The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hey there, it's me, John Gruber, host of the talk show.

00:00:04 ◼   ► And I'm here to do a little introduction

00:00:06 ◼   ► for what is a very special episode.

00:00:09 ◼   ► I have an interview with Lisa Jackson,

00:00:12 ◼   ► Vice President at Apple of Environment Policy.

00:00:16 ◼   ► Pretty much everything Apple does

00:00:17 ◼   ► with regard to the environment.

00:00:18 ◼   ► I think it went great.

00:00:20 ◼   ► I think it was a fascinating interview.

00:00:21 ◼   ► She's super smart, super funny.

00:00:23 ◼   ► We talked for about an hour.

00:00:25 ◼   ► And it is interruption free.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Once I get going with Lisa,

00:00:29 ◼   ► It's just going to go straight through.

00:00:30 ◼   ► It's just under an hour.

00:00:32 ◼   ► And how is that possible?

00:00:33 ◼   ► It's made possible because we've made a deal

00:00:34 ◼   ► to have an exclusive sponsor for this episode.

00:00:38 ◼   ► I'm going to tell you about them right now.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Give me a minute of your time to tell you

00:00:41 ◼   ► about Circle with Disney.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Circle with Disney is a beautiful little device

00:00:47 ◼   ► designed for families to manage content and time online

00:00:51 ◼   ► for the kids and the whole family.

00:00:53 ◼   ► It lets you, it's not about controlling everything

00:00:56 ◼   ► your kid does on the internet,

00:00:58 ◼   ► But it's about giving you, the parent, some sort of say

00:01:01 ◼   ► in what they do online, how long they spend,

00:01:03 ◼   ► and when they do it.

00:01:05 ◼   ► What can it do?

00:01:05 ◼   ► It lets parents filter content, customizing what's available

00:01:08 ◼   ► and what's filtered by app, platform, and category.

00:01:11 ◼   ► You can set time limits for things like YouTube, Minecraft,

00:01:14 ◼   ► Facebook, Netflix, and even Snapchat.

00:01:16 ◼   ► If your kids are staying up too late on the internet,

00:01:19 ◼   ► you can set bedtime for each kid and their devices.

00:01:22 ◼   ► And they have something called Insights,

00:01:24 ◼   ► which is sort of an analysis of what everybody in your family

00:01:27 ◼   ► is doing online when they do it, sort of an accounting.

00:01:32 ◼   ► So you can see just how much time your family

00:01:34 ◼   ► is spending on the internet.

00:01:36 ◼   ► What about 4G?

00:01:37 ◼   ► What about LTE?

00:01:38 ◼   ► They have a separate product called Circle Go,

00:01:41 ◼   ► which you can install on your kid's smartphone.

00:01:43 ◼   ► And it gives you the same sort of control over their access

00:01:46 ◼   ► when they're on the cellular network or any other Wi-Fi

00:01:48 ◼   ► network other than your own.

00:01:50 ◼   ► So here's the deal.

00:01:51 ◼   ► You buy the Circle with Disney.

00:01:52 ◼   ► It's this little device that plugs right in to your router.

00:01:55 ◼   ► works with just about any modern Wi-Fi router in your house.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Could not be easier to set up, and it could not

00:02:00 ◼   ► be easier to manage.

00:02:02 ◼   ► This is not something that turns you, as a parent,

00:02:04 ◼   ► into a system administrator setting up some kind

00:02:06 ◼   ► of complicated network.

00:02:07 ◼   ► No, it's meant for non-technical parents.

00:02:09 ◼   ► It's total Disney style interface.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Really great product.

00:02:13 ◼   ► You can get it at Amazon, Best Buy, Target.

00:02:18 ◼   ► And online, you can go to their website, meetcircle.com.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Now, that's not like beef.

00:02:23 ◼   ► It's not M-E-A-T. It's M-E-E-T.

00:02:24 ◼   ► like you're meeting them meet circle calm use the code the talk show at meet

00:02:31 ◼   ► circle calm and you'll get free shipping and $10 off your circle with Disney

00:02:36 ◼   ► device they're a proud sponsor of the talk show they sponsored before and

00:02:39 ◼   ► they're very much excited to be the sponsor of this show because Disney is

00:02:44 ◼   ► very encouraged by Lisa Jackson's efforts at Apple around environmental

00:02:47 ◼   ► policy and her work on Apple's connect ed program so they're very excited to be

00:02:53 ◼   ► the sponsor of the show, exclusive. So my thanks to them. And then here we go, away

00:02:59 ◼   ► with the show. So we met briefly a few weeks ago when I was on campus for the

00:03:06 ◼   ► Mac Pro thing, and the first words out of your mouth were...

00:03:11 ◼   ► We talked about Jekyll and baseball. You said, "How can a guy from Philly be a

00:03:17 ◼   ► Yankees fan. That's true. That's true. I don't understand that at all. But all right, you

00:03:24 ◼   ► can be if you want to. A Mets fan. Mets for life. Are there any Yankees fans at Apple?

00:03:29 ◼   ► I get it from Schiller. He's a Red Sox fan. Steve Dowling, Red Sox fan. And now I found

00:03:35 ◼   ► out you're a Mets fan. Yeah, I married into the Mets and I can't ever be without them.

00:03:40 ◼   ► But yeah, I don't know. If they're around, maybe they're just not holding their head

00:03:44 ◼   ► up too high these days. I'm sure they're all gonna come and find me after this airs, but they're here.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Well, if there are any Yankees fans at Apple, you should go after Lisa Jackson. Thanks. That's all I

00:03:58 ◼   ► need. There aren't any people in the world going after Lisa Jackson, so let's just add them to the

00:04:02 ◼   ► list. We won't talk baseball, but so far so good for both the Yankees and Mets. They're both off

00:04:08 ◼   ► to a good start.

00:04:09 ◼   ► So neither of us really has anything

00:04:12 ◼   ► to rib the other about.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Always about the bullpen, right?

00:04:16 ◼   ► But we'll see.

00:04:17 ◼   ► OK.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Well, we'll keep our fingers crossed.

00:04:19 ◼   ► And hopefully I won't talk to you later

00:04:21 ◼   ► if things go the wrong way.

00:04:23 ◼   ► We are talking because this episode will

00:04:26 ◼   ► air right before Earth Day.

00:04:29 ◼   ► And Earth Day is big.

00:04:31 ◼   ► Starting to do an annual celebration for Apple.

00:04:33 ◼   ► You guys have announcements that coincide with Earth Day

00:04:37 ◼   ► every year now.

00:04:38 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right. It's something we started back in 2014.

00:04:44 ◼   ► This year, I have notes here. Let me make sure I don't miss anything. By the time this

00:04:52 ◼   ► episode airs, your 2017 Environmental Responsibility Report will be out, and you have a big announcement

00:04:59 ◼   ► there, which is that you guys are setting a new goal, which is a closed-loop supply

00:05:05 ◼   ► chain. Can you tell me what that means?

00:05:07 ◼   ► - That sounds so technical.

00:05:09 ◼   ► You know, what we've said is that,

00:05:12 ◼   ► for years now we've said that one of our three priorities

00:05:15 ◼   ► is to really recognize the fact that the resources

00:05:19 ◼   ► that we use to make our products are finite,

00:05:22 ◼   ► just by definition.

00:05:23 ◼   ► And the world has been looking for a while at this idea

00:05:27 ◼   ► of trying to close the loop on supply chains.

00:05:29 ◼   ► So if you think about most supply chains,

00:05:31 ◼   ► and ours is very complex, I'm gonna oversimplify you,

00:05:35 ◼   ► you mine something out of the earth,

00:05:36 ◼   ► you source it, usually it comes from the earth somehow, it's a finite resource.

00:05:41 ◼   ► And then you manufacture, you produce it, obviously there are many, many people involved

00:05:45 ◼   ► in the manufacture of our products.

00:05:47 ◼   ► People use them, they buy them, they use them, that's great, hopefully they use them for

00:05:50 ◼   ► a very long time, they get all their software upgrades, everything's wonderful, but at some

00:05:55 ◼   ► point you have to discard it.

00:05:57 ◼   ► And Apple spent a lot of time and effort over the years, for many years, on the recycling

00:06:03 ◼   ► you know, being able to try to bring used electronics in and recycle them.

00:06:09 ◼   ► But the frustrating part of that has been, you know, that's still a line.

