The Talk Show

229: ‘iPhone 🍸’ With Rene Ritchie


00:00:00   René, it has been both a long week and a long day. Here we are recording at the end of the week,

00:00:10   at the end of August. And it was a very quiet week, as the end of August usually is

00:00:17   in the Apple News universe, until it wasn't. And 9to5Mac scored two blockbusters. They found,

00:00:26   They published two product marketing images from Apple, one showing the new high-end iPhones,

00:00:34   which they say also revealed will be called the iPhone 10S, spelled with a capital X like

00:00:43   the iPhone 10, and an S, which may or may not be uppercase or lowercase, and may or may not,

00:00:48   in Apple's usage, have a space between the X and the S. With a gold, almost certainly

00:00:56   stainless steel outer rim

00:00:58   And they also showed a new Apple watch which is extraordinary in several ways and then to me is a much bigger leak

00:01:05   Because it shows new hardware a definite new form factor

00:01:09   the much rumored larger display or at least

00:01:13   Larger as a percentage of the watch face display and a truly intriguing

00:01:19   New watch face which takes advantage of that bigger display and we will get to that eventually

00:01:26   But at the meta level, I want to start with this find, because I don't want to call

00:01:32   it a leak for reasons we'll get into.

00:01:34   It's truly extraordinary, if not unprecedented.

00:01:39   Tim Cynova Yeah, I mean, famously, Steve Stratton Smith

00:01:44   found firmware last year, right?

00:01:46   There was HomePod firmware put on a public directory instead of a private one, and then

00:01:50   the GM build for iOS 11 had imagery and nomenclature in there.

00:01:58   Yeah, so last year's leak, and again, part of what makes this extraordinary is that the

00:02:05   Apple world is filled with rumors and iPhone in particular just because the iPhone is the

00:02:11   most popular product and there because it's popular, it has the biggest ramp up in the

00:02:20   supply chain. So the supply chain is obviously a large source of Apple rumors and information.

00:02:28   A lot of it, you know, annually turns out to be accurate. A lot of it…

00:02:33   **Ezra Klein:** Bing-Chi Kuo just exfiltrates everything he can out of it.

00:02:36   **Beserat Debebe:** Right. And a lot of the stuff that turns out to be inaccurate is inaccurate

00:02:41   for the reason that the supply chain just wouldn't know. Like sometimes when they

00:02:45   say, oh, and we'll just specifically talk about the new high-end iPhones, which have

00:02:50   been rumored at least since January, I think, to be coming in two sizes, 5.8-inch diagonal,

00:02:56   which is exactly the same size as last year's iPhone X, and a new 6.5-inch OLED with a similar

00:03:04   size notch or similar proportion notch, same design, just bigger diagonally.

00:03:09   Like plus-sized. Right. But when the same type of supply chains come out with things that say

00:03:18   there's going to be a new thing and it's going to have a screen like this, like they have the screen

00:03:23   information because they're talking to the suppliers who are making the screens. But when

00:03:27   they say that this is going to ship or such and such product might be announced at WWDC in June,

00:03:33   or it's going to be a low-cost product or a high-cost product or something like that,

00:03:39   Those sort of things often prove to be incorrect because the supply chain doesn't know when

00:03:43   Apple's going to announce things and doesn't know how they're going to be priced.

00:03:50   Product names is another thing that the supply chain doesn't know about and is usually

00:03:55   a very well-guarded secret.

00:03:57   The leak you mentioned last year, one thing we didn't know last year going right, just

00:04:01   days in advance of the iPhone 10 announcement, we didn't know what Apple was going to call

00:04:05   the phone.

00:04:06   Nobody had a good guess.

00:04:09   I don't know that anybody guessed iPhone 10 with a capital X. I don't even recall

00:04:16   anybody guessing that. And that was revealed, as you said, through a leak of the iOS 11

00:04:23   GM build that Steven Trotton Smith found and had the cleverness to decompile and analyze

00:04:31   and find unique resources, including the string of the name. So that was the thing. The curious

00:04:36   thing about it is because we only had the string where it was iPhone space capital X,

00:04:42   we didn't know whether it was going to be pronounced X or 10. But we did have the name.

00:04:47   Dave: Like Final Cut Pro X or OS X because Apple goes both ways.

00:04:53   Dave They hurt them and their exes.

00:04:56   Dave So these images were found by probably the

00:05:00   only person in the world you could compare to Steven Croton Smith, Guillermo Rambo, a

00:05:05   very talented hacker who lives in Brazil, correct?

00:05:10   - Yes.

00:05:12   - And a 9to5Mac contributor.

00:05:16   They published two stories, one with the iPhone XS

00:05:21   revealing this image of two gold iPhones,

00:05:24   the smaller one on top of the larger one,

00:05:26   and said that the name would be iPhone XS.

00:05:32   I'll say XS just knowing that Apple,

00:05:35   if that's actually the name,

00:05:36   Apple's surely going to pronounce it 10S.

00:05:39   - Yeah.

00:05:40   - And just at the meta level, this is extraordinary.

00:05:45   I can't remember, call it product marketing images

00:05:48   like this, product marketing images.

00:05:50   And again, this, you know, things like if somebody

00:05:52   on the supply chain snaps a photo of a pre-release photo

00:05:56   or image, which I think has happened before.

00:05:59   - Yeah, well, people famously either at stores

00:06:03   were a supply chain, they would take a shaky blurry cam photos that were never good looking

00:06:07   enough to really believe.

00:06:08   Right. Didn't the fat nano leak like that?

00:06:11   Yeah, well, Seth Weintraub famously, 9to5Mac, I think that was one of their big initial

00:06:14   scoops was an actual marketing image of the fatty nano.

00:06:17   Oh, it was a marketing image. That wasn't a supply chain.

00:06:19   And I think Apple cease and desisted it back then.

00:06:23   But these are definite products. I mean, I'm sure everybody listening has seen them. And

00:06:26   I'll put these in the show notes and I'll do the fancy thing where if you look down

00:06:30   your podcast player now will change the album art for this episode to show you the images as we're

00:06:34   talking about them. These are the images you would see on stage or like Apple's newsroom would have

00:06:42   embedded in the press release, right? Like this is the hero shot and yes that they as they would

00:06:47   call it of these these two products. And that just sort of thing we just don't I can't recall

00:06:55   something like that leaking in a lot or at least in a long time, like you said, like the fat nano

00:07:00   leaked, but it's been a long time and I can't remember it for an iPhone. So presumably,

00:07:06   this just addresses at the meta level. I am certain that this was not leaked by a rogue

00:07:13   Apple employee to Guy Rambo. I believe that he found these exposed somewhere on the internet

00:07:21   on a public-facing URL. I'm not quite sure exactly how. And I think it's—

00:07:27   Well, he was tweeting at the same time that he was watching a test of rare broadcast for

00:07:32   coming up with broadcasting tests for the event coming up. Yeah, I'm saying like, yeah,

00:07:36   airpower images.

00:07:39   But that was it. That's a red herring. He so he was tweeting that I, I would guess he's

00:07:44   got a lot of things going on at the same time that he's very talented multitasker. But that

00:07:48   led a lot of people to speculate or just jump to the conclusion that this video test stream

00:07:54   URL that he was looking at and scrubbing through was the source of these images.

00:07:59   Yeah, but they don't be marketing images.

00:08:01   No, you don't. And it wouldn't explain that certainly wouldn't explain why there

00:08:06   were only two. Like if if, you know, and that's he had the airpower shot because they were

00:08:11   just the test stream was showing things from the last year's keynote where where the

00:08:18   airpower was shown. So that was a red herring. That's not where he got these from. It just

00:08:24   happened to be the same day that he uncovered these images.

00:08:28   And it is a bit funny, I don't know if it's a coincidence

00:08:31   or not, but on the same day, at 9 a.m. Pacific,

00:08:35   Apple sent out the invitations to the press event,

00:08:37   which we know will be Wednesday, September 12th,

00:08:39   as you predicted first, and as I concurred with your logic,

00:08:44   that they wouldn't do it this week, Labor Day week.

00:08:48   They wouldn't do it on, they like to,

00:08:52   They do always like to do Tuesdays or Wednesdays.

00:08:55   And the Tuesday is September 11th, which as you well put,

00:08:59   it's akin to a Memorial Day,

00:09:01   which is the best way to just say,

00:09:04   why would you do that?

00:09:06   So Wednesday the 12th seemed like

00:09:09   it was a very obvious choice

00:09:10   and it turns out to be correct.

00:09:11   So anyway, within I would think of about three hours

00:09:13   after Apple sent that out,

00:09:14   which makes enough news for a sleepy August week,

00:09:18   these images came out.

00:09:19   I'm guessing that was a coincidence.

00:09:21   I can't imagine why Apple sending out invitations to the event would coincide with someone in

00:09:27   Apple's Markham team inadvertently putting these two images somewhere where they shouldn't

00:09:31   have been exposed.

00:09:32   Peter: You mean like you found the URL for the Apple Park ring logo and started putting

00:09:37   another flag on it?

00:09:38   Steve: Yeah, I don't think that's what happened.

00:09:39   I don't think they were there.

00:09:40   Peter; Oh, we should also say like a lot of people were really confused by the invitation

00:09:43   and thought maybe it was a camera or a round watch, but that's the Apple Park logo.

00:09:47   It's the same one you see on t-shirts and other Apple products. Yeah, what was the other one?

00:09:53   So that the invitation, you know, the the Apple Kremlin ology of you know, analyzing the it was like I

00:09:59   Also forget the exact words. It was like gather round. All right, come on gather round. Yeah

00:10:05   Yeah it I guess because I've been to Apple Park and I've seen the t-shirts that they sell that I did I've

00:10:14   Instantly recognize that as the the logo mark that they use to represent Apple Park as a campus

00:10:20   But I got inundated with people speculating that it would that it meant that there the new Apple watch was going to be round

00:10:28   Yeah, no

00:10:30   Well

00:10:33   You sadly I I would be sure I don't want around Apple watch

00:10:37   But it would be it would be intriguing and different and spur a ton of stories, right?

00:10:41   or I guess I guess what you meant by sadly is it would certainly make for a more in

00:10:44   Interesting interpretation of the yes invitation then simply here's where the event is going to be. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I get it. I get it now

00:10:52   When we talk about the Apple watch the new Apple watch we can talk

00:10:55   Let's let's table that see if you can remember this to talk about why?

00:10:59   They don't make around it. Watch. Yes

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00:13:31   I still think, at the meta level,

00:13:32   I think it's so damn curious that he got two and only two,

00:13:35   and they are both intriguing, but there was no more,

00:13:38   and surely there is a lot more to be shown and seen.

00:13:43   - Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:44   And the ones he did get are interesting.

00:13:47   The iPhone one, it looks very similar

00:13:48   to previous iPhone X and iPhone artwork.

00:13:51   Apple likes that angle, they like that style,

00:13:53   But it's got these images of planets on it

00:13:56   that just make it look almost like a humpback whale

00:13:58   or a lava lamp that's been squashed down or something.

00:14:01   - Yeah, my first look at this when the news broke,

00:14:04   I was very confused at first

00:14:07   'cause I was looking at it on my iPhone.

00:14:08   And on the iPhone, because they show this sort of,

00:14:13   I don't know if that's Mars or some other--

00:14:16   - Jupiter, I don't know.

00:14:17   - I guess it's Mars, but I don't know.

00:14:19   But it's some kind of Mars-like planet.

00:14:22   Maybe it's Mercury, maybe it's just some science fiction planet that they've rendered,

00:14:26   I don't know.

00:14:27   But it's some kind of planet shown where you only see sort of a crescent slice of it

00:14:34   that the angle that they show it as, it's just a wallpaper, but at first look it looks

00:14:39   like a bulbous, you know, like a 3GS style humpback as opposed to a flat phone.

00:14:46   And it's like, "What?

00:14:47   That can't be."

00:14:48   But then once you really figure out,

00:14:50   you see exactly what's going on.

00:14:52   - It was that and the actual yellow gold,

00:14:55   like gold coin gold on the sides that caught my attention

00:14:58   because Apple did champagne gold first with the 5S

00:15:02   and then rose gold, the iPhone 8 gold version

00:15:04   is actually like a copper rose gold,

00:15:06   but this is gold gold.

00:15:07   - Right.

00:15:08   And so that's, you know,

00:15:11   so the biggest leak iPhone wise

00:15:16   that was revealed by this scoop by Guillermo Rambo

00:15:21   for 9to5Mac, it was the name in my opinion.

00:15:24   And I would say the second biggest

00:15:26   is the nature of the gold, like what type of gold.

00:15:30   Because the supply chain links from months,

00:15:33   almost the entire year, have indicated

00:15:36   that there were gonna be two sizes

00:15:38   of the iPhone X's successor.

