The Talk Show

349: ‘Live From WWDC 2022’, With Craig Federighi and Greg Joswiak


00:00:00   Good afternoon and welcome to the talk show live.

00:00:06   We're coming to you in person from Apple's worldwide developer conference 2022.

00:00:14   This show is being presented at the new Apple Developer Center at Apple Park in Cupertino, California.

00:00:23   Now please welcome the Internet's favorite raconteur.

00:00:27   It's Jon Gruber!

00:00:30   [Applause]

00:00:41   Thank you, thank you.

00:00:44   Enough. I have so many things I gotta talk about. We gotta... can't waste time on applause.

00:00:51   This is actually the 10th annual the talk show live from WWDC.

00:00:58   Which I kind of can't believe.

00:01:00   Ten years ago in 2012 when I first had the idea, the notion to do it,

00:01:05   my wife and I rented, it was like an art gallery at 111 Minas Street in San Francisco.

00:01:10   Literally my guest was Cable Sasser from, my good friend from Panic.

00:01:16   And I don't know, maybe we had 70 people, something like that.

00:01:19   We didn't have cameras, we just recorded it. We just thought it'd be fun to record it with an audience.

00:01:23   And it was this little art gallery with like an L shape.

00:01:27   And over on the other side of the L, just open air, there was actually an art show going on.

00:01:34   And I really remember thinking I felt bad for them because people were laughing and there was a lot of applause.

00:01:38   And we did do the open bar. People were rowdy.

00:01:43   But you know, the show changed. We moved to Mezzanine, which is a slightly bigger place in San Francisco.

00:01:52   And wound up when WWDC moved, we moved to San Jose and the absolutely beautiful California Theater in San Jose,

00:02:01   which seats 1100 people.

00:02:04   And if you told me back when I started that I'd wind up in an 1100 seat theater doing this show,

00:02:11   I would have said, "That's pretty unlikely."

00:02:16   And if you told me that 10 years later I would be doing it in a theater on Apple's campus,

00:02:22   I would have said, "Something went really wrong with the world."

00:02:29   I think I would have been right.

00:02:32   But I am so happy to be here and I am so happy that you are all here.

00:02:37   It is unusual. Is it weird that I am, to me, do I feel weird speaking on an Apple stage?

00:02:45   Yeah, really, really weird. This is so weird.

00:02:49   But it was the only way to do a live show. There is no other way.

00:02:53   There is absolutely no other way to go through all of the protocols and all the stuff we did to make sure everybody's verified

00:03:00   negative tests and mask rules and all that.

00:03:04   There was no other way to do the show.

00:03:07   I am incredibly grateful that everyone at Apple seemed as interested in making this happen as I was.

00:03:16   So that's just terrific.

00:03:18   I have two sponsors to thank.

00:03:21   First is MacStadium.

00:03:24   For over a decade, MacStadium has provided private MacClouds built for the Apple community,

00:03:31   done the right way for developers.

00:03:33   It's an ideal sponsor for WWDC, right?

00:03:36   Well, guess what? They've sponsored the live show before. Hopefully, they'll do it again.

00:03:40   But it's the perfect audience.

00:03:42   They are focused on putting the latest Mac hardware into secure data centers, including thousands of M1 Macs.

00:03:52   And I'm pretty sure they'll be ready for the M2s as soon as that's appropriate for a data center.

00:03:58   They go fast. I mean, they work fast.

00:04:01   Their premier cloud product, Orca 2.0, is available right now.

00:04:08   And it supports virtualization of MacOS on both Intel and Apple Silicon.

00:04:14   Visit macstadium.com/thetalkshow.

00:04:20   You can learn more.

00:04:21   My second sponsor is Adams, makers of everyday shoes.

00:04:27   I'm actually wearing them now, not just because they're a sponsor, but because I wear them all the time.

00:04:33   I love them. They are comfortable. They are durable.

00:04:36   I think they look great.

00:04:39   I like black, but I always like black. Sometimes gray.

00:04:45   But they have all sorts of fun colors, really fun colors, including limited edition colorways that you can only get for a limited time.

00:04:55   They've been doing this for a couple of years. They called their first shoe the Model 0-0-0-0.

00:05:02   They've got the Model 0-0-1. I can't wait till they get up to 007, frankly.

00:05:08   But the Model 0-0-1 is coming out this week.

00:05:12   So again, perfect timing for this sponsorship.

00:05:16   You can go to adams.com/df.

00:05:22   They've got a special page set up just for people who are listening to the show or watching it on YouTube.

00:05:28   So my thanks to them.

00:05:31   So a lot has changed about my doing this show over the last 10 years.

00:05:37   I mean, it got bigger. It went to doing it over WebEx.

00:05:45   It came to Apple's campus.

00:05:47   One thing that hasn't changed, though, is that I have always kept my guests secret.

00:05:53   I just think it's more fun that way.

00:05:55   I think it's more fun for the-- I think that's part of the fun of the live audience.

00:05:58   Everybody watching, I hope thousands of people watching on YouTube when this hits later in the week, already know who the guests are.

00:06:05   But you, I hope, don't.

00:06:08   So without any further ado, please join me in welcoming to the stage

00:06:16   Craig Federighi and Greg Joswiak.

00:06:19   It's a very awkward moment.

00:06:34   You didn't tell me what shoes you'd be wearing.

00:06:37   Do I get some of the sponsorship?

00:06:39   This was not cooked.

00:06:41   If the FCC, I don't know who regulates these sponsorships, looking into this, this was not cooked.

00:06:47   Craig, I don't know what's wrong with you.

00:06:50   Yeah.

00:06:50   Very stylish.

00:06:52   Well, speaking of attire, I'm very disappointed in your attire.

00:06:57   This is pretty much what I wear.

00:07:00   I mean, I think this color, some varied in blue, always.

00:07:03   Not always, but I've seen, and I think it was a very, very sharp and stylish look.

00:07:09   It was basketball sweats.

00:07:11   That's the other thing I wear, yes.

00:07:12   So the funny thing about that bit from the keynote, which I think was hilarious,

00:07:18   was I was watching the keynote live at the special event with my dithering colleague, Ben Thompson,

00:07:27   who's a huge basketball fan.

00:07:28   And I like basketball.

00:07:29   I played basketball recreationally until I started aging out of it.

00:07:34   It looked like you have game.

00:07:38   You have form.

00:07:39   And Ben and I turned to each other and like, "Hey, I think he can actually shoot."

00:07:43   He missed like half of those, just so you know.

00:07:46   It was a long shot.

00:07:49   Yeah, it was a long shot, but come on, half at best.

00:07:51   Yeah, no, I aged out of basketball in around fourth grade.

00:07:55   Just not tall enough.

00:07:58   That's right.

00:08:00   You passed as a credible shooter.

00:08:02   Thank you.

00:08:02   Good to know.

00:08:04   Now, that outfit was an amazing thing. They told me, "We're going to have you put something on

00:08:10   and hope you can be a good sport."

00:08:14   Was a headband considered?

00:08:20   Yes, there was.

00:08:22   There was a headband.

00:08:25   Wow, you know us well.

00:08:26   And I got to say, so I'm like, "Okay, I'm game."

00:08:29   I put the headband on.

00:08:30   I go in front of the camera.

00:08:32   Jaws is in this back room monitoring the cameras.

00:08:34   If the word comes back, take off the headband.

00:08:36   It was just, I'm like, "Wow, must be bad."

00:08:42   Well, not a hard decision.

00:08:43   He does not have the hair to be constrained by a hairband.

00:08:47   Losing battle for that hairband, that's for sure.

00:08:51   I want to talk first about the event itself.

00:08:57   And I don't know what to call it because WWDC is the whole week of developer news and conferences

00:09:05   and for people who are all around the world and they're just watching online.

00:09:09   But the special event yesterday of having, I don't know,

00:09:14   it seems to me, a thousand plus developers and lots of media too.

00:09:23   It was to me the most remarkable event professionally in my career.

00:09:28   I really thought it was unbelievably.

00:09:31   I'm just curious what you guys thought about how the day went.

00:09:34   Well, I'll tell you, what was the most amazing to me

00:09:37   is developers flew from all over the world to be here.

00:09:42   I mean, you talk to them.

00:09:42   You talk to people from Indonesia.

00:09:44   "Hi, I'm from India."

00:09:45   "Hi, I'm from the Ukraine."

00:09:47   It's remarkable.

00:09:49   And look, we all read a bunch of crap in the news.

00:09:53   And I know I'm probably not the first one to say this,

00:09:56   but you start to listen to politicians in Washington

00:09:58   and you might get a distorted view of the world.

00:09:59   And I think yesterday was an example of really what our relationship is like with developers

00:10:07   and how important that relationship is for them with us and with us with them.

00:10:12   And that so many of them would choose to fly halfway around the world

00:10:17   to come be here for an event like this.

00:10:20   And to me, that was so reaffirming.

00:10:24   And we have this amazing developer team.

00:10:25   Some of them are here in the audience.

00:10:27   To quote my favorite football coach, that Susan and her team approached this with an enthusiasm

00:10:35   previously unknown to mankind when it comes to serving developers.

00:10:41   And you got a flavor for that yesterday, I think.

00:10:46   Yeah, I thought we've been missing something for the last couple of years.

00:10:50   I mean, it was always so special to get together.

00:10:54   And I mean, part of it is talking about the things we talk about.

00:10:58   And I think actually for that, it's tough to let go of the video format

00:11:04   because we're able to really craft the stories.

00:11:08   But we all sense, even if that works, and even if we're getting the content out well,

00:11:15   to get the community together was something we missed so much.

00:11:19   And it was amazing, even when the prospect was come out and watch a film with us,

00:11:25   how the community really felt the same way we did with like, let's get together.

00:11:30   And it was great.

00:11:31   Yeah, I'll give Craig credit because he's one of the ones who pushed for it.

00:11:34   Because we do so well with these online presentations.

00:11:38   Come on, you know, WWCE used to be a matter of ringing a few thousand,

00:11:42   but thousands of developers out to San Francisco or San Jose, depending on the years.