00:06:13 ◼   ► When it's time to make more products, many of our suppliers still go back to the mines,

00:06:18 ◼   ► if you will, go back to the earth.

00:06:20 ◼   ► So one of the things we've set our sights on, and I have to start by saying this is

00:06:24 ◼   ► a very long-term goal, and it's not like us to announce goals way out into the future,

00:06:29 ◼   ► but it's sort of a north star for us, is to start to close that loop, to say, "Can we

00:06:34 ◼   ► use recycled material, maybe our recycled material, but recycled material in general,

00:06:40 ◼   ► to be more of the feedstocks for our suppliers, for the components that make up our products?"

00:06:45 ◼   ► So if you think about that for a second, it requires all of us working together.

00:06:50 ◼   ► It's kind of a systems problem, everything from design to engineering to manufacturing

00:06:55 ◼   ► to procurement, all those relationships with suppliers.

00:07:00 ◼   ► But it's really something kind of cool for us.

00:07:02 ◼   ► We've sort of worked with a lot of the folks who

00:07:05 ◼   ► do the work here.

00:07:06 ◼   ► And I think all of us think it's just

00:07:07 ◼   ► a fun and really important time to focus on resources.

00:07:12 ◼   ► What are-- you said you have-- there's

00:07:14 ◼   ► three priorities, three main priorities at Apple

00:07:16 ◼   ► in this regard.

00:07:17 ◼   ► What are those three priorities?

00:07:19 ◼   ► So they haven't changed, and I don't think they will.

00:07:21 ◼   ► The first is to address climate change.

00:07:24 ◼   ► And I say it really broadly that way

00:07:27 ◼   ► because it's not to zero out our carbon footprint

00:07:31 ◼   ► or to become carbon neutral,

00:07:33 ◼   ► but really to look at climate change

00:07:35 ◼   ► as a problem that the world is facing,

00:07:37 ◼   ► really the largest environmental

00:07:38 ◼   ► and environmental health problem

00:07:40 ◼   ► and economic problem in many places.

00:07:42 ◼   ► We now see it's another big systems problem.

00:07:46 ◼   ► And so to address it,

00:07:49 ◼   ► obviously the way to address it is energy efficiency,

00:07:52 ◼   ► more renewable energy, cleaner energy on the grid,

00:07:55 ◼   ► moving to a low carbon world.

00:07:58 ◼   ► And so we take really seriously our responsibility

00:08:01 ◼   ► to first start at home.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Apple is 100% renewably powered in 24 countries,

00:08:08 ◼   ► including our own, I'm sorry, is 96% renewably powered.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I'm about to get in trouble here.

00:08:14 ◼   ► In 24 countries, we're 100%.

00:08:17 ◼   ► So in the US, we're 100% and 23 other countries.

00:08:21 ◼   ► but when you average it out around the world, we're at 96%.

00:08:24 ◼   ► And that includes our data centers, those are at 100%.

00:08:28 ◼   ► So all of our data centers, every time you send a message

00:08:32 ◼   ► or send a FaceTime video, you're using a data center

00:08:36 ◼   ► that's not contributing to climate change.

00:08:39 ◼   ► And it includes our offices, our new office, Apple Park,

00:08:42 ◼   ► of course, being one of those.

00:08:44 ◼   ► So 96%, we're really proud of.

00:08:48 ◼   ► So climate change is number one.

00:08:50 ◼   ► We talked a little bit about resources, number two.

00:08:54 ◼   ► And our third one kind of goes back to something

00:08:57 ◼   ► that's been in our history for a long time,

00:08:59 ◼   ► and that's to use greener materials to remove toxic materials

00:09:04 ◼   ► usually well ahead of the game.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Apple removed halogenated compounds

00:09:10 ◼   ► from our products years ago.

00:09:12 ◼   ► And so we wanted to sort of honor this history

00:09:15 ◼   ► that Apple has had of pioneering the use of greener,

00:09:18 ◼   ► safer, better materials, and then keep that as one of our priorities. Because

00:09:24 ◼   ► there's a lot of people here very proud of the work they do to accomplish, for

00:09:28 ◼   ► example, PVC free power cords. Yes, and that's become, you can bank on it,

00:09:37 ◼   ► a hallmark of every product introduction event is at some point

00:09:43 ◼   ► there's going to be that green checklist, and it's not something that gets rushed

00:09:47 ◼   ► through. It is, let's pause for a second. We want to tell you how awesome this product is,

00:09:52 ◼   ► but we want to pause right now and just say, look at this. It's PVC free, this free, that free.

00:09:59 ◼   ► That's become a, you can bank on it for every product.

00:10:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm almost hoping it gets to the point where everyone says it along with us. And, you know,

00:10:08 ◼   ► because Phil Schiller is usually the one who does it. The secretary explaining things, I call him.

00:10:17 ◼   ► But, you know, he usually takes the time to really explain, you know, the products and

00:10:22 ◼   ► all they do.

00:10:23 ◼   ► And it makes me really proud that he always insists that one of the things he wants to

00:10:26 ◼   ► explain is the time that it takes.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I mean, are the materials that aren't in there.

00:10:32 ◼   ► And I think it's partially because he realizes how much deep innovation and engineering it

00:10:37 ◼   ► takes to make those decisions, to take those materials out.

00:10:41 ◼   ► And a lot of times with pollution, it's, you know, you're talking about the stuff that

00:10:45 ◼   ► didn't happen.

00:10:46 ◼   ► So that can be a hard thing for most people to appreciate or understand, but it's always

00:10:51 ◼   ► really cool that Apple takes the time to do that.

00:10:55 ◼   ► And part of what makes it difficult for Apple in particular is that Apple has very high

00:11:02 ◼   ► standards.

00:11:03 ◼   ► What the company is known for in consumers' minds, part of the brand, is that their stuff

00:11:07 ◼   ► is very nice.

00:11:09 ◼   ► It is nice in terms of, it just looks nice, it feels nice.

00:11:14 ◼   ► And sometimes, I think in the past, some of the reason that some of these substances and

00:11:20 ◼   ► materials that were used that are not environmentally friendly were used, it was because such and

00:11:26 ◼   ► such thing makes the glass shinier or something like that.

00:11:29 ◼   ► And so it's for Apple, it's not, we can't just get rid of, it's like you can't just

00:11:32 ◼   ► get rid of it.

00:11:35 ◼   ► You have to get rid of it and still keep the standards for the devices and the quality

00:11:39 ◼   ► of the materials as high as possible.

00:11:42 ◼   ► And I think that's true.

00:11:43 ◼   ► True. I mean, I wasn't in the labs when work was being done.

00:11:47 ◼   ► I think there's also an element of sort of that's the way it's always been done.

00:11:51 ◼   ► So power cords is a great example.

00:11:55 ◼   ► You know, do you need polyvinyl chloride in the power cord in order to

00:11:59 ◼   ► make it strong enough and safe enough? Well, pretty much around the world,

00:12:03 ◼   ► Apple has worked to get certified power cords that don't have them.

00:12:07 ◼   ► They do feel different. They are softer. But there's a really important reason

00:12:11 ◼   ► why, which is that those materials are never introduced anywhere in the supply,

00:12:15 ◼   ► which is really sort of a prevention of pollution for our workers and for the

00:12:20 ◼   ► communities where manufacturing happens. I think it's also a bit of a nod

00:12:26 ◼   ► to the folks in the environmental testing and technologies group. You know,

00:12:31 ◼   ► we have an environmental testing lab here and it's grown over the years. I was

00:12:36 ◼   ► actually there yesterday, day before, can't even remember, the week is going by fast.

00:12:42 ◼   ► But you know, we also have to test the parts that we get, and one of the things we've been

00:12:47 ◼   ► doing is testing, so far I think it's over 20,000 individual parts, because a lot of

00:12:52 ◼   ► things end up in a part. We might specify how we want the part to behave and what we

00:12:57 ◼   ► want in it, but a lot of times there is material that are in there that maybe you don't need,

00:13:02 ◼   ► or maybe you don't realize, or maybe we want to make sure

00:13:05 ◼   ► it is substituted out.

00:13:06 ◼   ► And so we're also spending a lot of time,

00:13:08 ◼   ► it's almost like our own little DNA project,

00:13:11 ◼   ► you know, learning and understanding intimately

00:13:14 ◼   ► what are in the parts that we get from our suppliers.

