The Talk Show

331: ‘John Was the Problem’, With Merlin Mann


00:00:00   If the talk show was like your bowel movements, you'd have to go see a doctor, right?

00:00:04   I mean, because this is...

00:00:05   This show is like something like the haunted house that the Kiwanis puts on.

00:00:09   They're like, "Put your hand in the bowl.

00:00:11   It's eyeballs and brains and beetles."

00:00:14   Whereas Dithering is literally like a professional show where you can like bank on it.

00:00:19   You know, Tuesday morning there's going to be a 15 minute and 0 second episode waiting

00:00:24   for you in your podcatcher, you know?

00:00:26   There you go.

00:00:27   It's great, but part of the deal was, "Okay, I love the idea, but how about this?

00:00:31   I don't want to deal with any of the publishing details."

00:00:36   And Ben was like, "That's great.

00:00:37   I love doing it."

00:00:38   And I'm like, "You love doing it?"

00:00:39   That's a standard...

00:00:40   That's a standard God of Soul in my contracts right now.

00:00:43   I am offer only.

00:00:44   You can come to me and say, "Be on my podcast," but I cannot have to turn anything off to

00:00:50   do it and it must require no work.

00:00:53   So we do the Zencastr.

00:00:54   And the way that I do it, I'm not a Chrome user, but...

00:00:58   It's not on any of my machines anymore.

00:01:00   I removed it from every...

00:01:01   I've got Vivaldi, which is Chrome-ish, but it doesn't have all the nasties, the Chrome.

00:01:06   I use the Brave, which is Chrome without the nasties.

00:01:11   I don't know anything else about it.

00:01:13   I don't...

00:01:14   I don't...

00:01:15   Yeah, I use Brave for two things.

00:01:17   I use it for recording Dithering, which is amazing through the Zencastr, or at least

00:01:22   from my perspective is not having to deal with it when I'm done.

00:01:28   And I stay logged into Amazon through my business Daring Fireball account, which I seldom use

00:01:37   for posting the money-making affiliate links.

00:01:43   But that's it.

00:01:44   I don't use it for anything else, but it's kind of amazing.

00:01:45   But anyway...

00:01:46   Well, we got onto Zoom, and I don't have...

00:01:54   It would be very subtle for me to say I don't have a lot of affection for Zoom as a product

00:01:58   service, an app, or a company.

00:02:00   Oh, no, we accidentally installed another packet-sniffing thing that you can't find.

00:02:06   Oh, now you've created a WebRik so people can run Rails and mine Bitcoin.

00:02:11   You're like, "What?

00:02:12   My kid has to be on this eight hours a day?

00:02:14   Really?"

00:02:15   But to get to where you're...

00:02:17   And this is a constant conundrum in the world of even middling levels of security is you're

00:02:23   always doing what you can to latch the screen door.

00:02:27   But with Zoom, I turned on all the, "Don't let this start streaming.

00:02:30   Don't automatically do anything."

00:02:32   But then I have to click all this crap and say, "Now recording," and all that kind of

00:02:36   stuff.

00:02:37   So then we played with a different one.

00:02:38   Alex said, "Let's try this other one," because Dan and I were using it.

00:02:41   It's another one of those based in a web browser ones.

00:02:45   And John, I give my back.

00:02:47   As with so many things, it's like, "I like this service, but I hate this app."

00:02:51   You know, whether that's Dropbox or whatever it is, the service is great, but the way you

00:02:56   interact with this is so gross.

00:02:59   And so I won't mention the name Clean Feed, but we started using this one.

00:03:04   And it has a couple quirks.

00:03:07   You get an exquisite exactly two files that match if you remember to hit the button at

00:03:14   the same time, and otherwise you get drift.

00:03:16   Anyway, that's cool.

00:03:17   What it doesn't give you, though, is something I do that you'll get from me or Caleb and

00:03:21   you will get from me, which is I have my side, I have your side, and I have a side called

00:03:25   everything, which is like a reference track in case you need to fix anything.

00:03:30   It's just handy to have.

00:03:31   So first of all, you get these two files.

00:03:32   That's all fine.

00:03:33   Here's the thing, John.

00:03:34   It all happens in the browser.

00:03:36   If you close, there's no way to stop the call.

00:03:39   You just close the browser, and it's like this just feels really not Mac-ass Mac stuff

00:03:44   to me, which is fine, but also if you forget to save the files in the browser before you

00:03:52   close the window, they don't exist anymore.

00:03:55   You can't go get it from anywhere because it only existed, as far as I know, it might

00:03:59   have improved, but I never thought I'd have fondness for Skype.

00:04:03   So I don't, but it's the devil I know.

00:04:07   The Zencastr thing is pretty neat where they do save the files locally, and so whatever

00:04:13   catastrophe might happen, like let's say an accidental command-Q, while you're, you think

00:04:20   you're looking at Apple Notes or something while you're recording, but instead your browser's

00:04:25   frontmost, you command-Q or command-W, whatever, you close it, they've got you covered.

00:04:33   Is that local?

00:04:35   Is it locally?

00:04:36   Yeah, they've been writing an MP3 file locally throughout the whole thing.

00:04:40   But on the other hand, my thought is it makes me sick to think that a web browser is able

00:04:46   to do that, right?

00:04:48   That you just go to a website and it can just be writing an MP3 file the whole time, and

00:04:54   it's not the--

00:04:55   When Audio Hijack does that, it's what the doctor ordered, but there's certain kinds

00:05:00   of magic to which I am not attracted, because then I go, "Huh, how's it doing that?"

00:05:06   It's kind of weird.

00:05:07   I also think, and I think you're like me, and maybe it's an old person's thing, and

00:05:12   we just have this, however old you are, and if somebody who's older than me and you and

00:05:19   has even stronger feelings about the personal part of a personal computer to encapsulate

00:05:26   it, but the way that Zoom and Chrome update themselves and you have no option about it,

00:05:35   there's nowhere to dig--

00:05:36   And Skype.

00:05:37   Skype.

00:05:38   That was why Call Recorder, I think, finally threw in the towel.

00:05:40   Threw in the towel.

00:05:41   Was they couldn't keep up with-- There's not a P list, there's not a terminal command,

00:05:46   I'm not aware of any way to tell Skype, "Please stop updating."

00:05:50   Just stop.

00:05:51   Just tell me if you have to do it.

00:05:53   But people who accept that that's good, and there are people who will argue with you that

00:06:00   this is good because people don't update, they don't click through, they let their software

00:06:07   stagnate because it's not broken, so they don't want to mess with anything, which used

00:06:13   to be a sensible--

00:06:14   I have to harangue my family just to do basic iOS updates, because that's been a big deal

00:06:20   since the summer.

00:06:21   And I was like, "Hey, by the way, do your iOS right now, because there's something in

00:06:25   the wild that's a little janky."

00:06:28   And I'll tell my kid about some feature that would be perfect for her, and she'll be like,

00:06:32   "Well, she'll go and look, 'Oh yeah, I'm on iOS 7,' or whatever."

00:06:37   I like it that way.

00:06:39   But on the other hand, it's like, to me-- So I get the motivation.

00:06:43   I don't think that the people who implement these auto-update, no-option features, I get

00:06:50   what they're thinking, and they're thinking, "We know better than you because--"

00:06:53   That's a kind of enterprise approach.

00:06:56   It is.

00:06:57   It's an enterprise approach to personal computing.

00:06:58   But the problem is-- And maybe I'm wrong to draw analogies to the real world, but if I

00:07:05   woke up and it's the start of a day, it's Wednesday, tomorrow, I wake up and I look

00:07:13   at my keys-- And I only care, I have two keys.

00:07:16   I have a key to the house, and I have a key to a post office box, and I've got a little--

00:07:24   Success in life at a certain point becomes the fewer number of keys that you need.

00:07:29   I don't want to look like a jailer.

00:07:30   I'm very happy to have-- I have exactly two keys on my ring, and that is it.

00:07:35   I was very upset, though, when I got the PO box.

00:07:38   And I think you and I have talked about this.

00:07:39   You kind of have to have the PO box, right?

00:07:42   But I put it off for years.

00:07:43   Like a DMZ.

00:07:45   The two things that I procrastinated on for way too many years after clearly this was

00:07:51   going to be my career, this daring fireball stupid thing, was getting an actual LLC for

00:07:59   the business, which I did at this point, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago.

00:08:03   It's a long time.

00:08:04   I've had it for a very long time, but I still-- I was years late doing it.

00:08:08   And the second part was getting a PO box to get mail.

00:08:13   It annoyed me, though, because until then I only had one key.

00:08:16   One key just to the house.

00:08:18   And I could just put that one key in that little jeans pocket.

00:08:21   Oh, it's beautiful.

00:08:22   I still keep my keys in that pocket.

00:08:24   But two--

00:08:25   And your Levi's, like what they call the watch pocket?

00:08:27   Yeah, the watch pocket.

00:08:28   But for me, it's a keys pocket.

00:08:29   Over the years, that pocket has reflected many changes in my life.

00:08:32   It's been for guitar picks.

00:08:33   It's been for arcade tokens.

00:08:36   For a long time, it was for Imodium, as I'm glad I don't need as much anymore.

00:08:40   The watch pocket is a boom companion.

00:08:43   Speaking about irregularity.

00:08:47   Regular publishing.

00:08:48   You know, this is a-- I don't know how.

00:08:51   I'm just-- the centrifugal force of the pain in life somehow constantly leads me back to

00:08:57   bitching about technology, which is-- it's excruciating.

00:09:01   I'm really sorry anybody asked here.

00:09:02   But this has actually become a theme fairly often, including on today's Back to Work with

00:09:06   Dan, which is when you talk about the personal part of PC, I am entirely aware of the benefits

00:09:14   that come from somebody taking care of that stuff for me.

00:09:18   And like you say, especially if you're in enterprise, or as we used to say, a large

00:09:22   company, if you're in a large company, you need to know that your stuff's going to get

00:09:26   updated.

00:09:27   You know that the screensaver's going to-- there's all kinds of stuff.

00:09:29   No games allowed, whatever that is.

00:09:30   But the part that I think it's sort of frustrating when you do stop-- and this is an old person,

00:09:36   it's a problem to an old person.

00:09:39   You can look at that any way you want.

00:09:40   A computer is personal, right?

00:09:44   This is a very like Syracuse idea of like, I want my windows to do this and stop changing

00:09:49   that.

00:09:50   And you know, it's like you say with your keys, like, I never opened my silverware drawer

00:09:54   and find an ad for Viagra.

00:09:56   Like there's certain kinds of things where like-- or like I like that my smoke alarm

00:10:00   doesn't just go off or announce that like they got a good deal on crypto.

00:10:05   There's certain kinds of things where the benefit of it is that I never have to worry

00:10:12   that it has become something else when I looked away.

00:10:15   And it's that feeling of like, this feels less and less like my thing because you keep

00:10:20   like some kind of hectoring nanny.

00:10:22   You're constantly correcting me about how you want me to use this.

00:10:26   And there are benefits from that and security from that in some cases.

00:10:30   But in other cases, it becomes wildly, wildly frustrating, especially if you get, you know,

00:10:35   kind of ungraceful silent fails that don't have any troubleshooting.

00:10:38   Yeah.

00:10:39   Where I was going with the key thing is if I woke up and one of my two keys was new,

00:10:43   it was like new and shiny, like let's say my house key, right?

00:10:46   And all of a sudden, my Schlage, instead of being, you know, five, six years old and having

00:10:52   that sort of patina of an older key, it was a brand new shiny brass key.

00:10:58   I would be freaked out, right?

00:11:00   I'd be like, that's not my key.

00:11:01   What the hell happened?

00:11:03   And then if I went down and we had new locks on our doors, and maybe, you know, if I fished

00:11:09   through our physical mail, there'd be like a note that says, hey, we upgraded the locks

00:11:13   on your door to an improved security.

00:11:16   And the release notes are like, we're releasing regularly to get you up to the latest features.

00:11:20   And we've squashed some bugs and like, you know what?

00:11:24   It'll be like Greg writing notes for drafts.

00:11:27   Like really, can you tell me what actually happened instead of just going, we're improving

00:11:31   your GrubHub experience?

00:11:32   Like my GrubHub experience is like, is typically quite excruciating.

00:11:38   And like, you know, there's that update day where like whatever runs, whatever the chrome

00:11:42   of restaurant delivery services, and you see like nine updates from all of the apps in

00:11:46   one day, squashing bugs, it's excruciating.

00:11:51   But I, people would rightly freak the hell out if, without ever having agreed to it,

00:11:57   there was some kind of like door lock service that just replaced the locks on your house's

00:12:02   doors, and went into your pocket and like gave you the new key.

00:12:06   Like, people would rightly freak out.

00:12:09   Whereas maybe, hey, at least ask me if I would like this service, you know, and then let

00:12:14   me know.

00:12:15   But maybe I would opt into it at a level where you have to ring, you know, ding dong, ring

00:12:19   the doorbell, I'm here to change the locks.

00:12:21   It's...

00:12:22   And also because like, I mean, I don't, again, I don't want to pitch too much.

00:12:26   We had talked about, I think maybe talking a little bit about stuff people might be missing

00:12:30   that's really cool in the Apple world.

00:12:32   Like I have a few things I'm always sort of recommending to people that I've captured here

00:12:37   in your document.

00:12:38   But it's, it is beneficial to get updates that keep security and all that kind of stuff.

00:12:43   But if you've done virtually anything to improve the way things interact with each other, which

00:12:49   is in a lot of ways what we use these dumb things for, you know, your scripts break or,

00:12:54   you know, something I, I'm sorry, I'm going to say this, I, and I'll mention this later,

00:12:59   I love doing shortcuts via HomePod.

00:13:01   But for the second time, like in maybe this quarter, shortcuts have utterly shat the bed

00:13:09   on HomePod.

00:13:10   And all my, all my HomePod shortcuts that I made stopped working, which is all fine

00:13:14   because it just means I watch Hulu slower.

00:13:17   But what if you have an actual business where you've built shortcuts to run in that way?

00:13:23   What if you like the things that Tim said on stage and he did in a given June and you

00:13:28   said, I'd love to do that.

00:13:29   So, well, it'd be available in fall.

00:13:31   And then when it is available, like it might just, it might just poop itself egregiously

00:13:37   in the food court.

00:13:38   And then you tell your boss, you know, it's okay.

00:13:42   It's computers, you know, they're helping us.

00:13:44   It's not that personal.

00:13:45   It's an impersonal computer now.

00:13:46   Oh man.

00:13:47   All right.

00:13:48   Let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor.

00:13:51   Why not?

00:13:52   Right.

00:13:53   Tell me about something you like.

00:13:54   What's going on?

00:13:55   What do you got there?

00:13:56   Let me start by telling you about Linode.

00:13:59   Linode?

00:14:00   Oh, you guys know Linode?

00:14:01   You know Linode.

00:14:02   Linode?

00:14:03   Is it Linode?

00:14:04   No, no, no, no.

00:14:05   It's Linus Torvalds.

00:14:08   I think so.

00:14:09   It really should be Lean.

00:14:10   I don't want to be a dick about it, literally, but I think it probably should be Linode.

00:14:14   But, you know, they got plans to start it.

00:14:16   Like what if it started at like $5 a week?

00:14:18   Oh my God.

00:14:19   Yeah.

00:14:20   It's crazy.

00:14:21   Visit linode.com/thetalkshow and see why Linode has been voted the top infrastructure as a

00:14:26   service provider by both G2 and TrustRadius.

00:14:29   Look, I don't know who G2 or TrustRadius are, honestly.

00:14:34   Let me tell you this.

00:14:35   I host Daring Fireball at Linode, not because they sponsor.

00:14:38   I've been hosting there for years now before they ever sponsored because they're just...

00:14:43   It's just rock solid web hosting.

00:14:46   It's just tremendous.

00:14:47   They have award-winning support offered 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a

00:14:54   year to every level of user, including, you know, you get like the...

00:14:59   I think they call it the nano plan.

00:15:00   I think that's what you were talking about.

00:15:01   It's like five bucks a month and you need help, you get help.

00:15:05   You don't have to be like a big spender with a big quote unquote enterprise plan.

00:15:10   Get the basic plan.

00:15:11   You still get the great tech support and it is so easy to use.

00:15:14   They have a great web interface to all of their services.

00:15:19   It is why developers have been trusting Linode for projects, both big and small, since 2000

00:15:24   and three.

00:15:25   You can deploy your entire application stack with their one click app marketplace.

00:15:30   So if you need to install blah, blah, blah, you just go through.

00:15:34   There it is.

00:15:35   You say install this.

00:15:36   There it is.

00:15:37   You get it right through the web interface or you can build it all from scratch and manage

00:15:40   everything yourself with all the Unix nerdy goodness that you'd expect.

00:15:46   They offer the best price to performance value for all compute instances, including GPUs,

00:15:51   as well as block storage, Kubernetes, and their upcoming bare metal release.

00:15:56   You're just saying words now.

00:15:59   It looks like these all.

00:16:01   What are they win the vote for?

00:16:04   Trust Fund and Brand Buster?

00:16:05   Yeah, Trust Fund, Brand Buster, G2, Trust Radius.

00:16:10   Anyway, they make Cloud computing fast, simple, and affordable.

00:16:14   Go to linode.com/thetalkshow and create a free account with your Google or GitHub account.

00:16:24   Or you could just use your email address.

00:16:25   And when you do it by going through that URL, you get $100 in credit.

00:16:29   100 bucks.

00:16:31   Hey, you know that ain't jump change.

00:16:33   That's a lot of money.

00:16:34   You know they're headquartered right here in Philadelphia.

00:16:36   I did not know that.

00:16:37   Are they part of cable toe?

00:16:38   Nope, nothing.

00:16:39   Well, not yet.

00:16:40   Oh, well, give them time.

00:16:41   Give them time.

00:16:42   Give them time.

00:16:44   But right now they're independent.

00:16:46   And their headquarters--

00:16:47   Television and microwave oven program.

00:16:52   I have yet to visit them.

00:16:53   They're very nice.

00:16:54   There's a couple of people there who I probably listen to the show.

00:16:57   John, John, a bunch of the things that I listen to, I happen to know are hosted on Linode.

00:17:02   Things like the incomparable.

00:17:03   There are people like our buddy Jason Stell.

00:17:05   They run their whole operation on Linode.

00:17:08   But their headquarters--

00:17:09   Get on Linode.

00:17:10   Their headquarters are in a section of Philadelphia that we call Old City, which is like lots of

00:17:17   stuff in Philadelphia.

00:17:18   Is that where Mac buys his cool sleeveless t-shirts?

00:17:22   Quite possibly.

00:17:23   Quite probably would be where Mac would buy his sleeveless t-shirts.

00:17:27   It is the old part of the city.

00:17:30   Guess where South Philly is?

00:17:32   It's south.

00:17:33   That's it.

00:17:34   And then--

00:17:35   You guys keep it real straightforward there, don't you?

00:17:37   Yeah, we just keep it real simple.

00:17:39   And who's you're not allowed to be taller than?

00:17:40   Is it William Penn, Ben Franklin?

00:17:41   Who are you not allowed to be taller than?

00:17:43   William Penn.

00:17:44   But they got rid of that in the '80s.

00:17:46   That's why we have real skyscrapers now.

00:17:48   But until, I'm going to say 1984, the city hall has a statue of William Penn atop.

00:17:56   And that was supposedly-- you couldn't build anything taller than William Penn's hat.

00:18:01   As long as Mike Schmidt's alive, you're not allowed to build anything taller.

00:18:04   That was the rule.

00:18:05   Right.

00:18:06   So what's called action, John?

00:18:07   Where are people supposed to go to get on the Linode?

00:18:09   Linode.com/the-talk-show.

00:18:10   There you go.

00:18:11   They got the article in there, which is nice.

00:18:14   Yeah.

00:18:15   Hey, oh, I always appreciate that.

00:18:16   I don't like to mention it too much anymore because I don't want to--

00:18:19   Well, you mention it when people don't.

00:18:20   And I think that's entirely reasonable.

00:18:21   They're just letters.

00:18:22   They don't cost anything.

00:18:23   Do you get a lot of printed catalogs mailed to your house?

00:18:30   Oh, John.

00:18:31   Oh, my god, John.

00:18:33   Yes, yes.

00:18:35   It makes our little sack that catches our mail groan.

00:18:39   And I don't-- first of all, we're liberal suckers.

00:18:42   So we get-- the ACLU, you guys, I love you, but it's a bridge too far.

00:18:48   It needs to stop.

00:18:49   The calls need to stop.

00:18:51   It's like--

00:18:52   Southern Poverty Law Center.

00:18:54   Well, but like, I mean, no shame no lemonade.

00:18:57   But hand to god, the ACLU has become like letting me know my car warranty is expiring.

00:19:04   It's bad.

00:19:05   And then I think I'm on some kind of podcast advertising sucker list.

00:19:09   Oh, that's me.

00:19:10   Yes.

00:19:11   Have you gotten bundle?

00:19:12   B-U-N-D-L?

00:19:13   No, I haven't gotten that one yet.

00:19:14   No, I don't think so.

00:19:15   Oh, it's like the Casper mattress, the blankets.

00:19:18   The blanket startup, John.

00:19:20   I don't know how that's even possible, but it is remarkable how many of the catalogs

00:19:25   I get.

00:19:26   You can easily tell which ones are meant for Amy.

00:19:28   Don't be sick of using a spoon that's not right for you.

00:19:32   Try Spooner.

00:19:34   That's S-P-U-N-R.

00:19:35   I don't know.

00:19:37   You know, there must be 700 companies that are vaguely competitive with, let's say,

00:19:44   like Athleada or Lululemon, you know, sort of women's--

00:19:49   Athleisure.

00:19:50   Athleisure, right.

00:19:51   And, you know, Amy has, you know, a lot of those type of pants and--

00:19:59   She works out a lot, right?

00:20:00   Oh, yeah.

00:20:01   She works out like a mofo.

00:20:02   No, she does not run, but she does the--

00:20:05   Does she lift?

00:20:06   Oh, she lifts.

00:20:07   She benches.

00:20:08   Oh, I don't know.

00:20:09   Yeah, like 300 pounds.

00:20:10   She'd bench you.

00:20:11   Oh, yeah, easily.

00:20:12   Yeah, easy.

00:20:13   If we arm wrestled, she would just snap my arm right off.

00:20:15   I wouldn't even get involved in that.

00:20:17   No, I wouldn't.

00:20:18   It is weird, though, because, I mean, obviously there must be--seemingly, obviously, there

00:20:22   must be the kind of thing we always imagine, which is like you're on a list.

00:20:25   Like yeah, I mean, like I want to give St. Jude's all the money, but like somewhere

00:20:29   I think my name fell off the back of a truck.

00:20:34   And now we get so much personal email from President Biden and Vice President Harris,

00:20:38   and I literally, I run up the stairs so my wife can hear me coming, and I run in screaming,

00:20:43   and I say, "Stop what you're doing.

00:20:45   You just got a personal note from President Biden."

00:20:48   So you might want to just really, you know, time block some time to really get in there.

00:20:54   It is--my job in the house is the person who scoops up all the mail when it comes in.

00:21:00   Yeah, me too.

00:21:01   It's the--because it's the least I could do, right?

00:21:02   I mean, it's--

00:21:03   Literally, yeah.

00:21:04   Of all the little chores that somebody has to be responsible for, I--

00:21:08   You're coming up anyway!

00:21:10   It's minimal effort.

00:21:11   I'm the greedy bastard who picks all of the easiest ones, right?

00:21:14   Like oh, you know what else I do?

00:21:15   I take the garbage out.

00:21:17   Guess what's easy?

00:21:18   You know what's really easy?

00:21:19   Taking the garbage out on Sunday night.

00:21:21   It's--

00:21:22   You know where it goes, and it--

00:21:23   And I know where it is.

00:21:25   It's in our--we have a garage.

00:21:26   That's where it is.

00:21:27   It's already been wrapped up and deposited throughout the week.

00:21:30   It takes ten minutes, and you go out there and--but, you know, it--that way nobody else

00:21:34   has to worry about it.

00:21:35   But anyway, I scoop up all the junk.

00:21:36   I'm the garbage czar for our entire building.

00:21:39   I do--I'm the garbage czar for all garbage in the building, and I--when new tenants move

00:21:42   in in the other flat, I will tell them, "Just so you know, oh hi, nice to meet you.

00:21:47   Please don't smoke inside."

00:21:49   And I am the garbage czar, so I know which order the cans go in.

00:21:53   I know--I know which way the lids should go.

00:21:55   If they're in a different order, the czar ain't happy.

00:21:58   I love that job.

00:21:59   I treasure it.

00:22:00   And it's right--it's really right about at my pay grade, you know.

00:22:03   So--so there--there is no threat that Amy is gonna take over the job.

00:22:09   She doesn't want to, but she does get angry at me because what I will do is we'll get

00:22:14   twenty catalogs, and I think to myself, these--a lot of them are exquisitely well printed.

00:22:20   Some of the, you know, like--

00:22:21   Yeah.

00:22:22   --the clothing catalogs and, you know--

00:22:23   Yeah.

00:22:24   --like a nice--yeah, yeah, yeah, but like with a full bleed on really nice--not even

00:22:27   paper, almost like cardboard.

00:22:28   Yep, yep.

00:22:29   And then you gotta pay for the little tapey--tapey circles that like keep it closed and you open

00:22:34   it up and it's like a blanket startup, man.

00:22:37   Uh--

00:22:38   The, uh--I love their stuff.

00:22:40   They're not a sponsor.

00:22:41   I don't think they've ever sponsored the show, but American Giant.

00:22:44   They're the company that somehow famously, like ten years ago, Farhad Manju wrote an

00:22:48   article for Slate that was like the greatest hood he ever made.

00:22:52   Like, oh, that was--yes!

00:22:53   Yeah.

00:22:54   I think they might be based here because it was--they were constantly talking about--and

00:22:58   I got that ad, like a Taboodle ad all the time about how this was the, uh--this is the

00:23:03   hoodie nobody can keep in stock.

00:23:05   And it--once this article went off--and they're--they are made in America, you know, it's--they

00:23:11   are high--I love their stuff.

00:23:12   Yeah, they're based in San Francisco, yeah.

00:23:14   But once this article took off, they--their hoodie that the article was about was backordered

00:23:19   for like eight months because there was--and there was like nothing they could do about

00:23:22   it.

00:23:23   They're like, we're making a--

00:23:24   Sort of like you did with the Mack Weldon slippers.

