The Talk Show

178: ‘Now Banned in China’ With Jim Dalrymple


00:00:00   Ah, happy new year, Jim. First show of the year.

00:00:04   Yeah, happy new year.

00:00:06   Did you have a good new year?

00:00:08   It was very quiet. My son was here, and we just did, you know, father-son things, picked up the guitar, played some Aussie, Metallica, you know, things every father and son does.

00:00:21   (laughing)

00:00:23   We went out to dinner with friends early.

00:00:26   So, 'cause New Year's Eve, I think New Year's Eve sucks.

00:00:30   It's the worst, right?

00:00:31   It's like you're young and you just think,

00:00:34   well everybody goes out on New Year's Eve,

00:00:35   so I'm going out, and you go out.

00:00:37   And I don't remember ever having a good time

00:00:40   on New Year's Eve.

00:00:41   It's always crowded.

00:00:42   The only time I ever remember having a good time

00:00:43   on New Year's Eve, and it's very funny,

00:00:45   because sometimes it's like the security question

00:00:47   on your bank or whatever, they're like,

00:00:49   Where were you on New Year's Eve 1999?

00:00:52   - Yeah.

00:00:52   - And I remember that one because we had friends

00:00:55   in town here in Philly from Florida.

00:00:57   And we just stayed in me and Amy's place for the evening.

00:01:02   And then before midnight, we went down to,

00:01:05   there's a park called Penn's Landing.

00:01:07   Wasn't too, not too far of a walk.

00:01:10   And it was an unusually warm New Year's Eve for Philadelphia.

00:01:14   So it wasn't like we were real cold.

00:01:15   We just took a bottle of champagne with us

00:01:17   have fireworks, and we watched fireworks, and it was very nice. But in other words,

00:01:20   we didn't spend any money, we didn't have to wait in line anywhere, we didn't have to wait for a cab,

00:01:24   we didn't have to drive anywhere, we just walked.

00:01:26   Pete: Yes, if anybody asked me where were you on this New Year's Eve, I could just quickly say home.

00:01:33   I just, I, you know, it's so expensive to go out on New Year's Eve.

00:01:38   Pete; It's like three times more expensive than like, if you go out on December 30th, right?

00:01:42   Right, right. And you know, it's even worse if you have kids, because then, you know,

00:01:47   you have to pay like $10,000 for a babysitter, and you know, then you have the exorbitantly

00:01:55   priced dinner and drinks that you have to go for, and it just, it's the same thing

00:02:00   every year, and I'd rather watch—I didn't even make it up 'til midnight. I fell asleep.

00:02:06   [Laughter]

00:02:07   Yeah, I mean—

00:02:08   I remember a couple years ago, Amy and I went out.

00:02:11   I don't remember if it was recent enough

00:02:13   that we could just leave Jonas at home

00:02:15   or if we had Amy's sister come and watch.

00:02:17   I think we probably had her sister come and watch him.

00:02:20   So we went out to one of our favorite restaurants

00:02:23   and we went late so that we could ostensibly be there

00:02:28   at midnight, you know, so it was a real late dinner,

00:02:30   maybe like 10 o'clock dinner,

00:02:31   stayed and did the countdown

00:02:34   with the restaurant full of people.

00:02:36   And of course it was more expensive than usual

00:02:38   and it wasn't as good because I feel like it was too crowded.

00:02:43   Dinner was just slightly off.

00:02:44   It wasn't bad, but slightly off.

00:02:46   And then we leave, and we're like, I don't know.

00:02:48   It's like a mile and a half from our house.

00:02:50   We're right here in Center City, Philadelphia.

00:02:52   But it's cold, and Amy had heels on.

00:02:55   She's not going to walk, but we couldn't get a cab.

00:02:57   Just couldn't get a cab because it's New Year's Eve,

00:03:00   and it was just past midnight.

00:03:02   Could not get a cab.

00:03:04   So we thought, hey, let's just go to a hotel

00:03:09   right down the street.

00:03:10   There's a hotel, they have a nice bar.

00:03:11   We'll go there, we'll have one more drink,

00:03:13   and then by the time we're done, there'll be plenty of cabs.

00:03:15   We go in, and it's only like 20 after midnight.

00:03:17   And the hotel bar is just closed.

00:03:20   It's just completely shut down,

00:03:21   and it's like, 'cause they want everybody out, right?

00:03:24   Like ordinarily, they would never be closed

00:03:26   at 12, you know, 12 midnight.

00:03:28   They'd be open till like two.

00:03:29   But they're closed 'cause they want everybody out

00:03:31   because everybody's a drunken mass.

00:03:33   So we started walking home and her feet are hurting

00:03:37   and eventually a cab comes by.

00:03:39   And we're only like four blocks from our house.

00:03:41   And I'm like, I don't care, I'll still get a cab.

00:03:43   Her feet hurt.

00:03:43   And the guy just rolls down his window, the cab driver,

00:03:46   and he just says, "Where you going?"

00:03:48   And I told him our address.

00:03:50   He knows it's only four blocks from where we are.

00:03:53   And he goes, "30 bucks."

00:03:56   - Oh my God.

00:03:58   - And it's gonna be off the meter.

00:03:59   And I was like, "Oh my God, I can't believe this."

00:04:01   But if it was my feet that hurt, I would say,

00:04:05   go fuck yourself.

00:04:06   But it's Amy, and I'm like, all right, all right.

00:04:08   I paid $30 to four blocks and a cab.

00:04:11   We haven't gone out on New Year's Eve since.

00:04:13   - Yeah, I don't blame you.

00:04:15   - No, so we went out early, like 5.30,

00:04:18   to dinner with some friends in Chinatown.

00:04:20   And a guy knows a guy.

00:04:24   And so it wasn't like a fancy,

00:04:25   you would never even know it was New Year's Eve.

00:04:28   Well, you know, a couple of friends of mine came over for a little bit and they brought,

00:04:38   you know, like a pot of pulled pork and some buns, you know?

00:04:47   And we had that, but that was about it.

00:04:51   Still, I didn't make it till midnight.

00:04:53   I was kicking the milk.

00:04:54   Get out.

00:04:55   Get out.

00:04:56   I'm gonna go to bed.

00:04:58   I'll bet you're grumpy when you have to go to bed.

00:05:01   I'm grumpy when I have to go to bed and when I haven't eaten.

00:05:05   I've seen you when you're hungry. You're not a good man.

00:05:11   Yeah, we ended up at

00:05:14   What's that place in San Francisco? The house of meat or something?

00:05:20   House of prime rib.

00:05:21   The house of prime rib, yeah.

00:05:23   Is that where you went?

00:05:24   Or did I wasn't me and you when you were hungry? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that you were in a bad mood

00:05:28   Yeah, I was

00:05:31   Well, they take care of you as a primary. They don't leave hungry. No, no

00:05:36   So, I don't know that's you know, it's New Year's there's not a lot of news to talk about we got like year and review stuff

00:05:43   we could talk about I

00:05:45   Don't know if you wanted to start anything

00:05:48   I saw this and this to me is one of those topics where I know it

00:05:51   It's like opinions are all over the map and I know that some people

00:05:54   Think that I'm off my rocker on this which is the question of where does Siri stand compared to its competitors like Google?

00:06:02   assistant and Alexa from Amazon

00:06:06   And I linked to a piece

00:06:09   Was this guy was his name?

00:06:15   this guy at birchtree.com where he did a study. He did 50 commands with Siri and

00:06:21   Google Assistant, the exact same commands, and Siri actually did better on more of

00:06:26   them than Google Assistant, which does not surprise me.

00:06:32   And I think the bottom line is that none of these things are actually good. Siri

00:06:35   is not good. Google Assistant is not good. Alexa is not good. All of these things

00:06:40   stink. And like 10 years from now, we're gonna look back at the state of all these

00:06:44   things and they're like ridiculous they're like it's it's it's such early

00:06:48   days and they're they all fail in such frustrating ways compared to like even

00:06:54   if you had a bad human a personal assistant like a personal assistant

00:06:59   you're like I should fire this person hire somebody else there but they're

00:07:04   there they're like it no human being is as stupid or as frustrating as these

00:07:11   things are overall in terms of like if you're talking about a certain topic and

00:07:15   then you're like well go get me one of those and they're like what you know you

00:07:19   can't you just can't talk to them the way you really want to and we will it's

00:07:22   clear that that's what we're working towards but I thought that this guy's

00:07:25   thing and then I of course because people are very angry about Siri people

00:07:29   this is like an emotional topic people I don't that's one thing I don't get like

00:07:35   I and I'm not emotional about it and I know that there are some people in there

00:07:39   you know, they think that because I tend to like Apple products, I write about

00:07:43   Apple, that they think I just that I'm somehow like a home team cheerleader for

00:07:48   Siri. I really don't think so. I think Siri stinks. I just think the other ones

00:07:53   stink too, and that in some ways Siri is better in ways that are meaningful to me.

00:07:59   But people... one of the things people said about this guy's study was that he was

00:08:04   using on an Android device, but he was using Google Allo to do the queries, and you type

00:08:11   it's like a little chatbot, so it's sort of like typing it in iMessage.

00:08:15   So instead of dictating it verbally, he's typing, and they're saying that the argument

00:08:19   is that that's not a fair comparison because the real Google Assistant is a voice-driven

00:08:24   thing and it's only available on the Pixel phones, and he didn't have a Pixel phone,

00:08:28   so I don't know.

00:08:30   me it's about what you want to use it for. That's what it comes down to for me. So,

00:08:37   Siri, and I said this yesterday about, you know, all of the things that are showing up at CES about

00:08:45   Alexa, you know, that to me, Siri is the assistant that you carry with you. It's your mobile

00:08:53   Assistant. But Apple doesn't seem to be taking those steps for the home. So if you want,

00:09:01   you know, an assistant in the home, that right now that seems to be Alexa.

00:09:06   Ted

00:09:06   Ted Matt Burchler is the name of the guy who wrote this story. I'll put it in the show notes.

00:09:10   The difference between Google Assistant and Siri. And what he did is he made a video about it,

00:09:14   which I think was a very useful way of doing it, where you can actually see the results live.

00:09:18   Pete: Yeah, I just, I mean, it's, what, what Amazon is doing right now is very smart.

00:09:26   Pete: Yeah.

00:09:26   Pete; I mean, they're getting Alexa into as many products as they can

00:09:30   so that they just become the default. And it's a very smart thing to do.

00:09:35   Pete; Yeah, I wrote about this recently where there was an announcement that

00:09:42   the win Las Vegas is gonna put Alexa or the Echo

00:09:46   into all 4,800 of their hotel rooms in their Vegas property.

00:09:51   And that, however much you wanna say

00:09:55   that this home device stuff is early days,

00:09:59   hey, 5,000 hotel rooms here, 5,000 hotel rooms there,

00:10:03   and all of a sudden you've got a sustained lead.

00:10:05   'Cause things like that don't get replaced that often.

00:10:08   It's like, how long did it take hotel rooms

00:10:11   to get rid of the 30 pin chargers on their alarm clocks.

00:10:14   (laughing)

00:10:15   I mean, seriously, it's, every once in a while,

00:10:18   I don't know the last time I saw one of those,

00:10:20   but until recently I occasionally would.

00:10:23   The alarm clock would have the 30 pin charger.

00:10:25   I mean, that's like, what, five, six years old?

00:10:29   In terms of the last time you could buy an iPhone

00:10:30   that had one of those?

00:10:31   Win puts 5,000 of these Alexa things in there

00:10:36   and hooks up all of the lights

00:10:38   and 4,000 rooms full of lights and shades

00:10:42   and the window blinds to Alexa, they're

00:10:45   not going to replace it with another device next year.

00:10:49   Nope.

00:10:51   And so it seemed-- how would you summarize

00:10:52   the news coming out of CES?

00:10:55   You wrote this-- you got the story on your site.

00:10:57   Alexa is everywhere.

00:10:58   I'll put that in the show notes.

00:10:59   Yeah, I just never liked CES, to be honest with you.

00:11:04   Did you ever go?

00:11:05   I did.

00:11:06   Yeah, I went for a few years.

00:11:08   And it's just craziness because a lot of the stuff

00:11:13   that you see at CES aren't real products.

00:11:19   - Right.

00:11:20   - And it's difficult to really assess what's happening

00:11:25   in terms of consumer electronics when, you know,

00:11:31   80% of the products aren't real or 70% or 60%, you know,

00:11:36   They're bringing proof of concept things to CES

00:11:41   to see how people react to them.

00:11:43   So the news out of CES to me is just always,

00:11:49   every year is just kinda, eh.

00:11:51   - Well, how would you summarize the Alexa news?

00:11:54   - Well, the Alexa news I find very interesting

00:11:58   not because of Alexa,

00:12:00   but because everybody is choosing that platform.

00:12:04   And--

00:12:07   Well, and partially because it's--

00:12:10   it's a story done on your site, The Loop.

00:12:12   Dave Mark wrote it, that they're following the Netflix strategy

00:12:16   of trying to embed Alexa everywhere that they can,

00:12:19   in a way that Netflix seemingly--

00:12:23   if you've got a box that makes video come out of it,

00:12:26   Netflix is going to do--

00:12:29   is willing to put a Netflix app on that box.

00:12:32   I mean, can you buy a video box

00:12:35   that doesn't come with Netflix?

00:12:36   I don't even know if you can.

00:12:38   - I don't know, it's everywhere.

00:12:41   I mean, it's even on Comcast now, that Xfinity thing.

00:12:45   - Right.

00:12:46   - So yeah, it's everywhere.

00:12:47   - Yeah, I had a relative who had that

00:12:50   with their Comcast thing, and that blew me away.

00:12:52   It really surprised me that Comcast would do that,

00:12:55   'cause you would kinda think Comcast wants

00:12:57   to keep you tied to the cable channels.

00:13:00   - Yeah.

00:13:01   Yeah, so there's like other companies, among the things I've seen is that there are other

00:13:08   companies coming out with Echo-like docs.

00:13:11   Some of them, who was the one who was working with like Harman Kardon to make really, you

00:13:15   know, like a really good speaker.

00:13:17   So if you're, if you're gripe about the Amazon Echo is, "Hey, I want one of these things.

00:13:26   I would get the Amazon version, but I really want better sound quality than this."

00:13:30   they've instead of doing it themselves,

00:13:32   they've just licensed the Alexa technology

00:13:36   to these other companies.

00:13:38   But other things too though,

00:13:39   like Ford Motor Company announced

00:13:43   that they're gonna put Alexa into their cars.

00:13:45   I don't know, it just seems like

00:13:49   they're running away with this.

00:13:51   - Do you have a voice assistant at home?

00:13:55   Do you have Google or Alexa?

00:13:57   - I have the Alexa thing in the kitchen

00:13:59   and we never use it.

00:14:00   But on the other hand, no, we really don't, honest to God.

00:14:03   I got it so I could try it, and it just

00:14:06   felt like a reasonable business expense,

00:14:08   and maybe we would like it.

00:14:10   But one thing is we don't have any smart light bulbs

00:14:15   or anything like that.

00:14:16   We don't have any smart anything in the house,

00:14:18   because we're moving somewhat soon, supposedly.

00:14:21   That's a long story.

00:14:22   But it doesn't make any sense to buy stuff like that

00:14:24   for the place we live now.

00:14:26   And everybody I know who does like Alexa, like Ben Thompson

00:14:29   really likes it, has stuff in the house where you can say things like, "Turn out the kitchen

00:14:35   lights," or whatever. But we don't have anything like that. And for the stuff I do do, it doesn't

00:14:42   work as well as Siri for me. I can't stand the way—usually, I've said this before

00:14:47   on the show, I don't want to be a broken record, but a lot of times, all I care about,

00:14:51   especially when I'm in our kitchen, our kitchen has windows, so I can see what the weather's

00:14:55   like. I can see if it's raining or sunny or whatever. All I want to know is the temperature.

