The Incomparable

282: Head Clara


00:00:01   [Music] [TS]

00:00:06   the in comfortable number 282 january to [TS]

00:00:12   answer 16 [TS]

00:00:15   hello everybody welcome back to the [TS]

00:00:17   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason smell [TS]

00:00:18   i am joined by fine panel of people this [TS]

00:00:20   week we're going to talk about the [TS]

00:00:22   recently-concluded series 9 of Doctor [TS]

00:00:25   Who from the BBC you know I definitely [TS]

00:00:27   one of my favorites and so we talk about [TS]

00:00:30   a lot we don't do the flash cast on this [TS]

00:00:32   podcast feed me more because we do them [TS]

00:00:34   over at the TV podcast feed part of the [TS]

00:00:36   great and comfortable network that posts [TS]

00:00:38   like 2 pi guess today so many podcast [TS]

00:00:41   you can listen to the mall but anyway if [TS]

00:00:43   you like if you like our episode by [TS]

00:00:45   episode you can check that out but we [TS]

00:00:47   like to check in at the end of a doctor [TS]

00:00:48   who season and do an episode on the [TS]

00:00:49   incomparable about the season as a whole [TS]

00:00:51   and I've got a great panel to join me to [TS]

00:00:54   talk about that Glenn fleischmann you [TS]

00:00:56   you know you may remember him from the [TS]

00:00:59   four episodes he was on last year but [TS]

00:01:00   he's been in both of the episode so far [TS]

00:01:02   this year he's here Michael and by my [TS]

00:01:05   math that means I'll be a hundred so the [TS]

00:01:06   episodes 4 2016 you're on pace for 52 [TS]

00:01:09   episodes this year so keep it up [TS]

00:01:11   also on pace for 52 episodes this year [TS]

00:01:14   is David Laura hello hello stranger [TS]

00:01:17   you're a day and more and already well [TS]

00:01:19   not hard now [TS]

00:01:21   ok just a little competitive the trash [TS]

00:01:24   talk now and and trying to repeat erase [TS]

00:01:27   her raise her standing back to what it [TS]

00:01:29   was in 2014 Eric and also 242 hello [TS]

00:01:32   hello [TS]

00:01:33   yeah and i need to get my numbers back [TS]

00:01:34   up last year was embarrassing [TS]

00:01:36   I'm happy to have you here to talk [TS]

00:01:38   doctor who this is one of those things [TS]

00:01:39   where I now have so many friends who are [TS]

00:01:41   Doctor Who podcasters as well which is [TS]

00:01:43   great also hear our control group he's [TS]

00:01:45   never seen Doctor Who before wait a [TS]

00:01:47   second that's Babylon 5 it is serious [TS]

00:01:49   advancing from Radio Free Skaro hello hi [TS]

00:01:52   there I was actually hoping to get some [TS]

00:01:53   words in about Star Wars if you've got a [TS]

00:01:55   podcast series 9 starts with a two-part [TS]

00:02:00   up as a lot of two part or paired [TS]

00:02:02   episodes this season the Steven Moffat [TS]

00:02:05   written magician's apprentice and [TS]

00:02:07   witch's familiar in which the doctor [TS]

00:02:09   meets Davros as a child as a as an old [TS]

00:02:14   shriveled monster man and uh and missy [TS]

00:02:18   is there and there's a lot of the Clara [TS]

00:02:21   Missy interaction on earth where the [TS]

00:02:23   doctor isn't and then also on Skaro [TS]

00:02:26   where they are with [TS]

00:02:27   they end up so this this was our kickoff [TS]

00:02:30   and and i'm interested what everybody [TS]

00:02:33   father this uh I you know I as with all [TS]

00:02:38   these I did the episodes on the on the [TS]

00:02:39   TV podcast about them but it's different [TS]

00:02:42   to think about it sort of after awhile [TS]

00:02:44   vs after literally haven't seen it an [TS]

00:02:46   hour before the thing that strikes me [TS]

00:02:49   knowing the whole season artist i'm [TS]

00:02:50   surprised that this is the only time we [TS]

00:02:52   saw Missy this season but it this is not [TS]

00:02:54   kicking off other than the mention of [TS]

00:02:56   the confession dial the opening to [TS]

00:02:58   partner is not about the series wide [TS]

00:03:01   story arc it you know dhafra Davros [TS]

00:03:04   doesn't come back the Daleks don't [TS]

00:03:05   really come back Missy doesn't come back [TS]

00:03:07   it's just a two-parter about Davros and [TS]

00:03:11   the Daleks and missy and the doctor alka [TS]

00:03:13   and and Clara all kind of turned up [TS]

00:03:15   together which is kind of nice i kinda [TS]

00:03:18   anarkali and but of course it didn't it [TS]

00:03:20   didn't stop nerds from you know [TS]

00:03:23   extrapolating everything from that [TS]

00:03:24   opening to party because they've come to [TS]

00:03:26   expect it over the years to say whatever [TS]

00:03:28   is laid down in episode one is gonna [TS]

00:03:30   come back and episode 12 [TS]

00:03:32   there was even a I think when dealing [TS]

00:03:35   with Clarence because you know Claire [TS]

00:03:36   was leaving at the end of the series [TS]

00:03:37   everybody knew that and I think a whole [TS]

00:03:39   bunch of people were sort of thinking oh [TS]

00:03:41   perhaps or something to do with the [TS]

00:03:42   Dalek in this story and perhaps she's [TS]

00:03:45   actually dead in the Dalek and we'll [TS]

00:03:47   find out at the end of the series that [TS]

00:03:49   he's actually been dead the whole series [TS]

00:03:50   and but don't nothing nothing that can [TS]

00:03:53   pass he says to her I'm sorry I'm so [TS]

00:03:54   sorry and I was like oh that's a little [TS]

00:03:56   foreshadowing and then there's no payoff [TS]

00:03:58   I love the clear for the callback know [TS]

00:04:00   about when we've seen Jenna Coleman [TS]

00:04:01   inside the Dalek before right that was [TS]

00:04:04   that was that was kind of nice [TS]

00:04:05   interesting use of divers here I think [TS]

00:04:06   Julian bleach did a really good job is [TS]

00:04:08   Davros i'm not entirely sure i buy the [TS]

00:04:10   whole haha but I've double-crossed you [TS]

00:04:14   haha but I've double-crossed you kind of [TS]

00:04:17   thing that happens in the end but there [TS]

00:04:18   are a lot of really great kind of [TS]

00:04:20   johnston moments between them there are [TS]

00:04:22   interesting and the parallel between [TS]

00:04:23   those two and then and then missy kind [TS]

00:04:26   of using Clara as her anti companion i [TS]

00:04:29   thought that was all kind of very very [TS]

00:04:31   clever even while the plot was kinda [TS]

00:04:33   creaking along [TS]

00:04:34   yeah i like i like to very much the I I [TS]

00:04:36   was ok with the diverse you know you [TS]

00:04:38   know that the chess game the one up each [TS]

00:04:39   other even at the end [TS]

00:04:41   because it seems sort of fitting for [TS]

00:04:42   their given what they have gone through [TS]

00:04:44   those two characters over the last many [TS]

00:04:46   many years and and as far as if i was [TS]

00:04:50   glad that this didn't come back that we [TS]

00:04:52   didn't get more Daleks and moored [TS]

00:04:54   avarice at the end made that already [TS]

00:04:56   didn't ya and Lynn Lynn on Verity she [TS]

00:05:00   has like that which he refers to as like [TS]

00:05:01   the Steven Moffat rule any season that's [TS]

00:05:04   written by steven moffat she just she [TS]

00:05:06   refuses to really judge as a season [TS]

00:05:08   until it's completely done and she comes [TS]

00:05:10   back she's always withholding judgment [TS]

00:05:11   because he's always going to do [TS]

00:05:13   something that you don't expect probably [TS]

00:05:15   and and i think i love the fact that [TS]

00:05:18   this episode like Stephen said got all [TS]

00:05:20   the nerds you know getting their [TS]

00:05:21   conspiracy theories already it was none [TS]

00:05:24   of that probably the only little Davros [TS]

00:05:26   thing that that bugs me a little bit was [TS]

00:05:28   the idea that he's just been keeping his [TS]

00:05:30   real eyes closed [TS]

00:05:31   this whole time yeah I thought he didn't [TS]

00:05:34   have any eyes I just I don't know that [TS]

00:05:36   was that was maybe a little a little [TS]

00:05:38   step too far that he was able to open [TS]

00:05:39   his eyes and they looked so healthy and [TS]

00:05:41   young in that i did--like that he double [TS]

00:05:44   crossed himself too i think we talked [TS]

00:05:45   about it maybe maybe offline or online [TS]

00:05:47   rather not a podcast that that uh he is [TS]

00:05:50   saying one thing a high fool you but [TS]

00:05:52   really he had had a real emotional [TS]

00:05:54   moment with the doctor and there was you [TS]

00:05:56   know it was presented i think was active [TS]

00:05:58   beautifully i think the whole bit [TS]

00:06:00   was I was like something's going on here [TS]

00:06:01   but I thought maybe maybe we're getting [TS]

00:06:03   a different kind of insight maybe [TS]

00:06:05   somebody double-crosses Davros comes [TS]

00:06:07   from outside this scene or the Daleks [TS]

00:06:09   come in and in these like haha fooled [TS]

00:06:11   you into grabbing the cable but I'm like [TS]

00:06:13   now you revealed a little too much for [TS]

00:06:14   yourself i love those moments when they [TS]

00:06:16   transcend the script they transcend the [TS]

00:06:18   acting and they become that you know [TS]

00:06:20   mythology that that has a it's routine [TS]

00:06:23   is rooted in emotion but it's also like [TS]

00:06:25   that was a great like deeply but many [TS]

00:06:28   layers seen in the middle of a good [TS]

00:06:30   episode 2 [TS]

00:06:31   yeah I i like to think that Davros I [TS]

00:06:34   think you put said well some some more [TS]

00:06:36   he gave some more information out that [TS]

00:06:38   perhaps intended to and I i want to [TS]

00:06:40   think that I want to think that we've [TS]

00:06:41   gotten some insight and this wasn't all [TS]

00:06:43   just kind of a sham [TS]

00:06:44   that's part of his plot that we got a [TS]

00:06:47   little bit of insight into your [TS]

00:06:48   character i got just like showing him as [TS]

00:06:49   a child you know [TS]

00:06:50   Davros had to come from somewhere and be [TS]

00:06:53   somebody before he be [TS]

00:06:54   name a monster and so to see that is [TS]

00:06:56   interesting i loved and I'll enjoyed [TS]

00:06:59   listening to this we talk about it on [TS]

00:07:01   the opening TV podcast but we also [TS]

00:07:03   talked about it or I heard are people [TS]

00:07:05   talking about it on radio free Skaro and [TS]

00:07:06   on on very the idea that this call back [TS]

00:07:09   to genesis of the Daleks and the [TS]

00:07:11   audacity of Steven Moffat to name-check [TS]

00:07:15   and like reference in so many ways this [TS]

00:07:18   hallowed piece of doctor who classic [TS]

00:07:21   Doctor Who cannon that that's ground [TS]

00:07:23   that I mean you gotta you gotta you [TS]

00:07:25   gotta have guts to to to go there and he [TS]

00:07:29   went there and and that moment that I [TS]

00:07:31   saw the fog kind of blowing across the [TS]

00:07:33   battlefield I was like oh geez its [TS]

00:07:35   genesis of the Daleks and that's exactly [TS]

00:07:36   what it was so full credit to him for [TS]

00:07:39   having that the guts to do that well [TS]

00:07:41   select the political timing that we have [TS]

00:07:43   you know would you kill baby diverse and [TS]

00:07:45   then then it's could you kill baby [TS]

00:07:47   Hitler was what like days later this [TS]

00:07:49   translator please watch doctor who [TS]

00:07:51   wanted you'll get all the answers that [TS]

00:07:52   you need your passion to baby Hitler [TS]

00:07:55   yeah and I i mean i like that none of [TS]

00:07:58   the plot machinations really came back [TS]

00:08:01   later or any of the things except for [TS]

00:08:03   the confession dial but it it fits [TS]

00:08:06   automatically with things that are going [TS]

00:08:09   on through the rest of the season which [TS]

00:08:11   I really liked [TS]

00:08:12   yeah i love the sheen stealing bits by [TS]

00:08:15   missy because she's so wonderful i just [TS]

00:08:18   michelle gomez fantastic but that the [TS]

00:08:20   i'm thinking of making this is just [TS]

00:08:22   nonchalantly has jenna strong as a Clara [TS]

00:08:25   strung up and then when she says [TS]

00:08:27   something really clever like I maybe [TS]

00:08:29   you're not sandwiches just for absolute [TS]

00:08:32   immorality and like it's just it's so [TS]

00:08:34   rare as a character that that [TS]

00:08:35   unmotivated buy anything particular [TS]

00:08:38   except the desire to cause chaos active [TS]

00:08:40   their own well it's great [TS]

00:08:42   yeah she refers to Clara to as you know [TS]

00:08:43   the puppy in the relationship which is [TS]

00:08:45   which is actually something i think i [TS]

00:08:47   have done before on podcast just talking [TS]

00:08:50   about the doctor and how he looks at [TS]

00:08:52   humans whether he wants to admit it or [TS]

00:08:53   not that you know that he doesn't see [TS]

00:08:55   humans is quite on the same level of him [TS]

00:08:57   much as he tries and Missy just of [TS]

00:09:00   course is the kind of person who will [TS]

00:09:01   flat out state that [TS]

00:09:02   right although i'm not i'm never [TS]

00:09:04   convinced whether that's species humans [TS]

00:09:06   that way or he sees everybody that way [TS]

00:09:07   it's right breaking his own kind is that [TS]

00:09:09   way too i met so as much I agree I i [TS]

00:09:12   like the idea that we don't have this [TS]

00:09:14   big story in the beginning that comes [TS]

00:09:15   around in the end I think that was good [TS]

00:09:17   i didn't need to see that climactic [TS]

00:09:19   Davros Daleks whatever at the end of the [TS]

00:09:21   season [TS]

00:09:22   that said i am actually a little bit [TS]

00:09:24   disappointed that we didn't get more [TS]

00:09:25   michelle gomez because just great and [TS]

00:09:27   she's really great but they're clearly [TS]

00:09:29   paving the way for future episodes [TS]

00:09:31   especially know that you just her making [TS]

00:09:34   a deal with the Daleks and we never see [TS]

00:09:36   actually what happens what the terms are [TS]

00:09:38   and how they'll come back in the next [TS]

00:09:39   year and you know what's gonna happen [TS]

00:09:40   next series here in series after that [TS]

00:09:42   sure and I mean she did get two episodes [TS]

00:09:45   that's true but she's so great I mean I [TS]

00:09:47   I i I'm not sure I felt give me more [TS]

00:09:50   missy right away at the end of series 8 [TS]

00:09:53   but but at the end of this two-part I [TS]

00:09:55   was like I don't really want to wait a [TS]

00:09:58   whole series to get more of michelle [TS]

00:10:01   gomez as Missy because she was a she was [TS]

00:10:03   a lot of fun just that dear my dearest [TS]

00:10:05   enemy business it's like how much she [TS]

00:10:07   loves the doctor [TS]

00:10:08   yeah you know I think that was good with [TS]

00:10:10   the with the Saxon master also on black [TS]

00:10:14   actor's name the wonderful Johnson [TS]

00:10:15   Thank You Johnson was wonderful and just [TS]

00:10:18   you know chudai mean live with a screen [TS]

00:10:19   was bleeding when he was done it was [TS]

00:10:21   just so shoot up but just you got that [TS]

00:10:23   sense that they were in it together with [TS]

00:10:25   the two of them they were boys together [TS]

00:10:26   they grown up together they have this [TS]

00:10:28   affection that was so terrible in their [TS]

00:10:32   difference in how they approach the [TS]

00:10:33   universe it would literally tear the [TS]

00:10:35   universe apart and i thought the Missy [TS]

00:10:36   what part was like a little slightly [TS]

00:10:38   more general version of that she's like [TS]

00:10:40   who would you know [TS]

00:10:41   well who else would he trust for [TS]

00:10:42   Christ's sake you know but also a little [TS]

00:10:44   imbalance a little stuff i don't want to [TS]

00:10:46   say stalkery but a little imbalanced [TS]

00:10:49   where the doctors has a little bit more [TS]

00:10:51   healthy connection to reality then then [TS]

00:10:53   the master does and so and but I i like [TS]

00:10:56   this because this is as with any James [TS]

00:10:57   Bond villain you know after a while it [TS]

00:11:01   did the conflict should be resolved and [TS]

00:11:04   the why is it not resolved and the [TS]

00:11:06   answer is you know in reality is because [TS]

00:11:08   we want to keep seeing them in conflict [TS]

00:11:10   but in the in the show I i think this is [TS]

00:11:12   a very clever way of doing it which is [TS]

00:11:14   that you [TS]

00:11:15   all of them the master Missy they don't [TS]

00:11:17   really want to kill the doctor they just [TS]

00:11:21   want the doctor's attention they want to [TS]

00:11:23   play with the doctor they want to be fun [TS]

00:11:26   traps are flirting you know and i think [TS]

00:11:28   that's an interesting take on it that is [TS]

00:11:30   yeah that's a little bit meta but it's [TS]

00:11:32   also I think fun to have that be the [TS]

00:11:35   relationship began because of that use [TS]

00:11:37   you do trust her I mean I you know when [TS]

00:11:39   it was missing car running around the [TS]

00:11:41   the basement of the Dalek City there and [TS]

00:11:44   and like you know mr. was sort of saying [TS]

00:11:46   we'll get the Dalek it's the perfect way [TS]

00:11:47   to sort of break in and it's just a way [TS]

00:11:50   of like tricking Claire to get into the [TS]

00:11:51   Daleks so she can become you know her [TS]

00:11:53   personal killing machine but we believed [TS]

00:11:55   it because we we knew that missy is sort [TS]

00:11:58   of working towards saving the doctor for [TS]

00:12:00   some strange reason is because of [TS]

00:12:01   michelle gomez that that it's such a [TS]

00:12:03   believable performance and and I mean I [TS]

00:12:05   love her as an agent of chaos which [TS]

00:12:08   gonna have one then again and as a [TS]

00:12:11   coyote trickster kind of character from [TS]

00:12:14   from mythology minutes she's and and I I [TS]

00:12:17   was not a fan last year I loved her in [TS]

00:12:19   this I was going to throw out the [TS]

00:12:21   Riddler to a little bit and where it's [TS]

00:12:23   like you know just the Riddler really [TS]

00:12:25   want to kill Batman a lot of times I [TS]

00:12:27   think the Riddler just likes oh he's [TS]

00:12:29   playing with my puzzles yay right now [TS]

00:12:31   because it's fun to play with Batman and [TS]

00:12:34   I get a little bit of that for Missy to [TS]

00:12:35   he's the only one who answers them [TS]

00:12:37   that's right that's right no one else [TS]

00:12:39   will solve my dazzles Robin might I like [TS]

00:12:42   a plausible equal to as opposed to the [TS]

00:12:44   Emperor Palpatine like he gets a lot of [TS]

00:12:46   paperwork out of that whole situation [TS]

00:12:48   when I can determine that much else and [TS]

00:12:50   missy is is the case delight and what [TS]

00:12:53   she's doing and master he's doing that [TS]

00:12:55   goes beyond that like destroying the [TS]

00:12:57   universe it's like no peace having a [TS]

00:12:58   good time she had a good time [TS]

00:13:00   alright let's move on and talk about the [TS]

00:13:03   toby White House two-part episode under [TS]

00:13:05   the lake and before the flood this is [TS]

00:13:07   the one you may remember with ghosts on [TS]

00:13:10   Lukey goes on under underwater base and [TS]

00:13:14   then one of the things that I thought [TS]

00:13:16   was a clever structural thing is that [TS]

00:13:18   you essentially get part two before you [TS]

00:13:20   get part one where there in this flooded [TS]

00:13:23   old area and then part 2 goes back in [TS]

00:13:26   time to see how it got flooded [TS]

00:13:29   I think maybe less cleverly than I had [TS]

00:13:31   hoped it would get resolved but i still [TS]