00:11:48   And we have an incredible event.

00:11:51   But when COVID hit, we changed the way we had to do business.

00:11:54   And we changed obviously to these video, not just keynotes, but sessions.

00:11:59   And they've been incredibly well received.

00:12:02   The developer satisfaction for them is incredibly high.

00:12:06   And millions and millions of developers engage that week and after.

00:12:11   And so that's hard to give up.

00:12:13   But Craig and a few others were like, but we need that connection.

00:12:16   We need that conversation, that exchanging ideas, like Tim said,

00:12:20   the things that you can only do in person.

00:12:22   And boy, it felt good.

00:12:23   Yeah.

00:12:24   I had a similar experience.

00:12:25   I came in on Saturday instead of Sunday.

00:12:28   And then Sunday, I didn't know what to do with myself.

00:12:30   And I was actually staying at a hotel right here near campus.

00:12:34   And I just went for a walk, right?

00:12:36   I mean, what do you do?

00:12:37   You go for a walk, see what's going on.

00:12:39   And there's one person on the sidewalk, one person, like 11 o'clock Sunday morning.

00:12:45   It's Cable Sasser.

00:12:46   Where are you going, Cable?

00:12:53   He was going to register.

00:12:54   And I said, oh, I'll come with you.

00:12:55   Media registration wasn't until Monday.

00:12:58   But I was like, I'll just go hang out.

00:13:00   The visitor center on Sunday was amazing.

00:13:04   And I do get recognized at the one time of the year that I go--

00:13:10   I live 51 weeks of the year in Philadelphia, and nobody knows who I am.

00:13:15   And I come to WWDC, and people know me.

00:13:19   But that's great.

00:13:19   And I love it when people come up and say hi.

00:13:21   But it was so different this time, because I'd really forgotten what that's like.

00:13:27   And I'm not a hugger, or at least I wasn't pre-COVID.

00:13:32   But I'm hugging people.

00:13:34   I'm like-- and again, I met people from Qatar, Dubai, Brazil.

00:13:39   I had the exact same thought as you, Jaws.

00:13:41   And they were all so happy.

00:13:45   And everybody's emotions were flushed faces, tears in the eyes, and just joy, joy.

00:13:55   And I really think that you can think about things.

00:14:01   You can think about what it's like to hug or kiss somebody you love.

00:14:05   But it's totally different than the experience of doing it.

00:14:08   And so you can think about, yeah, yeah, I miss the community.

00:14:11   But then when the community's back together, it hits.

00:14:15   And it was really remarkable.

00:14:18   And I thought the event was just great.

00:14:20   I can't believe-- half the people I know also got terrible sunburns.

00:14:25   It was a very sunny day.

00:14:29   But the screen was amazing.

00:14:30   You had to-- how can this sun be this bright and you can see this perfectly?

00:14:34   It was almost surreal.

00:14:35   There was this giant Susan Prescott on the SOTU.

00:14:39   Volume was the same, but it was--

00:14:43   I also-- it was really neat that they were giving tours of this building.

00:14:55   This is the new developer center.

00:14:57   And I got to take that tour.

00:14:59   But I also heard from the developers who had taken it on Sunday.

00:15:04   And they were like, oh, you got to go.

00:15:05   You got to go see it.

00:15:06   And they're like, hey, is that where your show is going to be?

00:15:08   And I'm like, I don't know.

00:15:11   Who are your guests?

00:15:14   I don't know.

00:15:15   Well, and this is a brand new building.

00:15:18   We're just unveiling it.

00:15:19   I mean, we've hosted developers for years.

00:15:21   But I don't know if you ever got hosted at Back in Infinite Loop.

00:15:24   But it felt like taking developers into a cage.

00:15:27   There would be these interior conference rooms,

00:15:29   which is kind of the nicest thing you could say about.

00:15:32   No windows.

00:15:32   Sometimes developers would stay there day and night for a long time.

00:15:37   It's like, it's not very humane.

00:15:39   And we've upped the level here.

00:15:41   This is an experience that, instead of just the developer briefing center,

00:15:45   we have this.

00:15:45   We have this room.

00:15:46   We have these incredible soundproof rooms where developers can work confidentially

00:15:50   and work on their stuff and engage not just with our developer group,

00:15:54   but right across the street from Apple Park,

00:15:55   where we have Craig and his engineers.

00:15:57   And when necessary, our hardware engineers.

00:15:59   They're all across the street.

00:16:00   So it's a spectacular opportunity for our developers and our engineers

00:16:05   and our developer team to all interact definitely in a much better way

00:16:09   than we could in the past.

00:16:10   I think it emblemizes-- the three of us have talked about the same issue of,

00:16:18   does Apple care about third-party developers?

00:16:21   And people who want to answer that question,

00:16:27   yes, Apple does not care about them.

00:16:29   You blah, blah, blah.

00:16:30   This reason, that reason, and the other reason.

00:16:31   Why does this building exist?

00:16:35   I mean, it's a physical manifestation to me of the best of Apple's attitude

00:16:42   towards developers.

00:16:43   Yeah.

00:16:43   Look, the iPhone changed the world.

00:16:47   We know that.

00:16:48   But it did it in combination with the App Store.

00:16:51   It did it in combination with apps.

00:16:53   Again, people forget what software distribution was like before the App Store.

00:16:59   You're old enough to know.

00:17:01   But to get software out in the market was tough.

00:17:05   You had to find a publisher.

00:17:06   The publisher took a cut.

00:17:07   Channel took a cut.

00:17:08   You had to make the goods.

00:17:10   In the end of the day, the developers left with very little.

00:17:14   And we wanted to create a safe and trustworthy place

00:17:17   where developers could reach all customers with much more beneficial economics

00:17:23   and level the playing field between big and small.

00:17:26   And look again, going back to my point of sometimes

00:17:30   people are telling a distorted story.

00:17:31   It was an economic miracle.

00:17:32   It has created millions and millions of jobs around the world.

00:17:37   There were too many jobs in the United States alone

00:17:39   driven by our app economy.

00:17:41   It's worked.

00:17:42   And it's worked for those developers.

00:17:43   It's worked for customers.

00:17:45   And obviously, it's worked for us.

00:17:47   It's worked for everybody.

00:17:47   It's one of those win-win-win.

00:17:49   We're very proud of it.

00:17:51   And developers are part of the lifeblood.

00:17:53   And to your point, that's why we have things like this and this conference.

00:17:56   [END PLAYBACK]

00:17:57   I will tell you the pushback from longtime Mac indie developers I know on that point,

00:18:04   which is that in between the physical distribution era

00:18:08   and going through Ingram Micro or whoever, you had to take 60%

00:18:13   before they sent it to a retailer who took another 50%

00:18:17   and left you with a sliver of the sales.

00:18:19   In the early 2000 to iPhone era, when Mac OS X was Mac OS X,

00:18:31   there was a thriving market of indie developers

00:18:36   who weren't going through physical-- they were just direct downloads

00:18:39   with direct sales on their website.

00:18:42   But I think the difference is just the number of developers in today's world

00:18:52   who came here from around the world and how quickly WWDC sells out now.

00:18:58   Tickets are gone.

00:18:58   Right?

00:18:59   Back in that era, you could just take a week

00:19:02   and decide whether you wanted to go to WWDC.

00:19:04   I mean, the last time before you guys had the lottery,

00:19:06   it was, I think, like a minute.

00:19:07   There was like--

00:19:08   [END PLAYBACK]

00:19:08   Yeah.

00:19:09   Right.

00:19:09   Yeah.

00:19:11   I think what's so exciting about the world that really the iPhone

00:19:15   and the App Store ushered in is there is just this trusted community now

00:19:22   where thinking to buy an app is not a big decision.

00:19:28   My kids do it virtually without thinking about it.

00:19:33   People buy-- the number of apps that people buy today on average compared

00:19:39   to even during the, you want to say, the heyday of--

00:19:43   and even today what you'd see from web downloads on desktop platforms.

00:19:47   There's just no comparison because people know they have a platform they can trust,

00:19:51   a source that they can trust, a vibrant developer community.

00:19:55   And that whole thing has just been working so wonderfully for everyone.

00:19:59   And I'll just say from the point of view of us in software,

00:20:05   building these platforms, these APIs, we see it as just this amazing opportunity

00:20:14   to both lift the developer and the user community.

00:20:18   You know, we're platform first and the other experiences we build second

00:20:25   because that sort of lifts all the boats.

00:20:29   And I thought it was very funny.

00:20:30   I read something where someone was saying, oh, well, we noticed you

00:20:33   introduced a lot of APIs.

00:20:35   Is that because you're reacting to European regulators saying something about you?

00:20:40   I'm like, have you not been watching our conferences for the last how many years?

00:20:43   This is what we do.

00:20:46   And it's a privilege to be able to do it.

00:20:49   So let's get to some of the news front that was announced yesterday and one that really

00:20:54   caught my eye and is perfect for revisiting because we talked about this,

00:20:58   I think the last time-- yeah, 2019.

00:21:03   So it'd be the last time we did this face to face was when SwiftUI and Catalyst were

00:21:10   announced at the same year.

00:21:12   And I tried to get you to answer which one's the way to go.

00:21:17   And what caught my eye in the State of the Union yesterday was, to me, an unambiguous

00:21:24   slide.

00:21:25   I'm quoting directly.

00:21:27   The best way to build an app is with Swift and SwiftUI.

00:21:31   Yeah.

00:21:33   That seems like a change in messaging in terms of commitment to this is the way forward.

00:21:39   Yeah, I think we-- back when we last spoke in 2019, the future direction, where the arrow

00:21:47   was pointing, was clear.

00:21:49   And we've been marching on that vector ever since.

00:21:53   I think all of these technologies-- and I hope I said it at the time-- were relevant

00:22:01   then and remain relevant now.

00:22:03   And so depending on where you are as a developer, the right mix of technologies for you at this

00:22:08   moment in time could be quite different.

00:22:10   We build a lot of, of course, UIKit apps.

00:22:14   We build a lot of native AppKit apps.

