The Talk Show

247: ‘I Have Faith in the Rice’ With Paul Kafasis


00:00:00   Hey everybody, John here.

00:00:02   Little preface to the show.

00:00:05   Big dummy that I am.

00:00:06   I sort of botched the audio on my end of the show.

00:00:11   So what you're about to hear is a little less audio quality than you're used to.

00:00:15   And I'm very, very sorry about that.

00:00:17   There is no need to tell me.

00:00:18   I am fully aware of what I did and fully aware of the irony that my guest on the show, Paul

00:00:25   Kvassus runs a software company whose software probably if I had used it to record instead of what I did

00:00:31   Probably would have helped me avoid the mistake

00:00:34   So enjoy the show. Sorry about the audio quality

00:00:36   Won't happen again

00:00:39   Well, I just saw you a couple weeks ago. It's always good to say I

00:00:43   I also saw you

00:00:47   We were we were cavorting in Las Vegas beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada

00:00:55   and they have they've it's interesting and you're you're up in the Boston area

00:01:01   Philadelphia the the wind corporation I believe that's the name what's the name

00:01:07   of the holding it's win something you know when whatever to date has has a

00:01:15   casino resort in Las Vegas and then they have two in in Macau over there in China

00:01:22   And then they were going to add a new one in North America and it was just going to be here in Philadelphia

00:01:29   And they had wonderful plans

00:01:32   How'd that work out?

00:01:35   Well the city of Philadelphia decided that I forget I swear to God it came down to

00:01:41   The plans were super extensive and I thought it was really really wonderful

00:01:46   I really thought it was a very interesting plan here in Philadelphia

00:01:50   And then the city of Philadelphia and I swear it came down to like traffic lights like this the city of Philadelphia was like well

00:01:57   We're not gonna pay to have like a turnaround here

00:01:59   You're gonna pay and you're gonna do this and you're gonna do that and the wind company was like, you know, we're gonna do

00:02:05   So they're there they're on the cusp opening right I think what is it three months from tomorrow

00:02:14   All right, so they started booking. What's it called called the on core?

00:02:20   Which is a weird name for the first location.

00:02:23   Right.

00:02:24   Should we touch on it?

00:02:28   Yeah, we should touch on it.

00:02:30   So this resort in Las Vegas was originally the Wynn, then they built the second one, they built the Encore.

00:02:35   And it's all named after a guy named Steve Wynn, who, his real name is Steve Weinberg, so he changed his name to something very good for a casino owner.

00:02:45   But I didn't know that until very late.

00:02:48   I thought that he was just fortuitously named Steve Wynn.

00:02:53   But turns out, turns out to say, but Trump is a good name for a casino owner.

00:02:59   Oh, well, but again, not really.

00:03:02   It was not really, not really the family name.

00:03:04   Right.

00:03:05   They changed it to a couple of generations.

00:03:06   Right as a, who was it?

00:03:07   John Oliver went into, what was it?

00:03:10   Trump.

00:03:11   Yeah, much worse name, but much more predictive of how well his casinos would do.

00:03:18   Very true.

00:03:20   Uh, but yeah, so, so Steve Wynn starts these casinos, uh, turns out

00:03:26   Steve Wynn, terrible sex pervert.

00:03:28   Terrible.

00:03:30   So they're trying to, they're trying to, they're, they're planning to open this

00:03:35   location in Boston and they say, you know what, maybe we take his name off of it.

00:03:40   And so now I'm literally looking out my window at the encore

00:03:45   That is about as the crow flies. I think about four miles from from my house

00:03:51   So it's very strange to see as we were discussing when we were in Las Vegas

00:03:55   The the design of the building is exactly the same. So I flew out of Boston

00:04:01   flew over this building

00:04:04   Six hours later. I landed in Las Vegas and drove to the exact same building

00:04:09   You they you know part of the brand of the wind company is is they have a certain architectural style

00:04:15   You know, they're buildings. I think the two in Macau I get confused. I've never been there

00:04:20   So but there's the the wind palace and I think the other ones just called win. That's right. I think that's right

00:04:28   But they all you know, they have a very distinctive architectural style and colors

00:04:35   So the picture you took of the encore Boston Harbor from from the airplane

00:04:40   Right. It really looked like a Photoshop job. It really looked like you you went full Darth and just

00:04:47   building in there

00:04:49   Well just spent the entire five four and a half hour flight

00:04:52   painstakingly

00:04:55   Photoshopping the encore Las Vegas into the middle of Boston and Boston covered in snow

00:05:02   exactly covered in snow

00:05:04   It's something to see.

00:05:08   I'm looking forward to it.

00:05:09   I'm always looking for an excuse to go up to Boston.

00:05:12   It's my favorite baseball team.

00:05:15   Absolutely.

00:05:16   You're a big fan.

00:05:17   Big fan.

00:05:18   So, we could go up there and maybe catch a ball game or something like that, but now

00:05:23   there will be gambling and all sorts of other stuff you can do at a casino.

00:05:32   It is funny because we were just in Vegas.

00:05:34   So yeah, Steve Wynn, terrible, terrible sex pervert, turns out, really a predator, maybe.

00:05:40   I mean, just often convicted of anything, but had all sorts of all sorts of payoffs

00:05:44   for truly heinous things that it's I'm glad the name is not on there.

00:05:49   I'll say that.

00:05:50   Right.

00:05:51   It Yeah, it's just just awful.

00:05:54   Just awful stuff.

00:05:55   But the company is sort of, you know, they're in a so that he's been forced out.

00:05:59   He was he was the CEO, he was the president, he was the largest shareholder.

00:06:02   And now he's none of the above.

00:06:04   He resigned as the CEO.

00:06:07   He resigned from the board and then he sold all of his shares in the company.

00:06:12   He doesn't even own it anymore.

00:06:17   But the company wasn't really done at that point.

00:06:22   They needed to de Steve, the the complex because, you know, he's very fond of his own picture

00:06:33   and his own voice.

00:06:34   Oh, right, right famously, when you used to go to the website, just just loading the website,

00:06:39   you'd suddenly be hearing from Steve Wynn,

00:06:44   which and very late on top, you know, up until like two years ago, you would go to the the

00:06:48   Las Vegas website and as soon as it finished loading, you would hear him talking.

00:06:53   [Music]

00:06:53   Steve Win (00;00;00;00): Hi, I'm Steve Win and welcome to the website.

00:06:57   We've got easy navigation. It's fast and it's convenient and we're glad you're here. Enjoy.

00:07:03   [Music]

00:07:03   Steve Win (00;00;00;00;00)

00:07:05   Which was a very 1996, 1997 sort of thing to do. When the web first really took off,

00:07:13   a lot of companies didn't really know what to do.

00:07:16   How a website should work.

00:07:18   Right. How much like TV should it be?

00:07:21   And so a lot of them thought, well, you know, this is ridiculous.

00:07:25   You're looking at a screen, that's TV.

00:07:27   We should talk to the people.

00:07:29   And turns out, no.

00:07:30   But we've had this discussion privately before, but you just know

00:07:37   that there was some sort of meeting with the website team.

00:07:43   And Steve Wynn was like, "Well, I think I should talk to these people. I should let them know

00:07:47   where they are, let them know they're at the Wynn website." And you just know that there were

00:07:53   people on that web team who tried to talk him out of it. Unsuccessfully.

00:07:58   And obviously unsuccessfully. So I'm sure that was an easy fix. They just deleted that audio

00:08:07   file. I'm sure that was very satisfying for somebody. But there were all sorts of

00:08:12   bits of Steve Wynn all throughout the complex. There's a restaurant in Las Vegas, Sinatra,

00:08:19   named it's in conjunction with the Frank Sinatra family. Pictures of Frank Sinatra with Steve Wynn

00:08:27   throughout the years. They worked together when Steve Wynn owned the Golden Nugget in

00:08:34   Atlantic City in the late 70s, early 80s. All sorts of pictures of him. Those pictures,

00:08:41   No longer there. They're gone. They're in a closet somewhere with as your wife Amy likes to say that's where the Joe Paterno statue is

00:08:48   Maybe the Smithsonian's Cosby sweaters. I'm sure they had some of those and those are stashed away somewhere now, too. I

00:08:55   Didn't think about that, but I'm sure you're right that the the Smithsonian surely did

00:09:00   have that Disney used to have it Disney World they had like a

00:09:04   TV Hall of Fame sure like sort of busts of famous TV people and and

00:09:10   And step one, they took away Cosby.

00:09:13   And then step two, they just got rid of the whole thing.

00:09:16   The whole attraction is gone.

00:09:17   Yeah, I think they got worried that maybe Betty White maybe had some skeletons in her

00:09:21   closet as well.

00:09:22   They're like, "We got to get rid of all of these."

00:09:25   Who knows what Betty White did.

00:09:26   That's your pick for the next one is Betty White.

00:09:29   Come on.

00:09:30   She is a treasure.

00:09:31   I think she was a predator.

00:09:35   I'm not lodging any accusations.

00:09:37   I'm just saying I wouldn't bet against it.

00:09:40   But anyway, they've completely de-steved the entire Wynn complex, other than the fact that

00:09:46   it is still called the Wynn.

00:09:47   Well, but as we've noted, his ex-wife, Elaine Wynn, who took his name and then kept it,

00:09:57   is now the majority shareholder of the company, right?

00:10:00   Right, that is true.

00:10:01   Well, not majority, I don't think.

00:10:04   She's just the largest shareholder.

00:10:05   Okay, okay.

00:10:06   Like, I don't think she owns more than 50%, but she is the single largest shareholder

00:10:10   in the company. And her last name is also Wynn, although maybe she also wants to change

00:10:14   that at this point, I don't know. Yeah, it's sort of like, it's like I think that they're

00:10:22   going to just turn him into like a Colonel Sanders type figure, you know? Yeah, he was

00:10:26   a real guy, but I feel like after Steve Wynn dies, maybe they'll bring him back as sort

00:10:32   of like a cartoon mascot. And he'll be a lovable, you know, non-predatory.

00:10:38   I would bet against that. I don't think there's any fix in this thing.

00:10:45   Although Colonel Sanders is still around.

00:10:48   As like 15 different mascots right now, right?

00:10:52   Did you ever hear the story where a New York Times food critic, sometime around 1977 or so, took the actual Colonel Sanders into a KFC in Midtown New York?

00:11:07   Oh boy.

00:11:08   This was after, you know, he sold this, you know, sold the, his chain to, you know, to

00:11:14   a nationwide company at some point, you know, 15 years before.

00:11:18   So, so he hadn't really been in direct.

00:11:22   Yeah, it wasn't really, it was a, he was a spokesperson, but he really wasn't involved

00:11:29   with the restaurants.

00:11:30   And so she took him in and, and they went back to the kitchen and he was horrified and

00:11:37   read everybody the riot act about how they were doing everything wrong and and it's pretty I should

00:11:43   see if I can find that but it's a good story in his later years he became highly critical of the

00:11:50   food served by kfc restaurants as he believed they had cut costs and allowed quality to deteriorate

00:11:56   yeah there you go yeah it was all like cost cutting and any you know like the mashed potatoes

00:12:01   aren't really mashed potatoes they're you know some kind of chemical recreation of mashed potatoes

00:12:06   and he's like how the hell can you not you just boil potatoes in there max them up

00:12:11   like this is not you know not tricky food anyway anyway win boston harbor not win encore

00:12:21   encore boston harbor yeah well what's the so there's two there's two things to this name

00:12:25   because it was when they were when they were applying for this and and trying to make it

00:12:30   happen it was the win boston harbor right and now they then they scrubbed his name from it it's the

00:12:34   encore boston harbor but the boston harbor aspect of it is also fallacious because if you

00:12:42   i don't know i don't know maybe you throw a map in the in the show notes or something but

00:12:46   uh i can i'm sitting in boston right now and i can see this but the actual property is in a town

00:12:52   called everette which is just over the line from boston and the waterfront that it will be on is

00:12:58   the mystic river which feeds into boston harbor again about four miles down the road down the

00:13:05   down the stream so i get why they didn't go with the encore everett but they're definitely playing

00:13:13   a little fast and loose with the name here yeah i wonder uh phillies was going to be in the city

00:13:20   proper uh it was going to be right right in the city city i don't want to go on a super long

00:13:27   tangent about it but it Philly has a weird thing where we've got two rivers

00:13:31   we've got the Schuylkill River which most people can't spell S-C-H-U-Y-L-K-I-L-L

00:13:39   the kill part is easy yeah once you get past the school right school now runs

00:13:44   right through the middle of the city and it divides it into you know Drexel and

00:13:48   Penn are on the one side of the river and then Center City Philadelphia is on

00:13:51   the other side and then we've got the the Delaware River which is the border

00:13:56   between Pennsylvania and New Jersey and it's a much bigger wider river.

00:14:02   It's a very wide river. For whatever reason, most cities' riverfront property is prestigious.

00:14:10   It's expensive real estate. People want to live on the water. In Philly, we have I-95

00:14:19   running right along the Delaware. It's a giant superhighway running right down

00:14:27   where it by most logic should be the you know some of the best real estate in the

00:14:33   city. Billions of dollars worth of real estate. And it's just weird and then you

00:14:39   know the land it's just underused and that's where Wynn was going to put

00:14:43   their their casino resort. And they had a really nice plan where they parking is always

00:14:49   an issue with a casino because people drive to the casino and they've got all these cars

00:14:53   and parking garages are ugly. So they had a really nice plan where they were going to

00:14:57   put the whole parking garage underground, everything was going to be underground. And

00:15:00   then on the top of it, about, you know, about one story out, they were going to build, just

00:15:06   put grass and make it a nice public park, it would, you know, wouldn't be like you'd

00:15:10   have to pay or anything. It was going to be a public park right along the river, right next to the

00:15:15   casino. Just as a nice thing for the city here, we're going to build this big casino. We're going

00:15:23   to have all these fancy restaurants and all this stuff. We'll put all the cars underground, and

00:15:27   then on top of it, we'll have a nice little park where anybody can come. Seemed very nice.

00:15:32   Instead, we- And you guys screwed up the whole thing.

00:15:36   We got bubkas. Got absolutely nothing. We got the sugar house.

00:15:41   Well, it's funny, I was looking at the the when Massachusetts legalized casino gambling,

00:15:47   I think they take a 25% cut right off the top in taxes. So it's a huge amount of money going

00:15:55   to the state, which is why they're interested in doing this. And I was looking at the estimates,

00:16:00   and because they're going to have an impact on multiple cities, they have to pay surrounding

00:16:06   community agreements and the city of boston is going to get something like 50 million

00:16:10   over 15 years so you know three or four million a year something like that uh the city of

00:16:15   everette which is i'd have to look but it's a city of under 100 000 people i think is

00:16:20   going to make 472 million over that first 15 years that's the estimate at least holy

00:16:28   crap uh and and you know this is a like i said it's a small city that that this is gonna

00:16:33   like it's gonna be like 20% of their annual budget they're gonna get every year just from

00:16:38   one casino being there.

00:16:40   Oh my god, it's crazy.

00:16:42   So yeah, I don't know, I think Philly blew it.

00:16:45   Yeah, I would say so.

00:16:48   Forty-six thousand in the population and they're gonna get something like 32 million a year

00:16:53   out of just having this casino be on the edge of their city.

00:16:59   That's absolutely crazy.

00:17:01   Yeah, and Philly really was going to have it right in the city.

00:17:03   So we've got one, I think we've only got one that's officially in city limits.

00:17:07   That's the Sugar House I mentioned.

00:17:08   Terrible name.

00:17:09   Which is a terrible name.

00:17:11   It is a terrible casino.

00:17:12   Although, I will say I haven't been there in several years because it's so miserable.

00:17:18   So you think maybe it got slightly less miserable?

00:17:22   I forget if I've even talked about this before, but Amy and I went, I think, twice.

