The Talk Show

338: ‘That’ll Pivot His Tables’, With Rene Ritchie


00:00:00   There's been some drama in the rumor community recently.

00:00:04   You sent me the link to... what was the guy's name? The guy who always had the

00:00:08   dreams? Kang. Oh, I love to dream in Kang and yeah.

00:00:12   Yeah, so well tell me about... for people who don't know, tell me about Kang.

00:00:18   So there was a few, like, I think like a lot of people who maybe listen to this

00:00:21   show are familiar with the American-based reporters like Mark

00:00:25   Germin or Jon Prosser, Evie Leakes, I don't know how to say it, Ev Leaks, Evie Leaks.

00:00:30   Yeah. There's just, there's a bunch of them,

00:00:31   just European-based too, but there was a growing contingent coming from China

00:00:35   where all the supply chain is. They had access to a lot of information

00:00:38   and that included Love to Dream and Kang and I don't know where Dylan DKT was

00:00:43   based, no idea, but there were quite a few people who were primarily Twitter leakers.

00:00:48   Which is... Or Weibo.

00:00:51   Right, which is weird, like, because I don't even understand what the... and I'm not so cynical as to

00:00:59   suggest that the only reason anybody would do anything is to be remunerated for it financially.

00:01:08   You know, there's certainly a lot of things I've done that I just, you know, give out to the world.

00:01:14   But it's the rumor thing in particular has often seemed, you know, there's always been

00:01:19   rumor sites go all the way back to ThinkSecret. I mean, ThinkSecret isn't even going all the way

00:01:24   back. There were sites in the 90s, you know, I forget some of the names, but I think there was

00:01:29   one, MacRumors, which is not to be confused with Mac OS Rumors. Or no, Mac OS Rumors, not to be

00:01:36   confused with the current, you know, long-running site MacRumors. I don't get the leaking on

00:01:42   Twitter thing, like what the idea is, but I guess it's just, you know, just for fun, for kicks.

00:01:48   It's for the lulz. They're like young and they have this information and they want to share it

00:01:51   and they get attention for sharing it. So was Kang someone in addition to I Love to Dream,

00:01:57   is he Kang would dress up his predictions as like dreams?

00:02:04   Maybe because I'm not familiar with the Weibo postings as much as I am the people who

00:02:09   summarized them. But he would come out like right before an event and basically just list out what

00:02:14   was going to be in the event. So it was never early, early on, like Mike Berman might start a

00:02:18   rumor or might report on a rumor three years before it happens. This was like a week or so

00:02:23   before it happened, but they were highly accurate. Right. And the idea here is that there's somehow

00:02:30   been a crackdown on them, but nobody is quite sure what it is. I will put a link in the show notes to

00:02:38   this MacRumors story talking about it, which goes back to June of last year. So it's not news, but

00:02:45   it leads to speculate, you know, people are thinking, is it Apple that cracked down?

00:02:50   Is it the supply chain? Because it seems to me like some of these leaks are clearly not just from

00:02:57   the supply chain, but from Asia, you know, and maybe English is the second language.

00:03:03   And is it, you know, is it second level? It's not like someone in Cupertino is directing some kind

00:03:10   of crackdown on Twitter leaks of Apple Rumors, but that, you know, from Cupertino to the supply chain,

00:03:17   like, hey, this, you know, this leak seemed to know, you know, an awful lot about this component,

00:03:22   which we know is only sourced from you. And then the component maker is cracking down somehow.

00:03:29   It's just, yeah, I mean, to your earlier point, like this kind of stuff is just,

00:03:34   it's part of human culture. There have been movie and TV Rumor sites and papers and rags,

00:03:40   like a lot of the Rumor sites started off as actual newsletters and papers for years. It's

00:03:45   just stuff people are interested in. Like, and the more secrecy there's around like a Marvel or Star

00:03:49   Wars project, the more people are interested and Apple's like that for electronics. And I think

00:03:54   that the main difference we're seeing here is that in the US and in North America and in Europe,

00:04:00   are very different kinds of protection for media because we call them leakers, but like Mark

00:04:04   Gurman is not a leaker. John Prosser is not a leaker. They are given information by leakers,

00:04:08   and then they report on it and that is protected. But in China, the laws are very different. And it

00:04:14   looks like one of the aspects was, I'm going to go back to the early days for a while, when the,

00:04:19   before the Verge was the Verge, they were, this is my next. And they published a rumor of an iPhone

00:04:23   5, a report of an iPhone 5 that was teardrop shaped famously, infamously, and a case company

00:04:29   went and made a ton of cases for it and it never existed, but they lost everything in that. And so

00:04:35   one of the, one of the statements we made in these, I don't know if they're lawsuits, if they're

00:04:39   demand letters, is that you are not only giving away our trade secrets by releasing this information

00:04:44   early, but you are potentially costing people in the accessory market money because some of these

00:04:49   things are not accurate and they're acting on them as though they are accurate. Right. And you don't

00:04:53   want to, I don't want to make light of it because I mean, if it's happening in China, it could be,

00:04:57   it could be worse, you know, like you get like a cease and desist letter in the US and it's like,

00:05:02   well, you, you know, you get to sit there and think about, well, do I comply? Do I call my

00:05:06   own lawyer? Do I just rip it up? What do I do? And it's like, you know, worse comes to worse,

00:05:11   you're just going to get another letter and, you know, you face some sort of legal consequences,

00:05:15   perhaps, but you know, in China, you know, it could be a knock on the door and it's, you know,

00:05:19   not good. And I really don't, yeah, but we do have rumors to discuss. I do want to discuss them,

00:05:28   but before that, I was thinking first thing we could do is talk about, oh, I have some follow-up,

00:05:35   do you mind? Oh, no, I love it. Important follow-up. Last, my last episode was with Jason

00:05:40   Snell and I think I offhandedly mentioned, we were talking about Apple TV, we were talking about his

00:05:46   report, the whole, our Apple report cards for 2021 and talking about Apple TV and, and a sort of

00:05:55   limbo that Apple TV, the hardware platform seems to be in within Apple where it's not like they're

00:06:04   disinterested. They just updated it last year. They made a better remote, but they also don't

00:06:08   seem fully interested there. You know, they're somewhere in between. And I was talking about

00:06:16   hooking up HomePods to an Apple TV to use as your sound system and how really truly happy I am with

00:06:24   two home, two full-size HomePods hooked up to my Apple TV. And then I mentioned something to the

00:06:29   effect of not being able to do that with HomePod minis, which I kind of knew was glossing over the

00:06:37   details, but it's, I should get into the details because I got a couple of emails saying, well,

00:06:41   no, you can hook HomePod minis up to Apple TV. I will put a link in the show notes to the Apple

00:06:47   support document. And the gist is HomePod mini does not support Dolby Atmos 5.1 or 7.1 surround

00:06:57   sound. Long story short. And I also think that even without getting into the technical details

00:07:04   of which specs like Dolby this, Dolby that, that it does or does not support, they're just not big

00:07:09   enough. They, for my living room, it's less about the technical aspects maybe even than just the

00:07:14   sound quality. Two HomePods fill my living room with very good sound that has room to go. We can

00:07:21   turn it up as loud as we feel is pleasant and there's still room to go. I don't think two HomePod

00:07:26   minis would. And it is kind of curious to me that they, I mean, you and I can talk about it. I mean,

00:07:32   I don't know. I know you care about the HomePods too, but it is weird that HomePod is left in a

00:07:37   situation where there is a HomePod mini and there is no regular, there is, there are no other HomePods.

00:07:42   The only one is the mini, which doesn't really make it the mini anymore. It actually is the only

00:07:46   HomePod available. Yeah, it's, it's stupefying. And also Apple canceled the regular, the OG HomePod

00:07:53   biggie without replacing it, which is not something they typically do if they intend to make a

00:07:57   next-generation product, unless that next-generation product is so far out, doesn't make any sense.

00:08:02   And I'm exactly with you. Like with the minis, you get very little bass and they're basically

00:08:06   2.0 stereo. And with the original HomePods, you get a ton of bass and they will support spatial

00:08:12   audio and Dolby Atmos. So you'll have everything from 2.1 to whatever, 9.1, whatever your, whatever

00:08:18   the source media can handle. And it's a profound difference. I think a lot of it was just Apple

00:08:24   started, Apple tried to do the iPod Hi-Fi again. They wanted, they realized that a bunch of audio

00:08:28   products, a lot of people don't have good audio solutions in all of their rooms. And they just

00:08:33   wanted to make a box that you could drop in any room, in any place in that room. And it would

00:08:36   sound good no matter where it was in the room. And then they happened substantially, added Siri

00:08:41   as a control mechanism, not happenstantly, but conveniently because there was no display. And

00:08:46   it took them five years to develop it. And in that time, Amazon and Google littered the world with

00:08:51   commodity smart speakers that didn't have the audio capability at all, but drove the price down and

00:08:57   the expectations up for what a home assistant should be. And so they basically brought a very

00:09:02   expensive speaker to a commodity speaker market. And it never, it never got good media, never got

00:09:07   good footing. A lot of people love it. They love it so much. They buy everyone they can find on

00:09:11   eBay, myself included. I have the same setup as you, but there was just no market for it. And the

00:09:17   mini sort of hits at that idealized price point, that new commodity price point of about a hundred

00:09:21   bucks, but nothing replaced that home pod. Like the Google version isn't as good. There's, there's

00:09:26   the Sonos version is okay, but Sonos is a fundamentally different product than Apple.

00:09:31   And I would love it. There's rumors of a home pod with an iPad style screen and a home pod mixed

00:09:36   with an Apple TV. That'd be a sort of a home theater pod, but I would also just love maybe

00:09:41   a little bit less expensive, but every bit is good replacement for that home pod.

00:09:45   It's the other factor is eliminating wires, right? Like that is a very Apple like thing. And I know,

00:09:55   you know, the whole, it's not like Apple is the only company that is interested in making wireless

00:09:58   products. You know, the whole, you know, AirPods sort of burst. I know they weren't the first

00:10:04   wireless headphones for consumers, but they're the first ones to sort of break through into the

00:10:09   mainstream. And now everybody's coming out with ones that are meant for the masses. Sony has some

00:10:16   new ones that even have a good name. I forget the name of it, but it's no longer named like XDR 5776.

00:10:23   It's got like a real name, but it's, you know, home theaters notoriously. You try to keep it.

00:10:29   You're like, ah, we can, you know, get rid of this, get rid of that, get all the way down. Even if

00:10:32   you get down to one box, we're going to do everything through this, you know? And it's like,

00:10:36   well, but then you kind of, you know, how can you, yeah, you need a second box. We need a receiver

00:10:41   for the speakers and we need, or this or that, and everything's connected with wires and you've got

00:10:45   these wires going play. And it's like, so part of the, it's not just physical decluttering of like

00:10:54   your living room or wherever you have your TV set up. It's almost like mental decluttering of

00:10:58   simplifying things like wireless is better, right? It's, you know, it's, it goes back to

00:11:03   anything. Everything that goes wireless is sort of better. Like almost, I mean, I don't know what

00:11:08   percentage of people still connect their computers to physical ethernet, Jack, but certainly not

00:11:15   many. And the ones who do are doing it for very specific reasons. Wi-Fi really changed that. And

00:11:21   the HomePod wireless connection to the Apple TV, it's really remarkable because you think,

00:11:29   ah, it's going to have latency or the, you know, latency with the video, like maybe the

00:11:34   lips won't be in sync with the audio, or it's going to put a delay on using the remote control.

00:11:39   You hit pause and it'll take a frag, you know, now it's all, it all feels just as fast as any

00:11:44   kind of wired connection to speakers. It's, it's, you know, and, and it's pretty easy to set up.

00:11:49   It is a very Apple-like solution and it's a product that they've gotten rid of with no

00:11:55   replacement. It's kind of strange. I feel like the rumor of the one that has like, you know,

00:12:02   I know Facebook makes a thing. There's a couple other companies that make these speakers with

00:12:06   a screen that I could see maybe them making that product. It's sort of, I mean, I can imagine other

00:12:14   scenarios, but it sounds like a kitchen product is something that people would put on their kitchen

00:12:19   counter. Or a grandparent product. They just want to FaceTime with the kids and don't want to bother

00:12:23   with anything else. Yeah, but I don't see Apple making that. I feel like, you know, if the

00:12:28   grandparents have an iPod or iPad or an iPhone, it's, you know, FaceTime's already usable, you

00:12:35   know, like the grandparents scenario is already taken care of. Like, I feel like it's a company

00:12:40   like Facebook that doesn't have a device like that, like the iPad or the iPhone that wants to

00:12:47   make a dedicated talk to the grandparents hardware device. But that's not a living room device,

00:12:54   right? Like there's no way you want to get a HomePod with its own screen just to use as

00:13:00   speakers for your TV set, right? I mean, what would you ever use the screen for? It doesn't see me.

00:13:06   Who knows what they're doing. But anyway, I wanted to follow up.

00:13:08   Anything there could be like just a HomePod dock or you put the HomePod on it, you stick your iPad

00:13:12   on it when you want to use it in the kitchen and you don't pick it up and walk away.

