The Talk Show

191: ‘He Ends Up Fighting Hervé Villechaize’ With Jim Dalrymple


00:00:00   Jim, where are you John?

00:00:01   I'm pretty good.

00:00:03   We just had a long pre show talk about.

00:00:08   How about they pretty put?

00:00:11   Yeah, in the context of this show, let's just say

00:00:14   let's just summarize it all is it's good.

00:00:15   Yes, it's um.

00:00:16   I have to take you to task for something.

00:00:19   Alright, please do.

00:00:20   Is anybody ever done that first thing

00:00:21   like right off the bat?

00:00:23   I don't know.

00:00:23   Well, they should.

00:00:26   OK, well I'm going to.

00:00:27   The correct answer.

00:00:29   Is Sean Connery always always Sean Connery?

00:00:34   I would have thought I would have thought that you might be a Roger Moore man.

00:00:37   Oh, Sean Connery.

00:00:39   Well, I mean, I would if you ask me who my favorite bond is,

00:00:43   I would still say Sean Connery and and his bond movies altogether are my favorite,

00:00:49   favorites and From Russia with Love in

00:00:52   particular would be my answer to my favorite Bond movie.

00:00:56   But I have a soft spot for Roger Moore and I like Daniel Craig as well and I

00:01:03   like Pierce Brosnan in the role. I just feel like the producers let those

00:01:09   movies sort of get away and they made bad movies with a good actor

00:01:13   for Bond. Yeah I agree with that. But anytime, you know what I think it is to

00:01:20   be honest? My father didn't like Roger Moore. Yeah my dad did not either. And

00:01:25   I think that's probably the reason, you know, you grow up with that and I think that was probably it.

00:01:32   But as an adult, I just love everything Sean Connery does. And I could sit and listen to him

00:01:37   talk, you know, just forever. So...

00:01:40   Yeah. Well, as a kid who was born in the early '70s, for me, it was very, very... I think even

00:01:47   now in hindsight, right now in 2017, you can look back and you can see that the Connery Bond movies

00:01:53   look like the 60s and the Moore ones look like the 70s.

00:01:56   Um, but to me as a kid in the late 70s,

00:02:02   when I first started watching them, it,

00:02:05   it was the difference between these look fresh,

00:02:09   like these look like new movies and the Connery ones look old and old as a kid

00:02:14   is just never a good thing. And I liked, you know,

00:02:18   I think they were actually were in some ways,

00:02:21   I think part of it too is that the Roger Moore movies were a little bit more meant for kids.

00:02:25   You know, that the, I think so. I think that the emphasis on stunts and some of the silliness,

00:02:31   you know, the, you know, there were more gags. It wasn't just, you know, I think the only real

00:02:37   funny things in the Connery ones were when Connery would just say something funny,

00:02:40   which was great. We'll just let Sean talk. But like in the Roger Moore one, so for example,

00:02:49   And if you look at--

00:02:52   I know that back in the day when Dan Benjamin and I did

00:02:55   the thing on the show where we ran through each--

00:02:57   at the end of every episode for 23 episodes in a row,

00:03:01   we'd review one of the Bond movies in order.

00:03:04   And when you watch him in order, you

00:03:06   pick things up that you don't see otherwise.

00:03:08   Like during the Moore era, there was a running gag

00:03:11   between the movies where there was the same guy--

00:03:14   I forget who he was.

00:03:14   He was like a producer or something like that.

00:03:16   But one of the producers of the movie

00:03:18   would make a cameo in a scene.

00:03:22   And something crazy would happen,

00:03:23   where Bond would shoot down the ski slopes

00:03:27   and burst right through a building through the wall.

00:03:30   And then there's the guy with a glass of wine.

00:03:33   [LAUGHTER]

00:03:36   You know what I mean?

00:03:37   He just looks at his glass of wine like, am I drunk

00:03:39   or did that just happen?

00:03:40   And the best one is--

00:03:42   I think it actually is pretty funny.

00:03:44   It's in The Spy Who Loves Me.

00:03:46   and Bond is driving the Lotus submarine car

00:03:50   and comes out of the ocean on a beach full of sunbathers

00:03:56   and he drives right out of the ocean

00:03:59   and there's the guy with a glass of wine on the beach

00:04:01   and he just looks at the glass of wine like,

00:04:04   Jesus Christ, am I fucked up or did I just see a car

00:04:07   drive out of the ocean?

00:04:09   I love that, that's great.

00:04:12   And that's the sort of thing that just,

00:04:14   it would have never worked in the Connery movies.

00:04:18   And I think it's obviously a little childish

00:04:20   to have a submarine car that drives out of the ocean

00:04:24   onto a beach.

00:04:26   Well, I'm with you.

00:04:28   Connery was the best.

00:04:29   But more, I think you've got to give him credit.

00:04:32   And I really do think you have to give him credit.

00:04:34   Because what he did was he in no way shaped--

00:04:36   he was totally comfortable with not being as good as Connery.

00:04:40   Like, you know what I mean?

00:04:43   he didn't try to be Sean Connery, he didn't try to outdo Sean Connery, he just was himself,

00:04:48   and he was very, very comfortable as Roger Moore's James Bond.

00:04:52   That's a good point. That is a good point. You wouldn't want somebody coming in

00:04:57   trying to be the guy before him. He did make it his own. And I think that that's what turned it

00:05:06   into this franchise that can span 40, 50 years and is ongoing, is it more made it possible

00:05:14   for them to do three or four or five pictures with an actor in the role and then not really

00:05:20   reboot it, but sort of semi reboot it. You know, and the more one in particular, they

00:05:26   didn't recast any of the other roles. The same guy played M, the same guy played Q,

00:05:30   the same woman played many Moneypenny, but he was not the same guy. He was James Bond,

00:05:35   but he was not the same James Bond.

00:05:36   And he somehow made it work.

00:05:38   And it turned it into a different kind of franchise.

00:05:43   - Well, he was the longest running one, right?

00:05:46   - Yeah, definitely.

00:05:47   He made six movies and it spans 1972, I think,

00:05:52   was when, it was either '72 or '73,

00:05:55   when Live and Let Die came out.

00:05:59   That was his first one.

00:06:01   And then he did Man with the Golden Gun,

00:06:04   which was his worst one

00:06:05   and one of the worst Bond movies ever made.

00:06:07   I mean, he ends up fighting a midget at the end.

00:06:09   (laughing)

00:06:11   He does, he ends up fighting Herpe Villages.

00:06:14   - Okay, we can just end the podcast right now.

00:06:17   What a note to end it on right there.

00:06:19   - Then came his best movie, "The Spy Who Loved Me."

00:06:23   Then came "Moonraker," which I think when Dan and I

00:06:27   reviewed them, I sort of pooh-poohed

00:06:29   because of all the silly space stuff at the end.

00:06:31   But I've since come around, and especially up until the space

00:06:35   stuff, it's a really solid Roger Moore Bond movie.

00:06:39   Then came-- this is all off the top of my head.

00:06:41   This is how good I have these memorized.

00:06:44   For Your Eyes Only, which is not good.

00:06:47   And then came Octopussy, which is a great title.

00:06:54   And then this last one was A View to a Kill,

00:06:57   which he was pretty old for.

00:06:59   Because one of the things people don't realize

00:07:00   Moore is actually older, was older, last week, just talk about him in the past tense, was

00:07:05   older than Sean Connery. So they replaced Sean Connery with an actor who was already

00:07:09   a couple of, like, I don't know, like nine months older than Sean Connery. So they didn't

00:07:14   recast it younger when they replaced him with Moore. And, you know, I remember as a kid

00:07:20   when When a View to a Kill came out, I was like 12 or 13 or something like that. And

00:07:24   all of the reviews mentioned how old Roger Moore was. It was just, it's just what they

00:07:29   But if you watch it, it kind of holds up.

00:07:32   And I don't think that they were pretending that he was a young man.

00:07:35   You know, it's like, well, Bond is 55 years old and he's still on the service. So what?

00:07:41   Yeah, they never did make much of a big case about that. I mean, Bond was just cool.

00:07:48   You know, he can do all this crazy stuff because he's Bond.

00:07:53   Doesn't matter how old he is, he's good looking, he's Bond, he gets lots of women.

00:07:58   That's that's the character.

00:08:00   And he likes to drive fast cars.

00:08:04   He likes to drive fast cars with all kinds of toys.

00:08:06   Oil slicks and machine guns and submarines.

00:08:11   Yep.

00:08:11   That almost sounds like you.

00:08:15   That's your life right there.

00:08:18   Martini's.

00:08:19   Martini's.

00:08:20   Yes.

00:08:21   Yes.

00:08:24   But now it really does seem before we get off it, it really does seem to.

00:08:28   I wrote I linked a whole you know everybody knows I love bond

00:08:30   So why not when when Roger Moore dies spend a week with lots of links?

00:08:35   He just seems like he was a genuinely great guy

00:08:39   He really did devote the last few decades of his life to UNICEF, which is a great cause

00:08:45   He really did seem to care and and you know like that

00:08:50   There was this story that some guy passed around and it seems legit because he's got the autograph about

00:08:54   When he was a seven did you see that that story I posted where he was a seven-year-old and he met Roger Moore in an

00:09:00   Airport in 1983. I didn't see that one. Okay, so for those you missed it. This is great story

00:09:05   Alright, I will put it in the show notes. I

00:09:08   Swear to god

00:09:12   So this kid

00:09:15   is

00:09:16   Seven years old 1983. He's in an airport in in nice. I don't know how you pronounce it. Then I see nice nice

00:09:22   and he's with his grandfather and he said this is like before there were like first class lounges

00:09:31   and he's just sitting there right at the airport terminal is Roger Moore reading a newspaper and

00:09:36   he says oh my god granddad that's that's James Bond and his grandfather has no idea who James

00:09:42   Bond is no idea who Roger Moore is but he knows his kid is very excited and this man is very

00:09:46   famous and he says would you like me to introduce you to him and he goes yeah yeah yeah so the

00:09:50   grandfather walks up and he goes, "Excuse me, sir. My son says you're very famous.

00:09:55   We don't mean to bother you, but would you mind signing the back of his

00:10:00   plane ticket?" And Roger Moore, he says, is very gracious and said, "Oh, it would be my

00:10:04   pleasure." He folds down the newspaper and takes a pen and he asks him his name

00:10:07   and writes a little thing, "Timothy, good luck. Best wishes, Roger Moore."

00:10:12   And the kid walks away and the kid said, "I didn't really read Cursive at

00:10:15   the time, but I could kind of read it and I could tell that whatever he signed his

00:10:20   name it didn't say James Bond. And he says, "Grandpa, Granddad, what does this say?" And he says,

00:10:26   "Best wishes, Timmy, to, you know, Roger Moore." And he goes, "That's not his name, his name's James Bond!"

00:10:31   And now the kid thinks that, now the kid's granddad thinks that maybe Roger Moore is an

00:10:36   asshole and like pranked the kid. And he went up to him and said, "Hey, my kid says that's not the right

00:10:40   name, that your name is James Bond." And the kid says, "Roger Moore just looked at him and he

00:10:46   had him, you know, and he gave him that Roger Moore raised eyebrow and had him come close,

00:10:51   and he whispered to the kid, "My name is James Bond, but when I'm traveling I must use a fake name."

00:10:57   Oh my god! And he says, "Now you know, and I know, but you must keep this between us." And the kid

00:11:08   just walked off and said, "All of a sudden, instead of having the wrong autograph on a ticket, I was

00:11:12   on a mission with James Bond.

00:11:14   Wow.

00:11:16   And then the kid grew up and worked in the film industry

00:11:19   and was on the set.

00:11:20   It was doing a TV commercial for UNICEF

00:11:22   where Roger Moore was going to be there.

00:11:24   Now the kid's like 30 years old.

00:11:25   It's 20 years later.

00:11:27   And during the day, he walked up to him and said,

00:11:31   hey, you probably won't remember me.

00:11:32   But back in 1983, I was seven years old and niece,

00:11:36   and I met you at the airport.

00:11:38   And he told Roger Moore the story.

00:11:40   And Roger Moore laughs and says, I don't remember that,

00:11:42   but that sounds like me, you know.

00:11:44   It's very nice to see you again.

00:11:46   And then they shoot this commercial,

00:11:47   and at the end of the day,

00:11:48   the guy's walking down the hallway,

00:11:49   and Roger Moore's leaving as well to go,

00:11:52   his car's gonna pick him up, take him to his hotel.

00:11:54   And Moore says to him in the hallway,

00:11:56   and he goes, "Of course I remembered you,

00:11:58   "but you can't trust those cameramen."

00:12:00   (laughing)

00:12:01   Any one of them could be working for Spector.

00:12:03   - Oh, wow.

00:12:06   That's great.

00:12:08   What a story.

00:12:10   - And it just seems like Roger Moore

00:12:11   was the type of guy who that sort of thing came naturally to.

00:12:13   And you just know that eyebrow.

00:12:15   When he says that he raised his eyebrow, you just know the look, right?

00:12:18   Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:12:20   Oh, man.

00:12:21   What a great comeback.

00:12:22   You know?

00:12:23   So great.

00:12:24   Of course, I'm James Bond.

00:12:26   All right, let's take a break here.

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00:14:58   - Ah, got some good coffee here, Jim.

00:15:03   - Yeah, me too.

00:15:04   - I think it's very obvious what we want to talk about

00:15:05   just in the noodling before the show is it's,

00:15:09   here it is, we're recording on May 25th,

00:15:11   WWDC is coming up fast.

00:15:13   Let's talk about what we expect at WWDC.

00:15:16   - Well--

00:15:17   - I mean, that's a show right there, right?

00:15:18   - There's definitely gonna be new iPhones,

00:15:22   brand new design with lasers.

00:15:25   (laughing)

00:15:27   Okay, so--

00:15:30   - What would James Bond have on his iPhone today?

00:15:35   This is a serious question, because we actually--

00:15:38   our iPhones and our Apple watches--

00:15:40   I actually almost called it an iWatch there,

00:15:43   which I never do.

00:15:45   And our Apple watches are like James Bond gadgets.

00:15:47   I mean, I've said this before.

00:15:49   I put it in my initial Apple Watch review,

00:15:52   where Roger Moore in this "By Who Loved Me"

00:15:55   has a little digital watch.

00:15:56   It's a Seiko, and it gives him secure text messages

00:16:00   from MI6 headquarters, except instead of showing them

00:16:03   on the screen, it prints them out on ticker tape.

00:16:06   (laughing)

00:16:08   Like if you think, you know, like where does the spool

00:16:15   of ticker tape go?

00:16:16   - Now that's what I want in my Apple Watch.

00:16:20   I want a ticker tape thing so when my texts come in,

00:16:23   it will print them out.

00:16:23   - Right, like being able to raise your wrist

00:16:27   and see a text message that was sent totally securely,

00:16:31   like an iMessage where it's got end-to-end

00:16:32   encryption is a James Bond feature of was when we were kids now it's something

00:16:38   you can go out and buy for $299 yeah I want that I don't what would James Bond

00:16:43   have on his iPhone that normal people don't have I mean like a switchblade

00:16:47   like you know what do you call it I know you call those zappers like a cattle

00:16:55   prod you know what I mean like the a stun gun type thing like tasers taser

00:16:58   Yeah, I think a taser would be useful

00:17:00   No, he would have to have like a laser or something that he could shoot. Yeah with wouldn't he? I mean, it's got to be something

00:17:07   Yeah, Roger Moore had a laser on his on his watch one minute one of those movies. I think it live and let die

00:17:12   hmm remember that he was jumping on crocodile heads and

00:17:16   As you would you know

00:17:21   No, there's not gonna be an I know iPhones at WWDC correct no

00:17:27   No, no iPhones.

00:17:30   So let's first, let's talk about what we know

00:17:34   is gonna be there, and that's software.

00:17:36   - Right.

00:17:37   - 'Cause it is WWDC.

00:17:38   It is, and that's one thing that people have to remember

00:17:41   going into this.

00:17:42   I would expect that there would be some other things

00:17:46   that they talk about, but software is the big thing.

00:17:48   - Well, and the other thing about software

00:17:50   is that software, and again, I don't want to make light

00:17:54   of the job that Apple's software engineering teams do

00:17:59   as compared to hardware.

00:18:01   But hardware is like a,

00:18:03   if the idea is a complete product

00:18:06   and one aspect of it falls behind schedule,

00:18:10   for the most part that means the whole project is delayed.

00:18:13   So like let's say for example,

00:18:15   there is a new iPhone coming out that has an OLED screen

00:18:19   instead of the LED screens

00:18:21   that the current ones have had to date.

00:18:24   And the whole thing is planned around this.

00:18:26   And at some point, let's say right now,

00:18:28   they find out the supply of OLED that we need,

00:18:31   the exact one we need, it's not going to meet demand.

00:18:34   That might set the whole thing back, maybe.

00:18:37   Or they have to switch it up.

00:18:38   But with a software project like iOS and Mac OS and tvOS

00:18:42   and whatever, they might say, here's

00:18:44   the seven things we want in iOS 11.

00:18:46   And if two of them are like, maybe not ready,

00:18:49   they can just go with the five that are ready and say,

00:18:52   those two that aren't, you know,

00:18:55   we were hoping to get those two out this year,

00:18:56   but we'll do those next year, right?

00:18:59   So the annual nature of the software,

00:19:01   it's more or less just which major features

00:19:06   are gonna, are on schedule, and then they make the cut.

00:19:09   So we're gonna see iOS 11,

00:19:11   we're gonna see Mac OS 10.13.

00:19:14   - Right, yeah, and they'll show us some new features

00:19:19   that are gonna be in there.

00:19:20   There's always a couple of things that people are really looking for.

00:19:25   In recent years, there's been a lot of integration between the two.

00:19:28   And then they'll open up a bunch of new APIs and developers get to work.

