don't know. I mean, I think I'm going to get used to this, but there's...

01:03:18   Do you have any trouble with Command-L?

01:03:20   I feel like I'm sometimes getting trouble with Command-L working or not working, and I rely on that very heavily.

01:03:26   In what app?

01:03:27   Sorry, in iTunes. Hit Command-L, takes you to the currently playing song.

01:03:31   Oh, I didn't know that.

01:03:32   Oh, dude. That's a lifesaver.

01:03:34   That's nice.

01:03:36   So you probably haven't had a problem with that.

01:03:39   I'll tell you one that's driving me nuts. Do you ever open playlists in a new window like I'll say

01:03:43   I want to make a new playlist for a road trip

01:03:45   I'll create the new playlist and then create it in a new open it in a new window whichever do that in iTunes I have

01:03:50   Previously I'll go double-click one of them now

01:03:53   Womp womp right it doesn't go in a new window, and you don't get it's all officially a one window out right yeah

01:04:00   I like but here's a here's an interesting decision that they've made which I think is

01:04:05   is new, and I'm not sure, I don't want to pass judgment either way on it yet, because I'm not sure, is the way that

01:04:12   in the interest of showing fewer things on screen at once,

01:04:16   they don't show the sidebar unless you want to turn on old-fashioned mode, but as soon as you start dragging a song,

01:04:22   your playlists open up from the side.

01:04:26   Oh, I'm gonna have to try that. So just grab any song and start dragging it.

01:04:31   Sorry, I get stuck on the talk site here, signing up.

01:04:35   I should multitask. So, I'm taking a song from anywhere and I start dragging it, correct?

01:04:40   Right.

01:04:42   And what am I looking to do? On the right side, doesn't a list of devices and playlists

01:04:47   comes into... that isn't always there, only when you're dragging.

01:04:51   You start dragging and you get a little list, it slides in from the right, of

01:04:55   devices and playlists. So you could add a song to a device or you could add a song

01:04:58   to a playlist.

01:05:00   I'm in an album, I'm in music, I'm looking at AC Newman's "Get Guilty."

01:05:05   Are you talking about hitting the chevron?

01:05:07   Just drag the song.

01:05:08   Drag and drop.

01:05:09   Oh, okay.

01:05:10   Drag it like you're moving it somewhere.

01:05:12   And then off the side of the right side, you don't get a...

01:05:15   You don't get a...

01:05:16   No, maybe I'm in the wrong view.

01:05:17   Let me try it by songs.

01:05:19   Let's see if it works if I'm in songs.

01:05:21   I was in albums.

01:05:22   It should be anywhere.

01:05:23   As soon as you start dragging, you get a little thing from the side.

01:05:26   I'm not getting that.

01:05:29   I wonder if I have something turned off.

01:05:31   Yeah, I don't know how that's...

01:05:33   Here, I'll take a look.

01:05:35   That sounds like a great idea.

01:05:36   So it immediately gets that, hey, they're grabbing this because they want to put this

01:05:39   someplace.

01:05:40   Let me give them the option.

01:05:41   Right, but it's very untraditional, though, that the destination isn't visible until you

01:05:48   start dragging, and then as soon as you're done dragging, it goes away.

01:05:52   Because you have to know...

01:05:53   The only way you would...

01:05:54   You have to know it before you would try it.

01:05:56   That's kind of what I was trying to get at with.

01:05:58   wasn't trying to be a dick about it. That's kind of what I was trying to get out with

01:06:00   the opacity about those icons is in my experience, in my very small bit of user

01:06:05   experience stuff, people are not too excited about clicking something unless

01:06:10   they know what's going to happen. That goes back to the days of wondering if

01:06:13   you were going to reformat your hard drive. That sounds silly to nerds, but

01:06:16   there are a lot of people who will not just click. I mean, look at how many

01:06:19   things in this interface have an arrow, to be honest. Look, that's one way to look

01:06:24   at it. If you go back to album view and go look at a Tom Petty record, I mean,

01:06:27   I mean, there are so many arrows. There's an arrow for iCloud. There's a chevron.

01:06:32   Was that the right word? Like a brack chevron? Whatever. Not a chevron, but like there's a bracket for your contextual menu.

01:06:38   There's a contextual menu one for each song when you mouse over. There's a contextual menu one for the app.

01:06:44   There's two intermingled arrows, meaning shuffle. There is an arrow, a, you know, a sideways triangle for play.

01:06:53   Then much of those things are repeated in the thing at the top

01:06:57   There's and then of course is the big arrows for play rewind Etc. I mean almost every piece of interface in this is some kind of

01:07:03   an arrow

01:07:05   And and and that to me

01:07:06   I would you know even I've used this stuff for a while, and I still look at that and go well

01:07:10   I know what shuffle means you know what I mean. Hey, do you have the sidebar showing yes?

01:07:16   All right turn off the huts hide the sidebar hide sidebar now now drag us on okay that must be it

01:07:22   Let's see, now I want to go to my clicking, I'm clicking.

01:07:27   Oh!

01:07:30   That's neat.

01:07:31   Right.

01:07:32   So it doesn't happen if you have the sidebar showing because you don't need it.

01:07:35   But if you hide the sidebar, which is the default view, when you drag a song, this right

01:07:42   side sidebar of destinations where you might want to drop a song, devices and playlists

01:07:48   appears.

01:07:49   Adding it to a device.

01:07:51   That is really interesting. I'm on my non-primary iTunes, so I do have my ticket through my

01:07:56   Air, and so I'm on my ancient Mac Pro right now. And if I sync it to grab it to device,

01:08:01   it probably won't work. But this is pretty sweet.

01:08:03   Right. Well, there's a way that you can pick a movie or show to load up on your iPad before

01:08:07   you head off to the Air.

01:08:08   Is it doing that locally, or is it saying, "Go be wise and get this from the cloud on

01:08:12   that device"?

01:08:13   I think it's – if it's by USB, it'll copy it by USB, and if you have the device set

01:08:18   up to sync over Wi-Fi, it'll push it over Wi-Fi.

01:08:21   It won't just do it by iCloud, though. It'll do it over your local Wi-Fi.

01:08:24   Well, two, I mean, like, two things, two great things that have been there forever that are

01:08:28   still worth telling people about are the "Add to." So, like, or, see, now this is crazy.

01:08:34   So, if you use the new non-contextual clicky chevron next to a song, you get "Add to,"

01:08:41   click "Add to," and you can add it to a playlist.

01:08:43   Right.

01:08:44   That's, I think that's a great feature. But, now, do the contextual menu version of that

01:08:48   and you get something even cooler, which is "Show in Playlist." Do you ever use that

01:08:51   ever used that? I use that all the time. So let's say, if you're like me and you've got

01:08:55   a million playlists like the Doofus, you might want to say, "Oh, I want this in that Party

01:09:00   1999 shuffle. Show me it in there and play it in that context." Or something I used to

01:09:05   love back on the Creative--

01:09:07   Well, that is a good feature.

01:09:08   Yeah, and something I used to do back on--I think it was on the Creative, maybe on the

01:09:11   Diamond Rio player, was in a shuffle--in the middle of a shuffle, there was a dingus for

01:09:16   saying, "Continue playing." It was along the lines of, "Play this." By clicking

01:09:21   whatever it's called, it functionally started playing it as the track it was on the record.

