00:00:00 ◼ ► So the one good thing about podcasting is that nobody it doesn't matter what jokes I crack nobody's gonna come up and give me a smack
00:00:23 ◼ ► complex situation that you get the I mean obviously so shocking right to see out there and then
00:00:30 ◼ ► You sort of think all kinds of things immediately like what you know, did that really happen all that stuff and then?
00:00:35 ◼ ► You get the immediate hot takes and the second day hot takes and the third day hot takes. It's just exhausting
00:00:41 ◼ ► So we we we don't watch the oscars live and haven't for years. I I you know, it's just a little tedious
00:00:51 ◼ ► But amy and I were going to bed on sunday night and amy went upstairs first and jonah said something
00:01:07 ◼ ► I guess because there's some kind of tape delay jonas had like a clip from the internet that was from like japanese tv. So it
00:01:32 ◼ ► the perfect storm and I I said this to amy and she thought I was nuts, but I said it was sort of like
00:01:40 ◼ ► You have to remember this the meme that went around like five six seven years ago about the what color is this dress?
00:01:54 ◼ ► it was just like a weird trick of the lighting and and a weird trick of the way digital cameras work where it's like some
00:02:02 ◼ ► People perceived it as blue and some perceived it as gold and it was pretty close to 50 50
00:02:07 ◼ ► And I did I saw polling on this chris rock will smith thing and it is so close to 50 50
00:02:26 ◼ ► And it was the exact it was to the tenth of a percentage point like trump voters and biden voters
00:02:36 ◼ ► Between will you know who was more wrong will smith or chris rock and it's like do you remember who was who?
00:02:46 ◼ ► It no. No, i'm saying that there was no difference between trump and i see what you're saying like the the
00:03:04 ◼ ► Socio-economic divide where it's like the the wealthier people reported being the more likely they were to
00:03:16 ◼ ► And then people with lower income were more likely to say will smith but even there it it wasn't
00:03:23 ◼ ► Nothing got out of the 50s, you know, it wasn't like a huge split right right and man. It's just like
00:03:42 ◼ ► But again very close to 50 50 just that and I think that's why you know, the whole world can't stop talking about it
00:03:48 ◼ ► Yeah, it's a pure definition like literal definition of a polarizing topic, right when you have that kind of split and it's just
00:04:02 ◼ ► And that's the thing. I think that our reaction especially driven by social media and the general polarization of
00:04:24 ◼ ► Right, like then if you want to put it under a big umbrella, it's the polarization of civilization
00:04:57 ◼ ► Because it's very easy to say how dare you suggest that anybody should ever be assaulted physically, which is true
00:05:04 ◼ ► It's hard. You can't it's very difficult to argue that in situations other than self-defense or defensive
00:05:10 ◼ ► Another physically, you know physical defense that it it's defensible right to to physically assault somebody else. But
00:05:17 ◼ ► There's also the argument on the other side. It's like well should you know everybody have the right to
00:05:28 ◼ ► Anybody else with no repercussions or no checks and balances and then you come right back with the argument. Yes
00:05:33 ◼ ► But should those checks and balances come in the form of physical assault is really hard to argue that they should right?
00:05:37 ◼ ► And so like you get this back and forth and then you add into that on top of this this whole sociological layer about
00:05:45 ◼ ► The way that black women are treated and then their general respect that is afforded them the general idea of their
00:06:06 ◼ ► You know importance and you add in that layer and then you add in the layer of you know
00:06:15 ◼ ► Situation or scenarios that are that are playing out you have stereotypes that play out you have all of the people that want to read
00:06:27 ◼ ► Seeing validation in their own polarization, right? And i'm not passing any judgment either way because I don't I feel i'm probably
00:06:35 ◼ ► There's plenty of people that are much smarter than I am, but I think it's absolutely clear that everybody has an opinion
00:06:41 ◼ ► And it's very interesting just to see all of the layering of these different, you know different factors at play
00:07:03 ◼ ► Her sort of part in this is all getting sidelined because these two, you know guys had this altercation two men
00:07:13 ◼ ► I really do feel like the idea that they're both very wealthy both very well known both famous
00:07:26 ◼ ► I'm not passing judgment on whether it should or not, but it actually makes it easier for people to talk about it
00:07:30 ◼ ► Well, like it's not somebody who's obviously in a position of much more power assaulting somebody in a much lower position
00:07:47 ◼ ► I'm, just saying that I think that that idea of them both being very famous well-known and powerful people
00:07:59 ◼ ► you know chris rock could not have insulted her and will smith could not have assaulted chris, but I think that it's
00:08:21 ◼ ► He's literally was one of the bizarre things is it wasn't just will smith like last year coming up on stage and slapping
00:08:42 ◼ ► Can't help but think that he was his emotions were on edge because that was still forthcoming, right?
00:09:01 ◼ ► Maybe it wouldn't have happened, you know, but he was on edge. Who knows what was going through his head
00:09:23 ◼ ► She didn't crack a joke that you know, you could say hey, you shouldn't be joking about that
00:09:26 ◼ ► It's a medical condition or he should know better, you know, and that she'd be sensitive about it and she didn't go up and slap anybody
00:09:32 ◼ ► You know, but yet she's literally in the middle of the whole thing and didn't ask for it
00:09:42 ◼ ► You know comes out of it is that you feel bad, you know for her position in the whole thing coming and going, you know
00:09:48 ◼ ► And it is a it is a sad situation for all involved. I I don't I don't think that anybody
00:09:57 ◼ ► At all and you know, there's no winner here and it's impossible to ever declare one. I I feel like what what?
00:10:09 ◼ ► on instagram then and I think chris rock has been silent on the matter at least this is
00:10:13 ◼ ► Up till last night and I think he's doing a show in boston tonight and maybe is sort of saving his public remarks
00:10:23 ◼ ► But I do feel I feel like they'll they'll patch this up and like somebody I forget who it was on twitter
00:10:28 ◼ ► It was like 10 bucks says next year's oscars will smith and chris rock come out together to give an award, you know
00:10:33 ◼ ► Like because they could make this go away right like they you know, no i'm not even saying they should you know
00:10:40 ◼ ► You know, I know there's literally turn the other cheek. I mean i'm not even saying that chris rock should forgive him
00:10:48 ◼ ► You you could not write a better scenario and and the other thing that I thought was so interesting was reading the after the fact
00:11:01 ◼ ► Should we have him escorted out like this was you know, I mean, you know, he he he literally assaulted somebody
00:11:15 ◼ ► Like my son doesn't believe me, but I really do believe that that the academy awards take the secrecy of the
00:11:23 ◼ ► Ballots and the the I think it's still price waterhouse coopers or somebody is the only people, you know
00:11:28 ◼ ► There's a very limited number of people who know the actual winners, but they knew he was nominated
00:11:33 ◼ ► They know that he was actually the odds on favorite this year. What do you do and does that alter your opinion?
00:11:38 ◼ ► You know, how do you do this? And it's like what they have 10 minutes to make a decision, you know
00:11:46 ◼ ► Do you leave him in does it make a difference that he still has an award coming? It's all so complicated
00:11:54 ◼ ► If it was me it would be hard. Like I I don't think that I can put myself in the academy scenario there
00:12:02 ◼ ► This is a very complex situation very fast developing. You're like what the heck just happened, you know in a lot of cases
00:12:07 ◼ ► I think I think though to like one of our events, you know, one of our shows something like hey, what are what would I do?
00:12:14 ◼ ► What would I do if somebody assaulted a guest or assaulted somebody on stage and like it's very clear to me
00:12:18 ◼ ► I really didn't matter who they were and I would ask them to leave but I also never you know
00:12:34 ◼ ► I guess it's well, I I met Derek Jeter as you recall at a tech crunch event in new york with my son
00:12:42 ◼ ► It's pretty big stars come to the tech crunch event and and Jeter was on stage to talk about the the launch of what's called
00:12:51 ◼ ► There's real stars who come to these events. I mean what happened? I mean Derek Jeter seems unlikely to slap somebody but you know
00:13:02 ◼ ► And then we'll get on with the real show, but I want to thank our first sponsor to our good friends at square space
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00:14:43 ◼ ► Matthew where certain things five years ago. Was it four years ago? Was it three years ago?
00:14:57 ◼ ► Where like you like you've been space traveling and your relativity has has screwed with your perception of time
00:15:10 ◼ ► You know break a record for something and you come back and now your your kids are your age and it's like what?
