00:00:00 ◼ ► I've got too many iPads. I've got way too many iPads. I don't just have too many iPads. I have too many iPad keyboards
00:00:25 ◼ ► Multiple iPads configured. Jason, how you doing? Doing great. How are you? I'm just combobulated honestly
00:00:43 ◼ ► Pandemic and supply chain related because you got to think this is not how they drew it up
00:00:47 ◼ ► I think that Apple took the iPad Pro and was like we can't update it right now and they just punted on that
00:00:53 ◼ ► Let's just stick an M2 in it and be done because they would probably rather introduce new features at the high end of the product
00:00:59 ◼ ► But they didn't and so we end up in in a weird situation where two features that I think
00:01:18 ◼ ► I think it's great that Apple has made those changes, but if you've got an iPad Air or an iPad Pro or want to buy
00:01:23 ◼ ► A new one that they're not there yet and maybe they'll be there in 18 months. I don't know. Yeah, it's sort of like we're starting
00:01:29 ◼ ► Starting with our conclusion, but I am in complete agreement where I think that if you want to make sense out of the
00:02:03 ◼ ► Significant reduction for obvious reasons over that time period and given the time frames that hardware gets developed on I don't think it's a stretch
00:02:16 ◼ ► The top priority of the company for obvious reasons. It's the most popular product. It makes the most money and
00:02:28 ◼ ► I thought I said iPad which is the opposite point. Anyway, iPhone is number one and iPhone has
00:02:43 ◼ ► arguably weeks late weeks behind which is just a phenomenal achievement for the company and
00:02:54 ◼ ► But I think that sort of why did the camera move on this iPad in a way that everybody wanted but didn't move on this
00:03:03 ◼ ► I have a little bit of a theory which is the theory of Apple's product cycles where they use the same enclosure for a few years
00:03:10 ◼ ► Right because you're not going to introduce people always forget this when this happens
00:03:13 ◼ ► But like Apple doesn't introduce a brand new industrial design for every device they introduce, right?
00:03:22 ◼ ► and I do think that part of having that strategy is that if you've got a product that you're targeting for let's say
00:03:36 ◼ ► You have a fallback which is we're going to rev the existing product another year and push that off a year, right?
00:03:43 ◼ ► So who's to say I mean maybe Mark Gurman knows or Ming Chi Kuo knows or somebody else might know but like who's to say?
00:03:54 ◼ ► Wasn't and I don't know this either. I'm just saying as an example was it originally targeted for 22?
00:04:00 ◼ ► And then in the midst of everything in 2020 and 21 at some point they said we can't make that at that point
00:04:12 ◼ ► It gives you the trapdoor and I look at the iPad Pro now and I think that's basically what they did is they've got clearly
00:04:26 ◼ ► and so instead we get the fourth go-round essentially of the same industrial design and
00:04:31 ◼ ► I think the display analyst Ross Young was saying that you can look for some OLED iPad pros in early
00:04:38 ◼ ► 24 so it's another 18 month wait for that. Yeah, I again I'm in complete agreement and I do think it's fascinating
00:04:52 ◼ ► Engineering schedule is one of the great untold stories of the company. I've always thought this I mean and
00:05:04 ◼ ► So I think it is the key it's why you and I have devoted our careers to covering the company
00:05:09 ◼ ► What's it to me? It's what makes them most interesting is that they're the one company that is
00:05:14 ◼ ► Like an optical illusion they do the hardware and the software and you can look at them and say they're a hardware company that does
00:05:24 ◼ ► Alan Kay axiom that if you really care about software you do your own hardware and at their best. It's truly 50/50 and it
00:05:31 ◼ ► Fears but as much as they are both very much both and you can look at them through either prism
00:05:40 ◼ ► The nature of hardware and software is such it that it's profoundly different so that you can do things like cut features
00:05:58 ◼ ► I think they got to 14.8 last year almost monthly closer to monthly and at least by monthly
00:06:04 ◼ ► Dot releases that tend to add these new features and they can adjust that plan on the fly
00:06:11 ◼ ► I don't think it was their plan all along for iPad OS not to ship until the end of October
00:06:17 ◼ ► I think I ideally it would have like previous years shipped at the same time iOS did for iPhones
00:06:28 ◼ ► You don't you can make you can bail out on something but nobody knows and it happened a year before or it's the whole thing
00:06:45 ◼ ► So we'll just put another sensor in there and it's like no you don't get to do that at the last minute
00:06:53 ◼ ► At the end of 2019 or January and February right before March of 2020 if the idea was for
00:07:27 ◼ ► I mean remember it was like I have we better you know, we're shut everything down for a couple of weeks
00:07:38 ◼ ► This is radical and like a four week five week shutdown of life as we know it to let this pass
00:08:04 ◼ ► But when they first sent the kids home from school the very first day, I think it was a Friday
00:08:19 ◼ ► I forget what class the teacher taught but it wasn't the science teacher which was interesting
00:08:24 ◼ ► But the teacher was saying how we'll see in a month and will be on zoom and the kids were all like thinking it through
00:08:30 ◼ ► And they were like yeah, we're not coming back this year, you know, and I forget how they thought about it
00:08:35 ◼ ► But they've kind of figured it out and their intuitive sense that no if it's bad enough to do this isn't going this isn't gonna
00:08:56 ◼ ► Overriding your your you've got your priors that you're taking into account that they don't have to take into account and say no
00:09:02 ◼ ► Why wouldn't it just take us out for the whole year? Yeah, and he talked me into it. I was like damn you're right
00:09:07 ◼ ► This is gonna this is gonna be longer and I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Cook sort of had that foresight and Jeff Williams and
00:09:19 ◼ ► Servitize our plans and make sure that we've got a 2022 iPhone and this that the other whatever products
00:09:32 ◼ ► Restricted in these ways so I wouldn't be surprised because that would have been and that timeline would work
00:09:37 ◼ ► Right, like I think and you could certainly and I don't have any information like that's just pure theory
00:09:46 ◼ ► planning because once you have that situation where you keep a piece of hardware and just do some basic updates and then you
00:10:01 ◼ ► All right, and I don't know whether they did that in the iPhone because they have done three year cycles before
00:10:11 ◼ ► Ideas where they're just like look not now is not the time and you end up with everything kind of out of sync like it is
00:10:19 ◼ ► There is the iMac right where it seems kind of weird that there's only the one iMac and that according to Mark Gurman
00:10:25 ◼ ► There's not even gonna be an m2 iMac and they're gonna just leave it for m3 and like that feels like another one of those
00:10:41 ◼ ► Some of that stuff got taken off the board because of kovat and not like we're not gonna do that product
00:10:48 ◼ ► And so when you look at these products individually, you're like, oh, that's a perfectly reasonable product the iPads
00:10:53 ◼ ► I'm talking about but then you look at the iPad as a product line and you go. Well, wait a second
00:10:58 ◼ ► Yeah, why I mean there are some weird choices in the individual products that I'm sure we're gonna talk about
00:11:05 ◼ ► It's like why over here and not over there and they're never gonna say but I suspect the answer is
00:11:16 ◼ ► My gut feeling is the iPad Pro definitely or not definitely but it would be the most likely to have suffered such a fate
00:11:22 ◼ ► These new iPad pros I kind of suspect that this year's iPhones probably are exactly as they were planned all along
00:11:29 ◼ ► and there are some you know, like the dynamic island and that the hole punch cut out the pros getting the a16 the
00:11:58 ◼ ► Core didn't even get a new chip, right? And I think strategically that's something they wanted. They've been moving towards
00:12:22 ◼ ► Occasionally seen something like this is like there are a lot of rumors out there about the next iPhone, right?
00:12:27 ◼ ► The iPhone 15 which is ridiculous you often last year. I think it actually lapped to the iPhone 14. Yeah 13
00:12:35 ◼ ► but it you know, and again, I'm not saying that it's gonna happen and I don't have any inside information, but like
00:12:47 ◼ ► Actually, the iPhone 15 isn't gonna have that periscope camera system and all of that and I would read that as being
00:12:56 ◼ ► That same kind of recalibration which is it's if you have an issue when you're like we can't do it in this time frame in
00:13:02 ◼ ► Your Apple when you're not gonna not do an iPhone. So the answer is gonna be what's the fallback? The fallback is another iteration of
00:13:22 ◼ ► So you gotta have a fallback and that's the nice thing about this approach of having the same body get reused for a few years
00:13:28 ◼ ► It's like the MacBook Air at m2 like it's taken care of there'll be an m3 MacBook Air almost certainly
00:13:41 ◼ ► It was so far ahead when it came out. That's fine. But it is for four cycles through now, I think so
00:13:52 ◼ ► Which was the same one that had the first retina MacBook Air, which was the MacBook Air
00:14:40 ◼ ► It backs up your documents your music your photos your videos drawings projects all of your data
00:14:50 ◼ ► Servers in the cloud off-site out of your facility out of your house now your backed up files are
00:15:01 ◼ ► You can just get like one file like if you're just out and about and you need to get one of your files from your phone
00:15:06 ◼ ► Just go to their app. You can get anything that's been backed up right from your phone. You want to restore you can do it
00:15:21 ◼ ► It's shorted out your MacBook gets stolen or lost or something terrible like that happens and you need
00:15:33 ◼ ► They'll send you like a flash key or a hard drive with all of your data shipped to your door next day delivery and
00:15:54 ◼ ► You get a full refund get your money back for the drive so you can get your data back the next morning
00:15:59 ◼ ► Send the drive back and it's just all part of the back play service it that's really just unbelievable
00:16:08 ◼ ► You can increase your retention history to an entire year so that you can recover files
00:16:26 ◼ ► You can do it for just two more bucks a month to get one year of retention history for your account
00:16:32 ◼ ► They have restored over 55 billion files over the years to their customers and you can get a full featured
00:16:49 ◼ ► They'll know you came from the show you get that free trial with no credit card required and it's just great
00:17:04 ◼ ► It's never like oh all of a sudden back plays is doing a backup and everything grinds to a halt on your machine
00:17:13 ◼ ► You never know. It's there. Hopefully you'll never need it. But man, you'll even sleep better knowing that your stuff's backed up
00:17:23 ◼ ► Alright, where do we start? Should we talk Apple TV first or save it? I mean, that's what everybody's talking about
00:17:29 ◼ ► Apple TV 4k, maybe we should talk about TV 4k first just this is knock it out of the park
00:17:36 ◼ ► I will say I'm actually very very happy with all but one aspect of this week's Apple TV hardware
00:17:45 ◼ ► They stopped selling the completely outdated ridiculous 1080 version which makes me wonder why they're still calling it Apple TV 4k
00:18:00 ◼ ► And then maybe by calling it Apple TV 4k it helps to differentiate it from Apple TV the service
00:18:09 ◼ ► So at least for this show I will refer to the hardware as Apple TV 4k and they got rid of the other ones right now
00:18:17 ◼ ► They're only selling two models. There's a 64 gigabyte model. That is a hundred and thirty dollars
00:18:35 ◼ ► This is the part. This is my gripe. It is also the only the hundred fifty dollar version includes support
00:18:55 ◼ ► And I'm I don't know what I'm looking forward to that and this is where I get confused and I tried to look into it
00:19:01 ◼ ► Thread is I don't know what the difference between thread and matter are matter is yeah. Do you understand?
