The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► So we spent pretty much the whole beginning of the week together.

00:00:04 ◼   ► And it started, we had a wonderful dinner on Monday night with our mutual friend Michael

00:00:10 ◼   ► Lop, where you two wanted to talk entirely about Destiny 2, but all I wanted to talk

00:00:17 ◼   ► about is how is Apple going to pronounce the X in the name iPhone X, because the name had

00:00:21 ◼   ► leaked.

00:00:23 ◼   ► The name had leaked, and we had one and only one reason why they might call it iPhone X,

00:00:29 ◼   ► which was that we're 10 years away from the original iPhone.

00:00:32 ◼   ► And we came up with a list of like 15 good reasons

00:00:35 ◼   ► why they would pronounce it iPhone X.

00:00:40 ◼   ► And we just left the dinner like,

00:00:41 ◼   ► well, that's a settled deal.

00:00:43 ◼   ► It'll be iPhone X.

00:00:45 ◼   ► And then I stayed in the city, could not get a hotel.

00:00:49 ◼   ► It's bizarre that I could not get a hotel near Cupertino.

00:00:54 ◼   ► So I just stayed in the city and you swung by kindly

00:00:56 ◼   ► and picked me up the morning of the event.

00:00:58 ◼   ► and we drove down and as we're driving

00:01:00 ◼   ► from San Francisco to Cupertino,

00:01:02 ◼   ► I said, "You know what, I'm gonna write that up."

00:01:05 ◼   ► And right there in the front seat of Matthew's car,

00:01:08 ◼   ► I wrote the article I headlined X-Man,

00:01:12 ◼   ► explaining exactly and predicting,

00:01:16 ◼   ► only an hour before the event,

00:01:17 ◼   ► hour, two hours before the event,

00:01:18 ◼   ► exactly why I thought they were gonna call it iPhone X.

00:01:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:23 ◼   ► Well, it turned out--

00:01:25 ◼   ► - And you know, I was there to be the voice of reason

00:01:28 ◼   ► And I just didn't speak up.

00:01:29 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:01:30 ◼   ► Honestly, I bought in though.

00:01:31 ◼   ► I bought into your reasoning.

00:01:32 ◼   ► - No, we were all convinced.

00:01:35 ◼   ► I was the one who started Dinner Convinced

00:01:37 ◼   ► and you and Michael were both like,

00:01:39 ◼   ► I could see it both ways.

00:01:40 ◼   ► And by the end of it,

00:01:41 ◼   ► and half of the reasons I came up with,

00:01:43 ◼   ► I stole from you and Michael.

00:01:44 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:01:45 ◼   ► Like it wasn't just even my reasons.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Like, I'll take the heat for it,

00:01:49 ◼   ► but quite frankly, it should have been like--

00:01:51 ◼   ► - Crowd sourced.

00:01:52 ◼   ► - It should have been a three byline article.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Me, you and Michael Lop.

00:01:56 ◼   ► eating prime rib, deciding it was ugly.

00:02:00 ◼   ► - Oh my God, now I'm hungry.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I still am fine with it.

00:02:05 ◼   ► I'm fine with the logic behind the reasons.

00:02:09 ◼   ► But I think in the end,

00:02:10 ◼   ► I told somebody this the other day about something different.

00:02:13 ◼   ► It was something, some of the decision that Apple had made

00:02:16 ◼   ► or was going to make or whatever.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I said, you know, in the end,

00:02:19 ◼   ► there can be like lots of logical reasons

00:02:21 ◼   ► why X or Y or Z would be the choice that they would make,

00:02:26 ◼   ► But when it boils down to it, if you go back,

00:02:30 ◼   ► write up a scorecard of all the decisions they've ever made

00:02:33 ◼   ► and all of the things, all of the pre-thinking

00:02:36 ◼   ► that everybody put into, oh, what will they do?

00:02:37 ◼   ► What will they do?

00:02:38 ◼   ► In the end, they typically do the most,

00:02:40 ◼   ► absolutely the most obvious thing.

00:02:43 ◼   ► The most obvious thing is the thing that they do

00:02:45 ◼   ► because they're working at such enormous scale.

00:02:48 ◼   ► That's what makes sense typically.

00:02:50 ◼   ► So iPhone X, just, yeah, the other one was iPhone 8.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Why wouldn't we call this iPhone X?

00:02:55 ◼   ► That's just like logical.

00:02:57 ◼   ► - So I will say this, I ran into Phil Schiller

00:02:59 ◼   ► after the event and the first thing he said to me was,

00:03:03 ◼   ► "Hey John, sorry about the 10 thing."

00:03:06 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:03:09 ◼   ► Which blew my mind because I literally published it

00:03:12 ◼   ► like 90 minutes before the thing.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So how could he possibly have been aware of it?

00:03:17 ◼   ► 'Cause you'd think he would be like in like

00:03:19 ◼   ► concentration mode.

00:03:20 ◼   ► - A little busy, you would think.

00:03:23 ◼   ► - And he laughed and I laughed.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And then all he said was,

00:03:26 ◼   ► "We spent a lot of time on the name."

00:03:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:03:30 ◼   ► - And ended up back at one.

00:03:32 ◼   ► - Right, I think you're exactly right.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I feel like they probably did spend a lot of time

00:03:37 ◼   ► and they ended up at the most obvious thing possible.

00:03:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:03:42 ◼   ► - So the other--

00:03:42 ◼   ► - It was pretty good.

00:03:44 ◼   ► So yeah, you published it and we go,

00:03:45 ◼   ► we're so harried.

00:03:46 ◼   ► I mean, you and I are harried.

00:03:48 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:03:49 ◼   ► - Trying to find the place and get in,

00:03:51 ◼   ► 'cause it's brand new.

00:03:53 ◼   ► We're running into a literal blockade

00:03:55 ◼   ► 'cause they had blocked an entire street off.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And I got a rash of crap from Apple people

00:04:02 ◼   ► about using Waze instead of Apple Maps

00:04:04 ◼   ► 'cause they said that Apple Maps

00:04:05 ◼   ► would have directed me appropriately.

00:04:08 ◼   ► - This is too good of a story.

00:04:09 ◼   ► So we've plugged the address in.

00:04:12 ◼   ► And you and I both, when you get an invitation

00:04:15 ◼   ► to one of these events, somebody in Apple PR emails you.

00:04:20 ◼   ► There's somebody who's like your point person

00:04:23 ◼   ► and your, hey, if you have any questions,

00:04:25 ◼   ► contact me person, and it varies by event,

00:04:28 ◼   ► but that way everybody's taken care of,

00:04:29 ◼   ► and there's tons, I don't know how many people,

00:04:32 ◼   ► there are in Apple PR, but there's,

00:04:33 ◼   ► it's, you know, a pretty large group.

00:04:35 ◼   ► And you and I both had emails that seemed to imply

00:04:41 ◼   ► an unusual amount of familiarity.

00:04:43 ◼   ► It was just like, hey, we'll see you there.

00:04:46 ◼   ► You've got briefings the next day after the event,

00:04:50 ◼   ► or after the event at 11.15,

00:04:53 ◼   ► and we'll meet you at the cafe.

00:04:55 ◼   ► And it's like, well, where's the cafe?

00:04:57 ◼   ► - Oh yes, the cafe, got it.

00:04:59 ◼   ► - I have no idea.

00:05:00 ◼   ► It just implied an unusual amount of familiarity

00:05:03 ◼   ► with a campus that we obviously have no familiarity with,

00:05:06 ◼   ► but they did give us a street address,

00:05:08 ◼   ► and you plugged it into Waze, and we're going there,

00:05:11 ◼   ► and like you said, literally they had the street closed.

00:05:17 ◼   ► And it was obvious that it was Apple people

00:05:20 ◼   ► who had closed it, they're there manning it.

00:05:22 ◼   ► And we're looking at the--

00:05:23 ◼   ► - It was a mixture of people,

00:05:24 ◼   ► but some of them were definitely wearing that like,

00:05:27 ◼   ► white shirt, black pant, Apple security,

00:05:30 ◼   ► traffic control uniform.

00:05:32 ◼   ► - And from within the car, we gave like a,

00:05:34 ◼   ► "Hey, what do we do?"

00:05:36 ◼   ► And there was a woman who gave us sort of a,

00:05:38 ◼   ► "You can either go left or right."

00:05:39 ◼   ► And so we made a right, and next thing you know,

00:05:42 ◼   ► we're like--

00:05:43 ◼   ► - It was like, it was the "Wildly Coyote" thing.

00:05:44 ◼   ► like the two arms crossed pointing either direction,

00:05:49 ◼   ► like Alice in Wonderland, gesture cat, you can go this way.

00:05:53 ◼   ► So we made a choice.

00:05:55 ◼   ► - And we ended up behind, it was not the main building,

00:05:59 ◼   ► it's some of these peripheral buildings

00:06:02 ◼   ► that it's obviously part of the campus,

00:06:03 ◼   ► obviously new construction,

00:06:05 ◼   ► and the ones we were behind were obviously unfinished.

00:06:08 ◼   ► It was these buildings that run finished.

00:06:09 ◼   ► There was a garage back there,

00:06:11 ◼   ► But we were 100% certain that this is not

00:06:14 ◼   ► where we were supposed to go.

00:06:16 ◼   ► And so we both made some text, placed some text

00:06:18 ◼   ► to PR people, like, hey, what are we supposed to do?

00:06:22 ◼   ► So we got a call from Apple PR, and they were like,

00:06:26 ◼   ► you gotta go around the block.

00:06:28 ◼   ► And they were like, what are you using, Google Maps?

00:06:30 ◼   ► And I thought it was a joke from Apple.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I thought it was like, oh, that's just the type of joke

00:06:35 ◼   ► Apple would make. - Like, aha,

00:06:36 ◼   ► yeah, what are you using, Google Maps, get real.

00:06:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, but the truth is that Apple had seeded,

00:06:43 ◼   ► I guess in some way, Apple Maps,

00:06:45 ◼   ► with where if you plugged the address that they gave us in,

00:06:49 ◼   ► it was like 10600 Tantal Drive,

00:06:52 ◼   ► it would give you the exact right directions to get there.

00:06:55 ◼   ► And Google Maps literally led you right into the blockade.

00:07:00 ◼   ► So it really was the truth.

00:07:02 ◼   ► And it kind of reveals the thinking at Apple

00:07:04 ◼   ► where they're so on, you know,

00:07:08 ◼   ► it just didn't even occur to them

00:07:10 ◼   ► that people wouldn't be using Apple Maps.

00:07:13 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Like why are you lost?

00:07:16 ◼   ► Obviously you're using our first party mapping application

00:07:19 ◼   ► we spent billions of dollars to develop.

00:07:21 ◼   ► I mean why wouldn't you?

00:07:22 ◼   ► - Right, and that we literally spent time

00:07:24 ◼   ► before the event like routing people around it.

00:07:27 ◼   ► 'Cause you and I went back the next day

00:07:29 ◼   ► and the next day even Apple Maps led us that way.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Like they literally seemingly on the day of the event,

00:07:35 ◼   ► they changed Apple Maps driving directions

00:07:37 ◼   ► to get you around the street blockade

00:07:39 ◼   ► that they set up for one day.

00:07:40 ◼   ► - To make sure everybody ended up on the right side

00:07:42 ◼   ► of the blockade to get directions

00:07:43 ◼   ► and park appropriately and all that, which was fine.

00:07:45 ◼   ► We literally had to go around Apple Park.

00:07:47 ◼   ► We drove around the perimeter of Apple Park

00:07:49 ◼   ► and ended up in the right spot.

00:07:51 ◼   ► But it was just one of those things where you go,

00:07:53 ◼   ► oh yeah, they make the map.

00:07:54 ◼   ► They can just make the map point wherever they want.

00:07:56 ◼   ► - Right, so literally instead of like sending us

00:07:59 ◼   ► those explicit directions in the email,

00:08:01 ◼   ► they just presumed that we'd be using Apple Maps

00:08:04 ◼   ► and they just put it into Apple Maps,

00:08:05 ◼   ► which I found incredibly amusing.

00:08:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I just got razzed by it the entire day,

00:08:14 ◼   ► 'cause apparently they shared the information with everybody.

00:08:19 ◼   ► The person I texted shared it with the whole PR team

00:08:22 ◼   ► and everybody was very aware that I was using

00:08:24 ◼   ► a Google product to try and navigate my way to Apple Park.

00:08:28 ◼   ► - Right, every single person at Apple PR

00:08:30 ◼   ► who came up to you the rest of the day was like,

00:08:32 ◼   ► what's wrong with you, why do you use Google Maps?

00:08:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:36 ◼   ► - I'm sure we're right up the chain.

00:08:38 ◼   ► - Right, their back channel must be, is quite efficient.

00:08:42 ◼   ► - Right, yep.

00:08:46 ◼   ► - All right, so we do get there.

00:08:49 ◼   ► And it's effectively where they wanted us to park

00:08:53 ◼   ► was at the new visitor center.

00:08:54 ◼   ► And the visitor center is across a street

00:08:57 ◼   ► from the block where the main building is, the ring.

00:09:02 ◼   ► And the Steve Jobs Theater is also across that same street,

00:09:07 ◼   ► but it is wholly separate.

00:09:10 ◼   ► I mean, it's quite a distance from the main building.

00:09:14 ◼   ► So-- - Yeah, the Steve Jobs Theater

00:09:16 ◼   ► is inside the fence of the compound.

00:09:21 ◼   ► - Right. - You know, where Apple,

00:09:22 ◼   ► it's in Apple Park, right?

00:09:24 ◼   ► If you wanna call Apple Park

00:09:25 ◼   ► the literal park land that they built.

00:09:27 ◼   ► And then the visitor center is across a small,

00:09:31 ◼   ► but street that separates that park

00:09:35 ◼   ► from ancillary buildings.

00:09:37 ◼   ► - Right.

00:09:38 ◼   ► So it's fundamentally a different layout

00:09:44 ◼   ► than Infinite Loop was, where there's now a store

00:09:48 ◼   ► at Infinite Loop.

00:09:49 ◼   ► There was always sort of a company store,

00:09:51 ◼   ► but it wasn't really, it was different than the Apple store,

00:09:53 ◼   ► but now it's like a real Apple store.

00:09:55 ◼   ► But the Apple store-- - That Apple park, right.

00:09:58 ◼   ► - Well, no, but the old campus at Infinite Loop,

00:10:00 ◼   ► the store is literally in-- - Oh, right, yes.

00:10:03 ◼   ► The company store, right.

00:10:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's in and always was in one of the buildings.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Like if you went to Infinite Loop,

00:10:10 ◼   ► the old campus, you wanted to see it,

00:10:12 ◼   ► you were there in a building.

00:10:14 ◼   ► I mean, obviously, there's no back door of the store

00:10:17 ◼   ► where you could go into a secure area.

00:10:19 ◼   ► It's only like from the sidewalk,

00:10:21 ◼   ► It's like parking lot sidewalk, now you're in the store.

00:10:24 ◼   ► But you were fundamentally in a building full of,

00:10:27 ◼   ► where there were Apple employees above you

00:10:29 ◼   ► secretly working on Apple stuff.