00:14:59   outside and Alexa if you say what's the temperature get she she understands it

00:15:03   but all she does is give you a full weather report for the day which I don't

00:15:07   want it takes like 30 seconds and if you ask Siri for the temperature she just

00:15:12   tells you the temperature hmm but that will mean that leads me to something

00:15:18   that I want to complain about Siri alright so with Siri when you ask the

00:15:24   temperature if it I don't know what the threshold is but somewhere around the

00:15:28   freezing maybe it's like under 40 degrees Fahrenheit or so she answers with

00:15:35   Burr and then tells you the temperature every every goddamn time and this to me

00:15:44   is one of the worst things about Siri like the cuteness of trying to be funny

00:15:48   like when you don't if you're not asking her to be funny because it's not funny

00:15:52   That's not funny at all.

00:15:54   It's funny to me.

00:15:55   Well, but no human being would do that.

00:16:00   Like if I had a real human assistant, they never... And they knew the temperature.

00:16:05   They would never say, "Brr, it's 33 degrees." And if they did, they would do it once.

00:16:12   And maybe only in the context of a surprisingly cold day.

00:16:17   Like if it was the middle of September and the temperature dropped to an unusual degree,

00:16:21   you could say something like that.

00:16:23   But on the East Coast in Philadelphia in January,

00:16:27   it's completely normal for it to be 33 degrees.

00:16:29   There's nothing unusual about it at all.

00:16:32   And so it's not funny.

00:16:33   It's just annoying.

00:16:35   Every time.

00:16:36   Right.

00:16:37   And it's-- you know what I mean?

00:16:41   I don't want my computers to work like that.

00:16:43   I realize that the conversational nature of Siri

00:16:45   is a little different than using the Mac.

00:16:48   But it's like if I make a new numbers spreadsheet

00:16:54   and I title it like 2016 Daring Fireball Company Expenses,

00:17:03   because I'm getting ready to go get my taxes done,

00:17:05   I don't want the computer, when I hit Return on saving the file,

00:17:08   to say tax time again, huh?

00:17:11   Yeah.

00:17:12   Right?

00:17:13   I don't want my computer making weird, obvious duh comments

00:17:17   like that. But yet Siri does. Just tell me the goddamn temperature.

00:17:21   Are they trying to make Siri more, I don't know, friendly? I mean,

00:17:27   Yeah, but that's not friendly, though. To me, I guess that's obviously the intent,

00:17:31   is to try to make it friendly. But it's not because it's so phony because it's every day,

00:17:35   every single day. Right? And that, to me, has the opposite effect, where it just makes it seem

00:17:41   It's more artificial than if she just said 33 degrees, you know, going down to whatever.

00:17:48   Right.

00:17:49   I find it incredibly annoying.

00:17:53   But then on the other side, you have Alexa giving you full weather forecast when all you want is the

00:18:00   temperature. The thing with this Alexa everywhere is I don't quite know how it's going to tie into

00:18:06   to being personal in terms of,

00:18:10   like Amazon just doesn't know that much about me.

00:18:14   And you can do things like say,

00:18:16   add to my shopping list,

00:18:19   and it's just like your Amazon shopping list,

00:18:21   but it's like,

00:18:22   and I think there's a way you can hook up

00:18:24   your Google Calendar, but I don't use Google Calendar.

00:18:27   So Siri has an advantage on things like access

00:18:31   to my actual calendar that Alexa's never going to have.

00:18:34   - Right.

00:18:36   I don't think, like, Alexa can't send the text messages or iMessages, though it's certainly

00:18:40   not iMessages, and I don't think it can send text messages. So, I don't know, it seems more about

00:18:49   information and controlling, like, just controlling your environment with the lights and playing music

00:18:54   than about being a real personal assistant. Pete: Well, and I'm the same way as you. I don't have

00:19:01   the light bulbs and I don't, but I, when I think of a personal assistant in the home,

00:19:06   I think of having something that will be more interactive with me and my surroundings than

00:19:16   what anything is right now. Maybe that's why I don't really, I haven't gone out and purchased

00:19:22   one of these because it doesn't really do anything besides answer questions. You know, I mean,

00:19:29   I don't know. Merlin loves his. Ben Thompson does, too.

00:19:39   I don't know. Maybe I'm just not seeing it. Right now, if I sat down now, and even if there was a

00:19:50   sale on Alexa this afternoon, I don't think I'd buy one. Because I just don't think it's going to

00:19:58   do a whole lot for me. I mean look at the Google commercial about the you know the little boy that's

00:20:02   saying trying to make the dog disappear. Right. And he's trying to figure out what the magic word is.

00:20:08   I mean that's cute but it really didn't do anything. So I don't know I keep coming back to this

00:20:18   solve a problem thing. How much is Alexa solving a problem? Right now none. The new products

00:20:27   it may, but I just don't see what it's doing for me that is so great that I just can't do it myself.

00:20:39   I see how eventually it will. I think eventually it's going to be amazing. I really do. I think

00:20:46   if you could just tell your assistant, "Hey, I'm flying to San Francisco on these dates. What

00:20:57   are my choices for flights from American Airlines?" And then have Siri come back in a couple of seconds

00:21:05   and just have an ordered list of direct flights from Philly

00:21:09   to San Francisco, that would be fantastic.

00:21:12   Isn't that what that new one did that Samsung bought?

00:21:17   Yeah, sort of.

00:21:19   But again, I think that's a lot like CES, where Viv--

00:21:22   and Viv was-- that's the one that's

00:21:23   created by the people who originally created Siri.

00:21:27   So they have a track record.

00:21:28   It's not like they don't have a track record.

00:21:33   But I don't think, I think it was sort of a proof of concept, you know, like when they demoed it.

00:21:38   I don't think it was a real, you know, it really couldn't do the things that they were showing.

00:21:43   But that's, that's where they, where they're going with it.

00:21:49   Right.

00:21:50   You know, it seemed, and this is, I mean, when everybody saw that, we all, you know, everybody freaked out because

00:21:58   Siri couldn't do those things, but we don't know that Siri can't do those things

00:22:03   I just know that the Siri that we have can't right so we're very

00:22:07   quick to

00:22:10   Jump on Apple and say that they're not doing things but Siri could do viv right now and in you know the prototype models

00:22:18   Bottom line for me is not that again not that Siri is behind these other companies

00:22:24   but that they all still stink overall. And they're better. But they're very different at different

00:22:29   things. One of the things that most people really praise Alexa for is that once you know exactly

00:22:35   what to say to it, it'll get it every time. And the response time, turnaround response time,

00:22:41   is faster for a lot of people with Alexa in terms of how long do you have to wait.

00:22:46   The thing that matters, the reason it all matters, and a perfect example of why it matters is AirPods,

00:22:52   right? Because Siri is a big part of AirPods. And I know my wife loves her. She really,

00:22:58   really loves them. And she switched from Siri to having double tap play/pause because she finds the

00:23:04   need to pause without taking it out a lot. And so she even tweeted that switching it to play/pause

00:23:11   was a game changer. It really made her... That preference setting made her go from mostly liking

00:23:19   AirPods to loving AirPods. I set mine like that, you know, a day after I had them in when I figured

00:23:26   out how to change that setting. I've kept it on Siri almost since... I had it on PlayPods for a

00:23:33   little bit, but I like taking it out, and usually it works for me. You know, not works like

00:23:39   functioning works, but in practical terms, it's fine for me to just take it out to PlayPods.

00:23:45   So I keep it on Siri. So I use the Siri a lot. But the biggest annoyance for me is the pause

00:23:53   between when I double tap it and when I get the prompt. And I'm so, what's the word, impatient,

00:24:03   that a lot of times I'll start saying what I want to say before it's actually listening. The

00:24:09   accuracy is probably, it's probably the most accurate Siri product I know. And I don't know

00:24:14   if that's because the microphone is right there, you know, so close to my mouth. I don't know if

00:24:20   it's because there's two of them. I don't know if, you know, like if they're doing funny stuff like

00:24:25   getting it out of the bones in my ear or whatever. But it's very, very accurate.

00:24:30   When I dictate into AirPods, the accuracy is the highest of any product. But that pause between

00:24:39   the second tap and when it's actually listening is infuriating.

00:24:43   Yeah, I do the same thing as you. It's like when it's on Bluetooth in the car.

00:24:49   Have you tried that? It's on Bluetooth in the car and you press it and there's this long

00:24:54   pause and I've already started talking just out of habit. And the pause is even longer than normal.

00:25:00   Yeah.

00:25:01   And I get that, you know, it's because it's over Bluetooth and it's kind of connecting as a phone

00:25:07   call or however it does it, but still it's not optimal.

00:25:12   I think that it's the number one way that Siri needs to improve is response time.

00:25:17   Beyond any, just don't even get into the what Siri can do

00:25:22   and the accuracy and whatever, but getting the response time as close to zero as possible

00:25:27   I think is essential. And I think in all of computing people recognize that that's

00:25:32   It doesn't matter what field you were in.

00:25:33   Eventually, anything where there's a delay,

00:25:38   if you don't get rid of that delay, the product falls by the wayside.

00:25:43   I remember back when we had floppy disks, when you'd hit Command-S,

00:25:46   you'd have to wait a bit for the--

00:25:48   just for a word processing file to save, right?

00:25:50   And you'd hear the floppy going--

00:25:52   Oh, my.

00:25:55   Right?

00:25:55   You'd have to wait.

00:25:56   But you don't have to wait anymore.

00:25:58   Well, now it does it automatically.

00:26:00   So that's the whole thing.

00:26:02   We know that this is going to be a lot different

00:26:07   in the coming years.

00:26:08   It's just right now I have difficulty finding

00:26:13   the usefulness for all of this stuff.

00:26:18   Here's another example, Apple Maps.

00:26:21   It's very cool, it really is.

00:26:24   But if you're going somewhere where you don't know,

00:26:28   Apple maps will will just say

00:26:32   in a half a mile

00:26:35   turn left

00:26:38   whereas Google Maps is

00:26:40   More

00:26:44   Interactive more friendly more detailed Google Maps will say in half a mile use the left two lanes

00:26:53   Turn left

00:26:56   Okay, you know now I know what my options are or if you're coming to one of those

00:27:01   Intersections on the the freeway, you know, Google Maps will say, you know in in one mile

00:27:07   Use the right two lanes to take the exit here then keep left, you know

00:27:13   Then use the left lane to keep left. I that's useful. Yeah, that is very useful. Yeah to just say

00:27:22   Keep right and then a lot of times there's a fork in the road when you keep right and then it says now keep left

00:27:28   You know, it doesn't it doesn't say

00:27:31   Everything that you need I think to be

00:27:34   To allow you to be as successful in in your journey, so I love Apple Maps, I think it's great

00:27:43   It's very cool interface it

00:27:48   You know for the most part it gives great directions. The directions are basically the same

00:27:53   They're just more detailed in areas that you don't know to allow you and I I actually used it

00:27:59   Christmas Day I went to visit a friend and I've only had only been to their house one time before and

00:28:07   I had been playing around I of course like we all do we play around with the apps all the time

00:28:15   and I was playing around with with Google Maps and I used it and

00:28:19   It clued into me how much that mattered that little detail mattered in areas where?

00:28:27   I didn't know where I was going. So that that's a situation where

00:28:33   Yeah, this actually did help solve a problem for me. You know, I wasn't turning into the middle lane and

00:28:42   Then waiting for Apple Maps to say which way I have to turn right but or something

00:28:46   You know it is humane as saying when it when if it tells you you can be in either of the two left lanes

00:28:51   And you're already in

00:28:53   Like the one closer to the center then you know you're already good

00:28:56   And you don't have to worry about merging one more lane over just because you know you have to make a left

00:29:00   That's actually very useful information

00:29:01   And it's the sort of thing that once you're familiar with with a with a route to a certain

00:29:06   You just do that your brain does that automatically you're like oh, yeah

00:29:10   I know I'm good. There's two lanes that go right here, because it's a busy exit.

00:29:13   Pete: Yeah. And actually, after I make that left turn, I have to make an immediate right,

00:29:18   so, you know, I better stay in the, you know, the second most left lane, because that's where I'll

00:29:25   want to turn. And see, those are just the types of things that I, when I talk about the usefulness,

00:29:32   that to me is very useful. And I really like that.

00:29:36   All right, let me take a break here and thank

00:29:38   one of our good friends.

00:29:39   It's our good friends at MailChimp.

00:29:41   12 million people use MailChimp to connect

00:29:44   with their customers, market their products,

00:29:45   and grow their e-commerce businesses every day.

00:29:49   They send a lot of email out of MailChimp.

00:29:51   What are some of the things you can do?

00:29:53   Well, you can use MailChimp to send an onboarding series

00:29:55   to introduce new subscribers or users to your business

00:29:59   or organization or app or whatever it is.

00:30:01   You can automatically follow up with customers after a purchase

00:30:04   and recommend other products that they'll love.

00:30:05   You can surprise your best customers

00:30:07   with a coupon triggered by their shopping behavior.

00:30:11   All sorts of ideas and all sorts of integrations.

00:30:14   They integrate with WordPress, Facebook,

00:30:17   online store packages like Shopify and Magento.

00:30:20   They integrate with all of these apps and web services

00:30:23   that you use every day.

00:30:25   What are the prices?

00:30:26   You can send up to 12,000 emails a month

00:30:28   to a list of up to 2,000 subscribers

00:30:31   with MailChimp's Forever Free plan.

00:30:35   Guess how much that costs, the forever free plan.

00:30:37   Well, it's free.

00:30:38   And guess how long it's free for?

00:30:39   It's free forever.

00:30:41   (laughing)

00:30:42   As long as you've got 2,000 or fewer subscribers

00:30:45   across all this in your account,

00:30:46   you can send up to 12,000 emails a month

00:30:48   without paying MailChimp a dime.

00:30:50   They won't even ask for a credit card.

00:30:52   And if you have more than that,

00:30:55   if you have more than 2,000 customers,

00:30:57   well then you're already doing well,

00:30:58   you can afford to pay, and the prices are amazing.

00:31:00   So go to MailChimp.com and get started, that's it.

00:31:04   MailChimp dot com. There's no coupon, no code, nothing else to remember.

00:31:07   Just go to MailChimp dot com and see what they have to offer.

00:31:11   They're unbelievable service, unbelievable company,

00:31:14   really great friends of the show. They've sponsored us forever,

00:31:17   including I think every year that we've done it, the, uh,

00:31:20   they've been the sponsor of the, uh,

00:31:22   the open bar at the live talk show at WWDC. So I,

00:31:27   I use MailChimp, um, all the time for the loop. Yeah, it's great. Love it.

00:31:32   It's just they are, I don't think, honestly,

00:31:34   I don't even know who their competitors are.

00:31:36   I don't, it's like they're so far above the best

00:31:39   at doing personalized email that it's,

00:31:42   I don't even know what you would say.

00:31:43   So anyway, if you have any kind of needs for email,

00:31:45   or if maybe you don't even know you have needs for email,

00:31:48   go check out MailChimp.com.

00:31:49   All right, what about this?

00:31:51   There was a really good article by Chuck von Rossbach.

00:31:55   He called it Apple's 2016 Year in Review,

00:31:58   and I thought it was really thoughtful.

00:31:59   I didn't agree with everything that he wrote,

00:32:00   But that's the way the world works.

00:32:04   But I thought he made a couple of good points, in particular,

00:32:06   on the airport base stations and the Mac Pro lineups,

00:32:11   in particular.

00:32:15   And the thing that both of these products have in common--

00:32:17   I mean, obviously, the Mac Pro is a very expensive product.

00:32:20   It's core to a lot of people's relationship with Apple.

00:32:23   If you're a professional that has a need for a Mac Pro,

00:32:26   that's probably the most important thing

00:32:28   that Apple makes for you.

00:32:30   Very expensive too.

00:32:31   I guess it's Apple's most expensive product, right?

00:32:34   I mean, I can't imagine that there's anything else

00:32:36   that's more expensive than a tripped out Mac Pro.

00:32:40   The airport base stations are not.

00:32:41   They're sort of a other, I don't even know what category

00:32:44   they put them in on the Apple website,

00:32:45   but it's sort of like a little peripheral

00:32:47   and they're not very expensive

00:32:49   and it's just sort of, just a way to keep you

00:32:52   in the Apple ecosystem and to make sure

00:32:55   that you have an Apple-like experience

00:32:57   setting up Wi-Fi in your house where you get a nice little app

00:33:01   on your phone, and it's very easy

00:33:03   to understand how to set it up from a consumer's

00:33:06   point of view.

