The Talk Show

268: ‘With Ham I’d Be Better’ With Dave Mark


00:00:00   Oh my god, so this is the weirdness of podcasting number one

00:00:04   It's the weirdness of the erratic schedule of the talk show where I just published a show with moltz yesterday

00:00:10   But I got to get another October show in and and there's so much more to talk about that

00:00:13   It's not just you know the month. It's actually a lot of topics but

00:00:17   When moltz and I talked I think the Nats backs were getting against the wall now, it's tied three to three

00:00:25   We're talking just hours before

00:00:29   game seven of the World Series between your beloved Nationals and the

00:00:34   Houston

00:00:38   Astros who might be the best team in baseball

00:00:41   Yankees aside, okay, you know Astros had the best record and the Astros beat the Yankees. So, you know fair's fair

00:00:48   So, I don't know if you're aware of this

00:00:52   But my I was just in Houston for the entire time that the Nationals are playing in in DC

00:00:58   No, I didn't know that. Yeah, my whole family's in in Texas

00:01:01   So I was I watched all the games

00:01:04   But I didn't get to go to any of them and they went to the games when they were in Houston

00:01:09   So they'll they'll probably be there tonight

00:01:11   You don't sound like you're from Texas

00:01:13   I'm not my you know, it's a it's a broad family all over the country like that

00:01:19   My you know, we come from immigrants and they settled in different places like that

00:01:23   Yeah, my cousin Rob is a couple years older than me grew up in

00:01:27   Northern New Jersey, you know sort of the greater suburban New York area

00:01:31   And I think when he was around 21 22 or so moved to Dallas and

00:01:37   Lived there for quite a while and very quickly picked picked up a Texas accent

00:01:44   That's kind of funny. I I grew I was born in in the Bronx if you can believe it

00:01:49   I can hear that a little bit

00:01:52   Interesting interesting I get so much

00:01:56   People, you know say I don't hear an accent from you, but then I'll say dog. Yeah

00:02:00   All of a sudden you sound like Susan Waldman the Yankees

00:02:03   Radio announcer

00:02:07   Everybody I'm sure people who are listening to the show are familiar with your work

00:02:11   I linked to you probably at least once a week, but if you're not Dave is

00:02:14   Do you even have a title or no? You're just you're just probably

00:02:18   Executive editor of the loop if that's a thing. Yeah

00:02:24   When I used to work at bare-bones software

00:02:26   20 years ago is a long time ago if you think about it, I first got there rich seagull the founder

00:02:32   You know makers of BB edit

00:02:34   He had business cards

00:02:37   And Jim Korea who's now he's moved on he's at the he's at the Omni group now good friend of mine

00:02:43   No developer software developer. I

00:02:45   Think Jim now works mostly on Omni focus very popular app

00:02:50   But anyway when I was at bare-bones

00:02:54   Jim's business cards said Jim Korea guy who does all the work and and rich riches said

00:03:01   Rich Segal who takes all the credit

00:03:04   Maybe you and Jim need cards like that as well. Yeah, that's where I'm going. I got it. I got to work on that

00:03:13   Yeah, anyway, good luck tonight

00:03:14   So anyway by the time that's what I'm saying about the the offsetting of podcasting is this show won't come out till tomorrow

00:03:20   So by tomorrow the whole world will know who won the World Series probably to be I'll either be very drunk or very sad

00:03:26   well, I mean

00:03:28   Wait, what?

00:03:29   No, I guess very drunk or very drunk. Yeah, that's the way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just different types of drunks, right?

00:03:36   Anyway, I don't want to see you know famously you can't open these tech podcasts with lots and lots of baseball to talk

00:03:44   But there was a band last night's game was a wackadoo. So number one here some math and nerdery. I thought about this

00:03:49   This is something that has nothing to do with baseball in particular, but has to do with

00:03:56   statistical anomalies. So the World Series, for those of you who aren't baseball fans,

00:04:00   is the best of seven series. Whichever team has the better record from the regular season,

00:04:06   gets home field advantage. First two games are played at their ballpark. Next three games are

00:04:12   played at the other team's ballpark. And then the final two games, if necessary, if one of the two

00:04:17   teams hasn't already won four games are played at the home field advantage teams ballpark.

00:04:25   This year, every single game to this point for six games was won by the road team, the

00:04:31   away team, which has never happened in the World Series. It has never happened in a baseball

00:04:39   Major League Baseball seven game series. And it's also did you know this never happened

00:04:44   in the other two major sports in the US that have playoff series. Football doesn't count

00:04:49   because you play one game and done. But in the NHL and in the NBA, there has never been

00:04:54   a seven game series in the postseason, the playoffs or whatever you want to call it where

00:04:58   the home team won or the away team won the first six games.

00:05:02   So I knew about, you know, the home team thing happening right now, but I never knew that

00:05:06   this was a new thing. That's, that's kind of amazing.

00:05:10   really crazy. So I tried that, you know, I like to do the math. So I, I was too lazy

00:05:15   to figure out what the home like, what is the home field advantage in baseball? It's

00:05:21   not as great as in other sports. And I you try to if you try to search for it on the

00:05:26   web, you'd search for like, World Series home field advantage history or statistics.

00:05:33   And all I could get are explanations for how they determine home field advantage, you know,

00:05:39   that they used to get it to the team that won the all-star game which was

00:05:45   stupid that was the dumbest thing in the history of hated that it was so stupid

00:05:48   and you know it was all because that one game ended in a tie yeah 2002 the

00:05:54   all-star game ended in a tie because it was tied after nine innings and they

00:05:57   didn't you know it's only an all-star game so exhibition game they don't want

00:06:00   to bust any pitchers arms and so they just said okay you know shake hands it's

00:06:05   a tie and some people were bothered by that and they were like well let's make

00:06:08   the stakes mean something, whoever wins the World Series, that league gets homefield advantage

00:06:14   in the World Series, which was terribly unfair. Before that, you remember when we were kids,

00:06:19   the way they did it was just every other year. It was like, I forget which one was which,

00:06:23   but like odd years, the National League team hosted even years the American League team.

00:06:29   And so it was just like if your team got to the World Series, it was like a coin flip

00:06:33   whether you were going to get home field advantage, which again seems a little weird.

00:06:38   And I gotta say this, this setup is good. It's fair. It's, you know, I like, I like it,

00:06:45   but especially it's the first experience that my team has had right in the world series. We've

00:06:49   never been here before. We've always done poorly in the post season and now we're just one game

00:06:54   away from magic. Yeah. And it's weird watching on TV as a fan. Now I have no, no real bones in this.

00:07:01   You know, my beloved Yankees aren't in my second favorite team the Phillies aren't in

00:07:04   And I can't say I really hate and you know, it's like the Red Sox are in and I would just

00:07:11   Root strongly against them. Although the Astros are sort of like that

00:07:15   There's a lot not a lot not to like about the Astros a lot of a lot of teams think they cheat

00:07:19   That they they got like, you know, electronic gizmos throughout the ballpark trying to steal pitches and signals and stuff

00:07:26   You know, there's like the the clean old-fashioned what you see with your eyes

00:07:30   way of stealing signals which everybody knows is part of the game and you know

00:07:34   using

00:07:34   cheating devices is not I don't know if they do it or not but they kinda have

00:07:38   that reputation

00:07:39   then they got the whole domestic abuse

00:07:42   scandal heading into the World Series

00:07:46   left a bad taste in everybody's mouth so easy to root against the Astros

00:07:50   and like I told Moltz the other day I just naturally whoever beats the Yankees I

00:07:53   root against them

00:07:54   just out of spite. Yeah I get that I get that and and they

00:07:58   The Astros definitely handled that situation about as badly as you can handle a PR situation.

00:08:05   Really terribly. I don't know what they were thinking, really. I don't want to get into it, but

00:08:09   basically an executive for the Astros made some weird statements after they won their

00:08:19   American League championship. They have a pitcher who was in a domestic abuse situation and was

00:08:27   suspended for 75 games, played for another team. They traded to get him on the cheap because he

00:08:31   was sort of damaged goods because he, you know, had beaten up his girlfriend or something, you

00:08:36   know, whatever it was he did. Signed him. He came in, he pitched in the game that they were talking

00:08:41   about, this is against the Yankees, gave up a home run that tied the game and then the Astros won it

00:08:48   anyway. But this pitcher, you know, kind of stuck up the joint. He blew a save with a home run.

00:08:53   And meanwhile, this guy's in the locker room saying, "I'm so glad we got him. I'm so glad

00:08:57   we got Asuna." And he's shouting it right at these women baseball reporters, one of whom was wearing

00:09:01   the purple bracelet that symbolizes support for domestic abuse survivors and victims. And he's

00:09:09   shouting it right in their face, which really clearly was sort of like he's trying to stick

00:09:14   it to them that they signed a guy with a questionable past. But anyway, it couldn't

00:09:19   have been a worse look for someone. Right. So one of the reporters wrote the story up for

00:09:23   Jennifer Epstein, I believe her name is I know her last name is Epstein. I think she's Jennifer,

00:09:28   but she writes for Sports Illustrated, wrote it up. So far, it's already a stinky problem. You

00:09:35   know, it's not good. And what the Astros should have done at this point said, Hey, this guy,

00:09:38   you know, we're gonna, we the Astros are gonna suspend this guy, you know, we're gonna look into

00:09:43   this, you know, he's suspended for 12 weeks while Major League Baseball looks into it. Maybe he

00:09:47   he could have salvaged his baseball career. But instead, what the Houston Astros did is denied it.

00:09:53   They said this Sports Illustrated story is, you know, not true, and we can't believe they published

00:09:58   it. And then the part that it's like, you have to think like, what did they think was going to

00:10:04   happen is like, at least half a dozen other reporters from various publications who were

00:10:10   in the room said, I saw it happen. And what's what what's in the Sports Illustrated story is exactly

00:10:16   what happened.

00:10:17   Jared

00:10:23   Actually, this report is exactly on the record.

00:10:27   So anyway, they had to fire the guy, I mean, rightly so.

00:10:31   But just a real stinky story to head into the World Series.

00:10:35   So boo on the Astros.

00:10:36   Go Nats.

00:10:39   Anyway, last night we had a funny thing.

00:10:41   Again, not a lot of baseball talk,

00:10:44   but you and I were chatting about this earlier.

00:10:47   There was a play in the seventh inning

00:10:50   where a guy, Trey Turner, leadoff man, speedy guy for the Nationals, hit a weird little

00:10:55   dribbler. Very hard play. He's running down to first base, right on the baseline, and

00:11:01   the catcher picks it up, throws it to first, and it hits him in the butt, but his foot

00:11:05   was already on the bag. He was already safe. And then a ball rolls away and people run

00:11:09   around in it. So it looked like the Nationals were going to have men on second and third

00:11:14   with one out. Nobody out. Nobody out. Nobody out. Which is really in a, what was it, top

00:11:20   at the time? Yeah. Or were those three, two? They were up three, two. Yeah. And anyway,

00:11:26   the home plate umpire says that he ran into the baseline, it interfered with the ability to make

00:11:31   the play, and he's out. And the guy from third has to go all the way back to first. Even if he

00:11:37   was out, he's, you know, I understand that's how the rules are written, and if he's going to call

00:11:41   the rule. But it was a very strange play. Everybody agrees it was bad. I can't see,

00:11:45   I haven't seen one person say, "You know what? Actually, it was the right call." Usually,

00:11:51   there's always the actually guy, right? I haven't seen one person defend the call. It's actually

00:11:57   maybe the least controversial play I've ever seen. Even that terrible pass interference call

00:12:05   in the NFC playoff game last year, I saw at least a few people say, "You know, it was kind of close

00:12:10   in real time. That was the thing I saw was that in real time it was kind of close and

00:12:16   you can't go by the slow motion even though that's what the instant replay rule is for.

00:12:21   That was the only other thing I could compare it to. I hadn't seen anybody have any defense

00:12:25   for this at all. I don't see what Trey Turner could have done differently other than agree

00:12:31   to be out. You know, if he was...

00:12:32   He made as straight a line for first base as you could make.

00:12:35   All he was trying to do to me the spirit of the rule is

00:12:38   clearly that the runner is supposed to only make an honest attempt to get to the base and

00:12:44   Therefore not make any dishonest motions

00:12:47   You know with his arms or is the path he takes to try to interfere with their ability to throw the ball to the ahead

00:12:54   Of him all he was trying to do and it's very clear

00:12:57   I all these other major league players around the league tweeted about it and said hey

00:13:01   this is this is terrible rule terrible call. But the weird part about it then was the

00:13:06   the instant replay. So they didn't challenge it and they went to instant replay and they had a

00:13:14   commercial break. It was incredibly long and baseball fans with the what so there's an instant

00:13:20   replay rule for those of you don't watch and it's only a couple years old but basically teams can

00:13:24   challenge a call and not every call but most calls. The umpire or the managers of the team,

00:13:32   which is what most sports call the coach, makes a little signal. They go to a booth,

00:13:37   an umpire and MLB headquarters in New York watches the play over and over again, slow

00:13:42   motion tells the umpires in the ballpark, here's what it should be scored and then they

00:13:47   come out and it's over and it takes usually takes 90 seconds to two minutes. Fans already

00:13:52   gripe about that, right? This is like a common gripe that the two minutes it takes for a

00:13:56   replay takes too long. It needs to be sped up. The baseball games already take too long,

00:14:01   speed it up. This one took like five, six minutes. And then it turns out that they were

00:14:06   saying that it wasn't even a reviewable play. Like the rules for which plays can be reviewed

00:14:11   or not don't include the runner's interference. Which is crazy. Just the whole thing was crazy.

00:14:18   So my theory I don't know if you saw my tweets later

00:14:20   It was very late at night

00:14:21   But my I have a theory as to what happened and why the replay took so long

00:14:24   My theory and I really think it's what happened. I don't think it's a crazy theory. My theory is that

00:14:31   Given that it's not reviewable. It should have been a very short review

00:14:35   They should say hey they challenged this and then the guy in New York would say you know what this that's not a reviewable play

00:14:40   So it doesn't matter. I don't even have to look at the replay. I don't have to look at it

00:14:45   We can't review it then they'd take the headsets off and say it's you know, the call stands. It's not reviewable instead

00:14:51   I think what happened is that in they looked at it in New York and realized how awful the call was and how big the

00:14:57   Situation was and that they desperately were trying to figure out a way that they could overturn it

00:15:02   That's what I think it was all about. I think you could be right about that. I mean, it's possible

00:15:07   I think that it was so egregious so clearly against the spirit of the play and so it just made the umpires look so bad

00:15:14   that they were trying to get the guy, get, do the,

00:15:17   both do the right thing and get the ump who made the call out off the hook.

00:15:22   Right. Because if they'd overturned it, everybody would, you know, would,

00:15:25   you know, you'd forget about it. People wouldn't be talking about it still.

00:15:28   So, so basically if the, if that was the rod,

00:15:34   can you imagine if the world series ended with, you know, they came back,

00:15:37   Astros came back, scored a couple of runs. And then that,

00:15:40   that was the reason that the world series ended.

00:15:43   Well, it's a lot like that pass interference call on the Saints last year, but except it's,

00:15:47   you know, that was one level before the Super Bowl, not the Super Bowl itself.

00:15:51   Yeah, and they never and it did end their their season.

00:15:54   So I at that I have to take my word for this. I mean, I could send screenshots, but you know,

00:15:59   screenshots can be forged. But at that moment, I texted my friend Paul Kefauzis,

00:16:03   who's a friend of the show, previous guest, co host with my wife of the Just the Tip podcast,

00:16:09   which is, I guess, still in hiatus. Good friend. I texted him and we both agreed. Terrible call.

