303: ‘Half of the Bikini Emoji’, With Matthew Panzarino
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- Are you tired of looking at new Apple products?
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- I mean, I hesitate to say that.
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It sounds uncharitable.
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It has been quite an intense schedule.
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I think it's obviously partially because they try
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to dump everything at once normally,
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and now it's strung out over weeks.
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But yeah, it's a lot.
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It's been a lot.
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I can't phone any of it in.
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I'm physically impossible at phoning stuff in,
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so it's just exhausting, that's all.
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- I have the same thought, and there's a part of me
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that gets a little petulant, and it's like,
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so we got, I was very excited to get the AirPods Max,
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'cause they look really neat, and they're very expensive,
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and it sure is fun to be able to try them
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without ordering a pair.
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And now at this point, in addition to spending 550 bucks,
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you have to wait weeks and weeks to get 'em.
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But then when they're like,
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and review embargoes drop Thursday morning,
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and it's like, 24 hours, F you,
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I'm just gonna phone this in and write three sentences.
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Sound good, too heavy.
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There, done, publish.
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But I can't, I have to start, you know.
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- Yeah, of course.
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And it wasn't even the review embargo, right?
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It's just like, hey, this is the next morning,
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first look stuff, right?
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So I refused personally to sort of review them officially,
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because I'm like, there's no way.
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And I felt it wouldn't do anybody a service to pretend
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that I had some sort of fully formed opinion
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on these things, but at the same time,
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I can't just go like, oh hey, look, here's the pictures.
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I don't know, I'm just incapable of it.
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- Well, and I also feel like, and I get it,
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in some sense, I feel a little less pressure,
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because it looks like at this point,
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nobody's getting them for Christmas,
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if you haven't already ordered.
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- Right, right, if you're not an early adopter,
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who's gonna order 'em anyway,
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you're not gonna get 'em yet.
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Maybe you could still get the silver ones, I don't know.
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- I don't know.
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And there was that fun thing that you pointed out
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that you could get engraved ones in December,
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but you couldn't get non-engraved ones until January.
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- Right, and it didn't last long,
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but it lasted about an hour.
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And it's like, what if you really want a pair
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that's not engraved, you don't want any marks on them at all,
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but you really want 'em by Christmas,
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what is the least intrusive engraving
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that they would let you put?
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So they won't let you just put a space.
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Their little engraving dingus
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will interpret that as no engraving at all.
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So if you go to say, I would like to get my AirPods
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engraved, and this entire string you enter
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is just a space or a series of spaces,
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and then you hit OK, it goes back to the next screen
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and it has no engraving selected, which makes sense.
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- Oh, uh-huh, yeah.
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What, did you try, this is random,
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but did you try using a zero-width space?
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- No, I didn't try any fancy Unicode.
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- That would be clever.
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I did try a dash, which would just look like a little,
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you know, I also thought, I forget,
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I think that the engraving goes on the left cup
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because the right cup is the one with the controls.
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So I thought, you know, what if you just put an L, right?
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'Cause that, even if you don't want them engraved,
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you don't wanna put your name on them,
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you don't wanna put something clever on 'em,
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you don't want an emoji, just put an L.
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- I like that it's minimal because it's very Appleistic,
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it's like, hey, we only need one
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because obviously the other one is R.
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- Right, but it is, it's, how bizarre is it
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that for a while at least you were able to,
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and it's just, you know, I'm sure it would actually
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be fascinating and it's the sort of thing
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they're never gonna talk about,
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but it would be fascinating to get Jeff Williams
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to explain it, you know, like,
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and I'm sure that it's a fascinating explanation
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of the different supply chain paths
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that engraved versus non-engraved ones take.
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You know, in theory, engraving should take longer,
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but, you know.
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- Well, it's, in my mind, if you just go the dummy route
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on the supply chain analysis here,
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it would probably be that there's a certain amount
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set aside for engraving because they go
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to a facility for engraving.
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And it's like if you're gonna get 'em engraved,
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they come from this pool, which is usually less purchased,
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people probably buy far more without engraving,
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and then, you know, those are still in stock.
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So that's probably, it just, you know,
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the simplistic way of looking at it.
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- Do you-- - By the way, I just tried,
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I just tried to zero with space, does not work, so.
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Sorry for anybody looking to do that.
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- Do you get your stuff engraved when it's offered?
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- Very, very rarely.
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Literally the only thing I can, I currently own,
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I have in the past, and like for my wife maybe,
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gotten her a phone engraved, you know.
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I think maybe even her current phone is.
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But the only thing I currently own is an AirPods Pro case
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with an emoji on it, and the only reason I did that
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is 'cause I know which one is my current one
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and which one is mine and not an Apple review unit
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as they come and go, and that way I know,
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you know, that one's mine.
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Because there's, I have a lot of AirPods around here,
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either that I've purchased or when Apple, you know,
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drops new ones and I review a unit, it's sitting here,
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and then I don't know which one's which.
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- All right, I would like to get my stuff engraved,
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but I can never decide what to get engraved on it.
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And then I realize--
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- A paralysis of choice.
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- Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it really,
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I will sit there in front of the engraving form
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for a very long period of time,
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and then I'll think, well, this isn't getting me anywhere.
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And then a sensible person would think,
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this isn't getting me anywhere,
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I'll just order no engraved and be done with it.
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But what I'll do is I'll say, I'll think to myself,
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I need to get up and walk around.
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Maybe I'll take a walk, you know, put my coat on,
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I'm gonna go pick up some bread or something like that,
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just to clear my head so I can think about this.
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And then I realize, you know, it's like,
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I'm doing all this, you know,
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and taking a walk to clear your head, you know,
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get some ideas, that's all well and good and it works,
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but it's like, I'm not doing it for like,
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something clever to write about,
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I'm doing it to figure out what should I get engraved.
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- No, try to slice an editorial Gordian knot.
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You're trying to figure out whether to do the rock emoji
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or the okay emoji.
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- Well, for me it'd be so super boring.
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Should I just get like, JG or should I just get Gruber?
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Or should I go with that?
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They do give you a star emoji.
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Hmm. - Right, right.
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- Maybe just Gruber.
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- Yeah, why are we the way that we are?
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I don't understand this.
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- Right, and then I would just wish, it makes me wish,
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I was like, I gotta wish they would just charge $25
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to engrave it, 'cause then I would say, ah, forget it.
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- Exactly, exactly.
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Free is the worst, you know?
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Charge me a dollar, because then I have an excuse
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to be like, ah, I'll just put the extra dollar.
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- I'm not for like, AirPods Pro, right?
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I ordered AirPods Pro last year and I got 'em,
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and it's like, I'm not worried about like,
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oh, if I get my name engraved on the case,
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then the resale value is no, I'm not gonna,
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who's gonna buy a used pair of AirPods Pro?
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- Well, people do, but yeah,
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I would never sell 'em personally.
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- I'm not, so it has nothing to do with that,
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it's just pure indecision.
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Ah, terrible.
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And again, and then there's something to me
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with the AirPods Max, where it's like,
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there's a little bit of an asymmetry there.
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Now, they're permanently asymmetrical,
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'cause the controls are only on the right,
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and the engravings on the left.
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Anyway, paralysis, I don't know.
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I don't know what I would do.
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But anyway, you can't get 'em by Christmas,
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so it's no worries.
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You and I had very similar thoughts.
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I always, I say this all the time,
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it's always a relief, it's like,
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I don't wanna go on and on about how heavy these things are,
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and then I read all the other reviews
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and nobody says anything, and it's like,
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maybe this is completely normal, and--
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- Or maybe, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Maybe I just have a weak neck.
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- Yeah. (laughs)
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- Let's go down with eight. - Right.
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I think President Trump has actually
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called people pencil decks.
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Remember, that was--
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- Right, right, yeah.
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- That was big in the '80s,
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to call somebody a pencil neck geek.
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Yeah, there, is there something wrong with my neck?
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- Yeah, I'm on the frat crowd, yeah.
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- I don't know, it's, but these are heavy headphones,
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in my opinion.
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- They're about 100 grams.
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I put 'em on my kitchen scale.
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I have a fairly accurate one I use for baking and whatnot,
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and I put 'em on there, and they're like 385
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or 89 grams or something,
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which is about 100 grams heavier
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than a pair of Beats Studio,
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which, obviously, sure, there are heavier headphones
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in between somewhere,
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but I do believe that's on the higher end of the scale.
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- Yeah, and my, I have the Bose QuietComfort 35 IIs,
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and I guess Bose has another one, a 700,
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which I haven't looked at recently.
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I mean, I just don't, I'm not enough of a traveler
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and not enough of a,
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I'm not a Marco Arman who's gonna collect headphones,
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but the Bose are 200 and some,
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so it's a little bit over 100 grams,
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and you feel it, right?
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It's also, it's not just 100 grams.
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It's the fact that it's 100 extra or 50 extra
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each on each ear cup, right?
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'Cause the weight is clearly all on the ear cups.
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- But again, I'm not saying it's a problem,
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and I thought you put it pretty well.
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It's like, I thought your review where you were just like,
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look, if you don't like heavy headphones,
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don't buy these, that's it.
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But it's not like it's a problem,
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but I also think you nailed it where it's,
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and I think I sort of fall into that category
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as somebody who doesn't follow the headphone industry.
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You know, I get a pair I like, and that's it.
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I was a little surprised at how heavy they were,
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and maybe I shouldn't have been based on the fact
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that they are really high end in terms of the drivers
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and the quality they're trying to produce.
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- But it's, yeah, it's, I mean, I even put it in my headline
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'cause I wanted to be clever, but it, again,
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I'm not saying this is a reason not to buy it,
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not saying it's a product failure, but hmm,
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this is something to think about.
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- Yeah, I think, so it's sort of that same feeling
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that you get when you buy, I don't know,
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a really high quality pen, right?
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Like a really high quality pen, very, very nice.
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We're talking almost as, almost decorative, right?
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Like it's usable, and in fact,
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maybe one of the best pens made for writing
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simply because they spent so much money making it
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and the craftsmanship is high and all of that stuff.
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But then you use it and you're like,
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do I really want to scribble with this thing all day?
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'Cause it's pretty heavy, right?
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It's kind of like that, where you know that the heaviness
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is a sign of overall craftsmanship and quality,
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which heaviness sometimes is.
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Sometimes it's not, right?
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Like I remember this is a little tiny anecdote,
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but like back when I used to sell cameras,
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one of the big things we'd do was people would come in
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with these sort of knockoffs of Canon SLRs
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that they would get sold by a mail order usually.
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Like it'd be like, hey, mail order this SLR, right?
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And they would get it, and it's a plastic body
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that has the shape of an SLR,
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but in fact, there's no real prism.
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It's just a viewfinder, you know, rangefinder on top.
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And then in its complete plastic body,
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it technically does work,
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but it's essentially a fixed lens pinhole camera, right?
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Like it technically does,
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you could put film in it in the whole bit,
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but they think they got something special for a deal.
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But then if you crack those things open,
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what it is is it's an empty plastic shell
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that's one step above a disposable camera,
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only because it can be reused, right?
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And then in the bottom, they put a slab of lead
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to make it feel like pig metal or whatever.
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They put a slab in the bottom of it to make it feel hefty.
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So when they pick it up, they're like, oh, this is great.
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This feels just like a Canon, you know?
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But it's like really, it's like Canoon or whatever, right,
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on the label.
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And it happened all the time.
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It was crazy.
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It was this thing I had no idea about
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until I started working in that business.
00:12:52
◼
►
And I think there's some products out there that are that way.
00:12:55
◼
►
You could see them.
00:12:56
◼
►
They pop up now and then, and you could tell,
00:12:58
◼
►
hey, there's absolutely no way,
00:13:00
◼
►
no reason for this to weigh the way it does,
00:13:04
◼
►
because they're trying to impart some sense of quality
00:13:07
◼
►
in this, but in reality, you open it up,
00:13:10
◼
►
and it's like, oh, it's just a weight in here
00:13:11
◼
►
to make it seem like it's good, right?
00:13:13
◼
►
And there's physical, actual, still products that do that,
00:13:18
◼
►
but then there's also products that do it metaphorically,
00:13:21
◼
►
where you're like, oh, wow, this has the feel of quality,
00:13:23
◼
►
but it's not really quality.
00:13:24
◼
►
And I don't feel that these fall into that category at all.
00:13:28
◼
►
I actually do feel that they are the weight that they are,
00:13:30
◼
►
specifically because of the materials that were chosen,
00:13:33
◼
►
and the materials were chosen specifically
00:13:36
◼
►
to impart a feeling of quality.
00:13:39
◼
►
So it's not that they were,
00:13:41
◼
►
they've got a slab of pig metal in each ear cup.
00:13:44
◼
►
They're just heavy because they were like,
00:13:46
◼
►
hey, what's the best material we could possibly use?
00:13:49
◼
►
And the weight consideration is way down the list,
00:13:53
◼
►
way down the list on these particular pair.
00:13:55
◼
►
- Yeah, making the cups out of unibody aluminum,
00:13:59
◼
►
I don't know if unibody counts,
00:14:01
◼
►
but it's the outer shell other than the foam thing
00:14:06
◼
►
is just one big, round piece of aluminum.
00:14:10
◼
►
Again, I don't know-- - Yeah, it's a hunk of metal.
00:14:13
◼
►
- It's a hunk of aluminum.
00:14:15
◼
►
And here on the East Coast,
00:14:17
◼
►
in a pretty chilly week in Philadelphia,
00:14:21
◼
►
it is kind of cool, literally cool,
00:14:25
◼
►
and figuratively cool,
00:14:28
◼
►
that when I'd reach up to touch them,
00:14:30
◼
►
they were very cool to the touch,
00:14:31
◼
►
which is not something I'm used to with headphones.
00:14:33
◼
►
And I'm sure there's a whole bunch of high-end,
00:14:36
◼
►
German brands of headphones that are made of metal
00:14:40
◼
►
that I don't own.
00:14:42
◼
►
But for these, just sort of wear 'em
00:14:45
◼
►
while walking around the house,
00:14:46
◼
►
it was really weird to reach up
00:14:48
◼
►
and feel this ice-cool aluminum.
00:14:52
◼
►
And again, they don't make your head cool
00:14:53
◼
►
because your cup, you're,
00:14:55
◼
►
I'm not trying to say like,
00:14:56
◼
►
hey, your head's gonna be cold
00:14:57
◼
►
because there's aluminum cups.
00:14:59
◼
►
The aluminum doesn't touch your head,
00:15:01
◼
►
but it really feels premium.
00:15:04
◼
►
And it's like very futuristic too, right?
00:15:08
◼
►
Like where it's so smooth
00:15:11
◼
►
and like aluminum eggs on your ears.
00:15:15
◼
►
They're very organically shaped.
00:15:19
◼
►
Yeah, yeah, they are.
00:15:21
◼
►
And I do think that they have a,
00:15:23
◼
►
they have a interesting shape
00:15:29
◼
►
on the horizontal axis, I guess you'd call it,
00:15:33
◼
►
like outwards from the head,
00:15:35
◼
►
because many, many headphones out there,
00:15:38
◼
►
premium headphones, I should say,
00:15:40
◼
►
have a fairly large or deep cavity.
00:15:44
◼
►
And that is a sort of a physics thing, partially.
00:15:48
◼
►
They need space for the air to move around
00:15:51
◼
►
and for a bigger driver and all of that, right?
00:15:53
◼
►
But it is, somebody brought this up,
00:15:55
◼
►
and this is obviously not everybody's use case
00:15:57
◼
►
and maybe a fairly minimal use case,
00:16:01
◼
►
but it does typify how these are different
00:16:03
◼
►
from other headphones in the shape,
00:16:05
◼
►
which is that because they're so flat on the outer side
00:16:09
◼
►
and so close to the head,
00:16:11
◼
►
they're actually extremely comfortable to lay down on.
00:16:14
◼
►
Like somebody asked me in a Twitter,
00:16:15
◼
►
hey, I wear noise canceling headphones to sleep,
00:16:18
◼
►
like I put 'em on and I put white noise on or whatever.
00:16:22
◼
►
And I'm like, okay, you know, I get it, right?
00:16:24
◼
►
Maybe you live in a noisy place,
00:16:26
◼
►
or you're next to the L,
00:16:27
◼
►
and you're like, this is the only way I can get to sleep,
00:16:29
◼
►
or you have anxiety or whatever, and it helps.
00:16:32
◼
►
But he's like, I lay down on 'em,
00:16:33
◼
►
'cause how are they to lay down on?
00:16:35
◼
►
And I know this is an edge case,
00:16:37
◼
►
but it's funny to me that it actually typifies
00:16:39
◼
►
how different they are, because they are extremely flat
00:16:42
◼
►
and lozenge-shaped, and that lower profile
00:16:44
◼
►
does actually make them easier to lay down on.
00:16:47
◼
►
And while I don't think I'll be sleeping with them on
00:16:50
◼
►
in a bed, I thought to myself,
00:16:53
◼
►
how many times have I been uncomfortable on a plane
00:16:56
◼
►
because I've been trying to lean up against the bulkhead
00:17:01
◼
►
or against a seat rest or turn,
00:17:04
◼
►
and rest against a seat rest as best I can
00:17:06
◼
►
in an economy seat or whatever.
00:17:09
◼
►
And it clanks against the thing,
00:17:10
◼
►
and it makes my neck crick, and I can't really,
00:17:13
◼
►
but I need 'em on, because I can't sleep with the roar
00:17:16
◼
►
and everybody farting around me and all this.
00:17:18
◼
►
And so I'm like, it makes some sense
00:17:21
◼
►
that the shape, the way they are,
00:17:24
◼
►
it actually is a sort of departure,
00:17:28
◼
►
a left turn from the shape of a lot of premium headphones,
00:17:32
◼
►
which typically look like Lobot a lot.
00:17:34
◼
►
You know? - Yeah, right, right, right.
00:17:37
◼
►
- I brought up the Lobot picture a couple of times,
00:17:41
◼
►
and I'm like, yeah, see, those look cool.
00:17:44
◼
►
Lobot looks really cool, but it's like,
00:17:46
◼
►
yeah, he's got all these blinking lights,
00:17:48
◼
►
and there's a lot of articulation,
00:17:50
◼
►
and there's a lot of levels, just layers of stuff,
00:17:54
◼
►
and these are just smooth, you know?
00:17:59
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:18:02
◼
►
The smoothness, the egg shape, the kind of flatness of them,
00:18:06
◼
►
I think a lot of it, all of it adds up
00:18:08
◼
►
to a nice differentiation in design.
00:18:10
◼
►
I think it's not as evident until you really bring up a list
00:18:15
◼
►
and you kind of, I open a few tabs of all of the,
00:18:19
◼
►
I really, this is probably another part of this discussion,
00:18:23
◼
►
but I'm really not interested in comparing these
00:18:25
◼
►
against non-noise cancellation headphones,
00:18:27
◼
►
'cause I think that's just a, you know,
00:18:29
◼
►
if you're getting into non-NC studio monitor headphones,
00:18:33
◼
►
it's just a different conversation,
00:18:35
◼
►
and I don't feel that it's fair or necessary
00:18:37
◼
►
to have that conversation personally.