00:13:17 ◼   ► - One of the things, I don't want to skip around too much,

00:13:21 ◼   ► but-- - Okay.

00:13:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:23 ◼   ► I tend to do that, so.

00:13:24 ◼   ► - Part, I do too, I do too.

00:13:26 ◼   ► But a lot of this stuff is interrelated.

00:13:28 ◼   ► It's like all of a sudden we're talking about

00:13:31 ◼   ► the materials that are used in these devices,

00:13:35 ◼   ► and it leads you immediately to talking about aspects

00:13:38 ◼   ► of the supply chain.

00:13:41 ◼   ► But part of the news this week is a series

00:13:44 ◼   ► of four short videos, animated videos, by James Blagdon.

00:13:49 ◼   ► And I got a sneak look at them ahead of this so I can see it.

00:13:52 ◼   ► But by the time the show airs, they'll be out.

00:13:54 ◼   ► And they're really kind of interesting,

00:13:56 ◼   ► but they cover different aspects of it.

00:13:59 ◼   ► One of them covers the goal of having no--

00:14:07 ◼   ► correct me if I'm wrong, but the goal

00:14:08 ◼   ► is to have no waste going to landfills from the supply

00:14:12 ◼   ► chain?

00:14:13 ◼   ► Yeah, right now the video covers our final assembly facilities.

00:14:17 ◼   ► So that's why you'll see in the video an emphasis on material

00:14:23 ◼   ► coming in, which is what happens at those facilities.

00:14:26 ◼   ► A lot of material and parts come in,

00:14:28 ◼   ► and then they're assembled and a product goes out the door.

00:14:31 ◼   ► But yeah, so the emphasis is on this idea.

00:14:34 ◼   ► And it's not a new idea, but I think Apple is really

00:14:37 ◼   ► embracing it.

00:14:38 ◼   ► We have facilities now, all of our final assembly facilities

00:14:43 ◼   ► in--

00:14:45 ◼   ► we have a facility in Cork.

00:14:46 ◼   ► We have facilities in China.

00:14:48 ◼   ► We have a facility in Brazil.

00:14:50 ◼   ► And our facility here in California

00:14:52 ◼   ► are now certified by UL as zero waste.

00:14:57 ◼   ► And it was, you know, this classic environment versus, you know, economy argument that's so false.

00:15:06 ◼   ► And it was so evident because the reason this started was looking at a problem and thinking,

00:15:11 ◼   ► oh, we just got all this material in its waste and thinking, oh, the answer is recycling.

00:15:16 ◼   ► But really, the answer is to think smart about why are so many things coming in but leaving empty?

00:15:22 ◼   ► And can they go back?

00:15:23 ◼   ► Can you take a pallet or can you take a tray that contains material and send it back so

00:15:28 ◼   ► it can be used over and over again?

00:15:31 ◼   ► And that saves money.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Some people really embraced it.

00:15:35 ◼   ► It's not always easy to see that path towards saving money, but everybody feels really good

00:15:41 ◼   ► about the idea of not having to send waste to a landfill in order to produce our products.

00:15:48 ◼   ► In other words, it's sort of, in the common sense

00:15:52 ◼   ► of the word, it's kind of like a simpler form of recycling,

00:15:55 ◼   ► where instead of having, and again,

00:15:58 ◼   ► you think about the magnitude of it,

00:16:00 ◼   ► and sometimes it just boggles the mind

00:16:03 ◼   ► where they're talking about assembly facility

00:16:06 ◼   ► that is turning out 150,000 iPhones a day, which is crazy.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And you just think, well, every single one of those iPhones

00:16:13 ◼   ► has a touch ID sensor, and it comes in a tray.

00:16:17 ◼   ► And if you can just have those trays that were used to deliver the touch ID sensors

00:16:23 ◼   ► in the morning go back out and the same tray is being used to deliver the touch ID sensor

00:16:29 ◼   ► in the afternoon, it's sort of like recycling without actually having to go through all

00:16:33 ◼   ► the process of actually remulching the material and turning it into a new tray.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Why turn a tray that was used once into another tray when you could just reuse the tray?

00:16:45 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:16:46 ◼   ► I mean, it's that old adage of reduce, reuse, and recycle is part of it, but it shouldn't

00:16:52 ◼   ► be the first place we go.

00:16:55 ◼   ► And I kind of like the way you're explaining it, because part of our thought of these videos

00:17:00 ◼   ► was, you know, not everyone at home has a final assembly facility, but they do have

00:17:05 ◼   ► the opportunity to think the same way about the waste that they might produce.

00:17:12 ◼   ► And we really wanted to connect our customers first to what we do, but also maybe to spark

00:17:19 ◼   ► in them the thoughts of, "Hey, that's a really interesting way of thinking about life in

00:17:24 ◼   ► general, and maybe it applies a little to me.

00:17:27 ◼   ► Maybe they won't make that connection."

00:17:28 ◼   ► But really just sort of make it simple, maybe thought-provoking, and to reach people where

00:17:34 ◼   ► they are.

00:17:35 ◼   ► But also it gave us a chance, the video you're talking about gave John a chance to tell his

00:17:41 ◼   ► story.

00:17:42 ◼   ► cool stories at Apple of people who don't have to, but want to do the right thing and

00:17:47 ◼   ► figure out through maybe a little bit of trial and error.

00:17:51 ◼   ► John has a little bit of a trial and error moment in that short video, but they figure

00:17:56 ◼   ► out what to do.

00:17:57 ◼   ► And then the beauty of Apple, of course, is once we figure out what to do, we learn how

00:18:02 ◼   ► to do it at scale pretty quickly.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I've noticed it.

00:18:06 ◼   ► My son is in seventh grade, and it's not like a rule.

00:18:10 ◼   ► It's not like they're told everybody has to come in with it, but as far as I can tell,

00:18:13 ◼   ► every kid comes into school every day with a thermos or an aluminum water bottle.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And so for drinking water, nobody brings in the retail bottles of water.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Every kid comes in with a little thermos that they just fill with cold water at the beginning

00:18:31 ◼   ► of the day.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yeah, and they don't see it, right?

00:18:34 ◼   ► I'm guessing your son doesn't see it as a pain or anything weird.

00:18:39 ◼   ► actually just thinks of it as the way to drink water.

00:18:41 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:18:42 ◼   ► No, it doesn't.

00:18:43 ◼   ► My son is considerably older than yours, but I was talking to him yesterday, and I said,

00:18:49 ◼   ► "What did you have for lunch?"

00:18:50 ◼   ► I didn't eat.

00:18:51 ◼   ► I said, "Oh."

00:18:52 ◼   ► So then as a mom, I'm upset.

00:18:53 ◼   ► But then I'm like, "What did you do?"

00:18:54 ◼   ► He's like, "I drank water all day."

00:18:56 ◼   ► I was like, "How do you do that?"

00:18:57 ◼   ► He said, "I brought a water bottle from home, Ma.

00:18:59 ◼   ► Just like, leave me alone."

00:19:01 ◼   ► But it's not a big deal, and it's not seen as like you don't need to buy this bottled

00:19:08 ◼   ► It's right there. It's for us. It's actually one of the blessings we have in this country is a

00:19:13 ◼   ► Mostly secure supply a clean drinking water. Yeah, but it's it that's exactly it though

00:19:18 ◼   ► It just seems it just comes naturally to two kids today

00:19:21 ◼   ► It doesn't it doesn't seem like they they don't even see it as like oh, I'm doing my good deed for the environment

00:19:26 ◼   ► It's just this just makes sense

00:19:28 ◼   ► Absolutely, and I sometimes wonder like what things what other things will be that way. I know climate change will be that way

00:19:37 ◼   ► So but you know you just you wonder what other things will sort of be baked in with an ethic

00:19:42 ◼   ► That's a lot more thoughtful about the planet and sort of your role in the planet

00:19:46 ◼   ► One of the other videos

00:19:50 ◼   ► Again, skipping around a little bit, but it's okay. It's all in your purview

00:19:54 ◼   ► one of them focused on the new

00:19:58 ◼   ► Apple Park and how the the building is

00:20:05 ◼   ► I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's an innovative design to cooling, that it's

00:20:13 ◼   ► a combination of cold water running through pipes and sort of a breathable, let the wind

00:20:19 ◼   ► blow through the building to circulate.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Can you tell me more about that?