00:15:40   And one of the things that was misinterpreted

00:15:44   so stupidly and parroted was the fact that out of the supply chain came the, to me, unsurprising

00:15:51   news that the iPhone 10, the one we know from last year, was going to be stopped in production.

00:15:59   And the idea is it's just that come the end of September, when the new iPhones are out,

00:16:06   you'll be able to fly these two new iPhone XS models. There's going to be a new

00:16:13   which we can talk about in a bit, un-leaked by a 9-to-5 Mac, a 6.5-inch or 6.1-inch, I'm

00:16:22   sorry, diagonal, about seemingly halfway between the two sizes of the iPhone XS with an LCD screen,

00:16:29   but with the iPhone X basic form factor of no home button and a front-facing sensor array,

00:16:40   a.k.a. Notch, and a corner-to-corner round-wreck design, etc., etc.

00:16:44   Right. It's a replay of the 2013 playbook where they end of life the iPhone 5 and replaced

00:16:50   it with the 5s and the 5c.

00:16:52   Exactly. That's their strategy. But it was grossly, I believe, willfully misinterpreted.

00:16:57   Yeah, Forbes made it sound like they were going to come to your house and stake away

00:17:00   your existing iPhone X.

00:17:02   Right. And that they were abandoning the basic idea.

00:17:04   They were killing it.

00:17:05   Right.

00:17:06   It was a failure and it was being killed.

00:17:07   it's a failure, it's being killed.

00:17:09   But that leaked from the supply chain.

00:17:10   I believe it's unsurprising given the nature

00:17:13   of the iPhone 10, but it's not just going to hang around

00:17:15   at a lower price point as they've done most years.

00:17:17   - Yeah, it's too expensive to make.

00:17:19   I mean, if you look at it, the,

00:17:20   well, I mean, like the OLED screen,

00:17:22   Samsung charges a fortune for those screens.

00:17:24   And if you wanna price it down at a normal iPhone level,

00:17:27   saving some money and going LCD and a few other,

00:17:29   and aluminum, I think is a really good strategy.

00:17:32   - Yeah, but we knew that.

00:17:35   I say new knowing that we didn't know no, you know, the way that like, let's say, Tim Cook knew,

00:17:42   right? That Jeff Williams knows, you know, that Phil Schiller knows.

00:17:49   Johnny might have a clue. Yeah.

00:17:51   Right. Johnny might have a clue as to what is really coming. But we on the outside following

00:17:56   the rumors could be, could reasonably wager a very large sum of money that they were coming out. They

00:18:04   They were doing away with the iPhone,

00:18:06   last year's iPhone 10, replacing it with an updated,

00:18:09   exact same size 5.8-inch diagonal OLED.

00:18:14   A big brother, plus-sized, if you will,

00:18:18   6.5-inch version of the same design.

00:18:21   And the gold, quote-unquote, gold stainless steel rim

00:18:29   was also leaked.

00:18:32   And I believe this was something

00:18:33   it was rumored for the original iPhone X, is that right?

00:18:36   - Yeah, yeah, there was rumored to,

00:18:37   I think they even put it through FCC clearance,

00:18:39   the gold version, and there was a bunch of stories

00:18:42   that either, 'cause you can't anodize stainless steel

00:18:46   the way you can aluminum, that's why the Apple Watch

00:18:48   has a DLC, a diamond-like carbon coating,

00:18:51   and that's a form of vapor coating,

00:18:53   and you can vapor coat in gold, but it's trickier.

00:18:56   And some people are saying it just took too long

00:18:59   to do it, or it didn't look up to Apple standards,

00:19:02   But traditionally Apple has saved the new colors

00:19:04   for the S years where the design is the same,

00:19:06   but they wanna, you know,

00:19:07   humans will treat a new color like a new design anyway,

00:19:09   so it gets a lot more attention if they have the new design,

00:19:12   the new colors.

00:19:13   - Yeah, I can't help but think

00:19:15   that that must have played part of it,

00:19:17   that maybe it was the trickier color,

00:19:19   maybe they kinda were thinking about doing it last year,

00:19:21   but I can't help but think that maybe it was also strategy,

00:19:24   'cause they obviously knew.

00:19:25   I mean, the pipeline is at least two years long on iPhones.

00:19:29   And so at some point, when they were completely finalizing

00:19:34   the exact plans for the iPhone X,

00:19:36   they already knew that the next year's phones,

00:19:39   to replace it, would be the XS in these two sizes.

00:19:44   And strategically, I can't help but think

00:19:45   that they might have wanted to hold gold for that

00:19:48   so that there would be a version of it

00:19:51   that was instantly recognizable as brand new.

00:19:54   - Yeah, because people want other people

00:19:56   to know they have the new iPhone.

00:19:58   We're kind of vain that way.

00:20:00   - It definitely drives sales for some people

00:20:02   who are thinking that, and then I think the other factor

00:20:04   is advertising, that it gives them an iPhone XS

00:20:09   to photograph and put on billboards and put in commercials

00:20:15   and put in full-page magazine ads

00:20:18   that's instantly recognizable as new,

00:20:20   both from the original iPhone X and now,

00:20:23   in terms of having a color that we've never seen

00:20:25   in an iPhone before.

00:20:27   Yeah, absolutely. It's like a win-win.

00:20:30   Yeah. So Apple's history with gold-colored metals, on the iPhone side, they've had

00:20:37   the anodized gold and rose gold. The Apple Watch has the same two shades, gold and rose

00:20:43   gold, although the original Apple Watch didn't have a gold aluminum one.

00:20:47   Yes. It was real gold, and then I think six months later, the rose gold and gold aluminum

00:20:53   came out.

00:20:54   - That's right, it was, yeah, that's right.

00:20:56   They came out with them at the, like in September.

00:20:58   - Yep.

00:20:59   - 'Cause they didn't come out,

00:21:01   like so September of whatever year,

00:21:04   they announced the Apple Watch.

00:21:06   - Yes. - And so it'll ship

00:21:07   next year.

00:21:08   It shipped around April, did not have gold.

00:21:11   And then come that next September,

00:21:13   they had no new Apple Watch to announce,

00:21:15   'cause they'd only shipped the original one

00:21:18   five to six months prior.

00:21:19   But by having the gold aluminum ones,

00:21:22   as they called them at the time, the sport models, they did have something new to show.

00:21:29   But the gold that we see here is visually akin to the true gold of the original Apple

00:21:39   Watch edition, right? It is gold, shiny gold, gold.

00:21:43   Steven: That's what every Bruins fan has been waiting for.

00:21:46   - Right, 'cause the big, it is different,

00:21:48   because with this edge-to-edge design,

00:21:50   there's no room for white on the front face.

00:21:53   All the previous gold iPhones have had white front faces.

00:21:57   And I've always thought black would be an interesting look,

00:21:59   even with the subdued gold of anodized aluminum

00:22:03   as opposed to this.

00:22:04   I just think black and gold is a good combination.

00:22:07   You see sports teams everywhere,

00:22:10   the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Boston Bruins.

00:22:12   It's a good look.

00:22:15   And I think with this, I can't imagine

00:22:17   that they've ever even considered making the notch white.

00:22:21   It just wouldn't look right because it just ruins,

00:22:25   having that black bezel is what gives you the illusion

00:22:28   of an edge-to-edge screen.

00:22:29   - Yeah, some people have mocked it up

00:22:30   and it just, it looks wrong.

00:22:32   - Yeah, it really isn't supposed to,

00:22:36   like the whole idea of the iPhone X appearance

00:22:38   is notch aside, it's supposed to create the illusion

00:22:41   of a truly edge-to-edge screen.

00:22:42   And it's not, there is a bezel.

00:22:45   and we can get into bezel wars with other companies

00:22:48   and find Android phones with even narrower bezels,

00:22:52   at least on the sides.

00:22:53   But it's, you know, basically this entire,

00:22:58   the entire industry is moving to this look

00:22:59   of an edge-to-edge appearance,

00:23:02   and you can only do that with black.

00:23:04   - Even in this marketing image with the planet on it,

00:23:06   you don't see the notch at all.

00:23:07   It just looks like a giant black expanse.

00:23:09   - Right.

00:23:10   Yeah, and I can't help but think that's one of the reasons

00:23:13   they chose a wallpaper like that is that the notch is no longer novel, so they don't

00:23:18   need to emphasize it in the way they did last year. I believe, originally, almost, I think

00:23:24   every single product marketing image they showed of the iPhone X at the keynote last

00:23:27   year included the notch. It was sort of part of a clear but unspoken strategy of embracing

00:23:37   the notch, that we're not going to try to hide this in any way. And it would be easy,

00:23:41   this wallpaper shows. It's easy to use a wallpaper that's either black or mostly black to create

00:23:47   images that don't emphasize it. I remember specifically vividly that even when they showed

00:23:53   video playing on the iPhone 10 during the keynote, it was always zoomed in to the maximum

00:24:00   scale and therefore always showing the notch overlaying part of the video, which gave me

00:24:07   the vague fear. I thought, "I'm going to guess that's not the default." I'm going

00:24:12   to guess, A, that you can double tap that to go to a "Keep the correct aspect ratio

00:24:17   and put black bars on the side," which would happen to hide the notch. And further, I'm

00:24:23   going to guess that preserving the proper aspect ratio is the default, but now I'm

00:24:29   worried. And it was one of my first things I tested when we got to the hand-on area was,

00:24:34   How does video playback work?

00:24:36   But I think the fact that that's how they showed video playback

00:24:38   in the keynote was just part of their strategy of we are not going to hide

00:24:41   this notch, even when we show things like video playback.

00:24:44   Yeah.

00:24:45   So on this image, so all we have, we have the image, we have the name

00:24:51   and the name, I believe was was taken, you know, that Rambo and nine to five Mac.

00:24:58   I believe they got it from the file name of the image that they found.

00:25:03   Yeah, which is why there's no indication of capitalization for this.

00:25:06   Although it is a little curious if you know that they don't know if there's a space between the

00:25:13   X and the S. Although I suppose if the file name wasn't had no spaces or underscores or dashes

00:25:18   period, if it was just I P H O N E X S. It's possible, you know, I guess I would see that

00:25:26   and say, I don't know. I have no, you know, I wouldn't know where that space is either. Yeah.

00:25:31   I'm skipping around a little between the meta aspects and the details of this, but

00:25:41   I just want to emphasize, because so many people have—I just want to try to put this

00:25:46   to rest as best I can, even though it seems impossible. I just want to put to rest the

00:25:51   notion that this was a "controlled or deliberate leak" from Apple. Which, I know, I'm

00:26:00   and I don't want to laugh at the notion because of any company in general, any company, period,

00:26:07   that's a possible strategy. It is in the specific case of Apple as a company and the iPhone and a

00:26:17   new industrial design for Apple Watch in particular is something that nobody at the company would ever

00:26:22   even it wouldn't even cross their mind. Yeah, I mean, it's almost all the time when you see

00:26:29   something like this, you see someone's, oh, Apple's just leaking it to set expectations, which is

00:26:33   never the case. Right. They have and they truly and deeply want the surprise of revealing

00:26:43   every single aspect that's new of these products, they would like to keep as under wraps as possible

00:26:49   until it's unveiled in exactly the way that they want it to be unveiled.

00:26:53   Right. It's like surprise and delight is their mantra. And they get,

00:26:57   it's also a good business sense because they get so much marketing, free publicity

00:27:01   out of the shock and awe of a reveal that anything that takes away from that

00:27:06   literally costs them money. Right. And no offense to 9to5Mac or Guillermo,

00:27:10   but even if they did lose their mind and were going to leak it, they wouldn't leak it to 9to5Mac.

00:27:18   Yeah, it would be like the Wall Street Journal or all things. What is it called? Pachowski

00:27:22   at Recode or gas, but I just it would still be so shocking. I know, you know, I can't even imagine

00:27:28   if if somebody you know, like if jaws came in, like who would do the leaking even like,

00:27:37   like if jaws came into somebody's office and said, Hey, close the door. Here's what I want you to do.

00:27:44   I want you to take these two images.

00:27:46   (laughs)

00:27:48   There's two of the slides.

00:27:48   - He's in a trench coat, he's got a hat on.

00:27:50   - We've got two of these slides from the keynote

00:27:53   and we just can't wait to show them.

00:27:56   So Phil and I were talking, we wanna get them out.

00:27:59   (laughs)

00:28:00   Can you send these to, let's send them to 9to5Mac

00:28:04   and get people excited for the iPhone.

00:28:08   If somebody, if JAWS came in and said that to somebody,

00:28:11   that person would think that they,

00:28:13   that Jaws had lost his mind.

00:28:15   Like they wouldn't do it.

00:28:17   You know what I mean?

00:28:20   It's almost like,

00:28:21   like if he came in and handed him a gun and said,

00:28:27   "I want you to shoot me in the leg."

00:28:28   You know, like you wouldn't do it.

00:28:32   It's just so out of character for Apple.

