0:00:00Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls, it's your good friend John Gruber here welcoming you to episode
0:00:05200 of the talk show. It's quite a milestone
0:00:09Now there's going to be a regular episode of the talk show as soon as I can
0:00:14Where I'll have a special guest on and we will talk about last week's
0:00:19News the introduction of the iPhone 10 iPhone 8 Apple watch series 3
0:00:24Apple TV 4k the
0:00:29public opening of Apple Park, the grand premiere of the Steve Jobs Theater, all that and more,
0:00:36and digressions and parentheticals and it'll be great. But for this, the 200th episode of the
0:00:44show, I've got something, I think that's even better. I have a truly very special guest,
0:00:49Craig Federighi, Apple's Senior Vice President of Software Engineering, is here and I've got
0:00:56I've got a bunch of questions to ask him about Face ID
0:00:59and the development of the iPhone 10.
0:01:03But as you might imagine, Craig Federighi's a busy man
0:01:08and in a week like this, he's particularly busy.
0:01:11So this is not a two hour episode of the talk show.
0:01:14I think I'm only gonna have about 20 or 30 minutes
0:01:17of his time, but I think that's gonna be great.
0:01:19I can't think of a better way to mark the 200th episode
0:01:22of the show than to have a guest like him.
0:01:26But because this is a special episode,
0:01:28I've also got a special sponsor.
0:01:30The show is exclusively brought to you
0:01:32by the folks at DuckDuckGo.
0:01:36DuckDuckGo is the search engine that doesn't track you.
0:01:41Other search engines do track you, as you probably knew.
0:01:46But they also track you even in private browsing mode,
0:01:49which is probably something you didn't know.
0:01:51DuckDuckGo, DuckDuckGo has conducted some studies
0:01:55And they show that a large percentage of people,
0:02:00even privacy-minded people,
0:02:02vastly overestimate just how much private browsing does
0:02:05to protect your privacy when you're using search.
0:02:09A lot of people think when you're in private browsing
0:02:11your search is anonymous.
0:02:13It is not.
0:02:14They still track your IP address.
0:02:16They can still set cookies.
0:02:17They're just cookies that are per session.
0:02:19But then they can compare them to the cookies
0:02:21that they have at the same IP address from other sessions.
0:02:25It's not anonymous.
0:02:26Anyway, they have a study with high level findings.
0:02:30I'll put a link to it in the show notes somewhere.
0:02:33And I just wanna add one thing.
0:02:38Yes, DuckDuckGo emphasizes privacy, but guess what?
0:02:41It's also an excellent search engine.
0:02:44Apple has it added as one of the very, very few
0:02:50default search engine options in Safari
0:02:52on both Mac OS and iOS.
0:02:54I've been using it as my default search engine in Safari
0:02:58for years.
0:02:59And I don't know about a year or so ago,
0:03:01I switched my iPhone two and I have not looked back.
0:03:04It's that good.
0:03:05I wouldn't say that just because they were sponsoring
0:03:07the show, it's true.
0:03:09So my thanks to DuckDuckGo.
0:03:10You can check them out at duckduckgo.com
0:03:13or just go to your Safari settings
0:03:17and give them a try as your default search engine.
0:03:21And now on with the show.
0:03:23Hey, John.
0:03:25Another quiet week?
0:03:27Yeah, it's a good week.
0:03:32All right, so let's just get it out of the way first.
0:03:35During the keynote address, when you were demonstrating face ID
0:03:42in action for the very first time in public--
0:03:45Yes.
0:03:47--ho, ho, ho.
0:03:49Exactly according to plan.
0:03:51You know, it's tough when you rehearse something like that
0:03:53to really make it feel authentic in the moment,
0:03:55but I think I nailed it.
0:03:57No, I'm kidding.
0:03:58No, no, that was a thing, wasn't it?
0:04:01Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, so tell me
0:04:02what happened.
0:04:03- What happened?