00:22:16   We build, now on the Mac, a lot of Catalyst apps that I think are excellent.

00:22:21   And the Mac now has a richer set of first-party apps because of Catalyst.

00:22:25   We depend on that capability, and we continue to build out that framework and make it

00:22:31   more and more capable.

00:22:32   But increasingly, as we build new things, as we build new UIs, we're building them with

00:22:38   SwiftUI when we have the opportunity to do something new.

00:22:43   And this year, one of the things we announced is we're making it ever easier to even take

00:22:49   little pieces of your app, even the cells that you put in a collection view, and say,

00:22:54   you know, this piece would be so great to do in SwiftUI because it's great for that.

00:22:58   I don't have to rethink my overall app architecture,

00:23:01   but I can just fit this in.

00:23:02   And of course, developers have been building widgets now and watch complications in SwiftUI.

00:23:07   So it's becoming a part of almost many, many apps and can be the complete foundation for

00:23:14   many going forward.

00:23:14   But yeah, in terms of where the arrow is pointing, absolutely.

00:23:18   I thought that SwiftUI charts-- SwiftCharts, I forget the name.

00:23:22   SwiftCharts, yeah.

00:23:23   But it seems-- I haven't really dug into it, but it seems super cool and robust.

00:23:27   But as one friend of mine-- I'm going to steal from him, but put it-- it's like a perfect

00:23:31   leaf node.

00:23:32   Like, if you already have a tree of an app-- That's right.

00:23:35   --you could just use this-- and the app might be AppKit, or maybe it's an iPhone app.

00:23:41   It's all UIKit.

00:23:41   You're not going to cut down the whole tree and rebuild this whole tree.

00:23:44   But you've got a new leaf node where SwiftCharts would be the perfect-- you need charts.

00:23:48   You can just put it right there.

00:23:50   That's absolutely right.

00:23:51   And actually, within the apps that-- the versions of the apps that we've now seeded to developers,

00:23:58   if you look inside the health app at some of those charts, that's an app that is not

00:24:03   an entirely SwiftUI app, but a bunch of those charts are SwiftCharts.

00:24:07   If you look at the weather app, now available on iPad--

00:24:10   [LAUGHTER]

00:24:11   Ed-- yes.

00:24:13   Come on.

00:24:15   [APPLAUSE]

00:24:17   And Mac, I should point out.

00:24:18   Now available on Mac as well, and I use it on Mac as well.

00:24:21   The rich set of charts now in there-- SwiftCharts, right, fitting into this app.

00:24:26   So yeah, I think for every developer, it's got to be-- maybe it starts as just one of

00:24:31   the arrows in their quiver as they build out different parts of their app.

00:24:34   And eventually, they find they build more and more.

00:24:36   What is it about SwiftUI, though, that-- what I'm hearing and what that unambiguous slide

00:24:43   says to me is 10 years down the road, after another 10 years of these talk shows, there's

00:24:49   going to be-- what I'm hearing from you is there are going to be, by that time, a lot

00:24:53   more all SwiftUI apps.

00:24:55   I think that's right.

00:24:56   I think that's right.

00:24:56   And why do you think that is?

00:24:58   I think it's a real catalyst for creativity.

00:25:05   I was talking to a developer yesterday from the design awards and was saying, what's your

00:25:12   process?

00:25:13   And he said, I'm doing everything now in SwiftUI.

00:25:17   And I get an idea, and I can sit down in an hour, try it out, feel it out, get the gist

00:25:25   of it.

00:25:26   And that is-- that's what sparks innovation, right, that you feel that close to taking

00:25:34   a thought and turning it into an app and then building it out.

00:25:37   And the fact that we have live previews, that the turnaround is so fast, that the UI is

00:25:42   so flexible that it retargets other platforms so immediately, I mean, it's just-- you're

00:25:47   piling gains on top of gains.

00:25:49   And I think it brings just a ton of joy to development.

00:25:55   When I have spare time, I sit down and write apps in SwiftUI just for fun, because it's

00:26:01   just fun.

00:26:03   I watch TV.

00:26:04   Everyone can code, Josh.

00:26:09   We could go-- if we had an extra hour, we could spend a whole hour talking about severance.

00:26:15   Yes, let's do it.

00:26:17   Any severance fans in the audience?

00:26:19   I don't want to go off on-- but I just cried.

00:26:25   I described that show to my wife, and she's just generally not a science fiction fan.

00:26:30   And she was like-- and I was like, let's just give it a chance.

00:26:33   She loved it more than I did.

00:26:34   It's amazing.

00:26:35   It's such a great show.

00:26:35   Really good.

00:26:36   You know what, though?

00:26:37   But one of the other things-- and I think people-- some people misunderstand how committed

00:26:44   you guys are to keeping everything going.

00:26:46   And I even noticed-- again, it wasn't me digging through the release notes, but a friend pointed

00:26:51   out that there's even a brand new AppKit control this year, NS combo button.

00:26:56   It's cool.

00:26:57   I've seen it.

00:26:57   It's a button where you can have a dropdown menu next to the push button and combine them

00:27:02   together.

00:27:02   So even AppKit is still-- nothing has been labeled legacy.

00:27:07   That's right.

00:27:07   That's right.

00:27:08   I think everyone's got to understand there is-- our reliance on the continued health

00:27:16   and development of all of these frameworks is greater within Apple than anywhere else

00:27:23   in the world.

00:27:24   And so we have every interest and an internal developer community that is absolutely demanding

00:27:33   of continued progress on all fronts.

00:27:36   So I don't think anyone should fear our commitment here.

00:27:39   I see why.

00:27:44   I think it makes a lot of sense that the WWDC keynote is always organized by platform.

00:27:51   iOS.

00:27:54   We've debated this.

00:27:56   Yeah.

00:27:56   You know what's funny too?

00:28:00   You come out here for the community stuff, and you talk to people, and you get to talk

00:28:03   to people face to face.

00:28:04   And you often-- I hear that all up and down from every level of the company.

00:28:09   Yeah, we thought about that.

00:28:12   Well, it's so funny though, because we talk about it because we get into the Mac section,

00:28:18   and we're talking about these enhancements to mail.

00:28:21   And at some point, the iOS section ended.

00:28:24   And people go, well, that's what's-- and in fact, even watching the coverage, people say,

00:28:28   well, so that's what's in iOS.

00:28:29   And then we get into the Mac section, and we start talking about what's new in mail.

00:28:32   All those features in mail and iOS, they're all extremely relevant there.

00:28:37   You get into the iPad section, we start talking about collaboration, how you can initiate

00:28:41   collaboration in messages and then do it in these other apps.

00:28:45   That's in Mac.

00:28:46   That's in iOS.

00:28:47   We cover it in the iPad section.

00:28:49   So we try to find the best place to highlight these developments.

00:28:54   But so much of what we're doing at this point is to the benefit of all the platforms.

00:29:01   And I think this is partly because of all the framework and technology leverage we have,

00:29:06   because we're trying to create that same kind of environment for third parties.

00:29:09   Really easy to do it once and do it everywhere.

00:29:11   We also know as users of our platform, it's pretty awesome.

00:29:16   If you like it here, you sure expect it in every device of ours that you pick up and

00:29:21   use.

00:29:21   And so we're committed to making that happen.

00:29:23   But it does create this question of, how exactly do you talk about it?

00:29:27   And JAWS always wins at its final talk.

00:29:30   [LAUGHTER]

00:29:35   I do think, though-- and I know one of the things that I also think gets overlooked about

00:29:41   Apple is how successful Apple can be at playing long games.

00:29:46   SwiftUI is clearly a long game.

00:29:51   And it was introduced in a state where it clearly wasn't ready to be used to create--

00:29:56   All apps?

00:29:58   Yeah, all apps.

00:29:59   But it has to be introduced at some point.

00:30:01   And there's a plan going forward.

00:30:03   Swift itself.

00:30:05   Right.

00:30:05   Swift itself.

00:30:06   I mean, Catalyst, that was one where we were quite explicit that we said, we're doing this

00:30:11   thing.

00:30:11   We're doing it first with these few apps.

00:30:13   Eventually, it's going to come to you, third-party developers.

00:30:16   And we kept building technologies like Metal.

00:30:20   You start here, and you invest, and you invest, and you invest.

00:30:22   And so, yeah, there are a tremendous number of long games.

00:30:27   I thought one of the long games that kind of came to fruition in this year's keynote--

00:30:32   or at least to my mind, it really seemed-- and it's exactly what we're talking about,

00:30:36   that these features apply iOS, iPad, OS, Mac OS.

00:30:41   I think not even that many years ago, it wasn't so much that everything was in sync.

00:30:50   They'd be like, well, this is what we got done this year.

00:30:53   And the iPhone is this world-changing device.

00:30:57   Might have to come first.

00:31:01   And other platforms, which were-- like the Mac, for example, was in a good spot.

00:31:08   Mac OS X was in great position by the time the name changed.

00:31:13   Well, it was Mac OS X.

00:31:16   Now it's Mac OS, but there was one--

00:31:17   It's OS X in the middle.

00:31:19   OS X.

00:31:19   I didn't like that one.

00:31:20   [LAUGHTER]

00:31:21   We fixed it.

00:31:22   You got to have Mac in the name.

00:31:24   Come on.

00:31:25   Anyway.

00:31:26   We agree.

00:31:30   But I really thought it was palpable how over and over and over again in the keynote yesterday,

00:31:37   and this is available on the other two platforms, whichever of the segments we were on.

00:31:42   And it's also mail.

00:31:44   Well, think about the-- messages would be a great example.

00:31:48   There's some apps that came to the Mac only because of Catalyst.

00:31:55   Before Catalyst, those apps weren't there.

00:31:57   There are other apps that we actually rewrote the app or built a Mac native app out of Catalyst

00:32:06   to replace a Mac app that, in the past, had we done all these messages features that we announced,

00:32:13   that the ability to edit messages and recall messages and so forth,

00:32:18   it's unclear whether they would have made it to the Mac in the same year.