00:13:14   Yeah. I do feel like the, it's funny because this has been a decade long, more than a decade long.

00:13:23   I mean, I don't know when good old Gene Munster first started speculating on Apple making an

00:13:29   Apple branded TV set. When he saw the 27 inch iMac panels, he just took them for a television set.

00:13:34   Yeah. Well, that was a long time ago. And people have had this idea and in a broad sense,

00:13:47   it's certainly, it's almost like circa 2005, 2006 talking, "Well, I think Apple should make a phone."

00:13:55   I do. Phones are starting to play MP3s. Why carry two devices? I think Apple should make a phone.

00:14:02   And then they did. And it all made sense when we saw the iPhone. And it's like in that same general

00:14:07   sense, there's like a vague sense of Apple should make stuff for the living room for your home

00:14:12   entertainment. And yeah, that sounds good. But then when you get to the details, it's like your

00:14:18   living room is so, the difference is that the phone was one thing. You just, if you bought that

00:14:24   iPhone, then you put your cell phone number and your carrier account, you know, if you had AT&T,

00:14:29   but you know, let's flash forward to where they had carrier support around the world.

00:14:33   You know, you buy the iPhone and then that's your phone and it's your camera and it's your iPod and

00:14:40   it's, you know, this, that, the other thing famously. But you just buy that one thing.

00:14:44   Whereas the living room, even as you get rid of boxes, you're like, "Well, I don't need a separate

00:14:49   DVR. I've cut the cable. I can just, you know, get like an app to get my TV service and I can

00:14:55   eliminate some boxes." But it's still, there's the set, there's at least one box or a stick in the

00:15:01   back or something. And you know, speakers, I mean, really the only way to do it as just the simplest

00:15:09   possible thing is to just buy a TV set. Don't hook it up to any external speakers. Don't put a

00:15:15   stick or a Apple TV box in the back and just use the built-in Netflix and Hulu and Disney or

00:15:22   whatever comes on your TV. You can do that. I'm sure there are people who do that. And the sound

00:15:28   coming from TVs, like we got our new LGV TV two years ago, I guess, and for various reasons,

00:15:36   didn't have it hooked up to any kind of external speakers for a while. The sound is actually

00:15:43   surprisingly good. Really, really quite usable. Like dangerously usable in so far as it inspired

00:15:49   laziness on my part to actually do something like what I ended up doing and hook up two home pods

00:15:56   to it. But it's really good. So it is possible. But then we're back to square one of Apple making

00:16:01   an Apple branded TV set, because that's the one thing you definitely need in any setup is the TV

00:16:06   set. And for various reasons, I think they decided against it a long time ago.

00:16:11   Yeah, they prototyped at least two of them and it's just, it was, there was no interesting core

00:16:16   technologies. There was no super differentiation they could offer. The upgrade cycles are terrible

00:16:21   on television, which means they can't like increase the silicon the way they can on an

00:16:25   Apple TV small box. It just, it didn't make sense. There wasn't a compelling experience that Apple

00:16:29   thought that they could offer to the market. Right. And I heard that at least one of the

00:16:33   prototypes they built was sort of along, and who knows, this could be apocryphal. It's this sort

00:16:39   of story that is six degrees of separation from anybody who had direct knowledge of it.

00:16:45   But that it was like, you know, like a dream TV from Johnny Ive's team. And it was like,

00:16:52   I don't know, six or $7,000, you know, and I don't know what year. It's what they watched the World

00:16:57   Cup in in IL-3 in the old days, or IL-2 in the old days. Right. And I've, you know, I heard a similar

00:17:02   story years ago, you know, that there was not even a prototype. Like, I don't think that it was a

00:17:08   built thing that you could drive around, but at least a specked out, sketched out take on an Apple

00:17:15   car, and it was just ridiculously expensive. You know, when they, you know, all right, this looks

00:17:21   cool, and this looks like something we would put the Apple name on, and here, go figure out how

00:17:26   much this would cost. And then the people who figure that sort of thing out came back, and it

00:17:30   was, I don't know, like at least over $100,000. And it's like, well, that's, you know, that's too

00:17:35   much. They would never ever do it, but it would be so great to just get a version of that book that

00:17:39   Johnny Ive and Apple put out with the, with their history of their products, but the ones they didn't

00:17:43   ship that had the original car sketches in it, the original TV sketches in it, all of that stuff.

00:17:47   I wonder if they made a version of the book with just a, you know, to the other,

00:17:54   you know, and in hindsight, that book, it's, you know, you didn't have to be a genius to wonder if

00:18:02   Johnny was getting ready to leave Apple and the book was sort of, you know, something to sort of,

00:18:07   you know, like a bow. Yeah, like to close the door on this time.

00:18:12   Would have been good to have the book. I wonder if that, but that book would probably be a lot

00:18:17   thicker, although I guess you could edit it to just the, just the ones that make your heart ache,

00:18:23   you know, like, oh, if only we could have, that would be a good book.

00:18:27   Yeah. Yep. All right. Let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor. It's our good friends at

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00:20:32   my stuff. All right, AirTags. Before we get to the rumors, do you see Kashmir Hill's New York

00:20:40   Times story? She does such good work and investigative stuff, but she's like a tech

00:20:44   columnist for the New York Times. And what she did was, with permission, she planted three trackers

00:20:53   on her husband, AirTags, a tile tracker, and something that I'd never heard of,

00:21:01   she describes as a hockey puck-like GPS tracker from a company called Land Air Sea that she put

00:21:09   in the glove compartment of his car. And she wrote about how she was able to follow him as he went

00:21:14   about, you know, I think they live in the New York suburbs. She described a trip he took with

00:21:18   their daughter to the doctor because I think they thought she had COVID or something.

00:21:22   Yeah. And then he had a day of business in Manhattan. Really interesting kind of eye opening,

00:21:29   you know, and also not overly dramatized. You know, it was not like a scary,

00:21:35   you should be terrified of all these trackers, you know, that sort of take.

00:21:38   And it was multiple trackers because almost every other article has focused exclusively on AirTags

00:21:44   as if they were alone in the industry. Right, right. And it's interesting because,

00:21:48   like, because this Land Air Sea thing has its own built-in GPS, it obviously doesn't require...

00:21:56   So that was better for tracking her husband and daughter as they drove to the doctor

00:22:02   where they were on a highway and maybe not near any other Apple devices that would locate the

00:22:07   AirTag and ping the location. Something with built-in GPS is obviously going to be

00:22:13   more available at any time no matter where it is. Whereas the AirTag was obviously more useful for

00:22:20   tracking her husband when he was in Manhattan, surrounded by people with MacBooks and iPhones

00:22:27   especially. Pretty interesting. And it coincided, I think it was totally a coincidence because I

00:22:33   think Apple was working on this, but like a day or two before her story dropped, Apple had announced

00:22:39   their updated initiatives to increase the, what would you call it, the transparency and

00:22:46   notifications, you know, like there's, you know, and I think rightly so.

00:22:51   The awareness.

00:22:51   Yeah, the awareness of that these things exist and what happens when one is found with you. And

00:22:59   you had, I thought, a terrific video talking about this.

00:23:03   Thank you.

00:23:05   Pointing out specifically the conflict, like the fundamental conflict that AirTags can't do both

00:23:13   of these things at once, which is be privacy aware so that they try their best to alert people that

00:23:20   one has been surreptitiously planted on them and be used as an anti-theft device that won't notify

00:23:29   the thief that the thing that they've stolen that has an AirTag is being tracked.

00:23:35   Yeah, and it goes even beyond that because I think like I used more extreme examples,

00:23:38   like you have in one side you have anti-stocking and then on the other side you have lost item

00:23:45   recovery and then on another side you have stolen item recovery and those are all very different

00:23:50   tasks and you have to optimize very differently for them. But even in the narrow focus of just

00:23:56   recovering lost items, if you're not careful with how you balance this out, you can't sit on a bus

00:24:01   or on a train without your phone popping every three seconds because other people have their own

00:24:06   AirTags with them or a kid has an AirTag their parent put in their bag or something.

00:24:10   And also like you want to find your stolen wallet but if it's peeping all the time,

00:24:15   someone else might find it who didn't steal it but they find it your camera bag, your wallet,

00:24:20   and because it's beeping and they have pinpoint accuracy to it they go and remove the money or

00:24:24   remove the cameras before you can come back and find your bag. And I think it's really,

00:24:28   really easy and kind of cynical to sit there and like it's a tool, it's a technology,

00:24:35   tools technologies have problems. I'm reminded of when Apple announced the hearing aid feature

00:24:39   for AirPods immediately there were a bunch of stories about how people were going to use these

00:24:42   to eavesdrop on each other with very little consideration for people who actually need

00:24:47   this as an accessibility function. And just the scope of the stories I think have been

00:24:52   a huge distortion to what the actual technology can do. And Apple is I think, they were alone in

00:24:58   the industry in providing any form of notifications, registering devices with your with your,

00:25:05   sorry registering AirTags with your devices, with your Apple ID, working with law enforcement under

00:25:10   subpoena. We had years of tiles, we had Samsung tags for years, we've had these GPS devices for

00:25:15   years where there's been none of those affordances and almost zero coverage of them. But when Apple

00:25:20   enters a market the attention is so much that it helps, absolutely helps in bringing this awareness

00:25:26   to it, but I think it's also opportunistically distorted by a lot of the coverage around it.

00:25:31   Yeah I think that's well said and you know part of it is that they timed it right I think,

00:25:37   you know that they built out the Find My Network first, the privacy aware way that it works where

00:25:49   you're complete, you know complete strangers who are participating in the Find My Network with

00:25:53   capable recent Apple devices like iPhones, which is the big one because it's the most mobile right,

00:25:59   it puts the mobile in mobile. You know when they pick up a ping from like an AirTag or other

00:26:09   devices that are on the Find My Network they can report it in an anonymous way where you know

00:26:16   there's no way for the person whose iPhone is saying hey I just picked up a ping from an AirTag,

00:26:21   they don't know whose AirTag it is, they don't even know that it happened, you know that the

00:26:25   ping was sent, and you the person who owned the AirTag don't know that this person walked by with

00:26:31   their iPhone and sent a ping to update your AirTag. So they built that out first, they did the hard

00:26:39   work of getting you know a billion plus devices in circulation around the world which makes it

00:26:46   usable right like you can have all this technology in place the exact same thing as Apple's Find My

00:26:51   and if you only have a million devices which would be you know for many companies would be great to

00:26:58   have a million devices in use but that's a thousand fold decrease it would be less useful because

00:27:05   that was Tiles' early problem right well I think it's still Tiles I think it's the I think it's the

00:27:09   fundamental problem with Tiles whole concept was that they never had enough devices sending

00:27:15   the pings to you know to update them and I think you know going back to Kashmir Hill's story in the

00:27:22   New York Times I think that's why the the Tile tracker didn't wasn't as useful for tracking

00:27:26   her husband's whereabouts because there's just not enough it's it truly is it's like the definition

00:27:32   of network effects right yeah which is why Tiles partnering with Amazon now to greatly increase

00:27:37   their footprint right like network effects are such a bizarre concept I think Bob Metcalf the

00:27:43   inventor of Ethernet first defined it but it's like the fax machine is like the perfect example

00:27:49   it's like yeah you know it's like one person who has a fax machine it's completely useless two

00:27:56   people have a fax machine and it might be useful if assuming they know each other and want to send

00:28:02   each other faxes semi-frequently but like at the peak of faxes facsimiles you know utility in our

00:28:12   world almost everybody had one and there was a while where it was assumed it became so ubiquitous

00:28:19   that it was assumed that oh if you want to you know open up a new bank account you know you'll

00:28:26   just send a fax here and it's like well I'm at home I don't have a fax you know and and there

00:28:30   were like email to fax services and stuff like that so that you could get without having a fax

00:28:35   machine at home or a separate line just to have for your fax because you'd have to have a separate

00:28:39   phone line blah blah blah but it's like once they're everywhere they were very useful but

00:28:43   when there's only like a few of them they're not useful and how do you get from well this is a

00:28:50   great idea but we need to get you know tens of millions of them out in the world that's that's

00:28:55   the mystery and you know air tags have that with the find my network and tile doesn't you know it's

00:29:03   not useless you know people have tiles and they use them but it's clearly not as useful so the

00:29:11   changes apple announced one of them is that they seemingly identified I would even call it a bug

00:29:18   where people were getting a spurious warning that an unidentified device has been found

00:29:26   near you or with with you for blank and an awful lot of people I'd reasonably so assumed that that

00:29:36   meant there was an air tag with them and then they'd like look around like let's say they're

00:29:40   in their car and it says an unidentified you know tracking device or device has been found with you

00:29:46   you know from the find my network and then they're like huh I don't have one of those and then they'd

00:29:52   like tear a car apart or look around or say send a you know play a sound or something and nothing

00:29:58   would happen and it turned out it wasn't air tags it was like other devices like air pods yeah air

