The Talk Show

168: ‘You’ve Got the Nubbin’ With Serenity Caldwell


00:00:00   Oh shit, I'm so stupid.

00:00:02   (laughing)

00:00:04   Oh, it's not that stupid.

00:00:06   But I am starting a new thing where I'm just sharing

00:00:10   an Apple Note with whoever's on the show.

00:00:13   - Mm, okay.

00:00:14   - And then you can just paste, we can paste links in there.

00:00:17   - I like it.

00:00:18   - Right now, all it just says is TTS 168 Serenity Caldwell.

00:00:22   Anyway, the stupid thing is that I was trying to do it

00:00:25   and I'm like, why can I not do this?

00:00:27   I know I've done it already and it's because

00:00:28   I'm staring at a Mac that's still running El Capitan.

00:00:32   - Oh no!

00:00:33   - So I've gotta do it from my phone.

00:00:36   - Ugh, such technology problems.

00:00:40   - Did you get this?

00:00:40   Did you get it? - Yes I did.

00:00:41   - Anyway. - Let's see if it'll open.

00:00:43   - So we're sharing, we are sharing, this is my new thing.

00:00:45   We can't even tell people on the air, it's not a secret,

00:00:47   but I've shared a note from Apple Notes with Serenity

00:00:52   so that we could paste links and maybe I'll remember

00:00:56   to put all the links in the show notes that I say that I put.

00:00:59   Seems like a perfect use of the shared note feature,

00:01:02   but before we started recording,

00:01:04   I spent a minute staring at my screen,

00:01:06   trying to figure out how to do it,

00:01:08   and it was because I'm staring at a machine

00:01:09   that's still running a Mac, running LCAP,

00:01:11   which doesn't have the feature.

00:01:13   - Where is my collaborate button?

00:01:15   Where has it gone to?

00:01:16   - I am, we have so much to talk about,

00:01:19   I don't know how the hell we're gonna do it,

00:01:20   but I'm excited, here's what I'm excited about.

00:01:23   My last show was with Jim Dalrymple,

00:01:25   and everything was still new.

00:01:26   And I feel like, you know, like the phones and the watch,

00:01:29   and I don't think Sierra was out yet.

00:01:31   I like talking about these things more

00:01:35   once I've gotten to know them a little better.

00:01:37   Like I even said on my show the last time,

00:01:39   I found writing a review of the iPhone after five days

00:01:42   to be incredibly stressful, 'cause I don't know what I--

00:01:43   - It's really hard.

00:01:44   - Right, so I'm anxious to hear your thoughts

00:01:47   now that we've starting to settle in with these new devices

00:01:49   and both new operating systems.

00:01:51   But what I was gonna tell you is,

00:01:54   I'm like a reckless, I'm reckless with my iOS devices.

00:01:57   I'll install the first beta of whatever's coming out

00:02:01   as soon as somebody else on Twitter says they installed it

00:02:04   and it didn't blow up.

00:02:06   - Oh yeah, same.

00:02:07   - So my iPhone, my personal iPhone is already running

00:02:10   the developer beta of 10.1 because who cares?

00:02:15   - Is your personal iPhone a seven plus this time around

00:02:17   or just a seven? - No, it's a seven.

00:02:18   I've just switched, I think Saturday I switched

00:02:22   from my Plus review unit to the phone

00:02:26   I ended up buying for myself,

00:02:27   which is jet black regular, so.

00:02:29   But I had to run the beta because I put the beta on the Plus

00:02:35   so I could take portrait mode photos,

00:02:38   and then once you've upgraded that device,

00:02:40   if I wanted to keep carrying forward that backup and restore

00:02:44   so I have all my stuff and don't have to set up

00:02:46   my email accounts and everything again.

00:02:48   So I have to be running the beta here.

00:02:49   but I find iOS betas to be just fine.

00:02:52   - Yeah, they've been remarkably stable.

00:02:54   I think the entire iOS 10 beta release cycle

00:02:57   has been remarkably stable.

00:02:59   I installed two days after WWDC for running the dev beta

00:03:04   and I have not had problems since.

00:03:05   Like little things here and there, little problems, but.

00:03:09   - But on my Macs, I tend to be very conservative.

00:03:12   I don't like running,

00:03:13   I don't run the developer betas over the summer

00:03:15   and I haven't, I've upgraded my MacBook

00:03:19   which I don't really use that much.

00:03:21   Or at least I haven't been

00:03:23   'cause I haven't been traveling lately.

00:03:24   So I did install Sierra on that one,

00:03:27   but I'm not, my iMac at my desk, I'm waiting.

00:03:30   - I am exactly the same.

00:03:32   I did not install Sierra on this iMac

00:03:34   until the day after release,

00:03:36   because our, thankfully, we have a staff at iMore now,

00:03:39   which is really lovely,

00:03:40   and Lori Gill kind of took point

00:03:42   on all of the macOS Sierra coverage,

00:03:44   which meant I didn't have to worry about it.

00:03:46   So I had like seven devices,

00:03:48   Like seven iOS devices running iOS 10 and no Macs in the house running Sierra.

00:03:53   I just typed uptime in the terminal.

00:03:55   So my iMac's been up for 23 days without a restart.

00:03:58   And I find that to be very typical.

00:04:01   Like I just come in here every day and just hit the keyboard to wake it up.

00:04:04   There are features I'm looking forward to.

00:04:06   I can't wait to get the thing where I can log in with my Apple Watch.

00:04:10   Auto unlock, yeah. That's been kind of fun.

00:04:12   I've enjoyed that the last four days.

00:04:14   So I maybe by the next episode I record I will be running Sierra here and it does seem it seemed to me on on my macbook

00:04:21   where I did upgrade to Sierra that it was the

00:04:25   Least inconvenient major version of Mac OS 10 upgrade I've ever done

00:04:32   It seemed to me like almost nothing broke or changed

00:04:36   Yeah, I have had no problems created. I haven't launched an Adobe program yet

00:04:41   So Photoshop still could be completely borked and I wouldn't know it

00:04:44   But I'm pretty sure I haven't heard any complaining from my artist friends.

00:04:48   So I haven't really run into anything major where it's just completely broken or completely a pain.

00:04:52   Yeah, one of the reasons I'm so conservative upgrading a Mac is that I have so many little super nerdy things that I install and set up.

00:04:59   Like I have a bunch of scripts I've written for myself in Perl, and they require Perl modules from the CPAN open source repository.

00:05:08   And you just type some things on the command line and install them.

00:05:11   And every time to my memory, every time I've ever done a major upgrade of Mac OS 10. I've had to reinstall those because pearls considered part of the system.

00:05:20   Oh, yeah, that would make sense.

00:05:23   It's just I accept it. It makes sense to me. But then this time I didn't have to all the stuff I had installed from CPAN was still there.

00:05:30   They finally the you know, the Mac OS engineers listened to you and said, You know what, we're just gonna make the the pearl upgrade process easier this time.

00:05:39   Who's our friend in the background?

00:05:40   - That's Olive, who I'm actually gonna go tell

00:05:43   to quiet down in just a second.

00:05:45   There's a new puppy in the back fence

00:05:47   that she gets really excited about.

00:05:49   - I like having a dog on the show.

00:05:51   - Oh yeah, it gives it a little bit of color.

00:05:53   - People got very mad at me last week.

00:05:55   I said I don't like cats.

00:05:57   - I am an equal opportunity pet lover.

00:06:01   We have two dogs and one cat in this house.

00:06:03   - There we go, that brings balance to the talk show

00:06:06   so people can stop complaining.

00:06:07   And then the problem was that--

00:06:09   - Balance to the forced touch.

00:06:10   - The problem was that Jim Dalrymple agreed with me.

00:06:12   - Oh no.

00:06:14   I'm nothing against dogs.

00:06:15   Dogs are great, but I grew up with cats, all cats,

00:06:18   and then my fiance owns dogs,

00:06:20   so it's been a kind of like a merging of the households.

00:06:23   - Well, there we go.

00:06:24   I think the last time we had a dog barking

00:06:26   in the background of the show was Joanna Stern

00:06:28   when she had her dog was a puppy,

00:06:31   and I think had an accident in the room

00:06:33   while she was on the show.

00:06:34   - Oh no.

00:06:35   - Comic gold.

00:06:36   - Yep, yep.

00:06:37   It's like, okay, let's talk about MacBooks

00:06:40   - Oh, wait, wait.

00:06:42   - I don't know.

00:06:43   So it seems to me like Apple has their upgrade mojo in place

00:06:47   and it just scanning the internets,

00:06:49   it seems like there were relatively few people

00:06:52   who's seemingly on Twitter had any kind of problem

00:06:55   upgrading either to iOS 10 or to Sierra.

00:06:58   - Yeah, and honestly, this is probably

00:07:00   when one of the smoother upgrade cycles

00:07:03   that I've seen on the Twitter webs.

00:07:07   The only thing I've really seen complaints about

00:07:10   the home button. And even those have kind of tapered off after the first couple days, you know,

00:07:14   there were the there were the outrages of like, why doesn't my slide to unlock work and even my

00:07:19   personal trainer when I went to saw her last see her last week, she was she was very outraged at

00:07:24   the idea of of having to change her home her unlock behavior. And then when I saw her the next

00:07:29   week, she's like, Yeah, I've gotten used to it. It's fine.

00:07:32   That's an interesting change because it's one that I've heard that too from, you know, real people.

00:07:37   And I've, what I recall is I think I started running the second developer beta,

00:07:45   maybe the third, because I had like, I was traveling in early July and I didn't want to

00:07:49   take a chance while I was traveling. So as soon as we got home from a trip in July, that's when

00:07:53   I started running the developer betas on my iPhone. And I've at first, like anybody else, I was confused.

00:08:00   It seemed like getting into getting past the lock screen was weird.

00:08:04   And I just thought what I remember thinking was, ah, it's a beta.

00:08:08   I'm sure they'll figure this out by the end of the summer.

00:08:11   And they didn't really, I don't think they actually changed anything.

00:08:13   It's just that eventually I, I, it became the new normal to me.

00:08:17   Yeah, it gets, you get comfortable with it and then you switch back to a device

00:08:21   running iOS nine and you're like, why won't you, what, what I'm

00:08:24   just, I'm trying to unlock you.

00:08:26   Yeah.

00:08:26   And it's just seems normal now.

00:08:29   Although I guess it's, I guess it's,

00:08:32   are there still a lot of people who don't have Touch ID?

00:08:35   - I don't think there are a ton of people

00:08:36   who don't have Touch ID, but the,

00:08:39   I like my personal trainer who I was talking to,

00:08:41   she's like, I've never put a passcode on my iPhone.

00:08:43   And immediately I told her, well,

00:08:45   here are the reasons why you should put a passcode

00:08:47   in Touch ID on your iPhone.

00:08:49   But there are a lot of people who still don't do passcodes

00:08:52   and don't do Touch ID despite having Touch ID-enabled iPhones

00:08:55   which boggles my mind.

00:08:56   It's so easy.

00:08:58   - That would be an interest.

00:08:58   I wonder what that is.

00:08:59   I've always thought, and I do think it's true,

00:09:03   that the original slide to unlock, which Apple bragged about,

00:09:10   it was a big part of the original iPhone presentation.

00:09:14   It was a part of the ads.

00:09:15   It was a part of the brand.

00:09:16   It was actually a big part of their lawsuits with Samsung.

00:09:21   I forget.

00:09:21   I think they sued other people too, right?

00:09:23   And it was held up.

00:09:25   It was like Apple's version of Amazon's one click.

00:09:28   You know, like this is a ridiculous thing

00:09:30   to be able to patent.

00:09:31   No, this is actually genius.

00:09:32   You know, arguments on both sides

00:09:34   should be able to patent an idea that's so simple,

00:09:36   blah, blah, blah.

00:09:37   I really do think though that that feature

00:09:40   was designed for a phone that doesn't have a passcode.

00:09:44   - Oh yeah.

00:09:45   I mean, it was designed in kind of the pre-passcode era

00:09:48   where I don't think until my iPhone 4

00:09:52   that I really ever thought about having passcodes

00:09:54   my devices or thought seriously about what it meant to protect the information that was on my

00:10:00   device. Because the iPhone 3G and 3GS, I feel like all I had on those phones were like Twitter

00:10:06   and the camera app, and I wasn't taking any pictures that were particularly sensitive,

00:10:12   and I wasn't doing a ton of banking on my phone because 3G networks at that point were still slow.

00:10:17   But now, I mean, you know, my 7 Plus, I feel like I can pretty much do my entire job on it.

00:10:23   I don't need a computer for some things.

00:10:28   - No, I think that's definitely true.

00:10:30   - Yeah.

00:10:31   - That's what I hear from so many people.

00:10:33   But I just think we just didn't, I don't know,

00:10:36   the whole industry, both on the company's side,

00:10:40   like Apple's side, as the creator of this device

00:10:44   and this operating system, and on the consumer side,

00:10:46   and on our side as people who write about this stuff,

00:10:50   the last decade has been a real eye-opener

00:10:53   in terms of privacy and security.

00:10:55   Like I think before that, we really only thought

00:10:57   of security as security that goes through bugs.

00:11:00   You know, like, oh, there's an exploit in Windows XP,

00:11:05   and all you have to do is visit this website

00:11:08   and code can get run locally with full privileges

00:11:11   on your computer and you're in trouble.

00:11:13   And that's what we thought of it as.

00:11:15   As opposed to just the privacy aspects of this system,

00:11:19   it doesn't have any bugs, it's working as designed.

00:11:23   But if somebody picks up your phone

00:11:24   and plugs it into iTunes,

00:11:25   they'll just be able to see all your stuff.

00:11:27   - Yeah, yeah, and it's, I mean,

00:11:31   the scary thing about that

00:11:33   is really the social engineering part of it,

00:11:36   where even I think until really,

00:11:40   we got it with Snowden,

00:11:41   and we got it with even Mr. Robot of all things,

00:11:44   alerting people to the idea of like,

00:11:46   yeah, if people know your security questions

00:11:49   a couple of facts about you, they can pretty much take over your life. Like, I remember,

00:11:52   do you remember Matt Honan's piece from a few years ago?

00:11:54   Pete: Yep.

00:11:55   Jodi, yeah, about his password dilemmas and troubles and how basically somebody took over all of his

00:12:00   stuff and like, that kind of stuff is, I think, an eye-opener for, definitely was an eye-opener

00:12:06   for a lot of the tech concerted audience, but it's still, I think, making its way towards the general

00:12:11   public. Where the general public is worried about security and this broad, nebulous idea,

00:12:16   but they don't really think about it on a very discreet,

00:12:19   you know, individual basis.

00:12:20   Like talking to my personal trainer,

00:12:22   if someone picks up, if you go to Africa

00:12:24   and someone picks up your phone,

00:12:26   they could basically steal your identity.

00:12:29   No problem.

00:12:30   - Right, it's true.

00:12:32   - She was going to Africa, it's not just like random.

00:12:35   Picking Africa, picking on Africa.

00:12:37   - And I also think the iPhone, and therefore iOS

00:12:39   in particular, also started on the wrong foot in some ways

00:12:43   because it's in some ways I think Apple had conceived of it as as much as the

00:12:50   successor to the iPod as it was to the Mac and so yes there were some you know

00:12:57   some aspects of whatever you want to call the original the original version

00:13:01   of iOS when I think it didn't even have a name it was called like iPhone OS

00:13:05   iPhone OS yeah and they even had like marketing material that they even called

00:13:09   it OS 10 it was like runs OS 10 you know they didn't know what to call it at

00:13:12   first. But a lot of it was was sort of stripped out by the idea that it was sort of more like an

00:13:19   iPod, which never had any real sort of security, right? You could always just plug an iPod into

00:13:25   another computer and see what was on it.

00:13:27   Well, you had DRM to music for a long time, or you had music, it was one way transfer, right?

00:13:32   The security was really more on the the format of the files you bought from the store than the

00:13:37   device itself. And you know, just wasn't a protected device. I mean, you could really

00:13:43   just plug somebody else's iPhone into your, you know, your Mac and, you know, communicate

00:13:47   over USB. So they've had, you know, obviously come a long way from there to here. And I

00:13:51   do think that the slide to unlock just didn't really fit, you know, touch ID is slide on

00:13:57   the slide to unlock for the modern secure world.

00:14:01   Yeah, it's the, this is the easy way to open your phone after you've put it some level of security.

00:14:08   And especially as they've rolled out touch ID to more places, including like on iOS 10, a little feature that I even noticed today is if you go into say Apple Music and you're signing into your user account,

00:14:20   As long as you have Touch ID enabled for iTunes,

00:14:25   you can now use your fingerprint for that.

00:14:26   You don't even have to enter in your password

00:14:28   in these weird random places of the OS,

00:14:31   which I think was even still a thing in iOS 9,

00:14:34   where there were still some areas

00:14:35   where you had to type out your long complicated password.

00:14:38   And now it's all like,

00:14:39   as long as you're already in the system,

00:14:41   you can authorize just about anything

00:14:43   with a Touch ID fingerprint.

00:14:44   - It does seem like I've had to type my passwords

00:14:47   in fewer times.

00:14:48   And it's one of the little things that it seems like,

00:14:52   it's so annoying that we notice it

00:14:55   when we're getting badgered by it

00:14:56   and we yell at Apple for it,

00:14:58   and then we don't really notice when they fix it.

00:15:00   So we don't get to give them the little pat on the head

00:15:02   and say, "Thank you, Apple."

00:15:04   You know, and the number of times where I used to have to,

00:15:08   I'd just be out and I would just get prompted

00:15:10   for my iCloud password, and it wouldn't even tell me why.

00:15:14   Right?

00:15:15   It's just like a system-- - Oh, I know.

00:15:16   It's just like this random thing.

00:15:17   - Right, but it does seem to me anecdotally,

00:15:19   at least for me personally,

00:15:20   that I don't see that as much as I,

00:15:23   almost never, it's almost never inexplicable.

00:15:25   It's always got like an explanation

00:15:27   and therefore I don't feel bad about it.

00:15:29   So good for Apple on that.

00:15:33   So before we get into the details,

00:15:35   while we're on this subject, let's try to,

00:15:38   I have at least one, but think about the things

00:15:41   that Apple still has a lot of,

00:15:45   Where are they falling short on their upgrade,

00:15:48   when you upgrade devices?

00:15:50   Overall, I think they're getting really good at it.

00:15:52   But I'll give one example. - They are.

00:15:53   - And I know this has gotta be worse for you than me,

00:15:56   'cause I think you have more Apple Watches.

00:15:58   - Yeah, I was gonna say,

00:15:59   does your example involve upgrading to a new Apple Watch?

00:16:02   - Yes, and upgrading to a new Apple Watch is the worst.

00:16:07   - Yeah. - It takes forever,

00:16:09   and if you forget to do it in the right order,

00:16:12   you've gotta start all over from scratch.

00:16:14   You just want to put like a head to the desk kind of a thing.

00:16:20   It's very frustrating, especially as people who are dealing with review units, having

00:16:26   certain Apple watches paired to certain devices and some of them being backups of your old

00:16:30   phone and some of them not being backups of your old phone, and then trying to switch

00:16:35   those watches from one device to another is pretty much impossible unless they're on your

00:16:39   Apple ID and on your specific backup.

00:16:41   - You're basically tied to the phone.

00:16:43   And that's the thing that took me a while

00:16:46   to wrap my head around,

00:16:47   is like if your Apple Watch is not a separate device,

00:16:51   it's your Apple Watch and your iPhone.

00:16:53   And all of the backups get stored basically

00:16:57   as your iPhone backups.

00:16:58   So if you pair an Apple Watch to a brand new iPhone

00:17:01   that you haven't restored from backup,

00:17:03   and then you're like,

00:17:04   "Oh, I wanna switch that Apple Watch to a backed up iPhone,"

00:17:08   you're gonna be in a little bit of trouble.

00:17:10   You're not gonna be very happy.