00:16:15   Oh my God. And I said the baseball gods should give the Nationals a home run after that.

00:16:23   And what actually happened is two batters later, Anthony Rendon hit a two-run home run.

00:16:30   Unbelievable. You can't make this up. And you got to think, in his mind, he was probably steaming

00:16:38   about this. But he is such a such a cool customer. He may be, in my mind, one of the best batters

00:16:45   in baseball in terms of, you know, just knowing the strike zone and having great vision and

00:16:51   all that. And so he, you know, I think he just said, I'm hitting a home run. And he

00:16:55   did it.

00:16:56   Now, the backstory for me personally, which is what I was texting you about, but I think

00:17:00   it's a funny story is I still needed to write up my day one review of AirPods Pro. And I

00:17:08   like half written, half notes, but it was already like 1030 at night. I didn't want to, I couldn't

00:17:14   watch the rest of the game. You know, three innings of baseball could take a long time.

00:17:17   I wanted to do it while I was, you know, hot. And I'm really bad at estimating how long it takes me

00:17:23   to finish something like that. Like for all I knew, I'd be up till three in the morning.

00:17:27   So I paused the game on my TiVo and immediately, or maybe even before I paused it, I turned on

00:17:34   on Do Not Disturb on my phone so that I would no longer get text messages or alerts from

00:17:40   the MLB app. I didn't want to spoil the game. What I wanted to do, pause the game,

00:17:47   finish my review, then go upstairs and unpause the game and watch the rest while still in

00:17:54   Do Not Disturb and pretend as though I was watching it live. And I successfully pulled

00:18:00   off. It took me another at least two hours, I think an hour or two. I forget. Yeah, it was

00:18:05   after midnight when I published it and I had to sort of backdate it to get the date to be yesterday.

00:18:10   You know, no small accomplishment because to be able to pause a game like that of with this kind

00:18:17   of importance and get no clue, no spoilers, no one ruined it for you. That's incredible.

00:18:23   I was still getting iMessage alerts. Ben Thompson texted me a couple of things and I just averted

00:18:33   my eyes from the notification. It didn't matter to me. I kind of vaguely saw that it was Ben's

00:18:40   avatar from iMessage and I knew who it was but I didn't read it and I had my alerts come in on the

00:18:47   right side on a Mac. My text was on the left and I just wouldn't look over. I've got that kind of

00:18:51   of discipline. But I successfully pulled it off. I waited two hours. I believe the game

00:18:57   was over. I can't be sure because I couldn't check. I don't know what time the game ended.

00:19:01   But I think the game was actually entirely over. I had no idea what happened. I'd left

00:19:06   three to two right after that controversial call and my prediction that the baseball gods

00:19:10   would reward them with a home run. I unpause it. I crack open a beer and two batters later

00:19:15   I was like, "Holy shit, I was right. I was like, I need to tell people." And I'm like,

00:19:18   No, it's too late. They're bad and no one will believe you

00:19:21   We did it I couldn't I was so mad that I didn't tweet it because that would have added a

00:19:26   Timestamp right you can famously because you can't edit tweets it actually would have but I swear I texted it anyway

00:19:33   I believe you I believe you good luck tonight Dave. I really I really am rooting for him. What do you think's gonna happen?

00:19:39   Oh, I have the math. So here's what I did. I estimated

00:19:42   To best way I estimated the home field advantage in playoffs

00:19:45   I figure the home team maybe a 60% chance

00:19:48   The away team 40% maybe that's a little high. Maybe baseball's more like 55 45

00:19:54   But what I did what the one stat I could find was that since 2001

00:20:01   The team with home field advantage has won

00:20:05   32 series that's not just the World Series obviously since 2001

00:20:12   Just bit MLB postseason and the team without home field advantage has won 22

00:20:17   so that's 22 out of 54 series from the division to the

00:20:22   LCS to the World Series that's about 40% something. Yeah, and that was my ballpark estimate. So I thought I'll go with that

00:20:28   So what are the odds that something with a 40% chance would happen six times in a row six straight games?

00:20:35   so it's forty point zero point four raised to the sixth power and it's

00:20:41   Like point zero zero four nine something so rounding rounding off about you know, since we're just making up the advantage

00:20:49   It's about one half of one percent chance for any World Series to go like this

00:20:54   So something you would expect to see about once every 200 years

00:20:57   Well, let's hope right

00:21:01   The other weird thing I swear to you. I hope this is you know, well if you don't like sports, you know, come on

00:21:08   I listen to video game talk on other podcasts and I don't like video games. So, you know,

00:21:11   buck up. The other weird thing for me as a I don't have a skin in this game fan, but

00:21:19   I just like baseball. And I find playoff baseball to be terribly exciting to watch no matter

00:21:23   who's in it is how weird it is. It's very palpable as a fan on TV that the away team

00:21:30   has won every game because every single game has ended with the feel of like a funeral.

00:21:36   Yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot of, you know, the things that almost get them back into it are

00:21:46   incredibly more powerful. Yeah. And a couple of these games have gotten away at the very end.

00:21:51   So last night's game was terribly, as we just asserted, in the seventh inning out of nine

00:21:57   innings, terribly close. The Nationals were ahead by the skin of their teeth.

00:22:04   But they hit a two-run homer, then they hit another homer, and it ended up they had, what,

00:22:08   a five-run lead by the ninth inning. So the Houston ballpark really had that funeral

00:22:12   sense of dread of, "Oh, I was really, you know, this is bad." It's six straight games of that sort

00:22:20   of, you know, you don't hear that raucous deliria of a crowd seeing their home team, you know,

00:22:29   win a world series game. And this is, this is sort of a, uh, not,

00:22:35   maybe people won't really get this who are not baseball fans, but this is sort of the

00:22:39   normally in baseball in the post season, in any kind of series, you'll line up your pitchers,

00:22:43   right? So the best pitcher pitches against the best pitcher because our best pitcher was hurt.

00:22:48   We're now in a slot where our third best pitcher is supposed to pitch tonight, but magically

00:22:56   through some miracle of something, drugs, something. Our best pitcher, Max Scherzer,

00:23:02   is now, and he's a great pitcher. He's not just our best pitcher. He's one of the best pitchers

00:23:07   of baseball. He's going to pitch tonight. And they're on their third best pitcher.

00:23:11   >> He was supposed to pitch on two days ago, three days ago, and woke up, woke up with like

00:23:16   a neck cramp that was so bad that he couldn't even get himself dressed. Right. But it's worked

00:23:22   to some you know i mean you get older you sleep wrong i some you know i i kind of like it sounds

00:23:27   a little weird because you just don't see that with pro athletes but you know like a neck cramp

00:23:31   or a pinched nerve or something you know could could be like that anyway did you see that you

00:23:36   had to have seen i know you're watching the guy who uh he's a nationals fan and a couple of games

00:23:42   ago yeah the bud guy yeah so there's this guy in the stands with he's sitting in the first row out

00:23:48   in left field above the home run fence. So a home run hit in his direction, you know,

00:23:53   he'd be right there in prime location to maybe catch the ball. Lo and behold, a home run

00:23:59   is heading right at him, but he can't catch it because he's holding two cans of beer,

00:24:05   one in each hand. A two-fisted drinker. Yeah, and they were big cans of beer too. They were like,

00:24:11   I don't know, pints, maybe even, I don't know if there's something, if there's a can that's bigger

00:24:15   than a pint, but it was, you know, two big cans of beer. I mean, you know, pot quite

00:24:20   possibly holding it for a friend or his wife or something. But anyway, the balls coming

00:24:24   right at him. He's got two, two cans of beer. He doesn't panic. He just lets the ball hit

00:24:30   him in the chest. It drops right in front of them. And then he kneels down, I get presumably

00:24:36   puts the beers on the on the ground and picks up the ball.

00:24:40   Just like a soccer play. You know, that thing where you stop the ball with your chest and

00:24:44   drops right in front of you, that's what he did.

00:24:47   I didn't see what the exit velocity was on that home run, but your typical home run,

00:24:51   they measure these things now, your typical home run is at least 100 miles an hour off

00:24:55   the bat.

00:24:56   At least.

00:24:57   Now that's off the bat.

00:24:58   I guess it slows down by the time it gets out there, but you're talking about a hard

00:25:04   baseball going around 100 miles an hour, just took it right in its chest.

00:25:08   But he had all that beard, it sort of softened the blow.

00:25:13   The funny thing about that was that there was a guy next to him.

00:25:17   He was sort of like near an aisle, and you could see it on the footage.

00:25:20   There's a guy next to him who sort of scrambles over to try to pick up the ball off the ground.

00:25:25   And you know, in the moment, everybody wants to catch a home run ball.

00:25:29   In the moment, I don't know, maybe I would have tried the same thing.

00:25:33   But it's a bad look.

00:25:34   They showed this replay over and over again.

00:25:37   And clearly the guy who let that ball hit him right in the chest and have it drop right

00:25:41   in front of him deserves that ball. Absolutely. Right, so that guy, I want to know who that

00:25:47   guy was who tried to scramble over there on his knees and try to steal that ball from

00:25:50   the guy. Because that's sort of a bad move. Yeah, bad move, bad move. But the funny thing

00:25:56   to add to all the funny things is that Budweiser sponsored the guy. They bought him tickets

00:26:03   to the World Series. They bought him tickets to last night's game. And they got him...

00:26:08   Go ahead. Well, they're selling t-shirts. They're selling t-shirts

00:26:11   You're 15 minutes of fame ladies and gentlemen, what's the slogan it's like always protect the beer or something like that

00:26:20   Yeah first or something like that

00:26:22   I don't know but there's some guy who at an eyes or bush or some marketing guy who jumped on that and it's like

00:26:28   That guy he's on his way up. He's up the cover. He's going right up the corporate ladder

00:26:32   All the way to the tippy top

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00:29:02   I guess we should start with the AirPods Pro, right? I mean, that's the news.

00:29:08   I'm fascinated by it. I thought your write-up was great, and especially in the sense that it really,

00:29:14   for someone who's never seen them, and most of us have never seen the AirPods Pro, you really

00:29:21   took us on a journey and answered, I think, the questions, certainly the questions that

00:29:25   I had about what it was like to wear them. And you took them all the way from New York

00:29:30   to Philadelphia, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think it was a pretty good test. And for,

00:29:36   like, getting something, you know, and there was no embargo on it from Apple. Apple, you know,

00:29:44   I didn't find out. I didn't know until I think Sunday night that there was something on Tuesday

00:29:48   in New York, you know, and they don't tell you exactly what it is. And then and then on Monday,

00:29:53   Apple officially announced them, you know, with a newsroom post, and then they unveiled the

00:30:00   spectacularly bad website. Scroll up a lose. So once that happened, then Apple PR, you know,

00:30:09   said, you know, this is for, you know, the this is this is why we want you to come to New York for a

00:30:14   a briefing. It'll be on background only, which is their usual terms. And they wanted to emphasize

00:30:21   that I, which I knew, but maybe other people in the media wouldn't, is that you needed to

00:30:27   upgrade your phone to 13.2 to support, you know, the AirPods Pro require iOS 13.2 or later.

00:30:38   So yeah, I was in New York, I got them, talked to Apple, asked questions. And then, you know,

00:30:44   left around 230, got home around five, but you know, it was a really good test. I mean,

00:30:50   I'm not going to repeat all of it. But I mean, New York City streets, New York City subway,

00:30:54   the Amtrak train, and you know, if you and for those of you, I know that that's sort of a

00:30:59   regional thing in the US, but you know, Amtrak is, how would you say it compares to an airplane

00:31:06   in terms of noise. Airplanes are a much more consistent white noise.

00:31:10   Exactly. Exactly. It's a much more up and down kind of noise. And you said,

00:31:17   I think, "clackety-clack" or something like that. That's exactly what I mean.

00:31:20   Yeah. "Clackety-clack rumble."

00:31:21   Yeah. That's what it's like. And it's almost nonstop. Obviously, when the train's stopped,

00:31:28   there's no noise. But as the train is rolling along, it's hitting those tracks.

00:31:35   it's really loud and if the AirPods Pro could deal with that, I think that's a really good test. The

00:31:43   airplane, I think there's less calculations per second going on. Yeah, it seems like easier noise

00:31:50   to filter. It's sort of like pure white noise in a way. And then walking from 30th Street Station

00:31:57   back to my home in Center City, Philly, and wearing them around the house where it isn't noisy.

00:32:02   Pretty good test. I mean, so getting stuff and trying to write about it that night is really,

00:32:08   really hard. For a complex product, I'd never even try it. Like, I maybe for like, first impressions,

00:32:14   if I only got, if I got like a review unit iPhone, maybe I'd write something that the night that I

00:32:21   got it. But for the most part, even just doing them on a one week schedule seems incredibly

00:32:26   difficult. But AirPods are so simple, really, you know, that it kind of can be encapsulated,

00:32:31   you know, three, four hours experience is pretty good.

00:32:34   Except I think what you did was there are a number of kind of big deals about

00:32:40   the AirPods that you, uh, that you really captured like the, you know,

00:32:46   there's transparency mode and the noise cancellation and the, um,

00:32:50   the sort of the physical controls and then the software controls.

00:32:53   You got all of them. And I think they're each, um,

00:32:57   worth talking about. Like I had a question, you,

00:33:00   You raised the point that you hadn't, you actually didn't bring your, what were the...

00:33:06   Bose QuietComfort 2s, I think the model number is, but I have a couple year old player Bose

00:33:13   noise canceling over the ear headphones. Okay, so let me ask you a question that I have,

00:33:19   which is, when you put on those Bose, I don't know if you could walk outside,

00:33:24   like are they small enough you could wear them outside?

00:33:27   I could, but I think wearing over-the-ear headphones outside is weird. I don't know.

00:33:31   I mean, I know some people do it, but... But let's say you did...

00:33:34   And they are wireless. They're, you know, they're, they're, they're, you know, I don't know. I

00:33:39   haven't used wired headphones in quite some time, so I could go outside.

00:33:42   Let's say you did, right? And you have, because you have a sense of how they are with noise

00:33:46   cancellation, and specifically I'm thinking walking on the street, so you have to be

00:33:53   somewhat aware of the traffic, the people beeping their horns

00:33:58   or whatever, that you have to be aware of all the stuff that's

00:34:01   going on around you, so that you don't walk in the middle of in

00:34:04   front of a car or whatever, right? One thing I got from

00:34:09   your write up was that the AirPods Pro have the ability to,

00:34:15   transparency mode, I guess is what I'm talking about, the idea

00:34:22   that you can hear parts of what's going on around you.

00:34:25   Did the Bose let you do that as well or?

00:34:28   - They don't have a mode like that.

00:34:29   They're either on or they're off.

00:34:30   And so it's always noise cancellation.

00:34:33   And I think the way Apple presents it in the user interface,

00:34:36   have you seen it?

00:34:37   Like I had like the little movie,

00:34:38   but it's like in control center,

00:34:41   if you forced tap, if you have the AirPods Pro in,

00:34:45   you force tap on the volume and you get more,

00:34:48   you know, specific options.

00:34:50   - You got like three,

00:34:51   it pops up into three different pieces.

00:34:53   - Right, but I think it conveys

00:34:56   just how different transparency is.

00:34:59   Transparency isn't like,

00:35:01   like where I'm going is in theory,

00:35:05   you could have a feature, right,

00:35:06   where either noise cancellation is on or off, right?