00:30:04   pods yeah which is yeah and that was just because the the label was not being identified if it was

00:30:10   air tags it would tell you it was air tags but if it wasn't it would just say it was an unknown

00:30:13   device which is terrifying because it's nothing more terrifying than the unknown right right it's

00:30:18   actually scarier yeah yeah I I've had a I had a couple people it does seem you know and it gets to

00:30:26   these arguments about Apple software reliability I mean for the most part this stuff works so good

00:30:31   and but it does seem like there are some cracks in the system like I have one regular reader who

00:30:37   rides his bicycle to commute to work and while he's riding his bicycle he puts one air pod in

00:30:44   so that his other ear can you know pay attention to traffic and everything else going about

00:30:49   and that almost every day or every day when he goes home from work he gets that alert on his

00:30:56   phone that there's an unknown device near you and it's it's his other air pod that's in or or

00:31:02   or he gets the thing that says you left your air pod behind he gets one or the other in neither

00:31:08   case is it unknown it's his other ears air pod in the air pod case in his pocket and it's not left

00:31:14   behind at work and it's not an unknown device so hopefully with iOS I guess it's an iOS 15.4 thing

00:31:22   where this fix is coming hopefully they get that straightened out but it is it's you're absolutely

00:31:27   right that it seems like the worst possible warning is an unknown device yeah and it's

00:31:32   interesting because Apple gets so much attention that's part of the benefit that they get anytime

00:31:36   they announce a new product there is an ungodly amount of media coverage on it but the equal and

00:31:40   opposite of that is that anytime they introduce a technology even if it's not new like they introduce

00:31:44   touch id and people hammered on it even though you know Samsung and HTC had been storing fingerprint

00:31:49   photos and world readable directories for years they just they just didn't have the attention

00:31:53   gravity that Apple did but I do worry because the like I hate the word fake news I hate when people

00:32:00   use fake news as a way to attack coverage or accountability or those things because uh

00:32:05   news coverage is like is the one of the only defenses that we actually have between us and

00:32:10   the world around us but there's also and I don't know if it's just post OJ Simpson or or when it is

00:32:16   where news got distorted into this continual sensationalization like this complete thirst

00:32:21   to the point where it's now trying to shape the story like it's no longer these are the facts what

00:32:26   are the narratives that can be drawn from these facts how likely are each of those narratives

00:32:31   but it's more like I want to make a story like Neil Neil Sybart was joking um but only a little

00:32:36   bit where he said you know iMessage is so popular with us teens we're not going to report that oh we

00:32:41   could say that they're bullying teens yeah go run with that right but I think a lot of the times you

00:32:45   look at the coverage and it is that and if you look at air tags absolutely they're way more popular

00:32:49   way more attention than any of the previous versions of the product but the coverage has been

00:32:54   almost universally that these are a stalking device even though if you are a criminal you have

00:32:59   to be the dumbest criminal in the world to want to use air tags because of all the tattletale

00:33:05   features that apple built into them that don't exist at all in any other version including the

00:33:10   better ones like the GPS ones that yes do require an account but give you all of like the benefits

00:33:15   with none of the drawbacks and that's that except for this article when we're talking about the New

00:33:20   York Times none of that has been presented consistently or in context at all over the last

00:33:24   few months right you can't set up air tags like if you you know go to the apple store buy some factory

00:33:30   fresh ones and you want to start tracking some something you know for good purposes for bad

00:33:37   purposes whatever you just want to start using it to track something you can't get it activated

00:33:42   onto the find by network without associating it with an apple id and if it's your appled id

00:33:51   which apparently has happened because of you know like you said for lack of a better word dumb

00:33:56   criminals who aren't really thinking about it um aren't really thinking about the fact that they

00:34:02   just set it up with their own apple id and that it works both ways and that if the person finds

00:34:07   it and contacts law enforcement and law enforcement gets in touch with apple that they could say oh

00:34:11   yeah this is you know so-and-so's air tech they have they confirmed that they've been working

00:34:16   with law enforcement on it um you know and it's it in theory i guess you know somebody with with

00:34:24   the bad intentions could create a throwaway apple ids to do that and and i'm not they have so much

00:34:32   telemetry like apple has so like the locate like there's so much telemetry that can be drawn off

00:34:36   even just metadata that that probably won't help obscure you very much well and i'm also presumably

00:34:42   you know like anybody who gets to be a sufficiently large service like that especially if you can if

00:34:48   there's a free tier of any service like there is with apple ids you know these companies have built

00:34:55   up inordinately complicated systems to try to keep people with not even criminal intentions but just

00:35:02   who are looking to abuse abuse the system um like let's like what if you wanted to just i guess it's

00:35:08   sort of criminal to send spam but if you just wanted to make a new uh whatever at icloud.com

00:35:14   account just to send spam or harassing emails or something like that they have systems in place i

00:35:20   don't know what they are i haven't tried to create throwaway icloud accounts but it's not as easy as

00:35:27   you would think and there's other ways that that they can try to track it but it is a problem right

00:35:32   like that's the other thing especially with location-based devices right so let's you know

00:35:37   it's not like oh nobody should be worried about it it's you know we definitely should i yes there

00:35:43   were widespread reports and you know you mentioned john prosser i think prosser amongst the rumor

00:35:50   rumorists whatever you want to call them yeah had air tags pretty early and they did not actually

00:35:58   get announced and shipped until much later and it's partly speculation and partly you know

00:36:05   whispering through the grapevine that the problem wasn't the hardware which was completed relatively

00:36:12   early um earlier than when it shipped but working through the systematic ways of well how how should

00:36:22   this work from every step of the way like the person who owns it how do we protect their privacy

00:36:29   and and make this work for them and how do we protect this from being abused and that it was

00:36:35   thinking through all of those issues that took longer than expected or at least took longer than

00:36:40   it did to develop the hardware yeah no and absolutely i also think there's a benefit of

00:36:45   apple entering these markets and that it does raise awareness and now like people were not

00:36:50   talking about this before and it's been a problem like this a problem with stalking people using

00:36:53   technology every two-bit procedural show on television is shown someone throwing a phone

00:36:58   into someone's bag or car to track them with um and with but and that's like by the time tv gets

00:37:03   to it it's been a problem for a decade already and in way more serious form so at least uh this

00:37:09   has always been a serious problem the stalking the abuse harassment is a huge problem and this

00:37:13   has raised a lot of awareness around that and hopefully other technologies and laws and

00:37:17   regulations will be updated like if you commit a felony when possession of a firearm you get it you

00:37:22   get a much higher increased sentence maybe we have to have a stronger sentence for people who commit

00:37:27   crimes using location tracking technology some form of disincentive but you you you i was going

00:37:33   to say if they'd known what they knew now they'd become a watchmaker they already make watches but

00:37:39   you can't you can't un-invent the stuffs all you can do is try to deal with it

00:37:43   well and i think that that's there's there's i forget the exact name of it i'll try to look it

00:37:49   up but there's a great twitter account that i follow like the internet pessimists archive

00:37:53   and it's just occasional posts of the pessimists archive i will put this in the

00:38:04   but all sorts of technical achievements or perhaps every technical achievement throughout history was

00:38:10   you know bemoaned for its trade-offs and the trade-offs are real but you know like the

00:38:15   telegraph and the telephone and oh my god now with the telephone i know recorded music like

00:38:20   the phonograph like being able to play a record was bemoaned by i think john philip susa in

00:38:26   particular that this was going to completely pervert people's love for live music and yeah

00:38:32   even things like bizarre things like novels you know which which when we grew up was like oh my

00:38:38   god stop reading uh comic books and watching tv you should read a book right reading books was

00:38:44   good but like when novels first became mass market things that people could afford like with

00:38:50   paperbacks and stuff in the late 1800s it was like oh this this novel fad is ruining you know

00:38:56   that's all people are doing is reading these novels this is you know it's turning everybody's

00:39:01   minds to mush everything is like that there's always trade-offs you know ubiquitous cameras

00:39:07   are obviously one that is fresh fresh in them like change like changing rooms there was a huge

00:39:13   uproar about camera phones and changing rooms for a long time right and i i even mentioned this a few

00:39:18   episodes ago i forget who was on the show but i mentioned uh the the the fact that in japan it

00:39:24   was a real problem because they had that they had camera phones earlier than most people you know

00:39:30   that they were they were sort of ahead on using your phone for things like getting on the subway

00:39:35   and stuff by just waving your phone at it with you know wireless technology and stuff but that

00:39:41   they had a real problem with uh let's face it men using their camera to try to shoot surreptitious

00:39:48   photos up up yes up the skirts of women on the subway and stuff like that and so the it's

00:39:56   i actually i wish i had a better note i actually i think i said on the show that it's the law

00:40:01   that every camera in japan has to make an audible shutters down at all times and i think oh man this

00:40:11   will be follow up for my next show but i think somebody told me that it's not actually a law

00:40:15   but that everybody voluntarily complies with it including apple and so even if you have like your

00:40:21   iphone mute switch on or have the volume turned down when you take a photo it always makes a click

00:40:26   which is super annoying because the reason for it is this idea in japan that you'd want to do that to

00:40:33   to make everybody around you aware that you're taking a photo for privacy sake but everybody

00:40:38   can imagine various scenarios where you don't want your phone to make a camera click right like

00:40:44   yes let's say you're at the baby whistleblower sleeping baby your kids play like a quiet dramatic

00:40:50   moment in your kid's school play and then there you are click you know it's it you can imagine

00:40:56   the parental controls too like people complained they were no potential parental controls and then

00:41:00   when they established them there was a problem with abusive people in relationships using

00:41:04   parental controls to control the devices or mdms to control the devices of the people they were

00:41:09   abusing it's it's incredibly complicated and non-trivial yeah uh and you know tracking is

00:41:15   obviously one of these things you know it's it's obviously only going to become more common i mean

00:41:21   we're it's it sounds like science fiction but it's like a lot of what we have now in our pockets

00:41:29   people the devices that people are listening to this show me and you talk on are you know

00:41:34   were the things of science fiction not that long ago you know within our lifetimes uh and as as

00:41:40   dakota's little brother right as stuff shrinks it's going to become you know uh more of a problem

00:41:48   i mean we're not even getting into drones becoming silent and much smaller and much cheaper you know

00:41:56   i mean that's sort of not the nightmare scenario but there there are nightmare scenarios that stem

00:42:03   from ubiquitous silent little insect-sized drones right it's you know it how in the world do you

00:42:10   remain private when something that looks like a housefly might be something somebody's using to

00:42:15   spy on you with you know and john they sent us the terminator they sent us the matrix and we're here

00:42:20   anyway like we do this to ourselves yeah so it's coming we already have these other devices that

00:42:26   do know our location uh so do it to ourselves we are bugging and tracking ourselves now

00:42:32   so i thought it was a little pessimistic when like the story came out there was one you know

00:42:37   high profile story of like a model a woman who's like a model or an actress or something in new york

00:42:43   who's who was out with her friends and got the notification on her phone and found an air tag in

00:42:50   her purse that you know seemingly some creep put in there but she'd already gotten home so maybe he'd

00:42:57   know he found out where she lived and you know she went to the police and the press and it got highly

00:43:01   publicized and the pessimistic take was that hey i and i saw a couple people you know both privately

00:43:07   and publicly people who emailed me and people i saw on twitter speculating hey maybe apple should

00:43:11   just scrap this whole air tags thing and you know just say you know what this was a bad idea and

00:43:17   and stop selling them because this this is no good and i say that's pessimistic because i think it's

00:43:24   inevitable anyway even if apple were to get out of it this this problem isn't going away someone

00:43:28   else is just going to make them and yeah samsung tags aren't going anywhere uh you know it's

00:43:34   something we also do you remember like in the early day like for years on instagram every photo

00:43:40   you could tap on the location it would show you exactly where it was and there was a huge

00:43:44   controversy when a bunch of models found out that they had been posting pictures from home

00:43:47   and like people have been stalking and creeping them for months and months just by tapping that

00:43:52   little button on instagram there wasn't the kind of coverage there was of air tags but that was

00:43:57   that was an incredible invasion or location disclosure and it just went on and on and on

00:44:02   this technique there's you have to i don't want to be a pessimist about it but this stuff exists now

00:44:07   and we have to sort of figure out new rules for humanity on how to deal with it yeah that that

00:44:12   metadata in the photos is so useful right and and that's part of how a lot of these problems happen

00:44:18   and and you know i think it's happened with with apple products in a lot of ways because i think

00:44:23   it's more natural for most creative people to think of wouldn't it be cool if blank like

00:44:29   wouldn't it be cool if we could embed the gps data in the photo itself and then your photo

00:44:37   collection you could say show me all the photos from when i'm in uh cazamel mexico and it'll show

00:44:42   you all of the photos from your trip to cazamel mexico and if you broaden the gps you know even

00:44:48   if you took like a a boat trip or something like that you know in the general vicinity you could

00:44:54   find them all you know it's super and wow that would be super useful but then it's like there's

00:44:59   all of these oh but and then it's like everywhere you send it you know where you wouldn't want your