00:19:37   And it's funny, I was talking to James Dempsey yesterday or the day before, and

00:19:42   I said, when a lot of the press sit there, we look at the WDC keynote

00:19:50   and they announce, you know, a new iPad or, you know, an iPod in years past and,

00:19:56   and we all clap, but they, they announce, you know, a new API and like 5,000 people start screaming

00:20:03   and clapping and the rest of us are sitting there saying, okay, well, I guess that's a big deal.

00:20:08   Yeah. Like, uh, I think probably the best example of that, that I can remember would be when,

00:20:18   when they announced Swift.

00:20:20   Yeah.

00:20:22   I got it, because I'm a little bit programmer-y enough.

00:20:25   I mean, I have a computer science degree.

00:20:26   I mean, so I know exactly what they meant.

00:20:30   And I know firsthand how polarizing Objective-C is.

00:20:37   Like, it's a weird-- the thing about Objective-C

00:20:41   that's undeniable-- and I think even a non-programmer could

00:20:45   just look at the source code, and you

00:20:46   You see all these square brackets around everything,

00:20:49   and it doesn't look like other programming languages.

00:20:53   Whereas Swift looks a lot like JavaScript and other just sort

00:20:58   of generic programming languages.

00:21:00   It's sort of closer to the ideal of pseudocode.

00:21:05   And man, when they announced Swift,

00:21:07   that we've got an all new programming language that we've

00:21:10   invented, and it's just optimized for Apple stuff,

00:21:14   and it's our language for the future, that room erupted

00:21:18   and the press area was like, what does this mean?

00:21:20   (laughing)

00:21:22   Right?

00:21:23   - Yeah, it's true, absolutely true.

00:21:25   But WDC in a lot of ways is completely different

00:21:29   than the other events that we go to.

00:21:31   - Yeah, totally.

00:21:33   And then the fact that they brought Chris Latner out

00:21:36   to do the introduction was again,

00:21:40   that Chris Latner has since, he left actually

00:21:43   in the last year and now works at Tesla.

00:21:45   But he's been in charge of Apple's programming language

00:21:49   stuff for a long time.

00:21:50   He invented LLVM and CLang.

00:21:53   And he's the original guy who invented Swift before it

00:21:56   became a group project.

00:21:59   He is a rock star in Apple developer circles.

00:22:06   And his reaction to seeing him on stage in the keynote,

00:22:09   not just in the afternoon State of the Tech Union keynote,

00:22:12   with the real keynote, like people were acting like,

00:22:15   you know, Dave Grohl and Foo Fighters came on stage.

00:22:19   They really were though, right?

00:22:20   - They were, yeah, it's absolutely true.

00:22:22   - And the press area is everybody, most of the people,

00:22:25   a lot of the people were like Googling Chris Latner,

00:22:28   you know, and they're like, who the hell is this

00:22:31   and why is he getting this rousing ovation

00:22:33   where he has to wait for everybody to calm down

00:22:36   before he starts talking.

00:22:38   - Yeah.

00:22:38   - So what do you--

00:22:40   - But that's who it's for.

00:22:42   That's who this conference is for.

00:22:44   - Well, it's an interesting balance

00:22:47   'cause it is for the mass market.

00:22:48   Like Apple definitely expects front page news

00:22:51   on newspapers. - Of course, yeah.

00:22:53   - So it is this interesting mix

00:22:55   and they definitely can save a lot of the more technical

00:22:58   stuff for the afternoon keynote.

00:22:59   I mean, I've often said this,

00:23:02   they don't call it a keynote,

00:23:03   they call it the State of the Union,

00:23:05   but the afternoon State of the Union thing

00:23:07   really is the technical keynote.

00:23:10   - Yep.

00:23:12   And so it's interesting when something truly technical,

00:23:14   like a new programming language, is

00:23:15   deemed so important that it makes the morning keynote.

00:23:19   Do you go to that?

00:23:21   I wish that I did.

00:23:24   And I try to if I can.

00:23:26   But the last few years, I've had the private briefings,

00:23:32   post-keynote briefings, about what's

00:23:34   in a morning keynote in the afternoon.

00:23:36   And they tend to run behind.

00:23:38   And so it's generally impossible for me to make that.

00:23:43   So I watch it afterwards on video.

00:23:45   - Yeah, me too.

00:23:46   Me too.

00:23:48   I think I've been in the, I don't know,

00:23:51   the past five or six years, I may have been to one.

00:23:54   - It is interesting.

00:23:57   It's interesting missing it,

00:23:58   because I write about Apple stuff

00:24:01   at a technical enough level, and you do too,

00:24:03   where some of the stuff in that session,

00:24:07   we would write about on our websites,

00:24:11   but I don't hear about it, and I'm in a briefing,

00:24:14   and then all of a sudden it's like five o'clock,

00:24:15   and I'm like, you know, maybe like meeting people for beer

00:24:19   or something like that, and then they'll bring up

00:24:21   something like that, and I'm like,

00:24:22   "What, when was that announced?"

00:24:23   And they're like, "In the afternoon."

00:24:23   (laughing)

00:24:24   And it's like, "Holy shit!"

00:24:25   (laughing)

00:24:27   - Sorry.

00:24:30   Yeah.

00:24:32   Yeah, it always happens, though, but, you know,

00:24:36   those two things, those two keynotes,

00:24:40   that pretty much lays out everything.

00:24:43   - I expect the theme, I do think I would say this,

00:24:48   I think Apple has kept a very tight lid

00:24:50   on whatever it is they're announcing.

00:24:52   I think A, they have a lot to announce.

00:24:54   I think it's gonna be a very busy keynote

00:24:57   with a lot of announcements.

00:24:58   I just have that sense.

00:25:01   And I think a lot of other people do too.

00:25:04   but for the most part, nothing has leaked yet.

00:25:07   - No. - I mean, what,

00:25:07   has anything leaked?

00:25:09   - I don't think so.

00:25:10   Okay, so run through it then.

00:25:14   Apple Watch?

00:25:16   - Nothing has leaked, right?

00:25:18   And I can't help but think that they are going to have

00:25:21   a WatchOS 4 announcement.

00:25:24   This is what I think about that.

00:25:26   I think that WatchOS 3 was so major in terms of,

00:25:31   OK, they really focused on the two things people really

00:25:35   like about Apple Watch are the fitness tracking

00:25:38   and notifications.

00:25:40   And they coalesced the whole OS, even

00:25:44   how you use the hardware buttons and the roller.

00:25:48   And I don't think that there is a way for watchOS 4

00:25:52   to be as big a change as watchOS 3 was,

00:25:55   because they've coalesced on the heart of what

00:26:01   Apple Watch is really good for.

00:26:02   - Did you see the, I wrote a piece a little while ago

00:26:08   about using my Apple Watch without an iPhone.

00:26:12   And what I found, I did it on,

00:26:17   well, I didn't do it on purpose at first,

00:26:19   but I got one of the red iPhones

00:26:21   and I didn't sync my watch with it.

00:26:24   And I started missing phone calls, text messages,

00:26:30   text messages, emails, because my phone was on silent

00:26:35   because I had my watch on and it was linked to my watch

00:26:38   so I would get everything coming in

00:26:40   and my watch would vibrate and I would pick up the phone

00:26:43   and answer it and do whatever.

00:26:45   All of a sudden I was missing everything.

00:26:48   And people would say, I tried calling you

00:26:52   on a look and sure enough there's a list of phone calls

00:26:55   and text messages.

00:26:56   - It's become subconscious for you

00:27:00   that your notifications are gonna be on your wrist,

00:27:02   is what you're saying. - Yeah, yeah.

00:27:04   So I didn't have to, I never have to pick up

00:27:07   my phone anymore because I have everything I need

00:27:11   on my watch.

00:27:13   So when I didn't pair the two of them,

00:27:17   it was devastating for me, you know?

00:27:19   So I actually had to go back and do it.

00:27:22   - Yeah, I think that's a great example.

00:27:25   I think that there's, it's, I think where they're going,

00:27:28   where they will go with watchOS 4 is just taking those two areas, fitness and the notifications

00:27:35   and just the subtle niceties that things that you can do with Apple Watch like having your

00:27:40   Mac unlock just by being near it, which I've become addicted to.

00:27:44   Me too.

00:27:45   I swear to God, in terms of drawing a blank on why isn't this working, the other day,

00:27:51   I wasn't wearing my Apple Watch, I was wearing an analog watch, a mechanical watch.

00:27:56   And I go to my MacBook and I didn't feel that tap on my wrist and it's asking me

00:28:00   for my password and I'm like, "Oh, what the fuck?

00:28:02   Is handoff broken?

00:28:04   Is continuity broken?

00:28:05   What?"

00:28:06   And then I was like, "Oh, I was like, duh.

00:28:08   Of course I can't log in."

00:28:10   Yeah, well, I'm so used to that now.

00:28:13   I just walk up and hit a button and, you know, it wakes up, logs me in, and I'm done.

00:28:18   So yeah, that was another thing.

00:28:21   When I didn't pair the two, I'd go in and tap my keyboard and I'd sit there looking

00:28:26   with the screen like--

00:28:28   - It does remind me, it's one of my favorite features

00:28:30   of Apple Watch, 'cause it does remind me,

00:28:32   I mean, I've had a password on my MacBook

00:28:34   for a long time now, really ever since I started traveling

00:28:39   by airplane semi-frequently.

00:28:41   But when I first got like a PowerBook,

00:28:45   I guess it was my first, what I owned was an iBook

00:28:47   back in the day, I didn't even, you know,

00:28:49   I didn't put a password on it because it was too annoying

00:28:52   compared to just lifting the screen and it being logged in.

00:28:55   I don't even know if you could back then.

00:28:57   Could you?

00:28:58   Could you put a, like back in the Mac OS 9 days,

00:29:00   could you put a password on a machine?

00:29:03   - Remember we had, they had voice login.

00:29:06   - Yeah, but it was like, but Mac OS 9 was so not secure

00:29:11   by default that if you just force rebooted the machine,

00:29:13   it would just start up and you'd.

00:29:15   (laughing)

00:29:16   I mean, you know, I mean, you laugh, but you know,

00:29:18   you didn't think anything of it in a day.

00:29:20   There were no user accounts, you know what I mean?

00:29:22   It was like you just turned the thing on

00:29:23   and there you were.

00:29:25   which was super convenient.

00:29:27   And eventually, with good security

00:29:30   and having your disk encrypted, and so you

00:29:32   feel safe that if somebody stole my MacBook in the airport,

00:29:37   they can't get my data.

00:29:39   They have a nice MacBook they can sell,

00:29:42   but they can't get to my data.

00:29:45   So it's worth it for that.

00:29:46   But just having your Apple Watch unlock it automatically just

00:29:49   by touching a button, it takes you back to those days

00:29:52   where you're just in.

00:29:54   - And it's very secure.

00:29:57   - Yeah.

00:29:58   So I think that the Apple Watch announcements,

00:30:00   who knows, I mean, we don't know what they are,

00:30:01   but I just think they'll be about adding more nice things

00:30:05   that happen just by being in proximity to something.

00:30:08   - What about Apple Watch hardware?

00:30:11   - I don't think that they'll announce it at WWDC.

00:30:14   I think that that's considered a September thing.

00:30:16   That's what I think.

00:30:18   - Okay.

00:30:19   - It would be a very big surprise if they did, though.

00:30:21   - Yeah.

00:30:22   But I just don't think so.

00:30:24   And I do think, I think that, you know,

00:30:26   and we'll get to that in a moment,

00:30:27   but I think that that also limits

00:30:30   some of the fitness announcements they can make,

00:30:33   'cause I think there's only so much they can do in the OS,

00:30:35   whereas a lot of the improvements I think they want to make

00:30:37   require new hardware.

00:30:39   Which, like for example, the story that's,

00:30:44   or CNBC has been tracking it,

00:30:46   where they've reported that Apple is working on glucose

00:30:51   working on glucose monitoring,

00:30:53   non-invasive, continuous glucose monitoring.

00:30:56   And they even said that Tim Cook personally

00:30:58   is wearing an Apple Watch prototype

00:31:01   around Apple's campus that does it.

00:31:04   - Yes.

00:31:05   - This is such a huge deal.

00:31:09   I don't personally have anybody in my immediate family

00:31:12   who has diabetes, but I have friends

00:31:15   who have kids with diabetes, a couple of friends

00:31:18   who have kids with juvenile diabetes.

00:31:21   And all of them are super healthy

00:31:24   and they're all getting great medical care,

00:31:25   but it is a 24 hour a day nonstop source

00:31:29   of minor stress on the parents and the kid.

00:31:32   I mean, because the only way to monitor your blood

00:31:35   is through the pricks, and that sucks.

00:31:37   It sucks even if you're an adult, but guess what?

00:31:39   Like if you have a seven year old

00:31:40   and they're sick and you get the diagnosis,

00:31:44   it's always good news when you figure out what is wrong,

00:31:46   right, and you say, we know exactly what's wrong,

00:31:48   you know, we have bad news, your kid's diabetic,

00:31:50   but the good news is, you know, it's totally treatable.

00:31:53   But you tell a seven-year-old that you're gonna have to

00:31:56   prick their skin and get a blood sample every day

00:31:59   for the rest of their life, I mean, it just doesn't fly.

00:32:02   So to have it in a non-invasive, continuous method

00:32:08   through the watch, it would be so great for the kids,

00:32:11   so great for adults who have diabetes.

00:32:13   And then the thing that occurs to me personally,

00:32:16   because my wife and I, our son has a really severe

00:32:19   anaphylactic dairy allergy.

00:32:21   Like if he has even just a little bit of dairy,

00:32:24   he gets violently ill and has passed out even

00:32:28   in like a hospital setting with like an eighth

00:32:30   of a teaspoon of milk.

00:32:31   And we've been really lucky over the years

00:32:33   and he's a real cautious kid and he just does,

00:32:36   he just by default, if he doesn't know what's in something,

00:32:39   he just doesn't eat it.

00:32:41   He'll go hungry rather than take a flyer

00:32:43   on whether there's dairy in food.

00:32:45   But especially for my wife, because she's a bigger

00:32:49   worrier than me every single day, especially when he was a younger kid.

00:32:53   He's 13 now, but when he was like first grade, second grade, it's every day.

00:32:57   I mean, and his school is great.

00:32:58   And allergies are so common now that school nurses are all

00:33:02   well aware of which kids have which allergies.

00:33:05   But in the back of my wife's mind, she's constantly stressed.

00:33:10   What if he accidentally gets dairy?

00:33:12   Now, dairy's different.

00:33:13   But imagine if he had diabetes instead.

00:33:15   And not only is he-- and he could wear an Apple Watch.

00:33:19   If my wife could get that notification too that, hey,

00:33:24   his glucose is high or low, not only could she help him,

00:33:30   but just on the normal days when there's no problem,

00:33:33   the fact that she knows his glucose is fine

00:33:35   because she doesn't have that alert would be--

00:33:37   it's life changing.

00:33:39   Right.

00:33:39   I mean, that's a sense of calm.

00:33:44   I know everything is okay.

00:33:48   - I don't know, the thing is about the CNBC report,

00:33:52   I am not surprised at all that Apple's working on this.

00:33:55   It seems like a perfect Apple problem to solve,

00:34:00   but there's no indication of whether this is planned

00:34:03   for this year's new Apple watches or not.

00:34:06   It could be the sort of thing

00:34:08   that might be two, three years out,

00:34:10   and it could be the sort of thing

00:34:11   that even if they have it working pretty well,

00:34:14   for all I know, it might be like two or three years

00:34:17   of regulatory hurdles before they can ship it.

00:34:20   - Right, and that's something

00:34:21   that you were talking about earlier,

00:34:22   where the software could be ready,

00:34:25   but if the hardware is not--

00:34:26   - Right, and the regulatory stuff,

00:34:28   I mean, God, I can't even imagine what a nightmare that is.

00:34:32   And for good reason, it should be regulated,

00:34:33   but it's, you know, I'm sure that it's,

00:34:36   it moves, those type of things move at a much slower pace

00:34:40   than the tech world does.

00:34:42   - All right, so let me upset some people here

00:34:47   and play devil's advocate

00:34:52   and look at this in a cynical way.

00:34:55   Do you think Apple is doing this

00:34:59   as a way to sell more devices

00:35:01   or because they care about health?

00:35:04   - I think both.

00:35:05   I do think both.

00:35:07   I think that, of course, they're in the business

00:35:10   of selling devices, and of course,

00:35:11   if they can turn this into a device,

00:35:14   that health insurance would subsidize the purchase of,

00:35:19   and I think it would.

00:35:20   I think health insurance policies would buy kids

00:35:24   Apple Watches, or at least subsidize a big chunk

00:35:27   the price because it's a $299 watch or 250,

00:35:32   or maybe if it takes two or three years,

00:35:35   by that time they'll have one for 199 or something.

00:35:38   It could greatly, greatly, I mean, number one,

00:35:43   it could absolve them of the cost that the insurance

00:35:45   is already covering for the invasive blood tests.

00:35:49   - Right, right.

00:35:49   - And it's gonna keep these kids healthier, right?

00:35:53   it's gonna keep them from going to the doctor

00:35:57   by having their blood sugar drop or something like that.

00:36:01   And so, yeah, and then once, if insurance covers the price,

00:36:06   then Apple's gonna sell out,

00:36:08   boatload more of these watches.

00:36:10   I mean, diabetes is obviously a fairly common disease.

00:36:14   So I don't know that it's entirely a coincidence

00:36:17   that they're attacking a disease

00:36:19   where there's a fairly large market of patients

00:36:21   as opposed to some more obscure disease

00:36:24   that maybe the watch could also do.

00:36:25   But I feel like the altruism of it

00:36:29   and the business aspect of it go hand in hand.

00:36:32   - Yeah.