00:13:33   think it's structurally kind of funny [TS]

00:13:34   yet to say what if we did a story where [TS]

00:13:37   you see part two and then you see part 1 [TS]

00:13:39   and then you see the resolution because [TS]

00:13:41   that's what the structure is here and [TS]

00:13:43   you so you get to kind of different [TS]

00:13:45   feeling episodes and it's a base under [TS]

00:13:48   siege and a bunch of kind of classic [TS]

00:13:50   Doctor Who stuff so what did everybody [TS]

00:13:51   think of this 1i I quite liked it i love [TS]

00:13:53   the the mood [TS]

00:13:55   i loved how quickly the the setting and [TS]

00:13:58   like the the setting up of the episode [TS]

00:14:00   happened because when I when I you know [TS]

00:14:02   it was revealed that there's gonna be a [TS]

00:14:03   two-parter the base underseas I just [TS]

00:14:06   would've expected a sort of a [TS]

00:14:07   languishing part1 just sort of setting [TS]

00:14:09   the mood and everything but we knew [TS]

00:14:11   exactly what was happening before the [TS]

00:14:12   opening credits rolled on that first [TS]

00:14:13   episode and so the rest is just sort of [TS]

00:14:16   left atmosphere and everything and I i [TS]

00:14:18   love dumb i love many things i love the [TS]

00:14:21   I love the the deaf person in charge i [TS]

00:14:24   actually started off as a sort of a [TS]

00:14:27   conceited the story but just she became [TS]

00:14:29   a strong character on her own right [TS]

00:14:31   I love the flashcards that the doctor [TS]

00:14:34   has in order to try and appear you know [TS]

00:14:36   human and sort of i have emotional [TS]

00:14:39   compassion for people i quite enjoyed [TS]

00:14:42   that and um and yeah it was it was it [TS]

00:14:46   was really well directed I'm i think my [TS]

00:14:48   favorite part was the very beginning of [TS]

00:14:50   the second part where you know at time [TS]

00:14:53   shows which is sort of try and disguise [TS]

00:14:55   info dumps as a as a two-handed [TS]

00:14:58   conversation this info dump is Peter [TS]

00:15:02   Capaldi talking directly to camera [TS]

00:15:04   talking about basically what the [TS]

00:15:06   solution of the episode will be going [TS]

00:15:08   with you know with with no protection [TS]

00:15:10   whatsoever i was just bold and fantastic [TS]

00:15:13   loved that although in those other call [TS]

00:15:15   for to the fact that he's talking to [TS]

00:15:17   Clara in his head in the end a [TS]

00:15:19   heaven-sent is I mean because that's the [TS]

00:15:23   same sort of scenario can be what could [TS]

00:15:25   be i mean i think it's that it's [TS]

00:15:26   presented that same light and I'm like [TS]

00:15:28   it's him being clever in his head he [TS]

00:15:30   already knows what he's saying but he's [TS]

00:15:32   saying it to ask the audience to his you [TS]

00:15:35   know companion is not present as he [TS]

00:15:36   speaks it right [TS]

00:15:37   I never made that connection before but [TS]

00:15:39   that that makes perfect sense at the [TS]

00:15:40   time because I [TS]

00:15:42   don't like it when characters break the [TS]

00:15:43   fourth wall so at the time I was trying [TS]

00:15:46   to fit that part together with the very [TS]

00:15:48   last scene when Clara is actually on the [TS]

00:15:50   TARDIS and I wanted it to stitch [TS]

00:15:53   together perfectly [TS]

00:15:54   so the doctor was actually explaining it [TS]

00:15:56   to Clara however I've watched the [TS]

00:15:58   episode i watched it like two three four [TS]

00:15:59   times or something like that now and the [TS]

00:16:02   the way that that the camera keeps [TS]

00:16:04   moving and the way that the doctor keep [TS]

00:16:06   speaking to the camera in different [TS]

00:16:08   angles it absolutely cannot yes you are [TS]

00:16:10   there talking to because he keeps [TS]

00:16:12   changing direction and she's nowhere to [TS]

00:16:14   be found except he asks her about [TS]

00:16:16   Beethoven so it's a callback whether she [TS]

00:16:19   understands and I guess exactly left to [TS]

00:16:20   the imagination but i like it because it [TS]

00:16:22   reminded me of of of uh listen which has [TS]

00:16:27   the same kind of structure where the [TS]

00:16:29   doctor is basically talking to the [TS]

00:16:30   camera or is he [TS]

00:16:32   but I don't know I kind of feel like [TS]

00:16:33   that if there's ever anybody who's going [TS]

00:16:35   to narrate his own internal monologue [TS]

00:16:37   allowed as he wanders around it's the [TS]

00:16:40   doctor and I just I love the bootstrap [TS]

00:16:43   paradox thing I I like how it's done [TS]

00:16:47   I like that he's got the guitar that he [TS]

00:16:48   plays Beethoven's fifth on that kicks [TS]

00:16:50   into the doctor who theme with the [TS]

00:16:52   guitar going in the background [TS]

00:16:55   yes yes like the guitar so much more [TS]

00:16:57   than I thought when they first [TS]

00:16:58   introduced with the guitar i thought [TS]

00:16:59   what a gimmick and I I really adored as [TS]

00:17:02   a unique and and your lively surprising [TS]

00:17:05   element was great who knew that then [TS]

00:17:07   Peter old the oldest actor to be cast as [TS]

00:17:10   the doctor in ages [TS]

00:17:11   Peter Capaldi would be at his best with [TS]

00:17:14   an electric guitar some sonic sunglasses [TS]

00:17:16   and hoodie who knew I like that i think [TS]

00:17:18   the bats the whole scene also ties up [TS]

00:17:21   with with heaven-sent yeah and that i [TS]

00:17:23   think it all sort of takes place in his [TS]

00:17:25   if you will Sherlockian mind Palace is [TS]

00:17:28   actually has talked to himself you know [TS]

00:17:30   that we are the again I mean Steven [TS]

00:17:34   Moffat leaves no stone unturned in and I [TS]

00:17:36   notice turn some people off but at least [TS]

00:17:38   no stone unturned in me kind of like [TS]

00:17:40   metatextual aspect of Doctor Who I when [TS]

00:17:43   I was obsessed with Doctor Who in high [TS]

00:17:44   school I read the the skull basically [TS]

00:17:48   scholarly work doctor who the unfolding [TS]

00:17:49   text which is a fascinating thing but it [TS]

00:17:51   was like it really opened my mind to the [TS]

00:17:53   idea of taking a silly TV show [TS]

00:17:56   really seriously and and what I love [TS]

00:17:57   that Steven Moffat is that he does that [TS]

00:17:59   he he says why don't we do an episode [TS]

00:18:01   about the questions we ask ourselves [TS]

00:18:04   about what why what why doctor who does [TS]

00:18:06   what it does and this is a great example [TS]

00:18:08   of that where it's like he's talking to [TS]

00:18:10   us we are his internal monologue we are [TS]

00:18:13   his audience [TS]

00:18:13   he says he literally says what am i [TS]

00:18:16   without an audience [TS]

00:18:18   this ain't right unless you can look so [TS]

00:18:20   Cara so I mean anyway you could say that [TS]

00:18:23   so that's winking and its fourth wall [TS]

00:18:25   breaking and all that but i don't know i [TS]

00:18:27   think it's more than that I think that [TS]

00:18:28   it's it's this character it's not [TS]

00:18:31   unreasonable to understand that this [TS]

00:18:33   character is performing for at least an [TS]

00:18:35   imagined audience if not a real [TS]

00:18:37   television audience and and and and [TS]

00:18:39   throughout the season we see that and [TS]

00:18:41   and Peter Capaldi does well it'sit's i [TS]

00:18:43   find it yeah it's a lot of fun and I [TS]

00:18:46   mean throughout he's done a really good [TS]

00:18:47   job as a showrunner dwelling on on what [TS]

00:18:51   is story was story mean what is myth you [TS]

00:18:54   know and and just sort of drawing all of [TS]

00:18:57   these different things that with with [TS]

00:18:58   each season with each different doctor [TS]

00:19:00   he's written for and and this was sort [TS]

00:19:02   of like the next step it's like okay now [TS]

00:19:05   we're just we're gonna talk it's not [TS]

00:19:06   just myth it's not just for retail I'm [TS]

00:19:09   talking to you as an audience right you [TS]

00:19:12   pointed out stories is so true you know [TS]

00:19:13   back in the fifth doctor with the fifth [TS]

00:19:15   doctor Cena we're all stories in the end [TS]

00:19:17   and here it's it's it's really playing [TS]

00:19:19   around with the fact that the doctor [TS]

00:19:21   literally is a story is just you know [TS]

00:19:23   giving up the pretense and now he's [TS]

00:19:24   talking directly to us on any with Amy [TS]

00:19:26   Pond the same that first the mat smith [TS]

00:19:29   season season 5 steven moffat first [TS]

00:19:31   season was all about fairy tales right [TS]

00:19:34   and and that the doctor was a fairytale [TS]

00:19:36   and here we have something sort of [TS]

00:19:37   similar to that i like it i I you know I [TS]

00:19:40   i enjoyed i think that is as modern as [TS]

00:19:42   doctor who gets and I i get people [TS]

00:19:44   saying that they wanted they they'd like [TS]

00:19:47   to see something different you know we [TS]

00:19:48   are in the Steven Moffat era now it is [TS]

00:19:50   closer to the end than just the [TS]

00:19:51   beginning and there will be a change in [TS]

00:19:55   in leadership that leads to a show [TS]

00:19:58   runner who does something different but [TS]

00:19:59   I think we'll look back on this and say [TS]

00:20:01   on this area and say why Steven Moffat [TS]

00:20:04   pushed a lot of boundaries and made some [TS]

00:20:08   bold decisions [TS]

00:20:09   22 question as a lifelong doctor who fan [TS]

00:20:12   to question how does the show work what [TS]

00:20:15   what you know [TS]

00:20:16   yeah what can we do that is not that is [TS]

00:20:18   outside the rules of the show or [TS]

00:20:20   comments on how the show works and and [TS]

00:20:24   to have a talented intelligent schreiter [TS]

00:20:27   and showrunner do that I think this is a [TS]

00:20:30   very special kind of error from the show [TS]

00:20:32   even though i would also probably agree [TS]

00:20:35   that if the show was only ever this it [TS]

00:20:37   would be too much but it's not only [TS]

00:20:39   after this it's doctor who it will be [TS]

00:20:40   something else again just as it was [TS]

00:20:42   something else before and and being [TS]

00:20:44   himself a lifelong fan too and saying [TS]

00:20:47   both you know how do we make it [TS]

00:20:48   interesting but also how do i tell [TS]

00:20:51   stories in this show that's been around [TS]

00:20:53   for 50 years that are different that [TS]

00:20:55   have never been told in this way yeah [TS]

00:20:57   exactly when he gets to settle the [TS]

00:20:58   cannon to there's things that he's [TS]

00:21:00   probably been thinking about for decades [TS]

00:21:01   he's like okay this is kannan now that [TS]

00:21:03   thing that I wanted to say it is and [TS]

00:21:05   that's great headcanon is now can [TS]

00:21:07   although very fun i think one of the [TS]

00:21:09   things and this is skipping ahead a [TS]

00:21:11   little bit and we will get back on the [TS]

00:21:12   MSO track here is where i found great [TS]

00:21:15   restraint in some ways with him a little [TS]

00:21:19   like Howard's in the force awakens there [TS]

00:21:21   are a lot of of details that are left to [TS]

00:21:25   the to the audience's imagination [TS]

00:21:28   I feel like Steven Moffat delights in in [TS]

00:21:32   the loose threads [TS]

00:21:33   yeah and while he likes to pick up [TS]

00:21:35   threads that he bothered him when he was [TS]

00:21:37   a fan [TS]

00:21:38   he also delights in leaving loose [TS]

00:21:42   threads behind for either his successors [TS]

00:21:45   or just for the fans to drive themselves [TS]

00:21:47   crazy about and and i love that because [TS]

00:21:50   it would be so easy to tie everything up [TS]

00:21:53   with a bow and I do appreciate the fact [TS]

00:21:56   that Steven Moffat does not want to do [TS]

00:21:57   that he wants to leave messy bits for [TS]

00:22:00   the audience to get frustrated about [TS]

00:22:02   I think he also wants to leave bits for [TS]

00:22:04   you know the the alternate materials to [TS]

00:22:06   fill in so books and Big Finish and I [TS]

00:22:09   mean he's he's he because he kind of [TS]

00:22:11   came from that world he is very first [TS]

00:22:13   doctor who think was actually a short [TS]

00:22:15   story I think he's cognizant of the fact [TS]

00:22:17   that there are other professionals out [TS]

00:22:19   there doing dr. great doctor who work in [TS]

00:22:21   other room [TS]

00:22:22   homes and now I think he likes the idea [TS]

00:22:24   that he has given them an extra little [TS]

00:22:26   bit of a playground let's let's move on [TS]

00:22:29   talk about the oh and one last thing [TS]

00:22:32   about episode 74 just tiny t-shirt is it [TS]

00:22:34   deals with story the fact i thought it [TS]

00:22:36   was a very clever idea i've seen it used [TS]

00:22:38   before in other contexts including Snow [TS]

00:22:40   Crash really been no Stephenson is uh [TS]

00:22:42   this idea of rewriting the brains [TS]

00:22:44   firmware and that idea that i'm just [TS]

00:22:47   looking at some characters on a wall and [TS]

00:22:49   only did we actually saw it it rewrote [TS]

00:22:51   their firmware so that they would have [TS]

00:22:52   this kind of weird electromagnetic echo [TS]

00:22:54   after they died I was like that was [TS]

00:22:57   ingenious and interesting it 3i didn't [TS]

00:23:00   love that episode pair that much i love [TS]

00:23:01   the look more than the the plot there's [TS]

00:23:04   some great bits in it but that got me [TS]

00:23:05   for something I was very a very clever [TS]

00:23:07   bit but that was not exploited too much [TS]

00:23:11   was just sort of in the air as an [TS]

00:23:13   interesting idea that your your brain is [TS]

00:23:15   hacked by just the act of seeing the [TS]

00:23:17   characters on the side of the wall [TS]

00:23:19   inside the thing is realistic a little [TS]

00:23:21   linguistic programming spooky let me [TS]

00:23:25   take a break to tell you about our [TS]

00:23:27   sponsor this episode of the [TS]

00:23:28   uncomfortable brought to you by the [TS]

00:23:30   zombies run virtual race now this is [TS]

00:23:34   such a great idea we all know running [TS]

00:23:36   helps get you fit a lot of people run [TS]

00:23:38   i've been running on and off for the [TS]

00:23:39   last year but it's also really boring [TS]

00:23:42   and you want to stick something in your [TS]

00:23:43   ear holes maybe you'll listen to [TS]

00:23:44   podcasts maybe listen to music this is a [TS]

00:23:47   virtual race that makes running fun [TS]

00:23:50   whenever you're out in the world you [TS]

00:23:52   head out to run five or 10 k with your [TS]

00:23:54   headphones in and the app immerses you [TS]

00:23:57   any thrilling audio story it's specially [TS]

00:23:59   designed to match the distance you're [TS]

00:24:00   running so while you're running you'll [TS]

00:24:01   hear zombies clothes on your heels [TS]

00:24:03   you'll need to pick up the pace you'll [TS]

00:24:05   hear fighter jets roaring overhead the [TS]

00:24:07   ticking of a bomb that only you can stop [TS]

00:24:09   yet to run to get there a lot of really [TS]

00:24:11   clever ideas an immersive story that [TS]

00:24:13   also enter interacts with you and you're [TS]

00:24:15   running and the zombies run virtual race [TS]

00:24:18   you're not just running around the track [TS]

00:24:20   you're running to save the world [TS]

00:24:22   you get a you when you enter the virtual [TS]

00:24:24   race you get the audio adventure series [TS]

00:24:26   that takes you from the start your [TS]

00:24:27   training all the way to the end of the [TS]

00:24:28   race you get a professional quality [TS]

00:24:31   technical running t finishers medal and [TS]

00:24:33   a bunch of other great gear [TS]

00:24:35   Plus $55 its way cheaper and more fun [TS]

00:24:37   than a gym membership the first zombies [TS]

00:24:41   run virtual race was held in October of [TS]

00:24:43   2015 was completely sold out that 25 [TS]

00:24:45   entries and a ninety-nine point nine [TS]

00:24:47   percent satisfaction rate so a virtual [TS]

00:24:50   race and a great story to focus the mind [TS]

00:24:53   while you're running there [TS]

00:24:55   here's what you need to go visit zombies [TS]

00:24:57   virtual race dot-com and if you use [TS]

00:24:59   coupon code and comfortable you'll get [TS]

00:25:01   five dollars off your entry that zombies [TS]

00:25:04   virtual race dot-com and thank you to [TS]

00:25:07   zombies run for sponsoring the [TS]

00:25:10   incomparable ok the girl who died the [TS]

00:25:12   woman who lived this is a paired set of [TS]

00:25:15   episodes as opposed to a two-parter [TS]

00:25:17   proper I think Jay Madison and Steven [TS]

00:25:20   Moffat with a girl who died Catherine [TS]

00:25:22   regret Organa wrote the woman who lived [TS]

00:25:24   we meet a shoulder she is a young uh [TS]

00:25:27   young woman in this village and in the [TS]

00:25:33   girl who died there are aliens who are [TS]

00:25:36   not me i don't know taking the [TS]

00:25:39   testosterone of the Warriors of the [TS]

00:25:41   village i guess and rent their Vikings [TS]

00:25:44   it certs is still in my calculator [TS]

00:25:47   precious bodily fluids let's put it that [TS]

00:25:49   way [TS]

00:25:49   yeah and so we get we get all of the in [TS]

00:25:52   that part 1 we get we get all of that [TS]

00:25:54   the doctor also uh or is reminded why he [TS]

00:25:58   chose his face which is an interesting [TS]

00:26:01   little bit you talk about Steven Moffat [TS]

00:26:02   kind of answering questions while [TS]

00:26:04   bringing up other questions and then in [TS]

00:26:06   the part 2 [TS]

00:26:08   it's it's uh I like more than a thousand [TS]

00:26:11   years later and shielder who is saved by [TS]

00:26:13   the doctor at the end of the first [TS]

00:26:14   episode and made sort of accidentally [TS]

00:26:16   immortal he runs into her again by [TS]

00:26:21   accident or r by plan and we discovered [TS]

00:26:23   that after a thousand years she sort of [TS]

00:26:25   can't remember things because she's got [TS]

00:26:26   a human-sized memory but but she but she [TS]

00:26:30   and she calls herself me because I guess [TS]

00:26:32   that's she's the only thing that matters [TS]

00:26:34   didn't even need a name and we learn [TS]

00:26:36   more about her in that so this is the [TS]

00:26:38   paired parent episodes that when i [TS]

00:26:40   watched them i thought we're not going [TS]

00:26:42   to lead to some more appearances by [TS]

00:26:44   maisie williams from Game of Thrones not [TS]

00:26:46   accurate she actually is in the last two [TS]

00:26:48   episodes [TS]

00:26:48   as it turns out and watching his back i [TS]

00:26:51   was i was a scanning through a bunch of [TS]

00:26:53   these episodes today before we did this [TS]

00:26:55   I am impressed by the fact that the [TS]

00:26:58   mystery of this season was made [TS]

00:27:01   perfectly clear at the end of episode 5 [TS]

00:27:04   where the doctor says I've made her a [TS]

00:27:08   and he gets this look on his face and he [TS]

00:27:11   says she's a hybrid and and from the [TS]

00:27:14   perspective of the end of the season you [TS]

00:27:16   realize that's the moment where he [TS]

00:27:17   realizes that he what he's just done is [TS]

00:27:20   created a legendary figure in [TS]

00:27:22   Gallifreyan history he realized he [TS]

00:27:24   totally gets it at that moment but [TS]

00:27:26   that's what he's done but I'm till [TS]

00:27:28   you've seen the whole season and gone [TS]

00:27:30   circle back around again you don't [TS]

00:27:32   realize that i never really so now think [TS]

00:27:34   about it so she actually the hybrid did [TS]

