The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► So what is the deal with Canadian Thanksgiving?

00:00:01 ◼   ► I always forget and I should know because they used to always talk about it on

00:00:05 ◼   ► the Letterman show because Paul Shaffer was Canadian and I should know this and

00:00:08 ◼   ► I don't unfortunately.

00:00:10 ◼   ► Yeah. We have it in October when you have Columbus day because it freezes here so

00:00:14 ◼   ► much earlier. So we had to,

00:00:15 ◼   ► and I think we actually had Thanksgiving before America.

00:00:18 ◼   ► So we had to get all that stuff done before it just froze here.

00:00:21 ◼   ► And then you have Columbus day and we have nothing.

00:00:25 ◼   ► We should have like Jacques Cartier day to get revenge for.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Yeah, and the Columbus Day thing is sort of turning into a, you know,

00:00:32 ◼   ► yeah.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Sort of a crap show.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Yeah, because you know, Columbus, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a mixed bag,

00:00:40 ◼   ► you know, historically what he did here in Philadelphia. It's still a big deal,

00:00:44 ◼   ► though, because we have a huge Italian community. Yeah, it's a big, big Italian

00:00:48 ◼   ► the South Philly is like a little Italy, little Italy type, you know, part of

00:00:54 ◼   ► So, you know, we even have, there's a street, we have Columbus Boulevard, big street. It's

00:01:01 ◼   ► funny because it's Delaware Avenue. It's a big street right by the Delaware River.

00:01:05 ◼   ► So it's right along the river. You can, you know, you look over to your side and you

00:01:09 ◼   ► see New Jersey. And then when they get, when Delaware Avenue gets to South Philly, it just

00:01:15 ◼   ► becomes Columbus Boulevard. It's very political.

00:01:20 ◼   ► But the weird thing about Canada is that we don't do Easter a month later when things

00:01:25 ◼   ► unfreeze finally.

00:01:26 ◼   ► We do it at the same time, and that just seems ill-advised.

00:01:28 ◼   ► I mean, Passover is fine because the Angel of Death is on its own schedule.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Nobody doesn't care about winter.

00:01:32 ◼   ► But Passover, that bunny should be under the snow for another month.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:01:37 ◼   ► And Amy's family is—on her dad's side is Greek, and then there's Greek Easter,

00:01:41 ◼   ► and that's different than regular Easter.

00:01:43 ◼   ► So we've got—

00:01:44 ◼   ► Yeah, Orthodox Christmas is different.

00:01:46 ◼   ► You would think if there's one thing the world could agree on, it's like a holiday

00:01:48 ◼   ► schedule.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Especially when they got to make it up.

00:01:51 ◼   ► I mean, that was the first.

00:01:52 ◼   ► - Right, but no.

00:01:54 ◼   ► - No.

00:01:55 ◼   ► - It is all over the place.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Oh man, I have got so much stuff to talk about.

00:01:59 ◼   ► - Awesome.

00:02:00 ◼   ► - But before we get to it, I assume,

00:02:03 ◼   ► I either know this for a fact or I would be shocked

00:02:06 ◼   ► if the answer is no, but you enjoy Lego, correct?

00:02:09 ◼   ► - Yes, absolutely.

00:02:11 ◼   ► - All right, I am not, by the way,

00:02:13 ◼   ► do you, are you a strict, number one,

00:02:16 ◼   ► do you capitalize it when you write it?

00:02:19 ◼   ► I hate that. I can't stand...

00:02:20 ◼   ► - I don't. I think their word mark is capital,

00:02:23 ◼   ► but I don't think capital is.

00:02:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, and well, at some point iOS started auto capping it.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Like I guess to, you know, cause that's what people do,

00:02:29 ◼   ► but it's not an acronym.

00:02:31 ◼   ► - So, yes.

00:02:32 ◼   ► - I don't get it.

00:02:33 ◼   ► I also, I like to say that I like to pluralize it as Legos.

00:02:36 ◼   ► And I know that there's some sticklers out there

00:02:39 ◼   ► who would say that they are Lego bricks, not Legos.

00:02:42 ◼   ► - This whole thing is like maths in England and math here,

00:02:45 ◼   ► but pants here and pants there.

00:02:46 ◼   ► You just, nobody can agree on this stuff.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Yeah, but I do enjoy the Legos. I've developed a terrible habit in recent years of half building

00:02:56 ◼   ► some models and then running out of time because I've got a trip or something. Something

00:03:01 ◼   ► interrupts it. It's not like I lose interest. It's a big thing. So I've got a half-built

00:03:06 ◼   ► Death Star from literally like six years ago. I don't even know where. Because we moved.

00:03:11 ◼   ► I don't even know where it is. I remember when we moved.

00:03:18 ◼   ► Lego models is awful. It makes you just doubt ever getting into the hobby.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Why would I ever buy these things? And now I have a bunch of like broken slave one and broken

00:03:31 ◼   ► death star and I don't know what to do with them because like there's no way I can rebuild them.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Right. Yeah. It's like when they break, they it is catastrophic because it's

00:03:39 ◼   ► anyway, never find all the pieces. So I've got the James Bond DB nine car, which is awesome.

00:03:47 ◼   ► awesome. And I love it, but it's only half built because I ran out of time three months

00:03:53 ◼   ► ago when it came out and I never got back into it. But I also enjoy building small Lego

00:03:58 ◼   ► kits, just ones that you can really knock out in like 45 minutes. I find it therapeutic,

00:04:05 ◼   ► like the way some people, like adult coloring books are a big thing. There's other hobbies

00:04:12 ◼   ► like that that people have that I, you know, just take your mind off whatever it is you're,

00:04:17 ◼   ► you know, normally I enjoy the sensation of snapping Lego bricks together. Yeah. But here's

00:04:23 ◼   ► my question to you, because I was doing one this morning. Do you ever get like, I, I hesitate to

00:04:29 ◼   ► even mention this on there. But sometimes I get a little OCD and I start wanting to put the bricks

00:04:34 ◼   ► on the model where the the little Lego stamp on top of each peg that they're aligned with each other.

00:04:44 ◼   ► Oh, I've never thought of that. But now I don't think I'm ever going to not be able to think of it.

00:04:48 ◼   ► And once it pops into my mind, and I and it's like, I try, I like stop thinking that that is

00:04:55 ◼   ► that way lies madness, because you can't even because there are some pieces that have to go

00:04:59 ◼   ► in a certain way, and they're not like a square. There's no way to put them with the little Lego

00:05:06 ◼   ► thing oriented correctly or aligned with similar pieces. But that way lies madness. I feel like

00:05:15 ◼   ► that might be one way that I'll wind up in the loony bin. I have to quickly forget you've ever

00:05:23 ◼   ► said that now.

00:05:28 ◼   ► I do like the Lego though.

00:05:30 ◼   ► But we also have a veritable toy store of unopened Lego boxes in our basement.

00:05:37 ◼   ► It's like that new Millennium Falcon.

00:05:38 ◼   ► I keep wanting it, but I know I'll never finish building it.

00:05:41 ◼   ► My friend of the show, Dave Whiskus, has the Millennium Falcon.

00:05:44 ◼   ► He also has the DB9 completely put together.

00:05:49 ◼   ► It is nice, but it is that Millennium Falcon, as nice as it is, it is so super finicky.

00:05:55 ◼   ► So I was in his office, you were in his office recently, too.

00:05:58 ◼   ► It's so super finicky in terms of like, it's cool that there's like this whole interior

00:06:05 ◼   ► to the ship and you can get to it.

00:06:06 ◼   ► But like the way that you get to it, by carefully lifting panels of the ship off, it's like,

00:06:13 ◼   ► I don't know, there's something it looks cool.

00:06:15 ◼   ► It is a magnificent model, but it's so super finicky

00:06:18 ◼   ► that I don't know that I would like to have that.

00:06:21 ◼   ► - And I just don't know where I'd put it

00:06:22 ◼   ► when I finished building it.

00:06:23 ◼   ► - Same here, absolutely same here.

00:06:26 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:06:31 ◼   ► We might as well get started though.

00:06:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:06:36 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:06:39 ◼   ► - Where to start?

00:06:40 ◼   ► I have, I do this every time a new iPad comes out

00:06:43 ◼   ► where I get into it and I write a review

00:06:46 ◼   ► and it's like here's one week with the iPad Pro or whatever.

00:06:51 ◼   ► But then it's like I get even more,

00:06:53 ◼   ► it takes longer than a week to really truly get into it.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Like I've been obsessing over this iPad Pro

00:07:00 ◼   ► ever since it came out.

00:07:01 ◼   ► I bought myself, by the way, the 11 inch.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Amy's got the, it's another thing.

00:07:07 ◼   ► I'm so, I've become super annoyed

00:07:09 ◼   ► that Apple calls it a 12.9 inch.

00:07:11 ◼   ► should call it a 13 inch. I don't know why they do that. Yeah, some stuff they round

00:07:17 ◼   ► us some stuff they don't. That's the weird thing. And consistency is a user facing feature.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Like in the old days when there was a 13 inch MacBook Air, and an 11 inch MacBook Air 13

00:07:28 ◼   ► and 11. They sounded pretty different two inches diagonal, they looked really different

00:07:32 ◼   ► in person. And it made a lot of sense. I think that calling it a 12.9 inch, it sort of has

00:07:39 ◼   ► like a psychological effect. It's like that 1299 price thing. You know, it kind of makes

00:07:43 ◼   ► you feel it's 12 ish inches, but it's not 12 decision. It's 13. Yep. It's but I think

00:07:49 ◼   ► people will say that Apple's cheating them out of a couple extra sub inches. I guess

00:07:53 ◼   ► that is one theory I have is that like so for example, they're they're 13 inch laptops

00:07:58 ◼   ► have always been 13.3 I believe every single one they've ever made is always at least in

00:08:03 ◼   ► in recent, you know, last 15, 20 years. A 13-inch Apple—

00:08:06 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin The 16 by 10 ones are all 13 by 13.3.

00:08:09 ◼   ► Dave Asprey And so you can round that down and nobody

00:08:12 ◼   ► feels they're getting ripped off, but if you round 12.9, 1, 2 inches up to 13, people

00:08:18 ◼   ► will say you're, you know, you're—

00:08:20 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin Yeah. Where are my extra inches?

00:08:22 ◼   ► Dave Asprey You're committing marketing fraud. And

00:08:23 ◼   ► I can see that, and that might be the whole explanation why, you know, that they technically

00:08:27 ◼   ► isn't all the way to 13, so they're not going to call it 13. But I think it's so

00:08:32 ◼   ► much easier to think of it that way. It feels more like that's that's the difference. Anyway,

00:08:38 ◼   ► I bought the 11 inch I'm convinced that that's the right size for me personally. I it's and

00:08:42 ◼   ► it is it is funny. It is sort of like the watches have gotten harder to pick a size

00:08:47 ◼   ► with the latest generation. I feel like I've had so many discussions with friends about

00:08:52 ◼   ► which iPad to get and there's I know there's a lot of people who are on the fence who were

00:08:56 ◼   ► never on the fence before because that the old 12.9 inch pros were so big. Yeah. And

00:09:01 ◼   ► It was great for some people. They loved it. But if you didn't really need it, you know for drawing or something like that

00:09:07 ◼   ► It was such a bear to lug around that, you know, you didn't buy it. Whereas now

00:09:12 ◼   ► It's tough to say

00:09:14 ◼   ► rule of thumb has always been if I

00:09:16 ◼   ► Don't take if I don't want to have to take a laptop with me when I travel then I want a 12.9 inch iPad

00:09:20 ◼   ► If I do want to or I have to take a laptop with me

00:09:23 ◼   ► Then I want the 11 inch because it's that old line that you've said

00:09:26 ◼   ► So well the lightness of the of the iOS device lets the Mac be heavier

00:09:30 ◼   ► So I can take a 15 inch MacBook Pro for when I need to do video

00:09:33 ◼   ► But I want to take that with me everywhere so I can use it for video and then I have the super light 11 inch

00:09:38 ◼   ► I've had for everything else

00:09:39 ◼   ► Yep

00:09:39 ◼   ► as a rule of thumb I that is it is a very complicated decision matrix and I feel like ultimately

00:09:44 ◼   ► You've nailed it that is to me

00:09:46 ◼   ► That's my advice to people is if you either only want an iPad to be your portable computer

00:09:53 ◼   ► You know whether you are all in on the iOS lifestyle

00:09:56 ◼   ► you don't even use a Mac anymore. Or if you have a like an iMac, and when you out you want to use

00:10:01 ◼   ► an iPad, or even if you have a MacBook, but sometimes you want to go on a trip where you

00:10:06 ◼   ► don't even pack your MacBook, it's a vacation, you want to do less work, you are only taking an iPad.

00:10:11 ◼   ► In those cases, I think you want the 12.9 inch if you want to use it as your main computer for

00:10:18 ◼   ► any serious stretch of time, whereas the 11 inch to me, is exactly as Steve Jobs described it when

00:10:25 ◼   ► when he introduced the first iPad in 2010,

00:10:28 ◼   ► it is this in-between device,

00:10:29 ◼   ► in between a phone and a laptop.

00:10:32 ◼   ► That's what the iPad is in my life.

00:10:33 ◼   ► It is exactly, and I just went down the rabbit hole

00:10:37 ◼   ► of watching a bunch of old Steve Jobs product intros.

00:10:41 ◼   ► And it is crazy how his description

00:10:45 ◼   ► of where they were imagining this new tablet to be,

00:10:50 ◼   ► how it's like, well, for me,

00:10:52 ◼   ► that's exactly where it still is.

00:10:54 ◼   ► And I know it's different for a lot of people

00:10:56 ◼   ► and that's why we have podcasts.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Talk about them.

00:11:00 ◼   ► - No, it's totally true.

00:11:01 ◼   ► And I think like the whole, well,

00:11:02 ◼   ► it's not fair to tell people they have to choose.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Some people shouldn't have to buy an iPad

00:11:07 ◼   ► and a MacBook or something,

00:11:08 ◼   ► but some people are very happy with an iMac

00:11:10 ◼   ► to do really Xeon or a Mac Pro to do like Xeon level work,

00:11:14 ◼   ► but they also have to travel

00:11:15 ◼   ► and so they have a MacBook as well.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And I think it's wrong to sort of say

00:11:21 ◼   ► you have to choose between these things.

00:11:23 ◼   ► You need everything according to your use case.

00:11:25 ◼   ► - But for me, I'm very, very confident

00:11:28 ◼   ► that the 11 inch is the right model for me.

00:11:30 ◼   ► What about you?

00:11:31 ◼   ► - I have been using the 12.9

00:11:33 ◼   ► because that's the one that they gave me to review.

00:11:36 ◼   ► And I haven't bought,

00:11:38 ◼   ► I'm probably gonna buy the 11 inch one.

00:11:40 ◼   ► I haven't bought it yet.

00:11:41 ◼   ► I wanted to see how long I could survive.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Just the idea that the bezels were gone

00:11:45 ◼   ► and it was so much smaller.

00:11:47 ◼   ► And it was almost like freedom

00:11:49 ◼   ► going to the smaller version of the 12.9.

00:11:51 ◼   ► But I think now that I'm ready to buy my own,

00:11:53 ◼   ► I think I'm also gonna go for the 11 inch.

00:11:55 ◼   ► - So one of the interesting things to me

00:11:56 ◼   ► about the new 12.9 inch with the greatly reduced bezels

00:12:00 ◼   ► is that when you put it on top of like a new MacBook Air,

00:12:04 ◼   ► it is a very similar footprint.

00:12:06 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:12:07 ◼   ► - And it's cool how much smaller it is

00:12:08 ◼   ► than my old 13 inch MacBook Pro,

00:12:11 ◼   ► the one from four years ago.

00:12:14 ◼   ► But it is remarkable how similar it is in footprint

00:12:17 ◼   ► and just basic heft to the MacBook Air.

00:12:20 ◼   ► They are very comparable machines as just closed devices in a backpack.

00:12:26 ◼   ► And I think one of the cool things about the iPad is that by having, especially the 12.9

00:12:31 ◼   ► inch still has the 4 to 3 aspect ratio and the 11 inch has a slightly different aspect

00:12:35 ◼   ► ratio which doesn't actually work out to good numbers.

00:12:40 ◼   ► But it's 4.3-ish.

00:12:42 ◼   ► It's certainly a lot closer to 4.3 than 16 to 9.

00:12:45 ◼   ► I find that that is very pleasant for a lot of the stuff I do on a laptop, which is reading

00:12:53 ◼   ► web pages, scrolling through emails. By having a higher—it's higher rather than wider—that's

00:13:02 ◼   ► to me a very neat screen. It sort of makes me vaguely wish that Apple would go away from

00:13:07 ◼   ► 16 to 9 laptop screens and go a little bit closer to 4.3.

00:13:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think there, I think, well, they had some of them

00:13:15 ◼   ► that were, there were 16.9 and some that were 16.10

00:13:17 ◼   ► for a while, but I think you're right,

00:13:19 ◼   ► because often on the stuff that we do,

00:13:21 ◼   ► it is the vertical height that matters.

00:13:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:13:23 ◼   ► - And I've gotten to a point where like,

00:13:24 ◼   ► I would just live on that iPad Pro

00:13:25 ◼   ► if I didn't have to do Final Cut.

00:13:27 ◼   ► And if I, if, if Photoshop wasn't such muscle memory

00:13:30 ◼   ► that it would, it would, it's just too inconvenient for me

00:13:33 ◼   ► with my set in my own ways, traditional computing mentality,

00:13:36 ◼   ► to learn something new on the iPad,

00:13:39 ◼   ► to do all this other graphic design stuff,

00:13:41 ◼   ► I would just live on that because it is so pleasant to use.

00:13:44 ◼   ► - Do you remember, were you using a Mac back in the day?

00:13:46 ◼   ► This would probably be around like 1990 or so

00:13:49 ◼   ► when it came out.

00:13:49 ◼   ► There was a company called Radius that made displays,

00:13:52 ◼   ► third-party displays for Macs.

00:13:54 ◼   ► And they had one that rotated that,

00:13:58 ◼   ► so instead of being wide, it was tall.

00:14:01 ◼   ► And it was like a 15-inch display,

00:14:03 ◼   ► which at the time was huge.

00:14:05 ◼   ► And you could rotate it sideways.