00:17:27   And the one time we went, it was the winter, and everybody had their coats checked.

00:17:32   They don't have a coat check?

00:17:35   Well, I guess they did.

00:17:38   And Amy and I, maybe everybody was thinking the same thing we were, where Amy and I didn't

00:17:42   check our coats because we're like, "I don't think we're going to see."

00:17:45   We want to be able to get out of here, yeah.

00:17:48   But even people who seem to be settled in, playing games and etc., were all wearing their

00:17:52   coats.

00:17:53   It just seemed weird.

00:17:58   It throws you off.

00:18:00   I don't know.

00:18:01   Atlantic City has pretty much identical climate to Philadelphia, and they've had casinos for

00:18:07   an entire generation.

00:18:08   I don't remember this problem, the times I've been to an Atlantic City casino of all

00:18:13   these.

00:18:14   Where do you put your coat?

00:18:15   But it does seem like a weird problem.

00:18:16   Yeah, coats and casinos just don't seem to go well together, like an outdoor jacket.

00:18:21   And again, maybe they have fixed it.

00:18:23   Maybe.

00:18:24   I haven't been there in years.

00:18:25   But the problem with Sugarhouse was when the Pennsylvania State Legislature legalized

00:18:30   gambling, they only legalized slot machines and assorted whatever, video poker.

00:18:38   No table games.

00:18:40   No table games, which seems stupid to me, A, because I don't like to play slot machines.

00:18:46   I like to play table games.

00:18:47   And B, what sense does that make?

00:18:51   I see the argument not to have gambling at all.

00:18:54   I don't see the argument of, you know, you can have slot machines, but you can't have

00:18:59   table games.

00:19:00   It seems to me like if anything, you should do it the other way.

00:19:03   Slot machines are the ones that seem more addictive, and people sort of zone out and,

00:19:07   you know, maybe play too much.

00:19:11   But anyway, before they opened, the Pennsylvania State Legislature came to a census.

00:19:16   Somebody more or less said exactly what I did.

00:19:18   This doesn't make any sense.

00:19:19   Why don't we have table games, too?

00:19:21   And they're like, "Okay."

00:19:22   And then they said, "Okay, we can have table games."

00:19:24   But the Sugar House had already been,

00:19:25   it was already under construction.

00:19:26   - So they had to tack this on?

00:19:28   - Yeah, they had a floor plan that was entirely based

00:19:32   on the idea that they'd only have,

00:19:34   the only gambling would be slot machines and et cetera.

00:19:38   And so they just put the table games,

00:19:42   like Blackjack and Roulette and craps,

00:19:44   they just put them in what clearly were going to be

00:19:47   the aisles between the table games,

00:19:49   between the slot machines. And so you literally like I played

00:19:52   some blackjack and like the back of your chair was right up

00:19:55   against slot machines. It was very strange. And then there was

00:20:00   nowhere really to walk around. It was extremely crowded. And it

00:20:04   was a brand new casino. It was you know, the whole thing was

00:20:07   built from the ground and everyone's bulked up with their

00:20:09   winter jackets. Everybody had puffy coats. I saw a guy I

00:20:16   remember this when Amy and I were there. Let's have one drink

00:20:19   and then we'll hit the road.

00:20:21   Let's get out of here."

00:20:23   So we went over to a bar.

00:20:24   And you know how in a casino, a lot of times

00:20:27   the bars will have video poker built right into the bar.

00:20:29   Sure, they got to keep taking as much of your money as possible.

00:20:33   Yeah, why not?

00:20:34   And it wasn't crowded.

00:20:35   And so Amy and I sat down, and there was a guy to my left.

00:20:38   And I looked over, and he had like--

00:20:42   I wasn't trying to rubberneck.

00:20:44   I feel like that's rude, but I looked

00:20:46   to see what he was playing.

00:20:47   He was playing video poker.

00:20:48   and he had like 4,000 credits.

00:20:50   And I was like, holy crap, man.

00:20:52   And I was like, what the hell is that?

00:20:52   And I was like, I think those are quarters, but that's--

00:20:55   That's about 1,000 bucks.

00:20:57   And he was right next to me, so I wanted to be discreet about it.

00:21:02   I wanted to get Amy's attention and say, hey, this guy's got like 1,000 bucks

00:21:04   on this thing.

00:21:05   But I didn't really have an opportunity to talk.

00:21:08   And then I look over again, and it said 6,000.

00:21:10   And I was like, holy crap.

00:21:12   And then it was 8,500.

00:21:14   So I was like, holy shit, this guy's making a mint.

00:21:16   And by the time I got Amy's attention, it was back down to like a thousand.

00:21:22   So this guy in the course of like 10 minutes had won over a thousand dollars in video poker

00:21:29   and then lost close to two thousand.

00:21:32   And you would never know it.

00:21:33   You'd never know he was playing for more.

00:21:35   You'd think he was playing for like five bucks or something.

00:21:37   It was just total robot, you know, just hitting buttons, but playing super fast.

00:21:43   So you're saying this casino is going to be a great thing here in Boston.

00:21:47   It's going to go well for everybody.

00:21:51   I see no problems stemming from this.

00:21:54   I don't know.

00:21:56   You're not really a gambler, are you?

00:21:59   No, I think we've talked about this a little bit.

00:22:02   Any money that I would win gambling would be, "Okay, that's nice."

00:22:06   And any money that I would lose gambling, I would think, "What the hell did I just do?"

00:22:10   You're too sensible.

00:22:12   Yeah, the upshot is so minimal compared to the downside for me.

00:22:16   Right.

00:22:17   Yeah, I'm like an evil Paul Kavas.

00:22:24   I think we both have equal understanding of the mathematics and how screwed you are ultimately

00:22:31   playing any of these games.

00:22:33   And I can completely disassociate.

00:22:36   And enjoy it.

00:22:38   From the math.

00:22:40   I feel I I don't believe it, you know, like right now talking to you in in the light of day. I

00:22:47   Know it's not true

00:22:50   But while I'm playing I feel like I get what I deserve

00:22:54   I feel like there are blackjack gods and and if I've been a good boy, I get good cards

00:22:59   and if

00:23:01   If I've done done the universe wrong karma comes and gets me and I get a bunch of 16

00:23:05   Do you believe in karma anywhere else or only at the blackjack table?

00:23:09   Only at, only at, well, in craps. Sure, sure. Yeah. Well, actually, let me take a break here

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00:25:01   Here's what you do. You get a 30 day trial when you go to audible.com/talk show or just

00:25:08   text talk show to 500500. You just text that code there and, and you can listen. So that's

00:25:18   a 30 day free trial at audible.com/talk show. Hey, it's your good friend John here. I'm

00:25:24   I'm a big dummy and I forgot to make a book recommendation.

00:25:29   And our friends at Audible always want a book recommendation.

00:25:32   This time it's easy.

00:25:34   It's Ken Kachenda's Creative Selection.

00:25:37   That's the book that came out last year.

00:25:38   Ken worked at Apple, worked on the original iPhone team,

00:25:43   and it is simply a fantastic book.

00:25:45   Anybody who enjoys this show is gonna love this book.

00:25:49   And the audio book is read by Ken Kachenda himself,

00:25:53   which I think is always great.

00:25:54   So there's my selection, creative selection by Ken Kaczenda.

00:25:58   Here, hold on one second here, Paul.

00:26:00   I got a special guest.

00:26:02   All right.

00:26:03   I'm Amy Jane Gruber.

00:26:04   And I'm Paul Kaposis.

00:26:07   And you're listening to Just the T—

00:26:09   Inside of the Talk Show.

00:26:11   We're totally taking it away.

00:26:13   What do you want to talk about today, Paul?

00:26:16   Anything but technology.

00:26:18   Oh, it's so funny because I actually had like an Apple store.

00:26:22   Oh, well, go ahead.

00:26:24   Guess who's the jackass who washed her iPods two days before the new ones come out?

00:26:29   Wait, isn't that- you washed your little case with the AirPods in it?

00:26:33   The AirPods, iPods, whatever.

00:26:34   And they're dead?

00:26:35   Well, one.

00:26:36   One is dead and one sounds a little squishy.

00:26:41   So wait, isn't that perfect?

00:26:42   I mean, maybe you didn't have an excuse to update before and now, well, whoops.

00:26:47   Yeah, but now I'm like, I'm without iPods and I'm walking around and it's so funny because

00:26:53   When they first came out, you thought everyone looked stupid.

00:26:58   You know, these little things dangling from your ears.

00:27:01   People with cords look so dumb.

00:27:03   I feel like an idiot.

00:27:04   - Oh, you're walking around all corded,

00:27:05   all tethered to your whatever.

00:27:08   - Yeah, I'm all walking away from things

00:27:11   and forgetting to grab my phone.

00:27:12   It's horrible.

00:27:14   It's horrible.

00:27:14   - I, you might know a guy who could get you a new pair.

00:27:18   I don't know.

00:27:19   He might have a little bit of pull.

00:27:22   Well, I mean, I can walk into an Apple store, same as anybody, but I need them now and I can't buy them now.

00:27:29   Ah.

00:27:31   I need them right now.

00:27:33   I think you're stuck living a corded life for another week or two.

00:27:38   Yeah, when do they come out?

00:27:40   Uh, I don't know. They ship in next week, something? I don't know. You gotta...

00:27:45   You might be too late now. It might take weeks. You could be tethered to your phone for weeks.

00:27:51   Look at us talking about Apple stuff.

00:27:53   I mean, I call everything all the wrong name.

00:27:55   Uh, yeah, that's pretty much all I got in terms of stuff.

00:28:00   Uh, I took a tumble, uh, Scarlet took a tumble.

00:28:04   You took a tumble.

00:28:05   Tell me more.

00:28:06   I almost lost a tooth.

00:28:08   Well, no, I didn't almost lose a tooth.

00:28:10   I went to the dentist.

00:28:11   I didn't lose tooth, uh, just some, some damage.

00:28:14   I took a tumble.

00:28:15   Hold on, hold on.

00:28:16   It was very embarrassing.

00:28:18   - You took enough of a tumble that you,

00:28:20   was your next move to go to the dentist?

00:28:23   - No, because I thought I felt okay.

00:28:26   And then my tooth started to kind of hurt.

00:28:29   And then I just convinced myself

00:28:30   that it was going to turn black and fall out.

00:28:32   - Sure.

00:28:34   - So I went to the dentist and they're all like talking

00:28:36   about bruised ligaments and you know,

00:28:38   that I should be fine.

00:28:39   And I was like, just tell me,

00:28:41   is my tooth going to turn black and fall out?

00:28:43   And they said, most definitely not.

00:28:45   And I said, let me out.

00:28:46   - I'm out of here, I'm good.

00:28:48   Yeah, that was all I needed. That was all I needed.

00:28:51   Alright. Uh, but you're okay.

00:28:53   Yeah, I'm totally, totally fine. Uh, I thought I broke my nose then.

00:28:59   I'm a little bit of a hypochondriac, really.

00:29:02   Well, wait. But a hypochondriac has like a cough and thinks they have deadly swine flu.

00:29:06   You... it sounds like you smashed your face into something.

00:29:10   I don't think that's su- I don't know that that qualifies as being a hypochondriac.

00:29:14   I have a red dot on my nose and it kind of hurts when I smile so don't make me laugh.

00:29:18   No problem there. Let's keep it somber.

00:29:22   No problem there on this show. Should we let him play? Should we have a special guest on the show?

00:29:27   Oh, no, we have a rule. No guests. No guests. Sorry, John.

00:29:31   When we're done the show's over. So he I hope he got all his ad reads in.

00:29:35   Do you know how we had like a vow to say like oh this you know, not say this will all be cut.

00:29:43   This won't happen.

00:29:45   His show doesn't have that rule, so...

00:29:47   [laughter]

00:29:49   This is getting cut.

00:29:50   Well now wait, so this is back to...

00:29:52   Let's get it back on topic, Amy. Let's keep it back on track.

00:29:55   Did your...

00:29:56   Do you want to talk about my tumble?

00:29:57   Do you want to talk about how I just got my glasses straightened so I don't look crazy anymore?

00:30:01   Have you ever noticed if somebody's glasses are a little crooked, they look crazy?

00:30:04   They look nuts!

00:30:05   Yeah, I just walked in and I was like, "Unnetting Professor Me!"

00:30:08   Professor B, and first of all, the kid was too young to have any idea what I was talking about.

00:30:13   I'm probably too young.

00:30:15   I was totally gonna go with Jerry Lewis on that though, yeah.

00:30:18   That's totally the Jerry Lewis look.

00:30:21   Yeah, well this kid didn't know what I was talking about.

00:30:24   He was 12.

00:30:26   I mean, so, yeah, so I got those straightened out.

00:30:29   Alright, but you're okay.

00:30:31   Yeah, I'm totally fine. I'm totally fine.

00:30:33   Then we don't care about this anymore.

00:30:35   Your AirPods though, your AirPods I'm worried about.

00:30:38   Yeah, so am I.

00:30:39   They're upstairs in a bag of rice.

00:30:41   I'm walking around with the wires.

00:30:42   Were they in their case when they went in the wash?

00:30:45   Yes. Really?

00:30:46   Yes. See, 'cause I--

00:30:47   See, this all relates to my tumble because--

00:30:50   Oh, huh, huh, sure.

00:30:52   The tumble took me off my game.

00:30:54   Like, I don't wash things with things in the pockets.

00:30:57   Like, I was off my game yesterday.

00:31:00   I was really scared, I was convinced,

00:31:02   black front tooth, you know, broken nose.

00:31:05   I'm just gonna say this is totally false. She washes my pants with stuff in the pockets all the time.

00:31:09   Wait, that's on you! That's a- she just- her responsibility ends with her stuff and maybe the boys.

00:31:14   Oh, yeah.

00:31:15   Yeah, no, I don't even- well, I steal their money. I do steal their money. But that, like, pops out.

00:31:21   Uh, that's a true mom move to steal all the money you find in the washer.

00:31:26   You gotta get paid for this somehow.

00:31:27   Yeah, but uh, yeah, I don't check their pockets for things.

00:31:32   [laughter]

00:31:33   That's on them.

00:31:34   All right.

00:31:34   But so you usually, you usually keep your pockets free and clear

00:31:38   before they go in the wash.

00:31:39   Yeah.

00:31:40   Yeah.

00:31:41   So it's, it all comes back to the tumble and, uh, I mean, it was bound to happen.

00:31:45   It just happened at the absolute worst time.

00:31:47   So I, I slide my AirPods into my, my little jeans, fifth pocket all the time.

00:31:53   It's the only thing I've ever used that pocket for.

00:31:55   And I think that's like the greatest feature that Apple has not even mentioned

00:31:58   is that they fit right in there.

00:32:00   But I, I'm a woman.

00:32:01   We don't have pockets at all.

00:32:02   pocket is also usually fake, but it was in my gym clothes.

00:32:07   I managed to wash mine in the case and I pulled them out and I said, "Ah, hell."

00:32:11   And to my knowledge, there has been no issue.

00:32:14   So I don't know.

00:32:15   Do you use, you know, they've got the gentle cycle.

00:32:18   Were you on like the rough cycle?

00:32:19   Yeah, my clothes are real dirty.

00:32:23   Real dirty in the pits.

00:32:26   No.

00:32:26   Uh, no, I just, well, one of them, one of them works.

00:32:31   So, you know, it's not that bad.

00:32:34   - I don't know, it's pretty bad.

00:32:35   - No, we've got the rice.

00:32:39   I mean, I have faith in the rice.

00:32:41   (laughing)

00:32:43   Maybe misplaced faith in the rice.

00:32:46   You should see John's setup down here.

00:32:48   He's like in our basement.

00:32:50   He's staring at a wall.

00:32:52   This is not, I can't even tell you about his desk.

00:32:55   Does he do show notes?