00:17:12   - I find that the thing that gets me

00:17:15   is the fact that you don't get your watch backed up

00:17:18   until you unpair it from the phone.

00:17:22   And that feels so wrong to me.

00:17:24   And I don't see how any normal person,

00:17:26   no normal person would ever, ever think

00:17:29   that that's how it should be done.

00:17:31   And even if they're told that that's how it's done,

00:17:33   it doesn't look like you're doing the right thing.

00:17:37   Like even if you're just, somebody says,

00:17:40   here's what you do with your new iPhone.

00:17:42   First, unpair your watch from your old phone.

00:17:46   - Well, and the thing is-- - Then back up your old phone.

00:17:48   Then restore your new phone from that backup.

00:17:51   And then your watch, as you knew it, will still be there.

00:17:54   And then you can repair the watch,

00:17:56   and it'll go right back to where it was.

00:17:57   But when you go through those steps,

00:17:59   it doesn't look like you're doing that.

00:18:01   It looks like you're erasing your watch.

00:18:04   - Yeah, and there's no good dialogue from that box.

00:18:08   And it is, I'm pretty sure the watch

00:18:10   does get backed up nightly the same way

00:18:12   that the iPhone does when there's an iCloud backup.

00:18:14   No, it doesn't, 'cause there are intermediary backups

00:18:17   that are made, however, if you want to upgrade,

00:18:21   so let's say I'm going from a watch Series 0

00:18:23   to a watch Series 2, and I don't unpair the watch Series 0

00:18:28   before I go to the Series 2, the most recent backup

00:18:31   I might find might be two, three days old.

00:18:33   it's not gonna be current, which means you're not gonna

00:18:35   have your move data and you're not gonna have

00:18:37   your activity stuff, or it might be even older

00:18:39   if the backup didn't go through properly.

00:18:42   And that's really frustrating, the fact that you can't,

00:18:45   and there's no way to make a manual backup

00:18:48   unless you unpair it, which you were talking about,

00:18:50   which is like, that is the most frustrating thing.

00:18:53   Because when people Google how to backup your watch,

00:18:58   and it's not how to backup your watch,

00:19:00   it's how to unpair your watch,

00:19:01   which also makes a backup.

00:19:04   Like why couldn't there just be a button Apple?

00:19:06   Like really?

00:19:07   - I don't even see how you can see

00:19:09   where your latest backup is.

00:19:10   I don't know that you can.

00:19:11   I'm looking at that.

00:19:13   - The only way that you can see where your latest backup is

00:19:16   is when you're pairing a new watch, which is really dumb.

00:19:19   'Cause that's, I ran into that in a weird kind of,

00:19:24   where I had, this is complicated,

00:19:26   I had a backup of my phone,

00:19:28   or I had restored an iPhone 7 review unit

00:19:31   from the regular backup of my phone.

00:19:33   So it was running all of my apps and everything else.

00:19:36   And then I had a watch that I was doing some activity data on

00:19:41   and then I switched to my Jet Black iPhone 7 Plus,

00:19:45   which came in.

00:19:46   And the iPhone 7 Plus, I had restored from an iPhone backup,

00:19:50   but I'd restored from an iPhone backup like two days prior.

00:19:53   So the 7 Plus and the 7 were two days off

00:19:58   in terms of backups.

00:19:59   So when I got my new, my non-review Apple Watch Series 2

00:20:03   and I went to pair it with the jet black iPhone 7 Plus,

00:20:08   it was only showing me Apple Watch backups

00:20:11   that were two days old or more.

00:20:13   Because it couldn't see that, despite the fact

00:20:16   that these phones were essentially going

00:20:18   to the same iCloud backup and had the same information

00:20:21   on them and like had the same health data even

00:20:24   because of it being in iCloud,

00:20:27   it couldn't see the Apple watch backups that the iPhone seven made because in

00:20:32   iCloud's mind it was an iPhone seven plus Apple watch combo and an iPhone seven

00:20:37   plus plus Apple watch combo. And it's just like,

00:20:41   it's, it's the same iCloud account. It's so frustrating.

00:20:46   I really hope that they put some effort into that. And I,

00:20:48   I'm almost surprised they haven't because I always think like, okay,

00:20:51   so when people like me and you sit here and complain and it's worse for us

00:20:56   because I'm on my third iPhone 7 now.

00:20:59   I had two review units and the one I bought and now own.

00:21:03   And only the one watch, I'm still

00:21:05   wearing the review unit watch because I don't know

00:21:07   what I want to buy for myself.

00:21:08   But I realized that it's a tiny little violin that's

00:21:14   playing sad music for us because we have this--

00:21:16   We have all of these phones.

00:21:18   Yeah, we have all these gadgets to play with.

00:21:21   But I just can't help but think--

00:21:23   and I know that they're not supposed

00:21:24   to solve these problems for us because we're edge cases.

00:21:26   But even normal people who just bought one new phone,

00:21:29   it's terrible if you go through

00:21:31   and didn't remember to unpair your watch first.

00:21:33   - Yeah, or the worst part is if you're wearing your,

00:21:36   yeah, if you're wearing your watch

00:21:37   and it's still paired to your old phone

00:21:39   and you don't think about pairing it to your new phone

00:21:41   until a couple days after you've had your new phone,

00:21:44   which is entirely likely because people,

00:21:46   again, you treat the Apple Watch as a separate device

00:21:49   for a certain period.

00:21:50   It was what you were saying with the first iPhone, right?

00:21:52   Where it's like, they're treating the Apple Watch

00:21:54   as pretty much a separate device.

00:21:56   oh, it has GPS now and you can go outside for walks

00:21:59   and you leave your iPhone at home,

00:22:01   but it is still tied to the iPhone.

00:22:02   And that's something that's not really marketed enough

00:22:05   outside of the, yeah, it uses the iPhone cellular signal.

00:22:08   No, it is an iPhone accessory.

00:22:10   So if it's not tied to your right iPhone,

00:22:12   then everything falls apart.

00:22:13   And that is something that I can see being very confusing

00:22:16   for the average user and something

00:22:18   that they'll just throw their hands up about.

00:22:19   - Well, and the thing is that surely

00:22:21   there must be a lot of people inside Apple

00:22:23   who go through the same thing

00:22:24   because they are using test devices.

00:22:27   So that's why I'm a little surprised that they

00:22:29   haven't addressed this.

00:22:31   I mean, and I think it's one of the reasons why

00:22:34   you are now able to have multiple watches paired

00:22:36   with one phone.

00:22:38   Oh, yeah.

00:22:39   And part of it is that, of course, yeah,

00:22:41   if you want to buy a couple Apple watches,

00:22:43   Apple would love to sell you a couple.

00:22:45   But I'm sure that part of the reason that it's in there

00:22:47   is that some of the most likely--

00:22:48   Testers.

00:22:49   The most likely people to have several Apple

00:22:52   watches at the same time are people inside Apple who are testing new, you know, either

00:22:56   new, new software or new hardware or both.

00:22:59   Yeah.

00:23:00   It's got to get better.

00:23:02   It absolutely has to.

00:23:03   And I mean, I'm hopeful, especially as the as the watch evolves, but it's still it's

00:23:08   a pain point.

00:23:09   Yeah.

00:23:10   And it also seems like one thing in Siri, I didn't put a stopwatch to it.

00:23:13   So maybe it's just it went from really bad to sort of kind of bad.

00:23:17   The wireless network speed between your phone and the watch or something is so unbelievably slow.

00:23:25   It's so painful.

00:23:27   I swear I was restoring this watch after I just went through this again over the weekend where I had to unpair it,

00:23:36   because now I have it paired with the phone that I own myself.

00:23:39   And I let it go for an hour and I came back to it and it was still on that spinning, that slow spinner around the outside.

00:23:46   Oh no. I was like this is crazy. Did you restore your apps too?

00:23:51   Yeah, I don't have a lot of apps on my phone. But even so, yeah exactly.

00:23:55   It just it takes, when I was, I did a ton of speed tests because I got a, I got a series 2 review unit

00:24:02   but I also bought a series 1 for myself and then I had my original series 0 and I was doing like cross

00:24:07   crossways speed tests on all of these and the one thing like the series 2 like blows the series 0 out of the water in

00:24:15   in a bunch of different ways, the original generation Apple Watch. But when it comes to

00:24:21   barking talks, when it comes to the difference between like series two, series one, and the

00:24:28   original generation Apple Watch and boot time or restore time, like the boot time on an Apple Watch

00:24:35   series two is still over a minute. The boot time on series zero is like two and a half minutes,

00:24:41   But it's still like, if I'm waiting a minute and 20 seconds for my watch to start up, problems.

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00:26:53   Anything else that bothers you about Apple's upgrade process?

00:27:00   like Mac, iOS, switching to a new device,

00:27:03   upgrading the OS, anything along those lines?

00:27:06   - Overall, I find it pretty smooth.

00:27:10   The only thing that I think is a little bit frustrating

00:27:13   is the, as much as I love the over-the-air download process

00:27:17   for iOS, it can be very frustrating to update

00:27:21   if you're on the go, obviously,

00:27:23   because it's a big download.

00:27:24   It's a bit, the iOS 10 download was a gigabyte.

00:27:28   But the problem is, because of the way

00:27:30   way that the download currently works, say I'm waiting around for my download to fit

00:27:35   in, like it's update day, right?

00:27:37   It's release day and I've downloaded half of the release, half of iOS 10 to my iPhone

00:27:42   and then for some reason I need to go out and do an errand.

00:27:45   Well, I could either leave the phone at home and at the rate that it was going maybe like

00:27:50   10 kilobits a second, that would be downloaded, maybe half downloaded by the time I get back,

00:27:56   Or maybe I need the phone while I'm out and about, and if I take the phone and I leave

00:28:02   while it's downloading, there's no place where I can be like, pause my download while I go

00:28:07   off Wi-Fi, go do my errand, and then come back and resume my download and still have

00:28:12   the half of the update that I downloaded back.

00:28:15   You can do that on Safari for the Mac, you can do that even with iOS apps at this point

00:28:20   with pause download.

00:28:22   But there's no way to do that for these big updates.

00:28:25   And I realize that's, again, maybe a bit of an edge case.

00:28:29   But I know a lot of people who don't end up updating to iOS 10 because they don't

00:28:34   find time to.

00:28:35   Even with, Apple's done a lot better with the install while I'm sleeping and

00:28:40   stuff like that.

00:28:42   And the auto install night, that's all really nice improvements to this feature.

00:28:48   But it still runs, there are still people who, they start to install it and

00:28:54   and they think it's installed

00:28:55   because they started the process

00:28:56   and they don't even think, oh, you know,

00:28:58   if I leave my house before the install process is completed,

00:29:01   it's never, it's just going to stop the install process

00:29:04   and I'm never gonna get it installed.

00:29:06   Like just the average user

00:29:07   is not obsessive about download things.

00:29:09   They just, they've gotten used to the iOS app, you know?

00:29:13   I'm downloading an iOS app

00:29:15   and the iOS app is gonna download wherever I am.

00:29:17   Or it'll, you know, even if it can't get

00:29:19   a good network connection

00:29:20   or if I have cellular data turned off

00:29:22   while I'm running around,

00:29:23   it'll come back and finish downloading

00:29:25   when I get back to my computer.

00:29:27   But the update is not like that.

00:29:29   So that's my nitpicky complaint.

00:29:31   I can't really think of too many other ones.

00:29:33   - Me neither, but I agree with you.

00:29:36   Here's one thing, if we're gonna skip around,

00:29:39   but if we talk about iOS 10

00:29:42   and how it's faring in the real world,

00:29:44   I'm hearing from, I don't wanna drop names,

00:29:48   but people in the house,

00:29:52   that the heavier doses of 3D touch to do things,

00:29:59   or force touch, whatever they call it.

00:30:01   I guess on iOS it's called 3D touch.

00:30:04   It is not a welcome addition to the operating system.

00:30:09   Not a welcome addition, how?

00:30:10   That it's too confusing or not intuitive

00:30:14   when you need to press hard and when you just

00:30:16   need to normally tap.

00:30:17   and that having these things that,

00:30:19   like just to do the stickers in messages

00:30:24   that you have to force touch on the arrow.

00:30:25   - Oh yeah, to move it.

00:30:27   - I see some merit in that.

00:30:32   And to me, it's sort of like the old one button mouse

00:30:36   versus two button mouse argument,

00:30:39   where it seemed like, but maybe a little different,

00:30:44   because it seemed like in the old days

00:30:47   when Apple seemingly obstinately stuck to a one-button mouse

00:30:51   when every single, it was a fundamental aspect

00:30:55   of the Windows user interface

00:30:56   that there were things you would right-click on.

00:30:58   You couldn't really even properly use Windows

00:31:02   without a two-button mouse, and I don't know that anybody,

00:31:05   I don't even know that you could buy it

00:31:06   like a one-button mouse for a PC.

00:31:09   It wasn't even a thing.

00:31:11   Whereas, and it seemed like everybody,

00:31:13   the consensus among the nerds was that Apple

00:31:16   just sticking to this out of spite. Whereas what I saw was that this is, sure, if you're

00:31:21   a power user, you can go buy a two-button mouse or mouse with a scroll wheel and plug

00:31:26   it in and it'll work. But for most people, all they have to do is understand click. And

00:31:31   having just one type of click is fundamentally, it's so much simpler than even just having

00:31:37   two types of clicks, let alone the crazy gaming mice you can buy with 20 different buttons.

00:31:43   But even just going from one to two is a huge difference.

00:31:46   And everybody has seen people in the real world who don't know what to click on, what

00:31:52   to double click on, and stuff like that.

00:31:55   Click and double click was confusing enough for some people.

00:31:59   And I felt like that was part of the genius of iOS, was dialing that all the way back

00:32:03   to just tap.

00:32:04   Everything is a tap.

00:32:06   And I think Force Touch convulates that to some degree.

00:32:10   Yeah.

00:32:11   we were already getting into more advanced options with things like long presses, which have existed, I don't know, at least at least four or five iOS generations, maybe more. And earlier with the with third parties, I see 3d touch a lot in the way that I see two button mice on, you know, 1990s, early 2000s Apple computers, which is, there's not really anything on an iPhone, at least that I can think of,

00:32:40   where 3D touch is necessary to do a core function.

00:32:44   You know, 3D touch makes it faster

00:32:47   to open the battery pane in settings,

00:32:48   but you can still get to the battery pane

00:32:50   if you tap on settings and then tap on battery

00:32:52   and then tap on low power mode.

00:32:54   Like, can you think of something in,

00:32:57   like I can think of stuff on the watch

00:32:59   where you need force press to do extra things,

00:33:02   but is there something besides maybe stickers

00:33:06   where you really need a force press?

00:33:07   - The messages is one where there's certain things

00:33:10   that you seem to have to force press.

00:33:11   And then the other thing is to interact

00:33:13   with the notification widgets, right?

00:33:15   It seems like-- - Yeah, well, that's true.

00:33:17   But again, you can tap on the notification widget

00:33:20   and it'll send you to the right area.

00:33:22   - Well, I get it, but it seems like Amy,

00:33:25   to just name one person, doesn't always get,

00:33:28   and she seems frustrated that sometimes she thinks

00:33:33   she's pressing plenty hard enough to get a force touch

00:33:36   and it's not registering.

00:33:38   - Yeah, well that I think is an absolutely valid complaint

00:33:41   in that Force Touch sometimes works marvelously.

00:33:45   And I have my Force Touch 3D Touch pressed firmly.

00:33:50   I have my setting to the lightest version

00:33:53   so that it will trigger almost immediately

00:33:55   once I start pressing down on the screen.

00:33:57   And I would say it works about 75% of the time.

00:34:00   - Right, that's not good enough.

00:34:02   - No, exactly.

00:34:03   And it's like, I mean, it will work other times,

00:34:05   but other times it requires a little bit of firmer press

00:34:07   and I'm not sure if it's because there's something

00:34:10   on my fingers or if it's just the screen is misreading.

00:34:13   But yeah, it's a little bit frustrating.

00:34:16   And the place where I notice it the most

00:34:18   is turning the keyboard, if you press firmly

00:34:21   when the keyboard's active, you can turn that

00:34:24   into a movable cursor.

00:34:25   And I use that all the time when I'm writing on iOS.

00:34:29   And it was very, I don't know, very noticeable for me.

00:34:32   - I would just, I will reiterate that.

00:34:34   That is my favorite 3D Touch feature.

00:34:37   The first time I saw it last year, I was like,

00:34:39   oh, I will use that all the time.

00:34:41   And then I proceeded to forget that it existed

00:34:43   for weeks at a time.

00:34:44   So for listeners of the show, if you take one thing away,

00:34:46   if you're gonna write down an actual note

00:34:48   while you're listening to us talk,

00:34:49   the one thing I would emphasize is remember

00:34:51   that you can force touch on the keyboard

00:34:53   to make the cursor like a mouse cursor

00:34:56   that you can move around.

00:34:56   Because once you really do internalize that

00:34:59   and you don't even have to think about it to use it,

00:35:02   it is the best text editing change

00:35:05   since the original iPhone.

00:35:07   - Yeah, since copy and paste, quite honestly.

00:35:09   I don't use the, I rarely use the loop ever.

00:35:13   Like, and if you press harder--

00:35:15   - If you get a notification that you want to reply to,

00:35:17   like a messages one would be an example,

00:35:20   Tweetbot has it now for DMs,

00:35:22   you have to force touch on it to get the inline,

00:35:25   don't even open the app, just let me reply right here.

00:35:28   - Yeah, no, it looks like if you just tap the notification,

00:35:31   it'll send you directly into the app.

00:35:33   But I mean, again--

00:35:33   - But you have to force touch to get that little shortcut.

00:35:35   to get the short, but again, we're talking about shortcuts.

00:35:37   We're not talking about things where it's like,

00:35:40   or you know what, actually, I take it back,

00:35:42   because if it appears at the top of the screen,

00:35:45   you can drag down and it'll give you the information.

00:35:49   So you can drag on it the same way that you could

00:35:51   in I think iOS 9 or iOS 8,

00:35:53   and it would give you the same kind of further preview.

00:35:56   - If it were up to me, I think I would make,

00:35:59   I think that Force Touch should only and always

00:36:03   be a shortcut for a long press.

00:36:06   - Yes, I agree with that.

00:36:07   - So that anything that you do with a force touch,

00:36:10   if you just hold there, you'll get the same thing.

00:36:13   And I think that would be an accessibility win,

00:36:16   'cause I think it would help for anybody

00:36:17   who actually can't press hard enough.

00:36:20   And I think conceptually it would simplify things.

00:36:22   And I know that there are some conflicts.

00:36:25   Like right now you force touch on an app icon

00:36:28   on the home screen to get the list of shortcuts

00:36:30   for that app, and you long press

00:36:32   to get into jiggle mode where you rearrange apps.

00:36:35   But I-- - That's so annoying.

00:36:36   I wish you'd just do both.

00:36:38   - Yeah, I think it should just be one shortcut

00:36:40   and then one of the options for every app

00:36:42   would be like edit dot dot dot.

00:36:43   - Edit, yeah, exactly.

00:36:44   - And use like an icon to indicate that,

00:36:47   I'm sure there's some visual way that you could indicate

00:36:49   like this is how you get into the old jiggle mode.

00:36:52   It could easily be tied together like that.

00:36:56   And the other one that I remember

00:36:58   is if you go to the Apple Weather app

00:37:00   and you go to the list of cities or locations,

00:37:05   I tried to rearrange them before a trip

00:37:08   to move where I was going up to be number two

00:37:11   so I could always, right beneath the local,

00:37:14   wherever I am, and I couldn't remember

00:37:17   how to rearrange the cities for the life of me.

00:37:19   I just kept force touching on them

00:37:20   and it just kept opening them

00:37:22   and it took me a minute to remember

00:37:24   that you have to press and hold on that.

00:37:24   - Wow, you have to press firmly.

00:37:27   - No, not press firmly.

00:37:28   You press firmly-- - Oh, no, no, no,

00:37:29   - That's right, press lightly to rearrange.