00:14:08 ◼   ► And I remember seeing it in Mac world,

00:14:11 ◼   ► know, the magazine or Mac user and lusting after it. But of course, it was, you know, like,

00:14:15 ◼   ► I don't know, $2,000. It was way out of my budget as a 19 year old. But I coveted it greatly. And one

00:14:24 ◼   ► of my computer science professors had it and of course had it oriented up and down because he was

00:14:30 ◼   ► looking at code. And it was like, unbelievable how much source code he could have on screen at one

00:14:36 ◼   ► time. It was like, "Oh my god, that is amazing!" The only way on a normal display that you could

00:14:44 ◼   ► look at that much source code at a time to see a two-page algorithm or something and try to

00:14:50 ◼   ► get it into your head would be to print it out and put the paper next to each other.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Jared Polin I used to use that for Quark and later for InDesign because you could see a whole page

00:14:58 ◼   ► of work, like when you were doing book design or document design, you could see the whole page.

00:15:01 ◼   ► Right way and and if you were doing you know, most of the stuff you would do in page layout whether it's a newspaper

00:15:07 ◼   ► A magazine is oriented in portrait not landscape. And so having a portrait display was actually really useful

00:15:13 ◼   ► With the iPad because you literally just do turn it and it does that for you. All right

00:15:17 ◼   ► Sort of went away

00:15:19 ◼   ► I mean like with something like a 30 inch iMac you get that much horizontal that you really wouldn't want I wouldn't want to

00:15:25 ◼   ► Just slide by side, right?

00:15:27 ◼   ► But on a laptop I kind of miss it, you know, yeah, I don't know that's

00:15:31 ◼   ► But for me, the thing that I love about the reason I love buying this 11 inch iPad is that

00:15:38 ◼   ► it's so much smaller footprint rise than even a MacBook Air, even the new MacBook Air. And so to

00:15:44 ◼   ► me, if I'm temporarily going to go and, you know, take something to a coffee shop and just work for

00:15:52 ◼   ► an hour out of the house, you know, just to get a change in scenery, taking this little 11 inch

00:15:57 ◼   ► inch sliver of a device feels so remarkably, and I'm a sucker for small machines. I used

00:16:03 ◼   ► to love the 11 inch Air. Still sort of pine for the iPhone SE size phone, even though

00:16:11 ◼   ► I would, you know, I just wish it was out there. I wish there was a new one. But anyway,

00:16:15 ◼   ► it's so cool as a little laptop. It is amazing.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Which is funny because my the CEO of the company I work for, he ordered the new MacBook Air

00:16:24 ◼   ► and ended up returning it and getting the highest level.

00:16:27 ◼   ► I used to call it Core M7.

00:16:28 ◼   ► I think they pretend that it's an i7 now.

00:16:31 ◼   ► 12-inch MacBook because it is the tiniest MacBook

00:16:35 ◼   ► and he wants to code.

00:16:37 ◼   ► And it's the same performance as the Air,

00:16:39 ◼   ► so he was willing to pay the extra money

00:16:40 ◼   ► just to have an even more portable MacBook.

00:16:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's some, you know, people, it's funny.

00:16:45 ◼   ► So many people, and I do think that the MacBook,

00:16:48 ◼   ► we're skipping all over the place,

00:16:49 ◼   ► but I do think the MacBook lineup as a whole, as a family,

00:16:52 ◼   ► Is a little weird right now because there's a couple of machines that are sorely in need of updates including the 12-inch MacBook

00:16:58 ◼   ► Yeah, and 13-inch MacBook escape the the pro without the touch bar

00:17:04 ◼   ► The all they did was gold for the 12-inch MacBook is the only update we got this year. Yeah, there's a new gold color

00:17:09 ◼   ► Yeah, and I don't think that the 13-inch MacBook Pro without the touch bar got touched at all

00:17:14 ◼   ► now

00:17:16 ◼   ► and so that's

00:17:18 ◼   ► It's a weird situation and I think it'll make a lot of sense once those machines do get updated

00:17:23 ◼   ► Well, I think it's the branding so like when the when the MacBook Air dropped to $999

00:17:28 ◼   ► They had the opportunity to change the name to just MacBook because it was the new entry-level computer

00:17:33 ◼   ► But they probably thought there was so much equity in the air name

00:17:36 ◼   ► they kept it and then the 12-inch MacBook came out and the air was cheaper than the MacBook and

00:17:40 ◼   ► Maybe they thought the MacBook would replace the air the way the air replaced the MacBook, but it didn't so now your baseline

00:17:46 ◼   ► Mac is the MacBook Air instead of the MacBook. And if you're willing to spend a little

00:17:50 ◼   ► bit more money for extra portability, you get the MacBook 12-inch. If you're willing

00:17:53 ◼   ► to spend a little bit extra money for the performance, you get the Pro. But these expectations,

00:17:58 ◼   ► a normal person looking at it would think the MacBook was the base and not the MacBook

00:18:02 ◼   ► Air.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu Yeah, it's very strange. And it's funny

00:18:05 ◼   ► because, like I said, I was digging through old Steve Jobs' product intros and I watched

00:18:10 ◼   ► the Mac, his original MacBook Air intro, everybody remembers it because of the cool, the cool

00:18:18 ◼   ► conceit of saying, hey, it even fits in one of these, which we've all seen, you know,

00:18:22 ◼   ► and he shows like a little inner office envelope, and then he actually has one that of course

00:18:28 ◼   ► is a perfect match. It is exactly the one that he showed in the slide. It's got the

00:18:32 ◼   ► neat little, you know, red thread tied around the thing to seal it. What a, it's just

00:18:38 ◼   ► amazing stagecraft really was. But it's so funny because again, in terms of like, hey,

00:18:44 ◼   ► this is exactly what we're talking about 10 years later, he even said it's like he framed

00:18:49 ◼   ► the whole introduction as everybody knows Apple makes the best notebooks in the world.

00:18:54 ◼   ► And everybody cheers because it's Mac World Expo. We've got MacBook and we've got MacBook

00:18:59 ◼   ► Pro. And it's so funny because they've gone back to those names. They've got a product

00:19:03 ◼   ► that's just called MacBook. In 2008, it was the white and black plastic ones, polycarbonate

00:19:11 ◼   ► if you want to be official. And then here, we've got this MacBook Air that fits in between

00:19:17 ◼   ► because it's sort of a premium product like a Pro, but it's also really, really small,

00:19:22 ◼   ► way smaller than any of the other ones. So, you know, the name made total sense and now

00:19:28 ◼   ► names make no sense, but they would if they just would take an eraser. Just take an eraser,

00:19:35 ◼   ► erase the air off the MacBook Air and then write air on the 12-inch MacBook. It would

00:19:41 ◼   ► all make sense. But I think you're right. It's just everybody's it. The fact that

00:19:46 ◼   ► it doesn't make sense, it is what it is. Everybody has internalized that the MacBook

00:19:50 ◼   ► Air, it doesn't mean the air doesn't mean anything related to the inner light anymore.

00:19:55 ◼   ► means it's the wedge-shaped $1,100 MacBook

00:19:59 ◼   ► that most people buy.

00:20:01 ◼   ► - And it has the, and also has a connotation now

00:20:03 ◼   ► of being the entry level because people are so used to being,

00:20:05 ◼   ► like none of them debuted at $999.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I think the original debuted at $1,799.

00:20:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was very expensive. - And the second one at $1,299.

00:20:11 ◼   ► So this is the cheapest debut MacBook Air ever,

00:20:14 ◼   ► but it's still way more than people's concept

00:20:15 ◼   ► of the Air being $999.

00:20:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally.

00:20:18 ◼   ► So I have been going nuts on the iPad.

00:20:25 ◼   ► I don't blame you. Absolutely. And I've wasted… Let me try to tally this up, how much money I've

00:20:32 ◼   ► spent on keyboards in the last 10 days. Is it more than Snell? That's the only metric.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Maybe. I don't know. I wouldn't want to bet on that. I didn't buy any expensive keyboards. I've

00:20:44 ◼   ► just been buying a lot. I'm obsessed with trying to find the right keyboard for me to use with the

00:20:53 ◼   ► the iPad and the Smart Folio keyboard case,

00:20:58 ◼   ► whatever they call it, what the hell?

00:21:00 ◼   ► It's a mouthful now.

00:21:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, the Smart Keyboard Folio.

00:21:04 ◼   ► - All right, is pretty good.

00:21:06 ◼   ► And as I've used it more and more since it came out,

00:21:11 ◼   ► I'm finding it better and better at, you know,

00:21:14 ◼   ► 'cause the thing is I don't wanna leave my iPad

00:21:15 ◼   ► in it all the time.

00:21:16 ◼   ► That is the big thing.

00:21:18 ◼   ► And that's why I definitely didn't like

00:21:21 ◼   ► the old keyboard folio that much because it just seemed like such a pain to get it on

00:21:27 ◼   ► and off.

00:21:28 ◼   ► It's like origami.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Yeah. And I never, and I'd be like trying to attach it to the wrong side. I get all

00:21:33 ◼   ► mixed up, spun around. I was never a huge fan of it. Um, this one, I'm, I, the more

00:21:41 ◼   ► I use it, the more easily I'm getting it in and out for handholding without any thing

00:21:47 ◼   ► on it and then popping it back in when I want to write something. And I'm okay with the

00:21:51 ◼   ► keys. They are what they are. And I'm also okay with the smaller keyboard on the 11-inch

00:21:57 ◼   ► Folio cover because the keys I actually use are full-size. It's not truly a full-size

00:22:06 ◼   ► keyboard, but all of the alphabetic keys are full-size, so close enough. And I'm okay

00:22:10 ◼   ► with having a small tab key or a tiny little half-size backslash key who gives a crap.

00:22:19 ◼   ► But I don't love taking it in and out. And so I'm kind of obsessed trying to find a

00:22:24 ◼   ► Bluetooth keyboard that I really like in terms—and do I want to use the same one everywhere?

00:22:29 ◼   ► Even when I'm at home and I'm typing in the kitchen, and do I want to use the same

00:22:33 ◼   ► keyboard I want to take with me in a backpack when I go on a trip? And so I've bought

00:22:37 ◼   ► a lot of keyboards.

00:22:38 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:22:39 ◼   ► Benji F

00:22:39 ◼   ► It's funny. So my godson, my ten-year-old godson, he doesn't like—forget the latest

00:22:44 ◼   ► MacBook keyboards. He doesn't like any computer keyboard. We ended up getting him

00:22:47 ◼   ► that typewriter keyboard they made for the iPad that feels like an original metal arm

00:22:52 ◼   ► type—and that he loves. So what we needed to do was find the version of the Apple extended

00:22:56 ◼   ► keyboard to dock. Someone needs to make that for the iPad for you.

00:23:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but I have the one that's Snell—we always call it the Snell keyboard, the Matthias,

00:23:07 ◼   ► whatever it's called. It's a Bluetooth keyboard with supposedly Apple extended keyboard to

00:23:12 ◼   ► feel keys, which don't feel anything like the Apple extended keyboard too, but they

00:23:16 ◼   ► are mechanical and so they feel better than most keyboards. And it's okay, but it's so

00:23:22 ◼   ► big. It's good to have. It's possible as a kitchen keyboard. It is not a good backpack

00:23:28 ◼   ► keyboard because it's just too big. It's just preposterous to carry that around in your

00:23:36 ◼   ► I'm gonna hold this thought because

00:23:40 ◼   ► It's a long rant. Yeah, I'm gonna take a break and I'm gonna thank our first sponsor and it is our friends at trace

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00:27:07 ◼   ► the coupon code, the talk show and you'll save some money. All right, keyboards for

00:27:13 ◼   ► the iPad. I bought one. I was at the Apple store. Apple has one that's only at the Apple

00:27:19 ◼   ► store. It's called a Logitech keys to go. I think it's gone. Have you seen this thing?

00:27:25 ◼   ► No, it's a tiny little sliver of a, of a, of a Bluetooth. It's about as small as it

00:27:34 ◼   ► could be. And it's got like a rubber cover, sort of like it's inside a rubber glove. So

00:27:40 ◼   ► it's like waterproof, they even showed you know, you can just totally dump water on it.

00:27:44 ◼   ► It's sort of the same basic idea as the apples folio keyboard, you know, where there's like

00:27:48 ◼   ► a covering. But man is a squishy ass keyboard. And it's cool. The one thing that's cool is

00:27:56 ◼   ► that the way it's packaged is you can just open the cardboard box and actually touch

00:28:00 ◼   ► it in the Apple store. So I did that. Oh, I did see this. Yeah. All right. Is that what

00:28:06 ◼   ► it's called? The keys to go? I don't remember, but I remember the squishiness. All right.

00:28:13 ◼   ► It's so squishy that I didn't buy it. I was like, Oh, this is terrible. And I tweeted

00:28:17 ◼   ► about it. And then a couple of people like MG Seagler said, Oh, I've got that. It's not

00:28:20 ◼   ► that bad. You get used to it. And so the next day, like an idiot, I went back to the Apple

00:28:24 ◼   ► store and bought it because I thought, well, if it's good enough for you to tech keys to

00:28:27 ◼   ► go. Yeah, Logitech keys to go. And, you know, it is super lightweight. And it is because it's,

00:28:37 ◼   ► you know, doesn't have like, keys, you know, it's got a thing, I would feel very safe and secure,

00:28:43 ◼   ► like keeping that in a backpack or a suitcase, just getting all bounced around, like it's

00:28:48 ◼   ► super durable. It pairs okay. But man, it's so squishy. And I

00:28:55 ◼   ► it's me. It's not it's the keyboard is what it is. And I got

00:28:59 ◼   ► to try it before buying it. So I shouldn't complain. But because

00:29:02 ◼   ► it's so squishy. I find myself pounding on the keys like, like

00:29:07 ◼   ► I was writing, he just going through email the other day

00:29:10 ◼   ► trying to use it. And my fingers hurt. Like, I'm I can't

00:29:15 ◼   ► Willingly just I think if you typed like a sane person it would actually be super quiet might be one of the quietest

00:29:21 ◼   ► Keyboards in the world, but instead I'm pounding on it because I want to feel something and if you just sort of press them

00:29:28 ◼   ► it's actually sort of close to the

00:29:31 ◼   ► hypothetical like like

00:29:34 ◼   ► Not even moving keys keyboard

00:29:37 ◼   ► So it's it was a very poorly thought-out purchase

00:29:43 ◼   ► The other thing and I think that this might be what I settle on is the duh obvious is Apple's

00:29:50 ◼   ► Magic keyboard the new one that charges with a lightning port which I didn't have until this week because my iMac came

00:29:58 ◼   ► Actually, what did my Mac come with? I think my Mac came with a big keyboard, didn't it?

00:30:02 ◼   ► I don't know. I have a 5k iMac from a couple years ago. I don't use the keyboard that came with that

00:30:07 ◼   ► I don't even know where it is because I use an Apple extended keyboard to at some point

00:30:11 ◼   ► I ended up with the old Magic keyboard, the one that took AA batteries in a cylinder behind

00:30:17 ◼   ► the keyboard. I never bought the new one because I wasn't going to use it, and I like the old

00:30:23 ◼   ► arrow key layout better with the upside-down T. So I had never even tried this new Magic

00:30:30 ◼   ► keyboard with the Lightning port. It's amazing. A, it is way lighter than the old Magic keyboard

00:30:37 ◼   ► you put two double A batteries in it. It is a tremendous difference in weight. It is super

00:30:41 ◼   ► lightweight. It is the smallest possible keyboard you could have that is truly full size. It

00:30:48 ◼   ► is just exactly like a MacBook keyboard, just with nothing else. There's no and there's

00:30:55 ◼   ► no sides. There's no top, there's no bottom. The even nicely, the function keys are full

00:31:01 ◼   ► height. So it's even nicer. And the key travel is amazing. It is. This is the keyboard that

00:31:08 ◼   ► I hope they can somehow put into MacBooks. Yes, this should be the MacBook keyboard.

00:31:13 ◼   ► And they have I think they have the butterfly mechanism or a butterfly mechanism with the,

00:31:18 ◼   ► you know, the quote unquote stability so that if you touch, you know, press down on the

00:31:22 ◼   ► corner of the key, the whole key goes down as one piece. It certainly feels like it,

00:31:26 ◼   ► whether it's actually the same mechanism or something similar. I don't know. But it, it

00:31:30 ◼   ► It just feels great in every single way.

00:31:33 ◼   ► And if Apple can put this keyboard,

00:31:35 ◼   ► that keyboard into MacBooks, I will weep tears of joy.

00:31:39 ◼   ► - I'm just salty that you can only get it

00:31:41 ◼   ► with the extended version in space gray,

00:31:43 ◼   ► which is the only acceptable color now.

00:31:45 ◼   ► You can get the silver one in both,

00:31:47 ◼   ► but can only get the space gray one with the number pad.

00:31:50 ◼   ► - You're taking the words right out of my mouth

00:31:52 ◼   ► 'cause I'm there.

00:31:53 ◼   ► The small Magic Keyboard only comes in the white

00:31:56 ◼   ► and they have the other ones right there in the Apple store.

00:32:00 ◼   ► big ones with the space gray and it looks so cool and it just hurts it hurts my heart

00:32:08 ◼   ► and I don't even want to admit how much more I would pay to get it in space gray so it's

00:32:13 ◼   ► a $99 keyboard it's 100 bucks it feels like a hundred dollar keyboard to be honest the

00:32:18 ◼   ► logitech one that I bought was 70 and this feels way more than $30 nicer than that logic

00:32:23 ◼   ► tech one and it's not that much heavier it's obviously not waterproof you know so when

00:32:29 ◼   ► you've traveled, you've got to somehow take that into consideration. And I have a suggestion

00:32:34 ◼   ► on that front. But I would pay, honestly, I was going to say 150 for Space Gray. I would

00:32:41 ◼   ► pay 200. If they had it for 200, I would have paid 200 to get it in Space Gray, because

00:32:45 ◼   ► that's how big of an idiot I am.

00:32:47 ◼   ► I was hoping I could buy the Space Gray one and just get that crazy Canadian miner on

00:32:51 ◼   ► the AVE channel to cut the number pad off of it for me.

00:32:57 ◼   ► This face gray looks so much cooler. Yeah. So in terms of traveling with it, and I think that this

00:33:02 ◼   ► is what I'm going to end up with, friends of the show studio, neat makers of all sorts of very cool

00:33:09 ◼   ► and a wide range of crazy stuff. They make everything from the glyph, which is a very cool

00:33:17 ◼   ► little tripod mount for phones to they have a, they have a kit for making clear ice cubes.

