00:00:26 ◼ ► in the can and instead here we are recording on Friday the 29th of January and we've got
00:00:32 ◼ ► it all all laid out in front of us. It's the future and it's still December still 17. Let's
00:00:46 ◼ ► it's even just summarizing it. It's complicated enough. Like I've had trouble writing headlines
00:01:30 ◼ ► back to Earth so that they can re-enter the atmosphere and splash down and survive. And
00:01:37 ◼ ► they've been going for days with almost everything shut off because otherwise they wouldn't have
00:01:43 ◼ ► enough resources to get back. So they've shut off a bunch of stuff, but they have to turn
00:01:46 ◼ ► it back on. They have to turn on the main module, the command module, in order to land.
00:02:08 ◼ ► and in what order, because they know how much power they can get out of the battery. And
00:02:14 ◼ ► If it goes above a certain number, the needle kind of pins and everybody in the control
00:02:32 ◼ ► Apple's engineers were looking at a battery and the limits of a taxed battery, an older
00:02:46 ◼ ► on in order to stay below that moment where the system looks at the battery and realizes
00:02:54 ◼ ► it cannot get enough voltage?" and goes, "I'm shutting down," which is what this is all
00:04:08 ◼ ► frame rate. Who knows what else they do? I don't know. Among other things, they haven't
00:04:27 ◼ ► thing that that this whole saga seems to be about is that when certain things are happening
00:04:55 ◼ ► that they you get less that like the easy way to think about it is that I have an older
00:04:58 ◼ ► iPhone the batteries depleted I get less battery I have to charge more throughout the day to
00:05:03 ◼ ► keep it going but it's not as simple as that it it's no longer able to provide a peak sustained
00:05:26 ◼ ► birdie but I did talk to somebody who understands electrical stuff and batteries and who said
00:05:29 ◼ ► it's about it's all about impedance and if you look at the tech note which Apple posted
00:05:35 ◼ ► it gets into the nitty-gritty the word impedance is never mentioned in the letter to customers
00:05:39 ◼ ► right but in the tech note it says one attribute that affects instantaneous power delivery
00:05:45 ◼ ► is the battery's impedance, which is basically like how hard it is to get electrons out of
00:05:50 ◼ ► the battery. And the older a battery is, also the colder a battery is, or if it's got a
00:05:57 ◼ ► low charge, the impedance is less, which means that the electrons flow slower, and when you
00:06:05 ◼ ► need to pull power from it, the voltage drops like that, just because, just by definition,
00:06:14 ◼ ► power can't flow out as quickly. And that's what this is all about is in an older battery,
00:06:20 ◼ ► but also in a cold battery if you're in someplace where it's, you know, minus 10. If you've
00:06:30 ◼ ► which is that that's like your battery's acting like it's old, whether it is or not. And that's
00:06:35 ◼ ► what this is all about. Batteries get older, the impedance rises, and it becomes harder
00:06:40 ◼ ► to maintain a higher voltage and that totally goes against the metaphor that we've all kind
00:06:45 ◼ ► of I think I don't want to blame us for this because it's the makers of electronic devices
00:06:50 ◼ ► have sold us this metaphor because this metaphor is easy to understand for people who are not
00:06:56 ◼ ► electrical engineers like Apple Apple wants everything to be a black box right Apple wants
00:07:01 ◼ ► everything to be magic but the blackest black box of all I think is maybe the battery where
00:07:17 ◼ ► you can't keep charging a battery that's not, that's full. And if you keep trying to charge
00:07:29 ◼ ► at a high degree. Like when it gets to 100%, it stops charging and there's a certain amount
00:07:33 ◼ ► it's allowed to drop before it starts charging it again, but it always says it's 100%. And
00:07:43 ◼ ► said 94%, you'd be like, "What the hell, Apple?" But they're doing that in the background because
00:07:48 ◼ ► of battery health issues. So this is a little bit like that. And up until this point, the
00:07:59 ◼ ► it with people in my family a lot, which is on an older phone, you are at 40 percent and
00:08:07 ◼ ► it shuts off. And you say, "What the hell? Why did it just shut off if I've got 40 percent?
00:08:17 ◼ ► it's older, it's getting low on charge, and it reached a point where it couldn't provide
00:08:21 ◼ ► enough power for the system, and so your phone shut down. And, you know, that's bad, right?
00:08:32 ◼ ► do to keep that phone from from shutting down by flipping all those all those switches.
00:08:37 ◼ ► Yeah, I I definitely saw that I saw it personally once or twice. It was long enough ago and
00:08:56 ◼ ► is in the news. I think if I'm recalling correctly, it was my wife Amy who was seeing it more
00:09:07 ◼ ► often and she was an adherent of the display, the percentage in the status bar alongside
00:09:15 ◼ ► the icon and knew. And that's a popular feature. It's almost to me like it was always a curious
00:09:25 ◼ ► thing to see people in my family who had that on as as just like I often say on the on the
00:09:33 ◼ ► podcast that I'm an inveterate snoop at looking at people's screens like on airplanes you know
00:09:40 ◼ ► like I don't like want to read their email I just like to see what they're doing and I one thing I
00:09:46 ◼ ► would I always look at is like do typical people have that battery percentage on because a I think
00:09:51 ◼ ► think it's an interesting feature. We can talk about it. But B, it's proof that typical
00:09:57 ◼ ► people do turn on non default settings, you know, like there's a lot of people, and there
00:10:07 ◼ ► think the iPhone has a couple of features that that make it obvious at a glance whether
00:10:10 ◼ ► somebody has done something that battery percentage is one. The scaling factor is another I found
00:10:17 ◼ ► I noticed that my mom who has a six, either six or success, I forget. But she has it set
00:10:23 ◼ ► to the zoomed mode where it's running like the se sized user interface system wide, you
00:10:29 ◼ ► know, and she's older, and it's obvious why. But I thought that was interesting, because
00:10:33 ◼ ► that wasn't something I helped her set up. And the battery percentage is one. But anyway,
00:10:38 ◼ ► that meant that when you hit this shot, as my long, long way of saying that, when people's
00:10:43 ◼ ► phones would shut off, they often knew exactly what the percentage was before it shut down.
00:10:47 ◼ ► And they knew that it was at like 40% or something like that. Exactly. And it just felt like
00:11:09 ◼ ► powered car runs exactly the same with a full tank of gas as it does with the last gasps
00:11:24 ◼ ► the same speed with the same amount of energy in the pedal and the volume of the radio is
00:11:31 ◼ ► exactly the same. The headlights are the same brightness. It is an easy metaphor, but it
00:11:39 ◼ ► really is wrong. And I think the other factor that shows this with that when the iPhones
00:11:44 ◼ ► were unexpectedly powering down, is that it, to my knowledge, it was never happening to
00:11:52 ◼ ► people with like a full charge. It was always like, "Oh, I had like 50% left or 40% left."
00:12:00 ◼ ► And it's it's what you mentioned before, which is that at that point, when the batteries
00:12:04 ◼ ► at 40%, it's it's not just that it only has half the storage that you know, half the energy
00:12:09 ◼ ► that it had at a full charge, it's that it's no longer able to provide as much energy and
00:12:16 ◼ ► And you get voltage droop, which is basically under load, it's trying to pull a lot of power
00:12:28 ◼ ► I can't can't can't operate without voltage right it can't so what does it do it either shuts down or it reduces
00:12:35 ◼ ► aggressively reduces power consumption, which is very clearly what the mandate was for the
00:12:42 ◼ ► And and if anything I think it's hard for people to get there to come to grips with this because
00:12:55 ◼ ► literally, you know, it pollutes the air, a messy analog system. And we think of these digital
00:13:07 ◼ ► devices as being so neat and clean, you know, that it's either providing energy or not the battery
00:13:15 ◼ ► either has, you know, it's all binary, it's, it's, it is, you know, that there are no shades of gray,
00:13:20 ◼ ► the battery either has a charger, it doesn't have a charge. And if it has a charge, it's on and
00:13:25 ◼ ► everything runs and if it doesn't then everything nothing you know it needs to be charged that's it
00:13:31 ◼ ► but that's not the truth it's actually really more of an analog ugly you know what does apple
00:13:39 ◼ ► say in the tech note a couple times they use the word chemically chemically degraded is that what
00:13:45 ◼ ► they say chemical chemical age happens a lot yeah like a high chemical age where it's just that's
00:13:54 ◼ ► what we think of as it's an old battery. It's not as good. And these are rechargeable batteries,
00:13:59 ◼ ► which is also different chemistry from back when we just used sort of like single-use batteries.
00:14:02 ◼ ► So the chemistry is different. And even as people, you and I, who have been using Apple laptops for
00:14:09 ◼ ► a while, the battery technology being used in them has changed over time. We used to be told
00:14:16 ◼ ► every so often you needed to deplete your battery and then recharge it because otherwise it would
00:14:23 ◼ ► would be like it would have a battery memory and it would and then at some point they're
00:14:28 ◼ ► like no no no don't do that anymore. That's no longer the case right because they changed
00:16:04 ◼ ► It's for not communicating what was going on and why and leaving customers to be confused
00:16:20 ◼ ► such a perfect storm of things where there's been this trope for years that Apple purposefully,
00:16:32 ◼ ► true because new versions of iOS tend to come out, always come out, the major new versions
00:16:37 ◼ ► of iOS are tied to the release of new iPhones, iOS 12 will come out next September when new
00:16:42 ◼ ► iPhones come out. I mean, you can pretty much, you know, make a pretty safe wager on that.
