The Talk Show

223: Live From WWDC 2018 With Greg Joswiak and Mike Rockwell


00:00:00   (audience chattering)

00:00:03   - Hello, fellow nerds.

00:00:06   (audience cheering)

00:00:09   Good evening, and welcome to San Jose's

00:00:12   historic California theater.

00:00:15   Tonight, we are very pleased to present the talk show live.

00:00:19   (audience cheering)

00:00:23   Before we begin, please take a moment

00:00:28   to set your Apple watches to theater mode.

00:00:31   Silence your iPhones,

00:00:33   and turn off any other electronic devices.

00:00:36   And now, please join me in welcoming Mr. John Gruber.

00:00:42   (audience applauding)

00:00:45   (audience applauding)

00:00:48   - Hello, welcome.

00:01:02   I am John Gruber.

00:01:03   (audience laughing)

00:01:07   We have a great show.

00:01:08   We have two first time guests on the talk show.

00:01:14   (audience whoops)

00:01:17   But before I get to them, I have some very, very good people

00:01:21   to thank, they are the sponsors who made all this possible.

00:01:25   First sponsor, great company, Max Stadium.

00:01:29   Max Stadium provides enterprise class--

00:01:32   (audience applauds)

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00:02:06   I don't know what ISO 27,000 certification is

00:02:09   for a data center, but apparently it is an enormous pain

00:02:12   in the ass and it's very important.

00:02:14   And I think it means it's like really good.

00:02:17   All size companies can host with them though.

00:02:21   You can be like, I don't know what ISO 27000 is,

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00:02:27   You can do that, they're set up to scale

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00:03:11   Second sponsor, another great company, Instabug.

00:03:18   Instabug provides comprehensive bug reporting.

00:03:20   I wonder why they're advertising at WWDC, I don't know.

00:03:23   Comprehensive bug reporting and in-app feedback

00:03:27   in an SDK from mobile apps.

00:03:30   Tens of thousands of companies like Lyft, eBay, T-Mobile,

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00:03:37   With one line of code, you can integrate their SDK

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00:04:00   like how they got to where they are

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00:05:06   Last but not least,

00:05:08   is a fourth time sponsor of this show.

00:05:12   It's a little company up in Redmond called Microsoft.

00:05:22   So any developer, this is what they believe.

00:05:25   Microsoft believes any developer should be able to build,

00:05:27   deploy, and scale without worrying about managing

00:05:31   your services or the underlying infrastructure

00:05:33   of your Cloud and stuff like that.

00:05:37   Whether you're writing Objective-C or Swift,

00:05:42   they've got what you need.

00:05:44   They've got the SDKs they hook up.

00:05:47   Lots of applause from Microsoft.

00:05:50   I think you guys know this.

00:05:51   But like the old days where Microsoft had

00:05:53   their own developer ecosystem and everything was Microsoft land.

00:05:58   I mean, they still have Windows,

00:06:00   they still have all of that.

00:06:00   But they've really gone and embraced just about,

00:06:04   if you develop anything,

00:06:05   if you write code, Microsoft wants to be your friend.

00:06:08   I mean, I don't know if you guys heard,

00:06:09   they bought speaking of GitHub,

00:06:10   what we just mentioned, they just bought GitHub,

00:06:12   which is probably, I mean, how many people here use GitHub?

00:06:16   But they really, they have your back.

00:06:19   They know iOS developers,

00:06:21   They know Mac developers and they really have all the things you can do.

00:06:24   Here's some of the cool things you can do in the Microsoft Cloud.

00:06:27   You can get your server,

00:06:29   you can build your app in the Cloud,

00:06:31   you can test on real devices

00:06:33   that they have hooked up in their infrastructure,

00:06:35   distribute your betas, monitor your apps

00:06:37   with crash reports and analytics.

00:06:40   For game developers, they have

00:06:44   a complete backend platform for iOS games with analytics,

00:06:48   player management, LiveOps, there's another one.

00:06:53   I don't know what LiveOps are,

00:06:54   but I guess if you're a game developer, that means something.

00:06:57   Here's where you go to find out more.

00:06:58   Really, this is great stuff.

00:07:00   If you're an iOS developer,

00:07:01   you really ought to check out what they have to offer.

00:07:02   Here's their website, aka.ms.

00:07:07   I guess they got the dot ms for the Microsoft. That's pretty cool.

00:07:11   aka.ms/iosandazure.

00:07:19   Azure is the Cloud infrastructure.

00:07:23   So my thanks to Microsoft,

00:07:24   my thanks to Instabug,

00:07:25   my thanks to Mac Stadium.

00:07:27   Last but not least, hopefully,

00:07:28   you guys partook or are partaking in the open bar.

00:07:34   That open bar was provided by Setapp,

00:07:40   Setapp gives users access

00:07:42   (audience applauds)

00:07:46   to a curated selection of high quality Mac apps

00:07:50   from trusted developers, and it's just $9.99 per month.

00:07:55   So go check out Setapp.

00:07:56   I think it's at setapp.com.

00:07:57   I didn't write down a URL.

00:07:59   (audience laughs)

00:08:01   You'll find it.

00:08:01   Google it.

00:08:01   Just search the web for Setapp and you'll find it.

00:08:04   (audience laughs)

00:08:07   So my thanks to all of them.

00:08:08   My thanks for you to being here.

00:08:10   I think it's going to be a very interesting show.

00:08:12   So without any further ado,

00:08:13   I'd like to introduce my guests for the evening.

00:08:17   First is Mike Rockwell, who is the VP of AR

00:08:24   and VR engineering at Apple, and Greg Joswiak.

00:08:29   (audience applauding)

00:08:38   - I'm sitting here.

00:08:40   (audience applauding)

00:08:43   - I told us to run out here.

00:08:44   - Yeah, it was the Craig Federighi School of Entrances.

00:08:47   - We've known each other for a while.

00:08:49   We've just met.

00:08:51   I don't think I've ever called you Greg before.

00:08:53   - No, only my wife calls me Greg.

00:08:55   (audience laughing)

00:08:56   - Everybody else.

00:08:57   (audience laughing)

00:09:00   But you are, of the three of us,

00:09:03   probably the lesser known entity up here.

00:09:06   So I would really like to start with--

00:09:07   - But the smartest guy.

00:09:08   - Well, definitely not over on this end.

00:09:11   A little bit of your background

00:09:13   and how you got to where you are.

00:09:16   So before Apple, you were the executive VP

00:09:19   of research and development at Dolby.

00:09:21   - Yeah.

00:09:22   - And then prior to that, you were the CTO at Avid.

00:09:27   - Yeah, that's correct.

00:09:28   (audience applauding)

00:09:31   Somebody remembers.

00:09:32   - But it's like a sort of a mix between

00:09:37   - A lot of audio in your background.

00:09:39   - Yeah, audio and video and 3D.

00:09:41   So at Avid we did all three.

00:09:43   But I started in audio way back when.

00:09:46   So I'm actually an Apple nerd from very old days.

00:09:51   So first computer was an Apple II

00:09:54   and then had an original Mac.

00:09:56   And the first, the reason I got into software

00:09:59   in the first place was I was studying physics and music.

00:10:04   So I was a musician and I was incredibly frustrated

00:10:07   by the applications that were out there.

00:10:10   So I started to pivot into engineering

00:10:14   and write software for doing audio.

00:10:16   And I went to a company called Digidesign,

00:10:18   which builds a product called Pro Tools.

00:10:20   And while I was there, I did one of the very first

00:10:24   host-based audio mixing and editing systems.

00:10:28   So we wrote it, the mixing in PowerPC assembly language,

00:10:31   this was a long time ago.

00:10:33   and it was a lot of fun.

00:10:36   But yeah, it's been an interesting path to get here.

00:10:41   >> So there were a bunch of

00:10:43   AR related announcements at the keynote yesterday.

00:10:48   All of them very interesting.

00:10:50   I thought it was cool in a nerdy way.

00:10:53   You know you're at a developer conference when one of

00:10:55   the major tent pole features is a new file format.

00:11:01   >> With a very sexy name.

00:11:03   >> Right?

00:11:03   >> Yeah. Our crack marketing helped us with that.

00:11:06   >> WWDC is a little different than other keynotes.

00:11:10   >> Yeah.

00:11:10   >> Because come September,

00:11:12   there might be an event in September.

00:11:14   You might know, I don't know. Who knows?

00:11:16   Sometimes in September, there's events.

00:11:19   >> I don't keep track of that stuff.

00:11:23   >> Every once in a while,

00:11:27   there'll be a geeky section where it goes

00:11:29   into how the pixels are working on the new sensor,

00:11:32   on the camera, whatever.

00:11:33   But it's still fundamentally about something

00:11:35   that everybody cares about,

00:11:37   which is having a good camera in your phone.

00:11:39   >> Sure.

00:11:39   >> A file format, you're at a developer conference.

00:11:41   >> Yeah.

00:11:41   >> But this seems like it's a really big deal.

00:11:43   >> It is a big deal. Yeah. So AR has been bouncing

00:11:46   around universities for over a decade,

00:11:50   and we brought out ARKit.

00:11:53   We made it available to

00:11:55   an incredibly large audience of

00:11:56   developers and a large audience of consumers.

00:11:59   But one of the things that has been a challenge is that in the 3D world,

00:12:04   there are a ton of different file formats and compatibility is not great.

00:12:08   And there really wasn't a format that was optimized for delivering AR experiences.

00:12:14   So we wanted to create something that was really powerful,

00:12:19   that was very efficient,

00:12:21   that was easy to use,

00:12:22   and then would get broad support.

00:12:23   So we're trying to start something which would be like the PDF of AR,

00:12:27   which is really what we think USDZ can become.

00:12:30   - Am I right?

00:12:32   Somebody told me, and I could have been misinformation,

00:12:34   people lie to me all the time,

00:12:35   that the Z in USDZ is for zip.

00:12:38   It's like USD is universal--

00:12:41   - Scene description, yes.

00:12:42   - The Z is for zipping it up for--

00:12:44   - Yeah, basically what it is is inside of a USDZ file,

00:12:48   there's mesh data and information,

00:12:51   and then there are a bunch of textures

00:12:54   that are in there for the meshes.

00:12:57   And we have textures that allow you to do

00:12:59   physically based rendering.

00:13:00   So it gives you the ability to do very realistic

00:13:04   looking 3D objects as well as animation.

00:13:07   So for those of you who've seen the demos,

00:13:09   you've seen that they look fantastic.

00:13:11   Like the koi fish you saw, you know,

00:13:13   is just this spectacular animation

00:13:15   with really realistic looking objects.