00:20:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:26 ◼   ► You know, so these will be out and hopefully everybody will see them.

00:20:29 ◼   ► But if you haven't seen the building with Dan Wisenhunt, who's done a lot of the work

00:20:35 ◼   ► overseeing the construction of Apple Park, Dan talks about the way the building was designed

00:20:45 ◼   ► by Foster and Partners to be a breathing building.

00:20:48 ◼   ► And he does a lovely job, and Blagdon does a great job of sort of illustrating the idea

00:20:53 ◼   ► of here's the typical building, and here's how this one works.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Now, you know, we have kind of a, we have an advantage.

00:21:01 ◼   ► First off, we're in, you know, Silicon Valley in Cupertino,

00:21:06 ◼   ► and the climate here is mild,

00:21:09 ◼   ► although it can get pretty warm in the summer.

00:21:11 ◼   ► It's not New Orleans hot, like what I'm used to,

00:21:13 ◼   ► but it's hot, you get warm, but 75% of--

00:21:17 ◼   ► - I was gonna mention Philadelphia humidity,

00:21:19 ◼   ► but you trumped me with New Orleans.

00:21:21 ◼   ► - You know, I think they're almost the same.

00:21:23 ◼   ► It's the same as DC.

00:21:24 ◼   ► People say, "Oh, New Orleans is so hot,"

00:21:26 ◼   ► And I'm like, no, it's not as hot in the summer

00:21:28 ◼   ► when it's humid.

00:21:29 ◼   ► There's just nothing like it.

00:21:31 ◼   ► But you know, 75% of the time at Apple Park,

00:21:35 ◼   ► we're estimating that there won't be a need

00:21:37 ◼   ► for additional air conditioning.

00:21:39 ◼   ► And you're right, the building sort of is designed

00:21:41 ◼   ► to have this flow of air.

00:21:43 ◼   ► It would be sort of convection into the building

00:21:47 ◼   ► through these louvers and then past concrete

00:21:50 ◼   ► that has cool water circulating in it.

00:21:53 ◼   ► And that should be enough.

00:21:54 ◼   ► And it is also designed to have a lot of air do that.

00:21:57 ◼   ► And so, you know, there's lots of studies that show

00:22:01 ◼   ► that sort of outside air, sun,

00:22:04 ◼   ► sort of is actually the environment we humans

00:22:07 ◼   ► are meant to be in,

00:22:07 ◼   ► not these artificially conditioned environment.

00:22:11 ◼   ► And the building is on track to be certified

00:22:15 ◼   ► by the US Green Building Council as LEED Platinum.

00:22:18 ◼   ► That's their highest certification for environment

00:22:22 ◼   ► and energy efficiency and smartness.

00:22:25 ◼   ► And so we're really proud of that

00:22:26 ◼   ► 'cause it includes the R&D facilities.

00:22:28 ◼   ► It's really a R&D park as much as it's an office building.

00:22:32 ◼   ► So it's gonna be exciting.

00:22:34 ◼   ► I'm thrilled for the day we actually move in,

00:22:38 ◼   ► although I know it's gonna be a little bit of madness,

00:22:40 ◼   ► but it'd be awful fun.

00:22:42 ◼   ► - Moving is always madness.

00:22:44 ◼   ► Moving the world's largest corporation across town

00:22:48 ◼   ► is really, I don't know.

00:22:50 ◼   ► - What could go wrong, really?

00:22:52 ◼   ► All right, here's a question that I have.

00:22:57 ◼   ► And I would like, explain it to me like I'm an idiot.

00:23:02 ◼   ► What it means, what renewable energy means in the sense of 96% of your operations are

00:23:10 ◼   ► running on renewable energy and in 24 countries, 100%.

00:23:14 ◼   ► Explain to me what that means and why I should care.

00:23:18 ◼   ► So, you know, we set a goal to run on 100% renewable

00:23:23 ◼   ► for all of our operations.

00:23:24 ◼   ► And I just want to say, notably, we set a goal

00:23:27 ◼   ► from the beginning to run data centers on renewable energy.

00:23:30 ◼   ► You should care because climate change is real,

00:23:33 ◼   ► it's happening, and any responsible company

00:23:36 ◼   ► ought to be thinking about its role in solving that problem.

00:23:41 ◼   ► It's just that simple to me.

00:23:43 ◼   ► I mean, you know, Tim talks a lot about companies

00:23:45 ◼   ► are made of people and companies have values

00:23:48 ◼   ► they should stand for things.

00:23:49 ◼   ► And this company has said very clearly that one of the things we stand for is taking care

00:23:54 ◼   ► of our environment.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I don't think that's in any way partisan either.

00:24:00 ◼   ► I think most people would say less pollution is good, more pollution is bad, but also the

00:24:06 ◼   ► idea that having the planet and having the resources of the planet around for future

00:24:11 ◼   ► generations is really important.

00:24:14 ◼   ► And then you're a parent, but I think many of us think about our obligation to future

00:24:19 ◼   ► generations not to leave a place that's heading to the point where the only option is to recolonize

00:24:26 ◼   ► or colonize another planet.

00:24:28 ◼   ► It just doesn't seem like a parental thing to do.

00:24:33 ◼   ► And so there's all kinds of reasons, and I could wax all day about climate change.

00:24:38 ◼   ► But what we said is, look, ideally, we are not a power company.

00:24:42 ◼   ► We are not a utility.

00:24:44 ◼   ► If the world was where we want it to be today, there'd be a utility saying, "Hey, what kind

00:24:49 ◼   ► of power do you want to buy?"

00:24:50 ◼   ► "Okay, sure, here, I'll sell it to you.

00:24:52 ◼   ► That would be awesome."

00:24:53 ◼   ► We don't have that choice everywhere.

00:24:55 ◼   ► So Apple has the ability to do a little bit more.

00:24:58 ◼   ► So in general, we know how much energy we use in a particular country, in a particular

00:25:03 ◼   ► region, and our goal is to put that much or more clean energy onto the grid where we use

00:25:10 ◼   ► it.

00:25:11 ◼   ► So a couple of things, the idea has to be new clean energy.

00:25:15 ◼   ► So we don't want to just come in and buy all the available clean energy, because then there's

00:25:19 ◼   ► nothing left for somebody else to buy.

00:25:21 ◼   ► That doesn't seem very fair.

00:25:23 ◼   ► And wherever possible, to displace dirtier energy.

00:25:27 ◼   ► So because we're there, there's this new clean energy, and maybe it means you don't need

00:25:32 ◼   ► as much of the more polluting forms of energy.

00:25:37 ◼   ► And then we try to be very fastidious about quantifying that, so we true up at the end

00:25:43 ◼   ► of every year.

00:25:44 ◼   ► So when people ask me, "Well, that means you're not always using the exact clean energy

00:25:51 ◼   ► electron that you generate," because we have solar powers on top of Apple Park, we have

00:25:56 ◼   ► solar farm at our data centers, we have wind power that we purchase here in California,

00:26:02 ◼   ► We even have like micro-hydro projects in Oregon.

00:26:07 ◼   ► We don't always have that connection.

00:26:08 ◼   ► It has to go through the grid, and the grid plays an important role, but it's like an

00:26:13 ◼   ► ATM.

00:26:14 ◼   ► We make sure we're putting enough clean energy, new clean energy in to cover what we have

00:26:19 ◼   ► to take out.

00:26:20 ◼   ► And although that's not the absolute optimum, to us it feels like if every company did that,

00:26:25 ◼   ► we'd have a lot more clean energy on the grid and demanded on the grid, and that would displace

00:26:31 ◼   ► brown power. Is it a source of frustration for you, either in

00:26:40 ◼   ► your current role, specifically at one company, Apple, or looking even broader

00:26:47 ◼   ► at your career and previously, for anybody who doesn't know, for the first

00:26:52 ◼   ► four years of the Obama administration, you were the head of the EPA. Is it a

00:26:57 ◼   ► source of frustration for you that more companies don't seem to have as high a priority on using

00:27:05 ◼   ► renewable energy?

00:27:08 ◼   ► You know, I think companies are moving in that direction.

00:27:11 ◼   ► You know, what we always knew at EPA was really clear to me here is, you know, a business

00:27:17 ◼   ► needs certainty and has to make decisions based on where policy is going, where it thinks

00:27:25 ◼   ► the world is going.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And it has been really clear to most big, you know, multinational companies, I think,

00:27:31 ◼   ► for some time that we're going to be living in a carbon-constrained future.