00:16:50 ◼ ► But the theory, you know, is that app when new iPhones come out, Apple issues a software
00:16:55 ◼ ► update that purposefully slows down two year old iPhones, so that owners of two year olds
00:17:01 ◼ ► old iPhones think, well, I should go buy the new iPhone because my now my iPhone is slow.
00:17:06 ◼ ► And, you know, I've been saying no, this isn't what they do or that, you know, I'm not denying
00:17:11 ◼ ► that your phone might be slow after an update. If you know, I'm not, you know, you're the
00:17:19 ◼ ► For years, we you know, we in the Apple punditry industry have been saying no, Apple doesn't
00:17:31 ◼ ► your iPhone deliberately sounds an awful lot like the thing that everybody was paranoid
00:17:39 ◼ ► And, and I mean, Apple, okay, so I think there are two, so one side of this is, look, the
00:18:28 ◼ ► like phones without removable batteries were new and terrifying and it was one of the knocks
00:18:34 ◼ ► on the original iPhone. And they said, "Okay, it's like a complete cycle. It's very different."
00:18:40 ◼ ► They said a lot of things that are completely accurate in the story from July 2007. You
00:18:47 ◼ ► to hold the charge over time. It won't necessarily evaporate in two years, but the fact is that
00:18:53 ◼ ► sooner or later the iPhone's battery will die. And that's not wrong. But what Jaws said
00:18:59 ◼ ► to me in that story and I quote him directly is, "Most iPhone users will realize, as most
00:19:05 ◼ ► iPod customers realized, that they never needed to replace their batteries." And what he's
00:19:10 ◼ ► really saying is, "You're going to be able to use this even two years from now and it'll
00:19:20 ◼ ► one of Apple's challenges is they didn't communicate what they were doing in degrading performance
00:19:23 ◼ ► and why it was actually a good thing because it meant, "Congratulations, your phone's not
00:19:26 ◼ ► going to automatically shut down. But I think Apple, with its design philosophy of trying
00:19:42 ◼ ► kind of operate gracefully into a third year. I think Apple is guilty of thinking of how
00:19:54 ◼ ► look at the performance problems people report in a two or three year old phone when they
00:19:59 ◼ ► do an iOS update and I feel like I don't think Apple is intentionally sabotaging old phones,
00:20:04 ◼ ► but I also don't think Apple makes it a priority to make sure that new iOS versions run well
00:20:15 ◼ ► terms of prioritization. And leaving aside Apple retail, which is absolutely has incentives
00:20:26 ◼ ► sort of natural. They would have to do a lot to kind of push away that basic incentive,
00:20:31 ◼ ► which is there people at Apple retail, I mean, it's their job to sell products, right? And
00:20:35 ◼ ► because they're also the manufacturer, that all gets mixed up. So I guess what I'm saying
00:20:39 ◼ ► is Apple bears blame here in the short term because of, I think, how this was not communicated.
00:20:46 ◼ ► But in the longer term, they made some prioritizations and they made some design decisions. And what
00:20:51 ◼ ► we've ended up with is a world where a three-year-old iPhone, that third year you own an iPhone.
00:20:57 ◼ ► I can say this because lots of people in my family use, I generally use a new iPhone or
00:21:07 ◼ ► every three years, and I've seen the performance on a three-year-old iPhone and it's bad. Like
00:21:11 ◼ ► the battery goes bad, the performance slows down, and Apple's decisions kind of have led
00:21:19 ◼ ► to that point. So, you know, it's not just the communication issue, it's some priorities
00:21:32 ◼ ► great experience either. Yeah, and it, I, the replay, replaceable user replaceable batteries
00:21:41 ◼ ► used to be, there was no such thing as a phone that didn't have one. I mean, it was, it was
00:21:46 ◼ ► always you know, you take off the back plate of the phone and there's a battery and that's
00:21:58 ◼ ► iPod iPods never had user replaceable batteries either. Totally. And again, the conspiracy
00:22:13 ◼ ► find like the little access hatch for a battery to be ungainly. And they enjoy, they enjoy being able
00:22:21 ◼ ► to, I mean, they can't prevent third party battery replacements. In fact, people, you know, do it
00:22:28 ◼ ► every day. But by having it be sealed up, it certainly encourages people to only replace the
00:22:34 ◼ ► battery through the Apple Store. And that the $79 charge that they were charging for it for years
00:22:41 ◼ ► was that one of the reasons they seal it up is so that they can make $79 on replacements.
00:22:48 ◼ ► Tim Cynova Yeah, and it makes it that easier to just upsell somebody to a new phone and
00:23:11 ◼ ► possible to design bigger batteries, smaller devices. And it's because if it's user replaceable,
00:23:20 ◼ ► it has to be a somewhat regular shape, meaning some kind of rectangle, and there's contacts
00:23:34 ◼ ► I think, you know, there has to and there has to be some slack so you know, you can get a finger
00:23:40 ◼ ► in there to pop it out and stuff. Whereas if you seal it up, and you if you look just go to the
00:23:46 ◼ ► iFixit teardowns for like the iPhone 10. And you can see the battery is like an L shape. It's not
00:23:51 ◼ ► a regular shape because they, you know, figured out it's almost more like a liquid thinking of
00:23:58 ◼ ► it as a liquid where they any air gaps in there is a possible space where they can put more battery.
00:24:04 ◼ ► Famously, they even showed they had one of those nice 3d teardown fly throughs of I think it was
00:24:13 ◼ ► a MacBook Air, but one of the MacBooks of recent years where they showed how they created this
00:24:20 ◼ ► battery in almost like a theater like stair step design that right that's right literally
00:24:27 ◼ ► it's it's molded around every every bit of open space that's left in the product in order
00:24:33 ◼ ► to fill it up and so it's not a single module it's like a whole bunch of things in a stair
00:24:37 ◼ ► step and I just I just replaced a battery on a MacBook Air because my my old 2010 MacBook
00:25:17 ◼ ► and the iPhone it's even even more like that. Yeah. And you know, batteries are better than
00:25:23 ◼ ► they used to be. You know, like you spoke about the old days when there was like, almost
00:25:27 ◼ ► like an exercise regimen for your MacBook or I guess, old enough, you know, your powerbook,
00:25:32 ◼ ► our book, yeah, power book batteries where you you're supposed to deplete it every once
00:25:36 ◼ ► in a while. And you I remember the other thing too, is you were you. And I ran into this,
00:25:43 ◼ ► I ran into this with a power book that I kept mostly at my desk connected to it. It just
00:25:49 ◼ ► was the, you know, I had a great power book. I almost never needed to take it away from
00:25:55 ◼ ► the desk and it had a nice big display. So I was running it on power. And, and it actually
00:26:02 ◼ ► wrecked the battery like by never running it on battery power. When I didn't then needed
00:26:07 ◼ ► to, I got like an alert in the up in the system bar that, you know, up in the menu bar that
00:26:40 ◼ ► phones do this now, the right way to do that in your old time would be to surreptitiously
00:26:46 ◼ ► take you off power and drain the battery and tell you everything's fine and you're plugged
00:26:52 ◼ ► in but it's actually running on battery and draining the battery and it gets to the bottom
00:26:55 ◼ ► and then it flips it back on and charges back up and you are none the wiser, which is great
00:27:00 ◼ ► except for one scenario which is that moment where you need to unplug and take it. If it's
00:27:11 ◼ ► reasons. And that's always been a challenge with this kind of intelligent battery stuff
00:27:16 ◼ ► in the background is users want to know what's up and if you lie to them and they notice,
00:27:26 ◼ ► to make it all seem easy, but there's actually, it's really complicated in the background.
00:27:32 ◼ ► And you know, the fact is that if you're a user and you get surprised, that's not good,
00:27:42 ◼ ► All right, let me take a break here. I want to run nowhere near done with this. But there's
00:27:47 ◼ ► no reason not to take a break. I think one of our good friends and it's our good friends
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00:28:06 ◼ ► materials. Look, it's we're recording after Christmas. Christmas is over. Last time fracture
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00:28:16 ◼ ► you. I said order them now because they get backed up. There's really no reason to talk about fracture
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00:28:26 ◼ ► because they are. They're fantastic gifts. They really are. But there's gifts, you know,
00:28:30 ◼ ► holidays aren't the only time of the year you give gifts. So keep them in mind, you know,
00:28:33 ◼ ► Mother's Day, it's months away. All of these holidays, people's birthdays, really, it's such
00:28:39 ◼ ► a great gift. And it I'm a terrible, terrible gift giver. I really am. I never know what to get
00:28:47 ◼ ► anybody. I really don't like buying like, retail products for family members. I really don't know.
00:28:58 ◼ ► giving them gifts other than fractures, fractures, like pictures of my son for grandparents.
