The Talk Show

167: ‘Hey Bruh You Bumped Muh Hat’ With Jim Dalrymple


00:00:00   Oh, I haven't done a show since the event, so we probably ought to talk about the event, really.

00:00:04   Start with that.

00:00:06   Uh...

00:00:08   What did you think?

00:00:10   I thought it was a really good event.

00:00:12   I thought it was a great event up until the end.

00:00:16   Even then, you're talking about Sia?

00:00:18   Yeah.

00:00:20   Even then, it wasn't bad. I've seen her before. I saw her on Saturday Night Live. Her music is amazing.

00:00:25   I just have to say that the performance made me feel weird.

00:00:29   You know what, people misunderstood my comment, because you said during the thing, "I miss you too."

00:00:42   [Laughter]

00:00:44   And I'm sitting, I was sitting just down in front of you, and I started laughing

00:00:50   when I saw your comment. And she is a talented artist. There is no doubt about that. She's a

00:00:58   talented artist. I understand that a lot of people really like her, but it kind of took the whole

00:01:10   up of the of the keynote and, you know, brought your way down. You know, it was a weird note to

00:01:19   end on because it's even if I would have to think even somebody who's a big Sia fan would have to

00:01:24   say that they weren't really like upbeat songs. I left there, I left going to go into the hands-on

00:01:33   and when Tim ended his keynote segment I thought all right you know is there is there hands-on I

00:01:39   mean there usually is is there is there and then you know I was excited I wanted to get my hands

00:01:43   on the on the products and then she came out and I was like do do do you know wow if I had a knife

00:01:51   I'd cut my own throat right now, you know, this is so depressing. But, you know, that I didn't think

00:01:58   it was depressing. Although the video is sort of like took place in like squalor. Right?

00:02:02   I don't know. I don't know. I had to look away before I was afraid I was going to go jump out

00:02:08   in front of a bus or something. I felt overwhelmed. I don't know. It was a bug. Vomiting. It just,

00:02:14   I don't know, sometimes it seems like the music side of Apple is just trying too hard.

00:02:22   And that's kind of what that seemed. I mean, if they ended it with, you know, an upbeat artist,

00:02:29   and everything was great and cool, then, and, you know, the only people, I looked around,

00:02:35   the only people that stood and co-oped for the performance were from Apple.

00:02:43   all the reporters, even the ones around me, were sitting there with their jaws open like,

00:02:49   what was that? What just happened?

00:02:53   Pete: I, you know, I don't expect Apple to pick music from my iTunes library every time.

00:03:01   Brian: Once in a while would be nice, though.

00:03:03   Pete; Well, the Foo Fighters was my favorite of all time. That was amazing.

00:03:07   Brian; That was incredible.

00:03:08   Pete; I love the Foo Fighters. I don't even like going to concerts. I really don't. My wife does,

00:03:12   I don't. I find, I don't know, it's too loud. But if you reach a certain threshold, though,

00:03:18   then I will go and I love it. I've been to see, I've seen the Foo Fighters many, many times. And

00:03:22   not only do I love their recorded studio music, Foo Fighters, I don't know if you've ever seen

00:03:25   them live. They are a fantastic live. I know you saw them live at the Apple event.

00:03:29   I saw them at the Apple event and they were fantastic there. And you left feeling really good.

00:03:35   I mean, you left that event feeling good. But, you know, for years, Apple is not new to having

00:03:41   musical acts on their events. That's nothing new, but it was always, "Here are our great products."

00:03:53   And focus on the products. The focus was always on the products. And then at the end, "Oh yeah,

00:03:58   here's some band from Ireland. Yeah, here's you too." And sure, it was a big part. It was

00:04:09   an exciting thing to have a big band here or here's the Foo Fighters, but it was never the focus.

00:04:14   It was never the focus. The products were always the focus.

00:04:18   Ted

00:04:35   and Bono regarding and the three-two-one countdown were pulling a switch and yeah

00:04:40   it was you know seemingly under rehearsed and ill-considered and then

00:04:46   ended up being a distraction because the whole everybody gets the album but

00:04:51   instead of like clicking a button to say you know hey I want the album they just

00:04:55   forced it into your your I you know iTunes library which went over like a

00:04:59   lead balloon so arguably I would say that one was distracting too but here's

00:05:04   thing for me is it's not like hey apple you have to pick an artist who i like personally every time

00:05:09   because that's never going to happen because different people have different musical tastes

00:05:12   but the previous ones were always just about the music right so here's an example of somebody who

00:05:17   i'm not a particular fan of but i appreciate that he's a super talented musician john may

00:05:23   oh yeah right now i he's you know i i you know you know you're the guitarist but i mean i think

00:05:28   most people consider him one of the best guitarists in the game today. He's super talented,

00:05:34   good songwriter, has an interesting voice. I'm just not a fan, but when he was there,

00:05:38   it was just John Mayer and a guitar and a mic and the music, right? Brilliant.

00:05:43   One that I really loved, I forget which year it was, but I think it was Apple Town Hall,

00:05:49   was when Elvis Costello played. Yes. And I know it was Town Hall because I have a vivid memory of

00:05:56   it. I was like, "Holy shit, am I close to Elvis Costello." Now, I'm a big Elvis Costello fan.

00:06:00   Maybe I'm showing my age. Love the guy. But I think even if you're not an Elvis Costello fan,

00:06:06   it's not like him being up there for two or three songs was distracting, because it was literally

00:06:10   just Elvis Costello, a guitar, and a microphone. And it was really cool. The thing about the Sia

00:06:15   show was that it was like this whole— Pete: Production.

00:06:18   Pete: Production. There's a big video screen and there's these dancers running around doing weird

00:06:23   stuff and, you know, anyway.

00:06:24   Pete: Well, that's like WDC, not this year, I don't think it was this year, last year,

00:06:29   maybe, where they had The Weekend. It was just weird. You know, lasers and everything

00:06:36   going, it was just weird. And that's what I say, you know, it's almost like whoever

00:06:41   books these acts, whether it's Jimmy Iovine or whatever, is just trying too hard.

00:06:47   Pete: I think whoever it is, whoever they pick ought to just be somebody who's focused

00:06:50   on them.

00:06:51   Pete: Yeah.

00:06:52   Apple's message that we love music, whereas the Sia thing is way more than about the music. It

00:06:58   really is like an interactive, you know, production. I didn't find it. I think you objected to it more

00:07:04   than me. It was a weird thing. I did object to it. I don't object to her talent. I never would

00:07:13   expect that Apple would have somebody in my iTunes music library, you know, like Ozzy or Metallica or

00:07:21   something. I know that that's not going to happen. I can hope, but I know that that's never going to

00:07:27   happen, and I get that. But, you know, somebody like Sia, I think a lot of us, and people that

00:07:36   I talked to afterwards, people that saw the thing live and on video were just saying, "What the hell

00:07:43   was that?" You know, I just, it didn't send a good message to me.

00:07:48   What do you think of the opening with Tim Cook and Carpool Karaoke?

00:07:53   Hilarious.

00:07:54   I thought it was super funny.

00:07:56   I liked it.

00:07:57   I really liked that a lot.

00:07:59   It shows the side of Tim that we don't often get to see.

00:08:05   I thought it was great that they have Carpool Karaoke and they put Tim in there.

00:08:13   I could have done without Pharrell.

00:08:14   I have zero respect for Pharrell because he's a thief.

00:08:19   So I could have done without that,

00:08:23   but Tim and James were awesome.

00:08:28   Siri, how was Tim Cook?

00:08:30   Or what do you think of Tim Cook?

00:08:31   - Have you heard the backstory on Pharrell in that video?

00:08:36   - That they wanted to do a different song?

00:08:40   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:08:40   - I'm gonna tell the story.

00:08:43   I don't know where you heard it,

00:08:43   But I heard it from the source that I can at least relay it here.

00:08:46   So the idea was that they set up this carpool karaoke in advance.

00:08:50   And one of the songs Tim Cook wanted to do was "Happy."

00:08:55   And Eovine calls Pharrell.

00:09:00   And I think Pharrell was sort of on the fence.

00:09:03   And long story short, he was like, all right, well, if the hell we'll do it.

00:09:06   And I guess they did it, but then they ended up not even using it in the video.

00:09:10   But Pharrell was still there, so they still had Pharrell in the back seat.

00:09:12   and then it was weirdly edited

00:09:14   because it was like he was there,

00:09:15   but then he was. (laughs)

00:09:16   It's like everybody, when they got,

00:09:18   you know, the gimmick is the car pulls up

00:09:20   to the back of the Bill Graham Center

00:09:21   and ostensibly, you know, it's a joke joke,

00:09:24   sort of like a Letterman joke, really.

00:09:26   Tim Cook gets out and he comes on stage,

00:09:28   but Pharrell's not in the cardio war.

00:09:30   Where's Pharrell?

00:09:31   I swear to God, everybody, you were there,

00:09:33   you were near me, everybody was like,

00:09:35   everybody turned to each other.

00:09:36   Everybody noticed it, it was like, where's Pharrell?

00:09:38   - Yeah, it was, there was some funny things in there,

00:09:41   I think overall it went really well. I mean, you know, Tim, I wish he had to come out with

00:09:49   the glasses on. You know, he came out and then—

00:09:51   No, I think coming out with them in his hand was the right—it was the right level of

00:09:55   in the gag, because I think it'd be—you don't want pictures of him wearing those glasses.

00:09:59   No, well, okay, yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. See, I wouldn't mind pictures of

00:10:05   wearing those glasses, so.

00:10:06   I thought it was really good, and like you said, it really did reveal to me what seemed to be a

00:10:11   genuine side of Tim Cook that you often don't get to see because he's so on message.

00:10:19   Right.

00:10:20   Like, he's not that he's stiff. He's not, but he is calculated.

00:10:25   Yes.

00:10:26   And like, for example, I actually saw it on your website today. I don't know if it was you or Dave

00:10:35   who linked to it, but it was on Good Morning America.

00:10:37   Right. Yeah.

00:10:37   I guess in a run up to tomorrow's debut of the iPhones and the watch and everything.

00:10:42   Was it you or was it Dave who lived with it? All right. And he said, "It's all fluff. It's not

00:10:51   really anything there." But what do you expect on a six-minute segment in a morning show?

00:10:55   But it's like you can't recommend the video as like, "Wow, you're really going to learn

00:10:59   something?" People who listen to this show aren't going to watch it. But it is interesting to watch

00:11:03   it. I watched a couple minutes just to see how on point Tim Cook is, right? Like, he's just,

00:11:10   you know, unflappable in that type of thing, but he's also very, very, he's ready for any question,

00:11:18   but it's not, you know, the carpool karaoke Tim was sort of, "Hey, this is me, this is what I'm

00:11:25   like, you know, you know, when I'm just goofing around." It was actually Sean who linked to that,

00:11:29   which is Sean which explains the uh you know the kind of negative comments because he's just

00:11:35   negative about everything so um but anyway it was a good description it was just all fluff and

00:11:44   but it's still interesting to think of it in terms of this is not his primary job you know what i

00:11:49   mean like he's an op he came up as an operations guy i mean clearly his primary talent is in the

00:11:55   actual executive leadership of the company. The spokesperson stuff does not and never has come

00:12:02   naturally to him in the way it did with Steve Jobs. Right?

00:12:04   Ted

00:12:22   explain something and that's huge it's huge so and Steve Steve never would have done carpool

00:12:28   karaoke no and it would have been funny to see that but no no he wouldn't have done did you see

00:12:33   the the other video that i posted today johnny ives says aluminium did you watch that no i didn't

00:12:41   watch it do you gotta watch it it's the most hilarious thing i have seen okay it's great

00:12:50   I was actually, I saw it on the weekend, last weekend, it took me until today to

00:12:56   to post it, but I was laughing. I was sitting outside by myself watching this laughing. Yeah.

00:13:05   Well, speaking of getting better at speaking on stage, Jeff Williams did the Apple Watch part, and

00:13:20   every time he does it, I think I'm going to say the same thing, which is that it is

00:13:23   kind of uncanny how Tim Cook liked Jeff Williams.

00:13:30   I like Jeff speaking about it better than, oh, who's the Macromedia guy?

00:13:37   Kevin Lynch. Software. Kevin Lynch is software and effectively Jeff Williams is hardware. I mean,

00:13:46   I mean, obviously the design is Johnny Ives and his team,

00:13:49   but that Jeff Williams, in addition to his regular duties

00:13:53   as chief operating officer,

00:13:54   is the point person running the watch.

00:13:59   - I like Jeff.

00:14:00   I mean, Jeff is also in charge of all the health initiatives

00:14:05   that they're doing.

00:14:06   - Yes, yes. - You know,

00:14:07   research kid and health kid. - Health kid.

00:14:10   Or what's the other one, in addition to research kid?

00:14:12   There's-- - Oh, they have

00:14:14   a few of them now.

00:14:15   I don't know, hospital kit.

00:14:17   - Yeah, something like that.

00:14:17   - I don't know.

00:14:19   But I like Jeff.

00:14:21   He is, he's getting much better too.

00:14:24   And then of course you have the best of them all,

00:14:29   I think, and show her.

00:14:31   - Well, let's do him an order.

00:14:33   - All right, all right.

00:14:34   - But with the, I said with,

00:14:36   Renee was on my show last episode.

00:14:38   I was gonna say last week,

00:14:39   but it was closer to two weeks ago, but Renee was on.

00:14:41   And I was a little skeptical that Jeff Williams

00:14:43   would do the watch introduction and Renee said,

00:14:46   no, they're grooming him to do more speaking.

00:14:48   He's going to do it.

00:14:49   So being right point awarded to Renee Ritchie,

00:14:52   it was Jeff Williams who did it.

00:14:53   My skepticism about it wasn't that Jeff Williams is not

00:14:57   good on stage, but that he's a little droll,

00:15:00   or has been in the past.

00:15:02   And I think that in particular--

00:15:04   that's OK when you're introducing a software

00:15:08   platform for university hospital researchers

00:15:11   to conduct large scale medical tests.

00:15:16   It's not okay when you're trying to unveil

00:15:19   the second generation of the second by revenue

00:15:22   in the entire industry watch.

00:15:24   That you gotta have a certain,

00:15:26   you gotta take your game up a little

00:15:28   in terms of enthusiasm, and he did it, really.

00:15:32   I thought that he was, he had like a sort of

00:15:36   upbeat enthusiasm that was exactly what was called for,

00:15:41   and it was his best on-stage performance period.

00:15:45   - I agree wholeheartedly.

00:15:46   I think that Jeff is doing much better.

00:15:49   Tim is certainly doing a whole lot better.

00:15:52   - And again, these are not professional spokespeople.

00:15:56   These are people, you know,

00:15:57   these are leading people in the industry

00:16:00   at these very specific tasks that are related to their job

00:16:03   who like once or twice a year,

00:16:05   all of a sudden have the spotlight

00:16:07   of a million suns on them.

00:16:10   Did you see the thing, like just how many people

00:16:13   watch these keynotes, that Akame released a tweet

00:16:16   that said that the peak of the Apple event

00:16:18   was the highest Akame's ever had for live video streaming.

00:16:21   Akame did the live video streaming for the Olympics.

00:16:25   Now that doesn't mean more people,

00:16:27   that doesn't mean more people watch the Apple event

00:16:29   than watch the Olympics,

00:16:30   'cause the Olympics are a two-week long event,

00:16:31   but that at their peak,

00:16:33   - At their peak, yep.

00:16:34   - There were more people watching simultaneously,

00:16:36   so in terms of the actual strain on the Akame network

00:16:39   at any given time, that was the highest they'd ever reached.

00:16:42   So think about that, like I think about how nervous I get

00:16:45   when I go to a conference with 500 people

00:16:48   and get on stage and talk.

00:16:49   - Yeah.

00:16:50   - Like imagine if you're getting on stage,

00:16:52   you're not a professional spokesperson or speaker,

00:16:55   and you're getting up there in front of the highest

00:16:57   peak audience that Akamai has ever handled.

00:16:59   There is serious pressure.

00:17:02   - Keep in mind that with this peak thing,

00:17:04   they've also streamed all of Steve Jobs' stuff,

00:17:08   iPhone announcements, everything, everything, this is ever.

00:17:12   So that's, you know.

00:17:14   - So I think what's happened in the past,

00:17:17   and again, this is us, me and you,

00:17:20   who would get up there and botch the whole thing,

00:17:23   and we'd try to do it.

00:17:24   I'm not, again, this is, we're, you know,

00:17:27   but we get, this is what we get to do.

00:17:28   We get to be armchair critics and criticize.

00:17:30   I think in the past, somebody like Jeff Williams,

00:17:32   and I think we saw the same thing with Tim Cook

00:17:34   in the early years, like when Steve Jobs was still around

00:17:37   and Tim would come out and do like the,

00:17:40   "Hey, how's the Mac doing?" segment.

00:17:42   That, again, he was never bad, and he was always rehearsed.

00:17:48   These are guys who do their homework, right?

00:17:50   But I think that the pressure of the moment

00:17:52   led them to be a little reserved

00:17:55   and focused on not making a mistake.

00:17:58   And I think that what you see is

00:18:00   as they do it over and over again and they get confident,

00:18:03   is that they can lighten up a little bit.

00:18:05   There's a certain looseness.

00:18:06   the body language and in the inflection as the words come out that you, you know, certainly see

00:18:12   it with Tim Cook now. And I thought this time that Williams leveled up, you know, like he leveled up

00:18:20   a grade level in terms of his on stage presence and really did a good job. Well, and let's be

00:18:25   honest, the stuff that that Williams has announced to date, minus this last keynote, haven't been the

00:18:33   most exciting products, hugely important products, but not the most exciting. So you know, talking

00:18:39   about research kit and what hospitals can do and diseases and all that wildly important stuff that

00:18:46   Apple is doing, but it's not like a new watch or a new phone, you know, it's hard to show the

00:18:52   exuberance for that kind of stuff. But yes, I agree with you. I mean, he still ran over everything,

00:19:01   He took us through, and I was impressed.

00:19:06   - So in the previous ones,

00:19:08   Kevin Lynch was the guy who did a lot of it,

00:19:10   and it was a little bit more of an emphasis on software.

00:19:15   And again, I think it's,

00:19:17   wasn't Kevin Lynch at WWDC?

00:19:20   I think he was.

00:19:20   And it's the same way that Craig Federighi was up on WWDC

00:19:24   to talk about iOS 10.

00:19:25   And there is, I've written about this

00:19:30   in response to people talking about the diversity

00:19:33   of the people who are on stage, that it matters,

00:19:36   but the way it works isn't that Apple just picks people,

00:19:41   who's gonna do this, well let's find someone

00:19:42   to talk about this.

