The Talk Show

213: ‘Don’t Tap the Monkey’ With John Moltz


00:00:00   So, uh, before I came down here to the old podcast dungeon, um,

00:00:04   Amy asked me, she goes, who's on your show this week? I said,

00:00:07   moltz. And she goes, oh,

00:00:09   and I just tell her, I said, hi to, I gave her a look and she laughed,

00:00:16   you know, she just gave that great Amy laugh. And she goes, honestly,

00:00:19   I don't know why I did. And I love moltz. She goes,

00:00:22   actually of all the boring people you have on your show,

00:00:24   moltz is one of the few I like to hang out with.

00:00:29   She doesn't want to listen to me talk. That's all like she doesn't know

00:00:32   It was a very good drink

00:00:34   But you know it was just like listen to me talk for like two hours or whatever

00:00:38   There's literally nobody who I could say who's on my show that she wouldn't go

00:00:43   Let's give that reaction to

00:00:46   I bet she wouldn't do it to serenity, but no no probably not and

00:00:52   You know maybe not if I had if I had somehow got ryan johnson back on the show yeah, maybe yeah

00:00:58   Yeah. That's still kind of amazing. That's isn't that still kind of amazing. That's still

00:01:04   really amazing. I tell I tell people like, I'm sometimes on the podcast on a podcast

00:01:09   that Ryan Johnson was on. Right? No, no, you know, I wasn't on the same time as he was.

00:01:15   But now I've mentioned it now I have to put it in the show notes and I have to dig it

00:01:19   up. It's there's I'm so I'm getting bad at just crossing things off my to do list. Do

00:01:27   Do you find that you're more organized or less organized or the same as when you were

00:01:34   younger?

00:01:35   Uh, probably about the same, which is not great.

00:01:38   I suspect that I'm getting worse.

00:01:39   Like I've been meaning to put those old episodes from when I was on the mule quote unquote

00:01:45   network into my RSS feed for the show so that they're there because I have them all.

00:01:50   They're not lost and you can get them now at the internet archive, which is such a wonderful

00:01:55   resource.

00:01:57   right now it's, you know, they're not really there. So I've had, I'm so proud of it. I

00:02:02   had Rian Johnson on my podcast and right now that episode at the peak of—

00:02:06   John: Oh, you can't get that one?

00:02:07   Michael DeMuth – Not through the feed. You have to go to the Internet archive. I really

00:02:12   ought to fix that.

00:02:14   John – That would be one. I would think that would be one that people would want to

00:02:18   hear. The first one with me on it, don't worry about that one.

00:02:24   (laughing)

00:02:26   I don't know.

00:02:27   I think I'm just rocketing.

00:02:30   I don't think I've had a shortage of crotchediness,

00:02:34   but I just feel like I'm getting an angry old man

00:02:38   at a frightening clip.

00:02:41   Today I had to go to the bank.

00:02:42   Daring Fireball is a LLC,

00:02:48   and every couple of weeks I write a check to myself.

00:02:53   It's all a little bit confusing because I'm signing a check John Gruber to John Gruber

00:03:00   and then endorsing it on the back as John Gruber and it all feels a little it all feels a little

00:03:05   shady you know what I mean like it just seems like I don't even know what check kiting is but

00:03:10   it seems like maybe that's it. I go and it it took like 15 minutes it's like I had to wait in the line

00:03:22   or as I say in New York, you do this physically and you have to go. I do because my bank has like

00:03:28   a stupid small limit on what you can deposit electronically. Like I can't, we can't deposit

00:03:34   more than like a $500 check or a $300 check electronically. You have to, so really what the

00:03:41   long story short is I should find a new bank is what I should do. Yeah. It also seems weird and

00:03:48   maybe there is a better way. Maybe I'm just a big dummy, you know, that there should be, you know,

00:03:52   my business account and my personal account are at the same bank and maybe there's a better way than

00:03:56   writing a check. I don't know. I guess. I have a sole proprietor, so I just, you know,

00:04:03   it all pretty much almost goes into the same pot. I mean, I have separate accounts, but it doesn't

00:04:09   really really matter as much for that situation. But even my credit union has a great iOS app,

00:04:18   And they don't, you know, I'm like, I've deposited checks of like, man, a lot, vast sums of money.

00:04:26   I don't know. Yeah, sure. You know, it just seems not that much. But yes,

00:04:32   it just seems like it would. I gotta look into it. I'm just it. But it's just one other one of

00:04:35   those items on my to do list, like figure out how to do banking better. And it's like just vague

00:04:40   enough that it never really feels like today's the day where I'm gonna spend all day. Yeah.

00:04:45   Yeah, but that's always the thing with the stuff that sticks down around the bottom of

00:04:49   the list is like that stuff tends to just never get done.

00:04:52   All right.

00:04:54   What else is new?

00:04:57   You order a HomePod?

00:05:00   I did not order a HomePod.

00:05:02   I'm waiting to hear.

00:05:05   My use case is pretty specific for it, I think, because I don't picture...

00:05:10   I don't know.

00:05:12   We don't sit in the living room and listen to music that much.

00:05:15   Maybe we would if we had one.

00:05:16   But I actually listen to music mostly in the kitchen, and I've already got a Sonos in the

00:05:22   kitchen, which I like.

00:05:25   And so my use case for the thing is probably more like a soundbar for the TV.

00:05:34   I don't know that it's good for that.

00:05:35   I want to hear how that works.

00:05:36   Right.

00:05:37   Well, see, that's the thing.

00:05:38   I mean, right now, I'm not sure that it is because it's just AirPlay One.

00:05:40   And I don't really trust AirPlay One very much.

00:05:44   So I have not had a great experience with AirPlay One.

00:05:47   Right.

00:05:48   Like that's one of the—it's an interesting product and I feel like the complaints that

00:05:57   everybody has about it are—it just feels like we're on a merry-go-round.

00:06:03   It's the same thing every time Apple releases any product, right?

00:06:06   Like it doesn't have any input other than AirPlay.

00:06:12   So you can talk to it and if you have Apple Music, it'll play the music from your cloud.

00:06:21   And otherwise you can airplay to it. It's an airplay speaker and that's it. There

00:06:24   is no line in as the autophiles would say. And some people seem irrationally angry about

00:06:32   that but there are other products that have line in. So I don't know. I'm not quite

00:06:40   sure why people are angry and it dropping everything except the wireless over the air

00:06:46   connection feels like a very Apple thing to do. Yeah, definitely. I could definitely.

00:06:53   That's not something I like. Where do you? I don't know. I guess you could put you could

00:06:57   put a physical line from your TV or something in. Right. I mean, you're not going to hook

00:07:01   up your iPhone for us. So I ordered one and it was funny because I didn't know if it was

00:07:10   going to be like a midnight thing. They just said it was going on sale Friday. And so I

00:07:16   thought maybe like the phone, it would have to be at like 3 a.m. Eastern, midnight Pacific

00:07:21   time. So I stayed up and I was very tired. And nothing happened. There was no way to

00:07:29   buy and I waited like 20 minutes. I really didn't have a choice. I could either go upstairs

00:07:38   and go to bed and fall asleep,

00:07:39   or I would fall asleep right there on the couch

00:07:42   because the lights were going out.

00:07:44   Woke up in the morning and it was on sale

00:07:47   and it doesn't seem like there's any kind of shortages

00:07:50   or anything.

00:07:51   - No, it's still delivery February 9th.

00:07:54   - Which I don't think is necessarily a sign of poor sales.

00:07:57   I think that, 'cause all the rumors I had heard

00:08:00   from multiple little birdies were that the entire holdup,

00:08:05   Versus you know why it was late from last instead of shipping as promised in

00:08:09   I shouldn't say promise but as intended

00:08:12   Before the end of the calendar year 2017 was software quote unquote software

00:08:18   I don't know if it was if it's the software on the that runs on the in the home pod

00:08:23   I don't know if it's the software and the servers that connects, you know makes all the Apple music stuff work

00:08:29   Just software, but that make you know, that would explain why the hardware is shipping in quantity

00:08:34   Yeah. And I don't, I mean, right now, I don't expect it to be that sought after.

00:08:43   Right. Right.

00:08:44   I mean, because it does seem like, you know, it's a fairly expensive device,

00:08:47   and particularly for the category. And it seems like, like, for me,

00:08:50   it's something that you might want to read a few reviews of before you pull the trigger on.

00:08:54   Yeah, I think it's funny. Renee was on the last episode, and we talked about it. I do think it's

00:09:01   funny. I mean, even the name AirPod and HomePod, I'm probably going to slip up and call the damn

00:09:06   thing AirPod twice during the show. But I think they're obviously intended as siblings, right?

00:09:12   One is the little, little guys that go in your ears and one, you know, sits on your countertop

00:09:18   or your tabletop. But they're so similar in spirit. And I kind of feel like the way that like,

00:09:27   like when AirPods first came out, now they were hard to get,

00:09:29   they were very, you know, were delayed

00:09:32   and weren't available, widely available.