00:32:56   Can I take a picture of this desk?

00:32:58   - Yes.

00:32:59   - What he's working with here?

00:32:59   - Yes.

00:33:00   - No. - Yes.

00:33:01   Yes you may. You can and you will.

00:33:04   This is terrible.

00:33:07   And the travesty that is his disgusting desk will be shared with the world.

00:33:11   This is terrible. Oh, and I'm looking at his computer.

00:33:14   You know he had a guy on here named Rich Mogul?

00:33:16   What a name!

00:33:18   I'm aware of Rich.

00:33:19   Good dude.

00:33:21   I am not. But...

00:33:23   Hell of a name though. You're right.

00:33:25   Hell of a name. I hope it's working out for him.

00:33:30   Well, I mean, I guess that's about all my time.

00:33:32   I feel like we've done 30 minutes.

00:33:34   Are we gonna be able to get our theme song here?

00:33:40   We can make it happen.

00:33:42   Just the tip

00:33:44   Amy and Paul

00:33:46   The best darn podcast

00:33:50   Of them all

00:33:52   Just the tip

00:33:54   Amy and Paul

00:33:56   The best darn podcast

00:33:58   Podcast of them all

00:34:01   If only I knew a guy really good at audio I might I might be able to make it happen

00:34:11   Well now he sprung this on me too early this this is how we should have ended the show

00:34:18   But now I got to go back and talk his nonsense. Oh

00:34:20   Yeah, I know. Well, you know what everyone else will be so glad that it's done. I

00:34:28   I don't, I don't, I think these people are going to complain.

00:34:31   We just got a text from Audible. They called it off.

00:34:36   The whole thing's off. They're not paying for that ad.

00:34:38   Right.

00:34:40   I don't remember how we used to end our show.

00:34:44   Just walk away. Just footstep noises walking away.

00:34:48   Wait. Okay, I'm gonna flip this janky desk over and walk away.

00:34:57   [sad trombone]

00:34:59   [laughter]

00:35:01   Who did Santa's hair blow?

00:35:03   [laughter]

00:35:05   There we go, wasn't that fun?

00:35:07   What a delightful treat.

00:35:09   It's like old days.

00:35:11   It's like...

00:35:13   just like hanging out with you two weeks ago.

00:35:15   We're having fun,

00:35:17   we're stuck there thinking about going to play Blackjack.

00:35:19   Right.

00:35:21   I'm working on my sports path.

00:35:23   [laughter]

00:35:25   Who you got in the tournament, John?

00:35:27   I got the same pick I've made for around 27 consecutive years.

00:35:32   I've got the University of North Carolina going all the way.

00:35:35   That's worked out well multiple times in the recent past.

00:35:39   But I'm sick to my stomach because you

00:35:41   know who's going to win?

00:35:43   You think Duke's actually going to win?

00:35:47   The best thing that ever happened to Duke-- and I hate Duke.

00:35:50   I've been lifelong North Carolina fan, so I hate Duke.

00:35:53   And I really don't like Coach K. I

00:35:54   I think he's a smug arrogant.

00:35:57   I just, there's something about that guy

00:35:58   that rubs me the wrong way.

00:35:59   I don't like his black hair.

00:36:01   That's fake, come on.

00:36:02   The guy's 70 years old

00:36:03   and he's got a head full of black hair.

00:36:06   Don't like him, but I'll tell you what,

00:36:08   best thing that ever happened to him,

00:36:09   that team this year was Zion Williamson

00:36:12   going down for a couple of games

00:36:13   and they look bad without him.

00:36:15   - Right.

00:36:16   - And then he came back and he,

00:36:17   (laughs)

00:36:18   he looks like if you made like a comedy video

00:36:23   where you took an NBA star and had him play against an eighth grade team.

00:36:28   That is what he looks like playing against elite teams in the ACC.

00:36:32   He came back, and it was just unbelievable.

00:36:35   He had one game.

00:36:36   His first game back, he didn't miss a shot.

00:36:39   He was like 13 for 13 or 14 for 14 from the field.

00:36:43   And they were all dunks.

00:36:45   He literally didn't miss a shot.

00:36:48   They're unfortunately dominant.

00:36:53   I mean, it's hopefully something terrible,

00:36:55   you know, not an injury.

00:36:56   I've never read for an injury,

00:36:58   but some kind of fluke, bad luck afflicts them.

00:37:01   - All right.

00:37:02   - Who do you got?

00:37:04   - Well, so I do a bracket

00:37:07   with some idiot friends from college,

00:37:09   and I'm including myself in that.

00:37:10   I'm one of the idiot friends.

00:37:12   But my move is to grab a celebrity bracket

00:37:15   and then change like three things.

00:37:18   So I grabbed a bracket that had Gonzaga

00:37:22   and I honestly couldn't tell you much more.

00:37:24   I've got Duke losing, I think in the final four,

00:37:28   'cause I think they've had their first Gonzaga.

00:37:30   So I think I've got them losing there, but.

00:37:32   - Yeah, yeah.

00:37:33   It's set up where if the favorites win,

00:37:35   it would be Duke and Gonzaga in the final four.

00:37:37   - Right.

00:37:38   - Here's one.

00:37:41   I noticed this while I was filling out my bracket

00:37:43   And I don't mean, if there are alumni

00:37:48   of this university listening,

00:37:50   I'm really not trying to slag on it.

00:37:54   But for the first time in my life,

00:37:56   it really struck me what an unusual name Ole Miss is.

00:38:00   - Is that their proper name?

00:38:03   - I don't even know, is it?

00:38:06   That's how it's listed on the bracket, O-L-E-M-I-S-S.

00:38:08   - Yeah, no, it's University of Mississippi.

00:38:11   I'm looking at their Wikipedia page,

00:38:12   colloquial colloquial II known as Ole Miss. Yeah, that is a it's a very strange name

00:38:17   So when you get your diploma, it doesn't say Ole Miss probably not

00:38:21   Unusual name

00:38:26   like

00:38:27   Particularly the oh, well, right, right. Right. It's not ol apostrophe. It's right

00:38:32   Right. I could even give them the apostrophe if that's what you that's how you say it, you know, like like

00:38:39   In that part of the country people will often use the

00:38:44   Collective second person pronoun y'all we're sure and you would which I believe is properly spelled y apostrophe a ll

00:38:54   Which is actually linguistically a much-needed

00:38:58   pronoun in the English language probably this in my opinion the single biggest deficiency in

00:39:03   standard written English is the lack of a a

00:39:09   Second person plural sure

00:39:11   You know here in Philly. We've got use

00:39:14   Don't don't even these don't even talk about Pittsburgh. I get sick to my stomach here in this one

00:39:19   I'm sorry people from Pittsburgh, but it's disgusting

00:39:23   Young so is it young sir years?

00:39:27   Yeah, oh, we should get a me background. She could tell us I

00:39:31   Forget what it is, but it I?

00:39:35   I remember the first time I went out there to see her,

00:39:37   which my wife Amy was both an undergrad

00:39:40   and then went to Pitt Law School.

00:39:42   The first time I went out there,

00:39:44   heard people say "Yinz,"

00:39:46   I honestly looked around like for hidden cameras.

00:39:48   Like I thought maybe I was on the punk show or something.

00:39:52   - Right, 'cause it's not something that's,

00:39:53   like you'll hear y'all in the Northeast,

00:39:56   not often, but you'll hear it

00:39:57   and understand what it means.

00:39:59   That one, I think I first heard it

00:40:01   when I first visited Pittsburgh as well

00:40:03   I had no idea what it even meant.

00:40:06   Yeah.

00:40:07   Pittsburgh, I've always said that Pittsburgh is the closest, in my opinion, the closest

00:40:14   America gets to Springfield from the Simpsons, where it is nowhere.

00:40:23   It's not the Midwest.

00:40:24   It is not the East Coast.

00:40:27   They have their own brand of beer that everybody drinks exactly, you know, where Springfield

00:40:32   has duff.

00:40:33   Pittsburgh has, I can't say it right, it's Iron City, but they have a very particular way of pronouncing it, Iron City.

00:40:43   Iron City beer. And it's everywhere. And you can't get it anywhere else. There is nowhere else to get it.

00:40:51   And they say things that nobody else says. It's a charming city, but it is really unusual.

00:41:02   All right now that we've offended all the people from Pittsburgh

00:41:05   And the people from Ole Miss sure

00:41:08   Well, I don't think we've offended them. I think even they would admit that is an unusual name

00:41:13   Yeah, I just did a quick look. I can't see an indication of where that originates without you know doing a deeper dive

00:41:18   Yeah, yeah, and can you think of another school that has an old man nickname?

00:41:23   Yeah, well that just goes by something that is other than its real name. Yeah, huh?

00:41:28   I mean nobody I would you say the real name is I don't have no idea Mississippi University, Mississippi

00:41:32   University of Mississippi. Yeah, I think I guess I don't know. I don't know anyone who went to Ole Miss

00:41:38   So, I don't know if they identify as being from Ole Miss or University of Mississippi. I don't know

00:41:42   Yeah

00:41:45   Somebody let me know let me know what's on the diploma. There you go. Get a picture of that diploma

00:41:49   We got lots of news to cover Apple Apple had an unusual week where I

00:41:57   I can't think of anything else quite like it. So there's an event next week on Monday, March 25th,

00:42:04   which is much rumored to be about subscription services. We'll get to that at the end of the show.

00:42:08   I heard reliably, although not from someone at Apple secondhand, but somebody else in the press,

00:42:15   it was Panzareno, I'll just say it. I had heard that word was out over a week,

00:42:24   well over a week ago that there would be "no hardware" at the Apple event on March 25th.

00:42:30   Yet there were all sorts of devices and things that were rumored to be imminent.

00:42:36   iMacs were overdue for an update. Everybody has been thinking that there's new

00:42:45   AirPods coming out, which was true, and that none of this would come out at the event. Turns out it

00:42:50   It all came out drip by drip, day by day, this week.

00:42:55   Right, right.

00:42:56   Three straight days of announcements, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, just press release and

00:43:03   here's some new hardware.

00:43:04   Yeah, and then it got people into sort of like a fever.

00:43:08   People got excited.

00:43:09   Right, nothing came on Thursday.

00:43:13   Everybody was convinced that we were going to get a new Apple product every day, like

00:43:16   maybe for the rest of time.

00:43:18   At least for the rest of the week.

00:43:19   Right.

00:43:20   MacRumors even ran a story, they're like, "I knew iPod Touch is coming tomorrow."

00:43:25   And it didn't.

00:43:27   But it was a good guess.

00:43:29   They had a good shot, yeah.

00:43:32   Yeah.

00:43:33   No, but the other curious thing from the inside, here we go into, like I always say, director's

00:43:39   commentary on during Fireball.

00:43:40   The interesting part, which I can now say, is that on Monday, I was in New York, and

00:43:45   had similar briefings in Cupertino for the West Coast press, but they had press briefings Monday

00:43:52   in New York and Cupertino for the new iMacs and the new iPads, the iPad Air and the iPad Mini. That

00:44:03   was where I took delivery of a review unit of the iPad Mini. But there was absolutely no mention

00:44:11   Monday about new AirPods. They didn't tell us about it. They didn't have them there for

00:44:15   us to see. To my knowledge, nobody got review units. If somebody has a review unit, it's

00:44:21   not me and the reviews aren't out yet.

00:44:23   Right. You had mentioned that you'd gotten this iPad mini and I said, "Well, is there

00:44:28   any news on new AirPods?" And you said, "No, nothing else. Just the iPads and the iMac."

00:44:34   And then Wednesday, you look like an idiot.

00:44:37   Because there they are. There's the new AirPods. I think I understand their strategy. I mean,

00:44:45   one thing about Apple PR is they do not like to explain themselves.

00:44:50   For public relations and marketing, getting the silo treatment on things.

00:44:57   Well they love to explain their products, but they do not like to explain their strategy.

00:45:02   So asking them, "Hey, why did you not give us AirPods?"

00:45:07   They'll have an answer, but it's just some kind of nonsense answer.

00:45:12   But I think the thinking is twofold.

00:45:15   I think, one, the day-by-day strategy was just to keep Apple in the news cycle leading

00:45:24   up to next week's event.

00:45:25   So Monday, there was Apple News.

00:45:29   Tuesday there was Apple News.

00:45:31   Wait, is that right?

00:45:33   When was the AirPods?

00:45:35   Did it start with the iPads and then do the iMacs?

00:45:38   Is that the right order?

00:45:39   Yeah, is that right?

00:45:41   I think that is right.

00:45:42   Yeah.

00:45:43   I think the iMacs were under embargo until Tuesday, the news about them.

00:45:50   And then Wednesday was the AirPods 2.

00:45:52   They're not really calling it AirPods 2.

00:45:55   They're just the new AirPods.

00:45:58   And then Thursday was the reviews of the iMac Mini came out.

00:46:03   Just to, you know, that was something.

00:46:04   And then I guess today there's…

00:46:05   I pet Mini.

00:46:06   I pet Mini.

00:46:07   What did I say?

00:46:08   I Mac Mini, which I didn't know what that would be.

00:46:12   Just be like the old 17-inch flower power.

00:46:15   Just a smaller iMac.

00:46:18   Yeah.

00:46:19   So I think that the basic idea was just, hey, let's have a little bit of news every day

00:46:24   of the week just to keep Apple in the news.

00:46:26   And then everybody will be thinking about Apple leading up to Monday's big event.

00:46:31   Presumably all the big stuff will be announced.

00:46:33   JEFF DEIST Because otherwise, people aren't thinking

00:46:34   about the biggest company in the world.

00:46:36   They just—if they don't do something every single day of the week, people won't pay

00:46:42   any attention.

00:46:43   JAY P. HENRY People will forget about Apple.

00:46:45   And I think that maybe the reason they didn't see review units of AirPod, the new AirPods,

00:46:51   that they, at least according to their website, they require the very latest version of MacOS

00:46:58   and iOS.

00:46:59   >> Newer than we currently have right now, you mean?

00:47:02   >> Right.

00:47:03   Like, it's iOS 12.2 and MacOS 10.14 point whatever, which are currently in beta as we

00:47:12   record and this week, and presumably will come out on Monday, I guess after the event

00:47:18   and before people start getting these AirPods.

00:47:20   Um, and I guess the, I, you know, it makes sense to me that they, it, for whatever

00:47:24   technical reason that is that, that they require these very latest Mac OS and iOS

00:47:30   versions, they don't want reviewers to have to install beta versions of, you

00:47:34   know, Mac OS and iOS just to test AirPods.

00:47:36   So I, I don't know.

00:47:38   But if they gave you an iPad, what's the iPad mini running?

00:47:40   That's a good question.

00:47:42   I don't have it handy.

00:47:43   Uh, I guess it's running 12.1 point, whatever.

00:47:50   I don't know, I should look. I don't have it handy though. It's not running 12.2 though.

00:47:56   You're sure it's not?

00:47:57   Pretty sure.

00:47:58   Because, I mean, they certainly, if they give you, I mean, I guess that's risky. If you

00:48:02   give out a review unit with a beta OS and there's some sort of an issue, then you don't

00:48:06   know whether to ascribe it to the hardware or the software.

00:48:09   Yeah, I'm trying to think if they've ever done that before. Not really. I don't think

00:48:14   They tend not to do that.

00:48:18   The weirdest thing they've ever done, in my experience, is AirPod-related, where back

00:48:22   whatever year it was when the AirPods came out, they gave us "prototype" AirPods after

00:48:29   the…was it the September event?

00:48:31   I think so.

00:48:32   It was 2016, yeah.

00:48:33   It was like September or October of 2016.