01:09:26   So if you, if "Rocks Off" came up, you could say, "Continue playing album," and

01:09:31   then it would play the rest of "Exile on Main Street."

01:09:34   Ah, that's a great feature.

01:09:36   It's a great feature.

01:09:37   Because there are certain songs where when I hear them, then I immediately want to hear

01:09:40   it. That usually happens to me with Zeppelin songs, is as soon as I hear one, I need to

01:09:43   hear the one that I know comes next.

01:09:45   chugga chugga chugga chugga chugga.

01:09:47   What I do in that case, for what it's worth, is hit Command-L to show me the playing track,

01:09:51   and then I'll say, then I'll do that right-click to show in that album.

01:09:55   So it can show you just in the straight-up legitimate album, or you can hit, of course,

01:09:59   the revealing arrow to take you to that album. One weird thing that's been happening forever in

01:10:04   iTunes that drives me nuts, you know, you can go in and flick, I don't know if I did this with

01:10:08   Onyx or whether I did it legitimately, but you know where you can change the arrow to mean

01:10:14   iTunes store or yeah, so I had it set to show to me in the collection was the weirdest thing like yesterday

01:10:20   I was like I want to go to the danger mouse record

01:10:22   I clicked the arrow and it took me to everything by danger mouse even though I clicked on the album

01:10:26   I thought was kind of weird, but you know I mean this is this is the thing I mean yeah

01:10:31   It was sort of like it

01:10:31   There was like a hidden preference that was more or less like stop trying to upsell me well

01:10:35   Yeah, it used to be I guess a p-list II thing that on like on one of those onyx or you know yeah

01:10:39   There's apps. What do you use for stuff like that?

01:10:42   I usually, honestly, I use like the terminal and I just type the defaults right com dot.

01:10:49   Oh, interesting. Okay, but you don't go in and do stuff like hide desktop or…

01:10:55   Not anymore, no.

01:10:56   Change the font size in my finder sidebar?

01:10:58   No, no.

01:10:59   God, you're a pussy.

01:11:00   No, I've given up on all that.

01:11:01   I remember it was about the music. Yeah, good for you. Good for you, moved on. But you know

01:11:06   what's interesting? I mean, the big trend everybody, you and all your buddies always

01:11:10   talk about that is actually turning out to be pretty interesting is this move toward

01:11:17   being more iOS-like, which I think is entirely sensible, you know, in a lot of ways. I think

01:11:23   for file management, it's an almost utter failure, but for stuff like this, I get why

01:11:29   they do it. It's a shame that iTunes on my iPad is one of the worst apps I have ever

01:11:34   used in my entire life. But if they can improve the desktop version by taking some of those

01:11:40   patterns. I'm all for it. Once you get the iCloud thing, it's really clear. I'm

01:11:46   looking at, you know, what am I looking at? Abba's Definitive Collection. It's very clear.

01:11:49   Oh my god, that's what I'm looking at. Abba Gold. Greatest Hits. Shut up. Honest to god. I got that too.

01:11:53   I got that too with no album art. Boom. Yeah. Oh yeah. Let me see here. Get some

01:11:58   Dancing Queen going. Yeah! Oh god, that's great. It's such a good record. Oh man, I listen to that

01:12:03   every day. Yeah, we've got Gold and the Definitive Collection. Used to be the

01:12:06   only thing that will help our daughter go to sleep. Play count, 1992. Oh, really? Oh,

01:12:12   no, wait, no, that's the year the album came out. I did a screen grab of ours the other

01:12:16   day and it was like, "Everlong," which looked like lullabies in "Everlong." Title. No,

01:12:23   you've got to have a couple of Springsteen songs at the top. Yeah, you know, I reset

01:12:28   a while back. Thunder Road was way high, but, you know, having a kid screws it up, because

01:12:34   Because now we've got—I love They Might Be Giants, but I don't listen to Fibber Island

01:12:39   quite as much as my daughter.

01:12:41   Well, ours is still—it's permanent, I mean, until one of us, or both of us, I guess,

01:12:46   eventually lose our iTunes history.

01:12:48   But ours is Yellow Submarine.

01:12:49   Oh, that's right.

01:12:50   That was your go-to.

01:12:51   That was our go-to that when Jonas was a crybaby infant, that was the red button underneath

01:13:01   the protective glass cover.

01:13:03   last resort. If this doesn't work, we don't know what we're we may have to drop

01:13:07   turn keys sir right we yeah we both had to turn the key we both had to agree

01:13:13   let's go to yellow submarine and it never let us down I remember when you

01:13:18   talked about on the other talk show I was walking around New Zealand and you

01:13:21   were talking about that I remember that for us now yeah you know I got my kid

01:13:24   into Queen it's been amazing oh that's good but the thing is here's the thing

01:13:27   about the yellow submarine thing that made the play count so high it was that

01:13:30   Once you went to yellow submarine you had to replay it. They had to keep going you had to keep going until they went to sleep

01:13:35   He'd stopped crying. He would smile. He would get happy fault. You had to follow through had to keep going

01:13:40   Just yellow submarine over and over and over

01:13:43   our plate count on that song is just

01:13:46   It's right. No, we had that we had a similar thing. Well for a long time for us

01:13:50   It was drier sound and it was they had like had like 14,000 plays or whatever because we were just we had we had one

01:13:56   I um

01:13:57   What's the little tiny one?

01:13:59   Ipod Mini?

01:14:00   We had a hair dryer.

01:14:01   Well, no, this is –

01:14:03   It was a 45-minute track of a hair dryer.

01:14:06   Here's what you do when you're real stupid and have a little too much money at the time.

01:14:10   I had one Ipod Mini that was nothing but the dryer sound.

01:14:15   we went, I could plug it in and hit play, and there would just be "Aaaargh!"

01:14:21   For those of you who don't know, the kids like – there are certain white noise –

01:14:26   Certain white noise! Some of them don't like running water.

01:14:29   Right, but your kid might have a – and Jonas' was a hairdryer. And you can go and you can

01:14:35   quick Google these things and you can just download the sound of a hairdryer. I remember

01:14:39   it used to always make me think, obviously, completely irrationally, that playing the

01:14:45   hair dryer sound was wasting so much energy. And then I would think—

01:14:51   Talk about skeuomorphism.

01:14:52   I—and I would—and then I—every time we went to it, I would think, "God, it's—all right,

01:14:57   it's—shut them up, this is great. God, I can't believe how much money we're going to spend on—"

01:15:00   And then I think, "Oh, no, of course not!" But it—every single time, it would make me think we

01:15:05   were—we were blowing a bunch of money, but screw it.

01:15:07   It's worth it.

01:15:09   It's worth it.

01:15:09   can't believe you had a book

01:15:12   that's in that we're at some creepy you know here's the thing here's the thing

01:15:15   that i see is the big scale

01:15:18   big picture trend that i was is leading is is

01:15:22   it is about contextual miss

01:15:24   and it's about

01:15:26   visual

01:15:28   uh...

01:15:29   obviousness

01:15:31   and so the the reason that

01:15:34   contextual menus worked in windows is that it does make a lot of sense where

01:15:38   what you in a certain way where you're saying look I've got this thing here it

01:15:42   is a file or it's a shortcut on my desk so many things I could do to a file

01:15:48   right right and so I mean in that from the desktop especially right and before

01:15:53   contextual menus it would be like well you had this one gesture that Apple

01:15:59   popularized drag-and-drop but you only got one thing out of that it was you

01:16:04   know typically you drag it over and it would open you know you would drag this

01:16:07   thing to a file or to an application and it would open. And I know that there are certain

01:16:13   gestures like a Mac, I don't, I can't speak in Windows. And there were ways to modify

01:16:17   drag and drop with modifier keys where if you drag and drop something with the option

01:16:22   key down in the finder, you're making a copy.

