The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03 ◼   ► A couple of weeks ago, a longtime sponsor of the show

00:00:09 ◼   ► Casper, the people who sell mattresses, they had a spot.

00:00:12 ◼   ► And when I read their URL, I said that their domain name

00:00:16 ◼   ► was caspersleep.com, which is what it used to be,

00:00:20 ◼   ► and which in fact still does redirect.

00:00:23 ◼   ► But their new URL is casper.com.

00:00:26 ◼   ► When I did that, they sent a nice little note,

00:00:29 ◼   ► and it was very friendly and it was like,

00:00:30 ◼   ► hey, you know, that used to be our URL,

00:00:32 ◼   ► but we sprung for just playing casper.com

00:00:35 ◼   ► and the next time we have a spot run,

00:00:38 ◼   ► you know, please use that one instead.

00:00:40 ◼   ► And last week they had another spot in the show

00:00:45 ◼   ► and like a dummy, I once again said on the air,

00:00:49 ◼   ► go to caspersleep.com/talkshow.

00:00:52 ◼   ► And they sent me a very nice email.

00:00:55 ◼   ► That was so nice that I thought I should,

00:00:58 ◼   ► right here at the front of the show, just put a little insert here and just tell you

00:01:00 ◼   ► if you're in the market for a mattress and you want to go there, go to casper.com

00:01:07 ◼   ► c-a-s-p-e-r/talkshow, casper.com/talkshow. My thanks to them for their patience with me and

00:01:19 ◼   ► now on with the show.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Joanna, how are you? It's been a while, I think.

00:01:29 ◼   ► It has been a while. But you hear no sirens. And no dog. Unlike my last appearance on this show.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Is that the last appearance? I think so. Yes, it was definitely the sirens. Definitely very,

00:01:44 ◼   ► very angry, angry, angry listeners about the sirens.

00:01:47 ◼   ► It has. Yeah. It has been a very Joanna Stern year in technology. Don't you think?

00:01:56 ◼   ► Yeah, just all the time. They released me like 10 times. Well, but stern s, I what I mean by that

00:02:04 ◼   ► is that to me, you are one of the most obsessed in our racket with, you know, laptop keyboards and

00:02:15 ◼   ► tablets and you know, where are portable computers going? And it's been what a crazy year, right?

00:02:26 ◼   ► - Right.

00:02:27 ◼   ► - Insane, and actually just had a conversation

00:02:29 ◼   ► with my editor about my column next week.

00:02:31 ◼   ► I think I've actually ditched the entire idea

00:02:33 ◼   ► 'cause it's too hard.

00:02:35 ◼   ► I hate to say that I'm ditching something

00:02:36 ◼   ► 'cause it's too hard, but like,

00:02:38 ◼   ► trying to tell someone what to buy right now,

00:02:42 ◼   ► it's just, it's too hard.

00:02:44 ◼   ► It's just too hard. - Maybe,

00:02:47 ◼   ► maybe that's the angle to take though,

00:02:48 ◼   ► is to talk about how you can't really say

00:02:50 ◼   ► here's what you should buy because it's too hard.

00:02:53 ◼   ► - It really is too hard.

00:02:55 ◼   ► Well, I don't know, I should probably not talk about

00:02:57 ◼   ► what my idea was 'cause someone listening

00:02:59 ◼   ► will just do it better than me.

00:03:00 ◼   ► But my idea was I wanted to make a form or a chart

00:03:05 ◼   ► where it's like you just go in, you tell it,

00:03:09 ◼   ► this is what I want, this is what I want the computer to do,

00:03:11 ◼   ► this is how I use my computer,

00:03:13 ◼   ► this is the operating system I want,

00:03:15 ◼   ► and then it tells you what to get.

00:03:16 ◼   ► But making that's really, really hard.

00:03:20 ◼   ► - The matrix has gotten very complicated.

00:03:23 ◼   ► So you could have been on it

00:03:24 ◼   ► and we've been trying to work out a time

00:03:27 ◼   ► it works for you to be on the show.

00:03:29 ◼   ► At any point in the last two or three months

00:03:32 ◼   ► to talk about the iPad Pro

00:03:33 ◼   ► or to talk about the Surface Book

00:03:37 ◼   ► and the Surface Pro 4 and all the keyboards and et cetera.

00:03:41 ◼   ► But now we can just talk about them all at once.

00:03:43 ◼   ► - And yeah, and there was an iPhone before that.

00:03:46 ◼   ► - Right. - And then,

00:03:48 ◼   ► what have I been doing with myself?

00:03:49 ◼   ► There's just been a lot of reviews, a lot of products.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Good products, some not so good, but really interesting.

00:03:56 ◼   ► - I saw-- - That's how I'm gonna

00:03:58 ◼   ► summarize this year.

00:04:00 ◼   ► - I saw a thing, and I didn't see the breakdown,

00:04:02 ◼   ► maybe you did, but I saw a thing where every year

00:04:05 ◼   ► there's the, with the Black Friday

00:04:08 ◼   ► and the whole opening of the holiday shopping season,

00:04:11 ◼   ► that 64% of the online purchases over the weekend

00:04:16 ◼   ► were done on a mobile device.

00:04:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I saw that too. - Which is kind of astounding.

00:04:24 ◼   ► The thing I don't know is what are they calling

00:04:26 ◼   ► a mobile device?

00:04:28 ◼   ► Does that include tablets or is that, is it only phones?

00:04:32 ◼   ► - Don't they usually break down by operating system?

00:04:35 ◼   ► - I guess so. - Like how they look at it.

00:04:36 ◼   ► - But isn't that, like, I've been thinking about this

00:04:39 ◼   ► for years, but I feel like part of what makes this year,

00:04:42 ◼   ► what 2015's so interesting is that doing it

00:04:45 ◼   ► by operating system really doesn't make sense anymore.

00:04:48 ◼   ► - True, very true.

00:04:50 ◼   ► I mean, Windows, like, right, someone could be on their Windows phone, and they're actually

00:04:55 ◼   ► on or they it says Windows 10. And they could be on like a 50 foot desktop. Right. And conversely,

00:05:03 ◼   ► does that right and conversely, the the on the Apple side, the iPad Pro is going to qualify

00:05:13 ◼   ► by OS as a mobile device, but it's and by some definition, it is certainly mobile where

00:05:19 ◼   ► where you're certainly using it without any,

00:05:22 ◼   ► you're not connected to power or anything like that,

00:05:25 ◼   ► you don't have to be.

00:05:26 ◼   ► But it's meant to be used on a desk of some sort,

00:05:32 ◼   ► or at least on your lap, it's not like a handheld device.

00:05:35 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:05:36 ◼   ► I've been using mine more and more in bed.

00:05:39 ◼   ► We've pretty much watched all of Jane the Virgin

00:05:47 ◼   ► on the iPad Pro.

00:05:49 ◼   ► It's really, really interesting as a TV.

00:05:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, and the last two trips that I've taken,

00:05:56 ◼   ► I took my air, I have this problem

00:05:59 ◼   ► where I just have to take the air, it makes me feel better.

00:06:01 ◼   ► But I pretty much only used the Pro.

00:06:03 ◼   ► That's the difference between when you review something

00:06:07 ◼   ► for a week and then you really start using it.

00:06:10 ◼   ► As a travel device, it's really good.

00:06:14 ◼   ► 'Cause as much as it gets kinda crazy

00:06:19 ◼   ► you're just like kind of it is the top of the laptop screen like just taking

00:06:23 ◼   ► that off and having the screen without the keyboard to watch Netflix is is huge

00:06:27 ◼   ► yeah and the screen is like 90 times better than my my air so alright let's

00:06:34 ◼   ► keep going with it let's keep going with talking about the iPad Pro and we'll get

00:06:38 ◼   ► to the other devices in due time I have found and it's one of the little things

00:06:45 ◼   ► that it really makes a huge difference between the, and I know you mentioned

00:06:50 ◼   ► this in your iPad Pro review for the for the journal, if you just look at the

00:06:55 ◼   ► numbers 9.7 inch for the standard iPad size to 12 point whatever inches this

00:07:02 ◼   ► one is, it doesn't sound like a lot for some reason in my brain, but in practice

00:07:06 ◼   ► it's a tremendous difference. Yeah it's giant. And one of the things, and I don't

00:07:11 ◼   ► I don't think I, it's like you just said,

00:07:14 ◼   ► it's sometimes it's so hard in one week,

00:07:16 ◼   ► the one week you get between when you get a review unit

00:07:19 ◼   ► and when the reviews come out,

00:07:20 ◼   ► it's hard to cover all the bases.

00:07:21 ◼   ► But, and I've heard this from a lot of people who,

00:07:26 ◼   ► readers of "Daring Fireball" that it's a huge, huge deal

00:07:30 ◼   ► for anybody who deals with actual documents.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Like, I know lawyers, for example,

00:07:35 ◼   ► everything they do is like eight and a half by 11

00:07:37 ◼   ► pieces of paper.

00:07:38 ◼   ► And I've also heard from some people in education

00:07:42 ◼   ► that for teachers, it's a huge deal.

00:07:45 ◼   ► If you have students submitting work

00:07:48 ◼   ► in any kind of word processing document where it's a page,

00:07:51 ◼   ► now they can read them right there on the iPad

00:07:55 ◼   ► and it's not tiny.

00:07:56 ◼   ► It's like the size it's supposed to be.

00:07:58 ◼   ► And what I've done,

00:07:59 ◼   ► I haven't been into comic books in years,

00:08:01 ◼   ► but I started reading comic books on it

00:08:05 ◼   ► and it's all the difference in the world.

00:08:08 ◼   ► I can, one of the reasons I never really got into reading comic books on iPads before is

00:08:12 ◼   ► it was just too small.

00:08:14 ◼   ► And now, I saw it, Andy and Atko even tweeted a picture of it.

00:08:18 ◼   ► It's just like side by side with like an actual comic book.

00:08:21 ◼   ► It's like the actual size.

00:08:23 ◼   ► It's absolutely standard size for a comic book.

00:08:26 ◼   ► But it, and TV I think is a similar type thing where it, like, laying in bed or sitting on

00:08:33 ◼   ► a chair somewhere and just having it right in front of you, it fills your field of vision

00:08:38 ◼   ► in a way that the iPad didn't before.

00:08:41 ◼   ► Yeah, and definitely for sharing a viewing experience, it's great. That's where I did

00:08:48 ◼   ► feel like the iPad would be small, is like if you're watching a video with somebody,

00:08:54 ◼   ► especially on an airplane when you're both trying to watch the iPad and you've got the

00:08:57 ◼   ► middle seat bar between you and, you know, it's just been great for watching Netflix

00:09:06 ◼   ► together.

00:09:07 ◼   ► So that should be their next ad.

00:09:09 ◼   ► It should just be like a shot of two people watching Netflix on the iPad and really close

00:09:15 ◼   ► together.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Maybe they're not going to hire me for marketing.

00:09:20 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:09:21 ◼   ► >> It seems like a perfect ad.

00:09:23 ◼   ► It does.

00:09:24 ◼   ► Didn't they have one like that with music?

00:09:26 ◼   ► I seem to recall that there was an Apple ad that involved some sort of romantic moment

00:09:33 ◼   ► where it was, I don't know, like teenagers, but they were sharing their headphones, you

00:09:38 ◼   ► know, their earbuds.

00:09:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:40 ◼   ► And no, and the tagline is Netflix and chill.

00:09:43 ◼   ► Well, I don't think Apple's gonna put Netflix and chill in there.

00:09:46 ◼   ► I think that's what Apple's gonna do.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Just put it right across the center of the ad.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Although I guess they sort of have a non contentious relationship with Netflix, so who knows?

00:10:00 ◼   ► Only semi-competitive.

00:10:01 ◼   ► This is such a good ad.

00:10:04 ◼   ► But maybe it's also a better ad for the smaller iPads, because if that's what you're really

00:10:08 ◼   ► after, you're watching a movie and you're trying to get closer, you probably want the

00:10:12 ◼   ► smaller iPad so you can get closer together.

00:10:16 ◼   ► I've gone too far with this.

00:10:18 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:10:21 ◼   ► So you still, but you still take your MacBook Air

00:10:26 ◼   ► everywhere you go.

00:10:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean,

00:10:30 ◼   ► God, my air is really a piece of shit now too.

00:10:32 ◼   ► I'm like looking at it and there's crumbs stuck in the,

00:10:36 ◼   ► between the bezel, like on the,

00:10:37 ◼   ► right underneath the O in the MacBook.

00:10:41 ◼   ► The first O, not the second.

00:10:42 ◼   ► There's just like, I think it's a piece of bread.

00:10:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's really, I went to Potbelly for lunch,

00:10:50 ◼   ► so it's probably whole wheat bread.

00:10:53 ◼   ► Anyway, yes, I take it because I don't know why I take it.

00:10:59 ◼   ► I mean, there are certain apps that I use,

00:11:01 ◼   ► there really are not even some certain apps.

00:11:03 ◼   ► Photoshop I use during the day.

00:11:05 ◼   ► Sometimes I do some video editing and stuff like that.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I think it mostly comes down to the multitasking.

00:11:12 ◼   ► I think, you know, a reader asked me today on Twitter,

00:11:17 ◼   ► he was trying to decide between the iPad Pro and the MacBook Air.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And I really think it just comes down to two things.

00:11:24 ◼   ► It's not power.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I mean, it's certainly not power.

00:11:28 ◼   ► It's not screen, cuz the Pro kills it on screen and all these other things.