00:23:25   Yeah.

00:23:26   You almost put them out of business.

00:23:27   Yeah.

00:23:28   Well, hold that thought.

00:23:29   Guess who's sponsoring this show?

00:23:30   Oh boy.

00:23:31   Oh boy.

00:23:32   Oh, we're gonna clean their clock today.

00:23:33   Let's pick something real, real obscure that they probably don't have much.

00:23:37   But the, uh--the American Giant, they--now, I've ordered their products.

00:23:40   I love their products.

00:23:41   Are you familiar with the YKK zipper company?

00:23:44   Yes.

00:23:45   That's how you know it's well made.

00:23:47   Right?

00:23:48   So the Y--

00:23:49   I'm not gonna learn this from you, but it's my understanding that if you see a YKK zipper

00:23:53   in front of your business, if you--if you've got a YKK front in your junk, you know that's

00:23:57   a well-made garment.

00:23:58   John, here's the thing about a zipper.

00:24:00   A zipper is the kind of thing you don't think about until it's not working the way you expected.

00:24:03   Exactly.

00:24:04   Right?

00:24:05   It's like--it's like furniture in your life, but like a zipper has a sort of--I want to

00:24:09   say I'm--I don't read the trades.

00:24:11   I want to say like a locking mechanism, like on your fly, right?

00:24:15   Where like it'll kind of lock a little bit.

00:24:17   Yeah.

00:24:18   And you realize a good zipper does that until it don't.

00:24:21   And then all of a sudden, you know, you're in--you're all together, you know, with your

00:24:25   Y2K in your hand.

00:24:26   And a good zipper will take care of that for you, and you shouldn't have to think about

00:24:30   it.

00:24:31   And I'm just--I sent you a photo just now.

00:24:33   Yes.

00:24:34   Tom Bihn, maker of I think the best backpacks, totally uses a heavy duty Y2K zipper.

00:24:40   YYK, YYZ.

00:24:41   Look at that.

00:24:42   Look at that photo.

00:24:43   Isn't that a beautiful zipper?

00:24:44   Oh, I'll put that right in the show notes.

00:24:45   Okay, thanks.

00:24:46   Usually it's just for tabs.

00:24:49   Usually it's just for tabs.

00:24:50   But if you--I'm telling you, and I'm telling you, if you've never heard of this company,

00:24:54   and you'll think--this is what I thought when I learned about this, because I only learned

00:24:56   about this company, I don't know, five, six years ago.

00:25:01   But it's like that usual suspects denouement, you know, where it's like all of a sudden,

00:25:07   you know, they're like, "Oh, it was, you know, it was--that guy was always Kaiser Sose."

00:25:11   You know?

00:25:12   Zipper Sose all along.

00:25:13   Right.

00:25:14   And it's like, you know what?

00:25:15   I have noticed YKK on a bunch of zippers.

00:25:18   You don't think about it.

00:25:19   You don't think about it.

00:25:20   Yeah.

00:25:21   But it's always been in the back of my head that I've seen it, and I didn't even know

00:25:24   if it was a brand name.

00:25:26   I didn't know if it was like a--maybe like an ISO technical standard, right?

00:25:29   Like--

00:25:30   It's not like a size or something, you know?

00:25:32   I don't know.

00:25:33   I don't--yeah.

00:25:34   Right.

00:25:35   Like, you know, like--

00:25:36   But like, it's--you learn these tricks in life, and god, we gotta talk about something

00:25:38   else.

00:25:39   The--you learn this in life where like there's tricks.

00:25:42   Like, for example--and I'm just--I'm pulling these out of my ass, but like the YKK zipper

00:25:46   is an extremely good one.

00:25:47   Another one is like when you get a necktie.

00:25:50   I think I made Ben Thompson really mad twice.

00:25:53   One time I made fun of guys who were photographed in neckties, and he got so fucking mad at

00:25:57   me.

00:25:58   And then another time I did literally make fun of the word "enterprise," and he got mad

00:26:00   at me about that too.

00:26:01   Hey, Ben.

00:26:02   Um, the, um--but--but--neckties.

00:26:03   You know the thing about the number of threads?

00:26:06   You count the number of threads, and that's like how well it's made?

00:26:09   You can think about, for example, does this jacket have lining?

00:26:13   Or do these gloves have lining?

00:26:15   There's all these things that let you know how much care went into that.

00:26:19   And if you're an idiot like me, and you mostly just buy clothes on the internet, you

00:26:24   have to go somewhere.

00:26:25   It's nice to know that this one's probably nicer than that one, and you can tell by the

00:26:28   way the seam is done.

00:26:30   Or you can tell the quality of the extra buttons at the bottom.

00:26:34   I think the people in the know--if this was the 40s, Jon, we would know this stuff inside

00:26:38   out.

00:26:39   No, there's definitely something--you know, there's certain things where you--I'm never

00:26:45   gonna know the difference between a truly great men's suit and just a good men's suit.

00:26:52   Like I don't wear suits, I don't have an eye for fashion.

00:26:56   But you know, you can kind of learn with a couple of tips that you can keep memorized,

00:27:01   you can kind of know the difference between a truly ill-fitting man's suit, like the kind

00:27:07   our former president typically wears.

00:27:09   Like you--

00:27:10   Well, those pants were pretty big, weren't they?

00:27:12   What is--jackets?

00:27:13   They were like jenko jeans.

00:27:15   I mean, you get that photo of him and the North Korean fella, and they're both wearing

00:27:18   their stovepipe pants.

00:27:19   It's a hell of a look.

00:27:21   What's he got in there?

00:27:23   You know--

00:27:24   I thought it was fruit.

00:27:26   You know, but--

00:27:28   Yes, but you can tell.

00:27:29   I watched the second X-Men--or sorry, X-Men First Class, which is one of my favorites.

00:27:33   Oh, that is a good movie.

00:27:34   I think I might have a little bit of a thing for Michael Fassbender.

00:27:37   You know, I love him in Inglourious Basterds.

00:27:40   I love him in all those things.

00:27:42   He's wearing this--when he goes to see the guy in Switzerland, the guy with the fellings,

00:27:46   remember, he's wearing like a suit, and he's got like an overcoat, and he has so many suits,

00:27:49   and he's got a waistcoat, and I'm like, "God, and you're shaped like a narrow--you're shaped

00:27:55   like a inconsolata condensed letter V. You're exquisite.

00:28:01   Your entire body makes sense."

00:28:03   Now, I don't know if that's the suit of the Fassbender, but you do notice.

00:28:06   You notice when somebody wears something that looks--that's like what my friend used to

00:28:10   Chris--my friend Chris used to call the appearance in court suit, or the appearance in court

00:28:14   shirt.

00:28:16   Like something somebody got you out of lost and found so that you could meet the dress

00:28:19   code.

00:28:20   Well, they are like--if you--I know that these sort of establishments are a vanishing breed,

00:28:28   but if you enter an establishment with a requirement that men need to be wearing a jacket, sometimes

00:28:34   they'll have--

00:28:35   In New York City, there's like--you know, people dress so much more formally there.

00:28:39   You know what I mean?

00:28:40   People just wear suits all the time.

00:28:41   At least they used to in Manhattan.

00:28:42   Yeah, and I think they would give you a loaner jacket, which is really upsetting.

00:28:51   And depending on your circumstances, it might be--if it were just me and you, and we were

00:28:56   out and we went to, let's say, Let's Go Eat Here, and they came in and they said--

00:29:01   Yeah, go to House Primary.

00:29:02   Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they said, "We've instituted a policy.

00:29:04   You need to have a coat."

00:29:06   We would probably just look at each other and say, "Well, you know, we'll--noted for

00:29:09   the next time, but we'll just go somewhere else," right?

00:29:12   But if, let's say--

00:29:13   You're the jack-in-the-box.

00:29:14   But like, you know, if there's like a whole party who's already there, and you don't want

00:29:17   to be left out, and you're the only jerk who didn't have one, you'll just put their loaner

00:29:21   jacket on.

00:29:22   And otherwise, it's probably going to be a roomy fit, because, you know, a smaller man

00:29:27   can fit in a large jacket, whereas a larger man cannot fit in a smaller jacket.

00:29:32   So I do tend to think that the loaners, you know, tend to err on the side of roominess.

00:29:36   Right, you're going to get like a 44 wide.

00:29:41   Is that a size?

00:29:42   I don't know.

00:29:43   Yeah.

00:29:44   Have you ever been--when's the last time you were at a place where you ran into that sort

00:29:48   of rigmarole?

00:29:49   I mean, there are--this being San Francisco, and this being the pandemic era, I mean, you

00:29:58   know, we don't go out over much.

00:30:00   But when you do go almost anywhere in San Francisco, it's pretty cash.

00:30:03   Not least, I think, because of, you know, tourists.

00:30:05   Like those goddamn Germans, I feel so bad for them.

00:30:08   They come here in the summer, and they wear their short pants, their short nose, and I

00:30:12   feel so bad for them, because they have no idea that it's going to be 50 degrees every

00:30:15   day.

00:30:16   And--but I think it's pretty casual.

00:30:18   I'm trying to think of situations--I have to tell you, John, I've been to a few--I've

00:30:22   been to a fair number of really quite good restaurants in terms of cuisine.

00:30:27   I have not been to that many places where you really feel like--there's a place in Tampa,

00:30:32   I think I've talked to you about this place, I feel like I've talked to everybody.

00:30:35   Tampa, Florida, there's a place called Burns Steakhouse.

00:30:38   I don't think you have talked to me about this, but--

00:30:40   Oh my god, you've got to look this place up.

00:30:42   Run by a guy--actually, I went to Brady's Bits.

00:30:44   I went to military school with his son.

00:30:47   The guy's name is Burn Laxer, and I think he might have passed.

00:30:49   How do you spell "Burn"?

00:30:51   B-E-R-N.

00:30:52   B-E-R-N.

00:30:53   So not a Mr. Burn, it's a--

00:30:55   No.

00:30:56   But you--but this place--and I mean, I could just go on about this place.

00:31:01   They have their own organic farm, all of their seafood is live on-premises till they make

00:31:07   it.

00:31:08   They have--you can get a tour of their wine cellar, which is really--doesn't do justice.

00:31:12   But you'd go look up Burns B-E-R-N.

00:31:14   That's the place where you go in, and it really does have the whole flocked wallpaper sort

00:31:19   of--this looks, I don't know, like a sex worker place from Deadwood?

00:31:23   It's really pretty epic.

00:31:26   You expect Clementine to come up and say, "So much for a rind on you?"

00:31:31   All right, this is something too.

00:31:33   I know--

00:31:34   That's the kind of place where you've got to wear a jacket.

00:31:35   You've got to wear a jacket.

00:31:37   You're like me, I know you are, where you will peruse--I will peruse the in-flight--

00:31:43   What do you mean, for like the top ten steakhouse?

00:31:47   Yes, right!

00:31:48   And there's--

00:31:49   That and the plastic surgeons!

00:31:51   I always look forward to that.

00:31:52   They don't even put SkyMall in the pocket anymore!

00:31:55   They got the plastic surgeons, they got the orthodontia, right?

00:31:58   Lawyers, I think lawyers.

00:32:00   Lawyers are a big one.

00:32:02   And then there's always like a feature article, "The Top Ten Steakhouses in America."

00:32:07   And number one, you know I love a steakhouse.

00:32:10   And number two, I just love--it's bananas to me that it's one magazine that they print

00:32:18   thousands of copies of, put it in every single, you know, whether it's United's or American,

00:32:23   whatever, you know, every single American Airlines flight has this exact same magazine.

00:32:29   But they've got ten steakhouses from ten random cities around North America.

00:32:35   What percentage of people ever even go--like, what percentage of Americans have ever or

00:32:41   will ever go to Tampa, Florida?

00:32:43   Not me, I've been there.

00:32:44   I actually have been to Tampa.

00:32:45   I had to, yeah.

00:32:46   It's a lovely place.

00:32:47   It's, you know, it's--yeah, but like, the steak stuff is--obviously those are paid placements

00:32:53   and that's all fine.

00:32:54   Ditto for the surgeons.

00:32:55   But you're like, you're sitting there and you're like, "Oh, you know, we're gonna land

00:32:58   soon, I guess I'll--" I would always look at the SkyMall or the in-flight magazine like

00:33:02   kind of like after they made the announcement that we're going in, that is, by the way,

00:33:06   also the only appropriate time to talk to someone in the next seat.

00:33:09   You must be silent until then, because now at this point, you know, like, neither of

00:33:13   us is a lunatic and we have ten minutes till we land.

00:33:16   But I just imagine somebody like flipping through there and being like, "Huh, I've been

00:33:20   thinking about rhinoplasty."

00:33:22   And there is a photo of a guy with a stethoscope here.

00:33:25   He's in Boca Raton, Florida.

00:33:27   I should check him out.

00:33:29   He's one of the top ten, huh?

00:33:32   That's wild.

00:33:33   Right, I'm--

00:33:34   Do you ever wonder if J.D. Power's a jam-up?

00:33:36   I feel like it might be a jam-up.

00:33:37   You know, not to speak ill of J.D. Power, but when they talk about those awards, do

00:33:42   you ever wonder if that's one of those like, uh, like, uh, like, um, who has the list?

00:33:47   They just pivoted.

00:33:48   Uh, Annie's list or the list?

00:33:51   Angie's list.

00:33:52   Yeah, Angie's list.

00:33:53   Or Yelp.

00:33:54   You ever wonder if the J.D. Power thing, if maybe your Buick might not be as good as J.D.

00:33:58   Power says it is?

00:33:59   Does it feel like a paid placement a little bit?

00:34:01   Like getting a Webby or something?

00:34:03   Yeah, I always thought Zagat's was sort of fishy.

00:34:07   Yeah, but it's rustic and homespun.

00:34:10   Yeah.

00:34:11   But, you know, word of mouth is best.

00:34:13   John, I'll put this in your document, but you gotta go look, even just look at the splashy

00:34:19   image on, uh, on Burn Steakhouse.

00:34:21   Don't you want to eat there?

00:34:22   Look how red it is.

00:34:23   Oh, man, that's, that's nice.

00:34:24   Look at that.

00:34:25   Oh, they have a section called "What to Expect."

00:34:29   Oh, my God.

00:34:31   Yes, and they, yes, okay, sorry, sorry.

00:34:33   Can I request a favorite server?

00:34:35   Are pictures allowed?

00:34:36   What can be done?

00:34:37   What is the corckage fee?

00:34:38   Can I request a favorite server?

00:34:39   It says here all Burn servers are highly trained and very competent.

00:34:42   However, if you have a favorite, oh, another thing, they have a steak menu that's chained

00:34:46   to the table.

00:34:47   Their menus are chained to the table.

00:34:49   They have a tome.

00:34:50   It looks like a Tibetan Book of the Dead, but for steer.

00:34:53   And, and, you know, you go and then, oh, and they do, oh, John, can we talk about Caesar

00:34:58   salads?

00:34:59   You know, the lie that we're living with the Arby's version of a Caesar salad is a goddamn

00:35:03   shame.

00:35:04   A very, a very tall man who looks like he maybe used to be in musical theater comes

00:35:08   up, he's dressed like a performing monkey, and he comes up and he makes you a Caesar-ass

00:35:13   salad right at your table.

00:35:14   He does the whole nine.

00:35:16   It's, it's, oh, it's, we gotta, you know what?

00:35:18   We gotta do this.

00:35:19   We should Patreon this.

00:35:20   I, I, you know, I love a steakhouse and my, my steakhouse, if I, if I were, if I were

00:35:27   rich on the side, if I had hit it rich, if I had, let's say, put all my money into Bitcoin

00:35:34   10 years ago, and now I was a tech or a crypto gazillionaire, I would love, I would love

00:35:43   to hang it up and just start my own steakhouse and not even if I could just run it at break-even.

00:35:49   That's a terrible question.

00:35:51   It's the hardest thing in the world to run a restaurant.

00:35:54   Oh, I know.

00:35:55   But you know what makes it?

00:35:56   What makes it really hard?

00:35:57   Yeah, a passion project for you.

00:35:58   Well, what, I think what makes it really hard is staying in business.

00:36:02   Right?

00:36:03   If, let's say, if I were, if I were a hundred million dollars cushioned to sit on and I

00:36:09   could run a restaurant and, you know, let's say I lost a million dollars a year.

00:36:13   Well, I could, I could easily, you know, I could, you know, I don't have to.

00:36:17   Oh, okay.

00:36:18   So sort of like the way, there's a place in town, I think it's called Club DNA or DNA

00:36:22   Lounge.

00:36:23   Yeah, yeah.

00:36:24   And it's root, yeah, that guy who, he's still got a live journal.

00:36:25   He's the guy who used to be at Netscape and then he just started a cool club.

00:36:29   And he like gives people a break and stuff.

00:36:31   Or, or like you hear about with Robin Williams, RIP, but like he and his wife would like,

00:36:36   they never, just wasn't like widely publicly known, they certainly didn't promote it, but

00:36:41   Robin Williams and his wife would be, wife, they'd come in and go like, "Oh, you know,

00:36:44   our St. Jude's thing, we'd love to have it there."

00:36:46   And they'd be like, "Yeah, we'll take care of that.

00:36:47   Just, just come on in."

00:36:48   You could do that.

00:36:49   That could be you, but for Philadelphia.

00:36:50   Right.

00:36:51   And it would be a steakhouse.

00:36:52   Yeah, that's exactly the DNA Lounge.

00:36:54   The DNA Lounge that Jamie, and he of course is...

00:36:57   He's a text files guy, right?

00:37:00   No, no, no, he's not the text files guy.

00:37:03   It's a great club.

00:37:04   I was there for the, I was there with Matt Howey for the release of Mozilla 1.0.

00:37:08   He's, he's the guy though, Jamie Z is the guy whose gravestone will have the quote, something...

00:37:14   Oh, regular expressions, right?

00:37:16   Regular expressions, where there are some people when faced with a particular problem,

00:37:20   will say, "I know what to do, I'll use regular expressions."

00:37:24   Now you have two problems.

00:37:25   Now you have two problems.

00:37:26   Now you have two problems.

00:37:27   So good.

00:37:28   It'll be it.

00:37:29   You should, you should do that.

00:37:30   Would you call it Daring Fireball?

00:37:31   No, no.

00:37:32   Would Amy, would Amy Jane be involved at all?

00:37:34   Oh, of course.

00:37:35   She probably, she really wouldn't go near it.

00:37:36   Oh, no.

00:37:37   She could just be in, she could be the hostess.

00:37:38   Yes.

00:37:39   Like, no, no, no, but like a hostess as in like, you know, like Tandy Newton again in

00:37:44   Westworld.

00:37:45   Oh, I see.

00:37:46   She could be dressed up in some kind of like Diamond Horseshoe Revue outfit.

00:37:49   Yeah.

00:37:50   And entertain people in the lounge.

00:37:51   Oh.

00:37:52   Hello, gentlemen!

00:37:53   Yeah, she'd be the, she'd run the front of the house and then anybody.

00:37:55   Oh, that's so good.

00:37:56   Makes sure every regular always gets in and...

00:37:59   But don't, do not cross her.

00:38:00   She is a leader.

00:38:01   Do not cross her, right.

00:38:02   And then if you're on her good side, you could come in without a reservation, even, you know,

00:38:06   Saturday night you come in without a reservation.

00:38:08   But if she knows you, she would spot you at the door.

00:38:11   You wouldn't even have to, before you could even awkwardly ask, "Hey..."

00:38:15   Oh, she knows.

00:38:16   "Hey, I'm a regular, I know I don't have a reservation."

00:38:19   She'd already...

00:38:20   And you could have an area where you store jackets that fit the regulars.

00:38:24   So they could come in from, not golf, that's bullshit, let's say they were out playing

00:38:27   cornhole and they decided they really wanted a tasty dairy fireball filet or a baseball

00:38:32   steak.

00:38:33   I've seen you eat a baseball steak.

00:38:34   Yeah.

00:38:35   Right?

00:38:36   What did you get that one time we went out with Rands?

00:38:38   You got something asinine.

00:38:39   Was it Wagyu or Kobe?

00:38:41   You got something that was very, very weird.

00:38:44   Oh.

00:38:45   I know.

00:38:46   Yeah.

00:38:47   Where was it?

00:38:48   Did you get like the rarest of the rare?

00:38:49   Yeah, I got the...

00:38:50   I don't know if it was actually Kobe, but it was definitely Japanese A5.

00:38:56   Which is really what you want.

00:38:58   Kobe is...

00:38:59   The word Kobe, if it literally is Kobe certified, that's good.

00:39:03   But it's not magic, it's just a word that people know.

00:39:06   And it actually isn't...

00:39:08   It should have a serial number.

00:39:09   I watch a lot of teppanyaki and steak videos because I'm broken inside and I know all about

00:39:13   the serial numbers.

00:39:14   I'm on the show you.

00:39:15   Yeah.

00:39:16   They put the...

00:39:17   There's actually a certificate with like a hoof print.

00:39:19   I swear to God.

00:39:20   I've gotten it.

00:39:21   I've already gotten the certificate.

00:39:22   With much respect, sir.

00:39:23   You are about to eat a steer with a, how you say, master's degree.

00:39:29   I actually don't like it because the hoof print sort of puts a...

00:39:33   Yes.

00:39:34   It brings out the...

00:39:35   Fool on the nose.

00:39:36   Oh no, that's what it is.

00:39:38   It's a nose print.

00:39:39   That's what it...

00:39:40   Because the hoof...

00:39:41   Yeah, it is the nose print.

00:39:42   You could call it on the nose.

00:39:43   It's a Daring Fireball joint.

00:39:45   But would you have a drink special is my question for you.

00:39:47   Now I know you like your fella with...

00:39:49   What do you have?

00:39:50   Coins in the bar?

00:39:51   Who's that guy?

00:39:52   What's that guy?

00:39:53   What's that called?

00:39:54   Lee?

00:39:55   Hopsing Laundromat and his name is...

00:39:56   Hopsing Laundromat.

00:39:57   Now would you have a drink special at Club Daring Fireball?

00:39:58   Oh, absolutely.

00:39:59   I would definitely pay Lee to make at least, let's say, three drinks, two or three cocktails.

00:40:06   One brown, one white, and one whatever Lee wants to make.

00:40:10   Actually, he wouldn't let me tell him that.

00:40:12   Just cut the guy loose and can I just say, I don't want to give you notes on your place.

00:40:16   This is your passion project.

00:40:17   But could we also do a thing where the bartender doesn't explain the drink to me?

00:40:20   Oh, absolutely.

00:40:21   That would be forbidden.

00:40:22   It's like I need a hand signal for Lyft drivers.

00:40:24   Like, look, seriously, we really don't need to have a conversation here, especially about

00:40:27   black people.

00:40:28   But also when I go to your bar, please don't explain how you make the ice.

00:40:31   And like it's so important to me that we not have a conversation.

00:40:35   Absolutely not.

00:40:36   Although on the flip side of that, now you and my...

00:40:40   We've eaten here many times to the House of Prime Rib in San Francisco, which is a fabulous

00:40:43   place.

00:40:44   And it's sort of the canonical ideal of a steakhouse in some ways.

00:40:50   But I remember one of the first times I was there with you and we had to wait a little

00:40:56   bit for a table.

00:40:57   So I went to the bar to get a martini and I was told...

00:41:01   I tend to go vodka martini.

00:41:06   But I was told here at this establishment, you should definitely go more traditional,

00:41:10   get a martini made with gin.

00:41:12   And avoiding the whole argument...

00:41:13   Get a Boodles or similar.

00:41:15   Yeah.

00:41:16   Avoid avoiding the whole religious argument that a true martini is only made with gin

00:41:20   and a vodka martini isn't even a martini, which I don't believe...

00:41:23   Yeah, I mean, saying vodka martini is like saying shrimp swimming pool.

00:41:28   That's not even a thing.

00:41:29   But whatever.

00:41:30   But you enjoy it.

00:41:31   You can order a Vesper.

00:41:32   I'll give it to you in a literal, like a pint glass with a lid that's actually two and a

00:41:38   half drinks.

00:41:40   Well, and also their martini glasses are my favorite in the world.

00:41:44   I don't know if they have like 10,000 of them still in storage.

00:41:48   Like how do they keep procuring them?

00:41:50   But you know exactly what I'm talking about where the stem is articulated.

00:41:56   It has like...

00:41:57   It's like an octagon shape instead of just being purely circular.

00:42:02   You're going to want that true grip system after you've had a couple of those.

00:42:06   Exactly.

00:42:07   It's the true grip system.

00:42:08   But I remember the first time I was there and you or Scott or somebody had told me...

00:42:13   Probably Simpson, yeah.

00:42:14   ...told me, "Don't get a vodka martini.

00:42:17   Get it with gin in."

00:42:18   And I said, "I would like a martini."

00:42:19   And he was like, "What type of gin would you like?"

00:42:20   And I don't even know what I told him.

00:42:22   I said, "Maybe let's just say..."

00:42:24   I said, "What's that one that's made with cucumber?"

00:42:26   I forget what it is.

00:42:27   I'm not sure.

00:42:28   I don't know that much about it.

00:42:30   I don't know.

00:42:31   I get Hendrix or a Boodles.

00:42:33   Oh, Hendrix.

00:42:34   But I think I said something else.

00:42:35   And he goes, "Oh, so you want a bad martini?"

00:42:37   Oh, whoa!

00:42:38   Whoa!

00:42:39   And I said, "How about this?

00:42:41   How about you pick?"

00:42:42   And he goes, "I like your style."

00:42:44   And then, you know, I don't even know what the hell he gave me.

00:42:46   It's the smartest thing you can say.

00:42:48   I don't care if we're talking about tacos, hand stuff, or martinis.

00:42:54   Just do the one you like.

00:42:56   And you will always mostly be happy.

00:42:59   That place is amazing.

00:43:01   It's just...

00:43:02   They were open a little bit for pickup during the pandemic, but I believe they are.

00:43:09   My wife knows how much I love that place, and it's kind of a special thing for us, our

00:43:12   family, too.

00:43:13   But they were booked...

00:43:14   At the time, she was trying to get a reservation for my late November birthday, which was probably

00:43:18   September.

00:43:19   They were, I think, booked through the end of the year.

00:43:22   That's crazy.

00:43:23   But that's great to know that they're thriving.

00:43:24   Well, can I tell you a very quick side story?

00:43:28   Oh, of course.

00:43:29   It's super quick.

00:43:30   Well...

00:43:31   And then I want to hear about something you like.