00:18:39
◼
►
I'm sure people will have that conversation,
00:18:41
◼
►
oh, let me compare them against my $6,000 reference headphones
00:18:44
◼
►
with no NC, you know, direct path of the audio
00:18:47
◼
►
straight through with no processing.
00:18:49
◼
►
It's just not that, right?
00:18:50
◼
►
But if you open up all of the NC headphones
00:18:53
◼
►
that are in this price range, or even more expensive,
00:18:56
◼
►
some of them are, or a little bit less,
00:18:58
◼
►
but certainly not cheap, it's a departure,
00:19:02
◼
►
a great departure in ID from all of those headphones,
00:19:06
◼
►
which are largely black and brown, some silver,
00:19:10
◼
►
with a lot of bulk and a lot of, you know, very,
00:19:15
◼
►
for lack of a better term, 90s Sony design aesthetic,
00:19:22
◼
►
you know what I mean?
00:19:23
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:19:24
◼
►
- Headphones are really stuck in that universe a lot,
00:19:26
◼
►
and I think Beats did a lot to change that conversation
00:19:29
◼
►
in that they're like, hey, headphones are a fashion accessory
00:19:32
◼
►
and certainly there are other brands.
00:19:33
◼
►
I'm not saying that only Apple affiliated brands
00:19:35
◼
►
have done this.
00:19:36
◼
►
Skullcandy, it springs to mind, they're cheap headphones,
00:19:39
◼
►
but they changed the conversation around how they look.
00:19:41
◼
►
But of course, of course, of course,
00:19:43
◼
►
you cannot talk about any of this without saying
00:19:46
◼
►
that the Apple earbuds really changed the game
00:19:48
◼
►
as far as headphones becoming a thing
00:19:52
◼
►
that people looked at and cared about versus just used,
00:19:55
◼
►
right, and they certainly, you know,
00:19:58
◼
►
if you had those white earbuds with the dangly thread,
00:20:01
◼
►
people knew what you were up to
00:20:03
◼
►
and they knew that you had an iPod
00:20:05
◼
►
and that was the status symbol, for sure.
00:20:07
◼
►
And I think these are in that same conversation, you know?
00:20:13
◼
►
I agree, I mean, and again,
00:20:16
◼
►
and I have not done anything even vaguely
00:20:19
◼
►
like a deep dive on noise canceling headphones.
00:20:24
◼
►
And I know people love the Sony, is it MX series, QX?
00:20:28
◼
►
I don't know what the hell they are.
00:20:30
◼
►
But there's a Sony one that's in that 200-some price range
00:20:33
◼
►
that people really love,
00:20:35
◼
►
where they say the noise canceling is great
00:20:37
◼
►
and the audio quality is superior than the Bose,
00:20:42
◼
►
I got the Bose, my family makes fun of me
00:20:47
◼
►
'cause I actually bought them at the airport.
00:20:52
◼
►
- You're the guy.
00:20:53
◼
►
You're the guy.
00:20:53
◼
►
You're the reason that they sell them at the airport.
00:20:58
◼
►
I forget where we were going like two or three years ago
00:21:01
◼
►
and I got through security.
00:21:02
◼
►
I forget what the story was,
00:21:08
◼
►
but I had broken a pair, the headband of a pair
00:21:13
◼
►
like a year or two earlier
00:21:14
◼
►
and I'd been putting off getting a new pair
00:21:16
◼
►
and I was like, "To hell with this.
00:21:17
◼
►
"I'm not going on this flight
00:21:18
◼
►
"without noise canceling headphones."
00:21:20
◼
►
And I knew there was just your typical airport place
00:21:26
◼
►
where you buy Bose headphones.
00:21:29
◼
►
I did quick Google, like, "Well, what are they?
00:21:32
◼
►
"What do they cost at Amazon?"
00:21:34
◼
►
And it was like the same price.
00:21:35
◼
►
It was like $270.
00:21:38
◼
►
And I'm like, "So who cares?"
00:21:40
◼
►
I'm buying them there.
00:21:41
◼
►
- It wasn't like the $70 sushi, right?
00:21:42
◼
►
It was basically the same price, yeah.
00:21:45
◼
►
It was a perfectly fair price to pay
00:21:48
◼
►
for a pair of Bose Quay Comfort II
00:21:50
◼
►
and my wife and son still do not let me hear the end of it.
00:21:55
◼
►
But once you have them, it just drives me crazy.
00:21:59
◼
►
And I wrote my review.
00:22:00
◼
►
I often use it if I'm writing something
00:22:03
◼
►
or just reading, just reading a book,
00:22:05
◼
►
I will put my noise canceling headphones on,
00:22:08
◼
►
have them play nothing just to have the noise canceling
00:22:11
◼
►
because it is an overall better experience
00:22:15
◼
►
to have headphones on playing nothing
00:22:18
◼
►
but canceling out the, to me, rather unpleasant white noise
00:22:22
◼
►
of an airplane cabin than to sit there and listen to it.
00:22:26
◼
►
So what do you get?
00:22:27
◼
►
You get better audio when you're playing nothing
00:22:31
◼
►
but just have more like closer to pure silence
00:22:35
◼
►
but the physical discomfort of wearing the headphones.
00:22:39
◼
►
I will take that trade off any day of the week.
00:22:43
◼
►
And then if you actually are watching a movie
00:22:47
◼
►
or listening to music or listening to a podcast,
00:22:50
◼
►
it's almost unusable to me not to have noise canceling
00:22:55
◼
►
'cause you have to turn the volume up so high,
00:22:57
◼
►
it's like you should be getting a warning
00:23:00
◼
►
that you're listening to it too loud
00:23:02
◼
►
to hear it over the cabin noise.
00:23:05
◼
►
So I'm a fan but I'm not an expert
00:23:08
◼
►
on the 20 different brands of them.
00:23:12
◼
►
Doing it in the winter was pretty interesting.
00:23:16
◼
►
My office here at the house has pretty loud heat
00:23:21
◼
►
when the heat's on.
00:23:22
◼
►
And especially, it's a little bit of serendipity
00:23:28
◼
►
and a little bit of maybe just, well, it makes sense
00:23:32
◼
►
that the vent was placed over there
00:23:34
◼
►
and the windows were over here.
00:23:37
◼
►
But I just sat down closer to where it's noisier.
00:23:41
◼
►
What else did I test it with?
00:23:45
◼
►
The oven, so like when Amy was baking something
00:23:48
◼
►
and turned on the, what do you call the thing
00:23:53
◼
►
that takes the exhaust out of an oven?
00:23:55
◼
►
The-- - The hood.
00:23:57
◼
►
- The hood, yeah.
00:23:58
◼
►
- Oh, oh, no, the vent, yeah.
00:23:59
◼
►
- The vent, you turn this on and it sucks up the stuff.
00:24:04
◼
►
But it's good white noise.
00:24:06
◼
►
And it's like, boy, they work,
00:24:07
◼
►
and that's the best I could do, you know what I mean?
00:24:10
◼
►
I'm not going on an airplane ride
00:24:12
◼
►
in the 24 hours I've had 'em.
00:24:14
◼
►
- Right, right.
00:24:14
◼
►
- Noise canceling seems great.
00:24:17
◼
►
- Yeah, it's good, it's good.
00:24:20
◼
►
I mean, I do believe that there's a couple of things,
00:24:25
◼
►
you know, a couple of natural advantages
00:24:26
◼
►
that it has over something like an in-ear.
00:24:28
◼
►
I mean, an in-ear, you're fighting with an in-ear,
00:24:33
◼
►
you know, I'm talking like versus an over-ear headphone,
00:24:36
◼
►
you're fighting the fact that the in-ear has a natural seal.
00:24:41
◼
►
So it already blocks more noise than an over-ear, typically,
00:24:46
◼
►
because of the foam and the gap between the foam and the ear
00:24:51
◼
►
and kind of naturally, you're gonna hear more sound.
00:24:54
◼
►
So the in-ear already has a better natural seal.
00:24:57
◼
►
But I would guess that just comparing it, say,
00:25:00
◼
►
'cause I have QuietComfort 2s,
00:25:01
◼
►
which is, they've traveled all over the world with me,
00:25:04
◼
►
and do very well in an airplane setting.
00:25:08
◼
►
They have less hiss and low-frequency noise
00:25:11
◼
►
than a Beats Studio.
00:25:12
◼
►
I have not tried the Sony MX series,
00:25:15
◼
►
which everybody, you know,
00:25:16
◼
►
a lot of people swear by over the Bose.
00:25:18
◼
►
So I can't speak to personal experience there.
00:25:20
◼
►
But they definitely, the QC2s are way better
00:25:24
◼
►
than the Beats Studio for me,
00:25:26
◼
►
for noise cancellation purposes.
00:25:28
◼
►
And sound is more neutral, you know, too,
00:25:30
◼
►
which I actually prefer.
00:25:32
◼
►
But the AirPods Pro, obviously,
00:25:36
◼
►
their noise cancellation, quite good for an earbud.
00:25:39
◼
►
I mean, pretty stellar for an earbud.
00:25:41
◼
►
But I would consider them a little less than the QC2
00:25:44
◼
►
in terms of efficacy.
00:25:46
◼
►
And I consider the AirPods Max to be above both of those.
00:25:51
◼
►
Right, so I think that's the scale for me,
00:25:54
◼
►
is that the QC2s are good,
00:25:55
◼
►
but the AirPods Max do provide superior noise cancellation
00:25:59
◼
►
in terms of blocking, you know,
00:26:01
◼
►
low frequency and sharp sounds.
00:26:03
◼
►
Sharp sounds, especially, are very hard
00:26:05
◼
►
for noise cancellation because they're bursts of sound
00:26:08
◼
►
that kind of pierce the NC white noise frequency.
00:26:12
◼
►
But the Max does a better job at sharp sound stuff,
00:26:17
◼
►
like clinking glasses, snapping fingers, stuff like that.
00:26:21
◼
►
I found it does a little better job.
00:26:23
◼
►
So I've been pretty happy with the noise cancellation.
00:26:26
◼
►
Efficiency, whatever efficacy that you, you know, of these.
00:26:31
◼
►
I think they're good.
00:26:31
◼
►
I think they dull a lot of rustling
00:26:34
◼
►
and a lot of, you know, kind of mid frequency sound very,
00:26:38
◼
►
very well, which is a lot of the stuff that distracts,
00:26:40
◼
►
you know, typically.
00:26:42
◼
►
Just the low hum of life around you,
00:26:44
◼
►
it kind of cuts that out pretty well.
00:26:47
◼
►
- The other thing, I tested the first day I had them,
00:26:49
◼
►
I wore them a lot, and I actually had to run out
00:26:52
◼
►
to get some groceries.
00:26:54
◼
►
And so rather than wear my usual AirPods Pro
00:26:59
◼
►
to listen to podcasts while I do this,
00:27:01
◼
►
I wore the AirPods Max, which I ordinarily wouldn't do,
00:27:05
◼
►
but I realized that they do kind of work.
00:27:08
◼
►
It wasn't freezing cold, I don't know,
00:27:10
◼
►
it was like in the 30s here in Philly.
00:27:13
◼
►
But it was sort of like, you know,
00:27:16
◼
►
like having earmuffs on, you know,
00:27:19
◼
►
rather than wear a hat, it was like,
00:27:21
◼
►
"Hey, my ear's aren't getting cold."
00:27:24
◼
►
But then I realized it is, you know, it was like, huh.
00:27:29
◼
►
And then all of a sudden I had to take them off,
00:27:31
◼
►
put my mask on, then put them back on.
00:27:33
◼
►
- Yes, definitely not as convenient there, same thing.
00:27:38
◼
►
- But once, you know, when I leave,
00:27:39
◼
►
I don't take the mask off, you know,
00:27:41
◼
►
it's like I mask up in the house, leave,
00:27:43
◼
►
and I don't have to take the mask off
00:27:46
◼
►
while I'm in the store, I'm not like taking free samples
00:27:48
◼
►
or anything like that, so, you know.
00:27:50
◼
►
But when you're using earbuds, you don't have to,
00:27:54
◼
►
you don't have to worry about which order you mask up.
00:27:57
◼
►
- It is valid, it's valid to point out.
00:27:59
◼
►
I mean, I ran into the same thing,
00:28:00
◼
►
I was running to take a package to the store,
00:28:02
◼
►
but because I live in a driving city, not a walking city,
00:28:06
◼
►
I don't wear my mask in my car,
00:28:08
◼
►
and I don't wear my mask when I leave the house, right?
00:28:11
◼
►
So it obviously, yes, you're probably not gonna be driving,
00:28:14
◼
►
or most people are not gonna be driving around
00:28:16
◼
►
with these things on, but just as a test,
00:28:18
◼
►
and because I'm trying to get as much
00:28:20
◼
►
listen time as possible, I wore them out.
00:28:22
◼
►
And yeah, you have to do the juggling thing
00:28:24
◼
►
where you lift them and put a mask loop on
00:28:27
◼
►
and lift the other side and put a mask loop on,
00:28:29
◼
►
and all of that stuff to get it on and off.
00:28:31
◼
►
- I've mentioned this many times, I write about it,
00:28:34
◼
►
and I don't know, maybe it's me,
00:28:35
◼
►
maybe it's a neurotic aspect of my personality,
00:28:39
◼
►
but for years, I mean, going back to the wired earbuds era,
00:28:44
◼
►
I've always listened to podcasts when I'm out running errands
00:28:48
◼
►
and living in the city, I've run most,
00:28:52
◼
►
almost all errands on foot, so it's not like I'm driving
00:28:55
◼
►
while listening to something with headphones on.
00:28:59
◼
►
And whenever I check out, or if I'm at the butcher counter
00:29:03
◼
►
and I'm ordering some meat, I take the buds out of my ear,
00:29:08
◼
►
or at least one of them out of my ear,
00:29:10
◼
►
even if my audio is paused as a social signal
00:29:15
◼
►
to the person I'm dealing with,
00:29:18
◼
►
that you've got my audio attention.
00:29:20
◼
►
And the conundrum I've been in since AirPods Pro come out
00:29:25
◼
►
is that I hear better with my podcast paused
00:29:30
◼
►
and transparency on than I do if I take one out.
00:29:35
◼
►
And the whole taking one out thing, like the problem era--
00:29:40
◼
►
- For those of you listening under 30, just wait.
00:29:45
◼
►
- The problem era of my life was the regular AirPods era,
00:29:51
◼
►
because what do you do with the one you take out, right?
00:29:54
◼
►
It's like now you've got a delicate little thing.
00:29:57
◼
►
- You're gonna set it down on a dirty counter,
00:29:59
◼
►
or no, you're not gonna do that.
00:30:00
◼
►
Put it in your pocket, and then the sensors get covered
00:30:02
◼
►
and it starts playing, it's just awkward.
00:30:04
◼
►
What do I do with it?
00:30:05
◼
►
- You're, exactly, exactly.
00:30:08
◼
►
It's like my coat pocket, I feel, is clean enough
00:30:10
◼
►
where I would do it, but you can put it in there
00:30:12
◼
►
and it thinks it's in a, I don't know, it gets confused,
00:30:15
◼
►
thinks your ear canal is, well, okay, his ears got bigger,
00:30:18
◼
►
but start playing.
00:30:23
◼
►
So transparency, technically, is a huge win.
00:30:27
◼
►
It actually does, it is a superpower.
00:30:31
◼
►
I think we're such a visual species
00:30:36
◼
►
that we tend to think of augmented reality
00:30:39
◼
►
as being primarily visual, but we as a technology
00:30:44
◼
►
civilization are clearly ahead of the game on the audio side.
00:30:48
◼
►
Like, these are augmented reality.
00:30:50
◼
►
And for me, again, in my hearing, I get an annual physical,
00:30:55
◼
►
my hearing, I get two thumbs up every year
00:30:58
◼
►
with the hearing test, you hear the beeps, beep,
00:31:00
◼
►
left, right, you know, so my hearing is good.
00:31:02
◼
►
But I definitely, in like a grocery store
00:31:07
◼
►
with that white noise, background noise of a grocery store,
00:31:10
◼
►
I hear better with transparency, talking to the clerk
00:31:14
◼
►
or the deli person than I do taking them out.
00:31:18
◼
►
But it looks like I'm listening to music or a podcast,
00:31:22
◼
►
right, like I wish that there was some,
00:31:24
◼
►
I don't know what it would be, like a flashing light
00:31:26
◼
►
obviously isn't going to happen, but like--
00:31:30
◼
►
- A red light, you're on air now with me.
00:31:34
◼
►
- We're on the line, caller, welcome.
00:31:39
◼
►
- Yeah, like a red T, like transparency mode,
00:31:42
◼
►
this person is paying attention to you.
00:31:44
◼
►
- But it's way worse with over ears, right,
00:31:47
◼
►
like the whole social signal with over ears,
00:31:49
◼
►
it's like fuck you, don't talk to me,
00:31:50
◼
►
or pardon my French, but you know, don't talk to me,
00:31:55
◼
►
- That's what I look like going to the grocery store,
00:31:57
◼
►
and I know, and I wanted to like, I love this story,
00:32:01
◼
►
you ever hear this story about the card,
00:32:02
◼
►
I don't know if he still carries them,
00:32:03
◼
►
but that Steve Martin carries around cards that say,
00:32:08
◼
►
like when people come up and they're like,
00:32:09
◼
►
hey, you're Steve Martin, can I have your autograph?
00:32:11
◼
►
He has these cards in his pocket that he gives out,
00:32:14
◼
►
and it's a card that just says, this card certifies
00:32:17
◼
►
that you have met Steve Martin.
00:32:18
◼
►
And then the transaction's over,
00:32:22
◼
►
he doesn't have to sign anything,
00:32:24
◼
►
and people, you know, they've got, you know,
00:32:26
◼
►
and it's charming and funny, and oh so Steve Martin.
00:32:29
◼
►
- Yeah, they've got a memento, yeah, a physical memento,
00:32:31
◼
►
it's so much better even than a autograph
00:32:33
◼
►
on some random slip of paper or whatever.
00:32:35
◼
►
- Right, I felt like I needed to take cards around
00:32:38
◼
►
that say I'm listening to you in transparency mode
00:32:41
◼
►
with these headphones, and you've got
00:32:43
◼
►
my full audio attention.
00:32:45
◼
►
But I really felt like I needed it yesterday,
00:32:47
◼
►
or the day before when I had these over-the-ear cans on.
00:32:52
◼
►
And it's like, I want you to know,
00:32:54
◼
►
A, I want you to know I hear you loud and clear,
00:32:57
◼
►
but B, also, I really kinda need to test these
00:33:01
◼
►
in the next 24 hours, and this is it.
00:33:03
◼
►
- I'm not just that guy.
00:33:07
◼
►
- I did, when I checked out, I couldn't do it though.
00:33:09
◼
►
I put 'em down around my neck,
00:33:12
◼
►
and that's when I realized that if you leave them,
00:33:15
◼
►
if you take 'em off your ears long enough,
00:33:17
◼
►
they stop playing.
00:33:19
◼
►
Which brings us to the fact that they don't have
00:33:24
◼
►
an on/off switch, which is a very Apple-like design choice.