00:36:33   - And you know what they won't do,

00:36:35   here's just one last point on this.

00:36:36   What they won't do is, remember that scumbag guy,

00:36:41   I don't even remember his name,

00:36:42   I don't even want to say his name,

00:36:43   but the guy who bought the rights to some prescription drug

00:36:46   that was like unique and then the first thing he did

00:36:48   was raise the price by 10X?

00:36:51   - Yeah.

00:36:51   - So like what Apple won't do is, no way would they do,

00:36:55   is make a special edition glucose monitoring Apple Watch

00:36:58   that costs $1,000.

00:37:01   - Correct, yeah, I agree.

00:37:02   - It would be a thing that everybody gets

00:37:04   in their Apple Watch.

00:37:05   That's where they, you know, they won't price gouge

00:37:08   the people who need the glucose monitoring one.

00:37:11   - I truly believe that Apple cares about health.

00:37:19   And I think that they're researching this

00:37:23   as a way to really help people.

00:37:28   The same with the fitness

00:37:31   and look at how they went through

00:37:34   with wheelchairs and they worked with those people

00:37:42   to say, "How can we make this better for you?

00:37:44   "Obviously we won't tell you to stand anymore."

00:37:48   cause that's rude.

00:37:50   You know, but they did a lot of things

00:37:51   where they can track for swimmers

00:37:54   and for all of these things.

00:37:56   I truly believe that they care about that.

00:37:58   - I do too.

00:37:59   - And as a side effect, they do sell more devices.

00:38:04   And that's obviously very important to them.

00:38:07   That is their business.

00:38:08   But I think that they're starting to pull

00:38:12   way out in front of other companies

00:38:17   as far as health tracking goes.

00:38:19   And I include glucose monitoring

00:38:22   and things like that in there.

00:38:23   - Do you remember the shareholders meeting

00:38:25   a couple of years ago where I think that what happened

00:38:30   was that a shareholder stood up

00:38:33   and I think gave Tim Cook grief

00:38:36   over Apple's environmental spending.

00:38:39   I think it was on him, but it doesn't really matter.

00:38:41   But it was something like that.

00:38:43   Let's say like, hey, what's the return on investment

00:38:46   this for shareholders with this, you know, I don't care about this, you know,

00:38:50   greenhouse gases, you know, and Tim Cook got angry and said, God,

00:38:55   I wish there was footage of it. All we have is like people replaying it.

00:38:58   But he said, I don't give a damn about your bloody ROI on some,

00:39:01   there are some issues where we don't give a damn about your bloody ROI.

00:39:05   And you know that that word bloody was almost the F word. Yep. Yep.

00:39:10   Because Tim Cook isn't British. I don't think he certainly doesn't sound British.

00:39:16   You know, and I think that on this accessibility stuff

00:39:21   and some of this stuff, it's absolutely not

00:39:24   measured as an ROI.

00:39:25   I don't think that they sell--

00:39:27   I don't think making the Apple Watch a great fitness tracker

00:39:30   for people in wheelchairs--

00:39:32   yes, there are people in wheelchairs

00:39:34   who've since bought an Apple Watch who wouldn't have bought

00:39:37   one otherwise because they know that it's

00:39:40   going to work for their needs, which are obviously

00:39:43   very, very different than somebody who's walking.

00:39:48   But I don't think that anybody at Apple

00:39:49   ever performed the spreadsheet calculation

00:39:53   of how many more we can sell versus how much

00:39:55   it's going to cost us to develop it.

00:39:57   I think that the idea of, hey, let's make this thing work

00:39:59   for wheelchair people, people in wheelchairs,

00:40:03   and I think everybody was like, oh, yeah, definitely.

00:40:06   Let's do that.

00:40:06   I'll bet there wasn't one person who said,

00:40:09   well, let's run a cost analysis first.

00:40:12   Agreed.

00:40:13   No way.

00:40:13   And I really do think that that's one of the things

00:40:17   that makes Apple a different company.

00:40:18   I mean, obviously some of these initiatives are so big

00:40:21   on the environmental front that I think they have

00:40:23   to be measured financially,

00:40:25   building out these giant solar farms.

00:40:28   I'm sure that they know exactly what the cost is,

00:40:33   but I still don't think that they do them,

00:40:35   they certainly don't do them to save money.

00:40:37   Apple's not saving money by being carbon neutral.

00:40:41   They truly, they see it as a long-term investment

00:40:45   in the company by making the world a better place.

00:40:47   - Yeah, and then there is some energy savings

00:40:53   because they all, I think it's long-term,

00:40:57   that they are neutral.

00:40:59   - Right, Apple spends more money on energy, though,

00:41:01   because they're carbon neutral than they would

00:41:03   if they said we don't give a shit if we're carbon neutral.

00:41:05   (laughing)

00:41:07   They really do, they spend more money,

00:41:08   and there's really no direct return on that investment

00:41:11   There's no immediate return on it.

00:41:13   It's a long-term, you know,

00:41:17   if the world is a better place

00:41:18   and we can set an example that others follow

00:41:21   and we can help get these greenhouse gases down,

00:41:24   Apple will be in a better place in 50 years.

00:41:26   When everybody who's here right now is retired or dead,

00:41:30   Apple's gonna be in a better place because of this,

00:41:33   because the world's in a better place.

00:41:34   I mean, I don't wanna get all--

00:41:36   - You don't catch up.

00:41:36   - Mamsy-pamsy here, but.

00:41:38   (laughing)

00:41:39   I do, I think, but I think you're right.

00:41:41   And I think the fitness, I'm telling you right now,

00:41:43   was it last year where they announced

00:41:45   the wheelchair support at WWDC?

00:41:48   I think it was last year. - I believe so.

00:41:49   - I think it was last year with Watch OS 3.

00:41:51   I mean, I teared up in the movie.

00:41:53   I mean, it's, it's, 'cause, and I felt a little guilty

00:41:56   because I have to admit that before Apple showed it to me

00:41:59   in their intro video, it never even occurred to me

00:42:03   that the default configuration of Apple Watch,

00:42:06   where it assumes that you are walking

00:42:10   and running and jogging isn't gonna work

00:42:12   for someone in a wheelchair.

00:42:13   Just didn't occur to me.

00:42:14   And I felt guilty, but the way that Apple presented it,

00:42:18   I was like, oh God, I teared up.

00:42:19   I was, I mean, as I get older, I'm getting softer.

00:42:23   (laughing)

00:42:25   - We all are, John.

00:42:29   - Speaking of wheelchairs, friend of the show,

00:42:32   David_Smith, he's a developer with all the plus plus apps.

00:42:37   He's got a pedometer plus plus app

00:42:39   that hooks into HealthKit and gives you

00:42:43   like a pedometer-specific interface.

00:42:46   It's a great app.

00:42:47   If you're interested in counting your steps and stuff

00:42:49   like that, you should really look into it.

00:42:50   It's a terrific app.

00:42:52   Did you see there's a new feature in iOS

00:42:54   that they've added a couple--

00:42:55   iOS 10 a couple months ago where an app can set a custom

00:42:59   icon for the app?

00:43:02   So for--

00:43:03   Oh, no.

00:43:03   They apparently added it for sports apps.

00:43:06   So for example, the MLB app can now, it asks you now,

00:43:11   hey, would you like to change the icon for the app

00:43:14   to the icon of your favorite team?

00:43:15   So for me--

00:43:17   - Oh, you can put the Red Sox in there.

00:43:18   - Yeah, I can put the Red Sox.

00:43:20   (laughing)

00:43:22   Tampa Bay Devil race, anybody I love.

00:43:25   (laughing)

00:43:26   I actually tried it, it's funny, I tried it.

00:43:29   I heard about the feature, and I heard that it was,

00:43:31   all apps can do it, but it was, I heard somewhere,

00:43:35   I think it was, I don't think it was through public channels, but I heard somewhere that

00:43:39   Eddie Q sort of spearheaded it because of his interest in sports and he knows some of

00:43:43   the guys at the, you know, the sports apps. Um, and so I tried it and I hated it because

00:43:50   I even though I love the Yankees and the Yankees are most of what I care about the MLB app,

00:43:53   it totally breaks years of my habit of looking at the MLB logo, the league's logo and tapping

00:44:01   So I actually turned that off. But anyway, David_Smith used that feature and has an option in his pedometer++ app to change the icon from somebody walking to somebody in a wheelchair.

00:44:15   Ah, that's nice.

00:44:17   You know what, it's like the same way that honestly,

00:44:20   it's like the way that people at Apple

00:44:22   think of things like that.

00:44:24   The Apple developer community is full of,

00:44:28   when you have somebody who's a developer

00:44:30   but who has a thoughtful sort of humanist streak to them

00:44:33   like David Smith, that's why he's an iOS developer, right?

00:44:37   It just is the sort of thing that occurs to, you know,

00:44:40   the right kind of people.

00:44:43   I don't know, I saw that in his change notes

00:44:45   I was like, oh man, that's a great feature.

00:44:47   - What did you think of Derek Cheater Day?

00:44:51   - I can't really talk about it, Jim.

00:44:57   (laughing)

00:44:59   I have a better story though than Derek Cheater Day.

00:45:03   Derek Cheater Day was Mother's Day

00:45:05   and I was thinking about going and taking my son,

00:45:08   but Amy didn't wanna go and it's Mother's Day

00:45:11   and Derek Cheater picked Mother's Day.

00:45:13   It wasn't, you know, he said,

00:45:14   "When would you like to have your day?"

00:45:15   And he said, "I'd love my mom so much,

00:45:18   "it would be meaningful to me to have it on Mother's Day."

00:45:21   But it put me in a position of,

00:45:25   do we blow off Mother's Day and go see a Yankees game?

00:45:29   - That wouldn't be a good idea.

00:45:30   - Well, I have to say, in all honesty, you know her,

00:45:33   and so you might be surprised, but she was honest to God.

00:45:36   She was like, "Go, seriously, we'll do something

00:45:39   "on Saturday or whatever, but if you wanna go, go."

00:45:42   and she really, you know, like one thing

00:45:45   I don't have to worry about with her

00:45:46   is she tells me what she's thinking.

00:45:48   (laughing)

00:45:50   So like I don't have to worry about the thing

00:45:52   where she might say, oh yeah, you should go,

00:45:54   and then we go, and then I find out it was a test,

00:45:56   and I failed the test.

00:45:57   No, if she doesn't want me to go,

00:45:59   she would say, you an idiot?

00:46:01   Why would you go on Mother's Day?

00:46:02   But she told us to go.

00:46:04   But we didn't, and instead I watched it on TV.

00:46:06   And this is the best thing, friend of the show,

00:46:09   Matthew Panzareno was in New York at the time.

00:46:13   They were having TechCrunch Disrupt.

00:46:15   And Monday morning, the first day of the conference,

00:46:19   he had an interview with Derek Jeter

00:46:22   and his co-founder of the website, The Players Tribune.

00:46:25   And Matthew invited me up to come see it

00:46:30   and have backstage passes.

00:46:32   And I got one for Jonas as well, so we played hooky.

00:46:35   He missed school, unfortunately,

00:46:37   and we took the train up to New York,

00:46:39   saw Matthew's excellent interview with Derek Jeter and then Jonas and I met him backstage.

00:46:44   Tom Bilyeu Oh, good for you.

00:46:45   Jim Collison It was great. He was very nice.

00:46:47   Tom Bilyeu Wow.

00:46:47   Jim Collison Very, very nice man. Very handsome. God, is he handsome. Jesus.

00:46:51   Tom Bilyeu He's not as handsome as I am. I mean, let's be honest.

00:46:57   Jim Collison I don't know, Jim. I don't know that I'm around you.

00:46:59   Tom Bilyeu Well, yeah, that's what you tell people.

00:47:01   Jim Collison His hands are softer than yours as well, I have to say.

00:47:05   [laughter]

00:47:07   I don't even know what to say about that.

00:47:10   Derek Jeter has very soft hands. It's like calf skin.

00:47:13   I don't know what to say.

00:47:14   Yeah.

00:47:14   Rinty and leather.

00:47:16   Yeah.

00:47:16   Jeterian leather.

00:47:18   I must say that I did watch that, because obviously, he's a very important man in the sport,

00:47:29   And I was touched, I've got to say. Looking at the people in the crowd, they were crying.

00:47:38   They were proud. They were sad. They understood what he meant for the team.

00:47:48   Yeah, and he just had that sort of magical career where he just always seemed to go right for him

00:47:54   up until that Bloop single in the world's 2001 World Series that went over his head.

00:48:02   Even then, it's like even when they lost the World Series, they had to lose it in the

00:48:05   most spectacular fashion possible. A broken bat Bloop single over the shortstop, right

00:48:11   after they had him come in to play a close grandpa. It was great, and Yankee fans certainly

00:48:18   appreciate that sort of thing.

00:48:20   All right, back to WWDC.

00:48:24   I don't think we'll see hardware on Apple Watch.

00:48:26   There's rampant rumors, though, that we might see new iPad hardware.

00:48:30   What do you think about that?

00:48:33   That wouldn't surprise me at all.

00:48:36   Because I would say primarily it's just been so long.

00:48:42   The 12.9-inch, the big iPad Pro, came out in September of 2015, so it's over a year

00:48:49   and a half old. And the regular sized iPad Pro came out last March, April, around then. So it's

00:48:58   a little over a year. It's just crying for an update. And if it doesn't come out at WWDC,

00:49:06   that pushes it to the fall. And I just don't think that they would want to do that. I think if they

00:49:12   can announce it at WWDC, they will. I think updates to the iPad make perfect sense.

00:49:19   for the hardware that will be at the event.

00:49:24   - And the rumor, but nothing is really leaked.

00:49:30   I mean, rumors have leaked, but there's no,

00:49:32   here's a picture of what the new iPad looks like.

00:49:34   - Yeah.

00:49:35   - But the rumors are that it's sort of

00:49:38   the same footprint device, but with a screen

00:49:41   that's bigger that goes edge to edge,

00:49:44   that eliminates the chin and forehead, as I call them.

00:49:48   Some of the rumors suggest that only the 10 point something

00:49:52   inch one is going to ship.

00:49:53   I find that hard to believe, unless unbeknownst to all

00:49:57   of us, the 12.9 inch iPad is sort of a flop.

00:50:01   I mean, if they don't have an update to the one that hasn't

00:50:03   come out since September 2015, it

00:50:07   would say to me that maybe they're

00:50:09   done with that size iPad.

00:50:12   I mean, I can't imagine why they would update the smaller one

00:50:15   before they do the other one.

00:50:16   I think they should update them together.

00:50:17   And it makes total sense to me,

00:50:19   given how much more expensive iPad Pros are

00:50:22   than regular, just plain iPads,

00:50:25   that they would want them to look different too.

00:50:27   And this reduction in bezel would be a way to do that,

00:50:30   where you look like you've got a more Pro iPad

00:50:33   because it's got this cooler edge-to-edge screen.

00:50:36   - That is my favorite one.

00:50:37   - To be honest. - The big one?

00:50:40   - The Pro.

00:50:43   - Yeah, the big Pro? - No, the smaller Pro.

00:50:45   - Yeah, that's my favorite too.

00:50:46   Smaller Pro is my favorite. And I'll be honest with you, a lot of it is because of that True Tone

00:50:54   technology with the screen. I can see that thing outside in the sun.

00:50:58   Pete: Yeah.

00:50:59   Pete: And I'm still, I still walk around with my phone turning so that it's in the shade,

00:51:03   you know, so that I can see it properly. I wish they'd bring True Tone to everything.

00:51:08   I want my car in my eyeballs.

00:51:10   Pete; I do too. I still remember when Schiller introduced it and he said,

00:51:15   once you get used to it, you can't go back.

00:51:17   And that made me think it was coming on the iPhone too,

00:51:19   last year, and it didn't. - Me too, me too.

00:51:21   - But it's probably my biggest disappointment,

00:51:25   single biggest disappointment about the iPhone 7

00:51:28   is that it doesn't have True Tone

00:51:30   because it's such a nice effect.

00:51:31   - Agreed.

00:51:32   I don't know how they do it,

00:51:35   but you can see the screen changing

00:51:39   as you're moving into different areas.

00:51:41   - And it just, it really looks so much different

00:51:44   and better in incandescent light.

00:51:46   I don't like, I personally hate that feature, personally.

00:51:50   I'm not saying I'm disappointed that it's a feature in EOS,

00:51:53   but I hate that feature where it changes

00:51:56   the color of the screen at night

00:51:57   for the supposed help getting to sleep.

00:52:01   What's that one called?

00:52:04   I hate it, so I don't know the name of it.

00:52:06   Night Shift.

00:52:07   - Well, Night Shift, yeah.

00:52:08   - Yeah, I hate Night Shift.

00:52:10   And when I see somebody using a phone with Night Shift,

00:52:13   Instantly, I'm appalled.

00:52:14   It looks to me like it's been sitting in like a

00:52:18   hole in the wall bar for 30 years

00:52:23   and it's just covered with nicotine stains.

00:52:26   - But supposedly that works for--

00:52:30   - Well, to each his own and people,

00:52:32   some people swear by it,

00:52:33   but for people who haven't seen the iPad Pro with True Tone,

00:52:37   it sounds like it's the same thing,

00:52:39   where it shifts the colors based on the ambient colors

00:52:43   of the light in the environment you are.

00:52:45   But it's nothing like night shift.

00:52:46   Because to me, night shift, you know--

00:52:49   when you look at night shift, it doesn't

00:52:50   make the screen look right.

00:52:52   It makes the screen look different.

00:52:53   And I personally find it distasteful.

00:52:56   People who like it, they find it easier on their eyes at night.

00:52:59   They know that it's on, though.

00:53:01   Whereas true tone, once you get used to it,

00:53:03   you don't know that it's there.