00:27:36   cause what was said but she what didn't [TS]

00:27:39   cause it to happen right it's like it's [TS]

00:27:41   like Crouching in the in the wreckage of [TS]

00:27:42   Gallifrey she's there at the end of the [TS]

00:27:44   yeah but she also sets in the sequence [TS]

00:27:46   of events because the kind words are [TS]

00:27:47   afraid of the hybrid it's that circular [TS]

00:27:49   I want to give Moffat credit for being [TS]

00:27:50   called back lever that she because he is [TS]

00:27:52   but I mean some of the stuff i know you [TS]

00:27:54   read into much of his head canon but she [TS]

00:27:56   sets into motion by being there the [TS]

00:27:58   Californians have the production and [TS]

00:28:00   then she an axe or does the thing that [TS]

00:28:02   gets the doctor to go into the [TS]

00:28:04   punishment is so then what's up with the [TS]

00:28:05   doctor deciding to destroy history to [TS]

00:28:07   recover Clara and there she's in the [TS]

00:28:09   ruins so it's very neat i don't think [TS]

00:28:11   the Marlins actually not that neat [TS]

00:28:12   because it's only one because because [TS]

00:28:15   the other so that's the other part of [TS]

00:28:17   the prophecy was that did you know [TS]

00:28:19   ruined Gallifrey like destroyed the [TS]

00:28:21   billion hearts to heal its own another [TS]

00:28:25   doctor [TS]

00:28:25   wow that's not better ever so it's it's [TS]

00:28:28   still it's still very much left [TS]

00:28:30   headcanon which I love I like that it's [TS]

00:28:32   very open-ended listen didn't I anything [TS]

00:28:34   up in and we don't know who the hybrid [TS]

00:28:35   is ultimately but it is funny that in [TS]

00:28:37   this moment first she's created by the [TS]

00:28:39   doctors compassion realizing who he is [TS]

00:28:41   and what what he stands for and that's [TS]

00:28:43   why he does this [TS]

00:28:45   but but there is that great moment upon [TS]

00:28:47   reflection and and it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:28:50   perfect thing because it is structured [TS]

00:28:51   for people who have seen the whole [TS]

00:28:53   season and are watching it again to go [TS]

00:28:55   oh look at that where he very clearly is [TS]

00:28:58   like she's a hybrid and you could [TS]

00:29:02   see it in his eyes that he he has [TS]

00:29:04   figured out who she is or as an inkling [TS]

00:29:07   of who she is and that's all really [TS]

00:29:09   interesting and then that becomes a [TS]

00:29:10   threat in this whole season which is the [TS]

00:29:12   doctor does a good deed because that's [TS]

00:29:14   who he is and he saves people and that's [TS]

00:29:17   why he chose the face of Achilles who [TS]

00:29:19   david tennant's doctor saved in Pompeii [TS]

00:29:21   but it has ramifications because in this [TS]

00:29:24   case he's like with Captain Jack [TS]

00:29:26   Harkness who is who is named checked at [TS]

00:29:28   a later time because she now can't die [TS]

00:29:31   and therefore is an anomaly in the [TS]

00:29:34   universe and they also mention that [TS]

00:29:35   hybrid business in the first dalla [TS]

00:29:38   two-parter and that's right them that's [TS]

00:29:40   the hybrid that that the Time Lords [TS]

00:29:42   think is the legend that a half Dalek [TS]

00:29:45   half Time Lord hyper exactly exceeded [TS]

00:29:47   yeah I I thought it was interesting too [TS]

00:29:50   that the throwaway bit that was [TS]

00:29:51   confusing is in the in the woman who [TS]

00:29:54   lived they make another immortal and [TS]

00:29:56   that's it and we don't see him again [TS]

00:29:58   well no because they didn't they didn't [TS]

00:30:00   say that he was necessarily more like [TS]

00:30:02   you said it may have burned out the chip [TS]

00:30:04   in order to actually bring him back so [TS]

00:30:05   who knows i'm making that up he said [TS]

00:30:07   maybe right [TS]

00:30:08   also also there's the fact that she's [TS]

00:30:10   not i mean not exactly indestructible [TS]

00:30:13   she wondered if she doesn't get harmed [TS]

00:30:15   exactly reason she live so long is [TS]

00:30:17   because she's awesome and that every guy [TS]

00:30:19   didn't seem quite so awesome so i [TS]

00:30:20   wouldn't be surprised if you just got [TS]

00:30:22   his head lopped off accidentally and [TS]

00:30:23   some point could grow a new one but his [TS]

00:30:25   head is immortal but his body is that we [TS]

00:30:28   carry out a convenient that's a text [TS]

00:30:30   file so you get the face but that's the [TS]

00:30:32   Christmas episode [TS]

00:30:34   any other thoughts about I mean about [TS]

00:30:35   this is interesting setup of the sort of [TS]

00:30:38   paired like these are the I shielder [TS]

00:30:40   stories about about the I mean the first [TS]

00:30:44   the first story is a fairy it feels like [TS]

00:30:46   a very kind of like standard Doctor Who [TS]

00:30:48   story there are Vikings and you know and [TS]

00:30:52   and aliens it's actually my least [TS]

00:30:54   favorite of the whole sounds I think my [TS]

00:30:56   favorite my favorite parts of this [TS]

00:30:58   two-parter were just the the [TS]

00:30:59   heart-to-heart character bits between [TS]

00:31:01   the doctor and a shoulder / me [TS]

00:31:04   yeah and it's when they sort of you know [TS]

00:31:05   when the brand it brought in that weird [TS]

00:31:07   lion and everything else that sort of [TS]

00:31:09   what else [TS]

00:31:09   it kinda kinda distracted from anyway [TS]

00:31:12   and Stephen space this space but what's [TS]

00:31:14   the episode Tom Baker series with the [TS]

00:31:16   the navigator all I know I was really [TS]

00:31:18   hoping is gonna be a thorough from [TS]

00:31:20   warriors game was not every i love that [TS]

00:31:22   pair those at me I whatever the rep so [TS]

00:31:24   there any spans love the hell yeah [TS]

00:31:26   they're totally different space lion's [TS]

00:31:28   mane anyw Spacelines yeah it's a credit [TS]

00:31:31   credit amazing williams who I think if [TS]

00:31:33   you actually time don't how much screen [TS]

00:31:35   time she had in her four episodes of [TS]

00:31:37   Doctor Who she might have had more than [TS]

00:31:39   the whole last season of Game of Thrones [TS]

00:31:41   oh yeah but I mean she gives four [TS]

00:31:44   distinct performances of the shoulder in [TS]

00:31:46   four episodes because she's aged so many [TS]

00:31:48   times in between and this is a girl who [TS]

00:31:50   turned 18 during the course of making my [TS]

00:31:53   series you know like she is a talented [TS]

00:31:55   young actress [TS]

00:31:57   yeah it was great to watch him yeah I [TS]

00:31:59   had that I that's a moment same thought [TS]

00:32:01   of like because I had a moment during [TS]

00:32:03   this season where I thought I think I [TS]

00:32:05   think I'm use maisie williams as as the [TS]

00:32:07   next companion i did have that moment [TS]

00:32:09   and I thought well no cuz she's on Game [TS]

00:32:12   of Thrones and I thought how much work [TS]

00:32:14   does she do for Game of Thrones really [TS]

00:32:15   oh right i mean she's in like 15 minutes [TS]

00:32:18   of Game of Thrones every year [TS]

00:32:20   she's in very little of it because [TS]

00:32:21   that's how game of thrones works so you [TS]

00:32:24   know she yeah she i'm pretty sure she [TS]

00:32:26   has more screen time and Doctor Who than [TS]

00:32:28   in Game of Thrones this year how [TS]

00:32:29   underrated one last little thing that I [TS]

00:32:31   like which is that the idea of placing [TS]

00:32:33   you mentioned that she has a human mind [TS]

00:32:35   so she actually does not have it you [TS]

00:32:37   know in eternal memory she has a limited [TS]

00:32:39   memory and she says volumes and I mean [TS]

00:32:41   it's sort of a gag and she's got you [TS]

00:32:43   know a library full of volumes of her [TS]

00:32:44   diary there's no way in any given period [TS]

00:32:47   of time she can review that enough to [TS]

00:32:49   reclaim the memory that she lost so [TS]

00:32:50   there is that a bit there but i think [TS]

00:32:53   the idea of a boring immortality [TS]

00:32:55   there's a in the the night of the doctor [TS]

00:32:58   you know he encounters that the sisters [TS]

00:33:00   on Khan and karna and they say he's like [TS]

00:33:04   oh yes the sister it was at the sisters [TS]

00:33:06   of infinite boredom I've forgotten the [TS]

00:33:07   sea but he's contemptuous of immortality [TS]

00:33:11   even as he has this very long life and [TS]

00:33:14   is now lived as long as the universe [TS]

00:33:15   possible he threw all his master nations [TS]

00:33:17   but I just like that idea that the [TS]

00:33:19   immortality comes in different flavors [TS]

00:33:20   you've got [TS]

00:33:21   the captain jack harkness flavor you got [TS]

00:33:23   the shoulder flavor the doctor is flavor [TS]

00:33:25   of the oh he left flavor and so forth [TS]

00:33:27   and and another saying just watching [TS]

00:33:30   this are thinking about it at least [TS]

00:33:32   again after seeing the entire series [TS]

00:33:33   another little through line is the fact [TS]

00:33:36   that you have Clara's reaction to a [TS]

00:33:39   shoulder you know saying you know she's [TS]

00:33:40   just she's great you know I'll fight you [TS]

00:33:42   for it and in the end [TS]

00:33:44   Clara actually does get to have her as [TS]

00:33:45   the companion like our shoulders is [TS]

00:33:48   close companion ostensibly at the end of [TS]

00:33:50   the entire series so yeah she didn't [TS]

00:33:51   really have to fight the doctor for she [TS]

00:33:53   just got her which by God I i want to [TS]

00:33:56   see girl I want to hear that big [TS]

00:33:57   finished like now it's AII like the [TS]

00:34:01   because it when everybody heard that [TS]

00:34:03   Maisie Williams in it and and that she's [TS]

00:34:05   gonna play a huge part and then them as [TS]

00:34:07   much as Peter Capaldi's been talking [TS]

00:34:09   about Susan in interviews leading up to [TS]

00:34:11   the series everyone thought that Maisie [TS]

00:34:15   Williams going to play Susan in some way [TS]

00:34:16   shape [TS]

00:34:17   oh mom what I love what I love the [TS]

00:34:21   Ronnie what I love is at the end we know [TS]

00:34:24   yeah what I love it at the end win-win [TS]

00:34:26   klar runs off fleas Gallifrey in a [TS]

00:34:29   TARDIS and takes with her companion it's [TS]

00:34:32   Susan who was of course the companion of [TS]

00:34:34   the doctor when he took a TARDIS fleeing [TS]

00:34:35   Gallifrey I just love the the parallels [TS]

00:34:38   in that in that in that the fact you [TS]

00:34:41   know the outlandish fan theory was [TS]

00:34:44   actually sort of born true in the end I [TS]

00:34:46   i wanted to mention something here which [TS]

00:34:49   is and I've heard a lot of people say [TS]

00:34:51   the Clara has a shoulder as her [TS]

00:34:52   companion here but shields lived [TS]

00:34:54   millions of years that'll yeah i'm not [TS]

00:34:57   quite sure I feel like they're both one [TS]

00:34:59   another's companion at that point they [TS]

00:35:00   both have different things to offer each [TS]

00:35:03   other at that point neither of them is [TS]

00:35:05   really Time Lords they're just they're [TS]

00:35:07   very interesting characters in their [TS]

00:35:09   little tartness together it's not quite [TS]

00:35:11   the parallel but well I mean they're [TS]

00:35:12   both they're both immortal [TS]

00:35:14   yes yes shield they're all right another [TS]

00:35:16   son of mortality has live longer but my [TS]

00:35:19   car is the one who has actually been [TS]

00:35:21   taking dr. lessons [TS]

00:35:22   yes that's yours and she's the one who [TS]

00:35:24   knows how to pilot the TARDIS so I still [TS]

00:35:26   I still see it in that way i don't know [TS]

00:35:28   shoulder might have taken dr. lessons at [TS]

00:35:29   one point her Billy matters of existence [TS]

00:35:31   whenever the doctor wasn't happy with [TS]

00:35:33   her [TS]

00:35:33   she's sitting there in the in the [TS]

00:35:35   armchair waiting for someone to show up [TS]

00:35:37   yeah the ruins of Gallifrey reading the [TS]

00:35:38   manuals that's what I do that that could [TS]

00:35:39   be that could pick so let's talk about [TS]

00:35:41   the episode 78 because we've only gotten [TS]

00:35:43   to that point the the Zygons this is [TS]

00:35:46   interesting because it's a directs a [TS]

00:35:48   direct follow on from the 50th [TS]

00:35:51   anniversary special which I was [TS]

00:35:52   surprised by and uh you know if we got [TS]

00:35:55   you we got unit i think i would argue [TS]

00:35:57   that unit is poorly run as questionable [TS]

00:36:01   budgets that appropriate given the [TS]

00:36:03   history of unit two guys place seventies [TS]

00:36:06   they hey let's end our leader to america [TS]

00:36:10   by herself in order to discover things [TS]

00:36:13   you know I don't think you get for what [TS]

00:36:16   gets used particularly well I'm not sure [TS]

00:36:18   what they if they know what to do with [TS]

00:36:19   unit but why did like about this is we [TS]

00:36:22   have we get some more Osgood who is an [TS]

00:36:23   interesting character and is made way [TS]

00:36:25   more interesting and less of a just a [TS]

00:36:27   fan proxy in this she's got a real [TS]

00:36:30   backbone since we discovered that what [TS]

00:36:33   that there were a pair of us goods igon [TS]

00:36:35   human and one of them got killed by [TS]

00:36:37   missy but the other one didnt so that's [TS]

00:36:39   an interesting twist and we get some uh [TS]

00:36:43   some really interesting stuff with [TS]

00:36:45   without with Clara as at whose were [TS]

00:36:48   doing some stuff on her own and and then [TS]

00:36:51   ultimately it culminates in a scene in [TS]

00:36:56   the black archive back where we were in [TS]

00:36:58   the 50th where Peter Capaldi gives a a [TS]

00:37:01   speech about a war and about people [TS]

00:37:04   making easy decisions to go to war and [TS]

00:37:07   not thinking about the consequences that [TS]

00:37:09   is performance wise one of I think the [TS]

00:37:12   highlights of the season even though you [TS]

00:37:14   know you could argue that it's wrapped [TS]

00:37:15   in an episode that does that can't live [TS]

00:37:17   up to what he does in that 10 minute [TS]

00:37:20   span so you know what that's my that's [TS]

00:37:22   my take on it is i think these episodes [TS]

00:37:24   are kind of a mess but there's a bunch [TS]

00:37:26   of little bits in it that were very good [TS]

00:37:28   and that Capaldi speech is for the ages [TS]

00:37:30   it's just a fantastic little bit i think [TS]

00:37:32   one of the big themes that over arch [TS]

00:37:35   this whole series is that the idea of [TS]

00:37:37   consequences and repercussions almost [TS]

00:37:39   every single one of these these two [TS]

00:37:41   partners has something in there you know [TS]

00:37:43   whether it's meeting dad process a child [TS]

00:37:45   or you didn't [TS]

00:37:47   turning me into a hybrid or in this case [TS]

00:37:50   i love the idea that we are finally [TS]

00:37:52   seeing the fallout of what happened with [TS]

00:37:54   the Zygons invading I mean they actually [TS]

00:37:56   got to stay that's the kind of thing [TS]

00:37:58   that you almost never saw especially in [TS]

00:38:00   classic who you got a little bit more in [TS]

00:38:02   early knew who but you know the doctor [TS]

00:38:05   can't just run away from everything [TS]

00:38:07   anymore and now we're getting to see [TS]

00:38:09   what happens after after the fallout [TS]

00:38:12   sort of appears and the idea that there [TS]

00:38:14   are Zygons living among us on earth you [TS]

00:38:17   know just hiding is is super awesome [TS]

00:38:19   well I suppose the Cylons would probably [TS]

00:38:21   be pretty ticked off about it from when [TS]

00:38:23   they come back and find out find out [TS]

00:38:25   that I got into their how many different [TS]

00:38:27   people are frozen and ice underneath the [TS]

00:38:29   sea locked in a time log in and turns [TS]

00:38:33   out that almost point at this point in [TS]

00:38:36   Doctor Who timelines there are no actual [TS]

00:38:39   humans like they're aliens in the sky [TS]

00:38:41   yeah i think this is a sci-fi novel [TS]

00:38:44   about that is never a short story about [TS]

00:38:46   everyone on earth actually being a [TS]

00:38:47   duplicated personally only if there's [TS]

00:38:50   not all do it there's a classic science [TS]

00:38:52   fiction story about how time traveler [TS]

00:38:54   goes back to the crucifixion of Jesus [TS]

00:38:56   and discovers that everybody there is a [TS]

00:38:57   time traveler [TS]

00:38:59   yeah I know Jason and I talked about [TS]

00:39:02   episode 74 when the flash cast and I [TS]

00:39:04   remember saying like you know there's a [TS]

00:39:06   lot of creates things in this but the [TS]

00:39:07   payoff a better be good because there's [TS]

00:39:09   just so many loose ends and you know I [TS]

00:39:11   feel like the payoff was was pretty good [TS]

00:39:13   i don't think that episode 7 I lived up [TS]

00:39:17   as much but I thought a lot of stuff was [TS]

00:39:18   reckoned in 27 from eight and i quite [TS]

00:39:21   like the pair much more than I thought [TS]

00:39:23   especially because the hole is good [TS]

00:39:25   thing where is she's not even being coy [TS]

00:39:27   she's like we're both osgood and then [TS]

00:39:29   the ending where there's another Osgood [TS]

00:39:31   you're like the potential for redemption [TS]

00:39:33   is a theme of Doctor Who and most people [TS]

00:39:35   never take it most aliens he's like look [TS]

00:39:38   I could save your whole people they got [TS]

00:39:39   mad and then he has to distract them all [TS]

00:39:42   or they destroyed themselves when I was [TS]

00:39:44   David Tennant's move right I'm will give [TS]

00:39:45   you this one warning well i'm not gonna [TS]

00:39:47   take it okay well then you're all dead [TS]

00:39:48   yeah exactly what's gonna happen to [TS]

00:39:50   destroy everybody because that's so I do [TS]

00:39:52   sometimes actually the generalization so [TS]

00:39:54   I mean people like Star Wars fans like [TS]

00:39:56   to make a gentle fun i suppose of the [TS]

00:39:58   star wars proclivity to have like every [TS]

00:40:00   Planet has it [TS]

00:40:00   on one single ecosystem where we live on [TS]

00:40:03   a planet that has hundreds of different [TS]

00:40:05   ecosystems you different climates and [TS]

00:40:07   things but no no other planets it's [TS]

00:40:09   either just eyes are just desert or just [TS]

00:40:11   trees but you can argue that doctor who [TS]

00:40:14   and sci-fi in general does a very bad [TS]

00:40:18   job in terms of taking an alien race and [TS]

00:40:21   and and being so reductive about them [TS]

00:40:23   and saying well they are evil or there [TS]

00:40:25   they are you know this is what the [TS]

00:40:26   aliens do land and one of the things [TS]

00:40:29   that I think maybe he's even a little [TS]

00:40:31   underappreciated about the design icon [TS]

00:40:32   to partner is designed guns this classic [TS]

00:40:35   Doctor Who enemy from the Loch Ness [TS]

00:40:38   monster back in the seventies these [TS]

00:40:41   episodes are all about a split in these [TS]

00:40:44   igon community on earth essentially this [TS]

00:40:48   immigrant is icon community and there [TS]

00:40:50   are radicalized icons who think that [TS]

00:40:53   it's read only right that they not be [TS]

00:40:54   high hiding and then there are the ones [TS]

00:40:57   who just want to live their lives and of [TS]

00:40:59   course the parallel is probably to [TS]

00:41:01   something like Syria where there is a [TS]

00:41:04   refugee crisis and there are people who [TS]

00:41:07   just want to live their lives and yes [TS]