00:11:33 ◼   ► I think it comes down to peripherals and multitasking.

00:11:35 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:11:39 ◼   ► Is there something I'm missing?

00:11:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I think that covers it.

00:11:46 ◼   ► Well, and then the only other thing I can think of

00:11:49 ◼   ► that's a big ticket, like this might be the primary reason

00:11:53 ◼   ► that you decide would be are there apps that only exist

00:11:58 ◼   ► on one or the other OS?

00:12:01 ◼   ► - Right.

00:12:01 ◼   ► - And there are some that are many, in fact,

00:12:06 ◼   ► that exist on both.

00:12:07 ◼   ► There's all sorts of writing apps, for example,

00:12:09 ◼   ► that have clients for both platforms,

00:12:14 ◼   ► so you don't have to decide.

00:12:16 ◼   ► There are other things that are either Mac only,

00:12:19 ◼   ► or now there's a lot of apps that are iPad only.

00:12:22 ◼   ► So if you feel like you need one of those,

00:12:26 ◼   ► then your decision's made for you.

00:12:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, the file system is another really big one.

00:12:31 ◼   ► I guess that would be the third big thing,

00:12:33 ◼   ► and I kinda consider that under multitasking,

00:12:35 ◼   ► which is not part of it,

00:12:36 ◼   ► But I just deal with lots of different files and here,

00:12:40 ◼   ► people send Word documents unfortunately, and they're marked up.

00:12:44 ◼   ► And you gotta download them, and you gotta look at them, and

00:12:46 ◼   ► then you gotta reattach them.

00:12:47 ◼   ► And that's still a place where the iPad is just not,

00:12:50 ◼   ► in trying to make it simpler, sometimes it's just really hard.

00:12:55 ◼   ► I actually wrote about it in the review, or I don't know if the whole thing came

00:12:58 ◼   ► in, but I was just trying to get a PDF from one app to another.

00:13:04 ◼   ► and just can't really do it, right?

00:13:06 ◼   ► There's no central file to put something in.

00:13:10 ◼   ► You can put it in iCloud Drive,

00:13:12 ◼   ► but yeah, I just don't like to go there.

00:13:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and not every app supports it,

00:13:17 ◼   ► depends where you, you know.

00:13:19 ◼   ► - Right. - And it's the same

00:13:20 ◼   ► with Dropbox, where there are definitely some apps

00:13:22 ◼   ► that you can, you know, use app A for this

00:13:26 ◼   ► and send a thing from app B by putting it in your Dropbox,

00:13:29 ◼   ► and both apps have Dropbox integration,

00:13:31 ◼   ► But you really, you can't count on it across all apps.

00:13:35 ◼   ► - Right, and you have to like hope that the share system

00:13:38 ◼   ► works well in that app to then bring it to the other app.

00:13:41 ◼   ► They were Adobe apps that I was using.

00:13:46 ◼   ► - Whereas on the Mac, you would be shocked.

00:13:51 ◼   ► I would be, and in fact, it would instantly make me,

00:13:54 ◼   ► any app that I use on a regular basis,

00:13:56 ◼   ► what I'm about to say would work.

00:13:58 ◼   ► And if I was trying a new app and this didn't work,

00:14:02 ◼   ► it would almost certainly make me think this app is a piece of junk

00:14:05 ◼   ► and I'm not even going to spend any more time in it, which

00:14:08 ◼   ► is if I'm in a context where I want to add a JPEG, it doesn't matter.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Is it an email attachment?

00:14:15 ◼   ► I just want to send it to you.

00:14:16 ◼   ► I'm using a chat app.

00:14:17 ◼   ► I want to send you this picture.

00:14:19 ◼   ► I want to add it to a document where I know the document can--

00:14:22 ◼   ► you can add images to the document.

00:14:24 ◼   ► I would just take it from the finder where I see the image

00:14:28 ◼   ► and drag it over and drop it in.

00:14:30 ◼   ► And it works everywhere.

00:14:32 ◼   ► And it's worked like that since, I don't know, 1984,

00:14:36 ◼   ► where you just drag stuff where you want it to go.

00:14:39 ◼   ► And it's still crazy to me.

00:14:42 ◼   ► And it's one of those things where I feel like

00:14:43 ◼   ► I'm speaking a second language

00:14:46 ◼   ► when I'm trying to work in iOS,

00:14:48 ◼   ► which is that drag and drop isn't really even a thing there.

00:14:52 ◼   ► - Right, yeah, no, I mean, like on Tuesdays,

00:14:55 ◼   ► which is like my big file column video day,

00:14:58 ◼   ► My entire desktop is a mess and it's like my worst nightmare when I go to someone's

00:15:03 ◼   ► computer and see like just billions of files all over their desktop.

00:15:07 ◼   ► And then I always clean it up, I always clean it up Tuesday night.

00:15:11 ◼   ► But the reason that is, is just like it's the easy, you know, I put something there,

00:15:15 ◼   ► then I drag it to Dropbox and I send it to my video editor.

00:15:18 ◼   ► I pull down one file, I edit it from a print editor, I then send it right back, attach

00:15:25 ◼   ► to put it into Gmail, drag it into Gmail.

00:15:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think it's things like that,

00:15:32 ◼   ► those sort of like, and I hate to say

00:15:34 ◼   ► 'cause I think those are the things that make me old.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Like I worry that these are the things

00:15:40 ◼   ► that I'm gonna be that old person that's like,

00:15:42 ◼   ► well, this is why I can't recommend this

00:15:45 ◼   ► because it doesn't have a USB port,

00:15:48 ◼   ► or something like that where I feel like,

00:15:51 ◼   ► I feel old when I say these things,

00:15:53 ◼   ► but you get in these routines of how you work.

00:15:55 ◼   ► - I feel the exact same way

00:15:58 ◼   ► where I don't want to be curmudgeonly that way.

00:16:02 ◼   ► And I see it from the feedback I get from readers

00:16:06 ◼   ► where some of them are, I don't wanna say angry,

00:16:10 ◼   ► but they seem to be frustrated with the whole,

00:16:13 ◼   ► hey, maybe you can, you know,

00:16:15 ◼   ► for some people you might be able

00:16:16 ◼   ► to really just work on an iPad Pro.

00:16:19 ◼   ► And they reject it and they're like,

00:16:20 ◼   ► and they say, "How can you work if you can't do XYZ?"

00:16:25 ◼   ► And what I see them doing is they're projecting,

00:16:29 ◼   ► "I can't work with XYZ."

00:16:31 ◼   ► And I actually believe them.

00:16:32 ◼   ► I believe them that this is important.

00:16:35 ◼   ► And there are definitely some tasks

00:16:37 ◼   ► where you really want to be able to access,

00:16:40 ◼   ► have something like the Finder,

00:16:41 ◼   ► where you can have just an arbitrary list of files

00:16:44 ◼   ► of any type and just drag them.

00:16:47 ◼   ► But you're crazy if you don't think

00:16:50 ◼   ► that there's a lot of people who don't need that,

00:16:52 ◼   ► whose workflow doesn't involve files

00:16:55 ◼   ► and the file system at all.

00:16:57 ◼   ► - And I think that's where I see like,

00:16:58 ◼   ► there are some days where I don't need that.

00:17:02 ◼   ► And you know, that's what a majority of users,

00:17:06 ◼   ► or I can't say percentages, but many people, like you said,

00:17:10 ◼   ► don't need some of these things.

00:17:12 ◼   ► And that's where I think, you know,

00:17:14 ◼   ► and I think I go back a little bit

00:17:16 ◼   ► into what I wrote in my pro review.

00:17:19 ◼   ► It certainly feels right now it's a niche product.

00:17:23 ◼   ► Maybe it isn't.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Maybe it really does have more appeal at this point

00:17:29 ◼   ► than I think, I don't know,

00:17:31 ◼   ► I didn't even get specific on it,

00:17:32 ◼   ► but maybe it has much more appeal than I thought right now,

00:17:36 ◼   ► 'cause more and more people ask me about it,

00:17:38 ◼   ► and when I'm sort of trying to guide them

00:17:40 ◼   ► between getting a laptop and the Pro,

00:17:41 ◼   ► it ends up saying, yeah, the Pro is actually gonna be

00:17:45 ◼   ► perfectly great for what you need,

00:17:47 ◼   ► and oh, you don't have an iPad,

00:17:48 ◼   ► or you haven't updated your iPad in years,

00:17:50 ◼   ► yeah, go for it.

00:17:51 ◼   ► Yeah, so I don't know.

00:17:56 ◼   ► I think I'm just really interested

00:17:59 ◼   ► in what Apple is gonna be able to do with the software

00:18:01 ◼   ► to make it closer to what some people want

00:18:06 ◼   ► as a laptop experience.

00:18:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you and I highlighted that sentence.

00:18:12 ◼   ► I don't have it in front of me right now,

00:18:13 ◼   ► but in your review, but more or less,

00:18:14 ◼   ► and you know, it's not a unique observation,

00:18:17 ◼   ► but I thought you said it very well,

00:18:19 ◼   ► but something more or less along the lines of

00:18:21 ◼   ► comparing it to the Surface,

00:18:23 ◼   ► certainly the Surface Pros from Microsoft,

00:18:28 ◼   ► the Surface Pros are saddled with

00:18:33 ◼   ► the overly complex Windows 10,

00:18:36 ◼   ► and the iPad Pro is saddled with

00:18:40 ◼   ► what is still clearly a phone operating system.

00:18:46 ◼   ► And so they're approaching, both companies are approaching a,

00:18:51 ◼   ► they're trying to get to the same place, but Microsoft is going,

00:18:55 ◼   ► is approaching it with a more complex legacy operating system.

00:19:00 ◼   ► And Apple's approaching it with an overly simplistic, um,

00:19:06 ◼   ► meant for a little four or five inch, three, four,

00:19:09 ◼   ► five inch device operating system.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Right. And I think that's like,

00:19:13 ◼   ► what's going to be fascinating to watch over the next couple of years is like,

00:19:16 ◼   ► how do they both get there?

00:19:18 ◼   ► Like one's gotta add, one's gotta like,

00:19:20 ◼   ► you know, it's like one's gotta pick up pieces on the root

00:19:23 ◼   ► and the other's gotta somehow dump them, hopefully.

00:19:28 ◼   ► I don't know what Microsoft's plan is

00:19:30 ◼   ► with a lot of the bloat that's in Windows.

00:19:32 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:19:34 ◼   ► - And it's, I totally appreciate

00:19:37 ◼   ► that it is an incredibly hard problem

00:19:38 ◼   ► for both companies to solve.

00:19:40 ◼   ► I mean, a lot of times we can, you know,

00:19:42 ◼   ► we on the outside can sit here and complain and make it.

00:19:46 ◼   ► There are some problems that are frustrating

00:19:47 ◼   ► 'cause it really does seem like it ought to be easy

00:19:49 ◼   ► for a company to fix.

00:19:50 ◼   ► And maybe it's not and you don't wanna,

00:19:52 ◼   ► who knows what the reasons are behind it.

00:19:53 ◼   ► But this is one where clearly it's complicated.

00:19:57 ◼   ► But like just one specific issue with the pro.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Do you use the multitasking on the pro,

00:20:02 ◼   ► the two things at the same time multitasking

00:20:05 ◼   ► where you slide it out from the left?

00:20:06 ◼   ► I do it all the time.

00:20:08 ◼   ► And it's one of those things that quickly became habit

00:20:13 ◼   ► for me.

00:20:14 ◼   ► and to compare and contrast,

00:20:16 ◼   ► I think that it's taken me longer to become a habit

00:20:18 ◼   ► is the new way in iOS 9

00:20:22 ◼   ► that you can put two fingers on the keyboard

00:20:25 ◼   ► and move the insertion point around

00:20:27 ◼   ► when you're editing text.

00:20:29 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I love it,

00:20:30 ◼   ► but I keep forgetting to use it.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Whereas the multitasking-- - Yeah, that's like

00:20:34 ◼   ► the 3D Touch.

00:20:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, same thing.

00:20:36 ◼   ► 3D Touch, I like it, and I'm starting to make it a habit,

00:20:40 ◼   ► but it's, I keep forgetting about it.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Whereas the multitasking on the iPad Pro is like,

00:20:48 ◼   ► I took to it like-- - Second nature for sure.

00:20:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:20:50 ◼   ► But-- - Yeah.

00:20:53 ◼   ► - But for example, you can't put two Safari windows

00:20:59 ◼   ► side by side. - Right.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I mentioned that in my review.

00:21:02 ◼   ► Oh, I've got a stand up, hold on,

00:21:05 ◼   ► my Apple Watch just told me.

00:21:07 ◼   ► Did you hear it?

00:21:08 ◼   ► - Yes. (laughs)

00:21:10 ◼   ► - Should I mute for today?

00:21:11 ◼   ► I don't know, you know, like you feel guilty

00:21:13 ◼   ► hitting that mute for today.

00:21:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do too. - Did you hit the mute

00:21:17 ◼   ► for today?

00:21:18 ◼   ► - No, what I do is, I've had sound off

00:21:21 ◼   ► on my Apple Watch for months now.

00:21:25 ◼   ► I forget the limit.

00:21:26 ◼   ► It's just been, there's too many times

00:21:29 ◼   ► where I want it to be mute,

00:21:30 ◼   ► and so I've just left it muted.

00:21:31 ◼   ► - I'm just kidding, okay, I'm not hitting mute for today.