00:53:05   It just makes the screen look, quote unquote,

00:53:07   "right" in all lighting environments.

00:53:10   Yeah, and you can take the iPad with True Tone outside, and if you watch carefully,

00:53:18   I find it better coming from outside to inside, if you watch carefully on the screen, you

00:53:23   can see not the screen dim or not the screen get brighter, but actually change the way

00:53:29   that it's displaying things to you.

00:53:31   So if you take an older iPad outside and set it in the sun and try and do something, you

00:53:39   really see the screen. Right. But the one with True Tone, you can see it just as if

00:53:43   you were inside. Well, and then the other thing too is when I compare it, like Amy uses

00:53:48   a 9.7 inch iPad Pro a lot. It's like her favorite computing device. And she uses it at night

00:53:57   and then I see her screen and then I look at my iPhone screen and my iPhone screen suddenly

00:54:01   looks like, you know, like the colors look rough.

00:54:05   Yeah.

00:54:07   Yeah, I definitely want that.

00:54:10   So I think iPad hardware at WWDC,

00:54:13   I'm not going to call it a sure thing because I don't feel like anything's

00:54:16   a sure thing with as much secrecy as they've maintained around their stuff.

00:54:20   But it certainly is overdue.

00:54:23   And I would really like to see both two sizes of iPad pros

00:54:27   with these new edge-to-edge screens.

00:54:29   I'd like to see the regular size and I want to see the big size.

00:54:31   That to me is the one that makes the most sense.

00:54:37   Of course, outside of the software, if we're looking at hardware,

00:54:40   that is the one that makes the most sense to me.

00:54:43   I would like to see a significant improvement to the smart keyboard cover as well.

00:54:49   Yeah.

00:54:50   I don't mind typing on that thing, but I think it could be better.

00:54:54   When I first looked at it, I was like, "I'm going to hate that."

00:54:57   and then when I actually tried using it I was like this is actually a little better than I thought

00:55:01   but I feel like there's so much room for improvement. I don't understand why

00:55:10   the keys on the the cover are so small. I know exactly what you mean. Why not make them bigger

00:55:18   and make them closer to each other? Yeah it just it they have those beautiful keyboards

00:55:27   on the MacBook Pros, if they would take that,

00:55:30   put it on a smart cover, I would love it.

00:55:33   - Even if it made the cover thicker?

00:55:35   - It doesn't matter.

00:55:36   - All right.

00:55:37   - But I don't think that it would make the cover thicker.

00:55:40   I mean, the keys are pretty high as it is.

00:55:43   - Here's an out there idea that would make me

00:55:47   more likely to do more on an iPad as work

00:55:51   would be if they added a track pad

00:55:54   to the smart keyboard cover.

00:55:55   - Yeah.

00:55:56   And my idea for them adding a trackpad would not be, of course, not adding a mouse arrow

00:56:04   on screen, an arrow pointer that you could tap all around the screen and make it like

00:56:10   a Mac.

00:56:11   No, because that's the whole difference.

00:56:13   You know, the Mac is an arrow mouse pointer based graphical user interface.

00:56:18   The iPad is a direct touch interface.

00:56:21   for text editing in the exact same way

00:56:24   that iOS already supports force touch on the iPhone

00:56:28   for moving the cursor around like a mouse, like a trackpad.

00:56:32   Yeah.

00:56:33   And somebody on Twitter today-- I forget who, I'm sorry--

00:56:36   but somebody pointed out that the force touch

00:56:39   on the keyboard on iPhone to move the insertion point around

00:56:44   just like a trackpad on Mac is their single favorite force

00:56:49   touch feature on the iPhone.

00:56:51   And I completely agree.

00:56:52   And every time I mention it, it's

00:56:54   one of those features that's not obvious,

00:56:56   because you can't look to assume it's there.

00:56:58   I guarantee you there are people listening

00:57:00   to the show right now who are like,

00:57:01   what the hell is he talking about?

00:57:02   And then they're going to take out their iPhone.

00:57:05   So go to a note or an email where you're writing an email.

00:57:08   Bring up the keyboard.

00:57:09   And then force touch on the keyboard

00:57:11   and drag your finger around.

00:57:12   And you'll see the little insertion point on screen

00:57:15   move around just like a mouse pointer.

00:57:17   I would love to see them add that to the smart keyboard

00:57:21   cover just for text editing.

00:57:23   Everything else, you still tap the screen.

00:57:27   I guess the other thing that maybe the trackpad could

00:57:29   be used for would be scrolling, but not a mouse pointer.

00:57:33   Scrolling, like two finger touch on the trackpad

00:57:36   for scrolling a view so that you don't have to reach your arm

00:57:39   out to scroll.

00:57:41   I think that would be cool too.

00:57:43   Everything but the mouse pointer.

00:57:44   and then just use it for moving the insertion point.

00:57:49   I find that it would make text editing so much faster.

00:57:53   I find it so hard to select text on an iPad.

00:57:56   I really do.

00:57:57   Yeah.

00:57:59   I'm trying to think space-wise how you would do that.

00:58:02   I'm trying to make the keys bigger.

00:58:05   And I'm telling them to add a trackpad.

00:58:08   Well, I think you'd set it up like a MacBook, where

00:58:10   the keys are up top by the base of the iPad,

00:58:13   and underneath the space bar, there's a little trackpad.

00:58:18   - Yeah, you wouldn't need a big trackpad.

00:58:20   - No, just a little one.

00:58:22   I would make me, I think it would make people

00:58:24   who work on iPads so happy.

00:58:27   I mean, there's things that I've taken for granted

00:58:31   on the Mac since I first used a Mac in the '80s,

00:58:35   where you can just put your mouse in a point,

00:58:38   in a paragraph, and triple-click

00:58:40   and get the whole paragraph selected.

00:58:42   - Right. - Right?

00:58:44   Like, to double click on a word with a mouse pointer

00:58:49   is so much faster to me than selecting a word

00:58:53   in with the finger.

00:58:54   Or if you wanna select two words,

00:58:56   like if I've got Jim space Dalrymple,

00:59:00   to just double, I don't even think about it,

00:59:01   I just double click on Jim and then drag over,

00:59:04   you know, hold on the double click,

00:59:05   drag over to Dalrymple, and as soon as I hit the D

00:59:08   and Dalrymple, I've got both words selected exactly,

00:59:12   no surrounding spaces, and they're ready to be

00:59:15   copied or pasted, or I guess if it says

00:59:17   Jim Dalrymple, delete it.

00:59:18   (laughing)

00:59:22   You know what I mean?

00:59:25   - Yeah.

00:59:26   - Do you think that Apple would do that?

00:59:28   Or are they too resistant to the difference

00:59:32   between touch and trackpad?

00:59:35   iOS versus Mac?

00:59:36   I mean, they've been very clear up until now that they don't seem to want the iPad

00:59:47   to look anything like or act anything like a...

00:59:50   I think that if you don't add a mouse pointer on screen, other than when you're moving

00:59:54   the insertion point around, and as soon as you're done moving it, it just, you know,

00:59:59   the blinking cursor lets go where you let go.

01:00:04   I think it could be done.

01:00:05   I think that the iPad could gain a trackpad

01:00:08   and not really become Mac-like in any way.

01:00:11   It would just have some conveniences of trackpad support

01:00:15   in a way that the Mac can't just add touch.

01:00:18   And you know what I mean?

01:00:20   It's easier for the iOS to get-- for the iPad

01:00:22   to get more like a Mac than for the Mac to get more like an iPad

01:00:25   is what I'm trying to say.

01:00:26   Yeah.

01:00:27   Without losing what it is that makes each one good on its own.

01:00:33   I have no idea.

01:00:35   Again, none of this stuff-- not one thing

01:00:37   I'm talking about today is like a rumor that I've heard

01:00:40   from little birdies or anything.

01:00:41   I've heard nothing.

01:00:42   And I don't want to know.

01:00:43   I'm hoping to go into this keynote totally surprised.

01:00:46   So this is just me speculating.

01:00:48   But I see it on Twitter all the time

01:00:50   when I write about these things from Daring Fireball Readers,

01:00:53   that this idea of having trackpad support just

01:00:57   for text editing and maybe scrolling on the iPad

01:01:00   is something an awful lot of people would like to see.

01:01:02   Yeah, no, I agree.

01:01:03   I agree, because what I tend to use the iPad for a lot

01:01:08   is text editing, you know, research, reading,

01:01:12   typing out little notes, stuff like that.

01:01:14   So I would love to see something like that.

01:01:18   - And it does support text,

01:01:20   like making selections with the keyboard,

01:01:22   you know, like where you can use the arrow keys

01:01:25   to get the insertion point right where you want it

01:01:26   and hold down shift to make a selection

01:01:29   and hold down shift and option to select words at a time.

01:01:32   But you know what, most people don't know those shortcuts.

01:01:36   - Yeah.

01:01:37   - Whereas people do know how to select words,

01:01:39   double click on words and triple click on paragraphs

01:01:41   with a mouse pointer.

01:01:42   - I still want the keys bigger.

01:01:50   - What about, all right, what about the iPad mini?

01:01:54   Boy genius report, Jonathan Geller reported last week

01:01:57   that he's heard from a source at Apple

01:01:59   that the iPad mini is going to be discontinued.

01:02:02   But whether that means that we're just haven't,

01:02:05   I think if that's true, if, and I don't know,

01:02:08   I'm just saying if it's true,

01:02:10   I don't think it means that they're going to stop selling

01:02:13   the iPad mini, I think they're going to do

01:02:14   what they've done with the MacBook Air with it

01:02:16   and just keep selling the MacBook mini as it is

01:02:20   until people stop buying it.

01:02:21   - Okay, I do like the iPad mini,

01:02:29   but I use the 9.7 much more.

01:02:33   - I love the iPad Mini, but it's hit me right in the,

01:02:38   as I'm, I've talked about this before,

01:02:41   but I'm at the point now where I need reading glasses

01:02:44   when I have my contacts in.

01:02:46   It's exactly on schedule for a mid-40s person

01:02:50   who's nearsighted, like all of a sudden I need,

01:02:54   the fact that the iPad Mini is the same interface

01:02:56   as the pixel for pixel, the same interface

01:02:59   as the 9.7 inch iPad, just smaller,

01:03:02   makes it, it's hard for me to read at this point.

01:03:05   I love it though.

01:03:06   And when I was younger, and honestly,

01:03:09   the way that pressed by opiate comes on,

01:03:12   for those of you too young to have it yet,

01:03:15   it happens very fast.

01:03:17   I know you're going through the same thing.

01:03:19   - Yeah.

01:03:20   - And it's like one year you see perfectly

01:03:24   at reading distance, just like you

01:03:26   did when you were in your teens and your 20s and your 30s.

01:03:29   And then all of a sudden, one year later,

01:03:31   you can't read this distance, and you have to hold it out.

01:03:33   And then two years later, it's like, I can't read this at all.

01:03:38   That's happened to me in between when the iPad Mini first

01:03:40   appeared and today.

01:03:42   When the iPad Mini first appeared,

01:03:43   I had no trouble reading it.

01:03:47   And I loved it.

01:03:47   I loved it because of the size.

01:03:49   I really, really loved it.

01:03:51   And so personally, I don't really care

01:03:55   'cause I don't think I would ever buy

01:03:56   an iPad mini again personally

01:03:58   because I want the bigger, I want everything bigger.

01:04:03   - Well, I need it bigger. (laughs)

01:04:05   - Yeah, yeah, I'll say, yeah, I'll go as far as you.

01:04:08   I need it bigger.

01:04:09   - When I travel though, I always take my 9.7.

01:04:16   If I'm at home, I'll use the larger one,

01:04:20   But given the choice, it's that 9.7 Pro.

01:04:24   - But if my eyes were better, I would still be using,

01:04:27   I would still prefer the iPad Mini.

01:04:28   So if I were younger or just had better eyesight

01:04:31   at this point, I'd be disappointed by this snooze.

01:04:34   - I wonder what the demographic of people

01:04:36   in general buying iPads.

01:04:38   Wonder if they're older or younger.

01:04:40   - You know what I noticed?

01:04:41   I just bought a, speaking, it's all kind of related.

01:04:45   It all comes full circle, Jim.

01:04:46   So I got a new prescription for glasses from my eye doctor

01:04:51   for when I'm wearing my contacts.

01:04:54   When I wear contact lenses, I need reading glasses.

01:04:57   And when I wear my regular prescription glasses,

01:05:00   I need to take my glasses off to see up close.

01:05:02   Does that make sense to you?

01:05:05   - Yeah, okay.

01:05:06   - So one way or the other, all day, every day,

01:05:09   I'm taking glasses on and off.

01:05:11   I can either have prescription glasses on

01:05:15   to see at distance and take them off to read,

01:05:18   or I can wear my contact lenses

01:05:21   and see everything at distance, fine,

01:05:22   but have to put reading glasses on to read.

01:05:24   Long story short.

01:05:27   So for my reading glasses, while I'm wearing contact lenses,

01:05:30   my eye doctor gave me a new prescription,

01:05:33   which is a little different.

01:05:35   Like, you know, a lot of people buy their reading glasses

01:05:37   just in the drug store.

01:05:38   You can get 'em for like six bucks.

01:05:40   - Right.

01:05:40   - I wanted to get, and I've been using those

01:05:43   just to sort of experiment cheaply.

01:05:45   But I got a new pair of reading glasses

01:05:47   and I wanted to get a decent pair of glasses

01:05:50   since I use them all the time now.

01:05:52   So I got Warby Parker's.

01:05:54   They said they're not sponsoring this episode of the show.

01:05:56   But we have a nice new, just opened a couple months ago,

01:05:58   Warby Parker Boutique here in Philadelphia

01:06:01   that's just a few blocks from where I live.

01:06:03   And so I went to their actual store

01:06:06   to see what it was like and got these glasses there.

01:06:09   And what I noticed was that every single salesperson

01:06:12   in the store walks around with an iPad Mini,

01:06:15   and that's how they do their checkout.

01:06:17   When you say, "Hey, I'd like to get these glasses.

01:06:19   "Here's my prescription," and they save you

01:06:21   for bought glasses from us before,

01:06:23   and they log you out.

01:06:25   What they have in their hand is an iPad Mini.

01:06:28   And I think it's perfect for the task.

01:06:30   And it's a lot less conspicuous

01:06:31   than walking around with a bigger iPad.

01:06:33   It's a little lighter.

01:06:34   And I've seen them too as Square Cache readers

01:06:38   a lot of places, like when people set up

01:06:41   Square Cash is their checkout.

01:06:43   But I wonder if it's because the Mini is small,

01:06:46   or is it just because they bought the cheapest possible iPad

01:06:49   because it's just gonna be a card reader,

01:06:51   and at the time, the Mini was the cheapest possible iPad,

01:06:54   and now that there's the new 9.7-inch iPad

01:06:56   at the lowest price in the lineup,

01:06:59   they'll just buy that instead.

01:07:01   - I don't think so.

01:07:02   I think the Mini works perfect for that type of situation.

01:07:06   - And I kind of, you know,

01:07:10   I feel like the situations where the Mini works,

01:07:13   it makes sense that they don't need to update it.

01:07:16   Like it would be nice, but if they're selling it

01:07:18   in kind of low quantities, like this is obviously not

01:07:21   the biggest selling iPad, because if it were,

01:07:23   they'd just update it.

01:07:25   But in selling in quantities enough

01:07:26   that it makes sense to keep it around,

01:07:28   even if they don't update the config,

01:07:31   it might be around for years to come.

01:07:33   I don't know.

01:07:33   Yeah.

01:07:35   And they already have it up to sort

01:07:36   of the baseline level of modern Apple iOS hardware,

01:07:40   where it has touch ID support, it has a retina screen.

01:07:43   - What do you think their thought is?

01:07:48   The iPhone is getting bigger and kind of encroaching

01:07:51   on where the Mini is or the fact that people

01:07:55   just aren't buying the Mini?

01:07:57   - I think it has something to do,

01:07:59   well, I don't think it's what Apple's thinking.

01:08:01   I think it's what customers are thinking.

01:08:03   And I think Apple's, you know, customers do the thinking

01:08:06   And what they sell or what they buy,

01:08:09   Apple makes more of and updates.

01:08:13   And I think what customers are probably thinking is--

01:08:15   I think more people like the 9.7-inch iPad.

01:08:21   I think Apple got that right in 2010,

01:08:25   when the first one came out.

01:08:27   They got the size right.

01:08:30   This is the best size for the device

01:08:33   that we're thinking of calling the iPad.

01:08:36   I think they nailed it, and I think it's still true

01:08:38   to this day, and I think the fact that for people

01:08:41   who kind of want a more handheld-sized thing,

01:08:45   the plus-sized phones are not so close.

01:08:50   I mean, there's definitely a difference

01:08:51   between an iPad Mini and an iPhone 7 Plus,

01:08:54   but it's close enough, though, that somebody

01:08:56   who has a 7 Plus is not gonna buy an iPad Mini.

01:08:59   - Yeah, I'd agree with that, and once they get rid of the,

01:09:05   - What did you call them, the chin and the forehead?

01:09:08   - Yeah.

01:09:08   - That's gonna make, it's gonna make it seem even larger.

01:09:12   Well, I suppose it will be, but.

01:09:15   - I do think the current pricing lineup

01:09:16   is a little weird for the iPad.

01:09:19   Because there's like a big gap

01:09:24   between the 9.7 inch just plain iPad,

01:09:28   the one that just came out a few months ago,

01:09:30   and the entry level iPad Pro.

01:09:33   Like there's no middle range in the iPad lineup anymore.

01:09:37   Like it used to be the Mini was the low end price.

01:09:40   The 9.7 inch, what they used to call the iPad Air,

01:09:45   was the mid range and then the iPad Pro was the high end.