0:04:06So, you know, we obviously,
0:04:09I live on a iPhone 10 right now
0:04:12and it works really reliably for me.
0:04:14And we had done the stage rehearsal a number of times.
0:04:18Of course, it works every time.
0:04:20So in the moment when I went to raise the phone
0:04:23to do what I'm used to doing and having it unlock,
0:04:25I was staring at a lock that did not unlock.
0:04:29And so that was a heart attack moment for me, honestly.
0:04:32You're just, it did not compute.
0:04:34We discovered after the fact what had gone on,
0:04:38but in the moment you're kind of wondering,
0:04:42wow, this is a surprise.
0:04:44So what had ended up happening is we had the phone
0:04:49on the stage, and people are pretty fast
0:04:53hideous about cleaning up and nudging things and so forth.
0:04:56And so the normal kind of bio lockout mechanisms
0:05:00that exist for Touch ID that everyone's used to apply
0:05:04to Face ID equally.
0:05:06And so with enough accidental unlock, failed unlock attempts,
0:05:11the system does its normal give me your passcode kind
0:05:14of lockout.
0:05:14And that was the moment I found myself in unexpectedly
0:05:18on stage.
0:05:19So fortunately, we have backups.
0:05:21So just went to that device, and that one apparently hadn't
0:05:24been nudged and locked out.
0:05:25So I was able to get on with the demo, which
0:05:28was fun to do after that.
0:05:31Right, so in other words, somebody backstage, somebody
0:05:34whose job is to, let's say, get these demo units exactly
0:05:38perfectly in the right place, looking perfect for the demo.
0:05:41They're exquisitely aligned on that table.
0:05:43You'd be impressed.
0:05:44That's what I've heard.
0:05:46- Can you confirm that they wear white gloves?
0:05:48I've heard that they white gloves them.
0:05:51- I'm not sure about the gloves,
0:05:52but I can tell you they polished that phone really well.
0:05:55Few too many times, I'm afraid.
0:05:59- Right, it's the perfectionism in Apple.
0:06:02Even on stage, if this is the first time
0:06:05we're gonna see Face ID, that phone is gonna be pristine.
0:06:08- Looking good, yeah.
0:06:10- Somebody picked it up to polish it,
0:06:12inadvertently without thinking,
0:06:16triggered the, hey, is this Craig?
0:06:19Nope.
0:06:19And it was not.
0:06:20Too many times.
0:06:21And all you would have had to do is put the passcode in.
0:06:24Yeah.
0:06:24Just like if somebody--
0:06:26Yeah, exactly.
0:06:26And I thought of that, but I thought
0:06:27that would be a pretty weird demo of face ID
0:06:29where I had to have typed in the passcode.
0:06:31Right.
0:06:32Right.
0:06:32So I decided to go to backup instead
0:06:34of typing in the passcode.
0:06:35But yeah, that would have worked too.
0:06:37Now I will say to your credit, and I've heard this many times,
0:06:41and I think it's true, is that the true test of a presenter--
0:06:44Demos are hard, and Murphy's Law tends to kick in.
0:06:48And the true test of a presenter isn't
0:06:51having a streak of never having a demo fail.
0:06:54It's how do you recover from a demo fail?
0:06:57And I think you handled it perfectly.
0:06:59I don't see how it could have gone any better, given--
0:07:01Oh, thank you.
0:07:02--the fact that the thing was already there.
0:07:04But the problem is-- the reason this is a particularly bad demo
0:07:07fail is that Face ID is new.
0:07:11Yeah, exactly.
0:07:12- Exactly.
0:07:13- And people, and to be honest,
0:07:16there are, there have been other attempts
0:07:19by other phone makers or gadget makers
0:07:23to do some kind of facial recognition thing,
0:07:25and it doesn't work that great.
0:07:28And so there's a perception, in the same way
0:07:30that there were fingerprint scanners before Touch ID
0:07:34that didn't work so great.
0:07:35- Oh yeah, exactly.