00:19:43   Whoever is up there talking about whatever it is

00:19:46   they're talking about has a direct relationship

00:19:50   with the actual service or product, right?

00:19:53   It's not like there's a pool of spokespeople

00:19:54   who Apple picks out of the company,

00:19:57   and this one does that and this one does that.

00:19:59   Williams is doing the watch because he's directly in charge of the watch and I

00:20:03   you know it you know there's crossover and there certainly are multiple people

00:20:09   who could do certain things you know like it's not like they couldn't have

00:20:14   brought Federighi up again to talk about iOS 10 and they could have like I did

00:20:20   the first time they did watch hardware have Kevin Lynch talk about the software

00:20:23   because Kevin Lynch is in charge of the software but I think you know it's it's

00:20:28   been a very predictable Apple year in terms of who's on stage for what with at WWDC.

00:20:35   You know, you don't see, you know, it's the second year in a row where Schiller wasn't on stage at

00:20:40   WWDC because it was so software focused and let's let Federighi do it and Federighi is a really good

00:20:45   speaker. He is a really good speaker but he has that that fun side of him, you know, I mean,

00:20:52   you know, you were talking before about about Williams and and Tim when when they first started

00:20:58   They were not stiff, but very conservative.

00:21:01   Pete: Reserved, right?

00:21:02   Pete: Reserved, yeah. And Federicchi is just the opposite of that. You know,

00:21:08   he goes out and it's like, his hands are going and he's walking around and he's joking and, you know.

00:21:13   Pete; Well, he had an ad lib this year, right, where there was, he was going over the new photo

00:21:17   stuff and one of the photos was like, what was it? It was like a weird group of, it was like a weird

00:21:23   group of kids and something and it just, it was like, it's just a very odd photo and he goes,

00:21:27   you know, that's a really odd photo. And everybody laughed, you know. That was a total ad lib.

00:21:32   Pete: I like it. I like Craig's talks because he does get to the point, but he brings

00:21:39   some lightheartedness to it too. And he's become a superstar. I mean, go to WDC and people are

00:21:47   pictures of him and you know, it's crazy. They do that more with him than with you.

00:21:54   Oh, without question.

00:21:56   I've been with you at WDC. You know, people are pushing me out of the way to take pictures with you.

00:22:01   Yeah, it's like the only place where I really get that. But, and I like it. I inflected that

00:22:06   poorly. I do enjoy it. But it's, there's a subset of, it's a significant subset at WDC of people

00:22:12   who are like daring fireball fans or, you know, you see, and you do see a lot of daring fireball

00:22:17   t-shirts, which is always a thrill for me. But it's clearly a subset. Whereas I think every single

00:22:22   person who's there knows who Craig Federighi is. I mean because they all watch the keynote, right?

00:22:26   I mean that's why they're nobody gets to WWDC by accident. And you can't miss that hair. Right,

00:22:31   exactly. He's also a very distinctive looking person. It's not like there's a lot of guys who

00:22:37   look like Craig Federighi. Anyway, Apple Watch. I thought that this was, you know, I'm not surprised.

00:22:43   I am not surprised given the price, given how many I see around on people's wrists. I mean certainly

00:22:50   when you're in San Francisco, God, you see Apple watches everywhere.

00:22:53   Everywhere.

00:22:54   But even here in Philadelphia, which is not a particularly tech-oriented or cutting-edge town,

00:23:01   I see an awful—ever since last Christmas, I've really started seeing an awful lot of them.

00:23:05   But I thought it was really an eye-opening thing. Tim Cook, right before he introduced Jeff Williams,

00:23:10   put up a thing and said, "Here were the top 10 watch companies by revenue in 2014,

00:23:16   and here's the list in 2015 and Apple was second on the list only to Rolex

00:23:21   and they and then he of course added we were only we were only on sale for eight months of the year

00:23:27   yeah and the other thing that was really interesting about that list I don't have it handy

00:23:32   I should see if I could get a link to it but it was really really interesting to me how that list

00:23:38   from one to ten jumped back and forth between premium, like again Rolex was number one,

00:23:46   and mass market. I think number two previously was fossil and they got Apple moved them down to

00:23:54   three. So right there at one, two was sort of the yin and yang of the watch market, right? Where

00:24:01   Rolex is, you know, you're walking, you know, just to walk out of the store with a Rolex,

00:24:05   you're talking $4,000, $5,000, $6,000 for stainless steel,

00:24:09   not gold, not diamond.

00:24:12   That's your base model.

00:24:13   And then fossil, I think you could get a nice fossil watch

00:24:17   for $70 or $80.

00:24:20   And the whole list was sort of like that, where there's

00:24:23   Omegas that are $6,000, $7,000, $8,000.

00:24:27   I forget, there were some companies that sell $20,000,

00:24:29   $30,000 watches, and others that are like Citizen and Seiko,

00:24:35   who are mass market 75 to 200 dollar watches. So I thought that was really interesting and

00:24:42   it's interesting to me that Apple sort of, the Apple Watch sort of straddles those,

00:24:47   you know, those two worlds. Now you like watches beyond Apple Watch. Do you have expensive watches?

00:24:55   I have one. Okay and how do you use that? Like just like you normally would and why would you

00:25:05   rather the analog than an Apple Watch?

00:25:08   Because I still like it and I still think the most important reason that I wear it is

00:25:17   just to sell the time and when I travel, like if I take a vacation, it's, you know, sometimes

00:25:24   I take the Apple, I treat the Apple Watch as one of several watches that I own, but

00:25:29   primarily just wear it too. I don't know though. I don't know how it's gonna, you

00:25:37   know, and I don't love Apple Watch that much. There was a period when I

00:25:44   first started wearing it where, because it was new and I was testing it and I

00:25:48   wanted to get to know it where I wore it every day. And I will say that the fitness

00:25:52   tracking stuff does, it reinforces wearing it every day because you want to

00:25:55   keep streaks going. Right. I mean you know this. I mean you've written about this as

00:25:59   as extensively as anybody that it's literally changed

00:26:02   your lifestyle and your physical health.

00:26:04   - Yeah, it has.

00:26:05   - And the streak definitely matters.

00:26:07   I think the more you get into that,

00:26:08   you more you wanna wear it all the time.

00:26:09   But then once you stop wearing it all the time

00:26:11   and the streaks aren't there, it's not as...

00:26:15   I don't feel compelled to wear it every day.

00:26:20   Typically, I'll just say in rough description,

00:26:23   I often wear my Apple Watch on weekdays while I work.

00:26:28   It's useful like when I'm up and I can you know

00:26:30   if I'm just getting up to go get more fizzy water or go downstairs and pour another cup of coffee and

00:26:34   Notification comes in I don't even have to have my iPhone with me. I can just look at my wrist and see what it is

00:26:40   When I do go running it's during the day obviously, I mean, I guess some people run at night

00:26:46   But I think in the city, it's it's a little dangerous, but you know, I try to run a couple times a week

00:26:51   So I have my watch I always wear the watch for that so I get the fitness tracking

00:26:56   But then at night and as on weekends, I usually wear just my regular watch because I don't care about notifications

00:27:02   Really? Yeah, see I kind of like the notifications because it

00:27:09   Means that I can deal with stuff if I need to and leave it if I don't

00:27:13   you know on the watch, it's very easy to get a notification if I get something from

00:27:19   You know Sean and it says hey whenever you get a minute give me a call

00:27:26   as opposed to if I get something from you and it says I need to talk to you right away

00:27:31   okay well I can I can look at my watch and see Shawn's and say oh I don't need to do anything

00:27:37   I can continue doing what I'm doing as opposed to picking up the phone and seeing Shawn's message

00:27:41   and you know saying no okay I'll call later and then all there's three emails and oh there's

00:27:48   something else that's going on I might as well check Twitter while I'm here and it's a 20 minute

00:27:52   endeavor every time you pick up the phone. You know, where is my watch?

00:27:56   You weren't a watch person before though, right? No. And I've said all along, one of the things I

00:28:02   said in my watch review this week that I got a lot of things wrong in my first watch review,

00:28:07   but I think conversely, Apple got a lot of things wrong in their first version of how the watch

00:28:11   works and what they do. But one of the things I stand behind and I think I got right, right from

00:28:19   from the start is that a big chunk of Apple Watch's appeal

00:28:24   is aimed towards people who haven't been wearing a watch

00:28:27   for years or maybe never wore a watch

00:28:29   and the wrist was wide open, right?

00:28:32   Like, you're only gonna wear it,

00:28:35   like part of the basic, I mean, this sounds super obvious,

00:28:39   but you have to think about it.

00:28:40   It really, you know, it's true.

00:28:43   Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's untrue.

00:28:45   Is that for anybody to buy an Apple Watch,

00:28:47   they need to have a wrist where they're gonna put it.

00:28:51   And if you've got like, already wear a watch that you love

00:28:55   and you have no interest in stopping to wear,

00:28:57   you're not gonna buy an Apple Watch.

00:28:59   Right, it's, you know, this is just a fact.

00:29:03   I think a big part of the success of Apple Watch

00:29:05   is there were an awful lot of wrists out there

00:29:09   that had nothing on them at all.

00:29:10   Or maybe they had something like a Fitbit

00:29:12   or something like that.

00:29:13   - Yeah.

00:29:14   - Instead of a traditional watch.

00:29:16   And the value proposition of Apple Watch

00:29:18   compared to a fitness band was like,

00:29:21   yeah, I'll just take this off, put it in a drawer,

00:29:23   and get something that's better.

00:29:25   - No, you're right, you're right about that.

00:29:28   - And a couple of other people I know who are watch guys,

00:29:31   and I say that deliberately because in my experience,

00:29:35   people who are a little bit more interested in watch

00:29:38   do tend to be men, and it's not to say

00:29:40   that there aren't women who aren't watch collectors,

00:29:42   but it's, you know, being quote unquote into watches

00:29:46   is overwhelmingly a male thing.

00:29:48   And I think the reason why is because women have

00:29:51   all sorts of options for jewelry.

00:29:55   - Yes.

00:29:56   - And for most men and their personal styles,

00:29:59   the really only place for jewelry in most men's,

00:30:03   and certainly the way I dress and, you know,

00:30:06   my personal sense of style,

00:30:09   the only place where I'm gonna put jewelry is on my wrist,

00:30:12   Which is, you know, and I'm not saying anything

00:30:14   that a lot of people haven't realized, but that's why.

00:30:16   And I think for watch guys, the Apple Watch

00:30:19   is less appealing than from people

00:30:21   who weren't into watches before.

00:30:23   - Now, the only thing that would make me

00:30:26   not wear an Apple Watch at this point

00:30:30   is if my father gave me his watch.

00:30:33   - Hmm. - Yeah, because he got

00:30:35   that watch from his father.

00:30:38   So if I had that, I don't know if I would wear it

00:30:41   or what I would do with it.

00:30:42   I haven't really thought about that,

00:30:44   but that's about the only situation I can think where

00:30:47   I would wear something else.

00:30:50   - I know a couple people who are really into R racket.

00:30:52   Computers, however it is they make their paycheck,

00:30:57   they're either writing about computers or they're writing

00:30:58   code or they're somehow involved in computers,

00:31:01   who are into watches and it's always mechanical watches

00:31:06   or almost always mechanical watches,

00:31:07   meaning watches that don't take a battery,

00:31:10   that are completely mechanical devices.

00:31:13   And I think there's something to it where

00:31:16   if you're doing something computery and electronic all day,

00:31:20   there is something appealing

00:31:22   about a completely non-electronic device.

00:31:30   But that still works algorithmically.

00:31:33   That's the thing is when you get into watches,

00:31:35   you start learning about the movements

00:31:39   how the actual watch goes. And you know if you know that it's like well if this

00:31:42   spring has a certain tension it'll push this and this gear will turn at a

00:31:46   certain rate and that gear will turn at this rate and this thing oscillates and

00:31:50   you end up with you know a second hand that moves it eight times a second

00:31:55   between here and there which creates the illusion that it's just smoothly

00:31:58   sweeping around the hand you know if this then that it's it's algorithmic and

00:32:02   I feel like there's an awful lot of people who are like programmers or have

00:32:06   programming type mindset who if they were alive a hundred years ago they'd be watchmakers.

00:32:11   I've had this conversation with Dave Nanian of SuperDuper. Yeah. And Dave is a huge watch guy.

00:32:18   He's really, when I first started getting into watches he taught me I would say probably 75%

00:32:22   of what I know and has some really good, has taste that aligns with mine in a lot of ways.

00:32:29   And he, you know, he said the same, you know, he's, I probably just ripped off that whole

00:32:35   (laughing)

00:32:37   I'd probably just rip that whole thing off from him

00:32:40   from like a conversation I had with him

00:32:41   at like the C4 conference like 10 years ago

00:32:43   when I first started getting into watches.

00:32:45   Like the correlation between the logic

00:32:47   of programming and computers

00:32:49   and the exact same type of thinking

00:32:51   but in a completely mechanical, non-electronic sense

00:32:54   of mechanical watches.

00:32:55   So anyway.

00:32:56   - Dave's gonna sue you now for taking his idea.

00:32:58   - Well, go buy Super Duper.

00:33:01   - There you go.

00:33:02   - Call it even.

00:33:02   - Call it even.

00:33:03   - It's a great disc cloning utility for Mac.

00:33:04   If you've never used it, you really ought to look at it.

00:33:06   I've been using it since forever.

00:33:08   Me too.

00:33:09   So hi, Dave.

00:33:10   Yeah, anyway, the event.

00:33:11   I don't know.

00:33:15   So we left off at Williams.

00:33:18   Right.

00:33:19   What was next?

00:33:20   The watch was there.

00:33:22   I thought it was strong.

00:33:23   Was it Shiller?

00:33:25   Yeah, probably, right?

00:33:26   I mean, that's really all there was now that I think about it.

00:33:29   I left my-- oh, no, here's my notebook.

00:33:32   So Apple Watch came out at 1025.

00:33:34   Apple Watch Series 2, the Nike stuff,

00:33:39   and then 1054 was iPhone.

00:33:42   So watch got 30 minutes, and then Schiller was on

00:33:46   for 55 minutes talking about the iPhone.

00:33:49   I thought Schiller was great, and you already said that,

00:33:51   but it was almost the canonical,

00:33:55   Phil Schiller introduces a new iPhone introduction.

00:34:00   Show her is, it's tough to explain Show her, but you tend to believe Show her when he's talking.

00:34:11   You know, unlike some of these, like you were talking about before with spokespeople.

00:34:15   Pete: Yeah.

00:34:16   Pete; Show her's not a spokesperson. He believes what he's saying. He gets up, he tells you. And

00:34:21   one thing, I actually thought this was very interesting and I think that it happened more

00:34:29   this time than with any other Apple keynote. They not only told you what the new features were,

00:34:38   they told you why they were important. Yeah, I think that's true.

00:34:42   You know, so when Shiller was talking about the camera and he would say, you know,

00:34:50   it's a six layer camera and it does a billion actions in 25 milliseconds and, you know,

00:34:58   all this stuff that's fine that that's a great thing to say it's it's perfect for a keynote

00:35:04   that you say all that stuff but then he stopped and said and here's what happens during that

00:35:10   process here are the things that we do and here's what happens to your picture and he went through

00:35:15   showing the picture during the six layers and all the things that's going on inside there and as a

00:35:24   you know, a very poor photographer myself, I look at that and say, "Oh, okay, so that means that

00:35:32   it's going to be, I'm going to be able to take better pictures." And I kind of understand why.

00:35:36   I think that was important.

00:35:39   Pete: Yeah. Here's an interesting fact. I just pecked this out and correct me if I'm wrong,

00:35:44   but this is, and we can talk about this, actually I do want to talk about it. This was the 10th

00:35:50   generation iPhone.

00:35:52   - Yeah.

00:35:53   - I'm not counting, iPhones I'm not counting

00:35:55   that are sort of half generations are the Verizon iPhone 4

00:35:59   which introduced CDMA and this is why,

00:36:03   the bigger reason I think it deserves

00:36:04   the half generation designation is it had

00:36:07   the different antenna layout that ended up being used

00:36:12   by the 4S a year later for all of the iPhone 4Ss

00:36:16   but the Verizon iPhone 4 had the 4S style

00:36:20   antenna lines that didn't have the antenna gate attenuation issue of the iPhone 4. I'm not counting

00:36:26   the iPhone 5c, which was plastic, but which had the exact same internal specifications as the iPhone

00:36:34   5 the year before. It was literally just the outer casing that was different and the display and

00:36:39   everything inside was the same as the iPhone 5. And I'm not counting the iPhone SE, which is of

00:36:45   all of those oddball off-generation things is the one that perhaps most, you know, qualifies as a

00:36:51   half-generation because it's, you know, really, really interesting technology-wise. But I'm just

00:36:55   talking about flagship top-of-the-line iPhones. The iPhone 7 and 7 Plus are the 10th iPhones.

00:37:02   Of those 10, only three were introduced by Steve Jobs. The original, the 3G, the 3GS was during

00:37:09   Jobs' first medical leave, and Schiller did it at WWDC,

00:37:13   it was still when they were doing them at WWDC.

00:37:15   Jobs was back for the iPhone 4, the first retina one in 2010

00:37:20   but then the 2011 was the 4S which was introduced

00:37:23   at the sort of somber maudlin town hall.

00:37:28   I mean that's almost stunning.

00:37:30   If you think about how many people

00:37:31   were at the event last week,

00:37:34   that place was packed.

00:37:37   - Yeah it was. - To think that they

00:37:38   I actually did an iPhone introduction

00:37:39   in the 100 person town hall, it was amazing.

00:37:42   But that was the one that was introduced

00:37:43   just a few days before Jobs died.

00:37:45   - I think it was the day before.

00:37:48   - The day before, yeah.

00:37:49   - I think so.

00:37:50   - And you knew the day, I mean, Tim and those guys

00:37:53   were close enough that they knew.

00:37:56   So out of 10 phones, Schiller's done seven of them.

00:38:01   Which I think, in my mind,

00:38:02   it's like that doesn't sound right to me.

00:38:04   It seems like I seem to remember Steve Jobs

00:38:06   introducing lots of iPhones, but it's actually not true.

00:38:08   - That's an interesting piece of research.

00:38:14   I didn't know that.

00:38:15   I think, and you know, he's always been good at it,

00:38:20   but I think this one was as good as ever.

00:38:23   - Yeah, I just, I enjoy when Phil goes up to talk.