00:32:23   And the fact that we invested in Catalyst, that Catalyst was then the foundation of building

00:32:28   a much better app for the messages app for the Mac that shares code across all the platforms,

00:32:33   meant that absolutely these enhancements to messages are everywhere.

00:32:35   We announced great features to Maps.

00:32:38   They are everywhere on all the platforms.

00:32:40   So this has been a vision we had a long time ago of a place we could get to.

00:32:45   But it took many, many years to build our way there.

00:32:48   And yet our philosophy is not to hold this thing in secret for seven years and then come

00:32:55   out at the end because the way you get there is to get it out there where a community can

00:32:59   start to make use of it where it makes sense for them, give you feedback, and you can build

00:33:02   on it internally.

00:33:03   But you just keep your eye on the prize.

00:33:06   Yeah, Messages is, to me, the poster child for the true potential of Catalyst.

00:33:14   And I'll tell you specifically-- maybe I mentioned it last year.

00:33:17   Does those WebEx meetings always disappear from my mind?

00:33:21   But I really thought, OK, I get why they're doing this to keep it for those reasons.

00:33:26   But there goes the AppleScript support in Messages on Mac.

00:33:29   Nope, it's all still there.

00:33:32   And the goofy AppleScript I run once a year that--

00:33:35   I don't AppleScript messages very often, but I have a few.

00:33:43   And they all worked.

00:33:44   And there it is.

00:33:47   That's what you told me you would do.

00:33:49   So I owe you a being right point.

00:33:51   [LAUGHTER]

00:33:53   First one.

00:33:54   [LAUGHTER]

00:33:58   But we have all these sessions in the conference where we talk about something like building

00:34:04   a great Catalyst app for Mac or building a great SwiftUI app for Mac.

00:34:08   And it is in part about, sure, you brought your starting point that might have been on

00:34:13   iPad, what does it mean to make it actually a great Mac app?

00:34:16   And all those other technologies are available to you.

00:34:19   And I think the developers who really love the Mac-- and I think many, many of our developers

00:34:24   do, right?

00:34:24   It's what they use to apply their craft-- want to put in the extra work to make their

00:34:29   app great for Mac.

00:34:31   And that's the thing.

00:34:32   You take that core, and you can extend it.

00:34:33   And certainly, that's our philosophy.

00:34:35   Some of the things I do want to talk about, though, are the exceptions, some of the features

00:34:39   that are specific to one platform.

00:34:43   And I think for reasons that I think make sense, the re-imagined iPhone lock screen

00:34:51   is-- the iPhone lock screen is only for the iPhone.

00:34:57   I mean, you can imagine that maybe the iPad lock screen could maybe gain similar features

00:35:02   later.

00:35:02   But it makes sense.

00:35:03   I just love that.

00:35:07   And I was so glad to see how much time you guys gave to it.

00:35:10   Because to me, one of the best things that Apple has always done and that drew me to

00:35:16   Apple computers is the approachability to users to do more than just click, click, click,

00:35:27   but actually make it their own and do something.

00:35:30   Right?

00:35:31   And you go back to HyperCard and stuff like that.

00:35:34   But there's a rich, rich history at Apple of doing that.

00:35:38   And to me, the lock screen configurability is that sort of thing.

00:35:42   It's like a LEGO construction kit for making a lock screen for you.

00:35:46   And I think it's not programming, but it is sort of designing your own software.

00:35:54   And it's something that everybody could do.

00:35:57   It went over so well.

00:35:59   I did a lot of press interviews yesterday.

00:36:01   And one of my favorites was when the journalist came to me.

00:36:04   I said, how was the show?

00:36:05   He goes, you had me at lock screen.

00:36:08   It kind of says it all.

00:36:09   I mean, it got a great reaction from the crowd here who was cheering it on and, of course,

00:36:14   what people have been writing since.

00:36:15   I think you're going to love using it.

00:36:17   On all the list of things that we all spend a lot of time talking about is to call that

00:36:23   area lock screen started to seem-- like, what do you call it, though?

00:36:28   But it is this face of your phone.

00:36:30   And that's why it is so personal.

00:36:32   It's every time you take your phone-- a bunch of phones sit on the table.

00:36:36   You can put a case on them.

00:36:37   But the which one's mine?

00:36:38   Well, it lights up with my lock screen.

00:36:41   And I think it was really some of the passion in our HI team, too, who emphasized the role

00:36:50   of personal photography and what can we do with your personal photos.

00:36:54   Because what's more personal than that?

00:36:58   But doing beautiful things with images.

00:37:04   And this is an area where, initially, through portrait mode photography and then all of

00:37:10   the work we've done on depth, we started to build a way to just make your photos that

00:37:16   much more alive and magical.

00:37:18   And we were really able to apply that here to the lock screen.

00:37:23   And I know some of mine now, and they just-- your own photos feel so special if we can

00:37:29   give them that care.

00:37:31   And it's been exciting to take these big technology areas, like all this ML investment we've made

00:37:37   in computational photography, and then be able to apply it to something that's such a beautiful

00:37:41   aesthetic experience of having your own personal lock screen photo and lock screen widgets,

00:37:47   which went over really well.

00:37:48   Yeah.

00:37:48   Well, the widgets are really part of that configurability, that toolkit of making it

00:37:55   your own.

00:37:56   And you could be a total minimalist.

00:37:58   Just keep the time.

00:37:59   Or you could have weather and-- I forget how many other widgets you guys demoed.

00:38:05   And who knows what third-party developers will come up with.

00:38:07   But if it's something you care about, a custom widget for the DevOps board at your work,

00:38:15   keep it on your lock screen.

00:38:16   I thought one of the interesting things that I drew from-- I don't know if you guys think

00:38:21   about it this way.

00:38:21   But I've thought about how the iPhone evolved from originally, the first iPhone 2007 to

00:38:28   now, and a big part of that era is all of your discussions about privacy.

00:38:35   And there's all sorts of ways that manifests.

00:38:37   But there's also the original iPhone, it was slide to unlock.

00:38:45   And you could put a passcode on it.

00:38:47   But that's not how you used phones.

00:38:49   And I think that maybe that's where they came from.

00:38:50   You just did something to unlock your phone, and the iPhone was a phone.

00:38:55   So you slid to unlock.

00:38:57   And it was the nicest looking button you've ever seen.

00:39:00   And you immediately get your first interaction with this phone is the incredible responsiveness

00:39:11   of the touchscreen.

00:39:12   And it was just so clever.

00:39:14   But then clearly, everybody sort of realized, well, I can't just leave my phone slide to

00:39:20   unlock.

00:39:21   Well, touch ID was a huge part of making that easy.

00:39:24   Because before touch ID, people did leave their phones unprotected, to your point.

00:39:28   And once we came up with touch ID, and obviously face ID later, it just became so easy to secure

00:39:34   your phone.

00:39:34   Now, who would it?

00:39:35   Now it's the exact opposite.

00:39:37   Who would leave their phone without a passcode?

00:39:39   And again, we pioneered that with what we were doing with touch ID.

00:39:43   But to me, with the new configurable lock screen, it sort of brings back the, hey, I

00:39:48   can do and see useful things on my phone without going into my phone.

00:39:53   And I agree, face ID and touch ID have been game changers in terms of that.

00:39:59   But to me, the phone is so rich as a platform now.

00:40:01   And you know, and I know that there are talented people like TikTok influencers.

00:40:07   The iPhone is their only computer.

00:40:11   And they're making incredible art, video editing, and all of this stuff.

00:40:15   Your phone is so powerful.

00:40:19   But at this point, going into my phone is more akin to logging into my Mac.

00:40:24   It's a thing where I go into my phone to do something serious.

00:40:27   Sometimes I just want to see sports scores.

00:40:29   And I don't want to go into my phone.

00:40:31   And not saying face ID and touch ID aren't easy enough.

00:40:33   But then it's like, yeah, then you've got to tap the right app or whatever.

00:40:36   It's like, if you really care about the NBA finals, put a widget on your lock screen.

00:40:40   Yeah, I think that's where the distraction factor can come in, too.

00:40:44   Because you can find that if you can get the answer at a glance, then you don't unlock.

00:40:50   And then once you've unlocked your phone, you almost forget why you got in there in the first place.

00:40:54   Like, oh, let me go check over and mail.

00:40:56   And then, you know, right?

00:40:58   But you just get the answer there.

00:41:00   And then you move on with your life.

00:41:01   And we're certainly, with a lot of features, with Focus and many others,

00:41:06   we're really trying to make sure that people have a healthy relationship with their devices.

00:41:11   And I think actually putting the information you need at a glance right there

00:41:15   is part of giving that balance.

00:41:18   So let's go to the Mac.

00:41:22   And I'll mention, I'm going to talk about a feature that I think I don't like.

00:41:27   OK.

00:41:27   Which is the reimagined system preferences to settings.

00:41:34   Don't like the name?

00:41:35   I also don't like the name.

00:41:42   But I admit, though, that I have a propensity for nostalgia that probably would make me unsuitable

00:41:52   for product marketing.

00:41:53   But it's not just that the name changed.

00:42:01   It is that what was system preferences has been reimagined to be more-- well,

00:42:07   well, very much in line with settings on iOS and iPad OS.

00:42:11   And I get it.

00:42:14   It's first developer beta.

00:42:16   But from what I saw of it yesterday, it looks like a step backwards.

00:42:21   It looks like on the current Mac, trackpad preferences have this amazing video that

00:42:31   it just shows you all the gestures you can do visually.

00:42:34   And it looked to me, going through the new Mac settings app, that it's just all a bunch

00:42:39   of checkboxes.

00:42:41   Yeah.

00:42:42   Well, on that front, I ought to say it is tough when we get judged by our betas.

00:42:46   Because that one is coming, actually.

00:42:48   That's a piece of work that we're absolutely--

00:42:49   Me?

00:42:49   Judge the betas?

00:42:50   What?

00:42:53   I didn't want to go there.

00:42:54   But it is-- I can tell you.

00:42:58   That's a case where we have a slightly different vision for those videos.

00:43:02   We think we have something better, but they're not done being produced.