00:10:31 ◼   ► Whereas now the visitor center is, it's contained.

00:10:36 ◼   ► - It's separated by an asphalt moat

00:10:39 ◼   ► from anywhere that work is being done.

00:10:41 ◼   ► - Right, there is no chance of contamination.

00:10:44 ◼   ► And even with the press--

00:10:46 ◼   ► - I wonder if they'll close the other one.

00:10:48 ◼   ► I wonder if they'll close the other store.

00:10:49 ◼   ► - I don't know, that's a very good question.

00:10:51 ◼   ► I would guess that they will.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - 'Cause this store is nice, it's a broad open layout

00:10:56 ◼   ► with the tall glass walls, just like a new Design Apple store

00:11:01 ◼   ► and the other one is not, you know,

00:11:02 ◼   ► they kind of updated it recently, but not,

00:11:04 ◼   ► it's not a crazy update.

00:11:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that they probably will, right?

00:11:07 ◼   ► But maybe they'll keep 'em both open for a bit,

00:11:10 ◼   ► but I would guess that they'll close the other one

00:11:12 ◼   ► and sort of, it's a good question,

00:11:17 ◼   ► 'Cause they're obviously, Infinite Loop is staying occupied.

00:11:20 ◼   ► They need all of the space.

00:11:22 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Yeah, they're already full, yeah.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - They're not moving from Infinite Loop to Apple Park.

00:11:30 ◼   ► They're just sort of like,

00:11:31 ◼   ► they're like bulged into their current office space

00:11:35 ◼   ► and they're just sort of like, let out the excess.

00:11:37 ◼   ► - Doubling up on desks and stuff, yeah.

00:11:40 ◼   ► - I would guess that they will close the store

00:11:42 ◼   ► at Infinite Loop.

00:11:43 ◼   ► I don't know though, that's a good question.

00:11:46 ◼   ► - It's definitely, and even with the press too.

00:11:49 ◼   ► So it's A, just the random riffraff who want to pay homage

00:11:53 ◼   ► and come to Apple's headquarters and buy some T-shirts.

00:11:56 ◼   ► You are not really in the real building now.

00:12:01 ◼   ► It is an entirely self-contained building,

00:12:03 ◼   ► like you said, across an asphalt moat.

00:12:05 ◼   ► And even the theater, even the press,

00:12:07 ◼   ► are no longer like in the compound.

00:12:11 ◼   ► Like you can't complain about the theater.

00:12:14 ◼   ► And we can talk about it in detail.

00:12:15 ◼   ► The theater is exquisite and it is nice,

00:12:18 ◼   ► but it is absolutely, positively not

00:12:21 ◼   ► you know, near the main building.

00:12:25 ◼   ► - No, it's the standing at the theater

00:12:28 ◼   ► and looking towards the main building

00:12:30 ◼   ► is the equivalent of looking across

00:12:33 ◼   ► probably a football field's worth of grass and rolling.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - I would say even--

00:12:39 ◼   ► - Or just freshly seeded grass.

00:12:41 ◼   ► - I would say--

00:12:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably a couple of football fields, right?

00:12:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's like a par four, yeah.

00:12:45 ◼   ► It's at least like three or four hundred yards.

00:12:48 ◼   ► - Right, it is.

00:12:50 ◼   ► And it's still massive at that distance,

00:12:52 ◼   ► which says something about the scale of the building.

00:12:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it is true, like the way that we drove in

00:12:57 ◼   ► where we got turned around at this blockade

00:12:59 ◼   ► and had to go around, effectively what we had to do

00:13:01 ◼   ► is drive all the way around the Apple Park,

00:13:04 ◼   ► all the way around.

00:13:06 ◼   ► And the Vantage, you know it's a big building.

00:13:11 ◼   ► Everybody knows it's a big building,

00:13:12 ◼   ► But it's really kind of stunning driving right by it,

00:13:17 ◼   ► just how massive it is.

00:13:18 ◼   ► It really, it's just,

00:13:21 ◼   ► whether you like the way it looks or not,

00:13:24 ◼   ► it's truly magnificent in terms of just the scale of it.

00:13:28 ◼   ► - Right, and I think we're used to seeing

00:13:31 ◼   ► a lot of buildings that are vertical,

00:13:33 ◼   ► especially in the city, right?

00:13:35 ◼   ► So you're next to a big building in New York

00:13:38 ◼   ► or even downtown San Francisco or whatever,

00:13:41 ◼   ► and you look straight up and you're like,

00:13:42 ◼   ► "Wow, look at that, it's a skyscraper, it's really tall."

00:13:45 ◼   ► I mean, Seals Force Tower in San Francisco is enormous,

00:13:47 ◼   ► it dominates the skyline now.

00:13:49 ◼   ► But this is a different kind of scale

00:13:52 ◼   ► because it's so broad and massive.

00:13:55 ◼   ► It's just like, there's a lot of mass there,

00:13:57 ◼   ► it's very broad, and something with a circular nature of it

00:14:00 ◼   ► when you're up next to it, like when we're driving next to it

00:14:03 ◼   ► and looking to our left at a point at which

00:14:05 ◼   ► it was fairly close to the street, you know,

00:14:09 ◼   ► 'cause it kind of grazes the street

00:14:10 ◼   ► on a couple of dimensions.

00:14:12 ◼   ► and when you look that way, it curves away into the distance

00:14:15 ◼   ► like it's heading towards the horizon.

00:14:17 ◼   ► - Right.

00:14:18 ◼   ► - The curve almost gives you a greater sense of size

00:14:22 ◼   ► and scale than if it's a squared off corner.

00:14:25 ◼   ► You're like, oh, that's where it ends.

00:14:26 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:14:27 ◼   ► - There's literally no end in sight.

00:14:28 ◼   ► - I don't know what to compare it to

00:14:30 ◼   ► 'cause I've never seen a building,

00:14:32 ◼   ► I've never seen anything like it.

00:14:34 ◼   ► I really haven't.

00:14:34 ◼   ► I've seen many towers.

00:14:35 ◼   ► - It's kind of like Epcot.

00:14:37 ◼   ► Like when you get close to Epcot maybe

00:14:39 ◼   ► or something like that, one of those types of buildings

00:14:41 ◼   ► where it's a themed building that's built specifically

00:14:44 ◼   ► to be massive.

00:14:45 ◼   ► - I don't know, it's just so, it really seems almost,

00:14:48 ◼   ► it's so, I've thought of this before,

00:14:51 ◼   ► but now having seen it in person, it is,

00:14:55 ◼   ► it's so funny that the old campus was named Infinite Loop,

00:14:59 ◼   ► which is a programming pun, but my God,

00:15:02 ◼   ► would Infinite Loop be a better,

00:15:04 ◼   ► a perfect name for that building.

00:15:06 ◼   ► - Right, it's a literal infinite loop.

00:15:09 ◼   ► - When you're looking at it at Street View,

00:15:10 ◼   ► up against it. It really seems as though it just is infinite. Like you said, it just goes off into

00:15:16 ◼   ► the horizon. It's like you can't even see where it ends. It's truly magnificent.

00:15:21 ◼   ► And that's as close as we got to the main building. I mean, that's as close as anybody

00:15:27 ◼   ► was able to get is outside the fence looking towards it. You know, the theater, obviously,

00:15:32 ◼   ► quite a bit further away even. So that's as close as we got to see it, but it was pretty big.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah, in recent years, and I do think it correlates directly, I'm like 99% sure it correlates

00:15:45 ◼   ► directly to the Katie Cotton era and the Steve Dowling era of Apple PR, where in the Katie

00:15:53 ◼   ► Cotton era, when we had events at town hall at the old campus, you came in the front door,

00:16:00 ◼   ► and then you went out the front door.

00:16:03 ◼   ► And that was it.

00:16:04 ◼   ► So you got to park in the Apple parking lot

00:16:07 ◼   ► and you got to walk on an Apple sidewalk

00:16:10 ◼   ► and you came in a door and there was a lobby

00:16:12 ◼   ► and you'd go in and even if you had briefings or something,

00:16:16 ◼   ► if you had meetings after the event,

00:16:17 ◼   ► you were in the same building

00:16:19 ◼   ► and you just went up the stairs.

00:16:20 ◼   ► And then the only door that you could leave by

00:16:22 ◼   ► was the one that put you back on the sidewalk,

00:16:25 ◼   ► back in the parking lot.

00:16:26 ◼   ► And in the last, I don't know, three years or so

00:16:30 ◼   ► when they've had events at town hall,

00:16:31 ◼   ► they've let us in the main entrance.

00:16:34 ◼   ► I forget which building it is,

00:16:37 ◼   ► but instead of going in the building where Town Hall is,

00:16:39 ◼   ► they let us in a nicer building,

00:16:41 ◼   ► and then you can walk through the courtyard

00:16:44 ◼   ► in the middle of the campus,

00:16:45 ◼   ► and they'd have some food and coffee outdoors.

00:16:51 ◼   ► It was a nicer spread,

00:16:53 ◼   ► and you felt like you were actually inside.

00:16:56 ◼   ► But every step of the way,

00:16:57 ◼   ► there were T-shirted Apple employees.

00:17:01 ◼   ► It did feel more hospitable, but it was also very clear that every step of the way, I mean

00:17:08 ◼   ► literally like every 10 feet, there was an Apple employee to make sure nobody wandered

00:17:12 ◼   ► off.

00:17:13 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:17:14 ◼   ► Even though the buildings are access controlled, there's a first line of defense.

00:17:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Just to make sure nobody even accidentally wanders off the path that was laid out for

00:17:25 ◼   ► the outsiders to go from A to B. There will be none of that at the Apple park.

00:17:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:17:33 ◼   ► - The line of people in Apple Park that were there

00:17:42 ◼   ► to do roughly the same thing,

00:17:44 ◼   ► keep people moving and make sure they didn't wander off

00:17:47 ◼   ► into the, literally the woods where 9,000 trees

00:17:49 ◼   ► or whatever are planted.

00:17:51 ◼   ► But they were there maybe every 10 to 15 feet

00:17:56 ◼   ► and they were very aggressive about saying hello

00:18:00 ◼   ► and hoping you had a good day,

00:18:02 ◼   ► and how are you enjoying everything?

00:18:04 ◼   ► But literally every single person was doing it.

00:18:07 ◼   ► After a while, it's a little bit like,

00:18:08 ◼   ► okay, oh, we're doing this again, okay, good.

00:18:11 ◼   ► So I just started to go on the offense,

00:18:13 ◼   ► and I would just preemptively,

00:18:14 ◼   ► right before I crossed the threshold of attention,

00:18:17 ◼   ► I would say, hey, how are you doing?

00:18:21 ◼   ► And they were a little thrown off their script

00:18:22 ◼   ► because they were, oh, fine, yeah.

00:18:25 ◼   ► I was like, please leave me, it's like a mace.

00:18:28 ◼   ► They're gonna mace them with kindness.

00:18:30 ◼   ► - So the Steve Jobs Theater itself is truly magnificent.

00:18:37 ◼   ► I don't have enough superlatives for at least aesthetically

00:18:42 ◼   ► how pleasing a building it is, how striking it is.

00:18:46 ◼   ► I guess I knew this.

00:18:48 ◼   ► I mean, there's renderings of it, but then you see it.

00:18:51 ◼   ► And I realized that carbon fiber is a lightweight material.

00:18:55 ◼   ► That's what makes it so interesting.

00:18:57 ◼   ► and this is like the largest carbon fiber roof

00:19:00 ◼   ► of any building in the world apparently.

00:19:03 ◼   ► But the lobby of the theater is a circular pavilion,

00:19:09 ◼   ► for lack of a better word, enclosed in glass

00:19:12 ◼   ► with a carbon fiber roof,

00:19:14 ◼   ► and there's literally no columns supporting the roof.

00:19:19 ◼   ► It's wholly supported by the glass walls.

00:19:22 ◼   ► And when you realize, I didn't really,

00:19:26 ◼   ► It wasn't as striking when we got there in the morning,

00:19:28 ◼   ► 'cause we got there around 8.30,

00:19:30 ◼   ► it was like an hour and a half before the event,

00:19:32 ◼   ► and it was already jam-packed.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Like, you know, there were hundreds of people

00:19:36 ◼   ► who were already there.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And when you're in a room filled with people,

00:19:41 ◼   ► and there were people outside it on the sidewalk,

00:19:44 ◼   ► 'cause that's where they had the food and coffee,

00:19:46 ◼   ► when you're surrounded by that many people,

00:19:47 ◼   ► you see the people.

00:19:48 ◼   ► And it was only when we left in the afternoon,

00:19:51 ◼   ► after most of it was cleared out,

00:19:53 ◼   ► and I took a really cool photo

00:19:55 ◼   ► where there weren't even any people in the sight line

00:19:58 ◼   ► of the camera anymore.

00:20:00 ◼   ► When it was mostly empty is really when it was striking,

00:20:02 ◼   ► like, holy hell, what is holding this roof up?

00:20:07 ◼   ► It's, architecturally and engineering-wise, it is a marvel.

00:20:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, when you're standing in the building,

00:20:15 ◼   ► especially when you walk right in the doors

00:20:17 ◼   ► and nobody's in there or come up the stairs

00:20:20 ◼   ► and nobody's in there, the feeling of openness

00:20:22 ◼   ► and outside in, obviously, was the whole point of it.

00:20:27 ◼   ► It really is impactful.

00:20:29 ◼   ► And the only thing that obstructs your sight line

00:20:32 ◼   ► in any direction, because there are no physical supports

00:20:34 ◼   ► beyond the glass itself, is the elevator.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And that comes up out of the floor.

00:20:39 ◼   ► But even the stairwells, there's only a slight wedge,

00:20:44 ◼   ► and then they just sink into the ground.

00:20:46 ◼   ► There's not like a big boxy, oh, here a stairwell begins.

00:20:51 ◼   ► they're cut into the ground, so to speak.

00:20:53 ◼   ► So it's quite interesting.

00:20:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, somebody commenting on my photo said,

00:20:56 ◼   ► it looks like the lair of a Bond villain.

00:20:59 ◼   ► And it truly does.

00:21:02 ◼   ► I mean, it's, and the stairs really do,

00:21:05 ◼   ► it was sort of like when I first got there,

00:21:06 ◼   ► I was like, where the hell are the stairs?

00:21:08 ◼   ► I didn't even, I couldn't even tell where they were.

00:21:11 ◼   ► It's sort of, it's freaky almost, I don't know.

00:21:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's one of those buildings where,

00:21:20 ◼   ► and I like architecture a little bit

00:21:22 ◼   ► and pay attention to it when I can, when I'm traveling.

00:21:25 ◼   ► And it's one of those buildings that you look at

00:21:26 ◼   ► and you go, you know what,

00:21:27 ◼   ► somebody's definitely gonna use this in a movie, right?

00:21:30 ◼   ► But Apple's not the kind of company,

00:21:32 ◼   ► they don't need people to use it in movies,

00:21:34 ◼   ► so it probably will not get used in a movie,

00:21:36 ◼   ► but it's one of those pieces of architecture

00:21:39 ◼   ► where you go, oh wow, some site researcher

00:21:44 ◼   ► would love this place.