00:43:34   But House of Prime Rib is this place.

00:43:37   Some people would call it touristy, but it's just really fun, old school.

00:43:42   Their menu is comical.

00:43:44   The menu is basically how big a piece of prime rib do you want, and do you want corn or spinach.

00:43:50   And then they just bring you stuff, and they make a salad, and they spin it around, and

00:43:52   we all clap like we're at the fucking Olive Garden.

00:43:55   Anyway, that place is always so booked, and everybody loves House of Prime Rib.

00:44:00   There's a place, let's just say, in my neighborhood.

00:44:05   It's technically considered a pop-up.

00:44:07   But I think you're really stretching the definition of a pop-up.

00:44:10   My wife says a pop-up can be a place that's normally a restaurant, and it's just not there

00:44:15   permanently.

00:44:16   Three days a week, there's a place that opened not too far from here.

00:44:20   On Thursday, Friday and Saturday night, they basically do a House of Prime Rib style dinner.

00:44:28   They have only medium rare, they have only these sides, they have these ones, but you

00:44:32   show up, and for about a third of the price of House of Prime Rib, you get a roughly equivalent

00:44:38   Sunset District version of House of Prime Rib.

00:44:42   And it is the best.

00:44:43   Isn't that smart, though?

00:44:45   It's like there's that place in Chinatown called House of Nanking, which is a really

00:44:48   famous touristy Chinese place.

00:44:50   And the place is so popular that a place opened next to them that basically has the exact

00:44:55   same terrible-looking sign.

00:44:57   I'm saying you can benefit, and maybe you especially, with your new enterprise, maybe

00:45:02   you get parked next to some place really popular.

00:45:05   Or maybe not.

00:45:07   Maybe you're so picky about your readers, maybe you're the same way about your diners.

00:45:10   Maybe you want to vet them.

00:45:11   Do you have a feeling about that?

00:45:14   Do you want it to be exclusive?

00:45:15   No, not exclusive.

00:45:17   Yeah, exactly.

00:45:18   Y'all are welcome here?

00:45:20   But regulars get preference, and not because you're famous or anything like that.

00:45:27   You're just a regular person.

00:45:28   You're loyal.

00:45:29   You're very loyal.

00:45:30   And you're a good tipper.

00:45:31   And you're a polite person.

00:45:32   Oh, you've got to be a good tipper.

00:45:33   People don't tip enough, John.

00:45:34   Well, you know that's the number one way to get banned from opposing laundromat.

00:45:37   I mean, people...

00:45:38   Tell me more.

00:45:39   He doesn't have... he used to have the sneaker rule.

00:45:42   And again, that's sort of a dress code thing, right?

00:45:44   Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

00:45:45   But he had a thing for the first five years...

00:45:47   But it's also a way to filter out the snorks.

00:45:49   And it gives you a reason to say, "Hey, no golf cleats."

00:45:52   Yeah, no sneakers.

00:45:53   No sneakers.

00:45:54   And I'm pals with him.

00:45:56   And he would sometimes tell me, like, you know, there would be...

00:45:59   I won't drop any names, but there would be, like, professional athletes from Philadelphia

00:46:03   who would pop in late at night and were, you know, semi-regulars.

00:46:09   There were actually... for a stretch, there were a couple of the wives of the Philadelphia

00:46:14   Phillies who were regulars at HopSync.

00:46:19   But there was one time where one of the players showed up at, you know, like midnight.

00:46:22   You know, there's still two hours to go before last call, but he had sneakers and he wouldn't

00:46:26   let them in.

00:46:27   It was like no exceptions, even if you're, like, a Philadelphia Philly.

00:46:31   But he got rid of that rule on the fifth anniversary and said, "Okay, you know, this is untenable."

00:46:37   The world... he more or less admitted that sneakers are too common.

00:46:42   And maybe, you know, like with the... they're actually sponsoring Daring Fireball this week,

00:46:45   but like, Adams... there's sort of a...

00:46:48   Right.

00:46:49   Sneaker also, it's not as easy to eyeball...

00:46:51   Okay, so like, to paraphrase Raymond Carver, what we talk about when we talk about sneakers.

00:46:57   I mean, what are we talking about here?

00:46:58   Like obviously, you maybe don't want to wear your New Balance runners or your Keds, but

00:47:05   there are a lot of comfortable shoes that are not sneakers.

00:47:08   Like in school... see, they got around this in the manuals at my school where they would

00:47:11   say things about hard-soled shoes or this... you know what I mean?

00:47:14   They come up with all those kinds of things.

00:47:17   But do you think it's harmed the place?

00:47:18   Did the sneaker people get in now?

00:47:20   Yeah, they get in and it's not a problem, but...

00:47:22   Okay, cool.

00:47:24   But you still... like, no sandals.

00:47:26   So if you're a man in the summertime...

00:47:28   That should just be posted at the entrance to the United States.

00:47:33   You wear sandals in a room of your house, I can't get to.

00:47:35   That's the place you wear sandals.

00:47:37   If you wear those Adidas sandals, you should probably be indicted.

00:47:40   Nothing good has ever happened from a young man wearing Adidas shower sandals.

00:47:44   And most famously by Mark Zuckerberg, right?

00:47:48   That was all he wore for years and years.

00:47:51   That tells you all you need to know.

00:47:53   No shorts either.

00:47:54   You cannot get into hop singing with shorts.

00:47:57   But he's relaxed it.

00:47:58   But he does famously, and he has a wonderful Instagram account and Twitter account where

00:48:04   he posts this.

00:48:05   He keeps this database in an Excel spreadsheet of every single person who has ever been to

00:48:13   hop singing.

00:48:15   There is no way...

00:48:16   Oh, wow.

00:48:17   And people think it's pretentious.

00:48:18   It is weird, and it sounds like it's one of those crazy, fake, speakeasy places, right?

00:48:24   Like...

00:48:25   Oh, I hate those.

00:48:26   I know.

00:48:27   Or one of those guys who spies on you in a motel.

00:48:28   It's like, that's too many feet, man.

00:48:31   So there's a...

00:48:32   I don't know if they're still open.

00:48:33   Who knows?

00:48:34   There was a place in San Francisco, Bourbon and Branch.

00:48:37   Don't even...

00:48:38   Don't...

00:48:39   You mean with a password?

00:48:41   What's the password?

00:48:42   Library?

00:48:43   So Bourbon and Branch in San Francisco...

00:48:44   Did we go there together?

00:48:45   I think we might have.

00:48:46   I think we probably have been.

00:48:47   I know I went there with Simpson.

00:48:49   It's like a haunted house for unfuckable men in hats.

00:48:53   Yes, yes.

00:48:55   But the gimmick was, you had to knock on the door, they slide a thing open, and they go,

00:48:59   "What's the password?"

00:49:01   And if you don't know the password, they won't open the door.

00:49:03   But the password is just something you can Google.

00:49:05   I think it's library.

00:49:06   Yeah, I don't know.

00:49:08   But it seems like that type of place because Hapsing has a gate at the front door.

00:49:14   And on a Friday or Saturday night, there's almost always a line of people waiting to

00:49:19   go in.

00:49:20   And he'll only seat as many people as there are actual seats available.

00:49:25   So there's no...

00:49:28   If the demand were high enough, there is no way to get in and stand at the bar.

00:49:33   You can't.

00:49:34   But it's nice, though, that way because then everybody has a seat and the tables are actually

00:49:39   not...

00:49:41   Even pre-COVID, spaciously located so that you can have a conversation with the people

00:49:47   who you're with and you can actually hear them.

00:49:50   It's very, very nice.

00:49:51   Oh, yeah.

00:49:52   It's really wonderful.

00:49:53   I would love to go there someday.

00:49:55   But you do have to.

00:49:57   When it's your turn to come in, everybody in the party has to hand over their driver's

00:50:01   licenses.

00:50:04   It's usually him, but if it's not him, it's somebody else who works there.

00:50:08   And they take...

00:50:09   And he holds it for you or he inspects it?

00:50:11   No, he takes them inside.

00:50:12   He goes inside and then uses them as...

00:50:17   Looks you up in the database to see if you've ever been there before.

00:50:21   And logs it.

00:50:24   And that's how he keeps the banned list.

00:50:28   There are people who got banned...

00:50:29   It's like in a bodega where it says, "Don't take checks from this person."

00:50:33   Right, exactly.

00:50:34   Except he's got them in this Excel spreadsheet and he's posted screenshots of the spreadsheet.

00:50:39   Oh my God.

00:50:41   That's amazing.

00:50:43   But he will...

00:50:45   And if you leave a bad tip, he logs it and you come back.

00:50:50   And so...

00:50:51   Okay, now I'm coming around to this.

00:50:53   Okay, I see.

00:50:54   You're checked...

00:50:55   Maybe you tried to be a little bit of a jerk with the server or something.

00:51:00   Oh, absolutely.

00:51:01   You're out.

00:51:03   If he might come over and ask you to leave now, if you're rude to the server...

00:51:07   I love this guy.

00:51:08   Every time you talk about this guy, he sounds so cool.

00:51:11   Oh, that's just...

00:51:12   He sounds like a real original.

00:51:14   Oh, he's one of a kind, truly.

00:51:18   It's a remarkable place, but honest to God, I think at this point, seven, eight, nine

00:51:24   years, maybe it's getting close...

00:51:26   Eight or nine years that he's been open.

00:51:29   But the spreadsheet, he had that...

00:51:32   He knew he was gonna do that from day one.

00:51:34   The spreadsheet...

00:51:35   He had a vision.

00:51:36   Right.

00:51:37   Yeah.

00:51:38   But if you get...

00:51:39   You run up a $35 tab and you leave $37 or something like that, then it goes on your

00:51:47   thing and the next time you show up, he'll tell you you're not allowed in because you

00:51:52   left a bad tip.

00:51:53   Wow.

00:51:54   You don't have to tip exorbitantly.

00:51:57   You just leave your standard 18%, you'll be fine.

00:51:59   That's A-OK.

00:52:01   But you stiff the server with a bad tip, you'll never get in again.

00:52:06   And there's people who show up, he tweets about it, like somebody who got banned four

00:52:10   years ago, and they just figure, "Well, it was four years.

00:52:14   He'll never remember me."

00:52:15   Well, he does because he's got this spreadsheet.

00:52:17   He's using technology.

00:52:19   Now, it's probably really important that that always work.

00:52:24   Don't update my Excel if it's gonna screw up my sheet because I need to know who tips

00:52:28   bad.

00:52:29   The other thing, too, people love to say to him...

00:52:33   It's usually him at the gate, but when they get mad or angry that they can't get in because

00:52:39   of...

00:52:41   Maybe it's a man wearing shorts or somebody who's on the list as a bad tipper.

00:52:47   They'll say, "I would like to speak to the owner."

00:52:49   Oh, man.

00:52:51   You've just made his night.

00:52:54   He's waited all day for that.

00:52:57   Anyway, where I was going with this was in the mail today.

00:53:01   I got the Sharper Image catalog.

00:53:04   Have you looked at the Sharper Image lately?

00:53:06   No, but just off the dome, I thought...

00:53:12   The Sharper Image used to be a force of nature, especially once they started selling those

00:53:18   air filter things.

00:53:21   But then, I feel like they became like Yves Saint Laurent where I thought they were just

00:53:26   licensing their name because...

00:53:27   John, there's a whole end cap at our Walgreens that's Sharper Image stuff, which you would

00:53:32   not have seen in, say, the '90s.

00:53:35   They're still around.

00:53:36   Are they still making or...

00:53:38   They're selling actual stuff from a catalog?

00:53:40   Yep.

00:53:41   It's exactly the sort of stuff...

00:53:42   Okay, I gotta look this up.

00:53:43   I had no idea.

00:53:44   Anyway, I flipped through it.

00:53:45   And again, this is what drives my wife nuts with me going through because now I want to

00:53:48   talk to somebody about it because I flipped through and one of the items about halfway

00:53:52   through the catalog is the Bacon Express toaster.

00:53:57   It's a $60 product.

00:54:00   The code, if you want to look it up on their website, I don't know.

00:54:03   It's also curious.

00:54:05   They don't have URLs.

00:54:06   They have numbers.

00:54:08   It's product number 20...

00:54:09   This looks...

00:54:10   I see.

00:54:11   Yeah, the bacon, I'll put it in notes.

00:54:12   It's 207656.

00:54:13   Yeah.

00:54:14   Okay.

00:54:16   It gets five stars according to the one review.

00:54:19   It's a healthier way to cook bacon and other foods to delicious perfection.

00:54:24   Makes up to six strips of regular...

00:54:26   It cooks vertically, which is a whole paradigm.

00:54:30   It converts to a nonstick griddle for pancakes.

00:54:32   Indicator lights tell you when it's ready to cook.

00:54:35   Okay.

00:54:36   You think you want to get this?

00:54:37   Maybe for a second.

00:54:38   Oh, no, definitely not.

00:54:39   No.

00:54:40   See, I've had a lot of bad luck.

00:54:41   We gotta talk about something else.

00:54:42   I've had a lot of bad luck with cute breakfast things.

00:54:46   Like I'm the sucker who's bought a lot of those, the Michael Scott In Your Life, who

00:54:51   has...

00:54:52   I've bought stuff like basically an Egg McMuffin Maker, and it makes a shitty version of every

00:54:58   component of an Egg McMuffin.

00:55:00   But it's cute about it.

00:55:01   And there's some where you get rings and you build it like you work at Burger King.

00:55:04   It's so odd.

00:55:05   I think a bespoke breakfast maker is not generally a good idea.

00:55:11   No.

00:55:12   No.

00:55:13   But it's only 60 bucks, man.

00:55:14   You could get a few of these.

00:55:15   Yeah.

00:55:16   But I don't want to bring anything else into the kitchen.

00:55:17   I have a little cubby hole where I keep my...

00:55:20   I have a nice big...

00:55:22   I forget the name brand, but whatever Marco told me to buy, Coffee Grinder, which was

00:55:27   way too large for our previous kitchen.

00:55:30   And we moved like five years ago.

00:55:31   Now we have...

00:55:32   Well, you said like a big like freestanding burr grinder kind of thing?

00:55:34   Yeah.

00:55:35   It's the Barraza.

00:55:36   I forget what the hell it is.

00:55:38   But whatever.

00:55:39   It's whatever Marco told me to get.

00:55:40   Well, if it's Marco, I'm sure it's four figures.

00:55:41   But you wouldn't want to keep it out on the counter at all times.

00:55:45   Yeah.

00:55:46   Nobody has space for that.

00:55:47   But I have a little cubby hole and I filled it up with coffee stuff.

00:55:50   And that's all I'm allowed to bring into the kitchen because the rest of it is up...

00:55:55   You know, it's Amy's area.

00:55:56   You know, in the same way that she's not going to buy stuff to put into my office, right?

00:56:00   She's not going to buy like...

00:56:01   Yeah.

00:56:02   I don't go where you work and slap the iPhone out of your mouth.

00:56:05   Yeah.

00:56:06   Or she's not going to pick a new laser printer and just say, "Oh, I bought a printer."

00:56:09   And now...

00:56:10   Oh, boy.

00:56:11   We have words.

00:56:12   I don't like to be like this, but I am the COO of CTO things.

00:56:17   And if something is brought into the house in that instance without my input, don't even

00:56:25   get me started on the pre-lit Christmas tree we bought five years ago.

00:56:29   Because...

00:56:30   And like...

00:56:31   You know what?

00:56:32   I'm telling you what to talk about.

00:56:34   I'm going to learn about Sharper Image.

00:56:35   Did you want to tell me about anything else you like?

00:56:38   Yeah.

00:56:39   Let's take a break here and talk about our friends @MacWeldon.

00:56:41   I'm not going to lie to you, Merlin.

00:56:44   I jiggered the schedule.

00:56:45   It's that time of year.

00:56:46   It's that time of year.

00:56:47   I rejiggered the schedule to get this into the episode with you because I know you got

00:56:52   strong feelings about it.

00:56:53   Look, the holiday season is here and with it come the yearly questions of what do I

00:56:57   wear to non-ugly sweater parties?

00:57:00   How do I maximize my time savoring holiday moments and minimize my time shopping for

00:57:05   gifts?

00:57:06   Look, fear not.

00:57:07   Go to @MacWeldon.

00:57:08   M-A-C-K W-E-L-D-O-N.

00:57:11   They have all the answers, whether it's an office party, a party with family or friends,

00:57:14   or just a party of you, your couch, and a game on TV.

00:57:18   Oh, I love the football.

00:57:19   Mac Weldon has all the essentials to keep you stylish and comfortable throughout the

00:57:23   season and their innovative daily wear system has taken the hard work out of outfit planning

00:57:28   with pieces designed to work together for any occasion, saving you time, sparing you

00:57:33   any extra holiday stress.

00:57:35   Man, I love their stuff.

00:57:37   They've got these, uh, I'm not a sweat pant guy, but Syracuse had talked me into it last

00:57:42   year.

00:57:43   The Ace sweat pants.

00:57:44   Oh man.

00:57:45   Ace is a good pant.

00:57:46   That's a very good pant.

00:57:47   You know what?

00:57:48   And modern sweat pants, they don't really have that old, uh, 80s.

00:57:51   Can I literally beg you now to get started on this?

00:57:53   Because this is the bane of my existence.

00:57:55   I'm a man.

00:57:56   Listen, I'm a loud and proud man with a short rise.

00:57:59   You would not believe what I have to go through to get accommodating pants for my rise.

00:58:03   No matter what you do, I get joke pants.

00:58:06   I get pants that are too high, too long, and because I guess I'm a joke-sized man, which

00:58:12   is fine, but if you find a sweat pant that you love, you put a ring on it.

00:58:17   And the slippers, the shirts, the underpants.

00:58:21   Like I'm big on their shirts.

00:58:23   That's my big thing.

00:58:24   But also, they probably don't even have them in stock because you've destroyed the slipper

00:58:28   industry.

00:58:29   My friend Alex now calls the first time that they wear Macklemore slippers in a given year

00:58:34   because it's cold, slippy season.

00:58:36   Time for slippies.

00:58:37   Yeah, you did that.

00:58:38   You did that.

00:58:39   I'm telling you, the slippers are insane.

00:58:42   And I texted you, this is when we first scheduled this show a couple weeks ago, what I did is,

00:58:47   you know, we've had, you know, chalk it up to probably half climate change and half just

00:58:51   a fluke, but we had a sort of unseasonably warm October here in Philadelphia.

00:58:59   Slipper season started late for me this year.

00:59:01   When I went to the slippers, I opened up a new pair.

00:59:05   Oh.

00:59:06   Oh.

00:59:07   That's the thing.

00:59:08   You know you love it when you got one in the chamber.

00:59:09   You know what I mean?

00:59:11   You know, I've always got one now because they sell, the last time we talked about it

00:59:16   on the show, they sold out for weeks.

00:59:19   You bury the needle.

00:59:20   You, yes, you brought the whole company down.

00:59:22   And then all I heard for months is, "Where do I get the slippies?"

00:59:24   Where do we get the slippers?

00:59:26   I can't help you, you know?

00:59:28   But you know, you could go try the Pima long sleeve t-shirt that I have all of.

00:59:31   I have all of them.

00:59:33   You know what also is great?

00:59:34   They're white, just, this sounds crazy, but they build their clothes.

00:59:38   I don't know if they're cantilevered.

00:59:39   I'm not an engineer, John.

00:59:40   But the way they make their clothes is different.

00:59:43   You get their white undershirts, you tuck them in, they stay tucked in.

00:59:47   I know, right.

00:59:48   But they're not cute about it.

00:59:50   It's just normal clothes.

00:59:51   But I've been, you know, I'm 48 years old.

00:59:55   I've been wearing undershirts, you know, my whole life.

00:59:57   Undershirts are, they tend to, you know, you can tell when an undershirt is a couple of

01:00:02   years old and it's time to turn it into a rag, right?

01:00:06   You know, use it to...

01:00:07   Yeah, when the pits get yellow and waxy.

01:00:09   Yeah, and it loses its shape, you know what I mean?

01:00:11   Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:12   It's all watered up all the time.

01:00:15   I switched to Mack Weldon white undershirts years ago, and I've never had to rebuy them

01:00:21   because they all still look brand new.

01:00:24   I can't tell how old they are, right?

01:00:26   They still look like the day they were, you know, and you know, I'm hard on an undershirt.

01:00:31   You know, I wear them to...

01:00:32   Are you?

01:00:33   Yeah, well, you go to a steakhouse and you work up a good meat sweat, you know.

01:00:36   That's true, that's true.

01:00:37   Or like, yeah, screenshotting some tabs.

01:00:39   That's the kind of thing that's really going to put a hurtin' on a Hanes.

01:00:41   Sorry, sorry, no, no, no, no shade, no lemonade.

01:00:44   Cut that, cut that, cut that.

01:00:45   No disrespect to the fine folks at Hanes.

01:00:48   No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:00:49   Whatever fruit is coming out of your loom, you do you.

01:00:52   I'm here to tell you, when you're ready to grow up and you don't have to dress like a

01:00:55   grown up, but you get to feel like a grown up because you're going to get clothes that

01:00:58   fit, they're extremely well made, they got cool ass zippers in them, and the stuff, it

01:01:03   really, really works.

01:01:05   I like their socks, I like it all.

01:01:06   Like I say, I'm a shirt man.

01:01:07   I just, in the sense that I've, you know, my welding blue is pretty fat right now, let's

01:01:12   just put it that way.

01:01:14   But their shirts are the perfect weight for how and where I live.

01:01:20   I don't feel like some kind of disused lumberjack, nor do I feel like somebody who forgot their

01:01:26   jacket on the first day of third grade.

01:01:28   I'm totally comfortable, and I can pass as an adult when I go into places, which is kind

01:01:33   of the whole idea.

01:01:34   I could wear it to your steakhouse probably.

01:01:36   Can I go into your steakhouse in a Mack Weldon shirt?

01:01:38   Would that be good?

01:01:39   Oh, absolutely.

01:01:40   Yeah, that's what we'd have a box of Mack Weldons all sealed.

01:01:43   Also, by the way, when you buy the new stuff, they come in the nicest packaging you've ever

01:01:47   found.

01:01:48   But it's not obtrusive.

01:01:49   It's not over much with the packaging.

01:01:51   Also, most clothes, I buy new clothes, I generally wash before I wear them the first time.

01:01:58   Mack Weldon stuff, it smells like freshly cleaned.

01:02:01   You know, the comedian Jerry Lewis was an unusual guy, and he had one aspect of his

01:02:07   life, well, there's a lot of aspects of his life to which I do not aspire, you know, having

01:02:12   a loaded gun in the bathroom and getting addicted to drugs and stuff.

01:02:16   Read The King of Comedy by Sean Levy, it's a very good biography.

01:02:20   But you know what I do love?

01:02:22   Jerry Lewis, he showed up somewhere to do a gig.

01:02:24   You know what's in his rider?

01:02:26   Fresh pair of socks.

01:02:27   Jerry Lewis, as a grown man, never wore the same pair of socks twice.

01:02:31   Now, I understand this a little bit wasteful, and like you should, you know, we give one

01:02:36   to, you know.

01:02:37   But like, if I could just have just sort of like maybe, well, they wouldn't say this,

01:02:43   but like an American Psycho closet.

01:02:45   If I had a closet that was just piles and piles and piles of Mack Weldon clothes and

01:02:49   bags, I wouldn't get one every time because they last for years.

01:02:51   That's the value proposition.

01:02:53   But like Nietzsche said, you know, it's a consolation to know that it's there.

01:02:56   I can rip into a new white t-shirt anytime, and that would, I would really feel like I've

01:03:02   arrived.

01:03:03   You get a steakhouse, I get a pile of shirts.

01:03:04   Anyway, they've got these gift sets for the holidays, and it's, they're fantastic.

01:03:09   What a concept.

01:03:10   One gift, it holds many gifts inside.

01:03:12   You can just go there, get somebody on your shopping list, one of their gift sets.

01:03:17   All you need to know is their size, and they get a box full of all sorts of cool stuff

01:03:21   for the holidays.

01:03:22   It's a great gift idea.

01:03:23   Plenty of time right now in early December.

01:03:26   You could still do it with limited edition color drops and a bevy of new releases.

01:03:30   The holiday gift sets are truly a perfect present for any guy on your list.

01:03:34   That's why Mack Weldon is one of my favorites.

01:03:37   And here's what you get.

01:03:38   You get 20% off your first order just by using this URL, mackweldon.com/the-talk-show.

01:03:46   They get it.

01:03:47   Classy.

01:03:48   They got the...

01:03:49   Classy, man.

01:03:50   Classy.

01:03:51   Enter that same, the code is the same thing.

01:03:52   The talk show, all one word.

01:03:54   Just take out the spaces, and you get 20% off your first order.

01:03:58   My thanks to Mack Weldon for dressing me and being, you know, I think that maybe that would

01:04:05   be the dress code.

01:04:07   Maybe we get them to sponsor the steakhouse, and then you almost...

01:04:10   You have to be wearing Mack Weldon to get in.

01:04:12   I'd say it would be a reason for them to really step up their game on the production of slippers.

01:04:17   If they knew everybody at the well-regarded Daring Fireball Steakhouse was going to be

01:04:21   wearing their slippies while they enjoy their baseball Kobe.

01:04:23   Thank you, Mack Weldon.

01:04:25   God.

01:04:26   I don't have to think about it, John.

01:04:28   It's a very, like, Steve Jobs, Marco, Elizabeth Holmes kind of thing.

01:04:32   I just don't want to think about clothes.

01:04:33   I'm only thinking about anything.

01:04:36   I know I grab one of these shirts and I'm going to be happy.

01:04:38   I don't, you know, and it's like the Steve Jobs thing where he had the exact same sweater,

01:04:44   the turtleneck thing.

01:04:46   You kind of have to be a little more self-confident than I am to just say, "I'm going to just

01:04:54   literally wear the exact same thing every goddamn day, including in public appearances."

01:05:00   You know, what's-his-name did the same thing.

01:05:02   Einstein had a favorite blue sweater and then he supposed--I don't know, this could be one

01:05:07   of the--you know, with Steve Jobs we know it's true, but--

01:05:09   And I think they're pretty good.

01:05:11   Didn't we find out that they're from Japan and fairly costly?

01:05:13   Yeah, yeah, they're very expensive.

01:05:15   I don't think those are H&M sweaters.

01:05:18   No, no, there was some famous Japanese designer and he was like, "I like this."

01:05:23   And he was like, "I think maybe I'll just wear this every day."