00:43:05   So we didn't want to cram the old videos in.

00:43:07   So we're going to have an experience that's richer there.

00:43:10   But I think there is-- in terms of settings as a whole, and the transition from system

00:43:15   preferences to settings, we have-- I think if you look at the origins of the Mac's original

00:43:24   system, it was certainly, by and large, in an era where we weren't consuming as much

00:43:31   content on the web, where scrolling to access content wasn't quite as common, and actually

00:43:39   scrolling historically was even sort of harder and more tedious.

00:43:42   Right.

00:43:42   Click, click, click.

00:43:43   And so the Mac existing settings, it's a carefully crafted set of intricate little

00:43:49   bento boxes, and then nested drill into this panel to get this other panel to this other

00:43:54   panel.

00:43:54   And gosh, as we've been trying to build more and more experiences into the system, it's

00:43:59   actually difficult to achieve clarity and simplicity within those constraints.

00:44:06   And when we can do something that's much more scannable linearly, it's actually easier

00:44:14   cognitively to take in something where the content scales much better.

00:44:20   So you know I scroll down, and I can get to that.

00:44:23   It-- I think it gives us and gives our design team something that's actually much more

00:44:30   suited to the task.

00:44:31   And it was actually a lot of craft-- and I think there's-- if it hasn't aired yet, it

00:44:35   will-- a WWDC session where we even talk about the set of new control types that we

00:44:43   introduced so that on the Mac we could achieve the right balance of something.

00:44:46   The right kind of controls that weren't too heavy were very readable and scannable and

00:44:50   yet clearly interactable.

00:44:52   And so there was a lot of craft even just in all the right form elements to build a

00:44:57   great experience there.

00:44:59   So we're still going to be fine tuning the details here.

00:45:03   But I think this is going to be a really good step for the Mac.

00:45:08   And this was, I'll say, 100% not our driving motivation.

00:45:12   Sometimes people worry, well, you've just taken what you did on iOS to the Mac.

00:45:15   This was not the driving motivation.

00:45:17   But the familiarity is also useful to people because they figure, well, I know how to get

00:45:25   to my Wi-Fi settings over here.

00:45:26   Now it's in a completely different place and rendered in a completely different way.

00:45:30   The extent we can bring that kind of parallelism, I think that's a simpler system for many of

00:45:36   our users to adjust to as well.

00:45:38   So we think it's a better interface.

00:45:39   We also think having consistency is very helpful here.

00:45:42   You're very convincing.

00:45:46   I think there's another you're right shit coming.

00:45:48   [LAUGHTER]

00:45:49   No catching in yet.

00:45:51   No, sorry.

00:45:51   Save it for next year.

00:45:54   The next feature I wanted to talk about was stage manager, which really made me think.

00:46:03   So let me get this out of the way.

00:46:05   I don't-- I've never taken to Spaces.

00:46:07   And I know other people-- I don't think Spaces is a bad feature.

00:46:10   And I don't think I've ever claimed that it was.

00:46:12   It just doesn't never fit my brain.

00:46:15   I have at times had multiple monitors set up.

00:46:18   And with two physical displays, I'll say, I'm going to put my email over here and messages,

00:46:24   because that's like communication.

00:46:25   And then everything else I'll do over on this one.

00:46:28   And then that makes sense to me.

00:46:30   But having one display where there's a space over here for-- and I know they're even arranged.

00:46:35   It just never-- it never fit for me, because I think I need to actually see it.

00:46:40   It needs to be-- it can't disappear for me.

00:46:42   Or then it's disappeared from my brain.

00:46:43   And what I really liked about stage manager, which I haven't tried but just saw the demo.

00:46:49   But I like that you can still see-- everything is on screen.

00:46:54   And I'm just curious what the thinking behind it is.

00:46:58   Oh, yeah.

00:46:58   No, stage manager-- I mean, it's funny.

00:47:00   This one has been a passion project for a bunch of us for an incredibly long time.

00:47:06   In fact, one of the key members of the team worked on what was in one of the

00:47:13   earliest Mac OS X betas.

00:47:16   There was a single window mode back then.

00:47:19   And there was some thinking there.

00:47:20   We're like, there's something there to have that idea that most of the time I can focus

00:47:24   on one thing at a time but get at other things.

00:47:27   Now, that had-- the animations were too much.

00:47:31   And the accessibility to get at your things wasn't good enough.

00:47:34   And we, over the years, keep coming back to how do we get to this idea.

00:47:40   Because I do think-- I first want to make sure, and I think what you said with spaces

00:47:45   was a really great thought.

00:47:48   Because the Mac has a lot of different ways to manage--

00:47:52   windowing is so important to the Mac experience.

00:47:55   And the Mac provides so many different ways to do it.

00:47:57   And if you surveyed everyone here in this audience and watched how they use their Mac,

00:48:02   there are like 100 different patterns of interaction.

00:48:05   And some people are going to use mission control all the time.

00:48:09   And some people are going to be minimizing their windows.

00:48:12   And some people are going to be using spaces.

00:48:16   And some people are going to be Command-H hiding and then bringing them back.

00:48:19   Some people use their docs.

00:48:21   Some people are Command-Tabbers.

00:48:22   Just an unbelievable set of different things.

00:48:25   And to be clear, Stage Manager is not the one answer to end them all.

00:48:30   I think many people will be very happy with their existing patterns.

00:48:35   And we're not telling you you're doing it wrong.

00:48:37   If you're happy with how things work for you, stick with that.

00:48:41   But for many of us, there is this sense as we use the Mac in the normal way

00:48:50   that the Mac experience is messy by default.

00:48:54   You open one thing, and then you go to get the next thing.

00:48:57   And it piles on top of that mess.

00:48:58   And you go to the next thing, you pile on top of that mess.

00:49:00   And so you're constantly either living in the mess

00:49:03   or you're cleaning up after yourself constantly as you go.

00:49:07   And for those of us that are switching between things,

00:49:09   we're just switching between different piles of messes.

00:49:11   And so when we came to an interface where we could focus on something one at a time,

00:49:16   still have things accessible to us when we wanted them,

00:49:18   and then create those kinds of,

00:49:21   "Oh, I'm working on this note and this presentation at the same time.

00:49:24   That I want to consider as a thing, make that a really easy thing to get into.

00:49:27   Well, then I can switch to other tasks."

00:49:29   It can be a great way to work.

00:49:30   So I think it's going to be interesting to see during the betas

00:49:35   which people sort of resonate with this idea and which ones say, "You know, it's not for me."

00:49:39   But we know from those of us who've been living on it for months now

00:49:43   that there's a group of us for which it is our favorite new way of working on the Mac.

00:49:49   And we're going to continue to tune it.

00:49:51   We know there's some ideas to tweak it over the summer.

00:49:56   But overall, we're really happy with it.

00:49:59   And then, of course, it was truly coincidental.

00:50:03   I have to say that we found ourselves coming from a completely different direction with iPad

00:50:10   and realizing they arrived at the same place.

00:50:15   And it was almost weird when that happened.

00:50:17   But we realized with iPad, you had what was a clean experience by default,

00:50:23   single window at a time, but where you wanted to be able to bring in more,

00:50:27   have more access to things, more multitasking.

00:50:30   And so we were able to capture part of the spirit of the iPad and yet open it up

00:50:36   in such a huge way to overlapping windows and that broader sense of access for multitasking.

00:50:42   >> Right.

00:50:43   Because one of the things that to me has always been missing with iPadOS multitasking

00:50:48   is the concept of a stack.

00:50:51   >> Yeah.

00:50:51   >> Right?

00:50:52   And you guys really did come up with some good ideas eventually for side by side.

00:50:59   >> Yeah.

00:51:00   >> Side by side arrangement of things.

00:51:02   But even then, you lost that Z-axis of being able to stack a few things.

00:51:10   And Stage Manager for iPad seems like it's a good way to bring some of that.

00:51:17   And you get some layering, and you can have messages open with something else

00:51:22   and pop one forward so that it doesn't have to be in a skinny column.

00:51:26   It could overlap.

00:51:27   And at the same time, not everybody has to do it.

00:51:29   >> Right.

00:51:30   Not everybody has to do it.

00:51:31   Look, I expect there are a lot of iPad users--

00:51:34   I mean, iPad has a phenomenally successful user experience that a lot of people can use

00:51:39   from the moment they first touch their device.

00:51:41   And they're 100% delighted with it.

00:51:44   And that is totally cool with us.

00:51:45   But increasingly, you have a group of people that are pushing it much more

00:51:50   into different forms of productivity where they want a little bit richer experience.

00:51:56   Maybe they want to use an external monitor.

00:51:58   Maybe they're sitting down with a trackpad.

00:52:00   And we think Stage Manager finds the right balance.

00:52:04   And certainly, one of the things we've all experienced with the Mac with that Z order

00:52:08   is sometimes I have the Notes window over here.

00:52:11   And when I use it, I want it full width.

00:52:14   I didn't want it tiled into a teeny column.

00:52:17   And I wanted to be able to see it.

00:52:19   And maybe I can even read some part of it I want to get at while still having my Safari window.

00:52:23   Also, 3/4 of the screen wide.

00:52:27   So that ability to have them both there, both completely accessible but not tiled,

00:52:32   is something that's a really important part of the Mac experience.

00:52:38   And we wanted to bring that to the iPad without losing the fact that the iPad is,

00:52:43   by default, a very focused experience and one that's not-- you're not just accumulating a

00:52:50   constant mess and having to actively worry about window management.

00:52:53   And we feel like Stage Manager is a really wonderful balance there.

00:52:58   Yeah, I completely agree about the iPad.

00:53:00   Because I extended family members who aren't into computers for years now have thrived

00:53:08   on their iPads in ways that they didn't with Macs going back to them.

00:53:12   Not that they didn't like their Mac, but that they just do more and like it more.

00:53:18   And they use it in a relatively simple way.

00:53:22   But it's profound how much more they enjoy their computing experience on their iPad.

00:53:29   And I do think that making it something that's not in your face all the time,

00:53:34   you just-- if you want to use Stage Manager on an iPad, you can.