00:28:34   And I can't, and I try not to debate it too much on Twitter,

00:28:38   but I think I said to somebody,

00:28:40   something to the effect of even if they were going to leak it, which they never ever would,

00:28:44   it wouldn't go to nine to five Mac. And then like the response was, no, that's exactly

00:28:48   why it went to nine and five Mac because they don't, you know, nobody believe it, right?

00:28:52   Nobody would believe it. That of course they leaked it to Guillermo Rambo because then

00:28:56   everybody will think he found it because you know, he's the sort of person who could find

00:29:01   it and therefore that's also proud. I don't think he'd ever turn out, you know, work that

00:29:05   he didn't earn. Right. But that's, you know, the basic thinking behind that, the theory

00:29:10   that it's a deliberate leak and why it went to gear mo Rambo at 9 to 5 Mac was that Apple

00:29:15   didn't want it to look like a leak and you know a purposeful leak and all I all I can

00:29:21   say is they would never do that I think knowing I don't know a lot of the behind the scenes

00:29:27   reaction at Apple to this leak but I know the little that I do know is that it was deeply

00:29:35   upsetting

00:29:36   - Yeah, oh, yo, absolutely.

00:29:38   I think that was probably one of the,

00:29:40   there's nothing that those teams who work on this,

00:29:42   everybody from marketing and PR to hardware

00:29:45   and software engineering loves more than the big reveal.

00:29:48   And anytime, it's sort of like the script for "Star Wars"

00:29:51   being leaked and everybody reading it online.

00:29:53   'Cause they also now have to deal with people going there

00:29:55   and going, "Oh, this is boring.

00:29:56   "I've already seen this.

00:29:57   "Why isn't Apple surprising us anymore?"

00:30:00   And it's like, "Dude, you read the "Star Wars" script

00:30:02   "before you went to see the movie.

00:30:04   "You can do that, but then you can't claim

00:30:06   that you're not being surprised.

00:30:07   Right.

00:30:08   And on the other aspect of this that I've seen, that is the argument of, well, if they

00:30:15   really don't want these things to leak, then how does it keep happening?

00:30:20   You know, that how can a company of Apple's resources and talent not be, you know, keep

00:30:25   having these leaks?

00:30:28   And I can't explain it, but each one seems to be a different mistake.

00:30:33   It's the fact that people are imperfect.

00:30:37   - And we should also point out

00:30:40   that almost everybody is looking,

00:30:42   and I know this is harder for people

00:30:44   in the Apple community to understand,

00:30:45   but if you go towards the bigger phone and gadget market,

00:30:48   there are literally Twitter accounts and websites

00:30:50   that all they do is leak renders and carrier photos

00:30:54   and engineering shots of every single new Android phone

00:30:56   that's coming out all the time.

00:30:59   - And there's not, it speaks to Guillermo Rambo

00:31:02   and Steve Troughton Smith's extraordinary talent

00:31:06   as people who, as being able to find these things

00:31:09   and know how to exploit them,

00:31:12   expose them once they've been identified,

00:31:14   that it's almost like,

00:31:16   number one, there's only those two guys, really.

00:31:20   I mean, there might be others,

00:31:21   but they're still haven't found,

00:31:23   might be other people trying,

00:31:24   dozens, hundreds of people trying the same thing,

00:31:26   but they never seem to come up with anything.

00:31:29   But it's almost like they're so good

00:31:31   that it is like water finding a leak in a bowl.

00:31:35   Like if there's one tiny crack anywhere

00:31:38   in the entire process of keeping GM builds of the OS secret

00:31:43   and product marketing images secret

00:31:46   and their webpages and everything else,

00:31:48   every single thing that they need to protect

00:31:51   until they're ready to unveil it on stage,

00:31:54   the tiniest pinprick in that process,

00:31:58   Seems likely to be exposed by one or the other or both of

00:32:02   ghee and Steve because they're so good like all it takes is one mistake and

00:32:06   It boom it's out there sometimes

00:32:09   It's not even a mistake like the with supply almost everybody else at least I think everybody else gets information from the supply chain

00:32:14   Because there's just so much money involved in casemakers and everybody are throwing so much money around

00:32:19   That inevitably that stuff gets out because they want to be able to have cases ready

00:32:22   Because Apple won't tell them what the new phone is

00:32:25   So they're desperate to get their cases ready and sold on time because it's millions and millions of dollars

00:32:30   So that stuff gets out but with this stuff sometimes it's just that you know

00:32:34   The carriers have to test it and if they lock it up too hard

00:32:36   The carriers can't figure out how to get to it and there's all these people have to do validation and there's there's so many things

00:32:42   That go into an iPhone launch that it probably is possible to lock every bit down

00:32:47   But it's probably not possible to do it all the time

00:32:49   There's just so many chances for obscurity security by obscurity failing or just something going wrong

00:32:55   Yeah, I totally agree. All right, let's take a break and I'm gonna thank our first sponsor

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00:35:43   All right, one more thing about this iPhone, well, maybe a little bit more than one more

00:35:48   thing about the iPhone XS, but one that we don't have…

00:35:50   JASON ZWEIGEL: Oh, just hearing you say it, XS.

00:35:52   Well, that's so the name is a little surprising to me. So Jason Snell and I in the last episode

00:36:03   of this show spent some time guessing iPhone names and I had a draft piece that I just kept

00:36:08   revising and revising that I didn't publish but was on the cusp of publishing last week when

00:36:13   this broke my guesses for the name and the idea that they would just add an S at the end which

00:36:20   they've done with the iPhone three g to three GS the iPhone four to the four s the five to the five

00:36:26   s and six to the success but haven't done since the six s I know I spent very little time in the

00:36:33   piece even considering it I addressed it and said it's you know it they've done it before but a they

00:36:40   They haven't done it since the 6S and I believe the iPhone 6 was the I think maybe the best

00:36:50   selling iPhone ever.

00:36:52   It certainly was like at the peak of iPhone sales and it far exceeded it wasn't just the

00:36:57   most popular it exceeded Apple's expectations and that was the one that it was out of.

00:37:02   It was back ordered for the longest period of time.

00:37:05   It was the first quote unquote super cycle because it pulled people into upgrading earlier

00:37:09   just to get the bigger devices.

00:37:11   Yeah, it was just bigger in every it was, I think I knew it was going to be big, but

00:37:16   it exceeded their expectations. It took them many more months than usual to, to, you know,

00:37:21   to get it to like next day ordering. And then the six S was the other way. It was a down

00:37:27   cycle where it's undersold. It wasn't like it was a dud. It wasn't a failure, but it

00:37:32   actually didn't quite meet Apple's expectations. And I think there's several reasons for that.

00:37:37   I think that, like you said, that it was a super cycle that drove people to upgrade early

00:37:44   because they wanted bigger phones.

00:37:46   And I also think that it also prompted people to wait longer to upgrade, who might have

00:37:54   bought an iPhone 5S or even a 5, but who were waiting, who either saw the industry trends

00:38:02   or followed the rumors long enough that the rumor was that Apple would be coming out with

00:38:05   quote unquote, bigger iPhones, and that they wanted them that they would prompt them to wait

00:38:10   an extra year to upgrade to get a big one. I think both of those things were true and led to this,

00:38:17   you know, as you call it a supercycle. I think the success was, was suffered in the wake of that,

00:38:24   because so many people upgraded, like you said, upgraded early, who therefore weren't left to buy

00:38:31   the success model year, because they'd already upgraded the year before.

00:38:35   for. Yeah. But in addition to those factors though, I can't help but think that some part

00:38:43   of Apple saw the reaction to the six s as a, um, and it happened in previous years with

00:38:52   all the S phones where because they look the same, people say, ah, it's a mind, this is

00:38:57   a minor boring, right? Whereas technically I think if you were on a two year up, I've

00:39:02   this for many, many years. If you were on a two year upgrade cycle, the S year was the year to be

00:39:07   because the iPhone 3G versus the original iPhone had the exact same camera, the exact same

00:39:15   processor. Yeah, it really only added, I believe, 3G networking, which is a big deal. I mean,

00:39:21   it was significantly faster than the edge networking and GPS. I don't think it had anything

00:39:26   else. It just, you know, it wasn't serious. It was a reasonable upgrade just to get 3G

00:39:33   networking. But the 3GS was the first one where there was a real performance increase

00:39:39   in a real I mean, it was a really, really big video recording and it added video recording.

00:39:46   All sorts of things the four s I think was we could skip the four but it was still a

00:39:54   Very nice upgrade over the iPhone 4.

00:39:56   It fixed the antenna issues.

00:39:57   - Siri was the big deal there, yeah.

00:39:58   - Siri was the thing.

00:39:59   The 5S is when they went from 32-bit processor

00:40:03   to the 64-bit, shocking the industry,

00:40:06   literally shocking anybody who follows

00:40:07   the semiconductor industry.

00:40:09   - Where's they at Qualcomm's life?

00:40:11   - At a very technical level, a truly significant,

00:40:16   put them ahead of the competition by years,

00:40:21   technical upgrade was an S-mile.

00:40:22   Change their whole chipset architecture and which has served them for you know from then on right? It really was the start of the

00:40:29   And touch ID throw in yeah

00:40:32   Frosting right? It was a really good upgrade

00:40:35   Five s was a very nice upgrade. Oh, no, we just talked about the 5s success was a good upgrade

00:40:41   But I but it seemingly got more of a bad rap like a rap of

00:40:46   This is just a minor upgrade over last year than before and I 3d touch which a lot of people didn't

00:40:52   find appealing. And you know, they might have been running into the part where people do the CPU

00:41:01   improvements are there and they're real. Yes. But the six was so fast that nobody was complaining

00:41:08   about it being slow. Yeah. And the rose gold appeal to me and Christina Warren, but not enough

00:41:12   people. I and I also just can't help but feel that at that point. It's like that. It's not like the

00:41:20   5 and 5S, like the iPhone wasn't already a mass market, tens of millions of purchases

00:41:27   per quarter product it was. But at some point there's a curve where in the early years,

00:41:33   it was a product for early adopters, certainly the first generation iPhone was.

00:41:38   **Ezra Klein:** Well, I get what you're saying though, because when you put the S on,

00:41:42   it does set expectations. So the press knows it's, for example, it's an iterative update, but also

00:41:47   people start grokking into that and they go oh it's just an s do i really want it and i think that

00:41:51   might have played into why the eight was eight and not seven s yes exactly where i'm going that

00:41:55   i can't help but think that apple blames a little bit of the six s's disappointing sales on the name

00:42:01   just a little i i think there's other reasons that are bigger that simply because the six was such a

00:42:07   spectacular hit but i can't help but think i thought i mean again i'm obviously wrong if

00:42:13   if the name of this product is the 10S, I was guessing that Apple might never do the

00:42:18   just add an S again because the 6S was such a dis—that's my very long digression of

00:42:24   saying I really never expected to see an S phone again whether it looked the same as

00:42:28   the last year or not.

00:42:29   Jared Polin (01h00): And someone on Twitter said tennis and now

00:42:30   I can't stop pronouncing it that way.

00:42:32   Dave Asprey (01h00): Yeah, Jason Sonnell even used the tennis ball

00:42:36   emoji in one tweet. It was just the iPhone and then a tennis ball. Anyway, I—

00:42:41   Anyway, I work it's like excess access access, eggs is I mean, like, it's just so many.

00:42:46   My, my I really did I didn't in my article, I tried I think I did a much more I still haven't

00:42:54   published it. But because I still haven't revised it in the wake of this, you know,

00:42:58   knowing quote unquote, knowing that the name is access or tennis, I keep saying access not to

00:43:05   it's gonna be impossible not to because I see it, you know, yeah. Anyway, I know for a fact like I

00:43:11   And so famously, I'm not good at, I don't have a great track record betting on Apple's product

00:43:16   names. Last year, after it was revealed that it was iPhone space capital X, I wrote an article,

00:43:23   just you know, because I like doing the speculation. I like guessing before the keynote,

00:43:29   explaining why I my guess was that they would pronounce it iPhone X, and not iPhone 10. And

00:43:36   and obviously I was very wrong.

00:43:38   But one of the reasons I thought was,

00:43:43   and I just said, because even if Apple wants to call it

00:43:46   the iPhone 10, spelled with a capital X,

00:43:48   people will say iPhone X.

00:43:51   And Apple knows this firsthand

00:43:55   because they know how many customers out there

00:43:57   have spent 10 years calling the Mac's operating system

00:44:01   Mac OS X.

00:44:02   - Yep. - Right?