00:38:28   Maybe it's, you know, he's just no nonsense.

00:38:32   He gets up there and he's gonna tell you,

00:38:34   and then every once in a while,

00:38:35   I loved, I love this line when he was up talking about the phone and he said, "We're introducing

00:38:42   another new color.

00:38:44   We call it black."

00:38:48   [Laughter]

00:38:49   I mean, I just wanted to stand up and do the slow clap, you know, like, brilliant.

00:38:55   That was brilliant, Phil.

00:38:56   You know, he had the, he had the pauses.

00:38:59   It's black.

00:39:00   It's a black iPhone.

00:39:01   We call it, you know, is it going to be matte black?

00:39:04   Is it gonna be this fancy color like space gray?

00:39:06   Is it gonna be space black?

00:39:08   No, we call it black.

00:39:10   - Brilliant.

00:39:11   - There's the whole why did we remove the antenna jack thing

00:39:15   and I'm gonna give you three reasons.

00:39:16   But first, courage.

00:39:19   That was still, I still see people even in like

00:39:21   their iPhone reviews this week bringing that up.

00:39:24   And I wrote a piece, I'm on board with it.

00:39:29   I don't care what anybody says.

00:39:32   And the pushback is always,

00:39:36   it's on like a sort of moral spectrum.

00:39:40   That this, you know, Apple is doing this for profit,

00:39:44   they're going to make, they're doing it just to make money

00:39:46   from AirPods and Beats headphones.

00:39:49   - That's so stupid.

00:39:49   - All right, but even if it is,

00:39:50   even if, let's just concede the point

00:39:52   that it's a money grab, all right?

00:39:54   Let's just say for the sake of argument

00:39:55   that it is a money grab.

00:39:56   It doesn't defeat the point that it takes courage

00:39:58   to do something unpopular.

00:40:00   That's the, it's like I wrote an article,

00:40:02   I thought it was pretty clear, specifically that doing

00:40:05   something that you believe to be right,

00:40:07   but that you know is going to be unpopular,

00:40:10   when there is right at hand a totally non-controversial

00:40:15   option in front of you.

00:40:16   Like if the new iPhone 7 still had the headphone jack,

00:40:19   there would be no outcry.

00:40:20   There's nobody who is going to be outraged

00:40:23   that there's still a standard headphone jack.

00:40:26   - Right. - Right?

00:40:26   It's not controversial choice A

00:40:28   versus controversial choice B.

00:40:30   It's controversial choice A versus,

00:40:33   eh, you know, that's the way it's always been choice B,

00:40:37   which is not controversial.

00:40:38   And that's why most companies don't make decisions

00:40:41   like this before Apple does.

00:40:42   That's why Apple was the first to get rid of the CD-ROM,

00:40:45   or DVD drive in laptops.

00:40:48   - Yeah, and the floppy disk, you know.

00:40:50   - Well, you know, everybody says floppy disk,

00:40:52   and it's a good example, it's a great example,

00:40:54   but it's so far in the past.

00:40:56   Like, the DVD one is fairly recent,

00:41:00   And the outcry was loud.

00:41:02   It was like, well, how the hell am I going to install the OS?

00:41:06   Yeah.

00:41:09   How am I going to install Adobe Studio?

00:41:13   It comes on a DVD.

00:41:14   It's like, well, guess what?

00:41:15   Adobe's got to get their act together and give it

00:41:16   to you a different way.

00:41:17   And they did.

00:41:18   And they do.

00:41:18   They did.

00:41:19   And nobody-- it seems ridiculous now.

00:41:22   Can you imagine?

00:41:23   I mean, think about how many years it's been since you've

00:41:26   had a laptop with a spinning DVD drive.

00:41:27   Remember how when you were typing,

00:41:29   could feel it spinning. Yeah, yeah. And you could hear it. Right. I can't imagine having one now. I

00:41:36   don't need one. And you know what? I don't need a headphone jack either. And I had so many people

00:41:43   come to me and say, you know, on Twitter or email and say, "Well, maybe you just don't have a good

00:41:50   set of headphones? Well I have a set at analog set you know with it the headphone

00:41:59   eighth inch thing a set of future sonics in-ear monitors they're $800 they're the best monitors

00:42:09   on the market bar none I don't care if you talk about ultimate ears or any of that other stuff

00:42:16   These are the best. The guy that invented in-ear monitors started Future Sonics,

00:42:23   so he knows his audio. And you previously used those with your iPhone?

00:42:28   Yeah. And I use them to mix music. I use them to listen, I use them to mix, I use them for

00:42:36   everything because they are the absolute best in-ear monitors that you can get. As a matter

00:42:42   of fact, ear monitors is a registered trademark of his. Lots of people use it, but it's his

00:42:49   trademark. So, this guy knows his audio. And I put on, when I put in the Future Sonics,

00:42:57   I can actually hear things in songs that I cannot hear on other headphones. So, it's…

00:43:05   Pete: You're coming at, in other words, you're coming at this from the perspective of somebody

00:43:08   who knows his shit and cares about good headphones.

00:43:11   Pete: I care about good headphones. And if I didn't, I wouldn't be using

00:43:16   Futuresonics, but I do. So, when people come to me and say,

00:43:19   "You don't, maybe you don't have a good pair of headphones if you did," then you would know that

00:43:24   this isn't good. Well, I send them a picture of the headphones that I do have from Futuresonics

00:43:29   and they just write back and say, "Oh." Well, you know, I -

00:43:31   Pete; So, what are you doing with them? Are you using the adapter?

00:43:34   [Laughter]

00:43:34   Pete; Yeah, I can use the adapter. It works fine.

00:43:37   [Laughter]

00:43:37   I don't know what the major problem is with these people.

00:43:41   And I wrote in my piece, okay, here's your choice.

00:43:45   You can have a 100 year old headphone adapter or you can have

00:43:49   image stabilization, a bigger battery, and there was

00:43:53   another thing. Which would you rather have? I say ditch the headphone

00:43:57   jack. Because most people, you've got to

00:44:01   remember that Apple's going for the biggest common denominator

00:44:05   here and for most people when they say oh they're taking out the headphone

00:44:09   jack oh my god I'm not gonna be able to listen to music oh no Apple's gonna

00:44:12   include a set of headphones oh okay well fine and Apple's gonna include an

00:44:18   adapter that will let you use your old headphones oh okay that's fine yeah

00:44:23   people don't care I wrote earlier when I read with my one of my favorite

00:44:30   headlines of the year, jack off.

00:44:31   (laughing)

00:44:34   Like my, here's what I think Apple should,

00:44:38   both should and will do with, you know,

00:44:41   what are they gonna put in the box?

00:44:43   That was my question heading into this.

00:44:45   Like let's just accept that the headphone jack is gone.

00:44:48   The rumors were so rampant from the supply chain.

00:44:50   What are they gonna put in the box?

00:44:53   And I was hoping they would put wireless headphones

00:44:57   in the box.

00:44:58   - Right.

00:44:59   and I didn't think that they would put the adapter,

00:45:04   but it was complicated because I said,

00:45:07   but I think it makes sense that if they're gonna put

00:45:10   wired lightning headphones in the box,

00:45:14   which is what they're actually doing,

00:45:15   then it makes sense to put the adapter in too.

00:45:18   - Yeah. - 'Cause they're saying,

00:45:20   by default, what you get are wired headphones

00:45:23   and you can use ours, which will plug in a lightning,

00:45:25   or you can use whatever ones you want

00:45:27   that'll plug into this little adapter,

00:45:30   and we'll sell the adapters for the lowest price

00:45:32   we can possibly get away with selling it for nine bucks.

00:45:34   So you can buy a bunch of them in case you lose them

00:45:36   or in case you want to attach them to a couple of pairs.

00:45:39   I think that makes total sense.

00:45:40   My argument that they wouldn't include the adapter was,

00:45:43   I think, I'd have to go back and read the article,

00:45:45   is mostly if they include wireless earbuds in the box,

00:45:48   then they shouldn't include the adapter

00:45:50   because the adapter would be saying,

00:45:51   you should be using wireless wired headphones.

00:45:55   And it's very clear, very clear for me

00:45:58   that the reason that they're not including

00:45:59   wireless headphones is that the AirPods

00:46:01   are too expensive to make.

00:46:03   They need to be in the box, they need to be like

00:46:07   nine, $10 cost of goods.

00:46:10   And the AirPods are way, way,

00:46:14   let's just hold that, we'll go back to the AirPods

00:46:15   later in the show.

00:46:16   Let's try to stick to the event, but we'll come to it.

00:46:19   But bottom line is they had to do it this way

00:46:21   with the AirPods because there's no way

00:46:22   they could sell them at that price.

00:46:24   - I agree, and I said early on that if Apple takes out

00:46:28   the headphone jack, they will include an adapter.

00:46:32   I was pretty sure that they would.

00:46:34   Because they wouldn't want everybody to be,

00:46:38   they're already gonna be screaming enough,

00:46:39   even though they don't know what they're screaming about,

00:46:42   that if they include an adapter, that will just stop it.

00:46:47   - What misled me was that you can get like $30,

00:46:52   Some sets of Bluetooth headsets now are only like 30 bucks,

00:46:56   you know, like, and they're, you know,

00:46:57   just regular old Bluetooth.

00:46:58   And that misled me and thought maybe Apple could make

00:47:01   their own that are like 30 bucks.

00:47:02   But knowing how AirPods work now and that they're both

00:47:06   little computers, they're literally, I mean,

00:47:08   they're not really just headphones.

00:47:09   The W1 is like a computing chip.

00:47:12   They're little computers that are in your ear.

00:47:14   And that is how they do the, you know,

00:47:18   both ears are in sync without a wire between them,

00:47:20   which is a really, really hard problem to solve.

00:47:23   That's why most Bluetooth headphones have some kind of

00:47:25   electrical cable between the left and right

00:47:27   so that they can keep it in sync.

00:47:29   Usually, one of them is the little Bluetooth receiver,

00:47:32   and there's a wire going under your chin

00:47:34   or behind your neck to the other one,

00:47:35   and the other one is literally just as dumb of a headphone

00:47:39   as any headphone.

00:47:40   But they're little computers, and there's no way,

00:47:44   they are not little $30 things.

00:47:46   But anyway, we'll come back to that.

00:47:49   I thought Schiller did a great job.

00:47:51   I thought the courage thing,

00:47:52   I guess it could have been phrased better

00:47:54   because it proved so controversial, but I, you know.

00:47:58   - I think he was absolutely right though,

00:48:00   and for the reasons that you outlined.

00:48:02   It did take a lot of courage to do what they did.

00:48:05   - Whether you agree or disagree with him,

00:48:07   I really, here's the main thing,

00:48:08   and I think this is all the way back

00:48:10   to the first thing you said about Phil on stage,

00:48:12   is that he's honest.

00:48:14   That's, whether you think it's right or wrong,

00:48:16   that's what Phil Schiller believes.

00:48:18   He's not telling you something that's other than

00:48:20   what is actually what he thinks.

00:48:23   - And how can you go wrong with that?

00:48:25   Yeah, I just think it was a good thing.

00:48:29   - All right, let's take a break.

00:48:30   Unless you have anything else for the actual

00:48:32   what happened on stage.

00:48:34   - No, I've had my sea of things.

00:48:35   - Yeah, let's maybe talk hands-on area afterwards.

00:48:38   But let me take a break first and just say,

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00:49:09   - What does it do?

00:49:10   - It's a screen capture utility.

00:49:12   - Oh.

00:49:13   - I'm gonna say Cap2.

00:49:14   - Cap2, yeah.

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00:51:43   Cap2 from Mac.com. Sounds cool. Hands-on area. When did you get in?

00:51:52   I, I, Pansarino and I were way up in the, way up in like the back row of where the

00:51:58   press sat. We literally had my, had my back to the the second level and the

00:52:02   Second level was all Apple people.

00:52:04   So I liked my seat 'cause we were dead center stage,

00:52:07   but it took us forever to get out.

00:52:10   - Yeah, I was down in the bottom section.

00:52:13   - Oh, that's right, I remember where you were sitting.

00:52:14   I do remember, yeah.

00:52:15   - So I get out pretty quick,

00:52:17   and I was among the first in there.

00:52:21   - Yeah, I was really late.

00:52:24   Panzarino and I were,

00:52:26   and there was a big long hallway that they built.

00:52:28   That just blows me away.

00:52:31   In addition to building, what they've done two years

00:52:36   in a row at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium

00:52:40   is build a building in a building.

00:52:42   - Yeah.

00:52:43   - And this time they actually built a hallway.

00:52:46   I linked to it in my thoughts on the show

00:52:48   and I put a photo I took of it,

00:52:50   like a very Kubrickian hallway with white walls,

00:52:53   white floors, really nice lighting.

00:52:55   That was just there for people like me

00:52:59   who weren't gonna, you know,

00:53:00   The hands-on area was way too small to let anybody in,

00:53:02   so there was a long wait while you had,

00:53:05   as people left, they let more in.

00:53:07   So they built a hallway so you'd have

00:53:08   a nice Apple-like experience while waiting in line.

00:53:12   - And that's typical Apple.

00:53:13   I mean, I mentioned it a couple of times

00:53:15   in the reviews that I did,

00:53:18   that their attention to detail is just outstanding.

00:53:21   And that shows it, it's things like that.

00:53:26   They know that you're gonna be standing there,

00:53:27   well, they're not gonna have you standing there

00:53:29   in a concrete brick hallway.

00:53:33   No, they'll build a hallway for you.

00:53:35   - It's a nicer retail area.

00:53:37   I know they weren't selling anything,

00:53:38   but it's sort of set up like a retail Apple store.

00:53:41   It's a nicer retail area than most actual stores

00:53:44   for most companies.

00:53:45   And it was there for two hours.

00:53:49   - Yeah, for a couple hours so that we could walk through

00:53:52   and look at the products.

00:53:53   And there's a lot of Apple employees there

00:53:58   that are there to help and talk to you about things.

00:54:02   It's great.

00:54:03   I love having a great hands-on area.

00:54:08   - I don't understand the people who go in and out.

00:54:13   There's some of the people, I'm not gonna name names,

00:54:16   but there are some people who are in the same racket as us,

00:54:21   who if they get in early, they quick look at everything,

00:54:23   maybe they snap a few photos,

00:54:25   But it's like they have somewhere to go.

00:54:29   And they're like out.

00:54:31   I don't get it.

00:54:32   I mean, I'm not necessarily the last guy left in there.

00:54:34   Although I have been in some events.

00:54:36   I remember with the original iPad, the first iPad,

00:54:40   Dan Morin and I got our hands-- remember

00:54:41   there was a dock with a keyboard?

00:54:43   Yeah.

00:54:44   It's like they kind of, with the smart keyboard,

00:54:47   have circled back to that original idea

00:54:51   that maybe there should be a keyboard with the iPad.

00:54:53   And Dan Morin and I were just playing with this thing.

00:54:55   We're figuring out which keyboard shortcuts were.

00:54:57   And then somebody came up, and they were so nice.

00:54:59   And they were like, guys, we're trying to close.

00:55:02   And we look around, and there's nobody else except Apple boys

00:55:05   in the hands-on area.

00:55:06   Yeah.

00:55:06   Well--

00:55:07   So I'm not always the last.

00:55:08   But I stay until they start-- at least until they start gently

00:55:11   suggesting that people leave, because you can learn so much.

00:55:15   It's not like the Apple people who man the hands-on tables are--

00:55:21   they're from all over the company.

00:55:22   That's one of the things I think some people don't realize

00:55:24   is they're not just like product marketing people.

00:55:27   There's people from the app store,

00:55:29   just people who are good people people, right?

00:55:33   People who are good at answering questions

00:55:35   and being personable, but they come from all over

00:55:38   the company and you can make contacts

00:55:40   and learn, meet interesting people from Apple.

00:55:44   How often do we get a chance to do that?

00:55:46   Not often. - Not often.

00:55:47   And you're right, there are a lot

00:55:50   of interesting people there.

00:55:52   And I always see a lot of friends there, you know,

00:55:55   from Apple, and it's great.

00:55:59   I go in and I try and take as many decent pictures

00:56:04   as I can, but you know, I agree with you that

00:56:10   staying around and being able to use the products,

00:56:14   and you know, once a lot of the people leave,

00:56:17   once they're done with their photos and everything,

00:56:19   there's actually some room in there.

00:56:21   you know, you can walk around.

00:56:24   - Yeah.

00:56:24   - And you do get a better sense of the products

00:56:28   'cause now you can finally stand there and use them.

00:56:31   The one I think is funny is Rennie, Richie.

00:56:35   I mean, he'll stay to the bitter end.

00:56:36   He'll hide so that they have to find him and kick him out

00:56:39   'cause he's doing videos and he's doing,

00:56:41   Rennie is funny.

00:56:43   - Yeah, he checks in like it's a hotel.

00:56:44   - Yeah, exactly.

00:56:46   I texted him the last time, the last event,

00:56:49   I said, "You know, it was probably 3.30 in the afternoon," and I said, "Do you

00:56:54   want to grab a coffee?"

00:56:55   And he said, "I'm still in hands-on."

00:56:57   I said, "Jesus, Ray!

00:56:58   I mean, come on!"

00:57:00   It was funny.

00:57:02   I will say, over time, the hands-on areas have evolved, and it is the changing nature,

00:57:09   you know, Daring Fireball is still the same, and there aren't any photos there, but the

00:57:14   changing nature and obsession with these videos, and especially the videos, but the photos

00:57:19   really changed the nature of the hands-on area.

00:57:21   And it's unfortunate because it's worse.

00:57:24   So many people want to get photos,

00:57:27   and they want their photos to be really, really nice.

00:57:33   So when they finally get a chance to--

00:57:35   you wait around and let's say I want to try the new Jet Black--

00:57:40   I want to get my hands on the Jet Black iPhone.

00:57:43   And you wait, and you wait.

00:57:44   Somebody's in front of you, and they're taking a tour.

00:57:46   product guy or woman from Apple is there.

00:57:49   And they have, they're prepared with like,

00:57:52   three or four things, like what do you wanna see?

00:57:54   Do you wanna see photos?

00:57:55   Here, take a look.

00:57:56   One of the things they did in the hands-on area

00:57:58   for everybody was show you photos

00:58:01   because on the iPhone screen you could see the photos

00:58:04   with the high color gamut, which was,

00:58:07   they emphasized three or four times in the event,

00:58:09   this kinda sucks because our projector here

00:58:11   isn't high color gamut.

00:58:14   So what we're showing you here is not representative

00:58:16   of the photos you can take and what you'll see on screen

00:58:19   on this iPhone because you can't show high color gamut

00:58:23   with a non-high color gamut projector.

