The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Jim, where are you John?

00:00:01 ◼   ► I'm pretty good.

00:00:03 ◼   ► We just had a long pre show talk about.

00:00:08 ◼   ► How about they pretty put?

00:00:11 ◼   ► Yeah, in the context of this show, let's just say

00:00:14 ◼   ► let's just summarize it all is it's good.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Yes, it's um.

00:00:16 ◼   ► I have to take you to task for something.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Alright, please do.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Is anybody ever done that first thing

00:00:21 ◼   ► like right off the bat?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Well, they should.

00:00:26 ◼   ► OK, well I'm going to.

00:00:27 ◼   ► The correct answer.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Is Sean Connery always always Sean Connery?

00:00:34 ◼   ► I would have thought I would have thought that you might be a Roger Moore man.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Oh, Sean Connery.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I would if you ask me who my favorite bond is,

00:00:43 ◼   ► I would still say Sean Connery and and his bond movies altogether are my favorite,

00:00:49 ◼   ► favorites and From Russia with Love in

00:00:52 ◼   ► particular would be my answer to my favorite Bond movie.

00:00:56 ◼   ► But I have a soft spot for Roger Moore and I like Daniel Craig as well and I

00:01:03 ◼   ► like Pierce Brosnan in the role. I just feel like the producers let those

00:01:09 ◼   ► movies sort of get away and they made bad movies with a good actor

00:01:13 ◼   ► for Bond. Yeah I agree with that. But anytime, you know what I think it is to

00:01:20 ◼   ► be honest? My father didn't like Roger Moore. Yeah my dad did not either. And

00:01:25 ◼   ► I think that's probably the reason, you know, you grow up with that and I think that was probably it.

00:01:32 ◼   ► But as an adult, I just love everything Sean Connery does. And I could sit and listen to him

00:01:37 ◼   ► talk, you know, just forever. So...

00:01:40 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, as a kid who was born in the early '70s, for me, it was very, very... I think even

00:01:47 ◼   ► now in hindsight, right now in 2017, you can look back and you can see that the Connery Bond movies

00:01:53 ◼   ► look like the 60s and the Moore ones look like the 70s.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Um, but to me as a kid in the late 70s,

00:02:02 ◼   ► when I first started watching them, it,

00:02:05 ◼   ► it was the difference between these look fresh,

00:02:09 ◼   ► like these look like new movies and the Connery ones look old and old as a kid

00:02:14 ◼   ► is just never a good thing. And I liked, you know,

00:02:18 ◼   ► I think they were actually were in some ways,

00:02:21 ◼   ► I think part of it too is that the Roger Moore movies were a little bit more meant for kids.

00:02:25 ◼   ► You know, that the, I think so. I think that the emphasis on stunts and some of the silliness,

00:02:31 ◼   ► you know, the, you know, there were more gags. It wasn't just, you know, I think the only real

00:02:37 ◼   ► funny things in the Connery ones were when Connery would just say something funny,

00:02:40 ◼   ► which was great. We'll just let Sean talk. But like in the Roger Moore one, so for example,

00:02:49 ◼   ► And if you look at--

00:02:52 ◼   ► I know that back in the day when Dan Benjamin and I did

00:02:55 ◼   ► the thing on the show where we ran through each--

00:02:57 ◼   ► at the end of every episode for 23 episodes in a row,

00:03:01 ◼   ► we'd review one of the Bond movies in order.

00:03:04 ◼   ► And when you watch him in order, you

00:03:06 ◼   ► pick things up that you don't see otherwise.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Like during the Moore era, there was a running gag

00:03:11 ◼   ► between the movies where there was the same guy--

00:03:14 ◼   ► I forget who he was.

00:03:14 ◼   ► He was like a producer or something like that.

00:03:16 ◼   ► But one of the producers of the movie

00:03:18 ◼   ► would make a cameo in a scene.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And something crazy would happen,

00:03:23 ◼   ► where Bond would shoot down the ski slopes

00:03:27 ◼   ► and burst right through a building through the wall.

00:03:30 ◼   ► And then there's the guy with a glass of wine.

00:03:33 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:03:36 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:03:37 ◼   ► He just looks at his glass of wine like, am I drunk

00:03:39 ◼   ► or did that just happen?

00:03:40 ◼   ► And the best one is--

00:03:42 ◼   ► I think it actually is pretty funny.

00:03:44 ◼   ► It's in The Spy Who Loves Me.

00:03:46 ◼   ► and Bond is driving the Lotus submarine car

00:03:50 ◼   ► and comes out of the ocean on a beach full of sunbathers

00:03:56 ◼   ► and he drives right out of the ocean

00:03:59 ◼   ► and there's the guy with a glass of wine on the beach

00:04:01 ◼   ► and he just looks at the glass of wine like,

00:04:04 ◼   ► Jesus Christ, am I fucked up or did I just see a car

00:04:07 ◼   ► drive out of the ocean?

00:04:09 ◼   ► I love that, that's great.

00:04:12 ◼   ► And that's the sort of thing that just,

00:04:14 ◼   ► it would have never worked in the Connery movies.

00:04:18 ◼   ► And I think it's obviously a little childish

00:04:20 ◼   ► to have a submarine car that drives out of the ocean

00:04:24 ◼   ► onto a beach.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Well, I'm with you.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Connery was the best.

00:04:29 ◼   ► But more, I think you've got to give him credit.

00:04:32 ◼   ► And I really do think you have to give him credit.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Because what he did was he in no way shaped--

00:04:36 ◼   ► he was totally comfortable with not being as good as Connery.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Like, you know what I mean?

00:04:43 ◼   ► he didn't try to be Sean Connery, he didn't try to outdo Sean Connery, he just was himself,

00:04:48 ◼   ► and he was very, very comfortable as Roger Moore's James Bond.

00:04:52 ◼   ► That's a good point. That is a good point. You wouldn't want somebody coming in

00:04:57 ◼   ► trying to be the guy before him. He did make it his own. And I think that that's what turned it

00:05:06 ◼   ► into this franchise that can span 40, 50 years and is ongoing, is it more made it possible

00:05:14 ◼   ► for them to do three or four or five pictures with an actor in the role and then not really

00:05:20 ◼   ► reboot it, but sort of semi reboot it. You know, and the more one in particular, they

00:05:26 ◼   ► didn't recast any of the other roles. The same guy played M, the same guy played Q,

00:05:30 ◼   ► the same woman played many Moneypenny, but he was not the same guy. He was James Bond,

00:05:35 ◼   ► but he was not the same James Bond.

00:05:36 ◼   ► And he somehow made it work.

00:05:38 ◼   ► And it turned it into a different kind of franchise.

00:05:43 ◼   ► - Well, he was the longest running one, right?

00:05:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, definitely.

00:05:47 ◼   ► He made six movies and it spans 1972, I think,

00:05:52 ◼   ► was when, it was either '72 or '73,

00:05:55 ◼   ► when Live and Let Die came out.

00:05:59 ◼   ► That was his first one.

00:06:01 ◼   ► And then he did Man with the Golden Gun,

00:06:04 ◼   ► which was his worst one

00:06:05 ◼   ► and one of the worst Bond movies ever made.

00:06:07 ◼   ► I mean, he ends up fighting a midget at the end.

00:06:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:06:11 ◼   ► He does, he ends up fighting Herpe Villages.

00:06:14 ◼   ► - Okay, we can just end the podcast right now.

00:06:17 ◼   ► What a note to end it on right there.

00:06:19 ◼   ► - Then came his best movie, "The Spy Who Loved Me."

00:06:23 ◼   ► Then came "Moonraker," which I think when Dan and I

00:06:27 ◼   ► reviewed them, I sort of pooh-poohed

00:06:29 ◼   ► because of all the silly space stuff at the end.

00:06:31 ◼   ► But I've since come around, and especially up until the space

00:06:35 ◼   ► stuff, it's a really solid Roger Moore Bond movie.

00:06:39 ◼   ► Then came-- this is all off the top of my head.

00:06:41 ◼   ► This is how good I have these memorized.

00:06:44 ◼   ► For Your Eyes Only, which is not good.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And then came Octopussy, which is a great title.

00:06:54 ◼   ► And then this last one was A View to a Kill,

00:06:57 ◼   ► which he was pretty old for.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Because one of the things people don't realize

00:07:00 ◼   ► Moore is actually older, was older, last week, just talk about him in the past tense, was

00:07:05 ◼   ► older than Sean Connery. So they replaced Sean Connery with an actor who was already

00:07:09 ◼   ► a couple of, like, I don't know, like nine months older than Sean Connery. So they didn't

00:07:14 ◼   ► recast it younger when they replaced him with Moore. And, you know, I remember as a kid

00:07:20 ◼   ► when When a View to a Kill came out, I was like 12 or 13 or something like that. And

00:07:24 ◼   ► all of the reviews mentioned how old Roger Moore was. It was just, it's just what they

00:07:29 ◼   ► But if you watch it, it kind of holds up.

00:07:32 ◼   ► And I don't think that they were pretending that he was a young man.

00:07:35 ◼   ► You know, it's like, well, Bond is 55 years old and he's still on the service. So what?

00:07:41 ◼   ► Yeah, they never did make much of a big case about that. I mean, Bond was just cool.

00:07:48 ◼   ► You know, he can do all this crazy stuff because he's Bond.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Doesn't matter how old he is, he's good looking, he's Bond, he gets lots of women.

00:07:58 ◼   ► That's that's the character.

00:08:00 ◼   ► And he likes to drive fast cars.

00:08:04 ◼   ► He likes to drive fast cars with all kinds of toys.

00:08:06 ◼   ► Oil slicks and machine guns and submarines.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Yep.

00:08:11 ◼   ► That almost sounds like you.

00:08:15 ◼   ► That's your life right there.

00:08:18 ◼   ► Martini's.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Martini's.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:21 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:24 ◼   ► But now it really does seem before we get off it, it really does seem to.

00:08:28 ◼   ► I wrote I linked a whole you know everybody knows I love bond

00:08:30 ◼   ► So why not when when Roger Moore dies spend a week with lots of links?

00:08:35 ◼   ► He just seems like he was a genuinely great guy

00:08:39 ◼   ► He really did devote the last few decades of his life to UNICEF, which is a great cause

00:08:45 ◼   ► He really did seem to care and and you know like that

00:08:50 ◼   ► There was this story that some guy passed around and it seems legit because he's got the autograph about

00:08:54 ◼   ► When he was a seven did you see that that story I posted where he was a seven-year-old and he met Roger Moore in an

00:09:00 ◼   ► Airport in 1983. I didn't see that one. Okay, so for those you missed it. This is great story

00:09:05 ◼   ► Alright, I will put it in the show notes. I

00:09:08 ◼   ► Swear to god

00:09:12 ◼   ► So this kid

00:09:15 ◼   ► is

00:09:16 ◼   ► Seven years old 1983. He's in an airport in in nice. I don't know how you pronounce it. Then I see nice nice

00:09:22 ◼   ► and he's with his grandfather and he said this is like before there were like first class lounges

00:09:31 ◼   ► and he's just sitting there right at the airport terminal is Roger Moore reading a newspaper and

00:09:36 ◼   ► he says oh my god granddad that's that's James Bond and his grandfather has no idea who James

00:09:42 ◼   ► Bond is no idea who Roger Moore is but he knows his kid is very excited and this man is very

00:09:46 ◼   ► famous and he says would you like me to introduce you to him and he goes yeah yeah yeah so the

00:09:50 ◼   ► grandfather walks up and he goes, "Excuse me, sir. My son says you're very famous.

00:09:55 ◼   ► We don't mean to bother you, but would you mind signing the back of his

00:10:00 ◼   ► plane ticket?" And Roger Moore, he says, is very gracious and said, "Oh, it would be my

00:10:04 ◼   ► pleasure." He folds down the newspaper and takes a pen and he asks him his name

00:10:07 ◼   ► and writes a little thing, "Timothy, good luck. Best wishes, Roger Moore."

00:10:12 ◼   ► And the kid walks away and the kid said, "I didn't really read Cursive at

00:10:15 ◼   ► the time, but I could kind of read it and I could tell that whatever he signed his

00:10:20 ◼   ► name it didn't say James Bond. And he says, "Grandpa, Granddad, what does this say?" And he says,

00:10:26 ◼   ► "Best wishes, Timmy, to, you know, Roger Moore." And he goes, "That's not his name, his name's James Bond!"

00:10:31 ◼   ► And now the kid thinks that, now the kid's granddad thinks that maybe Roger Moore is an

00:10:36 ◼   ► asshole and like pranked the kid. And he went up to him and said, "Hey, my kid says that's not the right

00:10:40 ◼   ► name, that your name is James Bond." And the kid says, "Roger Moore just looked at him and he

00:10:46 ◼   ► had him, you know, and he gave him that Roger Moore raised eyebrow and had him come close,

00:10:51 ◼   ► and he whispered to the kid, "My name is James Bond, but when I'm traveling I must use a fake name."

00:10:57 ◼   ► Oh my god! And he says, "Now you know, and I know, but you must keep this between us." And the kid

00:11:08 ◼   ► just walked off and said, "All of a sudden, instead of having the wrong autograph on a ticket, I was

00:11:12 ◼   ► on a mission with James Bond.

00:11:14 ◼   ► Wow.

00:11:16 ◼   ► And then the kid grew up and worked in the film industry

00:11:19 ◼   ► and was on the set.

00:11:20 ◼   ► It was doing a TV commercial for UNICEF

00:11:22 ◼   ► where Roger Moore was going to be there.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Now the kid's like 30 years old.

00:11:25 ◼   ► It's 20 years later.

00:11:27 ◼   ► And during the day, he walked up to him and said,

00:11:31 ◼   ► hey, you probably won't remember me.

00:11:32 ◼   ► But back in 1983, I was seven years old and niece,

00:11:36 ◼   ► and I met you at the airport.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And he told Roger Moore the story.

00:11:40 ◼   ► And Roger Moore laughs and says, I don't remember that,

00:11:42 ◼   ► but that sounds like me, you know.

00:11:44 ◼   ► It's very nice to see you again.

00:11:46 ◼   ► And then they shoot this commercial,

00:11:47 ◼   ► and at the end of the day,

00:11:48 ◼   ► the guy's walking down the hallway,

00:11:49 ◼   ► and Roger Moore's leaving as well to go,

00:11:52 ◼   ► his car's gonna pick him up, take him to his hotel.

00:11:54 ◼   ► And Moore says to him in the hallway,

00:11:56 ◼   ► and he goes, "Of course I remembered you,

00:11:58 ◼   ► "but you can't trust those cameramen."

00:12:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:12:01 ◼   ► Any one of them could be working for Spector.

00:12:03 ◼   ► - Oh, wow.

00:12:06 ◼   ► That's great.

00:12:08 ◼   ► What a story.

00:12:10 ◼   ► - And it just seems like Roger Moore

00:12:11 ◼   ► was the type of guy who that sort of thing came naturally to.

00:12:13 ◼   ► And you just know that eyebrow.