00:44:04   I don't know what percentage, but it's if not a majority, it is, it is a very sizable

00:44:09   minority. They know this. And so if they're going to call it the iPhone X, why give it

00:44:13   this name? And I've heard from people and I was in an interesting Twitter thread on

00:44:18   this. And there were some people who said, you know what, I went around my office and

00:44:22   polled people and most people seem to know it's the iPhone 10. So maybe that's just a

00:44:26   function of who, who they work with being a little bit more keyed in or, or, you know,

00:44:33   little bit more Apple enthusiast II heard from people who work in Apple stores who say

00:44:38   Oh yeah, everybody comes in and calls it the iPhone X. Like if you work in Apple store,

00:44:43   you're Manning the iPhone desk people come in and they talk about the iPhone X. So they

00:44:49   know that awkward like do you say 10 and try to embarrass them or do you just go with it

00:44:52   and then look like you're done with the name from your product is and right it is weird.

00:44:56   And so my explanation for why they wouldn't just add s is if people whether Apple wants

00:45:01   them to say 10 or X, they're going to say X and therefore they're going to say X S and

00:45:06   that sounds like the word excess. Yeah, which is I don't think a word that Apple wants to

00:45:12   associate with a phone that was probably going to sell and so following 999 through presumably

00:45:20   for the large, you know, the highest end version of the larger one. Like what's the maximum

00:45:25   price of the current iPhone 10? Is it 11 over? I think 1200 Yeah, 1200 bucks. So then it'll

00:45:30   be at least $1300, $1299 for the max version of the larger one. I don't think they want

00:45:36   people calling it the iPhone XS or I would think they wouldn't. There's a nightclub in

00:45:45   Las Vegas at the Wynn. I'm not a nightclub person but it's big. You can't go to the Wynn

00:45:52   and not see the ads for it called XS. The whole reason they named the nightclub XS is

00:46:00   because it sounds like XS, which is what they want associated with their expensive, crazy,

00:46:08   big-name DJ nightclub.

00:46:10   Dave: Even the band in XS, that was the whole thing.

00:46:14   Dave: Yeah, exactly. There's two great examples where XS has been used before and in both

00:46:21   cases deliberately to create the verbal—I guess that's not a pun. I don't know what

00:46:28   what you call it, but the verbal conflation of the word XS

00:46:33   with the letters X and S.

00:46:34   So I just thought, I really just blew it off

00:46:36   as I don't think they're gonna do that.

00:46:39   And apparently I was wrong.

00:46:41   - Famously, yeah.

00:46:42   But you know, like they're smart people.

00:46:44   It's a super smart marketing organization.

00:46:45   And they usually, they have a name they want,

00:46:47   but then they make hundreds of other names

00:46:48   and they go through them and they make sure

00:46:49   there's not a better name and they check everything.

00:46:51   And they're not dummies to say the least.

00:46:53   And they had to know naming it iPhone 10

00:46:56   that this was gonna happen

00:46:58   because they're not getting out of the iPhone business

00:47:01   anytime soon.

00:47:02   And they have products like Xserve or Xcode still

00:47:06   that do use the Xs and Xs.

00:47:08   (laughing)

00:47:09   - The iPhone 10 code.

00:47:11   - Yeah, it causes so much confusion.

00:47:13   And Apple is so famous for understanding

00:47:15   that the best marketing is simple,

00:47:17   that it just seems weird

00:47:18   that we're having this conversation.

00:47:20   - It does.

00:47:21   And they do not--

00:47:24   - 'Cause if you show it to most humans,

00:47:25   They're going to say XS, I think.

00:47:30   I know I personally have a very deep—I'll go right out and say it—hatred of Roman

00:47:38   numerals.

00:47:39   I really hate them.

00:47:41   I can never figure them out.

00:47:42   They make no sense.

00:47:43   They're not human readable.

00:47:44   They're not human readable.

00:47:45   There's a reason that the ancient Romans were not very—not famous for their mathematical

00:47:52   discoveries.

00:47:53   discoveries. You know what I mean? There's a reason why Pythagoras was Greek.

00:48:02   Jon Streeter The Persians did so much math.

00:48:06   Jon Streeter Right. Right. And the reason that the place

00:48:10   where Arabic numerals were invented was also the home of numerous tremendous mathematical

00:48:17   discoveries. And the Romans didn't even have a symbol for zero. I mean, it is not

00:48:23   good system. It is antiquated. I really, by the one that I've ranted about before was the Super Bowl,

00:48:29   the NF, the National Football League has used Roman numerals for the Super Bowl. And then for

00:48:33   Super Bowl 50, they switched to Arabic numerals and just put a five zero. And I was like, finally,

00:48:39   and that's just makes sense. Because once you get up to like the 47s, it there are,

00:48:43   yeah, very long sequences of numbers in the very strange order that Roman numerals have to be in

00:48:50   to represent certain digits. And I thought it was, I thought that was so brilliant. It's like that

00:48:56   they trapped themselves in this Roman numeral thing back when Super Bowl 456 were all very

00:49:01   human readable and just hadn't had the foresight to think, "Hey, we might be in this for decades."

00:49:06   And then all of a sudden, you know, you've got XX, I, IV, you know, these crazy sequences.

00:49:13   "Hey, we'll break the sequence at 50 and then we'll just use numbers." But instead,

00:49:18   Instead, they went right back to Roman numerals, which just infuriates me.

00:49:21   And it seems that I don't know if you mentioned, I think you might've mentioned this previously,

00:49:24   if they had gone with X, they would have reset everything and had another nine years of models

00:49:28   to go through like X one, X two, X three, X four, very neat and tidy and pronounceable.

00:49:33   Right.

00:49:34   That was, it would have been very cool.

00:49:35   Like the iPhone X two, if they had called the original iPhone, the X, and if they just

00:49:39   called this one, the X two, that sounds really cool.

00:49:42   It sounds like the, like the way like fighter planes are named or something.

00:49:46   uh but no apparently we've got we're not in marketing

00:49:51   so i don't know we're apparently wrong about that but there is one thing that uh both that

00:50:01   they don't mention at nine to five mac and there was a german report into recently uh which did

00:50:13   did mention that they might add an S,

00:50:16   but that it hadn't been decided yet, which is crazy.

00:50:19   It's one of those things that drives me nuts

00:50:21   is that at the time, the date that that was printed

00:50:25   by Germin at Bloomberg, his sources may not know

00:50:30   if that was decided, but that decision was made months ago

00:50:34   at the highest levels in product marketing in Apple.

00:50:38   Like that decision is not up in the air right now,

00:50:41   and it was not up in the air last week. If it's actually called the iPhone XS, XS,

00:50:48   that decision was set at the date that the Bloomberg article was published.

00:50:52   Steven: I mean, I would be shocked if they hadn't discussed it when they named last

00:50:56   year's models because they know they come in. But I mean, theoretically, it's possible

00:50:59   that someone like Phil Schiller could go up and enter a name into the machine that eventually

00:51:05   prints out all the packaging and changes mind, but it's real late in the cycle.

00:51:09   Right. But the other thing that Germin mentioned, and I would like to speculate about, is whether

00:51:14   or not the bigger one will also be called Plus. And Germin said that was up in the air.

00:51:20   I'm thinking it will not be. I don't think they're going to call it the iPhone XS and

00:51:24   the iPhone XS Plus. I think they're just both going to be called the iPhone XS, and you

00:51:29   can get a bigger one or a smaller one.

00:51:31   Yeah. Because the middle-sized one is awkward at that point, too.

00:51:35   I think so too right that you've got a regular one and then there's a bigger one

00:51:40   I still think that was and plus plus plus and minus

00:51:42   I mean it just well and as I said, I think I mentioned this with Jason on my previous episode, but I know other

00:51:48   One reason I don't think they're gonna call this plus is that the plus in previous ones to me never only

00:51:56   Referred to the size right it referred to this to the to the fact that it was superior in several ways the plus

00:52:04   iPhone 6 plus I think I think every every one of the plus phones the ones that actually have an official plus in their name

00:52:10   Has at least some technical advantages

00:52:13   Including

00:52:16   Higher resolution not just bigger but 3x retina displays as opposed to 2x

00:52:21   although they were sort of like two and a half X because they were

00:52:25   Downscaling as opposed to the iPhone 10, which is the first true 3x retina resolution phone

00:52:32   But still I think that the downscaled

00:52:35   3x was still a technical advantage because it still had more actual pixels per inch than the non plus

00:52:43   iPhones the cameras have always had at least some technical advantage

00:52:47   ranging from

00:52:51   Having a little image stabilization the next year it had optical image stabilization for video

00:52:59   which is arguably more important optical image stabilization and video makes a huge difference for a handheld videography and

00:53:05   Almost all iPhone videography is handheld. Yeah, and what the 7+ had the

00:53:12   Or when did they start? Yeah. Yeah, I haven't had the dual camera system, right and the dual camera system doesn't just give you

00:53:19   two focal lengths for completely

00:53:21   optical up, you know non digitally zoomed imagery

00:53:27   to date

00:53:29   Only dual camera iPhones have offered portrait mode. Yeah

00:53:33   because that uses the dual camera to to you know, the

00:53:38   The way that it's hardware verse, you know merged with software to get the portrait effect is complicated

00:53:46   But it does involve verse heart both hardware and software and the hardware famously if you have a Google pixel phone

00:53:52   You can apply portrait mode

00:53:53   It does in fact imply portrait mode afterwards as a filter

00:53:56   But it can't do real-time like you don't see it in the viewfinder

00:53:59   Because it doesn't have the lenses and the silicon to do it, right?

00:54:02   so the plus is always referred to a little bit more than just the size and

00:54:05   From what I've seen we don't know

00:54:08   I mean, well, you know, but everything I've seen is that the two iPhone X s models will be technically the same

00:54:14   They won't there won't be any real advantage to the larger one other than the nature of just having a larger display

00:54:20   Yeah

00:54:23   I guess the most akin that I can think that would be would be to the iPad Pro where the

00:54:31   10.5 inch iPad Pro and the 12.9 inch iPad Pro are technical peers in every way I can

00:54:41   think of.

00:54:42   Both have true tone.

00:54:43   Both have pencil support.

00:54:45   If they're not the exact same clock speed, they're close enough?

00:54:48   Yeah, I think the memory is different, but you need that for the larger display.

00:54:53   Right.

00:54:54   And that'll be true of the iPhone as well.

00:54:55   Right.

00:54:56   The RAM will be higher.

00:54:57   Right.

00:54:58   I don't think you get any better performance.

00:54:59   Like the MacBook Pro is not as good a comparison because the 15-inch MacBook Pro is faster

00:55:05   than the 13-inch MacBook Pro.

00:55:08   Yeah.

00:55:10   But it's also, it is pretty close on it.

00:55:11   You know, there's a reason why the 15-inch MacBook Pro doesn't get its own name.

00:55:15   It's just the 15-inch.

00:55:16   Right.

00:55:17   MacBook Pro Plus.

00:55:18   So I think that I've speculated a lot,

00:55:22   and my guess would have been

00:55:24   that this would have been the year

00:55:25   where they call them the iPhone Pro.

00:55:27   I can't get over that, that they don't,

00:55:30   but much like the iPad Pro models

00:55:34   and the MacBook Pro models,

00:55:35   I think that the iPhone XS will only have one name

00:55:38   and you'll just pick a size.

00:55:40   - So does the other one become iPhone 9,

00:55:42   or does it become iPhone 10 minus?

00:55:45   - That's my guess.

00:55:46   No, my guess is iPhone 9.

00:55:47   My guess is, and this wasn't revealed,

00:55:51   so the leaks were only of the XS and then the watch,

00:55:55   but that leaves this mysterious 6.1 inch LCD

00:56:01   corner to corner around iPhone X basically looking phone.

00:56:05   I think it's very obvious

00:56:07   that they would call it the iPhone 9.

00:56:09   The number is just sitting there waiting to be used.

00:56:14   they've been upgrading that phone from the iPhone 7 to the 8 to the 9 every year. I know

00:56:23   like on Twitter, I've had very fun debate or Stephen Troughton Smith thinks they will

00:56:28   call it the iPhone 10 like C or the SE or something. iPhone 10 something simply because

00:56:37   the design is all part of it. But he also is under the impression and again, I could

00:56:41   be wrong. I've been wrong about this whole thing with the Xs and Xs, so I could be very

00:56:45   wrong. But he seems to be thinking that the X is going to stand around like the X for

00:56:51   Mac OS X as a decade-long branding thing, and they'll just increment other things

00:56:57   every year. I don't think that's true, especially…

00:56:59   Steven

00:56:59   Absolutely.

00:57:00   Yeah.

00:57:01   Especially as a Roman numeral.

00:57:03   Well, not just that.

00:57:04   I just feel like I just can't see where they would go next year with iPhone X something.

00:57:11   Xt.

00:57:12   Yeah, like somebody's throughout T, iPhone Xt.

00:57:16   Again, this would all make a lot more sense if they were pronouncing the X as an X. I

00:57:21   could see that being a decade-long thing where they just keep having iPhone X somethings.