00:37:32   Press firmly to like pull up a pop-up.

00:37:34   - Right, and if while you're waiting

00:37:37   for the hold to be long enough,

00:37:38   you start pressing too hard, it opens up.

00:37:40   - Those little things are so frustrating,

00:37:44   especially if you are somebody who goes in between

00:37:48   pressing firmly and long presses,

00:37:50   like trying to rearrange your app icons.

00:37:52   That's kind of an exercise in frustration,

00:37:56   And maybe just not enough people rearrange their app icons on a regular basis anymore.

00:38:01   They just, they don't care about the way their home screen looks or, cause I feel like Apple must be getting complaints about this, right?

00:38:08   Oh, I'm trying to rearrange my icons and I can't remember how to do it anymore.

00:38:11   I don't know.

00:38:12   It just, uh, I feel like it could be made together.

00:38:16   I feel like they, you know, be like an iOS 11 change, not like an iOS 10.2 change, but I feel like long press and force touch could be unified.

00:38:25   I think so. And it may, it may be one of those things where, sorry, the...

00:38:33   A little more.

00:38:34   Yeah. I think Rick is coming home. So they're really excited. Yeah, I think it may be something where in iOS 11, we may see a more drastic change to the home screen or something like that, where they're kind of like, we know this is a hack job right now.

00:38:52   but we promise it will all go away soon.

00:38:56   And I under, like, part of me understands that from a,

00:39:00   okay, we're working towards a bigger objective

00:39:03   and a bigger picture here, but the fact remains

00:39:05   that 3D Touch has now been in an operation

00:39:07   or will be in operation for two whole release cycles.

00:39:10   And to say, like, this is a hand wave,

00:39:12   we're gonna make it better soon for two years worth,

00:39:15   that's stretching it for the average user.

00:39:18   That's kind of painful.

00:39:20   - It is interesting to me watching the reaction

00:39:22   of people who are all new to iOS 10.

00:39:26   And we talked before about the home button change,

00:39:29   where you have to--

00:39:31   there's no more swipe to unlock.

00:39:34   Seems like at first, an awful lot of people

00:39:37   objected to some of the visual changes in iOS 10,

00:39:41   which I think in broad strokes--

00:39:45   In terms of the new control center?

00:39:47   Yeah.

00:39:47   And the-- yeah.

00:39:49   In a way, the widgets look more like windows.

00:39:53   There's like a 3D-ness, and they're not full width.

00:39:57   They have entire-- they're encapsulated.

00:40:00   They're a little bubbly.

00:40:01   Yeah.

00:40:02   There's just a little bit more depth to the interface.

00:40:04   It is-- to borrow an overused term from when iOS 7 came out,

00:40:10   it's less flat.

00:40:12   And not so much in a way that the actual individual buttons

00:40:16   and little windows themselves have 3D,

00:40:19   but that the layering of where they are in the system

00:40:22   is more 3D.

00:40:22   I like it a lot.

00:40:23   I think it's actually, to me, it's like iOS 10 has really,

00:40:28   it just shows how long it takes to get a major design right.

00:40:35   And to me, iOS 10 is the one where,

00:40:38   what they were thinking with iOS 7,

00:40:40   they've really dialed it back up

00:40:44   to the appropriate level of depth.

00:40:47   - It's an iMovie 08 to iMovie 11 kind of thing.

00:40:50   - Yeah.

00:40:51   - I wrote a, go ahead.

00:40:53   - Well, it just seems to me like people complained

00:40:55   about it at first, but it seems like right now,

00:40:57   as of now, everybody, now it was really just the newness

00:41:00   that bothered them.

00:41:01   And now they've gotten used to it.

00:41:03   - Well, it's the, any time that you change

00:41:06   someone's interaction path, they're gonna grumble

00:41:08   about it for a little while.

00:41:09   Same thing we were talking about with touch ID

00:41:12   and opening the phone, where it's like the control center

00:41:14   now having multiple cards.

00:41:16   Initially, that was a bit of a pain,

00:41:18   especially if you're dealing with sliders,

00:41:20   because if you don't tap on the right place for a slider,

00:41:23   you might accidentally slide the pane left to right,

00:41:26   and putting things in slightly different places,

00:41:29   being like, oh, I can't find this anymore,

00:41:31   and where is this?

00:41:32   And why does Notification Center

00:41:34   still have the widget screen in it,

00:41:36   despite the fact that the widget screen

00:41:37   is now its own real thing on the left-hand side?

00:41:40   Like there are still little bits and pieces here

00:41:43   that aren't quite right, but I wrote about this

00:41:47   right after WWDC in terms of the way that Apple

00:41:50   has changed the visual narrative to really be about

00:41:53   stacks and layers and about, you know,

00:41:55   the home screen is kind of your neutral layer now

00:41:58   and then apps pop up on top and you've got control center

00:42:02   and notification center on top above everything else.

00:42:06   And it's just, it's unified it now,

00:42:07   where it actually makes sense.

00:42:09   and then the lock screen is on top of everything else

00:42:11   because the lock screen is basically like

00:42:12   keeping you in this box.

00:42:14   Like, you're opening the box, you're pressing through

00:42:17   with the home button to go into this box.

00:42:20   And it's, I don't know, from a purely like,

00:42:24   tactile visual sense, which, odd combination of words there,

00:42:28   but really, it's very pleasing subconsciously, I think.

00:42:33   And initially, again, people are gonna be complaining

00:42:36   about it because it's not what they were used to, right?

00:42:39   But as you get used to it,

00:42:41   I think it becomes more and more comfortable

00:42:43   and things make sense.

00:42:45   It goes from a, I'm looking for this feature.

00:42:49   Oh, well, now I'm getting trained.

00:42:51   I'm getting visually trained to be like, okay,

00:42:54   well, apps are found by pulling something up

00:42:58   or pulling from a side of the screen

00:43:00   or moving from side, like there's, I don't know,

00:43:03   I really like the direction they're going with this.

00:43:06   - One of the things that I think

00:43:08   that they got wrong in iOS 7,

00:43:10   and to me, this is, iOS 10 is really where they've fixed it

00:43:15   in a lot of ways, is, and this is something I think that,

00:43:19   I'm willing to excuse a lot of it

00:43:20   as it just takes more than one or two years

00:43:23   to get a complete redesign right.

00:43:26   This is one of the things I think they could have gotten

00:43:28   much better right from the start,

00:43:30   and for some reason whatever was in their heads,

00:43:33   collectively, was wrong, was making sure

00:43:37   that the visual indication of something

00:43:39   that's either on or off is absolutely clear.

00:43:43   And I think it was a desire for aesthetic purposes

00:43:50   to not use color is what burned them in iOS 7.

00:43:55   And so for example, what I'm looking at

00:43:57   is the way that when you have Wi-Fi on in Control Center,

00:44:00   it's just a bright, vivid blue.

00:44:02   And then if you tap it to turn it off,

00:44:04   it is very clearly off because it's gray and drab.

00:44:09   I think that's one of my favorite changes,

00:44:11   is just the way that they're way more

00:44:14   willing in iOS 10 to use plops, little bits of very vivid color

00:44:20   to clearly indicate state in a way that they weren't before.

00:44:24   Yeah.

00:44:25   I mean, the color changes to iOS 10, I think,

00:44:27   have been one of the biggest improvements

00:44:31   upon the flat design, because you do,

00:44:34   it's like, okay, we can't use depth inside our buttons

00:44:38   to show what's on, what's off,

00:44:40   so let's actually use really bright, vivid, nice colors.

00:44:43   And you saw them kind of experimenting with that

00:44:45   in the original music app,

00:44:47   but it's really come kind of full circle now.

00:44:50   And you can kind of even see where they're going

00:44:53   by looking at the new music app and the new maps app

00:44:55   in terms of that like bolder, the bolder design

00:44:58   and using bright colors for each of the entries.

00:45:01   I like that so much more than just,

00:45:03   here's black and here's gray.

00:45:06   - All right, here's one I got like,

00:45:08   it was like my most explosively popular tweet of the month

00:45:12   was just the simple observation

00:45:16   that the night shift button in Control Center

00:45:19   has an unusual prominence and amount of screen real estate.

00:45:22   - It's so large, I don't understand.

00:45:25   Like, I never ever want to use this feature.

00:45:29   I don't like it.

00:45:30   I understand lots of people do.

00:45:33   Very popular with some people,

00:45:34   but I don't understand why it's so much more prominent

00:45:36   than any of the five things at the top,

00:45:38   airplane mode, wifi, Bluetooth,

00:45:41   do not disturb, and then rotation lock.

00:45:45   - Especially because night shift

00:45:46   should be set automatically, right?

00:45:49   - Right.

00:45:50   - It's like to go at a certain time.

00:45:51   - Right, if you really like the feature,

00:45:53   why in the world wouldn't you have it set

00:45:54   to turn on at sundown.

00:45:57   - I wonder if it's a placeholder for something.

00:46:01   - That's what an awful lot of people suspect

00:46:04   is that it's a placeholder,

00:46:06   but what is it that they think it's a placeholder for?

00:46:09   - I don't know.

00:46:10   - There is something, and it's not occurring to me.

00:46:13   There's something that people--

00:46:14   - I mean, you could argue play/pause buttons

00:46:16   instead of the music having its own--

00:46:18   - Well, that's the thing, that's where I'm going,

00:46:19   is that there are people,

00:46:21   'cause there used to be room there

00:46:22   for the little playback controls.

00:46:25   And people, that does seem like one change

00:46:27   that I think has merit,

00:46:28   and it's not just resistance to change,

00:46:31   but that seems to me like real people

00:46:33   are not happy with the playback controls

00:46:36   being on a second screen.

00:46:38   - Yeah, I don't mind it so much.

00:46:41   It's just, it's the problem of discovery, right?

00:46:44   Where people who are used to Control Center

00:46:46   just having one pane, they pull it up,

00:46:48   and they don't see the tiny dots at the bottom.

00:46:50   They just see the fact that there are no music controls,

00:46:52   so they automatically assume that the music app,

00:46:55   just you can't control it from Control Center anymore.

00:46:57   - It would be nice to be able to edit

00:47:00   the Control Center though,

00:47:01   to make Control Center something

00:47:03   where you can configure it to be just what you use.

00:47:07   - I completely agree.

00:47:09   Maybe that's the placeholder for Night Shift.

00:47:12   - Some people, I've also seen some people

00:47:14   in response to my tweets say,

00:47:15   why can't it be like Notification Center

00:47:17   where you pull down from the top

00:47:19   and Notification Center is full screen?

00:47:21   Why doesn't control center full screen?

00:47:23   Then there'd be room for everything on one screen.

00:47:25   And I think that the obvious answer to that is,

00:47:29   especially with the plus,

00:47:30   you can't reach the stuff at the top.

00:47:33   - Yeah, and-- - You know, that it's,

00:47:34   it seems very clearly designed to me

00:47:37   that it's meant to be reachable with one thumb,

00:47:40   and then, you know, so therefore it really shouldn't

00:47:44   and can't be full screen.

00:47:45   - Yeah, and if you try, you can't use reachability

00:47:49   when Control Center is active?

00:47:51   You can with Notification Center,

00:47:52   but not with Control Center.

00:47:54   - Reachability is a good one.

00:47:57   So I wrote in my iPhone 7 review

00:48:00   that I had to turn reachability off

00:48:02   because I found myself constantly,

00:48:05   inadvertently invoking it.

00:48:07   Anecdotally, asking around with a bunch of friends on Slack,

00:48:13   A, my friends, a lot of my friends

00:48:17   have run into this themselves

00:48:18   and had to do the same thing, turn off reachability.

00:48:21   And B, they reported that the normals in their life

00:48:26   have been running into the same thing

00:48:30   and that the normal people have no idea

00:48:33   what the hell reachability is.

00:48:35   And that it just--

00:48:36   - They just don't know why their screen

00:48:38   is going down halfway.

00:48:39   - Yeah, a friend of the show, John Siracusa,

00:48:41   said that his mom invoked it on her iPad

00:48:45   and his dad fixed it by restarting the iPad.

00:48:47   (laughing)

00:48:49   But that it was so confusing that it looked,

00:48:52   and I can see why.

00:48:53   It almost seems like a drawing problem.

00:48:55   Like you've run into this bizarre bug

00:48:57   where the computer is drawing your screen halfway down.

00:49:00   - Oh my gosh. - Have you run into this

00:49:02   or no?

00:49:03   - You know, I actually, I was expecting to,

00:49:06   after hearing a bunch of people get really concerned

00:49:08   about it with the new home button,

00:49:09   and I actually haven't at all.

00:49:11   Then maybe that's just because I have used reachability

00:49:16   a fair amount when I've been using the plus.

00:49:18   So I have figured out kind of a way to trigger it

00:49:21   versus a way to just press the home button.

00:49:23   The bigger problem that I've actually been having,

00:49:24   and again, this is kind of a niche thing,

00:49:26   but I've had a problem taking screenshots

00:49:28   where I used to have no problem whatsoever,

00:49:32   but because of the home button,

00:49:33   I now have the same problem that I have on the Apple Watch

00:49:35   where I have to press one button and then the other

00:49:38   to really make sure that the screenshot takes,

00:49:40   especially if I'm doing something weird,

00:49:41   like taking a picture of the camera app

00:49:43   while the camera app is open.

00:49:45   I don't know why either.

00:49:48   I don't know why.

00:49:49   And subjective preference for the new home button

00:49:54   versus the old home button aside,

00:49:56   I find that my screenshots have like a 50% failure right now.

00:50:00   Either the home button takes me home

00:50:05   before the screenshot takes off

00:50:07   or the power button powers off of the--

00:50:09   - Turns it off and that's even worse.

00:50:11   - Turns it off.

00:50:12   (laughing)

00:50:13   I have found the opposite though.

00:50:16   I found that the only way I can get it to work reliably

00:50:18   is to concentrate very hard on simultaneously post,

00:50:22   very, with much concentration,

00:50:24   pressing both buttons at the same time.

00:50:26   - It's even worse on the plus model too,

00:50:28   because it's so darn big.

00:50:30   Just trying to time it is impossible.

00:50:33   Like those are truly, truly first world problems.

00:50:38   And not a huge deal.

00:50:40   But you know, it's things that I certainly

00:50:43   wouldn't be adverse to an Apple engineer looking at

00:50:46   and being like, hmm, maybe we need to adjust the timing.

00:50:48   - Yeah.

00:50:49   Trying to think what else people are complaining about.

00:50:54   Like that might be it.

00:50:55   - Yeah, hmm, on the iPhone.

00:51:02   I mean, people are complaining

00:51:03   about the home button behavior,

00:51:05   that aside, or just the feel of the home button.

00:51:07   But I feel, I don't know.

00:51:08   I really like the new home button.

00:51:10   I vastly prefer it. - Okay, that was

00:51:11   my next question. - Yeah.

00:51:13   - What setting do you use?

00:51:15   - Currently, I have the hardest click on,

00:51:16   'cause I do like, I just like the feel of the Taptic Engine,

00:51:20   so I like having kind of that rumble

00:51:24   when I press in on the home button.

00:51:26   But I also like kinda, Matthew Panzorino mentioned this

00:51:30   in his review, and I thought that it was quite smart,

00:51:33   where he was saying, "Oh, I switch the severity

00:51:36   of the Taptic Engine when I'm doing things where I

00:51:39   don't want to wake up my baby or I want to do, you

00:51:41   know, I want to access the home button while I'm on

00:51:43   a podcast and I don't want to disturb anybody.

00:51:45   And I'm like, that's actually brilliant because

00:51:48   there are, there've been so many times where I'm

00:51:50   like, I want to test out an iPhone or test out a

00:51:52   feature in the middle of a podcast.

00:51:53   But, but the click on an old iPhone, especially

00:51:57   if you're doing it anywhere near the mic is a,

00:51:58   is pretty prominent.

00:52:00   And it's, it's like a click on an old, a click

00:52:03   on an old trackpad or an old mouse.

00:52:05   I am still firmly in the I prefer the old the old button old button and I it's been enough time now

00:52:13   uh that I think it's I think it you know I forget when did I get this when did I start using this

00:52:20   it must have been three weeks three weeks yeah um but I can accept it and I've I had that feeling

00:52:26   right from the start even just a day in I was like I don't think I like this I think I prefer

00:52:31   or the other way, but it's fine.

00:52:33   I am also on button level three.

00:52:38   Other friend of the show, though, Ben Thompson,

00:52:40   of Stratechery fame, he loves the new button.

00:52:44   And that's where I'm going with this,

00:52:46   is that it is very clear that I don't like it as much.

00:52:49   Other people-- you, Ben Thompson-- like it,

00:52:52   prefer it to the old button.

00:52:53   Ben also is a proponent of setting one.

00:52:57   He thinks that setting three is for people

00:53:00   who want to fake a button and that you should go with the flow that it's not a button.

00:53:06   And he likes it on setting number one.

00:53:08   And so on his advice, I spent a day and a half on setting one.

00:53:12   And I guess I can kind of see it, but then when I went back to three, I was like, "Oh,

00:53:16   no, this is much nicer."

00:53:17   No, you know, I just like tactile sensation too.

00:53:20   This is the same reason why sometimes I will just open up the date picker and just play

00:53:25   with it on the new models, because it's just nice.

00:53:28   It's nice to feel.

00:53:29   On that, I was thinking, I'm so glad you said that, because you mentioned with the control

00:53:36   center, when you go to change the brightness slider, if you miss, you actually just slide

00:53:42   over to music.

00:53:43   They should have a little taptic feedback for the slider.

00:53:46   Oh, that's a great idea.

00:53:47   Like a little tick, tick, tick.

00:53:49   Yeah.

00:53:50   As soon as you, then you know that you've got the little, the thing that you actually

00:53:54   slide.

00:53:55   - Especially you already have the haptic

00:53:57   in Control Center when you slide up.

00:53:59   - Right. - But you don't have a haptic

00:54:00   sliding side to side, so clearly.

00:54:02   - It would let you know, it would confirm for you

00:54:04   that you've got the nubbin or whatever.

00:54:06   - I honestly think right now in iOS 10.0.2,

00:54:10   I think we're on the main seed,

00:54:15   taptic feedback is very,

00:54:16   I don't wanna say haphazardly implemented,

00:54:19   but it's very much like the engineers put in

00:54:22   a bunch of potential things

00:54:24   and then left out a bunch of potential other ones

00:54:26   and like, let's see what sticks.

00:54:27   Let's see what people like.

00:54:28   Let's see if, you know, people might write and say,

00:54:31   we hate all of this tactic stuff.

00:54:33   But every, like there are places where I feel like

00:54:35   I should have tactic.

00:54:36   Like in notes, tapping on a note

00:54:39   to change to the keyboard view,

00:54:40   I wanted like a little, a click there to let me know,

00:54:44   oh, I'm in editing view, oh, I'm out of editing view.

00:54:47   Or have you, this is my favorite--

00:54:49   - Well, it should feel like it comes up.

00:54:50   Like in the way that when you spin the date picker,

00:54:52   it feels like it's spinning in the direction

00:54:55   that you are spinning.

00:54:57   The keyboard, when it slides up,

00:54:59   should have like a slight chunk

00:55:01   that would fake the-- - Signify, yeah.

00:55:04   - Like when you had a slider phone,

00:55:06   and you'd, like the old Palm Pre,

00:55:09   obviously when you slid the keyboard down,

00:55:11   it felt like something was sliding down, because it was.

00:55:14   - Well, and you have that feeling

00:55:17   for control center anyway,

00:55:18   so it's a haptic that's already implemented.

00:55:21   - Right, it should be exactly the same

00:55:22   the control center on?

00:55:24   - Yeah, have you used, and this is my favorite haptic

00:55:27   maybe in the system, if you go over on the digital keyboard

00:55:32   and you hold down, not firm press mind you,

00:55:36   just long press on say the dash button,

00:55:39   it brings up a little haptic to change it

00:55:42   from a dash to an end dash to an end dash to a bullet.