01:16:25   Jared Ranerelle>> It's a copy and alias. So if you have the service, you can do a symbolic

01:16:29   link.

01:16:30   Pete Turner>> But number one, I mean, but that's way out in the weeds and very few users

01:16:33   are ever going to know about any of those shortcuts because they're not visual. You

01:16:37   to know about them. And there's, you know, there's a little visual cue when you hold

01:16:41   the option key down, drag something where it adds a plus sign to sort of at least give

01:16:45   you a little bit of a visual hint that maybe, you know, that you're making a copy or adding.

01:16:50   But you know, I mean, show that to most people and they're not going to have any idea what

01:16:53   the plus sign means. And they're never going to guess that holding the option, anything

01:16:57   that involves modifier keys is not going to, it just goes right over even smart people's

01:17:03   head because it's not, you have to know it before you'll ever use it. And you have to

01:17:06   remember it and that's that's a and you know it's well i mean think about you go

01:17:11   to somebody's house and you want it like your house sitting and you want to find

01:17:13   the scissors

01:17:14   yeah like there's nothing that would tell you where the scissors are until

01:17:17   you open a bunch of drawers and try stuff

01:17:19   yeah exactly that's exactly that's a really good analogy

01:17:22   here's another one and in in itunes 11 the new mini player thing is a new

01:17:27   button up in the up in the title bar that that toggles between these two

01:17:32   states for all previous 10 versions what they did is override the green button

01:17:36   And instead of zooming the window, it would toggle between the two states.

01:17:42   What most people don't know is if you option clicked the plus button, it would give you

01:17:48   the traditional green button behavior.

01:17:50   And I –

01:17:51   Jared: Really?

01:17:52   I never knew that.

01:17:53   Steven.

01:17:54   Yeah.

01:17:55   See, I tweeted that yesterday and I got like a gazillion like, "Holy cow, I didn't

01:17:57   know that."

01:17:58   Jared.

01:17:59   I would never in a million years think to do that.

01:18:00   Steven.

01:18:01   And why did you not teach me that before the version of iTunes came out that it doesn't

01:18:05   anymore. It's just one of those things if you're, you know, if you think Mackie enough,

01:18:11   you'd think like, well, if they overrid that, wouldn't they maybe give you an escape hatch

01:18:15   with a modifier key? But modifier keys, like you said, you I mean, you just said you didn't

01:18:19   even know that existed. Well, modifier keys, not a good solution to the problem. So Windows

01:18:25   contextual menus solved that problem in a certain sense of give me a way to do. Here's

01:18:31   the thing. I have it in front of me. Let me – give me a whole bunch of lists of things

01:18:35   I can do to this thing right now." But in another sense, it wasn't – still wasn't

01:18:42   visual though, because you had to know the difference between right-clicking and left-clicking,

01:18:47   which, you know, is like one of the most like divisive arguments in the history of user

01:18:55   interface design.

01:18:56   One is, "Let's do something," and the other one is, "Let's find out what we

01:18:59   could do."

01:19:00   Right.

01:19:01   And my argument against it, and that Apple was right with the one-button mouse for all

01:19:05   these years, is that whenever I worked in an office environment, you could go and you

01:19:09   look at everybody's mouse, if they had PCs, and the left mouse button was filthy, and

01:19:15   the right mouse button—or actually, I guess it was the other way around, where the left

01:19:18   one was clean.

01:19:19   Well, the left one might be dirty, but it had a finger-sized hole.

01:19:23   Shiny, yeah.

01:19:24   Like, shiny.

01:19:25   one was just covered with dust and that people learned that that's the one you don't click.

01:19:30   And that kind of shows you how Apple really did win.

01:19:33   Right. That normal people still never used those things. It is a great power user future,

01:19:40   and that's why Apple eventually – and I do think you're right that when Apple added

01:19:45   contextual menus with the control click, that it was sort of begrudging. But it's definitely

01:19:50   a power user feature because it's not visual and that's why you see things I think in iTunes

01:19:55   now with this thing where they've got this secondary in a way it is totally ungraceful

01:20:02   and inelegant that there are two entirely different contextual menus for let's say a

01:20:06   song or an album there's the old one that you get with the control click or right click

01:20:11   whatever you want to call it and this new one where you just regular click on the Chevron

01:20:15   button and that it's two, you know, entirely different lists of things and one's a lot simpler,

01:20:22   one's a little bit more fiddly, very inelegant. But it is to me, though, the new way where it's

01:20:28   visual and you can at least see how to make it come up. Well, I totally agree. But I mean,

01:20:36   I'd like to be even even kinder, I think, and I think fairly so. If you think about iOS, one of

01:20:44   One of the things that Apple, I think, has gotten so right with iOS that others...I can't

01:20:50   say if others have, I haven't spent much time on anything but an iPad or an iPhone, but

01:20:54   you know, is that I understand that there are a limited number of things that I can

01:20:58   do here and that there should be a limited number of things that I present to people

01:21:03   here, otherwise it's going to be completely overwhelming.

01:21:06   And so, I don't want to disclose, Chef Ramon, but whatever you call it, like go to the next

01:21:11   level of stuff.

01:21:12   The only way you can really do stuff, I'm pulling this out of my ass a little, but you

01:21:16   can either, I'm not Neven Merkin, I can't tell you what the names of the views are,

01:21:20   but you could certainly have a kind of view where you get a list of stuff and then you

01:21:24   can select things and do things to those.

01:21:27   But more often than not, you're clicking that "write disclose" button to drill down

01:21:31   into where you can do different sorts of things.

01:21:34   Now why is that so special and different?

01:21:36   because there's not really menus in the traditional sense on your iOS device.

01:21:43   You don't have a, like in this case, file edit, view control, store, and window.

01:21:47   That might be presented in some kind of tab way, but that's usually like the last thing

01:21:52   I would want to do.

01:21:53   And there are certainly far edge cases.

01:21:55   I don't know if you use GoodReader.

01:21:57   GoodReader is so nerdy but so fun.

01:21:59   You can go in and look at your files on Dropbox and you can go to the file management section,

01:22:04   file and say, "Whaaat?" There's like 40 options. It's so like, you know, like an engineer

01:22:08   made it, right? You can open in, you can zip this, you can move this, you can do all that

01:22:12   stuff. It gets you to the point though, saying like only a power user would want that, because

01:22:16   most people don't know of or need most of those things, and for better or for worse,

01:22:21   the iOS is accommodating those limitations in the design principles. So, I mean, the

01:22:28   thing is, I guess what I'm trying to get at is that in seeing these changes reflected,

01:22:32   or these design decisions reflected back into OS X.

01:22:35   I wonder if for a new person, you just come in here and go,

01:22:38   I understand there's stuff,

01:22:40   and the stuff is in different areas,

01:22:43   and once I get there and I get to the actual stuff,

01:22:45   there's almost always something I can do to it.

01:22:48   And if I get used to the idea that clicking on that chevron

01:22:51   always means that I can do things, then that's great.

01:22:53   My gut is that most power users

01:22:55   are never gonna click on those things.