00:41:08   there are also radicalized terrorists [TS]

00:41:11   among them and this the challenge of not [TS]

00:41:13   generalizing an entire group to be one [TS]

00:41:17   thing and I like that about this episode [TS]

00:41:20   i really like that these icons are not a [TS]

00:41:23   monolith they don't this race doesn't [TS]

00:41:26   believe one thing that they have a [TS]

00:41:28   schism they're individuals they take [TS]

00:41:31   different sides of an issue we meet the [TS]

00:41:33   Zygons who just want to stay looking [TS]

00:41:36   like humans and living their lives [TS]

00:41:37   because they're basically refugees and [TS]

00:41:39   doctor refers to them as people alltime [TS]

00:41:42   family room for children [TS]

00:41:44   yes I also like the fact that they [TS]

00:41:46   actually claim the redemption was [TS]

00:41:47   important because that ending is so [TS]

00:41:50   powerful because what Bonnie the fact [TS]

00:41:53   that she uh when she figures it out all [TS]

00:41:57   all when she says both boxes are empty [TS]

00:42:00   just like the buttons don't do anything [TS]

00:42:02   and then she achieves that moment is [TS]

00:42:04   like a satori moment like I [TS]

00:42:06   Zen thing of now that person's chief the [TS]

00:42:09   new level of enlightenment and she's [TS]

00:42:10   allowed to demonstrate it in that final [TS]

00:42:12   scene weather now to Oscar to get [TS]

00:42:13   wonderful yeah what I what I loved about [TS]

00:42:16   about capacities speech there is that I [TS]

00:42:19   think you know matt smith what I think [TS]

00:42:21   made a good speech in one early episode [TS]

00:42:23   and the writers I think henceforth sort [TS]

00:42:27   of always wrote big giant speeches from [TS]

00:42:28   because they realize he you know he was [TS]

00:42:30   good at them and then it just became a [TS]

00:42:32   thing to fill time and I got tired of [TS]

00:42:35   him to be honest the weather brings back [TS]

00:42:36   attend there's a boat or speeches too [TS]

00:42:38   many but this but this one capacities [TS]

00:42:41   actually speaking to someone and it's [TS]

00:42:44   literally like 10 minutes of just him [TS]

00:42:46   but because he's talking to someone [TS]

00:42:48   specifically it just feels like you know [TS]

00:42:51   you're you're locked in and I've ever [TS]

00:42:52   you know I i have I hold this two-parter [TS]

00:42:55   in high esteem because it's when Eric [TS]

00:42:57   and I went to the UK for the first time [TS]

00:42:59   and then washed in the UK and part 2 [TS]

00:43:02   especially we watched it you know with a [TS]

00:43:04   family around the TV as as all British [TS]

00:43:08   families have to have done for [TS]

00:43:10   generations now and to watch Doctor Who [TS]

00:43:12   on a Saturday night and then have this [TS]

00:43:14   episode be the one that we get to watch [TS]

00:43:16   I thought ah boy this is just lucked out [TS]

00:43:18   it was it was brilliant my luck to you [TS]

00:43:21   watched in the original Klingon as it [TS]

00:43:22   was intended to be seen [TS]

00:43:24   yes in Powell I actually watched the [TS]

00:43:26   power 25 frames you get that you get [TS]

00:43:29   those a second Dreamz the yawns it's [TS]

00:43:32   very different [TS]

00:43:32   yeah it is alright anything more about [TS]

00:43:35   this is about the minis icons or should [TS]

00:43:38   we let bygones be anywhere episode 19 [TS]

00:43:40   for some reason was no episode 9i don't [TS]

00:43:43   understand this is a big black spot in [TS]

00:43:45   the season and then no no [TS]

00:43:46   so that's all right so sleep no more is [TS]

00:43:48   next is we were now entering our non [TS]

00:43:50   two-parter little pair here sleeping [TS]

00:43:53   morbark geddes controversial market is [TS]

00:43:56   good buddy of Steven Moffat they do [TS]

00:43:58   Sherlock together so it's unlikely that [TS]

00:44:01   he's going to be kicked out of writing [TS]

00:44:04   for doctor who has been writing since [TS]

00:44:05   season 1 but people over there are a lot [TS]

00:44:09   of people who are allowed and don't like [TS]

00:44:11   his episodes i liked sort of half of [TS]

00:44:14   this episode's maybe and not like the [TS]

00:44:16   other half sleep no more the this is the [TS]

00:44:19   story about the same [TS]

00:44:20   and men who come to life on that space [TS]

00:44:23   station around Neptune and it's all the [TS]

00:44:26   found footage and there's no opening [TS]

00:44:28   credits and it's very unlikely doctor [TS]

00:44:30   who episode in that sense I you know I [TS]

00:44:33   did I i do this episode with smiles on [TS]

00:44:37   the TV podcast and it was funny because [TS]

00:44:39   i think both of us liked some aspects of [TS]

00:44:43   it and not others and it was sort of [TS]

00:44:45   like we started the episode was like [TS]

00:44:46   that was kind of fun yeah that was kind [TS]

00:44:48   of fun let's spend 15 minutes detailing [TS]

00:44:50   all the things that were wrong with it [TS]

00:44:51   and I feel like it in hindsight that's [TS]

00:44:55   about right because style-wise i really [TS]

00:44:58   like the style of this episode i think [TS]

00:44:59   is so big and dark and weird and and yet [TS]

00:45:03   there are things in it that it's like no [TS]

00:45:05   no what are you doing the the whole well [TS]

00:45:09   we sort of slept and the sleep stays in [TS]

00:45:12   your eyes if you don't sleep and then it [TS]

00:45:16   becomes alien sand men that was slick [TS]

00:45:19   though it doesn't make any sense what I [TS]

00:45:21   like doing entire shape of it and [TS]

00:45:23   nothing in it was like everything that's [TS]

00:45:25   not was insane and the the you know even [TS]

00:45:28   like the the weird hologram was just so [TS]

00:45:30   everything was dark and creepy and tired [TS]

00:45:33   and had a weird ending and all of that I [TS]

00:45:35   liked and yet there's some of the [TS]

00:45:37   details [TS]

00:45:38   no no no now I it feels like I mean [TS]

00:45:41   market has had the idea for us but for [TS]

00:45:45   some reason monsters being made out of [TS]

00:45:48   the ice not using the morning for years [TS]

00:45:51   but he but he couldn't get the clearance [TS]

00:45:53   from the song for mr Sandman so this [TS]

00:45:55   idea just SAT percolating for that long [TS]

00:45:58   and then he finally got the clearance [TS]

00:45:59   and by that time doctor who had moved on [TS]

00:46:02   so it's a very restful t-day vez kind of [TS]

00:46:05   idea around it just feels and and you [TS]

00:46:07   know I thought well atleast episode 10 [TS]

00:46:09   is going to be you know a single story [TS]

00:46:11   too so won't feel that but then it [TS]

00:46:12   episode 10 was essentially part 1 of the [TS]

00:46:15   3 partner to end the season which just [TS]

00:46:17   led this one too just feel so out of [TS]

00:46:19   place just like last year robot of [TS]

00:46:21   Sherwood felt just nothing like a Peter [TS]

00:46:23   Capaldi episode stuck in you know early [TS]

00:46:27   early on in this first season and this [TS]

00:46:28   would just look like it just I know just [TS]

00:46:31   like to say okay mark you get to make [TS]

00:46:32   your episode moment [TS]

00:46:33   again we'll put it on the fridge right [TS]

00:46:35   there when you're done everyone could be [TS]

00:46:36   happy and that's just what it felt like [TS]

00:46:38   an ear I liked I liked the atmosphere [TS]

00:46:40   like being so true yeah I know I like [TS]

00:46:43   the direction but i just got our mass [TS]

00:46:46   this alone [TS]

00:46:47   well I guess I love some of my favorite [TS]

00:46:49   my favorite uh one of my favorite David [TS]

00:46:51   10 episodes is the is the the impossible [TS]

00:46:55   planet satan pit and it's for similar [TS]

00:46:57   reasons which is it's dark and weird and [TS]

00:47:00   spooky and creepy and like the [TS]

00:47:03   atmosphere i just love the atmosphere of [TS]

00:47:06   those episodes and Gabriel Wolf's boys [TS]

00:47:08   you will die and i would live right i [TS]

00:47:11   love that and sleeping more has that and [TS]

00:47:14   it's like works on that level and that's [TS]

00:47:19   it i think it was almost like greatest [TS]

00:47:21   wants to wants to have his own little [TS]

00:47:23   blink moment you know don't blink don't [TS]

00:47:25   ever blink and they show shots of you [TS]

00:47:27   know various statues around the world [TS]

00:47:29   they're gonna get you if you if you keep [TS]

00:47:30   looking at them and that speech at the [TS]

00:47:32   end you know who you've got something at [TS]

00:47:34   the corner of you I never thought no I [TS]

00:47:36   don't come on i do not have a monster [TS]

00:47:39   forming in the corner of my eye you know [TS]

00:47:41   I it was we went to was a crazy November [TS]

00:47:45   because we went to Long Island Doctor [TS]

00:47:48   Who convention where we watched this [TS]

00:47:50   episode live on on on the Saturday night [TS]

00:47:54   they played it to the whole auditorium [TS]

00:47:55   and then two weeks later we're jakarta's [TS]

00:47:58   for the plate heaven-sent and the the [TS]

00:48:00   immediate reaction both during and after [TS]

00:48:03   the episodes could not have been more [TS]

00:48:05   different [TS]

00:48:06   yeah wewe a radio free scar had to do a [TS]

00:48:08   live review of sleep no more own right [TS]

00:48:11   after like literally i'd say about [TS]

00:48:14   seventy percent of the people just sort [TS]

00:48:16   of like you know walked out as if they [TS]

00:48:18   had just seen their football team lose a [TS]

00:48:19   game just like a walk back just look at [TS]

00:48:23   them with the with the flash casts and [TS]

00:48:25   also just like with ready for Scarlett [TS]

00:48:27   Verity being committed to reviewing [TS]

00:48:29   every episode you had that moment of [TS]

00:48:30   like well what do we say various media I [TS]

00:48:35   I again I don't think Sleep No More is a [TS]

00:48:37   complete failure because of because it's [TS]

00:48:40   saying style is good i mean the style is [TS]

00:48:43   not not part of the episode that is part [TS]

00:48:45   of the the episode [TS]

00:48:47   and the style is great it's just you [TS]

00:48:49   know again when you get into the [TS]

00:48:51   analysis of it [TS]

00:48:52   oh you know that's when it falls apart [TS]

00:48:54   it's actually like it's better to be [TS]

00:48:56   viewed and being like but once your or [TS]

00:48:59   if you're in a crowd of fans right you [TS]

00:49:01   start thinking about it and it's just it [TS]

00:49:03   does not withstand scrutiny [TS]

00:49:04   I just as I feel like it is felt like an [TS]

00:49:06   early draft not a complete thing like [TS]

00:49:08   they hadn't gone back and tighten it up [TS]

00:49:10   any more consistent which they did so [TS]

00:49:12   well I mean you know we'll talk about [TS]

00:49:13   this at the end with this season was a [TS]

00:49:15   phenomenal season and in this episode [TS]

00:49:17   was not so it stood out more [TS]

00:49:20   sometimes I wonder about the politics of [TS]

00:49:22   it like interpersonal relationships of [TS]

00:49:25   you know you're Steven Moffat likes [TS]

00:49:27   Russell Russell Davis free road almost [TS]

00:49:29   everybody i think except Steven Moffat [TS]

00:49:31   Steven Moffat apparently doesn't really [TS]

00:49:33   do that and sometimes I wonder that you [TS]

00:49:37   get these scripts that could probably be [TS]

00:49:39   made better if the if and whether it's [TS]

00:49:41   over work or it's just difference you [TS]

00:49:44   get a you get the scripts just go [TS]

00:49:47   through with women with perhaps I don't [TS]

00:49:49   know the inside story here but it would [TS]

00:49:51   not surprise me if market history got a [TS]

00:49:53   really light touch on it a little bit [TS]

00:49:56   like kill the moon the previous season [TS]

00:49:57   where I felt like it's interesting but [TS]

00:49:59   it could probably there are some very [TS]

00:50:01   simple things that would have probably [TS]

00:50:03   made a stronger story but they didn't [TS]

00:50:04   happen maybe that's out of out of [TS]

00:50:07   deference to Peter harness i don't i [TS]

00:50:09   don't know but uh yeah yeah i mean i-i [TS]

00:50:12   think it's a I think this episode is [TS]

00:50:14   kind of a mess [TS]

00:50:15   even though i like a lot of things about [TS]

00:50:16   it the other thing that I like the most [TS]

00:50:18   about it was in the the representation [TS]

00:50:21   in it i like the casting and this has [TS]

00:50:22   nothing to do with Mark Davis unless he [TS]

00:50:24   wrote the characters as at most of the [TS]

00:50:26   characters as female which maybe he did [TS]

00:50:28   but i love the idea that there's an [TS]

00:50:30   asian woman who's in charge yeah and we [TS]

00:50:32   have our first openly transactor playing [TS]

00:50:35   the the grunt which some people did have [TS]

00:50:37   trouble with but they did not know that [TS]

00:50:40   she was trans at the time that they cast [TS]

00:50:42   her in that role so I don't have a [TS]

00:50:43   problem with it at all my trouble was [TS]

00:50:45   the casual sexual harassment that the [TS]

00:50:47   that person was engaged in against the [TS]

00:50:49   other crewmember but that's another [TS]

00:50:51   thing that's not related to their [TS]

00:50:52   general Josie I loved that was my [TS]

00:50:54   favorite part of the whole story because [TS]

00:50:56   it was completely taking that that tired [TS]

00:50:59   old trope [TS]

00:51:00   where there's you know the guy in that [TS]

00:51:02   position and flipping it on its head [TS]

00:51:04   I think that sometimes those problematic [TS]

00:51:06   things to me are less problematic [TS]

00:51:08   because they are you know we need to [TS]

00:51:10   break them down before we can get rid of [TS]

00:51:12   them all together so I like turning [TS]

00:51:13   things that turn things around and and I [TS]

00:51:15   don't know that it was intentional in [TS]

00:51:17   the script but probably in the overall [TS]

00:51:21   planning for the season there is a [TS]

00:51:23   thread of strong women through the whole [TS]

00:51:25   season which is really interesting out i [TS]

00:51:28   think i think that has to be intentional [TS]

00:51:30   yes because Steven Moffat yes Steven [TS]

00:51:32   Moffat may not be on Twitter anywhere he [TS]

00:51:34   still pays attention to to sort of you [TS]

00:51:36   know what fandom as a whole is is saying [TS]

00:51:38   and I think that I think that he [TS]

00:51:40   definitely sort of listens to the [TS]

00:51:42   feminist backlash against some of the [TS]

00:51:44   stuff that people had seen and really [TS]

00:51:46   worked on that with with the casting and [TS]

00:51:48   gosh look at the end of the season it's [TS]

00:51:50   not there right yeah it's a also shout [TS]

00:51:53   out to Neptune Neptune doesn't get a lot [TS]

00:51:55   of love inside thigh here it is [TS]

00:51:57   yep tune ya around Neptune okay that [TS]

00:52:00   brings us to the either an angry person [TS]

00:52:04   who was upset that i referred to heaven [TS]

00:52:06   sent his part 1 of the two-part season [TS]

00:52:07   finale like it's a three-part season [TS]

00:52:09   finale and that's part like well I don't [TS]

00:52:12   know [TS]

00:52:12   utopia sort of leads into the finale and [TS]

00:52:16   face the Raven sort of leads into the [TS]

00:52:18   two-part finale quite the same but [TS]

00:52:20   anyway face the Raven it seems like it's [TS]

00:52:22   a standalone episode rapidly become [TS]

00:52:24   something very different [TS]

00:52:26   this is the episode now I managed to see [TS]

00:52:28   where Erica's emotional progression is [TS]

00:52:29   now because I've been listening to [TS]

00:52:31   podcast which she is she is a because [TS]

00:52:33   i'm a little behind on my very listing [TS]

00:52:35   she's very emotionally compromised let's [TS]

00:52:38   say to pull in some Star Trek references [TS]

00:52:39   about that the death of Clara which [TS]

00:52:43   happens to face the Raven and it does [TS]

00:52:45   happen and face the Raven Clara dies and [TS]

00:52:47   face the Raven we may find out more [TS]

00:52:49   about her death in the inhale that which [TS]

00:52:52   we do but uh spoilers but well we're all [TS]

00:52:55   spoilers here but face the Raven so this [TS]

00:52:58   is there's a street Trixie we find from [TS]

00:53:01   from the delightful flatline from last [TS]

00:53:03   year [TS]

00:53:04   ritzy calls he's got a tattoo that is [TS]

00:53:06   counting down which is a nice again a [TS]

00:53:08   nice little creepy idea that's thrown in [TS]

00:53:10   there there's a little street that was [TS]

00:53:12   obviously available for [TS]

00:53:14   the set of harry potter maybe I don't [TS]

00:53:16   even know it's really an alley where [TS]

00:53:19   aliens buzz it was and there's a bird [TS]

00:53:22   and there's a chronolock and and [TS]

00:53:24   shielder is there or me is there and in [TS]

00:53:29   the end [TS]

00:53:30   Clara is being very very clever in a [TS]

00:53:32   napoleon III have to honestly say is [TS]

00:53:34   exactly where I thought the doctor and [TS]

00:53:37   rose were going in season two and then [TS]

00:53:41   they didn't go there she just got [TS]

00:53:42   accidentally sucked into a vortex to [TS]

00:53:44   another parallel universe but here it is [TS]

00:53:48   that like you're dangerous you'll become [TS]

00:53:49   too much like the doctor and start to [TS]

00:53:51   think like him but as the doctor says [TS]

00:53:53   he's he's a less what does he say he [TS]

00:53:58   said something like he's less fragile [TS]

00:53:59   then she is well he knows what I mean [TS]

00:54:02   you know there's that the underlying [TS]

00:54:04   thing that he can't die MIT but the ante [TS]

00:54:06   plot part but also that he knows when he [TS]

00:54:08   dies sort of mean that gets rewritten [TS]

00:54:10   and we get around around take more [TS]

00:54:12   damage than she can but she's thing i [TS]

00:54:13   like to hear it and and hurts her and it [TS]

00:54:16   in the end it kills her in a in an [TS]

00:54:19   episode that I found very affecting um I [TS]

00:54:23   was shocked by it I I podcast with with [TS]

00:54:26   chips others right after this was over [TS]

00:54:27   and the first five minutes of it was [TS]

00:54:30   literally me going cheap what did I just [TS]

00:54:31   see what just happened because i had no [TS]

00:54:33   idea that they were gonna kill Clara and [TS]

00:54:36   I was shocked by it and and I felt like [TS]

00:54:37   they did it right in that we spent time [TS]

00:54:40   understanding the ramifications of Clara [TS]

00:54:43   dying he didn't you know when you kill [TS]

00:54:45   somebody but you're not really killing [TS]

00:54:46   them you do it you gotta toss it off you [TS]

00:54:49   don't invest the time and they invested [TS]

00:54:51   the time to the point where as a [TS]

00:54:52   educated television viewer like oh no [TS]

00:54:54   they're taking their taking this [TS]

00:54:56   seriously this must be real [TS]

00:54:58   they were playing that game which I [TS]

00:55:00   appreciated while it while it you know [TS]

00:55:03   it shocked me and it upset me the [TS]

00:55:05   problem i had with this episode I'm [TS]

00:55:07   interested in what all you think the [TS]

00:55:08   problem i had with this episode as I [TS]

00:55:10   felt like the the the read the fine [TS]

00:55:13   print trick that kills clara was not [TS]

00:55:18   really set up I felt like it was kind of [TS]

00:55:22   a cheat that the audience was being [TS]

00:55:24   cheated in order to not out think Clara [TS]

00:55:26   up [TS]

00:55:27   about this and that bothered me that was [TS]

00:55:29   like no no we didn't say that you [TS]

00:55:31   couldn't transfer it and still not die [TS]

00:55:33   her home and it's all kind of like a [TS]

00:55:35   ripoff to me didn't change how affected [TS]