00:12:15 ◼   ► When he says that he raised his eyebrow, you just know the look, right?

00:12:18 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:12:20 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:12:21 ◼   ► What a great comeback.

00:12:22 ◼   ► You know?

00:12:23 ◼   ► So great.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Of course, I'm James Bond.

00:12:26 ◼   ► All right, let's take a break here.

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00:14:58 ◼   ► - Ah, got some good coffee here, Jim.

00:15:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

00:15:04 ◼   ► - I think it's very obvious what we want to talk about

00:15:05 ◼   ► just in the noodling before the show is it's,

00:15:09 ◼   ► here it is, we're recording on May 25th,

00:15:11 ◼   ► WWDC is coming up fast.

00:15:13 ◼   ► Let's talk about what we expect at WWDC.

00:15:16 ◼   ► - Well--

00:15:17 ◼   ► - I mean, that's a show right there, right?

00:15:18 ◼   ► - There's definitely gonna be new iPhones,

00:15:22 ◼   ► brand new design with lasers.

00:15:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:15:27 ◼   ► Okay, so--

00:15:30 ◼   ► - What would James Bond have on his iPhone today?

00:15:35 ◼   ► This is a serious question, because we actually--

00:15:38 ◼   ► our iPhones and our Apple watches--

00:15:40 ◼   ► I actually almost called it an iWatch there,

00:15:43 ◼   ► which I never do.

00:15:45 ◼   ► And our Apple watches are like James Bond gadgets.

00:15:47 ◼   ► I mean, I've said this before.

00:15:49 ◼   ► I put it in my initial Apple Watch review,

00:15:52 ◼   ► where Roger Moore in this "By Who Loved Me"

00:15:55 ◼   ► has a little digital watch.

00:15:56 ◼   ► It's a Seiko, and it gives him secure text messages

00:16:00 ◼   ► from MI6 headquarters, except instead of showing them

00:16:03 ◼   ► on the screen, it prints them out on ticker tape.

00:16:06 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:08 ◼   ► Like if you think, you know, like where does the spool

00:16:15 ◼   ► of ticker tape go?

00:16:16 ◼   ► - Now that's what I want in my Apple Watch.

00:16:20 ◼   ► I want a ticker tape thing so when my texts come in,

00:16:23 ◼   ► it will print them out.

00:16:23 ◼   ► - Right, like being able to raise your wrist

00:16:27 ◼   ► and see a text message that was sent totally securely,

00:16:31 ◼   ► like an iMessage where it's got end-to-end

00:16:32 ◼   ► encryption is a James Bond feature of was when we were kids now it's something

00:16:38 ◼   ► you can go out and buy for $299 yeah I want that I don't what would James Bond

00:16:43 ◼   ► have on his iPhone that normal people don't have I mean like a switchblade

00:16:47 ◼   ► like you know what do you call it I know you call those zappers like a cattle

00:16:55 ◼   ► prod you know what I mean like the a stun gun type thing like tasers taser

00:16:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I think a taser would be useful

00:17:00 ◼   ► No, he would have to have like a laser or something that he could shoot. Yeah with wouldn't he? I mean, it's got to be something

00:17:07 ◼   ► Yeah, Roger Moore had a laser on his on his watch one minute one of those movies. I think it live and let die

00:17:12 ◼   ► hmm remember that he was jumping on crocodile heads and

00:17:16 ◼   ► As you would you know

00:17:21 ◼   ► No, there's not gonna be an I know iPhones at WWDC correct no

00:17:27 ◼   ► No, no iPhones.

00:17:30 ◼   ► So let's first, let's talk about what we know

00:17:34 ◼   ► is gonna be there, and that's software.

00:17:36 ◼   ► - Right.

00:17:37 ◼   ► - 'Cause it is WWDC.

00:17:38 ◼   ► It is, and that's one thing that people have to remember

00:17:41 ◼   ► going into this.

00:17:42 ◼   ► I would expect that there would be some other things

00:17:46 ◼   ► that they talk about, but software is the big thing.

00:17:48 ◼   ► - Well, and the other thing about software

00:17:50 ◼   ► is that software, and again, I don't want to make light

00:17:54 ◼   ► of the job that Apple's software engineering teams do

00:17:59 ◼   ► as compared to hardware.

00:18:01 ◼   ► But hardware is like a,

00:18:03 ◼   ► if the idea is a complete product

00:18:06 ◼   ► and one aspect of it falls behind schedule,

00:18:10 ◼   ► for the most part that means the whole project is delayed.

00:18:13 ◼   ► So like let's say for example,

00:18:15 ◼   ► there is a new iPhone coming out that has an OLED screen

00:18:19 ◼   ► instead of the LED screens

00:18:21 ◼   ► that the current ones have had to date.

00:18:24 ◼   ► And the whole thing is planned around this.

00:18:26 ◼   ► And at some point, let's say right now,

00:18:28 ◼   ► they find out the supply of OLED that we need,

00:18:31 ◼   ► the exact one we need, it's not going to meet demand.

00:18:34 ◼   ► That might set the whole thing back, maybe.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Or they have to switch it up.

00:18:38 ◼   ► But with a software project like iOS and Mac OS and tvOS

00:18:42 ◼   ► and whatever, they might say, here's

00:18:44 ◼   ► the seven things we want in iOS 11.

00:18:46 ◼   ► And if two of them are like, maybe not ready,

00:18:49 ◼   ► they can just go with the five that are ready and say,

00:18:52 ◼   ► those two that aren't, you know,

00:18:55 ◼   ► we were hoping to get those two out this year,

00:18:56 ◼   ► but we'll do those next year, right?

00:18:59 ◼   ► So the annual nature of the software,

00:19:01 ◼   ► it's more or less just which major features

00:19:06 ◼   ► are gonna, are on schedule, and then they make the cut.

00:19:09 ◼   ► So we're gonna see iOS 11,

00:19:11 ◼   ► we're gonna see Mac OS 10.13.

00:19:14 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, and they'll show us some new features

00:19:19 ◼   ► that are gonna be in there.

00:19:20 ◼   ► There's always a couple of things that people are really looking for.

00:19:25 ◼   ► In recent years, there's been a lot of integration between the two.

00:19:28 ◼   ► And then they'll open up a bunch of new APIs and developers get to work.

00:19:37 ◼   ► And it's funny, I was talking to James Dempsey yesterday or the day before, and

00:19:42 ◼   ► I said, when a lot of the press sit there, we look at the WDC keynote

00:19:50 ◼   ► and they announce, you know, a new iPad or, you know, an iPod in years past and,

00:19:56 ◼   ► and we all clap, but they, they announce, you know, a new API and like 5,000 people start screaming

00:20:03 ◼   ► and clapping and the rest of us are sitting there saying, okay, well, I guess that's a big deal.

00:20:08 ◼   ► Yeah. Like, uh, I think probably the best example of that, that I can remember would be when,

00:20:18 ◼   ► when they announced Swift.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:22 ◼   ► I got it, because I'm a little bit programmer-y enough.

00:20:25 ◼   ► I mean, I have a computer science degree.

00:20:26 ◼   ► I mean, so I know exactly what they meant.

00:20:30 ◼   ► And I know firsthand how polarizing Objective-C is.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Like, it's a weird-- the thing about Objective-C

00:20:41 ◼   ► that's undeniable-- and I think even a non-programmer could

00:20:45 ◼   ► just look at the source code, and you

00:20:46 ◼   ► You see all these square brackets around everything,

00:20:49 ◼   ► and it doesn't look like other programming languages.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Whereas Swift looks a lot like JavaScript and other just sort

00:20:58 ◼   ► of generic programming languages.

00:21:00 ◼   ► It's sort of closer to the ideal of pseudocode.

00:21:05 ◼   ► And man, when they announced Swift,

00:21:07 ◼   ► that we've got an all new programming language that we've

00:21:10 ◼   ► invented, and it's just optimized for Apple stuff,

00:21:14 ◼   ► and it's our language for the future, that room erupted

00:21:18 ◼   ► and the press area was like, what does this mean?

00:21:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:22 ◼   ► Right?

00:21:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's true, absolutely true.

00:21:25 ◼   ► But WDC in a lot of ways is completely different

00:21:29 ◼   ► than the other events that we go to.

00:21:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, totally.

00:21:33 ◼   ► And then the fact that they brought Chris Latner out

00:21:36 ◼   ► to do the introduction was again,

00:21:40 ◼   ► that Chris Latner has since, he left actually

00:21:43 ◼   ► in the last year and now works at Tesla.

00:21:45 ◼   ► But he's been in charge of Apple's programming language

00:21:49 ◼   ► stuff for a long time.

00:21:50 ◼   ► He invented LLVM and CLang.

00:21:53 ◼   ► And he's the original guy who invented Swift before it

00:21:56 ◼   ► became a group project.

00:21:59 ◼   ► He is a rock star in Apple developer circles.

00:22:06 ◼   ► And his reaction to seeing him on stage in the keynote,

00:22:09 ◼   ► not just in the afternoon State of the Tech Union keynote,

00:22:12 ◼   ► with the real keynote, like people were acting like,

00:22:15 ◼   ► you know, Dave Grohl and Foo Fighters came on stage.

00:22:19 ◼   ► They really were though, right?

00:22:20 ◼   ► - They were, yeah, it's absolutely true.

00:22:22 ◼   ► - And the press area is everybody, most of the people,

00:22:25 ◼   ► a lot of the people were like Googling Chris Latner,

00:22:28 ◼   ► you know, and they're like, who the hell is this

00:22:31 ◼   ► and why is he getting this rousing ovation

00:22:33 ◼   ► where he has to wait for everybody to calm down

00:22:36 ◼   ► before he starts talking.

00:22:38 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:22:38 ◼   ► - So what do you--

00:22:40 ◼   ► - But that's who it's for.

00:22:42 ◼   ► That's who this conference is for.

00:22:44 ◼   ► - Well, it's an interesting balance

00:22:47 ◼   ► 'cause it is for the mass market.

00:22:48 ◼   ► Like Apple definitely expects front page news

00:22:51 ◼   ► on newspapers. - Of course, yeah.

00:22:53 ◼   ► - So it is this interesting mix

00:22:55 ◼   ► and they definitely can save a lot of the more technical

00:22:58 ◼   ► stuff for the afternoon keynote.

00:22:59 ◼   ► I mean, I've often said this,

00:23:02 ◼   ► they don't call it a keynote,

00:23:03 ◼   ► they call it the State of the Union,

00:23:05 ◼   ► but the afternoon State of the Union thing

00:23:07 ◼   ► really is the technical keynote.

00:23:10 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:23:12 ◼   ► And so it's interesting when something truly technical,

00:23:14 ◼   ► like a new programming language, is

00:23:15 ◼   ► deemed so important that it makes the morning keynote.

00:23:19 ◼   ► Do you go to that?

00:23:21 ◼   ► I wish that I did.

00:23:24 ◼   ► And I try to if I can.

00:23:26 ◼   ► But the last few years, I've had the private briefings,

00:23:32 ◼   ► post-keynote briefings, about what's

00:23:34 ◼   ► in a morning keynote in the afternoon.

00:23:36 ◼   ► And they tend to run behind.

00:23:38 ◼   ► And so it's generally impossible for me to make that.

00:23:43 ◼   ► So I watch it afterwards on video.

00:23:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Me too.

00:23:48 ◼   ► I think I've been in the, I don't know,

00:23:51 ◼   ► the past five or six years, I may have been to one.

00:23:54 ◼   ► - It is interesting.

00:23:57 ◼   ► It's interesting missing it,

00:23:58 ◼   ► because I write about Apple stuff

00:24:01 ◼   ► at a technical enough level, and you do too,

00:24:03 ◼   ► where some of the stuff in that session,

00:24:07 ◼   ► we would write about on our websites,

00:24:11 ◼   ► but I don't hear about it, and I'm in a briefing,

00:24:14 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden it's like five o'clock,

00:24:15 ◼   ► and I'm like, you know, maybe like meeting people for beer

00:24:19 ◼   ► or something like that, and then they'll bring up

00:24:21 ◼   ► something like that, and I'm like,

00:24:22 ◼   ► "What, when was that announced?"

00:24:23 ◼   ► And they're like, "In the afternoon."

00:24:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:24:24 ◼   ► And it's like, "Holy shit!"

00:24:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:24:27 ◼   ► - Sorry.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:32 ◼   ► Yeah, it always happens, though, but, you know,

00:24:36 ◼   ► those two things, those two keynotes,

00:24:40 ◼   ► that pretty much lays out everything.

00:24:43 ◼   ► - I expect the theme, I do think I would say this,

00:24:48 ◼   ► I think Apple has kept a very tight lid

00:24:50 ◼   ► on whatever it is they're announcing.

00:24:52 ◼   ► I think A, they have a lot to announce.

00:24:54 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a very busy keynote

00:24:57 ◼   ► with a lot of announcements.

00:24:58 ◼   ► I just have that sense.

00:25:01 ◼   ► And I think a lot of other people do too.

00:25:04 ◼   ► but for the most part, nothing has leaked yet.

00:25:07 ◼   ► - No. - I mean, what,

00:25:07 ◼   ► has anything leaked?

00:25:09 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

00:25:10 ◼   ► Okay, so run through it then.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Apple Watch?

00:25:16 ◼   ► - Nothing has leaked, right?

00:25:18 ◼   ► And I can't help but think that they are going to have

00:25:21 ◼   ► a WatchOS 4 announcement.

00:25:24 ◼   ► This is what I think about that.

00:25:26 ◼   ► I think that WatchOS 3 was so major in terms of,

00:25:31 ◼   ► OK, they really focused on the two things people really

00:25:35 ◼   ► like about Apple Watch are the fitness tracking

00:25:38 ◼   ► and notifications.

00:25:40 ◼   ► And they coalesced the whole OS, even

00:25:44 ◼   ► how you use the hardware buttons and the roller.

00:25:48 ◼   ► And I don't think that there is a way for watchOS 4

00:25:52 ◼   ► to be as big a change as watchOS 3 was,

00:25:55 ◼   ► because they've coalesced on the heart of what

00:26:01 ◼   ► Apple Watch is really good for.

00:26:02 ◼   ► - Did you see the, I wrote a piece a little while ago

00:26:08 ◼   ► about using my Apple Watch without an iPhone.

00:26:12 ◼   ► And what I found, I did it on,

00:26:17 ◼   ► well, I didn't do it on purpose at first,

00:26:19 ◼   ► but I got one of the red iPhones

00:26:21 ◼   ► and I didn't sync my watch with it.

00:26:24 ◼   ► And I started missing phone calls, text messages,

00:26:30 ◼   ► text messages, emails, because my phone was on silent

00:26:35 ◼   ► because I had my watch on and it was linked to my watch

00:26:38 ◼   ► so I would get everything coming in

00:26:40 ◼   ► and my watch would vibrate and I would pick up the phone

00:26:43 ◼   ► and answer it and do whatever.

00:26:45 ◼   ► All of a sudden I was missing everything.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And people would say, I tried calling you

00:26:52 ◼   ► on a look and sure enough there's a list of phone calls

00:26:55 ◼   ► and text messages.