00:19:10 ◼ ► Yeah, some some matter is basically a new standard for device intercommunication. That's agreed
00:19:20 ◼ ► Google and Amazon and Apple and everybody and the idea is we're not gonna have those wars anymore where it's like oh
00:19:25 ◼ ► I bought a fan but it only works with Alexa and so now I can't use it with my homekit stuff and like that's all
00:19:45 ◼ ► Right if it's a smart home device and you see this a lot historically in all the devices you would buy where you'd have to
00:19:52 ◼ ► box that you attach to your network via ethernet and plug in and then like I like Phillips-Hugh has those and the Lutron Casita has
00:20:08 ◼ ► reliable than your Wi-Fi to talk to its little devices and go back and forth and act as the middleman with your actual like IP
00:20:17 ◼ ► So thread some of those devices are thread radios like it's and there's like Zigbee and there's like a bunch of different things
00:20:47 ◼ ► It will do the talking for you and the HomePod mini has a thread radio in it, which is kind of interesting
00:20:58 ◼ ► So what really is happening here is they've pulled thread and ethernet out of the Apple TV 4k
00:21:18 ◼ ► But it's the one matter uses and it's a wireless protocol right because Wi-Fi is also a wireless protocol
00:21:24 ◼ ► But yeah, the idea there is that you have a bunch of devices that I think it's lower power
00:21:31 ◼ ► I don't actually know all the details of thread versus Wi-Fi, but that's the idea is they can talk to each other on
00:21:37 ◼ ► This thread system and you've got a bunch of devices out there that already support thread radios
00:21:43 ◼ ► And so you can talk to them and they don't have to get an IP address and be on your Wi-Fi instead
00:21:48 ◼ ► They kind of like radio back and just say here I am using thread. So I have the Lutron stuff
00:21:56 ◼ ► Repeaters I have like two of them I think in the house and we have our lights on Lutron and our shades and they work
00:22:09 ◼ ► I've ever used in my life of and I've got a hero home network here that I'm very happy with and
00:22:18 ◼ ► My original two of my hero stations are the originals from like when there was only one
00:22:25 ◼ ► One euro base station and they just finally dropped software support for it. It's like you're not gonna get software updates
00:22:37 ◼ ► Eros that I have plugged in Ethernet around the house have made the group the most reliable Wi-Fi I've ever had with great performance
00:22:54 ◼ ► Have been air pods work over Bluetooth and have been very reliable for me and I love them
00:23:00 ◼ ► They're one of my favorite products that I own period but none of them work as reliably as the Lutron stuff
00:23:08 ◼ ► Rebooted the little repeaters for my stuff ever. I've never I don't it's they just run and run and
00:23:16 ◼ ► Hate having to install little plastic boxes that use power and are attached to Ethernet
00:23:22 ◼ ► But I can't argue with the results. So the idea the dream here, so I think thread evolved out of Zigbee
00:23:47 ◼ ► Thread will also do mesh networking and the idea is that the thread stuff can be put into all sorts of devices like an Apple TV
00:23:53 ◼ ► Like an ero I think ero has that like the home pod mini so that you can talk to all of these devices
00:23:59 ◼ ► And they're not hanging around on your Wi-Fi if they don't have to which is I think actually good for your Wi-Fi, too
00:24:06 ◼ ► And you run into problems with these devices as we add more and more devices where it's like how well
00:24:11 ◼ ► How do you even get the damn thing on your Wi-Fi if your Wi-Fi has a password and I guess thread in addition to?
00:24:18 ◼ ► Just being meant for these small low-powered devices gets around that too. I don't know what the security at you know
00:24:26 ◼ ► Screwing around with your thread stuff. I don't know but you know it's all it just like with Bluetooth
00:24:31 ◼ ► I think there's like some validation that goes yeah, because right now a lot of these smart home devices get on by
00:24:36 ◼ ► Bluetooth basically you stand there with your device and running their app and you it says or the Bluetooth or Wi-Fi
00:24:43 ◼ ► They make their own like temporary Wi-Fi network one of those and you basically say here's what my Wi-Fi
00:24:51 ◼ ► And it says thank you and then it basically reboots attaches to your Wi-Fi and the setup process continues
00:24:58 ◼ ► But I mean the good news after all this and it's gonna be I think it's gonna be shaky for a year or more
00:25:04 ◼ ► And there's a lot of products. They're gonna be not quite compatible that are gonna be interesting, but in the long run
00:25:09 ◼ ► I'm so glad that arms race is over right where it's literally like Apple doesn't want to play with Google
00:25:15 ◼ ► Who doesn't want to play with Amazon and so everybody's products are kind of a Swiss cheese kind of like oh?
00:25:27 ◼ ► Not be able to sell some our home products because people got fed up with the incompatibility stuff
00:25:36 ◼ ► But it is interesting that then and Apple turns around and says well you don't really need a thread radio in this cheap Apple TV
00:25:51 ◼ ► Hats and talk about it. I do it talk about the 90s, but it does remind me of computer networking
00:26:03 ◼ ► Taking the tidal wave that just wiped everything out, but it this will be bizarre to people who are younger than us, but
00:26:21 ◼ ► the Apple advantage was the same as you'd think it was where it was the easiest where it was local talk and you could just
00:26:35 ◼ ► Automatically and would show up and would have like normal looking names like your computer Macs would have
00:26:41 ◼ ► Names that had spaces in them and capital letters and as many characters as you wanted, you know
00:26:48 ◼ ► You could set up like a network like at the student newspaper or something like that and give every Mac a sensible name
00:26:54 ◼ ► Or you could give them playful names like Spock and Kirk and or go Star Wars or something like that
00:27:07 ◼ ► Vice versa you couldn't just bring a Mac into a PC environment and there were things like what novel
00:27:15 ◼ ► But that was like a career track where you could become a novel certified network engineer
00:27:20 ◼ ► And you'd look in the mid 90s. You'd look in the the one ads which is how you'd find a job
00:27:31 ◼ ► But this is I'm not exaggerating the way you'd find a job is you'd find you'd buy the load the Sunday newspaper
00:27:45 ◼ ► You'd go to the you're a computer nerd technology section and there'd be all sorts of ads that were you
00:27:58 ◼ ► It was a nightmare and there are all sorts of things other standards remember token ring
00:28:05 ◼ ► I never understood it either and and then at some point they're like everybody's doing IP networking. That's what we're doing now
00:28:11 ◼ ► But yeah, the my first job at Mac user magazine back in the day we had it was all local talk
00:28:16 ◼ ► We didn't have with file servers and there was Ethernet and all of that. But when I started
00:28:48 ◼ ► But like when I started I was all still finishing up my grad school at Cal and so I had a dial-up account
00:29:02 ◼ ► That's what it was like. So anyway, are you saying that hopefully when we get through this matter thing?
00:29:11 ◼ ► Well, yeah that the that the interop layer should be open and everybody should disagree to it and it should be good, right?
00:29:33 ◼ ► Wouldn't doesn't want to participate just because it's there and it's a standard and has lots of adherence if it's no good
00:29:41 ◼ ► But the way that getting stuff Wi-Fi is the perfect example, right that Wi-Fi is just Wi-Fi and yes
00:29:56 ◼ ► Overall Wi-Fi has been an exemplary open standard right where it keeps evolving. It keeps getting better and
00:30:20 ◼ ► Your Wi-Fi is my Wi-Fi and as long as the number of your Wi-Fi is compatible stuff just works, right?
00:30:26 ◼ ► Something like that for home networking seems just what the doctor ordered and I guess it's hopefully it was inevitable
00:30:35 ◼ ► I just want to buy we bought him a couple years ago because as people may know follow me and my wife on Twitter
00:30:45 ◼ ► So a smart socket for Christmas tree lights so you can just tell one of your dinguses to turn on all the Christmas tree lights
00:30:52 ◼ ► Or turn them off as you're leaving the house or going to bed is an enormous convenience
00:31:04 ◼ ► But you can't find one that works with both and it's like this why this this is ridiculous
00:31:10 ◼ ► So hopefully that's over and theoretically I had Mike Hurley on upgrade a couple weeks ago
00:31:15 ◼ ► Walk me through a nice explainer article actually that I think the verge did about matter
00:31:20 ◼ ► But one of the things that there's stuff in there that is is if it works is even better, right?
00:31:25 ◼ ► Like it's the idea that you can use the app that comes with it or you can use your preference
00:31:42 ◼ ► But on the back end it has things like the idea that they did the devices matter devices can talk to each other
00:31:52 ◼ ► The dream is if you have a if you have a device that like when this device gets activated do something on another device
00:32:00 ◼ ► With HomeKit the HomeKit hub sits there sees that the status of one device has changed and then tells the other device to change
00:32:15 ◼ ► That first device tells the other device because it knows it's watching. I just changed and then it changes and there's no
00:32:22 ◼ ► middleman required for that sort of thing all the devices sort of know to talk to each other and
00:32:53 ◼ ► That has thread support. What is the advantage of having such a thing in your house? That's actually a yeah
00:32:59 ◼ ► I think the idea is that you need something with a thread radio to get that stuff on the to talk to it from your
00:33:05 ◼ ► Other devices right whether they're on your local network or whether you're over the internet somewhere
00:33:21 ◼ ► Then you probably have to buy one of those little dinguses that that talks that's like a standalone thing
00:33:27 ◼ ► But that's why they want to embed thread radios and a bunch of stuff like your eero or your home pod or your Apple TV
00:33:33 ◼ ► So that it can be the guiding light there. But yeah, that's the idea is that I ideally you wouldn't
00:33:41 ◼ ► So that if your Apple TV gets in a weird state your because this has happened to me Apple TV gets in a weird state
00:33:48 ◼ ► And suddenly none of my smart home stuff works because it was acting as the hub and like that's no good, right?
00:34:01 ◼ ► but again, this is all like the matter doesn't launch for another couple of weeks and then there's gonna be a
00:34:06 ◼ ► Process after that, but I'm at least optimistic that it's gonna be a better situation than we're in now, right?
00:34:26 ◼ ► It's better off like for example our home security panel the thing that you type the numbers on when we first got the house
00:34:38 ◼ ► It has cellular backup just in case like the Wi-Fi goes out so we can still communicate
00:34:42 ◼ ► And we had to forget if I don't even think we had to pay but they had to come and replace it last summer
00:34:55 ◼ ► So it's always better to get something with the future ahead of it. Even if it's not there's not a compelling story now
00:35:01 ◼ ► I just think overall though. It's the Ethernet port that seems like something you pay 20 bucks for
00:35:14 ◼ ► I guess it makes sense that it's part of the $20 upgrade but I don't know that just seems really annoying to me
00:35:20 ◼ ► It just seems like if you like if the story was if you have a product called Apple TV 4k, you've got a thread
00:35:36 ◼ ► Do you have another do you have a home pod mini? Do you have any Euro do you have some other thread?