00:55:37   i was by the ending but I did feel a [TS]

00:55:39   little bit like they were trying to pull [TS]

00:55:40   a fast one on me in the middle [TS]

00:55:42   yes and yes yeah yep that's you read the [TS]

00:55:45   fine print of your death contract you [TS]

00:55:47   know the the begin the bits and pieces [TS]

00:55:50   of it are very effective but yeah the [TS]

00:55:51   key to that plot the key to that twist [TS]

00:55:55   just did not i don't think they sold it [TS]

00:55:59   enough like now it isn't didn't I think [TS]

00:56:01   we're now so much time on her and trying [TS]

00:56:04   to understand that and not enough time [TS]

00:56:06   on trying to actually explain and set [TS]

00:56:08   that up [TS]

00:56:09   yeah you know I sort of like it just all [TS]

00:56:11   of a sudden oh you gotta remind Davis [TS]

00:56:14   this PV at the end the episode so I [TS]

00:56:16   didn't get that the full weight of her [TS]

00:56:18   dying i was sort of annoyed at that but [TS]

00:56:20   I kind of got it retcon by episodes by [TS]

00:56:23   yeah let me enjoy it better well but the [TS]

00:56:25   other thing was the point that's got me [TS]

00:56:27   but we'll get to 12 but I actually cry [TS]

00:56:29   everytime i watch tell Ben only twice [TS]

00:56:31   when she gets pissed off at him [TS]

00:56:33   why would you do that why would you do [TS]

00:56:35   that for spending all the time in the in [TS]

00:56:38   the confession dial that got me you know [TS]

00:56:41   i was dead and gone just like off she [TS]

00:56:43   that just hit me in the heart in a way [TS]

00:56:46   that this episode didn't unfortunately [TS]

00:56:47   out to watch it again now that another [TS]

00:56:49   speed about that plot point America how [TS]

00:56:51   are you feeling now [TS]

00:56:52   hey you know if it was any other [TS]

00:56:54   character other than clara who died this [TS]

00:56:56   way I would have punched the air and [TS]

00:56:58   been thrilled because I i often i often [TS]

00:57:01   complain about the fact that that that [TS]

00:57:03   characters on Doctor Who like you know [TS]

00:57:05   it's such a risky proposition to travel [TS]

00:57:07   with the doctor I feel like a lot more [TS]

00:57:09   characters ought to die and and I like [TS]

00:57:11   it when a TV show is bold enough to just [TS]

00:57:14   kill somebody off in a not big not [TS]

00:57:17   schmaltzy sort of away like this is just [TS]

00:57:19   boom she died [TS]

00:57:21   however the fact that it is Clara my [TS]

00:57:23   possibly favorite companion ever who I'd [TS]

00:57:25   apparently developed more of an [TS]

00:57:27   emotional attachment to the night even [TS]

00:57:29   thought I had kind of had my hopes up [TS]

00:57:32   that this would be the first new series [TS]

00:57:35   companion who got to basically leave for [TS]

00:57:38   an exciting and good reason why [TS]

00:57:40   under her own agency we've been sort of [TS]

00:57:44   written us into a corner at this point [TS]

00:57:45   nobody can possibly want to leave the [TS]

00:57:48   doctor because who would want to leave [TS]

00:57:50   that kind of a life and that bugs me [TS]

00:57:52   I like the idea that that characters [TS]

00:57:54   could just go and that's one of the [TS]

00:57:55   things i think was better in the old [TS]

00:57:57   series even though sometimes it was [TS]

00:57:58   really stupid but here we we have a sort [TS]

00:58:03   of a great ending except that I wanted [TS]

00:58:06   her to go on to be awesome and keep in [TS]

00:58:10   mind this is before help help and has [TS]

00:58:11   come along so I I knew that there was a [TS]

00:58:14   good possibility that they were going to [TS]

00:58:16   kill off Clara or make her leave before [TS]

00:58:18   the series was over so about halfway [TS]

00:58:21   through this episode I could suddenly [TS]

00:58:23   see where I was going and it became the [TS]

00:58:25   most awful experience of washing talker [TS]

00:58:27   who I think I've ever had [TS]

00:58:28   I was just tense and I knew where it was [TS]

00:58:31   heading and yep that's where it ended up [TS]

00:58:33   and I was just I was just shaking with [TS]

00:58:35   rage I was so upset but you know I i [TS]

00:58:39   always get mad at other people when they [TS]

00:58:41   write a doctor who plot in their head [TS]

00:58:43   and it doesn't come up on the screen and [TS]

00:58:44   they get upset with the show Yeah Yeah [TS]

00:58:46   right here you know here i have sort of [TS]

00:58:48   unwittingly done that so i'm not i'm not [TS]

00:58:50   actually mad at Steven Moffat for [TS]

00:58:52   killing off killing off car I feel like [TS]

00:58:54   it was a wise decision from a [TS]

00:58:56   storytelling standpoint but emotionally [TS]

00:58:57   I just it wasn't ready for it [TS]

00:58:59   I i don't know that i will be ready to [TS]

00:59:01   watch face the Raven again anytime soon [TS]

00:59:03   maybe not ever [TS]

00:59:04   I still haven't listened and listened to [TS]

00:59:05   a whole bunch of Doctor Who podcast and [TS]

00:59:07   i have not listened to a single one [TS]

00:59:09   about face the Raven including Verity I [TS]

00:59:11   beg absconded from that episode like I [TS]

00:59:13   was just like nope we're not going to be [TS]

00:59:15   honest I can't talk about it so I [TS]

00:59:16   haven't listened to anybody talk about [TS]

00:59:18   it sorry I didn't listen to you and chip [TS]

00:59:19   Jason were created later on is awesome [TS]

00:59:23   that's fine it doesn't know what did I [TS]

00:59:25   just do it it's like love it it was such [TS]

00:59:29   a should I went on this is the most [TS]

00:59:31   unspoiled I've been a doctor who season [TS]

00:59:33   ever and I i love that about it but I [TS]

00:59:37   was shocked when I got to this moment I [TS]

00:59:39   although so again some of this light is [TS]

00:59:41   going said is the nuance that comes in [TS]

00:59:44   an episode 12 where we get to see Clara [TS]

00:59:46   again but I on one level it's like [TS]

00:59:50   everybody dies right and and Clara at [TS]

00:59:54   the end [TS]

00:59:54   of hell-bent says to a shoulder [TS]

00:59:56   essentially stop worrying about it [TS]

00:59:56   essentially stop worrying about it [TS]

01:00:00   all of us have an ending I know when [TS]

01:00:04   mine is but I don't need to go there yet [TS]

01:00:06   right i mean that is I think that's kind [TS]

01:00:08   of beautiful in in a way to to have her [TS]

01:00:11   her worldview be that but um but yeah it [TS]

01:00:14   is i just i would've felt better about [TS]

01:00:16   it if I hadn't felt like the scripted [TS]

01:00:18   and cheat a little bit in order i felt [TS]

01:00:20   like the script cheated to misdirect us [TS]

01:00:22   but it wasn't playing fair [TS]

01:00:24   and so when we got there I felt like I [TS]

01:00:26   got cheated instead of not realizing [TS]

01:00:30   with it wasn't just that I didn't [TS]

01:00:32   realize what the rules were along with [TS]

01:00:33   Clara because I'm Clara smart enough to [TS]

01:00:35   as a character to not make that mistake [TS]

01:00:37   i don't know i just felt like the [TS]

01:00:40   execution wasn't there where where I [TS]

01:00:42   wanted to feel like it was a fair you [TS]

01:00:45   know a fair cop essentially we're like [TS]

01:00:47   yep you got me right and I didn't feel [TS]

01:00:49   that the enemies in the Raven that's [TS]

01:00:51   what i wanted to just for Claire to be [TS]

01:00:52   like oh yeah all right [TS]

01:00:55   the reason I think it's it bothers us to [TS]

01:00:57   is that and I'm speaking for everyone [TS]

01:00:59   here you go on I'll shut me down is that [TS]

01:01:01   the episode could have been devised [TS]

01:01:03   slightly differently and we would have [TS]

01:01:04   been satisfied it didn't have to have a [TS]

01:01:06   broken mechanism because it was very [TS]

01:01:08   clever before and after and it set up at [TS]

01:01:11   the end the key that the key being [TS]

01:01:13   sucked in his wrists to the teleport [TS]

01:01:16   like all of the the ways to suck him [TS]

01:01:18   into a mystery were great but they could [TS]

01:01:21   have done the Clara misjudging something [TS]

01:01:24   differently like being to taking more [TS]

01:01:26   risk and knowing it and thinking she [TS]

01:01:28   could have gotten out of it and they [TS]

01:01:29   didn't give her that ability they made [TS]

01:01:32   her do something where she didn't know [TS]

01:01:33   it's like the Agatha Christie yes you [TS]

01:01:36   can solve this mystery including things [TS]

01:01:38   you never knew that's how you solve this [TS]

01:01:40   mystery [TS]

01:01:40   yeah I will somebody in the chatroom [TS]

01:01:45   mtpa just talk about can't you just have [TS]

01:01:48   the Companions choose to leave i think [TS]

01:01:49   that's one of the challenges with the [TS]

01:01:51   modern series by spending more count [TS]

01:01:52   companions and making them seem like [TS]

01:01:53   more reasonable characters you do often [TS]

01:01:57   go down a path where the idea is this is [TS]

01:02:00   such a wonderful life why would I ever [TS]

01:02:01   give it up and so with the exception of [TS]

01:02:05   Martha they have another whoo-hoo left [TS]

01:02:09   because the doctor was a complete jerk [TS]

01:02:10   to her [TS]

01:02:11   yeah exactly exactly right is not an [TS]

01:02:13   ideal [TS]

01:02:13   holes parchur but at least it was [TS]

01:02:15   different but the rest of them there has [TS]

01:02:17   been something horrible but has happened [TS]

01:02:18   because that's the only way you [TS]

01:02:20   definitely leave the doctor and I get it [TS]

01:02:21   from the sense of amping up like oh it's [TS]

01:02:23   the time of my life why would I ever [TS]

01:02:24   leave [TS]

01:02:25   I think of sarah jane saying you know [TS]

01:02:27   just just go you don't go with him [TS]

01:02:30   this is a special part of your life and [TS]

01:02:31   at some point it's going to end but i do [TS]

01:02:34   think that it's difficult because you [TS]

01:02:37   know you portray this is this amazing [TS]

01:02:39   magical thing which it is but you know [TS]

01:02:40   you're not going to have them the end [TS]

01:02:42   none of the actors stay on the show [TS]

01:02:44   longer than three years right so they [TS]

01:02:46   have to leave at some point and you end [TS]

01:02:48   up having to create these but you know [TS]

01:02:52   difficult circumstances for them to [TS]

01:02:55   depart because you've portrayed them as [TS]

01:02:57   somebody who would never willingly [TS]

01:02:58   choose to leave with the problem is the [TS]

01:03:00   Clara actually got to that point last [TS]

01:03:03   season where it makes sense for her to [TS]

01:03:05   quit and she didn't so they got there [TS]

01:03:09   and then it blew past it [TS]

01:03:10   yeah it made sense for Amy and Rory too [TS]

01:03:12   because they just sort of left at the [TS]

01:03:13   end of the god complex and you could [TS]

01:03:15   have been a natural and for them to ya [TS]

01:03:18   but they always seem to have to go back [TS]

01:03:19   for one more [TS]

01:03:20   which I'm okay with look for McLaren I [TS]

01:03:21   like the power of three I i like the [TS]

01:03:23   idea of Amy and Rory kind of like being [TS]

01:03:25   part time companions and that's fine but [TS]

01:03:27   you know I would have been happy if they [TS]

01:03:29   had said we're having another baby and [TS]

01:03:31   we're going to retire from the [TS]

01:03:33   time-travel doctor instead of it being [TS]

01:03:36   well angels or even know baby like I I [TS]

01:03:40   yeah I don't be a baby is another that's [TS]

01:03:41   just another gimmick and I i love the [TS]

01:03:44   idea is over to my children Erica people [TS]

01:03:48   do have babies and settle down it is a [TS]

01:03:50   thing that a lot of people do it seems [TS]

01:03:51   like a good excuse our doctor pound sand [TS]

01:03:54   look our last baby getting kind of [TS]

01:03:56   messed up because you so not this one [TS]

01:03:58   but see that's just it's an excuse i [TS]

01:04:00   like the idea that people would just [TS]

01:04:02   leave to choose to to to to do something [TS]

01:04:04   else that they could still be traveling [TS]

01:04:07   with a doctor in theory you know but [TS]

01:04:09   they just decide not you and then just [TS]

01:04:11   because somebody has chosen not to [TS]

01:04:13   travel with a doctor i think i think a [TS]

01:04:15   lot of times viewers and that the [TS]

01:04:17   showrunners are thinking about it in [TS]

01:04:19   that ok well if we have somebody who has [TS]

01:04:21   chosen to leave then well you know what [TS]

01:04:23   do we do the doctors gonna want to go [TS]

01:04:25   back and visit him [TS]

01:04:26   yeah but that can happen off-screen [TS]

01:04:27   exactly to create months artificial New [TS]

01:04:30   York boundary that the doctor can't get [TS]

01:04:32   in for some reasons exact but just so we [TS]

01:04:34   can't see them [TS]

01:04:35   alright heaven-sent heaven-sent were [TS]

01:04:38   into the two-parter now duh it's peter [TS]

01:04:40   capaldi one-man show live on stage one [TS]

01:04:42   night only [TS]

01:04:43   well many men like this is so this is [TS]

01:04:47   the doctor in his what we've discovered [TS]

01:04:49   is the confession dial he is being [TS]

01:04:51   essentially tortured and interrogated [TS]

01:04:55   and it's just him and a figure in a [TS]

01:04:59   cloak and at the very end of pep talk [TS]

01:05:01   from his sort of head Clara and I and I [TS]

01:05:08   don't know what I I you know I i loved [TS]

01:05:12   it because it is just a full-on Peter [TS]

01:05:14   Capaldi and I knew what was happening [TS]

01:05:17   going to happen actually ok [TS]

01:05:20   one of things is very clever about this [TS]

01:05:21   episode is I felt like I knew what was [TS]

01:05:23   going to happen from the beginning which [TS]

01:05:25   is that it was a loop and he done it [TS]

01:05:26   before and we get to the point where he [TS]

01:05:29   realizes it's the loop is and he's done [TS]

01:05:30   it before i go haha i figured it out and [TS]

01:05:33   now we're at the end and then the [TS]

01:05:35   episode goes on for another 15 minutes [TS]

01:05:37   so that part was kind of genius where [TS]

01:05:39   it's like and then he's going to dig a [TS]

01:05:42   little bit further into the wall of [TS]

01:05:44   harder than diamond and extend for that [TS]

01:05:48   hundreds of thousands and millions and [TS]

01:05:50   billions of years in order to get to the [TS]

01:05:52   end which was just a mind-blowing kind [TS]

01:05:55   of ending to an episode that I thought [TS]

01:05:57   was just fantastic because it's um it's [TS]

01:05:59   all Peter Capaldi and he's great and and [TS]

01:06:02   as a gimmick episode goes and this is [TS]

01:06:05   kind of a gimmick Episode what if we did [TS]

01:06:06   an episode with just the doctor in it [TS]

01:06:08   it's a I thought it was kind of [TS]

01:06:10   fantastic one of what does everybody [TS]

01:06:11   else think well I loved it i didn't even [TS]

01:06:14   try to think about the puzzle I just [TS]

01:06:16   enjoyed watching it in the moment and [TS]

01:06:19   and i would have loved it going back to [TS]

01:06:21   it and see it two and three times and [TS]

01:06:23   four times and I don't usually watch [TS]

01:06:24   these four times within like three days [TS]

01:06:27   that's this burrowed into my brain like [TS]

01:06:30   one of those bugs in Wrath of Khan [TS]

01:06:33   and it wouldn't like oh it's just I felt [TS]

01:06:34   like I was in a loop myself and i [TS]

01:06:36   watched it and was just swearing and [TS]

01:06:39   staggered and i watched it again and [TS]

01:06:41   again i think i've watched it five times [TS]

01:06:43   and I'm only forced will start you for [TS]

01:06:45   watching it more and then I read the [TS]

01:06:47   script when they posted the scripts and [TS]

01:06:49   scripts have some of the the missing [TS]

01:06:51   back story about why the words on the [TS]

01:06:53   wall you know obviously change that [TS]

01:06:54   drinks shooting or editing some things [TS]

01:06:57   that didn't make entire sense actually [TS]

01:06:58   suddenly make this feeling that last [TS]

01:07:00   little gap of like a part of the puzzle [TS]

01:07:02   was actually thought about but I don't [TS]

01:07:04   know if this is my favorite doctor who [TS]

01:07:06   but this is the one that most appeals to [TS]

01:07:08   the way my brain works and i just had [TS]

01:07:10   that same feeling of like watching at [TS]

01:07:12   the fifth time I still got more out of [TS]

01:07:14   it i think it's an incredible expression [TS]

01:07:16   of trouble expression and i miss comes [TS]

01:07:19   out in episode 12 but I'll say it here [TS]

01:07:21   first is that i was delighted that it [TS]

01:07:23   wasn't about romance so is delighted [TS]

01:07:25   that was about [TS]

01:07:26   yes doctors integrity and his feelings [TS]

01:07:29   for her that were his feeling of of his [TS]

01:07:32   duty of care as he puts it but that the [TS]

01:07:35   plotline wasn't like I'm so I mean the [TS]

01:07:37   Rose number ten on ten romance was real [TS]

01:07:40   and good i like that and had its own [TS]

01:07:42   integrity but this was about him being [TS]

01:07:45   the manager is the thing that is right [TS]

01:07:46   which is always so hard everyone else [TS]

01:07:47   walks away everyone else runs away and [TS]

01:07:49   he has that moment of crisis of [TS]

01:07:50   confidence in which he the head cleric [TS]

01:07:52   comes and talks to him and tell him to [TS]

01:07:55   get off his ass and then he's like okay [TS]

01:07:56   well I was 7,000 years let's try for [TS]

01:07:58   12,000 on so delighted i think this [TS]

01:08:02   well it'll still don't think didn't few [TS]

01:08:04   years to come and it probably looked at [TS]

01:08:07   probably one of if not the best talk to [TS]

01:08:09   episode ever made everyone has been [TS]

01:08:11   calling a one-man show i called a [TS]

01:08:12   five-person show that being Peter [TS]

01:08:13   Capaldi Steven Moffat Rachel talalay who [TS]

01:08:17   directed it Murray Murray gold whose [TS]

01:08:19   music I think has never been better and [TS]

01:08:21   will always want who edited it including [TS]

01:08:23   that three-and-a-half minute montage at [TS]

01:08:24   the very end of his beautiful i [TS]

01:08:27   mentioned the i mentioned that Chicago [TS]

01:08:30   TARDIS screening that i watch out i had [TS]

01:08:32   seen it i think twice that they like i [TS]

01:08:33   was at risk as of overseeing this [TS]

01:08:36   episode I Majesty it twice before they [TS]

01:08:37   actually even show it on the saturday [TS]

01:08:40   night at this convention and I thought [TS]

01:08:42   I'll just sit in the back check Twitter [TS]

01:08:44   and stuff is this thing that happens [TS]

01:08:45   probably gonna be sick of it and like I [TS]

01:08:47   think I cried two or three times during [TS]

01:08:50   the course of that like at the end of [TS]

01:08:52   that big montage when the doctor you [TS]

01:08:54   know we finally get to the whole wall is [TS]

01:08:56   this person I think that's one hell of a [TS]

01:08:58   burden [TS]

01:08:58   everybody just a plot a nicer oh and [TS]

01:09:01   then when the you know the cameras Wells [TS]

01:09:03   up and it's Gallifreyan there and I just [TS]

01:09:04   a huge amount of applause I mean I [TS]

01:09:07   remember seeing day the doctor in the [TS]

01:09:09   theater and thinking that was a magical [TS]

01:09:11   experience in this almost talk that it [TS]

01:09:13   was just watching that episode with a [TS]

01:09:17   crowd who just equally adored it and and [TS]

01:09:21   wasn't watching Sleep No More just made [TS]

01:09:25   it for a magic line and when we've been [TS]

