The Talk Show

326: ‘A Very Large Nap’, With John Moltz


00:00:00   I have in front of me, there's so much to talk about, but in front of me right now,

00:00:05   my hands are on it, is the one product from Apple that everybody wants to hear my thoughts about.

00:00:10   You know what it is. It's the cloth. It's the polishing cloth.

00:00:16   Sorry, I ruined your reveal. I should have played dumb. I should have played stupid.

00:00:21   It's the MacBook Pro. Nope, you know. Nope, I blew it. I blew it with a heavy-handed intro.

00:00:28   You telegraphed it too much. What I did is I bought a 14-inch. I keep wanting to say 13-inch.

00:00:35   That's going to be a hard habit to break. Yeah. For some reason, when the 15-inch ones went to 16,

00:00:40   I found that easy. 14's new, right? Yeah. They've never had a 14 before. There was a 12-inch MacBook.

00:00:48   They never had 16 before either. They used to have 13, 15, 17. Right. Which, in hindsight,

00:00:55   was kind of weird, but I've often said this. You know who was a huge fan of the 17-inch

00:01:00   PowerBook? My wife. Oh, really?

00:01:02   She still misses it. Wow.

00:01:04   Because she likes to have the biggest screen possible, but she hasn't had a home office set

00:01:10   up in, God, might be decades at this point. So she kind of needs to do her MacBooking from the

00:01:18   kitchen. We have plenty of room in the kitchen and stuff like that, but an iMac, which would

00:01:22   really satisfy her desire for a big, huge screen, would only go into a room all the way on the top

00:01:29   floor that she wouldn't want to spend a lot of time in. Yeah.

00:01:33   And it's good she doesn't listen to the show, because…

00:01:36   But I often feel like I could just buy it for her, but honestly, I worry that she would think

00:01:42   I'm trying to get rid of her. Why don't you go upstairs? But anyway, she loved the 17-inch,

00:01:52   the old lunch tray. But 16-inch is a nice medium in between, right, where it's less of a footprint

00:01:58   on your desk, more likely to fit on an airport or airplane tray or whatever. 14-inch is getting hard

00:02:04   for me. I'll get used to it, I guess. But anyway, I ordered the 14-inch MacBook Pro with everything

00:02:12   stupidly maxed out, which I don't need, but I just want.

00:02:17   You just want. Right.

00:02:18   It is maybe my midlife crisis. Instead of buying a sports car, I've bought a laptop.

00:02:23   Yeah, right. Absolutely.

00:02:25   I bought a laptop that cost several thousand dollars extra.

00:02:28   Well, we used to spend—I mean, I used to spend a lot more. I was looking it up because I was trying

00:02:33   to figure out what the most that I had spent was, and I think it was—actually, I can't remember,

00:02:37   it was the 400 MHz or the 1 GHz, but one of those two titanium power books was like 2,600 bucks.

00:02:45   Which I think—I mean, I was doing a little bit of programming back then, so I probably

00:02:51   used it a bit for that, but I probably didn't use it to capacity either.

00:02:56   I have spent more than that in the past. I don't know that this—this might be—I don't think it's

00:03:05   the most expensive MacBook I've ever bought, but it's more than I need. And I could always justify

00:03:10   it before because, you know, like, "Oh, I need the RAM." I really do use RAM because I sloppily

00:03:18   leave hundreds of browser tabs open. And it's nice. It is nice to just keep opening all the

00:03:24   apps, every app you use, and just keep them all running and not worry about it. But in the old

00:03:29   days, when you ran out of RAM on a Mac—well, in the really old days, of course, you would—

00:03:34   You'd buy more.

00:03:36   No, you'd put RAM double or RAM.

00:03:37   No, but like in the classic—well, you'd either put RAM double or in classic,

00:03:42   it would just tell you there's not enough memory to launch an application.

00:03:44   Everything would stop.

00:03:45   Which is—it made sense. And then, until, you know, it didn't make sense. Like,

00:03:52   in the '80s, it made perfect sense. Well, of course, if you don't have enough memory,

00:03:56   you can't open any more applications. But in like the early days of Mac OS X,

00:04:01   when they switched to the Unix philosophies, you never really run out of memory.

00:04:05   It just turns—you know, it just uses disk space as swap. And we'll just swap it out.

00:04:12   And it used to be so slow because you had spinning hard disks, and even the RAM was slower compared

00:04:19   to today. And it—you know, when you actually ran out of real RAM for what you wanted to do,

00:04:26   you'd notice it. I mean, you'd actually hear the hard drive going, or you'd feel—you know,

00:04:30   you could like feel it under your palm or wherever the hard drive was on your laptop.

00:04:35   You know, and then that stopped being so much of an issue. And I have to say, like, testing out

00:04:40   last year's 13-inch M1 MacBook Pro, I would go look in Activity Monitor and see that I was using

00:04:48   way more than the 16 gigabytes of RAM that were in the machine, and that swap was up at, you know,

00:04:54   10 gigabytes or something like that. And I didn't notice because it's all so fast. The SSD is fast.

00:05:02   But anyway, I bought a stupidly fast M1 Max 14-inch MacBook Pro. It is not here yet. I believe

00:05:11   it is coming soon. But when I ordered it down at the bottom, when they give you the, "Hey,

00:05:16   do you want to buy some add-on stuff?" You know, this is when Apple turns pure retail, right? I

00:05:22   mean, because why not? I mean, I'm not even complaining about it. This is what you do if

00:05:26   you're selling stuff, is, you know, you put some mints at the checkout counter, you know,

00:05:32   you want to buy some gum? Well, they had that $19 polishing cloth.

00:05:37   Pete: Well, once you spent that much money, $19 for a polishing cloth doesn't seem like anything.

00:05:43   Matthew: Right! It doesn't, it's the perfect, for me, it was the perfect little add-on. And

00:05:49   it really is like the John Travolta/Uma Thurman scene in Pulp Fiction where they go out to eat,

00:05:56   to the diner, and she buys, I forget how expensive the milkshake is. Amy and I just watched that

00:06:02   movie recently, and it's been so many years that it doesn't even sound like an expensive milkshake.

00:06:09   It sounds like what you would order at any restaurant, you know? You just pop into a

00:06:14   Red Robin or, you know, any chain. This is what milkshakes cost. But he's like, "I got to see

00:06:19   what a $10 milkshake costs." I don't remember what the cost. I had to see what a $19 Apple polishing

00:06:25   cloth was like. It is very nice. It comes in like a sleeve or like a case almost, right?

00:06:36   Yep. Well, it's like a sort of a, yeah, it's like a paper envelope. But it is a little

00:06:43   three-dimensional. The envelope, the cardboard box that it comes in is exactly, almost exactly,

00:06:50   the dimensions of a standard personal checkbook. Do you remember writing checks?

00:06:56   I still do. I'm 109 years old. We do too, but it's like every time I do,

00:07:05   I can still see checks from 2019 are on the same page of the ledger. But it's the size of a

00:07:12   checkbook. It is not very heavy. It comes not in a ridiculously-sized shipping box, but it is far

00:07:20   larger than a checkbook. Of course, it's review season. Apple is sending me products to review.

00:07:28   Most of them, like with the MacBook, all came in one big box. If they're going to give you extra

00:07:32   stuff, like I got the MacBook and, spoiler for something I want to talk about in a bit with you,

00:07:37   the third-generation AirPods, were all sent together in one meta box from Apple to me,

00:07:46   the reviewer. But I've ordered other stuff. You forget what you ordered and what's coming.

00:07:54   I could tell it was an Apple product, but I had this sinking feeling at first when the FedEx guy

00:07:59   handed it to me that I'd gotten ripped off, that it was an empty box. Because nothing rattled

00:08:08   inside. They use a bit of cellophane to strap the small product box within the larger brown

00:08:19   shipping box. So nothing rattled. And it sure as shit felt empty.

00:08:23   There was also a look on the FedEx guy's face like, "Hey, this box looks like it's still

00:08:32   sealed up." And we didn't say anything. And then it was maybe a second, two seconds before I thought,

00:08:42   "Oh, it's the polishing cloth." I did buy something stupidly light.

00:08:47   I'm surprised those aren't back ordered already, though.

00:08:48   I heard that they were. I don't know.

00:08:52   Okay. So you got it, but you don't have your MacBook yet.

00:08:55   No, no. But even when I ordered them together, they had very different shipping dates.

00:09:01   Yeah.

00:09:02   The cloth itself is surprisingly thick. I don't know what it's made of. It feels like suede.

00:09:11   Like it's not like a terrycloth type thing. It feels like suede. I'm guessing it's not suede,

00:09:16   but it's some sort of artificial material. It's a light gray that is darker than a silver MacBook

00:09:25   but lighter than a space gray MacBook. It has a very nice feel, round corners, an embossed Apple

00:09:32   logo in the lower right corner. And it wipes the screen about as good as gets grease off the screen

00:09:43   and little dots off the screen, exactly as well as every other anti-static cloth I've been using

00:09:51   that I probably bought for $2 on Amazon.

00:09:55   Not $18.

00:09:56   You know, my mother-in-law, God bless her, often struggles with—I'm very hard to buy gifts for.

00:10:02   I don't know. You probably are, too. Because there's not a lot of stuff I like. I'm picky

00:10:07   about it. And usually if there's something I need, I just buy it for myself.

00:10:11   Yeah. Well, that's always a problem.

00:10:14   And my mother-in-law always wants to buy me some stuff for Christmas, like stocking stuffer type

00:10:18   stuff. And one time, somehow she found out that I like to have a nice cleaning cloth for my stuff.

00:10:27   You're not supposed to use paper towels. It's just to wipe screens. And she got me these ones

00:10:33   that I think that they're meant—they seem clearly more meant for washing a car.

00:10:37   Because they're so big, they're enormous. It's like a napkin you could easily—even if you have

00:10:46   a very large nap, you could cover your lap with it. But they're great. But they're more of like

00:10:54   a terrycloth type thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, where there's little threads. Super soft,

00:11:00   and they work great. But I'm betting you can find the equivalent for a lot less.

00:11:05   I'm not quite sure why Apple makes this, other than the fact that people like me

00:11:11   are just going to click the button.

00:11:14   Because they got an additional $18 out of you.