00:33:26 ◼   ► So they have a pen Siri remote holder, right a Siri remote holder. They just you know, they make cool things

00:33:32 ◼   ► They're just two guys

00:33:33 ◼   ► They have a podcast over there on the relay where they talk about the stuff that they make yeah, very cool stuff

00:33:39 ◼   ► But one of the products is called the canopy

00:33:41 ◼   ► It's a thing that put the new magic keyboard in and it's got like little suction on the one side

00:33:47 ◼   ► It's a little threefold thing. So you put the keyboard on and it sticks with these little suction cups

00:33:53 ◼   ► So you could remove it too. It's not like you're sticking it with glue or something like that

00:33:57 ◼   ► It sticks with suction and then it folds over and has a nice little leather strap

00:34:01 ◼   ► Yeah, so I think that that's my solution for traveling

00:34:04 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna like that better than using the folio keyboard because a it's a better keyboard

00:34:09 ◼   ► It is actually the best portable

00:34:11 ◼   ► It is literally the best feeling portable keyboard in the world in my opinion better than any MacBook

00:34:17 ◼   ► available better than any

00:34:20 ◼   ► Bluetooth keyboard I've felt that is that would be considered portable and now you can just plug it into charge off your right

00:34:27 ◼   ► Right. Well and the thing is it's like what do I value though? Like do I like it over?

00:34:32 ◼   ► I certainly like the keyboard more than the folio keyboard but

00:34:35 ◼   ► On the other hand, sometimes it's nice to have the iPad magnetically connected as opposed to just propped up

00:34:43 ◼   ► Mm-hmm, right, you know

00:34:45 ◼   ► There's scenarios like on an airplane or something like that. You hit a little turbulence or something if it's on your lap

00:34:50 ◼   ► It's not going you don't have to worry about the keyboard

00:34:52 ◼   ► Coming apart, you know from the iPad

00:34:55 ◼   ► So, I don't know

00:34:56 ◼   ► I feel like those are my two finalists in this battle royale of a keyboard to take with my iPad as I travel

00:35:03 ◼   ► Apple's smart keyboard with studio needs canopy to wrap it up and stick it in a backpack or

00:35:10 ◼   ► Just the most obvious choice and this whole thing was the complete waste of time and money

00:35:15 ◼   ► apples folio keyboard case

00:35:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I just sticks apples folio keyboard case because I am completely

00:35:21 ◼   ► Keyboard not agnostic but like you can drop me on a new keyboard and within 20 minutes. It's like fortnight, you know

00:35:28 ◼   ► I just take over after 20 minutes. I'm fine with it. So

00:35:31 ◼   ► The folio keyboard works fine for me a package of the whole thing up

00:35:35 ◼   ► But I do love I have the canopy and I do love it and now I'm jealous that I'm not using it

00:35:39 ◼   ► There is there are some weird stuff though because like an iPad

00:35:42 ◼   ► optimized keyboard has some keys that a Mac keyboard doesn't have and a Mac keyboard has keys to the iOS keyboard doesn't have like

00:35:51 ◼   ► for whatever reason Apple is you know as a kids conducting a war on escape keys and

00:35:56 ◼   ► the iOS

00:35:59 ◼   ► folio keyboard has never had an escape key and I guess a part of it is because iOS doesn't really do much with

00:36:05 ◼   ► escape key

00:36:07 ◼   ► but it also it also has the little thing in the corner to bring up like the

00:36:11 ◼   ► Alternate keyboards so you it's easier to get to like emoji picker, right?

00:36:17 ◼   ► And you if you're using a Mac keyboard actually don't even remember how you do

00:36:22 ◼   ► I don't have one in front of me right now as we record control command space

00:36:25 ◼   ► Control, so it's sort of like the Mac shortcut. Oh, no. Sorry. I was talking about the Mac. No, what about on iOS?

00:36:31 ◼   ► How do you get the emoji picker if you have a keyboard a Bluetooth keyboard connected that doesn't have I don't know

00:36:36 ◼   ► because I only ever use that button. Yeah. So I don't even know. Maybe you don't. Maybe

00:36:40 ◼   ► you don't get to use emoji. Yeah. You got to reach over and hit the screen like an animal.

00:36:45 ◼   ► And I will also say in this whole big mix of feeling one way than the other than the

00:36:54 ◼   ► other going back and forth. It is way nicer to have a, the, the, what do they call the

00:37:00 ◼   ► connector on the iPads now? The smart connector, the smart connector is a nicer thing in practice

00:37:06 ◼   ► than Bluetooth can ever be. Because you just, you know, when you're done with the keyboard,

00:37:12 ◼   ► you just pull the iPad apart from it and there's nothing else to do. Whereas with a Bluetooth

00:37:16 ◼   ► keyboard, you're in range, you know, and it's sort of like, it's sort of like I wish Bluetooth

00:37:20 ◼   ► had a worse range, right? Like I kind of wish I could set these keyboards up so that they

00:37:26 ◼   ► only have like three feet of range. Like, because I'm never, I don't want to use the

00:37:30 ◼   ► keyboard unless my iPad is within three feet. And it would be so nice if I could just walk

00:37:34 ◼   ► to another room and have it say, "Okay, you're not using the keyboard anymore."

00:37:39 ◼   ► But instead…

00:37:40 ◼   ► But just measure time of flight. If time of flight is over so many milliseconds, stop

00:37:42 ◼   ► using the keyboard.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Yeah. So it's like I'll be in the kitchen and I have a Bluetooth keyboard hooked up

00:37:48 ◼   ► and I just pick up the iPad and go to another room and I go to type and nothing happens.

00:37:53 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh," because it's still connected to the keyboard. Then I got to go

00:37:56 ◼   ► to Control Center, turn Bluetooth off. I always wait like a second, turn it back on. But it's

00:38:03 ◼   ► minor irritation every time and you never with the the smart connector you're it you're never

00:38:08 ◼   ► surprised right if it's connected it you can type and if it's not connected you don't you get the

00:38:15 ◼   ► on-screen keyboard and i never noticed that about the escape i think i think it's part of apple's

00:38:19 ◼   ► greater war on legacy computing because escape is not a human readable key if you happen to have

00:38:24 ◼   ► grown up with computers or you're working computers you know what it means but for example like after

00:38:28 ◼   ► the show finishes recording that escape button is going to turn into a stop record button for me

00:38:32 ◼   ► because I'm using QuickTime and QuickTime is gonna own it and the touch bar is gonna show a stop button instead of the escape button

00:38:36 ◼   ► And that's all way more human readable than just a continual escape key. I think yeah

00:38:41 ◼   ► the other thing

00:38:44 ◼   ► This pains me it pains me

00:38:47 ◼   ► But and I've had this happen before I remember very vividly the last time when the original iPad Pro

00:38:53 ◼   ► First one came out. I had a similar thing where after about 10 days. I started like reaching up to touch my MacBook

00:39:01 ◼   ► display. And you know that I do not like anybody touching my Mac displays. Like as soon as

00:39:08 ◼   ► I have a Macbook and somebody, you know, somewhere along the road six months in, somebody touches

00:39:15 ◼   ► my screen, there's a part of me that dies and I just want to throw the machine out and

00:39:20 ◼   ► just go get it. I got it now. Go all Howard Hughes and just buy a new Macbook.

00:39:25 ◼   ► - Like a dispenser, you throw it away, you pull it,

00:39:27 ◼   ► you run off the dispenser and put it down.

00:39:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just love the idea of a display

00:39:32 ◼   ► that has never been touched by a greasy finger.

00:39:34 ◼   ► But I find myself reaching up to touch the Mac

00:39:38 ◼   ► and it's very dependent on what I'm doing,

00:39:43 ◼   ► but like an app like Tweetbot that largely looks the same,

00:39:47 ◼   ► and if I'm switching back and forth with a lot of time

00:39:51 ◼   ► on the iPad Pro in laptop mode to doing it,

00:39:53 ◼   ► I'm not making an argument that the Mac should support touch. I'm just making the

00:39:58 ◼   ► observation that if you spend a lot of time on the iPad and using it in a laptop configuration,

00:40:04 ◼   ► it's very hard not to want to touch the Mac just because you stopped thinking about

00:40:12 ◼   ► it as something. But the other thing is I often always think that I can move a cursor

00:40:21 ◼   ► around by going underneath the spacebar on an iPad. And you know, there is no trackpad

00:40:25 ◼   ► there. Yeah, no, I wish they had to put a capacitive spacebar on the keyboard itself.

00:40:31 ◼   ► And it would work exactly the way the onscreen spacebar does. If you hold your finger there

00:40:35 ◼   ► for a few seconds and start swiping sideways, it would just it would just do the cursor

00:40:39 ◼   ► movement for you. Yeah, I don't know. It's it is funny. And that is a weird thing too

00:40:43 ◼   ► about this whole situation is that when you're using the onscreen keyboard, you do get a

00:40:48 ◼   ► a trackpad, right? You can just hold down the space key and you can move precisely move

00:40:52 ◼   ► the cursor around. And when you're using a hardware keyboard, which in theory should

00:40:56 ◼   ► be better in every way, you actually lose the ability to go into trackpad mode and move

00:41:01 ◼   ► the insertion point. You lose a very big feature. So it's such a mixed bag.

00:41:07 ◼   ► And humans are horrible at context, which if you take your hands off the keyboard to

00:41:11 ◼   ► use the screen, it's incredibly interruptive to your workflow. It's way better to keep

00:41:14 ◼   ► your hands where they are. So that still hurts me.

00:41:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a huge irritation to me

00:41:20 ◼   ► and it's a huge reason why,

00:41:21 ◼   ► it's a big one on my list of reasons that

00:41:26 ◼   ► as much as I'm spending all this time on the iPad Pro

00:41:28 ◼   ► trying to use it as much as I can,

00:41:30 ◼   ► one of the things I just cannot get over

00:41:33 ◼   ► is the lack of, the needing to reach up and touch.

00:41:38 ◼   ► On that front, the other thing is

00:41:41 ◼   ► I am so loving the new Apple Pencil

00:41:44 ◼   ► and I don't really draw, I don't have,

00:41:46 ◼   ► not a hobby of mine. You had a great video this past week, and you are a very good hobbyist

00:41:54 ◼   ► illustrator. You enjoy it. You're good at it. And so it makes for a good video.

00:42:01 ◼   ► If I made a video for illustrating, I would have to bring in outside talent to do the actual

00:42:08 ◼   ► drawing. I mean, Gray has done really well with just stick figures. So yeah,

00:42:13 ◼   ► I guess I could do that. I could do the stick figure out. I just like it. I just like using

00:42:17 ◼   ► the pencil for all sorts of things. I like the using it to manipulate the user interface.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I just love that it's there. I just love it as like a fidget thing in my hand because it feels

00:42:27 ◼   ► so good. But the thing that sort of drives me nuts is that when you are editing text,

00:42:32 ◼   ► it doesn't act as a precise placer of the insertion point. You gear in notes or mail,

00:42:40 ◼   ► and it's a long thing of text. You can use the pencil to place the insertion point, but

00:42:45 ◼   ► whatever, you know, you tap it in the middle of a word where you have a misspelling and

00:42:49 ◼   ► you want to change two letters. You can't tap in the middle of the word. If when you

00:42:54 ◼   ► tap on the word, the insertion point goes after the word and it's the exact same thing

00:42:58 ◼   ► you get when you tap with your finger and with your finger. It makes sense because your

00:43:02 ◼   ► finger is a very imprecise pointing device. The pencil on the other hand is incredibly

00:43:07 ◼   ► precise. So I find it very, very frustrating that when you're moving, trying to place the

00:43:12 ◼   ► insertion point precisely with the pencil, you get the same algorithm you get with the

00:43:16 ◼   ► finger.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Jared Polin Yeah, I mean, the pencil, your finger is,

00:43:19 ◼   ► it's a blunt instrument. And the pencil, it feels like you should be able to do all sorts

00:43:23 ◼   ► of very exact marks, like you should be able to circle words to select them. You should

00:43:27 ◼   ► be able to cut through words to open. I mean, there's so much potential there.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Dave Asprey Yeah, and the old, you know, oft quoted, if

00:43:33 ◼   ► see a stylist, they blew it. Steve Jobs line was only in the context of a device that needs

00:43:40 ◼   ► a stylist that you can't really properly function, you know, manipulate the device without a

00:43:45 ◼   ► stylist. So people forget that before the iPhone came out, most touchscreens were resistive,

00:43:49 ◼   ► where you literally had to squeeze two layers of plastic together to get it to register

00:43:53 ◼   ► an input. And you had to use a stylus or the nail of your finger to do anything on them.

00:43:58 ◼   ► And that was not that was not the future of computing. No. So like, I don't know, and

00:44:02 ◼   ► I had a handspring visor back in the day as my palm device. My wife had one too and

00:44:09 ◼   ► she really liked it. We used it a lot. It's kind of remarkable how much we used it given

00:44:13 ◼   ► that it didn't have any networking. There was no cell networking at the time or there

00:44:17 ◼   ► was cell networking but not on the palm devices and the Wi-Fi wasn't a thing yet. We used

00:44:22 ◼   ► it a lot for something that you have to get data in and out. You had to connect it by

00:44:26 ◼   ► USB to your Mac and sync. But yeah, if you lost your stylus,

00:44:30 ◼   ► you were you, you had to go find something stylus like like

00:44:35 ◼   ► there was nothing technically magic about the stylus. It was

00:44:37 ◼   ► just a piece of, you know, just a like an extra plastic. No, not

00:44:45 ◼   ► an ice order, three packs of extra stylus is just so I would

00:44:47 ◼   ► have one around for when I lost mine. Oh, it's not an etch a

00:44:50 ◼   ► sketch. What were those things called? You know, but there were

00:44:52 ◼   ► those things that you could buy as a kid where you could draw on

00:44:54 ◼   ► them and they were sort of like an Etch A Sketch where it was like magnetic paper.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. I don't remember.

00:45:01 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, whatever they were called, if you remember. You could use that as your stylus.

00:45:07 ◼   ► You could use a toothpick if you wanted to. But you needed something to press. You couldn't

00:45:12 ◼   ► just tap on things. So that's what Jobs was talking about. Jobs was talking about

00:45:16 ◼   ► needing a stylus. I don't think that the iPad ever should have anything that requires

00:45:22 ◼   ► the pencil. I think that they've done a great job of that. But I do think, though,

00:45:27 ◼   ► that they still haven't fully taken advantage of it. If you do have the pencil connected

00:45:31 ◼   ► and paired, so many things could be so much better. It should be fantastic for selecting

00:45:36 ◼   ► text and stuff like that. And instead, it's not. It's actually—

00:45:40 ◼   ► **Ezra Klein:** All that stuff from the Microsoft's Courier demo from all those years ago.

00:45:43 ◼   ► **Beserat Debebe:** Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the other thing I tweeted over the weekend is

00:45:48 ◼   ► I have found myself in the last week or so really wishing that I could do handwriting

00:45:54 ◼   ► to text because I'll be sitting on the couch with the iPad and I don't have a key—all

00:45:59 ◼   ► this talk of keyboards, you know, they're all in the kitchen or in my office and I'm

00:46:03 ◼   ► just sitting there with nothing but the naked iPad and a pencil and I want to—oh, somebody

00:46:09 ◼   ► sent me something interesting on Twitter I want to answer.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I don't like typing on the screen on the iPad.

00:46:15 ◼   ► I never have and if anything I've gotten worse at it

00:46:19 ◼   ► or I feel like I've gotten worse

00:46:21 ◼   ► because I feel like 10 years into this,

00:46:24 ◼   ► 11 years I guess at this point,

00:46:26 ◼   ► my thumb typing on an iPhone has gotten,

00:46:29 ◼   ► continues to improve.

00:46:30 ◼   ► Like I'm better at typing on the iPhone

00:46:32 ◼   ► than I ever have been.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Part of it is that the phones have gotten bigger,

00:46:35 ◼   ► the phone that I carry has gotten bigger

00:46:37 ◼   ► so the keyboard is a little bigger

00:46:38 ◼   ► and there's bigger targets

00:46:40 ◼   ► and I've just gotten really good at it.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I can't type on an iPad as fast as I can on my phone

00:46:45 ◼   ► And that is frustrating.

00:46:47 ◼   ► I always feel, I feel like I'm trying to run underwater.

00:46:51 ◼   ► Like I'm in the pool and I'm trying to run.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And it's like, that is not what you're supposed to do

00:46:57 ◼   ► in a pool.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And so whether I actually would be faster

00:47:01 ◼   ► if I could just write on screen

00:47:03 ◼   ► and have it turn into text as I write, like the Newton did,

00:47:07 ◼   ► whether that actually would be faster

00:47:09 ◼   ► than typing on the onscreen keyboard or not,

00:47:12 ◼   ► it would feel faster to me,

00:47:13 ◼   ► which is really all that matters.

00:47:15 ◼   ► I wouldn't feel hamstrung.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And I suspect I could hand write faster

00:47:19 ◼   ► than I can type on an iPad on the screen.

00:47:22 ◼   ► So I really wish that you could do that.

00:47:26 ◼   ► And it's funny because I tweeted that

00:47:28 ◼   ► and a bunch of people said,

00:47:29 ◼   ► "Yeah, I wish you could do that too."

00:47:32 ◼   ► Some people pointed to some third party keyboards.

00:47:35 ◼   ► What the heck is this thing called?

00:47:37 ◼   ► It's like called Mezik or something.

00:47:41 ◼   ► I don't know, I just bought it.

00:47:43 ◼   ► but it's a third party keyboard for the iPad.

00:47:46 ◼   ► And when you use this keyboard,

00:47:48 ◼   ► you get like a little box where the keyboard is

00:47:50 ◼   ► and you can write with the pencil

00:47:52 ◼   ► and it turns what you write to real text.

00:47:56 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:56 ◼   ► - The handwriting recognition is surprisingly accurate.

00:48:00 ◼   ► I forget what, it's some kind of third party thing

00:48:03 ◼   ► that I guess the thing that they licensed.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Yeah, it's called MaZEC, M-A-Z-E-C.

00:48:09 ◼   ► - I mean, Apple does it with Asian light.