01:05:25   And then he called them up and he was like, "I would like to buy all of your sweater,

01:05:29   you know, whatever."

01:05:30   And they're like, "No, how many do you want?"

01:05:31   And he's like, "I want them all."

01:05:33   But Einstein apparently did the same thing with a blue sweater.

01:05:36   But you couldn't--with California, you could wear that.

01:05:39   Not everybody can pull that off.

01:05:41   I have a project I'm working on called The Wisdom Project where I add bullet points about

01:05:44   things I've learned in life, and one of them is to generally avoid clothing that's more

01:05:47   interesting than you are.

01:05:49   And I think that also goes for just overall wardrobe, Weltinschong.

01:05:52   Be careful that you're not being too cute.

01:05:54   You know, you might look more like a clown than you realize.

01:05:56   But that's why with the Mack Weldon stuff, like these Warm Net shirts are--again, call

01:06:02   the sponsor read over.

01:06:04   I'm just telling you, I don't know how they make it because it's t-shirt thickness, but

01:06:10   somehow because it's like a waffle knit, it's warmer than some of my actual sweaters that

01:06:16   I have.

01:06:17   Oh yeah.

01:06:18   And it fits better than most of my clothes.

01:06:19   Like, I tend to buy oversized clothes because, like I say, I don't like being aware of my

01:06:23   physical existence.

01:06:25   I mean, I have to deal with that with bathrooms to begin with.

01:06:28   But as far as my clothes, no thank you.

01:06:30   But for some reason, they're t-shirts.

01:06:33   This is probably enough.

01:06:34   Mack Weldon, you guys.

01:06:36   The talk show.

01:06:37   All right.

01:06:38   Before we move, though, I want to go back to the steakhouse thing.

01:06:43   I want to go back.

01:06:44   I'm serving your pleasure, Jon.

01:06:46   Here's the point.

01:06:47   My point is--and A, if I were sufficiently wealthy, I'd love to open a one-of-a-kind

01:06:53   steakhouse here in Philadelphia.

01:06:56   I don't want to have his chain.

01:06:57   You know, I don't want--no, I don't need the hassle.

01:06:59   I'm not in it for the money.

01:07:00   I would like one place.

01:07:03   But the other thing--and I've toyed with this.

01:07:07   I won't do it, but I feel like I could do it, is to write like a sort of a book about

01:07:12   steakhouses and/or like a website like a Zagat's, but instead of for all restaurants, literally

01:07:21   only for steakhouses.

01:07:23   And I guess--so not the typical sort of trip, but maybe along the lines of--what is it,

01:07:29   I got two first names, Rick Steves?

01:07:31   But like one of those like you do like a survey or--I imagine the kind of thing Kenji Lopez

01:07:36   Alt could do.

01:07:37   Oh, well, he's way too talented.

01:07:38   But you don't have like an insider view of something you care a lot about.

01:07:43   And like it's not something cute like wine.

01:07:47   It's stuff where like you can even talk about the overall--because this is--I mean, the

01:07:50   jokes are left around, Jon.

01:07:52   You care a lot about stuff that not everybody cares about, and I happen to share that.

01:07:55   It's one thing--one of the very few things I admire about you is the fact that you do

01:07:59   care about whether that's Ariel or Helvetica.

01:08:02   Or whatever that's going to be.

01:08:04   And I think that's cool about you is that you do have an internal barometer for whether

01:08:09   something is classy or whether something is tasteful.

01:08:14   And I think people who have strong opinions about that and can explain why that is, not

01:08:19   just go like, "I heard the 2018 Beaujolais is really quite toothsome."

01:08:24   Instead, like, you could actually talk about it in words that people understand.

01:08:27   You can explain why you didn't like that tab look.

01:08:29   And I think you could do that.

01:08:31   It doesn't have to be a coffee table book, but it probably shouldn't be an e-book.

01:08:33   I think you should get an actual book.

01:08:35   But you're right, though.

01:08:36   But that's the way my mind works, where I could never write a book about all of typography.

01:08:42   Never.

01:08:43   I don't have the eye for it.

01:08:44   But I could write about like a certain style of typography.

01:08:48   Like I have a type, to put it one way.

01:08:51   Right?

01:08:52   Like, they're like...

01:08:53   Yeah.

01:08:54   Or you could certainly do like humanist grotesque.

01:08:55   Like, that could be...

01:08:57   Right.

01:08:58   Like, isn't that kind of a whole thing for you?

01:08:59   I would be...

01:09:00   What's the Paris airport one?

01:09:01   What's the Paris airport one that I love?

01:09:03   Oh, Frutiger.

01:09:04   Yeah, right.

01:09:05   Adrian Frutiger, right?

01:09:06   Right, right.

01:09:07   His name in namesake typeface.

01:09:09   And it is...

01:09:10   That is an amazing...

01:09:11   Designed to be, I believe, De Gaulle airport.

01:09:13   Yeah.

01:09:14   Yep.

01:09:15   And it is...

01:09:16   Truly an extraordinary film.

01:09:17   It does certain things.

01:09:18   Like, it has those L's, lowercase L's with a little squiggle, which I don't generally

01:09:23   like, but is terrific for signage so that there's no confusion whatsoever that it's

01:09:28   a lowercase L.

01:09:29   There's a YouTube guy that I enjoy.

01:09:30   A guy from, I want to say probably Australia, that does a lot of stuff about typography.

01:09:34   And he just did a wonderful thing.

01:09:36   He actually contributed to Atkinson Hyperlegible, which is such an interesting face.

01:09:42   If you haven't checked into it, it's really, really cool for that reason.

01:09:45   But in his videos, he shows you, like, hey, for somebody who has this particular specific...

01:09:51   Like, don't just wave your hand and go, "I hope people who are blind can figure this

01:09:55   out."

01:09:56   No, no.

01:09:57   If you have...

01:09:58   What's the Don Knotts one that I don't ever want to have?

01:10:00   The one with the middle of your eye?

01:10:01   Oh, macular degeneration.

01:10:02   Yeah, macular degeneration.

01:10:03   Like, greatest fear in life.

01:10:04   Yeah.

01:10:05   Like, this is what your sign looks like to someone with macular degeneration.

01:10:08   For somebody with dyslexia, this is...

01:10:09   And that's why we put a tail on the L. Because this is not about being clever.

01:10:13   This is about making people hit their plane on time.

01:10:16   Mm-hmm.

01:10:17   Well, I...

01:10:18   You could do that.

01:10:19   You should do that.

01:10:20   That'd be a good project for you when you retire.

01:10:21   The type one or the steakhouse one?

01:10:23   Well, I think both.

01:10:24   I mean, you could have an office there, I'm thinking.

01:10:25   Or both, right.

01:10:26   Yeah, you could have an incubator.

01:10:27   Here's the thing.

01:10:28   So, I am completely unsuited to reviewing restaurants in general.

01:10:34   Now, you can...

01:10:36   Let's say I went to visit you and you said, "Hey, there's..."

01:10:38   But you know what you like, but that wouldn't be your wheelhouse.

01:10:40   Right.

01:10:41   So, it's not like everywhere I want to go, I always want to go to a steakhouse.

01:10:45   I'm up for anything.

01:10:46   I'll go to any Korean barbecue.

01:10:48   I'll go to an Italian place.

01:10:50   I'll go wherever you want.

01:10:51   I'll go and I'll be a good spirit and try to pick something I enjoy from it.

01:10:55   But I would never think...

01:10:56   I could tell you afterwards whether I enjoyed my dish, whether I enjoyed the service, but

01:11:01   I would never think I could review the place.

01:11:04   Because I don't have a...

01:11:05   I can tell that I don't have an acute sense of what is good or bad or what's wrong about

01:11:12   it.

01:11:13   But I could definitely...

01:11:14   I can go to a steakhouse and have a meal at a steakhouse and I can tell you every single

01:11:18   thing that was good about it and exactly where they screwed up and what's wrong with the

01:11:22   place.

01:11:23   Right.

01:11:24   Yeah, I think I know what you mean.

01:11:26   Where it's like...

01:11:27   There's certain kinds of things where like...

01:11:28   And it's one problem with...

01:11:30   I mean, I love TV and movies and I love talking about it and I love suggesting things to my

01:11:35   friends and it's practically an obsession.

01:11:37   My friends make fun of me because I'm constantly like, "You've got to watch What We Do in the

01:11:41   Shadows or you've got to watch Yellow Jackets or whatever."

01:11:45   And in some cases, if it's somebody who has a similar taste and sensibility, I can very

01:11:48   much explain why.

01:11:49   And I feel like I've even gotten better at explaining it without spoilers.

01:11:53   So I mean, frequently I'll find myself saying things like, "Well, I know you like Synecdoche,

01:11:58   New York, and I know you like Edgar Wright, so you might want to check this out."

01:12:02   And that's all I'm going to say about that.

01:12:04   If you trust...

01:12:05   Not like me or my taste, but if you trust that we have enough similarity that you'll

01:12:10   take a flyer...

01:12:11   It was like, "That was me in The Leftovers with Syracuse," where he was like, "This show's

01:12:16   really weird.

01:12:17   You're probably going to hate it."

01:12:18   And now it just recently surpassed The Wire as my favorite TV show.

01:12:23   But when I'm on something like The Incomparable, I feel like such an idiot because I end up

01:12:27   saying, "I like Doctor Who," or whatever.

01:12:29   I can't break it down in a way that makes any sense in a way that an actual critic could.

01:12:34   Like David...

01:12:35   I mean, oh, God, David from Blank Check does movie reviews for The Atlantic.

01:12:41   He's like the king of the one-line letterboxed review.

01:12:45   He's so good at in eight words encompassing everything about how he feels about this movie

01:12:51   in a way that will help you understand whether it's something you want to check out.

01:12:56   And not everybody has that.

01:12:58   If I talked about that, I would just sound like a dope.

01:13:01   It's like, "I like when he time travels," or whatever.

01:13:05   I used to feel that way about my affinity for steakhouses because what could be more

01:13:09   basic than saying, "I like a big piece of hot..."

01:13:13   I like large portions.

01:13:14   "Large portions of steak with mashed potatoes and..."

01:13:17   Golden Corral, A minus.

01:13:19   "Martinis."

01:13:20   But not to spend too much more time on it, but my basic rules...

01:13:26   There is a difference between a place that happens to have steak on the menu and a steakhouse.

01:13:30   A steakhouse is a thing.

01:13:33   Part of the things are, number one, a steakhouse absolutely, positively must be able to make

01:13:38   a great martini.

01:13:40   It's table steaks.

01:13:42   You don't have to say...

01:13:43   You don't have to tell them not to put too much vermouth in or anything.

01:13:46   You just tell them what type of martini you want.

01:13:49   And pick your gin, pick your vodka, and you're going to get a great martini.

01:13:53   It is going to be ice cold.

01:13:55   If you get olives, they're going to be delicious.

01:13:58   They do this, and I love videos of street food and Asian and all that stuff, and all

01:14:02   these things we're talking about.

01:14:03   These people just do this all day long.

01:14:06   You know what I mean?

01:14:07   I really love process videos, and I like the ones of, "This is the place that makes the

01:14:11   fanciest hamburger in this city, and this is how they make the dough, and this is how

01:14:15   they do the things."

01:14:16   And it's like, all day long.

01:14:17   This is all they do all day long.

01:14:19   If that man or woman's job is to pour a perfect martini all day, they can probably even look

01:14:24   at you, they can knock on Gladwell you a little bit and go like, "Oh, I have a feeling you're

01:14:28   going to want less vermouth," without even having to ask.

01:14:30   They must have a nice selection of wine.

01:14:34   I'm not a wine drinker, but just because I'm not doesn't mean a steakhouse must have nice

01:14:40   wine.

01:14:41   But it also must be unpretentious, where they're not trying to sell you a $200 bottle of wine.

01:14:48   If you would like it, it's on the menu, it's there.

01:14:53   And you can always—this is one of the things that was like a revelation to me like 15 years

01:14:57   ago, like way too late in life—is I was so intimidated about wine, I just thought,

01:15:03   "Well, they have $200 bottles of wine.

01:15:05   That's what they want you to get in the $50 bottle of wine.

01:15:08   It must be garbage or something like that."

01:15:10   No!

01:15:11   And you can always just ask for the psalm.

01:15:13   The sommelier will come over, and you can just explain what you would like in very different—

01:15:18   You're not going to embarrass yourself if you say like, "Oh, it's our anniversary,

01:15:21   but we kind of don't want to spend more than $50."

01:15:24   And then he could be like, "Well, do you like this or do you like that?"

01:15:26   And that's the person's entire job.

01:15:29   And in the most unpretentious terms, where you don't have to—it's like frou-frou,

01:15:33   I don't even know what you're talking about.

01:15:34   It'd be like, "Do you like fruity?"

01:15:36   You know what I don't like?

01:15:37   I don't like tannins.

01:15:38   And he'd be like, "I got you.

01:15:39   This is it.

01:15:40   It's $45.

01:15:41   You're going to love it.

01:15:43   You got to have that.

01:15:44   You must have on the menu, you must have a wedge salad.

01:15:51   Just the—

01:15:52   Like a chunk of—a chunk of— iceberg or romaine?

01:15:56   Iceberg.

01:15:57   Well, you could do romaine.

01:15:58   Iceberg with like blue cheese, that kind of thing.

01:15:59   Iceberg, blue cheese, and it's got to be real blue cheese.

01:16:05   You can't just be—you can't put like—if you go to a steakhouse—

01:16:07   No, you can't just get a jar of wing sauce.

01:16:10   Well, if you go to a steakhouse, this is like a thing—you just know you're going

01:16:14   to have a bad meal.

01:16:15   You're new in town, you've gone to the—taken a guess, you go to the steakhouse, and they

01:16:20   say they have ranch dressing on the wedge salad.

01:16:22   Doesn't even matter if you don't want the wedge salad.

01:16:25   I'm telling you right now, you're doomed to—

01:16:28   Does it come with a toy?

01:16:29   Yeah, it's no good.

01:16:30   You know?

01:16:31   That's real.

01:16:32   And again, for Caesars, it's okay.

01:16:35   People should enjoy what they want.

01:16:36   I'm not trying to shame anybody by anything, but an actual Caesar salad made table side

01:16:40   is going to be very, very different from what you're used to.

01:16:43   It's going to be very anchovy forward in a lot of ways, which I love, but not a lot

01:16:48   of other people do.

01:16:49   But it's kind of one reason I love these videos, whether it's process videos or teppanyaki

01:16:54   videos.

01:16:55   The beauty of these teppanyaki videos, especially the Aiden Films channel on YouTube, is a good

01:17:00   teppanyaki chef—and again, we're talking here about in America what we think of as

01:17:03   Benihana—but it's not—again, I'm using that word because it's become important

01:17:07   to me—it's not cute.

01:17:08   They're not trying to do jokey stuff and throw shrimp in your face.

01:17:11   But it's more like when you watch a good teppanyaki chef, it's very economical.

01:17:15   Every move is very economical.

01:17:17   And they cook, whether it's a slice of garlic or a $600 lobster, they cook every morsel

01:17:23   of food like it's the main dish.

01:17:25   And once you become aware of that phenomenon, you don't love getting a salad that's

01:17:30   lukewarm and has a bunch of like bagged sliced carrots on it.

01:17:35   And that sounds like where you could excel here.

01:17:37   You got your standards, you know what you want, and you know whether or not it worked

01:17:40   and how it could be better.

01:17:43   Every steakhouse has to have all the standards, right?

01:17:45   You got to have a filet, you got to have—

01:17:47   Martini wedge salad.

01:17:50   I would say you do not have to offer a Caesar salad.

01:17:53   A wedge is a must.

01:17:55   A Caesar is very typically offered.

01:17:57   It's a lot of work.

01:17:58   But if you do have a Caesar, it must be a great Caesar salad.

01:18:02   Has to be.

01:18:03   You cannot phone it in.

01:18:04   It cannot be something where it's already been pre-made and the cheese tastes like the

01:18:08   romaine.

01:18:09   It's got to be good.

01:18:12   French onion soup.

01:18:13   You don't have to have French onion soup.

01:18:15   Oh, that's nice.

01:18:16   That could be nice.

01:18:17   But you could have—but if you do have French onion soup, it better be fucking good.

01:18:21   You know what I mean?

01:18:22   Like a little crock with the cheese on top.

01:18:23   Oh, and it's got to be in the crock with the cheese on top.

01:18:27   It's like White Castle, like two out of three times gives me the trots.

01:18:32   Boys, it's never worth it.

01:18:33   Love, love the cheese crock.

01:18:35   That's a good-ass soup.

01:18:36   Maybe we'll get a flight of ammonium with it.

01:18:39   Again, now, let's say you get the French onion soup.

01:18:42   Yes.

01:18:43   And you've already placed your order.

01:18:44   You've got a steak coming as a second, your next course, and some side dishes, et cetera,

01:18:50   and so forth.

01:18:51   But they put the French onion soup in front of you.

01:18:55   And number one, they better give you the special soup spoon, right?

01:18:59   Because you can't enjoy it with a regular spoon.

01:19:02   You got to have the French onion soup or soup spoon, right?

01:19:05   It's more of a spherical spoon.

01:19:08   When you first break the seal on the cheese over the crock, if the whole thing just moves—

01:19:15   I think you should give me a grapefruit spoon just to get started.

01:19:18   If you can't just easily break through the cheese because the cheese is so nice and melty,

01:19:24   if it's sort of coagulated and the cheese on the top is sort of a solid and you kind

01:19:31   of have to like—you almost think to yourself you'd almost like to have a knife to cut

01:19:36   the cheese, right?

01:19:37   Right.

01:19:38   It's—the rest of your meal is going to be mediocre.

01:19:41   It's like it looks too thick and it's cooling off and it reflects—

01:19:44   Too thick, or maybe it had been made before and they just sort of heated it up.

01:19:47   Who knows what the explanation is?

01:19:49   If it's not a very liquidy cheese on top that is so easy that it, you know—and then

01:19:56   you can share your soup.

01:19:57   My wife will almost never order soup for herself, but she enjoys a few slurps of mine.

01:20:06   If it's a good soup, then she doesn't have to worry that she's going to take the

01:20:09   whole piece of cheese at once, you know, because it's—

01:20:12   Oh, I see what you're saying.

01:20:13   That's really awkward.

01:20:14   It's like a blanket hog but for French soup.

01:20:16   I get it.

01:20:17   Exactly.

01:20:18   Right.

01:20:19   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:20:20   Exactly.

01:20:21   Oh no, I'm sorry.

01:20:22   This busted-ass, you know, ivory hockey puck of cheese has caused me to do something disruptive.

01:20:25   I think you're on the right track.

01:20:27   What else?

01:20:28   What are some other ones?

01:20:29   What about the knives?

01:20:30   Do you have a strong feeling about the knives?

01:20:31   So I—you just want a nice knife.

01:20:33   That's what I say.

01:20:34   We have a place—

01:20:35   Yeah, a jokey outback, you know, buck knife kind of thing, right?

01:20:39   We have a place here in Philadelphia.

01:20:41   It's a very nice restaurant called Barkley Prime, and it's a one-off steakhouse.

01:20:49   I guess probably the most expensive in the city.

01:20:51   It's pretty ritzy.

01:20:54   You know, it's a nice once-or-twice-a-year thing.

01:20:55   They used to have a gimmick where they would come out and offer you, like, six knives,

01:21:02   like two from Japan, two from Germany.

01:21:06   Yeah.

01:21:07   What?

01:21:08   Is it a trick?

01:21:09   Is it like to find out if you're the Dalai Lama?

01:21:10   That feels like a jam-up.

01:21:11   Well, it's—

01:21:12   You've chosen poorly.

01:21:14   It's so over-the-top ridiculous that it actually—I think it plays not as pretentious,

01:21:20   but as just sort of fun.

01:21:25   But the funny part about it, though, is they'll come to the table.

01:21:29   Let's say you have a table for four, right?

01:21:32   You're out with another couple, and there's four of you at the table.

01:21:36   They come out with the six knives.

01:21:37   There's only one of each.

01:21:39   And so, like—

01:21:40   Oh, my God!

01:21:41   So let's say you do have—

01:21:43   It's like musical knives.

01:21:44   You have a very particular preference for, like, the one knife from Germany is your favorite.

01:21:50   Well, if somebody else takes it first, you've either got to—

01:21:53   So somebody beat you to the Henkel.

01:21:55   I'm not sure.

01:21:56   I would just take another knife.

01:21:57   That's me, personally.

01:21:58   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:59   I'm sure if you said to the server, if you said, "You know, I actually would like that

01:22:03   German knife, too," they would go get you another one.

01:22:05   No questions asked.

01:22:06   But the last—

01:22:07   If I were the server, I would say, "I'm sorry, sir.

01:22:10   Your wife wanted it more."

01:22:11   That's what I would say.

01:22:12   Yeah, it's a ridiculous gimmick, and I believe—I don't know if it was a COVID thing.

01:22:15   We went there once over the summer during our brief six-week period where everything

01:22:21   looked on the upswing COVID-wise.

01:22:24   We went back, and it was nice.

01:22:27   It's actually a nice place, too, where it was one of the few places in Philadelphia

01:22:30   where they had continued to pay their server staff through the whole thing.

01:22:36   So all the regular servers were still there, which is almost unheard of here.

01:22:41   Almost all of our places, we've lost our favorite servers because the whole thing.

01:22:46   But last time we were there, they did not do the knife thing.

01:22:51   They just gave us a regular steak knife.

01:22:52   And we didn't say anything.

01:22:54   I don't know.

01:22:55   I don't know what.

01:22:56   I don't know how COVID would have affected the knife gimmick.

01:22:59   Well, but it's—and certainly we could do a half-hour bit about this, but the whole

01:23:04   thing of, "Well, the reason we can't do that is because of COVID."

01:23:06   It's like, "Hmm, okay."

01:23:08   But there are some kinds of things where it absolutely makes sense.

01:23:11   But can I have one more?

01:23:13   I do have a couple more questions real quick.

01:23:16   But when you're done, I need to know about—well, I want to know how you're going to handle

01:23:19   some of the tricky issues.

01:23:22   Well, like what?

01:23:24   Well, I mean—and I'm not trying to shake you—chilled salad fork.

01:23:28   Oh, yeah, you got it.

01:23:30   Oh, absolutely.

01:23:31   And your steak—

01:23:32   Okay, I like that you passed.

01:23:34   Your steak will come on a plate that is dangerously hot.

01:23:38   You cannot—whoever, when they bring out your steak, it comes on a plate.

01:23:42   It'll make you sign something, probably.

01:23:43   You're talking about it really seriously.

01:23:45   You're talking about, basically, like a crucible.

01:23:49   Yeah.

01:23:50   And again, I always thought when I was younger and was on, you know, when I was poor, let's

01:23:58   say, I loved Outback Steakhouse.

01:24:00   I still do.

01:24:01   I'll go to an Outback.

01:24:02   I haven't been to one.

01:24:03   It's like Starbucks.

01:24:04   It's like people complain about it, but boy, you could sure do a lot worse when you're

01:24:07   visiting somewhere.

01:24:08   Oh, yeah, you could definitely do—you could do a lot worse.

01:24:11   And I'll tell you what—

01:24:12   It's really consistent.

01:24:13   Every time you get an Outback Steak, it is cooked to perf—you know, it is exactly what

01:24:17   you want.

01:24:18   They know what they're doing.

01:24:19   And the best cut there is the Outback Special.

01:24:22   And I don't know what exact type of meat.

01:24:25   I'm not a butcher.

01:24:26   I think it might be the—I don't know off the dome, but I have a feeling that might

01:24:30   be what some people call a club steak or where it's basically like the—you cut the cap

01:24:35   off of a ribeye.

01:24:36   Maybe.

01:24:37   And it's just sort of the fancy ribeye part in the middle.

01:24:39   I could be wrong.

01:24:40   But—

01:24:41   I agree with you.

01:24:42   And the seasoning's great.

01:24:43   I love the seasoning.

01:24:44   Also, as a general rule, not just steakhouses, but restaurants in particular, if the name

01:24:48   of the restaurant is on one of the dishes, that's what you should get.

01:24:51   And this—I remember you and Simpson telling me this, but I was like—when we went to

01:24:56   the House of Prime Rib, and I was like, "Well, what cut do I get?"

01:24:59   There's like the Princess Cut and the City Cut and the House—

01:25:02   There's Princess City English and—

01:25:05   House of Prime Rib Cut.

01:25:06   But then there's also—

01:25:07   Well, they have one called King Henry VIII.

01:25:08   King Henry VIII, which is—that's what you get.

01:25:11   Which is enormous.

01:25:12   The only time I've ever competed with you—unconsciously, I know you're very competitive, and I guess

01:25:15   I am, but there was one evening—I don't like to brag about it.

01:25:18   I don't like to brag about this, John, because it makes you feel bad, makes your listeners

01:25:20   feel bad.

01:25:21   But I think one night you were actually perhaps at first impressed and eventually appalled

01:25:25   by how much food I can eat.

01:25:26   Yes, that's true.

01:25:27   Remember?

01:25:28   Remember that night?

01:25:29   And you seemed a little bit like with the Cowboys lost or something.

01:25:31   Yeah, yeah, I was—

01:25:32   And you were like, "Wow, you just had a dessert cut too, huh?"

01:25:34   Yeah, I think it was me and you and—

01:25:37   I can eat all the meat.

01:25:38   Sandy and Simpson and Marco.

01:25:40   Remember?

01:25:41   Marco was with us.

01:25:42   Oh my god.

01:25:43   My friend Ben, we went there with the—of all things—the MacBreak Weekly Pixel Core

01:25:47   group one time, and my friend Ben is—he's not vegan, but he's vegetarian.

01:25:52   And they look like—this is not a very woke thing to say, but it looked like he came in

01:25:57   wearing a fancy dress and holding a parasol because he's like, "What do you have that's

01:26:02   vegetarian?"

01:26:03   Marco has a photo of us from that night, and he has it—I think it's of all places in

01:26:10   his powder room off his office, but I was at Marco's house a while back, and there's

01:26:16   this picture of us, and everybody looks pretty happy.

01:26:19   I look a little glum, and that's exactly why, as I was a little depressed, because

01:26:25   I thought I could eat—

01:26:27   I bested you at beef?

01:26:29   At beef, right.

01:26:30   It wasn't even close.

01:26:31   It wasn't—

01:26:32   I won a rematch.

01:26:34   It wasn't even close.

01:26:35   It was like if we were playing golf, you would have had to spot—

01:26:38   It's affliction.