00:11:16   Yeah, $19. Now, here's the other interesting thing. Because I believe that this same cloth

00:11:24   ships with the Pro Display XDR with the infamously expensive $5,000 6K display that comes—or doesn't

00:11:34   come with, but has an optional $1,000 stand. And there's a little card that comes in the box. And

00:11:41   it says, it's got it written in four languages, but the English version says, "Safe for use on all

00:11:46   Apple displays and surfaces. For infrequent cleaning of hard-to-remove smudges on nanotexture

00:11:56   glass, a 70% isopropyl alcohol solution may be used." Now, the nanotexture glass, I was like,

00:12:06   "What the hell products do I have with nanotexture glass?" Then I remembered, that's what they call

00:12:10   the matte finish XDR display. Right? Okay, so only one kind of XDR display.

00:12:18   One kind of XDR display, which I think is actually more expensive. Who knows, though,

00:12:22   the way they wrote this, the way that they don't mention the Pro Display XDR specifically.

00:12:28   Perhaps they have plans in the future to have other nanotextured displays and their forward

00:12:35   thinking and their warning. But I actually think, this is my genuine complaint,

00:12:42   I actually think that this is insufficient instructions.

00:12:48   Because—

00:12:49   Oh, yeah. I think so, too. I mean, like, nobody—I mean, you have to do research in order to figure

00:12:54   out which thing you can use it on. Right. You have to do research to know which one.

00:12:57   How am I supposed to use the 70% isopropyl alcohol?

00:13:02   Do I—Am I supposed to apply a dab of it to this polishing cloth?

00:13:07   Well, usually, that's usually what they tell you to do, right? Because you don't want to

00:13:11   spray it on the thing because then it could drip down inside the—

00:13:13   Right. That's what I would—

00:13:14   —it works.

00:13:15   Yes. But I think they should tell you that and maybe have, like, a little—make it one of the

00:13:19   little pamphlets instead of just a single-sided card and show an illustration of it, you know,

00:13:25   that you would put just a smidge of the alcohol solution on the polishing cloth and then use that

00:13:32   to get off the—what, how do they describe it? Hard to remove smudges. Right.

00:13:37   I think they could—for a $19 polishing cloth that is seemingly mainly intended for use on a

00:13:47   $5,000 nanotextured display—

00:13:49   And can you—and then can you wash that thing?

00:13:53   Doesn't say. And I thought that, too.

00:13:56   That's another thing that's always confused me because I got—years and years ago—I mean,

00:13:59   I've had this stuff forever, but it's like, I got two sets of some sort of cleaning product

00:14:04   that's supposed to be safe to use on laptop screens because it doesn't have alcohol in it.

00:14:09   Does it come with—is it an orange cloth thing?

00:14:12   No, it's green.

00:14:12   But again, I got it, you know, during the Boer War. And I've never run out of it because I

00:14:22   use it. I just don't end up using it that much. But when I need it, I definitely need it because

00:14:26   someone has put a finger on my screen. And it said to make sure to spray it on the cloth.

00:14:32   But then—and I think it says you can just throw the cloths in the washing machine.

00:14:36   Because they're not suede. They're definitely fabric. I've never done it because I'm still,

00:14:42   for some reason, kind of scared. And I've never needed to, but I feel like it's getting to the

00:14:46   point where I've probably washed—cleaned the screen off too many times with them. And now I'm

00:14:51   just wetting gunk and putting it back on. So I may have to bite the bullet pretty soon to do that.

00:14:57   All right. The product I bought before, and I think I bought it from Apple or else somebody

00:15:04   told me that it is the brand that Apple themselves use in retail to clean all of the devices they

00:15:14   have on display. It's called Whoosh. W-H-O-O-S-H. Whoosh.com. And you buy it. It comes with a little

00:15:26   spray bottle. You can get a two-pack where one of them is sort of a bigger size and the other

00:15:34   one is more like a lipstick size that you could put in a laptop bag. They come with their own cloths.

00:15:41   They're orange cloths. They're very distinctive. And the two sides of the cloth have sort of a

00:15:47   different texture. One's a little bit softer and fuzzier, and the other side is a little

00:15:53   smoother, more like a T-shirt. Fuzzy side, T-shirt side. And their instructions are pretty—they're

00:16:04   much better than Apple's. And they tell you to spray onto the cloth, not the screen,

00:16:09   use one side to wipe the screen, and to—I forget exactly how they tell you to do it, but

00:16:17   they either tell you to go in circles or—I have to look it up every time I use it. They either

00:16:21   tell you to go in circles or tell you to go straight across, but they tell you which way to go.

00:16:25   And then to turn the cloth around after that pass and use the other side of the cloth to sort of

00:16:32   take a second pass and dry it off. And the solution is very safe for all—and they tell you,

00:16:40   they list all sorts of things that it is safe for. And it would be anything you would care to use it

00:16:46   for—plastic and glass and touch screens, and that it won't interfere with the oleophobic coating

00:16:52   on a phone, and you can use it on aluminum, and blah, blah, blah. That's what I expect from

00:17:00   Apple. I expect painstaking instructions to tell me exactly how to do it. That's the other thing

00:17:05   about the Apple cloth. It feels, as far as I can tell, it's exactly the same on both sides.

00:17:10   So anyway, I probably should have just stuck with whoosh.

00:17:15   But I got a podcast segment out of it, so maybe it was worth it.

00:17:22   Jared: I want to correct myself from earlier, because I said they'd never made a 14-inch,

00:17:27   the iBook G3 was a 14-inch. I was mostly talking about PowerBooks or Pro versions.

00:17:33   Brian Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:34   Jared The iBooks used to come in 12 and 14 inches.

00:17:37   Brian No, I think they—

00:17:39   Jared But they were square. Or, you know,

00:17:41   not square, but they were, the aspect ratio was very different.

00:17:44   Brian I don't think they made it,

00:17:45   maybe they did make a 12-inch. Yeah, they did.

00:17:49   Jared Yeah, they did. Yeah, because I remember,

00:17:51   because I had the 12, I had a 12-inch, this was back when I was, like, I bought a 12-inch for

00:17:56   travel. I had the titanium PowerBook and then I bought, this was before I had a kid.

00:18:02   Brian I remember I really wanted the 12-inch PowerBook,

00:18:08   but couldn't afford it. And so, I got the 12-inch iBook and was not so pleased with it. Like,

00:18:17   I didn't like the keys on that.

00:18:19   Jared Oh, yeah, they're pretty squishy.

00:18:21   Brian They were squishy and they kind of yellowed

00:18:25   quickly, you know, like they looked, it was one of those products that looked way better

00:18:30   in product photography than it did in real life. And I know that some people, you might think,

00:18:34   "Well, everything looks better in professional product photography," but that's not true.

00:18:38   Like, there are aspects of like the new MacBook Pro that, to me, look better in real life. Like,

00:18:45   with nice lighting, it's like, man, this looks even nicer in real life. You know,

00:18:49   you just can't even photograph like how nice the etching on the bottom of the name MacBook Pro

00:18:55   looks. It just, photographs don't do it. Just, those 12-inch iBook clear keyboard keycaps,

00:19:02   they look really bad in real life.

00:19:03   Jared Yeah. I always liked that generation,

00:19:06   though, because you could pop up the, you pop the keyboard up and then you get to have access to the

00:19:10   RAM and the airport card, I think.

00:19:12   Brian Yeah, that was, because I think you had to

00:19:14   pay extra for the airport card.

00:19:16   Jared Yeah, yeah, at least, yeah, the very beginning, at least. I can't remember if they

00:19:20   started in a clue, but you might have had to add it on as an option, yeah.

00:19:22   Brian Oh, we're getting old, John.

00:19:24   Airport cards.

00:19:26   All right, let me take a break. Thank our first sponsor. It's a memberful,

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00:19:51   They help you set up membership systems, and they're used by some of the biggest creators

00:19:57   on the entire web, and they have every—

00:19:58   Jared Like me, for example.

00:20:00   Brian Like—

00:20:00   Jared We use memberful on the rebound.

00:20:02   Brian There we go.

00:20:03   Jared For our subscription service.

00:20:04   Brian You have full control and ownership of your

00:20:06   audience, your brand, your membership. The memberful doesn't really insert themselves

00:20:11   in an obtrusive way that makes it seem like everything's going through them. They keep

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00:20:21   get started for free with no credit card required. I just checked. I looked at my email before we

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00:20:33   all sorts of podcasts from our friends at Relay.fm. The list goes on and on. And as

00:20:39   Moltz just said, the rebound, which is—

00:20:41   Jared That's right.

00:20:42   Brian Which is a podcast.

00:20:44   Jared Which is a podcast you can listen to.

00:20:45   Brian It's a podcast you can listen to.

00:20:47   Again, you can get started for free, no credit card required, and here's what you do. Visit

00:20:52   memberful, that's F-U-L, member, F-U-L, dot com slash talk show today. Memberful dot com slash

00:21:01   talk show. And sign up, you know, pay for the rebound. Give the rebound a surprising talk show

00:21:06   spike of sign ups and have them say, "What the hell just happened?" And Moltz will say, "This is—

00:21:12   Jared Exactly. Yeah, no, that sounds great for me. Also, I will say that it's really great to use. I

00:21:16   mean, we've really, I mean, it's been super easy, and we wouldn't use anything else, honestly.

00:21:22   Brian Everybody I know who uses it swears by it, and they don't even really look back. It's great

00:21:26   stuff. What's up next on the review schedule? I got to do a whole separate episode on the MacBook Pro.

00:21:34   Jared Pro, yeah.

00:21:34   Brian And so, for people who go, if you're going through this thinking, well,

00:21:37   Gruber's got to talk about the MacBook Pro because the reviews just came out like two days ago,

00:21:42   and he wrote a long review, and everybody's talking about it. They're very interesting

00:21:46   machines, and we could talk about them a little, but I got to do a whole show about that. The other

00:21:50   product—

00:21:50   Jared And I don't have one.

00:21:51   Brian You don't have one, so what the hell are you going to say?

00:21:53   Jared No, no. And I'm not getting one. I'll just say that right now. I have

00:21:56   an M1 MacBook Air, and that is perfect for my needs.

00:21:59   Brian Yeah, you should think about some Woosh, though. Not a sponsor. Not a sponsor, but should

00:22:07   be. Woosh, come to me.

00:22:09   Jared I guess I'm not allowed—can you only buy that cloth as an add-on?

00:22:12   Brian You know, I think they do sell it separately.

00:22:16   Jared Will they even sell me one is my question.

00:22:18   Brian I keep wanting to call it the cleaning cloth, but they call it the polishing cloth.

00:22:23   It's a polishing cloth.

00:22:25   Jared Okay.

00:22:26   Brian Nineteen bucks. I'll try to put a link in the show notes.

00:22:28   No, but next up is a product I have had, and I hinted at it a segment ago, and have not written

00:22:35   about because I've been too busy writing about the MacBook Pro, but the AirPods third generation.