0:07:36- And the perception among people who don't try it is,
0:07:38I don't buy it.
0:07:39I'm skeptical about Face ID.
0:07:42And then lo and behold, there, at a glance,
0:07:45it looks like it didn't work for you.
0:07:47- Right, yeah, no, no, I mean,
0:07:50that element of this is not lost on me, for sure.
0:07:52That was unfortunate because it does work so well.
0:07:56And it is, I mean, it's obviously
0:07:58in a totally different league than what else
0:08:00is out there today.
0:08:02And we all, a bunch of us have been living on them
0:08:05for quite a while now, and it just works.
0:08:08It's really automatic.
0:08:09So that was part of the shock, I think, for me on stage,
0:08:13the moment it happened was, hold on, this just always works.
0:08:15So what's going on?
0:08:17But no, I get why there's a problem.
0:08:19And honestly, we're just all counting the days
0:08:23that customers can finally get their hands on these.
0:08:25Because I think just like with Touch ID,
0:08:28initially people thought, oh, Apple
0:08:30done something that's totally not going to work.
0:08:32And I'm not a believer.
0:08:33And I'm not going to use this feature.
0:08:35And now everyone's worried because they can't imagine life
0:08:39without Touch ID.
0:08:40And we're going to see exactly the same thing with Face ID.
0:08:44I mean, those of us that are using it,
0:08:46it's one thing when you have an idea
0:08:49and you're working toward it and you
0:08:51think it's going to be great.
0:08:53And then there's the moment when you actually create it
0:08:55and you get to live on it.
0:08:57And it's even better.
0:08:58And that's how all of us were virtually
0:09:01high-fiving in the halls once we got it all dialed in
0:09:04and we were living on them, we're like,
0:09:06it is what we thought it would be.
0:09:08You don't even think about it.
0:09:09It just works.
0:09:10And so in a way, all of this uncertainty
0:09:15out there amongst people who haven't had the opportunity
0:09:17to live on it, I totally get it.
0:09:18And it's going to melt away once people
0:09:21get to experience this product in their hands.
0:09:25And a skeptic listening to this could say, well, of course,
0:09:28Apple's senior vice president of software engineering
0:09:31is going to say that.
0:09:32I can say that I have various friends and acquaintances
0:09:36who work in your division.
0:09:38I happened to run into a few of them
0:09:42while I was out there this week,
0:09:44including somebody else who was disclosed,
0:09:47this is on iPhone 10,
0:09:49and had therefore been carrying two phones around
0:09:52for a while because it's, you know,
0:09:56if you're disclosed on it, you can't take it out
0:09:58when you're around people who aren't disclosed.
0:10:00So you have to have another phone in your pocket
0:10:02which is the one you can take out when you're in an area
0:10:05that's not secure.
0:10:06And what he told me, and he's the sort of person
0:10:09who would never lie to me.
0:10:12He may give me a non-answer, but he said,
0:10:14as soon as he got used to Face ID,
0:10:16it wasn't like he'd get mixed up going back and forth,
0:10:19which one do I need to put my thumb on,
0:10:20which one do I do it?
0:10:21He just instantly assumed Face ID would work on both phones.
0:10:25And instantly, never miss Touch ID.
0:10:31it was like, what's wrong with this phone?
0:10:32Why isn't it unlocking?
0:10:34And he's swiping up from the bottom
0:10:35and it's not doing anything.
0:10:37And that was the experience I had personally with touch ID
0:10:40is when I first got a iPhone 5S and I got used to touch ID
0:10:44and then I'd go over to my iPad
0:10:46and I'd put my thumb on the button and I'd be like,
0:10:47why is my iPad broken?
0:10:50- Yeah, no, I'm totally with you.
0:10:53- So it sounds like for those of you
0:10:54who've been living with iPhone 10
0:10:55that face ID has the same effect.
0:10:58- Yeah, it absolutely does.
0:11:00It absolutely does.
0:11:01It's pretty miraculous.