00:45:05   location you've got to either strip that data yourself which most people aren't going to do

00:45:11   because most people don't even know how to do that or trust the tools and services you're using

00:45:17   to strip it for you right like and so i think as far as i know every popular social media site now

00:45:24   automatic you know including facebook you know maybe facebook stores the information on their

00:45:28   own like you submit a photo with geolocation and they remember it but they don't share it publicly

00:45:34   you know and so your photos on instagram don't have location data by default anymore i think

00:45:39   you have to add it um but it's you know you just don't think of stuff like that when you're just

00:45:44   trying to make something cool yeah absolutely so it's that classic ian malcolm thing from

00:45:49   drastic park where you're just so busy trying to figure out how to do it you never stop and

00:45:52   think about whether you should or not right or whether somebody you know making those dinosaurs

00:45:58   is probably a bad idea in general but yes uh you know you just don't think of it often don't think

00:46:03   of all the trade-offs and it seems like with air tags it's a case where apple really tried to and

00:46:11   i think did a good job of anticipating all of the nefarious ways they could be used and it's just a

00:46:18   matter of filling in the cracks in their implementation of those plans that that that they're

00:46:26   you know that they couldn't quite anticipate and it'd be kind of nice if we if the media

00:46:31   bent some of their will onto getting the other companies like tile and samsung to to implement

00:46:36   similar protections i think the most recent thing they did is just turn on a bluetooth scanner so you

00:46:41   can see if there's like a bluetooth device around you which is better than nothing but not quite so

00:46:45   helpful i would personally love it if at an os level both ios and android built in something

00:46:51   that would detect persistent unregistered bluetooth devices because like you it goes

00:46:56   beyond tile like i said like people for years have been dropping cheap phones in people's bags

00:47:00   but they could also you could drop your like air pods or samsung buds or google buds or what a cheap

00:47:04   anchor buds or something that has any sort of location availability on them and follow people

00:47:08   so just have it at an os level you don't need a specific phone or app and it just alerts you when

00:47:13   something has been with you for a while that your phone doesn't know yeah it would be good i mean

00:47:17   you know something like that you know something so you could like just sweep the area you know

00:47:22   what i mean like all of a sudden we're all we're all gangsters or cia agents it's it's

00:47:27   opposite because it's good opposite yeah we're sweeping sweeping for bugs kind of needed don't

00:47:32   talk yet don't talk yet bb bb bb okay it's safe uh all right let me take another break here and

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00:49:31   rumors here's the first one i got the uh some but some poor some poor engineer at apple

00:49:38   checked in like a uh like a software update with the the name reality you know like a version

00:49:45   control with uh like a comment or something like an if statement like if reality os

00:49:51   that's not new i mean i don't think anybody really reported it as new but i think you i think you're

00:49:59   the first person i heard mention the name and i think like two years ago i mean and again it it's

00:50:05   possible you know i mean it would be a you know it's the sort of thing where like you know it

00:50:10   greg jaswiak decides you know we're not going to call it reality os yes some poor engineer has to

00:50:16   go through and change on all of the code to to change that or maybe not maybe the code just

00:50:22   keeps calling it reality os even if the actual marketing name of the os is something different

00:50:27   yeah that's the weird thing to me and i think mark ermin has been reporting on ros for a long time

00:50:32   but the like usually apple doesn't use product names in this stuff like famously like ios was

00:50:38   purple and there was purple restore and everything like they didn't like we're not gonna forget like

00:50:44   we're not gonna put the new version of ios on this we've got the purple restore and someone in apple

00:50:48   to this day like they don't know what ios 15 is like they barely remember because they're they're

00:50:53   using whatever the ski slope name or now i forget what it is like ucon or something yeah they live

00:50:58   on those names and they don't often remember which version is which like what's in public

00:51:01   they're living like two years in the future so to me like if this was like orange or if it was like

00:51:06   cantaloupe or something marzipan that would make a lot more sense to me than to have anything close

00:51:11   to a marketing name in a in a commit yeah but somehow it seems like that's you know i wouldn't

00:51:16   be surprised but i i would bet i would bet a small amount of money that the actual name of the os is

00:51:21   going to be reality os but you know we shall see but is is it really you know is it news that

00:51:28   they're working on this i mean it it would be i i just wrote about uh before we started recording

00:51:36   today about a leaked slide from intel that says they have plans to be performance per watt

00:51:42   competitive with the m1 pro by the end of 2023 and like i wrote it would be it would be more shocking

00:51:48   if you knew everything there was to know about intel's internal roadmap it would what would be

00:51:51   shocking is if they didn't have some sort of team and a plan to do that now whether they'll achieve

00:51:57   it or not who knows but you know it the bar's been set so fascinating because like they announced

00:52:04   they had they publicly announced at their investor event which went on for like four hours like some

00:52:08   people think wwc is long this one like it was an investor event went on for four hours they

00:52:13   announced four process i think it was five process shrinks for four years including going beyond

00:52:18   nanometer and into angstrom because it's smaller than nanometer and those are just marketing names

00:52:22   they're not actual physical measurements so you can't compare the sizes directly but at this point

00:52:27   it's just like shut up and ship and it reminds me that apple doesn't do this they don't announce

00:52:31   what the next four generations of apple silicon are going to be they just come out and show you

00:52:35   what they've done and then let you benchmark it to see if if it holds up i had i had a friend who

00:52:40   no longer works at apple but was there for you know a number of years as a software engineer and

00:52:47   they uh they sent me that link to the leak of reality os and said that they they had been in

00:52:53   a position before and and so many apple engineers are where you're you're privy to something upcoming

00:53:00   and you're trying to write code that's as clear and descriptive as possible but you you know

00:53:07   you don't want to check anything into the shipping version of whatever it is that has the you know

00:53:13   that's there for like gee rambo to decompile or something like that and oh there's the thing

00:53:18   happened right and he said it is like there is there's just nobody's going to you know maybe

00:53:24   someday if anybody were going to do it and like build it in as a first class feature of xcode

00:53:29   i guess it would be apple but that it's really just sort of like you're just making like a house

00:53:34   of cards of like you know if def statements to like make sure that when you compile this

00:53:40   for that version it doesn't include any of this and when you compile it for the upcoming secret

00:53:47   project thing it is there and that it's just so easy to make a mistake you know especially

00:53:54   it's so easy if there's you know 500 engineers working on this and they have a 99.9 success rate

00:54:02   at keeping things that aren't supposed to be mentioned in the shipping product out well you

00:54:08   know that one in a thousand mistake it's going to happen right it's every couple years yeah every

00:54:16   couple years but it's you know it's like somebody had a bad day and again it's not like apple apple

00:54:21   is not i don't even think back when steve jobs was around it's not like it's you know he he had

00:54:27   a reputation as a tyrant but i don't think that he was vindictive and like hunted down individual

00:54:34   engineers who made a mistake i think famously that the poor kid who lost the iphone 4 at a at a

00:54:40   restaurant and was found by gizmodo i'm pretty sure that the kid did not lose his job

00:54:46   no because of that but had had a bad couple of weeks right it's certainly a bad certainly had

00:54:54   a bad day no absolutely so it's not like oh the poor engineer who checked in a code commit with

00:55:02   reality os mentioned but didn't comment it out or if if def it out so that it wouldn't be in the

00:55:07   thing not like they're fired but still it's a bad day and you feel like you let everybody down and

00:55:12   it's like ah and i'm sure it was the silliest possible mistake you know like oh i know exactly

00:55:18   what i did and they look at xco and it's like you know you make two quick changes and all of a

00:55:22   sudden it's you know back to back to hidden uh yeah yeah well to your point i mean for years

00:55:27   blogs every every november would say oh we discovered in our logs people from cupartino

00:55:32   are browsing our site in the next version of ios apple must be working on another version of ios

00:55:37   or apple is working on a new iphone it's like no they've had enough they're done with the iphone

00:55:41   they're based they're just dropping it they're gonna get it to hot tubs now it's gonna be yo

00:55:44   serie bubbles for the next three years yeah we just like we used to get the screen dimensions

00:55:49   from that right because you could you know a lot of a lot of analytics packages for websites

00:55:54   will do a test to see what the display size is and if you get a user agent string that says it's

00:56:00   an iphone and the screen dimensions are not what the existing iphones have it's like oh new screen

00:56:09   you know you know and then people would start spoofing them and like you can't tell it's just

00:56:12   it's hilarious uh i remember for a while mark german was getting the names of new iphone models

00:56:18   from the strings it was like iphone like seven comma eight and at one point apple just put

00:56:22   32 numbers in there to play with them it was just hilarious like iphone one comma hamburger or

00:56:27   something um i don't think though speaking of reality os i don't think any of that is imminent

00:56:33   you know the german report was that maybe they were hoping to ship the first headset this fall

00:56:40   maybe it's early next year now maybe it's been pushed back it's not this is not something we're

00:56:45   talking about for this march 8th event that is supposedly forthcoming um yep wouldn't be

00:56:51   surprised i think one thing that gets unremarked upon because they do it so seldom they're so

00:56:55   seldom a new product and i think you just talked talked about this in one of your videos about how

00:57:02   the one exception to apple not talking about future products is they'll they'll be surprisingly

00:57:06   loose-lipped about new products because they they don't risk cannibalizing themselves right

00:57:12   so like famously tim cook answered like hey you guys making a watch and he said well the

00:57:17   wrist is an interesting spot for us you know which you think whoa whoa williams said the car is the

00:57:22   ultimate mobile device right right right and it's like well wait why would he do that well it's

00:57:28   because if he if it what's the worst thing that could happen you know like if he started talking

00:57:33   up uh you know then this year's iphone 14 models you know the idea is that you would uh what's the

00:57:41   famous example the osborne the osborne effect right the osborne effect from the early early

00:57:46   early pc era of like the early 1980s where this poor company osborne was selling personal computers

00:57:52   with some degree of success and went to a like a big convention and all they could do is talk up

00:57:57   their next one and everybody stopped buying the one they were already selling and then the next

00:58:02   one was late and they went out of business yeah uh so you don't want to apple is doesn't want to talk

00:58:09   up this september's new iphones because they're still selling last september's iphone 13 models

00:58:15   and you know all the ones underneath it in the in the product chain whereas talking about the watch

00:58:21   before they were selling any watches didn't hurt them you know if anything it only kept people

00:58:27   yeah hurts or fitbit or you know whatever whatever it is you think they're going to do

00:58:31   um so the other thing is like the technology is like tim cook has been very happy to talk about

00:58:37   automation and uh augmented reality and artificial intelligence because those aren't actual products

00:58:44   it's like steve jobs talking about lcd like yes the i the iMac has to go lcd eventually but

00:58:49   if there is no lcd that you literally can't make an iphone but then lcd isn't the iphone because

00:58:54   you also make the ipad and the watch and i think cook is the same it's like ar and vr there will

00:58:59   be products that use those but it's going to be as ubiquitous as lcd and oled are on products today

00:59:04   yeah and i i think it's really interesting as time goes on there's two big uh upcoming who knows you

00:59:12   know whether either both or will ship or on what form but that there's project titan at apple where

00:59:17   they're making a car or some kind of vehicle or self-driving technology or something along the

00:59:22   lines of a car vehicle and the ar vr stuff where they're either making uh i mean vr at a technical

00:59:32   level is clearly closer to reality than ar yeah but it could be a mixed thing where it is a

00:59:39   technically a vr headset but it combines a camera so you can see through and see the world around

00:59:45   you not just what's you know you're not just in a total blackout and that eventually they do want

00:59:50   to make ar glasses you know where you you'll get effectively like eyeglasses but then you know you'll

00:59:57   have like a heads up display and your lenses are projected onto your retinas or whatever the

01:00:01   technology they want to use to me one of the interesting contrasts between those two big

01:00:06   initiatives right the ar vr stuff on one side project titan on the other is that project titan

01:00:13   has been we know just through leaks and just through the public exodus and return of executives

01:00:22   right like some of this stuff can't you know we don't know what they're working on but all sorts

01:00:25   of people have come and gone from project titan and come from tesla left from tesla gone back

01:00:32   come from qnx right there's all sorts of the drama and shake-ups and stuff like that and the ar xr

01:00:43   vr stuff it's just seemingly at least as far as we know from the outside steady as she goes right

01:00:49   it's still mike rockwell heading it up uh you know and hasn't been a lot of news you know it was just

01:00:56   a couple years ago where rockwell was on my show at wwc after a bunch of vr and ar specific apis

01:01:04   that were announced that year for ios he's still there it's it's seemingly where there's smoke

01:01:09   there's fire it seems like there's been a lot of fires at project titan it seems like everything's

01:01:13   going pretty well with the ar vr stuff but i wouldn't be surprised sign of our times like

01:01:18   the reporting is way more active than it was now and i've talked about this before but like can you

01:01:22   imagine if this kind of reporting was done back during the iphone era where it's like steve jobs

01:01:26   wants a glass device and he can read email anywhere tablet project now becomes iphone

01:01:30   project tony fidel and scott forestall in blood war for steve jobs's affection right now project