00:48:10 ◼   ► Like you can write in Chinese

00:48:11 ◼   ► it'll recognize all the characters that you're right just doesn't do it in Latin languages right

00:48:15 ◼   ► that's and that's part of the frustration is that Apple supports it for Asian languages they have it

00:48:19 ◼   ► on the watch right where you can write on the watch and they won't do it on the device where

00:48:25 ◼   ► to me it makes the most sense for you know in a Latin language the iPad if you have a pencil and

00:48:31 ◼   ► I can't help but suspect that part of Apple is gun shy from the whole Newton thing that maybe

00:48:36 ◼   ► that the bad reputation that Newton had as a that it had, you know, the handwriting recognition

00:48:44 ◼   ► was literally a joke. You know, the Simpsons made jokes, Dunesbury made a joke that everybody

00:48:48 ◼   ► remember everybody remembers the jokes about, you know, eat up Martha more than they remember

00:48:53 ◼   ► the Newton. And just the fact that the Newton itself is sort of, you know, because it got

00:48:59 ◼   ► canceled unceremoniously, I know, and it was the right decision. And when he did it, Steve

00:49:04 ◼   ► Jobs had good things to say about it. He was like this, "We're not canceling it because it's a bad

00:49:07 ◼   ► product. We're canceling it because we've got to focus this company to save it." And focus means

00:49:12 ◼   ► doing things like killing the Newton, killing OpenDoc, et cetera. But I feel like it still

00:49:20 ◼   ► is a scar on Apple's corporate soul, right? Because it was a failure. Ultimately, for whatever,

00:49:26 ◼   ► you know, it wasn't—it suffers from an unfair, bad reputation. It was a lot better product than

00:49:32 ◼   ► people who didn't use it think. The handwriting recognition, in fact, got really good. What they

00:49:40 ◼   ► shipped originally should not have shipped. It was bad. But what it eventually became was, I think,

00:49:47 ◼   ► pretty good. I had, I think, a Newton 130. I forget which one, 120 or 130. And it was pretty good. It

00:49:53 ◼   ► was fast enough. And the way that it turned what you write into text, the pace that it went at was

00:49:59 ◼   ► just write. I could write as fast as I could. You didn't have to use some weird, made-up

00:50:07 ◼   ► printing language like Palm did with graffiti. And again, I had a Palm and I used it and I learned

00:50:13 ◼   ► graffiti and that made it work. And my wife and I used to write notes to each other and we'd end

00:50:20 ◼   ► up making our tees the weird graffiti way. Like I'm not put slamming Palm for that, but there's

00:50:25 ◼   ► There's no way Apple would ever have done.

00:50:27 ◼   ► It's just not something Apple would ever do

00:50:29 ◼   ► is make you invent, make you learn a new way of writing.

00:50:32 ◼   ► You know, the Apple ways, they've got to,

00:50:35 ◼   ► somehow got to understand everybody's crazy handwriting

00:50:38 ◼   ► as it is.

00:50:39 ◼   ► But boy, I would really like to do that

00:50:41 ◼   ► in any text input thing,

00:50:43 ◼   ► but when I have the pencil in my hand,

00:50:46 ◼   ► it just seems so frustrating that you can't, you know,

00:50:48 ◼   ► and they have the, you know, they have it on Mac too, right?

00:50:51 ◼   ► It's called like Inkwell or something.

00:50:52 ◼   ► I don't know if it's, is it even still there?

00:50:54 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:50:55 ◼   ► Yeah, but they'll do handwriting to text on the Mac.

00:50:59 ◼   ► They do it on the watch.

00:51:01 ◼   ► And they do it in iOS on Asian languages.

00:51:04 ◼   ► But they don't allow it for Latin languages.

00:51:06 ◼   ► And for as good as the Newton got at handwriting recognition,

00:51:11 ◼   ► what, 20 years ago?

00:51:12 ◼   ► Over 20 years ago?

00:51:14 ◼   ► Think about how much better it would be now on modern hardware.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And it certainly seems like something machine language

00:51:21 ◼   ► would make really good.

00:51:24 ◼   ► Like you wouldn't, I don't even know if the right way

00:51:25 ◼   ► to do the algorithm would be to come up

00:51:28 ◼   ► with an algorithm at all.

00:51:29 ◼   ► It might just be better to feed it all into machine learning

00:51:32 ◼   ► and let the computers figure it out.

00:51:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just like the pencil is so much a pencil,

00:51:36 ◼   ► it makes the iPad feel like it should be

00:51:39 ◼   ► much more like a paper.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - You can almost do anything you can

00:51:43 ◼   ► with marking up paper with it.

00:51:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it does things too.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Like if you start a note and just use the pencil

00:51:51 ◼   ► and just write, and it doesn't turn your handwriting

00:51:53 ◼   ► to text. But it obviously is doing that behind the scenes because you can search for what

00:51:59 ◼   ► you write. And it in my experience, it is remarkably good and my handwriting is not

00:52:04 ◼   ► good. And so you know, that it's obviously doing handwriting to text because it's indexing

00:52:10 ◼   ► it, but it won't actually just turn it to text. And

00:52:15 ◼   ► Jared Ranere: it might be trying to keep it authentically hand like if they they think

00:52:18 ◼   ► that if you're handwriting, it should look like you're handwriting, but it'd be nice

00:52:20 ◼   ► to have the option to digitize.

00:52:22 ◼   ► digitize? Well, I get it notes, I get that you might want your handwriting to stay handwriting

00:52:26 ◼   ► in notes. But you know, like when I'm writing, responding to somebody on Twitter or responding

00:52:30 ◼   ► to email, I just want to write and have it turn into text. Exactly like scribble on the

00:52:35 ◼   ► watch. Yeah, exactly like that. Just very frustrating to me because I know it's technically

00:52:41 ◼   ► possible. I know Apple itself has solved this problem on ancient ancient arm hardware, all

00:52:48 ◼   ► the way from the first time they were using ARM back on the Newton.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And I know that they could do way better today because the machines are so much faster and

00:52:57 ◼   ► machine learning is a real thing.

00:53:01 ◼   ► It's very frustrating and it just feels—and I never had this feeling with the old Apple

00:53:06 ◼   ► Pencil and the iPad because I didn't have the pencil with me all the time.

00:53:11 ◼   ► I never lost my pencil.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But I had like a system.

00:53:17 ◼   ► two places in my backpack where the pencil might be. But it was always in—this pencil

00:53:22 ◼   ► spent most of its time in my backpack. Whereas now, it's always connected to the side of

00:53:27 ◼   ► the iPad, and I've always got it. It just feels frustrating. So that's one of my top

00:53:33 ◼   ► frustrations with the iPad.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Jared Ranere: It's like that Syracuse thing where it's finally good enough that you

00:53:38 ◼   ► start wanting to sweat the details.

00:53:40 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu: Yeah, exactly. That is exactly how I feel about the pencil. What about you?

00:53:45 ◼   ► How are you feeling with the pencil?

00:53:46 ◼   ► I love it. I'm using it and I did not mind the other one at all

00:53:51 ◼   ► You know people made fun of it for having to stick out when you charged it and things like that

00:53:54 ◼   ► But you know

00:53:54 ◼   ► I would run out of pencil in a coffee shop or on a plane and it was a lifesaver just plugging it in and getting

00:53:59 ◼   ► A bit more juice. So I was I was fine with it, but having it always I would lose pencils

00:54:03 ◼   ► I would leave them in different cities

00:54:04 ◼   ► I would leave them on planes and it's just it's become a habit to slap it on top of the

00:54:08 ◼   ► iPad and it's just it's always charged that way I forget that it's actually an electrical device now because it's always they're always charged

00:54:16 ◼   ► I'm using it constantly. I put it back there anytime I get up to get anything

00:54:19 ◼   ► And it just it went enough over the top of that curve that it's become almost

00:54:24 ◼   ► Almost like a real pencil at this point

00:54:27 ◼   ► It's it's just a remarkably pleasant thing to hold in hand. It really is. I don't know. I'm I

00:54:33 ◼   ► Just can't say enough good things about it. Yeah

00:54:37 ◼   ► I'm vacillating on whether I want more of the sides to be flat because it feels more like a standard pencil

00:54:42 ◼   ► I can rest my index finger on it like I would a standard pencil, but not my middle finger.

00:54:46 ◼   ► And I'm used to having sort of flat edges on both sides. So I'm getting to that point

00:54:49 ◼   ► of fussiness now.

00:54:50 ◼   ► It is a little weird having one flat side. I can't recall ever having a pen or pencil

00:54:56 ◼   ► with one flat side before. I've either had like an octagon—is that what a pencil is?

00:55:01 ◼   ► An octagon or a hexagon?

00:55:02 ◼   ► A hexagon, I think.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Yeah, probably a hexagon. An octagon would be too many. Yeah. So either a traditional

00:55:07 ◼   ► pencil that's a hexagon or something that's completely round, like a pen, like having

00:55:12 ◼   ► one flat side is different, but it's not unpleasant.

00:55:15 ◼   ► It shows you which side has to be connected for the charging to work, and if you had more

00:55:19 ◼   ► than that, you'd have to try to figure out which one. So I get that. It just feels like

00:55:23 ◼   ► an in-between thing to me right now.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah, and it's so funny because everybody—and I've been reading a bunch of reviews and

00:55:29 ◼   ► listening to podcasts, and everybody's talking about the iPad Pros, and I haven't heard

00:55:33 ◼   ► anybody say they don't like the new form factor of the iPad Pros. Everybody really

00:55:38 ◼   ► loves the flat sides. The only downside I can think of is Syracuse's observation that

00:55:44 ◼   ► it makes it harder to pick up when it's naked, especially one-handed. There is some truth

00:55:49 ◼   ► to that because it is flat. Even with the camera bump, the camera bump, there is a weird

00:55:54 ◼   ► tripod effect where it—you'd almost wish that the camera bump raised it more so that

00:56:00 ◼   ► it'd be easier to pick up. Instead, somehow, even with what looks like a very big camera

00:56:06 ◼   ► bump, it still lies flat.

00:56:08 ◼   ► Steven: Yeah, my fingers were so stubby I could never get them underneath an iPad anyway,

00:56:11 ◼   ► so I just haven't changed the way I pick it up at all, but that's valid.

00:56:14 ◼   ► Dave: But it is funny. It's just neat. It looks better. I love the flat sides. I love

00:56:19 ◼   ► the way it feels, but it's such a—I don't know what informed what, but it's such a—as

00:56:24 ◼   ► a practical matter, to have the pencil magnetically attached like it does, you need flat sides.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Steven Yes. Yeah. And it's weird because when I—I was hoping that when the new iPads

00:56:33 ◼   ► came out, we'd finally have this unified design language across Apple's mobile stuff, the

00:56:37 ◼   ► way we have with the MacBook Air across Apple's computers. But now with this, I'm kind of

00:56:42 ◼   ► not upset because I want more stuff to look like this again.

00:56:44 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu (01h00): The pencil is so neat too because it is a computer,

00:56:49 ◼   ► right? The Apple Pencil is a tiny little computer and it is one of these things that it's like

00:56:54 ◼   ► one of the things that Apple does not get anywhere near enough credit for, in my opinion,

00:56:59 ◼   ► how good they are getting at making tiny little computers. AirPods are tiny little computers.

00:57:04 ◼   ► Then the whole way that their two AirPods are always in perfect sync in one ear and the other

00:57:11 ◼   ► is because they're two little computers that negotiate with each other and like, you know,

00:57:16 ◼   ► in less time than you could ever notice. They're, you know, ABABAB. Okay, we're in perfect sync.

00:57:23 ◼   ► There you go. So this pencil is a computer, but it has no lights. It has no ports. It doesn't.

00:57:30 ◼   ► There's no sign that it's a computer. All the things that you think a computer has click a

00:57:35 ◼   ► button. Nope. Doesn't have a button. Doesn't have a light. Doesn't have a port. I just.

00:57:40 ◼   ► I just an object, which is what more and more of Apple things are becoming. Exactly. Except

00:57:45 ◼   ► and I love this. You snap it onto the iPad and what do you get? You get a little on screen,

00:57:51 ◼   ► Little like a popover type thing that says Apple pencil and then it tells you the battery life because that is one thing for me

00:57:57 ◼   ► I never had any idea how much battery life was in my old Apple pencil and when it ran out of the widget

00:58:02 ◼   ► Well, yeah, there were ways that you could check and I knew about it, but I'd never I would never know

00:58:08 ◼   ► It wasn't your face. Yeah, you know, where is this? You never go to check you just collect it and it's like, okay

00:58:13 ◼   ► I see your Apple pencil and by the way your it's got 93% battery life

00:58:17 ◼   ► And because it's a little computer if you ever do forget and just put it down

00:58:20 ◼   ► It goes into a deep sleep mode to stay in new power. So yeah, I use it when you pick it up again

00:58:24 ◼   ► It's remarkably clever. Yeah, it's you know it it I wonder how long it takes

00:58:29 ◼   ► I remember talking to Apple about that when in a

00:58:31 ◼   ► Couple weeks ago and you know had a briefing to talk about all this stuff and that was one of the points

00:58:36 ◼   ► They were super proud about is that the pencil the pencil knows like it. It's like a little you know, and I'm per morphe

00:58:43 ◼   ► Anthropomorphic item it like knows when it's not being used

00:58:46 ◼   ► Yeah

00:58:48 ◼   ► Yeah, they don't even talk about the same because when they with the previous version was like it it'll fast charge to this point

00:58:53 ◼   ► It'll totally charge and now they just don't want you to think about charging anymore. They don't give you any number

00:58:58 ◼   ► Let's just put it on your iPad and it will always be and it really like air pods. It'll just always be charged

00:59:02 ◼   ► The the nub nib, what do you call the tip the tip?

00:59:07 ◼   ► Yeah, the nib tip is exactly the same as the old Apple and I don't know why I don't know, you know

00:59:13 ◼   ► it's an it to me, it's interesting that it's exactly the same because

00:59:18 ◼   ► Everything else is different and you can't use the old pencil with a new iPad and you can't use the new one with an old iPad

00:59:23 ◼   ► Etc. So they could have changed the nib and it really wouldn't matter

00:59:26 ◼   ► It's not like it's I don't think there's anybody out there who's like stockpiled hundreds and hundreds of dollars of replacement tips

00:59:32 ◼   ► And oh, thank god

00:59:34 ◼   ► All of my replacement tips will still work

00:59:36 ◼   ► But on the other hand, I can't think of any you know

00:59:39 ◼   ► There's no reason not to use this. Yeah, there's no reason to change it. They don't change for changes sake, right?

00:59:46 ◼   ► And so if you do have a stockpile of old Apple pencil nibs, you're in luck

00:59:51 ◼   ► It'll all work. I

00:59:54 ◼   ► Just love this product. I really do. It's it's so clever and that whole the whole thing from

00:59:59 ◼   ► Planning to X. It's one of those things when people keep saying, you know those old, you know, Apple's doomed Apple doesn't innovating

01:00:05 ◼   ► well

01:00:05 ◼   ► You just look at some of the products that have come over the last few years and how smart they are and not truly

01:00:10 ◼   ► Again, like what you do with watch bands

01:00:12 ◼   ► the whole watching history never thought about making the kind of bands that was easily changeable or easily customizable and there have been

01:00:17 ◼   ► People making stylists and people making all these projects products for years whack-om had a decade lead

01:00:22 ◼   ► On these things and Apple just thought of stuff that in a decade never occurred to whack-off hold that thought on the watch bands

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01:03:21 ◼   ► squarespace.com/talkshow. All right, watch bands. Here's a thought that popped into my

01:03:27 ◼   ► head this week. I don't know if you remember this René, but last year Apple announced

01:03:33 ◼   ► a product called AirPower. Yes, I've heard of it. And it's a very appealing sounding

01:03:41 ◼   ► product. It's a charging pad that you could rest a iPhone 8 or iPhone 10, including the

01:03:50 ◼   ► the XS and XR on it and it would charge.

01:03:52 ◼   ► And you could put your Apple Watch on it

01:03:57 ◼   ► and it would charge your Apple Watch.

01:04:00 ◼   ► And what else was it gonna do?

01:04:04 ◼   ► - It was do up to two phones, the Apple Watch

01:04:06 ◼   ► and the AirPods with a special--

01:04:07 ◼   ► - That's right, the AirPods.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I can't believe I forgot that.

01:04:09 ◼   ► So the AirPods, there was gonna be a new case

01:04:14 ◼   ► and they didn't have exact plans at the time

01:04:17 ◼   ► for what would the story be for people

01:04:20 ◼   ► who already own AirPods?

01:04:21 ◼   ► They didn't, they said, "We don't know yet.

01:04:22 ◼   ► "We're thinking about it, but probably it would be

01:04:25 ◼   ► "something that people who already own AirPods

01:04:27 ◼   ► "could just buy the new case

01:04:29 ◼   ► "instead of buying $160 new AirPods.

01:04:32 ◼   ► "You could just buy the case

01:04:33 ◼   ► "and then you'd have this wireless case

01:04:34 ◼   ► "and then you just rest it on the thing

01:04:36 ◼   ► "and it would charge."

01:04:37 ◼   ► Well, it's about 14 months later

01:04:43 ◼   ► and the AirPower is nowhere to be seen.

01:04:48 ◼   ► Apple has held two events this past few months

01:04:52 ◼   ► and they've never mentioned it at either event.

01:04:54 ◼   ► And in fact, after their September event

01:04:56 ◼   ► introducing new phones, they almost eradicated

01:05:00 ◼   ► all mention of it from apple.com.

01:05:02 ◼   ► - But it's still on the instruction book

01:05:04 ◼   ► for the XS and the XR, which is remarkable for me.

01:05:06 ◼   ► - It is, that is the most prominent mention

01:05:09 ◼   ► airpower in 2018 is in the get it start getting started. I think you're the one who pointed that

01:05:15 ◼   ► out on Twitter. At least you're the one who pointed it out that I noticed, which is rather

01:05:19 ◼   ► remarkable. And you know that Apple pays an awful lot of attention to like the things like the

01:05:26 ◼   ► Getting Started guide that ships with iPhones. Everything in that box is so fully considered

01:05:33 ◼   ► right up to the top levels of the company. So that's deliberate and it certainly is a suggestion

01:05:41 ◼   ► that maybe it is still coming. I do not think it is coming in calendar year 2018 because as we

01:05:49 ◼   ► record it is November 18 and US Thanksgiving holiday is this week. I don't know when Apple

01:06:00 ◼   ► effectively shuts down, but it is not going to be, you know, it's not the week to release

01:06:06 ◼   ► new products.

01:06:07 ◼   ► Jared Ranerel There's only one December product I can remember,

01:06:10 ◼   ► and that's the smart battery case for the iPhone 7. That's the only thing I can remember

01:06:13 ◼   ► coming out into December.