00:29:14 ◼ ► It's like, well, what do you how do you top that? You know, because you can't give them the same
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00:30:28 ◼ ► entire sponsor read with my iPhone in my hand to remember that where I wanted to go when
00:30:33 ◼ ► I came back, which is that when we're talking about where Apple has to take the blame in
00:31:06 ◼ ► that most iPads that might be that old aren't even eligible for iOS 10 because they have
00:31:14 ◼ ► bigger batteries. I mean, obviously they have bigger batteries because they're much bigger
00:31:18 ◼ ► devices. But because they're bigger devices, even when the battery has two years of decline,
00:31:36 ◼ ► need so that you don't, you know, the device doesn't shut down. And I think the conclusion
00:31:43 ◼ ► and I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer, but I think it seems obvious that if iPhones
00:31:49 ◼ ► were to some degree thicker, and that thicker, thicker structure was used to put bigger batteries
00:32:15 ◼ ► like a window they're shooting for in terms of when you take this thing out of the box,
00:32:21 ◼ ► how long can you use it on a charge like they have and they have user data to back that
00:32:27 ◼ ► are other people who will leave in the morning and work a long day and are working it hard
00:32:31 ◼ ► and want to run it all the way through. And they have some somewhere in there, they have
00:32:35 ◼ ► a profile that they're trying to hit. It's very clear. They will try to hit it with every
00:32:39 ◼ ► phone. Now new phones have a little bit more, but for a while there, they were really like
00:32:44 ◼ ► they had a it was not not something you could use heavily all day and get through the day.
00:32:53 ◼ ► of what they were counting on. The so the more battery you put in the more weight there
00:33:10 ◼ ► that served them well even though not great I think iPhone battery life always there could
00:33:15 ◼ ► always be more but like well enough they wanted to optimize for thin thinness and lightness
00:33:25 ◼ ► there's no headroom there. It's like an Apple Watch. I feel this way about my Apple Watch
00:33:31 ◼ ► Series 3, which is I can use it all day and do a couple of workouts and do all sorts of things.
00:33:36 ◼ ► It's like I can't kill that battery in a day. It takes me a day and a half to kill that battery.
00:33:41 ◼ ► That's good because in three years that battery is not going to be as good, and I'm still going
00:33:44 ◼ ► to be able to get through a day. And the iPhone hasn't had that kind of headroom. Very clearly,
00:33:48 ◼ ► they're right on the edge where as soon as the battery starts to degrade after year two,
00:33:52 ◼ ► it becomes a problem because there's just no room for for for uh you know for error. Yeah and I'm
00:34:00 ◼ ► I've been thinking about this as this scandal I don't know if scandal is too strong a word but
00:34:06 ◼ ► let's say scandal has has been uh erupting over the last two weeks and I the thing I one of the
00:34:14 ◼ ► of the things I keep coming back to is that my simplistic gas tank analogy, it just trying
00:34:23 ◼ ► to flush it from my brain because it doesn't work. And one of the ways is that and I think
00:34:29 ◼ ► what Apple has run into here is it's not just that iPhones have gotten thinner in recent
00:36:02 ◼ ► The A11 has what, three high performance cores and three efficiency cores and it can run
00:36:12 ◼ ► And that's leaving aside driving the screen, you know, heavy graphics performance, having
00:36:47 ◼ ► But since they were primarily audio players, I mean, obviously, once they could play video,
00:37:49 ◼ ► be wrong. Right, and it's easier. It's a better metaphor. It's a good metaphor. People understand
00:37:57 ◼ ► it. Apple and tech companies in general, they have to trade in metaphors because a lot of this stuff
00:38:04 ◼ ► is way too complicated for people to understand who are just lay people. And they don't want to
00:38:10 ◼ ► understand it. And so if you can find a good metaphor and you can hang your hat on it, then
00:38:15 ◼ ► do it, right? The problem is that this phenomenon forces us to understand that that metaphor
00:38:25 ◼ ► Yeah. Boy, did Apple take it on the chin from the press and continues to. Even the apology
00:38:36 ◼ ► yesterday, you know, has generated some really interesting coverage from the mainstream media.
00:38:53 ◼ ► in Australia and on Australian TV. What do they call those banners at the bottom of the
00:38:59 ◼ ► screen? There's like a word for it, like chyron. Like the little scrolling banner at the bottom
00:39:04 ◼ ► of TV news had this headline, I swear to God, not making this up. US colon Apple apologizes
00:39:12 ◼ ► for iPhone battery scam. Wow. That's the actual Chiron at the bottom of the TV. And again,
00:39:25 ◼ ► I we I think we're being very adamant here, you and I that Apple is there are things you
00:39:31 ◼ ► can fault Apple for in this whole saga. Communication and design choices. It is not a scam. Rightly
00:39:46 ◼ ► even if you disagree with the decisions they made and you think that they should have done
00:39:56 ◼ ► actually, that's part of what I think frustrates the people at Apple is that their intent was
00:40:17 ◼ ► culture that led to the fact that a three year old iPhone would suddenly shut down with
00:40:22 ◼ ► 50% battery. But the solution, which was very clever, which was, boy, we need to do a better
00:40:28 ◼ ► job of reducing power because this is a bad user experience. Like, that was a good engineering
00:40:34 ◼ ► decision to solve a problem. We should debate the way they didn't communicate it and how
00:40:42 ◼ ► they got in that position. Those are both, I think, fair places to criticize Apple. But
00:40:46 ◼ ► like, this specific engineering challenge that they solved by throttling things so that
00:40:57 ◼ ► know that everybody was getting very upset with older phones that were just spontaneously
00:41:02 ◼ ► shutting down. I can't tell you how many times my daughter and my wife, in the last year
00:41:12 ◼ ► like furious about it. And people grouse about slow iPhones, and I don't want to make light
00:41:17 ◼ ► of it because I've seen some impossible-to-use iPhones that were incredibly slow, but at
00:41:34 ◼ ► and I had my iPhone out and was taking pictures of, taking video, HD video, maybe even 4K
00:41:40 ◼ ► video of my kids coming down the ski slope. And the phone just went, "Nope, I'm off. I'm
00:41:45 ◼ ► turning myself off." And I think it was the cold that was doing it in that circumstance,
00:41:48 ◼ ► But there's nothing worse than that. So, you know, full credit to Apple's electrical engineering
00:41:54 ◼ ► and software power management teams for figuring out this problem that, you know, that's not
00:42:06 ◼ ► Yeah, there's a and I think there's a culture within Apple of never wanting to say anything
00:42:18 ◼ ► mean, who, you know, you know, you go to a restaurant and how often does the waiter tell
00:42:32 ◼ ► That's when you admit, you admit the failure once it's done. And in the, in the rear view
00:42:51 ◼ ► Forget even why but Brent and I both could make it and so we had like a weekend to work together
00:43:06 ◼ ► but prime rib in my opinion is usually either excellent or it is terrible very tough and
00:43:13 ◼ ► a waitress came by and somebody asked a question and she said that she recommended you know
00:43:17 ◼ ► somebody's like which steak should I get and she was like I recommend the ribeye and then
00:43:21 ◼ ► I said hey what about the prime rib is the prime rib good here and she said I recommend
00:43:32 ◼ ► But, you know, Apple takes that to an extreme where they, in their prepared remarks for
00:43:46 ◼ ► with, "Ooh, I'll bet nobody else thought of it. I've got a really good question and I'll
00:43:54 ◼ ► is canned, you know, like they were ready for it. You know, like I've still never stumped
00:44:28 ◼ ► when it's when it's 445 and they really want to go away. Yeah, because it was a combination of
00:44:42 ◼ ► sound self serving, but I think that they, you know, maybe like talking to me more than other
00:44:48 ◼ ► some other people. And that if, you know, it could be more leisurely, like instead of getting,
00:44:54 ◼ ► you know, having somebody tapping their watch at 20, 29 minutes in, it could go 35, 40,
00:45:00 ◼ ► 45 minutes and doesn't matter because there's nobody after. But anyway, yeah, I know exactly
00:45:12 ◼ ► they're going to say. They know how they're going to phrase things. They know how you're
00:45:15 ◼ ► going to address it. I will try to ask a clever question. I'll get an answer. I'll be like,
00:45:22 ◼ ► else's article like, you know, and it'll be you or or like neelay or you know, just somebody
00:45:27 ◼ ► Matt hone and I don't know, I mean, whoever it is, and you'll see the exact same phrasing
00:45:41 ◼ ► So I think, you know, this whole issue with batteries, you know, is industry wide, there
00:45:46 ◼ ► is nothing worse about iPhones batteries than competing products and if anything I genuinely
00:46:00 ◼ ► the competing products on the market. So it's not like the problems inherent to lithium-ion
00:46:09 ◼ ► it's not within their character to talk about it like that this technical note that came
00:46:14 ◼ ► out yesterday explaining all of the various ways that lithium ion batteries suck are just terrible.