00:26:56 ◼   ► - It's become subconscious for you

00:27:00 ◼   ► that your notifications are gonna be on your wrist,

00:27:02 ◼   ► is what you're saying. - Yeah, yeah.

00:27:04 ◼   ► So I didn't have to, I never have to pick up

00:27:07 ◼   ► my phone anymore because I have everything I need

00:27:11 ◼   ► on my watch.

00:27:13 ◼   ► So when I didn't pair the two of them,

00:27:17 ◼   ► it was devastating for me, you know?

00:27:19 ◼   ► So I actually had to go back and do it.

00:27:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's a great example.

00:27:25 ◼   ► I think that there's, it's, I think where they're going,

00:27:28 ◼   ► where they will go with watchOS 4 is just taking those two areas, fitness and the notifications

00:27:35 ◼   ► and just the subtle niceties that things that you can do with Apple Watch like having your

00:27:40 ◼   ► Mac unlock just by being near it, which I've become addicted to.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Me too.

00:27:45 ◼   ► I swear to God, in terms of drawing a blank on why isn't this working, the other day,

00:27:51 ◼   ► I wasn't wearing my Apple Watch, I was wearing an analog watch, a mechanical watch.

00:27:56 ◼   ► And I go to my MacBook and I didn't feel that tap on my wrist and it's asking me

00:28:00 ◼   ► for my password and I'm like, "Oh, what the fuck?

00:28:02 ◼   ► Is handoff broken?

00:28:04 ◼   ► Is continuity broken?

00:28:05 ◼   ► What?"

00:28:06 ◼   ► And then I was like, "Oh, I was like, duh.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Of course I can't log in."

00:28:10 ◼   ► Yeah, well, I'm so used to that now.

00:28:13 ◼   ► I just walk up and hit a button and, you know, it wakes up, logs me in, and I'm done.

00:28:18 ◼   ► So yeah, that was another thing.

00:28:21 ◼   ► When I didn't pair the two, I'd go in and tap my keyboard and I'd sit there looking

00:28:26 ◼   ► with the screen like--

00:28:28 ◼   ► - It does remind me, it's one of my favorite features

00:28:30 ◼   ► of Apple Watch, 'cause it does remind me,

00:28:32 ◼   ► I mean, I've had a password on my MacBook

00:28:34 ◼   ► for a long time now, really ever since I started traveling

00:28:39 ◼   ► by airplane semi-frequently.

00:28:41 ◼   ► But when I first got like a PowerBook,

00:28:45 ◼   ► I guess it was my first, what I owned was an iBook

00:28:47 ◼   ► back in the day, I didn't even, you know,

00:28:49 ◼   ► I didn't put a password on it because it was too annoying

00:28:52 ◼   ► compared to just lifting the screen and it being logged in.

00:28:55 ◼   ► I don't even know if you could back then.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Could you?

00:28:58 ◼   ► Could you put a, like back in the Mac OS 9 days,

00:29:00 ◼   ► could you put a password on a machine?

00:29:03 ◼   ► - Remember we had, they had voice login.

00:29:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it was like, but Mac OS 9 was so not secure

00:29:11 ◼   ► by default that if you just force rebooted the machine,

00:29:13 ◼   ► it would just start up and you'd.

00:29:15 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:29:16 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I mean, you laugh, but you know,

00:29:18 ◼   ► you didn't think anything of it in a day.

00:29:20 ◼   ► There were no user accounts, you know what I mean?

00:29:22 ◼   ► It was like you just turned the thing on

00:29:23 ◼   ► and there you were.

00:29:25 ◼   ► which was super convenient.

00:29:27 ◼   ► And eventually, with good security

00:29:30 ◼   ► and having your disk encrypted, and so you

00:29:32 ◼   ► feel safe that if somebody stole my MacBook in the airport,

00:29:37 ◼   ► they can't get my data.

00:29:39 ◼   ► They have a nice MacBook they can sell,

00:29:42 ◼   ► but they can't get to my data.

00:29:45 ◼   ► So it's worth it for that.

00:29:46 ◼   ► But just having your Apple Watch unlock it automatically just

00:29:49 ◼   ► by touching a button, it takes you back to those days

00:29:52 ◼   ► where you're just in.

00:29:54 ◼   ► - And it's very secure.

00:29:57 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:29:58 ◼   ► So I think that the Apple Watch announcements,

00:30:00 ◼   ► who knows, I mean, we don't know what they are,

00:30:01 ◼   ► but I just think they'll be about adding more nice things

00:30:05 ◼   ► that happen just by being in proximity to something.

00:30:08 ◼   ► - What about Apple Watch hardware?

00:30:11 ◼   ► - I don't think that they'll announce it at WWDC.

00:30:14 ◼   ► I think that that's considered a September thing.

00:30:16 ◼   ► That's what I think.

00:30:18 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:30:19 ◼   ► - It would be a very big surprise if they did, though.

00:30:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:30:22 ◼   ► But I just don't think so.

00:30:24 ◼   ► And I do think, I think that, you know,

00:30:26 ◼   ► and we'll get to that in a moment,

00:30:27 ◼   ► but I think that that also limits

00:30:30 ◼   ► some of the fitness announcements they can make,

00:30:33 ◼   ► 'cause I think there's only so much they can do in the OS,

00:30:35 ◼   ► whereas a lot of the improvements I think they want to make

00:30:37 ◼   ► require new hardware.

00:30:39 ◼   ► Which, like for example, the story that's,

00:30:44 ◼   ► or CNBC has been tracking it,

00:30:46 ◼   ► where they've reported that Apple is working on glucose

00:30:51 ◼   ► working on glucose monitoring,

00:30:53 ◼   ► non-invasive, continuous glucose monitoring.

00:30:56 ◼   ► And they even said that Tim Cook personally

00:30:58 ◼   ► is wearing an Apple Watch prototype

00:31:01 ◼   ► around Apple's campus that does it.

00:31:04 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:31:05 ◼   ► - This is such a huge deal.

00:31:09 ◼   ► I don't personally have anybody in my immediate family

00:31:12 ◼   ► who has diabetes, but I have friends

00:31:15 ◼   ► who have kids with diabetes, a couple of friends

00:31:18 ◼   ► who have kids with juvenile diabetes.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And all of them are super healthy

00:31:24 ◼   ► and they're all getting great medical care,

00:31:25 ◼   ► but it is a 24 hour a day nonstop source

00:31:29 ◼   ► of minor stress on the parents and the kid.

00:31:32 ◼   ► I mean, because the only way to monitor your blood

00:31:35 ◼   ► is through the pricks, and that sucks.

00:31:37 ◼   ► It sucks even if you're an adult, but guess what?

00:31:39 ◼   ► Like if you have a seven year old

00:31:40 ◼   ► and they're sick and you get the diagnosis,

00:31:44 ◼   ► it's always good news when you figure out what is wrong,

00:31:46 ◼   ► right, and you say, we know exactly what's wrong,

00:31:48 ◼   ► you know, we have bad news, your kid's diabetic,

00:31:50 ◼   ► but the good news is, you know, it's totally treatable.

00:31:53 ◼   ► But you tell a seven-year-old that you're gonna have to

00:31:56 ◼   ► prick their skin and get a blood sample every day

00:31:59 ◼   ► for the rest of their life, I mean, it just doesn't fly.

00:32:02 ◼   ► So to have it in a non-invasive, continuous method

00:32:08 ◼   ► through the watch, it would be so great for the kids,

00:32:11 ◼   ► so great for adults who have diabetes.

00:32:13 ◼   ► And then the thing that occurs to me personally,

00:32:16 ◼   ► because my wife and I, our son has a really severe

00:32:19 ◼   ► anaphylactic dairy allergy.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Like if he has even just a little bit of dairy,

00:32:24 ◼   ► he gets violently ill and has passed out even

00:32:28 ◼   ► in like a hospital setting with like an eighth

00:32:30 ◼   ► of a teaspoon of milk.

00:32:31 ◼   ► And we've been really lucky over the years

00:32:33 ◼   ► and he's a real cautious kid and he just does,

00:32:36 ◼   ► he just by default, if he doesn't know what's in something,

00:32:39 ◼   ► he just doesn't eat it.

00:32:41 ◼   ► He'll go hungry rather than take a flyer

00:32:43 ◼   ► on whether there's dairy in food.

00:32:45 ◼   ► But especially for my wife, because she's a bigger

00:32:49 ◼   ► worrier than me every single day, especially when he was a younger kid.

00:32:53 ◼   ► He's 13 now, but when he was like first grade, second grade, it's every day.

00:32:57 ◼   ► I mean, and his school is great.

00:32:58 ◼   ► And allergies are so common now that school nurses are all

00:33:02 ◼   ► well aware of which kids have which allergies.

00:33:05 ◼   ► But in the back of my wife's mind, she's constantly stressed.

00:33:10 ◼   ► What if he accidentally gets dairy?

00:33:12 ◼   ► Now, dairy's different.

00:33:13 ◼   ► But imagine if he had diabetes instead.

00:33:15 ◼   ► And not only is he-- and he could wear an Apple Watch.

00:33:19 ◼   ► If my wife could get that notification too that, hey,

00:33:24 ◼   ► his glucose is high or low, not only could she help him,

00:33:30 ◼   ► but just on the normal days when there's no problem,

00:33:33 ◼   ► the fact that she knows his glucose is fine

00:33:35 ◼   ► because she doesn't have that alert would be--

00:33:37 ◼   ► it's life changing.

00:33:39 ◼   ► Right.

00:33:39 ◼   ► I mean, that's a sense of calm.

00:33:44 ◼   ► I know everything is okay.

00:33:48 ◼   ► - I don't know, the thing is about the CNBC report,

00:33:52 ◼   ► I am not surprised at all that Apple's working on this.

00:33:55 ◼   ► It seems like a perfect Apple problem to solve,

00:34:00 ◼   ► but there's no indication of whether this is planned

00:34:03 ◼   ► for this year's new Apple watches or not.

00:34:06 ◼   ► It could be the sort of thing

00:34:08 ◼   ► that might be two, three years out,

00:34:10 ◼   ► and it could be the sort of thing

00:34:11 ◼   ► that even if they have it working pretty well,

00:34:14 ◼   ► for all I know, it might be like two or three years

00:34:17 ◼   ► of regulatory hurdles before they can ship it.

00:34:20 ◼   ► - Right, and that's something

00:34:21 ◼   ► that you were talking about earlier,

00:34:22 ◼   ► where the software could be ready,

00:34:25 ◼   ► but if the hardware is not--

00:34:26 ◼   ► - Right, and the regulatory stuff,

00:34:28 ◼   ► I mean, God, I can't even imagine what a nightmare that is.

00:34:32 ◼   ► And for good reason, it should be regulated,

00:34:33 ◼   ► but it's, you know, I'm sure that it's,

00:34:36 ◼   ► it moves, those type of things move at a much slower pace

00:34:40 ◼   ► than the tech world does.

00:34:42 ◼   ► - All right, so let me upset some people here

00:34:47 ◼   ► and play devil's advocate

00:34:52 ◼   ► and look at this in a cynical way.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Do you think Apple is doing this

00:34:59 ◼   ► as a way to sell more devices

00:35:01 ◼   ► or because they care about health?

00:35:04 ◼   ► - I think both.

00:35:05 ◼   ► I do think both.

00:35:07 ◼   ► I think that, of course, they're in the business

00:35:10 ◼   ► of selling devices, and of course,

00:35:11 ◼   ► if they can turn this into a device,

00:35:14 ◼   ► that health insurance would subsidize the purchase of,

00:35:19 ◼   ► and I think it would.

00:35:20 ◼   ► I think health insurance policies would buy kids

00:35:24 ◼   ► Apple Watches, or at least subsidize a big chunk

00:35:27 ◼   ► the price because it's a $299 watch or 250,

00:35:32 ◼   ► or maybe if it takes two or three years,

00:35:35 ◼   ► by that time they'll have one for 199 or something.

00:35:38 ◼   ► It could greatly, greatly, I mean, number one,

00:35:43 ◼   ► it could absolve them of the cost that the insurance

00:35:45 ◼   ► is already covering for the invasive blood tests.

00:35:49 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:35:49 ◼   ► - And it's gonna keep these kids healthier, right?

00:35:53 ◼   ► it's gonna keep them from going to the doctor

00:35:57 ◼   ► by having their blood sugar drop or something like that.

00:36:01 ◼   ► And so, yeah, and then once, if insurance covers the price,

00:36:06 ◼   ► then Apple's gonna sell out,

00:36:08 ◼   ► boatload more of these watches.

00:36:10 ◼   ► I mean, diabetes is obviously a fairly common disease.

00:36:14 ◼   ► So I don't know that it's entirely a coincidence

00:36:17 ◼   ► that they're attacking a disease

00:36:19 ◼   ► where there's a fairly large market of patients

00:36:21 ◼   ► as opposed to some more obscure disease

00:36:24 ◼   ► that maybe the watch could also do.

00:36:25 ◼   ► But I feel like the altruism of it

00:36:29 ◼   ► and the business aspect of it go hand in hand.

00:36:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:33 ◼   ► - And you know what they won't do,

00:36:35 ◼   ► here's just one last point on this.

00:36:36 ◼   ► What they won't do is, remember that scumbag guy,

00:36:41 ◼   ► I don't even remember his name,

00:36:42 ◼   ► I don't even want to say his name,

00:36:43 ◼   ► but the guy who bought the rights to some prescription drug

00:36:46 ◼   ► that was like unique and then the first thing he did

00:36:48 ◼   ► was raise the price by 10X?

00:36:51 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:51 ◼   ► - So like what Apple won't do is, no way would they do,

00:36:55 ◼   ► is make a special edition glucose monitoring Apple Watch

00:36:58 ◼   ► that costs $1,000.

00:37:01 ◼   ► - Correct, yeah, I agree.

00:37:02 ◼   ► - It would be a thing that everybody gets

00:37:04 ◼   ► in their Apple Watch.

00:37:05 ◼   ► That's where they, you know, they won't price gouge

00:37:08 ◼   ► the people who need the glucose monitoring one.

00:37:11 ◼   ► - I truly believe that Apple cares about health.

00:37:19 ◼   ► And I think that they're researching this

00:37:23 ◼   ► as a way to really help people.

00:37:28 ◼   ► The same with the fitness

00:37:31 ◼   ► and look at how they went through

00:37:34 ◼   ► with wheelchairs and they worked with those people

00:37:42 ◼   ► to say, "How can we make this better for you?

00:37:44 ◼   ► "Obviously we won't tell you to stand anymore."

00:37:48 ◼   ► cause that's rude.

00:37:50 ◼   ► You know, but they did a lot of things

00:37:51 ◼   ► where they can track for swimmers

00:37:54 ◼   ► and for all of these things.

00:37:56 ◼   ► I truly believe that they care about that.

00:37:58 ◼   ► - I do too.

00:37:59 ◼   ► - And as a side effect, they do sell more devices.