00:48:36   So they gave the people who got the phones for review, they gave them AirPods, but they

00:48:40   these are prototypes and we will need these back when we ship the real air pots and then like and

00:48:47   they're usually very lax about like asking for review hardware back like every once in a while

00:48:52   you get I get like a reminder that says like here's you know here's the inventory of the stuff

00:48:56   that's sitting somewhere in your house sitting somewhere in my office here's all the stuff you

00:49:01   have that's sitting in your office that you should send back and then I just send it you know I put

00:49:05   it all. Like I tend to do it in a terrible dump. Just throw it all in one rubber made

00:49:11   crate and slap a shipping label on there.

00:49:13   Yeah, and just ship it all back to Apple all at once. But they're very nice about it. It's

00:49:19   all very lax. But with those AirPods, the day that the real ones came out and they're

00:49:25   like, "Okay, we're now shipping AirPods," they were like, "Please send us back the

00:49:27   prototypes. Here is a FedEx prepaid label. We need this tomorrow."

00:49:33   So how many weeks did it take you to get them back to them, John?

00:49:37   No, I sent it-- it was very clear that they wanted them back immediately.

00:49:40   And so I actually sent them back right on the day.

00:49:42   I was like, I don't know why they have such a, you know,

00:49:46   ants in their pants on this issue.

00:49:47   But whatever it is, I'll send it back.

00:49:49   And the funny thing is, I know I had them.

00:49:52   Panzareno had them.

00:49:53   Renee had them.

00:49:54   A bunch of people who were regular guests on the show had those.

00:49:58   And all of us agreed.

00:49:59   They were-- there was no way to tell that they were not AirPods.

00:50:02   That's what I was going to ask. Was there any physical difference that you could see?

00:50:05   No physical difference. No functional difference. I have no idea what made those

00:50:11   "prototypes" and what the difference was. The experience of using them was exactly the same.

00:50:18   Interesting.

00:50:18   But anyway, what do you want to talk about first?

00:50:23   Well, we're talking AirPods. Should we talk battery life on the AirPods?

00:50:27   Yeah, yeah. So that's a good topic.

00:50:31   So this was interesting.

00:50:33   I sent you an article and then I can't remember if it's from this article or yeah.

00:50:37   So the article talks about how two years ago, this guy heard everybody on podcast raving

00:50:42   about AirPods and so he decided to buy a pair.

00:50:44   And now two years later, you know, early 2017, he buys them early 2019.

00:50:50   He's had them for a couple of years and that the battery life on them is crap.

00:50:54   And that now he hears all sorts of people on podcasts complaining about a similar issue

00:50:58   with poor battery life on their AirPods. And I know you and I have had discussions with several

00:51:04   people who've run into this exact same issue. Yeah, Amy's got that issue. And it didn't do it.

00:51:09   Before they went through the watch. Before they went through the watch.

00:51:13   Let's set that aside as a caveat. Yeah. And I've noticed too, because I tend to,

00:51:19   like one of the things I do, I listen to long podcasts, I listen to like ATP. And I listen to

00:51:27   a long enough podcast and I get to the point where they start playing that sad little beep

00:51:33   boop boop. Right. Yeah. So I use them, I have them with me most days, but I use them for

00:51:39   brief phone calls and maybe a little bit of music listening. I almost never hit this.

00:51:44   So I have not had any complaints about the battery life, but it's very clear that, you know, battery,

00:51:50   we all know batteries degrade over time. And these do not through cycles, right? Not just time,

00:51:56   But you know as as you charge and discharge and charge and discharge that the battery deteriorates

00:52:03   So I and and these these devices have really no way for somebody to replace the battery

00:52:10   so, you know the iPhone obviously famously had issues with batteries and an Apple Institute of replacement plan and

00:52:17   You had to go to Apple to do it and you still have to go to Apple to do it

00:52:21   But it is possible to do to my knowledge

00:52:23   Apple does not have anything for the batteries in the AirPods. Is that right?

00:52:26   No, I don't think so. No, they definitely right

00:52:30   So so if you if you two years in if your AirPods if their batteries are so crummy that you know

00:52:37   They're unusable or you're not getting enough use time out of them. Your option is pretty much

00:52:42   Throw them away or hopefully recycle them with Apple I think but not

00:52:46   Not not get a new battery for 50 bucks or even you know any amount of money

00:52:52   Yeah, there's no replacement for it. And it does seem wasteful now. You really think about it.

00:52:58   They're $160. They still sound great, right? It's just the battery, right? There's nothing

00:53:05   wrong with mine, which I've had since December of 2016, I guess now. Absolutely nothing wrong

00:53:12   with them. I've never lost one, amazingly, yet. And my battery life is okay, but I can definitely

00:53:18   tell it's not as good as it used to be because when they were brand new I never heard that sound

00:53:22   right I remember people saying it and I was like well I got to like keep these out of the case

00:53:26   because I that one of the ways that I've never lost one you put it right back in the dance right

00:53:32   I'm very very very religious about like it's either in my ear in my hand or in the case

00:53:38   absolutely never put them anywhere else and so but you keep putting them in the case and they

00:53:42   keep charging through cycles right right it was only you know I would say only in the last year

00:53:48   have I started hearing that sound and I don't my use isn't any different so they clearly don't get

00:53:53   as good a battery life as they used to. And as you said it's interesting because these are,

00:53:59   Amy noted that when these first came out people said well they look dumb and I have definitely

00:54:05   noticed in the past six months that it is very rare to see somebody using headphones that are

00:54:11   not AirPods. I shouldn't say very rare but it's very common to see them the same way 10 or 15

00:54:16   years ago you'd see the white corded headphones for iPods. AirPods have become that which is

00:54:22   incredible. But if they have a two year or even even a three year lifespan and then they're

00:54:29   literally just trash that's pretty bad for a high-end product. The iPod headphones were

00:54:36   20 or 30 bucks which was probably too expensive for what they were but they were cheap by

00:54:40   comparison and you know if those got disposable because the cord frayed or whatever not the end of

00:54:46   end of the world, but when you're paying $160 for a pair of headphones, it's not unreasonable

00:54:51   to think, "Hey, these should last me, I don't know what the right number is, but five or

00:54:55   ten years, and if I have to pay a little bit to replace the battery, okay."

00:55:00   But Apple has obviously moved away from any sort of replaceable battery.

00:55:04   I don't think there's, just off the top of my head, I can't think of any product where

00:55:08   you can replace the battery short of taking it to Apple at least.

00:55:13   Yeah, it seems like a shame.

00:55:14   I mean, I get it.

00:55:15   You know, there's just these little things that are glued together.

00:55:19   But it's one of those things that I feel, they're very futuristic, right?

00:55:25   Like if you could go back in time and say, "Oh my God, you're going to have these wireless

00:55:28   headphones with practically no latency, and they run for hours, and they stay in perfect

00:55:35   sync even though they're not connected to each other at all."

00:55:39   You'd be like, "That's an amazing futuristic product."

00:55:41   But I can't help but think that like 10, 20 years from now, we're going to look back and

00:55:45   say, "My God, what a waste.

00:55:46   We're spending $160 on these things that only lasted three years."

00:55:50   Right.

00:55:51   Well, and it's funny because I haven't hit this battery issue yet, but sooner or later

00:55:55   I will, and I'll want to replace them.

00:55:58   And I feel bad saying it, but I'll probably buy another pair of AirPods.

00:56:03   And like I said, I hope they recycle them.

00:56:05   I hope you can turn them into Apple.

00:56:07   I haven't looked to see if you're able to do that.

00:56:08   I assume so.

00:56:09   But even that's a pretty poor way to handle it as opposed to throwing a new battery in

00:56:16   there or some sort of upgrade that currently isn't possible.

00:56:22   Yeah.

00:56:23   So the new ones, they have a new chip, the H1 chip, which when I first linked it up,

00:56:29   I was like, "I wonder why?"

00:56:31   Because the other ones had the W1 chip, which I thought was wireless.

00:56:37   I guess that's what the W was.

00:56:39   But now the watches still have W chips.

00:56:42   Their system chips are the S. So it's like the S3 or the S2.

00:56:46   And then they have the W chip for their wireless communication.

00:56:49   But these headphones, the new AirPods have the H1.

00:56:53   And I wondered about it.

00:56:54   And then I got an answer from somebody who would

00:56:56   know that the H is for headphones.

00:56:57   That was certainly the assumption.

00:56:59   But yeah, you've confirmed that.

00:57:02   Right.

00:57:02   I have confirmed that the H is for headphones.

00:57:05   Somebody speculated-- another good guess

00:57:08   was that the H was for Hey Siri.

00:57:10   - Okay.

00:57:11   - Which I guess I always try not to say on the show,

00:57:14   so sorry.

00:57:14   (laughing)

00:57:16   There's my iPad.

00:57:17   - Lighting up.

00:57:19   - Yeah, Hey Dingus.

00:57:20   Which is a good guess, but it's not, it's for headphones.

00:57:24   And they get, you know,

00:57:26   supposedly they have longer talk time.

00:57:28   Talk time was always sort of the,

00:57:31   it seems like that microphone really drains the battery.

00:57:34   - But the nice thing about the,

00:57:35   so there's two things here,

00:57:37   but the nice thing about the talk time,

00:57:38   even when it was, I think it was two hours

00:57:40   and now it's three hours, is that right?

00:57:42   - Something like that.

00:57:43   - Well, but the thing is when you're using it as a headset,

00:57:45   it's easy enough to just use one.

00:57:48   - Yes.

00:57:49   - Because they both have a microphone

00:57:50   and obviously you won't hear out of both ears,

00:57:52   you won't hear your conversation,

00:57:53   but the person on the other end won't really know

00:57:56   that you only are using one at a time.

00:57:58   So even if you have a long phone conversation,

00:58:00   it's possible to swap those.

00:58:02   Whereas if you're listening to music,

00:58:03   you really probably want both those headphones in your ears.

00:58:06   Yeah. But the thing that I noticed with this was that none of the other battery life was

00:58:11   any better.

00:58:12   No. It doesn't seem like it. It seems like, you know, or at least, I mean, if it is better,

00:58:17   they're not…

00:58:18   They're not touting it as better. Yeah.

00:58:19   Right. Right. Yeah. And it's funny that they're not calling them AirPods 2. They're

00:58:23   just sort of… It's sort of a quiet announcement. They're just sort of, you know, "Hey,

00:58:28   we've refreshed them," you know, even though it seems like it is an all-new chip.

00:58:32   now they have the optional wireless charging case, which is what is extra 40 extra bucks

00:58:39   for it. So yeah, I use a wireless charging pad for my phone at night. It's easy to just

00:58:46   toss down on. But I don't think I'd pay the extra 40 bucks for that case.

00:58:51   I, it's a close call for me because it's like, I, I kind of, I'd like to have the functionality,

00:58:58   40 bucks is quite a lot for

00:59:00   You know something you certainly don't need

00:59:03   Yeah, and they charge so fast right like the nice thing about you know like your phone

00:59:09   Typically at the end of the day my phone at least is always under 50%

00:59:13   So it needs a you know a lot of charge and so overnight

00:59:17   Yeah, just put it on the bedside pad and fall asleep, and then assume. It'll be full when you wake up

00:59:23   It's fine

00:59:23   But with the AirPods, it really is true that if I feel like they're low, I can just plug

00:59:29   them into a lightning cable, and a couple minutes later, they're 100%.

00:59:32   Right, right.

00:59:33   So if it were $10 more, I'd say, "Yeah, sure, I'll buy it just in case I ever want that."

00:59:38   But they've managed to find a price point where, like you said, I'm sort of on the fence

00:59:42   about it.

00:59:43   And I don't think I'd buy it, but maybe I'd convince myself that I should get it.

00:59:47   And I don't know, they seem to have some science there with those prices, I think.

00:59:52   The other thing that is nice is that the case is available by itself for $80.

00:59:59   I'm trying to train myself to round that.

01:00:03   You're rounding up on the 9s?

01:00:05   On the 99, like, you know, $49.99 is $50.

01:00:09   $49, I'm okay with calling that $49, but whatever.

01:00:14   Alright.

01:00:15   Well, it's $79.

01:00:16   Right, right.

01:00:17   AKA $80.

01:00:18   But you can buy it as a standalone case and it is it's compatible with the original AirPods

01:00:24   So if you have existing AirPods and you really want that case you can

01:00:28   Spend 80 bucks to get the case and it'll work with your AirPods

01:00:31   So it seems very nice that was interesting

01:00:33   But then going back to what we were talking about with battery life if you've had those AirPods already for a year or two

01:00:39   You may well be better served just getting a whole new pair

01:00:42   like I

01:00:45   You're you're describing your AirPods is not having great battery life. It'd be pretty foolish for you to just buy the case at this point

01:00:51   Yeah, but on the other hand, I'm loyal like I feel like these are my AirPods

01:00:55   You know, I mean like I you know, I mean like I'm not gonna ditch them just cuz they're old, you know

01:00:58   You know, you don't want to be sticking new things in your ears. I

01:01:01   Don't know it's I

01:01:04   Don't know. I feel like I have a sense of loyalty to them like with the phones

01:01:10   I don't you know as soon as the new phone comes out. I'm like this old phone is garbage. Eric put it on shelf

01:01:14   But with my AirPods, I feel like they're, you know, we've been places together.

01:01:20   I'm not going to abandon them just because the battery life is sunk.

01:01:24   You know, it's not bad.

01:01:25   My battery life isn't terrible.

01:01:26   That's the other thing.

01:01:27   Well, but it's not, you know, it's, if you know it's going down, you know,

01:01:30   it's getting worse over time.

01:01:31   Right.

01:01:32   The other thing too is, is to charge them overnight, you really kind of need the air

01:01:41   power.

01:01:41   Which doesn't appear to exist at all.

01:01:44   Right, because my at least I have a couple of these Qi compatible phone chargers.

01:01:50   And they're all small enough. They only hold a phone, right?

01:01:53   They only hold a phone. There's no there is no room on any of the ones that I own for a second device,

01:01:59   even just a tiny little AirPods case.

01:02:01   Right, and not only I think the way that they're built, they could only charge one device,

01:02:07   even if there were physically, you know, space to drop the case on there,

01:02:11   It still wouldn't work because they can only charge one device at a time. I think right there's some kind of communication, you know handshake

01:02:18   It's like hey, I'm a charging pad and your device is like I'm a device that wants to charge on you

01:02:23   And then they're like, you know, nice to meet you. Here's some power

01:02:26   But that's it, you know, I like you said I don't think you could do another one

01:02:30   It's like they only have one hand for handshaking. So we were we were talking about this as far as

01:02:35   Where is the airpower Matt now now that they have finally shipped this?

01:02:40   Qi compatible wireless charging case

01:02:42   And I don't think we have a very good answer here, right?

01:02:46   No, the Wall Street Journal just reported this week that it is entering production and

01:02:52   there have been a whole bunch of people that found stuff in the

01:02:55   iOS 10.12. I'm sorry 12.2 beta that there was indication the indication that it's coming

01:03:02   There have been a few images found on like for an Apple websites like Apple Australia or whatever

01:03:09   But it's it's very strange that on Wednesday. They say here's the new air pods with a wireless charging case and

01:03:15   Obviously the obvious question is well, what do I charge these with?

01:03:19   They say G. Yeah, right, right

01:03:23   I mean I can charge it on a mat that I already have maybe but

01:03:25   You remember when you told me a year and a year and a half ago

01:03:30   When did they announce it was it was fall of 2017, right? Yeah a year and a half 18 months ago wolf

01:03:36   This is really late. And they did say at the time it would be later that year. So it's, you know,

01:03:44   maybe we should only, you know, the clock should only start from December of 2017.

01:03:48   Did they I thought no, no, they said 20. They said it was coming 2018. Right?

01:03:52   No, no. Originally, they said it was coming later in that year. Really? It was it. Yeah,

01:03:58   it was it was definitely supposedly, at first it was coming in 2017. It was it was a lot like,

01:04:06   The air pods were the year prior where they announced him along with the phone

01:04:11   And they came out two or three months later right at the end of December, right?