00:46:22 ◼ ► And surely, you know, this is one of those things where probably not next year, you know, but it's
00:46:28 ◼ ► one of those things where like one or two years isn't going to make a difference. But at some
00:46:31 ◼ ► point, you know, 1015 years from now, we're going to have a totally different technology powering
00:46:36 ◼ ► these devices. And we're going to look back at lithium ion batteries. And, you know, it's going
00:46:53 ◼ ► in the corner on this and I, you know, I think they regret it now. But for example, in iOS,
00:47:04 ◼ ► battery is truly in dire condition, when you go there, it will say your battery may need
00:47:17 ◼ ► page where there's information about how to, you know, more or less telling you to go take
00:47:22 ◼ ► it to an Apple store or otherwise, some other authorized dealer. So I was tweeting about
00:47:30 ◼ ► anybody get this. And then somebody thankfully, because I hadn't seen it personally. And I'm
00:48:34 ◼ ► And it's because that warning isn't tied to the threshold of where these throttling features
00:48:40 ◼ ► kick in. It's truly, I don't know where it is, but like, you know, it, it, it seems like
00:48:45 ◼ ► there's some kind of test that Apple can perform in the store and it gives Apple a number from
00:48:51 ◼ ► like one to a hundred of the health of your battery and they won't, they will refuse to
00:49:01 ◼ ► your iPhone battery isn't good enough and they run this test and it says 81 they won't take your
00:49:06 ◼ ► $79 and replace the battery. And I that's interesting. And I've had you know, there's a
00:49:12 ◼ ► I've heard from a bunch of people during this whole saga, who said I you know, I'm so frustrated
00:49:18 ◼ ► because it said 83 I know that the battery isn't as good as it used to be. I have the $80 I just
00:49:24 ◼ ► want you to take it and have me come back in an hour and have right I just want to keep using this
00:51:00 ◼ ► looked at in a non tech article, and it does seem like Android at a system level has built
00:51:06 ◼ ► in throttling, where certain things just naturally, you know, like the CPU doesn't run at peak
00:51:12 ◼ ► performance, you can't just run the CPU at peak performance for as long as you want until
00:51:16 ◼ ► battery dies. It will kick in, like benchmarks show it. More or less, the answer is it's
00:51:25 ◼ ► complicated. Android phones don't run on the battery like a tank of gas. There's all sorts
00:51:32 ◼ ► of stuff going on in Android 2 to make these things work. But the thing I did find interesting
00:51:38 ◼ ► too is—and I think I put it in the show notes—this link to a Reddit thread about this. And it's
00:51:54 ◼ ► but they're saying they don't do exactly what Apple is doing. They're not saying that your phone
00:52:04 ◼ ► doesn't throttle the CPU. Here's the statement from Motorola, "We do not throttle CPU performance
00:52:11 ◼ ► based on older batteries, but they do throttle CPU performance. In general, it's they just
00:52:18 ◼ ► have to. And on this Reddit thread, there's comments from a bunch of people. Like, here's
00:52:30 ◼ ► seems like it runs into the problem iPhones had that it just shuts down. And then there's
00:52:34 ◼ ► also a problem. I think iPhones can get into this too, with a bad enough battery. Where
00:52:40 ◼ ► it's a never-ending boot loop where it's the boot loop of death where the battery is in
00:52:45 ◼ ► such bad shape that as you power it on while it's starting up it hits the point where it
00:52:51 ◼ ► needs to shut down because it's not getting enough energy from the battery and shuts down
00:52:54 ◼ ► and you never you can't get out of it. Here's somebody who claims to be a Verizon employee.
00:53:03 ◼ ► It is most definitely LG's fault. It's been happening on the G3, G4, G5 and V10 models.
00:53:09 ◼ ► They all happened after their one-year warranty expired, but before their upgrade periods.
00:53:14 ◼ ► The response has been horrendously shit, and we are currently dealing with their own class
00:53:36 ◼ ► is specific to iPhones and that there aren't problems with Android and that it may or may
00:53:44 ◼ ► Yeah, it depends on what, you know, how much batteries in the phone and how power, what's
00:53:49 ◼ ► the power draw. And like Apple has these incredibly fast processors now, but I imagine that, you
00:53:55 ◼ ► know, they're already trying to regulate the power pretty severely. So it may come down
00:53:59 ◼ ► to just like how big is your battery? And maybe Apple has been, my gut feeling is Apple
00:54:39 ◼ ► you know, maybe they are already turning this and stopping the like hyper aggressive, you
00:54:44 ◼ ► know, let's do as little battery as we can and get away with it because we want to keep
00:54:49 ◼ ► Well, I think the most telling thing is that the iPhone 10 is actually slightly thicker
00:54:54 ◼ ► than the iPhone 8 and 7 and 6. It's, you know, it's just a few millimeters, I want to say,
00:55:03 ◼ ► maybe one millimeter or something. It's not significant, but it certainly is significant
00:55:08 ◼ ► enough that if you lay them down side by side on a table, you can see that it's thicker.
00:55:12 ◼ ► So that's, you know, certainly it's a strong suggestion that Apple has gotten to a thin enough
00:55:28 ◼ ► timescale 10 years from now we will look back on the iPhone 10 and think my god wasn't that
00:55:34 ◼ ► exciting when that phone shipped but look at how thick it is it's so heavy. Sure I mean there is a
00:55:39 ◼ ► point where you're going to give yourself a paper cut with your phone if it gets super thin right
00:55:43 ◼ ► it is you know you can get everything can get thinner at the exact same rate except with if
00:55:50 ◼ ► you set your battery target at 14 hours instead of 10 hours right you know it's going to get thinner
00:57:05 ◼ ► templates to choose from, but it's, you know, there's going to be like 10 looks and my website's
00:57:10 ◼ ► going to look like all these others and there's thousands and thousands of Squarespace sites
00:57:14 ◼ ► out there. So surely it's, it's really not like that at all. I mean, you really can get
00:57:19 ◼ ► started and pick a template and without doing any design work on your own, maybe because
00:57:26 ◼ ► a beautiful website that's right out of their templates, but you can design it to be customized
00:57:32 ◼ ► right out the wazoo. And I'll give you an example. I just this week linked to a fantastic
00:57:40 ◼ ► story by a guy named Jason Justin O'Byrne, who was a he's a cartographer. Oh, yeah, used
00:58:51 ◼ ► guess what? Squarespace. He said it on Squarespace. So, uh, really, it's just a terrific example
00:59:03 ◼ ► much work and research goes into the article and when you see it and you think about it,
00:59:08 ◼ ► and he's got examples from like years ago, uh, where he's been collecting these examples
00:59:16 ◼ ► do is focus on his research and his writing and his comparison and doesn't have to worry
00:59:21 ◼ ► about web hosting and all of that stuff. Squarespace just takes care of it. I really can't emphasize
00:59:33 ◼ ► it is to just make a new document in a word processor and have it be beautiful, have it
00:59:40 ◼ ► be unique to yourself with your domain, your name, your design, everything you want. So
00:59:45 ◼ ► next time, everything's going to look professional. It's easy to use, easy to set up. You do it
00:59:51 ◼ ► all through the web browser and you can start with a free trial today at squarespace.com.
00:59:56 ◼ ► And when you decide to sign up, all you have to do is remember the code talk show T A L
01:00:07 ◼ ► check them out next time you need a website. Do you love that? You love that article from
01:00:13 ◼ ► Yeah, I mean, I remember I've been following them, and I remember linking to them before
01:00:18 ◼ ► because they are so detailed. And, you know, that requires commitment because he's taking
01:00:23 ◼ ► screenshots over time of the same things so you can see the progress. I think it's really
01:00:29 ◼ ► interesting. It led to a really interesting conversation I saw on Twitter, a lot of things
01:00:45 ◼ ► like Google is turning its machine learning onto satellite photos and drawing the shapes
01:00:49 ◼ ► of buildings base basically automatically based on pictures of buildings from satellite
01:00:55 ◼ ► photos which is cool. Although I saw somebody use it as an example of why Google Maps is
01:01:12 ◼ ► over the other is a is a the shape of a building especially since in my neighborhood they've
01:01:34 ◼ ► of its resources. I'm not sure I would say building shapes, but you know, but it is amazing
01:02:01 ◼ ► labor intensive. It's, you know, it requires actual humans for now, you know, again, that
01:02:15 ◼ ► view thing would be one of the first things that would get, you know, have the human removed
01:02:20 ◼ ► from it, right? Like it. In Uber type situation, you can think of more scenarios where you
01:02:33 ◼ ► or I need you to stop at three places, whereas Street View just set the car going and let
01:02:38 ◼ ► it go. So even taking out the human labor, though, it's just you need a number of cars.
01:02:44 ◼ ► The cars can only go so fast. So his example was a small town where he grew up that still
01:02:52 ◼ ► hasn't been street viewed, but all the roads are mapped because the satellite images can
01:02:59 ◼ ► be processed by computers, and computers keep getting faster and faster and faster. They
01:03:07 ◼ ► show buildings on maps in new developments where the roads aren't even there yet because
01:03:11 ◼ ► they haven't updated the roads, but they've already identified through machine learning
01:05:20 ◼ ► to get there, but just take me around traffic and stuff like that. And I think it's gotten
01:05:25 ◼ ► so much better, so much obvious, Apple Maps has gotten so much obviously better in recent
01:05:30 ◼ ► years about little things like telling you ahead of time which lane you want to get into
01:05:35 ◼ ► for an exit and explaining the words that are used to tell you about like a complicated
01:05:43 ◼ ► like an exit with like two exits, you're right, like, you can make the the sharper right to go
01:05:49 ◼ ► one way, and a lesser sloping right hand turn to go a different way. It's described better than I
01:05:58 ◼ ► just described it, you know, telling you which which one you want to take it, they're obviously
01:06:03 ◼ ► improving Apple Maps terrifically. But it's also the case that Google Maps is being improved at
01:07:05 ◼ ► is with self-driving cars. And I know Neelai Patel has to mention him again, has mentioned
01:07:18 ◼ ► other car companies is often getting the exact right spot to get picked up. And there's so
01:07:25 ◼ ► many buildings like in New York where Neelai is and here in Philadelphia, where the address
01:07:31 ◼ ► of the building you're in doesn't correspond exactly to where you are to get picked up.