00:13:18   And so we wanted to have something that had that power,

00:13:21   but was also gonna be incredibly simple.

00:13:24   I thought that Adobe and Pixar made for an interesting,

00:13:29   so it's Apple, Adobe, and Pixar

00:13:32   who sort of got together to do this.

00:13:34   So it's not like a giant sprawling consortium of 40--

00:13:37   - Well, but USDZ, a USD is an open file format.

00:13:40   So Pixar originated it, but it is an open file format.

00:13:44   So you can go and you can get the source,

00:13:46   and the spec is completely open.

00:13:48   This is not something that's closed,

00:13:49   and USDZ is the same thing.

00:13:51   So we worked closely with Pixar,

00:13:54   and then Adobe also came working with us earlier on.

00:13:57   But we've also connected with all of the other

00:14:00   large vendors for 3D tools,

00:14:02   and because it's gonna be by far

00:14:05   the most broadly sort of supported format,

00:14:08   what they're telling us is they're gonna provide

00:14:11   native support for it in their tools.

00:14:15   - So what other, what else is in a USD file?

00:14:19   - Well, so as I said, it's really the animation,

00:14:24   meshes, the textures for those meshes,

00:14:27   and then the textures can include things

00:14:31   like all of the textures you would need

00:14:34   for doing physically based rendering.

00:14:35   So that might include like ambient occlusion,

00:14:39   where you've got areas where the object is occluding itself,

00:14:44   or being able to have effectively the bump map

00:14:48   or the normal map so that you're able to render

00:14:51   without requiring incredibly complex geometry,

00:14:54   you're able to create the illusion of

00:14:56   incredibly complex geometry and stuff

00:14:57   that looks very accurate to the scene.

00:15:00   Then we take that and in the Quick Look Viewer,

00:15:03   we render it with very high fidelity and we use

00:15:08   this new capability of AirKit 2 called Environment Texturing,

00:15:13   where it looks at what the camera is seeing and it's

00:15:16   building a texture reflection map in real time,

00:15:19   and then it uses that to reflect on the object

00:15:22   that you put in the scene.

00:15:24   - Right, 'cause there was the,

00:15:25   I think it was in the State of the Union,

00:15:28   where the demo showed a silver--

00:15:30   - A silver globe.

00:15:31   - Right. - Yeah.

00:15:32   - And the camera is pointing down on it.

00:15:36   - Yeah.

00:15:37   - But the lighting is from above, so it's out of frame.

00:15:40   - Yes, there's two parts to environment texturing.

00:15:42   One is that it takes what it sees and creates the texture,

00:15:46   but of course, that would leave something

00:15:47   that has lots of holes in it.

00:15:48   - Right.

00:15:49   it has to fill it in with something.

00:15:51   Otherwise, it would look really odd as the reflection.

00:15:53   And so what we did is we actually went out

00:15:56   and captured something like 10,000 different spaces.

00:16:01   We trained a neural network to look at what is in a scene

00:16:05   and then hallucinate the rest of the,

00:16:09   of the, yeah, the rest of the reflection map

00:16:14   so that it's plausible.

00:16:17   So it's not perfect, but what happens is

00:16:18   that the reflections are generally a little more diffused.

00:16:21   It's not a perfect image.

00:16:22   So for most folks,

00:16:24   it just looks natural and it looks real.

00:16:26   >> It was uncanny once it's explained in the demo,

00:16:29   and it's like, "Oh my God, that stuff is all out of frame."

00:16:30   There's something reflected there.

00:16:33   >> It just makes a huge difference.

00:16:35   We've been doing everything possible to make it

00:16:38   incredibly easy for folks to make AR content that looks great.

00:16:42   >> Well, that render quality on ARKit too is amazing.

00:16:45   I mean, one of our big challenges with

00:16:47   the demo we did with Lego was to make sure we had a good enough establishing shot from

00:16:52   the camera of what the physical model was because once the augmented reality pieces

00:16:58   came in, the digital pieces came in, it was impossible on screen to tell what was different.

00:17:03   Which was real and which was augmented is impossible.

00:17:06   So we had to really establish that.

00:17:07   I literally, I was like right in the middle of the keynote, center stage, sort of back.

00:17:14   my question was that and I'm like standing up to see is there a real Lego house on that

00:17:18   table and I was like yeah and I was like oh because I couldn't see it from back here and

00:17:22   then I went to the hands-on area and I got to play with it and I still couldn't see.

00:17:28   That's amazing.

00:17:29   Right.

00:17:30   Yeah, it's really fun.

00:17:31   It's amazing considering that we just started shipping this this past fall and it's our

00:17:33   third major release and it's gotten so good.

00:17:37   The Lego demo, I don't know if everybody, you know, how many people here are in the

00:17:40   conference and got to play with it, but it's technically amazing.

00:17:44   It's not really a game that you would want to play.

00:17:48   It is a demo.

00:17:49   I could see how you could turn it into a game, but it's sort of like...

00:17:53   Well, when we engaged with the LEGO team and brought them in and showed them ARKit 2, and

00:17:59   they got very excited about what the possibility was, they had this idea for this play experience

00:18:07   so that you could go in and you could have a couple of kids,

00:18:09   and they could play together and it would start from

00:18:12   building a physical Lego model,

00:18:16   but they wanted to be able to recognize that model.

00:18:19   So that is one of the other things that we did in ARKit 2 was added

00:18:22   the ability to detect objects that you've trained on before.

00:18:27   So they built one path through it for the demo of the show,

00:18:31   but what they're going to do fully when they release it is,

00:18:34   it won't be just one path,

00:18:36   it'll have lots of different experiences,

00:18:39   and your friend could bring over their model,

00:18:41   and those could be combined in a scene,

00:18:42   and yeah, it's just gonna be tons of fun.

00:18:45   - The other thing I found when I was doing it myself,

00:18:48   with the Lego one in particular,

00:18:49   so I'm holding an iPad, and I'm like,

00:18:51   oh yeah, this is cool, and then it would be like,

00:18:54   I've gotta move the fire truck to put the fire out.

00:18:57   And I would wanna get into detail,

00:18:59   and I'd pinch the screen, and nothing would happen,

00:19:02   and I'd be like, oh, yeah, exactly.

00:19:05   (audience laughing)

00:19:07   And-- - You're done.

00:19:08   - Yeah, move with your feet, exactly.

00:19:10   - The Apple fellow who was there

00:19:12   to guide me through the demo said, "Everybody does that."

00:19:15   (audience laughing)

00:19:17   - Old habits.

00:19:18   - He was like, "You get used to it."

00:19:19   - You do, actually, and it becomes quite natural to do that,

00:19:24   and for certain kinds of things,

00:19:25   it's actually much more natural.

00:19:27   When you think about manipulating 3D,

00:19:29   having a sense of space, and particularly things

00:19:32   that are at a real-world scale,

00:19:34   it's really valuable to be able to move there

00:19:37   because you get much more a sense

00:19:39   of what the object is like in the real world.

00:19:41   - So my next question is about AR persistence.

00:19:46   - Yes.

00:19:47   - Explain this to me.

00:19:50   (audience laughing)

00:19:53   - It's when AR's trying really, really hard.

00:19:55   No, it's...

00:19:56   (audience laughing)

00:19:59   (audience applauding)

00:20:03   >> Thank you. So we had to make up names for this stuff.

00:20:08   So that's what we came up with,

00:20:09   our marketing folks helped us with that.

00:20:13   So the basic idea is that you want to be able to have

00:20:19   an AR experience and come back to it later and have it be

00:20:23   the same place and share it with

00:20:25   other people and maybe have multi-user experiences.

00:20:28   So we use a technique where we map

00:20:32   the environment and we create essentially a set of points

00:20:36   that allow us to understand that environment

00:20:39   and you're able to save it.

00:20:41   And then you can use that map in a number of different ways.

00:20:45   One would be to reload it on the same device

00:20:48   so you could come back.

00:20:48   So let's say that you had created an AR pin board

00:20:52   in your home or you had a game that you were playing

00:20:56   and you wanted to come back to it.

00:20:59   But you can also share it with other people.

00:21:01   And those can be asynchronous,

00:21:04   so they could come see it later.

00:21:05   You could leave a gift for somebody that's an AR gift

00:21:07   and they could find it, you know, say on the kitchen table.

00:21:10   Or they can be simultaneous where you share it in real time.

00:21:14   You don't have to go up to the cloud to do that.

00:21:16   You can share it peer to peer,

00:21:18   and that allows for multiple people

00:21:20   to see the same coordinate system.

00:21:23   - But it's, in terms of sharing,

00:21:27   it is something that you do like I can share with you,

00:21:30   but it wouldn't be something that I would leave here

00:21:33   and everybody who has the app.

00:21:34   - Well, you could, so you could in fact do that.

00:21:37   So somebody who had an installation

00:21:38   or they had something where they wanted

00:21:40   to create an experience in an app

00:21:42   where when you went there,

00:21:44   it would localize to that particular position

00:21:47   and give everybody the same experience.

00:21:49   Could be in a museum, could be,

00:21:51   so you could create installed experiences.

00:21:53   Could be in retail, could be in a museum,

00:21:55   could be in other applications.

00:21:57   So the idea is that it allows you to do,

00:22:02   make AR experiences that transcend one session.

00:22:06   - See now this is great,

00:22:07   'cause I've got a million dollar app idea.

00:22:10   All right, tell me if this is possible.

00:22:14   Oh, you're gonna tell all these folks

00:22:15   a million dollar app idea? - I'm gonna tell 'em.

00:22:17   - Okay.

00:22:18   Get your guns ready.

00:22:20   - Just keep it secret.

00:22:21   - When the App Store first came out,

00:22:26   there were a lot of fart apps that came out.

00:22:28   (audience laughing)

00:22:29   Now we're in the AR world.

00:22:31   So when you sit on this chair, you wanna,

00:22:33   oh, my app is called Leave a Turd.

00:22:35   Leave a Turd.

00:22:36   (audience laughing)

00:22:38   Free download.

00:22:40   You can go to a coffee shop and you can leave it,

00:22:43   and there'll be one--

00:22:44   - Pay for the different shapes of it.

00:22:45   - There you go.

00:22:46   See, you're thinking like me.

00:22:47   (audience laughing)

00:22:49   There's in-game purchase.

00:22:51   There's one default turd that everybody gets for free,

00:22:54   and everybody can see all of the turds.

00:22:57   But you can get, I can buy--

00:22:59   - Technology at its finest.