00:22:43   Now, you do have these.

00:22:44   Jared These I do have. This is the one thing that I bought

00:22:47   from last week's announcements.

00:22:49   Brian I'm curious what you think.

00:22:50   Jared I like them. I had the first generation and

00:22:54   the second generation. I've never had the Pros before, so this has some of the features

00:22:57   of the Pros that I'm really kind of enjoying. They are larger in my ears, which is interesting.

00:23:04   I wasn't really even expecting that. I knew that they would be shorter, but I didn't know that they

00:23:09   were sort of physically larger in the ear area. And so far, so good. I was kind of wondering if

00:23:16   that would, you know, make my ears ache after a little while, but I wore them for a significant

00:23:22   amount of time today, and it seemed basically fine. So that was good. And I really like the

00:23:27   clicky thing. I mean, that took me a little while to figure out. I was, I think, you know,

00:23:34   they always pop up those things that say, "Do you want to learn more about your device or your new

00:23:39   software or whatever it is?" And I have a tendency to dismiss them, and then I can never find them

00:23:43   again. Of course, of course, there is an app, right? I think there's like, there's an app

00:23:48   someplace where that shows up, and I never, I can never find it. I'm sure that happened, and I

00:23:54   clicked past it just to, you know, get to the point where I could actually start listening to things

00:23:57   and then was like, "Oh, how do I advance songs and stuff like that?" I did eventually circle back and

00:24:04   figure that out. I do the same thing where I'm like, "Well, look, I'm an expert, you know,

00:24:09   have you heard of, have you heard of Daring the Fireball?" I saw the presentation. I should know

00:24:14   how those works, but I forgot. I watched the presentation live with a notebook taking copious

00:24:20   notes of everything they said. Why in the world would I need to do this? And it turns out that

00:24:25   they go pretty fast and you don't remember everything they say, and you end up not knowing

00:24:31   how to pause a song. Right. I have, I own a pair of the AirPods Pro, and I love them and prefer them

00:24:43   and preferred them instantly over my regular older AirPods. And is that for functionality or

00:24:50   fit? It was every, for me, it was every single thing about them. I enjoyed the fit once I got

00:24:58   used to it. And I know, to me, the big fundamental difference is, well, at a feature level, it's the

00:25:06   noise cancellation that the AirPods Pro have and the regular AirPods don't. But I don't think it's

00:25:11   possible to do the noise cancellation without the sealed style of buds. And the sealed—

00:25:19   Well, unless it's over the ear, yeah. Right, right. But if you're talking about AirPods

00:25:24   or buds or any kind of bud-type-sized thing, it's either sealed or not sealed.

00:25:30   Years ago, I mean, again, to go down memory lane, I got a pair of Shure earbuds with noise

00:25:39   cancellation. I may have talked to you about that on this show. It was a gift in the gift bag from

00:25:44   MacWorld Expo. And it was one of those things. It might have been the first year that I was a

00:25:52   speaker at MacWorld Expo. I'd always heard that, like, at the Oscars, for example, they give people

00:25:57   these gift bags with absurdly expensive gifts in them. I didn't know. I had no idea that MacWorld

00:26:04   Expo gave me anything. All I thought was, "Well, I get a free pass." And I should—speaking to the

00:26:11   MacWorld audience would be good for my professional stature, for lack of a better word. This is

00:26:18   something I should do. And I go there and I register for the pass. They give me this bag

00:26:22   full of stuff. And I'm like, "What the hell?" And I start looking through it. And I was ready

00:26:27   to ditch it all. And there's a backpack. And it's like, "Well, I don't even have room to go home

00:26:32   with this huge backpack." But I found the Shure headphones. And I was like, "Sure, that's a good

00:26:38   brand." And I looked it up and they were like $400 earbuds. I was like, "I would never spend $400

00:26:44   on these things." But they were noise canceling and had the seal. And similar to AirPods,

00:26:52   when you open it up, there were four different style of rubber tips that you were encouraged to,

00:26:59   if you find the default ones uncomfortable, try these larger and smaller and a differently shaped

00:27:06   mushroom end that you would squeeze in your ear canal. And I used those for years and years on

00:27:14   airplanes because the noise canceling is great on airplanes. And for me, the earbuds that go in your

00:27:22   ear are way more comfortable for a five-hour flight than over-the-ear type things that make

00:27:29   my ears sweat. I have the opposite experience, personally. I've never had success with those

00:27:35   things that go in your ear canal. Now, I think Paul and other people have suggested getting the

00:27:40   foam tips because you can get third-party foam tips for the AirPods. I have not tried that.

00:27:48   I certainly haven't tried it with AirPods Pro because I don't have it. But I don't have AirPods

00:27:53   Pro because those things have never really worked for me. That's a friend of the show,

00:27:57   friend of the family, Paul Kifasis of Rogue Amoeba fame. Yeah, there's a whole cottage industry and

00:28:04   the third-party foam style tips for AirPods. That's one of the nice things about Apple getting

00:28:12   popular and having so few products that they only make three styles of AirPods and only one of them

00:28:20   takes tips. I don't know if you heard, they were only repeated it about seven times last week in

00:28:25   the keynote. They are the best-selling headphones in the world. So it makes sense that there'd be

00:28:30   this whole cottage industry of $10, $5, $7 foam tips that you can buy from Amazon. I bought the

00:28:39   other day from Amazon. This is a total tangent, but I feel like it's the same way with the

00:28:44   foam tips. I am always losing the SIM card popper routers. You know what I mean?

00:28:54   I don't know. Whatever you call it. Even though I get...

00:28:57   That's the year about right.

00:28:57   I get more of them sent to me by Apple than just about anybody because I buy new iPhones every year

00:29:05   from me and the wife. I always buy them now with the idea that we're just going to swap the SIM

00:29:13   card from our old phones into new phones because that always works better for me. We've had so many

00:29:17   problems over the years when you transfer your line over and Verizon system doesn't even know

00:29:24   what phone you bought. We just pop the SIM out. When you buy a phone that isn't already on

00:29:29   Verizon or AT&T or T-Mobile, they send you an iPhone that comes with an Apple SIM card popper

00:29:35   router. They're so tiny and I lose them. But in review season, I'm popping SIMs out of phones

00:29:43   all the time. It's like I work at a phone store because I'm like, "I should go back to the...

00:29:48   I have my old phone, my new phone, four review phones, and if I want to test something on the

00:29:56   iPhone 13 mini, and it's like, "Well, if I'm going to use it for a day, I should put my SIM in it,"

00:30:01   and I can't find the damn SIM popper routers. So I went and looked on Amazon to see if there was one.

00:30:07   I was like, "They should make a big one that I wouldn't lose, more like a pen." You know what

00:30:12   I mean? With a tip. You could always attach a giant brush to it or something. They do it

00:30:18   for the key at a rest stop. I have tried putting them on a ring and I have kept that one, the one

00:30:26   I put on a key ring. But I just popped into my head to look on Amazon. And of course, there's

00:30:31   a gazillion of them and they are insanely cheap. But the one that I picked, I swear to God, it was

00:30:38   like four bucks, free Prime shipping, two-day, three-day, whatever. But it included 10 other

00:30:49   styles of SIM card popper. Two of these ones that look like a little tool, almost like a golf pencil

00:30:56   size with a SIM popper out around the end. But they also had a bunch of the ones that are more

00:31:02   like paperclips, more like the ones Apple includes. But— I mean, isn't the tip the same on all of

00:31:10   them? They're just different handles? Yeah, just different handles.

00:31:13   Wow. Hold on, hold on. You gotta see it.

00:31:17   I have a little box on my desk and every time I get a new iPhone, I pull that thing out and I put

00:31:22   it in the box on my desk. And I'll lose a few over the years, you know, but usually there's at least

00:31:28   two in there at any given time. Here we go. I'm sending you a link.

00:31:34   Oh my God. Are these repurposed dental tools or something?

00:31:43   It is the A-Y-W-F-E-Y. I don't know what if—

00:31:51   You see, this is $7 and it's 16 different SIM card poppers. And they're all—the tip's the same on

00:32:01   all of them. That's wild. Of the 16 SIM popper routers, four of them basically look like Apples.

00:32:08   Two of them are the little golf pencil style ones that I was—the whole reason I bought the damn

00:32:14   thing. And I would have bought it just to get—I would have paid seven bucks for one of them.

00:32:18   But, you know, why not pay seven bucks and get two of the ones I wanted? But then there's two each

00:32:24   of a variety of other styles. Yeah. Some of them look like guitar picks.

00:32:31   Yes, yes. The guitar picks. Well, there's like a solid guitar pick, a hollow guitar pick.

00:32:37   I don't know. I mean—

00:32:40   Some ellipses, two ellipses, two T-shaped ones that are hollow, hollowed out Ts.

00:32:47   And then the things that look like the sliders you put over your laptop camera.

00:32:51   Anyway, it's like if you need—if you're dissatisfied with your SIM card popper router

00:32:57   lifestyle—

00:32:58   Or you can't find it.

00:32:59   Yeah. You're five or six bucks away from anything you want. And I feel the same way with the

00:33:06   foam tips for AirPods. You can find replacements if you like foam instead of rubber. But the big

00:33:13   fundamental problem with the whole concept is there are a lot of people who do not like

00:33:17   anything sealed in their ear canal, whether it's a physical thing or a mental thing.

00:33:23   For me, it's not the comfort of it, per se. It's the fact that they just keep sliding out,

00:33:27   and then it doesn't work right anymore, particularly for the noise cancellation.

00:33:32   I might be misremembering, but my friend, our friend, everybody's friend,

00:33:36   Ben Thompson, who I do the other show with, he just cannot stand it, right? It's just—

00:33:42   it's just a non-starter for him to have a sealed ear canal.

00:33:46   So as a year-long or two years long—I don't know how long the AirPods Pro came out,

00:33:54   probably two years ago—as a longtime AirPods Pro user, using the new third-generation AirPods

00:34:01   for a week was very familiar because everything about them works like the AirPods Pro, where you

00:34:09   have a little clicky thing on each earbud that you can do things. You know you can go into settings,

00:34:13   too, and change it so that left and right do different things?

00:34:16   Well, yeah, I mean, that I knew from previous AirPods.

00:34:21   And ever since I've been using them, the old style of AirPod controls, where you tap your ear,

00:34:26   seems so crude and primitive.

00:34:30   And it was impossible to go back.

00:34:34   And I never liked it. I never really liked it because it always felt like I was pushing it.

00:34:38   You know, like tapping my ear, which felt like an unnatural thing to do.