00:09:36   But I feel like you see them more and more these days

00:09:38   and I just feel like that's the sort of uptake

00:09:41   if HomePod is successful.

00:09:44   And I think that's what's interesting about it is to me,

00:09:46   it's a huge F, I really, this is very hard to predict,

00:09:50   it's very hard for me to predict how this is gonna do.

00:09:53   But if it is a hit, I don't think it'll be an instant hit.

00:09:55   I think it'll be the sort of thing where somebody gets it and then you're over at their house

00:10:00   and you hear it and you see how easy, you know, it's fun to just tell it to, you know,

00:10:06   hey dingus play whatever and it works.

00:10:14   That's how it was with TiVo for me and Amy.

00:10:16   Like I remember when I first went to work at Barebone Software back in 2000, Rich Siegel

00:10:22   invited us to his house for dinner because we'd just moved from Philadelphia up to Massachusetts,

00:10:26   went to his house. And I specifically remember, it must have been the fall because the Yankees

00:10:30   were in the playoffs and there was, so we watched a bit of baseball, but we were blown

00:10:35   away by TiVo. We were like, holy cow, I got heard of it. I had, I knew the basic idea

00:10:40   and you could fast forward commercials and pause it, whatever. But once you saw it, it's

00:10:44   like, oh my God, this is nothing like a VCR, right? And we went out the next morning and

00:10:51   Like, I feel like HomePod could be like that for some people.

00:10:54   Yeah.

00:10:55   Yeah, there's certain, I mean, there's certain things that you kind of just have to get.

00:10:59   We were talking about before that when the Shuffle came out, we had our friend Albert

00:11:06   over for dinner and we were sitting around talking and Karen said something derogatory

00:11:10   about the Shuffle.

00:11:11   It's like she just thought it was stupid.

00:11:12   And we had some music playing and he said, he's like, well, it's just, you know, plays

00:11:15   this place a shuffle lesson.

00:11:16   And she was like, yeah, I think that's dumb.

00:11:17   That's all it does.

00:11:18   And he said, what are you playing right now?

00:11:20   now. Oh yeah, it's a shuffle list. And that's almost always what we play.

00:11:27   Right.

00:11:28   And so I got a shovel when it came out.

00:11:30   It is funny too, because when we were kids, you couldn't shuffle. There was no way to shuffle.

00:11:42   Yeah.

00:11:43   Everything was sequential.

00:11:44   You had to hit the fast forward button on the tape thing to go to the next song.

00:11:47   Right. Which would chew up your tape half the time. Right. So I

00:11:53   you know, I can spend the opening thing of the show

00:11:57   complaining that I spent five minutes at a bank. But meanwhile,

00:12:02   I spent my entire youth rewinding and fast forwarding

00:12:05   cassette tapes to listen to music and never thought twice

00:12:09   about it.

00:12:09   Do you ever have a track? No, I never had a track. We had a car

00:12:14   and we had one car that had a track in it. Briefly, I think I

00:12:17   think it like broke down really quickly and we ended up not

00:12:20   having it for more than like a year or something like that. And

00:12:24   I just I don't even know how that worked. But it was just it

00:12:26   was very strange. Like it was I think it was Yeah, I guess it

00:12:28   was just eight, eight separate. It was like tape, but it was

00:12:31   eight separate tracks at once. And you could just flip between

00:12:35   songs. That's just pick up a song midway through depending on

00:12:40   I

00:12:42   I isn't isn't it the case to that a track was had much higher

00:12:46   Fidelity than cassette tapes. I think it might have yeah

00:12:48   I mean the name alone makes it seem like it did but and and cuz cassette tapes were just terrible just

00:12:55   absolutely dreadful technology they were

00:12:57   They didn't have they didn't sound great. They were you had to rewind and fast-forward them

00:13:03   They would you could make your own you could make your own playlist, right? Exactly. I mean that was the that was the hook

00:13:08   I that was the thing to get about that, you know, I mean that was like, you know

00:13:11   It created a whole I've been creating a play a playlist. We're getting a mixtape for somebody

00:13:16   Yeah, that was a whole thing

00:13:18   I used I used to have I'd be listening to the radio and I would have a tape in my

00:13:23   Player ready to go and then every time it got to the end of a song I would move my hand over

00:13:29   Just in case the next song was a good one

00:13:32   And then I if it was I would hit record and want to get it, you know

00:13:37   So I had these tapes where I had all this music I'd taped off

00:13:40   FM radio and the beginning of every song is sort of like that that like Oh cut off cry

00:13:46   We're either cut off or like the cross fade between songs, you know

00:13:50   And those were the days those were the days that's what kids boy boy are we getting old

00:14:04   All right, let me take a break here and thank

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00:15:30   I've had a couple of these, I like them a lot.

00:15:35   I didn't know what dates tasted like.

00:15:37   I don't remember if I've ever eaten dates.

00:15:39   And so--

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00:16:09   enter that code talk show at checkout to save 25% really excited about the sponsor. I find

00:16:19   Did you buy a lot of stuff online I buy so much we don't it's like it's gotten to the point

00:16:25   Amy and I went shopping last weekend and we were like, you know what?

00:16:28   When's the last time we went shopping together like just browsing around like out? Yeah, like, hmm. You just don't do it

00:16:34   Well, yeah, we certainly don't I mean we don't do it together anymore, right? It's like too much credit

00:16:40   No, you go do that. I gotta go do this other thing. I

00:16:43   Don't know how picky they're gonna be

00:16:46   I'm gonna the I'm supposed to tell you what my favorite rx bar that I've tried so far

00:16:50   I haven't tried all 11, but I will tell you that the one I like the best so far is chocolate sea salt

00:16:54   I love that. Sounds good. Oh

00:16:57   Chocolate and salt go whatsoever together. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know

00:17:00   I don't know when I found out that dates were dates like I mean, I would have thought for years that dates

00:17:04   Oh god, I don't want to get a date. That sounds terrible. Yeah

00:17:06   Yeah, and then I think we get this cereal this some like nut crunch thing that had dates and I was like man

00:17:13   these are really good. I don't I don't know where I got the idea. I got the idea that they were like

00:17:18   prunes or something. Right. Well, they're dried, but that's but it's well, I mean, yeah. And the

00:17:24   only other thing I remember about dates, of course, is the great scene in Raiders of the

00:17:29   Lost Ark. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Maybe that I wonder if that had a bad effect on date sales.

00:17:34   I think it might have poisoned my brain. For those of you who don't recall, there's,

00:17:39   There's a a monkey bedeviling Indiana Jones throughout the movie and uh an assassin comes in

00:17:45   to kill Indiana Jones and pour some poison on some dates spoiler alert yeah yeah and then the monkey

00:17:51   eats a date and I'll leave the pun up to your imagination. Anyway, dates amazing. File that under

00:18:01   40 some years of wasted opportunity.

00:18:04   It's true.

00:18:07   Like how much stuff else out there that I'm supposed to have been eating for the last

00:18:12   30 years that I just have filed away as something I don't like? I don't know.

00:18:17   There's a few things. I mean, I think there's a few things that I don't like that I, but I

00:18:22   definitely know I don't like them. Like I've tried them. I've tried them recently. I don't think,

00:18:27   I don't think there's a thing that I've had for ever.

00:18:30   I'm not crazy about cherries. I've never been crazy about cherries just because

00:18:35   that was like always the flavor of medicine when I was a kid.

00:18:41   And so I always sort of associate it with some like, "Oh god, I gotta take this crap because I'm sick."

00:18:47   But my new exception is liquor-soaked cherries are really good.

00:18:56   you get in a drink you know and they're like they're really dark and they're full of like

00:19:00   bourbon or something yeah so not like a not like a maraschino cherry you're talking about like it

00:19:05   no not like a maraschino cherry but like a like a liquor infused cherry yeah that does

00:19:09   eat those that does sound good um friend of the show uh scott simpson is is a you as you probably

00:19:17   remember is a very very big fan of the maraschino cherry yes right what was the drink that the that

00:19:23   that the boys made. They made the Aunt Nancy. Remember, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Is it from the

00:19:28   show? Yeah, from you look nice today. The boys came up with their signature cocktail

00:19:32   of the podcast. I believe in Aunt Nancy is quote a fistful of maraschino cherries and

00:19:40   then makers makers mark to garnish. I think I think so. That sounds familiar and I it

00:19:48   It fits because Scott has a knack of finding the worst bars possible. You go to a town

00:19:54   with Scott and he will just instinctively wander into the most horrible bar you could

00:20:01   find. And not horrible and like, "Oh my God, it's a terrible dive," but just crappy

00:20:05   like TGI Friday's kind of bar.

00:20:09   Yep. Like a TGI Friday's that hasn't been inspected in a few years.

00:20:16   Which is to say a TGI Friday's.

