The Talk Show

234: ‘Welcome to Dongletropolis’ With Merlin Mann


00:00:00   John Gruber, I was so excited yesterday. I was in receipt of many exciting things from

00:00:04   China. Oh yeah, many Chinese things arrived in my house yesterday. And it's very early

00:00:09   for me. I slept in a little bit, so I'm kind of out of it. Yeah, so I was really excited.

00:00:14   I got the new big boy iPad and I hurriedly, I said, they said, honey, you watch, watch,

00:00:19   watch, watch some cartoons. I'm going to go to the office and I'm going to go restore

00:00:23   my iPad and I got there and I went, "Hmm?" because I have a Retina 5K iMac from two,

00:00:32   three years ago. The first Retina 5K iMac.

00:00:34   Yeah, that's why I still got that.

00:00:35   And I stood there like my late stepfather holding a cord with two different things on it going,

00:00:40   "Hmm, hmm." Looking back and forth and I realized at my office as it stands,

00:00:45   I do not have any way to go from this particular machine to USB-C that I know of.

00:00:52   It's it is funny. I don't have that either. I've got a bunch of I've got my front pocket of my

00:00:59   backpack is I got one of the that's where you store dongle town. Yeah, it's it's a very small

00:01:04   pocket. But I now have many, many dongles. And it's not, not even all of them are USB C related.

00:01:12   They just have right, I decided that I would, I'm never going to get caught short again without it.

00:01:17   Right, right. I have a bag that up until this week was real good for that purpose.

00:01:22   It's just that you're the one who studied math, you're the engineer, but if you think about it,

00:01:26   it used to be mostly as simple as you go on the road with whatever and you need some kind of little plug thing

00:01:34   that goes from USB-A to 30 pin. And now over time, as I got more other devices, not Apple devices,

00:01:42   that became micro, but usually mini, USB mini, you gotta account for that. So in that case,

00:01:48   I always get them wrong. But whatever the one is that's flat and popular, I got that

00:01:52   kind that's reversible, or flippable, right? Where you can put it in either way, and it

00:01:57   usually works. Because I would always get it wrong, you know, get it wrong more than

00:02:01   50% of the time, I got one of those, I had all those, you know, but the problem is then,

00:02:06   then you start getting this this weird, like, anytime you draw that, do that network drawing

00:02:10   with more than a few dots and connect all the dots.

00:02:12   It becomes hopelessly confusing.

00:02:13   You had USB-C to that mix and now all of a sudden I, I, I don't know.

00:02:18   I feel like professor Frank or something like that.

00:02:19   I'm going to need several different is, and I honestly, there will certainly be

00:02:23   things where I complain about Apple today.

00:02:25   I'm honestly not complaining.

00:02:26   I'm just noting that like, I thought I had, I thought I had a wired man.

00:02:30   I had the, literally I had the anchor hub, the USB-C hub that was great for going on

00:02:35   the road I've got, I'm, I'm pretty like stored up at this point.

00:02:39   with having devices that charge faster.

00:02:42   Between iPads and iPhones, I've got the higher powered USB

00:02:48   adapters.

00:02:49   But now I need to revisit the whole system.

00:02:51   I have a go bag where I can just throw in a suitcase

00:02:53   and know to a certainty that everything from the Apple

00:02:56   Watch to the Fitbit to the Mac to the iPad

00:02:59   will all be taken care of.

00:03:01   And I knew I'd be good.

00:03:02   And I do need to revisit that.

00:03:03   And I think it's going to possibly get more complex.

00:03:06   You know, it is weird because it doesn't

00:03:08   too many things out there, right? Most of everything I've gotten either needs done,

00:03:13   you know, the lightning or the USB C now, but you still have some mostly lightning.

00:03:18   I mean, let's be honest up until you know, this week. Well, but then you've also got

00:03:22   your your oddball devices that need the I don't even know what it's called. My micro

00:03:27   micro was like my mini was the one that was was not even that many. Mini was the one that

00:03:31   was that's the Android ish one that's taller. Yeah. And like a trapezoid. Right. Kind of.

00:03:38   And then the one in what, like in everything else,

00:03:41   is modern devices, is micro, yeah.

00:03:43   - Right, and so like my external battery packs,

00:03:45   you know, those things need, always need micro.

00:03:47   Who knows why, thank God,

00:03:49   if we could get those things on USB-C,

00:03:50   it would really upgrade the world.

00:03:52   I think the Kindle still takes the micro, I don't know.

00:03:56   I've got a brand new-- - It does, it does.

00:03:57   - I have a brand new Kindle upstairs

00:03:59   that a guy came like three and a half weeks ago,

00:04:02   and I still haven't opened the box,

00:04:03   because it's like, busy,

00:04:05   it's like the busy time of the year for me,

00:04:07   I've got all these other things.

00:04:08   It's like, I can't dig around with a new Kindle.

00:04:12   - Well, you know, it's, I don't know.

00:04:14   This is actually a somewhat interesting, I think,

00:04:16   somewhat germane topic, which is like almost all the time

00:04:20   in Apple since let's say, what, 1998?

00:04:24   I mean, in all the time since then,

00:04:26   it always feels like we're in the middle of a transition.

00:04:29   Whether that's, let's start with, you know,

00:04:31   floppies not being relevant anymore.

00:04:33   the widespread adoption of USB-A, but really at every step along the way, I mean, it's

00:04:40   only people like my friend John Roderick that feel like it was 30 pin jacks forever and

00:04:43   then why does Apple keep changing it? It really is a constant time of transition, so you just

00:04:47   look at the one vector of this thing you plug in to your device, let's say the most basic

00:04:51   one. You need a way to charge your iPhone, well of course you need a way to charge your

00:04:55   iPhone, but in a lot of cases you also need a way to get data over that cable, which changes

00:05:00   things a little bit. Because if you are traveling and have multiple devices and you don't want

00:05:04   to be an insane person carrying like a Dr. Satchel full of these things around, you have

00:05:08   to really think all that stuff through. And the USB-C does complicate that. Because, for

00:05:13   example, I was thinking, so what do you use to charge your iPhone from your new iPad that

00:05:21   must be USB-C to Lightning? Do you have that cable?

00:05:24   No, I don't have that cable. I don't think I do. I really don't think I do.

00:05:28   I'm not complaining. I might have it. I'm becoming aware that I have to jump on my segue

00:05:34   and go back and forth to the house three times. And I still could not figure it was like it's

00:05:39   like the thing my kid does now. She's she's in fifth grade and she has these logic problems

00:05:43   where like Doug is sitting next to John and John has a hoagie and it's like you go. So

00:05:47   who's on the train? And and I eventually gave up and went with iCloud backup because I am

00:05:52   a compulsive iCloud back upper. I actually prefer the iCloud for the restore. It's come

00:05:57   so far, John. It's really stem to stern the entire thing. Oh, yeah. And again, so you're

00:06:03   making the point for me, which was, if we only account for power, that's one thing.

00:06:06   If we only account for data or, you know, that's another thing. Well, we are what we

00:06:10   still need to get our head around if we're going to stay in this universe is all the

00:06:13   other stuff too. We also, we do have the constant of mostly 10 hour plus or minus battery life

00:06:18   to keep in mind. But I mean, we've talked about this how many times where sometimes

00:06:24   your LTE connection some places is actually faster than the Wi-Fi connection.

00:06:28   You can do some pretty substantial stuff and not have to check on it

00:06:33   constantly. It's not like burning a CD in like 2002. Like you can,

00:06:36   you know that stuff is eventually going to work,

00:06:38   but you do have to take all that into account.

00:06:40   You have to then think about stuff like still USB,

00:06:43   USB keys for moving stuff around things like the files, uh,

00:06:46   apps and services. And you know, if we,

00:06:50   I guess what I'm trying to say is in order to avoid becoming a completely unhappy

00:06:53   old man. It is important for me to keep focusing on where things are and where they are going,

00:06:57   rather than gazing exclusively at where I thought they should be in 1987. You know,

00:07:03   I don't miss Scuzzy 50. I don't miss it. That was it was brutal. I you have to take into account

00:07:09   how the entire ecosystem works together and is moving. And of all the things we can be

00:07:14   skeptical with about Apple, I think one is that they have a pretty good idea about how

00:07:18   it will fit together. I hope. Yeah, I think the weird thing too that while testing this

00:07:24   new iPad, I at one point on the last day, I think because the reviews are going up Monday

00:07:29   morning, let me see if I have a fine timeline. Yeah, Monday was the iPads and Tuesday was

00:07:33   MacBook Air. I had been using this iPad for you know, the better part of a week, but Amy

00:07:40   is a much more avid iPad user than me and I wanted her to use it because I was really

00:07:45   interested in her perspective of would she like this size, meaning the 12.9. And so I

00:07:50   wiped it and gave it to her and let her restore her iPad thing. And again, that went so fast.

00:07:56   It was like, this could be a nightmare. This, you know, am I misremembering how quick it

00:08:00   was for me to set this up? And it was seriously, it was like, I don't know.

00:08:02   Isn't there a small part of your mind? I mean, like, so just real quick. So what I do, here's

00:08:06   my, I screw up was I'm running the developer betas on most of my iOS devices because I'm

00:08:13   that guy. And of course my backup was 12.1.1. And so I tried to restore and it says, "Sorry,

00:08:19   no luck." So I wipe, I start over and now I have to get to, but it turns out in the

00:08:26   time since then, even in that day, now it's got to be 12.1.2. So I got to get them both

00:08:30   up to 12.1. This is not a huge problem, but it was an extra like three hours, I'll told.

00:08:35   But what you're saying is correct. If you're in normie and just running normal software,

00:08:38   that's probably going to work fine.

00:08:40   And it is shocking.

00:08:41   All you have to do is go to reset.

00:08:43   Please be very careful and don't just do this while I'm talking.

00:08:45   You go to reset, you say erase all content and settings.

00:08:47   And then it just comes back up and you say,

00:08:49   restore from iCloud.

00:08:50   Which one do you want?

00:08:50   And that's it.

00:08:51   That's really-- it really-- it's shocking how fast--

00:08:54   oh, and also then the new thing where

00:08:56   you get basic settings from a nearby iOS device,

00:08:58   sort of like with the Apple TV setup.

00:09:00   That's great.

00:09:01   Yeah.

00:09:01   Yeah, and it really does speed things up.

00:09:02   It gets you on the Wi-Fi and stuff like that.

00:09:05   And so you don't have to type in your fiddly--

00:09:06   So you wipe it and give it to her.

00:09:08   Tell me what you think about this.

00:09:09   - Well, she likes it and she's like,

00:09:11   "Yeah, I think I want this size."

00:09:13   And she said, I think her exact words were,

00:09:15   "If the iPad is your jam, the size is your jam."

00:09:18   This is what people, you know, she got it.

00:09:20   - Talking about the big boy.

00:09:21   - The big boy, the 12.9 inch one.

00:09:23   But then it's like bedtime and she's going to bed

00:09:28   and she's got like one lightning cable

00:09:29   on her side of the bed.

00:09:31   And she's like, "How do I plug this in?"

00:09:33   And I was like, "No, no, it needs a new plug."

00:09:37   idiot. And she's looking at the bottom of this and she goes,

00:09:39   you're telling me this is different. And I said, yeah.

00:09:42   And she goes, you've got to be shitting me.

00:09:44   And she's like, well, wait, if I put the new plug over here, well,

00:09:49   that one plugged my phone, charged my phone. I was like, no, it's, it's,

00:09:53   box full of asterisks about how this is better. Yeah. And I'm,

00:09:58   I'm not even sold that it's better. You know, I, I get, I get,

00:10:02   I see the trade offs, right? I can make, I can make the list of pros and cons.

00:10:06   And, but she just looked at it and just was like,

00:10:08   you've gotta be shitting me. This is ridiculous.

00:10:10   How I've got these lightning cables, you know,

00:10:12   everywhere I need them around the house to charge,

00:10:15   whatever.

00:10:16   - I'll often buy the Amazon ones

00:10:18   cause they sell a six foot one or whatever,

00:10:21   the longer the one that comes with it.

00:10:22   I frequently buy them.

00:10:23   And when I do, when I get them from Amazon,

00:10:25   I buy them in pairs.

00:10:26   Cause when am I not going to need those?

00:10:27   Well, I've not,

00:10:28   because they get that little crayon mark eventually.

00:10:30   If you use them long enough,

00:10:31   you get that little corrosion on there

00:10:33   and you want to be able to switch them out,

00:10:34   that kind of stuff.

00:10:35   So I'm lousy with those cables.

00:10:39   I've been buying the ones from, I always forget the name of the company, Monoprice.

00:10:44   The Monoprice ones that have three caps.

00:10:48   So natively the cable has the micro USB, but then there's a lightning cap, like a little

00:10:55   lightning condom you put on the top and it's connected.

00:11:00   It's on like a little tether so it's not going to fly off like an Apple Pencil One.

00:11:04   So the one cable has all three things you can do micro you can do lightning, you can

00:11:09   do USB C. And as far as I can tell, you don't pay any kind of penalty on that. It's like

00:11:13   when you're going with you put the USB C cap on you plug it into the powerful 30 watt charger,

00:11:20   you're getting the full 30 watt, you know, just because even though it's at some point

00:11:24   going through a little micro USB thing, I don't see I haven't done I haven't send it

00:11:28   to you out labs, but it seems like you don't lose anything. But I have to say it's it is

00:11:34   ugly. It's an ugly little tentacle of many cables at the end of the cable.

00:11:39   It is and there are so many things about this is the first time in a pretty long time that except

00:11:46   for my desktop Mac, which is as I say, I think I got an August I want to say of 2016 whenever

00:11:53   whenever the 5k right now was relatively new. I'm up to date on all my devices right now.

00:11:59   I've got like, I'm a fancy boy and I've got recent versions of everything. And then what,

00:12:02   you know, it is funny what, what they say, you get used to this or you come to expect

00:12:07   this. It is kind of funny at almost almost every step I have been proven utterly wrong.

00:12:13   Like when I saw the notch, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. I will never not see

00:12:18   the notch all the time. And now I'm on my second iPhone 10 series and I see it but it

00:12:24   doesn't bother me. It doesn't bug me at all. And further to that point, so I spent just

00:12:31   enough time setting up this gorgeous new iPad yesterday, just enough time that when I popped

00:12:37   over to flip on the previous iPad Pro 10 inch, I went, "Hmm, that's kind of a modest sized

00:12:43   screen. It's no different than my feeling of picking up my kid's iPod she never uses

00:12:47   anymore just to make sure it's up to date. And I go, "Oh my gosh, this is like roaming

00:12:51   on a postage stamp. This thing feels so little." It is strange, but the corollary to that is

00:12:56   that you increasingly do notice how crazy some stuff is. It really feels like we should

00:13:04   be closer to truly wireless charging, for example. The apex of this, and thank God this

00:13:11   has gone away. Of course, the lollipop effect of sticking your Apple Pencil 1 into your

00:13:18   iPad never stopped feeling utterly asinine. Second only perhaps to that mouse you had

00:13:23   to flip over to stick the charger into. You get used to most all of it, but you also become

00:13:29   increasingly aware of like, "God damn, this thing is so good at so many of these things

00:13:32   that it does really feel like a little bit of a legacy relic to have certain things,

00:13:36   including a cable sticking out of the bottom while you're trying to use it."

00:13:40   I was thinking about this the other day. It's funny. I could tell you exactly what block

00:13:43   of the city I was on. I was just talking to, I don't know if this is like an age thing

00:13:46   or what, but more and more it's like I can remember exactly where and when I was when

00:13:51   I had a thought. Oh yeah. So I can remember them at all. I can usually remember. I think

00:13:56   it's the other way around. I think it's, you just don't remember much. You probably always

00:13:59   remember, but now it's the thoughts you do remember, you know, so what you got to see,

00:14:03   you've got the new pencil thing. Yeah, no, you didn't get the pencil. I did. No, I got,

00:14:07   I got everything. Yeah. I'm the four digit club. The new pencil is,

00:14:10   is the greatest little apple thing I can,

00:14:13   I raved about it better in at least three or four ways.

00:14:16   I raved about it in my review.

00:14:17   It was the little sentence of the review that apple picked up and put on there,

00:14:21   like what the reviewers are saying, which is always a weird thing for me.

00:14:25   I always think, I think like I can't, you know, I should,

00:14:28   I shouldn't understand that,

00:14:30   that apple reads my stuff and cares what I think, but it's like, Whoa,

00:14:33   I can't believe they're quoting me.

00:14:35   - You didn't use the shit sandwich one?

00:14:37   - No, I didn't use that.

00:14:38   But I feel like even though I raved about it so much

00:14:41   that Apple even picked that segment to talk about it,

00:14:43   I still don't feel like I did justice

00:14:45   to just how beautiful this thing is,

00:14:48   and every aspect of it.

00:14:49   Like, and I even wrote in my little thing

00:14:52   that it nears perfection for the concept.

00:14:55   So in theory, somebody could have a concept of a stylist

00:14:58   that works differently,

00:15:00   something that has like three little clicky buttons,

00:15:02   you could just sit there and click. You know, there's other ways to do a stylus. But the idea

00:15:06   of a stylus with no buttons that just works. This this new one is it is seriously near perfection.

00:15:14   The one and only idea I really sat there and thought, well, how would I even suggest an

00:15:17   improvement? The only thing I could think of was it would be nice if it had like haptic feedback

00:15:23   for that double tap thing. Because as it stands, you you double tap it and whether to tell sometimes

00:15:29   if it's taken, especially on an app that has been updated. Well, that Yeah, they don't

00:15:31   know that you've missed the pencil itself has no feedback to offer you. So the only

00:15:35   way you can get feedback is in the app you're using. And so like the notes app, which has

00:15:39   been updated for it, you know, literally racer will pop up, it animates and has a little

00:15:45   spring to it, you know, and it's like, okay, you switch to the eraser by by double tapping,

00:15:49   it would be nice if the pencil offered you that feedback. But other than that, I can't

00:15:53   even think of a way to improve it. It's so beautiful. And you're right that the and I

00:15:56   still what the thought I had the other day was was about the bad rap that the old pencil got

00:16:03   for that lollipop effect you're talking about because it was awkward. It did look silly. It

00:16:08   always and I don't know why every time I did it I feel like oh Christ don't break it you know it

00:16:13   just felt like because it's just sticking out and I never came close to breaking it you know but it's

00:16:18   not the kind of thing you would see in an Apple product photo you know feature it it looks really

00:16:24   weird and it's an anxiety making.

00:16:26   - Yeah, but it was, but I totally see why they did it,

00:16:29   right, it's totally justifiable because in addition

00:16:32   to charging and in addition to the fact that when the pencil

00:16:35   is low on juice, you really only needed to stick it in

00:16:38   for a couple seconds, you know, 30 seconds and you'd be good

00:16:41   for a long stretch.

00:16:42   But the fact that it also is what paired it to the iPad.

00:16:47   So if you've got one pencil and a couple of iPads

00:16:50   and you're not even, you know, it's like this isn't

00:16:52   your pencil, you just stick it in the lightning port

00:16:54   And it's like, okay, I got you.

00:16:55   Now this is the iPad is saying, this is my pencil now.

00:16:58   Got it.

00:16:59   It's brilliant.

00:16:59   You don't have to go to settings.

00:17:00   You don't have to pair.

00:17:02   There's no, it's brilliant, but boy, this is so much better

00:17:07   without having to actually stick it in a port.

00:17:09   Just snap.

00:17:11   - Yeah, and this is something I feel like I say,

00:17:14   I don't like to invoke the whole specter

00:17:16   of Steve Jobs for things.

00:17:17   I think it's pretty lame most of the time,

00:17:19   but there's a tremendous irony in the fact

00:17:21   that it is a stylus that is the product I look at

00:17:25   from the last five years and I go,

00:17:26   "Wow, Steve Jobs wouldn't like this."

00:17:28   Ironic, of course, 'cause of the You Blew It line.

00:17:31   But this is a very Steve Jobs kind of thing.

00:17:33   Just the subtle touches of,

00:17:35   this does not feel to me like a purely Johnny type of thing.

00:17:38   I think the first pencil feels like

00:17:39   a very Johnny kind of thing,

00:17:41   'cause it looks great until you have to use it,

00:17:42   and then it's kind of silly.

00:17:43   And in this case, no offense,

00:17:46   but in this case, the thing looks great

00:17:47   no matter how you're using it.

00:17:49   The subtlety of like, it's fun.

00:17:51   I certainly must have thought of calling it the number two pencil, but that would have

00:17:55   been confusing. But adding that, what would be the one flat side, I think that's probably

00:18:01   a hexagonal plane if you'd done that all the way around. It feels like a pencil on

00:18:06   that part. Yes, it does pop right on. Another one that's so subtle, it feels real sturdy,

00:18:13   but the texture, it's so strange. They're so good at materials, the texture of this

00:18:17   If God forbid Steve Jobs ever had to live to see a stylist on one of his devices, I think he'd be proud of this one

00:18:22   I think this really

00:18:24   Especially for I consider this a 1.0. I feel like this is a real do-over

00:18:27   I guess the tips are similar

00:18:29   But this feels like a real do-over of the concept and I think he would be very proud of this

00:18:33   I think this would fit into his idea of how we interact with stuff

00:18:36   And that's you know, if you go back and listen to what he said, I think his context was clearly well

00:18:42   It was a classic job Z and if we don't have to use you have to use a style

00:18:46   yeah, it was about having you know a

00:18:48   Device where where where there are certain features that require this stylus and that's what he meant by blew it

00:18:54   I don't think that he even even then at that moment was opposed to

00:18:58   Say the fact that you know that there were plenty of people using Wacom tablets with Macintosh

00:19:04   Computers, you know and a stylus, you know that there's of course artists need a stylus to draw

00:19:11   But you know there's a classic job scene if Apple isn't selling X yet

00:19:15   Then every X on the market is both unnecessary and garbage garbage. Just just poor design. Yeah

00:19:21   another one of his I don't know this is apocryphal, but the I feel like I remember him saying at one time nobody

00:19:27   Nobody's gonna nobody watches movies. Yeah, it was I remember

00:19:30   It was when the first color iPod came out with and it only had support for photos

00:19:36   Yeah and talk about

00:19:39   That's the thing. That's the thing is I do remember having that particular whichever

00:19:43   iPad or iPod was the first one that could show a video. And I do feel like it was easily

00:19:48   one of the first things I ever bought as like a video thing from iTunes. I think I bought

00:19:54   a few episodes of the show Psych. And I remember specifically I was staying at John Roderick's

00:19:59   house in his mom's guest room and I remember having the dingus that would let me go to

00:20:04   RCA cables, and I was watching video from an iPod on a TV. But it did feel very exotic.