01:04:14   That was like right before Christmas as I recall. I remember I got him on like December 21st. I ordered him

01:04:20   I think right it was it was cutting it as close as theoretically possible to the holidays, right?

01:04:25   All right, well hold on I got a fact-check you here because

01:04:30   the Apple PR from September of 2017

01:04:34   Says coming next year on the airpower. Oh

01:04:36   Maybe I'm wrong. All right, we we it says quick coming in 2018

01:04:42   That's all it said which that's in the actual press release from September of 2017

01:04:47   I love well, I'm glad you corrected me so I don't have to listen to people

01:04:51   Well, but so so when do we count it from because if you say in September of 2017 in 2018, this will be coming

01:04:58   Obviously, it's at least at this point three months late

01:05:02   But realistically you figure before Christmas of that year and maybe halfway through that year

01:05:07   And so yeah in my mind this should have been here almost a year ago at least

01:05:12   And and as we said doesn't still doesn't exist and and so interesting that it's potentially in production

01:05:19   But then what's their strategy as far as announcing this goes? I?

01:05:22   Can only assume it'll be the quietest release

01:05:29   ever. Like I don't even know.

01:05:31   It'll just show up in the store. There won't even be a press release.

01:05:33   Right. Will there even be an article in Newsroom?

01:05:36   I guess they have to put an article in Newsroom.

01:05:39   But whose name? Will Phil Schiller have a quote that says, you know,

01:05:42   because like most of the stuff this week has a quote from Phil Schiller

01:05:45   saying how great the new iPads are or how fast the new iMacs are.

01:05:50   Like is anybody going to want to put their name on this?

01:05:53   AirPower. Press release. I don't know.

01:05:56   It's it is a damn curious thing. I mean the whole thing is strange because

01:06:02   Why did they announce this at all in?

01:06:06   2017 because when they when that event happened that was the first wireless charging phones qi charging phones

01:06:12   iPhones and they gave you a phone and they gave you what like a

01:06:17   Belkin charging pad, right? Yeah, there were two that they half of the reviewers got a white one from Belkin

01:06:25   which I did and then the other half got a

01:06:28   What brand was it Mophie did I want to say it was a Mophie I remember I think it's a Mophie and

01:06:34   I think it's the one I actually have it my dad

01:06:36   I actually paid for it to get it because I didn't like the I didn't like the Belkin one at all

01:06:41   huh if the Belkin one had like a

01:06:43   Really is a really ugly plug that goes in the socket, you know the electrical socket. It's a really ugly plug and

01:06:50   It just seemed way too finicky in terms of getting the phone

01:06:54   perfectly positioned and oh and the light was driving me nuts it has like a

01:06:58   bright green light that faces up as it's charging you yeah so you put it on your

01:07:04   bed and you've got like this weird green light whereas the mophie has a very

01:07:08   subtle off-white light that points down towards the table or whatever it's

01:07:14   sitting on which is exactly what I want I want it you know I like to see that

01:07:18   light because then I know the phone is on it properly but it is so subtle that

01:07:23   it doesn't you know distract when you're trying to sleep. So now does that one stay on as it's

01:07:28   charging though? Yes. Okay because I got I don't know I got like a $20 one on Amazon and the

01:07:33   feature that it has it's a subtle light like you're describing you put the phone on it it lights up

01:07:38   and then over 10 seconds it fades down which is it's perfect for the inside yeah. Right all you

01:07:45   want is you want you just want that light to just like note that it's working it's charging all right

01:07:50   Yeah, so they did give us charging. So they could have a different charging pad.

01:07:54   The airpower was not going to exist for or be available for sale for at least

01:07:59   three months at that point. But they did have them. They did have them backstage,

01:08:04   like when I had my briefing to get, you know, the little press briefing where I got the

01:08:09   what were the iPhones of that time? I guess it was the the 10 s or no, the 10. Yeah, so I got the

01:08:19   the iPhone 10 in in the room they had you know they always have every

01:08:24   everything that's new set up so you can see it you know pretty you know just just

01:08:29   see everything all that they have I just all the new cases and everything they

01:08:33   had an air power set up and I tried it you know like I even you know took a

01:08:39   phone off put it back on it was you know there was a functioning prototype of the

01:08:43   air power there that I could play with or they just shoved a mophie one inside

01:08:46   of a…

01:08:47   No, because I remember it because they had it set up where it had a watch on it too.

01:08:52   I think what I did… because my phone at the time wouldn't have been Qi charging.

01:08:58   Your personal phone wouldn't have been, yeah.

01:09:00   No, but I think I had my Apple watch on and I took it off and put it on and it charged

01:09:05   and everything worked.

01:09:07   It was nice.

01:09:08   So, I mean, I guess they obviously thought this was going to be done sooner than it was,

01:09:14   but probably much sooner than it was.

01:09:16   But it still to me does not make sense why they bothered to pre-announce it, because

01:09:20   this is not something people were clamoring for.

01:09:24   And now they look foolish 16 months, 18 months on, where it still is not available.

01:09:31   Yeah, if they had just kept their mouths shut about it and hadn't pre-announced it, we would

01:09:36   have all just been, "Well, I don't know why Apple doesn't make a first party charging

01:09:40   that."

01:09:41   But, you know, whatever.

01:09:42   I'll get one of the other ones.

01:09:43   dude. You know, I mean, how many key chargers if you search on

01:09:46   Amazon, there's like 500. Well, and even beyond that there are

01:09:50   now ones that will do a phone and a watch and lightning or an

01:09:56   AirPods case rather. So there there are there are alternatives

01:10:01   to the air power already. If you really feel that's the other

01:10:06   thing too is. So digit times there's a story on Mac rumors

01:10:10   today that Digitimes is reporting that the journal says they're in high production. Digitimes

01:10:16   says they will be made available in quote "late March." And so as we record, it's already

01:10:21   March 22nd. The event is the 25th on Monday. So presumably that means if Digitimes is correct,

01:10:28   that's next week. But if Digitimes is correct, it's a big if. I have a friend texted me right

01:10:36   before we started recording. A friend at Apple texted me and said, "More and more I see

01:10:43   reports from Digitimes." And I think, "I hope that's true, but I know it's not."

01:10:47   I wish that were true.

01:10:49   Yeah, I wish it were true. And this isn't somebody who knows whether the AirPower is

01:10:53   shipping or not. They want it to ship and they're disappointed because they feel like

01:10:58   Digitimes saying it's going to ship means it won't.

01:11:02   Well, here's the big question is how much is the thing going to cost because most of

01:11:06   these third party ones are relatively cheap. They've and they've really come down in price

01:11:10   over the last year. Like, how ridiculous is it going to be if this thing is like 100 bucks?

01:11:17   Well, I think I think 100 might be viable. I think over the net over that will be Yeah,

01:11:23   just not not at all in line with the market. Right. I mean, you know, the backstory on

01:11:29   this is that they faced engineering problems with these multiple coils to support multiple devices.

01:11:34   And you know, that, you know, you can't have these pads get hot, they can't, you know,

01:11:39   catching fire is bad. You know, and presumably, you know, you say, why did they pre announce

01:11:45   presumably, but I guess the backstory is somebody, you know, whoever makes that decision, whether it's

01:11:51   Phil Schiller, or Tim Cook, or some combination of the, you know, executives voting, okay, let's

01:11:58   announce it or let's not not announce it. Somebody in engineering on airpower obviously convinced

01:12:03   them. Okay, we haven't solved all the problems yet. But we've got it right. You know, like, it's,

01:12:09   it's, you know, sometimes you just, you know, like, when you're doing a math problem, and it's

01:12:13   like, you don't have the answer yet. But you know, you, you know, you know how to get the answer.

01:12:18   And somehow they convinced the decision makers. We're not done yet. But we've got it. And they

01:12:25   They obviously did somebody was wrong. Well, I mean, that's the thing. Like I don't fault engineering for running into issues with this

01:12:31   I don't I don't know enough about the air power itself. But like you said there's there's all sorts of issues with

01:12:36   Fires and and and having enough energy to charge multiple devices and and making it work

01:12:42   But I certainly can question the marketing decision to say hey this thing is coming when no one no one asked for it

01:12:49   And no one would bat an eye if they had never announced this

01:12:52   so I think instead they wind up obviously with with some egg on their face and

01:12:56   it'll be very interesting to me if this does ship next week because

01:13:00   Why not do it this week if they're doing this week of hardware?

01:13:05   And presumably they won't do it at the event itself if it really will be a no hardware event

01:13:11   You know, there's no way they're gonna do it on stage. There's I mean

01:13:14   There's just no way no

01:13:19   stage this thing that is months or years late and yeah right and then the only

01:13:24   thing you would be able to demo are the things they demoed a year and a half

01:13:27   ago right there's nothing done right the demo is already done so you know the

01:13:33   best you can hope for is a press release I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they

01:13:37   do it alongside the air pods you know make maybe when reviewers get these new

01:13:41   air pods they'll get an air power to next week oh that's an interesting idea

01:13:45   Yeah

01:13:47   Because a sort of oh and by the way, this is ready - yeah, that's my guess is that it'll be this is ready - but they

01:13:55   Just didn't want to talk about they wanted nothing but good good stories about Apple this week

01:14:00   Because the final ease will be justified as much as I get all these publications

01:14:06   Guff over the use of finally in headlines, you know when airpower does ship or if if it should

01:14:14   Find the finally's will be completely justified

01:14:17   That's why it's worth complaining about the misuse of finally because then when there actually is a good finally

01:14:25   It take you know takes away from that. Yeah, absolutely takes away from

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01:17:09   47 is the one they recommend. I love the idea of a podcast sponsoring a podcast.

01:17:16   That certainly makes sense to me. But I'm interested by starting at Episode 47. That's

01:17:22   not advice you usually hear when sometimes maybe skip the first season or something.

01:17:27   But 47 is very precise.

01:17:29   Right? It would be like if you told somebody, "You know what? You never watch The Sopranos?

01:17:34   Oh my god, you gotta watch that episode."

01:17:37   Season 3, episode 7.

01:17:39   Season 7. Yeah. That would be terrible. Oh my god. Well, podcasts are very different

01:17:46   than serial drama. So how about the... we'll go backwards here. We can talk about the new

01:17:54   iPad. I've been using the iPad Mini all week. So they updated the iPad Air and Mini. They now have

01:18:03   the A12 system on a chip. They both have True Tone displays, laminated displays, which is the

01:18:09   physical process that puts the pixels closer to the surface. Pretty much everything state of the

01:18:18   art with the displays with the lack of, the only thing missing really is ProMotion, which is Apple's

01:18:23   brand name for having 120 hertz refresh rate instead of 60 hertz, which of all the things

01:18:31   that the iPad Pro has on their display would be my pick as if you had to leave one off.

01:18:38   That's what I would say.

01:18:39   The least important of the features on the chip.

01:18:41   It is nice. I can kind of tell side by side, but when you're actually using it,

01:18:45   you don't really see it. Whereas True Tone has been, for me, really painful when I go

01:18:50   back to using devices that don't have it.

01:18:52   Like I've really gotten used to True Tone.

01:18:54   And when you have one, like your phone with it,

01:18:57   and then it's like nighttime and you're looking at it,

01:18:59   like an iPad that doesn't have True Tone,

01:19:03   it just looks so wrong to me.

01:19:05   What are your thoughts on it?

01:19:06   What do you use?

01:19:07   I don't even know if you use an iPad.

01:19:09   - Well, it's interesting.

01:19:10   I read your review of them and I think,

01:19:13   I don't wanna misquote you or anything,

01:19:14   but basically you said,

01:19:15   if you had to pick an iPad and just from scratch,

01:19:19   the new mini would be your iPad, right?

01:19:21   - Yeah.

01:19:22   - You've got an iPad Pro that you're using

01:19:24   and so this won't necessarily replace that,

01:19:26   but just picking from starting from Go,

01:19:30   you'd start with the mini.

01:19:31   I've got a bunch of test devices.

01:19:34   I've got an old, I think I've got the first iPad

01:19:37   that had retina, which I think was the iPad 3.

01:19:40   That's ancient at this point,

01:19:41   but it's still useful for some testing.

01:19:43   And I've got an iPad mini that I use basically at random.

01:19:48   During the baseball season, I use it to watch baseball games

01:19:51   if I'm out on the deck or something.

01:19:54   But so day to day, my iPad sits,

01:19:57   I'm looking at it in a cabinet where it's behind a door

01:20:00   'cause I don't use it.

01:20:02   So I read this review and I said,

01:20:04   "Okay, that sounds really nice."

01:20:05   And I also like the mini size that's been the iPad

01:20:09   that I got the most use out of,

01:20:11   but I don't have personally any need to purchase it

01:20:14   because I just don't use the device frequently enough

01:20:17   that I should upgrade what I already have.

01:20:20   - Yeah, I'm only buy an iPad once every couple of years

01:20:27   person because I just don't use it enough.

01:20:31   And what I do use it for is so,

01:20:33   I don't need like the latest chip.

01:20:36   - The top of the line, right, exactly.

01:20:38   - Right.

01:20:38   And personally, me personally,

01:20:42   without going on long digression about my eyesight,

01:20:45   The other problem I have with the Mini is whether it's big enough.

01:20:49   And trying to make a very long story short, for like two years

01:20:53   I needed reading glasses.

01:20:56   And it's very strange, because usually once you need glasses--

01:20:59   You're done.

01:20:59   Your eyes don't get better.

01:21:01   But my right eye has actually gotten worse.

01:21:05   And because it's gotten worse at distance,

01:21:08   it's actually gotten better up close.

01:21:10   And so I've got like this-- I forget what they call it-- but it's a strategy.

01:21:14   Even if you have good eyes, if you have contact lenses,

01:21:17   when you get older and you need reading glasses,

01:21:19   some people will get a contact lens in the one eye

01:21:23   that is for distance and the other eye for up close.

01:21:26   And you're, you know, at first it's weird, they say,

01:21:29   and then your brain sort of works it out.

01:21:31   And all of a sudden, you know, it just works.

01:21:33   I've sort of stumbled my way into that strategy

01:21:36   where my left eye is, you know,

01:21:39   sees 20/20 for distance and my right eye does not,

01:21:42   but it can see up close without reading glasses now.

01:21:45   So like if I had reviewed this iPad Mini a year ago,

01:21:50   the same device, I really would have--

01:21:52   - It would have been too small.

01:21:53   - --needed reading glasses to use.

01:21:53   It would have been too small

01:21:54   and I would have needed reading glasses.

01:21:57   But I sort of needed the reading glasses

01:21:58   even with the bigger iPad.

01:21:59   But now in 2019, my eyes have changed

01:22:03   and now I can read the Mini again without reading glasses.

01:22:07   I really, I used the heck out of it all week.

01:22:10   That's what I try to always do when I do these reviews.

01:22:13   But will that change?

01:22:14   The older I get, the more likely,

01:22:17   it's almost certain I'm gonna need reading glasses again.

01:22:19   And having a bigger iPad where,

01:22:22   one of the interesting things about

01:22:26   what they've always done with the Mini

01:22:27   is it's pixel for pixel the same as a bigger iPhone or iPad.

01:22:31   They just shrink the pixels

01:22:32   and there's more of them per inch.

01:22:34   It's the same interface, but everything is smaller.

01:22:38   And so as a mid-forties person rocketing towards needing reading glasses permanently, the bigger iPad size is more readable to me.

01:22:46   So that's just a personal thing.

01:22:47   But if like five years ago when my eyes were a lot younger and I didn't need reading glasses, the mini would be my iPad for sure.

01:22:54   But now let me ask you, do you read much on the phone?

01:22:57   I do.

01:22:59   I read a lot on the phone.

01:23:00   Because the phone's smaller, right?

01:23:01   I mean, there's everything on there is smaller.