00:27:37 ◼   ► It's not clear how it's going to be constrained.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I mean, there's the Paris Climate Accords.

00:27:41 ◼   ► There are all kinds of policy discussions going on around the world about how to get

00:27:45 ◼   ► to lower carbon.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And some countries are in the middle of that transformation in a very big way.

00:27:52 ◼   ► So I think a lot of companies over the last eight to ten years had to decide what to do

00:27:58 ◼   ► and have made the decision to incorporate energy efficiency, of course, because that's

00:28:03 ◼   ► cheaper and cleaner, but also renewable energy.

00:28:08 ◼   ► And that's true in states like Texas, certainly in states like California, but we have a big

00:28:13 ◼   ► data center in Nevada.

00:28:15 ◼   ► It's true there.

00:28:17 ◼   ► We have a big data center in North Carolina, which is on its third solar farm now.

00:28:23 ◼   ► So you know, I don't...

00:28:27 ◼   ► When I left EPA, the one thing I thought was, because I'm an engineer, a chemical engineer

00:28:31 ◼   ► by training actually, around all these computer science and electrical engineers, so go figure.

00:28:37 ◼   ► But you know, I wanted to go back to my roots and sort of say, I believe, I've always believed

00:28:44 ◼   ► that business has not just a role, but a responsibility.

00:28:48 ◼   ► Part of the reason I became an engineer, or an environmental sort of engineer, is that

00:28:54 ◼   ► I remember being in school and thinking, as a chemical engineer, we make all this hazardous

00:28:59 ◼   ► waste.

00:29:00 ◼   ► Chemical engineers should be responsible as a profession for stopping this problem.

00:29:05 ◼   ► And so I think that's sort of how we think of it here.

00:29:08 ◼   ► And I think more companies are seeing it that way.

00:29:11 ◼   ► It is a little depressing that there's some old thinking out there still, which is you

00:29:15 ◼   ► can either have economic growth or you can have a clean environment, but that's old-fashioned

00:29:21 ◼   ► thinking.

00:29:22 ◼   ► We really need people to sort of look beyond that and really think about the problem and

00:29:27 ◼   ► innovate around it.

00:29:29 ◼   ► That's something, and again, I'm very much a layperson in the expertise on this, but

00:29:35 ◼   ► At a common-sense level, it frustrates me to hear that argument of economic growth being

00:29:44 ◼   ► tied to "we can't spend money on... we have to do things the cheapest way possible right

00:29:50 ◼   ► now," which would be to continue using fossil fuels and just spewing carbon into the air,

00:29:57 ◼   ► versus "it's like an idealism that we can't afford to go to cleaner and renewable sources."

00:30:04 ◼   ► What frustrates me with that argument is that,

00:30:07 ◼   ► isn't that where all this opportunity is,

00:30:10 ◼   ► where new companies, or even existing companies could,

00:30:13 ◼   ► like existing energy companies,

00:30:16 ◼   ► could stand to make a fortune

00:30:18 ◼   ► if they make major breakthroughs in renewable energy?

00:30:21 ◼   ► - Well, sound like an environmental and energy expert

00:30:25 ◼   ► to me, John.

00:30:26 ◼   ► I mean, it's not surprising you see it,

00:30:28 ◼   ► because you're also used to the thinking in the valley,

00:30:33 ◼   ► And it's not only in the valley, but this idea that,

00:30:36 ◼   ► we need to apply the same level of innovation

00:30:41 ◼   ► to the environment and our work to protect the planet

00:30:44 ◼   ► as we do to the other work that we do,

00:30:46 ◼   ► in Apple's case to our products.

00:30:47 ◼   ► And as soon as you start to see innovation

00:30:51 ◼   ► as the way forward, then you realize

00:30:54 ◼   ► that the only limitation is our imagination,

00:30:58 ◼   ► our creativity and our persistence,

00:31:01 ◼   ► the sweat you put into something.

00:31:02 ◼   ► So when we talk about wanting to use more recycled materials in our products,

00:31:07 ◼   ► it's about looking at a supply chain that right now is just not going to be sustainable over time.

00:31:12 ◼   ► There won't be enough, or some country might decide to, you know, control the supply of materials needed,

00:31:19 ◼   ► and the price just goes up. So how can we get ahead of that?

00:31:23 ◼   ► It's all about innovation and not looking--

00:31:27 ◼   ► I also like to say, because I am a little bit of a nerd, that the thing about an engineer

00:31:33 ◼   ► is that engineers wake up, and at Apple it's absolutely true, we wake up when you give

00:31:37 ◼   ► us a hard problem, and we look at it as a challenge.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And if I have one complaint about my profession, it's that we need to continue to include

00:31:48 ◼   ► the idea of ethics.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Like, you know, solving the problem, part of the elegant solution has to be thinking

00:31:54 ◼   ► about whether it's truly a sustainable one.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Economically sustainable, yes,

00:31:59 ◼   ► but who's being harmed in this solution?

00:32:02 ◼   ► And I think good companies are there,

00:32:03 ◼   ► and I hope that customers start to expect

00:32:07 ◼   ► and demand that of companies,

00:32:08 ◼   ► because right now I really believe

00:32:11 ◼   ► that a lot of the leadership that we're gonna see

00:32:13 ◼   ► on these issues has to come from businesses

00:32:15 ◼   ► who stand up and dispute this idea

00:32:18 ◼   ► that they need to pollute in order to profit.

00:32:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I hope at least that it sort of changes

00:32:27 ◼   ► from consumers, maybe like environmentally conscious

00:32:32 ◼   ► consumers, a smaller niche of them if you will,

00:32:36 ◼   ► keeping a white list of a handful of good companies

00:32:40 ◼   ► who are environmentally conscious to more of a broader,

00:32:44 ◼   ► here's a black list of companies who are clearly

00:32:47 ◼   ► disregarding the environment in their actions

00:32:49 ◼   ► and operations, I'm not going to do business with them

00:32:52 ◼   ► because I find that offensive.

00:32:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like a gray-green list, you know, khaki.

00:32:58 ◼   ► I think, but yeah, absolutely.

00:32:59 ◼   ► You know, I just, I agree with you.

00:33:01 ◼   ► And I also don't think, I think consumers are, you know,

00:33:06 ◼   ► sort of confused too, because you have companies

00:33:09 ◼   ► of all stripes standing up and claiming,

00:33:11 ◼   ► especially this week, you know, as we roll into Earth Day,

00:33:15 ◼   ► how, you know, sort of putting forth their green credentials

00:33:18 ◼   ► and Apple's no different.

00:33:20 ◼   ► So I think it tends to make people a bit cynical.

00:33:23 ◼   ► So part of the videos was also opening up a little and showing that all these claims

00:33:29 ◼   ► you make take work and effort.

00:33:31 ◼   ► And all these promises that we make, we try not to make them if we don't know how we're

00:33:37 ◼   ► going to get there, but in some cases, they require a lot of persistence.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And so one of the frustrations I've had also is, frankly, there's a lot of people out there

00:33:48 ◼   ► claim to say, you know, they make lists, everybody makes lists. But what I want people to know

00:33:53 ◼   ► is that for me, this company, Apple, is thinking, you know, years, decades ahead about how to

00:34:01 ◼   ► influence our sector, the tech sector, the consumer products sector, and make it better.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And leave the world, as Tim would say, leave the world better than we found it.

00:34:15 ◼   ► One of the other announcements you guys have this week is that in a partnership with the

00:34:21 ◼   ► WWF, which when I see it, I still think of the wrestling.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I do.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Well, they would not like to hear that.

00:34:28 ◼   ► I know.

00:34:29 ◼   ► I know.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Props to WWF.

00:34:31 ◼   ► But it's not the wrestling organization.

00:34:33 ◼   ► No, it's the World Wildlife.

00:34:35 ◼   ► Right.

00:34:36 ◼   ► And you guys, in partnership with them, have gotten over 300,000 acres of working forest

00:34:43 ◼   ► in China to be recommended for what's called the Forest Stewardship Council certification.

00:34:49 ◼   ► That means that Apple is now protecting and creating sustainable working forests as much

00:34:56 ◼   ► as is needed to cover your paper needs for the packaging that you guys make.

