The Talk Show

151: ‘Option P’ With Serenity Caldwell


00:00:00   You sound wonderful. Do you have a new microphone?

00:00:02   No, I know I actually you know, I probably have the blackjack since the last time we talked I got a two by two

00:00:08   Yeah, that's exactly what I have. It's nice. I like it

00:00:11   I've only had occasional occurrences where it turns me into a Dalek, but otherwise, it's fine

00:00:16   my thing is that I took I got the thing set up where I

00:00:21   Apparently sound okay, and then I took a picture of all these crazy dials

00:00:26   If I ever lose that picture, I'm screwed

00:00:29   You're just like I need to commit this to memory make Jonas memorize it

00:00:33   I have no idea what any of this stuff means it's so it's very confusing to me

00:00:37   Especially that all the extra buttons the in and out it's like oh, yeah

00:00:40   There's there too many especially if you only have one mic set up and you're not using the input monitor

00:00:45   And it's just going into your computer. There's there's a lot more than you actually need there. Yeah, I think that as I get older

00:00:51   I'm really rocketing towards

00:00:53   demanding

00:00:54   extreme simplicity and everything I use, but it's like the podcast,

00:00:58   I do enough podcasts where it really is worth it for me to sound as good as I

00:01:01   possibly can. And so I gave up on my beloved,

00:01:05   just plug it into a USB microphone, you know, which I loved in theory,

00:01:10   but everybody agrees that ever since I switched to this, I sound better. So.

00:01:13   Yeah. The, the mixers, mixers make everything sound great.

00:01:16   Although I did find a lightning USB mic that's not terrible that I've been using

00:01:20   recently on the road. So that's my, that's my good backup for now.

00:01:23   So what do you wait? All right, let's, let's, let's consider this part of the show. So like,

00:01:28   lightning. What would what does that mean? You mean like podcasting from like an iPad?

00:01:33   Yeah, I podcasting from an iPad is still a pain in the ass. But being able to record your audio on

00:01:41   the go is really helpful. And previous to that, I had like a little tiny lav mic that you'd plug

00:01:47   into the headphones of your iPhone jack. And it was just, you know, it was better than talking on

00:01:51   your iPhone, but not by much. And I accidentally

00:01:56   drowned my MacBook Air. So my iPad is the only

00:01:59   portable computer I have right now, which is kind

00:02:01   of terrifying.

00:02:01   Wait, wait, which one did you drown?

00:02:03   I drowned my MacBook Air.

00:02:04   No!

00:02:05   My poor 11 inch MacBook Air was sitting next to

00:02:07   my MacBook Pro or my iPad Pro. And yeah, bad

00:02:13   things happened. I guess I do have a 15 inch

00:02:15   MacBook Pro that's like six years old at this

00:02:17   point, but I haven't booted it on in like two

00:02:19   years.

00:02:21   Oh man, so what are you gonna do? This is like a bad time to replace a MacBook.

00:02:24   Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, well, I've got the iPad Pro and I was making all this hay about,

00:02:28   yeah, I do most of my work on it, which is true. I do do a lot of like my portable work on the iPad

00:02:33   now. But I was still like, Oh God, now I have no safety net.

00:02:37   Yeah, more on that later.

00:02:39   Yes. We'll talk about that later. But yeah, but I but um, but podcasting mics. So I tried the

00:02:46   Shure for a while and that thing is a beautiful mic that is absolutely horrible because it requires

00:02:52   a very specific app and it just it won't work if you just plug it into the iPad you have to open

00:02:58   like the Shure app or GarageBand and anything else just is like nope I don't recognize you as

00:03:03   a microphone sorry you don't get to work which is infuriating. So I got, oh what's it called,

00:03:11   I have to find it. I picked up the Apogee, not the Apogee one, one of the little ones

00:03:20   that's like 200 bucks from the Apple store on a whim and I love it. It's so good and

00:03:26   it works for everything.

00:03:30   So this is like one of those things where I don't know, maybe I'm just an idiot but

00:03:34   it's whenever I read about people trying to podcast from an iPad, I get very confused.

00:03:44   In some ways, it's I guess simpler than podcasting from a Mac and that all the multitasking involved

00:03:50   in the different apps and everything I have installed to do this, in some ways is more

00:03:54   complicated but because the Mac can do so many things at the same time and you don't

00:03:57   have to worry about which app is front most or whatever and you can run things, dirty

00:04:02   little hacks like call recorder for Skype. To me, it just makes sense. It's like, just

00:04:08   totally makes sense. And when I, and supposedly, I still didn't go back and watch the video,

00:04:12   but I heard that in the event last month when when Phil Schuler said, "Now you can podcast,

00:04:16   you know, this is great for podcasters," that they cut to me in the audience.

00:04:20   Oh, yeah, they cut to the whole section of just everybody being like, "What?"

00:04:24   Right.

00:04:25   Yeah, I don't know if that app, if that app, if the accessory really makes it easier for

00:04:30   podcasters if you have it makes it easier to run your powered microphones

00:04:34   sure but it doesn't actually fix the core podcasting problem on iOS which is

00:04:39   what you were just talking about the fact that like there is really no

00:04:42   support for core audio and for background app like multi multi

00:04:46   threading audio throughout apps so like if you're going to record if you're

00:04:51   gonna do a podcast on an iPad if you're doing it locally it's not a huge deal

00:04:55   especially with that powered adapter because then you can basically just

00:04:58   just plug your mixer into the powered adapter

00:05:00   if it's a USB mixer and then you've got mics.

00:05:04   But if you're trying to do a remote show,

00:05:07   like if we were trying to do this show right now

00:05:09   on the iPad, what I would have to do

00:05:11   is I'd have to have my iPad open either with Skype

00:05:16   or with voice memos or whatever recording thing

00:05:19   and then my iPhone, whatever device I wasn't using

00:05:24   to run Skype, I'd have to plug my Apogee mic

00:05:28   into and run voice memos from there.

00:05:31   So it's basically like you have to use two devices.

00:05:34   And of course your natural Skype call

00:05:37   is gonna sound like shit

00:05:39   because you're not actually recording through the good,

00:05:41   or you're not actually talking through the good mic.

00:05:43   - Right, like on a Mac you need two apps.

00:05:45   So like for example, we use,

00:05:47   I use almost all the 90% of the time,

00:05:49   I use Skype for the connection.

00:05:50   And then I use an app called Call Recorder,

00:05:54   which sort of runs as a extension within Skype.

00:05:57   but you could use just about anything.

00:05:58   There's any app that can record audio.

00:06:01   I mean, lots of people just use QuickTime.

00:06:03   You can just open the QuickTime player app

00:06:04   and say new audio recording.

00:06:06   Pick the same microphone as the input.

00:06:09   And so like what you hear, you know, like,

00:06:12   it's a little inside baseball,

00:06:13   but for anybody out there, like to me,

00:06:15   you sound as good to me right now as I'm talking to you

00:06:18   as you would if I were just listening to the show

00:06:21   after it's being done editing,

00:06:23   because I hear you through the same microphone

00:06:25   that you're recording.

00:06:27   Whereas, so it's two apps, one to record,

00:06:29   one to do the connection.

00:06:30   And, but if you do it on iOS, you have to use two devices.

00:06:34   - Yeah, which is just ridiculous.

00:06:37   - And two microphones.

00:06:38   - I mean, it's doable.

00:06:39   Like I did it last fall when I was on vacation,

00:06:43   when the iPad Pro first came out.

00:06:45   I did a podcast with Mike Hurley and Jason Snell.

00:06:48   I was a guest on Upgrade.

00:06:49   And so I did it that way because I literally,

00:06:52   I only had my iPad, my iPhone, and an iPad mic.

00:06:55   So there was no other way.

00:06:56   Like I couldn't just be like,

00:06:58   I'm gonna try and use a computer

00:06:59   'cause there was no computer available to me.

00:07:01   So it's doable if you're in that pinch,

00:07:03   but it's definitely not what I would call

00:07:05   a first rate solution.

00:07:08   It's the podcasting is not what you go to iOS for.

00:07:11   - Right.

00:07:12   So,

00:07:15   what is your Apple TV remote lost or not lost?

00:07:22   - It is not lost at the moment, thank goodness.

00:07:25   It is it is sitting on my desk right now next in its studio neat stand.

00:07:31   You I think was it just today that this came out? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the headline

00:07:36   is this is serenity's article at I'm more it says, wishlist someday I would like to

00:07:41   stop losing my Siri remote.

00:07:44   Yes, I this came about because I saw Susie Oakes tweet, a macworld story. I can't remember

00:07:53   who wrote it, I think it was Jared Devine, who wrote a story basically being like, "I've

00:07:58   stuck a tile to the back of my Siri remote and now I can find it!" And simultaneously

00:08:03   I'm like, "That's really smart!" And oh god, is this what we've really come to? Like, is

00:08:10   the only way that I'm going to be able to find my Siri remote to be able to stick a

00:08:14   device that's pretty much half the size of the Siri remote to the back of the Siri remote

00:08:20   and do it every year because the tiles only last 12 months.

00:08:25   - Yeah, the tiles being the,

00:08:26   it was a Kickstarter project, right?

00:08:29   - Yeah, yeah, there are little Bluetooth trackers

00:08:32   that connect to your iPhone,

00:08:34   and then because they're Bluetooth,

00:08:36   and then they have a tiny speaker embedded,

00:08:37   so it works similarly to the Find iPhone button

00:08:41   on the Apple Watch, where you just, you press the button,

00:08:44   and then your wallet or your keys or whatever ring.

00:08:47   And I have tiles for my wallet and my keys,

00:08:49   and they're very useful. But I don't I wouldn't put it on the remote is so thin. It just looks it

00:08:55   looks like I'm just stuck a battery pack on my remote for what for the purposes of the teensiest

00:09:00   little speaker in the world. I love it's one of my favorite Apple Watch features is the ability to

00:09:05   ping your iPhone. I don't lose my iPhone very often or I don't misplace it or forget where it

00:09:09   goes. But then when you do, it'll drive you crazy and be Oh my gosh. And being able to ping it from

00:09:15   the watch is so much better. It's so much more convenient than logging in to find my

00:09:19   iPhone to play the sound. It's so much more convenient. It's a great feature and it just

00:09:23   sort of makes sense in the look. It's all in the same house or same, you know, if you

00:09:29   assume it's all in the same house and everything's already hooked up to the same network or whatever,

00:09:34   one of these things should be able to find the other. And they can both make noise and

00:09:38   they both are, you know, loosely connected at all times. So it makes sense that you'd

00:09:42   be able to do that. So I feel like there's got to be a solution like this for the remote,

00:09:46   you should be able to like say like, hey, Apple TV, where's the goddamn remote, and

00:09:50   then it will beep the remote.

00:09:52   JILL RILEY Seriously, I mean, I so I kind of I said this

00:09:55   in my article, but I kind of understand why it wasn't a feature at launch. Because they

00:09:59   I mean, they were rushing to get this thing out the door and the the remote app for the

00:10:03   iPhone wasn't even ready. So there was you know, if the remote app for the iPhone wasn't

00:10:06   going to be ready, there was physically no button for them to be able to press to be

00:10:10   like find iPhone. And because the because the Siri speaker or the Siri microphone is

00:10:17   built into the remote, not into the Apple TV, you can't just like shout to the heavens

00:10:21   like you might to an Amazon Echo being like, where's my remote? Although that would be

00:10:26   a cool feature Apple just saying but what I'm kind of hoping for is like the Siri remote

00:10:31   just connects to the Apple TV via Bluetooth and theoretically, Apple could design a next

00:10:37   generation remote without having to make us buy an entirely new Apple TV. Like they could

00:10:43   just sign it and say this works with this Apple TV and then just insert a tiny little

00:10:46   speaker because it already works via Bluetooth. So it already has the connection inherent,

00:10:51   you know, to to send a ping to the remote to say, yo, make a sound wherever you are.

00:10:57   I just don't I don't think there's a speaker in the remote right now. There's only a microphone.

00:11:00   I don't think so either. It's never used for anything. So if there is it's so hidden that

00:11:05   I fix it, couldn't even find it.

00:11:07   - But, and again, I always file this under,

00:11:10   look, I know it's a lot easier for us on the outside

00:11:12   to tell Apple to put another $2 component

00:11:16   into this device and that device.

00:11:17   And it's very easy to say, you know,

00:11:19   to quickly dissipate Apple's profit margins.

00:11:23   But I really do think that for the price

00:11:25   that Apple charges for the Apple TV and for the,

00:11:29   what did the extra, aren't the extra remotes like 60 bucks?

00:11:32   - Yeah, the extra remote I think is $79.

00:11:34   - Yeah, so look, if it's a $79 remote,

00:11:37   you can put, I'm sorry, Tim Cook,

00:11:39   you can put a speaker in there

00:11:42   that doesn't have to be high fidelity,

00:11:43   just has to be, - No!

00:11:44   - It just needs to be loud enough

00:11:46   to be heard through sofa cushions.

00:11:48   - Yeah, all I need is a nice high-pitched submarine,

00:11:52   like beep, it doesn't even have to be pleasant to the ears.

00:11:55   I just need to be able to find it.

00:11:57   - Right.

00:11:58   - And yeah, and they could sell, that's the thing,

00:12:00   is like Apple Tomorrow could come out with Apple TV remote

00:12:04   now with speaker.

00:12:05   And theoretically, you could just buy it

00:12:06   and pair it to your Apple TV.

00:12:08   Like that's what I want them to do.

00:12:10   I'm like, yes, don't worry about releasing it

00:12:12   with your next generation Apple TV.

00:12:14   Take time to like upgrade that hardware, but.

00:12:16   - Just to put a speaker in somehow

00:12:19   an asymmetric button arrangement so that you can--

00:12:22   - Yes, so that you can figure out which way is up.

00:12:24   You know, do you have the remote strap?

00:12:27   'Cause that's what I eventually ended up doing.

00:12:29   - I don't like the strap

00:12:30   'cause it's always flapping around.

00:12:31   What I did is I took a piece of gaffer's tape

00:12:33   and wrapped it around the bottom.

00:12:36   - Oh, so you have the texture.

00:12:37   - Yeah, and it goes on the side, the texture,

00:12:40   'cause it's a piece of tape that wraps around,

00:12:42   all the way around, and so I can feel it from the sides,

00:12:45   and it's a lot easier.

00:12:46   - Yeah, and it doesn't completely degrade the look of it,

00:12:49   because black gaffer's tape blends in, yeah.

00:12:52   I like that, that's smart.

00:12:53   - Yeah, but I still feel like it's ridiculous

00:12:57   that I've got to jury-rig a design solution

00:13:00   to an $80 remote control.

00:13:02   - Well, yeah, exactly.

00:13:04   The worst part is I'm picking,

00:13:05   I just picked up my remote

00:13:06   and my remote's upside down right now.

00:13:07   This is the remote that doesn't have the strap on it.

00:13:10   And with the, like all of the icons are so minimalist

00:13:15   that even holding it upside down,

00:13:17   the only way that you know

00:13:18   that you're holding it upside down is that menu.

00:13:20   The only word on the thing is upside down.

00:13:23   And even when you're first looking at it,

00:13:26   the U in menu kind of looks like an N

00:13:28   and then the N is still right side up.

00:13:30   So you read like two letters in before you're like,

00:13:33   before your brain registers, oh, this is an word,

00:13:36   maybe I should flip this around.

00:13:38   I don't know, it's painful.

00:13:40   - I find that the longer we go with this remote,

00:13:42   the more worrisome I consider it as an exhibit

00:13:46   in the case against the slight decline

00:13:48   of overall design quality coming out of Apple these days.

00:13:52   You know, that's a long title for the lawsuit,

00:13:55   but I do feel that it's a pretty good example

00:13:57   because it's great technology and I love the basic idea

00:14:00   And I really love, as time goes on,

00:14:04   I really, really like the interface

00:14:07   that as you use the trackpad and that the way that the,

00:14:10   forget the name of it, it's not UI kit,

00:14:12   but whatever they call it.