00:21:46 ◼   ► You'd be like, oh, we could shoot a scene here.

00:21:48 ◼   ► And yeah, it could definitely like slot into a Bond film like, oh, this is the entrance to the lair.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Yeah. So we, you know, it gets the time, you know, the word spreads that they're letting people in,

00:22:00 ◼   ► it's time to go. You descend the staircase. The handrails to the staircase are literally carved

00:22:08 ◼   ► out of the walls. It is, it feels like it's carved out of stone. It's not stone. It's some kind of

00:22:16 ◼   ► artificial, I forget the name of it. I found out the name of it, but it's, it's the same surface

00:22:21 ◼   ► that's like an expensive kitchen countertop surface, surface. But the effect of having them

00:22:27 ◼   ► carved out of the wall, it feels like you're in that, that temple in the Indiana Jones and the

00:22:33 ◼   ► last crusade, you know, that's carved into the mountain. It really feels like the theater is

00:22:38 ◼   ► carved into the ground. Not that it is an underground theater, but that it's carved out of,

00:22:45 ◼   ► you know, a massive block of marble or something that was on the site for millennia. It really is

00:22:52 ◼   ► the effect that you get. And it's funny, like I've had a bunch of questions about the hidden

00:23:00 ◼   ► hands-on area where people are like they don't understand. They don't understand what we're

00:23:06 ◼   ► saying when we say that there's this retractable door, but it doesn't look like something is hidden.

00:23:12 ◼   ► It just looks like that's the way it's supposed to be when we went in and then when the show was over and we went back

00:23:17 ◼   ► the wall was gone and

00:23:19 ◼   ► There's the hands-on area but the bet the best expert, you know, excellent visual explanation

00:23:25 ◼   ► I can think of is is Dan Fromer's photo essay at

00:23:28 ◼   ► At recode he had before and after shots that I think show it about as well as it can be shown

00:23:33 ◼   ► So I will put a link to the show notes and I linked to it from during fireball earlier, but it it is quite a thing

00:23:40 ◼   ► Yeah, and that area that, you know, display area that they had for the hands-on stuff is completely hidden.

00:23:51 ◼   ► And I think there were some architectural renderings or, you know, some plans or something at some point that, or maybe even early shots that somebody had posted to the internet a few weeks ago.

00:24:02 ◼   ► ago and in those shots it makes it look like there's a wall that retracts away

00:24:08 ◼   ► like you know kind of a slightly curved wall that maybe retracts left to right

00:24:12 ◼   ► or splits or whatever and then you're led into a separate room for the demo

00:24:18 ◼   ► area and there and people were wondering out loud how are they gonna hide that

00:24:21 ◼   ► area when you walk down the stairs and you come in how are they going to make

00:24:26 ◼   ► it so that you can't see what's in there as you walk into the theater because it

00:24:30 ◼   ► literally shares the same space. You walk down the stairs and through the doors

00:24:34 ◼   ► into or through the opening into the theater which is even further

00:24:37 ◼   ► underground and that area is right there. You know you're boom you walk into it

00:24:42 ◼   ► and so people were wondering how are they going to obscure it and of course

00:24:46 ◼   ► once you come down the stairs we came down and it was immediately obvious the

00:24:50 ◼   ► way they obscure it is that it's an entire cylinder. It's not just a wall

00:24:55 ◼   ► it's a cylinder that wraps all the way around the exhibition area I think they

00:25:00 ◼   ► call it, our exhibit area. And that exhibit area is completely closed off by a column

00:25:06 ◼   ► of metal paneling that matches the paneling of course used above, at least in its aesthetics.

00:25:14 ◼   ► And that's it. You walk by this huge metal cylinder and into the theater, but you get

00:25:19 ◼   ► no glimpse of anything inside the cylinder when you walk by it.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - Right, because this cylindrical wall,

00:25:26 ◼   ► I don't know how you would just,

00:25:29 ◼   ► it's sort of like an,

00:25:30 ◼   ► escalator's a bad comparison,

00:25:33 ◼   ► but there's, I don't know, five or six foot wide panels

00:25:38 ◼   ► with I guess some kind of hinge between them,

00:25:40 ◼   ► which is how it rotates.

00:25:42 ◼   ► But when it's hidden,

00:25:45 ◼   ► when it's open and the exhibit area is open,

00:25:49 ◼   ► you would never think that it's possible

00:25:51 ◼   ► that there's a wall that could slide out and hide it

00:25:53 ◼   ► and when it's hidden,

00:25:54 ◼   ► you would never think there's a room behind there.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It just looks like this is like a big column

00:26:00 ◼   ► that supports the lobby above us.

00:26:01 ◼   ► - Right, exactly.

00:26:05 ◼   ► And it like it was built, you know,

00:26:07 ◼   ► built into the building and not meant to move at all.

00:26:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, it looks right both ways is what I'm trying to say.

00:26:13 ◼   ► All right, and we go into the theater itself

00:26:17 ◼   ► and the theater itself is just fantastic

00:26:21 ◼   ► every single thing about it.

00:26:22 ◼   ► The seats are like plush leather, they are comfortable,

00:26:27 ◼   ► there is truly a generous amount of leg room

00:26:31 ◼   ► between the rows.

00:26:33 ◼   ► All of the back area, every seat has power.

00:26:39 ◼   ► We sat a little bit closer like at the back row

00:26:41 ◼   ► of the front area, which was more like couch seating almost.

00:26:46 ◼   ► It wasn't even like we had individual theater seats,

00:26:49 ◼   ► It was sort of like, it was more like a bench,

00:26:52 ◼   ► but it was so spacious that it's more like

00:26:54 ◼   ► sitting on a sofa.

00:26:55 ◼   ► It was kind of crazy comfortable.

00:26:59 ◼   ► Which is--

00:27:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was, it was.

00:27:01 ◼   ► It felt a lot like a car seat, it really did.

00:27:04 ◼   ► It felt like a luxurious, spacious bench seat

00:27:08 ◼   ► of a luxury automobile.

00:27:10 ◼   ► One that you have a driver for.

00:27:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, and they even had the armrests

00:27:14 ◼   ► that popped back into the seat,

00:27:17 ◼   ► so you can keep them all up

00:27:19 ◼   ► and then there's more room for seating.

00:27:21 ◼   ► But if you have room and there's nobody next to you,

00:27:23 ◼   ► there was like a big plush automobile style armrest

00:27:28 ◼   ► that you can retract down from the seat.

00:27:30 ◼   ► It was...

00:27:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's got the little loop

00:27:34 ◼   ► that you hook your finger through and pull down,

00:27:36 ◼   ► just like a back car seat.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I pulled it down, but no cup holders.

00:27:40 ◼   ► It definitely was a European car, not an American car.

00:27:45 ◼   ► - So the blueprints for all of this, I guess,

00:27:47 ◼   ► have to be released publicly, I don't know, to get approval.

00:27:50 ◼   ► So like, I'm sure Apple, if they could have,

00:27:52 ◼   ► would have kept everything even more secret.

00:27:55 ◼   ► But the blueprints for this were already out,

00:27:57 ◼   ► and I had seen them.

00:27:58 ◼   ► But I'm particularly terrible, I think,

00:28:01 ◼   ► at looking at blueprints for a building

00:28:03 ◼   ► and visualizing what it actually is like to be there.

00:28:06 ◼   ► And when I saw the theater on blueprint,

00:28:08 ◼   ► I thought, well, that looks like

00:28:09 ◼   ► it has an unusually low ceiling.

00:28:11 ◼   ► And I was like, well, I guess that's what happens

00:28:13 ◼   ► when you build it underground, but that seems weird.

00:28:15 ◼   ► But when you're in there, I mean, that ceiling is cavernous.

00:28:19 ◼   ► It is like being in a cathedral.

00:28:21 ◼   ► My reading of the blueprint was obviously

00:28:24 ◼   ► totally dipshit wrong.

00:28:25 ◼   ► It's just a truly, truly cavernous space.

00:28:30 ◼   ► - The lowest point is when you're walking through

00:28:33 ◼   ► the short tunnel, or whatever you wanna call it,

00:28:35 ◼   ► the transition area from the exhibit area

00:28:38 ◼   ► to the theater itself is, when I say low,

00:28:41 ◼   ► it's like a 12-foot or whatever ceiling.

00:28:44 ◼   ► that's the lowest point and from there,

00:28:47 ◼   ► you know, the theater slopes down,

00:28:50 ◼   ► way down in a amphitheater style seating.

00:28:54 ◼   ► So by the time you get to the bottom sections,

00:28:56 ◼   ► the ceiling is quite high above you.

00:28:58 ◼   ► And I can't remember off the top of my head,

00:29:01 ◼   ► but I'm almost positive it's cut upwards as well.

00:29:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so. - To meet the top

00:29:05 ◼   ► of the screen.

00:29:06 ◼   ► 'Cause you know, they have projectors

00:29:07 ◼   ► and all kinds of other stuff that they need to mount.

00:29:09 ◼   ► And so I'm sure it goes upwards on the ceiling as well,

00:29:12 ◼   ► as you go towards the screens.

00:29:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I noticed that there's a lot less

00:29:19 ◼   ► visual, visually exposed like stage lighting.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Like they know what kind of shows

00:29:28 ◼   ► they're gonna put on there.

00:29:29 ◼   ► So they don't really need like a lighting rig

00:29:32 ◼   ► that could accommodate anything and everything.

00:29:35 ◼   ► I don't know, or else they just spent, I don't know.

00:29:37 ◼   ► It seems like they hid a lot of the lighting stuff

00:29:42 ◼   ► that when you look up in a theater nowadays that you see,

00:29:46 ◼   ► 'cause it's like, what else are you gonna do?

00:29:47 ◼   ► It's up there.

00:29:48 ◼   ► It's just like instead that even the ceiling of the theater

00:29:51 ◼   ► was cleaner and more,

00:29:54 ◼   ► just simpler than any theater I've seen before.

00:30:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, when you build up a spoke

00:30:02 ◼   ► and you know exactly what it's gonna be used for,

00:30:04 ◼   ► I mean, theaters, remember, have to be multipurpose.

00:30:06 ◼   ► They have to be music venues and in true theaters

00:30:11 ◼   ► to support different kinds of lighting rigs.

00:30:12 ◼   ► And essentially something like a contact point, right?

00:30:17 ◼   ► That's what these trusses are in a normal theater

00:30:20 ◼   ► where you're like, hey look,

00:30:21 ◼   ► you've got 180 different possible contact points here

00:30:23 ◼   ► that you can hang whatever you want from.

00:30:25 ◼   ► Lights or strobes or speakers or whatever.

00:30:28 ◼   ► And then that's what the grips come along

00:30:31 ◼   ► and get all that set up.

00:30:32 ◼   ► But in this theater, they know exactly,

00:30:35 ◼   ► precisely what it's gonna be used for.

00:30:37 ◼   ► So they probably just put in exactly what they needed

00:30:39 ◼   ► and no more, you know?

00:30:41 ◼   ► And it probably allowed them to build it directly in

00:30:43 ◼   ► rather than having a universal rigging.

00:30:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was kind of curious what, going into it,

00:30:48 ◼   ► I was kind of curious what the screen would look like

00:30:52 ◼   ► because they could do anything.

00:30:54 ◼   ► It's their theater.

00:30:55 ◼   ► They could make like some kind of wraparound screen,

00:30:57 ◼   ► a curved screen that takes up the whole front of the stage.

00:31:00 ◼   ► They could put three screens up there,

00:31:02 ◼   ► you know, one on the left, one on the right,

00:31:04 ◼   ► one in the middle.

00:31:06 ◼   ► And again, like your thing before,

00:31:10 ◼   ► your observation that usually they just do

00:31:12 ◼   ► the simplest and most obvious thing possible

00:31:14 ◼   ► is they just had one rectangular flat screen

00:31:19 ◼   ► in the middle of the back of the stage

00:31:22 ◼   ► and it's just really, really fucking nice.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Right, like what is the simplest

00:31:27 ◼   ► and most obvious thing they could do?

00:31:28 ◼   ► Just put a really nice fucking screen,

00:31:31 ◼   ► rectangular, flat, right in the middle of the fucking stage.

00:31:33 ◼   ► And it was magnificent.

00:31:36 ◼   ► And the audio quality, I mean, it was crazy, right?

00:31:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was very good.

00:31:42 ◼   ► It was very good.

00:31:43 ◼   ► I mean, like I've listened to, I've seen movies,

00:31:47 ◼   ► you know, like they do this every once in a while,

00:31:49 ◼   ► the Dolby Atmos will put on a presentation and say like,

00:31:52 ◼   ► "Hey, you know, we helped with the sound design

00:31:54 ◼   ► "on this movie," or "We think this shows off

00:31:56 ◼   ► "our system really well, you can come look,

00:31:57 ◼   ► "check out our screening."

00:31:59 ◼   ► There's some Dolby Atmos theater in San Francisco

00:32:01 ◼   ► that people can go to.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And that is obviously top shelf sound.

00:32:06 ◼   ► And I don't know if it was quite at most level

00:32:08 ◼   ► 'cause it doesn't need to be necessarily a home theater

00:32:11 ◼   ► or theater type setup, but it was close.

00:32:13 ◼   ► It was really crisp, really booming.

00:32:16 ◼   ► And when they had the segments with music,

00:32:18 ◼   ► like the commercials and things like that,

00:32:20 ◼   ► the ad spots that they had with obviously mostly music

00:32:24 ◼   ► in those things, I definitely felt the rumble

00:32:26 ◼   ► through my seat.

00:32:27 ◼   ► It felt like there was some, probably some subwoofers

00:32:30 ◼   ► built in somewhere under the seats.

00:32:32 ◼   ► It was good.

00:32:33 ◼   ► The sonic aspect of it was really, really solid.

00:32:36 ◼   ► - I noticed that it was the first time

00:32:38 ◼   ► since they've gone to high dynamic range displays

00:32:42 ◼   ► where during the keynote they didn't have to say,

00:32:44 ◼   ► now we can't show you this because the screen can't show it.

00:32:47 ◼   ► And instead they could show you what it looks like

00:32:52 ◼   ► with high dynamic range versus--

00:32:53 ◼   ► - Right, we're gonna switch over to our HDR,

00:32:55 ◼   ► top of the line projectors with 4K

00:32:59 ◼   ► and all of the stuff and just show you it right here.

00:33:01 ◼   ► Instead of going, you'll just have to imagine

00:33:04 ◼   ► that this looks better.

00:33:05 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's pricey.

00:33:08 ◼   ► - I would, I don't even want to tell you

00:33:10 ◼   ► how much money I would pay to see Star Wars Episode VIII

00:33:14 ◼   ► in that theater.

00:33:16 ◼   ► Like, to get a center anywhere.

00:33:18 ◼   ► I don't care if I'm in the back row,

00:33:19 ◼   ► but anywhere near the center in that theater

00:33:23 ◼   ► is where I would love to see Star Wars Episode VIII

00:33:26 ◼   ► because it is the nicest theater I've ever seen in my life.

00:33:30 ◼   ► It's truly, truly magnificent.