00:53:37   I thought the funniest thing that my kids used to do when they were the age they were on that

00:53:43   lock screen photo is I'd come down after they'd been using the Mac for a while.

00:53:47   And I'd find all the windows had been dragged to the bottom like this much of the display.

00:53:54   Because they just get rid of them by pushing them in a big pile down at the bottom.

00:53:59   I'm like, well, that's window management.

00:54:00   I'm going to steal this one from my pal Matthew Panzareno.

00:54:08   But he had the observation that if Stage Manager for iPad OS had come out first,

00:54:16   and maybe let's say like four to five years ago when there was more consternation in the community

00:54:22   about is Apple committed to the Mac, that it would have been the cataclysm for people who

00:54:29   had that fear.

00:54:30   Because they would have said, here it is.

00:54:32   They've added a feature to the iPad to enable people to do stuff like that on iPad.

00:54:39   So the Mac is definitely dead.

00:54:41   And I really-- I think it was a key observation.

00:54:45   And I know that era drove you nuts, Jaws.

00:54:48   What was this crazy false narrative that it was like, are you getting an iPad or a computer?

00:54:54   People get both.

00:54:57   It really is the reality that the majority of Mac customers have an iPad.

00:55:01   And they use them both.

00:55:02   You use them for the moment that best suits that tool.

00:55:08   And we love that.

00:55:09   And it's like this crazy thing that yeah, on top of it, so we were going to kill one of them.

00:55:13   One of them was going to be--

00:55:14   sacrificed.

00:55:15   I just never quite could wrap my head around the thinking.

00:55:21   Right.

00:55:23   It was sort of just an assumption that of course they're going to kill one.

00:55:26   So they're going to kill the older one.

00:55:28   And that's it.

00:55:30   And I think the other question is, why would they kill either of them?

00:55:33   Right.

00:55:34   Isn't the Renaissance of the Mac so awesome, though?

00:55:38   It is incredible.

00:55:39   And it is clearly--

00:55:42   I think it started a little bit even before Apple Silicon.

00:55:45   But clearly Apple Silicon for the Mac catapulted it, that Renaissance.

00:55:50   And that is actually on my card.

00:55:52   Apple doesn't care about the Mac.

00:55:54   Well, that ended with the M1 Macs.

00:55:57   Right?

00:55:57   That's over.

00:55:57   We did care about the Macs before.

00:56:05   I know.

00:56:06   But we--

00:56:06   You called us out and told us.

00:56:09   Yeah, we tried to tell you.

00:56:11   But it is wonderful to be in--

00:56:13   I mean, the conspiracy theory about us not doing that to iPad because--

00:56:17   I don't know, to disturb Mac people or something.

00:56:19   That was not what was going on.

00:56:20   But it is wonderful to be in a time where the confidence of the community around the

00:56:26   Mac is such that we can do whatever we want with the iPad now.

00:56:30   And no one's going to be like, oh, but does this mean you don't care about the Mac?

00:56:34   Like, no, no.

00:56:34   The Mac, we can all feel very, very comfortable with our Macs.

00:56:37   And by the way, the Mac, 38 years old.

00:56:41   Still, about half the people who buy a Mac, it's their first Mac.

00:56:44   Right?

00:56:45   It's never done better.

00:56:46   It's unbelievable.

00:56:48   Competitors have come.

00:56:49   Competitors have gone.

00:56:49   And the Mac's never done better.

00:56:51   And boy, people are happy with their Macs these days.

00:56:53   And Apple Silicon's a part of it.

00:56:55   Mac OS has always been there and a huge part of that experience that's just never been

00:57:00   matched.

00:57:00   And that's why so many of us-- look, I came to Apple a long time ago.

00:57:07   And look, we came here because of the Mac.

00:57:08   Right?

00:57:08   And that's what was also-- really drove us nuts when this whole theory we're out to kill

00:57:12   the Mac.

00:57:13   The Mac, as we said, was in our DNA.

00:57:14   Right?

00:57:15   It's like, why we came here.

00:57:16   It's like, we love the Mac.

00:57:17   You'd have to pry it out of our hands.

00:57:20   This idea that we were going to try to kill it was just repugnant.

00:57:23   [LAUGHTER]

00:57:25   I agree.

00:57:26   So this leads me-- I'm doing well with my segues this year.

00:57:30   [LAUGHTER]

00:57:33   But this leads me to another big part of the keynote yesterday,

00:57:38   which was gaming on the Mac.

00:57:40   Because here's the one area.

00:57:42   [APPLAUSE]

00:57:47   Here's maybe the biggest area.

00:57:50   Yeah, I think that might be safe to say.

00:57:52   But certainly, I forget the exact numbers, but how much more money the video games industry

00:57:59   makes than the movie industry.

00:58:01   Hollywood.

00:58:01   Yeah, Hollywood.

00:58:04   The idea that Apple doesn't care about the fact that gaming on the Mac isn't as big as

00:58:11   gaming on PC.

00:58:13   And I thought that the messaging in the keynote yesterday is, oh, no, we care.

00:58:20   We've been working on this.

00:58:22   Yeah.

00:58:22   Yeah, well, I mean, the move to Apple Silicon finally gave us control over the kind of graphics

00:58:32   we've been wanting to put in Macs for a long time.

00:58:35   And those are great gaming graphics.

00:58:38   I mean, they're great for other parts of our experience.

00:58:40   But for years and years, we've wanted to build Macs that are power efficient, that can be

00:58:47   compact, and are also incredibly powerful for graphics.

00:58:51   And to now have Apple Silicon, where every Mac we sell-- and we're now selling a lot

00:58:58   more of them-- have awesome graphics, graphics capable of playing the best games, I think

00:59:06   just changes the whole landscape if you're a game developer.

00:59:10   And that would be true even if they were just looking at the Mac.

00:59:14   But the fact that now, from a graphics platform point of view, you have M1 on the Macs, now

00:59:23   M2, and you have M1 on the iPad, and you really have that same GPU architecture and that same

00:59:29   software architecture with Metal extending all the way through all the iPads and to the

00:59:33   phones for a game developer to target their engines, to take their titles, there is a

00:59:41   huge opportunity that-- the playing field was a little rougher when we had a different mix

00:59:46   of technologies in the Mac.

00:59:48   Now we have awesome gaming machines, everyone we sell, and we're selling a lot of them,

00:59:53   and we have the right software platform.

00:59:55   So I think this is the time.

00:59:57   And I think that there's clearly-- I mean, it's almost a statement of the obvious, but

01:00:02   there's an economy of scale factor there, where even with the Mac selling better today

01:00:08   than it ever has in 38 years, the Mac by itself is still a smaller segment of the PC industry.

01:00:18   And the difference with Apple Silicon and with the Metal APIs that you guys have been

01:00:26   evolving-- we're up to Metal 3 now, right?

01:00:28   That's the new one that was new this week-- is the overall surface area of number of devices

01:00:39   is on your side now, right?

01:00:42   Where the number of devices that you could target with high-end graphics and the Metal

01:00:47   APIs-- and this is where iOS's tremendous success can actually lift the Mac up in terms

01:00:56   of--

01:00:56   And what we've seen is as iPhone graphics have-- I mean, you just see the exponential

01:01:05   chart there-- to the point where now game developers can bring their console engines

01:01:11   to the iPhone.

01:01:13   And so if they're bringing their console engines to the iPhone on Metal, will they now have

01:01:20   their console engine on the Mac, effectively, right?

01:01:24   So that investment, that effort pays off across the line now in a way it never has before.

01:01:30   So the aggregate Apple platform for games is, I think, a phenomenal opportunity for developers,

01:01:37   for game developers in particular.

01:01:39   So I expect this to be an unprecedented time for gaming on the Mac in the coming years.

01:01:46   >> I think that's going to make a lot of people very happy.

01:01:48   >> For sure.

01:01:49   >> I got a text from my son after the keynote.

01:01:54   And it was one news story about-- I don't even know the details, but he's really into

01:01:59   gaming.

01:02:00   And he was like, hey, this is a big deal.

01:02:03   Even AMD doesn't have this.

01:02:06   And I don't know what it was.

01:02:07   It was some specific thing.

01:02:08   And I was like, oh, this is going to be-- I trust his judgment on it.

01:02:13   >> OK.

01:02:14   >> That's awesome.

01:02:14   >> But you heard it here.

01:02:15   >> Yeah.

01:02:16   >> Yeah.

01:02:16   >> The next author of Daring Fireball.

01:02:19   >> Yeah, yeah.

01:02:20   >> Yeah.

01:02:20   >> It's going to have a very heavy games focus.

01:02:24   [LAUGHTER]

01:02:28   >> It's like one of those things, like, you know how in the old days, sometimes when the

01:02:32   author of a daily comic strip would die or retire and their kids would take it over,

01:02:37   you know, like Hagar the horrible or something.

01:02:39   It'd be like, you know, if they had a totally different artistic style.

01:02:42   [LAUGHTER]

01:02:45   Shifting gears.

01:02:45   I can't let this go without talking about CarPlay, which I thought was surprising.

01:02:52   I was like, I can't believe that this is happening.

01:02:54   I can't believe--

01:02:55   >> A little bit of a sleeper hit yesterday.

01:02:56   >> Yeah.

01:02:57   It's like, you know, the original idea of CarPlay of-- obviously, if your music's on

01:03:05   your phone and some of your other stuff is on the phone and there's a screen in the

01:03:09   car, you want to be able to play your music through the car and you want to be able to,

01:03:13   you know, do maps too, right?

01:03:15   Maps and phone calls.

01:03:16   But the idea that CarPlay is being extended to everything, speedometer, the amount of

01:03:26   gas in your tank or power left in your battery, you know, the whole instrument panel,

01:03:31   basically.

01:03:35   And a lot of partners on that partner slide.

01:03:38   I've got it on-- it's one of those ones where we at the media will snap pictures of

01:03:42   those slides just to-- it's easier because that way we don't have to scrub through the

01:03:46   video later to find them.

01:03:48   A lot of partners.