00:58:26   So they wanted to show that to people,

00:58:28   and they're prepared with a couple of things like that.

00:58:29   And then you say thank you, I say thanks,

00:58:32   and then step aside so that the next person

00:58:35   can get the same demo, and then in the meantime,

00:58:38   they wipe it off with a white cloth.

00:58:41   When the photo people get there,

00:58:42   It's like they want the phone, and they don't even

00:58:44   want the product tour.

00:58:45   They're not even listening to the things.

00:58:47   They're just trying to set the thing up

00:58:49   so they can take photos, which are exactly

00:58:51   like the photos being taken by 100 other different people who

00:58:55   are there, none of which are going

00:58:57   to be better than the photos that Apple's product marketing

00:59:00   team has already taken and made available to everybody

00:59:03   in the press.

00:59:04   Yep, it's true.

00:59:05   And then the worst part to me is the video people.

00:59:08   I think I've mentioned this in years past, or last year,

00:59:11   or whatever.

00:59:11   but it's getting worse.

00:59:12   'Cause the video people want to,

00:59:15   it's a two-man, two-person team

00:59:17   where there's a camera person and then the talent,

00:59:21   quote, unquote, and the videographers

00:59:25   want to get as far away,

00:59:27   they wanna get a couple feet behind,

00:59:29   but you're at the table.

00:59:31   How many times did you get bumped into?

00:59:32   I got bumped into at least three times.

00:59:35   - It's not just that you get bumped into,

00:59:37   it's that they will push you out of the way.

00:59:38   - Yeah. (laughs)

00:59:41   And you and I, especially you, let's just face it,

00:59:45   you don't look like someone,

00:59:47   I mean, you don't look like someone you wanna push.

00:59:50   I don't look tough, let's face it,

00:59:56   but I am 6'2" and 200 pounds.

00:59:59   - I won't move.

01:00:01   Now I've stopped because like you said,

01:00:04   there's so many of them that are jostling

01:00:07   and trying to push you out of the way.

01:00:10   and things like that, that there was one guy there this time from PCMag, he was doing a

01:00:17   live, maybe a periscope or something.

01:00:20   He was screaming.

01:00:22   He was screaming.

01:00:23   And I was standing there at the table trying to get a product, a demo from the person.

01:00:31   This guy was right beside us, yelling into his phone.

01:00:36   And so I started saying, you know, when I was standing there, because the guy couldn't

01:00:41   give me the demo, he was yelling so loud.

01:00:45   I started saying, like since I was right next to him, "Why is this guy screaming into

01:00:49   his phone so loud?

01:00:50   Why are you screaming into your phone so loud?

01:00:52   Why is this guy doing that?

01:00:53   Why are you screaming?"

01:00:54   And so I just kept talking over him and finally he stopped and went away and then I could

01:00:58   have my product demo.

01:01:00   But yeah, it's, I mean, this is nothing that Apple is doing.

01:01:04   This is how things have changed for us.

01:01:08   Apple tried to stem, tried to dam the creek for a while.

01:01:15   Because for years, they only let you shoot video in designated areas, in the hands-on

01:01:20   areas.

01:01:23   If you remember, when there were hands-on areas in Moscone, when they would do the iPhones

01:01:30   at WWDC and then there was that was when they had a huge area because Moscone is huge right off to the

01:01:36   side in the what's the hallway of Moscone is where they would have the hands-on areas and it was

01:01:42   really I mean like expansive it was you know like in a ballroom more than you know a cramped area

01:01:51   but they would make the video people go off to the side they weren't allowed to shoot video near the

01:01:54   tables right there'd be like black curtains and this you know some lighting over to the side where

01:02:00   where they could shoot their video stuff.

01:02:02   But I think that it's too many people,

01:02:05   if they tried to enforce that now,

01:02:07   they would just spend all of their time

01:02:09   telling people you've got to shoot, it would never stop.

01:02:12   I've spoken to them, they design the hands-on tables now

01:02:15   with way more space between them

01:02:18   than is actually necessary or feels natural,

01:02:21   specifically to accommodate the video people.

01:02:23   But even so, you still get bumped into.

01:02:25   - You still do, well, right?

01:02:26   And it's because they just take up

01:02:28   more and more room all the time.

01:02:30   They used to space them either exactly or very close

01:02:33   to the space between them in an Apple retail store,

01:02:37   but now it's way more spaced apart

01:02:39   than in an Apple retail store

01:02:40   because of these video guys.

01:02:42   All right, I gotta tell you this.

01:02:44   - I'm just gonna keep bumping them back.

01:02:46   - Before I wanted to get, I almost forgot this story.

01:02:49   The last thing about the event was my seat.

01:02:51   I was sitting next to, it was hard to get a seat.

01:02:56   We were among the last people to get seats.

01:02:57   It was me and Jason Snell and Christina Warren,

01:03:00   who were, the three of us were trying to get seats together

01:03:03   and we found them up in this top row in the center,

01:03:05   but no three of the seats were adjacent.

01:03:07   So we gave Christina the first one,

01:03:09   and then we saw Horace Dedue, and he had two seats open,

01:03:13   one on his left, one on his right,

01:03:14   and so Jason took the one and I took the other.

01:03:16   And that's who I was sitting next to in the event.

01:03:19   On my right was this guy, I don't know who he is,

01:03:22   but I was wearing a backpack and I had coffee in my one hand

01:03:27   But because we had the last row,

01:03:28   there was like a shelf above my seat.

01:03:29   I know like that was like the layer

01:03:32   between our layer and the upper layer.

01:03:35   So I thought, hey, that's a good place to put my drink

01:03:36   while I unpack and get this.

01:03:38   'Cause then it won't be on the floor

01:03:39   and I won't kick it over.

01:03:41   And I turn around and I will admit,

01:03:44   when I wear a backpack, I often bump into things.

01:03:47   I have a bad sense of the 3D space

01:03:49   my backpack takes behind me.

01:03:51   And apparently I bumped into the wide brimmed fedora

01:03:56   of the gentleman sitting next to me.

01:03:59   - Oh dear.

01:04:00   - And he said, "Hey bro, you bumped my hat."

01:04:03   And I, (laughs)

01:04:06   and my first thought was to be apologetic.

01:04:08   I'm a nice guy, but the way he said it,

01:04:10   I had a moment where I almost said,

01:04:15   "Well, I am sorry, but on the other hand,

01:04:18   "you could act like a normal gentleman

01:04:20   "and remove your hat and doors."

01:04:22   But I didn't, I didn't say it.

01:04:24   This son of a bitch spent the whole event--

01:04:28   I mean, the whole two hours of the event--

01:04:31   Instagram videoing what was going on on stage

01:04:34   and mumbling into his microphone.

01:04:36   Oh.

01:04:36   Now, he wasn't talking.

01:04:43   He was whispering into his microphone.

01:04:46   But I was sitting right next to him.

01:04:48   And I don't know if it was French-accented English

01:04:54   or French, any other, the other thing too,

01:04:57   is he purposefully shot all of his video

01:04:59   with his iPhone at a 45 degree angle.

01:05:02   (laughing)

01:05:04   So that everything looked like the bad guy layers

01:05:08   in the old Batman TV show.

01:05:10   And he's like, (mumbles)

01:05:13   And I came close a couple times to being like,

01:05:17   you gotta stop.

01:05:18   And it was like every time it seemed like

01:05:20   I was gonna have to say something,

01:05:21   it seemed like he dialed it back

01:05:23   and all of a sudden five minutes will go by

01:05:25   and he wasn't shooting an Instagram video,

01:05:27   but then he'd do it again.

01:05:28   And it's like--

01:05:29   - Yeah, that drives me crazy.

01:05:31   There were people behind me.

01:05:34   I was at the last row in the bottom section.

01:05:37   There were people right behind me

01:05:40   at the start of the second section

01:05:43   that were talking throughout the keynote.

01:05:47   And a couple of times,

01:05:48   I turned around and gave them a dirty look.

01:05:52   I'm here to listen to Tim and Phil, not you.

01:05:56   Shut up.

01:05:57   I can't, I mean, like, why was the guy even there?

01:05:59   I mean, and people could, you know,

01:06:00   anybody who wanted to watch, there's a live stream.

01:06:02   You know what I mean?

01:06:03   - Right.

01:06:04   - I don't get it.

01:06:05   It was really-- - I don't get it.

01:06:06   But people, you know, I go to the keynote to watch them,

01:06:10   and Apple does a good job of making sure

01:06:12   that they put on a great show,

01:06:15   and that we have hands-on areas,

01:06:17   and then these morons come in, you know,

01:06:20   and they talk through a keynote.

01:06:22   Why would you talk through a keynote?

01:06:24   Oh, you know the last one that,

01:06:25   I think it was at town hall,

01:06:27   the last event that was at town hall,

01:06:29   there was a guy from a reporter from China

01:06:33   that talked the entire way through the keynote.

01:06:36   - Right, 'cause he was translating for his audience.

01:06:37   - He was translating the keynote over the phone live.

01:06:41   - They gotta, that's not where you,

01:06:43   if you're gonna do that, watch the video

01:06:45   and go into a room and load up the video

01:06:48   and do it from the video. - Oh my God,

01:06:48   I couldn't believe it.

01:06:49   I nearly lost my mind and he was right behind me.

01:06:53   So at the end of the keynote, when I get up,

01:06:57   I took his picture and tweeted it and said,

01:06:59   you know, what a moron he was.

01:07:01   I don't get, why did, it's like, I tweeted this afternoon,

01:07:06   I said, there's so much stupid shit written about Apple

01:07:10   whenever they release new products.

01:07:12   Why is it that these people that go to these keynotes

01:07:16   are so dumb?

01:07:17   They're dumb.

01:07:19   They talk through the keynote, they push us out of the way so that they can get their,

01:07:24   do their video thing, they scream into their phones for Periscope.

01:07:31   It's just, it's dumb.

01:07:33   Did you get the impression that there were a lot more people from Asia who were there

01:07:38   for this keynote in terms of like, "Hey, who got a seat and who didn't?"

01:07:43   Which is always, you know, inside baseball, you know, in our racket, you know, who gets

01:07:46   invited and who doesn't is there.

01:07:48   And it seemed like invitations, even though the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium is huge,

01:07:53   the press seating area was only on the lower level and only on the one side.

01:07:58   And the whole central stage front section is all VIP seating for Apple and their friends.

01:08:07   So there weren't that many press seats.

01:08:08   And it really seemed to me like the reason that even though it's such a huge auditorium,

01:08:12   that press invitations seem to be somewhat tight,

01:08:17   is that there were so many people from Asia pressing,

01:08:22   I don't know who's press, who's analyst,

01:08:24   but it's just unbelievable.

01:08:27   And it's part of, they used to have simulcasts in Asia

01:08:30   and they don't do it anymore.

01:08:31   Instead they invite them to come to California

01:08:33   and be there live.

01:08:34   It's just, it really seemed like more than ever before.

01:08:39   Well, the whole section where I was was basically Asia, except for Walt Mossberg, René, and

01:08:46   me.

01:08:47   Hmm.

01:08:48   Yeah, and Matt Honan was there, right?

01:08:50   Oh, was he down there too?

01:08:52   Yeah, he was like right on the aisle.

01:08:55   Like had like the leftmost seat.

01:08:57   Oh, I see.

01:08:58   Yeah.

01:08:59   I didn't see Matt.

01:09:00   I saw him outside and, you know.

01:09:02   Well anyway, let's take a break and let me thank our second sponsor, which are good friends,

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01:10:14   I sleep as long and as often as I can.

01:10:18   Sleeping, to me, is one of the great joys of life.

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01:10:26   If you're at home and you go to a hotel

01:10:29   and you're ever in a nice hotel and you say,

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01:10:32   You know what? Why don't you get a great mattress

01:10:34   and have it in your house, right?

01:10:36   If you go to a hotel and find, and I've had this happen,

01:10:39   'cause I used to just use a mattress forever.

01:10:42   You gotta think about it.

01:10:43   Your mattress wears out over time.

01:10:44   It really does.

01:10:45   And if you ever have that experience,

01:10:46   when you go to a hotel or something like that,

01:10:48   and you're like, "Wow, this is a great mattress.

01:10:49   This feels way better than my mattress at home."

01:10:51   Well, why not get one for home

01:10:53   where you are 350 nights a year?

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01:11:26   I don't know.

01:11:27   You spend a lot more than 950.

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01:12:13   - You know who doesn't get mattresses?

01:12:14   - Who?

01:12:15   - Cats.

01:12:16   - Good.

01:12:17   - You know why?

01:12:18   - Why?

01:12:19   - Cats suck.

01:12:20   - Cats suck.

01:12:21   - I hate cats.

01:12:21   - I love dogs.

01:12:22   - I'm probably gonna turn off half my audience here.

01:12:25   - It's all right.

01:12:26   But you know what?

01:12:27   That's part of the reason why cats suck,

01:12:28   'cause you could buy your cat a mattress

01:12:30   and they wouldn't even use it.

01:12:31   - They wouldn't.

01:12:32   They would jump up on your head instead and sleep there.

01:12:34   - Yeah, they'd still sleep on your TV or whatever.

01:12:35   - Yeah.

01:12:36   - Creepin' around.

01:12:37   Dog, you know what a dog's gonna do with a mattress?

01:12:40   Gonna sleep the hell out of it.

01:12:41   - Sleep.

01:12:42   - Dogs know how to sleep.

01:12:43   That's the other thing about dogs.

01:12:44   A good dog will sleep 22 hours a day.

01:12:46   - Oh yeah.

01:12:47   Only get up to go to the bathroom and eat.

01:12:50   - And eat, right? - Yeah.

01:12:51   - And greet you, right?

01:12:52   And the other thing they'll do

01:12:54   is they'll greet you when you come in the door.

01:12:55   unless you come in too late, then they might just

01:12:57   wag their tail and still be sleeping.

01:12:59   - All right, we've got products to talk about.

01:13:00   I don't know if you know, did you know this,

01:13:02   that there's new products that came out?

01:13:04   - Apparently.

01:13:05   - All right, we can talk about them.

01:13:06   But while we're talking about events,

01:13:09   let's speculate, let's jump ahead.

01:13:11   - Okay.

01:13:12   - So, there was no Mac hardware news at the event last week.

01:13:17   They didn't even talk about the software.

01:13:19   Really, Mac was not part of the event.

01:13:21   - You're welcome.

01:13:22   (laughing)

01:13:24   As you predicted, you know, you're very astute.

01:13:29   Now, last year, there was one fall Apple event.

01:13:35   Now, in years prior to that,

01:13:37   there was sort of a TikTok schedule

01:13:40   where there would be a big event in September with iPhones

01:13:43   and then a smaller event in October with other stuff.

01:13:47   And sometimes it was Mac,

01:13:48   I don't even remember what the small event was.

01:13:49   - iPad. - Sometimes iPad.

01:13:52   Usually, September, big event, somewhere big,

01:13:55   like the Flint Center, the one time.

01:13:57   Going back further, years further,

01:14:01   it would be in the Yerba Buena Center

01:14:02   right in downtown San Francisco.

01:14:05   And then the October event was often in town hall,

01:14:08   maybe always in town hall, I don't know.

01:14:10   - Yeah, yeah, maybe.

01:14:11   - Last year, there was just one event for the fall,

01:14:14   and a couple of people at Apple who I spoke to

01:14:17   said that is by design, that the two event thing,

01:14:22   even with a smaller event was a real stress on them.

01:14:27   - I can see that.

01:14:28   - Personnel and time-wise, and it wasn't just like,

01:14:31   oh poor us, we don't want to do the work.

01:14:32   I mean, you know, honestly, I'm not just trying

01:14:35   to blow smoke up their asses.

01:14:36   The people who put on these events for Apple

01:14:38   work their asses off, and they're not afraid of hard work.

01:14:40   It's just that what I heard from a couple people

01:14:42   was that they always felt that with the mid-September

01:14:45   and then mid-October events, that both events suffered,

01:14:48   especially the October event, 'cause it just didn't,

01:14:51   They didn't have enough time to do it right.

01:14:53   And that it was better to put all their eggs in one basket

01:14:55   and do one than to do two.

01:14:57   And secondarily, adding on to that,

01:15:01   when the March event was in town hall,

01:15:04   the one where the 9.7-inch iPad Pro was introduced,

01:15:07   Tim Cook said, "This is probably the last time

01:15:09   "we're gonna have an event here.

01:15:10   "We've had a lot of great history here,

01:15:11   "but we're moving to a new campus next year,"

01:15:13   blah, blah, blah.

01:15:14   - Right.

01:15:15   - So no Mac hardware news,

01:15:19   no event to showcase features in Sierra.

01:15:22   Yet there are, well, A, every single product

01:15:27   in the Mac lineup other than the MacBook One port jobby

01:15:31   is old and outdated, over a year.

01:15:34   I'm not being hyperbolic.

01:15:35   I mean, like MacBook Pros are over a year old.

01:15:38   The Mac Pro literally just passed its thousandth day

01:15:41   since it was updated.

01:15:43   And there is an excellent new version of macOS

01:15:46   that is ready, you know, coming out soon.

01:15:49   Do you think that there's gonna be an October event

01:15:50   where they do max stuff?

01:15:52   - You know,

01:15:53   here's the thing for me with the max.

01:16:03   I think a simpler question is,

01:16:05   do I think that they have max that they'll release

01:16:11   sometime before the holiday shopping season?

01:16:16   Yes.

01:16:17   - I agree.

01:16:18   think my answer to that is is a definite yes. Will they have an event for those Macs? I think

01:16:23   is a more difficult question because like you said, the reasoning for these one event things

01:16:31   is very sound. It's a sound reasoning to cut that out. So if they have an event for

01:16:41   what we would have to think at this point would be Macs because don't forget the iPads were updated

01:16:48   at the last event too. They didn't talk about it, but they were. So this is basically going to be

01:16:54   a Mac event. So are those Macs that they have so good that they'll want to roll them out in

01:17:04   an event as opposed to rolling them out in a press release or do briefings with a number of

01:17:12   of their key people and roll them out like that.

01:17:15   I mean, there are a few things that they could do.

01:17:18   If the Macs are big enough

01:17:21   and they're that confident in them,

01:17:24   then yeah, there'll be an event.

01:17:26   If not, then I think one of the other two options

01:17:29   is the best.

01:17:30   - I think it'll either be an event or it will be briefings.