00:35:44 ◼ ► And then if you find out you don't and you bought the 129 Apple TV, you're like, oh man, what do you what do I do?
00:35:49 ◼ ► Now do I buy some other well especially sent and and again the Ethernet could be I think for a lot of people I have Ethernet
00:35:56 ◼ ► but I actually don't have my Apple TV on Ethernet because I have terrific Wi-Fi in the living room and it's actually I don't have
00:36:19 ◼ ► Even if your Wi-Fi is not ideal a lot of people might look at it and say well, I definitely I don't need the storage
00:36:25 ◼ ► I have no I don't you know, I never store anything on my Apple TV and I don't use Ethernet
00:36:29 ◼ ► So why not save 20 bucks and I could see that and I don't know what thread is. I've never heard of it
00:36:44 ◼ ► Coming to regret it a year or two and that from now when thread is more of a big deal and they're like, ah crap
00:37:05 ◼ ► This to me is big news not because it is a particularly big deal how one charges a remote control that
00:37:24 ◼ ► It's my primary devices in Apple TV for all my entertainment and weeks if not months go by definitely months plugging in months for me
00:37:36 ◼ ► but it is the fact that switching something like that from lightning to USB-C has been the
00:37:57 ◼ ► Good indications that like lightning is being beaten out of the product line and the one that had me going
00:38:18 ◼ ► Going to be the tell are the not the computers but the peripherals things like the remote control for Apple TV
00:38:31 ◼ ► Trackpad and mouse right trackpad and mouse trying to think what else there is that Apple has that charges by lightning
00:38:42 ◼ ► We're waiting for them to change to me was a tell so I think that the reason the AirPods case didn't
00:38:55 ◼ ► and so this is going to be the Apple TV for I would guess at least two years possibly three and
00:39:22 ◼ ► You compare them with an Android phone or a PC or anything that could use Bluetooth headphones
00:39:32 ◼ ► Server of audio to AirPods and I don't think it's a coincidence. That's it was the iPhone event where they
00:39:49 ◼ ► AirPod cases on lightning and if let's just say as a lot of people expect including me next September
00:40:04 ◼ ► 15 Pro has lightning or I mean USB C and the regular 15 still has lightning then they'll just
00:40:31 ◼ ► Charge them with magsafe if they don't want to don't want to carry lightning cables around exactly right and it'll all turn over
00:40:39 ◼ ► Because it's not even the product that you have to modify it's the case and they already did that when they add a wireless charging
00:40:48 ◼ ► Drop into the production line a new version of the case that has USB C instead and no one will even notice
00:40:55 ◼ ► No, I'd say the only disappointing thing I have about that the remote is that I really was hoping that they would put one
00:41:04 ◼ ► Like it's in the AirPods case so that you can find it or maybe even a speaker like in the AirPods case
00:41:10 ◼ ► I'm sure it's an issue of battery life and the thinness of that little aluminum thing and that like the air like the iPod Pro
00:41:30 ◼ ► And it was funny because over the weekend we Amy and I I might I don't know whose fault it was
00:41:56 ◼ ► I've been asking that ever since it came out and yet here we are and still no find mine and
00:42:03 ◼ ► it's very strange especially since they make the damn thing as small and thin and right you can have a
00:42:10 ◼ ► Sofa with the tightest tolerance between the cushions that a comfortable sofa can have and the Apple TV
00:42:27 ◼ ► But because I boy that really seemed it just seems like it is the one thing that I misplaced the most, you know
00:42:32 ◼ ► And because every once in a while, it's not in a sofa cushion. It's like and this was my move
00:42:42 ◼ ► Yep to get some snacks or something. That's my number one move is like where where is it? Where is it?
00:42:46 ◼ ► Oh, it's laying on the counter in the kitchen, isn't it? Right because I took it out in one hand and then realized I was
00:42:53 ◼ ► Like getting a bottle that needs to be opened with two hands and put it down and poured a thing and brought some
00:42:59 ◼ ► Pirate booty out or whatever the snack of the evening is and where the hell's the remote I left it in the other room
00:43:08 ◼ ► Otherwise though. I don't really have any complaints about the remote. It's I'm used to it. I like it
00:43:14 ◼ ► Yeah, still not sure I would have put the buttons in the order that they put them. But yeah, but I've gotten
00:43:21 ◼ ► Acclimated to it overall. I know some people complain about the side button that they hit the site the one that you do to talk
00:43:36 ◼ ► My big problem with it. Is that although I really do like having that touch surface on the button
00:43:44 ◼ ► Swiping and so I end up in a different clicking the wrong thing that that it's a tricky thing
00:43:50 ◼ ► and then also they introduce that whole idea of like touching and holding on the ring and doing like a scrub and that seems to
00:44:09 ◼ ► It sure doesn't with this USB C change. It sure doesn't seem like they're gonna anytime soon. Yeah. What do you think about the pricing?
00:44:31 ◼ ► Think these prices are much more in line with what Apple TV should be. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny
00:44:38 ◼ ► A lot of it because there was a market share argument, right? Which is never what you should really make with Apple, which is
00:44:48 ◼ ► but the thing about their sort of years-long process of getting Apple TV stuff into TVs and onto streaming boxes and it's basically
00:44:56 ◼ ► Everywhere if you buy a new something it will almost certainly support Apple's right TV stuff
00:45:08 ◼ ► The Apple TV is more expensive because it's a better if not premium a better experience than a low-end
00:45:27 ◼ ► I think that it has some serious interface problems in some areas and the fact that tvOS just got updated and nothing changed
00:45:49 ◼ ► They work, but they are slow the interfaces are clunky, but they work right and when I use my Apple TV
00:46:05 ◼ ► Rosen steel has written about it at length on his own blog and on six colors and like all over the place like and he's right
00:46:11 ◼ ► There are lots of things that Apple is not doing well enough and Apple's entry into sports
00:46:16 ◼ ► I think might be the thing that finally spurs them to do better because they don't handle a lot of stuff like what's on right now
00:46:24 ◼ ► They have some of that but it's not really well designed and I think that they're a little still a little too app centric
00:46:33 ◼ ► Can see the Apple TV hardware now in a way that it makes more sense as an Apple product which is it's nicer
00:46:40 ◼ ► like in the end you're paying more because it's nicer because it's got a faster processor and a nicer remote and everything is smooth and
00:46:49 ◼ ► You don't have to wait every time you click for another thing to load which is what happens on my mom's Roku because it was
00:47:02 ◼ ► but it's also full of commercial garbage because it's Amazon and they're trying to sell you stuff so
00:47:07 ◼ ► It is a much better argument to make that yes Apple TV costs more not as much as it did
00:47:17 ◼ ► You get something that's nicer and a lot of people will point out also that Apple is not as likely to be tracking your
00:47:48 ◼ ► In fact, I know you're getting tracked in a lot of ways within the apps you use right and that you go into Hulu
00:47:55 ◼ ► And Hulu is tracking whatever you've watched and I'm sure they're taking all the metrics you want
00:48:00 ◼ ► But at least you know, you're only doing that because you're choosing to use Hulu at the system at the system level
00:48:09 ◼ ► I mean you can I have I mean I have a Roku TV and you can opt out of a bunch of stuff and people have
00:48:14 ◼ ► Done network traffic analysis. I think that some of that like it's all spying on you is a little overblown
00:48:22 ◼ ► this is one of those cases where if you're like, I don't like the idea that I'm buying a cheap box that's being subsidized by either
00:48:32 ◼ ► That's analyzing everything I do and that makes me uncomfortable put that on the pile of reasons to get an Apple TV
00:48:37 ◼ ► But it is but you're not gonna you're not gonna get an Apple TV for 20 bucks at Walmart
00:48:41 ◼ ► You're not well, and I think you're and I but I think you're exactly right too that the lower end
00:48:48 ◼ ► Things that you plug in whether they're a stick or a box. They're all getting eaten by the built-in stuff
00:48:59 ◼ ► It's at the point now where it you can definitely see I see from extended family members how it's eaten into it where it
00:49:06 ◼ ► Five six seven eight year even a ten year upgrade cycle for TVs is a long period of time, but it does happen and
00:49:18 ◼ ► This is to plug in the TV when the it they're no better than the one that's built in and you already you know
00:49:39 ◼ ► Like my mom's Roku box for 25 bucks, whatever it was at Walmart like the one embedded in my TV is way better
00:49:46 ◼ ► like so so yes, and then it's I'm gonna have it for whatever five or ten years and and and it'll get older but like
00:49:54 ◼ ► So many people are gonna buy a new TV and then throw their box away because those cheap streamer boxes aren't or they're there just to
00:50:05 ◼ ► Streaming support whatever so that's why I bought her that Roku box and everybody out there is now gonna say Jason
00:50:10 ◼ ► Why aren't you giving her an Apple TV? It's like, alright, you're probably right. I probably should
00:50:18 ◼ ► But but yeah that that is that that stuff's all going away right because if she got another TV today
00:50:31 ◼ ► In this position is the sort of like but if you want something nicer, which you know is quintessential Apple, right?
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00:52:25 ◼ ► That's when you get it you open it up and it is fresh and once you know this and once you start tasting it is
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00:52:48 ◼ ► They have good so many roasters so many varieties and it's just a great service and you really can you
00:52:54 ◼ ► You can just dial in the exact amount of coffee that you want and just take a guess if you're just getting started
00:53:01 ◼ ► I haven't done it before if you just say every two weeks and then you find out that like after ten days you're out of
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00:53:24 ◼ ► Have three packages of coffee just sitting there waiting for you with a new one on its way
00:53:28 ◼ ► It is so super convenient and they really really help you find the type of coffee that you like and once you start getting coffee
00:53:39 ◼ ► It's like a recommendation profile and you it really does work the coffee. I'm getting from trade now
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00:54:22 ◼ ► Dot-com slash the talk show. All right time for iPads, I guess we'll go from the bottom. Sorry Apple TV fans. We're done
00:54:32 ◼ ► The 10th generation iPad does the new one does not replace the ninth generation because the price is higher, right?
00:54:40 ◼ ► You can get a ninth generation one that starts at three twenty nine and the new one starts at four forty nine
00:54:46 ◼ ► That's it. That's not a minor difference. That's a worth keeping the old one around difference. That's over a hundred bucks
00:54:55 ◼ ► We're around it feels very much like they know that they've got not only generally in public but probably
00:55:00 ◼ ► constitutionally in especially education, but maybe even in businesses too. They've got customers who will not accept
00:55:06 ◼ ► 1199 MacBook Air will not accept for 49 iPad. So what do you do? Well your modern Apple you just keep the old
00:55:13 ◼ ► and introduce your new one at a higher price point, which is why I've been thinking of this tenth generation iPad as
00:55:41 ◼ ► The iPad se without ever actually calling anything the iPad se but it actually fits the exact role that the
00:56:27 ◼ ► You know if you think of it as the iPad se then I think the lineup makes total sense. Mm-hmm
00:56:45 ◼ ► Tenth generation what's interesting about it is like what they chose to upgrade and what they chose to not upgrade. I think that's kind of fascinating
00:56:53 ◼ ► Because it's got it doesn't have a laminated screen like the iPad air. It doesn't support the pencil to like the iPad air
00:57:09 ◼ ► There are all sorts of things that the iPad air still does but the iPad 10th generation has evolved over the ninth generation in
00:57:20 ◼ ► Having a keyboard that has a trackpad on it. Yeah, right and you know getting away from the home button, right?