01:07:37 ◼ ► Maybe you're on a side street. And the example that Justin O'Byrne gets into is that combined
01:07:48 ◼ ► with Street View, where the machine learning can pick up doors, you can combine this with
01:07:56 ◼ ► the map data to not just know the address and the location of a building, but the location
01:08:00 ◼ ► of the doors at a building. And that that's a huge that, you know, that that could really
01:08:17 ◼ ► are in like, shopping malls and strip malls where if you've ever done that I do that sometimes
01:08:22 ◼ ► when we're taking a long drive to LA or something and we're, we're getting dinner in way out
01:08:27 ◼ ► in the extreme East Bay where we used to live. We don't live there anymore. And there's a
01:08:36 ◼ ► map apps can are like, oh, it's in that center, right? But some of these places are huge.
01:08:41 ◼ ► And that's the thing that I think I've noticed getting better, especially with Google. But
01:08:45 ◼ ► Apple is catching up again is instead of just sort of sending you to the center and then
01:08:49 ◼ ► saying good luck. Look for the sign that I've noticed now that these services are much better
01:09:25 ◼ ► Super useful. Very, very useful. Because again, knowing that there is a, you know, like a five
01:09:34 ◼ ► guys in the airport and yeah, we everybody I'm with, yeah, we can all go for five guys, but where
01:09:41 ◼ ► we know it's somewhere in the airport, but is it even vaguely near our terminal? You know,
01:09:46 ◼ ► knowing stuff like that. You used to have to like find the airport website or like maybe your
01:10:15 ◼ ► It reminds me, I'm surprised by it, but now that I think about it, I'm not surprised because
01:10:22 ◼ ► it's a typical Apple move when they actually recognize that they've made a mistake. Like,
01:10:33 ◼ ► was it. That's what it reminded me of too. Same thing, which is like, "Oh, right. Okay.
01:10:47 ◼ ► some sort of like extended battery replacement in general. But regardless, offering it for
01:10:58 ◼ ► want a new battery, we'll put it in there," to saying, "Look, if you're having problems
01:11:02 ◼ ► and we can check and see that your battery is aging, then, you know, and we agree, yes,
01:11:54 ◼ ► they're at 50% capacity. Right, the battery is the odd consumable component. It, you know,
01:12:10 ◼ ► forget what it costs now to replace a screen, but screens are obviously something that needs
01:12:18 ◼ ► screens crack. It's one of the top issues related to these devices industry-wide. Another
01:12:28 ◼ ► one of those things that someday Scotty's going to come back from the future and invent
01:12:39 ◼ ► and we're going to look back at the decades where cracking your phone was a common problem
01:12:46 ◼ ► and think, "My God, we were living in caveman times." But for now, it's there. But people
01:12:53 ◼ ► get that, right? And I think that the way—I think the price is around like $100 now for
01:13:06 ◼ ► get the extended warranty, they get the extended AppleCare on their phones because they either
01:13:10 ◼ ► have first-hand experience breaking the screen and wanting to get it replaced as cheaply
01:13:15 ◼ ► as possible or even if they haven't done it, they're just worried about it because they
01:13:19 ◼ ► know it's an issue. I think the battery needs a different treatment because it wears out
01:13:29 ◼ ► I dropped it I did you know I wish that it was made of different materials so it wouldn't
01:13:38 ◼ ► the phone perfectly like you can do nothing wrong except use it and the battery will wear
01:13:44 ◼ ► out 79 bucks isn't a lot but it's a big difference from 29 bucks 29 bucks is great I mean and
01:14:26 ◼ ► I went back and forth with a bunch of people on Twitter and including Nile about this after
01:14:37 ◼ ► interview, Greg Joswiak basically says they're not consumables. Don't think of them that
01:14:43 ◼ ► way. Don't worry about it. And this is a shift in Apple saying, "All right, let's just be
01:14:47 ◼ ► clear and not pretend. But anyway, in the Twitter back and forth, there was this question
01:14:57 ◼ ► but what's the value of feeling like they're taking care of you and providing good customer
01:15:03 ◼ ► service and looking out for their customers? And I firmly believe that at the highest levels
01:15:15 ◼ ► years ago is absolutely imperative and that what they don't want is anybody to Apple to
01:15:21 ◼ ► have a reputation that if you, you know, use your phone for more than two years, it's going
01:15:25 ◼ ► to be terrible because Apple hates you. Like they want that. They legitimately want that
01:15:29 ◼ ► to be a good experience even if you're using an older phone. And I think, you know, that
01:15:33 ◼ ► is so because of that, like saying, okay, it's going to be 29. It's going to be easier.
01:15:39 ◼ ► going to that's the value of investing if this even if it is a loss or if it's a break-even
01:15:45 ◼ ► in investing in your customers and making them feel happy because they're going to feel
01:15:49 ◼ ► it's the miracle on 34th Street thing right it's like you the good customer service isn't
01:15:54 ◼ ► always looking at to sell you your next thing it's to it's to make the customer feel like
01:15:59 ◼ ► they're happy to be a customer of yours and that that builds loyalty so I think this is
01:16:04 ◼ ► case where, you know, Apple retail not necessarily structured to see the forest for the trees,
01:16:16 ◼ ► which we want, and that's great. I mean, I don't want Apple to stop selling iPhones because
01:16:31 ◼ ► a little bit and saying, "No, no, no. We should make it easy for people with a three-year-old
01:16:37 ◼ ► phone to get their battery swapped out. We should not get in their way." And by lowering
01:16:48 ◼ ► just helps in the sense that it makes everybody understand that you can take your phone to
01:16:51 ◼ ► an Apple store or an authorized or even unauthorized person and swap out your battery and get a
01:16:57 ◼ ► a new battery, which I think a lot of people don't think about that. So this has educated
01:17:13 ◼ ► story, everybody with a slow iPhone—not everybody, but a lot of people with slow iPhones—are
01:17:25 ◼ ► right. Aha, I knew it was something and it's this deliberate scheme. And it's not it really
01:17:31 ◼ ► isn't. And especially if you got a fully charged, your phone is fully charged, and you've just
01:17:37 ◼ ► restarted it and you open it up and it takes five seconds for the camera app to go from
01:17:47 ◼ ► throttling feature in the OS, you've something else is wrong with your phone. And I've linked
01:17:53 ◼ ► to it on during fireball. It's just one anecdote. But I had tons of people on Twitter, I've
01:17:58 ◼ ► said the same thing where somebody wrote a blog post and they went to the they saw that
01:18:07 ◼ ► the battery issue and the guy plugged it in and said, Nope, your batteries at like 85%.
01:18:11 ◼ ► It's you know, well within normal range, nothing wrong with the battery. But his iPhone was
01:18:16 ◼ ► truly slow and exasperated. He went home and erased it, you know, sit back to factory settings,
01:18:23 ◼ ► restored from a backup and wow his phone was suddenly like it was he remembered when it
01:18:29 ◼ ► was new it was fast again. I keep mentioning it because I just wanted it I think there's
01:18:37 ◼ ► more people with slow iPhones for other reasons than this battery issue than there are who
01:18:47 ◼ ► mentioned it before I almost think like the thing we're not talking about is the bigger
01:20:08 ◼ ► certain. But obviously, some people it does. And that's, you know, I feel like and it's
01:20:15 ◼ ► happened been that case for years that people and it's all over the place, too. I've heard
01:20:29 ◼ ► was concerned about the slowness and I wiped it and restarted it and it was far more responsive.
01:20:49 ◼ ► And I've also heard from people who say, "Well, it's fine for a while, and then maybe it slows
01:21:00 ◼ ► And this, combined with sort of the general trend, whenever you have a new operating system,
01:21:04 ◼ ► to optimize it for the latest and greatest hardware and not worry so much about the old
01:21:08 ◼ ► hardware, I feel like these are similar in the sense that, again, Apple's not sabotaging
01:21:14 ◼ ► your phone, but I don't think enough attention is paid at Apple to issues with two or three
01:21:24 ◼ ► year old hardware. Yeah, I think on iOS and it's been years it really is. And I do I think
01:21:32 ◼ ► it actually works against Apple's own interests like Apple genuinely wants people to be running
01:21:58 ◼ ► of iOS? Just click this button and we'll do it overnight." It's very easy to almost accidentally
01:22:05 ◼ ► agreed to upgrade to iOS, you know, iOS, whatever point of the new version. And right, I feel
01:22:14 ◼ ► like there's a lot of people out there who at some point, a year ago, two, three, whatever
01:22:20 ◼ ► years ago, had an iPhone that they thought was working great, and got a prompt to upgrade
01:22:26 ◼ ► and said, Sure, why not? And then felt like their phone degraded significantly and thought,
01:24:01 ◼ ► you encounter from the time the screen turns on to when you power it down will look different.