00:23:00   - I could buy like a Yankees turd,

00:23:02   or a Red Sox turd would be even better.

00:23:04   And I could leave a Red Sox turd.

00:23:06   - Bill and everybody in the App Store, thank you, right?

00:23:08   - Right. - Right now.

00:23:09   - I tell you, we get the MLB guys involved in this,

00:23:13   I'm telling you, it's a lot of money.

00:23:15   (laughing)

00:23:16   But you could, in theory, build something like that, like--

00:23:18   - Yeah, you could.

00:23:19   - Or like a store.

00:23:22   if you wanted to.

00:23:23   - Emphasis on you could.

00:23:27   Do you do freelancing work?

00:23:28   Are you busy?

00:23:32   - Not at all.

00:23:33   - All right.

00:23:34   But there's a privacy implication to this too though,

00:23:40   but if you wanted to, you can make an app,

00:23:42   like you said, like a family pinboard

00:23:44   or something like that, and it would be invitation only,

00:23:47   like I'm only gonna invite my--

00:23:48   - Yeah, I mean, so the interesting thing about these maps

00:23:51   is that they don't contain any RGB data.

00:23:55   So they're actually far less revealing than

00:23:57   a photo would be of that particular environment.

00:24:00   So we do just as apps have to have access to the camera for ARKit,

00:24:06   you would need to do them for the maps,

00:24:08   but you couldn't reconstruct an image.

00:24:11   You could get a little bit of the geometry of the scene,

00:24:13   but they're fairly sparse.

00:24:14   So there's not a lot of risk of privacy around that.

00:24:19   But even with that, it's not something we're really worried about.

00:24:26   >> All right. So I joke about FartApps.

00:24:29   But there was an argument,

00:24:31   and we've talked about this briefly yesterday,

00:24:33   but there was an argument when the App Store first came

00:24:35   out of people who were dismissive of what it's just so small,

00:24:39   and previous phones there were apps for other phone platforms.

00:24:44   In hindsight, nobody even really remembers.

00:24:49   And the App Store opens and developers had a couple of months

00:24:53   and they didn't know what the phone was good for

00:24:56   and they built some silly apps.

00:24:58   But there was, I think people in this room, not just us,

00:25:01   but I think everybody here was excited

00:25:03   and knew that this was gonna be a serious thing.

00:25:06   But I think with AR, I see some of that reaction

00:25:09   from the skeptical crowd, which is, what is this, for games?

00:25:13   - Right. - And it is for games.

00:25:15   And games, big business. - Big business.

00:25:18   - Yeah, it drives me nuts a little bit

00:25:20   because it shows a lack of vision, right?

00:25:22   'Cause to your point, we got this in 2008,

00:25:24   we got this even in 2009.

00:25:26   It's like, what are these apps?

00:25:27   What a waste of time.

00:25:29   And we knew we had something big.

00:25:31   And this is the same thing with AR.

00:25:32   This is a big deal.

00:25:34   This is really a big deal.

00:25:35   And we're already seeing some really cool stuff.

00:25:36   We're working with some developers.

00:25:38   We know some really cool stuff.

00:25:39   We can give you some examples of some cool things

00:25:41   that we can talk about.

00:25:42   Certainly there's ones we can't.

00:25:44   But you just need a teeny bit of vision here

00:25:46   to see this is a big deal.

00:25:48   - Yeah, we have to remember that ARKit

00:25:50   has been out for nine months, right?

00:25:53   So, you know, it's always interesting to me

00:25:56   to see folks saying, "Oh, it hasn't taken off yet.

00:25:59   It's been three months."

00:26:00   And as the folks in this room know,

00:26:02   it takes a little more time than that to make great apps.

00:26:06   And there've already been some fantastic apps made on ARKit.

00:26:10   So, you know, we had an event in March around education,

00:26:14   and there was one really fantastic app

00:26:17   where they built a virtual frog dissection

00:26:22   so that we weren't killing all those poor frogs

00:26:24   when we were in junior high anymore.

00:26:25   And in fact, it really worked.

00:26:27   It was fantastic.

00:26:29   And kids loved it, and it revealed so much more

00:26:33   than you would get actually in the direct dissection.

00:26:36   - Now you can bring a shared experience to that, right?

00:26:37   So the whole class.

00:26:38   - Now we can all dissect frogs together.

00:26:40   (audience laughing)

00:26:42   - How cool is that?

00:26:42   - But you think about that actually

00:26:44   with a shared experience with a teacher

00:26:45   who can now prepare a lesson and it can be shared.

00:26:49   And the teacher can be teaching you about biology

00:26:53   or mathematics or history and it's something

00:26:57   that everybody can have their perspective on

00:26:59   and it can be something that's a group experience.

00:27:01   And so you look at that, you look at in retail.

00:27:06   That was one of the early applications

00:27:07   that folks have been doing work,

00:27:08   whether it's what Amazon is doing or what Ikea is doing.

00:27:12   There's a whole range of folks

00:27:14   where they don't have, let's say, the real estate

00:27:17   to put all, to have all the inventory that they would want.

00:27:22   And now they're able to show that to folks.

00:27:25   And so you put it across every one of these,

00:27:28   and we're just seeing the beginning of it,

00:27:30   but it is really going to be quite--

00:27:35   - There was an example where somebody's,

00:27:37   there's a company that you guys are working with

00:27:39   that's using it in like an industrial setting where--

00:27:42   - Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:27:43   So with the same object detection that Lego's using

00:27:48   to recognize the little town there,

00:27:50   there's a big industrial company

00:27:53   that is building maintenance applications for large machines.

00:27:57   So you can recognize the machine,

00:27:59   you can be telling the maintenance personnel

00:28:03   where the thing is that needs to be replaced,

00:28:05   taking them through a procedure to do that.

00:28:07   And one of the things--

00:28:09   - Having X-ray vision in there.

00:28:10   - Yeah, X-ray vision into what's there.

00:28:13   - You can see things.

00:28:13   - You can actually see, oh, okay,

00:28:15   in order to do this particular maintenance operation,

00:28:17   I need to remove this and replace this

00:28:19   and take them literally through it step by step,

00:28:22   something that might be in 10,000 pages

00:28:25   of a printed manual and you're on a flat page,

00:28:27   you can't tell where everything is.

00:28:30   - Right, like right there on screen,

00:28:31   it could pop up and say, I've identified this part.

00:28:33   It's part number DL44.

00:28:37   - Exactly, and the number of mistakes that are made

00:28:40   when people have to do this and go back to manuals

00:28:43   is really high, actually NASA found that

00:28:45   in the space station, that an astronaut would go back

00:28:49   four or five times to re-verify

00:28:52   that they have the right operation.

00:28:53   - Fascinating, so is it like a real,

00:28:55   like a cognitive benefit to having--

00:28:57   - Yeah, it really reduces your cognitive load.

00:29:00   - So that leads me to my next topic,

00:29:04   which is, and something that I'm just lost on,

00:29:07   is that clearly there's a very significant intersection

00:29:12   between AR and maybe it's 'cause I'm a visual person.

00:29:16   I get what AR is.

00:29:18   I'm looking at reality and it's augmented.

00:29:21   - Yeah.

00:29:22   - Where that intersects with machine learning.

00:29:24   - Right, right.

00:29:25   So machine learning is really about teaching machines

00:29:30   to classify things, generally today,

00:29:33   is one of the primary things,

00:29:35   and understand from and be able to divide things up

00:29:40   in large data sets.

00:29:42   AR uses machine learning quite a lot.

00:29:45   So ARKit uses machine learning in that,

00:29:49   the environment texturing that we talked about.

00:29:52   It uses it in detecting planes and extending those out.

00:29:56   It uses it in being able to fundamentally understand

00:30:01   the environment in which it's operating.

00:30:05   But machine learning is also a separate thing

00:30:08   that you can use in addition to ARKit.

00:30:11   So with CreateML and CoreML,

00:30:16   we've provided a framework that allows you

00:30:19   to take what's coming from the camera.

00:30:21   So in an ARKit session, the camera's also passed through

00:30:24   to the application.

00:30:25   And you can take those frames

00:30:28   and you can create your own machine-learn classifiers

00:30:31   that might allow you to be specific to your app,

00:30:34   recognize a particular object in a scene

00:30:36   or recognize a particular scenario.

00:30:38   And so they're completely complementary technologies.

00:30:43   AR uses machine learning, ARKit does,

00:30:46   significantly all the way through it.

00:30:49   But it's something you can use to even augment ARKit.

00:30:54   Whoops, I don't have the address.

00:30:55   - All right, here's where I'm gonna try to get--

00:30:57   - What? - Here's where I'm gonna try

00:30:57   to get-- - Tough crowd.

00:30:58   - I'm gonna try to get Jaws in a little trouble here.

00:30:59   - Okay.

00:31:00   - Oh great, thank you.

00:31:01   - All right, I get to watch.

00:31:03   You guys have had a long stated explanation

00:31:06   when people ask about, hey, how come MacBooks

00:31:09   don't have touch screens?

00:31:10   Or how come the iMac doesn't have a touch screen?

00:31:13   Which is that reaching out like this

00:31:16   for a significant amount of time and poking at a screen

00:31:19   is actually ergonomically uncomfortable.

00:31:21   - Correct.

00:31:22   - We think the natural position when you're on a desktop

00:31:24   is with your hands on a flat surface,

00:31:25   and we think that when you're on a touch screen,

00:31:27   it's like this.

00:31:28   - Yep.

00:31:29   - I'm on board with that, I think most people,

00:31:31   probably a lot of people agree.

00:31:33   But if this is bad for a touchscreen Mac,

00:31:36   how is this good for AR?

00:31:38   Like, I thought he was gonna get you in trouble.

00:31:43   - But it's different, right?

00:31:46   I mean, this is not this.

00:31:48   It's using this as my viewer,

00:31:50   which is not very different than holding it in general.

00:31:52   - Well, have you guys investigated any other form factors?

00:31:55   (audience laughing)

00:31:58   - One of the things that's really cool

00:32:01   about what we've done with ARKit,

00:32:03   is hundreds and hundreds of millions of devices

00:32:08   that you have today in the form of iPhones and iPads work with AR.

00:32:13   That's pretty freaking cool.

00:32:15   >> It is very cool.

00:32:17   I can think of some other things though too.

00:32:21   >> You don't have to sell you on what's going to

00:32:23   happen some number of years from now.

00:32:26   >> All right.

00:32:29   All right.

00:32:30   >> Yeah.

00:32:31   >> One last. In a similar vein,

00:32:35   let me go back to my introduction card.