01:09:28   lucky because on bringing free scarves [TS]

01:09:31   0507 i think it is a five-member I'm my [TS]

01:09:34   co-host Warren lives in Vancouver where [TS]

01:09:38   Rachel talent lives and so we actually [TS]

01:09:40   have sat down with her for about an hour [TS]

01:09:41   and a half and and talked about her [TS]

01:09:43   directing these two episodes and just [TS]

01:09:45   hearing how it was made and the German [TS]

01:09:48   Expressionism influences that went into [TS]

01:09:50   this thing I mean it's a masterpiece [TS]

01:09:52   I adored this this episode I i mean i [TS]

01:09:55   was so emotionally fragile after seeing [TS]

01:09:57   face the Raven I i had i had considered [TS]

01:10:00   just not watching Doctor Who for a while [TS]

01:10:02   because emotionally I just didn't think [TS]

01:10:04   I was ready for it [TS]

01:10:05   however I'm not a doctor who podcast so [TS]

01:10:07   that would have been kind of to [TS]

01:10:08   cultivate out so I was like all right I [TS]

01:10:09   will just suck it up and i will see [TS]

01:10:11   where it goes and and hopefully it [TS]

01:10:14   doesn't you know kill me again and I [TS]

01:10:15   think this was for me personally the [TS]

01:10:19   most perfect type of episode to come [TS]

01:10:21   after an experience like that because [TS]

01:10:23   you know it's it's not really [TS]

01:10:26   dwelling on Clara's deaths in a way that [TS]

01:10:29   feels like it's you know that pouring [TS]

01:10:32   salt on the wound it is it is it [TS]

01:10:34   supposed to be about the doctor kind of [TS]

01:10:36   dealing with Claire's death but in this [TS]

01:10:37   story he never gets to because he's [TS]

01:10:40   always just reliving the same point he [TS]

01:10:42   is having to deal with you know in front [TS]

01:10:44   of our eyes having to deal with the [TS]

01:10:46   freshness of her death over and over and [TS]

01:10:48   over again but i didn't have to do it [TS]

01:10:51   that way like I actually got to watch [TS]

01:10:54   this from an outsider's point of view so [TS]

01:10:55   it gave me time to sort of bring [TS]

01:10:58   and.and deal with her death emotionally [TS]

01:11:00   even in a way that the doctor wasn't [TS]

01:11:02   able to and it it was just it was so [TS]

01:11:05   clean and pristine and just the the [TS]

01:11:09   everything about it felt different [TS]

01:11:11   enough from Doctor Who that I almost [TS]

01:11:13   felt like I was sort of taking a little [TS]

01:11:15   bit of a break from Doctor Who and I [TS]

01:11:17   don't think this episode works with like [TS]

01:11:19   a Stephen said I don't think this [TS]

01:11:20   episode works with a different team [TS]

01:11:22   I think you needed all of those pieces i [TS]

01:11:24   almost never noticed the music and [TS]

01:11:26   Doctor Who and yet I thought it was [TS]

01:11:28   amazing here the first time the doctor [TS]

01:11:30   sees the ancient picture of Clara we get [TS]

01:11:34   Clara's theme played very lightly but [TS]

01:11:36   with this weird effect on it that almost [TS]

01:11:38   makes it sound kind of wobbly in [TS]

01:11:39   backwards or underwater or something it [TS]

01:11:41   was just they were there were so many [TS]

01:11:42   little touches like that and and I think [TS]

01:11:45   we've had some really wonderful actors [TS]

01:11:47   play the doctor over the years but i do [TS]

01:11:50   think that that Peter Capaldi is the [TS]

01:11:51   only person who could pull this off in [TS]

01:11:54   the way that it that it actually worked [TS]

01:11:56   it was it was just so fantastic and I [TS]

01:11:58   mean you know when I even did get little [TS]

01:12:00   glimpses of Clara throughout the episode [TS]

01:12:01   III didn't realize that actually was [TS]

01:12:04   Clara standing there when you get their [TS]

01:12:05   shots of her back [TS]

01:12:07   I assumed it was a mannequin or standing [TS]

01:12:09   but no this does really Jenna Coleman [TS]

01:12:11   was a standard I thought it was [TS]

01:12:13   obviously a standard and i found that [TS]

01:12:15   Thun I was like I don't know what I [TS]

01:12:16   don't know whether he was it actually [TS]

01:12:18   hurt because I felt like ya la said this [TS]

01:12:21   on radio and scar oh so true [TS]

01:12:23   yeah dad made originally shot some shots [TS]

01:12:25   with its stand and talalay just didn't [TS]

01:12:28   like the look at the shot so they got [TS]

01:12:30   Jenna Coleman to do it it's which is [TS]

01:12:31   which is weird because it is her but it [TS]

01:12:33   doesn't look like her which candidates [TS]

01:12:34   ready for using a different blaster [TS]

01:12:36   sometimes it's not so we're so cynical [TS]

01:12:38   about TV production that we think we [TS]

01:12:40   think I mean the way the episode is [TS]

01:12:42   structured you are meant to think that [TS]

01:12:44   of course she's not actually in it [TS]

01:12:46   because she left the show writing and [TS]

01:12:48   that is the beauty of it is because [TS]

01:12:51   you'd show her right [TS]

01:12:52   show her if it was her and so must not [TS]

01:12:55   be here so when you see her you you have [TS]

01:12:58   that oh she is here [TS]

01:13:00   yeah at the right moment where before [TS]

01:13:02   when she's just sort of facing the wall [TS]

01:13:04   you don't have that kind of emotional [TS]

01:13:06   attachment because it could be anybody [TS]

01:13:09   you know it's a representation of Clara [TS]

01:13:11   and [TS]

01:13:11   until you see your face and hear our [TS]

01:13:13   voice it's not that's what the moment [TS]

01:13:16   with Clara appears and maybe an [TS]

01:13:17   international it sits in serving the [TS]

01:13:20   abstract is a representation of just [TS]

01:13:22   companion [TS]

01:13:23   yes he always has a companion and and [TS]

01:13:25   yet if if she had shown her face any [TS]

01:13:28   earlier it would have distracted from [TS]

01:13:29   the rest of the episode even if she [TS]

01:13:31   didn't say anything even if the the [TS]

01:13:33   scenes were exactly the same otherwise [TS]

01:13:34   just the assumption that it's not really [TS]

01:13:38   her huh is what sets that apart if if [TS]

01:13:42   you had seen her face that would spoil [TS]

01:13:43   the effect i agree i think it's a nice [TS]

01:13:45   nice think I you know I look at the I [TS]

01:13:49   always thought that they were ridiculous [TS]

01:13:50   but the audience appreciation figures [TS]

01:13:52   for every episode that the BBC doesn't [TS]

01:13:54   this guy a kind of a a a poor score [TS]

01:13:58   I mean it's a good score but it's the [TS]

01:13:59   worst of the whole season and I I think [TS]

01:14:02   that's hilarious because everybody I've [TS]

01:14:04   talked to who watch doctor who looks at [TS]

01:14:06   this episode and says it's basically an [TS]

01:14:08   instant classic this is going to be an [TS]

01:14:09   episode we're going to be talking about [TS]

01:14:10   for years to come as a classic Doctor [TS]

01:14:13   Who episode so I don't know what the [TS]

01:14:16   people on the way I polar thinking but [TS]

01:14:19   it is i think i think it's a classic too [TS]

01:14:21   i think you know I i think the the [TS]

01:14:23   people who would have responded [TS]

01:14:24   favorably were too busy crying at the [TS]

01:14:26   room where the monsters are no monsters [TS]

01:14:28   and that's just a veil there's a month [TS]

01:14:30   stories here there is a monster it's [TS]

01:14:32   strange but I i had a I felt like this [TS]

01:14:35   actually solve the listen problem where [TS]

01:14:36   we never understood who was writing on [TS]

01:14:38   the chalkboard and listen and then it's [TS]

01:14:40   like oh it is braces my it's like ah [TS]

01:14:42   yeah I mean talk about the amazing [TS]

01:14:44   things that are in this episode we get [TS]

01:14:46   inside the doctors head like actually [TS]

01:14:48   inside the doctors head and his little [TS]

01:14:50   head TARDIS that he's got any speaking [TS]

01:14:51   singers out and and you know he likes to [TS]

01:14:54   have an audience as we mentioned earlier [TS]

01:14:56   and all we get to see all of that to [TS]

01:14:58   which is kind of amazing where he's [TS]

01:15:01   talking to essentially he needs a [TS]

01:15:03   companion he needs an audience and if he [TS]

01:15:05   doesn't have a companion he will create [TS]

01:15:07   a companion to talk to but he has to [TS]

01:15:08   have one that's i love the heat that he [TS]

01:15:11   just flat out says that you know that [TS]

01:15:12   he's trying to show off it actually uses [TS]

01:15:15   the phrase showing off and it and you're [TS]

01:15:17   right that that's just what i was going [TS]

01:15:19   to say is the idea that we're getting to [TS]

01:15:20   see inside the doctors head is amazing [TS]

01:15:23   and fascinating i mean back [TS]

01:15:24   the days in the wilderness years when [TS]

01:15:26   there was no Doctor Who on and there [TS]

01:15:28   were all these these novels The Doctor [TS]

01:15:30   Who new adventures one of the edicts [TS]

01:15:32   about those books was that the writers [TS]

01:15:34   were never allowed to write what the [TS]

01:15:36   doctor was thinking you only were able [TS]

01:15:38   to see we know the doctor from the [TS]

01:15:40   outside that was the way it had to be so [TS]

01:15:42   I think the idea that we're seeing [TS]

01:15:43   inside the doctors had been getting some [TS]

01:15:45   of his thoughts is even more [TS]

01:15:46   revolutionary than it would be on any [TS]

01:15:49   other show okay i want to point out the [TS]

01:15:52   the dolly zoom only because the bit at [TS]

01:15:55   the end with the doctors saying they're [TS]

01:15:57   he says it in and that this is that when [TS]

01:16:00   others he says a I now's the time I [TS]

01:16:03   remember each for every time this is [TS]

01:16:04   when I remember and they do that pull [TS]

01:16:07   out where the zoom thing i just read [TS]

01:16:08   this long article i think from Joe [TS]

01:16:10   rosenstiel appointed people to it about [TS]

01:16:12   the the history of the dollies and when [TS]

01:16:14   you get that the background gets further [TS]

01:16:16   away or closer together because they're [TS]

01:16:18   pulling the zoom while they moved the [TS]

01:16:20   dolly backwards and use it [TS]

01:16:22   you're assuming in while you're pulling [TS]

01:16:23   back jaws is a good example yeah yeah [TS]

01:16:26   Goodfellas has a really slow one yeah [TS]

01:16:28   and I was like exactly yeah and I was [TS]

01:16:30   like oh ok that's that great shot and it [TS]

01:16:32   was so perfect because that telescoping [TS]

01:16:34   of time it worked [TS]

01:16:35   yeah very effectively that the thing [TS]

01:16:38   that we don't we don't go into the [TS]

01:16:39   minutiae of the episode but the thing I [TS]

01:16:40   kept going back to was that they [TS]

01:16:42   constructed a puzzle with these things [TS]

01:16:44   that didn't make sense but felt right [TS]

01:16:47   that they didn't make sense usually just [TS]

01:16:48   feel like flaws but like why is shovel [TS]

01:16:50   into places [TS]

01:16:51   Wendy Barry I didn't get the Octagon [TS]

01:16:53   stone i cannot get through the Octagon [TS]

01:16:55   stone was the thing buried in the thing [TS]

01:16:57   that looks like a grave until they read [TS]

01:16:59   the script and well I think that when I [TS]

01:17:01   think I like second viewing I think I [TS]

01:17:02   know that's what that is [TS]

01:17:04   I just wasn't me this but it's clear [TS]

01:17:05   when you see it but it's a but i think [TS]

01:17:07   there are little bits and pieces of the [TS]

01:17:09   fact that there's a some kind of looping [TS]

01:17:11   problem with his clothing in the fire [TS]

01:17:12   but that's okay because within the [TS]

01:17:15   context makes sense it was easily be [TS]

01:17:17   closed for the next for the next Doctor [TS]

01:17:20   yes we don't know who prime that loop [TS]

01:17:21   and he says all the rooms regenerate but [TS]

01:17:24   i think it's okay that the rules are [TS]

01:17:25   slightly you know talk to the numbers [TS]

01:17:27   skulls doesn't exactly match as many as [TS]

01:17:29   would be there and so first and the [TS]

01:17:31   first time loop he just does the last [TS]

01:17:32   half of the episode naked [TS]

01:17:33   fortunately we didn't see that episode [TS]

01:17:35   so I was thinking or in a robe [TS]

01:17:37   where I hell-bent is the last episode [TS]

01:17:40   soda in a classic you know Steven Moffat [TS]

01:17:42   has this thing about like two partners [TS]

01:17:44   but don't feel like two partners and [TS]

01:17:46   this is that this is this is a doctor [TS]

01:17:48   returns to Gallifrey and it's all kind [TS]

01:17:53   of a scheme to save Clara by pulling her [TS]

01:17:55   out of time but he also we also deal [TS]

01:17:58   with this is in many ways a sequel to [TS]

01:18:00   the end of time and a little bit the [TS]

01:18:03   50th anniversary episode as well we get [TS]

01:18:05   a new Rassilon who is who is exiled as [TS]

01:18:10   well as the rest of the High Council [TS]

01:18:11   because the whole question of like those [TS]

01:18:13   awful people who did these awful things [TS]

01:18:15   during the time low time war and how do [TS]

01:18:17   you deal with them and the answer is [TS]

01:18:19   that the doctor basically sends them [TS]

01:18:20   away like it's not not bad and he tries [TS]

01:18:24   to save Clara by extracting her out of [TS]

01:18:26   time they the end and going down into [TS]

01:18:30   the depths of Gallifrey in order to kind [TS]

01:18:33   of avoid capture and they ultimately end [TS]

01:18:36   up at the end of that the restaurant at [TS]

01:18:38   the end of the universe with a shoulder [TS]

01:18:40   and uh and uh in in a delightful [TS]

01:18:45   surprise although maybe not surprising [TS]

01:18:48   from mr. everybody lives [TS]

01:18:50   Steven Moffat Clara and the shoulder [TS]

01:18:54   steal a TARDIS from Gallifrey themselves [TS]

01:18:57   essentially or Clara steals it with the [TS]

01:18:59   doctor and then Clara and shoulder [TS]

01:19:01   runoff in the with its broken chameleon [TS]

01:19:04   circuit to have their own adventures in [TS]

01:19:06   presently Big Finish audios to come and [TS]

01:19:10   I'm and we get a happy ending other than [TS]

01:19:13   the fact that if we get the reverse of [TS]

01:19:15   what happened with Donna which is in [TS]

01:19:18   this case the doctor huh that it tries [TS]

01:19:21   to do a Donna kind of thing to Clara and [TS]

01:19:24   she says no not allowed [TS]

01:19:26   you're not going to do that and they do [TS]

01:19:28   a kind of a packed on a 50-50 chance of [TS]

01:19:31   having their memory wiped and so the [TS]

01:19:33   doctor doesn't remember the details of [TS]

01:19:35   Clara at the end and that sort of the [TS]

01:19:36   little tragedy that is wrapped around [TS]

01:19:39   this episode so you know the universe is [TS]

01:19:42   never in peril by the way in this [TS]

01:19:44   episode other than I guess if the doctor [TS]

01:19:45   blew it up in order to save Clara but he [TS]

01:19:47   would have blown it up and it doesn't [TS]

01:19:49   feel as operatic and [TS]

01:19:51   some ways is the other episodes that so [TS]

01:19:53   many times that the universe has been [TS]

01:19:54   blown i know it's all of reality is [TS]

01:19:56   falling apart I was peeved that they [TS]

01:19:58   didn't show it initially I was like well [TS]

01:19:59   this seems like something missing and [TS]

01:20:00   there's like no it's actually a former [TS]

01:20:02   restraint that they don't need to show [TS]

01:20:04   you something just as many about the [TS]

01:20:05   characters it's that the ads about the [TS]

01:20:07   characters it it took me a couple [TS]

01:20:09   viewings to get over the fact that it [TS]

01:20:12   wasn't heaven-sent because i was still [TS]

01:20:14   basking in heaven yet when I saw this [TS]

01:20:16   and I didn't realize that ok this is [TS]

01:20:18   completely different than that that [TS]

01:20:20   episode I need to give it full do and i [TS]

01:20:23   loved it for what it was i I you know I [TS]

01:20:26   like how crazy weird it is i love how [TS]

01:20:28   capacity is basically silent for the [TS]

01:20:31   first 15 20 minutes of the episode the [TS]

01:20:33   counterpoint to heaven sent it is [TS]

01:20:35   individually finally sort of just shows [TS]

01:20:37   up and you know it says get off my [TS]

01:20:38   planet and everything and now that you [TS]

01:20:41   know I think there but he probably [TS]

01:20:44   talked about most this episode already [TS]

01:20:46   while talking about other episodes [TS]

01:20:48   earlier in the season but I just love [TS]

01:20:50   how you know everyone's giving sort of [TS]

01:20:54   it an agency at this point out that even [TS]

01:20:56   in retrospect everyone thought that the [TS]

01:20:58   Donna Noble finale was was tragic [TS]

01:21:01   analysis almost kind of aggravated [TS]

01:21:03   because she was never given a choice and [TS]

01:21:05   here Clara has a choice he takes control [TS]

01:21:07   he takes agency with her life as his [TS]

01:21:10   maisie williams as does um you know [TS]

01:21:13   basically the whole thing from right out [TS]

01:21:15   with run by superb female characters by [TS]

01:21:18   the end even though it started out the [TS]

01:21:20   story is male like the the general who [TS]

01:21:23   regenerates back in time that you know [TS]

01:21:26   we were talking about earlier about how [TS]

01:21:29   Steven Moffat likes the leash loose [TS]

01:21:31   threads and I think this is the biggest [TS]

01:21:33   loose thread that he's leaving basically [TS]

01:21:35   paving the way for a future show where [TS]

01:21:38   because i don't think it's going to be [TS]

01:21:39   cast another doctor during his time on [TS]

01:21:40   the show to basically say everyone it is [TS]

01:21:43   cool if we have a female doctor and if [TS]

01:21:46   we if the next person who follows me [TS]

01:21:48   doesn't have essentially created a [TS]

01:21:51   female doctor and clara who will travel [TS]

01:21:54   around the TARDIS on her own so you know [TS]

01:21:56   it kind of both kind of paved the way [TS]

01:21:58   and cushions the blow if there is no [TS]

01:22:01   female doctor [TS]

01:22:02   post Peter capacity and I think it's [TS]

01:22:05   just a marvelous way to just a wrap all [TS]

01:22:07   that up [TS]

01:22:07   yeah aight aight i liked it in my head I [TS]

01:22:10   still at especially the first time I [TS]

01:22:12   watched it in my heart was was not quite [TS]

01:22:15   over the the Clara thing and and I do [TS]

01:22:18   appreciate the fact that she does get to [TS]

01:22:20   go off and have more adventures and i [TS]

01:22:22   love the fact that she has agency and [TS]

01:22:25   gets to make the choice about you know [TS]

01:22:28   not having the doctor just erase her [TS]

01:22:29   memory without her being able to say no [TS]

01:22:31   to that but we always joke on Verity [TS]

01:22:33   linen and ever always saying that they [TS]

01:22:35   may think maybe Steven Moffat has when [TS]

01:22:37   he took over the show he made a [TS]

01:22:38   checklist of all of the things that [TS]

01:22:40   Russell T Davis did that he don't want [TS]

01:22:43   to say he needed to fix them but maybe [TS]

01:22:45   things that he thought were cool but was [TS]

01:22:47   like I would do it differently this way [TS]

01:22:49   because they're an awful lot of things [TS]

01:22:51   that have we've had some similarities [TS]

01:22:53   where he has had switched it up and [TS]

01:22:55   changed it and this is definitely a big [TS]

01:22:57   one [TS]

01:22:57   a lot of people had real trouble with [TS]

01:23:00   with Donna has you know but lack of [TS]

01:23:02   consent at what was what was done to her [TS]