00:55:46   And then when you're sliding between those,

00:55:48   you have haptic for all of those little options.

00:55:52   And that is my favorite.

00:55:54   Like as soon as I discovered that,

00:55:56   that made me look towards the future

00:55:58   where I was saying like,

00:55:59   where things are not so haphazardly implemented.

00:56:01   And when perhaps we might have the battery life

00:56:04   to be able to put the entire keyboard haptic,

00:56:07   which I actually, I really wanna see a full haptic keyboard,

00:56:11   even just as a proof of concept

00:56:12   with the current haptic engine.

00:56:14   'Cause I think it would actually be better.

00:56:16   Not like obviously it's not gonna feel

00:56:17   like a real keyboard, but I think it would be a lot better

00:56:20   than people currently think it might be.

00:56:22   - Yeah, I have that on the Moto X.

00:56:27   This is my most, I guess I'm waiting

00:56:30   for to see what Google announces next week,

00:56:32   but it's the most recent Android device I bought.

00:56:35   It's from December 2014, and it's the one

00:56:38   that you could pick what the material on the back is.

00:56:42   Remember that phone?

00:56:43   - Yeah. - That's a real gimmick.

00:56:44   But anyway, this phone has haptic feedback

00:56:47   on the keyboard, but it has no directional sense at all.

00:56:51   You know, like so whether you're in the Q at the top left

00:56:55   or the M at the bottom right, it's the same tap.

00:57:00   Whereas it seems like Apple's got something

00:57:02   in the new phones that has a little bit of a,

00:57:05   you know, X and Y axis.

00:57:07   - Oh yeah, there's definitely a rotational motor.

00:57:09   And you can kind of feel that even just doing 3D touch

00:57:12   on the home screen, where if you tap on something

00:57:15   in sort of the bottom right corner,

00:57:16   that's gonna pull up a widget going upwards,

00:57:20   you can actually feel it going up,

00:57:22   as opposed to pressing at the top of the screen

00:57:24   and having a widget going down.

00:57:26   And I don't know how much of that is brain trickery

00:57:28   and how much of that is actually the motor jiggling

00:57:30   in a certain direction, but it's nifty.

00:57:33   - I can't, I have to imagine that they looked into it

00:57:35   and just, either they weren't satisfied

00:57:38   and therefore didn't release it,

00:57:39   or there's some, they had to have tried it.

00:57:42   Because for all the things that,

00:57:44   if we're gonna start putting haptic feedback

00:57:46   in the OS, the keyboard had to have been on the top of the list of things to try.

00:57:52   Well, that's, I think that's got to be their eventual goal. Like when they talked about

00:57:56   putting the Taptic Engine way back in the first generation of the Apple Watch, that

00:58:00   was my first thought is I'm like, this is, this is our slow path to getting a fully haptic

00:58:05   keyboard and having that work properly. But I have to imagine that haptic is not quite

00:58:11   where they want it, where they actually want to, you know, put it on the keyboard, because

00:58:15   I imagine their eventual goal is to combine haptics with the pressure sensitivity of the screen.

00:58:22   And really, like, in a way that what 3D Touch is currently doing, but if you can actually feel

00:58:27   depth, which you can sort of with 3D Touch, but not really, and it requires a much bigger

00:58:35   touch target area. But if you could feel depth on those tiny little keys, like that is potentially

00:58:40   a game changer for mobile keyboards. And it's, you know, it's, it would have to be done exactly

00:58:46   right or feel like gimmick. And right now the the Taptic Endon does feel a little a little static,

00:58:51   but the potential is there, the potential is there. And, you know, as I said, I, I can tell

00:58:57   it's not ready yet. But I still want a third party keyboard that just doesn't all have to keyboard

00:59:01   just for fun. Because I think it would be a blast. I can't help but think it's coming. I do think

00:59:09   I've said this many times over the years that it often matters what's tacked on five, ten

00:59:18   years, fifteen years after something was created as opposed to what was there from the outset.

00:59:26   The Force Touch and the haptic feedback to me has that sort of, it would be different

00:59:31   and more pervasive if it had been there right from the original iPhone.

00:59:35   It's like in the original iPhone, every single control,

00:59:40   every single standard user interface control

00:59:43   was reimagined from what that looks like on the Mac

00:59:47   to accommodate the difference between a touchscreen

00:59:50   with a big fat finger as opposed to a mouse and keyboard

00:59:54   and a mouse and pointer system

00:59:56   where you have this pixel level precision.

00:59:58   So things like the date picker, right,

01:00:02   where you get the spinning control on iOS

01:00:05   as opposed to a dropdown menu that you get on.

01:00:08   I think that if they had 3D touch from the beginning,

01:00:13   every control would have some sort of haptic feedback.

01:00:17   Whereas like you said now,

01:00:19   it seems like half the teams went through

01:00:21   and added some haptic feedback

01:00:23   and some of the other teams just were like, ah.

01:00:26   - Yeah, they're like, okay.

01:00:30   There's pretty much no haptic feedback in music,

01:00:32   for example.

01:00:33   Music is another one of those that has a card

01:00:35   that kind of flies up that could use it.

01:00:37   But yeah, there's not a, I really think it's an early,

01:00:41   we're seeing it in kind of its early days.

01:00:43   And did you get a chance, there was an app

01:00:47   on one of the demo phones at the event a few weeks back

01:00:50   that was a music app where you could play keys.

01:00:53   - Yes, yes. - Yeah, and it would,

01:00:54   I have no idea what that app is,

01:00:56   but I really wanna find it.

01:00:58   - I might be able to get that for you.

01:01:00   - Yeah, I could probably email somebody

01:01:02   get that information. But I just remember playing around with that and having a light bulb go off in

01:01:10   my head and being like, this is what Apple's waiting for. They're, yes, playing with it

01:01:16   themselves, but what they're really waiting to see is how third-party apps take advantage of Haptic.

01:01:22   And also, I imagine where they can steal. Not necessarily steal as in a bad way, but steal

01:01:28   as in the pull to refresh kind of thing,

01:01:30   where watch how third parties are doing it

01:01:32   and see if they're coming up with better ideas

01:01:35   than the internal team is coming up with.

01:01:37   See if they wanna try something different

01:01:39   that we've never thought of before.

01:01:41   - Yeah, so I don't know what the name of it was,

01:01:43   but the demo app they had put up like a piano keyboard

01:01:46   that was the width of the iPhone.

01:01:47   And it not only gave you the feedback,

01:01:50   the feedback seemed to correlate

01:01:52   to the location of the key you were pressing.

01:01:54   - Yeah. - That's the main thing,

01:01:56   is it really did feel like it wasn't just that the phone was clicking, it was that the key on the

01:02:01   screen was clicking. Yeah, it's not just, it's not a rumble controller, it's a specificity controller,

01:02:07   and, and you could change, you could change how heavy your press was, and you could feel that

01:02:14   difference, which that was the really like, yeah, again, it's the, it's the pressure combined with

01:02:19   haptics, which really makes this not just like a Nintendo rumble controller, but something much

01:02:25   more powerful.

01:02:27   Yeah. Um, let me take another break here. Thank our next

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01:04:20   One time I did a read for Backblaze and I said,

01:04:23   "Blackblaze?"

01:04:24   (Karen laughs)

01:04:25   And they, I think that's what I said,

01:04:27   and they went and registered the domain.

01:04:29   (laughs)

01:04:30   - Just in case.

01:04:31   - Yeah.

01:04:32   (both laugh)

01:04:33   - It's not quite as bad as your botched Microsoft read.

01:04:37   - Yeah, if you go to-- - Close.

01:04:38   - If you go to blackblaze.com,

01:04:40   it'll just redirect you right to backblaze.com.

01:04:44   So you could probably use that

01:04:45   and they'll know you're coming from the show too,

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01:04:49   (laughs)

01:04:50   - The same way.

01:04:50   (laughs)

01:04:52   You were talking about the music app.

01:04:55   I hear something that I still don't get

01:04:59   about going from one phone to another.

01:05:02   I don't understand how I'm supposed to get all my music

01:05:05   from one to another.

01:05:06   It just seems to me like every time I back up my Mac,

01:05:11   here's how I do the phones.

01:05:11   I do it to the Mac through iTunes

01:05:13   'cause I think it's faster than iCloud.

01:05:15   So I take my old phone or the review unit phone I use for two weeks, back it up to my

01:05:21   Mac, and then I take the new phone and go through the initial setup and say "restore

01:05:26   from iTunes" and then I connect it to my Mac and I restore it.

01:05:30   And then it seems like none of my music is here.

01:05:32   It's all got the cloud.

01:05:33   And I don't know if it's because I'm using Apple Music, but I had all of my music.

01:05:38   What I would like is to have my entire personal music library on the phone for all time and

01:05:45   And then anytime I'm anywhere on an airplane or something like that, I've got all my music.

01:05:49   And I would like to use Apple Music to listen to anything else that I want to listen to

01:05:53   that I don't maybe don't own as a thing.

01:05:56   And it doesn't seem to me like I know how to do that.

01:05:59   Yeah.

01:06:00   Do you understand?

01:06:01   I do.

01:06:02   I completely understand.

01:06:03   Okay.

01:06:04   But only because I've spent like practically a year troubleshooting Apple Music.

01:06:07   Can you explain this to me?

01:06:09   If you can explain this to me, this will be worth the entire episode of the show.

01:06:13   Okay.

01:06:14   So, from what I understand, when you restore from a backup of your phone, your previous

01:06:18   phone had all of your music locally, or had it, or ideally that's what you want.

01:06:23   Right.

01:06:24   Okay.

01:06:25   So, you had downloaded all of your local music previously to your previous phone, and for

01:06:27   some reason it did not restore with that music.

01:06:29   Correct.

01:06:30   Is that right?

01:06:31   Yes.

01:06:32   Okay.

01:06:33   So, I'm just, as a guess, because you have iCloud Music Library installed, I'm thinking

01:06:39   that Apple says, well, you know, john obviously wants, you

01:06:43   know, wants his apps restored. And so we're going to make a

01:06:47   actually not a deep with with an iTunes backup. Now, do you do

01:06:50   you still get all of your apps from the iTunes backup? Or does

01:06:53   it make it download them from from the cloud, I still have to

01:06:55   download them from the cloud. And there, that's the trick

01:06:58   then. So that's, that's their argument there is that to make

01:07:02   your iTunes backup faster, and not, you know, not stress about

01:07:06   it so much, we're going to save your information and make sure that all of the data for your

01:07:11   apps is all fine.

01:07:12   And when you restore your apps, that data gets plugged back in.

01:07:16   But we are not going to take the time to download multiple gigabytes of apps to iTunes and make

01:07:22   your restore longer.

01:07:24   And probably the same exact thing applies to your music where it's like, you may have

01:07:28   downloaded 40 gigs of music onto your old iPhone 7 review unit, but we're not going

01:07:34   to wait while 40 gigs of music is backed up to this phone or

01:07:39   backed up to your iMac and then rebat and then like transferred

01:07:42   back to your to your new iPhone seven that's, that's going to

01:07:45   be that's going to be too long for you, you're going to get

01:07:47   frustrated, it's going to take half the day. So instead, we're

01:07:50   just going to say, okay, if you want to redownload that music,

01:07:53   you can from iCloud music library. What I don't get is

01:07:57   when you restore a when you restore a an iPhone, your, your

01:08:02   apps all download automatically, I'm surprised that it wouldn't download your, redownload

01:08:08   your music from the cloud, because it knows, again, it has that metadata, it knows what

01:08:11   you had prior.

01:08:13   So in theory, that should happen as well, if we're following that same model from the

01:08:17   apps.

01:08:18   But it doesn't sound like it's currently doing that.

01:08:21   And that's a point of contention.

01:08:25   What I will say that Apple has done that's much better this time around with iCloud Music

01:08:32   library than prior. Well, A, they've made it so that if you're subscribed to Apple Music,

01:08:39   your music gets uploaded to iCloud Music Library as your music. So there's no more DRM, which

01:08:44   is very helpful, unless you're downloading an Apple Music song. And that also allows them

01:08:50   to essentially split your library. So now there's a setting, I'm just going into settings

01:08:56   really quickly so I can remember what it's actually called so I don't misquote it here.

01:09:00   inside Apple Music, there's now a setting called add playlist songs. And essentially, when you add

01:09:09   music from the Apple Music Library, if you don't have add playlist songs enabled, those songs will

01:09:17   just go into an Apple Music playlist. So they won't, they won't contaminate your library. They'll

01:09:24   just kind of hang out sort of in an in an Apple Music repository rather than messing around with

01:09:31   your local library. At least that's how it worked in the beta. Hopefully it hasn't changed.

01:09:35   I like that. Yeah, exactly. That was that's a really nice, like subtle thing. And I believe

01:09:40   it's turned off by default. It's on online and I don't remember turning on so I don't know.

01:09:44   Alright, then maybe Yeah, it might. It may have changed in the beta. But that is that is one

01:09:51   option for kind of separating your two. And then also, of course, there's the downloaded music

01:09:57   option. I think I feel like there was an easier way to download a bunch of albums.

01:10:05   I know.

01:10:05   I didn't find it. And

01:10:07   well, oh, you know, I mean, it also is probably I'm like, I'm tapping on the my various albums. And

01:10:13   I'm like, maybe I have all of my albums stored locally on this phone. Maybe that happened

01:10:18   because I'm tapping on all of them and it says delete from library. Of course that may be delete.

01:10:24   Yeah, oh yeah, download. There we go. So you can download by album and you can download by,

01:10:30   no, you can't download by artist. I would just like to say download everything. Download all,

01:10:36   yeah. I wonder if you can do that in the music settings. And now we're just troubleshooting on

01:10:40   the air. This is great. Well, we'll look at it later. Anyway, I wish, I think that Apple Music

01:10:46   is much better designed this year than last.

01:10:49   I think it's a very promising sign that they got it,

01:10:53   that what was so confusing last year.

01:10:56   I still feel like it has a long way to go.

01:10:58   - It really does.

01:10:59   There is automatic, yeah.

01:11:01   Optimized storage is now a toggle, which is really nice.

01:11:05   So you can just keep your downloaded music

01:11:07   as your downloaded music.

01:11:08   - Right, and that's the feature where

01:11:09   if your device is running low on space,

01:11:11   it'll start removing--

01:11:15   - Culling.

01:11:16   calling music that you haven't played recently, which

01:11:19   is a pretty good feature.

01:11:20   And only stuff that you can re-download if you need to.

01:11:24   Yeah.

01:11:25   I really wish there was an easier way to download all music.

01:11:27   It's a little frustrating.

01:11:29   I still feel like at a fundamental level,

01:11:32   they're trying to do away with the distinction between my

01:11:35   music, my personal--

01:11:37   the music collection I started building when Napster first

01:11:39   collected, I first started downloading MP3s

01:11:43   or turning my old CD collection into MP3s, and Apple Music,

01:11:48   this thing that I pay for that has everything.

01:11:50   I still-- I just want--

01:11:52   I just want all of my music, which now easily fits--

01:11:55   I forget how big my total music library is,

01:11:57   but it used to be in the old days

01:11:59   where, like when the 8 gigabyte was the big iPhone,

01:12:02   couldn't have it all.

01:12:03   And now it's a joke.

01:12:05   It's-- I don't know.

01:12:06   If I've got like 10 gigs of music or something like that,

01:12:08   well, a 256 gigabyte iPhone can have it all easily.

01:12:12   - And then some. - Right.

01:12:14   - And then-- - And record some 4K video too.

01:12:16   - Right, and so then no matter where I am,

01:12:17   if I have no network access whatsoever,

01:12:19   I'm in an elevator on an airplane. (laughs)

01:12:24   I know that I at least have all the music

01:12:27   that it's my music and I can play it all right now.

01:12:30   So anyway, that's-- - That's the way it should be.

01:12:33   Maybe in the, when they finally redesign iTunes, ha ha ha.

01:12:39   - Yeah, maybe, I don't know.

01:12:41   All right, so what did you end up buying a phone for yourself yet?

01:12:45   I did.

01:12:46   What did you get?

01:12:47   I ended up buying a jet black iPhone 7 Plus.

01:12:50   And you have it already?

01:12:51   I have, well, I have it because I ordered it.

01:12:54   I didn't know that Renee and I were going to be getting review units until a couple

01:13:00   days before the launch.

01:13:02   So I ordered mine at 3am, 3.01am on the Apple Store app from bed because I wasn't sure when

01:13:09   otherwise when I would be getting a phone.

01:13:12   So I just, I went ahead and I was just like,

01:13:15   I really, I really, I hate, I hate the plus.

01:13:18   Sorry, hashtag Mike was wrong.

01:13:21   But I wanted the camera features

01:13:25   and I knew that if I was going to be writing

01:13:27   about the camera features, I kinda needed the bigger phone.

01:13:31   But I was like, you know, I also have 14 days,

01:13:33   so if I really despise the giant phone carrying,

01:13:38   then I can return it and go back to an iPhone 7

01:13:41   or wait like a million weeks

01:13:43   to get an iPhone 7 properly.

01:13:44   So I have that and then I have an iPhone 7

01:13:48   and an iPhone 7 Plus that are my review units.

01:13:50   So I actually have jet black iPhones in both models.

01:13:53   No one come rob me.

01:13:54   - You must have gotten your order in like at 301.

01:13:59   That's Eastern time.

01:14:00   - Oh yeah, yeah.

01:14:01   I was probably one of the first people,

01:14:03   at least in my Twitter feed,

01:14:04   who actually got the app open

01:14:07   and showing on the ordering screen.

01:14:08   And I still was pushed out a week.

01:14:11   Like I didn't get my seven plus until,

01:14:14   I don't know, the middle of last week.

01:14:16   - I think that was the first batch, I really do.

01:14:18   - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:14:19   - Well, they went quickly.

01:14:21   I think like two people I know got them on release day.

01:14:24   - And well, was it the plus size?

01:14:26   'Cause it seems like the plus--

01:14:27   - The plus jet black, yeah.

01:14:28   - Wow, that's amazing.

01:14:29   They must have really been like in the first--

01:14:31   - Right on the, yeah.

01:14:33   - I had a lot of trouble with the app.

01:14:35   And in years past, the app always seemed like

01:14:38   that was the way to go, use the iPhone app to order.

01:14:41   So I switched like 10 minutes in to,

01:14:45   after 10 minutes of things not going well,

01:14:49   switched to the website,

01:14:50   and the website actually worked perfectly.

01:14:52   I just was like, bloop, bloop, bloop, new iPhone,

01:14:54   bloop, bloop, bloop, another new iPhone.

01:14:56   - I had no problems with the app

01:14:59   once I got it to actually load.

01:15:01   My initial thing was just, I mean,

01:15:04   I was doing probably the horrible thing

01:15:06   that no Apple server tech wants to hear,

01:15:09   which is as soon as 3001 hit,

01:15:14   I kept on force quitting the app and then reloading,

01:15:17   force quitting, reloading, force quitting, reloading.

01:15:19   It's like the horrible version

01:15:22   of the command refresh on a Mac.

01:15:25   And I got through probably 302, 303,

01:15:28   and other people were trying to do that

01:15:29   and didn't get through until 315, I think.

01:15:31   - It wasn't clear if you just left the app open,

01:15:34   whether it would reload.

01:15:36   - Yeah, no, it's true.

01:15:37   - It wasn't clear.

01:15:38   My assumption was that it would,

01:15:40   but since I don't know force quitting,

01:15:43   I know it's gonna reload, so therefore I force quit.

01:15:45   - Exactly, exactly.

01:15:46   It's the same principle way back when with the live blogs.

01:15:50   I don't know.

01:15:51   - If they just would've printed on the,

01:15:55   the store was down before they enabled it,

01:15:57   if they would've just put on that page

01:16:00   saying that the store is down,

01:16:01   that there is no need to refresh,

01:16:03   then I would have trusted them and I would have left it open.