00:15:16 ◼ ► How'd that happen? There's like a gap I but to research this to have you on the show to talk about
00:15:25 ◼ ► I went back and I looked and and you even opened your your interview you had you scored a great interview with tom booger from mac
00:15:32 ◼ ► Product marketing xander. What's sander's last name? I have it right here in front of sorn
00:15:41 ◼ ► I forget if it was the first garage band or if it was like a major version of garage band
00:15:48 ◼ ► He's been with those teams for a very long time and shelly goldberg who is senior director of the mac and ipad product design
00:15:54 ◼ ► And you got to talk about both products, but you even open put it in your lead for this
00:16:00 ◼ ► Terrific feature interview with the three of them that the mac studio and the studio display
00:16:30 ◼ ► Yes, the time compression is in full effect. I I was shocked too when I looked up my articles like wait
00:17:09 ◼ ► and I just I just remember and I was like, oh that would be so helpful if you could share that with me because I
00:17:13 ◼ ► Was like trying to take notes by hand and it's like I I just remember it like it was yesterday and yet it was five years ago
00:17:33 ◼ ► Not at on infinite loop but an extension of infinite loops campus in an outbuilding where they had at the time
00:17:40 ◼ ► Obviously that's all been moved over to the new headquarters. But at the time they had their mac development components
00:17:46 ◼ ► They had their their their laboratory machine shop, you know with literal the machines they use to
00:18:06 ◼ ► This was their actual machine shop set up like a real machine shop smelled like one felt like one, you know
00:18:12 ◼ ► But now of course they have this pristine new ufo thing and so like it also feels like wow
00:18:18 ◼ ► Wow, where that feels like an ancient piece of history, you know when they're when they were doing it from that location, too
00:18:25 ◼ ► so one of the weird things and I I I obsess over these things that you know today is further from blank than
00:18:32 ◼ ► Blank was from this thing. That doesn't seem like it was that much further behind it and
00:18:37 ◼ ► That the trash can for lack of I know people at apple hate hearing it called that the trash can mac pro the
00:18:57 ◼ ► That it was a mistake, you know as famously as federighi told us that they had painted themselves into a thermal corner
00:19:21 ◼ ► Then it's like the mac stagnates four years later. They called a bunch of us up had us come in for this truly
00:19:27 ◼ ► You know open discussion about this and it but it felt like it when we did that that that that cylindrical mac pro
00:19:35 ◼ ► Was old and stagnant, but that was only four years prior now here we are five years later
00:19:49 ◼ ► Ever more impressive and different expansion of apple silicon throughout the mac mac line
00:19:54 ◼ ► It's yeah, it's like that 70s show moment where like that 70s show today would be about like 2000
00:20:03 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly exactly or like when I was a kid happy days was about these kid teenagers in milwaukee in the 50s
00:20:13 ◼ ► In the 70s, it might as well have been about like a blincoln's time in the 1860s. I was like
00:20:19 ◼ ► Right. I don't know what's going on with this crazy music and they've got jukeboxes and these crazy cars
00:20:25 ◼ ► That was forever ago. Whereas it was really like 16 17 years or something like that. Yeah, exactly
00:20:38 ◼ ► You know, obviously it wasn't when we when we had that meeting and they were talking to us about it
00:20:46 ◼ ► The important context too to remember if people weren't like, you know reading those articles and remembering that is that
00:20:51 ◼ ► They were just telling us that they had done something wrong and they were not yet ready to say anything
00:20:57 ◼ ► About what they were doing to fix it, right? Right. They were just saying hey, this is the wrong way to go
00:21:10 ◼ ► That was bad and and and to emphasize that we we get that that what we have today with our mac pro
00:21:17 ◼ ► Is not suiting the needs of our pro customers on the mac and we are still committed to the mac. Yeah
00:21:23 ◼ ► It I I feel like there's something about it. We're just not sure what yet or we're not ready to talk about what yet, right?
00:21:37 ◼ ► You know that that they said something to the you know, they're like we really can't tell you what we have in mind
00:21:42 ◼ ► But we will tell you that one of the things we've been thinking was that we could do an iMac
00:21:48 ◼ ► That is more suited for our pro customers something like that. They didn't give us the name iMac pro, but it was
00:21:55 ◼ ► About as close as ever on or off the record anybody in apple product marketing has ever come
00:22:03 ◼ ► To spilling the name of an upcoming device. It was sort of like it would be an iMac and it would be pro
00:22:13 ◼ ► but we really do think that an iMac that is intended for our pro customers could be a really
00:22:20 ◼ ► Important product and we've been working on something like that that we you know, we'll have to show you, you know
00:22:55 ◼ ► and right and I really do think that there was that part of the the whole mac lineup seems stretched thin and
00:23:05 ◼ ► Really concerning that maybe the company is only concerned about as you described it in your article the volcanic
00:23:12 ◼ ► Popularity of ios devices and they just can't they just don't have the attention to worry about mac hardware
00:23:22 ◼ ► They were like at that point they could see where the apple silicon strategy was going to go
00:23:28 ◼ ► And they could imagine the sort of performance they were going to get maybe not exact numbers
00:23:33 ◼ ► But you know at least ballpark, you know, this is what we're going to be able to build in just a couple of years
00:23:38 ◼ ► What do we do in the me in the interim and you could see that they I think that there was sort of a
00:23:46 ◼ ► Running out the clock on intel like well, we can just you know, let's save our most impressive designs for the apple silicon
00:23:55 ◼ ► Because we can go thinner, you know, it's not just like let's save the good designs for our own silicon
00:23:59 ◼ ► It's our own silicon will enable us to make these fantastic designs that we can't make now with intel. So why even try with intel?
00:24:11 ◼ ► It's like a 15 inch pro in there somewhere that I don't know there was some questionable choices made in terms of
00:24:32 ◼ ► i'm, just not the the guy to remember all of the different architectures kaby lake and you know,
00:24:54 ◼ ► We don't really think we're ever going to get what we really want from them and we're working to build something that we think will
00:25:03 ◼ ► So we're just going to put in, you know an upgraded part very straightforward. This is not really a
00:25:09 ◼ ► New or or big jump forward, but it does serve customers who just need a new laptop, right?
00:25:15 ◼ ► Or need a new new new hardware now and then we'll keep working on this other thing, you know
00:25:20 ◼ ► And I think that answers a lot of the questions people had in the public about it about like hey
00:25:24 ◼ ► Why would you go with this part or why not push intel to do xy or or why not wait until this part?
00:25:30 ◼ ► Arrives to solve all your problems and apple's like saying hey, we got problems that we don't think intel's ever going to solve
00:25:35 ◼ ► I do think that one of the things that I see differently in hindsight is the imac pro and
00:25:48 ◼ ► Go pro with an all-in-one design because and I know that the apple has certainly starting from
00:25:56 ◼ ► That that roundtable discussion five years ago unbelievably, but they've started using the word modular a lot more
00:26:06 ◼ ► And I think for all the obvious reasons but an all-in-one imac pro is anti-modular, right? You've got this
00:26:21 ◼ ► They're actually slower than lots of much less expensive consumer oriented macs that are on
00:26:27 ◼ ► Newer intel chips, but especially for people whose main use case is not multi-threaded work, right? Exactly, right?
00:26:39 ◼ ► Slower because these are xeon chips and they take longer to come out on the same generation
00:26:53 ◼ ► A dozen different cpus and distribute this or or all the video and audio type things, uh
00:27:04 ◼ ► The performance was excellent and the thermals were amazing and the the first real hint as to apple's totally to me
00:27:16 ◼ ► Computer thermal system design, you know because one thing nobody ever really talked about with at least i'm not familiar with
00:27:24 ◼ ► Before the apple's iMac pro was nobody ever talked, you know, these intel xeon chips boy
00:28:11 ◼ ► compiling lots and lots of code across multiple cores and here get down there put your ear right next to the vents see what
00:28:19 ◼ ► You can hear and it's like yeah, I think I hear something but you know, it was clearly like within the placebo
00:28:30 ◼ ► That's that's been pressed for minutes doing one demo after another as groups went around the room
00:28:36 ◼ ► Yeah, this is quiet and cool and it's it doesn't feel like I could cook an egg on it or anything like that
00:28:41 ◼ ► This is pretty amazing. But in hindsight, it really was truly a stopgap design, right? And I think that it it that the
00:28:51 ◼ ► Announcement and and product release of the max studio and and the combination this both products this max studio and the studio display
00:29:06 ◼ ► What the iMac pro was meant for that audience is exactly the audience that is meant for the max studio with a studio display
00:29:15 ◼ ► And I think that that audience was sort of willing to accept the iMac pro because they got pretty much the world's best display
00:29:22 ◼ ► In a desktop, you know at that point and it's hard to argue against that right? It's hard to argue
00:29:29 ◼ ► What if I want a different setup because you go oh well, you know, I can extend the monitor
00:29:33 ◼ ► I obviously you can't use it as a target display which still remains a pain point, but you could
00:29:38 ◼ ► Ostensibly attach another monitor to it and you knew your main monitor was pretty damn good
00:29:43 ◼ ► This wasn't some sort of all-in-one where you're getting some subpar display and then you feel itchy about it, right?
