00:01:44 ◼ ► But they kind of are repetitive, right? I mean, I think to get all meta, I mean, I do get the sense,
00:01:52 ◼ ► I don't track it that closely because we're not really in that business, but that these
00:01:55 ◼ ► events are drawing less attention from just ordinary sort of people who would pay attention
00:02:11 ◼ ► And that's sort of the meta, the annual meta response to them is, "Hmm, just another iPhone."
00:02:36 ◼ ► I did an episode before with all of the various hardware stuff that Apple released the week
00:02:41 ◼ ► which was interesting in that they had these new things ready to go and didn't want to put them in
00:02:48 ◼ ► the show. They wanted the show to focus entirely on quote unquote services. It's not a single
00:02:54 ◼ ► reference to hardware that I recall. I'm sure someone will then fact check me and say there
00:02:58 ◼ ► is one, but I mean, I don't remember any reference to any piece of hardware. Yeah, I don't think so.
00:03:02 ◼ ► I mean, other than saying that you can see these things on your phone and your iPad and your Apple
00:03:22 ◼ ► Well, actually, let's go through these things in the order that Apple went through them.
00:03:42 ◼ ► spent the most time on the TV plus their new their new original content stuff. And that's
00:03:47 ◼ ► where they had a little bit of star power. So you really can't do that first. You can't
00:04:53 ◼ ► And then the event came and it was two hours long and I thought boy, I think I have more questions
00:05:00 ◼ ► Coming out of the event and those of us who study this and those of us who know that Apple's getting into this original
00:05:11 ◼ ► Are they gonna charge anything? There was some stories from some media reporters that maybe their original content
00:05:49 ◼ ► as somebody who's a very close Apple follower is to come out of an Apple event with more questions as
00:05:56 ◼ ► usually I come out with very few questions or the questions that I have are esoteric. You know,
00:06:02 ◼ ► it is something like, well, wait, wait a minute. You're saying that the 12 inch iPad pro has
00:06:14 ◼ ► not what are you doing? Why did you do this? Those are the two main questions, I think.
00:06:21 ◼ ► Well, and I thought maybe the best of your questions too was why would someone pay anything
00:06:26 ◼ ► for it? You know, like, why would I buy it is sort of what Apple specializes in at these events. Like,
00:06:32 ◼ ► here's why you want this. It they're very good at it. And they're at their best, when it starts with
00:06:40 ◼ ► the product and that the, you know, they're not selling you on the product. They're letting the
00:06:51 ◼ ► Scott Horner Yeah, I don't know what the point of having this event so far in advance of having this
00:06:58 ◼ ► stuff to sell or even show is. I saw you were floating some theories. I just don't get it.
00:07:04 ◼ ► I buy the argument that the fact that you and me and everyone else who's closely watching this
00:07:14 ◼ ► go into comes time to sell it. Apple is really good at selling things. They'll have a lot of
00:07:18 ◼ ► ways to sell it. They'll be selling it on those billion plus phones. I don't really matter what
00:07:22 ◼ ► John and Peter said in April. But why do an event in March if you don't have the thing ready and
00:07:29 ◼ ► can't answer basic questions? I don't I don't get the point of that at all. Yeah. And so before we
00:07:34 ◼ ► Before we get into the specifics, two of my theories. One is that other media companies,
00:07:48 ◼ ► the partnership of magazines and newspapers and online publications like TechCrunch and
00:07:54 ◼ ► Vox Media to get them into the Apple News Plus bundle. And they require the participation
00:08:14 ◼ ► making these TV shows and movies for original content are from an industry that is a lot more
00:08:21 ◼ ► leaky yeah that's how I do my job right it's just and you know and there have been some good stories
00:08:29 ◼ ► some of them by you about like the culture clash between Hollywood and Apple where it's just you
00:08:35 ◼ ► know like like things that Hollywood is used to keeping secret are you know what happens at the
00:08:42 ◼ ► very end of the Avengers movie right that's right that's a secret that they are culturally equipped
00:08:48 ◼ ► to protect so if this was about what the new iPhone was going to be and was going to have
00:08:53 ◼ ► a radical departure and was it going to have 28 different whatever the some amazing spec
00:09:26 ◼ ► And then every week or so or every couple of weeks, I get an email from someone in Apple
00:10:09 ◼ ► Which in, by which I mean, there is a narrative about Apple as a stock that is that they've
00:10:24 ◼ ► terms of unit sales within the last two years or so. They grew revenue from iPhone last
00:10:31 ◼ ► year with the iPhone X because the price went much higher and an awful lot of people went
00:10:37 ◼ ► along for it and bought it. Now with the fuller lineup of iPhone X class phones with the super
00:10:46 ◼ ► big X Max, whatever they call it, the regular iPhone XS and the XR, the average selling
00:10:54 ◼ ► price is probably still higher. But even there, it's leveled off very famously without going
00:11:06 ◼ ► announce that they missed earnings, and there's crazy stuff going on in China that maybe is
00:11:21 ◼ ► They have been beating the drum of quote-unquote services, you know with a caravanses services services with a capital a Steve Ballmer. Yeah
00:11:36 ◼ ► And again the the the counter to that would be if you want to impress Wall Street you would say
00:11:41 ◼ ► Here's the things we're gonna sell and here's how much we're gonna sell them for and thus Wall Street if you're looking for new revenue
00:11:50 ◼ ► Selling subscriptions to the Oprah show or whatever it is that they're gonna sell but they didn't do that either. So again, we're still confused
00:11:57 ◼ ► And you know and and there I can't help but think that Hollywood is still a little confused too because you know
00:12:07 ◼ ► They know that yeah, you know as far as I know nobody knows what's going on on the new episode
00:12:13 ◼ ► Which is gonna find out tonight John going to the premiere. Are you really not to name-drop? Yeah. Are you lucky?
00:12:22 ◼ ► Look, Hollywood is very confused. I was calling some of Apple's partners the last few days
00:12:27 ◼ ► I said, what'd you think of that? And they said ah, I don't know. I wanted to said I think it's good for me
00:12:33 ◼ ► Meaning that person's gonna see he thinks he will sell a lot of subscriptions to his thing
00:12:42 ◼ ► Well, here's the here's the thing where I'm going with Game of Thrones the thing that was not secret about Game of Thrones was
00:12:58 ◼ ► And then you know this goes back to and it's gonna be it's gonna be this many episodes. All right, and here's how you get it
00:13:09 ◼ ► There's you know, these tentpole dates for here's you know, here's when the new Star Wars Episode 9 is coming out and here's
00:13:16 ◼ ► They may not pre-announce the date that the teaser is going to drop but we can pretty well guess
00:13:21 ◼ ► And I think the creative people who are involved know JJ Abrams probably has a pretty good idea when the teaser is going to drop
00:13:28 ◼ ► Yes, here's a steady drumbeat of stuff and there's another version of this that everyone is referencing with with this the TV networks
00:13:37 ◼ ► Do called an upfront where they gather everyone in New York in the spring and say here's what we're gonna show you next fall
00:13:48 ◼ ► They might actually show them in a full episode of the TV show if they feel really confident about it
00:13:56 ◼ ► And this seemed like a partial version of that and with again missing the part where they actually show you the shows which is also confusing
00:14:41 ◼ ► They also have newer models made out of anodized aluminum, very fancy, also very lightweight.