01:22:56   They're gonna see that arrow.

01:22:58   Like you're pretty good with computers,

01:23:00   you didn't know about viewing in Playlist. Which tells me you did not spend a lot of

01:23:05   time left clicking and, or you know, I just get these backwards because I use this trackpad

01:23:11   and you know, caps lock.

01:23:13   That's why I still call it control clicking.

01:23:14   Yeah, control clicking. For me it's caps lock clicking. But you know what I'm saying? Like

01:23:20   for most people, I think that the danger, not the danger, the thing that's a little

01:23:24   confusing about this is yes, it's a new design. We always, we should always be open to a new

01:23:28   design being better because this is a group or a company that by and large we trust to

01:23:33   make interesting and good design decisions. But there's a lot about it that, yes, there's

01:23:38   absolute, like I'm just right now, there's a lot of stuff you don't see until you mouse

01:23:41   over it. And then when you do mouse over it, you're like, "What?" Like I mouse over a song.

01:23:45   I now have exactly the same chevron for a song as I do for the album. So what does that

01:23:50   mean? Well, I'll just click and find out. I've also got these four tiny little dots.

01:23:54   What is that? Well, I know that's for I want to rate this.

01:23:57   Right, I don't know if everybody's gonna know that the truth is though. I don't think most people are gonna use any of that

01:24:02   Really, do you write your songs? Do you write your songs? I?

01:24:05   Used to I would I wish we had another two hours because I have so much great iTunes tip stuff to share

01:24:12   But I I'm not big on ratings. I am big on metadata and I use the

01:24:18   Boy, I hope John Sir Q Center ever hears this

01:24:22   I rely heavily on the implicit metadata of what exists in the songs and what it has learned from my behavior

01:24:28   So I would much rather count on I would much rather use skip count

01:24:32   Yeah, and number of plays to make a playlist then I would buy is this two and a half to four and a half stars

01:24:39   Yeah, exactly. I wanted to show me you know, you know, it's it's just like good user testing, right?

01:24:43   It's like yeah, you should tell us the symptoms of how you use this

01:24:47   but we're more interested in the signs of what your behavior shows.

01:24:50   I almost trust iTunes to star my songs more than myself. And there are a few. There's

01:24:56   obviously, you know, it's like Raging Bull. Raging Bull is obviously one of the greatest

01:25:03   movies ever made, one of my favorites. But you just can't watch it that often. It's

01:25:06   just too much, right? It takes a lot out of me to watch Raging Bull. So my play count

01:25:11   on Raging Bull as a movie is going to be a lot lower than the stars I would assign to

01:25:15   it because I just can't take it. It's just—

01:25:17   I love a band called God Speed You Black Emperor, which is this band from Canada that makes

01:25:22   these wonderful, very long, orchestral atmosphere. Did you ever see 28 Days Later?

01:25:27   Yes.

01:25:28   Do you remember when the guy wakes up and he starts walking through the streets and

01:25:31   you hear that very memorable cello, like, "Wah-wah-wah"? That's God Speed You Black

01:25:35   Emperor. That's five-star music that I do not want to hear 16 minutes at a time. So

01:25:41   The skip count on that is kind of high.

01:25:43   But you can hack this easily by--

01:25:46   and I don't want to derail this, but I do have a lot on this--

01:25:48   is the way that I do playlists I think is pretty smart.

01:25:52   I do it very heavily upon building the--

01:25:55   I have a whole bunch of iCloud-related smart playlists

01:25:57   that I love to share with people because I think

01:25:59   they could be a lifesaver.

01:26:00   But then I do it very heavily based

01:26:02   upon the number of times--

01:26:03   the ratings, I mean, what are ratings?

01:26:04   Do you have time to sit and rate everything?

01:26:06   And what does that rating mean?

01:26:07   It's not that much better than what

01:26:09   you get on the iTunes store.

01:26:11   Well, it's good for what? The Gen-- I gotta tell ya, did Genius break for you after iTunes

01:26:16   Match initially? When I first got on iTunes Match, Genius stopped working on my Mac. I

01:26:23   guess it was-- there wasn't enough on the computer for it to work.

01:26:26   Yeah, I don't know, it got flaky for a while.

01:26:28   But it definitely started working, even in 10-- I guess, whatever, it's the last iTunes,

01:26:32   it worked-- it did start working again, and it was a revelation. I don't know how the

01:26:36   hell it does it. It's crazy, all we've learned from collaborative filtering. It works pretty

01:26:40   great. And I'll tell you, the Genius playlists are frequently way better than anything I

01:26:45   would have come up with on my own.

01:26:46   Yeah, I agree with that. But I also think that's exactly why I think I trust iTunes

01:26:51   to rate my songs for me.

01:26:52   Well, you know, just as a—

01:26:54   And then let me override it, you know.

01:26:56   I'll tell you what's a super-duper rat hole that still drives me crazy. Why doesn't

01:27:00   iOS know which apps I use the most? Why is there not an automatic smart folder for the

01:27:05   apps that I use the most? Don't you think there should be a smart folder, I know

01:27:10   this doesn't exist, but shouldn't there be a smart folder automatically populated

01:27:14   in your dock with the five apps you use the most?

01:27:16   I'm sorry, nine apps you use the most? I definitely think so. I think, I think, I

01:27:22   don't think that the the visual presentation of, as they call it,

01:27:26   springboard is in any way problematic. I know a lot of nerds want to put widgets

01:27:30   and have all sorts of fancy stuff. I think this idea that the baseline of the iOS universe

01:27:37   is a desktop, you get to pick the background and then it's just an organized list of your

01:27:42   apps is the right concept. I think the problem with Springboard is the lack of organization

01:27:48   features. You know, like moving apps around in that thing makes me feel like I've got

01:27:52   a job in the...

01:27:53   Well, and if you've done it right, and like in my case, I'm sorry to say that I have more

01:27:58   apps than can be shown.

01:27:59   on. And so what do I do? I joked about this not long ago. I'll go to a page with a bunch

01:28:05   of crappy apps I don't use, and it takes so long to delete.

01:28:08   Steven: At least when you do it through iTunes, when you connect the device in iTunes, you

01:28:12   can select more than one app at a time and move more than one app.

01:28:14   Chuck: And it's not two clicks. It's not all those extra clicks. But what I'll do is I'll

01:28:18   create a – I'll drop one on top of the other, and it'll say, "Do you want to create

01:28:22   a folder called Productivity?" I know. No, it's called Blorp37. And so I just drop, drop,

01:28:27   chop chop chop chop. I guess nine apps or whatever it'll take. But I mean that

01:28:32   that is it becomes so time-consuming and then what's crazy making is if there is

01:28:35   an app in there that I use once a year and I do the search you know the go left

01:28:39   and do the search I wish you could say show in folder or show on page hmm you

01:28:47   know what yeah I know you know I know exactly what you mean though cuz I am

01:28:50   organized and I have organized everything into folders well then the

01:28:53   folders lose their taxonomical significance if I don't have a way to

01:28:57   to find out its siblings at the same time.

01:29:00   No, the thing you just described I run into all the time, where there's a certain app

01:29:04   I realize I want to use. One of them, like for example, Speed Test, where you can—

01:29:10   You might have one called Internet Utilities, for example, with Speed Test in it.