00:21:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel really bad. - Because no one's gonna

00:21:35 ◼   ► remind me in like 30 minutes again,

00:21:37 ◼   ► and then we can have this conversation over again.

00:21:40 ◼   ► - I feel bad muting for the day when it's this early.

00:21:42 ◼   ► If it still isn't even dark out, I feel like it's too soon.

00:21:47 ◼   ► - I was like, the day's almost over, it's three o'clock.

00:21:49 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:21:51 ◼   ► - But any--

00:21:52 ◼   ► - I mean, I stay up till like 1 a.m.

00:21:53 ◼   ► So it's not really almost over,

00:21:55 ◼   ► but I feel like I can leave the office soon.

00:21:57 ◼   ► - I think you can always leave an office.

00:22:00 ◼   ► Well, this is why I don't.

00:22:02 ◼   ► I've never held an office job for a while.

00:22:03 ◼   ► - I mean, no one's watching me.

00:22:03 ◼   ► I mean, no one knows where I am.

00:22:06 ◼   ► - This is why I was never a good employee,

00:22:09 ◼   ► but I've always felt like as soon as it's dark outside,

00:22:11 ◼   ► can leave so come yeah outside of New York yeah it's perfect it makes me a

00:22:18 ◼   ► substandard employee I think but yeah I mean really nobody's watching my moves

00:22:24 ◼   ► or at least that's what I think listening to this that would be awesome

00:22:29 ◼   ► if he was on a Mac or Windows you it would be crazy to think you couldn't

00:22:38 ◼   ► have two browser tabs, Windows, whatever you want to call them, side by side.

00:22:43 ◼   ► It would be crazy.

00:22:46 ◼   ► And that's where we are though on iOS.

00:22:49 ◼   ► And I don't know what the solution is.

00:22:52 ◼   ► I think it seems to me like with the way that the rules of iOS multitasking where you slide

00:22:58 ◼   ► it over and if you want to switch which app is in that right hand pane, why can't Safari

00:23:03 ◼   ► be listed in there too?

00:23:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, and actually, I wouldn't mind that on the iPhone 2.

00:23:09 ◼   ► I wouldn't mind being able to separate out tabs

00:23:12 ◼   ► as a new window, so I find it annoying.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Sometimes I'll go back and forth between two websites,

00:23:20 ◼   ► and so you know you've gotta hit the tab button

00:23:22 ◼   ► in the right corner.

00:23:23 ◼   ► What if I could just double tap to see two Safari windows

00:23:28 ◼   ► side by, in the multitasking tray carousel thing?

00:23:34 ◼   ► It's, you know, I want that sometimes.

00:23:38 ◼   ► And the same thing with any, with like a,

00:23:40 ◼   ► like a document editing thing,

00:23:42 ◼   ► where if you've got whatever app you use for text editing,

00:23:46 ◼   ► let's just say though,

00:23:47 ◼   ► you're using the built-in notes app.

00:23:49 ◼   ► Why wouldn't you want to be able to have two of those

00:23:51 ◼   ► side by side?

00:23:52 ◼   ► So you could have one that was your notes for an article

00:23:54 ◼   ► and the other is the article you're writing.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - Absolutely.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I mean, I, this is a secret about me.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I, my most used app on my Mac is TextEdit.

00:24:04 ◼   ► I have right now-- - That's true for a lot of people.

00:24:06 ◼   ► - Is it? - Yeah, I think so.

00:24:09 ◼   ► - I feel inferior.

00:24:11 ◼   ► It's just so simple and great.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Right now I have 20 text edit windows open.

00:24:16 ◼   ► I have untitled 21 up right now.

00:24:19 ◼   ► I just open them and jot down notes

00:24:24 ◼   ► and then I just close them.

00:24:25 ◼   ► And yes, it's because I have three of the little ones

00:24:30 ◼   ► on my screen right now

00:24:31 ◼   ► for three different things I'm working on.

00:24:33 ◼   ► I would love to be able to put two of them side by side

00:24:36 ◼   ► on the pro.

00:24:38 ◼   ► I mean, I would love TextEdit on iOS.

00:24:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, there were rumors last year

00:24:44 ◼   ► that they were working on it. - I mean, the TextEdit team,

00:24:45 ◼   ► I mean, really, what have they been doing?

00:24:47 ◼   ► I mean, no offense, TextEdit team,

00:24:51 ◼   ► but there's not been many updates to your app since like,

00:24:54 ◼   ► ever.

00:24:55 ◼   ► And maybe they should get on it.

00:24:58 ◼   ► I mean, just as an advice for the TextEdit team.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Love what you're doing.

00:25:02 ◼   ► Love your work.

00:25:03 ◼   ► Love your app, it's my most used app on my Mac,

00:25:05 ◼   ► but maybe start working on the iOS version.

00:25:08 ◼   ► - It's funny that, there was a rumor last year

00:25:12 ◼   ► that there was gonna be a text edit for iOS,

00:25:16 ◼   ► and preview too.

00:25:18 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I remember that.

00:25:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it seemingly just--

00:25:22 ◼   ► - Preview is another one of my favorites.

00:25:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:25:26 ◼   ► - I mean preview, and this is where when I sometimes

00:25:29 ◼   ► really try and make the switch back to Windows,

00:25:31 ◼   ► These are some of the apps that are so core

00:25:35 ◼   ► to the operating system that Microsoft just doesn't have.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Preview is a great example.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Microsoft just doesn't have something

00:25:42 ◼   ► like Preview on Windows 10.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Like a basic thing where you can look at photos, yes,

00:25:49 ◼   ► but some of those basic editing tools,

00:25:51 ◼   ► and at the ease of using them, not there.

00:25:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, all right, just if you wanna make a quick crop or--

00:25:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, quick crop, resize the photo,

00:26:00 ◼   ► and stuff. I mean, it's a great pre again, the preview team

00:26:04 ◼   ► really.

00:26:04 ◼   ► I mean, it's probably my second use most used app on my Mac.

00:26:09 ◼   ► Here's an example there. I got a a complimentary review copy of

00:26:17 ◼   ► a new book from the people at a list apart last week. Thank you

00:26:21 ◼   ► to them for sending it to me. It was very kind. They sent it to

00:26:23 ◼   ► me by email. And I opened it up and I started reading.

00:26:30 ◼   ► and it was actually a book on responsive web design,

00:26:32 ◼   ► so it's obviously something I need to read

00:26:34 ◼   ► since my website still isn't responsive.

00:26:37 ◼   ► Started reading it and I don't know,

00:26:39 ◼   ► hours later, next day, I wanted to,

00:26:41 ◼   ► I was like, oh, I wanna keep reading that book.

00:26:43 ◼   ► And I was on the iPad Pro and I'm like,

00:26:46 ◼   ► where the hell is that?

00:26:47 ◼   ► And I like blanked out for a couple of seconds,

00:26:50 ◼   ► like why can't I find it here?

00:26:53 ◼   ► And then I realized, oh, there's no preview here.

00:26:57 ◼   ► - Right. - And,

00:26:59 ◼   ► You know, there is a way to do that.

00:27:01 ◼   ► You can use iBooks, you can open the PDF in iBooks

00:27:04 ◼   ► and it'll sync across and you can read on the Mac

00:27:07 ◼   ► and read here.

00:27:08 ◼   ► But I use Preview, not iBooks to read PDFs

00:27:10 ◼   ► because it's, you know, when you double click it,

00:27:12 ◼   ► that's what it opens in on your Mac.

00:27:14 ◼   ► - Right.

00:27:15 ◼   ► I mean, I guess on iOS, they just figure photos

00:27:18 ◼   ► is the answer, but photos doesn't have support for PDF

00:27:23 ◼   ► and some of those kind of features that you have in Preview.

00:27:28 ◼   ► I think what it is more is that they, even with iCloud and even with the new iCloud drive,

00:27:36 ◼   ► which does work pretty well, I think.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I mean, in my experience, it syncs pretty reliably and pretty quickly.

00:27:45 ◼   ► But I feel like they're averse to adding document-oriented apps to iOS, right?

00:27:55 ◼   ► opposed to let's say Notes where the new Notes app is updated on Mac OS XL

00:28:00 ◼   ► Capitan and it's updated on iOS but you don't have files you know now

00:28:05 ◼   ► technically there are files hidden somewhere in your you know library folder

00:28:09 ◼   ► somewhere but there's no files that are actually exposed to you whereas preview

00:28:13 ◼   ► is still about opening PDF dot PDF files and text edit it that's right and that

00:28:18 ◼   ► comes back to our file system conversation right but they have it they

00:28:22 ◼   ► have it with iCloud now and they have the iCloud Drive app but it's almost

00:28:25 ◼   ► like they don't want to even even with the fact that it's that it is now technically possible to

00:28:30 ◼   ► do you know in iOS in a pretty easy you know way I feel like they're just averse to it on

00:28:37 ◼   ► like philosophical grounds almost. Yeah I mean the problem with yeah I guess if you're using

00:28:49 ◼   ► drive and you really are invested in that maybe you don't have a lot of these problems

00:28:53 ◼   ► Well, you do have the problem if some of the apps don't use it.

00:28:56 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:29:00 ◼   ► I can't say I'm going to go to iCloud Drive.

00:29:01 ◼   ► I just can't commit to that.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Do you use it at all?

00:29:05 ◼   ► Not really.

00:29:06 ◼   ► I use it for photos.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Is that different?

00:29:08 ◼   ► It's different, right?

00:29:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:10 ◼   ► That's different because, yeah, that's just iCloud photo syncing where it's not really

00:29:16 ◼   ► in the file system.

00:29:17 ◼   ► See, I live in a Google world.

00:29:20 ◼   ► So then what do you...

00:29:21 ◼   ► Do you live in a Google world?

00:29:22 ◼   ► I try to use as little Google stuff as possible.

00:29:25 ◼   ► So with Google, where do you,

00:29:30 ◼   ► so you use Google Drive to sync documents

00:29:32 ◼   ► from one thing to another?

00:29:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:29:34 ◼   ► - How does that work in the Finder?

00:29:35 ◼   ► I don't even know.

00:29:36 ◼   ► Like how does that work on a Mac?

00:29:38 ◼   ► - Well, you can sync all your Google Drive stuff

00:29:43 ◼   ► to your Mac.

00:29:44 ◼   ► I actually don't do that.

00:29:46 ◼   ► I actually just go through the Chrome browser

00:29:48 ◼   ► because I don't want all those files there.

00:29:52 ◼   ► And I think that that's more likely the most natural way

00:29:55 ◼   ► to do it from a Google point of view.

00:29:57 ◼   ► - Mostly everything for me is right in Chrome.

00:30:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, for me, I do use iCloud Drive,

00:30:07 ◼   ► but it only works with certain apps.

00:30:09 ◼   ► I mean, my primary way of like, hey,

00:30:12 ◼   ► if I have a file that I wanna be available everywhere,

00:30:14 ◼   ► I put it in my Dropbox folder.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Dropbox is the more important,

00:30:18 ◼   ► way more important to me, method.

00:30:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I guess I just,

00:30:23 ◼   ► I really use Drive for my documents,

00:30:28 ◼   ► for like my, yeah, my documents I'm like actively

00:30:32 ◼   ► editing and filing, that's how I actually do file

00:30:35 ◼   ► to my editors through Docs, Google Docs.

00:30:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, for me it's Dropbox.

00:30:40 ◼   ► So like anything, like if I'm working on an article

00:30:42 ◼   ► for Daring Fireball, it's a BB Edit text file,

00:30:46 ◼   ► but it's saved to a folder in Dropbox.

00:30:49 ◼   ► - In Dropbox.

00:30:50 ◼   ► - Hmm, that's a good work around.

00:30:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I usually write a lot in text edit

00:30:57 ◼   ► and then copy into, I have weird things.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Actually, I write most of my columns in Word.

00:31:03 ◼   ► I'm just gonna say it right there.

00:31:05 ◼   ► Still, I just feel comfortable.

00:31:08 ◼   ► On a Sunday when I write, even when I write my scripts,

00:31:11 ◼   ► I just feel really comfortable in Word.

00:31:14 ◼   ► It's just like my place, you know?

00:31:15 ◼   ► So I just go into Word 2001, yep.

00:31:19 ◼   ► still 2011, I'm sorry, 2011.

00:31:22 ◼   ► And that's where I am.

00:31:24 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a weird thing, I guess.

00:31:27 ◼   ► I should probably upgrade this too.

00:31:30 ◼   ► - Well, not that BBEdit isn't relevant,

00:31:33 ◼   ► but the fact that I use a programming text editor

00:31:36 ◼   ► as my writing thing is, you know,

00:31:38 ◼   ► it's not really because I need to,

00:31:40 ◼   ► it's just, that's where I've always done my writing.

00:31:43 ◼   ► And so it's, you know, it is a comfort thing.

00:31:45 ◼   ► I think you wanna be, as you know, writers famously,

00:31:49 ◼   ► you know, whether they're picky about which brand pencil they use if they write in longhand

00:31:53 ◼   ► or, you know, certain brand of typewriter or even like certain types of paper to put

00:32:00 ◼   ► in a typewriter. Writers have always been fussy about stuff like that. And I think it's

00:32:04 ◼   ► because we have so many problems, just problems in general.

00:32:09 ◼   ► We have problems.

00:32:10 ◼   ► We just tend to problematic people.