00:38:04 ◼   ► And that's obviously very important to them.

00:38:07 ◼   ► That is their business.

00:38:08 ◼   ► But I think that they're starting to pull

00:38:12 ◼   ► way out in front of other companies

00:38:17 ◼   ► as far as health tracking goes.

00:38:19 ◼   ► And I include glucose monitoring

00:38:22 ◼   ► and things like that in there.

00:38:23 ◼   ► - Do you remember the shareholders meeting

00:38:25 ◼   ► a couple of years ago where I think that what happened

00:38:30 ◼   ► was that a shareholder stood up

00:38:33 ◼   ► and I think gave Tim Cook grief

00:38:36 ◼   ► over Apple's environmental spending.

00:38:39 ◼   ► I think it was on him, but it doesn't really matter.

00:38:41 ◼   ► But it was something like that.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Let's say like, hey, what's the return on investment

00:38:46 ◼   ► this for shareholders with this, you know, I don't care about this, you know,

00:38:50 ◼   ► greenhouse gases, you know, and Tim Cook got angry and said, God,

00:38:55 ◼   ► I wish there was footage of it. All we have is like people replaying it.

00:38:58 ◼   ► But he said, I don't give a damn about your bloody ROI on some,

00:39:01 ◼   ► there are some issues where we don't give a damn about your bloody ROI.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And you know that that word bloody was almost the F word. Yep. Yep.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Because Tim Cook isn't British. I don't think he certainly doesn't sound British.

00:39:16 ◼   ► You know, and I think that on this accessibility stuff

00:39:21 ◼   ► and some of this stuff, it's absolutely not

00:39:24 ◼   ► measured as an ROI.

00:39:25 ◼   ► I don't think that they sell--

00:39:27 ◼   ► I don't think making the Apple Watch a great fitness tracker

00:39:30 ◼   ► for people in wheelchairs--

00:39:32 ◼   ► yes, there are people in wheelchairs

00:39:34 ◼   ► who've since bought an Apple Watch who wouldn't have bought

00:39:37 ◼   ► one otherwise because they know that it's

00:39:40 ◼   ► going to work for their needs, which are obviously

00:39:43 ◼   ► very, very different than somebody who's walking.

00:39:48 ◼   ► But I don't think that anybody at Apple

00:39:49 ◼   ► ever performed the spreadsheet calculation

00:39:53 ◼   ► of how many more we can sell versus how much

00:39:55 ◼   ► it's going to cost us to develop it.

00:39:57 ◼   ► I think that the idea of, hey, let's make this thing work

00:39:59 ◼   ► for wheelchair people, people in wheelchairs,

00:40:03 ◼   ► and I think everybody was like, oh, yeah, definitely.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Let's do that.

00:40:06 ◼   ► I'll bet there wasn't one person who said,

00:40:09 ◼   ► well, let's run a cost analysis first.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Agreed.

00:40:13 ◼   ► No way.

00:40:13 ◼   ► And I really do think that that's one of the things

00:40:17 ◼   ► that makes Apple a different company.

00:40:18 ◼   ► I mean, obviously some of these initiatives are so big

00:40:21 ◼   ► on the environmental front that I think they have

00:40:23 ◼   ► to be measured financially,

00:40:25 ◼   ► building out these giant solar farms.

00:40:28 ◼   ► I'm sure that they know exactly what the cost is,

00:40:33 ◼   ► but I still don't think that they do them,

00:40:35 ◼   ► they certainly don't do them to save money.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Apple's not saving money by being carbon neutral.

00:40:41 ◼   ► They truly, they see it as a long-term investment

00:40:45 ◼   ► in the company by making the world a better place.

00:40:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then there is some energy savings

00:40:53 ◼   ► because they all, I think it's long-term,

00:40:57 ◼   ► that they are neutral.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - Right, Apple spends more money on energy, though,

00:41:01 ◼   ► because they're carbon neutral than they would

00:41:03 ◼   ► if they said we don't give a shit if we're carbon neutral.

00:41:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:07 ◼   ► They really do, they spend more money,

00:41:08 ◼   ► and there's really no direct return on that investment

00:41:11 ◼   ► There's no immediate return on it.

00:41:13 ◼   ► It's a long-term, you know,

00:41:17 ◼   ► if the world is a better place

00:41:18 ◼   ► and we can set an example that others follow

00:41:21 ◼   ► and we can help get these greenhouse gases down,

00:41:24 ◼   ► Apple will be in a better place in 50 years.

00:41:26 ◼   ► When everybody who's here right now is retired or dead,

00:41:30 ◼   ► Apple's gonna be in a better place because of this,

00:41:33 ◼   ► because the world's in a better place.

00:41:34 ◼   ► I mean, I don't wanna get all--

00:41:36 ◼   ► - You don't catch up.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - Mamsy-pamsy here, but.

00:41:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:41:39 ◼   ► I do, I think, but I think you're right.

00:41:41 ◼   ► And I think the fitness, I'm telling you right now,

00:41:43 ◼   ► was it last year where they announced

00:41:45 ◼   ► the wheelchair support at WWDC?

00:41:48 ◼   ► I think it was last year. - I believe so.

00:41:49 ◼   ► - I think it was last year with Watch OS 3.

00:41:51 ◼   ► I mean, I teared up in the movie.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I mean, it's, it's, 'cause, and I felt a little guilty

00:41:56 ◼   ► because I have to admit that before Apple showed it to me

00:41:59 ◼   ► in their intro video, it never even occurred to me

00:42:03 ◼   ► that the default configuration of Apple Watch,

00:42:06 ◼   ► where it assumes that you are walking

00:42:10 ◼   ► and running and jogging isn't gonna work

00:42:12 ◼   ► for someone in a wheelchair.

00:42:13 ◼   ► Just didn't occur to me.

00:42:14 ◼   ► And I felt guilty, but the way that Apple presented it,

00:42:18 ◼   ► I was like, oh God, I teared up.

00:42:19 ◼   ► I was, I mean, as I get older, I'm getting softer.

00:42:23 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:42:25 ◼   ► - We all are, John.

00:42:29 ◼   ► - Speaking of wheelchairs, friend of the show,

00:42:32 ◼   ► David_Smith, he's a developer with all the plus plus apps.

00:42:37 ◼   ► He's got a pedometer plus plus app

00:42:39 ◼   ► that hooks into HealthKit and gives you

00:42:43 ◼   ► like a pedometer-specific interface.

00:42:46 ◼   ► It's a great app.

00:42:47 ◼   ► If you're interested in counting your steps and stuff

00:42:49 ◼   ► like that, you should really look into it.

00:42:50 ◼   ► It's a terrific app.

00:42:52 ◼   ► Did you see there's a new feature in iOS

00:42:54 ◼   ► that they've added a couple--

00:42:55 ◼   ► iOS 10 a couple months ago where an app can set a custom

00:42:59 ◼   ► icon for the app?

00:43:02 ◼   ► So for--

00:43:03 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:43:03 ◼   ► They apparently added it for sports apps.

00:43:06 ◼   ► So for example, the MLB app can now, it asks you now,

00:43:11 ◼   ► hey, would you like to change the icon for the app

00:43:14 ◼   ► to the icon of your favorite team?

00:43:15 ◼   ► So for me--

00:43:17 ◼   ► - Oh, you can put the Red Sox in there.

00:43:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can put the Red Sox.

00:43:20 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:22 ◼   ► Tampa Bay Devil race, anybody I love.

00:43:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:26 ◼   ► I actually tried it, it's funny, I tried it.

00:43:29 ◼   ► I heard about the feature, and I heard that it was,

00:43:31 ◼   ► all apps can do it, but it was, I heard somewhere,

00:43:35 ◼   ► I think it was, I don't think it was through public channels, but I heard somewhere that

00:43:39 ◼   ► Eddie Q sort of spearheaded it because of his interest in sports and he knows some of

00:43:43 ◼   ► the guys at the, you know, the sports apps. Um, and so I tried it and I hated it because

00:43:50 ◼   ► I even though I love the Yankees and the Yankees are most of what I care about the MLB app,

00:43:53 ◼   ► it totally breaks years of my habit of looking at the MLB logo, the league's logo and tapping

00:44:01 ◼   ► So I actually turned that off. But anyway, David_Smith used that feature and has an option in his pedometer++ app to change the icon from somebody walking to somebody in a wheelchair.

00:44:15 ◼   ► Ah, that's nice.

00:44:17 ◼   ► You know what, it's like the same way that honestly,

00:44:20 ◼   ► it's like the way that people at Apple

00:44:22 ◼   ► think of things like that.

00:44:24 ◼   ► The Apple developer community is full of,

00:44:28 ◼   ► when you have somebody who's a developer

00:44:30 ◼   ► but who has a thoughtful sort of humanist streak to them

00:44:33 ◼   ► like David Smith, that's why he's an iOS developer, right?

00:44:37 ◼   ► It just is the sort of thing that occurs to, you know,

00:44:40 ◼   ► the right kind of people.

00:44:43 ◼   ► I don't know, I saw that in his change notes

00:44:45 ◼   ► I was like, oh man, that's a great feature.

00:44:47 ◼   ► - What did you think of Derek Cheater Day?

00:44:51 ◼   ► - I can't really talk about it, Jim.

00:44:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:59 ◼   ► I have a better story though than Derek Cheater Day.

00:45:03 ◼   ► Derek Cheater Day was Mother's Day

00:45:05 ◼   ► and I was thinking about going and taking my son,

00:45:08 ◼   ► but Amy didn't wanna go and it's Mother's Day

00:45:11 ◼   ► and Derek Cheater picked Mother's Day.

00:45:13 ◼   ► It wasn't, you know, he said,

00:45:14 ◼   ► "When would you like to have your day?"

00:45:15 ◼   ► And he said, "I'd love my mom so much,

00:45:18 ◼   ► "it would be meaningful to me to have it on Mother's Day."

00:45:21 ◼   ► But it put me in a position of,

00:45:25 ◼   ► do we blow off Mother's Day and go see a Yankees game?

00:45:29 ◼   ► - That wouldn't be a good idea.

00:45:30 ◼   ► - Well, I have to say, in all honesty, you know her,

00:45:33 ◼   ► and so you might be surprised, but she was honest to God.

00:45:36 ◼   ► She was like, "Go, seriously, we'll do something

00:45:39 ◼   ► "on Saturday or whatever, but if you wanna go, go."

00:45:42 ◼   ► and she really, you know, like one thing

00:45:45 ◼   ► I don't have to worry about with her

00:45:46 ◼   ► is she tells me what she's thinking.

00:45:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:50 ◼   ► So like I don't have to worry about the thing

00:45:52 ◼   ► where she might say, oh yeah, you should go,

00:45:54 ◼   ► and then we go, and then I find out it was a test,

00:45:56 ◼   ► and I failed the test.

00:45:57 ◼   ► No, if she doesn't want me to go,

00:45:59 ◼   ► she would say, you an idiot?

00:46:01 ◼   ► Why would you go on Mother's Day?

00:46:02 ◼   ► But she told us to go.

00:46:04 ◼   ► But we didn't, and instead I watched it on TV.

00:46:06 ◼   ► And this is the best thing, friend of the show,

00:46:09 ◼   ► Matthew Panzareno was in New York at the time.

00:46:13 ◼   ► They were having TechCrunch Disrupt.

00:46:15 ◼   ► And Monday morning, the first day of the conference,

00:46:19 ◼   ► he had an interview with Derek Jeter

00:46:22 ◼   ► and his co-founder of the website, The Players Tribune.

00:46:25 ◼   ► And Matthew invited me up to come see it

00:46:30 ◼   ► and have backstage passes.

00:46:32 ◼   ► And I got one for Jonas as well, so we played hooky.

00:46:35 ◼   ► He missed school, unfortunately,

00:46:37 ◼   ► and we took the train up to New York,

00:46:39 ◼   ► saw Matthew's excellent interview with Derek Jeter and then Jonas and I met him backstage.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu Oh, good for you.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Jim Collison It was great. He was very nice.

00:46:47 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu Wow.

00:46:47 ◼   ► Jim Collison Very, very nice man. Very handsome. God, is he handsome. Jesus.

00:46:51 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu He's not as handsome as I am. I mean, let's be honest.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Jim Collison I don't know, Jim. I don't know that I'm around you.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Tom Bilyeu Well, yeah, that's what you tell people.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Jim Collison His hands are softer than yours as well, I have to say.

00:47:05 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:47:07 ◼   ► I don't even know what to say about that.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Derek Jeter has very soft hands. It's like calf skin.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I don't know what to say.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Rinty and leather.

00:47:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:16 ◼   ► Jeterian leather.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I must say that I did watch that, because obviously, he's a very important man in the sport,

00:47:29 ◼   ► And I was touched, I've got to say. Looking at the people in the crowd, they were crying.

00:47:38 ◼   ► They were proud. They were sad. They understood what he meant for the team.

00:47:48 ◼   ► Yeah, and he just had that sort of magical career where he just always seemed to go right for him

00:47:54 ◼   ► up until that Bloop single in the world's 2001 World Series that went over his head.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Even then, it's like even when they lost the World Series, they had to lose it in the

00:48:05 ◼   ► most spectacular fashion possible. A broken bat Bloop single over the shortstop, right

00:48:11 ◼   ► after they had him come in to play a close grandpa. It was great, and Yankee fans certainly

00:48:18 ◼   ► appreciate that sort of thing.

00:48:20 ◼   ► All right, back to WWDC.

00:48:24 ◼   ► I don't think we'll see hardware on Apple Watch.

00:48:26 ◼   ► There's rampant rumors, though, that we might see new iPad hardware.

00:48:30 ◼   ► What do you think about that?

00:48:33 ◼   ► That wouldn't surprise me at all.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Because I would say primarily it's just been so long.

00:48:42 ◼   ► The 12.9-inch, the big iPad Pro, came out in September of 2015, so it's over a year

00:48:49 ◼   ► and a half old. And the regular sized iPad Pro came out last March, April, around then. So it's

00:48:58 ◼   ► a little over a year. It's just crying for an update. And if it doesn't come out at WWDC,

00:49:06 ◼   ► that pushes it to the fall. And I just don't think that they would want to do that. I think if they

00:49:12 ◼   ► can announce it at WWDC, they will. I think updates to the iPad make perfect sense.

00:49:19 ◼   ► for the hardware that will be at the event.

00:49:24 ◼   ► - And the rumor, but nothing is really leaked.

00:49:30 ◼   ► I mean, rumors have leaked, but there's no,

00:49:32 ◼   ► here's a picture of what the new iPad looks like.

00:49:34 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:49:35 ◼   ► - But the rumors are that it's sort of

00:49:38 ◼   ► the same footprint device, but with a screen

00:49:41 ◼   ► that's bigger that goes edge to edge,

00:49:44 ◼   ► that eliminates the chin and forehead, as I call them.

00:49:48 ◼   ► Some of the rumors suggest that only the 10 point something

00:49:52 ◼   ► inch one is going to ship.

00:49:53 ◼   ► I find that hard to believe, unless unbeknownst to all

00:49:57 ◼   ► of us, the 12.9 inch iPad is sort of a flop.