01:26:39   I'd love to say I'm proud of that.

01:26:41   There's other things I'd love to win at.

01:26:43   I'd love to win at being good to my family or the Lord or something, but I can eat all

01:26:49   the food.

01:26:50   It's really bad.

01:26:51   If we were playing golf instead of eating meat, I'd have to play from the children's

01:26:55   teas up front.

01:26:56   Oh, you go way, way up front.

01:26:59   But anyway—

01:27:00   Yeah.

01:27:01   Napkin folding?

01:27:02   How do you feel about you stand up and they fold your napkin?

01:27:04   Are you cool with that?

01:27:05   Do you like that?

01:27:06   You know, places where like you—I think generally I learned from Emily Post and Amy

01:27:10   Vanderbilt—you're supposed to put your napkin usually on your seat, I think, or something.

01:27:15   How do you feel about you go to, I don't know, take a pee or drop a deuce and they

01:27:20   fold your napkin for you?

01:27:21   I think it's kind of nice.

01:27:22   I think it's kind of nice too, but yeah, it needs to be invisible.

01:27:27   So that the other—

01:27:28   Yeah, French service.

01:27:29   What's funny is I don't want to drag this out because we still have 12 hours of a documentary

01:27:34   to talk about, but this is the thing about French Laundry.

01:27:36   I've been to French Laundry once and it was astonishing.

01:27:39   It's a very fancy—not fancy, it's Thomas Keller and it's a—I say fancy, but it's

01:27:44   just that kind of restaurant, best restaurant in America for a few years, that kind of thing.

01:27:49   But what's amazing about it—and I went there with a group of friends that we called

01:27:52   the Gentleman Who Dime and we would go out once a month somewhere kind of nice and then

01:27:56   one time we went to French Laundry.

01:27:57   It's the only time I've ever been there and we were all so scared about something

01:28:01   going wrong.

01:28:02   And what was amazing was the service could not have been more—here's the word—cordial.

01:28:08   Just so low-key, puts you at ease.

01:28:11   But also, the part you want—here, the part you want from French service is not being

01:28:16   an asshole.

01:28:17   The part you want from French service is you anticipate what people want and take care

01:28:22   of it without bothering them.

01:28:24   Without pretense.

01:28:25   But bothering and—yeah, pretense also, but also the whole like, "How are we doing today?

01:28:29   Chip, I'm going to be your server.

01:28:30   Do you mind if I stoop down in your banquette?

01:28:33   How are we doing here?

01:28:35   Well, I haven't touched the food.

01:28:37   The water's been empty for a while, you know?

01:28:39   To me, the key with the folded napkin—

01:28:41   Just make things happen.

01:28:42   Be classy.

01:28:43   To me, the key with the folded napkin isn't when you go to drop a deuce mid-meal.

01:28:49   It's when your dinner companion goes and their napkin gets folded and you didn't—you're

01:28:55   still at the table.

01:28:56   You didn't even notice.

01:28:57   You didn't even notice it.

01:28:58   You didn't even notice.

01:28:59   Because they're not coming up and they're not gossiping about them and stuff.

01:29:00   No.

01:29:01   They're just folding out.

01:29:02   No, but what about the crumb scraper?

01:29:03   Crumb scraper?

01:29:04   You like a crumb scraper?

01:29:05   Oh, you've got to have a crumb scraper.

01:29:06   You've got to have a crumb scraper.

01:29:07   Just don't be a dick about it.

01:29:08   Don't be a dick about it.

01:29:09   Don't make me feel bad about my crumbs.

01:29:10   No, and don't make me feel bad about the terrible way that I've destroyed your tablecloth.

01:29:14   Just don't make me feel bad.

01:29:16   You know, that's what we say here during Fuckball Stakehouse.

01:29:20   I've absolutely—

01:29:21   If I want to make you feel bad, you'll know it.

01:29:23   I absolutely ruin every tablecloth I ever eat.

01:29:27   You're hard on a tablecloth.

01:29:28   I'm hard on a tablecloth because there's a lot going on.

01:29:31   You're scooping potatoes.

01:29:32   Well?

01:29:33   You know, there's—

01:29:34   That's what it's signed up for.

01:29:36   It's like one of your undershirts.

01:29:37   You really put a hurting on it.

01:29:38   Right.

01:29:39   You're meant to share.

01:29:40   That's the thing about a steakhouse.

01:29:41   You're meant to share everything.

01:29:42   Everything is up for the table.

01:29:43   Oh, can I make one last request, please?

01:29:45   Oh, absolutely.

01:29:46   Tell me.

01:29:47   Could you please—I mean, I don't want to get up in your shit, but would you consider,

01:29:50   please, not only never asking a certain question, but to ban that question from being asked

01:29:55   by the staff, "Is this your first time dining with us?"

01:29:58   Oh, yeah.

01:29:59   I agree with you.

01:30:00   I agree.

01:30:01   How is that relevant?

01:30:02   Yeah, I agree.

01:30:03   No, I don't understand food.

01:30:04   Please explain sauce.

01:30:05   I don't know it.

01:30:06   Small plates, huh?

01:30:07   That's crazy.

01:30:08   What, do you have a name for it?

01:30:09   Well, we call it tapas.

01:30:10   What?

01:30:11   I've never eaten here before.

01:30:12   I don't understand food.

01:30:13   Which hole do I shove it in?

01:30:14   In theory, you could make a restaurant where—or like my friend Hapsing Londermats' place,

01:30:25   Lee's place.

01:30:26   Very editorial.

01:30:27   It is an unusual place with unusual rules, and there's a couple, you know, that if

01:30:32   you've never been there before, you should know.

01:30:34   For example, one of the rules is no phone calls in the main room.

01:30:38   If you need to make a phone call—

01:30:39   I love this guy.

01:30:40   I love him.

01:30:41   You're allowed to use your phone.

01:30:44   You can, like, you know, tweet or, you know, answer text messages, whatever you want, but

01:30:48   you cannot speak on the telephone in the bar.

01:30:53   But it's—

01:30:54   Which is exactly the kind of thing that—I use my phone for a phone as little as possible,

01:31:00   but when people do use it as a phone, it's incredibly distracting.

01:31:03   It's incredibly distracting.

01:31:05   You're always louder than you think you are, but you don't have to leave the premises.

01:31:09   You don't have to go outside.

01:31:11   You can just go to the sort of—what would you call it?

01:31:13   The anteroom?

01:31:14   Lobby?

01:31:15   The lobby?

01:31:16   Yeah, there's like a little lobby when you first come in, and you could just—

01:31:19   That's totally reasonable.

01:31:20   And you just walk out there, and you can make a phone call.

01:31:22   If for example somebody calls you, you don't have to, like, ignore the call.

01:31:26   You can pick up your phone and say hello, but then immediately what you need to do is

01:31:31   go to the—

01:31:32   You can't carry on a conversation.

01:31:34   And no photographs is the other rule.

01:31:36   You cannot take a photograph—

01:31:37   No photographs?

01:31:38   Oh, now that is interesting, because I feel like a lot of places—we had a bar that opened

01:31:41   not long before lockdown that I just started calling the Instagram bar, because they had

01:31:46   clearly bought a bespoke pink neon shitty sign that was like "live, laugh, love"

01:31:52   kind of stuff.

01:31:53   And I was like, "Oh, God, you can tell this place—" because you've heard about this,

01:31:56   right?

01:31:57   This trend of, like, trend or whatever.

01:31:58   Of like, because where we are now, you really need to be on Instagram.

01:32:03   Like, you need to have people out there talking about how cool you're playing.

01:32:08   God, that's a power move, Jonathan.

01:32:09   In a good way.

01:32:10   In a really good way.

01:32:11   He's had that rule from the get-go, but he explains to you when you come in, and it tells

01:32:16   you the rules.

01:32:17   No cell phone calls in the room, no photos, period, anywhere indoors.

01:32:21   And he says it's for privacy of the other guests, so that way nobody who's there needs

01:32:25   to worry about being photographed unbeknownst to them.

01:32:29   And it's a little bit like—I don't want to sound like I'm not trying to be funny

01:32:34   here, but there are so many situations where there are things we don't need to say to

01:32:38   you.

01:32:39   If it's a funeral, if it's a church service, please don't have—first of all, why is

01:32:44   your ringer on?

01:32:45   Why is your ringer on anywhere, let alone at a funeral?

01:32:50   Like don't you feel the vibration like the rest of us do?

01:32:52   Like do you really need your, you know, "Ba da ba da ba da ba da ba da ba da ba da ba

01:32:56   ba da ba da, I'm ringing, I'm ringing, please pick me up."

01:32:59   And like, no!

01:33:00   Like, don't do that.

01:33:01   Do we have to tell you, like, during the—during communion, you know?

01:33:07   Please don't take a call about your tea time?

01:33:08   We went to see John Mulaney here in Philadelphia a few weeks ago, and my son is—

01:33:13   I heard that was great, I heard it was great.

01:33:16   Aspiring comedian, my son, or at least as a fan of the medium, and he is him and me and

01:33:23   my wife, and we got—my wife, of course, was in charge of getting tickets, so we got

01:33:27   some nice tickets.

01:33:28   It was a great show, it really was.

01:33:29   He's—

01:33:30   I heard it was pretty moving, is what I heard.

01:33:31   It was.

01:33:32   And it, you know, he—

01:33:33   My friends who saw it cried, so they cried a bunch.

01:33:36   It was.

01:33:37   It was a little bit—

01:33:38   Like, raw?

01:33:39   We've seen him a few times.

01:33:41   Yeah, but we've seen him a few times, and his previous—

01:33:45   He is my favorite comedian working today, full stop.

01:33:47   I could see that.

01:33:48   He's one of mine.

01:33:50   He might be Jonas' favorite working today.

01:33:52   Amy—we all—all three of us love him, but his previous shtick was very polished, right?

01:33:58   And the bits were very rehearsed, and they're all clearly bits, and he's personally gone

01:34:05   through a lot.

01:34:06   He was in rehab, his marriage broke up, and he's been through a lot.

01:34:11   She also—she got the dog.

01:34:13   Yep, she got the dog, who he loved.

01:34:15   Petunia, I believe the name.

01:34:17   Petunia.

01:34:18   Petunia, they used to push it around the baby.

01:34:20   Yeah, a moving show, it was, because he addressed his personal stuff straight on, and in a way

01:34:25   that—

01:34:26   A contrast with the polish of, like, Kid Gorgeous or whatever.

01:34:29   Yeah, exactly.

01:34:31   But a little bit venturing into one-man show territory, where it's a little autobiographical,

01:34:37   but even as it was raw, continuously funny.

01:34:40   But anyway, he performed in one of—I forget which one.

01:34:44   I think it's our Miriam Theater, but we have two of these old theaters right next to each

01:34:49   other on Broad Street here in Philadelphia, and they're these old 1880 constructed—

01:34:56   Very haunted.

01:34:58   Oh my god, but every time—I mean, it's honestly, like, he even said, he's like, "I've been

01:35:03   here before."

01:35:04   This is like my favorite—I feel so under-able to be on—I'm not good enough to be on this

01:35:13   stage.

01:35:14   This theater is so beautiful.

01:35:15   It's really, really nice.

01:35:16   But anyway, they had to rule no cell phones.

01:35:19   And what they did—you ever, you know, it's like a whole thing in comedy now, where A,

01:35:23   it's a—

01:35:24   Oh, you put it in a bag or something?

01:35:25   Yeah, you gotta put it in a bag.

01:35:26   So they don't take your cell phone, they—you know, you come in and you can put it in a

01:35:32   little bag that's like a tiny little—what do you call those chambers?

01:35:36   Like a Faraday cage?

01:35:38   Faraday cage, right.

01:35:39   It's like a Faraday bag.

01:35:40   And you get to keep your phone, but then as you leave, then there's somebody there to

01:35:45   unlock it, you know, with like a magnetic thing.

01:35:47   You know, like those anti-shoplifting things on clothes.

01:35:50   Sure, sure, sure.

01:35:52   So we just showed up without our phones, because, you know, we could walk there, and all three

01:35:58   of us were there, so who else is going to call us?

01:36:01   We just showed up without phones and we could get out earlier.

01:36:03   But anyway, towards the end of the show, somebody's cell phone rang, and literally rang, and he's

01:36:08   like, "That takes balls to go to a no cell phone show and not even mute your phone."

01:36:14   And the person—it was sufficiently—they died on the spot.

01:36:18   They just died.

01:36:19   That's such a bad look.

01:36:20   Oh my goodness.

01:36:21   He's like, "That's really something," where you snuck your cell phone in outside

01:36:27   the bag, but didn't even think to mute it.

01:36:30   I mean, that's something.

01:36:31   Anyway, how about we take a break and thank our good friends at LinkedIn?

01:36:34   Let's do it.

01:36:35   LinkedIn.

01:36:36   You ever hear of LinkedIn?

01:36:38   These days—

01:36:39   I sure have.

01:36:40   You can go there and you make professional connections, and I remember it from being

01:36:44   a place where you put your resume where people could find it.

01:36:46   But I think people also have relationships and deal with people on there, and they have

01:36:50   training things.

01:36:51   Well, it can be hard to find and hire the right candidates for your small business,

01:36:55   and that's why LinkedIn Jobs made it easier to find the people you want to talk to faster

01:37:01   and for free.

01:37:03   Create a free job post in minutes, just minutes, on LinkedIn Jobs and reach your network and

01:37:09   beyond to the world's largest professional network of over 770 million people.

01:37:16   That sounds like too big, but it's actually the truth.

01:37:18   That's how big—

01:37:19   Did you say the right letters there?

01:37:20   That sounds like a lot.

01:37:21   770 million people.

01:37:23   Million people.

01:37:24   Focus on the candidates with just the right skills and experience.

01:37:27   They have screening questions.

01:37:29   You can customize them.

01:37:31   Get your role in front of only the most qualified people, and then use the tools on LinkedIn

01:37:36   Jobs to filter and prioritize the candidates whom you'd like to interview and eventually

01:37:42   hire.

01:37:43   That's why small businesses rate LinkedIn Jobs number one in delivering quality hires

01:37:48   and quality candidates versus their leading competitors, who we shall not name.

01:37:53   LinkedIn Jobs helps you find the candidates you want to talk to faster.

01:37:56   Every week, nearly 40 million job seekers visit LinkedIn.

01:38:01   That's people looking for jobs, ready to find the job that you're offering.

01:38:05   Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/TheTalkShow.

01:38:11   That's a three for three, all three sponsors with—

01:38:14   Whoa!

01:38:15   Total class all the way down the line.

01:38:17   Now you've chosen well.

01:38:18   I don't know that that's ever happened before.

01:38:20   It's LinkedIn.com/TheTalkShow to post your job for free, terms and conditions.

01:38:26   Both terms and conditions apply.

01:38:28   That seems fair to me, Jon.

01:38:30   All right.

01:38:31   Let's talk—

01:38:32   You've got to have terms.

01:38:33   Hey, listen, can I introduce a technology to your show that might change your life?

01:38:36   All right.

01:38:37   And you feel free to cut this and tell me no.

01:38:38   Well, part two is I need to pee.

01:38:40   Part number one, something I've started doing on two of my other shows that has been

01:38:45   transformative and it's called Taking a Break.

01:38:48   When you do a longer show, like when Syracuse and I do a bonus episode, we take a break

01:38:54   between the main episode and the bonus episode.

01:38:56   When Alex and I, every week, we talk for an hour and a half or two hours and then we record

01:39:00   a half hour or one hour long after show for Patreon, have you considered having a 15-minute

01:39:05   break maybe with music?

01:39:07   Not the whole time, but you could play Girl From Ibenema.

01:39:10   Well, I'm not going to do a two.

01:39:13   I'm just going to do a one, but that way I could turn on the fans.

01:39:15   We could refresh our drinks.

01:39:18   Would you think about that?

01:39:19   Would you consider that so I could pee?

01:39:20   Yeah, let's take a break right now.

01:39:21   Really?

01:39:22   What kind of music are you going to play?

01:39:23   You're going to write something for me?

01:39:24   You'll find out.

01:39:25   We'll find out.

01:39:26   Oh, okay.

01:39:27   All right.

01:39:28   I'll be back.

01:39:29   Are you serious?

01:39:30   Can we do this?

01:39:31   Are you really going to do this?

01:39:32   Yeah, let's do it.

01:39:33   It could be a funny bit, too.

01:39:34   It's fucking great, John.

01:39:35   You're going to feel so good.

01:39:36   Come back at half past?

01:39:37   Half past.

01:39:38   Perfect.

01:39:39   Oh, half past.

01:39:40   Oh, that long.

01:39:41   All right.

01:39:42   Here.

01:39:43   Well, that's 15 minutes.

01:39:44   That'll be 15 minutes, right?

01:39:45   You can go shorter, but you're kind of still in the spirit of the break.

01:39:48   Yeah, let's do it.

01:39:49   All right.

01:39:50   I don't know where you go and slap the baseball stake out of your mouth.

01:39:53   All right.

01:39:54   All right.

01:39:55   I'm actually going to hang up then, right?

01:39:56   Oh, I'm totally hanging up.

01:39:57   Don't worry about that.

01:39:58   All right.

01:39:59   Hanging up.

01:40:00   All right.

01:40:01   All right.

01:40:02   Half past.

01:40:03   Half past.

01:40:04   Half past.

01:40:05   Half past.

01:40:06   Yeah.

01:40:07   Oh.

01:40:08   My majesty's a pretty nice girl, but she doesn't have a lot to say.

01:40:09   My majesty's a pretty nice girl, but she changes from day to day.

01:40:10   I want to change her life, but she doesn't have a lot to say.

01:40:11   My majesty's a pretty nice girl, but she changes from day to day.

01:40:15   I want to tell her that I love her a lot, but I got a belly full of wine.

01:40:19   My majesty's a pretty nice girl.

01:40:22   Someday I'm going to make a mine.

01:40:24   Oh, yeah.

01:40:25   Someday I'm going to make a mine.

01:40:26   How'd you like your break?

01:40:29   I thought that was delightful, but I have two issues.

01:40:33   First issue is it was so rejuvenating.

01:40:35   Now I'm worried we're going to go too long, right?

01:40:37   Oh, don't worry about that.

01:40:38   Right?

01:40:39   I have a speculation in my Slack here about how long this may go.

01:40:45   Now the problem two.

01:40:46   Snell, Alex is predicting a record setter, and I said, "God, I hope not because John

01:40:50   talked about starting a steakhouse for an hour."

01:40:53   And Snell, in his wisdom, is talking about the ways that he's been introducing this with

01:41:00   his shows.

01:41:01   You're worried we're going to lose our momentum.

01:41:02   See, I feel like we come back refreshed.

01:41:04   Oh, no.

01:41:05   I'm not worried about losing momentum.

01:41:06   I'm worried that...

01:41:07   No, a fresh drink, new glass, new ice, new tea.

01:41:11   I'm worried that now we've got too much gas, right?

01:41:14   That the limiting factor, the thing that actually makes this show ever come to an end, especially

01:41:19   when you and I are on a roll...

01:41:21   Yeah, I know.

01:41:22   I won't talk.

01:41:23   I'm sorry.

01:41:24   You know, too long...

01:41:25   I should have been a youth minister or something.

01:41:29   Too long.

01:41:30   I love playing guitar.

01:41:31   Too long doesn't really come up on this show too often.

01:41:34   Jesus.

01:41:35   No, problem number two is I went upstairs and my wife, number one, she thought it was

01:41:42   kind of remarkable that we were done already because she was expecting a long one.

01:41:46   Oh, my sweet summer child.

01:41:47   And I said, "Oh, no.

01:41:48   We're taking a break."

01:41:49   It was Merlin's idea.

01:41:52   And then she started asking me...

01:41:54   She's given me a laundry list of topics to talk about.

01:41:58   And I said, "Well, we didn't get to get back yet."

01:42:02   And so is she reinvigorated to storm in?

01:42:07   Oh, she's very excited.

01:42:09   But anyway, we wanted to talk about the Beatles' "Get Back" documentary, Peter Jackson's...

01:42:15   Oh, before we get there, I wanted to say this to you.

01:42:18   You sent me a beautiful picture of your beverages.

01:42:22   You've got the nice ice maker, don't you?

01:42:24   Yeah, yeah.

01:42:25   I mean, I know there's currently a certain amount of backlash about Little Pellet Ice,

01:42:32   but I love it.

01:42:33   It's probably the best Christmas gift I ever got.

01:42:37   What's the backlash?

01:42:38   What's the backlash?

01:42:39   People like to...

01:42:40   You know, everybody's got to have a strong opinion about everything.

01:42:43   And you know, "Fam, we need to talk about tiny ice.

01:42:45   It's not that good."

01:42:46   "Man, wow, I like baseball ice.

01:42:49   Man."

01:42:50   All that kind of stuff.

01:42:51   But I love it.

01:42:52   And it's a source of ice for me, which means that, in this case, you can see I'm having

01:42:56   a cold brew coffee on ice.

01:42:59   I'm having an iced tea on ice, and I got a can of fizzy water.

01:43:07   And it's changed the game because it also means it can bring ice to the house.

01:43:10   Because our ice maker's a little bit anemic.

01:43:14   I love it, John.

01:43:15   I love it so much.

01:43:17   It's not for everybody, but it's really changed.

01:43:20   And I don't have to order ice from Instacart like a monster.

01:43:23   I forget her last name.

01:43:25   Helen, the food writer at The New Yorker, had a lovely little article about pellet ice

01:43:30   sometime this summer.

01:43:33   And the thing that had never occurred to me, I realized, is one of these things that I have

01:43:38   been a fan of it my entire life, but I really hadn't given it...

01:43:42   It's one of those things we were just talking about earlier.

01:43:44   It's not for everything.

01:43:46   It's really good for fizzy drinks, and it does melt fast.

01:43:49   It's probably not ideal for a drink where I would not put it in a glass of your...

01:43:55   What's his name?

01:43:56   Pappy McDaniel's or whatever?

01:43:57   I would not put this in a Fonzie drink.

01:44:00   But Helen...

01:44:01   Oh, I think I know who you meet.

01:44:03   Rosner?

01:44:04   Yes, Helen Rosner.

01:44:05   I enjoyed her.

01:44:06   She had a wonderful thing about the pellet ice.

01:44:08   The thing I didn't realize until I read her article about it, though, is I've always known

01:44:13   the type of ice that pellet ice is, but I just assumed it was chip-chopped.

01:44:17   That you would...

01:44:18   Oh, that you start with gross, grand ice and break it down like you would on a chain gang.

01:44:25   That you would make regular ice cubes, and then the pellet maker was a thing that you

01:44:29   put ice cubes in.

01:44:31   That's totally reasonable to assume.

01:44:33   And then a coffee grinder spits out the chip-chopped ice, but that's not how pellet ice is made.

01:44:40   Pellet ice, you put water in, and it's a machine...

01:44:44   It's a signed pellet at birth.

01:44:46   And it's made... it's like rings of a tree, where there's a little bit of ice, and then

01:44:51   a new layer of ice forms around that layer of ice, and then a new layer of ice forms

01:44:55   around that layer of ice.

01:44:57   And that's why pellet ice is entirely different than any other ice you can get.

01:45:03   I believe that perhaps the biggest national chain that serves pellet ice might be Sonic.

01:45:10   Do you have the Sonic out in California?

01:45:13   I've been to Sonic, but I know what you're talking about.

01:45:16   It's also the kind of ice they give to pregnant ladies in the hospital.

01:45:19   Yes, it is.

01:45:20   It's a little bit soft.

01:45:21   Yes, yes.

01:45:22   That's actually...

01:45:23   I mean, it's okay for us to like things.

01:45:25   Also, I know we don't have time, but I did end notes, I did slip in.

01:45:28   When I do make seltzer at home, I generally prefer the cans because it's just easier,

01:45:35   but I'm off the SodaStream.

01:45:38   I don't hate it, but it just became too costly and annoying.

01:45:42   But you know what I will suggest?

01:45:43   I put a thing in your document if you're looking for a change.

01:45:46   I don't know if I've sold you on this before, but what is it?

01:45:50   It's the...

01:45:51   Let me find it here.

01:45:53   It's the...

01:45:54   Oh, yeah.

01:45:55   It's the Ease ISI.

01:45:56   Ease C Classic Mesh Soda Maker for making carbonating beverages one quart stainless steel.

01:46:00   And it's like a thing a clown shoots you with.

01:46:02   And it's a real fun way.

01:46:04   It's a real fun and quiet as a church mouse.

01:46:07   You can make seltzer right in your home without the...

01:46:12   You can still make it as fizzy as you want.

01:46:13   I'm off the SodaStream as well.

01:46:16   This is as good a time as ever to talk about it.

01:46:21   I have nothing against the brand, but my second one broke.

01:46:27   I don't know how, but it's both of them after years of service.

01:46:32   But after the second one broke, I just never re-bought it.

01:46:37   It's expensive to get all those.

01:46:40   Of course, I have a spreadsheet about it, so I know how expensive it gets.

01:46:43   And then you got to return them, and it's a whole thing.

01:46:46   This you get...

01:46:47   You ever done whip it?

01:46:48   No, don't answer that.

01:46:49   We've filled it off.

01:46:50   Of course, you huff.

01:46:52   But you get those little...

01:46:54   It's like a whip it, and you put it in, and it's CO2, and you make the water, and you

01:46:58   shake it, and that's it.

01:47:00   You're done.

01:47:01   And you got a quart of seltzer.

01:47:04   The other factor, the deciding factor, is that we got turned on.

01:47:08   There's a brand.

01:47:09   I've mentioned them on the show before.

01:47:10   Howl's New York Seltzer.

01:47:12   Oh, is this the super fizzy one?

01:47:14   It is the fizziest.

01:47:15   I think I tried to find it after you mentioned it.

01:47:18   I think Marco talked about it too.

01:47:20   It just burns.

01:47:21   It's so hard, right?

01:47:22   That's where we first got it, is we were vacationing with the arments up there in the beach...

01:47:30   Whatever, beach town.

01:47:31   I forget the name of the place, but wherever it is.

01:47:34   We were up there, and they had this Howl's New York Fizzy Water.

01:47:37   And it was like, "Well, I just figured it was regular seltzer water, and I had some."

01:47:42   And it's like instantly, it's like Winston Wolf in Pulp Fiction when he takes a sip of

01:47:46   the coffee, and in the midst of trying to clean up this terrible gun hack...

01:47:51   He talks fast, and he drives fast, and he likes the fizzy water.