00:29:48 ◼ ► It was the best monitor you could buy and so they felt as long as the performance was good. That's great
00:29:59 ◼ ► You know, you couldn't argue in any way shape or form that that was a modular design, right?
00:30:27 ◼ ► They were all you know, looks exactly like the previous generation, but we've upgraded to
00:30:46 ◼ ► Truly new intel based product and it shows you know, it's the the fact and again though
00:31:03 ◼ ► yes, yeah, the air channeling and the cheese grater and the the a very aggressive stand for the monitor and
00:31:40 ◼ ► It looks exactly like the 27 inch 5k iMac that had been out since 2014 or so or 2013 whenever it was
00:31:57 ◼ ► Crazy much more powerful and hotter xeon chips to run within the same form factor as the regular consumer 5k
00:32:06 ◼ ► And so the opposite of that would be the Mac Pro where it's like, okay, you want a a big desktop rig?
00:32:11 ◼ ► Here you go. You could you know, you you could fit like a small dog in here, you know, no problem, right?
00:32:31 ◼ ► Which we'll get to later in the show, but I don't think anybody thinks the apple silicon Mac Pro is going to look
00:32:37 ◼ ► Exactly like the Intel one. I don't because I don't think there's any reason to make it that big
00:32:42 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know. I mean we can I don't know if you want to segue into talking about that later. Yeah, let's
00:32:52 ◼ ► But yeah, they said they this introduction so that you mentioned the modularity which I think is an interesting
00:33:02 ◼ ► It's one of their favorite things to play with when we were talking about the Mac Pro and when they were
00:33:14 ◼ ► It's like hey, we don't know what we're going to do yet or maybe they did internally but they weren't saying but we didn't
00:33:19 ◼ ► We wanted to acknowledge publicly to our pro users that we see you we hear you yada yada, right?
00:33:29 ◼ ► They came out with I went to the HQ and they grew like hey we we're gonna talk about this
00:33:34 ◼ ► We want to know if you want to talk to this team. We've built this new team and that's the pro pro workflows team, right?
00:33:40 ◼ ► And that was the first time they had talked about it publicly it honestly don't think it had been formed that
00:33:45 ◼ ► Much prior to me talking to them like they clearly were doing work and they it had existed for a while
00:33:56 ◼ ► Where they basically were following on that same line or the same vein where they're saying
00:34:01 ◼ ► Hey, remember when we said we were listening to you here's explicitly how we are listening to you, right?
00:34:06 ◼ ► We have these people who do nothing but talk to professionals about their workflows and the way that they use max
00:34:20 ◼ ► Right, like that was their whole purpose of they that's the message they wanted to get across
00:34:29 ◼ ► Had a lot to say about modularity, right? Like we know pros do different things. They do different kinds of work
00:34:45 ◼ ► You know we come up with for the mac pro and when they did it when they did announce it. It was very modular
00:34:53 ◼ ► Right, they had custom cards. They had compatibility with external suppliers and external manufacturers of cards all this stuff
00:35:26 ◼ ► mac studio and I think it's very interesting curious to hear what you that you think about this, but
00:35:41 ◼ ► And then you have a monitor and that's modular and then of course that's supported by a lot of external supports which also supports
00:35:49 ◼ ► Modularity like external devices being plugged in right right and so like their their version or their definition
00:36:14 ◼ ► And I know that sounds that sounds hyperbole to say that he you know that you can overstate his influence
00:36:31 ◼ ► I I really don't think you can lay that at johnny ives feet. I think his influence was in there somewhere, you know
00:36:44 ◼ ► I mean, I know people I know marquez brownlee posted a funny video where he was like your move tim cook
00:36:50 ◼ ► And he showed that he turned his old one into a planter, you know, like how can you reuse it's a beautiful case it really is
00:37:04 ◼ ► Like when you spin it around and look at all the ports. I mean it was not like some sort of
00:37:09 ◼ ► Johnny, ives white universe here's this beautiful small device with one port on the back, you know
00:37:20 ◼ ► But somehow one of the things that I do think they lost their way on and the modularity to me really fills in that gap
00:37:45 ◼ ► I guess or 99 maybe it was when the iBooks the first iBooks came out the ones that were orange and
00:38:02 ◼ ► Portable right and there was one mac for each of those things pro desktop was the mac pro or I guess the the power mac
00:38:15 ◼ ► The pro desktop was the power book and our laptop and the consumer laptop was the iBook. There you go four max
00:38:34 ◼ ► You can buy like an iphone 11 or an iphone 12 from last year to save a couple hundred bucks
00:38:40 ◼ ► You can get the iphone se which was just renewed with the new chips if you really want the lowest priced iphone and
00:38:59 ◼ ► With with the two lens camera and then we've got the regular size and the max size with the three-legged
00:39:24 ◼ ► There's there's and it's funny because it's the last thing mac users have always talked about right?
00:39:39 ◼ ► Why can you why can you configure an i5 that's so expensive? I don't get it. I don't understand it
00:39:49 ◼ ► Family to me is so clear. You've got the regular m1 and it's just great as is you don't need to upgrade at all
00:40:05 ◼ ► Thing for macbook airs and a consumer 13-inch macbook pro. You can put it in a mac mini
00:40:34 ◼ ► You put it in right? I cannot say you say max and it's we're talking about max max chips max, right?
00:40:44 ◼ ► But you've you know, you've got these two extra tiers for pro laptops pro and then max and then you've got with the studio
00:40:52 ◼ ► Two tiers the max from the laptops and then and one more level above it the ultra which is you know?
00:41:11 ◼ ► Anywhere vaguely resembling, you know, the macbook pros that came out last year or earlier
00:41:26 ◼ ► Like when you get to the ultra and you find out that it yes, it fits in this seven inch by seven inch square
00:41:38 ◼ ► For the power, but you know, you find out it is two pounds of copper that the m1 max chips don't need for the same thermal
00:41:45 ◼ ► Characteristics, you know, you're like, oh, yeah, you know that that's that's way too powerful to go into
00:41:58 ◼ ► I still wonder why if if there's a mistake that apple made over the last 10 years that I really feel
00:42:11 ◼ ► It was just just just an own goal was getting out of the display game. They never should have stopped making
00:42:22 ◼ ► You know and retina is what we wanted what everybody wanted was a 27 inch retina display
00:42:31 ◼ ► And I know that there were problems where like initially they had to have two video controllers to drive the you know
00:42:37 ◼ ► That's how you got all those pixels and they they just made it work and made it seem like one big display to the system
00:42:43 ◼ ► And there might have been issues doing that with an external display over a thunderbolt cable
00:42:49 ◼ ► But it was obviously technically possible at some point because lg was doing it right there, you know
00:42:54 ◼ ► And del shipped a 27 inch what we would call retina display, which they've canceled years ago
00:42:59 ◼ ► But that's the modularity that to me that they really lost for a few years there and booger even said it to you
00:43:06 ◼ ► In your interview with him that one of the use cases. It's it's so super common for pro users is to want to
00:43:14 ◼ ► take a macbook pro back and forth from their desk and just unhook a cable and go somewhere else or
00:43:20 ◼ ► In a lot of scenarios. I know people who've worked in like studio and you know actual student lowercase s studio environments where like
00:43:37 ◼ ► You could go to a coffee shop. You can go to a corner sit in a lounge chair or you can just go to one of these
00:43:51 ◼ ► And that's got to be super common on like movie sets commercial sets anywhere where people are shooting video where people are, you know
00:43:59 ◼ ► You might want to start putting together a rough cut of the edit and you're using a macbook pro because it's a dynamic situation
00:44:12 ◼ ► Idea of modularity referring to hey you keep a display for 10 years and you upgrade your desktop
00:44:22 ◼ ► Right. I don't i'm not arguing against it necessarily. I just think it's it's worth noting
00:44:34 ◼ ► We don't actually know what the new mac pro is going to look like right and you you talked about that a little bit earlier
00:44:41 ◼ ► So do we think it's going to have a bunch of cards? Do we not do we think it's going to look significantly different?