00:33:07   And because if you're using an Apple Airport,

00:33:10   you know that things like back to your Mac or whatever

00:33:15   should work.

00:33:17   Features, the way that the features

00:33:19   that Apple has for the products that

00:33:21   operate over the internet.

00:33:24   Presumably, they're going to work better with,

00:33:27   or at least as they're expected to

00:33:28   with an airport base station.

00:33:30   But the thing with both of these products

00:33:31   is they are terribly out of date.

00:33:33   And they're still, but yet Apple is still selling them

00:33:36   at the same prices as when they came out.

00:33:38   And I don't know, and there was a story,

00:33:41   Gurman had a story a couple months ago

00:33:42   that Apple is getting out of the airport game

00:33:46   and that they've reassigned the engineers

00:33:48   who were previously working on airport base stations

00:33:50   to other teams.

00:33:51   So I don't, who knows what's going on there?

00:33:54   - Yeah, you know what's interesting about 2016

00:33:58   is that the products that had the least amount of updates

00:34:03   are the ones that is getting the most amount of news.

00:34:07   The Mac didn't have a lot of updates,

00:34:13   especially the Mac Pro and iMac,

00:34:16   but that's what everybody's talking about.

00:34:22   I don't think that they're abandoning the Mac.

00:34:25   - Well, I don't, we can get to the Mac in a bit

00:34:27   and I don't think so either.

00:34:29   But with the airport, it's a simpler story, I think.

00:34:32   Well, it has to be because it's either they're,

00:34:35   it's a simpler product.

00:34:38   Do you think Apple should still be making

00:34:40   the airport base stations?

00:34:43   - I would love for them to still make airport base stations

00:34:46   'cause I think that they're good.

00:34:51   I guess the argument against it is

00:34:54   that there are plenty of other companies that make just fine

00:34:57   products.

00:34:58   So there's no way for Apple to really stand out.

00:35:04   Apple should focus on the products

00:35:07   that they can build that are best in class.

00:35:10   Like the iPhone, in my opinion, is far and away the best phone

00:35:14   that you can buy.

00:35:15   And to me, it's not even close.

00:35:17   And the difference is, even if you

00:35:19   disagree that it's the best, you can certainly

00:35:21   it's different because it's the only phone that runs iOS and iOS is a huge thing.

00:35:25   The only reason I think that Apple is not best in class in the products that it builds is because

00:35:31   those are the products that it's not focusing on. I mean, there was a time when the airport

00:35:35   time machine, time capsule, they were best.

00:35:42   Yeah, they were definitely, I thought, especially when you take into consideration not just how

00:35:46   how they function once set up,

00:35:49   but the setup process itself.

00:35:51   'Cause I remember the one time, at one point,

00:35:54   I did have a, I forget if it was Linksys,

00:35:59   I think it was a Linksys.

00:36:00   And it was ridiculous how you configured the thing.

00:36:04   It was like you had to go to a special,

00:36:06   turn it on and you'd point your web browser

00:36:09   on your computer to a certain IP address

00:36:10   that wasn't outside, it was right there on the Linksys

00:36:15   and type a password, and it was like nobody ever changed

00:36:18   the password.

00:36:19   You could, I did of course, but most people didn't,

00:36:22   and it was like, it's stupid, it was like the password

00:36:25   was like admin or something like that.

00:36:26   - Yeah. - And then you'd configure it

00:36:29   in your web browser, and it was like,

00:36:31   you really had to be like a low level network engineer

00:36:35   to understand what anything meant.

00:36:37   It was really, really difficult.

00:36:38   And whereas right from the get-go,

00:36:42   airport, you'd configure it with a really nice app on your Mac

00:36:46   that was just like everything else.

00:36:48   It was easy Mac-style interface to configure this stuff.

00:36:52   I don't know that that's-- they're not alone in that,

00:36:54   though.

00:36:55   And they have-- I will just say this just as a full disclosure.

00:37:01   Eero has sponsored the talk show a couple of times.

00:37:04   They're not a sponsor this week.

00:37:06   I don't think they're coming up soon either.

00:37:08   But they have sponsored the site.

00:37:10   And they gave me as part of the sponsorship,

00:37:12   three-pack of euros, so the euros I have set up here are, you know, were complementary as part of

00:37:17   the sponsorship package. It's better, and I have a couple of friends who I know also have

00:37:23   euros set up. I haven't heard from one of them who didn't get a better network in their house

00:37:30   after switching from like airport, or some of them weren't even using airport before,

00:37:36   but whatever they did, that euro gives them a better, you know, their house has better,

00:37:39   faster internet now. Take a speed test with your old internet, take it out, put the Eros

00:37:47   in, take another speed test, and you get better results. And they have a nice ad. I don't

00:37:53   know that Apple could do better than Eros. I really don't. I think they could do as good,

00:37:56   but I don't know that they can do better. And I know there's a couple of other companies

00:38:00   that are doing the same thing with these mesh networks, where you have a couple of devices

00:38:05   around your house.

00:38:07   I don't know, but I do know this.

00:38:10   If they're going to sell them, they

00:38:11   should have updated hardware that's

00:38:13   competitive with its current state of the art.

00:38:15   And if they're not, they should get the hell out

00:38:18   of the business and put Eros or some other brand

00:38:21   in the Apple Store and tell people to buy those instead.

00:38:24   As it stands right now, if you go into the Apple Store

00:38:27   and you're like, hey, I just moved to a new apartment.

00:38:30   I want to set up a new Wi-Fi network.

00:38:33   If you go in the Apple Store and do it,

00:38:34   You're going to get a-- right now, today, as we record,

00:38:37   you're going to get a substandard product.

00:38:39   That's antithetical to the Apple brand.

00:38:41   I really do believe that--

00:38:46   and I really do stand by this.

00:38:48   I think it's true that the Apple brand, a big part of it

00:38:51   for non-expert users is that you can go to the Apple store

00:38:57   and buy-- if they sell it, what you're buying from them

00:39:00   will be one of the best--

00:39:02   a great product.

00:39:03   It doesn't matter what it is.

00:39:04   If you're going in to buy a phone,

00:39:06   you're gonna get an iPhone.

00:39:07   If you're gonna get a laptop,

00:39:08   you're gonna get a MacBook.

00:39:09   These are great products.

00:39:11   And for stuff that they,

00:39:13   the other type of stuff they sell from third parties,

00:39:15   they're good stuff.

00:39:16   Like if you get an iPhone case from the Apple store,

00:39:18   it's gonna be a good case.

00:39:19   It's not gonna be a piece of junk.

00:39:21   But if you get a base station today,

00:39:23   you're gonna get one that's slower than if you bought Eros.

00:39:26   So I think they should either get out of the business

00:39:29   or update the hardware.

00:39:31   - I might have to try that out, Eros.

00:39:33   I just don't get, do you get it?

00:39:35   I don't get why they're still signed.

00:39:37   - Yeah, and you know.

00:39:39   - I think with the Mac Pro,

00:39:43   and we can segue here into the Mac Pro.

00:39:46   I think with the Mac Pro,

00:39:48   my guess is that something went terribly wrong

00:39:51   with that radical new design of the trashcan Mac Pro.

00:39:55   Whether it's hard to make,

00:39:57   whether this factory in the United States,

00:40:00   where is it, Austin, isn't working out,

00:40:02   And that if it's some kind of thing where they anticipated

00:40:08   that it would be easy to get new updated chips and GPUs

00:40:12   and put them in the same design and it's not,

00:40:15   if it's proving too expensive to make

00:40:18   and they need to redesign.

00:40:20   And if they had to redesign a new product that

00:40:22   was in the works that failed somehow,

00:40:24   I think there's some kind of complicated story like that,

00:40:27   where they intended to have updated hardware

00:40:30   And something happened behind the scenes

00:40:33   that kept them from releasing it.

00:40:35   Like they were expecting X, Y, and Z from Intel in 2016,

00:40:40   and Intel failed to deliver,

00:40:43   and it left them holding the bag

00:40:44   'cause they didn't have a plan B.

00:40:46   I don't know, something like that.

00:40:48   But with the airport base stations,

00:40:50   it doesn't make any sense to me

00:40:51   why they couldn't have an updated product

00:40:55   if they wanted to.

00:40:58   - Well, and what's strange is that when we,

00:41:01   I don't know, what was it, like three weeks ago

00:41:03   or a month ago, they released the first update,

00:41:05   software update for it in God knows how long.

00:41:10   - For what?

00:41:11   - For the airport base station.

00:41:12   - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:14   - You know, just, I don't know, I agree with you, I do.

00:41:18   See, you say that there's other products out there

00:41:26   are faster there are other products out there that are just as easy to use and I haven't tried any of

00:41:34   those I still have two airport base stations one time capsule and one a regular and that's what I

00:41:47   use you know so I haven't had the need to to try any of the others so for me everything works fine

00:41:56   If I could get more speed then that would be great

00:41:59   I would love that and if Apple is is not going to keep up with it. I mean if

00:42:05   The thing that we love the most about Apple products is I think is the integration or one of the things yeah

00:42:14   You know everything just kind of works together

00:42:16   You know the automatic backups for for time machine and you know you get one of these

00:42:24   and everything just, it just works.

00:42:26   Everything talks to each other, it's great.

00:42:29   And I love that.

00:42:30   I love not having to think about all the things

00:42:34   that Apple does for us.

00:42:37   So.

00:42:40   - Well, it doesn't always just work,

00:42:41   which is another topic of conversation,

00:42:43   but sometimes it does, and when it does,

00:42:45   it's easy to forget just how cool it is.

00:42:47   Like, one of the ones that works for me now,

00:42:50   and I hadn't actually tried it for a while,

00:42:52   for a while because my iCloud account was, I don't know, I couldn't have, I

00:42:57   couldn't turn two-factor authentication on. I had two, they had two, it's very

00:43:02   confusing. There was like an older thing that they had that wasn't called

00:43:04   two-factor. It was like two-form identification and it's like it

00:43:10   did send things to my iPhone, you know, I had that turned on, but it's like when

00:43:15   you have that turned on, you have to turn it off before you could switch to the

00:43:18   real two-factor and then when I did that, my iCloud account couldn't have two, it

00:43:23   just didn't give me the option to turn on two-factor. But without two-factor

00:43:27   authentication on your iCloud, you can't use, this is what I'm getting to, you

00:43:30   can't use the new "unlock your Mac with your Apple Watch" feature. Yes. So anyway, I

00:43:36   got that straightened out somehow and I turned two-factor on my iCloud account

00:43:42   and I've, you know, got a watch here running watchOS 3.1 and the unlock your

00:43:49   Mac with the watch thing is amazing. It's absolutely amazing. Yes, love it.

00:43:54   I can't believe it and it works really well and I know that it's one of those

00:44:01   things I think it was Mac OS that the 10.12.2 update, the same update where

00:44:08   they took out the time remaining for the battery thing.

00:44:13   - Yeah.

00:44:14   - The same update, one of the other features

00:44:16   that was a bullet point, you know, like,

00:44:18   "Hey, here's what we've got in this minor update

00:44:21   to Mac OS X."

00:44:23   I guess I just call it Mac OS now, Sierra,

00:44:26   was that they made the unlock with your watch a lot faster.

00:44:32   Now, I didn't use it before that though,

00:44:36   so I don't know what the speed was,

00:44:37   but the speed now is amazing.

00:44:39   It tells you, as you wake up your Mac,

00:44:42   it's like unlocking with Apple Watch.

00:44:43   - Right.

00:44:45   - And in way less time than it would take me

00:44:47   to enter my password, I'm in.

00:44:50   - And part of the thing that they fixed with that

00:44:54   is even the language to set it up.

00:44:57   - Yes. - Because before,

00:44:59   they didn't really explain to you what was going on,

00:45:03   and if something went wrong,

00:45:05   then it just kind of went wrong, you know?

00:45:09   And I was very fortunate that I had,

00:45:15   well, I set up a couple that went perfectly fine,

00:45:20   and then I set up one that just would not work,

00:45:24   and I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work.

00:45:27   So now the language is better,

00:45:31   they're being a bit more interactive

00:45:33   what they're doing so all of that helps you know I I really like the the unlock

00:45:40   with Apple watch because I I work a lot on my laptop on my Mac right now I'm

00:45:49   using a MacBook Pro and I work on that a lot so whenever I walk up to it it just

00:45:55   unlocks and I don't know about you but I'll get up and go grab a coffee or you

00:46:02   get on the phone or you know, just take a little walk and and then when I come back it's locked and

00:46:08   It's not a big deal. Honestly to type in your password. It's just more efficient not to

00:46:15   if your Apple watch is connected and

00:46:18   You know again that integration and the things that that Apple saves, you know the efficiency

00:46:27   To me is a big deal

00:46:29   Well, let's circle back to the Mac Pro.

00:46:37   People look at this and I think we're maybe so...

00:46:42   I understand.

00:46:43   I said it was almost like a form of paranoia and I think it's because I think people recognize

00:46:50   that if you prefer a desktop-style interface, meaning a keyboard and a mouse and Windows

00:46:59   that are stacked on a screen.

00:47:01   And you could choose Mac, you could choose Windows,

00:47:05   and then on the open source side,

00:47:08   there's a bunch of Linux variants.

00:47:11   I linked to a guy this week who tried like 10 of them.

00:47:13   Did you see that, where he tried like 10 different--

00:47:16   because he's trying to prepare for what

00:47:17   happens if Mac OS goes away, or at least for his own needs

00:47:22   as a Ruby developer.

00:47:25   And I think what people who really love and get the Mac

00:47:30   understand is that there's nothing--

00:47:32   the other ones are nothing like the Mac.

00:47:34   Like, I would--

00:47:36   I don't know.

00:47:36   Honest to God, I think I'd just stop working

00:47:39   if I had to use Windows.

00:47:42   I don't know.

00:47:42   I'd become like a--

00:47:44   I don't know, lumberjack or something.

00:47:45   [LAUGHTER]

00:47:47   I don't know.

00:47:47   I'm not cut out for physical labor.

00:47:49   I'd have to find--

00:47:50   I want to see that.

00:47:51   I'd have to find something else.

00:47:52   I don't know.

00:47:55   I don't know.

00:47:55   become a podcaster and just record on tapes.

00:48:01   I would find it.

00:48:01   But there is something--

00:48:04   The Mac OS is amazing.

00:48:06   It's so good in so many ways for a power user.

00:48:13   And it doesn't mean--

00:48:14   and I realize, and I think the fear that people see

00:48:17   is people see that iOS sells way more devices, especially phones,

00:48:22   but iPads.

00:48:23   However much iPads have declined in sales from their peak,

00:48:28   they still outsell the Mac.

00:48:30   And there are a lot of people, for a lot of people,

00:48:34   the iPad can be a great main computer, and people see that.

00:48:39   And it gives them the fear that Apple's going to say,

00:48:44   "Well, why waste time on the Mac?"

00:48:46   Much like why waste time updating airport base stations

00:48:50   when iOS is where it's at,

00:48:52   and we'll just make everybody move to iOS.

00:48:54   I don't think that's reasonable.

00:48:58   I don't think that's the case,

00:48:59   but I think I'm loosely articulating

00:49:02   the fear that's out there, clearly.

00:49:04   I mean, you can't deny that there are people

00:49:07   who are worried about this, right?

00:49:09   - Oh, of course, yes, absolutely.

00:49:11   - I mean, it is one of the main topics of conversation

00:49:13   of Mac power users right now.

00:49:16   And let's just put it out there.

00:49:20   There's absolute, there's proof that something is wrong

00:49:23   in so far as the Mac Pro is like 1100 days old

00:49:28   and hasn't been updated.

00:49:29   - Yeah. - I mean, that is a fact.

00:49:31   That's un-inarguable.

00:49:33   - Yeah, you can't argue the facts that are out there,

00:49:37   but is there, we're very quick to believe,

00:49:42   and in some cases we know that Apple has prototypes

00:49:50   of different products.