00:35:10   You're either just playing the audio

00:35:13   with no noise cancellation off,

00:35:15   or you're using noise cancellation on,

00:35:18   And transparency could be a checkbox.

00:35:21   Oh, it's like an option for when noise cancellation is on.

00:35:26   Do you also wanna use transparency

00:35:29   to get some surrounding sounds through

00:35:33   or something like that?

00:35:34   But that's not what it's like at all.

00:35:35   It is, in practice, an entirely different mode.

00:35:40   It is absolutely nothing like the noise cancellation

00:35:43   and it is nothing at all like having noise cancellation off.

00:35:47   It is a third mode.

00:35:50   It is equally, you know, like they're,

00:35:51   it's really like the other side of the coin

00:35:53   with noise cancellation compared to regular non,

00:35:57   regular AirPods.

00:35:58   And I think the way that they present it as such

00:36:00   is exactly right.

00:36:02   It is the, and if there's anything that longer term,

00:36:06   you know, whether I'll write about it or others,

00:36:08   something that I think is gonna take days or a week

00:36:10   before we really get it figured out is that whole,

00:36:13   this transparency mode, it really deserves more attention.

00:36:16   It's really mind-bending and kind of interesting.

00:36:20   And nobody really saw that coming.

00:36:23   Like the rumor was, oh, the new AirPods

00:36:25   are gonna have noise cancellation.

00:36:27   Everybody knows what noise cancellation is,

00:36:28   and lo and behold, they have noise cancellation.

00:36:31   But really, in terms of the presentation

00:36:34   and the feature set, you know,

00:36:35   like when you squeeze, by default,

00:36:37   when you squeeze that, what do they call it,

00:36:39   the force sensor, the quote-unquote button on the buds,

00:36:43   when you press and hold it,

00:36:45   it toggles between two things, transparency and noise cancellation. Effectively, it's

00:36:52   50 percent of what you're supposed to be doing with it. I mean, whether they expect

00:36:55   you'll use it 50 percent of the time or not, I don't know, but it's 50 percent of

00:36:59   the feature set of what makes these different than regular AirPods.

00:37:04   So can you explain, using a real-world example, what would, if I was in an environment where

00:37:11   had noise cancellation on, I hear nothing but music if I have music on, or I hear nothing

00:37:16   if I've got nothing playing. But with transparency, what kind of noises would filter through?

00:37:22   Would I hear cars, car engines?

00:37:24   Yes, definitely. You hear most things. It's very hard to describe and I can't record it,

00:37:30   right? Because it's only in my ears, so I can't play it. And you kind of have to hear

00:37:33   it. Even if I could record it, you listening it with a different sort of, you know, like

00:37:41   a speaker on your computer or different type of headphones that don't have the silicone

00:37:47   seals to seal off your ears, you kind of have to experience it. But you definitely hear

00:37:51   ambient noise. So, again, in my corner grocery store where the cooler is pretty loud, you

00:38:00   know, the thing that you can walk up and take cold beverages out of and buy them. You don't

00:38:06   hear it at all with noise cancellation, but you definitely hear it with transparency on.

00:38:12   But it's not the same as the way you hear it when you're wearing regular ear pods

00:38:18   that don't have noise cancellation or a sealed ear canal. It's sort of less. It

00:38:24   is sort of dampened, but you hear it. It's really hard to explain. And they're definitely

00:38:31   filtering stuff and it's not just pure pass through. You know, it's not like they're just

00:38:36   broadcasting what what's on the outside, although mostly they are, but it's, you know, and it's

00:38:42   obviously meant to be to keep what it is you're listening to either music or, you know, the

00:38:48   video that you're watching or a podcast you're listening to your, your are obviously supposed

00:38:54   to be able to continue enjoying the music

00:38:56   or listening to the podcast

00:38:58   while these sounds from the outside

00:39:00   are also getting pumped through.

00:39:02   It seems like magic that the way that they balance it.

00:39:09   It is when you want it, when I've wanted it so far,

00:39:12   I mean, what are we, about 27 hours in,

00:39:16   it seems like exactly the right thing.

00:39:17   So one thing I figured out today

00:39:19   that I was kind of leaning towards last night,

00:39:21   but I've convinced myself today

00:39:23   after going out and running some errands

00:39:25   before you and I recorded this,

00:39:28   is I definitely like transparency mode

00:39:30   while I'm walking around the city.

00:39:32   And typically for me, it's for listening to podcasts.

00:39:36   I very seldom listen to music when I'm just walking around.

00:39:39   I listen to podcasts.

00:39:40   I can hear the podcasts just fine.

00:39:43   It's very hard to describe how being able

00:39:47   to hear the city around me compares

00:39:51   with these AirPods Pro buds with transparency on compared to the regular AirPods. What are

00:40:03   we going to call them? AirPods Amateur that I've been using for, you know, three years

00:40:09   now as I walk around the city listening to podcasts. It's different, but the effect is

00:40:15   similar. You know, like I would, you know, you can tell by the way they feel in your

00:40:19   ear that they're different and it definitely sounds different. But I don't like walking

00:40:23   around the city with noise cancellation on it is too I'm too in my head and I, I, you

00:40:30   know, and obviously too isolated, right? Right. And it's not like you can't be safe as a pedestrian

00:40:36   walking around the city like that. Because quite obviously, there are, you know, millions

00:40:39   of people who have low hearing, who navigate the world just fine. But because I don't have

00:40:49   low hearing I'm you're not good at I know low-hearing person I would say I'm

00:40:57   bad I would say I'm downright bad at it right like it's I I feel nervous and I

00:41:01   feel like it's did generally general genuinely dangerous for me to be walking

00:41:05   around the streets of Philadelphia with noise cancellation on and I don't find

00:41:10   it pleasant it's too weird to me right it maybe I could get used to it but you

00:41:18   know, like what would have happened if these AirPods Pro had come out and they only had

00:41:22   noise cancellation on or off and they didn't have transparency? I was trying to think about

00:41:27   it today and I'm not sure what I would have done. It's hard to say, but I definitely know

00:41:33   that I prefer transparency to either of those options while walking around the city.

00:41:38   So I find it interesting that Apple has a killer feature here, right? Transparency is

00:41:44   one of the killer features of the AirPods Pro and maybe killer features of the right

00:41:48   term, but you know what I mean. It's that sell the thing they can sell something that can get their

00:41:53   hands around as a selling team, right? They did this. This would have been perfect for a keynote.

00:41:59   This would have been a perfect thing with, you know, something play some sound playing in a video

00:42:06   playing above Tim Cook's head or whoever, where they they flipped the switch and you were in noise

00:42:12   cancellation mode and they flipped another switch and now you're in transparency mode and you could

00:42:15   hear it with visuals to sort of guide you to what you're you know what's

00:42:19   obviously a dog is barking and then yeah but I don't know how you know in theory

00:42:24   yes but in practice I'm not sure how you it's it's it's like you can't show off

00:42:31   the quality of a screen on a screen right and and when they introduced home

00:42:35   pod I think it was Phil Schiller on stage he even said when they introduced

00:42:40   HomePod. I think it was at WWDC. This is really hard. He wanted to demonstrate the way that

00:42:47   HomePod adjusts itself to the acoustics of the room that you're in and the way that it

00:42:51   has an accelerometer. And as soon as you move it, it knows to reconfigure itself. As soon

00:42:55   as it detects it, you've stopped moving it. And how do you simulate the way that HomePod

00:43:02   will sound in your living room or your kitchen or your office in a 5,000 person auditorium?

00:43:08   But HomePod, I think you're listening to the quality of the audio, whereas this would be,

00:43:14   like, you could demonstrate noise cancellation easily, right? Because you'd have sound, sound,

00:43:19   sound, sound, sound, and then quiet, a hush. And then you'd have, you know, I think they could do

00:43:24   it, but I'll tell you what, I think we're going to see some pretty cool commercials. Apple's going to,

00:43:29   I'm sure they have ads in the hopper ready to release or close to.

00:43:33   Yeah, I don't know. It's a hard it's a hard thing to market. I think though because

00:43:37   it

00:43:39   You got a figure most people don't have

00:43:42   You know the majority of people who might buy these

00:43:45   Probably possibly have never used noise cancelling headphones before and probably if they have they've had over the ear ones not

00:43:51   ones that go in your ear and

00:43:54   Part of the reason that this is such a genius feature and at this point 20

00:43:59   Like I said 27 hours in I'm willing to describe it as essential

00:44:02   It's essential to the nature of the product is the fact that because they're in earbuds

00:44:07   Those tips the silicone tips seal in your ear canal

00:44:12   so if you just have them in and you're not playing anything and you just

00:44:18   Turn them off they you know, they're effectively like wearing earplugs. You you do hear less of the real world around you and

00:44:25   So the only way you you know you hear way more of the world around you with

00:44:29   Transparency mode on than you do even if you turn noise cancellation completely off because once they're in your ear

00:44:35   You're somewhat sealed off from the surroundings

00:44:38   So do you did having the experience now and

00:44:45   Put yourself in the in the you know the position of someone with a budget who's on a budget who I could you know

00:44:51   I have a little you you can buy this is your job

00:44:54   You can buy all the all the gear but someone just a regular person who's thinking about I want to buy some headphones

00:44:59   If the air pods are one hundred fifty nine dollars the air pods Pro

00:45:04   249 dollars right I think that's the the price well

00:45:08   There's there's three price points unless I like to round up the extra buck, so let's call regular air pods

00:45:13   160

00:45:15   regular air pods with the chi charging case are

00:45:19   200 you have to it's a $40 premium to get the case that she charges

00:45:23   and then the pros are 250 and only you know only come with a cheap cheap capable case

00:45:31   Let's

00:45:35   See to 250 is a pretty big jump and I could see how someone who's price-conscious is just gonna go for the hundred sixty dollar

00:45:41   regular ones and

00:45:43   You know, I I think that makes a lot of sense

00:45:46   the the one that doesn't make as much sense to me is if you want if you're gonna spend

00:45:51   200 on the one with the Qi charging case you might as well spend 50 more bucks and get these

00:45:55   Provided that you give them a shot first if you know if you're really I mean you could buy them and if you do if

00:46:02   They really don't fit your ear or you find it physically uncomfortable

00:46:05   You you know you can send them back to Apple in the return period so you don't have to go to the store to try

00:46:10   them

00:46:12   But I hate sending stuff back

00:46:14   So you know the fact that you can try them on in the store is to me a big advantage if I were uncertain about

00:46:20   about it, I would definitely go and try it first.

00:46:22   - I have returned stuff to Apple before.

00:46:26   I bought a phone and then I said,

00:46:28   this isn't the phone for me,

00:46:29   I'm gonna buy this other phone.

00:46:31   And they made it so easy and there's that sort of potential

00:46:36   for guilt, there was none of that, none of that.

00:46:40   It was like, no, we want you to be happy.

00:46:42   - Yeah, yeah. - We really want it,

00:46:43   so please get what you want.

00:46:45   I think that's great.

00:46:46   So, so the, the $250, um,

00:46:51   you're getting the noise cancellation, the,

00:46:54   the transparency mode, new sort of, uh,

00:46:58   physical things, the,

00:47:00   the flat thing on one side and the button that's really not a button.

00:47:03   It's sort of a pressure sensitive thing. You're getting, uh,

00:47:06   sweat and water resistance, right? That, uh, what do they call it? PX four,

00:47:10   I think. Yeah. IPX four. So it's IP. Thank you. IPF.

00:47:13   Apparently more sweat and water. You can't go swimming with them,

00:47:16   but apparently it's more rain and sweat resistant

00:47:20   than regular AirPods are.

00:47:22   Although I haven't heard many complaints, if any,

00:47:24   that I can think of from people who say

00:47:26   that their AirPods shorted out or something

00:47:28   just because they were working out.

00:47:30   But apparently they're even more water resistant,

00:47:33   which it's only a good thing.

00:47:36   - Yeah, I wear AirPods every day when I'm working out.

00:47:40   And I sweat, whatever, and it's never been a problem for me.

00:47:44   They also fit more securely.

00:47:46   And for me, like I wrote,

00:47:48   I've never had an AirPod fall out accidentally

00:47:50   except when unthinkingly like taking,

00:47:55   I forget what I did the one time or why I did it.

00:47:59   Like I had to, I took off a shirt while I was wearing them

00:48:03   and of course popped them right out of my ear.

00:48:05   I was like, oh, where the hell did that go?

00:48:07   Other than something like that,

00:48:09   like taking off my shirt while I was wearing them

00:48:11   just because I was absent-minded,

00:48:13   I've never had an AirPod fall out accidentally, but I know other people, they do.

00:48:18   I saw on Marques Brownlee's YouTube quickie first impression review of them that with

00:48:24   regular AirPods, if he shakes his head back and forth pretty quickly, like a pretty vehement,

00:48:31   you know, shaking your head no gesture, he can make them fall out.

00:48:34   I can't even make regular AirPods fall out of my ears when I do that.

00:48:39   So I, you know, mine just happened, my ears just happened to be a shape that fits the

00:48:42   regular AirPods pretty well.

00:48:43   But I know for other people, that's a real issue.

00:48:45   Some people, because regular AirPods are one size fits all.

00:48:50   Some people, they don't work at all.

00:48:52   And for others, I have a couple of friends who they occasionally fall out, you know,

00:48:56   like while they're exercising or something.

00:48:57   These are much younger fit.

00:49:01   And they come with different, like the Powerbeats Pro, they come with a different sort of clickable

00:49:08   ends, right?

00:49:09   Yeah, yeah, I love it. It's not a button, but the best way to think of it is a button.

00:49:15   The way it clicks audibly in the ear on the side on which you click it, it so much makes

00:49:25   it feel, not feel to your fingers obviously, but feel as the overall experience like a

00:49:30   button, like the button that's on the wired earbuds that Apple still makes.

00:49:38   I had my son try it and didn't tell him how it worked. And I was like, Now, do you think

00:49:43   that really clicked or not? And he was completely convinced it clicked. And then when I told

00:49:47   you know, and then I had him take it out and squeeze it and it didn't click. He thought

00:49:50   that maybe they had done something like the force track trackpad and had haptic, you know,

00:49:55   something haptic in there. And I was like, Nope, there's no haptics. It's literally just

00:49:59   the sound of the click. But it's so low latency. And so perfectly, you know, like the the amount

00:50:05   you have to squeeze feels exactly right, that it convinces your brain that you're clicking

00:50:10   a button. I love it. It's really I think it's great. And I think it's one of the best things

00:50:14   versus regular AirPods because I don't think that that tapping the AirPods thing is a great.

00:50:21   I don't think that's a great way to a physical control. It just seems like you're punishing

00:50:26   yourself a bit.

00:50:27   Dr. Jon

00:50:32   there's a little bit of a sweet spot and I still to this day don't know what the sweet spot is but I

00:50:37   there are times when I tap and nothing and then I get it right it's like I move my finger a little

00:50:42   bit yeah so I think changing to the button is uh is a real a real deal um one of the things they

00:50:49   talked about in the briefing and again it's on background but I think it's okay to you know to

00:50:54   reveal it as background info and they kind of get into it in the marketing page for the airpods um

00:51:02   But there's three types of AirPods now.

00:51:07   There's the original AirPods.

00:51:09   There's the generation two AirPods that look the same,

00:51:12   but also have the option of the wireless charging case, which

00:51:18   came out what, earlier this year?

00:51:20   Like right after like around January or February

00:51:22   or something?