00:33:32 ◼   ► All right, let's take a break,

00:33:35 ◼   ► and I'm gonna thank our first sponsor.

00:33:36 ◼   ► Now we can talk about what a shit-show-the-hands-on area was.

00:33:39 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:33:41 ◼   ► - Yes, let's.

00:33:42 ◼   ► - All right, our first sponsor is Eero, E-E-R-O.

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00:35:27 ◼   ► now you've got three networks

00:35:28 ◼   ► and you're switching networks or something like that.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Like your devices, you just sign in to your network

00:35:33 ◼   ► and like your phone or your MacBook or whatever it is

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00:37:16 ◼   ► Okay, hands-on area after the show.

00:37:18 ◼   ► - My kid loves to pull out my ear on the wall.

00:37:22 ◼   ► - Pull it out of the wall.

00:37:23 ◼   ► - 'Cause he can reach, yeah, he can reach.

00:37:25 ◼   ► One of them is in the bathroom,

00:37:27 ◼   ► and it has the nightlight on it,

00:37:28 ◼   ► so he's like, ah, and he yanks it out.

00:37:30 ◼   ► And half part of my mesh goes down.

00:37:32 ◼   ► I'm like, dang it.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Like, literally, my internet will get slower.

00:37:37 ◼   ► I'm like, what happened?

00:37:37 ◼   ► I'm like, oh.

00:37:39 ◼   ► - You know what, they are-- - Sorry, I digress.

00:37:40 ◼   ► But they're adorable little things.

00:37:43 ◼   ► I can see why he's drawn to it, because it is sort of like,

00:37:47 ◼   ► I don't know, it's sort of like the same industrial design

00:37:49 ◼   ► as like Eve from Wall-E, you know?

00:37:51 ◼   ► It's just this sort of--

00:37:53 ◼   ► And it's light up, you know?

00:37:55 ◼   ► And he can reach it, all of the things.

00:37:56 ◼   ► It's got all the good things that he likes.

00:37:59 ◼   ► It's light up, he can reach it, and it comes apart.

00:38:03 ◼   ► It's really nice to touch.

00:38:05 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:38:06 ◼   ► Hands on, hands on.

00:38:07 ◼   ► All right, so the hands on area.

00:38:09 ◼   ► I linked to a picture Brad Ellis linked to

00:38:11 ◼   ► where he observed that the tables for the hands-on area

00:38:15 ◼   ► are concentric with the walls,

00:38:18 ◼   ► the round walls of the atrium of that hands-on area,

00:38:21 ◼   ► meaning that they have the same center.

00:38:24 ◼   ► And even the pads on the tables on which they laid out

00:38:29 ◼   ► the watches or the phones or whatever

00:38:31 ◼   ► you were trying to get your hands on

00:38:33 ◼   ► were concentric with the table.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Like custom tables, the wood grain is perfectly aligned

00:38:39 ◼   ► with the radius of the table.

00:38:42 ◼   ► The pads are custom made.

00:38:44 ◼   ► It truly was beautiful.

00:38:46 ◼   ► And I would say it was at best half the size it needed to be

00:38:51 ◼   ► to accommodate the number of people were there.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Maybe only one third of the size.

00:38:56 ◼   ► Like each table, every single thing, it doesn't matter.

00:39:01 ◼   ► Like what was the least exciting product they announced?

00:39:04 ◼   ► - Probably, maybe Apple TV.

00:39:05 ◼   ► They didn't even have Apple TV set up.

00:39:08 ◼   ► There was no Apple TV in the hands-on area.

00:39:10 ◼   ► So-- - Yeah, let's say

00:39:11 ◼   ► new watch bands, right?

00:39:12 ◼   ► I know some people love those,

00:39:14 ◼   ► and the fashion people certainly made a beeline.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Like I was near the watch band table at one point,

00:39:18 ◼   ► and they were like, you know, (imitates whooshing)

00:39:19 ◼   ► you could tell they were the fashion people,

00:39:20 ◼   ► 'cause they actually were dressed nice.

00:39:22 ◼   ► - Right. (laughs)

00:39:23 ◼   ► - I'm just being honest. - Right, right.

00:39:27 ◼   ► - They got a bunch of bloggers in there,

00:39:28 ◼   ► and you know, sweatpants, basically.

00:39:33 ◼   ► But yeah, they had them arranged around in a circle

00:39:36 ◼   ► and even the lower attention products,

00:39:41 ◼   ► not the X or not the new iPhones, but the bands,

00:39:45 ◼   ► you could not even get there.

00:39:46 ◼   ► It was four deep away from even being able to touch it

00:39:49 ◼   ► for an hour or more after the thing was over.

00:39:52 ◼   ► - I have vaguely, not vaguely,

00:39:54 ◼   ► but I have complained about the scrum

00:39:57 ◼   ► of hands-on areas for a while now.

00:39:59 ◼   ► And I realize that this is an incredibly privileged

00:40:02 ◼   ► And I still feel, I feel so happy.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And I really am that I get invited to these events

00:40:11 ◼   ► because 10, 15, 20, even 20 years ago,

00:40:15 ◼   ► I always used to think like someday I would love

00:40:17 ◼   ► to be somebody who writes about this stuff

00:40:19 ◼   ► and gets invited to be at these Apple keynotes.

00:40:21 ◼   ► I would like to be there and cover this.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And 10 years into being somebody

00:40:27 ◼   ► who gets these invitations and goes there,

00:40:29 ◼   ► I still appreciate it.

00:40:30 ◼   ► and I realized that there's thousands of people

00:40:34 ◼   ► listening to us talk right now,

00:40:35 ◼   ► who in the back of their minds think,

00:40:37 ◼   ► boy, that would be cool if I got to be there.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And it really was cool to be there.

00:40:40 ◼   ► So file this complaint under,

00:40:43 ◼   ► it's a privilege to be there,

00:40:44 ◼   ► and really the overall experience was great,

00:40:47 ◼   ► and the show was great, and everything was great.

00:40:49 ◼   ► But, you know, so I just keep that in mind

00:40:53 ◼   ► when I complain about the hands-on area.

00:40:55 ◼   ► But effectively, the effect of these hands-on areas

00:40:58 ◼   ► has been going downhill for a while,

00:41:00 ◼   ► because of the need for so many people

00:41:03 ◼   ► from so many publications to get video of the stuff,

00:41:06 ◼   ► which takes up so much physical space

00:41:08 ◼   ► because you've got a camera person and,

00:41:11 ◼   ► for lack of a better word, talent handling it

00:41:15 ◼   ► and trying to talk to them.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And there's so much more jostling.

00:41:19 ◼   ► And it's been like one or two deep around the tables

00:41:22 ◼   ► for events for a while now.

00:41:24 ◼   ► But to say, like you said,

00:41:25 ◼   ► that this was three or four deep, it really was.

00:41:28 ◼   ► This was like an entirely different level

00:41:30 ◼   ► where it was like four people deep around the table,

00:41:32 ◼   ► where at least at previous events,

00:41:34 ◼   ► it's like, okay, I'm not even gonna get literally,

00:41:36 ◼   ► they call it the hands-on area.

00:41:38 ◼   ► I'm not actually, I may not actually get to touch

00:41:40 ◼   ► these things with my hands,

00:41:41 ◼   ► but I'll at least get to see them.

00:41:44 ◼   ► You couldn't even get close enough to see this stuff.

00:41:46 ◼   ► It was really, and then the funny thing is then,

00:41:50 ◼   ► you'd run into Apple people afterwards,

00:41:52 ◼   ► and they'd be like, isn't the hands-on area beautiful?

00:41:54 ◼   ► Isn't the hands-on area beautiful?

00:41:56 ◼   ► How about that hands-on area?

00:41:57 ◼   ► And it's sort of like, well, it is beautiful,

00:42:01 ◼   ► but from our perspective, as people who actually

00:42:05 ◼   ► would like to get our hands on these things.

00:42:08 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:09 ◼   ► - Right.

00:42:10 ◼   ► The hands-on area is great at many things.

00:42:15 ◼   ► One of those things is not actually allowing you

00:42:17 ◼   ► to get your hands on.

00:42:18 ◼   ► - Right.

00:42:19 ◼   ► It's like having--

00:42:20 ◼   ► - That's the one thing that doesn't do well.

00:42:22 ◼   ► - It's like having an exquisitely beautiful,

00:42:24 ◼   ► truly beautiful, put it in architectural,

00:42:26 ◼   ► the cover of Architectural Digest magazine restaurant,

00:42:30 ◼   ► and you can't get a table.

00:42:32 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:42:34 ◼   ► It's like, well, it is beautiful, but I would actually--

00:42:36 ◼   ► - Well, you invite everybody there,

00:42:37 ◼   ► and you're just standing three deep

00:42:40 ◼   ► behind other people eating.

00:42:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you're invited to go even.

00:42:43 ◼   ► You even get an invite to go, but you don't get any food.

00:42:46 ◼   ► - And look, there's a combination of factors.

00:42:53 ◼   ► So a while back, I think it was a couple of years,

00:42:56 ◼   ► started consolidating all of the other events worldwide into one event. So this kind of

00:43:02 ◼   ► coincides with the larger venues like the Bill Graham and things like that. They basically,

00:43:08 ◼   ► you remember, I'm sure that they used to have satellite events. So they would have like

00:43:12 ◼   ► the UK press would come to the Apple Store Regent Street or some other location and watch

00:43:17 ◼   ► a live stream and then have their own hands on area and so on and so forth. You know,

00:43:22 ◼   ► had various permutations of that. It wasn't always exactly that way. But there were these

00:43:26 ◼   ► satellite events for foreign, when I say foreign, I mean press outside of the US. And they would

00:43:33 ◼   ► go there and it made it so that A, they couldn't fit everybody in the room in town hall, right?

00:43:39 ◼   ► And then also B, they didn't have to travel and they could just, you know, go locally

00:43:42 ◼   ► and it would capture more press that way. So they started consolidating for logistics

00:43:48 ◼   ► reasons, I think, and messaging and all of that. And because they started, I think, seeding

00:43:52 ◼   ► more units. Remember there was that big surge in increase in seeding demo units and things

00:43:57 ◼   ► like that.

00:43:58 ◼   ► Well, I mean, famously, let's just look at it. I mean, if we want to talk about the 10

00:44:02 ◼   ► year anniversary of the iPhone, the first iPhone was seeded to four people. Steven Levy,

00:44:09 ◼   ► at the time was at Newsweek. David Pogue, who was at the Times, Walt Mossberg, who was

00:44:15 ◼   ► then at the Wall Street Journal and Ed Begg at USA Today, who's the only one who's still

00:44:19 ◼   ► at the same publication. Those were the only four people in the...

00:44:22 ◼   ► I saw Ed at the event. Yeah, he was walking around.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Yeah. Those were the only four people who were seated with the original iPhone. And I happen

00:44:30 ◼   ► to know that each one of them had a personal engineer from the engineering team who was on

00:44:36 ◼   ► call 24 hours a day. I know somebody who was one of the...

00:44:41 ◼   ► With his soldering gun at the ready.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I know somebody who was one of those four people for one of those reviewers. And it was like the

00:44:48 ◼   ► the most nerve-wracking experience of his life

00:44:50 ◼   ► because it was more or less like,

00:44:52 ◼   ► if anything goes wrong with that fucking iPhone,

00:44:54 ◼   ► you better fucking fix it.

00:44:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:57 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, and there's no manual, so good luck.

00:45:02 ◼   ► No repair manual.

00:45:04 ◼   ► - And all four reviews actually went off without a hitch

00:45:06 ◼   ► and they were all gone.

00:45:07 ◼   ► But still, that's a huge difference from the number

00:45:10 ◼   ► of people who get seated with review units today.

00:45:12 ◼   ► - So there you got a combination,

00:45:14 ◼   ► like a perfect storm of all of that that ends up,

00:45:17 ◼   ► the end result of it is that you have a ton of people there

00:45:19 ◼   ► and a ton of people all mashing into the demo spaces.

00:45:22 ◼   ► It doesn't matter whether it's at Bill Graham

00:45:24 ◼   ► or Town Hall or wherever,

00:45:27 ◼   ► you're still going to probably overload your demo space.

00:45:31 ◼   ► That said, they did build this thing from scratch,

00:45:36 ◼   ► knowing exactly how many seats they have at the theater

00:45:40 ◼   ► and exactly what they are going to experience

00:45:45 ◼   ► in terms of volume, crowd volume.

00:45:47 ◼   ► - Right.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - You know, and look, I know that it's tough.

00:45:50 ◼   ► I mean, I know without a doubt, personal experience,

00:45:55 ◼   ► that like they get calls from all these people who are like,

00:45:58 ◼   ► "Oh, I need to get somebody extra in,"

00:45:59 ◼   ► or "Can you fit one more in," and all this stuff.

00:46:01 ◼   ► So I don't wanna like, I don't wanna make it seem

00:46:04 ◼   ► like they are, the PR people are not doing their job.

00:46:06 ◼   ► They're trying to do their job,

00:46:07 ◼   ► which is get the most people possible to see these things,

00:46:10 ◼   ► get the word out, et cetera.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And they do, they're usually unflappable, very courteous,

00:46:16 ◼   ► all of that.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Like very, you know, they handle a lot of,

00:46:19 ◼   ► what I would really blow up at, you know, a lot of behavior.

00:46:22 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah. - They handle it by the guests,

00:46:24 ◼   ► by press and other people and other guests.

00:46:27 ◼   ► But they handle a lot of that with aplomb, right?

00:46:29 ◼   ► - Without naming it. - So I wanna give them props.

00:46:31 ◼   ► - Without naming any names.

00:46:32 ◼   ► We've both heard some interesting stories about

00:46:35 ◼   ► the requests that certain publications put in or the--

00:46:39 ◼   ► - Right, right, exactly.

00:46:42 ◼   ► So look, I'm gonna give them all of that,

00:46:44 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:46:44 ◼   ► But it would have been, it seems like

00:46:47 ◼   ► there would have been an anticipated issue

00:46:48 ◼   ► as far as the design of this space goes.

00:46:52 ◼   ► That look, hey, these concentric rings,

00:46:54 ◼   ► 'cause this is essentially a big ring

00:46:55 ◼   ► that follows the ring of the steel walls,

00:46:57 ◼   ► which follows the ring of the stairwell,

00:46:59 ◼   ► and the ring of the, so it's gorgeous

00:47:01 ◼   ► and incredibly beautiful, empty, right?

00:47:05 ◼   ► When you see the space without the units in it,

00:47:08 ◼   ► because that's the only time I could see the space empty

00:47:10 ◼   ► 'cause everybody obviously is gone at that point.

00:47:12 ◼   ► It's gorgeous.

00:47:13 ◼   ► And it would probably, to somebody who had laid it out

00:47:16 ◼   ► and was looking at it the day before,

00:47:18 ◼   ► going, "I can't wait till everybody gets to come here

00:47:20 ◼   ► "and see this," it would have been,

00:47:22 ◼   ► they would have been ecstatic

00:47:23 ◼   ► 'cause of how gorgeous it is, all of that.

00:47:25 ◼   ► - I think it's-- - Logistically, it was tough.