00:49:54   You know, they're actively working on new products

00:50:00   and they have those prototypes.

00:50:02   But for some reason we refuse to believe

00:50:06   that they're working on new Macs.

00:50:08   - Right.

00:50:09   - And is that our problem or is it, you know,

00:50:14   Apple's problem?

00:50:15   I think it's partly Apple's problem

00:50:16   because they haven't updated the damn thing.

00:50:18   I think one of the problems is a misconception among people

00:50:23   who I think should even know better,

00:50:25   that they see Apple as almost omnipotent.

00:50:28   What I think is the case is that something

00:50:33   has gone horribly wrong.

00:50:35   This is not their plan.

00:50:36   Apple never planned to go three years

00:50:39   without an update to this,

00:50:40   and that something behind the scenes,

00:50:42   or maybe multiple things,

00:50:43   like it's a domino effect of one thing leading to another,

00:50:48   has left them, and that they are, inside Apple,

00:50:53   terribly embarrassed.

00:50:55   And there are people up the chain who are angry.

00:50:59   But because it's Apple, and Apple keep their mouth shut,

00:51:04   the story doesn't leak.

00:51:06   And so from the outside, it's a disastrous development process

00:51:16   for either an updated Mac Pro similar to the one

00:51:20   that they unveiled three years ago,

00:51:23   or an all new Mac Pro that is a totally new design

00:51:28   because the reason that this one went without an update

00:51:30   was there were various things that were wrong with it,

00:51:33   from Apple's perspective.

00:51:35   One way or the other, that those development projects

00:51:37   went so wrong that they're delayed by years.

00:51:41   Is that possible?

00:51:42   I think there's a lot of people out there

00:51:43   who think that Apple has so many resources

00:51:46   and is so wealthy and good at this stuff

00:51:50   that that couldn't be the case.

00:51:52   And therefore, Apple has willfully and purposefully

00:51:56   put the Mac Pro in the state that it's in.

00:51:58   I think there's a lot of people who think that,

00:51:59   and I think they're wrong.

00:52:00   I think Apple could, it's,

00:52:03   I think they push the boundaries so hard

00:52:05   that they fail all the time, and we just don't know it.

00:52:08   - Well, yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.

00:52:10   But if something like the,

00:52:12   if what you're describing is true,

00:52:15   then it would have to be something outside of Apple's control.

00:52:19   But we've seen—

00:52:21   I don't know, though.

00:52:22   Just think—I don't even think it could be.

00:52:24   Like, just think back—and I know it seems like ancient history,

00:52:26   but think back to the Mac cube in 2002.

00:52:29   I love the cube. I still have a cube.

00:52:31   I wish that I wanted one.

00:52:33   I coveted one desperately,

00:52:34   because it seemed like a perfect computer for me,

00:52:36   but it was outside my budget.

00:52:38   I loved it.

00:52:39   But with those, like, the fine cracks that were in it, you know.

00:52:42   That was out, you know, that was within their control.

00:52:45   It's things like that.

00:52:47   Like, remember, to me, the best example

00:52:50   that things can go terribly wrong for Apple proof

00:52:53   is the white iPhone 4.

00:52:57   Oh, yeah.

00:52:58   Right?

00:52:59   With the camera.

00:53:00   And the first iPhone 4, this was the last iPhone

00:53:04   that was released at the June time frame.

00:53:07   The 4S, I think, was the one that moved to September.

00:53:12   So they announced it at WWDC, and it's a radical new design.

00:53:17   It's got a glass back.

00:53:19   It really was just a great improvement.

00:53:23   It's the first one that went retina.

00:53:27   The 3GS was sort of like the cheapest looking iPhone

00:53:31   that they ever made, the 3G, 3GS with the plastic back.

00:53:34   So it's like a premium upgrade in materials.

00:53:38   It's just great in so many ways.

00:53:42   and they say it's available in black and white.

00:53:44   And the black one comes out at the end of June

00:53:46   or first week of July.

00:53:47   And then they say, well, there's a couple of weeks

00:53:49   on the white one.

00:53:50   And it's like a couple of weeks.

00:53:51   And then it ends up, the thing doesn't ship

00:53:53   until May of the next year, right?

00:53:55   - Yeah, yeah.

00:53:56   - I mean, it was so close.

00:53:57   It was close to when people were anticipating

00:53:59   the next iPhone would come out,

00:54:00   even though it didn't come out in June.

00:54:02   But that meant people, you know,

00:54:05   it was almost a full year late

00:54:07   of a product that they announced.

00:54:09   and they've mumbled something about manufacturing process.

00:54:13   (laughing)

00:54:14   They never really, 'cause they don't,

00:54:15   or Apple, they don't wanna explain what went wrong.

00:54:18   - Right, but it was the camera, right?

00:54:20   - I don't remember, no, I think it was something with,

00:54:23   'cause it was the same camera as black, right?

00:54:25   Or was it that the white interfered with the camera?

00:54:27   - Right, right, I seem to remember that that was

00:54:30   when you took a picture,

00:54:34   the white would interfere with how the picture turned out.

00:54:39   - Not, and it was, you know, as far as I understand,

00:54:42   it was like, if everything went perfectly

00:54:45   in the manufacturing of the white back thing, it was fine.

00:54:50   It's just that when they started trying to pump millions

00:54:52   of them out, you know, at the full production rate,

00:54:54   some of them, too many of them, like, had this flaw,

00:54:57   where, right, like, too much light got in

00:54:59   and it ruined the thing.

00:55:00   Because I remember, it was bizarre,

00:55:05   it was like when they antenna gate,

00:55:06   were you there for the antenna gate press?

00:55:09   - I couldn't make it.

00:55:11   It was on short notice, I couldn't make it.

00:55:13   - Literally, same day.

00:55:14   I mean, I remember whatever day it was,

00:55:16   they called me and they were like,

00:55:17   "It's tomorrow morning."

00:55:18   So I was like, I think it's the only time

00:55:21   I've ever done this.

00:55:22   I got the phone call at like two o'clock Eastern time here

00:55:28   and found a four o'clock flight to SFO.

00:55:33   And so, I was like, I booked it.

00:55:37   And it wasn't ungodly expensive, but booking

00:55:40   a flight that leaves in two hours is kind of expensive.

00:55:43   And I told Amy, I got to go.

00:55:45   Apple's having a thing about this antenna thing tomorrow.

00:55:48   I got a flight.

00:55:49   And I was in a cab on the way to the airport about 20 minutes

00:55:54   after I'd gotten off the phone with Apple.

00:55:58   and it was like the last,

00:56:00   I mean, I think I had a couple of other choices,

00:56:02   but it was the only nonstop that was remaining for the day.

00:56:05   But anyway, I remember going there for that meeting,

00:56:09   and I was in the group of people

00:56:13   that got the tour of the antenna facilities.

00:56:15   I don't know, it was about 20 of us.

00:56:16   And while we were doing that,

00:56:18   we're walking between Town Hall

00:56:21   and where they were gonna show us

00:56:22   these antenna testing rooms.

00:56:24   We're there in the middle of the campus.

00:56:26   At the events now, they let us,

00:56:28   they have us go through the middle of Infinite Loops campus.

00:56:31   But back then, that was very rare.

00:56:33   They'd let you in like.

00:56:35   - Yeah, yeah.

00:56:37   - They had like one door that you could go in

00:56:39   and you were right there in front of town hall

00:56:41   and that was it.

00:56:42   Like you weren't going anywhere.

00:56:44   Now they let us, they have us come in the main door

00:56:46   and we get a little walk through the campus.

00:56:50   But back in the Katie Cotton days,

00:56:51   you didn't get to see anything.

00:56:53   But we did to get to this thing.

00:56:55   And the thing that I remember was this is just,

00:56:57   when was it, it was like August, I think.

00:57:00   There were Apple employees walking around with white iPhones.

00:57:03   It's a very long story to say.

00:57:05   (laughing)

00:57:07   But anyway, the white iPhone 4 is proof that Apple,

00:57:11   something can go disastrously wrong between prototype

00:57:15   and saying, okay, yes, this is good to go,

00:57:19   we're gonna make this in mass production,

00:57:21   and then making it in mass production.

00:57:23   something can go wrong.

00:57:24   And I think something like that has gone wrong

00:57:26   with the Mac Pro.

00:57:27   I have no reason to believe it

00:57:29   other than that it makes the most sense to me.

00:57:32   No little birdies have told me anything like this,

00:57:34   but I definitely think it's possible.

00:57:36   And I think the pessimism out there

00:57:37   is that there's too many people

00:57:39   who think that that couldn't happen to Apple

00:57:42   because Apple is too rich, too good, too smart.

00:57:47   - Well,

00:57:52   Do you ever see a time, oh not ever, in the next few years that Apple will come out and say

00:57:59   we're done with the Mac or we're done with the pro levels?

00:58:03   No, I don't. In fact, I think the pro levels are the ones that have the the biggest future. I think

00:58:08   the thing that makes the Mac essential is the pro level. People often bring up, and I think it's

00:58:21   It's a good point now, but it's just one of many pro use cases.

00:58:25   The one thing-- I've seen this argument a lot,

00:58:27   that no Apple-- the Mac will be around forever because you need

00:58:31   a Mac to make iPhone apps.

00:58:34   And what could Apple do if they abandoned the Mac?

00:58:38   How would you make iPhone apps?

00:58:40   Well, they could, in theory, port Xcode to Windows,

00:58:44   and the story would be, OK, if you want to write iPhone apps,

00:58:47   you have to use Windows.

00:58:49   I mean, technically, that could happen.

00:58:51   there is 0% chance that Apple would do that.

00:58:53   - Zero. - Zero.

00:58:53   - Zero.

00:58:55   - Okay, so let me ask you this.

00:58:58   If I say to you right now,

00:59:02   John, I want you to write and post this story

00:59:07   and hang up and go,

00:59:12   would you go to your Mac or your iPad?

00:59:14   - Well, I would go to the Mac.

00:59:15   I do almost all of my work on the Mac,

00:59:17   but I don't dispute the fact that there are people

00:59:20   like Federico Vittucci and Ben Brooks,

00:59:22   who are more productive for them.

00:59:25   For different people, iOS could be,

00:59:30   I see the appeal of it, I don't deny it.

00:59:33   I feel like that's another mistake

00:59:36   a lot of Mac proponents, people who love the Mac

00:59:39   and want to really do it.

00:59:41   There's some people, I see it on Twitter all the time,

00:59:43   where they say you can't do real work on an iPad.

00:59:47   - Yeah, that's wrong.

00:59:49   and that the people who do are just sort of dilatants,

00:59:53   you know, that they're, you know, they're trying,

00:59:55   it's like being a hipster, you know, like, you know.

00:59:57   - Federico and Ben have done some amazing things

01:00:03   workflow-wise, work-wise, everything on their iPads.

01:00:08   I use my iPad all the time.

01:00:10   I actually use multiple iPads all the time.

01:00:13   I love the iPad, but if I'm gonna sit down

01:00:18   and do some work, it's gonna be on my Mac.

01:00:21   - Yeah, it just fits my plan better.

01:00:22   - Either my iMac or my MacBook Pro.

01:00:27   That's what it's gonna be for me.

01:00:29   And that's what I grew up with,

01:00:33   what I did my business with.

01:00:36   The iPad, the iPhone, all of those things,

01:00:39   the big word is the computer in your pocket.

01:00:43   That's absolutely true.

01:00:44   It is absolutely true.

01:00:46   And I never forced myself to use an iPad or an iPhone

01:00:51   to do, you know, like as soon as the new product comes out,

01:00:56   people say, oh, I'm gonna use this for a month

01:00:58   instead of my Mac.

01:00:59   I don't do stuff like that.

01:01:01   I use it how it fits into my workflow.

01:01:05   And it does, it fits very well into my workflow.

01:01:09   So I have things that I can do with it.

01:01:12   But the Mac for me is still,

01:01:15   I mean, when I record and write music,

01:01:19   that's on the 27-inch iMac.

01:01:21   That's a powerful machine.

01:01:23   And when the Mac Pro, the MacBook Pro came out,

01:01:28   I had a Logic project.

01:01:32   Logic is a, that's a professional level audio workstation.

01:01:37   I had 48 tracks running simultaneously audio, MIDI,

01:01:44   recording and I was editing. I mean, this is all live and the MacBook Pro had no issue at all with

01:01:52   it. It just went right through. So they're all powerful computers these days. Are we at the stage

01:01:58   where we actually don't need a Mac Pro? Are the other computers powerful enough for everything

01:02:05   that we need to do? I do think that that's a legitimate question. I wish that Apple would

01:02:11   keep making Mac Pros and putting the fastest Intel processors they can possibly get, figuring

01:02:19   out a very clever engineered way to either reduce the need for a fan or to make the fan

01:02:28   as utterly silent as possible.

01:02:30   Because it's just one of those things that Apple cares about that I feel like if you

01:02:36   had to use some other company's computers, it's like they make more noise.

01:02:40   It's like having a nice quiet computer is important to me.

01:02:43   And I think it's important to a lot of pros.

01:02:46   And I think that's one, it's just,

01:02:48   it's why people are Mac users.

01:02:49   People are Mac users 'cause they care about the details.

01:02:52   And like a computer that makes noise makes them angry.

01:02:55   Whereas people who don't really care about the details

01:02:57   are like, oh yeah, but it makes noise like a hairdryer.

01:02:59   Who cares?

01:03:01   I don't care, I'll put headphones on.

01:03:02   You know, and it's like, no,

01:03:04   you just spent a lot of money on this computer.

01:03:05   It should be silent.

01:03:07   So I hope they do.

01:03:08   But given the evidence that they haven't updated it

01:03:11   in three years, it's a legitimate fear

01:03:15   that the message is no, the Mac's not dead.

01:03:17   We love the Mac, the Mac has a bright future,

01:03:19   but the Mac's future is iMacs and MacBooks.

01:03:22   - What do you make of what Tim Cook did after,

01:03:28   it was Bloomberg, I think, that wrote the story

01:03:31   about that the Mac is basically gone.

01:03:36   And Tim came out in a Q&A and company.

01:03:40   Yeah, internally knowing that it was going to leak.

01:03:43   Of course, yeah, they know all that.

01:03:45   Well, I, what did he say?

01:03:48   Do we have the transcript?

01:03:49   They had a great max in the pipeline.

01:03:53   Right.

01:03:54   You know, we didn't specify, but.

01:03:57   I think he said great desktops in the pipeline.

01:04:01   I think he said that, which is, you know,

01:04:05   could just mean IMAX.

01:04:07   - It could.

01:04:08   I mean, people are still pining for new Mac Minis.

01:04:14   I think that's over.

01:04:16   - I kinda do too, which is a shame,

01:04:18   but it's nowhere near.

01:04:20   It's clearly the least essential product that Apple makes.

01:04:23   And I know that that's painful for the people,

01:04:25   'cause that's the one thing about it,

01:04:26   is that yes, I think most people who buy a Mac Mini

01:04:29   are just typical Mac users who are on a budget,

01:04:34   Maybe they already have a display

01:04:35   that they don't want to replace.

01:04:37   And so why spend all the money on an iMac with it's gorgeous?

01:04:42   And in my opinion, the best, it's still,

01:04:44   it's over a year since it's been updated,

01:04:45   but I think it's the best display

01:04:47   on the market, period, hands down.

01:04:50   It's a unbelievable display.

01:04:52   Mine, I have the one from the year before

01:04:55   that doesn't have the high color gamut,

01:04:57   and I still think it's an amazing, amazing display.

01:05:00   I love it, I'm looking at it right now.

01:05:02   But I realize that there are also, and I'm sure that they're listening to the show, I'm sure I hear from them all the time, I get email from them, that there are power users who use the Mac Mini in various ways.

01:05:15   Maybe it is their main computer, but they have very sensible reasons why they wanted Mac Mini.

01:05:21   And then there's also the enthusiasts who use Mac Minis to make their own home entertainment system.

01:05:29   Instead of getting an Apple TV, they use the Mac Mini

01:05:32   and they can run all sorts of stuff

01:05:33   and play movies that have fallen off the bus

01:05:36   and the back of the truck and stuff like that.