00:20:15   It did feel very--I enjoyed the episode y'all did about 2001 on the incomparable--it did

00:20:19   very much feel like something, you know, a little bit proto-Haywood, you know, like when

00:20:24   you're hanging out waiting to talk to the Russians and you pull out your video device

00:20:28   in portrait mode. But that was very exotic at the time. And now one of the reasons I

00:20:33   I suggest to people if you're going to be a dumb rich boy and buy one of these things,

00:20:37   don't buy 64. And everybody's like, well, why would I ever use more? I look now I'm

00:20:40   not using 64. I was like, this is a movie machine. If you have a kid, you could have

00:20:43   10 movies on this thing all the time and never even notice. But if you, you pick you, you

00:20:48   get Scott Pilgrim, you get Harry Potter three, you get a few classic movies that everybody

00:20:52   likes and you put it on here. And now when you're somewhere with no connectivity, you

00:20:56   have a movie machine that looks stunning. This screen is bigger and certainly more colorful

00:21:00   in the screen that I grew up with as a child. And it is a primary way that tons of people,

00:21:05   especially young people, watch video now. That changed a lot.

00:21:08   Yeah, I don't have anything that takes up significant space on my iPads other than

00:21:12   the movies. I don't have little kids anymore. So it's not, thank God though, that would have made

00:21:19   life easier if we had these things back then. It's so funny, John, so much of the stuff you

00:21:25   told me about. Our kids are, I think, three or four years apart. We were just looking

00:21:30   at pictures of them back in Wellington. They're so little. But it's so funny, the things you would

00:21:35   say about how your son is like, he's doing like three different things at once on three different

00:21:39   devices. I'm like, "Oh, that's so silly." How would you allow that? And I shot a video the other day

00:21:44   of my kid playing Minecraft while watching on the iPad, while watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine on the TV

00:21:51   as she was on speakerphone with her friend who was also playing Minecraft on an iPad.

00:21:55   It is there. The way they multitask is definitely a multi-device. It's like,

00:22:01   this device is doing this and this one's doing that. And so he's still like a big YouTube. Oh,

00:22:05   yeah. Right. Yep. Yeah. And it's so bizarre. And I'll have like a FaceTime call going with a buddy

00:22:10   in there. Like, I'm like, are you guys watching the same thing? And he's like, no, no,

00:22:14   we're not dating. Right. But you know, maybe this is part of this section is ends up being

00:22:21   somewhat thematic, which is like, you know, anytime you're looking at this stuff, when

00:22:27   you and I were maybe a little bit younger, we could always kind of groan and grunt and

00:22:31   point at the old who just didn't understand. And a certain time was, you know what they

00:22:35   didn't understand? A desktop computer. Like, oh, why do you need that? Why don't you use

00:22:39   a typewriter? And you're like, oh, you poor old man, you don't understand this. And now

00:22:42   we are the ones who are constantly in danger of becoming that. And like the presence of

00:22:46   mind that I think is valuable to hold in your head when it can occur to you is to look at

00:22:51   where this is and where this is going rather than exclusively looking at how it squares

00:22:55   up with what you've done in the past. Like you can get the terminal on lots of stuff,

00:22:59   but you know, just update. That's not the best way to do stuff nowadays. There's a lot

00:23:03   of really nice ways and learning to hue or mold or turn to the way that Apple is going

00:23:10   is not a terrible idea if you want to stay in this ecosystem. All right, let me take

00:23:14   a break here and thank our first special friend. It's our good friend at away. You guys know

00:23:18   away. They make super high quality suitcases. Uh, look, you go there, you go to a way.com,

00:23:25   you pick a suitcase. They got, here's their sizes. Carry on the bigger carry on the medium

00:23:31   and the large. It tells you everything you need to know about. You don't have to, it's

00:23:35   not like Grande and tall and whatever. I mean the words mean stuff. Yeah. The words mean

00:23:40   something. Look, these are great. They have a whole bunch of colors to pick from. Uh,

00:23:48   They're all made from premium German polycarbonate, unrivaled in strength and impact resistance.

00:23:54   You longtime listeners of the show, you know how long away has been sponsoring this show.

00:23:58   And before they the first time they sponsored the show, they sent me a carry on. This is

00:24:04   years ago, and I still use it. I've taken it on every single airplane trip I've gone

00:24:09   on for years. And the damn thing looks brand new. It's really these things are very, very

00:24:15   well made. The wheels are still in perfect shape. And they even like months ago, they

00:24:19   were like, Hey, do you need a new, you know, do you want us to send you another suitcase?

00:24:22   I'm like, you don't have to send me another suitcase. My other one's still brand new.

00:24:25   I mean, I honestly it's, what am I going to do with the new one? That it's still, it's

00:24:30   like, I could use a new one, john, because they sent me one a few years ago, too. But

00:24:34   mine has been adopted. Like so many things in my home that used to belong to me, they

00:24:37   now belong to someone else in the house who's decided that that's theirs now. Great wheels,

00:24:41   TSA approved combination lock honestly and kids kids love them

00:24:44   Great I swear to God patent-pending compression system. There's things inside and little it's very simple

00:24:54   You don't need like an instruction manual

00:24:55   But it's a way to put like stuff that gets wrinkled like dress shirts put them in the suitcase

00:25:00   You put this thing on top cinch it and then the shirts stay nice and flat while you're abusing your luggage on an airplane

00:25:08   It's great. It's a great little system

00:25:10   They've got like a nice little bag built in that you can put your dirty clothes in for the trip

00:25:14   And then all your dirty clothes when you get home or in a nice little bag

00:25:17   You just shake them into the hamper or whatever you do and they have a lifetime warranty

00:25:21   Anything breaks they will fix it or replace it to you

00:25:25   Place it for you for life and you get a hundred day trial hundred days. So buy it use it for three months

00:25:32   Travel with it take pictures, whatever you want to do with it

00:25:35   And then if you don't like it, you can get a full refund. No questions asked. That's how confident

00:25:40   they are. You get free shipping on any order within the lower 48 states. Sorry, Alaska. And

00:25:48   the carry ons are compliant with all the major US airlines. And they have a retail store in New York

00:25:54   City. So if you're in New York, you can actually go see these things in person. But you really

00:25:57   because of this guarantee 100 day guarantee, you can you can just buy it just buy it over the

00:26:02   the internet. You don't have to go to the store. So here's the deal. You can save

00:26:06   20 bucks off a suitcase by going to awaytravel.com. So I was wrong. It's not awaytravel.com.

00:26:11   It's awaytravel.com. That was a test. Slash talk show and use that promo code talk show,

00:26:17   T-A-L-K-S-H-O-W during checkout and you can save 20 bucks on a suitcase. It's a great

00:26:25   value, great product, really. I mean this sincerely. I don't know what percentage

00:26:29   of listeners of the show are using away suitcases but I'll bet it's pretty high. Did you mention

00:26:33   the charging? No, I didn't even mention the charging carry ons come with the USB during

00:26:39   the lead a little bit because this thing is a but saver. Yeah. And we were just talking

00:26:43   about charging devices. It's got two two USB out ports. So you can sit there at the airport

00:26:48   and charge your devices if you have the right cable. And if you have the right cable that's

00:26:52   on you that don't blame away away travel. But it's it's also a I mean, mine's a few

00:26:57   years old right now, but it's a pretty high capacity battery.

00:27:01   Yeah, I'm usually able to get like, at least I feel like I

00:27:04   want to say, least serve for full charges out of it. And it's

00:27:07   got a it's got a higher it's got a pretty pretty good capacity

00:27:10   battery battery and it has two ports a well a sorry, that word

00:27:15   choice. It's got two two ports that you can use. So you can

00:27:17   charge two things at once. And one of them is a higher wattage

00:27:19   that will charge your iPad faster.

00:27:20   Now, did you know that you can get a free upgrade? If you have

00:27:24   an older one? I did this.

00:27:25   I need this. I need this. This is how we get the little pop out little toaster effect,

00:27:30   right? So the original, their original design, you could remove the battery,

00:27:33   but you needed like a Phillips head screwdriver and a couple of minutes of work,

00:27:37   which would might be tough if you're at the gate, you know, like the scenario, right?

00:27:42   The scenario where you would need to do this is if you thought you were going to put your suitcase

00:27:45   in the overhead bin and then they're like, we ran out of space. We need to gate check the remaining

00:27:50   bags and you're not supposed to put a lithium-ion battery in a checked bag. So you're supposed

00:27:56   to take the battery out. So some of the airlines now—I don't even know which ones—but

00:28:00   some of them have a policy where if it's not easily removable, you're not supposed

00:28:04   to get it on the airplane at all. And so Away has switched to a different design. You just

00:28:09   pop it, you just punch at it, and it pops right out, pops right back in. But if you've

00:28:13   got their older one, they'll send you a free kit to turn your old mounting thing into

00:28:17   a new one which is great and you're right it's super I don't know how many mega amp

00:28:22   hours you can get at least five charges on an iPhone out of it your management very but

00:28:26   now it's it's it's pretty boss yeah especially if for me because you're not really there

00:28:30   long enough to really like you know hopefully your bat your phone isn't at zero at the airport

00:28:35   but you know just to sit there on while you're waiting for your boarding group to be called

00:28:39   to sit there and you know fill up your iPhone as best you can for 20 minutes or whatever

00:28:43   it's fantastic. Yeah, you'll never be that guy at the airport sitting on the, I always

00:28:48   feel so bad for the people who sit on the floor. Yeah. It's usually, and you know, I

00:28:53   don't know if this isn't intended as punishment, but I am shocked at how often the available

00:28:58   plugs are near a garbage can. So it's usually somebody sitting there with McDonald's next

00:29:02   to a garbage can. You're like, Oh, you've poor son of a bitch. She got in the way, way

00:29:05   travel. Right. And then the other thing too is that at airports there's the newer things

00:29:09   to where there's like a bar, you know, like, and they have stools and it's like, here's a place

00:29:15   that is sort of these are waiting seats where you're, you know, supposed to have your laptop

00:29:20   out or something and there's there's ports for everybody. Those seats are always taken, you can

00:29:25   never get one of those seats. Like I don't even know who these people are like that. Who How do

00:29:29   you get one of these seats and it seems to me like people are like, wow, I'm so lucky I got one of

00:29:33   of these seats, I guess I'll just skip my flight. Stay here. Like I never have to put aside when I'm

00:29:42   traveling with the family and it's not really you can't really get like three of them. But even when

00:29:45   I'm by myself and I've got 40 minutes, you know, I've cruised through security, I've got, you know,

00:29:51   plenty of time to go. I never get one of those seats. So turn, you know, having the charger on

00:29:55   your suitcase and you can sit anywhere and you can you can charge your devices. With you it always,

00:30:02   we always end up doing after the sponsor read we do like a whole segment of

00:30:05   no we travel everybody wait so the one thing i want to say i will to talk about these chargers

00:30:14   is the the weird no no i do i they're good they're real good you know they're also good in a hotel

00:30:20   room where maybe you don't feel like maybe your anger doesn't work because you didn't bring the

00:30:24   right chords no but isn't it but you you mentioned this before where now the chargers the high

00:30:29   capacity ones like the one that comes with the the iPad in the box and I think

00:30:34   it's the one I think it might be the same charger that comes with the MacBook

00:30:37   Air the new air it'll be it looks different to me the one I've been

00:30:41   getting from the Apple Store you can tell me the wattage but it's the one

00:30:45   guys so freaking confusing because there's the tiny little boys that I know

00:30:49   what no the iPad comes with an 18 watt charger that's right it's not the right

00:30:53   And so I have taken stickers out of a Marvel Avengers sticker book and affixed them to

00:30:59   different things.

00:31:00   So I've got a wasp on the low wattage ones and a Hulk on the high wattage ones.

00:31:04   And I'm able to identify, when's the last time you tried to read what the wattage is?

00:31:10   Oh my God.

00:31:12   I know your vision is pretty much that of a pirate at this point.

00:31:16   But it's very recently.

00:31:17   I use the triple click.

00:31:18   It's the only way I can read even what the thing is.

00:31:22   it's no because I was looking and I was comparing it and I recently bought a pixel three and that

00:31:29   Google gives you an 18 watt charger with the pixels you know and and it's a very similar

00:31:35   looking thing to the iPad charger except Google's is bigger of course but I'm trying to read what

00:31:41   the wattage is on it and I just gave up and like googled and found like the verges review and it's

00:31:47   It's like, Verge tells me it's an 18 watt charger.

00:31:49   So I was like, all right, it's 18.

00:31:51   I can't read.

00:31:52   - It's one thing for Apple to not tell you exactly

00:31:54   like what RAM is in this, et cetera, et cetera.

00:31:56   It's such an Apple move to A,

00:31:58   make it so you have to unplug it to see what it is.

00:32:02   B, have the writing be comically,

00:32:04   the type size is comically small.

00:32:06   And it's like having EEE over CCC.

00:32:09   - Yeah, it is.

00:32:10   - It's the lowest contrast decision you could have made.

00:32:13   - It is a very light gray text

00:32:15   on a glossy white background.

00:32:17   - I'm telling you, it's a Marvel stickers.

00:32:22   It'll save your day.

00:32:23   Yeah, no, no, this is,

00:32:24   as long as we're talking about chargers.

00:32:27   Yeah, so we have some setups where we try,

00:32:29   you know, my wife is a grown woman

00:32:32   and she doesn't want the house

00:32:33   to look like a bachelor lives there.

00:32:34   And so I try to make accommodations

00:32:37   where I avoid things like the octopus of cables.

00:32:39   And I really try to have a balance between,

00:32:42   okay, everybody has a place and a way,

00:32:44   'cause everybody's got iPhones,

00:32:45   everybody's got watches, everybody's got iPads, and we need a place to charge those.

00:32:48   Of course that's my job because nobody else does it, not that I'm complaining,

00:32:51   but we have stations around the house and in one case we've got something that

00:32:56   I think was designed to be a old-fashioned, like a bamboo letter

00:33:00   sorter or folder holder. And so we've got that on a thing in the kitchen and I got

00:33:06   one of those little zip up three channel... have you seen the sleeves you can get?

00:33:11   I forget the brand name, but it's like a sleeve with a zipper on it and three

00:33:15   implied channels in it into which you can put cables and you don't get a big

00:33:19   tangle. Oh yeah. I think I know it's got a little bit of wiring in it,

00:33:23   so it can kind of hold a shape. And because that's mostly hidden,

00:33:26   I loop that around once,

00:33:28   put a bulldog clip on it and stick that behind this thing.

00:33:30   And it's mostly not ugly. I don't love going through the holes,

00:33:33   the channels for those things to do that. It doesn't work for me. So anyway,

00:33:36   we do that.

00:33:37   And that was great because I had three of my Hulk plugs on there.

00:33:41   So regardless of device, any lightning thing you put in there,

00:33:44   you're going to be good. And then as a consideration to my,

00:33:47   my grown ass adult wife,

00:33:48   I put one in the hallway because that's where she tends to leave her phone.

00:33:52   Right? So I'm doing that kind of Berkeley design thing where I'm going to wait

00:33:55   until people make the pass and then I'll put down the concrete and say, Oh,

00:33:58   you leave your phone here. I will give you,

00:34:00   I will accommodate you by putting this charger there with this very low key

00:34:04   wire. You can just kind of pull out and stick in there.

00:34:07   I got one. What are the round wireless chargers? Is it Belkin?

00:34:11   Who's the other one? What's the little round one?

00:34:13   I don't know. I've been buying, you know what I mean?

00:34:16   I've been buying anchor stuff recently.

00:34:18   I love anchor stuff.

00:34:19   So I've got one of those next to where I sit on the couch as well as another

00:34:22   lightning cable.

00:34:23   That's kind of there because everybody needs to charge stuff all the time.

00:34:26   And now we've got USB-C so this system is going to have to change a little bit.

00:34:30   Well, that's the thing, the thing that, that, that,

00:34:33   the transition that our family must go through down with our cables is that the not the end

00:34:39   of the charger that goes into your device, it's the end that goes into the charger, right?

00:34:44   They used to all be used to all be the old USB A or whatever that was called. And now

00:34:48   they're the new trend is that they're USB C. And that means we need new cables at the

00:34:54   other end. And I have to say and with all of the, you know, well, maybe Apple should

00:34:59   just move the iPhone to USB C and then everything's USB C. You know, I see the sense of that argument.

00:35:05   I don't think they're going to do it. But I see the sense of I do I see the desire for

00:35:09   me to not have those cables. But I think that's that's a little early for them to do that given

00:35:13   their install base. Yeah, it's but it I will say though that I need it is weird. USB C on

00:35:20   one end and lightning on the other cable is really weird because USB C and lightning are

00:35:25   so similar in terms, you know, if you really look at it, you can see that USB C is quite

00:35:29   a bit bigger. But that's a weird cable because it, it sort of seems like why are they different?

00:35:34   You know, why shouldn't they, they, they should both be the same, but they're not the same.

00:35:38   Yeah. Well, it's right right now as of the whatever. What's it been now? Probably 18

00:35:45   hours that I've had this in my life. It feels like we have a new family member who we dearly

00:35:51   love and it's very important to our household, but it's not simply just too tall for the

00:35:56   house we live in, but maybe a different shape than most human beings. And we're going to

00:36:00   have to find a way to accommodate that. This is not the end of the world. And we represent

00:36:03   a little bit of an edge case because what are you really looking at? Most people who

00:36:08   own an iPhone, especially if they bought it, this is coming straight out of my ass, but

00:36:12   I would guess that most people who are iPhone users who bought an iPhone in the last two

00:36:19   to four years, primarily, if you should have had a pie graph of their usage, it would be

00:36:24   a vast majority. It would be a big-ass iPhone with a lightning cable, right? I mean, how

00:36:29   many people have an iPad and a laptop and an iPhone? Certainly some, but I think we've

00:36:35   got a little bit of, I don't know, bias based on the people we roll with. In the same way

00:36:41   that like, I'm currently becoming very interested in how much people actually use iPads for

00:36:46   for real non-media jobs.

00:36:48   And it's been super interesting.

00:36:49   Federico's been doing the same thing.

00:36:51   It's very interesting to get feedback

00:36:52   from people who have real big boy jobs and use iPads.

00:36:55   But it would be really easy for us to say like,

00:36:57   well, you know, I have this problem.

00:36:59   Why doesn't everybody fix this?

00:37:00   And like, well, think about Apple, think about scale.

00:37:03   Like you gotta think about people all over the world

00:37:05   needing to make those changes at the same time.

00:37:08   And that's a big ask.

00:37:10   - I think it's weird.

00:37:11   And it's funny 'cause, you know, new iPads come out

00:37:13   And the new iPad Pro is a more interesting device

00:37:17   to write about than like eight months ago

00:37:20   or whatever it was when the quote unquote regular iPads

00:37:23   were updated, you know,

00:37:24   'cause the regular iPads are mostly about price.

00:37:28   It is about being able to sell them for like 350 bucks.

00:37:31   And so there's no technology in it

00:37:33   that's new and interesting.

00:37:35   It's just, here's a really nice iPad

00:37:38   that's, you know, two or three years behind the cutting edge

00:37:40   and it sells for a lower price.

00:37:41   So that as a reviewer and a nerd, the pro is way more interesting to write about.

00:37:47   But there's a part of me this week, writing my review and talking to other people and

00:37:53   reading the other reviews.

00:37:55   That is like, here we go again, I know that everybody, you know, talking about this whole,

00:38:01   can you do your work on the iPad?

00:38:03   And why not just get a laptop, blah, blah, blah, when everybody, everybody can go on

00:38:08   for thousands of words on this. Everybody can do an hour on their podcast about this.

00:38:13   And it seems like we never get anywhere, right? Like, there's a part of me that I—

00:38:18   It's nothing different from politics, because the kind of—something I've really been

00:38:23   thinking about and prepping for this is like, how often the thing that we're doing is

00:38:27   the most obvious thing in the world. How much we're saying, "Yeah, but what about me?

00:38:31   Like what about the way I think about this?" And that becomes your form of argumentation,

00:38:36   Right is where your form of perceived persuasion when you know, that's not how everybody else thinks about it

00:38:42   Yeah, I thought I didn't you know

00:38:45   I still have a bunch of tabs open with a bunch of these reviews because it was so busy of a crazy week

00:38:49   It's just crazy doing an iPad Pro review and a MacBook. It's a lot. I mean, especially coming on the heels of the tennis

00:38:56   Yeah, it's it's a lot

00:38:58   But you know, I read some of them and you know, Joanna Stern is always a favorite of mine

00:39:02   And I really enjoyed her MacBook air review

00:39:05   She didn't do the iPad Pro though. Her colleague at the Wall Street Journal, David Pierce did.

00:39:11   A lot of these people who work at real publications only had to review one of the products. It was like

00:39:17   me and Jason Snell, I think, who... Oh, poor Jason. Jason did, I think he did all three. I know he'd

00:39:26   read, I know he did Mac Mini. I think the iPad, yeah, so on upgrade they talked about the laptop

00:39:32   in the mini, but they're holding off the iPad till next week, I think. But what was the

00:39:39   Wall Street Journal guys? David Pierce. David Pierce. He used to be at I think he was at

00:39:43   Wired for a while. And then he's like one of these guys can't hold the job. Yeah, he

00:39:49   was at the verge back in the day. I joke, but it's funny when you're inside this. There's

00:39:55   Just a lot of movement in these jobs people. Mm-hmm people are bouncing around

00:39:59   Right exactly it's true it is true a lot of grenades are still rolling around

00:40:06   Thanks Facebook, but his review was I

00:40:09   Thought I thought it was fair and I think that it was very honest from his perspective

00:40:15   but it was if there's a there's a trend in these it's

00:40:20   It is iPad reviews that say you can't replace your laptop with this

00:40:26   Where good buddy in the light Patel well well well

00:40:29   But I thought neil eyes was a better take on this because I thought that it with pierces

00:40:33   I thought that it's a common problem where he's using the second person you when he really means first person him

00:40:40   You know I can't replace my laptop with an iPad and that's where I am personally me personally John Gruber

00:40:48   I really feel like if I needed to do work, and I don't even do video. I don't even do video on my

00:40:54   review. So, you know, and I don't do a lot of photography. And you have somebody else at your

00:40:59   podcast? Yeah, yeah, I do. Honestly, honestly, I mean, you're not sitting there in fair, right?