00:35:04 ◼   ► In plain English, does that mean that as much paper as you guys are using for packaging,

00:35:09 ◼   ► There's trees that are being regrown at the same rate that they're being used to turn

00:35:13 ◼   ► into paper.

00:35:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I like that.

00:35:16 ◼   ► You see, you should be in the videos because you're explaining stuff really well too.

00:35:21 ◼   ► Yeah, that's exactly it.

00:35:23 ◼   ► A while ago, actually I just started at Apple and the woman who runs packaging amongst other

00:35:29 ◼   ► things, Kate Bergeron, we were all at dinner having a glass of wine and she was like, "You

00:35:34 ◼   ► know, I've been thinking for a long time we should buy a forest."

00:35:38 ◼   ► And it was sort of my introduction to, you know, think different at Apple, this idea

00:35:42 ◼   ► that somebody who does packaging would go that far deep in her thinking, you know, really

00:35:48 ◼   ► analyzing the problem.

00:35:49 ◼   ► And of course, she was trying to get at that very problem, which is packaging is made out

00:35:54 ◼   ► of paper.

00:35:55 ◼   ► By the way, our packaging is increasingly almost entirely paper.

00:35:59 ◼   ► We've tried to phase out plastics, because we think paper can be a renewable resource.

00:36:05 ◼   ► And what if we controlled how that paper was, you know, how the wood was harvested and the

00:36:09 ◼   ► pulp was made?

00:36:12 ◼   ► And so we didn't buy the forest ourselves, but we found great partners.

00:36:17 ◼   ► In the U.S., we found a group called the Conservation Fund.

00:36:20 ◼   ► So we have 36,000 acres in Maine and North Carolina that they've worked to preserve and

00:36:25 ◼   ► ensure remain in sustainable forestry.

00:36:28 ◼   ► So working forest, yes, trees are chopped, but trees are also planted.

00:36:32 ◼   ► And then we found WWF in China, and there it's not a land ownership issue, it was a

00:36:38 ◼   ► management issue.

00:36:39 ◼   ► We have these big, basically paper, they call them plantations, and making sure that they

00:36:45 ◼   ► were being managed sustainably, which has been a goal of China's as well.

00:36:50 ◼   ► So we found the right partner.

00:36:51 ◼   ► They have some great people on the ground in China, Chinese folks who are really deeply

00:36:59 ◼   ► involved in working with these Chinese businesses.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And we're really proud of the fact that based on

00:37:05 ◼   ► the work they've done in just, I think about two years,

00:37:08 ◼   ► we've gotten to the point where those forests,

00:37:11 ◼   ► the three of them are producing enough sustainably

00:37:16 ◼   ► and responsibly managed wood to cover our needs.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Now we've also done something on the other end,

00:37:21 ◼   ► which is back to that old reduce, reuse, recycle.

00:37:24 ◼   ► We wanted to reduce how much virgin paper

00:37:27 ◼   ► we need for packaging.

00:37:29 ◼   ► So we've really upped our work on using recycled paper,

00:37:32 ◼   ► and we've also upped our work to make packaging smaller

00:37:36 ◼   ► and lighter whenever we can.

00:37:38 ◼   ► So we still have work to do.

00:37:40 ◼   ► You know, this is a long road,

00:37:42 ◼   ► and so I don't want it to sound like we're there,

00:37:44 ◼   ► but we're really proud of the fact

00:37:46 ◼   ► that this year we hit that milestone.

00:37:48 ◼   ► - And again, this is another one of those things

00:37:50 ◼   ► where the stakes are very high for Apple

00:37:52 ◼   ► because Apple products are known

00:37:55 ◼   ► for having beautiful packaging.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And so it's not enough to just say,

00:37:59 ◼   ► well, we'll take out the plastic

00:38:00 ◼   ► and we'll use cardboard or some kind of paper.

00:38:03 ◼   ► It has to be nice.

00:38:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it has to be more than nice, right?

00:38:06 ◼   ► I mean, I think that's maybe the thing

00:38:09 ◼   ► I didn't emphasize enough.

00:38:10 ◼   ► I don't, I didn't want to come here and do this

00:38:13 ◼   ► in a way where people felt they were giving something up

00:38:16 ◼   ► in order to do something good.

00:38:18 ◼   ► And I don't mean that to sound, you know,

00:38:20 ◼   ► it's sort of like, again, back to your son.

00:38:22 ◼   ► You know, he doesn't, he's doing something good,

00:38:24 ◼   ► but it doesn't change his experience.

00:38:26 ◼   ► he still feels really good, he's getting the water he needs.

00:38:29 ◼   ► I mean, for us here at Apple, we understand that, you know,

00:38:33 ◼   ► our customers love our products.

00:38:35 ◼   ► They feel emotionally attached to the experience,

00:38:37 ◼   ► all the way from taking it home to unboxing it,

00:38:41 ◼   ► to turning it on the first time, to seeing the hello,

00:38:44 ◼   ► all the way through use and upgrades.

00:38:47 ◼   ► So none of that is what we're trying to impact.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And in fact, we won't allow it to happen that way.

00:38:52 ◼   ► I don't think anybody here would allow us to impact that.

00:38:57 ◼   ► What we're trying to do is make sure people understand

00:38:59 ◼   ► that all these really smart people here

00:39:02 ◼   ► are thinking about ways to make it green and better

00:39:05 ◼   ► and produce without harming the planet.

00:39:09 ◼   ► So you don't have to.

00:39:10 ◼   ► So you can feel really good about the purchase

00:39:13 ◼   ► that you make so that you know that part

00:39:16 ◼   ► of making the best products in the world

00:39:19 ◼   ► is making the best products for the world.

00:39:21 ◼   ► - I would like to talk, this is an area

00:39:26 ◼   ► where I just don't know much about, about transportation.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Because just going back to that basic idea

00:39:31 ◼   ► of like an assembly plant in China

00:39:35 ◼   ► that's manufacturing 150,000 iPhones a day.

00:39:40 ◼   ► And let's say it's September and there's a new iPhone.

00:39:44 ◼   ► And the day that it comes out,

00:39:47 ◼   ► There are millions of UPS drivers around North America

00:39:52 ◼   ► ringing doorbells, dropping off pre-ordered iPhones.

00:39:56 ◼   ► To get all those iPhones from China to North America,

00:40:01 ◼   ► and then once they get to North America,

00:40:03 ◼   ► to distribute them to everybody who purchased it,

00:40:05 ◼   ► there's an awful lot of fossil fuel

00:40:08 ◼   ► being burned on that, right?

00:40:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know, transportation as a sector,

00:40:13 ◼   ► for our carbon footprint,

00:40:15 ◼   ► It's actually a very small percentage

00:40:17 ◼   ► of our carbon footprint.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I'll get you the number, I'm looking as I speak.

00:40:22 ◼   ► But we do a comprehensive carbon footprint for Apple.

00:40:26 ◼   ► This year, for 2016, for the year just past,

00:40:29 ◼   ► it's 29.5 million metric tons.

00:40:33 ◼   ► And transportation of our product is 4% of that.

00:40:37 ◼   ► So do the math really quickly.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Included in that carbon footprint is,

00:40:44 ◼   ► Some people say cradle to grave.

00:40:45 ◼   ► We're trying to get rid of the grave

00:40:47 ◼   ► and make a closed loop system.

00:40:49 ◼   ► But right now, all the way from the mine,

00:40:51 ◼   ► even though we don't own mines,

00:40:53 ◼   ► we don't have relationship with mining companies,

00:40:56 ◼   ► but we estimate the extraction and processing

00:41:00 ◼   ► of let's say the alumina or to make aluminum enclosures.

00:41:05 ◼   ► All the way through a product use,

00:41:09 ◼   ► we actually include in our carbon footprint

00:41:12 ◼   ► the electricity you use as an Apple customer,

00:41:19 ◼   ► because you wouldn't use that electricity if it wasn't for Apple.

00:41:21 ◼   ► So all the way to recycling.

00:41:24 ◼   ► So it's not a huge part of our carbon footprint,

00:41:28 ◼   ► but 4% is nothing to sneeze at.

00:41:31 ◼   ► The biggest part of our carbon footprint is actually in the manufacturing,

00:41:34 ◼   ► all those suppliers that are in our supply chain.

00:41:37 ◼   ► And so one of the other things we're doing is spending time with them,

00:41:41 ◼   ► Now that we're at 96% renewable, we've learned a lot.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And so now we're trying to bring them along.