00:14:13   - Yeah, on the Apple TV.

00:14:15   - Right, but the way that things pop up

00:14:17   as there's to indicate what's selected.

00:14:20   I find it so intuitive, really like it.

00:14:22   I like it so much as time goes on.

00:14:24   The talk to it thing, I know other devices

00:14:27   have this now too, but like my-- Jonas is going through a friend's bender. He's

00:14:33   obsessed-- he's 12 years old-- obsessed with the show Friends on Netflix, and

00:14:37   it's so awesome because he's got it timed now. He knows exactly when the

00:14:41   theme song kicks in exactly how many seconds to jump ahead. So it's--

00:14:45   Skip ahead 45 seconds.

00:14:47   Skip ahead 30-- it's 35 seconds. He's got like a-- and there's like a certain point in the song

00:14:51   like to make a line or two in where he does it, and it finishes exactly with

00:14:57   like the final strum of the theme song.

00:15:00   >> Oh my gosh.

00:15:00   >> And he's always like, he likes to nail it so that he doesn't miss a single thing.

00:15:04   It's a great feature, 35 seconds.

00:15:07   So in other words, a 30-second skip wouldn't be quite right.

00:15:10   You'd get five extra seconds of the song that you wouldn't want.

00:15:13   But I still think that there's so many little details of it

00:15:20   that getting those details right is the whole reason Apple is Apple.

00:15:24   and that they didn't with this is to me a little alarming.

00:15:28   It's such a small thing to complain about,

00:15:30   the Siri remote that comes with Apple TV,

00:15:32   but it's exactly the sort of little thing that to me

00:15:35   that there should be famous for getting right.

00:15:38   - Yeah, well, it's the small stuff.

00:15:39   And I mean, there's been plenty of talk about how,

00:15:42   despite the fact that this box has been in development

00:15:45   for four years, how rushed this version was out the door.

00:15:49   And I can't help but feel that the remote

00:15:51   was a partial casualty of that

00:15:54   because I see where they wanted it to go.

00:15:57   And I see how it's a natural evolution of the Apple TV remote

00:16:02   from the third generation Apple TV,

00:16:05   but also looking at the Apple TV

00:16:08   and looking how we work with it

00:16:10   and how it's also supposed to be a game controller.

00:16:14   I'm just like, "Apple, you didn't need

00:16:16   to make it be a stick."

00:16:18   Like it doesn't have to look

00:16:20   like the third generation Apple TV.

00:16:21   it would have been okay if it was like a little bit fatter

00:16:25   or a little bit wider or even a different shape.

00:16:28   Because it's just, you know what?

00:16:30   I don't need a remote that looks like a nano.

00:16:33   I need a remote that works and is functional.

00:16:35   - Practically speaking, there's a definite conflict

00:16:38   between the perceived aesthetic advantage

00:16:43   of being symmetric and the completely undeniable

00:16:47   usability advantage of being asymmetric.

00:16:51   Whether that's it like making it a wedge shape sort of, you know, in profile like a MacBook Air,

00:16:56   or making it a wedge shape like a Star Destroyer where it's more of a triangle.

00:17:00   I mean, there's all sorts of ways that you could make it asymmetric, right?

00:17:03   Mm-hmm.

00:17:05   Or a round type thing.

00:17:06   I know a lot of people are big fans of TiVo remotes.

00:17:09   I actually find TiVo remotes to be very pleasant to hold the peanut shape,

00:17:13   but the fact that the peanut is symmetric actually has the same problem, in my opinion.

00:17:18   that I feel like a TiVo remote would be better if it was only, you know,

00:17:23   like slightly asymmetric.

00:17:24   Yeah.

00:17:25   And you know, like a weird, you know,

00:17:26   like when you're eating peanuts and you get like a weird one where like the,

00:17:29   you know, there's like a,

00:17:30   the bottom is a little bit oversized. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

00:17:34   I'm, I'm holding the Apple TV or the Siri remote in my hand right now.

00:17:37   And I'm thinking back to the,

00:17:40   like the Jeff Daniels commercial about the four inch iPhone and like moving your,

00:17:44   your thumb from one end of the corner to the other. And there's just not enough,

00:17:47   Like I have relatively small hands and even with relatively small hands and long fingers,

00:17:52   there's not enough bottom of the Siri remote to grip in order to be able to comfortably place

00:17:58   your thumb so that you hit the like minus end of the volume button and the play/pause and also

00:18:03   access comfortably the trackpad. You're kind of like, you're gripping it with like a finger and

00:18:08   a half in order to be able to reach down that far and then also reach up. Like the actual,

00:18:14   the usable area between the buttons and the top of the trackpad is totally thumb reachable,

00:18:19   but you can't, you just can't hold it comfortably. And if you're going to hold it comfortably,

00:18:24   which is like moving it up in your hand so that all four fingers are

00:18:27   creaching it and like the bottom left corner of the Apple, or the Siri remote is like comfortably

00:18:31   in your hand, then you really have to like go into your hand with your thumb to actually reach

00:18:37   the bottom buttons. So from a, just from a comfortability standpoint and a, this is how

00:18:42   how I am holding a remote.

00:18:43   It's just, it's awkward.

00:18:44   It's awkward on your thumb.

00:18:47   - I would be remiss if I do not mention,

00:18:48   I know it'll keep some email from coming,

00:18:51   'cause I've gotten tons of it from readers,

00:18:53   pointing out, asking if I noticed,

00:18:54   and yes I did, that in the new version of the Apple TV OS,

00:18:58   I think it's version 2.2.

00:19:00   - 2, yeah.

00:19:01   - That they've changed the behavior of the remote trackpad.

00:19:04   So that's-- - Oh, it's,

00:19:06   thank God.

00:19:07   - Right, and the change is that the trackpad,

00:19:11   in terms of being receptive to fast forwarding

00:19:15   or skipping ahead, only is sensitive to that

00:19:18   once you've clicked it to pause.

00:19:21   So if you're playing video and you pick up the remote

00:19:24   and you pick it up upside down or the way you pick it up,

00:19:27   your finger touches the track pad,

00:19:30   nothing happens until you click.

00:19:32   Whereas until version 2.2, it was immediately live.

00:19:36   Which I can see, and to me it's just like,

00:19:39   just reeks of being designed in an office with the lights on and you're looking at it and you

00:19:46   can see it as opposed to being actually like play tested in a real living room at night with

00:19:52   you know where you can't see the remote or you're not paying attention.

00:19:56   Yeah you have the lights off or you have your hue lights on to movie mode or whatever and you can't

00:20:00   see the remote but moreover the biggest problem to me when I first got the Apple TV remote is I'm

00:20:05   I'm the type of person where like we have a like a deep couch. So I will usually curl up on the

00:20:11   couch to watch something and then the remote will either go on the arm or it will go on the cushion

00:20:15   next to me, which also that's probably why I'm losing all of these remotes. But what in 9.1,

00:20:22   the original you know, version of the Apple TV software, I would move and even touching the the

00:20:29   the trackpad area with like my leg or my clothing

00:20:32   would instantly start the scrub.

00:20:36   And there is a, I think it's the play/pause button

00:20:38   will take you out of the scrub motion.

00:20:41   But for the life of me, I could never remember

00:20:43   which button that was before I kind of learned

00:20:46   the interface and it's just like, you're in the scrub

00:20:48   and now you're in panic, right?

00:20:50   Because you're like, oh god, I've accidentally scrubbed

00:20:52   45 minutes ahead and I don't remember where I am

00:20:55   and I can't touch the trackpad.

00:20:57   - Right, and if you're watching with anybody else,

00:20:59   you immediately get the, "Hey!"

00:21:01   - Yeah, it's like, "What did you do?"

00:21:03   - I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

00:21:05   - Yeah, so that improvement to 9.2,

00:21:08   like there are a lot of really, really good improvements

00:21:10   in the 9.2 software update to Apple TV,

00:21:13   but that was the one where I got up out of my chair

00:21:16   and raised my hands in thanks and gratitude,

00:21:20   because I would trigger it pretty much every time

00:21:23   I watch television, and now yes, it's a little bit,

00:21:26   it's more involved and I get the thinking behind it, right?

00:21:31   The development process where they say,

00:21:33   oh yeah, well no, we want you to just be able

00:21:36   to swipe across it because otherwise

00:21:38   the feature isn't discoverable or it's not easy enough

00:21:41   and too many clicks and I get the institutional thinking

00:21:44   behind that but in usability,

00:21:47   I don't mind making the extra click to scrub

00:21:50   and in fact, it's much better.

00:21:51   - It's why you have to try stuff and you can't just think,

00:21:53   it sounds like a great idea.

00:21:55   It was totally worth trying.

00:21:57   It should not have shipped.

00:21:59   - No, usability.

00:22:00   - But it totally sounds like a good idea.

00:22:03   - Yeah. - Don't make me wait.

00:22:04   Don't make me wait for a click, just start scrubbing.

00:22:06   Oh. - Exactly, make it easy.

00:22:07   Except for the fact that your track pads

00:22:09   don't recognize the difference between a leg and a finger.

00:22:13   Or picking it up upside down.

00:22:14   - All right, let me take a break here

00:22:15   and thank our first sponsor.

00:22:17   It is our good friends at Igloo.

00:22:19   We all struggle with productivity.

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00:22:37   keep doing things your way, only better.

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00:22:45   Collaboration shouldn't be painful.

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00:22:50   And that's the way Igloo's designed.

00:22:53   go to igloosoftware.com/tts,

00:22:56   TTS being the initials of the talk show,

00:23:00   and you'll get a free trial right there at igloo software.

00:23:03   And you can just start using it right now.

00:23:06   You get a 30-day free trial for as many people as you want.

00:23:08   If you have a team of 10 people or fewer,

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00:23:12   which is fantastic for a small enough team.

00:23:15   And here's the thing, you can just use the parts of igloo

00:23:18   that you need to fill in the gaps

00:23:19   in your collaboration right now.

00:23:21   And they have got so much stuff.

00:23:22   They've got stuff like what they call a microblog, which

00:23:25   think of it as like your own private Twitter

00:23:27   just for your group.

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00:23:30   Great way to share links and stuff

00:23:32   like that that might be about competitors or something

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00:23:37   want to be able to tweet to each other in the same way.

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00:23:55   options to choose from, really, really easy to get started using it and to set it up, and it's even

00:24:00   easier to actually use. So sign up now at igloosoftware.com/tts. So maybe we should get right to the

00:24:11   iPad Pro. This is really what I want to talk about, is the new 9.7 inch iPad Pro, which I've been using

00:24:19   since the event and I still haven't written about because I'm finding it really hard to

00:24:25   not hard but it I detect on Twitter that this is in some ways to me looking at it objectively

00:24:34   the 9.7 inch iPad Pro is maybe the most purist modern like it symbolizes everything that

00:24:45   Apple is doing today overall. To me, it's like right in the middle. It's not small like an iPhone.

00:24:50   It's not big like a Mac. It's running their most popular OS, iOS 9. It's a form factor that has

00:24:59   evolved the least of anything from where it started, right? Like the 9.7 inch display is

00:25:05   exactly what the original iPad had. All they've done is make it thinner, flatter, and lighter

00:25:10   over the years. And then starting with the iPad Airs, they got rid of the bezels on the side.

00:25:14   Very, very, to me it's very, very similar in so many ways to the original iPad, just better.

00:25:21   Very much.

00:25:22   And yet to me it's the one device that I see on Twitter and I can see in my email from readers

00:25:28   that makes some people the angriest. And I, it's like to me it's like the most innocent and like

00:25:34   non, it shouldn't be controversial, least controversial computing device that Apple

00:25:43   makes an entire lineup and yet it seems to be the one

00:25:46   that makes people the angriest.

00:25:48   - How dare you insinuate that an iPad might ever replace

00:25:52   my beautiful, wonderful Macintosh, how dare you?

00:25:56   That's the gist, right?

00:25:58   - Yeah, the gist of it is outrage at the claim

00:26:01   that you can get, you could do your work on it

00:26:05   or that anyone could do their work on it

00:26:08   and that it therefore doesn't deserve to be called pro,

00:26:10   even though just putting the word pro in the name

00:26:12   seems to rile some people up.

00:26:14   And I don't get it.

00:26:16   And I come at this from the perspective of somebody

00:26:20   who even just earlier on the show

00:26:21   talking to you about the podcast.

00:26:22   Me personally, I won't say couldn't

00:26:25   'cause couldn't is too strong a word,

00:26:26   but I don't like working from an iPad of any sort

00:26:31   compared to working on a Mac.

00:26:34   - You don't prefer it.

00:26:35   - I do not prefer it.

00:26:36   And I often, I feel hamstrung.

00:26:40   I feel like I'm doing my work with chopsticks

00:26:45   instead of with my fingers directly.

00:26:47   - Yeah, I was right there with you until last November.

00:26:51   And I feel like that's totally fine.

00:26:55   Folks who have been using the Mac for years

00:26:59   and years and years who have extensive workflows on the Mac

00:27:03   and are comfortable with their Macintosh,

00:27:06   I completely understand why the initial impression to the iPad is a little bit of abject horror

00:27:13   and even like a...

00:27:15   I'm making like the cartoon like oh evil like hands crossed frightened face about about

00:27:23   the iPad.

00:27:24   But it's not it's not here to take away your Mac.

00:27:29   Like I really I really feel like maybe it's just a bumper sticker that comes with the

00:27:34   iPad.

00:27:35   This isn't intended to destroy the iMac or even really to destroy the laptop.

00:27:40   It is a different type of computer.

00:27:42   I don't, I really don't get the anger. And I say that, like I said,

00:27:45   as somebody who personally does not really strongly does not prefer to use it

00:27:50   for what I would consider my work. Um,

00:27:53   I, that's me personally. I don't,

00:27:56   but I completely don't deny that other people would see advantages to it.

00:28:01   And I, so I don't understand the anger at it and I, you know,

00:28:04   And I guess, and I think it maybe even plays into

00:28:09   like what we were saying earlier when we were saying

00:28:11   that your poor 11-inch MacBook Air got drowned,

00:28:16   that it's not a good time to buy a Mac.

00:28:18   And so, I love that the Mac rumor is buying guide,

00:28:22   which is a great service.

00:28:23   Whenever anybody asks me for advice

00:28:25   on should I get a new Mac now,

00:28:26   I don't even listen to rumors.

00:28:27   I just say, "Just go look at the Mac rumors buying guide."

00:28:29   And they don't even really go by rumors.

00:28:31   They list them, I guess.

00:28:32   But for the most part, it's just how many days has it been since the last time Apple revved this device?

00:28:39   And what's the average in history for this device in terms of how long does Apple go?

00:28:45   And if it's green, I mean, hey, this is a fairly new product.

00:28:48   Definitely, you should feel free to buy it now because it's probably early in the product cycle.

00:28:51   And then they have like a yellow like, eh, mid range.

00:28:54   And then red means, look, this is overdue.

00:28:57   Historically, this is overdue for a revision.

00:28:59   Well, right now, just about the entire Mac lineup

00:29:02   is in the red.

00:29:03   - Everything except the iMacs, yeah.

00:29:05   - Everything except the iMacs that have these,

00:29:07   the new high gamut displays.

00:29:11   And I just think that's historical circumstance.

00:29:15   I just think that's just the way it's worked out

00:29:17   with Apple's focus and with Intel's roadmap and et cetera.

00:29:22   And I think we'll see revisions to an awful lot of stuff

00:29:26   either before WWDC or at WWDC in June. But I kind of feel like, and in some kind of emotional way,

00:29:35   it contributes to the anger that people are worried that people who are worried that

00:29:41   this means that they're going to either make the Mac go away or just not pay attention to the

00:29:49   entire Mac lineup, that it's proof of it. Or make it different because you really think about it

00:29:54   it with the exception of the 4k and the 5k iMac. The last real new Mac we saw was the 12 inch MacBook,

00:30:00   which also made a lot of people mad for different reasons. Well, but sort of different and similar

00:30:06   reasons. Yeah, because in terms of only having a headphone jack and one USB C port and literally

00:30:16   not even a separate one for power. That was the only two things you can plug in. It is sort of

00:30:21   the iOSification of Mac hardware.