00:41:04   All right. But there's a couple of scenarios immediate, you know, people who do video editing

00:41:08   and audio editing, there's a lot of those are the people who are saying, Look, I can't my workflow

00:41:12   can't move from the Mac to iOS or or if it does, it requires so

00:41:18   much fiddliness that it's not worth it. I'm not there. But

00:41:22   even me, I just feel like I always, you know, my analogy is

00:41:26   I just feel like I've put mittens on at times, and I'm

00:41:30   trying to trying to use this thing with a pair of mittens

00:41:32   covering both hands. And if I could, you know, switching to a

00:41:35   MacBook would be like taking the mittens off. That's just me. But

00:41:38   I try to keep it in mind at all times that this is a very first

00:41:41   person thing for me. And I see other people who are doing amazing amounts of work on their

00:41:46   iPad and really liking it. And so, you know, I try not to get into it. But I felt like

00:41:51   pierces was more about his specific needs and his scenarios were things like, well,

00:41:55   not everybody has to do that. And whereas I thought neil eyes was was a better take

00:41:59   neil eyes take at the verge was, was really generous. Well, and just really interesting.

00:42:05   And you know, like he mentioned specifically, that, you know, and I think it sticks out

00:42:11   like a sore thumb that that okay, we've switched to USB C and you could take a USB C like thumb

00:42:16   drive and you can't put Yeah, you can stick it in the iPad like, and I in the world when

00:42:22   they come up in files, it's the single most obvious thing in the world, right? I don't

00:42:26   and I don't think that it should you know, like the moment you plug it in that it should

00:42:29   pop up automatically and put something in your face and take over your screen. Like

00:42:35   if you had a copy of Trent almost like if you had a copy of transmit on your Mac and

00:42:39   it couldn't see files on the computer. Yeah. It's just well, no, I can't really FTP if

00:42:44   I can't get to my stuff. You're like, well, that's not really what it's for. It's forgetting

00:42:48   it's forgetting to remote directories. And there is I thought like new eyes review kind

00:42:52   of got to where Apple is trying to have it both ways. So Adobe's stuff featured very

00:42:59   heavily in their iPad Pro demos during the event in their demos in the hands on area

00:43:07   last week after the event, and then some of the promotional stuff that they are talking about,

00:43:11   but they, you know, and rightly so that they, you know, this, like the Photoshop for iPad looks

00:43:16   amazing. Lightroom on the iPad is right now because the Photoshop at least is you could

00:43:23   at least put an asterisk because it's coming in 2019. You know, there's there's like the verge

00:43:27   has access to the beta right now. It works. It's definitely you know, close enough to shipping

00:43:32   where it's usable, but it's clearly a beta. But Lightroom is a real thing for the iPad right now.

00:43:38   And I mentioned that they had these photos by Austin Mann, who was there at the event and at

00:43:46   the hands-on area. And he shot these photos—I forget where he was. He's seriously like—he

00:43:52   and his wife are like a mini National Geographic. 50 megapixel images from this amazing-looking

00:44:01   hassle bed, hassle, blad camera, Louise, and Lightroom just goes through and he's sitting

00:44:08   there and he's, you know, it's not like if I were doing it, it's like, well, I'll just

00:44:11   make it look black and white. I mean, this is a professional photographer with a great

00:44:15   eye and he's adjusting and he's de hazing, you know, like the de hazing is actually have

00:44:19   you looked at this and no, I haven't. It's like, it's magic. It's like something that

00:44:25   requires like maybe not AI, but it requires some inference about what constitutes a's.

00:44:30   Yeah, it is. I think it is AI. I don't know. And Adobe has this anti, you know, Adobe has

00:44:35   figured it out and it's amazing. So you have this image and it kind of looks cool, but

00:44:39   then you de haze it and it's like, Oh my God, I can't believe that's the same image. Wow.

00:44:43   But anyway, all of these things happen instantaneously, which makes it look like either these were

00:44:48   tiny little thumbnail images, you know, just, you know, 2000 by 2000 pixels or something,

00:44:53   not 50 megapixel or that these results were pre rendered and you're tapping these things

00:44:59   and you know, here's all these pre rendered results you can flip through but no, it's

00:45:02   all happening live on 50 megapixel raw images. It truly as a computer, it is truly a phenomenal

00:45:10   device in terms of you know, mega flops, whatever, you know, whatever you want to say about speed

00:45:14   is incredibly fast and it is doing things that you just have no expectation that it

00:45:19   would be that fast. And again, it wasn't why Apple set it up. I mentioned this on my show

00:45:25   last week, but they had a 15 inch MacBook Pro next door. And the reason they had it

00:45:30   there was to show you the Adobe CC lifestyle where you can make these changes on one device.

00:45:37   And it all goes through the creative cloud. And here you can see the same image and the

00:45:40   same changes you made instantly sync over to this other device. But the thing I did

00:45:44   on this MacBook Pro, which is, you know, loaded to the gills is probably like a $6,000 MacBook

00:45:49   Pro is open the same image and just pinch to zoom. And it wasn't slow, but it wasn't

00:45:54   like butter smooth and it's like so the iPad is blowing away it butter smooth when you

00:45:59   pinch to zoom on the iPad with these gigantic ginormous images. But yet what neil I pointed

00:46:06   out is the workflow of getting images into Lightroom on the iPad is kind of ridiculous

00:46:11   because when you plug in a camera or a SD card reader, the only app that can deal with

00:46:19   it is the photos app. And so you it's like built into the system. So the photos app recognizes

00:46:26   it and appears and says, Oh, okay, I see you've plugged in a camera. Would you like me to

00:46:30   import? Oh, that's so interesting. Because yeah, I mean, I guess in some ways, in some

00:46:35   ways, that absolutely makes sense. Because what else would you want to put it in? Unless

00:46:38   you're getting into a world where you've got stuff? So how do you get it? How do you get

00:46:42   lightroom get to put into files first? Yeah, what? No, you have to put it you go into photos,

00:46:47   and then somehow you've got to import from photos into Lightroom and, and like Neil,

00:46:51   I pointed this out to Apple. Well, and Apple said, well, you know, and he said very proudly

00:46:57   that Adobe is publishing a series shortcut that will import images from the photo, the

00:47:04   system camera roll into Lightroom and delete those images from the camera roll. So they're

00:47:09   not sitting there taking up your, your camera roll. It's accomplished through a series shortcut.

00:47:14   And this shortcut isn't out yet.

00:47:16   Okay.

00:47:17   Right.

00:47:18   But it's like that is ridiculous, though.

00:47:21   It's like watch it run and stuff like in a regular Siri shortcut.

00:47:25   It just seems like a ridiculous workflow.

00:47:26   It's so Rube Goldberg.

00:47:27   Right.

00:47:28   It's like the better way, the more direct way to do it is to import on a Mac first and

00:47:33   then just open your iPad and have them appear through the cloud.

00:47:36   But that's not the message.

00:47:38   The message isn't, well, first step, go to a Mac.

00:47:42   Right?

00:47:43   one of those things. Like when step one is go to a Mac.

00:47:45   Now you really knew they blew it. Yeah. It's right. When your Mac is your stylus, like

00:47:50   you've got to go. Yeah. I, yeah. It's interesting because you're pointing out something that's

00:47:54   so interesting, which is like you show capabilities in these demos. Right. And God, I wish I could

00:48:01   remember it was John Hicks was talked about this app that he was using on iPad. It was

00:48:05   20 bucks and I bought it last night and I was trying to find the name of it, but it's

00:48:08   this astonishing new drawing app with vectors and layers.

00:48:12   And I opened it up and I just closed it

00:48:14   because it was freaking me out so much.

00:48:15   It's incredible what this thing can do.

00:48:17   Layers and layers and layers and layers and layers.

00:48:19   I'll find it for show notes.

00:48:21   And so certainly you show off those sort of capabilities

00:48:24   where you go like, OK, if we added this down,

00:48:26   this is a thing that you can do.

00:48:27   And you're like, wow, that's really cool.

00:48:29   But then you're like, hmm, how does that scale up

00:48:32   if we want to really do that?

00:48:33   And in the case of something David Sparks used

00:48:35   to talk about years ago before iCloud syncing got good,

00:48:38   Like, are you gonna trust, you know, the early versions of iCloud sync to hold your career as an attorney?

00:48:45   Where that that that is now something he can do.

00:48:48   They have scaled that up and that now works and you can have folders and it works across all the things.

00:48:52   But once again, now we're in a funny little in between area where that yes, this has this capability that curl your hair.

00:48:58   But like, you know, good luck this week trying to use that as a professional.

00:49:02   Isn't that kind of part of the sticking point?

00:49:05   Yeah, I don't know.

00:49:06   It just seems just seems a little spiteful. I use the word spiteful and it just feels

00:49:12   spiteful. It feels like, Oh, come on, this thing is so powerful and here's this USB drive

00:49:16   and I know that you speak USB and I can connect them and then nothing happens. Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:24   I don't know. I mean the only part about that that feels, I certainly wouldn't say dishonest,

00:49:29   but feels a little bit sketchy where you get into the asterisks is like I say, like how

00:49:33   you would use this thing in the field. Something that our good friend Marco Arment runs against,

00:49:37   I just think this is the classic example, is that what do you do with a one port professional

00:49:40   computer if you need to record a podcast? Like you think you live in dongle town now,

00:49:45   well welcome to dongle-tropolis, because that's good luck even trying to make that happen.

00:49:49   Something that seems like it should be so straightforward with a professional laptop.

00:49:53   But you know, this is my, so that's frustrating when you see the demo of the capability, but

00:49:59   then you are. And I'm not Federico, forgive me.

00:50:02   I'm not trying to say it is strictly an iOS software problem.

00:50:05   There's tons you can do. I keep returning to this one thing.

00:50:08   Every time I look at this, yes, this is the thing that is developing.

00:50:10   We're still so far ahead of where we were years ago, but with all of this stuff,

00:50:15   I still, I'm always,

00:50:16   I've become very sensitive to looking for the old man part of this. Yeah. Um,

00:50:20   and it's not always, it's not always germane.

00:50:22   Sometimes it is that Apple's just being stubborn or they're not ready to release

00:50:25   this cause it's not good enough for whatever it is.

00:50:26   maybe they're being spiteful, who knows. But I do try to always find the old man part in

00:50:31   all of this. Am I being an old man here? The same kind of people who were like, you know,

00:50:36   well think about when we, when you first got, you know, power books and, and, and, or, you

00:50:40   know, or any kind of like a laptop, the people who just let alone that it was a Mac laptop,

00:50:44   they just thought you were so silly. You'll never be, you, you're a child. You, that might

00:50:49   as well say Fisher Price on it. And now, I mean, and the truth was you could do a fair

00:50:52   amount then, and you can do even more now because that's how it works. But you and I

00:50:56   both have people who live in our household that we can look to for how a non-old person

00:51:01   looks at this stuff, and I try to never miss an opportunity. Even when they're doing a

00:51:05   quote unquote "wrong," I try to look to that. And I do think this is super valuable because

00:51:11   -- how can I put this? I don't have a smart way to say this -- but however we arrive where

00:51:16   we are in feeling that we have expertise with something, even if you can demonstrate that

00:51:20   expertise, you can prove that expertise. You can, in fact, I'm talking about expertise in a job,

00:51:25   not just with a given technical skill, right? But there are people you know, who are crazy smart and

00:51:30   experienced, who have gotten somehow, let's for a minute avoid how they got there. But we can take

00:51:34   it as read that this person really knows their stuff in their sort of domain, the work that they

00:51:40   do and the tools that they use in order to achieve it, right? I mean, we can certainly look at people

00:51:45   like that. Now, now what's interesting about that is some of the skills are things we started

00:51:49   learning. Think about the skills we started learning in the 80s and 90s and the problems

00:51:53   that we were going to solve with those skills. The tools that were available to us both educationally

00:52:00   and professionally. I guess what I'm trying to say is that is it not possible that there

00:52:05   will be a path to expertise in the future that doesn't take the same precise winding

00:52:10   road you and I took? And I think we always have to keep that in mind. So when I look

00:52:14   at somebody sitting in a Starbucks typing on the keyboard of an iPad and

00:52:19   I'm like oh god that looks I can't do that that is brutal there's no key

00:52:23   travel like how are you doing that and yet look at how many people that are

00:52:28   under 25 are totally happy to type on an iPad no right and but so something like

00:52:33   you and me like we all you gotta have your DOS keyboard like oh what do you

00:52:36   or your in your case your extended keyboard I guess I'm just trying to say

00:52:39   like I think we have to I think it's important to keep in mind that that long

00:52:43   long winding road to expertise, success via experience,

00:52:47   does not have to take the same shape that we did

00:52:50   in order for people to be successful.

00:52:52   I realize I'm beating this into the ground,

00:52:54   except this is something I so struggle with.

00:52:56   And I've talked to Syracuse about this at length

00:52:58   on Reconcilable Differences,

00:52:59   but my kid's sitting there with her Chromebook,

00:53:01   doing her homework in Google Docs,

00:53:03   and I'm like, "Oh my God, you're doing everything so wrong.

00:53:06   "Stop using the touchpad for everything.

00:53:08   "Learn the commands."

00:53:10   But you know, she hasn't died.

00:53:11   She hasn't exploded yet.

00:53:12   she's learning as she goes. But her path to whatever comes in her future must necessarily

00:53:18   take a different path than I took. And I really try to keep that in mind. It's not an excuse

00:53:22   for saying like, hey, it'd be great if the capabilities demonstrated here were supported

00:53:26   by an infrastructure that makes that scalable for professionals. But I think we also have

00:53:30   to watch the way the wind is blowing. I'm carrying on but do you kind of get what I'm

00:53:34   saying?

00:53:35   Yeah, I do. I you know, but then there's other problems where it there is no new way. Like

00:53:39   if the problem, like, I was talking to the verge guys after the event, you know, uh,

00:53:44   you know, in the media area and they were, they were just saying like, look,

00:53:48   look at our scenario, there's like three or four of them. Uh,

00:53:51   they're shooting with a standalone camera. They've got all this video footage.

00:53:55   And you know, these guys turn out the video like immediately, like they go up,

00:54:00   they rush into the hands-on area, they shoot some, what do they call it?

00:54:04   Like B roll footage. And you know,

00:54:06   They're shooting footage of the new iPad Pro shots of people like holding the iPad from different angles, right?

00:54:11   Meanwhile, yeah, maybe neil I is is is writing his narration for it

00:54:16   And then they you know within you know by like one o'clock in the afternoon Eastern Time

00:54:20   They've got like a video up on their site, you know, like a nice little four-minute very professional video

00:54:25   That gets tens of thousands of views immediately

00:54:30   And and they were like, well, how do you know? How would we do this on an iPad?

00:54:34   we've got all of this video footage, we've got a recording of audio, we need it, you

00:54:39   know, we need a USB microphone to get, you know, good quality audio for the narration.

00:54:45   How do we do how would we if I've got, you know, this 4k video here, and we need it there

00:54:51   on your machine, because you're the one who's going to edit it, how do we move this big,

00:54:55   you know, multi gigabyte video over there with if you don't have USB reader? I mean,

00:55:00   It's the sneaker net problem has still never gone away.

00:55:03   Like, cause eventually you're going to run into something where the files are big enough,

00:55:08   where you can't reliably shoot them over the air at each other.

00:55:13   Yeah.

00:55:14   And I don't know, I guess, I guess I would look at that and I don't know.

00:55:18   I mean, has Apple implicitly promised that you won't need backs anymore?

00:55:23   Cause I don't know.

00:55:24   I don't feel like that's on the table at all.

00:55:25   I think what they're saying is we're giving you, I mean, not, not, not to go back to,

00:55:29   I-- like SirQsa, I think automobile analogies often

00:55:33   fall short.

00:55:33   But there are times when the car versus truck analogy

00:55:36   does make a lot of sense, I think.

00:55:38   But yeah, I mean, like, in any profession,

00:55:42   you choose the tools that you need and like to use

00:55:46   and work best for you, and you get great at them.

00:55:48   And in that case, yeah, that's a place where they got

00:55:50   room to improve, for sure.

00:55:54   I mean, I don't know.

00:55:55   I don't know what the next step looks like.

00:55:56   I would love to be a fly on the wall

00:55:58   to see what

00:56:01   IOS

00:56:02   as an interface looks like in the next two years. I think it's really fascinating

00:56:06   to think about where they're going to go next.

00:56:08   This device, this new iPad I've got, is now fast enough

00:56:12   that I, for the first time, it doesn't feel

00:56:15   onerous to create, what's the technical name for it, when you drag

00:56:19   over to the right and you pull up a second app.

00:56:22   What is that called? I don't know.

00:56:25   I know what you mean.

00:56:26   I don't use it much because it's kind of a pain.

00:56:29   Honestly, this is one area where they can--

00:56:32   so let's go back to this earlier thing.

00:56:34   Let's show some capabilities.

00:56:36   Here's a really cool capability.

00:56:37   Let's say you're looking at Safari

00:56:39   and you want to make some notes for a report that you're doing.

00:56:41   So you drag notes up to the right.

00:56:43   You can change how wide it is.

00:56:44   That's really cool.

00:56:45   It's not difficult, but it's not crazy easy.

00:56:48   And it's certainly not crazy fast.

00:56:50   And if it's not already in the doc,

00:56:52   you're going to need to do-- do you remember the theatrics you

00:56:54   would have to do with two fingers to get stuff up from the dock. I personally did not spend

00:56:58   a ton of time on it. I don't even know the name of it. I just don't use it that much.

00:57:01   I believe to a certainty there are people who do. What I noticed last night, just for

00:57:06   fun I said, "Oh, I'll just grab this thing from the dock and pull it over." Talk about

00:57:10   butter smooth, that worked great. But the basic concept of how you get to stuff that's

00:57:15   not in the dock is still not surpassingly pretty. And I don't know what that's going

00:57:19   to look like, let alone how we're going to see all the pipes and wires underneath that

00:57:22   in the next two years that would accommodate things like your Lightroom thing you're talking

00:57:27   about. Yeah. And I, I, I wanted to talk about this multitasking thing because again, I don't

00:57:32   doubt that there are people who swear by it, but to me it never seems worthwhile and I'll

00:57:37   just through observation I can point out, like I said, my wife is an avid iPad user.

00:57:41   It is her main computer. She spends more time, like she even gets the reports now, you know,

00:57:46   with the screen time, screen time. Yeah. I mean, and you know, her, her, she doesn't

00:57:51   use her phone a lot. She's just not a big phone nerd like I am my phone numbers are

00:57:56   gross. You know, it's like 200 pickups a day or something. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, I don't

00:58:02   like that number. Well, I don't mind it. I'm not embarrassed by it. Of course. I'm not

00:58:06   surprised by it. So it's, you know, it doesn't bother me to look at it. I'm fully accepted

00:58:13   that I look at my phone all the time, but her iPad numbers are huge. She never uses

00:58:16   the multitasking features. She uses it the way the iPad to me was intended all along

00:58:21   where it is one thing at a time and it takes up the whole screen. But I also think though

00:58:25   that it is kind of weird. Like, like what do you use for Twitter? Do you do? I use the

00:58:31   tweet bot everywhere. Oh, you don't want to know. Okay. When I'm doing stuff for myself,

00:58:35   I usually use the Twitter app. When I'm doing stuff for my shows, I use tweet bot on, on

00:58:40   iOS, but it, the 12 point, that's not very fashionable, but I, I do, I do like some,

00:58:46   aspects of the regular Twitter app. But yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I always use

00:58:51   tweet bot in a in a relatively narrow window, like, effectively like a phone, you know that

00:58:57   whether I'm on a Mac or anywhere else, it's Twitter is a thing to me that goes in a long

00:59:02   skinny window. messages like when I'm messages doesn't make a ton of sense. I accidentally

00:59:08   hit whichever laws inch green, yellow, red laws and makes it fill the screen. I was a

00:59:12   aghast. It's not good for that. It's just it. It's not good because you get like, there's

00:59:19   you just get these crazy long lines of text that are actually unpleasant. You know, there's

00:59:25   there's a reason why books don't have 200 lines of characters, 200 characters per line.

00:59:31   It's supposed to be kind of skinny so that the paragraphs wrap to a certain size. Your

00:59:35   I wanted to be about 65 karat. Right. And there's no good way like when you've got the

00:59:39   12.9 inch iPad in laptop mode, you know, you got it connected to the keyboard, there's

00:59:44   no good way to just have your Twitter client be a skinny window. Like you've got to even

00:59:48   to make it skinny, you've got to set up a second app to, you know, that may or may not

00:59:53   go with it. I don't know, I find the whole thing very, very convoluted. I feel like Apple

00:59:58   has over I don't know, it's very hard for me to express it, but I just can't help but

01:00:02   think that it's too clever by far.

01:00:05   Oh, I agree. And again, it's very important this particular week that I keep all of my

01:00:12   friends and say, "Yes, I have no doubt at all that there are people using multiple sets

01:00:16   of multiple windows." But you know, the nice thing is also that I feel like there is a

01:00:21   – I overuse this phrase – I feel like there's a little bit of a sleeping giant

01:00:23   out there, because I wonder how much people use extensions. Extensions do so much. Let's

01:00:29   Let me put it differently.

01:00:30   There are not that many occasions

01:00:32   when I need to persistently look at two different apps

01:00:35   on an iPad.

01:00:36   It certainly happens, and it's convenient,

01:00:37   but honestly, what I need is a conduit

01:00:40   for moving information from one place to another.

01:00:43   I mean, the one thing that's been there

01:00:44   for a couple, three years now

01:00:45   that I think is just dynamite is,

01:00:47   in your case, you do all your stuff in Notes.

01:00:48   I do my stuff mostly in drafts

01:00:50   or the increasingly moribund elements,

01:00:54   but what is great is if it's getting around holiday

01:00:56   birthday time, I could be looking at the web and I'm on a page, an Amazon page or whatever

01:01:02   page, and I can hit that little up arrow and send that to the shared note with my wife.

01:01:06   It makes a smart card and it drops that in as this beautiful clickable thing that we

01:01:11   can share now. Or I could send it to messages or I could do whatever. John, I know that

01:01:15   extensions is there and I could bet you like Street Fight style. I use extensions more

01:01:19   than 80% of other users. I still forget that I don't need to copy the URL out of Safari

01:01:25   to put it into messages.

01:01:27   All I need to do--

01:01:28   I mean, if you want to send your wife a YouTube video,

01:01:31   how do you do it right now on your phone?

01:01:33   Do you use the extension?

01:01:35   Yeah, I think I do.

01:01:36   See, I'm trying to wean myself off the copy and paste.

01:01:39   But like, per 25 minutes ago, that's a very 1991 thing to do.

01:01:45   The extensions change the game.

01:01:47   So for me, extensions and the swipey at the bottom--

01:01:50   I love the swipey bottom gesture to get between--

01:01:53   that's a terrible--

01:01:54   I know exactly what you mean. I love it. No.

01:01:56   - The swipey bottom is like for me,

01:01:58   the way that I get around the swipey uppy

01:01:59   to move between cards or move between apps.

01:02:02   I use those two a lot,

01:02:03   but they're for two very specifically

01:02:06   different kinds of things.