00:57:28 ◼ ► I'm getting wait. Yeah, I think which I think is makes it feel much more modern even though like the air, right?
00:57:42 ◼ ► But it's consistent around the whole thing and there isn't a big space at the bottom where there's a home button
00:57:53 ◼ ► I mean we've been moving towards this ever since the iPhone 10 which first introduced this new design language where
00:58:04 ◼ ► Square cornered rectangular screen and a home button whether or not the home button has touch ID or not
00:58:14 ◼ ► fundamental design it's I you know, it shows how long these transitions can be right because the iPhone 10 was like
00:58:21 ◼ ► 2017 right at my right or is it 2016? I don't know. It's at least five or six years. I guess five years ago. Yeah
00:58:30 ◼ ► So now it's finally trickled down throughout the whole iPad lineup - I mean there still is the
00:58:36 ◼ ► iPad ninth generation and there still is the iPhone SE so that we're not totally out of it yet as
00:58:47 ◼ ► The light at the end of the tunnel of okay. The home button is gone is clearly on the horizon. Yeah
00:58:58 ◼ ► But they have had to keep the old one around because this is obviously not a product that is targeted at 329
00:59:10 ◼ ► The there's this new case that is using the smart connector on the side and unlike they didn't upgrade the smart connector to the back
00:59:18 ◼ ► Like the air which means that it can't use the magic keyboard that they make that's the cantilevered thing
00:59:25 ◼ ► They kept the smart connector on the side that used to be remember it was originally the iPad
00:59:30 ◼ ► Pro smart connector and it came down to all models and this is the last one other than the iPad 9 that still has it
00:59:41 ◼ ► That's very different from the magic keyboard and it's got a kickstand and it isn't backlit
00:59:51 ◼ ► Which everybody complained that the magic keyboard for iPad Pro did not have it's got it
00:59:56 ◼ ► That's another great sign and they moved the FaceTime camera so that it's in the center. That's great
01:00:01 ◼ ► And then they and then moved it to USB C because that's the way things are going. That's great
01:00:11 ◼ ► So we made this plastic tongue call you can use with the original Apple pencils like what huh? Like the choices
01:00:24 ◼ ► So it's like they're advancing the platform over here and then it's like but not you Apple pencil
01:00:40 ◼ ► By the time this podcast airs the embargo will be up so we can talk about it. I've got these things
01:00:44 ◼ ► This is what I was joking about at the outset of the show in front of me and you go to get these briefings
01:01:08 ◼ ► question I was anticipating getting a total non answer from and my guess was and I do think this is a factor that
01:01:43 ◼ ► M1 versus an a14 chip is certainly part of it the laminated screen this that the other thing does add up and you can say
01:01:59 ◼ ► But you don't have to spend long looking at the comparison tech specs to see. Oh, well, there's this and there's this and there's this and
01:02:15 ◼ ► Harder to see than things like Oh laminated screen once you look for it. You can I can definitely see it
01:02:21 ◼ ► You can definitely see that the screen isn't as nice and that you can see that there's like a gap there
01:02:36 ◼ ► It's not just magnets to snap the snap. I'm sure the magnets are the cheapest part of it, but the actual technology that
01:02:56 ◼ ► Presumably this device is eventually going to cost 329, right? They're gonna eventually that iPad
01:03:16 ◼ ► So it's been I think it's built for that going forward. I think that's a reason maybe it is the reason
01:03:26 ◼ ► The other answer I got is that there are a zillion Apple pencil ones out there in institutions
01:03:44 ◼ ► The lightning like 9th the iPad 9th gen that use those pencils are doing it for cost reasons
01:04:08 ◼ ► That's the combined cost is now $500 right and 20% of the cost of the device is the pencil
01:04:17 ◼ ► Those are the people who are going to buy this iPad because the budget still matters and if they can reuse the pencils
01:04:47 ◼ ► But you're in it you're in a stratosphere where your overall budget can absorb an extra $99 in a way that
01:04:53 ◼ ► Someone whose budget $400 is grit your teeth just for the 400 bucks. It makes a big difference
01:05:01 ◼ ► Yeah, I understand that I think that I was thinking this week about the emac do you remember the emac it was a
01:05:17 ◼ ► The reason they made it was education. It's because the edge. It's the same reason why there was an iMac for years
01:05:25 ◼ ► That had a spinning disk and an optical drive and like all these things that Apple had given up on but they made
01:05:32 ◼ ► What I'm saying is Apple makes a lot of weird decisions because we aren't in touch with
01:05:39 ◼ ► Who the institutional buyers are and what they want and there's somebody inside Apple who says you?
01:05:46 ◼ ► Can't do this because you don't understand how many people buy this and so pencil one I get it
01:05:53 ◼ ► I think that's not a bad excuse. I wonder if there might have been other ways to mitigate that
01:06:07 ◼ ► Hardware like you could be compatible with both that they chose not to do that. So we end up in the situation where
01:06:16 ◼ ► Also, I gotta say this is like the chickens coming home to roost right the design decision Apple made in
01:06:22 ◼ ► 2018 with the iPad Pro having the magnetic attachment which is so great for the for the pencil to love that pencil, too
01:06:29 ◼ ► But that means that if you want to make an iPad that supports pencil - you have to do the magnetic with the induction charging
01:06:36 ◼ ► Otherwise, you can't support that one and the design decision they made with the original pencil, which I think at the time
01:06:47 ◼ ► Underneath and you can plug it into the bottom of an iPad which is super awkward and weird
01:06:54 ◼ ► It always felt like it was gonna break off when I would do it like maybe very uncomfortable
01:06:59 ◼ ► The pop well now they're in this situation. Yeah, and so now they're in a situation where they're like
01:07:04 ◼ ► But what do we do? We can't use that and we can't really use that and somebody was like well
01:07:15 ◼ ► Pencil in on one side and a USB cable in on another because it's too long. There's too much torque
01:07:21 ◼ ► There's too long. You would literally snap it off if you write stuck if you had it have like a USB C sticking out of it
01:07:38 ◼ ► But it's it is a logical progression when you consider all the other decisions they made
01:07:53 ◼ ► All their choices were probably pushed push the price up or the margins down depending on how you want to look at it
01:08:09 ◼ ► because well I painted myself in a corner and I figured out the best solution was to take off my shoes and socks and
01:08:30 ◼ ► And I also think that there's that and we talked about like their future plans. I suspect there's a pencil three in the works and
01:08:38 ◼ ► When they looked at this they're like we're not gonna put any effort into doing a new pencil right now because we're already working on
01:08:49 ◼ ► even bought or worked with Logitech because Logitech has that product that they've had since the very beginning of the Apple pencil called the crayon
01:09:07 ◼ ► You just bring it near an iPad and it works and you can draw on it and they made a new USB C version
01:09:12 ◼ ► But it doesn't really matter you can use either version and like they could have done there are lots of like
01:09:20 ◼ ► But I think in the end they looked at it and said we're not investing more time in old pencil low-end pencil
01:09:35 ◼ ► So the new one that they announced coincident with last week's announcement is USB C for charging
01:09:44 ◼ ► Do you pair it with a cable or do you pair it wirelessly? It's adorable think believe it or not
01:09:51 ◼ ► And it's been a little while. I don't know where mine is. I need to fish it out. Mine is the original
01:09:55 ◼ ► So it's like orange. It's probably batteries probably dead. It probably doesn't work anymore, but I believe you don't pair it. I
01:10:02 ◼ ► Believe that it works entirely based on proximity and you just bring it near an iPad and it starts working
01:10:08 ◼ ► And then it starts to work with that iPad and then if you turn and use a different iPad it just starts with that one
01:10:32 ◼ ► You can have a bunch of those crayons and a bunch of iPads and you don't have to worry about pairing or anything
01:10:53 ◼ ► Attaching pencil to magnetically it suddenly changes from being paired with a to B or just plugging the lightning
01:11:02 ◼ ► Plug into the socket on red a home button iPad just pairs the iPad or the pencil with it
01:11:13 ◼ ► Like you said in a classroom situation where everybody picks up an iPad and you don't have to worry that you've got
01:11:26 ◼ ► You got to get the adapter and the cable and so they thing to do that the adapter is nine dollars
01:11:36 ◼ ► Right. I forget what else has cost nine dollars over the I think like the I think the AirPods eartips cost nine dollars
01:11:44 ◼ ► Yeah, the headphone to lightning adapter when they first got rid of the headphone jack was nine dollars
01:11:49 ◼ ► Yeah, I'm sure if it still USB headphone adapter, I think is that too. They're all it's yeah nine dollars is the
01:12:08 ◼ ► I can't believe I'm even saying this new iPad or new Apple pencil ones that are being sold, right?
01:12:18 ◼ ► I got they gave me a new pencil one, which is I don't know how many of them now floating around my house
01:12:24 ◼ ► My old one battery died. So I was glad they sent one this time. Oh, yeah, like it did like wouldn't even charge
01:12:38 ◼ ► And so I asked because I did tell me at the briefing that going forward all pencil one purchases included
01:12:44 ◼ ► I was like is it always gonna be two separate boxes and they're like, no it will eventually be in the box with the pencil
01:12:55 ◼ ► It is awkward. I mean that the biggest problem to me isn't the nine dollars if you need to buy it
01:13:03 ◼ ► That's the single biggest design mistake with the pencil one is the cap because the caps are so easily loseable
01:13:21 ◼ ► But I lost the caps and I also thought what the hell why do I even care about the cap the lightning the male lightning?
01:13:27 ◼ ► Jack at the end of the pencil, I guess it looks better with the cap on but I I think the design would have been better
01:13:37 ◼ ► Retractable if it was like like the way that a click pen goes in and out what if the lightning?
01:13:50 ◼ ► It really in my opinion. Yeah, and I mean I and I totally get why they had it be Jack because the
01:13:57 ◼ ► It is such a even though it's awkward and weird. You don't need to find a cable, right?
01:14:02 ◼ ► You just plug it into the bottom of your iPad and it pairs and it charges and you've got it going
01:14:06 ◼ ► Well, and the other problem with lightning is there's never been such a thing as a lightning to lightning cable with male lightning on both ends
01:14:17 ◼ ► To do that, I think because I had one but so you could charge it independently, but it was not meant to do that
01:14:23 ◼ ► I mean because the the counter-argument could be maybe they could have just made a lightning port on it, right?