00:33:29
◼
►
- Yeah, and I think there's some confusion about that.
00:33:32
◼
►
I know some of the early reviewers
00:33:33
◼
►
or early looks that were published,
00:33:36
◼
►
people seemed confused about that
00:33:39
◼
►
and thought that the only way to stop them
00:33:42
◼
►
from draining essentially at full power,
00:33:45
◼
►
you know, like they're on, is to put them in the case.
00:33:49
◼
►
Which does, if you say, if you assume
00:33:52
◼
►
that that's the only way to turn them off fully,
00:33:55
◼
►
that is kind of annoying, right?
00:33:56
◼
►
Hey, I gotta use this case at all times
00:33:59
◼
►
unless I want my headphones to drain, you know,
00:34:02
◼
►
completely over the course of 10 hours or whatever.
00:34:05
◼
►
But that's not true.
00:34:08
◼
►
So the case is, it puts them into what they call
00:34:13
◼
►
an ultra low power mode, right?
00:34:15
◼
►
Which is, the way I compare this is
00:34:19
◼
►
if you take the headphones off,
00:34:20
◼
►
actually, let me run it through,
00:34:21
◼
►
'cause this is a couple things that I picked up.
00:34:23
◼
►
So if you take the headphones off,
00:34:24
◼
►
immediately they stop playing, right?
00:34:26
◼
►
Just ear detection or head detection.
00:34:28
◼
►
The sensor inside says, hey, this isn't on an ear,
00:34:30
◼
►
I'm gonna stop.
00:34:31
◼
►
That's an AirPods thing, all the AirPods do that.
00:34:33
◼
►
Then after about 15 seconds or so,
00:34:36
◼
►
they actually shut down the connection
00:34:39
◼
►
between the device that it was connected to
00:34:42
◼
►
and the headphones.
00:34:43
◼
►
So that saves a ton more power, right?
00:34:45
◼
►
'Cause it says, hey, I'm no longer connected to this phone.
00:34:47
◼
►
I'm just gonna go, you know, you're not playing anything
00:34:49
◼
►
from the phone right now, I'm not on your head,
00:34:51
◼
►
and in fact, maybe I'm still,
00:34:53
◼
►
'cause remember the H1s have accelerometers in them.
00:34:55
◼
►
It says, I'm gonna chill out and cut off this connection,
00:34:58
◼
►
'cause that's using up power that's not necessary.
00:35:00
◼
►
And then I believe there's one more stage
00:35:03
◼
►
of sort of hibernation that is not,
00:35:06
◼
►
you know, it's essentially what you would call
00:35:08
◼
►
a low power mode.
00:35:09
◼
►
And so the difference between that state
00:35:12
◼
►
and what you're talking about with the case,
00:35:15
◼
►
the way that I've come to think of it is that it's like,
00:35:18
◼
►
I'm asleep versus I'm in,
00:35:20
◼
►
versus I'm in carbonite, right?
00:35:23
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I'm frozen in carbonite.
00:35:25
◼
►
If you're frozen in carbonite, you're alive, but barely.
00:35:28
◼
►
Isn't that the phrase?
00:35:31
◼
►
Is he alive?
00:35:32
◼
►
Barely, I don't know.
00:35:32
◼
►
But I can't remember.
00:35:34
◼
►
That's the basic states.
00:35:36
◼
►
Like it's carbonite frozen,
00:35:39
◼
►
the only sensor that's on is,
00:35:41
◼
►
is this in the case or not?
00:35:44
◼
►
That's pretty much the only sensor that's alive
00:35:46
◼
►
in the headphones when it's in a case,
00:35:48
◼
►
which is why it can last so long once it's in there.
00:35:50
◼
►
And it's obviously just a magnet, right?
00:35:52
◼
►
That says, hey, yo, you're in this case.
00:35:53
◼
►
Just like the iPad Smart Cover.
00:35:55
◼
►
But then when you take them out and like you wear them
00:35:58
◼
►
and then you take them off and you set them down,
00:36:00
◼
►
they go into a state that, yes,
00:36:02
◼
►
we'll use more battery than is in the case,
00:36:04
◼
►
but it's not the same thing as on, right?
00:36:08
◼
►
And this whole disambiguation of the term on or off
00:36:13
◼
►
is very Apple.
00:36:14
◼
►
Like what does on even mean in a world
00:36:18
◼
►
with low power chips, right?
00:36:20
◼
►
Like you can see the conversation,
00:36:21
◼
►
the philosophical conversation happening, right?
00:36:23
◼
►
In the audio department at Apple where they're like,
00:36:25
◼
►
but what does on even mean?
00:36:28
◼
►
You know, what is off, right?
00:36:30
◼
►
But I think that's like where some of the confusion
00:36:32
◼
►
came from, which is too surprising.
00:36:34
◼
►
If you make assumptions that, hey,
00:36:37
◼
►
the case puts them into the lowest power mode possible
00:36:40
◼
►
and there's no off switch,
00:36:41
◼
►
maybe they don't get turned off until you put them
00:36:43
◼
►
in the case, but that's not technically true.
00:36:44
◼
►
There's shades of off there.
00:36:47
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's also the exact sort of thing
00:36:50
◼
►
that by its nature is extremely difficult to write about
00:36:54
◼
►
within 24 or 36 hours of getting them
00:36:58
◼
►
if you're going to spend most of your waking hours
00:37:01
◼
►
in those 24 hours using them.
00:37:05
◼
►
So here's what I did.
00:37:06
◼
►
I actually, I should have written it down.
00:37:08
◼
►
I believe when I went to put them down last night,
00:37:12
◼
►
I put them down outside the case
00:37:14
◼
►
and I think they were at 81%
00:37:16
◼
►
and I just looked right now as you were speaking,
00:37:20
◼
►
they're at 74%.
00:37:22
◼
►
So don't quote me on that.
00:37:24
◼
►
It was somewhere around 80.
00:37:26
◼
►
So maybe they lost 5% of their power
00:37:29
◼
►
over the last 14 hours.
00:37:33
◼
►
- So I could give you a little bit more accuracy on that.
00:37:35
◼
►
See, I ran essentially the same test.
00:37:39
◼
►
And so they, I think about 4 p.m. to 4.30 p.m. yesterday,
00:37:44
◼
►
I had charged them full and then unplugged them.
00:37:49
◼
►
And then I used them for maybe a handful of minutes
00:37:52
◼
►
and then after work I had to cook dinner
00:37:54
◼
►
and all of that stuff.
00:37:55
◼
►
So I actually didn't use them much last night.
00:37:57
◼
►
So I actually took them off, set them on my desk
00:38:00
◼
►
around 5 p.m. and left them there all night.
00:38:04
◼
►
So that's over 12 hours, almost 14, 15 hours, right?
00:38:09
◼
►
Or almost 20 hours.
00:38:10
◼
►
Now, when we started this call,
00:38:13
◼
►
which was let's say about 40 minutes ago,
00:38:17
◼
►
I put them on and started using them for this call.
00:38:20
◼
►
I'm using them right now, right?
00:38:21
◼
►
To listen to this call or to listen to you.
00:38:23
◼
►
And they are at 96%.
00:38:26
◼
►
So it's whatever power they're using overnight,
00:38:30
◼
►
they're not on in the traditional sense.
00:38:33
◼
►
- Right, right. - Or sorry,
00:38:34
◼
►
whatever the power they're using laying on a desk
00:38:36
◼
►
or off your head, but not in a case, right?
00:38:39
◼
►
I did not put them in the case.
00:38:40
◼
►
And so I think that there's, that's a pretty easy tell
00:38:43
◼
►
that they're definitely not on, on.
00:38:46
◼
►
- All right, let me take a break
00:38:47
◼
►
and thank our first sponsor.
00:38:48
◼
►
It's our good friends at Mack Weldon.
00:38:51
◼
►
I did not cook the books on this.
00:38:52
◼
►
The fix is not in, but I didn't even know
00:38:56
◼
►
that they were gonna be sponsoring this episode
00:38:58
◼
►
until I came down and I was already dressed.
00:39:00
◼
►
I'm wearing a Mack Weldon waffle shirt
00:39:03
◼
►
and then on top of it, a Mack Weldon hoodie.
00:39:06
◼
►
As I record this read, I do, I wear their stuff and love it.
00:39:11
◼
►
When it comes to holiday gifting for guys,
00:39:16
◼
►
they've got a lot of stuff and you've got time,
00:39:19
◼
►
if you order, as you listen to this, when it's new,
00:39:21
◼
►
you could definitely get some stuff delivered in time
00:39:24
◼
►
for the holidays.
00:39:25
◼
►
Mack Weldon sells men's basics that are guaranteed
00:39:28
◼
►
to keep everyone on your list comfortable.
00:39:30
◼
►
Their stuff is great.
00:39:32
◼
►
I love the style of it, I love the fit of it,
00:39:35
◼
►
I love the, it lasts.
00:39:37
◼
►
I don't even know which of my stuff from them
00:39:38
◼
►
is my older stuff from a year or two back
00:39:41
◼
►
and which is the stuff I've bought recently.
00:39:43
◼
►
They started with stuff like the under the clothes stuff,
00:39:47
◼
►
like hoodies, or not hoodies, underwear and undershirts
00:39:51
◼
►
and socks, but they have everything.
00:39:54
◼
►
They've got polos, they've got hoodies.
00:39:56
◼
►
The hoodie I'm wearing right now, I absolutely love.
00:39:58
◼
►
It's one of my favorites.
00:40:00
◼
►
My son has the same hoodie in a slightly smaller size.
00:40:03
◼
►
He loves it too.
00:40:04
◼
►
Really, it's just great stuff.
00:40:06
◼
►
Just really, really great stuff.
00:40:10
◼
►
Don't even get me started on the slippers.
00:40:11
◼
►
Merlin and I, a couple episodes ago,
00:40:13
◼
►
told you all about the slippers, but the slippers,
00:40:15
◼
►
I mean, for God's sake, they're just the best.
00:40:18
◼
►
Anyway, they've also got a loyalty program.
00:40:22
◼
►
It is so easy.
00:40:24
◼
►
All you have to do is buy stuff
00:40:25
◼
►
and it just puts you into the loyalty program.
00:40:29
◼
►
Once you get to level one, you get free shipping for life
00:40:32
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All right, we gotta talk about this case
00:41:32
◼
►
before we get off there, Puds Max.
00:41:34
◼
►
The case. (laughing)
00:41:37
◼
►
I know people were dunking on it immediately,
00:41:42
◼
►
but it wasn't until I saw it in person
00:41:44
◼
►
that I realized how much,
00:41:46
◼
►
and I don't know, I don't know.
00:41:48
◼
►
My joke is that it's like,
00:41:50
◼
►
I don't know which half of the bikini emoji it looks like.
00:41:53
◼
►
Does it look like a butt from behind?
00:41:56
◼
►
Or does it look like a bikini top from the front?
00:41:59
◼
►
It's a funny looking thing.
00:42:03
◼
►
It's obviously that they designed the headphones.
00:42:08
◼
►
Here's my guess as to how this happened.
00:42:10
◼
►
They designed the headphones.
00:42:11
◼
►
They made the headphones they wanted to make
00:42:14
◼
►
and then they were like,
00:42:15
◼
►
well, how do we put these in a case?
00:42:16
◼
►
And then they designed a case around the headphones.
00:42:18
◼
►
And if the case turned out looking a little funny,
00:42:21
◼
►
well, that's just it.
00:42:23
◼
►
They're not gonna make the headphones different
00:42:25
◼
►
just to make the case look better, I guess.
00:42:28
◼
►
I did not draw the comparison to the Duo dock,
00:42:35
◼
►
the MagSafe Duo dock.
00:42:38
◼
►
You did in your review.
00:42:40
◼
►
And it's like when that part of your review,
00:42:42
◼
►
it was like boom, light bulb, yes, that's the problem.
00:42:47
◼
►
The MagSafe Duo charging dock
00:42:50
◼
►
feels like a cheap jack piece of,
00:42:54
◼
►
if it cost 50 bucks, it would be like,
00:42:58
◼
►
yeah, fine, I'll buy one.
00:42:59
◼
►
50 bucks, that's a cool thing to take in my travel case.
00:43:02
◼
►
For $140 or $130 without the $20 charger it requires,
00:43:08
◼
►
it just doesn't feel commensurate with the price.
00:43:13
◼
►
It feels like a $50 charger.
00:43:14
◼
►
- Even that thing has the redeeming quality
00:43:18
◼
►
of having a couple of pieces of nice aluminum in it.
00:43:20
◼
►
The mounts for the watch and the magnet ring for the phone,
00:43:26
◼
►
at least those scream like,
00:43:30
◼
►
hey, there's some Apple stuff in here.
00:43:32
◼
►
Whereas this is, I don't know what this is.
00:43:36
◼
►
You know what it reminds me of, John?
00:43:40
◼
►
It reminds me of when you don't have a paper towel
00:43:45
◼
►
and you wrap your sandwich in a napkin.
00:43:49
◼
►
Where you know a paper towel is more durable.
00:43:53
◼
►
It's got some heft to it.
00:43:55
◼
►
I mean, I'm not saying that everybody wraps
00:43:57
◼
►
your sandwich in a paper towel,
00:43:58
◼
►
but let's say you're gonna pick it up
00:43:59
◼
►
and you're gonna eat it and it's a little sloppy,
00:44:00
◼
►
it's got some juice on it.
00:44:02
◼
►
And you're like, I wanna wrap something
00:44:03
◼
►
around the bottom of this.
00:44:04
◼
►
Like you made it at home.
00:44:06
◼
►
It's like you wrap a Subway wrapper
00:44:07
◼
►
around the bottom of the sandwich and eat the top
00:44:08
◼
►
if you're walking and talking.
00:44:10
◼
►
When you wrap a paper towel around it,
00:44:14
◼
►
you're like, this paper towel's gonna last.
00:44:15
◼
►
It's gonna absorb, it's gonna soak some stuff up.
00:44:18
◼
►
It's gonna be chill.
00:44:19
◼
►
You wrap a napkin around it, you got holes in that thing,
00:44:22
◼
►
you got fibers coming off.
00:44:24
◼
►
That's what this looks like.
00:44:25
◼
►
It looks like you took the headphones
00:44:27
◼
►
and wrapped them in a napkin and it got holes in it.
00:44:29
◼
►
It's like, oh, hey, I just need to wrap this
00:44:31
◼
►
in something real quick and just take it down the block
00:44:33
◼
►
and give my neighbor some chocolate chip cookies.
00:44:34
◼
►
I just need to wrap it in this napkin.
00:44:37
◼
►
And then by the time you get there,
00:44:38
◼
►
the napkin's barely holding on.
00:44:39
◼
►
That's what this looks like.
00:44:40
◼
►
It's like, why?
00:44:41
◼
►
Why go through all the effort to produce
00:44:45
◼
►
what is probably one of the more over-engineered,
00:44:50
◼
►
precision-machined pieces of headphone gear I've ever seen
00:44:55
◼
►
and then wrap it in this?
00:44:57
◼
►
It's honestly insulting to the product itself.
00:45:03
◼
►
I don't get it.
00:45:04
◼
►
It's really awkward.
00:45:05
◼
►
- I think a couple of the other reviewers
00:45:10
◼
►
have mentioned this.
00:45:11
◼
►
I haven't caught up on all the YouTube reviews,
00:45:13
◼
►
but when I unboxed it, my son was here,
00:45:16
◼
►
and he was keenly interested.
00:45:17
◼
►
My son is probably more of a headphone fan than I am.
00:45:20
◼
►
- What kid is it, John?
00:45:24
◼
►
We all loved headphones 'cause they shut our parents up.
00:45:26
◼
►
- I know. (laughs)
00:45:28
◼
►
Well, but now in addition to shutting up his parents,
00:45:31
◼
►
it also connects with his friends.
00:45:33
◼
►
So it's, from my era, it's a combination headphones
00:45:38
◼
►
and telephone.
00:45:40
◼
►
- And telephone, exactly, 'cause I got Discord
00:45:43
◼
►
and he's talking to his friends and all that.
00:45:45
◼
►
- So he's, of all the stuff that's come in,
00:45:48
◼
►
he was more keenly interested in these
00:45:50
◼
►
than anything recently, I think.
00:45:53
◼
►
Although the M1 Mac definitely interested him.
00:45:56
◼
►
But he couldn't believe that the case
00:46:02
◼
►
wasn't part of the packaging.
00:46:05
◼
►
And it's weird because there is packaging around the case.
00:46:09
◼
►
There is a typical white, not onion paper,
00:46:14
◼
►
but Apple's version of onion paper around it.
00:46:17
◼
►
But you take that off and it feels like
00:46:19
◼
►
there's just this second level of wrapping
00:46:22
◼
►
around the headphones, and it's like,
00:46:23
◼
►
"No, no, that's the case."
00:46:24
◼
►
And they have a soft touch material inside.
00:46:28
◼
►
I'm sure it's not suede.
00:46:30
◼
►
There's no way they're gonna ship leather,
00:46:33
◼
►
actual leather to everybody, both cost-wise
00:46:36
◼
►
and the fact that some people don't wanna buy leather stuff.
00:46:39
◼
►
It's some kind of artificial suede soft touch thing.
00:46:44
◼
►
And it's not bad to the touch,
00:46:45
◼
►
but that outer material is either identical to
00:46:49
◼
►
or might as well be the kissing cousin
00:46:52
◼
►
of that rubbery stuff that they make
00:46:54
◼
►
like iPad covers out of,
00:46:58
◼
►
and the Duo charging dock in particular.
00:47:01
◼
►
It's like, "Yeah, that's the same stuff."
00:47:03
◼
►
And it's not a bad material,
00:47:05
◼
►
but it is not a premium material.
00:47:08
◼
►
And there is no doubt in my mind,
00:47:10
◼
►
even if you're a, you know,
00:47:12
◼
►
like I'm thinking about how I travel,
00:47:17
◼
►
when I go on an airplane.
00:47:18
◼
►
And it's not like I fill up my backpack
00:47:22
◼
►
or briefcase or whatever bag I'm taking with me.
00:47:24
◼
►
I've switched to a briefcase,
00:47:26
◼
►
but right before the pandemic hit.
00:47:29
◼
►
So I was like, "Why did I spend all this money
00:47:32
◼
►
"on a leather briefcase?"
00:47:33
◼
►
And I don't go anywhere.
00:47:34
◼
►
It's like, you know,
00:47:37
◼
►
I'm not putting unwrapped candy bars in there.
00:47:42
◼
►
I don't have potted plants in there.
00:47:45
◼
►
It's like, you know, it's computer stuff
00:47:47
◼
►
and books and magazines.
00:47:49
◼
►
So it's all clean stuff.
00:47:51
◼
►
But yet somehow my hard case for my bows
00:47:56
◼
►
is kind of beat up, right?
00:47:58
◼
►
It's just the nature of travel, right?
00:48:01
◼
►
You can be as neat as you want
00:48:04
◼
►
and put clean stuff in a bag,
00:48:06
◼
►
but you're stuffing it into overhead bins.
00:48:08
◼
►
You're stuffing it under the seat.