00:34:43   Right. It was like the AirPods equivalent of "shake to undo" on the iPhone, where it just

00:34:51   felt like if you deleted text you didn't mean to delete. Shaking your iPhone like you're getting

00:34:58   ready to pop open some champagne because you just won a championship—it just felt so stupid.

00:35:04   It honestly feels like, not to be crude, a rude hand gesture.

00:35:08   Just a gesture you might not make in front of children.

00:35:14   And that's how you undo. Tapping your ear, it's like, imagine if there was a feature where

00:35:22   if you banged your head against the trackpad, you entered full screen mode.

00:35:28   Everything reboots?

00:35:30   Yeah. But if you want to enter full screen mode on Mac OS X, just bang your head against the trackpad.

00:35:36   You don't have to bang it hard. But it still would feel like, "Why am I doing this? Why am I banging

00:35:44   my AirPods?" And the other thing in hindsight, once you never have to tap your AirPods again to

00:35:49   do anything, you realize how it always felt to me like you were also risking popping the AirPod out.

00:35:55   That you would tap it, and it would rebound and pop out of your ear.

00:36:01   I find spending a week with these AirPod third-generation ones, the thing for me is that I'm so

00:36:08   used to the sealed ear canal that they constantly felt like they were on the cusp of falling out.

00:36:14   No, really.

00:36:15   Yeah, I think that all—and a lot of that just depends on people's—people have different ears.

00:36:23   I've just gotten to the point where that's the only way I can explain it. And some people like

00:36:27   the ear canal ones, and other people like the other kind. And my ears are meant to use this

00:36:37   particular kind. And I've never really had—if I'm taking a shirt off over my head, yeah, then

00:36:43   the AirPods will come out. But other than that, I've run in them, I've run wearing them, and

00:36:50   I've never had one just fall out accidentally like that.

00:36:53   Right, and I wear them in the winter with a winter hat that covers my ears, keep my ears warm. They

00:36:59   don't fall out. I've never really had a problem with AirPods falling out, but it was just an

00:37:04   uncanny feeling because I had been so used to the sealed thing. But as a product, I don't think

00:37:09   that's a problem at all. I'm clearly, as a person on Team Sealed Ear Canal, and anybody who's not

00:37:19   either doesn't own AirPods Pro because they know it, or they gave them away, or sold them,

00:37:26   or returned them to Apple or something because they found them unpleasant, right? So anybody

00:37:30   who's already got AirPods Pro and is happy with them is definitely not in the market for the

00:37:37   regular AirPod third generation. What else? It's nice that they have unified on the MagSafe/Cheat

00:37:48   charging cases and that they don't upsell you on those.

00:37:51   Yeah, so this is my first that's actually Cheat charging because when I got the second generation

00:37:55   ones, I just stuck with the Lightning charging. And so that's been nice too. And I don't have an

00:38:01   extra MagSafe connector lying around anywhere, but I've got plenty of Cheat chargers lying around, so

00:38:09   I was able to just put a Cheat charger on my nightstand. And so now when I go to bed, I just

00:38:13   put the case on the Cheat charger. It would be cool. I mean, I tried it on the MagSafe one that

00:38:17   I put my iPhone on and it's like just hanging there in midair was kind of cool, but I'm not

00:38:24   going to run out and buy another MagSafe charger just to do that probably.

00:38:28   I actually find that for charging, it's my, what do I have that charges by Cheat? I have phones

00:38:35   and I think that's it. Then the only things I have are my AirPod cases and the phones. I like

00:38:43   it better for AirPods than the phone because I don't really need the AirPods. The problem with

00:38:49   AirPods is that the batteries last so long, especially for the case, that it was easy when

00:38:56   I first got them, when there was no MagSafe for Cheat charging case, it was easy to forget about

00:39:02   it for a week. And then you do get that sad little bloop, bloop. And you're like, "Oh, I guess

00:39:09   the batteries finally did run out." Whereas now it is so easy to be completely lazy and just put

00:39:15   them on a Cheat charger on your bedside or on your desk. And it's like for me, the case never

00:39:21   even gets close to 50% because I've just... And then it's also a nice way, it's like having a

00:39:28   little box for your keys so you never lose your keys when you come home because you always put

00:39:32   them in the same place. It's like I actually stopped losing my AirPod cases or mis... You're

00:39:38   not losing losing, but misplacing where the hell did I leave them because I just tend to leave it

00:39:42   on the Cheat charger on my desk or on my bedside. What else do I have?

00:39:50   Yeah, I mean, it's always nice to take away those failure points.

00:39:55   Have you tried the new Find My stuff?

00:39:58   No, I have not yet.

00:40:02   That's sort of the direct consequence of the previous. I used to misplace my AirPods

00:40:10   more frequently before Cheat charging than I do now because I just tend to know the couple of

00:40:16   places around the house where I have a charging pad and that's where my AirPods tend to be.

00:40:20   But I tried it out. It's pretty cool. They don't have... What are they called? The location chip?

00:40:27   What's that called?

00:40:31   I forget which number it is.

00:40:32   Yeah, but whatever that chip is that lets find my do remarkably accurate location of a device.

00:40:40   But it's fine. It was like I pretended I left them in my bedroom. I knew they were in my bedroom,

00:40:51   but I was testing out the Find My and it got me closer. It took longer. It was like looking for

00:40:56   a signal. This might take a while. Wait, wait, wait. It was certainly better than not having

00:41:00   it and it definitely worked. And the phone got very excited like a dog when you come home.

00:41:06   It got very excited when it got near the AirPods. It was like, "I've got it."

00:41:14   Yeah, I don't lose mine. I mean, so you know that little coin pocket or whatever it is in jeans.

00:41:20   I'm always wearing jeans and actually even the khakis that I have have the same pocket,

00:41:27   but in just a different spot. I stick my AirPods in there and so the case is always in there during

00:41:32   the day and I know where it is. And I put the AirPods in and then I put the case back in my

00:41:39   pocket. And then at night I take it out of the pocket and put it in the charging stand.

00:41:42   Yeah, I don't lose them often, but it's nice to have if you do.

00:41:46   Yeah. I mean, Karen loses hers all the time because women's clothes don't have pockets.

00:41:54   She's at an unfair disadvantage. We laugh, but it is true.

00:41:58   Yeah, it's true. Or they have pockets that just don't even fit in AirPods case and it's not quite

00:42:06   sure. Or don't hold things in very well either. Right. So it's nice to have. I think aesthetically,

00:42:14   I never bought into the people look silly wearing AirPods thing. I was thinking about that before

00:42:21   we recorded that. Remember when AirPods were new five years ago, that was like a big thing. People

00:42:27   look so stupid with AirPods. I never quite got that. It felt weird to me wearing them,

00:42:33   but I didn't think other people looked stupid wearing them because they looked exactly like

00:42:38   wired earbuds that people had been using at least from Apple for like 20 years just without the

00:42:46   wires. So if you don't look stupid wearing the same size or almost exactly the same size white

00:42:56   buds in your ear with a white cable streaming out of both of them, how do you look stupid if you

00:43:03   just cut the cables off? I never got it, but some people thought people looked weird. But I do think

00:43:09   the newer look initiated by the pros and now followed by the new third generation regular

00:43:16   AirPods where the stem is shorter, I think it does look better. I think it does too. Yeah. I would

00:43:21   still like if there was a color option, I'd probably go with a different color than white, but

00:43:25   they're fine. I mean, they're better now. The first time I was, I don't know if it was exactly

00:43:32   the first, but one of the first few times I wore AirPods outside of the house was, I think it was

00:43:36   walking the dog or something. And this guy stopped me and said, "Oh, you got those AirPods, huh?"

00:43:40   I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "How do you like them?" I thought, "I love them. I think they're

00:43:44   great." And he's like, "They look ridiculous." I said, "Okay, but they're really good."

00:43:50   My friend Dave Whiskus, who I did the Vesper app with, he bought them right away and said,

00:43:57   "I'm not going to return them. I'm going to use them because I love using them, but I feel like

00:44:03   I look stupid with them." And that he'd be walking down the street and see somebody else with AirPods

00:44:10   and think, "Boy, they look stupid." And then realize, "Oh, I've got them in right now."

00:44:14   And he said he just constantly felt self-conscious about it. But it must be true. I don't really

00:44:19   remember. I remember when the Sony Walkman was new and desperately wanted one. And of course,

00:44:27   they were very expensive. It was the iPod of its day. And it took a couple, just a handful of years

00:44:34   for Walkman-sized personal cassette players to get down to the price where somebody, my parents,

00:44:44   would buy them for me as a then whatever 10, 11-year-old. But I'll bet that there was that

00:44:51   sort of reaction to them at that time when people, all of a sudden, people are on the New York City

00:44:59   subway and they've got a Sony Walkman. And it's like, "Look at that idiot. He's got two orange

00:45:04   Nerf balls on his ears." Right? And- Yeah, I mean, people are always going to make,

00:45:09   you know, anytime there's something new, there's going to be a bunch of people that make fun of it.

00:45:13   But like Walkman-style, the initial Walkman-style headphones, the ones, you know what I mean? They

00:45:19   had Nerf balls on the end. Yeah, I mean, I don't remember there being other kinds. All the headphones

00:45:26   that I had prior to that were over-the-ear types. And then those were on-ear. They were way more,

00:45:33   even without making an aesthetic judgment, they were certainly more obvious, right? You know,

00:45:43   they're far from subtle. You had like a headband over the top of your head and orange foam.

00:45:49   You know, and eventually they made other colors other than orange. But there must have been that

00:45:53   type of reaction to that too by people who were not the early adopter mindset, who was like,

00:45:58   "I don't know. I'm a little bored right now and I might enjoy listening to music,

00:46:02   but I'm not going to look stupid with those." I know. I mean, we had one and I don't remember

00:46:11   that. But of course, you know, we were kids when we got it. And it was, you know, like if you were

00:46:16   in high school or something, junior high school, none of the kids were going to think that because

00:46:23   they were like, "Oh my God, you've got to walk, man." Right. You can listen to music.

00:46:26   Walking down the hall. They should have had podcasts back then. You just mail them out.

00:46:34   We could have just— We were just cassette tapes.

00:46:36   Yeah, just mail them out on cassette tapes.

00:46:38   Isn't that what AM radio was?