01:23:04   So how is that better than,

01:23:06   how is the mini potentially too small and the phone isn't?

01:23:09   - Just because it's,

01:23:12   when I switched back to the bigger, my 11 inch iPad Pro,

01:23:15   it's just, my eyes just feel more relaxed.

01:23:16   - I see, it's just the comparison between the two iPads.

01:23:19   - Right, right.

01:23:20   I will say this, people have been saying for years,

01:23:23   is part of the reason the lack of,

01:23:27   I mean, I think it was three and a half years

01:23:29   between iPad mini updates,

01:23:30   and they've never really quite been on like a,

01:23:34   you know, it's obviously the odd iPad out.

01:23:39   - Right, they're not concerned with making it

01:23:41   the top of the line iPad.

01:23:43   - Right, and they're not concerned

01:23:44   with updating it every year, et cetera.

01:23:47   But, you know, and so people wonder,

01:23:49   is the iPad, you know, once it goes two, three years

01:23:52   without an update, people who are iPad mini fans

01:23:55   start to worry reasonably so that maybe, you know,

01:23:58   this is it, they're not gonna update it again.

01:24:00   Um, and part of the thinking behind that is, Hey, phones have gotten so big, you

01:24:07   know, has the, do people who like an iPad mini type thing is, is something like an

01:24:12   iPhone tennis max, the, the reason that they don't need doesn't yeah.

01:24:18   And I would, I find the iPad to be such a different interface and experience.

01:24:23   And it's, even though the mini is obviously the closest iPad to a big

01:24:28   phone size, it's so much bigger.

01:24:30   Right.

01:24:30   Right. There's no possible way that you could make a phone that big. You could not call an eight inch diagonal screen a phone

01:24:37   It wouldn't fit in any pants, I don't even think it would fit in Craig Hockenberry's pants

01:24:43   Now it's just wondering I bet Samsung has a phone that's that big that they call a phone

01:24:48   I'm not saying you're wrong. I think they're wrong, but I think that someone out there is calling a device that big a phone

01:24:57   it is just more like, like I said in my review, it puts the pad on an iPad. It just feels like a

01:25:06   pad in a way that even a big phone doesn't. I think it's a really delightful size. I really

01:25:12   like it. I know it's not their most popular iPad because if it were, they'd update it more

01:25:17   frequently. But it's obviously popular enough because they're keeping it around for at least

01:25:20   another generation though. Yeah. It sort of makes me wish that they made two minis. If they made

01:25:28   this one, that could start at a $399 price. And if they also made an iPad Pro mini that had all of

01:25:35   the new stuff in the Pro, the edge to edge display, the pencil to support the better speakers. I mean,

01:25:42   I don't know if that might actually be a problem with the size, that speakers actually take up a

01:25:48   - There's a significant amount of space.

01:25:49   - Physical space.

01:25:50   - Well.

01:25:52   - In theory though, that would be great.

01:25:53   - Well, I mean, this is the same,

01:25:55   every year I feel the same way about the phone.

01:25:57   I want a top of the line phone that is smaller

01:26:00   than what they're putting out there.

01:26:02   And they do not want to make that apparently.

01:26:05   - No.

01:26:07   Well, I guess not.

01:26:07   I don't know.

01:26:09   That would have been another announcement this week.

01:26:10   - That's right.

01:26:12   - The iPhone.

01:26:13   - It might've just happened.

01:26:14   Should we check?

01:26:14   - Well, I know.

01:26:15   - While we're recording.

01:26:16   and make sure the iPhone SE 2 did not come out.

01:26:20   Well, so you mentioned the pencil.

01:26:22   I think it's worth touching on that briefly because as I said, this is a weird week.

01:26:28   And I think it's also really weird that this new, two new iPads use an old Apple pencil.

01:26:36   And you explained why and your explanation of why makes sense.

01:26:39   But I think it's very strange to walk into an Apple store, buy a brand new iPad.

01:26:44   I guess to the shelves now stock both pencils

01:26:48   They must right because the old pencil is still a current pencil

01:26:54   yeah, and there's and it's

01:26:57   It is it's unfortunate. I would say it is an unf and I certainly don't think they planned it this way

01:27:05   I think it's just sort of the way things worked out

01:27:08   you know, it there's just no way to get pencil to support on this older device without doing

01:27:16   Adding X Y & Z that all would have made it significantly more expensive right defeats the whole purpose

01:27:22   Right like a big part of this is that the new mini starts at $400 and the new iPad air starts at

01:27:30   $500

01:27:32   Which is a lot less money than the the 11 inch iPad pro just starts at $800

01:27:38   Um, it's, you know, it's, it's not a stretch to say the, you know, the

01:27:42   mini is literally half the price and the iPad air is almost only half the price.

01:27:46   I think, I think, I think unfortunate is definitely the right word, but, uh, I,

01:27:52   so I, I understand why it is this way, but at the same time, it's very strange

01:27:57   for Apple to be saying, here is a brand new device and use it not with the brand

01:28:02   new pencil that came out, what last fall, I think, uh, and if you have that pencil

01:28:07   that pencil for some other reason it won't it doesn't even work with it right no definitely

01:28:12   it does not work not only not only can it not charge it it does not even physically right on

01:28:16   the device right old well because you can't pair it right because it doesn't mean the only way

01:28:21   the only way to pair it is with the uh the inductive charging port on the new ipad pros

01:28:28   and the only way to pair the old pencil is through lightning like to pair it with a new ipad which is

01:28:34   really clever. Like I because I have an old pencil that I've had

01:28:38   for a long time with the lightning port and just plugged

01:28:40   it into the new iPad Mini. And as soon as I plugged it in, it

01:28:43   was like, Okay, now now I'm paired with this iPad. But you

01:28:46   can't do that with the new iPads because iPad pros because they

01:28:50   don't like lightning. Yeah. So that Yeah, there's there's

01:28:53   that's the other question people have is, hey, how come if they

01:28:57   moved to USB C, why didn't these move to USB C? And I think one

01:29:01   of the answers is the pencil.

01:29:03   Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. If it's needed to pair it and to sync up with that, yeah,

01:29:08   absolutely. And to charge it. Well, so it's very strange that-

01:29:12   If I mentioned it in my review, I probably should have. One of the nice little things I just should

01:29:16   add is the new iPad Mini comes with a 12-watt charger. And I believe, I don't remember what the

01:29:24   fourth generation Mini came with, but I think the fourth generation still came with the little

01:29:28   tiny phone size 5 watt charger. So at least they're giving you a nice charger with it now.

01:29:33   John "Slick" Baum: It came with the very smallest one? It didn't come with a slightly bigger 10

01:29:37   watt one? John "Slick" Baum; No, last I remember, I don't know if the fourth generation did,

01:29:42   but at least the third generation mini still came with the phone charger, the little 5 watt.

01:29:45   John "Slick" Baum; The little cube looking one. John "Slick" Baum; One that looks like a dice.

01:29:48   John "Slick" Baum; Yeah, right. Yeah. Huh, interesting. John "Slick" Baum; Can't believe

01:29:51   I just said a dice. John "Slick" Baum; What kind of gambler are you, John?

01:29:54   Oh, here's my thinking. I would like to imagine. It's all about cost cutting.

01:30:03   To make these minis and airs.

01:30:06   Right. So they didn't have to do a new industrial design. It's the same physical footprint as the

01:30:12   old iPad mini, and the iPad Air looks like an older Air. It doesn't have the edge-to-edge

01:30:18   display with the round corners, which is nicer, but also more expensive. It doesn't have that

01:30:24   inductive charging port for the new pencil, which again is more expensive.

01:30:28   Somebody told me after I published my first look at it that it's definitely

01:30:33   that that little charging thing is definitely fairly expensive.

01:30:36   Like it wasn't going to make the cut on a $400 device.

01:30:43   It doesn't have Face ID because Face ID is more expensive than Touch ID sensors.

01:30:49   So you know this that the other thing to get these prices down now you're stuck

01:30:53   with the old pencil. I will say, and one of my favorite things about reviewing Apple products,

01:31:00   my favorite things to do is use the new thing for a while, like a week or two, and then go back to

01:31:06   the old thing. Like go back to my, you know, if I get a brand new iPhone, use the new review unit

01:31:12   for a week or two weeks or something like that. And then go back to my personal one from a year

01:31:18   ago and see what I noticed. Is there anything slower, you know, and in the old, in the original

01:31:22   days like five, six, seven, eight years ago, it would always be like, I'd go back to my

01:31:28   year old iPhone and typing would always feel so slow.

01:31:31   Everything was just lower.

01:31:32   Yeah, it just felt, it was like, wow, this is unbelievable.

01:31:36   You notice that like you get used to the speed of the faster speed of a new thing and it

01:31:41   just becomes normal.

01:31:42   And then the way to really tell is to go back to the old thing.

01:31:45   So after having the new Apple Pencil with my iPad Pro since, what, October?

01:31:54   Going back to the old Pencil, it was really, eh.

01:31:57   It really, it feels a little, it almost feels like greasy in your hand.

01:32:00   Right, you mentioned that, and it's also round, so it just rolls everywhere.

01:32:05   Right, and it's weighted.

01:32:08   There's some kind of way that it's weighted so it supposedly stops rolling, and it's a

01:32:13   clever design and but everything that everybody ever complained about the

01:32:17   pencil it's all magnified once you're used to the newer right right and right

01:32:21   that the matte finish is definitely better so much better it just feels

01:32:27   better in every way the flat side is so much better right to stop rolling the

01:32:32   charging is obviously so much better it's certainly more graceful yeah I mean

01:32:37   it you know I've never been a hater of the hey stick it in the iPad it looks

01:32:43   silly sticking out but for 15 seconds right it literally needs 15 seconds to charge so

01:32:49   yeah you don't need to do it for all um likewise i'm not a hater of the the the magic mouse with

01:32:55   the lightning port on the belly right that you can't use while doing it because you don't have

01:33:01   to charge it for that long right i get it that it's it's not great but it would be such it would

01:33:06   The design doesn't have room for a lightning port on the outside.

01:33:12   But boy, that old pencil seems...

01:33:17   And the other thing is, man, those caps are so fiddly.

01:33:20   So my strategy with the old pencil was always, I don't even know where the actual cap cap is.

01:33:28   I think I lost it on a train at one point.

01:33:31   And yeah, that's what yeah now that I think about it

01:33:33   I was on an Amtrak train and it fell between the seats and I I like took out my the iPhone flashlight

01:33:39   And look down there and it was a nightmare. I didn't see it

01:33:43   If I saw it, I might have tried to fish it fish it out, but I looked down there and it was so gross

01:33:48   I was like I was like that cap is gone

01:33:51   but what I usually did is I kept the the

01:33:55   Female to female lightning thing on it as the cap so that I could charge it

01:34:00   Just by plugging it into like a lightning cable

01:34:04   Oh, I see and I just just I used that as a cap and but it going back to that like just having a cap

01:34:11   It's so fiddly it just feels like you're constantly at risk of losing this little tiny delicate thing, right?

01:34:16   And that's why I say that the pencil - is so obviously superior

01:34:22   That it's strange to me for them to ship a new product that only uses the pencil one

01:34:26   And again, we discussed why but it once once you've made these advances like touch ID is not so much worse than face ID

01:34:34   But the pencil one seems so much worse than the pencil -

01:34:38   Yeah, it really does and and so it is it is like the unfortunate aspect

01:34:43   I get why they've done this and it's great that they have pencil support at all because the iPad mini

01:34:48   didn't have pencil support until now, but

01:34:50   But it is an unfortunate situation.

01:34:55   I don't know how else to say it.

01:34:59   I think it would be interesting.

01:35:00   What I think is interesting is to imagine the alternate universe where Apple had decided

01:35:09   it was worthwhile to do the equivalent of a… for the iPad, do what they did with the

01:35:14   the iPhone XR, which is, okay, we're gonna make some sacrifices for cost to hit a significantly

01:35:22   lower price point, but let's move these iPads to the new world, right?

01:35:28   Because the new iPad Pros are clearly the equivalent of the iPhone X for iPad.

01:35:34   But they only did that in the second year.

01:35:38   So that's almost what the next...

01:35:40   Well, I guess these aren't updated every year, so that sort of flies in the face of that.

01:35:43   that's almost what the next iPad update should be. Yeah, maybe they will. Maybe next year,

01:35:49   there will be the equivalent of a, you know, the mid range iPad Air and iPad Mini will be updated.

01:35:55   But I don't really have faith that they're going to do a mini update in one year. Like after going

01:35:59   three and a half years, I feel like we're looking at like two or three years down the road. Right.

01:36:03   Now, I think I think that's probably right. But it's interesting to see what happens there. Yeah,

01:36:08   But I just think it would be so…

01:36:13   And I almost feel like the flip side too might have proved popular.

01:36:18   Where let's say the iPhone XR didn't exist and they went with an iPhone 9 that looked

01:36:25   like it still had touch ID.

01:36:28   Everything that these iPads have that still had a rectangular screen without the round

01:36:32   corners, still had touch ID, and maybe hit an even lower price point, but had the A12

01:36:38   processor and the new camera and stuff like that.

01:36:42   I've written about it and I think it's underappreciated that I still feel like there's an awful lot

01:36:47   of normal people out there who are not quite rational, but it's just a natural resistance

01:36:55   to not having a home button and touch ID.

01:36:57   To the newer phones, right? They're just sticking with whatever they whatever the style is they have yeah, right?

01:37:03   I really do feel that and because that's how people that's how regular people think they don't think oh, this is cool

01:37:09   I can't wait to relearn how I use my phone, right?

01:37:11   right they think oh my god, how about how would I use my phone without without a home button and

01:37:16   They think you know and it's a natural suspicion to think that I don't know this face

01:37:22   I'd you can't possibly work as well as touch ID. I love touch ID, you know

01:37:26   So right adding adding touch ID didn't really change anything

01:37:29   You could still use your phone exactly the same way you used to right

01:37:33   And then if you figured out touch ID you realized oh, this is much better, but yeah switching to face

01:37:37   ID is a big difference yeah, and it's it's the amazing aspect of

01:37:42   To me it was just brilliant of making the home button the touch ID sensor instead of writing on the back like a lot of

01:37:49   Android phones do

01:37:50   Because it totally you didn't have to buy into it at all like it could have been

01:37:56   a terrible experience. It could be like touch ID was just awful. And you'd be fine because

01:38:00   it still worked exactly like your phone, iPhone did before. Right, exactly. You just put your

01:38:05   passcode in and just click the button to make it make go.

01:38:09   All right, I'm broadcasting. Sorry, I'm recording from a MacBook and I can either have my microphone

01:38:17   or power. So we're on like a 90 minute clock right now just FYI. All right, let's keep

01:38:23   moving in. So while we're, we can, what else is on the agenda here? We got the new iMacs. I don't

01:38:30   really have much to say about it. I was gonna say there's, you have this note and it makes perfect

01:38:34   sense. They announced these, there's some speed bumps. Was there anything to them that is

01:38:40   extraordinary the way, you know, the iPads have been really updated? These are just incremental

01:38:46   updates to the iMac, right? It's a true speed bump in the traditional sense of the word where

01:38:50   the physical form factor is exactly the same, the displays are unchanged, but there's no reason to

01:38:58   update those displays. They're wonderful displays. 4K on the 21 inch and 5K on the bigger one.

01:39:06   Twenty-seven, yeah.

01:39:07   It's very hard to find PCs with 5K monitors, especially all in one design.

01:39:14   And the color is wonderful on them.

01:39:17   Everything's great about them.

01:39:19   You know, so they just, you know, they were just overdue.

01:39:22   I think they were up at like 600 days since the last update, which is,

01:39:25   that's my only complaint would be, I don't think it's unreasonable for Apple to

01:39:30   update things like the iMac once a year.