01:03:48   And also, to me, incredible numbers.

01:03:54   98 or 97% of new cars sold in the US.

01:03:59   I checked.

01:04:01   I'm checking with someone who I thought would know.

01:04:04   And to me, the more eye-opening number was that 79% of new car buyers in the US wouldn't

01:04:11   consider a car without CarPlay.

01:04:13   Am I putting it-- am I phrasing it right?

01:04:14   You are exactly right, sir.

01:04:15   Here's the thing that seems-- that seems incommensurate with market-- because we're

01:04:22   talking about CarPlay specifically, which is iPhone specific.

01:04:27   And that 79% does not seem commensurate with the market share numbers of--

01:04:33   it is for new car buyers.

01:04:34   That's really what it comes down to.

01:04:36   Well, I thought it was that Android users knew they were going to eventually buy an

01:04:39   iPhone.

01:04:39   I've got to be making a long-term decision here.

01:04:43   Think ahead.

01:04:45   That's the long game right there.

01:04:46   Yeah, no, it's amazing because we do have such amazing customers.

01:04:51   And they are the overwhelming percentage of new car buyers in the US.

01:04:55   And it's interesting you mentioned the partner chart because remember, we first launched

01:04:59   CarPlay in 2013.

01:05:00   I think we had like two partners.

01:05:02   I forgot to mention that.

01:05:04   Yeah, on that original slide.

01:05:05   And we didn't bring it-- we didn't start getting announcements to the following year.

01:05:08   And we got a lot more partners into it.

01:05:09   But the world changed since 2013.

01:05:12   Right?

01:05:12   I mean, you're lucky if you had a display big enough for what we wanted to do with CarPlay.

01:05:17   Now cars are full of displays and more complicated systems.

01:05:21   And we needed a new generation of CarPlay that really could give you that better experience

01:05:29   across all those displays and across all those systems.

01:05:31   And we still want the car companies to be able to express their brands.

01:05:35   Right?

01:05:36   That's the important part too.

01:05:37   This is a way that the iPhone and the car come together.

01:05:41   So you still get that brand expression in these cars.

01:05:45   But you get that iPhone feeling and then homogeneous experience.

01:05:49   You don't need to jump out from your entertainment to go change the temperature

01:05:54   or change the radio station.

01:05:55   You can do it all within one system.

01:05:59   And I think the automakers we've talked to see that their best customers are iPhone customers.

01:06:05   Their CarPlay customers spend the vast majority of their time in CarPlay.

01:06:11   It's what they want to use.

01:06:13   And they know that their Apple customers want more of that experience.

01:06:19   The seams between the CarPlay experience they love and the rest of the car are not

01:06:28   serving their most important audience very well.

01:06:31   And so we've been working with them to come up with this job.

01:06:34   It says something allows them to express their brand still.

01:06:38   And their customers know what car they bought.

01:06:42   They want to see that it's that car.

01:06:45   At the same time, they want a coherent experience across the whole thing.

01:06:50   And so I think it's great for all involved.

01:06:56   Apple is known, and I think you guys have often even said it in events,

01:07:02   that for a year the mantra was only Apple.

01:07:07   Only Apple can do certain things.

01:07:10   Because you're known for controlling the whole widget.

01:07:14   That you build the hardware, now even on the Mac, the silicon, and all of the software.

01:07:22   And that the computer isn't hardware with software, or software that just happens to

01:07:28   have hardware.

01:07:29   You can't separate the two.

01:07:31   It's like two sides of a coin.

01:07:32   But how does CarPlay square with that?

01:07:36   How does that work at Apple, where you're known for building the whole widget?

01:07:43   And as far as I know, nobody's ever even suspected that you're building your own car.

01:07:47   [LAUGHTER]

01:07:53   And so it's sort of a pure software play at this point.

01:07:56   I'm curious how you guys--

01:07:58   [LAUGHTER]

01:08:00   You got a snort out of Jaws there.

01:08:01   You got a snort shit.

01:08:03   [LAUGHTER]

01:08:11   But you do seem to have the trust of a lot of car makers, or most car makers.

01:08:18   Because that slide had an awful lot of--

01:08:21   Well, they want to sell more cars.

01:08:22   Right.

01:08:23   And to Craig's point, customers like it.

01:08:25   CarPlay has got extraordinarily high customer satisfaction.

01:08:28   You saw the numbers, the 98%, the 79%.

01:08:30   It's working.

01:08:31   And we now even get to work actually better together with this next generation of CarPlay.

01:08:36   Because again, they get to express their brand.

01:08:38   That brand doesn't get expressed in today's CarPlay.

01:08:40   They can actually express their brand in this new generation.

01:08:44   I think everybody's very excited about that.

01:08:46   Who wouldn't be?

01:08:48   And again, the reaction yesterday was over the top.

01:08:50   It's great.

01:08:50   Lightning round.

01:08:52   Pass key.

01:08:54   Good.

01:08:56   [LAUGHTER]

01:08:59   I was going to say great, but all right.

01:09:01   [LAUGHTER]

01:09:04   Not quite that lightning.

01:09:05   This is the talk show.

01:09:08   But I remember it was probably over 10 years ago.

01:09:13   But I was attending WWDC.

01:09:16   And it was later in the week.

01:09:17   I was with somebody and wound up going into a session on security.

01:09:22   And it was really interesting.

01:09:24   And it was so long ago that there were still Q&As at the end of the sessions.

01:09:28   I mean, it's really--

01:09:29   So people used to meet in person, you're saying?

01:09:33   Yes.

01:09:33   And at the end of the session on security, somebody asked.

01:09:37   And the other thing that was really rare is that it was a really good question.

01:09:41   [LAUGHTER]

01:09:43   Because it was a question, not a story.

01:09:45   And what he said was, as I tell a story.

01:09:47   But what he asked was, have you guys given any thought to getting past passwords?

01:09:57   Where maybe a lot of the session was about how to make passwords safer,

01:10:00   and keychain features, and making passwords more.

01:10:05   Have you given any thought to moving past passwords?

01:10:08   Because passwords, no matter what you do, are going to leak.

01:10:12   There's problems.

01:10:15   And I don't know who that speaker was.

01:10:16   But it might have been Ivan Kristik.

01:10:20   Ivan Kristik.

01:10:21   I think it might have been.

01:10:22   And I think he was doing security at the time.

01:10:24   But whoever it was, it was one of the greatest answers to a Q&A I've ever heard.

01:10:27   The guy asked the question.

01:10:28   And he looked.

01:10:29   And then he looked down at his feed.

01:10:30   Yes.

01:10:34   [LAUGHTER]

01:10:37   And everybody laughed.

01:10:38   And because they got it.

01:10:39   Because they're Apple developers.

01:10:40   And they know, all right, he can't talk about it.

01:10:43   But he realized he could say yes to that question.

01:10:46   [LAUGHTER]

01:10:47   Sounds like Ivan.

01:10:48   But that's what PASC-Key is.

01:10:51   It is about getting past the fundamental-- no matter what you do to protect passwords,

01:10:59   it's a problematic concept.

01:11:02   That's right.

01:11:03   And you talked about long games.

01:11:06   And this is certainly one where, in order to build to this place, you need to--

01:11:13   I mean, the PASC-Keys are fundamentally distributing private-public-key pairs.

01:11:18   You have a public key.

01:11:19   What you give to a website is a public key.

01:11:22   The private key that would be necessary to log in to that site never leaves your devices.

01:11:27   But for that to be practical, you need a lot of things.

01:11:30   You need that key to be able to move between your other devices.

01:11:33   Because, of course, you want to be able to log in from everything.

01:11:36   And so building something like iCloud Keychain,

01:11:39   but also having that be something you could trust.

01:11:41   You're not exposing your credentials to Apple,

01:11:43   because that would then be another vulnerability.

01:11:46   If our site could be breached, and your passwords could be read,

01:11:49   or your PASC-Keys, rather, those private keys could be read, would be a problem.

01:11:52   So we had to build all of that infrastructure.

01:11:54   But it's also one where, for this to work,

01:11:56   it had to be-- there had to be an interoperable industry standard.

01:12:02   Because people are going to log in from--

01:12:04   they're going to have a PASC--

01:12:04   ultimately a PASC-Key that maybe they want to log into from their console--

01:12:09   their gaming console or some account like that.

01:12:12   You're going to need to be able to walk up to another PC

01:12:15   and use your phone to hand off that credential.

01:12:17   And so we've been working as part of the Fido Alliance

01:12:20   with some other big platform players

01:12:22   to make sure that this was the clear answer that all the websites would want to adopt.

01:12:28   And it will take a while for them to do that adoption.

01:12:31   But the only solution to passwords is getting rid of passwords.

01:12:36   And this truly is the right answer.

01:12:38   iCloud Private Relay, one of my favorite features announced last year.

01:12:43   Still in beta, and we didn't hear anything about it this week,

01:12:49   what's the status of iCloud Private Relay?

01:12:52   We're still shipping and operating it.

01:12:54   OK.

01:12:55   But it's--

01:12:55   Yeah, we love it.

01:12:57   But do you think it's been a success a year in the field?

01:13:00   Yeah.

01:13:01   Yeah, I think compatibility has gotten really, really good too.

01:13:03   Yeah.

01:13:04   I think it's a great--

01:13:06   Yeah, we weren't timing beta.

01:13:07   The beta, non-beta-ness of it were not about the software that's shipping on devices.

01:13:16   It's more about getting the compatibility in the community in the right place.

01:13:23   And so the moment where it will become non-beta won't--

01:13:27   WWDC wasn't really the moment for that kind of thing, given the nature of the--

01:13:30   That's the moment to go into beta.

01:13:31   Yeah.

01:13:34   But I think we're all huge fans of the feature, and it's going very well.

01:13:39   WeatherKit, we can go on and on.

01:13:42   We're running short on time.

01:13:43   But two things struck me about WeatherKit.

01:13:46   One, when Apple acquired Dark Sky, I thought--

01:13:51   in addition to being just plain useful, there's a privacy angle to this.