01:24:15 ◼ ► And you can't please everybody all the time, right? And so like the people who prefer the
01:24:20 ◼ ► way iOS 7 looked to the way iOS 6 looked didn't know what iOS 7 looked like and therefore
01:25:03 ◼ ► but I feel like when people come in to the store with a fairly recent iPhone, like let's
01:25:09 ◼ ► say an iPhone 6 or a 6s that should be running fine, and they can show the Genius Bar tech,
01:25:18 ◼ ► And before you even plug it in and run any diagnostics, I feel like if you can, you know,
01:25:26 ◼ ► I feel like Apple should be collecting those phones as like evidence, sealing them in a
01:25:31 ◼ ► bag, give the customer a replacement, eat the cost of just swapping it out with a different
01:25:57 ◼ ► does this but like when so obviously they're working on iOS 12 now that process is starting
01:26:09 ◼ ► have people on that team whose job it is to be worried and I'm sure they do about compatibility
01:28:13 ◼ ► aren't going to show up after a factory reset that only seemed to occur after an upgrade
01:28:19 ◼ ► from a previous version and identifying those bugs. Because it's two levels of complaint,
01:28:37 ◼ ► the previous version of iOS. And how can you not feel burned that your phone a week ago
01:28:43 ◼ ► had smooth animations when you go back to the home screen and now you've taken Apple's advice
01:28:48 ◼ ► and upgraded and now it's all stuttery and takes longer. That's a problem. But then these bugs,
01:28:55 ◼ ► that's the thing that I find worrisome is that these bugs with major upgrades seem to have been
01:29:01 ◼ ► around for, who knows, it could be 100 different bugs and different bugs every year. But still,
01:29:08 ◼ ► I really feel like there's way too many instances every single year of people who follow me on
01:29:14 ◼ ► Twitter saying, "Oh, man, I just upgraded my two-year-old iPhone and everything sucks."
01:29:19 ◼ ► Yeah, and the thing that really mystifies me is that when it is solvable by wiping and restoring
01:29:28 ◼ ► from an iCloud backup or an iTunes backup, when that solves it, then it's like, "Okay."
01:30:02 ◼ ► I believe Apple that it cares about the users of its products, even the old ones, but I
01:30:07 ◼ ► also believe that maybe the new hardware gets prioritized and the old hardware just kind
01:30:24 ◼ ► be able to use that phone running iOS 12 for a week and not call the engineering team up
01:31:37 ◼ ► like, no, Apple made a lot of mistakes at various points in this. It's just not necessarily
01:31:41 ◼ ► the mistakes that they're being accused of. So yeah, it's the internet. Everything gets
01:31:48 ◼ ► All right, let me take a break here and thank our third and final sponsor of the show. Our
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01:35:58 ◼ ► I got my iMac Pro. Oh, interesting. So I did I have not ordered I am not going to get one.
01:36:08 ◼ ► Well, I had to talk myself into getting one because I had the first 5k iMac. So it's three
01:36:19 ◼ ► kind of audio processing for podcasts and stuff like that. I could really use the faster
01:36:37 ◼ ► present I guess. So it's $8, $8, $8, $8, 32 gigabytes of RAM. Yeah, and one terabyte SSD.
01:36:46 ◼ ► As I, you know, sat there, I'm not getting one. I'm not Marco Arman. I don't just say I'm not
01:36:52 ◼ ► going to get something and not get one. I've still got the 2014, the original 5k iMac. Yeah,
01:37:00 ◼ ► which is right behind me. That's the one that I'm replacing. Yeah. And I and it's an i7 I built,
01:37:05 ◼ ► like I got the higher processor. It's a really great computer. I'm gonna sell it. It'll sell
01:37:16 ◼ ► I thought, well, I never get a Mac with base RAM. I always, for the last few years, I've maxed
01:37:22 ◼ ► whatever my MacBook Pro has the most RAM I could possibly put in it, which is 16 gigabytes. And my
01:37:27 ◼ ► iMac has the most RAM I could put in it, which is 16 gigabytes at the time. I believe the 5K iMac
01:37:42 ◼ ► I'm gonna and then all of a sudden I have got like an $11,000 thing. Yeah. And I'm like,
01:37:55 ◼ ► know what I did I tried to configure the 5k iMac with terabyte SSD 32 gigs of RAM and like
01:41:52 ◼ ► good friend Caleb Sexton does typically 99% of episodes. But I don't think I don't know
01:42:00 ◼ ► if everybody who listens to podcasts realizes how CPU intensive the export process is. Like
01:42:08 ◼ ► it's not just like hitting command s and now you've got a mp3 that saved like, you know,
01:42:24 ◼ ► it saves instantly as a file. The export process for a podcast is pretty intensive. You've
01:42:44 ◼ ► on it and three of them have like their heater going in the background or their laptop fan
01:42:49 ◼ ► has spun up and so there's white noise behind them and you know denoising and there's there's
01:42:55 ◼ ► software there's this amazing software called isotope RX6 that can take out room noise and
01:43:01 ◼ ► it takes out echoes in rooms it's amazing when it works it is like magic but that stuff
01:43:07 ◼ ► is super processor intense so if you can imagine denoising a three hour audio file and then
01:44:11 ◼ ► And the way they do it is they sell a bundle for like $1,000 and another one for $300 and
01:44:22 ◼ ► And the D Reverb is now in the $300 one, which I have, but when they announced it and when
01:44:32 ◼ ► at math and they built this algorithm that like detects the reflections with the delays
01:44:39 ◼ ► the sound bouncing off of the walls and does a transform. And they told me this whole story
01:44:53 ◼ ► processing that is required to do that is incredibly intense. It's amazing that a computer
01:44:57 ◼ ► sitting on a desk or on the end of an arm, in my case, can do that at all in our homes.
01:45:11 ◼ ► so that they can send it to all those different processor cores because that makes a difference.
01:45:14 ◼ ► I'll tell you the big difference between this one and the iMac when I was testing it, my
01:45:18 ◼ ► 5K iMac is when I do heavy processor stuff on the iMac, and you'll know this too if you've
01:45:23 ◼ ► ever done like a video in code, like the fan turns on and you can hear the fan, the fan
01:45:29 ◼ ► And as far as I can tell on the iMac Pro, the fan's always blowing, but it's incredibly
01:45:34 ◼ ► quiet. You have to be listening for it and you kind of have to turn the iMac around and
01:45:37 ◼ ► stick your ear down there and then you can hear it. And when I started an intense encode
01:45:42 ◼ ► or denoise, what happens is I don't hear any change to the fan sound. It just the air blowing
01:45:49 ◼ ► out is hotter. That's it. It's pretty cool. I was really impressed at the hands-on thing
01:45:54 ◼ ► at Apple when they in New York a couple weeks ago where they were running these high intensity
01:46:00 ◼ ► demos over and over and over again, you know, it was, you know, sort of around round robin,
01:46:10 ◼ ► and they're just doing the same thing over and over again. And after every one, I'd put
01:46:17 ◼ ► iMac sounds like when in my iMac is generally very, very I would, you know, maybe Syracuse
01:46:28 ◼ ► time, but I know what it sounds like when it's taxed. In a perfectly silent room and you listen
01:46:34 ◼ ► very carefully, you can hear something, but it has to be like that. Like most of the work I do,
01:46:40 ◼ ► I could work with music playing and when my iMac, 5k iMac fan blew on, it was like, even with the
01:46:49 ◼ ► music playing, it's like very clearly, "Oh, there goes the fan. Now it's really working hard." And
01:46:54 ◼ ► just that level of background noise or having the door open to the to the dining room in the
01:46:59 ◼ ► kitchen here, forget it. Like, forget it. I had to lay my head down on the desk with my ear sticking
01:47:05 ◼ ► kind of like back behind to get any hint that that noise was going on. And so that's that's pretty
01:47:11 ◼ ► impressive. And that's because it knows, I mean, this thing is engineered for for all the thermal
01:47:17 ◼ ► dynamics of these of this powerful GPU and the powerful processor. And so and it's got to work
01:47:41 ◼ ► I, you know, ironically, as a podcast denoiser, I mean, that's what I'm doing that makes
01:47:48 ◼ ► my fan go is I'm taking out everybody else's computer fans because that's like one of the
01:47:52 ◼ ► noisiest thing on a podcast is people are right next to their computer and they're running
01:47:57 ◼ ► they're on a laptop and after like 20 minutes the laptops like okay I gotta turn on the
01:48:01 ◼ ► fan now and then there's fan noise for the rest of the recording. There's sort of a beautiful
01:48:05 ◼ ► symmetry to that. That's right. Using a quiet computer to computationally ex-denoise noise
01:50:46 ◼ ► What do you use? Here's a question. I've been reevaluating my external drives recently because
01:50:51 ◼ ► it's gotten to the point where external USB 3 SSDs are at the price that I would consider
01:51:00 ◼ ► paying for for just like my super duper clone of my startup drive. So like I'm it's like
01:51:06 ◼ ► I've I don't use it. I haven't used a computer with a spinning hard disk as like the startup
01:51:10 ◼ ► disk for a couple of years now ever since my iMac I guess I got the iMac in this MacBook
01:51:34 ◼ ► I have a Samsung USB SSD, I think it's a 512, and it's impossibly small. And I use that
01:51:54 ◼ ► off of it. And it's, you know, I've got like nine terabytes of stuff on there. I've got
01:52:02 ◼ ► a bunch of podcast archives and it's a Plex server, so I got movies and TV shows on there
01:52:07 ◼ ► that I've read from Blu-rays. I like it. I love having that space. I am starting to think
01:52:52 ◼ ► And so I don't know, I'm, I'm, we're, we're getting there, we're getting close. But the
01:53:03 ◼ ► Yeah, it's, I think it's not even by default you get a fusion drive by default. You just