00:32:11 ◼   ► No, like sometimes I'll have like, you know, I just like don't know how I want to write

00:32:13 ◼   ► something and I'll like, it's one of those pieces. You know, the iPad was a good example

00:32:17 ◼   ► Pro. There were so many different ways could have gone about it, and I wanted to go about

00:32:22 ◼   ► it, but I also had to write for a very mainstream audience on it. And so like, I just had such

00:32:28 ◼   ► a hard time figuring out where to start that piece. And I probably opened like, every text

00:32:34 ◼   ► editing program I had on my computer and just like, maybe if I write it in here, something

00:32:39 ◼   ► will come, you know, like you just every procrastination technique. And it usually involves opening

00:32:45 ◼   ► like every text editor I have on my computer.

00:32:48 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:32:49 ◼   ► - I'm like that sometimes too, especially with the iPad Pro

00:32:53 ◼   ► where I wanted to write my review on the iPad Pro.

00:32:55 ◼   ► So I didn't have BB Edit, so it wasn't like a, you know,

00:32:59 ◼   ► so I just started writing in three or four different apps.

00:33:02 ◼   ► And then I got very confused about,

00:33:04 ◼   ► well, where's the part that I wrote about the pencil?

00:33:06 ◼   ► Oh, it's in the other app.

00:33:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I did the same kind of thing

00:33:09 ◼   ► 'cause I was actually, the day I started

00:33:11 ◼   ► like sitting down to write, I was running the battery test.

00:33:14 ◼   ► So I was writing on my Mac, but then I actually ended up writing a lot of it in pages because

00:33:21 ◼   ► it was, you know, I used, I guess I used iCloud drive for that.

00:33:24 ◼   ► Yeah, you must have.

00:33:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:28 ◼   ► You didn't even know it though.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Didn't even know it.

00:33:31 ◼   ► All right.

00:33:32 ◼   ► Let me take a break here and thank my first sponsor and it's our good friends at Squarespace.

00:33:37 ◼   ► You guys know Squarespace.

00:33:39 ◼   ► It's the all-in-one way to build, design, and host your website.

00:33:45 ◼   ► And it can be any sort of website.

00:33:47 ◼   ► You can build an online store.

00:33:49 ◼   ► You can create a portfolio.

00:33:50 ◼   ► You can create a blog.

00:33:53 ◼   ► You could use it to host a podcast.

00:33:55 ◼   ► They even have, like, for podcasting, they even have their own custom audio player.

00:34:00 ◼   ► They even support built-in things like building an RSS feed with all the weird iTunes stuff

00:34:06 ◼   ► you need for a podcast.

00:34:08 ◼   ► you need for your own personal website or a company website or any sort of website.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Or even a website for your dog.

00:34:14 ◼   ► Yeah, a website for your dog. You could use Squarespace.

00:34:17 ◼   ► You know, I'm not above this. You know how I like to talk about your sponsors. I actually

00:34:22 ◼   ► did this also on the Vergecast a couple weeks ago. I wrote about how to build your own website

00:34:28 ◼   ► a couple of months ago and I fell in love with Squarespace. And I actually made my whole

00:34:33 ◼   ► concept was, I'm going to make a website for my dog. And so when

00:34:38 ◼   ► you go to browser in your browser.com now, that was made

00:34:42 ◼   ► with Squarespace. What's the website? What's the address?

00:34:44 ◼   ► browser in your browser.com browser in your browser.com. And

00:34:49 ◼   ► there's an example of a website built with Squarespace. It is

00:34:53 ◼   ► one also say Squarespace does not pay me. I do not make the

00:34:57 ◼   ► rounds on podcasts to talk about Squarespace.

00:34:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:01 ◼   ► There it is, there it is, browserinyourbrowser.com.

00:35:07 ◼   ► - Tell me this, this is a really nice website, okay?

00:35:11 ◼   ► - It really is.

00:35:12 ◼   ► - It really is.

00:35:14 ◼   ► - I even, it's even typeset

00:35:17 ◼   ► in one of my all time favorite fonts.

00:35:20 ◼   ► It's beautiful, gorgeous Futura Bold.

00:35:22 ◼   ► It's gorgeous.

00:35:24 ◼   ► - Thank you, thank you.

00:35:26 ◼   ► - It really is.

00:35:27 ◼   ► Joanna Stern isn't even paid for this.

00:35:29 ◼   ► I am, but I'm telling you right now, if you need a website,

00:35:32 ◼   ► spend an hour in Squarespace for free

00:35:35 ◼   ► and before you try doing it any other way

00:35:38 ◼   ► and you will be surprised at how far you go.

00:35:40 ◼   ► Plans start at an unbelievable $8 a month,

00:35:44 ◼   ► which includes everything.

00:35:46 ◼   ► It's not just like, oh, you build your website

00:35:48 ◼   ► and then you have to go find a web host,

00:35:50 ◼   ► which is where you're gonna host it.

00:35:52 ◼   ► You've got a big pile of HTML files and stuff

00:35:54 ◼   ► and you upload them.

00:35:55 ◼   ► No, it's all built in.

00:35:56 ◼   ► Squarespace does it all.

00:35:58 ◼   ► You get a free trial to start.

00:36:01 ◼   ► No credit card required.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Just go to squarespace.com and when you do sign up to start paying, just remember the

00:36:07 ◼   ► offer code.

00:36:08 ◼   ► It's my last name, Gruber, G-R-U-B-E-R, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase.

00:36:13 ◼   ► Build it beautiful.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Go to Squarespace.

00:36:15 ◼   ► Seriously, beautiful, beautiful website.

00:36:16 ◼   ► Easy to build.

00:36:17 ◼   ► I really need to update browser in your browser.com.

00:36:22 ◼   ► I can't wait.

00:36:23 ◼   ► I'm paying it.

00:36:24 ◼   ► paying the $9 a month, like you just said,

00:36:27 ◼   ► for the custom domain and for the hosting.

00:36:30 ◼   ► And I need to update the site.

00:36:32 ◼   ► I need to, tonight I'm updating the site.

00:36:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause people are gonna go.

00:36:37 ◼   ► And it is nicely, it is actually very nicely responsive too.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Here I am dragging the window around and as soon as--

00:36:42 ◼   ► - I know, it works really well on mobile.

00:36:44 ◼   ► And you can, that's one of the nice things.

00:36:45 ◼   ► You can see the view, you can see the mobile view.

00:36:48 ◼   ► I did a whole column on it.

00:36:50 ◼   ► I mean, it was a really fun piece.

00:36:55 ◼   ► - They sponsor so many podcasts,

00:36:56 ◼   ► and I know that people,

00:36:58 ◼   ► I don't know if people tune it out or what,

00:37:00 ◼   ► but it is a remarkable service, it really is.

00:37:04 ◼   ► And there's nothing else like it.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I can't think of anything.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I know there's other ways to host websites.

00:37:08 ◼   ► There's a gazillion ways to host websites.

00:37:08 ◼   ► - I can think of a lot of other ways.

00:37:10 ◼   ► You should read my article.

00:37:11 ◼   ► But in the end, all you need to know

00:37:15 ◼   ► is that Squarespace was the top pick,

00:37:17 ◼   ► that one browser in your browser.com.

00:37:19 ◼   ► - There we go.

00:37:20 ◼   ► - But I reviewed like three or four of them.

00:37:21 ◼   ► I really went through the things.

00:37:24 ◼   ► It was a really popular article

00:37:25 ◼   ► 'cause a lot of our readers have small businesses

00:37:27 ◼   ► and were interested in, I got tons of interesting emails

00:37:31 ◼   ► of people who wanted to launch websites

00:37:32 ◼   ► just for small things they wanted to do

00:37:34 ◼   ► and they couldn't believe how easy it was.

00:37:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:37:37 ◼   ► - I need to go work for Squarespace, what am I saying?

00:37:39 ◼   ► I need to go.

00:37:40 ◼   ► I basically sell Squarespace subscriptions

00:37:46 ◼   ► or whatever people sell there.

00:37:48 ◼   ► All right, next device on the list.

00:37:55 ◼   ► I would love to pick your mind about the Surface Pro 4 and the Surface Book.

00:38:05 ◼   ► I actually just got the mailroom just dropped off the latest Surface Book, which they tell

00:38:12 ◼   ► me Microsoft has sent, says this is the shipping unit, I should have no problems.

00:38:17 ◼   ► But that's where I should back up and talk about some of the problems I have, but

00:38:21 ◼   ► I have to take it out of the box.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Yeah, what an interesting series of announcements from Microsoft.

00:38:29 ◼   ► The book, my review was very,

00:38:36 ◼   ► I'll actually just be honest and tell you the story about what happened with

00:38:38 ◼   ► the review.

00:38:39 ◼   ► So I loved using the Surface Book.

00:38:43 ◼   ► I think it's an incredible piece of hardware that Microsoft made.

00:38:46 ◼   ► Everything from sort of the screen to how the keyboard works and

00:38:50 ◼   ► the trackpad actually finally working very, very well.

00:38:54 ◼   ► After years of reviewing, just really just terrible.

00:39:00 ◼   ► I mean, I have probably a lot of emotional and

00:39:04 ◼   ► psychological issues because of how many terrible Windows laptops I've reviewed.

00:39:09 ◼   ► It was just such a nice change.

00:39:14 ◼   ► It's just such a, it was just, you know,

00:39:16 ◼   ► it's just, it was a really big step, I think,

00:39:19 ◼   ► in the history of Windows laptops.

00:39:22 ◼   ► So wrote this really good review,

00:39:24 ◼   ► and then the first unit I had had some issues.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Actually, the first Surface Pro 4 I had had some issues,

00:39:33 ◼   ► and so it wouldn't restart.

00:39:34 ◼   ► And then the Surface Book,

00:39:37 ◼   ► the first one I had had a driver issue,

00:39:41 ◼   ► and so it kind of kept crashing.

00:39:42 ◼   ► And then they sent me another one and about,

00:39:47 ◼   ► I don't know, 24 hours before filing

00:39:50 ◼   ► or that review going up, the thing just completely crashed.

00:39:53 ◼   ► The hard drive just completely crashed,

00:39:56 ◼   ► couldn't restart Windows.

00:39:57 ◼   ► And there was a couple of other bugs

00:39:59 ◼   ► that they said were gonna be sorted through.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And then other reviewers had the same problem.

00:40:05 ◼   ► So I ended up basically saying

00:40:07 ◼   ► I couldn't recommend the Surface Book.

00:40:08 ◼   ► And so now I'm at a point where I'm retesting it

00:40:11 ◼   ► to see if they did solve this hard drive problem.

00:40:15 ◼   ► - It sounds like from what I can tell,

00:40:18 ◼   ► and I did not get one to review,

00:40:20 ◼   ► because I'm not really in that racket,

00:40:24 ◼   ► but I've seen it.

00:40:26 ◼   ► And I was at like a Microsoft event here in Philadelphia

00:40:29 ◼   ► where Ben Rudolph, who's like the lead evangelist

00:40:34 ◼   ► for these things, they hosted a thing

00:40:37 ◼   ► and he was kind enough to invite me

00:40:38 ◼   ► and I got to spend some time using it there.

00:40:40 ◼   ► but it's very different than spending a week with it.

00:40:42 ◼   ► But it sounds to me from reading everything

00:40:44 ◼   ► that what Microsoft did is they seeded the review units

00:40:49 ◼   ► before they had the, whatever you wanna call it,

00:40:53 ◼   ► golden master, this is what's gonna go out to consumers.

00:40:55 ◼   ► And there were some pretty serious bugs

00:40:58 ◼   ► because it wasn't just you,

00:40:59 ◼   ► it was pretty much everybody kind of ran

00:41:01 ◼   ► into the same issues.

00:41:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, there were bugs

00:41:05 ◼   ► and then there were hardware problems.

00:41:06 ◼   ► And the bugs definitely did make it into shipping units.

00:41:11 ◼   ► I got many emails and tweets from readers

00:41:14 ◼   ► who said I had the same problems.

00:41:17 ◼   ► I just went back to the Microsoft store.

00:41:18 ◼   ► I returned it.

00:41:19 ◼   ► There was some clear quality control issues,

00:41:24 ◼   ► just clear issues that made it through to shipping units.

00:41:28 ◼   ► I didn't hear about the hard drive failures.

00:41:31 ◼   ► Yes, and Microsoft did say that they had sent review units

00:41:36 ◼   ► with different hard drives and they had caught

00:41:38 ◼   ► these issues at the factory.

00:41:40 ◼   ► So I had had the problem first on the Surface Pro 4

00:41:44 ◼   ► and then again, you know, the Surface Book as well.

00:41:48 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm hoping this time around,

00:41:50 ◼   ► everything goes as well and I can,

00:41:52 ◼   ► goes well and I can actually, you know,

00:41:54 ◼   ► really recommend this as, you know,

00:41:57 ◼   ► the best Windows laptop ever made.

00:42:00 ◼   ► But--

00:42:01 ◼   ► - Does it have an actual hard drive in it?

00:42:04 ◼   ► It's not an SSD?

00:42:05 ◼   ► - They're SSDs, yeah.

00:42:07 ◼   ► - But they had problems.

00:42:08 ◼   ► - They had problems, yeah.

00:42:09 ◼   ► I'm sorry, I keep using the word hard drive.

00:42:11 ◼   ► But yeah, they're SSDs with some sort of issue.

00:42:15 ◼   ► And as far as I understand,

00:42:17 ◼   ► they actually changed out the manufacturer of it.

00:42:20 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:42:22 ◼   ► So let's give them the benefit of the doubt for now

00:42:26 ◼   ► and talk about it as what it's supposed to be.