01:09:48   But instead they don't really have a mid range anymore

01:09:51   because they dropped the price on the 9.7 inch iPad

01:09:54   below the price of the iPad Pro.

01:09:56   Right, if you look at the 32 gigabyte models,

01:10:03   or the entry level models.

01:10:04   The cheapest iPad Mini is a $399 iPad with 128 gigabytes.

01:10:12   And then to get the regular iPad,

01:10:14   you can get one for $329, which is a lower price,

01:10:17   but it only has 32 gigabytes.

01:10:18   And then the $128 model, which is probably the better model

01:10:22   for most people-- 32 is pretty slim-- is $429.

01:10:25   So for only $30 more, you can get the new iPad instead

01:10:29   of the iPad Mini 4.

01:10:31   That's a hell of a deal.

01:10:32   I mean, that seems-- it just doesn't--

01:10:34   it sort of defies the, hey, you get a discount

01:10:36   for buying a small iPad.

01:10:38   So it seems like they're pushing people towards that.

01:10:43   Right.

01:10:44   And then the next one up is a 32 gigabyte 9.7 inch iPad Pro.

01:10:48   It jumps all the way to $599.

01:10:50   You go from $429 to $600.

01:10:52   And at 128 gigs, for the 128 gig config, which for the Pro,

01:10:58   I think most people are going to want.

01:10:59   because if you really are thinking about using the iPad

01:11:02   in a use case where you don't need a lot of storage

01:11:05   or you're not gonna put a lot of apps on it,

01:11:07   you're not gonna get a Pro anyway.

01:11:08   You're gonna get the just plain iPad.

01:11:11   So for the 128, it goes to 699.

01:11:13   It's 700 bucks.

01:11:14   - Yeah.

01:11:15   - That's almost, what is it?

01:11:17   Two, $270 difference between the 9.7-inch iPad

01:11:22   and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro at 128 gigabytes.

01:11:26   That seems like too big of a gap.

01:11:29   So it just makes me think that whatever they're going to announce at WWDC is

01:11:33   going to fill in some of the gaps in that pricing.

01:11:35   Like maybe what they'll do is introduce these new iPad pros with the chin and

01:11:44   forehead gone and keep the prices that we have right now for iPad pros, and then

01:11:48   keep some of the older iPad pros that are on sale today and keep them in the lineup

01:11:54   in that mid range price range.

01:11:58   That would be my bet as to what Apple does.

01:12:01   - And there's rumors of the new size, right?

01:12:06   - Yeah.

01:12:07   Well, the new size though,

01:12:09   it's a screen size, not a device size.

01:12:11   I think what that means is when they take

01:12:13   the chin and forehead away,

01:12:15   instead of making the device smaller,

01:12:16   they just fill it in with a slightly bigger screen.

01:12:19   And that if you stacked it on top of each other,

01:12:22   it might be about the same size physically.

01:12:24   - So what's that gonna do to the graphics and everything?

01:12:28   - Nothing, I think that's--

01:12:29   - It's just gonna spread it out?

01:12:32   - Yeah, I think that the graphics on these iPads,

01:12:35   on the A10 series chips, it doesn't even break a sweat.

01:12:40   - Yeah.

01:12:41   - Yeah, that makes sense.

01:12:43   - What about apps?

01:12:45   Will it affect them in any--

01:12:46   - Yeah, I think that they'll need to be, you know,

01:12:48   but I think if they're using the size classes right,

01:12:51   and the apps that have already been written

01:12:53   adjust to iPad split screen multitasking, you know, where you no longer make assumptions

01:12:59   about you that you have the whole screen, right? You might be 50/50, you might be two-thirds,

01:13:05   one-third. I think apps that are already adjusted that will adjust to the new size easily. Okay.

01:13:12   And if they don't, you know, and I'm sure they'll have a mode in where apps that haven't

01:13:15   been updated by their developers will just run in a stretch mode or something like that,

01:13:19   maybe like letterboxed or something like that. Do you use that split screen?

01:13:23   I don't use an iPad enough, but when I do use an iPad, I definitely use the split screen.

01:13:31   I found that to be very helpful. It's one of those features that you talked about earlier with

01:13:39   unlocking your Mac that you just, once you get used to using, you kind of really love.

01:13:45   Yeah, you know, one thing I definitely do on the iPad is I will watch baseball games and

01:13:52   it's nice to have the baseball game running while you're still paying attention to like a

01:14:02   slack conversation or an iMessage or something like that and you don't have to leave the game,

01:14:06   you can just, you know, you can just chat with somebody while you're watching the game. It's,

01:14:10   you know, I definitely use it. I think it could be improved though, which leads me to the next

01:14:14   topic but I will I will hold that until I do another sponsor break to thank our next sponsor

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01:16:36   All right, here's my next topic, Jim.

01:16:38   You led right into it.

01:16:40   I think that iOS is overdue for iPad-specific features.

01:16:48   I heard there were rumors last year

01:16:51   that it was slated for iOS 10 and was one of those things,

01:16:55   like I mentioned earlier in the show, that wasn't ready in time

01:16:59   and therefore didn't make the cut.

01:17:02   and I think it's overdue to be there this year.

01:17:07   And I think it might be a big part of the WWDC keynote.

01:17:11   - So if we both agree that hardware-wise,

01:17:15   iPad makes sense, then they could really make a big splash

01:17:20   by having software-only features on iPad as well.

01:17:26   - Yeah, because to state the obvious,

01:17:30   There's an awful lot that the iPhone and iPad share.

01:17:33   And there's an awful lot of-- there's

01:17:35   some benefits to the fact that they share an operating system,

01:17:38   and that you can have these universal apps

01:17:40   that the same app runs on your phone, it runs on iPad,

01:17:43   and they share a lot of things.

01:17:45   But there's one very obvious thing

01:17:47   that's very different about the iPad than the iPhone, which

01:17:49   is that it has a humongous screen compared to the iPhone.

01:17:54   And an awful lot of ways-- in little ways,

01:18:00   and like 100 little paper cuts here and there,

01:18:02   the fact that iOS started life as a phone OS

01:18:06   and the phone is still the primary product

01:18:11   of the entire company, it makes the iPad suffer

01:18:15   in 100 little ways that if the iPad were Apple's only product,

01:18:19   or if the tables were turned and it

01:18:22   was the iPad that sold 70 million units a quarter

01:18:25   and the iPhone that sold 9, 10 million a quarter,

01:18:30   iOS would be way better on the iPad.

01:18:33   There's just no doubt about it, right?

01:18:35   Yeah, absolutely.

01:18:36   Did you read Federico Vittucci's piece last week?

01:18:40   It had almost like a little book length.

01:18:42   Yeah, I know.

01:18:44   What he hoped to see in iOS 11.

01:18:47   And boy, I loved it.

01:18:49   And a lot of times, I don't like concept videos like that.

01:18:52   Like, why waste the time on that?

01:18:56   Because most of the time when people make concept videos,

01:18:58   they're so far out there that there's no way that you

01:19:02   could actually build it today.

01:19:05   Whereas everything Federico imagined

01:19:06   is completely feasible.

01:19:08   There's not one idea he has that is like pie in the sky.

01:19:12   Well, yeah, that would be nice, but how the hell would

01:19:14   that work?

01:19:16   And an awful lot of his ideas revolve around multitasking,

01:19:19   having two things on screen, multiple things on screen,

01:19:22   and being able to do things that on the Mac

01:19:24   you just take for granted.

01:19:26   If you have a file on your desktop

01:19:28   and you want to send it in a message, you just click on it

01:19:31   and drag it into the message.

01:19:32   Yeah.

01:19:33   [LAUGHTER]

01:19:35   I mean, I laugh.

01:19:37   But it's things like that that keep me from really

01:19:42   feasibly even thinking of being a full-time iPad user.

01:19:45   It would just drive me nuts.

01:19:48   Yeah.

01:19:48   When you can see the one thing right here,

01:19:51   and you can't drag it to the other thing that you see at the same time on screen, it feels broken.

01:19:55   Right. Yeah, I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. And I don't think that there's anybody in

01:20:03   our community that really uses the iPad like Federico does.

01:20:09   No. That's the thing. When I blinked to it, I said, the best thing about it isn't any specific idea,

01:20:14   but it's the genuine passion and love for the platform that pervades his writing about it.

01:20:20   Like he sees a potential for the iPad that I personally don't and it's why I really enjoyed

01:20:28   reading his piece where I was like, I think he's onto something here that this really could be a

01:20:33   lot better for typical day-to-day productivity. - Well, and I think that's, you touched on it

01:20:39   at the beginning of this segment that iOS would be different and better on the iPad

01:20:48   if that's what it was made for. But you know, having iPhone be the main thing, it makes

01:20:57   a lot more difficult. Yeah, there is a, there's a too many chefs spoil the stew

01:21:03   aspect that you know, you can't just throw engineers at a problem and money at a problem

01:21:11   and get it done faster.

01:21:12   I mean, it's the famous programming adage

01:21:18   that if you throw more engineers at an overdue programming

01:21:23   project, it actually makes it even later,

01:21:25   because you waste more time in the collaboration

01:21:28   between the programmers than you get.

01:21:31   It's not like painting a house where

01:21:34   you can have more painters get the job done faster.

01:21:39   But Apple is-- I don't know if you've heard this, Jim,

01:21:44   but Apple is a financially successful company.

01:21:46   I think expecting the iPad to advance at a fast rate

01:21:54   is not unreasonable for a company with their resources.

01:21:58   And given what they say about the iPad,

01:22:02   and that they say that this is the future of personal computing

01:22:04   and stuff like that, I think that they

01:22:06   need to put their money where their mouth is

01:22:08   and make it happen.

01:22:10   - I think part of the problem with the iPad though

01:22:14   is that from a consumer's perspective,

01:22:18   I think the consumer when they heard about tablets

01:22:23   expected it to do more quicker than what it actually does.

01:22:28   Apple's very clear in this is a touch interface

01:22:33   and we're not gonna do a mouse on screen.

01:22:35   There's a Mac for that.

01:22:37   But I don't think as much as there's people in the 50 plus age group and the 20 and under age group that

01:22:44   You know from kids to older people that love the ipad. It's that group in between

01:22:51   that

01:22:53   Can't really get their head around how to use it. Yeah, uh as a full-time thing, so

01:22:59   Maybe apple's actually waiting

01:23:02   to see

01:23:04   You know where this whole thing goes. I mean

01:23:06   yeah, they're selling millions, they're selling a lot less than what they used to,

01:23:10   but I just, I think people are having a difficult time wrapping their head around it.

01:23:15   Uh, the book that I was thinking of was Frederick Brooks, Fred Brooks' famous book,

01:23:20   The Mythical Man-Month, where the central theme of the book is that adding manpower to a late

01:23:24   software project makes it later. So, before anybody sends a correction to me or says,

01:23:29   "That's what you're thinking of, that was the book." Uh, anyway, I think you're right.

01:23:34   - You already got 100 emails about that.

01:23:37   (laughing)

01:23:39   - I put it in the show notes.

01:23:41   I did, I swear to God, there it is, you can see it.

01:23:44   I think, here's a little thing that I think is weird

01:23:49   about the iPad and doesn't really make sense to me.

01:23:52   If I am using a Mac and let's say I've got a Safari window

01:23:58   and I've got a BB Edit window and I'm writing in BB Edit

01:24:03   BB Edit and I'm taking notes from the Safari thing and I can put the Safari

01:24:07   window on the left and the BB Edit window on the right and I can see them

01:24:11   both side by side. I can tell instantly which one currently has the focus

01:24:19   because it looks different. It's, you know, if I use the default colors it's got the

01:24:25   red, yellow, green buttons instead of the desaturated buttons. On the iPad when

01:24:30   you're multitasking, you can't really tell which one has focus.

01:24:35   And that bothers me.

01:24:37   And then the other thing is I don't really like the way

01:24:39   that the iPad multitasking gives favored status

01:24:43   to the left side.

01:24:44   Like the left is the real app, and the right,

01:24:47   even if you have it split 50/50, is still

01:24:49   sort of like a secondary app in some ways.

01:24:52   Whereas on the Mac, I could put the Safari window on the left

01:24:56   and the BB Edit window on the right.

01:24:58   and if I change my mind, I can put BB Edit on the left

01:25:00   and Safari on the right, and it doesn't make any difference.

01:25:04   I don't understand why there's this,

01:25:06   you can't just treat both sides of split screen

01:25:09   on the iPad the same.

01:25:11   Like it just seems to me like a UI concept

01:25:13   that hasn't been thought through thoroughly.

01:25:15   - Or hasn't been implemented.

01:25:18   - Yeah, and so I really love to see them take this idea

01:25:23   of doing two apps or three apps or maybe four apps

01:25:27   on the 12.9 inch iPad at the same time.

01:25:30   Like wouldn't it be interesting if you could have

01:25:34   four apps all running in narrow columns side by side

01:25:38   on the iPad Pro?

01:25:39   I could think of context where that would be useful.

01:25:42   - You have to think with everything that Apple tests

01:25:46   and everything that they do,

01:25:48   that I mean they must have thought about this stuff.

01:25:52   - I don't think so, but for example,

01:25:54   just think like if you're doing a keynote,

01:25:56   If you're in a keynote and you're taking notes

01:25:59   and you're tweeting and let's say you're part

01:26:04   of a bigger news organization where there's a team

01:26:07   and you've got an internal Slack, wouldn't you want

01:26:09   to see all three of those things on screen at once?

01:26:11   - Yeah, you would.

01:26:12   - Right, it's, you know.

01:26:13   You know Apple's thought about it.

01:26:17   The question is have they taken the time

01:26:19   and put a team together to actually make something

01:26:22   truly, thoroughly thoughtful and ready to go?

01:26:25   I would love to see it this year at WWDC,

01:26:27   and I think, you know, it just seems like something

01:26:30   that could be on the table.

01:26:32   And I think it would get a great response.

01:26:35   - Yeah, yeah, so do I.

01:26:38   - All right, so iPad.

01:26:41   I think iPad will be a big, software and hardware,

01:26:43   big part of WWDC.

01:26:45   How about rumors that they're working on a Siri,

01:26:48   speak, standalone Siri speaker device?

01:26:50   You know, like a--

01:26:53   - Do you use one of those?

01:26:55   - We do, we have the Amazon Echo.

01:27:00   - Okay.

01:27:01   - And we use it, we play music,

01:27:02   and we don't really do much else.

01:27:03   But we're looking at getting some smart home stuff.

01:27:08   We don't have any smart home stuff.

01:27:13   Our house is very dumb.

01:27:15   - Yeah.

01:27:16   - And getting some lights that are set up

01:27:18   so that you can just turn all the lights on and off

01:27:22   of time, get window shades that you can raise and lower,

01:27:25   you know, and stuff like that.

01:27:29   And if-- unless Apple comes out with something like that,

01:27:33   we will hook them up to our Amazon thing,

01:27:36   because the Amazon thing works pretty well for controlling

01:27:38   those things, supposedly.

01:27:39   I can't verify it, because I don't have anything

01:27:41   like that in the house yet.

01:27:43   But we will.

01:27:46   And there's a rumor.

01:27:47   It's not just people wishing for it.

01:27:48   There are rumors that Apple is working on something like that.

01:27:51   Right. Right. But isn't Siri gonna have to get a lot smarter?

01:27:58   I think all of these things need to get a lot smarter. I think they're all dumb in different

01:28:04   ways. And people, this is my central premise. I'm not I don't defend serious being light years ahead

01:28:11   of any of these competitors. I do think Siri is ahead of Google's and Amazon's in certain ways.

01:28:18   And I think Google's is ahead.

01:28:20   I think all three of them have their pluses and minuses.

01:28:22   And depending on what you want out of it, one of them

01:28:25   might make you happy.

01:28:26   And then you think the other ones are garbage

01:28:28   because they don't do the things.

01:28:30   I totally get it.

01:28:31   I can see that Amazon's thing does things that Siri can't,

01:28:34   and works in certain ways that Siri doesn't.

01:28:37   And if that's all you want to do,

01:28:40   it makes you very happy as an Echo user.

01:28:43   But that doesn't mean that Siri is garbage.

01:28:46   But Siri would obviously have to be

01:28:48   much improved for a standalone family device

01:28:51   than it is right now.

01:28:54   Yeah.

01:28:55   I mean, there's so many things.

01:28:56   All these things have to improve.

01:28:58   For a family device, it has to be able to recognize voices.

01:29:02   And I know how tricky that can be.

01:29:04   Like, for example, apparently-- I don't hear it,

01:29:07   but when I became a teenager, when I hit puberty,

01:29:11   when I answered the phone and the phone call was for my dad,

01:29:14   every single time they would just start talking to me like I was Bob Gruber. It was so weird,

01:29:19   because as a kid, my dad had a long commute to work every day. And so, a lot of times,

01:29:25   and so he'd carpool with some of his colleagues. And so, a lot of times before, and my dad worked

01:29:30   third shift, so he would leave for work around nine o'clock at night. So, a lot of times,

01:29:37   between seven and eight or something like that, my dad might be taking a nap after dinner before

01:29:44   he gets ready for work, and the phone rings, and it's somebody, you know, one of his guys,

01:29:48   regular guys who he rides to work with, with, you know, maybe he's going to be 10 minutes late or

01:29:52   something. And if I answered the phone, they'd say, "Bob," and they'd start talking to me,

01:29:58   right? And so if a human being thought that me as a teenager sounded like my dad, it's going to be

01:30:04   a tough programming problem to get a standalone device that can tell two siblings, a brother,

01:30:12   two brothers who are two years apart who kind of sound the same because genetically they're brothers

01:30:17   or a father and a son or something like that. I understand that's probably a hard problem,

01:30:23   but guess what? In real life, you can tell people's voices apart, right? And that's, you know,

01:30:29   these devices have to be as smart as people in that device, in that regard.