00:20:18   and the town, everybody in whatever town it is just assumes it's been closed for a while,

00:20:23   so they haven't sent an inspector. I've been out with him. I've been out with him and he literally

00:20:29   will order a drink with a fistful of maraschino cherries and then the bartender will start plopping

00:20:35   like two or three in and Scott is so great. It's not like he's bossing them and telling them what

00:20:40   to do. He's like, "Oh no, no, I'm so sorry. I literally meant a fistful. Put a whole fistful in."

00:20:44   I don't know. Maybe that's a good way of getting a snack while you're yeah. Well,

00:20:51   that's part of his, you know, you get a free, like, you know, you might have to pay for a bowl of

00:20:55   pretzels or something. That's just part of the drink. They charge extra for that.

00:21:02   HomePod. We were talking about. So people, some people got access last week. Apparently

00:21:08   a friend of the show, serenity Caldwell had a writeup at, uh, I'm more, um,

00:21:14   I think it was Brian heater had a write-up at TechCrunch seems like people like it

00:21:19   It sounds like what people got was sort of a similar demonstration as the one we had it back at WWDC where they

00:21:26   Were had side-by-side comparisons

00:21:29   But including now the Google home max, which is actually four hundred dollars more than a home pod

00:21:37   Not sure what to say though if without me having heard one so I don't know

00:21:43   (laughs)

00:21:46   I'm looking forward to it though.

00:21:47   - So it doesn't, I mean, it sounds like there's a few things

00:21:50   to pull out of some of this information,

00:21:52   just that it will play,

00:21:54   you don't have to have Apple Music per se.

00:21:58   - No.

00:21:59   - 'Cause it'll play iCloud Music library stuff

00:22:01   that's subscribed to via iTunes match.

00:22:04   - Yes, it was a surprising source of confusion.

00:22:08   I really do think entirely Apple's fault.

00:22:11   I mean, and all straightened out now, I think,

00:22:13   and certainly will be straightened out

00:22:15   before people get these HomePods.

00:22:17   But there was, it was like in their fervor

00:22:21   to emphasize Apple Music and encourage people,

00:22:26   that the two things go hand in hand,

00:22:30   that if you have HomePod, you'll love Apple Music,

00:22:32   and if you have Apple Music, you'll love a HomePod.

00:22:35   It seemed to get, it almost came out

00:22:39   the only thing I could play was Apple Music, and that is not the case. So if you have iTunes

00:22:46   Match or iCloud—whatever it's called, there's a lot of different things there—but

00:22:52   iCloud Music Library? Isn't that what it's called?

00:22:55   So if you have iCloud Music Library and you have songs like Bootlegs or just, for whatever

00:23:01   reason, music that's not in iTunes Store or Apple Music, it'll play it. And you don't

00:23:09   have to airplay it to do it. You can just tell Siri and she'll play it, which is as you would

00:23:15   expect. You would like I wrote on during fireball when it when it sounded like maybe it didn't work

00:23:21   that it was kind of confounding because the entire stack is apples. Like they're not,

00:23:24   you know, I mean, I, I, iTunes is Apple's thing, so it ought to work. Yeah, you'd think. And it

00:23:33   apparently it, well, it's at least supposed to. So, you know how well it works, we'll have to see,

00:23:37   but it does work. And then you can earplay from whatever you can earplay from.

00:23:44   I'm really looking forward to it. I've said this before, but we have the Amazon Echo in our

00:23:51   kitchen. And Amy spends a lot of time there. It's like a nice room. It's got a big island thing in

00:24:01   in the middle, you can hang out. And, you know, she listens to music on the echo. And

00:24:07   I think it sounds terrible. You know, I don't know how much better. Right? Like, I don't

00:24:13   know how much better home pod really will sound compared to an Amazon echo in our kitchen.

00:24:19   You know, I remember the demo I got at WWDC. And it clearly sounded better. I mean, but

00:24:24   you know, and and, you know, it to Amazon's credit, they don't really bill it as a as

00:24:29   as being a music thing.

00:24:32   - It's clearly way cheaper too.

00:24:33   - Right, it is way cheaper.

00:24:35   It is a lot more like sort of like a good

00:24:38   clock radio type thing.

00:24:41   But for us, and it really was,

00:24:44   we were on the cusp thinking about getting a Sonos

00:24:49   back when they announced it.

00:24:51   And so put it off, we'll wait for this thing.

00:24:53   So I'm looking forward to it.

00:24:56   So we'll definitely have one in the kitchen.

00:24:58   whether we like it enough that I'll get one from my office. I don't, I don't know.

00:25:01   Yeah. And well, I mean, I think, well, I get, are you,

00:25:06   those are separate zones, right?

00:25:08   So you wouldn't be trying to play necessarily the same stuff to each,

00:25:12   to both of them at the same time. Now I, I,

00:25:14   is that you can't that you can't do until you get your plate too. Yeah. And uh,

00:25:18   yeah. And that's a weird thing too. Like, so you can't do multi-room audio.

00:25:23   That would be like playing like for a party or something,

00:25:26   playing the same song in multiple rooms

00:25:28   at the same synchronization.

00:25:30   - Right, and that's the thing I could see us doing.

00:25:33   I think that we, because currently we just like,

00:25:35   we have a party, we play the music from the Sonos

00:25:37   in the kitchen and most people, frankly, it's a party.

00:25:39   Most people hang out in the kitchen for whatever reason.

00:25:42   But I would think that we would wanna have it

00:25:47   in the living room too.

00:25:48   - Yeah, I'm still curious how they're gonna do it

00:25:52   in the stores.

00:25:54   I really am, 'cause it's, those Apple stores are so noisy

00:25:59   and acoustically seem like nightmares

00:26:05   because it's hard floors, hard tables.

00:26:08   I don't, I think the walls are hard, aren't they?

00:26:11   A lot of them have like the, it just glass front, you know?

00:26:15   - Yeah. - A big,

00:26:16   just sounds like a loud echo. - Yeah, and like

00:26:17   a wide open thing to the mall.

00:26:19   - Right, so I'm really curious about that.

00:26:23   And as usual, Apple is, they don't,

00:26:27   - They won't tell you.

00:26:28   - Well, we'll find out when they're in the stores,

00:26:30   whether they're actually, who knows,

00:26:33   maybe you won't really be able to play them.

00:26:35   It just seems weird.

00:26:36   It seems like a hard product to sell given their...

00:26:40   - They let you play with the Apple TV.

00:26:42   - Yeah, but that's not noisy, right?

00:26:44   - Yeah, no, I mean, I know, yeah.

00:26:46   But I mean, I was wondering about that at the time too,

00:26:49   how they were gonna demonstrate that,

00:26:51   but they just have it there.

00:26:53   - Yeah.

00:26:54   - Go at it.

00:26:54   - And it's like a different retail setup.

00:26:59   You could have like a fake living room.

00:27:02   You know, like when you go to Ikea,

00:27:04   they have little fake kitchens

00:27:06   and you can pretend like you live here.

00:27:07   And I don't see how Apple could do that effectively

00:27:12   in the Apple store.

00:27:14   - Well, I'm sure you've been to,

00:27:15   I mean, years going back in time again,

00:27:18   those stereo stores where they have the sealed off rooms.

00:27:22   - Yeah.

00:27:23   - 'Cause that was like, you know, like you buy,

00:27:24   you buy the components separately and get, you know,

00:27:27   you get your tape deck, you get your receiver,

00:27:30   and then you gotta buy the speakers.

00:27:32   You gotta go into the room to try the speakers out

00:27:34   'cause you gotta get the back.

00:27:35   - Right.

00:27:37   And they would have like a little, like an apparatus

00:27:39   where they could switch, you know, like they wouldn't have

00:27:42   to plug and unplug them.

00:27:43   They'd have like a little ABCD type thing

00:27:46   they could turn a dial and and I don't know I don't think I don't know of any place that does

00:27:52   that anymore maybe their places and big bigger cities than where I live but but they but the

00:27:57   one place that they do have stuff like that still is like the car stereo places yeah yeah

00:28:02   yeah I guess they would wouldn't they yeah because I was in one of those like a few years ago and

00:28:08   that that business seems like it's still still relatively the same because the aftermarket car

00:28:14   stuff. You know, people people still do that a lot. I mean, they I guess people still do speakers

00:28:19   too, but I had probably less than they used to because it seems like people are switching to

00:28:24   these these sort of connected devices that are Yeah, somebody was just telling me I knew I knew

00:28:31   that it was a thing I was somehow I don't forget if it was on my podcast or where but somehow it

00:28:37   came up where I was talking about the fact that we have a our one car is a 2006 and and therefore

00:28:44   pre is it was predates not just the iPhone but it was also it didn't even have the 30 pin connector

00:28:51   like the 2007 models came with a 30 pin connector and I remember thinking like man that would have

00:28:56   been sweet and I think we've had this car so long we've had this car so long where I went from having

00:29:02   a pang of jealousy that we didn't have a 30-pin connector to hook up like an iPod to now being,

00:29:08   wow, did we dodge a bullet on that one? Yeah, right. Like all those hotels that have the…

00:29:15   But anyway, somebody mentioned… The dock connector.