00:50:01 ◼   ► I mean, if they don't have an update to the one that hasn't

00:50:03 ◼   ► come out since September 2015, it

00:50:07 ◼   ► would say to me that maybe they're

00:50:09 ◼   ► done with that size iPad.

00:50:12 ◼   ► I mean, I can't imagine why they would update the smaller one

00:50:15 ◼   ► before they do the other one.

00:50:16 ◼   ► I think they should update them together.

00:50:17 ◼   ► And it makes total sense to me,

00:50:19 ◼   ► given how much more expensive iPad Pros are

00:50:22 ◼   ► than regular, just plain iPads,

00:50:25 ◼   ► that they would want them to look different too.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And this reduction in bezel would be a way to do that,

00:50:30 ◼   ► where you look like you've got a more Pro iPad

00:50:33 ◼   ► because it's got this cooler edge-to-edge screen.

00:50:36 ◼   ► - That is my favorite one.

00:50:37 ◼   ► - To be honest. - The big one?

00:50:40 ◼   ► - The Pro.

00:50:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, the big Pro? - No, the smaller Pro.

00:50:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's my favorite too.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Smaller Pro is my favorite. And I'll be honest with you, a lot of it is because of that True Tone

00:50:54 ◼   ► technology with the screen. I can see that thing outside in the sun.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Pete: Yeah.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Pete: And I'm still, I still walk around with my phone turning so that it's in the shade,

00:51:03 ◼   ► you know, so that I can see it properly. I wish they'd bring True Tone to everything.

00:51:08 ◼   ► I want my car in my eyeballs.

00:51:10 ◼   ► Pete; I do too. I still remember when Schiller introduced it and he said,

00:51:15 ◼   ► once you get used to it, you can't go back.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And that made me think it was coming on the iPhone too,

00:51:19 ◼   ► last year, and it didn't. - Me too, me too.

00:51:21 ◼   ► - But it's probably my biggest disappointment,

00:51:25 ◼   ► single biggest disappointment about the iPhone 7

00:51:28 ◼   ► is that it doesn't have True Tone

00:51:30 ◼   ► because it's such a nice effect.

00:51:31 ◼   ► - Agreed.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I don't know how they do it,

00:51:35 ◼   ► but you can see the screen changing

00:51:39 ◼   ► as you're moving into different areas.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - And it just, it really looks so much different

00:51:44 ◼   ► and better in incandescent light.

00:51:46 ◼   ► I don't like, I personally hate that feature, personally.

00:51:50 ◼   ► I'm not saying I'm disappointed that it's a feature in EOS,

00:51:53 ◼   ► but I hate that feature where it changes

00:51:56 ◼   ► the color of the screen at night

00:51:57 ◼   ► for the supposed help getting to sleep.

00:52:01 ◼   ► What's that one called?

00:52:04 ◼   ► I hate it, so I don't know the name of it.

00:52:06 ◼   ► Night Shift.

00:52:07 ◼   ► - Well, Night Shift, yeah.

00:52:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hate Night Shift.

00:52:10 ◼   ► And when I see somebody using a phone with Night Shift,

00:52:13 ◼   ► Instantly, I'm appalled.

00:52:14 ◼   ► It looks to me like it's been sitting in like a

00:52:18 ◼   ► hole in the wall bar for 30 years

00:52:23 ◼   ► and it's just covered with nicotine stains.

00:52:26 ◼   ► - But supposedly that works for--

00:52:30 ◼   ► - Well, to each his own and people,

00:52:32 ◼   ► some people swear by it,

00:52:33 ◼   ► but for people who haven't seen the iPad Pro with True Tone,

00:52:37 ◼   ► it sounds like it's the same thing,

00:52:39 ◼   ► where it shifts the colors based on the ambient colors

00:52:43 ◼   ► of the light in the environment you are.

00:52:45 ◼   ► But it's nothing like night shift.

00:52:46 ◼   ► Because to me, night shift, you know--

00:52:49 ◼   ► when you look at night shift, it doesn't

00:52:50 ◼   ► make the screen look right.

00:52:52 ◼   ► It makes the screen look different.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And I personally find it distasteful.

00:52:56 ◼   ► People who like it, they find it easier on their eyes at night.

00:52:59 ◼   ► They know that it's on, though.

00:53:01 ◼   ► Whereas true tone, once you get used to it,

00:53:03 ◼   ► you don't know that it's there.

00:53:05 ◼   ► It just makes the screen look, quote unquote,

00:53:07 ◼   ► "right" in all lighting environments.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Yeah, and you can take the iPad with True Tone outside, and if you watch carefully,

00:53:18 ◼   ► I find it better coming from outside to inside, if you watch carefully on the screen, you

00:53:23 ◼   ► can see not the screen dim or not the screen get brighter, but actually change the way

00:53:29 ◼   ► that it's displaying things to you.

00:53:31 ◼   ► So if you take an older iPad outside and set it in the sun and try and do something, you

00:53:39 ◼   ► really see the screen. Right. But the one with True Tone, you can see it just as if

00:53:43 ◼   ► you were inside. Well, and then the other thing too is when I compare it, like Amy uses

00:53:48 ◼   ► a 9.7 inch iPad Pro a lot. It's like her favorite computing device. And she uses it at night

00:53:57 ◼   ► and then I see her screen and then I look at my iPhone screen and my iPhone screen suddenly

00:54:01 ◼   ► looks like, you know, like the colors look rough.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I definitely want that.

00:54:10 ◼   ► So I think iPad hardware at WWDC,

00:54:13 ◼   ► I'm not going to call it a sure thing because I don't feel like anything's

00:54:16 ◼   ► a sure thing with as much secrecy as they've maintained around their stuff.

00:54:20 ◼   ► But it certainly is overdue.

00:54:23 ◼   ► And I would really like to see both two sizes of iPad pros

00:54:27 ◼   ► with these new edge-to-edge screens.

00:54:29 ◼   ► I'd like to see the regular size and I want to see the big size.

00:54:31 ◼   ► That to me is the one that makes the most sense.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Of course, outside of the software, if we're looking at hardware,

00:54:40 ◼   ► that is the one that makes the most sense to me.

00:54:43 ◼   ► I would like to see a significant improvement to the smart keyboard cover as well.

00:54:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I don't mind typing on that thing, but I think it could be better.

00:54:54 ◼   ► When I first looked at it, I was like, "I'm going to hate that."

00:54:57 ◼   ► and then when I actually tried using it I was like this is actually a little better than I thought

00:55:01 ◼   ► but I feel like there's so much room for improvement. I don't understand why

00:55:10 ◼   ► the keys on the the cover are so small. I know exactly what you mean. Why not make them bigger

00:55:18 ◼   ► and make them closer to each other? Yeah it just it they have those beautiful keyboards

00:55:27 ◼   ► on the MacBook Pros, if they would take that,

00:55:30 ◼   ► put it on a smart cover, I would love it.

00:55:33 ◼   ► - Even if it made the cover thicker?

00:55:35 ◼   ► - It doesn't matter.

00:55:36 ◼   ► - All right.

00:55:37 ◼   ► - But I don't think that it would make the cover thicker.

00:55:40 ◼   ► I mean, the keys are pretty high as it is.

00:55:43 ◼   ► - Here's an out there idea that would make me

00:55:47 ◼   ► more likely to do more on an iPad as work

00:55:51 ◼   ► would be if they added a track pad

00:55:54 ◼   ► to the smart keyboard cover.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:56 ◼   ► And my idea for them adding a trackpad would not be, of course, not adding a mouse arrow

00:56:04 ◼   ► on screen, an arrow pointer that you could tap all around the screen and make it like

00:56:10 ◼   ► a Mac.

00:56:11 ◼   ► No, because that's the whole difference.

00:56:13 ◼   ► You know, the Mac is an arrow mouse pointer based graphical user interface.

00:56:18 ◼   ► The iPad is a direct touch interface.

00:56:21 ◼   ► for text editing in the exact same way

00:56:24 ◼   ► that iOS already supports force touch on the iPhone

00:56:28 ◼   ► for moving the cursor around like a mouse, like a trackpad.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:33 ◼   ► And somebody on Twitter today-- I forget who, I'm sorry--

00:56:36 ◼   ► but somebody pointed out that the force touch

00:56:39 ◼   ► on the keyboard on iPhone to move the insertion point around

00:56:44 ◼   ► just like a trackpad on Mac is their single favorite force

00:56:49 ◼   ► touch feature on the iPhone.

00:56:51 ◼   ► And I completely agree.

00:56:52 ◼   ► And every time I mention it, it's

00:56:54 ◼   ► one of those features that's not obvious,

00:56:56 ◼   ► because you can't look to assume it's there.

00:56:58 ◼   ► I guarantee you there are people listening

00:57:00 ◼   ► to the show right now who are like,

00:57:01 ◼   ► what the hell is he talking about?

00:57:02 ◼   ► And then they're going to take out their iPhone.

00:57:05 ◼   ► So go to a note or an email where you're writing an email.

00:57:08 ◼   ► Bring up the keyboard.

00:57:09 ◼   ► And then force touch on the keyboard

00:57:11 ◼   ► and drag your finger around.

00:57:12 ◼   ► And you'll see the little insertion point on screen

00:57:15 ◼   ► move around just like a mouse pointer.

00:57:17 ◼   ► I would love to see them add that to the smart keyboard

00:57:21 ◼   ► cover just for text editing.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Everything else, you still tap the screen.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I guess the other thing that maybe the trackpad could

00:57:29 ◼   ► be used for would be scrolling, but not a mouse pointer.

00:57:33 ◼   ► Scrolling, like two finger touch on the trackpad

00:57:36 ◼   ► for scrolling a view so that you don't have to reach your arm

00:57:39 ◼   ► out to scroll.

00:57:41 ◼   ► I think that would be cool too.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Everything but the mouse pointer.

00:57:44 ◼   ► and then just use it for moving the insertion point.

00:57:49 ◼   ► I find that it would make text editing so much faster.

00:57:53 ◼   ► I find it so hard to select text on an iPad.

00:57:56 ◼   ► I really do.

00:57:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:59 ◼   ► I'm trying to think space-wise how you would do that.

00:58:02 ◼   ► I'm trying to make the keys bigger.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And I'm telling them to add a trackpad.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Well, I think you'd set it up like a MacBook, where

00:58:10 ◼   ► the keys are up top by the base of the iPad,

00:58:13 ◼   ► and underneath the space bar, there's a little trackpad.

00:58:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, you wouldn't need a big trackpad.

00:58:20 ◼   ► - No, just a little one.

00:58:22 ◼   ► I would make me, I think it would make people

00:58:24 ◼   ► who work on iPads so happy.

00:58:27 ◼   ► I mean, there's things that I've taken for granted

00:58:31 ◼   ► on the Mac since I first used a Mac in the '80s,

00:58:35 ◼   ► where you can just put your mouse in a point,

00:58:38 ◼   ► in a paragraph, and triple-click

00:58:40 ◼   ► and get the whole paragraph selected.

00:58:42 ◼   ► - Right. - Right?

00:58:44 ◼   ► Like, to double click on a word with a mouse pointer

00:58:49 ◼   ► is so much faster to me than selecting a word

00:58:53 ◼   ► in with the finger.

00:58:54 ◼   ► Or if you wanna select two words,

00:58:56 ◼   ► like if I've got Jim space Dalrymple,

00:59:00 ◼   ► to just double, I don't even think about it,

00:59:01 ◼   ► I just double click on Jim and then drag over,

00:59:04 ◼   ► you know, hold on the double click,

00:59:05 ◼   ► drag over to Dalrymple, and as soon as I hit the D

00:59:08 ◼   ► and Dalrymple, I've got both words selected exactly,

00:59:12 ◼   ► no surrounding spaces, and they're ready to be

00:59:15 ◼   ► copied or pasted, or I guess if it says

00:59:17 ◼   ► Jim Dalrymple, delete it.

00:59:18 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:59:22 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:59:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:59:26 ◼   ► - Do you think that Apple would do that?

00:59:28 ◼   ► Or are they too resistant to the difference

00:59:32 ◼   ► between touch and trackpad?

00:59:35 ◼   ► iOS versus Mac?

00:59:36 ◼   ► I mean, they've been very clear up until now that they don't seem to want the iPad

00:59:47 ◼   ► to look anything like or act anything like a...

00:59:50 ◼   ► I think that if you don't add a mouse pointer on screen, other than when you're moving

00:59:54 ◼   ► the insertion point around, and as soon as you're done moving it, it just, you know,

00:59:59 ◼   ► the blinking cursor lets go where you let go.

01:00:04 ◼   ► I think it could be done.

01:00:05 ◼   ► I think that the iPad could gain a trackpad

01:00:08 ◼   ► and not really become Mac-like in any way.

01:00:11 ◼   ► It would just have some conveniences of trackpad support

01:00:15 ◼   ► in a way that the Mac can't just add touch.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And you know what I mean?

01:00:20 ◼   ► It's easier for the iOS to get-- for the iPad

01:00:22 ◼   ► to get more like a Mac than for the Mac to get more like an iPad

01:00:25 ◼   ► is what I'm trying to say.

01:00:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:27 ◼   ► Without losing what it is that makes each one good on its own.

01:00:33 ◼   ► I have no idea.

01:00:35 ◼   ► Again, none of this stuff-- not one thing

01:00:37 ◼   ► I'm talking about today is like a rumor that I've heard

01:00:40 ◼   ► from little birdies or anything.

01:00:41 ◼   ► I've heard nothing.

01:00:42 ◼   ► And I don't want to know.

01:00:43 ◼   ► I'm hoping to go into this keynote totally surprised.

01:00:46 ◼   ► So this is just me speculating.

01:00:48 ◼   ► But I see it on Twitter all the time

01:00:50 ◼   ► when I write about these things from Daring Fireball Readers,

01:00:53 ◼   ► that this idea of having trackpad support just

01:00:57 ◼   ► for text editing and maybe scrolling on the iPad

01:01:00 ◼   ► is something an awful lot of people would like to see.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I agree.

01:01:03 ◼   ► I agree, because what I tend to use the iPad for a lot

01:01:08 ◼   ► is text editing, you know, research, reading,

01:01:12 ◼   ► typing out little notes, stuff like that.

01:01:14 ◼   ► So I would love to see something like that.

01:01:18 ◼   ► - And it does support text,

01:01:20 ◼   ► like making selections with the keyboard,

01:01:22 ◼   ► you know, like where you can use the arrow keys

01:01:25 ◼   ► to get the insertion point right where you want it

01:01:26 ◼   ► and hold down shift to make a selection

01:01:29 ◼   ► and hold down shift and option to select words at a time.

01:01:32 ◼   ► But you know what, most people don't know those shortcuts.

01:01:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:37 ◼   ► - Whereas people do know how to select words,

01:01:39 ◼   ► double click on words and triple click on paragraphs

01:01:41 ◼   ► with a mouse pointer.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - I still want the keys bigger.