00:51:26   And now there's the AirPods Pro.

00:51:27   But the second generation AirPods,

00:51:29   even though they look the same, they

00:51:31   include they're the first ones that include what Apple calls the h1 chip

00:51:35   right and this h1 chip is one of Apple's custom silicone chips and has 10 audio

00:51:40   cores and the air pods Pro also have the h1 chip except and the air pods Pro they

00:51:48   put the h1 chip in a what they call a sip a system in what the hell does it

00:51:55   it stand for? System in package, which is sort of like a system, like the way they call

00:52:02   the A11 SoC, a system on chip. It's some way of encapsulating multiple chips together

00:52:10   into a smaller package. And so the actual computer running inside each of these AirPod

00:52:19   Pro Buds is significantly smaller,

00:52:24   apparently, than the circuitry of the other AirPods,

00:52:29   including the generation two ones.

00:52:33   And because of that, it takes up less space.

00:52:35   That's why the stem is smaller on the new AirPod Pros,

00:52:41   because they don't need that extra stem space for battery.

00:52:44   Like, when the iFixit guys

00:52:46   Tara toward the regular AirPods apart, you could pretty much see that those stems that

00:52:52   come out of regular AirPods are mostly filled with battery, right? The microphones in there,

00:52:58   you know, one of the microphones is in there. And so there's obviously some circuit, you

00:53:02   know, cables and stuff to connect the microphone to the rest of it. But it's mostly filled

00:53:07   with battery, but that they made them shorter now because they don't need the space for

00:53:11   the battery because they could put more of the battery in the other part of the EarPod.

00:53:16   The other thing that I think they've kind of glossed over in the marketing, but I think it's a real thing. I

00:53:22   really think it affects it in practice is

00:53:25   there's a

00:53:28   the the black grills of

00:53:30   on this

00:53:33   pass through air

00:53:35   So right, so the reason for this is

00:53:40   To keep the air pressure inside your ear once they're in and sealed by the tip

00:53:46   equal to the air pressure outside

00:53:49   the

00:53:52   Ear ear and if you've ever worn

00:53:54   earbuds that have

00:53:56   Silicone tips that seal in your ear canal, you know the experience of having those get

00:54:02   Mismatched especially like when you're wearing them on an airplane where the air pressure changes significantly

00:54:08   So I haven't worn these on an airplane yet and can't verify that it's significantly different

00:54:13   But you I never got that feeling of needing to like, you know

00:54:17   Put my pinky in my ear to you know, like pop it or something like that, you know

00:54:20   It's I think there's something there really is something to this

00:54:23   Air channel that goes through but I think that's just another sign of this

00:54:28   SIP chip that the h1's in being so much smaller because they it's so much smaller that they have space in these tiny little

00:54:37   buds to just have empty space

00:54:40   Right. That's the whole point. I'm trying to make here is that not only did they make the stem smaller, which is obvious

00:54:45   But they actually had space to just leave his space so that they could pass through the air to keep the air pressure the same

00:54:52   So

00:54:56   I'm looking at you know, I'm sort of on the website scroll scroll up Alou's a website, you know, just sort of that crazy

00:55:04   And and it looks like they're as you're describing all this. I'm seeing it. It's you described it. Well the

00:55:11   Those events are they seem much bigger than what was on the first generation or the second generation air pods

00:55:18   Yeah, they're definitely bigger and the second generation air pods. I looked it up while you were talking

00:55:22   Was that right before?

00:55:25   WWDC March 20th was the of this year was the announcement remember that sequence of things that happened

00:55:31   WWDC well, that's quite a bit before WWDC March

00:55:35   I think it was the first I mean, did you black out for the months of April in May? I

00:55:41   Did I

00:55:45   But yeah, it was like the week of announcements you're right it was like, you know Monday here's this Tuesday, here's that

00:55:51   People were hoping for that this week with MacBook pros and and maybe Mac pros but

00:55:57   Obviously did not happen and that tile thing. Oh, yeah people want that. I don't think that's coming this year

00:56:03   I don't know that seems like something that maybe got postponed for whatever reason until next year

00:56:08   Because that seems like something that they would have to do on stage in an event that seems like

00:56:15   like I think that you know, I

00:56:18   Again, I think some people who don't think about it clearly don't think you know people who are surprised

00:56:24   I saw a whole bunch of people yesterday say that Apple quietly announced the AirPods Pro.

00:56:29   It's actually not very quiet.

00:56:31   The only thing is that they didn't hold one of their big public keynote events, but they

00:56:37   kind of did a huge full-court press in terms of getting as many people in the tech industry

00:56:42   to write about these at the same time.

00:56:44   You know, the seating, you know, a day before the writer types like me and Joanna Stern

00:56:49   and Eli from the Verge, you know, day before us, they had the YouTubers come in and MKBHD

00:56:56   and iJustine and, you know, a couple of, you know, people with millions of subscribers.

00:57:02   I mean, I think MKBHD is up to just a hair under 10 million subscribers on his YouTube channel.

00:57:07   I mean, a whole bunch of YouTube influence had videos drop yesterday morning about these things.

00:57:19   I mean, that's a big deal. Yeah, it was not quiet. I mean, you couldn't you couldn't miss it

00:57:24   I think people just underestimate how much Apple doesn't

00:57:28   hold

00:57:29   keynote events willy-nilly just because there's something new like they

00:57:33   Really don't want they really want to hold keep their powder dry and hold events when it really means something and if anything

00:57:40   You know the one that sticks out in recent years would be that one they held last March where it was just about

00:57:44   services and about TV shows that they

00:57:48   didn't even show previews of

00:57:50   Right like that was the event that sort of stands out is sort of the exception to the rule that I'm trying to say they

00:57:56   Standby but except that I think that people like us weren't the audience for that event

00:58:01   I think it was meant for Wall Street. It was you know the reason they held an event without

00:58:06   Previews to show was simply to make a statement about how serious they were about subscription revenue

00:58:15   You know, I do get the feeling that there's a sea change in terms of how product is being

00:58:24   announced. It started with the March stuff, you know, with the, you know, we're just going

00:58:28   to put out a news press release. And maybe it's accompanied by seeding various writers,

00:58:34   the tech press, whatever, the influencers. But there's also, there was a story about

00:58:41   a student, if you got a $4.99 a month Apple Music student subscription, they're now bundling

00:58:49   Apple TV+ for free. Have you heard that one? No, I did not hear that. Yeah. So that's a thing.

00:58:55   And I'd say one reason you didn't hear of it was because it didn't even make an Apple newsroom

00:59:03   story. It was Haley Steinfeld, the, the, uh, you know, she's, she plays Emily Dickinson

00:59:10   on the new Apple TV plus show. She announced it on Instagram, which is a weird for Apple.

00:59:18   That's like they're so famous for their precise control of, of their message. And how often

00:59:25   does somebody else announce an Apple product?

00:59:27   Uh, that's rude. Did you link to this from, uh, from the loop?

00:59:31   I did. I think this was this morning. Yeah. It was the first story of this morning. So if you

00:59:36   scroll back, you'll see it's the headline is $4.99 a month, Apple music students subscription,

00:59:41   now bundles, blah, blah, blah. But, uh, you could see how prepared I was for this podcast by not

00:59:46   having read your work from today. I just, that's fine. But I, uh, I think that it's interesting

00:59:53   that she's, um, that they allowed someone, you know, clearly it's someone, they have a very

01:00:00   strong relationship with because she's a star of an Apple TV plus show and one of their,

01:00:06   I would say better rated Apple TV plus shows. And uh, but, but that's weird to me that on

01:00:13   Instagram, you know, not even an Apple controlled thing. Instagram is a Facebook thing, right?

01:00:19   Yeah. Well, I, you know, I think you're right that it's sort of a detection of the sea change

01:00:24   in the way people consume media and what is the best way to reach people and get your

01:00:28   message across. In the Steve Jobs era, I think it speaks to the generation that Steve Jobs

01:00:38   was and I think it was true for that. I don't think he fell behind the times, but he clearly

01:00:44   – and he, I think, was much more – I don't think anybody would deny it – was much more

01:00:50   hands-on about the public relations and product marketing strategy than Tim Cook is. Not that

01:00:56   Tim Cook doesn't care, but Tim Cook isn't a micromanager, right? Tim Cook doesn't sit down

01:01:01   and sketch out the design for new hardware because he's the CEO. Steve Jobs largely was involved in

01:01:12   his own PR. And what he cared about, obviously, were the big daily newspapers that in the jobs

01:01:19   era. They were the influencers. No better example than the single greatest Apple product

01:01:30   of all time, the original iPhone. David Pogue got it, who at the time was the tech columnist

01:01:37   for the New York Times. Walt Mossberg, of course, tech columnist for the Wall Street

01:01:44   Journal at the time, Ed Begg at USA Today, and Steven Levy, who was at Newsweek at the

01:01:52   time. So not a newspaper, but Steven Levy is, you know, super, super, still super great

01:01:59   writer with a great history of covering Jobs's career all the way back to like the original

01:02:07   Apple won, you know, like when the two Steve's were running Apple together. I mean, so a

01:02:14   very, very old school traditional mindset of who they need to get in the media to influence

01:02:20   the world and how do you reach them. And you know, I think the biggest difference between

01:02:26   then and now, and I think it's been a slow evolution, was at that time, it was for four

01:02:32   reviewers and that was it right so it's four things and that was it and now it's spread

01:02:39   out among so many dozens you know so no one person has anywhere near the influence of say

01:02:47   Walt Mossberg from back then nobody nobody I don't know who you would say like the most

01:02:52   influential one would say is the most influential reviewer of this year's new iPhones I don't you

01:02:58   know, even it certainly isn't me in terms of market, you know, reaching the most people.

01:03:03   I don't know, you know, it's there's nobody like certainly true. That's certainly true. But But um,

01:03:10   I think that there's a there's a flip side of that too. On Apple side, Apple side, the PR people are

01:03:17   they can't it can't be one person controlling the PR message, right? Right. It's groups of people

01:03:23   and each group has its PR people. And also back in the day, I'm talking about Steve, he was

01:03:30   not that, not to address Tim and tag him in any way, label him anyway, but Steve, we clearly know,

01:03:38   was the visionary, the guy who thought of the product and said, this is what we're going to do.

01:03:44   And then he would take input from other people. But he was that filter. He was the bottleneck

01:03:49   for product design. Right. And, and so when he was connecting to someone, to Walt Mossberg or,

01:03:57   or, or Steven Levy or pick your, your person, when he was connected to those people,

01:04:01   he was on the phone with them. He was talking to them. He was sort of evangelizing the product.

01:04:07   There was a very direct connection. And now there's like five levels of indirection between,

01:04:15   you know, the product visionary, and there's got to be, you know, there's a watch product visionary,

01:04:21   I think. And there's an AirPods product visionary. And there may be, it may not even be a single

01:04:26   product, it may be a group of designers who, you know, who all have sort of a different,

01:04:33   my goal is to make the smallest possible battery or to get the most amount of life from the battery.

01:04:37   And another person is about the audio and like that. It's just, Apple has become such a much

01:04:44   more complex company. They're, you know, they're just in so many more pieces. It's just hard to

01:04:50   compare the old days with the new days. And so we have new things, new ways of getting the message

01:04:55   out. And, you know, I'm not going to speak as an expert on how to reach your millennials. But

01:05:01   I can't help but think off the top of my head that having an Instagram star who's on an Apple TV Plus

01:05:09   show do it on Instagram is a pretty good way to reach the actual people who are of the

01:05:18   age and demographic who might pick up a $5 a month student Apple Music subscription and

01:05:24   then start watching TV plus shows like I had tossed that around that whole idea before

01:05:29   they announced how you're actually going to pay for Apple TV plus I was a big proponent

01:05:34   of the idea that maybe they will just give it to everybody who has Apple Music right

01:05:38   just Apple music now includes Apple TV plus we even before we knew the name because I

01:05:44   didn't think it was so much. And I know that they keep talking about services, services,

01:05:49   services to the point where there are people and I really think it's totally wrong and

01:05:53   I almost can't believe how many people I don't want to say fall fall for it. But people who

01:05:59   say that Apple as a company is pivoting towards services, when they haven't done anything

01:06:05   to decrease their interest or reliance on making hardware products that they've always done. It's

01:06:11   an expansion of their domain, not a shifting of their intentions. I mean, my belief.

01:06:19   I think it's more not to disagree with you as much as I'd say you could fine tune the model to

01:06:26   say that there's a financial analysis you could do. And in which case, yeah, they're pivoting

01:06:31   to services for where are their dependencies? Well, they recognize that the smartphone market

01:06:39   is maturing and they need to have a model where they can still provide satisfaction

01:06:47   to their shareholders by having growth like that. But that's just the financial side.

01:06:50   On the product side, it's still the product side and the products, they're still building

01:06:54   products. They're still building Macs. They're still building, allegedly, they're still building

01:06:57   a back pro. Yeah, I said, you know, I get it that. And like I

01:07:05   said, I think that whole March event was geared towards Wall

01:07:07   Street. And it was to, to have a story you need us, you know,

01:07:10   whilst you know, we're human human beings love stories. And

01:07:14   it's what we're hooked up to, to, to understand. And it's a

01:07:20   story and I don't think it's not. It's not bullshit. It's it's

01:07:24   It's not like they're not putting a lot of,

01:07:27   they're supposedly spending billions of dollars

01:07:29   on these original content shows.

01:07:31   I mean, even for Apple, billions of dollars

01:07:33   is something that, pretty sure you have to send

01:07:36   to Tim Cook's desk, like nobody's,

01:07:38   (laughing)

01:07:39   nobody's putting that through without

01:07:42   somebody double checking it.

01:07:44   They have hundreds of billions,

01:07:46   but still, once you're in the billions,

01:07:48   that's something that's truly strategic to the company.

01:07:51   I don't know, we're a little off the chart there.

01:07:59   But anyway, that's really interesting.

01:08:00   I'm not surprised though that they're doing this tossing in the Apple TV.

01:08:04   I really think they just want, what they want is they just want people to pay for subscriptions,

01:08:08   period.

01:08:09   And if you're paying for the games and the music and maybe, you know, I mean, I'm sure

01:08:16   news is sort of the ugly stepchild there that probably has, will have lined up with the

01:08:20   lowest number of subscribers. Although there's still definitely the possibility that once

01:08:26   the TV stuff gets off the ground a little more that they're going to roll out some kind of Apple

01:08:30   Prime. Well, like everybody calls it Prime, like Amazon Prime, like you get Amazon Prime,

01:08:35   and then you get everything. So for lack of a better word, I'm sure they'll come up with their

01:08:40   own name, but Apple Prime, or you get all of it. And again, students, you know, who, you know,

01:08:46   Don't have money because they're students right? So, you know, we just want you on board

01:08:50   We just if you just give us five dollars a month

01:08:52   And but millions and millions of you do it

01:08:55   we'd be delighted to allow you to watch the TV plus shows - and

01:09:00   Because they're students and don't have a lot of money to toss around on a subscription there and a subscription

01:09:06   Here and a subscription over there. They also don't have money to buy a new iPhone every year

01:09:10   So they're not going to necessary, you know

01:09:12   They're less likely than idiots like me who buy one every single year to just automatically

01:09:18   Luck my way into the I don't have to pay for a fold

01:09:21   Yeah, I don't have to pay five dollars a month for TV plus because I was smart and

01:09:25   spent $1,400 on the phone

01:09:28   Right. So the TV plus thing I think is interesting because their goal I think is not

01:09:35   necessarily in the short term to have a lot of subscribers

01:09:39   much more

01:09:41   Their goal I think in the short term is to have a lot of viewers

01:09:45   Have a lot of people tasting the the service just to get a sense of it and they know it's good

01:09:51   They know their first kick at the can is gonna be okay

01:09:53   Maybe not the best possible thing because they're learning they're eating their learning curve now

01:09:57   But in a year after everybody has had a free year with their purchase of their iPhone or piece of hardware their Apple TV

01:10:04   Whatever their piece of hardware is after a year. They'll have a lot more shows

01:10:08   presumably, and they'll also, I think,

01:10:11   be in the later episodes of shows where they've put

01:10:15   some of those lessons learned to work.