01:14:38 ◼ ► It's so funny the adapter if you didn't notice if you put a link in the show notes to it
01:14:46 ◼ ► I promise but if you look at the little picture, they show the picture on the one side on the lightning side
01:14:53 ◼ ► It is a female USB on one side female lightning on the other and you can tell which is which if you know
01:15:12 ◼ ► You can just look in a USB-c port and you can see what I'm talking about. So you can tell but they also put just a little
01:15:25 ◼ ► What would the logo be? It would be a lightning bolt, I guess which is already used for Thunderbolt
01:15:31 ◼ ► Yeah, so it's the I guess that circle means stick your pencil here. Yeah, I guess I don't know
01:15:37 ◼ ► It's like for lack of a better icon. They just used a circle so you can kind of tell without peering into the slot
01:15:47 ◼ ► It is so loseable, but I I don't like you said they painted themselves in a corner and what do you do?
01:15:51 ◼ ► You can he got you something's gonna get paint all over it or you're gonna sit there forever
01:15:56 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean my argument would be if you're going to the trouble of going this far and upgrading this thing
01:16:30 ◼ ► So they could have mitigated this in a bunch of ways and they just decided not to because it might have cost them an extra
01:16:47 ◼ ► I have tried because I thought well wait what if I put the adapter on the pencil one and then plug the u.s.
01:16:59 ◼ ► With is the reason that the iPad Pro is never supported pencil one because it doesn't have lightning so thus couldn't pair
01:17:06 ◼ ► Is that the only thing but when you try it you get accessory not supported this accessory is not supported by this device
01:17:25 ◼ ► Adapter which I think is definitely it's right 100% certain to happen to some people, right?
01:17:50 ◼ ► So I asked can you charge it by plugging it into an iPhone and I was told the answer is yes
01:17:56 ◼ ► It will charge plugged into now. You obviously can't draw or pair it with an iPhone, but it will at least give it a charge. So
01:18:06 ◼ ► I mean, I don't know how many people would think to try that but in a pinch I can see help
01:18:13 ◼ ► If you file that away in your head that in a pinch if you have an Apple pencil one that needs a charge and you
01:18:26 ◼ ► I know enough charge to use it for a bit right what else I'm trying to think what else I tried I
01:18:42 ◼ ► But I think as we've described like I get why they're at this point and I get that they maybe
01:18:57 ◼ ► So we'll be we'll just handle the embarrassment and we'll move on but it's not a great experience
01:19:02 ◼ ► Seriously, if you're somebody who ends up with this look at that Logitech crayon because it's just gonna be a way better experience all around unless
01:19:09 ◼ ► You absolutely need the pressure sensitivity stuff and you know if you are but for most people
01:19:15 ◼ ► I feel like the crayon is not only will it work better with this iPad, but it'll also work with all the other ones, right?
01:19:22 ◼ ► That's the other yeah for institution like education buyers who might have might be thinking well, we'll buy some of these iPads
01:19:33 ◼ ► Even the mini and don't invest in the Apple pencil one by a crayon instead right by the crayons instead
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01:22:24 ◼ ► Honestly because USB C is sort of like cat that the iPad catching up to the rest of the iPad lineup
01:22:29 ◼ ► The one that now puts the just plain no adjective low priced iPad ahead of all other iPads is that front-facing?
01:22:48 ◼ ► I actually because it my kitchen laptop is my iPad and so like we when Amy and I like we FaceTime family or
01:22:56 ◼ ► Anybody else like our school stuff now that the kids in college? We don't really parents aren't really involved thankfully
01:23:02 ◼ ► But I like when Jonas was in high school and there'd be stuff and during kovat for sure with school stuff
01:23:07 ◼ ► We did the zoom stuff together with an iPad and it's just a constant irritation to me that in a laptop
01:23:15 ◼ ► Configuration the camera is wrong. It makes it look a it's - it's even lower than at the top and it everybody knows that
01:23:35 ◼ ► When you're looking at the people on screen and the camera on the side makes it look like you're looking off-screen
01:23:42 ◼ ► Like you're not paying attention to the call and if you stare at the camera so that you look like you're paying attention
01:23:47 ◼ ► You can't see the people's faces. It is it is the wrong orientation if you're using it in a laptop configuration
01:24:03 ◼ ► I was like, oh my god, this is weird. I look right in FaceTime on an iPad. Yeah. No, it's huge
01:24:28 ◼ ► Yeah, because as we said I think this is I take this as a sign that Apple has realized that that's the right orientation
01:24:37 ◼ ► FaceTiming and people are using their iPads in the landscape orientation, which I've always been a landscape primary
01:24:45 ◼ ► iPad user so it's always been funny to me that you know originally when it booted up the Apple was sideways
01:24:57 ◼ ► But they could fix that at a future time and that the camera was on essentially the side and so this is a sign
01:25:04 ◼ ► I think I choose to take it as a sign that Apple has realized that that iPads are more often used
01:25:09 ◼ ► Horizontally than vertically and that's where the camera should go. That's a great sign
01:25:15 ◼ ► But they haven't put it out in any of their other products that is back to our previous
01:25:19 ◼ ► Conversation about why is the iPad Pro the way it is? I think the answer is they for whatever reason
01:25:27 ◼ ► The external hardware design of the iPad Pro this year probably because they have another design in the works
01:25:35 ◼ ► And they did not they were not interested in doing some sort of interim thing because if you change the where the camera is
01:25:55 ◼ ► Upgraded the iPads Pro this year and just let them go two years between updates, right?
01:26:01 ◼ ► There are a lot of Apple products are not have not over the years been updated on a consistent schedule and some products
01:26:10 ◼ ► bizarre number of years between updates like to me the the big the biggest and best example there probably ever will be or hopefully ever
01:26:21 ◼ ► While we were the rest of the MacBook lineup had moved to retina displays and the MacBook Air didn't and they were just stuck on
01:26:28 ◼ ► What was clearly an old design with a now crappy look at then crappy looking screen, you know
01:26:34 ◼ ► and maybe there were speed bumps in there, but from Intel but nothing that you and now I feel like with Apple silicon they
01:26:43 ◼ ► And now that the iPad pros are on the M series and they're numbering them. I think they want to keep every year
01:26:51 ◼ ► Number plus one and I think they want to put the M number plus one in the iPad Pro every year and I think
01:26:58 ◼ ► There's a I would I think they're gonna try to put like these iPads on an annual update schedule like the iPhone
01:27:09 ◼ ► So it could be that 18 months is what they would end up wanting to do and I think it's unclear to me
01:27:16 ◼ ► The a series and the M series whether they're gonna stay in perfect sync or if they might skip an a series
01:27:27 ◼ ► 17 or whatever it is, but is on the 18 like they could do something like that at some point but regardless
01:27:39 ◼ ► Why would you not update your iPad Pro to be an m2 iPad Pro right? Like it just makes it
01:27:50 ◼ ► To just refresh because it's your chip and why not put it the more of them you make the more of them you sell the
01:27:56 ◼ ► Cheaper it is to make it. So why would you not push ahead right and you get like 15 to 20 percent increase in performance
01:28:03 ◼ ► Depending how you matter and it doesn't really matter if it's closer to 15 for your needs or 20
01:28:14 ◼ ► And if they can keep that going for a decade or more to come that's that sort of compound interest that
01:28:20 ◼ ► Really can in the same way that 15 to 20 percent growth in an investment can really create wealth over time
01:28:28 ◼ ► 15 to 20 percent performance improvements aren't that big for one year but compounded add up
01:28:40 ◼ ► I think we're gonna see years like this where really the only news is oh it went from the
01:28:51 ◼ ► Summer or maybe sooner maybe like in May or something like that or April there will be a new MacBook Air
01:29:11 ◼ ► But otherwise exactly the same and just goes to the m3 because they're not if we assume that the m3 is based on the a16
01:29:27 ◼ ► Are they kind of like we don't we're gonna we're gonna jump over that one and make the next one the basis of the m3
01:29:32 ◼ ► That that's the only question but otherwise yes, I think you're right like there's gonna be an m3 MacBook Air at some point
01:29:42 ◼ ► And why would you again it's not like Intel like they control the rollout and why would you not want that chip everywhere?
01:29:48 ◼ ► Especially since most people aren't upgrading from the previous model right they're upgrading from two or three models past so that compound interest
01:29:54 ◼ ► Right is like again if you've got a 2018 iPad Pro you probably don't need to update to the m2 version
01:30:11 ◼ ► Z and the a12 12 X a 14 iPad is basically as fast as they are if not a little bit faster at some things
01:30:21 ◼ ► But you're probably not coming from the m1 to the m2 unless you're an artist who really wants the new like hover
01:30:26 ◼ ► Feature for Apple pencil because otherwise the speed unless you're editing high-end video or something that speed boost is not gonna really matter
01:30:38 ◼ ► I really wonder if they've sort of artificially gated this they claim that it requires the m2
01:30:51 ◼ ► But I'm a little suspicious that it was gated just so they could have a feature to say this feature is new on the new
01:31:02 ◼ ► Yeah, a little bit of an update to the digitizer or something like that like it's possible that to get the extra precision
01:31:08 ◼ ► They had to update a part that might not even be a very expensive part who knows but it was enough that they said let's do
01:31:15 ◼ ► This it is some kind of Apple TV 4k where they were saying that HDR 10+ was going to be a feature of
01:31:31 ◼ ► It's a little iffy and it might be that simple that they're like they looked at this and we're like
01:31:35 ◼ ► It's not this feature is not good enough on the current hardware, so when we do the next iPad Pro
01:31:44 ◼ ► But other than the hover the only real difference from the previous generation of iPad pros to this generation
01:31:53 ◼ ► Transition and the performance increase it does it's that and hover and I think that's it or is there Wi-Fi Wi-Fi
01:32:06 ◼ ► It's a it's a speed bump what we always called the speed bump it is faster and slightly better
01:32:11 ◼ ► But otherwise it's a very familiar product. It's not like going to the 10th generation iPad
01:32:28 ◼ ► Like procreate was the big one that I saw and I was sitting with somebody who's a procreate
01:32:32 ◼ ► Professional basically was the other person at my briefing and she was levitating during the heart
01:32:36 ◼ ► And I know for a lot of people it's gonna be a nothing feature because what it really is doing is showing you a preview
01:32:44 ◼ ► So when you're hovering over it and it's using a lot of the stuff that is involved in the iOS or iPad OS pointer
01:32:50 ◼ ► So like it'll make icons bigger when you hover over them before you tap on them and there's some stuff
01:33:15 ◼ ► Which was the pencils not down and the pencil is down and now there's three pencil states
01:33:21 ◼ ► No, there's the pencils nowhere. The pencils down and the pencil is hovering close, but not there and as a developer
01:33:44 ◼ ► because you leave the focus state and they know that the pencil has left and so that it can like
01:33:50 ◼ ► Process it faster because it's able to tell is the pencil still hovering or is it gone?