00:47:27 ◼   ► - I think it's, you know, they're,

00:47:31 ◼   ► you and I both had briefings scheduled after the event

00:47:34 ◼   ► and the timing of which, and such that it was convenient,

00:47:38 ◼   ► It wasn't like I was asking you a huge favor to wait for me.

00:47:41 ◼   ► We both finished about the same time

00:47:42 ◼   ► so we could drive back to the city together.

00:47:45 ◼   ► But by the time we were done,

00:47:46 ◼   ► the hands-on area was taken down.

00:47:48 ◼   ► So we couldn't, when we came back from the briefing area,

00:47:51 ◼   ► which was behind this thing,

00:47:53 ◼   ► it wasn't like they were still out there

00:47:55 ◼   ► and we could then play with all the stuff, it was gone.

00:47:58 ◼   ► But we could see what it looked like, mostly empty.

00:48:01 ◼   ► We saw Jaws was there doing a TV spot with somebody

00:48:05 ◼   ► as we went up the stairs.

00:48:07 ◼   ► It looks beautiful.

00:48:08 ◼   ► it look, when it's empty, it is stunning.

00:48:11 ◼   ► But I think it sort of speaks to the weak spot

00:48:16 ◼   ► in Johnny Ives design aesthetic,

00:48:18 ◼   ► which is that there are times where,

00:48:21 ◼   ► I mean, and to go back to a Steve Jobs quote,

00:48:25 ◼   ► that design is how it works, right?

00:48:28 ◼   ► So if design is what it looks like,

00:48:30 ◼   ► it truly is a magnificent exhibit area.

00:48:33 ◼   ► But if design is how it works,

00:48:34 ◼   ► it is actually a failure of an exhibit area

00:48:37 ◼   ► because it was nowhere near, nowhere near enough capacity

00:48:41 ◼   ► because this concentric idea, this idea that the tables,

00:48:45 ◼   ► there'd be one sort of ring of tables laid out concentric

00:48:48 ◼   ► with the walls is just not enough.

00:48:50 ◼   ► It should have been laid out more like an Apple store

00:48:53 ◼   ► with rectangular benches with some space between them.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Like an Apple store like layout.

00:49:01 ◼   ► - And I can remember too that the very nature

00:49:03 ◼   ► of like a concentric ring means that you're gonna

00:49:05 ◼   ► squish people together who are on the inside.

00:49:07 ◼   ► So, you know, it's actually tighter

00:49:09 ◼   ► 'cause you're walking into a ring of tables

00:49:12 ◼   ► and then there's a melee in there.

00:49:13 ◼   ► 'Cause some people are just in the center trying to get,

00:49:15 ◼   ► like there were literally people doing hits

00:49:17 ◼   ► in the center of it.

00:49:18 ◼   ► So you have like ABC or whatever sit up

00:49:19 ◼   ► in the center of the ring doing hits

00:49:22 ◼   ► 'cause that way they have the backdrop

00:49:23 ◼   ► of like the products and people behind them

00:49:24 ◼   ► and the theater behind them.

00:49:26 ◼   ► And they were, you know, I mean that was,

00:49:28 ◼   ► that creates its own chaos.

00:49:30 ◼   ► And then in amongst that, yeah,

00:49:32 ◼   ► you got all of the bloggers with the sticks

00:49:34 ◼   ► and doing the selfie style stuff,

00:49:37 ◼   ► and then you have the people with actual video people

00:49:39 ◼   ► who are shooting over the shoulder

00:49:41 ◼   ► and getting the hands-ons and all of that stuff.

00:49:42 ◼   ► So it's a mess, and I don't know what the solution is,

00:49:45 ◼   ► but it definitely was impactful, I think,

00:49:48 ◼   ► to some people being able to get everything they needed.

00:49:51 ◼   ► - The solution is to scrap the ring idea.

00:49:53 ◼   ► I mean, the room is obviously already a circle,

00:49:56 ◼   ► but scrap the ring for the tables

00:49:58 ◼   ► and do an Apple Store-like rectangular layout,

00:50:00 ◼   ► and you'd get a lot more product on the floor.

00:50:05 ◼   ► We spent, you and I spent, and as I mingled,

00:50:08 ◼   ► we did, it wasn't like we were attached

00:50:09 ◼   ► at the hip the whole time, but most of the people I knew,

00:50:12 ◼   ► we spent our time outside that ring

00:50:14 ◼   ► because the inside of the ring, like you said,

00:50:15 ◼   ► was, it was almost like it had gravity.

00:50:19 ◼   ► It was like once you were inside,

00:50:20 ◼   ► you just kinda got sucked in.

00:50:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and at one point, Tim Cook and Johnny came out

00:50:29 ◼   ► to do some handshaking and photo ops and things like that.

00:50:34 ◼   ► 'Cause they always bring Tim out and Tim talks to some

00:50:36 ◼   ► of the people at the tables and he shoots some video

00:50:39 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:50:39 ◼   ► And of course, once that happens, the melee ensues.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Everybody wants to get a selfie with Tim and say hi.

00:50:44 ◼   ► And he's very gracious about all that stuff.

00:50:46 ◼   ► But just to get him into the ring,

00:50:49 ◼   ► they had to have like five or six people around him,

00:50:53 ◼   ► like whatever you wanna call them,

00:50:54 ◼   ► bodyguards or handlers or whatever.

00:50:56 ◼   ► Just to like get to see like, yeah.

00:50:59 ◼   ► "Well, you know, I hesitate to use the word because they weren't rude."

00:51:01 ◼   ► It's just like, "Hey, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, we're gonna get him in."

00:51:04 ◼   ► And everybody, you know, is like, "Oh, okay, let me move."

00:51:07 ◼   ► - "Whatever." - I remember looking at them.

00:51:08 ◼   ► But they're also trying to get their picture.

00:51:09 ◼   ► They're also trying to get their selfie, you know?

00:51:11 ◼   ► They're dressed very casually, like in polo shirts.

00:51:14 ◼   ► But I remember I was looking at them and I was like,

00:51:16 ◼   ► "You guys are-- I bet they're all former Navy SEALs."

00:51:19 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:51:20 ◼   ► No doubt in my mind.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Well, all of the guys driving the carts were former cops.

00:51:24 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Like all of the people driving you--

00:51:26 ◼   ► driving the press up and down the pathways and stuff.

00:51:28 ◼   ► No. So I was doing, I was doing a Periscope.

00:51:31 ◼   ► I was doing a Periscope video outside the ring showing a group of people going

00:51:35 ◼   ► up the elevator. Now the elevator is,

00:51:38 ◼   ► for those of you who haven't been following the architecture of this place is

00:51:42 ◼   ► sort of a notable in so far as when you come into it on the,

00:51:47 ◼   ► in the lobby,

00:51:49 ◼   ► it's facing one way and then it opens in the back and rather than put two doors

00:51:54 ◼   ► in the elevator car,

00:51:57 ◼   ► the elevator actually descends in a sort of helix-like thing

00:52:01 ◼   ► so that it rotates 180 degrees as you descend and ascend.

00:52:07 ◼   ► And the elevator shaft itself is, of course, made of glass.

00:52:10 ◼   ► So you can see this from either upstairs or downstairs.

00:52:14 ◼   ► You can watch it as it goes.

00:52:17 ◼   ► So I'm shooting a periscope video of the elevator.

00:52:20 ◼   ► And that's actually where the door was where--

00:52:23 ◼   ► like, as I'm shooting this elevator,

00:52:25 ◼   ► For those who were like, I don't know,

00:52:26 ◼   ► 600 people on my periscope, they got quite a nice surprise

00:52:29 ◼   ► where I'm telling them I'm shooting the elevator,

00:52:31 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden the door opens

00:52:33 ◼   ► and Tim Cook, Johnny Ive, and Laurene Powell Jobs

00:52:36 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:52:37 ◼   ► walk out of a door and right past me.

00:52:40 ◼   ► People on the periscope were like, holy fucking shit.

00:52:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:52:44 ◼   ► That was interesting.

00:52:47 ◼   ► It was very interesting watching the people

00:52:49 ◼   ► make space for them because it was not like it used to be.

00:52:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, and when it used to be, I remember,

00:52:56 ◼   ► very specifically, like the Yerba Buena Center,

00:53:00 ◼   ► they had that outdoor separate exhibit area.

00:53:03 ◼   ► In other cases, they may use for artwork,

00:53:06 ◼   ► or they turn it into a gallery or another presentation space

00:53:09 ◼   ► but they used it for this exhibit space,

00:53:11 ◼   ► for the Apple event.

00:53:11 ◼   ► And I remember Tim walking around and kind of standing there

00:53:15 ◼   ► and Jim Dalrymple would talk to him or say hi,

00:53:18 ◼   ► or somebody would come up or a handler would be

00:53:20 ◼   ► standing next to him telling him something,

00:53:22 ◼   ► and then he would shoot a little photo op thing.

00:53:25 ◼   ► But it was just such a crush this time.

00:53:27 ◼   ► It was just very, like impossible crush.

00:53:30 ◼   ► - I remember back in the Steve Jobs era,

00:53:33 ◼   ► where Jobs would wander around the hands-on area,

00:53:38 ◼   ► and it was just Jobs and Katie Cotton.

00:53:41 ◼   ► And Katie would, they never stopped and talked to me,

00:53:47 ◼   ► but I would watch them, and I could see what it was,

00:53:51 ◼   ► was Katie would, in a low voice,

00:53:56 ◼   ► tell him exactly who he was about to meet

00:53:57 ◼   ► 'cause Katie had like the,

00:53:59 ◼   ► Jobs couldn't be bothered to remember

00:54:00 ◼   ► who the fuck who was, but Katie did.

00:54:02 ◼   ► - Yeah. - And so she would say,

00:54:05 ◼   ► hey, this is so-and-so from the Wall Street Journal

00:54:07 ◼   ► or this is, and then he'd come up and go,

00:54:09 ◼   ► hey, how you doing, what'd you think?

00:54:11 ◼   ► And that was always, and Tim does the same thing,

00:54:14 ◼   ► but Steve Jobs is a question whenever he'd be,

00:54:17 ◼   ► and Katie would also help him make sure

00:54:19 ◼   ► that he met the right people,

00:54:20 ◼   ► that he wasn't wasting time on people like me.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Then he talked to David Bogue and talked to Ed.

00:54:27 ◼   ► He didn't need to be reminded

00:54:28 ◼   ► who Walt Mossberg is, for example.

00:54:30 ◼   ► But his question was always, "So what'd you think?"

00:54:33 ◼   ► And you could tell he wanted to know, "What did you think?"

00:54:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:54:38 ◼   ► And then it was getting filed away somewhere.

00:54:40 ◼   ► - It was literally though,

00:54:41 ◼   ► just Steve Jobs and Katie Cotton wandering around.

00:54:44 ◼   ► And obviously, I mean, people noticed

00:54:46 ◼   ► that Steve Jobs was walking around.

00:54:49 ◼   ► It was not like he wandered around unnoticed,

00:54:51 ◼   ► but it was not like,

00:54:53 ◼   ► nobody had to part the Red Sea for him physically.

00:54:56 ◼   ► - Yeah. - You know?

00:54:57 ◼   ► - I was at the last event that he was at,

00:55:00 ◼   ► and I do regret not just saying hi,

00:55:02 ◼   ► 'cause I was right next to him, but he seemed busy,

00:55:04 ◼   ► and I don't know, at the time,

00:55:05 ◼   ► I'm trying to juggle cameras and do my thing

00:55:08 ◼   ► and all of that stuff,

00:55:09 ◼   ► but I do regret not saying hi or whatever,

00:55:11 ◼   ► but I felt like I could've.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, yes. - Like I could've just been

00:55:13 ◼   ► like, "Hey, what's up?"

00:55:14 ◼   ► And with this, it was just like,

00:55:15 ◼   ► "Oh man, they've got some really tough work on their hands

00:55:20 ◼   ► "to get him in there, let him talk to a couple of people

00:55:23 ◼   ► "who are looking at the table naturally,

00:55:24 ◼   ► "like the people that are just organically next to him,

00:55:27 ◼   ► "shoot a little over the shoulder stuff for ABC

00:55:29 ◼   ► "or whatever interview that they're doing B-roll for."

00:55:32 ◼   ► And then they had to literally get him out after that.

00:55:35 ◼   ► They just said, "Okay, well let's get out."

00:55:37 ◼   ► Because it was creating even more of a congestion issue.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Johnny hung around and talked to stuff,

00:55:42 ◼   ► but I think people were asking him

00:55:45 ◼   ► what his watch was he was wearing and stuff like that.

00:55:47 ◼   ► He hung out a little bit more.

00:55:48 ◼   ► But with Tim, it was just impossible.

00:55:50 ◼   ► And it was a byproduct of the space.

00:55:52 ◼   ► - Did you notice what watch he was wearing?

00:55:54 ◼   ► I'll bet he was wearing a ceramic.

00:55:55 ◼   ► I think the ceramic is--

00:55:57 ◼   ► - I would guess so, but I didn't.

00:55:59 ◼   ► I wasn't close enough to see, yeah.

00:56:02 ◼   ► But yeah, I would guess so.

00:56:03 ◼   ► I was talking to another guest that was there,

00:56:06 ◼   ► a designer, and at the time, we were just chatting it up,

00:56:11 ◼   ► and then out of the blue, somebody's like,

00:56:13 ◼   ► tasked me on the shoulder, and was like,

00:56:14 ◼   ► "Hey, could you just step this side for just a minute?

00:56:16 ◼   ► Oh, just excuse us.

00:56:18 ◼   ► Johnny's gonna get a shot for Vogue."

00:56:19 ◼   ► And so I had to step away and he stood next to the designer

00:56:21 ◼   ► and got their quick Vogue shot.

00:56:23 ◼   ► So in the shot in Vogue, I'm just out of frame to the left.

00:56:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:28 ◼   ► Not asked to participate.

00:56:30 ◼   ► They get their shot and then we continue our discussion.

00:56:36 ◼   ► But I thought that was funny.

00:56:36 ◼   ► - You should have said then,

00:56:38 ◼   ► "Do you wanna get one with all three of us then?"

00:56:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh, you could.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Oh, all three?

00:56:42 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, sure.

00:56:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:56:46 ◼   ► What is he wearing?

00:56:47 ◼   ► What are they wearing?

00:56:48 ◼   ► What are the stars wearing?

00:56:50 ◼   ► - The story I heard was,

00:56:54 ◼   ► last thing, I think it's the last remark

00:56:56 ◼   ► I have to make about the theater,

00:56:57 ◼   ► but when you go from the hands-on area,

00:56:59 ◼   ► and like you said, there's sort of like

00:57:01 ◼   ► a little low ceiling, feels like a tunnel almost,

00:57:04 ◼   ► but like a little hallway between there

00:57:06 ◼   ► and the actual theater itself,

00:57:07 ◼   ► and it's all stone.