01:10:17   And what's the show with Jennifer Aniston?

01:10:20   - The Morning Show. - The Morning Show.

01:10:21   Yeah, so The Morning Show, what I've read is

01:10:24   that the earlier episodes were, they struggled with.

01:10:28   The vision is a little hard to parse,

01:10:32   but as they went further along,

01:10:35   the sense I get is that it's, you know,

01:10:37   they start, they're going to find a groove. And I think they will,

01:10:40   even if you go to episodes five, six, and seven, which nobody's seen yet,

01:10:44   they'll, you know, they'll,

01:10:46   they'll start to have an understanding of what makes a,

01:10:49   a serial show bingeable, what makes it hold people's attention.

01:10:54   There's all kinds of really well-known lessons in crafting shows that Apple's

01:10:59   just, they're learning now. They're there.

01:11:01   It's not fair to assume that they should know this.

01:11:04   So the nice thing is Apple has these deep pockets and they're definitely not going to turn the

01:11:10   switch off. Like, you know, Google does famously turns off projects that don't make sense to

01:11:16   somebody. Apple's, I don't believe there. I believe that Apple TV plus is, has a really long

01:11:23   lifespan. And that means that we'll get more, more products and they'll start to have a back catalog,

01:11:29   which is going to take time to do, and they'll also have better quality products as they go.

01:11:35   Well, I'm a big believer in—I can't take credit for it—it's

01:11:40   Peter Kafka's theory. Peter Kafka, who writes about the media at Recode, he was on my show

01:11:47   like half a year ago, and we were talking about it. I love his theory, which is that

01:11:53   strategically for Apple, a big part of the TV+ is nothing to do with whatever

01:12:00   money they will actually make from TV+, but it's to get people using the Apple TV

01:12:06   app and that explains why they're willing to put it on Samsung TVs and LG

01:12:12   TVs and Amazon's boxes because once you're in the TV app, which is where you

01:12:21   have to go to watch TV plus and I think giving it away quote unquote free to

01:12:27   everybody buys a device and giving it away free you know which isn't really

01:12:31   free to all these students paying five dollars a month all of it you know sure

01:12:35   it gets you watching TV plus and sure maybe eventually you're not going to

01:12:38   have a free subscription and you will pay five dollars a month but once you're

01:12:41   in that Apple TV app on your phone on your tablet on your actual TV set you're

01:12:48   You're right there next to those channels that they've talked about and hasn't really

01:12:53   gotten a lot of attention, but which is a way to get you to pay for other things like

01:13:00   CBS All Access where you have to go to watch the Star Trek shows.

01:13:04   And presumably that's where the Disney+ thing will be because apparently, you know, Disney

01:13:09   and Apple are going to make this work somehow, you know, financially where you'll be able

01:13:14   to sign up for the Disney streaming thing.

01:13:17   pretty much everybody but Netflix. You can get right there in the channels thing and

01:13:23   Apple gets a cut of that. And it's not 30 from the big ones. They're certainly not going to get 30%

01:13:28   from Disney, but they're going to get something and you get a little bit here and a little bit

01:13:32   there and all of a sudden it adds up to a lot. But you're not going to get them to sign up for

01:13:38   Disney+ unless they're using the TV app and to get them to... So I kind of like it. I mean,

01:13:44   effectively it's, I'm not going to call it Trojan Horse, but it's sort of like the whole,

01:13:47   maybe the main point of TV+ isn't to get you to sign up for TV+, but it's to get you in the TV

01:13:52   app in the first place where you will sign up for channels, maybe. That's really interesting. I have

01:13:58   not heard that theory before. Is it that, so do you think people who don't use the TV app now

01:14:06   will be forced to use the TV app when, basically November 1st in a couple of days? I don't think,

01:14:13   well to do what to watch tv plus yeah i think you have to you have to go through the tv app

01:14:19   yeah i don't think there's any other way to do it and now you can get that app on your apple products

01:14:24   and you can get that app now on your um i forget if they're on the the roku or not uh but i know

01:14:31   they're on the amazon uh sticks fire stick fire stick and they're on the you know the ones that

01:14:37   are the partnerships where they're built into some of the tv sets are already rolling out

01:14:43   Yeah, as far as I know, unless I'm missing something, the only way to watch Apple TV

01:14:48   Plus is the Apple's original content shows is to use the Apple TV app on whatever platform

01:14:54   you want.

01:14:55   But then you're already right there and ready, you know, right there like a couple of taps

01:14:59   away from...

01:15:02   And you're obviously already signed in.

01:15:04   The only way you can watch TV Plus is to be signed into your Apple ID.

01:15:06   So you're already right there, just a couple of taps on whatever remote control you use

01:15:10   for your device or whatever screen you're on from signing up for CBS All Access or something

01:15:16   like that because you want to watch the new Picard show or, or you know, the Disney thing

01:15:20   or whatever. So Netflix, even though you can't sign up for Netflix on the Apple TV because

01:15:27   for obvious reasons, Netflix doesn't want to share their revenues with Apple. You can

01:15:31   still watch Netflix on your Apple TV plus or on the Apple TV app. No, not, not through

01:15:40   the TV app? Well, when I when I launch my Apple TV, and I'm not I don't spend a lot of time thinking

01:15:48   about the TV app. So I could be wrong about the way this works. But when I fire up my Apple TV,

01:15:53   I think I'm in the TV app by default, because there's two sort of default. No, well, I don't

01:15:58   know, I play. Maybe I have mine set up differently. I go to write to the home screen. I don't know.

01:16:02   Maybe they are in the TV app. I don't know. I don't know. But you certainly can sign up for it there.

01:16:07   And you know, in Apple's interest is you signing up for quote unquote channels.

01:16:11   And I think that that strategy explains the weird

01:16:16   everybody walked out of that March event holding their head like,

01:16:20   why didn't they show us previews and why?

01:16:23   What the hell is the difference between channels TV plus, you know,

01:16:26   you know, why did you know?

01:16:28   But the channel's product is all about other people's content,

01:16:31   but it's other people's content in a way that Apple gets a taste of the

01:16:36   the subscription money. Right? It's not. That's the whole point of channels, obviously, is so

01:16:43   that you if you're going to watch CBS all access or sign up for Hulu or something like that,

01:16:49   you know that you're going to do it through TV and Apple gets some kind of cut.

01:16:53   All right. So let me ask you this question about sort of related to the Apple TV plus discussion.

01:17:00   What do you think are the biggest in your just right off the top of your head? What do you

01:17:06   think are the biggest streaming services, the most important streaming services? Is Netflix still the

01:17:12   big dog? Oh, of course. I'm sure I don't even think it's close. I would guess I'm talking right out of

01:17:18   my right. That's, that's, that's fine. I would guess I would guess Netflix in terms of eyeballs.

01:17:25   The only thing you could compare it to is YouTube. And that's not an app that is an apples to oranges

01:17:30   comparison, right? YouTube is its own beast. Unlike anything else, there is nothing else to compare

01:17:36   YouTube too, except for the fact that you have to zoom out to the level of, "Hey, we're

01:17:43   all human beings and we only get 24 hours a day, and so you can only watch so much at

01:17:48   once." Even though my son usually watches two things at once. So you can double it to

01:17:55   some degree by playing video games while you watch a second screen. But nobody talks about

01:18:02   the third screen, right? I mean, I'm sure it's somewhere out there. There's some poor

01:18:05   kid with a tension rattled brain who's got a third screen propped up. But for the most

01:18:12   part people talk about the second screen for good reason. But anyway, we still only have

01:18:15   so many hours in a day. You can only watch so many YouTube, even if you only watch YouTube

01:18:20   or only watch Netflix, you can't even keep up with the new content. So let's put YouTube

01:18:24   out of it because they're not in that streaming or YouTube that I'm talking about isn't about

01:18:30   Absolutely. So who's second?

01:18:32   I think Netflix consumes more hours of attention than all of the others combined, would be my guest.

01:18:39   HBO plus Hulu plus Prime plus whatever else. And if they don't, they're still so much bigger, you know, it's hard to compare.

01:18:49   But now we've got Disney+ coming, right?

01:18:51   Right.

01:18:52   November 14th or whenever the drop date is.

01:18:55   Right.

01:18:56   That's, and Disney Plus, I think more than everybody,

01:19:01   but maybe HBO, but even bigger than HBO, maybe.

01:19:06   Certainly comparable to HBO.

01:19:07   They have the back catalog of all back catalogs.

01:19:11   They have, I think, the most valuable

01:19:12   back catalog of anybody.

01:19:14   - Well, they're like the ones,

01:19:16   they're the one company that's famously valued

01:19:18   their back catalog, right?

01:19:20   They call it the Disney Vault,

01:19:21   and they've called it that, you know,

01:19:23   it's not just about the streaming era.

01:19:25   called out about that back when movies you only were seen in movie theaters.

01:19:28   Like when you had Bambi, right? They famously didn't put those movies out on VHS or when they

01:19:36   did it, they made a huge deal out of it. Like, so VHS became a big deal and you could buy movies

01:19:41   and watch them at home whenever you wanted to. And it was a huge deal and I was super,

01:19:46   super excited about it. Like, and somehow I've told this story, I think years ago on the show,

01:19:50   But my friend JD growing up somehow got an illegal copy.

01:19:56   His dad seemed hooked up into that sort of market where JD's dad knew a guy who knew

01:20:00   a guy.

01:20:01   And he had a VHS copy of Raiders of the Lost Ark before Raiders of the Lost Ark was commercially

01:20:06   available on VHS.

01:20:08   Like how this thing came into being and how a copy of it ended up at my friend JD's house,

01:20:13   I don't know.

01:20:15   for years if it was like a Saturday and it was rainy or cold and so we couldn't

01:20:23   go outside and play sports JD would call and he'd say you want to watch Raiders

01:20:28   and I'd say sure and I'd go down to JD's house and we'd watch Raiders of the Lost

01:20:31   Ark and I swear to God that was it was the only movie it wasn't like you want

01:20:35   to come down my house and watch a movie it was do you want to watch Raiders and

01:20:39   I'd come down and we would watch Raiders of the Lost Ark which is still to this

01:20:42   Day is one of my favorite movies of all time. But there's no movie, no movie, not Star Wars,

01:20:49   not like Monty Python, not any of the movies that, you know, people of my generation have watched

01:20:54   multiple times. There's no movie that I have every line of dialogue committed to memory like I do

01:20:58   Raiders of the Lost Ark. But anyway, Disney at the time, even when people started making, studios

01:21:05   started making all of this extra money, you know, they were still doing their budgets based on what

01:21:10   they thought they'd make from the theaters and then they'd make extra money by selling VHS tapes

01:21:14   for and they were expensive. Do you remember how it was like 60 or 70 bucks to buy to buy a movie on

01:21:20   VHS? And they would do a thing where they would say this is going to be we're going to start

01:21:25   selling it on this date and we're going to stop selling it on this date and that's it and and they

01:21:29   were they were good to their word they when they stopped selling it they they those copies dried up

01:21:34   You couldn't buy it anywhere. Yeah, and Disney for decades would just re-release, you know

01:21:40   I remember going to see Peter Pan in the theater and you know, Peter Pan had been out for 40 years

01:21:44   But they did like a big, you know, as though it was a brand new movie

01:21:48   They're like look you haven't we haven't let you see this for 20 years, but here it is

01:21:52   1978 or 9 or whatever it was Peter Pan back in theaters and you know, I go to see it

01:21:59   So so the point is that Disney Plus has they have Star Wars they have they have such a massive

01:22:05   Catalog all the Pixar stuff. They have The Simpsons, right? Isn't that Disney Plus? Oh all the people under you people

01:22:12   Disney is such a strong brand people don't

01:22:14   People who don't pay attention to like whoa

01:22:18   Is it the Paramount logo or the Columbia logo or the 20th Century Fox logo that comes up before the movie starts?

01:22:26   People under I might underestimate just how big the 20th Century Fox Library is of

01:22:31   huge hit movies

01:22:33   So they have they have this back catalog that will crush everybody else so you could and and Jim Dalrymple who you know

01:22:40   We do the podcast that the Dalrymple report every week Jim famously has no interest in Disney Plus

01:22:46   but I think they will have a

01:22:48   Massive following that will I think rival Netflix because it's so cheap, right?

01:22:55   Right? And they, I think they're setting the bar, they're setting the price for this market.

01:23:00   We're, you know, all you can eat for this price. Why would you go spend twice that? And HBO has

01:23:08   divided up all their services. Disney+ is everything. HBO has HBO Go and HBO Now and HBO

01:23:15   Max and HBO. And I couldn't tell you what the four things, what's different about them all.

01:23:22   One of them is live HBO, obviously, but the rest are different takes on their HBO back catalog.

01:23:28   Trenton Larkin Yeah, and HBO Go is the one I use because I still have a cable subscription

01:23:33   that includes HBO. So it's they're so screwed up in their back end. I think they had to I don't

01:23:39   think it's because they're inept. I think it's because of the weird contracts they're in with

01:23:44   cable providers, right, right. That they are separate services there. So HBO Go is what you go

01:23:52   and sign up for if you already have access to HBO through your cable subscription, old

01:23:57   school cable, then you get the HBO Go app and somehow sign in through your cable provider

01:24:03   and now you can watch shows on demand in the app. And that's what I use because I have

01:24:07   it. And then the other one is, is HBO if you don't have your accord cutter, and you'd need

01:24:14   you need to pay HBO directly to get HBO. But somehow

01:24:18   Is that HBO now? Yeah, I think that's HBO now and suppose HBO HBO max is a different thing

01:24:24   All right, HBO max is their new thing, but it's very confusing

01:24:27   But it's 15 bucks a month for HBO say HBO max

01:24:31   You don't get all the HBO with it. So 15 bucks and Disney is what is Disney like?

01:24:37   8 bucks 99 or 799. Yeah

01:24:40   7 or 8 bucks and

01:24:42   And now at some point, as you said, you have so many hours in the day,

01:24:47   at some point you got to choose, you know, you could,

01:24:49   there are people who certainly will buy all the subscriptions, but for,

01:24:54   I would say for millennials certainly, and for many people, they,

01:24:58   they look at their numbers and say, well,

01:25:00   what can I afford to spend and what am I going to do? And they'll say,

01:25:03   I'm going to pick two things to buy. Well, where I think we're going to start to

01:25:07   see consolidation and elimination. We're going to start to see, um,

01:25:12   Different subscription services go out of you know, basically they'll have to drop their price I think to compete. Yeah, I don't know

01:25:18   It'll be interesting. Yeah, and Apple is in a unique position where they really don't have to

01:25:25   They don't have to make as much money from the $4.99 a month

01:25:30   Apple TV plus subscriptions to pay for the shows that they're producing because that's right

01:25:35   That's the difference with with Apple

01:25:38   So you can't really compare their price to Disney's and say well

01:25:41   Why would I spend five dollars for a handful of shows versus eight dollars for the world's biggest treasure trove of content?