00:14:47 ◼ ► They make their carry-on in two sizes, the bigger carry-on, the smaller carry-on, very,
00:15:03 ◼ ► What I mean by ejectable, it's very simple because I know there's a lot of flight restrictions
00:15:06 ◼ ► now on taking lithium-ion batteries and maybe they're going to, you know, you're late for
00:15:09 ◼ ► a flight, maybe you got a last minute ticket, they're going to say we've got to gate check
00:15:13 ◼ ► your thing and they can't put the thing underneath. The battery pops right out. You don't have to open
00:15:17 ◼ ► the suitcase. You don't have to dig through your clothes to get it out. It just pops. You just lift
00:15:21 ◼ ► it up, click it, pops right out, take it with you on the plane. But having a big, big battery and two
00:15:27 ◼ ► USB ports right on your suitcase is like the greatest thing in the world because no matter
00:15:32 ◼ ► where you sit down in the airport terminal, you've got to charge it right there. And my phone died
00:15:36 ◼ ► Every single time I go to any airport, anywhere in the world, my phone is immediately somehow
00:15:41 ◼ ► nose and just drops to like 30%. Love it. They have fantastic wheels. My family and I, like I
00:15:47 ◼ ► said, we're just on a spring break trip, some away suitcases, some non awake suitcases that
00:15:51 ◼ ► admittedly are a bit older. Everybody was fighting over dragging the away ones because the other ones
00:15:56 ◼ ► don't roll very well. Mine is years old, still looks brand new. It is absolutely a fantastic
00:16:03 ◼ ► suitcase. I love they have a bunch of colors to pick from. They have a great interior design
00:16:08 ◼ ► with what they call a compression system. It's basically it's a nice place where you can put
00:16:13 ◼ ► folded up shirts. Put something on top that cinches it nice and flat. And then when you
00:16:18 ◼ ► take them out of the suitcase, the shirts don't look all wrinkled. It's great. They've got a
00:16:23 ◼ ► special little bag for putting your dirty laundry in, keeping it in there, keeping away from your
00:16:28 ◼ ► clean clothes as you travel. Anyway, I love my away suitcases. I recommend them thoroughly.
00:16:37 ◼ ► have a special deal for you. 20 bucks off a suitcase by visiting away, travel.com away,
00:16:51 ◼ ► the talk show and you get 20 bucks off a suitcase. Use that code during checkout and you'll save
00:17:16 ◼ ► Apple News Plus, 10 bucks. Here's the one. The only price in the whole show. Which again,
00:17:23 ◼ ► And I, you know, and, and anybody who follows Apple closely, it's like I've said, basically
00:17:33 ◼ ► during fireball. And for the, I started this site and the podcast a couple of years later,
00:17:39 ◼ ► but I started it in 2002 and writing about Apple starting around 2002 was really catching
00:18:15 ◼ ► have been. Maybe I've made mistakes and I try to correct them as opposed to denying them or whatever.
00:18:20 ◼ ► But basically my defense is, boy, if you've written about Apple from 2002 going forward
00:18:25 ◼ ► and most of what you've written isn't very positive, then you got it wrong because they
00:18:30 ◼ ► had a great run. They've had a great run. It might still be going, but with great products,
00:18:35 ◼ ► you know, if, if you're treating them half your stories are bad and half are good. You're, you're,
00:18:41 ◼ ► you're not doing justice to the actual story. It'd be like covering the Chicago bulls during
00:18:48 ◼ ► Yeah. Apple makes good stuff, has consistently made good stuff for a long stretch. Very good
00:18:54 ◼ ► stuff. But, you know, one of the other things is that in addition to making good stuff,
00:18:58 ◼ ► they present it well. I think their events are tighter than most companies, far tighter than
00:19:05 ◼ ► most companies' events. I think they stick to things you really want to know. I think they're
00:19:10 ◼ ► truthful. But I have to say, I've found this event very, again, I wasn't there. So I had
00:19:21 ◼ ► So it was satisfying, at least with Apple News, to have here's a thing that is shipping,
00:19:34 ◼ ► Yeah, it's like so you want to walk through what this how we got here. Yeah, I want to walk through how we got here
00:19:44 ◼ ► 2009 ish we know everyone knows the iPad is coming. They're not sure that it's called the iPad or whatever. It's gonna be
00:19:49 ◼ ► And the magazine publishers say this thing is gonna be a big deal in part because Steve Jobs has been telling him
00:20:03 ◼ ► Publishers the music labels got screwed where Steve Jobs said hey, you guys are in bad shape. I'm tell you what to do for you
00:20:11 ◼ ► Into dollar songs and that's gonna be great for me and much less good for you. It's all gonna work out
00:20:16 ◼ ► We the magazine guys say we want control of whatever this thing is going to be. We're doing a joint venture
00:20:24 ◼ ► So Hearst Meredith timing all at the time the big publishers Conde Nast and News Corp get together
00:20:30 ◼ ► And create what we were at the time calling like a Hulu for news because it was a joint venture
00:20:40 ◼ ► I think was the initial price you can read all the magazines you want through this service and they'll own the service and they can
00:20:58 ◼ ► And it eventually was called texture and that is the thing that Apple bought a year ago
00:21:06 ◼ ► The magazine publishers still owned it when they when Apple bought it, so they got a check from Apple already the magazine publishers
00:21:18 ◼ ► The Apple folks will tell you they totally redid the product, but it's essentially the same thing
00:21:24 ◼ ► And then what Apple has been trying to do for the last year is say our magazines are great
00:21:29 ◼ ► But we need more stuff in here. We need news so they've been courting the the newspapers with mixed success
00:21:40 ◼ ► They have some digital publishers including my friends over at box comm are contributing some stuff
00:22:01 ◼ ► I know you know this but I think it's worth remembering is that when Apple first went to the music companies in
00:22:26 ◼ ► three, four, five percent, however you want to measure it, of the US market and you, you know,
00:22:40 ◼ ► permanent niche product that they could, well, we can dip our toes in this and do this thing
00:22:43 ◼ ► with Apple where they're selling songs for 99 cents because it's just Apple. And that's...