00:30:26   Like I think the way I wrote last year

00:30:28   was that a lot of people have been worried for a long time

00:30:30   that Mac OS is software is going to get iOSified too far

00:30:35   and take away what we love about the Mac operating system.

00:30:39   And what we've seen actually with the MacBook

00:30:41   is it's really the hardware that's gotten more like iOS

00:30:44   than the software where there's no battery

00:30:47   to take out anymore.

00:30:49   I mean, at this point it almost feels silly

00:30:51   that we used to be able to take out our MacBook batteries.

00:30:53   Oh, yeah. I mean, and you honestly even look at other

00:30:56   folks who have like smartphones where you can take out the

00:30:58   battery and you're like, what? This is a thing.

00:31:00   Yeah, I

00:31:03   ram that soldered onto the motherboard.

00:31:05   Yeah, God forbid you were able to replace your own RAM. I mean,

00:31:08   it was great. It was, you know, their trade offs, but it's

00:31:10   definitely I don't see how anybody could deny that that the

00:31:13   Mac hardware has gotten very large injection of the design

00:31:18   sensibility of iOS.

00:31:19   Yeah, but it also goes back, I mean, to almost the first, you know, the first real generation

00:31:24   of Macs too, because the Mac Plus was not exactly very tinkerable. Right. When you think about it,

00:31:29   like you could expand the RAM, I think that was about it. Well, that was when they first started

00:31:34   using special screws that you could. Yeah. Right? So it's not, it's funny to me when the people are

00:31:39   like, oh, Apple has never done this before. You used to be able to tinker with all your hardware.

00:31:43   And I'm like, no, I think you were a PC user in the 90s. Apple has never really,

00:31:48   There have been bits and pieces.

00:31:50   But yeah, the new MacBook, and it's funny,

00:31:53   because I did, when I drowned my Air,

00:31:55   that was the question of like,

00:31:56   "Okay, what's my next laptop gonna be?

00:31:59   "Am I gonna go to the 12-inch MacBook USB-C?

00:32:02   "Is that gonna happen?

00:32:04   "Am I gonna pray that they come out with a revved Air,

00:32:07   "which is probably never going to happen?

00:32:09   "Am I gonna go back to a Pro?

00:32:10   "Or am I just gonna keep on using the iPad?"

00:32:14   That's a big question mark for me,

00:32:17   because I will always have a desktop Mac.

00:32:19   Like there's no question.

00:32:20   I need a superpower machine

00:32:23   that I can do high quality editing on,

00:32:25   that I can for now do podcasts on,

00:32:28   with a little bit less complication

00:32:30   than trying to use two devices.

00:32:32   But as a laptop, I've like, as I was saying,

00:32:35   I was very skeptical of doing work on an iPad

00:32:39   because I had tried, I tried in 2010,

00:32:42   I tried in 2012, I tried in 2013,

00:32:45   I tried in 2014 when the iPad Air 2 came out.

00:32:48   Um, and when the iPad pro finally came out,

00:32:51   the only reason why I spent more than three

00:32:53   days with it was the pencil being like,

00:32:55   Oh, well I can draw on this thing.

00:32:57   So I took it and nothing else on a two

00:33:00   week vacation.

00:33:01   And I was just kind of like, you know what,

00:33:02   I'm going to take this because I want to draw.

00:33:04   And I'm mostly on vacation, so I don't have

00:33:08   to worry about doing a lot of work, but if I

00:33:10   have to do work, I'll figure out some way to

00:33:13   like muddle through it.

00:33:14   Right.

00:33:15   And what I ended up discovering was in those two weeks,

00:33:19   I ended up doing quite a bit of work because of course,

00:33:22   the iPad Pro had just come out and I started writing

00:33:24   like the iPad Pro experiment series on iMore,

00:33:27   which was just me attempting to do various facets

00:33:32   of my normal work on the iPad

00:33:34   with surprisingly good success,

00:33:38   with the exception of podcasts,

00:33:39   which were still like a horrible hell storm to do.

00:33:44   I figured out ways to do photo editing and to post my stuff and to do all of my research

00:33:51   and to write and to make movies, to cut movies, to cut audio.

00:33:59   And the more I used the pro and the more I used workflow, which Federico Vittucci at

00:34:05   Max Stories, his guides have basically been invaluable to that.

00:34:08   The more I got started to get really comfortable with it, right, where it's like it felt a

00:34:12   a lot like the first time I ever used copy paste shortcuts on the Mac when I was like

00:34:18   nine and my dad was like, "P.S. here's a faster way to do all of the like write the same sentence

00:34:22   five times in a row." But it felt like that. It felt like, "Oh, I kind of understand how

00:34:30   an iPad is supposed to be used as like, or rather how it's supposed to be used as a professional

00:34:35   work device, how I can use it as a professional work device." And once I got into that mindset,

00:34:42   It became a lot easier when I came back and I did have the MacBook Air accessible and

00:34:46   I did have my desktop.

00:34:47   I was like, "Okay, I can do all of this on my iPad and it has the 10 hour battery and

00:34:54   I have cellular so I never have to worry about whether there's Wi-Fi if I want to upload

00:34:58   something and I don't have to deal with the hassle of setting up personal hotspot."

00:35:04   It became much more comfortable, but it was a two, three week process.

00:35:10   It was very much a dive in head first and I'm going to be frustrated for about a week

00:35:16   and then I'm going to figure stuff out and some things I'm going to figure out and some

00:35:20   things are still going to be impossible with a Mac.

00:35:23   And in the end it was how many things can I do comfortably without the, like you were

00:35:28   saying at the beginning, without the hassle, without the feeling that you're basically

00:35:31   trying to fit an elephant into a compact car.

00:35:38   I always, I always like the analogy of feeling like you're going uphill on a bike versus

00:35:42   downhill.

00:35:43   Yeah.

00:35:44   That when you're in the flow and you have a computer that set up the way you, you know,

00:35:48   whatever, whatever operating system.

00:35:50   But if you feel like you're on a bicycle that's going downhill, that's when you're getting,

00:35:54   you feel like you're, you feel great.

00:35:57   Yeah.

00:35:58   You feel like you're as productive as your mind.

00:35:59   You're only limited by your own brain.

00:36:01   And when you're going uphill, it, when it feels like you're going uphill, it just feels

00:36:05   like, "This sucks. The system is slowing me down. I'm fully caffeinated. I'm midday. I

00:36:12   feel great. I feel like I've got good ideas that I'm writing or whatever I'm doing." But

00:36:17   if you feel like you're frustrated by the tools, it somehow brings you down, the sense

00:36:25   of going uphill, because you feel like, "I could be doing better."

00:36:29   It's like when you're really sick and you have all of the great ideas in the world,

00:36:34   because your body is letting you down, you can't execute any of them. And you're like,

00:36:37   "But I want to do this, please!" Yeah, and there are still definitely some tasks where I feel that

00:36:43   way with the iPad. But after spending some time forcing myself to use it and getting over the

00:36:49   initial hump, it feels a lot better. 3D Touch actually was something—I just wrote an article

00:36:55   over the weekend about that where you were complaining a little bit about 3D Touch,

00:36:59   and Jason Snell was complaining a lot about 3D touch. And I'm like, I totally get where you

00:37:04   guys are coming from because there's a lot about 3D touch that's unfinished and a lot of it that

00:37:09   just doesn't click properly. But there were some features, you know, I forced myself, for instance,

00:37:15   to use like the left side deep press to get into multitasking and using the keyboard as like a

00:37:23   cursor so that you could move it rather than using the old style. And those two shortcuts alone made

00:37:28   3D touch I think I called it I was like 3D touch is a niche I can't live without

00:37:32   because with those two features my iPhone productivity is so much faster

00:37:38   than it was pre iPhone 6s and like even with all of the problems with 3D touch

00:37:44   that's like those two things are like no all of the devices have to have 3D touch

00:37:48   and god forbid what if the home button disappears maybe 3D touches are like

00:37:51   initial way into that getting us comfortable with that but you have to

00:37:55   use it, right? You have to force yourself to use the left side multitasking shortcut because we're,

00:38:02   we've been trained for what, six, seven, eight years now to, to press the double press the home

00:38:09   button since iOS four to bring up the multitasking shortcut. And if you don't give it a, like, if you

00:38:14   don't force yourself, you're not going to get out of your old habits and you're not going to be able

00:38:18   to see if the new habits are potentially faster or potentially slower. Yeah. I think it, it highlights

00:38:24   It's just an inherent problem in designing systems.

00:38:29   Systems meaning like the basic UI of a computer.

00:38:33   - Yep.

00:38:34   - Touch screens on the Mac to me is a perfect example.

00:38:36   We still don't have them and I still,

00:38:38   I don't think we ever will.

00:38:40   'Cause it just doesn't work to have an interface

00:38:42   where the elements are so close to each other to be--

00:38:46   - They're so tiny.

00:38:46   - Fine, and they should be because the mouse

00:38:49   is a very fine instrument or trackpad

00:38:52   or whatever you're using for input on the Mac, it's so fine.

00:38:56   I kind of feel like 3D Touch though is that way to iOS,

00:39:01   where if we had had 3D Touch right from the start in 2007,

00:39:05   I feel it would be integrated with the system

00:39:07   in a way that kind of can't be now,

00:39:10   because they can't just make things

00:39:11   that are essential for it,

00:39:12   because only the iPhone 6S and 6S Plus have it.

00:39:17   Even the new iPads don't have it.

00:39:19   So every other iOS device, there needs to be a way to do the 3D touch stuff without

00:39:24   it.

00:39:25   Yeah, and for that I look to Live Photos as a good example of something where this is

00:39:30   something that is exclusive to the 6S, the 6S+, the small iPad Pro, and the iPhone SE.

00:39:37   And only two of those four devices have 3D touch.

00:39:42   So they just said, and also they have of course Live Photos on the Apple TV and Live Photos

00:39:46   support on the Mac to look at it.

00:39:49   they're like, okay, well, how do we still show the like shift from still photo to live photos? And on

00:39:55   the on the iPad and on the iPhone, it's just a long press. And I'm, I mean, I think you mentioned

00:40:01   that in your in your sort of overview of Jason's article where it's like, it makes a lot of sense

00:40:07   to tie 3d touch to a long press gestures, be especially because if you've ever used a 3d touch

00:40:13   device, and I think about it from the home screen primarily, is trying to actually trigger the

00:40:19   the difference between a long press and a 3D touch

00:40:21   and a light 3D touch is almost impossible.

00:40:24   You try and edit your home screen and it's just like,

00:40:27   nope, you're gonna preview an app icon.

00:40:29   Nope, you didn't do it right either.

00:40:32   So I don't understand why they didn't just jump

00:40:35   into the idea of let's just design iOS 9

00:40:39   so that a long press equals 3D touch.

00:40:42   - Can I tell you one of the other minor annoyances

00:40:44   that I have with 3D touch?

00:40:44   And I love the idea of hard pressing the apps

00:40:49   on the home screen and getting shortcuts.

00:40:51   - Oh yeah.

00:40:51   - And there's some great,

00:40:52   Apple's done some great stuff with that.

00:40:54   And I know that a lot of third party utility makers

00:40:56   have some really clever stuff in there.

00:40:58   But the one that drives me nuts is for the phone app.

00:41:02   It's like you can't set who the people are.

00:41:04   It's like the phone--

00:41:05   - No, it's just like three random people.

00:41:06   - And the logic of it doesn't make any sense to me

00:41:09   because I would guess that at least half of all the calls

00:41:14   I ever make are to my wife.

00:41:17   sometimes she's not listed and it doesn't see I don't know how there could

00:41:20   be any algorithm that would that would guess as to who I'd want that list that

00:41:25   wouldn't include her based on my outgoing call history and yet sometimes

00:41:29   she's not listed sometimes she is and sometimes she's not I just wish that I

00:41:33   wish that feature would just let me pick three people like just say like top

00:41:37   three people in my phone favorites and that's it yeah it's funny because

00:41:41   clicking my clicking my phone right now it is the top three people in my phone

00:41:45   favorites but I'm also pretty sure that that's again that's random I'm it's the same thing with

00:41:51   messages too is like messages doesn't show the most recent people that you've texted and I'm like

00:41:57   why why doesn't it just show the three most recent people wouldn't that make the most sense yeah I

00:42:02   don't know I don't know what they're doing but it's definitely that's not what they're doing no

00:42:06   and that's I mean that's a factor of Apple being weak on certain algorithmic things in the first

00:42:11   place. We did a retrospective on iOS 9 like six months in and one of the things that still

00:42:18   irritates me is the whole promise of Proactive was really awesome and I was really excited about,

00:42:24   you know, oh yeah it'll frequently know what apps you're using at this time of day because it

00:42:29   technically has all of that information and it's all local to your device. But Siri suggestions

00:42:35   rarely really helpful. On weird random occasions it is, but more often than not it is just a couple

00:42:44   of apps that I may have used recently. And let alone the lock screen app suggestions, I feel like

00:42:51   I've only seen that once or twice in my life since installing iOS 9. You know where it's like "Oh

00:42:56   yes, it'll show you a swipe up in the bottom left hand corner for the most recently used app you

00:43:01   use at like nine in the morning. I don't I've never seen that. I'm waiting for it to show me like

00:43:06   Tweetbot. Go read your tweets because you always do this every morning. Right.

00:43:10   So before we go any further, so you're you're when you say you're portable as an iPad Pro,

00:43:19   you mean the 12.9 inch, right? I mean the 12.9. Yeah, I've got both sitting on my my desk right

00:43:24   now. But when I say the and I'm working on the review, because like you, I've been spending a lot

00:43:30   lot of time using it rather than writing about it. But when it comes to replacing a laptop,

00:43:36   whole hog, you know, not having a MacBook in the wings, the 12.9 inch has to be the way to go for

00:43:43   me because of split view and keyboard alone. All right, I disagree. But we'll get back to that.

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00:45:34   Fracture. Go get some pictures printed. I like the 9.7 inch model better but I

00:45:40   think it's possibly related to the fact that, like I said, I don't really do

00:45:45   work on the iPad. I just use it for reading. And I've always liked it for reading. And

00:45:50   I used to. I mean, this is how badly my eyes have gotten worse as of rocketing into my

00:45:55   40s. But like when the iPad Mini first came out, I loved it. I was like, "This is the

00:45:59   iPad for me," because I can hold it in one hand. But it's like, even in the years since

00:46:07   that's come out, which haven't been that many, the fact that it's just the same number of

00:46:11   pixels as the 9.7 inch iPad shrunken down, it's a lot easier for me now to use

00:46:17   a 9.7 inch just because it's the same interface bigger. Oh yeah. So if I were

00:46:23   younger I think I would still be a fan of the iPad mini form factor. Now that

00:46:29   I'm getting older I like the 9.7 and to me the 12 it just isn't suitable and

00:46:34   I've gone back now that I have both of them as you know called the iPad Pro

00:46:38   here in the house, I've gone back to it and I see why other people like it. I can see

00:46:42   why people like it, especially if they're using it on a desk. But for me, it's not as

00:46:47   good a size. And I find, much like Jason Snow, who wrote a review of the Smart Keyboard,

00:46:53   I expected to really despise the keyboard because of the size, but I've actually found

00:46:57   myself, I'm pretty good at typing on it. It's about as, I mean, it's not as good as a full

00:47:02   size keyboard. I mean, I can't say that. But it's way better than I expected.