01:01:50 ◼   ► - What about, all right, what about the iPad mini?

01:01:54 ◼   ► Boy genius report, Jonathan Geller reported last week

01:01:57 ◼   ► that he's heard from a source at Apple

01:01:59 ◼   ► that the iPad mini is going to be discontinued.

01:02:02 ◼   ► But whether that means that we're just haven't,

01:02:05 ◼   ► I think if that's true, if, and I don't know,

01:02:08 ◼   ► I'm just saying if it's true,

01:02:10 ◼   ► I don't think it means that they're going to stop selling

01:02:13 ◼   ► the iPad mini, I think they're going to do

01:02:14 ◼   ► what they've done with the MacBook Air with it

01:02:16 ◼   ► and just keep selling the MacBook mini as it is

01:02:20 ◼   ► until people stop buying it.

01:02:21 ◼   ► - Okay, I do like the iPad mini,

01:02:29 ◼   ► but I use the 9.7 much more.

01:02:33 ◼   ► - I love the iPad Mini, but it's hit me right in the,

01:02:38 ◼   ► as I'm, I've talked about this before,

01:02:41 ◼   ► but I'm at the point now where I need reading glasses

01:02:44 ◼   ► when I have my contacts in.

01:02:46 ◼   ► It's exactly on schedule for a mid-40s person

01:02:50 ◼   ► who's nearsighted, like all of a sudden I need,

01:02:54 ◼   ► the fact that the iPad Mini is the same interface

01:02:56 ◼   ► as the pixel for pixel, the same interface

01:02:59 ◼   ► as the 9.7 inch iPad, just smaller,

01:03:02 ◼   ► makes it, it's hard for me to read at this point.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I love it though.

01:03:06 ◼   ► And when I was younger, and honestly,

01:03:09 ◼   ► the way that pressed by opiate comes on,

01:03:12 ◼   ► for those of you too young to have it yet,

01:03:15 ◼   ► it happens very fast.

01:03:17 ◼   ► I know you're going through the same thing.

01:03:19 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:03:20 ◼   ► - And it's like one year you see perfectly

01:03:24 ◼   ► at reading distance, just like you

01:03:26 ◼   ► did when you were in your teens and your 20s and your 30s.

01:03:29 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden, one year later,

01:03:31 ◼   ► you can't read this distance, and you have to hold it out.

01:03:33 ◼   ► And then two years later, it's like, I can't read this at all.

01:03:38 ◼   ► That's happened to me in between when the iPad Mini first

01:03:40 ◼   ► appeared and today.

01:03:42 ◼   ► When the iPad Mini first appeared,

01:03:43 ◼   ► I had no trouble reading it.

01:03:47 ◼   ► And I loved it.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I loved it because of the size.

01:03:49 ◼   ► I really, really loved it.

01:03:51 ◼   ► And so personally, I don't really care

01:03:55 ◼   ► 'cause I don't think I would ever buy

01:03:56 ◼   ► an iPad mini again personally

01:03:58 ◼   ► because I want the bigger, I want everything bigger.

01:04:03 ◼   ► - Well, I need it bigger. (laughs)

01:04:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I'll say, yeah, I'll go as far as you.

01:04:08 ◼   ► I need it bigger.

01:04:09 ◼   ► - When I travel though, I always take my 9.7.

01:04:16 ◼   ► If I'm at home, I'll use the larger one,

01:04:20 ◼   ► But given the choice, it's that 9.7 Pro.

01:04:24 ◼   ► - But if my eyes were better, I would still be using,

01:04:27 ◼   ► I would still prefer the iPad Mini.

01:04:28 ◼   ► So if I were younger or just had better eyesight

01:04:31 ◼   ► at this point, I'd be disappointed by this snooze.

01:04:34 ◼   ► - I wonder what the demographic of people

01:04:36 ◼   ► in general buying iPads.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Wonder if they're older or younger.

01:04:40 ◼   ► - You know what I noticed?

01:04:41 ◼   ► I just bought a, speaking, it's all kind of related.

01:04:45 ◼   ► It all comes full circle, Jim.

01:04:46 ◼   ► So I got a new prescription for glasses from my eye doctor

01:04:51 ◼   ► for when I'm wearing my contacts.

01:04:54 ◼   ► When I wear contact lenses, I need reading glasses.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And when I wear my regular prescription glasses,

01:05:00 ◼   ► I need to take my glasses off to see up close.

01:05:02 ◼   ► Does that make sense to you?

01:05:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay.

01:05:06 ◼   ► - So one way or the other, all day, every day,

01:05:09 ◼   ► I'm taking glasses on and off.

01:05:11 ◼   ► I can either have prescription glasses on

01:05:15 ◼   ► to see at distance and take them off to read,

01:05:18 ◼   ► or I can wear my contact lenses

01:05:21 ◼   ► and see everything at distance, fine,

01:05:22 ◼   ► but have to put reading glasses on to read.

01:05:24 ◼   ► Long story short.

01:05:27 ◼   ► So for my reading glasses, while I'm wearing contact lenses,

01:05:30 ◼   ► my eye doctor gave me a new prescription,

01:05:33 ◼   ► which is a little different.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Like, you know, a lot of people buy their reading glasses

01:05:37 ◼   ► just in the drug store.

01:05:38 ◼   ► You can get 'em for like six bucks.

01:05:40 ◼   ► - Right.

01:05:40 ◼   ► - I wanted to get, and I've been using those

01:05:43 ◼   ► just to sort of experiment cheaply.

01:05:45 ◼   ► But I got a new pair of reading glasses

01:05:47 ◼   ► and I wanted to get a decent pair of glasses

01:05:50 ◼   ► since I use them all the time now.

01:05:52 ◼   ► So I got Warby Parker's.

01:05:54 ◼   ► They said they're not sponsoring this episode of the show.

01:05:56 ◼   ► But we have a nice new, just opened a couple months ago,

01:05:58 ◼   ► Warby Parker Boutique here in Philadelphia

01:06:01 ◼   ► that's just a few blocks from where I live.

01:06:03 ◼   ► And so I went to their actual store

01:06:06 ◼   ► to see what it was like and got these glasses there.

01:06:09 ◼   ► And what I noticed was that every single salesperson

01:06:12 ◼   ► in the store walks around with an iPad Mini,

01:06:15 ◼   ► and that's how they do their checkout.

01:06:17 ◼   ► When you say, "Hey, I'd like to get these glasses.

01:06:19 ◼   ► "Here's my prescription," and they save you

01:06:21 ◼   ► for bought glasses from us before,

01:06:23 ◼   ► and they log you out.

01:06:25 ◼   ► What they have in their hand is an iPad Mini.

01:06:28 ◼   ► And I think it's perfect for the task.

01:06:30 ◼   ► And it's a lot less conspicuous

01:06:31 ◼   ► than walking around with a bigger iPad.

01:06:33 ◼   ► It's a little lighter.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And I've seen them too as Square Cache readers

01:06:38 ◼   ► a lot of places, like when people set up

01:06:41 ◼   ► Square Cash is their checkout.

01:06:43 ◼   ► But I wonder if it's because the Mini is small,

01:06:46 ◼   ► or is it just because they bought the cheapest possible iPad

01:06:49 ◼   ► because it's just gonna be a card reader,

01:06:51 ◼   ► and at the time, the Mini was the cheapest possible iPad,

01:06:54 ◼   ► and now that there's the new 9.7-inch iPad

01:06:56 ◼   ► at the lowest price in the lineup,

01:06:59 ◼   ► they'll just buy that instead.

01:07:01 ◼   ► - I don't think so.

01:07:02 ◼   ► I think the Mini works perfect for that type of situation.

01:07:06 ◼   ► - And I kind of, you know,

01:07:10 ◼   ► I feel like the situations where the Mini works,

01:07:13 ◼   ► it makes sense that they don't need to update it.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Like it would be nice, but if they're selling it

01:07:18 ◼   ► in kind of low quantities, like this is obviously not

01:07:21 ◼   ► the biggest selling iPad, because if it were,

01:07:23 ◼   ► they'd just update it.

01:07:25 ◼   ► But in selling in quantities enough

01:07:26 ◼   ► that it makes sense to keep it around,

01:07:28 ◼   ► even if they don't update the config,

01:07:31 ◼   ► it might be around for years to come.

01:07:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:35 ◼   ► And they already have it up to sort

01:07:36 ◼   ► of the baseline level of modern Apple iOS hardware,

01:07:40 ◼   ► where it has touch ID support, it has a retina screen.

01:07:43 ◼   ► - What do you think their thought is?

01:07:48 ◼   ► The iPhone is getting bigger and kind of encroaching

01:07:51 ◼   ► on where the Mini is or the fact that people

01:07:55 ◼   ► just aren't buying the Mini?

01:07:57 ◼   ► - I think it has something to do,

01:07:59 ◼   ► well, I don't think it's what Apple's thinking.

01:08:01 ◼   ► I think it's what customers are thinking.

01:08:03 ◼   ► And I think Apple's, you know, customers do the thinking

01:08:06 ◼   ► And what they sell or what they buy,

01:08:09 ◼   ► Apple makes more of and updates.

01:08:13 ◼   ► And I think what customers are probably thinking is--

01:08:15 ◼   ► I think more people like the 9.7-inch iPad.

01:08:21 ◼   ► I think Apple got that right in 2010,

01:08:25 ◼   ► when the first one came out.

01:08:27 ◼   ► They got the size right.

01:08:30 ◼   ► This is the best size for the device

01:08:33 ◼   ► that we're thinking of calling the iPad.

01:08:36 ◼   ► I think they nailed it, and I think it's still true

01:08:38 ◼   ► to this day, and I think the fact that for people

01:08:41 ◼   ► who kind of want a more handheld-sized thing,

01:08:45 ◼   ► the plus-sized phones are not so close.

01:08:50 ◼   ► I mean, there's definitely a difference

01:08:51 ◼   ► between an iPad Mini and an iPhone 7 Plus,

01:08:54 ◼   ► but it's close enough, though, that somebody

01:08:56 ◼   ► who has a 7 Plus is not gonna buy an iPad Mini.

01:08:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'd agree with that, and once they get rid of the,

01:09:05 ◼   ► - What did you call them, the chin and the forehead?

01:09:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:09:08 ◼   ► - That's gonna make, it's gonna make it seem even larger.

01:09:12 ◼   ► Well, I suppose it will be, but.

01:09:15 ◼   ► - I do think the current pricing lineup

01:09:16 ◼   ► is a little weird for the iPad.

01:09:19 ◼   ► Because there's like a big gap

01:09:24 ◼   ► between the 9.7 inch just plain iPad,

01:09:28 ◼   ► the one that just came out a few months ago,

01:09:30 ◼   ► and the entry level iPad Pro.

01:09:33 ◼   ► Like there's no middle range in the iPad lineup anymore.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Like it used to be the Mini was the low end price.

01:09:40 ◼   ► The 9.7 inch, what they used to call the iPad Air,

01:09:45 ◼   ► was the mid range and then the iPad Pro was the high end.

01:09:48 ◼   ► But instead they don't really have a mid range anymore

01:09:51 ◼   ► because they dropped the price on the 9.7 inch iPad

01:09:54 ◼   ► below the price of the iPad Pro.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Right, if you look at the 32 gigabyte models,

01:10:03 ◼   ► or the entry level models.

01:10:04 ◼   ► The cheapest iPad Mini is a $399 iPad with 128 gigabytes.

01:10:12 ◼   ► And then to get the regular iPad,

01:10:14 ◼   ► you can get one for $329, which is a lower price,

01:10:17 ◼   ► but it only has 32 gigabytes.

01:10:18 ◼   ► And then the $128 model, which is probably the better model

01:10:22 ◼   ► for most people-- 32 is pretty slim-- is $429.

01:10:25 ◼   ► So for only $30 more, you can get the new iPad instead

01:10:29 ◼   ► of the iPad Mini 4.

01:10:31 ◼   ► That's a hell of a deal.

01:10:32 ◼   ► I mean, that seems-- it just doesn't--

01:10:34 ◼   ► it sort of defies the, hey, you get a discount

01:10:36 ◼   ► for buying a small iPad.

01:10:38 ◼   ► So it seems like they're pushing people towards that.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:44 ◼   ► And then the next one up is a 32 gigabyte 9.7 inch iPad Pro.

01:10:48 ◼   ► It jumps all the way to $599.

01:10:50 ◼   ► You go from $429 to $600.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And at 128 gigs, for the 128 gig config, which for the Pro,

01:10:58 ◼   ► I think most people are going to want.

01:10:59 ◼   ► because if you really are thinking about using the iPad

01:11:02 ◼   ► in a use case where you don't need a lot of storage

01:11:05 ◼   ► or you're not gonna put a lot of apps on it,

01:11:07 ◼   ► you're not gonna get a Pro anyway.

01:11:08 ◼   ► You're gonna get the just plain iPad.

01:11:11 ◼   ► So for the 128, it goes to 699.

01:11:13 ◼   ► It's 700 bucks.

01:11:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:15 ◼   ► - That's almost, what is it?

01:11:17 ◼   ► Two, $270 difference between the 9.7-inch iPad

01:11:22 ◼   ► and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro at 128 gigabytes.

01:11:26 ◼   ► That seems like too big of a gap.

01:11:29 ◼   ► So it just makes me think that whatever they're going to announce at WWDC is

01:11:33 ◼   ► going to fill in some of the gaps in that pricing.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Like maybe what they'll do is introduce these new iPad pros with the chin and

01:11:44 ◼   ► forehead gone and keep the prices that we have right now for iPad pros, and then

01:11:48 ◼   ► keep some of the older iPad pros that are on sale today and keep them in the lineup

01:11:54 ◼   ► in that mid range price range.

01:11:58 ◼   ► That would be my bet as to what Apple does.

01:12:01 ◼   ► - And there's rumors of the new size, right?

01:12:06 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Well, the new size though,

01:12:09 ◼   ► it's a screen size, not a device size.

01:12:11 ◼   ► I think what that means is when they take

01:12:13 ◼   ► the chin and forehead away,

01:12:15 ◼   ► instead of making the device smaller,

01:12:16 ◼   ► they just fill it in with a slightly bigger screen.

01:12:19 ◼   ► And that if you stacked it on top of each other,

01:12:22 ◼   ► it might be about the same size physically.

01:12:24 ◼   ► - So what's that gonna do to the graphics and everything?

01:12:28 ◼   ► - Nothing, I think that's--

01:12:29 ◼   ► - It's just gonna spread it out?

01:12:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that the graphics on these iPads,

01:12:35 ◼   ► on the A10 series chips, it doesn't even break a sweat.

01:12:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:12:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, that makes sense.

01:12:43 ◼   ► - What about apps?

01:12:45 ◼   ► Will it affect them in any--

01:12:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that they'll need to be, you know,

01:12:48 ◼   ► but I think if they're using the size classes right,

01:12:51 ◼   ► and the apps that have already been written

01:12:53 ◼   ► adjust to iPad split screen multitasking, you know, where you no longer make assumptions

01:12:59 ◼   ► about you that you have the whole screen, right? You might be 50/50, you might be two-thirds,

01:13:05 ◼   ► one-third. I think apps that are already adjusted that will adjust to the new size easily. Okay.