00:29:16   Yeah. Somebody mentioned that you can go to one of those car stereo places and get like a car

00:29:22   play set up. Like you don't have to, you know, I guess this all came up in the aftermath of the

00:29:26   BMW thing where BMW was rumored to begin charging $80 a year just to keep your carplay working.

00:29:34   And somebody said that you can just go to and buy an aftermarket carplay thing and that a lot of

00:29:42   them are better because the car makers don't screw up. That's what I should do eventually. God,

00:29:46   I wonder how that works with like, it seems like all these, I mean like, you know, I now have an

00:29:49   integrated screen in the car. So I got a new car a couple years, three years ago, something like

00:29:54   that um but yeah but prior to that i had a you know you need to have your car get you you have

00:30:01   to have your um stereo get stolen that's what you need that's what happened that's what happened to

00:30:05   me and then i got because i had i had the tape deck thing where you just you know like you put

00:30:10   a tape deck and you push that thing into the tape deck to play um you know and then it's just a wire

00:30:18   that you connected to your iphone yeah that's what we've got i've got that's what we've got

00:30:22   That way is that what you're still yeah our car has it

00:30:25   You definitely need to get your stereo still our car has like a six disc CD player and a cassette tape player

00:30:33   God I got stolen and I was like, I'm getting Bluetooth

00:30:38   It's funny. We've gone in the course of half an hour

00:30:41   We've gone from me thinking cassette tapes were likes like a relic of my childhood to me it

00:30:47   technology that you're still relying on that technology right the car that's right above me right now is

00:30:52   Still has that technology

00:30:55   Go write yourself another check

00:31:06   All right, let me take another break here and thank our next

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00:33:03   is where you go, and when you enter the code "talk show," no "the," just "talk

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00:33:13   there, get a free trial, use it for a couple of weeks. And then

00:33:15   when you pay remember that code talk show. I don't have much

00:33:22   else to say about home pod. I feel like we got to get we got

00:33:24   to get them before we can talk more about it. I had this on my

00:33:28   list of topics. Did you hear that the iPhone 10 was

00:33:31   canceled?

00:33:33   I had heard that.

00:33:38   This is still a thing.

00:33:40   Yeah.

00:33:41   So, Ming-Chi Kuo wrote in one of his famous notes that because of weak demand, and I think

00:33:55   he only said in China that the iPhone X would not be continued. And I forget his exact words,

00:34:06   but he said something about summer, that they would stop. He didn't say stop production.

00:34:15   He said something vague, though.

00:34:17   It – René and I talked about it last week, but it's the week – in the week since,

00:34:22   It's just now it's just part of the air out there that people think the iPhone 10 has been cancelled

00:34:27   When what it really was was something something to the effect of if they're not gonna keep selling it after the 2018 phones come out

00:34:34   Yeah, they'll stop production at some point in the summer because they'll have enough of them to sell up until September

00:34:40   Whatever the date is September 20th or whatever. It's going to be you don't stop making them when you stop selling them, right?

00:34:48   But then it quickly it quickly the story so it spun out of control and became

00:34:53   That they're going to stop selling them as soon as they stop making them in the summer and that we're gonna have like a weeks

00:35:00   Long gap with no iPhone 10

00:35:02   And then it quickly changed to there it being canceled right now

00:35:07   In January, it's any minute imminent. Like I think I said, I think I saw someone say like, you know shortly or imminent or something

00:35:16   just like yeah but in I mean within the last few days though also I've seen a

00:35:23   whole bunch of things that said that it's actually selling quite well right

00:35:26   and it's all it's it's like clockwork I every January it comes at these these

00:35:32   bullshit reports come out that say that that there's production is being you

00:35:38   know apples have told its suppliers that it's cutting forecasts well so you you'd

00:35:46   You'd retweeted Ryan Jones, who plowed through some of the numbers.

00:35:53   So the Wall Street Journal says, "iPhone 10 Q2 cut was from $40 million planned to $20

00:36:01   million."

00:36:02   And he points out that usually, the last two years, Apple sold about $50 million in that

00:36:07   quarter.

00:36:08   Right.

00:36:09   And does $40 million for that quarter make any sense whatsoever?

00:36:14   Do you think they really thought that they were gonna sell,

00:36:16   like 80% of their sales were gonna be the iPhone 10?

00:36:20   So no, I mean, it seems like 20 million

00:36:22   is actually what it would have realistically been.

00:36:25   - Yeah.

00:36:26   I think it was, and I think it was ATP Tipster, I believe,

00:36:33   who asked me whether I thought this was malfeasance

00:36:41   or are these suppliers just being cherry-picked?

00:36:46   And as Apple moves,

00:36:51   here's the company that makes the volume buttons,

00:36:56   and they're gonna, Tim Cook's figured out

00:36:59   that they could save five cents per button

00:37:02   if they go to somebody across town.

00:37:05   And so they cut the supplies from company A

00:37:09   and increase the ones from company B,

00:37:11   but company A has no idea because Apple, of course,

00:37:13   is probably a nightmare to deal with

00:37:16   because they're so secretive

00:37:18   and they're so good at being secretive.

00:37:20   So company A just hears,

00:37:21   oh, we don't need as many volume buttons

00:37:23   as we thought we would from you anymore.

00:37:25   And then they go and blab to somebody that,

00:37:28   hey, the iPhone 10, they're cutting the production in half.

00:37:32   And I think it's more malfeasance.

00:37:36   I really do think it's people spreading rumors,

00:37:41   either for competitive reasons or to short the stock.

00:37:44   And the reason why is 'cause you never hear

00:37:47   from the other suppliers.

00:37:49   You never hear some other supplier say,

00:37:53   oh, well, it sounds to me, it sounds to us

00:37:56   like iPhone demand has doubled.

00:37:58   (laughing)

00:38:01   I guess if I want to try to find a way,

00:38:04   if I try to, you know, devil's advocate,

00:38:06   try to figure out, maybe it could be

00:38:10   that the suppliers who get the increased demand from Apple

00:38:15   are so happy about it and they don't wanna piss Apple off

00:38:19   so they keep their mouths shut

00:38:21   and it's the supplier who Apple cuts.

00:38:24   The demand is sour grapes

00:38:26   and then they go and talk to the Wall Street Journal?

00:38:28   I don't know.

00:38:29   I guess that's possible but it seems to me like if you want,

00:38:33   even if you still have 20 million--

00:38:35   - I mean the thing that drives me crazy

00:38:36   Most of this stuff comes from financial analysts, right?

00:38:41   And these, and I think he does,

00:38:45   I mean, he does a pretty good job, basically,

00:38:48   as far as they all go, he does a pretty good job.

00:38:50   But a lot of these guys just,

00:38:52   they get out there and they say the craziest,

00:38:53   I mean, what's his name?

00:38:55   Choudry.

00:38:58   - Yeah, Trip.

00:38:59   - Trip Choudry, yeah.

00:39:00   I mean, how does that guy view his,

00:39:06   what is his game there in saying the crazy stuff that he does? I mean, I guess he's just he doesn't

00:39:10   he doesn't care about that. But it just it seems like if you're a financial analyst,

00:39:14   why would you say stuff that is demonstrably wrong all the time?

00:39:17   How does that make a good case for people? You know, like subscribing to your your material

00:39:25   or investing through you? Right? I have no idea. Like I, I guess I can see why somebody would want

00:39:31   to pay for Ming Chi Kuo's stuff because it seems like he you know he's not perfect but a lot of his

00:39:37   stuff is accurate you know what I don't know 60 70 percent right and you can kind of you can kind

00:39:46   of see the you know from his history you can see which are the type of things he's speculating

00:39:50   about and which ones are not you know I mean like the basically like if he says something's going

00:39:59   on at Foxconn, you can be pretty sure about it. There's some people—he's more or less taken

00:40:05   Foxconn people out and getting them drunk and they tell them secrets.

00:40:08   [Laughter]

00:40:09   John: Those people need a drink, too.

00:40:15   All right, I just I googled my uh, I did a search here for some trip trip claims

00:40:21   Here's one I wrote in uh, January 2012 January 2016 so that was

00:40:31   Two years ago, uh trip claim chowdhury woke up from another bender

00:40:36   Garrett cook reporting for yahoo finance last week in a recent note chowdhury called for the quote

00:40:44   "completely clueless," Tim Cook to be replaced.

00:40:48   He cited a culture of "bozo's" at Apple, destroying $486 billion

00:40:57   in shareholder value under Cook's management. $486 billion.

00:41:03   There is hope, though, for Apple's management, and it starts with Jonathan Rubenstein taking over

00:41:12   Do you remember this?

00:41:14   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:16   It's unbelievable.