01:53:07 ◼ ► get a spinning disk drive that shows you how much more expensive SSDs are and on products
01:53:21 ◼ ► I guess what I'm saying is I really want the iMac to be redesigned like the iMac Pro was
01:53:24 ◼ ► to remove the option of a spinning disk, but I understand why they haven't done it because
01:53:35 ◼ ► So I hope one of these days I can move my outboard storage, but as it is, I've got sort
01:53:40 ◼ ► of like five feet away from me in a little sort of in a drawer of some old IKEA furniture
01:53:51 ◼ ► I can hear it ticking every now and then when the time machine backup goes on, but I'm willing
01:54:05 ◼ ► but I've heard numerous times over the years that some people say what you should do is
01:54:20 ◼ ► gray sock that you could wear in all situations, and then once a year throw them all out again
01:55:51 ◼ ► I bought these Samsung T fives there. I just looked up the prices. So one terabyte Samsung
01:56:08 ◼ ► Yeah, I've got I've got one of those here. I think mine's a 512 but it's a T three. And
01:56:21 ◼ ► visa mounting bracket on the back of my iMac. I was actually able to just stick the drive
01:56:43 ◼ ► It's like the tension of the cable will lift it or rocket. Yeah, it's it's yeah. So I have
01:56:55 ◼ ► is just like 10 terabytes of SSD but that right now would cost a lot of money that would
01:57:12 ◼ ► SSD only. So that's why I bought one of these one terabyte things to replace my time machine
01:57:17 ◼ ► drive with USB. The only thing that's a little—like, I've got enough slots on my—or USB ports,
01:57:37 ◼ ► You don't need high-speed performance, but I feel like an SSD you want plugged right into the computer. Maybe that's not logical
01:57:46 ◼ ► But one thing about these modern like the USB 3 drives is that you can't daisy chain them
01:58:00 ◼ ► Plugged into it and then a next drive gets plugged into the first drive and a third drive could go in the second drive
01:58:16 ◼ ► thunderbolts or maybe they were Firewire 800. Yeah, I think that was at Drives and they were
01:58:22 ◼ ► like terabyte drives and I could chain them and they all had external power bricks and it was
01:58:26 ◼ ► awful, but at least they were all, like you said, all of the same kind. But that was, you know,
01:58:39 ◼ ► Drive is that then you have your computer attached to this drive that is big and hot and has a power brick and all that
01:58:45 ◼ ► And one of these Samsung SSD is you're absolutely right you could you just plug it in there
01:58:49 ◼ ► And I mean you could basically tape it to the back of your computer and never see it and it would just sit there
01:58:55 ◼ ► I almost feel like I would almost have rather have it like have the USB thing connected to it and just plug it in the
01:59:00 ◼ ► USB port is a dongle in the back, you know, just have the whole drive sticking out back
01:59:18 ◼ ► my, getting them out of there, even if they're backup drives. One last thing I've definitely
01:59:23 ◼ ► wanted to talk about is you and I had a Twitter conversation a few weeks ago, speaking of
01:59:27 ◼ ► I forget how it started, but we were talking about—somehow on Twitter we got into a conversation
01:59:47 ◼ ► Box account, and your iCloud Drive, of course, shows up in there. But if you plug an SD card
01:59:55 ◼ ► into your iOS device using the adapter that Apple itself sells to connect an SD card to
02:00:17 ◼ ► I did on Six Colors about this gadget, this Kensington Mobile Lite thing that was—there
02:00:28 ◼ ► is what I use now when I'm traveling with an iOS device and I want to use like a portable
02:00:32 ◼ ► flash recorder to record audio and then edit it. And how do I do that? I can edit it on
02:00:38 ◼ ► my iPad, but how do I get the files back? And even with Apple's SD card reading dongle,
02:00:43 ◼ ► it'll do is launch the photos app and say, would you like to import any videos or photos
02:00:55 ◼ ► dates back to I mean, it's a camera thing. It's like just thinking of it as as for camera
02:00:59 ◼ ► imports. And I thought when files came, it would be like the moment where Apple's like,
02:01:03 ◼ ► all right, you want to attach an SD card or USB hard drive or connect to a an SMB server?
02:01:27 ◼ ► things. And I just keep coming back to, you know, that's all true. But if you're somewhere
02:01:35 ◼ ► no internet, if the iPad Pro is meant for business users and somebody's got a PowerPoint
02:01:40 ◼ ► on a keychain drive and they hand it to you and you have your iPad. It's like you can't
02:01:45 ◼ ► get that file. You can't. Not even with any adapter in the world, you can't do it. It turns
02:01:50 ◼ ► out there are adapters that do it, but they're like special adapters with third-party apps
02:01:59 ◼ ► send it to other things. It's just like this thing, which is a Wi-Fi base station basically
02:02:04 ◼ ► you plug your SD card into and then connect to the Wi-Fi and transfer it using its third
02:02:10 ◼ ► party. It's fast, which is why I use it. And there are other ones. There are little weird
02:02:15 ◼ ► adapters too. It just seems silly that it's a legacy of Apple kind of putting file systems
02:02:21 ◼ ► at arm's length in iOS, but they've kind of gotten over that. And yet, when I think about
02:02:26 ◼ ► the iPad Pro especially, it just seems a little bit silly that, you know, they're not forcing
02:02:34 ◼ ► the files app in people's faces. It's for people who need to access files. Why wouldn't
02:02:38 ◼ ► you kind of broaden it a little bit? Because the fact is, yeah, in the future, cloud, unlimited
02:03:03 ◼ ► out in the middle of the Nevada desert after the solar eclipse and like I didn't have good
02:03:08 ◼ ► internet there to upload that file. I, I, uh, you know, I just ran, ran it on my recorder.
02:03:13 ◼ ► And then when I got to wifi somewhere, I wanted to upload the final version and, and that
02:03:18 ◼ ► was not something I could do without a weird third party app. So it's just one of the strange,
02:03:23 ◼ ► strange gaps in iOS that still exists. It's just so super frustrating if you've got your,
02:03:30 ◼ ► In your right hand is like an iPad or an iPhone, and in your left hand is an SD card with a
02:03:46 ◼ ► You've got an SD card plugged into an Apple adapter or a USB stick plugged into an Apple
02:03:58 ◼ ► all of the videos on it. But you know there's a PowerPoint file or a Word file or an audio
02:04:17 ◼ ► and I understand why people had this tendency to say, well, you know, the future, like I
02:04:35 ◼ ► just can't do it. It's just too hard an engineering challenge, too hard a UI challenge. I'm like,
02:04:41 ◼ ► really? I have a great confidence in Apple to solve these relative like the implementation
02:04:47 ◼ ► details of this in order to they're already reading an SD card. They're already reading
02:04:54 ◼ ► Right. It's, yeah, there are security implications. I realize, you know, like if you talk to like
02:05:04 ◼ ► dangerous. They can be, you know, that there's, you know, there's reasons you shouldn't stick
02:05:11 ◼ ► a unknown USB stick into your, you know, laptop. But on iOS in particular, you know, it's up
02:05:19 ◼ ► to Apple to do it. It's not like I'm asking for any app to be able to read and write to
02:05:31 ◼ ► You know, it's not like you've got real access to the full directory structure of the the
02:05:44 ◼ ► maintain a difference between the file system that the actual system is running on and the
02:05:50 ◼ ► files that are exposed to the user. There's no reason they couldn't continue to do that,
02:06:02 ◼ ► card to some other safe location, not like willy-nilly, you can put it at the root level
02:06:13 ◼ ► know it's a little thing too, but when I try to think, I, yeah, and I do hit this myself,
02:06:18 ◼ ► which is why I write about it. And whenever I write about it, I hear from people who are
02:06:22 ◼ ► like, "Oh, wow, I've also struggled with this for this reason." Or, "I bought this other
02:06:26 ◼ ► weird gadget with another really awful," because all these third-party apps for these things
02:06:35 ◼ ► work because there's no system level stuff to do it. So obviously some people out there
02:06:44 ◼ ► that like it's a device for getting work done, that's when these scenarios start to occur
02:06:50 ◼ ► to me which is like you know again I had this happen when I was in Yosemite where the internet
02:06:54 ◼ ► is terrible and somebody wanted to give me a file and I couldn't load it on my iPad and
02:07:01 ◼ ► airdrop, but it got really complicated and it didn't need to be. And I've been on airplanes
02:07:08 ◼ ► and stuff too where it's like I'm not going to sync all of this data to Dropbox over the
02:07:13 ◼ ► internet from an airplane and then sync it back to the other device. It's just not going
02:07:18 ◼ ► to happen. And it's a little detail, but it's one of those things that when people get angry
02:07:24 ◼ ► when I talk about this, what blows their mind is the next thing I say which is I think maybe
02:07:28 ◼ ► the iPad Pro at some point should have USB-C instead of lightning because if it's a real
02:07:33 ◼ ► computer, maybe you should just embrace it. And maybe that's a bridge too far, but I think
02:07:45 ◼ ► iOS development, at least as far as the iPad concerned, should all be about like eliminating
02:07:49 ◼ ► those last roadblocks that people talk about when they're like, "I really want to use the
02:08:30 ◼ ► in without launching iTunes. But I know why we're here, but it would be nice if somebody
02:08:47 ◼ ► - Yeah, you have to click on it. And especially now that we don't sync our devices very much,
02:08:52 ◼ ► if at all, in iTunes anymore. It's like my one obligatory trip to the iTunes device area.