00:44:56 ◼ ► To include both the original definition, which is you can put a bunch of cards in this thing
00:45:00 ◼ ► right and add on a bunch of additional physical storage or or long-term storage etc and
00:45:05 ◼ ► It means a monitor right an external monitor and it's like it's it's like an expansion of that now
00:45:11 ◼ ► You could say look look the xdr was an external monitor. So the definition was already there
00:45:22 ◼ ► Positioned as something where hey, this is extensible. I think that the biggest way that it plays out is that
00:45:40 ◼ ► For the price for the average user for the desktop user that they actually get away with it
00:45:54 ◼ ► And you could just be plugging a bunch of additional things into it. It's just got such just massive performance overhead
00:46:08 ◼ ► Like it reminds me like that when they were talking when they showed the performance charts and when you can actually compare the real world performance
00:46:14 ◼ ► As we were doing our testing and all that and especially as we you see some of the ultra
00:46:19 ◼ ► Benchmarks, which I didn't I don't have an ultra to test but as you see some of the actual real world tests of it
00:46:29 ◼ ► Vin did this Vin Diesel movie. It's like kind of like a camp. Do you remember the scene i'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
00:46:35 ◼ ► I hate to admit it, but i've seen the movie. Yeah. Yeah, and it's a when he goes there's a scene where he's talking to
00:46:42 ◼ ► The Q equivalent, right? Yeah, there's always a Q equivalent because it's like a bond bond like like a rogue-like
00:46:51 ◼ ► showing him all of the different weaponry and he's showing them the car that he has for him and
00:46:56 ◼ ► He basically says, you know, I want all of that in here, right? Like i'll take it all i'll take all the weapons, right?
00:47:03 ◼ ► Just put them fit them all in the car and then he proceeds to use them all over the next the car chase, right?
00:47:18 ◼ ► I want some modularity and I'd like the ability to have an external monitor that I like and it just you sort of get it
00:47:34 ◼ ► Situation that makes it very easy to sell and very easy to talk about. It's just a matter of how long it's going to
00:47:44 ◼ ► Last in terms of extensibility, right? And I think that's the argument the modularity argument people are trying to to wrap their heads around
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00:49:09 ◼ ► You got to get it. You need it by tomorrow morning have them send it and they have a restore return refund program
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00:50:55 ◼ ► Should have stormed the stage and slapped somebody because he was robbed that was that was his masterpiece before we get to the mac pro
00:51:04 ◼ ► And sort of fill in the gaps of where we think the mac lineup is headed as now as we head towards the end of the m1
00:51:15 ◼ ► Even if we're talking about like mac books and consumer products it you have to still talk about the mac pro because
00:51:28 ◼ ► But basically what he said is with the m1 ultra we have our final chip in the m1 family
00:51:38 ◼ ► We have one more machine to come the mac pro, but it it if the mac pro is coming like at
00:52:01 ◼ ► Dual m1 ultras or something like that. Well, I give you know, maybe we should talk about the the mac pro now
00:52:07 ◼ ► We'll save the mac book discussion for later. Well, I think look the studio just like capra the studio is so
00:52:19 ◼ ► Well, I think a lot of people and we can I mean if you want to talk about display separately
00:52:24 ◼ ► you can definitely have qualms about the display one way or another in in terms of its panel quality or
00:52:47 ◼ ► Your only argument you're going to find from a lot of people is that oh I need more in terms of modularity, right?
00:52:58 ◼ ► Like that's this is our missing piece. They're saying we're going to you know, get the m1 into this thing that we know
00:53:17 ◼ ► Literally, I the two scenarios seem to be either the mac pro is going to go to apple silicon
00:53:40 ◼ ► wwdc will be you know, like the second monday of june or something like that the traditional schedule and you're talking about announce, right?
00:53:51 ◼ ► Right or like september or october just say late say later this year give give give themselves some slack
00:54:05 ◼ ► They had them there for attendees to to ogle and look at and they had this dude the pro display xdr
00:54:13 ◼ ► Were there on display for everybody to look at and they said these products will be shipping later this year
00:54:18 ◼ ► And then they shipped later that year. I I would think something like that where they would announce the mac pro with dual
00:54:32 ◼ ► I don't know what that technology would be. I don't know why they wouldn't give it its own name, but there'd be some sort of
00:54:40 ◼ ► Just about anybody's so you're saying basically you don't see them just saying hey m1 ultra
00:54:58 ◼ ► And now there's not a lot of them, but we've got the the macbook pros go from the m1 pro to the m1 max
00:55:05 ◼ ► And the mac studios go from the m1 max to the m1 ultra so I would guess that there's some similar
00:55:16 ◼ ► The least performance in the mac pro which is starting from you know race car level of performance
00:55:44 ◼ ► MacBook air running the m2 right right which is going to happen right the m2 right will have faster single core performance
00:56:05 ◼ ► The m2 with the m1 introduction because there were some people who thought maybe we'd see like new macbook airs this month, too
00:56:14 ◼ ► Yeah, introducing the m2. I'm not saying they couldn't do that and intel has obviously done that, you know and had
00:56:51 ◼ ► And again, I have no inside information. No sources. No little birdies, but they said, you know when they introduced apple silicon in
00:57:03 ◼ ► And it seems to me like they've been firing on all cylinders even with those two years being
00:57:29 ◼ ► You know make tim cook a man of his word that it would be a two-year transition and then ship
00:57:42 ◼ ► Consumer max shipped so I still kind of think that that's what they're doing. I have no idea how they're going to pull it off
00:57:53 ◼ ► Last of the m1 chips then what is what's left for the mac pro, right? I mean, so they I guess
00:58:10 ◼ ► Some sort of m1 ultra quad configuration right which the way the interconnect works, you know
00:58:21 ◼ ► Doing more, you know like the architecture does not rule out them doing more. So let's say it's an
00:58:35 ◼ ► All right m1 ultra times two right m1 ultra max, but the other possible scenario is that they introduce the m2 with the mac pro
00:58:43 ◼ ► Right and say hey, this is the pinnacle. This is the new pinnacle and that way it doesn't get lapped for
00:58:56 ◼ ► I don't know how long you know before they introduce the m2 into the rest of the line out of those two
00:59:14 ◼ ► If this thing is not going to sell like crazy, right? Right, like they know that it's going to sell in limited quantities
00:59:38 ◼ ► And so I think that that's that's the way I look at that and you know, especially considering that the m2
00:59:51 ◼ ► To have even more impressive power per watt ratings. It's going to be much more well received much
01:00:04 ◼ ► Yeah, and you know and the the idea I spitballed on my show last week with casey lis is just okay
01:00:11 ◼ ► So we've got this footprint with the mac studio and it looks you know, you squint your eyes
01:00:19 ◼ ► But who's to say the mac mini couldn't get a lot smaller, right that you can make you know
01:00:24 ◼ ► Because look at how small cell an iphone is which I know doesn't have the m1 but it's you know
01:00:35 ◼ ► I really think that they could make a mac nano for lack of a better name that is defined solely by the ports
01:00:42 ◼ ► Well, what what ports do we absolutely need to have on this? That's how big it it'll be, you know
01:00:58 ◼ ► Something like that, right, right, right. I don't know it it's but I do think the other thing too and again, I don't know
01:01:14 ◼ ► Just observing the way not just apple's chip team, but just the way the industry works you come out with these new
01:01:27 ◼ ► Maybe they'll get the three nanometer. Maybe it's like a new five a new version of five nanometer for the m2 series
01:01:40 ◼ ► It takes more time because you have to do that first then they ship first then a way to put two of them together
01:01:45 ◼ ► and get a pro version that comes later and then there's four of them together and you get the max and
01:01:50 ◼ ► You know and you you grow it from there, but it just seems like that's just the way the industry works. It just
01:02:11 ◼ ► The other ideas for the mac pro that would separate it from the mac studio because that's the other thing
01:02:27 ◼ ► I think one of the reasons is of course everybody who wants a mac pro has been waiting to hear about it
01:02:37 ◼ ► People could reasonably look at the highest end config of the mac studio and say well, I guess that's the new mac
01:02:44 ◼ ► Yeah, okay the ram the the maximum amount of ram you can put in is only only 128 gigabytes
01:02:51 ◼ ► But compared to today's mac pro running intel that's actually a very small minimum, right?