01:05:39   (laughing)

01:05:41   And for them, it's a shame because I think

01:05:43   making a Hackintosh type thing to do that

01:05:48   is never gonna be as nice, especially 'cause the Mac Mini,

01:05:50   you just want this small, silent computer.

01:05:53   But I kind of feel like Apple just,

01:05:55   there's no reason for Apple

01:05:58   really care too much about that. I'd love to see it updated, like just a, even just

01:06:02   like a small speed bump, but I don't know. Here's what Tim said. Some folks in the

01:06:07   media have raised the question about whether we're committed to desktops. If there's

01:06:11   any doubt about that with our teams, let me be very clear. We have great desktops in our

01:06:17   roadmap. Nobody should worry about that. Right. I, here's something about that. Now I've

01:06:22   Skepticism is a good thing, right?

01:06:26   I encourage it.

01:06:27   And I think everybody should be skeptical about anything

01:06:33   that somebody who works at a company

01:06:35   can say, including the CEO.

01:06:37   And of course, Tim Cook, it's in his interest

01:06:39   to say good things about Apple.

01:06:40   So of course, don't just assume that it's true.

01:06:45   But one of the things about what he said is, again,

01:06:48   it doesn't say anything about the Mac Pro.

01:06:50   So it could mean that the future of the desktop Mac is iMacs.

01:06:54   And I could see them going that route and saying, hey,

01:06:57   and at the high end, we've got this iMac.

01:07:00   Call it the iMac Pro.

01:07:02   Maybe it's all black instead of silver.

01:07:04   And the iMac Pro comes with a faster set of Intel chips

01:07:09   than you could get previously and a professional GPU.

01:07:13   That's possible.

01:07:16   I don't know how in the current form factor

01:07:19   if that could be cooled sufficiently.

01:07:20   I don't know.

01:07:22   Apple comes up with clever ways to cool things, so I don't know.

01:07:25   I could see that being the story for pro users.

01:07:27   And I know that that would be frustrating for people who

01:07:30   don't want a built-in display.

01:07:31   They just want standalone displays, et cetera, et cetera.

01:07:35   But I could see that being the story.

01:07:36   But there's no way-- the thing about Tim Cook's statement

01:07:38   is that his credibility to his own employees matters.

01:07:43   And if it's false-- I saw people on Twitter when I came in.

01:07:48   "Yeah, Tim Cook's full of shit, of course he'd say that."

01:07:51   If there are no desktops coming,

01:07:53   it's not like people who worked at Apple

01:07:56   are going to forget that Tim Cook said,

01:07:58   you have no, literally said,

01:08:00   you have no reason to worry about that.

01:08:01   - Yeah.

01:08:03   - His credibility goes right down the toilet, right?

01:08:05   Like that's a permanent mark against his credibility.

01:08:09   - How do you reconcile that with the fact

01:08:14   that Steve would say things all the time

01:08:16   and then turn around and do the opposite?

01:08:18   you know, we're not gonna have a smaller iPad.

01:08:21   Here's the iPad mini. (laughs)

01:08:23   - Because this, well, but this was,

01:08:25   when Steve would say things that,

01:08:32   and then a year later turn around and say the opposite,

01:08:35   and it was never like,

01:08:37   it was never a thing where you feel like you were burned.

01:08:41   - Yeah, okay.

01:08:42   - So here's a good example, right?

01:08:43   They come out with the, they call it the iPod Photos, right?

01:08:46   Wasn't that the name of the product?

01:08:47   It was the first iPod with a color display.

01:08:50   You could sync it to your iPhotos,

01:08:52   and you'd get your photos on there.

01:08:54   And then people immediately after the product was announced,

01:08:58   they'd say, well, now that you have a color screen,

01:09:00   why doesn't it play video?

01:09:01   And Steve Jobs said, nobody wants

01:09:03   to watch video on a little two-inch screen.

01:09:05   Now, why would they want to look at their photos

01:09:07   on a two-inch screen but not watch video?

01:09:09   I don't know.

01:09:10   But that's what he said.

01:09:11   Nobody wants to watch video on a two-inch screen.

01:09:13   And then a year later, they came out

01:09:14   with an iPod with the same size screen,

01:09:16   and now it played videos.

01:09:18   (laughing)

01:09:19   Right, but people aren't mad because now they have,

01:09:23   if what you wanted was an iPod that plays videos,

01:09:27   the fact that a year later he told a totally different story

01:09:29   didn't make you mad, it made you happy

01:09:32   'cause now you could buy an iPod that played videos.

01:09:35   The difference would be if Steve Jobs said,

01:09:38   before it came out, people are asking for an iPod

01:09:42   that plays videos, let me assure you,

01:09:45   we are working on it and it's going to be awesome.

01:09:47   And it's in the pipeline, so don't worry about it.

01:09:50   It's gonna be great.

01:09:50   You're gonna be able to watch video right from your pocket.

01:09:53   And then it never shipped.

01:09:55   Well then that would make people angry, right?

01:09:57   That's what the case would be with the new desktops

01:09:59   with Tim Cook and his credibility.

01:10:01   Again, it's not like he isn't capable of spin,

01:10:09   but when he does, it's not,

01:10:12   it's very, very carefully worded

01:10:14   and it's not bullshit.

01:10:16   It's definitely spin it sometimes, but it's not bullshit.

01:10:20   - Well, to be clear, I trust him.

01:10:24   I don't believe that Tim would commode

01:10:27   and say what he said if it wasn't true.

01:10:30   - Right, I agree.

01:10:31   Even if it's not that you trust him personally,

01:10:35   and I do.

01:10:37   - I do.

01:10:37   - But even if you just want to take

01:10:39   your own personal opinions of him out,

01:10:41   It just makes no sense for him to say what he said

01:10:45   if it wasn't true.

01:10:46   - No, he can just do what they do most of the time

01:10:48   and just let it roll.

01:10:50   - Right.

01:10:51   So here's an example where I think Tim Cook spins

01:10:54   and says something that I don't quite think is true.

01:10:58   I think that his stance on privacy

01:11:02   and where Apple stands competitively with Google

01:11:05   in particular, but other companies like Facebook,

01:11:08   is to me a little self-serving.

01:11:11   insofar as that he'll say that other companies collect

01:11:16   your personal data so that they can sell it.

01:11:18   It's not really what Google does.

01:11:20   They don't really sell your personal data.

01:11:24   It's not-- what he says isn't really untrue.

01:11:27   It's not false.

01:11:27   It's not a blatant lie.

01:11:29   But I think it's a very euphemistic spin

01:11:33   on the state of affairs to cover up for the state of Apple's--

01:11:39   Apple's personalization in certain areas.

01:11:46   Well, yeah.

01:11:47   I mean--

01:11:48   I'm just saying, it's a sidetrack.

01:11:50   I just think that what he says about--

01:11:52   and I do think Apple cares about your privacy, right?

01:11:55   It's largely true.

01:11:57   I think Apple does care about your privacy.

01:11:59   I think Google cares about your privacy, too,

01:12:01   insofar as it's very important that Google's users and people

01:12:05   who are the most embedded in their ecosystem

01:12:07   trust the company with their information, right? It is in Google's very highest

01:12:14   interest to keep the information they collect about you safe.

01:12:18   But they, I think that's part of it though, that Google collects so much information and

01:12:26   Apple really collects none. They anonymize, you know, almost everything. So they don't want your

01:12:32   information they want and you know the old saying if you didn't buy the product you are the product

01:12:39   so well again no that's i believe that i've used that i you know you can find a bunch of posts on

01:12:46   during fireball where i've i've used that but i do think that it sometimes when tim cook throws it

01:12:51   out there it's spin and it's not again not false it's not bullshit but it is a decidedly and

01:12:58   carefully worded way of saying things in Apple's favor that maybe isn't really the most objective

01:13:04   way of saying it, period. I don't see that at all with his comments on the desktop, right?

01:13:09   Right.

01:13:09   That's the only reason I'm going down this whole path on cooking privacy is that I think that,

01:13:14   you know, is spin. I think with the desktop, there's no spin. He looks like a fool if it's

01:13:19   not true.

01:13:19   Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don't see that at all. I mean, they saw this Bloomberg story

01:13:27   and knew that they had to respond in some way,

01:13:32   or they wanted to respond in some way.

01:13:34   So I think it was very strong response.

01:13:37   Yeah.

01:13:37   I also-- and I keep reiterating this--

01:13:43   I think that the software schedule that Mac OS is on

01:13:46   is proof the other way, that Apple is very, very heavily

01:13:52   invested in the Mac and cares about it,

01:13:54   because it's annual.

01:13:58   It's like clockwork now, just like iOS,

01:14:00   that there's going to be a significant feature

01:14:02   update to Mac OS every year.

01:14:06   And it didn't used to be that way.

01:14:09   It was like the early years of Mac OS,

01:14:11   there were very frequent updates.

01:14:12   10.1 came out like six months after 10.0,

01:14:15   because 10.0 was effectively a public beta.

01:14:18   They were just sick of calling it a beta.

01:14:21   And 10.2 and 10.3, I think even 10.4,

01:14:24   came out really quickly because there were so many problems back then. It was

01:14:28   just so slow. The interface was slow. They were doing so much compared to what the hardware was capable of that they really had to work very hard to get it to.

01:14:40   I think 10.4 was the first version. I think that was called Tiger. That was sort of like, "Yeah, this is actually pretty good."

01:14:45   And then it slowed down, right? And especially when the iPhone first came out and they even

01:14:51   one time even had to issue a press release that said hey we were gonna release you know mac os

01:14:55   10 point whatever it was at wwdc in june 2007 but we've had to pull so many engineers to work on the

01:15:02   first i release of iphone's os that it's going to be delayed till october you know yeah and then

01:15:08   uh you remember in the the years following that it was a crapshoot about what apple was going to

01:15:16   do at WDC was it going to be a Mac show or an iOS show and then finally you know a few years ago

01:15:25   they I don't know if they have enough resources or you know it's it's running parallel but now

01:15:33   it's both you know now when you go to to WDC it's both Mac and iOS because you know they're

01:15:39   integrating and and stuff like that but for a while it wasn't it was one or the other so anyway

01:15:44   Long story short, I think that the Mac OS story shows that Apple's committed.

01:15:48   I think that the way that I think the touch bar as a piece of hardware is a terrific example of

01:15:54   Apple's commitment to the Mac. I think the fact that the day the touch bar shipped,

01:16:00   Apple's own apps, dozens and dozens of apps in the system had updates with very, very,

01:16:10   you know, thorough touch bar support. Clearly throughout the company, people who work on those

01:16:15   apps, you know, text edit and mail, Safari messages, just you name it, the engineers who

01:16:22   work on those had spent a lot of time working on clever, thoughtful touch bar support. It shows

01:16:28   that there's, you know, within Apple there's a lot of commitment to the Mac. I think the question is

01:16:32   specifically the Mac Pro, and I don't think that even if Apple is getting out of the Mac Pro game,

01:16:38   I don't think it means that the Mac overall, that people need to worry about it.

01:16:42   I think people are losing their minds on this.

01:16:44   Yeah, I agree.

01:16:46   Although, if they are getting out of the Mac Pro game,

01:16:49   it makes no sense to me that they're still selling these Macs, Mac Pros at the same price.

01:16:53   That they should, the way that, if they were getting out of the Mac Pro game,

01:16:57   the way that it would make sense to me would be if,

01:16:59   "Alright, we're not going to update them, but every

01:17:02   nine months, twelve months or so, we'll keep lowering the prices until,

01:17:05   you know, we decide, you know, two, three, whatever that will just take them away.

01:17:10   Do you think they're selling any? I can't imagine that they're selling.

01:17:13   Well, did you see there was a good, I had a link to Chris Adamson just bought one last week.

01:17:17   I'll put it like in the show notes. It's sort of a sad story, really, like where he

01:17:24   obviously was waiting and waiting and waiting to update his old Mac Pro and he does video work.

01:17:32   And I know on ATP, Marco Arment, who stays much more abreast of Intel's chips and what

01:17:43   the names of the chips-- I don't even pay attention to that shit anymore, to tell you

01:17:46   the truth.

01:17:46   Yeah, neither do I.

01:17:47   Because I did see an R's story where they reviewed the new Kaby Lake whatever from Intel.

01:17:52   And the gist of the R summary was, it's pretty much like the last one, just ever so slightly

01:17:57   faster.

01:17:58   I mean, and so it's like, why even bother paying attention?

01:18:00   It's not that interesting.

01:18:02   But the gist of it is he bought it--

01:18:07   I think maybe he might have been better off with an iMac,

01:18:09   and that's what Marco thinks too.

01:18:11   But he didn't.

01:18:13   He bought the Mac Pro, I guess because what he does

01:18:16   is it requires a lot of cores.

01:18:18   And the video processing it does can be parallelized.

01:18:22   But he didn't even buy the 8 or 12 core one.

01:18:25   He bought the 6 core one.

01:18:26   So he didn't even get the most cores.

01:18:29   But anyway, long story short, spoiler, he spent a lot of money on a new Mac Pro because

01:18:34   he needed it and he thinks it was the best thing to do.

01:18:36   And he's eyes wide open about how old this is and how much money it costs.

01:18:40   And then he sold all of his Apple stock.

01:18:42   And he apparently had a very, very significant investment in Apple stock and sold it because

01:18:46   he's so not like angry, not like he thinks he's sticking it to Apple by selling his stock.

01:18:54   It obviously doesn't hurt Apple if you one individual sells your Apple stock because

01:18:57   else bought it. It more though that he, you know, I think his argument was, I bought it way back when

01:19:05   and he apparently bought it, you know, in the dark days when you could really get a, you know,

01:19:09   the stock was way down compared to where it is now. Bought it because he believed in the company

01:19:14   and thought that the market was undervaluing Apple and I think, you know, easy to say, yeah,

01:19:20   he was right and anybody else who did buy stock, you know, like in the late 90s or early 2000s,

01:19:25   thinking, hey, this company has a bright future,

01:19:27   and I don't think the market sees that.

01:19:29   You were right.

01:19:30   And he just doesn't see it anymore,

01:19:31   because he doesn't get Apple anymore.

01:19:34   And I definitely, just on Twitter,

01:19:37   there's an awful lot of people,

01:19:38   and I think that they're drawing a connection

01:19:40   that the people who are most disappointed in Apple today

01:19:43   are the longest term, oldest users,

01:19:46   the ones who got into a company in the '90s

01:19:49   or even the '80s.

01:19:53   I think that a lot of that comes down to loyalty.

01:19:58   We have loyalty to Apple because we believe

01:20:04   that they make great products.

01:20:07   I mean, I'm not blind to Apple's failings,

01:20:12   and I'll bring them up all day long,

01:20:16   but I'm not gonna make up bad things either.

01:20:20   Apple Music, I think, needs a lot of work.

01:20:23   I know that they're working on it.

01:20:27   And I praise them when they do good things.

01:20:31   But I also hit them when they do bad things.

01:20:35   And it's the same with all of their products.

01:20:37   And as long as you're fair, I think that's a good thing.

01:20:42   But the difference with the new Apple customers

01:20:50   is that in my mind, they're general consumers.

01:20:55   So if something new and cool comes out, they'll go buy that,

01:21:01   whether it's Apple or whatever.

01:21:03   So there's not that level of loyalty.

01:21:08   - Before we move off the topic of Mac Pros,

01:21:10   I wanna circle back to that thing I touched on with Xcode,

01:21:15   where that's, you know, don't rest your hat on Xcode,

01:21:19   because there's all sorts of professional things

01:21:21   that are better on the Mac than iOS, right?

01:21:25   And I think that you will, sooner rather than later,

01:21:29   be able to develop apps on an iPad.

01:21:32   I mean, I think that the Swift Playgrounds

01:21:34   is just the first step.

01:21:35   I'm not saying it's coming this year,

01:21:37   but I think that,

01:21:38   and whether they'll call it Xcode or not

01:21:42   when it comes out for iPad, I don't know.

01:21:44   'Cause I think, I don't think it would be,

01:21:47   Xcode as we know it is inextricably tied to the Mac UI paradigm.