01:13:12 ◼   ► And if they don't, you know, and I'm sure they'll have a mode in where apps that haven't

01:13:15 ◼   ► been updated by their developers will just run in a stretch mode or something like that,

01:13:19 ◼   ► maybe like letterboxed or something like that. Do you use that split screen?

01:13:23 ◼   ► I don't use an iPad enough, but when I do use an iPad, I definitely use the split screen.

01:13:31 ◼   ► I found that to be very helpful. It's one of those features that you talked about earlier with

01:13:39 ◼   ► unlocking your Mac that you just, once you get used to using, you kind of really love.

01:13:45 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, one thing I definitely do on the iPad is I will watch baseball games and

01:13:52 ◼   ► it's nice to have the baseball game running while you're still paying attention to like a

01:14:02 ◼   ► slack conversation or an iMessage or something like that and you don't have to leave the game,

01:14:06 ◼   ► you can just, you know, you can just chat with somebody while you're watching the game. It's,

01:14:10 ◼   ► you know, I definitely use it. I think it could be improved though, which leads me to the next

01:14:14 ◼   ► topic but I will I will hold that until I do another sponsor break to thank our next sponsor

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01:16:36 ◼   ► All right, here's my next topic, Jim.

01:16:38 ◼   ► You led right into it.

01:16:40 ◼   ► I think that iOS is overdue for iPad-specific features.

01:16:48 ◼   ► I heard there were rumors last year

01:16:51 ◼   ► that it was slated for iOS 10 and was one of those things,

01:16:55 ◼   ► like I mentioned earlier in the show, that wasn't ready in time

01:16:59 ◼   ► and therefore didn't make the cut.

01:17:02 ◼   ► and I think it's overdue to be there this year.

01:17:07 ◼   ► And I think it might be a big part of the WWDC keynote.

01:17:11 ◼   ► - So if we both agree that hardware-wise,

01:17:15 ◼   ► iPad makes sense, then they could really make a big splash

01:17:20 ◼   ► by having software-only features on iPad as well.

01:17:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, because to state the obvious,

01:17:30 ◼   ► There's an awful lot that the iPhone and iPad share.

01:17:33 ◼   ► And there's an awful lot of-- there's

01:17:35 ◼   ► some benefits to the fact that they share an operating system,

01:17:38 ◼   ► and that you can have these universal apps

01:17:40 ◼   ► that the same app runs on your phone, it runs on iPad,

01:17:43 ◼   ► and they share a lot of things.

01:17:45 ◼   ► But there's one very obvious thing

01:17:47 ◼   ► that's very different about the iPad than the iPhone, which

01:17:49 ◼   ► is that it has a humongous screen compared to the iPhone.

01:17:54 ◼   ► And an awful lot of ways-- in little ways,

01:18:00 ◼   ► and like 100 little paper cuts here and there,

01:18:02 ◼   ► the fact that iOS started life as a phone OS

01:18:06 ◼   ► and the phone is still the primary product

01:18:11 ◼   ► of the entire company, it makes the iPad suffer

01:18:15 ◼   ► in 100 little ways that if the iPad were Apple's only product,

01:18:19 ◼   ► or if the tables were turned and it

01:18:22 ◼   ► was the iPad that sold 70 million units a quarter

01:18:25 ◼   ► and the iPhone that sold 9, 10 million a quarter,

01:18:30 ◼   ► iOS would be way better on the iPad.

01:18:33 ◼   ► There's just no doubt about it, right?

01:18:35 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

01:18:36 ◼   ► Did you read Federico Vittucci's piece last week?

01:18:40 ◼   ► It had almost like a little book length.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

01:18:44 ◼   ► What he hoped to see in iOS 11.

01:18:47 ◼   ► And boy, I loved it.

01:18:49 ◼   ► And a lot of times, I don't like concept videos like that.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Like, why waste the time on that?

01:18:56 ◼   ► Because most of the time when people make concept videos,

01:18:58 ◼   ► they're so far out there that there's no way that you

01:19:02 ◼   ► could actually build it today.

01:19:05 ◼   ► Whereas everything Federico imagined

01:19:06 ◼   ► is completely feasible.

01:19:08 ◼   ► There's not one idea he has that is like pie in the sky.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Well, yeah, that would be nice, but how the hell would

01:19:14 ◼   ► that work?

01:19:16 ◼   ► And an awful lot of his ideas revolve around multitasking,

01:19:19 ◼   ► having two things on screen, multiple things on screen,

01:19:22 ◼   ► and being able to do things that on the Mac

01:19:24 ◼   ► you just take for granted.

01:19:26 ◼   ► If you have a file on your desktop

01:19:28 ◼   ► and you want to send it in a message, you just click on it

01:19:31 ◼   ► and drag it into the message.

01:19:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:33 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

01:19:35 ◼   ► I mean, I laugh.

01:19:37 ◼   ► But it's things like that that keep me from really

01:19:42 ◼   ► feasibly even thinking of being a full-time iPad user.

01:19:45 ◼   ► It would just drive me nuts.

01:19:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:48 ◼   ► When you can see the one thing right here,

01:19:51 ◼   ► and you can't drag it to the other thing that you see at the same time on screen, it feels broken.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Right. Yeah, I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. And I don't think that there's anybody in

01:20:03 ◼   ► our community that really uses the iPad like Federico does.

01:20:09 ◼   ► No. That's the thing. When I blinked to it, I said, the best thing about it isn't any specific idea,

01:20:14 ◼   ► but it's the genuine passion and love for the platform that pervades his writing about it.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Like he sees a potential for the iPad that I personally don't and it's why I really enjoyed

01:20:28 ◼   ► reading his piece where I was like, I think he's onto something here that this really could be a

01:20:33 ◼   ► lot better for typical day-to-day productivity. - Well, and I think that's, you touched on it

01:20:39 ◼   ► at the beginning of this segment that iOS would be different and better on the iPad

01:20:48 ◼   ► if that's what it was made for. But you know, having iPhone be the main thing, it makes

01:20:57 ◼   ► a lot more difficult. Yeah, there is a, there's a too many chefs spoil the stew

01:21:03 ◼   ► aspect that you know, you can't just throw engineers at a problem and money at a problem

01:21:11 ◼   ► and get it done faster.

01:21:12 ◼   ► I mean, it's the famous programming adage

01:21:18 ◼   ► that if you throw more engineers at an overdue programming

01:21:23 ◼   ► project, it actually makes it even later,

01:21:25 ◼   ► because you waste more time in the collaboration

01:21:28 ◼   ► between the programmers than you get.

01:21:31 ◼   ► It's not like painting a house where

01:21:34 ◼   ► you can have more painters get the job done faster.

01:21:39 ◼   ► But Apple is-- I don't know if you've heard this, Jim,

01:21:44 ◼   ► but Apple is a financially successful company.

01:21:46 ◼   ► I think expecting the iPad to advance at a fast rate

01:21:54 ◼   ► is not unreasonable for a company with their resources.

01:21:58 ◼   ► And given what they say about the iPad,

01:22:02 ◼   ► and that they say that this is the future of personal computing

01:22:04 ◼   ► and stuff like that, I think that they

01:22:06 ◼   ► need to put their money where their mouth is

01:22:08 ◼   ► and make it happen.

01:22:10 ◼   ► - I think part of the problem with the iPad though

01:22:14 ◼   ► is that from a consumer's perspective,

01:22:18 ◼   ► I think the consumer when they heard about tablets

01:22:23 ◼   ► expected it to do more quicker than what it actually does.

01:22:28 ◼   ► Apple's very clear in this is a touch interface

01:22:33 ◼   ► and we're not gonna do a mouse on screen.

01:22:35 ◼   ► There's a Mac for that.

01:22:37 ◼   ► But I don't think as much as there's people in the 50 plus age group and the 20 and under age group that

01:22:44 ◼   ► You know from kids to older people that love the ipad. It's that group in between

01:22:51 ◼   ► that

01:22:53 ◼   ► Can't really get their head around how to use it. Yeah, uh as a full-time thing, so

01:22:59 ◼   ► Maybe apple's actually waiting

01:23:02 ◼   ► to see

01:23:04 ◼   ► You know where this whole thing goes. I mean

01:23:06 ◼   ► yeah, they're selling millions, they're selling a lot less than what they used to,

01:23:10 ◼   ► but I just, I think people are having a difficult time wrapping their head around it.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Uh, the book that I was thinking of was Frederick Brooks, Fred Brooks' famous book,

01:23:20 ◼   ► The Mythical Man-Month, where the central theme of the book is that adding manpower to a late

01:23:24 ◼   ► software project makes it later. So, before anybody sends a correction to me or says,

01:23:29 ◼   ► "That's what you're thinking of, that was the book." Uh, anyway, I think you're right.

01:23:34 ◼   ► - You already got 100 emails about that.

01:23:37 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:23:39 ◼   ► - I put it in the show notes.

01:23:41 ◼   ► I did, I swear to God, there it is, you can see it.

01:23:44 ◼   ► I think, here's a little thing that I think is weird

01:23:49 ◼   ► about the iPad and doesn't really make sense to me.

01:23:52 ◼   ► If I am using a Mac and let's say I've got a Safari window

01:23:58 ◼   ► and I've got a BB Edit window and I'm writing in BB Edit

01:24:03 ◼   ► BB Edit and I'm taking notes from the Safari thing and I can put the Safari

01:24:07 ◼   ► window on the left and the BB Edit window on the right and I can see them

01:24:11 ◼   ► both side by side. I can tell instantly which one currently has the focus

01:24:19 ◼   ► because it looks different. It's, you know, if I use the default colors it's got the

01:24:25 ◼   ► red, yellow, green buttons instead of the desaturated buttons. On the iPad when

01:24:30 ◼   ► you're multitasking, you can't really tell which one has focus.

01:24:35 ◼   ► And that bothers me.

01:24:37 ◼   ► And then the other thing is I don't really like the way

01:24:39 ◼   ► that the iPad multitasking gives favored status

01:24:43 ◼   ► to the left side.

01:24:44 ◼   ► Like the left is the real app, and the right,

01:24:47 ◼   ► even if you have it split 50/50, is still

01:24:49 ◼   ► sort of like a secondary app in some ways.

01:24:52 ◼   ► Whereas on the Mac, I could put the Safari window on the left

01:24:56 ◼   ► and the BB Edit window on the right.

01:24:58 ◼   ► and if I change my mind, I can put BB Edit on the left

01:25:00 ◼   ► and Safari on the right, and it doesn't make any difference.

01:25:04 ◼   ► I don't understand why there's this,

01:25:06 ◼   ► you can't just treat both sides of split screen

01:25:09 ◼   ► on the iPad the same.

01:25:11 ◼   ► Like it just seems to me like a UI concept

01:25:13 ◼   ► that hasn't been thought through thoroughly.

01:25:15 ◼   ► - Or hasn't been implemented.

01:25:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so I really love to see them take this idea

01:25:23 ◼   ► of doing two apps or three apps or maybe four apps

01:25:27 ◼   ► on the 12.9 inch iPad at the same time.

01:25:30 ◼   ► Like wouldn't it be interesting if you could have

01:25:34 ◼   ► four apps all running in narrow columns side by side

01:25:38 ◼   ► on the iPad Pro?

01:25:39 ◼   ► I could think of context where that would be useful.

01:25:42 ◼   ► - You have to think with everything that Apple tests

01:25:46 ◼   ► and everything that they do,

01:25:48 ◼   ► that I mean they must have thought about this stuff.

01:25:52 ◼   ► - I don't think so, but for example,

01:25:54 ◼   ► just think like if you're doing a keynote,

01:25:56 ◼   ► If you're in a keynote and you're taking notes

01:25:59 ◼   ► and you're tweeting and let's say you're part

01:26:04 ◼   ► of a bigger news organization where there's a team

01:26:07 ◼   ► and you've got an internal Slack, wouldn't you want

01:26:09 ◼   ► to see all three of those things on screen at once?

01:26:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, you would.

01:26:12 ◼   ► - Right, it's, you know.

01:26:13 ◼   ► You know Apple's thought about it.

01:26:17 ◼   ► The question is have they taken the time

01:26:19 ◼   ► and put a team together to actually make something

01:26:22 ◼   ► truly, thoroughly thoughtful and ready to go?

01:26:25 ◼   ► I would love to see it this year at WWDC,

01:26:27 ◼   ► and I think, you know, it just seems like something

01:26:30 ◼   ► that could be on the table.

01:26:32 ◼   ► And I think it would get a great response.

01:26:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so do I.

01:26:38 ◼   ► - All right, so iPad.

01:26:41 ◼   ► I think iPad will be a big, software and hardware,

01:26:43 ◼   ► big part of WWDC.

01:26:45 ◼   ► How about rumors that they're working on a Siri,

01:26:48 ◼   ► speak, standalone Siri speaker device?

01:26:50 ◼   ► You know, like a--

01:26:53 ◼   ► - Do you use one of those?

01:26:55 ◼   ► - We do, we have the Amazon Echo.

01:27:00 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:27:01 ◼   ► - And we use it, we play music,

01:27:02 ◼   ► and we don't really do much else.

01:27:03 ◼   ► But we're looking at getting some smart home stuff.

01:27:08 ◼   ► We don't have any smart home stuff.

01:27:13 ◼   ► Our house is very dumb.

01:27:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:27:16 ◼   ► - And getting some lights that are set up

01:27:18 ◼   ► so that you can just turn all the lights on and off

01:27:22 ◼   ► of time, get window shades that you can raise and lower,

01:27:25 ◼   ► you know, and stuff like that.

01:27:29 ◼   ► And if-- unless Apple comes out with something like that,

01:27:33 ◼   ► we will hook them up to our Amazon thing,

01:27:36 ◼   ► because the Amazon thing works pretty well for controlling

01:27:38 ◼   ► those things, supposedly.

01:27:39 ◼   ► I can't verify it, because I don't have anything

01:27:41 ◼   ► like that in the house yet.

01:27:43 ◼   ► But we will.

01:27:46 ◼   ► And there's a rumor.

01:27:47 ◼   ► It's not just people wishing for it.

01:27:48 ◼   ► There are rumors that Apple is working on something like that.

01:27:51 ◼   ► Right. Right. But isn't Siri gonna have to get a lot smarter?

01:27:58 ◼   ► I think all of these things need to get a lot smarter. I think they're all dumb in different

01:28:04 ◼   ► ways. And people, this is my central premise. I'm not I don't defend serious being light years ahead

01:28:11 ◼   ► of any of these competitors. I do think Siri is ahead of Google's and Amazon's in certain ways.

01:28:18 ◼   ► And I think Google's is ahead.

01:28:20 ◼   ► I think all three of them have their pluses and minuses.

01:28:22 ◼   ► And depending on what you want out of it, one of them

01:28:25 ◼   ► might make you happy.

01:28:26 ◼   ► And then you think the other ones are garbage

01:28:28 ◼   ► because they don't do the things.