00:47:06   Yeah, it's serviceable, which is a lot better than I can say for many, many, many other

00:47:12   keyboards. And I've used Bluetooth keyboards and USB keyboards for both the iPad mini,

00:47:18   which used to be my go-to iPad actually, and the 9.7 inch iPad, old original iPad and iPad

00:47:27   Air and iPad 2. It's interesting to me because I think there is a very big divide where the

00:47:34   The 12.9 inch is not the device for people who want to read or people who want to like

00:47:40   casually draw or just have an iPad.

00:47:44   Like I really think especially with the 9.7 coming in and having the smart connector and

00:47:49   having access to the pencil, the 9.7, I mean it's the sweet spot for iPad size, right?

00:47:54   It's the iPad size that they have been developing since 2010 and it feels great in the hands.

00:48:00   Like I thought that I was going to get the 9.7 to look at it and to review it and then

00:48:04   I was going to return it because I was just like it's you know I've got a I've got a big

00:48:09   iPad.

00:48:10   I don't need another iPad even though it's pretty I have it in rose gold it's nice but

00:48:13   I don't need it and I think I might keep it around because it is as you said it is really

00:48:20   nice for reading and it's so light in comparison like my 12.9 inch iPad.

00:48:25   here's my confession about this is that basically my 12.9 inch iPad is a MacBook with a touchscreen,

00:48:33   what I've turned it into. I have it encased in like this gigantic Logitech create keyboard

00:48:38   case which turns it into like a three pound computer, which is heavier than my MacBook

00:48:43   Air. And on that side, I'm I feel silly because I'm like, I've just turned this incredibly,

00:48:50   you know, fairly still fairly light piece of technology. And I've basically shoved it

00:48:55   in like one of the ugliest iPad cases I've ever seen in my life, although it is bright

00:48:58   red so at least I've got that going for me.

00:49:01   But overall it's not, it's not, it doesn't look like an iPad.

00:49:07   It looks closer to a surface when you, if you'd see it from behind than it does from

00:49:11   an iPad and you'd only be able to tell that it's an iPad if you came back like behind

00:49:15   me and looked closely at the way that it was designed because it has the home button.

00:49:19   But I've basically, the 12.9 inch does not come out of this case.

00:49:24   I will occasionally take it out if I'm like showing it to somebody and they want to like

00:49:28   feel how heavy it is.

00:49:30   But to me it is like it is part of this keyboard and that's partially because the Logitech

00:49:35   Create keyboard is it has a beautiful home row that has shortcuts that just make using

00:49:42   iOS like a desktop where you can have you know it has a quick to home button and it

00:49:47   has a search button which will automatically close the app you're in and pull up spotlight.

00:49:52   You can do command tab on it.

00:49:54   So it's basically a laptop.

00:49:55   It is a laptop with a multi-touch on it and split view.

00:50:02   Split view on the 12.9 when you're trying to do actual work is really nice.

00:50:07   It's basically two portrait iPads side by side.

00:50:11   It's not, again, not the perfect implementation of multiple windows, but I actually like,

00:50:16   I almost like it a little bit better than the tiered window system that OS X has, especially

00:50:21   for writing, because it's a lot calmer.

00:50:23   Right. I look at my any of my Macs at any given time including the one on my Mac

00:50:29   I'm staring at right now and it's there's a there's a sense to it. I'm not lost but it's

00:50:35   I'm also displeased by the clutter that yes

00:50:38   It is it's there's a method to my madness and I know which apps tend to be on which sides and and stuff like that

00:50:46   But it doesn't look nice and neat whereas the iPad

00:50:49   forces neatness because it's, you know, you can only have two limitations at a time. And they're

00:50:55   always open at the set, you know, like 50/50 or two thirds, one third. And there's a certain

00:51:05   clarity, you know, that that is very appealing to me, the fact that you cannot make it messy. And

00:51:10   that, you know, and again, I think you're right. And I don't think it's any surprise that one group

00:51:16   of people who find the iPad the most appealing as a true work machine are writers is that

00:51:22   it, you know, because the lack of clutter can help focus your mind.

00:51:27   So no doubt I see the appeal of that, but it's still, I don't know, there is something

00:51:31   there.

00:51:32   It gets back to like my complaint about 3D touch not being integrated because it wasn't

00:51:36   there from the beginning.

00:51:37   I find that the multitasking in iOS still isn't quite, it's not quite seamless because

00:51:43   it wasn't there from the beginning and the fact that every app doesn't support it and it's

00:51:47   impossible to predict which apps are going to or not.

00:51:50   And finding the apps in that right picker. I don't think I've ever used that picker honestly.

00:51:54   I opened it once and I was just like no.

00:51:56   Well then how do you do multitasking if you don't use the picker?

00:51:59   Command tab. So I always have my iPad connected to that create keyboard. So the ways that I switch

00:52:07   is just constant command tab, command tab, command tab and I'll open one app and then I'll split

00:52:12   screen it and then I'll just command tab until I find the right apps for it.

00:52:16   To put in the other.

00:52:17   Exactly, exactly. And it's still, you know, it's not perfect because there, as you said,

00:52:23   it's something that was essentially developed what, last year?

00:52:26   And it's missing things like drag and drop, which would be crucial between one pain to the other

00:52:32   pain and which it just does not have for sandbox reasons and probably just development reasons.

00:52:39   And I made a whole laundry list of potential features that the next generation of iOS for

00:52:46   iPad is currently lacking that people who are using it for professional uses desperately want.

00:52:52   But if you want to use the iPad as a professional machine, you basically have to attach a keyboard

00:53:00   to it right now. And you can use, you know, it's nice, the touchscreen is nice, because then you

00:53:05   can turn it into something else. Like what I really liked about the 12 inch, 12.9 inch is

00:53:10   that I can take it with the keyboard and I can write up a storm and I can do professional work

00:53:15   and then just as easily I collapse it you know on top of the keyboard and it's just a screen and I

00:53:20   can use that in the pencil and very quickly like edit dust out of photos for like I'm more hero

00:53:27   shots or you know I went on a um I helped some friends take some engagement photos and I was

00:53:34   using one of the adapters I just pulled out the SD card and I uploaded them all onto my iPad and

00:53:40   we were able to basically go through them on that 12.9 inch screen with like with the couple behind

00:53:45   me immediately pick out the favorites and then send all of those to Lightroom so that I could

00:53:50   you know properly batch and color correct them and that took you know probably 15 minutes where

00:53:56   on a on a Mac it probably like it's not it's not that the workflow would have been it's like

00:54:01   dramatically more difficult, but it's just, it's taking out some of the steps and it's a little bit

00:54:07   easier, you know, it's easier to view an iPad and pass it between people than it is to like,

00:54:12   pick up a laptop and hand it. It's just, it's slightly, slightly different use cases. And again,

00:54:20   it's not that one is better than the other, like overall, I think they're both great machines,

00:54:25   especially when you talk about portability. But if you're doing certain, certain tasks,

00:54:31   And especially if you're variating tasks,

00:54:33   you don't just use your laptop for writing.

00:54:36   You wanna edit photos or you wanna draw.

00:54:39   That's when the flexibility of having an iPad

00:54:43   with the keyboard that also just turns into an iPad

00:54:46   when you need it is really something special.

00:54:48   - I find that one of the things

00:54:55   that slows me down the most,

00:54:56   and there's just, I don't know if it's ever gonna be

00:54:59   good enough is the ability to precisely select ranges of text.

00:55:03   Like, and I don't know, maybe it's, I,

00:55:07   because I do so much of it, it's, it's, and I've done it for years.

00:55:12   Like I'm really, really,

00:55:13   really fast on a Mac at taking my mouse or a track pad if I'm on a Mac book and

00:55:18   selecting exactly the range of text that I want, copying,

00:55:21   command tabbing to the other app and pasting it where I want it to go.

00:55:24   And I find that like that to me is one of those things that always feels like

00:55:27   I'm pedaling uphill on an iPad.

00:55:30   - Without a keyboard, it's awful.

00:55:32   - Yeah, and with a keyboard, it's definitely better.

00:55:34   - With a keyboard, all of the keyboard,

00:55:37   you know, text selection shortcuts work.

00:55:39   So I basically just, you know,

00:55:41   I'll do like command control and use the arrow keys

00:55:43   and command shift and just, you know,

00:55:45   select everything I need that way.

00:55:47   And that and like command C,

00:55:49   like all of the shortcuts that I normally,

00:55:51   and I've pretty much moved entirely away

00:55:53   from mouse-based text selection.

00:55:56   once I figured out the right set of keyboard commands to use,

00:56:01   the only place where this bites me in the ass in iOS,

00:56:04   and it's one of the things that you mentioned it earlier

00:56:07   where like some apps don't support split view,

00:56:09   well, some apps don't support, you know,

00:56:11   simple things like keyboard shortcuts.

00:56:15   And I'm not calling out anybody here, Google,

00:56:17   have basically a hate, hate affair with the iPad right now,

00:56:24   where things like, for instance, in Google Docs,

00:56:27   an em dash doesn't work.

00:56:29   You try and do the keyboard command for an em dash

00:56:31   and it just won't, it just doesn't exist.

00:56:34   And it's just like things like that

00:56:36   or being able to select text just doesn't exist.

00:56:39   - How can, I mean, how do you even break something like that?

00:56:42   Maybe they have like a command tied to it.

00:56:44   I remember when the first version of TextMate came out

00:56:47   and as a long time BBA that user,

00:56:49   the appeal of it escaped me, but I also kept an open mind

00:56:53   I thought, "Well, I can see why people don't like BB Edit even though I love it."

00:56:56   And therefore, if they don't like BB Edit, maybe this is the glass of ice water in hell

00:57:01   that they've been waiting for.

00:57:02   But there were so many weird things in the first version of TextMate, including the fact

00:57:06   that there was a menu command that was tied to just option P. Just like it was some kind

00:57:13   of like print setup or I don't know.

00:57:15   But some command in the app, you had to type option P. And I thought, "Well, wait.

00:57:21   in a world instantly as a long-time Mac user, I thought, well, how would you type the Pi character?

00:57:25   And the answer was, now you can't. And it just was that like the guy who made the app didn't know

00:57:32   that, you know, that you that option plus a character was not for menu commands. It was

00:57:37   really reserved for typing extended characters because he was relatively new to the Mac. It

00:57:43   just didn't occur to him. Like, we should never not be able to type in MDash.

00:57:49   - No, and it makes you feel stupid,

00:57:54   and then it makes you question, is the keyboard broken?

00:57:57   And finally you get to the point where you're like,

00:57:59   oh, Google just didn't build a good fucking app.

00:58:03   You know, sorry, I'm swearing

00:58:04   'cause I'm very angry about this.

00:58:06   - I'll give an example.

00:58:07   Here's an example on the iPad Pro of an app that I love.

00:58:09   I would, and I, you know, there's a rant in me

00:58:12   holding it up, I love Tweetbot for iOS.

00:58:14   I consider Tweetbot for iOS to be my favorite iOS app,

00:58:18   period by Apple or from anybody else.

00:58:22   But that's primarily based on my interaction

00:58:28   with it on the phone, and I find that their iPad version

00:58:31   is not, it's good, it's still is,

00:58:32   it's the iPad Twitter app that I use,

00:58:34   but there's little things about it

00:58:36   that I don't like as much.

00:58:37   - The embeds are so big, that's my problem.

00:58:41   It's like you shake up the entire screen.

00:58:43   - My thing is that I don't know what to do

00:58:44   with that right-hand column when you have it in portrait,

00:58:47   or not portrait, landscape.

00:58:49   And I have it, and using the iPad in the keyboard,

00:58:53   it has to be in landscape.

00:58:55   But the other little thing that they don't do,

00:58:58   and again, I'm complaining about an app that I love,

00:59:02   but it's not hooked up to the space bar in any way

00:59:05   in terms of just scroll down, scroll down, scroll down.

00:59:08   - Yeah, you can't just--

00:59:09   - You have to put your finger on the screen,

00:59:11   which sort of defeats the comfort of using the iPad

00:59:15   in a laptop configuration with any keyboard.

00:59:18   One of my complaints with the iPad Pro 12 inch

00:59:23   or 12.9 inch back in September

00:59:25   was that using this space bar to scroll

00:59:28   was messed up in so many apps.

00:59:30   Like Safari scrolled by very strange amounts.

00:59:33   - It was like page and a quarter.

00:59:35   - Yeah. - And then it would skip

00:59:36   like two paragraphs every time you try to just use it.

00:59:38   - Yeah, so like, and scrolling too much

00:59:41   is way worse than scrolling too little

00:59:42   'cause at least if it's scrolling too little,

00:59:44   you just have to hit space too many times.

00:59:46   Whereas if it scrolls more than a screen,

00:59:48   you've actually missed text and it defeats the purpose.

00:59:50   Apple, commendably, has actually done a lot of work.

00:59:54   And one of my biggest things that I would sing the praises

00:59:57   of using the iPad Pro,

00:59:58   and that just applies to both iPad Pros at this point,

01:00:01   but it's, 'cause it's an iOS 9.3 thing,

01:00:03   but the space bar does what I mean in way more cases,

01:00:08   including, especially in Safari.

01:00:10   So you open up Safari,

01:00:11   and even if you're at a weird scaling factor,

01:00:13   because it's not like an iPad optimized thing.

01:00:15   You hit space and it scrolls by a sensible amount.

01:00:18   Almost every time, I can't remember,

01:00:20   in the weeks I've been using this,

01:00:22   I can only remember a handful of cases where it didn't work.

01:00:26   Another thing they do that's great is,

01:00:28   and I think it's new, 99% sure it's new,

01:00:30   is that when you're using mail,

01:00:32   the up and down arrows always go

01:00:33   to the next and previous message.

01:00:35   So you can do, I find myself able to triage my inbox

01:00:40   and just go through all of my unread emails

01:00:43   from the day on the iPad with the keyboard

01:00:45   way, way better than I could before iOS 9.3,

01:00:48   simply for the fact that I can just use

01:00:50   the up and down arrows to go between messages.

01:00:53   - Yep, and you can use the delete key to get rid of them.

01:00:55   So it's really nice.

01:00:56   - Big, big improvement.

01:00:58   But the fact that Tweetbot doesn't really do anything

01:01:00   with the keyboard really kind of,

01:01:02   I'm not gonna say it's useless,

01:01:03   'cause that's hyperbole,

01:01:04   but if I wanna do Twitter on the iPad Pro,

01:01:08   I find that I need to take it off the keyboard.

01:01:11   - Yeah, I usually, I almost never run Tweetbot full screen.

01:01:15   I'll usually run it in like 70/30

01:01:17   where it's the 30 little bit.

01:01:19   And then I'll have my thumb in like the bottom right corner

01:01:22   of wherever the iPad is like propped up.

01:01:26   So I'll just scroll really little bit that.

01:01:28   But it's a problem.

01:01:29   And for me, for something like Tweetbot,

01:01:32   I read it bottom up.

01:01:33   Like I won't read from like most recent,

01:01:35   I still am sort of a timeline completionist

01:01:37   because I apparently hate myself.

01:01:39   (laughing)

01:01:41   So it's like, I just need arrow keys,

01:01:43   like the space bar would be bad for me.

01:01:46   But there are apps like that,

01:01:47   there are apps where it's half finished.

01:01:49   And that's, I think, key to a lot of folks' iPad

01:01:54   as a work machine complaints.

01:01:56   And honestly, was my complaint until very recently,

01:01:59   when the pencil came out,

01:02:01   my perception of iPad had to change,

01:02:05   because the pencil is basically

01:02:07   what I've been asking for since 2010, as like, this is an amazing drawing device.

01:02:12   And even if it sucks at everything else, I'm going to carry it around, because it's an

01:02:16   amazing drawing device.

01:02:18   So if I have to carry it around, and at this time, the 12.9 inch was the only model, if

01:02:22   I have to carry it around, well, I might as well at least figure out what else I can do

01:02:26   with it.

01:02:28   And turns out, I can do quite a lot.