00:41:17   Cook needs to be replaced and mercifully noted Cook can "go back to his operations role."

00:41:23   Sure, that's how that works.

00:41:26   So he thinks—

00:41:27   You just get demoted back to the role that you had.

00:41:31   It wouldn't be humiliating at all.

00:41:33   No, no.

00:41:35   And certainly figuring out the, you know, like his salary and his benefits, that would be very easy.

00:41:40   be very easy. You just roll them back to what he was getting before.

00:41:43   I forgot that I wrote this. This is so good. So my quip on this post was,

00:41:48   "Has anyone considered the possibility that 'Trip Choudry' doesn't actually exist and is really some

00:41:54   sort of experiment to test whether the business press will question anyone claiming to be an

00:41:59   analyst, no matter how I name their statements?" Yeah. I think the famous one was when he said

00:42:07   that Apple needed to release a watch within like 60 days or it was going to go out of business.

00:42:11   That's true.

00:42:12   And that guy probably makes a decent living, you know. He probably does quite well.

00:42:25   I think.

00:42:26   And it's clearly, I mean, you know, and so I assume that this is some sort of performance art.

00:42:31   Right? I mean, he's, they definitely do this, you know, they, it's the same thing with like

00:42:37   people who are selling books who will come out and say, "Somebody has some book about

00:42:44   the techno--the top seven tips from smartest technology managers in Silicon Valley or something

00:42:53   like that."

00:42:54   In order to pump the book, they'll make some crazy claim about Apple and put down at the

00:43:01   bottom.

00:43:02   know I so and so is the author of the new book whatever yeah um so there's there's definitely

00:43:08   that going on and I I just assume that he has decided somehow that and some of these

00:43:13   other ones have decided that they're that's going to be their thing I guess so it just doesn't make

00:43:20   sense to me it doesn't make sense to me either because you sound like an idiot if I were that

00:43:24   accurate writing it during fireball like I

00:43:27   Would be like that have like three viewers and one of them would be my mom, you know, I mean like who would read it

00:43:35   Trip chow, we were read it

00:43:39   Like if our podcast my podcast word is regularly wrong and profoundly is that like wouldn't people be furious like if I

00:43:51   If I if I was railing that Tim Cook is a bozo who needed to be fired wouldn't people be furious

00:43:57   He'd be like I cannot listen to this guy anymore. I mean, maybe people think they can't listen to me anymore regardless

00:44:02   Alright let's shift from bozos to somebody who's really smart. Did you see this Twitter thread a

00:44:13   Woman who I guess she'd recently left out. Yeah, but Bethany Bongiorno

00:44:20   I'm curious what she's working on because she and another longtime

00:44:24   Apple employee

00:44:28   Just left and are doing something together

00:44:32   But anyway she tweeted

00:44:36   Now that she's out of Apple and can talk

00:44:39   About the iPad launch

00:44:44   And

00:44:48   She told this great great story

00:44:50   One she says that Steve carefully chose the the lark who I don't know how to pronounce this Laura lay

00:44:58   Corbusier chair, but it's that chair that

00:45:02   you know sort of

00:45:05   Very modern leather chair, but there were a sea of them

00:45:12   And each one was carried out so he could inspect it in the stage lighting

00:45:16   Did it have the right coloring was there where in the right places? Did it have the right sit?

00:45:23   When the third-party developers were brought in if this sounds like a nightmare this is the one part

00:45:29   Oh, yeah, when third-party developers were brought in a few weeks before the event they were told

00:45:34   They were only flying in for the day for a meeting and when they found out they would be stuck there for weeks

00:45:41   we had to take them to Target to get more clothes and other necessities.

00:45:45   I guess, you know, I mean, like, yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do, right? I mean, like,

00:45:51   see, this is, you know, I think this is kind of acid, you know, like a real jerk move by Apple,

00:45:55   really. But I mean, I guess if you're the developer, you got to make that decision

00:45:59   on the spot and kind of go, "Well, my family's gonna be really angry with me, but if this,

00:46:06   you know, we're gonna be on stage at the launch of this frickin' device."

00:46:10   It makes me wonder whether that's the sort of thing that is different in the post-Steve Apple

00:46:16   Like was it like without Steve Jobs there?

00:46:19   Would they really do that? Would they really fly people out thinking it's a one-day meeting and then say look you have it

00:46:26   Here's the opportunity you have to say yes or no right now. You can spend the next three weeks and build an app for this device

00:46:32   Which we're not gonna really show you

00:46:35   right, right, which is like

00:46:39   underneath some like thing right I mean like they were covered up right they were like in a case that disguised the real stuff

00:46:45   And if you do this we might

00:46:50   We might show your app on stage if we like

00:46:54   maybe

00:46:57   Yes, or no you in that's amazing

00:47:01   Let's go to target

00:47:04   So the third-party devs were escorted and monitored at all times. We all signed up for shifts even on the weekends

00:47:10   They weren't able to bring their phones into the workroom or use Wi-Fi and the iPads written in stealth cases

00:47:17   So they couldn't see the industrial design before the event

00:47:20   I

00:47:22   knew a little bit about this because a

00:47:24   friend of mine Jennifer Brooke

00:47:27   Was at the New York Times at the time and actually was on stage at the iPad

00:47:33   that the New York Times app was shown.

00:47:35   So I've heard this same story from her perspective

00:47:39   as somebody found out she was spending three weeks

00:47:43   in a windowless room at Apple.

00:47:45   I think that's the other part.

00:47:46   I don't think Bethany Bongiorno mentioned

00:47:48   that it was windowless because they didn't--

00:47:50   - Oh, it had to be.

00:47:51   (laughing)

00:47:51   - 'Cause nobody could look at it and see an iPad.

00:47:54   - Yeah. - It was crazy.

00:47:56   But then here's the one I love.

00:47:57   This is the story, I love this.

00:47:58   At one point, Steve wanted to turn UI kit elements orange,

00:48:02   not just any orange, he wanted a particular orange

00:48:05   from the button on a certain old Sony remote.

00:48:08   We got a bunch of remotes from Sony with orange button

00:48:11   to try and find the right one.

00:48:13   In the end, Steve hated it.

00:48:16   It's the greatest.

00:48:18   When I retweeted it, I said there are entire books

00:48:20   about Steve Jobs that have less information

00:48:23   than that one tweet.

00:48:25   I just love it, and I don't know how close she was

00:48:28   to running out of 280 characters.

00:48:30   But it looks, it's a pretty long tweet,

00:48:34   so I'm guessing it was close.

00:48:36   I don't know if it's forced brevity

00:48:38   because she was running out of characters or not,

00:48:40   but it's such great writing that it's just this whole saga

00:48:44   about this particularly orange

00:48:46   and changing the whole interface.

00:48:48   I guess the idea was that instead of like mostly

00:48:50   a blue interface of the iPhone,

00:48:53   you know, like when you, you know, back pre-Io7,

00:48:57   when you would tap a row, it would light up blue.

00:49:01   Like in a UI table view.

00:49:05   And I'm guessing that he had the idea

00:49:09   to make the iPad like a sort of orange-based interface.

00:49:12   And I think I had a Sony remote control

00:49:15   with the orange that he's talking about.

00:49:17   I know I used to have a Trinitron,

00:49:19   and it did have a very nice orange for the power button.

00:49:22   I kind of think I know which,

00:49:25   maybe not the exact model,

00:49:26   but I know the basic vibe of the orange

00:49:30   that she's talking about.

00:49:31   And I can see how it was a good idea,

00:49:35   but I just love that sentence.

00:49:36   In the end, Steve hated it.

00:49:38   (laughing)

00:49:39   Just nevermind.

00:49:40   And--

00:49:42   - I'm sure that happened a lot.

00:49:44   I mean, you know, it happens in software development.

00:49:49   I mean, you know, like you spend a bunch of time

00:49:51   working on something and then you're like, no.

00:49:53   - Yeah.

00:49:54   - That's no good.

00:49:56   particularly with him, I'm sure. And he had a very particular idea of what he wanted and then

00:50:01   decided that he was wrong in the end. I think that with him too, it was also the case that

00:50:07   things like that could happen closer to the end. At any point, it might be like literally like one

00:50:13   week before they're supposed to unveil it. And he's like, I want the whole thing orange. And then

00:50:17   everybody scrambles for 72 hours, finding old remotes on eBay, and finding an orange,

00:50:24   and then trying to figure out how to translate the orange

00:50:27   from a real rubber button to an onscreen button

00:50:30   that's backlit and to have it come across the same way.

00:50:32   And then they hook it all up and Steve takes a look at it

00:50:35   and says, "I hate it, this is terrible."

00:50:37   (laughing)

00:50:39   I just love it though.

00:50:41   And the thing about Steve Jobs

00:50:43   that I love about that story is the phrase,

00:50:45   I don't know who invented the phrase,

00:50:47   but the idea of strong opinions loosely held.