01:02:59 ◼ ► If you really are just need I need all the gpu I can get and all I need a cpu for is to run the software
01:03:09 ◼ ► That's my pro task. You can't really do that with the mac studio you but but you could you could certainly believe that apple
01:03:27 ◼ ► Right. So by saying but we still have one more to come it's you know, it's a way of saying this mac studio
01:03:41 ◼ ► So it that would it's trying to tell people what version of the multiverse they're in right?
01:03:45 ◼ ► But that those would be those would be my two ideas for ways just broad broad strokes to separate, you know
01:03:52 ◼ ► Well, why would somebody be interested in this hypothetical? Well, not even hypothetical gpu and ram and ram
01:04:01 ◼ ► It is some kind of way and I know that all the ram so far in the unified memory architecture is on the system
01:04:09 ◼ ► On a chip and it's shared and there's all sorts. It must be fascinating how they've got the ultra to work
01:04:17 ◼ ► Each of these they're like bridges between systems on a chip and each of the systems on a chip has
01:04:35 ◼ ► My guess would be something something where you can have extra ram slots and there'd be some
01:05:09 ◼ ► and there'd be like up to 128 gigabytes of ram that is unified memory and it's the very fastest and
01:05:36 ◼ ► If you're talking about extensibility for a pro user and somebody says hey, I love one terabyte, you know 3d files, right?
01:05:46 ◼ ► Because uma doesn't mean anything once like, you know 128 gigabytes of uma doesn't mean anything when I get to that point
01:06:03 ◼ ► Right and you know and you you i'm thinking that in theory you'd only hit that performance thing when you're doing a task
01:06:18 ◼ ► Nothing, I do whatever go past that and somebody in the scientific community or doing some kind of crazy big render
01:06:35 ◼ ► Right, like every most everybody's fine with their fanny pack. They got the chapstick in it
01:06:39 ◼ ► They got their keys and if you need to get in your backpack to get your snacks or your camp stove out
01:06:43 ◼ ► It's going to cost you time and energy and awkwardness to get there, but you've got it if you need it
01:06:49 ◼ ► Yeah, that's it. I think that can that could work. Maybe that would be the name of the chip design fanny pack backpack fanny pack
01:06:54 ◼ ► I like it. I I would really like to see I would really like to see johnny serugi call it a fanny pack
01:07:11 ◼ ► I would love to because he certainly seems like a fascinating individual and you and I are lucky enough in this racket
01:07:16 ◼ ► Even though over the last two years we didn't didn't get to see anybody. I would love to in these videos. I find it. So
01:07:29 ◼ ► He doesn't seem angry in in like he's angry at people. It seems to me like he's just angry at
01:08:00 ◼ ► And paying a non-stop penalty back and forth with every frame they render i'm just furious
01:08:06 ◼ ► I can't I could not stand it. I couldn't sleep. I haven't slept in three years. I'm so angry
01:08:12 ◼ ► But I do think I I because you know that then there's there's the and again it gets to that modular
01:08:18 ◼ ► Inside the box as opposed to the box being you know, the actual mac being part of the modular setup to a display ram would be one
01:08:29 ◼ ► Spitballing because I don't know what this would be but you might have a better idea but something something expandable
01:08:44 ◼ ► That's that's an intel x86 architecture thing. It would be from apple, right but something
01:09:05 ◼ ► Obviously you're gonna have the gpu on board which they seem to be in in early benchmarks to be very respectable, but they are nobody's
01:09:24 ◼ ► Pinnacle right and it seems to me everything about this era of apple silicon is about pinnacle
01:09:33 ◼ ► Max are amazing to use but you're not going to get the edge right because we believe the ease of use is better
01:10:07 ◼ ► Fun and familiarity the whimsy right, right, right, right the whimsy exactly and in apple's case their whimsy is theoretically
01:10:14 ◼ ► Ease of use right? It's that's always been their thing. It's like hey, you know, it's accessible. It's easy to use
01:10:20 ◼ ► it doesn't get in your way as a professional and as a creative and that was what the the
01:10:26 ◼ ► Attraction was to people who weren't in it to prove that they were good at using computers
01:10:32 ◼ ► Right. I think there's a certain a certain amount of that and i'm not saying it's necessarily bad
01:10:40 ◼ ► Right who was wanted to build a machine and utilize the machine and max it out just to prove that I could
01:10:46 ◼ ► And just to just be like hey i'm good at using computers. I'm I want to maximize my usage but in all reality
01:10:53 ◼ ► I even if I build the best machine in the world, I utilize its maximum capabilities for
01:11:02 ◼ ► Like i'm maybe a very high performance game right that i'm playing or whatever most of the time it sits there and doesn't do shit
01:11:10 ◼ ► It's I did it because I wanted to and that's great and apple has generally shied away from that
01:11:19 ◼ ► Or in hardware because they just because they could right they want to do it in in sort of search of a user or a user's
01:11:28 ◼ ► Needs and that has historically been the way that they go about this, but I think they're sort of exiting that era
01:11:33 ◼ ► Not at least not in their minds. They would never say they would right because they philosophically they want to keep that
01:11:42 ◼ ► Oh, this apple computer is the best computer i've ever used. I just wish it was more powerful
01:11:56 ◼ ► Then it would stand to reason that they're about to get into the gpu game and the mac pro is where they begin
01:12:08 ◼ ► Performance-wise and when you compare performance to what it really you really can't say they're they're the best
01:12:24 ◼ ► Sure, then your best solution still might be some sort of x86 system if you've got code that needs to run it or you know
01:12:31 ◼ ► If you're running if it's windows based right and what are the fastest windows machines you can buy? Well, they're still x86 and if
01:12:48 ◼ ► Hedge our bets here and start porting something so we can run to the mac whether it's an internal tool or a commercial tool
01:12:59 ◼ ► You know publicly available software or private internal software. It might be happening
01:13:12 ◼ ► With the ultra and say this is the highest performing gpu on the market hands down and I really i'm with you
01:13:23 ◼ ► Last five years of okay. Let's rethink this back to the drawing board. Why aren't we the greatest computing?
01:13:30 ◼ ► Performance company on the planet. I was trying to trying to explain to jonas the other day talking about the mac studio about
01:13:45 ◼ ► Were completely divided right and that there are these companies and he's heard of them
01:13:51 ◼ ► I mean, they're not, you know, it's not they've completely been forgotten but like silicon graphics and sun
01:13:59 ◼ ► Their starting price for getting like a silicon graphics workstation on your desk was like 15 20 000
01:14:25 ◼ ► They sort of reached into workstation territory performance wise and then just you know, sort of you know as often happens
01:14:43 ◼ ► Architectural world until arm came up from the bottom on performance per watt and and surpassed them
01:14:53 ◼ ► By you know, 10 15 years ago all those companies were gone, right? You know, they're right
01:15:07 ◼ ► It was still running the same operating system as a 400 consumer box. You could get it best buy
01:15:25 ◼ ► Catching on. Yeah. I mean my definition of an elden ring machine was the previous definition of
01:15:32 ◼ ► A high-end workstation, right? Right. I mean sure obviously with some concessions tool to my particular use case
01:15:39 ◼ ► And away from things like banks of storage or redundancy and things like that, but at its core
01:16:10 ◼ ► just a couple of form factors and then within each form factor a couple of tiers of performance, but basically
01:16:28 ◼ ► You can configure a max studio with a low amount of ssd storage and 128 gigabytes of ram
01:16:35 ◼ ► Or the other way if you need eight terabytes of ssd storage, which is you know by ssd standards a lot
01:16:43 ◼ ► You can get it and then you could just take the minimum amount of ram on the machine, you know, it's so there's you know
01:16:54 ◼ ► Whatever your business is maybe it's aerospace engineering and you're you work at boeing and you test the the the wing stability
01:17:05 ◼ ► And it doesn't it's I don't know. I don't even maybe that's I think that's cpu, you know
01:17:15 ◼ ► If you could configure a machine with a terabyte of ram, you'll take it if you could get two terabytes
01:17:24 ◼ ► Boeing, but you don't need gobs and gobs of gpu. Well, then that that should be modular
01:17:35 ◼ ► Most performant gpu if all you really need out of a mac pro is ram or vice versa if you're doing
01:17:41 ◼ ► Some kind of crazy thing where you need as many gpu cores as you can possibly fit in a box and have the system see
01:17:47 ◼ ► But you don't need a preposterous amount of ram then you shouldn't have to pay for that either especially not at custom build prices
01:18:04 ◼ ► Theoretically a class of customer versus an individual but you are basically saying, you know, you're getting custom built
01:18:24 ◼ ► Hey, we don't like the way you're doing things like this is really annoying and frustrating
01:18:37 ◼ ► Chill and so apple probably had those conversations and apple's got a lot more clout than the individual user, right?