00:57:26   And again, just resetting the numbers and doing the X2, the X3, the X4 sounds cool to

00:57:31   me. I just can't see doing it while you're calling it 10 because that to me makes it

00:57:37   sound like you're stuck for years. You're stuck on this. I've, you know, you kept incrementing

00:57:41   these numbers and then all of a sudden you're stuck at 10. Yeah. I don't know. I, I, at

00:57:47   this point I wouldn't be shocked if it, you know, the other one was the iPhone 10c with

00:57:51   an X and a C. And you know, there's precedent for that because of the iPhone 5C and the

00:57:58   iPhone 5C came in a variety of colors that, you know, totally novel compared to what had

00:58:06   become before and frankly since. And there are rumors that this 6.1 inch iPhone will

00:58:11   come in a similar array of colors. Yeah. And the C obviously, you know, for a colorful

00:58:20   model line, it makes some degree of sense. C for color.

00:58:24   Steven: And I don't know how much they care. I mean, Samsung famously skipped Galaxy, one

00:58:28   of the Galaxy Notes, like seven or eight or something. And they skipped the number ahead

00:58:31   so it would be on the same numbering scheme as iPhone because they don't want people

00:58:35   to go to a store and see like an iPhone 8 and a Galaxy Note 6 or something because it

00:58:38   would look like they were behind. But Samsung's probably going to keep incrementing. So if

00:58:43   you had a decade of iPhone 10s and they're going to 11, 12, 13, 14, then walk into the

00:58:47   store who don't know any better.

00:58:49   Right. Yeah. So you run into the reverse problem going head to head against Samsung.

00:58:53   So I don't dismiss it. It's what makes for a good debate. You know,

00:58:58   I don't dismiss the idea of this LCD model being called the XC or the X something.

00:59:05   But I don't think so. I think they'll just call it the iPhone nine because I just don't think,

00:59:14   I think being it's so far behind the iPhone 10 that as we know it, I mean in the actual 20,

00:59:21   you know, the one that's in my pocket right now from last year, because the iPhone 10 has an

00:59:25   OLED display and OLED is truly superior to LCD, richer blacks, but more energy efficient. Can't

00:59:33   see it. It is a funny thing. You can't show it in an advertisement, right? Like there's no way on a

00:59:42   TV advertisement to show how an OLED is better than an LCD because the TV itself is either an LCD or an OLED

00:59:51   So you can't show that you know or in my personal case. It's a plasma screen. So now you're mixing up three technologies

00:59:57   You but they do need something because it's gonna be bigger than the normal sized iPhone

01:00:03   10 s and you do need something to indicate that it's a lower tier product

01:00:08   It's not a higher tier product and both 9 and C might be able to do that

01:00:12   that.

01:00:13   Right.

01:00:14   And especially, I think nine.

01:00:15   Well, I don't know if she would do that, though, if it's called iPhone 10, C and iPhone 10

01:00:19   s, and it's mid size, I don't know. I don't know how a typical consumer would come in

01:00:25   and just say and see this as a $200 lesser phone. I mean, I'm presuming it'll be like

01:00:30   an $800 starting point and $1,000 starting point for the iPhone 10 s. I just don't see

01:00:36   how if you call it the 10 anything, that comes across.

01:00:39   And then, you know, it's not like, oh, poor Apple,

01:00:44   pity them, tens and tens of millions of people

01:00:47   are buying the $800 new iPhone

01:00:49   instead of the $1,000 new iPhone.

01:00:51   I mean, it's not like they're giving these things away

01:00:54   versus selling the iPhone 10.

01:00:56   I mean, it's still a very expensive phone.

01:00:58   It used to be the highest, you know,

01:00:59   that until last year it was the highest priced phones

01:01:02   that they sold.

01:01:03   I expect them to be at the same pricing tier.

01:01:05   But I, that doesn't really make a lot of strategic sense

01:01:10   to me and everybody knows or follows it

01:01:12   that the iPhone 10's commercial success

01:01:16   significantly raised the average selling price

01:01:19   of iPhones this year, which is sort of unprecedented,

01:01:24   you know, for a 10 year old computing platform.

01:01:26   Like prices tend to, inexorably tend to go down over time

01:01:31   in the computer industry and they've certainly gone down

01:01:35   for all of Apple's competitors in the Android space. And the iPhone 10 was such a spectacular

01:01:43   hit and so much more expensive than previous iPhones that it significantly raised the average

01:01:49   selling price of an iPhone. And again, I don't think that the iPhone, the 6.1 inch one, the

01:01:55   one that I'll call the iPhone nine, I don't think Apple has like crippled it in any way

01:02:02   to drive this. I think if anything going to this corner to corner edge to edge notch display

01:02:08   and the no home button thing as opposed to staying with the iPhone 8 classic, you know,

01:02:15   front face technology that they're being aggressive about moving this stuff, you know, like face

01:02:21   ID to the second tier. Yes. But I can't help but feel though that calling it iPhone nine

01:02:29   versus the iPhone XS wouldn't make much more clear that it's one click below, just

01:02:36   because the number's one click below.

01:02:37   Jared Polin Yeah, no, absolutely.

01:02:40   Dave Asprey So that's my guess. My guess is just the

01:02:43   most obvious thing in the world, which is that this phone, that phone will be called

01:02:46   the iPhone 9.

01:02:47   Jared Polin Everyone in Germany will be so confused.

01:02:49   Dave Asprey And they'll say, you know, I could see it

01:02:52   like I could, I'm not quite sure what order they would come out in the keynote.

01:02:58   What do you think?

01:03:02   I kind of think you would do the iPhone 9 first.

01:03:05   Yeah, they did C before they did 5S.

01:03:07   Did they?

01:03:08   I see.

01:03:09   I don't remember that.

01:03:10   It makes sense.

01:03:11   Tim Cook came out and said that the iPhone business is so big now, it's expanding, that

01:03:15   for the first time they're going to do not one but two new iPhones, and the first one

01:03:18   is the 5C.

01:03:19   Yeah.

01:03:20   So my guess is—I guess it would be Phil Schiller, because he's done every iPhone—he's

01:03:28   done the introduction for every single iPhone other than the ones that were introduced by

01:03:32   Steve Jobs. The only two people who've ever introduced new iPhone hardware have been Steve

01:03:37   Jobs and Phil Schiller. Historically, you think about it, you think Jobs did all the

01:03:46   first ones and then ever since he died, Phil's done these and he filled in when Steve was

01:03:52   sick. But Steve was ill for a couple of years. I don't have a thing in front of me, but

01:03:58   But I think that Steve only introduced the iPhone, the 3G.

01:04:06   I know that the 3GS was a shiller year because—

01:04:09   The 4 was Steve because he did the whole camera thing.

01:04:12   Right.

01:04:13   And the 4S was the one that was introduced days before he died.

01:04:18   So it was only three of them, right?

01:04:22   The only three phones Steve Jobs introduced, the iPhone 3G and then the 4.

01:04:27   And I do remember that with the four and it was the last one at WWDC.

01:04:31   Yeah, it was turn off your MiFis for the FaceTime.

01:04:35   It's unforgettable.

01:04:39   [laughter]

01:04:41   Johnny, these bloggers won't turn off their MiFis, but we'll just keep going.

01:04:48   So I can see Phil on stage.

01:04:53   I would think my gut tells me that you do the nine first.

01:04:57   And my guess is that the narrative would be something

01:04:59   of along the lines of last year,

01:05:01   we introduced the iPhone 10 as the iPhone of the future,

01:05:05   ahead of years ahead of its time.

01:05:09   And we introduced this beautiful corner to corner display.

01:05:13   We introduced face ID,

01:05:15   these new gestures that replace the home button.

01:05:19   And here they are in the iPhone nine.

01:05:23   - Yeah, this year we bring it to everybody.

01:05:25   - Right, and so you don't say,

01:05:27   you don't have to even mention that it's not an OLED screen.

01:05:30   You mentioned that the innovation was going edge to edge

01:05:33   with the round corners, with Face ID,

01:05:36   the gestures for navigating.

01:05:40   - And rumor has it it's that fancy new LG display anyway

01:05:42   that's 100% DCI-P3 and is basically as good

01:05:46   as LCD can get.

01:05:47   - So that's great, right?

01:05:48   Then there's things they can brag that the display is good

01:05:51   or great even, maybe not the best, but it is great.

01:05:55   - The best LCD display we've ever had in an iPhone.

01:05:57   - There you go, I can even see them saying that.

01:06:00   Best LCD, yeah, I could see that.

01:06:01   And the specific points like the color spectrum

01:06:05   and maybe True Tone, I hope.

01:06:08   I would be nice if it got True Tone.

01:06:10   That would be great.

01:06:12   - But I guess at that point,

01:06:13   it's just figuring out the price point

01:06:14   they wanna sell it at,

01:06:15   then how many features they can include at that price point.

01:06:17   - Well, we seem to know from the leaks

01:06:20   that it doesn't have a dual camera design.

01:06:22   It has a single camera. - Yes.

01:06:24   - Whether that's accurate or not, I can't say.

01:06:28   'Cause there's certainly,

01:06:29   it seems like there's also fewer leaks about this phone.

01:06:32   - Yeah.

01:06:33   - But I would guess it has a single camera design

01:06:36   and that that would be a significant way

01:06:39   that they would differentiate,

01:06:40   both differentiate it and keep the component prices down.

01:06:44   - And I think the size has confused some people

01:06:46   because especially here we conflate the size with the price.

01:06:49   like SE was smaller and famously cheaper.

01:06:52   But in a lot of markets, emerging markets and Asian markets,

01:06:56   the iPhone is a primary computing device

01:06:57   and people want to need it to be as big as possible.

01:07:00   So the combination of a lower price iPhone

01:07:02   that's also a big iPhone is gonna be hugely appealing

01:07:05   in the markets that Apple really wants to hit hard this year.

01:07:07   - Oh, and they can also say it is the largest LCD iPhone.

01:07:11   - Yes.

01:07:12   - They could also say if they introduce it first,

01:07:15   it's the largest screen we've ever had on an iPhone.

01:07:19   And they can make a comparison to the plus sized like iPhone 8 and say it has here's

01:07:26   how much more area it has even than the plus sized iPhones of the past. I'm hoping it

01:07:34   has I don't I don't I don't even know what the supply chain leaks say but I'm hoping

01:07:38   it has a true 3x retina display as opposed to a scaled down retina display. I think it's

01:07:43   2x I think that's one of the ways it's also differentiated and lower cost. Oh, that

01:07:47   That could be possible. That's interesting. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Now that

01:07:52   I think about it, going 2x, even though it's larger, could make sense. And then having

01:08:02   colorful color options and saying, "Look, we've got all this stuff." I could just

01:08:06   see that happening. It seems like a very natural way to do it. And then you move on to the

01:08:10   iPhone XS and say, "Here's the big boy."

01:08:15   Dave Asprey Yeah, totally.

01:08:17   Dave Let me think.

01:08:19   What else?

01:08:20   Anything else on the name?

01:08:21   I'm thinking iPhone 9, iPhone XS.

01:08:23   That's my bet.

01:08:24   Dave Asprey Yeah, the X thing is going to bug me for the

01:08:28   next years.

01:08:29   I just have to get used to it.

01:08:30   Dave It is definitely going to bug me as well.

01:08:33   I can't even think.

01:08:34   I've already lost count of how many times on this episode I've already said X where

01:08:38   I don't even know what to say because I don't want to confuse people.

01:08:44   know, because I find like I can say 10 when I'm just saying it, but if I ever see it written

01:08:48   down, I start to tend towards X because the X man everything is X. Yeah, I read it that

01:08:53   way. It's easier for me to write it consistently. I it's always been to write iPhone space, capital

01:08:59   X. I never there's no reason to be confused. I see it. It's a very much. Yes. It's the

01:09:06   podcast thing speaking about it where it trips me up. All right, that brings up one more

01:09:09   thing no on naming, I guess, is given that we know, quote unquote, no, iPhone XS, pronounced

01:09:18   10S, and presumably iPhone 9, where do they go next year? Because that's one of the

01:09:24   other reasons. Last year, I thought there's no way they're going to pronounce this the

01:09:28   10 because they're going to run, you know, you run into problems.

01:09:32   Next year, it'll be an actual like Arabic 10 iPhone is one zero and then iPhone XT pronounced.

01:09:40   Well, I can't believe I really and again, I might be just overly personally biased against

01:09:45   Roman numerals. I cannot believe that they would ever go to 11 using the X and the I.

01:09:51   Yeah, I really can't I really do feel that part of the reason Apple seemingly has this

01:09:57   marketing infatuation with the letter X is that X is the coolest letter in the alphabet.

01:10:03   Even if they're going to call it Mac OS X and iPhone X, they also like the way it looked

01:10:11   visually to spell it with a capital X. Same thing with Xcode, right? Xcode just sounds

01:10:16   like a cool app. I just can't—I feel like you lose that coolness if you go to XI for

01:10:24   for 11. But does it make any sense to go to iPhone 11 next year? And then where goes the

01:10:32   middle range? I guess you can have a 9S year. But you eventually, so you could go next year

01:10:39   and have an iPhone 11 in two sizes at the high end and an iPhone 9S at the $800 level.