01:21:53   It's got all sorts of little tiny things that don't correlate to touch or iOS.

01:21:59   So I think maybe the way that you develop apps would be very different from,

01:22:04   or significantly different from the way you do it now.

01:22:08   So whether they call it Xcode or not.

01:22:09   But I think that the ability to develop apps on an iPad is inevitable.

01:22:16   And it doesn't-- the fear I have is that they'll announce this.

01:22:20   Hey, we have this great new Xcode for iPad.

01:22:22   And look, it's so much easier to-- it's easier than ever to make an app,

01:22:26   blah, blah, blah.

01:22:27   And then people are going to go, that's it, that Mac is doomed,

01:22:30   because now there's Xcode on iPad.

01:22:32   And that's the wrong way to look at it.

01:22:34   It's just that there's so many professional things,

01:22:36   whether it's like the highest end 4K video editing or pro photographers who

01:22:44   go on a shoot and shoot 1,500 or 2,000 photos

01:22:48   and need to sort through them and find the pics.

01:22:52   All sorts of advanced things like that are so much better,

01:22:55   or can be so much better on a Mac.

01:22:57   And the other thing, too, is don't

01:23:00   forget that Apple itself is a company

01:23:03   full of creative people, not just developers.

01:23:05   It's not just Apple's engineers who use Xcode who need Macs.

01:23:08   But Apple is a company full of people

01:23:10   use Photoshop and InDesign and just produce all their marketing materials and stuff. So

01:23:17   they're fully well aware of how creative professionals rely on the Mac.

01:23:22   You have to, at that point, look at Aperture. Gone. Final Cut Pro. Not gone, but...

01:23:36   Well, I think they're still invested in that.

01:23:38   is you know a lot of people say it's not as pro as what it once was um you know logic is still

01:23:46   here but you don't often hear from them anymore yeah it's curious aperture is definitely a curious

01:23:52   a curious uh yeah you know why and i know that you know lightroom exists and i personally

01:23:58   preferred lightroom but that was because way back in the day like when they were both 1.0s

01:24:03   Lightroom was fast and Aperture was slow.

01:24:06   And I know that they fixed that with Aperture

01:24:08   and Aperture eventually got fast too.

01:24:11   And I definitely hear, I see it, I get so much email,

01:24:15   it's great and I really welcome it.

01:24:18   It helps me kinda keep my finger on the pulse

01:24:21   of the people who listen to the show and read my site.

01:24:25   I know that there are a lot of serious,

01:24:27   either photo pros or serious photo prosumers,

01:24:33   Maybe that's not their profession,

01:24:34   but they have serious professional cameras,

01:24:37   and they take it very seriously, who

01:24:40   are still furious about the decision

01:24:42   to walk away from Aperture.

01:24:45   And fully informed and have tried their best

01:24:48   to like Lightroom, don't like Lightroom,

01:24:50   and like the Aperture way.

01:24:54   And I do say, I liked Lightroom, but I definitely

01:24:56   could see how Aperture was a more Appley program.

01:24:59   Because it was Apple, but it just

01:25:01   had like a certain appling appliness and a Macness to it.

01:25:05   With, with some of these things that have happened over the past number of years,

01:25:10   it's easy to see how people are.

01:25:15   They have the, the thought, or can be easily convinced that Apple is getting out

01:25:22   of the, the pro market, all markets, whether that's computers or, uh, you

01:25:28   software or anything else because once you've been hit by this, I mean if you're a photographer and

01:25:32   Aperture is dead

01:25:35   Then you know you're thinking wait a minute. It's been a thousand days now since the Mac Pro has been updated

01:25:41   I mean, it's it's easy to lead yourself down that that path that

01:25:46   Okay, apples out of the pro market, right?

01:25:49   The most important thing has always been not for Apple to make the pro apps that you use

01:25:54   but to make the system where Pro apps can really fly and have all of the

01:25:59   API's and capabilities and the performance that Pro apps need whether they're made by Adobe or other companies, you know

01:26:07   Independent companies like pixel mater and stuff like that. Yeah

01:26:12   Anyway, let me take a break and thank our next sponsor. It's our good friend Harry's who better with the

01:26:18   Jim Dalrymple who literally goes by the nickname the beard than a razor blade company to sponsor the show

01:26:24   Big Blade, here's Harry, you guys know Harry's. They make their own razor blades. They have their

01:26:32   own factory in Germany. There was a link, I'm gonna try to find this, there's a link I had to

01:26:36   somebody went to their razor blade factory and took pictures of it and it's amazing. I love

01:26:40   factories. Sometimes like a big place like that. How do you make stuff like that? They make their

01:26:45   own. Unlike the other guys with the Gillette's and those guys, they come out with new blades every

01:26:52   couple years, new things, and they keep raising the prices.

01:26:55   They'll come out with a new thing,

01:26:56   and it's a better way to shave, but then they raise the price.

01:26:58   Well, Harry's has upgraded their stuff.

01:27:01   They've come out with a new design.

01:27:04   They've added a little trimmer blade,

01:27:06   so it's easy to reach the little place under your nose

01:27:08   where it's hard to get with the full-size blade.

01:27:10   They've added a better lubricating strip, a softer

01:27:13   flex hinge for a more comfortable glide.

01:27:17   They just improved their blades in a whole bunch of ways.

01:27:20   And guess what?

01:27:20   kept the prices exactly the same.

01:27:22   Instead of raising the price and keeping the old ones

01:27:24   and having a new model line, all they did was improve it

01:27:26   and they kept the prices the same.

01:27:28   It's still just two bucks per blade compared to the $4

01:27:31   or more that you will pay for the big name brands.

01:27:34   And I'm talking, I've done this, I've done it a couple times.

01:27:36   You go to Amazon and compare like the competitive price

01:27:39   for like a Gillette or Schick or whoever else you want.

01:27:42   It's really, it's about twice the price of Harry's blades

01:27:46   because they own their own factory

01:27:47   and sell their stuff direct to you.

01:27:49   Here's how confident they are.

01:27:50   Yeah, here's how confident they are.

01:27:52   They're so confident in the quality of their blades

01:27:54   that they will send you their popular free trial set,

01:27:56   which comes with the Razer five blade cartridge

01:27:58   and shaving gel, free when you sign up for a shave plan.

01:28:02   You just pay shipping.

01:28:03   Shave plan means you sign up and you get this kit free

01:28:06   and then they'll just send you replacement blades.

01:28:08   You tell them how often you think you need them

01:28:10   and then they just show up.

01:28:12   And you don't have to do anything.

01:28:13   You don't even have to remember to order new stuff.

01:28:15   They also have a special offer for fans of this show.

01:28:18   It's a special talk show only offer.

01:28:21   You'll get a bottle of Harry's Post Shave Bomb

01:28:24   added to your order for free when you visit harrys.com

01:28:27   and use the code talk show at checkout.

01:28:30   Get their Post Shave Bomb free.

01:28:33   Go to harrys.com, remember that code talk show,

01:28:35   know the just talk show at checkout,

01:28:37   and you'll get your free stuff.

01:28:40   My thanks to them, great, great products, great company.

01:28:43   My thanks for their continuing support of the show.

01:28:47   It's funny the the two sponsors that you've had so far are two things that I already use

01:28:52   Yeah, we use Harry's for you. I can shave underneath the beard like the neck area or something like that. No

01:28:57   No, I leave that alone. Yeah, just on the sides, but yeah, gotcha

01:29:01   Yeah, get the you know, I I don't want to be a total homeless guy. Yeah

01:29:06   You know

01:29:09   Anyway, what do you think let's just this flash forward a little bit here we are talking first week of January

01:29:17   Do you think that Apple's gonna have a March event they've had March events now for a couple of years

01:29:22   Well, the March event would be what a watch or iPad. I don't think watch

01:29:28   I think it would be iPad and maybe like iMac or

01:29:31   Wouldn't it be neat if they surprised us and Mac Pro

01:29:35   That would be neat I think the iPads are due because they did the original iPad Pro the big 12.9 inch one in September last year

01:29:46   To 2015 so that's that product is now

01:29:49   Over a year old and then the the mini Mac

01:29:54   iPad Pro I say Mac Pro. I'm an iPad Pro

01:29:57   Yeah

01:29:58   The 12.9 inch iPad Pro the 9.7 inch iPad Pro is was released like five months later in March of last year

01:30:05   So that'll be a year old in March and I think both of those products, you know

01:30:10   it you know would be easy easy upgrades with the the

01:30:15   A10 system on a chip from the iPhone 7

01:30:18   yeah, I I

01:30:21   guess if

01:30:24   There they seem to be all over the place with the release schedule of of these things

01:30:28   But it makes sense that they would have something around

01:30:32   March but I I think it'll have a lot to do with what they have on

01:30:38   Tapford

01:30:40   WDC because it would make more sense to release

01:30:44   max at

01:30:46   WDC but if they don't have any max, maybe they'll release iPads instead. Yeah, I don't know that they care about holding hardware for

01:30:53   WWDC they have because you know, they it's always there's always plenty of software to talk about right

01:30:59   Yeah, but they're not gonna have they always like to have something and they're not gonna

01:31:03   have

01:31:04   There an event for a Mac

01:31:06   No, I don't think so

01:31:08   But if they could right do it combination with the iPad and make it all about work

01:31:12   You know because I've had pros for work and Mac is for work. I

01:31:15   March

01:31:18   timeframe makes perfect sense to me

01:31:21   If not, then dub DC. Yeah, because the other thing too the the big iPad Pro is

01:31:27   You know lacking the true tone display

01:31:31   right

01:31:33   There's a couple of things, you know, it's it even if they you know, who knows maybe they'll come up

01:31:38   they all have surprising new things to announce, but even just the obvious things, it seems like

01:31:42   it's due for an update. I love True Tone. I wish True Tone was on my phone. That's the one thing,

01:31:49   I've said this before, and Schiller even said it when he announced it last year, that once you get

01:31:53   used to it, you can't go back, and it made me think it was coming to the phone, because I didn't think

01:31:57   Schiller would say that if he didn't know it wasn't coming to the phone, and then it didn't come to the

01:32:00   phone. And it really, it's the one thing that annoys me about using my iPad is, I have the 9.7

01:32:07   inch pro and it annoys me because then after I've like read email on it or used it for you know like

01:32:13   45 minutes I go and look at my phone and if it's like nighttime it looks terrible yeah yeah I I

01:32:20   want true tone on everything it looks it makes it makes your phone look terrible yeah it's just so

01:32:27   good yeah because you don't see it you just don't notice you don't note it's it's a totally it it

01:32:33   plays with your head. It's like, yeah, you realize there's, I know that they're shifting the colors,

01:32:38   and I'm so sensitive to that. Like every time I see somebody who uses night mode on their phone

01:32:42   or whatever it's called, the thing that makes your phone yellow, I can't believe it. I believe,

01:32:47   I know there's lots of people who love that feature, but it sickens me because it just

01:32:51   looks like the phone is, you know, covered in urine or something. Well, it's supposed to put

01:32:56   put you to sleep or something, or make you not so awake.

01:33:00   So I don't know.

01:33:03   - So anyway, I think there'll be a March event,

01:33:05   but there's no rumors as such.

01:33:07   And I don't know if that's sort of, in some ways,

01:33:12   I really do think that if you take a step back and look,

01:33:16   I do think that, you remember a couple years ago

01:33:18   when Tim Cook said they're doubling down on secrecy?

01:33:20   - Yeah.

01:33:21   - I think in some ways they have.

01:33:22   I think that in some ways, Apple has gotten better

01:33:25   at keeping some things secret.

01:33:27   And that the only place where leaks come out of anymore

01:33:31   is the supply chain,

01:33:31   and it's sort of outside Apple's control.

01:33:34   - Yeah, but then look at some of the stories

01:33:36   that Germin does,

01:33:38   and those aren't coming out of the supply chains,

01:33:40   you know, like that Mac one.

01:33:41   - Yeah, but that, I have to publish my,

01:33:44   I have in the works,

01:33:45   I think I've even told Renee about it,

01:33:47   and Renee and I talked back in 2016, my last episode.

01:33:51   I've got a response to that,

01:33:53   and it's just taken a long time

01:33:54   because it's, I don't know why,

01:33:57   but, 'cause I wanna be careful.

01:33:59   But I really think that the more you look

01:34:03   at that story from Germin, the less there is to it,

01:34:06   other than the things that we know,

01:34:08   which are the obvious, that the iMac

01:34:10   didn't get updated in 2016,

01:34:12   the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in three years,

01:34:13   the Mac Mini hasn't been updated in three years,

01:34:15   and the MacBook Pros were long in the tooth

01:34:20   when they were just updated.

01:34:21   But I also actually think the more you look at it,

01:34:23   There's nothing else in his story.

01:34:25   There's nothing factual.

01:34:27   And he says some things that are ridiculous.

01:34:29   He has this story about how they had two versions of,

01:34:33   I forget which product,

01:34:34   but there were two versions in development,

01:34:37   I think of the original, the MacBook,

01:34:39   the super thin MacBook.

01:34:41   Two versions in development,

01:34:42   and then they decided to go with this one.

01:34:44   And it somehow presented as a sign of executive indecision

01:34:49   at Apple and a lack of leadership on the Mac

01:34:52   that they did two designs and then choose one.

01:34:55   That's how Apple works.

01:34:57   I honestly, it's like, I've never heard of a product

01:35:01   at Apple that didn't have multiple versions.

01:35:02   In fact, the fact that there were only two

01:35:04   is the most surprising part of it.

01:35:05   Usually they do more.

01:35:07   And on the software side, they do like 10.

01:35:09   Like everything, every new product at Apple

01:35:11   usually has like 10 mockups of how the interface should look

01:35:15   and the designers are, it's not like do one

01:35:18   that's the real one and then as busy work,

01:35:21   make nine inconsequential changes,

01:35:26   knowing that you go to the meeting

01:35:27   and they're gonna pick the one.

01:35:29   Like if you show up like that,

01:35:30   you're on your way to get fired at Apple.

01:35:32   Like you're attracted to have 10 mockups.

01:35:35   All of them might be the one that is,

01:35:37   all right, choose number eight,

01:35:39   but give us 10 more based on number eight for next week, go.

01:35:42   That's how Apple works.

01:35:45   They do, of course they have a plan B hardware.

01:35:48   And with the MacBook, according to Germin's story,

01:35:51   they went with the one that was the more radical design.

01:35:54   It's a sign that Apple is peddled to the metal

01:35:57   on being aggressive about what they can do,

01:36:00   engineering-wise, with the Mac, as opposed to being lazy.

01:36:03   - Yeah, they're not afraid to go off

01:36:06   on a left field somewhere with any of their products.

01:36:11   - And another point that Germin had in his story

01:36:13   on Bloomberg was something to the effect of,

01:36:16   that there was something with the batteries

01:36:17   in the new Mac Pros that they were gonna go with a,

01:36:22   this is an interesting thing if it's true

01:36:27   because according to Germin, they tried to have

01:36:29   a bunch of smaller batteries that fill up

01:36:32   more of the space in the device

01:36:35   and failed some kind of test.

01:36:38   So they had to go with a more traditional

01:36:40   single rectangular battery that, you know.

01:36:44   I don't think it would have--

01:36:47   the incremental improvement of having a sort of stair-step

01:36:52   battery design that fills more of the crevices

01:36:55   isn't going to radically double the battery life.

01:36:58   That's a way to get 5% to 10% more battery life out

01:37:01   of a device.

01:37:03   It's interesting that if it's true that they couldn't pull

01:37:07   that off for the MacBook Pro, because that's

01:37:10   the actual design that they showed,

01:37:11   that's what they're doing with the Macbooks.

01:37:13   Remember that part of the product video for the Macbooks,

01:37:18   I think it was like Dan Ricci that was describing how they do that.

01:37:23   But anyway, the gist of Germin's story with this battery thing was that they went with this simpler battery

01:37:29   that maybe, presumably Germin didn't have numbers, but I would guess maybe gets like 10% less battery life than the other design.

01:37:36   They went with it so that they could ship it now.