01:06:14 ◼   ► Dave Asprey Right, and that's one of the weirdest products

01:06:17 ◼   ► in Apple history. It was, I loved it. It was, because it was so quirky, and it was in so

01:06:23 ◼   ► many ways a very good product, but it was very unusual, and it wasn't meant to

01:06:27 ◼   ► Jared Ranerel It was function over form, and it drove a

01:06:29 ◼   ► lot of people crazy for it.

01:06:30 ◼   ► - Very much, it is truly,

01:06:32 ◼   ► it is probably the most function over form device

01:06:35 ◼   ► in the entire Johnny Ive era of Apple.

01:06:38 ◼   ► Maybe even in Apple company history, honestly.

01:06:42 ◼   ► I don't even know what else to compare it to,

01:06:45 ◼   ► but you're right though, it came out at a weird time.

01:06:48 ◼   ► The original AirPods came out at a weird time.

01:06:50 ◼   ► They weren't supposed to, they were supposed to ship,

01:06:54 ◼   ► ideally, probably alongside the iPhones that year,

01:06:57 ◼   ► in September or early October.

01:06:59 ◼   ► And Apple even released at the time a statement.

01:07:04 ◼   ► I forget if it was given to one outlet or what,

01:07:08 ◼   ► but they had a brief press release that just said,

01:07:11 ◼   ► "Look, AirPods are very difficult to manufacture

01:07:15 ◼   ► "and we're only gonna release them when they're ready

01:07:18 ◼   ► "and they're not ready yet.

01:07:19 ◼   ► "We're working as hard as we can

01:07:20 ◼   ► "and they'll be out as soon as we can

01:07:22 ◼   ► "and we think you're gonna love them."

01:07:24 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:07:25 ◼   ► In other words, they're late

01:07:27 ◼   ► because they're hard to manufacture.

01:07:29 ◼   ► you know, the truth, right? It's, you know, but they did end up start dribbling into customers'

01:07:36 ◼   ► hands in like mid-December. And it was hard to get them for Christmas. So in theory, you

01:07:43 ◼   ► know, could air power ship silently, quietly in mid-December or something, early December?

01:07:50 ◼   ► It could. I'm not going to say it can't happen. I wouldn't say it's entirely unprecedented.

01:07:55 ◼   ► I don't I would I would bet that it isn't gonna happen

01:07:58 ◼   ► To me. It's either a 2019 thing or it is going to get killed or

01:08:04 ◼   ► a it'll come out exactly as

01:08:06 ◼   ► described in

01:08:09 ◼   ► Sometime in 2019 who knows early or late or whatever?

01:08:12 ◼   ► B it is going to change and what they will ship is going to be different than what was shown last year

01:08:20 ◼   ► Or see they're gonna kill this thing

01:08:23 ◼   ► And it's just never in there just it's gonna be something we just don't talk about we don't talk about air power

01:08:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it's interesting because there's a bunch of products. I would have expected like I would have expected maybe the second generation

01:08:35 ◼   ► Airpods maybe the inductive case. I know that's that's commingled with air power, but just they could have released

01:08:42 ◼   ► What sweat resistant air pods if they'd wanted well they could have been on the agenda

01:08:48 ◼   ► We didn't get coffee like updates for a bunch of the max still it's just it's very strange

01:08:52 ◼   ► sort of an end of the year vibe.

01:08:54 ◼   ► - Well, and I really do wonder

01:08:56 ◼   ► how that ties into AirPods.

01:09:00 ◼   ► Now, AirPods are, along with the pencil,

01:09:04 ◼   ► and I feel like they're almost like sibling products

01:09:06 ◼   ► because they're, like I said 10 minutes ago,

01:09:08 ◼   ► they're these tiny little computers

01:09:09 ◼   ► that you would never think of as computers.

01:09:12 ◼   ► And they're just such a joy to use.

01:09:13 ◼   ► I've never lost mine.

01:09:16 ◼   ► I still have my original pair from whenever they came out.

01:09:21 ◼   ► and my battery life on them is still tremendous.

01:09:23 ◼   ► I have, and it was funny this week,

01:09:27 ◼   ► at some point in the last week,

01:09:29 ◼   ► I have the Pixel 3 and I have,

01:09:32 ◼   ► I bought Apple's USB-C to 3.5 millimeter headphone jack.

01:09:36 ◼   ► I don't know why, again, I just piss money away

01:09:40 ◼   ► at the Apple store, it's like, oh, $9, I'll buy that.

01:09:42 ◼   ► I bought a USB-C to headphone jack

01:09:45 ◼   ► that I plan never to use.

01:09:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:09:48 ◼   ► Just to see it.

01:09:49 ◼   ► So, you know. - Just to have one.

01:09:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, they didn't give me one with the,

01:09:52 ◼   ► they didn't give any of the reviewers one with things.

01:09:55 ◼   ► So, I bought one and I have Googles

01:09:58 ◼   ► and they both work everywhere.

01:10:00 ◼   ► You know, I can plug, you know, there's no difference.

01:10:02 ◼   ► But you know, they both, any device I have with USB-C,

01:10:06 ◼   ► a MacBook, an iPad Pro, my Pixel 3,

01:10:10 ◼   ► I can plug either one into any of those USB-C jacks

01:10:13 ◼   ► and put headphones in and it just works.

01:10:16 ◼   ► The problem I had is I couldn't find a pair of headphones

01:10:18 ◼   ► with a 3.5 millimeter jack.

01:10:21 ◼   ► I really couldn't.

01:10:22 ◼   ► I used to, I feel like I had hundreds of them.

01:10:27 ◼   ► Because it's like with review units,

01:10:30 ◼   ► Apple doesn't want the headphones back.

01:10:32 ◼   ► They've never actually told me this,

01:10:33 ◼   ► but they don't, I send the phones back,

01:10:36 ◼   ► I don't send the headphones back.

01:10:38 ◼   ► 'Cause what are they gonna do with old, gross headphones?

01:10:41 ◼   ► So I had headphones from every iPad, or iPod, I'm sorry,

01:10:47 ◼   ► iPod. Those are long gone though. But in recent years, when Apple was still shipping iPhones

01:10:53 ◼   ► with a traditional headphone jack, I'd buy myself a phone every year. I would get a review

01:10:59 ◼   ► unit starting with like around the iPhone 4 with Verizon. And then as the years went

01:11:05 ◼   ► on, they'd started, you know, I'd get two review units because I'd have the big

01:11:08 ◼   ► one and a small one. So I get like three a year and my wife would get a new iPhone every

01:11:12 ◼   ► year. So we were like accumulating and my son has, you know, doesn't get an iPhone every year,

01:11:17 ◼   ► but he had a couple. We had a whole stockpile surplus of Apple. And my son has systematically

01:11:24 ◼   ► destroyed them all. Just destroyed them by watching, using them to watch YouTube on his

01:11:35 ◼   ► MacBook or and or I guess sometimes plugging them into his phone.

01:11:41 ◼   ► My wife has gone through a few because those AirPods, the old wired AirPods were notoriously

01:11:48 ◼   ► not sweat proof and she destroyed some by using them at the gym. And at our old house,

01:11:57 ◼   ► we had kitchen chairs. Again, I don't know why the hell we didn't just throw the damn chairs out,

01:12:01 ◼   ► but we had these kitchen chairs with two things that stuck up off the back, sort of like a school

01:12:07 ◼   ► size chair and they had two things that stuck up the back that the only function of them

01:12:13 ◼   ► was to snag headphone cables. And it would hurt. It would be like a big drop out of your

01:12:18 ◼   ► ear. So she broke a few pairs. But it's my son who's the main culprit. And I didn't even

01:12:24 ◼   ► realize this and I would just every time he'd like run low and see like, Dad, I need you

01:12:28 ◼   ► know, do you have any extra headphones and I go down my office and find, you know, go

01:12:32 ◼   ► through my old iPhone boxes and yet they were I could open any and there was a time when

01:12:36 ◼   ► I could open any of those boxes and there it is inside a brand new, you know, never

01:12:41 ◼   ► used pair of Apple Air pods or ear pods. I went down a couple weeks ago and I started

01:12:50 ◼   ► going through boxes and they're all gone. And I finally found one and it was one of

01:12:53 ◼   ► the ones, remember when they used to ship in a really nice clear plastic case?

01:12:56 ◼   ► Jared Polin Yeah, yeah.

01:12:57 ◼   ► Dave Asprey And I gave them to him and I thought, I wonder

01:13:00 ◼   ► where the rest of mine are. And then I spent some time this week and I realized they're

01:13:03 ◼   ► all gone. And I gave I kind of regret giving him my last pair. It seems like something

01:13:07 ◼   ► I've the pack rat in me wishes I kept one pair, but I went through all these boxes,

01:13:13 ◼   ► dozens and dozens of phone boxes, and they're all gone. So I couldn't I had a hard time.

01:13:18 ◼   ► I actually wound up I didn't even test them with Apple or earbuds I have. Eventually,

01:13:26 ◼   ► it was like, well, stop looking for those and find some other pair of headphones. And

01:13:29 ◼   ► I have an old pair of Shure over the ear ear things that they weren't noise canceling but they

01:13:36 ◼   ► like were sealing so they were like my old years ago airplane ear earpods so I use those anyway

01:13:43 ◼   ► it was a long digression but anyway the point of it was it makes me wonder for all of my affection

01:13:53 ◼   ► for air pods everybody was sort of anticipating that there might be new ones this year yeah and

01:13:57 ◼   ► And I wonder if the holdup is related to air power,

01:14:02 ◼   ► that they don't wanna ship new air pods

01:14:07 ◼   ► without the new case,

01:14:10 ◼   ► but they can't ship a case that advertises wireless charging

01:14:16 ◼   ► with air power, which isn't shipping.

01:14:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, what are you supposed to do, buy a second Mophie

01:14:21 ◼   ► or just put them on the side of your iPad

01:14:22 ◼   ► and hope for the best?

01:14:24 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, I don't think they're gonna charge

01:14:26 ◼   ► on the iPad magnetic part.

01:14:28 ◼   ► I'm almost certain they weren't going to charge,

01:14:31 ◼   ► and Apple was a little vague about this last year,

01:14:33 ◼   ► like what used Qi, the standard, and what was proprietary.

01:14:36 ◼   ► Apple Watch clearly doesn't use Qi.

01:14:38 ◼   ► It uses its own proprietary inductive charging.

01:14:41 ◼   ► - It's Qi Plus, it's like Qi Plus,

01:14:43 ◼   ► you can, I've had some people fool it

01:14:45 ◼   ► by putting special magnets with a Qi charger,

01:14:48 ◼   ► but it is cheap, it's sort of like Qi Plus Plus or something.

01:14:51 ◼   ► - I get that, and I do remember talking to people

01:14:54 ◼   ► Apple about it. And you know, they're never going to like, they're not going to explain

01:14:58 ◼   ► it. They're not going to tell you exactly what's in the secret sauce. But yeah, the

01:15:02 ◼   ► idea that it was cheap plus was sort of the explanation and even publicly, I think when

01:15:08 ◼   ► when Schiller introduced it, he even said that, you know, look, we're using the cheese

01:15:12 ◼   ► standard. We've come we want to do things the cheese standard doesn't support. And so

01:15:17 ◼   ► we've we've made these but we want to contribute those things back to the standards group.

01:15:23 ◼   ► You know that they weren't hope they weren't trying to keep it proprietary

01:15:27 ◼   ► they just needed to do things that had to be proprietary because the

01:15:30 ◼   ► Sticking to the standards wouldn't wouldn't allow it to work. So I can't help but think though that the the lightning

01:15:36 ◼   ► Are not lightning the the non lightning the air pods that charge

01:15:40 ◼   ► Inductively we're not using the Chi standard that it would be like the watch like Chi plus because I don't think something that small can use

01:15:47 ◼   ► the Chi standard

01:15:49 ◼   ► Yeah

01:15:51 ◼   ► But anyway, it makes me wonder this thing. Isn't that crazy though?

01:15:53 ◼   ► They think that the air pods have been held up by a totally unrelated not unrelated. But yeah, totally separate

01:15:58 ◼   ► I mean, I who knows I don't know well then but if they shipped air pods, too

01:16:02 ◼   ► And then three months later shipped air power need to buy new case for your pods, too

01:16:07 ◼   ► And the people get upset again. Yeah. Well, and did you see that there was a rumor this week that

01:16:12 ◼   ► Somebody some supply chain leaker who had a photo of a bunch supposedly new air pod cases. Yeah

01:16:19 ◼   ► Says that it's still gonna ship in 2018 the air air pod - yeah

01:16:24 ◼   ► I mean again like we've had December stuff, but it's just rare and I think it's super inconvenient for holiday shoppers

01:16:29 ◼   ► Well, yeah, and you know and I said, you know, I pointed out that like hey a lot of people I've already started buying gifts

01:16:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it goes into high gear the day after Thanksgiving next week. That's Black Friday

01:16:40 ◼   ► You know the day when people go absolutely nuts buying stuff. So

01:16:45 ◼   ► How many you know, I don't know millions

01:16:48 ◼   ► I don't know if millions might be too big a number but hundreds and hundreds of thousands of

01:16:51 ◼   ► AirPods will be purchased and then if Apple comes out with new ones in December

01:16:56 ◼   ► I mean and people point out well, you know, they have a very generous holiday

01:17:01 ◼   ► return policy, you know where you can buy a holiday gift for somebody in mid-november and

01:17:07 ◼   ► They don't because they don't get it till you know, December 25th or something like that

01:17:11 ◼   ► that they can take it back in January

01:17:13 ◼   ► and there's no questions asked.

01:17:15 ◼   ► So anybody who got old AirPods and new AirPods come out

01:17:19 ◼   ► could exchange them, but that's a pain in the butt, right?

01:17:22 ◼   ► I mean, nobody likes, like, you know, here's your cool--

01:17:26 ◼   ► - It's expensive for Apple.

01:17:27 ◼   ► - Right, it's very expensive for Apple.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Like why would Apple want to do this?

01:17:31 ◼   ► Why would they want angry customers

01:17:32 ◼   ► and why would they want to deal with the expense

01:17:34 ◼   ► of all these return things?

01:17:35 ◼   ► Like in theory, if they could have shipped

01:17:38 ◼   ► a new second generation AirPods this year, the latest I think they could have done it

01:17:44 ◼   ► would be to announce them at the end of October event and say whether they were ready to ship

01:17:49 ◼   ► at that moment or not, say they're coming in the next few weeks and then everybody would

01:17:54 ◼   ► know to wait. And if sales of existing AirPods plummet because everybody's waiting, it's

01:18:02 ◼   ► all good because Apple is going to get the money when they buy them when they shipped

01:18:06 ◼   ► anyway. So it doesn't matter.

01:18:07 ◼   ► - And Apple would have known that,

01:18:08 ◼   ► and they would have ramped down hard

01:18:09 ◼   ► on AirPod production in preparation for it.

01:18:11 ◼   ► - Right, I just can't help but think that,

01:18:12 ◼   ► and you can't help but think that they would have had them

01:18:15 ◼   ► ready to give to reviewers too,

01:18:17 ◼   ► 'cause like, you know, back when the original AirPod shipped

01:18:20 ◼   ► they had prototype AirPods,

01:18:22 ◼   ► they didn't look like prototypes, they looked identical.

01:18:25 ◼   ► But, or pre-production I guess would be a better way

01:18:29 ◼   ► to put it, not prototype.

01:18:30 ◼   ► Pre-production AirPods that looked like the production ones,

01:18:33 ◼   ► but the production ones weren't ready,

01:18:34 ◼   ► but they gave them to us to review,

01:18:36 ◼   ► in September. They would have done that too, I would think.

01:18:40 ◼   ► And there's a huge, it doesn't look like there's any lack of supply. There's a huge supply

01:18:44 ◼   ► and a bunch of different discounts at different retailers. So they look, they look stocked

01:18:48 ◼   ► for the holidays. So I, it just seems to me like people, and I just know it, I asked on

01:18:52 ◼   ► Twitter weeks ago, months ago, I forget what at this point, like, hey, you know, the quick

01:18:56 ◼   ► Twitter poll, how many people are thinking about buying AirPods, either your first pair

01:19:01 ◼   ► or a new pair but aren't because you're holding off for a next generation. And it was, you know,

01:19:07 ◼   ► my followers are not really indicative of the world at large, but at least among my followers,

01:19:13 ◼   ► yeah, there were like lots and lots of people who were like, yeah, that's me.

01:19:15 ◼   ► I either want to get my first pair or I need to buy a replacement pair. And I'm waiting and

01:19:23 ◼   ► they're waiting and waiting and waiting. Yeah, it's a very weird situation for a terrific,

01:19:30 ◼   ► terrific product, right? I feel like it's in this weird Neverland. And I can't and it popped into

01:19:37 ◼   ► my head this week as something to really think about because of the joy of charging the pencil

01:19:42 ◼   ► wirelessly. Yeah, like charging the AirPods isn't onerous, right? Because I have lightning cables

01:19:50 ◼   ► all over the place. And so you just stick them into lightning every once in a while when you

01:19:53 ◼   ► think about it. But man, having a mat where you could put them would be even better because then

01:19:59 ◼   ► and they'd always be charged.

01:20:00 ◼   ► - It's sort of, this is a complete tangent,

01:20:02 ◼   ► but I keep getting asked, is it safe to buy iMacs?

01:20:04 ◼   ► Is it safe to buy it before September?

01:20:06 ◼   ► No, is it safe to buy it before October

01:20:08 ◼   ► because people want a new iMac,

01:20:09 ◼   ► but the Coffee Lake ones aren't out yet

01:20:10 ◼   ► and it seems like they could come out at any minute,

01:20:12 ◼   ► so people hesitate and then they wait,

01:20:13 ◼   ► and then when is it finally safe?

01:20:15 ◼   ► 'Cause Apple's not gonna update them

01:20:16 ◼   ► and it just becomes a whole thing.

01:20:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I wouldn't buy an iMac right now.