00:48:10
◼
►
- It happens.
00:48:14
◼
►
It just picks up battle scars over time.
00:48:17
◼
►
- And I'm a careful person.
00:48:18
◼
►
Like other people may not be so careful, you know?
00:48:22
◼
►
Yeah, it picks up scars.
00:48:23
◼
►
This stuff, especially the non-space gray colors,
00:48:26
◼
►
there's just no way it's gonna stay clean looking.
00:48:29
◼
►
Space gray maybe will take a beating
00:48:33
◼
►
and maybe will look better with the beating,
00:48:35
◼
►
but like the blue and the green and the silver,
00:48:39
◼
►
it's like, it just does not seem meant for that.
00:48:42
◼
►
I don't know.
00:48:43
◼
►
It's like there's a certain part of Apple
00:48:45
◼
►
that just, as practical as they mostly are,
00:48:48
◼
►
and I think the headphones themselves
00:48:51
◼
►
are very practically designed for the real world.
00:48:54
◼
►
The case, it just is not.
00:48:56
◼
►
And it's not a case, it's a pouch, right?
00:48:59
◼
►
- Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:49:02
◼
►
- And it's $550. - I don't know.
00:49:06
◼
►
It is, it's just insane.
00:49:08
◼
►
And there's no justifying it.
00:49:10
◼
►
I'm not gonna dance around trying to go like,
00:49:12
◼
►
oh, well, maybe this is clearly, clearly
00:49:16
◼
►
one of those things where at the last minute,
00:49:17
◼
►
they're like, shit, did anybody decide?
00:49:21
◼
►
Did anybody think about a case?
00:49:23
◼
►
Because like, I don't know.
00:49:25
◼
►
Like the product shots show people holding it
00:49:27
◼
►
by the handle and all of this stuff.
00:49:29
◼
►
- Like a purse, right? - I don't know.
00:49:30
◼
►
- You know, it's like-- - Yeah, like a purse.
00:49:32
◼
►
I think that it would have been better
00:49:33
◼
►
for them to ship it without a case,
00:49:35
◼
►
because you know what that tells people?
00:49:37
◼
►
This is for the home, and if you're gonna travel with it,
00:49:39
◼
►
we'll come up with something for you,
00:49:41
◼
►
or you can fit it into your life, right?
00:49:43
◼
►
Put it in a pouch, put it in a bag, put it in whatever, right?
00:49:45
◼
►
Like, you know, put it in, even a drawstring bag,
00:49:48
◼
►
a lot of premium headphones.
00:49:51
◼
►
Like a lot of studio monitor headphones
00:49:53
◼
►
come with a drawstring bag, right?
00:49:55
◼
►
Some of them come with something fancier,
00:49:56
◼
►
but a lot of them come with like a, you know,
00:49:59
◼
►
a nice kind of pouch, drawstring bag type thing
00:50:02
◼
►
that either you use because you are that kind of person,
00:50:06
◼
►
or you put in the box and never ever take out, right?
00:50:09
◼
►
They would have been better off
00:50:11
◼
►
to go with that kind of situation than something half-assed,
00:50:15
◼
►
because I do believe it lowers the,
00:50:18
◼
►
it lowers the whole product, right?
00:50:20
◼
►
It doesn't elevate the product, it lowers the product.
00:50:23
◼
►
Everything about the packaging and execution of this thing
00:50:27
◼
►
screams expensive, high-quality headphones.
00:50:30
◼
►
The box has that lovely emboss,
00:50:33
◼
►
the headband has this mesh
00:50:36
◼
►
that nobody else would think to execute,
00:50:38
◼
►
because it's like, who would think to do that, right?
00:50:41
◼
►
That you can't, you know, that's hard to do,
00:50:44
◼
►
materials-wise, to attach it with very little glue
00:50:47
◼
►
and very little attachment, you know,
00:50:48
◼
►
to bond it in the way that they did.
00:50:51
◼
►
The pistons on the headphones that extend them,
00:50:54
◼
►
it's not some cheap like rail system,
00:50:56
◼
►
it's like a car piston that slides out.
00:50:59
◼
►
All of this stuff screams like,
00:51:01
◼
►
we worked on this a long time and it was hard,
00:51:04
◼
►
and here it is.
00:51:06
◼
►
And then the case screams like, you know,
00:51:09
◼
►
here's this shit too. (laughs)
00:51:10
◼
►
- Right, the piston feels like you could use the piston
00:51:15
◼
►
for extending the cups out, further out,
00:51:19
◼
►
to accommodate a larger, smaller head,
00:51:22
◼
►
pull 'em out, push 'em back in for fit.
00:51:25
◼
►
The pistons alone feel like you could teach
00:51:28
◼
►
half a semester of industrial design at a university
00:51:32
◼
►
by studying the piston design alone.
00:51:34
◼
►
It's that interesting, materials,
00:51:37
◼
►
and it's like, how does this, it feels magical, right?
00:51:41
◼
►
Because it doesn't click, it doesn't have steps,
00:51:44
◼
►
but it does, it holds its shape.
00:51:46
◼
►
I mean, will it over time?
00:51:48
◼
►
Again, who knows, you know, three,
00:51:49
◼
►
come back to me in three years and see if it still is tight.
00:51:53
◼
►
But yeah, super premium.
00:51:56
◼
►
Just the pistons alone, very, very premium
00:51:59
◼
►
in a way that just blows away the Bose that I have,
00:52:02
◼
►
which are fine, right?
00:52:03
◼
►
They click, you know, and they feel way sturdier
00:52:07
◼
►
than the Bose Quiet Comforts of old,
00:52:09
◼
►
which used to snap after 18 months.
00:52:12
◼
►
Like, guaranteed to snap 18 months after you fry 'em.
00:52:17
◼
►
- You know, it's like, but the case, Jesus.
00:52:21
◼
►
I don't know what they're thinking.
00:52:24
◼
►
- Me neither, it's almost not--
00:52:28
◼
►
- And then the worst part is you kinda need it
00:52:30
◼
►
to put 'em in the hibernate, right?
00:52:32
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:52:33
◼
►
Like, if you would've had a nice shell case
00:52:37
◼
►
that said, hey, this is a little bulky on the case side,
00:52:42
◼
►
but it's the nest that your headphones live in, right?
00:52:48
◼
►
- They go in there to hibernate and you keep them safe
00:52:50
◼
►
and they're protected.
00:52:51
◼
►
Like, imagine, like the Bose QCs have that hard shell,
00:52:55
◼
►
you know, deal that zips up.
00:52:58
◼
►
Or I think it's like a soft hard shell now, you know,
00:53:01
◼
►
it's like a combination floppy thing.
00:53:03
◼
►
But something like that, even in the same exterior material,
00:53:08
◼
►
I could see the complaint being,
00:53:09
◼
►
oh man, this is gonna get dirty, but hey, you know,
00:53:11
◼
►
it's a safe home for my $500 or $550 headphones.
00:53:15
◼
►
I get it, right?
00:53:17
◼
►
That makes sense.
00:53:18
◼
►
This doesn't make any sense.
00:53:20
◼
►
Because it leaves the most delicate part
00:53:22
◼
►
of what you would think to be the headphone exposed.
00:53:24
◼
►
Like the material, sure, if you don't want
00:53:27
◼
►
these aluminum things to scratch, I get it.
00:53:30
◼
►
But at the same time, who cares, who gives a crap, right?
00:53:34
◼
►
The headband though, it's a mesh.
00:53:37
◼
►
- Like we're gonna stick it in there
00:53:38
◼
►
with my pens and pocket knives
00:53:39
◼
►
and I forget to close it all the way or whatever.
00:53:41
◼
►
Like, protect that, you know?
00:53:43
◼
►
I mean, it's weird, it's weird, it's just all weird.
00:53:46
◼
►
- Right, like you could get a scratch on the ear cups
00:53:48
◼
►
and it's a scratch.
00:53:49
◼
►
It's like getting a scratch on the back of your phone,
00:53:51
◼
►
I mean, you know, people might care,
00:53:53
◼
►
but I don't wanna get a hole poked in the mesh, you know?
00:53:57
◼
►
- Right, right.
00:53:58
◼
►
- Anyway, I'm still not quite sure what to make of it.
00:54:02
◼
►
I'm glad, I know, I guess we, you know, 550 bucks.
00:54:07
◼
►
It is premium and it's a bad year to come out
00:54:10
◼
►
with premium $550 headphones.
00:54:13
◼
►
I mean, times are tough.
00:54:14
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah. - The world is a mess.
00:54:16
◼
►
But, you know, there is this whole world of high-end audio
00:54:22
◼
►
and $550 isn't even the highest of the high by far.
00:54:30
◼
►
I'm glad Apple is making, shooting
00:54:33
◼
►
for super premium headphones.
00:54:35
◼
►
And same way with HomePod, right?
00:54:40
◼
►
And it's like, I know, you know, people are,
00:54:42
◼
►
a lot of people think, you know, the reason Apple is behind
00:54:45
◼
►
in market share on home talk-tier dingus devices
00:54:50
◼
►
is that HomePod was their only standalone device
00:54:52
◼
►
until they came out with the Mini
00:54:54
◼
►
and it started at 300 bucks.
00:54:56
◼
►
Or maybe it was 350 when it first came out.
00:54:57
◼
►
And that's a lot more than all these $50 pucks
00:55:00
◼
►
that everybody else makes.
00:55:02
◼
►
But I'm glad they make HomePod that sounds so amazing.
00:55:05
◼
►
I really am.
00:55:07
◼
►
But it's, you know, there seems to be a bit of a gap
00:55:13
◼
►
in price between AirPods Pro and AirPods Max
00:55:17
◼
►
where there could be another set of headphones in between.
00:55:20
◼
►
- In between, yeah.
00:55:22
◼
►
It's a pretty big, I mean, they shot for the outside edge
00:55:26
◼
►
before the middle edge, right?
00:55:28
◼
►
Now it is gap filling, right?
00:55:30
◼
►
You have people who are obviously buying
00:55:33
◼
►
and Apple can see obviously very well
00:55:35
◼
►
that people buy Beats, right?
00:55:37
◼
►
And they know how many people buy them
00:55:38
◼
►
and they know that that price is, you know,
00:55:41
◼
►
in the middle of the $300 bracket.
00:55:43
◼
►
And, you know, they're still benefiting from that
00:55:46
◼
►
in that they own Beats and all of that.
00:55:49
◼
►
But that also proves out the need and the desire for people
00:55:53
◼
►
to have something in that universe
00:55:55
◼
►
that supports the most advanced features
00:55:58
◼
►
that Apple has shipped in any audio devices so far, right?
00:56:01
◼
►
Which to me is really the point of these headphones.
00:56:05
◼
►
It's not, you know, at the beginning of this conversation,
00:56:08
◼
►
I was like, hey, I'm not really interested
00:56:09
◼
►
in comparing these to non-NC headphones
00:56:12
◼
►
because by nature, anytime you introduce processing
00:56:14
◼
►
into the audio path,
00:56:16
◼
►
it's no longer a pristine audio device, right?
00:56:20
◼
►
It's just, that's not about that transmitting
00:56:23
◼
►
the pure fidelity of the original recording directly
00:56:28
◼
►
to your ears as little, you know, fuss as possible.
00:56:31
◼
►
There are absolutely headphones and applications for that.
00:56:35
◼
►
I get it, you know, recording audio files,
00:56:39
◼
►
listening to the original vinyl and, you know,
00:56:42
◼
►
if you've got a $1,500 vinyl record player, you know,
00:56:46
◼
►
this is nothing, you know,
00:56:47
◼
►
you want headphones that transmit that, you know,
00:56:50
◼
►
or $2,000 record player or more, whatever,
00:56:53
◼
►
you get the drift.
00:56:54
◼
►
But this, that's not that at all.
00:56:56
◼
►
So then you have to ask yourself, like, what is this about?
00:56:59
◼
►
Like, what's the purpose of shipping these?
00:57:04
◼
►
And the two H1 chips, nine microphones,
00:57:09
◼
►
like every trick that they've learned so far in audio
00:57:13
◼
►
is in these things.
00:57:15
◼
►
And it's tied to, of course,
00:57:16
◼
►
all of the tricks that they've introduced on iOS
00:57:20
◼
►
for, you know, positional audio, the spatial audio
00:57:24
◼
►
that they're shipping, right?
00:57:25
◼
►
You have the adaptive EQ, which says,
00:57:27
◼
►
hey, I'm gonna read the seal of your ears.
00:57:29
◼
►
Some other headphones do this,
00:57:30
◼
►
but not to the efficacy of these.
00:57:33
◼
►
It's better than any of the others I've tried.
00:57:36
◼
►
I will say that there is a,
00:57:37
◼
►
there is a case to be made here that what they're doing
00:57:42
◼
►
is exactly what you were alluding to on the AR front,
00:57:44
◼
►
that they are building out this sort of platform.
00:57:48
◼
►
And in my original first, you know,
00:57:52
◼
►
gasp review of the AirPods,
00:57:54
◼
►
'cause they came out at the same time as an iPhone,
00:57:56
◼
►
and I like tucked my AirPods review into that,
00:57:58
◼
►
but I also broke it out 'cause I felt like,
00:58:00
◼
►
you know, it's worth talking about on its own a little bit.
00:58:03
◼
►
And it was like, hey, this is audio AR, you know,
00:58:06
◼
►
get ready, you know, we're gonna be looking at this.
00:58:08
◼
►
And that was, you know,
00:58:10
◼
►
I can't remember when they came out now,
00:58:11
◼
►
the years blend together, several years ago, right?
00:58:14
◼
►
But that was basically, you know,
00:58:16
◼
►
me trying to be all fun and future looking and say,
00:58:19
◼
►
hey, what if, what if, what if, what if?
00:58:20
◼
►
Well, we're in what if now.
00:58:22
◼
►
You know, it's creating, when you put these on,
00:58:24
◼
►
the larger drivers, the ear cup, the comfort,
00:58:28
◼
►
and the, now the content that supports that most
00:58:31
◼
►
and all of this stuff,
00:58:33
◼
►
it crafts a soundstage for you that feels real.
00:58:36
◼
►
It feels like you're listening to the audio
00:58:38
◼
►
without headphones on.
00:58:40
◼
►
If you're looking at this, you know,
00:58:41
◼
►
if you're watching the kind of content that supports it,
00:58:43
◼
►
right, it's not all content,
00:58:44
◼
►
it's only on iOS devices.
00:58:47
◼
►
There's a lot of limitations here so far, right?
00:58:50
◼
►
- But if you are looking,
00:58:51
◼
►
you're watching an episode of a show on the iOS device
00:58:56
◼
►
that supports that most and the spatial audio is on,
00:59:00
◼
►
and you turn it off, the soundstage like vanishes
00:59:04
◼
►
and you're getting a single flat kind of,
00:59:06
◼
►
hey, here's audio presentation, sounds good, but whatever.
00:59:10
◼
►
When you turn it on, it really is insane.
00:59:13
◼
►
Like it's really incredible the breadth and depth
00:59:16
◼
►
of the soundstage there.
00:59:17
◼
►
I mean, I've spent, I spent years,
00:59:19
◼
►
like 10 years installing home theater audio,
00:59:22
◼
►
and I know what a good soundstage sounds like.
00:59:24
◼
►
I'm not the world's expert on this stuff,
00:59:27
◼
►
but I know how to set up a home theater system.
00:59:29
◼
►
I know how to set up 7.1 and 5.1.
00:59:32
◼
►
It's actually really good.
00:59:36
◼
►
Definitely not to the par of some sort
00:59:38
◼
►
of actual physical installation,
00:59:40
◼
►
it would never probably will be,
00:59:42
◼
►
but maybe, you know, it's actually really getting close.
00:59:46
◼
►
It's way, way better than any of those like
00:59:49
◼
►
fake sound bar-y type things where they're like,
00:59:51
◼
►
hey, we'll project your audio for you.
00:59:53
◼
►
And they just kind of like use a little beam forming.
00:59:55
◼
►
It's way better than that.
00:59:56
◼
►
It's pretty incredible.
00:59:58
◼
►
And so I think that it's really a test bed
00:59:59
◼
►
for all of those technologies.
01:00:01
◼
►
It is the best you can get right now
01:00:04
◼
►
in a headphone version of a home theater audio setup.
01:00:09
◼
►
But the downsides, of course,
01:00:11
◼
►
we're all still there.
01:00:13
◼
►
It only works on iOS.
01:00:14
◼
►
It's only on portable devices like an iPad or whatever.
01:00:16
◼
►
You can't watch your Apple TV and get that spatial audio.
01:00:19
◼
►
It doesn't work yet, you know, that kind of thing.
01:00:21
◼
►
- It seems crazy to me.
01:00:22
◼
►
I blew a chunk of my review complaining about it.
01:00:25
◼
►
It seems crazy that it doesn't work with Apple TV.
01:00:27
◼
►
I mean, like, it is quite possibly
01:00:32
◼
►
a better audio experience than you could get
01:00:36
◼
►
from any speakers, right?
01:00:38
◼
►
'Cause it's right there personally for you,
01:00:41
◼
►
like in the way that VR goggles
01:00:45
◼
►
are gonna give you a better VR experience
01:00:47
◼
►
than a screen ever could, right?
01:00:52
◼
►
- It's like, you know, like the old Star Trek holodeck.
01:00:55
◼
►
Never really added up the way, like, wait,
01:00:58
◼
►
if it's just a bunch of, if it's just four walls
01:01:01
◼
►
in like a racquetball court,
01:01:02
◼
►
how are they protecting stuff in the middle?
01:01:04
◼
►
But whatever is the future.
01:01:07
◼
►
Like, in the way that for true VR,
01:01:11
◼
►
you really need goggles that are personal for you,
01:01:14
◼
►
and if you and I are having the same experience,
01:01:16
◼
►
we both need goggles so that we're both
01:01:18
◼
►
getting a personal experience.
01:01:19
◼
►
I think that it's quite possible that for that spatial audio
01:01:23
◼
►
you're getting a better experience from these headphones
01:01:25
◼
►
than you would from any speaker set up in a room.
01:01:28
◼
►
'Cause it's for you.
01:01:29
◼
►
And maybe you could set the speakers up
01:01:31
◼
►
so there's one sweet spot in the middle
01:01:33
◼
►
where like two people sitting in the middle of the room
01:01:36
◼
►
get the perfect experience.
01:01:37
◼
►
But everybody else aren't because they're not in the center.
01:01:41
◼
►
Why, you get this, the best possible audio experience
01:01:47
◼
►
to watch a blockbuster action movie
01:01:49
◼
►
and you have to watch it on an iPad?
01:01:52
◼
►
To get, that's the biggest screen you can get?
01:01:54
◼
►
It's insane.
01:01:57
◼
►
It just seems crazy to me.
01:01:58
◼
►
Anyway, I'll pick this up 'cause I wanna keep going.
01:02:00
◼
►
But let me take a break while I'm thinking about it
01:02:01
◼
►
and thank our next sponsor.
01:02:03
◼
►
Oh, I love this company.
01:02:04
◼
►
They're sponsoring Daring Fireball this week.