0:11:04It just works.
0:11:06And so, yeah, I can't wait till people actually get to try it.
0:11:10And you don't have to--
0:11:11even Touch ID, as much as we love it,
0:11:14I think this is that much better.
0:11:16If my hands are wet, it doesn't matter.
0:11:18It just works.
0:11:19So I think it's pretty great.
0:11:22So I know people have so many questions.
0:11:24I could just run through a bunch of them.
0:11:27I've gotten a slew of emails and tweets asking specifically
0:11:30about sunglasses because part of it is,
0:11:34it's not just your face, it requires eye contact.
0:11:38So for example, your kids can't sneak up on you
0:11:42when you're sleeping and unlock your phone
0:11:44by pointing it at your face.
0:11:45- That's exactly right, yeah, we call it attention detection
0:11:48and so we make sure not only that it's you
0:11:50but that you are looking at the phone.
0:11:53- All right, so what happens if you're wearing sunglasses?
0:11:55- Yeah, so it kinda depends.
0:11:56So for most sunglasses, actually,
0:11:59even if they're opaque to, they look opaque to you or me
0:12:02looking at the person wearing them,
0:12:04they actually transmit IR.
0:12:06And for those glasses, Touch ID, or Face ID rather,
0:12:10sees through them in the same way it would
0:12:13if you were wearing your normal prescription eyeglasses,
0:12:15and it just works.
0:12:16And there are some glasses that they're coating,
0:12:20and it's not polarization in particular,
0:12:22it's just how they transmit IR.
0:12:24There are some sunglasses that block it.
0:12:26And so in that case, attention detection would fail.
0:12:31So it really depends on the pair of glasses you have.
0:12:33So you have a choice.
0:12:34You can get a different pair of glasses
0:12:35if you have this problem.
0:12:37There's also the option that we have in there
0:12:40for a number of reasons that you can choose to temporarily
0:12:43or permanently disable attention detection.
0:12:45And so for instance, I've actually
0:12:47been getting some letters, emails,
0:12:49over the last few days with people saying, I'm blind.
0:12:53Can I use this feature?
0:12:55And in fact, you can.
0:12:57You turn off attention detection,
0:12:59in which case it makes sure it's you,
0:13:01but it isn't looking for the glance.
0:13:03And so we've sort of thought through
0:13:05a lot of those kinds of cases.
0:13:06And so you do have that option
0:13:08if there's something around your face wear
0:13:10that would block attention detection,
0:13:12but it does mean, in that case,
0:13:14that that other element of protection
0:13:15would be temporarily disabled.
0:13:18- Right, and it would be similar to,
0:13:21my hands are always wet.
0:13:22I have a job where I'm preparing stuff
0:13:24and my hands are wet, will Touch ID always work for me?
0:13:27And so there's always gonna be exceptions.
0:13:29I'm not making excuses for you, but it can't be perfect.
0:13:32- No, it's true, and we've always had the fallback
0:13:35with Touch ID and we do with Face ID as well,
0:13:37is you can use your passcode.
0:13:39So if you find yourself in some circumstance
0:13:41where you can't use it, it's exactly the same
0:13:44as all of us are used to with Touch ID,
0:13:46just use your passcode.
0:13:48But I'm certainly finding the vast majority
0:13:51of the cases I'm using, it's always working for me.
0:13:53I don't even have to think about it.
0:13:54- Right.
0:13:55And so bottom line, this really is what you guys think
0:14:01is the next generation of biometric authentication.
0:14:07It's not just, hey, we went edge to edge
0:14:10so there wasn't room for touch ID.
0:14:12It's no, this is along the lines of this,
0:14:16we think this is the future of the iPhone.
0:14:18Face ID is the future, the next step
0:14:21in biometric authentication?
0:14:25Yeah, we do.
0:14:26We do.
0:14:26I mean, I think there are potentially
0:14:28settings where different biometric techniques
0:14:32or combinations thereof even could make sense.