00:46:40   Yeah, and you could just, you know, and you could just, you know, encourage people. You know,

00:46:44   it'd be sort of like the Grateful Dead where you would encourage people to make copies for

00:46:48   your friends. You know, if you've got a copy of episode, you know, whatever of the talk show from

00:46:55   1986, then, you know, make as many copies as you want. You know, hand them out to your local Mac

00:47:01   user group. I remember trying to tape songs off the radio by just putting a tape recorder up to

00:47:08   the speaker because they had no other way of getting off the radio. Oh, man. That was—

00:47:14   Amy and I talk about it all the time. That was a feature of the boom boxes of the era. Those big

00:47:19   panels, those Panasonic silver plastic boom boxes where they had both a tape player and a radio.

00:47:27   If you hit record while the radio was playing, it would record the radio to the tape directly,

00:47:32   you know, without any kind of— And that was easy.

00:47:35   So you get the song you want without the first, like, five seconds.

00:47:38   You'd get it without the first five seconds. Sometimes they would tell you,

00:47:42   like, the disc jockey would say, "Hey, stick around. We're going to take a break. But when

00:47:47   we come back, we've got the new Cyndi Lauper." And you'd be like, "Ah, that's one of them I've

00:47:52   been waiting for. I've been waiting to get a—girls just want to have fun." And so you'd have your

00:47:58   finger on it ready to go when he came back. But then it's like, a lot of times they would start

00:48:04   the song and the stupid disc jockey would keep talking about the weather or whatever,

00:48:09   you know, and telling you, you know, "We'll have a traffic break in 20 seconds." It's like,

00:48:13   "Shut up! The song started!" You know? But it was a way you could collect music at a,

00:48:21   you know, what was then a very high quality, quote unquote, "for free."

00:48:26   Actually, it never even occurred to me that it might be illegal. I actually didn't even think

00:48:29   of that as—I did not—at the time, I didn't think of it as piracy. I'm not sure what—

00:48:35   Recording off the radio? Yeah.

00:48:37   I mean, it didn't occur to me, of course. I mean, I was, what, 12? I wasn't looking into it.

00:48:42   If I could do it, I would do it.

00:48:44   Like, I think everybody knew, once MP3s became a thing, that if you were downloading

00:48:49   songs from Napster, you knew you were technically breaking the law.

00:48:54   And I think they had these things in certain cities here, too. But when I went to Japan,

00:49:00   my junior year in college, they had—right next to the university where I was—they had a place where

00:49:05   you could rent records. So you'd go in and rent a record and then take it home and tape it and then

00:49:12   turn the record. Which obviously, you know, I mean, that's what everybody was doing. And I was always

00:49:19   sort of surprised by that. Like, "Is this okay?" I was like, "Yeah, that's what they do here." So,

00:49:25   yeah, so I did it as much as I possibly could while I was there.

00:49:29   And it would also put it in a way more, like, binary, "Is it portable or not portable?"

00:49:35   Right? Like, nobody had a record player in their car. I don't think. I don't know.

00:49:40   Jared: I bet there were. I think I've seen that. There were definitely some crazy cars in the '60s.

00:49:46   But they had turntables. But can you imagine driving around with a turntable going?

00:49:50   Pete: How slow you would have to drive.

00:49:52   Jared. How would that work? Yeah.

00:49:53   Pete. You would have to go so slow to keep it from skipping.

00:50:02   You mentioned the colors. That's an interesting thing that I, spending a week with another new

00:50:09   set of AirPods and thinking about it. And I'm, it is very curious. So, they make the AirPods Max,

00:50:20   the big over-the-ear ones, in a variety of colors. But the regular AirPods, they've never made in any

00:50:29   color other than white. And that goes back all the way to when they were just AirPods, you know,

00:50:35   with wires. Why do you think that is?

00:50:40   Jared. I don't know. I mean, it might just be a branding thing in order for,

00:50:44   but I guess, so like with the over-the-ear ones, they're obviously Apple, right? There's a logo on

00:50:54   them. Pete.

00:50:55   Is there? I don't think there is. I think that they count on them being a sort of iconic shape.

00:51:00   I don't think there's a logo. The logo's inside the ear cup. It's in the mesh on the inside of

00:51:06   the ear cup.

00:51:07   Jared. Well, and I mean, I guess like if you know what the difference between

00:51:12   expensive earphones, you wouldn't, you know, headphones, you would know that those are AirPods

00:51:17   Max, but I don't think most people would. So, then that takes away my thesis, which is basically that

00:51:24   it was a branding concept because I don't, I, maybe it still is. I mean, maybe the white still

00:51:30   is like, they want people, they want other people to know that you're using Apple products, I guess.

00:51:34   Pete Yeah. I think it's, I think it fundamentally is a branding thing. And that's why I think Apple,

00:51:39   you're never going to get them to explain it. Like if, you know, I could ask Jaws about it in an

00:51:45   on-stage interview and he's not going to say, I'm not, he's not going to get rude and say, well,

00:51:51   F you, I'm not going to answer that, but he's going to talk around it. You know, he's, he's

00:51:55   not going to give a straightforward answer because they don't explain branding decisions externally

00:52:01   ever. But I think that the branding explanation would be AirPods Max are an iconic shape and

00:52:09   therefore they can make them in any colors they want. And they're just, I don't think most,

00:52:15   I don't think most people know what AirPods Max look like though. Yeah. Most people probably

00:52:19   don't, but people who might be in the market for them do. Right. Right. Yes. And with the regular

00:52:26   AirPods and EarPods going all the way back to the iPod, you know, and they made the, they started

00:52:32   making iPods in various colors very quickly. Right. You know, we're just celebrated the,

00:52:37   the 20th anniversary of the original iPod last week. It didn't take long. And, you know,

00:52:44   you could have it in any color you wanted if it was white. It didn't take long for them to get to

00:52:50   the iPod mini and then the iPod nano, which always came in a variety of very fun anodized aluminum

00:53:00   colors, but they always shipped. You could buy a red one or a blue one or a green one,

00:53:05   and it came with white AirPods. And I think that the branding logic of it is we're going to own

00:53:13   this one color. It's the one neutral, it's the neutral color for distinctive earbuds. Black

00:53:21   would be the other option for something neutral, but A, wouldn't have gone with the original

00:53:27   iPod. And B, just isn't Apple-y, right? Like there's something, like Sony stuff would,

00:53:40   has often been black, right? Like if you think back to any Sony home equipment you've had,

00:53:46   PlayStations are black. We had a Sony DVD player or Blu-ray player for years. I had a Sony receiver.

00:53:56   They were always black. That was just the Sony look. It's sort of a serious,

00:54:00   you know, I don't know. It connotes a different feeling than white. It would be weird. Like if

00:54:08   you were back in, let's say, 2004 and you were buying a Blu-ray player or DVD player,

00:54:15   if Sony made one and it was the whole thing, it was meant to go underneath your TV, it would be

00:54:20   weird if it was white. It just wouldn't feel like a Sony product. Although I guess now they, what,

00:54:25   the PS5 is white? Yeah. You know, I think they've had certain color options for different, I mean,

00:54:31   certainly in like mobile players and things like that. With Apple, I feel like with the AirPods,

00:54:36   black earbuds would have never looked distinctive because so many earbuds were already black,

00:54:41   right? If you just go into the store and say, "Hey, I need a pair of your, you know, I'm in

00:54:45   the airport. I need headphones." What color are they? They're almost certainly black. The free

00:54:49   ones. When you're on an airplane and they give you earbuds to use in the entertainment console.

00:54:55   I don't even know if they do that anymore. I mean, who needs their stuff for that? But if you do,

00:55:02   I guarantee you they're black. So black didn't make sense as the Apple's default color. White,

00:55:06   therefore it was. And then once they became a popular thing, I mean, remember they ran those

00:55:12   ad campaigns where they were just like silhouettes of people and all you would see are white earbuds

00:55:18   coming out and a cable coming out. And they didn't even have to show the iPod. People just knew,

00:55:24   "Oh, that's for Apple's iPod." And I just feel like they feel like that's a thing that they own

00:55:30   and that sure, they can't stop other companies like Samsung or whoever else from making white

00:55:38   earbuds. And of course, many other companies do now. But I feel like they feel like they know

00:55:46   and everybody else knows they're ripping us off. Yeah, I assume. Yeah, I haven't looked. I mean,

00:55:52   I'm looking at the ones that Microsoft makes and the ones that Google makes. I'm sure there are

00:55:58   ones that Samsung makes that look almost exactly like earbuds. But the Google ones and the

00:56:04   Microsoft ones look different, or at least different enough. The Google ones are white,

00:56:08   but I don't think anyone would miss, well, I don't know. I mean, somebody might, but most people

00:56:12   would not mistake them for earbuds. So I feel like they could go with other colors, but they're

00:56:17   definitely not. They are moving into another color phase currently. And I think it's possible that

00:56:26   they could reconsider that as part of this new phase because they might ship them in iMac

00:56:32   style colors, but I suspect not. If you could get them in another color, what color would you want?

00:56:38   Maybe that blue, the new iPhone, or I mean, I really liked the product red. I went out at

00:56:46   iPhone SE, the current generation of iPhone SE for a while. That red was really nice, actually.

00:56:52   Yeah. And I don't know if I would get black, honestly. If the case came in black,

00:56:58   I might do that because the white always gets really blue because I keep it in my jeans all the

00:57:02   time. My second generation case looks like crap. My stuff always gets blue too, everything,

00:57:09   especially AirPod cases, because nine months of the year, I'm wearing blue jeans every single day.

00:57:17   That was, and that was when I was checking out with these, I wanted to do engraving. I wanted

00:57:22   to just put my initials on it or something like that. And it timed out on the engraving,

00:57:25   and I was kind of worried like, "Oh, geez, I don't want to not get these on day one." So I just

00:57:31   skipped the engraving and just went ahead and bought them. And then later I thought it was like,

00:57:37   "It's going to be fine," because first of all, the case size is different than all the—Karen's

00:57:41   got the older generation, so I'm not going to confuse it that way. But if she ever gets them,

00:57:45   mine are going to be blue. I guess it's also a logistics issue.

00:57:51   I mean, I know they do it with AirPods Max, and they have the colors, and they did it with iPods,

00:57:57   as we just said. But at some level, Tim Cook's got to be happier. Tim Cook and Jeff Williams

00:58:02   are happier if the product marketing people are like, "You know what? Once again, we're sticking

00:58:07   with white." Well, and I know you don't want to talk about the MacBook Pro, but the cable is only

00:58:13   in one color, right? Yes. Oh, man. It's a nice touch. We've got good friends, and a friend of

00:58:20   the show, Jason Snell, texted me after our reviews came out and said, "Damn it, I wish I'd mentioned

00:58:28   the thing about the cable, too." And it's the best compliment, right? Because I often, you know,

00:58:35   I'll do the same for him or Panzerino or anybody else when they make a point in a review. I'm like,

00:58:41   "Oh, I even had that in my notes, and I forgot to put it in my review." It irks me because these are

00:58:46   the multi-thousand dollar laptops. And I think space gray is the better color, in my opinion,

00:58:54   or at least I like it better. And it comes with a silver MagSafe connector and a white cable.