01:28:30 ◼   ► I totally get it.

01:28:31 ◼   ► I can see that Amazon's thing does things that Siri can't,

01:28:34 ◼   ► and works in certain ways that Siri doesn't.

01:28:37 ◼   ► And if that's all you want to do,

01:28:40 ◼   ► it makes you very happy as an Echo user.

01:28:43 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean that Siri is garbage.

01:28:46 ◼   ► But Siri would obviously have to be

01:28:48 ◼   ► much improved for a standalone family device

01:28:51 ◼   ► than it is right now.

01:28:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:55 ◼   ► I mean, there's so many things.

01:28:56 ◼   ► All these things have to improve.

01:28:58 ◼   ► For a family device, it has to be able to recognize voices.

01:29:02 ◼   ► And I know how tricky that can be.

01:29:04 ◼   ► Like, for example, apparently-- I don't hear it,

01:29:07 ◼   ► but when I became a teenager, when I hit puberty,

01:29:11 ◼   ► when I answered the phone and the phone call was for my dad,

01:29:14 ◼   ► every single time they would just start talking to me like I was Bob Gruber. It was so weird,

01:29:19 ◼   ► because as a kid, my dad had a long commute to work every day. And so, a lot of times,

01:29:25 ◼   ► and so he'd carpool with some of his colleagues. And so, a lot of times before, and my dad worked

01:29:30 ◼   ► third shift, so he would leave for work around nine o'clock at night. So, a lot of times,

01:29:37 ◼   ► between seven and eight or something like that, my dad might be taking a nap after dinner before

01:29:44 ◼   ► he gets ready for work, and the phone rings, and it's somebody, you know, one of his guys,

01:29:48 ◼   ► regular guys who he rides to work with, with, you know, maybe he's going to be 10 minutes late or

01:29:52 ◼   ► something. And if I answered the phone, they'd say, "Bob," and they'd start talking to me,

01:29:58 ◼   ► right? And so if a human being thought that me as a teenager sounded like my dad, it's going to be

01:30:04 ◼   ► a tough programming problem to get a standalone device that can tell two siblings, a brother,

01:30:12 ◼   ► two brothers who are two years apart who kind of sound the same because genetically they're brothers

01:30:17 ◼   ► or a father and a son or something like that. I understand that's probably a hard problem,

01:30:23 ◼   ► but guess what? In real life, you can tell people's voices apart, right? And that's, you know,

01:30:29 ◼   ► these devices have to be as smart as people in that device, in that regard.

01:30:36 ◼   ► I agree with you. I think a lot of the problem, and as you mentioned, is what

01:30:43 ◼   ► you want to be able to do. And at this point, I try and have everything so dumbed down because

01:30:51 ◼   ► I've run into so many problems with these assistants. I try and ask the simplest of

01:30:56 ◼   ► questions, and otherwise, I'll just go Google, you know? Because even just, I think it was last

01:31:05 ◼   ► weekend or the weekend before, I asked uh, Siri what time the hockey game was on, the NHL playoffs,

01:31:13 ◼   ► and Siri came up and gave me a game that was coming up on Monday, and I said,

01:31:17 ◼   ► "I guess there is no game on today." I thought there was, so I turned on the the TV,

01:31:23 ◼   ► there's a hockey game on, you know, it's coming up.

01:31:26 ◼   ► Trenton Larkin And then that instantly burns your trust, right?

01:31:30 ◼   ► And now you feel like you can—

01:31:31 ◼   ► Pete: Instantly.

01:31:32 ◼   ► And I'm thinking at that point, and I tried it again, you know, what time is the hockey

01:31:38 ◼   ► game on today?

01:31:40 ◼   ► And Siri gave me the hockey game on Monday again.

01:31:43 ◼   ► And you know, I'm thinking, well, is there somebody at Apple sitting there typing stuff

01:31:47 ◼   ► into Siri, but they don't work on the weekends?

01:31:51 ◼   ► [Laughter]

01:31:52 ◼   ► You know?

01:31:53 ◼   ► Pete: It is weird.

01:31:54 ◼   ► It's weird when you get the right answer so many times in a row.

01:31:58 ◼   ► I got a bunch of them during the NCAA tournament where I was really, you know, my favorite

01:32:02 ◼   ► team is North Carolina and they ended up winning the championship.

01:32:05 ◼   ► But there were a lot of games to watch then because they kept winning.

01:32:08 ◼   ► And I was asking, you know, when's the next North Carolina game?

01:32:10 ◼   ► And I got the right answer most times, but then one time I got the wrong answer.

01:32:14 ◼   ► And I think it was the same thing you might've run into where the game had already started.

01:32:18 ◼   ► You know, and a human assistant, if I had a human butler in my house who could answer

01:32:25 ◼   ► my questions because I'm Bruce Wayne or whatever, you know, and I have Alfred.

01:32:29 ◼   ► If Alfred knew the game was on right now, he would say, "Oh, you're missing it." And you know,

01:32:37 ◼   ► North, there's two minutes, the first half started three minutes ago and North Carolina is up 6-4.

01:32:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:44 ◼   ► And it's on Channel 803.

01:32:47 ◼   ► If you ask about basketball, that's what it'll say.

01:32:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:32:51 ◼   ► It'll say, oh, Golden State's winning six to four,

01:32:55 ◼   ► it's two minutes into the first quarter or something.

01:32:58 ◼   ► So I just, I don't, that's what burns me

01:33:02 ◼   ► about these assistants.

01:33:04 ◼   ► - They're so early days, they're so primitive.

01:33:07 ◼   ► It's literally like the Apple One,

01:33:10 ◼   ► where you programmed it, you had to turn it on

01:33:15 ◼   ► and all you could do is write your own programs.

01:33:18 ◼   ► That's where all of these devices are.

01:33:21 ◼   ► Google's, Amazon's, Siri on your devices.

01:33:24 ◼   ► But they gotta be so much smarter.

01:33:25 ◼   ► If I've got a thing in my kitchen, it should be trivial.

01:33:29 ◼   ► It's gotta work where if I say what's on my calendar today,

01:33:33 ◼   ► I get my calendar, and if my wife says

01:33:36 ◼   ► what's on my calendar today, she gets her calendar.

01:33:38 ◼   ► - Right, right. - And it doesn't work

01:33:39 ◼   ► like that, there's a way to hook up

01:33:40 ◼   ► like a second thing to Amazon, but you have to like,

01:33:43 ◼   ► it doesn't just work by both of us saying that.

01:33:45 ◼   ► You have to say, like, you have to tell,

01:33:48 ◼   ► like, hey, Dingus, switch the account from John to Amy,

01:33:52 ◼   ► and then it's using a different account

01:33:53 ◼   ► or something like that.

01:33:54 ◼   ► It doesn't just work in the way that it should,

01:33:57 ◼   ► which is you just talk to it

01:33:59 ◼   ► and it knows who's talking to you.

01:34:00 ◼   ► - Right.

01:34:01 ◼   ► - I mean, and the other thing

01:34:02 ◼   ► that would make these things smarter

01:34:03 ◼   ► and help identify voices would be

01:34:05 ◼   ► if they'd combined it with a camera

01:34:07 ◼   ► and not have separate devices like Amazon's coming out with

01:34:10 ◼   ► where there's a separate one with a camera

01:34:11 ◼   ► and there's a thing with a speaker and stuff like that.

01:34:14 ◼   ► But if it has a camera, it would help.

01:34:16 ◼   ► Like if the software has trouble telling the voices

01:34:20 ◼   ► of me and my dad apart, the camera should help clarify it

01:34:24 ◼   ► because I don't look anything like my dad.

01:34:26 ◼   ► - And wasn't there a story a little while ago

01:34:31 ◼   ► that Schiller said that these types of devices

01:34:34 ◼   ► needed a screen?

01:34:35 ◼   ► - I think he did, yes.

01:34:39 ◼   ► - So the next one, or an Apple one would have a screen.

01:34:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, Amazon came out with the one with the screen

01:34:48 ◼   ► the other week and I showed it to,

01:34:50 ◼   ► and we have the Amazon Echo in our kitchen

01:34:52 ◼   ► and it's subtle enough and tuck-away-able enough

01:34:56 ◼   ► in a corner that it flew, but I showed that to Amy

01:34:58 ◼   ► and I was like, would you let me put one of these

01:35:01 ◼   ► in the kitchen and she said no.

01:35:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:35:05 ◼   ► - Well, maybe she was just testing you,

01:35:07 ◼   ► you should go get it, put it in there

01:35:09 ◼   ► and see how she reacts then.

01:35:12 ◼   ► - I don't know, it's not an attractive device.

01:35:14 ◼   ► I wouldn't call it ugly per se,

01:35:15 ◼   ► but it looks like a sort of '80s Buck Rogers

01:35:19 ◼   ► sort of aesthetic.

01:35:21 ◼   ► It does not look like a very elegant device.

01:35:26 ◼   ► Like if Apple came out with a device that looked like that,

01:35:28 ◼   ► I would honestly, people would leave the keynote

01:35:31 ◼   ► and be like, you know, sell the stock, short the stock.

01:35:33 ◼   ► You know, something's gone wrong.

01:35:36 ◼   ► I mean it, I really do mean it.

01:35:39 ◼   ► And I kind of feel like people grade Amazon on a curve.

01:35:43 ◼   ► - Yes, they do. - Because they're not known

01:35:45 ◼   ► for their design.

01:35:46 ◼   ► But the truth is they're competing against Apple,

01:35:50 ◼   ► so why shouldn't they be judged by the,

01:35:52 ◼   ► when Apple has raised the bar for how devices should look,

01:35:55 ◼   ► why in the world should a company making competing devices

01:35:57 ◼   ► not be graded on the same scale?

01:35:59 ◼   ► - Well, I agree with you,

01:36:00 ◼   ► but why shouldn't Amazon be graded

01:36:02 ◼   ► on not making any money either?

01:36:04 ◼   ► - Well, that's a separate discussion.

01:36:08 ◼   ► I'm amenable to the agreement

01:36:12 ◼   ► that they could make money if they wanted to,

01:36:13 ◼   ► and since investors aren't asking them to,

01:36:15 ◼   ► why not just not make any money?

01:36:18 ◼   ► Well, I think that's a separate issue.

01:36:21 ◼   ► - It is, it is a separate issue.

01:36:22 ◼   ► So, I--

01:36:25 ◼   ► - Do you think Apple is going to have one at WDC?

01:36:28 ◼   ► - Well, that's what I was just, I was gonna ask you that.

01:36:30 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't think so, I don't think so.

01:36:35 ◼   ► - Here's what I think, I think it's so exciting

01:36:38 ◼   ► because the only thing people seem to know

01:36:40 ◼   ► is Apple might have something in this category.

01:36:43 ◼   ► I think if Apple does, it is very, very likely

01:36:47 ◼   ► that it is conceptually different than the Echo

01:36:53 ◼   ► and the Google one.

01:36:53 ◼   ► The Echo and the Google one, to me, are the exact same concept.

01:36:57 ◼   ► They do look different.

01:36:58 ◼   ► Google's is more like a vase.

01:37:00 ◼   ► But there are speakers that listen and do things

01:37:03 ◼   ► and can be hooked up.

01:37:04 ◼   ► And I think if Apple comes out with one,

01:37:05 ◼   ► it's going to be different conceptually.

01:37:08 ◼   ► maybe it's less about it being a thing that you talk to

01:37:11 ◼   ► and it really is just a speaker system

01:37:13 ◼   ► so that you can play airplay music to it.

01:37:16 ◼   ► - Well, that's kind of boring.

01:37:19 ◼   ► - It is kind of boring, but it might be,

01:37:21 ◼   ► it might be more what, it might fulfill a different need.

01:37:26 ◼   ► And if it is a sort of intelligent assistant type thing,

01:37:29 ◼   ► it might be very different.

01:37:31 ◼   ► - I would like something different conceptually,

01:37:35 ◼   ► but I don't know what that is.

01:37:40 ◼   ► I just want it to work.

01:37:44 ◼   ► I've said before, I've tried to add reminders

01:37:49 ◼   ► and appointments and things like that in with Siri

01:37:52 ◼   ► and it just, it could work.

01:37:56 ◼   ► But then again, maybe not.

01:37:57 ◼   ► - And I think that we've all collectively

01:38:04 ◼   ► sort of given up on Apple's Wi-Fi hardware?

01:38:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:38:11 ◼   ► - I mean, and part of it is because it's been a long time

01:38:12 ◼   ► since they've updated it.

01:38:13 ◼   ► Part of it is that there are a lot of competing products

01:38:16 ◼   ► that have come out with newer stuff,

01:38:20 ◼   ► like the mesh networks that Eros do and stuff like that.

01:38:23 ◼   ► But going back two, three years,

01:38:29 ◼   ► there's been speculation ever since Apple has started

01:38:33 ◼   ► the home kit stuff that, hey, doesn't this home kit stuff

01:38:38 ◼   ► sort of seem like it needs a hub?

01:38:42 ◼   ► You know, like in the, you know,

01:38:44 ◼   ► and Apple has often used that hub metaphor

01:38:47 ◼   ► that, you know, the digital, you know,

01:38:49 ◼   ► that the Mac is your digital hub back in 2001.

01:38:53 ◼   ► And it's the thing that you plug your digital camera into,

01:38:56 ◼   ► you plug your iPod into, and it's your digital hub.

01:39:00 ◼   ► And if you have a video camera that shoots digital video,

01:39:03 ◼   ► What do you do with it?

01:39:04 ◼   ► You plug it into your Mac.

01:39:05 ◼   ► Okay.

01:39:05 ◼   ► Then, famously, I think it might have been his last keynote,

01:39:08 ◼   ► Steve Jobs announcing iCloud said,

01:39:11 ◼   ► "This is the new hub of your personal life.

01:39:14 ◼   ► "The hub is gonna be iCloud,

01:39:16 ◼   ► "and the truth is in the cloud."

01:39:18 ◼   ► And so, you know, your documents are in iCloud,

01:39:22 ◼   ► and then they show up as satellites to,

01:39:24 ◼   ► your Mac is now just a satellite device

01:39:26 ◼   ► like your phone and your iPad, or your Apple TV.

01:39:33 ◼   ► For the home kit, though, I think

01:39:35 ◼   ► that there is a need for a hub.

01:39:37 ◼   ► And it makes sense that it wouldn't be in the cloud,

01:39:40 ◼   ► that it could be a device that's in your home.

01:39:42 ◼   ► Because your home is a thing that doesn't go places, right?

01:39:47 ◼   ► So what is it going to control?

01:39:51 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:39:51 ◼   ► Everything.

01:39:52 ◼   ► Everything that's smart in your house, right?

01:39:54 ◼   ► And that-- but that it's--

01:39:57 ◼   ► and this idea isn't new, but people

01:40:00 ◼   ► don't talk about it anymore.

01:40:02 ◼   ► But what if it also was your Wi-Fi base station?

01:40:08 ◼   ► And that Mark Gurman's report that they're out