01:16:08   It also says, MacRumors--

01:16:10   I don't know if you saw this this morning--

01:16:12   has a report from Ming-Chi Kuo, the supply chain guru,

01:16:20   that Jet Black models are suffering from a, quote,

01:16:23   "low casing production yield rate," meaning 30% to 40%

01:16:27   of the units that they are making

01:16:30   don't pass Apple's quality standards.

01:16:33   I don't think there's any difference

01:16:35   between the regular size and plus on that.

01:16:37   - No, no.

01:16:38   Or at least there isn't anything in his data

01:16:40   that was released to MacGromers.

01:16:42   But what I do think, I'm not surprised by it,

01:16:46   given how tetchy Jet Black is to begin with,

01:16:49   and the deals with scratches and everything else.

01:16:52   But specifically, I don't know if you noticed this,

01:16:55   you have at least one Jet Black review model, right?

01:16:58   - I have a Jet Black review model,

01:17:00   and the one I bought is Jet Black.

01:17:02   jet black. Yeah. The thing that we were noticing at iMore is that the unlike pretty much every

01:17:11   other model of iPhone 7, there's a little bit of a, like a protrudence for the SIM card. If you put

01:17:20   your finger on the side with the jet black iPhone, you've got a little bit of a bump there. Whereas

01:17:26   if you do that on anything like on another iPhone 7, like on a matte iPhone 7, you don't really feel

01:17:32   that so much. And I have to think that there are little bits, little things like that with the

01:17:37   anodization, especially because of the way they do this and the double anodization process with,

01:17:44   you know, I'm going to get it wrong if I try and describe it in detail, so I'm just going to avoid

01:17:49   it. But I mean, there's a lot of technology that goes into making this phone look the way it does,

01:17:55   which is honestly kind of magical in terms of like how ridiculous it ends up looking.

01:18:01   If I go into full Princess and the P mode, I would claim, and I think I could do this blindfolded,

01:18:09   that my review unit, iPhone 7 in Jet Black, the SIM card prudence is almost indistinguishable.

01:18:17   And on this one that I now own, it is noticeable. Not like I am complaining about it.

01:18:25   Not, it's not, yeah.

01:18:26   But it is slightly different.

01:18:28   Yeah. And I imagine all of them are slightly different. Like on my review iPhone 7, it is much more noticeable than on my 7 Plus. There's a definite cutout.

01:18:42   So are you happy that you ordered Jet Black for yourself?

01:18:45   for yourself.

01:18:46   Sarah: Oh yeah, without a question. I was a little nervous about it initially because I really wasn't

01:18:53   sure how badly it would scratch up and whether or not the material finish would be enough that I

01:19:01   would feel comfortable keeping it caseless, especially with the 7+ being as massive as it is.

01:19:07   But I have, you know, I've been rocking the review unit in a case because I generally try and not to

01:19:12   destroy Apple's materials.

01:19:13   um and then the way i treat my review units better than the ones i own and i know some of the other

01:19:18   reviewers don't they're like yeah what the hell is a review unit yeah the only thing i've done

01:19:23   to the the poor reviewing unit is made it film underwater a bunch of times and it seems to be

01:19:27   okay good good good phone uh but yeah my my seven plus i got in jet black no regrets i love i love

01:19:33   the tactile finish i've got probably i don't know i'm like the thing is i've got it i know i've got

01:19:40   a ton of scratches on this thing, but unless I'm looking at it in direct light, I really

01:19:44   can't see them.

01:19:45   That's kind of the beauty and the curse of the jet black finish, is that in sunlight

01:19:50   or in direct light, you can see every single scratch and bemoan it and cry and have it

01:19:56   hurt your heart.

01:19:57   But in every other lighting, and just by holding it in your hand, you can't feel the scratches

01:20:03   on the casing.

01:20:05   You can't really notice them and even in direct sunlight, it just, it looks, again, it ages,

01:20:13   it's starting to age well, as opposed to just looking like, I could have seen a version

01:20:18   of this, maybe not an Apple phone that had a sort of this kind of aluminum anodization,

01:20:24   where the second you get a scratch, you can start to see like the aluminum under the black

01:20:29   casing and it starts feeling really weird and just not not ending up being a good experience

01:20:35   but I'm I'm pretty impressed in how they've ended up doing that was the problem that people

01:20:39   had with space black on the the iPhone five oh it was just scratching that way they called

01:20:47   it did they call it space black I think so it was either you might have just been black

01:20:52   it might have been before the era of space blank whatever it was I liked it but it when

01:20:56   - When it did scratch or flake,

01:20:58   especially around that beveled edge,

01:21:01   it did show the more naturally aluminum color underneath.

01:21:06   And I do feel like they've gone back to these dark colors

01:21:11   because they've got it down now

01:21:13   where the anodization layer is deep enough

01:21:17   that even if you get a scratch,

01:21:18   the scratch is still the same color as the...

01:21:20   - The regular, yeah. - The virgin device.

01:21:26   - Yeah, I remember an Apple spokesperson talking to me

01:21:29   about having the anodization,

01:21:31   doing a double coat of anodization

01:21:33   and having one of them seep into the pores of the aluminum,

01:21:36   which may or may not be an actual description

01:21:38   of how the process actually works,

01:21:40   but I can definitely believe that idea.

01:21:43   And we did, I will say, RIP Rene's review unit,

01:21:47   because he did drop it a couple of times

01:21:50   into water at semi-high velocities,

01:21:53   and there's a little bit of a chipped corner

01:21:56   on one of the phones.

01:21:57   And that one, the very visible chip

01:22:01   does have a lighter aluminum look to it

01:22:03   than the just normal run-of-the-mill scratches.

01:22:07   But I think that's to be expected.

01:22:08   If you physically smash a corner of your phone

01:22:12   into pavement, you're probably not gonna retain

01:22:15   that beautiful finish.

01:22:16   But the screen didn't break, so.

01:22:18   - It is a finish.

01:22:19   I mean, it's not magic.

01:22:20   It's not like they-- - No.

01:22:21   - Well, I don't know, maybe there's something.

01:22:23   Maybe they could make black aluminum, but it is a finish,

01:22:26   not just like the metal itself is that color.

01:22:29   I am 100% convinced I've made the right call

01:22:32   for me personally.

01:22:33   It took me a long time though.

01:22:34   Even when I recorded a week ago with Jim,

01:22:36   I was still on the fence as to whether it was the right move.

01:22:40   But now I'm convinced.

01:22:41   And I really don't even care what it looks like

01:22:43   after a year, even if it's all scratched up.

01:22:45   The feel alone is enough for me because I've always been,

01:22:51   I mean, it's starting with the five even,

01:22:54   five, five S, six, six S.

01:22:57   So for four generations, I've always been a little unhappy

01:23:01   with the slipperiness of the aluminum back.

01:23:03   And it was particularly bad with the iPhone six.

01:23:07   And anecdotally broken, backed up by the fact

01:23:09   that the iPhone six was the one and only iPhone

01:23:12   I've ever cracked a screen on.

01:23:14   - Yep.

01:23:15   - And I remember last year with the six S asking,

01:23:19   When I got the review unit and had the briefing, I said, "This feels more tactile to me.

01:23:28   Did you guys change something, or is it just that my personal old iPhone is worn?"

01:23:34   And they denied it.

01:23:35   They said, "Oh, that's interesting."

01:23:37   It's like the weird way that when Apple doesn't want to talk about something, they won't say

01:23:42   you're crazy.

01:23:43   They'll say, "It's interesting you would say so."

01:23:44   No, I don't think we've done anything.

01:23:47   But I think they did.

01:23:48   disclose right and I just think that they didn't want to say that the old one

01:23:52   was slippery so they didn't want to say the new one is less slippery but it

01:23:56   clearly was to me and it seems like everybody I know who's had both backs it

01:23:59   up but the difference with Jeff black is just night and day it's it's oh yeah

01:24:03   it's just not slippery at all and that to me is like it it just feels so much

01:24:09   better coming in and out of my pocket I found so much more certain that I'm not

01:24:12   going to fat finger the the phone then it's worth it somebody posted a picture

01:24:18   on Twitter the other day showing their old, either very

01:24:22   original or first or second year iPod.

01:24:26   Oh, yeah.

01:24:27   I forget who posted the picture, but the back of the iPod

01:24:30   was a very shiny, polished, mirrored aluminum.

01:24:34   And they all got scratched to hell.

01:24:37   Oh, yeah.

01:24:38   The original case.

01:24:39   Right.

01:24:40   That nobody complained.

01:24:42   We've gotten to the point now where--

01:24:44   and if your personality type is the such

01:24:47   that the idea of these quote unquote micro abrasions

01:24:50   bothers you, it seems to me that's very clearly half

01:24:53   of the reason why they have the regular black in addition

01:24:56   to jet black.

01:24:57   I think the other half being the aforementioned production

01:24:59   problems with jet black.

01:25:02   But if you're bothered by the idea of an easily

01:25:05   micro abrasioned finish, don't get it.

01:25:10   Yeah, no one is forcing you to get the jet black iPhone.

01:25:14   But if you don't care so much about resale value

01:25:17   And I think that is a big concern for folks,

01:25:19   especially overseas, is, you know,

01:25:21   I'm gonna get this phone, but I'm gonna keep it

01:25:23   in pristine condition for a year,

01:25:25   and then able to resell it.

01:25:27   And once the Apple upgrade program, I think,

01:25:30   floats out to more countries and more areas,

01:25:35   that will become less of an issue, maybe, possibly.

01:25:39   Although, I mean, still, you're talking about reselling

01:25:41   into the gray market, which is a whole different question.

01:25:44   But that's the only reason why I could think

01:25:46   to avoid the jet black or to get the jet black

01:25:49   and then immediately put it into a case.

01:25:51   'Cause you can.

01:25:52   My review unit, my iPhone 7 jet black,

01:25:55   has basically been in a Sena case

01:25:57   since the day I got it, or the day after I got it,

01:26:00   and it has maybe one or two scratches on the back,

01:26:05   and then the one night that I kept it out of its case

01:26:09   to do some photo tests, this is my own damn fault.

01:26:16   I had also gotten a brand new nylon band,

01:26:19   and I had taken it out of its, you know,

01:26:21   out of the packaging from the Apple store,

01:26:23   and I'd put the nylon band in my pocket,

01:26:26   and I put the iPhone 7 in my pocket,

01:26:28   and the nylon band's buckle rubbed up

01:26:31   against the front upper corner of the poor iPhone 7.

01:26:34   So it has this now very, very smoothed in set of scratches

01:26:39   from that nylon band buckle

01:26:42   just kind of etching its way in there.

01:26:45   And it doesn't, again, you cannot tell

01:26:47   that it's scratched at all unless you catch the light.

01:26:50   And then it's this like circle of doom here.

01:26:54   But otherwise, you know, eh, it looks fine.

01:26:56   - I do feel that the term microabrasion,

01:26:59   it's slightly euphemistic, but I feel like it's warranted.

01:27:01   'Cause for me, the definition between a scratch

01:27:04   and a microabrasion is these microabrasions,

01:27:06   and this is all I've seen on both of the ones I have here,

01:27:09   are exactly like you said.

01:27:10   You have to catch the light at the right angle

01:27:12   and look for them, and then you can see them.

01:27:14   but you can't feel them with your skin

01:27:17   and you can't even feel them with like your fingernail.

01:27:19   And to me, a scratch is something that you can see

01:27:23   in regular light and/or something that you can feel

01:27:28   with your skin or your fingernail.

01:27:30   - Mm-hmm.

01:27:31   There's a, I got a scratch on my iPhone 6S Plus

01:27:36   on the screen that is very noticeable.

01:27:38   That's like a fingernail type scratch.

01:27:41   And I, you know, this, I've put the 7 Plus since I got it through some fairly hefty, like, it was out on the beach doing some photography for my upcoming Apple Watch review.

01:27:51   And I managed to walk away from this thing not only being near the beach, but also being dipped in the water and like swum around with sand particles and dust particles and everything else.

01:28:03   And it came out of it pretty much pristine.

01:28:06   So I really think that although the yield rate may be low on the jet black, it's probably for a good reason.

01:28:13   And I kind of feel for Apple's shipping department and their production lines, because I'm sure having the yield rate below is a pain in the ass for their profit margins and everything else.

01:28:25   But it's resulting in, hopefully, a much better overall product for people when they finally get them into their hands.

01:28:30   Yeah.

01:28:30   And I've said this before, I will probably say it again all year long.

01:28:34   I actually feel bad for regular black because I love it.

01:28:38   I love the regular black. - Oh, it's gorgeous.

01:28:39   I almost got it.

01:28:40   - I wish that they'd come out with it a year ago

01:28:42   so that I would have had a year

01:28:44   where I got to use the regular black

01:28:46   because I like it so much more than Space Gray's sort of,

01:28:49   am I dark, am I light, eh, sort of in the middle.

01:28:52   - Shrug.

01:28:54   - I really feel bad that this new finish

01:28:57   that I absolutely love that I didn't,

01:29:01   I'm not gonna actually own.

01:29:03   Here's my hope.

01:29:03   My hope is that they bring the exact same flat black aluminum

01:29:07   finish to the MacBook Pro.

01:29:09   Yes.

01:29:10   I would love that.

01:29:11   And I do-- I really like the flat black aluminum.

01:29:13   I thought that was the phone that I

01:29:15   was going to get until I touched the Jet Black.

01:29:17   And I think yield rate and cost aside,

01:29:21   even if it was the exact same yield rate and cost for Apple,

01:29:24   I think Jet Black would be wrong for the MacBook Pro.

01:29:28   I feel like you're--

01:29:31   You know, like, okay, so there's fingerprints that you can wipe off on this, but the fingerprints

01:29:35   are always pointed away from me, right?

01:29:37   You know, on the back of the phone.

01:29:40   Whereas like on the palm rest on your MacBook, I think it would be really ugly.

01:29:45   Well, also, you remember the—I think about Apple's history with black laptops, and

01:29:50   I think about the Wall Street, and I think about the black MacBook, and all of those—I

01:29:54   mean, have they ever really made a glossy computer aside from the iBooks outer shell?

01:29:59   No, I don't think so.

01:30:01   I just think it's I think it's glossy is just wrong for a Mac

01:30:04   book. Yeah, it just doesn't feel right. So that's my hope. My hope

01:30:07   is they bring that that that same black to the MacBook Pros

01:30:10   and then I'll get to own it.

01:30:11   Yeah, oh, for sure. That's I would I would buy a new black

01:30:16   Mac laptop in a heartbeat.

01:30:18   I would buy what I'm so superficial. I would buy one.

01:30:22   Even if it didn't have any if it was like, Whoa, what's going on?

01:30:25   Exactly the same. This is a two year old Intel CPU.

01:30:29   It's black.

01:30:30   It's mine.

01:30:31   Let me thank our third and final sponsor.

01:30:37   I still have more I want to ask you about,

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01:31:18   Automatic is a dongle that you plug in there on your own.

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01:31:29   I've had one for a while.

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01:31:32   That's the old one though.

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01:31:43   So if you think that's too good to be true.

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01:31:55   So now, you're automatic.

01:31:56   You plug it in your car.

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01:32:01   It's just built into the price of the device.

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01:33:48   talk show. You've been doing a lot of stuff with the cameras, you and Renee,

01:33:53   with the iPhone. And I saw last night, I think it was last night, but it was

01:33:57   certainly over the weekend, where you were doing like product review

01:34:02   photography of Apple Watch. And had, what did you say? It was like you did a

01:34:07   glider? What was it that you were talking about? Oh yeah, yeah, so a slider.

01:34:12   So yeah, with a, and actually I didn't even know this was the

01:34:16   professional term for it until we were filming with Michael Fisher, who used to work for

01:34:22   pocket now someone and now works on his own YouTube channel. And he brought these big

01:34:28   giant slider rigs to put his camera on which are basically exactly what they sound like

01:34:32   where you put your camera on a on a big like horizontal thing. And then you move your camera

01:34:39   all along the slider reel while you're while you're filming. And it and it makes for those

01:34:44   like beautiful nice pans that you see in product videos or like this the slow zooms the you know

01:34:53   it basically it's like a it's like a tiny steady camera rig for the for the ground or for a table

01:34:58   and I don't have any of that equipment because I do some videography but I'm not you know I

01:35:08   generally am only doing videos for specific events. And I think it was last year when we

01:35:16   started experimenting with the idea of could we shoot a review video on a phone, I did the iPhone

01:35:23   6s review entirely on my iPhone as a fun, like, just a throwback after Rene did his official

01:35:31   review and in order to shoot like those beautiful like pretty device shots I'm

01:35:38   like well I can't shoot this even with my I have like a couple of different

01:35:41   pseudo steady cam rigs for the phone and even with those rigs I can't shoot a

01:35:47   nice slow pan without it looking jittery and too much for Final Cut to fix and so

01:35:54   while I was filming this stuff I had kind of an epiphany last year and I'm

01:35:57   like, Wait a second, what if I shoot in slow mo. So I flipped

01:36:04   over to the slowmo slider and I made sure it was I think it's

01:36:06   like 120 frames per second 1080p and then just shot the same the

01:36:12   same pan, but shot it in slowmo with my rig. And when you play

01:36:16   it back in slow motion, it looks almost identical to using those

01:36:21   sliders.

01:36:22   I I've just done it. I've put a link to your tweet with it, which

01:36:25   has the video in the show notes, and people can go.

01:36:28   I was blown away, honestly.

01:36:31   Part of it is that I'm an idiot, and I still run a website.

01:36:35   It's 2001, and there are no videos.

01:36:40   But--

01:36:41   Probably for the best.

01:36:42   I feel like one of--

01:36:44   it made me realize that I wouldn't have a reason

01:36:47   to do it for that, like a product review

01:36:50   shot of Apple Watch.

01:36:51   But I realized, looking at that, that I'm vastly

01:36:54   underusing slow motion video in period, just for my personal use.

01:36:59   It's like it hasn't really gotten into my head

01:37:02   that I have an amazing slow motion camera,

01:37:06   and that it can make all sorts of things interesting.

01:37:10   I tend to only think of the most obvious thing,

01:37:12   like catching my kid at the beach jumping off a rock into the ocean.

01:37:18   Well, shoot that in slow-mo.

01:37:20   That'll look cool.

01:37:21   But that's the most obvious-- that's the first thing everybody thinks of.

01:37:24   That's your traditional slow-mo shot.

01:37:26   Right.

01:37:27   You can get, like, for just shooting a panorama

01:37:30   or something like that, I think it smooths out

01:37:32   the motion in an amazing way.

01:37:34   It's just unbelievable to me that this video in your tweet

01:37:37   was shot with a phone.

01:37:39   I know.

01:37:40   Without some kind of complicated tracking rig,

01:37:44   slider, whatever they call it.

01:37:46   It really is amazing.

01:37:48   And on top of that, that particular shot,

01:37:50   that was shot freehand.

01:37:51   That wasn't even shot with a stabilizer rig or anything.

01:37:55   That was just shot with my hands next to a--

01:37:58   - That doesn't make any sense to me.

01:37:59   I mean, it's amazing.

01:38:01   - Yeah, it's--

01:38:01   - It's a really, really great shot.

01:38:05   - Thank you.

01:38:05   I have really been having a ton of fun with these cameras,

01:38:09   not only with the 7 Plus and portrait mode

01:38:11   and all of that stuff, but even with video,

01:38:14   I think one of the things that people are discounting

01:38:18   is that the iPhone 7 with optical image stabilization

01:38:22   becomes pretty great for low light photography,

01:38:25   but becomes amazing for video all of a sudden.