01:29:13   Right. And I often, you know, when I get like a new device from Apple to, you know, like

01:29:18   the new iPad Mini comes out and I want to test to see, "Hey, is the LTE speed just

01:29:24   as fast as the iPhone? Am I getting different speeds or something like that?" So now I

01:29:27   I haven't used speed test in a while, but I want to use it.

01:29:29   And I think, you know, I use this thing enough that I should move it up to a more prominent

01:29:34   screen, but I'll search for it on that search screen, and then I want to know where the

01:29:38   hell it is.

01:29:39   I don't know where speed test is on my phone.

01:29:40   I have no idea.

01:29:41   Steven: And it hopefully tells you that it's in a folder called travel.

01:29:43   I don't – I have no idea where it is.

01:29:46   So I'll just – what I'll do is I'll just launch it from the search page and give

01:29:50   up on knowing where the hell it is.

01:29:52   What I would ask right now is that they added something in 6 that's cool, which is when

01:29:57   you search, if you have done the, you know, it's pretty cool Disney magic that if you

01:30:01   put two similar apps, if you drop an app on a similar app, it's pretty cool that those,

01:30:05   notice that those are both music apps or travel apps.

01:30:07   That's pretty cool.

01:30:08   It's done that ever since they've had the folders feature.

01:30:10   Yeah, yeah, but I mean, I was going to say that it's nice that it's always been cool

01:30:13   that it guesses that well, but what would be nice, and this is probably a nerd thing,

01:30:16   but when you do that search for speed test, what do you call that thing, the search page,

01:30:21   whatever you do.

01:30:22   Yeah.

01:30:23   They call it Spotlight?

01:30:24   They might call it Spotlight.

01:30:25   Spotlight.

01:30:26   Did you notice that it now shows you the name of the folder when it finds it?

01:30:28   No, I didn't know that.

01:30:29   So, if you search for something, it shows you the name of the folder.

01:30:32   Now, obviously, the next…

01:30:33   It doesn't tell you what home screen it's on, though.

01:30:35   I want to know like it's on home screen 8.

01:30:37   Well, I wish there was just a disclose button that would…or a, you know, an "i."

01:30:41   Right.

01:30:42   Or just show me.

01:30:43   Show it to me.

01:30:44   Yeah.

01:30:45   But, you know, this is the one funny thing.

01:30:47   I'm sure we don't have time to get into this, but I want to at least put a stake in

01:30:49   the ground.

01:30:50   There's so much stuff, like it's one thing to say,

01:30:53   "Okay, I want a playlist of these songs that I like,"

01:30:57   or, "I wanna make a mix tape for somebody,"

01:30:58   as we used to say, but there is so much power

01:31:01   in smart playlists that most people have no idea about,

01:31:05   and they are absolutely indispensable

01:31:07   if you're using iTunes Match.

01:31:09   Like, I have so many of these that I rely on,

01:31:12   and one of them is, here is all stuff

01:31:14   that I know is copacetic in the cloud, right?

01:31:19   Everything that's matched or purchased

01:31:20   that matches any of these three criteria.

01:31:23   That first of all is fantastic,

01:31:25   'cause you can see how much of your stuff is up there.

01:31:28   I have one for problems.

01:31:30   Show me any one where it is deleted,

01:31:33   or problem, or whatever it is.

01:31:37   But you know what I've got?

01:31:38   I've got one that I swear by.

01:31:40   This is a little Byzantine.

01:31:42   But I take that is this safe in the cloud list,

01:31:47   and I use that as the basis for,

01:31:49   me everything that's in my safe in the cloud list that's larger than 15 megs and sort by size.

01:31:56   So if I'm running out of space, I know that I can very quickly clear up three gigs by

01:32:01   deleting everything in here without actually losing it forever. And on my MacBook Air,

01:32:07   that's indispensable. I mean, I fill that thing up fast. If I put some HD movies on there,

01:32:12   or I forgot I pre-bought Brave, and the Brave plus special features is going to be like 8 gigs or

01:32:19   whatever. Things like that. But then you can also get into these wonderful things where you can mix

01:32:24   those lists. This should be a separate show, I'm sorry. But if you come up with lists that work for

01:32:28   you, like, you know, "Show me everything that I've listened to more than 10 times that's not in

01:32:32   children's music or holiday music or any of this array and has fewer than five skip counts." Wow,

01:32:38   that's actually a pretty great list. Doesn't matter what rating you gave it. You're going

01:32:41   going to hear songs that you like. So if you can combine those together, you come up with

01:32:46   these fantastic on-the-go lists for iOS. And that stuff is all still in here. I don't

01:32:51   think it's super obvious how to use all that. A lot of people don't know that you

01:32:54   can make like sub-list entries inside of smart playlists. You know what I mean?

01:32:58   Yeah.

01:32:59   Where you can have like arrays and arrays or whatever.

01:33:00   Right.

01:33:01   But you like it.

01:33:04   I do. Hey, let me tell you about the second sponsor.

01:33:06   I got to tell you.

01:33:09   Repeat sponsor and repeat sponsors make me so happy because it makes me feel like they're

01:33:13   part of the talk show family.

01:33:15   So our friends at Global Delight and their app, it's a brand new version of their great

01:33:19   app Camera Plus Pro.

01:33:22   Camera Plus Pro, a little bit of a tongue twister, is a powerful yet simple camera app

01:33:28   and it's a photo editing app.

01:33:29   So it lets you shoot, edit and share beautiful photos and videos from your iPhone and your

01:33:34   iPhone 5, your iPod touch or even your iPad.

01:33:38   love to shoot their stuff on their iPad.

01:33:41   It's a great, it's a favorite of iPhone photographers.

01:33:46   It has incredible features.

01:33:49   My favorites are things like, it's got really good focus lock, exposure control, manual

01:33:55   white balance, you can change the white balance.

01:33:57   It has a good anti-shake feature to help steady photos when you're holding it in your hand.

01:34:04   A bunch of options for grid lines.

01:34:06   So you could turn on the rule of thirds, you could set on some other options for the gridlines.

01:34:10   You can turn on the mode, they call it big button mode, where the whole screen is the

01:34:14   shutter.

01:34:15   Right?

01:34:16   Ever have that problem with the built-in camera app where there's only like two pixels that

01:34:19   register as a shutter button?

01:34:20   You don't want to use, you don't want to, like if you use this inward-facing camera,

01:34:24   you can hit the button, but if you try and do it from the other side, it's a real, you

01:34:27   know what I'm talking about?

01:34:28   If you want to get a self-portrait?

01:34:29   Exactly.

01:34:30   Big button mode helps so much for that.

01:34:31   Right.

01:34:32   Because all you have to, if you feel glass, it's a shutter button.

01:34:35   uh...

01:34:36   they've also you know they've got the same thing that the photo app has

01:34:39   everybody has now you can use the volume button as a shutter you can also use the

01:34:43   volume button on a headphone if it's attached

01:34:45   so it's sort of like uh... over they call that uh... photography terms a

01:34:49   remote shutter button

01:34:51   really james bond i make you do that

01:34:53   uh...