02:09:01 ◼ ► click on the iPad, click on apps, scroll to the bottom of the window, click on the right app,
02:09:06 ◼ ► and now I can drag files in like it's the Finder, except it's the worst Finder replacement ever.
02:09:12 ◼ ► Say what you want about the Finder, and we could do a whole two-hour podcast with Syracuse,
02:09:17 ◼ ► and we could do a four-hour podcast with Syracuse about nothing about gripes about the Finder.
02:09:29 ◼ ► ever since 1984 has been to expose files and make it useful to move files and do things
02:09:51 ◼ ► And it's great you can do it, don't get me wrong. The moment when I discovered that there's
02:09:54 ◼ ► a secret place in iTunes in the apps tab down at the bottom where you can literally just,
02:10:05 ◼ ► it is so stupid that that's where it is. There's probably a lot of people listening to this
02:10:08 ◼ ► who are like, "What? You can do what?" And they're going to plug their iPhone into their
02:10:11 ◼ ► Mac and then go to iTunes, yeah, and navigate to the devices and then go down to the bottom
02:10:47 ◼ ► and then immediately on the other device turn around and sync it all the way back down.
02:10:51 ◼ ► That's sort of silly. And if I've got unlimited time, I can do it that way. But it's silly
02:10:59 ◼ ► Last but not least, the other thing I wanted to talk to you about, because I know you'd
02:11:03 ◼ ► appreciate it. Did you see that thing I linked to the other day that this guy Dan Liu wrote
02:11:12 ◼ ► So he like took like a high speed camera and with a bunch of different computers running a bunch of
02:11:18 ◼ ► different operating systems from a bunch of different eras measured the time from when you
02:11:23 ◼ ► the high speed camera captures the key moving on a keyboard and the letter pressed appearing
02:11:30 ◼ ► on screen in the terminal app on that device. And the fastest performing lowest latency computer he
02:11:47 ◼ ► phrases it, where he just had this vague notion that computers are slower than they were when
02:11:51 ◼ ► he was a kid and wanted to actually measure it because, you know, human memory and, you
02:11:58 ◼ ► know, is funny like that, that you might be very, you know, could have tested it and found
02:12:02 ◼ ► out he was very wrong. And then he has a terrific, he's an electrical engineer by training, and
02:12:18 ◼ ► comes down to like, the TI-99-4A or whatever it was called, performed pretty well, too.
02:12:43 ◼ ► and it being sent as a signal is gone because of the clever design of the key switches in
02:12:55 ◼ ► You know, I always think the same thing. It seems to me, it always seemed to me that the
02:13:08 ◼ ► about like running emulators that it's not just that the screen technology is so different
02:13:13 ◼ ► that it looks different and doesn't feel the same. It does, no matter how fast your computer
02:14:46 ◼ ► And plus, displays, our displays are so much richer, and their refresh rates are not as
02:14:52 ◼ ► high as the ones in the old days because they're so much richer. There are lots of good reasons
02:14:57 ◼ ► Yeah. The Apple IIc is one of my all-time favorite designs. Guy English and I both swear
02:15:04 ◼ ► by it. And I think on Twitter, we were like, Guy and I were talking recently on Twitter
02:15:09 ◼ ► about how like it could pass for like a in many ways pass for a modern computer and some
02:15:17 ◼ ► people are like you guys are nuts that thing looks ancient I don't know I think I'll put
02:16:03 ◼ ► its design language ended up being fed into. It's the same design language that they used
02:16:10 ◼ ► when they built the first PowerBooks. It didn't have a screen, although I believe you could
02:16:15 ◼ ► get an LCD screen for it that made it that much more portable. But the idea that it was
02:16:37 ◼ ► slots, card slots that I could flip open in the Apple IIe. And the Apple IIc is a sealed
02:16:44 ◼ ► Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting one to look at as where Apple was going. And, you know,
02:16:50 ◼ ► and it was a machine that was, came out of the era while Steve Jobs was in exile at Next.
02:17:06 ◼ ► - Huh, I didn't know that. I'm not involved. - But, you know, Steve was not around too much longer after that.
02:17:28 ◼ ► And I realized this the other day that my Apple II, the Mac already existed when I bought the Apple II,
02:17:36 ◼ ► which seems like that would have been a stupid move, but the fact was the Mac was so young at
02:17:39 ◼ ► that point. And the Apple II was everywhere. It was in my elementary school, it was in my high
02:17:44 ◼ ► school. All my friends who had computers had the Apple II. We could trade disks and stuff. And that
02:17:50 ◼ ► was, and it gave me, it gave me six years or five and a half-ish years through high school and the
02:18:00 ◼ ► huge amounts of money on the Apple II in the 80s. We think of it now as like then the Mac
02:18:05 ◼ ► era began and that was the end of the Apple II. It's not true. Like the Mac took a long
02:18:08 ◼ ► time to kind of get up and running and during that period the Apple II was what was fueling
02:18:18 ◼ ► at Mac User Magazine, elsewhere in the universe at that moment there was still an Apple II
02:18:24 ◼ ► magazine. Like, even in 1993, they were still publishing like a plus insider magazine for
02:18:33 ◼ ► the Apple two. So the Apple two lived a lot longer than that. I think like conventional
02:18:38 ◼ ► wisdom has it now where it's sort of like, well, then the Mac happened and that was the
02:18:41 ◼ ► end of the Apple two. It's not true. The eighties were like the Apple twos, a golden decade.
02:19:21 ◼ ► where basically you could stick an Apple II formatted disc in onto a Mac. And it looked
02:19:26 ◼ ► like FontDAMover. It was one of these things, or like Transmit is today, where it was like,
02:19:30 ◼ ► the files on the floppy are here on the left side, and the files on the Mac are over here
02:19:34 ◼ ► on the right side. And you'd click and press the arrow button, and it would very slowly
02:19:38 ◼ ► kind of grind. But that's how I ended up printing all of my papers my freshman and sophomore
02:19:43 ◼ ► years in college, is I'd write them on the Apple II, put them on one of those floppies,
02:19:48 ◼ ► it to a computer lab or the college newspaper office, migrate them over onto the Mac, open
02:19:54 ◼ ► them up, format them, and print them on a laser printer. So that was the migration path.
02:20:00 ◼ ► That's where all of the stuff that I brought when I bought a Mac was that. I would just
02:20:04 ◼ ► put them on those floppies and then migrate them back out. But that was it. I guess there
02:20:09 ◼ ► was an Apple II card for the Mac for a while where you could boot an Apple II inside of
02:20:23 ◼ ► there was no way, you know, whatever. It just wasn't any way to run it on a Mac. So they literally
02:20:29 ◼ ► put the Apple II on a card to put in a Mac so that you could just switch the device to be an Apple II.
02:20:36 ◼ ► - The Apple II was so popular. An awful lot of people went from the Apple II to Windows or to
02:20:52 ◼ ► where they were on the Apple II and they loved it, and then they went to the PC, and it was
02:20:55 ◼ ► only sort of in the 2000s with the iPod and the iMac and all of that that they came back
02:21:01 ◼ ► to Apple, but that they actually had a previous Apple experience in the old days with the
02:21:12 ◼ ► reasonable reasons, some just because it's human nature, you don't like change. But people
02:21:16 ◼ ► who got used to computers in the era, when you turned it on, and you had a cursor blinking
02:21:20 ◼ ► on screen where you had to type something to continue, saw the fact that the Mac didn't
02:21:25 ◼ ► have that and couldn't be configured to have that as a non starter, whereas you could get
02:21:36 ◼ ► way people, even when Windows was taking off and had millions of users, the way you got
02:22:01 ◼ ► there were good reasons for it. It actually made sense that Windows didn't start automatically.
02:22:06 ◼ ► Yeah, sometimes I felt, coming from the Apple II, sometimes I had those moments where I
02:22:10 ◼ ► would, and even when I was a Mac user, where I would be like, "Can I go back to DOS?" I
02:22:15 ◼ ► feel way more comfortable using a DOS command line than I do using Windows in that era.
02:22:23 ◼ ► me back to it. It's what it wants. It's what the machine wanted to use. Anyway, this has
02:22:28 ◼ ► has been a great show. I hope you have a good new year. I hope you're having a good holiday
02:22:44 ◼ ► You got great stuff recently. There's so much good stuff at sixcolors.com. You can spell
02:22:54 ◼ ► can't even we don't have time to list all of your podcasts but upgrade is certainly the one that
02:22:59 ◼ ► might be of most interest to uh to listeners of this show with you and uh mike hurley uh
02:23:05 ◼ ► there's the comparable weekly pop culture podcast i hear uh john cercusa was on a recent episode
02:23:12 ◼ ► yeah yeah he gets he's around he gets around that's he makes his pronouncements about movies
02:23:18 ◼ ► and things on on the incomparable and the other podcast that maybe talk show listeners want to try
02:23:24 ◼ ► out is relatively new, started in 2017 called Download. And that is I host that, but I try
02:23:40 ◼ ► the issues are. Sometimes it's details about what what Microsoft or Apple or Google did.
02:23:44 ◼ ► And sometimes like the most recent one, we talked about the ramifications of the Disney
02:23:50 ◼ ► Fox deal with a reporter from The Hollywood Reporter and a writer from Polygon and like
02:23:58 ◼ ► how the world streaming especially gets impacted by everything that Disney's doing and buying