0:14:34But I think there's something about you're using--
0:14:38certainly in cases you're using a product that
0:14:41demands your attention and it recognizes you.
0:14:44And I mean, this is how we as people
0:14:46work in authenticating each other, right?
0:14:48We identify each other.
0:14:49It's the most natural thing in the world.
0:14:51And now you interact.
0:14:52And so we find--
0:14:53I think we're all wired for that interaction to work really well.
0:14:56And it's extremely natural with our devices.
0:15:00And the levels of accuracy, the level of security
0:15:05we're able to achieve with it are pretty extraordinary.
0:15:07So we are really excited about this as the path forward.
0:15:13And so for example, your iPhone, just based on, let's say,
0:15:17your email and your iMessages alone,
0:15:20probably contains some sensitive information.
0:15:23- Yeah.
0:15:24- And you yourself have, the phone in your pocket
0:15:26is guarded by Face ID.
0:15:29- That is absolutely correct, yes.
0:15:31At this very moment.
0:15:32- So there you have it.
0:15:34If that's not trust in a system, I don't know what is.
0:15:37- That's right, and same is true for Tim Cook, right?
0:15:40Everyone at Apple is trusting Face ID.
0:15:45Everyone who has access to an iPhone X right now.
0:15:48All right, so another thing that people--
0:15:50I've heard from during Fireball readers
0:15:53is, well, why can't I just look at it to unlock it?
0:15:55Why do I have to swipe?
0:15:58Yeah, I've gotten that one too.
0:16:01I think if you think about--
0:16:03a lot of us like functionality on the lock screen, right?
0:16:06We want to look at our notifications.
0:16:07Maybe we're just looking at the time.
0:16:10Maybe we wanted to get to the lock screen camera.
0:16:13And we now have a quick shortcut, actually,
0:16:15to get at the flashlight.
0:16:17So the idea that every time you did one of those things,
0:16:19you're suddenly tossed into mail or Twitter
0:16:23or whatever you were last doing, I don't think
0:16:26is a very predictable experience.
0:16:28And I think those people are fearful of--
0:16:31they haven't had the opportunity to really live on the device
0:16:33and use it.
0:16:34And so they have a sense that this doing the swipe
0:16:38is going to somehow be a barrier.
0:16:41So they're trying to solve a problem that, in fact, when you
0:16:43use the device doesn't exist.
0:16:46They think you have to wait for it to unlock,
0:16:48and then you swipe, and so it's going to feel unresponsive.
0:16:50The fact is that the moment you raise the phone,
0:16:54you can start swiping whether it's
0:16:55finished recognizing you or not.
0:16:57And if that's what you wanted to do,
0:16:59it's going to automatically take you--
0:17:01it's going to automatically unlock
0:17:02once it finishes, recognizes you, which feels
0:17:04pretty much instantaneous.
0:17:06And so I think preserving the access to the lock screen
0:17:10is more important than avoiding this swipe
0:17:15that I think to all of us who live on it,
0:17:17it just feels completely automatic and intentional
0:17:20in the use of the phone.
0:17:21- With all the nostalgia over this being
0:17:25the 10th anniversary of the original iPhone,
0:17:27somebody just on Twitter today,
0:17:29or no, I don't know, somewhere,
0:17:31somebody threw up a link to a YouTube clip
0:17:34of the original iPhone commercials from 2007.
0:17:39And it starts with this is how you unlock it
0:17:43and you swipe to unlock.
0:17:45And it was sort of a, I mean it was only 10 years ago
0:17:48but it's sort of like we were naive about security
0:17:51at the time where it was sort of,
0:17:52it was encouraged to just wake the phone
0:17:57and swipe to unlock and you're in there
0:17:59and the last 10 years we've,
0:18:01we as a culture have really sharpened our minds
0:18:05on privacy and security.
0:18:08But this sort of goes back to that
0:18:10where you just pick it up even better than before
0:18:13'cause there's the detection of the,
0:18:16the screen turns on just by picking it up.