01:02:06
◼
►
It's the rare two shot where their sponsorship coincides
01:02:11
◼
►
with the website and the podcast.
01:02:13
◼
►
'Cause I'm not good at juggling things.
01:02:16
◼
►
Kolide, or Kolide, actually I learned
01:02:18
◼
►
that I mispronounced their name among many others.
01:02:21
◼
►
But it looks like Kolide, K-O-L-I-D-E,
01:02:23
◼
►
but they pronounce it Kolide.
01:02:25
◼
►
Anyway, they're an endpoint security company
01:02:26
◼
►
for teams at Slack and they have just released
01:02:29
◼
►
a free guide called Honest Security.
01:02:32
◼
►
And they want me to tell you about it.
01:02:35
◼
►
In the guide, Kolide, Kolide shares and expands
01:02:39
◼
►
on everything they've learned over the last year,
01:02:41
◼
►
working on their own product in the hope
01:02:43
◼
►
that they can inspire others to embrace and expand
01:02:45
◼
►
on the same honest approach.
01:02:48
◼
►
The guide discusses five key tenets.
01:02:50
◼
►
The values your organization stands behind
01:02:52
◼
►
should be well represented in your security program.
01:02:55
◼
►
A positive working relationship between the end user
01:02:58
◼
►
and security team is incredibly valuable
01:03:00
◼
►
and worth fostering.
01:03:02
◼
►
This relationship is built on a foundation of trust
01:03:05
◼
►
that is demonstrated through informed consent
01:03:09
◼
►
and transparency.
01:03:10
◼
►
The security team should anticipate and expect
01:03:13
◼
►
that end users use their company-owned devices
01:03:17
◼
►
for personal activities and design their detection
01:03:19
◼
►
capabilities with this in mind.
01:03:22
◼
►
End users are capable of making rational
01:03:25
◼
►
and informed decisions about security risks
01:03:27
◼
►
when educated and honestly motivated.
01:03:31
◼
►
You can read this guide completely for free at,
01:03:34
◼
►
and this is like my favorite little detail,
01:03:37
◼
►
the guide is called Honest Security.
01:03:39
◼
►
The guide is at the domain name honest.security.
01:03:43
◼
►
That's swear to God, that's the URL, honest.security
01:03:47
◼
►
for their honest security report.
01:03:50
◼
►
No forms, collect your email and there's nothing else
01:03:52
◼
►
to slow you down.
01:03:53
◼
►
It's not like, oh, give us your email
01:03:54
◼
►
and then you can read it.
01:03:56
◼
►
Just go to honest.security and read the guide for free.
01:04:01
◼
►
That's all they want me to tell you.
01:04:02
◼
►
So my thanks to Collide, AKA Collide,
01:04:06
◼
►
for sponsoring the show.
01:04:08
◼
►
Go to honest.security and read their guide.
01:04:10
◼
►
So here's where I'm going with this,
01:04:15
◼
►
with the spatial audio.
01:04:16
◼
►
To me, and this is why I love talking to you about it,
01:04:18
◼
►
'cause I think you know what I'm talking about.
01:04:20
◼
►
To me, it is Disney-esque in terms of its immersiveness.
01:04:27
◼
►
It is visceral when you're watching something
01:04:31
◼
►
that is hooked up with this.
01:04:33
◼
►
It is crazy.
01:04:34
◼
►
So Apple, you know, the reviewers guide
01:04:39
◼
►
some suggested scenes of movies
01:04:42
◼
►
that really show off spatial audio
01:04:44
◼
►
and it was sort of like their,
01:04:46
◼
►
look, in normal times, I probably would've gone to New York
01:04:49
◼
►
and I guess they maybe would've had you
01:04:51
◼
►
go down to Cupertino or something.
01:04:53
◼
►
But they probably would've had a product briefing
01:04:57
◼
►
in New York and had one set up for the press to go over
01:05:02
◼
►
and now here, try this and we'll show you.
01:05:05
◼
►
Although I guess they probably would've just would've had
01:05:06
◼
►
an iPad set up in front of everybody
01:05:08
◼
►
'cause it doesn't work with Apple TV.
01:05:11
◼
►
But here are some of the scenes they might've shown us.
01:05:13
◼
►
And I looked at them, 'cause it's like, yeah,
01:05:16
◼
►
I wanna, you know, show me what spatial audio is awesome at.
01:05:20
◼
►
And one of them was a scene from Ford versus Ferrari,
01:05:23
◼
►
which I love, which is a great movie.
01:05:26
◼
►
Do you see that guy, what's his name?
01:05:27
◼
►
James Mangold, he's gonna direct the--
01:05:29
◼
►
- Yeah, James Mangold's directing the new indie.
01:05:31
◼
►
- The new indie. - I'm stoked.
01:05:33
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, hopefully.
01:05:34
◼
►
- Yeah, I think he has the right sensibility to it.
01:05:36
◼
►
It's like, you know, Ford versus Ferrari,
01:05:38
◼
►
while not the world's most amazing cinema ever,
01:05:41
◼
►
had really exciting photography,
01:05:44
◼
►
really, you know, really like deft hand
01:05:47
◼
►
as far as the character beats.
01:05:49
◼
►
And in a movie like that, that's like,
01:05:50
◼
►
has that kind of arc where you know
01:05:52
◼
►
where it's headed in general
01:05:53
◼
►
and you know it's a known story,
01:05:55
◼
►
it had the right moments of like,
01:05:57
◼
►
you know, kind of joy and catharsis.
01:05:58
◼
►
I thought he did a really good job.
01:06:00
◼
►
He'll do good with an indie, I think.
01:06:01
◼
►
- I thought it was kind of crazy serendipity
01:06:03
◼
►
that this, did the news break?
01:06:05
◼
►
I saw the news that he's gonna helm indie five yesterday.
01:06:10
◼
►
'Cause I know Disney had this big announcement
01:06:11
◼
►
where they announced all their stuff for the next year.
01:06:14
◼
►
I think if it didn't come out yesterday,
01:06:16
◼
►
it came out the day before.
01:06:18
◼
►
But I thought it was such serendipity,
01:06:20
◼
►
'cause a friend of the show, Todd Visserie,
01:06:25
◼
►
was tweeting recently,
01:06:26
◼
►
just some sound design clips from Raiders of the Lost Ark,
01:06:30
◼
►
which is like, seriously,
01:06:32
◼
►
maybe my favorite movie of all time.
01:06:34
◼
►
Always, always in the top five.
01:06:37
◼
►
And if you say, you know,
01:06:38
◼
►
"Give me the best movies you've ever seen."
01:06:41
◼
►
Raiders is always in my top five.
01:06:43
◼
►
And the sound is one of my favorite things about Raiders.
01:06:46
◼
►
Always has been, and it's always been confounding to me
01:06:50
◼
►
that more action movies don't just go back to Raiders.
01:06:53
◼
►
Like, one of the great things in Raiders is,
01:06:58
◼
►
okay, action movies, what happens in action movies
01:07:00
◼
►
that doesn't really happen in real life all the time?
01:07:02
◼
►
People are always firing guns, right?
01:07:05
◼
►
It's guns, boom, boom, boom.
01:07:07
◼
►
People are firing guns all the time.
01:07:08
◼
►
In real life, a gunshot is a hell of a thing, right?
01:07:12
◼
►
- Yeah, it's intense. - Anytime, right.
01:07:15
◼
►
Every time a gun goes off in Raiders of the Lost Ark,
01:07:17
◼
►
it is a hell of a thing.
01:07:19
◼
►
It is like, boom!
01:07:21
◼
►
It's one gunshot is a hell of a thing.
01:07:25
◼
►
And it sounds like it.
01:07:26
◼
►
It's like, turn that up loud.
01:07:28
◼
►
Ford versus Ferrari has that sort of,
01:07:31
◼
►
hey, if you take a $9 million race car in 1968
01:07:35
◼
►
or whatever the hell year this was,
01:07:37
◼
►
and just had a guy run it at top speed around a race course,
01:07:41
◼
►
that's gonna be, that's a hell of a machine
01:07:44
◼
►
to put up into the red.
01:07:46
◼
►
Like, if you put that race car in the red,
01:07:48
◼
►
that's a hell of a-- - It's overwhelming, right?
01:07:50
◼
►
It's overwhelming.
01:07:51
◼
►
And I've been in cars with,
01:07:53
◼
►
not one of those specifically,
01:07:55
◼
►
but I've been in cars at that level
01:07:57
◼
►
with somebody else driving
01:07:58
◼
►
who really knows how to hone it around.
01:08:00
◼
►
It's an overwhelming experience.
01:08:02
◼
►
Your body is just sort of, you know, it's intense.
01:08:06
◼
►
And that's why F1 drivers
01:08:08
◼
►
are some of the best athletes in the world,
01:08:09
◼
►
because you can't imagine the stresses that they go under.
01:08:14
◼
►
- Anyway, that was just a fun serendipity,
01:08:17
◼
►
because I thought it's what makes the sound design
01:08:19
◼
►
of Ford versus Ferrari such a great example
01:08:22
◼
►
is exactly the sort of thing that, in my opinion,
01:08:25
◼
►
the Indy franchise has gotten away from,
01:08:28
◼
►
and it's sort of devolved into standard action fare.
01:08:31
◼
►
And that, man, when you go back to Raiders,
01:08:34
◼
►
and just like, hey, like a whip crack, just boom.
01:08:37
◼
►
Just focus on this one thing
01:08:39
◼
►
instead of trying to pick one crayon out of the box.
01:08:44
◼
►
Don't use all 64 of them at once, right?
01:08:47
◼
►
- Right. (laughs)
01:08:50
◼
►
- Anyway, Ford versus Ferrari, wow.
01:08:52
◼
►
It was, the scene they suggested was the scene
01:08:55
◼
►
where the Matt Damon character, what's it, Shelby,
01:08:58
◼
►
takes the Ford grandson and (laughs)
01:09:02
◼
►
he like, not really tricks him, but like just,
01:09:05
◼
►
hey, take a seat in the car,
01:09:06
◼
►
let me take you around the track.
01:09:07
◼
►
And it's both the race car sound and the tire squealing
01:09:12
◼
►
and the bits of dialogue mixed in,
01:09:17
◼
►
where there's characters talking
01:09:19
◼
►
while there's this crazy noise.
01:09:20
◼
►
And it's not just that you can hear them loud as day,
01:09:24
◼
►
clear as a bell, but that there's direction to it.
01:09:28
◼
►
And if the character is like slightly off
01:09:30
◼
►
to the right center on screen,
01:09:33
◼
►
their voice is coming, like, and it, again,
01:09:37
◼
►
does not sound like it's coming from the iPad,
01:09:40
◼
►
arms reach away from you.
01:09:42
◼
►
It sounds like there's a man six feet off,
01:09:46
◼
►
a little bit to your right, talking to you.
01:09:49
◼
►
It is, and that visceral nature of it
01:09:53
◼
►
sounds like there's a person right there,
01:09:55
◼
►
and it sounds like you're in a tiny little race car
01:09:58
◼
►
where your knees are up by your chin
01:10:00
◼
►
with this crazy engine that could kill you,
01:10:04
◼
►
revving right in front of you.
01:10:07
◼
►
It all sounds so real, and it just is like the best
01:10:10
◼
►
of like a modern Disney attraction.
01:10:12
◼
►
Like, yeah, it feels like you're riding
01:10:15
◼
►
one of those crazy flying things in Avatar, you know?
01:10:20
◼
►
- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
01:10:23
◼
►
Yeah, it really does.
01:10:23
◼
►
And like the experience, I've said this,
01:10:27
◼
►
I just like said this on Twitter and other people are like,
01:10:28
◼
►
oh, yeah, yeah, this happened to me too.
01:10:31
◼
►
The experience of watching one of these movies
01:10:33
◼
►
with the, you know, even the AirPods Pro,
01:10:35
◼
►
but obviously even more intense with the Max,
01:10:38
◼
►
is that it feels like you don't have headphones on
01:10:41
◼
►
and that the sound is actually projecting out
01:10:43
◼
►
into the room itself from the device.
01:10:46
◼
►
And I think somebody took this to mean
01:10:47
◼
►
that I thought the iPad sounded great.
01:10:49
◼
►
That's not what I mean.
01:10:50
◼
►
It's just, I mean, it's better than, you know,
01:10:53
◼
►
iPads in the past if you're talking about like the iPad Pro,
01:10:55
◼
►
but it really has nothing to do with that.
01:10:57
◼
►
It's really that the sound feels like it's filling
01:11:00
◼
►
the room that you're in.
01:11:01
◼
►
And so like I had the experience of, you know,
01:11:04
◼
►
sitting in bed watching a movie on the iPad
01:11:08
◼
►
and the spatial audio turned on,
01:11:11
◼
►
and when I was watching it,
01:11:12
◼
►
I actually thought I was gonna wake my wife up
01:11:14
◼
►
'cause I thought that my headphones had disconnected.
01:11:17
◼
►
And that it was playing through the iPad speakers
01:11:19
◼
►
out into the room, right?
01:11:22
◼
►
And I took 'em off multiple times.
01:11:24
◼
►
Like I did it once, I'm like, oh no, I guess not.
01:11:27
◼
►
'Cause then it pauses and you're like,
01:11:28
◼
►
is it playing or not?
01:11:30
◼
►
And no, I guess not.
01:11:31
◼
►
And I put it back in, it starts playing.
01:11:33
◼
►
I'm like, oh yeah, that's definitely the head,
01:11:34
◼
►
and then a couple minutes later, I did it again.
01:11:35
◼
►
I didn't believe myself.
01:11:37
◼
►
It's actually kind of remarkable.
01:11:39
◼
►
And I think there's, people are getting
01:11:41
◼
►
a little bit hung up on the Atmos thing
01:11:43
◼
►
because they're like, oh, does this really sound
01:11:46
◼
►
like height level speakers plus 5.1,
01:11:49
◼
►
which is really what makes Atmos different?
01:11:50
◼
►
And it's like, no, you know, not really, right?
01:11:54
◼
►
Like Atmos is Atmos for a reason.
01:11:56
◼
►
And sure, if you have physical speakers
01:11:59
◼
►
filling a physical space and,
01:12:01
◼
►
and they're all calibrated correctly
01:12:03
◼
►
and you have the right room for it,
01:12:05
◼
►
and the screen is the right distance away
01:12:08
◼
►
and you're sitting in the optimal position
01:12:09
◼
►
to listen to this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
01:12:12
◼
►
Not, yeah, how many people are gonna have
01:12:15
◼
►
the experience of Atmos in their home?
01:12:18
◼
►
Very few, proportionately speaking.
01:12:21
◼
►
Like I have an Atmos system in my house
01:12:23
◼
►
because I'm fortunate enough to have the space
01:12:24
◼
►
that works for it and I know how to set it up,
01:12:26
◼
►
so I did it all myself, so it didn't cost me
01:12:28
◼
►
a arm and a leg to install it, right?
01:12:31
◼
►
- But most people don't.
01:12:33
◼
►
And I do believe that that is one interesting thing
01:12:36
◼
►
about this that yes, these are $550,
01:12:39
◼
►
but the AirPods Pro are not
01:12:41
◼
►
and they both do spatial audio
01:12:43
◼
►
and as they build out this platform,
01:12:45
◼
►
I do believe it is actually,
01:12:46
◼
►
and this is why I think this is driven
01:12:49
◼
►
from the executive level a lot
01:12:50
◼
►
because I believe that there are a lot of cinemaphiles
01:12:52
◼
►
in Apple and a lot of people who love high-end audio
01:12:55
◼
►
and all of this stuff, which is why we got HomePod
01:12:57
◼
►
and not, you know, Apple Alexa,
01:13:01
◼
►
is that they're democratizing quality of sound
01:13:05
◼
►
in a pretty aggressive way.
01:13:07
◼
►
So yes, you may not get 100% of Atmos,
01:13:10
◼
►
but you may get 60 to 70% of Atmos in a headphone
01:13:15
◼
►
that somebody could buy for $550
01:13:17
◼
►
instead of spending eight grand on an Atmos setup.
01:13:20
◼
►
- And it's definitely a different way
01:13:23
◼
►
to frame this conversation
01:13:25
◼
►
and I'm sure people will bitch at me about it,
01:13:26
◼
►
but I, as somebody who has gone through the trouble
01:13:30
◼
►
to do this and help people set these up over the years,
01:13:32
◼
►
I'm just telling you, it's actually a really impressive
01:13:35
◼
►
sound stage that they've built virtually
01:13:37
◼
►
and it will give a lot more people exposure
01:13:40
◼
►
to the kind of home theater type sound at home
01:13:44
◼
►
if they're using these devices.
01:13:46
◼
►
I just wish it worked with Apple TV
01:13:47
◼
►
the way it's supposed to, you know?
01:13:50
◼
►
- And I need to do some more testing.
01:13:52
◼
►
- It has to be coming to Apple TV.
01:13:53
◼
►
Whether it really does require some sort of hardware
01:13:56
◼
►
for locating the headphones versus where the TV is
01:14:01
◼
►
and we really have to wait for another Apple TV
01:14:04
◼
►
hardware update or if it could be done in software,
01:14:07
◼
►
I don't know, but I mean, it seems criminal to me
01:14:10
◼
►
that Apple TV is $200 and you're gonna have to buy
01:14:15
◼
►
another new one to get spatial audio,
01:14:19
◼
►
but if it does, it does.
01:14:20
◼
►
I mean, if it really does require hardware
01:14:23
◼
►
that's only currently in iPhones and iPads,
01:14:25
◼
►
then what are they gonna do?
01:14:26
◼
►
But it has to be coming 'cause it's so frickin' good
01:14:30
◼
►
and there really are, it's not just if you don't wanna spend
01:14:35
◼
►
for the speakers, but if you've got like a small apartment
01:14:37
◼
►
and a sleeping baby down the hall
01:14:39
◼
►
or your wife is sleeping on the couch
01:14:42
◼
►
or if you've got a TV in the bedroom
01:14:43
◼
►
and you wanna watch this movie on the TV in your bedroom
01:14:48
◼
►
and your spouse is sleeping next to you,
01:14:52
◼
►
headphones are the way to go,
01:14:54
◼
►
but with these, you don't have to sacrifice
01:14:56
◼
►
and I'm with you.
01:14:57
◼
►
It is like you get absorbed.
01:14:59
◼
►
It's like 15, 30 seconds, a minute in,
01:15:02
◼
►
and it's like I'm thinking like a reviewer
01:15:05
◼
►
and I'm trying to figure out how this works
01:15:07
◼
►
and I'm thinking about how this and where sources,
01:15:12
◼
►
and then all of a sudden I realize another two minutes
01:15:14
◼
►
have gone by and I'm just into the movie
01:15:17
◼
►
and it's like whoa, I cannot believe
01:15:18
◼
►
that this is in my headphones.
01:15:20
◼
►
It is so immersive.
01:15:22
◼
►
It is incredibly impressive
01:15:24
◼
►
and it is like multi, you know,
01:15:28
◼
►
multi $10 million Disney attraction immersiveness
01:15:32
◼
►
that you can get.