01:39:32   Do you think it should be, does that sound frequent enough or people, people think

01:39:40   that it should be more frequent or less frequent?

01:39:41   I think once a year is about right.

01:39:43   I think that they should update all of the Macs once a year.

01:39:47   Right.

01:39:48   As as so so this this is, you know, worth touching on.

01:39:52   Last fall, when they finally updated the mini and the air, it

01:39:56   had been for the mini, it had been literally years since an

01:40:00   update in the air had people thought the air was dead.

01:40:03   And and now suddenly, it's actually probably the best

01:40:06   laptop for the most number of people.

01:40:10   but I don't need that type of update every year.

01:40:13   This type of speed bump where you say,

01:40:15   hey, we're gonna charge the same price,

01:40:16   but you're gonna get more functionality out of it

01:40:19   than you would have from the version last year.

01:40:22   That's great.

01:40:23   And doesn't take, I don't wanna dictate Apple's time,

01:40:27   but takes a whole lot less time than a brand new design does.

01:40:30   - Right.

01:40:31   - And it seems like at least for a while,

01:40:33   up until last year,

01:40:34   they had sort of gotten away from

01:40:37   doing those updates frequently.

01:40:39   So, you know, this type of update I actually really like to see because they should do

01:40:44   this every year.

01:40:45   And the Mini that was updated last October, this October, hey, throw a slightly faster

01:40:50   chip in there and charge me the same price.

01:40:52   Yeah.

01:40:53   The Mini is now SSD only, right?

01:40:56   The Mac Mini?

01:40:57   Uh, yes.

01:40:58   So this is, I think the, is this the last spinning hard drive they're shipping?

01:41:04   Yeah.

01:41:05   Yeah.

01:41:06   Pro is SSD. The Mac Pro is ancient.

01:41:09   Well, forget the Mac Pro. We're not even counting that.

01:41:13   The iMac Pro is SSD only. These new iMacs are the last spinning disks. And hopefully

01:41:19   the last—this is the last generation where they will be. Because that's the big knock

01:41:24   on them.

01:41:25   That's got to be—I mean, the only reason for that is price.

01:41:28   The only reason is price. And, you know, it certainly is easier, you know, they didn't

01:41:33   re-architect them. They're not like a new system architecture. The iMac Pro truly is,

01:41:38   it's not just a name. It's not like they just made it dark aluminum and put the pro name on it.

01:41:44   It is truly an entirely different system architecture. It has an entirely different

01:41:49   set of chips. It uses Intel Xeon chips. It has an entirely different cooling system,

01:41:55   which is amazing. I know Stephen Hackett in particular had replaced a very nice iN iMac,

01:42:04   like the previous generation iMac, with an iMac Pro just because of fan noise. Because he does

01:42:10   a lot of video and I guess probably podcast audio stuff. Stuff made his fan run on the iMac, and on

01:42:16   the iMac Pro it doesn't. I don't own an iMac Pro, but I've seen Apple demo it and do really, really

01:42:24   stressful stuff and then you get behind it and you don't hear anything. It's truly an amazing thing.

01:42:29   These iMacs don't have that. And spinning disks, I mean, they suck. I mean, they're terrible. They're

01:42:36   unreliable. They're slow. But again, they're also cheap. And anybody who says these, I've seen it,

01:42:48   people argue, hey, these new iMacs should be SSD only. But if you're going to argue that,

01:42:53   that you also are implicitly arguing that the starting price

01:42:56   should be significantly higher.

01:42:59   Like you can't have both.

01:43:00   You can't, you can say your gut feeling is that for,

01:43:03   hey, for 1300 bucks, you should be able to get an SSD,

01:43:06   but you know, you're spending Tim Cook's money.

01:43:09   - Well, I'm looking at them right now.

01:43:11   They also all start with one terabyte drives.

01:43:15   So I mean, you could definitely put a smaller SSD in there.

01:43:18   The SSD cost goes up with the storage space, obviously.

01:43:23   So I don't know that everyone who's buying an iMac

01:43:26   needs a terabyte drive.

01:43:27   You could potentially put a 512 SSD

01:43:31   or even a 240, whatever, 240, 480 in there

01:43:35   and have these prices.

01:43:38   The other thing to note is that SSD prices

01:43:40   in the past like six to 12 months have crashed.

01:43:45   Flash memory prices have crashed.

01:43:47   So maybe this is an example, like you said,

01:43:50   this is probably, hopefully the last ones

01:43:52   that have a spinning hard drive.

01:43:53   And it's potentially something where

01:43:56   when they were looking to make these,

01:43:59   they said, all right, we can do this

01:44:00   and then re-engineer the back,

01:44:03   the internals of it to better support an SSD

01:44:06   now that they're cheaper.

01:44:07   - Yeah, I don't think that the iPad Pro

01:44:12   is going to trickle down.

01:44:14   Like I don't think they're ever gonna sell consumer iMacs

01:44:16   with Xeon chip architecture.

01:44:19   But obviously a lot of the stuff that the iMac Pro has

01:44:22   should be in the iMac eventually.

01:44:24   You know, and the other big thing is the T2

01:44:26   probably will be like the T3 or T4

01:44:28   by the time the iMacs get it.

01:44:31   But to have like that little iOS--

01:44:33   - Secondary chip in there.

01:44:34   - Secondary chipped and running all of the security

01:44:37   related features, maybe by the time the iMacs

01:44:40   get this next update, maybe there'll be face ID on the Mac.

01:44:44   - Oh yeah, could be.

01:44:45   - That would be cool.

01:44:46   And now obviously that would go through the T2 subsystem.

01:44:49   But who knows, maybe by the time the iMacs get a major thing, it won't really be a T2

01:44:54   subsystem, it'll just be an entirely iOS or ARM-based computer.

01:44:58   Like maybe the main processor will be Apple's ARM thing from the much-rumored,

01:45:03   you know, Apple doing its own chips for the Mac.

01:45:06   But the one thing I'm 99.9% sure is that Apple has never shipped an iOS computer

01:45:16   that that touches a spinning hard disk. So like, why doesn't the new iMac have a T2? I'm sure

01:45:26   there's other reasons hard to write but it's there's iOS doesn't have any support for spinning

01:45:31   hard drives and the T2 needs some kind of boot partition to boot up and need storage. So the iMac

01:45:37   Pro gets it because the iMac Pro is SSD only so we can have a T2 chip but our poor new iMac still

01:45:45   have to even if you get one that's SSD only still, you know,

01:45:48   has an architecture that supports spinning hard disks.

01:45:51   Do you ever think about spinning hard disks? They're kind of

01:45:56   crazy when you think about it.

01:45:57   Do you remember the original iPod had a spinning hard disk?

01:46:01   Yes, absolutely. For years, right?

01:46:04   I mean, a desktop computer having it. Okay, it sits there.

01:46:07   And yeah, it spins, but it's on its own. The iPod you would walk

01:46:11   with I ran with it,

01:46:13   Right. You run, you go work out at the gym, and you have a crazy spinning hard disk playing music all the time.

01:46:20   I mean, I always think of it, you're old enough, I'm, you're not really old enough, I'm just barely old enough, but you know, I recognize a record player when I see it.

01:46:29   And I always sort of think of a spinning hard disk as a obviously shrunk down record player.

01:46:34   And yeah, so to think that there's one of those inside of an iPod is insane.

01:46:39   And that the quote-unquote slow ones spin at 5,400 rotations per minute.

01:46:45   Like they're spinning at these crazy fast speeds reading ones and zeros.

01:46:50   With a tiny little needle.

01:46:52   Right. It's insane when you think about it. But I would have to think,

01:46:58   I really hope that these would be the last, by the time the IMAX get updated again,

01:47:02   and let's face it, probably 600 days. Maybe not. Although maybe. Maybe the thing is,

01:47:08   is that if Apple does a switch to ARM on the Mac,

01:47:10   maybe everything will get an update faster.

01:47:13   - Every year or so, yeah.

01:47:15   - Right.

01:47:15   That's one of my big hopes with the switch to ARM.

01:47:19   I think we'll get better battery life.

01:47:21   I have faith that their performance is gonna be excellent.

01:47:24   I mean, our phones already benchmark faster than MacBooks.

01:47:27   It's crazy.

01:47:28   - Right.

01:47:29   - But that it's, you know,

01:47:31   maybe it really is Intel's problems

01:47:33   hitting their roadmaps on a predictable schedule

01:47:36   that's keeping Apple from updating these things.

01:47:38   I mean, I was told off the record, but point blank,

01:47:41   that the reason the MacBook Air took so long

01:47:45   to get to this new thing was Intel.

01:47:49   For whatever reason, they didn't really have a chip

01:47:53   that Apple saw as suitable for this new Air design.

01:47:57   And that's why there is no CPU upgrade.

01:48:01   - On the Air itself?

01:48:02   - Right, there's no build to order

01:48:03   to get a faster chip or something.

01:48:05   Intel has one chip that Apple deems usable for the air,

01:48:09   and it took them a long time to get it out.

01:48:12   - I mean, I can see something there,

01:48:15   but at the same time, something like the Mini,

01:48:17   where they were selling the same computer for four years

01:48:20   with the same chip, there were faster chips in the interim.

01:48:24   They might not have been that much better,

01:48:26   but they were a little faster

01:48:27   and a little more energy efficient.

01:48:29   And it's not that hard to just slot in a new chip

01:48:33   and sell that as an upgrade

01:48:34   instead of charging the same price for four years

01:48:37   for a now four year old chip.

01:48:39   - Well, that's the other thing is when they,

01:48:41   I get the strategy, I totally get it,

01:48:44   but Apple considers these prices as like part of the brand

01:48:47   of the device, you know, that iMac is a 1299 starting point.

01:48:52   I mean, the Mac Pro is the most ridiculous one, right?

01:48:56   I mean, the Mac Pro is 10 years old at this point,

01:48:59   practically, and it's still at the same price

01:49:01   because they don't wanna lower the price

01:49:02   'cause when they do come out with new Mac Pros,

01:49:04   want those same prices higher price. Right. They don't want to say all of a sudden now the Mac Pro,

01:49:08   here's the new Mac Pro. It's amazing, but it's double the price because they were steadily

01:49:12   lowering the price over the years based on the reduction in components. I mean,

01:49:18   who knows what the profit margin is? Like if you're, if you had to buy a Mac Pro now,

01:49:23   if you're putting about 10% of the price value, right? Like if you depend on a Mac Pro

01:49:29   and you accidentally run it through the washing machine.

01:49:33   Sure.

01:49:35   And then putting it in a giant bag of rice doesn't bring it back to life and you need to replace it.

01:49:40   And so you're like, I know this is a bad time to buy one, but I need it. You're probably giving

01:49:46   Apple insane margins on a Mac Pro today. I mean, it's got to be crazy because it's.

01:49:52   I've heard that they don't sell a lot of them, but that is actually the majority of the company's

01:49:58   profit is just Mac Pros. They only sell a few but it's a $3,000 plus machine and

01:50:04   they make $3,000 on each one. I'm sure that the aluminum is probably the most

01:50:09   expensive part. It's just it's just like really just the case is the most

01:50:15   expensive thing. It's crazy. But hopefully that would be the point. I mean and you

01:50:20   know there like the iPhone is certainly I mean there's a the iPhone makes all

01:50:27   money. So of course, the iPhone is the one that's on the most rigorous schedule. But their chip team

01:50:31   year in, year out does incredibly impressive work. They've never had a bad year for the chips. There's

01:50:36   never been a year where this year's a... - Whatever is not that much better.

01:50:42   - Right. It's always, even when the phones themselves are like, "Ah, this one's really

01:50:46   just an S year," or whatever you want to say, the chips always show a nice improvement,

01:50:53   especially in recent years on the GPU front. So hopefully they could bring that to the Mac.

01:50:57   Well, and I also think there's a profit component there where obviously they're paying Intel for

01:51:04   these chips, and then they resell them. But if you're making the chips yourself,

01:51:08   it makes a lot more sense to say every year, "Hey, we've got a new chip, let's upgrade these Macs."

01:51:14   And there'll be a speed bump that we can charge for because we're making all the profit on that.

01:51:21   So yeah, I certainly have a similar hope if we if we switch to to

01:51:26   Their ARM processors that will see more Mac updates

01:51:29   yeah, and the other thing too and I think it's sort of a foreshadowing is that the the high-end iPads for years have had like

01:51:37   An X behind their name, you know, there's like the a 10x and whatever

01:51:41   But the a 12 X this year is so much more powerful and because it has it's more cores

01:51:47   It's not just slightly faster than the regular A12.

01:51:50   I just ran the benchmarks when I was benchmarking these iPads.

01:51:55   The multi-core stuff is insane.

01:51:59   I have total faith that that chip team, Johnny Cerucci's team, can walk and chew gum and

01:52:05   can design new chips every year for the incredibly power-conscious phone while at the same time

01:52:13   making incredibly fast ones that don't have to be so power conscious for a Mac laptop.

01:52:19   I mean, I would just take the A12X in a laptop.

01:52:23   Throw it in a laptop.

01:52:24   Yeah.

01:52:24   Yeah.

01:52:25   All right.

01:52:26   Let me take a break.

01:52:26   Last break.

01:52:27   Thank our last sponsor.

01:52:28   Our good friends, best friends, honestly, they sponsored the show so often.

01:52:32   I love them.

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01:54:10   I hear you typing. I hear your little MacBook clicking. I don't want to speculate too much

01:54:19   about next week's event. I mean, it'll be what it'll be, but it certainly sounds like there's

01:54:23   no hardware. And if there is hardware, it'd be shocking. At this point, yeah. Right. Because

01:54:29   what would it be? What's left? Here's my—the one thing I want to say is everybody is widely

01:54:33   acknowledged I mean there's a bunch of leaks because the news these people are

01:54:38   all it's not Apple that's leaking it's their partners but they're gonna do a

01:54:41   news subscription thing and so you you'll pay one fee maybe it's ten bucks

01:54:47   and you if you subscribe to Apple news you will get subscription content from a

01:54:52   whole bunch of publishers who currently have you know either everything's behind

01:54:57   a paywall or they have some paywall content you'll get it all supposedly the

01:55:02   New York Times and Washington Post are not in yet, but the Wall Street Journal is, which

01:55:07   is interesting. I forget how many subscriptions I have. I pay for the New York Times. I pay

01:55:13   for the Wall Street Journal. I pay for a couple of smaller things. But I also am a subscriber

01:55:18   to the Washington Post as well. I forget what I pay. Do you subscribe to the Wall Street

01:55:24   Journal?

01:55:25   I don't. The Post I know, I want to say, is either $2.99 or $3.99 a month because I have

01:55:30   that. And then I have Boston Globe, which I don't remember what it is, but the journal,

01:55:35   the journal is the one that I run into. There are often, not often, but there are often enough that

01:55:40   I notice it. Articles that I think, oh, I want to check that out. And then I hit their paywall.

01:55:44   And then I either give up on it, or I think there's a workaround where you can search Twitter

01:55:49   and get a link that works at least some of the time. But I, that's, that's the paywall that I

01:55:55   hit the most that I at least remember so that that's the most interesting one of

01:55:59   the possible candidates that are supposedly in this service if if it's 10

01:56:05   bucks a month it wouldn't take much for it to be worth easily worth 10 bucks a

01:56:10   month right if you you know three four right so this how much is the journal on

01:56:14   its own looks here like I don't know if this is for paper though like is this

01:56:21   I'm looking at their website says it's $15 a month and that's with the 60% off that's only good for the next 43

01:56:29   So, I don't know I don't know though if they're if they're trying to give me a paper subscription now

01:56:36   I don't you know the way these newspapers still want you to you know, try to trick you into getting this

01:56:40   Get a physical copy that goes right into your recycling bin

01:56:45   It's still my favorite. It's still my favorite story of all one of my all-time favorite. I'm old stories

01:56:51   I know I've told you this. I know I've told it on the podcast, but it must have been three or four

01:56:55   years ago. It must have been. But I was at Starbucks and I was waiting for a beverage to

01:57:02   be prepared. And there were two young women, college-aged, maybe 21, 22 years old, talking.