01:02:30   But when I was coming to the iPad in prior versions, like even the iPad Air 2, I was

01:02:36   so excited about it for about a week and then it went into like my bookshelf of iOS devices

01:02:42   and then I never touched it because I just I hadn't found anything the iPad was really

01:02:47   good for. Where it's like it's it's great for reading but because I had at the time

01:02:55   you know I had I had switched to an iPhone 6 plus just to try it and have since gone

01:03:02   back to the 6s. But with a screen that big, I was so lazy about getting off the iPhone

01:03:10   and reading on a device that was better for me, despite the fact that the iPad has a much

01:03:16   nicer screen and is much more comfortable honestly in the hand to read than trying to

01:03:22   prop up the iPhone with your pinky because it's just small enough that you think that

01:03:26   you can balance it like that while you read. I was just being lazy about it. I was blowing

01:03:31   off the iPad for that and just because when I would try and do something professionally,

01:03:37   like when I try and prep an article with earlier versions of iOS and get to the point where

01:03:42   I couldn't upload thumbnails, like I couldn't upload a video or a photo because the upload

01:03:48   file button in Safari didn't work, I would just throw up my hands and be like, "Well,

01:03:53   you know, F this. This is stupid. This is not worth my time."

01:03:56   And since--

01:03:57   Again, it feels like you're using chopsticks instead of your fingers.

01:03:59   Exactly, exactly.

01:04:00   Except sometimes when it's something like you can't even get to the file upload thing from Safari,

01:04:05   it's like using a Lego robot to control chopsticks from across the room.

01:04:10   Yeah.

01:04:12   And it's like, you know what, I'm just, it'd be easier for me to just go upstairs to my Mac.

01:04:15   It would actually be easier to get up from where I am and...

01:04:17   To not be lazy.

01:04:19   Even if you're not home, like it would be easier for me to go home and get on a Mac and do this.

01:04:26   Yeah, and since then, you know, iOS 9 has a file picker built in and iCloud Drive and

01:04:31   Workflow both make it so much easier to deal with files on iOS than, you know, it actually

01:04:37   feels like a normal file system when you set it up to your liking, which is really nice.

01:04:43   But I feel like so many people have had those bad experiences where they go in and they

01:04:48   try and do something on iOS and it just does not work full stop, that they've given up,

01:04:53   or they or they see something not work and they're just like well that's never going

01:04:57   to get fixed and why would I even try I don't even like the iPad that much so I get I get

01:05:04   the hesitation and I and that's honestly why I'm really excited for the 9.7 inch iPad Pro

01:05:11   you know as somebody I'm going to use the 12.9 at least until I get a MacBook a new

01:05:17   a new Mac laptop if I get a new Mac laptop because it's it's comfortable and it mostly

01:05:22   does what I need, like 90% of my job I can do on an iPad Pro.

01:05:27   And I can do it in such a way that it doesn't make me feel like I'm tearing my

01:05:30   hair out where it's actually enjoyable. Um,

01:05:32   and in some cases better than on my Mac.

01:05:34   But for the vast majority of people,

01:05:38   they're either not going to have the time to give that a try or they're just not

01:05:41   going to be interested in giving that a try.

01:05:43   And the 9.7 inch both in cost and form factor,

01:05:47   I think is a lot easier sell of a here's a way to get into iPad and to mess

01:05:51   around with iPad without having to make the commitment of this is going to be your only

01:05:56   device and you're going to carry around or you're going to carry around a three pound

01:06:00   iPad and keyboard along with a Mac. The iPad Pro, the baby the baby Pro as I've been calling

01:06:07   it with one of like Apple's smart keyboards and and like a back cover doesn't weigh that

01:06:14   what weighs like 2.3 maybe if that.

01:06:19   - I've got it in my hand right now

01:06:21   with the keyboard cover on and I don't know what it weighs,

01:06:24   but if you think of it just as an iPad,

01:06:27   it feels like this is a very heavy cover.

01:06:29   - Yeah.

01:06:30   - And if I could take the cover off and just hold the iPad,

01:06:33   it's like, wow, that cover really weighs it down.

01:06:34   But if I think of it as a portable computer,

01:06:36   you could take around it,

01:06:37   I remember what it used to be like to take.

01:06:39   - Oh yeah.

01:06:40   - Even the earlier Airs, it's like,

01:06:42   "Wow, this is absolutely amazing."

01:06:44   - In comparison, yeah, it's like you're...

01:06:47   I was holding the 9.7 inch outside

01:06:50   'cause I was trying out the two-tone display,

01:06:53   drawing outside, and we had a pretty gusty day,

01:06:56   and the thing almost blew out of my hands

01:06:58   'cause it's just, it's so light,

01:06:59   and because it's flat like that, you get it the wrong way.

01:07:03   It's a really nice, you know, it's a nice shape to hold,

01:07:06   it feels really great, and you pair it with a pencil.

01:07:09   Like the thing I'm really, I'm most excited about

01:07:12   is getting this into the hands of kids and teenagers

01:07:16   who are interested in drawing,

01:07:18   who are interested in doing more unconventional things

01:07:22   with a computer than you might do traditionally with a Mac.

01:07:26   There's an, I've been testing drawing apps,

01:07:28   I've been testing handwriting apps and things like that.

01:07:31   There's an app that allows you to make your own fonts.

01:07:34   - Oh, I saw your article about this.

01:07:37   - This is, this was, it blew my mind.

01:07:40   because I used to date somebody who was a professional typographer and built fonts,

01:07:46   and I would watch him for hours and hours while he would perfect kerning and change

01:07:52   drawing paths. And with the pencil, not only is it really easy to just sketch out your

01:07:59   initial set of characters in this app, but it has all of the kerning features and all

01:08:04   of the path adjustments that the professional version of Fontographer would have. And you can

01:08:12   upload it directly to the system with a profile. So you can literally make your own font and then

01:08:19   install it immediately on iOS and use it in a project like Pages, which is just, it's like that

01:08:25   very specific niche thing I feel like is going to make typographers sing for joy. Because you can

01:08:32   start this and then you could bring it somewhere else, right? You could start a font, you have a

01:08:37   stroke of inspiration, and you can start a font on your iPad, whether it's a 9.7 or a 12.9,

01:08:44   and then bring it to your Mac and work on it more. I see so many kids, like if I had had a device

01:08:53   like this as a kid, my Wacom is probably the best, the most comparable thing, and even that was so

01:09:00   light years behind what this is.

01:09:02   It's so much potential and the price and the size

01:09:08   and the fact that it works with the pencil just,

01:09:10   I feel like, poises the potential for huge, huge growth

01:09:15   in that sector, assuming that people will buy into it.

01:09:20   - I'm wondering, 'cause one thing about it is that

01:09:23   if you get the whole rig, meaning, let's say,

01:09:25   the mid-capacity one, 749, and then you want the cellular

01:09:30   cellular it goes up to I think that's 849? It's an extra 129. So it's an extra 100 at least 100 bucks

01:09:40   120 bucks the keyboards 150 bucks and the pencils 100 bucks so overall you're looking at even just

01:09:46   for the 128 one you're looking at at least like $1,100. Yeah and it's a it's pretty expensive if

01:09:54   you want to try and outfit it. Now there's all sorts of those things that aren't necessarily

01:09:58   required. You don't have to get the cellular one. You don't, you could get, you know, thankfully,

01:10:04   the mid, the entry level is 32 gigs, not 16 gigs. And decently priced. Right. I think if you know

01:10:13   that you're never going to draw, you could, I think most, I think you can skip the pencil. I

01:10:18   think if you, you know, there might be some handwriting type things that you could do with

01:10:23   it, but I think as a general rule, if you know you don't draw, then I think it's easy to know

01:10:28   not to get the pencil. Or if you're not planning, the other thing that I think the pencil does really

01:10:32   well is precision editing. So if you're if you're a photographer, or if you're anybody who's doing

01:10:37   any kind of film work or editing work, audio work, this is can be really, really it's like,

01:10:44   it's imagine the most precise mouse that you can. That's really cool. But yes, if you don't,

01:10:50   if you're not doing those things, then absolutely. Yeah. And my, you know, very small sample survey

01:10:56   of asking my wife, who is a very, she loves her iPad.

01:11:00   Her iPad is her portable computer.

01:11:02   She has an iPad Air 1, I guess.

01:11:05   So she's due for an upgrade.

01:11:06   I mean, she uses it, I mean, just hours every day.

01:11:12   And so this is perfect for her, the 9.7.

01:11:14   I was like, do you want the keyboard?

01:11:16   And she's like, no way.

01:11:17   Because she'll peck out text messages

01:11:20   on the onscreen keyboard, but she doesn't want a heavier

01:11:23   cover.

01:11:23   She wants the light cover.

01:11:25   And she still used to use her Mac for if she really has like a long email to write. She's goes to her Mac.

01:11:30   Sure.

01:11:31   And do you want the pencil? And she's like, what would I use it for? And I was like, I don't know. She goes like, no, I don't want a pencil. So that was it. So it's, you know, I think, but I like that it's just a sensible, like, do you get or not get that you don't need to spend the extra 250 bucks on the keyboard and the pencil if you're not going to use them? And the answer is yes. But still, that's a pretty, you know, it's not like you're saving money by getting an iPad Pro instead of

01:11:54   a MacBook. I mean, you know, maybe compared to a MacBook Pro, but you know, you're still talking

01:12:00   about $1,000, $1,000 plus setup, which in the grand scheme of the industry is not that cheap.

01:12:06   JILL RILEY-GRIFFIN No, it's not. It just depends on what you're using it for, right? Because

01:12:10   if it if you don't, if you don't have the intention of ever using the pencil, I feel like

01:12:18   for 99% of people, a Mac's probably going to be better. But if you need touchscreen accessibility,

01:12:25   or if you have any desire to work with the pencil, the iPad instantly becomes a really,

01:12:31   really exciting piece of technology, especially good.

01:12:34   Well, I want to tell you my favorite before I forget, I want to I want to get this out.

01:12:37   There's my favorite iPad pencil hack is take the cap and put it either throw it away or just put

01:12:44   it somewhere there you're never going to use it again and don't ever use the cap and instead use

01:12:50   the little lightning adapter as the cap and i keep the little lightning adapter on the pencil at all

01:12:56   times and that means that you can charge the pencil at any time either way you can either

01:13:01   charge it as a male or as a female at any time that's fun and i don't understand why it wasn't

01:13:08   like this why they're not encouraging that like the cap doesn't do any purpose other than to cover

01:13:13   the protect the lightning port. Right. And instead, they give you the little they give you this

01:13:19   little adapter that you can use either way. That's it. That's a good hack. I like that.

01:13:23   You know, although to be honest, I have never charged my pencil with anything but the iPad

01:13:29   in that we like wacky configuration. Right? Just never. Because it charges so fast with the iPad

01:13:36   that I never even think like if I bring my pencil somewhere and it's like 5% battery,

01:13:40   literally five minutes gets you 20-25% charge, which is kind of crazy to me.

01:13:46   But you can charge it the other way and it's if you have an iPhone charger.

01:13:49   Oh yeah, but then you have to find the wall, right? And it's like the beauty of the iPad setup to me

01:13:56   is that as long as my iPad's charged when I leave the house, I don't have to bring connectors.

01:14:02   Do you use the cap?

01:14:02   I don't even have to worry about it.

01:14:03   Or do you just keep the lightning port exposed?

01:14:06   I have the cap on. Someone on Twitter, and I can't remember who it is now, gave me the amazing tip

01:14:13   where the cap is magnetic, so it'll grab on to the smart magnets, the smart cover magnets on your

01:14:20   iPad. So when you take the cap off to plug in the pencil to the iPad, you just drop it on the iPad.

01:14:26   And it's actually really, it's a fun game. You can just drop it anywhere on the iPad and it'll

01:14:30   go and grab on one of the smart cover magnets. So that's my, that's my, and my, my other iPad,

01:14:37   good iPad pencil hack is buy a $2 micron pen and then steal the clip off the micron pen and then

01:14:43   you can just slide it over the silver pencil. So I have a nice little clip there.

01:14:48   Oh, keeps it from rolling too. $2 micron. All right, I'm going to write this down.

01:14:54   So that's the micron pens have like a clip that is the right sort of has exactly the

01:15:00   right size. Yep. Right. What would you call that? The right diameter? Yeah. Diameter circumference.

01:15:05   One of those six to one. Well, six to one half of those. Yeah, exactly. Six to one

01:15:09   pie times the other. Yeah. Option. Option P. There we go. We have a theme for this episode.

01:15:17   Yeah. So what else is there to talk about with the iPad Pro? There's the display. This is the

01:15:24   thing. And I know Jason and I talked about it last week and everybody's, you can't not talk

01:15:28   about it, that there is a weird like off-cycle pace to the iPad Pros where even though this one

01:15:38   is six months after the 12.9 inch one, it has some technology that is clearly like an entire

01:15:46   generation ahead, specifically with the display, with the fact that it has the True Tone feature

01:15:51   for changing the color temperature of what's on screen based on the ambient color of wherever it

01:15:56   it is that you're using it. And this new, I think I'm going to misspeak, but more or

01:16:01   less that it has a high, it displays a higher gamut, significantly higher gamut of colors.

01:16:05   What is it? PC three? It's the same. It's the same color gamut is on the 4k and 5k IMAX,

01:16:10   which is pretty neat, which is extremely neat. And I think all of this is going to come everywhere

01:16:15   eventually. Oh yeah. Within, I'm going to say like three years, two, three years, every Mac,

01:16:21   every iPhone, every iPad will have the high gamut and the true tone.

01:16:26   Because both of them are just remarkable.

01:16:30   It's mind blowing.

01:16:31   You know, I don't know if you ever get this, John, because you run your own site and you're

01:16:35   not really beholden to publishing schedules, but I'll occasionally do this thing on iMoreWorld.

01:16:39   I'll write a really good story and I get so excited about like it was originally planned

01:16:44   for say after the weekend or it's planned to like go live on Wednesday and I'm just

01:16:48   like I'm just going to publish it now.

01:16:49   I don't care if it's 11pm at night.

01:16:50   I'm just gonna just gonna go with it now and that's kind of what I feel like true tone is on this on this iPad is

01:16:55   Is Apple being like we developed it and it's ready and we could wait until the iPhone 7

01:17:00   But you know what?

01:17:01   This will allow us to

01:17:03   to get some bugs ironed out while we figure out how it works on the bigger screen and then we can bring it to the

01:17:07   Smaller screen and then we can bring it to the Mac and it'll be great. Let's just launch it now guys, right?

01:17:12   Exciting right even if the fact is that it really makes for a very

01:17:18   Ultimately, I think that the two iPad pros will be it'll be like choosing between MacBook pros where really the main thing is the duh

01:17:25   Which size do you want? Yeah, it's a screen and maybe it may be a little bit more RAM and you know

01:17:31   Like in the ways that the hood stuff right in the ways that like a 15 inch MacBook Pro

01:17:35   outperforms the 13 inch ones by a

01:17:39   Small degree but like what you would you know, it just seems intuitively. Well, yeah, of course, it's a little a little bit better technically

01:17:47   But it's not like that at all with the with the two iPad pros today. It's the the display quality

01:17:53   Yeah, the display quality of the nine point seven one inch. It's just

01:17:57   Vastly different. I mean that true tone is incredible. It's just the first time

01:18:02   When I was setting up the iPad, there's the there's the button where it's like

01:18:06   Would you like to use true tone display and it's just a little blue button

01:18:10   That's like with true tone and then you press it and it turns on without true tone and I made a gif of it because I'm

01:18:14   I'm just like, this is so star--

01:18:16   Like, I didn't even realize the screen was slightly orange.

01:18:19   And normally I'm very attuned to that stuff.

01:18:21   Like, I couldn't use Flux for years on my Mac

01:18:23   because it would just drive me crazy.

01:18:25   But this is much subtler than Flux

01:18:26   and even much subtler than Night Shift to a certain extent.

01:18:29   It's just-- - Oh, way different.

01:18:30   - It's very good.

01:18:31   It's very good.