01:02:07   One is I need to move information

01:02:09   from one place to another.

01:02:10   Try to make yourself remember

01:02:12   there's probably an extension for that

01:02:13   'cause it will save you so much time and effort.

01:02:16   I'm real good at hitting.

01:02:17   Instapaper is my first icon

01:02:19   in most of the apps on the left.

01:02:21   So I'm always adding stuff to Instapaper

01:02:23   that I occasionally read,

01:02:24   But that's really easy to do.

01:02:25   As far as the moving between apps,

01:02:27   that's usually because I wanna be doing

01:02:29   something different now,

01:02:30   or I wanna see something different now.

01:02:31   But I don't know, I mean, the demo value

01:02:36   of having those two apps open at the same time is very high.

01:02:39   I just have not found that many cases

01:02:41   where it's worth the effort to make it happen.

01:02:43   - Yeah, do you use Command + Tab on the iPad?

01:02:45   - Heavily.

01:02:46   - Yeah, but I don't-- - Right now, I've got,

01:02:48   right now, are you talking about using external keyboard?

01:02:51   - Yeah, using it, like usually, you know, with the iPad,

01:02:52   It's the Apple keyboard.

01:02:55   - I've got this thing, I've had this for years.

01:02:57   Right now, sitting on my desk, I have the Logitech K760.

01:03:00   It's not by any stretch.

01:03:01   I have many, many of these Bluetooth keyboards.

01:03:04   This is the one I just happen to keep at work

01:03:05   'cause it's not as loud as my DOS.

01:03:08   And it's got the dingus where you can hit

01:03:11   the different Bluetooth keys to move between devices.

01:03:14   I just, I feel like people would,

01:03:17   their minds would be blown if they realize,

01:03:19   on the one hand how much stuff you can do with a keyboard

01:03:22   like a full feature keyboard not just the folio one a full feature keyboard

01:03:26   on an iPad in particular and as always with these things then what you end up

01:03:31   discovering is you discover how much you more you wish it could do

01:03:34   but it is very very powerful there are apps like so sometimes open up drafts

01:03:38   a recent copy of drafts and hit the show me

01:03:41   show me available keys what is that I don't even know command

01:03:45   a question mark or whatever yeah it'll blow it has multiple pages

01:03:48   things you can do with the keyboard and dress you have to go to pages to see all the stuff you can do

01:03:52   to answer your question. Yes, that I use that a lot by and large, especially with the smaller one,

01:03:57   I mostly use it in my hands. Right now I have the big boy sitting in front of me.

01:04:01   But I don't you think it's weird. I think it's weird that when you're command tabbing in the

01:04:06   iPad that when you have two apps multitasking together side by side in the command tab

01:04:11   interface, they're sort of married together. It's I don't know why it just gonna show you how often

01:04:17   I do this so I'm gonna go recreate what you're talking about right now. It's just a weird thing

01:04:21   like and so if you've got like Safari on the left and and like you said notes on the right because

01:04:27   you're taking notes about a thing that you're reading and it's helpful to have them side by

01:04:30   side but if you just want to keep Safari where it is on the left and then replace the thing on the

01:04:34   right with oh if your focal in the right one if your cursor is in the right one and you switch you

01:04:40   think that should change out I don't know I don't know what they should do it just seems to me like

01:04:44   they should rethink the whole thing. And I know that there were rumors of a major iPad interface

01:04:51   update for iOS 12 that got shelved last year on the grounds of let's just focus on reliability and

01:04:59   making the whole system, let's punt for a year on these UI changes and just make what we have work

01:05:07   better. And hats off to Apple. There were- Oh, yes, yes, yes. I love those years. I love the S

01:05:13   years. Well, I bet you know, like, I remember, like when when I was 12, shipped a month or two ago,

01:05:17   and people, you know, like, a couple of reviewers, like, put it on an older iPhone. And indeed,

01:05:23   it was faster. You know, it's like, I mean, my daughter's success. Right? Real, real speedy.

01:05:29   Yeah. So it's, and that was great that what they said they were going to do, and they did it,

01:05:32   but it's, I can't help but hope, I seriously hope that they have really big ideas for the

01:05:38   iPad interface in terms of multitasking and stuff like that. Because I just feel like

01:05:43   the way things stand right now, it's—I don't know. It still seems to me like the

01:05:48   native way to do everything is just go to the home screen, tap an icon, have it fill

01:05:53   the screen, go back to the home screen.

01:05:55   Steve McLaughlin Well, and so let me just throw this back at

01:05:59   you one more time. Why is that? That's because you probably had some kind of smartphone in

01:06:03   the past, but definitely you fell in love with the iPhone, right? And using the iPhone

01:06:07   is how you started.

01:06:08   - No, I never had a smartphone before the iPhone.

01:06:10   - Never at all.

01:06:10   You always had a feature phone.

01:06:12   - Yeah, like a $10.

01:06:13   - But the point being, once you got on an iPhone,

01:06:15   you never looked back.

01:06:16   And so that's like, even to this day,

01:06:18   there's still things I need to unlearn

01:06:20   based on nine years at that time of using an iPhone.

01:06:24   It's crazy.

01:06:25   Affinity Designer for iPad by Serif

01:06:28   is the name of that app, by the way.

01:06:30   - Those guys are amazing, the Affinity people.

01:06:32   - This thing's crazy.

01:06:35   I'll put it in notes.

01:06:36   - All right.

01:06:37   I just typed it in the note, but whatever.

01:06:38   - Wait, undo, undo.

01:06:42   Oh no, it just works.

01:06:45   - Here, let me take a break here

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01:08:46   And can I share this? Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I just want to share something kind of nerdy

01:08:50   that literally only your listeners would be interested in. I just sent you a link in text

01:08:55   to a Squarespace site. It's not the prettiest because I haven't updated it lately, but really

01:08:59   it's just a ham and eggs way for me to share playlists with people. So when I go and I

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01:09:09   I don't like using HTML. So I just sent you another image that I would like you to look

01:09:14   at. So when I want to update my page, I don't even use the WYSIWYG. I write everything in

01:09:21   Markdown in NV alt. I keep that in one running file and then I copy and paste that and I

01:09:27   I just drop it into a big markdown field and that's how I update the page.

01:09:31   I don't know if everybody knows you can do that, but if you prefer to work in markdown,

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01:10:00   That's, they used to be a whole career, John, having everything look good on every device,

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01:10:45   next time you need a website, look at this. I've put a link to this thing in the show notes. Look

01:10:49   Look at this cool site Marlon has.

01:10:50   Easy to update.

01:10:51   - Oh, come on.

01:10:52   - No, but it's, but if you--

01:10:54   - It's made me lazy.

01:10:55   - Right. - It's made me lazy, John.

01:10:56   When I used to have to do everything by hand

01:10:58   in movable type especially, I was constantly tweaking

01:11:01   and now I'm just like, eh, they'll get it.

01:11:02   They're gonna look at it on a phone anyway.

01:11:03   Like, I'm not gonna spend tons of time on this

01:11:06   and that's exactly what I want.

01:11:08   What I want is a way to dump information onto the web

01:11:10   that people can get and I don't spend the rest of my life

01:11:13   wondering why the gray lines don't match up in Firefox.

01:11:17   It's like, ah, thank you.

01:11:18   I'm so glad to be out of that world never looked back never looked back John. Oh, I used to think it was fun

01:11:23   Wasn't time man, you know movable type was so great every every website was a house of cards where oh

01:11:31   100% and every design you would finally you'd be like but but in button ie

01:11:37   the the box doesn't

01:11:39   The two lines don't meet in the corner and then you'd fix it and then you'd go back and it was suddenly broken everywhere

01:11:45   You forgot to manually assign a font face to every cell in the table.

01:11:49   What? That's how we used to live. Miserable.

01:11:54   Table layouts.

01:11:56   Oh my god. Well, you remember every TD, the time was, if you wanted to look good on Netscape,

01:12:01   every TD, if you wanted to use style sheets like some kind of nut from the future,

01:12:05   you had to have font face equals in every one of those in order for it to render correctly.

01:12:09   Nice, nice, lean code.

01:12:13   It was funny though because with table layouts they did they they were more likely to look the same everywhere

01:12:19   Like when we switch seen it changed the game seen it changed everything like wait a minute

01:12:25   Wait, how'd you make just the left side of the page yellow? How did you do that?

01:12:27   Haha, you've solved my yellow background riddle

01:12:31   Alright, so you bought the whole kit with this. I pet you got you got you got your iPad. How many gigabytes did you buy? I?

01:12:38   went with

01:12:41   Shame on Apple for these levels. I went with 512 because you wanted

01:12:45   Well, what do you think?

01:12:48   Right, there's a lot

01:12:51   Every time John every time I say now this is gonna be the one I keep in use for five years every time I tell myself

01:12:56   You can treat yourself right like you got it. You got to get the good one, right? I bought the

01:13:01   What's the maximum for the iPhone 512?

01:13:04   I think that max for iPhone is 512 and I bought that because I've always fun. I did too

01:13:08   But I seriously started doing the math on how much like 4k video I would need to shoot before it even came close and it

01:13:15   Right. It really is sort of a waste of money. I really it's like I forget how much storage I'm using especially with the iCloud

01:13:22   photos thing where

01:13:25   Once if you're you know, and I'm all in on the iCloud photo, so I don't need my whole photo library local on the phone

01:13:31   It won't crack. Yeah, I don't even want it. So I I really don't know why I bought the big guy

01:13:35   I'm still I'm still running into friends and I mean I get this in my own damn family where I'm supposed to be the CTO

01:13:41   And taking care of everything and I'm like, I just be like honey

01:13:43   You you haven't up you haven't updated your OS or plugged in your iPad in like weeks

01:13:48   Like it's everything's you're signed out of everything like what is happening?

01:13:52   But then you go and you get all signed in and everything and like I still run into this not so much in our household

01:13:57   But and I will still encounter people

01:13:59   I haven't seen this one or more but you remember it was even fairly

01:14:03   Recently that people wouldn't be able to update their OS because they were out of room. Yes. Yes

01:14:09   Yes, that was that couldn't have been more than two or three years ago. Yeah, it was a big problem ultimate

01:14:13   it was a big problem when they were selling 16 gigabyte devices because that's right because yeah a

01:14:17   Significant portion of your 16 gigabytes was the OS, you know, the OS was five six gigabytes

01:14:23   So you really you didn't have much whereas if you buy even at 64 even if you know

01:14:28   Which is now like the small size the fact that the OS takes up four gigabytes

01:14:32   It's most of that 64 is still your space. It's it just wasn't the case with 16

01:14:37   And yeah, that would that's a weird problem to be in you don't have enough room. You have to delete that's so it's so

01:14:44   Some like what five different angles three different angles. They've addressed that with offloading

01:14:49   you either need to delete photos of your daughter or yeah, or

01:14:54   How much do I want? How much do I want to not get hacked or I'm gonna need a minute, right?

01:15:02   Those videos add up though, buddy.

01:15:03   Whoo!

01:15:04   When you shoot video, just out of curiosity, when you shoot video on your, you're on a

01:15:09   XS?

01:15:10   Yep.

01:15:11   What do you, see, I had been on, I'm not sure why, I was on Peter Jackson settings.

01:15:15   I used to be on, I think I was on 1080 at 60, but then I heard the HDR only works on

01:15:23   30 or slower.

01:15:24   Yeah, so I switched back, yeah.

01:15:26   That HDR is pretty bananas.

01:15:29   combining the first shot, the thing I shot like that, I did the auto HDR and I think

01:15:33   it was the first thing I shot on a phone that was shooting in stereo as well. Yeah. And

01:15:38   I was, uh, I'm not gonna say I like fell over, but I was like, wow, that the two of those

01:15:43   things together was surprising. Real surprisingly realistic. Yeah. The HDR, the auto HDR for,

01:15:50   I mean, I was shooting straight at the sun. So like in San Francisco, you get a lot of

01:15:54   fog and some sun and like it you know it looked a little little tricky and gamey but it worked

01:15:59   and it sounded just the sound of me like walking down the street sounded amazing i've i've been

01:16:03   shooting uh 4k 24 frames per second i wish i'm an upgrade i wish that it was easier to switch though

01:16:11   um like i kind of i get it you know i i do think that apple's camera ui team is one of the best

01:16:20   teams they have. The Verge even had a story recently about how it's like the camera app

01:16:25   UI design from iOS 7 going forward, like when they went to the new style is like the most

01:16:31   influential UI design of the last 10 years because everybody copies it. And, you know,

01:16:37   part of it is the shamelessness with with which some of these Chinese companies will

01:16:40   just copy anything.

01:16:41   Jared Ranere: A little pop up with the fake AirPods. Hilarious.

01:16:46   What do they call it? Q pods or like ear earbud or something like that. Fly pods, fly pods,

01:16:54   fly pods, fly pods. Yeah. But part of it is that it's such a good design and once you've

01:17:00   seen it, you can't unsee it. And I get it. And my God, is there an app that that on the

01:17:07   on the entire phone that more people use than the camera app? I mean, even with like, I

01:17:13   I guess messages maybe.

01:17:14   I mean, everybody uses messages,

01:17:16   but there's some parts of the world where people,

01:17:18   because they don't use text or iMessage,

01:17:20   there's some parts of the world

01:17:21   where even iPhone users are using what--

01:17:23   - If I had to name this today,

01:17:25   10 years, 11 years on,

01:17:26   I would call this,

01:17:27   I would say this is a camera that happens to have a phone.

01:17:29   - Right, it's absolutely true.

01:17:31   And most people use the system camera app.

01:17:34   And even like an expert,

01:17:36   like there's like the Halide,

01:17:37   if you know what Halide is.

01:17:38   - Halide is correct.

01:17:39   Halide is worth spending some time with.

01:17:42   I know you're a stock camera guy,

01:17:43   but if you have some time and you know

01:17:45   you're gonna be able to get everything the way you want,

01:17:47   Halide is crazy.

01:17:49   - I love it.

01:17:50   - The control you get in Halide is nuts.

01:17:51   - But even if you use Halide for all of your photos,

01:17:55   Halide only does photos, it doesn't do video.

01:17:57   So you're still going to the system app to shoot video.

01:17:59   I get it that they're trying to keep it

01:18:03   as usable as possible for those 800 million people

01:18:08   who aren't camera nerds,

01:18:10   yet still give, have some features in there

01:18:12   that are as powerful as possible.

01:18:14   So I get it why you can't switch the video format

01:18:17   in the camera app, you know,

01:18:18   that you've got to go to settings and then camera

01:18:21   and then shoot video.

01:18:22   It's not the worst thing in the world.

01:18:24   But when you're right there in the camera,

01:18:26   ready to shoot something, and like, for example,

01:18:29   I shot a little bit of video, I don't even know why,

01:18:32   but I've shot a little bit of video inside the theater

01:18:37   at last week's event while we were waiting,

01:18:39   you know, everybody taking their seats.

01:18:41   And it was very dark.

01:18:43   It's a theater, you know, but it's 20 at 4K.

01:18:47   It was actually so little light

01:18:50   that it wasn't exposing the video right.

01:18:52   You know, so I wanted to switch to 1080,

01:18:54   which would let, you know, the video was, it was usable.

01:18:58   - You gotta do that in settings.

01:18:59   - Yeah, and it just, right there in the moment,

01:19:02   it just felt like, oh, what a pain in the ass.

01:19:04   Switch to settings, poke around,

01:19:06   you gotta scroll down to get the camera, you know, it's--

01:19:09   That's true, but that you so you're thinking maybe they don't want it to that you could

01:19:12   do some kind of a little left right carousel slider like well, like when you're shooting

01:19:17   24 k 24 frames per second that there is a little thing in the camera app that says hey

01:19:23   24 k 24 frames per second so that you know what what mode you're in. I kind of wish I

01:19:28   could just tap on that and then have it get a pop up. Yeah, I get a pop up. I get why

01:19:33   they don't but it you know and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people have

01:19:38   no idea that you can change from the default you know they just shoot and

01:19:42   it's the settings boy the settings I might I have one thing to say about

01:19:46   settings I have lots of things to say about settings my one piece of advice

01:19:49   about settings is start scrolling up to down to get the search field you're

01:19:54   gonna make your life so much better like use the search field don't click there's

01:19:58   so much stuff in settings and it's so bananas every time I want to back up I

01:20:02   can't remember what area to go to for that now to make sure it's backed up like I did

01:20:07   last night just go flip from you know you don't talk about how would you describe that

01:20:11   you're in settings and there's the sections of settings on the left just drag down a little

01:20:16   bit and you'll get a search I know you know this all of you very smart doobies know this

01:20:21   but you'd be amazed how people don't know you can search for any area and settings rather

01:20:25   than having to remember and click I wonder if this if that's the sort of thing I wonder

01:20:29   if that's something you can do in shortcuts. I just suddenly dawned on me like I have you

01:20:34   been have you been into the shortcuts thing? I definitely wanted to talk to you about I'm

01:20:37   very Yeah, I don't want to say about cameras too. But the I love the idea of shortcuts

01:20:42   and I'm glad my friends are excited about it. It's, it's it's a little cute. And there

01:20:48   are some things that are very cool. I've seen people do if you see most of the Matthew kasalini,

01:20:55   you see people do the most amazing stuff with it. I go that's cool. But like all mine are

01:20:59   real like monkey stuff like show me this particular perspective in OmniFocus. You know, real,

01:21:05   real basic stuff that my, my, my, my short take on my short take on shortcuts is it's

01:21:11   neat. I'm glad it exists. If anything, I think it will remind people what they could already

01:21:16   be doing with Siri that they didn't know about. You can already do a ton of this stuff with

01:21:19   Siri. You don't need to make a shortcut for a lot of this. I mean, here's how it was a

01:21:23   little put it this way. How many people know that if you use the app deliveries by June

01:21:28   you can say, Hey, dingus open deliveries. I don't think now,

01:21:32   I think people don't know that people who have a watch may remember that,

01:21:37   but like really get good with that stuff before you worry about saying like,

01:21:41   you know, you know, remember to flip, flip the dog at 7 25 PM.

01:21:45   If this condition is met,

01:21:46   like I'm glad people are going to realize because of that,

01:21:50   but I'm very happy to use other people's for some stuff, but,

01:21:54   Oh, how do I say this? And so Siri gets so much better.

01:21:58   There's no point. I mean, there's so much I still can't add a thing to OmniFocus from my watch. The HomePod is just it's sounds good. But like I'm not going to invest a ton more in automation with my voice on this platform. When Alexa Alexa stop when the Amazon

01:22:15   dingus. When the Amazon ecosystem is so much more capable and getting better every Friday afternoon.

01:22:21   I'm going to spend so much more time with that. Well, that's a separate discussion, but I will

01:22:27   say the last thing about camera. Look, I see the last thing about camera. You go ahead and say what

01:22:30   you're going to say. All I want to say about camera is like, wow, it's just so amazing to

01:22:33   look at stuff we shot in 2007 2008. My gosh, it's gotten better. But the thing I keep saying to my

01:22:38   co-host on Dubai Friday, like we all bought the new phones, the thing I just keep saying, I keep

01:22:42   keep sending them photos and marveling and saying, they, I don't know what combination

01:22:47   of the hardware, the lenses, the software, that's certainly a huge part of it's got to

01:22:53   be software, but this sounds so dumb, but you really got to see it. You know, even in

01:22:58   fairly weird conditions, it gets a shot you're going to love. And so with a camera on your

01:23:05   phone and your kids doing something funny, you're going to be shocked how often it not

01:23:09   only gets it but it gets it real good and you know what it's not gonna be the

01:23:14   greatest photo ever taken that you're just grabbing your phone you're hitting

01:23:17   the button do a long press and hit it but you know what my daughter had a six

01:23:20   girl sleepover for her birthday and we went to the park to watch Coco there

01:23:24   Shawn Coco in the park it was real foggy out typical like October night in San

01:23:29   Francisco and I got the coolest moody shots by sitting mostly trying to be

01:23:33   kind of still but it got it it got the shot it got the HDR you can see the pink

01:23:38   of the jacket and the gold and the white and the and there's still a little bit of frizz

01:23:43   and the details on the leaves, but you can see it. And if you zoom in, yes, you're going

01:23:47   to see there's some noise. What am I trying to say? They have nailed the camera in your

01:23:51   pocket thing so hard. And whatever trade offs they made to like the world's greatest quality,

01:23:56   if you meet these conditions, they have made the snapshot camera of my dreams. Yeah. I

01:24:03   - I think that they feel that responsibility too,

01:24:06   that they know that however much

01:24:09   that there are professionals--

01:24:10   - Every second, every millisecond it takes

01:24:12   for that thing to flip on, you're losing memories.

01:24:15   - Right, and they realize that most people,

01:24:18   there's quibbles that somebody who really,

01:24:21   even at our level of being amateur is that we can explain

01:24:24   how the smart HDR can sometimes create

01:24:28   unnatural looking results.

01:24:30   It's as much, you know, but that it's still,

01:24:33   If you're shooting directly into the sun,

01:24:35   if you're doing that,

01:24:36   the unnaturalness of the results with this Smart HDR

01:24:41   is still better than having it all blown out

01:24:44   and having an unusable image, right?

01:24:47   It's still doing the right thing.

01:24:49   - People who don't know to just keep the light behind you,

01:24:52   keep the light behind you

01:24:53   and you'll generally have better results.

01:24:55   I feel so bad when you walk around and somebody says,

01:24:57   "Oh, can you take a picture of us?"

01:24:58   I'm like, "Of course, I'd love to take a picture of you."

01:24:59   And I've instantly, even with my tiny bit of skills,

01:25:02   I'm like, well, I'll tell you what, right now it looks like that light post is coming

01:25:06   out of your head and be kind of nice that the bridge was centered by friends and I'm

01:25:11   like art directing it because I know the shot they want me to take of them standing in front

01:25:15   of the theater marquee with the sun pointing at the camera is going to make everybody look

01:25:20   terrible.

01:25:21   You're not going to have anything usable in that image.

01:25:22   But friend of the show, Craig Hockenberry was telling a story a couple of minutes when

01:25:25   this feature first came out.

01:25:26   He's in it.

01:25:27   He lives out in California, Southern California.