0:18:18And you just make one little swipe gesture and you're in.
0:18:22It really hearkens back to the original.
0:18:24It's up instead of to the side,
0:18:26but it's very similar to me.
0:18:28- Exactly, yeah, no, it does.
0:18:31And it's, as you say, it's even easier to do,
0:18:34it's even more automatic.
0:18:35But it's the same sense of when you think about that,
0:18:38the original device where security wasn't a consideration,
0:18:43that was the best way to use the phone.
0:18:47And now with Face ID, it's as if you can just use it
0:18:51in the most natural way where security
0:18:53isn't this overt part of the process.
0:18:55It's automatic, so the experience is back
0:18:58to exactly as we wanted it to be.
0:19:00- While I have you, Apple famously,
0:19:07I mean, this is right back from the founding of the company.
0:19:12Famously, the key to the company's product success
0:19:16has been the integration between software and hardware,
0:19:19doing both of them.
0:19:22But at this point, and I think with the hardware
0:19:29for the Face ID that's in the phone,
0:19:32It's not like you guys went out and got an off-the-shelf face scanner component.
0:19:40Put it at the top of the phone, and then your team--
0:19:44all right, now your job is to write drivers for this thing
0:19:47and then create APIs for our developers to connect to it.
0:19:51Right.
0:19:53The entire-- from the silicon up is custom Apple-designed.
0:19:59How different is that for your team working
0:20:02at that silicon level as opposed to off-the-shelf component
0:20:05level with the hardware?
0:20:07I mean, this is--
0:20:08I mean, you're right.
0:20:10This is what makes Apple, Apple.
0:20:11I mean, this is the most special and the biggest treat
0:20:14as a creator of products for all of us
0:20:17to be able to look at a problem like this
0:20:20and know that we can put the right support that we want
0:20:24onto the core silicon of the system.
0:20:28We-- Phil talked about the neural engine that's
0:20:32on the chip that we could wire in for doing
0:20:35this high-performance recognition,
0:20:37this challenging recognition task,
0:20:39and that we can even make sure that the silicon that we've
0:20:42built to do it is tied in behind the secure enclave
0:20:45so that we have all the security properties we
0:20:48want in that architecture.
0:20:49I mean, I can't imagine where you
0:20:50would buy that off the shelf.
0:20:53And then the way it is connected to this just absolutely
0:20:56amazing set of sensors at the top of the phone,
0:21:02and the design of that, and the design of how the flood
0:21:06illuminator and the dot pattern and all the mechanisms
0:21:09for recognition, that was co-designed
0:21:11between the hardware and sensors team and our security team
0:21:15to figure out all of the different ways we wanted that
0:21:18to work securely to make sure that the device could store
0:21:22what it needed to match your face without making sure
0:21:25that that information was completely
0:21:27under your control, locked up behind the secure enclave
0:21:31and never left your phone.
0:21:34All of this is the ability to think about a really hard
0:21:38problem end to end and then bring
0:21:40to bear the best minds and the best technologies
0:21:44at every level along that stack to deliver it
0:21:47is the most special experience in creating a product.
0:21:52And that's why it is kind of magic when it finally
0:21:54all comes together.
0:21:55It wasn't just a bunch of pieces that you bolted together.
0:21:58You had an idea, you had a vision,
0:22:00and here you can make it real.
0:22:03Yeah, I was thinking software and hardware.
0:22:05I wasn't even thinking about security
0:22:07being a fundamental part of the collaboration
0:22:11from the white sheet of paper at the beginning
0:22:14of the whole process to the end.
0:22:16But that makes a lot of sense, too.
0:22:18It really has become--
0:22:20I mean, security and privacy have
0:22:22become a consideration in the design of so many
0:22:25of the things we do, many, many of the things we do.
0:22:28And to do them right, you have to think about them
0:22:31at a fundamental level.
0:22:32You have to design them in, often to the silicon,
0:22:35often to the hardware, to really make a truly secure product.