00:42:31 ◼   ► And let's assume that they're gonna iron out the bugs

00:42:34 ◼   ► and the manufacturing issues.

00:42:39 ◼   ► And talk about it just for what it should be.

00:42:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I took this like funny,

00:42:52 ◼   ► I mean, I think one of the things that's been interesting

00:42:54 ◼   ► about Microsoft over the last year is like,

00:42:57 ◼   ► when they looked at the tablet market,

00:43:02 ◼   ► they had to kind of say, well, what's our strength?

00:43:04 ◼   ► Our strength is not what the iPad is.

00:43:07 ◼   ► We haven't created a really touch friendly platform that works, or we have,

00:43:12 ◼   ► but they tried to create a touch friendly platform and it failed.

00:43:16 ◼   ► Windows 8 was by and large obviously a huge failure.

00:43:21 ◼   ► And we haven't got the apps to make this that really great,

00:43:25 ◼   ► immersive, compelling experience that the iPad has.

00:43:29 ◼   ► But what we do find is people want to do more work on these things.

00:43:31 ◼   ► So we wanna make tablets more productive.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Which really was like, okay,

00:43:37 ◼   ► we're gonna make tablets that can replace your laptop.

00:43:39 ◼   ► And it was like, okay, so why don't you just make a laptop?

00:43:42 ◼   ► Like the tablet really couldn't replace your laptop.

00:43:45 ◼   ► I mean it could, but it wasn't as good as a laptop.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And it certainly wasn't as good as the laptops they had kept putting it up against,

00:43:51 ◼   ► which was the Air.

00:43:51 ◼   ► So they kept kinda convincing us like, we're really good at productivity and so

00:43:57 ◼   ► you should want to buy our device that can actually be a good laptop.

00:44:01 ◼   ► And it was like, just make a laptop.

00:44:03 ◼   ► And so now they made a laptop, but it's actually still a tablet.

00:44:07 ◼   ► And so it kind of just like, and that's trying to wrap my head around the whole

00:44:10 ◼   ► industry right now, which is tablets that want to be laptops,

00:44:14 ◼   ► laptops that want to be tablets.

00:44:16 ◼   ► In the case of Microsoft, they've got a phone that wants to be a desktop.

00:44:20 ◼   ► What are all of this kind of hybridization of things and

00:44:24 ◼   ► what do we actually want to use?

00:44:27 ◼   ► And I think with the Surface Book,

00:44:29 ◼   ► it's actually coming to a point where it's like,

00:44:31 ◼   ► okay, this could, this kind of feels like the future.

00:44:35 ◼   ► It doesn't, it isn't the best right now.

00:44:37 ◼   ► It's not a great tablet.

00:44:39 ◼   ► It's actually a pretty terrible tablet

00:44:40 ◼   ► when you think about that.

00:44:42 ◼   ► The battery life is really bad when you take it off the dock.

00:44:46 ◼   ► But the idea that, you know,

00:44:48 ◼   ► tablets can just be the tops of our laptops

00:44:50 ◼   ► and that keyboards are just being added back

00:44:53 ◼   ► to these things to make them laptops,

00:44:55 ◼   ► well, that makes kind of sense.

00:44:57 ◼   ► That makes sense, you know?

00:44:58 ◼   ► And so I kind of looked at it from that perspective.

00:45:01 ◼   ► And then I just really tried to look at it as like,

00:45:03 ◼   ► this is just a Windows laptop.

00:45:04 ◼   ► And it's like, got the build of an Apple laptop.

00:45:08 ◼   ► It's got a touchpad that actually works

00:45:10 ◼   ► that I don't wanna hook up a huge mouse to it.

00:45:13 ◼   ► It's got a beautiful screen.

00:45:15 ◼   ► And so on hardware,

00:45:16 ◼   ► Microsoft's finally giving us something that heightens

00:45:20 ◼   ► and makes Windows worth it.

00:45:23 ◼   ► I just threw out a lot of thoughts, but.

00:45:26 ◼   ► - No, but that's,

00:45:27 ◼   ► So when I was at the iPad Pro event in September,

00:45:32 ◼   ► and in the hands-on area, I was hanging out

00:45:34 ◼   ► with my friend Michael Johnson, AKA Dr. Wave on Twitter,

00:45:38 ◼   ► who's a developer at Pixar, and writes internal tools

00:45:43 ◼   ► for Pixar and has written a lot of software

00:45:46 ◼   ► to use the Wacom tablets and all sorts, for their artists.

00:45:50 ◼   ► I hung around with him because he knows

00:45:54 ◼   ► what the hell he's talking about in terms of evaluating

00:45:57 ◼   ► stylist on a thing. And one of the things he did when he first got to try the

00:46:02 ◼   ► Apple Pencil on the iPad Pro is all he did was just in the like the the Apple

00:46:07 ◼   ► Notes app, he just put the pencil down and just started scribbling circles. Just

00:46:11 ◼   ► spirally circles and just watching the latency. That's all he did just to see

00:46:16 ◼   ► and he was very impressed. And it you know all he wanted to test at first was

00:46:19 ◼   ► the palm rejection and if he drew squiggles really really fast did it keep

00:46:24 ◼   ► up. That's exactly what I did when I got to try the Surface Book with the trackpad. I

00:46:31 ◼   ► just wanted to see, just put my finger on the trackpad and look at the mouse cursor

00:46:35 ◼   ► and I just moved it around in a circle really fast to see, does this work like a MacBook

00:46:42 ◼   ► trackpad where it's great or is it like every other PC I've ever put my hands on in recent

00:46:48 ◼   ► years where it's, you know, oh man, I can see why people still miss the ThinkPad nubbin.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Yeah, the niggle.

00:46:56 ◼   ► Because the trackpad stinks. And it was great. I mean, the Surface Pro trackpad, I mean,

00:47:00 ◼   ► again, did I spend a week with it? No. But in terms of just that quick test, it was great.

00:47:05 ◼   ► I mean, I'm the reviewer who has said for the last five years, it is probably Apple's

00:47:13 ◼   ► most favorite thing that I have said,

00:47:15 ◼   ► that Apple makes the best Windows computer.

00:47:18 ◼   ► And I said it when I was working at Engadget,

00:47:21 ◼   ► I said when I was working at The Verge,

00:47:22 ◼   ► and I've said it when I've been working here at the Journal,

00:47:25 ◼   ► when you install Windows on a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro,

00:47:30 ◼   ► Windows runs better there than it does

00:47:33 ◼   ► on pretty much any other laptop I've ever tested

00:47:35 ◼   ► in the last 10 years.

00:47:37 ◼   ► And that is a problem for Microsoft.

00:47:42 ◼   ► as more and more people buy iPhones,

00:47:45 ◼   ► more and more people see what Apple does

00:47:48 ◼   ► in terms of hardware and software collaboration,

00:47:51 ◼   ► that is a problem for Microsoft,

00:47:52 ◼   ► especially in the place where they most want us

00:47:55 ◼   ► to look to them, which is work, doing things.

00:48:00 ◼   ► And so I think, you know, that's where the Surface Book,

00:48:03 ◼   ► okay, maybe they're not gonna sell as many

00:48:05 ◼   ► as they may want, and I think that they,

00:48:09 ◼   ► I think the pricing structure

00:48:11 ◼   ► And certainly, if you ask my opinion, I think a lot of it is to protect the OEMs

00:48:16 ◼   ► and their partners right now.

00:48:17 ◼   ► I think there's very clear delineation of what's been happening.

00:48:21 ◼   ► You know, this is a computer that starts well above $1,200.

00:48:25 ◼   ► Once you get it to where you want it, most PC buyers buy things under $1,000.

00:48:31 ◼   ► But still, I just think as a proof of concept and for Microsoft to say, look,

00:48:36 ◼   ► we can actually make great hardware for a really great operating system

00:48:40 ◼   ► that we have out right now, we can do it too.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Yeah, they're they're dancing in a very precarious situation

00:48:53 ◼   ► dealing with the OEMs. And they have been ever since they

00:48:56 ◼   ► started with the very first surface, which was really, you

00:49:00 ◼   ► know, clearly not as much, you know, it's more of a, even that,

00:49:04 ◼   ► you know, when the first one, they had the two versions, one

00:49:06 ◼   ► that was the surface that was the arm and, you know, way more

00:49:10 ◼   ► like an iPad and ran a different version of Windows and then they had the Surface Pro

00:49:14 ◼   ► which had an Intel chip and ran the full version of Windows 8. Even though it was a full Windows

00:49:20 ◼   ► 8 computer, it was clearly less of a, "Hey, this is a true alternative to a laptop from

00:49:27 ◼   ► Dell or from Lenovo or whoever else, HP, whoever, you name them." It was definitely, this is

00:49:34 ◼   ► like a new concept. Whereas the, now they've, starting from that point, they're clearly

00:49:39 ◼   ► and now with the Surface Book, they are clearly, they have an alternative to a laptop from

00:49:45 ◼   ► one of their OEM partners and that's a weird place for them to be.

00:49:50 ◼   ► And I think you're right.

00:49:51 ◼   ► Right, and actually looking now to see the pricing, they had a cheaper skew and it's

00:49:57 ◼   ► not here now.

00:49:58 ◼   ► It's $1500 starting right now.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Right, which is definitely premium even by Apple standards.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean most people are buying that thousand dollar air

00:50:09 ◼   ► Right it it definitely has

00:50:13 ◼   ► Impressive build quality though, and I'm not surprised by that

00:50:17 ◼   ► I think the entire story of this this device the fact that the first units that were sent out had these weird bugs and

00:50:24 ◼   ► Manufacturing things well, you know guess what hardware is hard and Microsoft is still sort of new at it

00:50:31 ◼   ► And it's a tribute to the expertise of the existing companies Apple certainly

00:50:37 ◼   ► But even on the PC side, you know that that most PCs that you test right don't have those sort of problems

00:50:44 ◼   ► That's unusual for you to get a review unit that has problems like this, right?

00:50:48 ◼   ► Yes, well

00:51:00 ◼   ► I'm trying to think back.

00:51:01 ◼   ► I have had many instances where PC manufacturers

00:51:06 ◼   ► had really messed up certain components

00:51:10 ◼   ► and they just did not work.

00:51:12 ◼   ► Yeah, but you know what?

00:51:16 ◼   ► You kind of seemed more forgivable in those senses.

00:51:21 ◼   ► - How about this?

00:51:22 ◼   ► Unusual but not unprecedented.

00:51:24 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, absolutely.

00:51:26 ◼   ► - So it's not surprising that there,

00:51:29 ◼   ► to me that they're having those problems.

00:51:32 ◼   ► But on the other hand, they have been making--

00:51:35 ◼   ► Microsoft has made peripherals for a long time.

00:51:38 ◼   ► I mean, as long as I can remember,

00:51:40 ◼   ► Microsoft has been making mice and keyboards.

00:51:42 ◼   ► And their mice and keyboards have always been excellent.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I mean, truly top notch peripherals.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Oh, by the way, I want to say I corrected.

00:51:53 ◼   ► The entry level is 1,500.

00:51:54 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:51:55 ◼   ► For some reason, I thought it was 1,300.

00:51:57 ◼   ► It's 1500 on the Surface Book.

00:52:00 ◼   ► - So I'm not surprised.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, they've always made great peripherals.

00:52:06 ◼   ► - I thought that the keyboard on the Surface Book

00:52:11 ◼   ► was excellent, the trackpad was excellent,

00:52:13 ◼   ► the driver support to make sure

00:52:15 ◼   ► that the good hardware trackpad actually translated

00:52:19 ◼   ► to a good experience on screen was absolutely seamless.

00:52:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I mean, the issues really did come down to,

00:52:29 ◼   ► I think there were some bugs and issues with the drivers

00:52:33 ◼   ► for the display that was causing a couple of flickering

00:52:37 ◼   ► issues and then obviously there was other things.

00:52:38 ◼   ► So I'm excited to take this one out of the box

00:52:40 ◼   ► and see how it goes.

00:52:42 ◼   ► But I know I've heard from a lot of happy buyers.

00:52:44 ◼   ► I mean, you know, when it comes to,

00:52:47 ◼   ► I mean, it's also a really, really powerful system.

00:52:50 ◼   ► So, and I like the pen too.

00:52:52 ◼   ► I mean, I actually still now prefer the iPad Pro pen over the Surface pen, though I've

00:53:00 ◼   ► lost both of them.

00:53:01 ◼   ► So that's...

00:53:02 ◼   ► Wait, in your review, you said you only had lost the cap, but now you've lost the entire

00:53:08 ◼   ► pencil?

00:53:09 ◼   ► Yes, I can't find the pen right now.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Pencil.

00:53:11 ◼   ► I think I know where it is.

00:53:13 ◼   ► I mean, this is a really big problem.

00:53:15 ◼   ► I mean, it's 2015 and we cannot find our styluses.

00:53:20 ◼   ► We need a better way to keep track of our styluses.

00:53:23 ◼   ► And actually I have to say, Samsung, they have that feature where if the stylus goes

00:53:29 ◼   ► too far away, it will tell you on your phone.