01:10:46   But then the next year you're definitely run out of space.

01:10:48   Steven: Yeah, you're buying time. You're never fixing the problem.

01:10:51   Right. And I heard, or at least somewhere on Twitter, I saw somebody speculating that

01:10:55   they could just keep moving the high end model up. And then they could move the middle range

01:11:01   one and use reuse 10 again, but spell it with the one and a zero. Yeah, because they never

01:11:07   used it before. But I don't think you could do that. No, I mean, you can do I guess you

01:11:11   can do anything and they could call it the, you know, iPhone poop emoji.

01:11:14   Yeah, like I said, iPhone, Mother of Dragons, whatever they want, they can call it.

01:11:19   I just don't think I need any just you start using emoji in the names.

01:11:23   You know, I phone martini glass. Yes. I mean, they could do anything they wanted to. But

01:11:31   I just don't see they can't reuse 10 two years later with one zero. And have anybody be able to

01:11:39   speak about it coherently. Meanwhile, the marketing team is listening to this with the glass.

01:11:45   Exactly. Because we can do a lot of things, but I just I I can't and again I could be wrong and you know

01:11:52   Seven years from now we'll be talking about the iPhone 17

01:11:54   But yes, I really do feel like they've got to stop numbering them eventually because it just starts like the Super Bowl

01:12:01   Yeah, really? Yeah, it just starts blurring. It doesn't seem as distinctive, you know

01:12:05   The year over year is an upgrade and so I'll stick with my theory that eventually they'll go iPhone and iPhone Pro

01:12:13   And next year would make perfect sense. I guess even yeah

01:12:18   Yeah, I mean I guess the one thing that wouldn't make sense about doing it this year is if they know that the iPhone

01:12:24   10s is going to look

01:12:26   Form factor wise the same as the iPhone 10. It doesn't make sense to make such a big naming difference

01:12:32   Year after year for two phones that are visually in certain colors at least are visually indistinguishable. Yeah

01:12:38   that they would say if

01:12:41   Someday, you know and I feel like Gene Munster talking about Apple TV

01:12:45   Right, like I feel like what the Apple TV was Apple making a TV set to Gene Munster is me

01:12:51   Thinking that this is the year Apple is going to call the high-end phone the iPhone Pro

01:12:56   I get it

01:12:57   Well, they did it with the like the iPad had a 9.7 Pro and the 12.9 Pro and the 9.7 non Pro and then

01:13:03   They then they changed it to the 10.5 and 9.7 just became iPad. Yeah, it was just like that, right?

01:13:09   That's exactly you know, I saw them do that and I was like, yes, that makes perfect sense. That's really kind of brilliant

01:13:15   And it you know, it's a sort of thing that takes you know

01:13:19   Like maybe 18 months to roll out and completely make sense across the line and the second generation

01:13:24   12.9 wasn't even 12.9 mark - it was just they didn't add anything - it was just the new iPad

01:13:30   Fucking a new iPad. Oh, yeah

01:13:33   Like I don't know

01:13:36   So I guess is next year would be the year where they'll have a new form factor at the high end and call it iPhone

01:13:42   Pro but

01:13:44   again, anybody who's been betting along with me on that is

01:13:46   Very sorry, very sorry

01:13:49   Let me take another break here and thank our friends at Squarespace and we'll talk about Apple watch

01:13:54   and what we've

01:13:57   Interesting things we've learned this week

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01:15:54   All right, so the Apple watch yeah very very can we agree on that name?

01:16:01   I think that's one thing that is very nice about the Apple watch is their naming scheme

01:16:07   is very predictable and very to me it works very well.

01:16:11   I think there's although what are they what are they going to name the new series one

01:16:14   because they mean there's always an issue which what would be the new series one which

01:16:20   is a series three become less expensive and they'll keep the names anyway.

01:16:24   I think that's what they'll do. I think they'll keep the Series 3 and just make it more expensive

01:16:27   or lower the price. I mean, maybe less expensive. Yeah, I think it's very obvious that they would

01:16:32   just keep the Series 3. And I think it was probably designed with that in mind.

01:16:37   Yeah. I think that it's the—I don't think you have to have any inside information at all to just

01:16:43   speculate that first-generation products are very, very difficult, always come up with unforeseen

01:16:50   difficulties. And so the fact that the original Apple Watch, the AKA, you know, not officially

01:17:00   named, but as we call it the Series 0, didn't stick around and was instead replaced with

01:17:06   the Series, what they called the Series 1, even though it came out alongside Generation

01:17:11   and even had the two system on a chip is unsurprising.

01:17:20   Same way that the original iPhone is the only one for years and years that didn't stick

01:17:24   around for a second year at a lower price.

01:17:27   So I think by the time they got to Series 3, they felt pretty—I think that they knew

01:17:34   both this would be a great new high-end model year, and this is something that a year from

01:17:41   from now, we can definitely sell for $50 less. You know, and just has all sorts of nice things

01:17:49   like the water resistance and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, I think the name will be Series

01:17:54   4. I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if it weren't because it's obvious.

01:18:00   Don't serious 3s

01:18:02   Jesus

01:18:05   As

01:18:07   rumored

01:18:09   You know the display is larger and or you know

01:18:13   Probably I'm guessing that corner to corner, you know or top to bottom. It's still 42 and 38 millimeters

01:18:21   I think Apple likes those sizes. I think that they

01:18:23   Are

01:18:28   They are good in and of themselves and watches are very different than phones like watches aren't you know?

01:18:33   Going to get bigger the way phones have gotten bigger

01:18:35   It's an interesting juxtaposition because if they over the last let's say 13 months

01:18:41   They've been deleting bezels and on the phone. They put a bigger screen into effectively, you know

01:18:46   The same size casing as the plus size screen into the effectively non plus size phone with the Apple watch

01:18:52   They're putting a bigger screen into the same casing and with the iPad they're putting smaller casing around the same size screen

01:18:58   Yeah, it's, you know, and it's like the original or the first three generations of Apple Watch

01:19:05   have had exceedingly large bezels, but you know, they're there. And it just, you know,

01:19:10   this was like a black ring that nobody could complete. And now it's gone.

01:19:15   Well, and the other neat thing about it is that it's always been the case with every

01:19:20   Apple Watch is that, you know, these are the first products where Apple used OLED screens.

01:19:24   And the very rich blacks of OLED made that bezel seem not like something separate from

01:19:33   the display or surrounding the display, but that you just sort of lost the difference

01:19:37   between where the screen ends and the bezel begins.

01:19:40   Yeah, and that was physically the biggest display they could put in the Apple Watch

01:19:43   at the time.

01:19:44   Right.

01:19:45   So the rumor all year has been that the new Series 4 would have a larger display that

01:19:53   with shrunk bezels, meaning that the case would stay either the same or roughly the

01:19:57   same size. And just more of the black that you see within the metal frame is actually

01:20:05   taken up by a usable display than before. And this image that 9to5Mac obtained—can

01:20:12   I just say this the other day? I don't blame 9to5Mac for watermarking these images. I get

01:20:20   I get, you know, I don't post images typically during Fireball. Most websites do post images

01:20:27   and liberally borrow exclusive images from other sites. So I totally get it that in the racket of

01:20:35   posting images, you know, that you'd want to watermark it so that everybody who republishes

01:20:43   the image has to publish your website's name along with the images. But along the lines of

01:20:49   maybe Apple did this deliberately. Like I'm looking at this image as we speak.

01:20:55   If anybody out there is listening and still thinks Apple, you know, like Phil Schiller and Greg

01:21:01   Joswiak got together and said, let's let's get people excited and give them a sneak peek at the

01:21:06   new Apple Watch, that the first time that any of them would see it would include a very large nine

01:21:12   to five Mac logo that obscures part of the image. To me, that might be the single best

01:21:20   explanation of why this is done deliberately. So what we see, we see a gold or, yeah, I guess

01:21:32   that's gold, not rose gold, right? Gold. Yeah, it looks gold to me. Gold aluminum Apple watch,

01:21:41   seemingly with a sort of a top band like a tan like an off-white band

01:21:47   the the watch itself definitely looks thinner to me it's very hard to tell from an image i mean

01:21:55   the display obviously takes up a significantly larger portion of the front face there's no

01:22:01   doubt that this display is bigger corner to corner than any previous iphone or apple watch

01:22:08   But it also looks thinner to me. It looks like a thinner device. Now that could be just flattering

01:22:15   product photography. But… And… Well, you don't see the sensor bump on the back, which…

01:22:20   Right. You never know how thick that is. Right. And that is how the Apple Watch got thicker with

01:22:25   the Series 3, is that the sensor array actually protrude slightly more. I think Jeff Williams,

01:22:34   when he said so, might have even said it was less than a single millimeter,

01:22:37   which is pretty small. But I can, as a picky person and a long-time watch wearer, I can tell

01:22:43   that my Series 3 Apple Watch is a little bit more off my wrist than previous Apple Watches,

01:22:48   even if it's a fraction of a millimeter. When you're talking about devices that are only—and

01:22:55   this is very typical for the entire watch world—devices that seem to range from 12,

01:23:03   13, 14 millimeters, it makes a difference. Like, just not even talking Apple watches,

01:23:09   but just a watch that's 12 millimeters thick often feels much less chunky on your wrist than

01:23:15   a 14 millimeter watch. Even if-- - Just look at 38 versus 42 millimeters, doesn't sound like a lot,

01:23:20   but when you see it on the watch, it's a lot because it's so small. - Right. So that's one

01:23:24   area where I think that the Apple Watch as Apple continue, you know, it's so good at miniaturizing

01:23:33   what it's done. I mean, I truly—I've said this before, but I truly think that the one thing Apple,

01:23:37   modern Apple, has done that they don't get enough credit for is that they are better at

01:23:42   miniaturizing computers than any company in the history of the world. They, you know,

01:23:49   just everything from AirPods as being mini iOS devices that live in your ears to,

01:23:56   you know, and the tremendous battery life they get out of AirPods to Apple Watch, you know,

01:24:03   Every year after year the Apple watch has gotten significantly better and it's just upset just as a computing device

01:24:08   just totally nerding out and looking at this as a little tiny Unix computer with a

01:24:13   Display that lives on your wrist. It's truly amazing how much they have gotten it better year after year, but at a certain point

01:24:19   It's like the watch is unique in that you don't really want to go bigger

01:24:23   like the fact that the Apple watch is as small as it is compared to

01:24:27   Competition from companies like Samsung has been a feather in its cap and a reason it's so popular

01:24:32   but you also don't really want to go smaller in terms of

01:24:35   The face size, you know, like if Apple in theory could make an Apple watch 34 millimeters big

01:24:44   Technically that might not be appealing to many people because it's actually too small

01:24:49   Only schwarzenegger wants 48 millimeters, right?

01:24:52   you want to balance this combination of the aesthetics of what it looks like as a piece of jewelry on your wrist combined with the

01:25:01   Ability to see as much information as you can looking at it as a computer display and you have battery budget

01:25:07   You know like some people really want it to be thinner

01:25:09   But then you're spending your battery budget on removing battery to keep the same

01:25:12   Features where other people would like an always-on display or the ability to run real UI kit apps

01:25:17   Which would cost battery right and wouldn't let them get rid of so you have all these things you have to balance, right?

01:25:22   There's a ton of things to balance

01:25:24   But two things that are very obvious is that being able to put a larger corner-to-corner display

01:25:30   within the same area would be a win, like a win in every regard, like I guess with the

01:25:37   possible exception of battery life. But if your battery life has gotten better enough that you

01:25:41   can support it, that's just a great idea. And then making the whole device thinner would be great.

01:25:47   There's no doubt that a slightly thinner Apple Watch would be better. I think almost everybody

01:25:53   would agree. So would you prefer a slightly thinner watch or an always-on display if they

01:25:58   if they had the same battery cost?

01:26:00   - Probably the always on display.

01:26:02   - Yeah, me too. (laughs)

01:26:03   - Because I will say that the S3, the series three,

01:26:06   while I do think I'd noticed that it's thicker,

01:26:09   I have never thought Apple Watch was too thick.

01:26:11   - Yeah.

01:26:12   - Including the thickest ever, which was the series three.

01:26:14   So I would definitely say always on display.

01:26:17   - Yeah, me too.

01:26:18   - I still miss that.

01:26:21   - Me too.

01:26:22   - I just ran into it the other day.

01:26:24   I was carrying two beverages, one for me, one for my wife.

01:26:27   and one in each hand.

01:26:30   And there was just no way to get my watch to show the time.

01:26:34   And I really wanted to know the time very badly.

01:26:37   - Right, and if you turn your wrist, you spill the drink.