00:41:47 ◼   ► And this year, we're announcing three new suppliers who've committed to go 100% renewable

00:41:54 ◼   ► for all their operations, Compel, Sunwoda, and Beale.

00:42:00 ◼   ► And that brings us to seven suppliers.

00:42:02 ◼   ► And I think that number is going to keep going up.

00:42:05 ◼   ► I don't want to act like all of them are doing it just because of Apple, but those seven

00:42:09 ◼   ► have made an Apple-specific commitment, and there are others who are doing it on their

00:42:13 ◼   ► own.

00:42:14 ◼   ► So, you know, yes, transportation is a problem that we need to think about, and we can do

00:42:20 ◼   ► that.

00:42:21 ◼   ► You know, when you make a lighter product in a smaller package, it helps with transportation

00:42:26 ◼   ► emissions.

00:42:29 ◼   ► And when we think about marine, so taking it by ship versus air, that helps with transportation.

00:42:38 ◼   ► And so every little bit will help, but we are tackling the biggest places first, the

00:42:42 ◼   ► hardest.

00:42:43 ◼   ► But in other words, you guys aren't sweeping any aspect of it under the rug by saying,

00:42:48 ◼   ► "Well, that's not us."

00:42:50 ◼   ► Right?

00:42:52 ◼   ► This is what actual Apple employees are doing in Apple-owned buildings.

00:42:59 ◼   ► And anything that happens from the mine until it gets there, we're not taking that into

00:43:05 ◼   ► account.

00:43:06 ◼   ► to account for everything. Yeah, because you can't change the world if you stop at your theoretical

00:43:14 ◼   ► borders. You have to change yourself first. You have to lead by example and not demand

00:43:19 ◼   ► of others what you're not willing to do. But I think we're one of the few companies, I won't say

00:43:26 ◼   ► the only companies in the world, who take this very comprehensive look at our carbon footprint

00:43:31 ◼   ► and look to, we'd love to get it to zero,

00:43:35 ◼   ► which would mean that all those suppliers

00:43:37 ◼   ► would be at zero carbon footprint.

00:43:40 ◼   ► And we're trying to do it right now,

00:43:43 ◼   ► not using offsets or credits.

00:43:46 ◼   ► You know, there might be some places in the world

00:43:48 ◼   ► that it's just not possible to do that right now,

00:43:51 ◼   ► but that's why we're at 96%, not saying 100,

00:43:56 ◼   ► 'cause we could get to 100 if we just bought some credits.

00:43:59 ◼   ► And so we're still working hard on that.

00:44:02 ◼   ► And yeah, it feels really good to be that expansive.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Because then you can inspire the energy folks, the product power

00:44:11 ◼   ► folks, to make the most efficient products in the world.

00:44:14 ◼   ► Because every time you save a wad of energy on a MacBook,

00:44:21 ◼   ► you're saving a tremendous amount,

00:44:22 ◼   ► because we sell so many of them.

00:44:24 ◼   ► So the more expansive you are, the more, I guess,

00:44:28 ◼   ► playing field you have to play with,

00:44:30 ◼   ► to go back to the sports analogy.

00:44:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, there's an old story from the '80s

00:44:36 ◼   ► of the creation of the original Macintosh,

00:44:39 ◼   ► where, I forget, somebody had a stopwatch

00:44:42 ◼   ► and timed how long it took the prototype to start up.

00:44:46 ◼   ► And Steve Jobs said, "You gotta get that,

00:44:47 ◼   ► "you gotta cut 30 seconds off of that."

00:44:49 ◼   ► And they're like, "Why?"

00:44:50 ◼   ► And he was like, "Well, we're gonna sell

00:44:51 ◼   ► "millions of these things, multiply that by 30 seconds."

00:44:55 ◼   ► And you get like, you know, it came out to like,

00:44:57 ◼   ► I don't know, 87 years.

00:44:58 ◼   ► He goes, there you go, you saved a life.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I read that story.

00:45:01 ◼   ► And it's like that with energy, right?

00:45:03 ◼   ► You take 70 million iPhones in a quarter,

00:45:08 ◼   ► and if you can make them a little bit more energy

00:45:12 ◼   ► efficient, every little bit you multiply by the 70 million

00:45:15 ◼   ► that were just sold, and it adds up.

00:45:18 ◼   ► I think the number is something like since 2008, on average,

00:45:21 ◼   ► our products are 70% more efficient, more energy

00:45:24 ◼   ► efficient.

00:45:25 ◼   ► And there's been some great big technology innovations in there.

00:45:30 ◼   ► And I also want to be really clear, back to that idea

00:45:33 ◼   ► that you don't have to sacrifice.

00:45:34 ◼   ► Those are all things that make the experience better.

00:45:37 ◼   ► Energy efficiency, the flip side of that is battery life.

00:45:41 ◼   ► If something doesn't use a lot of energy,

00:45:43 ◼   ► you need a smaller battery, or your battery of whatever size

00:45:48 ◼   ► goes longer.

00:45:49 ◼   ► It goes longer on a charge.

00:45:50 ◼   ► So all these things tend to have sort of compounding reasons.

00:45:55 ◼   ► And sometimes they're even based on the customer experience,

00:45:59 ◼   ► but there's a happy sort of carbon benefit

00:46:02 ◼   ► at the same time, or environmental benefit too.

00:46:05 ◼   ► - You said earlier that this sort of thinking

00:46:09 ◼   ► shouldn't be seen as partisan.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And I think that the cynic's take on that would be

00:46:15 ◼   ► that Apple, as the most profitable company in the world,

00:46:20 ◼   ► can afford to be,

00:46:22 ◼   ► can afford to spend on this idealism.

00:46:28 ◼   ► But I think your argument would be that no,

00:46:32 ◼   ► it's Apple as the most profitable country in the world

00:46:35 ◼   ► can show that having a focus on this sort of stuff

00:46:38 ◼   ► is not at odds with being profitable.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, it's the right thing to do.

00:46:45 ◼   ► I don't think, I think if you go back to sort of,

00:46:47 ◼   ► you know, core human values, you know, protecting the planet where we live, where our children,

00:46:54 ◼   ► you know, grow up, where we work, the places that we, you know, used to fish or swim as

00:47:00 ◼   ► a kid, the drinking water that we all honestly take for granted because we've, most of us,

00:47:07 ◼   ► haven't had the experience of, say, people in Flint where you literally have to, you

00:47:11 ◼   ► know, shower and wash your face with bottled water.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I mean, all those things are just goods.

00:47:16 ◼   ► And so, you know, when we think about the environment, it shouldn't, you know, our position

00:47:23 ◼   ► is we're not taken aside in terms of whether any political approach is right.

00:47:30 ◼   ► We're just saying this is something that is definitely a good.

00:47:34 ◼   ► It's good to have, to be efficient, to be thoughtful and careful.

00:47:39 ◼   ► Kind of the, you know, what my grandmother said, you know, waste not, want not.

00:47:43 ◼   ► idea that, you know, in a world where we have been incredibly fortunate as a country or

00:47:50 ◼   ► as a people to think of that as our responsibility.

00:47:55 ◼   ► I think, you know, for me it's sort of almost a moral thing, but yeah, it's not about having

00:48:04 ◼   ► the money to do it.

00:48:05 ◼   ► It's about figuring out the innovations that would then, you know, hopefully spread out

00:48:11 ◼   ► like ripples and allow others to do it too.

00:48:13 ◼   ► I think if you went to someone who right now has a utility bill and there was a way that

00:48:19 ◼   ► they could have cleaner energy that would also reduce their utility bill, they would

00:48:25 ◼   ► be for it.

00:48:26 ◼   ► And so that's a policy question.

00:48:28 ◼   ► I don't think it depends on what party you're in.

00:48:31 ◼   ► If you ask somebody, "Would you rather have solar power?"

00:48:34 ◼   ► I think it's kind of a cool thing.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Where do you see the role between the government and something in the U.S. like the EPA and

00:48:45 ◼   ► a business like Apple taking initiative on its own to do these things?

00:48:51 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, from the EPA perspective, there wasn't a ton of places where EPA and

00:48:59 ◼   ► Apple intersected.