00:32:38   >> It's like you're dealing poker here.

00:32:40   >> I am. Your title is VP of AR/VR,

00:32:48   Engineering at Apple.

00:32:51   >> Explain that one.

00:32:56   >> It's right on the title.

00:32:57   >> Oh man, we got to change that title.

00:33:00   Where's VRKit?

00:33:03   >> The VR, it's AR/VR but the VR is silent.

00:33:08   >> I think I'll go with that answer.

00:33:14   Well, actually just all joking aside,

00:33:20   so we are providing framework support and a lot of

00:33:24   work with other folks who are building VR headsets.

00:33:28   So we've been doing a lot of work in the OS,

00:33:32   our Metal team have been doing a ton of

00:33:35   work to improve the performance of Metal.

00:33:37   We added the eGPU support.

00:33:40   So there's a lot of stuff that we're doing there

00:33:42   that is really to enable

00:33:45   higher performance graphics which can drive.

00:33:49   >> You remember that Star Wars demo?

00:33:50   >> Yeah. So we're doing tons of work in that area.

00:33:54   And it's a lot with partners.

00:33:57   - Yeah, there were a lot of cool demos

00:33:58   at the iMac Pro event.

00:34:02   And here we plug in an extra eGPU

00:34:04   and now look at how the--

00:34:06   - Yeah, if you came to, if you went to State of the Union,

00:34:09   you saw the performance that we're getting

00:34:11   with the eGPUs is really pretty much scaling linearly

00:34:16   for tons of applications.

00:34:17   The work the Metal team did is astounding

00:34:20   at how efficiently we're able to use those eGPUs

00:34:24   and it's actually, it's amazing for doing,

00:34:27   if you're doing content creation for ARs,

00:34:29   you might be using an Autodesk app

00:34:31   or something from the Foundry.

00:34:34   Having the ability to plug in an eGPU

00:34:37   that is extremely powerful to your MacBook Pro

00:34:41   is fantastic because it gives you the portability

00:34:46   and then also the ability to have performance

00:34:49   that's close to an iMac Pro for graphics at least.

00:34:53   - And then the last part about AR/VR,

00:34:55   really near and dear to my heart,

00:34:56   and it's why I'm so excited that Apple

00:34:59   is so fully on board with this,

00:35:03   because I think one of the things Apple

00:35:06   has always been historically unique,

00:35:10   I would just say uniquely in history of computing,

00:35:13   is that when a new interface or new paradigm comes along,

00:35:18   it's Apple that gets it right first, right?

00:35:21   The Mac wasn't the first graphical user interface.

00:35:23   There were other things.

00:35:24   The mouse was invented in 1968,

00:35:27   I mean, and there were other windowing systems,

00:35:28   but the Mac was the first one that was good, right?

00:35:31   And there were touch screens before the iPhone came out.

00:35:34   And they got all sorts of interactions wrong,

00:35:37   and the iPhone got it right.

00:35:38   It's, oh, it's all direct manipulation.

00:35:40   And AR/VR, it's like, I'm telling you this,

00:35:45   but even from my perspective, it's mind-boggling

00:35:48   how many human factors problems there are left to serve.

00:35:51   And the one that made me think about it

00:35:53   was in the March demo that you guys had.

00:35:56   And it was an HTC headset, and it was really interesting.

00:36:01   But there was one app where,

00:36:04   when you're in the VR world and you look down,

00:36:07   you don't have any legs.

00:36:09   And it was, it was weird.

00:36:12   And then there was another demo, and again,

00:36:15   and this is me, and you know this,

00:36:17   'cause you've seen me at these readings.

00:36:19   I'm not on script.

00:36:21   I was supposed to be playing music in this demo,

00:36:24   and instead I'm looking at my feet.

00:36:26   (audience laughing)

00:36:28   And then there was another demo where you looked down

00:36:31   and there were legs and feet,

00:36:33   and then I would move my feet and they didn't move.

00:36:36   They were just.

00:36:37   (audience laughing)

00:36:38   I was like, this is really,

00:36:41   I don't like it either way.

00:36:43   But there's like a, must be what?

00:36:45   100,000 little things like that

00:36:47   that you guys must be thinking about.

00:36:48   - Well, the beauty of AR is you don't have that problem.

00:36:50   - Right.

00:36:51   - Your legs still move.

00:36:53   (audience laughing)

00:36:56   - There are a lot of tough technical challenges, for sure,

00:37:03   in that space.

00:37:03   And we've been working really hard

00:37:08   to solve them in a way so that at each step,

00:37:14   we make those really hard things easy

00:37:16   for developers and for users.

00:37:18   And so, you know, you see that with the pace

00:37:23   that we've been on with ARKit 1 and 1.5 and 2.

00:37:27   We're taking those really hard problems

00:37:29   and we're making them easy.

00:37:30   And for us, it's really important.

00:37:33   Like there's a lot of stuff that we have, or in my team,

00:37:37   that we could just like throw out there.

00:37:39   but doing that would confuse developers,

00:37:43   make your lives a lot harder, would confuse users.

00:37:47   And so it's important to take the time to really,

00:37:50   really get them right before you make them.

00:37:52   - Well, and the new Measure app in IS12

00:37:55   is a great example of that.

00:37:56   It's a lot of fun.

00:37:58   - Yeah, there's a,

00:38:00   you talk about machine learning,

00:38:01   there's a lot of machine learning in that Measure app

00:38:04   to really try to make something

00:38:07   that seems like it should be easy,

00:38:09   but from a technical standpoint,

00:38:10   to do it right is actually quite hard.

00:38:12   - All right, moving on.

00:38:14   Let's talk about some of the other stuff

00:38:15   from the keynote yesterday.

00:38:16   I thought one of the most telling things was that

00:38:22   when iOS 12 was introduced and Craig came out,

00:38:27   the whole first segment of his thing

00:38:30   was about doubling down on performance.

00:38:35   the specific models of phones that he talked about

00:38:38   were the oldest ones, the iPhone 5S and iPhone 6,

00:38:42   I think was used as the benchmark.

00:38:44   We've got all these great results on our other devices too,

00:38:46   but we're really focused on this.

00:38:48   And reading between the lines, it's like,

00:38:53   I can't help but think that part of the emphasis on that,

00:38:57   both in putting the engineering behind it,

00:38:59   but also making it a big part of the marketing message,

00:39:02   is to counter this popular notion

00:39:05   that major iOS updates,

00:39:07   when you put them on your older phone,

00:39:10   makes the phone slower deliberately

00:39:12   because Apple wants you to go to the Apple Store

00:39:15   and fix it by buying a new iPhone.

00:39:17   - Which is about the craziest thinking in the world, right?

00:39:19   We're gonna give you a shitty experience

00:39:21   so you go buy our new product.

00:39:22   - Right. (audience laughing)

00:39:24   Right. (audience laughing)

00:39:27   (audience cheering)

00:39:30   >> But to your point,

00:39:34   and there's been so much that people

00:39:36   forgot about how great software updates are.

00:39:41   That was the first part of what Craig was reminding you.

00:39:43   First of all, is that we got a 95 percent

00:39:44   customer satisfaction with the HIO saliva.

00:39:46   It's great. We have delivered through the years

00:39:49   amazing features from the App Store to iMessage to,

00:39:53   you saw the whole list, I wanted to repeat it,

00:39:55   that software updates are super important.

00:39:58   Now what Craig talked about is a few things.

00:40:01   One is making everything faster and more responsive.

00:40:04   And you got to remember, we're supporting devices

00:40:06   that were introduced in 2013.

00:40:09   Devices that are more recently introduced,

00:40:11   iPhone Xs, are a lot faster than those,

00:40:13   just by the nature of how fast our chips have gotten.

00:40:16   We've got the fastest chips in the business.

00:40:17   I mean, our chips this year or last year

00:40:20   are faster than theirs this year.

00:40:21   - What about this year?

00:40:23   (laughing)

00:40:25   - So we wanted to remind you.

00:40:27   (audience laughing)

00:40:30   of how great that is.

00:40:31   And so what we wanted to also do

00:40:33   is pay some special attention to the fact that

00:40:35   some of these older devices under load is really what,

00:40:39   that was a big part of that, right?

00:40:40   It's like they test out of the labs just fine,

00:40:43   but you realize that some people

00:40:45   are heavier users than others, right?

00:40:47   They're using more things in the background.

00:40:49   They got more things loaded on the system.

00:40:51   It's those folks that had experienced

00:40:55   more of the slowdowns, if you will.

00:40:56   Craig was making a point of showing,

00:40:57   "Look, we did a lot of engineering and a lot of testing."

00:41:00   He talked about the stress rack to show that we're going

00:41:02   to double the performance for those people with iOS 12.

00:41:05   iOS 12 supports the same set of devices that iOS 11 did, again,

00:41:08   going all the way back to 2013,

00:41:11   introduced all the way back to the 5S.

00:41:13   It's going to be a really good update for those people.

00:41:16   >> Yeah. Actually, I mean, I'll just add a little bit around ARKit.

00:41:21   It would be much easier for us to have

00:41:25   ARKit only support iPhone 10s and newer,

00:41:29   because they are so much faster.

00:41:32   But we wanted to have a platform that would

00:41:37   have hundreds of millions of devices that could

00:41:39   support AR from the initial release.

00:41:42   So I can tell you that my team,

00:41:45   we have a lot of effort put in to

00:41:47   optimizing for devices that go back multiple years.

00:41:51   I know Craig's team does as well.

00:41:54   I've been in those meetings and there is,

00:41:56   it is so far from the truth that anybody would think that.

00:42:01   - If we only wanted you to buy new hardware,

00:42:03   we'd only have updates to support like 6% of our users.

00:42:06   Not 81.

00:42:07   (audience laughing)

00:42:10   - Well, the other crazy part of that theory

00:42:17   that Apple wants your phone to be slower

00:42:19   so you get a new phone, I agree with you.

00:42:22   Nobody would ever accuse a car maker of that.

00:42:24   If you bought brand X of an automobile

00:42:26   and it has a five year warranty

00:42:28   and five years and six months after you bought it,

00:42:30   it falls apart.

00:42:31   Nobody would go, well I'm gonna go buy another one

00:42:33   from the same company. - Exactly.

00:42:35   - Casey List isn't buying another BMW, you know?

00:42:38   (audience laughing and applauding)

00:42:42   But the flip side of it is,

00:42:47   I know engineers who work at Apple,

00:42:50   I think there's some in the audience right now.

00:42:53   I have never met anybody, and really WWDC attendees

00:42:57   in general, like the whole point of being an Apple developer

00:43:00   and writing for these platforms is that you care.