01:30:36   I agree with you. I think a lot of the problem, and as you mentioned, is what

01:30:43   you want to be able to do. And at this point, I try and have everything so dumbed down because

01:30:51   I've run into so many problems with these assistants. I try and ask the simplest of

01:30:56   questions, and otherwise, I'll just go Google, you know? Because even just, I think it was last

01:31:05   weekend or the weekend before, I asked uh, Siri what time the hockey game was on, the NHL playoffs,

01:31:13   and Siri came up and gave me a game that was coming up on Monday, and I said,

01:31:17   "I guess there is no game on today." I thought there was, so I turned on the the TV,

01:31:23   there's a hockey game on, you know, it's coming up.

01:31:26   Trenton Larkin And then that instantly burns your trust, right?

01:31:30   And now you feel like you can—

01:31:31   Pete: Instantly.

01:31:32   And I'm thinking at that point, and I tried it again, you know, what time is the hockey

01:31:38   game on today?

01:31:40   And Siri gave me the hockey game on Monday again.

01:31:43   And you know, I'm thinking, well, is there somebody at Apple sitting there typing stuff

01:31:47   into Siri, but they don't work on the weekends?

01:31:51   [Laughter]

01:31:52   You know?

01:31:53   Pete: It is weird.

01:31:54   It's weird when you get the right answer so many times in a row.

01:31:58   I got a bunch of them during the NCAA tournament where I was really, you know, my favorite

01:32:02   team is North Carolina and they ended up winning the championship.

01:32:05   But there were a lot of games to watch then because they kept winning.

01:32:08   And I was asking, you know, when's the next North Carolina game?

01:32:10   And I got the right answer most times, but then one time I got the wrong answer.

01:32:14   And I think it was the same thing you might've run into where the game had already started.

01:32:18   You know, and a human assistant, if I had a human butler in my house who could answer

01:32:25   my questions because I'm Bruce Wayne or whatever, you know, and I have Alfred.

01:32:29   If Alfred knew the game was on right now, he would say, "Oh, you're missing it." And you know,

01:32:37   North, there's two minutes, the first half started three minutes ago and North Carolina is up 6-4.

01:32:43   Yeah.

01:32:44   And it's on Channel 803.

01:32:47   If you ask about basketball, that's what it'll say.

01:32:51   Right.

01:32:51   It'll say, oh, Golden State's winning six to four,

01:32:55   it's two minutes into the first quarter or something.

01:32:58   So I just, I don't, that's what burns me

01:33:02   about these assistants.

01:33:04   - They're so early days, they're so primitive.

01:33:07   It's literally like the Apple One,

01:33:10   where you programmed it, you had to turn it on

01:33:15   and all you could do is write your own programs.

01:33:18   That's where all of these devices are.

01:33:21   Google's, Amazon's, Siri on your devices.

01:33:24   But they gotta be so much smarter.

01:33:25   If I've got a thing in my kitchen, it should be trivial.

01:33:29   It's gotta work where if I say what's on my calendar today,

01:33:33   I get my calendar, and if my wife says

01:33:36   what's on my calendar today, she gets her calendar.

01:33:38   - Right, right. - And it doesn't work

01:33:39   like that, there's a way to hook up

01:33:40   like a second thing to Amazon, but you have to like,

01:33:43   it doesn't just work by both of us saying that.

01:33:45   You have to say, like, you have to tell,

01:33:48   like, hey, Dingus, switch the account from John to Amy,

01:33:52   and then it's using a different account

01:33:53   or something like that.

01:33:54   It doesn't just work in the way that it should,

01:33:57   which is you just talk to it

01:33:59   and it knows who's talking to you.

01:34:00   - Right.

01:34:01   - I mean, and the other thing

01:34:02   that would make these things smarter

01:34:03   and help identify voices would be

01:34:05   if they'd combined it with a camera

01:34:07   and not have separate devices like Amazon's coming out with

01:34:10   where there's a separate one with a camera

01:34:11   and there's a thing with a speaker and stuff like that.

01:34:14   But if it has a camera, it would help.

01:34:16   Like if the software has trouble telling the voices

01:34:20   of me and my dad apart, the camera should help clarify it

01:34:24   because I don't look anything like my dad.

01:34:26   - And wasn't there a story a little while ago

01:34:31   that Schiller said that these types of devices

01:34:34   needed a screen?

01:34:35   - I think he did, yes.

01:34:39   - So the next one, or an Apple one would have a screen.

01:34:44   - Yeah, Amazon came out with the one with the screen

01:34:48   the other week and I showed it to,

01:34:50   and we have the Amazon Echo in our kitchen

01:34:52   and it's subtle enough and tuck-away-able enough

01:34:56   in a corner that it flew, but I showed that to Amy

01:34:58   and I was like, would you let me put one of these

01:35:01   in the kitchen and she said no.

01:35:03   (laughing)

01:35:05   - Well, maybe she was just testing you,

01:35:07   you should go get it, put it in there

01:35:09   and see how she reacts then.

01:35:12   - I don't know, it's not an attractive device.

01:35:14   I wouldn't call it ugly per se,

01:35:15   but it looks like a sort of '80s Buck Rogers

01:35:19   sort of aesthetic.

01:35:21   It does not look like a very elegant device.

01:35:26   Like if Apple came out with a device that looked like that,

01:35:28   I would honestly, people would leave the keynote

01:35:31   and be like, you know, sell the stock, short the stock.

01:35:33   You know, something's gone wrong.

01:35:36   I mean it, I really do mean it.

01:35:39   And I kind of feel like people grade Amazon on a curve.

01:35:43   - Yes, they do. - Because they're not known

01:35:45   for their design.

01:35:46   But the truth is they're competing against Apple,

01:35:50   so why shouldn't they be judged by the,

01:35:52   when Apple has raised the bar for how devices should look,

01:35:55   why in the world should a company making competing devices

01:35:57   not be graded on the same scale?

01:35:59   - Well, I agree with you,

01:36:00   but why shouldn't Amazon be graded

01:36:02   on not making any money either?

01:36:04   - Well, that's a separate discussion.

01:36:08   I'm amenable to the agreement

01:36:12   that they could make money if they wanted to,

01:36:13   and since investors aren't asking them to,

01:36:15   why not just not make any money?

01:36:18   Well, I think that's a separate issue.

01:36:21   - It is, it is a separate issue.

01:36:22   So, I--

01:36:25   - Do you think Apple is going to have one at WDC?

01:36:28   - Well, that's what I was just, I was gonna ask you that.

01:36:30   I don't know, I don't think so, I don't think so.

01:36:35   - Here's what I think, I think it's so exciting

01:36:38   because the only thing people seem to know

01:36:40   is Apple might have something in this category.

01:36:43   I think if Apple does, it is very, very likely

01:36:47   that it is conceptually different than the Echo

01:36:53   and the Google one.

01:36:53   The Echo and the Google one, to me, are the exact same concept.

01:36:57   They do look different.

01:36:58   Google's is more like a vase.

01:37:00   But there are speakers that listen and do things

01:37:03   and can be hooked up.

01:37:04   And I think if Apple comes out with one,

01:37:05   it's going to be different conceptually.

01:37:08   maybe it's less about it being a thing that you talk to

01:37:11   and it really is just a speaker system

01:37:13   so that you can play airplay music to it.

01:37:16   - Well, that's kind of boring.

01:37:19   - It is kind of boring, but it might be,

01:37:21   it might be more what, it might fulfill a different need.

01:37:26   And if it is a sort of intelligent assistant type thing,

01:37:29   it might be very different.

01:37:31   - I would like something different conceptually,

01:37:35   but I don't know what that is.

01:37:40   I just want it to work.

01:37:44   I've said before, I've tried to add reminders

01:37:49   and appointments and things like that in with Siri

01:37:52   and it just, it could work.

01:37:56   But then again, maybe not.

01:37:57   - And I think that we've all collectively

01:38:04   sort of given up on Apple's Wi-Fi hardware?

01:38:09   - Yeah.

01:38:11   - I mean, and part of it is because it's been a long time

01:38:12   since they've updated it.

01:38:13   Part of it is that there are a lot of competing products

01:38:16   that have come out with newer stuff,

01:38:20   like the mesh networks that Eros do and stuff like that.

01:38:23   But going back two, three years,

01:38:29   there's been speculation ever since Apple has started

01:38:33   the home kit stuff that, hey, doesn't this home kit stuff

01:38:38   sort of seem like it needs a hub?

01:38:42   You know, like in the, you know,

01:38:44   and Apple has often used that hub metaphor

01:38:47   that, you know, the digital, you know,

01:38:49   that the Mac is your digital hub back in 2001.

01:38:53   And it's the thing that you plug your digital camera into,

01:38:56   you plug your iPod into, and it's your digital hub.

01:39:00   And if you have a video camera that shoots digital video,

01:39:03   What do you do with it?

01:39:04   You plug it into your Mac.

01:39:05   Okay.

01:39:05   Then, famously, I think it might have been his last keynote,

01:39:08   Steve Jobs announcing iCloud said,

01:39:11   "This is the new hub of your personal life.

01:39:14   "The hub is gonna be iCloud,

01:39:16   "and the truth is in the cloud."

01:39:18   And so, you know, your documents are in iCloud,

01:39:22   and then they show up as satellites to,

01:39:24   your Mac is now just a satellite device

01:39:26   like your phone and your iPad, or your Apple TV.

01:39:33   For the home kit, though, I think

01:39:35   that there is a need for a hub.

01:39:37   And it makes sense that it wouldn't be in the cloud,

01:39:40   that it could be a device that's in your home.

01:39:42   Because your home is a thing that doesn't go places, right?

01:39:47   So what is it going to control?

01:39:51   I don't know.

01:39:51   Everything.

01:39:52   Everything that's smart in your house, right?

01:39:54   And that-- but that it's--

01:39:57   and this idea isn't new, but people

01:40:00   don't talk about it anymore.

01:40:02   But what if it also was your Wi-Fi base station?

01:40:08   And that Mark Gurman's report that they're out

01:40:11   of the business of making stuff is just wrong.

01:40:17   And that they've been hard at work on a new hub-like thing

01:40:22   that instead of just distributing Wi-Fi

01:40:24   through your house is there for all sorts of other things

01:40:27   as well.

01:40:28   Speaker, it can play music.

01:40:30   it can control your smart lights and your window shades

01:40:34   and stuff like that.

01:40:36   - All by talking to it.

01:40:37   - Right.

01:40:38   Or connecting to iCloud would let you,

01:40:41   give you a secure way to do it remotely from your phone.

01:40:45   I mean, and there are ways, you know,

01:40:46   I know that there's back to your Mac

01:40:47   and there's other ways that when you're out

01:40:50   and you know, like if you've got the Nest thermostats,

01:40:53   you can use the Nest app to adjust the temperature

01:40:56   in your house when you're outside the house using the app.

01:40:59   I'm not saying that there aren't already ways

01:41:01   that these smart house devices can be controlled externally,

01:41:04   but something that-- I don't know enough about it,

01:41:08   you know what I mean, and the details.

01:41:09   But you know that Apple's interested in the home

01:41:11   because they have HomeKit and they talk about it

01:41:13   and they are working on it.

01:41:15   But it seems to me like a centralized device that--

01:41:19   or maybe not centralized.

01:41:20   Maybe it's something that you would

01:41:22   buy two or three of the same thing

01:41:23   and put them in different rooms.

01:41:24   But something that could tie into that

01:41:26   seems to have potential.

01:41:27   And maybe if you have two or three of them,

01:41:30   maybe they do work like Eros

01:41:32   and distribute a mesh network of WiFi.

01:41:34   Like WiFi is not a solved problem.

01:41:37   Good WiFi in the house is not a solved problem.

01:41:39   And it is better than it used to be,

01:41:41   but it still could be a lot better.

01:41:43   So I wouldn't be surprised.

01:41:45   There's a need.

01:41:48   Like that's the thing is it seems

01:41:49   like something Apple could do.

01:41:50   It is something along the lines

01:41:52   of what they've done in the past

01:41:53   and they're overdue for a product in this space.

01:41:56   So, I have faith, and maybe it's misplaced, but I don't think so. I have faith that if Apple is

01:42:05   going to do something in this space, it's going to do it in a way that is different. And that's what

01:42:11   I was saying earlier. I'm ready for conceptually a change, but I don't know what that is, but Apple

01:42:17   does. You know, this is something that I want them to not just do the same thing that Google is or

01:42:24   that Amazon is, but all of a sudden, Apple unveils this system and you can do all of

01:42:31   these different things with it just by talking to it, and it works every time you ask it

01:42:36   to do something. You know? That's, I would love that. I'd be right out there getting

01:42:43   one of those.

01:42:44   Pete: Yeah. Me too. So, I follow that under maybe. And I just think, I do think too, I

01:42:52   I think based on their hiring, I think based on what we know

01:42:55   that they've opened up their policies in regards

01:42:58   to AI researchers who work at Apple being allowed

01:43:03   to share and publish their stuff in professional journals,

01:43:08   which was apparently a real recruiting problem for Apple,

01:43:12   that the top men and women

01:43:17   in the artificial intelligence research,

01:43:20   for their careers, they need to publish on a regular basis

01:43:24   in these publications.

01:43:25   And that career-wise, going to Apple,

01:43:29   if you're not allowed to publish your stuff, in some ways,

01:43:32   you can't-- obviously, there's some kind of dollar amount

01:43:36   that you could offer somebody that they're going to say,

01:43:38   OK, I'll do it even if I hate that I can't publish

01:43:40   my results.

01:43:41   But just by competing at a salary-for-salary level

01:43:46   with other companies like Google and Amazon

01:43:49   and all of these companies, Facebook,

01:43:51   that are putting significant money in AI research,

01:43:54   if you're competing dollar for dollar

01:43:56   with these other companies, and the other companies

01:43:58   let you publish your research and Apple doesn't,

01:44:00   it was keeping the talent from going to Apple.

01:44:04   And so we know that Apple researchers

01:44:06   have started publishing and that they've opened up their policies.

01:44:11   Something's got to come out of that.

01:44:12   Apple hasn't really had much along the lines of AI

01:44:16   That's a big leap forward since Siri came out.

01:44:19   But no, but

01:44:24   it's going to be more than just Siri. Yeah.

01:44:31   I totally agree. I, but I think in, you said it just works.

01:44:35   You just want something that just works. That's right. I mean,

01:44:37   that's what drew all of us who are fans of Apple or follow Apple closely.

01:44:41   It, the, the, it just works factor is it's top of the list.

01:44:46   whatever your interests are, whether you're a graphic designer or a writer or even like if

01:44:53   whatever, whatever you do on your Apple stuff, the it just works factor is huge. It's the

01:45:00   definition of Apple and it's just not there on the AI front. Right, but you said earlier that

01:45:08   this whole thing, this whole industry is new. So nobody has it right yet.

01:45:15   But I will say Amazon made some very smart moves at CES by making Alexa

01:45:23   basically available as the AI.

01:45:28   Yeah, sort of like the Android of phones.

01:45:30   Yeah, that was brilliant. It was a brilliant move. They gave it to like, fridge companies,

01:45:37   all kinds of people.

01:45:38   - Yeah, 'cause they're not in it to sell the hardware,

01:45:41   really, they're in it to keep people

01:45:42   in the Amazon ecosystem, you know,

01:45:45   subscribing to Prime and hey, we're out of paper towels,

01:45:49   just tell your Amazon dingus to send some paper towels.

01:45:53   - Yeah, and let's make no mistake,

01:45:56   Amazon does have a great brand, you know.

01:46:00   People know that they can go to Amazon and buy stuff

01:46:02   and it's gonna be delivered and it's gonna work

01:46:05   except for that whole thing where they allow

01:46:08   all the knockoffs, you know, that kinda upsets me.

01:46:12   But otherwise, I think that they have a great brand.

01:46:16   They do a good thing.

01:46:18   - All right, let me take a final break here

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01:49:46   That's a tremendous amount of money.

01:49:49   You can buy me a beer for the money I save you

01:49:51   (laughing)

01:49:52   I'm gonna meet someday.

01:49:53   My thanks to mail route.

01:49:54   - I'm gonna have to give them a look.

01:49:56   - All right, Jim, back to the show.

01:49:57   What else do we got that we might be on for WWDC?

01:49:59   We didn't talk Mac.

01:50:01   - Well, there's rumors of Macs.

01:50:04   - There's rumors of updated Mac laptops already,

01:50:07   which would be pretty, for MacBook Pro,

01:50:10   would be pretty fast for a nine-month update.

01:50:13   So I'm not sure I'd buy that.

01:50:15   But on the other hand,

01:50:18   if they really do have new Intel chipsets

01:50:20   that are ready to go, maybe, you know.

01:50:23   - Maybe it's just gonna be one of these quick ones where,

01:50:26   oh yeah, by the way, today we're doing this,

01:50:28   or just a press release.

01:50:30   - Well, on the keynote, I'm sure they'd mention it,

01:50:34   but I don't think it would be a big part

01:50:36   of the presentation, because even if they have updated

01:50:38   MacBook Pros, I don't really think there'd be anything

01:50:41   to show off about them.

01:50:42   It's just, oh, they're faster, and maybe,

01:50:45   I don't know about the Intel stuff,

01:50:46   but maybe there's a way to configure them

01:50:49   with 32 gigabytes of RAM, I don't know.

01:50:52   I think more likely would be an update to the just plain MacBook

01:50:55   because that one is now over a year old

01:50:57   and has not been updated.

01:50:59   I love that computer.

01:51:01   I really do.

01:51:03   And it needs an update because the one and only thing

01:51:07   that I think is wrong with the device is that it is kind of slow.

01:51:11   And so it's by using those Intel Mobile M chipsets,

01:51:15   it lets it run without a fan.

01:51:17   It lets it be super, super thin, but dollar for, or, or benchmark for benchmark.