00:49:01 ◼   ► is a regulatory agency and there are regulations that definitely affect

00:49:07 ◼   ► the technology sector but

00:49:10 ◼   ► you know regulations in many cases not all cases are meant to set

00:49:15 ◼   ► the floor. There's definitely, they just can't set the ceiling and in fact if they

00:49:21 ◼   ► set a ceiling

00:49:22 ◼   ► they're not doing the right thing. They should be there to help

00:49:26 ◼   ► innovation go forward and

00:49:29 ◼   ► you know, I'm not for every single piece of regulation, especially those that seem

00:49:35 ◼   ► to be

00:49:35 ◼   ► picking, you know, which innovations

00:49:39 ◼   ► should or shouldn't go forward. I think that requires real thoughtfulness.

00:49:43 ◼   ► But, you know, I think for companies like ours

00:49:49 ◼   ► it's not to say we don't have times when we have regulations that affect us.

00:49:52 ◼   ► It's not to say, you know, I don't want anybody to walk away from this thinking we

00:49:56 ◼   ► figured out how to do it right all the time. We will have problems

00:49:59 ◼   ► like any other company will, but our general orientation is to trying to do

00:50:05 ◼   ► the best we can to meet the goals we've set for ourselves around climate change,

00:50:10 ◼   ► around

00:50:11 ◼   ► greener materials, and around conserving

00:50:14 ◼   ► and being really smart and not wasteful about resources.

00:50:19 ◼   ► Alright, one last question I have for you.

00:50:22 ◼   ► Where do you think Apple is

00:50:25 ◼   ► least up to snuff.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Like where is the, where can you guys improve,

00:50:30 ◼   ► where do you guys have the most opportunity for improvement?

00:50:34 ◼   ► - Oh man, that's like the interview question

00:50:36 ◼   ► when they ask you for your one flaw.

00:50:39 ◼   ► You know, you don't answer that, but I mean,

00:50:41 ◼   ► there are tons of things that I wish I could snap my fingers

00:50:45 ◼   ► and would be done, you know.

00:50:47 ◼   ► I wish we could make a better connection with our customers

00:50:54 ◼   ► So we got more of our products back at end of life.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I think we have a ton of work to do.

00:51:00 ◼   ► I mean, we had just outlined this big hairy goal around starting to close loops for different

00:51:07 ◼   ► materials.

00:51:08 ◼   ► And so I think that's going to be a big area of focus for us.

00:51:15 ◼   ► I mean, it has to be done in a way that maintains all the things that Apple is.

00:51:22 ◼   ► - Apple is. - That's a great point.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Somebody buys, let's say, a MacBook Pro,

00:51:29 ◼   ► and they use it for the next four or five years,

00:51:31 ◼   ► and they get a great time out of it,

00:51:33 ◼   ► and they upgrade, and they take that old one,

00:51:35 ◼   ► and they just put it in a closet,

00:51:37 ◼   ► and they think, well, this old MacBook Pro,

00:51:39 ◼   ► it's still good, but I'm gonna get a new one.

00:51:41 ◼   ► They put it in a closet, and then a couple more years go by,

00:51:43 ◼   ► and they're like, why do I still have

00:51:44 ◼   ► this old MacBook Pro, right?

00:51:46 ◼   ► And at that point, at least that's the way my closet works.

00:51:50 ◼   ► At that point, you don't want them to just put it in the trash.

00:51:54 ◼   ► You want them to do-- like the fact that this complicated, fancy laptop is made out of recyclable

00:52:01 ◼   ► materials, it's not-- you can't just put it in the blue recycling bin where your aluminum

00:52:06 ◼   ► cans go to get it properly recycled.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:10 ◼   ► What we'd love to have happen is that it comes back either to an Apple store or that you

00:52:16 ◼   ► go online and ask for a mailing box or envelope, we'll take back at the stores

00:52:23 ◼   ► any product, any Apple product you bring in. That's our Apple Renew program.

00:52:29 ◼   ► We, you know, we are also emphasizing in the stores the programs that we have

00:52:34 ◼   ► that allow you to upgrade. So if you're a tech person who does like the latest

00:52:41 ◼   ► technology, we want that, you know, we want last year's or the year before's model

00:52:48 ◼   ► back because it still has value first off. You know, a lot of the reason people

00:52:51 ◼   ► love Apple is that if you if you want to sell your product yourself or trade it

00:52:57 ◼   ► in, it has a great value. But at the end of life, and that could be, you know, a

00:53:03 ◼   ► long time away, I mean we have people still rocking fours and I think threes

00:53:09 ◼   ► out there, but you know, when the time comes, we'd still like to have it back. It is a bit of a

00:53:14 ◼   ► challenge, by the way, to then make sure all that material gets back in the recycling chain, because

00:53:19 ◼   ► it's, you know, it's very different and very diverse. We're starting to have quite a bit of

00:53:23 ◼   ► a catalog back behind us. But that's part of the challenge.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Well, that was the video that was shown when you were on stage a few events ago with the robot who

00:53:34 ◼   ► disassembles iPhones?

00:53:36 ◼   ► Yeah, Liam. Liam is actually a twin now here in California and actually over in Europe.

00:53:43 ◼   ► Yeah, and the idea was to think about that disassembly step and understand,

00:53:49 ◼   ► if you think of this thing as a chain or a big circle, every step influences the one before and

00:53:55 ◼   ► against. So how do you disassemble this product and do it in a way where you maximize the ability

00:54:02 ◼   ► to maybe get tin back, or get aluminum back,

00:54:07 ◼   ► or as we're starting to look at with batteries,

00:54:11 ◼   ► get cobalt back.

00:54:12 ◼   ► And so when you start to think about this challenge,

00:54:16 ◼   ► not to scare myself, which I can do,

00:54:21 ◼   ► it's material by material, component by component,

00:54:24 ◼   ► product by product.

00:54:26 ◼   ► Because the camera is different in the iPhone 6

00:54:31 ◼   ► than it is in the iPhone 7.

00:54:33 ◼   ► So those are all challenges we're willing to take on.

00:54:39 ◼   ► But the customer's role in that is to, wherever possible--

00:54:43 ◼   ► I'm not asking anybody to give up their first iPhone--

00:54:46 ◼   ► but wherever possible, to get those products back to Apple.

00:54:50 ◼   ► And the other thing that's online that's really important

00:54:53 ◼   ► is a lot of people have security concerns.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Your life is on your device.

00:54:58 ◼   ► And so to make sure you wipe it, we'll

00:55:00 ◼   ► be looking out to do that as well.

00:55:03 ◼   ► But a lot of people don't want to part with them

00:55:05 ◼   ► because of the data that's on it.

00:55:06 ◼   ► So there's instructions on how to do that as well.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a good point.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Anything else that you wanted to talk about today?

00:55:15 ◼   ► No, I guess we covered it.

00:55:16 ◼   ► We got to give a shout out to Drexel, right?

00:55:19 ◼   ► Can I say hi to my son Brian, who's a dragon?

00:55:21 ◼   ► Hey, Drexel.

00:55:23 ◼   ► Go dragons.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Now that's an amazing connection between the two of us.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Your son is doing game design, game development at Drexel.

00:55:33 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:55:34 ◼   ► I'm hoping that is an actual major, but--

00:55:37 ◼   ► - No, it is.

00:55:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:39 ◼   ► It wasn't when I was there.

00:55:41 ◼   ► But I actually know the program.

00:55:44 ◼   ► I am familiar with it.

00:55:45 ◼   ► And I just keep hearing.

00:55:46 ◼   ► - I am teasing.

00:55:47 ◼   ► It is an amazing program, and I am a huge fan of the school.

00:55:51 ◼   ► So shout out to Brian and his friends

00:55:53 ◼   ► and the amazing group over there in Westfall

00:55:56 ◼   ► and the engineering school.

00:55:57 ◼   ► - It would be pretty funny to imagine some college student

00:56:00 ◼   ► just sitting around playing PlayStation all day

00:56:03 ◼   ► and tells his mom, "I'm studying game design."

00:56:06 ◼   ► - And like, "Your son is young,

00:56:07 ◼   ► "but let me just tell you, beware."

00:56:10 ◼   ► They get real smart real fast, real, real fast.

00:56:14 ◼   ► - Lisa Jackson, thank you so much for your time.

00:56:16 ◼   ► It has been an absolute pleasure talking to you.

00:56:19 ◼   ► - Right back at you.

00:56:20 ◼   ► - Have a good Earth Day, and I hope to see you soon.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Thanks, happy Earth Day!