00:50:52   In other words, if you're gonna have an opinion,

00:50:54   be adamant about it, but also don't be so egotistical

00:50:58   as to refuse to change your mind, right?

00:51:01   Like that was like his unbelievable,

00:51:04   like Tim Cook has said this so many times

00:51:06   and in so many ways, but Steve Jobs' ability

00:51:09   to change his mind might've been the single most genius thing

00:51:14   about the man.

00:51:16   Like he, 'cause, and I think it was infuriating,

00:51:21   it could be at times, because I feel like

00:51:23   at the point where he hates the orange. He's like, who's the moron who spent all this time

00:51:26   making this orange? Why did you waste the time? And it was like, uh, that was you.

00:51:29   Well, people, people always wanted to call him a hypocrite too, or, or, or, you know, contradictory

00:51:37   because he would say, you know, that's, uh, that's, that thing's terrible. Our competitors

00:51:42   had that thing. It's awful. And then, you know, three years later they introduced the same thing.

00:51:45   I had that thought too, when, when these tweets came out and I was rereading them

00:51:52   And I thought, "Hey, you know what? This is the first time I heard a story about Steve Jobs."

00:51:57   And my first reaction was laughter and not sadness. And I thought, "We've kind of crossed."

00:52:04   It's been enough time where it sounds morbid, but it's like I already—my first thought isn't

00:52:16   sadness. It's like, of course, he's dead already. You know, he's, he's filed away as

00:52:20   someone who's no longer with us. I think the chair, the chair thing is sort of the only thing

00:52:25   that gives me, you know, a little bit of that feeling just because he was he was pretty sick.

00:52:29   Yes. Yeah. And he could not, he couldn't stand for the whole thing. I also but at the same time,

00:52:34   they were also pitching it as a device that you're just gonna be sitting on the couch using this

00:52:38   thing. I had a lot of the a lot of the art that they released was just like people sitting around

00:52:45   in the ads, where people sitting around with it, like, we, we joked about this, like, you know,

00:52:50   it was in that, you know, for people who wear jeans, it was in that sort of like,

00:52:55   fold that is on the front of the jeans when you sit down, right? That was the that was the iPad

00:53:02   stand. I, I think it's interesting, because he was sick at the time, it was even a little surprising.

00:53:09   I think he was actually on a medical leave at the time in 2010. So he died.

00:53:15   **Matt Stauffer** Yeah, he might not have been CEO back then.

00:53:18   **Ezra Kleinman** He died at that point. He died in 2011. So he lived about another year and a half.

00:53:24   But he obviously, in hindsight, we now know he wasn't doing well. And he was very thin. And so

00:53:31   we all from the outside suspected might be what actually happened, a recurrence of cancer.

00:53:37   And we've heard stories that, yes, it was physical, because he was frail, that he needed

00:53:46   to sit. He couldn't stand for a whole keynote. But I think that even if he had been healthy,

00:53:51   I think that there still would have been a—they still would have had the chair. I think he

00:53:55   still would have demoed the iPad sitting down. It just wouldn't have been out of necessity.

00:54:00   It would have been, like you said, this is—it's just the posture to use it.

00:54:06   I mean, you can. I mean, I certainly walk around with an iPad a lot. It's, you know,

00:54:13   certainly a better device for walking around with than a laptop, but, you know, it's definitely

00:54:18   more of a sit-down type thing.

00:54:20   Yeah.

00:54:21   What a great story. Trying to think about what else I have on the old agenda.

00:54:28   Were you at that?

00:54:29   Yes, I was there.

00:54:30   Okay.

00:54:31   I started going to, the one that I was lucky for

00:54:36   was the iPhone, the Macworld Expo,

00:54:41   'cause that was, that might have been the first,

00:54:43   it might have been the first Macworld keynote

00:54:45   that I saw in person, like 2006, or I guess it was 2007?

00:54:50   Yeah, 2007 was right around the time

00:54:54   when it was not ridiculous that during Fireball's revenue

00:55:00   could justify me buying an airplane across the country. So I was within, I don't think

00:55:08   I was at the one a year prior to that. I think I was watching on, so it was pretty cool that

00:55:13   I got to see that one. But by 2010, I think I was in regular attendance for all these

00:55:18   events. It was weird. It was fun. The thing I remember specifically about it was being

00:55:23   in the room. And it was a topic of conversation. Do you think Steve Jobs will be here? Do you

00:55:30   think he'll be here? Because we knew he was on leave. So I didn't have my hopes up. I

00:55:36   thought, "Well, probably not." But then when he came out, it was like a moment in

00:55:42   the room because it was a surprise. Nobody knew if it was going to be Steve or not. And

00:55:47   I think he said something to the effect of, "Hey, I didn't want to miss this." Tim's

00:55:51   You know Tim's doing a great job running the company. I didn't want to miss this event though. You know, it's

00:55:56   We're very excited blah blah, you know

00:55:58   Yeah, but there was definitely it was an extra buzz because you know people knew

00:56:04   there was a lot of weird spending like a lot of

00:56:07   crazy speculation about the device before

00:56:10   There was a lot of speculation about the iPhone 2 but I don't think I don't think in the same weird way that that

00:56:17   Ended up being wrong

00:56:20   Yeah, because there was a lot of emphasis placed on publishing

00:56:23   Mmm around the yes had and like is this gonna save publishing? Yeah, and it you know, it certainly didn't know

00:56:31   It's successful device and it's great at many things, but it was not it was not some sort of

00:56:38   Gods into the publishing and it's a very Steve Jobs device

00:56:41   I mean in the backstory is that when he first went on a medical leave in 2009?

00:56:47   I think that might have been when he had the liver transplant

00:56:50   But when he came back to work he was obviously, you know, you know

00:56:57   I don't think it's I don't think it's you have to be a doctor to realize that after a liver transplant

00:57:02   You may not have the highest energy levels. Yeah

00:57:05   and

00:57:07   So he you know, he had limited time, you know

00:57:10   limited focus he couldn't you know, he you know

00:57:15   As you may or may not know Steve Jobs that had his fingers and a lot of a lot of the pies at Apple

00:57:19   When he came back after his liver transplant, he more or less was like let's do this tablet thing

00:57:24   You know and that was that was his baby

00:57:26   Yeah, and you know in hindsight what came out is so so totally Steve Jobs in some ways more than the iPhone I think

00:57:34   Because I think the iPhone is sort of it's so genius but it's for everybody whereas the iPad is a little bit more

00:57:43   Not for everybody, right? Mm-hmm

00:57:45   You know, I think the fact that we're still debating it, you know ten years later how much you know

00:57:52   How much work can you do on an iPad and stuff like that?

00:57:54   I think it but a lot of it, you know goes back to Steve

00:57:56   But you're exactly right about the publishing and that was the weird thing about being at the event to being in the press

00:58:01   Because there was this

00:58:03   consensus up

00:58:05   Leading up to the device that this was great journalism is in so much trouble, you know, all these people, you know

00:58:12   You know, literally it was it's the group of people who were there, the media people

00:58:18   all thought that this device was going to save their jobs. They really did. I mean,

00:58:22   that's not an exaggeration. They it was like, hey, what they did for the it's what they

00:58:27   did, you know, when the music industry was collapsing under piracy, Apple saved them

00:58:31   with the iTunes store, they're going to do that with this. And then we'll go back to

00:58:36   having a safe, secure job for the next 20 years.

00:58:41   And then the event came and went,

00:58:42   and it was really, it was griping people,

00:58:45   and they were like, well, wait a minute.

00:58:46   And then they're replaying the New York Times demo,

00:58:50   'cause they did have a demo,

00:58:53   and the New York Times is a news publication,

00:58:56   but there was so many people talking,

00:58:59   and they were all like, well, wait,

00:59:01   there was nothing there about

00:59:02   how they're gonna make money from this.

00:59:03   And it was like, nope.

00:59:05   Yeah.

00:59:07   That's not their problem.

00:59:08   I mean, it's a nice experience.

00:59:12   I mean, I think reading The New York Times on an iPad

00:59:15   is a very nice experience in their app.

00:59:19   And kind of the best-- has the best parts of reading it

00:59:25   physically as you could do electronically.

00:59:30   Have you noticed this more and more?

00:59:31   I've noticed that-- did you ever hear

00:59:34   an app called Nuzzle and use easy. Yeah, heard of it. Yeah, it's really good app. And I almost

00:59:41   worry that I like it a lot. And I almost worry that it is like in the back of my brain. I've

00:59:48   got this idea that I've got a job that can't be replaced by a robot. Surely my job can't

00:59:58   be right. And it's like there will be days that go by where everything I posted during

01:00:03   Fireball I first became aware of through Nuzzle. Like basically you log in with your Twitter

01:00:09   credentials and you're just a glorified Nuzzle. But it's a really clever idea. So you granted

01:00:17   access to your Twitter account. I'm 99% sure that it does not do anything stupid like tweet

01:00:25   "I'm using Nuzzle, join me." Because I certainly haven't seen it in your history.