01:47:54   But even he notices...

01:47:55   If he seems current with you, it's because he just wants to get that fizz happening.

01:47:59   Yeah.

01:48:00   He's ready to go and needs to get this mess cleaned up.

01:48:04   He takes a sip of that coffee, does a double-take, and says, "Hey, that's good coffee."

01:48:08   That's what I thought with this Howl's New York Seltzer, where I was just thinking, "I'm

01:48:11   sure it's fine."

01:48:12   But it's actually like, "Whoa, this is something special."

01:48:16   And that's the thing with the SodaStream, is I would make my seltzer with the SodaStream

01:48:22   much more fizzy than typical...

01:48:24   We talked about this, Jon.

01:48:26   I'm pushing the envelope on fizz.

01:48:27   I'm telling you right now, if you can get your hands on it, it's hard to get.

01:48:31   They're online retail partners.

01:48:33   I buy it from a place called Oasis Snacks.

01:48:36   Oh, I see it on there.

01:48:38   10% off uses code.

01:48:39   Okay.

01:48:40   All right.

01:48:41   Well, okay.

01:48:42   All right.

01:48:43   So...

01:48:44   I'm so sorry.

01:48:45   I'm sorry you ever met me.

01:48:48   All right.

01:48:49   Number one, their original, which is just plain unflavored, is just fantastic plain seltzer

01:48:54   water.

01:48:55   You can put it however you want.

01:48:58   Making cocktails with soda water or something like that is fine.

01:49:01   But the black cherry is sort of a...

01:49:04   It's in the Dr. Pepper field of the pie chart.

01:49:08   It's slightly pruney.

01:49:10   It never gets old, though.

01:49:11   It's like, we've been drinking it for years, and sometimes we'll mix in some various other

01:49:15   flavors.

01:49:16   But the black cherry, it's like the greatest thing ever.

01:49:19   But A, it's fizzier than even the SodaStream would allow me to make it.

01:49:23   And I think that's why I broke my SodaStream is it's like I pumped it up so much.

01:49:28   It's like a bottle...

01:49:29   You abused it.

01:49:30   Yeah.

01:49:31   I abused it.

01:49:32   I don't know what they're doing up there at the Hal's factory to get that much carbonation

01:49:35   into their beverage.

01:49:37   But I mean, you can leave one open overnight and forget to put the cap back on the bottle.

01:49:43   And then you come down in the morning, and there's still half of a Hal's there.

01:49:46   If there's a brand of seltzer that produces Chuck Norris-style anecdotes, I will be ordering

01:49:52   that please and thank you.

01:49:53   But you can have one that had been left out overnight and gotten flat.

01:49:58   It's still fizzier than most brands of pre-carbonated seltzer water.

01:50:03   Anyway, it's really good stuff.

01:50:05   And that's really what got me off the SodaStream is I can't beat it.

01:50:09   Can't beat them joint.

01:50:10   Anyway, I want to talk to you about the Get Back documentary.

01:50:18   I saw one bad review.

01:50:20   Did you see this?

01:50:21   The Guardian was like, it's like meandering.

01:50:24   You'll lose your mind in Peter Jackson's meandering eight-hour Get Back documentary.

01:50:28   I'm like...

01:50:29   I'm no Amy Jane, but I have a lot to say about opinions like that.

01:50:34   Like I say, everybody should think what they think.

01:50:36   But if you watch this and didn't get how important it is that it be what you consider long or

01:50:41   boring, you miss the point.

01:50:44   The very point of this is it's not, and he says this in the title card at the beginning,

01:50:50   I think in kind of a cool way, which is like, yeah, anytime you make something, you have

01:50:53   to make editing decisions.

01:50:54   We did our best to make this portray what we saw happening.

01:50:59   And my biggest takeaway from so much of this was facial expressions, body language, so

01:51:04   much stuff that you wouldn't get if you edited this within an inch of its life to make it

01:51:09   entertaining.

01:51:10   So let me just say this up front.

01:51:12   We will talk technically what you would call spoilers.

01:51:15   We're going to talk about what we saw.

01:51:17   But it is sort of spoiler-proof.

01:51:19   Like if you were watching, if you're watching a movie called The Hindenburg, you already

01:51:23   know how it ends, right?

01:51:25   You knew how Titanic ended, right?

01:51:26   It was the biggest blockbuster movie of all time.

01:51:28   I mean, the perfect example is All the President's Men, another movie that by today's standards,

01:51:33   well, it contains some pretty big spoilers for 1972, but it also is the kind of movie

01:51:38   you wouldn't see today.

01:51:40   It's a procedural.

01:51:41   It's very, very slow, and it gives you the feeling of what it meant to like Ben Bradlee

01:51:46   as he was right on the bubble about like this, but like go show your work.

01:51:51   Do this.

01:51:52   Go do the shoe leather reporting, which is what makes it such a terrific movie.

01:51:56   I, so you, again, if you really want to, and you're out there listening, and you've had

01:52:02   Let Get Back on your list, and you don't want to listen to us talk about it, you can pause

01:52:06   the show and wait and come back.

01:52:08   But I would say to you, I read a couple reviews beforehand.

01:52:12   They spoiled certain scenes, and it doesn't matter.

01:52:16   It's a spoiler.

01:52:17   Like there's a famous bit in the first of the three segments where Paul's wearing a yellow

01:52:23   shirt and he's playing the Hoffner bass, and he kind of plucks his way towards something

01:52:27   that you're now familiar with, and it is more fun to go into that kind of not knowing about

01:52:32   it.

01:52:33   Right, but it's unbelievable.

01:52:35   The other thing too, I will say this.

01:52:39   Peter Jackson is not my favorite director, and I'm on the record famously in our nerd

01:52:44   sphere.

01:52:45   I despised The Fellowship of the Rings.

01:52:48   I despised it at a level that was so profound.

01:52:51   I liked nine of the thirteen endings.

01:52:54   I really did not like it.

01:52:55   Is this movie ever going to end?

01:52:57   This is a true story.

01:52:59   My lovely wife, we went to the theater to see Fellowship of the Ring, and I didn't like

01:53:05   it.

01:53:06   She disliked it so much that halfway through she fished through her purse to find a sleeping

01:53:11   pill.

01:53:12   Ah, that's my wife in Last Night in Soho.

01:53:14   I've never seen her so angry at a movie and at me for loving it.

01:53:20   She was so goddamn angry.

01:53:21   There's exactly one funny tweet about this, about Get Back, that I did think was funny.

01:53:27   And you know, funny's funny.

01:53:29   And the person said, "Peter Jackson is the only director where I would like to see an

01:53:33   editor's cut."

01:53:34   Let me say this.

01:53:40   I'm not a fan of Peter Jackson's body of work is fiction.

01:53:43   All of this stuff is really, really terrific.

01:53:45   It's obviously, he cared a lot.

01:53:47   I can see that he's clearly talented, but his style of fictional narrative filmmaking

01:53:53   is not to my liking.

01:53:54   He loves-- Did you see his World War I movie?

01:53:58   I don't think I did.

01:53:59   I think that's him, yeah, where he got colorized footage of World War I.

01:54:04   Oh, yeah, that's another one that's a documentary.

01:54:06   Now I'm way more interested in watching it now that I've seen this.

01:54:09   What he did with this footage, I think that-- So the basic backstory is everybody should

01:54:15   know.

01:54:16   I never saw it.

01:54:17   We talked about it before we started recording.

01:54:18   I have not seen the original Let It Be documentary because I was always told it was terrible,

01:54:24   that it was dreadful and depressing and just not entertaining.

01:54:29   And so-- It's certainly not the way that one would,

01:54:33   if you are a Beatles fan, which I 1000% am, I'm sewing the bag for the Beatles in a way

01:54:38   that's just excruciatingly boring, white, and middle-aged, but it's certainly not the

01:54:44   way you would want to remember them.

01:54:46   It's not like Glenn Howerton talking about seeing the dead body at a funeral.

01:54:50   Like, do you really want to remember the person this way?

01:54:54   And I don't think we have time for that.

01:54:56   But you know what I mean?

01:54:58   It's very dreary.

01:54:59   That is a great analogy, though, right?

01:55:02   That is true, that the last time you see your-- Well, everybody's different.

01:55:05   And people need that closure, and other people are going to be like, no, I'd rather remember

01:55:09   grandma not wearing a wig and a box.

01:55:13   Yeah.

01:55:14   No, it's an important moment.

01:55:16   The one I remember very vividly was when my dad's dad died in, I believe, 1991.

01:55:21   I think it was a senior in high school.

01:55:24   And my dad had a brother and a sister, and everybody was there, and we had a funeral.

01:55:29   And my grandfather lived to be-- I think he was 89.

01:55:31   I mean, nice long life.

01:55:34   Yeah.

01:55:35   But my dad was a blubbering mess.

01:55:38   And his brother, my uncle-- I thought my aunt, my dad's sister, would be the one who was

01:55:44   a mess.

01:55:45   And she was super close.

01:55:46   But my dad was the one who really was just a blubbering mess, and he was the last one

01:55:51   out of the room, and said goodbye to him like he could hear him.

01:55:57   But I could see.

01:55:59   Everybody grieves differently.

01:56:00   You should not police these things.

01:56:02   And I just remember being 17 and being sort of a jerk, because I was 17.

01:56:07   And I wasn't a jerk about going to the funeral, but I was sort of annoyed.

01:56:12   It was like clear-- he didn't die as a surprise.

01:56:15   It was like, ugh, now I got to go to a funeral.

01:56:18   But I remember being blown away by that moment and thinking-- because I loved my dad so much,

01:56:22   and I just remember like, hey, that was a moment.

01:56:24   That was a thing.

01:56:26   And then we all went out to eat afterwards, and my dad-- his mood was suddenly better,

01:56:31   right?

01:56:32   But that's what I've always heard of Let It Be, that Let It Be is like that.

01:56:35   And it's pretty difficult to find these days.

01:56:39   I think it's probably out of print.

01:56:40   My two quickies, my Syracuse and opening statement, just a quick two-parter, is that first-- I

01:56:46   mean, yes.

01:56:48   So the Let It Be movie-- well, let me just first say this.

01:56:51   I wish this had come out around the time of Tiger King, or I wish that it had come out

01:56:57   around the time of when I first got obsessed with Tim Robinson's I Think You Should Leave

01:57:02   show, which is-- those are some favorite finds.

01:57:05   Because during lockdown, you wanted stuff to do.

01:57:08   This would have been-- and I know, should have, but didn't have.

01:57:10   It would have been so neat to have had this to pour over for months when I didn't have

01:57:15   anything else to do, rather than trying to like, in this case, last night, jamming in

01:57:19   the whole last episode because I wanted to visit with you.

01:57:24   I would really rather have taken my time with this.

01:57:27   And it is the kind of movie-- one doesn't want to be unkind-- it's the kind of movie

01:57:31   that I yell at my family about, where I'm like, just put down your goddamn phone and

01:57:34   please watch this.

01:57:35   Uh-huh.

01:57:36   Because-- and not even this in particular, but there's so many things where you really

01:57:39   need to-- it's a visual medium that we're looking at here.

01:57:43   And just at the very least, you're going to miss a lot in the J Random movie if you're

01:57:49   playing Genshin Impact.

01:57:52   But in this instance, a lot of information is well and tastefully conveyed through--

01:57:59   not intercards, but text on the screen.

01:58:02   Not in a Avengers, oh, we're on-- or like Star Wars, we're on this planet kind of annoying

01:58:08   way.

01:58:09   But in a-- but he'll say, at this point, just so you know, they have this many days left

01:58:14   and they can't get that venue or whatever.

01:58:16   Just explaining background stuff that you can luxuriate in the relationships you're

01:58:21   watching play out with enough information to understand how the valence just changed

01:58:25   in a way that would not be obvious unless you were there.

01:58:28   OK?

01:58:29   So you-- I mean, if you don't want to watch it, it's fine.

01:58:32   Like, just go do your thing.

01:58:33   But like, if you're not going to really pay attention to this as somebody who's steeped

01:58:36   in Beatlesdom, well, you know, don't be too flustered about us getting the thing we've

01:58:40   craved forever.

01:58:41   Second and super importantly, to your point, when the trailer or the-- whatever the early

01:58:46   trailer, the long, like, early trailer came out a few months ago, I instantly knew it

01:58:52   was going to be my shit for the reason you just stated, which is I've seen Let It Be.

01:58:56   I've watched it all the way through probably once, and it's really not fun to watch.

01:59:04   It's like watching a movie about divorce.

01:59:07   And it's really-- it is really sad, but like, seeing that footage of John Lennon dancing

01:59:12   with Yoko or dancing with Paul, seeing John Lennon in the late '60s, whatever his chemical

01:59:19   and emotional situation was, he's obviously utterly charming.

01:59:25   And wait a minute, did that guy just not have any of this footage?

01:59:30   Because Let It Be is dreary.

01:59:31   It's mostly-- it's mostly at Twickenham.

01:59:34   It's mostly at the cold, terrible place.

01:59:37   And I sent you the screenshots of the famous, very famous scene of George saying, Paul,

01:59:42   play whatever you want.

01:59:43   If you don't want me to play, I won't play at all.

01:59:45   I'll do whatever pleases you.

01:59:46   And that basically is the tone of the movie.

01:59:49   Paul is a hectoring asshole.

01:59:51   Yoko is a cold, manipulative bitch.

01:59:55   I'm sorry, I would not say that about a person, but that's the tone of that movie.

02:00:00   Everybody hates-- obviously hates being there, and it's utterly bereft of any feeling that

02:00:05   these guys in this job have any affection for what they're doing, let alone for each

02:00:13   other.

02:00:14   So when that early trailer came out and it looked-- the footage looks so crisp and beautiful,

02:00:19   and I immediately thought, oh my gosh, I've got to see this because I want to wash that

02:00:24   out of my mind.

02:00:25   I put a link-- I have a final thing on this.

02:00:26   I put a link in the doc to-- I'm sure you've heard it from one of the anthologies.

02:00:31   And there's a super interesting second take with a different arrangement of "And Your

02:00:35   Bird Can Sing," this much more Rickenbacker 12-string power pop kind of feeling.

02:00:42   And when you listen to it-- even my kid from the age of three, when we would listen to

02:00:45   this, would go like, they're high, aren't they?

02:00:47   And I'd say, I think John and Paul are a little bit high because they're trying to do the

02:00:51   backup vocals for "And Your Bird Can Sing," and the thing completely falls apart.

02:00:55   So that would be 66.

02:00:58   Until this week, in my head, in my head canon, I've always kind of figured-- I've always

02:01:04   had a real warmth for that outtake because you can tell they're still having fun, even

02:01:09   if they're high or whatever.

02:01:10   They're making "Revolver."

02:01:13   And I've always thought in my head, I'll bet that's the last time that the band, but especially--

02:01:19   I bet that might be the last time we ever hear John and Paul kind of not hating what

02:01:25   they're doing and not feeling-- and then us as the listener or viewer-- not feeling just

02:01:32   this gut-wrenching sense of nobody wants to be here.

02:01:36   So us who have sought out "Let It Be" and watched it and been sad about it-- just to

02:01:42   be clear, "Let It Be" is up there with "Magical Mystery Tour" as easily my least favorite

02:01:46   Beatles album, just to get that out of the way.

02:01:49   Oh, boy, there's four or five other Beatles albums-- every other Beatles album I would

02:01:54   put above this, including the one they recorded after "Ivy Road," which we'll get to.

02:01:58   But it was such a salve for me to see that trailer because, yeah, I'm excited to see

02:02:03   this, but also to go like, oh, my gosh, maybe the last photo of Grandpa doesn't have to

02:02:09   be him dead in a box.

02:02:12   And so I went into this with a fairly jubilant idea.

02:02:14   I had no idea it was going to be this long or this exhaustive.

02:02:18   And you could be forgiven for thinking this director and his team just took every stitch

02:02:24   of footage they had and just shat it onto a digital device.

02:02:30   But no, there's a lot of good filmmaking in this.

02:02:35   But you are going to have to sit with it and appreciate what it is rather than what you

02:02:39   think it should be.

02:02:41   You need to literally let it be.

02:02:43   That is so well said.

02:02:44   I agree with every word of that.

02:02:45   My preconception coming into it was slightly informed by my general distaste for Peter

02:02:51   Jackson's films.

02:02:53   And I sort of thought, OK, sure, the trailer does--

02:02:56   Why doesn't the eagle just carry them?

02:02:57   The trailer looks amazing.

02:02:59   But my gut feeling was, look, if they made this movie back then and it was sort of dreadful

02:03:05   and nobody really has any affinity for it and it was two hours-ish, I don't know how

02:03:11   long-- what was the running time to let it be?

02:03:13   Probably like--

02:03:14   I can look it up.

02:03:15   I think it's fairly brisk.

02:03:16   Yeah, it's probably under two hours.

02:03:18   But it's--

02:03:19   And the copies that you can get-- like I've got, I think, what was a DVD copy.

02:03:22   And it's real muddy.

02:03:24   But if you just think about-- imagine the scenes in Twickenham, like when they're in

02:03:27   that-- when they're bright clothes that somebody's obviously picked out for them.

02:03:30   When they're at Twickenham and they're in that horrible room.

02:03:33   Now imagine that, except it's-- the print is muddy.

02:03:37   It's mostly just them being sad.

02:03:39   The crazy room with the weird wall wash lights?

02:03:42   Yeah, the wall-- yeah, yeah.

02:03:44   Or Mal's going and he puts up the drum head and all that.

02:03:46   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:03:47   But my gut feeling-- and I think this-- I don't think this was unreasonable, but I thought

02:03:52   if originally they made a pretty dreary two-hour movie, what are the odds that an eight-hour

02:03:58   cut is going to be better?

02:04:01   So I get it with Peter Jackson too.

02:04:04   Like, we're people who love the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

02:04:07   And I know that people do.

02:04:09   And you know, no accounting for taste and the fact that I don't like them doesn't mean

02:04:11   I think they're bad movies.

02:04:12   I just-- they're not my style.

02:04:14   But I get it--

02:04:15   But they're very ambitious.

02:04:16   But I get it.

02:04:17   And I admire that.

02:04:18   I get it though why somebody who loved the theatrical versions, just loved them, that

02:04:23   they were over the moon when Peter Jackson released a 30-hour cut of the whole thing.

02:04:28   You know, it's like, "Oh, just give me more.

02:04:29   Give me all of it.

02:04:30   Give me the 30-hour version."

02:04:32   I thought that that was what this was.

02:04:34   You know, it's the four times longer version of Let It Be, whereas instead it is altogether

02:04:40   different.

02:04:41   It's like the most amazing thing is this footage was shot and it's been sitting in the can

02:04:46   for 50 years.

02:04:47   Yeah, it was like over 100 hours of audio, but I think it was 50 hours of footage, something

02:04:52   like that.

02:04:53   What other miracles like this are out there sitting in cans around the world, right?

02:04:58   There's the Orson Welles movie that never came out.

02:05:02   Oh, Chimes of Midnight?

02:05:03   Uh, something with the wind or-- I don't know.

02:05:06   Oh, yeah, I know what you mean.

02:05:07   But one of his lost movies.

02:05:09   Right.

02:05:10   And then, supposedly, they burnt the negative or something like that.

02:05:12   And you know, but it's almost like infinite jest.

02:05:19   You know, it's like mythical that this thing is just out there, has been out there ready

02:05:25   to be found and discovered.

02:05:28   And I think that the way that-- I will just say this-- the way that Peter Jackson put

02:05:32   this together and to fish through-- now that I've seen this eight-hour movie, I can imagine

02:05:41   what the 50 hours of footage were roughly like, you know, just as a general idea.

02:05:46   To put this-- Well, a lot of it was probably regarded as

02:05:49   unusable.

02:05:50   I know.

02:05:51   And some of my favorite parts are like-- eventually, yes, it does become tiresome, as I will opine

02:05:57   in the fullness of time.

02:05:59   I think the thing that we-- that maybe-- I don't-- one of the beautiful parts of this,

02:06:04   I feel like-- and by the way, the original is 80 minutes long, which I think wouldn't

02:06:07   even barely qualify it as a feature.

02:06:09   But the idea that-- and here's what it says.

02:06:13   So this is "Let It Be 1969" by Michael Lindsay Hogg, who is not Sir Dennis Eden Hogg.

02:06:19   "A documentary showing both how the Beatles made music together and how they split up--"

02:06:23   now get this-- "hundreds of hours of raw footage was condensed into the final product."

02:06:28   Well, that was an interesting series of choices, if he arrived at "Let It Be" from that footage.

02:06:32   And I'm not trying to drag the guy, but the-- I think there's a light hand at work here,

02:06:41   in credit to Mr. Jackson and his team, in that there's very much, like, pretty great

02:06:46   storytelling going on.

02:06:48   But it's-- in order to really get a feel for what makes this special and different, you

02:06:53   are going to have to sit with it, and you're going to have to have your heart open--

02:06:57   see, now I feel like I'm hectoring people.

02:06:59   I love this.

02:07:01   I'm glad it exists.

02:07:02   But I feel like you have to understand it in a certain context.

02:07:05   John, one of the great things that's included in this whatever-- you say eight hours, like,

02:07:09   that sounds about right-- one of the things that's great in this is the meta talk.

02:07:14   I'm certain-- I would have to imagine-- Michael Lindsay Hogg would never include in his movie,

02:07:18   which is talking about the process of what they're making right now, including the movie.

02:07:23   And the fact that-- I never really completely understood the hardness of that deadline,

02:07:28   you know, and that ubiquitous calendar starts to feel like the New York Times election needle

02:07:32   at a certain point.

02:07:33   We were like, oh, they got to do this, and they got to do that, and they got to-- why

02:07:35   did they put this pressure on themselves at this time?

02:07:37   That's so nuts.

02:07:39   But when you hear Paul and John-- really, all of them-- talking about decision making

02:07:46   about what should happen next and what we can do-- you know what I mean?

02:07:50   I think that's really valuable to know.

02:07:54   The other thing that's mind-blowing about it is there's a whole wing of the current

02:08:03   media industrial complex devoted to quote unquote "reality" shows, right?

02:08:10   Bravo is a very popular cable network, and all they do--

02:08:12   Bravo, Discovery, whatever happened to A&E in history?

02:08:16   It used to be Hitler and sharks.

02:08:19   And now it really is like drunk people in the Southeast being arrested.

02:08:23   Right, but this was not a thing back then of shooting real life as it happened.

02:08:29   That didn't really happen until the Loud family in the '70s.

02:08:32   Accumulating lots of footage and then making something interesting out of it in the editing

02:08:39   room, right?

02:08:40   That the editing room is literally where the creation of the final thing is happening.

02:08:45   Like there is no-- I've never seen anything like this that was shot prior to this footage

02:08:51   being shot.

02:08:52   I don't know what you-- I mean, there are certainly documentaries that were made prior

02:08:55   to 1968, but they weren't like this, right?

02:09:00   And oftentimes, documentaries are made after the fact.

02:09:03   You know, like let's document what happened at Pearl Harbor, you know, and you go back

02:09:07   and see this.

02:09:09   Like these filmmakers, the people who shot it, they captured these extraordinary moments

02:09:16   in the most humble way possible.

02:09:19   And--

02:09:20   Just how much do you fall in love with Kevin bringing tea and cigarettes?

02:09:23   Like how-- who would have guessed that?

02:09:24   But the reason I bring all this up, Jon, is that the point I'm struggling to make here

02:09:30   is that with an insight--

02:09:32   What?

02:09:33   Think about Kevin?

02:09:34   So much tea, so many cigarettes, cigarettes everywhere.

02:09:37   Now!

02:09:38   And it's like--

02:09:39   But it's valuable to understand that, Jon, because why?

02:09:43   Well, let's state the elephant in the room, which is I think especially Jon, but everybody

02:09:50   to an extent, they're on camera for a lot of this time and they want to be amusing.

02:09:56   These are the guys-- these are your beloved mop tops from Hard Day's Night and to a far

02:10:02   lesser extent, Help.

02:10:04   Like Hard Day's Night was-- boy, that's a special movie.

02:10:07   I don't know how much you can appreciate.

02:10:09   What a special movie.

02:10:10   He's a very clean old man.

02:10:12   Like that movie is unbelievable because you're like, "Oh my god, these guys are exactly as

02:10:16   hilarious as I would expect them to be."

02:10:18   They were always on.

02:10:19   They lived in public.

02:10:21   And so when Jon's shucking and jiving and playing Chuck Berry covers, I think he's trying

02:10:25   to like fill air and be amusing.

02:10:28   It's ironic that Paul gets the rap for being the one who's so bossy and mean.

02:10:31   And when it's like Jon who's utterly disrupting the whole thing, maybe he's trying to keep

02:10:35   it light, but I think they all also are realizing this camera is seeing everything that we're

02:10:40   doing.

02:10:41   People are watching the Beatles have a hard time.

02:10:43   I think that when they're just filling time and Jon is ripping through a Chuck Berry song

02:10:48   or like every once in a while, they just go back and they play one of their own old-- quote

02:10:53   unquote old songs.

02:10:55   And everybody knows this part.

02:10:56   Everybody knows that the trajectory of the Beatles from the moment they-- the lifespan

02:11:03   is ridiculously short.

02:11:04   I said this less than on Twitter.

02:11:06   The amount of time between Love Me Do and them breaking up is the equivalent of June

02:11:11   2014 till now.

02:11:13   They went from Love Me Do to the end.

02:11:15   Right.

02:11:16   Mind blown.

02:11:17   In six or seven years.

02:11:19   We all know that, but you kind of get a palpable sense of it though watching this when they

02:11:24   go back--

02:11:25   There's no Beatles before the Beatles.

02:11:26   The Beatles invented the Beatles.

02:11:31   Among the things that I would like to talk-- there's the basic story I've always been told

02:11:38   and the mythology-- every complicated story gets reduced to a sentence.

02:11:44   And the sentence is the Beatles broke up because of Yoko Ono.

02:11:50   And that they hated each-- by the end they hated each other and--

02:11:53   Who came in and deliberately quote unquote broke up the Beatles because she was not even

02:11:58   envious, jealous of John.

02:12:00   And she went in and deliberately-- again, this is a story.

02:12:03   This is all in air quotes here.

02:12:04   But we were raised to believe that this horrible Japanese woman was the one who undid this

02:12:09   group with her typical oriental villainy.

02:12:13   And I really think that's the story that we were told for the whole time.

02:12:18   Including the shot in the original movie when George quits and she goes and sits in his

02:12:22   chair.