01:34:54   on the video side now here's where they're really getting around where

01:34:57   these are some of the really advanced features they got down the video side

01:35:00   you can shoot videos with camera plus pro with real-time video filters

01:35:05   so you can get uh... and now you know and again i would say this i know people

01:35:08   are some people are against the filters some of the filters yeah a little bit

01:35:11   kitschy a little bit retro some of the filters are just you know really make it

01:35:15   look a little bit more like a movie in a more filmic i think some of the filters

01:35:18   are really great

01:35:20   but you can see them live i don't even know how they to me this is black magic

01:35:24   i don't i don't know how a little iphone

01:35:26   thinking can do live video filtering as you should but it works uh... that's the

01:35:31   thing that blew me away about these guys at Macworld last year is, I think it got them

01:35:36   the best to show at Macworld Expo is that they were, they had this app that did video

01:35:41   filters, you know, Instagram style, hipstagram style, whatever you want to call it, but live

01:35:46   as you shoot the video.

01:35:47   I had no idea that existed. I love this app and I had no idea that existed.

01:35:51   Yeah. It doesn't seem mathematically possible to me, but it works. Sharing, you could share

01:35:56   to Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, any place you'd want to send photos. They have a feature.

01:36:02   I don't know why anybody would ever want to use such a feature, but they have a feature

01:36:05   where you can have a private collection of photos within the app that's password protected.

01:36:09   I don't know. I mean, it seems like something somebody would want to use. I don't know.

01:36:13   Yeah, it's a sensitive government data.

01:36:15   Exactly.

01:36:16   That's a good idea.

01:36:17   But I use it. I like it. It's got some great, you know, and it's, you know, a whole bunch

01:36:22   of filters that you can use. One of my other favorite things about their filters is that

01:36:25   when you apply a filter to a photo, uh, they have a little slider that just lets you adjust

01:36:30   the filter strength. So if you say, give it the bleach bypass filter and it really has

01:36:37   this sort of absurdly strong, um, filter look to it. If you think that's too much, you

01:36:42   can just slide that down a little bit and just put it like 30% or something like that.

01:36:46   And it just gives it a hint of that look, which I think is just a great feature. It

01:36:51   really really helps sort of let you feel like you're in control of it like a real app like

01:36:57   Lightroom or something like that on your Mac. Here's how do you get it? I know that's what

01:37:03   you're wondering. Did you ever hear of the website bit.ly?

01:37:05   I know about bit.ly.

01:37:07   B-I-T dot L-Y. Right. So here's what you do. You go to bit.ly, bit.ly/buycppro. So that's

01:37:17   B U Y like buy as in purchase B U Y C P P R O buy C P pro that'll let them track it

01:37:29   you don't know that you're coming from the talk show that's the idea behind the

01:37:32   bitly URL they can say wow look at all these people coming from the talk show how much

01:37:37   does it cost cost a buck ninety nine one two bucks that's going to get a great app camera

01:37:43   Plus Pro when you Google for it comes up number one number one before you could

01:37:48   Google for it as Google sponsor we love to mention them they have their big

01:37:53   supporters of the show I have I have Wow I I this Wow I guess I I thought I was

01:37:58   using this most recent version but oh my god this is amazing

01:38:01   what a beautiful app and they were one of the first they were one of the first

01:38:05   were when camera plus came out everybody was like wait a minute you can do this

01:38:10   You're the best.

01:38:12   Yep.

01:38:13   So, what else is going on?

01:38:16   Is that, you know, we're going long, we should get the hell off.

01:38:19   We should have a show, John.

01:38:21   I know you wouldn't want to do that probably, but we should have a show.

01:38:24   This is ridiculous.

01:38:25   Well, we have some stuff to talk about.

01:38:28   Really?

01:38:30   We need to talk?

01:38:31   Oh, no, I mean we have shared interests that we can expound upon.

01:38:34   We have so many shared interests.

01:38:35   We could help so many people.

01:38:36   In an enthusiastic and entertaining and engaging manner.

01:38:39   That's what I meant.

01:38:40   I did not mean that you and I have some shit to talk about.

01:38:45   I know you're the one sending that stuff to my wife.

01:38:47   Look, I told you I was going to take care of your investment.

01:38:53   Listen, the market is subject to volatility.

01:38:57   I'm not a magician.

01:39:00   We could talk more.

01:39:01   We could talk about your Apple stuff.

01:39:03   I never told you.

01:39:04   You could never lose it.

01:39:06   For government, federal something something, this is probably run long, right?

01:39:11   A little bit, but maybe there's some stuff we could cut.

01:39:15   We could keep going.

01:39:16   You want to talk about Apple News?

01:39:17   Can I tell people one more thing?

01:39:18   Yeah, what do you have to talk about?

01:39:20   I feel like you have some stuff.

01:39:21   What do you want to say?

01:39:22   Well, I'm going to mention one more slightly iTunes-related thing.

01:39:24   Now, I am a reformed, retired, adjunct productivity guy of some renown, I must say, and for years,

01:39:34   One of the--I use this as an example. I always use notebooks as a great example of productivity

01:39:38   porn and the idea that if you focus too much on the notebook, you won't do your stuff.

01:39:42   The example in terms of like stuff I do--and I mention that because I'm a notebook nerd.

01:39:46   Like I love field notes. I love all these notes. The other one for me is metadata. I

01:39:50   am so pointlessly obsessed with correct metadata and things and it drives me bananas. And for

01:39:57   a long time, there were various other--various different ways to use this. But I just want

01:40:00   to make people aware of something that's really cool and it's free. I think it's free. Music

01:40:04   brains. M-U-S-I-C-B-R-A-I-N-Z. I believe it's musicbrains.org, but if you google

01:40:10   music brains you will find it. It has the most exhaustive set of metadata about

01:40:15   anything I've ever seen. You might want to go to shot just for fun. So here's the neat

01:40:19   part though. A, you go in and search Music Brains for Tom Petty. It's gonna say, "Okay,

01:40:24   here's Tom Petty." You click on Tom Petty. It says, "Okay, show me down the torpedoes."

01:40:27   Okay, here's those torpedoes. Wait a minute. You're telling me that there's a, what would

01:40:31   be 1980? There's like old like whatever it came out. 1980, a version on this label that's

01:40:40   an LP, but there's also a version that came out later on with bonus tracks on a CD, and

01:40:44   there's also an adver--like doesn't it drive you crazy when you have to--when you want

01:40:48   to get the metadata right on stuff, but there's like four extra tracks and it--your iTunes

01:40:53   gets confused? Well this is--all that stuff is in there, which is amazing, but here's

01:40:57   the beauty part. You can download this app called, I think it's called Music Brains Picard,

01:41:02   like Professor X, Picard. And you get this thing.

01:41:05   John Luke.

01:41:06   John Luke. And you drag tracks into this, and it applies all that metadata to your tracks

01:41:12   for you, down to renaming the files.

01:41:15   How do you get that?

01:41:16   You just go to a good search for Music Brains Picard. And it's not the prettiest. It's kind

01:41:21   of swing looking, kind of, you know, Python-y looking, but it works well. And you go in

01:41:27   and say, you just throw a big bunch of stuff in there. I think it's better to start out

01:41:31   like, just to get your legs under you, put it like, grab, there's some album where you've

01:41:35   got, okay, you, throw Nightmare on Elm Street, whatever that Stones record is you like, throw

01:41:41   that in there, and then tell it, everything in this group make this the costly re-released

01:41:48   edition from a couple years ago and it'll say, "Okay, got it all. Boom." It gives the correct

01:41:52   stuff. It enters in the Composer data. It'll do like everything that it can and then it makes

01:41:57   your iTunes so much more fun to use. It sounds crazy, but if you get stuff, and it'll improve

01:42:02   stuff like your stuff you bought from Apple too. It'll add better stuff to that. Anyway,

01:42:08   it organizes better. It makes your playlist better. It drives me nuts.