01:01:35   purple delayed room smell like pizza like like the whole thing would have been like much more like i

01:01:42   feel like that's what we get with titan now is that everything we never used to hear about

01:01:44   until they shipped like there'd be rumors and stuff but now like every little personnel move

01:01:48   is is broadcast for various reasons i i'm actually researching a lot about the creation of the the

01:01:54   iphone the original iphone product and i've cracked open a bunch of my books that i've

01:02:00   collected over the years and you know that i read for the most part when they came out

01:02:06   things like becoming steve jobs which was the other biography of of steve jobs ken kashenda's

01:02:14   creative selection kurt i think his name is kurt vogelstein's i forget the title of his book now i

01:02:20   can't believe it it's on my it's on my desk as i speak but it was like about the creation of ios

01:02:25   and android i'm just reading a bunch of these and uh fred vogelstein what's the name of the book do

01:02:31   you have it no i can't find it hold on fred vogelstein up got it dogfight is the book it's a

01:02:40   very yeah yeah with the android stuff it's amazing yeah it's it's uh can't believe i couldn't think

01:02:44   about but anyway good book anyway but i'm like trying to figure out the the timeline of the

01:02:53   creation of the iphone which i don't think i've ever seen quite spelled out combined with like

01:02:59   the rocker and stuff and the one thing and it so it's like i'm sort of like the the guy at the the

01:03:07   cork board with a bunch of tacks and yarn yeah and i'm stringing all this stuff all around and

01:03:12   i've got all these books with like three four or five bookmarks each in all of them and a bunch of

01:03:18   older articles from the era and blah blah blah and the one thing that where i'm going with this is

01:03:23   the one thing that keeps coming up over and over again to a surprising degree is that steve jobs

01:03:29   wanted something that he could read his email on the toilet and yeah i think imram imram tweeted

01:03:35   that a while ago too yeah the uh the founder of humane the secretive startup yes uh yeah uh yeah

01:03:43   great computer history museum has a whole bunch of interviews with scott forestall and indonatra and

01:03:47   just um so many of the people who like built all that stuff like why they named it you like it

01:03:52   it's it's amazing amazing lore i don't know that i don't know the story of why they named it ui kit

01:03:57   other than the fact oh it was it is yeah i'm blanking on his name now scott it was scott hearse

01:04:03   who came up with the name eventually because it wasn't abkit and it wasn't uh webkit right right

01:04:08   it's a good name um but it's so funny because you read these things and there are conflicting

01:04:14   reports you go through and there's a lot of you know you kind of have to start making some

01:04:18   editorial just if you want to say this is what i think the timeline is what happened in early 2005

01:04:24   what happened in late 2005 when was this bake-off between like an embedded linux versus a stripped

01:04:31   down mac os 10 to be the iphone os yeah um and you get conflicting reports about what was early

01:04:37   2005 what was late 2005 what was the middle what might have even been in early 2006 like within

01:04:44   you know like 11 10 months you know the clock is ticking to where where where they want to announce

01:04:49   this at macworld 2007 but there's other things that come up over and over and over again from

01:04:54   the various sources both like books that came out years later extemporaneous stories and the one

01:05:01   thing that keeps coming up is that steve jobs wanted to read email on the toilet yeah i just

01:05:07   love it you just know that it was that and this the story of steve his wife having her friend

01:05:13   over who had the husband from microsoft he was talking about how bill gates and tablet pcs were

01:05:17   going to dominate the future of computing and then steve goes and finds scott the next day and we have

01:05:22   to put a stop to this yeah screw him yeah uh so anyway i wouldn't be surprised if if reality os

01:05:32   follows the pattern that watch the apple watch did where they announce it this fall at you know

01:05:41   maybe alongside the iphone which is usually the bigger event in september but say this is a product

01:05:48   here's the product we're making here's what it does here's what it's good for and it's coming

01:05:54   early next year and that's what they did with the watch back in 2015 2014 whenever it was 2014 yeah

01:06:02   2014 would be the announcement 2015 is when the original apple watch shipped like in april and was

01:06:08   in short supply you know until up until closer to wwdc like it was kind of hard to get your hands on

01:06:15   one um and again they don't do that with any other new product there if something terrible happened

01:06:22   with the iphone's 14 and they could not release them by the end of the year this year they're just

01:06:29   not even going to announce them until next year and you know i mean that would be highly unusual

01:06:34   i'm not saying that like hey the stock market you know like if september comes and goes and apple

01:06:39   hasn't said anything about a media event uh you know or if they have a media event in october and

01:06:46   it's there's no mention of new iphones yeah you know like people are going to notice and we're all

01:06:52   going to talk about it but they're not going to pre-announce the iphone 14 and say it's coming in

01:06:58   six months whereas no only the first one right with a vr headset they might and in fact it might

01:07:04   make a lot of sense right it's like you know it why not pre-announce it you know and then you can

01:07:09   get developers to start working on stuff uh if you want them to if there's going to be you know

01:07:16   a day one app store sdk story like you know which they insisted on for the watch probably

01:07:24   for you know you could say for better or for worse i think that original

01:07:28   watch kit was for worse um yes but presumably i think they want to get it like they want to be

01:07:35   the ones who disclose it and as like when we talk about the rumors we'll talk about like how the

01:07:38   different fcc's in the different countries pre-announce stuff way early for them all the time

01:07:43   but it's never the first one so like the original apple tv was or itv back then was announced and

01:07:48   then like it actually debuted with alongside the original iphone but then the original iphone was

01:07:52   announced in january shipped in june ipad was announced in january shipped in april apple watch

01:07:57   was announced in september switched shipped in march it's just they don't ever want that to be

01:08:02   in the fcc price and you know go back to the iphone right we were just talking about the

01:08:05   original iphone announced in january definitely not finished famously and you know when you talk

01:08:11   to people who worked on it there was like yeah that was like the hardest part was after it was

01:08:15   announced and we had to finish the damn thing uh but didn't ship until literally six months later

01:08:20   the like june 29th uh 2007 but the same thing where they don't have to submit to the regulatory

01:08:26   bodies and don't have to worry about it leaking so if they're on pace for it to ship in early

01:08:34   2023 like a year from now let you know more or less yeah uh it would actually to me be almost

01:08:42   surprising if they don't announce it in september a little bit surprising just because it you know

01:08:50   and then you know and and if for competitive reasons it inspires some number of people not to

01:08:56   buy an oculus for christmas because they want to wait for apple's thing well that you know i'm sure

01:09:01   that'll just break poor tim cook's heart you know yeah it'll pivot his tables so anyway what is

01:09:10   coming march 8th i i have not heard anything i'm not juiced in i don't ask anybody i don't know i

01:09:15   know all i do is i just listen to mark german and mark german says march 8th we know that apple

01:09:21   likes to have a spring event uh march 8th is a tuesday that sounds as good as as anything to me

01:09:27   i do think that's earlier it is an earlier date than usual for them um i just think last year was

01:09:34   april yeah well and i just know that that week i don't know i haven't been to south by southwest

01:09:39   in years but i know south by southwest is always right around like if not the first week of march

01:09:44   it's like that second week of march around those dates and back when i was going to south by

01:09:50   southwest i never it was never a conflict with apple events um yeah but you know if it's ready

01:09:55   it's ready and why not um what do we expect german says the 5g iphone se which is fascinating

01:10:04   a new ipad air and he says at least one new mac that day but doesn't say what it would be so let's

01:10:12   take them one at a time well number one do you think that's a do you think that's a good list

01:10:16   of things that they might announce early early in market yeah and we've talked about this before

01:10:20   it's always odd to me when you have sources good enough to tell you dates and products but not

01:10:24   exactly like not more specifically because this stuff was decided like those products were decided

01:10:29   years ago and the release dates were decided weeks if not months ago so like all the stuff is known

01:10:34   it's just fascinating to me how much of it gets out well and the mac one in particular right

01:10:38   because he's pretty specific about the other two you know a 5g new iphone se that's pretty specific

01:10:43   a new ipad air i mean and again we don't know the details i mean maybe is it going to have face id

01:10:48   now just face id trickle down to the non-pro ipads i mean but he doesn't say but that's you know we

01:10:54   know what the ipad air is it's it's apple's mid-range you know not the low one not the pro

01:10:59   one but it's sort of the the sweet locks yeah the goldilocks sweet one right in the middle

01:11:04   and then some sort of mac well we're waiting yes we're that and that's the worst part for me because

01:11:09   i'm more excited about the mac than the other products and it's like i need to know i want to

01:11:13   know which one it is am i should i start getting excited to get a new iMac i mean what's what's

01:11:18   going on the the 5g iphone se is interesting because 5g makes sense because you know the

01:11:24   carriers love getting all the phones on on the new network yes um you know and they're turning

01:11:30   you know literally as we speak atnt i think just this week i think they already did it turned off

01:11:35   their 3g network we had to deal with that because our home alarm system was on 3g and and uh

01:11:46   you know but we had plenty of notice from the company that we use that we you know that hey

01:11:52   this is you know this is going to be end of end of service and you know it's part of your plan

01:11:57   would you just have to schedule somebody to come in to upgrade you know the box on the wall to

01:12:02   support 5g or 4g i don't even know what they upgrade hopefully it was five i should have asked

01:12:06   because 5g would give us more years before the 4g stuff gets turned off um so it makes sense i mean

01:12:14   and if you watch tv like i watch sports and there's all you know you cannot can't watch

01:12:19   sports without seeing ads for cell phones from the carriers and all the i they always talk about 5g

01:12:25   5g 5g i mean that's famously two years ago at the iphone supercut 5g 5g 5g 5g 5 5g iphone

01:12:35   yeah 12 supports 5g 5g um so it makes sense you know that they'd want to get the se on there but

01:12:42   to me the more interesting thing is that the rumors are that the se would other will otherwise

01:12:47   still look like the se we have today that's the iphone 8 casing right with the home button with

01:12:55   perhaps only in one size you know because that would be the other thing that would

01:12:59   you know 5g to me is not a game changer and especially compared to lte and yeah upload

01:13:08   speed still are over lte so like when you do like a speed test don't be surprised that your 5g speed

01:13:14   for upload is exactly the same as it is when you turn off 5g because it actually doesn't use 5g

01:13:19   for anything but downloading um and i just i still after two two years of 5g i still you know it might

01:13:28   be maybe it's better as years go by it'll be more efficient and better on battery and stuff like

01:13:33   that but i still don't know any use case where i want to do blank but uh lte geez you know too slow

01:13:43   you know it's it is yeah it's more like um you're gonna get people who are on the original iphone se

01:13:48   sorry like the iphone se2 onto a qualcomm modem and for some people especially in edge areas the

01:13:54   intel modems were never as good if you had low reception or low signal in those areas so it's

01:13:59   just it's it's a better modem and for people who were underserved by lte like especially in rural

01:14:04   areas where they just never had maybe any signal or good signal the low band of 5g is slower than

01:14:10   lte but it's got way way better coverage and the mid band is faster and has roughly as good coverage

01:14:17   so for people who always had problems with lte it's going to be it's going to vastly improve a

01:14:22   lot of people's experience yeah so you know that's good right i i think i think what's more

01:14:27   interesting is that they're they're keeping the se models on that old industrial design

01:14:34   um and the the cynical take would be that it is market differentiation it's sort of like keeping

01:14:44   the iphone or the apple watch 3 around right where it's a little bit clunkier looking on your wrist

01:14:50   and it certainly has a clunkier screen with the the non-rounded corners and doesn't really go edge

01:14:56   to edge and it you know gets customers in the door looking for the se for the price and then

01:15:02   they see how much cooler the new phones are and then they buy one of those more expensive newer

01:15:07   phones instead but i think there's something else i think that it is apple trying to and i don't

01:15:14   know how much of this is their gut feeling you know jaws's gut feeling and how much of it is

01:15:20   actual market research which i think at the stakes they're playing at you know apple famously people

01:15:27   think they don't test anything but they that's not true they do they do test things you know they

01:15:32   just don't make the decisions based entirely on the results of asking you know doing like uh

01:15:38   consumer surveys and stuff like that yeah but i think there's got to be a huge factor of

01:15:43   the iphone is so popular as so many hundreds of millions of users that it spans the gamut from the

01:15:51   people like us who are complete nerds and really couldn't wait to play with the brand new iphone

01:15:58   10 and this new interaction model to people like my mom and dad well my dad hardly uses the iphone

01:16:05   so i'm i'm throwing my mom out here not because of the canard that it's the you know it's your mom

01:16:12   who doesn't understand technology but my dad literally doesn't even he uses an ipad but for

01:16:16   whatever reason won't use my mom's iphone but my mom wanted the se when she got a new phone a year

01:16:23   ago or so because she wanted one that worked exactly like her old phone that she felt like

01:16:28   she'd mastered the old one she wanted a home button she just was and i was like okay fine

01:16:33   this is a probably a great phone for you anyway personally you know it regardless but i i don't

01:16:39   know what number of iphone users are in that sphere where they they would prefer

01:16:46   price aside they want one with a home button that works just like the one they had