01:33:58 ◼ ► But the procreate stuff is where it really blew me away because that's where they're saying
01:34:03 ◼ ► Hovering and you double tap it does something different or if you're hovering and you move your finger on the screen
01:34:17 ◼ ► It does a you know, you're changing the opacity or you're changing the size of the brush
01:34:21 ◼ ► Right, and that was that moment that okay that for people who use the Apple pencil, especially in artistic areas
01:34:36 ◼ ► A place where like procreate the procreate demo was the perfect one like that's really good because you can preview
01:34:41 ◼ ► See what you're doing not like it use your double tap or use your fingers on the iPad to change
01:34:48 ◼ ► What is going to be put down when you put the pencil down and then put the pencil down?
01:34:52 ◼ ► That's I know it's a little esoteric and it's only gonna work for very specific kind of pencil oriented workflows on the iPad
01:35:02 ◼ ► This isn't just kind of a novelty in a preview because all of a sudden you can have a whole second set of
01:35:08 ◼ ► Gestures based on where the pencil is. That's cool. Yeah, the one that really got me and I could really see I'm not a
01:35:21 ◼ ► Good artists talented artists work digitally. I love watching anybody who's good at their job work, but
01:35:28 ◼ ► Anybody who's ever done that or if you're if you're out there listening and you are like a serious Photoshop jockey or something like that
01:35:34 ◼ ► Everybody I know who's like that works with two hands where they've got their dominant hand on the drawing thing
01:35:40 ◼ ► but stylus or their trackpad or the mouse or whatever and their other hand on the keyboard like in Photoshop and
01:36:02 ◼ ► you just have the mouse right here and you hit a button and it instantly changes from the paintbrush to the eraser and
01:36:08 ◼ ► You erase and then you just hit another button with you watch somebody and they have these things memorized the way that like a touch
01:36:16 ◼ ► typist knows how to type or a pianist knows how to play the piano without thinking about where these things are and that
01:36:24 ◼ ► Pinching with your offhand to change the brush size as you hover close to the iPad surface
01:36:41 ◼ ► That's not a minor update but a major one because it keeps you in the flow and you just flying through
01:36:57 ◼ ► So so like when you're on a web page now you finally for the first time in iOS without the trackpad
01:37:08 ◼ ► Like so if you hover the pencil over a link on a web page the link lights up before you tap it
01:37:17 ◼ ► Where's that right and same thing with like all the little buttons the way buttons get like a hover effect with the mouse pointer
01:37:34 ◼ ► touchscreens ever since the iPhone came out right and as much as touchscreens have proven to be
01:37:50 ◼ ► It's many steps forward but one step back with the loss of hover, which is a useful dimension in user interface
01:38:06 ◼ ► for their web page to highlight a link like if you have black text on a white background and your links are
01:38:17 ◼ ► Visually that's hard. It's hard to see and somebody who maybe doesn't pick up color that well may not see it
01:38:25 ◼ ► so you could always on a Mac or a Windows machine just hover the mouse over something if you think it's a link and
01:38:36 ◼ ► So without clicking it or right-clicking it or anything. You can just tell okay, that's a link
01:38:41 ◼ ► Well, you get that with a pencil now now, is that a reason to buy a new iPad Pro just to have I mean
01:38:56 ◼ ► It's like well, we already did this work for a hover state for the magic keyboard and for any external pointing devices
01:39:02 ◼ ► Why would we not use that for this state too? And that's nice. Yeah, I write my macrolle column every week
01:39:14 ◼ ► Menu with a hover state and I often write those on the iPad and it when I started doing this
01:39:22 ◼ ► we just took you to a second screen and then you load that screen and then you could press new and
01:39:31 ◼ ► It drops down the drop-down menu and I can click new directly from there and that's because there's a hover state on iPad OS now
01:39:41 ◼ ► So I got a really interesting email from a daring fireball reader after Monday's or Tuesday's announcement
01:40:26 ◼ ► You can only use the apps their enterprise apps within the company when you're connected to the VPN for security reasons
01:40:45 ◼ ► It's it's the choice with the iPad for all the reasons. He might prefer using a MacBook to an iPad for
01:40:57 ◼ ► Couldn't with the VPN or can't reliably and he said and but a bunch of my colleagues are in the same boat
01:41:03 ◼ ► You know so him and his colleagues are largely iPad Pro users for this reason and that makes all the sense in the world to me
01:41:11 ◼ ► he said that single biggest complaint that he and all of his colleagues have had all along is the placement of the camera because they're
01:41:59 ◼ ► Thought that was very interesting. I'm sure he's not alone. I was flying a little bit recently
01:42:04 ◼ ► I've noticed I do see more and more people with iPads in airports. It is slowly a growing trend in my opinion
01:42:21 ◼ ► Like to see what devices are people using and what are they doing on them? Are they watching movies? Are they doing spreadsheets?
01:42:34 ◼ ► Or anybody else who was thinking similarly that I'll just buy an iPad because I want the camera in the right place
01:42:46 ◼ ► Magic keyboard folio is it hasn't and because it uses a kickstand to support the screen
01:42:53 ◼ ► It has an enormous footprint on the desk and I there's no way that it would fit on an airplane tray
01:43:41 ◼ ► but you get you can sit at a table and you face so there's four people two on each side of the table and
01:43:48 ◼ ► Your half of the table if you draw the invisible border that's between your side and the person facing you is
01:43:55 ◼ ► Certainly deeper than than an airplane tray, but it's I don't think that this would fit
01:44:04 ◼ ► But you'd have to extend the kickstand past your I'm going to be polite to my fellow traveler and not cross the 50-yard line
01:44:23 ◼ ► Keyboard without a trackpad. They've got the ones that they've put out before that are still out there
01:44:29 ◼ ► That are those smart keyboards that are only keyboards and no track pads, but I feel like they've decided now
01:44:48 ◼ ► You know short of building a cantilevered magic keyboard style for this which would require them to move where the smart connector is and all
01:44:56 ◼ ► Of that they fell back on something that actually third-party iPad cases have been doing for a long time
01:45:01 ◼ ► Which is this kickstand approach of course Microsoft does this they put a kickstand in there
01:45:05 ◼ ► Surfaces and things like that and it's I feel like the message is very much like we know it's not as good
01:45:17 ◼ ► It is not cheap the this keyboard case is 249. It isn't two pieces. They don't attach to each other
01:45:25 ◼ ► That's much thicker than you think it's gonna be because it's got the kickstand built into it right and then there's the part that magnetic
01:45:33 ◼ ► Attaches on the side to the smart connector, and that's got the trackpad and the keyboard
01:45:37 ◼ ► So I would not choose to use this mostly because I do use my iPad in my lap all the time
01:45:42 ◼ ► When I'm in keyboard mode and this doesn't work that way that said I'm really happy that it's got
01:45:49 ◼ ► Function keys at the top because that's the thing that's missing from the existing iPad magic keyboard, and I assume
01:45:56 ◼ ► You can't never say never but like I assume. This is Apple admitting that it's better with them than without them I
01:46:18 ◼ ► It's the one for the iPad pros and the iPad air and it's a one-piece thing that has a stiff
01:46:25 ◼ ► Cantilevered hinge the new thing for the iPad is the smart keyboard. No, it's the smart
01:46:42 ◼ ► So the one that doesn't yeah the one that doesn't have a trackpad is just called the smart keyboard folio
01:46:49 ◼ ► And that's only for the same models that take the magic keyboard to me. I don't know who's buying that product
01:46:55 ◼ ► I can only imagine it's only being bought by someone who's never really tried the trackpad with their iPad
01:47:06 ◼ ► I really can't because the trackpad support is so game-changing when you're using an iPad in
01:47:31 ◼ ► They came up with it truly knocked it out of the park with the implementation in a way that fits with iPad OS
01:47:40 ◼ ► Not just mimicking the mount the Mac and having an arrow pointer and stuff like that. It's all great
01:47:46 ◼ ► I don't know why anybody would want it, but apparently they do because they're still selling it and even that's not cheap
01:47:56 ◼ ► I it's mind-boggling to me that someone would spend $200 and get one without a trackpad. But there it is. Yeah, I
01:48:03 ◼ ► Thought ever since the magic keyboard came out the one for the iPad pros that the reason they didn't have function keys wasn't so much
01:48:10 ◼ ► They didn't think iPad needed them. But because those keys would be underneath the iPad in the design
01:48:22 ◼ ► and again, this is one of those like nerd things where the nerdier people who are more likely to have an iPad Pro or the
01:48:28 ◼ ► Ones who really want an escape key. I think over the last few years. There's been more discussion of escape keys in our
01:48:40 ◼ ► We don't need escape keys on iPads people are I think that they've been surprised by how much yes people
01:48:52 ◼ ► So I think it's weird that the people who are more likely to need an escape key are more likely to own the iPad pros
01:49:00 ◼ ► $300 keyboards that don't have it and they if they had to reach under the iPad to get to it
01:49:09 ◼ ► Put the lie to the argument that you don't need them because they're all in control center, right?
01:49:15 ◼ ► Which is a dumb argument, but I definitely heard people say well you could just use those in control center. It's fine
01:49:19 ◼ ► I don't know if people from Apple told that to me or it was just people on the internet
01:49:22 ◼ ► But like that was like, oh, well, you don't really need it. But here it is right like here it is
01:49:26 ◼ ► They obviously Apple has endorsed the idea and they have managed to fill up every single F key with a function, right?