01:20:20 ◼   ► I probably wouldn't, if I needed it,

01:20:22 ◼   ► I probably wouldn't hesitate to buy an iMac Pro,

01:20:24 ◼   ► even though they're like a year old,

01:20:26 ◼   ► But you know if you need it if you need it you need it. I wouldn't buy a regular iMac though

01:20:30 ◼   ► And xeons are on I think those xeons are still skylight. They're on a whole different schedule. Yeah, it's well intel. Yep

01:20:37 ◼   ► Those poor bastards

01:20:41 ◼   ► I've joked about this, but literally every time I wake I go to sleep

01:20:45 ◼   ► I am afraid that i'll wake up and there'll be a new lake, uh optimization cycle inserted before cannon lake again

01:20:51 ◼   ► I can't there's whiskey lake and amber lake and ice lake. I can't bear to pay attention to it anymore

01:20:57 ◼   ► I really can't it's it doesn't pay to pay attention because it never it never turns out the way that that it said

01:21:04 ◼   ► It's gotten painful. They never hit the road map the road map might as well be like

01:21:09 ◼   ► Map to Mordor in the beginning of the Lord of the Rings. It's fictional

01:21:14 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just made up and they never get there

01:21:19 ◼   ► Anyway, I want to what the other thing I wanted to think about and this popped into my head this week is with you were

01:21:24 ◼   ► Talking about watch bands before yeah, and my favorite

01:21:28 ◼   ► If I could only use one

01:21:30 ◼   ► Apple watch band if I had to pick one and that's you know

01:21:33 ◼   ► It's never coming off the Apple watch that I wear it would be the woven nylon band

01:21:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I find that to be the best combination of comfortable and I like the way it looks I like the way it feels

01:21:44 ◼   ► I like everything about it

01:21:46 ◼   ► It's the track pants of watch bands. I just I love it. I just love I know and I'm a fan of you know, NATO style

01:21:52 ◼   ► Yeah, watch straps on my you know, traditional watches - I just like the look

01:21:57 ◼   ► But curiously to me in the fall

01:22:01 ◼   ► 2018

01:22:03 ◼   ► You know fashion lineup of new watch straps the woven nylon ones are out of the lineup

01:22:09 ◼   ► You can buy them but they're like, you know, like secondhand stuff on eBay or whatever

01:22:14 ◼   ► The loops are still there, but the buckles are all gone. Yep, so that they've seemingly at the

01:22:20 ◼   ► sporty

01:22:23 ◼   ► Sporty end of the market other than the you know that the

01:22:27 ◼   ► The trip what would you mark the new some sport? Yeah spanned

01:22:32 ◼   ► the rubber

01:22:34 ◼   ► Rubberly default ban for elastomer floral elastomer. I thank you for thinking that um, you know the one that is the iconic Apple watch strap

01:22:44 ◼   ► The sport loop I think is what they call it the velcro one is the yes, that's the that's you know

01:22:50 ◼   ► And it's been alright, you know, they came out with that last year

01:22:52 ◼   ► But at this point it is sort of like the at the sporty end of apples lineup. That's that's that's the one

01:22:59 ◼   ► At the premium end

01:23:03 ◼   ► ignoring the

01:23:05 ◼   ► Hermes stuff at the premium end

01:23:07 ◼   ► I

01:23:08 ◼   ► Feel like the one that's the most popular and I also feel like Apple is pushing it and I feel like they're pushing

01:23:14 ◼   ► it because it's popular is the Milanese loop. And I just happen to see it. When I

01:23:20 ◼   ► see somebody with a stainless steel Apple watch, more often than not, male or female,

01:23:26 ◼   ► it's often with the Milanese. It seems very popular. My wife swears by it, absolutely

01:23:32 ◼   ► adores the Milanese. The curious thing to me, though, is with the Milanese and the velcro

01:23:40 ◼   ► sport loop. They're both closed loops. So when you take them off, they remain a loop,

01:23:48 ◼   ► which I think wouldn't work with air power as described. Like air power to me was described

01:23:55 ◼   ► as you'd have to put the watch, you know, the way that you know, the back ceramic back

01:24:00 ◼   ► of the watch has to touch the pad. Yeah. So I find that very curious that the the watch

01:24:06 ◼   ► straps that Apple is pushing the most this year are seemingly ones that are not compatible with

01:24:11 ◼   ► using it with the AirPower. Yeah, and there was no indication. Like when Apple put out the previous

01:24:17 ◼   ► charger, they had a—you could always get the cable that came with the watch, but they made their own

01:24:21 ◼   ► charging disk, and you could push up the middle of it to become vertical so you could put the loops

01:24:25 ◼   ► on, and this one had no such provisions. Right, right. And that's—in fact, we have one in our

01:24:30 ◼   ► our bedroom because like I said, my wife is a devoted fan of the Milanese and it's having

01:24:36 ◼   ► that pad that has the pop-up thing so you can put it on sideways is the only way to

01:24:41 ◼   ► do it. And you know me, I actually have it on today, the link bracelet, which Apple seemingly

01:24:49 ◼   ► has sort of quietly—I don't think they've ever discontinued it. You can still buy it,

01:24:56 ◼   ► but they've de-emphasized it.

01:24:58 ◼   ► Yeah, and they didn't make the gold version like they did for the Milanese. No, there is no there is no gold

01:25:04 ◼   ► Yeah, there's a there's a the whatever the 2018 gold shade is

01:25:08 ◼   ► 2018 Apple gold stainless steel has a Milanese and does not have a corresponding link bracelet

01:25:15 ◼   ► Yeah, so I don't know what the deal is with that

01:25:17 ◼   ► But the link bracelet certainly wouldn't work on the airpower without disconnecting the link

01:25:23 ◼   ► You know, you there's it's not too tricky to do. It's part of the genius of Apple's link design

01:25:28 ◼   ► that you can break out of the loop,

01:25:30 ◼   ► but you don't wanna do that every day.

01:25:33 ◼   ► - Well, I have the Cuff,

01:25:34 ◼   ► well, the first Hermes watch that came with the Cuff,

01:25:36 ◼   ► and that was only out for the first generation,

01:25:38 ◼   ► and they haven't repeated it.

01:25:39 ◼   ► And unless you use the cable charger,

01:25:41 ◼   ► you can't put it on the disc

01:25:42 ◼   ► because there's too much leather,

01:25:44 ◼   ► and you can't put it on the stand.

01:25:46 ◼   ► It just doesn't work anyway,

01:25:46 ◼   ► and I'd have to pull it off every time.

01:25:48 ◼   ► And I think that's probably why they didn't continue it.

01:25:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, it just sort of seems like the balance between,

01:25:55 ◼   ► hey, we have some cool ideas for bands and straps,

01:25:58 ◼   ► and we have certain needs for how to charge this thing

01:26:03 ◼   ► haven't always been compatible, is basically what I see.

01:26:08 ◼   ► And the other thought that pops into my head is,

01:26:10 ◼   ► and I know, I don't think AirPower is secretly

01:26:13 ◼   ► better than it was promised, I'm sure.

01:26:16 ◼   ► I mean, this is years in the future.

01:26:18 ◼   ► But my pet bugaboo about calling inductive charging

01:26:22 ◼   ► wireless charging when it has to be in contact,

01:26:25 ◼   ► Whereas in theory, true wireless charging,

01:26:28 ◼   ► where the charging would work the way that Wi-Fi

01:26:31 ◼   ► is truly wireless networking,

01:26:33 ◼   ► would be fantastic for the watch.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Again, even if the range was just six inches,

01:26:40 ◼   ► that would be great though.

01:26:41 ◼   ► You could just put a charger on your drawer,

01:26:44 ◼   ► your dresser or something like that,

01:26:45 ◼   ► and then just put the watch within a foot

01:26:47 ◼   ► or something like that and have it charged,

01:26:48 ◼   ► that would be fantastic.

01:26:50 ◼   ► - I mean, Qualcomm, a bunch of companies

01:26:52 ◼   ► have patents for that, just like they have patents

01:26:53 ◼   ► for inductive charging through metal,

01:26:55 ◼   ► having a patent and actually getting a product on market that works. So different.

01:26:59 ◼   ► Yeah. Don't you think too, I would like to think that if, if air power ever actually does ship,

01:27:06 ◼   ► I would like to think that the Apple pencil could charge on it too, but maybe not.

01:27:09 ◼   ► I was wondering about that. Yeah.

01:27:11 ◼   ► Right. But maybe not because of the magnets. Like, I don't think air power has the magnets,

01:27:16 ◼   ► but I guess they're somehow getting over that with the watch. Right. The watch.

01:27:20 ◼   ► Yeah. You know, that's probably the complexity is that they need to,

01:27:23 ◼   ► it's not just that they have to take three very different power profiles, but three different

01:27:27 ◼   ► connection methodologies. Right. Yeah. And you know, with the watch chargers, whether it's

01:27:33 ◼   ► sustained, you know, they're all the same, the actual charging part, whether it's the pad or,

01:27:38 ◼   ► you know, the just the circle, the disk at the end of a cable, they all precisely align, you connect

01:27:44 ◼   ► it, you know, you get it near the back of your watch, and the magnet snap it right into place

01:27:48 ◼   ► perfectly. And when you put the pencil on top of your iPad, it snaps perfectly in the place,

01:27:53 ◼   ► it wants to be in the right position. So that's all back arrays. They're just so happy with those.

01:27:58 ◼   ► It's like Death Star tractor beams. I don't know how they, but if all these things need these

01:28:03 ◼   ► tractor beams to get the magnetic tractor beams to get everything precisely aligned,

01:28:07 ◼   ► I have no idea how air power was ever going to work. Like I honestly, I don't have any real

01:28:12 ◼   ► inside info on this other than whispers that boy, this product, this product has had a lot of

01:28:18 ◼   ► problems and should not have been promised when it was—it wasn't in a state to be

01:28:25 ◼   ► delivered when they thought it was going to be. Somebody gave a very optimistic estimation

01:28:29 ◼   ► of, "Ah, we've got the X, Y, and Z problems to solve, but we can do it. We're Apple."

01:28:34 ◼   ► And X, Y, and Z were really hard problems.

01:28:36 ◼   ► Ben de la Torre-E

01:28:43 ◼   ► Yes, the magnetics and the but you can only put two phones you couldn't put three phones

01:28:47 ◼   ► Which I guess was a limit of the power of the overall device. Yes. I believe that was true too. Yes

01:28:51 ◼   ► Yeah, and it was opposed to just have the different size coils and positioning so that you didn't have to be too fussy with the

01:28:57 ◼   ► Phones but the watch and the cases would adjust would lock into place

01:29:01 ◼   ► But that anything that you're not in charge of implementing is super easy to do

01:29:05 ◼   ► Yeah, it's probably all fell apart in the actual implementation. Yeah, so I don't know

01:29:09 ◼   ► I don't know what the heck is going I think it's such a weird

01:29:11 ◼   ► And if they had never announced it if they had just never announced air power

01:29:15 ◼   ► I feel like people would feel so much better about buying like new air pods today

01:29:19 ◼   ► Even though I know I know there are other features that are supposedly coming to new air pods like noise cancellation and and always on

01:29:27 ◼   ► Hey Siri listening, so you don't have to tap your ears, you know, I'm sure there's all sorts of cool ideas

01:29:32 ◼   ► They could have for air pods. It's not just the charging case, but I feel like it's that charging case

01:29:36 ◼   ► That's keeping people from buying air pods now

01:29:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:29:39 ◼   ► - And I think you heard this too,

01:29:40 ◼   ► but my understanding was it was supposed to be

01:29:42 ◼   ► like this Halo product, the same way that AirPods were

01:29:45 ◼   ► with the lack of a 3.5 millimeter headphone jack

01:29:47 ◼   ► to show Apple's commitment, like a little bit of strutting,

01:29:50 ◼   ► but to show their commitment to the technology.

01:29:52 ◼   ► And this was supposed to highlight

01:29:54 ◼   ► that they were doing inductive charging,

01:29:56 ◼   ► but they were super committed to not only doing it,

01:29:58 ◼   ► but making it useful and pushing it forward.

01:30:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, no, I heard that too.

01:30:02 ◼   ► It is one of the strangest products in my career

01:30:07 ◼   ► following Apple, just in terms of how weird it is for them to announce something and then

01:30:12 ◼   ► be unable to ship it. I mean, even the only other thing I can think of that was quite

01:30:15 ◼   ► like this was the white iPod iPhone 4. Yeah. Was it the iPhone 4 or the 3GS? I think it

01:30:21 ◼   ► was the 4. The 4, yeah, because they couldn't get the glass, it was obstructing the sensors.

01:30:27 ◼   ► Yeah, it was very strange and it ended up not shipping until, like, that was when the

01:30:32 ◼   ► phones were coming out at WWDC in June, or at least they were announced there and then

01:30:36 ◼   ► they'd ship it like the end of June,

01:30:38 ◼   ► and it didn't even come out until like May.

01:30:40 ◼   ► So it was like six weeks before people thought

01:30:43 ◼   ► maybe the iPhone 4S would come out.

01:30:45 ◼   ► Now the iPhone 4S didn't come out in June of that year

01:30:48 ◼   ► because that was the one that changed to a fall schedule.

01:30:52 ◼   ► But still, 11 months after it was announced

01:30:55 ◼   ► is a very strange delay.

01:30:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, the only other thing I can think of

01:30:58 ◼   ► is when Steve Jobs did that statement about the Intel Switch

01:31:01 ◼   ► when he said, "We've wanted to be able to give you

01:31:02 ◼   ► "the Power Mac with the G4,

01:31:04 ◼   ► We wanted to be able to give you the power book with the G4 and we just haven't been

01:31:08 ◼   ► able to do it.

01:31:09 ◼   ► All right, moving on.

01:31:10 ◼   ► How about this?

01:31:12 ◼   ► The iPad OS argument in terms of—and this—Merlin and I talked about it last week on this show,

01:31:22 ◼   ► and there's a lot of people who were like, "Yes, everything you guys said is what drives

01:31:25 ◼   ► me nuts.

01:31:26 ◼   ► This OS is just not meant for multitasking."

01:31:31 ◼   ► And you know, like, Steven Troughton Smith, who loves the iPad and multitasking, like

01:31:35 ◼   ► tweeted, he was listening to our show and just felt like he was listening to two guys

01:31:40 ◼   ► from 20 years ago talk about how the, you know, gooey is never going to take over the

01:31:43 ◼   ► command line. And I get it. And that's why I try not to be, I really try to keep as open

01:31:49 ◼   ► to mind as I can. But man, the more I dig into it, the more frustrated I get with multitasking

01:31:55 ◼   ► on the iPad. There are some crazy, crazy things. And again, I'm coming out from the perspective

01:32:01 ◼   ► someone who generally is thinking about it with at least when I'm multitasking when I have two things

01:32:05 ◼   ► on screen it's with a keyboard I'm using too and the way command tab works on the ipad is insane

01:32:11 ◼   ► it is it it it it should be as an operating system interface it should be committed it is it is

01:32:17 ◼   ► insane like but like all right so if you have messages on screen full screen and then you go

01:32:24 ◼   ► to your dock and you drag notes out of the dock to do multitasking and you make it a split screen

01:32:30 ◼   ► thing and now you've got messages on one side and notes on the other. When you go to Command

01:32:34 ◼   ► Tab, Notes doesn't show up in the Command Tab switcher because you didn't tap it to

01:32:40 ◼   ► launch it. You dragged it out of the dock into multitasking. So it doesn't register

01:32:46 ◼   ► in the Command Tab switcher. You go to Command Tab, here's a list of your most recently used

01:32:51 ◼   ► apps and the one you just opened, Notes, the one you might have just been typing in right

01:32:56 ◼   ► now the one that might currently have input focus from the keyboard doesn't show up. It's

01:33:00 ◼   ► insane. It's absolutely insane. It's not a bug. It seems like a bug, but you watch it.

01:33:09 ◼   ► It's deterministic. It's because you didn't tap it to launch it. It's because you dragged

01:33:13 ◼   ► it out of the dock. But that's insane. It's a huge oversight. It's not a bug, but it's

01:33:19 ◼   ► a huge oversight. And there's a completely different app switcher when you use your finger

01:33:25 ◼   ► and drag up and go to the overview where…

01:33:29 ◼   ► It's like mission control.

01:33:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:33:33 ◼   ► It's insane that there's one switcher for using your finger to swipe up to get to

01:33:41 ◼   ► and a completely different switcher in a completely different order when you do Command-Tab.

01:33:46 ◼   ► Command-Tab should obviously bring up the same thing you get when you swipe up from

01:33:51 ◼   ► the bottom.

01:33:52 ◼   ► It's insane.

01:33:53 ◼   ► You could just see like a so I there's this huge problem in tech support and I've talked about this before is that people tend to

01:33:59 ◼   ► Tell you solutions

01:33:59 ◼   ► They want rather than problems that they have and you might have way better ways of solving their problems than just listening to their endless

01:34:05 ◼   ► List of solutions and this is sort of that just like, you know, let's just give the computer people command tab

01:34:10 ◼   ► You know, they're used to it from the Mac. We'll just do it and that's always the wrong answer

01:34:13 ◼   ► And yeah, it's super frustrating when it takes three years for copy/paste and ten years effectively for drag-and-drop

01:34:19 ◼   ► But when they actually do go in and take the same problem and come to an iPad native solution

01:34:26 ◼   ► It always works better than when they try to transplant something from the Mac into iOS

01:34:30 ◼   ► And there's all sorts of ways like sometimes if you have

01:34:34 ◼   ► Keyboard focus in an app and then you command tab away and then you command tab back the focus sometimes sometimes it's still there

01:34:42 ◼   ► And sometimes it's gone and you have to tap again where you want to be typing like that's insane

01:34:47 ◼   ► It is you can't just change focus like if you're on the keyboard

01:34:50 ◼   ► There's no way to change focus between the two apps that you're using. No

01:34:53 ◼   ► Even though they're both right there. Yeah, it is so clearly

01:34:57 ◼   ► It makes a lot of sense when you're hand holding the iPad and you're entirely using the touchscreen. Yeah, it makes some sense

01:35:06 ◼   ► I don't think it's a great multitasking system. I don't think the interface for having two things on screen once is

01:35:12 ◼   ► That I don't like it

01:35:14 ◼   ► I really hope Apple has these rumors that iOS 12 was going to have a major iPad interface

01:35:23 ◼   ► change for power users, and it got scuttled on the basis of, "Hey, let's just focus

01:35:27 ◼   ► iOS 12 on being faster and more stable and punt a year on this."

01:35:33 ◼   ► There's rampant rumors that that was true.

01:35:36 ◼   ► So I know every podcast in the universe is talking about their ideas, their hopes for

01:35:40 ◼   ► …

01:35:41 ◼   ► Well, the engineers that you would imagine would be working on that were retasked to

01:35:43 ◼   ► to work on the performance and they can't do both

01:35:45 ◼   ► at the same time.