01:38:28   Like the iPhone 7 is now a camera

01:38:30   that I feel as comfortable shooting with

01:38:33   as I did with my 6S Plus,

01:38:36   which prior to that, the 6S Plus was the only thing

01:38:38   I would use to film anything with,

01:38:39   because it looked too shaky

01:38:43   and it didn't have the same,

01:38:45   you know, the right temperature and color tone that I wanted because the OIS just, you know,

01:38:51   it wasn't there. All it had was digital image stabilization. And now that the 7 has that,

01:38:55   that's a huge step up for anybody who wants to shoot video. And then you combine that with the

01:39:01   f/1.8 aperture on the wide angle lens, and it means that you can shoot video in lower light

01:39:06   situations. It means that your slow-mo in lower light situations is going to look better. And

01:39:11   that's even that's even a almost a bigger deal. Because 240

01:39:15   unfortunately, their 240 frames per second slow motion is still

01:39:19   limited to 720p, which is kind of a bummer. I was kind of

01:39:22   hoping that they would bump up maybe, maybe we'd see 4k slow

01:39:25   motion this year, but it's you know, there's only so much only

01:39:30   so much you can do with a with a tiny, tiny sensors.

01:39:33   Well, 4k is a big jump. I just getting it is getting the 240

01:39:37   frames per second at 1080 would be

01:39:38   Oh, well, exactly, exactly. I was hoping that we saw everything move up slightly once, so maybe

01:39:43   we got 4K at like 60 frames per second, right? And then we got, we still have 1080 at 120 and

01:39:49   maybe 1080 at 240 would have been really nice to see. But even so, you can do 720p at 240 frames

01:39:59   per second now, and in a dark room, that used to be a non-starter. It was just, you know, I would

01:40:05   try and film, I used to do roller derby tests all the time for slow motion. And the 240 frames per

01:40:12   second option just was just no, it wouldn't work in a dart in any kind of like indoor practice

01:40:17   space. And now it's a legitimate option. It's still not great because it's 720p. But you can

01:40:22   actually you can use it without feeling like it's the worst thing that you've ever done in your life

01:40:27   with a camera. I mean, that's not exactly high phrase, but it's, there are some definite

01:40:34   advances that come with both OIS on the 7, but also that larger aperture on both the 7 and the

01:40:41   7 Plus. And the zoom feature, did you, you linked to Austin Mann's adventure in Rwanda.

01:40:47   If you watch that video, they shot that entire video on 7 Plus, which was kind of amazing to

01:40:57   sort of imagine. But on top of that, they did several times during the shoot, they had video

01:41:04   where they actually sort of jumped, not even a rack focus, but like, jumped from the 1x lens to

01:41:13   the 2x lens. And there's a little bit of software stutter in between the two, but overall it's a

01:41:19   really cool way to snap onto a subject and something that I wouldn't be surprised if we

01:41:26   we saw that got used more often in photography.

01:41:29   - Yeah, it's, it is, well, I'm trying not to talk it up

01:41:34   because I'm not gonna use a plus personally.

01:41:36   (laughing)

01:41:38   It hurts my heart to talk about.

01:41:39   - You don't wanna talk about portrait mode

01:41:41   and all that fun stuff? - I do, I do.

01:41:42   (laughing)

01:41:44   Gotta be a big boy.

01:41:45   If I'm gonna use the small phone, I've gotta face up to it.

01:41:49   No, but it does, it is one of those things

01:41:50   where I thought, oh, but this doesn't even work

01:41:52   midway through a video.

01:41:53   But it does, and it is pretty cool.

01:41:58   I do think-- sometimes with the camera stuff,

01:42:01   it's like when you get all nerdy and start

01:42:03   listing the technical specs.

01:42:06   Everybody knows megapixels.

01:42:08   I think it's finally gotten through to almost everybody

01:42:10   that megapixels is not a simple--

01:42:13   the bigger the number, the better.

01:42:15   Quantity versus quality.

01:42:16   And the factor's like noise, because you

01:42:21   You have more of these, you know, more light,

01:42:23   you know, having fewer pixels,

01:42:24   but having the pixels on the sensor be bigger

01:42:26   so they each soak up more light is actually way better

01:42:29   than having more pixels.

01:42:30   And even if your goal is to blow the picture up real big,

01:42:34   you'll get a better image.

01:42:35   Optical image stabilization is one of those things

01:42:39   where it just, you know,

01:42:40   everybody can kind of figure out what it means.

01:42:42   It's, you know, it's a very clear term

01:42:44   and, you know, like the illustration that Apple uses

01:42:46   where they show the little lens sort of bouncing on a,

01:42:49   you know, little suspended thing.

01:42:50   You get it, but the practical effects of it

01:42:53   are so dramatic, especially for video.

01:42:56   'Cause like on a still photography,

01:42:57   you don't really, you may not know

01:42:58   that optical image stabilization helped

01:43:00   because it just means you can get a clear picture

01:43:04   with less light, but you may not realize,

01:43:06   you don't have to realize that it is.

01:43:07   But with video, it really is a very clear difference.

01:43:11   In typical just consumer fashion,

01:43:14   like you're at the soccer game for your kid

01:43:19   and you're just holding the phone out in front of you

01:43:22   and panning it, or if you're walking, especially walking,

01:43:26   and even if you try to keep it stable,

01:43:29   the motion that you get without optical image stabilization

01:43:33   when you shoot video is really distracting visually.

01:43:38   It just looks unprofessional.

01:43:39   And the difference with OIS is so dramatic.

01:43:42   It's not like, oh, it really improves it a little bit.

01:43:45   it really does make it look like you've got a steady cam.

01:43:49   Like maybe you're not the world's best steady cam operator,

01:43:51   but it does look like your phone is, you know,

01:43:53   somehow floating through the air.

01:43:55   - It's really remarkable, both in the shots

01:43:59   that we did for the iPhone 7 review

01:44:00   and also the shots that I was having Rick help me with

01:44:03   for the Apple Watch review.

01:44:04   There were a couple of shots where, again,

01:44:06   he's free handing, walking backwards on a bike path

01:44:09   while I'm talking.

01:44:10   And I get the, I take the initial video of that

01:44:13   and put it into Final Cut Pro.

01:44:14   And I'm like, I'm going to click the stabilization button and then I actually watch the video

01:44:19   and I'm like, this doesn't even need stabilization.

01:44:21   That's ridiculous.

01:44:22   That's not fair.

01:44:25   We've come so far.

01:44:26   And especially, I remember the first time I got to play with a phone that had OAS, which

01:44:32   was the 6 Plus, I believe, was the first one.

01:44:35   Shooting video on the 6 Plus, specifically with Derby, and shooting video while being

01:44:43   on roller skates and shooting somebody on roller skates, despite the little tiny bumps

01:44:48   that happen when you're rolling on unpaved or badly paved concrete, it looked like I

01:44:54   was basically running a $700 rig.

01:44:57   And I remember two years before that when I actually had a Steadicam rig for the iPhone

01:45:03   4 that I had gotten from Steadicam as a review unit when they were trying to market Steadicam

01:45:11   for the iPhone and thinking this iPhone, this iPhone 6 Plus shoots better, more stable video

01:45:21   than the $200 steady cam rig that I was playing around with all those years ago. And that's crazy.

01:45:29   Dave: Being a dedicated 4.7 inch iPhone user, not liking the plus size, it bothered me a lot more

01:45:35   last year when the Plus got OIS for video than it did in the previous year

01:45:41   where the Plus did have optical image stabilization but only for stills.

01:45:46   It bothered me way less because I've, you know, shot enough low-light stuff, you know,

01:45:51   amateur style in my life where I know the tricks like resting the camera on a

01:45:57   table or something so that it's not just my hand, you know, in low light like ways

01:46:01   to keep the camera as still as possible to do that.

01:46:06   I'm not saying my little resting the camera on something

01:46:10   to hold it stable is as good as OIS,

01:46:11   but I felt like I could compensate for stills.

01:46:15   But for video, there's no way to simulate it.

01:46:19   It's a fantastic, fantastic feature.

01:46:21   I see people posting, I mean, I see people just posting,

01:46:25   just typical, not really thinking about it,

01:46:28   I've got my camera, I'm just gonna quick shoot a video

01:46:30   this weird thing I just saw in this, you know, here's a weird thing I saw on the sidewalk.

01:46:35   The video looks so much better stabilized.

01:46:37   Mm hmm. And well, and on top of that, you think about how iPhones have been used to

01:46:42   cover news breaking events, things like that. Yeah, you know, for someone to be able to

01:46:48   pull out a phone at a rally or, you know, God forbid watching somebody get hurt by another

01:46:53   member of society and be able to film that and have that that footage is now broadcast

01:46:58   It's 4K. That's pretty impressive.

01:47:01   The two biggest differences, I think, as consumer cameras have gotten to be so good at high-def video,

01:47:06   the two biggest differences between professional footage and amateur footage is stabilization and focal length.

01:47:13   Yeah, lenses.

01:47:14   And that's still where the Plus has the advantage where people, if somebody's shooting a breaking news event

01:47:19   but they can't get close for whatever reason, they can switch to 2X mode and get a dramatically different picture.

01:47:24   different picture. But when they do that, I don't think there is no OIS on the 2x mode, right?

01:47:29   Katie Grant No, there's no OIS on the telephoto. So it's a it's much shakier, both in, you know,

01:47:34   in still photo and video. But it is pretty remarkable. Like, you know, I've been playing

01:47:39   around a lot with the zoom. And digital zoom is still digital zoom, it's not going to, you know,

01:47:45   blow the doors down anything when you start shooting at five or 10x. But the fact remains

01:47:50   that you can now shoot at 5 and 10x both in still photographs and video.

01:47:58   And even though the video, again, you're going to have fuzzy video at like very fuzzy video

01:48:02   at 10x, but you're going to have the ability to focus on that like tiny thing that you're

01:48:08   zoomed into.

01:48:09   Whereas if you were just shooting at like 1x and then tried to blow it up artificially

01:48:13   later you were going to get a much fuzzy picture.

01:48:17   And being able to shoot at 10x, like I thought this was going to be complete garbage and

01:48:21   I was never going to use it.

01:48:23   And I'm still, you know, it's still not great.

01:48:26   But for things like we were just talking about, for things like news broadcasts or breaking,

01:48:31   you know, important things, you can get a legible picture at 10x.

01:48:36   It's not going to be a great picture.

01:48:37   It's not going to be a picture that I'd really want to put on the news.

01:48:40   But it is a legible picture.

01:48:41   You can see what's happening.

01:48:43   Yeah.

01:48:44   It's an impressive difference.

01:48:46   in the same way that before we had the second lens

01:48:49   that you could shoot at 2x and you knew it was digital,

01:48:51   but you know, and you couldn't get it exactly

01:48:54   'cause I didn't show you exactly,

01:48:55   but you know when you pinch that you're,

01:48:57   you're not really pushing your luck

01:48:59   with digital zoom too much.

01:49:01   You know, you could get closer to something

01:49:03   and it was usable, but now by starting

01:49:05   with that telephoto lens, it's really amazing.

01:49:09   - Yeah, it is.

01:49:10   I guess I should clarify on video,

01:49:12   you can only go up to 6x,

01:49:14   but it's equivalent to the framing of 10X

01:49:18   because video's pushed in.

01:49:20   - Cropped sensor, et cetera, et cetera.

01:49:22   So, portrait mode.

01:49:25   - Portrait mode.

01:49:26   - This is the part where I'm gonna start crying.

01:49:29   - Well, you got to play with it this weekend, right?

01:49:33   You were playing with it on your review unit?

01:49:35   - When did I put it on, Friday or Thursday?

01:49:37   I think it was last Thursday I did.

01:49:38   - I saw your Flickr photos of Jonas.

01:49:42   And some of them turned out great.

01:49:44   And it's sort of a no-lose situation by default,

01:49:47   because it shoots--

01:49:48   You got both.

01:49:50   It shows-- by default, you get both.

01:49:52   And so if it does something undesirable with your image

01:49:56   by blurring something that probably shouldn't have been

01:49:58   blurred or putting-- sometimes your heads look like there's

01:50:01   a halo around them.

01:50:03   Edge detection on hair is sometimes imperfect.

01:50:05   The worst case scenario is you just

01:50:07   delete the one with the depth effect,

01:50:09   you've still got the no, nothing fancy was applied. This is just the image you shot with

01:50:14   the camera picture. And it also the fact that it does both really does make it fun to compare

01:50:21   if you want to nerd out and try to figure out how the heck they're doing this.

01:50:25   Yep. And you're like, oh, which is which is blurred and how much is blurred. And it was

01:50:29   interesting because I did a ton of tests of this that my first thought as soon as it became

01:50:34   live is that the beta was the developer beta was I think live on.

01:50:38   or Wednesday because the public beta was live on Thursday.

01:50:43   And so when I downloaded it, my first thought was,

01:50:46   well, you know, Apple keeps joking

01:50:48   that it's gonna compete against it,

01:50:50   or that it looks, you know, at small scale at least,

01:50:53   indistinguishable from a DSLR, so I'm like,

01:50:55   well, let me just take my entry-level DSLR

01:50:57   and shoot comparison photos.

01:51:00   So I shot the same like 12 photos side by side,

01:51:03   one with a Canon Rebel XTi

01:51:05   with a 40 millimeter 2.8 portrait lens

01:51:09   and one with portrait mode on the 7 Plus.

01:51:12   And you know, it's not, I mean, it's still a DSLR

01:51:15   and it still has a much better sensor

01:51:17   and a much better, you know, mine isn't a full frame,

01:51:21   it's a cropped frame camera.

01:51:23   But you know, for comparing a $800 camera

01:51:27   to a $900 smartphone, the 7 Plus takes photos

01:51:33   that are in 50 to 60% of cases on this beta,

01:51:38   this number, you know, beta number one,

01:51:41   not even really available for public consumption

01:51:43   outside of the public beta program,

01:51:45   it takes photos that are up to a certain point

01:51:50   comparable to the DSLR,

01:51:51   which that is a little bit mind blowing.

01:51:54   And it's like, I've taken great photos on an iPhone before

01:51:57   and great photos that I've preferred

01:51:59   to a photo that my Canon shot.

01:52:01   but to not necessarily show up the cannon

01:52:06   in a 40 millimeter portrait,

01:52:08   but to play in the same ballpark as that,

01:52:10   to like go into a major league baseball game and be like,

01:52:13   "No, I'm not gonna bat 400,

01:52:15   but I'm still gonna hit some pitches

01:52:17   and I'm gonna maybe like get a double

01:52:18   or a triple every now and again,

01:52:19   like from a cell phone camera."

01:52:22   That blows my mind.

01:52:23   - It's a very Phil Schiller feature.

01:52:26   'Cause I know that Phil is a serious amateur

01:52:29   photography enthusiast.

01:52:31   and he really described it so fairly on stage

01:52:34   'cause he emphasized, he went over backwards to emphasize

01:52:37   that in no way, shape, or form does this feature

01:52:39   on the iPhone pose any threat to digital SLR

01:52:43   as in terms of genuine image quality.

01:52:46   - Yeah, it's not gonna replace your DSLR.

01:52:50   - But some of the shots that you get with this

01:52:52   are in this like heretofore uncharted territory

01:52:59   between what you get with these little tiny lenses

01:53:03   and sensors on phones and what you can get with an SLR.

01:53:07   Like, it isn't, side by side, the image quality is,

01:53:10   you know, not gonna, you know, the fake bokeh

01:53:12   isn't gonna compare to the real shallow depth of field

01:53:15   of a nice camera, but when you just look at the image,

01:53:18   it is, when it works, it's so much better

01:53:22   than the image you were gonna get without this effect.

01:53:24   - Oh yeah.

01:53:25   And when it works well, it's incredible.

01:53:29   And it's one of those things where,

01:53:31   I hate this phrase, but it's still relevant.

01:53:34   It's the whole best camera is the camera

01:53:35   that you have with you idea.

01:53:38   And it's like, the T4i is a wonderful camera.

01:53:41   And I definitely, like, I bring it along

01:53:44   when I'm going to things

01:53:46   where I want semi-professional photos,

01:53:48   like weddings or vacations,

01:53:50   things where I really wanna have beautiful memories,

01:53:53   and I want to be able to shoot some artsy photography.

01:53:58   And with the iPhone 7 Plus,

01:54:01   things I wouldn't bring it along to

01:54:02   are events like I went to yesterday

01:54:05   where Rick and I went to a corn maze

01:54:07   and picked out pumpkins.

01:54:08   And I'm like, I'm not gonna bring a fancy camera

01:54:11   to shoot pumpkins because, I don't know, it's not 2006.

01:54:16   This is not my life anymore.

01:54:19   But I shot a whole bunch of stuff on the 7 Plus,

01:54:23   looking through those photos, I'm like, these are not, again, these are not photos that are going to

01:54:27   beat the T4i if I had brought the T4i along, but I'm not regularly carrying my Rebel. My Rebel

01:54:34   doesn't fit into my back pocket and for me to be able to get photos that are like 75% the quality

01:54:41   of the Rebel and photos that I would feel comfortable even because they were in good

01:54:45   light blowing up to like a picture frame or something like that, like, that's pretty fantastic.

01:54:52   That's a really wonderful step forward for mobile photography.

01:54:55   The threshold for "do I want this heavy camera on a strap around my neck all afternoon"

01:55:01   is getting higher and higher. The bar is getting raised for just how much I care about the pictures

01:55:06   to do it. Yes, exactly. How many years are these pictures going to be in rotation? And

01:55:14   how big a size am I going to eventually want to blow them up?

01:55:18   I am so curious as to how long it's going to take for this dual camera system to trickle down to

01:55:26   the smaller size. Like is I, you know, is next year too soon? It might be because it's, you know,

01:55:32   like optical image stabilization took two years. Yeah, although of course when it came, it came for

01:55:40   both image and video, you know? That is true. So it's like less than two years behind. It's like,

01:55:45   you know, it caught up to where they were last year.

01:55:48   - Yeah, I think it's really gonna depend on

01:55:52   how the form factor changes, if at all, in the next iPhone.

01:55:56   Because, you know, there are, of course, rumors of

01:55:58   the idea of getting rid of the top and the bottom

01:56:00   of the bezel and making the iPhone a little bit smaller,

01:56:03   you know, squat-wise.

01:56:06   And while that would be awesome from a

01:56:09   holding a plus model perspective,

01:56:12   it does mean that you're taking away usable space

01:56:14   for things like sensors and battery and stuff along those lines. So that is going to be a big

01:56:21   question. If they change the form factor, are they still going to have enough space to add the double

01:56:27   lens camera on the 7? And if they do, are they going to have enough space to add stabilization

01:56:33   to the second lens on the plus? Because I think that's the no brainer next step feature. Or putting

01:56:40   in a bigger, the telephoto sensor also has a smaller sensor than the wide-angle lens.

01:56:46   And that's also something that's like damaging the photos a little bit, not a ton.

01:56:51   I think that one though is a factor of like, if you do the sideways drawing of the lens optics,

01:56:56   Yeah, it's impossible.

01:56:58   Yeah, I think it's actually impossible unless they made the bump stick out further. That there's sort

01:57:03   of like a max, like the sensor size is determined by, okay, if we make the lens, this is how big the

01:57:08   the lens will be circumference.

01:57:10   This is how thick the lens,

01:57:12   how far out we're gonna allow it to protrude on the bump.

01:57:15   Then you just draw these lines

01:57:17   and then that defines how big the sensor is.

01:57:19   So I think that the consternation that people had

01:57:22   about the sensor size of the telephoto thing was misplaced

01:57:26   because there's nothing that can be done about that.

01:57:29   - Yeah, it's physics.

01:57:30   There's really unfortunately--

01:57:31   - In the same way that if they put a wider angle lens,

01:57:34   like a fisheye lens, you could get an even bigger sensor

01:57:36   because it would, you know.

01:57:38   - Mm-hmm, because of the optics.

01:57:40   - Right.

01:57:41   - Yeah, absolutely.

01:57:42   - Oh, I asked that would be a huge win.

01:57:44   - Yeah.

01:57:44   - Why do you think that portrait mode is in beta?

01:57:48   It's better than I thought.

01:57:52   I thought it was gonna be like crashy.

01:57:54   It seems to me like the only problems it has

01:57:57   is that it still sometimes, you know,

01:58:00   fuzzes out the side of your head or something like that.