01:18:45 ◼ ► I was so they probably went to itdell and said hey, we want these things and intel's like nah, you know, we've got a roadmap, right?
01:18:51 ◼ ► And they said all right. We'll just custom build it for our customers then right and that is a that's an interesting tag to take
01:18:59 ◼ ► Then theoretically they should be able to adjust twiddle those dials of like cost and modularity and capability
01:19:19 ◼ ► Yeah, I and that's that would be a goal. I would think I I really do think that if apple couldn't
01:19:25 ◼ ► Convince intel to steer their roadmap into into apple friendly ways. There's no way any
01:19:30 ◼ ► Individual customer is right and I I think the best example of that is the long delay between the pre-retina
01:19:38 ◼ ► MacBook air and the retina macbook air. Yes, and you know, I was told off the record by you know, very good sources the you know
01:19:48 ◼ ► Basically nothing from intel that would let apple build the retina macbook air they wanted to make and they had to you know
01:19:58 ◼ ► With a retina display that they wanted to and that they were proud of and thought was thin enough and looked like the future
01:20:07 ◼ ► Years behind where apple thought it should have been in their hands, but you know wasn't their control
01:20:21 ◼ ► Empties behind so much of this. I mean you have the bottom up impetus of hey, we can accomplish this and we can do this and
01:20:36 ◼ ► Also that that uh whole layer of this is out of our hands and we never want it to be out of our hands again
01:20:48 ◼ ► Extraordinarily unoriginal it gets made all the time, but it is sort of like being a consumer company like honda or mercedes-benz
01:21:06 ◼ ► You know and and build these crazy engines and you know part of it is prestige and pride and that you
01:21:16 ◼ ► It's a magnet for engineering and design talent too, but I you know, i've always been open to the idea
01:21:42 ◼ ► Which I always thought was like the best car name because they it was a prelude of technology
01:21:47 ◼ ► That was going to come to the accords and the civics and the cars that people actually bought, you know
01:21:54 ◼ ► Well, I think the more proletariat and fall this loosely proletariat example of this at least at least more grounded is the mercedes e-class
01:22:02 ◼ ► Right mercedes e-class debuted. I think three-point harnesses and side airbags and a bunch of other stuff
01:22:08 ◼ ► And maybe not three points. So don't get on me car people but you know, they they debuted a bunch of safety and security
01:22:39 ◼ ► So whether you think of their prestige racing team as something where that is like a skunk works for new features or whatever
01:22:53 ◼ ► Necessities or expected and then once the customer expects them and once it's become de rigueur
01:22:59 ◼ ► Or you know part of the the fabric of what's expected in that class of car. It's unavoidable at that point
01:23:06 ◼ ► Yeah, and i'll i'll toss out an area that I do know more about which is cameras and that in the traditional camera market, you know
01:23:15 ◼ ► Thousand multi-thousand dollar lenses, you know for and and they've got some crazy lenses that if you don't know you need it
01:23:36 ◼ ► Well, what did serving that market do for the consumer market who were for years and years and years were buying point and shoots
01:23:49 ◼ ► Autofocus especially is a huge huge thing and then most people don't realize that but autofocus was absolutely developed for the sports market specifically
01:24:03 ◼ ► Definitely trickled down to a consumer point and shoot over the next two decades, right?
01:24:07 ◼ ► And to the point where then once it came you it would be hard to convince somebody like of our children's age
01:24:20 ◼ ► And you know and they oh and they'd have little tricks like that little thing right in the center would look sharper
01:24:33 ◼ ► Yep, and and of course like once the technology exists it gets refined and refined and refined right because the initial
01:24:45 ◼ ► Well initially it was diopter based and then contrast based and then you move from there to pixel based which is the most common
01:24:52 ◼ ► Uh methodology now still where basically on a pixel by pixel basis. It says hey do these two things match up?
01:24:58 ◼ ► Right, you know and if they if they do they're in focus, so there's just like lots of really interesting
01:25:07 ◼ ► When you apply it, I mean to bring it back to the mac pro like when you applied to some like the back pros
01:25:15 ◼ ► That thing for the mac pro because we're sort of working in reverse from that right now
01:25:25 ◼ ► Or not enough for better for worse, but in general terms is going to run the mac pro, right? Like the mac
01:25:36 ◼ ► But a version of the macbook airs processor is going to run the mac pro and it debuted in the macbook air
01:25:41 ◼ ► Right, right. I would technically debut in the iphone, but we you know, let's just call it m1
01:25:54 ◼ ► You know edge of the envelope stuff is still out there to be conquered by apple and gpu's are a big big one
01:26:07 ◼ ► And then in five years or three years, you know, the macbook has a macbook air has a g1. Yeah, right
01:26:14 ◼ ► Yeah, or or g2 or whatever the case yeah or a g something right the g, you know, exactly, you know
01:26:28 ◼ ► They I could see them doing like the g1i or something like that, you know tak an eye on to mean it's we took this great graphics
01:26:35 ◼ ► Processor and shrunk it down to fit in your phone and it doesn't get hot and doesn't suck the battery
01:26:40 ◼ ► Yeah, but now you can push, you know, the two trillion polygons or whatever you want, right?
01:26:46 ◼ ► Now you can play fortnite and max settings on your iphone and you know, yeah. All right
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01:29:25 ◼ ► Spitball ideas on what they could do. Do you think do you think the pro display xdr is getting revised?
01:29:30 ◼ ► There's the craziest rumor was from that ross young who's who's a display analyst who still thinks that there's a pro
01:29:40 ◼ ► apple display coming which to me seems like the most bananas prediction i've ever heard like
01:29:46 ◼ ► I totally get the division between the mac studio display or the studio display and the pro display xdr, right as you know, two
01:30:01 ◼ ► But I kind of feel at the high end of the display market a lot of stuff has changed since 2019
01:30:12 ◼ ► And and if you're in that market, it seems like you you know, you really want the best you want the least
01:30:19 ◼ ► White text on the black background, you know, you you don't you don't want to see any bloom anything else
01:30:27 ◼ ► i'm glad that I I had tested the xdr so long ago and then sent it back so long ago that
01:30:41 ◼ ► but i'm coming off of like a 2014 inch iMac and so that's why I didn't lean too much into the the
01:30:46 ◼ ► Display, I say look it looks good to me. I didn't lean too much in display comparator and comparators because I have like an LG curved
01:31:14 ◼ ► But I understand a lot of people were really bothered by bloom and all of that stuff and I get it
01:31:18 ◼ ► But it looks great to me. I mean, especially in comparison to the 2014 iMac, which whatever, you know
01:31:39 ◼ ► Display that ticks off every box they want and comes in at a reasonable price, but I feel like this is it I always
01:31:54 ◼ ► Which would apply to mac criticism from the pc side and especially iphone criticism from the android side where?
01:32:10 ◼ ► It doesn't have this and here's an android phone that has it and it doesn't have that and here's an android phone that has it
01:32:16 ◼ ► And it doesn't do this and here's an android phone that has a you know, 20x optical lens
01:32:30 ◼ ► Then you could you could find a phone that had it but it's they'd speak that android has this that and the other
01:32:40 ◼ ► And I break out the duct tape, right? Right. And so I sort of feel like the criticism of the studio display is like that
01:33:15 ◼ ► This is the best panel on the market right now there, you know, and no it doesn't have some of those other features
01:33:20 ◼ ► but there are no there is no one display you can go out and buy that ticks all those boxes and
01:33:25 ◼ ► 27 inches with 4k resolution is just not it's not retina by mac standards and I know the pc world is different in that regard
01:33:39 ◼ ► gamers in particular aren't even interested in all those pixels because they don't want to push them, you know, it's
01:33:49 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, I think that the bad value crowd, you know in terms of this studio display
01:33:53 ◼ ► Is very much coming from that place. I think you've kind of summed it up nicely that if their conclusion is a bad value
01:34:05 ◼ ► Register the vast majority of customers for this monitor don't even register, right? Now
01:34:19 ◼ ► Whether or not this is something that they want to invest in and that's the high end of that market, right?
01:34:25 ◼ ► 10 of all studio customers right should really ask themselves like do I want the best image quality possible?