01:25:28   an avid swimmer. And he was I think he swims almost either every day or almost every day

01:25:33   in the ocean in the ocean. And it's beautiful Southern California. So guess what? It's sunny

01:25:38   every day. Yeah, it started as a conversation about the watch. But we were talking about

01:25:42   smart HDR. And he just said that, you know, for years, he would go swimming and either

01:25:46   like as he's going in the water coming out, he'd see, you know, some family or some tourist,

01:25:51   somebody's there at the beach shooting a picture right into the sun. And every single time

01:25:55   He wants to eat, you know, and he's a very nice guy. And he, you know, but you can't

01:26:00   get it from his Twitter, but he's very calm, but quiet and kind and he wants to help. But

01:26:04   what are you going to do? You can't really, you know, you can't say, Hey, excuse me, I'm

01:26:08   a random six foot 10. California swimmer. Yeah, a German on the beach is not gonna accept

01:26:15   that. May I suggest that you flip this image around and you stand over here and you stand

01:26:20   over there just kind of think you're weird, even though what he's telling you is you'd

01:26:24   get a better image. So it will change the rest of your life as a photographer just learning

01:26:27   that one dumb thing. Right. And you know, but now that the cameras work better that

01:26:31   way, it's pretty amazing. Yeah. Anyway, that was my thing. Anyway, the shortcuts thing.

01:26:36   I Oh, yeah, you know me, I'm an Apple script nerd. And I've got the keyboard maestro. And

01:26:41   it's, it's big that that was sort of little fiddly things that I've done for myself over

01:26:45   the years and and carry around from machine to machine are big part of the whole reason

01:26:50   that I feel, you know, my whole I using an iPad feels like I'm typing with mittens, you know,

01:26:56   a big part of that is I've got all these little things on the Mac. And I see a lot of stuff into

01:27:01   services like I mean, yeah, tons of services. Yeah. When you go to that website where you turn

01:27:05   like a Perl script or whatever into a service like you're responsible for a lot of the serviceable

01:27:11   things there. Can I tell you, here's a cool shortcut I made. So it, you know, I've got so

01:27:15   many of those little services that do things with text that I you, you, if you want them

01:27:21   to have a keyboard shortcut, if you want to invoke them with a keyboard, it, you, you

01:27:25   wind up, I mean, I know that this is a problem you've had. Marilyn is when you start assigning

01:27:30   your own custom keyboard shortcuts to things, you eventually run into, you run out of keyboard

01:27:35   shortcuts to use and, and you start risking a conflict with the built in. You're going

01:27:40   start using your pinky a lot more right when you're for your Emacs like chords

01:27:45   right and when you use when you use an app like bbedit or drafts you know an app that is targeted

01:27:52   toward enthusiasts they have guess what they have a lot of built-in keyboard shortcuts already

01:27:57   but anyway so this trick that I figured out for myself is um you know how like when you're when

01:28:02   you open a menu like on a mac so you open the file menu you if you start typing something like you

01:28:08   you open the file menu. If you type n, it'll highlight the first item in the menu that

01:28:13   has starts with an n. So here in notes, you type n and it highlights new note. And then

01:28:19   you can select that with the return key. You can navigate the menu with the keyboard. So

01:28:24   what I did, I'm just like getting to the help menu, like command shift question mark, well,

01:28:27   or anything. So I've, that's another one, just command shift question mark and start

01:28:31   typing. It'll find anything. Yes. In a minute. That's what you're typing. That is a fast.

01:28:35   cool. But what I did is I made a keyboard maestro shortcut that opens the services menu from any app.

01:28:42   And then with that services menu open, it just leaves it open. So it just opens the services

01:28:50   menu. It just goes to I think I think the way the keyboard shortcut works is, I forget how I made it

01:28:57   I could tell you but how do you get the services from from any app with one thing, I forget how I

01:29:02   I did it but keyboard my sir has a way but then once that menu is open I can just type the name of any of

01:29:08   my services

01:29:09   And it'll start

01:29:11   So I have one I have a script I wrote called tweet deets and I was cute

01:29:18   but all it is is it expects as input a a

01:29:21   URL pointing to a particular tweet. So it's a URL that's like twitter.com slash

01:29:29   Whatever the guy's name is slash. Here's the big long number of the tweet ID

01:29:33   That's the input and then what this with the service does is it turns it into like a little markdown link with their real name

01:29:41   with the brackets around their name with the URL in the

01:29:45   Parentheses after the brackets and a colon and then it quotes the whole tweet itself and puts it in a look, you know with the

01:29:52   Okay, I use this

01:29:55   this all the time, but I didn't want to sign a custom shortcut. So all I do is I just have,

01:30:01   what I made is shift command X and that opens the services menu for me from any app. It's X because

01:30:10   X is the coolest letter of the alphabet and it's easily typed with one hand. And then I do that and

01:30:16   I don't have to memorize all these different shortcuts anymore. I just know the script is

01:30:19   called tweet deets. I type T W it's highlighted. I hit return and it runs. That's so great.

01:30:25   I've got Chrome extensions that do stuff like that. I've got there's several believe

01:30:30   I don't I imagine you're not a Chrome user there are several Chrome extensions that specialize

01:30:34   in doing cool stuff with markdown like what you just described with a with a keyboard

01:30:38   click.

01:30:39   I've heard that I'm not I'm not I'm not a Chrome user.

01:30:43   Chrome is so weird there's so much stuff that I don't understand like Chrome, Chrome,

01:30:48   Chrome, Chrome, like Chrome why don't you have standard UI elements where like I can

01:30:52   see stuff like

01:30:53   It makes me nuts

01:30:54   It's so weird.

01:30:56   And why is Chrome the only app where I hit Option Command H

01:30:59   and it doesn't hide the other apps?

01:31:01   Why is that?

01:31:01   I don't know.

01:31:02   Why is there so much that's weird in Chrome?

01:31:04   And what is happening?

01:31:05   What is happening with these tabs now?

01:31:07   These tabs, the tabs now-- the X on the tab--

01:31:09   Do you know that you can go back to the old UI?

01:31:12   Well, Syracuse says they might have changed it permanently.

01:31:14   I usually would go to flags.

01:31:16   But have you seen this latest where

01:31:17   they've got the X looks like-- Syracuse

01:31:19   and I were just talking about this on a soon-to-be-released

01:31:22   rectifs.

01:31:22   but like the X to close it looks like something

01:31:25   Jason Kotke designed as a mini font in 2000.

01:31:29   And then the thing next to it to launch a new tab

01:31:31   looks like the cross of St. John, like a flag.

01:31:34   - Yeah, see I can't look.

01:31:35   - And it hasn't been fully knocked out.

01:31:36   Like it doesn't, the transparency is not right.

01:31:37   It's so ugly.

01:31:38   - Send me a screenshot,

01:31:39   'cause I've got my Chrome set running the old Chrome UI.

01:31:43   - And then if you're not in the app, right?

01:31:45   If you're outside the app, but you can still see it,

01:31:49   tab that you were in is now red. Wait, what the hell is going on here? I'm trying to quit

01:31:56   Chrome and when I do command Q instead of quitting it shows me a thing that says hold

01:32:00   command Q to quit. Oh, are you sure you want to quit? Are you really sure? Oh, you see

01:32:05   you have to press and hold command. See that that's that should be illegal. That is not

01:32:10   how a Macintosh program works. Yeah, that's cheating. Okay, so here you go. Have a look

01:32:14   at this that is what my three open tabs look like when I'm outside of so I see

01:32:23   it I see it that's pretty not pretty almost all there's tabs there again we're

01:32:29   back to the CCC EEE problem what the hell is this it's carpet when did they

01:32:35   switch this well you like that red tab isn't that pretty why is it right you

01:32:39   like the cross of st. John right next to there and a completely different design

01:32:42   language and it's like above the baseline like it's above oh yeah yeah

01:32:45   yeah but you can almost tell if you look real carefully the feed Wrangler one

01:32:48   that's that's that's more of the EEE and then door - is more of the like that's

01:32:53   more FFF I guess but in this case the tab that is nominally focal if you were

01:32:59   in the app is gray it's really bizarre yeah

01:33:05   anyway here's what material is that what this is material I I guess so I got it

01:33:10   switch mine back. Anyway, here's where I wanted to go. The whole shortcut thing. I think I think I

01:33:16   have been old manning the shortcuts app in iOS 12. Meaning it's, it seems a little bit fiddly to me,

01:33:24   it seems a little ridiculous that you're doing quote unquote programming, but instead of just

01:33:28   typing, if this then that you've got like, these, you know, things you drag out, and it's, you know,

01:33:34   graphical instead of, you know, text and it therefore makes it a little bit harder to

01:33:41   just copy and paste and share it with somebody else. You've got to share it. And I think

01:33:45   I've been like, kind of rolling my eyes at it. But now the more for you, good for you

01:33:50   for catching that the more that I'm talking to people about it, though, I think I'm totally

01:33:53   underselling it. And so after that event last week, and when I told you I ran into Austin

01:34:01   man, the photographer, and he was like, Well, let's go get a cup of coffee. And I was like,

01:34:04   that'd be great. So we went and got a cup of coffee. Um, you know what? It wasn't even

01:34:09   coffee. It was beer. That's fine. I think about it, but it was, it was a cool place

01:34:15   in Brooklyn that looked like a coffee shop, but they also sold draft beer. Uh, and he

01:34:20   was showing me some of these shortcuts he's made. So he's, he said, I'm on airplanes a

01:34:23   lot. He's, you know, cause not only does he fly frequently when he does fly, he's flying

01:34:27   around the globe. And so there, he's got a lot of time where he doesn't have internet.

01:34:33   And he's really gotten into the shortcuts and he's built a bunch for himself and they

01:34:38   do some really amazing things so he can just say to his phone, hey, dingus, I forget what

01:34:43   he calls it, but it's like, put me into shooting mode. And then in other words, this is like

01:34:48   he's going to use his phone camera to shoot. And it does things like turns on do not disturb

01:34:57   sets his colors the way you know, the brightness to where he wants it, right. But the thing

01:35:00   Casey List does a similar thing like for nighttime shutdown. Yeah, I love that idea. Yeah, that's

01:35:05   a smart use. It's super smart. And it's it does more things than I thought would have

01:35:09   been available through shortcuts. And then he just has the habit now of every time he

01:35:13   starts shooting to do that. Because like one of the weird things about the iPhone and I

01:35:19   I really, really hope that Apple makes this an option next year because I think it's overdue

01:35:24   is I think they have to start treating stop treating an incoming phone call as this magical

01:35:30   You need to stop everything you're doing.

01:35:32   I totally agree.

01:35:33   We're taking over your second.

01:35:35   I mean, second only the only second for me there is like a video in an ad or on Twitter

01:35:44   or something hijacking your sound and losing your place in overcast.

01:35:47   Oh yeah, you're right.

01:35:49   But that's the there is no event that destroys everything like a phone call.

01:35:52   So you could be shooting something and you could it could be you know, you're getting

01:35:55   this great video footage and all of a sudden a phone call comes in and it's it's racked.

01:36:00   Oh my God, I hadn't thought of that. That's horrible. So you put on, so what you want

01:36:03   to do is you want to have do not disturb turned on and you want to go into your settings app

01:36:06   and change, do not disturb to, um, to always be on even if you're using the phone because

01:36:15   by default do not disturb. Don't ring, don't do by default. Do not disturb. Only doesn't

01:36:22   disturb if the phone is locked and off and if you're unlocked and actually using it,

01:36:27   assumes oh well you don't mind if you get notifications now because you're using the

01:36:31   phone even stuff like getting getting messages pop-ups like if i'm trying to watch tv right like

01:36:35   sometimes i'll flip on the ipad and just walk around with headphones listening to msnbc because

01:36:39   i'm broken inside and any kind of a pop-up for like a like a notification pauses hulu so i so

01:36:45   if you're saying anything that could kai wash my video make that stop yeah so he's and he's also

01:36:51   got one he made called uh uh share my contact and it just he just says to his phone share my contact

01:36:57   and then it pops open his contact card with airdrop and then anybody who's nearby and i was like wow

01:37:03   this is actually almost as easy to share contact information now as the newton was back in 1994.

01:37:09   You don't even have to bump.

01:37:10   Do you remember that you could just point two newtons at each other and they would you could

01:37:16   could like exchange business cards. It was magic. It was amazing teacher that we still

01:37:21   haven't replicated 25 years later. Big IR used to be there's so much stuff you use IR

01:37:25   for everything was here and it was pretty reliable anyway. We need to beam your contacts

01:37:30   anyway. I got it. I'm I'm I'm committing myself now to becoming a bit more of a shortcut nerd.

01:37:35   I think I've undersold it. I think I feel I feel bad now that I might have done the same

01:37:40   thing. I didn't mean I just it was more of a not for me right now thing not least because

01:37:44   I used to be Merlin man and I if I could spend all freaking day with shortcuts trying to make a thing happen

01:37:50   And it's like no I've reached a point in life. We're like I'm happy to let other people do that for me

01:37:55   I there's a million things. I want to remain curious about and a whole whole bunch of stuff

01:37:59   I'm happy being in curious about learning how to do computer programming in a UI on my phone is something

01:38:04   I'm okay to leave to the youngs

01:38:06   But I do agree with you. I do absolutely agree with you

01:38:10   I do still think it's weird, comma, with that said,

01:38:13   I do still think it's kind of weird

01:38:14   that you like watch the whole thing run.

01:38:16   It feels gross.

01:38:18   It feels, it feels, I don't know.

01:38:20   It just feels like you're playing that board game,

01:38:22   Mouse Trap.

01:38:23   - Yeah.

01:38:24   - It feels like you're dropping the marble down to watch.

01:38:26   It's like an OK Go video.

01:38:27   You're watching it spin around.

01:38:30   Yeah, but it's, no, the presence of it is amazing.

01:38:33   And I think decoupling it from the idea of using your voice,

01:38:37   'cause right now when we think of Siri,

01:38:38   what does Siri mean?

01:38:39   As we've said before, Siri means like at least three, four different things.

01:38:42   And getting to the point of this being a piece of automation,

01:38:45   bespoke automation that you can invoke various ways that will,

01:38:49   that will become very powerful. And like I say, people like that,

01:38:52   Matthew fella, he's doing some, he used to be at workflow, right?

01:38:55   And he's on his own now. He's amazing. He does just his,

01:38:59   you see his screens and screens and screens at these,

01:39:02   I think he's got like 200 of them on his phone. It is magic.

01:39:05   Yeah. But that's, see, that's a weird thing though. That's where you start.

01:39:07   starts getting weird because you can't make like folders in that app so if you have like 200

01:39:11   shortcuts there it's just like one list absolutely okay let's do this you want to talk about this you

01:39:16   want to talk about what we're using or you're mostly just publicly putting a line in the sound

01:39:20   i'm just publicly putting a line in the same that i'm gonna what do i use this for honestly i added

01:39:25   a bunch it was so funny it was like pat nos waltz politically incorrect joke about tivo back in the

01:39:30   day where when you when this first became available on the phone it was like you just typed do you

01:39:36   want soup for dinner to your wife do you want to do that again it's like no no Siri I don't want to

01:39:40   do that again I did it that one time I don't I don't need to do that again like why you keep

01:39:44   suggesting that I just type a thing I just type it's like when Amazon says hey you know you bought

01:39:48   orange shoe trees you want to buy more orange shoe trees and you're like no nobody I already got the

01:39:53   thing I need what have I got I've got oh I have started using e24 I know I should correct myself

01:40:00   I have not tried this yet, but they've added shortcuts to eat 24 like grubhub so you can like order your your go-to meal with your voice now. Mm-hmm

01:40:09   I got I definitely got looking at OmniFocus

01:40:13   Perspectives some are real dumb find my air pods very happy to have that

01:40:18   play overcast

01:40:21   Kill the lights

01:40:25   Find Ellie's phone

01:40:29   That's a good one. If you do real good way if yes, you know if it's something you do a lot now

01:40:34   I'm so you're into it. You're using it. It's oh, no. No, I definitely done it. No, here's what I haven't done

01:40:38   So what I've done is that I've taken their serving suggestions to go. Yeah, I could see that being useful

01:40:43   Well, you're going to overcast and he's got a whole codex in there of all the different things that you can do with it

01:40:47   I've got played you by Friday. I've got my late accidental tech podcast

01:40:50   Um, I got all of those but like the mainly, you know

01:40:53   Sometimes I just feel like a dingling and go like I forget and I'm good at this John. I'm good at this

01:40:58   Not like other people say I'm good at this and I know what I can do with Siri and I still don't always do it

01:41:04   Yeah

01:41:04   So like me like I say mainly it's reminding me that I can say things like open

01:41:08   deliveries or what time do the Warriors play tonight or whatever I can just do that stuff and

01:41:13   You know, hopefully Siri will continue to improve to to where you aren't frustrated by what you just asked him

01:41:19   Before we move on. Yeah

01:41:22   What do you think about this new keyboard cover for the iPad?

01:41:27   Well, I spent a grand total about one hour with it and it's fine for somebody

01:41:31   It's it's what did I say to you last night?

01:41:33   It was like it's like typing on a pizza box with children's candy for keys

01:41:38   Smart you see yeah smarties. Yeah. Yeah. It's like typing on smarties on a pizza box

01:41:45   It's fine if you need it, but like there are way better solutions

01:41:49   Yeah, also when you fold it back your hands are touching keys. Yeah, we're new design, right?

01:41:55   So the new design the old design had like a weird

01:41:58   Asymmetrical hump because there was a piece that folded over the keys

01:42:02   But that at least was there so that when you folded it just opened it like a book and you don't want it

01:42:08   You just want to use your iPad as an iPad while you've folded the keyboard cover around to the back

01:42:13   And now instead of having the cover

01:42:15   That the weird asymmetrical bump now, it's just exposed keys and that's kind of gross

01:42:22   It's weird it will it shuts off those like my first concern was oh my god

01:42:26   So you mean it's making keys clicks and it's like no no

01:42:29   No, they're smart about that

01:42:30   this thing has like I think it's about 750 magnets on it right and a whole bunch of tungsten and it's

01:42:35   It's got so many fucking magnets, but it uh, no, but when you flip it around you are merely just holding a keyboard

01:42:42   It's not causing the keyboard to happen, right? But

01:42:45   There are so many I don't know. I don't know it's weird

01:42:49   Like, you know, my old friend Leslie Harpold used to say, I hate buying toys for my toys.

01:42:53   You know, um, that that's, there is a concerning thing where you feel like you're getting a

01:42:57   lot of stuff in order to get any value out of the thing that you have.

01:42:59   I have no doubt in my mind that that's going to work fine for somebody who travels a few

01:43:03   times a month taking on a plane.

01:43:05   But you know, you're really, you're always not that far from being to the point where

01:43:09   you're like, why don't you just bring your Mac book?

01:43:10   Yeah, I, oh, that's, and I just, and I can't get over the fact that when you put an iPad

01:43:15   into laptop mode, it is so top heavy because you've got the whole computer and a glass

01:43:21   touchscreen sticking up and you've got like the super lightweight keyboard.

01:43:26   Yeah, which is really I mean, it's it's more so we'll get some kudos. The way that it

01:43:32   magnetically with its 750 magnets magnetically snaps into one of the two grooves. I was slightly

01:43:40   shocked last night when I went to fold it back up. And I went, huh, and I got this resistance.

01:43:44   I was like, oh you you got this you're not gonna just slip out of there like you used to that that that was great

01:43:49   The experience of typing on this is garbage. It's

01:43:53   $200 it has no media keys and it is not fun to type on it feels like you're typing on the side of a tent

01:43:59   It's like it's just it doesn't feel good. It's

01:44:02   Well, I know you tell me how much time have you spent with it? I'm guessing not a lot

01:44:07   No

01:44:07   I did I did write the first half of my iPad review using it and and at one point

01:44:13   It just got late in the night and I was like to hell with this

01:44:16   I'm gonna finish this on my on this Mac hair

01:44:19   Which I was also trying to spend time with to write a review the next day

01:44:22   The calls coming from inside the review products. Yeah, but now I I think it's better

01:44:28   I you know and I see that a lot of people like it

01:44:30   But it is yeah $200 is a lot like a lot of money for what you're getting there

01:44:35   when a lot of money I like it and I think that Apple did the right thing here by making the the sort of keyboard piece a

01:44:42   solid non foldable thing. You know that there are no more, you know,

01:44:46   there's no more origami involved to getting it set up.

01:44:48   You just sort of open it and it slots in just one of two positions and you're

01:44:53   done. And it really is more, see if it's the only case you ever use,

01:44:57   let's be honest, like, so like me, I tend to like just the folio or,

01:45:00   or no case at all when I'm just sitting around the house.

01:45:02   If it's the only case you ever use,

01:45:04   it probably won't bother you because you're used to the thickness, the weight,

01:45:07   the keys, right? Like if you were through word,

01:45:09   like most normal people spend $200 on something you intend to use for three

01:45:12   years every day I think you'll definitely get used to it yeah that's

01:45:15   what you've decided to do yeah totally it's just hard for me to go back and

01:45:19   forth between a MacBook and this because there's so many differences and yes you

01:45:24   know the truth is I prefer the MacBook for that for that sort of you know we

01:45:28   use the word laptop I mean and just literally describe the setup that I use

01:45:33   which will make everybody's eyes roll so hard into the like why don't you just

01:45:37   use your perfectly serviceable 2015 MacBook Pro territory.

01:45:42   Well, what's your scenario? I'm sorry, I interrupted you know,

01:45:45   well, I'm just saying we use the word laptop to mean, you know, I

01:45:48   try to use the word notebook computer rather than laptop. Oh,

01:45:52   interesting. Cuz laptop does imply an all in one. Yeah, but

01:45:54   but yeah, but it is true. Well, and that you I don't like the

01:45:59   way that it literally implies a certain use case of having the

01:46:02   computer on your lap. You know, so in general, I try to avoid it.

01:46:05   But I mean mental model you get you get stuck to some paradigmatic idea of where that came from in the same way you say

01:46:11   I felt but the truth is we do sometimes use our notebooks on our laps, you know, like when I'm on an airplane

01:46:16   I don't I prefer to have it on my lap than to have it on the tray. Mm-hmm

01:46:21   You know, I don't know that you know filthy that thing is the train

01:46:26   When I take the train to New York

01:46:28   Which I've done a lot recently because there's been a lot of Apple stuff in New York

01:46:32   Some of the seats on the train you can get like a little table and that's nice

01:46:35   And then there's others where it's more like a traditional just a train seat

01:46:39   I put the I put my computer on my lap and I'm actually using it as a quote laptop

01:46:45   And I think that this new iPad keyboard the smart keyboard folio

01:46:49   It is definitely better for the literal use case of using it on your lap. I think it's angry and that's great

01:46:55   But boy, it's it is kind of weird. I

01:47:01   I stole this set up directly from Jason Snell and boy is it farcical, but for when I'm in

01:47:06   the house and like there is a use case for me that is, I don't know, kind of weird, which

01:47:10   is like, I like to stand, I don't have a standing desk.

01:47:13   My current standing desk is using my daughter's a disused Ikea play kitchen.

01:47:17   I have an Ikea play kitchen I stand at as the perfect size for a standing desk.