01:15:33
◼
►
Again, 550 is a lot for headphones,
01:15:35
◼
►
but $550 for this world-class immersion
01:15:38
◼
►
and you don't have to know any technical details.
01:15:40
◼
►
There's no EQs to turn up or down.
01:15:43
◼
►
It's just make it sound good, you know?
01:15:46
◼
►
It is so immersive.
01:15:48
◼
►
You've got a good sound system.
01:15:50
◼
►
I set up, I finally got around to hooking up two HomePods
01:15:54
◼
►
to my Apple TV in my living room.
01:15:58
◼
►
My audio situation is that we were having renovations done
01:16:03
◼
►
last year and we didn't know,
01:16:06
◼
►
but it turned out being like incredible.
01:16:08
◼
►
It was like, you know, Indiana,
01:16:10
◼
►
let's go back to Indiana Jones.
01:16:11
◼
►
You know, Indiana Jones slipping under the door
01:16:13
◼
►
and then goes back and grabs his whip
01:16:16
◼
►
before the door closes.
01:16:19
◼
►
That was our contractors finishing up before COVID shut down.
01:16:24
◼
►
It was just, they finished up in like the first week of March
01:16:26
◼
►
and it was like, huh, that worked out really well.
01:16:29
◼
►
So we got a new TV 'cause we redid the living room
01:16:34
◼
►
and it's, you know, I got the big 77-inch LG OLED thing
01:16:39
◼
►
and I didn't buy a sound system yet.
01:16:42
◼
►
And I was like, well, we'll just play,
01:16:45
◼
►
let's just play audio through the TV.
01:16:48
◼
►
And it's like, hey, the audio through the TV is not bad.
01:16:51
◼
►
And neither Amy nor Jonas really complain about it.
01:16:54
◼
►
I'm surprised Jonas doesn't,
01:16:56
◼
►
but it's for TV, sound coming out of the TV, it's not bad.
01:17:01
◼
►
And so I've just procrastinated all year long
01:17:04
◼
►
'cause it's 2020 and I haven't bought anything.
01:17:06
◼
►
So I didn't have to unhook anything to set up.
01:17:09
◼
►
I just had to move HomePods from other rooms in the house
01:17:12
◼
►
to put them in the living room.
01:17:14
◼
►
It sounds really good.
01:17:19
◼
►
Obviously it can't fake coming from behind you,
01:17:23
◼
►
but I'm not really into that.
01:17:24
◼
►
I don't really want speakers behind me.
01:17:27
◼
►
Like I'm fine with having all the audio coming
01:17:29
◼
►
from before me, but the HomePods as home stereo thing
01:17:34
◼
►
sounds way better than they have any right to sound
01:17:37
◼
►
in my opinion.
01:17:38
◼
►
And I love the idea and it scores me points with the wife
01:17:45
◼
►
that if I go this route,
01:17:47
◼
►
I don't have to have a separate woofer.
01:17:51
◼
►
I don't have to have a woofer,
01:17:53
◼
►
which is, I score some political points on that.
01:17:56
◼
►
It's really impressive.
01:17:57
◼
►
I just love what Apple's doing in this arena.
01:18:01
◼
►
I really do think it comes to exactly what you said,
01:18:05
◼
►
that there are people in the company who love movies,
01:18:08
◼
►
but really want to democratize it.
01:18:11
◼
►
And again, it is this weird,
01:18:14
◼
►
to me that's the explanation.
01:18:16
◼
►
Like why in the world are they selling $550 headphones?
01:18:19
◼
►
Why are they selling $300 smart speakers?
01:18:22
◼
►
Well, they're not $300 smart speakers.
01:18:25
◼
►
And why do they work better with a pair?
01:18:27
◼
►
So it's a $600 setup.
01:18:29
◼
►
And it's like, if you think of them as gadgets
01:18:32
◼
►
competing with Alexa stuff,
01:18:35
◼
►
yes, $600 is a lot.
01:18:37
◼
►
But if you think of it compared to what Bang & Olufsen
01:18:41
◼
►
wants to sell you, it's really not.
01:18:45
◼
►
If you come at it from the other side of the market,
01:18:49
◼
►
these are democratizing prices.
01:18:51
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's, look,
01:18:52
◼
►
at the bottom level of this, you go, money is real.
01:18:58
◼
►
$550 is a lot of money.
01:18:59
◼
►
So if you decide to buy these things,
01:19:01
◼
►
you need to be comfortable spending $550.
01:19:04
◼
►
If you're comfortable spending that,
01:19:05
◼
►
it's actually a really fascinating product
01:19:07
◼
►
with some distinct benefits for people
01:19:09
◼
►
that are tightly integrated with the iOS system,
01:19:11
◼
►
especially if you watch a lot on iPad.
01:19:13
◼
►
Like that's my summary.
01:19:15
◼
►
If you listen to a lot of music,
01:19:19
◼
►
like straight up music from Apple Music
01:19:22
◼
►
or stream from an iOS device, it'll be great there too.
01:19:25
◼
►
If you watch movies from iPad,
01:19:27
◼
►
I think you're gonna get a better experience.
01:19:29
◼
►
And theoretically, you're buying into a future platform
01:19:34
◼
►
that will work for home theater as well,
01:19:36
◼
►
like in terms of like watching it on an Apple TV.
01:19:39
◼
►
But if you just want a pair of headphones
01:19:41
◼
►
that work great for noise cancellation,
01:19:43
◼
►
fold up really well and travel really well,
01:19:45
◼
►
don't buy these.
01:19:46
◼
►
They're not for that.
01:19:47
◼
►
They won't work well for that.
01:19:49
◼
►
As it stands, there's no case
01:19:50
◼
►
that I'd really recommend traveling with them with.
01:19:53
◼
►
It's just not good for that, period.
01:19:57
◼
►
- Yeah, and my suggestion, if you want the Apple stuff,
01:20:01
◼
►
just seriously try AirPods Pro for that.
01:20:04
◼
►
'Cause I've flown, there wasn't a big window
01:20:07
◼
►
between AirPods Pro coming out last October
01:20:10
◼
►
and the March shutdown,
01:20:11
◼
►
but I had a couple of flights in there.
01:20:13
◼
►
And I stopped carrying the Bose,
01:20:16
◼
►
not because I'd given up on them,
01:20:18
◼
►
but just specifically so that,
01:20:20
◼
►
well, if I'm going to try AirPods Pro on the flight,
01:20:23
◼
►
I took at least one flight where I had them both
01:20:25
◼
►
so I could try them both side by side in the cabin.
01:20:28
◼
►
And it went well enough where like the next trip I took
01:20:32
◼
►
before everything shut down and I stopped taking trips,
01:20:34
◼
►
I just took AirPods Pro.
01:20:35
◼
►
They really worked pretty well for that
01:20:38
◼
►
where the noise cancellation is good enough
01:20:41
◼
►
to get out the cabin noise
01:20:42
◼
►
and you're just listening to music or movies
01:20:45
◼
►
and it sounds clear, but it's not like this.
01:20:47
◼
►
And like in my review, I touched on this where it's like,
01:20:50
◼
►
I don't know what to say because it's like the movies
01:20:53
◼
►
where this would make the biggest difference
01:20:54
◼
►
and be worthwhile are the sort of movies
01:20:58
◼
►
where I really want to watch on my TV at home.
01:21:00
◼
►
But if I am going to watch a movie on a plane,
01:21:04
◼
►
why not completely satiate one of my senses?
01:21:08
◼
►
Like there's nothing you can do on a plane
01:21:10
◼
►
to give yourself a 77 inch OLED,
01:21:13
◼
►
but you can give yourself a truly world class
01:21:16
◼
►
audio experience, why not?
01:21:18
◼
►
Like and I could totally see if I got into a good movie
01:21:21
◼
►
with these on, I feel like it would be like somebody
01:21:24
◼
►
like sitting in the middle seat next to me
01:21:27
◼
►
who wants to go to the bathroom
01:21:28
◼
►
and they're gonna tap me on the shoulder
01:21:29
◼
►
and I'm gonna be like shocked
01:21:30
◼
►
'cause I forgot I was over there.
01:21:32
◼
►
Like I really do.
01:21:33
◼
►
I think that even though you're watching
01:21:35
◼
►
on like an 11 inch iPad, I feel like the audio
01:21:38
◼
►
could immerse yourself enough that you could forget
01:21:40
◼
►
you're on an airplane.
01:21:41
◼
►
And if you travel enough, that's a huge win, right?
01:21:44
◼
►
- Yeah, you just have to dedicate yourself
01:21:46
◼
►
to traveling with these things in a way
01:21:47
◼
►
that you don't have to dedicate yourself
01:21:49
◼
►
to traveling with a pair of headphones
01:21:51
◼
►
that has more folding and articulation, right?
01:21:53
◼
►
So you gotta understand that trade off going in.
01:21:56
◼
►
Like I'm gonna create a dedicated space for these in my bag
01:22:00
◼
►
and those are gonna go in there.
01:22:02
◼
►
But when I get on that 11 hour flight to the UK
01:22:06
◼
►
and I watch three movies and sleep
01:22:08
◼
►
and then watch another movie and then have a little breakfast
01:22:11
◼
►
or whatever, I mean, hey, an 11 inch iPad
01:22:14
◼
►
or 13 inch iPad, two and a half feet from your face
01:22:16
◼
►
is the equivalent of an 80 inch screen, right?
01:22:19
◼
►
So that plus the headphones and yeah,
01:22:22
◼
►
you've got yourself a really nice portable
01:22:24
◼
►
home theater setup, which doesn't,
01:22:27
◼
►
it doesn't really exist in the way that it exists here
01:22:31
◼
►
with existing 5.1 capable headphones
01:22:34
◼
►
because it is not, there's no two way communication.
01:22:38
◼
►
And that is really, I think where we're talking about
01:22:40
◼
►
like the hardware stuff in the,
01:22:42
◼
►
that's not in the Apple TV, how are they gonna figure that
01:22:44
◼
►
or can they do it in software?
01:22:45
◼
►
'Cause the iPad knows where the headphones are
01:22:48
◼
►
and vice versa.
01:22:49
◼
►
There is a two way communication there
01:22:51
◼
►
and at least in orientation and a little bit in distance,
01:22:55
◼
►
right, 'cause it does a ranging check.
01:22:58
◼
►
And so it kind of knows where you are
01:23:00
◼
►
and that back and forth comms is what keeps it locked in
01:23:04
◼
►
and keeps it feeling like the soundstage is accurate
01:23:07
◼
►
so that when you as a physical person
01:23:09
◼
►
are moving around in the soundstage,
01:23:11
◼
►
either your head or turning or whatever,
01:23:13
◼
►
the sound stays in the proper position.
01:23:15
◼
►
'Cause what normally happens when you turn your head,
01:23:18
◼
►
when you're watching a screen is at the center
01:23:20
◼
►
of the soundstage travels with your face.
01:23:23
◼
►
And so you're looking to the left,
01:23:25
◼
►
but the sounds and the soundstage is to the left
01:23:27
◼
►
but the screen is to the right.
01:23:28
◼
►
And like that difference is huge.
01:23:31
◼
►
It's the same difference that you see in VR headsets
01:23:35
◼
►
with good tracking because the moment you lose tracking
01:23:38
◼
►
on that, your body's like, this ain't real
01:23:40
◼
►
and by the way, I'm sick because the physical world
01:23:45
◼
►
doesn't match my inner ear, right?
01:23:48
◼
►
And with a good tracking of your headset,
01:23:51
◼
►
it sells it immediately.
01:23:52
◼
►
It makes you feel immersed.
01:23:53
◼
►
It makes you feel like this is a real thing.
01:23:55
◼
►
Your body and your glands and your cerebellum
01:24:00
◼
►
are all working in conjunction to tell you,
01:24:04
◼
►
this thing is real, this is working, everything is cool.
01:24:07
◼
►
What you're seeing is real life.
01:24:09
◼
►
And that kind of two-way comms is what sets this apart
01:24:13
◼
►
from others 7.1 or 5.1 compatible headsets
01:24:17
◼
►
that do not have any communication with the device
01:24:20
◼
►
that they're watching it on.
01:24:21
◼
►
And that's the differentiation factor for now here.
01:24:25
◼
►
- Yeah, it reminds me of like an optical illusion.
01:24:30
◼
►
There's a lot of them, like there's the famous one.
01:24:32
◼
►
It's like, it looks like a chalice centered in the square
01:24:35
◼
►
but if you stare at it long enough,
01:24:36
◼
►
it suddenly looks like two faces in profile staring.
01:24:40
◼
►
- Or Pepper's ghost with the mirrors and glass.
01:24:43
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
01:24:45
◼
►
And it's like you put these on
01:24:48
◼
►
and you know you're doing spatial audio
01:24:49
◼
►
and you're moving your head a little bit left to right
01:24:52
◼
►
and you're like, oh yeah, yeah.
01:24:54
◼
►
And you're thinking about it.
01:24:56
◼
►
And no matter what you do, a minute in,
01:24:59
◼
►
you completely forget.
01:25:01
◼
►
And it's like instead of studying the chalice,
01:25:04
◼
►
it's like you're just immersed and it's uncanny.
01:25:08
◼
►
It really is, I cannot emphasize it enough,
01:25:10
◼
►
it is not a gimmick.
01:25:12
◼
►
It is a real thing that takes the headphone experience
01:25:16
◼
►
up to another level.
01:25:17
◼
►
And if you watch enough movies on an iPad,
01:25:20
◼
►
it is seriously worthwhile.
01:25:23
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Anyway, just a good segue into our third and final sponsor,
01:25:26
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01:28:20
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Before you go, I guess the other big thing,
01:28:25
◼
►
I don't know if, we got all caught up talking
01:28:27
◼
►
about headphones in the meantime,
01:28:29
◼
►
we haven't talked about the fact that Apple
01:28:31
◼
►
has completely moved the Macintosh platform
01:28:33
◼
►
to a new architecture.
01:28:35
◼
►
- You know, just the little things.
01:28:37
◼
►
Oh gosh, yeah, well they did a lot this year, to be honest.
01:28:44
◼
►
I mean, given the year it's been, it's pretty crazy.
01:28:48
◼
►
That's just a month old.
01:28:49
◼
►
Like isn't that wild?
01:28:50
◼
►
Like this is seriously like, from my interests,
01:28:55
◼
►
you know, as somebody who's, I'm interested in politics
01:28:58
◼
►
in normal years and if you're interested in politics,
01:29:01
◼
►
a presidential election in the US is always a big deal.
01:29:04
◼
►
Needless to say, this just felt like a big one.
01:29:08
◼
►
- A little bit.
01:29:08
◼
►
A little bit unusual.
01:29:10
◼
►
- My entire professional life has been built
01:29:14
◼
►
around the Macintosh computer.
01:29:17
◼
►
It's kind of a big month for the Macintosh.
01:29:21
◼
►
Like this has all been a month.
01:29:23
◼
►
It just seems crazy.
01:29:25
◼
►
Like that is one thing I'm at the point now
01:29:28
◼
►
with the M1 MacBook Pro where I'm so spoiled,
01:29:31
◼
►
where it now, I'm over the part where it feels amazing
01:29:35
◼
►
and it feels normal.
01:29:36
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's just everything else feels worse, right?
01:29:39
◼
►
Like that's the--
01:29:39
◼
►
- Everything else feels worse.
01:29:40
◼
►
- And you know what, just to speak to the onslaught part
01:29:45
◼
►
of it, you know, the M1 Mac, huge, huge change
01:29:49
◼
►
in architecture, really a generational,
01:29:52
◼
►
once in a generation change, step change in capability
01:29:56
◼
►
for PCs and by PCs, I mean personal computers, right?
01:30:01
◼
►
And that goes for PCs that run Windows
01:30:04
◼
►
or any other platform.
01:30:06
◼
►
These things are just better and you can tell
01:30:09
◼
►
that even now where they're like, oh, this beats
01:30:10
◼
►
a more powerful PC or even a more powerful Mac,
01:30:13
◼
►
or more powerful, I should say, this beats a hot top
01:30:17
◼
►
of the line previous one from ostensibly the high end
01:30:20
◼
►
of the line, right?
01:30:22
◼
►
Previous ones, and we know, everybody knows,
01:30:25
◼
►
and yes, there's been some talk about it,
01:30:27
◼
►
but really I don't think anybody's quite internalized it,
01:30:29
◼
►
that this is the entry level, like this is the beginning,
01:30:32
◼
►
this is just like, hey, what if I wanna buy a cheap laptop?
01:30:35
◼
►
Oh, just get this one, it's probably the best on the market,
01:30:37
◼
►
it's $1,000, right?
01:30:39
◼
►
Like that's, and it's already beating those.
01:30:41
◼
►
So like the exponential shift in what PCs are capable
01:30:45
◼
►
or what computers are capable of, what Macs are capable of,
01:30:48
◼
►
portable computers are capable of, and what they can do,
01:30:51
◼
►
how far you can push the performance
01:30:53
◼
►
while still maintaining a usable battery
01:30:55
◼
►
and a usable mobile platform, we're just beginning
01:30:58
◼
►
to see that, and I don't think that people
01:31:00
◼
►
have internalized it yet at all because A,
01:31:03
◼
►
the tools need to be rebuilt to take advantage of it,
01:31:05
◼
►
and then new tools, new companies, new architectures
01:31:08
◼
►
that are just being spun up now, we're gonna see them
01:31:12
◼
►
sort of appear over the next few years
01:31:15
◼
►
that take advantage of this kind of big change.
01:31:18
◼
►
Because you talk about the iPhone having had
01:31:21
◼
►
an enormous profound effect on the capability of software,
01:31:26
◼
►
I mean, entire billion dollar companies,
01:31:28
◼
►
Airbnb wouldn't exist without the iPhone,
01:31:31
◼
►
DoorDash wouldn't exist without the iPhone,
01:31:34
◼
►
I don't give a crap about Android or not,
01:31:36
◼
►
it's not really about that, I'm not talking down Android
01:31:38
◼
►
or anything, but frankly, the App Store and the iPhone
01:31:41
◼
►
provided the ability for these companies to get fuel
01:31:44
◼
►
and to get access to people with a disposable income
01:31:47
◼
►
that wanted to spend money on, say, food delivery
01:31:49
◼
►
or vacation homes or whatever, all of these businesses
01:31:53
◼
►
were fueled by the rise of the iPhone and the App Store,
01:31:56
◼
►
and that, in turn, many other applications and those
01:32:01
◼
►
were fueled by the fact that the platform remained performant
01:32:06
◼
►
through its entire lifespan.
01:32:09
◼
►
You know, when the iPhone came out, it was like,
01:32:10
◼
►
oh, this is cool, I can actually browse the web for real
01:32:12
◼
►
and it's kind of fast, and yeah, everybody complains
01:32:15
◼
►
about the speed of an iPhone, or complained about it
01:32:18
◼
►
for the first couple of years, but since then,
01:32:20
◼
►
nobody's said anything in practical terms,
01:32:23
◼
►
aside from people running benchmarks,
01:32:26
◼
►
about whether the iPhone is speedy or not.
01:32:28
◼
►
It is speedy, period, it is, and that's the error
01:32:31
◼
►
we're entering into with PCs, it's huge, it's a big change.