02:12:23   Another very famous scene.

02:12:25   All that Yoko, she broke up the Beatles.

02:12:28   And it's so much more complicated than that.

02:12:31   You said it's almost like-- it is.

02:12:34   It's not almost like a movie about divorce.

02:12:37   This is a movie about divorce.

02:12:38   But this is not a divorce where they just hated each other, which is what I--

02:12:42   Just because you love each other doesn't mean you can be together forever.

02:12:44   And that's a sad adult fact.

02:12:47   Part of the trajectory of Get Back is you can see that the band is disintegrating.

02:12:52   And it certainly starts with George, at least in terms of what he says.

02:12:58   He's like, I'm just going to take a vacation.

02:12:59   I'm going to get out of here.

02:13:00   And he disappears and they don't know where he is.

02:13:02   He doesn't come back for a while.

02:13:05   He says it like he's going out to have a cigarette.

02:13:07   Well, I forget the exact line.

02:13:09   But he's like, yeah, well, I'm going to go now.

02:13:12   And so it is the story of the disintegration of this extraordinary group.

02:13:19   But they don't hate each other.

02:13:21   There is contention.

02:13:23   It is not-- they are disintegrating.

02:13:26   But it's so clear that they all love each other, truly love each other.

02:13:31   Especially as it goes on and you see-- just again, I can't get away from those shots of

02:13:35   just like John looking at Paul and listening to what he's saying and nodding and Paul listening

02:13:44   to what George is saying and nodding.

02:13:47   And you can see that they're not just civil with each other, but they generally want to

02:13:53   hear each other out and try and find a solution that'll work for everybody, even when the

02:13:57   friction is really rough.

02:13:58   They're so kind to each other.

02:14:00   There's an extraordinary moment.

02:14:02   One of the moments that truly brought tears to my eyes-- I'm tearing up just thinking

02:14:06   about it-- is one of the many stresses involved here is that The Beatles clearly-- everybody

02:14:13   knows.

02:14:14   That songs are all Lennon-McCartney and it was John and Paul's band, right?

02:14:18   Oh, you're talking about Ringo and George?

02:14:20   Well, a couple things about Ringo and George.

02:14:23   But number two, we do know this from the rest of his life, that George Harrison was an extraordinary

02:14:30   guitar player, songwriter, and sad--

02:14:35   He had such an eye for talent and arrangement and all those things, but he lived-- in The

02:14:40   Beatles, he lived as-- the same way that Ringo would always be the new guy, George would

02:14:44   always be the little brother.

02:14:46   And he got to have one song-- every time they'd do an album, there'd be a George song.

02:14:51   And he goes to John and he says, "Hey, you know, I'm really feeling--" I'm paraphrasing,

02:14:58   but "I've been really productive and I've got a bunch of really good songs.

02:15:03   And I know my role is I'm going to get one song on an album, but I've got some really

02:15:08   good stuff here.

02:15:10   I'm thinking what I would like to do is do an album on my own."

02:15:13   And John says, "Oh my God, George, that is a wonderful idea.

02:15:17   You should do that because this is good stuff.

02:15:19   You should."

02:15:20   You know?

02:15:21   And that's so contrary to the narrative of John Lennon as the selfish bastard, especially

02:15:27   towards the end, right?

02:15:29   Like in the latter--

02:15:30   Oh, absolutely.

02:15:31   And he means--

02:15:32   Because things are loosening up and-- but like there's some of the-- John had a fierce

02:15:37   sense of humor and was, I think, as the real heads know, was frequently taken deeply out

02:15:43   of context because there was no context.

02:15:45   I mean, in the case of "We're Bigger Than Jesus Christ," that continues to be one of

02:15:49   the most ridiculous desktop cyber.

02:15:50   I was saying to my daughter while we were watching this, like, it's so brutal that the

02:15:55   very point that John was trying to make in that remark, when you take it out of context,

02:16:00   it sounds like he's saying the opposite of what he's saying.

02:16:03   Oh, so true.

02:16:04   What he's saying is, "We're bigger than Jesus Christ," and that's crazy.

02:16:06   Right, that's wrong.

02:16:07   This isn't-- that's not the way it should be.

02:16:09   We're just these four lads from Liverpool playing rock and roll.

02:16:13   But with context, you appreciate so much more about his almost compulsive need to make silly

02:16:21   faces and like you can tell he's not comfortable with himself.

02:16:25   He's just a jealous guy.

02:16:26   Like he-- you know what I mean?

02:16:28   And there's that one part that's just audio where he's just really being very raw in a

02:16:32   way that would come out, you know, obviously in stuff like, again, like "Jealous Guy" or

02:16:37   stuff like, you know, a song about his mom.

02:16:39   But like you can tell he's a really damaged guy and he's dancing to keep from crying.

02:16:47   And I think fundamentally that's the-- the Fisher that started the breakup was John.

02:16:52   And it wasn't that Yoko broke up the Beatles, it was John, ultimately.

02:16:56   And maybe it would have happened anyway.

02:16:58   You think?

02:16:59   There's also stuff about like when they-- stuff like Paul, every-- Paul's the one who--

02:17:05   John's seen as, from the outside at the 101 level, John is always seen as the really extreme

02:17:12   guy who brought in all the crazy stuff, number nine, number nine.

02:17:15   But the truth is that Paul was the one who was bringing in a lot of continental culture.

02:17:20   He's the one that was dating fucking Jane Asher.

02:17:22   He was the one that's going to all the cool parties.

02:17:25   He's the one that's bringing in musique concrete, like maybe not to a Zappa level, but he's

02:17:30   bringing in a lot of very interesting stuff.

02:17:32   And the truth is John was the rock and roll guy.

02:17:35   It-- yeah, but, you know, it's just not simple.

02:17:37   It's so multivariate.

02:17:38   And each-- each of the-- well, of John Paul and George had their things that were creatively

02:17:45   different.

02:17:46   The other thing that I have to talk about is Ringo, who comes across amazingly well.

02:17:53   I love the guy.

02:17:54   I mean, if you don't want to hug Ringo Starr--

02:17:56   Don't you want to be friends with him?

02:17:57   Oh my god.

02:17:58   Like, wouldn't it be amazing to show up-- you show up at Drexler and, like, you go and

02:18:01   he goes, "Oh, how's it going?

02:18:02   Is it OK that I picked this bed?"

02:18:03   Like, he-- you can just tell he's-- he's like a really decent guy.

02:18:06   Like, when he goes and gets a cookie and holds it up to the camera and you're like, "God,

02:18:10   fucking Ringo, I love you so much."

02:18:12   But Ringo obviously saw what was happening around him.

02:18:15   And he could see it coming to an end.

02:18:16   And he's the one who really doesn't want this to end.

02:18:19   And Amy's note to me is that he looks constipated.

02:18:25   You said their faces, right?

02:18:26   But Ringo--

02:18:27   Which, through a lot of it, George and Ringo, who end up being, like, the sort of ad hoc

02:18:32   babysitters for these two idiots-- like, you can see both of them are just like, "We should

02:18:36   probably just play some songs."

02:18:38   But Ringo's got this, like, constipated, pained look.

02:18:41   He's the kid watching his parents divorce.

02:18:44   And he realizes it's happening before the parents do.

02:18:48   You know, he's-- and I think that's true.

02:18:53   Most people I know whose parents got divorced while they were kids, they knew it, right?

02:18:59   The kid knows it before the parents do, because--

02:19:03   They think they're pulling it off.

02:19:05   They're so not pulling it off.

02:19:06   Right, and they're not.

02:19:07   And Ringo sees it.

02:19:09   But Ringo's got this look like, "Man, this is-- we got a good thing going here."

02:19:14   You know what I mean?

02:19:15   Right.

02:19:16   But then also the story about when-- you know, and I don't know if you've-- you're probably

02:19:19   not as much of a dork as I am, but I've got all the, like, the anthology documentaries,

02:19:24   and when they release--

02:19:25   Oh, I do.

02:19:26   I've got the anthology albums.

02:19:28   I mean, that was-- I thought that was the last thing.

02:19:31   The video is actually-- if you look them up on iTunes, look at Apple Music, the documentaries

02:19:36   are included for each re-release, the 2009s.

02:19:39   And so you can see, for example, you can hear that wonderful story about, like, when he

02:19:42   quit, when Ringo quit during the White Album, and then they welcomed him back and said,

02:19:46   "Look, we do love you.

02:19:47   We do appreciate you.

02:19:48   We didn't appreciate you enough."

02:19:50   And George had covered his entire drum set in flowers.

02:19:53   It's amazing.

02:19:57   So George and Ringo, they're both amazing.

02:20:01   They're caught in this terrible-- and maybe it's so multivariate.

02:20:08   And the Beatles were never in equilibrium, right, that we talked about the fact that

02:20:12   they went from "Hard Day's Night" or whatever the first hit single in 1964--

02:20:16   "Love Me Do."

02:20:17   "Love Me Do."

02:20:18   '62 was "Love Me Do."

02:20:19   So "Love Me Do" to this, but there was never a point where they were in stasis, right?

02:20:25   And--

02:20:26   No, I mean, closest to that would be '67, which was a anis horribilis for the Beatles.

02:20:30   They lost Brian Epstein.

02:20:31   They had the whole thing with the sexy Sadie in India.

02:20:34   They went through all of this shit.

02:20:35   I think that's also-- I think that's when the Jesus Christ thing happened.

02:20:38   They had a terrible, terrible year.

02:20:41   I mean, you could maybe say that about "Magical Mystery Tour," but they reinvented them.

02:20:47   I mean, this is hagiographic, but they reinvented themselves every record.

02:20:50   They were never static at all.

02:20:52   Every band, with one very notable exception, every great band broke up.

02:20:58   And sometimes it was from tragedy, right?

02:21:01   Zeppelin broke up.

02:21:02   I don't think Zeppelin was long for the world, though, even if Bonham hadn't died in an accident.

02:21:09   Oh, I agree.

02:21:10   Yeah, "In Through the Outdoor" is a band that's obviously going a different direction.

02:21:15   Right.

02:21:16   I don't think they were long for the world.

02:21:18   I mean, maybe they would have gotten back together at some point in the '80s as Led

02:21:22   Zeppelin as opposed to Jimmy Page and Robert Plant or Page and Plant or whatever they toured

02:21:26   briefly for.

02:21:29   You know, The Who broke up.

02:21:30   Every band but The Stones broke up.

02:21:33   And The Stones are the exception, clearly not the norm.

02:21:37   It's the way that creativity works and the way that the type of people who can make good

02:21:41   rock and roll--

02:21:42   And the way that businesses work.

02:21:43   When the guy who leads the band has been scalped by Alan Klein and also has a degree in business,

02:21:50   they know how to treat that like a company.

02:21:53   So you know, I don't think The Beatles had a chance.

02:21:57   And you know, like, so let's just toss this out there as a hypothetical.

02:22:00   Let's say that John Lennon and Yoko Ono had never met.

02:22:05   Whatever the circumstances are that led to them meeting each other, you know, a butterfly

02:22:09   flapped its wings in China a decade before and they never even met.

02:22:14   I don't think The Beatles were going to make it anyway.

02:22:16   So the whole Yoko broke them up, and it comes across in this.

02:22:20   But, but, like many good stories--

02:22:24   She might have been a catalyst, but she wasn't the cause.

02:22:26   There is a kernel of truth there where she was a problematic presence in the studio.

02:22:33   Like, I sent you a screenshot from this a week ago where they're playing and she's reading

02:22:40   the newspaper in the most--

02:22:42   I love that.

02:22:43   --ostentatiously dismissive way.

02:22:46   And I think you quipped that she was like, "Checking the box scores."

02:22:49   Checking the box scores.

02:22:52   Very interested in the NL West.

02:22:53   But it's also like, ask yourself this.

02:22:56   Having watched this, ask yourself, who probably asked, nay, demanded that Yoko be there?

02:23:03   Like if you watched that 1969 movie, you might go, "Oh, obviously Yoko went in there so she

02:23:07   could exercise her dark arts."

02:23:09   But I feel every bit of confidence that John was like, "Please come in here and let me

02:23:14   literally lean on you."

02:23:15   Yep, yep, yep.

02:23:16   And he obviously--he needed her.

02:23:18   His mind was obsessed with her in a way that--it was him who wanted her there, and then she

02:23:26   was Yoko when she was there, which was weird.

02:23:29   But it's just so amazing.

02:23:30   Because we now in 2021 get the gift of seeing this remarkable footage and seeing some of

02:23:37   these songs that are part of our lizard brain at this point come together.

02:23:42   And she was literally not just in the room, but was granted the privilege of a seat right

02:23:48   next to John in the middle of the circle while they made it and read the newspaper.

02:23:53   And also, you must imagine at one point--and this is nothing against anybody, but toward

02:24:00   the end--I really want to talk about this.

02:24:02   I really want to talk about the wonderful scenes with Linda and Linda's daughter, who's

02:24:08   so cute.

02:24:09   But if anybody, man, woman, otherwise were in every shot, if you were the director, wouldn't

02:24:16   there be a point where you would go to Neil Aspinall or whatever and go, "Hey, do you

02:24:21   think you could talk to them about this person not being here all the time?"

02:24:28   No, seriously, think about that.

02:24:30   In retrospect, we look back and go, "Oh, we've all seen The Rutles.

02:24:33   We've all seen Mr. Show talk about the FAD 3.

02:24:35   We know all the jokes."

02:24:36   Of course, in The Rutles, the Yoko character is a woman dressed as a Nazi with a Hitler

02:24:41   mustache, which is very subtle.

02:24:43   But still funny, though.

02:24:45   Rutles is very funny.

02:24:46   I know.

02:24:47   But imagine any movie about the fucking Beatles.

02:24:49   Why is there another person here who's not involved?

02:24:54   It must have been really disruptive.

02:24:56   And uncomfortable.

02:24:58   And in other moments, it's so clear that they have a brother-like comfort with each other.

02:25:06   And here's this foreign person who-- Foreign in every sense.

02:25:12   Foreign in the sense of being what we now call international, gratefully, but also foreign

02:25:16   in the sense of she's a fly in the ointment.

02:25:20   And is not part of the Beatles at all.

02:25:23   And it's like having a splinter.

02:25:26   Your body knows that that splinter's not supposed to be there, and the skin gets red and irritated

02:25:31   around it because--

02:25:32   Oh, God.

02:25:33   It's so true.

02:25:34   It's horrible, but it's-- yeah.

02:25:38   It's just a foreign object that the body is--

02:25:40   It works so well for that story, though.

02:25:43   It works so well-- not this story, but the story of Yoko is the spanner in the works

02:25:50   who comes in and deliberately ends.

02:25:51   But it's-- yeah, I've had a whole list of these, of things that I came up believing

02:25:59   to be true that, at least in some part, this movie gave me so much context to see differently.

02:26:05   It's always broken my heart because I'm a Paul guy.

02:26:08   I mean, I love them all, but--

02:26:09   Yeah, I'm a Paul guy, too.

02:26:10   I mean, I really like--

02:26:11   I like-- we don't have time for this.

02:26:14   I love so much about Paul in general.

02:26:16   Yes, he became kind of annoying.

02:26:18   And why is he driving a boat in the documentary of the anthology?

02:26:21   Why is he looking through a window on a boat?

02:26:23   Like, hey, I'm going to do this school.

02:26:25   Let's go drive around in a boat.

02:26:27   OK, whatever.

02:26:29   But the story that you get out of the original and a story that has stuck to Paul in a way

02:26:35   that I've always felt-- well, at least made me feel icky-- is the whole, like, well, Paul's

02:26:39   the asshole who broke up the Beatles.

02:26:41   Paul's the one, now, we learned that didn't want to sign with Alan Klein, who, by the

02:26:45   way, totally ripped them off.

02:26:47   Same guy-- remember, he serves.

02:26:48   I think he's also the guy that made the Stones have to move to France.

02:26:52   Like, Alan Klein was not a good guy.

02:26:55   I mean, you know, Exile and Main Street are our favorite-- oh, I think it's yours, right?

02:26:58   Oh, yeah, without question.

02:26:59   Yeah, there'd be no rocks off without Alan Klein and heroin.

02:27:03   And-- but-- OK, so I'm a Paul guy.

02:27:06   I like Paul.

02:27:07   And you know what?

02:27:08   I'm like the puppy dog that wants to be loved.

02:27:11   And I love his pop sensibilities.

02:27:13   And my god, go back and listen to a song like "Here, There, and Everywhere."

02:27:17   Like, I know you get this, but, like, the first verse starts with "here," the second

02:27:20   verse-- he's so-- but he got the rap for being the guy who, after Yoko, we can most blame

02:27:26   for the Beatles breaking up because he was so uncool and hassling everybody all the time.

02:27:33   And with this, I see Paul in a role that I couldn't even have guessed, which is, guys,

02:27:40   we need to do this, and we need a plan, and we need a work ethic.

02:27:44   And I think in a lot of ways, in a way that George and Ringo would probably not pipe up

02:27:48   about for years, I think he needed to be John's wrangler.

02:27:52   And I think he needed to find a way to attach that wild horse to the most useful cart.

02:28:00   And we've got to keep John happy, but guys, we really need to get to work.

02:28:04   We can't just play Kansas City all day.

02:28:07   We've got stuff to do here.

02:28:12   That was one of the big ones for me, just personal point of personal privilege.

02:28:16   It was nice for me to see, you know what?

02:28:18   Paul wasn't a jerk.

02:28:19   Paul was trying really hard, and I can't get away from this.

02:28:21   The scenes where you just see the reaction shot of Paul nodding, and with big eyes, and

02:28:27   I'm getting all the body language of, "I hear you, and I'm listening to you, and even though

02:28:31   I may not agree with you, I'm not going to say anything about it because I want to keep

02:28:34   things going."

02:28:36   He's like the project manager.

02:28:38   Nobody likes, believe me, I'm a retired project manager.

02:28:41   Nobody likes the project manager.

02:28:43   You're vice president in charge of bad news.

02:28:45   Nobody likes you because you're the one with the shoulder.

02:28:47   You're on the hand between the shoulder blades saying, "Let's keep moving toward the exit."

02:28:53   My job is to keep this moving.

02:28:55   We're looking at an X on that calendar every day, and I don't know how long we're going

02:28:59   to spend perfecting Polythene Pam if you're going to be over here just wanting to shuck

02:29:06   and jive for an hour.

02:29:07   Yeah, fucking around.

02:29:08   Well, some of it is like, "Oh, Alex has got to go set up his studio that didn't work.

02:29:11   God, that shit is so hilarious."

02:29:13   But then also just the stuff of like…

02:29:15   Anyway, that was a big one for me.

02:29:18   I'd always heard John.

02:29:19   I think John was at this point.

02:29:22   I don't want to say anything about the man, but I think he was into some of the problems

02:29:26   that would bedevil him in the early '70s.

02:29:28   I think he might have been doing some heroin then.

02:29:30   I'm not sure.

02:29:31   The point is, other story, more conventional wisdom, John was a fucking gacked-out zombie,

02:29:37   and fucking Yoko put her hand up his ass and made him walk around and go, "Kiss, kiss,

02:29:42   be rough," or whatever.

02:29:45   But also the final one, the huge one, the Beatles hated each other, and every minute

02:29:49   of this was terrible.

02:29:50   No, it wasn't.

02:29:51   There's more friction on succession in the making of this book.

02:29:55   They were so kind to each other as they were clearly dissolving.

02:29:58   So kind, so patient, generous, good listeners.

02:30:02   My wife even said, one of her notes was that she wishes the Beatles were her parents because

02:30:07   they got along so much better.

02:30:10   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:30:13   Yeah, and like, you know…

02:30:17   There's a big part of the third episode, maybe it's sort of the whole…

02:30:22   One thing for me is that as I watched, we watched one segment per night at a time.

02:30:28   We didn't binge four hours of it at once, but it all blurred together for me, and each

02:30:34   one put me into a hypnotic state where it compelled me to just sort of…

02:30:41   In the best possible way that cinema just pulls you in, and then the credits roll, and

02:30:46   you're like, "I can't believe that's over," and you're like, "Oh, that was

02:30:48   two hours."

02:30:49   I can't…

02:30:50   That's Godfather II in a nut.

02:30:52   Yeah, it pulls you in.

02:30:53   Like, how was that three hours?

02:30:54   But the third one is mostly about the rooftop concert.

02:30:58   Everybody has seen the footage of and knows that they did it, but my god, they were so

02:31:01   nervous about it.

02:31:02   Oh my god.

02:31:05   But just little dumb things, like Paul jumping up and down on the boards because they're

02:31:09   not sure if the roof can hold all of the weight, and there's nowhere else that they can go.

02:31:13   This is the absolute last resort, and frickin' Dennis Eaton Hogg has ten cameras he needs

02:31:19   to be doing stuff with across the street.

02:31:21   Three cameras downstairs, like all of that stuff, and it's a quickening.

02:31:25   This is it, guys.

02:31:26   It's go time.

02:31:27   However they came up with that dumb date.

02:31:29   I don't know.

02:31:30   But the meta talk, again, the meta talk all along is, "Okay, so where are we today?

02:31:34   Well, we've got these songs.

02:31:36   We're getting pretty good with Get Back or Amazing Don't Let Me Down.

02:31:40   We're getting there, but where are we going to stage this?

02:31:42   How's it going to happen?

02:31:43   Are we still doing this as a TV show?"

02:31:46   Because, let me ask you, here's the thing.

02:31:47   Here's how Merlin Mann thinks about it.

02:31:49   Wait a minute.

02:31:50   So, as of today, what are we making?

02:31:52   Is this mainly a movie?

02:31:54   Is this mainly a TV show?

02:31:56   Is this mainly ... Because the decision making that Glenn Johns is going to need to know

02:32:00   about in order to ... If you want to record live on a roof in London, wow, that's a really

02:32:05   different setup than being in this studio versus the Apple studio on Savile Road.

02:32:12   And they were so focused on the set list.

02:32:15   And you think ... I don't know.

02:32:17   There's a part of me that ... Is it okay if we play an acoustic guitar?

02:32:21   They had to think about that.

02:32:23   There was a part of me that always assumed ... And one of the weird things about the

02:32:28   Beatles is that they stopped touring relatively early, and all ... What we think of as the

02:32:34   best of the Beatles, they didn't tour and do rock concerts.

02:32:38   We think that's what a major band ... They would do studio things, but 65 was when

02:32:42   that ended, and they went into the studio for Revolver.

02:32:44   But yeah, they would do occasional.

02:32:46   They would do the All You Need Is Love.

02:32:50   But no, they couldn't hear anything.

02:32:53   But they clearly ... And famously, I don't know if you've ever heard of this fellow,

02:32:57   Malcolm Gladwell, but ... Oh, no, no, you better not.

02:33:01   There better not be a five-figure estimate coming here.

02:33:05   But what if you practice 10,000 hours and you still suck?

02:33:09   Is that a thing?

02:33:10   The thing is, he is sort of ... He's a shit.

02:33:14   I hate that guy.

02:33:15   He is sort of right about ... No, but he's right that they honed their chops playing

02:33:21   live in dive bars.

02:33:23   Eight hours a day, the owner would yell, "Mokshau, mokshau, go out and make a good show," and

02:33:27   they would play for eight hours totally on speed and having to amuse drunk people for

02:33:34   eight hours a day.

02:33:37   But they still were, even if they stopped playing live shows in '65, they still prided

02:33:44   themselves on it.

02:33:45   And they wanted that thing to be perfect.

02:33:50   And they sweated everything.

02:33:51   This is how we're going out.

02:33:54   It better be good.

02:33:55   Should they all be rockers?

02:33:56   Should we play our old stuff?

02:33:58   How would you leave people with the last impression of the Beatles and you're deciding that on

02:34:04   the Tuesday before the Wednesday when it happens?

02:34:07   All right.

02:34:09   Do we have time for a special guest?

02:34:12   I think we do.

02:34:13   I think we ... Yeah.

02:34:14   All right.

02:34:15   My wife wants to talk to you about Debbie.

02:34:17   Debbie ... Okay.

02:34:19   Amy, are you there?

02:34:21   Here.

02:34:22   Why don't you take over?

02:34:23   We don't have time.

02:34:24   I don't want to ... No, you come on and talk about Debbie.

02:34:27   We haven't spoken about her.

02:34:28   Oh, you haven't talked about Debbie?

02:34:32   Debbie was the star of the show.

02:34:34   Wait, remind me who Debbie is.

02:34:37   Oh, you don't remember Debbie?

02:34:38   So Debbie was the person tasked with holding off the cops.

02:34:43   Oh my God.

02:34:44   The girl with the eyeliner and the hidden camera.

02:34:46   Oh my God.

02:34:47   And she just ... And her thing was just repeat whatever they say to buy time, which is sort

02:34:55   of a great strategy.

02:34:58   And she'd be like, "Oh, so you want to come in?"

02:35:01   And they'd be like, "Yes."

02:35:02   "Oh, you want to go upstairs?"

02:35:03   "Yes, yes, we would be much obliged to come in."

02:35:05   And she's like, "So you want to go-" Everyone's so polite.

02:35:07   Don't you wish black people got a chance to pick their cops?

02:35:10   And they're so polite.

02:35:15   And then when they finally do go up there, they just stand there.

02:35:17   Oh my God.

02:35:18   Oh my God.

02:35:19   Debbie.

02:35:20   Yeah, because I sort of suspected that the cops just wanted to get in to see.

02:35:26   You know?

02:35:27   Like did you sort of- I very much had that.

02:35:28   They waited a pretty long time before they sent Mal over.

02:35:30   And they did.

02:35:31   They were just like, "Can I go upstairs?"

02:35:32   And Debbie was like, "Well, you know, there's a weight limit, so you might not want to go

02:35:37   up there because the roof might fall in."

02:35:41   And oh my God.

02:35:42   I would watch a whole documentary.

02:35:44   I'm not sure her name is Debbie now, but I would watch a whole documentary about Debbie.

02:35:49   Ten years ago, you would have called it a web series.

02:35:51   Give me just something like a children's hospital.

02:35:53   Just give me ten episodes about Debbie.

02:35:55   I would also, and I can understand if you're not a parent that you would think this is

02:35:58   annoying, but like how much do you love little Heather doing some pretty serviceable high

02:36:04   hat work and Ringo does not say a peep?

02:36:07   How awesome was that kid?

02:36:09   How?

02:36:10   I mean, she was keeping a rhythm on the high hat.

02:36:13   It was crazy.

02:36:14   Right.