01:13:56   And that weather-- because weather apps inherently need your location.

01:14:00   And your location is inherently private.

01:14:02   And there's this surprisingly shockingly enormous cottage industry of data brokers

01:14:09   who specifically target just weather apps.

01:14:11   I've talked to weather app developers, and they're like, you can't believe--

01:14:15   I changed my email address because it's just filled up with these data brokers wanting

01:14:21   to see if I'll sell my users' location data.

01:14:23   Is that part of the thinking?

01:14:26   Is that part of the privacy?

01:14:28   Yeah, that's right.

01:14:28   Yeah.

01:14:29   And the other thing that I heard from developers yesterday, they couldn't believe the pricing,

01:14:33   that it's like 500,000 API calls free.

01:14:37   And then after that, the price is like half of what it was under Dark Sky, and more than

01:14:43   just competitive with other weather sources.

01:14:46   And I'm just curious how you see that.

01:14:51   I think we clearly need to be regulated.

01:14:54   [LAUGHTER]

01:14:57   Oh, you were doing so well.

01:15:00   I lost Joss.

01:15:01   No, but I think it's great for our users.

01:15:03   All right.

01:15:04   All right, last question.

01:15:05   Can't wait for that little clip.

01:15:10   There was going to be an editing process here, wasn't there?

01:15:15   We'll beep it out.

01:15:15   I don't know.

01:15:20   20, 25 years ago, I bought a goofy t-shirt, an 80s-style clip art of a couple of kids

01:15:26   at an 80s-style generic PC.

01:15:29   Like, maybe they were in school, and they're banging away at the keyboard.

01:15:34   And the slogan on the t-shirt just said, like in a bubble font, "Computers are fun and

01:15:40   useful."

01:15:41   And I love that t-shirt.

01:15:43   And I don't have it anymore, because I think I wore it so much, my wife threw it out.

01:15:46   [LAUGHTER]

01:15:48   But I've been thinking about it.

01:15:49   I don't know why this year that phrase has been resonating to me.

01:15:55   And the thing that really brought it to make me bring it up as the final question for you

01:16:00   guys was that experience yesterday and Sunday with the developers from all around the world.

01:16:10   And their enthusiasm to be back here in person and just excited to find out what's going

01:16:16   to be in the keynote.

01:16:17   What do you think is going to be in the keynote?

01:16:18   What do you think is going to be in the keynote?

01:16:21   In addition to the fact that computers are fun and useful, there's a certain type of

01:16:26   person-- and it turns out there's a lot of them-- who particularly think Apple computers

01:16:34   are fun and useful.

01:16:35   And you said, that's why you came to work at Apple.

01:16:38   You weren't looking for a job in the computer industry.

01:16:40   You wanted to get a job at Apple.

01:16:42   And there is no Plan B, because there was nothing else like the Mac.

01:16:46   And just as a final question, I'm just wondering if you guys-- you decide who goes first.

01:16:53   But when was the first time, way back when, when it hit you that Apple computers are different

01:17:01   and that you fell in love with them?

01:17:04   Well, I'm really going to date myself.

01:17:06   So I'm older than Craig, so maybe I'll go first.

01:17:07   My first Apple that I used was a Lisa.

01:17:11   And I went to University of Michigan, and they invested big in Lisa's.

01:17:15   We had Lisa's everywhere.

01:17:17   They were like $15,000 or something.

01:17:18   Yeah, and we had a lot of them.

01:17:20   We're probably-- I don't know if we were the largest customer for Lisa's, but we had a

01:17:23   lot of them.

01:17:24   And boy, I did everything.

01:17:25   I was like, this is unbelievable.

01:17:27   And again, I'd use, obviously, PCs and everything, the old stuff.

01:17:33   My Commodore 64 was my first thing.

01:17:34   And I was like, wow, this is unbelievable.

01:17:36   But then I do remember being a little pea because the Lisa's went away.

01:17:40   And here was this little thing called the Mac.

01:17:45   And all of a sudden, it became pretty cool.

01:17:49   And without going through my whole history, I just became addicted to it.

01:17:54   Well, that's probably the wrong word to use.

01:17:56   Very closely associated with it.

01:18:00   And started working at the University of Michigan in the computer lab and really becoming the

01:18:07   Mac expert.

01:18:08   And to your point, then, that led to having to be here.

01:18:12   And I've always said to people, I couldn't imagine doing my job anywhere else because

01:18:20   of that hardware and software, that integration that allows us to-- I always tell people,

01:18:27   look, there's a small list of world-class hardware providers.

01:18:30   We're on it.

01:18:32   There's a small list of world-class software providers.

01:18:35   We're on it.

01:18:35   We're the only companies really both.

01:18:37   Right?

01:18:37   And what that means is instead of having different companies with different agendas, we

01:18:42   control it all.

01:18:43   As you said, the whole widget.

01:18:45   So I said, if we can imagine it, we really can create it here.

01:18:49   Right?

01:18:49   And we can do a pretty good job creating it.

01:18:52   And I just couldn't imagine trying to do what I do or what we do at any of our competitors.

01:18:58   It would be very frustrating.

01:18:59   Right?

01:19:00   But instead, it's very rewarding to do what we do and have days like yesterday and talk

01:19:04   about this sort of stuff.

01:19:05   I just-- yeah.

01:19:06   That's why I'm here 36 years later.

01:19:08   So--

01:19:10   Yeah, my story doesn't involve the Lisa, but it's not so different.

01:19:17   When I was 10, my first exposure to a computer was an Apple II Plus.

01:19:20   And it just-- that was really-- it was less about what the Apple represented at that time.

01:19:28   It was more at that moment about what computers represented.

01:19:31   And it just set off fireworks.

01:19:33   I mean, that was it.

01:19:34   I knew from that moment forward this is what I wanted to do.

01:19:37   But it was when the Mac came out in 1984.

01:19:41   And I had my dad's friend-- I think it was 14 or something at the time.

01:19:44   My dad's friend had been given one to evaluate.

01:19:47   And he gave it to me-- he didn't give it to me.

01:19:49   He lent it to me for a while.

01:19:50   And it was at that time that I said to myself, I must work at Apple someday.

01:19:58   And it was-- my thought was I wanted to be among the people who could build such a thing.

01:20:07   And who had the care and the skill to create something like this.

01:20:15   I mean, it was so eye-opening about what this technology that I had fallen in love with,

01:20:22   how it could be harnessed and what it could mean.

01:20:26   And I was not disappointed to find who those people were when I was finally amongst them.

01:20:34   And that is beyond these walls.

01:20:38   I mean, that is this community.

01:20:40   I think that's what's special.

01:20:42   I think that's why the people-- why the developers want to come here,

01:20:45   because they share that affinity not just with us, but with each other.

01:20:49   There's other companies that have developer conferences.

01:20:53   I can't imagine another one that would have had the feeling of this year's.

01:20:58   And again, I can't reiterate enough.

01:21:00   I really do think that this is going to go down as the best WWDC ever.

01:21:05   Not because you can't do better stuff or have a better presentation later,

01:21:10   but that hopefully we're never going to have one after two years like we just had,

01:21:15   where there's this pent-up emotion.

01:21:18   A pent-up desire to connect.

01:21:20   Yeah.

01:21:21   Yeah.

01:21:22   And amongst like-minded people who all see the same thing,

01:21:28   why would you build an app only for the iPhone?

01:21:30   Instead of going cross-platform, you can double your market share or whatever.

01:21:35   But it's like the developers who are here are the ones who see like,

01:21:41   yeah, because I want to go all in and make it as good as Apple's software.

01:21:47   And the only way to do that is to be native to the platform

01:21:50   and do things the right way for the platform.

01:21:53   And anyway, those were good answers.

01:21:58   I really enjoyed that.

01:21:59   And it sort of brings us to the end.

01:22:01   People I need to thank.

01:22:04   First, I want to thank everybody here in the audience.

01:22:07   [APPLAUSE]

01:22:14   It will never get old to me that people scoop up these tickets as fast as they can.

01:22:23   It is an incredible privilege.

01:22:25   I heard they're going for like $2,000.

01:22:27   Did you sell yours?

01:22:30   Because you didn't need it.

01:22:33   No one wanted mine.

01:22:34   I also want to thank Apple itself.

01:22:40   This is in Apple's building.

01:22:43   There's Apple people doing-- who have helped me in ways that it would take another hour

01:22:50   to talk about all the ways that it was helped.

01:22:52   And it means a lot to me.

01:22:54   It's my show.

01:22:55   But this year, I really couldn't have done it without Apple.

01:22:59   And I truly appreciate that, too.

01:23:01   [APPLAUSE]

01:23:07   I want to thank Sandwich.

01:23:08   They've been editing the show for the last few years and doing a phenomenal job.

01:23:14   Claude Zines from Sandwich is here.

01:23:21   He is going to scoop up this footage from these amazing cameras and put them on a hard

01:23:25   drive and start editing it on the way back to Los Angeles after we wrap.

01:23:30   So there's a few hundred of you listening to me right now.

01:23:35   And someday, there's going to be thousands of people watching this on YouTube.

01:23:39   All of you watching on YouTube, my thanks to Sandwich is for you.

01:23:43   And again, I don't know what I would do without Sandwich's help to do this show.

01:23:47   I don't really have a plan B for producing video.

01:23:51   I want to thank my family.

01:23:58   I want to thank my wife and son.

01:23:59   I think that says it all.

01:24:10   [APPLAUSE]

01:24:17   The last two years have been hard.

01:24:21   And I couldn't pick two better people to go through those years than my wife, Amy, and

01:24:26   my son, Jonas.

01:24:27   He's graduating high school Saturday.

01:24:31   And I'm so proud of him.

01:24:32   [APPLAUSE]

01:24:41   And I want to thank Craig and Jaws.

01:24:44   Thank you for being here again.

01:24:46   Thank you for having us.

01:24:47   Thank you.

01:24:47   Hopefully, see you next year.

01:24:49   [APPLAUSE]

01:24:59   [END]

01:25:09   [ Applause ]

01:25:11   [ Silence ]