01:32:37
◼
►
- I loved this from your, I just, I wanna get the numbers
01:32:42
◼
►
right, so I dialed it up, but from your M1 MacBook Pro
01:32:46
◼
►
review, as a real world benchmark, you compiled
01:32:50
◼
►
the WebKit project, which is, again, that's not
01:32:53
◼
►
an artificial benchmark, now, is a typical person
01:32:56
◼
►
going to compile WebKit, no, of course not,
01:32:58
◼
►
but it is a real thing, real people do, it's a real project,
01:33:02
◼
►
and it's an interesting test, and the M1 MacBook Pro
01:33:05
◼
►
compiles the whole source of WebKit in about 21 minutes,
01:33:10
◼
►
and the 13-inch MacBook Pro Intel from this year
01:33:15
◼
►
was 46 minutes, 10 seconds, so over twice as long,
01:33:19
◼
►
but the biggest difference was if you do this on battery,
01:33:23
◼
►
the M1, in addition to being a little over twice as fast,
01:33:26
◼
►
has 91, start with a full charge, 91% battery life left.
01:33:33
◼
►
And that's the same, whether you're using the MacBook Pro
01:33:36
◼
►
or the MacBook Air, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro
01:33:39
◼
►
from this year has 24% battery left, like, that's crazy.
01:33:44
◼
►
- And then, you did-- - And it'll buy,
01:33:46
◼
►
it'll say baseball, I thought those numbers were wrong,
01:33:48
◼
►
I thought I was screwing something up big time,
01:33:51
◼
►
so I actually had three people run it for me
01:33:53
◼
►
on their own machines, and I had the same results.
01:33:56
◼
►
- I would totally think that, I would look at those results,
01:34:00
◼
►
and it's, you know, there's the sort of person
01:34:03
◼
►
who sees results like that, and then they go,
01:34:05
◼
►
you know, it's like those guys in the '80s from Utah
01:34:09
◼
►
who ran to the New York Times and said
01:34:11
◼
►
they invented desktop fusion.
01:34:14
◼
►
- Yes, you're like, uh, let's fact check.
01:34:19
◼
►
- There's the sort of person who sees results like that
01:34:22
◼
►
and is like, quick, publish, and then there's the sort
01:34:25
◼
►
of person who thinks, wait, I better triple check this.
01:34:30
◼
►
- Yes, well I always assume I'm the weakest link, so.
01:34:35
◼
►
- But even the state of the art 16-inch MacBook Pro,
01:34:39
◼
►
which is a lot bigger device, and you know,
01:34:42
◼
►
a lot more expensive, goes from 100% to 61%
01:34:47
◼
►
on one run through WebKit.
01:34:51
◼
►
Like, so the time makes a difference,
01:34:53
◼
►
twice as fast is impressive, and twice as fast on,
01:34:58
◼
►
we're still talking about the consumer end of the notebooks,
01:35:01
◼
►
not the pro end, but the battery life thing
01:35:04
◼
►
is game-changing, like, 'cause what if you need
01:35:08
◼
►
to make a change and recompile it?
01:35:11
◼
►
- Then you can do this multiple times,
01:35:13
◼
►
and there's all sorts of things that people do
01:35:16
◼
►
that, you know, exporting video is huge.
01:35:20
◼
►
They had lots of people export video,
01:35:22
◼
►
and it's, you know, it grinds your computer,
01:35:25
◼
►
and you know, all of a sudden you realize
01:35:27
◼
►
you've misspelled somebody's name in the credits,
01:35:29
◼
►
and you've gotta export it again, you know?
01:35:32
◼
►
We screwed up, you know, that one shot in this,
01:35:37
◼
►
we didn't color correct, you have to bang out
01:35:40
◼
►
the whole thing, you know, you can't just fix the one thing.
01:35:44
◼
►
So, you know, if you can do that multiple times,
01:35:47
◼
►
and you're in the field, you're in the airport,
01:35:49
◼
►
you're somewhere, and you're on battery,
01:35:52
◼
►
and you're doing, you're working on a plane,
01:35:53
◼
►
you can do this, it is, that's night and day,
01:35:57
◼
►
that's a totally different thing,
01:35:58
◼
►
and like you said, it's only the consumer end so far.
01:36:02
◼
►
- Which is crazy.
01:36:03
◼
►
So that leads me to, you know,
01:36:06
◼
►
Gurman had a report this week talking about like,
01:36:08
◼
►
"Hey, where are they going with the future M series chips
01:36:12
◼
►
"for the rest of the lineup?"
01:36:14
◼
►
And, you know, one of the big questions people have is,
01:36:17
◼
►
"What are their plans for GPUs in the pro models?"
01:36:22
◼
►
I've been thinking, I've been thinking even before
01:36:26
◼
►
we saw the first M1 max, I've been thinking ever since,
01:36:30
◼
►
even before they announced this stuff at WWDC,
01:36:32
◼
►
that they're gonna do it all themselves.
01:36:34
◼
►
That they're done depending on other people.
01:36:38
◼
►
- They're too big a company, it's too important.
01:36:40
◼
►
- Yeah, when you see how central the GPU is
01:36:43
◼
►
to the modern compute landscape, you know,
01:36:45
◼
►
everything from AI to, you know, even the GPU taking over UI
01:36:50
◼
►
for a lot of applications, you know, from the CPU,
01:36:53
◼
►
there's just very, it's actually funny because
01:36:56
◼
►
there's a lot, a grand percentage less CPU bound operations
01:37:01
◼
►
on a PC than there was 10 years ago.
01:37:03
◼
►
- Right, and combine that, so the centrality of GPU period,
01:37:10
◼
►
even if you're just using a stock Windows Intel system,
01:37:14
◼
►
the centrality of the GPU to modern computing
01:37:18
◼
►
is one reason that they would take it just as seriously
01:37:22
◼
►
and do it all themselves the way they do CPU.
01:37:24
◼
►
But then combine that, it's like a multiplier,
01:37:27
◼
►
it's not just like an asterisk or a footnote,
01:37:29
◼
►
it's a multiplier with the way that the M1 shows
01:37:33
◼
►
that putting them all on the same chip
01:37:36
◼
►
and having them designed to work together
01:37:39
◼
►
makes everything faster, right?
01:37:41
◼
►
Like, and so there's certain things that used to be
01:37:44
◼
►
like dirty words, like shared memory, right?
01:37:48
◼
►
Like, oh, shared memory, you know, that was a compromise
01:37:51
◼
►
'cause it just happened to be that the systems
01:37:53
◼
►
that use shared memory between a GPU and CPU
01:37:56
◼
►
were low-end GPU systems, like, you know,
01:37:59
◼
►
long battery life consumer laptops.
01:38:02
◼
►
Or, you know, the discrete GPU versus integrated GPU, right?
01:38:08
◼
►
It's a dirty word, integrated GPU,
01:38:12
◼
►
'cause it meant bad GPU, bad low power.
01:38:16
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, it became a dirty word very quickly.
01:38:18
◼
►
It's like, oh, that's the bare minimum
01:38:20
◼
►
to get this thing to run.
01:38:22
◼
►
- Right. - Yeah.
01:38:23
◼
►
- Right, and so you, you know, for the most part,
01:38:25
◼
►
like the words just describe how they work,
01:38:30
◼
►
but what people hear is, oh, discrete GPU means powerful GPU
01:38:35
◼
►
and integrated GPU means weak GPU.
01:38:41
◼
►
And that's just how things were,
01:38:45
◼
►
that's not how they have to be, right?
01:38:47
◼
►
And the shared memory on the M1 isn't a,
01:38:52
◼
►
well, okay, it's a consumer laptop.
01:38:54
◼
►
No, that's how this is so much faster,
01:38:56
◼
►
because anything that gets handed off,
01:38:59
◼
►
like, oh, you wanna do this transformation
01:39:01
◼
►
on this big photo, we'll let the GPU do it.
01:39:05
◼
►
You don't have to copy the memory over anymore.
01:39:08
◼
►
And every single time, and this doesn't matter how fast,
01:39:11
◼
►
you know, and the M1 has very fast memory bandwidth,
01:39:15
◼
►
but it doesn't matter how fast it is
01:39:16
◼
►
if you don't have to copy in the first place,
01:39:18
◼
►
you're saving, it's an infinite performance increase, right?
01:39:23
◼
►
'Cause you're not copying.
01:39:27
◼
►
- And I just feel like that is definitely going to happen
01:39:31
◼
►
with the Pro machines, and it's just, people are a little,
01:39:34
◼
►
I think that so many people don't realize
01:39:39
◼
►
how off on their own Apple is with this stuff, right?
01:39:42
◼
►
And so many of the questions when the M1 was about
01:39:47
◼
►
to come out, or when it just did come out
01:39:48
◼
►
from other members of the media,
01:39:50
◼
►
were framing it based on Windows ARM systems.
01:39:55
◼
►
Because, well, these chips are using ARM,
01:39:58
◼
►
and those chips use ARM, and they're very slow,
01:40:02
◼
►
and there's a lot of compromises, and it's like,
01:40:06
◼
►
just because they're both using the ARM instruction set
01:40:10
◼
►
doesn't mean they're any more comparable
01:40:12
◼
►
than the fact that like the,
01:40:15
◼
►
what was the name of the chip in the 12-inch MacBook?
01:40:17
◼
►
The Intel M--
01:40:21
◼
►
- Oh, yeah, I can't remember.
01:40:23
◼
►
Yeah, I can't remember what that thing was.
01:40:25
◼
►
- Well, whatever that little chip was, was x86,
01:40:29
◼
►
and the Xeon chips in the Mac Pro are x86,
01:40:33
◼
►
and the fact that they're both x86
01:40:35
◼
►
doesn't mean they have any shared performance characteristics
01:40:39
◼
►
in terms of power or speed,
01:40:42
◼
►
and the fact that Windows Surface laptops
01:40:47
◼
►
are based on ARM chips, and the M1 is based
01:40:51
◼
►
on the ARM architecture chips,
01:40:54
◼
►
doesn't mean they share any performance characteristics
01:40:57
◼
►
at all, and so beginning your framing of it that way
01:41:01
◼
►
is just the wrong way to look at it, in my opinion.
01:41:04
◼
►
And the fact that Apple hasn't shown us
01:41:08
◼
►
pro-GPU silicon from their own design
01:41:13
◼
►
doesn't mean they can't do it.
01:41:15
◼
►
I mean, it's exciting, and it's a big thing
01:41:18
◼
►
I'm looking forward to in 2021, is at some point,
01:41:21
◼
►
they're going to show it to us this year,
01:41:23
◼
►
but I believe they can do it.
01:41:26
◼
►
And that might be one of the reasons
01:41:29
◼
►
why they didn't make this transition a year or two earlier.
01:41:32
◼
►
Like, maybe CPU-wise, clearly they could've done it earlier.
01:41:37
◼
►
Maybe GPU-wise, to do it from the top
01:41:41
◼
►
of the Mac Pro lineup all the way to the consumer laptops,
01:41:44
◼
►
they needed more time, but I think it's coming.
01:41:46
◼
►
I think it's, and I think that this idea
01:41:49
◼
►
of calling them discrete GPUs and integrated GPUs,
01:41:52
◼
►
forget about it.
01:41:52
◼
►
- Mm-hmm, yeah.
01:41:54
◼
►
I don't think that there is an analog either
01:41:59
◼
►
to allow people to draw easy comparisons,
01:42:03
◼
►
and I think that's one of the problems,
01:42:05
◼
►
or one of the reasons that we're seeing,
01:42:07
◼
►
we initially saw so much mismatch,
01:42:09
◼
►
but in opinion versus performance,
01:42:12
◼
►
'cause there was certainly, I mean, I'm not,
01:42:15
◼
►
he sort of has a reputation as somebody
01:42:18
◼
►
who doesn't mind staking opinions,
01:42:19
◼
►
even if they're quite dramatically wrong,
01:42:22
◼
►
or I shouldn't say wrong, but even,
01:42:25
◼
►
he's like, "Hey, I'm willing to be the guy who says this,"
01:42:28
◼
►
but Linus from Linus Tech Tips,
01:42:30
◼
►
he generally goes out there and is like,
01:42:32
◼
►
"Hey, I'm gonna plant a flag while everybody knows
01:42:36
◼
►
"that I'm planting a flag that may very well be challenged,"
01:42:38
◼
►
or whatever, he's willing to sort of do that,
01:42:41
◼
►
but I generally find that I'm okay
01:42:44
◼
►
with the way that he goes about it.
01:42:46
◼
►
He's not being petulant, he's being opinionated, right?
01:42:48
◼
►
And there's a difference.
01:42:50
◼
►
And so he definitely came out and said,
01:42:52
◼
►
"Oh, M1, good luck, this is never gonna work
01:42:56
◼
►
"the way that they say it's gonna work.
01:42:57
◼
►
"They're saying it's desktop class and all of this stuff,
01:43:00
◼
►
"and it's just, here's the reasons that I believe
01:43:02
◼
►
"that that's marketing, essentially,
01:43:04
◼
►
"snow blowing versus something real."
01:43:07
◼
►
And then, to his credit, came back after the announcement
01:43:10
◼
►
and was like, "Uh, yeah, so here's all the reasons
01:43:12
◼
►
"I was wrong, and this is actually a pretty intensely
01:43:16
◼
►
"performant chip and very indicative that they could do
01:43:19
◼
►
"some really cool stuff in the future."
01:43:21
◼
►
And I do believe that that disconnect obviously comes
01:43:24
◼
►
largely from UMA, from the unified memory architecture,
01:43:29
◼
►
community transmitting so much performance gains
01:43:34
◼
►
to the CPU and that integration there.
01:43:38
◼
►
And I think the same conversation is gonna happen again
01:43:41
◼
►
when we come to GPUs, because NVIDIA and AMD
01:43:44
◼
►
certainly have a death grip on that industry
01:43:47
◼
►
and are battling it out, release after release
01:43:50
◼
►
for the most performant graphics chip on the market
01:43:52
◼
►
and all of this stuff.
01:43:54
◼
►
But they aren't systems manufacturers.
01:43:57
◼
►
They cannot tell the rest of the system
01:44:00
◼
►
how to act in a certain way.
01:44:02
◼
►
They're certainly more integrated than ever,
01:44:05
◼
►
'cause every Windows laptop maker and motherboard maker
01:44:08
◼
►
wants to make sure that they work great
01:44:09
◼
►
with the new NVIDIA graphics chip,
01:44:12
◼
►
because otherwise people won't buy them, right?
01:44:13
◼
►
It's like a big driver of sales for gaming
01:44:16
◼
►
and for specialized applications.
01:44:18
◼
►
But they don't make those systems.
01:44:21
◼
►
They can't build them from the ground up
01:44:24
◼
►
to work perfectly with them.
01:44:25
◼
►
And at the end of the day, they are still a peripheral.
01:44:30
◼
►
They are at the edge of the system or at one edge
01:44:33
◼
►
of the system talking to the system.
01:44:36
◼
►
Whereas the M1 is not a peripheral, it is the system.
01:44:40
◼
►
And the M1's graphics processing
01:44:42
◼
►
and M1's memory architecture is the system.
01:44:45
◼
►
And that huge kind of step change in the way
01:44:48
◼
►
that we think about systems integrations,
01:44:51
◼
►
I believe will forever change the way we process
01:44:55
◼
►
those words, integrated graphics, right?
01:44:57
◼
►
It may redeem the term forever in a way
01:45:00
◼
►
that we really haven't seen much happen much.
01:45:04
◼
►
Everybody's like, hey, external GPUs are the thing.
01:45:06
◼
►
So very interesting time ahead.
01:45:08
◼
►
- And part of this is a mindset difference
01:45:13
◼
►
that hasn't changed in 25, 30 years, right?
01:45:17
◼
►
I think back to the '90s, and I remember a very,
01:45:19
◼
►
I forget the guy, I forget his name,
01:45:21
◼
►
but I remember the argument.
01:45:22
◼
►
There was a guy in the Drexel dorms
01:45:26
◼
►
who was more of a PC enthusiast,
01:45:28
◼
►
and Drexel was very, famously was one of these
01:45:32
◼
►
Macintosh campuses where you had to have access
01:45:35
◼
►
to a Mac to do coursework.
01:45:38
◼
►
And he was nonplussed about it.
01:45:41
◼
►
Like, I think he brought his PC then,
01:45:44
◼
►
so he had like a PC and a Mac on his tiny little dorm desk.
01:45:48
◼
►
And I remember this argument with him about sound cards,
01:45:53
◼
►
and I was like, take a step back.
01:45:56
◼
►
Isn't this crazy?
01:45:57
◼
►
It's crazy that you need to buy a separate sound card
01:46:01
◼
►
and get sound drivers and make sure they're compatible
01:46:05
◼
►
and keep 'em up to date.
01:46:06
◼
►
You shouldn't be able to have a computer
01:46:10
◼
►
that doesn't make sound unless you,
01:46:12
◼
►
or the only sound that a PC that's out of sound card
01:46:16
◼
►
in the '90s can make was like a 16 kilohertz doorbell ring.
01:46:24
◼
►
- It was like a chiptone type thing
01:46:26
◼
►
unless you bought a sound card
01:46:27
◼
►
and you had to keep the drives.
01:46:29
◼
►
Like, this is crazy.
01:46:30
◼
►
It should all just work.
01:46:32
◼
►
Why shouldn't, why are you designing it?
01:46:34
◼
►
Right, and that's still, like, okay,
01:46:36
◼
►
sound cards aren't really a thing anymore,
01:46:38
◼
►
but graphic cards still are, right?
01:46:40
◼
►
It's still that mindset that if you become an enthusiast
01:46:44
◼
►
and you really care, you pick these components
01:46:48
◼
►
and put them together.
01:46:50
◼
►
And sure, Apple never really was into that.
01:46:53
◼
►
Like, you can't just put any,
01:46:55
◼
►
you can't put an Nvidia GPU in a Mac Pro, period, right?
01:47:00
◼
►
They did just, you know, it's not Windows.
01:47:04
◼
►
- And Apple's divorce with Nvidia four or five years ago
01:47:08
◼
►
is never gonna heal at this point.
01:47:11
◼
►
But it's still like Apple-- - Yeah, the window
01:47:14
◼
►
for that to heal and Nvidia to integrate deeply has passed.
01:47:18
◼
►
So now it's Apple going, nah, we're gonna do it.
01:47:22
◼
►
- But building their Macs on the Intel architecture
01:47:24
◼
►
meant that Apple had to do these component choices.
01:47:27
◼
►
Okay, we'll support these GPUs from AMD
01:47:31
◼
►
and we'll support the switching
01:47:33
◼
►
between the integrated Intel GPU and the AMD
01:47:36
◼
►
that we add to the 16-inch MacBook Pro.
01:47:39
◼
►
And we'll write the stuff in the OS
01:47:42
◼
►
to know when to get into that and go back to this.
01:47:47
◼
►
We'll do that, but it's like ultimately
01:47:49
◼
►
the experience should just be, no, just turn it on
01:47:52
◼
►
and it has good graphics, right?