0:22:40And we have the opportunity to do that.
0:22:42And it's a rare opportunity, I think.
0:22:44Right, I'm imagining if it was just hardware and software,
0:22:47and you made a facial ID scanner,
0:22:49and then a couple of months ago went to the security guys
0:22:52And I'm like, here, make sure this is secure.
0:22:54Yeah, right.
0:22:55It's got a little USB line between the camera and the chip
0:22:59and no problem.
0:23:00Yeah, exactly.
0:23:02No, and it's true.
0:23:03I should say one more thing, which
0:23:05is this even ops, our operations and manufacturing team,
0:23:09ends up being involved here.
0:23:10Because when you think about how you secure this thing,
0:23:13you now have all these components
0:23:15that need to trust each other and need
0:23:17to have secure connections to one another.
0:23:19And so even the whole process by which we manufacture and then
0:23:24pair all of the components on the system
0:23:28has to be considered as part of the manufacturing process.
0:23:32And this is something that we think about end to end
0:23:34when we build a product.
0:23:36And I do think it's pretty special.
0:23:40Let's say I'm an app developer, and I
0:23:42have an app that already works with Touch ID, like my credit
0:23:47card app.
0:23:48When I launch that app, I have to authenticate with Touch ID
0:23:51before I'm in.
0:23:54Would an app like that-- does an app like that need to be updated
0:23:57to support Face ID, too?
0:23:59No, actually, we were able to support exactly the same API.
0:24:03So if you think about how it works right now,
0:24:05that app would essentially-- it asks the system to request
0:24:11a Touch ID authentication.
0:24:14Now, instead of waiting for the user
0:24:17to put their finger on the sensor
0:24:20and complete a Touch ID authentication,
0:24:22we automatically, at the system level,
0:24:25will surface our face ID UI showing
0:24:29that we're doing a match.
0:24:31And we can return the same success code
0:24:33to the application saying, great, thumbs up or thumbs down,
0:24:37as if the system had presented the previous generation Touch
0:24:41ID screen and the user had failed to match or canceled out
0:24:44of the Touch ID operation.
0:24:46So it's extraordinary that right now we're all running on apps
0:24:50that were designed for Touch ID.
0:24:51And they work just perfectly out of the box with Face ID.
0:24:55It's almost like you guys might have had an idea of what
0:24:58might be coming down the line.
0:25:00We like to think we think ahead sometimes.
0:25:04All right, here's a scenario that, for obvious reasons,
0:25:09is on a lot of people's minds is what happens if you are, say, involved in a situation with
0:25:20law enforcement or perhaps going through customs and there, you know, I don't know what the
0:25:28laws are around the world, but I know that there's this, to me, very strange, there's
0:25:34been a ruling in the United States that law enforcement can compel somebody to supply
0:25:39their fingerprint to a phone, but can't compel somebody to supply their passcode. So we're
0:25:46not lawyers, let's forget about the legal distinction. iOS 11 adds a feature where you
0:25:53can press the side button on an iPhone, existing iPhones at least, five times. And then all
0:26:02it does is just put you in a situation like you are after a power down power up where
0:26:06where you have to supply your passcode
0:26:08before the biometrics can unlock the phone.
0:26:12- Yeah, exactly.
0:26:13- I think people are,
0:26:15I know, in fact, I know people are more worried about this
0:26:18with Face ID than Touch ID
0:26:19because compelling someone to supply their fingerprint
0:26:22involves more than just if somebody is in possession
0:26:27of your phone, pointing it at your face
0:26:30and making you look at it.
0:26:31So is there anything like that, some kind of way to--
0:26:36I mean, first I'd say we aren't designing products with an aim
0:26:40to avoid law enforcement doing their job.
0:26:44We appreciate law enforcement.
0:26:48But there are lots of scenarios where someone who you don't
0:26:51trust might be trying to get your phone.
0:26:55That could be a thief coming for you.