01:18:32   - I actually think that it is confusing

01:18:34   that it's shipped alongside Night Shift as an OS feature

01:18:39   because to me they are, no pun intended, like night and day.

01:18:44   where night shift is a very dramatic effect.

01:18:48   And I've made, I've definitely made more people

01:18:51   who read "Daring Fireball" angry with my comments

01:18:53   on night shift than anything I've done recently.

01:18:56   Because I'm, of the, I've linked to numerous of the things

01:19:00   that have, like Glenn Fleishman had a good piece,

01:19:02   that the science that says that you get a better night's

01:19:05   sleep because of this really is very, very questionable.

01:19:08   Whether people find it more comfortable for their eyes,

01:19:11   though, that's completely subjective.

01:19:13   And I have friends who say, "Oh man, I swear by this.

01:19:16   I love that I've been using Flux for years

01:19:18   on my max at night,

01:19:19   and I don't know how people work at night.

01:19:21   I work hours and hours every night,

01:19:23   work late into the night,

01:19:25   and it's all thanks to Flux that my eyes don't get tired."

01:19:27   I believe that,

01:19:28   but that doesn't mean you're getting a better night's sleep.

01:19:30   It just means that your eyes are less tired.

01:19:32   - But if your eyes are less tired,

01:19:33   like certain other things may improve.

01:19:36   But it's correlation.

01:19:37   - Me personally, I can't stand it.

01:19:39   I find that the color shifting is just gross,

01:19:42   but it's also very subjective.

01:19:43   I just find it very gross.

01:19:46   I think whether or not you like the feature or not,

01:19:48   this is what I'm trying to get at,

01:19:49   whether you like that feature or not,

01:19:51   call it night shift in iOS or flux on your Mac,

01:19:54   it is without question very, very noticeable.

01:19:58   - Very.

01:19:59   - Whether you like it or not,

01:20:00   I just don't see how anybody could deny

01:20:01   that it is a dramatic difference.

01:20:03   True Tone, on the other hand,

01:20:07   while it sounds like it's doing the same thing,

01:20:10   it sounds like it's a similar idea

01:20:11   where it's taking sensors and color temperature

01:20:13   and shifting the color temperature.

01:20:15   In practice, it is invisible.

01:20:19   - And I think that you kind of hit the nail on the head

01:20:21   in terms of the sensors because Night Shift,

01:20:24   to my knowledge, is almost entirely,

01:20:26   it's geolocation and software-based.

01:20:29   And the actual, like the range of the tone,

01:20:33   that's entirely changeable and adjustable in settings.

01:20:36   So it really depends, it's user dependent

01:20:39   where you have to go in and shift like how blue or how warm do you want to see your display

01:20:45   at night. Whereas True Tone takes all of that away. It's like do you want it on or do you

01:20:50   want it off? And then just does it.

01:20:52   I keep finding that with True Tone as I use this iPad Pro more and more, I keep thinking

01:20:58   like wait, I keep thinking myself, you have totally overblown this feature because it's

01:21:03   not doing anything right now. Here it is, it's 9.30 at night so it should be kicking

01:21:09   in because the sun's down and I'm using incandescent lighting and I can just tell looking at this

01:21:13   screen that this isn't doing anything at all and then I take any one of my other devices

01:21:16   and look at it side by side.

01:21:17   Put it next door, yeah.

01:21:18   And I'm like, "Oh my god, that is so disgusting."

01:21:22   It's crazy!

01:21:23   And you're like, "How was I staring at this blue piece of crap?"

01:21:26   But the more that I use it, the more I convince myself that it's not doing anything at all

01:21:31   until I look at any of my other devices that don't have it side by side and I see just

01:21:35   how weirdly off all the white, you know, all the colors are. It's it is a wonderful feature.

01:21:41   Oh, it makes me it makes me so mad that they hadn't perfected it in November because that

01:21:46   would have looked so pretty on the 12.9. But I yeah, it's, it's the problem with releasing

01:21:51   different sizes at different times, they could have held the entire iPad Pro launch until the spring.

01:21:56   But because of this is probably where the rumor cycle bites them and other things they wanted to

01:22:02   launched the iPad Pro in November so they launched what they had and the smaller iPad Pro as a result

01:22:07   gets some of the niceties. It gets the PC3, it gets the True Tone display. The camera features

01:22:12   I honestly think is just a yeah we can fit it in a 9.7 inch and there are people who are going to

01:22:18   use their iPad Pros as cameras whether we tell them to or not and also on the professional film

01:22:24   side there are cinematographers who say yeah the 9.7 inch screen is really nice for location

01:22:29   scouting so it would be nice to have a 4k camera so I get that I'm not too heartbroken about not

01:22:34   having a 4k camera on my 12.9 inch iPad but god do I wish I had True Tone. It does seem but it is

01:22:42   a weird it's just again it's like you said I think you said it perfectly it's it's not like people

01:22:47   who have the 12.9 inch iPad Pro are dying to have the better camera but it does seem weird now side

01:22:53   by side that the cheaper smaller one has a better camera than the more expensive bigger one. Yeah

01:22:57   - Yeah, I mean-- - It just seems weird.

01:22:59   - It is, it is.

01:23:00   And it's probably component parts falling

01:23:04   after the new year or something else like that,

01:23:06   or they just didn't, you know, they couldn't fit it

01:23:08   or the camera bump, I don't know.

01:23:10   - My guess, here's my guess, is that it was

01:23:12   either they couldn't get 'em in September

01:23:16   or they just didn't wanna take the chance

01:23:18   because it's the same camera system

01:23:21   as the iPhone 6S and 6S Plus,

01:23:24   and that to make sure that they wouldn't hamper production

01:23:27   iPhones. They didn't want to put it in. They just didn't want to either they either they knew they

01:23:31   couldn't get enough of them or that they just didn't want to take a chance of putting a hiccup

01:23:35   in the iPhone supply chain. I believe that especially pre-Christmas. Right. That's just

01:23:40   that's a dangerous thing to have. Right because that first quarter is just it's crazy how high

01:23:46   stakes it is for Apple because it's both the launch quarter and the holiday quarter. Oh yeah

01:23:50   they I mean they crammed so much stuff in this past year and I thought I thought last year was

01:23:56   was a little bit crazy, but this year they really just like,

01:23:59   all right, we got the phones, we got the iPad,

01:24:02   we've got the Apple TV, we're just gonna go,

01:24:04   we're gonna go, we're gonna make it happen.

01:24:06   The other thing the 9.7 does not have,

01:24:10   and this is the thing that I think ultimately

01:24:12   will keep me from switching to it,

01:24:14   is the USB-C quick charge.

01:24:16   - Right. - It's really nice.

01:24:18   Being able to use USB 3,

01:24:20   being able to take advantage of that quick charge,

01:24:21   'cause the 12 watt adapter,

01:24:23   Like, I mean, granted, I rarely charge my iPad except overnight, so I don't get a huge

01:24:29   amount of use out of it.

01:24:30   But on the days when I'm like, I have caught audio and cut video on my iPad before, and

01:24:36   in those days I will bring like the new USB-C charger that I just got, which was strangely

01:24:42   shipped alongside the 9.7-inch iPad, but the 9.7-inch iPad not able to use it.

01:24:49   And that thing actually charges like a laptop charger.

01:24:53   Like it makes, it makes the iPad actually have a, have a charger that is functional.

01:24:59   Whereas before, like the 12 watt adapter trying to plug that into the 12.9 inch iPad Pro,

01:25:03   it's like, okay, uh, if you're plugging this in while you're working on it, you're going

01:25:07   to see your battery drop 2%.

01:25:09   Yeah.

01:25:10   Like it doesn't do anything.

01:25:11   Right.

01:25:12   It's fake.

01:25:13   You really kind of have to just sit there and wait.

01:25:14   Now, and I find that the iPads, I do find one of the advantages of it and I don't think

01:25:19   that the battery life estimates really,

01:25:22   the published tech specs for the battery life

01:25:25   of these devices, to me, it's misleading,

01:25:28   'cause I don't, I get way more battery life out of an iPad

01:25:31   than the specs would show compared to an MacBook.

01:25:34   And I think it's simply the basis that I actually,

01:25:38   I tend to run a stupid number of Safari tabs at a time,

01:25:42   and I have a stupid number of apps that are open at a time,

01:25:45   and so there's just more going on

01:25:48   as like a baseline CPU level on any of my MacBooks

01:25:51   compared to the iPad, which enforces this sort of mostly

01:25:54   one app at a time thing.

01:25:56   And like Safari, you can have a bunch of tabs open,

01:25:59   but only the frontmost tab actually is running anything.

01:26:02   I just get, practically speaking,

01:26:05   if I start the day with a full charge,

01:26:08   I can't use the iPad enough to really run it down.

01:26:11   I just can't.

01:26:11   There's nothing I can seem to do.

01:26:13   And so I don't, sometimes I wake up,

01:26:16   And if I'm like, Hey, let's use this iPad pro.

01:26:19   Cause I want still want to write this review.

01:26:20   And I realized I haven't even charged it in two or three days and the battery

01:26:23   functional.

01:26:24   Right.

01:26:24   And the battery is kind of low because I just haven't plugged it in in days.

01:26:28   Yeah.

01:26:29   Which never ever happens with, with other devices.

01:26:31   Cause you just are vaguely aware that, you know, if you're doing a lot of work

01:26:35   on a Mac book, you need to charge it at some point and same thing with an iPhone

01:26:38   throughout the day, like you just don't accidentally go three or four days

01:26:42   without charging your phone.

01:26:43   No, because it just, it wouldn't work or your Apple watch.

01:26:46   But with the iPad, it's actually, it's possible.

01:26:48   It's very possible.

01:26:49   Yeah.

01:26:50   Especially if you don't use it a hundred percent of the, like the iPad pro, if

01:26:54   you're using it, like you'd use a laptop, it's pretty normal to kill it or kill

01:26:58   like 75% of the battery on a, on a full day is work, but if you're just using it,

01:27:04   you know, like you do, where you're using the iPad for reading and maybe a little

01:27:08   bit of writing and you're going on the go, you can, you can get like three or

01:27:11   four days out of charge of that thing.

01:27:12   It's crazy.

01:27:13   But it is true though that the USB,

01:27:16   the super USB-C charging on the iPad,

01:27:18   the big iPad Pro is a tremendous feature.

01:27:21   And once you've had it, it's really,

01:27:23   it's another one of those things

01:27:25   where once you've had it on one device,

01:27:26   it's really hard to go back to any of your other devices

01:27:28   and accept the fact that it takes seemingly forever

01:27:32   to charge them.

01:27:33   - Yeah, yeah.

01:27:34   And, 'cause I do like a lot of the 9.7 inch iPads.

01:27:39   Like the True Tone is so beautiful.

01:27:42   And I love, by the way, I love that it turns off whenever you go into a photo

01:27:47   editing program. Um, so it automatically, it automatically understands that,

01:27:51   which is pretty great. Um,

01:27:53   but also I used an 11 inch Mac book air for so long that I'm like 9.7 inches

01:27:58   isn't really that much smaller. I could totally do work.

01:28:04   And after two weeks on this, I'm just like,

01:28:06   I just like the 12.9 inch screen so much better for like physical,

01:28:11   like the multitasking, but it just doesn't,

01:28:13   the two iPad mini apps side by side

01:28:15   just doesn't work for me on the 9 7.

01:28:17   - No, I agree.

01:28:18   Well, I don't, it doesn't work as well

01:28:20   'cause it doesn't feel as much.

01:28:22   The way that on the 12.9, it feels like two full,

01:28:26   they're not quite full size,

01:28:27   but they feel like two full size iPad apps side by side.

01:28:29   And on the smaller iPad, you don't get that.

01:28:32   - Small iPad is basically a pill

01:28:34   if you're trying to multitask.

01:28:36   - Anyway, long story short,

01:28:38   I think it's a tremendous device

01:28:39   and I think people's anger at it is misplaced.

01:28:42   And I think it's kind of fascinating

01:28:44   how true it has stayed to the original iPad idea from 2010.

01:28:49   - Yeah, yeah, and sometimes to its dismay,

01:28:55   I'm really annoyed that that stupid FaceTime camera

01:29:00   is still in portrait orientation,

01:29:02   especially given the iPad Pro moniker

01:29:05   where you're kind of, you know,

01:29:07   you're pitching it on the idea

01:29:09   that you're probably going to use it in a keyboard case for a certain amount of time.

01:29:13   So if you ever use FaceTime or Skype, your video is often weird to the side. It's like

01:29:19   one of my such a little pet peeve about the hardware, but it's so irritating.

01:29:23   Yeah, it's I don't see what they how they that's a tough design problem, though. Because

01:29:28   other than putting a second FaceTime camera in at the other spot, I don't know what else

01:29:34   they could do.

01:29:35   Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's it's definitely it's difficult if you're assuming that people

01:29:40   are going to want to use it in portrait. And with the 9-7, I get that a little bit more

01:29:45   because the 9-7 is comfortable to use in portrait. But the 12-9 is is so gargantuan in portrait

01:29:52   that it just feels wrong to use it that way. Like it just doesn't it's not comfortable

01:29:57   in any way, shape or form. And I don't know. But yeah, but you're absolutely right. It's

01:30:03   like do you put in two cameras and then have extra space there? Do you kill the portrait

01:30:08   orientation FaceTime camera and then make people who hold the 9-7 in portrait have an issue?

01:30:14   It goes back, again, it's another thing that goes back to the original usability. Well,

01:30:18   the original iPad. The original iPad had in prototypes had two 30 pin connectors,

01:30:24   one that's right, one for landscape and one for portrait. And it was decided so late in the game

01:30:31   to get rid of it, that the coordinate system of what was then called iPadOS was based on

01:30:39   landscape as the default orientation, even though they ended up shipping it where the

01:30:47   30-pin connector was on the bottom. Because remember, and again, coming full circle,

01:30:52   the original iPad had a hardware keyboard accessory. It was just, instead of being like a cover,

01:30:57   it was actually like a little hardware. Yeah, the iPad dock.

01:30:59   Yeah, and but you had to you know, the only way to mount it was to put it in portrait

01:31:05   which was a little bit weird because you know, I

01:31:08   You know as evidenced by what they've ended up coming back to with the smart keyboard

01:31:13   When you do have a keyboard attached it makes more sense to be in landscape. Yeah overall. No, it just feels more natural and

01:31:22   Especially if you're multitasking because multitasking portrait just doesn't make sense

01:31:27   Right, but it's just a funny thing that they've that they've come back to

01:31:31   But in the same way you can see why in

01:31:34   Theory you might want to have smart connectors on the bottom and the side, but I can see why Apple

01:31:39   It didn't do that. Yep

01:31:42   All right. Let's take a break before we move on to new topics

01:31:47   And this is anything else you want to talk about with iPad Pro

01:31:49   No, I think I think I've gotten through most of it

01:31:53   I encourage everybody to try pencils if they haven't already, because I do think it's really

01:31:57   fun even if you don't think you're an artist or don't think you're going to draw.

01:32:01   Well, not the worst thing you could blow 99 bucks on.

01:32:04   No, exactly. They're far, far less useful things.

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01:34:47   What else we got? Did you try the iPhone SE? I did. I don't have one, but I've picked it up. I

01:34:53   have put it in my hand. I've put it in my pocket. And I think I'm stuck with the 4.7 inch. It's

01:35:01   nice in a lot of ways and I do really like the 4-inch screen but my downgrade was going

01:35:10   from the 6S+ to the 6S and I don't think I could go from the 6S+ all the way to the iPhone SE.

01:35:16   So since I published my review I've noticed one new thing and I didn't notice it beforehand

01:35:21   because I think it's just the nature of the weather when I was writing my SE review but

01:35:27   it's that an outside on a sunny day, the extra contrast of the newer displays is noticeable.

01:35:34   Really?

01:35:35   There was, I was out the other day, I'm still using the SE as my main phone, and it wasn't super

01:35:40   sunny, but it was like a nice, a nice April day in Philadelphia. And I realized I couldn't read the

01:35:44   phone. And I was like, wow, that's weird, because I know that if I had my 6S, I could read it.