00:43:02   You care about getting a UI right.

00:43:05   You care about having an app that is smaller to download.

00:43:08   And imagine Jaws going into an engineer's office

00:43:12   and saying, okay, here's your job.

00:43:13   When iOS 12 comes out.

00:43:15   - Yeah, you would survive that.

00:43:16   (laughing)

00:43:18   Yeah, they would run me out of town.

00:43:19   You would not live the rest of that day.

00:43:22   (laughs)

00:43:24   Privacy.

00:43:26   That was another aspect of the whole message.

00:43:29   You guys have been on it though for years.

00:43:30   This isn't like a new--

00:43:31   - Way before it was popular.

00:43:33   (audience laughs)

00:43:34   - It's very true though,

00:43:35   and the message has been very consistent.

00:43:37   (audience applauds)

00:43:40   So there were two parts of it that really stood out to me.

00:43:46   The one was, or the privacy aspect,

00:43:49   The one was the new reciprocal sharing and photos.

00:43:54   So if I share some photos through iCloud photo sharing

00:43:59   to you, it only goes to you, and then you get the option

00:44:04   of also sharing back to me, and it does some--

00:44:07   - It does it through messages.

00:44:08   - Right, but it tries to be smart and guesses,

00:44:11   oh, it looks like these two guys were in

00:44:12   the California theater at the same time.

00:44:14   - All on device, yep.

00:44:15   - Right, all on device. - All on device.

00:44:17   and will suggest to me some of the goofy stuff

00:44:20   we were doing backstage or whatever pictures we had.

00:44:23   (audience laughing)

00:44:26   It goes unsaid that the sharing

00:44:29   with some of your competitors is not all on device.

00:44:33   - Yeah, no, that's a differentiator for us.

00:44:35   I mean, we're big for doing things on device.

00:44:37   We've got chips, as we talked about, that are super fast.

00:44:40   We have software teams that know how to do amazing things

00:44:43   without having to resort to the cloud doing heavy lifting.

00:44:47   We've got devices that are capable of doing

00:44:48   incredible amounts of heavy lifting.

00:44:50   >> Yeah. Then the other one,

00:44:53   and it really is near and dear to my heart because I make

00:44:57   my living on the web and

00:44:59   selling sponsorships and advertising and stuff,

00:45:02   and I've studiously stayed away from anything that

00:45:05   involves tracking and user profiles and stuff like that.

00:45:10   Whereas some other sites on the web haven't.

00:45:14   I thought that the new feature that was introduced in

00:45:17   Safari where Craig pointed out,

00:45:20   "Hey, they've got these buttons where you click this button and

00:45:22   it'll take you to Twitter or take you to LinkedIn or whatever."

00:45:26   That all of these little buttons involve

00:45:28   all this JavaScript that tracks

00:45:30   you and creates these digital fingerprints.

00:45:32   To have a web browser that built in without any kind of

00:45:35   extension or something like that is going to allow you to block that.

00:45:40   >> Yeah.

00:45:40   >> Yeah.

00:45:41   >> We still believe in the ad model and for a website to be able

00:45:52   to do the ads but it's the cross site tracking.

00:45:56   >> Right.

00:45:56   >> That's a problem. Especially because people don't know.

00:45:58   >> Right.

00:45:58   >> People don't know that's why that comment field is there.

00:46:00   It's there so that they can see you've been there,

00:46:03   and then you went there, and then you went there,

00:46:04   so they build a profile on you.

00:46:06   Again, we allow that to happen if the user says, "Allow."

00:46:10   - Right, it's now just trying to make it

00:46:11   so the user actually has a role

00:46:13   in deciding what happens with their information.

00:46:15   - Well I think the thing that,

00:46:16   so typical people, 99% of people out there

00:46:19   have no idea how it's happening.

00:46:20   - Exactly.

00:46:21   - But they know it's wrong.

00:46:22   They know it's wrong when they searched

00:46:23   for whatever brand of sneakers,

00:46:26   and then for the next seven days,

00:46:28   everywhere they go on the web,

00:46:29   no matter, totally different topic,

00:46:32   totally different website,

00:46:32   there's an ad for the thing they were just searching for.

00:46:35   - Yeah.

00:46:35   - They just know that that's weird.

00:46:36   - Yeah, no, these data companies end up building profiles

00:46:38   and having your web browsing history,

00:46:40   which I don't think most people here

00:46:42   are probably comfortable with.

00:46:44   Group FaceTime, finally, right?

00:46:48   (audience cheers and applauds)

00:46:52   But pretty cool, because people have been clamoring for it,

00:46:54   for, I don't know if you know this, but for a while.

00:46:57   - I've heard that.

00:46:58   (audience laughs)

00:47:00   - And-- - It's a group of people.

00:47:01   - And it's pretty cool, though, that it went from,

00:47:03   well, you can FaceTime between two people,

00:47:05   and now you can FaceTime with up to 32 people.

00:47:08   >> Yeah. Like, wow.

00:47:10   Like, explain to me how it's just not all crosstalk and-

00:47:16   >> Well, that's what we tried to show in the demo, right?

00:47:18   That it's smart enough to,

00:47:20   we don't want 32 people.

00:47:22   Miss Max, you're going up on the screen at one time.

00:47:26   It's a roster down below.

00:47:27   The people who are active go in the bigger images.

00:47:29   You get bigger as you speak, right?

00:47:32   So it senses that,

00:47:33   and then people on the roster,

00:47:34   if they begin to speak,

00:47:35   they go and replace somebody up top.

00:47:37   So it's a nice system.

00:47:38   - If you have 32 people in a meeting,

00:47:41   you're not all trying to talk, well maybe you are,

00:47:43   but most of the time you're not all trying to jump in

00:47:47   and talk at a--

00:47:48   - Those are marketing meetings.

00:47:50   - In engineering.

00:47:50   So you might have two or three people who are interacting

00:47:54   and other folks are watching or it could be somebody

00:47:57   presenting to a larger group.

00:47:58   And so there are those natural turn-taking things

00:48:02   that happen with people.

00:48:03   - And here's a question I know the answer to,

00:48:06   but I think it's worth bringing up,

00:48:08   is it's still end-to-end encrypted.

00:48:10   >> Absolutely.

00:48:11   >> Right. So even with 32 people in the chat,

00:48:15   everything going up and back is end-to-end encrypted,

00:48:18   and only people who have access to

00:48:20   the audio and video are the 32 participants.

00:48:21   >> That's right.

00:48:22   >> That's fantastic.

00:48:25   So do you guys use it internally?

00:48:33   Like, do you trust Group FaceTime enough that you guys,

00:48:36   you know, yeah?

00:48:37   - Sure, yeah, absolutely.

00:48:39   It is in an encrypt.

00:48:40   - Well, I remember when iMessage first came out,

00:48:43   or when it first came to the Mac, I think,

00:48:49   'cause it was iOS only when it first debuted.

00:48:52   And when it came to the Mac,

00:48:54   I remember talking to someone at Apple,

00:48:56   but they were like, you know,

00:48:57   we use this internally all the time, and I'm, you know.

00:48:59   - Sure.

00:49:00   - And I, you know, I don't know if,

00:49:02   I think you guys know Apple tends to be a little secretive.

00:49:05   >> I can neither confirm nor deny.

00:49:08   >> But you guys trusted and use it for your own convenience.

00:49:11   >> Absolutely.

00:49:12   >> Right. All right.

00:49:15   Another big, I'm going to call these the attention

00:49:17   related features of iOS 12.

00:49:21   The do not disturb extensions or improvements.

00:49:26   >> Using it right now by the way.

00:49:29   >> You're on the Beta, right?

00:49:31   >> Of course.

00:49:32   >> Of course. Are you?

00:49:33   >> Yes.

00:49:34   >> Wow. Would you be disappointed?

00:49:36   >> I would be a little bit, but it's still a little.

00:49:39   >> Literally, it integrated my calendar,

00:49:41   so I pulled up Control Center,

00:49:42   I said do not disturb until I'm done with this event.

00:49:44   >> All right. Let's do a quick poll.

00:49:45   How many people in the audience have installed

00:49:47   iOS 12 on their main iPhone?

00:49:50   This is our crowd.

00:49:54   >> It's pretty solid developer release.

00:49:57   >> It actually does seem, I don't have it on my main phone yet,

00:49:59   but it does seem pretty good.

00:50:01   So there's do not disturb improvements where you can set it.

00:50:07   I'm going to forget some of them.

00:50:08   >> You can set Geofence,

00:50:11   so you can try to leave this location.

00:50:12   You can set it for amount of time and say,

00:50:13   don't bother me for an hour.

00:50:15   You can say, well, it's integrated to the calendar,

00:50:17   so it can say, while I'm in this event.

00:50:19   Of course, you can still toggle the whole thing on and

00:50:21   off and you have now a new bedtime one as well.

00:50:23   >> Right. The group notifications.

00:50:26   >> Yeah. The ability to instantly tune the notifications as well.

00:50:30   - Right, which I think is really interesting.

00:50:34   And we were talking yesterday about

00:50:37   sometimes you'll sign up for a news site

00:50:38   or news app or something,

00:50:40   and you'll realize you're getting,

00:50:43   they're telling you about things that I don't care about.

00:50:45   Why are you sending me a notification

00:50:46   for there's a new flavor of Crystal Pepsi

00:50:49   or something like that?

00:50:50   (audience laughing)

00:50:51   But one extra annoying notification

00:50:55   never quite seems like it's enough to justify

00:50:59   unlocking the phone, going into settings,

00:51:01   finding the panel and the settings where notifications are,

00:51:04   scrolling down the list to the app, and then adjusting.

00:51:06   It never seems, it's like, ah, I'll do it next.

00:51:09   - We've all been there.

00:51:10   - But if you could just poke at the notification

00:51:12   and just say, yeah, no worries.

00:51:14   - Yeah, or deliver quietly,

00:51:15   which is what I've chosen on a bunch of those.

00:51:17   I still wanna see 'em when I go to notifications center.

00:51:19   I just don't need them to buzz my wrist or buzz my pocket.

00:51:21   - Right, right, so the quietly feature is,

00:51:26   it's the difference between the notifications

00:51:30   on your lock screen and notification center.

00:51:32   - Correct.

00:51:32   - I think that there's been some confusion

00:51:35   over why the lock screen is not exactly the same

00:51:39   as notification center, and I think this,

00:51:41   it's the fact that it buzzes you.