01:42:11   Will it help with album art for missing album art?

01:42:16   I think it will help in the sense... I'm trying to remember if you can get album art for it.

01:42:20   I know there are other apps that do that. There used to be one called MP3... what's

01:42:26   the one I used to use? But there's always been little apps like this. If nothing else,

01:42:31   it'll make sure that it has normalized, as John Sircusa says, normalized metadata that'll

01:42:36   be correct and help you find, hopefully, the right one. I have a comics app that does that.

01:42:41   But I guess what I'm kind of getting at is like two things.

01:42:44   Well, first of all, we have so much stuff now that labeling stuff incorrectly has a

01:42:50   cost to it, even if it's silly stuff like music.

01:42:53   'Cause stuff like duplicates.

01:42:54   'Cause you can send more than one version to iTunes Match, as I have learned.

01:42:59   As I clicked around yesterday looking for screenshots and stuff, I realized just how

01:43:03   many duplicates I have.

01:43:04   And display duplicates and display exact duplicates is only so helpful.

01:43:07   And then A, first of all, it doesn't work all that great, and B, it doesn't automatically

01:43:11   pick what to get rid of. Well, if you find the correct version and prefer this certain

01:43:15   bit rate and so forth, it gets a lot easier to do that. And I actually have an app that

01:43:19   I like that will help with that a lot. I have one of those for iPhoto that I like a lot.

01:43:23   But first of all, yes, A, there's a cost to not having this correct because, you know,

01:43:28   example case, B, I'm on iOS and suddenly I have four different artists called Electric

01:43:34   Light Orchestra, which makes it really annoying. Well, I happen to like ELO. But you know what

01:43:39   saying? Like you go in there and your stuff isn't all in the same place, so you can't

01:43:42   make lists as easily. You're going to have to go back to your computer and fix all of

01:43:46   that. Some people on iOS, you know, maybe don't even have that option. But we do, if

01:43:50   we're OS X users. And this is a great one. So Picard. It's one of my picks. Pick of the

01:43:54   week. You strike me as somebody who's probably not a big metadata guy. You don't spend a

01:44:00   morning on that.

01:44:01   I can get into it.

01:44:04   For the stuff that matters to you, it's great. Like, I redid all of my New Order stuff. And

01:44:09   fixed up all my new order stuff, made sure the tracks come from the right thing, and

01:44:13   instead of me having to sit there and search 10 sites to find which of these five versions

01:44:16   of Ceremony this is, it'll do it for you. And it's pretty terrific. It can also do an

01:44:22   acoustic fingerprint. It'll look at, if it doesn't, if you have no idea what the track

01:44:25   is, you throw in your unknown, whatever that, you know, that one giant folder you have called

01:44:31   Unknown Source or whatever, it can, it'll take a shot, take a swag at doing an acoustic

01:44:37   footprint to figure out what it is. And so as more of your, let's say, 128k+ stuff

01:44:43   makes its way into the iTunes ecosystem, this will benefit you. Even just

01:44:48   take your--here you go--make a smart playlist of your most played albums and just even

01:44:52   fix those. It might make your life better. So it's good. And someday I'll share my

01:44:57   smart playlist with you. Do you have those? Did you do smart playlists for iTunes

01:45:02   match? For iTunes match? Like I was really scared to throw stuff away until I was

01:45:10   really, you know what I mean? I was, I knew that I didn't have to have a 65 gig iTunes

01:45:14   library on every machine anymore. Oh, I see what you mean. And I wanted to, I wanted to have

01:45:19   the confidence to delete stuff, especially with movies, dude. I mean, I had it set to

01:45:25   automatically download. Like I say, with Brave, I mean Brave was big. You know, that's one of

01:45:31   the things that to me is unheralded about the new iTunes 11 is that now, or under-heralded

01:45:37   at least, is that they've finally, they've more or less done the same thing now with

01:45:40   movies and TV shows as they did with music, where if you bought it from Apple, you could

01:45:45   just delete it from your computer and it still shows up and it's just like, you know, it's

01:45:49   in the class.

01:45:50   Jared: Yes. Oh, but you know the other thing they added, but I mean this actually supports

01:45:54   I think rather than refutes that, did you see you now have an overall tick box for don't

01:46:01   show, you know, like for example on iOS you can go in and say, "Only show local music.

01:46:08   Don't show iCloud music that's not on this device." You can do that now in iTunes also

01:46:12   without a smart playlist, which is huge if you're on vacation.

01:46:16   Steven: Right. Because you're not, don't tease me with the shit I can't play.

01:46:19   Jared; Well, here's the thing. B, when you're on vacation, you won't find out you don't

01:46:24   have it. But A, if you're not on vacation yet, you might want to go in and be sure you've

01:46:28   got everything you want on there.

01:46:29   Steven; Right.

01:46:30   That's a nice one. I mean, that's a nice feature because not everybody's going to

01:46:33   care about that or need that. You know, it's – we always have to think about the people

01:46:37   who are the new customers. Where is that growth coming from? Well, you know, there's not

01:46:41   that many people. Certainly there are nerds. They're going to buy five iPads and seven

01:46:45   iPhones. But clearly this growth is among people who have not been in the Apple ecosystem

01:46:49   before.

01:46:50   Right. Well, and I think it gets back – it gets back to one of my old refrains, which

01:46:55   is that it's really almost everything is hard if it wasn't part of the original idea.

01:47:01   And the whole cloud thing was not part of the original idea with iTunes, and it really

01:47:04   felt it with all the other previous versions.

01:47:07   Whereas this new redesign really was – and you know, part of it you can be completely

01:47:12   cynical about, which is that it's also very largely about getting you to buy more stuff

01:47:16   from the store.

01:47:17   But it – you know, just starting from the blank whiteboard when they started designing

01:47:23   what this new one was going to look like. They clearly had that a lot of this stuff,

01:47:28   the canonical store for it is our servers and iCloud, wherever the hell they are, as

01:47:35   opposed to the old iTunes, where the cloud stuff really was both effectively and visually

01:47:41   sort of tacked on.

01:47:43   Now, I think you're right. Gosh, the completely unexpected part of all this for me is Apple

01:47:50   TV which I treated as as much of a hobby as Apple did for a long time but when I

01:47:55   got the I have the 720p the second latest one right

01:47:59   I know I same here I it is unbelievable

01:48:02   I say I did a whole couple podcasts about this about how I moved away from

01:48:07   my old system having a Mac mini and a Drobo to do everything

01:48:10   I still got them around but it's crazy how little I miss having a dedicated

01:48:15   large storage device

01:48:18   Do you know what I mean? I mean, yes, absolutely. I am...

01:48:21   You know what? I was drinking the other night and bought a copy of Phantasm.

01:48:23   You ever seen Phantasm?

01:48:25   It rings a bell.

01:48:27   Remember that scary commercial, and there's that orb, like there's a mausoleum,

01:48:31   and you see the orb with the little... you can google it, yeah,

01:48:35   the orb with the spike coming out of it that goes into the guy's head and pulls all these blood spurts out?

01:48:39   It's this great low-budget horror film from 1979, and I just grabbed it.

01:48:42   And then it was on my iPad in a few minutes.