01:51:24   It's actually slower than an iPad pro.

01:51:26   Uh, so it could use, you know, that's a device that really could use the latest

01:51:30   and greatest from Intel performance wise.

01:51:32   Okay.

01:51:33   I don't, I don't disagree with, with that at all, but I would say that anybody that

01:51:40   uses one of the Mac books, isn't really in it for speed for

01:51:46   Right, it's not so slow that I would have said a year ago,

01:51:50   don't buy it.

01:51:52   But I would say now in 2017, yeah,

01:51:55   I think it's due for an upgrade.

01:51:56   I think it's the type of device that

01:51:58   should be on a once a year update schedule.

01:52:00   Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

01:52:02   For the foreseeable future.

01:52:04   There's a point down the road five, six years from now

01:52:07   where the chipsets like the Intel M series

01:52:11   will be fast enough that you wouldn't need a once a year

01:52:14   for these devices.

01:52:15   - Yeah, but if I pull out my MacBook,

01:52:20   I'm not gonna be recording music on it,

01:52:22   I'm gonna be doing email and web browsing

01:52:25   and stuff like that.

01:52:26   - So I would not be surprised to see a new updated MacBook

01:52:30   just because it's been over a year.

01:52:31   The rumor that there's already new MacBook Pros,

01:52:34   I find that hard to believe.

01:52:36   - Yeah.

01:52:37   - I mean, it's possible, I wouldn't be shocked,

01:52:39   but I would be a little surprised.

01:52:41   - But then when would be the next time

01:52:44   time that they would release a MacBook Pro. They wouldn't be at the iPhone event.

01:52:50   No, I think it would be like last year. It'd be in October.

01:52:51   But I don't think that they would do an event for this.

01:52:55   No, probably not.

01:52:57   If I can't see it.

01:52:59   Because, you know, like the event was because the touch bar was all new. And, you know,

01:53:04   if it's just faster and just has more RAM, that's not an event.

01:53:09   Right.

01:53:10   All right, wild card.

01:53:12   What if they totally sandbagged us

01:53:16   in March with that future of the Mac roundtable,

01:53:19   and they have new Mac Pros ready to announce?

01:53:23   Believe it or not?

01:53:25   Boy, I don't think so.

01:53:27   I don't think so either.

01:53:29   My sense, having actually been in that discussion,

01:53:33   was that there was no way they were sandbagging.

01:53:35   I wouldn't be surprised if they surprised us and come out

01:53:37   with them at the end of the year, like October,

01:53:40   and they would have an event for that.

01:53:42   That would not surprise me if they sort of laid into the,

01:53:47   we didn't say later this year,

01:53:49   implying that it would take a full year

01:53:51   from when they made the announcement.

01:53:54   I wouldn't be surprised if they under-promise

01:53:56   and over-deliver on that.

01:53:58   But to me, I think June is too soon.

01:54:00   I do think that they hit the reset button on this

01:54:03   too recently to be ready.

01:54:06   Now, what I took out of that meeting

01:54:10   was that they were being very genuine

01:54:12   in what they were saying.

01:54:14   - Yes.

01:54:15   - So I don't think that they in any way

01:54:19   were trying to be tricky.

01:54:20   - I don't think so either.

01:54:22   - So that's why I would say no to Mac Pros.

01:54:26   - Yeah, and the other thing too is if they thought

01:54:29   that they could possibly announce them at WWDC,

01:54:32   then I don't think they would have held that meeting at all.

01:54:34   They would have just waited.

01:54:35   - Agreed.

01:54:36   take the arrows for another three months

01:54:39   of the complaints about how old the Mac Pro is in there,

01:54:42   silence on the Mac Pro,

01:54:43   and then make the announcement at June.

01:54:44   I think that's the biggest evidence

01:54:46   that they're not gonna say anything about it at June.

01:54:48   - Yeah, very good.

01:54:50   But like you said, October, November,

01:54:52   yeah, that's wide open.

01:54:54   - Yeah, what about new iMacs?

01:54:55   The iMac is now a little bit,

01:54:57   the 5K iMac is a little bit old.

01:55:00   It's over a year old, a year and a half old?

01:55:03   - Well, honestly, I think that depends a lot

01:55:06   on the MacBook Pro,

01:55:09   because I think that they could have an event

01:55:14   if they did something significant with the iMac

01:55:17   and a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro.

01:55:22   - In the fall.

01:55:23   - In the fall.

01:55:24   - Yeah.

01:55:25   - So I think nobody's really complaining about the iMac.

01:55:29   - It's one of those, I mean, yes, it's, you know,

01:55:31   There's Intel chips that have come out since that would make it faster, but

01:55:34   you know it, you know, I've got the first 5k iMac and

01:55:39   Which is you know in even a year or older and it's you know for what I do and you know

01:55:46   I mean, I push my computer a little harder than most people. It's it's you know, still the it seems brilliantly fast to me

01:55:53   So I don't know. I'm using you think there's any chance that I'm a X at WWDC. I

01:56:00   I don't think so.

01:56:01   - I don't think, I think that the most reasonable Mac

01:56:08   that they could have is probably the MacBook.

01:56:10   - Yep.

01:56:11   - And then,

01:56:12   depending on when they plan on releasing the new Mac Pro,

01:56:18   they could do a nice event with Mac Pro, MacBook Pro,

01:56:22   and iMac in the fall.

01:56:23   - Yeah, I agree.

01:56:25   - That's what I would guess.

01:56:28   What about Mac OS? I guess it'll be 10.13.

01:56:32   I have no, there's no rumors.

01:56:36   I expect that they will announce it. I expect there is such a thing.

01:56:40   What is in it, I have no idea.

01:56:44   I think half of me sort of hopes that they have something cool to announce

01:56:48   for the Mac. New.

01:56:52   Just as further evidence of the, their

01:56:56   narrative, which is we still care as deeply about the Mac as ever, which is contrary to

01:57:00   a lot of people's fears. But the other half of me kind of hopes that Mac OS 10.13 is a

01:57:06   really boring release marketing-wise, and that it's really just focused on reliability

01:57:16   and cleaning up the stuff that's already there to make it go from 99% reliable to 100% reliable.

01:57:24   Well, I remember years ago when they did, remember when they started doing the, um,

01:57:31   stopped changing the cat and doing it in between like that?

01:57:34   Yep.

01:57:35   Panther or leopard and then snow leopard and the snow leopard one was always a cleanup.

01:57:41   And lion and mountain lion.

01:57:44   Yeah.

01:57:44   Those releases were always so good

01:57:49   because they would clean everything up

01:57:51   and it would go so fast.

01:57:53   You know, you would love...

01:57:55   Reliability for me for Mac OS

01:57:58   isn't even a question.

01:58:01   It's very reliable for me.

01:58:03   I should say that too.

01:58:04   I mean, I told you right before we started,

01:58:06   right before we started recording,

01:58:08   I restarted my MacBook.

01:58:11   And I typed uptime into terminal before I did,

01:58:15   and it was up for like 48 days.

01:58:18   - Yeah.

01:58:19   - So I'm not saying that my Macs are not reliable.

01:58:22   I mean, that's, you know, 48 days without rebooting

01:58:25   my MacBook Pro, which I've been living on lately.

01:58:28   You know, it's pretty reliable.

01:58:30   I'm just saying, though, that there still are,

01:58:32   there's a lot of little things that, you know.

01:58:34   - I agree.

01:58:35   - Well, I remember it was Snow Leopard,

01:58:37   I think it was Snow Leopard, was the one where,

01:58:39   I think, I know the number, it was 10-6,

01:58:41   where it went from 10.5 to 10.6,

01:58:43   and the OS actually got smaller.

01:58:46   Like, they cleaned up so much and tightened so much

01:58:49   that when you upgraded to the new OS,

01:58:52   you actually had more free hard drive space available.

01:58:54   (laughing)

01:58:55   Like, that's the sort of update

01:58:56   I would like to see them do with the Mac.

01:58:58   And just make these, and the new stuff would just be like,

01:59:02   any other new integrations where something is on your iPhone

01:59:06   and you can have the same thing on your Mac,

01:59:09   those continuity type features.

01:59:11   I'm sure there will be new features,

01:59:13   but I just think that instead of making it like a,

01:59:15   wow, this is an amazingly new Mac experience,

01:59:17   I think it should make you feel like you're right at home

01:59:20   like you are in Sierra today, it's just better.

01:59:23   - What about things like iTunes?

01:59:25   Do you think they're ready to unveil a new--

01:59:28   - Oh boy, that would be a surprise, wouldn't it?

01:59:30   - Wouldn't it?

01:59:31   - I would love it.

01:59:32   I think it's overdue.

01:59:34   I mean, I would really like to see them

01:59:37   bust iTunes out into a bunch of separate apps.

01:59:41   Yeah.

01:59:42   I would like to see iTunes be all about-- the app named

01:59:44   iTunes would be all about music.

01:59:47   I'd like-- they should--

01:59:49   I think they should even have a separate podcast

01:59:51   app for the Mac.

01:59:53   I think Apple TV should be its own app on the Mac,

01:59:57   where that's where you go if you want to watch TV and movies.

02:00:02   In the same way that they thankfully didn't put iBooks

02:00:05   into iTunes, right?

02:00:06   I mean, I would laugh, because it seems silly,

02:00:09   but that's what they've done with everything else.

02:00:10   - Everything, yeah.

02:00:11   - It makes no more sense to read a book in iTunes

02:00:14   than it does to watch a movie in iTunes,

02:00:15   but that's what you do if you're watching

02:00:16   a movie on your Mac.

02:00:17   I would love to see them clean that up.

02:00:20   I don't know if they're ever going to.

02:00:22   I've always thought the thing that's holding them back

02:00:24   the most is the fact that they need to have

02:00:26   a Windows version of iTunes for people to sync.

02:00:29   Literally, I mean, they still sell iPods.

02:00:32   - Yeah.

02:00:34   I mean, they don't necessarily need a Windows version

02:00:38   to start off.

02:00:39   - I say let Windows keep their monolithic piece of crap

02:00:43   iTunes and make it nice on the Mac.

02:00:48   - Yeah.

02:00:49   - And separate them.

02:00:50   - You know, I think what's holding them back

02:00:53   is the fact that iTunes is the gateway to all the money.

02:00:58   - I don't know if it is anymore though, really.

02:01:02   I mean, and why couldn't you just buy if,

02:01:04   why wouldn't you just be able to buy your iTunes movies in the new TV app for

02:01:08   Apple? I mean, for Mac,

02:01:10   I don't think it would decrease the money at all.

02:01:14   I just mean that, like, I think that that whole system is so old,

02:01:19   you know, everything to do with it is old. Yeah. But on,

02:01:25   it's probably still running on web objects for God's sake.

02:01:28   It is. Well, the URLs certainly look like they are, but, but on,

02:01:31   It hasn't stopped iOS from having a nice array

02:01:35   of distinct, discrete apps that do smaller amounts of very

02:01:40   specific things.

02:01:41   No, you're right.

02:01:44   It hasn't stopped them from doing it well on iOS.

02:01:47   I would love to see that.

02:01:49   I think the chances are very low,

02:01:50   but I would love to see it.

02:01:52   Yeah, I think it's possible.

02:01:53   But what else might they announce?

02:01:57   Apple TV?

02:01:57   Anything Apple TV related to WWDC?

02:02:00   Maybe some software, but I don't expect anything huge.

02:02:06   Yeah, and it's--

02:02:07   I really don't.

02:02:08   Huge to me would be if they untie

02:02:11   the knot that is their answer to these TV bundles.

02:02:18   And I don't think that that's going to happen at WWDC,

02:02:22   because that's the one thing that leaks.

02:02:24   These media companies leak like sieves.

02:02:26   Like, Eddie Q goes in and meets with HBO,

02:02:29   And five minutes later, there's a story in Variety

02:02:31   about Eddy Cue's meeting with HBO.

02:02:33   I mean, guess what?

02:02:34   He doesn't even get back to the car, and it's already leaked.

02:02:36   Right.

02:02:37   And it already says what type of sandals

02:02:38   he showed up to the meeting in.

02:02:40   Yeah.

02:02:40   Yeah.

02:02:41   [LAUGHTER]

02:02:43   And so the fact that there don't seem

02:02:45   to be any leaks of an imminent pay $20 a month

02:02:52   or add an extra $10 a month to your Apple Music subscription

02:02:56   and you get TV too, that's where I

02:02:58   feel like they're going to go.

02:02:59   I feel like they're going to sort of make the same naming

02:03:03   mistake they made before, which is that they named the thing

02:03:08   iTunes and the iTunes Music Store, and then all of a sudden

02:03:11   they were selling TV shows and movies and apps

02:03:14   from the iTunes Music Store.

02:03:15   I think the same thing might happen with Apple Music, where

02:03:18   Apple Music is the thing where you pay Apple $10 a month,

02:03:21   or maybe $20 a month as an option,

02:03:24   and you get Apple Media.

02:03:27   It's like Netflix and Hulu and those things.

02:03:33   I wouldn't be surprised if they just call it Apple Music.

02:03:37   But it includes-- because there are already these TV shows

02:03:40   that Apple is producing, the handful of TV shows,

02:03:42   that is the Planet of the Apps and the Carpool Karaoke,

02:03:48   that they're going to be given-- the way you watch them

02:03:50   is you have to have an Apple Music subscription.

02:03:52   So I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it is.

02:03:54   But what I'm talking about is something like PlayStation VUE,

02:03:58   where you pay Sony $20 a month or something like that,

02:04:02   or $30 a month, and you get like 40 cable TV channels

02:04:06   that you can watch whenever you want.

02:04:08   It's a tremendous deal.

02:04:10   It really is.

02:04:12   Have you done it?

02:04:13   No.

02:04:15   But I seriously thought about it.

02:04:19   The main reason we don't is that we have a TiVo, a nice TiVo.

02:04:23   And I love the TiVo interface.

02:04:26   And my wife loves it even more and is super, super comfortable

02:04:29   and familiar with it.

02:04:31   And the one thing that is so great about TiVo--

02:04:35   and I feel like people who don't have it maybe

02:04:37   don't understand it, because they're like, well,

02:04:39   I get a DVR from my cable provider

02:04:40   or my PlayStation works as a DVR.

02:04:45   The amazing thing about TiVo-- do you have a minute for an aside,

02:04:48   Jim?

02:04:48   Yeah.

02:04:49   is I first saw Tivo in the year 2000, I think.

02:04:54   It might have been 1999, but it was 2000

02:05:00   at Rich Siegel's house.

02:05:02   This is when I was, it was either when I was interviewing

02:05:05   to go work for him at Barebone Software

02:05:07   or right after I took the job and Amy and I moved up there

02:05:10   and Rich invited us down to his house.

02:05:13   And I even remember what we were watching.

02:05:17   It was, this is around 2000,

02:05:19   so this is when the Yankees were on that run

02:05:20   with Derek Jeter.

02:05:21   See, it all comes full circle.

02:05:23   And he invited us down.

02:05:23   Even though Rich is a diehard Red Sox fan,

02:05:26   as any New Englander should be,

02:05:28   he invited my wife and I to his house to watch the Yankees.

02:05:32   And he had a TiVo.

02:05:34   And it blew, I'd heard of it.

02:05:37   I had heard of TiVo.

02:05:38   And it sounded good.

02:05:40   Oh, you can pause live TV

02:05:42   and you can fast forward commercials and whatever.

02:05:45   But seeing it in action was just,

02:05:47   It was like seeing the Mac for the first time.

02:05:50   Amy and I went out and bought a TiVo the next day.

02:05:52   I mean, it was that type of thing.

02:05:56   But the amazing thing about TiVo,

02:05:58   and the way the industry has gone,

02:06:00   is what TiVo was is it was a computer running

02:06:03   Linux that took your TV signals and wrote them

02:06:05   to digital files on hard disk, and then presented

02:06:10   an interface on screen.

02:06:11   And so it computerized an analog thing.

02:06:15   You took an analog cable TV signal, computerized it,

02:06:19   and you have your computer there.

02:06:20   And then with that computer, you can fast forward commercials,

02:06:24   and you can pause the show anywhere you want.

02:06:26   And it's a fast enough interface.

02:06:29   Navigating which show do you want to watch

02:06:32   or how do you set up a subscription on TiVo

02:06:35   is notoriously slow.

02:06:36   They kind of have a bad system user interface.

02:06:39   But the actual video playback interface

02:06:43   the best I've ever seen still to this day in terms of when you fast forward you

02:06:48   there's never any buffering at all ever and this goes back to the year 2000 and

02:06:54   Let alone today with the you know newer Tivo hardware

02:06:58   and so

02:07:00   computerizing TV let you skip commercials

02:07:03   and the thing that to me is so ironic about

02:07:07   computerization of TV today and everybody watching through

02:07:11   PlayStations or Apple TVs or AirPlay over your phone or whatever

02:07:15   is

02:07:16   That what they've largely done is made it so you can't skip the commercials

02:07:21   By computerizing it like you go and you watch a show on HBO go

02:07:25   There's actually I think HBO lets you fast-forward them

02:07:29   But there are some of the ones where they show you that it's often a commercial for another show on the same service

02:07:34   But you can't skip it

02:07:36   And when you watch on Hulu and they have regular commercial commercials like you're watching a show on Hulu

02:07:41   And there's like a bounty paper towels commercial you hit fast forward and it goes bonk bonk bonk

02:07:46   And you've you're stuck watching that 30-second spot

02:07:49   YouTube has unskippable commercials right or or you have tense you have to watch at least 10 seconds of this before you can skip

02:07:57   TiVo let's never ever ever ever ever ever has an unskippable ad it is your fast forward button

02:08:06   and always works.

02:08:07   - Even on demand?

02:08:08   - I don't know, I don't watch on demand on TiVo.

02:08:12   - Okay.