01:25:48   Well, if you're only going to choose one sure choose Disney

01:25:51   But Apple's willing to go, you know

01:25:55   Have a lot of back doors that you can get Apple TV plus content for quote unquote free just to go that

01:26:01   That's why I think Netflix is the big dog now, right?

01:26:06   I think Netflix is gonna feel the squeeze eventually because their catalog is good, but it doesn't compete with Disney's

01:26:13   And their kids, you know, you can't underestimate the kids market, you know

01:26:17   And that Disney has you know for strategic reasons has pulled all of their stuff from Netflix like everything on

01:26:22   Everybody knows that stuff that isn't Netflix original content drifts in and out of the Netflix

01:26:29   Oh, they've you know now you can watch old James Bond movies on Netflix again

01:26:33   but only until March and then they're going to go away again.

01:26:36   Um, without the Disney stuff in there, it's,

01:26:39   Netflix is a lot less compelling for kids. Although I have to admit I have,

01:26:42   you know, my son's 15 and close to 16. I haven't really looked for like,

01:26:46   you know, stuff that five and six year olds watch.

01:26:49   Add to that a lot of those five and six year old kids. Well, a lot like,

01:26:54   I don't know if your son did this,

01:26:55   but a lot of those teenagers and older kids now grew up with the Disney

01:27:00   channel. And so all those shows like sweet life of Zach and Cody, or I don't, I don't,

01:27:05   I've named the only show I can think of, but there's a bunch of Disney shows that kids feel

01:27:09   great nostalgia for. And that makes the catalog valuable. So I think Netflix is number one now.

01:27:15   Apple, you have to include Apple in the short list of streaming services that are going to survive

01:27:21   and be around for the long haul and Disney plus clearly, but now you get to HBO and,

01:27:28   and you wonder are they going to get squeezed out or or will we have enough room for the four and

01:27:34   then is it can we have enough room for 10 giant streaming services is hulu gonna have a problem

01:27:40   you know hbo is sort of the apple of original content where they're smaller they have fewer

01:27:46   subscribers you know compared to broadcast cable networks and they've always gotten by

01:27:51   fundamentally on the very simple notion that their stuff is better. You know, that's their

01:27:58   slogan. It's not TV. It's I forget which way it goes. If it's it's not TV, it's HBO. Yeah.

01:28:05   And it's true from in my opinion, you know, like, their original shows really set the bar. They

01:28:13   created these these shows that are movie quality as opposed to you know that and and you get people

01:28:20   now like, you know, nobody bats an eye that Jennifer Aniston, who's still a big box office star,

01:28:25   is doing, you know, and Steve Carell and Reese Witherspoon would do a TV show like 15, 20 years

01:28:31   ago, that was unheard of, you know, you're a movie star, you were you were in the playing in the

01:28:35   major leagues. And if you're a TV star, you were in like, AAA. Well, it's the decline of movies,

01:28:42   too. I think people don't go to movies nearly as often as they used to because they have all these,

01:28:47   They have great TVs in their living rooms and they have all this content.

01:28:52   And for adults, the movies that are getting made aren't like what they used to be. They're really

01:28:57   more, you know, Martin Scorsese drew criticism, but I think he was very right where he was,

01:29:01   he wasn't being disdainful. Like that's the thing is that if you just read the headline,

01:29:05   you think Martin Scorsese took a shit on the Marvel franchise. But he didn't take a shit on

01:29:11   them. All he was saying, you know, when he compared them to theme parks and from what he's talking

01:29:16   about cinema as being they are but theme park he's not saying theme parks aren't a hell of a lot of

01:29:22   fun they are fun they're great to go to but it's not you know it's not cinema uh right you can you

01:29:30   can love and i i like the the the the marvel franchise very much i don't like every one of

01:29:37   them but you know but i i overall like it a lot i i tend to go to see them in the actual theaters

01:29:44   but I tend to, you know, one of the reasons I go to the theater to see the like Avengers movies and

01:29:49   stuff like that is because it is sort of like a theme park and you want to see it real big

01:29:53   and super loud, you know. It's not at all like an adult drama and a lot of that stuff is moved to TV

01:30:01   shows. Yeah, I think about Goodfellas, which is one of my all-time favorite movies.

01:30:08   the Godfather. There's a theme here, I think. But but I, you know, I love I love those movies and

01:30:15   and they're but they're, they're different than the entertainment that is more generally available

01:30:20   now and is being produced now. Nothing like nothing like the Marvel movies. But I can't

01:30:25   get Are you excited about the Irishman? We can't mention Scorsese and Goodfellas and not mention

01:30:31   that I and we're talking about Netflix. I hope I hope it's as good as it could be. Well,

01:30:38   Well, the reviews are excellent, really, really excellent.

01:30:41   But so Netflix is in its position where they've gotten so big that they're literally bankrolling

01:30:49   100 million plus dollar budget Martin Scorsese movies with all these stars.

01:30:56   And it is, you know, it's these weird, just the way rules hang on, like to be considered

01:31:02   for an Oscar, it has to have like an exclusive period where it's playing on actual movie

01:31:06   theaters screens.

01:31:07   So the Irishman will be in movie theaters exclusively

01:31:11   before it's on Netflix, even though Netflix

01:31:14   with most of their stuff, as soon as it's ready,

01:31:16   there it is, stream it all.

01:31:18   Here's 10 episodes of our show.

01:31:20   You can watch them all tonight.

01:31:21   - Do you think that in say 10 years,

01:31:24   do you think the Oscars will exist anymore?

01:31:26   Do you think they'll always be the Oscars?

01:31:28   Or will it change?

01:31:29   - No, they'll figure out a way.

01:31:31   I think there's always gonna be movies.

01:31:32   I mean, whether they're gonna maintain the rule

01:31:35   it has to be in a cinema theater before you know to be I'm sure they'll change the rules for of

01:31:42   consideration but I think the Oscars will remain because I don't think I who knows I could be

01:31:47   wrong but I don't think movies will stop and I don't think being a movie star will stop being

01:31:51   the thing I just think it's shifting I just think that the shift from actual theater theaters to

01:31:59   watching more and more first run movies on home theaters is inevitable and

01:32:05   It's fine. I mean part of that is me being older

01:32:09   I mean like the social aspect like when I was a teenager going to movie with a bunch of friends was like the best

01:32:14   That was just yeah, absolutely

01:32:16   Fantastic like I specifically remember

01:32:19   Like which theater in the area we went to see

01:32:24   Diehard we're at you know, I remember the theater was the Fox North theater in in Reading Pennsylvania where I saw Diehard

01:32:30   Just it was like this that was living for me

01:32:36   You know that this is living the high life is being like a 13 year old going to see an r-rated

01:32:41   Excellent classic who knew we didn't know it at the time

01:32:45   But you know an excellent adventure movie like Diehard in a big theater with all my pals, you know

01:32:51   that was great now I'm a crufty old man I want to be left alone and I want to watch movies in the

01:32:57   privacy of my own home and you you also want subtitles and you want to be able to pause it

01:33:02   when you want to pause it right oh yeah yeah cuz I can't hold my I can't hold my urine for that

01:33:07   long yeah well that's fair I mean that is a thing I guess I can I do still go to theaters and I and

01:33:15   I want to meet I'll go see Star Wars when it opens you know I but I have to like strategically plan

01:33:20   my caffeine intake before going to the movies so that I'm not afraid to be.

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01:36:31   Anyway, my thanks to Linode for sponsoring the show. I don't know how we segue. How do

01:36:36   we segue there, Dave, from the AirPods to the streaming stuff? It was seamless. I don't

01:36:42   remember doing it. I don't remember doing it, but we went seamlessly. Is there anything

01:36:46   more on the AirPods that we have left to talk about? I don't want to keep moving down the

01:36:50   list but...

01:36:51   You know, hang on, let me go back to your piece because that's really where I was drawing.

01:36:56   Right.

01:36:57   So the force sensor that, so there's like a flat section on the earbud stem that faces

01:37:05   forward, right?

01:37:06   Right.

01:37:07   The best way to think about it is like the new, the second generation Apple Pencil, the

01:37:10   way there's a flat side of the Apple Pencil.

01:37:12   Right.

01:37:13   stem of the AirPods Pro Buds, some of this pluralization is tough, is sort of like that.

01:37:27   It's not quite because it's not flat all the way, it kind of goes back to round at the

01:37:30   very end. But I think it's the closest I can come to describing it. There's a flat part

01:37:36   of it that's very distinct, you can feel it, I'm feeling one right now, it's very flat.

01:37:40   And it faces forward when you have them in your ears.

01:37:44   So you just pinch it and it feels like a button.

01:37:47   - And it plays a click as you were describing before,

01:37:50   but it plays it in whatever ear you're touching, right?

01:37:53   - Yep, so if you click the button,

01:37:56   put that in quotes if you want,

01:37:57   click the button on your left AirPods Pro Bud,

01:38:01   it'll play a click sound in your left ear.

01:38:04   And the latency is so low and so responsive

01:38:07   to the actual squeeze of your attempted click

01:38:10   that it, I swear it's gonna, maybe it's just me,

01:38:13   I don't know, I haven't talked to other people,

01:38:14   but I swear it, you'll be convinced that the button,

01:38:18   it's actually an actual button that actually clicks.

01:38:21   - So another piece of this is the sort of ear,

01:38:25   the things that go in your ear canal

01:38:28   that have small, medium, and large, right?

01:38:31   - Yes, the tips. - What do you call the tips?

01:38:32   - They're called tips.

01:38:33   - Yeah, so the tips actually,

01:38:37   like in most AirPod or EarPod type things,

01:38:42   they sort of, you have to sort of squeeze them on

01:38:45   and turn them until you just get them to fit onto the thing

01:38:49   and then you put them in your ears.

01:38:50   But these like click on, right?

01:38:53   - And the base, the part that connects is oval shaped.

01:38:57   They're not spherical or not round, not circles.

01:39:00   They are, they're ovals.

01:39:02   And so there's no upside or downside,

01:39:05   but you just orient the oval the right way.

01:39:07   It's pretty obvious, and then you press it in,

01:39:09   and it clicks in, and the click is very clicky.

01:39:13   And I've taken them on and off quite a bit in the last day

01:39:16   because I've tried multiple sizes of the tips,

01:39:20   and I had my son try multiple sizes of the tips.

01:39:22   And once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy.

01:39:26   But the clicking it on,

01:39:27   it never seems to be like halfway on.

01:39:30   It's a lot.

01:39:34   Physically it doesn't resemble it at all, but it's in the way that Apple obviously spent

01:39:38   a lot of time on every one of their Apple Watch straps that the whatever it is that

01:39:44   connects it, it's very clearly connected.

01:39:49   Do you know what I mean?

01:39:50   Yeah, no I do.

01:39:51   That was what I was asking you.

01:39:52   So it like clicks into place.

01:39:54   Yeah.

01:39:55   It snaps in.

01:39:56   And it seems like it's impossible to do it wrong.

01:40:00   And to me, wrong would be like, I've had things, not necessarily earbuds in particular, but

01:40:06   sometimes with putting earbuds on where it's like you're not certain whether you got it

01:40:09   on right, or maybe you got half of it on, like there's two tabs that are both supposed

01:40:14   to click into place and you only click the one in.

01:40:18   And so it's, you heard a click, it's on, but inadvertently unknown to you, it's really

01:40:24   only half on, it might come off.

01:40:26   It doesn't seem like that's possible.

01:40:27   either clicks in if it clicks it's in and if it doesn't click you don't have it on yet.

01:40:31   So have you listened to music on these things yet? Yes. Okay so if you were going to compare,

01:40:39   I don't know if you can do this, but can you compare the AirPods with the AirPods Pro? Is

01:40:43   there, do you have any sense of are they the same musically? I'm not, I don't want to pass

01:40:48   judgment on that and I'm not trying to be coy or I just don't have audio file,

01:40:57   I don't know. They both sound good to me. And the difference I hear isn't in what I'm able to judge

01:41:03   and perceive and describe and put into words is the noise canceling type part. And this sound

01:41:12   makes the music sound good or rich or the bass is too high or something like that. I'm not really

01:41:17   good at it. I can't really say. I thought music sounded great with them. But the difference between

01:41:23   them and regular AirPods to me is... That's fine. I won't put you on the hook. I was more

01:41:30   curious if there was... So at the very least... For me, it's like this. Imagine you have two

01:41:36   pieces of ham. Okay. I'm imagining it. All right. And on the one piece of ham,

01:41:46   you dump an entire container of salt.

01:41:49   And now you want me to tell you

01:41:52   which is the better piece of ham.

01:41:54   I can't tell you 'cause all I can taste is the salt, right?

01:41:58   - Okay.

01:41:58   - That to me is noise cancellation.

01:42:00   Like so to me, comparing the regular AirPods

01:42:03   to the AirPods Pro, all I can think about

01:42:06   is the noise cancellation aspects

01:42:08   and the transparency aspects.

01:42:09   Like I'm just not good.

01:42:11   And in general, even if you didn't dump the salt,

01:42:13   I'm not real good at telling you like,

01:42:16   I don't know, this ham tastes good and this ham tastes bad,

01:42:19   but I can't tell you what it is about this ham

01:42:21   that tastes good that's different

01:42:22   from this other ham that tastes good, at least with music.

01:42:25   Well, with ham, I'd actually probably be better at it.

01:42:28   - But it's fair to say that when you're spending the $250,

01:42:32   you're really paying for the, I mean, the splash resistance.

01:42:37   - Well, I don't know.

01:42:38   - Which has value and the noise canceling.

01:42:41   - I honestly don't know.

01:42:42   I'm such a bad judge of this.

01:42:45   I just don't, I don't know.

01:42:48   I don't have strong opinions on the, you know,

01:42:50   like Marco Arment, for example.

01:42:52   So for all I know, maybe,

01:42:54   I don't wanna say it one way or the other.

01:42:55   Maybe people who do have very discerning taste

01:42:58   in the music reproduction of headphones

01:43:01   and can say things like,

01:43:03   "Rock and roll, classic rock and roll,

01:43:04   "sounds great on these headphones,

01:43:06   "but classical music is really ruined

01:43:08   "because the treble is so weak

01:43:11   "or it loses the woodwinds," or something like that.

01:43:14   I don't know how to talk about music like that.

01:43:17   But for all I know, people like that will put these in

01:43:19   and say, these are fantastic.

01:43:21   The music reproduction blows away the other AirPods.

01:43:24   Forget about the noise cancellation.

01:43:25   I don't know.

01:43:26   - At the very least, you're getting the noise cancellation

01:43:30   and the splash resistance and the other,

01:43:32   you know, the transparent mode.

01:43:34   - I think music sounds great.

01:43:35   It sounds very good to me.

01:43:36   - And music may be another bonus.

01:43:38   We just don't know yet until we hear

01:43:39   from more of an audio file type review.

01:43:42   - I would guess from anybody's review though

01:43:44   that by the standards of earbuds, wireless earbuds,

01:43:47   or earbuds in general, really,

01:43:49   that they're very good sounding.

01:43:52   I mean- - Plus they're sealed better.

01:43:54   - Right.

01:43:55   Way better.

01:43:57   I mean, it's like night and day.

01:43:58   So I would think that people who really care

01:44:01   about the music reproduction would prefer these

01:44:03   to regular AirPods, but I don't wanna pass judgment on it.

01:44:06   - And the case, as far as,

01:44:11   One thing I heard was that the case stays open.