00:53:32 ◼   ► I don't know if they have that in the current note, but they had it.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Something like that is, I think, kind of the key to the prevention of the loss or the kidnapping

00:53:43 ◼   ► of the styluses.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I thought about the like I kind of I do enjoy one of my favorite Apple Watch features is

00:53:52 ◼   ► the make your phone beep. Yeah. Yeah, I thought about that. We need something like that. Well,

00:54:00 ◼   ► but the problem I think would be that I suspect that the pencil, I suspect that the pencil

00:54:07 ◼   ► turn Well, yeah, it would need a it would need a speaker. And B, it would need to be

00:54:11 ◼   ► on all the time. Like the reason it works for finding your phone is that until a phone

00:54:14 ◼   ► is off, it's on in some degree. And the pencil, I think one of the reasons it gets such a

00:54:19 ◼   ► seemingly amazing battery life is that it somehow turns off in a very intelligent manner

00:54:26 ◼   ► when you're not using it.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Yes.

00:54:28 ◼   ► And so I don't know.

00:54:29 ◼   ► But also, like they have, I did a piece a couple of years ago about the Bluetooth low

00:54:37 ◼   ► energy trackers. And so those work when they're in the vicinity of your phone. So possibly,

00:54:46 ◼   ► and there's really interesting crowdsourcing stuff that's happening with those, that if

00:54:51 ◼   ► those are in the proximity of another one of those, like, have you seen the tile trackers

00:54:56 ◼   ► or the tracker? Like, those, those can talk to each other. So what if all the styluses

00:55:01 ◼   ► could talk to each other?

00:55:04 ◼   ► That would be something.

00:55:05 ◼   ► It needs to be solved.

00:55:08 ◼   ► It's definitely a problem.

00:55:10 ◼   ► It's definitely a problem.

00:55:11 ◼   ► I need to have many conversations with Apple.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Number one, let's talk about the stylists talking to each other.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Number two, let's talk about text edit.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Number three, let's talk about an ad where iPad lovers fall in love around the iPad.

00:55:27 ◼   ► A shared movie.

00:55:30 ◼   ► All these things could happen in one ad.

00:55:31 ◼   ► All right.

00:55:32 ◼   ► to take a break here and I want to thank our next friend of the show, next

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00:58:15 ◼   ► And I have to read this for compliance purposes

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00:58:55 ◼   ► I'm freaked out.

00:58:56 ◼   ► I love these guys.

00:58:57 ◼   ► It sounds like a great service.

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00:58:59 ◼   ► I can't use it.

00:59:00 ◼   ► That's part of the deal with the SEC stuff is that if you are being paid by them as an

00:59:06 ◼   ► advertiser, I'm not allowed to invest the money with them.

00:59:11 ◼   ► But it's interesting.

00:59:14 ◼   ► It spooks me out that I have, like, this show is obviously sort of a seat of the pants operation.

00:59:24 ◼   ► And it really spooks me that they're like, the thing comes with this big, bold thing.

00:59:29 ◼   ► And I've spoken to them on the phone to get briefed on how the whole thing works.

00:59:32 ◼   ► And they're very nice people.

00:59:33 ◼   ► But to have an all caps bold, "You must read this for legal purposes" thing, it freaks

00:59:40 ◼   ► me the hell out.

00:59:43 ◼   ► With the Surface Book, I think you're clearly, it's clearly a laptop first and a tablet second

00:59:51 ◼   ► for multiple reasons.

00:59:54 ◼   ► It's part of the GPU processing is in the part that you detach.

00:59:58 ◼   ► It's in the keyboard part.

01:00:02 ◼   ► And like you said, it doesn't get-

01:00:03 ◼   ► And the battery life is all in the keyboard.

01:00:09 ◼   ► But it's way less cumbersome than I thought, including the software support in Windows.

01:00:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, a lot of people also complained about the screen wobble.

01:00:25 ◼   ► That was a deal breaker for some people.

01:00:28 ◼   ► The screen wobble is not a deal breaker for me.

01:00:31 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, when you shake the top of the screen, it certainly wobbles more than a laptop

01:00:37 ◼   ► that has a very sturdy hinge. But yeah, not not a deal breaker. I

01:00:42 ◼   ► think the screen wobble.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Oh, I think Apple had had a screen wobble like that. And it's

01:00:48 ◼   ► like, I don't know. I don't know how I'd feel if Apple had a

01:00:51 ◼   ► screen wobble like that.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Well, I think if if a if a MacBook had screen wobble like

01:00:58 ◼   ► that, but it didn't detach, right? It would be a pure

01:01:02 ◼   ► complaint like the other ones don't wobble this one wobbles.

01:01:06 ◼   ► you know, what in the world is wrong with this hinge?

01:01:09 ◼   ► Whereas if it wobbles, but it's because you can detach it,

01:01:12 ◼   ► it's, you know, it's a trade off.

01:01:13 ◼   ► It's, you know, it's obviously not ideal,

01:01:15 ◼   ► but it is a trade off.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And I think it's fair to say that,

01:01:19 ◼   ► I like, for example, with the iPad Pro,

01:01:22 ◼   ► when you connect the Apple's Smart Keyboard,

01:01:25 ◼   ► I can use it on my lap.

01:01:28 ◼   ► I, in fact, I have.

01:01:29 ◼   ► I've used it, you know, on my lap, resting on my thighs.

01:01:35 ◼   ► and I've found it sturdy. - Yeah, it's not great

01:01:36 ◼   ► if it works.

01:01:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, but it wobbles.

01:01:38 ◼   ► I mean, I think it wobbles more than the Surface Book would.

01:01:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, in my iPad Pro video, I showed it wobbling off.

01:01:46 ◼   ► But that's more, that's actually not,

01:01:49 ◼   ► that's more top heavy.

01:01:53 ◼   ► I think that's more because the smart cover,

01:01:57 ◼   ► the smart keyboard case is,

01:01:59 ◼   ► weighs less than the tablet.

01:02:03 ◼   ► So when you put it on your leg and it's not on an even plane,

01:02:07 ◼   ► it doesn't have the balancing to balance itself out.

01:02:12 ◼   ► It doesn't have the weight, the evenness of the weight.

01:02:15 ◼   ► But yeah, no, I mean, yeah,

01:02:20 ◼   ► I don't, like, certainly there are compromises

01:02:23 ◼   ► that you're making in design now for either option, right?

01:02:27 ◼   ► And it's like, I don't really know what to call these things

01:02:30 ◼   ► But when you're trying to put a tablet with the keyboard,

01:02:33 ◼   ► you're sacrificing some of the best things about a laptop,

01:02:37 ◼   ► which is using it on your lap,

01:02:38 ◼   ► or using it while you're still your lap.

01:02:42 ◼   ► I just think of the scenarios

01:02:44 ◼   ► when I actually use it on my lap,

01:02:45 ◼   ► which is either sitting in bed or on a couch.

01:02:48 ◼   ► And then when you're combining the tablet

01:02:50 ◼   ► with the laptop, whatever you wanna call these things

01:02:54 ◼   ► that are laptops with tablets, like the Surface Book,

01:02:59 ◼   ► you are making compromises in some of the laptop design.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So whether that be the screen hinge or battery

01:03:05 ◼   ► or can't think of another example right now.

01:03:10 ◼   ► There's something else but I can't think of it.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:03:12 ◼   ► - So there are these form factor compromises

01:03:16 ◼   ► we're making on both sides.

01:03:17 ◼   ► And that's what is so hard right now,

01:03:22 ◼   ► like how I started the conversation,

01:03:23 ◼   ► it's like it's so hard to ask people

01:03:28 ◼   ► or to recommend things when it comes down

01:03:30 ◼   ► to what a user's willing to compromise, right?

01:03:34 ◼   ► I mean, when I look at the differences

01:03:37 ◼   ► between something like a Surface Pro 4 and the iPad Pro,

01:03:41 ◼   ► they're such different products.

01:03:43 ◼   ► There are so many different compromises you'd make

01:03:46 ◼   ► on either side, whether it's because of how

01:03:49 ◼   ► the hardware was designed or because of how

01:03:51 ◼   ► the software is so different.

01:03:52 ◼   ► And that, you know, that's like,

01:03:56 ◼   ► That's what is very confusing about

01:03:58 ◼   ► what's happening in computing.

01:04:00 ◼   ► And like part of me wonders,

01:04:02 ◼   ► does all of this have to be happening right now?

01:04:05 ◼   ► You know, is this partially on the Windows side

01:04:08 ◼   ► to get people more interested again in buying PCs?

01:04:11 ◼   ► Is it just that laptops were boring

01:04:13 ◼   ► and people weren't buying them?

01:04:14 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:04:16 ◼   ► On the iPad side, I wonder,

01:04:17 ◼   ► is this a way just to get more people interested again

01:04:20 ◼   ► in the iPad because they want them to do more things?

01:04:25 ◼   ► You know, and it ultimately comes down to

01:04:27 ◼   ► when you're choosing a computer now,

01:04:29 ◼   ► what is it that you want these things to do

01:04:32 ◼   ► and what are you gonna live with?

01:04:33 ◼   ► What are the compromises you're gonna live with?

01:04:36 ◼   ► - I find it, and this is not a normal problem

01:04:41 ◼   ► that most people have, but because I have review units

01:04:44 ◼   ► of all of these various products,

01:04:46 ◼   ► I have all three iPad sizes here,

01:04:49 ◼   ► and they're all set up for me, ready to go.

01:04:51 ◼   ► And I have my MacBook Pro.

01:04:54 ◼   ► And I find it hard at any given moment to choose which

01:04:58 ◼   ► First for like if I'm gonna go away for a week

01:05:01 ◼   ► And which is what we did last week for Thanksgiving family went away for a week

01:05:05 ◼   ► Which iPad do I want to take with me? I don't want to take them all and so I took the

01:05:09 ◼   ► Just to get a break because I've been using the iPad Pro so much

01:05:13 ◼   ► I thought let's go to the complete opposite end of the lineup, and I just took the iPad mini with me

01:05:18 ◼   ► and one of the reasons I did that was also

01:05:23 ◼   ► because my phone is on Verizon, my iPad Mini is on AT&T,

01:05:28 ◼   ► and I find that that's a really useful combination

01:05:30 ◼   ► while traveling because you can go somewhere

01:05:32 ◼   ► where maybe one or the other has terrible service,

01:05:35 ◼   ► but if the other one does, you can just use that one.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And I really liked it.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I still like the iPad Mini a lot.

01:05:44 ◼   ► It's just good at very different things though.

01:05:48 ◼   ► - What iPhone do you have?

01:05:49 ◼   ► - It's iPhone 6. - The 6.

01:05:52 ◼   ► - Not success, but not the big one.

01:05:54 ◼   ► - Not the plus.

01:05:55 ◼   ► - Right, I can't stand the plus.

01:05:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't like the plus either,

01:05:59 ◼   ► but I just did this smartphone buyer's guide

01:06:02 ◼   ► and it's like, on paper, the plus is so much better.

01:06:07 ◼   ► It is the iPhone I should have,

01:06:12 ◼   ► but I don't like using it.

01:06:14 ◼   ► It's just so big.

01:06:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, technically it is clearly the best device.

01:06:20 ◼   ► the image stabilization for video and still photos.

01:06:23 ◼   ► - And the battery life and the photos are just,

01:06:26 ◼   ► and you'd think like those are the two most important things

01:06:28 ◼   ► we want in phones right now, right?

01:06:30 ◼   ► Like better cameras and better battery life,

01:06:32 ◼   ► why don't I just get this bigger phone and I just can't,

01:06:35 ◼   ► you know, and I also, when I reviewed it,

01:06:36 ◼   ► I just couldn't like gravitate towards the plus.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I just hope with the 7 or the next version

01:06:44 ◼   ► that maybe they figure out a way to get the bigger screen

01:06:47 ◼   ► into a smaller body and we won't have to make

01:06:50 ◼   ► the sacrifices of these things because the phone will just feel

01:06:54 ◼   ► smaller.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't care even care about the bigger getting a bit

01:06:57 ◼   ► more screen on the smaller device. I just want I just don't

01:07:00 ◼   ► want a device that's any physically bigger than this.

01:07:03 ◼   ► And I would I just will hope that they can figure out is to

01:07:06 ◼   ► get the optical image stabilization in the smaller one

01:07:08 ◼   ► and it would be wonderful if they could get the battery

01:07:11 ◼   ► battery plus in the small one, but I'm not holding my breath on

01:07:14 ◼   ► that one. Right? Yeah, but I totally see why some people do I

01:07:18 ◼   ► I know our friend, Nilay, is a Plus user,

01:07:23 ◼   ► and I was talking about it.

01:07:24 ◼   ► - 'Cause he has giant hands.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - He has giant hands, but he also told me that he,

01:07:28 ◼   ► most days, literally does most of his work on his phone.

01:07:32 ◼   ► - Right. - And if that's true

01:07:33 ◼   ► for anybody, you know, like, tons and tons of emails.

01:07:36 ◼   ► - It is for so many people.

01:07:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, and if that's true, that you actually send

01:07:41 ◼   ► most of your email from your phone and stuff like that,

01:07:43 ◼   ► I can totally see why having the bigger keyboard,

01:07:46 ◼   ► you know, for two thumb typing and the extra battery life

01:07:50 ◼   ► is a killer feature.

01:07:52 ◼   ► I totally understand why some people love the plus.

01:07:56 ◼   ► It's just not for me.

01:07:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, same.

01:07:58 ◼   ► No, I mean, and I always want to.

01:08:00 ◼   ► Like when I was doing the smartphone buyers,

01:08:02 ◼   ► I was like, I'm gonna do it.

01:08:04 ◼   ► I put my SIM in there, use it for a day.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I just can't.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And then I just bought a new 6S on Sunday.

01:08:11 ◼   ► - Did you really?

01:08:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I had been using the review unit for--

01:08:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:08:16 ◼   ► - And it was time.