00:22:48 ◼ ► And also, by the way, it's also post Napster or file sharing is a huge deal, but in retrospect,
00:22:55 ◼ ► the music guys haven't quite realized this. Their industry is about to go into like a decade plus
00:23:00 ◼ ► slide because of piracy. But the reason they could even get there was the jobs could even break open
00:23:18 ◼ ► digital music player of the decade, and therefore make the iTunes Music Store the digital music
00:23:26 ◼ ► store for everybody. Right. And, you know, I think that's the caution that these other,
00:23:33 ◼ ► whether it be books or whether it's the news industry or Hollywood or everybody's had since
00:23:38 ◼ ► is, hey, they did it to the music guys. And I question what I question about that, though,
00:23:44 ◼ ► analysis is that without Apple, I'm not sure the music people were going to have anything.
00:25:22 ◼ ► you know that there's a really good New Yorker article about dinosaurs that came out last week,
00:25:29 ◼ ► I get to why the major newspapers, and again, I'd love to hear your take on why the journal
00:25:41 ◼ ► is in, but why the Post and New York Times aren't. Now I subscribe to the Wall Street Journal,
00:25:50 ◼ ► I subscribe to the New York Times, all digital editions, and I do subscribe to the Washington
00:26:00 ◼ ► Now, and the journal famously, very famously, all along, sort of as stodgy as you might think
00:26:09 ◼ ► the journal would be as an institution, really kind of pounced on the World Wide Web, you know,
00:26:16 ◼ ► back when we used to call it the World Wide Web. And also very, I'm not going to say all along,
00:26:22 ◼ ► I don't know about the early years, but as long as I can remember, they've had a paywall for
00:26:27 ◼ ► everything and you want our stuff you pay, you are more importantly, your employer pays, right. And
00:26:31 ◼ ► they don't even do like a hey, you get five a month and then you can, you know, delete the
00:26:37 ◼ ► cookie and maybe get five more go into private mode and then a cookie doesn't show up and you
00:26:41 ◼ ► can do this stuff and we, you know, they don't have that, you know, it is, you're going to pay
00:26:46 ◼ ► us and again, why it may have worked so well for them as opposed to others is exactly what you said
00:26:51 ◼ ► that a lot of if not most of the subscribers to the Wall Street Journal can get their employer to
00:26:56 ◼ ► pay for it. I certainly considered as myself, I mean, it's a one person company, but I consider
00:27:01 ◼ ► it a well justified business expense because I find so much good stuff and linked to so much good
00:27:06 ◼ ► stuff in the Wall Street Journal. But that's $39 a month. And that just all goes right to
00:27:12 ◼ ► the journal. The Times is 20 bucks a month for a digital subscription. And funny enough, I just got
00:27:17 ◼ ► a I just got an email from Schultzberger yesterday, telling me that that my subscription will be going
00:27:25 ◼ ► up to $25 a month sometime between now and middle of May, which is a little weird that he doesn't
00:27:31 ◼ ► no way when you're gonna take and you know the times has a leaky or paywall they do the
00:27:39 ◼ ► thing where you get free some number of free articles a month and they keep a cookie and
00:27:53 ◼ ► going to the New York Times company and the Wall Street Washington Post I subscribed through
00:27:58 ◼ ► through their app on the phone because I do love managing my subscriptions the Apple way
00:28:04 ◼ ► where I can—if I ever wanted to unsubscribe, I can just tap a button as opposed to calling
00:28:10 ◼ ► the New York Times call center in Iowa, talking to some nice lady there. But that's $10
00:28:27 ◼ ► anything in the Washington Post, so 10 bucks a month is good for me. But at 10 bucks total
00:28:40 ◼ ► publications that are in it, and this purported 50/50 split where Apple is taking 50% of the
00:28:55 ◼ ► Yeah for the news guys, it's it for the post and the time it's very clear part of it is the money
00:29:01 ◼ ► The Times I think has three million digital only subscribers. I think maybe four million all in they're saying look, you know
00:29:08 ◼ ► Even if we have to give Apple a cut of that because some people are subscribing through the you know iTunes, etc
00:29:17 ◼ ► We certainly don't want to give away 50% and there's some more nuanced arguments about we don't want to be in someone else's bundle frankly
00:29:48 ◼ ► There's also an issue of actually having control over who has access to the subscriber,
00:29:53 ◼ ► all those things that are all important to the Post and The Times that are very diligently
00:30:00 ◼ ► The Journal could say all those same things, and the fact that they're not, you can deduce
00:31:07 ◼ ► And again, they're not going to come out and say, "We've made this thing to sort of frustrate
00:31:20 ◼ ► And then their hope is we're going to bring a lot of general interest stories that maybe
00:31:25 ◼ ► most people don't associate with the journal or people who aren't subscribing the journal
00:31:31 ◼ ► Weirdly they're also hiring maybe 50 journalists that are going to mostly create stuff just
00:31:39 ◼ ► And so we're really going to go deep on this and we're going to sort of make the journal,
00:31:49 ◼ ► That doesn't make any sense to me at all that there. Well, one thing you don't get and it affects
00:31:55 ◼ ► me personally, and what I do very much is that unless I'm completely missing something.
00:32:01 ◼ ► If you Peter subscribe to the journal only through Apple news plus you don't have a direct
00:32:08 ◼ ► subscription and I linked to a Wall Street Journal story on during fireball. When you click through,
00:32:13 ◼ ► you only get the preview and there's no way for you to log in using credentials from your Apple
00:32:17 ◼ ► news plus subscription. You don't have, you know, there is that you need a real quote unquote,
00:32:28 ◼ ► is feature versus bug. Maybe they're just, they haven't figured out how to get how to figure that
00:32:33 ◼ ► part out. I assume that's actually fairly complicated. In part, just because the number
00:32:37 ◼ ► of times that when I do go to a publication that I am subscribing to, they don't recognize me.