01:35:50   And I had to get in the shade or something like that. So I think the extra contrast,

01:35:54   it's harder to notice to me indoors or not in the bright sunshine, but in sunshine,

01:36:01   it makes a difference. Yeah, I can definitely see that and given how often I strangely use my phone

01:36:08   in sunshine, despite not being somebody who goes outside a lot. Yeah, I don't know. Our newest

01:36:17   employee at iMore, Lori Gill, just got, she's been waiting two years for them to upgrade the

01:36:23   four inch model and she just got an essay and she loves it. She's like, can't stop singing its praises.

01:36:27   Yeah, I hope that you know, I hope they keep the size along. I hope so. I don't I really really

01:36:33   I'm, you know, and I know I wrote about it and talked about it recently. I really am convinced

01:36:37   that they're not going to have a four inch phone this September. But, you know, I just hope they

01:36:41   keep it up to date enough that it seems relevant for people who prefer it. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't

01:36:46   even mind if they kept it on a March schedule, right as a like, I mean, 30 million people is

01:36:50   still a lot quite a lot of buyers and 30 million people continue to buy this as

01:36:55   kind of their again their pseudo low-cost iPhone where it's not quite an

01:37:00   iPhone you know 6c but it's it's an option for people who want a slightly

01:37:06   cheaper iPhone that has maybe like six months ago internals but also the the

01:37:11   four-inch form factor a lot of a lot of really good stuff on the camera like it

01:37:16   is really the fact that they have all of the camera features well most of the

01:37:20   camera features plugged into the four inch screen like that's it's a really nice device if you want

01:37:26   something small and portable to run around and take photos with. I find it I really do find it

01:37:32   using it as a camera and it's one of the things I knew this but going back it's like the same way

01:37:39   that like whenever you get a faster iPhone you know that it's faster but sometimes the best way

01:37:44   to actually feel how much faster it is is give it a couple of weeks and then go back to your older

01:37:48   phone and the going to the slower one actually shows you how much faster the

01:37:53   new one is than using the faster one because you get used to the fastness of

01:37:57   the fast one and to me the grip ability of the of the device especially when

01:38:02   used as a camera just I don't know just the way I tend to hold the phone when

01:38:06   I'm taking pictures it feels so much more secure in my hands than the the

01:38:11   round-sided 6s form factor. I really hope that someone in Apple's design team, maybe Johnny,

01:38:20   but some either someone in his team, I don't know, takes a look at how many people are praising the

01:38:26   fact that they're going they went back to the 5s form factor and really takes a good hard look

01:38:30   about what the iPhone 7 shape is going to look like because I like I have not used any of the

01:38:38   6, 6S series phones without a case. I just can't, I can't do it because I've shattered three of them.

01:38:44   Like, it just does not fit. Like, it's a beautiful device. Like, I have the 6S and Rose

01:38:49   Gold right now. And it's, I wish I could use it without a case. But it just does not fit. Like,

01:38:54   it'll slide out of my hand. I would want to, I would love to know, because you know,

01:38:58   Apple knows this. Oh, yeah. Is exactly what percentage of these devices have been dropped,

01:39:03   or at least have been dropped such that they require a...

01:39:07   - A screen repair.

01:39:08   - Right, or even just brought in,

01:39:11   maybe it's like a minor crack or scratch or something,

01:39:14   and then when the person's told what it costs,

01:39:16   they choose not to do it,

01:39:17   but at least registers as a,

01:39:18   this person dropped their phone.

01:39:20   I cannot help but think that the number of people

01:39:23   who've dropped their 6S and 6S Plus is greater.

01:39:26   And maybe part of that is just because it's bigger,

01:39:28   but I can't help but think that part of it

01:39:30   is because of the round sides.

01:39:32   - Oh yeah.

01:39:32   and me is like Apple wanted to sell more AppleCare Plus and they're like, "All right, let's just go to this design factor."

01:39:38   Because it's got to be like 20-30%, right? I mean, maybe not people who actually get it repaired, but I'm pretty careful with my phones.

01:39:48   I don't fling them across the room and I generally try and keep them free of scratches because I got to take pictures of them.

01:39:55   But I'm careful and I dropped my phone probably three feet and had it shatter into a million pieces.

01:40:02   So, I don't know. I'm really curious.

01:40:05   My track record is that I've never once bought...

01:40:08   I haven't bought AppleCare for any device since my original...

01:40:12   the first Mac I ever bought in 1991.

01:40:14   Wow.

01:40:15   I just don't buy AppleCare.

01:40:17   And at this point, I mean, I've saved so much money by not buying AppleCare for anything

01:40:22   that, you know, I could buy like a...

01:40:26   even like a brand new MacBook Pro and have it go completely dead

01:40:30   as soon as the day after the one year warranty goes up

01:40:35   and still be ahead because of all the money

01:40:37   I haven't spent on Apple Care over the years.

01:40:40   So I'm just not a believer in it.

01:40:41   Because I try to be careful,

01:40:43   maybe I've just had good luck with not getting lemons.

01:40:46   And with iPhones, I've had a couple of drops over the years.

01:40:52   And I remember one time with my original iPhone,

01:40:55   I had a drop where it was gonna hit like a cement floor.

01:40:59   and I shot my right foot out and kind of, I didn't quite catch it with my foot, but

01:41:05   it like almost caught it with my foot such that it then only dropped about like four

01:41:10   inches onto the sidewalk. And it was like completely unscathed. And I was like, wow,

01:41:15   that was…

01:41:16   Very lucky.

01:41:17   That was very lucky. It was a lot more lucky than coordinated with my level of coordination.

01:41:22   It was pretty good. So I had no screen breakages. One time with the original phone, almost,

01:41:27   It seemed like it was destined to, but it didn't.

01:41:29   So I've had the iPhone, the iPhone 3G, 3GS,

01:41:34   the 4, the 4S, the 5, the 5S, and up until that point,

01:41:39   had never once broken the screen.

01:41:41   The worst I'd ever gotten was everyone always seemed

01:41:44   to develop a scratch on the screen at some point,

01:41:47   and I never once did I ever remember when that happened.

01:41:51   It would just be like one day in certain lighting,

01:41:53   I would notice a very fine scratch,

01:41:55   and then I would be very sad.

01:41:57   But certainly I've never once had a scratch that I would even consider going in and paying,

01:42:02   you know, whatever the prices were to get a new screen. Yeah. And then when I had the iPhone 6,

01:42:09   within like the first three months of owning it, I had two times where I dropped it and the screen

01:42:14   cracked. Yep. It's just it those corners are a really hard to grip and be prone to breaking

01:42:21   because of that slightly wrapped glass. It just doesn't. It's beautiful in a beautiful

01:42:28   in a conference room, beautiful in a sealed factory, not so great when there's hardwood

01:42:33   and concrete wherever you go.

01:42:35   You know, and so part of it might just be luck, but it just seemed to me like having

01:42:39   it happen twice. And then, you know, now that was a year ago, and then I've been using for

01:42:44   the most part since then the same size phone, either that that iPhone six or, you know,

01:42:49   in the last six months my success and haven't dropped that but I think I have to be more

01:42:54   I'm I feel like I have to it's because I'm more conscious of how conscientious maybe

01:42:59   is the better word of how I'm holding the phone yeah after two screen breaks you kind

01:43:03   of you have to adjust your your usability right and the one time I did it it was I was

01:43:08   I really was I was framing a photograph and it just slipped I don't even know how it slipped

01:43:12   out of my hands it just slipped right out of my hands like a bar soap and just fell

01:43:16   straight down onto a carpeted floor and it was like in a store and I thought, "Ah, that's

01:43:23   fine.

01:43:24   It's a carpeted floor."

01:43:25   Picked it up.

01:43:26   Nope.

01:43:27   Totally shattered.

01:43:28   That's the worst.

01:43:29   But I couldn't believe it that it wasn't like I butterfingered it.

01:43:31   It wasn't like I butterfingered it taking out of my pocket or something or while putting

01:43:35   it back in.

01:43:36   No, you were holding it.

01:43:37   I was holding it and framing a photograph and as I tried to move my thumb to take the

01:43:40   thing, it just went, "Shoop."

01:43:43   Never ever happened with any previous iPhone.

01:43:45   Oh my gosh.

01:43:46   Yep.

01:43:47   Yeah, so I am pro different form factor.

01:43:50   As pretty as this is, I would really like to not

01:43:53   wrap my phone in a giant case.

01:43:56   Oh, you know what?

01:43:56   I've been using the Apple battery case on the 6S

01:44:00   because I was a little worried going back from my 6S Plus

01:44:03   that the lack of battery life was gonna kill me.

01:44:07   And I actually really, aside from the fact that it's white,

01:44:10   I hate the fact that the battery case is white,

01:44:13   but I actually kind of like this.

01:44:14   This feels really good in the hand and I'm kind of shocked by that.

01:44:17   Yeah, it gives you I'm telling every and I, I said it and everybody, you know, I

01:44:22   think Marco said it on his podcast recently, the way that you can rest your

01:44:25   pinkies on the back of the hump.

01:44:27   Oh, it's so nice.

01:44:28   It's very, very nice.

01:44:29   It's actually it's a very strange looking thing.

01:44:32   But in hand, it actually feels very nice.

01:44:34   Yeah.

01:44:35   And honestly, you know, you don't really see the hump because the hump is usually

01:44:39   in your hand.

01:44:40   You know, you're not usually laying it out for people to enjoy the fact that you have

01:44:45   a little credit card sized battery attached to the back of your case.

01:44:49   It's actually an interesting contrast with our earlier discussion of the Apple TV remote,

01:44:55   which is designed seemingly only to appeal visually and in hand has a lot of problems

01:45:05   that we can go on at length again about.

01:45:08   as the Apple battery case absolutely positively looks a little funny, but I think is designed

01:45:14   very practically to be both useful and pretty pleasant to hold.

01:45:20   Yeah, fits wonderfully in the hand and has a lot of design perks that I, you know, that

01:45:26   I've used battery cases on and off for covering shows and going to Disneyland and various

01:45:30   places for years. And this is by far the easiest battery case I've ever had to use, mostly

01:45:37   because I never have to take it out of the case. And even if I do, it's pretty easy with

01:45:42   the slip out. So I know you probably talked about this like six months ago when it came

01:45:48   out in the first place. But as somebody who's only been using it for a couple of weeks,

01:45:51   I'm really kind of thrilled about it.

01:45:53   Yeah, I'm curious how well it's selling because will they keep doing them?

01:45:59   Yeah.

01:46:00   And I feel like if they do, I feel like the schedule will stay the same where if they

01:46:05   come out with new iPhones in September, they're not going to come out with the battery case

01:46:09   until like November because they don't want the PR of Apple shipping a phone that needs

01:46:15   a battery case.

01:46:16   It needs the case. And I wouldn't say for the average user, I don't think the iPhone

01:46:20   does need a battery case. It's just, you know, for people like you and me.

01:46:23   But it looks bad, right?

01:46:24   Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and also R&D and just, you know, spacing all of that out.

01:46:30   But yeah, you don't, you don't want the negative press associated with that. I hope if they

01:46:34   they do release another battery case. They also consider doing colors besides just stark

01:46:39   white and I don't know if it's space gray or whatever they call it. But yeah, exactly.

01:46:44   Whatever whatever slate gray because you have this beautiful rose gold iPhone and I would

01:46:48   love to actually put it in a case that reflects its internal personality. Right now it just

01:46:52   looks like it's in a I don't know a crazy ward. I feel like it's wearing a straight

01:46:56   jacket right now. I think it is a sort of a very stormtrooper look. Yeah, yeah, I see

01:47:01   that actually very much isn't necessarily what everybody wants on

01:47:04   there no exactly it's like now I wish I had a space gray case because then I

01:47:10   could at least call the phone Finn and I would be amused to myself all right let

01:47:14   me take one last break and then we'll go with the stormtrooper theme and talk

01:47:17   about the Star Wars Rogue One trailer our last sponsors brand-new sponsor I've

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01:49:29   All right, so here, Serenity, I'm gonna complain

01:49:32   because you guys did, who was on this podcast?

01:49:35   You guys did like a 90 minute podcast

01:49:37   about a 90 second movie trailer.

01:49:39   - That's not even the first one we've done.

01:49:41   It was me, Sarah Cusa, Dan Morin, and Jason.

01:49:45   That's ridiculous, I know.

01:49:48   We did the same thing for "The Force Awakens."

01:49:50   I think The Force Awakens was like 60 second teaser

01:49:52   and we did at least 90 minutes on it.

01:49:54   - All right, I have kept my mouth shut on Twitter

01:49:57   about this, but I'm gonna come out now.

01:49:59   I did not like the trailer for Rogue One.

01:50:02   - Really?

01:50:03   Okay, so why did you not like the trailer?

01:50:05   I'm curious.

01:50:05   - I thought that it was,

01:50:10   it felt like what my concern ever since they've announced

01:50:13   these Star Wars stories,

01:50:15   and for anybody who's not paying close attention,

01:50:16   just as this is not the next movie in the the new trilogy after The Force Awakens. It's a standalone

01:50:22   movie. It even takes place in a different era. It takes place before, like between the two

01:50:29   older trilogies. So it's like, what is it like five years before Star Wars and New Hope? It's

01:50:34   like when the first Death Star is being built. It's some, yeah, it's sometime, Pablo Hidalgo,

01:50:39   who's the story supervisor at Lucasfilm, is like, it is sometime in the 30 years between the end of

01:50:45   episode three and the start of episode four. And I'm like, great, thanks. That's, that's really

01:50:49   helpful. Uh, I, I just felt like the trailer felt like what I was worried that it would be,

01:50:56   which is like a lesser purposefully, lesser star Wars movie that it just didn't feel like it had

01:51:02   any kind of grand or, or as much, there's one shot of the death star that to me, add some grandeur

01:51:08   to it. But for the most part, it looked more like a generic action, sci-fi movie than a star Wars

01:51:13   movie. And I felt like it was cut way too quick. Like, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, you know,

01:51:19   one second shot, one second shot, one second shot, cut, cut, cut, frenetic, and then it's over.

01:51:25   SONIA DARA-MARTIN: Frenetic is the right, is the right verb for this, is that it does, it does feel

01:51:29   very much, much more energetic than what you think of as traditional Star Wars trailers. Like,

01:51:36   you think about even the Force Awakens trailer, or any of the original trailers, is the long,

01:51:41   sweeping shot of Tatooine right or the the the long shot of of you know Rey and her garb or

01:51:48   I thought like in the force awakens trailer which I thought was a great trailer I the one the shot

01:51:53   that to me made the trailer was the shot on Jakku it's a real long shot of a star destroyer star

01:52:01   destroyer that's crashed in the planet for and seemingly for a long time I had that as my

01:52:08   background on my computer for a long time because it's a beautiful shot.

01:52:11   Yeah, beautiful shot, but it also to me has like this very Star Wars-y in this to it which is,

01:52:17   there's clearly a lot of backstory that you don't know. There's something, you know,

01:52:25   because there's obviously there's a massive stardust story crashed on a desert planet.

01:52:29   Is this something happened? Yeah.

01:52:30   Are we on Tatooine again? Are we somewhere else? You don't know, but there's obviously

01:52:35   something happen. Whereas there's nothing in the Rogue One trailer that makes me wonder,

01:52:39   "Wow, what happened there? There's some kind of crazy backstory here."

01:52:42   Yeah. So I have to ask you, have you watched Star Wars Rebels, the CG cartoon?

01:52:47   Yes. In fact, Jonas and I just finished catching up last night.

01:52:53   The finale? Oh my gosh. All right. Well, we'll save that. I feel like that's way too spoilery.

01:52:57   But um...

01:52:58   Well, is there something you want to say that's not spoilery about?