02:08:13   - Maybe not, but maybe if they write it to disk,

02:08:16   I don't know.

02:08:17   - Yeah, they are very good.

02:08:20   TiVo was always one of those companies

02:08:22   that I was always surprised

02:08:23   that they weren't more successful.

02:08:26   - I was too, I still am,

02:08:27   and I feel like it's sort of a product marketing

02:08:30   that they just never really had to go to market.

02:08:31   And Steve Jobs has explained this,

02:08:33   that it's a hard sell when people are already paying

02:08:37   $100 a month to their cable company.

02:08:39   And the cable company with that gives you a quote unquote,

02:08:42   "free box" that puts the TV on your TV,

02:08:46   the shows on your TV.

02:08:47   It's a really hard sell to tell them

02:08:49   to spend an extra $300 on a better box.

02:08:52   - Yep.

02:08:53   - But boy, we really like TiVo.

02:08:55   And that's really, if it wasn't for TiVo,

02:08:58   if our TiVo broke and we couldn't buy a new TiVo,

02:09:00   I would almost, we would almost certainly switch

02:09:02   PlayStation Vue. Really? I think so. Hmm. And at least in Philadelphia, PlayStation Vue, and I know

02:09:10   that this is one of those weird things that varies by city, it gets all the major ABC, NBC, CBS type

02:09:15   things. I think I have friends in Boston who it's like they don't get, if you have PlayStation Vue,

02:09:20   you don't get ABC or something like that. Yes, that's right. Yeah. But boy, TiVo keeps us on

02:09:27   on cable.

02:09:27   And it's funny because the Comcast here,

02:09:31   it's like they hate supporting TiVo.

02:09:33   They kind of give you the stink eye when you call them up

02:09:36   and you want-- you got to get these special cable cards.

02:09:40   But they shouldn't because I'll tell you what, TiVo is the one

02:09:42   and only thing keeping us on Comcast cable.

02:09:45   Because it's such a great experience.

02:09:47   And that you never, ever, ever-- every time

02:09:49   I have an unskippable commercial on any other thing,

02:09:51   it makes me furiously angry.

02:09:53   Because the computerization of TV

02:09:55   should give me the ability to do it, right?

02:09:58   It's-- - Yeah, yeah.

02:09:59   But it won't.

02:10:00   - The whole reason you couldn't skip commercials

02:10:03   before DVRs was that you couldn't time travel, right?

02:10:07   The TV was on, the Cosby Show came on at eight o'clock

02:10:11   and the commercial came on at 807.

02:10:13   And there was no way to get back to the Cosby Show

02:10:15   other than to wait through the commercials.

02:10:18   - Yeah, I remember those days, yeah.

02:10:21   - So anyway, that's what keeps me on.

02:10:23   What were we talking about, WWDC?

02:10:27   - WWDC.

02:10:28   - Anything else that we expect?

02:10:29   Apple TV is a maybe, but it seems like content would be,

02:10:33   that's where we were.

02:10:34   It was content would be the thing to announce,

02:10:36   and it doesn't seem like there's any leaks about content.

02:10:39   - No.

02:10:39   I do expect that there'll be some Apple Music updates.

02:10:45   - Yes, I do too.

02:10:47   It's too important to them not to have updates.

02:10:50   - Yes, and they've done, from the announcement,

02:10:55   they did a DubDC, which was huge.

02:10:58   They did updates last year to Apple Music,

02:11:02   you know, a new interface, all that.

02:11:04   And this year I expect more.

02:11:08   - Yeah, it seems like they're slightly behind schedule

02:11:10   on their shows, like Carpool Karaoke and Planet of the Apps

02:11:13   were supposed to be out in the spring.

02:11:16   And I think Carpool Karaoke in particular

02:11:17   was at one point quoted as saying it would come out

02:11:20   April and obviously isn't out yet. So I wouldn't be surprised if we hear updates

02:11:24   about them and they surely must be coming very soon. I also wouldn't be

02:11:28   surprised if they have a handful of other shows to announce because that's

02:11:32   the sort of thing that they can keep secret where they're not talking to HBO

02:11:36   and they're not talking to Showtime they're talking to one team of producers

02:11:42   and stars and whoever and saying we'll produce your show but you got to keep

02:11:47   your mouse shutter, the deal's off.

02:11:49   - Yep.

02:11:50   - You know, I wouldn't be surprised

02:11:51   if they have something like that.

02:11:52   - I agree.

02:11:55   I, that's, you know, if there's one app in all of this

02:12:00   that I expect to see majorly updated,

02:12:03   and you know, that's just based on

02:12:05   what they've done in the past,

02:12:06   and how important it is to them.

02:12:08   So, that I definitely expect to see updated.

02:12:13   - Let me think, what else?

02:12:15   Doesn't seem it seems like that's a lot.

02:12:19   It seems like we're at the end of the show, but it still feels like there could be more

02:12:22   that they could announce.

02:12:23   Well, I don't know.

02:12:25   Are there any surprises?

02:12:26   Are there any winners out there that, you know, I think, I think the only real surprise

02:12:33   that I would be surprised with is if they did one of these Siri boxes.

02:12:37   Yeah, that would be a surprise for me.

02:12:42   But not a shock.

02:12:44   shock but I'd be surprised if it came at WDC. Right, like if they announced that they are making

02:12:49   a self-driving car that would be a shock because they're right it would right it would be oh my

02:12:54   god this is crazy because everything we've heard is that if they're even if they're still sort of

02:12:58   working on that it's like a six seven year out thing you know yeah yeah if Tim rolls out on a

02:13:04   self in a self-driving car out on stage yeah that'll be um what about the rumor there's a

02:13:10   rumor that iOS 11 has a significant user interface refresh. I don't think anybody would expect it to

02:13:16   be as radical as iOS 7 was from iOS 6. Right. It a little bit, but I think the rumor is more or less

02:13:24   that it's more significant than the 7 to 8, 8 to 9, and 9 to 10. That would make sense. I mean,

02:13:34   I'm never, I would never say no to a software refresh,

02:13:39   the look and feel of it, because Apple just does that.

02:13:44   I mean, look at the OS releases over the years.

02:13:47   They've always kind of put a little different spin

02:13:51   on things.

02:13:52   - And three, so let's see, iOS 7,

02:13:56   and one year later it was eight, nine, 10.

02:13:59   So this will be four years after iOS 7 first was unveiled.

02:14:03   And that feels like the right number of years for a more significant, you know, like not just touch-up paint, but a new coat of paint.

02:14:12   And it's also the sort of thing that I think Apple has gotten better than ever in the company's history at keeping secret.

02:14:23   It's true.

02:14:24   iOS 7 leaked, but only ever so slightly. I was just talking about this with a friend the other day and I looked it up.

02:14:30   Mark Gurman had a couple of descriptions of it and then like a week or two before

02:14:37   WWDC Seth Weintraub of 9to5Mac, it wasn't Gurman it was Seth Weintraub at 9to5Mac,

02:14:44   commissioned, he got to see somebody who worked at Apple showed iOS 7 to him, this is like late May

02:14:53   of that year, and then he commissioned an artist to recreate what he saw. And I

02:15:02   should put this, I'm gonna put this initial at 9 to 5 Mac leak on iOS 7. And

02:15:09   those mock-ups were incredibly accurate, but it wasn't the whole interface. It was

02:15:14   just like the home screen, and so he had like the flat flatter look of the icons

02:15:18   and stuff like that. And so he and his source wouldn't let him use a screenshot

02:15:22   shot because he was afraid that they were like watermarked and he'd get fired

02:15:25   or something like that so there was a little bit of iowa7 that leaked but the

02:15:30   overall look of it and the you know like the lack of buttons you know like

02:15:35   remember the old back buttons that were buttons and then they just changed it

02:15:38   and it's just a chevron that stuff didn't leak no and they did a good job

02:15:44   well I wouldn't be surprised if there is a fairly significant refresh with iOS 11

02:15:49   and I wouldn't be surprised if they've kept it

02:15:51   completely under wraps, 'cause I think it's the sort of thing

02:15:54   that they would do with a very small team.

02:15:57   And the parts of it that they, you know,

02:16:03   the hard work of rolling it out to all of the apps

02:16:05   and everything can be done in between WWDC

02:16:09   and September when it ships.

02:16:10   - Yes.

02:16:12   - Like, you can't keep it secret until it ships,

02:16:13   but you can keep it secret until it's announced at WWDC.

02:16:16   - Yep. - Is what I'm trying to say.

02:16:19   anything else that you expect to see?

02:16:20   - I think we hit everything.

02:16:28   - I think, how about this?

02:16:30   How about the over under?

02:16:33   Would you bet on whether we see,

02:16:36   how many Apple, how many speakers on stage

02:16:40   who we've never seen in a keynote before?

02:16:42   I'm gonna put that number,

02:16:46   I'm gonna put the over under number at two.

02:16:48   that we'll see at least two people on stage in a speaking role,

02:16:54   not, in other words, not just like driving the demo silently while somebody else talks.

02:17:00   Two people come out to speak who we've never seen before.

02:17:03   From Apple or third party companies?

02:17:06   From Apple, only counting Apple employees.

02:17:08   Apple employees, okay.

02:17:15   I'm looking over our list here that we made of devices.

02:17:20   So we'll probably get an, okay, I'll go under.

02:17:26   - Or maybe, maybe I'm putting too much emphasis

02:17:31   on never before, and maybe, you know,

02:17:35   people like Susan Prescott and Boz,

02:17:38   what's her name Boz, the Apple Music Lady, who's fabulous.

02:17:44   I just know her as Boz.

02:17:46   - Yep.

02:17:46   - If there is Apple Music News,

02:17:49   you know she's coming out because she's way too awesome.

02:17:53   - Yeah, she'll be there.

02:17:55   - You follow her on Instagram?

02:17:57   I follow her on Instagram.

02:17:58   She's amazing on Instagram.

02:18:00   - I don't.

02:18:02   - Bazoma St. John is her name.

02:18:05   Everybody just calls her Boz though.

02:18:06   - Boz.

02:18:07   - Yeah, and I think that sort of scratches the same itch

02:18:12   of the same people coming out over and over again.

02:18:14   You know, Schiller hasn't been on stage

02:18:17   for the WWDC keynote in two years.

02:18:19   - I like it when Schiller's up there.

02:18:24   - I love it when he's up there,

02:18:25   but I kinda like this thing

02:18:28   where it's only for the products now and not for WWDC.

02:18:31   - Yeah, but if they do,

02:18:35   I love seeing Phil introduce products.

02:18:40   - Well, if they have a MacBook, who else would do it?

02:18:42   That's interesting.

02:18:43   - Yeah, but I think he can introduce more than that.

02:18:47   - Right.

02:18:47   - I just, to me, the keynote kinda seems empty without Phil.

02:18:52   - Yeah.

02:18:53   What about a Jeff Williams announcement?

02:18:56   I wouldn't be surprised if there's another, you know,

02:18:58   like a, those, like the medical research initiatives,

02:19:03   you know what I mean? - Yes.

02:19:04   - Like those sort of things.

02:19:05   - That's what he's in charge of, yep.

02:19:07   - Well, he's, (laughs)

02:19:08   - Jeff Williams is in charge of an awful lot of shit.

02:19:11   (laughing)

02:19:13   Do you know what I mean?

02:19:15   Sometimes I have trouble just getting two meals a day

02:19:19   I have a lot of trouble.

02:19:23   I look at the stuff on Jeff Williams' plate

02:19:25   and I wonder how he ever sleeps.

02:19:26   - I know.

02:19:28   - I wouldn't be surprised if some of that stuff too.

02:19:30   - Never be surprised with that.

02:19:33   I mean they typically do retail updates.

02:19:38   - Oh, oh, there's a good one.

02:19:40   First appearance on stage by Angela Arnts.

02:19:43   Oh, I'll take the over on that.

02:19:46   I feel like this could be it

02:19:47   because there's so much going on with the stores right now.

02:19:51   - Yeah. - Ooh, I'm gonna call it.

02:19:52   I'm calling it.

02:19:53   I'm gonna bet money on Angela Arnts on stage.

02:19:57   - Okay, I'll agree with that.

02:19:59   - And there's our first of never before

02:20:03   in a speaking role in a keynote.

02:20:05   - That's one.

02:20:06   too much-- the Apple Today stuff is too big of a deal.

02:20:09   My impression of that Apple Today stuff--

02:20:11   we didn't talk about it, but we could wrap the show with it--

02:20:15   I don't know if it's going to work out.

02:20:18   I don't know.

02:20:18   Maybe it'll turn out to be a bust.

02:20:20   But I think that this is the reason, if you ask,

02:20:25   well, why would a woman who's the CEO of a major retailer

02:20:29   like Burberry take the-- at least at the titular level,

02:20:33   the reduction in title from CEO to senior vice president

02:20:39   to work at a company.

02:20:41   And I think that this is the answer to that.

02:20:44   This is her sort of putting her stamp on Apple's retail

02:20:49   strategy.

02:20:50   Yeah.

02:20:51   I think it's a huge deal.

02:20:53   I could totally see that being something

02:20:55   that she would get up on stage and talk about.

02:20:57   I mean, the other way they would do it

02:20:58   would be to show a movie about it.

02:21:01   but I wouldn't be surprised if she gets up on stage to talk about it.

02:21:04   Me neither. And I also think that

02:21:08   we'll see something about the environment.

02:21:10   Mmm.

02:21:12   Yeah, I can see that too.

02:21:13   They typically do that, you know, they—

02:21:15   Yeah.

02:21:17   So, I, yeah, it's hard to say. I could definitely see the show.

02:21:20   And they're also doing a lot of work on reconfiguring the shows.

02:21:24   I mean, not the shows, the stores.

02:21:27   The floor layout. There's an awful lot of Apple stores right now that are under renovation.

02:21:30   Yes. Yes. And some of them, they're putting a theater back.

02:21:35   Yeah. Right. What goes around goes around.

02:21:38   Yeah. Times change.

02:21:39   Yeah. The other thing I think they're doing is, it would be interesting to ask Angela

02:21:45   Arntz about it, you know, is what my curiosity is that the big trend overall is that retail

02:21:54   is fading. There's, you know, there's an awful lot of malls in the country that have an awful

02:21:58   lot of empty stores and more as more stuff is being purchased online a lot of the lower range malls are

02:22:06   empty or emptying and there's an opportunity i think apple in some a lot of places is upgrading

02:22:13   from to bigger footprint stores so that they can do things like put a theater space in and have

02:22:18   more space devoted to these apple today initiatives it would be interesting to find out if that's if

02:22:26   if that's something that they see as an opportunity

02:22:28   or is it something they see as a problem

02:22:29   because even if the Apple store is doing well,

02:22:32   if the rest of the mall is empty,

02:22:35   it eventually catches up to Apple.

02:22:37   - Well, it will, but I think that most of Apple's locations

02:22:42   are standalone stores, you know, their destinations.

02:22:47   - Oh, I don't think so.

02:22:48   Well. - Really?

02:22:49   - No, I think out of, there's close to 500 of them

02:22:52   and I think most of them are in malls.

02:22:55   - Huh.

02:22:57   - The urban ones obviously aren't.

02:22:59   The ones in cities like here in Philadelphia and New York.

02:23:02   But I think that around the world

02:23:05   that most of them are in malls.

02:23:07   And I don't know that there's any way around that.

02:23:09   - Yeah, I suppose.

02:23:11   - But anyway, long story short,

02:23:13   I do think that, and I think that it is a deliberate

02:23:16   and perhaps very smart attempt to take advantage

02:23:18   of one thing that Apple has

02:23:20   that none of their competing companies have,

02:23:22   which is a venue for face-to-face human relationships

02:23:26   between people who work for Apple and the customers.

02:23:31   Nobody else has that.

02:23:36   I mean, Amazon is obviously tinkling with little bookstores

02:23:40   and like the cool little convenience store

02:23:42   where there's nobody who works there.

02:23:44   - Right.

02:23:45   - So they're tinkering with retail.

02:23:47   But even there, Amazon's most interesting experiment

02:23:50   physical retail is a store where there are no employees.

02:23:53   And the whole Apple Today initiative

02:23:56   is central around you learning from and talking

02:24:01   to human beings who work for Apple.

02:24:04   It's the human relationship.

02:24:06   Yeah, I mean, they have those features where you can check

02:24:08   out of the Apple Store using the app on the phone

02:24:10   without ever talking to anybody.

02:24:12   But the whole point of Apple Today, it seems to me,

02:24:15   is about human-to-human relationships.

02:24:18   Yeah.

02:24:19   and nobody else has that.

02:24:21   - They do not.

02:24:22   And I don't know that they want it.

02:24:25   - No, I don't think so either.

02:24:26   I think Apple's the only company who even sees it

02:24:28   as something that they want.

02:24:30   I don't think Google wants to ever come in contact with--

02:24:33   - Oh, God, no.

02:24:34   I don't wanna do that.

02:24:36   - Just interact with Google by talking to your device.

02:24:41   (laughing)

02:24:42   I really do.

02:24:43   - Don't worry, they're listening.

02:24:45   - Yeah.

02:24:46   All right, Jim.

02:24:48   - All right, anything else you wanted to talk about

02:24:50   before we sign off?

02:24:51   - No, it's great.

02:24:52   - All right, everybody can read your fine stuff,

02:24:54   the work of you and your colleagues,

02:24:57   Sean King and Dave Mark over at excellent website,

02:25:01   loopinsight.com, the loop.

02:25:05   And then on Twitter, you're Jdow Rumple.

02:25:08   - I am.

02:25:09   - I will see you soon.

02:25:11   I love it when somebody's on the show and I can say that.

02:25:14   - Yeah, yeah, and what, a week and a half or so?

02:25:17   - Something like that.

02:25:18   All right, see you soon, Jim.

02:25:20   - See you, John.