00:59:00   And the other thing that really is sort of like salt in the wound is they just shipped those

00:59:07   colorful iMacs six months ago, and they each come with color-coordinated power cables.

00:59:16   And color-coordinated lightning cables with a nice braided, this nice braided fabric. So,

00:59:23   if you get an orange iMac, you get an orange lightning cable. So, you can definitely do it,

00:59:29   and these are more expensive machines than the iMacs. I don't know.

00:59:35   Jared: Yeah. I mean, the color stuff, like most of the color stuff, the bright color stuff is

00:59:44   usually for the non-pro devices, so it makes a little bit of sense, but I mean,

00:59:50   at least it's slightly consistent. I don't know if it makes sense, but it's consistent.

00:59:55   Pete: All right, let me take a break to thank our next sponsor, Sir Good Friends at LinkedIn.

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01:01:34   The one other thing I was going to mention is that they ship—and maybe they did this with the

01:01:38   pros too, but this was the first one for me that they shipped with a USB-C to Lightning cable

01:01:45   inside the box, which was nice because that's the kind that I actually need now because I don't have

01:01:50   many of those. And the previous ones were A to Lightning.

01:01:55   And they've started that with the watch too, right? And this has been a very tricky—I

01:02:02   wouldn't want to manage it. That's not fun. A fun part of maybe designing products at Apple would be

01:02:09   the argument over, "Hey, should we make product red AirPods? Should we make bright red earbuds?

01:02:17   I don't know." And you can have fun mocking them up and doing it. Managing the logistics of how

01:02:23   do we move a billion users from USB-A cables to Lightning to USB-C or the same thing with the

01:02:31   watch. And when do we do it? Should we do it now in 2019? Maybe it's too soon. I don't know. But

01:02:37   we're not selling any MacBooks with USB-A ports anymore, and people do charge these things from

01:02:43   their ports on their MacBook. I don't know. Are they moving too fast?

01:02:47   I don't. I mean, I would never charge my AirPods that way, honestly. I don't think I would ever do

01:02:51   that. I mean, in a very rare circumstance would I do that. I just need the cable for other stuff,

01:02:57   mostly for connecting my iPhone. I've run into that situation. This is one of

01:03:01   those things now where we're so far into the pandemic and having done so little travel,

01:03:06   a couple of brief months over the summer where we felt safe and we did. But it feels like another

01:03:12   era, like black and white TV and listening to FM radio and taping cassettes. Remember traveling and

01:03:22   going places? The thing I remember just many, many times over the years realizing that my laptop bag

01:03:31   backpack or sling bag, whatever I was carrying at the time, didn't have enough chargers or

01:03:36   something. But it's like I always have a MacBook or going back far enough, a PowerBook or something.

01:03:42   Wouldn't forget that charger. And if I had a cable, I could plug it in and charge other devices

01:03:49   from the MacBook ports while traveling. It just seems weird though. We're at the point now where

01:03:55   USB-A seems old. And I know it's one of those things that like VGA ports, never ever going to

01:04:05   actually die. Somebody out there still is using a projector somewhere with VGA out.

01:04:11   USB-A ports are going to be places built into chairs at the airport or any of the various

01:04:21   places where people have put them. You're going to be running into them for a decade, two decades

01:04:26   at least. But they seem old, right? The watch charger thing was interesting because they

01:04:36   advertised that the new Series 7 watches charge faster with the new charging puck. But only with

01:04:45   that new charging puck that has USB-C at the end. But it's confusing because they previously made

01:04:51   a charging puck with a USB-C port at the end. I guess last year, I don't even remember it.

01:04:56   And they're not labeled, of course, because they're Apple products. There's nothing labeling it.

01:05:01   And they're like, "You got to use the new one if you want the faster charging. Don't use the old

01:05:05   one." But it does charge faster, I'll just say. Not to go on an Apple Watch Series 7 side note, but

01:05:12   I did a side-by-side. I don't do a lot of those sort of, "Hey, run the battery down and see how

01:05:16   long it takes to charge." But the watch charge is so small and doesn't take long that it felt worth

01:05:23   it. And it's like, "Yeah, it actually does." It charges not like three times as fast. It charges

01:05:28   40% faster for whatever the number is. But it's noticeable if you're ready to go in the morning

01:05:34   and you just want to make some coffee and get something quick to eat. And it's like,

01:05:38   you can charge up your Apple Watch noticeably more if it was run down overnight than you would

01:05:45   otherwise. Yeah. I never needed to charge it much. Yesterday, I think about midday, I noticed it

01:05:52   seemed like it was down a little bit too far. And so I stuck it on the charger for 15 minutes or

01:05:56   something. And it was plenty to make it through the rest of the day. I'd love to know what

01:06:01   percentage of AirPod purchasers get the engraving. I have mine by the ones I bought engraved.

01:06:08   And it's one of those... We were laughing before about Apple upselling me on a

01:06:13   polishing cloth. But they don't charge for the engraving, which even like any modest amount,

01:06:21   like for five bucks more, you can get them engraved. I wouldn't hesitate to do it. I mean,

01:06:26   I wouldn't... I didn't hesitate to buy a $19 polishing cloth. So obviously, I'm not good with

01:06:35   not spending my money, so I would do it. But I think a lot of other people would, "Oh, I want to

01:06:39   get some emoji engraved on my case or whatever." And I think a huge reason for it is families with

01:06:47   multiple AirPod owners, let's tell them apart. You don't want to stick your son's gross earpods

01:06:55   or your son definitely doesn't want to stick your... I guess it's that way, right? Your teenage

01:07:00   sons and daughters don't want to stick your gross old man earpods into their ears.

01:07:05   Pete: Did I tell... I don't think I told it on this show. Karen was having trouble... You could

01:07:12   decide if you want to cut this story or not. But Karen was having trouble with a pair of AirPods,

01:07:17   and I was looking online to see what could be the problem. One of them was not, you know,

01:07:21   the sound wasn't coming out very well. And, you know, eventually, like little bits of earwax get

01:07:26   caught in the grill and stuff like that. And so, this guy's solution was you get a toothbrush and

01:07:32   you scrape it a little bit in like a circular motion, try and be gentle so you don't break

01:07:36   the grill and stuff like that, and then you suck on it. I was like, "Well, it's my wife."

01:07:47   So, I did it. And it worked. It worked really, really well. And it was really gross.

01:07:56   You know, I started this whole segment the wrong way because I would do that for my wife as well.

01:08:04   I would. And, you know, it feels like dad business, right? Where the whole world is moving away from

01:08:14   gender-specific roles, and it's all for the better, and it's much better. But this is

01:08:21   man business, right? Like, yeah, I don't think she was gonna do that. Yeah, my wife would not do that

01:08:26   for mine. But I would do it for her. She certainly, she definitely wouldn't do it for mine. I don't

01:08:30   think she'd do it for hers either. And it's one of the light bulb moments of parenthood is that you,

01:08:38   I don't know why, but as a parent, you're not grossed out by your kid stuff.

01:08:44   Oh, yeah. You can't afford to be. You just can't. The time, you know, when they're little,

01:08:50   like the idea that, "Oh, I gotta go get a paper towel." Or like, "No, I'm just gonna,

01:08:55   like, the kid's snotty. I'm just gonna use my sleeve." Or eating food off their plate. Like,

01:09:01   are you serious? You're not gonna eat those last few bites? "I'll eat off your plate. I'll still

01:09:05   eat off my son's plate." Whereas I wouldn't eat off my dad's plate, right? I love my dad. My dad,

01:09:13   I have always loved him. I did not think of that. I would not eat off my dad's plate.

01:09:18   It's not come up. If my dad had a problem with his AirPods, which he doesn't even own, but

01:09:25   if my dad had a problem with his AirPods and I suspected that that trick might work,

01:09:31   I would just go out and buy him a new pair of AirPods and tell him that I used a cleaning

01:09:36   trick I got on the internet. Here they are. Also, by the way, I polished the case up a little for

01:09:41   you. And got it engraved. Yeah. That was the thing, though. I need to, because I also got

01:09:50   hung up on the emoji stuff. Like, I was like, "Oh, there's all these emoji." And I was like, "Oh,

01:09:55   maybe I should." And then I was like, "I'm taking too much time." And then it crashed.

01:09:59   And so then I was like, "I'm not going back into that. I'm just going to buy them."

01:10:01   So I think if you're planning on buying AirPods on day one and you want to get them engraved,

01:10:07   make sure you know what you want on the engraving before you get into that.

01:10:10   Well, yeah. This will come as absolutely no surprise to you or anybody who listens to this

01:10:16   show and who's familiar with my proclivities. When I first got an AirPod case engraved, I noticed

01:10:26   that there's four different trigger points where the font size changes so that it can fit more.

01:10:34   If you only get one, two, or three letters, maybe you just want your initials, like JG or for you,

01:10:42   JM. It's the biggest font size. And then you get to, I forget what the points are, but I,

01:10:49   of course, obsessively figured out each one. It's like you get to four and it shrinks a little. You

01:10:54   get to like 13, it shrinks a little more. And I started playing around. And as an old school

01:11:01   graphic designer, you can run into problems if you do things purely by counting characters,

01:11:10   because the lowercase i is the narrowest character, whereas an uppercase M or W is much wider.

01:11:19   I forget exactly what they do. But then I got to the point where it's like, "Well, you know what I

01:11:23   like? I like really small fonts. I think small fonts look better. I would like my case engraved

01:11:29   with a small font, but I don't have a long string of text to engrave. And I really wish that they

01:11:36   had let me just get my initials, but use the smallest possible font size." And I was like,

01:11:43   "Ah, I got it. Spaces." No, nope. And then I thought, "Damn." And I was like, "Ah, but what

01:11:50   about like option spaces to get like a Unicode thin space? Maybe they're just looking for space

01:11:58   characters." Nope. No, they're doing like a regular expression search for all white space,

01:12:03   and they don't count it if it's on the sides. I also thought then I also, I wasted a lot of time.

01:12:09   Jared: Your eyesight's terrible. I'm surprised you still like small fonts.