01:35:46 ◼   ► - So, you know, who knows what they have in mind.

01:35:48 ◼   ► My hope would be that this would be a lot more

01:35:50 ◼   ► of a rethink than just adding more on.

01:35:54 ◼   ► I really kind of, I would like to,

01:35:56 ◼   ► but on the other hand, I know there's people who love it,

01:35:59 ◼   ► say they love it, at least the way it is,

01:36:01 ◼   ► and you can't yank that away, I don't think?

01:36:04 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, they've changed so many,

01:36:06 ◼   ► they completely changed the way that it worked.

01:36:08 ◼   ► I think it was an iOS 10 and people had no idea

01:36:10 ◼   ► how to pull apps onto the side anymore.

01:36:12 ◼   ► So I think it's new enough

01:36:13 ◼   ► that you can still mess around with it.

01:36:15 ◼   ► But getting it to that point for me is super interesting

01:36:20 ◼   ► because when they did the Apple Watch,

01:36:22 ◼   ► they didn't just transplant springboard.

01:36:24 ◼   ► I mean, they made the carousel interface,

01:36:27 ◼   ► but that's been buried over time.

01:36:28 ◼   ► And it's sort of like you can't take the expectations

01:36:33 ◼   ► you have from an iPhone

01:36:33 ◼   ► and just put them on every device size.

01:36:35 ◼   ► And with the Apple TV, yeah, it still has that,

01:36:38 ◼   ► I forget what they call it, pine board or headboard

01:36:41 ◼   ► that looks like icons, but really they're moving you

01:36:43 ◼   ► towards the TV app interface, because that's better.

01:36:46 ◼   ► And the iPod is the worst offender with this

01:36:48 ◼   ► in that it really did just have a big iPhone interface

01:36:51 ◼   ► when it's clearly not suited to the big screen

01:36:53 ◼   ► and it hasn't had the benefit

01:36:55 ◼   ► of getting its own interface layer the way the watch has

01:36:57 ◼   ► or the TV has and it feels past due.

01:36:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, it really does.

01:37:01 ◼   ► And when you have a keyboard connected,

01:37:04 ◼   ► to me it really shows.

01:37:05 ◼   ► It can be very, very frustrating at times

01:37:08 ◼   ► with the inability to control input focus

01:37:13 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:37:14 ◼   ► - Just give me like Quicksilver or Alfred

01:37:16 ◼   ► where I type tweet @JohnGruber at lunch today,

01:37:20 ◼   ► and it just does it all.

01:37:21 ◼   ► I mean, like Palm's had that, Blackberry's had that.

01:37:23 ◼   ► It's an understandable paradigm.

01:37:26 ◼   ► - It is true.

01:37:26 ◼   ► Spotlight is a lifesaver for launching apps on the iPad

01:37:30 ◼   ► because you can't, you still can't,

01:37:31 ◼   ► like they do have a command H.

01:37:33 ◼   ► I think that this is follow-up from a couple of weeks ago.

01:37:35 ◼   ► I think I might've misspoken on the show

01:37:37 ◼   ► and said that there's no way to go home on a keyboard.

01:37:40 ◼   ► Except for some of these third-party keyboards

01:37:42 ◼   ► that have a home button.

01:37:43 ◼   ► Like some of the third-party keyboards have an actual,

01:37:45 ◼   ► like old school, you know,

01:37:47 ◼   ► remember when iPhones had home buttons?

01:37:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:37:50 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:37:50 ◼   ► - They have a home button, but Command + H works.

01:37:53 ◼   ► If not everywhere, it should work everywhere

01:37:57 ◼   ► in terms of you can always go home.

01:37:58 ◼   ► But then once you go home and you're on the keyboard,

01:38:00 ◼   ► there's nothing you can do.

01:38:01 ◼   ► You can't arrow around to select icons.

01:38:04 ◼   ► - And again, like there's focus UI on the Apple TV

01:38:07 ◼   ► that lets you use a Siri remote to select things on iOS,

01:38:10 ◼   ► but where it would make sense on the iPad, it's not there.

01:38:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, it really would to me is to be able to go home

01:38:17 ◼   ► and then what I would like to be able to do

01:38:19 ◼   ► is make it a lot more like the Finder,

01:38:21 ◼   ► where you can, maybe by default you go home,

01:38:24 ◼   ► there is no selection,

01:38:26 ◼   ► but then as soon as you start touching arrow keys,

01:38:28 ◼   ► it would make a selection and it would make the selection

01:38:30 ◼   ► by popping it up off the screen like Apple TV.

01:38:34 ◼   ► And then you could go left to go left across the grid,

01:38:36 ◼   ► you could go down to go down,

01:38:39 ◼   ► and then you could type the first letter of an app

01:38:41 ◼   ► that's on screen right now, and it would jump to that app.

01:38:44 ◼   ► So if I type P, it would highlight PCALC,

01:38:48 ◼   ► and it would pop off the screen.

01:38:50 ◼   ► Like, I don't understand why you can't do that.

01:38:52 ◼   ► Like the Mac--

01:38:53 ◼   ► - Or like they have the minus one home screen,

01:38:54 ◼   ► they've had it for a while in iOS,

01:38:56 ◼   ► when you swipe to the side, and it's got a text field

01:38:58 ◼   ► where you can start typing search terms,

01:39:00 ◼   ► it's got machine learned app recommendations,

01:39:02 ◼   ► which are likely the apps you're gonna wanna use,

01:39:04 ◼   ► and it's got a bunch of informational widgets

01:39:06 ◼   ► represent you with the things that it believes are the most important right now. And it feels

01:39:10 ◼   ► like if you just start sliding that over to be the default home screen and let me page

01:39:14 ◼   ► over to a set of apps if I really want to, I would be a lot faster on the iPad.

01:39:18 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu: Yeah. So the interface that does work best with the keyboard is Command + Space

01:39:23 ◼   ► to go to Spotlight because you can just start typing and you can use the arrow keys afterwards

01:39:29 ◼   ► to select things from the results. So if I do command space and type S-A-F, I get Safari.

01:39:36 ◼   ► So, you know, so you could type your shortcut names right into there and just start executing

01:39:41 ◼   ► things. Spot. Yeah, that would be nice. That would be like the modern command line. Yeah.

01:39:46 ◼   ► So spotlight is very nicely hooked up to the keyboard, but it only just exacerbates how much

01:39:53 ◼   ► else of the OS isn't. It all feels very tacked on, in my opinion. It needs a lot of love.

01:40:01 ◼   ► And it really shouldn't feel like a big iPhone. And we're too many years into this, right?

01:40:12 ◼   ► There's no excuse because the iPad's still new or whatever. It's not new. I mean, for God's sake,

01:40:19 ◼   ► Steve Jobs showed it off. I mean, it's eight years old. When the Mac was eight years old,

01:40:26 ◼   ► it was 1992, and the Mac had an incredibly rich ecosystem of apps and industries like

01:40:34 ◼   ► the entire graphic design industry had to—in eight years, the entire graphic design industry

01:40:40 ◼   ► and printing industry had completely switched to a Macintosh-based workflow for designers

01:40:48 ◼   ► to printing and, you know, whole industries went around it and the interface conventions

01:40:56 ◼   ► were the same. Like, it wasn't like, oh, but to get powerful stuff like Photoshop and Illustrator

01:41:02 ◼   ► and Quark, we've got to really rethink the OS at a fundamental level. No, the OS at a

01:41:07 ◼   ► fundamental level was exactly the same as 1984. I mean, they added the issues, but the

01:41:13 ◼   ► basic concepts were the same.

01:41:15 ◼   ► I think one of the issues is Apple TV has a whole org under any queue that just works on on Apple TV interface and

01:41:21 ◼   ► Watch has a whole group of people under

01:41:24 ◼   ► Jeff Williams and Kevin Lynch that just work on the watch but there is no iPad group effectively

01:41:30 ◼   ► There's no like yes

01:41:31 ◼   ► You are the people in charge of iPhone interface and and springboard and all there's just a springboard team and a lot of the time

01:41:36 ◼   ► Their attention gets sucked into iPhone because that's that's where all the money in the volume is

01:41:40 ◼   ► Yeah, and I wrote about this I really I wrote about it in the context of Apple's quarterly results and how you know

01:41:47 ◼   ► how the Macintosh out

01:41:49 ◼   ► Out revenued to make up over the iPad

01:41:53 ◼   ► you know iPad sold more units, but the Mac made more money and

01:41:57 ◼   ► You know that warms my heart as a guy who's you know favorite platform of all of apples is the Mac

01:42:04 ◼   ► But for all the consternation out there among Mac

01:42:08 ◼   ► people who are worried that quote-unquote Tim Cook wants everybody to just use an iPad for everything and that the Mac is going to be

01:42:15 ◼   ► phased out and the you know

01:42:17 ◼   ► They're just gonna have this one iOS platform and everything will be running, you know

01:42:23 ◼   ► You know the future of the iMac is a giant 30 inch iPad or something for all of that consternation and all of Apple's

01:42:30 ◼   ► Hey, the Mac isn't going anywhere, you know, the big Craig Federighi slide at WWDC. Are we gonna merge these two platforms?

01:42:37 ◼   ► No, right like giant 80-foot letters and a period

01:42:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I I almost feel looking at this and really studying the iPads interface as a you know

01:42:49 ◼   ► Trying to get it trying to be as much of a power user as I can I

01:42:52 ◼   ► Honestly feel if anybody should be worried. It's the iPad people because it's the iPad that's not getting the love

01:42:58 ◼   ► and I know there's so many people who think that Apple doesn't show enough attention to the Mac and and you know, it's the

01:43:04 ◼   ► It's overlooked in favor of the iPhone. I think the iPad has suffered way more from Apple's

01:43:11 ◼   ► Look, the phone is first phone is you know, the most the most money the most users the most important

01:43:16 ◼   ► It's the iPad that suffered more than the Mac because if the Mac has gotten less attention than we might hope

01:43:23 ◼   ► Engineering and design wise it's already good. It doesn't need yeah, it doesn't need major changes. Whereas the iPad really needs help

01:43:32 ◼   ► Conceptually the iPad gets a lot of hardware attention not as much software attention in the max feels vice versa

01:43:37 ◼   ► Right and that that is a perfect that is so true and that is exactly what is like in my head using this remarkable

01:43:45 ◼   ► iPad pro computing device this

01:43:48 ◼   ► This device put aside the user interface the actual hardware is just it continues to just amaze me like I don't I

01:43:56 ◼   ► Worry sometimes if I you know, I don't want to

01:44:01 ◼   ► Be too effusive in a review if if I'm reviewing this thing and it and I feel like man

01:44:07 ◼   ► I just have good things to say about this and my what am I missing? Right?

01:44:10 ◼   ► But it I almost feel like in my review the iPad Pro I undersold how great the hardware is

01:44:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it's only review the hardware and I got a lot of criticism for not having enough negatives

01:44:21 ◼   ► But I think that's because I just didn't touch on the software at all

01:44:23 ◼   ► I touched a little but I sort of brushed it aside

01:44:26 ◼   ► I think I got some of the same criticism too because it just it is what it is. It's not a story

01:44:30 ◼   ► Yeah, iOS 12 didn't change right? It's not new like that's that's the story

01:44:34 ◼   ► is that it didn't get the love that we were hoping it would get in terms of productivity features and

01:44:39 ◼   ► More sensible ways to be able to arrange multiple apps on screen and stuff like that

01:44:44 ◼   ► Because when you think about with the iPhone introduction, yes, they've already introduced the I/O the version of iOS at WWDC

01:44:50 ◼   ► But there's inevitably features that are unique to the hardware that they get announced alongside it and this iPad didn't have that

01:44:57 ◼   ► It's not like it's a brand new iPad with edge judge and we're announcing this new software stuff that goes with it

01:45:01 ◼   ► I I just there's so many little things. I'm so frustrated. I they've overlooked like in a way that on the phone

01:45:06 ◼   ► I just love the new

01:45:08 ◼   ► Gestures for getting around the system. I just love it and I never I never think about it

01:45:14 ◼   ► And the phone on the iPad it's so overloaded in terms of a little bit gets you

01:45:21 ◼   ► You know, I if I'm not being very careful almost like surgically

01:45:26 ◼   ► Approaching how I raised my finger from the bottom of the screen to get exactly what I want

01:45:30 ◼   ► I end up going home when what I wanted to was to bring up the dock. I

01:45:34 ◼   ► I can do it on purpose. Like if you bet me remember that

01:45:39 ◼   ► The actually I wouldn't want to take this bet now that I think about it. But remember the the Tarantino short film in

01:45:46 ◼   ► The the what was that movie where they took place in a hotel and the bet was you could light the guy can light his

01:45:52 ◼   ► Lighter ten times in a row. Otherwise, he'd lose that finger

01:45:55 ◼   ► Yeah

01:45:57 ◼   ► Three rooms was the name of the enemy and Tarantino's

01:46:00 ◼   ► Like what? I want to bet my finger that I could get the doc to come up and not go home

01:46:05 ◼   ► No, I wouldn't know I would bet $100

01:46:08 ◼   ► I would bet that I could if I'm very careful if I got to be as careful as I wanted to

01:46:11 ◼   ► Could I make the iPad doc come up and not go home? Yeah, I just did it very carefully and it was I got it

01:46:19 ◼   ► But when I'm not thinking about it when I just sort of raised my finger a little bit

01:46:23 ◼   ► Which is what my mindset when I'm working when I'm in the flow, right?

01:46:27 ◼   ► I'm always going home when I wanted to just raise the dock and that's

01:46:31 ◼   ► It's not hard to go back

01:46:33 ◼   ► But it's like jarring if you're writing in notes and you're on in the flow and you're writing like a quick one to bring something

01:46:39 ◼   ► Up and then all of a sudden your notes app is gone

01:46:41 ◼   ► It's very healthy you want to get to that mission control screen?

01:46:44 ◼   ► So you got to pull it up and not go home, but then pull it a second time

01:46:47 ◼   ► I still not go home you really it requires surgical precision and that's that's bad

01:46:53 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know how to say it.

01:46:54 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer:** It's massively gesture overloaded.

01:46:56 ◼   ► **

01:47:02 ◼   ► there's two ways to bring up a second app. You can lock it in as like, okay, it's either

01:47:08 ◼   ► half or a third of the screen and it's locked in or it's floating over the other app temporarily.

01:47:16 ◼   ► Sometimes I can just flick that app away and sometimes it's like there's no way to

01:47:20 ◼   ► flick it away. I don't know why. I don't understand. Last time I had the notes up temporarily,

01:47:26 ◼   ► I just flipped it off to the side and it disappeared. Now it won't go away. The only way I can

01:47:31 ◼   ► make it go away is to lock it into the screen permanently and then drag the

01:47:36 ◼   ► divider between the two apps to make it go away. Whereas like to close a window

01:47:40 ◼   ► on the Mac I'm never confused. I just hit command W or I click the red button.

01:47:45 ◼   ► That's it. I don't know. I feel like, I don't know. I feel like everybody should

01:47:52 ◼   ► agree that the iPad needs major UI help for multitasking and serious use and we

01:47:59 ◼   ► can obviously disagree on just what that would be. And it's obviously a big there is no

01:48:06 ◼   ► obvious solution, in my opinion, it's going to require Apple to do what what we like Apple

01:48:10 ◼   ► to do best, which is come up with innovative new user interface ideas.

01:48:15 ◼   ► Jared Ranere: Well, my thing like and I wrote about this back in 2015 is that I just want

01:48:19 ◼   ► there to be a team that does pad OS the way there's a team that does watch OS. I told

01:48:23 ◼   ► him that does because then they have to have deliverables every year. If it's just iOS,

01:48:29 ◼   ► can go back and forth between two different devices, which isn't really fair to either

01:48:32 ◼   ► of them.

01:48:33 ◼   ► Yeah, and that kind of comes back to the point of convergence and that people somehow it

01:48:39 ◼   ► sounds great to say that everything should converge to one OS and it would just look

01:48:45 ◼   ► different whether it's a laptop or a tablet or a phone. That sounds great and it's it

01:48:50 ◼   ► in there's a you know, there's certain appeal to the sound of that idea. But in practice,

01:48:55 ◼   ► I don't think that's ever a good idea.

01:48:57 ◼   ► And if anything, I think they should,

01:48:59 ◼   ► what's the opposite of, they should diverge.

01:49:01 ◼   ► - Diverge.

01:49:02 ◼   ► - Right, I would rather see iPad break off into

01:49:07 ◼   ► pad OS or whatever they would call it, iPad OS,

01:49:10 ◼   ► then continue on the current path.

01:49:13 ◼   ► I would rather--

01:49:14 ◼   ► - And it's not an absolute.

01:49:15 ◼   ► I mean, like, Springboard is just a layer.

01:49:18 ◼   ► Like, Backboard, I believe, is remarkably similar

01:49:20 ◼   ► between the different ones.

01:49:21 ◼   ► Core OS is the same between Mac and iOS on many occasions.

01:49:25 ◼   ► and you can have all this infrastructure

01:49:27 ◼   ► that is identical and compatible and provides continuity

01:49:29 ◼   ► and all the inextensibility and all the features

01:49:31 ◼   ► that you want and then just have a team working

01:49:33 ◼   ► on those presentation layers on top of them.

01:49:35 ◼   ► - And I'm not asking for them to turn the iPad into Mac OS.

01:49:39 ◼   ► There's no point, we already have Mac OS.

01:49:42 ◼   ► And I love, in principle, I love the idea

01:49:46 ◼   ► of not having Windows.

01:49:48 ◼   ► Everything is in a window that,

01:49:50 ◼   ► 'cause Windows, having a bunch of windows on screen

01:49:52 ◼   ► can get fiddly and they don't quite line up neatly. The way that, effectively a tiling

01:50:00 ◼   ► system where everything is either full screen or half screen or a third screen and it's

01:50:05 ◼   ► all nice and neat and everything is full height and you don't have, it's like look, here's

01:50:09 ◼   ► a window that's about 20 pixels too short to be full height. I guess I'll fix it because

01:50:15 ◼   ► I want, you know, this minor, you know, low-grade OCD wants the extra, you know, pixels. It's

01:50:22 ◼   ► nice that everything snaps into place, you know, in principle. In practice, boy, it's

01:50:28 ◼   ► tough to beat a windowing system.