01:47:20   Are you serious?

01:47:21   Yes, I'm serious.

01:47:22   My wife hates it.

01:47:23   She hates it so much.

01:47:24   She keeps saying, you think you'd like to get a real standing desk?

01:47:26   And I'm like, I kind of like the Ikea kitchen.

01:47:28   It's it's real.

01:47:29   But other times I do like to stand. I like to eat. There's, I'm not a big sitter.

01:47:35   I can either stand or lay down. That's how I roll. If I'm standing in the kid,

01:47:39   if I'm standing in the kitchen, listening to NPR, making dinner, I need to lay down. I like to have

01:47:42   my, I like to have my iPad and my keyboard at a level that is sensible to me. Oh, if you're ready

01:47:48   for the privilege white guy hour, I have done this with two iPads and it is extremely powerful.

01:47:52   Here's what I do. Um, mainly what I'm doing, the normal one iPad setup,

01:47:57   I have something. Let me read you the SEO optimized title for this on Amazon.

01:48:01   Viozon iPad Pro Stand Tablet Stands 360 Rotatable Luminalloid desktop. It's called Viozon.

01:48:10   And it's a very pretty Apple-esque looking stand. So just Viozon iPad. Try that on Amazon.

01:48:18   Or I could send you the link. Yeah, just send me the link.

01:48:21   Yeah, so and so the there has a what do you call a clasp an arm?

01:48:25   It's got a spring-loaded dingus that you open up to put your iPad in there any angle for viewing that you want

01:48:31   portrait landscape full full swivel any way you want and I pair that with the

01:48:36   Modius laptop Pro keyboard from Mac version 5. Hmm. I got the same one. That's the snow keyboard

01:48:42   That's the one that's snow keyboard now forever. No, and it's not it's not a DOS. It's not a full mod. Yes

01:48:48   But like once you started using this thing around the house and you get those media keys

01:48:52   Don't you think like the media keys it sounds so dumb, but they really are great

01:48:56   Yeah, this is this is my if I need to type on the iPad as a device. This is an incredibly

01:49:02   There's a slight latency on the Bluetooth

01:49:04   The weirdest thing I get out of the latency on the Bluetooth is once you start using your iPad with a keyboard

01:49:10   Let me tell you the world's greatest move is gonna change your game command

01:49:14   Spacebar you now are about three clicks away from any app on your iPad. Yeah provide using spotlight

01:49:20   It is ridiculously powerful. My biggest problem there is it will start the spotlight search

01:49:26   There's a slight latency where I miss the first or second letter that I've typed you ever get that. Mmm

01:49:31   I've never noticed that not too bad

01:49:32   But that's a that's a hell of a setup and I that for me that works

01:49:36   I there's not a lot of times by the nature of the iPad

01:49:39   There's not a lot of times when I want to be typing on a keyboard while I'm sitting somewhere

01:49:44   But isn't that so part of the weird?

01:49:46   the way that I struggled to talk about the

01:49:50   iPad as a power user is the weird way that I we just spent a huge segment of the show talking about how

01:49:56   Finicky it is to you know to do multitasking stuff on an iPad

01:50:01   But in another way it really feels when you have a keyboard connected to it and it's set up

01:50:05   It really feels like you can just fly around and that command space to do it

01:50:09   So you're not you're not worried about poking on the screen

01:50:12   You're not worried about which apps are in your dock or which you know

01:50:15   Oh, I want to get to this app, but it's not even on the first home screen

01:50:18   I'm it's almost like introducing quicksilver to to a device where suddenly your keyboard just ever you you you you

01:50:24   Switch your POV about how this thing works and it just flies

01:50:27   You mentioned the the app deliveries a while ago, which is a fantastic little app. It's it's I don't know what it costs

01:50:34   It's a couple of bucks

01:50:35   But and it's been around since it started life as a dashboard widget. Remember that sure did

01:50:39   Now it's a real app for iOS and for Mac and you just no matter who's shipping you something whether it's like

01:50:46   FedEx or UPS or the Postal Service if you've got a tracking number you copy it on for that matter

01:50:52   Yeah, you if you type in your Amazon and you're logged in with your email

01:50:55   You get the full details or you can even just type in a link to it and it'll know right?

01:50:59   So you copy the tracking number you go to deliveries and deliveries will be like hey

01:51:03   your clipboard looks like a UPS tracking number. Would you like to add an item?" And it couldn't

01:51:07   make it more easier.

01:51:09   And it syncs. And it syncs across everything.

01:51:11   Yeah, that's the thing. It uses iCloud for syncing and it's all rock solid. And whatever

01:51:16   you've entered on one machine shows up elsewhere. And I've got the…

01:51:19   The second you update it on your Mac, your watch will ding.

01:51:22   Yeah. And you can use the Today widget on your phone. So you just flip over to the side.

01:51:27   And if there's anything coming, it'll say, "Here's your things that are coming. It's

01:51:31   days away, it's one day away. And if there's nothing, then there's nothing. It's great.

01:51:35   Anyway, but that to me is a perfect type of app where like when you want to get to deliveries,

01:51:41   you want to get to it right now and just paste this thing in but you probably not going to

01:51:44   put it in your dock is like one of your most frequently used apps. So like the the the

01:51:51   the command space for spotlight, D e l return is it's phenomenal, but it really makes it

01:51:59   in some weird ways, even though you think like the iPad is the one that's a weird computer

01:52:03   with a keyboard, it's sort of meant to be used just as a touchscreen. It is kind of

01:52:08   awesome with a keyboard. Right? Oh, it's absolutely. And you'll never see one of the most interesting

01:52:15   parts of this you'll never see until you put a keyboard on there, which is the little tab

01:52:19   switcher. So like you're no longer so you don't have to do three swipes, bottom swipes,

01:52:24   To say you don't have to go three bottom swipes. He goes tab either command tab tick tick tick and it takes you right there

01:52:31   It's it's pretty wild if you've never used it. Yeah. Anyway, that's my take on the iPad. Hey Jake. It is a very

01:52:37   complicated

01:52:40   Very complicated pretty wild though

01:52:42   I mean boy just maybe a subtle change of a pretty wild is if I flip on the right Bluetooth thing

01:52:48   So that I'm now the keyboard is now hooked up to the iPad. I hit space

01:52:52   I book get my face a tiny bit closer and it logs me straight in without touching the screen

01:52:57   Isn't that insane with the camera on the side? Yeah, I did not explain that well to people you

01:53:03   If you're using a keyboard, you don't have to you don't have to touch anything except the keyboard

01:53:07   Yeah, just as it sees your face and knows who you are

01:53:09   you can just like double tap the spacebar and yeah, and it's it's exactly it's

01:53:13   It just like on the phone. I mean, I don't understand the people who who are ambivalent better about face

01:53:19   It's got I want to stipulate it has gotten way better

01:53:22   I do not I disagree wildly with you view fans who said that you stopped noticing it after a day

01:53:27   I never stopped noticing it, but then I think it was a software update. It wasn't the tennis

01:53:32   It was I think it was a software update. It has gotten way better and it's crazy fast on the iPad

01:53:37   Yeah, it's it really I honestly don't I really don't notice it hardly at all on the iPad if it's in the right position

01:53:42   It really feels like you don't have a passcode on your device

01:53:45   It just feels like it's always ready to go double tap the spacebar and I'm convinced

01:53:50   Apple hasn't mentioned this but I a couple of the reviews that I've read I didn't mention it in mine

01:53:54   But a couple of the reviews have read and they all say the same thing that I think it works at a greater viewing angle

01:54:00   Than the phone because it's like you don't even have to be square in front of the iPad

01:54:04   You can be off to the side a little bit and it still works. I've been using this part-time for 16 hours

01:54:09   So I definitely feel like I can say this at this point

01:54:12   I have a microphone in front of my face right now.

01:54:14   And if I move just the tiniest bit,

01:54:16   it has no problem seeing me.

01:54:17   I agree.

01:54:18   That was my beef, John.

01:54:19   It wasn't just, it wasn't the time it took

01:54:21   once it recognized you to unlock it.

01:54:24   It was the time it took to recognize you.

01:54:26   - Yeah.

01:54:27   - And I got a lot of false, like, oh, you got, no,

01:54:29   I need you to hold it here.

01:54:31   It's almost like you've got those index lenses

01:54:33   where I can see good far away here,

01:54:35   but I got to look down and hold it

01:54:36   in exactly the right spot here to read.

01:54:39   That's how I felt.

01:54:39   And I do agree with you.

01:54:41   I isn't that would be a strange thing not to announce. I ordered Oh, they don't want

01:54:46   the I didn't want the iPhone to look right. I think that might be it. I think they don't

01:54:49   want to say it has a better viewing angle. I will say based on my extensive use over

01:54:54   something like 16 hours. So far it has it has definitely it's much more. You know that

01:55:02   you know that $1500 phone we're selling? Yeah, this is better than that. I don't think they

01:55:07   - Yeah.

01:55:08   - I don't, you know.

01:55:09   But it is.

01:55:10   - I wonder if that came out of something they learned

01:55:13   or caused to happen out of the need

01:55:16   to change the way it detects a different,

01:55:19   how am I putting this, terrible.

01:55:20   - I don't know.

01:55:21   - If you want your iPhone to detect your face,

01:55:22   you have to hold it a certain way at a certain angle.

01:55:24   It can't be upside down, it can't be sideways.

01:55:26   Whereas the iPad just gets where your face is.

01:55:29   Do you think it's something--

01:55:30   - I don't know.

01:55:31   I don't know what the explanation is.

01:55:33   - Ask them, you know those jackals, ask them.

01:55:34   - Yeah, I'll ask.

01:55:36   All right, let me take another break here

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01:58:47   So I look, we're in two hours in, we haven't talked about this election two years ago.

01:58:52   We, I don't think it has to be too surpassingly long. No, uh, because I don't have, I don't have

01:58:57   that that much to say, but I think it's worth the, I think it's worth revisiting over the,

01:59:02   over the years you and I have done a few things that, that have achieved evergreen status, right?

01:59:07   Like we got two things, two things we've ever done that anybody cares about. Yeah. We talked

01:59:11   about blogs right around the time people stopped making blogs. Right. And we talked about the 2016

01:59:16   election when it was too late to do anything about it. So you're welcome, everybody.

01:59:19   An awful lot of remember to like and subscribe and have a lot of people who took the

01:59:23   2016 election as hard as we did. Really appreciated our show talking about it.

01:59:30   It seemingly has stood up there from people and you I've seen you know, people tweet at us or

01:59:36   something people like you know, I listened to it when it was new and it really helped.

01:59:39   And you know, from you know, middle of this July 2018. They're like, you know, I'd listen to it

01:59:44   it again just to see. And it was like, you know what, it really stands up. You guys did

01:59:47   a great thing. I'm going to listen to this episode every couple months forever. And it's

01:59:52   like, that's pretty impressive.

01:59:53   Jared Polin That feels good.

01:59:54   Dave Asprey Yeah. And we so we tried to talk about a polarizing

01:59:58   election in a non-polarizing way.

02:00:01   Jared Polin At first.

02:00:02   Dave Asprey At first.

02:00:03   Jared Polin You're not going to catch everybody.

02:00:07   Dave Asprey And, you know, there's a lot that's happened

02:00:10   in the last two years. There's a lot that's, as always with this, there's a lot that's

02:00:14   We're gonna be okay. John, you think we're gonna be all right.

02:00:16   There's a lot that's happened in the last two days.

02:00:18   I would like to please issue a correction and an apology.

02:00:22   We're not going to be fine. What the fuck was I talking about? I was whistling.

02:00:27   You were, you had had a holiday party.

02:00:28   I was very nervous and I was whistling past the graveyard and I said something

02:00:32   really, really stupid in the interest of comforting myself and our listeners,

02:00:35   which is, I said, I think we're going to be fine. I don't think we're fine.

02:00:38   I don't think we've been fine. I don't think we're going to be fine. And, uh,

02:00:44   We, you know, at that point I had lived with the election about as long as I've lived with

02:00:47   this new iPad pro, but we sure as shit aren't going to be fine.

02:00:52   No, it's just, it's not fine.

02:00:54   It is very bad.

02:00:55   You want to shoot?

02:00:56   Yeah.

02:00:57   Yeah.

02:00:58   Yeah.

02:00:59   Yeah.

02:01:00   Yeah.

02:01:01   Yeah.

02:01:02   You know, a lot of people aren't going to be fine.

02:01:03   I think it's worth acknowledging.

02:01:04   It wasn't fine.

02:01:05   It's not going to be fine.

02:01:06   I don't know if we'll ever be fine again.

02:01:08   Well, one of the things is that I get confused over. I want to simplify it. I want to simplify

02:01:15   my view of politics. I want to stop obsessing. I want to spend more time on talking about

02:01:23   new iPads and less time thinking about the destruction of the planet. And I think, well,

02:01:27   what's really important? Which one is important? And I think, well, and this is partly why

02:01:33   I was having a holiday party two years ago is I couldn't narrow it. I think to myself,

02:01:37   know what the worst part about this is going to be the climate change because climate change

02:01:41   is you know we got to fix this or it'll get already behind the count on that right we

02:01:46   need every day to get this fixed even then we need it and there's all sorts of other

02:01:50   stuff you know like they put a numb nut on the Supreme Court well guess what even the

02:01:55   you know 40 years from now there's nobody on the court who's still going to be on the

02:01:58   court you know that will you know even if it takes a long time for the Supreme Court

02:02:03   be flushed. You know, history has a long time. Whereas the climate thing I get I get worked up

02:02:08   about because if we don't, if we're already behind, and if we don't fix this, it isn't going to be

02:02:14   fixable, right? It's, you know, Miami is going to be under six feet of water. And, you know, that you

02:02:18   can't just, you know, a couple of buckets. Yeah, I'm gonna fix it. But then then I convinced myself

02:02:25   that no, no, even as bad as that is, it's the normalizing racism is the bigger problem.

02:02:34   And, you know, just sort of emboldening people. You know, I'm not surprised that there's an awful

02:02:41   lot of white nationalist racist jerks in America. No, no, he never takes any of the opportunities

02:02:48   that he has to be empathetic to anybody except himself and other people in power. But even today,

02:02:54   even today, the day of those shootings, the shootings in California, he only ever

02:03:00   finds, all he can find in himself is the, he has such a hard-on for men in

02:03:05   uniform. And he's always so, he's always so into these, the troops and the

02:03:09   first responders. Nothing against them, thanks, thank you for your service. But

02:03:12   you know what, could you have a little empathy for the people who were just

02:03:15   out having a drink that night? Do you have to, do you have to have such a

02:03:18   bukkake party for the one cop? You know, how about everybody else? How about

02:03:22   all the other people that every other president has ever found the ability

02:03:25   talking about normalizing he is normalizing an utter lack of empathy as

02:03:30   something that is not only okay but is desirable and makes you seem tough you're

02:03:36   seeing it emulated in the other candidates I'm not even seeing that's

02:03:38   anywhere near the biggest problem but the way that he has normalized that kind

02:03:42   of self-absorption and utter lack of empathy for anybody but the people that

02:03:47   could serve him that's gonna be with us for a long time too because now that's

02:03:50   the only way to fight it is to be the same way. It's where of a

02:03:53   generation where we, you know, I think you and I, I think we

02:03:58   maybe even talked about it two years ago is I remember being a

02:04:01   kid in the 70s, you know, a little kid, five, six, whatever.

02:04:04   And the fact that I had like, openly racist, great uncle, like

02:04:09   a guy who you would say, like, Hey, are you racist? And he

02:04:12   would just say, Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't like black people, you

02:04:14   know, it was just it was just that that was a thing of people

02:04:18   of a certain generation. And I kind of caught the tail end of it, of being able to have

02:04:23   like a great uncle who was just nobody, nobody saying anything about it. Nobody even rolling

02:04:27   their eyes and going, Oh, oh, Phil. Like, no, it was just that's, what was it? Like

02:04:32   Christmas story when he says his father, you know, painted with obscenities the way other

02:04:36   people would that way. Yes, my family painted with racism. It was just that's how they were,

02:04:43   - Totally normal, totally normal.

02:04:45   - Yeah, and I remember that, and then I just,

02:04:49   I took it for granted,

02:04:50   and I'm obviously approaching the whole thing

02:04:53   from a position of tremendous privilege

02:04:56   in terms of being a healthy white man,

02:05:00   heterosexual, anything you can check off

02:05:05   as not really being susceptible to bigotry,

02:05:10   I've got it, really.

02:05:12   And I, I, I, I, you know, I, I'm trying to,

02:05:16   I try to appreciate it as much as I can. Um,

02:05:18   I do feel, you know, the other, another one is the, just, I talked about,

02:05:23   I can't get over this, keep talking about like, it's, it's the fight for your

02:05:28   life on stuff like climate change, which nobody seems to care about.

02:05:30   But then the other fight is like, you look at Georgia,

02:05:33   look what happened in Georgia where like this incredibly competent woman

02:05:39   candidate, a community organizer, incredibly qualified for her job.

02:05:43   She never had a chance. And it's not because she's not qualified.

02:05:46   She never had a chance because the president was saying untrue things about her,

02:05:49   even as her opponent was the secretary of state who changed the voting laws

02:05:54   while he was in an election and that kind of thing.

02:05:58   And you get the gerrymandering,

02:06:00   you get the crazy ass map in the Senate right now.

02:06:02   You get all of these things that are so weighted toward the most corrupt people

02:06:06   staying in power. And again, maybe that's not climate change, maybe it's not Uncle Phil's

02:06:10   racism, but that is going to be, can you even imagine how long it would take to get back

02:06:15   to anything like normal? How are we going to work together with the other parties, even

02:06:19   when we're in power, when we have to say, "Look guys, you have to admit, you kind of

02:06:23   screwed the pooch on a lot of this election stuff."

02:06:25   I just can't, I really, in the last two years, I knew it was going to be bad, and that was

02:06:30   hence the holiday party. But I couldn't get my hand, I couldn't come to grips with how

02:06:34   bad it was going to be. It's just I just knew it was bad. And it's like, I don't know, like

02:06:40   you're on the Titanic and you realize the ship is going down and you realize that if

02:06:43   you're lucky, you get in the water, you know, you're not going down with the ship. And it's

02:06:46   like, you think it's going to be cold. Oh, boy, is it cold? Yeah, you don't know until

02:06:50   you're actually in the water. How cold. And I really feel like one of the things that

02:06:54   I look at two years later and look at what this guy is saying and and how he went into

02:06:58   this election and the way he's just turned everything up. I mean, you thought it was

02:07:03   bad two years ago when he ran for president. Thank God for his lack of competence and focus

02:07:08   and you're really so much work. There really was part of me that thought, well, he's got

02:07:11   to tone it down once he's in office and instead it's, he's turned it up like with this, this

02:07:15   ridiculous stuff about the caravan, the caravan, the caravan, and she hasn't mentioned so much

02:07:20   since the, and the ad, the crazy ad that he made that all these networks were like, we

02:07:25   can't run this. This is overly openly racist. But the thing I'm trying to get to is this

02:07:29   point of me and me, maybe you, and I think that there's an awful lot of people who are

02:07:36   not straight white 40-something-year-old men who are like, "No, it's always been there."

02:07:42   But the way that we as a society spent 40 years sort of pushing openly racist views

02:07:50   out of the mainstream, that there's conservatives, there were liberals, but even on the—nobody

02:07:55   allowed to be openly racist. That was completely agreed. Like you, if you're an open racist,

02:08:00   you can't, you can't work here. You can't be on TV. You don't get to have an op-ed column.

02:08:06   You know, David Duke doesn't get to have an op-ed column in a respectable newspaper,

02:08:11   right? You automatically, like we got to a place where you were more or less, if there was always

02:08:16   casual racism, but if you were, you kind of qualified yourself as a fringe character who

02:08:21   who was not to be taken seriously at that point.

02:08:23   Open racism was just what I took for granted how much work that was as a society and how

02:08:30   incremental it had to be. And it's one of those things like the dam has been smashed

02:08:38   and it's not it's not like, oh, we're gonna win if we win an election two years from now

02:08:44   that and we can just go back to the way it was like you don't it. You know, I mean, like

02:08:48   Like it, it D it's the way that destruction can be instantaneous and construction takes

02:08:55   a long time.

02:08:56   It takes a very, it took a very long time to build the world trade center and it took,

02:09:00   you know, 15 minutes to, to bring it down.

02:09:04   You know, it's something as simple as it's, it takes a, you know, six months or a year

02:09:08   to build a house and like one afternoon of leaving the bathwater running.

02:09:13   It's not, it's not difficult to screw up something pretty good by just being an idiot for a fairly

02:09:18   short period of time. Right. So being a willful being a willful, willful, like terrible person.

02:09:22   But like I say, thank God for his lack of focus and competence. Can you imagine if it was if you

02:09:27   had somebody with surrounded by the competent people that George W. Bush had he all he could

02:09:31   do is kill 500,000 people. Right? Can you imagine what Trump could do if he knew what he was doing?

02:09:35   It's even imagine, it's really something and you know, and I know it's it's it wasn't watching nine

02:09:41   hours of TV a day. It's a trope at this point to say, boy, we didn't know what we had with George

02:09:47   W. Bush, you know, and as much as I disliked him politically and as much as I thought he

02:09:52   was a bit of a doofus and as much as I thought that, um, and I can't wait to watch that new

02:09:58   movie about, uh, me to vice vice. I cannot wait for that. I didn't even recognize Christian

02:10:03   Bale. No way. He is totally lost as in, into that Dick Cheney voice, the makeup. I can't

02:10:10   wait, but you know, it seemed pretty obvious from the outside just as a consumer of the

02:10:15   New York Times and you know, watch a little, you know, stay up to date on the news. It

02:10:19   seemed pretty obvious that Dick Cheney was running things, right? Oh, right. But they

02:10:25   were competent. You know, they they they were wrong about things, but they did these things

02:10:29   in a competent way. It is. It is very different today. So anyway, that brings us to the election

02:10:34   of this week and midterms. And I gotta tell you, I was invested deeply in this because

02:10:42   I really do feel and I honest to God, I think the country is still in serious, serious trouble

02:10:47   and ground shaking ground. And I think the only chance we had is for the Democrats to

02:10:52   have taken the house. I really, really feel that if the Republicans had kept both houses

02:10:57   of Congress for the next two years, that we'd be so it's definitely it's funny because like

02:11:03   we're so behind in the count on so many things. And the one thing that felt clear was listen,

02:11:10   Blue Wave, whatever the fuck that means. I'm sorry, I'm cursing on your show. Whatever it means to have a Blue Wave,

02:11:15   we, well, who knows what that means?