00:51:43   And then the last part is the

00:51:55   reminders of how much you're using X, Y, and Z,

00:52:00   and the weekly reports that you can get about it,

00:52:02   and the app limits that you can set.

00:52:04   And for whatever reason, that seems to have popped up

00:52:08   in just the world at large,

00:52:11   even outside the Apple universe,

00:52:12   as a just sort of, I don't know if you wanna call it,

00:52:16   mindfulness, just self-awareness

00:52:19   of how much time you're spending on the phones.

00:52:21   Is it a coincidence that it's coming out this year,

00:52:23   or is this something you guys--

00:52:24   Well, for one, we've been working on stuff like this since 2008,

00:52:27   when the App Store came out and we've continually added to it,

00:52:30   including Do Not Disturb and having

00:52:31   Do Not Disturb while driving by the way, which is a great feature.

00:52:34   AAA is very happy with us on that one.

00:52:37   They really are. So this specific set of features,

00:52:42   which is pretty comprehensive,

00:52:43   the team has been working on this for over a year.

00:52:46   This is not like a reaction to

00:52:47   something happening in the last few months.

00:52:49   This is something that's been worked on for a long time.

00:52:52   It is comprehensive, but also

00:52:54   the same time when you go out and look at these things,

00:52:56   when Phil loves to say, "Hey,

00:52:57   we have over a billion customers," and there's

00:52:59   like a billion different opinions on how to do this.

00:53:02   But what we knew how to be

00:53:04   the right basis for this is the information.

00:53:07   >> Right.

00:53:07   >> Right. Letting people know how much they're

00:53:10   using the different apps,

00:53:13   different categories of apps,

00:53:15   how many notifications you're getting,

00:53:17   where those notifications are coming from,

00:53:19   which ties into that notification tuning.

00:53:21   It was one of those ones where I said, "God,

00:53:23   These guys send me a lot of notifications

00:53:24   and the next time they came up,

00:53:25   I sent them to deliver quietly.

00:53:28   Even how much you pick up the device.

00:53:31   - Right, that's the one I'm afraid to find out.

00:53:33   (audience laughing)

00:53:35   - It's really, really interesting to see.

00:53:37   And I think for 95% of people, that's it.

00:53:42   They're just gonna wanna see this information.

00:53:44   Somebody told me the other day,

00:53:45   it's kinda like calorie counting.

00:53:46   If you count calories, you're probably more likely

00:53:49   to not consume too many.

00:53:50   And that's how this is.

00:53:51   You give people the information,

00:53:52   I think it helps them understand, okay,

00:53:53   am I playing too much games, am I on Instagram,

00:53:55   too much, whatever it is, right?

00:53:57   And they can help balance that.

00:53:58   For people that are like the, hey,

00:54:00   stop me before I kill again, you know.

00:54:02   (audience laughing)

00:54:04   That's where they can put a control on, right?

00:54:07   They can put an allowance on to say, hey,

00:54:09   remind me when I hit my limit

00:54:10   that I wanted to impose upon myself.

00:54:12   And then there's the whole kid aspect,

00:54:14   which is, you know, remember,

00:54:15   this is the first part, it's just for everybody, right?

00:54:17   It's for everybody.

00:54:18   And then there's the kid aspect that does the same thing.

00:54:19   The parents can see how are the kids

00:54:21   actually using their devices.

00:54:23   'Cause they don't know how they're using their own device,

00:54:24   let alone the kids.

00:54:25   Now for the first time they can see

00:54:26   and they can have a conversation about it.

00:54:28   And again, I think for 95% of parents,

00:54:30   that's gonna be where it's gonna go.

00:54:32   And then again, when there is an issue,

00:54:34   they have the ability to put a control in,

00:54:36   put in allowance, and then a kid even has the ability

00:54:38   to say, "Hey look, I finished my homework,

00:54:39   "give me some more time."

00:54:40   So we built that in.

00:54:41   So it's really cool.

00:54:42   Obviously we're gonna keep working on this stuff,

00:54:43   but we're pretty happy with where it's at.

00:54:45   (audience applauding)

00:54:48   A big applause line in the keynote,

00:54:57   not quite as big as dark mode but maybe second,

00:55:01   was the announcement that CarPlay is

00:55:05   expanding to allow third-party navigation apps.

00:55:09   I think part of the applause was based on just that,

00:55:17   that's a feature people wanted,

00:55:18   but I also think part of it was that

00:55:21   a lot of people might have assumed that

00:55:22   that was not going to happen.

00:55:25   That Apple Maps is the map system for CarPlay

00:55:29   and that's it because that's what companies do.

00:55:32   They promote their own service.

00:55:36   - CarPlay isn't about trying to just lock in our stuff.

00:55:40   We've had this on our list for a while.

00:55:42   As you know, we've had a lot of things on our list for a while.

00:55:44   It takes time to get to them.

00:55:46   So we've been talking to the folks at Waze

00:55:49   and all that for a long time.

00:55:50   There's no doubt there's a bunch of people

00:55:52   who want to use that and we wanted to give it to them.

00:55:53   CarPlay is awesome.

00:55:54   CarPlay, if you've read the news,

00:55:55   I mean it's all over the place.

00:55:57   I mean it's in millions of cars now,

00:55:59   so it's getting pervasive.

00:56:01   - Has it been frustrating for you guys?

00:56:04   Because a lot of the stuff you guys do,

00:56:05   I mean famously Apple's thing is we do the whole kit

00:56:09   and that lets us do,

00:56:11   the AR story is all about where we know the camera,

00:56:14   we know the GPU.

00:56:15   We've actually worked with the GPU team

00:56:17   to get the GPUs that we need to do this.

00:56:20   But then with something like CarPlay,

00:56:23   you can't do it all yourself, 'cause--

00:56:26   - Well, AR, we can't do it ourselves.

00:56:27   We're building AR kits so that you guys

00:56:30   can go create this amazing stuff.

00:56:31   We didn't go do a bunch of first-party apps.

00:56:34   We did a game, which is pretty cool, as sample code.

00:56:37   - Well, I'm just guessing that maybe the rollout

00:56:39   of a lot of car companies to integrate CarPlay

00:56:42   across their lines maybe didn't happen as fast

00:56:44   as you'd hoped it did.

00:56:46   - Well, car guys move at a slightly different pace.

00:56:48   - Yeah, let me take.

00:56:49   Maybe you guys could build your own car.

00:56:53   (audience laughing)

00:56:56   Put it on the list.

00:57:01   All right.

00:57:11   - I can't wait to see the next car.

00:57:14   - Related notes, here's a question I've been dying to ask.

00:57:17   So in relation to, Apple's at its best when it's a platform,

00:57:22   and the platform on iOS, in the same way that now

00:57:27   you could use Waze instead of Apple Maps and CarPlay,

00:57:29   you've long been able to, thanks to the App Store,

00:57:32   you could take Apple Mail out of your dock on your phone

00:57:35   and put the Gmail app in, or,

00:57:37   there's a bunch of great email apps in the App Store.

00:57:41   or you could take Safari out and put Firefox in your dock.

00:57:46   But the one thing that iOS doesn't have that the Mac has is a way to say,

00:57:53   "Make my default e-mail client some other app,"

00:57:56   or "Make my default browser another app."

00:58:00   >> Yeah, there's always a tension there as to, again,

00:58:03   we want to offer a very,

00:58:04   very integrated experience, you know that.

00:58:07   Sometimes that's easier said than done to do what you're asking,

00:58:11   right, to replace those and then find out that the experience breaks.

00:58:14   So remember, we've got over a billion customers.

00:58:17   They expect an easy to use device.

00:58:19   They expect an experience that just works.

00:58:21   So we're working hard to offer a very integrated experience.

00:58:25   >> So that's not in iOS 12?

00:58:28   >> No.

00:58:29   >> Next card.

00:58:34   - That's correct.

00:58:36   (audience laughing)

00:58:39   There was a joker last year up in the balcony,

00:58:42   I hope he's not here again,

00:58:44   who shouted out at one point,

00:58:45   as we were getting to this point in the show

00:58:47   where we were wrapping up,

00:58:49   he just shouted out, "When is Siri gonna get good?"

00:58:52   And it was like, "What are you, what?"

00:58:53   Nobody's here to listen to you.

00:58:55   - He's still here.

00:58:57   - Oh, God.

00:58:58   We gotta find this guy's name,

00:58:59   he doesn't get a ticket next year.

00:59:01   (audience laughing)

00:59:03   - Anserino, wasn't it?

00:59:05   (audience laughing)

00:59:08   But the Siri announcements yesterday sound great,

00:59:14   and a lot of it is, okay, for the most part up until now,

00:59:17   Siri has been, here's a list of things

00:59:19   that we, Apple, have made Siri be able to do.

00:59:24   And with the Siri shortcuts,

00:59:27   and being able to assign your own,

00:59:29   The tile thing with I lost my,

00:59:33   if you're always losing your key,

00:59:34   I lost my keys and then it beeps your tile or whatever.

00:59:37   - Any app now can handle it.

00:59:39   - All right, that seems like a huge step forward

00:59:41   and sort of a delivery on the promise of Siri

00:59:44   that it would be a very personal technology.

00:59:47   (audience applauding)

00:59:50   - Absolutely, I mean, you know,

00:59:53   people sometimes lose sight of the fact that

00:59:55   Siri's got over 500 million active users.

00:59:59   I mean, it's far and away the most popular personal system.

01:00:02   We talked about it, it's 10 billion requests every month.

01:00:05   People are using it a ton.

01:00:06   And certainly, again, there's things we wanna do

01:00:08   to make the experience even better.

01:00:09   This was a big one.

01:00:10   How do you have an app integration?

01:00:12   And how do you do it in a way that's not just this,

01:00:15   you know, we've had domain integration with SiriKit,

01:00:18   but how to do it in a way that's just not a ton of things

01:00:20   that people aren't gonna use, you know,

01:00:22   that are prescriptive and, you know,

01:00:24   it's like, so how do you have it so developers can figure out

01:00:26   what are the meaningful things in our apps

01:00:28   to allow it to be assigned,

01:00:29   you know, and a customer to assign that

01:00:31   and give it their phrase,

01:00:32   and we think it's gonna be a pretty good feature.

01:00:34   - All right, last segment, macOS.

01:00:38   You're in dear to my heart, my favorite platform.

01:00:40   macOS Mojave.

01:00:44   And I know you guys love all of your children equally.

01:00:47   (laughing)

01:00:48   I think that's what Phil told me the one time.

01:00:51   macOS Mojave, how come the Mac get,

01:00:54   now, the last few years, the Mac gets a name,

01:00:57   Mac OS gets a name and iOS just gets a number.