01:16:51   and that apple and the options are good and like apple family like they you're right like they

01:16:56   they don't do the same kind of market uh research that other companies do but they do a lot of

01:17:00   demand forecasting and try to figure out because like compared to samsung for example they sell very

01:17:05   very few phones and it looks like they sell a lot of phones now because there's five models but

01:17:09   still five miles is like what samsung has for lunch and so they have to make sure that those

01:17:13   phones cover as wide a gamut of potential users as possible those segments are really really large

01:17:19   and they're interesting like the original iphone se was both small and cheap and they got the benefit

01:17:23   of both those markets and i think they were surprised by how many people just wanted the

01:17:27   cheaper iphone so much so that they they under they under report they under forecast on it but

01:17:32   then they had a separate iphone mini and a separate iphone se in 2020 and they could sort of suss out

01:17:38   where people's interests were and i think that was really informative for them and in general that the

01:17:43   the original se came out in 2016 se2 came out in 2020 which means se3 would probably be 2024

01:17:50   in an iphone 11 style casing but because we're only halfway there i think otherwise they wouldn't

01:17:57   update it now they would just keep it on the market the way the original se was but 5g is so

01:18:01   important to carriers and how they're moving things over um and apple has this other strategy where

01:18:06   like the like the ipod touch is probably the most infamous example but it's the device you love with

01:18:11   new internal so that you can keep on loving it just a little while longer you know before we end

01:18:16   of life it this this will get unlike the apple watch s apple watch 3 which didn't get any

01:18:21   improvements like they just kept it on the market this will have a new processor it'll have better

01:18:25   camera it'll have a better modem i'm worried about the battery life because it was already not good

01:18:31   on the se2 and that has way fewer demands than a new processor and a new modem but in general it

01:18:36   just means it's that that really inexpensive entry-level iphone that's more useful to people

01:18:40   who still want it yeah i think that maybe but i think if they follow the pattern of previous

01:18:47   se's it will have the a a what are we up to a14 what's the bionic well a15 it is the current one

01:18:55   is 15 a15 all right so we're we're two above the iphone model i i would expect it to have the a15

01:19:01   because that's the se's have always come out with like you know they come out in march or april

01:19:07   but they've got the top of the line a series chip from six months prior and the battery life gains

01:19:15   from the a14 to a15 my favorite example i've never stopped repeating it is that the iphone 13 mini

01:19:22   gets better longer battery life than yes the full size regular size iphone 12 from the year before

01:19:30   so yeah you know so that would also explain to me why they didn't do the 5g iphone se last year

01:19:37   right that now is the year where it all adds up the battery life story is resolved um because

01:19:44   it would be a bigger device than the iphone 13 mini so i i would think battery life would be

01:19:51   fine even with the 5g and the new modem is more efficient right the iphone 12 was as well it's

01:19:56   just a whole in general and this will come up again we talk about the next macbook air but

01:19:59   that architecture the a15 is a much cooler architecture in general yeah yeah it def it's

01:20:05   you know it's been proven over the last you know what five months since we've been using them four

01:20:10   months whatever um but the other thing that's that's missing in the se lineup right the se is

01:20:16   clearly built on the the physical form factor of the iphone 6 7 8 iphones but those phones all came

01:20:28   in regular and plus sizes and the iphone se that we have is only in the regular size not plus

01:20:35   and i think according to the rumors but who knows you know they could surprise us but it sounds like

01:20:41   that's just they're just going to replace the same size four point whatever inch you know uh

01:20:46   or whatever that size is but it's you know not the plus not the plus size screen

01:20:55   which some people would obviously buy right some people we now know just want bigger screens whether

01:21:00   it's the laptop yes yeah tablet or the phone and there if they still don't come out with an iphone

01:21:08   se plus to me that's that's product marketing saying if you want a big if you would like a

01:21:15   big screen iphone you've got to upgrade to one of these more expensive models with the newer form

01:21:20   factor yeah it's that and it's also there's some element of demand forecasting again because like

01:21:25   when they segment you have to supply two like it's it's like a running the math doing the doing the

01:21:31   math and like how much does it cost us to put two mark two phones in the market how many of each do

01:21:35   we think will sell how much more does it cost us to have two models instead of one if we just sold

01:21:39   one would we get 75 of the se customers anyway so it really doesn't behoove us to have it like in an

01:21:44   ideal world they would absolutely do not like like samsung again with every quarter inch of sizing for

01:21:49   whatever your preference is but they would do multiple products i just think they um they they

01:21:55   know they don't want to over commit to any one market anymore they want to they're going to be

01:21:59   more conservative in how they do especially the lower end entry level where really price is the

01:22:04   most important feature for people yeah there's been reports that they were working on it for

01:22:08   years but that they keep canceling it like there were reports about the se plus i think going back

01:22:12   two three years already yeah yeah i'd uh i definitely remember seeing rumors about it and it

01:22:18   makes logical sense you know to have it but it's it to me it leads to the next segment which is the

01:22:24   mystery which mac are are they which mac or max are they going to announce next month which to me

01:22:31   is the the the biggest missing mac in the lineup by far is a bigger consumer priced macbook right

01:22:42   like so the macbook pros are now on 14 inch 16 inch but with foot or with footprints that are

01:22:52   very very similar to 13 inch 15 inch from years past it's just that the screen sizes

01:22:58   have gained an inch by going edge to edge and you know some minor tweaks to the footprints

01:23:04   but you know it in in ballpark descriptive terms i would describe the 14 inch macbook pro and the

01:23:16   macbook air of today which is the 13 inch screen as regular sized laptops and the 16 inch macbook

01:23:26   pro as a big laptop not the biggest you know apple used to make the 17 inch lunch tray the battleship

01:23:32   right which i i actually was just looking up like i said my trip down memory lane of circuit 2005

01:23:41   6 7 apple history steve jobs when he had his first surgery uh and announced that you know he'd had his

01:23:47   pancreas operated on for cancer wrote a letter to the company you know saying team i wanted you to

01:23:53   hear this from me i've you know the doctors found this thing and they i just had operation i'm

01:23:58   writing this from my hospital bed on my 17 inch macbook pro and it was because like he knew it

01:24:05   was going to leak and he was like well he had to mention he had to mention an apple product in there

01:24:11   and i always wondered was he really writing it on a 17 inch macbook pro or was it that's just the

01:24:18   newest thing that he wanted to promote and he said he did i mean i'm not accusing steve jobs of being

01:24:23   a liar but he could be an exaggerator but it also seems like prototype ipad he couldn't talk about

01:24:28   but uh you know big laptop regular size laptop and you know in years past they've had small laptops

01:24:37   like the uh long ago uh 11 inch macbook airs and then the gone but not forgotten just plain no

01:24:46   adjective 12 inch macbook um you know small medium large some products i i think when apple is has

01:24:54   a product at its best they either have two sizes an apple watch is a perfect example of that right

01:25:01   and putting aside the idea that there might be a rugged apple watch or something like that

01:25:05   you know for the apple watch as we know it two sizes seems just just right i think for the phone

01:25:11   i really like you know and i know the rumors say there's no more mini and whatever but i

01:25:16   like the mini regular max sizing and i feel like that really is a phone for everybody

01:25:23   laptops i kind of wish they had mini regular max um but even if at the two tiers pro lap macbooks

01:25:33   and non-pro macbooks two seems good right like 14 and 16 inch for the pros but i i feel like the

01:25:41   biggest missing ipad for years or macbook for years has been a bigger consumer priced

01:25:49   macbook whether it's called large screens get conflated with premium when they don't they're

01:25:53   not really an overlap in those features because there are a lot of people for a lot of reasons

01:25:56   who want a bigger screen but don't need a pro right device and you know it's nice to have a

01:26:02   big screen right and if you have the desk space and you know you don't mind the extra weight in

01:26:07   your backpack or whatever and you know lots and lots of people hardly ever move their macbooks

01:26:13   from their desks you know they buy a macbook so that they have a portable when they need it

01:26:18   but they keep it on their desk 90 some percent of the time maybe high 90 percent of the time

01:26:24   and so getting the biggest screen they they feel is within their budget makes a lot of sense because

01:26:29   a big screen is nice and it's there even people right now who are concerned that the m1 imac

01:26:36   is going to only be 24 inches and that if you want a 27 inch it's going to have to be an m1 pro or m1

01:26:41   max when they really just want a bigger screen again right right oh i i think i do think again

01:26:46   no inside knowledge but just judging by the way they did the macbooks i think that's going to be

01:26:52   the case right like where the only way to get a big screen macbook for years for all along has

01:26:59   been to buy the macbook pro 16 inch or 15 inch back and when it was 15 inch and it's not just

01:27:06   paying for the bigger screen because the bigger macbooks have also had like you know sometimes

01:27:12   faster chips and faster graphics and and for thermal reasons compared to the smaller versions

01:27:18   you end up paying a significant mark uh you know minimum price like i think that the cheapest

01:27:25   16 inch macbook pro right now i think it's two thousand dollars 1999 yeah i guess i should look

01:27:30   it up uh which is way more than the 999 here it's twice the price you know whereas and it's

01:27:37   it to me epitomizes the difference between the apple ecosystem and the broader windows slash

01:27:47   linux chromebook pc ecosystem which is that whatever your budget you can find a pc laptop

01:27:56   you know if you really want like a 16 inch screen but you don't want to spend a lot of money you can

01:28:00   definitely find you'll you'll be you know you'll have an arm's length list of choices from various

01:28:06   companies del will let you build it from parts definitely right it is it and it's such i don't

01:28:14   know so it are they going to deal with it it seems like there's an awful lot of you know with the

01:28:20   rumors for what apple is doing with the consumer macbooks as they go to the m2s and do their second

01:28:26   revision um you know i i talk about this this is why it's great to have a podcast because it's

01:28:33   i have nothing to write about because i know nothing but i have lots of ideas but i don't

01:28:38   think what it's interesting because like the larger macbook air mark german reported on that

01:28:41   too but said that that had been either delayed or scrapped as well so like it's not that apple

01:28:45   isn't thinking about it it's just that they don't seem to think that it's that they want they need

01:28:48   to bring it to market uh yeah i guess uh the the to me the product that two product a product that

01:29:00   doesn't make sense anymore is what's currently known as the 13 inch macbook pro and yes to me

01:29:06   it's always been ever since it was announced as sort of in that time when we were waiting for

01:29:14   a retina macbook air and phil shiller did the spiel and sort of said like hey you know if if

01:29:22   what you're looking for is something with the footprint of a macbook air with a retina screen

01:29:27   this low-end 13-inch macbook pro compares very nicely and put them up side by side and the price

01:29:34   was only a couple hundred bucks more and the footprint is the same and the weight was very

01:29:38   good because they'd made it thinner even though it's not teardrop shaped and ahead of retina screen

01:29:42   um but you know and what were the trade-offs compared to the more expensive 13-inch models

01:29:48   well they had two ports instead of four ports and was you know had yeah some sort of intel

01:29:54   you know lower lower price bar which right no touch bar right right which for a lot of people

01:29:59   was a feature there i know people firsthand who were torn because they would rather have the

01:30:03   faster macbook pro but didn't want the touch bar and so they're like i guess i'll just buy the one

01:30:08   without the touch bar to me that would clean this up quite a bit and again are they going to keep

01:30:15   the name air it seems like macbook air has sort of stopped meaning air meaning thinner and lighter

01:30:22   and it's just sort of taken on it just it's like kleenex you know it it's just a brand name macbook

01:30:29   air it's just people know it that's the macbook they want right what macbook do you want i want

01:30:34   the air it's also become conflated with cheapest like the cheapest mac and that's never been the

01:30:38   case at launch it's always launched it way more than 999 and then gone down to 999 but now when

01:30:43   when they try to introduce new ones and they're more expensive people get really upset yeah

01:30:48   definitely um and by the way i have to i i need to uh clarify this i did i did the research the 16

01:30:56   inch macbook pro starts at 2500 not 2000 it's the fourth the 14 inch starts at two thousand dollars

01:31:04   so there's there's a lot of room in that thousand to two thousand dollar range for more macbooks

01:31:11   and from people who absolutely positively or would be over served by the m1 pro and m1 max

01:31:19   chipsets right the that that that is the the the absolute blessing of the tremendous performance of

01:31:27   the current apple silicon that the regular m1 is just terrific and the m2 will be even better

01:31:34   um they don't need it but there's so much room in there and calling the 1400 ish macbook the pro

01:31:45   is to me just confusing i i i so i kind of hope that they go away from that and leave the pros

01:31:53   be what we now know as the 14 and 16 inch macbook pros keep the pro name for those make them very

01:32:01   distinctive just like how with the iphone the pros are so distinctive right shiny stainless steel

01:32:08   bigger camera pro yeah brushed aluminum yeah smaller camera regular you know so there's

01:32:16   nothing like in the old iphone x body that's called the iphone pro minus or something that's

01:32:20   just a cheaper level right fake pro so i i would love to see them do with the macbooks

01:32:26   even if they just did it follow the lead of the iphone right so the pros have two sizes