01:37:39   Because otherwise, if they had waited until they could pull

01:37:43   the other design off, here we would be in January 2017

01:37:46   and we still wouldn't have new MacBook Pros.

01:37:48   And then this whole discussion that we're having

01:37:50   about the languishing hardware, we'd also be talking about,

01:37:54   well, the MacBook Pro hasn't been updated in three years

01:37:56   or whatever, you know what I mean?

01:37:58   Like, you can't have it both ways.

01:38:00   They have to ship eventually,

01:38:02   and there's always room for improvement.

01:38:04   And if there's no room for improvement, then who cares?

01:38:06   that right then it's fine if it's if there's no way you know if they've if

01:38:09   they've developed the perfect MacBook Pro that never needs an update then what

01:38:13   are we talking about right it did you know so anyway I I don't get it I don't

01:38:20   either what else I lost my train of thought where we going 2017 what's

01:38:31   happening oh with the rumors we were talking about the Tim Cook and doubling

01:38:37   down on secrecy and if they have a March event coming nobody knows because

01:38:41   they've kept their mouth shut I don't know and it could it could be I don't

01:38:44   know maybe there's rumors of updated iPads that I just haven't seen but I

01:38:47   haven't seen them I didn't see them but I think they're do and it would be a

01:38:51   good time to release new IMAX I think.

01:38:58   We kind of set the expectations though don't we? When we say, well it's been a

01:39:06   year, it's time. They need to update.

01:39:11   Yeah. Maybe they don't. Yeah I think they do eventually. I think the

01:39:16   iPad is still... there's too much to be gained. The A10 is just so much better

01:39:21   than the A9. A9 is great and the current iPad Pros are great, but it's like one of the most amazing

01:39:26   stories in technology the last few years is the A series processors that Apple's turning out. It's

01:39:34   like a return to the early years of the PC industry where every year you're getting these

01:39:41   incredible Moore's law. I mean, they keep showing the graphs at the iPhone events of the CPU and

01:39:47   GPU performance year over year. And it's like a hockey stick curve. It's getting more and more

01:39:54   amazing, whereas you would think it would be more incremental because that's what it's like on the

01:39:58   desktop size, right? The new MacBook Pros performance-wise, they're not... Nobody's

01:40:03   bragging about how much faster the new MacBook Pros are than the previous ones because being

01:40:07   faster is no longer really... That's not really where PCs are improving. Yeah. But they could

01:40:13   do that for sure with the iPad just by going from the A9 to the A10.

01:40:17   And how important is speed on an iPad Pro in comparison to, say, usability?

01:40:28   I mean, there you're talking more the UI and UX as opposed to the actual speed of the device itself.

01:40:37   I don't know, you could say the same thing about the phone too though, right? I don't know. I think

01:40:42   that it is important. I think just in terms of, in some ways, I think just in terms of

01:40:50   it improves battery life, right? Like, that the faster that CPU can be done doing anything,

01:40:55   the less the CPU is using the battery. I think it's a big part of it. I guess there are rumors.

01:41:03   I did see rumors. I do remember this before, you know, just to show that I'm not totally

01:41:08   out of touch of iPad rumors, that there's rumors from the supply chain that there's

01:41:11   going to be a third iPad size. Have you seen that? No, it's it's like in between 9.7. It's like an

01:41:20   11 inch iPad. I don't I doesn't make any sense to me. Right. Frankly, it seems weird. I don't see

01:41:27   why it doesn't make any sense to me that that they would make an iPad in between those two sizes.

01:41:32   But we shall see. I don't get that. I think if it's true, it would probably be something to the

01:41:41   the effect of that the nine, you know, that the older screen sizes are being moved down

01:41:45   the product line to the mid range and that the new size is the new like top of the line

01:41:49   iPad.

01:41:50   Here, I'll send you a link.

01:41:52   I'll send you right here.

01:41:54   Apple planning thicker, bezel free 10.9 inch iPad Pro with 9.7 inch footprint and no home

01:42:01   button.

01:42:02   So in other words, the idea would be it would be like physically the device would be the

01:42:06   the size of the current 9.7 inch iPad Pro,

01:42:10   but the display would be bigger

01:42:12   because they're gonna get rid of the bezels surrounding it.

01:42:15   Let me take a break,

01:42:19   since this seems like a break in the action here,

01:42:21   and thank our third and final sponsor,

01:42:23   long time friend of the show, Squarespace.

01:42:26   This, Squarespace, enter the code talk show at checkout

01:42:29   at squarespace.com, guess what?

01:42:31   You'll save 10% on anything.

01:42:32   So you could buy like a whole year of service,

01:42:34   Save 10%, talk show.

01:42:36   That's the code.

01:42:38   Look, it's a new year.

01:42:39   Maybe you've got a new project coming up, needs a website.

01:42:42   Make it at Squarespace.

01:42:44   Sites look professionally designed,

01:42:46   regardless of your skill level.

01:42:47   No coding required.

01:42:48   They have an intuitive, easy to use tools

01:42:50   to set your template, to customize the template,

01:42:53   to drag stuff around, drag and drop interface

01:42:56   to design your own website.

01:42:58   No coding required.

01:43:00   But if you want to code, if you're a nerd,

01:43:01   and there's a very high chance of that,

01:43:02   If you're listening to a show like this, guess what?

01:43:04   You can dig right in and put your own JavaScript in,

01:43:07   update the template, do whatever you want.

01:43:09   What a great service.

01:43:12   If you need a website, you should go to squarespace.com.

01:43:16   You get a free domain if you sign up for a year or more.

01:43:20   Domain name registration, custom templates,

01:43:24   professional design, very solid hosting

01:43:28   in terms of like, what if during Fireball,

01:43:31   links to your site at Squarespace is going to stay up.

01:43:33   Yes, it's going to stay up.

01:43:34   It's great, great service.

01:43:37   Just remember that code, talk show,

01:43:39   and you get 10% off your first purchase.

01:43:41   That's it, Squarespace.

01:43:42   Great cause.

01:43:45   - Agreed.

01:43:47   - Let me see what else I have here in my notes.

01:43:49   How about the Apple New York Times in China?

01:43:52   News came out two days ago that Apple has pulled

01:43:58   the New York Times apps from the app store

01:44:01   in mainland, in the People's Republic of China.

01:44:04   And I wrote about it and I got, you know,

01:44:09   I got a whole bunch of shit, but.

01:44:10   (laughing)

01:44:13   Well, my take is that their headline is

01:44:16   Apple removes New York Times apps from its store in China.

01:44:19   That's what the New York Times said.

01:44:20   I think a more accurate headline would be

01:44:21   something along the lines of China compels Apple

01:44:23   to remove New York Times apps from its store in China.

01:44:26   'cause it doesn't sound to me like Apple had any choice.

01:44:28   I mean, other than to actually get enough pissing match

01:44:32   with the People's Republic of China,

01:44:34   which would surely result in them pulling the plug

01:44:36   on the App Store, right?

01:44:37   - Right, right.

01:44:38   - I don't understand the people who think you have a choice.

01:44:40   I mean, this is the problem with authoritarian regimes

01:44:45   in a place like China, where they have no freedom

01:44:47   of the press or anything like that.

01:44:49   It's not like here, it's not like, you know,

01:44:50   and they're like, well, Apple is willing to fight the FBI

01:44:53   on unlocking an iPhone, why--

01:44:54   - It's different.

01:44:55   Right, you can fight the FBI here because it's a free country and you can go to court

01:44:59   and argue with the FBI in court.

01:45:03   You can't go to court with the People's Republic of China and fight to keep the New

01:45:07   York Times app in the store.

01:45:08   When China comes to you and says, "You've got to take this out of the store," you've

01:45:11   got to take it out of the store.

01:45:14   So I don't understand what people want Apple to do other than pull out of China.

01:45:23   If you want to be, what's the word?

01:45:26   It certainly wouldn't make any business sense to do it,

01:45:32   but if you think that in a moral regard,

01:45:34   Apple should simply stop doing business in China,

01:45:37   I mean, that's a reasonable take,

01:45:38   and I can listen to the argument,

01:45:39   but it's, Tim Cook's not gonna do it.

01:45:42   I don't understand what the argument is

01:45:45   that Apple could still have an app store in China

01:45:48   and sell their products in China,

01:45:50   and not comply with the Chinese government

01:45:55   when they say you've gotta remove

01:45:56   the New York Times apps from the app store.

01:45:58   - Is it unfortunate that they have

01:46:01   that much control over Apple?

01:46:03   Yeah, of course.

01:46:05   - Right, and of over a billion people, yeah.

01:46:08   Wouldn't it be one of the greatest things

01:46:10   that could happen in the world

01:46:10   would be for the Chinese government to open up

01:46:12   and support things similar to our Bill of Rights?

01:46:15   And that'd be great, but that's not the way the world is.

01:46:20   - No.

01:46:21   - So Apple is in a very tough position.

01:46:23   Like you said, there was no choice.

01:46:28   - Right, and I think Apple knows that it looks bad.

01:46:29   I don't think Apple is like,

01:46:30   "Okay, dokey, we'll do whatever you want."

01:46:32   And they don't care.

01:46:34   I think Apple cares deeply about it

01:46:36   and wishes that the Chinese government didn't do this.

01:46:41   But the other thing that's interesting to me,

01:46:42   and I think it's sort of downplayed

01:46:44   in most of the stories about it,

01:46:45   is that the New York Times website

01:46:46   has been blocked in China since 2012.

01:46:48   So the existence of the New York Times apps,

01:46:51   and obviously probably most people,

01:46:54   surely most people in China don't have iPhones

01:46:56   because they're so expensive.

01:46:57   And the average income in China is very low,

01:47:02   but it's obviously a big part of Apple's market.

01:47:05   They're selling more and more of them,

01:47:07   more and more of their products in China every year.

01:47:08   And for the people who can't afford it,

01:47:11   the App Store gave them access to the New York Times

01:47:13   that they couldn't get through the internet

01:47:16   or through the web.

01:47:17   I shouldn't say internet,

01:47:18   since obviously it's coming down through the internet.

01:47:21   - Well,

01:47:23   when all this FBI stuff was going on,

01:47:29   didn't Apple say that China wanted a version

01:47:32   of their operating system as well, and Apple said no?

01:47:34   - I think so.

01:47:35   I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for that.

01:47:38   I mean, 'cause I think that's the sort of thing

01:47:40   that Apple really would, if push came to a certain shove,

01:47:42   would get out of China over.

01:47:44   If China said, "You have to give us the source code to iOS

01:47:47   or we won't allow you to sell your iPhones in China.

01:47:50   I think Apple would, I really do think that Apple would say,

01:47:53   all right, we can't sell iPhones in China.

01:47:55   And we'll take the hit on sales,

01:47:57   we'll take the hit on the stock,

01:47:58   but there's no way that they're gonna give up

01:48:00   the source code to iOS to anybody,

01:48:02   let alone the Chinese government.

01:48:05   - So, you know, Apple will make a stand,

01:48:08   but that would be a stand on their own software,

01:48:16   not an app.

01:48:18   So, they didn't have a choice.

01:48:22   - It sucks, it's terrible.

01:48:23   I feel bad for them, but I feel worse

01:48:26   for the people in China.

01:48:27   I mean, the problem is the Chinese government, not Apple.

01:48:31   - Right, right.

01:48:33   - I probably just got the talk show banned.

01:48:35   - Well, there you go.

01:48:36   Yeah, you're done.

01:48:38   You've been banned at Apple too, so, yeah, done.

01:48:42   - Derek Farval is now banned in China.

01:48:44   I wonder if it's banned, I don't know.

01:48:46   - I don't know.

01:48:47   - I have no idea.

01:48:48   What else?

01:48:51   I've got this on my list.

01:48:52   And I know you're still wearing your Apple Watch, right?

01:48:54   - I am.

01:48:55   - Because you have written extensively

01:48:57   that the fitness features on Apple Watch,

01:49:00   long story short, have led you to,

01:49:02   you lost a lot of weight

01:49:03   and you're exercising a lot more regularly.

01:49:06   It's like right out of an Apple commercial.

01:49:09   - Yeah.

01:49:10   - Except I don't think they're gonna put someone

01:49:11   that looks like you in an Apple commercial.

01:49:13   - I don't think so.

01:49:14   They should.

01:49:15   I'm really pretty.

01:49:17   - Apple sent me, I'm wearing it right now,

01:49:20   they sent me the Nike Plus Apple Watch.

01:49:24   - Oh yeah.

01:49:25   - I think it's, honest to God,

01:49:27   I think it's the best Apple Watch.

01:49:28   'Cause they, when the new Apple Watches first came out,

01:49:33   the review unit I had was the regular stainless steel one.

01:49:38   - Yeah, yeah.

01:49:39   - I think that the aluminum one is better.

01:49:41   Honest to God, I really do.

01:49:43   I've always suspected this and I really, you know,

01:49:47   I just like it better.

01:49:48   It feels to me like the Digital Crown spins better.

01:49:50   I think the Taptic engine feels slightly better.

01:49:54   I think that the steel is harder for the Taptics

01:49:56   to get through than the aluminum.

01:49:57   I don't think it's a huge difference,

01:49:58   but I think it's a subtle difference.

01:50:01   I think it's a great, great product.

01:50:04   The rumor that came out last week, I linked to this,

01:50:06   was that one rumor came out about the next Apple Watch,

01:50:10   which was that the company that's manufacturing it

01:50:12   saying that their primary mission from Apple is to significantly increase battery life.

01:50:18   I don't have a problem with battery life.

01:50:20   I have a few thoughts on that. I think the Series 2 watch gets so much better at battery

01:50:28   life than the Series 1. In my review of it, I think I missed just how much better it is.

01:50:35   I don't know if it's because watchOS 3.1 made it better, because it seems like watchOS 3.1

01:50:40   was a tremendous bug fix release

01:50:43   for what was already a great release.

01:50:45   WatchOS 3.0 was a great release feature-wise

01:50:50   and interface-wise, but 3.1 seems to have really fixed

01:50:55   a lot of little things like every once in a while

01:51:00   did you ever have when your Apple Watch,

01:51:01   it's right there next to your iPhone,

01:51:03   but it says it doesn't see your iPhone.

01:51:05   You get that little red, the little red,

01:51:07   I don't see the iPhone, and then a minute later

01:51:08   it goes away and it's fine.

01:51:10   I never see that anymore. Like little things like that, like,

01:51:13   like being connected to what you think it's connected to or, or the, the way,

01:51:18   this, the way that unlocks your iMac now, it never like doesn't see it.

01:51:21   It's always there. Um, I,

01:51:25   I don't know. I just think that the battery life I'm getting on this is

01:51:29   tremendous. I'm getting at least two days of battery life,

01:51:32   sometimes even more like where I can wear the watch to sleep and wake up in the

01:51:36   morning. And it's still like, after starting the day before at a hundred percent,

01:51:38   It's still at like 60%

01:51:40   See, I I just I'm in the habit of I wear my watch all day long never take it off. I

01:51:48   When I get a bed, I put it in the I have one of those little

01:51:52   Stand

01:51:54   Chargers, you know from Apple where the thing pops up from the middle

01:51:58   Yeah, I put it on there as soon as I get up in the morning

01:52:01   I put it on my wrist and I go so my habit is to just

01:52:05   Leave it

01:52:07   Charging all night and put it on in the day and it never runs out on me. So

01:52:12   And I use it a lot. I actually use the Apple watch a lot. So, you know, it's not that it's just sitting

01:52:20   Idol all day long

01:52:23   I'm doing the the fitness stuff on it. I

01:52:26   always check my

01:52:29   My messages on it, you know when alerts come in and things just to see what's going on

01:52:36   So I yeah, I use it

01:52:38   Here's the report. This is from

01:52:41   Chinese language economic daily news claimed that the next iteration of the wearable device will be manufactured by Taiwan based Quanta

01:52:50   Which is already the company that's making the first and second generation watches for Apple

01:52:55   So it sounds like they're changing and that citing market watchers and knowledge of Qantas plans

01:53:00   The paper said improving battery life is the manufacturers quote main task

01:53:05   But beside general performance improvements the devices other harder would not see much change. That's the report

01:53:12   Here's one thing I wrote is that I I would love to see it and always on display. I

01:53:17   it bothers me always has as a longtime watch where that

01:53:22   That sometimes I look at the watch and instead of seeing the time I see the it's just black

01:53:27   But I will add as somebody who's annoyed by that and still wears non Apple watches

01:53:34   occasionally, not even occasionally,

01:53:36   but like when I'd like my mechanical watches.