01:01:00   What, I don't understand that.

01:01:02   - Wow.

01:01:03   (audience laughing)

01:01:06   - Why is that, Jeff?

01:01:09   - Do you not like numbers?

01:01:11   - I find that now that the numbers are getting so big,

01:01:13   I'm losing track of them.

01:01:14   - All right, after 11 comes 12.

01:01:17   (audience laughing)

01:01:26   >> Do I have to keep going?

01:01:27   >> The features that stuck out to me,

01:01:36   the Finder got a lot of love.

01:01:39   >> Desktop and Finder.

01:01:41   >> Yeah. Well, they're related but yeah.

01:01:45   >> Similar but different.

01:01:45   >> Right. The Finder,

01:01:49   integrating the thing on the right now,

01:01:51   I forget what it's called, but it's like the new get info panel,

01:01:54   but it's integrated right in the window

01:01:56   and has all of this metadata

01:01:58   and the action buttons at the bottom

01:02:01   where you can customize them with scripts

01:02:03   and automator actions and stuff like that.

01:02:05   If there was a betting game on what technologies

01:02:08   were gonna get mentioned in the keynote,

01:02:10   I would have lost a lot of money betting against automator.

01:02:13   But I love it, I love it, but it just often,

01:02:16   the automation stuff often doesn't get a lot of love

01:02:18   in a keynote and I thought that was great.

01:02:21   - Well, and Siri Shortcuts is its own form of automator.

01:02:23   - Right, yeah.

01:02:24   I thought the new screenshot features were--

01:02:28   - Super cool.

01:02:29   - Super cool, and almost like, I went from,

01:02:32   there was one of those features where I went from,

01:02:34   these are super cool, this is gonna,

01:02:36   all these people are gonna be amazed at these things

01:02:37   that you could do if you knew the magic six finger,

01:02:41   then hit space incantation.

01:02:42   And now it's all just obvious, it's like,

01:02:45   oh my god, why didn't you guys think of that before?

01:02:48   - It was on the list.

01:02:49   - It's on the list.

01:02:50   (laughing)

01:02:52   - And you like dark mode?

01:02:56   - Dark mode is next on the list.

01:02:59   - The biggest applause line in the keynote by far.

01:03:02   And we were talking backstage,

01:03:03   pro users have been, yeah, we've had dark mode for a decade.

01:03:08   All of our apps have been dark mode.

01:03:11   So yeah, it's fantastic, actually.

01:03:14   And for folks who spent a lot of time

01:03:17   staring at their screen in dark rooms,

01:03:20   like developers, it's really great to have Dark Mode.

01:03:25   - That was that part of the inspiration for the line we used

01:03:28   which was inspired by Prose but designed for everyone

01:03:31   because it was inspired by Prose.

01:03:32   Prose want their content to pop,

01:03:34   they want everything else to recede,

01:03:35   yet for the rest of us, and trust me, I'm no pro,

01:03:38   it's really cool, right?

01:03:40   And I'm running Dark Mode just 'cause it's cool.

01:03:42   - Right.

01:03:43   And then my favorite feature,

01:03:46   my single favorite announcement in the whole keynote

01:03:49   favicons in browsers.

01:03:51   - I knew you were going.

01:03:53   (audience cheering)

01:03:56   I believe you said it was the only reason

01:03:59   people were using competitive browsers other than Safari.

01:04:03   - This is true and it was a real eye-opener to me.

01:04:05   I started writing about it and it's often funny to me

01:04:08   what I'll write about or mention in a podcast

01:04:11   that gets my email like whoa, what happened?

01:04:15   Did the counter in mail get reset?

01:04:18   I just got like a thousand emails,

01:04:21   and the favicon thing was tremendous,

01:04:24   and I just kept writing back to people,

01:04:26   and they're like, "Yeah, it's the only reason

01:04:26   "I used Chrome."

01:04:29   I know you won't say it, but I'll say it.

01:04:31   (audience laughing)

01:04:33   - I've adopted the Craig pronunciation of favicon.

01:04:36   - Right, so we need another poll.

01:04:40   Is it favicon or favicon?

01:04:42   We'll do an applause.

01:04:43   - No, no, favicon.

01:04:45   - Favicon. - Right.

01:04:45   (audience applauding)

01:04:47   (audience cheering)

01:04:50   - Favicon?

01:04:51   I don't know why.

01:04:53   But I pronounce everything wrong, so.

01:04:54   (laughing)

01:04:56   It probably is Favicon.

01:04:58   But that was cool.

01:04:59   And that's in iOS too.

01:05:00   It was part of the Mac segment of the keynote.

01:05:04   But that's now an option in iOS.

01:05:05   - Right, right.

01:05:06   - Well, I love that.

01:05:08   (audience laughing)

01:05:11   The Mac App Store.

01:05:15   >> You know, it

01:05:25   more or less got what the iOS App Store got last year.

01:05:28   >> Yeah. We put the focus last year on iOS App Store.

01:05:30   It's turned out pretty well. You saw our numbers.

01:05:32   I mean, the amount of people reading today tab is blow away.

01:05:35   You saw we're getting 500 million users a week,

01:05:39   which is, just think about that.

01:05:41   Five million users are going to the App Store every week.

01:05:43   So this year, it's like-

01:05:44   >> You can't count that.

01:05:45   >> Yeah. He said that, not me.

01:05:49   This year, it's putting the attention on the Mac App Store,

01:05:52   and I think it's really nice redesign.

01:05:54   >> Well, and one of the things my friend

01:05:55   Koi Vin wrote a blog post a week or two ago,

01:05:57   just pointing out how many custom illustrations

01:06:03   are clearly being commissioned by

01:06:05   the App Store teams to illustrate the articles that they're doing,

01:06:09   and that maybe you don't think about it,

01:06:11   him saying to his readers,

01:06:13   maybe you don't think about it,

01:06:14   but most places would just use clip art.

01:06:16   And being an illustrator has gotten hard,

01:06:19   and the print industry,

01:06:21   a lot of sites that previously commissioned

01:06:26   a lot of artwork don't have the money for it anymore.

01:06:28   Crazy, it's mind-boggling.

01:06:32   Remember a couple years ago, the Chicago Sun-Times

01:06:34   fired all of their staff photographers

01:06:36   and just gave the reporters,

01:06:38   just said, "Use your phone."

01:06:41   - I think they said iPhone.

01:06:43   - Yeah.

01:06:43   (audience laughing)

01:06:46   But there's a difference between a reporter,

01:06:49   even with a great camera phone, like an iPhone,

01:06:53   is still not a professional photographer,

01:06:58   in the same way that a professional photographer,

01:07:01   given a great word processor, is not a reporter, right?

01:07:04   It's just crazy.

01:07:06   But the App Store, it really is,

01:07:07   and it's a typical Apple way,

01:07:11   where there's not like bylines

01:07:14   and people aren't getting credit.

01:07:16   It's just the App Store is publishing this.

01:07:18   But there's fresh editorial content

01:07:21   with illustrations and photographs and movie animations.

01:07:24   - Serious editorial team that works.

01:07:26   They do a great job and that's why people are coming back

01:07:28   and reading that Today tab every time.

01:07:30   But at the same time, we didn't want to just take

01:07:31   the Mac App Store and say it's a clone of the iOS

01:07:33   or it wouldn't make sense.

01:07:34   We needed a great Mac App Store,

01:07:37   a Discover tab instead of a Today tab.

01:07:39   It's a different experience designed before a Mac user.

01:07:41   >> Well, and the other thing too,

01:07:43   and I thought it was a really interesting announcement,

01:07:45   was when there was announcement of companies that

01:07:47   are fully supporting the Mac App Store.

01:07:52   It was Adobe with the Creative Cloud,

01:07:55   which is Adobe's main pro tool subscription thing.

01:08:01   I mean, it's a big part of Adobe.

01:08:02   I mean, it's not like a little side project.

01:08:04   This is a big deal. Microsoft Office 365.

01:08:08   the probably the first thing people think of

01:08:10   when they think of what apps do you use for Microsoft.

01:08:13   Big companies. Then the next two,

01:08:17   I just loved the,

01:08:19   here's two of our biggest app partners,

01:08:22   and then bare bones software and panic with Coda.

01:08:32   >> They got pretty good applause in the developer.

01:08:37   >> But that was one of my all-time favorite slides in WWDC history.

01:08:42   Adobe, Microsoft, bare bones,

01:08:44   where I used to work and panic.

01:08:46   It's like what a great set of four apps.

01:08:49   But part of the backstory with including bare bones and panic,

01:08:53   is at least in the developer community,

01:08:55   people know that BbEdit was in the App Store and then it wasn't,

01:09:01   and Coda was in the App Store and then it wasn't.

01:09:04   And it wasn't angry or mean-spirited or acrimonious,

01:09:09   it was running into limits with sandboxing,

01:09:14   to make a long story short,

01:09:16   that were incompatible with what these serious pro apps

01:09:20   wanted to be able to do with the computer.

01:09:22   And the backstory behind this is that it's not just

01:09:25   that the Mac App Store has gotten a visual refresh,

01:09:27   it's that people at Apple have spent a lot of time recently

01:09:31   talking to Mac developers and saying,

01:09:33   how do we make the Mac App Store and sandboxing work for you?

01:09:37   All we want to do is protect users data.

01:09:39   You guys do too, right?

01:09:41   >> Right.

01:09:42   >> It's not just a visual refresh.

01:09:44   It's a lot of tech systems.

01:09:45   >> Absolutely. We're glad to have these guys back by the way.

01:09:46   >> Yeah. Well, it was really great.

01:09:50   >> Last card.

01:09:54   >> Oh, the infamous last card.

01:09:56   >> All right.

01:09:56   >> UI kit on the Mac.

01:09:59   >> Yeah.

01:10:01   An unusual announcement, Apple doesn't often announce things a year in advance,

01:10:09   but I kind of get why you did it because you're eating your own cooking by

01:10:17   using this to make at least four of the apps that are shipping on Mojave.

01:10:24   Let me see if I can remember them.

01:10:26   Stocks, news, home.

01:10:30   >> Voice memo.

01:10:31   >> Voice memo.

01:10:35   >> Voice memo.

01:10:36   >> Which I think is the way to do it.

01:10:40   I think, not to get mean,

01:10:44   but I think there have been times in the past where there have

01:10:46   been APIs where I talked to my developer friends,

01:10:48   and maybe a couple of years ago,

01:10:50   Core Data and iCloud was a pain point,

01:10:55   and it turned out like Apple stuff wasn't

01:10:57   really using the same stuff.