01:17:35   And then, you know, when they do the briefings,

01:17:36   and they did this, like one of the first ones I remember

01:17:38   was a version of Mac OS X. It might have been 10.7,

01:17:46   somewhere around there.

01:17:47   But it was around March, and they had a mysterious--

01:17:53   they were like, can you-- for me, it was New York.

01:17:56   I don't know where you went.

01:17:57   Maybe you were still going to New York at the time.

01:17:59   But it was, hey, we have something to show you.

01:18:02   Can you make it up Tuesday at noon or 1 o'clock

01:18:05   in the afternoon?

01:18:06   And I was like, well, what's it about?

01:18:08   you know, we want to keep it under wraps. I had no idea what it was. And it was the

01:18:12   time I wrote about it. It was I had a briefing with Phil Schiller and Brian

01:18:16   Kroll from Product Marketing where they showed the next version of Mac OS X. I

01:18:19   think it was 10.7 but it doesn't really matter. But it was off schedule and it

01:18:22   was at a time when the Mac was generally only getting updated every 18 months or

01:18:26   so. Like Mac wasn't, Mac OS wasn't on a yearly schedule. It was at coming off

01:18:31   that time where there were a couple of years where they even said, "Hey, you know,

01:18:35   Mac OS is getting updated slower because we're pulling key people to keep iOS.

01:18:39   The top priority of the company software-wise were annual releases of

01:18:43   iOS. And the Mac, I mean, they admitted it. They even had a PR the one time where

01:18:48   they're like, "We were gonna have Mac OS come out at WWDC, but it's gonna

01:18:51   come out later in the year instead because we're engineering

01:18:54   constrained." And these product briefings were sort of a, "Hey, we're back. We're back

01:19:00   at full steam ahead, and we're doing the Mac every year too, and we've got

01:19:03   here's what's coming, we're gonna try to release this later this year and you know

01:19:07   And they've done that a couple of other times too, but I've the Mac one really stuck out to me

01:19:12   Yeah, and I don't mind that I don't know about you, but I don't mind that well

01:19:17   And it's not as exclusive as it sounds either because they would generally when they do this

01:19:21   Well, I'm back maybe I think every time I know that they've done it

01:19:23   They've they do something in California and Cupertino and then they have another team fly out to New York

01:19:29   Yes, and usually get like a suite of hotel rooms and it's you know

01:19:33   they could have two or three, four, maybe even four teams at a time in parallel

01:19:38   doing it, you know, half an hour at a time so they can fit, you know, each team can

01:19:44   fit, I don't know, 10, 15 briefings in a day, you know, multiplied by three or four

01:19:49   teams, you know, and you can easily, you know, get these briefings out to, you know,

01:19:54   50 to 100 people. Yeah, and I don't even know if they were that big. Yeah, I don't

01:19:59   - I don't know that they did. - It may not be.

01:20:01   Well, there's always so secretive about it.

01:20:02   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:20:03   - You only really know, all you ever really know

01:20:06   is who came before you 'cause you see 'em on the way out

01:20:08   and know who's coming in after you.

01:20:09   - That's exactly right.

01:20:11   Or like I think we did one time,

01:20:13   we bumped into each other walking down the street.

01:20:15   Oh, what are you doing here? (laughs)

01:20:17   - Oh yeah. (laughs)

01:20:19   So I don't know.

01:20:20   I don't know which way to bet though.

01:20:22   I'm kind of betting on briefings.

01:20:29   but I don't wanna make a bet.

01:20:30   I, you know, if you wanted to put money on it,

01:20:33   I wouldn't wanna put up more than $5

01:20:35   if you said you thought it was gonna be an event.

01:20:38   - No more than $5.

01:20:39   - 'Cause the other thing too is I wonder whether for them

01:20:43   it is less effort to do one event in town hall

01:20:47   than to send two teams, you know,

01:20:49   one in New, you know, send a team to New York

01:20:51   and have another team in Cupertino.

01:20:53   I don't know.

01:20:54   - Do you know what?

01:20:55   are some of my favorite events.

01:20:59   - I'm kind of rooting, that's the one thing too,

01:21:01   is I'm rooting for Town Hall

01:21:02   'cause I would like to go one more there.

01:21:04   - I love Town Hall, I really do.

01:21:07   I just-- - And this time,

01:21:09   we'd know it's the last.

01:21:10   - Yeah, that's correct, yeah.

01:21:12   'Cause there are no more products coming.

01:21:13   - Well, I guess we don't know,

01:21:15   it wouldn't be 100% certain 'cause there's a chance

01:21:17   that construction would be significantly delayed

01:21:19   and a March event that they might wanna have next year

01:21:22   couldn't be held on the new campus.

01:21:23   I kind of get the feeling like if they have a March event, it's going to be at the new campus.

01:21:27   Pete: Yeah.

01:21:29   Pete; And I know, you can just tell by looking at it, there is no

01:21:33   chance in hell that an event next month is going to be at the new campus.

01:21:35   Pete; No, no, no. No, you can't. They wouldn't do that, but,

01:21:38   I, what, the important thing, I think, is the very first question. Is there, are there max

01:21:48   going to be available, new max, before the end of the year? Yes.

01:21:52   - Yes. - I think yes.

01:21:53   - Yes, so-- - But I think MacBook Pro,

01:21:56   for sure. - Yes.

01:21:58   - And I think part of the reason that Tim Cook said,

01:22:00   I think this is, you know, in March,

01:22:01   that this'll probably be the last time we meet here,

01:22:03   is I really do think that Apple at that time

01:22:05   thought that MacBook Pros would be out by WWDC.

01:22:08   But maybe I'm wrong, 'cause maybe there's a design aspect

01:22:10   of this new Mac that is like tied into AirPods

01:22:13   or something like that.

01:22:14   - Well, see, that's the whole thing.

01:22:18   are these Macs big enough that they'll hold an event?

01:22:22   And that's what we don't know because, you know,

01:22:26   there's rumors and stuff, but you never know, I mean.

01:22:30   - Are they gonna update the Mac Pro?

01:22:33   I think they either have to update it or kill it.

01:22:36   - The Mac Pro?

01:22:37   - Yeah. - Oh yeah.

01:22:39   - I mean, a thousand day old computer is, again,

01:22:42   I know it's not their bread and butter.

01:22:45   I know that it's actually the opposite.

01:22:47   financially speaking, the iPhone is 60%

01:22:50   of the company's revenue,

01:22:51   and Mac Pro is some immeasurably slim thing.

01:22:53   But if you're gonna have a personal computing platform

01:22:58   for professionals like the Mac,

01:23:00   there needs to be professional hardware to run on it.

01:23:02   - And doesn't that bring you into something else

01:23:03   with something like the Mac Pro or even the Mac Mini?

01:23:06   You need a screen.

01:23:07   I don't wanna go buy a screen from HP or,

01:23:11   I want an Apple screen.

01:23:12   - Well, and I want the screen, it doesn't make any sense.

01:23:14   I'm not gonna buy a Mac Pro anyway.

01:23:16   I'm almost certainly gonna run iMacs

01:23:18   until they stop making iMacs,

01:23:19   'cause I don't need the performance, I really don't,

01:23:21   and I love just having one less thing

01:23:23   to hook up to another thing.

01:23:25   But it doesn't make any sense to me

01:23:26   that if you buy a $12,000 Mac Pro

01:23:29   that you can't hook it up to a display

01:23:30   as nice as you get on a $3,000 iMac.

01:23:33   - Right, right.

01:23:34   - Well, I don't even know what the entry level iMac is,

01:23:37   but it doesn't make any sense

01:23:40   that you can get a better display

01:23:42   with professional high color gamut and all this stuff.

01:23:45   And that's a very good point.

01:23:47   Don't forget, these are wide color gamut displays.

01:23:50   So you're actually getting something that's better

01:23:53   than what most people have,

01:23:55   but yet you can't get it with the Mac Pro.

01:23:57   But maybe their thought is that people that use the Mac Pro

01:24:01   don't actually use displays,

01:24:03   and they don't use them like that.

01:24:04   - Yes, they do, because they're photographers

01:24:06   and videographers, right?

01:24:07   If you're doing professional video editing,

01:24:09   of course you want it a Mac Pro,

01:24:10   and of course you want the high color gamut display.

01:24:14   And if you're a professional photographer,

01:24:15   of course you want it.

01:24:16   - That's, yeah.

01:24:17   I would use it for audio.

01:24:19   I mean, I use an iMac and I love this iMac,

01:24:23   but if I had the choice, yeah,

01:24:25   I'd get a Mac Pro and a big display and do my stuff.

01:24:30   - I love making fun of people who put the word finally

01:24:34   in their headlines about Apple

01:24:36   in completely inappropriate ways.

01:24:37   But this is a, and one of the reasons why

01:24:40   is that if you overuse a word,

01:24:41   the word ceases to have meaning.

01:24:43   Right.

01:24:46   This is a case where if--

01:24:48   let's just say if in October they release a new Mac Pro

01:24:52   with modern Intel hardware.

01:24:55   And I think the place where it's most dated by far

01:24:59   isn't even the CPU, even though the CPU is three years old.

01:25:02   But the graphics, the graphics capabilities of the Mac Pro,

01:25:06   the graphics chips have made tremendous increases

01:25:10   in the last three years.

01:25:11   And a 5K cinema display that has,

01:25:15   or whatever they're gonna call it, display,

01:25:18   that has a wide color gamut and is beautiful.

01:25:21   That's the case where the word finally is exactly right.

01:25:26   - Yeah, you can't argue with that.

01:25:28   You really can't. - So I hope so.

01:25:29   And I have absolutely zero scuttlebutt.

01:25:31   Nothing I've heard from any little birdies

01:25:33   has told me that any of this stuff is coming.

01:25:35   Well, Mac Pros, MacBook Pros,

01:25:37   we know we've heard are coming.

01:25:38   Gurman's had reports on 'em,

01:25:40   and a lot of people have heard stuff about Macbook Pros.

01:25:43   I haven't heard anything about the Mac Pro, though.

01:25:44   - No, me neither.

01:25:45   - It's almost terrifying to me that I haven't.

01:25:48   Because it makes me worry that my expectation

01:25:51   that it's coming is simply based on my hopes.

01:25:55   And the hopes of daring Fireball readers

01:25:57   and talk show listeners who I know are waiting for it.

01:26:02   - Well, and you're not alone in that.

01:26:05   My readers have had the same reaction.

01:26:09   emailing and and Twitter and everything else that you know what have you heard

01:26:14   about this you know you know I know is that it's I look at the Mac rumors

01:26:19   buying guidance as it's thousand and two days old so you better be coming let

01:26:25   me take a break here and we'll talk about the actual products and I thank

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01:28:45   that has never won any awards.

01:28:48   All right.

01:28:49   (laughing)

01:28:51   The products themselves.

01:28:58   - I mean, again, I don't wanna complain,

01:29:01   but I can complain to you.

01:29:02   - All right.

01:29:03   Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.

01:29:06   - I have a great job.

01:29:07   You have a great job.

01:29:08   We are lucky.

01:29:11   As we record this, everybody who's ever gonna end up

01:29:13   listening to it is wondering what it is like

01:29:16   to hold the new iPhones.

01:29:18   What's it like to feel the jet black?

01:29:19   What does it look like?

01:29:21   What's the camera like in the iPhone 7 Plus?

01:29:24   Everybody wants to know what does it look like

01:29:26   when you go and hit the 2X button

01:29:28   and you're looking through the second lens.

01:29:29   Everybody's curious, everybody's dying.

01:29:31   Maybe by the time they listen, if they pre-ordered,

01:29:34   they'll have them, they're showing up tomorrow.

01:29:36   You and I both know the answers to all those questions.

01:29:39   What a great job.

01:29:41   If I didn't have this job, I would wish that I had it.

01:29:44   I used to be jealous, like when I read

01:29:46   about the original iPhone, I wish that I was one

01:29:48   of the guys who got to use it before everybody else.

01:29:50   And now I do, I get to use it before everybody else.

01:29:54   That said, getting two phones and a brand new Apple Watch

01:30:02   and an all new headphone and being given five days

01:30:07   to review them before the embargo goes up,

01:30:12   it is pretty hard.

01:30:14   Well--

01:30:15   I actually-- I'm telling you the goddamn truth.

01:30:17   Now, part of this is I cut a fingernail too short

01:30:20   on my left ring finger.

01:30:23   I hurt my finger typing this week.

01:30:25   I suffered like a work-related injury.

01:30:27   I need--

01:30:28   (laughing)

01:30:30   I actually hurt myself.

01:30:36   - Oh, man.

01:30:38   - I mean, I've written, I swear to God,

01:30:39   I've written something like eight or 9,000 words this week.

01:30:42   - We'll take out a Kickstarter or something for you.

01:30:47   - Let me insert my usual disclaimer

01:30:51   that my mom's father was a coal miner.

01:30:54   He spent his entire career digging coal out of mountains

01:30:59   in central Pennsylvania and wound up dying

01:31:01   of black lung disease.

01:31:03   - And you cut your fingernail too short.

01:31:07   - I am his grandson.

01:31:09   I think if he knew what I was doing

01:31:12   and how many people listen to my podcast

01:31:16   and how many people read my site, he would be so proud.

01:31:18   He would be delighted.

01:31:20   He really was your stereotypical,

01:31:23   he was a first generation,

01:31:24   he came over from the Ukraine when he was like a baby.

01:31:28   And he was the stereotypical immigrant American

01:31:32   who wanted nothing but for his children

01:31:35   and their children to have better and better lives.

01:31:37   And that is exactly what's going on with me and my sister.

01:31:39   He'd be so proud.

01:31:40   But here I am complaining about my finger that hurts here

01:31:46   'cause I cut a fingernail too short

01:31:48   and had to type 7,000 words.

01:31:50   So about thousand dollar cell phones. You know what you remind me of? You remind me of that

01:31:55   GE commercial where they put a hammer on the table and said you can't lift the hammer, can you?

01:31:59   Did you ever see that? Yeah. That's, yeah.

01:32:05   You know, like the Goodfella scene when he takes her, takes Lorraine Bracco into the Copacabana

01:32:13   and then, you know, and they get the table put out right in front of the front row and she's like,

01:32:18   "What do you do?"

01:32:20   And he goes, "I'm a union delegate."

01:32:21   I don't know, she goes, "I'm in construction."

01:32:23   And she feels his hands, right,

01:32:26   where the calluses should be,

01:32:27   and she goes, "Your hands don't feel like

01:32:29   you work in construction."

01:32:30   And he says, "I'm a union delegate."

01:32:32   (laughing)

01:32:34   Right?

01:32:35   If you took my hands and just felt for calluses,

01:32:38   you wouldn't say, "It feels like I'm a hard worker."

01:32:41   (laughing)

01:32:42   - But you did engineer yourself this week.

01:32:45   - It's hard to review.

01:32:46   I really felt the pressure, especially with the phones.

01:32:49   I like to take more time.

01:32:50   I wish I could have two weeks.

01:32:52   And not because I want to take two weeks to write,

01:32:54   it's like, I want to settle in with the devices before.

01:32:56   And it's really hard, especially with two phones,

01:32:58   and especially with two phones

01:33:00   that are fundamentally different.

01:33:01   - Well, I could only,

01:33:04   I mean, like the camera,

01:33:07   most of what I focused on with the camera

01:33:10   was focused on the plus with the zoom.

01:33:15   because you're kind of rushing at that point, because you leave the next day,

01:33:22   and you get everything set up, and then the next day, and your time is running short.

01:33:30   So, I try and do the best I can and give the best thoughts that I can on it, but I really enjoy both

01:33:39   of them. Both. And you know what? Somebody asked me today, "Which phone do you think I should get?

01:33:49   Should I get the one with the plus for the two times camera?" And I know for a fact that this

01:33:59   person hates the bigger phone. You know, when it came to the 6 or the 6 plus, they went for the 6

01:34:06   because they hated the bigger phone they've just they saw no use for the bigger phone

01:34:10   and and my response back to them was i know you don't like the bigger phone so

01:34:17   think about this do you want to use a bigger phone 24 hours a day for those few times that you'll use

01:34:25   the telephoto camera

01:34:27   i don't think so i don't think that you do but that's kind of how to look at it and it is a much

01:34:36   harder this year than the previous years. The two previous years, there was a photographic advantage

01:34:42   to the Plus models, which was that it had optical image stabilization. And they made it even better

01:34:46   last year. The first year with the 6, the optical image stabilization was only for still photos. And

01:34:51   then last year, the Plus did optical image stabilization for video. It's a big deal. It

01:34:57   really does work. It does increase in photo terms. It gives you at least, I think, at least two stops.

01:35:04   I think Apple advertises it as three stops. I think it's very fair to say that for most people

01:35:10   in their ability to hold a camera still, you'll get at least two stops from optical

01:35:14   image stabilization. What does stops mean? It means that you can get an in-focus,

01:35:20   not blurry picture with less light. Or if you're shooting out of a moving car or something like

01:35:28   that, you'll be able to take a steadier picture. I try. It's exactly what-- optical image

01:35:34   limit stabilization is a feature that is exactly it's it's perfectly

01:35:37   named.

01:35:37   I try and never does shoot out of a moving car, but you know,

01:35:40   it works. It does work. I think personally, especially in typical,

01:35:46   like just regular person going about their daily life, shooting stuff with

01:35:50   their phone, the optical limits, stage stabilization for video is even more

01:35:54   important than for stills because it works all the time. So like, just like

01:35:58   when you're shooting something with video and you're walking and there's

01:36:01   that just even that no matter how steady you try

01:36:04   to hold the camera, you get this camera shake.

01:36:06   The optical image stabilization, when you just like

01:36:08   just walk down the sidewalk and trying to keep it steady,

01:36:13   the difference between with and without optical

01:36:15   image stabilization is night and day.

01:36:17   It looks like the difference between like a consumer camera

01:36:20   and a thousand dollar pro camera.

01:36:21   One of the tests I did, I don't publish these things

01:36:25   because I just don't have time.

01:36:26   I just try to focus on words and I know other people

01:36:29   We'll show examples.

01:36:29   But I took my 6S, which does not have optical image

01:36:33   stabilization, and the 7, just the regular 7,

01:36:36   so it would be the exact same size.

01:36:38   And I held them back right next to each other so that the--

01:36:43   imagine this.

01:36:44   Put the glass of the 6 right on the back of the 7

01:36:48   so that the camera lenses are as close as

01:36:50   possible without one of the lenses obstructing the other.

01:36:55   Start shooting video with both of them,

01:36:57   and then just walk down the sidewalk,

01:36:59   and then come back in, load 'em up on a computer,

01:37:01   and watch 'em.