01:23:05   and here we have a similar thing and I i [TS]

01:23:07   love the way the episode is structured [TS]

01:23:09   in that we don't know at the beginning [TS]

01:23:12   what happened like we we think that it's [TS]

01:23:15   Clara that has forgotten the doctor [TS]

01:23:17   right and I I totally bought into that [TS]

01:23:18   all the way until we get to the end and [TS]

01:23:20   then we find out know what's actually [TS]

01:23:22   the doctor that has forgotten about her [TS]

01:23:24   and I love that he has he still has his [TS]

01:23:27   memories of the things that they did [TS]

01:23:29   together in the places that they went so [TS]

01:23:31   it so it's not like he's missing a huge [TS]

01:23:33   chunk of time it's just all of the [TS]

01:23:35   pieces that are so emotionally resonant [TS]

01:23:38   and all of the pieces that are really [TS]

01:23:40   really related to her [TS]

01:23:42   that's what's gone and i think that's [TS]

01:23:44   that's just wow I got some really some [TS]

01:23:47   real talk about that cuz i went through [TS]

01:23:48   cancer treatment in 1998 and I had [TS]

01:23:51   chemotherapy for six months and I I [TS]

01:23:54   can't say that the writers and see them [TS]

01:23:56   often anyone else talk to people with [TS]

01:23:58   amnesia or gone through chemo but i have [TS]

01:24:01   I couldn't tell you how much i identify [TS]

01:24:03   with that I didn't lose my memory but [TS]

01:24:05   after having chemo I missing pages and [TS]

01:24:08   it's this feeling of I've described it [TS]

01:24:10   almost exactly the way he did in that [TS]

01:24:12   episode [TS]

01:24:12   of your walking down the street you pull [TS]

01:24:14   over and you know there was something [TS]

01:24:15   there and there's a hole in the ground [TS]

01:24:17   and you walk around it you feel it with [TS]

01:24:20   your tongue like an empty socket where a [TS]

01:24:21   tooth was and you can't for the life of [TS]

01:24:23   you remember what that was and I've met [TS]

01:24:25   people from before chemo and I remember [TS]

01:24:28   a lot of people were a lot of things [TS]

01:24:29   from my childhood but its pages torn out [TS]

01:24:31   of the book and there's people i know [TS]

01:24:32   from college who are sometimes upset [TS]

01:24:34   that I don't remember them and I just [TS]

01:24:36   don't have those memories are remember [TS]

01:24:37   the memory of them and not themselves so [TS]

01:24:39   I think they got that kind of residence [TS]

01:24:41   and was very personal for me but but [TS]

01:24:44   absolutely perfect [TS]

01:24:45   yeah I i it's it's it's a soft tragedy [TS]

01:24:48   it's a tragedy and yet he knows the lay [TS]

01:24:51   this is the lesson we learned early in [TS]

01:24:53   the season and set up with me right [TS]

01:24:55   which is she has the books and so she [TS]

01:24:59   knows that she's met Clara before but [TS]

01:25:01   she doesn't remember meeting Claire [TS]

01:25:03   before and that's what the doctors [TS]

01:25:04   memories like now is he knows that these [TS]

01:25:07   things happened but doesn't feel them [TS]

01:25:09   anymore and it's a tragedy but as [TS]

01:25:11   tragedies go you know there are worse [TS]

01:25:13   ones to have and and it is a great [TS]

01:25:15   reveal when Clara goes back in the in [TS]

01:25:17   the back of the diner and it's the [TS]

01:25:20   original tardis console and me is [TS]

01:25:22   waiting for her and then they take off [TS]

01:25:23   and leave the doctor behind with the [TS]

01:25:26   TARDIS it's a I got some questions about [TS]

01:25:29   the timeline of like he says that it did [TS]

01:25:32   it he can't find it but he obviously [TS]

01:25:34   seems to have just arrived because [TS]

01:25:35   they've got his TARDIS and it's a I'm a [TS]

01:25:38   little confused about some of the [TS]

01:25:39   details but I don't care it's fine it is [TS]

01:25:41   it's poetic and beautiful and it allows [TS]

01:25:43   me to have headcanon involving Amy and [TS]

01:25:46   Rory and river meeting that Smith inside [TS]

01:25:48   a diner that is actually Clara's TARDIS [TS]

01:25:51   yeah [TS]

01:25:52   oh my god right I'm sure is [TS]

01:25:54   intentionally beautiful right and and [TS]

01:25:57   it's a wonder what a great way to end we [TS]

01:25:59   get we get got kind of Gallifrey [TS]

01:26:00   resolved in a way we get Clara and me as [TS]

01:26:04   this alternate set of of doctors or [TS]

01:26:08   doctor and companion we we get to see a [TS]

01:26:11   TARDIS getting stolen from Gallifrey and [TS]

01:26:13   having its chameleon circuit broken we [TS]

01:26:15   get the beautiful redress Abby [TS]

01:26:18   recreation of the original TARDIS with [TS]

01:26:22   lots of details from William Hartnell [TS]

01:26:23   and Patrick Troughton just this just so [TS]

01:26:27   much it you know Steven Moffat shows in [TS]

01:26:30   this episode i think that there is [TS]

01:26:33   probably nobody on this earth who has [TS]

01:26:36   spent more time thinking about doctor [TS]

01:26:38   who said Stephen laughs that's ok and [TS]

01:26:41   andrew davis dammit he's gonna use all [TS]

01:26:43   of it we can also we can now have a [TS]

01:26:46   Clara and a shoulder go off for me go [TS]

01:26:49   off and meet up with the doctor's [TS]

01:26:50   daughter where they can pick up all of [TS]

01:26:53   the doctors and other doctors mother get [TS]

01:26:56   the and maybe I can never I'm sorry my [TS]

01:27:02   brain is preggers Ramona no come on home [TS]

01:27:05   run out for Ramona stupid for a little [TS]

01:27:07   bit on companion Ramona but if you like [TS]

01:27:10   we have all these in the river song of [TS]

01:27:11   course we have all these that time [TS]

01:27:13   ladies and Missy they could all have a [TS]

01:27:15   very interesting a trip together charges [TS]

01:27:17   big enough [TS]

01:27:18   yup locker room and yeah I I just again [TS]

01:27:21   I I i liked the shape of this where it [TS]

01:27:24   was on one level huge because it's the [TS]

01:27:27   end of the universe and Gallifrey all of [TS]

01:27:29   that and another another level [TS]

01:27:31   I really appreciated how this this [TS]

01:27:33   series ended with a quieter in a way and [TS]

01:27:37   and more limited in scope and more about [TS]

01:27:40   personal costs and people and and the [TS]

01:27:43   doctors loss of Clara and trying to get [TS]

01:27:45   her back and I like that I like that it [TS]

01:27:48   was not not every I'm not every season [TS]

01:27:50   needs to end with an existential threat [TS]

01:27:52   to universe for God's sake [TS]

01:27:54   yeah it was it was intimate if there [TS]

01:27:55   were a bunch of explosions and flying [TS]

01:27:57   Daleks and stuff it was intimate they're [TS]

01:27:59   sitting in armchairs at the end he's not [TS]

01:28:01   yeah I love that one of my favorite [TS]

01:28:02   lines you know as he rises [TS]

01:28:04   you're sitting inside and energy bubble [TS]

01:28:06   me how you [TS]

01:28:08   hi sustaining and she says brilliantly [TS]

01:28:10   that's not the douglas adams line [TS]

01:28:13   graphically yeah yeah I like that was [TS]

01:28:15   started as a Western that there will be [TS]

01:28:17   a so he tries alive it and is it looks [TS]

01:28:20   like Doc Holliday or somebody's we start [TS]

01:28:22   to put takes office nicer code you put [TS]

01:28:24   someone that's more severe [TS]

01:28:25   there's a there's a standard sheriff's [TS]

01:28:27   care come sure is coming in our outlaw [TS]

01:28:29   you know that kind of course I think the [TS]

01:28:32   scene with him eating the soup and all [TS]

01:28:33   those of townspeople in the dry lands [TS]

01:28:36   just staring at them yeah I don't know [TS]

01:28:38   where it came from it was fantastic [TS]

01:28:41   it was aight i like how I'm you know [TS]

01:28:43   they made the return of Gallifrey seem [TS]

01:28:45   like a big thing but then it didn't [TS]

01:28:47   become a big thing and I think had you [TS]

01:28:49   had the sort of you know because they [TS]

01:28:51   planted the seeds of finding the Yellow [TS]

01:28:52   Freight at the end of the day of the [TS]

01:28:53   doctor and he could have been like [TS]

01:28:56   always huge epic we're gonna go back to [TS]

01:28:58   the time when everything but no the only [TS]

01:29:00   reason the doctor wanted to find [TS]

01:29:02   Gallifrey again was basically so we [TS]

01:29:03   could save Clara yeah and that was it [TS]

01:29:06   and then you sort of left him hard to [TS]

01:29:07   their own devices again which I quite [TS]

01:29:09   likes we found it and then put it away [TS]

01:29:11   again so we don't necessarily need to [TS]

01:29:12   see it again right but it sits there to [TS]

01:29:15   be dealt with but it's not and we didn't [TS]

01:29:16   get into Time Lord politics all the [TS]

01:29:18   boring stuff right that is not [TS]

01:29:20   interesting about Gallifrey it's sort of [TS]

01:29:21   like it's a Gallifrey is interesting [TS]

01:29:24   because of what it means about the [TS]

01:29:26   doctor and who you know what the in this [TS]

01:29:28   case how they they say player and steal [TS]

01:29:30   a TARDIS but it's not the details of [TS]

01:29:32   Time Lord society beyond that I like the [TS]

01:29:34   people we saw Gallifrey where the the [TS]

01:29:37   poor people who live in the dryland yeah [TS]

01:29:39   millions which is where he grew up out [TS]

01:29:42   in that barn you know that's i love that [TS]

01:29:45   that that that's what we see and also [TS]

01:29:47   hit he has to drop his weapon and he has [TS]

01:29:49   a spoon [TS]

01:29:50   yeah that's possible robot of Sherwood [TS]

01:29:53   call back you'll ever get [TS]

01:29:55   I just like it's a place where people i [TS]

01:29:57   mean i love the come up into Rassilon it [TS]

01:29:59   that was just great and just the thing [TS]

01:30:01   where there's nobody important either no [TS]

01:30:02   witnesses like you noticed on the ship [TS]

01:30:05   showing up and it just all felt [TS]

01:30:06   legitimate i think it was interesting to [TS]

01:30:08   recontextualize him as you know the [TS]

01:30:10   former ward [TS]

01:30:11   after that you can have this seems like [TS]

01:30:13   he's a he's a war hero he its loyalty to [TS]

01:30:15   loyalty to the war doctor is absolutely [TS]

01:30:18   happening here and he saved the planet [TS]

01:30:20   oh you can save them all he did in [TS]

01:30:21   wrestling is cowering at the end of time [TS]

01:30:23   yeah that's cool surprising 50th [TS]

01:30:27   anniversary special residences that idea [TS]

01:30:30   i did not expect to get the season [TS]

01:30:32   alright uh before we before we wrap it [TS]

01:30:33   up we should talk about at least a [TS]

01:30:35   little bit there was a whole TV podcast [TS]

01:30:36   about two husbands of River Song [TS]

01:30:38   Erica you don't like River Song I i [TS]

01:30:43   finalized I like to river song better [TS]

01:30:45   the longer you know fit the longer we [TS]

01:30:48   went on I didn't like her at the [TS]

01:30:49   beginning a lector later but then we got [TS]

01:30:52   here I I think rivers it's cool that [TS]

01:30:56   there is a river character she just [TS]

01:30:59   she's not she's not for me and I never I [TS]

01:31:03   never liked the the sillier doctor who [TS]

01:31:06   episodes almost ever so so the Christmas [TS]

01:31:09   ones generally aren't up my alley either [TS]

01:31:12   so I I in theory kind of enjoyed this [TS]

01:31:16   like it was alright to watch I I i [TS]

01:31:19   always think that Steven Moffat writes [TS]

01:31:21   his it his couples as if they are in a [TS]

01:31:25   1940's ya squawkin man brightly but it [TS]

01:31:29   which i love i love the you know the [TS]

01:31:32   less screw of the screwball comedies [TS]

01:31:34   from from back in those days and yet i [TS]

01:31:36   don't really love it in Doctor Who so [TS]

01:31:38   well I thought that this was way better [TS]

01:31:40   chemistry between river in the doctor [TS]

01:31:42   then i ever got from from matt smith or [TS]

01:31:44   david tennant it just it was alright i [TS]

01:31:49   love i loved it i I loved it it it it [TS]

01:31:52   felt exactly the right level of silly [TS]

01:31:55   and fun and I thought like a good use of [TS]

01:31:59   river and a great interplay I I don't [TS]

01:32:01   you know Alex Kingston Peter Capaldi the [TS]

01:32:04   the age difference between Alex Kingston [TS]

01:32:06   and matt smith was very interesting but [TS]

01:32:08   Alex instant Peter probably i don't know [TS]

01:32:10   if it's that they're closer in age I [TS]

01:32:13   don't know if it's just Peter Capaldi [TS]

01:32:14   and alex kingston have a connection but [TS]

01:32:16   i just love them together and i love [TS]

01:32:18   that she didn't that he had the upper [TS]

01:32:20   hand on her because so much river song [TS]

01:32:22   story is that she has the upper hand on [TS]

01:32:23   him [TS]

01:32:24   and.and I love that uh that moment where [TS]

01:32:29   she realizes that it is him and amazing [TS]

01:32:32   and he cares about right [TS]

01:32:33   it's not just that that's him but it's [TS]

01:32:35   it's that that he wouldn't be standing [TS]

01:32:37   here next to me because he doesn't care [TS]

01:32:39   the sunset is I'm going to love you back [TS]

01:32:41   and it's like he wouldn't be [TS]

01:32:43   oh right because it's so it's that [TS]

01:32:45   simultaneous like this is him [TS]

01:32:47   it's been him all along and he does care [TS]

01:32:49   is that what he said your phone hello [TS]

01:32:52   school me perfectly [TS]

01:32:53   yeah yes that is the unhinged smile that [TS]

01:32:56   I think is that i would say this is the [TS]

01:32:58   through line from the doctor who cross [TS]

01:33:00   all the doctors it is they don't do this [TS]

01:33:02   but I think it's a through line is that [TS]

01:33:04   the doctor can look completely unhinged [TS]

01:33:06   and Tom Baker had him stay in and you [TS]

01:33:10   can see p christopher eccleston there [TS]

01:33:12   are times that he would just be saying [TS]

01:33:13   something and his face would light up [TS]

01:33:15   you like oh my that person is off the [TS]

01:33:18   like practically off the rocker and i [TS]

01:33:20   think peter capaldi has a really [TS]

01:33:22   devilish smile that came out a few times [TS]

01:33:24   this episode that just hit that right on [TS]

01:33:26   the head [TS]

01:33:27   I liked it but I mean anyway after the [TS]

01:33:31   heaviness of series 9 they kind of [TS]

01:33:33   needed and they do they needed sort of a [TS]

01:33:35   lighter screwball kind of thing was [TS]

01:33:37   going to go over at 515 as opposed to [TS]

01:33:39   eight or 830 as most of Syria and went [TS]

01:33:42   out but knowing all that and then [TS]

01:33:43   honestly for the first time ever in my [TS]

01:33:46   life I think Star Wars and doctor who [TS]

01:33:48   actually intersected and competed for my [TS]

01:33:50   infections and so I was I was so in star [TS]

01:33:54   wars the force awakens bowed having seen [TS]

01:33:57   I think twice maybe three times before [TS]

01:34:00   Christmas I can remember now [TS]

01:34:01   and so I was gonna like high so much [TS]

01:34:05   talk to who now and so I kind of like [TS]

01:34:06   kind of when I feel like I didn't give [TS]

01:34:08   it its its its full attention [TS]

01:34:11   the first time I saw something i watched [TS]

01:34:13   three or four times and unlike the more [TS]

01:34:14   each time but I you know Star Wars [TS]

01:34:17   that's all star star wars on the [TS]

01:34:18   Christmas this year for me I think it's [TS]

01:34:21   I think timing really was against it in [TS]

01:34:23   in two ways because I having seen star [TS]

01:34:25   wars with Stephen every time and being [TS]

01:34:26   so wrapped up in it I felt that same way [TS]

01:34:28   about it but also I think the fact that [TS]

01:34:30   the series ended so close to Christmas [TS]

01:34:33   Joe didn't give us that same amount of [TS]

01:34:35   breathing room that were used to have [TS]

01:34:37   angry so I was still not only just in [TS]

01:34:40   Star Wars mode but I was still kind of [TS]

01:34:41   in that emotional place that series 9 [TS]

01:34:44   had left me and I didn't have enough [TS]

01:34:46   time to chew it over and let it all [TS]

01:34:48   digest quite right [TS]

01:34:49   like I like you normally do so yeah SEI [TS]

01:34:53   I spent an hour with you [TS]

01:34:55   christmas night talking about how I ever [TS]

01:34:56   loved it so i don't i don't have to go [TS]

01:34:59   on and on that you know go listen to the [TS]

01:35:01   TV episode III will say as much as I [TS]

01:35:04   enjoyed star wars and I really did enjoy [TS]

01:35:05   Star Wars I've only seen that once I've [TS]

01:35:08   already seen this about three times just [TS]

01:35:10   because so much fun it's fun and [TS]

01:35:12   pointing at the end though I think a lot [TS]

01:35:14   of people that I've yeah we talked about [TS]

01:35:16   the last 15-20 minutes when they're in [TS]

01:35:17   the restaurant and everything and having [TS]

01:35:19   those conversations and that's when it [TS]

01:35:20   really gets good [TS]

01:35:21   oh yeah that that's the capper for it [TS]

01:35:23   yeah I like I I mean we weave anybody [TS]

01:35:27   who's been talking about Doctor Who for [TS]

01:35:28   the last few years knows that the the [TS]

01:35:30   Christmas special has a specific job to [TS]

01:35:32   do need to be broad people are gonna [TS]

01:35:35   watch that episode in in Britain that [TS]

01:35:37   are not going to watch doctor who [TS]

01:35:38   otherwise they're gonna watch that one [TS]

01:35:40   so you want to be a rope you wanted to [TS]

01:35:42   be fun you want to have action you want [TS]

01:35:44   to not be too heavy and i think that i [TS]

01:35:47   think it does all of those things [TS]

01:35:49   delightfully well and then I think their [TS]

01:35:51   payoffs for people who are who have been [TS]

01:35:53   watching the show all along and and then [TS]

01:35:56   it ends it there's wackiness and then it [TS]

01:35:58   ends with something that's actually kind [TS]

01:36:00   of touching and beautiful and and and so [TS]

01:36:03   yeah it's all it's all good the only [TS]

01:36:04   problem I have with it is that by [TS]

01:36:06   decisively saying that she hasn't seen [TS]

01:36:09   Peter Capaldi's doctor before it makes [TS]

01:36:12   it very difficult for us to calculate [TS]

01:36:14   out how to get more things even if its [TS]

01:36:17   audio stories later with that with alex [TS]

01:36:21   kingston and Peter Capaldi who are so [TS]

01:36:22   great together but hey that's fine [TS]

01:36:24   they got that they got the whatever it [TS]

01:36:26   is they have 24 years 24 years of not [TS]

01:36:29   have adventures [TS]

01:36:30   also he said doesn't believe don't [TS]

01:36:32   believe all myths basically so their [TS]

01:36:33   stories about us and so she may be [TS]

01:36:36   misstating precisely the timeline in its [TS]

01:36:39   true the forest episode i also really is [TS]

01:36:42   all the Christmas episode so we have [TS]

01:36:43   giant crashing spaceships or flying [TS]

01:36:46   sharks i guess or other options too but [TS]

01:36:47   that well the flying shark episode all [TS]

01:36:50   so had a crashing space oh my gosh [TS]

01:36:52   exactly should we just never craft [TS]

01:36:54   stated there was a murderous christmas [TS]

01:36:56   tree episode but that had a giant [TS]

01:36:58   spaceship that you didn't shot out of [TS]

01:37:00   the sky your cotton this is better than [TS]