02:11:18   But what we do know is, even if we don't get all the things that we want, what we do know is that if

02:11:25   we don't see some improvement in this, especially in this one area,

02:11:29   which is we really need to get the house. There are things that only the house can do,

02:11:34   we hope we get to send it to, but what we know for sure is if there's a washout or a

02:11:39   systematic total miscalculation in the polls and it turns out we're gonna get our clock cleaned even worse than

02:11:44   2016 what we did know is like no matter how long it's gonna take to rebuild all this water damage

02:11:51   what we do know is if we miss it on this one, we are well and truly screwed and

02:11:55   Pretty much to a certainty we can say this is what the country is now

02:11:59   Yeah, and the house, of course all the voting irregularities, but we don't have time to get into that

02:12:03   But still but if you but if that had gone as badly as 2016 went, you know

02:12:07   and all our old drinking buddy Nate Silver still said the same thing, you know,

02:12:11   do you want to get on a plane that has a 15% chance of crashing? No, that's what

02:12:16   that's how it works. That's how percentages work. That's why it's a

02:12:19   percentage. But what we knew was if this goes wrong now it's actually officially

02:12:26   really really bad. Yeah, there's no there's no bull work against what these

02:12:29   folks are gonna be able to do. So I, you know, it was the election was Tuesday.

02:12:32   Tuesday morning was the embargo date for the MacBook Air reviews. So I had that and then

02:12:39   I spent the day sort of reading other people's reviews. Mac Mini reviews dropped at the same

02:12:44   time. And so we went and we voted. But then I kind of stayed off political news all day.

02:12:51   I had plenty of Mac Mini and MacBook Air stuff to read and review to focus my mind. And I

02:12:59   kept telling myself, I'm not going to put MSNBC on until eight o'clock, eight o'clock

02:13:03   Eastern. That's a Madeline did. Madeline did that. I am not so good. I am not doing it

02:13:07   till eight. I'm not doing it till Amy broke and she put it on around seven and I was in

02:13:13   the kitchen so I could hear it and I'd hear and it seven. So that's for my time. That's

02:13:18   right around when the big first big closing. Yeah, the first big closings. And then they

02:13:22   had footage of I think it was in Georgia. There was a lines there was a, well, there

02:13:28   was a polling place where the machine the machine is three they had three they

02:13:32   have three machines in the whole place and and they needed a specific

02:13:35   proprietary power cord for them and nobody nobody had the power cord like

02:13:41   dongle town it's gonna be alright and it's like how can this happen how can it

02:13:46   be you know how can it be election day and you don't have the right power cord

02:13:50   for the voting machines and we could open up the whole can of worms of we

02:13:53   shouldn't really need a power cord for these things we should we really should

02:13:57   for election security be doing a lot of this stuff on paper so that there's a paper, Broadway

02:14:01   show you'd fire the entire crew. If your first night on Broadway couldn't happen because

02:14:04   somebody forgot a cord. I go home. Well, this is different. It's only the future of our

02:14:08   democracy and I don't know. It just seemed like from the first few hours of news were

02:14:14   all seemed bad and I looked at it put me in a mood. You know what it really I was inconsolable

02:14:22   fairly early because I went right back into that old feeling of that old pattern. I know

02:14:26   I didn't already start to feel like yes, we're not gonna win everything

02:14:29   well, you always like these sports teams that always win so like

02:14:32   If you're you know

02:14:34   Even if you could win you're already kind of down a little bit like we're not gonna have the blue wave are we it's not

02:14:39   Gonna happen Steve Kornacki is the the nerd on MSNBC. He's the guy who sort of

02:14:45   Yeah, I can't talk about

02:14:48   MSNBC on a daily basis every once in a while. I do I like I like Rachel Maddow

02:14:53   I think she does a good job in it and if I'm flipping around I might might watch her

02:14:57   I you know, I watch here and there I like their shows

02:14:59   But I tend to read my political stuff

02:15:03   You know big TPM fan here and I linked to it all the time, but talking points memo is a great site

02:15:09   I keep up today. I read most of my political stuff. I find I don't want to I don't have that many hours a day

02:15:15   To watch TV. I don't want to spend it. I know Steve Carnegie

02:15:19   I know Steve Kornacki works at NBC News full-time and I know he's a political guy and a writer like just

02:15:26   He has a new book out that's supposed to be just terrific, but he's a writer

02:15:29   He's a correspondent like I had a writer

02:15:31   so but I don't see I don't think I've seen him since two years ago on election night and I will say I

02:15:37   Have to say like seeing him. It's like the way guy Lombardo used to be for New Year's Eve. Yeah

02:15:42   I'm sure you do other things the other, you know the last 700 and some days

02:15:48   But I haven't is the guy who makes me nervous with the map, right?

02:15:51   You're the guy who makes me nervous with the map and tells me bad news

02:15:54   Yeah, right

02:15:57   Could still be 40 votes in a box somewhere

02:15:59   right and then the

02:16:02   538 I had that opened in a tab and it at some point did they bring a needle this year?

02:16:07   No, well, they had a percentage and I like at like six o'clock Eastern

02:16:12   So around three o'clock your time

02:16:13   They pegged the Democrats chances of taking the house at like 92% and I was like, that's a pretty good number

02:16:19   and I don't think it's a great number because

02:16:21   You said like would you feel good on an airplane if there was a 92% chance that it was going to not crash

02:16:28   it's you know, and

02:16:30   But I still feel pretty good about it because I didn't expect I had no reason to think that they would be

02:16:34   99% right. It's it's like, you know, you look at this

02:16:38   It's this is not even even they were saying in there in their writing out on the podcast

02:16:41   They were saying it's the same thing that always applies there could be something somebody missed and it's not our fault

02:16:46   This is what 538 tries to say for two years. All we're doing is reporting on other people's polls

02:16:51   We evaluate how good the poll is, but we don't control the data and the polls

02:16:54   There's always the chance for a systematic error that throws this completely in one direction or the other and we have no control over

02:17:00   well, and you know the way that we've sorted ourselves left and right with the you know, the

02:17:08   that on the Trumpist perspective of denying climate change and

02:17:13   Not really. They're just not that fact-based, you know

02:17:17   The whole fake news thing that those people surprisingly unsurprisingly, you know, don't really get math and

02:17:25   So their thing was that oh that you know, the people who predicted that Hillary Clinton would beat Trump

02:17:31   You know like Nate Silver in 538. Oh, they have egg on their face

02:17:35   Whereas what they said was, you know, it looks like, you know, she has an 80% chance of winning or whatever

02:17:40   It was 85% whatever the number was the let's say

02:17:43   I mean you do need to reframe these things if there's a 15% chance that means that like 16% is 1/6, right?

02:17:50   That means that's about like saying there's the oh

02:17:52   There's absolutely no way that this die right will land on a five right and you're like that's insane

02:17:57   Well, you ever actually rolled dice and remember there was a game

02:18:02   Trouble remember you pop a magic

02:18:04   So you had one one magic sure you had one die in the middle of the thing and you pop it and then you had

02:18:08   To like land on certain pegs exactly

02:18:11   So, you know you'd be you know, you're like your sister's ahead of you and you're playing and it's like she has to get a one

02:18:16   You know, so every chance, you know, eventually you get a one it's not that unusual

02:18:20   So if somebody said to you, you know, I'll bet you ten bucks that the next roll of the die won't be a one

02:18:26   Well, I'll take that bet because you got a five out of six chance, but you know, even with it would take that

02:18:30   Yeah, I would take that bet. That's good. It happens, right? So anyway, I'm looking

02:18:35   at this and MSNBC comes on and it seems like it's all bad news. It's voting machines without

02:18:40   power cords and long lines and all these. You see the, you see Kemp wasn't able to vote

02:18:46   because he had a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I did see that. It's hilarious. The guy, the guy

02:18:49   who was rigging the elections couldn't even vote because they made these ridiculous voter

02:18:52   ID laws that are transparently designed to keep a transparently racist. Right. Well,

02:18:58   Did you see the thing with North Dakota where they changed the law to require a street address

02:19:05   to vote on if you got Avenue instead of road? No, it's the fact that many, many, many, many

02:19:12   they don't even have the actual address. According to the government, it's a P.O. box, but they

02:19:18   can't use a P.O. box. Right? Yes. And it only, you know, so they made this law to literally

02:19:23   the only people who are effects are the Native Americans in North Dakota because their legal

02:19:27   address is a P.O. box and it's not a street address because where they live, you know,

02:19:31   the reservations where they live don't have streets, you know, or not streets in the US,

02:19:37   whatever.

02:19:38   It's not the canonical definition of the location.

02:19:40   So not only is it bullshit that they have to show an ID to vote anyway, which is ridiculous

02:19:44   and is entirely designed to disenfranchise minorities, they specifically wrote this street

02:19:50   address law to target Native Americans who voted for Heidi.

02:19:55   Okay. Yeah. The last time, which is how, you know, she was a little right in, she won.

02:20:01   Didn't she want the writing? Yeah. So Murkowski Murkowski that had the right Alaska, but you

02:20:04   know, and guess what? She lost badly. Yeah. But anyway, all this bad news comes in and

02:20:09   I thought, well, I'm going to, you know, I'm not going out to watch TV yet. I'm going to

02:20:13   go back to the kitchen. I'm going to do a little bit more work, but here, let me quick

02:20:16   reload five 38 to get that 90 something, see where that's at and then I'll feel better.

02:20:21   And I reload 538 and 538 was down to like they'd it was like 54% chance. I'm like, what?

02:20:32   This was just at 91%. How the hell does this go to 54? And the thing that I remember is

02:20:37   I remember, like with the needles and etc, all these things in 2016, the jittering on

02:20:43   the needle, they were also, you know, very strongly in Hillary Clinton's favor. And then

02:20:47   they started moving the other way. And then once they started moving the other way, they

02:20:51   kept going past 50 and it very quickly went down to yes she lost she's gonna

02:20:56   remember that and so all I can think is this thing that went from 91 to 54 if

02:21:02   that keeps going like it did two years ago that's gonna be down to like 15% in

02:21:06   like 20 minutes and MSNBC had a needle - they had like a thing and at one point

02:21:13   there's was like 55% or something and I'm like doesn't even make that much

02:21:17   sense. The needle for a Democrat versus Republican one-person presidential contest needle makes sense.

02:21:24   Needle for control of the House or the Senate does not in the face of it make as much sense.

02:21:28   I gotta tell you for a couple of hours there it was extraordinarily

02:21:32   nervous to use. And you super over notice every time. Right. I mean there were the races,

02:21:40   there were the races where the really high the highlight looks something like the classic

02:21:44   because Beto O'Rourke versus Ted Cruz. Nobody ever really, really, really super thought

02:21:48   he was going to win, but it would have been the total package. Because Ted Cruz is, I

02:21:54   don't know, he's a suit on a blobfish. He's such a repellent human being, even his colleagues

02:22:00   don't like him. Beto O'Rourke is arguably the future of the progressives. And it's like,

02:22:05   that would have been like, you know, that's like Marvel movies. That's like a four quadrant

02:22:09   win. You can't help. And then when you see he's not going to win, you're like, well,

02:22:13   I still I damn it. Why was I hopeful? Why was I hopeful? And I think I under noticed

02:22:18   that I want to jump ahead, but I think I under noticed the number of things that were actually

02:22:21   going super well. Yep. Over noticed the stuff that was not going flawlessly and had no idea

02:22:26   how many things there wouldn't be account until later in the week, which is also getting

02:22:29   very interesting. And the other thing that really put me in a bad mood Tuesday night

02:22:33   where the results from Florida, which is on the East coast, I guess they, they close polls

02:22:37   early, maybe seven o'clock ish or something like that. My old, it's where I used to live.

02:22:41   was the west coast. Where I used to live, the west coast of Florida, the Gulf Coast

02:22:46   is what screwed it up.

02:22:47   Well, they had a governor race and they had a Senate race and the polls had said the Democrats

02:22:51   are looking, you know, it's always Florida, so a big win is going to be 51-49.

02:22:54   Oh, absolutely. It's a large state.

02:22:59   But it's bizarrely, but famously all the way back to 2000, where George W. Bush won by

02:23:06   like a vote one quote you know however they had done that recount though if

02:23:12   they had done a full recount nobody was gonna win by more than a couple hundred

02:23:15   votes you could do a recount three or four different times and if you did a

02:23:18   thorough thorough hand recount an actual manual thorough hand recount three times

02:23:23   you get three different results but it's there's enough votes involved that I

02:23:27   bet it would be different it's just bizarrely 50/50 so you knew it was gonna

02:23:30   be but everything went badly Tuesday in Florida the the Republican looking good

02:23:35   for a couple days. It looked like Gillum might do it right. The Republican one. It's Rick Scott. He

02:23:40   was the one the Senate race and he's a real piece. He's a real piece of work. Yeah. And it's like,

02:23:46   how the hell did this happen? How does Florida get to screw us again? And you just I couldn't help

02:23:51   but feel like I was like, well, a Florida the polls, you know, we're a little bit skewed in

02:23:57   the Democrats favor. This is obviously going to apply elsewhere. I think we might be screwed.

02:24:02   And then James Carville came on the MSNBC.

02:24:05   And I love James Carville.

02:24:07   I really do love him.

02:24:08   I enjoy the way he talks.

02:24:09   I think he's incredibly astute.

02:24:11   But I remember that he was the guy,

02:24:13   like he was the guy two years ago,

02:24:16   who at a moment where everybody,

02:24:19   whether we should or should not have,

02:24:20   whether we were in denial or just late,

02:24:23   but everybody was still thinking,

02:24:25   well, Trump can't really win this, right?

02:24:27   Okay, so it's closer than we thought,

02:24:28   but he can't really win.

02:24:29   It was James Carville who came on MSNBC and was like,

02:24:32   I'm not gonna do his accent, but more or less was like,

02:24:37   yeah, this looks really bad.

02:24:38   - He said the thing A that nobody wanted to hear,

02:24:40   that B turned out to be true.

02:24:41   - Right.

02:24:42   - He did it fairly early.

02:24:43   And then having him do that a second time,

02:24:45   you're just like, oh, come on.

02:24:47   - Yeah, so he came on and he was like,

02:24:49   yeah, this isn't gonna be a blue wave.

02:24:50   This could turn out bad.

02:24:52   I think we've got to get our heads wrapped around the fact

02:24:54   that we may not take, Democrats may not take the House.

02:24:57   I gotta tell you at that point,

02:24:58   I was like, I did not know what to do. Yeah. And then, you know, and then it all turned

02:25:06   out okay. Did you notice that one thing I don't think, I think everybody had to notice,

02:25:10   I don't see how you couldn't notice is as they start calling individual house races

02:25:16   and they're calling them from, you know, they had this list of, here's the 50 that that

02:25:19   are toss ups. Here's the, you know, here's the ones, these are the 50 races that are

02:25:23   going to determine this. There's a bunch of, for a variety of reasons are like they're

02:25:26   contested, they're already settled, or in some cases, there's, you know, somebody like

02:25:30   Ocasio-Cortez, like, we're not gonna talk a lot about that, because that's pretty much

02:25:34   baked in that she's gonna win.

02:25:35   Right, because it's a democratic district. Like, in our district here, where our representative

02:25:40   is a fellow named Dwight Evans, who's, I think, he's not nationally known too well. I mean,

02:25:46   there's a lot of House members who aren't, you know, but he seems like a very good politician.

02:25:49   He's, you know, he's been around, I forget how many times he's been elected. He's not

02:25:54   real old, but he's, you know, at least five, five times his expected vote percentage according

02:26:00   to 538 in our district was 97. In other words, the expectation was he would, he would get

02:26:06   97% of the votes in our history. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So that was not, I'm not going

02:26:10   to spend a whole lot of time on that. We live in a very blue district. Who's your representative?

02:26:14   Did you vote for, is Nancy Pelosi your representative? Uh, well our, our, let's see, who's our,

02:26:20   I voted for Di-Fi again. I got a soft spot for Di-Fi in the Senate. And who did I vote

02:26:26   for? I don't remember who I voted for in the rep. I mean, here, my stuff is a lot less

02:26:30   interesting than my friends in Chicago, where a real difference can be made. So we were

02:26:35   very focused on some of the, what do they call it in California, the, not the amendments,

02:26:41   but the propositions. There's some very interesting propositions in the city and the state, but

02:26:45   But there's a lot of very down card stuff, you know, like, "Oh, real worried about

02:26:51   who's going to be the assessor, you know, school board, judges."

02:26:54   But no, I mean, here there's not, I mean, you want to show up and do your duty, but

02:26:58   we do not have a giant impact.

02:27:00   The people who really wanted Kevin De Leon over Di-Fi, I think, are probably certainly

02:27:05   understandably disappointed.

02:27:07   They really wanted, you know, somebody more progressive and not 80 in there.

02:27:11   But that was pretty much it.

02:27:13   was nothing the most the most well known things around here was some called Prop C where being

02:27:19   off in particular from Salesforce was trying to get this tax that would help with homeless

02:27:24   issues which passed but not by enough to be like I want to say veto proof like it's still

02:27:32   there's no still no guarantee it'll happen. It can still be like sort of litigated. You

02:27:36   know what was it? What was a weird result was the the proposition in Florida to restore

02:27:41   voting rights to

02:27:42   Felons who have served their times. I was very happy to hear that well, but I don't understand so it's good

02:27:47   And it's right because the you know the idea that once weird that it's a state decision, right?

02:27:53   But if somebody in a felony, I think a priori I think of a felony is like a national federal offense, right?

02:27:58   It's I know it's not the case but you know and it's you know, you've served your time

02:28:02   You should be you know

02:28:03   You're done if they say you have to go to jail for ten years and then your ten years are up and then you're you

02:28:08   You know, it doesn't seem it really seems unless it's like a condition of parole like you're done

02:28:12   It's done what you you're done serving. It seems right on the surface

02:28:15   Injust unjust that you never get to vote again for the rest of your life until you unless you get I guess move out of

02:28:22   The state or something. I guess if you move right because then you'd be out of that

02:28:25   Well, but that's not what people should have to do and and it's unjust

02:28:29   That far and super interesting that it passed for all the obvious reasons

02:28:33   It passed like it got like 64% of the vote and all I can think is who voted for this and then still voted for the

02:28:39   Republicans for this thing because it was I know you're right. Yeah, it's so nuts. Yeah, very nuts. I I don't

02:28:46   The thing that thing I had I went to bed that night going meh like I'm this could have gotten better

02:28:52   But even by the time I had recorded with Syracuse to that night

02:28:55   So I'd missed a lot of the Sturm and Drang, but even by the end of the night

02:28:58   I was like, wait a minute. This isn't as bad as everybody's making it sound

02:29:01   This could be this could be way terrible and I hadn't really thought through

02:29:04   What it might mean if the Democrats get the let's be honest get the chairmanships of a lot of those committee

02:29:12   Yeah, just getting rid of Devin Nunez that improves my day. He's a very bad person is a really I'm not

02:29:18   I'm not the hugest Adam Schiff fan. I think he's never seen a camera

02:29:21   He didn't love but like he might as well be working for MSNBC

02:29:25   But I think he's a damn sight better than Devin Nunez in that case

02:29:28   Well, I think he's a smart guy and that's the difference and I do think yeah, you're right

02:29:33   He likes to be on camera, but it's does but like yeah exactly. He's not a cipher for for Donald Trump

02:29:38   But but yeah, I hadn't really thought through all that and then you know

02:29:41   There was there were really some bright signs and it took until the next day and people remind you

02:29:45   Hey, this is the first, you know, african-american woman in this role the first Muslim woman in this role

02:29:49   There was a lot of stuff like that that we missed in the lights because we wanted the coup de gras

02:29:53   Yeah

02:29:54   And there's you wanted this to be dumb liberal cucks like me are sitting around waiting for a daddy to shoot the silver bullet into the

02:30:00   Bad man, and that's not how politics were Colorado, Colorado elected an openly gay governor

02:30:06   First in the nation that's gonna be governing over the the people who wouldn't make the cake

02:30:11   Yeah

02:30:12   It's it's so much so being real he's been real classy about it too so many great things like that

02:30:17   And the thing I noticed it was that as they start calling these individual house races and here's another one that flipped

02:30:23   Here's another one that flipped for the Democrats and all of a sudden it started looking good and the needles started looking

02:30:28   You know, it was like 80% chance and it's like oh, it's back off 50/50

02:30:32   Was how many of the ones who flipped it were women?

02:30:36   it was it's yeah just nuts how it was a woman after a woman after a woman who were winning these seats and

02:30:42   I'm not surprised by that, but I thought it was just a revelation how it was just one. You're not gonna hurt

02:30:50   I mean, that's we that is the energy and

02:30:53   I'm not gonna be an essentialist or trying to I

02:30:58   Don't want to be unintentionally sexist by saying all women and think because they're not but

02:31:02   There's been a lot of times in the last two years a bit last time a lot of time in the last 200 years

02:31:06   Well, we really could have used some super smart women on the job. Yeah, and that's nice to see that is so nice to say

02:31:12   Yeah, and I think it's great

02:31:13   I think it's going to be good governing wise but I also think it was great that it was it was a winning it was

02:31:19   winning politically, you know, that it was a great way to win these seats. There also

02:31:23   were some good schadenfreude is we lost him in the lights, but fricking Scott Walker.

02:31:27   Yeah, he's done. He's out. That's so good. Dana Rohrabacher who might as well work for

02:31:32   Vladimir Putin. I'm so glad Rohrabacher lost. That makes me so happy. I don't even think

02:31:39   it's a joke. I actually think that he works for Vladimir Putin. I remember there was they

02:31:43   had that recording of the one guy and he was recording where they joked about and now and

02:31:47   And the other guy's laugh is like the one guy and he was like, yeah, Ryan was making

02:31:50   jokes about it. There's two people that are on the payroll for Putin, right? Yeah. Trump

02:31:54   and Rohrabacher and they laughed and he goes, no, wait, I'm not joking. Like I really do

02:31:58   think that this guy's on the take from the Russians. Yeah. There was so many, so many

02:32:02   bad people who lost a Scott Walker losing is terrific. It was a good election. It was

02:32:07   a good election. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, and listen, I don't want to, if anything

02:32:12   I've learned at this point is not to whistle past the graveyard. No, it sucks. It sucks

02:32:16   that that Gillum didn't win. That would have been huge. It sucks that Beto O'Rourke didn't

02:32:20   win. It's all I can do not to be exactly that kind of centrist lefty who drives me nuts.