00:32:44 ◼ ► And that doesn't sort of matter what device I'm on whether it's an Apple device or it's the web or my phone
00:32:48 ◼ ► Apparently that stuff is just hard to do. Are you talking about the journal specifically? No, I'm talking about anything. Well the
00:32:55 ◼ ► Yorker the journal specifically and I've talked to Joanna Stern about this and she's admitted the same thing that the journals
00:33:09 ◼ ► Well, I don't know the the folks who work the New Yorkers say the same thing. Oh, there's his guys
00:33:22 ◼ ► And I know that there's some of the funny things is the fact that when you're on your phone a whole bunch of apps
00:33:28 ◼ ► Like your Twitter app and other apps have built in many browsers based on Safari and you know
00:33:34 ◼ ► Whether or not they can share cookies or whatever, but I'm talking about when you're I'm just in real Safari
00:35:35 ◼ ► the bundle and whole bunch of channels, one monthly fee and you get everybody if everybody
00:35:41 ◼ ► quote unquote, everybody has cable, which was effectively true at one point, there's enough
00:35:47 ◼ ► money to go around where you know, it is real money. Right. And now that model is under great
00:35:51 ◼ ► pressure, which is actually Apple's plan slash hope is that the bundle is going to break up and
00:35:55 ◼ ► they'll benefit from that. My argument about this, though, with the magazines, or one of my arguments
00:36:00 ◼ ► with it is—and I like magazines, I do—but I will admit that even when I fly, which might
00:36:12 ◼ ► to read a lot of magazines. I still subscribe to The Physical New Yorker. I get a publication
00:36:24 ◼ ► does a really good job of embracing what print is still great at. And it's sort of like
00:36:28 ◼ ► a Reader's Digest for what's happened in the last week, whether it was in another magazine or whether
00:36:35 ◼ ► it was online. But other than that, I just, you know, and I can't say, you know, famously, I mean,
00:36:47 ◼ ► There's a terrible guilt where all I've looked at this week was the back page cartoon contest.
00:37:01 ◼ ► But my critique there is the idea of a magazine where an editor goes and assembles a bunch
00:37:15 ◼ ► And you can argue that maybe I'm in a filter bubble, etc., but I get lots of people are
00:37:27 ◼ ► And so the idea of this curated set of articles that one person picked for me seems very anachronistic.
00:37:42 ◼ ► by, again, human beings in Cupertino, to Apple's credit, saying, "We think these are things
00:37:53 ◼ ► used to be a lot—when in the print world was a lot more distinct. And, you know, the type of writing
00:38:02 ◼ ► and the type of article you would read on page one of the New York Times is very different than
00:38:06 ◼ ► the type of stuff you would read in The New Yorker or even Time or Newsweek or something.
00:38:11 ◼ ► But now we're mostly talking about articles. The unit is really—and, you know, it's just a post
00:38:19 ◼ ► web thing. And in the early days of the web, I mean, in the years before I started during
00:38:23 ◼ ► Fireball, before web blogs became a—here's how you do a web blog. You just write posts,
00:38:41 ◼ ► I was much younger then, I was coming from, you know, running the student newspaper at Drexel,
00:38:47 ◼ ► but thinking about issues and that there'd be an issue. And what do you do? Do you have an issue
00:38:50 ◼ ► every couple days? Do you do an issue once a week? Do you have a schedule? And no, you just have
00:38:54 ◼ ► articles. That's the nature. And that's the atomic unit of Apple News is still, even if you have the
00:39:00 ◼ ► Apple News+, it's still the article. And the difference between an article that happens to
00:39:05 ◼ ► come from the New York Times or the Washington Post and an article that comes from a magazine,
00:39:21 ◼ ► Yeah, no, and that's all as it should be. If you're the consumer, all you care about is,
00:39:24 ◼ ► do I like this? Is it good? Is it trustworthy? Is it come from a source that I trust and value?
00:39:30 ◼ ► That's kind of it. And, you know, look, I mean, a lot of those New York Times 3 million subscriptions
00:39:47 ◼ ► It might be very difficult to get lots of people to subscribe to discrete magazine subscriptions or newspaper subscriptions going forward. Yeah
00:40:00 ◼ ► Federico Viticci at Mac stories went through and did the diligent work of looking at every single
00:40:06 ◼ ► magazine that was in Apple News as of like a day or two after the thing. And it was about a 50/50
00:40:11 ◼ ► split between the magazines that were using the new Apple News format in terms of the technical,
00:40:18 ◼ ► you know, how are we sending this article, which is a little bit more like HTML and a thing that
00:40:22 ◼ ► more easily reflows to anything from a big screen to a tiny little phone screen, and about half are
00:40:42 ◼ ► of time and energy trying to make a new thing for digital, but most of them said, we're
00:40:46 ◼ ► just going to take the thing we've already made and take a photograph of it essentially
00:40:51 ◼ ► Yeah. But pages, it just doesn't work for me, really. I mean, it always, I mean, I still
00:41:07 ◼ ► Yeah, but you're getting so much of it. It's only $10 and you can subscribe on your phone.
00:41:16 ◼ ► is a reasonable goal for them? They've sold 50 million Apple Music subscriptions in the
00:42:08 ◼ ► the emphasis on human curation. And we want to show you what's good and truthful and important,
00:42:23 ◼ ► anti clickbait, and also humans are picking this stuff. It's not we're not leaving this up to an
00:42:28 ◼ ► algorithm. And we care about journalism, you know, full full stop, they made a point of saying that
00:42:38 ◼ ► There was an article a couple of months ago where somebody had like a feature of you know,
00:42:43 ◼ ► how Apple News works and who they've hired and how they've hired all these professionals who have,
00:42:47 ◼ ► you know, serious careers in real journalism. And then there was a quote from somebody who was like,
00:42:57 ◼ ► Because he works at Apple. And it's like, that's just like for anybody from the media world,
00:43:05 ◼ ► that is just, it's insane. And there's one woman whose name is associated with Lauren Kern.