01:08:17 ◼   ► It was time to send back everything.

01:08:19 ◼   ► So I now have a brand new 6 Plus or 6S.

01:08:24 ◼   ► - Well, hold that thought.

01:08:28 ◼   ► That's actually a good point.

01:08:29 ◼   ► So one of the things that we go through

01:08:32 ◼   ► as reviewers of these things is we have to set up

01:08:36 ◼   ► these devices more often than most people.

01:08:38 ◼   ► 'Cause it's, you know, at least three times a year,

01:08:41 ◼   ► I have to set one up.

01:08:42 ◼   ► I get a, 'cause now I get two review units,

01:08:45 ◼   ► the 6S and the 6S Plus,

01:08:47 ◼   ► and then I buy my own one that I actually use.

01:08:50 ◼   ► I think that the setup process

01:08:57 ◼   ► for buying a new iPhone is terrible.

01:09:01 ◼   ► - I just tweeted, did you see my tweet earlier this week?

01:09:04 ◼   ► - No, didn't even see it.

01:09:05 ◼   ► - I said, I can't pull it up right now,

01:09:08 ◼   ► but maybe I can.

01:09:09 ◼   ► I said, I got a new iPhone 6S,

01:09:12 ◼   ► I'm not restoring from backup.

01:09:15 ◼   ► I'm just setting it up as a new phone, #YOLO.

01:09:18 ◼   ► 'Cause usually I do a restore

01:09:23 ◼   ► and I'm not doing the restore anymore.

01:09:26 ◼   ► - I wonder that might, maybe that's the way to go.

01:09:31 ◼   ► - It's just freeing.

01:09:32 ◼   ► Like this phone, it's like, of course it's brand new,

01:09:35 ◼   ► but it feels really still brand new.

01:09:37 ◼   ► It's not slow with like tons of apps and folders

01:09:41 ◼   ► that I never use.

01:09:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, that's the big thing, right?

01:09:46 ◼   ► It doesn't carry over the apps.

01:09:47 ◼   ► Everything else was blacked up to the cloud.

01:09:50 ◼   ► - Right.

01:09:50 ◼   ► - I mean, it didn't, and it also doesn't pull over your,

01:09:52 ◼   ► so I got into this conversation online.

01:09:55 ◼   ► The big thing that it,

01:09:56 ◼   ► the biggest sacrifice you make now

01:10:00 ◼   ► is that your iWatch, your Apple Watch activity data

01:10:05 ◼   ► does not make its way over.

01:10:07 ◼   ► - Which is terrible.

01:10:10 ◼   ► That doesn't make any sense at all.

01:10:11 ◼   ► - It's terrible.

01:10:11 ◼   ► - That doesn't make any sense at all.

01:10:12 ◼   ► - And everyone said privacy, and I was like,

01:10:13 ◼   ► I just wish there was an option to opt in,

01:10:15 ◼   ► to sync that to the cloud,

01:10:17 ◼   ► and bring it over to my new iPhone.

01:10:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, and one of the things

01:10:22 ◼   ► that I've seen people complain about,

01:10:24 ◼   ► and this isn't my complaint,

01:10:25 ◼   ► is I've seen people complain about,

01:10:28 ◼   ► and somebody made like a diagram and posted it to Twitter,

01:10:30 ◼   ► where it was like in 2007,

01:10:32 ◼   ► from like out of the box to using it,

01:10:36 ◼   ► your, you know, the original iPhone,

01:10:38 ◼   ► It was like three things, you know,

01:10:40 ◼   ► three little screens you went through,

01:10:41 ◼   ► and then boom, you're at the home screen.

01:10:43 ◼   ► And now there's like 21 steps that you go through.

01:10:46 ◼   ► But I don't, that's not the part that I find terrible,

01:10:49 ◼   ► 'cause I actually, I understand that when they say,

01:10:52 ◼   ► "Hey, do you want to allow location?"

01:10:55 ◼   ► I understand why they do that, and it takes,

01:10:57 ◼   ► it's just a tap.

01:10:58 ◼   ► So I don't mind that you say,

01:11:00 ◼   ► "Yes, I want to allow location.

01:11:02 ◼   ► "Yes, here's my iCloud username and password."

01:11:07 ◼   ► Yes, you can share my data with developers.

01:11:10 ◼   ► That's not my problem.

01:11:12 ◼   ► But given that they're already making

01:11:15 ◼   ► you go through those steps, I don't find that to be a problem.

01:11:18 ◼   ► My problem is with the fact that once you're past that,

01:11:24 ◼   ► it takes so long and it's indeterminate for all

01:11:27 ◼   ► of your stuff to come over.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And you've got all these apps that are darkened out

01:11:31 ◼   ► because it's like they're coming,

01:11:34 ◼   ► but they're not there yet, but you don't see any progress.

01:11:36 ◼   ► - You mean when you restore it?

01:11:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, when you-- - When you sign in and yeah.

01:11:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:11:40 ◼   ► - If you don't select setup as new.

01:11:42 ◼   ► - Right.

01:11:43 ◼   ► I just don't see for the Apple Watch Health stuff,

01:11:46 ◼   ► I don't see why that isn't an option at that point too,

01:11:49 ◼   ► where what do you wanna do with your Apple Watch?

01:11:51 ◼   ► Do you want to just keep it on the iPhone,

01:11:55 ◼   ► which is more private,

01:11:57 ◼   ► or would you allow us to store it

01:12:00 ◼   ► in your iCloud account online, which--

01:12:04 ◼   ► That's all I'm saying, I just want an option.

01:12:07 ◼   ► - Right, and I don't see, it certainly is private.

01:12:10 ◼   ► I mean, I don't want, you know,

01:12:12 ◼   ► and I realize that if there's some kind of bug

01:12:17 ◼   ► in, you know, on Apple's server-side stuff

01:12:20 ◼   ► that someday somebody, there might be some kind of breach

01:12:23 ◼   ► that would let that stuff out,

01:12:25 ◼   ► and I wouldn't want that to happen.

01:12:27 ◼   ► But to me, it's no more private than,

01:12:30 ◼   ► in fact, for me personally,

01:12:32 ◼   ► I would consider it less private than my email, which I have at Mac.com.

01:12:36 ◼   ► Or your contact list.

01:12:37 ◼   ► Or my contact list, or my iMessages.

01:12:40 ◼   ► I actually use iMessage more than I use my Mac.com email.

01:12:43 ◼   ► So the contents of my iMessages are far more.

01:12:46 ◼   ► And I guess the whole iMessage history isn't stored on cloud.

01:12:49 ◼   ► But iMessages aren't—right.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Yeah, iMessage history isn't—

01:12:51 ◼   ► But my email is—if it was something I could opt into, I would.

01:12:55 ◼   ► I trust Apple enough that I would trust it.

01:12:57 ◼   ► But your email with Apple is on their servers, not—

01:13:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Not others.

01:13:03 ◼   ► >> Right, but they certainly host things.

01:13:05 ◼   ► They do host things that are private.

01:13:07 ◼   ► >> Right.

01:13:08 ◼   ► >> I don't see why my Apple Watch data can't be.

01:13:13 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I mean, I just wish, even if it was just like for the one time sync.

01:13:18 ◼   ► And then they delete it or something, I don't know.

01:13:22 ◼   ► I don't know enough about that.

01:13:24 ◼   ► But yes, that is the one annoying thing I did not get from the restore.

01:13:30 ◼   ► And also, iMessage history.

01:13:31 ◼   ► You can sync all your old messages.

01:13:36 ◼   ► But other than that, I'm really happy with my setup

01:13:40 ◼   ► as new iPhone.

01:13:41 ◼   ► It's like a whole new world.

01:13:42 ◼   ► It's like a whole new world.

01:13:45 ◼   ► It's a tempting way to clean up all the apps you're not

01:13:48 ◼   ► using, too.

01:13:48 ◼   ► Yeah, and it really makes you think

01:13:50 ◼   ► about what the best apps you use.

01:13:52 ◼   ► And I redid my whole home screen, and this is all I use.

01:13:57 ◼   ► lot of Google, but a lot of Google and social networks, basically.

01:14:02 ◼   ► Right. And yes, the Starbucks app.

01:14:06 ◼   ► What a pain. It's such a pain in the ass to set up.

01:14:11 ◼   ► The Starbucks app?

01:14:12 ◼   ► Wait for the sync. No, no, no. To set up a new device and have all those apps sync over.

01:14:16 ◼   ► To set up a new device. Yeah.

01:14:17 ◼   ► I find it easier. I do it. See, and so for example, with iPads, I never, I almost never restore from a backup.

01:14:23 ◼   ► I just always start the iPad fresh.

01:14:25 ◼   ► So like the iPad Pro that I've been using,

01:14:28 ◼   ► since whenever they seeded the review unit.

01:14:31 ◼   ► It's a lot easier to do than with an iPhone

01:14:33 ◼   ► 'cause I don't feel like you're giving things up.

01:14:34 ◼   ► You're not giving things up like your message,

01:14:36 ◼   ► well, I guess you are giving up somewhat

01:14:38 ◼   ► of your message history, but I like the fact that--

01:14:40 ◼   ► - Right, but that's probably not your main device for that.

01:14:42 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:14:43 ◼   ► And--

01:14:45 ◼   ► - And actually, I did the same for that Pro.

01:14:49 ◼   ► When I did the iPhone reviews,

01:14:53 ◼   ► I have to think, no, you know, for the iPhone reviews,

01:14:55 ◼   ► I didn't restore from backup.

01:14:58 ◼   ► And then when I started using it as like my phone

01:15:01 ◼   ► for a little bit, I did restore from an old backup

01:15:03 ◼   ► because I didn't wanna test the battery life in my test

01:15:06 ◼   ► with a, I just wanted to do it completely clean.

01:15:08 ◼   ► But yeah, but yeah, most of the time

01:15:13 ◼   ► when I've got new phones, I do a restore.

01:15:16 ◼   ► And my wife has done a restore and her like,

01:15:19 ◼   ► and that's why I think it's also ridiculous.

01:15:21 ◼   ► Because in some of those restore files, they have crazy things in there.

01:15:24 ◼   ► The files can be like, I think her last one was like 60 or 70 gigs.

01:15:30 ◼   ► Because she had done the restore of, you do the restore, it's all your photos that were

01:15:34 ◼   ► stored on the phone, videos, everything.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Even photos that were in your iMessages.

01:15:43 ◼   ► And sometimes those, I had at one point had one of her files on my computer and it was

01:15:47 ◼   ► taking up a ton of space.

01:15:49 ◼   ► yeah they can definitely get big but that's 70 gigs is really big because

01:15:54 ◼   ► they don't back up some of the stuff they don't back up like your iTunes stuff

01:15:57 ◼   ► because they you know yeah they can sing that right they can sync it from the

01:16:02 ◼   ► server but that's part of the process though that I hate is that it's

01:16:05 ◼   ► indeterminate when that's going to finish there's nowhere to go where it

01:16:09 ◼   ► shows you a progress bar that says here's all the stuff that we are

01:16:12 ◼   ► are restoring and here's what state it is.

01:16:15 ◼   ► - Right.

01:16:16 ◼   ► I mean, for most people,

01:16:20 ◼   ► a lot of this stuff should be in the cloud.

01:16:22 ◼   ► Other than the apps.

01:16:23 ◼   ► I mean, the apps are also in the cloud.

01:16:24 ◼   ► You just have to manually go into iTunes

01:16:27 ◼   ► and select which ones you want.

01:16:28 ◼   ► That's what I did.

01:16:31 ◼   ► I mean, into the App Store.

01:16:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:16:34 ◼   ► - I'm very happy with my decision to set up as a new iPhone

01:16:38 ◼   ► and I encourage all listeners to do the same.

01:16:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, it seems it's--

01:16:43 ◼   ► - Other than if you're gonna be very upset

01:16:44 ◼   ► about your Apple Watch data.

01:16:46 ◼   ► Why do I keep calling it the iWatch?

01:16:47 ◼   ► Should I just call it the iWatch?

01:16:48 ◼   ► - Didn't Tim Cook-- - Why would be like

01:16:50 ◼   ► that person that keeps calling it the iTouch?

01:16:53 ◼   ► - Tim Cook slipped and said iWatch

01:16:55 ◼   ► on one of the events this year.

01:16:56 ◼   ► I forget which one, but might have been like at WWDC.

01:16:59 ◼   ► But at some point earlier this year,

01:17:01 ◼   ► Tim Cook slipped and almost got the word

01:17:03 ◼   ► all the way out of his mouth before he corrected himself.

01:17:06 ◼   ► - It makes you wonder, were they gonna call it

01:17:08 ◼   ► the iWatch at some point?

01:17:11 ◼   ► - Probably. - Yeah, I suspect so.

01:17:13 ◼   ► - I mean, obviously we do it because that was like

01:17:15 ◼   ► what it was rumored to be called for so long.

01:17:18 ◼   ► - Right.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I think what happened is that there was a,

01:17:23 ◼   ► I think, well, who knows,

01:17:25 ◼   ► 'cause this is one of those things

01:17:27 ◼   ► where who knows who the people are,

01:17:29 ◼   ► but clearly there's a contingent within the company

01:17:33 ◼   ► that has won out that has decided

01:17:36 ◼   ► that the whole i-prefix thing is dated.

01:17:41 ◼   ► And maybe they were opposed to it all along, who knows,

01:17:44 ◼   ► and that it was a Steve Jobs thing.