02:32:25   But in my back of my head, I am thinking, "Oh, Beto O'Rourke and Gillum." Kind of an

02:32:29   interesting idea because of course, as we keep hearing emerging this idea that from

02:32:33   future presidents like Michael Avenatti, we keep hearing about how, "Oh dear, we can't

02:32:37   have a woman running for the Democratic seat." I hope that's not the case. But if you're

02:32:42   you're going to have, I, I loved Joe Biden. I love uncle Joe Joseph Gordon Biden. Big

02:32:47   fan. Hope he doesn't run. Hope he doesn't run too strong. I want to see people like

02:32:52   Beto and Gillum. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a powerful combination. As we stand here today,

02:32:58   that's a powerful combination. It reminds me a lot of a Barack Obama circa 2004 and

02:33:04   I remember the cause like his sort of introduction to the national stage. So 2004 John Kerry

02:33:11   was the Democratic candidate. And one of the nights, you know, like Tuesday night of the

02:33:17   Democratic convention, the big speech was delivered by this young up and coming Senate

02:33:22   candidate from Chicago, Barack Obama. Right. And, you know, I was like, well, that's, you know,

02:33:28   it's it. That's a tough name to, you know, to be a black guy running for the national stage.

02:33:33   A lot of people forget Barack Hussein Obama, right? That is important, right? The Democrats

02:33:36   didn't really emphasize that part of it in 2004. But I'd never heard of the guy. And I, you know,

02:33:41   we're watching and he delivered and you know what we in hindsight we recognize as a terrific

02:33:47   Barack Obama speech and I remember me and Amy just looking at each other saying like why aren't we

02:33:53   running this guy like right right right I think John Kerry would have been a fine president

02:33:57   doesn't really he'd be fine at being the administrator of something he like doesn't

02:34:03   really stir the blood right he doesn't make you stand up and to have you know wipe tears from your

02:34:08   eyes. Whereas Barack Obama did. And in 2004, it was like, I think this guy's going to be the first

02:34:14   black president. And we're, you know, we, you know, we were both like, I think this guy could

02:34:19   do it. And then we're like, no, there's never going to be a black president in our lifetime.

02:34:23   Because just because right, because we're awful, because we're an awful country is going to,

02:34:27   you know, we're going to have Bush, we're going to have more Bush brothers for 40 years.

02:34:31   Those Bush boys are back. But it just in beta O'Rourke has that same effect on me. Like,

02:34:38   I just listened to this guy and I'm like you may not beat Ted Cruz in this election, you know

02:34:42   Because it's Texas and it's you know, but yeah boy. Oh boy. Are you inspiring and you know boy?

02:34:48   Do you have good things to say and do you I'm ready? I'm ready to see a lot more youth and I'm I

02:34:54   Don't know I don't I think you and I differ a little on this I see they I don't want to be offensive

02:35:00   I see you as a little more centrist. Yeah, I am progressive like but you know what? I mean, I

02:35:05   I'm

02:35:08   I have great respect for Chuck Schumer.

02:35:11   I don't think he's the guy we need in that job right now.

02:35:13   - Yeah, I see it.

02:35:14   - I think there are people like that

02:35:15   where I'm like, oh my goodness,

02:35:17   you are just gonna apologize your way into oblivion.

02:35:21   You've got to fight.

02:35:22   There's no reason for us not to fight at this point.

02:35:25   There's nothing, I mean, how much will be gained

02:35:28   by not fighting?

02:35:29   I mean, you just, they sound practically apologetic

02:35:33   that they want these things

02:35:34   that America has wanted for years.

02:35:36   Like what is the powder you're keeping dry at this point?

02:35:39   What do you think they're gonna do to you?

02:35:41   - I don't know.

02:35:42   I'm with you.

02:35:43   - And that's, so I mean the idea of somebody,

02:35:45   people who are gonna rub some people the wrong way.

02:35:49   You wanna start turning out more than a,

02:35:51   you know, low two digits of young people,

02:35:55   put somebody out there that'll get them out of their ass

02:35:57   and not worried about whether they can find stamps to buy.

02:36:00   They will come out and they will do this.

02:36:01   You know, you need somebody who's gonna make them excited.

02:36:04   the other side doesn't worry about what our side will think of their leaders. Nobody on

02:36:12   the Republicans looks at Chuck Grassley leading the Senate Judiciary Committee and says, "You

02:36:17   know what? I worry that Democrats aren't really going to like this guy."

02:36:20   - There's a phrase we use in our family a lot, which is sometimes we'll be watching

02:36:25   a TV show or a movie and there'll be somebody who just, it seems so strange and I'll say,

02:36:30   "That guy seems like he's in a different movie right now. He's in a different movie." We're

02:36:34   in a different movie than we used to be. Chuck Schumer and his very, very good, good humans

02:36:39   who are leading our other elected officials, they think they are in a different movie than

02:36:45   the one that they are in. And I really, I don't understand unless I'm really, really

02:36:50   missing something that's always possible. I think they think they're in a different

02:36:53   movie. And I'm, we're in a different genre of movie from a different era of movie. And

02:36:59   Like the more, the thing is, you know, it's like the closest I can think of is like Margaret

02:37:04   Dumont in a Marx Brothers movie.

02:37:07   Like trying to be in like All the President's Men or something.

02:37:10   Like I don't know what the two movies are, but like it's time to fight.

02:37:15   You're not going to get these people, you're not going to win a contest of like, have you

02:37:20   no shame, sir.

02:37:23   Like you are basically, you're fighting the three Stooges and they've got a ladder.

02:37:27   But now it's at a point where you could ask, you could have the, do you have no shame,

02:37:32   sir?

02:37:33   And then they could just look right at, you know, you know, do that thing where the, do

02:37:36   you speak into your testimony microphone at a crooked angle?

02:37:39   And they would just say, no, we, I have no shame.

02:37:41   Of course not.

02:37:42   Right.

02:37:43   I believe they're stipulated for the record that I have no shame.

02:37:46   Right.

02:37:47   Like that was huge.

02:37:48   Like they should have two associates and the three of us have worked to do like when Cavanaugh

02:37:53   Kavanaugh was called back to retestify on that thing.

02:37:56   But they could have asked him like,

02:37:58   "Sir, do you have you no shame?"

02:38:00   And he would have just answered,

02:38:01   "No, I have no shame at all, none."

02:38:03   - Well, I mean, to go to an extreme,

02:38:04   the guys on Shopo were saying like,

02:38:06   somebody should have, maybe not Klobuchar,

02:38:08   but somebody just sort of just said,

02:38:10   well, the extreme version would be,

02:38:12   "Mr. Kavanaugh, are you drunk right now?"

02:38:14   - Yeah, I know, right?

02:38:16   - Or if you wanna be a little more low key about it,

02:38:18   you go, "Mr. Kavanaugh, when's the last time

02:38:20   you drank any alcohol at all?"

02:38:22   And you know, the only honest answer is at least yesterday.

02:38:25   I think, I think he did a shot before he came out. I do.

02:38:30   The way that he came out hot. Okay. Have me back. It's, it's getting late.

02:38:34   Have me back.

02:38:35   I want to land out my theory of how Adderall is running the right at this point.

02:38:39   I think there's a tremendous stimulant addiction problem on the right.

02:38:43   And I think the smart money is on Brett probably had a little too to Adderall and

02:38:47   then you decide to shave it down with a little bit of Scotch whiskey.

02:38:51   That's my guess. I think he had one and then the other. Did they get him off the clock?

02:38:55   I mean, you ever notice how much Trump sniffs? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, all the time. Take Adderall.

02:39:00   I used to sniff people sniff. It's not cocaine guys. Folks, folks, folks. Do we love it? Do we

02:39:06   love the Adderall? I thought, and I thought, you know where I thought it was super noticeable

02:39:10   always. I thought I was like, why aren't more people talking about this was during his debates

02:39:14   with Hillary Clinton where he's up there. He's up there for 90 minutes. Yes. He's got, you know,

02:39:18   a microphone in front of him for the whole thing and he's you know, is there ever a time when he

02:39:23   would get want to get keyed up, you know, and ready to go became a running it was a running bit for

02:39:28   me on Twitter because I know for a fact that from the time I put an Adderall in my mouth to the time

02:39:32   I felt like a and Elton John song with wings was exactly 22 minutes. I don't know if you could

02:39:38   count 22 minutes from the time he started talking. I think he got a little bump and it would hit him

02:39:43   maybe a pill and it was him because he would suddenly become extremely interested in what

02:39:47   what he was saying. And he would like come to life from looking very tired and the man

02:39:50   sleeps like three hours a night.

02:39:52   Yeah. Well he just tweeted the other day at four 30 he had a tweet that can, you know,

02:39:55   he tweets those himself. I think I wanted three. Yeah. He had one at three the other

02:39:58   day about his unfair treatment or maybe it was four, but it was literally, if you look

02:40:02   at it like it's either really late or really yourself, is that healthy? Is that healthy?

02:40:06   The president is up at that hour being aggrieved. Right. Is that what we want from a late night

02:40:11   president?

02:40:12   You know and yet I'm saying also you notice how much water Kevin I was drinking yeah, did you see water you so?

02:40:19   We got to wrap it up, but it's just so Trump had a bizarro

02:40:22   Press conference yesterday yesterday. He went all over the map from saying that he was gonna work with Democrats to making threats

02:40:29   Again, you investigate me. Maybe I investigate

02:40:32   Yeah, like that like that Nancy Pelosi

02:40:37   I'm gonna investigate you. I'm not doing it right now. But I might I could do on the present.

02:40:41   I could start investigating. Well, here's to get you it fits though with it. Like a

02:40:45   drunk yelling No, you're under arrest. No, I let me tell you something, though. I honestly

02:40:49   believe this. And I think it's a it's one of those ways where, like you said, we're

02:40:52   in a different movie than these people think we are. The real world today. Democrats look

02:40:57   at the word investigation, and they see what the dictionary says an investigation is an

02:41:03   inquiry to find the answers to questions. So the molar sometimes it's just to make sure

02:41:09   that everything is as it appears you will be investigated if you try to work for the

02:41:13   FBI. So they know that everything's copacetic. They're not accusing you of any Republicans,

02:41:17   they just need to investigate it to make sure everything's what it seems. Republicans starting

02:41:21   with Newt Gingrich back in the 90s. He sort of pioneered this see investing, they see

02:41:26   the word investigation, and they see it as something that those in political power use

02:41:30   against those who don't have political power. It's it has nothing to do with the truth.

02:41:35   That is not the it's just no matter what the intention is, it's definitely going to be

02:41:39   a blanket party that is sets up from the beginning to undo. And so Trump's thing yesterday just

02:41:46   he's so internalized that and it comes so naturally to him that it has nothing to do

02:41:51   with the fact that he's actually done illegal things, terribly illegal things and that his

02:41:56   campaign, you know, whether he knew about them or not colluded with the Russians in

02:42:01   illegal ways and that there's all sorts of financial, you don't need to go any further

02:42:05   than his hotels. Right. The thing that's like number 95 on the list is how he and he and

02:42:10   his family continue to enrich themselves because they didn't really get out of any of those

02:42:15   businesses that will never even get. We won't get to that until they're all dead. But that

02:42:18   alone follow David Fahrenheit on, on, on Twitter and, and what Washington Post. Yeah. And just

02:42:25   Watch what happens with that family.

02:42:27   And it's absolutely astonishing stuff that nobody would have gotten away with one time.

02:42:32   He has an entire, his progeny are out there in buildings with his name on it, licensed

02:42:37   to have his name on it.

02:42:38   They're doing nothing but putting thousands of dollars in his pocket.

02:42:41   Trump's little, you want to investigate me, we'll investigate you.

02:42:44   I'll investigate you.

02:42:45   It was totally in denial of the fact that like he's done an all, he and his campaign

02:42:51   and his government have done an awful lot of things that are probably going to, you

02:42:55   know, result in well already have resulted in a bunch of felonies and indictment. And

02:43:01   the other side has only people in some cases, there were only people that led his campaign

02:43:05   or advised his campaign for a few months. But there and there was a whole a whole a

02:43:10   whole you you couldn't fit them on a bus, you know, how many people when Trump won,

02:43:15   and they, you know, for two years ago, when we had the little holiday party episode of

02:43:19   the show and how many people right away like with you know, day after the election, we're

02:43:23   saying, Ah, this isn't going to be that bad. You know, it's ah, you're crazy if you think

02:43:27   that, that they're going, it's going to be like,

02:43:29   there's so many fail saves and fire alarms and nets, right? Keep this from going wrong.

02:43:34   Now here we are two years later, the day after this election, people on the Supreme Court.

02:43:39   But they like to me of the list of things that we were that I was like two years ago,

02:43:44   oh yeah, they're going to do this. They're going to do things like this. And then here

02:43:48   we are yesterday. They they revoke the press pass to a reporter from CNN. Yeah. And the

02:43:55   White House press secretary, Sarah Sanders, posted a video. Here's she said, here's why

02:44:00   we have to revoke video, video, video, video, video, the White House. And it just isn't

02:44:09   an allegation that the the original making a karate chop on that woman. The original

02:44:13   video is out there. You can see the original video. You can see how they doctored it. And

02:44:19   that's, you know, again, you know, on the same, on the same day that at least it was

02:44:23   announced that Jeff sessions had been asked to quit, had been essentially fired the day.

02:44:29   It's like almost like he's waiting. When can I, when can I let the Keebler out go? It has

02:44:33   to be after the midterm, sir. And the midterms end when, uh, well, sir, I guess technically

02:44:37   that would be sometime he won't be fully counted, but after 12, okay, fine, I'll do it then.

02:44:41   And that's, and that's a Cuban man is gone on that undated letter that's been weirdly

02:44:45   sitting around undated letter.

02:44:48   You know, I, I date notes to my wife that I put on the refrigerator.

02:44:53   I don't think official resignation letters get passed around without a date on them.

02:44:58   What is happening?

02:44:59   I need a holiday party.

02:45:01   I think, I think, I don't know if everything's going to be fine.

02:45:04   I think it's not going to be fine.

02:45:06   I do feel God, I hate to say this cause I'm so obsessed with the Russia stuff, but I've

02:45:09   come around to what a lot of people say, you know, let the rush of stuff play it play out

02:45:13   its course. Having shift and his team in there is going to make a big difference, but don't

02:45:18   lose that in the lights. Don't put all your hope. Robert Mueller is not Superman. There's

02:45:22   only so much that's going to happen. And like my friend, Max says, stay focused on stuff

02:45:25   that you can do something about stuff in your area. Maybe even pick one thing. Don't be

02:45:30   like the press. You guys don't chase every tennis ball. I mean, we're doing that now.

02:45:33   We're having fun, but if you want to make a difference, you can't, you can't fret about

02:45:37   everything you got to fret about one thing or two things well you know yeah

02:45:41   we got to keep you just so you can just drink a lot well I tried that two years

02:45:44   ago didn't know it worked for a little while I will say this let me say this

02:45:50   because so you'll be back on before the 2020 election but god willing yeah yeah

02:45:55   do you think Trump is gonna run for reelection I think there's a serious

02:45:59   chance that he doesn't run for reelection boy there's this is one that

02:46:02   that I really had to change my mind on.

02:46:05   I, John Gruber, as we recorded that program approximately two years ago, I thought he'd

02:46:11   be in it for six months.

02:46:12   I thought there's no reason to believe he will be in there for more than six months.

02:46:15   He will be impeached because he's already got a big stack of crimes.

02:46:18   He made crimes.

02:46:19   He made tons of crimes.

02:46:20   He shouldn't be in there in the first place.

02:46:22   He's obviously going to be impeached.

02:46:23   They made Jimmy Carter sell his peanut farm.

02:46:25   He sold his peanut farm.

02:46:27   A retired World War II veteran that worked on submarines had to sell his peanut farm.

02:46:35   This guy looks like a child's craft project.

02:46:38   This guy opened a hotel with his name on it across the street from the White House.

02:46:41   I can't have the FBI there.

02:46:43   It's right across the street.

02:46:45   I know, I know, it's real easy.

02:46:47   You can just use a little Elon Musk tunnel to move him between in a golf cart.

02:46:51   Anyways, and so I thought there's no way he'll be in there six months.

02:46:54   I was a little surprised that he made it more than six months.

02:46:57   And then I thought, well, you remember what we all were saying toward the end when it

02:47:01   was quote unquote so obvious he wasn't going to win.

02:47:03   We were like, oh, he's never, he's never going to stick this out because he has to

02:47:07   do financial disclosures.

02:47:08   He's never going to stick this out because if there's any chance he's not going to win,

02:47:11   you know, he's not going to do it right.

02:47:13   Remember all that talk and all that chatter.

02:47:15   And then he did stay in and nobody was more surprised than him that he won.

02:47:19   But I, I, I, I want to hear what you say about this because I think he definitely is planning

02:47:24   to run again and I think he is definitely planning to win again.

02:47:27   I think he never feels more alive and not terrible about himself than when he's in front

02:47:34   of a rally crowd.

02:47:35   Yep.

02:47:36   And that's, that's just like, that's fudge for dinner every night for the last next two

02:47:41   years for him.

02:47:42   Can he do the rallies even if he isn't running?

02:47:44   I think he could.

02:47:45   He is running.

02:47:46   His reelection started in January of 2017.

02:47:48   Yeah, but I see I I think he'll probably win like if you want me to just bet money yes or no

02:47:53   Will he be on the ballot two years from now? I've given a ball

02:47:56   Definitely gonna win. I don't think so cuz we're gonna have 16 people on our side splitting every conceivable blow

02:48:02   But I think we'll get behind it. And I also think if you look at the actual way

02:48:06   That he well Florida is Florida and Florida looks, you know, obviously came up red Tuesday, but Pennsylvania went super blue

02:48:14   We because the district changes right? Yeah district changes helping change lots of stuff where we Pennsylvania

02:48:21   Did itself proud after helping to elect Trump two years ago

02:48:25   But we got a democratic governor reelected Democratic senator reelected neither of whom even really had serious opposition wasn't even close

02:48:33   Flipped a bunch of house seats. It was all you know all looked very good

02:48:39   Wisconsin went for Trump in a surprise was usually blue and presidential elections with

02:48:44   Wisconsin got attacked together and kick Scott Walker out. Anyway, I don't think I mean,

02:48:49   that guy's that guy was that guy was hard to get rid of. I think recall for him. I kept

02:48:53   winning. It was crazy. I think when you sit there and just look at it, look at it state

02:48:57   by state and add up the electoral I mean, it all depends who the Democrats run. I just

02:49:00   think that there is a chance that Trump looks at this thing like and I losing would be human.

02:49:06   I don't think he could handle losing, right? I don't think that his brain could handle

02:49:09   it. It's the word. That's what I thought in 16 too though. And I think that if he, I think

02:49:15   if he looks at this and sees it as loser, I think he just, I think his out is very obvious.

02:49:21   He just just declared, you know, what was his goal of going in? It was to make America

02:49:25   great again. All he says is I did it. It took, it took one. I only needed one term. I'm so

02:49:30   good. I only needed one term. America's great again. I fixed it. And so I'm out here. He

02:49:35   loves, he loves those cheering crowds. And I think I, I, I,

02:49:39   and he doesn't even have to run to get the cheering crowds. He could still go around

02:49:42   the country and have his little rallies. But the other thing that's, I'm not going to say

02:49:46   it's a certainty, but I think of the things that are happening with Russia, how does one

02:49:51   put this? I think there's a pretty good chance that the Russian investigation is going to

02:49:56   touch parts of his family pretty hard. Yeah. I think Don jr looking at jail time, he's

02:50:02   looking at each other. But even like, so like, I don't think Trump stays up nights worrying

02:50:07   about Roger Stone. No. But I think, I hate to admit, yes, I have wanted this all along.

02:50:13   I have wanted to see Jared Kushner be sad. I've wanted that for a very long time. And

02:50:17   I think those two guys are, have some fairly significant legal exposure. And if for no

02:50:22   other reason than I don't know. See, he, I'm the one he can't stand to be a loser in the

02:50:27   the electoral sense. But he also can't stand to feel like you've beaten him at anything.

02:50:33   I think he could. I think he declares that he that he's not running. My work, my work

02:50:37   is done. It's already great. And then he'll spend the rest of his life saying that if

02:50:40   he had one, if he had run, he would have won. Right. And it was a dollar. Yeah, I bet a

02:50:46   dollar. The dollar in the bed is the contract is does Donald Trump run? Well, at what point

02:50:55   I make it to Election Day and stay in through Election Day 2020

02:51:00   Regardless, okay. Well, no cuz he'll still be president. He needs to win. Okay. No, I think it's whether he runs your assistant

02:51:08   Type it up. I'll agree to whatever it is

02:51:09   No, let's just say that you know that the Republican primaries go off and he's you know, he's on a you know

02:51:15   He's gonna be the nominee. I thought he would drop out. I really did

02:51:18   I think I just don't think he runs I feel like and then you know, who knows maybe this next year

02:51:22   Talked about his health. He's not healthy. He thinks your body's like a battery

02:51:27   He he

02:51:31   Shaped he's a misshapen child's craft project. He doesn't want to waste his energy on exercise

02:51:36   No, that's why he's that's why he keeps leaving his phone in the cart

02:51:38   He looks like he looks like he's been he looks like something came from Michael's crafts. He's he's lumping. He's a is I

02:51:47   Think that if he doesn't run he never he's never lost and that he helps he you know

02:51:52   And he can do the rallies as long as he wants people would still go see him

02:51:55   He'll be doing rallies in 2022

02:51:58   No, Jesus. Thanks for having me back. We went long today. Yeah, it was good. Enjoy your iPad

02:52:04   Thank you very much you too. Hey, what do you want? You should you should tout something? You've got like a dozen podcast

02:52:10   What do you you've got? I mentioned do by Friday. You got do by Friday. Is there I really want to make sure people people like

02:52:17   this show in particular might enjoy a show I do with John Ciaracusa called

02:52:21   "Reconsolable Differences." That's at relay.fm/rd. I would like you to go and check out that show.

02:52:26   It's a show I really enjoy doing and John's super annoying, but I have a lot of respect for it.

02:52:31   I gotta get him back on this show soon. Oh, absolutely.

02:52:34   Yeah, but that is...

02:52:35   He's got his video games and stuff. He's busy.

02:52:37   That's a tough one for me because, you know, he's a wonderful person, but, you know...

02:52:41   Ah.

02:52:41   You gotta be on your toes.

02:52:44   Oh, you sure gotta be on your toes.

02:52:45   I don't know how you do it on a regular basis.

02:52:47   He's got all those flying monkeys. You think you got flying monkeys that guys got flying monkeys. Well, you say anything that disappeared John Syracuse

02:52:53   Anyway, it's you know, we had this we planned on doing this after the election all along

02:52:59   There was a moment. I told you there was a moment Tuesday night where I thought oh, I'm gonna it's gonna be a holiday party

02:53:05   I would I would happily come back anytime. I enjoy a program. I'm I I'm glad you're doing this and

02:53:12   I'm gonna be collecting my dollar. I think I think he doesn't run

02:53:15   [laughs]