01:32:33   regular 14 inch big 16 inch and the regular ones would have two sizes mini go back to 12 inch

01:32:43   and regular 14 inch and and have two two machines like that uh and so if you really want a tiniest

01:32:52   tiniest macbook that apple has ever made uh you could get the new 12 inch macbook air or whatever

01:32:58   they would call it you know maybe they just call it the macbook again i don't know and if you want

01:33:04   a you know a mid-size macbook at a consumer price bump it up to 14 inches which would be a you know

01:33:11   a nice increase from 13 uh and keep it a lower price that's what i hope they do i have no idea

01:33:16   if that's what's in the works but it would make a lot more sense than using the names new low-end

01:33:24   macbook pro and you know and talking about the macbook air as though it's definitely only one

01:33:31   size because it doesn't have to be yeah yeah no it's super interesting because what apple when

01:33:37   apple does those those uh you want to fano snaps those bezels there's two ways it does it one is

01:33:42   like the smaller ipad pro where they made the an 11 inch screen in the previous 10.5 inch enclosure

01:33:50   and the other is like the 12.9 inch ipad pro where they just removed as much device size around it so

01:33:56   it was the same screen size but a way smaller package and we've seen them do that now like the

01:34:01   16 inch macbook pro is just a little bit thinner than even the previous 16 inch model but they got

01:34:05   a 14 inch display now in in the new 14 inch model and my guess is that the next the m2 um macbook or

01:34:14   macbook air is not going to be a direct replacement for the current m1 macbook air they're going to

01:34:18   keep that around at 999 but they're going to go back to what the the old macbook was and that is

01:34:24   a premium ultralight model with an m2 chip and even smaller bezels so if i don't think it'll be

01:34:30   12 inches but i think it'll it'll be the same physical size as the 12 inch it just won't have

01:34:34   any bezels so the screen will still be like third and there was 13 point something or 12 point

01:34:38   something like it's never as rounded off as the marketing but it'll be a much bigger screen in

01:34:42   the same size body for more money because like mini it's a bill of goods things mini led is

01:34:47   expensive and the chipsets are going to be expensive at first and apple wants to recoup

01:34:51   they want to pay that down as fast as possible and then they'll leave the existing m1 on the market

01:34:56   at 999 until they can replace it but i think that's the same thing that's sort of damning that

01:35:00   13 inch macbook pro because the current one the m1 is going to it's 18 months old already it's going

01:35:06   to be 24 months old by the end of the year they could put it inside they could have a lower end

01:35:11   version of the 14 inch that has an m2 in it but if m2 is like m1 it won't have enough usbc and

01:35:17   thunderbolt controllers for all those ports and it would be they'd have to like make an enclosure

01:35:22   that paves over some of those ports which would be weird like they would totally do it but it would

01:35:26   be weird and they also have like even though apple is like one of the biggest companies in the world

01:35:30   they have such little bandwidth this one id team was one industrial design team and the mac team

01:35:35   seems only able to push out you know two new macs a year and they have to pick and this year it

01:35:40   sounds like that's going to be the macbook air the mac pro and a variation of the of the imac and

01:35:46   there's just not enough time or bandwidth to make something else so that's why i think it's it's it's

01:35:51   it's wrong for all the wrong reasons but they're going to just slap that m2 in the existing macbook

01:35:57   pro 13 inch chassis the macbook air pro or pro air whatever you really want to call it and let that

01:36:03   slide for another year and make that 2023 problem the other thing that's very clear from the iphone

01:36:09   marketing is that the pro name only goes on the latest and greatest so they sell and i know that

01:36:15   if you go to carriers around the world you can still get like a iphone 10r and stuff like that

01:36:22   but what apple will sell you is the iphone 13 pro iphone 13 regular iphone 12 regular two sizes

01:36:30   the iphone se and the iphone 11. pro means latest and greatest and i again i think that clarity

01:36:38   would be so much better for the macbook branding just get rid of that low-end macbook pro and make

01:36:44   kick-ass macbook airs that completely satisfy anybody's need who wants that that that you know

01:36:52   price range of macbook totally agree i think the difference is with the mac market specifically

01:36:57   since 2016 is that apple saw that there was a large and growing group of people who self-identified

01:37:04   as pros but we're pros in the traditional context and that they were willing to give extra money

01:37:09   just to have the pro branding so it became like airpods pro more than iphone pro and just making

01:37:14   that product really swell is swelled up their sales well then let them spend two thousand

01:37:19   dollars to get to get the 14 inch and again tim cook can thank us for it uh well me and you we

01:37:25   can send we can send them a consulting bill you know it's it's only going to make tim cook uh

01:37:31   like you said uh pivot his tables yes all right the the other big mac that we're obviously all

01:37:38   waiting for and i alluded to it is the big iMac do we think that's coming in uh which i presume

01:37:46   will simply have the the m1 pro and max guts of the the macbook pros that were just announced at

01:37:55   the end of last year uh in the same way that the 24 inch iMac had the same m1 guts as the first

01:38:04   round of m1 macbooks and the mac mini from 2020 2020. yeah do we think it's coming in early march

01:38:15   i don't think so i think the there was three max that were registered in the and i'm blanking on

01:38:21   which version it was was an eastern european i think it was yeah it was like it was like russia

01:38:25   i think i i i mean ecc yeah of all the you know countries you know that i don't know if you've

01:38:30   heard they're in they're in the news uh yeah yeah like the russian regulatory agency leak leak these

01:38:37   things whether that means they're imminent or just somehow they were filed months in advance

01:38:41   i mean presumably the 27 inch or 30 whatever it's going to be the bigger iMac with the m1 pro and m1

01:38:50   max inside i presumably it would come at WWDC at the latest yeah right i mean i alongside a preview

01:38:58   of the m1 pro mac pro or whatever right right i that's it whether they that's what they're you

01:39:04   know that's the schedule that they're going to announce it at WWDC in june or they're going to do

01:39:10   it uh next week or two weeks from now in early march or whether they're planning on one more

01:39:18   event in between this march 1 and WWDC you know like a late april type of thing uh we don't know

01:39:27   it's hard for them given how much prep there is for WWDC every year yeah and it's it yeah exactly

01:39:34   it just seems easier to do one event with more devices packed in than two and i know and i'm

01:39:42   sure you remember but like because i you and i had a really funny conversation in 2017 when they did

01:39:47   the mother of all WWDCs and not only did they do every operating system but they did new mac pros

01:39:52   new iMacs the home pod new ipad pros and you were just like i'm not i'm not taking any of this stuff

01:39:58   back with me right there's way too much and i went there i talked to one of them and they're like

01:40:03   Gruber's not coming uh what else might they announce there's also the pro level mac mini

01:40:12   which you know and the mac mini is has been split basically in in rough look you know description

01:40:18   like the 13-inch macbook pros were where there's the pro pro one with more ports and better

01:40:28   performance and then the sort of ads just sort of the basic one with two ports and you know this and

01:40:34   that yeah well they got rid of that right like originally the the mac mini came out as the 500

01:40:40   you swap it in you rip out your pc you put this in and then they didn't update it for a long long

01:40:45   long long time and then famously in 2018 they came out with like a real strut and saying now it's a

01:40:51   pro level product it's more expensive but it's got all these pro features and they discontinued

01:40:55   the low end model and then again in 2020 they came out with it made it silver again because it had

01:41:00   gone to space gray and only made a low end model and they've left the intel model like with the

01:41:05   like previously with the macbook pros and currently with the iMac they've left the intel one that's a

01:41:09   high-end pro version right i mean you could still go in the apple store and buy a 27-inch iMac

01:41:13   that's got an intel chip in it i that's my gut and again just sort of my you know i can kind of

01:41:20   smell the way you know i i sniff test the way apple thinks my guess is that the pro tier mac

01:41:28   mini will be space gray right and with the apple silicon right so if you see in a mac mini you'll

01:41:34   be even you'll even be able to know is it a consumer level apple silicon mac mini or a pro

01:41:39   level one is it regular gray or space gray how much great the rumors are also that it's going

01:41:45   to get a redesign and that the consumer version might be like the iMac where it's going to have

01:41:50   this this new top on it and and size that are going to be colored like multi-colored as well

01:41:54   right yeah that would be interesting uh what else displays people think that pros don't like colors

01:42:00   because like they don't make the pro stuff in color but if you're actually a pro and you're

01:42:03   working on color correct material you can't have like red or green or blue blowing out the cones

01:42:08   in your eyes while you're trying to do your your color sensitive work so that's why those are always

01:42:12   gray yeah but your mac mini you could just you could just put a throw it in the closet yeah yeah

01:42:16   throw it in the closet put a put a handkerchief over it or something you know it's not not hard

01:42:22   to hide i mean as opposed to the the iMacs right there's no getting away from the color on the

01:42:28   yes on the the colorful iMacs um and then that leads us to standalone displays right like what

01:42:34   do you hook up the thing and you know uh i don't believe the rumors that they're working on multiple

01:42:40   sizes of consumer grade uh you know there's rumors that spit you know 24 inch 27 inch a new

01:42:47   xdr an updated version of the xdr that actually would have like apple silicon chip inside to do

01:42:54   some sort of whatever you know processing properly mini led because that one was just before mini led

01:42:59   it's still it has way more uh discrete display zones but it's it's not it's still regular led

01:43:04   to me i think the best we can hope for i mean i i would love it i because i i i really think apple

01:43:11   has been disappointed by the third-party display market picking up the slack uh if apple doesn't

01:43:19   do it it's apparently no one's going to do it and it does get into the different i know i've spoken

01:43:24   with this spoken about this on the show probably with you at some point but it does get into like

01:43:29   another fundamental difference in the pc market and the mac market where in the pc market retina

01:43:34   is not as big a deal and a huge part of the pc market of of people who are willing to spend

01:43:40   let's say you know a premium for a really good display are gamers who don't definitely don't

01:43:48   want retina right they want frame rate and brightness and other things and retina would

01:43:53   actually defeat the purpose of getting the highest possible frame rate that they can get

01:43:58   um well it's also they'll take a 4k display if you give it to them but they have no need for

01:44:02   color management where people who are working on a mac they want to take advantage of the end-to-end

01:44:06   color management it'd be ridiculous not to and reference modes and all those things right and

01:44:10   you know all the various features that apple has across all their displays and yeah true tone and

01:44:14   etc um and a decent looking enclosure that doesn't destroy your wi-fi or fritz out or something that's

01:44:21   plagued all the lg versions of the exact same panel or wobble yeah like it's just like it's

01:44:27   the exact same panel as the imac that they just put it in the worst possible enclosure i don't see

01:44:32   how i know some people you know i don't i forget what's german and what's not but some people

01:44:36   have speculated maybe it's just the pro mac mini that's coming in march and not the imac i don't

01:44:43   that to me is a hard announcement because to me there's more people waiting for the imac and it

01:44:49   and it's a more exciting thing to show right it's going to be good looking and exciting to look at

01:44:57   in the way that last year's consumer grade 24-inch imacs work whereas no matter what they do with the

01:45:02   mac mini form factor right it it it's it's a mini it's just a little it's a little square you know

01:45:10   the only like interesting thing they could do is if they wanted to announce dual die m1 max but

01:45:14   then you ruin that for an imac pro or a mac pro announcement later right like they specifically

01:45:20   didn't announce a15 with the ipad mini because they wanted to do that with the iphone and like

01:45:24   that's the exact same problem with announcing a mac mini without announcing my mac pro or a mac pro

01:45:28   all right so i don't know you know i guess i i would guess what of the mac mini with pro you know

01:45:37   m1 max m1 pro silicon and the bigger pro max imac if we don't hear about them in early march

01:45:46   we'll get them at wwdc or before but it would be a little weird to have another event before but

01:45:52   we'll see what do you think about like because a lot of people are concerned that if they are now

01:45:56   like they they conflate the number with the capabilities so that an m2 comes out it suddenly

01:46:02   makes m1 pro and m1 max seem obsolete and why would apple do this and the whole branding is bad

01:46:08   and it reminds me of when the a12z ipad pro came out six months after the a13 in the iphone and

01:46:15   people had the exact same issue with it and you know you could explain to them it's way more

01:46:20   massively multi-core so even though each single core isn't as fast you have so many more cores

01:46:26   but they just see a number on a package do you think that's gonna affect m2 versus m1 pro or max

01:46:31   well i think it's going to be interesting because i do i would expect then that when they do this

01:46:36   that the m2s will have better single core performance right i mean and we're that's going

01:46:43   to rub people the wrong way even though that's the way the intel world has worked it's just that it's

01:46:48   no it's it's so that the nomenclature is so less clear right like so for example the xeon chips in

01:46:55   the imac pro that the slate you know the space gray imac pro that was based on the intel stuff

01:47:01   had you know i i think even when it debuted had worse single core performance than some certain

01:47:07   other models it's the multi-core thing right so especially the high core count ones they

01:47:11   was went really right down right like so like the the basic story of how you know these pro multi uh

01:47:19   you know with an emphasis on the parallel processing right like having 20 cpu cores or 40