00:57:10 ◼   ► Everything on the walls is just stone,

00:57:11 ◼   ► but then there's an engraved Steve Jobs theater above it.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Type set in Helvetica,

00:57:20 ◼   ► which I found slightly odd that it's not San Francisco,

00:57:23 ◼   ► but it is obviously not a mistake

00:57:26 ◼   ► because the story I heard was that

00:57:28 ◼   ► it was the third version of it

00:57:31 ◼   ► and that the first one was Johnny came down

00:57:34 ◼   ► and looked at it and said, nope,

00:57:35 ◼   ► $50,000 in stone etching, rip it out, put another one in.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Second one came in, nope, another 50 grand, throw it out.

00:57:45 ◼   ► And then the third one was put up and he was like, that's it.

00:57:49 ◼   ► A kind of weird, a little slightly weird to me

00:57:53 ◼   ► that it's not San Francisco 'cause almost everything else,

00:57:56 ◼   ► everywhere is all San Francisco, the software, the hardware,

00:58:01 ◼   ► all the signage on campus, everything San Francisco,

00:58:03 ◼   ► but the word Steve Jobs Theater engraved into the thing

00:58:06 ◼   ► are set in Helvetica.

00:58:09 ◼   ► Oh, the other thing we should talk about is the parking garage.

00:58:13 ◼   ► I got to figure out how to put these.

00:58:17 ◼   ► I'll try to put these into show notes somehow,

00:58:19 ◼   ► but we parked on level P one of the visitor center parking garage and there's P

00:58:23 ◼   ► two the first day. Oh, P two the first day. Oh, P one was the second day though.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And that's the one where the mistake is where there's,

00:58:29 ◼   ► there's two elevators and they're not next to each other.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Yeah. So if anybody's listening to this,

00:58:34 ◼   ► we're going to tell you exactly where you could fix this issue.

00:58:39 ◼   ► on level P1 of the visitor center parking garage, there's two elevators. The elevators

00:58:43 ◼   ► are facing each other. They're not side by side. And there's only, you know, as you might

00:58:47 ◼   ► expect, there's two buttons, one to go up, one to go down. And the one that's correct,

00:58:55 ◼   ► the up and down buttons are about six inches above the one seam in the wall. And on the

00:59:00 ◼   ► other one...

00:59:01 ◼   ► Right. It's a two-tone wall, like two tones of concrete. There's a groove that separates

00:59:06 ◼   ► the lighter concrete from the darker concrete.

00:59:08 ◼   ► Very nice, you know, nice little concrete work there.

00:59:11 ◼   ► - And on the facing elevator, the up and down button panel

00:59:15 ◼   ► was obviously misplaced by the workmen,

00:59:17 ◼   ► and it actually crosses the seam between the concrete.

00:59:22 ◼   ► And as you pointed out, there's even like tape underneath,

00:59:27 ◼   ► right, was it tape, what was that?

00:59:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like blue masking tape,

00:59:31 ◼   ► and they instantly just yanked it off.

00:59:33 ◼   ► They had just finished.

00:59:34 ◼   ► - But they couldn't get the rest of the tape off

00:59:35 ◼   ► because the button panel was placed over the gap in the concrete.

00:59:40 ◼   ► It is so obviously wrong.

00:59:43 ◼   ► And we both couldn't stop laughing with the knowledge that it's proof that Johnny

00:59:48 ◼   ► Ive has never stepped foot on level P1 of the visitor center parking garage.

00:59:54 ◼   ► He has never seen this because if he saw this, he would have ripped it out.

00:59:57 ◼   ► I really hope he does not.

00:59:58 ◼   ► I don't think I really would be surprised if he listens to the show, but if he does,

01:00:01 ◼   ► he's going to like pause it and go over there.

01:00:03 ◼   ► He's going to be like, "What the fuck are these guys talking about?"

01:00:05 ◼   ► and he's gonna go down there and see it,

01:00:06 ◼   ► and he's gonna lose his shit.

01:00:09 ◼   ► - And you know, look, it's just, you know,

01:00:12 ◼   ► junk happens when you're building an enormous,

01:00:16 ◼   ► sprawling complex.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Things are gonna slip through the cracks.

01:00:20 ◼   ► It's just that they spend so much time building it

01:00:22 ◼   ► and you have a person whose reputation is like,

01:00:25 ◼   ► nothing but like, look, this seam, why?

01:00:28 ◼   ► This seam, you know?

01:00:30 ◼   ► And then you look and there's an elevator button

01:00:33 ◼   ► that's like eight inches too low.

01:00:34 ◼   ► And not only that, it wasn't that it was a blank wall

01:00:36 ◼   ► and you're like, are they lower?

01:00:38 ◼   ► I need to break out my ruler.

01:00:40 ◼   ► It was a, like there was a literal demarcation line

01:00:43 ◼   ► that allowed you to see immediately

01:00:45 ◼   ► that it was really, really wrong.

01:00:47 ◼   ► - And it's directly facing one where it's exactly right.

01:00:52 ◼   ► - Right, right.

01:00:53 ◼   ► It's like, you just look left and right

01:00:55 ◼   ► and it's like wrong, right.

01:00:56 ◼   ► I think you did like the invitation of what Johnny would do

01:00:59 ◼   ► if you stayed in there like,

01:01:00 ◼   ► "Like left, what the hell is going on here?"

01:01:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:04 ◼   ► Am I taking crazy pills?

01:01:05 ◼   ► But like, I grew up finding stuff like that,

01:01:09 ◼   ► 'cause my dad was that way,

01:01:10 ◼   ► he was a fit and finished guy for a lot of years.

01:01:12 ◼   ► He did interior decorating and paint and plaster

01:01:16 ◼   ► and all of that stuff.

01:01:17 ◼   ► And so for him, he'll walk into a room

01:01:20 ◼   ► and instantly go like,

01:01:21 ◼   ► "Oh, that wasn't cut in properly there."

01:01:23 ◼   ► And you're like, "Dang it, I thought I was finished

01:01:25 ◼   ► "in this room," you know?

01:01:26 ◼   ► And I inherited that thing.

01:01:28 ◼   ► And so I was like, we got off that elevator,

01:01:30 ◼   ► I'm like, I feel a disturbance in the detail force.

01:01:35 ◼   ► What's going on here?

01:01:37 ◼   ► But yeah, that was good times.

01:01:40 ◼   ► It was good stuff. - Really good times.

01:01:41 ◼   ► All right, let me take another break here

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01:02:22 ◼   ► They're actual Mac software engineers

01:02:24 ◼   ► used to work at Apple, so they totally know

01:02:26 ◼   ► what it means to write truly native Mac software.

01:02:28 ◼   ► And back plays never, and I've been using it for years,

01:02:33 ◼   ► never, ever, like I keep activity monitor running

01:02:38 ◼   ► on my Mac all the time 'cause I'm a nerd.

01:02:39 ◼   ► And if I see those levels go up and I'm like,

01:02:41 ◼   ► go over there and see what it is,

01:02:43 ◼   ► what's making my CPU go too hard, it is never back plays.

01:02:48 ◼   ► Like it's not the sort of thing where you need to sit there

01:02:50 ◼   ► and like, oh, I'm gonna do something,

01:02:51 ◼   ► I'm gonna work right now, I better go turn it off

01:02:54 ◼   ► so that it doesn't do a backup.

01:02:55 ◼   ► It's like, I have no idea when Backblaze does these backups

01:02:58 ◼   ► because it's silent and efficient and it just works.

01:03:02 ◼   ► It's just truly invisible.

01:03:05 ◼   ► And what it does is it backs up all of your stuff

01:03:08 ◼   ► to their cloud backup service.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Should it be your only backup?

01:03:12 ◼   ► No way.

01:03:13 ◼   ► And they'll be the first ones to tell you that.

01:03:16 ◼   ► You should have local backups.

01:03:18 ◼   ► You should use Time Machine.

01:03:19 ◼   ► I use a product called SuperDuper,

01:03:22 ◼   ► which creates a clone, a perfect cloneable image

01:03:25 ◼   ► of my startup disk.

01:03:26 ◼   ► So if anything ever goes wrong with my startup disk,

01:03:28 ◼   ► I am never more than like one day's data away

01:03:31 ◼   ► from just plugging in the external drive

01:03:33 ◼   ► and I can boot from it and there it is.

01:03:36 ◼   ► But you should have backups offsite

01:03:39 ◼   ► just in case something terrible happens.

01:03:41 ◼   ► So maybe you get robbed, maybe there's like a fire,

01:03:45 ◼   ► maybe the pipe leaks in the ceiling above your office

01:03:50 ◼   ► and soaks all of your computer equipment

01:03:52 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:03:53 ◼   ► There's all sorts of things that could go bad

01:03:55 ◼   ► where you're gonna be like,

01:03:56 ◼   ► boy, I really wish I had an offsite backup.

01:03:58 ◼   ► Well, Backblaze is the offsite backup that you should use.

01:04:02 ◼   ► I use it, I would tell you to use it

01:04:04 ◼   ► even if they didn't sponsor the show.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Just truly great.

01:04:07 ◼   ► And here's the deal, you pay five bucks a month per Mac

01:04:11 ◼   ► and it'll back up everything on your Mac

01:04:14 ◼   ► and any external drives connected to your Mac.

01:04:16 ◼   ► And that's the only limit.

01:04:18 ◼   ► And you're like, well, wait, not me.

01:04:20 ◼   ► I've got like this giant movie collection

01:04:23 ◼   ► on an external drive next to my Mac.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Nope, no limits.

01:04:25 ◼   ► If it's connected to your Mac, it all gets backed up.

01:04:28 ◼   ► That's it, five bucks a month.

01:04:29 ◼   ► There's no catch, that's it.

01:04:33 ◼   ► So go to backblaze.com/daringfireball.

01:04:38 ◼   ► They'll know you came from here.

01:04:40 ◼   ► Download the free demo and you got 15 days to try it out

01:04:42 ◼   ► and see if everything I just told you is true.

01:04:44 ◼   ► So my thanks to Backblaze for their continuing support

01:04:47 ◼   ► of Daring Fireball and the talk show.

01:04:48 ◼   ► Great, great service.

01:04:50 ◼   ► If you're not signed up yet,

01:04:52 ◼   ► there's something wrong with you.

01:04:53 ◼   ► Which order, what order do you want to talk about the products?

01:04:58 ◼   ► Do you want to talk to the order Apple did them or do you want to go reverse because iPhone 10 is the hot shit?

01:05:05 ◼   ► I don't know. Let's go reverse.

01:05:09 ◼   ► Let's do what? Reverse?

01:05:11 ◼   ► Let's go reverse.

01:05:12 ◼   ► Okay. iPhone 10.

01:05:14 ◼   ► Because I figure if we run out of time.

01:05:16 ◼   ► Yeah. Let's give short shrift to retail.

01:05:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:23 ◼   ► - It's one of those Apple events where they go,

01:05:28 ◼   ► a lot of great stuff happened,

01:05:29 ◼   ► but we have too many things to talk about,

01:05:30 ◼   ► so everything's going great, okay.

01:05:32 ◼   ► - Does it make sense, I don't know that it makes sense

01:05:35 ◼   ► to talk about iPhone X separately from iPhone 8, because--

01:05:38 ◼   ► - No, I think we should talk about it both.

01:05:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:41 ◼   ► - There's a lot of shared hardware and shared features

01:05:43 ◼   ► and shared philosophies, I think.

01:05:45 ◼   ► - For showmanship purposes, they introduced them separately

01:05:49 ◼   ► and did the one more thing,

01:05:51 ◼   ► and they're obviously priced separately.

01:05:54 ◼   ► But at a basic level, it's almost impressive

01:05:59 ◼   ► how much of the internal new stuff that's in iPhone 10

01:06:05 ◼   ► is also in iPhone 8.

01:06:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, almost everything.

01:06:12 ◼   ► - A11 Bionic chip is, as far as we know,

01:06:16 ◼   ► at this point, they're the same speed.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And maybe there's, I don't know,

01:06:20 ◼   ► maybe there's a megahertz difference, I don't know,

01:06:22 ◼   ► or gigahertz, I guess, at this point.

01:06:23 ◼   ► But I would almost be surprised if there were.

01:06:26 ◼   ► But the fact, like the most impressive fact

01:06:29 ◼   ► of the A11 Bionic chip is that the new performance controller

01:06:34 ◼   ► that Apple has engineered now allows all six cores

01:06:39 ◼   ► to run at the same time, as opposed to previously,

01:06:42 ◼   ► and which a lot of, you know, it's not unique to Apple.

01:06:45 ◼   ► There's other Android, like the Snapdragons,

01:06:47 ◼   ► to do this thing where there's high power,

01:06:50 ◼   ► high performance cores and low power,

01:06:53 ◼   ► lower performance cores and it switched between them.

01:06:56 ◼   ► So when your iPhone didn't really need it,

01:06:58 ◼   ► your iPhone 7 doesn't need a lot of CPU performance,

01:07:03 ◼   ► it'll use two low power cores.

01:07:06 ◼   ► And when it does need more performance,

01:07:08 ◼   ► it switches to two high performance cores.

01:07:11 ◼   ► On the A11 Bionic,

01:07:14 ◼   ► and I can't emphasize what a breakthrough this is,

01:07:17 ◼   ► it's always using the low performance cores

01:07:20 ◼   ► and when it needs more performance,

01:07:22 ◼   ► it adds the high performance cores.

01:07:25 ◼   ► And so the multi-core performance difference

01:07:28 ◼   ► between these two is, it's absolutely jaw-dropping

01:07:32 ◼   ► and nothing like what you would expect

01:07:34 ◼   ► in a 12 month year over year upgrade.

01:07:36 ◼   ► And the iPhone 8s get them too.

01:07:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, they all get 'em.

01:07:41 ◼   ► And the performance controller too,

01:07:44 ◼   ► it's more sophisticated even than just switching or adding,

01:07:47 ◼   ► 'cause it can traffic control between all of them,

01:07:50 ◼   ► as far as I understand it from the presentation,

01:07:52 ◼   ► is that you can get any combination thereof,

01:07:56 ◼   ► whereas the previous Fusion chip,

01:07:59 ◼   ► it switched them off and on in pairs.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Like it was sort of much less sophisticated.

01:08:05 ◼   ► So basically, just a more sophisticated version

01:08:07 ◼   ► of what they were doing before,

01:08:08 ◼   ► but enormously forward in terms of efficiency.

01:08:11 ◼   ► And one of the big questions, I think,

01:08:14 ◼   ► or big kickbacks right away, everybody was like,

01:08:16 ◼   ► oh well, it's getting some performance gains

01:08:20 ◼   ► because it got to drop 32-bit, right?

01:08:24 ◼   ► Like it doesn't have to do 32-bit,

01:08:25 ◼   ► it can do only 64-bit now.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And I think that's true, but I don't think that that's,

01:08:30 ◼   ► I don't think that should account in people's minds

01:08:32 ◼   ► for much of the performance gain.

01:08:33 ◼   ► It really is an enormous jump forward

01:08:35 ◼   ► and processing power and efficiency.

01:08:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, there may be, that's an interesting question

01:08:40 ◼   ► as to whether part of this performance controller

01:08:44 ◼   ► is the fact that it only has to do 64-bit.

01:08:47 ◼   ► My understanding though is that the dropping of 32-bit

01:08:50 ◼   ► and the performance gains from that is really more that,

01:08:54 ◼   ► it's not really, I could be wrong.