01:57:09   I believe it had the Sunday paper, but they had the Philadelphia Inquirer. And the one girl was

01:57:16   explaining to the other girl that they, you know, she really

01:57:21   was genuine, genuinely unfamiliar with the concept of a

01:57:24   newspaper. And, and she was saying, and they print this,

01:57:28   they do this every day. And she said, Yes, every single day. And

01:57:32   the other girl said, Why would they do that? I don't think you

01:57:36   have told me. I almost burst out laughing. Because on the one

01:57:42   hand, I do kind of feel like you, you're she's a bit of an

01:57:45   an idiot, right? I mean, there's how would you I mean, like you

01:57:48   said, record players, like, right, you should at least be

01:57:50   aware of this. She's she's also not wrong. Right? That's the

01:57:54   thing is it when you think about what is in a printed newspaper

01:57:58   every single day, 365 days a year, or 100, you know, some of

01:58:04   these papers have been around, you know, 100, 150 years. It's

01:58:07   insane. It is absolutely insane. They print out all of the news,

01:58:13   whether you want to read it or not. I, you know, but anyway,

01:58:18   these these publications still want you to get your dead tree

01:58:21   version. So I don't know.

01:58:22   Well, you do know you do know the reason why they want that,

01:58:26   right?

01:58:26   Because it boosts their circulation, and they boost

01:58:29   their ad sales, right? That they're still they're still

01:58:32   selling, you know, they still make a dangerous amount of their

01:58:35   money dangerous in terms of the long term health of right

01:58:38   things. Great word for it, right? They they're dangerously

01:58:42   dependent on print advertising and print advertising goes by circulation. And so environment be

01:58:48   damned, these publications are happy if you have a print subscription that you never use

01:58:54   if you just let the newspapers pile up on your porch.

01:58:59   I mean, something's got to lie in the birdcage, right?

01:59:02   My grandfather, my mom's dad, he died when I was in first grade. But I have very fond

01:59:07   memories of him. He was a very, very nice man, very kind. My little he was my little pop pop. He was

01:59:14   also, you know, the genes are there. He was also a bit eccentric. And one of his eccentricities was

01:59:21   he he didn't throw away his newspapers. He kept on God. He had like a his chair, there was pop pops

01:59:29   chair that was his, you know, his like Barca lounger. And behind his chair, he I guess, you

01:59:36   it wasn't like he kept them for years, but he'd had months of newspapers at a time. And he kept

01:59:41   them in mint condition. Like when he read the newspaper, he very carefully refolded it. And

01:59:47   when he was done with the paper of the day, you could have still sold it at the newsstand.

01:59:53   And so the stack of them was very neat. I guess his thinking was if he had thought of it,

02:00:01   you know, it was like his version of Google. Like, I read an article a couple of days ago.

02:00:06   Let me dig through this pile of newspapers.

02:00:10   The stacks were so neat. It's a very vivid memory, because you would think it would be a mess,

02:00:15   but it really looked like as neatly organized as like the stack of newspapers at a newsstand

02:00:22   to start a day, you know, where they're all the today's newspaper.

02:00:25   Right. Well, so there's two, it's not at all clear what's going to happen next week.

02:00:31   and i don't really like speculating on this stuff either but there's two different things that we're

02:00:35   talking about this would be a news service that potentially makes sense because there is no real

02:00:41   to my knowledge is there any there's no major service that says hey give us x amount of dollars

02:00:47   and you'll get access to all the news you could you could want from the journal the new york times

02:00:52   the post right now you really have to subscribe to the new york times you subscribe to the wall

02:00:57   street journal you subscribe to the washington post you give three different payments to three

02:01:01   different companies if you want all of the content. And infamously with the New York Times,

02:01:07   if you want to unsubscribe, you need to call them on the telephone, talk to a friendly operator

02:01:14   somewhere in Iowa or something like that. Infamously very difficult to unsubscribe from

02:01:20   the New York Times to get out of that. But so that service, if that service exists,

02:01:25   and let's just assume it does, that's at least interesting depending on the price and depending

02:01:29   on what different papers are included in there. The other one that's I think getting more publicity

02:01:37   is some sort of video movie tv service. And this is the one that I... you asked me about it before

02:01:46   the show and I basically said, "Eh, I don't care." Because, well, and for a reason. One,

02:01:55   Tell me how many subscription services for TV do you have right now?

02:01:58   Too many.

02:02:00   Right. I've got Netflix.

02:02:03   I've got Netflix.

02:02:04   I've got HBO through AT&T. So that's actually free-ish. It's paid, you know, indirectly.

02:02:10   We still have a cable subscription.

02:02:12   Okay, so you still have proper cable.

02:02:13   So I have proper cable.

02:02:15   I've switched to streaming cable, which saved me a bunch of money.

02:02:19   I've got Amazon Prime, which gives me Prime Video.

02:02:23   I do have that.

02:02:25   this year got hulu for they had like a 12 for 12 months deal it's the crummy ad version but i wanted

02:02:32   to test it out anyway so i have i have hulu and i pay for the i pay for the ad free version because

02:02:38   the good version their ads are horrible they really are uh so you've got so just hulu and

02:02:44   netflix are two services that are effectively the same thing yeah and that you're paying a

02:02:50   a monthly subscription fee for net-- sorry, Amazon on top of that, I view that as just

02:02:56   coming along for the ride with a Prime subscription.

02:02:59   But already having Netflix and Hulu, what is Apple going to do differently?

02:03:05   I think the only answer is, and the reason that I'm sort of annoyed by this whole thing

02:03:09   is that they're going to have different content.

02:03:12   And that, I mentioned that the thing that happened with music is that it doesn't matter

02:03:18   what music subscription service you subscribe to.

02:03:21   If you have Apple Music, you get all the music.

02:03:23   If you have Spotify, you get all the music.

02:03:26   You know, there's a few of them that are at least on par with one another.

02:03:30   And by and large, you don't need to go to a specific service to get a specific artist.

02:03:36   Tidal is sort of the exception there where they were trying to have exclusives and things

02:03:39   like that.

02:03:40   But I think a lot of that stuff is temporarily exclusive.

02:03:43   And then three months later, it shows up on Spotify and Apple Music.

02:03:47   now if you wanted if you said hey I want to have access to streaming all movies

02:03:51   you'd have to sign up for five or ten different services to get it yeah and

02:03:56   adding yet another service doesn't do anything no it makes the problem worse

02:04:01   well the rumor is that they are going to bundle it make it like a TV package you

02:04:07   know where they're gonna have a bunch of cable channels and you'll get regular

02:04:10   what we consider regular TV through this Apple TV subscription thing like but

02:04:16   But what if you don't need that?

02:04:18   What if you just want to watch Apple's original shows?

02:04:20   Do you have to pay and get, as somebody who still subscribes to cable, or you who already

02:04:26   has your...

02:04:27   YouTube TV.

02:04:28   YouTube TV.

02:04:29   Or if you have the Sony one, which looks very good.

02:04:32   If you already have the Sony one, is your only option to give Apple 10 bucks a month

02:04:37   or $15 a month or whatever it's going to cost to get a whole bunch of channels you already

02:04:42   have some other way?

02:04:43   all you really want to do is watch the original shows that Apple's making.

02:04:47   I don't know.

02:04:47   To me, that's the most interesting thing that they'll announce next week.

02:04:51   It's not necessarily what, but just how much, how are they going to charge for this?

02:04:54   Right.

02:04:55   And, and yeah, I think there's, there's definitely questions there that I I'll

02:05:01   be interested to see answered, but I don't see any way in which this will be sort of

02:05:07   what Apple Music was, or even the iTunes Music Store was to music, where this is

02:05:13   the one solution you need. Right. And that's it. Right. And that's frustrating to me because

02:05:18   I don't need to pay for yet another subscription. I would like to pay more money even for one

02:05:23   subscription and just be done with it. And just have everything. Just give me everything.

02:05:28   I don't think we're going to get that. Probably not. Last but not least, I want to talk a

02:05:38   little bit about Mac software. I don't know if you know, do you know anything about the

02:05:42   indie Mac software market?

02:05:43   I have a passing knowledge of it. Yeah.

02:05:47   There was an article that you I actually saw it. But I didn't read it either. But then

02:05:51   I read it. There's a profile of longtime Apple executive Sean Pruden, who maybe

02:05:58   I wasn't familiar with her before.

02:06:00   Well, she co hosted the Apple design awards for years, right? Okay. Okay. That's probably

02:06:07   where she's best known outside the company. It's an interesting profile. She's been at

02:06:11   Apple for 30 years. But there's a part of the article that caught your attention and

02:06:18   caught mine too. I don't know if I want to paraphrase or if I should just read it.

02:06:23   I guess I should just read it.

02:06:25   I'm trying to find it in the article, but now I don't know.

02:06:28   Yeah. And she works for the App Store. But here's the quote. She says, "I don't know

02:06:36   if you remember, but the way you used to buy software was in a box at a store. There was

02:06:40   no way you could come up with an idea for an app and create it and put it in a shiny

02:06:44   disk and sell it yourself. It just wasn't going to happen. So the app store really democratized

02:06:49   software. And it has democratized software, but there's an entire still thriving business.

02:07:00   almost like she's forgetting something and I can't quite put my finger on it

02:07:05   there's it's like you went from retail stores selling software and then and

02:07:10   then the App Store and it's was that was there something called the web in

02:07:15   between there John so when when did when was rogue amoeba started I believe it's

02:07:22   the same year as daring fireball 2002 2002 and you guys have never put

02:07:26   software on in a box have you? We have never needed to. Early on there were a couple bundles

02:07:33   that other companies made that we put Audio Hijack in briefly but it was it was basically a

02:07:39   flirtation because growing up getting software in a box was something to aspire to maybe or you know

02:07:46   that's how you bought software as she said. But yeah so essentially no our software has for 16,

02:07:51   17 years, been sold online exclusively. You enter your credit card number, you download the software

02:07:58   from our website, and you get a license key in an email and you unlock it that way.

02:08:03   Again, I'm not slagging on the App Store. And certainly, it certainly made writing

02:08:12   software for phones a democratized thing prior to the iPhone. The idea that one person or a two

02:08:19   person team or something like that would write phone software was crazy. I mean, it was just

02:08:24   You had to go through the carriers, you had to be a big business to do it. That's 100% true.

02:08:28   Right. But in terms of software in general, especially for the Mac, and even for Windows,

02:08:33   just for what we call PCs, that democratization was the web.

02:08:39   The web did it. The web absolutely did it. And so we said 2002 for when our company started,

02:08:44   I was selling software online for about four years before that with other companies.

02:08:48   And we, you know, have talked to plenty of people about the mid

02:08:52   nineties, maybe even mid to late nineties is when you could start

02:08:55   having a web only piece of software that could make real money.

02:08:59   Right.

02:08:59   Enough money to support a business and support actual employees with

02:09:03   a real wage and stuff like that.

02:09:05   And that's a decade before the app store.

02:09:07   And it meant you didn't need to put anything physical in a store, physical

02:09:11   store.

02:09:11   And, uh, so yeah, to, to sort of skip over this and then, uh, I'm pretty

02:09:16   sure Phil Schiller was on the talk show, sorry, on ATP. Yeah. And I think he made a very similar

02:09:22   point that, you know, maybe as a talking point for them, obviously, that again, sort of skipped

02:09:26   over the idea that, hey, there was a way to do this after retail stores and before the

02:09:32   App Store.

02:09:33   It's, I get it, I do get that they want to promote the App Store, but it's such a huge

02:09:41   mission. It's just, I mean, and it's still going strong, right? I mean,

02:09:46   our stuff is almost all of it is exclusively sold directly from our website.

02:09:51   Right. And, you know, it's still a great way to run a business. I mean, we, you and I know a lot of

02:09:57   fellow, you know, indie Mac developers, you know, and we can do an entire two hour episode of the

02:10:04   show just on the App Store. But, you know, the App Store is what it is, but it's nowhere near as big,

02:10:09   important for the Mac as it is for the iPhone. And most of the

02:10:12   Indian developers I know, either aren't in that Mac App Store or

02:10:18   if they are, they sell apps that are also available.

02:10:22   Also available directly, right.

02:10:23   Right. And it avoids that 30% tax, it avoids the review

02:10:30   process. The sandboxing rule, certainly some of Roga Mipa's

02:10:36   apps are would be difficult to sandbox difficult is putting it very kindly yes

02:10:45   I'm not quite sure how audio hijack would work in a sandbox world other than

02:10:52   not at all that's about right yeah but you know and it just keeps you

02:10:58   independent it puts the independent you know the independent and independent

02:11:01   developer that you're not you know you're just everything you know you want

02:11:05   to do a software update. Here's the software update. Right. You know,

02:11:08   what can I can I use this as my my chance to show briefly, of

02:11:14   course, that that's exactly what I was going to segue to. So you

02:11:19   asked me to be on the show literally just yesterday. I

02:11:22   think you had a cancellation and I'm, I'm the fallback.

02:11:24   Moltz canceled. Oh, wait a minute. No, wait. I will I refuse

02:11:30   to be below molt but no it it was slightly unfortunate timing because

02:11:38   we're looking to push out a very widely focused broadly focused product brand

02:11:44   new product next week and so this morning I put up a teaser post on our

02:11:51   blog so if people are interested to see what our news is next week they should

02:11:55   check out macaudio.com and click over to our blog and they'll be able to

02:12:00   sign up to get information on this when it comes out next week. So we have a product that is

02:12:06   hopefully coming out next week that absolutely would not fit in the App Store and could not be

02:12:09   sandboxed, but should appeal to just about anybody doing anything with audio on their Mac, even

02:12:16   listening to Apple Music or Spotify. That's very clever of you. I realized when you said that

02:12:21   yesterday that timing-wise, it didn't really work out for you, but doing a teaser does.

02:12:26   No, I I we're not big on teasers, but I'll take the opportunity to do it once in a while. Yeah

02:12:32   Well, my thanks for you joining hey, what about you doing anything on June 4th

02:12:38   June 4th, there's some sort of show I think yeah, you're gonna announce it. I

02:12:45   I'm there for you, buddy. That's it. It's been a long time since you've been a regular guest on the show, right?

02:12:52   Maybe last year, but we we don't do it. We don't do it terribly regularly

02:12:56   Oh, how often how many times have you been the announcer for the talk show live at WWDC? Oh

02:13:01   I could look it up at least five maybe five or six because it goes back to the

02:13:07   The days in San Francisco mezzanine in San Francisco multiple years. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you've got that voice

02:13:14   You've got that announcing voice down pat and the face for it as well

02:13:19   Exactly.

02:13:20   No, so I don't have any tickets to announce.

02:13:22   I know people want it.

02:13:23   I will try to get them out soon.

02:13:25   I know that they sell out very quickly.

02:13:28   But you do have everything pinned down, right?

02:13:30   I do.

02:13:31   The talk show live will be Tuesday, June 4th at once again from the lovely California

02:13:38   Theater in San Jose.

02:13:40   Beautiful, beautiful theater.

02:13:42   Very excited about it.

02:13:43   Don't have any guests lined up yet.

02:13:46   working on that and I'll work on ticketing but stay tuned I'm not quite sure how to do it I know

02:13:51   it's I don't know if I don't know how to run a lottery it seems like that would be a fair way

02:13:55   to do it but but we'll see but anyway stay tuned save the date and I look forward to seeing you

02:14:02   there Paul well and and if your guest falls through there then it might just be you and

02:14:07   me talking on stage exactly right so you know keeps keeps literally be waiting in the wings so

02:14:16   He will.