0:26:57That could be a border crossing into a country
0:26:59where you think the people who are trying to inspect
0:27:01your phone may not be someone you trust.
0:27:04And in those situations, as you mentioned,
0:27:07we introduced this new capability with iOS 11,
0:27:13where you can basically force the device into biolock.
0:27:16We made it even easier to get to on iPhone 8 and iPhone 10,
0:27:21where on iPhone 8 and 10, you can just grip the side button.
0:27:25So both the screen lock button on the right hand
0:27:28side of the phone and either of the volume buttons
0:27:30on the left, and just grip those two together for a few seconds
0:27:34and we will put the phone in biolock.
0:27:36So it's the kind of thing that you could do in your pocket
0:27:41as you were being compelled to hand your phone to someone
0:27:45you didn't trust.
0:27:46And then they can't use either touch ID or, in the case
0:27:51of iPhone 10, face ID to try to get access to your phone.
0:27:55And we think that's an important improvement across the board.
0:27:59On iPhone 10, does that not conflict
0:28:02with taking a screenshot?
0:28:03I thought I read somewhere that to take a screenshot,
0:28:05you do the side button and volume down.
0:28:07Yeah, it does turn out you get a bonus screenshot out
0:28:09of the experience in the current build.
0:28:11But we are looking at saying, if you hold the buttons down,
0:28:13maybe we'll throw the screenshot away for you automatically.
0:28:16You could consider it a sort of a commemorative screenshot
0:28:19for that particular moment.
0:28:21I got you.
0:28:22I got you, though.
0:28:23You side button and just tap and release on volume down.
0:28:25Yeah, just claw your phone, basically.
0:28:26Yeah, just grip it.
0:28:27No, but if you just want to take a screenshot,
0:28:29it's just two buttons.
0:28:31You press them to invoke this.
0:28:32- When they let go.
0:28:34- To invoke this, turn off face ID temporarily,
0:28:37you press and hold them.
0:28:39- Yeah, exactly.
0:28:40It's the difference between sort of click
0:28:41and click and hold.
0:28:42Right now we're firing the click on the click and hold
0:28:46and that need not be a conflict.
0:28:48- Right, and with the five button press
0:28:51on the iPhone 7 and earlier,
0:28:53you even get a nice bit of haptic feedback now
0:28:56to know that it triggered.
0:28:57Is there something like that with the press both buttons?
0:29:00- Same thing.
0:29:01- You get a haptic so you know you've done it, exactly.
0:29:04- Right, so that's brilliant.
0:29:05So let's just say, and thieves are a perfect example.
0:29:08I know that that's something that people are worried about,
0:29:10is hey, what if somebody steals my phone
0:29:13and they quick turn it around and I look at it
0:29:15and it's unlocked.
0:29:17So if somebody, like if you're getting mugged,
0:29:19I hope nobody does, but if somebody is getting mugged
0:29:22and they say, "Give me your phone,"
0:29:23as you're handing it to them, if you squeeze those buttons,
0:29:26it will disable Face ID.
0:29:29- Exactly.
0:29:31So they've got your phone, but they won't have your,
0:29:33they won't have an unlocked phone.
0:29:34- That is right, yep.
0:29:36- Seems like you guys thought of a lot of this stuff.
0:29:40- We try, we try, but the folks on the internet
0:29:43are constantly coming up with new questions,
0:29:45so I'm sure we'll learn something.
0:29:46- Well, Craig, it's always a pleasure
0:29:50to have you on the show.
0:29:52You're welcome back anytime you want.
0:29:54- Oh, thank you, John.
0:29:55- But like I said, you're probably pretty busy this week, so.
0:30:00Exciting week.
0:30:00That's about it for me.
0:30:01Good week.
0:30:01Yeah.
0:30:02All right, awesome.
0:30:03I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you.
0:30:06All right.
0:30:06Till next time, Craig.
0:30:07Thank you.
0:30:08All right.
0:30:08Thanks, John.