01:44:15   I don't know if you ever did this thing,

01:44:18   but there's a thing that for a while

01:44:20   people did with their original.

01:44:22   - It does, I see that.

01:44:24   I have both of mine in front of me right now.

01:44:26   - So let me ask you this question.

01:44:28   With the old AirPods cases, what people used to do,

01:44:31   and I've done it, but it's just not good enough

01:44:33   with the original AirPods, you know,

01:44:35   with the even Gen 2 case, it doesn't stay open.

01:44:38   And you could, if you opened it,

01:44:40   could put your iPhone on the short end and lean it back against the bigger piece so you have like a

01:44:47   little cheapo iPhone stand. I don't know if this makes sense. Yeah, I've seen people talk about

01:44:55   that but do you have to put it like upside down? No, you put it with this with the opening face up

01:45:01   and then you open it so it bends so it makes a little triangle. I'm trying this right now. And

01:45:06   And then you put the-- and I saw somebody post about this,

01:45:10   and I wondered if the new case, because it stayed open,

01:45:14   would be more stable.

01:45:15   Maybe it is.

01:45:16   Yeah, you can kind of-- yeah.

01:45:18   So you put it--

01:45:19   I wouldn't-- but it still feels like it's going to drop.

01:45:21   I wouldn't want to put my iPhone in there.

01:45:24   It feels like something's going to fall over,

01:45:25   and then it's going to fall on the floor.

01:45:27   I think if you do that, you're going to like this case better,

01:45:32   but I would still never do that.

01:45:34   Yeah, I was just curious.

01:45:36   But it does open so what what's the or it does stay open? What's the purpose of it staying open?

01:45:41   Is it I don't think any sense of it. I don't playing with it right here in front of me

01:45:45   I don't think that's a function of that. They did that on purpose. I think that it's just because it's shorter

01:45:51   you know, it's shorter and wider and so because

01:45:54   That access of the triangle when it's open is shorter. It it doesn't have the

01:46:02   It it doesn't close the clasp the way that the other one does. Okay, and how about go ahead? Sorry? No

01:46:10   It's an it's an interesting question, but I think it's just the nature that it's such a different dimensioned case

01:46:16   You know

01:46:19   Effectively if you want to compare the two cases you have to turn the new one on the side

01:46:22   Because it's so much wider and so much squatter

01:46:26   That it's only when you turn it on the side. Do they look like they're roughly in the same XY and C dimensions

01:46:32   Interesting. How about the the

01:46:35   Does the interior of the

01:46:39   sort of imagine the area around where your air pod is gonna drop so that you know

01:46:44   It's sort of a the opening but the area the shelf around the opening

01:46:48   Is that look the same on the old case and the new case or is there like a piece of?

01:46:53   Material there. I had it looked like it could be that from the pictures I saw

01:46:59   The hinge is bigger. There's a more of it's um, and the hinge sticks up. It's it's quite different

01:47:06   I mean you would never ever confuse the two cases

01:47:08   I mean, it's just very different but it you know, it seems to open and shut about the same, you know here. Oh, here's the one

01:47:14   Here's the other

01:47:16   You know, they sound the same they do. Yeah

01:47:19   It is one thing that's a little different and takes getting used to is on the old one the stems

01:47:27   Are go in in the center of the case and in the new one the stems go in on the outside and

01:47:33   so I I trust thing I keep trying to put them in the wrong way because I've got two or three years of

01:47:40   Habit the other way. Oh the other thing I said I did I forgot

01:47:44   I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my review. Here's my first original observation on the show

01:47:48   The new air pods Pro are way easier to get in and out of the case or at least out of the case

01:47:55   Like there's no you just come in from the back and and pull them out

01:47:59   There what you don't have to kind of pop them out you can just pinch them and they come right out

01:48:04   so you do you do you have the

01:48:07   More of an ability to grab onto them as your thumb and forefinger

01:48:11   Yes, if you come in from the back you have way more of an ability to grab onto them with your thumb and forefinger

01:48:16   Don't do it side to side do it back to front and that they come right out

01:48:22   Interesting. Well, I can't wait to get mine. Did you pre-order? I did not because I don't do that. I

01:48:28   I'm just slow

01:48:30   Well, you're gonna you're gonna get can you get the other air pods engraved or is it only the air pods Pro that you can?

01:48:36   Get engraved. I mine I'm looking at my gen 2 and mine says dark mode Dave

01:48:41   I really like and I'm gonna do the same

01:48:44   But I maybe I'll have to say dark mode Dave Pro or see I get paralyzed by a decision like that

01:48:49   that. Like, I don't know. I don't know what to get engraved. See, like, my wife wouldn't

01:48:54   hesitate. If my wife's going to get something engraved, she's going to get her initials,

01:48:57   and that's it. There she goes. She, you know, uh, whereas me, it's like, what should I do?

01:49:03   Should I do something cute? Should I see? Should I type in, like, the Unicode symbol

01:49:07   for the star and circle and see if they'll print that on them? Should I like that, actually?

01:49:12   Should I just have it say Gruber? I'm going to guess that they don't let you. I think

01:49:16   I tried to get something, you know, Apple's been offering engraved stuff since the iPods at some point

01:49:21   I did try that and it was like special characters are not allowed

01:49:25   I'd say live on the edge because you know that in a year you're gonna have something new. So yeah

01:49:31   It'll be a short-term thing. If you don't like it, they'll be you'll live with it for a short term

01:49:35   And it's not gonna affect the functionality. I mean

01:49:37   One question a couple people had a friends, you know, but a friends asked whether there would be

01:49:45   Whether Apple is going to release the specs for the connectors for the tips so that third parties could make tips

01:49:51   Interesting and

01:49:54   I can think of two reasons for that one would be

01:49:58   what if

01:50:00   You don't like the feel of any of the three tips that Apple provides and it seems to me like they're small medium and large

01:50:07   are pretty

01:50:09   At first glance they look pretty close and then when you start thinking about how how they feel

01:50:14   You can kind of feel the difference, you know

01:50:16   Like when I tried the small ones it they definitely felt loose in my ear and I wasn't surprised at all that the that the software

01:50:22   ear fit test

01:50:24   Said hey, you should try a different size

01:50:27   But maybe there's you know, I'm sure there's you know out of you know

01:50:32   How many people are on the planet now Dave for seven billion eight billion? What are we up something something like that?

01:50:37   you know there surely there's some number of million people who none of the three will fit and they might like a different type of

01:50:44   tip for fit reasons but I would also imagine that much like phone cases

01:50:51   people might enjoy putting colorful tips on and both for just sort of the fun of

01:51:01   having your own colored tips and the practical reason of if you know you're

01:51:05   in a family of multiple AirPods Pro users you might want to easily identify

01:51:09   identify who's or who's by the color of the tips.

01:51:12   I like that idea. Actually. There's also what if you lose them? Right.

01:51:16   You want to have extras? Well, the losing them thing I asked Apple about,

01:51:20   and so I don't think you can buy them yet as far as I'd searched and I couldn't,

01:51:23   but they said that they are going,

01:51:24   they said that they were going to sell them replacement tips and that they would

01:51:28   be cheap and they actually use the word cheap and I don't know,

01:51:31   I ever heard someone from Apple ever use the word cheap before I read somewhere

01:51:36   four dollars. Yeah, I published that piece. So, yeah, they, because I was like, you got to tell

01:51:41   me how cheap, how cheap is cheap, because Apple's version of cheap, maybe not be cheap. And then they

01:51:46   were like, we'll get back to you. And then they texted me and they're like, four dollars. I think

01:51:49   it's like three ninety five or something. And I was like, holy crap, that is cheap. So that's

01:51:54   great. So if you do lose them or you wear them out and who knows how they're going to wear over time,

01:51:58   you know, if they're going to look gross after a year or something like that, you should be able

01:52:01   to buy if what I was told yesterday is correct, you should be able to get replacements for

01:52:06   four bucks. I asked and didn't get an answer at least yet whether the four bucks gives

01:52:12   you a set of all six, two, small, medium, and large, or whether it's four bucks and

01:52:19   you have to say I'd like two small or two medium or two large. I don't know. But even

01:52:23   if you only get one, you know, if it's four bucks to get two medium tips, that still is

01:52:27   a pretty good deal to me because you probably know what size you need.

01:52:30   Right, right. But on the other hand one of the things Apple told me about the fit test is that that's totally prepared to recommend

01:52:39   to you a

01:52:40   different size for your left ear in your right ear and

01:52:43   So I would hope I mean just you know

01:52:47   Why not it would be great if you got all three for four bucks so that if you like a small in your left and?

01:52:52   A medium in your right you don't have to buy two sets. I

01:52:55   Don't know

01:52:57   But anyway, they're going to sell replacements as for whether they're going to help third parties make them

01:53:02   They had no answer

01:53:03   So I don't know

01:53:04   But I don't think it seems like the sort of engineering problem that the sort of companies that would make third-party

01:53:10   Tips or cases or watch straps, you know that they specialize in figuring stuff like that out

01:53:18   And it doesn't seem like a tricky connector. So I would guess that with or without apples

01:53:23   Help there will be the third party tips for air pods Pro

01:53:27   So so a controversial question. Okay. All right. No, no ask me

01:53:32   I'm just saying I would like credit though in the future when it becomes a thing that people have like hot pink tips and

01:53:38   You know

01:53:40   Washington Nationals

01:53:42   World Championship 2019 tips and stuff like that

01:53:45   I want everybody to say, you know Gruber thought of that before that was a even a thing. I like it

01:53:50   I like it. We'll call them Gruber tips. All right. Controversial you say? So, yeah.

01:53:54   So I've been saying this a long time and I get so much pushback,

01:53:58   especially from Jim when we talk about it on the Dalrymple report. Um,

01:54:02   but I am not a fan of how,

01:54:07   um, disposable the original AirPods have, have become when,

01:54:12   you know, when my battery started to die of the first gen and I, before I got the,

01:54:17   I think my battery started to die about a month before they announced the second gen.

01:54:22   So when the second gen hit, I was like, I was, my finger was hovering over the order button.

01:54:27   My wife was too. My wife is probably in the same boat as you and she wears them to the gym

01:54:32   almost every day. I mean, she wears them to the gym every day. She goes every day. She goes to

01:54:36   the gym and she goes to the gym almost every day or exercises in some ways. And, and she wears them

01:54:40   while she cooks. And you know, she, she really wears them way more than I do. Same with me. I

01:54:45   I wear them when I cook, I wear them when I'm just doing my stuff around the house.

01:54:49   Okay.

01:54:50   So I don't like the fact that there's no way to take them apart.

01:54:57   There's no way for Apple to take them apart as far as I know.

01:54:59   Apple can sort of crush them and retrieve some materials maybe, but they can't open

01:55:06   them, replace the batteries, close them and say, "Here you go," and charge me money.

01:55:11   They charge me money and give me a new set.

01:55:15   don't. So my question is, I saw a text, the Apple put this out in the video, but I saw a text from

01:55:22   Panzer about showing the exploded view of the AirPods Pro, you know, just like every single

01:55:32   component was in this picture, but in an exploded view, you know, you saw everything in it, but it

01:55:37   looked like it opened really cleanly. Like it looked different. I, you know, it just felt like

01:55:43   maybe there's a way that they can actually take this apart and that it's not just filled with

01:55:48   glue, you know, that so that there's no way to open them. And the fact I think part of it for me

01:55:54   was I saw that you could snap off the tips that that they you didn't pull them off like, you know,

01:56:00   they they clicked into place, they snapped into place. And I thought, I wonder if there's

01:56:04   new thinking from Apple on this. And do you have any sense of this at all? Is it exactly the same,

01:56:10   the single piece construction as the old AirPods? I'm going to do this one as a cliffhanger.

01:56:15   And I'm taking a break here to thank our third and final sponsor of the show. Return,

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01:59:53   So what's a cliffhanger then? No, no, this question was asked at the the briefing. And

02:00:02   basically, you know, the story is nothing has changed. There is no, at least according

02:00:08   to Apple representatives yesterday, there is nothing more repairable or battery replacement

02:00:18   or anything like that different between the AirPods Pro Buds and the AirPods first and

02:00:24   second generation.

02:00:27   Does that matter to you at all? Like, do you ever think about it and go, "Ah, that kind

02:00:30   of bugs me that..."

02:00:31   I wrote about it. Somebody quoted a couple of weeks or months ago, I wrote that like,

02:00:35   when this became a thing, I think it was maybe when Jeffrey Fowler wrote a column about the

02:00:41   disposability of AirPods in the Washington Post, somebody wrote a column about it. It's

02:00:48   It's definitely a weird thing when you think about it.

02:00:51   And you know, I'm old enough to remember when all batteries were disposable and replaceable.

02:00:56   Anything you bought that was battery operated took, you know, AAA, AA, CD, whatever happened

02:01:05   to be.

02:01:06   Does anybody know the story on that?

02:01:07   What happened to be better?

02:01:08   I don't.

02:01:09   I don't know.

02:01:10   Or single a what is there?

02:01:11   Is there there's no single a nine volt.

02:01:14   Nine volt. Remember when we were, when I was a kid, at least all the electronic game gizmos

02:01:19   always took nine volt batteries, which I always thought was, I always thought they were cool.

02:01:23   I don't know. Definitely. You know, you had to like snap them into place in a different way.

02:01:27   And one battery would power the whole thing. Smoke detectors. They still take them for good reason,

02:01:33   you know, I guess because they're easily replaceable and obtained. It would seem

02:01:39   crazy back then, like when I would buy those games, what was the company that made them Tyco?

02:01:43   TYCO. I hope tech, Tecmo, I don't know, maybe I don't know. But whatever that, you know, I had a

02:01:50   bunch of those electronic games, they were hesitate to even call them video games, because they didn't

02:01:54   have video, but they were electronic games. It would have been crazy if it if the deal was you

02:02:00   can buy it, and then you just charge it overnight by connecting it to power. And then two years from

02:02:06   now, it'll be garbage and you have to throw it away. That would seem crazy. It just wasn't the

02:02:11   the way things worked and it doesn't seem right. It seems like if the problem with a

02:02:15   pair of AirPods is that the battery, the lithium ion battery has expired itself through going

02:02:24   through it's, you know, by design, you know, not not not prematurely, not a defect in your

02:02:29   unit, but you've used it enough times through enough charge cycles that the lithium ion

02:02:34   battery is no longer useful.

02:02:37   But it's the only thing wrong with it, right? It's the only thing that works perfectly,

02:02:41   - Right, but that's it.

02:02:43   What you do is you, I guess what you're supposed to do

02:02:45   is take them into the Apple store

02:02:46   and say you wanna recycle them

02:02:47   and then they'll do the right thing.

02:02:51   I've never done that, I have to say.

02:02:55   I just put stuff like that in a drawer.

02:02:57   I mean, I guess it's partly my pack rat attitude.

02:03:00   If I had a pair of AirPods,

02:03:01   I guess I still have my wife's

02:03:03   that don't really hold a charge,

02:03:04   my wife's original AirPods.

02:03:06   They're just in a drawer in a box somewhere.

02:03:10   I guess I should have taken them to the Apple store

02:03:12   and said I'd like to recycle these.

02:03:14   But that seems like a weird thing to do.

02:03:16   It's like, I don't know.

02:03:18   It's not great, but nobody else makes earbuds of this size.

02:03:23   You know, like I'm not,

02:03:24   I hope that Apple is working hard to address it

02:03:28   as soon as they can.