01:11:00   It's like when Apple uses the stuff and then they're like,

01:11:02   we've polished it to the point where now we can share it with you,

01:11:05   it seems like they're better APIs.

01:11:08   >> Yeah. There's no doubt this is eating our own dog food.

01:11:10   >> Right.

01:11:10   >> We do want to get the APIs right because as you know,

01:11:12   if you change them later, things break.

01:11:15   Once you create APIs, you're wet to them.

01:11:18   I mean, it's a very long commitment around these APIs,

01:11:21   so we want to get it right,

01:11:22   and so we're going to try to get this one right.

01:11:25   Because if we do it right, it's going to be a big deal

01:11:26   for bringing software over to the Mac.

01:11:28   - So how come this system doesn't have a name?

01:11:31   (audience laughing)

01:11:34   - It was called Sneak Peek.

01:11:37   (audience laughing)

01:11:40   - And here's where I ran into it today,

01:11:42   because I linked to an article about it.

01:11:44   Lauren Good at Wired had an interview with Craig,

01:11:48   and got really not much detail.

01:11:51   (audience laughs)

01:11:53   - Way to go, Craig.

01:11:54   - But in my system, when I post it during Fireball,

01:12:00   I tag articles, and I didn't know what to tag it with,

01:12:02   'cause I don't know what to call it.

01:12:03   - Sneak.

01:12:04   (audience laughs)

01:12:12   So Craig emphasized on stage vehemently

01:12:17   that this is not a replacement for AppKit.

01:12:21   This is a new thing.

01:12:23   We have unifying these underlying layers

01:12:26   between the systems and it's a new thing.

01:12:29   - That's bringing over key frameworks to enable this.

01:12:32   - But there's a lot of people out there,

01:12:34   it doesn't matter what you say,

01:12:35   they think that AppKit's going away.

01:12:37   - You do not see the letters that were about 65 feet tall.

01:12:41   - But it's like with any conspiracy theory though,

01:12:44   the more dispositive the evidence is,

01:12:47   they're like, well that's, of course they're going to say.

01:12:49   - Next year we'll get a bigger screen,

01:12:50   but you get 85 foot letters.

01:12:52   - Right.

01:12:53   It occurs to me, I mean, I'd see if you agree,

01:12:58   but I don't think, from what I've seen so far,

01:13:02   I don't think that this is a replacement for AppKit,

01:13:05   and not meaning AppKit's going, I know it's staying,

01:13:09   But even for most Mac developers,

01:13:12   I think most Mac apps as we know them,

01:13:15   we're still better served in AppKit,

01:13:17   but that there's certain apps that

01:13:19   just weren't getting written in the first place.

01:13:22   >> Just like there's web apps,

01:13:24   there's WebKit apps, you know,

01:13:25   that are today and there's Metal apps.

01:13:26   There's lots of things that are designed to

01:13:28   go around different places and there's going to be

01:13:30   Mac applications that are

01:13:33   going to use all the traditional APIs that they have.

01:13:36   But there's a lot of apps in iOS.

01:13:39   As Craig said, there's millions of them.

01:13:41   And not all of them are gonna be great Mac apps,

01:13:43   but there's gonna be a lot of them

01:13:44   that could be great Mac apps.

01:13:46   If we do our job right, it shouldn't be a ton of work

01:13:48   for that to happen.

01:13:50   All of our development's done on the Mac to start with.

01:13:52   So it's an opportunity staring developers in the face

01:13:55   to say hopefully not a whole lot of work

01:13:56   for if you have an app that's appropriate to the Mac,

01:13:58   open up the new additional revenue for very little work.

01:14:01   It's a nice ROI.

01:14:02   They win, our customers win, everybody's happy.

01:14:05   - Yeah, so Electron is one of those things

01:14:08   where you can take a web app and you just shove

01:14:10   like a whole web browser into each and every application

01:14:14   and every single thing that opens up,

01:14:15   opens up a new instance of it and it's--

01:14:17   - Yeah, I'd rather have the iOS experience than--

01:14:19   - Right, like so if there's a company

01:14:21   that has a good iOS app and they have a web app,

01:14:25   it seems like there's a lot of them in the past

01:14:28   that when they were like, well let's get something

01:14:29   on the desktop on the Mac, they bundle up the web app

01:14:33   and squeeze it into a thing.

01:14:35   If they're not going to write a proper Mac app,

01:14:37   like an app kit and go the full way.

01:14:38   Taking the iOS app and Macifying it is way better.

01:14:43   - And remember at the end of the day,

01:14:44   you're getting a Mac app.

01:14:45   Those are Mac apps, right?

01:14:46   They're not iOS apps that are somehow emulated

01:14:49   or run in some crazy mode.

01:14:50   They end up being Mac apps.

01:14:52   - File, edit, everything.

01:14:55   Everything's up there in the menu bar.

01:14:57   I think it's really great.

01:14:57   I think it was pretty cool.

01:14:58   - I'm excited about it.

01:14:59   - That is about it for me.

01:15:03   Do you guys have anything else you wanted to talk about?

01:15:06   I have some thank yous to give.

01:15:07   I thank you both for coming,

01:15:10   so let me thank you guys first.

01:15:11   Mike and Jaws, thank you for coming.

01:15:13   (audience applauding)

01:15:17   I wanna thank the staff and crew here

01:15:26   at the California Theater.

01:15:27   These people are very nice.

01:15:29   (audience applauding)

01:15:32   and they do a terrific, terrific professional job.

01:15:36   It's really, really just a great place to hold an event.

01:15:38   I cannot thank them enough.

01:15:40   - I remember when we did an iPod event here

01:15:42   many, many years ago.

01:15:43   We had U2 play here.

01:15:44   - Yeah, yeah.

01:15:45   - I think it was 2004.

01:15:46   - I don't, I mean, I do remember the event,

01:15:50   and the reason, I remember thinking,

01:15:51   wow, this place is beautiful.

01:15:52   And then, remember the hands-on area?

01:15:54   - That was absolutely, not a little crunch.

01:15:57   - It was like the size of a band.

01:15:59   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:16:01   and had very low ceilings, and it was very hot.

01:16:05   - I think that was the only event we had done here.

01:16:07   (audience laughs)

01:16:10   - I wanna thank Tito, Tito is ti.to,

01:16:12   that's the ticketing service that everybody here

01:16:14   used to get their tickets.

01:16:16   I honestly don't know what I would do without it.

01:16:19   It makes something that, I don't know what I would do.

01:16:22   I don't know, I'd probably just

01:16:24   not let people come into the show.

01:16:27   (audience laughs)

01:16:28   But I think my friend Paul Campbell, who runs Tito, is here.

01:16:31   I thank you.

01:16:32   (audience applauding)

01:16:34   If you ever hold any kind of event

01:16:36   and you need to sell tickets,

01:16:37   I'm telling you, go to Tito, it's so great.

01:16:39   I wanna thank our sponsors, Instabug,

01:16:43   Max Stadium, and Microsoft.

01:16:45   Seriously, would not have this event without some sponsors.

01:16:49   (audience applauding)

01:16:52   I have a couple of friends here

01:16:56   who've been helping out all day.

01:16:57   Marco Arment is up there running the audio,

01:17:00   Live audio stream.

01:17:02   (audience applauding)

01:17:05   Jake Schumacher, who you guys know from the app documentary,

01:17:11   has been shooting the video for these live shows of mine.

01:17:16   I've told this story before,

01:17:17   but he came in to do an interview with me

01:17:18   for this documentary he's making,

01:17:21   and it was in town for WWDC,

01:17:23   and it's like three in the afternoon,

01:17:25   and I said, "Well, all right, I'll do it,

01:17:27   but hey, why don't you shoot my show?"

01:17:29   (audience laughing)

01:17:32   And now he shoots the show,

01:17:33   and it gets better and better every year.

01:17:35   The show looks so great.

01:17:36   And he's set up a live streaming over YouTube,

01:17:40   so I don't know how many people are watching it on that,

01:17:42   but there's possibly more people

01:17:44   than are even in this room who are watching.

01:17:46   That's all thanks to Jake.

01:17:48   Caleb Sexton.

01:17:49   (audience applauding)

01:17:52   My friend Caleb Sexton edits the show,

01:17:56   the audio every week.

01:17:58   He is here to make sure we sound good

01:18:01   and that the show actually gets recorded.

01:18:04   So I thank Caleb.

01:18:06   (audience applauding)

01:18:09   Paul Kefasis has been the announcer, I think,

01:18:11   also as long as I've been doing this show

01:18:13   and he does a bang up job announcing.

01:18:15   I don't know if you've seen him this week.

01:18:16   He had a little bit of an ankle injury.

01:18:19   He's sort of got like a peg leg thing.

01:18:20   It easily could have punted on WWDC this year,

01:18:24   but he came and he won't tell me this,

01:18:26   but I can see it in his eyes that he came

01:18:28   just to do the announcing for this show.

01:18:30   (audience laughs)

01:18:33   And then last but not least, I need to thank my wife, Amy.

01:18:42   I really don't know how I would do this show without her.

01:18:46   She handles about 300 issues that all pop up

01:18:52   between 5.45 and seven o'clock.

01:18:57   And she'll come by and she'll start to explain it to me.

01:19:02   And she'll look at me and I'm there,

01:19:05   going through my cards.

01:19:06   And she'll start to explain it and she'll,

01:19:10   I got it.

01:19:10   And then she just goes and takes care of it.

01:19:12   But seriously, so many little goofy things

01:19:15   with seating and stuff go wrong.

01:19:16   I really don't know what I would do without her.

01:19:19   So my thanks to Amy.

01:19:20   (audience applauding)

01:19:24   And my sincerest thanks to all of you,

01:19:37   everybody in this room,

01:19:40   everybody watching on the video stream.

01:19:42   It is an enormous privilege to have so many people come here

01:19:46   and to be so excited to see this show every year.

01:19:48   that still boggles my mind.

01:19:51   And every time we have this event,

01:19:52   the event staff always says,

01:19:54   "These are the nicest people."

01:19:57   Except for that one guy.

01:19:58   (audience laughs)

01:20:00   But other than him,

01:20:02   everybody always says,

01:20:03   "My God, these people are so nice and orderly,

01:20:04   "they don't leave trash behind."

01:20:06   I thank you for coming.

01:20:09   Hopefully, I will see you next year.

01:20:11   And that's it.

01:20:12   - Awesome.

01:20:13   (audience applauds)

01:20:17   [APPLAUSE]

01:20:20   [ Applause ]