00:43:15 ◼ ► You'd see her walking around you can talk to her that and that is sort of how Apple works where there is
00:43:25 ◼ ► But there is a sort of line that you cross in your career at Apple where you're allowed to be named publicly
00:43:43 ◼ ► One important name for you for your readers slash listeners to pay attention to is the guy Peter Stern
00:43:53 ◼ ► Yeah for Apple with the media and I you know, I can't imagine another scenario where Peter Stern would get stage time
00:44:05 ◼ ► Forget his last name, but he had the exquisite white jumpsuit. Yeah, that was a jumpsuit
00:44:20 ◼ ► Presenters at Apple were had a had their shirts tucked in or untucked and I would keep a tally
00:44:26 ◼ ► Yeah as a as a completely meta thing just to goof on Twitter during the event and I stopped doing it
00:44:41 ◼ ► matter because everybody who was coming on stage was a man and so it was fine. But then
00:44:49 ◼ ► came on stage and her shirt wasn't tucked in or her blouse, but it really wasn't a shirt
00:44:54 ◼ ► and she looked fantastic. And I was like, you know what this whole tucked on tuck thing
00:45:03 ◼ ► But I and by the way and and it was I noticed also that was a diverse group of Apple presenters that was different as well
00:45:12 ◼ ► I don't think that was pointed necessarily. I just think that was that but I do think that wasn't an accident
00:45:17 ◼ ► But when Wyatt came out in the jumpsuit, I thought boy if I were still doing the tucked untucked
00:45:32 ◼ ► I think but I would give it an asterisk and the on the side of absolutely winning because it was it was a very cool look
00:45:39 ◼ ► Wyatt Mitchell is his name. I wanted to make sure I could go quiet Mitchell and he did a great job
00:45:48 ◼ ► He was a designer who worked on Apple news and showed off the cool way that the Apple news formatted once
00:46:15 ◼ ► Shows you sort of like how odd this event was or it's the one thing we can actually look at and evaluate
00:46:33 ◼ ► I've been skeptical all along about Apple getting into the credit card business just because it just seems so
00:46:47 ◼ ► But there's money to be made and we like making yeah, I will confess that I still don't really understand that
00:47:55 ◼ ► their virtual debit card that you can use with Apple Pay. And it's just like a bank account,
00:48:01 ◼ ► except that it has no interest, but it's, you know, just cash. And then Apple Card now can be
00:48:16 ◼ ► this is a thing you don't need a card for, you just carry it in your phone. So it's, you know,
00:48:20 ◼ ► it's effective, you know, if I was buying my coffee with Apple Pay, and if I'm paying with
00:49:17 ◼ ► get these other things when you can move that bundle up or down. Yeah. And you know, I know
00:49:21 ◼ ► that every other, not every, but every department store you go to has their own credit card and every
00:49:28 ◼ ► airline has their own credit card or series of credit cards. And you know, you can get your
00:49:33 ◼ ► American Airlines credit card, you can get a Disney credit card, you can, I get it that all
00:49:39 ◼ ► of these other companies in, you name the industry, right, you can get gas station credit cards, you
00:49:44 ◼ ► know, you know, and there's a reason I'm sure it's profitable, you know, the banks are making money
00:49:53 ◼ ► I get it. But it also just is all to me a little unseemly. You know, my crack when they first in
00:50:01 ◼ ► this first leaked a few weeks ago was what's next? Are they going to start doing payday loans at the
00:50:05 ◼ ► Apple Store? Yeah, I mean, again, they they base, they wrap this up in virtue, right? You know,
00:50:45 ◼ ► first went from plastic to metal. The original metal G4 Mac, not Mac books, power books were
00:51:03 ◼ ► well as aluminum. So like an 18 month old well-used titanium G4 had like, it like eroded
00:52:06 ◼ ► you know, that's the only time anybody normal ever looks at it. So let's stipulate the world is not
00:52:11 ◼ ► going to be a set of flame by the Apple thing or maybe there's a more interesting application.
00:52:15 ◼ ► Maybe there's more interesting stuff to come from Goldman and Apple. Well, I just don't know how
00:52:20 ◼ ► big a dent in the universe it makes to have a better credit card with low, no fees and nice
00:52:25 ◼ ► rules and stuff like that. I will say this, the 3% cashback on Apple purchases is probably worth it
00:52:49 ◼ ► Yeah. So it's probably worth it just for that. But I don't want to spend more of your time
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00:55:52 ◼ ► I think this one makes a lot of sense though to me just because Apple's really strong in
00:56:02 ◼ ► Yeah, as a consumer, I looked at it and said, "I don't know that I'm going to play those
00:56:08 ◼ ► games, but I could definitely see subscribing to it and giving it to my kids and saying,
00:56:22 ◼ ► And I'm also—Apple's going to pick—Apple's going to have some sort of curatorial control
00:56:33 ◼ ► Right, I'd be very interested in buying and it's you know, they kept this pretty well under wraps
00:56:40 ◼ ► I had a guess I made a guess the day before the event that maybe they would add a game subscription
00:56:46 ◼ ► Yeah, I think Bloomberg had it a few days a few days in advance. But yeah, it was it was it was quite quiet
00:56:54 ◼ ► Part of what seems impressive is that these games are exclusive or at least exclusive on mobile to the platform
00:57:05 ◼ ► I think what they mean by mobile is not Android, and therefore maybe these games might be on
00:57:12 ◼ ► your PlayStation or your PC or something like that, but the only way to play them on a phone
00:57:29 ◼ ► Well, is that it's it's it's a specific niche of gaming and I think they emphasized the indie gaming over and over
00:57:34 ◼ ► But I mean one of the reasons they didn't leak is that they weren't doing deals with epic or with blizzard or EA
00:57:40 ◼ ► Right, right and those triple-a games don't really make sense on a phone in in right in my opinion and in my son's opinion as well
00:57:49 ◼ ► Plays games on a PlayStation. He does play games on a phone, but he plays different games on a phone because they just make sense
00:58:00 ◼ ► They're going to offer at different price points and different bundle elements. This makes tons of sense
00:58:04 ◼ ► Yeah, well and you said your kids play fortnight. I mean, I think the thing that they're pushing back on on this is the
00:58:16 ◼ ► And the idea that the people making the most money and let's face it Apple is making 30% of that revenue from those games
00:58:25 ◼ ► games when I go through the app store. I feel like even Apple itself is pushing back against
00:58:48 ◼ ► an Apple arcade subscription. We don't know what that is. I can't help but think though
00:59:17 ◼ ► you're in, you've got everything, and there you go. And I think that's a super compelling part of it.
00:59:24 ◼ ► I think they also had, they did have, they didn't have the big publishers like EA and Epic and,
00:59:29 ◼ ► and those, but they had indie game creator, I guess, a hint of what was to come with the,
00:59:34 ◼ ► the entertainment, the TV and movie stuff. They had some big names from the gaming world,
00:59:39 ◼ ► like Will Wright, the guy who invented SimCity and the Sims. You know, super clever guy with a great
00:59:46 ◼ ► history and other people, you know, I'm not really a gaming expert either. But you know,
00:59:50 ◼ ► games I've heard of seems like a good deal I get at a technical level, I get why this is fall,
00:59:59 ◼ ► because it sure sounds like the hey, these things will run on Apple TV, and your phone and your Mac
01:00:07 ◼ ► has something to do with this whole marzipan thing that will make it easier for developers to cross,
01:00:12 ◼ ► you know, make one, write one game, and it'll run on all of these Apple devices, which would mean
01:00:18 ◼ ► that there's going to be, I'm guessing, a huge chunk of WWDC this June, which will be divided
01:00:24 ◼ ► devoted to the technical aspects of here's how this is going to work. So I get and therefore,
01:00:30 ◼ ► whatever comes whatever is announced in June at WWDC will ship in the fall with a new version of
01:00:36 ◼ ► iOS and a new version of the tv OS and a new version of the Mac OS. And that's what we're
01:00:40 ◼ ► waiting for. But in the meantime, you know, what? We wait. Yeah, coming coming later. Yeah,
01:00:50 ◼ ► we should we should. Isn't the Apple TV storefront isn't that up and running? Or is that coming May?
01:01:01 ◼ ► the channels, right? Right. Yeah. Well, that's next. So why don't we just go right to it?