01:34:48 ◼ ► Said on the show that I would like to see the nano texture before I make a purchasing decision
01:34:53 ◼ ► And my local apple store here in center city, philadelphia doesn't have them on display king of prussia mall
01:35:04 ◼ ► My wife and I went shopping on saturday had lovely time. It was such a nice like hey life is getting back to normal
01:35:17 ◼ ► It's I haven't ordered yet because i'm an idiot and I know they're back ordered and I should order it
01:35:22 ◼ ► I should have already done it but i'm going to and it was funny because I was sort of thinking that because the apple stores
01:35:27 ◼ ► Have such pleasant lighting that it might be a bad environment to compare but it actually is lighting
01:35:36 ◼ ► It was actually terrific is because it's like you can absolutely see the lights reflected once you
01:35:44 ◼ ► When even my wife who isn't picky about such things and if we had others shopping to do, you know bought other stuff
01:35:50 ◼ ► It wasn't like we went all the way out there just so I could look at the nano texture display because in which case
01:36:10 ◼ ► This is amazing. I can't believe this, you know, and you know again, it's not like the regular glossy finish displays look bad
01:36:23 ◼ ► Inside the apple store is just tremendous and for me with the sunlight issues in my office. I think it's great
01:36:38 ◼ ► Really risk putting my nose up against the screen and I could see okay. I I see that this is not so sharp
01:37:01 ◼ ► You could probably see a difference in sharpness and it might bother you. I totally get that but the decrease in
01:37:13 ◼ ► I've been I have the non obviously nanotexture for this display or this review and i'm trying to decide which one i'm in order
01:37:20 ◼ ► Because I probably will order a studio as I mentioned i'm on a quite an old iMac. So it's about time and I I do
01:37:30 ◼ ► Yeah to test I had one to test for a bit and it was the the nanotexture and it's fantastic
01:37:36 ◼ ► I mean the no glare is like zero glare. It's not the typical non-glare which is like less glare, you know
01:37:45 ◼ ► but I didn't have it to compare against like sharpness wise I can't say that the xdr is just
01:37:52 ◼ ► Unfathomably good to most people. Yeah, you know, they've never seen a monitor like this in person. It's so good, right? But it's also
01:37:59 ◼ ► Insanely expensive so it's never really on my radar as something that I would buy personally
01:38:05 ◼ ► I just can't you know justify it but you know the nanotexture part of it was so incredibly impressive
01:38:20 ◼ ► Which fortunately I do have like I have windows that are behind my monitor to some degree and they're usually covered by you know
01:38:27 ◼ ► Very diffuse blinds and there's just no direct impact on my screen from sunlight. So I don't get
01:38:33 ◼ ► Those rays that creep across in the afternoon or any of that jazz where it would be absolute a must
01:38:39 ◼ ► You know for me to to get it. So I don't I don't think i'm gonna buy I think i'm just gonna get the
01:38:46 ◼ ► I think that that's a call people have to make purely based on does sun touch your screen, right?
01:38:53 ◼ ► WVDC 2019 the the media we had like a hands-on tour after the keynote and they showed us stuff and and
01:39:10 ◼ ► Video pro reference monitors that they had but they had it set up in like a blackout room
01:39:30 ◼ ► That's the kind of setup you want feels like home. Yeah, it feels like home. It's like your editing bay
01:39:40 ◼ ► It was like you you you could have like a mirror finish and you wouldn't be able to tell in that room
01:40:06 ◼ ► Is if you didn't have the regular one next to it to see the reflections and the glossiness
01:40:14 ◼ ► The other thing about the nano texture is and I remember this now from seeing the xdr in 2019
01:40:20 ◼ ► It doesn't look matte to your eyes like so I totally get why they're not calling it a matte finish. It's not just
01:40:32 ◼ ► Three dollar series of hyphenated words to just say matte because it doesn't look matte
01:40:50 ◼ ► Treated with by blasting it to create that surface. It feels like when you look at frosted glass from the back side
01:40:56 ◼ ► Yeah, like you're looking at the non-frosted side of it, right? It's still soft. Yep. That's a perfect way to put it
01:41:02 ◼ ► I have one last sponsor to thank and then we can get to the home stretch of the show and it's our good friends at
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01:42:59 ◼ ► Membership. All right home stretch. Where do we think that the the m2 stuff is coming later later this fall?
01:43:10 ◼ ► You mean in what device or do you think it's what do you think they're going to do because
01:43:13 ◼ ► My key point that I said on the last episode with casey is that I just think we haven't seen
01:43:21 ◼ ► Designs for the macbook air or even the mac mini that are built around apple silicon yet
01:43:32 ◼ ► And and the very explain so in my discussions I can't remember I probably mentioned this publicly at some point but the basic
01:43:41 ◼ ► But the basic idea behind that was they knew they were doing something so big and so aggressive
01:43:51 ◼ ► Trying to launch new id and like having some like hinge or something be wrong, you know, like having an issue, right?
01:44:01 ◼ ► They took a design that had been around or a keyboard and that had proven itself. Yeah orange. Yeah, our keyboard
01:44:13 ◼ ► It's overshadowed, you know what they're trying to do with the rest of the thing, but yeah, exactly
01:44:22 ◼ ► And had time that to shake out the cobwebs and understand what worked and what didn't with it and then say, okay cool
01:44:29 ◼ ► Now let's launch our big new bet in the processor arena into this hardware and with this hardware
01:44:38 ◼ ► Let's see what happens with new hardware and new id and new processor and everything all at once which would have been
01:44:44 ◼ ► Interesting and even more exciting than say hey, here's the same computer with a different processor
01:45:04 ◼ ► Yeah, it is nice to concentrate on that because it's like with an iphone it's like oh man, look at all I got performance
01:45:09 ◼ ► I gotta talk about these edges and how it feels, you know feels against my fingers and i'm talking about the damn color and
01:45:15 ◼ ► You know, oh wait up at the processor and ram and oh, you know, and it's like it's a lot
01:45:19 ◼ ► It's a lot to juggle. So it makes it easier when you can concentrate but I think it was also just the right
01:45:24 ◼ ► absorption level for the public too because it was like hey, I don't think anybody was really getting all
01:45:36 ◼ ► I think the vast majority of the public is like oh cool macbook air still looks cool super thin. I like it
01:45:44 ◼ ► Oh now it's like way better and probably the most powerful computer you could buy. Oh, sure. Sounds good, right?
01:46:03 ◼ ► So why you know that wasn't the complaint that anybody had about the macbook at once it went to retina, right?
01:46:17 ◼ ► But now I think we're I think we're definitely going to see new industrial design and I really think it's a good bet
01:46:25 ◼ ► It is weird. I guess the thing that I think of when I when I think about it as a pundit is
01:46:32 ◼ ► At least for this first transition from m1 to m2. It's a full two-year cycle as it appears to be
01:46:43 ◼ ► November of 2020 they came out with the macbook air and the 13-inch macbook pro and a mac mini with the m1 chips and
01:46:52 ◼ ► Everybody reviewed them and raved about the performance and that the software experience was just seamless and even if you were running
01:46:59 ◼ ► Mac apps that hadn't been updated yet the the rosetta 2 did it just a terrific job. You probably won't even notice just terrific
01:47:11 ◼ ► Untouched unchanged unmodified untweaked for two years is is two years permanently the cycle
01:47:19 ◼ ► It I feel like it could be you know, like it because it seems like if they've got this whole
01:47:39 ◼ ► You know that it seems like two years might be the normal cycle for this. I I don't know. Is that weird?
01:47:49 ◼ ► Don't think so I think for a while I think this that's the thing about these things you make these
01:47:59 ◼ ► So you make these prognostications about the lineup and I think all too often we fall into this trap of like here's what it here's
01:48:05 ◼ ► The new way of being perpetuity right because everybody likes to make a grandiose statement
01:48:13 ◼ ► It's a pretty unique transitionary period and apple's timeline of everything they've done before
01:48:26 ◼ ► architecture and and taking control and saying hey, we're launching our own chips and we've got to obviously produce all of them and and
01:48:34 ◼ ► Put them all into our own hardware and market them and sell them and make sure that they work right and all of that stuff
01:48:46 ◼ ► So maybe the first launch of it is two years and then the thereafter it's whenever the new chips are ready, right?
01:48:53 ◼ ► And maybe that's one year. Maybe it's three years. I don't think that they're under any pressure
01:48:58 ◼ ► Because I think that previously the pressure was exerted externally people would say oh the new intel chips are here
01:49:04 ◼ ► When are the new macbooks coming with those intel chips in them because i'm going to wait for that
01:49:12 ◼ ► Definitely drove a lot of the cadence as much as they would like to say it probably didn't it's you know
01:49:18 ◼ ► It drives some of it for sure. And so I think that that's now they're sort of are able to chart their own course
01:49:26 ◼ ► Hey, when do we think we can ship a meaningful update that will move the needle on sales?