01:00:31   I would have deleted it in anger if that had happened. That's always my concern when

01:00:37   you're blogging with Twitter. I'm always—and I have no idea—irrationally afraid of it.

01:00:42   I'm irrationally afraid of some service tweeting one tweet from my account that says

01:00:47   that I'm using it.

01:00:48   But anyway, it just goes through all of your followers and if enough—you can adjust the

01:00:54   thresholds but if like three or four of the people you follow all tweet the same URL,

01:01:00   it bubbles up in your list and sometimes you get notifications and it seems to me like

01:01:04   their hit rate on whether I'm actually glad I got the notification or not is amazing.

01:01:11   It is absolutely amazing. It sounds like something if it was done poorly, it would it would be

01:01:16   infuriating, but it's done well and their hit rate on yes, I'm glad that you gave me

01:01:22   a notification about this news story is amazing. Anyway, the one thing that made me think about

01:01:29   it. As you said, the New York Times is a nice app to read. The downside to Nuzzle is that

01:01:34   when you're in the Nuzzle app, they don't use the modern—I'm going to mess up the

01:01:40   term—but you know how there's a modern way to put WebKit in an iOS app and in the

01:01:45   old way? The old way is just sort of a dumb WebView, and the new one is like you got a

01:01:49   nice little mini version of Safari. So it has your content blockers and et cetera. The

01:01:56   The Nuzzle one is just like an old dumb web view.

01:01:59   And so I see more online ads than I think I usually do

01:02:04   'cause I don't try to block ads.

01:02:05   I just have Odd Blocker set up

01:02:07   just to get rid of annoying ads.

01:02:09   But the way that online ads are now

01:02:13   is like if you just touch it somehow,

01:02:16   it instantly takes you to the thing.

01:02:18   And they put them at the bottom,

01:02:20   which is where the sharing control auto hides, right?

01:02:25   So it's like the world's worst video game, trying to tap at the bottom to bring up the

01:02:32   sharing button but not tap the ad.

01:02:37   And I'm really bad at this video game.

01:02:41   It's like the opposite of those, like tap the monkey.

01:02:43   Yes, it's the opposite.

01:02:44   It is like you don't tap the monkey.

01:02:49   There are times where it seems to me like I didn't tap near the ad and yet somehow here

01:02:53   I am going to this stupid ad that I don't want to yeah, I'm sure the Dutch target is like way beyond I

01:02:59   Find it because it all this all came into my mind when you said it's I do you like reading the New York Times and

01:03:04   In the app and I do too and I find sometimes on their website now, especially on the phone

01:03:08   They have too many things in the middle of an article

01:03:12   Be they ads or like call outs to other

01:03:15   Related news stories, but meanwhile, I just want to keep reading right? I'm reading a story. I'm engaged

01:03:22   it's this is an interesting story and now I've got to scroll past all of this stuff and

01:03:27   figure out where where to rejoin the story and

01:03:31   I feel like their app is better at that than their website

01:03:36   Yeah

01:03:39   Actually, I canceled my subscription

01:03:42   Yeah, because I got mad at them but

01:03:48   How was it as nightmarish as people say the the downside to the New York Times is

01:03:53   Do they have an iTunes version or can you only subscribe through their website?

01:03:57   You well or call yeah, you can subscribe to the website or call I don't

01:04:04   Pretty almost positive. You cannot subscribe through iTunes, right? So

01:04:08   The New York Times has a no you get it. They make it very easy to sign up and they make it apparently very very hard

01:04:16   Comcast right yeah, was it hard you had to have to call the trick is that you so yeah

01:04:21   I mean you they say that you you have to call them and then you know be berated by somebody

01:04:26   To you know like trying to cajole you into into staying a subscriber

01:04:32   But you can also do it through web chat ah

01:04:35   That was right, so I did it. I did it that way

01:04:39   And and you still get you still get them. They still try and you know they are for you

01:04:45   They apologize profusely or you know, like maybe you've misunderstood what you read about the you know, the nice Nazi gentleman

01:04:51   But you know, here's you know, like how about if we give you like a year of like, you know

01:04:58   I'll reduce rate or something like that. It's like

01:05:00   That's one Nazi too many one is one too many

01:05:06   Did you watch the the State of the Union

01:05:11   Trumpy I try

01:05:14   There is not enough liquor in the house for me to do that and there's a lot of liquor in this house

01:05:19   I missed it live I was

01:05:23   Traveling and I did it I tivo did I had a TV. I requested that she tivo

01:05:29   Tivo and

01:05:34   cracked open a beer

01:05:36   and I started I started just a beer and I started watching and

01:05:42   uh i was okay with the the five minutes later you're shaking martini i i was okay with the opening

01:05:50   and and it's like you know i'm i don't i don't like the guy i i didn't like george w bush either

01:05:58   and but i always watched george w i always watch the state of the union i feel like it's something

01:06:02   you know the civic responsibility yeah civic responsibility and when george w bush would

01:06:07   get up there and dick cheney's behind him because the vice president sits behind him

01:06:12   I would think, "I don't like these guys." But I thought to myself, "This is the nature

01:06:18   of a democracy, though. I've got decades ahead, and there will be times when there's

01:06:24   a president who I like and respect, and there will be presidents who I disagree with, and

01:06:29   that's just the way it goes." So I was okay with that part of it. Like, I don't

01:06:33   like Trump. I don't like Mike Pence. I think he's really weird. I think they're doing

01:06:38   bad things. But the whole intro part, you know, like, here he is, President of the United

01:06:43   States, and he comes in and people are clapping and he's soaking it up. But then he starts

01:06:47   talking. And then he opened his mouth. He he did this thing, Amy, why Amy was already

01:06:54   asleep, but she watched some of it live and she had to stop to I don't know how far I

01:06:59   got into I think I got about 20 minutes, I had to turn it off. And it was it was either

01:07:03   that or like you said, go make a martini. Bush used to make me angry too. But I did

01:07:08   watch a few of his at least, and I would, you know, like, yell at the television and stuff like that,

01:07:13   but I could watch him. But I can't even listen to him.

01:07:18   The thing that got me—and Amy noted the same thing, and she's like, "Did you notice this thing

01:07:22   where he'd say something and it would be an applause line for, like, the Republicans in

01:07:27   the audience, and they would break into the speech with applause, and when that would happen,

01:07:35   he would back away from the podium and clap himself. And you can just imagine the way,

01:07:41   you know, like the Trumpy way that he like kind of takes two steps back and gets a smirk on his

01:07:46   face and he starts clapping for himself. He clapped in his own speech. Like that. I couldn't

01:07:53   take it. I had to shut it off. It was just, it was torture. I really, and the other thing that

01:08:01   got me was it was it was a bizarre combination of he would say things that it's clearly not

01:08:08   that's not what you're doing you're you you just i don't know you say you're protecting the

01:08:14   environment you're not actually actually you're the epa chief is actually like ripping out

01:08:19   regulations to keep water clean you're not doing selling off public you know vast swaths of public

01:08:25   land right you're saying that you're doing this great work for the public land and the environment

01:08:30   and you're actually doing the opposite. And that made it, I couldn't take it.

01:08:33   And then the other thing is that he would say things that it's like, yes,

01:08:36   that's exactly why I hate you.

01:08:38   Like he was very clear about, uh,

01:08:44   non white people, not, not being welcome. Like he had,

01:08:48   that's just the part where I had to, I had to shut it off.

01:08:51   It was talking about immigration and he says something like, uh,

01:08:54   this is for citizens,

01:08:57   But he's complaining about the fact that immigrants, citizens of the United States who are immigrants

01:09:02   from other countries are allowed to bring family members over.

01:09:07   He's like, "They're bringing over all of these people."

01:09:09   But these are—

01:09:10   And he, you know, he lied too, because he was, he expanded the list of people that you're

01:09:15   allowed to bring over.

01:09:16   And this is, there's another, there's a great Twitter exchange about this today.

01:09:19   Like there's a woman who said that he lied and, you know, because that's not true that

01:09:24   these all these other you know like he's more different distant relatives you're allowed to

01:09:28   bring in and some somebody actually actually heard her actually at heard i can't say that right

01:09:37   obviously um and uh she just replied i'm a fucking immigration lawyer oh my god that's so great

01:09:45   well but do you really do what do you really know about immigration yeah right right man

01:09:52   - Clearly you know nothing about this,

01:09:55   says guy with 18 followers on Twitter.

01:09:57   - Right, actually.

01:09:59   Oh my God.

01:10:02   All right, let me take a break here

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01:12:48   Anything else? What else is going on? How about the Super Bowl? You excited about the

01:12:51   Super Bowl?

01:12:53   No.

01:12:54   It's weird being a non-Eagles fan in Philadelphia with the Eagles in the Super Bowl. The city

01:13:03   is nuts and deserves it.

01:13:05   Oh, I would imagine.