01:50:29 ◼   ► Steve McLaughlin I would just argue that, like, a lot of people

01:50:32 ◼   ► just want to solve iPad by, like, they just say, "Just give it finder," and they want

01:50:36 ◼   ► to, they are Mac users whose only conception or understanding of how to improve the iPad

01:50:41 ◼   ► is because they're Mac users, so that's entire frame of reference. But the best thing

01:50:44 ◼   ► about iPad to me is that it eschews the baggage of OS X. It keeps a lot of the foundational

01:50:50 ◼   ► parts, but it's a fresh start to computing because there were a lot of really bad decisions

01:50:54 ◼   ► that were made in Unix over the years because the people building it were computer scientists

01:50:58 ◼   ► and not human interface people.

01:51:00 ◼   ► And for most people, I think one of the biggest problems we had at the iPad event, at the

01:51:06 ◼   ► October event, is that Apple put up this slide of iPad sales versus laptop sales. And a bunch

01:51:11 ◼   ► of people said, "Oh, look, it is a laptop," instead of saying, "Oh, look, how many people

01:51:15 ◼   ► are buying the iPad because it is not a laptop."

01:51:17 ◼   ► There's this huge market of people for whom computers are still crypto-crazy stuff that

01:51:23 ◼   ► they just cannot relate to.

01:51:24 ◼   ► It's good that we're rethinking all these things.

01:51:27 ◼   ► It's just we're rethinking them way too slowly.

01:51:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:51:30 ◼   ► I feel like the iPad is best for the most people, to be honest, but I think it's at

01:51:36 ◼   ► its best when it's used the most simply.

01:51:39 ◼   ► My wife is a devout iPad user, spends way more time on her iPad than phone and Mac combined.

01:51:47 ◼   ► And she doesn't even know how multitasking works.

01:51:49 ◼   ► I mean, she lives with me.

01:51:50 ◼   ► She knows it is a thing and she has no interest in it.

01:51:52 ◼   ► She goes home, she wants to do mail, she taps mail, mail takes up the full screen.

01:51:57 ◼   ► She wants to go back to Safari.

01:51:59 ◼   ► And she goes home and taps Safari and goes to Safari.

01:52:03 ◼   ► And that simplicity, the way I see people and I know, I know that, you know, Steven

01:52:09 ◼   ► Transmits probably gonna tweet at me because of this episode. I know he's using it and I know Federico is using it

01:52:15 ◼   ► Yeah, and I know Snell is doing some fancy stuff with it

01:52:17 ◼   ► But I actually think if you look at it the people who are using

01:52:21 ◼   ► The making the most use of the multitasking and who swear by it are some of the most advanced users. I

01:52:27 ◼   ► Know they're there, you know, they're the power users among power users and I almost feel like the iPad is like

01:52:36 ◼   ► It's like two polar's there's the the simple use of iPad where it really shines and it's just one app at a time

01:52:42 ◼   ► on-screen like a big phone and people freaking love it and then there's the multitasking stuff and it's so weird and fiddly and

01:52:51 ◼   ► Conceptually non obvious that it only the only people who use it are some of the most advanced users on the planet. I

01:52:58 ◼   ► Think there's a third group, you know

01:53:01 ◼   ► It's and I've talked about this before but like anyone who lives in a village north of you is a northerner

01:53:05 ◼   ► It doesn't matter how far north they are.

01:53:06 ◼   ► Anyone who does similar work to you

01:53:08 ◼   ► or more complicated work in your mind is a pro.

01:53:11 ◼   ► And anybody who does anything else is not a pro.

01:53:13 ◼   ► And if like, if Vitici can use an iPad,

01:53:15 ◼   ► he's obviously not a pro.

01:53:16 ◼   ► And then if you can't do use an iPad,

01:53:18 ◼   ► you're obviously not smart enough to use it.

01:53:19 ◼   ► And it's all this nonsense.

01:53:21 ◼   ► But when Apple has some of these demos

01:53:23 ◼   ► or you just meet people,

01:53:25 ◼   ► there are incredible classes of professionals

01:53:27 ◼   ► from people like the guy who was at the event,

01:53:29 ◼   ► Rob McCullen, who does all of the storyboarding

01:53:32 ◼   ► for Pacific Rim and Star Wars,

01:53:33 ◼   ► and all of that on an iPad Pro.

01:53:35 ◼   ► And yet I forget the name,

01:53:36 ◼   ► but there was a guy who was an architect,

01:53:38 ◼   ► does a lot of the famous, famous celebrity houses.

01:53:41 ◼   ► And he does all of that on an iPad Pro.

01:53:43 ◼   ► And Karim was there from a DJ.

01:53:47 ◼   ► Incredible DJ does all of that on the iPad Pro.

01:53:49 ◼   ► There are a huge swath of developers

01:53:52 ◼   ► who were completely underserved by computers

01:53:54 ◼   ► until something like iPad came on.

01:53:56 ◼   ► People who make as much money as any pro

01:53:59 ◼   ► who are as legitimately any pro,

01:54:00 ◼   ► not traditional computing pros.

01:54:02 ◼   ► The only underserved market now is developers

01:54:04 ◼   ► who's one of the biggest categories of pros

01:54:06 ◼   ► and who still can't develop for iPad on iPad.

01:54:09 ◼   ► But I'm hopeful that,

01:54:10 ◼   ► and I think you got the same Photoshop demo I did

01:54:13 ◼   ► where it's real Photoshop, it's not full Photoshop,

01:54:16 ◼   ► but you can sort of take your environment with you

01:54:18 ◼   ► on the go.

01:54:19 ◼   ► And if Apple would figure out that for Xcode

01:54:22 ◼   ► and let developers use important subsets

01:54:24 ◼   ► of their projects on the go with iPad Pro,

01:54:27 ◼   ► I think we'd see a lot of the pain points sort of disappear.

01:54:29 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be a Mac,

01:54:30 ◼   ► but it has to let you get the stuff done

01:54:32 ◼   ► that you need to get done.

01:54:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think, you know, what I would say is that

01:54:39 ◼   ► all of these computers, all of these devices

01:54:41 ◼   ► are at their best when they disappear.

01:54:43 ◼   ► And it's not in your mind that you're using it.

01:54:46 ◼   ► And I feel like the iPad, at some moments,

01:54:49 ◼   ► and in some cases, is the most amazing of these devices.

01:54:54 ◼   ► That when it disappears, it can disappear

01:54:57 ◼   ► for a long stretch of time, you know.

01:55:00 ◼   ► and talking to people who do like illustration on it.

01:55:04 ◼   ► I forget his name, but the guy who's the illustrator

01:55:06 ◼   ► for Penny Arcade just had a blog post about,

01:55:09 ◼   ► about, you know, he's been using an iPad Pro,

01:55:13 ◼   ► I don't know for how much, you know, some, I don't know,

01:55:16 ◼   ► like a year or something, and bought the new one.

01:55:18 ◼   ► And as much as he liked the old one,

01:55:20 ◼   ► he's just blown away by the new one.

01:55:21 ◼   ► But you listen to him talk about it,

01:55:23 ◼   ► and it's like, part of it is that it just,

01:55:25 ◼   ► it's not like using a computer anymore.

01:55:26 ◼   ► It's just, it's just a pencil in his comic,

01:55:31 ◼   ► you know, that the iPad becomes the actual comic.

01:55:35 ◼   ► It's not a device with a comic, it just is the comic.

01:55:39 ◼   ► I think the iPad is so great at that.

01:55:41 ◼   ► But then there's times when you just want

01:55:43 ◼   ► like a big safari window on the left

01:55:45 ◼   ► and a tall, skinny Twitter window on the right,

01:55:47 ◼   ► and then, oh, you wanna replace that Twitter,

01:55:51 ◼   ► skinny Twitter thing on the right with messages

01:55:54 ◼   ► because somebody just texted you,

01:55:55 ◼   ► and it's like eight swipes and taps.

01:55:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:56:00 ◼   ► - When it really shouldn't be,

01:56:03 ◼   ► 'cause you'd still want Safari over there on the side

01:56:05 ◼   ► in a way that, you know,

01:56:07 ◼   ► once you pair these two things side by side,

01:56:09 ◼   ► they become like a married couple that can't be separated.

01:56:12 ◼   ► You know, they've got like a dependence problem.

01:56:15 ◼   ► - And that's the other thing.

01:56:16 ◼   ► People always complain that there's not full Safari

01:56:18 ◼   ► on there and I never know who's to blame for that.

01:56:19 ◼   ► 'Cause you talk to Apple and they're like,

01:56:21 ◼   ► there's just one Safari team, we just make Safari.

01:56:23 ◼   ► But then you try to use the fine iPad

01:56:25 ◼   ► and all these sites load the iPhone version of it

01:56:27 ◼   ► instead of the desktop version,

01:56:28 ◼   ► and you have to press the desktop button and you get it.

01:56:31 ◼   ► It's available to it.

01:56:32 ◼   ► For some reason, the mix of Mobile Safari's identity bar

01:56:36 ◼   ► and those websites just always give you a bad experience.

01:56:40 ◼   ► It makes people think that Safari is worse

01:56:41 ◼   ► than it actually is.

01:56:42 ◼   ► - There's other things too.

01:56:43 ◼   ► I gotta write about this.

01:56:44 ◼   ► It's just such a mountain.

01:56:46 ◼   ► It's just such a huge rant,

01:56:48 ◼   ► but I gotta get it off my chest.

01:56:49 ◼   ► But one of the other things I noticed,

01:56:51 ◼   ► I've been trying to do more and more work on it.

01:56:52 ◼   ► And so I upload the audio hosting for the talk show is on SoundCloud.

01:56:59 ◼   ► And to upload-- there might be other ways.

01:57:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:57:01 ◼   ► The way I know how to do it is I log into SoundCloud's website,

01:57:04 ◼   ► and they have a button that says Upload Audio.

01:57:06 ◼   ► And then you choose from the file picker, or you drag it into the window,

01:57:11 ◼   ► and it uploads the audio.

01:57:14 ◼   ► And you wait, and it does a little processing.

01:57:16 ◼   ► And then it's ready.

01:57:18 ◼   ► And then I can proceed with the other stuff I have to do.

01:57:21 ◼   ► So I tried doing it on the iPad last week,

01:57:23 ◼   ► with the last episode.

01:57:25 ◼   ► And SoundCloud doesn't have a mobile,

01:57:28 ◼   ► or at least on the iPad, they show you

01:57:30 ◼   ► what looks like the same thing I see on the Mac.

01:57:32 ◼   ► It shows you the full website,

01:57:34 ◼   ► and it lets you hit the upload button,

01:57:36 ◼   ► and the upload button lets you pick from the apps in files.

01:57:41 ◼   ► So I can pick from Dropbox, and I can pick from iCloud.

01:57:45 ◼   ► Dropbox is actually what I need, and it works,

01:57:50 ◼   ► and I can just go there and it's exact, you know,

01:57:52 ◼   ► just like as familiar as the Finder,

01:57:54 ◼   ► here's all my folders in my Dropbox,

01:57:56 ◼   ► here's the one for the talk show, here's the new episode.

01:57:59 ◼   ► There it is and it goes and it starts uploading.

01:58:02 ◼   ► And as it's uploading, if I command tab away

01:58:05 ◼   ► and go to another app and then come back to Safari,

01:58:07 ◼   ► it stopped. (laughs)

01:58:09 ◼   ► - Yeah. - It just doesn't work

01:58:11 ◼   ► in the background.

01:58:12 ◼   ► And that's, you know, I don't wanna sit there and wait,

01:58:16 ◼   ► it takes minutes.

01:58:18 ◼   ► I don't, it doesn't seem right.

01:58:20 ◼   ► - That's why Apple's just in time,

01:58:21 ◼   ► multitasking breaks down for you.

01:58:23 ◼   ► - And on the other hand, I get it though,

01:58:25 ◼   ► 'cause I hate the idea,

01:58:26 ◼   ► I hate how much battery life and CPU power I waste on the Mac

01:58:29 ◼   ► with crappy websites running JavaScript

01:58:33 ◼   ► I don't want in the background.

01:58:35 ◼   ► Like I kind of like philosophically the idea

01:58:38 ◼   ► that a website that isn't a visible tab should be shut down.

01:58:43 ◼   ► But I didn't close the tab, I didn't cover the tab.

01:58:47 ◼   ► it's still the frontmost tab in Safari.

01:58:49 ◼   ► I've just made Safari not frontmost, and the upload stops.

01:58:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think they have a way

01:58:56 ◼   ► to make that kind of stuff continue.

01:58:57 ◼   ► I don't remember for sure, but I think they do have a way.

01:59:00 ◼   ► - For all I know, it's entirely SoundCloud's fault.

01:59:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:59:04 ◼   ► - No, that sounds like iOS.

01:59:05 ◼   ► It's 'cause I don't think SoundCloud

01:59:06 ◼   ► would terminate the connection.

01:59:07 ◼   ► It sounds like iOS has reached its whatever limit

01:59:09 ◼   ► for time and shuts down the process.

01:59:11 ◼   ► - Right, I'm just saying it doesn't really matter

01:59:13 ◼   ► because practically speaking, it always works on the Mac

01:59:16 ◼   ► and it doesn't work on the iPad unless I keep it front most.

01:59:19 ◼   ► And I even think I have to, you know,

01:59:21 ◼   ► it takes enough minutes usually to upload an episode

01:59:23 ◼   ► of the show that I would have to keep touching the screen

01:59:26 ◼   ► to keep it from falling asleep.

01:59:29 ◼   ► - See, there's this weird thing.

01:59:30 ◼   ► Like it reminds me of when Marco did that whole talk about,

01:59:33 ◼   ► he didn't want to have a setting screen

01:59:35 ◼   ► in the original Overcast.

01:59:36 ◼   ► - Right.

01:59:37 ◼   ► - And he ended up having to do so many gymnastics

01:59:38 ◼   ► to avoid having a setting screen.

01:59:40 ◼   ► It was simpler just to add a setting screen.

01:59:41 ◼   ► And Apple really didn't want a file system on the iPad.

01:59:44 ◼   ► Even though they had Image Picker and the Photos app,

01:59:47 ◼   ► and they could have easily had Document Picker

01:59:48 ◼   ► and a Files app like they have right now,

01:59:51 ◼   ► it took them years and they had Silo.

01:59:53 ◼   ► So if you created a note in Vesper, for example,

01:59:56 ◼   ► and then you forgot where that note was,

01:59:57 ◼   ► you'd have to try and figure out what,

01:59:59 ◼   ► go through every single one of your apps and find a note

02:00:01 ◼   ► because there was no,

02:00:02 ◼   ► and now finally we have universal files,

02:00:03 ◼   ► but I can stick an SD card or something into the computer

02:00:07 ◼   ► and Image Picker will come up

02:00:09 ◼   ► and let me pull in all my photos,

02:00:11 ◼   ► but Document Picker will not come up

02:00:12 ◼   ► and let me pull in all my documents.

02:00:14 ◼   ► And it feels like it's just that legacy thinking

02:00:16 ◼   ► where their obsession of avoiding the complexity of files

02:00:20 ◼   ► has made files so much more complex

02:00:22 ◼   ► than they need to be on iOS.

02:00:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

02:00:25 ◼   ► There's sometimes where you just need,

02:00:30 ◼   ► you just can't beat the old floppy net, you know,

02:00:34 ◼   ► snicker net, you know, you just have a big file

02:00:36 ◼   ► on machine A and the fastest way to get it

02:00:38 ◼   ► to the machine B where you need it is to, you know,

02:00:41 ◼   ► use an SD card or a USB drive or something. It's very frustrating that that doesn't

02:00:48 ◼   ► work. I know that's been talked to death and it's got to be on Apple's radar, but…

02:00:51 ◼   ► Steven: Yeah, and it doesn't…that's the thing is that you don't need Finder.

02:00:55 ◼   ► They just have these existing…and again, I'm doing the exact thing I said not to

02:00:57 ◼   ► you, but don't propose solutions from over…but my problem is I get given these things and

02:01:01 ◼   ► I need to be able to handle them and I need them to fix that for me.

02:01:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't, you know, and, you know, I totally get not being able to, you know, I

02:01:09 ◼   ► just feel like Apple is a little gun shy about even opening the door crack on external storage,

02:01:14 ◼   ► you know, and the way that, you know, even Android's gotten away from it, though, I don't

02:01:18 ◼   ► I, to me, it seems like most Android phones don't take SD card slots that you can use

02:01:23 ◼   ► as internal storage anymore. And I totally get people were so frustrated by that in the

02:01:28 ◼   ► early years of the iPhone, because the storage capacities were so low. And other phones,

02:01:33 ◼   ► would let other brand phones would let you do it, open the back, put an SD card in there,

02:01:38 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden you can store it. It just looks like the OS treats it as internal storage.

02:01:43 ◼   ► I get not doing that because then you—it just—the Mac does it, and the Mac has the

02:01:48 ◼   ► conceptual heaviness to allow it, but what happens when you take the card out and the

02:01:52 ◼   ► app is dependent on it, right? It's the—

02:01:54 ◼   ► So that's the thing is like, again, I don't want them to just put the Mac onto iOS,

02:01:59 ◼   ► but they're—and I understand that the cloud, like they have storage providers,

02:02:02 ◼   ► so you can hook into Dropbox and iCloud and then you can move files over the cloud. That's fine.

02:02:06 ◼   ► But there are situations even when dealing with people at Apple where you get given

02:02:09 ◼   ► physical storage and I don't need it to be persistent physical storage. I just need to

02:02:13 ◼   ► get the files on. So if they gave me, like they have a wonderful new, it debuted with iOS 12,

02:02:18 ◼   ► a wonderful new way to pull photos on because they understand that when you're dealing with

02:02:21 ◼   ► photos and video it comes from an external source, the camera or the cart. Files is the same thing.

02:02:25 ◼   ► Just give me a the the files equivalent of the of the image picker and let me suck those files

02:02:32 ◼   ► Into files dot app and I'll be fine. I don't have to keep the drive plugged in

02:02:35 ◼   ► I just need to get them onto my exactly or the opposite is let me move this file

02:02:41 ◼   ► Yes from somewhere else onto this card because I got to give it to Renee because Renee's the one who's gonna go do the editing

02:02:46 ◼   ► You know, yes

02:02:47 ◼   ► All right. I don't have four gigs of time to wait for it to upload

02:02:51 ◼   ► All right. Let me take a break here and thank our third and final sponsor of the show

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02:05:51 ◼   ► I really dug deep on the--

02:05:54 ◼   ► - I saw that.

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