01:47:27   up to 40 which we might get in in the the highest end mac pro with apple silicon 40 cpu cores you

01:47:36   know who even knows i mean how many fingers you need to count all the gpu cores they're going to

01:47:41   have but that the way that this works is you come out with the consumer version with fewer cores

01:47:49   with the latest and greatest process and you get the greatest highest single core performance and

01:47:55   then it's like an 18-month window before it filters down to the multi-core people i think

01:48:02   will just have to deal with it i do think that there will be a media freak out of holy crap

01:48:08   they're selling they're selling this mac pro for you know what forty thousand dollars whatever is

01:48:15   going to go up to it right put a crazy price tag on a maxed out mac pro with apple silicon with

01:48:22   40 cores and uh you know 100 gpu cores and gobs and gobs and gobs of ram and this huge price tag

01:48:30   of like a luxury car and they're like hey and it you know it loses on single core geek bench to

01:48:36   a you know a 1200 MacBook air with an m2 i deal with it that's the you know you know then then

01:48:43   then luck if you're impressed by that then lucky you spend the 1200 comes to my house and hits my

01:48:50   computer with a baseball bat right i do think though that that's clearly going to be the case

01:48:54   i mean that's just the way it's clear the way it works it's just that you know and apple's

01:48:59   naman nomenclature of calling it the m1 and then the m1 pro and m1 max and then we're going to have

01:49:04   the m2 and the m2 max and m2 pro yeah you know by putting simple numbers on it it's it's easier

01:49:11   to understand than all the various lakes and the core i d nines and core i sevens and i mean we've

01:49:17   had core i sevens and i nines and i fives for a decade right like the five and the seven and the

01:49:23   nine don't correlate to whether they're newer or older they're they're tears and it's you know i'm

01:49:31   sure it makes sense to somebody at intel and you know and there are enthusiasts who have it all

01:49:35   memorized but you can't figure it out just from the names whereas with apple's names they're so

01:49:40   much more clear it certainly seems as though the pro computers should have faster everything than

01:49:48   the consumer ones but that's just not the way the silicon world works today and if they actually

01:49:53   they're smart they mitigate it because like when you look at the m1 pro and the m1 max they're

01:49:57   broken up into two zones so that you have half the cpu's in each of the zones and then one side could

01:50:02   be flat out with single core while the other side is the frequency is stepped down for multi-core so

01:50:07   you don't lose as much as you would in like just a generalized cpu environment but the the m1 is

01:50:13   based on the a14 from the iphone 12 and if it comes out anytime before the end of the year m2

01:50:17   will be based on the a15 and so you get a little bit better performance but way more efficient

01:50:22   performance cores way more performant efficiency cores way way better graphics cores pro right like

01:50:28   you get all of these things bundled into it that core for core is going to be better but you're

01:50:32   still not going to compete with 32 gpu cores on an m1 max yeah it's you know i i think we see the way

01:50:40   the pattern's going but it's definitely like i think for the foreseeable future going to be this

01:50:45   18 month at least cycle between the latest you know and and i guess even more maybe it's more

01:50:53   like a a a 30 month cycle if you count the a series chip from an iphone a year later becoming

01:51:03   the m plus one integer for the mac consumer and then 18 months after that before it filters to

01:51:11   the mac pro where it has 20 to 40 cores and etc etc you know it's which was the pattern right like

01:51:17   they had the a5x a6x no x no a7x a8x a9x a10x no a11x then a 12x 12z no 13x but then m1 is

01:51:27   essentially 14x so they were on like a 15 an 18 month cycle with the the extended versions of the

01:51:32   chips anyway right right so i don't know what do you think are they going to do a standalone

01:51:36   display at a consumer price i hope so i mean there have been rumors of it for a while and i

01:51:42   know everybody is like talking about custom apple silicon but apple has been making their own tcon

01:51:46   controllers for those displays like for the imac going back till 2014 or something so to me apple

01:51:52   silicon just sounds like they're going to have a display engine and something that'll minimize the

01:51:55   impact of the graphics on the card so that all makes a lot of sense to me if they could bring

01:51:59   that in for a thousand dollars it would certainly you i love this joke you made back at the event

01:52:03   where you're like 6k for 6k is that the price or the resolution you know and that's true though

01:52:08   like it's out of the reach of almost every consumer and that makes sense if you want to

01:52:12   bring a new technology to market but if you don't bring that technology down it doesn't help anybody

01:52:17   well and it's technically overkill right it's it you know it's the same thing as like buying a

01:52:21   40 core mac pro right like i i literally have no need there's nothing i do that's even vaguely that

01:52:28   parallel i know some people do right there's all sorts of people who do need it but the pro display

01:52:34   xdr costs so much because it does things that you really have to be like a color pro or video editing

01:52:42   a pro to you're supposed to save you money on a 40k display not cost you money on a 1k display

01:52:46   yeah it's the the issue of how much would an apple standalone display cost is is tough i would love

01:52:53   it if it was 999 and if you know if the iMac is like two thousand dollars to start it's you know

01:53:02   could you get the display from the iMac for half the price maybe you know if if it were 1,500 for

01:53:10   the display does it make sense that the display is three quarters of the cost of the iMac you know

01:53:16   you start running well that was the old joke is that you got the free you got the free computer

01:53:20   when you bought the iMac right but you never ever lose you never ever lose by betting the over

01:53:24   on how much blank from apple going to cost yeah and for everything like air tags where it's like

01:53:30   hey 29 bucks that's not bad you know that's a reasonable price there's all sorts of products

01:53:35   you know like the pro display xdr and the thousand dollar stands yeah the wheels how many wheels do

01:53:41   you want uh but it's oh boy ed and i you know i know that we you even mentioned that apple has a

01:53:47   rejuvenated they even announced it explicitly a rejuvenated interest in the mac mini as a product

01:53:54   and and want to support the people who depend on it for various reasons begging for a display

01:54:00   because it needs a display but even if you want to be a little cynical about how much apple cares

01:54:06   about the mac mini customers who need a display and that they think that people who are going to

01:54:11   spend five six seven eight ten thousand dollars on a mac pro they can just cough up the dough

01:54:17   for the pro display xdr yeah um to me the market for the big market for a standalone nice apple

01:54:26   display are the tens hundreds million users of macbooks who would like to have a standalone

01:54:32   display on their desk to connect their macbook to so and so desperate that a lot of us have said

01:54:37   we'll just take an imac just bring back target display right because we lost that when they

01:54:41   started making their own tcons because they couldn't sync to right 4k streams to make the

01:54:44   5k display when they haven't brought it back so you can't even you can't even give 1500 bucks for

01:54:48   a good imac and make that your display so hopefully they do it it would make for a better uh to me it

01:54:55   as i would imagine it makes for a better unveiling to be able to show the the new you know updated

01:55:03   mac minis connected to an apple display that doesn't start at six thousand dollars because

01:55:07   like why are you buying a mac mini if you have a six thousand dollar display um and you know it

01:55:13   would be cohesive to announce it alongside the new imac and say it's the same great display you know

01:55:20   whichever one they announce first i don't know maybe they announced the standalone display first

01:55:24   and then the imac or the imac and that but either way whichever one comes second they could say it's

01:55:28   the same great display with all the great mini led features and the every blah blah blah you know

01:55:34   then they could skip that whole part you know just say same great it's one case where like

01:55:39   because they did announce airplay but like that that's one case where wireless isn't as good

01:55:43   right like it just doesn't work as well as a cable at that point right uh i know we've gone a little

01:55:48   over the hour i was hoping for but uh a little bit a little bit but we still have to the rumor

01:55:54   is that there's going to be a new ipad air do we care yeah well so a lot of people kind of snickering

01:56:00   at the announcement it's going to be the iphone se and the and the air but those are huge like

01:56:04   not nerd like i think we forget sometimes at tech twitter and tech youtuber a very small percent of

01:56:09   apple's market like maybe 10 and there are a lot of people who just they would i don't know if they

01:56:13   care that much about an event but they really want updated or they want new iphone se's and new ipad

01:56:18   and so i think they're good products i don't know if they'll make particularly exciting event but

01:56:22   if they're there along with a couple other things like i could see them getting in the old days it

01:56:26   would be a couple slides like you know so we put up a couple and we're also updating this and we're

01:56:30   also updating that because the mac but the ipad air got its new redesign in 2020 but it didn't

01:56:36   get 5g the way that the mic the mac mini the ipad mini update got last year so just putting in the

01:56:42   new chip and putting in the new the new 5g radio brings it back up to par it's just not it's not

01:56:47   super thrilling yeah it sort of sets 5g as the baseline right like everything everything that

01:56:52   has a cellular modem from apple supports 5g or it's by some definition i don't i don't think the

01:56:58   watch does yet i don't know i i doubt it yeah i actually don't even know what the cellular watch

01:57:04   does no it's it's barely got what's got like uh piggybacked lte right but nobody i mean nobody's

01:57:09   using their you can't even use your watch as your only cell phone you know it's it's only a peripheral

01:57:14   to your phone so i i'm gonna say that doesn't count so yeah you know uh you know it it sticks

01:57:20   out a little bit that the brand new or brand new from the end of last year ipad mini is in some

01:57:26   ways technically superior to the ipad air so at least bring the ipad air up to that ipad mini

01:57:32   level and make it bigger it just does not seem like a you know it i'm sure they'll send cell

01:57:36   gobs of them i'm sure it'll be a great product it's good to get everything on 5g cannot see this

01:57:42   as uh if it were the only thing they had ready to go i don't think they'd have an event i think

01:57:47   that's the sort of thing where they would uh again covet times are weird you know but pre-covid times

01:57:52   they would just invite the media to new york or cooper and or cupertino yeah for briefings last

01:57:58   time with the new air right it really makes sense and how they do that sort of release in the covid

01:58:05   era uh even if if we're just at the tail end of it you know but some kind of do it by press release

01:58:10   maybe have some briefings a day in advance with the you know an nda you know this will be announced

01:58:17   you know tomorrow or something like that i just can't see how the ipad air makes for an event

01:58:21   i really don't because i because it's super interesting because like last year april was

01:58:25   an actual product event but the two previous ones uh 2018-20 2018-2019 2018 was an education

01:58:32   event in chicago 2019 was in cupertino but it was a services event and they did announce products

01:58:37   like new airpods and new macbook airs new mac new ipad airs new ipad minis but those were all

01:58:44   dropped in press releases in new york trips right to your point those weren't part of the event

01:58:48   well and and then you know to to cycle back to the same idea it's is is a brand new iphone se

01:58:56   demoable right if it looks the same as the iphone se we know and it just it looks the same has the

01:59:02   same starting price but has the a15 chip we already heard about six months ago and 5g which

01:59:08   has been out for you know almost two years how do you demo that right like there has to you know the

01:59:14   whole point of these shows whether they're actual on-stage events you know with in-person media

01:59:21   broadcast out there or these tv style shows that they've been doing since 2020 they have to show

01:59:27   something there has to be a story to tell and something to demo and to me the iphone se just

01:59:33   a faster chip that's only as fast as the iphones that came out six months ago in 5g

01:59:37   how do you demo that so that to me so they've done it like they jaws did a really good se demo

01:59:43   back in 2016 with the first one but the second one never got a demo because that event was

01:59:47   cancelled for coven so we just got we just got a press release for the iphone se 2 but the only

01:59:52   parallel i can think of is that entry level uh now it's 10.2 inch ipad where every year every

01:59:59   september they've been updating that and i try to think of that slide at the end that has all the

02:00:03   boxes on it that shows all the new features and how could you possibly fill that out and that's

02:00:07   the only thing that comes close because they spend two seconds talking about the new processor and

02:00:11   radio and then they recapitulate new features in ios and then they put the slide up at the end

02:00:16   but it's like a three minute long segment right and you know and they can do things for demos

02:00:21   that just show people using it you know like with the mini with the ipad mini they love showing it

02:00:26   with pilots you know who can put it in their big cargo pants side pocket you know and people use

02:00:31   it in this place in that place but there's only so much of that you can do i mean it's it there's

02:00:36   like a minimum length to an event which i would peg at about 45 minutes i mean yeah like if it's

02:00:44   you know only half an hour why why have the event so long story short that just it just fills me

02:00:49   with optimism that there's something exciting mac related yes to anchor this march 8th event

02:00:56   which to me would have to be the the bigger iMac because i just don't see the iphone se with 5g or

02:01:06   an ipad air with 5g as being uh you know how do you fill half out within a couple slides right

02:01:13   it's put them in the first 20 minutes and then you know yeah have some mac related boom you know to

02:01:21   go with it boy that that that's much more exciting yeah that's what i'm hoping for all right thank

02:01:27   you renee uh i would also like to thank you sir thank our our excellent sponsors we had memberful

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02:01:39   and of course our good friends at linode right here in philadelphia linode.com slash the talk

02:01:46   show congrats to linode too on a 900 million dollar acquisition from akamai which which broke

02:01:52   in between their last sponsorship in this one uh good deal by them uh anyway talk to you soon renee

02:01:59   thank you