01:37:02   The difference between A and B is just huge.

01:37:05   It's a huge factor, and it was tempting.

01:37:07   But it wasn't enough for me to get the big phone

01:37:09   the last two years.

01:37:10   But now that it has the new lens system, boy,

01:37:12   I am absolutely, honestly, I'm telling you right now, Jim,

01:37:15   I haven't ordered a phone for myself yet,

01:37:16   'cause I don't know what to get.

01:37:18   - I think, for me, a lot of it is use,

01:37:24   And I need reading glasses now.

01:37:28   So the plus is, it has to be the plus for me.

01:37:34   Because if I pick up the 7, I have trouble seeing it.

01:37:38   What do you do for that?

01:37:40   I'm in the same boat.

01:37:42   I'm in the same boat I've talked about on the show

01:37:44   before.

01:37:44   I need reading glasses too, at least when I have my contacts

01:37:46   in.

01:37:47   What do you do?

01:37:47   Do you go to Zoom mode so that you're running it

01:37:49   at the same effective resolution as the smaller one?

01:37:52   or do you just go in and bump the text size up?

01:37:55   (laughing)

01:37:56   - This is terrible, but I do both.

01:37:59   (laughing)

01:38:01   All right, I mean, yeah, I do both.

01:38:04   I bump the text size up and I use the zoom mode

01:38:09   because it's just, I need that.

01:38:14   I wanna be able to pick up my phone

01:38:20   and just be able to look at it to see a message,

01:38:22   if a message comes in, that's what I want.

01:38:25   But even with Zoom and bigger text,

01:38:29   'cause bigger text doesn't work for everything.

01:38:32   So even with the bigger text, I still, a lot of times,

01:38:37   have to pick up my glasses to actually see what's there.

01:38:40   With the Plus, I can usually just pick it up

01:38:43   and look at it and say, oh, okay.

01:38:45   - I know that it makes me sound like I'm older

01:38:49   than I actually am even.

01:38:51   My eyes are older, you know, my close vision

01:38:55   is worse than my age should be.

01:38:57   I'm actually like behind, so it makes me sound old.

01:39:00   And I remember being young, and you know,

01:39:02   anybody who looks at Daring Fireball knows

01:39:03   that as a designer, I love small type.

01:39:05   I love it aesthetically, I do.

01:39:07   I like small, and I used to like to do stuff

01:39:09   when I was editor of school paper,

01:39:11   where we'd make little, like to fill in the empty ad spots,

01:39:13   we'd make little house ads for the paper itself,

01:39:16   and I would just fill them with tiny little,

01:39:18   literally like five or six point type in footnotes. I loved it. So I resisted bumping the text size

01:39:28   up as long as I could because I like it, but then once I gave in, but I'll tell you what, I want to

01:39:31   say something. I don't know how many people from Apple listen to the show, but I've been thinking

01:39:35   about this a lot lately as I experiment with what's best for me with, you know, reading glasses or

01:39:43   just not wearing my contacts and using regular glasses because then I can just take my glasses

01:39:46   often I can see I can see anything with my glasses off small print the the the

01:39:51   text sizing feature in in iOS where you go to display and brightness text size

01:39:59   and you can get to the same setting through the accessibility too and and it

01:40:03   says apps that to support dynamic type will adjust your preferred reading size

01:40:06   below it's not just that it makes text size bigger a lot of places but

01:40:11   especially I think starting in iOS 9 and in iOS 10 it's even better it's not just

01:40:16   the text is bigger, but the way it flows makes it look like it's exactly right.

01:40:21   Like, when they first introduced this feature a couple years ago and I played with it, I

01:40:26   was like, "Well, this is a great accessibility feature, and people who have vision problems

01:40:29   will really appreciate it."

01:40:30   I have a friend who has really terrible eyes.

01:40:32   I mean, maybe like it's like he's on the spectrum of being blind.

01:40:36   Not blind like you can't see, but like he really blows it up.

01:40:39   Like he goes to the accessibility where there's like it's beyond the top setting.

01:40:44   there's a special, like, "Hey, do you want to expose super big, almost ludicrously large type?"

01:40:50   He blows it up to there, and it's like a game changer for him, because even though it's

01:40:54   ridiculously big, he has absolutely no trouble reading text messages anymore. It's like,

01:40:58   changed his life. So I'm nowhere near that bad. I just need 1.00 reading glasses.

01:41:03   But I'll tell you what, I really appreciate, as somebody who appreciates fine design and was

01:41:08   resistant to this because I didn't want my iPhone to look worse because I was using big type,

01:41:13   it blows me away how I can go two clicks bigger on the type,

01:41:16   three clicks bigger even,

01:41:18   and everything still looks like it's nicely designed.

01:41:21   - Yes, yeah, I agree. - It looks beautiful to me.

01:41:23   And I look at my son's iPhone,

01:41:25   and his is running at the stock default size

01:41:28   'cause he's 12 years old and his eyes are perfect.

01:41:31   I look at his now and it almost looks to me aesthetically,

01:41:34   just judging as to whether it's pleasing,

01:41:35   not whether I can read it,

01:41:36   but whether it's pleasing or not.

01:41:37   It actually looks too small to me.

01:41:39   (laughing)

01:41:40   So I really, I just wanna say,

01:41:42   If anybody who works on these accessibility features at Apple and the dynamic sizing stuff

01:41:46   that accommodates them, I can only imagine how hard that is to design something that

01:41:52   looks good at widely varying text sizes.

01:41:55   I've designed many things in my life, and it's really hard to do that, and I really

01:41:58   appreciate it.

01:41:59   And I'll tell you what.

01:42:00   It's like what you just said about running in ZoomDone.

01:42:02   When you run into an app that doesn't use dynamic type, I want to smash my iPhone.

01:42:06   Uber, I'm looking at you.

01:42:08   - The Uber app, I really, I have to get

01:42:11   like a magnifying glass.

01:42:12   - I know.

01:42:13   Yeah, I've been having, I, it's,

01:42:17   this is the type of stuff that I was talking about earlier

01:42:20   with, you know, the retention to detail.

01:42:24   - Yeah.

01:42:25   - That other companies just don't do.

01:42:28   - The fact that they clearly have a team

01:42:30   that spent so much time system-wide across so many apps,

01:42:33   I have noticed one bug where mail sometimes goes back,

01:42:36   Mail on iOS goes back to smaller type,

01:42:39   and it confuses me because sometimes you get email

01:42:42   that's just styled text,

01:42:43   the person isn't sending plain text.

01:42:45   And I thought, oh, they just picked a small font

01:42:47   and it's picking it up.

01:42:47   But then I realized like two or three messages in a row

01:42:49   are too small, and I force quit mail and relaunch it,

01:42:52   and all of a sudden the same message

01:42:53   has the text that I prefer.

01:42:55   So I've noticed that mail, there must be just a bug

01:42:57   where it somehow loses track of the dynamic size.

01:43:00   But system-wide, messages, mail, Safari, ReaderView,

01:43:04   they pick up this thing and it just looks great

01:43:06   and I can read it and it's great.

01:43:08   Well, I don't need that.

01:43:09   So I don't have a preference.

01:43:09   I will say this after spending some time with both

01:43:11   and spending the last year on the regular 6S size.

01:43:14   My eyes are not at the point where I need

01:43:18   the bigger phone just for reading,

01:43:19   but I certainly, I'm at the point now

01:43:21   where when you say that you do,

01:43:23   I know exactly what you mean.

01:43:25   And if anybody out there is listening

01:43:26   who doesn't, count your blessings.

01:43:28   Whether if you're young, appreciate it while you have it.

01:43:32   I do think, one thing about my vision

01:43:34   and as it's getting worse as I get older,

01:43:36   I do feel that I didn't waste my youth with perfect vision.

01:43:39   I feel like I actually appreciated it while I had it.

01:43:43   - So did I.

01:43:44   - Oh my God, I told you I was sitting next to Horace Dej,

01:43:47   who in the thing, and he's making these

01:43:49   numbers spreadsheets live, like based on the numbers

01:43:52   that Tim Cook and Jeff Williams are giving,

01:43:54   he's posting these, he's so amazing in numbers.

01:43:58   - I know.

01:43:59   - Honest to God, I would just like to have a video feed

01:44:02   of him just working in numbers for half an hour.

01:44:04   But his number is spreadsheet.

01:44:07   It's like this expansive canvas that he pans across,

01:44:10   and he's got all these charts.

01:44:12   It's not like a bunch of different sheets.

01:44:13   It's like one big sheet with a whole bunch of sections.

01:44:16   And everything is at like six point type.

01:44:18   (laughing)

01:44:19   - Oh my God.

01:44:20   (laughing)

01:44:23   So I could basically sit beside him as a spy

01:44:25   and never get anything.

01:44:27   - No, to me it looked just like a bunch of dots,

01:44:29   like a little ants on screen.

01:44:31   (laughing)

01:44:33   Did you get, I think everybody might have gotten seated,

01:44:36   everybody who got review units, from what I could sell,

01:44:38   got the exact same two phones.

01:44:40   Jet black iPhone 7, regular black iPhone 7 Plus.

01:44:44   - Yes.

01:44:45   - I think everybody got the same ones.

01:44:47   To my knowledge, nobody, other than in the hands-on area,

01:44:51   has seen a jet black iPhone 7 Plus.

01:44:53   - I actually like the matte black better.

01:44:56   - I can totally see it.

01:44:58   I'm also, to this point, I am still torn

01:45:02   on both quadrants.

01:45:03   I don't know which finish to get

01:45:05   and I don't know which size to get.

01:45:07   - No, you know, honest to God, I haven't ordered.

01:45:09   - You brought up a good point about the blemishes

01:45:14   that could happen to the jet black one.

01:45:18   It is a gloss finish.

01:45:20   Of course, when showing a picture on stage,

01:45:24   I fell in love with the jet black

01:45:26   when they were showing it in the keynote

01:45:27   because it's just so shiny and gorgeous.

01:45:30   felt like a crow, you know, ooh, something shiny. I want that. But when I get back into the hands-on

01:45:37   area and I saw the matte finish, I love that. It's just so subtle.

01:45:45   I don't think that their initial batch of product photography does it justice.

01:45:50   It does not.

01:45:51   I think that they're—I'm talking about the flat black, matte black, regular black, whatever you

01:45:55   want to call it. In their product photography, especially what they showed us on stage, and I

01:46:00   I don't know if this was made worse by the fact that it was a projection, but it looked

01:46:04   like very dark gray. Not that it didn't look good, but that when you see it in person,

01:46:10   it is clearly black.

01:46:11   Yes, it is black.

01:46:13   I had the feeling when we watched the event, I still thought they both looked good, but

01:46:19   I thought, "Oh, I thought that's a stretch calling that black." And I know that one

01:46:23   of the reasons I thought that it's a stretch is I know that black is a very hard color

01:46:27   to anodize on aluminum. And that's why they abandoned what they called slate with the five

01:46:34   to go to the much lighter, it's actually more like a dark silver, what they call space gray.

01:46:39   Pete: Right.

01:46:39   Jon: But when you see it in person, it is absolutely, positively legit black.

01:46:44   Pete; Yeah. And it's stunning, I thought. So, I'm not worried about

01:46:49   the little blemishes that may come up in a phone. I wouldn't, I don't use a case,

01:46:56   I have keys in my pocket. I have a lighter in my pocket. I would put the phone in there and it would

01:47:01   get scratched all to crap, but I don't care about that. I play guitar. I have some expensive guitars.

01:47:08   I play them and my belt buckle scrapes on them and I don't care about that either.

01:47:14   I want to use it and I want to use the best one. So, that isn't a consideration for me. That will

01:47:21   be a consideration for a lot of people. I think the fact that blood message will show up so easily

01:47:28   on that phone and Apple does warn you about that. I mean they're very clear about it so it's going

01:47:34   to happen but I just overall the look of the black over the jet black I'm sitting here looking at it

01:47:42   now and I'm just you know I'm just admiring it. Here's an interesting thing I didn't mention in my

01:47:49   review but I thought it was really interesting is on the on the regular

01:47:54   black the Apple logo I think it's actually just like previously it's it's

01:47:58   a stainless steel insert I think but it is it's super high glossed you know the

01:48:02   Apple logo yes and the Apple logo pops off the back on the jet black it's

01:48:09   actually you actually have to put it in the right light to even see the Apple

01:48:13   logo it is it is the first iPhone ever where I think that's true like in most

01:48:19   I'm sitting here playing with it now. It's sort of getting towards dusk is here

01:48:22   But at most angles I can't even see the Apple logo on the back because the Apple logo is shiny too

01:48:29   It is also it is different. It's not you know, there is an Apple logo and you can feel it

01:48:34   So I think it's also a stainless steel insert like I can rub my finger over and I feel the edges of the Apple logo

01:48:39   But in most lighting angles if it's not if you're not catching the light to get a reflection. You don't see the Apple logo

01:48:45   I didn't even notice that I'm gonna have to go look

01:48:48   I don't know that that's a reason for anybody to buy it or not buy it, you know

01:48:52   but it's just an interesting thing to me that you know, I

01:48:55   Don't know because I don't think they've ever made an iPhone before where the iPhone where the Apple doesn't pop on the back

01:49:00   Yeah, I think you're right

01:49:02   What do you think about the feel?

01:49:04   This is by far and away

01:49:06   The number one question I got last week is is the jet black slippery and me too and I was actually surprised

01:49:14   with how tactile was.

01:49:16   Pete: It looks like a wet bar soap.

01:49:18   [Laughter]

01:49:18   Yes, it does. It does. And you know, you posted on Twitter about how it kind of

01:49:25   stuck to your skin or you posted something like that and I thought, you know what, that's exactly

01:49:32   right. And it looks like you're going to pick it up and it's going to just pop right out of your

01:49:37   hand and, you know, smash. But it sticks to your hand. I mean -

01:49:42   - I don't know, I wonder, I'm really curious,

01:49:45   I can't wait, this is one of the things I can't wait

01:49:47   until tomorrow when thousands of people start getting them

01:49:50   to see if everybody agrees with that

01:49:52   or if it has something to do with my skin.

01:49:54   My hands, I don't think I, you've shaken my hand before.

01:49:57   I wouldn't say that I have sweaty hands,

01:50:00   but my hands naturally are nice and moist.

01:50:04   They feel like I use nice moisturizer.

01:50:06   - Am I gonna have to give you my visa number here

01:50:09   or something?

01:50:10   I'm just saying though, maybe I just,

01:50:12   I'm just curious if people who have, let's say,

01:50:15   dry hands, which I don't have,

01:50:17   I don't suffer from dry hands,

01:50:19   I wonder if people who have dry hands will find it slippery.

01:50:21   Because I have seen, most people seem to agree with me

01:50:24   that it is a grippy phone, it's a grippy texture,

01:50:27   but Marques Brownlee, MKBHD,

01:50:31   he called it slippery in his Hands On area video,

01:50:38   and he called it slippery in his unboxing

01:50:41   when he got a review unit on Wednesday.

01:50:43   - Really?

01:50:44   - So I don't know, maybe he has dry hands?

01:50:46   I stand behind the fact that it's the grippiest phone

01:50:51   I've ever felt.

01:50:52   - Yeah.

01:50:53   - Or iPhone I've ever felt a week later,

01:50:56   but I just wonder whether there's any variance

01:50:59   between dryness of hands and that reaction.

01:51:02   - The Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is actually more grippier

01:51:05   than this, but that's because it blows up, so.

01:51:07   (laughing)

01:51:08   - Well, it's hard to hold a phone that's on fire.

01:51:10   (laughing)

01:51:11   Hey, did you see that they actually just initiated

01:51:14   the formal recall?

01:51:15   - I did.

01:51:16   - I can't, I mean, I don't wanna, I don't like,

01:51:19   I have tried to make as little hay over this as possible

01:51:22   on Karen Firewall. - Me too.

01:51:23   - Because I don't understand it,

01:51:24   I don't know how widespread it is, and I wonder,

01:51:26   I mean, say what you want about Samsung

01:51:28   as like a copycat company,

01:51:30   and I really don't like them in that regard.

01:51:32   I really do feel that they're sort of,

01:51:36   You know, well, like your feelings on Pharrell,

01:51:38   that's how I feel about Samsung.

01:51:40   I don't like, and when they are original,

01:51:42   I tend to find it distasteful.

01:51:44   I don't really like, I just, I'm not a fan of the company.

01:51:49   I don't know, maybe they just shock the people.

01:51:51   But I think engineering-wise, they're very, very competent.

01:51:56   I mean, in fact, they make chips that are used

01:51:59   in the iPhone. - Yep.

01:52:00   - You can't knock 'em on engineering quality.

01:52:04   So there's this aspect to this that says,

01:52:07   there but for the grace of God goes any company,

01:52:09   including Apple, you know, that this sort of,

01:52:11   I don't know, I don't know,

01:52:13   maybe we'll find out in the long run

01:52:14   that there was some slipshod engineering in there,

01:52:19   maybe like there were warnings that were ignored,

01:52:22   you know, I don't know.

01:52:23   There could be the case,

01:52:24   it could be the case that no,

01:52:25   this wouldn't happen to Apple because at Apple,

01:52:27   or you know, just insert another company here,

01:52:30   Lenovo or whoever you want to say

01:52:33   has a good reputation where if engineer said,

01:52:35   "Hey, this battery with this many milliamps,

01:52:39   whatever the problem is with this battery,

01:52:40   this is gonna be a problem.

01:52:41   This is outside specs, maybe, or maybe,

01:52:44   maybe this is, who knows what the explanation is.

01:52:47   So I don't wanna make hay over it."

01:52:48   But that said, boy, this is a fiasco.

01:52:51   - Now, how do things work in the US?

01:52:52   When the safety regulators issue a recall,

01:52:57   do they follow that up with an investigation?

01:53:00   So will Samsung be asked to hand over papers

01:53:03   to show that there were some negligence?

01:53:05   I think it's absolutely 100% inevitable

01:53:08   that they're going to suffer a class action lawsuit,

01:53:10   and it's all going to come out then.

01:53:11   Now, whether the government will initiate on their own,

01:53:13   I honestly don't know.

01:53:15   I don't know.

01:53:15   I think that they might.

01:53:16   I think the US Consumer Product Safety Commission will probably

01:53:19   investigate it on their own.

01:53:20   But it's going to get investigated by the class

01:53:23   action lawsuit.

01:53:23   Did you see the thing-- here's the other thing, too.

01:53:26   Again, Samsung-- is the fact that they're having

01:53:31   this problem in the first place.

01:53:32   Man, you know, remember 20 years ago,

01:53:34   there was a PowerBook that had a problem with batteries.