01:12:12   Ted, you know, my eyesight has gone back and forth. It's been a wild rollercoaster over five

01:12:18   years, but I'm at the point now where my eyesight is actually much better for small stuff than it

01:12:24   was two or three years ago. I'm back to being able to read pretty small stuff when I take my glasses

01:12:31   off or use like my progressive lenses. So, I'm back to that, but that is a good point. I also,

01:12:39   of course, spent an inordinate amount of time, just way more, I mean like a ridiculous amount

01:12:45   of time, like, and couldn't tell my wife because it would be like, "Hey, don't you have something

01:12:50   better to do?" But trying to sneak swear words past their filters, like, how smart are they,

01:13:01   you know? So, obviously, just matching for a known list of swear words or inappropriate words that

01:13:07   they will refuse to engrave, that's not going to work. But things like putting a Unicode thin space

01:13:14   between the F and the U, you know, would that work? Would that get it passed? And then I enlisted

01:13:23   friend of the show, Daniel Jowkett, in this, and he got it to a point where they let him put it into

01:13:30   the cart with a swear, some kind of inappropriate thing using some kind of trickery like that,

01:13:36   you know, Unicode spaces or something. But then it wouldn't let him check out. So, there's like

01:13:42   a subsequent level of checking beyond the engraving tool where there, and then it would just, and it

01:13:48   would like take them out of your cart and set you back, it was like getting the worst chute in chutes

01:13:54   and ladders, you know, the one that would make your little siblings cry if they landed on it,

01:14:00   because it would send them all the way back to the beginning. And it's like, all of a sudden,

01:14:04   you don't even have AirPods in your cart anymore, and you've got to...

01:14:11   But that's the way my mind thinks.

01:14:12   I get it. Have you ever put like your phone number on them? I mean, it seems like that's probably...

01:14:16   Yeah, well, I never thought of it, but...

01:14:18   I think Karen had a case that she had them in and that she had her phone number, and the person,

01:14:23   you know, somebody found them in a parking lot and called her and she got them back.

01:14:26   Yeah, that's pretty, that's not a bad way to do it. And it's, you know...

01:14:28   Or an email. Yeah, like you could put a, you know, like a burner email account on there.

01:14:33   Yeah. Yeah, because I wouldn't want to put my real email for some reason.

01:14:37   Yeah, I wouldn't either.

01:14:39   I don't know why.

01:14:39   You could just make up an iCloud, you know, it'll have to have a temporary iCloud one.

01:14:44   Yeah, I guess. But then I'd start to wonder, though, if I, you know, make up a temporary

01:14:51   iCloud one, but it's not an easily typable string, or somebody, you know, are they going to be like,

01:14:56   you know, i76543 at iCloud.com. Forget it.

01:15:02   Don't like make them jump through hoops to return your AirPods.

01:15:04   Right.

01:15:06   Yeah, I'm not quite sure. But, you know, I have phone number. I bet that's very common.

01:15:11   Yeah, I'm always just, for some reason, I never wanted, like, I don't know why. I've never,

01:15:14   I've never done it. And I'm always leery of just putting my information on anything,

01:15:19   I guess, is probably what it is.

01:15:20   Yeah, we're two, you and I are two, we're probably overly conservative about stuff like that. Like,

01:15:27   Yeah.

01:15:27   You know, it's, I still laugh. We were just, we were just talking the other day about how

01:15:35   back when we, Amy and I went to college, both of our schools, both the University of Pittsburgh

01:15:39   and Drexel used your social security number as your student ID.

01:15:44   Oh, yeah, your student ID. Yeah. I don't think my, I don't think my school did that. But honestly,

01:15:49   I don't remember so long ago.

01:15:51   It, and that's how you would order that we, you used to be able to get, Drexel had like,

01:15:55   the way that the food plan worked your freshman year is you, you didn't just get meals, like,

01:16:02   oh, you can get like three meals a day at the cafeteria, you got like $72 a week that you could

01:16:08   spend at Drexel's food services. So one of the ways you could spend it is go to lunch in the

01:16:14   cafeteria. And, you know, but you could also from like your dorm call up Drexel's pizza, which was

01:16:20   the worst pizza in all of Philadelphia, just the absolute worst, like, you know, like, how pizza

01:16:27   cheese is supposed to be closer to white or yellow. It was orange. It was orange cheese. It was

01:16:33   terrible. But, but if you had no real money to call a real pizza place, and you still had, you

01:16:42   know, 13, 14 bucks left on your weekly food service allowance, but you would just call up,

01:16:48   tell them your dorm room number, and then to pay, you would just read, read them your social

01:16:52   security number. And then they would be like, okay, you've got $7 remaining. And you'd be like,

01:16:58   okay, thanks. And they'd, you know, they'd know my name. They'd be like, okay, John.

01:17:02   You know, because once they typed it in, it all came up. In fact, now that I think about it,

01:17:07   you may not have even had to tell them your dorm room number. You might've just given them your

01:17:11   student ID and they knew your dorm room number, which is even worse. Like they had a book,

01:17:16   they had a book full of everybody. The school probably printed out a book that did that.

01:17:21   So anyway, I'm loathe to even tell anybody my name.

01:17:25   I wonder how those, you know, they'll get a key and it said drop in any mailbox.

01:17:29   Yes. I wonder how that works. Like you should be able to get one of those, you know, where it's

01:17:35   not even, it doesn't even have any information on there. It's just drop, just some magic.

01:17:39   I don't know. We should get like a mailman on the show. Anyway, let me take a break here and

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01:20:01   for a full list of licenses. I got dinged last time. I didn't read all of that.

01:20:08   You didn't do the numbers? I didn't do the numbers the last time.

01:20:11   Man, that's, yeah. I got a note. Dropping any mailbox.

01:20:15   Are you a Curb Your Enthusiasm fan? No, no. I've seen a little bit, but not that much.

01:20:26   It's a funny, we're big fans. The show has always been on HBO and the new season started last week.

01:20:32   I guess it's going to last all season. I'm not sure. But the gimmick is that Larry David is

01:20:37   selling a new sitcom to Netflix, which is interesting. It's just an interesting little

01:20:42   thing to me. I presume that Netflix, that they okayed it and that the people at HBO are okay with

01:20:52   the fictional version of Larry David selling a show to Netflix and that they got Netflix's

01:20:57   permit. It's just a weird meta thing that Amy didn't want to talk to me at all about.

01:21:02   But he pitches. What's the point of having a lawyer in the house?

01:21:09   He pitches the show to these Netflix officials and they love it. And they're like, "I think we're

01:21:13   going to go ahead. We're going to do it." And he's like, "You're going to enjoy working with me. I'm

01:21:18   easy to work with. Don't worry about what people say." And they're like, "Ah." And everybody's

01:21:21   laughing and a meeting is breaking up and he goes, "But no notes. Don't send me notes." And they laugh

01:21:26   and he goes, "No, I mean that." With my show, and I think in a real world where you do these shows

01:21:36   for big companies like HBO and Netflix and any of the movie studios, everybody who follows movies

01:21:42   closely knows about notes. I don't know where the lingo came from. It seems like an entertainment

01:21:47   industry thing. You watch something, you say, "I have notes." In the computer world, we don't

01:21:57   talk about notes. If you're making a new app, your boss doesn't say, "I have some notes."

01:22:03   Maybe they do, but it's not so much of a term of art. I got a note about not reading the small

01:22:11   print on the earnest, but they're good people. Well, yeah, we get stuff like that. Anytime you're

01:22:18   in one of these, on a podcast and you have advertisers, every once in a while, they'll

01:22:22   listen in and they'll say, "Could you tweak this? Could you do that?" And that's what they're paying

01:22:29   for. Yeah, that's what they're paying for. And the other thing that I truly appreciate is I truly

01:22:34   appreciate and understand the fact that it's a very regulated industry and that it's not for

01:22:41   nothing that they would like me to assert all the specific legal details at the end.

01:22:46   Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don't have a lot to say about it, but have you upgraded to MacOS 12

01:22:53   Monterey? I have. I did that on Monday when it came, or not the minute it came out, but

01:23:00   that afternoon. What are your thoughts? I like it so far. I think the widgets I've actually enjoyed,

01:23:09   because now I have a widget for... And for some reason, this seems more usable to me than

01:23:15   Dashboard did, because I've actually been using it a lot more than I used to use. Well, maybe in the

01:23:23   beginning I used Dashboard a lot, but I've got three things on here that I have on my phone.

01:23:30   And I check it fairly frequently. So, I mean, the control center still seems very weird.

01:23:39   The widgets thing, that's a good note, John. But I agree with it, because taking an app from iOS

01:23:53   to Mac and just letting it run, let's say the home app or some of the first Catalyst apps, like the

01:24:01   news and the stocks apps, it just felt like you were running an iOS app in the simulator. And

01:24:10   if you're either, A, a developer of iPhone apps or iPad apps, or even just kicked around with Xcode

01:24:18   playing with it, you know what I mean? Where it's cool that you can run your iPhone app on your Mac

01:24:25   while you're developing it in a simulator, but it always felt like you were running an iPhone app in

01:24:31   a simulator. It just didn't feel Mac-like. And the quick and easy, like the home app, still to me,

01:24:39   doesn't really look and feel like a Mac app. It feels like an iPad app running on a Mac.

01:24:43   The widgets are narrowly constrained in a way that they feel just at home across the board,

01:24:52   right? And that there's not buttons and controls, and there's not a lot of interactivity.

01:24:56   They're just sort of like little status panels. And somehow they've squared that circle in a very

01:25:04   neat way where they feel very much at home. And I like them. I do too. And I think dashboard is one

01:25:12   of those ideas where they've been taking several stabs at it over the decades now, and I feel like

01:25:18   they finally got it. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, we'll see. I think I used dashboard for a while,

01:25:28   because I used to—there's that iStat menu thing that is now in the menu. You can get it in the menu

01:25:34   bar so you don't—I had that for a long time, and I don't currently use it. And so I remember going

01:25:39   into—but I think that was back to our point about how Macs use memory and whatnot now. I don't feel

01:25:47   like I need it anymore, is the thing. I don't feel resource-constrained anymore. Whereas when I was

01:25:53   using a 400 MHz powerbook, I really did, with a physical disk. Right. My big feature, the one that

01:26:05   is—my main machine is still running macOS 11 Big Sur, and over the years I've gotten a little bit

01:26:13   more conservative about when I upgrade to the latest version of macOS 10 on my main machine.

01:26:18   But it's prompting me to do it. As soon as I have all of my current work done and I feel like,

01:26:23   just in case something goes bad, I can blow a day fixing it, I'm upgrading, is live text.

01:26:32   And I know that's on all platforms, and I've been playing with—I've been using the iOS betas all

01:26:38   summer, and there are times I'd use live text. But for me, the type of situations where I want

01:26:44   to use live text are way more common on a Mac. Right? Like I want to—

01:26:49   Exactly. Yeah.