01:08:58 ◼   ► There might be a performance controller,

01:09:00 ◼   ► CPU level, silicon advantage to that,

01:09:02 ◼   ► but mainly it's sort of a RAM issue

01:09:06 ◼   ► where supporting both means you have to have both versions

01:09:10 ◼   ► of all the OS frameworks.

01:09:12 ◼   ► And when a 32-bit app launches on iOS 10,

01:09:15 ◼   ► you have to load all of AppKit

01:09:17 ◼   ► and whatever other blank kit frameworks,

01:09:21 ◼   ► insert camera kit, whatever.

01:09:24 ◼   ► In broad strokes, and I'm sure people

01:09:30 ◼   ► who truly understand what's going on,

01:09:31 ◼   ► they might roll their eyes,

01:09:32 ◼   ► but in broad strokes, it's almost like you've got

01:09:34 ◼   ► two versions of iOS running.

01:09:35 ◼   ► You've got the 32-bit version and the 64-bit version.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And the context switching of that is,

01:09:41 ◼   ► it's just fairly significant, whereas going 64-bit only,

01:09:45 ◼   ► it just drops a whole level of that

01:09:48 ◼   ► that you just don't even have to worry about.

01:09:50 ◼   ► But you might be right, there might be something,

01:09:51 ◼   ► maybe it was just that it was easier

01:09:53 ◼   ► to develop the performance controller

01:09:55 ◼   ► if you only knew you had one set of frameworks

01:09:57 ◼   ► and you never had to worry about

01:09:59 ◼   ► that sort of context switching.

01:10:00 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think that there's, there are going to be people who will try to dampen,

01:10:09 ◼   ► which it's only right to do, dampen the amount of like over the top enthusiasm about this

01:10:15 ◼   ► process or by saying, well, you know, look, here are the caveats, here are the things

01:10:20 ◼   ► that may, you know, they may be doing to get these performance numbers or whatever, because

01:10:25 ◼   ► we've seen some of the geek bench, public geek benches already, you know, coming from

01:10:28 ◼   ► test devices out there that are showing like Macbook Pro-like performance.

01:10:35 ◼   ► My hat's off to the people in the hands-on area who managed to get to the App Store and

01:10:38 ◼   ► down.

01:10:39 ◼   ► I know.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Because when you're using it, there is somebody from Apple supervising you.

01:10:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:47 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure how that happened.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Because what they...

01:10:50 ◼   ► Whoever was able to do that.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:52 ◼   ► How did they sign into the App Store?

01:10:53 ◼   ► I'm not even sure if that's how these numbers linked.

01:10:54 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:55 ◼   ► I don't know if it was...

01:10:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:57 ◼   ► - Right, right. - Right on the Twitters.

01:11:00 ◼   ► And it was showing a MacBook Pro performance

01:11:03 ◼   ► coming out of that thing.

01:11:04 ◼   ► And then of course there are people who are like,

01:11:05 ◼   ► "Ah, well, you gotta take into account the 32-bit switch,

01:11:09 ◼   ► "you gotta take into account this and that

01:11:11 ◼   ► "and the other thing."

01:11:12 ◼   ► And I get all that, but I have two things to say about that.

01:11:15 ◼   ► One, Apple did it, right?

01:11:19 ◼   ► Like their Silicon team did it.

01:11:21 ◼   ► All of those things that you're saying,

01:11:23 ◼   ► oh, they just dropped 32-bit.

01:11:26 ◼   ► "Oh, okay." But they had to drop 32-bit. They were literally the first phone ever to use

01:11:30 ◼   ► a true 64-bit processor, and they spent three years building that, you know? And now it's

01:11:35 ◼   ► paying off, right? Like, they transitioned their file system, the 64-bit file system,

01:11:39 ◼   ► without a hitch to, like, a billion devices, you know? Like, zero problems. Like, nobody.

01:11:48 ◼   ► I never saw a single person say, "Oh, I upgraded to iOS, Tindo, whatever, and my file system

01:11:54 ◼   ► screwed up. No, not a single one. I mean, that's ridiculous, right? So they had to put in the work.

01:11:59 ◼   ► Right. And then the second aspect of it is what I feel is important to point out, even though it

01:12:05 ◼   ► won't affect people in the near term, the A11 is putting up these numbers and performing this way

01:12:12 ◼   ► on a battery powered device. Like, can you imagine how powerful that thing actually is?

01:12:20 ◼   ► if it can put up a MacBook Pro-like number on a battery.

01:12:25 ◼   ► Imagine the performance your MacBook Pro, your battery life performance your MacBook Pro would

01:12:30 ◼   ► get if it had the iPhone 8 battery. Right. Like imagine an iPhone with a MacBook size battery.

01:12:37 ◼   ► Right. Exactly.

01:12:38 ◼   ► That's how good your MacBook's battery life would be. So look, everybody's always like just chamfered

01:12:46 ◼   ► it at the bit to know when Apple is going to switch over and put ARM CPUs into Macbooks

01:12:51 ◼   ► and all this stuff.

01:12:52 ◼   ► And, you know, a lot of people see the Touch ID and the Touch bar as testing the waters

01:12:58 ◼   ► because that obviously has an ARM CPU in it or ARM part in it.

01:13:03 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:13:04 ◼   ► I'm not a prognosticator in that regard.

01:13:06 ◼   ► And there are tons of people that are much more smarter, much more smarter, obviously,

01:13:10 ◼   ► much smarter than I am.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Much smarter than I am about processor lifespan and like when that's the right thing for them to do.

01:13:18 ◼   ► And I don't know system architecture on a low level to know are they ready to do that and all that, right?

01:13:23 ◼   ► But just coming from a purely strategic standpoint in terms of what they're building there, they could probably switch now, right?

01:13:32 ◼   ► They could probably switch very, very closely to now.

01:13:35 ◼   ► And that's crazy, crazy impressive over the past three years what they've done.

01:13:41 ◼   ► And I'd like to point out that all these really massive,

01:13:45 ◼   ► fun, and incredibly technical, obviously, improvements

01:13:49 ◼   ► have been made on quote, unquote, S years.

01:13:52 ◼   ► You know, the years that most people were like,

01:13:54 ◼   ► oh, you know, who cares, right?

01:13:56 ◼   ► It's like, well, you should care

01:13:58 ◼   ► 'cause they're literally building the future

01:14:00 ◼   ► of your processing power on your laptop

01:14:02 ◼   ► in front of your face, you know?

01:14:04 ◼   ► - I saw somebody, somebody I know at Apple

01:14:08 ◼   ► works on iPad and they were at the event and you know a typical Apple person

01:14:13 ◼   ► they're not gonna tell me anything but all I said I said to him was holy shit

01:14:19 ◼   ► the a11 and he just smiled so you bring this up I wrote about this at during

01:14:28 ◼   ► fireball I wrote about this that I retweeted that screenshot floating

01:14:33 ◼   ► around with them because somebody's I somebody said I got like a I don't know

01:14:36 ◼   ► a thousand goddamn likes on it.

01:14:38 ◼   ► But somebody said, "Holy shit,

01:14:39 ◼   ► "this is like MacBook performance."

01:14:40 ◼   ► And I retweeted it with a comment,

01:14:42 ◼   ► "Macbook Pro performance."

01:14:44 ◼   ► "Macbook Pro, not MacBook."

01:14:45 ◼   ► Like, this blows the standard MacBook away.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Like, the nicest regular MacBook that you can get,

01:14:52 ◼   ► the CPU performance on your iPad 8,

01:14:54 ◼   ► not even if you just get the 8,

01:14:56 ◼   ► that $699 iPhone 8 beats the MacBook.

01:15:01 ◼   ► It's MacBook Pro performance.

01:15:02 ◼   ► And of course, out of the woodwork

01:15:04 ◼   ► come the Android fans and they're like,

01:15:07 ◼   ► I thought benchmarks don't matter.

01:15:10 ◼   ► You know, I thought benchmarks don't matter.

01:15:13 ◼   ► And nobody ever said this is why.

01:15:15 ◼   ► Nobody is saying you should buy an iPhone

01:15:17 ◼   ► because it performs, has great Geekbench benchmarks.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Nobody is saying that.

01:15:23 ◼   ► But this is unprecedented

01:15:25 ◼   ► in the history of personal computing.

01:15:26 ◼   ► Like because in the old days, there were times,

01:15:31 ◼   ► like it sort of was like a tide coming in and out

01:15:34 ◼   ► where every once in a while Apple would make

01:15:36 ◼   ► this breakthrough back before they switched to Intel.

01:15:39 ◼   ► Like when they first switched to PowerPC,

01:15:42 ◼   ► the Macs were, Power Macs, when they first had came out,

01:15:45 ◼   ► they were arguably, and I think it's fair to say,

01:15:48 ◼   ► they jumped ahead of the PC.

01:15:51 ◼   ► And then very quickly Intel passed them again,

01:15:58 ◼   ► and the PowerPC architecture sort of languished.

01:16:02 ◼   ► And then there were times like the Power Mac G4,

01:16:07 ◼   ► was it, yeah, the G4 sort of put them back in the game

01:16:16 ◼   ► and then it quickly languished

01:16:18 ◼   ► and then it just never went anywhere.

01:16:20 ◼   ► And so there were times when as an Apple user,

01:16:22 ◼   ► as a Mac user, you were sort of,

01:16:24 ◼   ► you really were effectively making a conscious choice

01:16:26 ◼   ► to use a platform that in terms of pure computing performance

01:16:29 ◼   ► was behind the rest of the industry.

01:16:31 ◼   ► And I did so, I stuck with the Mac through all those years

01:16:36 ◼   ► because I liked the software, I liked the design.

01:16:39 ◼   ► But I was aware, I wasn't like in denial

01:16:43 ◼   ► that dollar for dollar or just in terms of like,

01:16:46 ◼   ► what's the fastest performing computer I can buy?

01:16:49 ◼   ► Is it as fast as the fastest performing PC?

01:16:51 ◼   ► No, I knew it wasn't, but I was fine with that

01:16:53 ◼   ► because I liked the platform.

01:16:55 ◼   ► It's never been the case though that the people,

01:16:58 ◼   ► And in some broad sense, Android is the new Windows

01:17:01 ◼   ► because it's the platform that is licensed

01:17:04 ◼   ► and everybody uses it.

01:17:05 ◼   ► It was never the case that Windows users had to accept

01:17:09 ◼   ► that Macs had blow away performance that blew them away.

01:17:13 ◼   ► But that is the case now

01:17:16 ◼   ► and they're losing their minds over this.

01:17:19 ◼   ► There's a certain contingent of Android user

01:17:24 ◼   ► who prefers the platform, which is totally reasonable.

01:17:27 ◼   ► I get it. I don't like it as much, but I could see why some people might, but who also want like the best performing hardware in the world and they can't have that.

01:17:37 ◼   ► And it's like causing cognitive dissonance in their minds.

01:17:47 ◼   ► That like one-usmanship is sort of where the specs discussion falls apart for me, right?

01:17:56 ◼   ► I mean, and like you mentioned earlier, people are going like, "Oh, I thought the specs don't matter," or whatever.

01:18:00 ◼   ► But the effects of the specs do, right?

01:18:03 ◼   ► The effects of what is being done there matter.

01:18:08 ◼   ► And that's what it's capable of.

01:18:10 ◼   ► So you honestly, I don't even,

01:18:14 ◼   ► I really wish people who are in Android

01:18:17 ◼   ► that feel some sort of FOMO or whatever

01:18:19 ◼   ► about even the processing power,

01:18:22 ◼   ► let's just say that, right?

01:18:23 ◼   ► They're like, oh man, I want a phone that uses Android

01:18:26 ◼   ► that has the most powerful processor in the world.

01:18:28 ◼   ► And my question to them is why?

01:18:31 ◼   ► Like why do you want that most powerful processor

01:18:34 ◼   ► or whatever?

01:18:34 ◼   ► Is it just because you know holding your hand you have that?

01:18:37 ◼   ► And the answer for some people would be yes.

01:18:39 ◼   ► Like they just want it.

01:18:40 ◼   ► They want to know, like honestly it's the same reason

01:18:43 ◼   ► I upgrade my GPU like habitually.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Like I want to know if I pull up Destiny 2 on a PC

01:18:49 ◼   ► in October, it's gonna run like 4K with all of the

01:18:52 ◼   ► water droplets and body fluids and everything looking crisp.

01:18:57 ◼   ► And that's fine.

01:18:58 ◼   ► That's just, I do it consciously knowing that I'm

01:19:01 ◼   ► probably spending money before I need to

01:19:04 ◼   ► to upgrade my GPU.

01:19:05 ◼   ► And some people do the same thing with an Android phone.

01:19:07 ◼   ► They're like, "Colin, I got the new hotness

01:19:09 ◼   ► because it's the fastest in the world or whatever. And so now they are faced, as you said, with this dissonance problem where they're like, "Oh, I cannot get something that goes blow for blow in Android, you know, goes blow for blow with an A11." But my question to them is like, why do you want that processor? And I think that that's the strength of iOS, because it gives people that unified platform to build for and the ceiling of maximum power that they know

01:19:39 ◼   ► they can target. Like they know the rules of their world. And so when they go in there, they know they

01:19:46 ◼   ► can cast a fireball or they know they can, you know, summon a dragon or whatever. They know

01:19:53 ◼   ► exactly what they can do within the frameworks of that world that Apple has built for them. Whereas

01:19:58 ◼   ► on Android, as a developer who wants to push the limits, your targets get narrower and narrower and

01:20:04 ◼   ► narrower, the more you want to push the platform. And so that's why I always ask people like, why?

01:20:09 ◼   ► Why do you want a more powerful processor on Android? Because guess what, all you're going to

01:20:14 ◼   ► get is a handful of demo apps that can even take advantage of it. And those apps will probably not

01:20:19 ◼   ► scale. Obviously, there are a few apps from major developers like games that may push it, right, and

01:20:26 ◼   ► are built to push it. But by and large, if you're going into an A11 powered iPhone, like

01:20:35 ◼   ► an iPhone 8 or an iPhone 10, you know that the apps getting built for that thing by the

01:20:40 ◼   ► people that know how to do it are going to be pushing the boundaries of what that's capable

01:20:45 ◼   ► of. Like you're going to within months, you're going to be seeing what really truly what

01:20:49 ◼   ► that thing is capable of. And that doesn't happen on Android because it's not a symbiotic

01:20:56 ◼   ► relationship between the developer ecosystem and the actual hardware that you're using?

01:21:01 ◼   ► It really is as though like in the mobile era, it's as though imagine if like Microsoft and Intel

01:21:09 ◼   ► had been one company and kept the chips to themselves. And, you know, it's undeniable that

01:21:18 ◼   ► Apple's chip team is better than Qualcomm's

01:21:23 ◼   ► and better than Samsung.

01:21:25 ◼   ► Samsung has their own chips, I forget what they call them,

01:21:28 ◼   ► like in the weird way that there's literally

01:21:31 ◼   ► like two different Galaxy S8s, one with a Snapdragon

01:21:34 ◼   ► and one with the custom Samsung chip.