01:01:05 ◼ ► because the gaming thing is, you know, so the, the Apple TV channels, and this is where I'm
01:01:11 ◼ ► starting to get more and more confused, right? I get like, so long as this Apple arcade is 10,
01:01:16 ◼ ► maybe 15 a month, I get I get it. Okay, let's just assume that's in there. Now we get to Apple TV
01:01:23 ◼ ► channels. This is announced for quote, May, which is pretty soon, you know, that's next month.
01:01:31 ◼ ► This is the famed skinny bundle, I think is the term that's been bandied about for years.
01:01:36 ◼ ► Not really. No. Okay. Now what's the difference? This is this is Amazon channels. This is go.
01:01:44 ◼ ► This is what you can't do is pick a bunch of cable channels that you'd like to get better currently
01:01:51 ◼ ► in some other bundles. So you can't go and get ESPN but not get Disney or whatever else. What you can
01:01:57 ◼ ► can do or buy things that you've already been able to buy, HBO, show time, stars, CBS has
01:02:12 ◼ ► They're going to throw in some other stuff that you wouldn't normally pay for and that's
01:02:18 ◼ ► They put up a bunch of logos and I think probably should be slapped for being deliberately confusing
01:02:33 ◼ ► Yeah. And there's no way you wouldn't understand any of this unless you literally sort of had my
01:02:38 ◼ ► job or a handful of other jobs and you were tasked with figuring this stuff out. But for
01:02:43 ◼ ► the regular consumer, really, there's no difference. Today, you can buy HBO through Apple TV. And in
01:03:56 ◼ ► reuse the term Apple TV in so many ways, like it's the device and it's the guide, it's the app.
01:04:03 ◼ ► When they made the app into a thing that surfaces individual shows or movies in the same way that
01:04:13 ◼ ► Apple news surfaces articles as opposed to publications, right? You go to Apple news and
01:04:19 ◼ ► the top five articles are very often from five different publications. You go to the TV app,
01:04:25 ◼ ► they want to do the same thing and say, here's five things we think you might want to watch.
01:04:29 ◼ ► And it might vary from a basketball game on the ESPN app that you already have installed and
01:04:36 ◼ ► authorized somehow to Hulu show to maybe shows a show that's only on iTunes or something.
01:05:16 ◼ ► I don't use it that much anymore because I got a Roku TV and just by default I'm using that really crummy interface
01:05:25 ◼ ► And that is TV for most people or lots of people and so you literally can't just use it as your TV guide because you
01:05:32 ◼ ► Won't know what's on Netflix. I don't know what point will be in the edited version of the show
01:05:36 ◼ ► But on my recording we're one minute and seven seconds in before we mentioned the word Netflix, which I was
01:05:53 ◼ ► Maybe to a lesser degree YouTube as well and I'm thinking about my 15 year old son and how much time he spends watching you
01:06:15 ◼ ► And also why should I have to think about whether this thing is on Netflix or YouTube or Hulu?
01:06:26 ◼ ► Reluctantly trying to figure out digital there were two different competing music services one had like three of the labels one had to of course
01:06:32 ◼ ► That was a non-starter right? Who's gonna figure out if Madonna's on this label or not?
01:06:42 ◼ ► But for you for the same reasons you can you know why it's very important for Netflix, right?
01:06:46 ◼ ► And there was a someone has to go to Netflix and every time something like that happens people just get confused and revolt
01:06:56 ◼ ► HD DVDs and it was like there were some movies that would come out on both and then there were some front and it all
01:07:03 ◼ ► But depended on the studio there the studio back blu-ray the studio black date back to HD HD
01:07:10 ◼ ► What you go into back then? I mean again, this makes me sound old already, but back then you'd go into a store to buy a
01:07:27 ◼ ► They don't know what the hell an HD DVD is versus a blu-ray. They just know if it's you know, right gonna play
01:07:35 ◼ ► I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon in part because Netflix and YouTube are so powerful there and they have no reason yeah
01:07:42 ◼ ► To work with Apple, right? Well and YouTube is often its own universe because that what makes YouTube YouTube is not
01:07:50 ◼ ► Professionally produced what I shouldn't say professionally because there's some terrific terrific
01:08:00 ◼ ► It also doesn't matter because it if you're so if you're my kids and it sounds like your kid
01:08:04 ◼ ► You don't care whether it's professional or not. You know, whether it's interesting or not
01:08:08 ◼ ► It doesn't mean you don't value Game of Thrones right, but you equally value some stupid fortnight gaming video, right?
01:08:19 ◼ ► The oldest one of the oldest adages in the world is that you know doesn't matter how rich or poor you are
01:08:25 ◼ ► You know, we all only have 24 hours a day. There's only so much time to watch shows and
01:08:34 ◼ ► There's not much room and it's very easy very easy at the end of the day to fill up all your time in Netflix
01:08:42 ◼ ► I absolutely get what Apple is trying to do and this is and this is by the way what I think the actual
01:08:46 ◼ ► Apple TV strategy is is to run this storefront is to run a TV guide and to sell HBO and Showtime subscriptions and take those
01:09:06 ◼ ► Obviously if you could take a if you could extract rent from some of the programmers there
01:09:14 ◼ ► That's why that's why I think when you hear people talking about this being a Netflix killer or or a cable TV bundle
01:09:31 ◼ ► You pay for PlayStation V you paid like 40 bucks a month and then you get like a cable TV package
01:09:37 ◼ ► I mean they do say with Apple TV channels that you'll get local you'll get local channels. I
01:09:46 ◼ ► I mean it's again like if you subscribe to whatever the live TV thing that you Hulu is you'll get them, right?
01:10:16 ◼ ► And if you ask them, they'll say, by the way, we're trying to get rid of the bundle, which
01:11:09 ◼ ► Because if we could get the Hulu product or the YouTube product or the Hulu product right
01:11:12 ◼ ► now, sometimes there's a DVR that lets you fast-forward and sometimes they say fast-forwarding
01:11:18 ◼ ► And again, I cover this stuff so I know why there's that distinction, but it's infuriating.
01:11:51 ◼ ► really do at this point. Probably a sponsor. Yeah, quip, who is a one time sponsor. Pretty
01:11:57 ◼ ► sure there's a computer in there. You know, my air pods are computerized. They're little
01:12:08 ◼ ► time when things get computerized, they get better. Right? Air pods are better than wired,
01:12:13 ◼ ► non computerized, dumb electrical, your ear pods. When TiVo came about, and who was the rival to
01:12:20 ◼ ► to TiVo. There was that there are replay replay right there. There's TiVo and there's replay
01:12:26 ◼ ► and when they first came about you'd put this box and you'd connect your cable to it and
01:12:30 ◼ ► it would record your shows. And you know this was the late 90s early like when I remember
01:12:45 ◼ ► where I saw Tiva the first time. In 2000, I went to work at a company, Barebone Software,
01:12:52 ◼ ► the makers of BB Edit. And Rich Siegel, co-founder of the company, kindly invited my wife and
01:12:59 ◼ ► I over to his house for dinner. And I believe it was, it might have been October, but the
01:13:12 ◼ ► like, we want to you want to go to the bathroom? Oh, just hold on here. Yeah. And it was like,
01:13:19 ◼ ► And no spinner. No, no, you know, and then you hit another button. And we literally went
01:13:24 ◼ ► to Best Buy. And I also remember very specifically, it was Best Buy the next day and bought the
01:13:32 ◼ ► like, it was almost a shame that we couldn't buy it. If we could have if Best Buy was a
01:13:39 ◼ ► sound like the people who went to go see the first the first motion pictures and got freaked
01:13:47 ◼ ► fication of TV with TiVo was that it put you in control. And if you wanted to fast for you,
01:13:58 ◼ ► or you could pause the show and go back. And you didn't watch anything you didn't want to watch.