01:58:02   - Yeah, it's data.

01:58:03   I mean, here's my curiosity and my question,

01:58:08   is I wonder if they're using differential privacy

01:58:12   in the beta to gather anonymous information

01:58:17   about these photos to better figure out.

01:58:20   I don't know how they would, though.

01:58:22   I don't know how they would-- - Yeah, I don't think so

01:58:22   because I didn't have to opt into anything privacy-wise.

01:58:25   - No, you didn't. - It seems like it's all

01:58:27   just right there, you just had to opt in

01:58:28   to say I agree that this is a beta.

01:58:30   - Yeah, but I'm not sure if that's in the,

01:58:33   that's the thing I would think is that you use it as a beta so that you can have people,

01:58:39   you can not only have data to figure out how to make your detection better, but you can also

01:58:45   have people give feedback and say like, "Yo, this picture is great!" Except it blurred out half of

01:58:50   my hair. And this picture of an object is great except, you know, half of the object is out of

01:58:55   focus. And granted, you know, object detection is not officially supported in any way, shape,

01:59:01   perform. If you go by the official Apple line, the only thing you should use portrait mode for is

01:59:06   portraits. But of course, people like taking close up pictures of their pets and objects and things

01:59:12   like that. I saw a great photo of a pair of boots today.

01:59:16   I'm looking at that on your Twitter account as we speak. And it's a it is a perfect example of a

01:59:20   photo where I wouldn't want it. I'm not I'm not enough of a photo nerd. And without zooming in,

01:59:27   just looking at it at the natural size, if you wanted to Pepsi challenge me like, okay,

01:59:32   was this shot with portrait mode? Or was it shot with a $2,000 Canon SLR and a 50 millimeter prime

01:59:38   lens? I would not want to answer the question because I know I can't tell.

01:59:42   You can only really tell blowing it up to full screen resolution on my 5k iMac.

01:59:48   Right. And that's sort of, sort of one of the reasons that I think that this feature is going

01:59:55   is going to be so popular and it's so useful,

01:59:57   is that so much of the time we spend looking at photos

02:00:01   is on iPhones or other phone-sized screens.

02:00:05   And the difference between the fake depth effect

02:00:09   and the real optical depth effect of a better camera,

02:00:11   it's way harder, the smaller you make the picture,

02:00:14   the harder it is to tell the difference.

02:00:16   - Absolutely, and they're doing,

02:00:17   Apple is doing a really smart thing here

02:00:20   in terms of the levels of detection they're using,

02:00:24   the depth map that they're making, where I feel like Android, there have been Android phones that

02:00:30   have attempted to do a feature like this right now before and actually our friend friend of I'm more

02:00:37   and our Canadian editor Daniel Bader did a comparison between the Honor 8 camera and,

02:00:42   and the iPhone which because they both have dual lens systems and a fake bokeh kind of effect.

02:00:48   But the difference, the main difference is that not only is Apple using this in a pseudo telephoto portrait style lens,

02:00:57   but they're blurring, the blurs are soft, when it works well, the blurs are soft, gradual and intentional so that in the very far back of the picture, you've got it at sort of max Gaussian blur.

02:01:10   But if you get to like the second depth, so like the leaves, like I'm looking at one of the corn

02:01:16   pictures that I did, the leaves right behind my head are only slightly blurred when you compare

02:01:21   that to the blur at the very back of the corn field, which is much more blurred and almost to

02:01:27   the effect, almost to the extent where you'd get kind of the quote unquote bokeh style light

02:01:33   aberrations. Whereas stuff like the Honor 8 just does a flat blur and doesn't really try and make

02:01:40   a super depth map of it. Or maybe it tries to make a depth map, but it just fails utterly and just

02:01:45   ends up just doing a mass like, here's, here is the subject cut out of the picture. And then here

02:01:51   is just straight Gaussian blur. And that's, that was my fear when portrait mode launched is that it

02:01:56   was when it launched when it was announced was that it was going to just be that where it's just

02:02:01   going to be straight Gaussian blur, and then subject cut out. And they've really done something

02:02:05   much more refined with this. I guessed very wrong about how it was going to work. My initial guess

02:02:10   coming out of day one of the Apple event,

02:02:12   based on what they said was my guess was

02:02:14   what they were gonna do is use the two cameras

02:02:17   to create the depth map and use that to set focus point,

02:02:21   the focus point on the telephoto lens,

02:02:24   which would take the main image,

02:02:25   but that they would then take a second image

02:02:28   with the wide angle camera,

02:02:31   but at a focal length of like one inch,

02:02:34   so that it would blur everything,

02:02:37   everything would be blurry,

02:02:38   and then they would crop that, you know,

02:02:40   something like that, like,

02:02:41   so that you'd get actual optical blur from the,

02:02:44   but that's not how they're doing it at all.

02:02:45   That is not-- - No.

02:02:46   - And--

02:02:47   - But it might be in the future.

02:02:50   - I don't know, but it's this,

02:02:52   the reason my mind went that way

02:02:54   is I thought it would look better,

02:02:56   but this looks so much better than I thought it would

02:02:59   based on the fact that it's all in software,

02:03:01   from a, you know, with all the imagery

02:03:05   coming from the one lens.

02:03:07   - Oh yeah, there's, I mean, some of these images I look at

02:03:10   and like this, the ISP was able to give this to me

02:03:14   in under a second, like this didn't take five minutes

02:03:17   of rendering to put together.

02:03:19   - And it's, you know, they're doing it live.

02:03:21   I mean, it's so fast that the preview is live,

02:03:23   but I wonder if that is one of the reasons

02:03:26   they're calling it beta, because the frame rate

02:03:28   on the live preview, it's, I don't know,

02:03:30   I'm complaining about this thing that a couple of years ago

02:03:33   would have taken like 30 seconds to render in Photoshop.

02:03:35   you know, you'd have like a progress bar showing you how close it is.

02:03:40   And now I'm getting it as a live preview and I'm complaining about how slow it is because

02:03:44   the frame rate looks to me like it's somewhere in the 20s.

02:03:49   It's clearly under 30 frames per second though.

02:03:52   Yeah, it's definitely, I would say looking at it side to side, it's probably 24s.

02:04:01   But maybe it's not even, it's not stat, you know, maybe it varies given the complexity

02:04:05   of the picture.

02:04:07   And I've definitely seen it stutter when it's trying to figure out more complex depth maps.

02:04:13   Even in times when the actual picture ends up coming out really well, like a picture

02:04:18   of pumpkins I took, the original depth map that it was previewing for me had like half

02:04:23   of the pumpkins blurred.

02:04:25   And I've learned kind of to trust that the ISP knows what it's doing and even if the

02:04:29   preview isn't correct, it's probably going to look better.

02:04:32   It really must have killed the product team that this didn't, wasn't able to ship in the first

02:04:38   version just because all of our initial reviews didn't, all we ever made.

02:04:43   Didn't include it, yeah.

02:04:44   All we could mention about portrait mode is that, you know, this is a feature that's coming in and

02:04:49   it's software update. But it is super compelling in my opinion.

02:04:53   Better to get it right than to ship it early and have it be not great.

02:04:57   Right.

02:04:58   And it's like, it's not bad right now.

02:05:00   It's very promising for beta one.

02:05:03   But I'm glad that they're starting it as a beta

02:05:06   rather than shipping it unfinished

02:05:08   or shipping it kind of with half hazard edge detection.

02:05:12   I just don't know how they're gathering data to fix it

02:05:14   while it's in the beta.

02:05:16   - I don't know either.

02:05:17   And I've definitely noticed,

02:05:18   and I don't know how much this is factoring

02:05:20   into the beta description.

02:05:22   Like you said, it definitely wants you

02:05:24   to take a picture of a person

02:05:26   because it's doing this facial recognition

02:05:29   to get the focus point and depth map.

02:05:31   And when I've tried to use it to shoot inanimate objects,

02:05:34   the results are, it's harder,

02:05:37   it often refuses to even engage depth mode.

02:05:40   And then even when it does, it's all messed,

02:05:44   sometimes all messed up in terms of what it chooses to blur.

02:05:47   - Have you manually, have you used the manual focus point?

02:05:50   - By tapping the screen?

02:05:52   - Yeah.

02:05:54   - Yeah, but it doesn't work.

02:05:56   Sometimes it doesn't help.

02:05:58   So for some reason, it'll focus on that point.

02:06:00   It's not that it doesn't focus,

02:06:02   but it isn't able to do the depth map.

02:06:04   - To do the, yeah, to do the blur properly.

02:06:07   - So for, you know, probably most people listening

02:06:11   either don't already have a seven plus in their hands,

02:06:14   and even if they do, they may not be foolish enough

02:06:16   to be running a developer beta on it.

02:06:18   So by the time most people listen to this,

02:06:20   they won't have used it firsthand.

02:06:23   thing is it's it's very much like the HDR indicator so when you're you know

02:06:29   before you even snap the photo if you have HDR on it'll it'll the HDR

02:06:34   indicator turns bright yellow so you know you're getting an H HDR is on like

02:06:38   if you have a VR set to auto so when you when you're shooting in portrait mode

02:06:43   you know whether it sees whether it's going to shoot with the mode or not

02:06:48   because it actually turns yellow with a yellow background and says depth effect

02:06:51   And if it does, if you don't see that,

02:06:54   you're not going to get,

02:06:55   you're definitely not gonna get the depth effect.

02:06:58   So you don't even have to judge it

02:07:00   based on the live preview to see

02:07:02   if you see the fuzzy background or whatever.

02:07:05   If you don't see that yellow indicator of depth effect,

02:07:07   it doesn't, it's confused by what's in the frame

02:07:10   and hasn't yet done it.

02:07:12   And with inanimate objects,

02:07:13   it definitely can take a lot longer than with humans.

02:07:16   - Absolutely. - With humans,

02:07:17   with humans, you really can just sorta put it in that mode,

02:07:21   frame it, shoot, and trust that it's going to use depth effect.

02:07:24   Yeah.

02:07:25   It's not too bad with pets.

02:07:26   It works pretty quickly.

02:07:27   You answered my question.

02:07:28   My question was, because of the vague similarities, you know, eyes and a round head, does it seem

02:07:34   to do better with pets than, say, you know, bottles or shoes?

02:07:39   Yeah.

02:07:40   Oh, yeah.

02:07:41   It has a lot of problems with anything that's semi-reflective.

02:07:44   So iPhones, it doesn't have a huge success rate with right now, especially jet black

02:07:49   iPhones or I tried to take a picture of a whiskey bottle that I put in my DSLR comparison and it was

02:07:56   like half blur and half whiskey bottle and then the label was blurred out. So, it has problems

02:08:01   with writing and it has problems with reflection, but pets seem to, it seems to treat pets pretty

02:08:07   well. I've gotten some really, really spectacular pictures of my dogs with this mode engaged.

02:08:15   And even I was taking pictures today out on a walk with one of the dogs. So this was motion

02:08:22   portrait mode. And even like while my dog was moving, it managed to get a pretty good

02:08:29   picture. Granted, I've only looked at it on the preview in photos, so I could go back and look

02:08:35   at it now and it could be awful. But to my recollection, it actually looked pretty great.

02:08:40   - Great.

02:08:41   - Yeah, I shot a whiskey bottle actually for a friend

02:08:47   'cause it was somebody who was looking for a recommendation

02:08:49   and it came out amazing, I think.

02:08:53   Here, I'll send it to you now.

02:08:55   Let's hope I'm sending it to the right person.

02:08:57   (Bridget laughs)

02:08:59   Nope, that's my dad.

02:09:00   (both laugh)

02:09:01   - Close enough.

02:09:02   - No, but it definitely took some time

02:09:07   with the playing with manual focus

02:09:08   to get the depth effect indicator to come on.

02:09:12   - Yeah, you have to take a little while

02:09:16   and then even when the depth effect indicator comes on,

02:09:18   it may not always work.

02:09:19   I feel like with objects and with non-human subjects,

02:09:26   there's one of two things that happens.

02:09:28   It's either it blurs out too much stuff

02:09:31   and it goes too much into the actual object

02:09:35   or it creates this very fine cut around the subject. And if you zoom in, you can see like,

02:09:43   maybe like a millimeter, half a millimeter of fuzz of the pre-blurred background. But when

02:09:52   you're looking at it, you know, in just on an iPhone screen, you can't really tell.

02:09:57   Yeah.

02:10:00   I also-- and this whiskey bottle shot that I sent you

02:10:03   is one more example of it to me, where it seems to me like--

02:10:09   and again, maybe I'm getting a placebo effect here

02:10:15   because I'm seeing what I want to see.

02:10:16   But I think so far-- and this is something

02:10:19   I've only noticed after I wrote my initial review--

02:10:22   but it seems to me like the noise you get from the iPhone

02:10:24   and seven cameras is a more pleasant noise.

02:10:29   - Oh, especially on the telephoto.

02:10:31   - Yeah, and this whiskey bottle shot I sent you to me.

02:10:34   And it's sort of, I used to have this camera

02:10:37   from years ago, I used it so much that it actually,

02:10:40   I used it until it wore out and it broke.

02:10:43   Like the digital camera, it just doesn't work right anymore.

02:10:46   It was called a Rico, it was from Rico, it was a Rico GRD.

02:10:50   And Rico is sort of an obscure, everybody knows him

02:10:54   It's like a photocopier company.

02:10:55   They don't have a big presence in North America.

02:10:58   And when I bought the Ricoh GRD,

02:10:59   I think it was like 2006 or so,

02:11:02   it was like a point and shoot

02:11:03   with a fixed 28 millimeter F 1.8 lens,

02:11:08   or maybe it was a 2.0 lens,

02:11:10   but a very, very fast lens,

02:11:11   especially for 2005, 2006 point and shoot.

02:11:14   And I had to buy it on the gray market

02:11:17   'cause they didn't actually sell it in North America.

02:11:20   But it was probably one of my favorite,

02:11:23   probably my very favorite camera camera

02:11:25   that I've ever owned in my life.

02:11:26   In fact, I wouldn't hesitate.

02:11:27   Just as a camera, I took more great photos

02:11:32   with that camera because it was small.

02:11:34   But one of the things Ricoh, and it made me buy it,

02:11:36   was that Ricoh had this reputation

02:11:38   that their digital image processing

02:11:44   created more film-like noise, right?

02:11:47   Noise is, with small digital cameras, noise is inevitable.

02:11:50   There's no way to get around it.

02:11:52   the combination of the size of the sensor

02:11:54   and the size of the lens, you're gonna have noise.

02:11:57   But that, some of the shots I shot over the years

02:12:00   with the Ricoh really, to me, looked like vivid film prints,

02:12:04   but like, you know, ISO 400 or ISO 800 film prints,

02:12:07   where, you know, there is no, there's definite film grain,

02:12:10   but it's just pleasant to look at.

02:12:14   I think the iPhone 7 cameras have that sort of effect

02:12:17   that they've, and I think it's to their credit,

02:12:20   where maybe I think if we wanted to knock the iPhone 6

02:12:23   and 6s cameras, that maybe they went too far

02:12:26   trying to reduce noise, and that the noise reduction,

02:12:29   the bad effects of noise reduction

02:12:31   were a little bit too visible.

02:12:33   - They try and smooth it a lot, and that's something,

02:12:35   I mean, I see that, I'm sending you a couple pictures,

02:12:38   trading of a couple of low light pictures especially.

02:12:42   I'm still seeing that sort of smoothing process happening

02:12:46   on the wide angle lens and on sort of brighter,

02:12:51   brighter facial tones when you're shooting indoors.

02:12:55   But these dark shadows, I think the iPhone 7

02:12:58   and 7 Plus cameras are doing so much better on.

02:13:01   Whereas prior, you kinda got just either like a flat,

02:13:05   like very, very variegated blur on people's faces.

02:13:10   I can't describe the smoothing exactly,

02:13:12   but it feels very digital.

02:13:14   that feels very, not tacky as in a bad thing,

02:13:17   but tacky as in almost sticky, almost in a weird.

02:13:21   - The picture you sent me of Rick is a great example.

02:13:23   Nobody's gonna call this your best picture of Rick,

02:13:25   but it is, but it doesn't, it has a character to it

02:13:30   that you just never would have thought

02:13:31   came from a phone camera.

02:13:32   - Exactly, the soft blur on that is beautiful.

02:13:35   - And you end up with, yeah, and I'm looking at the noise,

02:13:38   it's in your, is that your kitchen?

02:13:40   I don't know, but there's--

02:13:41   - Yeah, that's my kitchen.

02:13:42   - It's obviously at night, and there's dark shadows

02:13:44   underneath the cabinets and there's not really noise

02:13:47   underneath them.

02:13:48   It's really, really effective.

02:13:49   - Yeah, I'm really looking forward to,

02:13:52   especially one of the sort of downsides

02:13:56   to the telephoto lens is of course,

02:13:59   because it doesn't have OAS

02:14:00   and because it's a 2.8 aperture,

02:14:05   on the normal photo mode,

02:14:06   if you try and shoot in a low light situation,

02:14:09   it automatically defaults to the wide angle lens,

02:14:12   zoomed in at 2X, but it doesn't do that with portrait mode.

02:14:16   So you can actually use portrait mode,

02:14:18   even if you're not using the depth effect,

02:14:20   to shoot low light portraits with that telephoto lens.

02:14:23   And I really do think that the telephoto

02:14:25   has a much nicer grain, maybe because of the fact

02:14:29   that the aperture is a little bit higher

02:14:32   and the light received to that sensor

02:14:35   is a little bit different.

02:14:36   But it really does produce these really beautiful,

02:14:39   maybe it's just the framing,

02:14:40   But it produces these really beautiful, almost film-like images, and I like that.

02:14:45   I love that texture.

02:14:47   Yeah.

02:14:48   And some people would complain, like one of my Rico nerdery, the counter argument was, you shouldn't be trying to simulate film, you know, be pure to digital.

02:14:57   And I think that's nonsense.

02:14:59   I think you should be trying, you know, that the engineer...

02:15:01   You want a good image.

02:15:02   Right.

02:15:03   The engineer should be optimizing for pleasantness.

02:15:05   And whether that means simulating film or not, it doesn't matter.

02:15:09   Does this look, is this more pleasing to your eye?

02:15:13   And if the answer is yes, then do it,

02:15:14   whether it's legitimately digital or fake analog,

02:15:17   you know, don't worry about it.

02:15:18   - Exactly. - Don't overthink it.

02:15:20   - Looking at that whiskey bottle you sent me,

02:15:22   like the, yes, the blur is artificial,

02:15:24   and the blur is Gaussian, and I know a lot of people

02:15:27   are throwing their hands up and just being like,

02:15:28   well, it doesn't look like an optical blur,

02:15:31   it looks so fake.

02:15:32   I'm like, yeah, but the picture of the whiskey bottle

02:15:35   with the artificial blur looks about 100 times better

02:15:39   the whiskey bottle without the artificial blur.

02:15:41   - It's actually not a Gaussian blur.

02:15:43   I don't know if you saw this. - Is it not?

02:15:45   - Matthew Panzareno, friend of the show,

02:15:47   frequent guest, he got the scoop on this.

02:15:51   He got two days pre-release access to the beta software,

02:15:56   and had a really great article at TechCrunch on this thing.

02:15:59   And he had written that it was a Gaussian blur

02:16:01   'cause somebody at Apple in product marketing,

02:16:04   that's what they told him. - Told him that.

02:16:05   - That's what they told him.

02:16:06   But then somebody who worked on the code

02:16:08   was like, "Oh no, no." And then it was like this whole hassle of like somewhere within Apple,

02:16:13   somebody who had worked on the code wanted it to be known that, "No, we're not just doing a

02:16:18   Gaussian blur." I forget the term, but it's like they've created their own custom disc blur.

02:16:23   Okay. Well, so I got my information from Matt's original review. So now that's very interesting.

02:16:30   I can believe that. Yeah.

02:16:31   If you reload it, he's got like an update at that section.