01:21:38 ◼   ► But the performance on the Samsung chip

01:21:40 ◼   ► isn't really all that different than the Snapdragon.

01:21:42 ◼   ► Like Apple is literally like two years,

01:21:44 ◼   ► maybe even more ahead of the industry.

01:21:48 ◼   ► And there's just no precedent for that

01:21:50 ◼   ► in the PC side of things.

01:21:52 ◼   ► And again, you get this if you get the base model iPhone 8.

01:21:58 ◼   ► And again, this is not the main reason why.

01:22:01 ◼   ► You had a very good line in the car when we were driving

01:22:04 ◼   ► where it's not the specs that matter,

01:22:06 ◼   ► it's the effects that matter,

01:22:07 ◼   ► meaning how does the user benefit from this?

01:22:14 ◼   ► But they are real effects, you know,

01:22:16 ◼   ► and one of them is battery life,

01:22:17 ◼   ► where this faster performance means

01:22:19 ◼   ► if you want to do this thing on your phone

01:22:22 ◼   ► and the processor can do it without even breaking a sweat,

01:22:26 ◼   ► it takes less of the battery life away

01:22:28 ◼   ► and you get longer battery life.

01:22:29 ◼   ► - That's right, that's right, yeah.

01:22:31 ◼   ► It's like you got Joe DiMaggio out there

01:22:35 ◼   ► playing in your neighborhood ballpark.

01:22:38 ◼   ► - Right.

01:22:38 ◼   ► - Like is it gonna be an effort for him

01:22:39 ◼   ► to crush it out of the park?

01:22:41 ◼   ► No, you know, he's gonna be fine.

01:22:43 ◼   ► And so that it does allow-- overhead is important, right?

01:22:48 ◼   ► So just to give you an example, ARKit, one of the reasons

01:22:53 ◼   ► that many developers are excited about it after they learn

01:22:56 ◼   ► this fact, they're excited about it,

01:22:58 ◼   ► is that it uses almost none of the GPU.

01:23:02 ◼   ► I mean, almost none.

01:23:04 ◼   ► I think it activates it and uses some bare minimum amount of it.

01:23:07 ◼   ► But nearly all of the GPU is completely

01:23:10 ◼   ► untouched by just firing up the ARKit framework.

01:23:14 ◼   ► So all of the work that ARKit does for the developer in getting a point cloud and plane

01:23:20 ◼   ► detection and tracking and updating that tracking and et cetera, et cetera, it's all CPU-based.

01:23:27 ◼   ► And the GPU is left completely alone because Apple knows that many of these developers

01:23:31 ◼   ► will be building in Unity or in Unreal and they're going to need all of that GPU to

01:23:37 ◼   ► perform those calculations to render those scenes.

01:23:40 ◼   ► So ARKit, all that stuff is on the processor to do.

01:23:44 ◼   ► And in order to do that efficiently and consistently,

01:23:47 ◼   ► they need precise understanding of the capabilities

01:23:51 ◼   ► of the processor, incredibly good handling

01:23:54 ◼   ► over the power utilization of that processor,

01:23:57 ◼   ► and then of course, you know,

01:23:58 ◼   ► a handling over the rest of the hardware,

01:23:59 ◼   ► like the sensors and things.

01:24:01 ◼   ► And that kind of like, you know, blended efficiency

01:24:06 ◼   ► only comes when you build the silicon

01:24:07 ◼   ► and then you build the framework.

01:24:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:24:09 ◼   ► I think that another good example of that,

01:24:13 ◼   ► and again, Apple does like to put features

01:24:16 ◼   ► in the new hardware that's exclusive to them.

01:24:19 ◼   ► I'm lacking a better word here.

01:24:21 ◼   ► This sounds mean-spirited, but out of marketing spite,

01:24:25 ◼   ► let's say, that hey, you can only do this

01:24:27 ◼   ► if you buy the new iPhone.

01:24:29 ◼   ► But I think that the new portrait mode lighting effects,

01:24:33 ◼   ► It's not just spite of, hey, sorry iPhone 7 Plus users,

01:24:38 ◼   ► you don't get this, it's only for iPhone 8 and iPhone 10.

01:24:41 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:24:43 ◼   ► I think it actually has to do

01:24:44 ◼   ► with the increased performance overhead,

01:24:46 ◼   ► because it's all rendered in real time when you do it.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Meaning portrait mode on the iPhone 8 Plus

01:24:52 ◼   ► and on the iPhone 10 has these lighting effects

01:24:55 ◼   ► that you can do.

01:24:55 ◼   ► And as Phil Schiller explained on stage,

01:24:57 ◼   ► they're not filters.

01:24:59 ◼   ► They truly are computationally simulating

01:25:02 ◼   ► advanced lighting effects of like,

01:25:06 ◼   ► it detects eyes and simulates placing a light

01:25:11 ◼   ► the way that a professional portrait photographer

01:25:14 ◼   ► would place a light just to highlight your eyes.

01:25:17 ◼   ► And it's not just after you snap the photo

01:25:21 ◼   ► and then it goes and a little spinner shows up

01:25:23 ◼   ► and it like does it, it's all rendered in real time.

01:25:26 ◼   ► I think that's another example of it

01:25:30 ◼   ► where the hardware has a, the performance of these chips

01:25:34 ◼   ► truly has an effect on the experience of using the device

01:25:39 ◼   ► in a way that people can appreciate.

01:25:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, even if it's not, yeah, even if it's not,

01:25:42 ◼   ► I think some people would go, like,

01:25:44 ◼   ► hey, Apple doesn't chip stuff on purpose,

01:25:47 ◼   ► and I know people will pull examples out

01:25:49 ◼   ► and wave them around if you ask,

01:25:51 ◼   ► but in terms of something like the portrait mode,

01:25:55 ◼   ► I think that even if they could be supported,

01:25:57 ◼   ► my gut tells me they could probably get it to run

01:26:00 ◼   ► on like an iPhone 7 Plus, right?

01:26:03 ◼   ► But even if they could support it there,

01:26:04 ◼   ► the experience might not be, you know,

01:26:08 ◼   ► as flawless as they showed it on stage,

01:26:10 ◼   ► where it's just like, bing, bang, boom.

01:26:11 ◼   ► And maybe the live preview wouldn't work,

01:26:13 ◼   ► but afterwards it would work.

01:26:15 ◼   ► Or maybe the processing time is just longer,

01:26:18 ◼   ► so that when you snap it, you get the spinny, right?

01:26:21 ◼   ► Where, you know, as you saw on stage,

01:26:24 ◼   ► it's like, bang, you know, you shoot the picture,

01:26:26 ◼   ► and that's it, right?

01:26:27 ◼   ► There's no waiting around.

01:26:29 ◼   ► It doesn't go to a splash screen.

01:26:30 ◼   ► It doesn't say, "Okay, give me 10 minutes, check back."

01:26:33 ◼   ► And it's just, I think experience is sometimes

01:26:35 ◼   ► why those decisions are made,

01:26:37 ◼   ► even though they can support it or can ship it.

01:26:40 ◼   ► And some people will cry foul, like,

01:26:41 ◼   ► "Hey, I don't mind, just give it to me."

01:26:44 ◼   ► I think that sometimes it's a matter of that.

01:26:46 ◼   ► Sometimes it's a matter of resources

01:26:47 ◼   ► and supporting it or whatever.

01:26:49 ◼   ► But I guarantee that the best experience you're gonna have

01:26:52 ◼   ► is with the A11, 'cause this stuff is cutting edge.

01:26:54 ◼   ► And they built the silicon to support it.

01:26:57 ◼   ► They really said like, oh hey, we could do this?

01:27:00 ◼   ► Okay, well what do we need to get this done?

01:27:02 ◼   ► And they went and asked their silicon teams to build it.

01:27:04 ◼   ► You know, that's how it works.

01:27:05 ◼   ► - Then what else is new?

01:27:08 ◼   ► So all of the new iPhones, including the iPhone 8,

01:27:11 ◼   ► get a True Tone display.

01:27:13 ◼   ► And anybody who has an iPad Pro with a True Tone display,

01:27:18 ◼   ► which heretofore was the only Apple product with True Tone,

01:27:21 ◼   ► I love True Tone.

01:27:25 ◼   ► I cannot wait for it to, it's not quite as profound

01:27:29 ◼   ► as going from non-retina to retina, but it is close.

01:27:32 ◼   ► And it just like with retina,

01:27:36 ◼   ► once you have one device that's retina,

01:27:37 ◼   ► when you look at non-retina devices,

01:27:39 ◼   ► you're like, oh my God, look at these big fat pixels.

01:27:41 ◼   ► And it's like when you have a true tone device

01:27:44 ◼   ► and then you look at a non-true tone device

01:27:46 ◼   ► indoors with incandescent lighting,

01:27:47 ◼   ► you're like, why is everything so blue?

01:27:49 ◼   ► It's not an iPhone 10 only feature.

01:27:53 ◼   ► It is iPhone 8 and a serious, serious upgrade year over year.

01:27:58 ◼   ► Trying to think what else.

01:28:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, TrueTone's great.

01:28:04 ◼   ► I love that, I love that thing.

01:28:05 ◼   ► I mean, as somebody who's also hypersensitive

01:28:07 ◼   ► to color temperatures, it's been a huge, huge plus for me

01:28:11 ◼   ► with the iPads, so I'm really happy

01:28:13 ◼   ► to see that come to iPhone.

01:28:15 ◼   ► - In other words, and I think there were so many people

01:28:22 ◼   ► that I spoke to, you know, just other writers,

01:28:26 ◼   ► you know, Jim Dalrymple and other people,

01:28:28 ◼   ► like if there were no iPhone X this year,

01:28:31 ◼   ► the iPhone 8, as are, as they are,

01:28:33 ◼   ► exactly feature for feature and dollar for dollar,

01:28:37 ◼   ► what they cost, what they do,

01:28:38 ◼   ► would be a very solid year over year update.

01:28:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you'd have to endure,

01:28:45 ◼   ► Apple would have to endure that same wave of like,

01:28:48 ◼   ► oh, is the iPhone boring, you know, stuff,

01:28:50 ◼   ► But it would be fine.

01:28:52 ◼   ► Like the people would buy them.

01:28:53 ◼   ► People that needed an upgrade would get the upgrade.

01:28:56 ◼   ► You get nice solid camera upgrades.

01:28:58 ◼   ► You get a great new portrait lighting feature,

01:28:59 ◼   ► which I think is a really, really cool application

01:29:03 ◼   ► of computer vision.

01:29:04 ◼   ► You get a lot of nice things.

01:29:06 ◼   ► - A very, if you don't use a case,

01:29:08 ◼   ► a very different look with the glass backs.

01:29:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, the glass backs that we saw,

01:29:15 ◼   ► I mean, I really liked the gold.

01:29:17 ◼   ► I think it's really cool.

01:29:18 ◼   ► It has like a sort of pink cast to it in the back underneath the glass.

01:29:22 ◼   ► I guess it's like coated on the back as a sort of like millennial pink type pink.

01:29:27 ◼   ► Very Tope-y pink.

01:29:29 ◼   ► But it's good. I like it.

01:29:31 ◼   ► Part of the reason I wanted you to be on the show is that if you weren't the guest

01:29:34 ◼   ► for this wrap up show, I was going to have to rip you off in so many ways because

01:29:38 ◼   ► so many things that you said privately to me that I want to repeat.

01:29:42 ◼   ► But like, I like that they went from having two golds to having one gold.

01:29:46 ◼   ► and you described it as a, it's not rose gold,

01:29:49 ◼   ► but it is a rosy gold.

01:29:51 ◼   ► - Right. - And I think that is,

01:29:54 ◼   ► I can't explain it, if you've only seen it in photos

01:29:56 ◼   ► and you haven't seen it in person yet,

01:29:59 ◼   ► that's the best way to describe it.

01:30:00 ◼   ► And I think it is a very,

01:30:03 ◼   ► again, I probably shouldn't speak to fashion,

01:30:07 ◼   ► but it's, to me, seems like, from what I've seen

01:30:11 ◼   ► in storefronts and stuff like that--

01:30:12 ◼   ► - It's the kind of gold that changes

01:30:14 ◼   ► depending on what light you look at in it.

01:30:16 ◼   ► Like in the sunlight, it'll be very pink or whatever,

01:30:18 ◼   ► and then like under fluorescence,

01:30:20 ◼   ► it may look more straight gold.

01:30:22 ◼   ► But I don't think it's the death of rose gold

01:30:24 ◼   ► like everybody thinks it is.

01:30:25 ◼   ► - No, no, but it's like a shift

01:30:27 ◼   ► in what is the hot flavor of rose gold.

01:30:30 ◼   ► And the color of the glass is a very,

01:30:35 ◼   ► it just seems of the moment.

01:30:36 ◼   ► I don't know that it's a timeless color, I think,

01:30:40 ◼   ► but it's a very 2017, 2018 color.

01:30:44 ◼   ► - I think that's partly why so many of them--

01:30:47 ◼   ► - Which is fine.

01:30:48 ◼   ► Like it should be a color of the time, you know?

01:30:50 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:30:51 ◼   ► I think rose gold as it was is over, you know?

01:30:55 ◼   ► And it's interesting to me that they've kind of narrowed in

01:30:58 ◼   ► on one flavor of gold.

01:31:01 ◼   ► It looks great.

01:31:02 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:31:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, looks good.

01:31:05 ◼   ► And the silver looks good, you know?

01:31:07 ◼   ► All you gotta do is look over people's shoulders

01:31:10 ◼   ► at the thing and you see that the glass,

01:31:13 ◼   ► the glass back is definitely more active.

01:31:17 ◼   ► It feels like the backs of the aluminums

01:31:20 ◼   ► did feel a little bit static.

01:31:22 ◼   ► I think that's the best way to put it.

01:31:23 ◼   ► It's like, it feels solid, it feels static,

01:31:25 ◼   ► and some people like that, I get it.

01:31:27 ◼   ► But the reason I went with Jet Black with my iPhone 7

01:31:29 ◼   ► is 'cause it felt more alive.

01:31:31 ◼   ► It's like sparkly and shiny,

01:31:32 ◼   ► and you get a lot of cool reflections,

01:31:36 ◼   ► and just feels more, I don't know, more active to me.

01:31:40 ◼   ► And I think that the glass backs on the 8s

01:31:43 ◼   ► just make them feel there's translucency there.

01:31:46 ◼   ► There's more going on, you know?

01:31:48 ◼   ► And that may, it'll encourage more people

01:31:50 ◼   ► to use clear cases or no cases, all of that stuff.

01:31:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I wonder if--

01:31:55 ◼   ► - You know you mentioned, you mentioned the thing,

01:31:56 ◼   ► oh, sorry, go ahead.

01:31:57 ◼   ► - Well, no, you keep going.

01:31:59 ◼   ► - You mentioned the thing, I just wanted to loop back,

01:32:02 ◼   ► 'cause you mentioned the thing about

01:32:03 ◼   ► if they had not released an iPhone X.

01:32:05 ◼   ► And this might be an interesting time to talk about this,

01:32:07 ◼   ► But I've been thinking about this.

01:32:12 ◼   ► And I was gonna write about it at some point,