01:13:07   Because Philadelphia is sort of a long-suffering town.

01:13:11   The last big team championship was the Phillies in 2008.

01:13:16   And then prior to that, I swear to God, I think it was, I'm not making this up, I think

01:13:20   it was the 1983 Sixers.

01:13:23   So it's quite a long stretch there.

01:13:26   Whereas when I was a kid, Philly was like championship city.

01:13:30   The Flyers won in '77, the Phillies won in '80, the Sixers were fantastic every year.

01:13:37   won in '83. And then they had this long stretch. And the Eagles have never won a Super Bowl.

01:13:42   They've won—the weird thing about the Super Bowl is that they only started calling it the Super

01:13:48   Bowl 52 years ago. Prior to that, it was just the NFL championship game. So the Eagles won that

01:13:53   at some point in the '60s, but the '60s is a long time ago.

01:13:57   So a bit. And the Patriots, I think the Patriots have won once or at least. So there's a very

01:14:10   interesting, you know, Boston and Philly are good natural rival towns. It's not quite up

01:14:16   to the level of like New York and Philly. New York and Philly was pretty, it's pretty

01:14:21   always pretty exciting. But Boston's pretty good. It's such a strange mixture of one team

01:14:29   that is literally there every single year.

01:14:32   Yeah, right, right. And yeah, I mean, and now you I mean, it's funny is like, I think

01:14:37   for some reason, Hank has latched on to the Patriots. I don't I don't I think maybe it's

01:14:41   because his cousin who he loves, my brother lives in Vermont, and he, so my nephew tends

01:14:49   two like Boston area teams so he's a big Red Sox fan and um and I don't I don't know if he's like

01:14:55   much of a Patriots fan frankly though um but I think maybe Hank has like uh

01:14:59   got the gotten the idea that he is um and I also think it's a it's just like he knows that it's

01:15:05   something that makes people mad so so he likes to say you know like boy I hope the Patriots

01:15:12   beat so you know whoever um so he's he's rooting for the he's rooting for the Patriots which is you

01:15:18   you know, I think clearly the wrong team to root for but it's a good feeling I my

01:15:22   Beloved Dallas Cowboys used to be that team, you know in the 90s

01:15:26   They were almost unbeaten

01:15:28   The only team that could beat him was the San Francisco 49ers

01:15:30   and then whichever there was like a five-year run in there where whoever won the NFC championship between

01:15:36   San Fran and Dallas would then go on to steamroll

01:15:39   The Buffalo Bills. Yes. Yeah

01:15:47   It's such a strange dichotomy though. The Eagles fans are so desperate for a championship and and I honestly I it's a football town

01:15:55   I think of all the teams in Philly the one that has the most fans is the Eagles

01:15:59   People are nuts for the Eagles here. They're in particularly nuts for this team, right any Eagles team

01:16:05   It was going to Super Bowl would be popular

01:16:07   But they really there seem to be some characters on this team that really that the city just loves. Yeah

01:16:12   There's a lot of Eagles fans in New Jersey - Oh tons

01:16:15   I mean like I would think that they're more I don't know the demographics

01:16:18   But I would think there are more Eagles fans in New Jersey than there are like Giants fans. Ah

01:16:21   That's you know, it's exactly what you think geographically, you know, there's parts of it

01:16:26   So just you know, they're North this yeah, you know further north of New Jersey is you know

01:16:31   It's like which networks do you get you get do you get New York channels or Philly channels?

01:16:35   the lousy parts of New Jersey for the Giants

01:16:38   parts of the Eagles I

01:16:43   Forget his first name, but it's you know, you know how he longed the TV announcer and used to please we were kids

01:16:48   He was a all pro and the Raiders. His son is on the team. I think he's Chris long

01:16:53   I think that's his name, but he donated his his whole salary to like schools

01:16:59   He's you know, like in the tenth year of his career and he's you know, he's like I've made tons of money playing football

01:17:05   So here I'll just give my money only donate my old salary this year to like schools

01:17:09   Like people love this guy, of course, right? I mean, that's amazing. What a pretty cool thing to do

01:17:15   So anyway, I fear for the soul of this city if they if they lose

01:17:20   In the property, I don't think

01:17:24   If they win, I think that it might I think the property might be more of a problem if they win

01:17:30   I think that if they lose people are just it's gonna just crush their they won't have the the spirit to go riot

01:17:35   Yeah

01:17:37   usually yeah usually i mean the one the one uh counterexample i can think of that rule is is uh

01:17:43   vancouver right didn't vancouver lost the oh yeah yeah championship yes like trash to the place

01:17:49   yeah really to really trash the place i mean like like wow i mean like like calling it a riot was

01:17:55   not an exaggeration that was bad news i mean and i don't get i know i don't i don't sanction either

01:18:02   one, really. But when I kind of understand—I feel like I understand the winning thing a little bit

01:18:07   more, maybe? Which doesn't—maybe that doesn't make sense.

01:18:10   Ted

01:18:10   Dave: Did you see the thing where they have to grease the poles here in Philly? The Crisco

01:18:15   cops? It's like an Italian thing. It comes from South Philly. In Italy, there's a tradition

01:18:27   of if there's some holiday in Italy, like in the Godfather, there's going to be singing

01:18:35   and dancing in a parade. And one of the traditional contests is like climbing up a greased pole.

01:18:45   Who can climb to the top of a greased pole? So the fact that the cops are greasing the

01:18:50   poles, that's not really stopping anybody. I think I'm stealing Paul Kefas's—

01:18:54   It's just more of a challenge.

01:18:55   Paul Kefas has tweeted me a thing about how it's like a tradition in South Philly Italian

01:19:01   festivals to climb a greased pole. He's like, "They train for this!"

01:19:04   (laughing)

01:19:06   - Good luck with that.

01:19:10   - I remember when the Phillies won in 2008,

01:19:14   I went out and the big street here is Broad Street

01:19:17   where people go to celebrate.

01:19:20   And there was a young man who was at the top of a light pole

01:19:23   and there was a cop standing at the foot of the base,

01:19:27   a woman, and I said to her, I said,

01:19:29   "Are you just waiting for him to come down

01:19:30   "so you can write him a ticket?"

01:19:31   And she goes, "Yep."

01:19:32   And I was like, and you're just going to wait. And she's like, yep. I told him not to go

01:19:38   up. She was like, I gave him a chance and he, that's great. I've got a theory. Here's

01:19:46   my theory. My, my, my, are you going to watch the game? Do you watch the Superbowl? Yeah,

01:19:51   we'll probably, yeah, we usually, we usually watch just because it's just, and yeah, so

01:19:57   may actually go over to Karen's parents' house or their apartment and watch with them.

01:20:03   Here's my theory. I come up with a theory about why the Patriots will lose every year,

01:20:08   and I'm often wrong, much to the detriment of my wagering. But I've got it.

01:20:14   That's why you had to go to the bank.

01:20:16   That's why I had to go to the bank. I think I've got this one figured out. We'll see how this

01:20:21   stands out. But here's my theory, Jon. My theory is that I salute the Patriots for being very good

01:20:27   every year. And that's hard to do in any sport. And it's particularly hard in the NFL. The NFL

01:20:33   is a sport, even if you're not a fan. It's a sport where teams come out of nowhere. Like in the team

01:20:38   that was good last year might not be good this year, just one year to the next. The Eagles were

01:20:43   like seven and nine last year. This year, they were 13 and three. They're heading to the Super

01:20:47   Bowl. It happens all the time. Somehow the New England Patriots under Bill Belichick and Tom

01:20:52   Brady. God damn it, they're good every year. So I salute them for that. No other team has a stretch

01:20:59   like they've had in the last 15 years. But my theory is that the price of being very good every

01:21:07   year means that they are never great. Because to be great, you have to load up for one year,

01:21:13   and then you lose the guys next year. I looked up there, the Belichick-Brady teams, the final

01:21:19   score of their Super Bowls, win or lose. It's like three, three, four, three point losses to the

01:21:26   Giants, a four point win. Every game is three or four points. It's always close. They never have

01:21:31   one of those teams that loads up and wins 55 to 10 or something like that. So that's my theory,

01:21:38   is that they're always in close games. You're going to try and beat the spread?

01:21:41   Well, the Eagles are getting four and a half points. So I think it's a sound financial

01:21:45   investment to wager on the eagles. And even if you think, even if you think,

01:21:52   you can't bet on eagles because somehow, some way, Belichick and Brady, those two evil geniuses,

01:21:59   are going to find a way to win. You might be right, but they'll find a way to win by like

01:22:02   three points. Right. So that's my famous last words. So okay. All right. I will look forward

01:22:09   With interest

01:22:11   John moltz, thank you so much for being on the show good luck this Sunday

01:22:18   Everybody can get all the moltz they want at

01:22:22   Where you got the turn this car around turning this car around and the rebound and moltz at Twitter moltz

01:22:30   good old moltz