02:36:15   But didn't you sort of feel like Paul bringing a kid was his answer to John being there?

02:36:24   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:36:25   I totally do.

02:36:26   Like that was his answer.

02:36:27   This is my human shield.

02:36:28   Oh, you're going to bring Yoko?

02:36:29   Well, I'm going to bring a child and let's disrupt my brain.

02:36:32   George talks about that.

02:36:33   I don't know if it was here or the anthology, but George talks about how everybody's on

02:36:36   such better behavior once they bring in Billy Preston.

02:36:40   Same way that when they brought in Eric Clapton, everybody was nicer to each other.

02:36:44   Oh yeah, yeah.

02:36:45   Yes.

02:36:46   This is how divorced people stay together, Amy.

02:36:48   You've got to bring in another party.

02:36:49   We were actually super worried about Billy Preston.

02:36:53   We were like, "Is he a hostage?

02:36:54   Why aren't they letting him go?"

02:36:56   Billy Preston has been there a long time.

02:36:58   Oh, he's the load-bearing pianist.

02:37:01   Yeah, because he just smiled and did great.

02:37:05   He seems so cool.

02:37:06   Oh, didn't he?

02:37:07   Didn't he?

02:37:08   But, oh, okay, this is something.

02:37:11   Did you guys talk about the cops yet?

02:37:13   So the cops being super civil.

02:37:15   Like first of all, that was the thing that broke me.

02:37:21   We've received some complaints.

02:37:22   And it must have been utterly disruptive, 10 or 13 or however many cameras.

02:37:27   The whole thing must have been so disruptive.

02:37:29   Oh my God, it must have been horrible.

02:37:30   Tell me what was your impression?

02:37:32   You think you might like some of those in Philly?

02:37:33   Get some Bobby's?

02:37:34   Yeah, we don't have any of those.

02:37:36   And first of all, why do they tolerate the strap under their lip?

02:37:40   The strap under the lip would make me lose my goddamn mind.

02:37:44   It was like seeing somebody with a stain.

02:37:46   And the one young kid who looked like my son's age or younger, like 12, kept licking it.

02:37:52   And I was like, "God, COVID.

02:37:53   Oh my God, stop licking your strap."

02:37:56   But-

02:37:57   Like with bad breath, you get a stinky strap?

02:37:59   Oh, I would hate that.

02:38:01   Oh my God, your strap stank so bad.

02:38:04   But I also thought too, like in the current era, that the cops would bust in and think,

02:38:11   "Well, Billy Preston is kidnapping the Beatles and making them play."

02:38:15   And would just-

02:38:16   "Hello, hello, hello, why are you stealing this brand new Fender Rhodes piano?

02:38:21   What's all this then?"

02:38:22   Bang, bang, bang.

02:38:23   That's not funny, but it is true.

02:38:27   But that's how we live now.

02:38:28   Like seeing the cops be- and they were probably over-leasable.

02:38:33   And I don't know what the Beatles were like then.

02:38:37   But like-

02:38:38   But to hear Ringo- again, I don't know if it was here, I've watched so much stuff lately,

02:38:42   but where Ringo's talking about, "Oh, in fact, they let us play too long.

02:38:45   I was really hoping they'd bust us and I'd be dragged away in handcuffs."

02:38:48   Like, oh man.

02:38:49   And didn't they sort of say that?

02:38:50   Things really changed, dude.

02:38:51   They said at the end-

02:38:52   They probably did, yeah.

02:38:53   Like-

02:38:54   We wanted more of a spectacle.

02:38:55   Let's just say the cops made a stop when in reality, I think they felt they weren't

02:38:59   up to snuff.

02:39:00   Didn't they say that at the end?

02:39:02   They said like, "We can just say-"

02:39:03   And like the fact that they do all those sort of multiple takes to get like the best take,

02:39:07   and Jon was just saying a minute ago, you can tell they're so nervous about having

02:39:10   to do this.

02:39:11   Like, I just- as I say, like as a project- former project manager, I just think about

02:39:15   how many things could go wrong and how under planned this whole thing is.

02:39:20   And it really could have been such a debacle.

02:39:23   But it was-

02:39:24   With new material?

02:39:25   Oh my gosh.

02:39:26   It was so amazing.

02:39:27   And so for the whole thing, you realize that like, Paul- to me, Paul was the dad.

02:39:34   You know, he was the one- and it was so exceedingly civil to me, the way he said like, "Let's,

02:39:41   you know, hey, we're gonna do this tomorrow.

02:39:43   Maybe we should practice, lads."

02:39:45   You know, like he was so exceedingly-

02:39:46   Yeah, I don't want to be a dick about it, but this is probably our last show, so maybe

02:39:50   we should learn- and then maybe we should play it all the way through, like without

02:39:54   doing an Everly Brothers cover.

02:39:56   Maybe we could do-

02:39:57   Right!

02:39:58   But I grew up thinking that The Beatles breaking up was this diva, huge, giant deal.

02:40:02   This is my question for you.

02:40:05   I was talking to Jon about this, but we were talking about sort of, at least for me as

02:40:10   somebody who's a midling-level Beatle mania.

02:40:12   Yes, that's exactly where I am.

02:40:14   Like I am a fan, yeah, but not a huge fan.

02:40:16   You know all the stories, though.

02:40:17   You know, yeah, you know, Yoko broke them up and Paul's the jerk.

02:40:19   What were your, as we say on political Twitter, what were your priors coming into this?

02:40:22   What were the things that you expected or didn't expect to see?

02:40:26   What was different?

02:40:27   Well, give me your impressions just in general, like what you came in with as somebody- and

02:40:31   we've talked about this, about, you know, Jonas Levingale, a submarine as a kid, I think

02:40:34   we talked about that in New Zealand.

02:40:36   But like, your priors coming into this, what were you expecting out of this?

02:40:40   Well, I thought that Jon was this huge diva and that he brought in Yoko and, and I'm not

02:40:48   saying that I thought Yoko broke up the Beatles because even to me as a kid that smelled misogynist

02:40:55   and racist.

02:40:56   Yeah.

02:40:57   But I did sort of-

02:40:58   I wish I'd smelled that better because I believed that until much more recently than I-

02:41:01   No, no!

02:41:02   No, I'm being dead honest.

02:41:03   No, no!

02:41:04   I believed that because I grew up with it.

02:41:06   It became-

02:41:07   But that's how we grew up!

02:41:08   That was the thing.

02:41:09   Yoko broke up the Beatles.

02:41:10   That was the explanation instead of like, "Oh, Paul moved to a different part of London."

02:41:14   Like there's all kinds of things you're like, "Oh, I didn't know about that.

02:41:16   Oh, you know, and Jon broke up with Cynthia and that was really painful.

02:41:18   And Jon barely left his house for a fucking year because he was so depressed."

02:41:22   We don't talk about these things as much as the Asian lady with the hat.

02:41:26   No, Jon was a weirdo.

02:41:27   I mean, Jon, Jon was to me the off thing and, but they were so civil in dealing with him.

02:41:34   Like to me, like I can't tell you how many times I thought someone needs to punch Jon

02:41:39   in the face right now.

02:41:40   Like they're doing Let It Be.

02:41:41   Yeah, like somebody needs to stick a Ritalin into Jon's ken.

02:41:45   Yes, yes, yes.

02:41:46   Like, dude, you need to pump the brakes.

02:41:48   This nervous energy is not helping.

02:41:50   Can I say that?

02:41:51   That Jon is sort of the undiagnosed kid?

02:41:54   Because we grew up in that era where kids were undiagnosed.

02:41:59   Where I think, I think Jon needed some medication.

02:42:01   I think he was a genius.

02:42:02   I think he was a super nice person.

02:42:05   And that's the overriding thing.

02:42:06   He wasn't this diva.

02:42:07   He was a nice person.

02:42:08   I think he had a very nice aspect.

02:42:09   You know, I think he had a very nice person though.

02:42:10   His mom died and like, yeah, the whole thing.

02:42:13   And Paul's too, right?

02:42:14   Paul's mother died too.

02:42:16   But Jon's whole, I mean, again, I'm not going to be the armchair guy, but I'm just curious.

02:42:20   So you come into that.

02:42:21   And so I was telling Jon how excited I was when I saw the trailer a few months ago, because

02:42:25   it was so different from what I'd seen in the movie Let It Be.

02:42:28   Like what, what was your feeling when you saw this was coming?

02:42:31   Did you just think, oh no, it's going to be another Lord of the Rings movie with nine

02:42:33   endings?

02:42:34   Like what was your, what was your feeling?

02:42:35   I was sort of worried.

02:42:36   Because I know you're, I know you're a huge fan of Peter Jackson in general.

02:42:40   And you love, you love music about, you love movies about that.

02:42:43   I took a Xanax in the middle of the first month.

02:42:45   You love coins, you love dwarves.

02:42:48   We don't say midget anymore.

02:42:50   You- Merlin, I-

02:42:53   You can't say the word midget on TV.

02:42:54   I took a Xanax and yelled, I'm out.

02:42:58   Really?

02:42:59   Yeah.

02:43:00   Yeah.

02:43:01   Not only did I take the Xanax during that movie, and I was so happy it was still in

02:43:06   my purse.

02:43:07   We must have traveled, you know?

02:43:08   So I was like- Oh, what a gift.

02:43:10   I screamed, yeah, no, it was a great gift.

02:43:12   And I was like, wake me up when this is over.

02:43:14   It's terrible.

02:43:15   And I love the books, so I'm not, you know, a gift.

02:43:18   Right, and you just, you just turn and look him dead in the eyes and go, you owe me.

02:43:21   It's like, I'm out.

02:43:24   No, but, but thinking this, I, I sort of always thought like Paul was the diva, you know,

02:43:32   that maybe I was always Team Paul.

02:43:35   He's very, he's supposed to be like very ego assertive in a way that like he steps on everybody

02:43:40   else's contributions and makes them play his, I think the phrase John used was his granny

02:43:45   shit.

02:43:46   Yeah, and I also thought too that when this came out, because Paul's the only one left,

02:43:51   well, I mean Ringo, I mean, I could do a whole show on Ringo and his faces.

02:43:58   He was so concerned and constipated.

02:44:02   But I-

02:44:03   It's funny reading this all on Twitter as we're recording.

02:44:07   Ringo was so-

02:44:08   I want to just hug him.

02:44:11   He's like, he's like a Cabbage Patch doll or no, or like what?

02:44:14   He's like a-

02:44:15   But everyone loved him.

02:44:16   Like a foster pet.

02:44:17   They were all so, they, they were all so nice.

02:44:20   Like he wasn't, he wasn't, I don't know, he was a sweetheart.

02:44:24   I loved Ringo.

02:44:25   But yes, he was very constipated and he sort of was the only one who knew, like, we're

02:44:30   fucking this up.

02:44:33   We're messing it up.

02:44:34   Yeah, and Ringo's, it's so interesting because like when we go back and I watched a YouTube

02:44:37   video the other day of, you know, I know that Ringo is one of the great drummers.

02:44:41   Yeah, no, no.

02:44:42   And I mean, the real heads know, but there are a lot of people who are like, oh yeah,

02:44:46   Ringo, whatever.

02:44:47   He's-

02:44:48   No, no, he's not-

02:44:49   He's so simple.

02:44:50   Tom Petty used him as a drummer for at least one album, but they were friends.

02:44:52   But he was friends with George Harrison and Ringo.

02:44:55   He's very low key.

02:44:56   He was there when Prince throws his guitar in the air.

02:44:59   But he's very low key.

02:45:02   But like what Ringo brings to a song, my guess is, as a former musician, is that a lot of

02:45:07   what Ringo brings to the process is not going to fully bloom until the songwriting is done,

02:45:14   until the arrangement is done.

02:45:16   And when you go through this YouTube video, I'll try and find out for notes, but like

02:45:18   it was a guy explaining like, well, here's how anybody else would have played Ticket

02:45:22   to Ride.

02:45:23   Here's how anybody else would have played I'm Only Sleeping or whatever.

02:45:27   And here's how Ringo played it.

02:45:28   And you would never in a million years think that that's the drumbeat that worked there.

02:45:32   But I'm guessing that what he really brought to the band, apart from an insane meter and

02:45:39   like sense of rhythm, was that, you know what I mean though?

02:45:41   Like if they're still fucking around going like, I don't know if this song is called

02:45:44   Scrambled Eggs or what, or they're saying like, I can't decide about like, you know,

02:45:50   what's the one?

02:45:51   Get Back is the one that takes forever.

02:45:52   You know, I bet a lot of the art for Ringo comes in at the point where they're recording,

02:45:57   where he can really hear what he's doing with the actual song.

02:46:01   You know what I mean?

02:46:02   Right.

02:46:03   And I know nothing about music, but that is something that is always said about drummers,

02:46:08   though.

02:46:09   Like, well, Charlie Watts has recently died and the, you know, the Stones say he was the

02:46:13   heartbeat of the Stones.

02:46:16   So I believe that.

02:46:18   I believe that, you know, I don't think that, you know, Ringo was terrible, but I love his

02:46:25   music.

02:46:26   But he's not flashy.

02:46:27   I mean, he's not out there doing like, I mean, I don't, Stewart Copeland, I mean, for me

02:46:31   is an all-timer, but not everybody can or should be Stewart Copeland.

02:46:35   And you don't become Stewart Copeland unless you understand a whole lot of things that

02:46:41   are about more than playing When the Levee Breaks Mostly Right.

02:46:44   Right.

02:46:45   Well, even Dave Grohl, you know, we didn't.

02:46:48   Oh, Jesus.

02:46:49   I mean, my God.

02:46:50   Fucking like the drum for the drum fills, dude.

02:46:52   The drum fills on No One Knows.

02:46:53   I just made my kid put down her phone and just watch No One Knows.

02:46:57   Just listen.

02:46:58   Listen to the drum fills on the second chorus.

02:47:01   Do you do that to your kid?

02:47:02   I do that shit to my kid, and my kid is like, "Who cares?"

02:47:06   You know?

02:47:07   Yeah, like.

02:47:08   No.

02:47:09   They're not obligated to care, but it would really help me.

02:47:10   I would have more affection, if I'm being honest.

02:47:13   If you could just sit down and not play Genshin Impact, if you could just sit here and watch

02:47:17   The Big Lebowski like a gentleman, I think we'd get along a lot better.

02:47:21   Yeah, yeah.

02:47:22   I'll pay for whatever college you want, but just you.

02:47:24   Well, let's not go crazy.

02:47:26   If I'm not retiring, you can't go to college.

02:47:29   I'll let Mom take care of it.

02:47:31   You guys have Division of Duties there.

02:47:32   It sounds like John picks up the mail and takes out the trash.

02:47:34   Oh, yeah.

02:47:35   You don't like the way John brings in the mail.

02:47:36   Is that correct?

02:47:37   Oh, no, no.

02:47:38   Well, it's just a pile.

02:47:39   I mean, he doesn't bring in the mail.

02:47:41   He doesn't organize it or anything?

02:47:42   He just looks through it.

02:47:44   If there's anything that interests him, he brings it up, and then...

02:47:47   Oh, he's a cherry picker.

02:47:48   Yeah, he's a cherry picker.

02:47:49   I'm telling John we're talking about catalogs because it's the season, and we just got a

02:47:54   catalog for a blanket startup called Bundle, B-U-N-D-L.

02:47:59   You should get in to get you a bundle, Amy.

02:48:00   Do you know what we have?

02:48:03   We have something called The Big Blanket, which is a family blanket that you use on

02:48:08   the couch that would fit like eight people.

02:48:10   Oh, I love that.

02:48:11   Yeah.

02:48:12   But you know what?

02:48:13   That's so nice.

02:48:14   I don't need an email every week because how many big blankets do they think I fucking

02:48:17   need?

02:48:18   I might need the ACLU, am I right?

02:48:19   Oh, right.

02:48:20   Jesus Christ.

02:48:21   You know what?

02:48:22   I might now hate civil liberties.

02:48:23   And sometimes they go nuts.

02:48:24   I might hate civil liberties.

02:48:25   I might hate civil liberties.

02:48:26   I know, I know.

02:48:27   That is so true.

02:48:28   Like, I am so on board, and then they do something, I'm like, "Oh, fuck you.

02:48:35   Come on."

02:48:36   You guys suck.

02:48:37   Come on.

02:48:38   Why are you fucking the cow?

02:48:41   Like I'm trying to help you.

02:48:43   Yeah.

02:48:44   Why are you pissing me off?

02:48:45   If you're pissing me off, like, you're pissing off.

02:48:47   Oh, boy.

02:48:48   You don't have a hope.

02:48:49   So, yeah.

02:48:50   I'm as liberal as I come.

02:48:51   You're so screwed.

02:48:52   So if I'm pissed off, okay, I am going to give this back to John because he's like—

02:48:57   No, no, not yet.

02:48:58   I mean, just hang on.

02:48:59   We don't have time.

02:49:00   We got time.

02:49:01   We can stretch our legs a little bit.

02:49:02   He just sent me a bacon.

02:49:04   He just handed me a bacon.

02:49:06   Yeah, from Sharper Image.

02:49:07   Yeah.

02:49:08   You're getting that for Christmas.

02:49:09   I don't want to spoil it.

02:49:10   What is your—I feel like I want to say you're a revolver person.

02:49:14   Do you have a favorite—as we sit here today, do you—I mean, can you say—I used to struggle

02:49:18   for years between Revolver and Rubber Soul.

02:49:20   Now I go back and forth between White Album and Revolver.

02:49:22   Do you have a favorite Beatles album?

02:49:24   Oh, my God, no.

02:49:25   I don't, but I have a favorite Beatles song, and it is terrible.

02:49:28   Do you know it?

02:49:31   Has John said it?

02:49:32   It's terrible.

02:49:33   No, I don't.

02:49:34   But it's so good.

02:49:35   What album?

02:49:36   What album?

02:49:37   Oh, God, please don't say Magical Mystery Tour.

02:49:39   If I get drunk—

02:49:40   You love Blue Jay Way.

02:49:41   I bet you love Blue Jay Way.

02:49:42   No, no.

02:49:46   (beatboxing)

02:49:48   - Yes, yes.

02:49:49   - Do you think he's saying, "Fuck."

02:49:51   'Cause I think he might be.

02:49:52   I think John might be saying the F word.

02:49:53   - Endlessly, endlessly.

02:49:54   Until she falls asleep.

02:49:55   - Yes, yes, I need to hear,

02:49:58   why don't we do it in the road?

02:50:00   And it is-

02:50:01   - Well, no one will be watching us.

02:50:02   - No one will be watching us.

02:50:03   So why don't we do it in the road?

02:50:05   And those are the only words.

02:50:06   And if I get drunk enough, which, you know.

02:50:11   - Well, you know, it's, you gotta,

02:50:13   you gotta, it's called self-care.

02:50:14   I also love "I Dig a Pony."

02:50:17   - That's not bad.

02:50:18   Let it be as far away my least favorite.

02:50:21   - Do you know what I learned to hate?

02:50:22   The long and winding road during this documentary.

02:50:25   I was like, "Hey, that's a beautiful song."

02:50:28   Like in theory, but when I have to hear it 50 fucking times,

02:50:32   I also got sick of getting back.

02:50:33   - George used to pump the brakes on that,

02:50:35   well, that Leslie organ effect, that like phasory sound.

02:50:39   Pump the brakes, George.

02:50:40   You got your cool ass psychedelic Stratocaster.

02:50:43   Just play it like a gentleman.

02:50:44   Don't be cute about it.

02:50:45   - Yeah, but hey, did you guys talk about the part?

02:50:48   So this is something that like so struck me

02:50:50   'cause we were talking earlier about how I thought

02:50:53   the Beatles breaking up was like so dramatic.

02:50:56   But then when George says to John, like,

02:50:59   "Hey, I'm thinking about putting out an album

02:51:01   since I have so many songs."

02:51:03   And John's like, "Yeah, you should do it.

02:51:05   That would be cool."

02:51:06   And I'm like, they were so civil.

02:51:08   - It feels sincere.

02:51:09   - Right, right. - Like when George

02:51:10   is helping Ringo.

02:51:12   Ringo plays guitar.

02:51:13   So Amy, I pioneered a style of piano

02:51:16   that I call Wolverine style

02:51:17   because imagine Wolverine's three claws

02:51:20   and I can play a major chord or a minor chord

02:51:23   in several white keys, but I'm not a piano player.

02:51:26   And that's roughly, I think, where Richard,

02:51:27   one Richard Starkey is.

02:51:29   He's doing Wolverine piano for Octopus's Garden.

02:51:31   And then George comes over and in the nicest way is like,

02:51:34   "Yeah, but then you gotta bring it back around.

02:51:36   You gotta go to the F and then the G

02:51:38   and you bring it back around."

02:51:39   I love that scene.

02:51:40   They love each other.

02:51:41   They loved each other so much.

02:51:45   - It's always been presented as,

02:51:46   I said this to John earlier,

02:51:47   but so much of John Lennon's stuff

02:51:49   is taken way out of context.

02:51:52   My favorite John quote of all time,

02:51:53   which is the meanest, most horrible thing

02:51:55   anybody could ever say,

02:51:56   but I would like to think it's taken out of context,

02:51:58   was somebody said, "Do you think Ringo's the best drummer

02:52:00   in rock and roll?"

02:52:01   And he said, "Ringo's not even the best drummer

02:52:03   in the Beatles."

02:52:05   So that's the kind of thing.

02:52:06   No, he's talking about Paul,

02:52:07   who is the best everything in the band.

02:52:08   But that's the rep.

02:52:10   The rep is that John is the most cutting,

02:52:12   evil person in the world,

02:52:13   that George is this standoffish,

02:52:15   like slightly spectrumy meditation man.

02:52:19   - Right, right.

02:52:20   - Thinking about who I mean,

02:52:21   I mean mine and you're inside

02:52:22   and when you go to the whole point of going there

02:52:23   was to figure out who we are.

02:52:24   - Oh my God, you've got that lilt.

02:52:26   So, I started talking like that.

02:52:30   After watching it like four nights in a row,

02:52:32   I started talking.

02:52:33   - Oh God, that's insufferable, Amy.

02:52:33   Did you go any place in public talking like that?

02:52:36   - Oh yeah.

02:52:37   Well, no.

02:52:38   Well, through a mask.

02:52:39   - Okay, now we bring it back around to hour one,

02:52:42   or hour three.

02:52:43   Hop Singh, if you went in there

02:52:44   and started affecting a British accent,

02:52:46   maybe you're like, you know,

02:52:48   how would that go?

02:52:50   You hand over your license

02:52:51   and then you start talking

02:52:52   like you imagine Paul McCartney sounds like,

02:52:54   would you be put on the list?

02:52:56   Would you go in the spreadsheet for that?

02:52:57   - Yeah, probably.

02:52:58   Especially since the owner knows

02:53:00   that that is not how I speak.

02:53:02   But I have this weird thing

02:53:04   where if people have accents,

02:53:06   I sort of start,

02:53:06   remember when we were in New Zealand

02:53:09   and everyone had a lovely accent,

02:53:12   but I sort of start--

02:53:13   - Yes, yes, when people talk like this

02:53:15   and there was that kid's show

02:53:16   that was always on

02:53:17   where the guy would talk about being sun-seaf.

02:53:18   I was like, I love this country too much.

02:53:19   - But I sort of do that in my head.

02:53:21   - Oh, that's terrible.

02:53:22   - And then I think--

02:53:23   - Oh, you're like somebody I knew in junior high.

02:53:24   That's awful.

02:53:25   - Yeah, well, I'm not the person

02:53:27   who vacations in South Carolina

02:53:29   and then comes back with a Southern accent for a week.

02:53:32   - Yeah.

02:53:33   But remember when Madonna got an English accent for a while?

02:53:35   That was pretty wild.

02:53:36   - Oh, that was hot.

02:53:37   That was hot.

02:53:38   - Well, you know, I wouldn't toss her out of bed for eating.

02:53:41   - I could do a whole podcast on pictures

02:53:44   that Madonna released last week.

02:53:47   - Oh, I would love that.

02:53:48   I would listen to that.

02:53:49   - You should A, look them up

02:53:51   because what the fuck?

02:53:53   - Are they old or new?

02:53:54   - No, no, no.

02:53:55   She just released pictures

02:53:56   where suddenly she looks like Kim Kardashian

02:53:59   but 10 years younger.

02:54:00   - Oh no, did she do a Caitlin Olsen?

02:54:02   - Mm-hmm, and she has her ass out.

02:54:04   - Oh, good for her.

02:54:05   That's terrific.

02:54:06   - I mean, good for her.

02:54:07   - Yeah, good for her.

02:54:08   You know what?

02:54:09   I celebrate all people of all shapes, sizes, accents.

02:54:13   - Whatever, drugs.

02:54:15   - People, the internet's clamoring, Amy Jane.

02:54:17   I don't know if it's you and Paul.

02:54:18   I don't know what should happen

02:54:20   but people are clamoring for you.

02:54:21   You should do more podcasting.

02:54:22   I thoroughly enjoy visiting with you

02:54:24   even when I'm not in the conversation.

02:54:26   And I know you enjoy it,

02:54:27   especially when I'm not in the conversation.

02:54:29   You should do more podcasts.

02:54:30   You're really fine at it.

02:54:31   - So for like a week, I've been saying to John,

02:54:34   you have to talk about Debbie on the podcast,

02:54:37   the woman who calls off the police.

02:54:39   And I'm like, you have to talk about how civil the police are

02:54:42   and I was like, you have to talk about,

02:54:44   even though John is,

02:54:47   in my mind, John was sort of the problem

02:54:52   and he's a nice guy.

02:54:53   I mean, he's undiagnosed and he's got some issues

02:54:57   but he was just, he was a nice, they're all nice people.

02:55:01   It just didn't work.

02:55:02   They're all nice people.

02:55:03   - I don't know who said this,

02:55:05   but one of the great purported quotes

02:55:07   in the history of rock and roll,

02:55:08   there are many great ones,

02:55:10   but one of my favorites is,

02:55:12   it's probably attributed to somebody like Iggy Pop

02:55:14   or Alex Chilton,

02:55:15   but the quote is that all great rock and roll

02:55:17   is on the verge of falling apart,

02:55:18   which may not always be true

02:55:19   'cause you can be a professional about it,

02:55:21   but really the alchemy of a group of people

02:55:25   that becomes incredibly interesting

02:55:27   comes out of a point in time,

02:55:29   usually when people didn't have any other choice,

02:55:31   but to collaborate with this group of people

02:55:33   that was their best bet,