01:49:36 ◼ ► From the keyboard when you're working on a keyboard or change the volume when from it's so much better
01:49:51 ◼ ► There is actually value in having that escape key and all of those hardware control keys and I would be surprised if we
01:50:04 ◼ ► But I would be surprised if this is in the future like the center on the horizontal side camera these feel like iPad
01:50:14 ◼ ► We often talk about the ways the subtle ways that the Mac subtle and sometimes not subtle ways that the Mac
01:50:29 ◼ ► Where there are habits from using a MacBook that you want to carry forward if you just want it all to be a seamless
01:50:39 ◼ ► obviously Apple would like it if you're the sort of person who owns both an iPad and a MacBook and
01:50:45 ◼ ► To have those habits part of the habit of using a MacBook is that you just reach up to that function key row
01:50:53 ◼ ► Part of the reason that the touch bar had so many people who actually outright despised it
01:51:01 ◼ ► Solutions that weren't as good for adjusting brightness as clever as it was that you could just touch it and slide it people didn't know
01:51:09 ◼ ► It wasn't obvious that you could just touch it yet people thought you had to tap it and then tap again and you can't feel
01:51:15 ◼ ► those buttons and click them and people just want to whack just tap a button to silence it all of a sudden a
01:51:21 ◼ ► Video starts playing sound just reach up with your finger and tap the button to silence it
01:51:27 ◼ ► Instantly people want to do that and not being able to do it with your iPad pros continues to be frustrating
01:51:48 ◼ ► That's for later. And so you just have to use because let's be honest. They would sell a bunch of these
01:51:54 ◼ ► 300 and up keyboards if they added the function row a bunch of people would buy it just to get the function row
01:52:03 ◼ ► Obviously a 2023 or beyond sort of thing. Yeah, that's just the decision they made not to turn over those
01:52:09 ◼ ► I mean, it's on level it's good right because like don't make me buy another one of those but on another level
01:52:17 ◼ ► I would too and I also think most people would under it'd be better to have one that you have to reach under
01:52:21 ◼ ► The iPad to get to then not have it at all. Sure. So hopefully Apple is taking that to heart
01:52:26 ◼ ► I know that these briefings that we get are off the record and I agree I always agree and I'm gonna risk
01:52:36 ◼ ► Quoting somebody from Apple, but one of the people I was in the briefing with asked whether the new iPad regular iPads
01:52:53 ◼ ► Which I thought was and we all laughed but it is it's only so if you thought that the probe magic keyboards only being available
01:53:01 ◼ ► In a white and black or space gray or whatever. They call graphite whatever it's now that's limiting
01:53:06 ◼ ► This one's only white on the way it carries forward one of the least favorite and to me baffling and least Apple like
01:53:17 ◼ ► Which is the fact that the right the left bracket key is a full-size key and the right bracket key is a half-size
01:53:31 ◼ ► Curly bracket curly brace or whatever you want to call it left one full-size right one half-size
01:53:42 ◼ ► I find this decision to be so baffling and on Apple like that clearly these two keys are
01:53:49 ◼ ► Siblings that should be given equal weight because anytime you use one you eventually need to use the other
01:54:02 ◼ ► Numerous keys need to be smaller than they would be because it is a compressed because of the aspect ratio of the screen
01:54:12 ◼ ► Than even a 13 inch MacBook Air and they're committed to keeping the letter the letters and numbers
01:54:27 ◼ ► Three quarter size right right and there are three quarter size keys on this like the option key
01:54:43 ◼ ► But well, and there's the backslash bar key there too. They could take all three of those and make them
01:54:58 ◼ ► Whether they'd each be two-thirds or each be three-quarters or even if they were both half
01:55:07 ◼ ► But they should be the same size the asymmetry of those two keys for a company that is obsessed with symmetry
01:55:16 ◼ ► I honestly find that to be the most surprising one of the most surprising design decisions
01:55:20 ◼ ► They've ever made and I can't believe they didn't take a chance to correct it here, but they didn't
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01:58:23 ◼ ► I get home stretch and just talk about iPad OS but if you have any other things about these the hardware
01:58:32 ◼ ► They all are kind of reasonable and then you look at the big picture and you're like why did that happen?
01:58:40 ◼ ► But yeah, it's I'd really like I guess this would be my wrap-up is I think the 10th generation iPad is great
01:58:50 ◼ ► Person or something like you can do anything with that thing if you're looking for like a compact writing device or something like that
01:58:56 ◼ ► You don't really need an iPad Pro for that or even an iPad air you could be out there with this thing. That's fairly small
01:59:03 ◼ ► You get the keyboard thing and I don't love the kickstand but like 700 bucks. That's your low-cost Apple laptop
01:59:14 ◼ ► The only thing I would say that that makes me sad about it is that keyboard does require the kickstand
01:59:31 ◼ ► Magic keyboard and let you choose which one you wanted if you'd rather have this or not
01:59:36 ◼ ► And one of the reasons they made it two pieces. It's clearly didn't have to be two pieces
01:59:47 ◼ ► There there's definitely use and and there it it'll fit better on like an airplane tray table
01:59:53 ◼ ► then a magic keyboard would write that if you just leave the keyboard in your bag and just put the back on and you've got a
02:00:04 ◼ ► And it folds all the way around you can put the keyboard on the other way backwards and it'll reject the keys
02:00:16 ◼ ► but I do wish it worked with both because if you really want a laptop that you can like use on your actual lap or
02:00:33 ◼ ► So, oh the other thing I guess we didn't talk about the colors. I think the colors are terrific. They look great
02:00:40 ◼ ► Yeah, they sent me yellow, but I saw all of them in person in New York, and I thought they were all terrific
02:00:53 ◼ ► I would have thought that's weird, but I really like it. Yeah, it's super yellowy gold. Basically. It's really nice
02:01:04 ◼ ► They're really good Apple has this tendency to come out with colors on their products sometimes that are a little too subtle
02:01:11 ◼ ► even the iPad air is like that and these are not subtle and I love it and I wish that Apple would have a
02:01:16 ◼ ► broader color palette for all of its products where it accepts that some people want them to be subtle and some people don't and instead
02:01:26 ◼ ► Can't be colored anything but subtly and low end products can be bright and exciting which is I think it's too bad
02:01:32 ◼ ► But yeah, these they look great. Like you will not be sad if you buy a blue iPad 10th generation
02:01:43 ◼ ► Well, it'll be out by the time this podcast is out. So and along with iOS 16.1, but that's not nowhere near as big a deal
02:01:57 ◼ ► I've been using it for months on my iPad and they've relented. I don't know if I've mentioned this on any recent episode
02:02:22 ◼ ► In the house ready to pop for when this hits everybody who's been reluctant to try the betas
02:02:28 ◼ ► You know and people get their first taste of stage manager on iPad OS and not because I think it's a disaster
02:02:35 ◼ ► I actually this to me it's what's interesting is I think there are clearly problems with it
02:02:40 ◼ ► I don't think it's been I don't think it's really ready. I don't I think hopefully they keep cooking. Yeah how it works
02:02:59 ◼ ► Disparaging and then they relented and said you know what never mind. We're not gonna do it
02:03:09 ◼ ► Fearsomely, I don't know what word to describe it as I did because I really thought it was a disaster if they shipped it
02:03:35 ◼ ► And I think some people might be very happy. I think I think it's gonna be very bifurcating when it comes out
02:03:40 ◼ ► I think there's gonna be some people who get it and you and they're like I love it. This is great
02:03:45 ◼ ► I can't believe all of you people who've been complaining about it for months about the betas. You're just a bunch of
02:03:51 ◼ ► Grumpy grippers looking to complain. This is terrific. And then I think there's gonna be other people who are like, I can't believe Apple shipped this
02:04:02 ◼ ► So if you don't like it, you can just turn it off and not use it and the old the old split-screen
02:04:05 ◼ ► Multitasking thing is still there. They didn't take it away, which they could have done, right?
02:04:10 ◼ ► They could have been like everything's got windows now. Good luck everybody and they didn't do that
02:04:22 ◼ ► They ran out of time and they're shipping it and I think the key and I was thinking about this as I wrote my Mac OS
02:04:37 ◼ ► Right, like here it is and then like even the original iPad multitasking everybody's like, but what about this and this very obvious things?
02:04:48 ◼ ► Silence for two years and then they fix them and there's a bunch of stuff in Mac OS and iPad OS and stage manager
02:05:14 ◼ ► I feel like a teacher that's sort of where I ended up with my Mac OS review too is like see me after class
02:05:19 ◼ ► It's like this is an incomplete. You need to keep working on it. You're not done with your job. So I hope that
02:05:26 ◼ ► Looking at stage manager and the system settings in Mac OS and a bunch of these kind of features and being like, okay
02:05:52 ◼ ► everybody's just gonna turn it off and forget that it existed or at least a lot of people are and
02:06:05 ◼ ► It's from Steve Trotton Smith the developer. Mm-hmm, and he has a lot of experience with Windows systems as well
02:06:10 ◼ ► So he knows how they're like the tiling works on Windows and he says the iPad doesn't doesn't really match up and I don't love
02:06:23 ◼ ► Which is here's what you could do make stage creation manual. So with it isn't creating stages all the time
02:06:35 ◼ ► So so they don't all auto rearrange which is one of my great frustrations is you gave us
02:06:40 ◼ ► Arbitrary windows and then said they can't be arbitrary, right? Why make that decision?
02:06:50 ◼ ► Steve says new windows should always be created by default in the current stage not spawning a new stage
02:07:04 ◼ ► Which sure and then put together an API package supporting stage manager, but like his list there. I
02:07:10 ◼ ► Mean it really goes to the heart of what I find frustrating about stage manager is I can't get the windows where I want to
02:07:21 ◼ ► They open in weird places that take me away from my work and then I have to spend time dragging everything back around
02:07:26 ◼ ► like it's all the pieces are there but there's just a bunch of detail work that needs to be done and I
02:07:33 ◼ ► Really? Hope that Apple is gonna spend the next six months doing the detail work because that's my that's my overall feeling about stage
02:07:52 ◼ ► We have a problem, but if Apple is gonna keep working on it. All right, that's then that's fine. Let's do that
02:08:03 ◼ ► understanding of that and I have to invent windowing on iPad OS right max stage manager has some issues but like they have
02:08:10 ◼ ► Decades of windowing right? Whereas the iPad has none none. They had to invent all windowing to do this feature
02:08:20 ◼ ► pure programming work right like just to do it is a lot of work for the programmers to actually just
02:08:57 ◼ ► It never existed before right and but then the other aspect is that play testing aspect
02:09:12 ◼ ► You're I don't think there's I'm quite certain. There's never been a game that's been invented purely just by writing the rules
02:09:28 ◼ ► you've got to play it and then oh, you know what this it would be better if we did blind like
02:09:33 ◼ ► We don't have time to get into baseball and who knows where my Yankees are gonna be by the time this podcast comes out on Monday
02:09:40 ◼ ► but but for example, I was just reading about the history of baseball and Aaron judge and the home run record and
02:09:51 ◼ ► You got five balls instead of four balls and the pitchers mound was only 50 feet away instead of 60 feet away
02:09:57 ◼ ► And it's like they figured things out like oh, that's way too close because once we found people who really can pitch that's too close
02:10:06 ◼ ► We'll make it for you need to adjust rules for a game or a card game or a board game or a video game
02:10:13 ◼ ► You got to start playing it and then you figure out what's wrong and when you're designing an interface system like this you got it
02:10:30 ◼ ► You have to kind of live with it and let many people live with it and then sort of figure out
02:10:38 ◼ ► Where the leaks are pour water all over the roof and see what leaks and then patch it and adjust it and tweak the rules
02:11:08 ◼ ► But that basically they're not saying to anybody who's perfectly happy with the way Mac
02:11:13 ◼ ► Windowing works now that you have to change anything at all or even know that it exists
02:11:21 ◼ ► Stage manager might be for you and that's what it's designed for right but on iPad it's going the other way, right?
02:11:28 ◼ ► It's on the Mac. It's like a simplified decluttering way of using your Mac on the iPad. It's intended to be a
02:11:48 ◼ ► I don't think anybody's really quite knows what it should be that list that you just read from
02:12:00 ◼ ► I don't think I accept for their decision that it was going to ship this fall which they are responsible for and here it is
02:12:06 ◼ ► But hopefully they don't stop pushing the idea forward just because it's officially out
02:12:16 ◼ ► But if I had a trouble point that I wanted to cite about what Apple's been doing the last few years in software
02:12:37 ◼ ► They're more confident in their ability to ship a feature and have people like it and have it be good
02:12:46 ◼ ► Mmm, because you ideally right and they get that it's great that they listen to people, right?