01:53:01   yes so well sort of pseudo-spoilery. Just more that I when I watched the Rogue One trailer my

01:53:07   first impression was a lot of these scenes seem like exact real world like let me let me take all

01:53:14   of the shots and staging that I've done with Star Wars Rebels and let me put it in a live action

01:53:18   movie like some of those marketplace scenes the scenes where where I think your name is Jin the

01:53:24   the protagonist for Rogue One is like running through and kicking around stormtroopers and I'm

01:53:29   I'm like this this literally feels like a scene with Sabine from Star Wars Rebels where and then

01:53:35   the whole trailer kind of feels like that where rebels rebels and Clone Wars before it to me

01:53:40   aren't really they don't seem focused on the Star Wars grandeur right that's not it these are more

01:53:46   telling like very quick standalone slight not even slice of life stories but slice of Star Wars I

01:53:51   guess where they just kind of drop you right in the middle of the action and they're just like

01:53:55   "All right, go!" There's some stuff, some backstory that's helpful to know, but it's

01:54:00   not really about building, it's not about telling the grand Joseph Campbell story, it's

01:54:06   about "Here, here's this specific action and this specific thing that's happening to these

01:54:10   people who happen to exist in this larger world." And that's kind of the vibe that I

01:54:17   got from the Rogue One trailer. It jumps you right into the fact where it's like, you either

01:54:23   know where this is and what's happening and you know what the AT-ATs are and you know

01:54:29   what that lady with short red hair is and what her overwhelming significance is to the greater

01:54:34   Star Wars universe or you don't. And I don't know, I understand where you're coming from.

01:54:42   It doesn't have the grandeur of a Star Wars trailer or even feel so much like your traditional

01:54:50   Star Wars movie. It's a very gritty, sort of down in the dirt version of it.

01:54:55   CB And I also feel like it just doesn't,

01:54:58   I don't know, to me like a teaser trailer is supposed to show you less but make it more,

01:55:06   I don't know. I don't, I just feel like that cut cut cut style, and I don't think that the movie

01:55:12   is going to be like that. I certainly hope not. But I don't know. I feel like, like it,

01:55:18   like for a first teaser, I'd rather just have it be one cool shot for the whole teaser and that's it.

01:55:24   And then as opposed to they kind of went the opposite way and tried to show like a ton of stuff.

01:55:29   Yeah, they should. So this is this is something that's interesting to me in that based this I

01:55:34   mean, this is the first visual we've really seen of Rogue One in about a year because last year we

01:55:39   saw that that teaser one sheet of like them, the the group standing together. And based on everything

01:55:48   I've read about Rogue One up until the point where the teaser trailer was released, my inclination

01:55:55   was this was going to be Ocean's Eleven in Star Wars, where it was supposed to be a heist movie,

01:56:01   right? Where it's basically like she gets the team together and they build up everybody and then they

01:56:06   go in and they might have to go undercover. And it's not necessarily like jokey Ocean's Eleven,

01:56:10   but it's the same kind of beat and style. And then this teaser trailer comes out and the teaser

01:56:16   trailer is almost the exact opposite of what I would expect from a heist movie.

01:56:23   Like you think about teaser trailers for heist movies, right? You think about even any of the

01:56:28   Mission Impossible trailers where if I look carefully at the trailer, you can kind of spot

01:56:35   scenes where it's like, "Oh, this is from the place where they're getting the gang together,

01:56:39   and here's where they probably have to go undercover and are running from Imperials."

01:56:44   Yeah, here's where they're breaking into the unbreakable safe.

01:56:46   Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's told in such a different way. And I'm curious about that. I'm

01:56:53   curious if it actually is a heist movie and they're just, right now the tease is really,

01:56:58   we're just teasing you about our main character and it's not even so much about the movie.

01:57:03   And that's part of the reason of the cut, cut, cut, cut is that our main character is,

01:57:08   you know, our protagonists is a fast paced like, I'm gonna, you know, either get into scrapes and

01:57:15   be around explosions and end up in a cross between an Inquisitor's uniform and a TIE fighter

01:57:21   outfit at some point. I don't know, it's interesting to me what kind of story they're

01:57:28   trying to tell. And also I have lots of questions about the main character herself and how these

01:57:34   standalone stories are supposed to fit into the greater Star Wars universe because I've had

01:57:39   people argue on both sides, right? I've had people argue, "Oh, well these are supposed to be entirely

01:57:45   separate and they're really more like, you know, dives into backstory and they don't involve the

01:57:49   main plot at all." But then I look at the other standalone stories they have, you know, slotted

01:57:56   and they've got the Young Han Solo movie. And I'm like, oh, I know, I know, I know. But my thought

01:58:03   is, well, if they're going to tell these standalone stories that may or may not revolve around

01:58:10   major characters, what's to say that whatever happens in this movie, no, it may not directly

01:58:16   be an installment of the Force Awakens trilogy, but I'm not entirely unconvinced that there's

01:58:24   stuff that's going to happen in this movie that's going to be very important in Episode

01:58:29   8 and episode 9. Not necessarily on a grand scale, but you know, stuff, there's all kinds

01:58:35   of potential theories there and I feel like we would take three hours trying to discuss

01:58:38   them all because we took two hours on incomparable.

01:58:41   I love the idea of calling it like Ocean's Eleven in the Star Wars universe is exactly,

01:58:46   if that's what it turns out being, even in some small, just in a general direction, that

01:58:50   would make me very happy, I think. The trailer certainly doesn't suggest that. The trailer

01:58:54   makes it seem like it's, and I don't know that, I hope it's not, I just think, I just

01:59:00   worry that there is a sort of, that the trailer is, the teaser that we got is the result of

01:59:08   a dysfunctional executive leadership at the new Lucasfilm and Disney. That it's less about

01:59:18   making a super awesome trailer that takes Star Wars in the new direction and more about,

01:59:23   wait, we just made this great hit movie,

01:59:26   let's just make the most generic Star Wars trailer we could

01:59:29   out of the footage we have because we, you know,

01:59:32   we don't wanna take any risks at all.

01:59:34   That I guess is to me what I found

01:59:38   a little disappointing in this,

01:59:40   is that to me it didn't seem like they took any risks at all

01:59:43   other than the, I will admit,

01:59:45   although to me it only continues

01:59:49   a direction they started with, "The Force Awakens,"

01:59:51   where clearly the protagonist is a woman and not a man,

01:59:54   which is a significant change from traditional action movies

01:59:58   and from the previous Star Wars movies.

02:00:01   But I would almost say that that's,

02:00:04   after "The Force Awakens," that's a lot less,

02:00:07   they don't even get as much credit for the risk

02:00:09   because I feel like that risk was already taken

02:00:11   in "The Force Awakens."

02:00:13   - Well, they're continuing the story.

02:00:15   I have a lot of faith in Kathleen Kennedy

02:00:18   just as the head of Lucasfilm and her ability to put together a good team.

02:00:22   But there is a minor worry on my part about what Rogue One is going to look like.

02:00:27   Because we think about traditional Star Wars trailers and traditional Star Wars movies,

02:00:31   right?

02:00:32   Your first trailer usually comes about a year out.

02:00:35   I would have expected to see the teaser attached to The Force Awakens, right?

02:00:39   Or maybe even not on launch, but like six weeks into The Force Awakens, come see it

02:00:43   again and now the Rogue One teaser will be attached, right?

02:00:46   right? Damn they should hire you Sredity that's genius that would have gotten back.

02:00:51   It's good marketing right? I would go a second time just to see the 30 second,

02:00:54   60 second spot but if you think about traditional like medium budget movies a trailer a first teaser

02:01:03   six months out is not an unusual thing but for a Star Wars movie to not have a teaser until six

02:01:09   months out is it's almost crazy it's like this is your first trailer and you're still probably

02:01:14   gonna have like another teaser and a couple full length trailers. It's like you're getting really

02:01:19   close to the wire and I'm not sure if that's intentional on their part that they don't want

02:01:23   to take they don't want to pull too much focus away from the big the big movies the trilogy

02:01:28   movies or whether there were some issues with Rogue One where they had to do some you know some

02:01:34   post-production story editing or things like that. I've been a little worried hearing like with the

02:01:39   radio silence around it that it is it was like a story problem but I don't know I really don't like

02:01:45   that's that's the that's the thing right now is we have this one trailer and the original description

02:01:51   of Rogue One and that one sheet and that's all we know about this movie and I I want to be

02:01:56   tentatively excited because I the potential even if the trailer you know the trailer I think is

02:02:02   some somewhat Star Wars and somewhat very not Star Wars in that the the visuals are all right to me

02:02:08   The quick cutting may not be your style and it's not quite Star Wars' style either, but the visuals

02:02:14   look great. The brief moment of characterization that we have from basically Jyn and Mon Mothma

02:02:20   are really the only people who get more than a line or two in this and Forest Whitaker's crazy

02:02:28   character with the breathing apparatus. I'm so curious! Well, lots of desert planets,

02:02:37   Jon. I feel like there's probably some issues with health there.

02:02:41   JONATHAN They're like, "They don't show it,

02:02:42   but everybody in the Star Wars universe smokes."

02:02:44   JILLIAN Yeah, exactly.

02:02:45   JONATHAN They just don't show it on screen.

02:02:46   JILLIAN That's how you can deal with the hazards of space,

02:02:49   vaping. Oh, God. I don't know. Jyn is really interesting to me as a character. I talked about

02:02:57   it a little bit on the Incomparable podcast, but I'm really curious if they're going to

02:03:03   tie her into the main story. Does she die before episode four? Because she's obviously not in the

02:03:09   Rebels hangar. She's not around. And I don't know if you read any of the extended universe books,

02:03:16   but one of my thoughts was, well, are they going to do a Mara Jade style thing where this basically

02:03:22   one of the prominent badass lady characters in the extended universe books was a character who

02:03:29   was kind of very gray for a long time and the possibility of telling a story like a Star Wars

02:03:35   story that's not light side and dark side that is like that centers around a gray character that

02:03:42   that part really excites me and that's kind of what the trailer seemed to be flirting with was

02:03:47   the idea of like yeah we're not we're not going to tell us a story about a grand arc and a Joseph

02:03:53   Campbell story we're going to tell a story about like the people who have to make the hard decisions

02:03:57   who aren't, you know, who don't always get to stand on the side of light or the side of dark.

02:04:01   And I don't know, it's, I'm excited. I see where you're hesitant and I see where you're concerned,

02:04:09   but I'm also, I'm still kind of like, there are a lot of potential good things here.

02:04:13   CB; It doesn't make me pessimist, it makes me a little bit more pessimistic than it was,

02:04:18   but I was already kind of pessimistic about the movie. But the thing that,

02:04:22   it's just disappointing because to me it wasn't a great trailer. To me a great trailer makes me

02:04:27   you simply want to say, I want to see that movie today.

02:04:29   And Rogue One trailer did not do that for me at all.

02:04:32   It just kind of gave me a, eh, I can wait.

02:04:35   - Yeah, see I really liked the trailer.

02:04:37   - All right, all right, well that's why, you know,

02:04:39   it's good to have differences.

02:04:40   - Exactly, exactly, exactly.

02:04:42   Yeah, I feel like you're allowed to not like the trailer

02:04:44   and I'm allowed to like the trailer.

02:04:45   And I hope that the first real trailer

02:04:48   is a little bit less cut cut cutty,

02:04:51   in part because, you know,

02:04:53   there's a lot of really pretty scenes

02:04:56   that looked like they were being shot

02:04:57   in the half a second that we got.

02:04:59   - Did you think it was weird

02:05:00   that the Death Star seemed fully constructed?

02:05:02   I mean, they didn't show it in a long shot.

02:05:06   They only showed like--

02:05:07   - They showed that like the dish being put in.

02:05:10   - So who knows, maybe if you pull back more, it's, you know.

02:05:13   - Yeah, there might still be like bits and pieces.

02:05:15   We've seen in progress Death Stars before.

02:05:16   - Right. (laughs)

02:05:18   - Well, that makes me wonder how close are we

02:05:20   to A New Hope, right?

02:05:22   Because in A New Hope, the Death Star,

02:05:24   like the Death Star was close to fully operational.

02:05:27   It was flying between planets, it was shooting things.

02:05:29   So it may have just been one of those things

02:05:32   where everything was built, say, for the firing dish,

02:05:36   or maybe they have to replace the firing dish.

02:05:38   I don't know, there's so many opportunities for antics.

02:05:41   - All right, anything else you wanna talk about this week?

02:05:45   - You know what, no.

02:05:48   Yeah, I feel like we've covered good things.

02:05:51   Oh, I actually I saw speaking of Star Wars to close it out on Star Wars. I I watched the force awakens

02:05:58   the behind the scenes documentary that was included with the

02:06:02   With the iTunes extras because of course force awakens is on DVD blu-ray iTunes, etc

02:06:08   Everywhere in the US and I think the UK gets it later this week

02:06:11   And that was really awesome

02:06:14   It's just a good good documentary overall

02:06:17   but the highlight of it is they show they have a scene of like, oh, you know Harrison Ford is entering our model of the Millennium Falcon

02:06:24   for the first time and they they in the documentary they they clip or they cut between

02:06:31   Finished clips of the movie and then the behind the scenes of when this is all happening

02:06:34   and there's just this really nice moment where you start on the the actual scene of Han like walking into the

02:06:41   the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon and doing the smile and the self-satisfied like, "We're finally here!"

02:06:47   And then you cut to the behind the scenes and you see him out of frame.

02:06:51   He's pulled two tiny little dice from his pocket and he hangs them up on one of the like higher

02:06:58   switches in the Millennium Falcon's cockpit.

02:07:01   It's just like not big fuzzy dice like miniature versions of tiny fuzzy dice and he hangs them and then he sits down and smiles

02:07:07   And I'm just like, this is, that's, that's the true heart of Star Wars right there.

02:07:12   - I believe that there were tiny little non-fuzzy dice in the New Hope.

02:07:18   I think that's a call back to that.

02:07:20   - Exactly. I think he's been carrying around those tiny fuzzy dice for like 40 years

02:07:25   and just brought it back.

02:07:27   - All right. I have not watched it on home video yet. I've been saving it.

02:07:32   We still have a lot of contention in our household over what happens to Han Solo.

02:07:37   Oh boy. Yeah, I I understand that that was very

02:07:41   we watched it last night for for Rick's birthday, and it was definitely a

02:07:47   It was definitely a contentious scene. Even the dogs don't like it. Hmm. Oh

02:07:52   Yeah, you did the thing where you watched with bb-8 - right I did I did I watched I watched bits and pieces with the with it

02:08:00   It's it that's that droid gets so chatty. It's it's really funny to do it

02:08:05   Not as a like, I wouldn't suggest doing it if you really want to pay attention to the movie,

02:08:09   but if you want to get a kick at while having it on in the background,

02:08:13   BB-8 will talk pretty much non-stop about any scene that has him in it,

02:08:17   any scene that has Poe Dameron in it, or anytime the characters make what

02:08:21   BB-8 thinks is a stupid decision. You'll hear, "No, no, no, no," and it'll shake his little head.

02:08:28   It's super cute.

02:08:28   Trenton Larkin It's a pretty cool feature. So anyway,

02:08:30   the long story short is if you have that little BB-8 toy that you can drive with your

02:08:34   with your iPhone. If you watch the movie with that toy, the BB-8 watches along with you

02:08:41   and reacts.

02:08:42   It's super cute. You have to have the BB-8 in its base because of battery and you have

02:08:46   to have your phone plugged in and the app open, which is like the dumb part, but still

02:08:51   pretty fun.

02:08:52   Yeah. All right. Thank you, Serenity. People can find all the Serenity they want on Twitter.

02:08:59   What's your Twitter handle? I always forget.

02:09:01   - Saturn, S-E-T-T-E-R-N.

02:09:03   - S-E-T-T-E-R-N.

02:09:05   - Weird random Swedish word.

02:09:07   - And your work at iMore.com.

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02:09:23   Talk to you soon.

02:09:25   - Yeah, thanks very much for having me.