01:47:55
◼
►
And I feel like that's the reckoning that Linus,
01:47:59
◼
►
Linus Tech, I don't know what his last name is,
01:48:01
◼
►
but I know what you're talking, he called it,
01:48:03
◼
►
he was calling it an iPad chips.
01:48:05
◼
►
And again, I get it, I get the perspective,
01:48:10
◼
►
but it's like, dude, you're not getting it.
01:48:13
◼
►
I think one way Apple sandbagged everybody too
01:48:15
◼
►
and I checked on this.
01:48:17
◼
►
I never signed up to get a dev kit
01:48:19
◼
►
'cause I didn't really have a reason for
01:48:22
◼
►
and I didn't think it would be worthwhile.
01:48:25
◼
►
And I asked around and people who I trusted Apple
01:48:29
◼
►
to give me an honest answer, no, don't get a dev kit
01:48:34
◼
►
just to sort of--
01:48:35
◼
►
- To see what the M1 era is gonna be like.
01:48:39
◼
►
- Right, I was told, no, it's not worth it.
01:48:43
◼
►
It's not indicative.
01:48:45
◼
►
It is really truly for compatibility.
01:48:48
◼
►
It is truly valuable for developers
01:48:51
◼
►
to test binary compatibility.
01:48:53
◼
►
It is not indicative at all.
01:48:55
◼
►
And we're not just saying that.
01:48:56
◼
►
- Yeah, it's not some sort of sneak preview
01:48:57
◼
►
that's gonna give you a good insight.
01:48:59
◼
►
- Right. - Yeah.
01:49:00
◼
►
- Right, and so I've talked to some friends who have,
01:49:03
◼
►
lots and lots of developers have them
01:49:05
◼
►
because they wanna be compatible.
01:49:06
◼
►
And I was like, hey, am I not,
01:49:09
◼
►
like nobody was raving about the performance
01:49:11
◼
►
of those dev kits.
01:49:12
◼
►
And they're like, yeah, the dev kits weren't great.
01:49:13
◼
►
They're not bad.
01:49:14
◼
►
It's not like you were running stuff in molasses.
01:49:17
◼
►
- Right. - And I think like--
01:49:18
◼
►
- But it was there just to see, hey, will it compile?
01:49:20
◼
►
Will it run?
01:49:21
◼
►
Will it get out the door?
01:49:22
◼
►
- But none of these amazing feats of computing performance
01:49:27
◼
►
were evident on the dev kit.
01:49:29
◼
►
It just wasn't there.
01:49:31
◼
►
But I kind of think that that framed people's perspectives
01:49:36
◼
►
that whatever the M chips were going to be,
01:49:39
◼
►
they were going to be like that, right?
01:49:42
◼
►
Like I feel like your Linus type people
01:49:46
◼
►
who were coming at it from a skeptical perspective
01:49:50
◼
►
saw what people were saying about the dev kits
01:49:53
◼
►
and thought that was indicative of what they would ship.
01:49:58
◼
►
And those wouldn't be bad, right?
01:50:02
◼
►
Like if they shipped a Mac mini--
01:50:04
◼
►
- Yeah, if the first generation--
01:50:05
◼
►
- That formed like a dev kit.
01:50:05
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
01:50:06
◼
►
The first generation was like, hey, as performance
01:50:09
◼
►
or slightly less performance than current models,
01:50:11
◼
►
I think they think it would have gotten a total pass.
01:50:15
◼
►
Like there's nobody was expecting anything more than that.
01:50:18
◼
►
- Right, it just wouldn't have gotten raves.
01:50:22
◼
►
It wouldn't be seen as a breakthrough.
01:50:24
◼
►
It was like, huh, you know, it ends up
01:50:27
◼
►
that the dev kit performs exactly like, you know,
01:50:31
◼
►
like a low end Intel Mac.
01:50:32
◼
►
It's, you know, roughly the same.
01:50:35
◼
►
- But I really felt like that sandbagged
01:50:37
◼
►
people's perspectives in terms of thinking
01:50:40
◼
►
that that was all they were capable of.
01:50:42
◼
►
And I kind of feel like it might be happening again
01:50:46
◼
►
where people are thinking, okay,
01:50:48
◼
►
this is the best Apple can do.
01:50:50
◼
►
And so these are, you know, this isn't great
01:50:54
◼
►
if you're a pro user.
01:50:56
◼
►
- I have some friends who have worked on this project
01:50:58
◼
►
over the years and, you know, I do feel that there are,
01:51:02
◼
►
the perception ahead of time, while, you know,
01:51:06
◼
►
it wasn't like I was getting some sort of grand view
01:51:09
◼
►
into what they were up to, just like, oh yeah, you know,
01:51:12
◼
►
working on this thing, it's pretty cool.
01:51:14
◼
►
But I think that there is a general vibe inside Apple
01:51:19
◼
►
that they were afraid to tip their hand to Intel.
01:51:23
◼
►
- I think so too.
01:51:24
◼
►
- And not in terms of, I mean,
01:51:25
◼
►
I'm talking about the time period
01:51:26
◼
►
even after they announced it, right?
01:51:29
◼
►
So like, I think that,
01:51:30
◼
►
I mean, before they announced it for sure,
01:51:32
◼
►
like they didn't want to tip their hand to Intel big time,
01:51:36
◼
►
you know, before they were ready,
01:51:38
◼
►
because then, you know, there are all kinds of problems
01:51:40
◼
►
with negotiation and like, you know,
01:51:41
◼
►
Intel probably gets pissed or gets irritated.
01:51:44
◼
►
I mean, Intel, if they're not stupid,
01:51:46
◼
►
they knew this was coming eventually, especially years out.
01:51:48
◼
►
If pundits are saying it on the internet,
01:51:50
◼
►
Intel who's in the business knows, right?
01:51:52
◼
►
But there certainly was, there's a difference between,
01:51:56
◼
►
hey, they may do it someday and they're going to do it
01:51:57
◼
►
next year and then ship it the year after or whatever,
01:51:59
◼
►
or ship it like six months later.
01:52:01
◼
►
And like that I think is a big difference.
01:52:04
◼
►
And they were afraid to tip their hand
01:52:06
◼
►
because they knew they had something special,
01:52:08
◼
►
but it had to be ready, you know?
01:52:10
◼
►
And they knew though that once they did tip their hand,
01:52:14
◼
►
it was all over, like the Intel relationship was done,
01:52:17
◼
►
you know, just absolutely done, done.
01:52:19
◼
►
And that they felt they had something special enough
01:52:22
◼
►
to the industry that it would change things massively
01:52:26
◼
►
forever in terms of what people expect
01:52:28
◼
►
from a performant chip and a performant portable machine,
01:52:32
◼
►
especially, and frankly, a performant machine of any sort,
01:52:34
◼
►
we'll see eventually, they knew that it would change things
01:52:37
◼
►
so much overnight that they didn't,
01:52:39
◼
►
they were afraid that it would get out too early.
01:52:41
◼
►
And I think there was a lot of,
01:52:43
◼
►
a lot of secrecy and worry about that
01:52:44
◼
►
because they knew Intel was in fact screwed, you know,
01:52:48
◼
►
from that perspective and unable to,
01:52:51
◼
►
at least very immediately compete in any real way, shape,
01:52:54
◼
►
or form with these kinds,
01:52:55
◼
►
the kind of performance that they were going to see.
01:52:56
◼
►
And they were very, very nervous about it getting out
01:52:59
◼
►
because they knew, because it was a big thing.
01:53:03
◼
►
- They were nervous about it, they stand back, you know.
01:53:05
◼
►
- Yeah, and I think that that also,
01:53:08
◼
►
I think slash actually no from talking to my friends,
01:53:12
◼
►
that that is a big part of the explanation
01:53:16
◼
►
of why the industrial design didn't change is secrecy,
01:53:20
◼
►
that for a long stretch, when the go button was hit,
01:53:25
◼
►
I mean, everybody knew,
01:53:27
◼
►
everybody knew this was coming eventually,
01:53:29
◼
►
but like when the, okay, we are actually off to the races
01:53:32
◼
►
and we're doing this for real
01:53:34
◼
►
and we're committing to it internally.
01:53:36
◼
►
It was typical for Apple,
01:53:38
◼
►
even though this is like a major architecture change
01:53:42
◼
►
to their oldest and longest standing platform
01:53:47
◼
►
and biggest platform by scope, very few people knew.
01:53:52
◼
►
And so how do you keep the fewest people knowing
01:53:55
◼
►
for the longest time?
01:53:56
◼
►
Well, you start making hardware for late 2020
01:54:00
◼
►
that looks exactly the same.
01:54:01
◼
►
- Exactly, right.
01:54:03
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
01:54:05
◼
►
Oh, by the way, we're gonna put this new motherboard in,
01:54:09
◼
►
don't worry about why, it's just, you know, it's cool.
01:54:11
◼
►
You know, just a little change, right?
01:54:13
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, you can keep the same fan, that's fine.
01:54:16
◼
►
Don't worry.
01:54:17
◼
►
- Exactly, yeah.
01:54:20
◼
►
- Yeah, but you know, little things like the webcam,
01:54:23
◼
►
you know, right, you know, lots of people dunking
01:54:25
◼
►
on the webcam didn't change as a camera device.
01:54:30
◼
►
It's just that the image processing chain changed completely
01:54:35
◼
►
and it improved dramatically, you know, it's still,
01:54:38
◼
►
you know, it is what it is photographically,
01:54:41
◼
►
but the picture quality is definitely bigger, better.
01:54:43
◼
►
But, and I think also too, in addition to the secrecy,
01:54:48
◼
►
there was definitely a sort of,
01:54:50
◼
►
look, this is such a big change.
01:54:52
◼
►
We know we can do it, but it's such a big change.
01:54:55
◼
►
Every variable we can remove from the equation
01:54:58
◼
►
is reducing the chance of something going wrong.
01:55:02
◼
►
- Yes, yes. - Right?
01:55:03
◼
►
And so look, we know that now that, you know,
01:55:06
◼
►
once they fixed the keyboard and went back
01:55:08
◼
►
to a new scissor switch mechanism,
01:55:11
◼
►
the hardware for these machines is fine.
01:55:14
◼
►
You can say it's not exciting
01:55:15
◼
►
because it's been mostly unchanged,
01:55:18
◼
►
except for a keyboard that looks the same
01:55:19
◼
►
and just works the way it probably
01:55:21
◼
►
should have worked all along.
01:55:22
◼
►
But removing variables while you're changing
01:55:27
◼
►
the single biggest variable, the architecture.
01:55:31
◼
►
- It's smart, yeah.
01:55:32
◼
►
It's the smart way to play.
01:55:33
◼
►
- Right, it's just, it's a scientific approach
01:55:36
◼
►
to doing it, right?
01:55:37
◼
►
Like just, you know, okay, we know this display,
01:55:40
◼
►
we know everything we need to know
01:55:41
◼
►
about the display characteristics.
01:55:43
◼
►
We know this hinge, right?
01:55:45
◼
►
This is a hinge for the display that we know
01:55:49
◼
►
is durable and pleasant, and let's, you know,
01:55:53
◼
►
let's not take the chance that we ship a new hinge
01:55:55
◼
►
and oh, in the real world--
01:55:56
◼
►
- The M1 Macs are great, but they snap in half.
01:55:58
◼
►
Oh man, you know?
01:56:00
◼
►
- Right, right.
01:56:01
◼
►
Or you know, all of a sudden, three months in it
01:56:04
◼
►
starts squeaking or something like that.
01:56:06
◼
►
You don't have to worry about it.
01:56:07
◼
►
- Yeah, then it becomes the squeak Mac pro or whatever,
01:56:09
◼
►
you know, so yeah.
01:56:11
◼
►
Gets meme-ified.
01:56:12
◼
►
- But anyway, I do think, I,
01:56:16
◼
►
so the only other question I know,
01:56:17
◼
►
and I mentioned it on Daring Fireball,
01:56:20
◼
►
and a few readers said, well, the other question
01:56:22
◼
►
in addition to whether Apple's gonna do their own GPUs
01:56:25
◼
►
is what are they gonna do about RAM on memory
01:56:28
◼
►
on high-level machines?
01:56:29
◼
►
Is it always going to be on the chip for all the machines?
01:56:36
◼
►
I think that the pro, I don't know about,
01:56:41
◼
►
I would guess that even on the pro 16-inch MacBooks,
01:56:46
◼
►
that they will still be on the chip,
01:56:47
◼
►
because they haven't offered user-upgradable RAM
01:56:50
◼
►
on even MacBook Pros for a long time, right?
01:56:54
◼
►
- So that's your way-- - Buy a configuration,
01:56:55
◼
►
and that's your configuration.
01:56:56
◼
►
- For the Mac Pro, I would guess, though,
01:57:01
◼
►
that it will still be modular,
01:57:02
◼
►
and that there's some different arc.
01:57:04
◼
►
It just doesn't make sense that you would say,
01:57:07
◼
►
if you're gonna build a machine
01:57:08
◼
►
that goes up to a terabyte of RAM,
01:57:11
◼
►
and the fact that they did a terabyte of RAM
01:57:13
◼
►
in the Intel Mac Pro, they're not gonna go back, right,
01:57:16
◼
►
and say, oh, well, all of a sudden,
01:57:18
◼
►
now that we're on Apple Silicon,
01:57:19
◼
►
the most you can put in a Mac Pro
01:57:21
◼
►
is 256 gigabytes or something.
01:57:24
◼
►
You don't make a machine capable of going up
01:57:26
◼
►
to a terabyte of RAM, and then say to somebody
01:57:29
◼
►
who configures it with 256 gigabytes,
01:57:33
◼
►
and they're obviously already spending a small fortune,
01:57:36
◼
►
oh, and if you ever decide you do need more,
01:57:38
◼
►
you've gotta buy a whole new machine.
01:57:39
◼
►
- Yeah. - Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
01:57:41
◼
►
- Yeah, it doesn't.
01:57:43
◼
►
I mean, there-- - I don't know how they do it.
01:57:45
◼
►
I don't know what the electrical engineering aspect of it,
01:57:47
◼
►
that they keep it as performant as having it on chip,
01:57:50
◼
►
but I would guess with memory on the desktops,
01:57:52
◼
►
it will still be modular in some way.
01:57:55
◼
►
Maybe there will be some on the chip and some off,
01:57:59
◼
►
but I would guess that that will still be modular.
01:58:01
◼
►
- Yeah, that'd be my bet if you were gonna ask me
01:58:04
◼
►
how, what would be the setup,
01:58:06
◼
►
is there will still be some sort of base memory
01:58:10
◼
►
that is integrated, you know,
01:58:12
◼
►
that's the part of that universal pool.
01:58:14
◼
►
And then additional memory for larger operations
01:58:18
◼
►
would be off chip, and therefore, you know,
01:58:20
◼
►
yes, would be less performant than integrated,
01:58:23
◼
►
but I think that, let's say you were able to offer a Mac Pro
01:58:27
◼
►
and you go, oh, you know,
01:58:28
◼
►
I'm gonna get the 32 gigabyte Mac Pro, right?
01:58:31
◼
►
Or the 64 gigabyte Mac Pro,
01:58:33
◼
►
and then it's got RAM slots on it
01:58:35
◼
►
that you can add up to terabyte or two terabytes more
01:58:38
◼
►
or whatever, but the 32 gigabytes
01:58:42
◼
►
is incredibly performant, right?
01:58:45
◼
►
And you maybe don't use that external memory
01:58:48
◼
►
for many operations at all,
01:58:50
◼
►
and it's only the operations that require
01:58:52
◼
►
storing enormous textures or enormous libraries in them
01:58:56
◼
►
that it actually taps into them at all.
01:58:58
◼
►
So the vast majority of your operations
01:59:02
◼
►
are much more performant,
01:59:03
◼
►
and then the small subset of those operations
01:59:06
◼
►
that require that larger memory pool
01:59:09
◼
►
are maybe slightly less performant,
01:59:11
◼
►
but still get the benefits of UMA on top of it,
01:59:14
◼
►
so they're better than the Mac Pro previous, right?
01:59:16
◼
►
Like that's my, if I had to articulate the scenario,
01:59:19
◼
►
that's the way I would look at it.
01:59:20
◼
►
- Right, right, like if you're doing
01:59:22
◼
►
some kind of data modeling
01:59:25
◼
►
or some kind of scientific computing
01:59:27
◼
►
where you've got this, you know,
01:59:30
◼
►
literally 200 gigabyte data model
01:59:35
◼
►
that you wanna put in memory,
01:59:36
◼
►
sure, that just goes off to that RAM,
01:59:40
◼
►
and you can keep it there,
01:59:42
◼
►
but, you know, I don't know,
01:59:43
◼
►
I just feel like if they're gonna go up to that high,
01:59:45
◼
►
they're not gonna,
01:59:47
◼
►
there would be too many SKUs, right?
01:59:49
◼
►
Like you're gonna buy what?
01:59:51
◼
►
64 gigabyte Mac Pro or 128 or 256.
01:59:55
◼
►
You're gonna get a 512, you're gonna get a 768?
01:59:57
◼
►
No, it's too many.
02:00:00
◼
►
- 768, man, I haven't heard that.
02:00:02
◼
►
I haven't heard that number in a long time.
02:00:04
◼
►
- I think that's the right number.
02:00:06
◼
►
- The good old days, yeah, no, I mean, yeah,
02:00:08
◼
►
it was the fractional RAM days.
02:00:10
◼
►
- You know you're a nerd
02:00:13
◼
►
when you think that's an even number.
02:00:14
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, exactly.
02:00:16
◼
►
You're like, ah, that number feels comfortable.
02:00:18
◼
►
You're like, why?
02:00:19
◼
►
Why would it feel comfortable?
02:00:22
◼
►
- Anyway, thank you so much.
02:00:27
◼
►
Have a good holiday season, Matthew.
02:00:28
◼
►
- Thank you, you too.
02:00:29
◼
►
- It's always good to talk to you.
02:00:30
◼
►
- Yeah, absolutely.
02:00:31
◼
►
- Anything else?
02:00:33
◼
►
Everybody can read your fine work
02:00:35
◼
►
and the work of your fine staff at TechCrunch.
02:00:37
◼
►
You guys are still kicking ass over there.
02:00:39
◼
►
- Thank you kindly.
02:00:40
◼
►
Making an attempt.
02:00:41
◼
►
- And then on the Twitter, you're @panzer, P-A-N-Z-E-R.
02:00:47
◼
►
Which endlessly frustrates my ability to communicate with you.
02:00:52
◼
►
I start typing this shortcut, P-A-N-Z-E,
02:00:54
◼
►
and it's like, no, that's not right.
02:00:55
◼
►
It's good anyway.
02:00:56
◼
►
And thanks to our sponsors.
02:01:00
◼
►
We had Away, where you can buy a suitcase.
02:01:02
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►
We had Collide, where they want you to read
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their honest security report at honest.security.
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And Mack Weldon, where you can go
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and buy amazing menswear, underwear,
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jet hoodies, slippers, anything you want.
02:01:17
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My thanks to them.
02:01:18
◼
►
All right, adios Matthew.
02:01:20
◼
►
- Thank you very much sir, appreciate it.