01:37:03   I thought this is better than raccoon [TS]

01:37:05   merry christmas everybody can get dr. [TS]

01:37:09   the winner of the Wardrobe it wasn't a [TS]

01:37:10   crushing spaceship is a crashing plane [TS]

01:37:12   yeah they're really good with different [TS]

01:37:13   so uh where were basically the end so i [TS]

01:37:17   wanted i would ask the difficult [TS]

01:37:18   questions now which is where do you [TS]

01:37:19   place this season and in terms of [TS]

01:37:21   success or failure and compared to [TS]

01:37:22   previous seasons I'm kind of curious for [TS]

01:37:24   a final kind of verdict on that front [TS]

01:37:27   Stephen what do you wear what would you [TS]

01:37:28   rank series 9 I think it's undoubtedly [TS]

01:37:33   the best series since it came back for [TS]

01:37:35   me it mile it might even be the best [TS]

01:37:38   season of Top true ever huh [TS]

01:37:41   because this is like 12 episode you [TS]

01:37:43   think about is 26 episodes worth of in [TS]

01:37:47   the old actually yeah 26 worth in the [TS]

01:37:48   olden days i'm not too sure that the [TS]

01:37:51   doctor who's ever had a solid [TS]

01:37:53   front-to-back season in its history [TS]

01:37:55   since maybe last year which i thought [TS]

01:37:57   was equally as good to life the app I [TS]

01:37:59   think we're in a golden age and i watch [TS]

01:38:01   the show for over 30 years saying that [TS]

01:38:03   so yeah well hi grace [TS]

01:38:05   Erica what's your series 9 overall [TS]

01:38:07   verdict yeah i'm right there with [TS]

01:38:09   Stephen I mean you did despite the [TS]

01:38:11   emotional issues I have with with the [TS]

01:38:12   end of Clara I can still look I can [TS]

01:38:15   still remove myself from the equation [TS]

01:38:16   and and just look at it a little bit [TS]

01:38:18   more objectively and I do think that it [TS]

01:38:20   is for me easily easily the best so that [TS]

01:38:23   we've had since the since i came back i [TS]

01:38:25   love series 8 but I think for me it's [TS]

01:38:28   it's it's a much easier called the thing [TS]

01:38:29   that I like this one better i still [TS]

01:38:31   think overall season 16 might be my [TS]

01:38:34   favorite because I just love the key to [TS]

01:38:36   time ya bits and pieces but if we're [TS]

01:38:39   going like strictly quality i still have [TS]

01:38:42   to say that this one is better because [TS]

01:38:44   as much as I love series 16 season 16 [TS]

01:38:47   it's um it's a little janky in place [TS]

01:38:49   it's open down yeah David verdict [TS]

01:38:52   I'm with them uh [TS]

01:38:55   I i think the Capaldi running in general [TS]

01:38:58   has been more consistent than anything [TS]

01:39:02   in the new series again front-to-back [TS]

01:39:04   yeah and and this season i mean you know [TS]

01:39:08   i had quibbles with things here and [TS]

01:39:10   there but just for overall entertainment [TS]

01:39:15   value and overall not wanting to nitpick [TS]

01:39:19   them to death and and then just enjoying [TS]

01:39:23   so many of the little tiny bits of [TS]

01:39:25   episodes even the ones that weren't [TS]

01:39:27   perfect it's just it's been really [TS]

01:39:30   really good this year [TS]

01:39:32   Glenn I gonna be boring and generally [TS]

01:39:36   agree i think i watched about fifty [TS]

01:39:38   percent of the of the original who [TS]

01:39:41   series and i watched everything that's [TS]

01:39:43   come out since the eccleston reboot and [TS]

01:39:47   I love some episodes better and there's [TS]

01:39:50   some parts of series and arcs better but [TS]

01:39:52   i thought this was fantastic and I have [TS]

01:39:54   my doubts during the season so that was [TS]

01:39:56   good it was very solid it was it was a [TS]

01:39:58   very consistent season and watchable and [TS]

01:40:01   then the last three episodes destroyed [TS]

01:40:03   because I mean I've never watched any [TS]

01:40:04   episode as much as having been or [TS]

01:40:06   haven't sent yet I don't think about [TS]

01:40:09   five times and i'll probably watch it [TS]

01:40:10   anymore so I feel like they did an [TS]

01:40:12   excellent job overall and I I wonder the [TS]

01:40:16   only thing I would say is i'm curious [TS]

01:40:18   how people who are not doctor who fans [TS]

01:40:20   coming into the season saw it [TS]

01:40:22   there's no good way to know that but I [TS]

01:40:23   thought for somebody like putting all of [TS]

01:40:26   us who have back history with it [TS]

01:40:28   I certainly appreciate it greatly for [TS]

01:40:31   other reasons thanks even talking about [TS]

01:40:33   them on his page [TS]

01:40:35   well and and things that were that they [TS]

01:40:38   were kind of questionable early on or [TS]

01:40:39   that you went i don't know where this is [TS]

01:40:41   going or I don't know if they're going [TS]

01:40:42   to pick this up when they did close the [TS]

01:40:44   circuit at the end it all tied together [TS]

01:40:46   carefully and it wasn't it wasn't like [TS]

01:40:49   the story arcs where it's like building [TS]

01:40:51   to some giant big climactic you know [TS]

01:40:53   university-wide conflagration and saving [TS]

01:40:56   the University of have said this on [TS]

01:40:57   other shows about other things i'm tired [TS]

01:41:00   of everything is exploding and we have [TS]

01:41:02   to save the universe this really did it [TS]

01:41:05   it took this intimate story by the end [TS]

01:41:08   and it was about the characters that we [TS]

01:41:10   were worried about it had nothing to do [TS]

01:41:12   with the whole universe of the whole [TS]

01:41:14   planet or whatever Jason where do you [TS]

01:41:15   place it thanks for asking [TS]

01:41:18   I was just going to say so comedians I [TS]

01:41:20   love but uh I I ok I'm going to be a [TS]

01:41:24   little bit of a dissenter I think that [TS]

01:41:26   series 8 was last year was better [TS]

01:41:28   overall in terms of consistency and then [TS]

01:41:31   had a disappointing ending whereas I [TS]

01:41:33   think this season was although fairly [TS]

01:41:36   consistent and good i think i felt not [TS]

01:41:40   as delighted by it as i did last season [TS]

01:41:43   but it had such a great ending I i [TS]

01:41:46   really love the last two episodes and [TS]

01:41:49   really the last three episodes I felt [TS]

01:41:51   like this just as a seasoned it it [TS]

01:41:53   wrapped up in a more appealing way so [TS]

01:41:57   but you know if I had to score i would [TS]

01:41:59   break [TS]

01:42:00   Peter Capaldi's first year higher than [TS]

01:42:02   this slightly but i think it's close and [TS]

01:42:04   then the only other modern series that i [TS]

01:42:07   would throw in there is this is the [TS]

01:42:09   first david tennant series to that i [TS]

01:42:11   have i have a great fondness for its [TS]

01:42:13   hard [TS]

01:42:14   we're at the point with modern Doctor [TS]

01:42:15   Who where it's almost hard to call back [TS]

01:42:17   that far because the show has changed [TS]

01:42:19   and the way it looks old [TS]

01:42:22   russell t davies Sarah doctor who is [TS]

01:42:24   starting to feel like old doctor who in [TS]

01:42:26   a way that it wasn't at the time but [TS]

01:42:29   it's very different now than it was then [TS]

01:42:30   so it's kind of hard to compare them but [TS]

01:42:32   that has some of my favorite season [TS]

01:42:34   series two of the new doctor who has [TS]

01:42:36   some of my very favorite episodes in it [TS]

01:42:38   so you're here Herr is there but which [TS]

01:42:41   is not that good and the Indian flavor [TS]

01:42:43   which not good but discipline themselves [TS]

01:42:44   into more than good [TS]

01:42:46   and yet the height i didn't i think that [TS]

01:42:48   i was high Capaldi Capaldi with with the [TS]

01:42:51   exception of heaven sent [TS]

01:42:55   i would say the Capaldi era is [TS]

01:42:56   interesting because I feel like it's way [TS]

01:42:58   more consistent than doctor has been a [TS]

01:43:00   long time but the heights don't for [TS]

01:43:04   whatever reason don't feel quite as high [TS]

01:43:06   with the exception of having set is that [TS]

01:43:09   maybe because we don't have the lowest [TS]

01:43:10   to compare them to it's possible it is [TS]

01:43:13   possible [TS]

01:43:14   they're taking their medication the [TS]

01:43:15   season and the episodes all evened out [TS]

01:43:18   yeah yeah yeah but I'm not gonna I'm not [TS]

01:43:20   gonna complain about i think it's been a [TS]

01:43:21   good season I think it's been very [TS]

01:43:22   consistent [TS]

01:43:23   like I said I think consistency in the [TS]

01:43:25   Capaldi era even even the episodes that [TS]

01:43:28   are kind of clunkers I can usually find [TS]

01:43:30   something that I like about them like [TS]

01:43:31   sleep no more which i think is very [TS]

01:43:33   stylish even though i think it makes no [TS]

01:43:34   sense or kill the moon last year which I [TS]

01:43:36   really didn't like and yet I think about [TS]

01:43:39   it and I think it's very interesting and [TS]

01:43:41   I just think it failed but i think it's [TS]

01:43:43   interesting in how it failed so that's [TS]

01:43:45   not a bad thing to be at that level of [TS]

01:43:47   consistency so that you know that's my [TS]

01:43:49   that's my feeling about it but it's good [TS]

01:43:51   I you know I see stories we this work [TS]

01:43:54   we're back to where we started with this [TS]

01:43:55   episode which is talking about Windows [TS]

01:43:57   doctor who come back again and so we [TS]

01:43:59   don't know is it [TS]

01:44:00   are we not going to do doctor-who for a [TS]

01:44:02   year or is there going to be a short run [TS]

01:44:04   of episodes in the fall file followed by [TS]

01:44:05   more episodes in the spring we just [TS]

01:44:07   don't know [TS]

01:44:07   and then we also don't know of course [TS]

01:44:09   we're entering the third full series of [TS]

01:44:11   a doctor in Peter capacity and that's [TS]

01:44:13   frightening because generally that's the [TS]

01:44:16   last series for a doctor is the third in [TS]

01:44:18   the modern series that's been the kind [TS]

01:44:20   of the rule [TS]

01:44:21   David Tennant and matt smith both did [TS]

01:44:24   three full seasons david tennant also [TS]

01:44:26   did some specials so I because i have to [TS]

01:44:29   say and this always happens but i gotta [TS]

01:44:32   say i don't want him to go [TS]

01:44:33   I want him I want Peter Capaldi to stick [TS]

01:44:36   around for a little while because I feel [TS]

01:44:37   like he has so much to offer the series [TS]

01:44:40   and i would much rather i know it makes [TS]

01:44:42   sense to change the showrunner have [TS]

01:44:44   steven moffat finally kind of hang it up [TS]

01:44:45   and change the doctor at the same time [TS]

01:44:47   that's what happened with with Russell T [TS]

01:44:49   davis at the same time I kind of don't [TS]

01:44:51   want to see it happen i kinda wanna [TS]

01:44:53   definitely go back into classic Doctor [TS]

01:44:55   Who I kind of want that last Tom Baker [TS]

01:44:57   season with Peter Capaldi where the show [TS]

01:44:59   changes but the doctor at least is kind [TS]

01:45:02   of the same for a year because i want [TS]

01:45:03   more Peter Capaldi three years is not [TS]

01:45:05   enough for me i hope i hope we don't [TS]

01:45:07   have hope we're not two-thirds through [TS]

01:45:10   his era because I'm not ready to say [TS]

01:45:12   goodbye to pick ability he is great [TS]

01:45:14   yes same here i will willingly take a [TS]

01:45:17   year off from Doctor Who's it appears [TS]

01:45:19   we're doing now in order to extend Peter [TS]

01:45:21   Capaldi's air-crane Agnes disaster you [TS]

01:45:24   know even if they cancel the show for [TS]

01:45:26   five years and Peter Capaldi is still [TS]

01:45:27   technically the current doctor even [TS]

01:45:30   though he regenerates at the end of that [TS]

01:45:31   last episode as long as we can have him [TS]

01:45:34   is the current doctor even when he's not [TS]

01:45:36   even on air I can take that as a win [TS]

01:45:39   I feel like at this point that the [TS]

01:45:40   Christmas special having been on every [TS]

01:45:42   year since 2005 that even if they decide [TS]

01:45:46   not to Doctor Who for a while they're [TS]

01:45:48   still going to do an episode for your [TS]

01:45:49   Christmas yeah how could they not at [TS]

01:45:52   this point how could they not [TS]

01:45:53   but yeah i agree with you completely [TS]

01:45:56   let's keep your pelvic he's a treasure [TS]

01:45:59   he's good he not only is he a fan and we [TS]

01:46:02   know that he's a fan but he is you eat [TS]

01:46:04   you could not I think perhaps because he [TS]

01:46:08   is a fan to get an actor of his caliber [TS]

01:46:11   yeah mhm I this chance is not going to [TS]

01:46:14   come around again this is a very special [TS]

01:46:16   moment let's keep this guy keep them i [TS]

01:46:19   know i'm i remember hearing i mean the [TS]

01:46:21   the Matt Smith era was you know hit and [TS]

01:46:24   miss i think you in regards to scripting [TS]

01:46:26   and I think it's mostly because they [TS]

01:46:27   didn't really have an executive producer [TS]

01:46:30   like to sort of keep the reins on things [TS]

01:46:33   and they got a guy called Brian [TS]

01:46:34   mentioned who's been in that position [TS]

01:46:35   for the past two years and it's really [TS]

01:46:38   sort of like firms everything up i [TS]

01:46:40   remember hearing scuttlebutt in the in [TS]

01:46:43   you know leading into Peter Cappelli [TS]

01:46:44   that this season is gonna be much better [TS]

01:46:46   because you know no offense to Matt [TS]

01:46:48   Smith but he's just a young actor we [TS]

01:46:50   can't treat Peter Capaldi the same way [TS]

01:46:54   that we treated matt smith and so I I [TS]

01:46:57   had an inkling early on that I think [TS]

01:46:58   they were really like oh my god we got [TS]

01:47:00   Peter Capaldi we have two impressive [TS]

01:47:01   haha [TS]

01:47:03   and so I think the quality Walker he has [TS]

01:47:05   an Oscar everybody like brushes the [TS]

01:47:07   crumbs off their shirts and sucks in [TS]

01:47:09   their gut instincts yes sir [TS]

01:47:11   really you know yeah he's not even that [TS]

01:47:14   it's an Oscar for acting it's for [TS]

01:47:15   directing he knows what he's doing he [TS]

01:47:18   knows what is yelling no [TS]

01:47:20   yeah well onward somewhere it is really [TS]

01:47:23   i was there i was thinking about also [TS]

01:47:25   how it disconcerting it is that the the [TS]

01:47:27   Christmas special doesn't end with the [TS]

01:47:30   doctor will return in the middle of this [TS]

01:47:32   episode it's not even named well this [TS]

01:47:35   has been a lot of fun i hope we can [TS]

01:47:36   reconvene before too long to talk about [TS]

01:47:39   the next season of doctor but who knows [TS]

01:47:41   when that will be I would like to thank [TS]

01:47:43   my guests for talking about [TS]

01:47:45   this season though it's good that we got [TS]

01:47:46   to talk about it now that has come and [TS]

01:47:48   gone and now we're in the wilderness [TS]

01:47:49   that many wilderness of between seasons [TS]

01:47:53   of doctor who with not even knowing when [TS]

01:47:55   it will be coming back and Laura thank [TS]

01:47:57   you for being here thank you i'm just [TS]

01:47:59   gonna like flip and come back to the [TS]

01:48:02   restaurant in a few years [TS]

01:48:03   sure sure it'll still be nighttime we'll [TS]

01:48:06   we'll have dinner nights are long on [TS]

01:48:08   this planet had to go and Fleischmann [TS]

01:48:10   thank you for being here you you supply [TS]

01:48:12   the the best of all the headcanon I [TS]

01:48:16   apparently think about this maybe a [TS]

01:48:19   little too much but you know as I look [TS]

01:48:20   at the sky tonight by the positions of [TS]

01:48:22   stars i think we've been on this podcast [TS]

01:48:23   for over two billion years quite [TS]

01:48:26   possible and i remember it all [TS]

01:48:28   Erica and signed Thank You of course [TS]

01:48:30   people can listen to you talk about [TS]

01:48:31   Doctor Who every week more or less on [TS]

01:48:34   Verity yes indeed yeah if if you're a [TS]

01:48:37   doctor who fan out there and and [TS]

01:48:38   jonesing for more doctor who stuff and [TS]

01:48:40   then come and rewatch series 1 and [TS]

01:48:42   season one with us this year I set and [TS]

01:48:45   and lazy doctor who know and well i was [TS]

01:48:47   going to say now sin and eric and [TS]

01:48:49   Stephen together host lazy doctor who on [TS]

01:48:52   the uncomfortable network where you [TS]

01:48:54   totally took control and owned New [TS]

01:48:56   Year's Eve life that was my shine that [TS]

01:49:01   was that was beautiful [TS]

01:49:03   that was a beautiful thing they're [TS]

01:49:05   watching if you haven't listened to lazy [TS]

01:49:07   doctor who Eric and Stephen are watching [TS]

01:49:09   every episode of the original classic [TS]

01:49:11   Doctor Who from the very beginning and [TS]

01:49:14   and podcasting about whenever because [TS]

01:49:16   it's casual like that that's why it's [TS]

01:49:17   called please doctor who is writing the [TS]

01:49:20   name people don't complain it's in the [TS]

01:49:22   name Steven Japan ski you are one of the [TS]

01:49:25   hosts of Radio Free Skaro everybody's [TS]

01:49:27   the most like the most famous doctor who [TS]

01:49:30   podcast i keep I keep thinking and so [TS]

01:49:33   what I have to say to you is may the [TS]

01:49:34   force be with you [TS]

01:49:36   I with all this talk about Star Trek and [TS]

01:49:40   Star Trek Star Wars day long and prosper [TS]

01:49:43   this star wars and and series 9 has [TS]

01:49:46   whetted my appetite has whetted my [TS]

01:49:47   appetite and it saddens me that I have [TS]

01:49:50   to wait the entire year until the next [TS]

01:49:52   star wars movie and doctor who christmas [TS]

01:49:55   special which will air within a week of [TS]

01:49:57   each other in [TS]

01:49:57   late December life in 2016 is not we'll [TS]

01:50:00   get a new way to get a new star wars [TS]

01:50:02   movie before we get a new episode of [TS]

01:50:03   doctor who had will get a wash up and [TS]

01:50:06   we'll get a new star wars holiday [TS]

01:50:07   special about that i will not go to the [TS]

01:50:11   second level with you go and Doctor Who [TS]

01:50:13   life day special i would watch that in a [TS]

01:50:15   heartbeat depending we may even get the [TS]

01:50:18   new star trek series before a oh my god [TS]

01:50:21   now that I think about it the lobby [TS]

01:50:22   summer oh my well thanks everybody for [TS]

01:50:25   listening just a reminder to Youkilis [TS]

01:50:26   disparity and and listen to erykah and a [TS]

01:50:28   an amazing cast of people talking about [TS]

01:50:30   Doctor Who Radio Free Skaro Stephen and [TS]

01:50:33   his two pals on that one is great when [TS]

01:50:35   lazy doctor who of course and the TV [TS]

01:50:37   podcast has all of our episode by [TS]

01:50:39   episode things where it's me and various [TS]

01:50:41   guests including only in all these [TS]

01:50:43   people except Stephen who he's always [TS]

01:50:45   already scarce exactly when I fight I [TS]

01:50:47   talked enough about Doctor Who exactly [TS]

01:50:49   so there's a lot of doctor who is what [TS]

01:50:50   we're saying it there you want to listen [TS]

01:50:51   to more pockets but doctor who but [TS]

01:50:52   that's the end of this one so thanks to [TS]

01:50:54   everyone out there for listening to this [TS]

01:50:56   episode of income people will see you [TS]

01:50:58   next time [TS]

01:51:10   [Music] [TS]