01:53:36   Somebody's battery on one of the,

01:53:38   it was like the PowerBook 5300, I think,

01:53:40   that had a, you know, but there were only like

01:53:42   one or two cases of it happening.

01:53:44   It was certainly far less frequent with this,

01:53:46   but on the other hand, Apple sold far fewer PowerBook 5300s

01:53:50   than Samsung sells Galaxy Note 7s.

01:53:52   But again, happened to Apple once with the PowerBook.

01:53:55   The engineering and design problems that led to this,

01:53:59   let's leave those aside

01:54:00   because we can't pass judgment on them right now.

01:54:02   Public relations wise,

01:54:04   I think Samsung is absolutely botching this.

01:54:07   I think what they should do is just say,

01:54:10   okay, all of them right now, send them back.

01:54:13   Every single one, whether it's in retail,

01:54:15   whether it's already been sold, unsold,

01:54:17   if it's in a warehouse, if it's in a Verizon store,

01:54:20   send them all back to us, every single one of them,

01:54:23   and we will make things right somehow.

01:54:25   I don't know what making it right is.

01:54:27   I don't know if it's giving everybody their money back.

01:54:28   I don't know if it's giving them a different phone,

01:54:30   if it's asking them, hey, you can either

01:54:33   take your money back now or wait

01:54:34   and we'll get you a fixed Galaxy Note 7 in six weeks,

01:54:38   whatever it is, but that's what they should do.

01:54:40   What they're doing now is ridiculous.

01:54:42   Did you see the thing where they were gonna put them

01:54:44   in a mode where it only charges the 60%?

01:54:46   - Oh my gosh.

01:54:48   - I mean, I think that's off the table now

01:54:50   that the US consumer product,

01:54:51   now there's official recall,

01:54:52   but yesterday Samsung announced

01:54:54   that they were gonna force a firmware update over the air

01:54:57   that only allowed them to charge to 60%.

01:54:59   - Wow.

01:55:00   - Which is wrong on a couple of levels, right?

01:55:05   Because even if you're like,

01:55:07   if you as a Galaxy Note 7 owner are perfectly fine

01:55:10   keeping the phone, but now your phone only has

01:55:12   60% battery life to start the day.

01:55:14   - Man.

01:55:16   - Anyway, we got Apple stuff to talk about,

01:55:17   but I thought this Note 7 thing is,

01:55:20   you just have to cut losses, right?

01:55:22   You have to--

01:55:23   - Well, yeah, that's the right thing to do.

01:55:25   - Do you remember the Tylenol recall?

01:55:26   Remember in the '80s when some nut job put--

01:55:32   what did he put in there?

01:55:33   Cyanide?

01:55:33   Cyanide or something like that, yeah.

01:55:35   Some nut job working in a Tylenol plant,

01:55:38   poison a batch of Tylenol with cyanide.

01:55:43   And it got nipped in the bud.

01:55:46   But the way Tylenol handled it is

01:55:48   like-- it's like textbooks and public relations

01:55:50   have been written about it, because Tylenol knew--

01:55:52   I think I'm getting the details on this right.

01:55:54   But the gist of it is that Tylenol

01:55:56   knew the exact batches that were affected.

01:55:58   You know, it's batches with these numbers.

01:56:01   And what they could have done is said,

01:56:03   all of these batches, if you're a distributor,

01:56:05   if you're a drug store, whatever,

01:56:07   these batches of Tylenol, whatever strength,

01:56:10   send them back.

01:56:11   These are the bad batches.

01:56:13   That's not what they did.

01:56:14   What Tylenol did is they said, get every single thing

01:56:17   in every store, warehouse, anywhere

01:56:20   that has the word Tylenol on it, whether it's Tylenol cough

01:56:23   syrup or whatever.

01:56:24   Send it all back.

01:56:25   We're just gonna destroy the entire stock of Tylenol

01:56:30   as we know it, and then we're gonna give you new stuff

01:56:32   so that everybody can feel good about the Tylenol

01:56:34   that they're taking.

01:56:36   Right?

01:56:37   - Save their company.

01:56:38   - Yeah, save the company.

01:56:39   Right?

01:56:40   It's a huge, they took a much bigger loss financially

01:56:43   in the moment to deal with it, but saved their reputation.

01:56:46   Because what it did is it actually did reinforce

01:56:48   the reputation that Tylenol's a brand you can trust.

01:56:51   Right?

01:56:52   There's nothing you can do to stop one lone nut job.

01:56:54   But then Tylenol said, you know,

01:56:55   we want you to have complete faith in a brand.

01:56:57   I think Samsung is actually,

01:56:59   this whole 60% trick is like the opposite.

01:57:02   - Well, and I said today, you know,

01:57:05   when I posted about the recall,

01:57:07   how are you gonna trust them again?

01:57:10   (laughing)

01:57:11   I mean, I don't trust, I really don't trust,

01:57:14   if the piece, it's the piece of hardware

01:57:16   that can catch fire.

01:57:16   I don't trust a software update, you know.

01:57:19   This piece of hardware, as it is, might catch fire,

01:57:22   but you can trust this software update so that it won't.

01:57:25   Oh, I don't know.

01:57:26   - I don't know about that.

01:57:28   Yeah.

01:57:29   - All right, back to the side.

01:57:30   Which one?

01:57:31   I don't know, I'm torn.

01:57:33   I'm torn, Jim.

01:57:34   I think, here's the thing that I really ought to do.

01:57:39   We've had an unbelievable hot stretch here in Philadelphia.

01:57:42   It was '92 yesterday.

01:57:43   So I'm still wearing shorts, but I think it's cooling off.

01:57:46   I gotta get some jeans on

01:57:48   and try this plus size one with jeans,

01:57:50   because wearing shorts is sort of a cheating move

01:57:52   because it's a lot less,

01:57:54   to me the least pleasant part of carrying

01:57:56   a plus-sized iPhone is getting it in and out

01:57:58   of jeans pockets.

01:57:59   - Yeah.

01:58:01   - I think though, if you had to--

01:58:06   - I keep it-- - If you had to tell me

01:58:07   I had a-- - My plus in my front pocket.

01:58:10   - Yeah, that's where I do too.

01:58:11   But it's still, it's way harder to get out

01:58:13   for me than the 6S.

01:58:14   Maybe I wear my jeans too tight.

01:58:15   - Maybe.

01:58:16   - If you told me I had to order my phone

01:58:19   that I'm gonna use for the next 12 months,

01:58:21   right now, on the air in this show,

01:58:23   I would get the 4.7 inch in jet black.

01:58:27   But I'm not gonna order for another week or so,

01:58:32   and so I withhold the right to either get them.

01:58:36   I do think, I think, I feel much more certain

01:58:39   that I'm gonna end up getting the smaller iPhone 7,

01:58:42   and less certain about whether I'm gonna get jet black

01:58:44   or the regular black, but I think I'm gonna get jet black.

01:58:49   And I think the reason why has nothing to do

01:58:51   with the way it looks and everything to do

01:58:53   with the grippiness and the confidence I have

01:58:55   that I'm not gonna slip and fall with it.

01:58:57   - You typically use the smaller phones anyway.

01:59:00   - Yeah, yeah.

01:59:01   - So and I typically go for the bigger ones.

01:59:03   So, you know, I could easily recommend either phone.

01:59:08   This time I feel like I, having the bigger one

01:59:12   is a better choice because I also get the camera too.

01:59:15   - Yeah.

01:59:16   So I do feel bad about the camera this time.

01:59:21   I've told you before, OIS, Optical Image Stabilization,

01:59:24   really is nice.

01:59:25   I've spent two years kind of wishing I had it

01:59:27   and kind of feeling a little bad that I didn't have it.

01:59:30   If I do go ahead and get the plus--

01:59:32   or not the plus, the 4.7 inch, I'm

01:59:34   going to feel even worse this year knowing

01:59:36   that every time I take a shot where

01:59:37   I feel like I'm too far away and I wish that I was zoomed

01:59:41   in a little more, every single time I snap a photo,

01:59:44   and I think, "God, I wish I had that other camera."

01:59:46   And, you know, anytime I see a picture that you've taken on Instagram or on Twitter,

01:59:52   I'm gonna post and say, "Why couldn't you zoom in on that?"

01:59:54   Oh, right, right, you didn't have the good phone, right. Sorry about that.

01:59:58   I did, I read your review. It seems like we're largely in agreement.

02:00:05   Yeah.

02:00:05   It's a phenomenal year-over-year improvement. I've been tweeting lately. I tweeted and I

02:00:11   posted something on Daring Fireball last night, and I know benchmarks aren't everything.

02:00:14   But that the Geekbench, if you just use Geekbench as your benchmark, the iPhone 7, and both

02:00:20   iPhone 7's benchmark almost exactly the same.

02:00:23   The difference is like the difference between one run and another on the same phone.

02:00:29   So I'll just say iPhone 7, but I mean both.

02:00:31   The iPhone 7 on Geekbench gets better scores than any MacBook Air ever made.

02:00:36   It gets better scores than the current one-port MacBook, and it gets about the same performance

02:00:41   as a 2013 MacBook Pro.

02:00:43   It's only three years behind the MacBook Pro in performance.

02:00:46   And I know there's some people who say

02:00:49   we can't really compare Geekbench numbers

02:00:50   for ARM versus Intel, there's differences,

02:00:53   blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

02:00:54   But in broad terms, it's unbelievable

02:00:57   how fast Apple's A series chips are catching up on Intel.

02:01:00   Because even if you say that what I'm calling

02:01:03   equivalent numbers between these phones

02:01:05   and a 2013 MacBook Pro, even if you say

02:01:07   that that's not quite apples to apples,

02:01:10   it's more apples to oranges because the differences

02:01:12   and the OS and differences in the architecture.

02:01:14   It is still the truth though that two or three years ago,

02:01:19   the new iPhones, which had every single year better CPUs,

02:01:22   were not three years ahead of the MacBook Pro.

02:01:26   They were like, or behind,

02:01:27   they were like five or six years behind.

02:01:29   And if you go back further,

02:01:30   it was more like 10 years behind.

02:01:32   - They're getting more efficient and faster in what they do.

02:01:36   - Yep.

02:01:36   - And you know, if you look at the graphs

02:01:38   that they showed on stage, that's not stopping.

02:01:42   It's exhilarating.

02:01:43   Yeah.

02:01:44   And somebody tweeted, well, isn't it

02:01:47   funny how you care about benchmarks only when they come

02:01:50   out in favor of the Apple product?

02:01:52   And that's-- but that's not true.

02:01:55   I'll admit, I mean, I've been using a Mac nonstop since 1991,

02:01:58   when I first got--

02:01:59   that's the first time I owned my own computer.

02:02:01   And between 1991 and 2007, when you

02:02:04   could buy an Intel-based Mac, most of those years,

02:02:07   the Mac had slower performance dollar for dollar

02:02:10   compared to the Intel PCs.

02:02:14   And if you were really into performance,

02:02:15   if you're doing something intensive

02:02:17   and you wanted to spend the most money you could,

02:02:19   for most of those years,

02:02:22   if you wanted the fastest computer you could buy,

02:02:23   it was gonna be the Intel machine.

02:02:26   And I would say, well, I used a Mac all those years,

02:02:31   not because I didn't care,

02:02:32   but because it wasn't outweighed

02:02:35   by the other advantages of using a Mac.

02:02:37   And it's same true today.

02:02:38   If it were, the tables returned,

02:02:40   and Samsung phones and whatever else uses Qualcomm's chips

02:02:44   got double the single core Geekbench numbers as the iPhone,

02:02:48   I would still use an iPhone.

02:02:50   And I would admit it, but it would be,

02:02:52   hey, weighing all the pros and cons, this is a con,

02:02:56   but it isn't outweighed by the other thing.

02:02:58   - Well, you know, for me, in all of these reviews that I do,

02:03:01   whether it's the Mac, which I love my Mac, I really do,

02:03:04   but whether it's a Mac, an iPad, an iPhone, a watch,

02:03:09   I always review it and how I use it

02:03:11   and how it fits into the lifestyle that I have set up.

02:03:16   Is this something that I'm trying to shoehorn in?

02:03:19   In which case, no, that's not gonna work for me.

02:03:21   But is it something that just kind of slides

02:03:24   into what I normally do?

02:03:26   And yes, this is a great product and here's how I use it.

02:03:30   You may use it differently, but here's how I use it.

02:03:33   I never mention, you know, oh, this is super fast

02:03:38   at doing these types of calculations

02:03:40   because that's not how I use it.

02:03:42   So I wouldn't know that.

02:03:44   - Here's what I think it really pays off

02:03:46   is it doesn't really pay off in like,

02:03:48   oh, I'm doing this super computationally expensive thing

02:03:51   and it's faster on my iPhone than it would be on an Android.

02:03:53   I think it's the results where real people benefit

02:03:56   from Apple's serious edge in chip design

02:04:00   is in energy efficiency.

02:04:03   So it's not so much what the iPhone can do

02:04:04   at peak performance, it's that the iPhone doesn't have

02:04:06   to break a sweat to get good enough performance

02:04:09   and therefore can you get better battery life.

02:04:14   - Yeah.

02:04:15   - So what I've heard, so there's this,

02:04:17   the new quad core design of the A10 Fusion

02:04:20   has two cores that run optimized for speed

02:04:23   and two cores that run optimized for power

02:04:25   and Apple builds the power efficient ones

02:04:27   as being one fifth the energy of the other ones.

02:04:30   So if you're doing something computationally expensive,

02:04:32   it's going to use the fast ones.

02:04:33   And then Phil Schuler's example is,

02:04:35   if you're just reading email, then it's

02:04:37   going to shift to those low power ones that are 1/5 the power.

02:04:41   I mean, it's a serious difference in energy consumption.

02:04:44   And what I heard--

02:04:46   the scuttlebutt I heard last week was that they are--

02:04:49   I'm going to wait for the non-tech guys to figure this

02:04:52   out, but the gist that--

02:04:53   because I don't know how I would test it.

02:04:55   But the gist I heard is that they are effectively

02:04:57   A8 performance.

02:04:58   So they're the performance of the two year old iPhone 6,

02:05:02   but at one fifth the power of the current high end cores.

02:05:07   And the A6, the thing is,

02:05:10   if you look at those Geekbench numbers,

02:05:11   the iPhone 6 is still at single core performance.

02:05:15   It's on par with the top of the line Android phones today.

02:05:19   So when you're running in low power mode on the iPhone,

02:05:21   you're still getting the single core performance

02:05:24   of the top of the line Samsung Galaxy Note.

02:05:27   It's pretty crazy.

02:05:29   Now, which is crazy.

02:05:30   Do you plug your phone in during the day?

02:05:34   I do normally, but with the plus, I don't.

02:05:38   I don't.

02:05:40   It's absolutely a different inhabit.

02:05:42   Like day to day with the iPhone 6S, when I'm at my desk,

02:05:46   I plug it in at least once, and then it easily

02:05:49   gets through the day.

02:05:50   With the-- so we're recording at 7 PM Eastern time

02:05:54   As we record, my iPhone 7 Plus,

02:05:59   which is my main phone right now,

02:06:00   the testing, the review unit, is at 84% battery.

02:06:03   - Yeah, yeah, I'm about the same.

02:06:07   And you know, most days,

02:06:09   actually, there isn't a day when I plug in my Plus.

02:06:18   I run all day till the end of the day when I go to bed,

02:06:21   I plug it in overnight, get up in the morning,

02:06:24   unplug it, and go for the full day again.

02:06:27   So that's how I use that phone.

02:06:30   You know, you said you get asked it.

02:06:32   I get asked it.

02:06:33   Which phone should I buy?

02:06:34   The first question is, do you mind the big size?

02:06:37   And if the answer to that question is no,

02:06:39   then you're done.

02:06:40   Go get it, right?

02:06:41   If you don't mind the big size, or you actually prefer it,

02:06:44   then there's no question you should get it.

02:06:46   Yeah.

02:06:46   What about your Jet Black?

02:06:50   Do you have any scratches on your Jet Black?

02:06:54   No, nothing real big.

02:06:56   I mean, hair-- those micro abrasions.

02:06:58   Yeah, yeah.

02:06:59   I know some people have called them a euphemism,

02:07:01   but I think it's actually right.

02:07:02   A scratch, to me, in my mind, is something

02:07:05   you can feel with your finger.

02:07:06   Right.

02:07:07   Or even just your fingernail.

02:07:10   The scratches that I see on the back of my jet black iPhone 7,

02:07:15   I cannot feel.

02:07:16   Exactly.

02:07:17   Even with my fingernail, I can't feel.

02:07:19   Now, maybe if I used it longer, it

02:07:21   would pick up scratches like that.

02:07:22   But I think microabrasion is a good word for it.

02:07:24   I see it when I put it at the right light

02:07:27   and reflect light on it.

02:07:28   - Yes, and that's something that I actually had to do

02:07:31   in order to see them, was to kind of tilt it

02:07:35   and say, oh, yeah, okay, maybe that was my keys

02:07:39   or something that did that.

02:07:40   - Right, right now, I have an order,

02:07:42   but my plan is I'm gonna get a regular iPhone 7

02:07:45   in jet black, I'm gonna use it for a year.

02:07:47   I'm not gonna put it in a case.

02:07:49   In fact, the whole reason I wanna get it

02:07:50   is because the grippiness means,

02:07:53   the only reason I would even think about

02:07:54   putting an iPhone in a case is just

02:07:56   the lack of grippiness of these aluminum finishes.

02:07:59   So I'm definitely not gonna put it in a case,

02:08:01   and I fully expect the year from now

02:08:03   when I back it up for the last time

02:08:06   to use the backup to put into an iPhone 7S

02:08:09   or an iPhone 8 or whatever they're gonna call

02:08:10   next year's iPhones, that it's gonna be

02:08:12   all scratched up on the back, and I don't care.

02:08:14   - I don't care either.

02:08:16   And that's, see, as much as you say

02:08:19   The first question is, do you mind the bigger size?

02:08:22   I think the second question is,

02:08:23   do you mind being all scratched up after a year?

02:08:26   - Yeah, and do you mind being able to see fingerprints

02:08:27   during the day and stuff like that?

02:08:29   And if they do have, I know it's a question people have asked

02:08:31   they do have an oleophobic coating on the whole thing.

02:08:35   So it does like rub, you know, when you rub it on your jeans

02:08:38   or whatever to clear the fingerprints, it's easy.

02:08:40   Like it, the screen clears up a fingerprints

02:08:43   just as easily as the, or the back clears up a fingerprints

02:08:45   just as easily as the front.