02:03:30   Is that a thing that is like two, three years in the future?

02:03:33   Is it a 10-year problem?

02:03:35   I don't know.

02:03:36   I hope it's on their radar.

02:03:37   if they really mean institutionally what they say about,

02:03:42   you know, their environmental concerns,

02:03:44   they certainly should be looking at it.

02:03:47   But I also understand where they're coming from.

02:03:49   If like their best concept for a design

02:03:52   that makes the AirPod Buds battery replaceable,

02:03:57   even if it meant getting them officially serviced at Apple,

02:04:02   you know, right, like the way that you can get

02:04:04   your battery replaced in an iPhone.

02:04:06   If their best design for that would make it thicker and heavier and bigger, I could see

02:04:12   why they don't go that route because I think people would, I think that would be less appealing

02:04:17   to people, right?

02:04:18   I think people care more about...

02:04:23   Does it feel like planned obsolescence or does it feel like, I mean, I don't think it's

02:04:31   planned obsolescence because, and I know you can be cynical and say that it is, that of

02:04:35   Of course they designed them so that two years from now you have to buy more.

02:04:38   But I don't think so because I don't think anybody feels good about having $200 earbuds.

02:04:47   You know, that's just round to the midway price of their lineup.

02:04:50   You know, they're roughly 200 bucks.

02:04:53   Nobody feels good about spending $200 on them.

02:04:57   Never once misusing them.

02:04:59   Using them so frequently that the battery wore out, never losing one.

02:05:04   And then two years from now, your best option is to go buy another $200 set of them. Nobody

02:05:10   feels good about that. And so if there were an option to get somebody else's product that

02:05:15   does the same thing in an appealing way, but you wouldn't have to throw it out after two

02:05:20   years, they would do it. So I don't think it's planned obsolescence because I really

02:05:27   do think Apple believes it's in the business of keeping customers happy. People don't

02:05:34   just randomly buy Apple products. You know, it's not some brand X and, you know, people

02:05:39   randomly buy it. So if you can rip them off a little bit and they're not happy with it,

02:05:43   who cares? You already got their money. Apple's in the business of having sustained relationships

02:05:49   with their customers that you're going to like Apple products. And if you're new to

02:05:52   the Apple product family, that system, yeah, to the ecosystem for Yeah, that's the perfect

02:05:59   your first experience, you know, will hopefully be a good one. I mean, there's a story, you know,

02:06:04   to bring it back to baseball. Joe DiMaggio, I forget who he's talking to, but somebody told

02:06:08   the story where towards the end of his career, Joe DiMaggio, he was like, I could be miss telling it,

02:06:15   but it's the way I'll miss tell it is good enough, close enough to the truth. Meaningless game,

02:06:19   late summer, Joe DiMaggio busts his ass to catch a fly ball. Just really, really goes all out in

02:06:26   a meaningless game, a game the Yankees maybe were already way ahead. Somebody, a younger

02:06:30   kid on the team, is, "Joe, why in the hell would you kill yourself to catch that ball?

02:06:34   It doesn't matter." And his answer was, "I know with as many, you know, 50,000 people

02:06:39   in Yankee Stadium, somebody here is watching me play for the first time." And I want them

02:06:47   to know what Joe DiMaggio, how Joe DiMaggio played baseball. Right? So somebody's first

02:06:52   Apple product is there, you know the one that they're buying today

02:06:55   So I think and I think Apple remains cognizant of that and they want that to be a good experience, right?

02:07:00   You're only as good as your first impression if your first Apple product is a stinker. You're not gonna come back

02:07:05   So I don't think it's planned obsolescence. I really don't and the fact that nobody else makes anything in this air pods category

02:07:12   that is

02:07:15   Has replaceable batteries is a sign that I don't think it's possible yet or it's not possible in a way

02:07:21   that would be compelling to customers based on what it would cost or what it would look like

02:07:27   or how heavy it would be or whatever compromises would have to be made because what if what if it

02:07:32   meant like not using glue i mean i think that exploded view is sort of you know it's idealized

02:07:40   right it's of course of course it's and when you compare it to the teardowns that as we speak i

02:07:46   fix it my art might already have since the i guess they shipped today i wouldn't be i guess i fix it i

02:07:51   I didn't look, but probably already has a teardown.

02:07:54   When you look at the actual teardowns,

02:07:55   you see all the glue.

02:07:57   They're sort of a mess inside.

02:07:59   They're not neat and tidy at all.

02:08:01   But they're so small.

02:08:04   They're so small that I think it's excusable.

02:08:06   And when Apple does have room,

02:08:08   like when you open the new Mac Pros

02:08:11   that are supposedly coming any day now,

02:08:13   they're beautiful inside.

02:08:15   Randy Apple's always sort of espoused

02:08:16   that Steve Jobs mantra of, you know,

02:08:19   a good cabinet maker cares what the back of the cabinet looks like, even if it's going

02:08:23   to spend decades up against a wall because he has pride in his work. They care about

02:08:28   the inside of their computers. They always have. So I think the fact that like AirPods

02:08:32   are an ugly, gluey mess inside is just the best that they can do to make them the design

02:08:39   that they are.

02:08:40   So it's opposing forces of Lisa Jackson's environmental, you know, push, which I think

02:08:47   she's great, does a great job of, you know, all the things that Apple does to have to

02:08:53   be sustainable, to good supply chain, no child labor, you know, they clearly are pushing

02:09:00   into all those things and keeping doing what they can to make, to minimize their impact

02:09:06   on the planet. And the opposing force to that would be design. And they're sort of finding

02:09:14   each other here. This is like a front line on that particular battle. And I am a long-time

02:09:20   repairability person. I fix all my computers, every one that I can. I've taken apart every

02:09:28   Mac I've ever owned. I've replaced fans. Used to be able to swap out memory. I've replaced

02:09:34   video cards, drives, taken old drives, put, you know, formatted, replaced with larger drives,

02:09:41   all that kind of stuff. Did you ever do that sort of stuff? Oh sure, you know, probably less than

02:09:46   a lot of, less than you and probably less than an awful lot of people listening to the show,

02:09:52   nodding their head in agreement with you. But yeah, you know, and back in the day, especially,

02:09:58   and you know, it was a combination that as I'm 46 now and as I grew to this age, you know,

02:10:10   I grew up in the era when computers became less serviceable and I was of an age back then

02:10:16   when saving money by buying third-party ram was a meaningful serious difference. I would have a

02:10:24   budget for a new computer and if I bought third-party ram I'd have more ram than if I bought

02:10:31   the ram from Apple and back then too Apple used to really really gouge people. I mean however

02:10:36   high you think Apple's RAM prices are now, you don't know anything compared to like the 90s. I

02:10:41   mean in the 90s it was like, like it was as though you were buying RAM that was like, had like,

02:10:47   gold plated. Yeah, like, like you took it to Tiffany and had them turn it into diamond

02:10:53   crusted jewelry. And hard drives too. It was the same thing. Yeah. And because back then hard

02:10:59   drives would break all the time. I mean, you know, everybody, it's like people of our age

02:11:03   are much better about backups because we're still scarred, right? Like, everybody remembers

02:11:10   a time when you hit Command-S on a document and you heard your hard drive like, "Make

02:11:15   a bad click and stop spitting." You just hear a bad sign. You would just hear a—

02:11:23   Scraping. You would just hear some sort of sound you

02:11:26   never heard your hard drive make before. Or a little tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,

02:11:32   And whether whether you noticed anything on screen or not, maybe everything on screen looked fine. Nothing locked up. Nothing. No beach balls

02:11:40   No, watch cursor everything looks fine

02:11:42   But immediately you would start saving everything closing everything

02:11:46   And you would power down immediately you'd because you heard one bad click out of your hard drive

02:11:51   You would save everything power everything down and immediately take off the the lid to the computer

02:11:58   Take a look inside see if you smell just do I smell anything?

02:12:01   Put it back on put it back on power it up and make

02:12:05   The best backup you had the you had the power to you know the ability to do and that's so good

02:12:12   Immediately in your mind you're thinking where's that Mac connection catalog?

02:12:16   Just because you heard one bad click right so we're taking a picture of my screen before

02:12:24   Camera yeah, or because you had writing on screen, and you're like I don't know if this is gonna get saved

02:12:30   I don't want to lose my rights. Yeah, that's right. So I'm with you I you know, and but I

02:12:34   Don't think apples moved against repairability because they're against repairability

02:12:39   I think that they've moved against it because it's lower on their list of priorities and

02:12:43   You know

02:12:44   It's a recurring theme for me that I mentioned many times over the years that I think vastly overlooked by people

02:12:50   Is that it doesn't just matter what your priorities are. It matters exactly what order they're in

02:12:57   And that you could say our three highest priorities are A, B, and C.

02:13:01   But that makes a big difference.

02:13:03   Even if it seems like A, B, and C are mostly aligned with each other,

02:13:06   it makes a big difference than if you say our three highest priorities are C, B, and A.

02:13:13   You're going to end up making all sorts of different, even though they're the same three priorities,

02:13:17   if C is your highest priority, you are going to make different, very different decisions.

02:13:23   And for Apple, the biggest priority, you could call it design or you could call it experience,

02:13:29   but it's ultimately how nice is this thing?

02:13:32   How nice is the experience of wearing AirPods is still their highest priority.

02:13:36   And they, I do, I don't think they're hypocrites about the environment, but it's a higher priority

02:13:40   than the environment.

02:13:42   But I also think it's changed because it used to be that product was their, you know, their

02:13:49   highest priority.

02:13:51   And then Steve came back and there was that sort of famous, "Now I'm going to simplify

02:13:55   the product line again," with that three by three chart or whatever it was, two by

02:14:00   two chart.

02:14:02   But now, I don't know when it started, but when Facebook really started to become a problem,

02:14:09   I think privacy started to creep up the list till it became maybe their highest priority.

02:14:16   Do you think that's incorrect?

02:14:19   I think that the interesting thing about Apple and privacy is that privacy doesn't interfere

02:14:26   with their other priorities in a way it does for other companies. Because, just to name

02:14:35   an obvious example, Facebook and Google make money through advertising by monetizing their

02:14:43   users' privacy in certain ways. And you know, it's a whole other discussion we don't have

02:14:50   time to even dip our toes into. But because Apple doesn't make any money at all on advertising

02:14:58   based on knowing anything at all about its customers, they can deal with privacy in a

02:15:03   way that doesn't interfere with their priorities. Because obviously our priority for Facebook

02:15:07   and for Google and for Apple, you know, is making money.

02:15:11   Yeah, well said though. I see the difference.

02:15:14   Right. So let's just say, let's just be complete cynics and skeptical about capitalism

02:15:19   and large corporations in general and just agree that one thing that Apple, Facebook

02:15:24   and Google all share in common is that their very highest priority is making money. I'm

02:15:30   not saying I agree with that, but let's just say from the cynical angle that it is,

02:15:35   Apple can approach privacy in a way that doesn't run up against that number one priority of

02:15:42   being profitable and making money in a way that Facebook and Google do.

02:15:45   And Amazon.

02:15:46   There's no opposing forces there.

02:15:47   There's no opposing forces like with the non-replaceable batteries versus taking care of the planet.

02:15:54   That's well said.

02:15:55   Yeah.

02:15:56   And so, you know, wouldn't it be great?

02:15:57   I hope somebody else comes out with some of these wireless earbuds that are totally, you

02:16:03   compelling products that look cool and are coming at a good price and work great and

02:16:09   have easily accessible or easily accessible to the service type minded person batteries,

02:16:14   it would be great and it would force that would force Apple to up its game if somebody

02:16:18   else could do it. But nobody else has done it yet. So I don't even you know, we don't

02:16:21   have proof that it's even possible to, to obviously somebody can make a wireless earbud

02:16:27   that could have a serviceable battery, but we still haven't seen one that is that's also

02:16:32   a compelling consumer product.

02:16:34   Yep, yep, I hear you.

02:16:38   That is the holy grail.

02:16:40   Like, you know, let's be cynical.

02:16:41   Let's just be honest here.

02:16:42   Let's say that I went up to New York yesterday in some alternate universe to find out what

02:16:46   AirPods Pro are and they're still 250 bucks, right?

02:16:53   In our real universe, that's what AirPods Pro are.

02:16:57   But in the alternate universe, the $250 AirPods Pro, the only difference between them and

02:17:04   regular AirPods is that the battery is user serviceable.

02:17:09   They look the same, they sound the same, the case looks the same, but when the battery

02:17:14   wears out two years from now, you could take it into the Apple Store and for $25, come

02:17:19   back the next day or come back two hours later and they have brand new batteries in them.

02:17:24   They wouldn't sell any more of them.

02:17:25   I don't think they'd sell any of them.

02:17:27   If they cost fewer over time, if they cost $250 in the current AirPods sell 100 for 160,

02:17:34   they wouldn't sell any of them. I mean, I guess there's some number I'm not gonna say

02:17:37   they'd sell zero of them. But and I think people would say Apple's lost its mind. I

02:17:41   mean, that's a great feature. But they everybody what everybody would say is, that should just

02:17:46   be the regular new AirPods. And they shouldn't be $250. They should be $160. Like the regular

02:17:51   AirPods. Nobody would see that as a compelling reason to pay more, even though if you really

02:17:56   think about it, the obvious, in theory that's possible that by putting more, making them

02:18:04   in a more expensive way, they could do it, you know, that part of the reason that the

02:18:08   batteries aren't replaceable is the glue is cheap and sealing them up without glue is

02:18:16   more expensive. Anyway, we've gone on long enough. You've got to go get ready for the

02:18:21   game, my friend.

02:18:22   I do. I do. I do. Thank you so much for having me. It was great.

02:18:25   this, I told you it would be a short episode. You actually did say that. I did say that. I really

02:18:31   did. And I told that to Molt the other day, too, and we went an hour and 55 minutes. Once I get

02:18:35   started talking, and it's an interesting conversation. How did we do? One thing back story,

02:18:40   folks, is that Dave, I only came to Dave a couple hours before the show. I was running short on

02:18:45   time. I needed another episode in October. I had so much to talk about. I wanted to talk about the

02:18:49   AirPods. And we were chatting about the baseball, and I was like, "Why don't you just do my show?"

02:18:54   And you were like, "I could do that." And it was, "This is great." Dave got excited,

02:18:59   sent me a whole list of ideas we could talk about. I got to tell you, I didn't even look

02:19:05   --

02:19:06   Which we got to one.

02:19:07   I didn't look at it. I was going to say, "How did we do?" I was, "I'm going to guess we

02:19:09   didn't get to any of them, but we got probably AirPods, right?"

02:19:12   Yeah, no, we did Apple TV+, World Series. We did good. We did good.

02:19:17   What's going to happen is after we're done, I'm going to read that and I'm going to look

02:19:20   at it and it's probably chock full of good ideas and then I'm going to end up using those

02:19:24   ideas on the next few episodes of the show and you're going to be like son of a bitch,

02:19:28   you stole my idea. No, God bless you, go with it. I'm fine with that and I really, I had

02:19:34   such a good time. This was great. Thank you for having me. Hey, good luck tonight. I swear

02:19:39   to you I'm not trying to jinx anything but go Nats. Alright. Alright. Go Nats. Let me

02:19:44   thank our sponsors. Hey, before you say bye, let me thank our sponsors. Come on, we got

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02:20:11   our large, go to linode.com. Dave, everybody can find you at theloop.com on your writing

02:20:18   and on Twitter @DaveMark.

02:20:20   Dave Mark. That works.

02:20:23   All right. Good luck.