02:16:34   An asterisk.

02:16:34   But it does make some amount of sense where that it's a disc blur that because that's sort of the bokeh effect

02:16:40   Uh, yeah

02:16:41   Well, it gets you it gets you closer to that that light effect that lighting effect that people associate with the the sort of bokeh

02:16:48   look

02:16:50   um

02:16:51   One of the few things I do know about photography is that the effect of actual bokeh?

02:16:57   It matters. Um

02:16:59   What shape

02:17:02   the

02:17:02   Iris, what's the iris that the camera called the

02:17:05   In terms of the lens yeah the thing that opens in front of the lens

02:17:10   The little disk thing that opens in a search the shutter

02:17:13   Yeah, the shutter the shape of the shutter

02:17:16   Always depends on how it

02:17:19   Yeah, and a less expensive camera will have fewer parts to the shutter because it's cheaper, right?

02:17:26   It's cheaper to make a five-sided thing whereas a more expensive camera has more parts

02:17:30   and so therefore it's more, it's closer to a sphere as it opens.

02:17:33   Interesting.

02:17:35   And so a more expensive, so just looking at like Canon's 50 millimeter lenses,

02:17:40   you get better bokeh out of the more expensive ones. One of the reasons why is the glass is

02:17:45   better, but number two, because the shutter has more elements, it actually creates more

02:17:49   of a spherical bokeh effect. That makes a lot of sense.

02:17:53   So it makes sense to me that their blur is a disc blur.

02:17:56   Yeah, to try and emulate, well, and also, the pictures that I just sent you are from my DSLR

02:18:02   comparison, and the top one is the iPhone 7 Plus, and the bottom is the Canon XTi. And you can

02:18:09   definitely see the difference in sort of that lighting effect between subject and then the

02:18:16   light coming through the trees in terms of how that lens operates. So that is something I didn't

02:18:21   know about the shape of the shutter and how much, and that actually makes a ton of sense, because

02:18:25   you're dealing with a much smaller, by nature, kind of has to be less complex camera because

02:18:32   there's really only so much space you can fit inside there. And so concludes the half hour

02:18:40   segment of the talk show where I talk about the camera I won't have in my pocket for the next year.

02:18:45   It's okay. I mean, it's about the price of a DSLR so you could always buy an iPhone just to shoot

02:18:53   with it. Yeah, I know say I just as a final point of the show that it I spent almost a

02:18:59   full two weeks with the plus as my soul camera practically speaking and loved the loved the

02:19:07   camera especially love the portrait mode and hated everything else and everything else

02:19:13   everything else I really I really just just dislike the size I use my phone too much one

02:19:19   hand to use the plus. And so I'm convinced that my love for the dual camera system aside,

02:19:27   it still doesn't outweigh the benefits to me, just the hand feel and pocket feel of

02:19:33   the smaller one.

02:19:34   Yeah, the large one for me is definitely a trade off for the camera. And it pains my

02:19:39   soul because I really love the Jet Black iPhone 7. It is so comfortable. It's the reason why

02:19:46   there's a Sena case on that one and not on the plus yet.

02:19:50   - I realize, and I do realize, so my advice to people though

02:19:53   is if you can vaguely tolerate, even just,

02:19:55   yeah, I don't really love it, but I can tolerate the plus,

02:19:58   get the plus because it is amazing.

02:20:00   And for the first time, like in previous years,

02:20:03   I definitely reviewed the plus

02:20:05   and I spent a couple days with it,

02:20:07   but it was so clear to me that I didn't want it,

02:20:09   that I spent most of my time

02:20:10   with the one I figured I'd use.

02:20:12   Whereas this was the first year

02:20:13   where I spent like two solid weeks living with it

02:20:16   It is my day-to-day phone.

02:20:17   And the battery life difference really--

02:20:19   Oh, it's shocking.

02:20:21   It's almost comical.

02:20:22   There was one night where I literally forgot to charge my phone overnight

02:20:25   because I was so back and forth between two phones,

02:20:28   and I just left it downstairs.

02:20:30   And it still had 44% battery life.

02:20:33   It was like--

02:20:33   Yeah, what's your iPhone 7 battery at right now?

02:20:37   I don't have the percentage on.

02:20:38   And I actually was plugging it in while we recorded.

02:20:40   Oh, OK.

02:20:42   Well, then never mind.

02:20:43   Last night, though, it got down to--

02:20:45   It got down to the red before I went to the red.

02:20:48   - I mean, the iPhone 7's battery is certainly much better

02:20:50   than the 6S, so even if you're upgrading from 4.7 inch

02:20:54   to 4.7 inch, you're gonna see a good upgrade.

02:20:57   But oh man, the Plus's battery life, I mean,

02:21:00   when I switched back to the 6S from the 6S Plus last year,

02:21:06   I pretty much had an Apple battery case on that thing

02:21:10   pretty much constantly after the Apple battery case

02:21:13   released because I'm just like, well, this is easy because it has the lightning connector so I can

02:21:17   plug it into all my lightning things. And it basically gives me the battery life of the plus.

02:21:21   But now I get to have the battery life of the of that kind of an iPhone, but I get to carry it

02:21:27   without a case and I get to enjoy the jet black finish. That probably would not happen if I had

02:21:33   an iPhone 7. I'd probably just put it back in the battery case. I like my battery.

02:21:40   I I've you know, the battery life on the iPhone 7 is fine and it does seem if anything a little

02:21:49   bit better I think in real life than success for me but it's nothing compared to the plus

02:21:53   the plus is like it really is like having a battery case on your phone and I you know,

02:21:58   I'm not saying anything everybody doesn't know or that the advertised specs don't indicate but

02:22:03   it's like you could just use the hell out of it and and not even worry about a charge. Mm-hmm

02:22:08   So anyway, that's my take.

02:22:10   Anything else you wanted to cover before we wrap things up?

02:22:13   - Oh gosh, I feel like we could talk Apple Watch,

02:22:17   but there's so much.

02:22:18   - Yeah, I don't have a lot to say about it

02:22:22   because it's not that different from,

02:22:23   as you call it, I love the Series Zero.

02:22:28   I love it.

02:22:29   But it's, you know, a Series Zero that's updated

02:22:32   to watch OS 3 is, you know, it's got almost everything.

02:22:37   The brighter screen though is enough for me because it really is the difference between

02:22:42   being unreadable and yeah, I can read it in bright sunlight.

02:22:45   Yeah, the brighter screen is pretty nice.

02:22:48   It's especially nice for me because, and this is kind of my big thing, is that I had a 38

02:22:54   millimeter series zero and I don't know how many people who listen to your show struggled

02:22:59   with the 38 millimeter all for the last 17, 18 months, but the 38 millimeter has abhorrent

02:23:07   battery life. I mean, it was made with pretty much the bare minimum, you know, the bare minimum

02:23:14   acceptability standards, I think, because I would use that watch, you know, one two-hour workout,

02:23:21   and that watch would be down to like 40%, and it would die around 6, 7 p.m. for me. And I would,

02:23:27   you know, like, I figured out ways to make it work, where I would like charge it while I was

02:23:32   showering and thankfully like quick charge would work but it was it was such a pain.

02:23:36   Yeah. Especially frustrating. I think if you didn't use workout maybe not but anybody who

02:23:42   used the workout featured I've heard that. I mean it's same thing with Amy. Joanna Stern was on the

02:23:47   show a while back and you know it was a big part of her review. Yeah. 38 millimeters combined with

02:23:52   workout was you actually kind of need to figure out a way to sneak a charge in during the day.

02:23:58   Yeah, which is really unfortunate.

02:24:00   And is that better with Series 2?

02:24:02   Night and day. It's actually incredible because one of my big fears when they announced,

02:24:08   they were talking Series 2 and they mentioned nothing about the battery, but they did say GPS

02:24:14   and they said brighter screen and they said faster processor. And those three things to me said,

02:24:20   "Oh great, the Series 2 38 millimeter is going to have the same if not worse battery life,

02:24:26   and I'm gonna be really unhappy.

02:24:29   And then I talked to an Apple spokesperson at the event

02:24:33   and they're like, actually,

02:24:34   there is a slightly bigger battery in the 38 millimeter,

02:24:36   we're just not advertising it.

02:24:38   And actual use case has been incredible.

02:24:43   Like to the fact where I was doing a two hour workouts,

02:24:47   like I would do a 30 minute workout in the morning

02:24:50   just doing an outdoor walk with my dogs.

02:24:53   And then I would go, I would use it throughout the day,

02:24:55   I would use Siri, I would use directions,

02:24:58   I would even pull up Offy a couple of times

02:25:00   to do my two-factor authentication.

02:25:02   I had my screen on the brightest setting,

02:25:04   and then I'd go and play roller derby for two hours.

02:25:07   And I'd come back and take a shower with the thing on

02:25:10   and look, and my battery was still 20% at the end of the day.

02:25:14   And that has never happened to me

02:25:16   in the history of Apple Watch.

02:25:17   And especially, it was extremely noticeable.

02:25:20   I wore three watches on my wrists

02:25:23   for about 48 hours straight,

02:25:25   where I had a series two, a series one, and a series zero.

02:25:29   Just to test all the same things.

02:25:31   - Did you go out in public like that?

02:25:33   - I did, but I had long sleeves.

02:25:34   The only time people actually saw it

02:25:38   was when I was playing derby,

02:25:39   and I got a little bit of grief there, a little bit of shit.

02:25:42   - You look like such, you're actually doing actual work

02:25:46   that is practically, you know,

02:25:47   has practical effects for your readers,

02:25:49   but you just look like such a jerk.

02:25:50   - Oh, I look ridiculous.

02:25:52   I look like a jackass, yeah.

02:25:53   So I tried to hide it as much as possible,

02:25:56   but I did, I got some valuable information

02:25:59   on 38 millimeter battery tests, and that's, I don't know.

02:26:03   I mean, maybe it's entirely possible.

02:26:05   - Did I miss it or did you not publish your--

02:26:07   - That's tomorrow, it's coming tomorrow, yeah.

02:26:09   - Thank goodness, 'cause that would have been terrible.

02:26:11   All right, well, the show will probably come out tomorrow,

02:26:14   so we will-- - There we go, yeah.

02:26:15   I'll send you the link.

02:26:17   - Try to get it in the show notes.

02:26:18   That is good to hear, though,

02:26:23   And I feel like that's very practical.

02:26:24   I think one thing too is if I hear faster CPU and I'm still thinking like in the old

02:26:29   days where, well, the faster the CPU, the more power it's going to consume.

02:26:33   Whereas I think especially on a wearable, it's actually the opposite where…

02:26:37   Yeah, more efficiency.

02:26:39   Right, because you're looking at the screen less because you're not waiting as long.

02:26:44   And it's the screen that's burning way more power than the CPU.

02:26:48   So if you can raise your wrist, see what you want to see, and lower your wrist, it's actually

02:26:53   a win on battery life.

02:26:55   Oh yeah.

02:26:56   You know, I never used raise to wake for series zero because I thought it was going to just

02:27:01   kill my battery life because I do enough gesticulating with my hands that to have the screen randomly

02:27:07   turn on and off, I'm like, "That's just going to drain my battery."

02:27:10   And I kept it on the lowest brightness setting for an entire, I don't know, 16, 17 months

02:27:15   I just when it was on its brightest battery setting and raised to wake, I couldn't get past

02:27:20   3pm with the with the watch. So to be able to actually use the brightest battery setting or

02:27:26   brightest setting, you know, I've I'm looking at my watch right now it's at 60% at 540pm Eastern

02:27:33   time after having gone on an hour and 30 minute walk with GPS enabled on a 38 millimeter watch.

02:27:41   I'm 94% but I haven't I didn't I did not leave the house today. You're like I've done nothing

02:27:46   Yeah battery life the brighter screen is a huge win for me

02:27:52   I would look forward to your review, but I just don't have much more to say than what I've already written

02:27:57   It's it's way more about the OS than than the watch even though yeah

02:28:00   I have those good things to say about the new watch hardware. It's it's clearly way more about the software

02:28:06   Yeah, watch OS 3 basically redirected the Apple watch to a much

02:28:10   Smarter place and I don't think the series zero is garbage anymore. You know, it's still it's still quite usable, especially with watch OS 3

02:28:17   It's just if you're a 30 mate

02:28:19   38 millimeter user

02:28:21   Series 2 is is

02:28:23   The the magic salve that you've been looking for for your Apple watch. It just it makes it usable. Yep

02:28:29   Well, that's good to hear. I will put a link to that in everybody can get

02:28:33   All this or any Caldwell they want on Twitter

02:28:38   Her username is Saturn se TT ER n

02:28:41   And and Oliver work at I'm or anything else we wanted to give a shout out to before we pull the plug. Oh gosh

02:28:49   Other than the Apple watch review not not too much. Thank you for having me John this always fun as always always good to have you

02:28:56   I wanted somebody who I knew has used all this new stuff. How about the air pods? We haven't talked about then

02:29:00   Did you guys oh man units? Yes, so Renee Renee

02:29:04   officially got the AirPods, so I only got to play with them in New York and he's been playing with

02:29:08   them for the last two weeks. But the two days that I played with them, I really liked them.

02:29:13   They still don't quite fit in my ears, but my ears have never liked air – like, I feel like I'm

02:29:20   probably of the minority there. My ears just have a tendency – they're very small, so they have a

02:29:26   tendency to like, spit out in ear pods where they just don't – they're just like, "No." So it

02:29:31   wasn't a – sorry?

02:29:33   It's just interesting to me that the AirPods haven't shipped yet. They're at least a couple weeks away

02:29:37   But the Beats one of the Beats ones that uses the w1 is already shipping so you could like oh, yeah people have already bought it

02:29:43   Yeah, you can you can start and you can start to play with the with the nifty

02:29:48   Apple pairing which I know that that's pretty cool. I use them so exclusively that I didn't even realize a

02:29:56   10.0 point two just came out and it fixes a weird bug where the

02:30:02   lightning headphones lose the ability to play pause.

02:30:06   - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:30:07   I didn't catch that 'cause I don't use--

02:30:10   - I didn't catch it 'cause I think I've,

02:30:12   I think I put my lightning ear pods in like for 30 seconds.

02:30:16   Yep, they work.

02:30:17   Yep, they sound the same back in the box.

02:30:19   - Yep, it's like, okay, just simple checks.

02:30:22   Yeah, I switched, I really haven't used anything

02:30:25   but Bluetooth headphones for the last six or seven months

02:30:28   and I'm okay with it. - I can't wait for these,

02:30:30   I can't wait for these AirPods to ship

02:30:32   and for everybody to have them.

02:30:33   They're my favorite thing of the year.

02:30:34   - Yeah, I am gonna look into trying to,

02:30:37   someone suggested putting Sugaru on the outsides

02:30:40   to make them a little bit more pleasurably fitting

02:30:43   to people with weird ears, and I'm like,

02:30:45   I might try that, because I really love

02:30:47   the concept of AirPods, and I think that even,

02:30:50   especially on ladies, actually,

02:30:52   I think they actually look pretty good in,

02:30:54   because they almost look like earrings, in a way.

02:30:56   Like, especially from far away.

02:30:58   You can't, it doesn't, my biggest fear was,

02:31:01   oh my god, I'm gonna look like an obnoxious,

02:31:03   like GPS, Bluetooth-like earpiece circa 2001.

02:31:08   And they, you know, I'm not gonna say

02:31:12   they're the most artistically designed things

02:31:14   in the world in terms of like fashion forward,

02:31:17   but they do look much better

02:31:18   than I thought they were going to.

02:31:19   And I feel like the way that you can move them

02:31:21   in your ears to kind of tilt the end of the AirPod

02:31:26   and the microphone kinda up or down

02:31:28   is really, it looks good.

02:31:30   And the vocalization, especially when summoning Siri

02:31:33   is super impressive in terms of how low you can speak

02:31:36   and still have Siri get your every word.

02:31:38   It works, Siri, in the three days I used the AirPods,

02:31:42   Siri worked better for me on the AirPods

02:31:44   than she's ever worked for me on the watch,

02:31:47   on the phone, or in the car.

02:31:49   - Interesting.

02:31:50   I've dictated some pretty complicated texts

02:31:53   while you're wearing them or walking around the city

02:31:56   and it's pretty good.

02:31:59   - Yeah, I'm really impressed.

02:32:00   - I will say this too, as one last comment,

02:32:02   is wearing them now, and it is the, by far and away,

02:32:06   I think it breaks the record of Apple Watch,

02:32:08   of the Apple product that I've had pre-release access to

02:32:14   that has generated random people on the streets

02:32:16   and stores of Philadelphia to ask me, is that blank?

02:32:20   Like, way back in 2007, there were a lot of people

02:32:24   who asked me, I didn't have a pre-release iPhone then,

02:32:27   but I bought one on day one.

02:32:28   - But no one else did.

02:32:30   - Right, and people would say, "Is that an iPhone?

02:32:32   "Is that the iPhone?"

02:32:33   And in the Apple Watch two years ago,

02:32:36   there was a lot of people,

02:32:37   especially when I'd use the Apple Pay,

02:32:39   the clerk at Whole Foods was the first place

02:32:42   that we had that supported it.

02:32:43   Every single time I did it, they'd be like,

02:32:46   "Oh my God, did you just pay with your watch?"

02:32:48   That's amazing.

02:32:49   But with these headphones, it breaks the record.

02:32:53   it's almost like I don't want to wear them out

02:32:55   because people just stop me and say,

02:32:56   "Oh my God, are those the Apple things?"

02:32:59   And I say yes, and they're like, "How do you have that?"

02:33:01   And it's like, I always just say, "It's a long story."

02:33:05   - Yeah, you gotta-- - But they're like,

02:33:05   "Do you like them?"

02:33:07   And I say, "I love them.

02:33:08   "I cannot wait for everybody else to have them."

02:33:10   But everybody, it's amazing to me just as a sign

02:33:13   of how much awareness regular people have.

02:33:16   Just people running the register at the Acme supermarket

02:33:21   are totally aware of the fact that Apple has made,

02:33:23   is coming out with these wireless ear pods.

02:33:27   - Yeah, well, it's funny to me,

02:33:29   I don't really watch a lot of local news very much anymore.

02:33:34   And I remember last year during the quote unquote

02:33:39   tattoo gate story, where I, you know,

02:33:43   I had, I happened to have a person who was tattooed

02:33:45   that I used to like do tests on with the Apple Watch

02:33:49   to make sure that the Apple Watch worked with tattoos.

02:33:51   And then 24 hours later,

02:33:53   because we were staying at my parents at the time,

02:33:55   that was on local news.

02:33:57   And that was on local news in the morning,

02:33:59   that was on local news in the afternoon,

02:34:01   that was on local news in the evening.

02:34:03   Not necessarily my story, but just the idea of like,

02:34:06   "Does the Apple Watch work with tattoos?

02:34:08   "Will your wrists be safe?"

02:34:10   And I don't think I really realized until that moment,

02:34:14   and then until I started doing, you know,

02:34:17   just semi, like Renee and I occasionally do spots

02:34:21   on CNBC and stuff, and that,

02:34:24   realizing just how much the notion of Apple's dealings

02:34:29   and day-to-day stuff is affected and shown on local news

02:34:34   and that everybody kinda knows what's going on,

02:34:36   it's still a little bit shocking at times.

02:34:38   I know it's a big deal.

02:34:39   I know Apple is a giant company

02:34:41   and that millions and billions of people

02:34:43   pay attention to them,

02:34:44   But it's sometimes hard to remember that

02:34:48   when you're in your little bubble

02:34:49   writing about camera tests.

02:34:51   Or like how a building zooms.

02:34:53   - Totally.

02:34:54   All right, Serenity, thank you so much for your time.

02:34:56   Thank you for being here, what a great conversation.

02:34:59   Like I said, you can find her on Twitter

02:35:01   at Saturn and all of her work at iMore.

02:35:04   - Thanks very much, John.

02:35:06   - Yeah, talk to you next time.