02:08:47   But it starts picking up again

02:08:48   as soon as you flip it around.

02:08:50   I don't care either.

02:08:51   - It just doesn't bother me.

02:08:53   - I care less about, I do like to have a phone

02:08:55   that looks cool, and so both blacks look cool.

02:08:57   - Yes.

02:08:58   - But I care more about how it feels.

02:09:00   All right, we're running short on time.

02:09:03   What would you rather talk about more?

02:09:04   Would you rather talk about AirPods more,

02:09:06   or Apple Watch Series 2?

02:09:08   - Oh, well, we did talk about AirPods a little bit earlier.

02:09:13   I will say, just a quick note on AirPods,

02:09:18   people have been going insane, losing their minds that these things are gonna fall out

02:09:24   of your ears when you're running, they're gonna, the sound isn't good. They've never

02:09:30   had them. They've never touched them.

02:09:32   Pete: Right.

02:09:33   Pete; And it's all these people that have never had the AirPods that are saying how

02:09:38   bad they are. Well, I have exercised in them. I've lifted weights, I've walked, I tried,

02:09:47   I don't run often, but I ran a bit.

02:09:51   I tilted my head sideways.

02:09:53   I did everything but do cartwheels

02:09:56   with these things in my ear.

02:09:57   They have never fallen out.

02:09:59   - No, I've been running with them.

02:10:00   I mean, again, it might vary ear by ear,

02:10:03   but, and for me, they fit so well that I was confident.

02:10:07   I knew as soon as I put them in, I was like,

02:10:08   oh, I could go running.

02:10:09   It's no doubt. - Yeah, yep.

02:10:10   - I mean, maybe out of everybody who listens to the show,

02:10:13   surely somebody's got ears that are of different shape,

02:10:17   but you're gonna know when you put it in

02:10:18   whether it's a good fit or not.

02:10:21   - I don't, I just, I don't know why people do that.

02:10:26   But yeah, here's, so here's the thing.

02:10:29   I think, and this is the big tell over time to me,

02:10:34   is how much of this is about Apple wanting,

02:10:38   seeing these AirPods as the future of audio, personal audio,

02:10:41   and how much of it is a money grab?

02:10:45   How much of it is that they wanna make money

02:10:46   selling $159 headphones.

02:10:49   I believe, and it's not entirely uninformed,

02:10:54   but who knows, maybe the person I spoke to is full of shit,

02:10:57   but I believe that they priced them as low as they could,

02:11:01   and that if they could have sold them for 129,

02:11:02   they would have sold them for 129,

02:11:04   and if they could have sold them for 99,

02:11:05   they would have sold them for 99.

02:11:07   And I think the fact that 159 is such an oddball price,

02:11:11   it's that it's the direct result of the,

02:11:14   I'm not saying they're selling them at cost.

02:11:17   I'm saying, though, that they're selling them at cost times

02:11:20   whatever minimal profit Tim Cook and Jeff Williams want out

02:11:24   of these things, but that the margins on these things,

02:11:27   I think, are significantly lower than Apple's typical margins,

02:11:30   and that they're not selling them for a profit.

02:11:32   They wanted to sell them.

02:11:33   This is the lowest price we can get away with selling them at

02:11:36   and make a profit.

02:11:36   And 159 is a very unusual price.

02:11:39   Even 149 would have been more typical for Apple.

02:11:43   And here's the way--

02:11:44   I mean, we won't know until next year.

02:11:46   But here's the tell.

02:11:47   If next year there's still 159, well,

02:11:52   maybe the price of making them didn't come down.

02:11:54   Two years from now, though, if they don't get the price

02:11:56   down to 129 or 99 or something like that,

02:11:59   then okay, I would then concede that they are trying

02:12:02   to make money selling AirPods.

02:12:05   I expect that next year and/or the year after that,

02:12:09   the price is gonna go down on AirPods

02:12:11   because they really want these to be in as many years

02:12:14   possible and it's more important than making a profit.

02:12:17   Pete: I don't think at all that this is a money grab and the reason I don't think that is because

02:12:27   if it was a money grab, they didn't have to do all of these extra things that they did. They could

02:12:34   just make a set of Bluetooth headphones or they could have said, "Yes, our partner, Beats, has

02:12:38   these Bluetooth headphones. I think that they are trying to do two things. Well, one and two.

02:12:48   The first is that I think they are moving to wireless. And I think in order to move to wireless,

02:12:53   they needed to build this W1 chip. And this is the first that we're seeing of this chip.

02:13:02   They're solving problems along the way. They're solving wireless issues along the way.

02:13:09   They're giving us features in wireless that we've never had before.

02:13:13   And to me, that is not a money grab. Those are features that users will be able to use. And I

02:13:20   agree wholeheartedly with you that in two years, they want these in as many people's ears as they

02:13:26   can possibly get. Yeah, I think I, this is my hope. And I really think that this,

02:13:32   this is what I would bet on is that the price will go down steadily over time year over year

02:13:36   and I don't know how many years it'll take but three four years it'll be in the box with the

02:13:41   iPhone. Yeah, yeah. But it can't be yet. It's too expensive because there really are they are two

02:13:47   computers. When you put them in they are two computers that you're putting in your ear. This

02:13:51   is my favorite detail about how they work. I think that they even say this on the marketing site but

02:13:55   they they they're they're little I don't know if they run iOS. I don't think they do. I don't know

02:13:59   know what, but they run some kind of, you know, operating system, their computers.

02:14:03   When they're in your ear, they use a motion coprocessor to see when your jaw

02:14:07   moves, and when your jaw moves, that's when the microphone turns on to start

02:14:11   listening, so that you, you know, it's not, it's like if you're on a phone call and

02:14:19   you're just listening, I'm listening to you talk, the microphone isn't going for

02:14:24   me. It's not, it's not wasting battery life on the microphone. It waits until

02:14:29   my jaw moves for me to start talking before the microphone kicks in. And the motion co-processor

02:14:35   is so sensitive that it can pick up when my jaw moves. Yeah. It's crazy. Crazy. Now, I asked them,

02:14:42   I don't know if you talked to them about this, but because I do this, I said, "What happens if

02:14:48   I'm walking down the street singing Aussie, you know, with my headphones in?" And they said,

02:14:54   they looked at me kind of weird and I said, "Yeah, I know, but I do it. I, you know, I do it." And

02:14:59   and they said, "Well, the microphone will come on."

02:15:01   Because it won't?

02:15:02   - It won't? - It will.

02:15:03   - Well, but why would it come on

02:15:04   if it wasn't even thinking about listening to you?

02:15:06   Because it's not in a context where it needs any,

02:15:08   it doesn't do-- - You dingus.

02:15:10   - No, I shouldn't have said that, but.

02:15:11   I think that they're wrong.

02:15:12   I don't, I don't, sorry if anybody's Siri kicked in.

02:15:16   (laughing)

02:15:18   Oh my God.

02:15:21   No, I don't think it will,

02:15:24   because that's why you have to double tap to get Siri.

02:15:28   You have to double tap for Siri so it's not always listening.

02:15:30   - Only on the phone, on the watch that doesn't work.

02:15:33   - But on the EarPods it does.

02:15:34   I don't think the microphone is listening to you

02:15:38   just because you're singing Ozzy

02:15:40   while you walk down the street.

02:15:41   I think you could do, you should do a battery test.

02:15:43   Spend an hour without singing and spend an hour singing.

02:15:46   I think you'll see the same battery life.

02:15:48   The battery life difference between these

02:15:49   and other Bluetooth EarPods, you know,

02:15:52   obviously those big over the ear ones from Beats,

02:15:55   you know they get 40 hours of battery life.

02:15:57   - I know. - It's crazy.

02:15:59   But these get so much better battery life.

02:16:00   Samsung released a pair of similar EarPods,

02:16:03   the ones that come with a case that charges,

02:16:05   they get 90 minutes of battery life.

02:16:06   - Oh my God. - This is a product

02:16:07   that Samsung released two months ago.

02:16:09   - Huh. (laughing)

02:16:11   - These get, the five hours they advertise

02:16:14   are totally legit.

02:16:16   I mean, I think they undersold it

02:16:17   because I took a cross-country flight

02:16:19   and listened to music most of the time and got home

02:16:20   and I had 44% battery life left.

02:16:23   - Oh, wow.

02:16:24   - Yeah, I said that I think

02:16:26   that they were being conservative, but.

02:16:28   - Yeah, now that said, like when I went to the bathroom,

02:16:31   or I forget what I did, or a couple times during,

02:16:33   or takeoff and landing, for example,

02:16:35   you have to take 'em off, you know,

02:16:36   turn the Bluetooth off, and I put 'em in the case,

02:16:37   so they did get to sip from the charger,

02:16:39   but that's typical use.

02:16:41   I didn't do anything a normal person wouldn't do

02:16:44   who wanted to listen to music and podcasts

02:16:46   during the flight the whole time,

02:16:47   so I listened to it for most of a transcontinental flight

02:16:50   and I had 44% battery life.

02:16:51   - Here's something interesting.

02:16:53   The AirPods never went to zero charge,

02:16:58   unless I wanted it to.

02:17:01   - So I never got 'em down, I never got 'em below 40%.

02:17:06   And that's one of those problems of five day review,

02:17:08   or I haven't really written my AirPod review,

02:17:09   I guess I should let 'em run down,

02:17:11   but I couldn't get the battery to run down.

02:17:12   - I ran it down to zero, but I use them,

02:17:15   I use earphones all the time because--

02:17:17   - Hey, what kind of indication do you get when it gets low?

02:17:19   Does the phone tell you?

02:17:22   they beep or something?

02:17:23   No, there was a beep in my ear. I noticed it actually last night because they went down

02:17:27   to 11% and I heard something in my ear and I thought, "What? That's weird. What was

02:17:32   that?" And when I checked the battery, it was down, it said 11% at that point. So, the

02:17:39   only time that they died is when I wanted them to. Now, it took, I'll say, less than

02:17:46   15 minutes to get to 100% charging.

02:17:48   [Laughter]

02:17:49   That's crazy.

02:17:50   It's crazy.

02:17:51   Yeah.

02:17:52   So, it was, hey, it was incredible.

02:17:54   I put them in the charger and ten minutes later, I looked and they were almost, it was

02:17:59   like at 75% and I thought, wow, this is crazy.

02:18:02   I looked and, you know, if I had of kept checking at that point, I would have, I would have

02:18:07   probably seen it at, you know, 11, 12 minutes where it was completely charged, but I had

02:18:14   to go in and get a beer.

02:18:15   So, by the time I get back, they were completely charged and I'll just, I'll be conservative.

02:18:20   in say 15 minutes, but I think it was less.

02:18:24   From zero, absolute zero dead.

02:18:26   - That's crazy.

02:18:29   I still haven't written a full AirPods review

02:18:32   'cause I even wrote my, I just ran out of time.

02:18:34   I mean, again, it's just the nature

02:18:35   of being a one-person shop.

02:18:38   I don't have colleagues to review the watch

02:18:40   while I review the phone or anything like that.

02:18:42   And I really honestly believe

02:18:44   that the AirPods deserve their full review.

02:18:45   They don't deserve to be like a little section

02:18:48   an iPhone review because they're that interesting. I had a friend yesterday ask whether I think

02:18:55   Apple would ever do a wearable computer smaller than a watch, and I said I think they already

02:19:00   did.

02:19:01   Yeah.

02:19:02   Like, I think that the AirPods legitimately qualify as a wearable computer.

02:19:05   Well, here are a couple of other things that, you know, just cool things. You have the AirPods

02:19:13   your ears, you take one out and your music will pause automatically. You put them back in and the

02:19:20   music will begin playing again automatically. And you can do that with either one because as you

02:19:26   mentioned earlier, they're both equally as smart. You can double tap on it and it'll activate Siri

02:19:34   on your phone. Double tap if you're listening from your watch and it'll play/pause the music.

02:19:41   So here's something I did the other day, quite by accident, I didn't mean to do this. I had music

02:19:45   playing on a playlist from my watch. I walked over and pressed Siri on my phone. The headphones

02:19:52   connected to the phone and was waiting for me to give my question. So I asked the question, it

02:19:59   gave me the answer, and then I left everything, I didn't touch a thing, and in five seconds it

02:20:06   it reverted back to the watch and started playing my song again.

02:20:09   That's pretty cool. Now it's switching among devices,

02:20:15   you know, on the fly. Yep. So I thought that was great.

02:20:20   Um, I, you know, I think,

02:20:25   and I don't know how much of this is software.

02:20:27   I don't know how much of it is microphones.

02:20:29   I don't know how much of it is the cloud back end, but,

02:20:35   Siri voice dictation, just does Siri understand the words that you're saying to Siri is

02:20:40   Better than ever and so today I was I picked up my son from school and a beautiful day

02:20:45   So we walked and I was a little bit late and I was listening to podcasts

02:20:50   And so I double tap my air pod never took the phone out of my pocket double tap

02:20:54   I got the little doot-doot and

02:20:57   I said text Jonas. I'm running a few minutes behind

02:21:02   probably five minutes late period and

02:21:05   I waited and is just the right amount of time to make sure I was done talking and then Siri said

02:21:12   Okay, John. Here's the text. Here's the message. I'm going to send and and she read the whole thing

02:21:18   She got every single word of it exactly right

02:21:20   word for word and

02:21:23   And then she was like, what should I do?

02:21:25   and I think that's what she did and it was like I got the doot-doot and I said send it and then she said

02:21:30   okay sent and then like you said a beat or two later the podcast just started playing again.

02:21:36   That is cool. And again, I know people have complaints about Siri dictation or whatever,

02:21:42   but this is a major city thoroughfare here in Philadelphia. It wasn't quiet. I mean this is you know, it was

02:21:49   you know, pretty big street with lots of traffic and I couldn't have couldn't have been a better experience and it you know here

02:21:55   it's summer. It feels like summer at least and I've got shorts on it wouldn't be that hard

02:21:59   But that would be so much better in a winter when I don't want to take my phone out if I've got gloves on or something

02:22:05   Like that or if I just want to take the glove off enough just so that the I that's curious

02:22:09   I have to test that whether double tap on that with on the headphones works with gloves

02:22:13   I don't know. But anyway, great product only have a few minutes left before we got a wrap but

02:22:18   Anything else on AirPods you want to just talk about Apple watch series - yeah, I'm poor sirs - I

02:22:25   you know, I don't want to

02:22:28   Toot my own horn, but I really feel like my Apple watch to series to review

02:22:33   I feel like I really expressed my feelings on it as well as I can express on anything else

02:22:37   That it's Dave Apple

02:22:40   This is my take in the nut Apple really got it had a had a loose handle on what the watch should be two years ago

02:22:47   originally

02:22:49   In the intervening two years figured out what it is good for and what people want to buy it for

02:22:56   Focused on those things they made the parts that are good better fitness tracking

02:23:00   And they made the parts that were problems. They really fixed in order the top problems on the phone are not the phone that watch

02:23:08   and it's

02:23:11   It's just a very very impressive

02:23:13   Second generation device in terms of how much of the low-hanging, you know

02:23:17   the problems they fixed and how much better they made the features that people really are using I

02:23:23   Couldn't agree. I mean that sums it up couldn't agree more and it

02:23:26   for me it actually

02:23:29   it allowed me some freedom and

02:23:32   When if you've ever left home without your phone, you know

02:23:37   When you realize that you think oh my god, you know, no phone

02:23:42   but when you leave home without your phone on purpose you have a kind of a

02:23:47   Freedom, you know, but I never leave home without my phone now I do

02:23:52   do with my watch with the GPS. I have my AirPods, I put those in, I have a playlist on my watch,

02:24:00   I press play, it shuffles through all the songs that I've loved and I just, I walk and it's so

02:24:08   good you know to have that 30 minutes or 35 minutes away from from everything and the GPS

02:24:16   still captures all the data that I want about my walk.

02:24:20   I can, as soon as I walk in the door,

02:24:23   it syncs to my phone.

02:24:25   And I can look on my phone, which I did the other day.

02:24:29   I walked in, grabbed my phone, sat down,

02:24:33   and pulled it up and all the information

02:24:35   was already there on my phone.

02:24:37   And I just looked.

02:24:39   It's wonderful.

02:24:41   - It's great.

02:24:44   I do think too that people are underestimating.

02:24:47   Because in addition to those things we said about the watch,

02:24:52   I mean, it is clearly growing independent, right?

02:24:56   Yes.

02:24:57   You know, this is second generation,

02:24:59   but the GPS is a very nice bit of independence.

02:25:03   It is obviously going to eventually

02:25:06   be an independent device.

02:25:07   It's going to have its own networking,

02:25:08   and it's going to do a lot of stuff without a phone tethered

02:25:11   to it.

02:25:13   That world where the phone or the watch

02:25:16   is like an independent personal computer

02:25:18   needs wireless headphones.

02:25:19   There's never gonna be, there never is

02:25:21   or never would have been a headphone jack

02:25:23   on an Apple Watch.

02:25:25   - Yep.

02:25:26   - Right?

02:25:27   - No, I, yeah, no way.

02:25:30   - I think part of the backwards looking aspect

02:25:34   of the people who are so angry about this headphone jack

02:25:38   being removed is that

02:25:43   You can argue about whether the phone is big enough

02:25:46   to have a headphone jack,

02:25:48   but every device smaller than that is too small.

02:25:51   - Yeah, it's just stuff like that is just not gonna happen.

02:25:56   But that's why I don't think that this whole wireless thing

02:26:01   is a money grab.

02:26:02   I think that it's more than that.

02:26:04   - I do too.

02:26:07   Jim, I thank you for your time.

02:26:10   I think that's just about it.

02:26:11   I think that's a good quick take.

02:26:13   - Gotta leave stuff for subsequent episodes.

02:26:15   - Subsequent episodes.

02:26:17   Everybody can find all the Dalrymple they want

02:26:21   at your website, The Loop.

02:26:23   It's loopinsight.com is the address.

02:26:26   Podcast, what you got for podcasts?

02:26:30   - The Dalrymple Report, it's linked right off

02:26:32   The Loop's homepage.

02:26:34   - Good podcast.

02:26:35   And on Twitter, you are J Dalrymple.

02:26:41   - Yeah.

02:26:42   - Well, I thank you for the time.

02:26:43   It was good seeing you last week, really good seeing you.

02:26:45   - Thank you, yeah, it's always great to be able to sit down,

02:26:49   have a beer or a cup of coffee

02:26:52   and catch up on everything that's happened.

02:26:56   - All right, and my thanks to our sponsors today.

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