01:48:44   that they have created, starting with the early days of the iTunes store and being able

01:48:49   to buy, I mean, to me, now that pattern has become so ingrained that it competes very

01:48:54   heavily with the preexisting habit of just going and getting it off the back of a truck.

01:48:59   I feel great being legit with it, but it's also just more convenient. Knowing that this

01:49:04   is not going to have hard-coded Dutch subs, whatever those are, but this will be, like,

01:49:08   a good version of this that I can get from anywhere.

01:49:10   Right.

01:49:11   You know, the best copy of The Avengers that I've got is the one that I paid for, and that's,

01:49:14   I think that's really, that's a good thing. Has that happened for you? I mean, it seems

01:49:19   like this must have been big for you guys too, especially You Got a Kid 2.

01:49:23   Yeah, I wish we had more of our movies on iTunes than DVDs and stuff like that.

01:49:28   Maybe in the after dark I'll tell you about something called iFLIX. You want to play with

01:49:31   that?

01:49:32   I don't know.

01:49:33   Hmm, okay. I-F-L-I-C-K-S. Just say it.

01:49:37   I-F-L-I-X.

01:49:38   C-K-X.

01:49:39   C-K-X.

01:49:40   C-K-X.

01:49:41   metadata in place without having to re-encode. And if it's an MKV, whatever that is, it can

01:49:46   put a QuickTime wrapper around it that lets it run right in iTunes. It's a good thing.

01:49:53   Yeah, you know me. I get lost.

01:49:56   Yeah, I know you get confused. Yeah.

01:49:58   Oh, God, I get confused.

01:49:59   I got to show you my bookmark. Let's... What? I'll just never forget this one night. I tried

01:50:05   to show... Well, I don't know. You and Simpson were definitely there, and I was really excited

01:50:10   about showing you this one bookmarklet. And I remember, like, I never felt like a bigger

01:50:15   nerd than when you two guys were not interested in anything I had on my phone. And you were

01:50:20   seriously, you were like, I was like the kid who was like, "Hey, Spike, what about my

01:50:24   boss, Spike? Hey, Spike." You guys just walked away.

01:50:28   Darrell Bock I do remember that. I actually, oddly, have

01:50:31   a very vivid memory of that. I believe somehow we had either gotten kicked out of or had

01:50:35   had somehow decided that it was a bad scene at House of Shields, and we were going to

01:50:39   Rickenbacker's, right?

01:50:40   Jared: It might have been. There's been several times.

01:50:42   Pete: And so, you decided to spend like the three-walk, there's like a three-block walk

01:50:46   between the two bars.

01:50:47   Jared; We're not going to catch up and talk about our lives now.

01:50:50   Pete; You decided to explain quicks. I think it was quicks.

01:50:52   Jared; Yeah, it's quicks.

01:50:53   Pete; It's like this crazy command line.

01:50:55   Jared; Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

01:50:56   If I type in MDL, it returns a markdown link.

01:51:00   I've never met somebody so uninterested in the thing that they have made that changed

01:51:05   the world.

01:51:06   I'm trying to show you a bookmarklet on Montgomery Street, and you won't even look at it.

01:51:10   I do remember it was—

01:51:14   You guys literally turned your backs and walked away.

01:51:17   But I also remember, too, that we had previously all been on the same track.

01:51:21   We'd been having a good time, and then all of a sudden you took the B train and we took

01:51:24   the C train.

01:51:25   Oh, man. There's a reason I didn't get to sit at the lunch table with the cool kids.

01:51:30   Actually, there's probably about 30 reasons, but...

01:51:34   You feeling any better? You feeling any better having done this? Have you gotten your head

01:51:40   cleared out a little?

01:51:41   Of this cold?

01:51:42   Yeah, I just don't know. Maybe some time talking and talking about bourbon. You feel a little

01:51:46   better?

01:51:47   Yeah, absolutely. But I don't have that. See, that is my... You asked what my cold medicine

01:51:50   of choice is. My cold medicine of choice is bourbon. Because that's... You know what?

01:51:54   If you go and look at a lot of the medicines that are out there, you know what it is?

01:51:58   It's alcohol.

01:51:59   It's the…

01:52:00   Or worse still, it's something that used to be useful because it had alcohol, and now

01:52:04   they took it…it's like caffeine-free diet coke.

01:52:07   Like, I don't understand what you're drinking at that point.

01:52:10   You know, in this case, this used to be all about the liquor, and now it's just something

01:52:14   you buy in a pharmacy that's, you know, just some kind of a useless tincture.

01:52:17   Right.

01:52:18   What's the proof of NyQuil?

01:52:19   I guess whether you feel better.

01:52:21   Well, but what's?

01:52:23   Sorry, I don't know what the proof is a kitty Dukakis she was a rubbing alcohol lady, right?

01:52:35   What did she doing was it rubbing on the same rubbing out? I think it might have been yeah. Yeah, I think it was

01:52:42   That's a shame. I shouldn't I shouldn't joke. No, that's not funny. No, he lost the election. That's not funny

01:52:46   All right, that would have been pretty funny though. She'd been in the White House just

01:52:50   drinking out of flower pots and shit.

01:52:52   Hmm.

01:52:53   Ticacas? Hmm.

01:52:55   That's a bummer. It's a bummer that that becomes your file card. You know, like that becomes like your one fact.

01:53:01   Yeah.

01:53:01   Like, you know, David Carradine was gonna be remembered as the guy from that show where they couldn't get Bruce Lee, but that was pretty cool.

01:53:07   Yeah, pretty bad.

01:53:08   And then there's the auto-erotic desk guy.

01:53:09   He was a white guy who could do pretty cool karate and wasn't Chuck Norris.

01:53:13   He could pull off a nation.

01:53:15   Right.

01:53:15   Yeah.

01:53:16   And then, you know,

01:53:19   Things just went a little south one night. All right, that is true. Yeah, and there's some guys who can outlive it

01:53:25   You know, I mean like Elvis Elvis is a big enough guy where yeah, he died ignominiously

01:53:30   But that's just like an asterisk like a sad little ass

01:53:33   like Elvis and the Beatles were big enough that we can remember them in different ways like they even remember when the stamps came out and

01:53:39   Like should it be young Elvis or fat Elvis?

01:53:41   Like there's not that many people maybe Liz Taylor, but there aren't that many people

01:53:46   Apart from people like them in the Beatles where you get to go. Oh, yeah, there's the Paul McCartney from this time in that time

01:53:51   Elvis man

01:53:56   Yeah, but like David Carradine, he's a guy who's sort of that's a shame. Yeah. I love that show

01:54:01   1989 Dukakis was briefly hospitalized after drinking rubbing alcohol rubbing alcohol. That's that's rough. That is rough

01:54:10   I mean, I don't I can't think of any mixers that would make that a good thing for me

01:54:13   Yeah, I don't think there's anything at hop sing with that either you think hop sink is could they see they would get it like

01:54:18   an artis anal right alcohol artisanal

01:54:20   Hey, it would be alcohol do rubbing and it would be like like an absinthe that comes with a special spoon or something

01:54:27   And a very elaborate bottle

01:54:31   How about our our bar?

01:54:33   Yes, you can come in and get a cocktail with ice

01:54:35   Like the all the other little queer bait bars you come to ours. We're gonna give you a drink you literally rub into your skin

01:54:42   Come in a tank top tank tops welcome. We'll make you a poultice. We could make you

01:54:47   Like a heating pad you know with a with a daiquiri in it

01:54:51   It's bliss guy