02:13:01 ◼ ► Shouldn't there be enough of a filter on the inside for the people who say oh, this is a bad idea
02:13:11 ◼ ► Like what was their confidence level that like, oh, we've got this solved. We've totally got this figured out. We're gonna ship it this fall
02:13:16 ◼ ► It's gonna be great because whoever had that confidence. I think it was misplaced and I don't know whether it's about
02:13:23 ◼ ► Issues with the work environment. I don't know whether it's somebody making decisions who's not listening to other people on their staff or
02:13:31 ◼ ► People are telling them what they want to hear but that troubles me a little bit that Apple is making these events in June
02:13:43 ◼ ► Then discovering that it's way more complicated than they thought and that troubles me a little bit
02:13:53 ◼ ► Yeah, so let's not announce it and they haven't done that two years in a row now with a major feature
02:13:57 ◼ ► Yeah, the other thing and I know I saw some other tweets from Steven trout and Smith over the weekend where he had like
02:14:03 ◼ ► Animated or better of their movies or gifts or what but just comparing moving three windows around on iPad with stage manager versus
02:14:13 ◼ ► And I know enough about windows modern windows to know this that the one thing that windows I think is clearly better than
02:14:46 ◼ ► Panel, that's the full height and sticks to the borders and drag it towards the middle to untile it and make it a thing
02:15:11 ◼ ► putting content from two different windows side by side are on the same screen and that there's no
02:15:40 ◼ ► OS that you were going to make there wouldn't be split-screen. It's somehow now they've incurred
02:15:47 ◼ ► I'll call it technical debt, but it's like technical user interface debt by having had this split-screen mode that they actually can't get
02:16:08 ◼ ► It's very unnatural to me and very I don't know how to explain to somebody when they would want to use split view and when
02:16:17 ◼ ► Well, right and you go to all this effort to have two windows be side by side and it's like well, wait a second
02:16:23 ◼ ► That's just split view and in fact if you turn off if you're in that mode and you turn off stage manager
02:16:28 ◼ ► It just goes into split view. So it's like it's actually split view behind the scene, right? And yeah, it comes back to my big
02:16:34 ◼ ► complaint which I think is gonna even be more when they turn on external display support, which is I think fundamentally
02:16:41 ◼ ► They're trying to have it both ways where they want. It's like well, we're gonna give you max style windows
02:16:45 ◼ ► But we're gonna control where they go and what sizes they can and what sizes they can be and like I try to make a window
02:17:07 ◼ ► I have to say if you're gonna make max style windows, you don't get to play iPad games and say well
02:17:17 ◼ ► You got to let me make them whatever size I want and put them wherever I want. You have to do that
02:17:23 ◼ ► Like why didn't you just do tiling like windows at that point if we're gonna do that because the beauty of Mac windowing I
02:17:43 ◼ ► And you can move it where you want and you use it and then you say oh now I want to be in that window
02:17:50 ◼ ► I know it's not neat but it's like it works really well and has worked really well for decades
02:17:59 ◼ ► Make them the size you want or put them where you want. It just the system just won't allow you
02:18:06 ◼ ► Like it's like why would you go to this trouble of making windows and then say oh, but you can't control them
02:18:12 ◼ ► Like why would you do that? And yet that's where we are with stage manager on the iPad. I don't get it
02:18:32 ◼ ► You can't control them. That's our compromise. It's like I don't know why we're what we're even doing here
02:18:38 ◼ ► Well, I always like to say it's one of my favorite recurring things that I like to hammer
02:18:58 ◼ ► even if the all three of them seem like they go together and aren't in conflict with each other and
02:19:14 ◼ ► I mean, I don't know this but I'll throw Craig Federighi under the bus and I kind of cuz it just feels like
02:19:34 ◼ ► Well by turning on stage manager, right that using stage manager is optional on both Mac and iPad
02:19:41 ◼ ► One of the goals should be to avoid clutter and I think that's truly an admirable idea for this feature on both platforms
02:19:51 ◼ ► It's such a high priority on iPad that it's what makes these awkward restrictions that they won't
02:20:10 ◼ ► Day where he was trying to figure it out on his iPad and the one scenario he got into he had like a window on
02:20:21 ◼ ► Then there's like this two-thirds height gap on the right side of the screen and he wanted to make this other window
02:20:32 ◼ ► It's like an obvious space to be filled to have three windows and three windows. It wasn't like a contrived
02:20:44 ◼ ► web browser on the left a video playing in the top right and you'd want notes in the in that two-thirds height gap in the
02:20:53 ◼ ► Take notes of the stuff that's in the email on the left as you watch this video and you there was no way to make
02:20:59 ◼ ► The window fill the gap it and it's obvious that it should be I'll point out that on the Mac if you do picture-in-picture
02:21:09 ◼ ► I believe it's the command key. You can drag the picture-in-picture window anywhere you want
02:21:29 ◼ ► But like it is my device and if I want it in that corner and if I want it to be this size
02:21:51 ◼ ► it's go back to 1984 at the original Mac and why they called it the desktop and why they called it a desktop metaphor and
02:22:06 ◼ ► Documents files actually looked like pieces of paper with dog-eared corner to show that it's a document
02:22:18 ◼ ► Position them wherever you wanted to on screen right down to and wherever you let go of the mouse as you moved it
02:22:26 ◼ ► It was revolutionary at the time that there were certainly like word processors that could open three documents at a time
02:22:34 ◼ ► But you couldn't see all three at the same time and how you switched was different between each one and here you could arrange your
02:22:41 ◼ ► Tiled down into the left and you could see them and click them and you couldn't magically show on a tiny 9-inch Mac display
02:22:48 ◼ ► you couldn't see the full width of multiple ones at the same time, but you could see the windows and how they were ordered and
02:22:55 ◼ ► If you kept opening windows, yes, you'd have too many and it would be tough to manage them
02:23:02 ◼ ► But that was because you opened them but everything was where you put it with stage manager on iPad
02:23:10 ◼ ► somehow magnetic and there's magnets on your desk and you're trying to move the paper you want a piece of paper or an index card right
02:23:18 ◼ ► Here and every time you put it where you want it the magnet in your desk slides it over to the right more and it's always
02:23:24 ◼ ► Over on the edge of your desk and you're like no, I just want to put this index card where I've got these phone numbers
02:23:29 ◼ ► I just want it right here and every time you let go of it. It just flies over to the side of your desk
02:23:34 ◼ ► It's maddening and it's like it like you said it'd be great if it's optional and there was like a button
02:23:42 ◼ ► But if you are a button you could press so that you could just put it wherever you want. I don't know it's
02:23:47 ◼ ► For lack of a better word. It's too un-mac like on iPad and I don't want iPad to become Mac OS
02:23:59 ◼ ► restrictions of stage manager on iPad OS art should be more Mac like in terms of giving you
02:24:05 ◼ ► Some way to get precision control to say I know what I'm doing. I want this window exactly here, right?
02:24:11 ◼ ► It's like they're giving you they say congratulations. We're giving you absolute freedom and then with their next breath
02:24:17 ◼ ► They're like, but you can't have it. You actually can't and like I said, I don't understand the point
02:24:30 ◼ ► Yes, because because it turns out that the a mess of windows on your screen isn't is actually it's messy
02:24:38 ◼ ► Productive it's a good productivity tool for a lot of people and then if they want to tidy it up and put it in different
02:24:46 ◼ ► But you got to give people the freedom to do that and right now stage manager feels like a yeah
02:24:54 ◼ ► Desire to override and control everything kind of came back in and you end up with a feature
02:24:59 ◼ ► That's just it's neither fish nor fowl right now. It needs more freedom at least optionally and
02:25:07 ◼ ► I really hope they keep working on it and keep trying to figure it out because the worst thing for the
02:25:11 ◼ ► Platform as a whole would be that for Apple to act like they had solved it and walk away
02:25:21 ◼ ► People toggle it and they're like, why would I do this and that nothing happened? Hopefully not I hope and I again
02:25:29 ◼ ► Reasons for them to pursue it isn't just that it's the right thing to do in the abstract but that there's clearly so much enthusiasm
02:25:43 ◼ ► Yes, so hopefully they listen. All right, I'm gonna call it a wrap. I have one last thing
02:25:47 ◼ ► I want to mention I got to say it while you're on the show. Have you seen the other Letterman show on Netflix?
02:26:00 ◼ ► Fantastic. I'm so glad it is and I but yet as a huge letterman fan somehow I did we did the same thing
02:26:08 ◼ ► We're I I even saw it there in the Netflix suggestions and I was like, yeah, I don't know what that is
02:26:20 ◼ ► It is you know how they make like deconstructed meals where they take all the ingredients and they put them out separately and all that
02:26:27 ◼ ► Mm-hmm. I feel like Letterman is essentially deconstructing his show into other shows on Netflix
02:26:38 ◼ ► That's the big star who comes on your talk show and you talk to them, but this is literally
02:26:42 ◼ ► Him taking obviously inspired I think by his experience with Johnny Carson and then doing it on his show. He's taking
02:26:58 ◼ ► Do they so he comes out and does his monologue they come out and do their stand-up and then he
02:27:04 ◼ ► Invites them over to the couch and they have a little bit of chat and it's like 20 minutes long and he did this
02:27:11 ◼ ► So they obviously recorded these over a very short period of time one night two nights. I don't know not too much
02:27:20 ◼ ► They're really good because he gets to show off a comedian that he thinks is worth hearing from and he gets to chat with them
02:27:34 ◼ ► The overhead of them having to do a whole Netflix special and the answer is David Letterman asked them to come on and do five
02:27:42 ◼ ► Really love his monologues, which to me have much more of an old 80s late-night with David Letterman feel there is something to it
02:28:00 ◼ ► But I was like, this is really more like old young Dave is humor in the style and the pace and it's like man
02:28:24 ◼ ► That just I think that's hilarious that David Letterman son is all like you like yours and mine
02:28:30 ◼ ► Yeah, a freshman in college this fall. That's amazing. That's bizarre. I've never would have expected it when I first became a Letterman fan
02:28:45 ◼ ► I'm actually I feel good that you're not like oh, yeah, I watched it three months ago and noticed it
02:28:55 ◼ ► I would toss it to you in case you hadn't seen it and as a suggestion out there for everybody to watch it is it's
02:29:19 ◼ ► 18 19 20 minutes and then you can then you're like, yeah, that was funny and I'll go to bed and also
02:29:28 ◼ ► Yeah, when I was in high school, I taped late night with David Letterman and watched a lot of it
02:29:40 ◼ ► So often what I would end up doing is watch the Letterman monologue and if I didn't like the celebrity guests
02:29:50 ◼ ► What if it was just monologue and they he used to do a comedy bit at the desk afterward
02:29:54 ◼ ► But it's like monologue comedian chat with comedian and you're out and it takes 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah, it was a real throwback
02:30:00 ◼ ► Yeah, so anyway, that's my recommendation. All right. I thank you for your time Jason everybody, of course
02:30:06 ◼ ► Thank you. John can read all of your stuff at six colors calm. I'm presuming on Monday when this episode comes out
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