01:26:39   - Right. - If you try to get me,

01:26:40   look, it's just no wind.

01:26:41   - And it was too filled to the brim.

01:26:43   I forget if it was iced tea or coffee,

01:26:45   but some kind of, it wasn't water.

01:26:48   So they were filled to the brim and just had lids.

01:26:50   So I also couldn't, and I had a nice white shirt on,

01:26:54   I couldn't just hug the other one in my right hand

01:26:57   it would have gotten some brown beverage on my white shirt. So I just had no way to check

01:27:03   the time. Whereas if I was wearing any of my other watches, I would have been able to glance

01:27:07   at the wrist and see the time. So I would pick that. But anyway, this does look thinner. I'm

01:27:12   not surprised that if it is thinner. And again, when they're on stage and tell you how much

01:27:19   thinner it is, that number may not sound impressive. I don't know if it's one millimeter

01:27:25   thinner or something. But a one-millimeter thinner Apple Watch could actually, in practice,

01:27:32   be actually pretty significantly noticeably, "Wow, I didn't expect this to be so much

01:27:36   thinner and thinner."

01:27:37   **Ezra Klein:** And for some people, it's just a matter of

01:27:39   it fitting under the cuff of their shirt or not fitting, which is a big deal for them.

01:27:42   **Ezra Klein** That is absolutely. And it really is, in the

01:27:45   watch world, that is actually, you know, that is like just about every review I ever see

01:27:50   of a watch, like at Hodinkee or a site like that, usually mentions how it fits under the

01:27:55   cuff, like a sleeve cuff is actually what people talk about. And the other big form

01:28:02   factor change, I'll let you say it, on the Digital Crown.

01:28:07   Yeah, well there's the microphone, which I think is just a small one, but it'll aid

01:28:10   with its noise cancelling and Siri reception. But yeah, the Digital Crown went from being

01:28:14   all red to being a thin red line.

01:28:16   Yeah, so I'm presuming here but on last year's when they a series three the

01:28:23   The side of the digital crown the part that your finger if you're gonna press the digital crown in on the cellular models

01:28:30   no matter what color watch you have it's red and

01:28:33   If it's not a cellular watch then it's black. Yeah, which is I think all the other ones

01:28:39   Well, I guess the gold edition had a red

01:28:41   Dot

01:28:44   They matched right? I think they matched the color of the band that it came with

01:28:47   Oh, I forget so the ones that came with a red band had a red dot. I

01:28:51   Have to tell you I I still and again, you know, we were talking about naming being yeah, you know inscrutable. I

01:28:58   Found that I still think I still cannot believe that they put a red dot on every Apple watch that has cellular networking

01:29:07   I think people would know that you had the new watch John. Well, yeah, but who gives a shit it clashes with so many bands

01:29:14   and watch faces like so I right now I have my watch on and I have the forget

01:29:23   which one but it's from the original year of the nylon okay straps the the

01:29:28   one that's closest to black just a dark gray nylon strap which is my favorite

01:29:32   Apple watch strap ever made and I'm using the the Explorer watch face the

01:29:40   one that has red hands. And so it actually looks great with the red dot. But there are

01:29:48   other watch straps in other colors that just don't go with the color red. And there's,

01:29:53   you know, dozens. There's like 20-some different colors of watch faces that you can configure,

01:30:01   most of which don't go well with red. It's always been very baffling to me. So this new

01:30:06   one, instead of having an entire red dot, I'm guessing that this is a cellular model

01:30:09   and there's just a red ring around the outside of it.

01:30:14   - Yeah.

01:30:14   - I still don't get why it's red, frankly,

01:30:17   but it's so much more subtle that I can accept it.

01:30:22   I think this is--

01:30:23   - It's funny 'cause the Pixel 2 has a red power button

01:30:25   and people just went gaga over it.

01:30:27   And to me it was the same thing as the red crown.

01:30:30   I just don't want them to pre-choose colors.

01:30:32   - Right, and then the center of the crown

01:30:35   inside the red ring is also gold, which is new.

01:30:38   like previously it was either black or red. It wasn't the color of the actual watch.

01:30:45   I didn't notice the microphone underneath the digital crown, so that's new. I wonder

01:30:48   if that means it might have always on Hey Siri?

01:30:51   Adam: I believe it does. Well, it does because it picks up on the raising of your wrist,

01:30:57   but you don't have to say the words anymore. It's just with iOS 5, it just goes when

01:31:01   it detects the movement in your voice.

01:31:02   Yeah, so maybe that would be the solution to my getting the time when it's when I'm carrying two beverages

01:31:07   Yeah, you have to actually talk to your wife. Don't talk to your watch without pressing about yeah

01:31:13   So the form factor is exciting. I

01:31:16   Think it looks great. I think it definitely you know, and it's it's clearly, you know

01:31:21   It derivative of the original Apple watch design

01:31:26   But I think in a very good way and I think I think in a way that the Apple watch starting with the original form factor

01:31:33   Was sort of a reduction of Apple's modern design

01:31:38   Ethos, you know, I don't know how much one a credit to Johnny. I've personally

01:31:43   I'm sure I would guess Johnny I've personally would not want to take too much individual credit for it

01:31:48   I think the whole team sort of shares this the aesthetic but you know round

01:31:52   rectangles round corners

01:31:55   capsule shapes. That they reduced it to a, it's a minimal amount of area, you know, a watch is so

01:32:05   small that, you know, I think they nailed it right from the beginning that they have sort of like,

01:32:11   they came up with an iconic basic idea right away that they could, I really do mean this,

01:32:17   I think that they could stick with for well over a decade. I mean, it's the watch that Steve Jobs

01:32:23   has in that photo and that Princess Leia is wearing Return of the Jedi so you can't go wrong.

01:32:26   Right. I could honestly see like 15 years from now a new Apple Watch that is very obviously derived

01:32:33   from the designs we're already familiar with. And when you look there's a whole bunch of new

01:32:37   Android, no they don't call it Android Watch, I forget what they call it, watch OS or something,

01:32:41   watch something, I forget what Google calls it, but there's a bunch of new round ones that came

01:32:45   out and you see when they go through the interface that it just cuts off all the text all the time

01:32:49   as you're panning through it.

01:32:51   - Yeah, I know that there's a certain number of people

01:32:53   who have always not liked that Apple Watch

01:32:58   is fundamentally a rectangular display.

01:33:02   They want a round watch.

01:33:03   They think round watches look better

01:33:04   and there's tons of competing smartwatches that are round.

01:33:07   - Whole phones look like bananas.

01:33:10   I mean, there's a difference

01:33:10   when a phone becomes a computational product.

01:33:13   - Right, I feel, and I'm a person I typically

01:33:18   almost always use an analog style Apple watch face.

01:33:22   - Yes.

01:33:23   - Like I said, I'm using the Explorer one now.

01:33:24   The one I use most often is utility,

01:33:27   but you can put a round watch face on a rectangular watch

01:33:32   and it works to me.

01:33:34   It works very well aesthetically,

01:33:36   but you can't display rectangular data on a round watch

01:33:41   and have it look anything other than awful, in my opinion.

01:33:46   And there's a lot of the watch faces

01:33:49   that Apple Watch offers are fundamentally rectangular.

01:33:52   And a lot of the other things you do on Apple Watch

01:33:56   want to naturally want to present their data to you

01:33:59   on a rectangular scrollable display.

01:34:01   - Yeah, it just makes sense because it's almost like

01:34:04   you have center vision and peripheral vision

01:34:06   and a lot of the complications and now like

01:34:08   with the screenshot, the super complications,

01:34:10   those that get to exist in the periphery

01:34:11   where if it was a round face, you'd lose the benefit

01:34:14   of having all that extra data.

01:34:15   - Yep, and that is a perfect segue

01:34:18   to the discussion of this watch face

01:34:20   that we see in this screenshot,

01:34:21   which to me is the single biggest and most intriguing leak

01:34:25   of the whole duopoly of the total two scoops

01:34:29   that 9to5Mac had, right?

01:34:31   Because like I said, just to recap,

01:34:33   we knew the two sizes of the iPhone XS.

01:34:36   We knew that they were gonna have gold,

01:34:39   and I think the most easily guessable gold,

01:34:40   given that it would be stainless steel,

01:34:42   would be this very gold finger, gold, gold, right?

01:34:45   Shiny, blingy gold.

01:34:47   - It's E3PO gold.

01:34:48   - Right, so really the biggest thing

01:34:51   from the iPhone X leak is the name of iPhone XS.

01:34:54   So with the watch, the fact that the display is bigger

01:34:58   was rumored, 'cause apparently the display industry

01:35:01   is the absolute leakiest in the entire world.

01:35:04   The fact that it looks like it's thinner

01:35:07   seems like a very obvious thing for Apple to do,

01:35:09   whether it was rumored or not.

01:35:10   It just, it seems like a very obvious idea.

01:35:13   Even the fact that they don't use an entire red circle

01:35:18   for the inside of the crown seems like an obvious idea

01:35:21   because it was a terrible idea in the first place.

01:35:24   But then this watch face is like, wow.

01:35:27   It really is to me.

01:35:30   - Yeah, no, I mean, like there's like nine complications.

01:35:33   You've got four in each corner, four in the center,

01:35:35   and then one in the actual time scale around the hands.

01:35:39   - And so in the watch world, if you don't count,

01:35:43   and technically speaking, the hour, minutes, and seconds

01:35:45   count as complications.

01:35:47   Like in the watch world, this word complication,

01:35:49   which I know some people who don't care about watches

01:35:53   in general either find confusing

01:35:55   or they find downright annoying or they find baffling

01:35:58   because they think complication sounds like a bad thing,

01:36:01   not a good thing.

01:36:02   Apple's borrowed this word from the watch world.

01:36:04   And in the watch world, complication equates

01:36:08   to what we in the computer world call features.

01:36:10   So if it is something your watch can do,

01:36:13   it's a complication.

01:36:14   An hour, minute, and second count as complications.

01:36:18   So a simple watch that only tells you the hour

01:36:21   and the minute, it adds two complications,

01:36:23   hour and minute.

01:36:24   And then if you add a second hand,

01:36:25   it's a third complication.

01:36:26   But we won't count that.

01:36:27   Let's say we don't count hour, minute, second.

01:36:29   That's got nine complications.

01:36:32   10 if you count Wednesday is different than the 23rd.

01:36:37   And in the watch world, that would definitely count

01:36:38   as two complications, so that's 10.

01:36:40   - They're also more informational,

01:36:42   like you have a stopwatch with the time that's left.

01:36:44   You have the temperature, which the temperature gauge,

01:36:45   UV with UV index, you have the sunset with the time

01:36:48   that it sunrises and sets.

01:36:51   It's just so much information,

01:36:52   there's so much data contained in this watch face.

01:36:54   - Yeah, it's somewhat annoying to me

01:36:57   when I'm using a stopwatch,

01:36:58   and I wanna just keep my regular watch up,

01:37:00   but if the stopwatch is running and you raise your wrist

01:37:02   and it shows you the actual stopwatch app.

01:37:05   So, hopefully, they're moving away from that. But yeah, so it's got a stopwatch.

01:37:10   It shows you—or is it a stopwatch or a timer?

01:37:12   Oh, maybe it's a timer, yeah.

01:37:14   Because it looks like it might be counting down. I don't know. But either way, it's

01:37:18   either a stopwatch or a timer, and it shows you how much time is left, and there's a

01:37:22   little bar showing you a thing.

01:37:24   It's almost like Tufti-esque, right? Like, on the informational data displays, how you

01:37:29   can put large amounts of density without making it non-parseable to the human mind. And this

01:37:34   seems like they really took a page out of that book. It is truly fascinating

01:37:38   from a design perspective. It is also to me the most Apple watchy looking watch

01:37:44   face I've seen yet. I don't know that I personally will use this watch face. It

01:37:49   might be I'm a bit of a minimalist. I often use the utility with just the date like

01:37:58   Saturday the first showing in the traditional three o'clock thing and the

01:38:01   temperature in a corner, and I leave the other three corners empty just because I like, I just

01:38:07   like the way it looks. But it is fascinating to me, you know, I was talking to Panzareno

01:38:14   and Matthew Panzareno about this, and he really loves it. And he compared it to Iron Man's

01:38:21   HUD display that you sometimes see from Tony Stark's perspective in the Iron Man/Avengers

01:38:28   movies, which if you ever freeze frame and just really, really look at them, they put

01:38:35   an enormous amount of thought into. It's not just like—even if it's only up for

01:38:39   like a second, there's like a real logic, and it's like, "Oh, that's really cool

01:38:45   stuff," you know? That's all there available in this line of sight.

01:38:48   Steven: Yeah, it's just so—this to me is like the dashboard. If I want to see maximum

01:38:53   information at a glance, I would use this. Or maybe when you're working out and you

01:38:57   want a ton of different stuff or you're traveling and you want a bunch of information and you

01:39:00   could swipe to something way simpler if you just want to relax and kick around.