01:53:39   I think that the wrist detection

01:53:44   has gotten better than ever.

01:53:45   I think that they've continued to,

01:53:47   I think it's always been pretty good,

01:53:48   but I think it's gotten even better

01:53:49   where there are fewer and fewer times

01:53:50   where if I look at the watch, the face isn't on,

01:53:53   but I'd still like to see an always-on display.

01:53:56   That would take more power

01:53:58   and possibly a different display technology

01:54:01   to prevent burn-in.

01:54:03   That was my idea for why they-- other than--

01:54:08   don't think about it as going between charges.

01:54:10   Think about what could the watch do with the same charge

01:54:14   it every day or charge it every other day span,

01:54:16   but what could it do with more battery life?

01:54:19   The other things-- and I didn't even think of these,

01:54:21   but it's obvious.

01:54:23   People chimed in on Twitter.

01:54:25   What if they added LTE networking and/or GPS?

01:54:32   Well, I think the watch is eventually going to get, I don't know, see the thing about LTE is that you've got to pay, right?

01:54:39   It's like there's no way, even like look at the iPad, what's it cost like 25 bucks a month to get?

01:54:44   What's the cheapest plan you can get with with an iPad?

01:54:46   Yeah, well you get a a rolling plan isn't it? That is not the cheapest where it's,

01:54:54   you know, you pay five dollars but then you add stuff like that.

01:54:59   So if they add LTE, I mean, obviously, in terms of feature,

01:55:02   that'd be great in some ways where you could just go out

01:55:04   with a watch and you'd still get text messages

01:55:06   and stuff like that.

01:55:07   I mean, that'd be a tremendous feature,

01:55:09   but I don't know if that's a top priority

01:55:14   just because you have to pay for it.

01:55:16   - Yeah, I don't think that's a priority for me.

01:55:18   - GPS could be though, because they have,

01:55:21   they've really, I feel like one of the things

01:55:23   that they really figured out in between the original

01:55:25   and the Series 2 hardware and watchOS 3

01:55:30   is that the fitness stuff is--

01:55:32   it was always one of the tent pole features,

01:55:34   but I think that they've really figured out

01:55:36   that this is why people buy the watches, right?

01:55:38   Yeah.

01:55:39   People want notifications, and people want fitness tracking.

01:55:43   And the fitness tracking GPS is a huge reason--

01:55:45   that's a huge, huge reason why people--

01:55:47   it's probably the only reason why people would still

01:55:49   buy stuff from Garmin, right?

01:55:51   I mean, if it's not for GPS, I don't

01:55:53   know why you would buy that.

01:55:55   So in terms of just the competitive landscape,

01:55:58   what are the reasons somebody would buy something other than,

01:56:00   if they're gonna put something on their wrist for fitness,

01:56:03   right, just I'm gonna get a gadget,

01:56:05   it's gonna go on my wrist,

01:56:06   it's gonna help me track my fitness,

01:56:09   what are the reasons you would not,

01:56:10   you would buy something other than Apple Watch?

01:56:12   GPS is one of them.

01:56:13   But on the other hand, you know,

01:56:16   do you look at the ones with Garmin that are GPS,

01:56:18   they're big, they're very large.

01:56:21   - Yeah, I don't know how important that is to me though.

01:56:25   - It may not be important to you.

01:56:26   I don't think it would be important to me at all

01:56:28   'cause I don't go anywhere.

01:56:30   You know, and I do jog, but I jog the same path every day.

01:56:34   So I don't need to see, I don't need, you know,

01:56:36   I don't need to see a map of where I go.

01:56:38   Like, I'm boring, I just know exactly the path that I take.

01:56:43   I can tell you exactly, you know,

01:56:44   you can look at my watch and see the runs

01:56:46   and I can tell you exactly where I went

01:56:48   'cause I just take the same path.

01:56:50   But for some people it's huge. I know some friends who are serious about their bicycling, and GPS is fundamental to their workouts.

01:57:02   They want to know exactly the trail they took on a bike ride.

01:57:07   Well, the Apple Watch, the Series 2 does have GPS tracking in it.

01:57:14   Not on its own though, right? Does it?

01:57:17   Yeah, on its own.

01:57:18   It does?

01:57:19   Yeah.

01:57:20   I didn't know it had GPS.

01:57:22   Are you serious?

01:57:23   Yeah.

01:57:24   No, it goes through the phone, right?

01:57:26   No, no, no.

01:57:27   You don't need the phone anymore.

01:57:28   Really?

01:57:29   Yeah.

01:57:30   Well, then, I didn't know that.

01:57:33   Or at least I didn't remember it.

01:57:35   For tracking, so that you can, it will track where you walk, and it makes it better, you

01:57:43   know, you've walked the speed and all that kind of stuff.

01:57:46   Huh.

01:57:47   Wow, how about that?

01:57:48   I I didn't know that I don't know if it'll do

01:57:52   Like maps and stuff like that. See that's what I'm talking about. I don't think I don't think that's what I'm talking about

01:57:58   I'm talking about like it always knows where you are

01:58:00   it's a GPS tracking so if I go out to do a workout and

01:58:04   I

01:58:07   Start a workout it knows where I am as

01:58:10   I'm walking around and and when I get home and it sinks to my phone

01:58:16   It actually puts a little map in in the activity. Yeah, I'm looking at the website built-in GPS

01:58:23   Well where I went

01:58:25   This is a real test for me Jim

01:58:26   Do I let this stand where I talked for two minutes about how the watch could add GPS or do I edit it out?

01:58:31   No, I

01:58:33   Think we should let it stay up. All right, let it stand

01:58:36   I think we should let it stand and people can know that I'm a podcaster with integrity. Yeah built-in GPS

01:58:42   I forgot. I either didn't know it, wasn't paying attention, or completely forgot that the watch

01:58:46   already has built-in GPS. So LTE would obviously be the addition. Don't tell me it already has LTE.

01:58:52   No, it does not. See, I think in order to do, maybe in order to do the type of GPS that you're

01:59:00   talking about, it would need LTE. Right? No, I don't think so. I'm talking about, I think it's

01:59:09   It's got it must already have what I'm what I was talking about. Okay

01:59:12   So I so the the thing that that I did with my watch when I got the series 2 I

01:59:20   would always take my phone with me and

01:59:22   Then it would have my my watch would have GPS but with Apple

01:59:27   Watch series 2 I didn't need to take the phone with me anymore and I had the wireless headphones

01:59:33   I put a music list on my watch so I could listen to music wirelessly from my watch and

01:59:39   and have it track where I was walking.

01:59:42   And when I got back, it would sync with my phone

01:59:45   and everything would be there.

01:59:47   - Yeah.

01:59:47   - So that part is kind of cool.

01:59:51   - The single thing that they could do for Apple Watch

01:59:53   that would make me happier would be to make it easier

01:59:58   to, easier to put music on the watch

02:00:03   and like not make me have to do it in advance.

02:00:05   And to make it easier,

02:00:07   specifically for third-party developers to load content on the watch.

02:00:12   Because what I want in particular is I want, I use over Marco Arman's Overcast

02:00:16   to listen to podcasts. And most of what I do, and always when I go for a jog,

02:00:21   always, almost always, I listen to podcasts.

02:00:23   I would love to do it and be able to leave my phone at home and not have to jump

02:00:28   through like 10 minutes of hoops of syncing this to that. Just have it,

02:00:32   just trust that automatically the watch already has like

02:00:36   You know the two most recent episodes of all the podcasts I subscribe to already on it

02:00:43   so I can just go out with air pods and the watch and just play podcasts I

02:00:47   Would love that that would be good because going with the phone. It's you know it's just it's it's there's no good

02:00:54   There's no good place to put a phone if you're going out for a run

02:00:56   It's just no just and I I usually jog in my speedos so that makes it even more difficult

02:01:01   [laughter]

02:01:06   There now I've abandoned Chinatown.

02:01:09   Anything else that you want to talk about? Anything else in the news that's on your mind, Jim?

02:01:13   No, no, it's been a pretty good

02:01:17   a pretty good end of year. I think it was pretty calm except for the Mac stuff.

02:01:21   You know, well, what about

02:01:25   what about this new, the iPhone rumors about, you know, edge to edge

02:01:29   class. What do you think about that? The rumors don't make any sense to me. I've heard that they're

02:01:35   working on an edge-to-edge iPhone. I heard that a while ago, and it's, I think, no surprise. I think

02:01:40   it, you know, there's a lot of, it makes a lot of sense. I think the fact that they've gotten rid of

02:01:44   the physical home button, it makes logical sense that they're moving in that direction, that that

02:01:49   could be one reason that they did that. Side note, by the way, the other day my iPhone ran out before

02:01:58   the end of the day of battery for the first time. I think it might be the first time that

02:02:03   happened to me since I've had the iPhone 7. I don't know what I've, I guess I was using

02:02:07   it all day. Uh, and it ran out and it didn't run out while I was using it. It was like

02:02:13   on my desk and I was like ready to call it a night. Uh, I was doing something at my computer

02:02:17   really late at night and I picked it up and I went to press the home button and it didn't

02:02:21   move because it was dead and it felt gross. It was almost like I wanted to drop it. Like

02:02:26   I picked up a dead mouse or something.

02:02:32   It felt-- because I expected it to turn on.

02:02:35   I had no reason to think that the battery was dead.

02:02:37   And the fact that the button didn't move,

02:02:39   it didn't just feel wrong.

02:02:41   It felt gross.

02:02:42   Anyway, so anyway, I could see them

02:02:44   moving to an edge-to-edge design.

02:02:46   But the specific rumors don't make any sense to me,

02:02:48   because the specific rumors are that they've

02:02:50   got new phones in development at the current sizes, 4.7

02:02:54   and 5.5 inch displays.

02:02:56   Yeah.

02:02:57   And a new one that's 5.8 inches diagonally.

02:03:01   And it makes no sense to me that they would come out

02:03:03   with all of those.

02:03:04   Like, I could see that they would come out

02:03:07   with a phone with a 5.8 inch diagonal display

02:03:10   in a bezel-less case or a much smaller bezel case

02:03:15   so that the physical device isn't much bigger, right?

02:03:18   Like, and some people with rulers,

02:03:19   you can figure out that if they really

02:03:22   do get rid of the forehead and chin bezels,

02:03:25   that a 5.8 inch display wouldn't really even be

02:03:28   a plus sized phone, it would be slightly bigger

02:03:31   than the regular iPhone 7.

02:03:32   It would be a little bit wider, but mostly the same height.

02:03:36   So in terms of overall size, it might be very similar.

02:03:39   That going from 4.7 to 5.8 really is just the diagonal

02:03:43   of those bezels.

02:03:44   So I could see that, but I don't see why in the world

02:03:47   would they come out with new phones with the old sizes.

02:03:49   It doesn't make any sense to me

02:03:50   that they'd come out with all of them.

02:03:51   So the only way that the rumors make any sense to me

02:03:55   is if this involves Apple still being in a plan A, plan B

02:04:01   scenario, where plan A would be to go with this radical new

02:04:06   edge-to-edge design.

02:04:08   And plan B would be if we feel like when it gets to the point

02:04:12   where we have to say, go, and put this stuff into production,

02:04:16   if we don't think we're ready to make a September ship date,

02:04:20   we're going to have to go with plan B, which

02:04:22   is to keep the same sizes and come out

02:04:23   with just the 7S and 7S Plus next year.

02:04:26   But I don't see why they would do both.

02:04:29   There's, it doesn't make any sense to me

02:04:30   that they would come out with, for lack of a better word,

02:04:33   let's just call it the iPhone 8

02:04:34   with a radical edge-to-edge design,

02:04:37   come out with that and come out with the 7S Plus,

02:04:40   it doesn't make any sense, or 7S, you know,

02:04:42   7S and 7S Plus, it doesn't make any sense.

02:04:45   - That's an awful big gamble, though.

02:04:47   - It's a huge gamble.

02:04:48   But that's the only way it makes sense to me.

02:04:51   I don't see how they, why they would come out

02:04:53   the third size. I think if they come out with a new edge to edge display that

02:04:59   this year then the 7 and 7 plus just stay as exactly as they are and

02:05:06   move to the middle price points. I don't see why they would come out with new

02:05:11   phones that are of a radical design and come out with new phones that have a

02:05:15   same as last year design. Who'd buy those? Nobody. Right. Well, I mean

02:05:21   you're always gonna have the people that that will complain about you know and

02:05:25   I talked about this with a bunch of people on Twitter too and people say

02:05:29   well maybe this new edge to edge one they won't be able to make it in huge

02:05:32   quantities so you know that's why they would do the 7s and 7s + 2 that's good

02:05:38   well we are why would they couple if they can't do it in sufficient

02:05:42   quantities that why release it yeah that would be like the most an Apple like

02:05:46   thing I've ever heard of to admit to have a device that that they make and

02:05:50   and that they can't make enough of on purpose?

02:05:53   It doesn't make any sense. - That's not good.

02:05:56   - Right, and so what, then what?

02:05:57   You'd have what, one million lucky people

02:06:00   who got the ones that come out,

02:06:01   and 50 million people who are like,

02:06:06   "Well, I wanted the cool one,

02:06:07   "but I guess I'll get the one that's not cool,"

02:06:09   and pay $800 for a phone that they didn't really want?

02:06:13   That doesn't make any sense to me.

02:06:14   - That's a doubt.

02:06:15   Right, well.

02:06:19   - It certainly is an interesting rumor though.

02:06:22   It's very similar to the iPad rumor I told you

02:06:26   where there's this third size with no bezels, right?

02:06:30   It's sort of the same thing in both directions,

02:06:33   but I don't know, who knows whether they're ready for it.

02:06:36   - Doesn't make sense to me.

02:06:38   The size part.

02:06:41   But we'll see soon enough I guess.

02:06:45   - Yeah, the other thing that's weird about the rumor to me

02:06:48   is that this new third size, 5.8 inch, would be--

02:06:54   that there's only one, that there's not a corresponding--

02:06:57   that if they come out with a new edge to edge design

02:07:00   and it has this 5.8 inch display that they're talking about,

02:07:03   there's only one size of it.

02:07:05   And that sounds unusual to me.

02:07:07   It seems to me like this two-size thing

02:07:09   is a big part of Apple's--

02:07:12   the appeal of the iPhone lineup.

02:07:16   It doesn't make any sense to me.

02:07:17   What would that make bringing the other two products,

02:07:21   you know, this year's products along,

02:07:25   would that make that make more sense?

02:07:27   - No, it doesn't make any sense to me.

02:07:29   - No, but what if they only released

02:07:30   one size of the edge-to-edge?

02:07:32   - I don't know.

02:07:34   I guess they could, but it doesn't seem to fit

02:07:40   with the pattern of Apple's previous releases.

02:07:42   - No, no, I agree.

02:07:44   - Anyway, at least there's something for us

02:07:47   to write about this year.

02:07:48   (laughing)

02:07:49   - Well, it seems that there's gonna be a few things

02:07:50   to write about for sure.

02:07:52   (laughing)

02:07:54   - Jim, I thank you for your time.

02:07:56   It's always good to have you on the show.

02:07:57   People can get all the Dalrymple they want

02:07:59   at your website, The Loop, which is at loopinsight.com.

02:08:04   On Twitter, I think you're JDalrymple, correct?

02:08:08   - I am, yep.

02:08:09   - And that's where they can get your tweets,

02:08:11   which are always a pleasure.

02:08:15   (laughing)

02:08:17   - Cheerful.

02:08:18   If you wanna get cheered up, follow Jim.

02:08:20   Follow Jim Dyer on Twitter.

02:08:23   It'll cheer you right up.

02:08:25   - Cheer you up, you have no problem at all.