01:14:02 ◼ ► And now as the industry has gone forward, as we've computerized further and gotten to streaming,
01:14:08 ◼ ► the computerfication has taken that control away from you and given you unskippable interstitions.
01:14:21 ◼ ► and Replay out of existence, right, for that very reason. Failed. And now they've succeeded in a
01:14:25 ◼ ► way because they now have this new way of insisting that you watch ads. Unless, of course, they're
01:14:30 ◼ ► Netflix and they don't show ads at all. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I think
01:18:37 ◼ ► So my best hunch is this is a thing they're going to give you if you're an Apple customer
01:18:43 ◼ ► in some way, whether maybe you own an iPhone or you have bought some other bundle and there's
01:18:53 ◼ ► We haven't talked about this yet, but a big change for Apple is they're distributing this
01:18:57 ◼ ► video now and the storefront on Roku, on Samsung, on Amazon Fire devices, which is pretty staggering.
01:19:05 ◼ ► And so maybe you'll pay something if you want to watch the Reese Witherspoon show or the
01:19:32 ◼ ► Everything else, Netflix, CBS, I'll access Hulu, on and on and on, have some smattering
01:19:50 ◼ ► All right. I, the closest I can think is that what they're, if they do charge something for it,
01:19:55 ◼ ► it's that they think they're something like HBO, but even HBO has a library. You can just go and
01:20:03 ◼ ► watch all of the old Sopranos you know, and on top of that, and HBO would say this for years,
01:20:08 ◼ ► that the majority of their viewing was people watching old movies. Yeah. And they, so they
01:20:14 ◼ ► would get you to subscribe because it's a pranos or sex in the city or game of thrones, but most
01:20:18 ◼ ► You're watching was Fast and the Furious and I were very clear about this and they spent a lot of money to license those movies
01:20:31 ◼ ► And you know, even CBS has a smattering of new shows. I like the called son of Good Wife
01:20:40 ◼ ► But the thing that most people are watching there or they've got the Twilight Zone, right?
01:20:45 ◼ ► But you can watch everything else that CBS has ever made and that's the proposition. Yeah Jordan Peele
01:20:53 ◼ ► I don't see how Apple can sell this as a standalone product now. They have called it a subscription service
01:21:01 ◼ ► But I think they still allow themselves a bunch of wiggle room if it if it's a subscription service that is then bundled in
01:21:07 ◼ ► We are subscriptions. You can still call it a subscription service, but I just don't see how they're selling this
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01:23:38 ◼ ► I guess the other thing that goes unsaid with the pricing on this whole thing and all of
01:23:42 ◼ ► the lack of pricing information is that it's crying for some sort of super bundle where
01:23:58 ◼ ► iCloud is the big quiet. I would love to see them include that because I think it's it's a
01:24:03 ◼ ► running years long running complaint of mine many years at this point that the the free amount of
01:24:12 ◼ ► storage they give people at iCloud especially when they're buying 800-900 dollar phones is almost
01:24:19 ◼ ► criminal and I think it's just heartbreaking. I mean that in all sincerity but no hyperbole
01:24:27 ◼ ► that thinking about people who lose their phone or have their phone stolen or whatever,
01:24:32 ◼ ► and don't have an iCloud backup of everything that was on it and the photos and stuff that they've
01:24:37 ◼ ► lost because they're maybe they only had one and only one Apple device, their phone. And it's a
01:24:45 ◼ ► problem we collectively in the industry have solved if you have enough space so that when you
01:24:50 ◼ ► plug it into charge and it's connected to Wi Fi, just uploads everything to the server. And as
01:24:54 ◼ ► disappointed as you might be when you have to go buy a new phone because your other one
01:24:57 ◼ ► was lost or stolen or it's a simple problem of you maybe it wasn't lost or stolen but you upgrade
01:25:03 ◼ ► and how do you get your stuff from the old phone to the new phone and you don't know that if you
01:25:08 ◼ ► don't have the iCloud stores that you could go to the Apple store and wait an hour and the genius
01:25:13 ◼ ► will help you do it with using a computer to move it between there people don't think like that
01:25:17 ◼ ► people may not know that you can do it I mean you know that there's some number of people who are
01:25:24 ◼ ► Yes. And, and also I resent iCloud. I resent being forced to pay an extra $3 a month because
01:25:31 ◼ ► I ran out of space. It just feels I did buy a super expensive phone and it, by the way,
01:25:36 ◼ ► if they just said that was part of Apple care and added it there and I didn't see it, I'd
01:25:44 ◼ ► swap stuff in and out of that. Yeah. And make it easy to manage and easy to say, you know
01:25:49 ◼ ► I never play these arcade games. So drop arcade from my bundle. But something like that, that
01:25:57 ◼ ► made it easier and made it one bill from Apple per month for recurring stuff would be compelling
01:26:05 ◼ ► just on a simplicity front. And if you saved some amount of money, you know, where there's
01:26:15 ◼ ► pay $25 a month, you know, is also very, very compelling to real people. And I kind of feel
01:26:22 ◼ ► like they haven't worked that all out. And therefore they don't want to talk about pricing
01:26:26 ◼ ► of the individual things other than news, which they have to talk about because they're
01:26:40 ◼ ► or, and also because once you, whenever you do put that price on that Reese Witherspoon
01:26:50 ◼ ► if it's just sort of bundled in, you go, great, it's exciting. And so the idea would be that
01:27:00 ◼ ► if you're using a Roku or Apple or Amazon Fire, and but they're, they've got this thing
01:27:06 ◼ ► built in and you can watch the Reese Witherspoon show, which I think I'm hoping is going to
01:27:21 ◼ ► I like Studio 60. I'll watch any version of it. I liked it when they went to Afghanistan.