01:39:04   And that's what I like about this kind of watch too is that you can have a workout phase,

01:39:07   a travel phase, a casual phase.

01:39:10   I'm at work and I need to keep track of all my meetings phase and just keep going.

01:39:15   Well, and putting the meet, you know, your next appointment, your next calendar appointment

01:39:19   on the hour hand circular diameter of the watch face is really clever. I don't know why that

01:39:32   wasn't thought of before. Like, is it at the top because it's 12 p.m. and if it was at 6 p.m. would

01:39:36   it be on the bottom? I have so many questions. Yeah, I'm not quite sure why it's at the top

01:39:40   instead of the bottom. But that would, it's kind of interesting if that's the explanation. Like,

01:39:44   But that did occur to me, and I thought it would look better at the bottom, but I don't

01:39:50   know.

01:39:51   Because it's curved, it lets you put way more characters in the string than if it went

01:39:55   straight across.

01:39:57   I love this temperature complication.

01:39:59   It doesn't just tell you the current complication, but it shows you the daily high and low for

01:40:05   the day and includes a dot for where the current temperature is on that scale.

01:40:12   There's a UVI index, right?

01:40:14   the ultraviolet, you know, that lets you know if you should be wearing sunscreen, I guess, or not,

01:40:18   which I can only presume comes from some kind of online weather source. It's not, you know,

01:40:26   like somebody on Twitter was speculating that maybe it had the watch as a UV sensor because

01:40:30   there's a, I'm going to get it wrong, but there's a company like L'Oreal or somebody who's come out

01:40:35   with a thing that you can put on a fingernail that would show the UV index so that somebody who's

01:40:41   wearing this would know whether they need sunscreen or not, which is interesting, but

01:40:49   if it's actually based on a sensor, then it wouldn't give you any useful information

01:40:52   while you're indoors, which is typically also when you would need to put the sunscreen

01:40:57   on. Once you're outside in the sunshine, it's a little too late. So it seems pretty

01:41:03   obvious it would come in the same way that the temperature doesn't come from a thermometer

01:41:06   on the watch. It comes from a weather service.

01:41:09   Yeah, and luckily it doesn't annoyingly tell you that weather service every time you

01:41:13   ask like HomePod.

01:41:14   Yeah, and then in the center it has the date at the top, both the day of the week and the

01:41:19   date.

01:41:20   It has an iTunes controller, a music controller.

01:41:25   It has of course your activity rings over at the 3 o'clock side, and then it has a…

01:41:29   Planet Earth.

01:41:32   Yeah, that's not the moon phase, right?

01:41:35   It's Earth?

01:41:36   No, I don't think so.

01:41:37   I was thinking moon phase at first, but I don't know.

01:41:39   Yeah, I don't know what that is either. But yeah, and I love that they've made the

01:41:42   watch face into a full-fledged launcher because the carousel never really made sense at watch

01:41:48   scale and it's just so much better to put the stuff that you really need up front and

01:41:52   center just to tap away.

01:41:54   Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm hoping they're going. I'm hoping that that's exactly where

01:41:58   they're going. You know that. So instead of if I'm listening to music, having, you

01:42:03   know, the now playing come by default every time I look at my wrist, just make it easy

01:42:07   for me to go from my regular watch face to a nice tappable target to jump to now playing

01:42:13   if I really want to do that.

01:42:15   Jared Polin (01:01): Yeah.

01:42:16   Dave Asprey A terribly exciting stuff and very, very thoughtful.

01:42:20   Again, is it too many colors for me personally?

01:42:23   Maybe, but I don't think it's aesthetically displeasing.

01:42:27   I think it's actually a very, very comely watch face.

01:42:31   I really think it looks very, very cool.

01:42:33   Yeah, I like it a lot and also this is only one watch face. I would love to see how this

01:42:39   approach pertains to so many other watch faces that they have.

01:42:42   Mm-hmm. I mean, it's it seems like it would be obvious for certain faces like like Siri

01:42:48   like the Siri watch face. Yeah, which they would just put you just be able to see more

01:42:53   of the scrollable content on the face at a time.

01:42:58   And modular would be great for people who don't like analog faces.

01:43:00   Yeah, well, that modular seems interesting to me because think about how much more information

01:43:05   rich that one could get or presumably will get. And that is, you know, it's—I see people with

01:43:13   that face all the time. It's obviously a very popular face. I know that there are a lot of

01:43:18   people who just don't like analog time, and it's a great, great digital watch face. But just

01:43:26   Just thinking, looking at how much more information rich this watch face is for an analog watch

01:43:32   face, Boy Modular could get really, really information rich.

01:43:37   And if they could figure out how to make the photo face just much more complicated too,

01:43:42   then you, it would be a lot of the customization requests would just go out the window.

01:43:46   Definitely.

01:43:47   Because I could just put super, I could put like the original Superman art on there and

01:43:50   just have my Superman watch.

01:43:53   So this is terribly exciting, and I can't help but think that the inclusion of this

01:43:57   watch face in the league is the single most crushing disappointment on the team because

01:44:03   this would have been a huge surprise.

01:44:07   Yeah, it would have been a showstopper, like huge applause.

01:44:10   Right.

01:44:11   Yeah, poor Kevin Lynch.

01:44:14   I know.

01:44:15   I don't know.

01:44:16   Actually, I don't know if it would have been Kevin Lynch or Jeff Williams who would

01:44:18   be up there when this slide comes on.

01:44:20   Probably Jeff.

01:44:21   I mean, Kevin does a dub-dub session.

01:44:22   I guess you're right Kevin does the dubbed and in a way that the Craig does the iOS, you know

01:44:29   The OS one he might come out to demo what after Jeff introduces. Yeah, I think Jeff introduces it. Yeah, I think so, too

01:44:34   You're right. Yeah, I think this would have been or it still will be shown and yeah, Jeff Williams thing like if this exact

01:44:40   Image was intended as a slide. I don't I don't think that Apple doesn't use it just because it leaked

01:44:45   I think they know they just

01:44:47   Bite the bullet and pretend that the leak never happened and charge full full steam ahead

01:44:52   Well, I mean remember Steve famously going you might have seen the iPhone 4 before right, right

01:44:56   Well, that was the iPhone 4 which leaked. Yeah, I mean that's hardly even called it again hard to call that a leak the one

01:45:03   yeah, you know the

01:45:05   Phone that some poor engineer who was field testing it

01:45:08   Inadvertently left in a restaurant and was picked up by some unscrupulous people who sold it to gizmodo

01:45:17   Who then leaked it was truly distilled to this date the biggest leak in Apple history or again?

01:45:24   Not like a leak in terms of it being deliberate, but just a secret

01:45:27   Reveal information that yeah, and it's actually hard to imagine anything

01:45:32   Anything of that magnitude again and like unless a series 4 watch was left on a barstool

01:45:38   Even the series 4 watch to me wouldn't have been as big a leak as the iPhone 4 just because the iPhone 4 was so much

01:45:45   Different yeah than the iPhone 3gs

01:45:49   The only thing I can imagine that we could be compared is if somebody gets a photo of like the car

01:45:55   You know like get at some point before it's officially an unveiled someone leaves an apple car at the charging station

01:46:01   Somebody leaves leaves it in with the with the keys

01:46:06   I'm sure it won't have keys and it won't have an ignition but you know effectively so that somebody could drive off in the Apple

01:46:14   car prototype. It's really hard to imagine. It really is because the car, again, I propose

01:46:20   it as a sort of jokey example, but a car can't be left behind and can't be field tested

01:46:24   secretly, you know, in the way that an iPhone can be put in a case and left, you know, keep

01:46:29   it in the pocket.

01:46:30   Steve McLaughlin Well, just last week, right, the Nissan Leaf

01:46:31   rear-ended or something, one of the Apple autonomous testing cars.

01:46:34   Dave Asprey Oh, really? I didn't see that.

01:46:35   Steve McLaughlin It has to be reported. Yeah, it had to be reported

01:46:37   to the DMV. So, MacRumors found the DMV listing where the Apple car was an autonomous mode

01:46:43   going about one kilometer an hour waiting to merge

01:46:46   onto a road and at least we hit it.

01:46:48   And it wasn't the Apple car's fault at all,

01:46:50   it was human error.

01:46:51   - But even that's not as big, it's not a leak

01:46:53   because it's not like the Apple's testing

01:46:55   autonomous cars are Apple designed cars.

01:46:57   - Yeah, it's a Lexus SUV, yeah.

01:47:00   - So I don't know what to say about it.

01:47:01   Other than that, this seems like a very, very exciting year

01:47:04   for Apple Watch.

01:47:07   I guess cellular was a big deal.

01:47:08   For me in practice, I'm glad I have it.

01:47:11   It's worth 10 bucks a month.

01:47:12   But I can't say I use it that often just because the way I live my life, I really am

01:47:18   not that often separated from my iPhone.

01:47:21   Adam Boffa - So I had to stop using it because Rogers, which is the my phone number is on

01:47:26   Rogers in Canada, which is equivalent roughly to AT&T and doesn't support it.

01:47:30   They never built out the carrier to support it.

01:47:33   So I got a Bell line just so I could use it.

01:47:35   But my normal phone number is not on Bell and Bell's like Verizon.

01:47:39   But they did switch to HSPA plus.

01:47:41   But I just don't want to port my number over there.

01:47:43   So now I'm back to using a Rogers watch and my phone is an LTE phone without any LTE.

01:47:48   Well, I don't have anything else.

01:47:53   That's a wrap for me unless you've got anything else on this you wanted to say before we move

01:47:58   on.

01:47:59   No, I'm looking forward to this because I think we didn't even talk about new iPads.

01:48:02   Maybe JAWS introduces those, maybe not.

01:48:04   And the more affordable MacBook, which has its own naming convention problems all its

01:48:10   But it'll be a fun year just for Apple marketing.

01:48:12   Dave Asprey Yeah, and I don't think, you know, I saw,

01:48:15   you know, some people just are so willing to jump to conclusions. But I saw that Gowness

01:48:20   first leaked a couple of people who tweeted, "Well, they might as well cancel the September

01:48:24   12 event now." And I don't think that they were sarcastic. I think that they were

01:48:29   actually, you know, like, "It's all ruined for me now because we've seen these two

01:48:33   things." And it's like, they're both significant. There's an awful lot we don't

01:48:39   still. Even we don't even know if the iPad is coming. We certainly suspect that the mid-range,

01:48:45   mid-size iPhone is coming, but there's an awful lot we don't know about that.

01:48:49   Jared Polin And also the story, like these are just two

01:48:53   shots. There's no story here yet.

01:48:55   Dave Asprey Right. I don't know. This Apple Watch face

01:48:59   makes me really think that they've probably gone in and redesigned every single face.

01:49:03   Like I don't, you know, for familiarity's sake, that they might have the same name and

01:49:08   the same basic look. But why not, you know, they could take advantage of these corners

01:49:14   in all the faces in such a…

01:49:16   And if they let like Carrot Weather, have they gone in? Just to throw out a name, I

01:49:19   have no knowledge of this, but I have a bunch of third-party developers gone in and made

01:49:22   these super complications too. Because I'd be really… Did you see Carrot Weather was

01:49:26   doing the iPhone reboot joke on there?

01:49:29   Yeah.

01:49:30   On the weather fork.

01:49:32   Yeah, I did see that. That was in reference to the update your iOS beta, to the latest

01:49:42   beta thing that all of us using the beta have suffered through for the last week.

01:49:46   Yeah. Yeah. Fixed yesterday.

01:49:47   Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they called a couple of popular complication developers

01:49:52   out a week or two ago and locked them in a room and given them some… I would suggest,

01:50:00   though, that if Carrot's developer is cracking jokes about that, he's probably not locked

01:50:07   up in Kubernetes.

01:50:08   So I'm going to guess Carrot probably didn't, although that he would have been a good choice

01:50:15   because he's a very creative, you know, could have creatively made use of the space.

01:50:19   But boy, that's terribly exciting for somebody who's interested in information design.

01:50:25   And it really is such a fascinating canvas, the watch face for information design.

01:50:33   And it's obvious that Apple is thinking very, very deeply about it.

01:50:40   So that's very exciting.

01:50:41   And if you haven't read Tufte, go out and read Tufte's books on information design,

01:50:43   because it's fascinating and Apple does a lot of really good stuff with it.

01:50:46   Yeah, I totally agree.

01:50:48   His books are probably four of my favorite books that have ever been written, ever.

01:50:51   Absolutely.

01:50:52   I'll put a link to the show notes into his books.

01:50:54   books are very expensive, but they're worth it.

01:50:55   Yes. I'll just say that. All right. Thank you, René.

01:51:01   Thanks, John.

01:51:02   All right. And I will see you soon, which is always an exciting thing to say on these