01:49:31 ◼ ► And that obviously there's internal pressures there, but they don't have this external pressure
01:49:36 ◼ ► So I think it's sort of a we have to wait and see rather than oh, this is the new pattern
01:49:45 ◼ ► They'll shake out the kinks and then they'll launch a quad or or or dual configuration or more powerful configuration
01:49:52 ◼ ► I could see that happening definitely through m2 maybe even m3, but it's sort of all bets are off really
01:49:58 ◼ ► Yeah, and the other thing too is it it could I think they could get away with the two-year cycle for a few generations
01:50:12 ◼ ► Fairly significant and in terms of its wow, this is actually, you know, you thought the m1 was good
01:50:18 ◼ ► Well now look at this it's even more efficient and faster. It's you know, it's enough of an upgrade
01:50:23 ◼ ► Where they still maintain their their lead that they've established over the rest of the industry and performance
01:50:33 ◼ ► a new refresh of the whole lineup every two years isn't giving the competition room to catch up if each
01:50:42 ◼ ► Within the apple silicon world is a big upgrade. The other thing I look at though pattern wise is
01:51:03 ◼ ► Nothing goes wrong is annual right that once a year every September unless there's a global pandemic
01:51:15 ◼ ► There's a new generation of iPhones and that there's a steady series of improvements every single year that you can notice and sure
01:51:25 ◼ ► you don't really notice that much of a difference going from the iPhone 11 to the 12 or the 12 to 13 but
01:51:32 ◼ ► By doing it every year when like a normal person you go from an iPhone 10s to an iPhone 13
01:51:43 ◼ ► but that that one year cycle for the phone that that's the phone being the phone and the the
01:51:49 ◼ ► The 1 billion users around the planet thing it I look at the iPads which are mostly on like an 18 month cycle
01:51:56 ◼ ► Right. It's it's not like clockwork like the phones where you could say the month of when they're going to announce them
01:52:04 ◼ ► Every 18 months or so. There's a new generation of iPad pros and the the new iPad air that came out this month
01:52:12 ◼ ► You know was last updated like a year and a half ago and now it's on the so presumably like one one way to look at
01:52:31 ◼ ► Then that would mean the iPads are a two-year cycle too, right? Because presumably the next iPad pro is going to have the M2
01:52:45 ◼ ► so, you know, I I don't I guess so that part of me just looking at the pattern would say maybe
01:52:50 ◼ ► Now that they've got their feet under them and they sort of had the first generation out the door and did it again during during a
01:52:58 ◼ ► A pandemic that somewhat disrupted the supply chain globally 18 months might be like the sort of goal
01:53:20 ◼ ► Yeah, the MacBook Air the M1 MacBook Air. No, no November 2020 November 20. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, so November 2020
01:53:54 ◼ ► That's that's hard it's interesting 18 months 18 months would put it two months away right right right
01:54:09 ◼ ► Wwdc, so maybe and theoretically a back throw right right. So it's weird. I don't think it weird one. Yeah, you know
01:54:17 ◼ ► Maybe the Mac pros the M2 launch. I mean, I know I just argued against it with three segments ago
01:54:27 ◼ ► Wwdc in two months would I would I have to go to the fainting couch? No, but I would just be pleasantly surprised
01:54:33 ◼ ► Surprised and just think right there. Right there really they're they're more on top of their game than I expected
01:54:48 ◼ ► November. Yeah, that's sort of or october maybe I you know october right because I think maybe like in the fall of 2020
01:55:00 ◼ ► And then the max which I think if everything had gone according to plan probably would have been a mid-october event where instead
01:55:06 ◼ ► Late november, you know it, you know, and I don't think that I tweeted something about it
01:55:12 ◼ ► Which is now gone because I delete all my tweets, which is so relaxing by the way, highly recommend. Oh, you're smart
01:55:19 ◼ ► it wasn't even like it's like I tweeted something ridiculous at some point as I I did but
01:55:29 ◼ ► I tried to reel it back. Anyway, that's another discussion, but I tweeted something during the event about
01:55:38 ◼ ► And I just don't I think the a series chips are around for a while still. I don't think they're going anywhere
01:55:42 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't think so. Like in other words you could say hey one way to debut the m2 would be in the iphone pro
01:55:48 ◼ ► You know what I mean, right, but I just don't think that's gonna happen yet. I think we're gonna see like an a16
01:56:04 ◼ ► and so like the bleeding edge of their new technology is always the a series chips in the iphones and
01:56:17 ◼ ► 18 months trickle out to the pro max ultra tiers and that's yeah, and there's some poetic and
01:56:40 ◼ ► Have the a series chips like there's some sort of poetic thing around that and maybe that comes to pass at some point
01:57:13 ◼ ► Is only going to be in the pros and that the non pros will still have the a15 that's a year old
01:57:19 ◼ ► Which is the same same thing? Yeah, it's the same thing, right? It's really a marketing exercise
01:57:23 ◼ ► But the other thing the one last point I want to I want to just get out before we wrap up and finish the show
01:57:29 ◼ ► Is that the one thing I think we're done with from apple across the board is the concept of speed bump updates
01:57:36 ◼ ► Right that you know that like well, we don't have a major redesign of this product, but you know, we're going to go from
01:58:08 ◼ ► But now if you want the highest end pro gpu in a macbook you could you can get a new option
01:58:23 ◼ ► Things like that that that people of our generations grew up with thinking that's how computers are if you just wait six months
01:58:46 ◼ ► They're not going to come out with a new one nine months later that makes you regret it
01:58:52 ◼ ► Like right now today as we're recording if you're in the market for a macbook air you you know
01:58:59 ◼ ► Put off your purchase till you know the end of the year. You're probably going to see new hardware
01:59:10 ◼ ► Yeah, and that you know, the externalities had a lot to do with that obviously as we talked about a little bit the intel
01:59:23 ◼ ► Right ship it mid-year and get a sales bump and you know provide users with an additional reason to buy or whatever
01:59:37 ◼ ► They could say that look this is better than any laptop you can buy pretty much right right now and for the next six months easily
01:59:47 ◼ ► On the supply chain is it adds an enormous amount of predictability and cost effective, you know cost efficiencies
02:00:10 ◼ ► And that they've evolved all of their product lines into a more supply chain friendly pattern
02:00:27 ◼ ► Leadership group and they're having the meeting and they're talking in the boardroom and they're like we want to you know
02:00:32 ◼ ► We got to get out from in the intel's thumb. We want to do all these cool things that we can't do
02:00:37 ◼ ► With intel the chip team tells me that they're confident that they can ship an iphone processor
02:00:46 ◼ ► It's just as powerful and in fact is way more powerful if we do it, right? We know this let's do it
02:00:55 ◼ ► If we went all out, you know and took a year to develop it and make it the most powerful chip you could possibly buy
02:01:03 ◼ ► Could we ship one and have it last for two years because in the second half of that lifespan i'll make double
02:01:11 ◼ ► You know, we'll make we'll make double on the chip right on on and obviously less than that overall profit margin
02:01:35 ◼ ► And you know, that's where they get their additional growth out of in terms of the shareholder value, right?
02:01:40 ◼ ► You know that what the shareholders want to see right and they can stand behind the product and say you that the customer who's buying
02:01:54 ◼ ► It'll be good for years to come but if you buy an old macbook air the day before the new ones announced, right?
02:02:01 ◼ ► Yes, you're not getting the new one, but you're still getting a better machine than everybody else is shipping for another six months to eight months
02:02:07 ◼ ► Yeah, and i'm sure like that conversation, you know, but but I really am i'm sure that the way you put it
02:02:15 ◼ ► He probably does I I just guessed that he's not a you know, he's a gregarious person on stage
02:02:22 ◼ ► I think he's you know, I think you have those meetings with him like a monday morning, you know executive meeting
02:02:44 ◼ ► It's always always fun catching up to you catching up with you. Hopefully in person sometime soon ish. Yeah, it'd be nice
02:02:59 ◼ ► Which i'm sure people have heard of your tweets. You're you're deleting your your your temporary stash of tweets are at at panzer
02:03:11 ◼ ► And I will limit it limited time engagement. Yeah. Yeah, so get them while they're fresh and I will thank
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