01:27:33 ◼ ► show ever. I loved it. I thought it was like a parody of an Aaron Sorkin show, but I did
01:27:40 ◼ ► that's why I loved it though, because I didn't feel like it was actually sanctimonious. I felt
01:27:45 ◼ ► it was- I was incredibly sanctimonious. They were treating this SNL show as if it was the White
01:27:50 ◼ ► House. And just as important, and again, there was a plot where they had to go rescue hostages
01:27:55 ◼ ► from Afghanistan. There was a show about an SNL show. It was great. I thought it was almost,
01:28:00 ◼ ► yeah, but I thought it was like you said, a parody of an Aaron Serkin show, which is what made it
01:28:04 ◼ ► more digestible to me. I loved 30 Rock. I thought 30 Rock, which coincidentally launched the same
01:28:09 ◼ ► year as Studio 60, which was weird because I know confused me, and ordinarily for weeks,
01:28:15 ◼ ► because not only were they both shows about an SNL type show, but the numbers 30 and 60
01:28:21 ◼ ► Yes. And we also assume that the Aaron Sorkin show be the one that succeeded not the one
01:28:26 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly. So I love a show about a show. So this morning show thing and and it has
01:28:36 ◼ ► This this goes to the thing though, right like so they put out a bunch of shows and you're excited about that
01:28:44 ◼ ► I think it's just called the morning show morning show and maybe someone else is excited about the Jason Amo is blind show
01:28:50 ◼ ► You just don't know if any of it's gonna be any good the people who are make TV for a living fail most the time
01:28:58 ◼ ► Apple this is why I never understood why Apple came out with those two shows a couple years ago
01:29:05 ◼ ► So again, sort of the best case scenario, they'll have a handful of these things will be successes,
01:29:16 ◼ ► One of the ones I don't think unless I fast forwarded, they didn't really mention it. There's
01:29:22 ◼ ► one of the shows they've got who was the guy who did the the new version of Battlestar Galactica?
01:29:38 ◼ ► fantastic, which is, uh, the basic gist is what would have happened if this sixties space
01:29:44 ◼ ► race had never ended. You sure that's not an Amazon show? No, it's an Apple show. Okay.
01:29:50 ◼ ► See, there's a fusion. Uh, I guess it's still so in the works that they didn't even tease
01:29:56 ◼ ► it at the thing. Sounds like a fantastic show. But again, how many people are going to sign
01:30:05 ◼ ► Yeah, and six. And again, like the idea that, that again, maybe you like that show, maybe
01:30:11 ◼ ► it's a great show, but, but it's, it's generally those shows have to appeal to one audience
01:30:21 ◼ ► over and over. It's just very hard to imagine that I'm having enough stuff that they can
01:31:53 ◼ ► You know if any company would screw around and be that inconsistent with their names. It would be Apple. I
01:31:59 ◼ ► Don't I don't I mean this is again very insidery, but the Disney thing is gonna be called Disney Plus, right?
01:32:06 ◼ ► And who knows what the the thing formerly known as Time Warner thing is gonna be called someone referred to as HBO max today
01:32:12 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know if it's a real name or not, but someone's got to figure out a different word than plus
01:32:16 ◼ ► Yeah, well that was one mystery, but and they're not using the word. They're using the plus symbol sign
01:32:50 ◼ ► JJ Abrams on stage, you're probably only going to get to do it once. You can't bring them back
01:32:54 ◼ ► next fall to stand up on stage again and show off their TV shows. So that's a big ass to get those
01:33:01 ◼ ► guys on stage. So to get them up there on a stage and then describe a TV show, but not show it,
01:33:07 ◼ ► it just seems crazy to me. Yeah. And I'm not familiar with the up-fronts. You mentioned the
01:33:12 ◼ ► term before, but you know, it, like you said that the, my understanding is that typically they'll
01:33:23 ◼ ► Yes, the entire episodes is usually sort of a rarity, like, we're so confident, we're going to
01:33:29 ◼ ► show you the entire episode. Usually, it's a well produced sizzle reel, and you can make anything
01:33:34 ◼ ► look good. And it's kind of silly to make, to draw conclusions. But it is the expectation that you're
01:33:39 ◼ ► going to see the thing and at least to get a sense of, is it funny? Is it dramatic? Is it whatever?
01:33:44 ◼ ► none of the above. Or a trailer, right? Maybe that's the equivalent of a civil real. You could
01:33:50 ◼ ► at least get a teaser, right? Which to me is a distinct thing from a trailer. Like a teaser is
01:33:57 ◼ ► just— You might be excited. The Joker preview teaser came out today. It's great. I don't know
01:34:07 ◼ ► if you've seen it. No, I haven't seen it. It looks great. It looks great and it's so compelling.
01:34:16 ◼ ► Amazing what I remember my favorite teaser was when when George Lucas announced that he was going to re-release the original Star Wars
01:34:38 ◼ ► But it was like a cathode ray tube TV and it's like, you know, here's what you've seen and it was you're in a movie theater
01:34:46 ◼ ► Floating in space starts showing a Star Wars movie and then an x-wing fighter blows it up and zooms through real big
01:34:54 ◼ ► Star Wars, you know, there's a teaser right? Boom. There you go. And it's telling you here's everything you need to know
01:35:13 ◼ ► It was really kind of bad for you and I was following along remotely watching listening to watching like the the Twitter and seeing
01:35:28 ◼ ► They're not gonna actually not show the shows right over and over and over and then it got towards the end and they're like
01:36:04 ◼ ► in the fall we're going to have this stuff. It's going to be great. Check it out." And then it's
01:36:07 ◼ ► another thing to like load up A-A-A list stars and have them stand on stage and do that.
01:36:14 ◼ ► Pete: Yeah. I don't know. Well, I don't have much more to add, other than I might have to have you
01:36:27 ◼ ► they refused to pretend that there was anything weird about it except that, you know, I said,
01:36:32 ◼ ► look, you know, this is how it's done on the upfronts. He said, well, we don't need to do it
01:36:35 ◼ ► that way. We're Apple. We're different. All right. I don't think that's going to work, but maybe we'll
01:36:40 ◼ ► well, but yes, I will come back in the fall. If you ask Peter Kafka, I really appreciate your
01:36:44 ◼ ► time. I appreciate your insight. And I am so honestly, my, my thought here, we, as we wrap
01:36:49 ◼ ► up the show, my thought is I thank God Peter is as confused as I am because I've really spent the
01:36:58 ◼ ► last week or so. And again, I was away for the first part of it on a vacation. And I thought,
01:37:11 ◼ ► Yeah. But if you want to hear me being confused on a regular basis, there's Re/Code Media with
01:37:15 ◼ ► Peter Kafka available on whatever podcast app you choose, including an episode with yourself
01:37:20 ◼ ► with your Well, it's okay. I was on your show. So they can start by listening to the episode.
01:37:23 ◼ ► that I was on. That is still one of our best episodes, by the way. That's not just flattery.