01:26:50   I've got a picture of a thing I want—or here's this text on a printed thing.

01:26:53   I don't want to retype it. It seems like long work. I don't want to do—oh, I'll just take a

01:26:59   picture, and you take a picture and select it, and it's amazing.

01:27:02   Yeah. It's absolutely amazing.

01:27:05   Yeah, I was telling Paul in the Slack earlier today, I had a recipe that I've had for 20 years

01:27:13   for Vietnamese catfish, and it's excellent. I love it. And it's the only recipe that I have

01:27:18   that is actually something that we ripped out of a magazine a long time ago when we used to get

01:27:23   something. I don't remember what it was. And so I would always go to the recipe box that we still

01:27:29   have and pull it out every time I was going to make Vietnamese catfish. Back in May, I finally

01:27:34   thought, "I'll take a picture of it." And then eventually, because I use Paprika for all my

01:27:40   recipes, I was thinking, "I'll just type it in," because I'm tired of going to find it every single

01:27:46   time. And I took the picture of it in May and never typed it in, but I still had the picture.

01:27:54   It suddenly hit me once I upgraded to Monterey. Like, "Oh, I don't have to type it anymore." And

01:28:00   I opened it up and just copy-pasted, put it in the Paprika, and did a little bit of editing, and

01:28:04   now I have it, and I made it last time.

01:28:07   To be clear, Paprika is a recipe app. You're not just talking about using the spice?

01:28:13   No. No. Actually, there's no Paprika in this recipe.

01:28:16   I was going to say, that would be a hell of a coincidence. But it's a feature that, A,

01:28:21   once you get used to it, you almost can't go back to not having it. So it's like making me look at

01:28:27   every machine I have that's not updated to the latest and greatest and cast a stink eye at it.

01:28:32   But when I first started, it was like when they announced it, I was like, "That sounds awesome."

01:28:38   And I know that there have been... OCR is a long-standing thing, and there's a utility

01:28:45   called TextSniper for the Mac that you'll never believe who turned me on to it.

01:28:51   [laughter]

01:28:52   Paul Kefas...

01:28:53   I bet I will. I bet I will believe.

01:28:55   Paul Kefas is...

01:28:56   No, you don't say.

01:28:57   Paul, I wish... He's just Paul from now on.

01:29:00   You should have had Paul on, I think.

01:29:01   Yeah.

01:29:01   I think that's the...

01:29:03   And it's really... TextSniper is great. I wish I had known about it years ago.

01:29:08   And if you, for whatever reason, either out of personal hesitancy or specific technical

01:29:15   limitations or rules, can't upgrade to Mac OS 12 Monterey yet, you should definitely take a look

01:29:23   at TextSniper in the meantime. But even TextSniper, which works great, very accurate, pretty

01:29:29   convenient to use. It's sort of like taking a screenshot where it's like you say, "I wanna

01:29:34   capture some text," and you go into a mode and you get a cursor that looks like a plus symbol,

01:29:40   and you can drag it around the text you wanna capture and you get it.

01:29:45   It works pretty well. But nothing... It can't compete with something built into the system

01:29:49   where every time that you open an image, there's this little icon that says, "I've already

01:29:52   identified text here. Just click here and you can copy it," like it's live text. It's amazing.

01:29:59   And to me, like I said, it's so much... Something I will use so much more on the Mac than anywhere

01:30:06   else, even though I'm glad it's on iOS and iPad too, but it's my favorite feature of Monterey.

01:30:13   And I would update to Monterey even if that was the only feature. If they were just like,

01:30:19   "You remember everything else we announced at WWDC? Well, that's all postponed,

01:30:23   but we do have live text," I would be like, "Four gigabytes download right now. Here we go."

01:30:29   Pete: Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that I think that the second probably, actually,

01:30:36   this was the first thing that I noticed for sure was simply the return of sensible tabs.

01:30:59   Pete:

01:31:00   I have a basic sense that Mac OS 12 Monterey is not a huge update and it's not that different

01:31:08   than Mac OS 11 Big Sur in a good way, right? Like in a snow leopard, no major new features way and

01:31:16   people... Some of those are the best remembered Mac OS versions over the years because they focused

01:31:24   engineering resources on stability and fixing bugs and not adding a lot of... But there's more

01:31:31   new stuff than I remembered off the top of my head. But like the Safari list is now funny

01:31:37   because it's like the last bullet item is optional compact tab mode, saves space. And it's like...

01:31:46   I laugh and I'm not trying to make fun. I'm glad that it worked out the way it did,

01:31:52   that they changed their mind collectively and reverted to tabs that look... Not just when you're

01:32:00   not in compact mode, but that that's actually the default tabs too, so that like my parents won't

01:32:06   call me up and be like, "I don't understand." I don't want to...

01:32:10   Jared:

01:32:11   I didn't... Yeah, my parents did. That didn't occur to me, but I thought if Karen updated,

01:32:15   I would be... Yeah, I would be hearing about it.

01:32:18   Pete; So I'm glad they reverted that. I think it was a change that,

01:32:21   again, worth trying, but never should have made it out of the prototype stage and probably should

01:32:28   have been nixed early and somehow didn't. But it does make for a funny Safari section in the

01:32:35   Monterey. Tabs still don't suck, right?

01:32:42   Jared; Sucky tab option added.

01:32:48   Pete; But I mean that in a very complementary way. I feel like Big Sur was a 11, Mac OS 11 Big Sur

01:32:57   was a total corner-to-corner refresh of the UI. Not radical, but they redrew everything. The menu

01:33:06   bar looks different and they added the control center, which like you said, it still is a little

01:33:14   weird on the Mac, but...

01:33:15   Jared; Yeah, it seems a little out of place. Like it doesn't seem,

01:33:19   it seems very, it seems sort of iOS-y.

01:33:21   Pete; But lots of stuff, you know, they made a couple of things more iOS-y for whatever

01:33:26   reasons. But Monterey isn't like that, but in a good way, right? Like it's just sort of polished up

01:33:32   stuff and I like it. And I've had very good, you know, a couple of Macs I've had it on,

01:33:37   including the review unit upstairs, which, you know, the new MacBook Pro, which of course has

01:33:44   to have Monterey because new hardware always runs the latest operating system. Kudos to Apple for

01:33:50   shipping that. I guess the one buggy thing is shortcuts. Do you use the shortcuts?

01:33:54   Jared; I don't. That's the thing. I don't use shortcuts, but yeah, that is,

01:33:58   that's definitely what I've heard.

01:33:59   Pete; Yeah. And I, you know, I don't want to go into it in detail. It is a weird,

01:34:03   I think it's a weird saga though, where the long, I think the, the very, the layperson's explanation

01:34:11   is that there's three ways to make a Mac app, but a native one. The AppKit, which is the long-standing

01:34:18   framework that goes all the way back to NeXT, which is what most Mac apps are written with,

01:34:25   you can use Catalyst, which is sort of debuted alongside Swift UI, what, three years ago,

01:34:31   and is a way to use UIKit, which is the, the equivalent of AppKit from iOS,

01:34:38   but you could use that now on the Mac too. And it's a way, you know, the, the idea is that

01:34:44   you could share a code base across platforms to save time. And also for developers, there's just

01:34:52   way more iPhone and iPad developers than there are Mac developers. Well, you know, maybe this will

01:34:57   get more Mac apps and Swift UI and Swift UI is actually, it is also used to make all the widgets

01:35:06   and it's Swift UI is great for widgets. Swift UI does not seem great yet for apps. And, but the

01:35:15   way, you know, there's that term dog fooding, right? Like the way that a company needs to dog,

01:35:20   they need to eat their own dog food, meaning use their own tools, use their own stuff.

01:35:24   And, you know, you have to, somebody has to be the first major app inside Apple to use Swift UI

01:35:33   as the framework to make the whole app. And it turns out it was shortcuts and it, you know,

01:35:41   it was a Rocky landing is a way to put it. You know, Federico Faticchi is the biggest shortcuts

01:35:52   fanad fan power user I could imagine. He not only, he writes about them, he shares them to

01:36:00   Mac stories users, and some of them do amazing things. It's, and, you know, and he, he'll say,

01:36:06   he's not a programmer and it's like, no, you're a programmer. Shortcuts hasn't turned you into

01:36:11   a programmer. This is like a mental model for programming that, that works for you.

01:36:15   And you're building these amazing things. And I'm, I read his stuff and it's not just on Mac,

01:36:21   it's, you know, everywhere. It's like, it's shortcuts. It's like sometimes you enter,

01:36:25   you know, you, it's like you have a 30 step shortcut and every three steps, the apps just

01:36:31   stops letting you enter text and you have to close it, go back, reopen it. It's, it's Rocky.

01:36:38   And it's, it's really kind of weird. It's, I'm glad it's there on Mac OS 12 Monterey. And it's,

01:36:44   I can't wait to see once this stabilizes, you know, as a long time automation nerd and

01:36:50   Apple script user, and I use keyboard maestro, but none of those things go cross-platform,

01:36:56   right? Apple script and keyboard maestro are only on the Mac and shortcuts was only on the iPhone.

01:37:02   And shortcuts seems to be a path forward where, where this automator was Mac only.

01:37:08   But where shortcuts, you know, is today is, is not, not, not good. Yeah. Anything else?

01:37:18   A quick note, I haven't used it yet, but I liked the idea and I expect that I will.

01:37:26   Well, my thanks to you for being on the show. You, you've, what else do, what do you want

01:37:33   to promote? We already mentioned the rebound, which is podcast with a membership system.

01:37:38   That's right. You can be a rebound prime member, rebound prime member. Love it. We'd love it. If

01:37:44   you would, if you would consider that. And I do a podcast called Biff with Dan and friend of the

01:37:49   show Guy English. You should have Paul on that show. I don't think Paul watches Super, does Paul

01:37:59   watch superhero shows? It doesn't seem like his bag. It doesn't seem like Paul would watch superhero

01:38:03   shows. But it would have made, it would have made for a funny gag on this show. So yeah, and

01:38:10   sometimes I hang out with Paul. I will thank our sponsors. We had Earnest, where you can refinance

01:38:18   your student loans, LinkedIn jobs, where you can go place a free job listing and have great

01:38:25   experience hiring to fill your, your openings. And of course, Memberful, where you can start

01:38:33   your own membership system, monetize your interest and where the rebound can monetize their members.

01:38:40   Monetize my appearance on this podcast.

01:38:43   Monetize your appearance on this podcast. Thank you.

01:38:46   No, thank you.

01:38:49   Always good talking to you, John.