01:17:45 ◼   ► Like, you know, one thing you know,

01:17:49 ◼   ► this is one of the things we miss

01:17:51 ◼   ► without Steve Jobs there, is that when Steve was there,

01:17:55 ◼   ► you knew with certain things like that

01:17:58 ◼   ► that he must have liked it.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Like, there's no possible way they would have used

01:18:02 ◼   ► that i-prefix for the iMac, the iPod, the iPad, the iPhone.

01:18:06 ◼   ► anything that had that eye prefix,

01:18:08 ◼   ► you know that Steve liked it,

01:18:10 ◼   ► because if he didn't,

01:18:11 ◼   ► there's no way they would have used it.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Whereas who it is that's made them decide

01:18:15 ◼   ► to get away from that, who knows?

01:18:18 ◼   ► Is it Schiller, is it Johnny Ive,

01:18:20 ◼   ► is it Schiller and Johnny Ive, who knows?

01:18:22 ◼   ► But somebody obviously doesn't like it anymore.

01:18:25 ◼   ► But I think that there must have been some people

01:18:27 ◼   ► who do like it and were like,

01:18:29 ◼   ► "Wait, that's what we're known for.

01:18:30 ◼   ► "People are already calling it the iWatch.

01:18:32 ◼   ► "We haven't even told them we're doing it yet."

01:18:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I think people like it. It's just, I don't like that I keep saying it, but it's

01:18:43 ◼   ► just like, that's what I call it.

01:18:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like the eye touch. There was no eye touch. There's never been an eye touch.

01:18:50 ◼   ► See, I never fell for that one.

01:18:53 ◼   ► I never called it that either. I mean, also, it's like that sounds wrong. I always thought

01:18:56 ◼   ► it sounded wrong.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I even write it. I say it all the time, and it's gotten better over the years, but

01:19:02 ◼   ► iPad is so close to iPod where I've had podcasts where I've been talking about the iPad and

01:19:09 ◼   ► just said iPod like 10 times and whoever's on the show with me is like, "You know you

01:19:14 ◼   ► keep saying iPod?"

01:19:15 ◼   ► And I'm like, "I do?"

01:19:18 ◼   ► It just is filed under the same cells in my brain and they're like, "My brain says, 'Close

01:19:26 ◼   ► enough.'"

01:19:27 ◼   ► It's a thing from Apple.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - The iPod Pro.

01:19:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:19:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, this actually reminds me, so like yesterday,

01:19:35 ◼   ► there's some internal email chain on our team and,

01:19:40 ◼   ► oh, I know, we got an email from a VR company

01:19:42 ◼   ► and they were basically like trying to take your music

01:19:44 ◼   ► and make it into a VR visualization.

01:19:46 ◼   ► And so it started talking about like,

01:19:48 ◼   ► oh, remember those visualizations in iTunes?

01:19:51 ◼   ► You know, the music visualization?

01:19:53 ◼   ► So turns out those are still there

01:19:55 ◼   ► because everything is still in iTunes.

01:19:57 ◼   ► And someone on our team went into iTunes

01:20:02 ◼   ► and found the UI quilt or whatever the icons are,

01:20:08 ◼   ► the .RSRC files, I'm pulling this up right now.

01:20:14 ◼   ► And you can see in there all the old,

01:20:17 ◼   ► like it has support still for all of the old iPods.

01:20:21 ◼   ► And it's amazing to look at.

01:20:24 ◼   ► I'll forward you this.

01:20:26 ◼   ► It has like, you know, all the way back to,

01:20:30 ◼   ► it's got the original, it's got the original Apple TV

01:20:33 ◼   ► in here, Shuffles, iPod Video, the U2 iPod.

01:20:38 ◼   ► It's great.

01:20:42 ◼   ► - The U2 iPod.

01:20:45 ◼   ► - Remember that?

01:20:46 ◼   ► It's a great U2 iPod.

01:20:47 ◼   ► - It was tremendous.

01:20:49 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Yeah, just tons, I mean, my guess is it's because

01:20:56 ◼   ► these are all still supported in iTunes.

01:20:58 ◼   ► Yeah, the first Apple TV is amazing.

01:21:02 ◼   ► - That's really crazy.

01:21:05 ◼   ► That's almost Microsoftian in terms of

01:21:08 ◼   ► backwards compatibility.

01:21:10 ◼   ► - I'll send you these, I think you should have access to it.

01:21:15 ◼   ► Maybe you wanna post them.

01:21:17 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:21:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're, and then they have like the little icons

01:21:20 ◼   ► we were looking for, we were wondering if the little

01:21:22 ◼   ► burn icon for burn to CD was still there.

01:21:26 ◼   ► And it's not there anymore.

01:21:28 ◼   ► - Boy, when's the last time they sold a machine

01:21:32 ◼   ► that could burn a CD?

01:21:34 ◼   ► That's been a couple of years.

01:21:36 ◼   ► - You still can burn it though in iTunes.

01:21:38 ◼   ► - Right, you just have to have a third party.

01:21:40 ◼   ► - If you have an external doc, yeah.

01:21:41 ◼   ► - Right.

01:21:42 ◼   ► All right, before we go too far into the weeds on iTunes,

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01:25:02 ◼   ► your mind Joanna? What else is on my mind? I really don't know what's on my mind right now.

01:25:14 ◼   ► I was talking about using the iPad mini. If you could only take one iPad with you on a trip,

01:25:22 ◼   ► which one would it be? Let's say you're going away for a week, you're gonna be away from home

01:25:28 ◼   ► for a week?

01:25:30 ◼   ► Well, I'm weird because I don't read on an iPad.

01:25:35 ◼   ► Like, I don't read books on an iPad.

01:25:37 ◼   ► So I have the Kindle Paperwhite, which I love.

01:25:41 ◼   ► So I would probably bring that Pro,

01:25:44 ◼   ► and I would try to not bring my Air.

01:25:46 ◼   ► I mean, am I going on vacation?

01:25:48 ◼   ► Where am I going?

01:25:49 ◼   ► That's probably actually what's really on my mind.

01:25:52 ◼   ► I'm going on vacation in a week and a half, and I can't wait.

01:25:55 ◼   ► All right, well then there you go.

01:25:56 ◼   ► I'm exhausted.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Which one are you going to take?

01:25:58 ◼   ► So it's not even hypothetical.

01:25:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm going to Cabo.

01:26:02 ◼   ► I'm going to probably bring,

01:26:06 ◼   ► I'll bring the Pro if I still have it

01:26:10 ◼   ► and I haven't sent it back.

01:26:13 ◼   ► I mean, I just don't think I would,

01:26:16 ◼   ► yeah, for watching Netflix or watching any downloaded movies

01:26:25 ◼   ► we did that as well.

01:26:26 ◼   ► I'm preferring it over the air that I bought two years ago.

01:26:31 ◼   ► Should I sell that?

01:26:36 ◼   ► Do you think I should sell that air?

01:26:37 ◼   ► Probably, right?

01:26:39 ◼   ► - I should sell all of this stuff.

01:26:40 ◼   ► I have so much stuff and I just keep it all

01:26:42 ◼   ► and just hoard it here in my office.

01:26:44 ◼   ► - You hoard it.

01:26:45 ◼   ► - And you know, by the time--

01:26:47 ◼   ► - So do I.

01:26:48 ◼   ► I mean, I don't sell, I did sell my iPhone 6.

01:26:51 ◼   ► I did it for a story, but I pretty much would have.

01:26:54 ◼   ► That's what I think I'm gonna be doing going forward.

01:26:56 ◼   ► I still haven't decided if I should go to get into the upgrade program.

01:26:59 ◼   ► Um, have you, have you, is that, are you on that plan?

01:27:03 ◼   ► No, I, I actually still own one of every iPhone ever made because I've bought

01:27:10 ◼   ► everyone for myself and, uh, I've kept them all.

01:27:14 ◼   ► In fact, I have more than one of everyone because I have some of Amy's as well.

01:27:18 ◼   ► Some are Amy's we've given away to like family members.

01:27:22 ◼   ► I don't think we've ever sold one, but we've given them away to people like her younger

01:27:28 ◼   ► sister and stuff like that.

01:27:31 ◼   ► She had one that she broke.

01:27:32 ◼   ► So we don't have two of everyone.

01:27:35 ◼   ► So I'm thinking about doing this basically my own upgrade plan.

01:27:40 ◼   ► Everyone else should be on the Joanna Stern upgrade plan where I basically buy the phone

01:27:44 ◼   ► outright, then hopefully sell it right before the event. Use an

01:27:52 ◼   ► old phone. Use that new money to buy the new phone. That's

01:27:59 ◼   ► basically what I sold my six, my 64 gig six, right before the

01:28:05 ◼   ► event for 520 something dollars on SWAPA. It was a good

01:28:11 ◼   ► experience. Way more money than you'd get on one of those

01:28:14 ◼   ► other sites. I got completely scammed on eBay, so I didn't use eBay.

01:28:19 ◼   ► You did get scammed on eBay?

01:28:20 ◼   ► Oh yeah, totally scammed on eBay.

01:28:22 ◼   ► Really? Tell me about that.

01:28:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I put it up for sale on eBay. The guy, of course, claiming to be from Nigeria. Well,

01:28:34 ◼   ► no, he didn't tell me he was from Nigeria. So the guy who buys it, it says he lives in

01:28:41 ◼   ► Boston and that he's buying the phone for $600. That's probably where I should have

01:28:46 ◼   ► been tipped off because it was like more than I had put it up for. And so he then, this

01:28:51 ◼   ► is actually hilarious because this was all for a story. I was basically just putting

01:28:54 ◼   ► it up there to test out eBay for a story. And they say he says he's in Boston. I'm like,

01:29:01 ◼   ► okay, he says, Oh, I can't send the money through eBay. Something's wrong with it. I

01:29:06 ◼   ► I need to send it through PayPal.

01:29:08 ◼   ► Okay, that's fine.

01:29:11 ◼   ► Then he says, oh, I can't send it through the right PayPal

01:29:15 ◼   ► because eBay doesn't own PayPal anymore.

01:29:17 ◼   ► I was like, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

01:29:21 ◼   ► - It is true, it's true, but it's not.

01:29:23 ◼   ► - It's true, but that doesn't have anything to do with any,

01:29:25 ◼   ► like whatever it is.

01:29:27 ◼   ► And then ultimately sends me a phishing PayPal email

01:29:31 ◼   ► that says he sent me the $600 through PayPal.

01:29:36 ◼   ► And there was no real transaction

01:29:39 ◼   ► that happened through PayPal or through eBay.

01:29:42 ◼   ► We just tried to--

01:29:44 ◼   ► - You didn't send him the phone though.

01:29:47 ◼   ► - No, no, and I don't think in the end,

01:29:49 ◼   ► I don't think he was actually after the phone.

01:29:51 ◼   ► I think he was after some sort of information

01:29:53 ◼   ► that I would have either clicked on

01:29:55 ◼   ► when I clicked on that PayPal phishing thing.

01:29:58 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, and then gave me a whole story like,

01:30:03 ◼   ► oh, instead send the phone to Nigeria

01:30:05 ◼   ► because my cousin is there and gave me a whole story about that. But I was actually I know

01:30:15 ◼   ► I can actually forward you the email says I let me see the PayPal. The really what actually

01:30:24 ◼   ► ended up happening, which was really I was very upset about from eBay was he had gotten

01:30:28 ◼   ► my phone number. Yeah, and that was that was where I, you know, the scam stuff happens

01:30:35 ◼   ► and you need to be on the lookout for weird PayPal spoofing email addresses.

01:30:41 ◼   ► His name is Stanley Bates.

01:30:45 ◼   ► In quotes.

01:30:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:47 ◼   ► Stanley Bates from Boston.

01:30:50 ◼   ► I knew obviously that something was really fishy when he wanted to send it through this

01:30:55 ◼   ► weird PayPal looking thing.

01:30:58 ◼   ► It looks pretty real to be honest, but the address says salesafety@usa.com.

01:31:03 ◼   ► - Right.

01:31:03 ◼   ► - Anyway, what I was really annoyed about was,

01:31:08 ◼   ► eBay has this loophole where,

01:31:10 ◼   ► after you've finished a transaction with someone

01:31:12 ◼   ► and bought something and said you're going to buy this item

01:31:16 ◼   ► or whatever and have the account,

01:31:18 ◼   ► there is a way using your listing number

01:31:21 ◼   ► that you can look up their phone number

01:31:23 ◼   ► and their email address.

01:31:25 ◼   ► So he had been, he texted me, yeah.

01:31:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was not happy about that.

01:31:32 ◼   ► But in the end, I sold my iPhone 6.

01:31:35 ◼   ► And then I used that money to buy a new iPhone 6s this past weekend.

01:31:39 ◼   ► And so who did you sell it to?

01:31:40 ◼   ► Swappa?

01:31:41 ◼   ► How do you spell that?

01:31:42 ◼   ► Yes, swappa.com.

01:31:43 ◼   ► S-W-A-P-P-A.

01:31:44 ◼   ► Yeah, this was all first story.

01:31:49 ◼   ► It was right before the iPhone event.

01:31:51 ◼   ► I wrote a piece about the best ways to sell your phone.

01:31:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:31:55 ◼   ► But it...

01:31:56 ◼   ► I mean, obviously introducing a middleman, definitely, you know, they're in business.

01:32:02 ◼   ► So you're selling to them for less than what they're going to resell it for.

01:32:07 ◼   ► And then in theory, if you could sell this is like the whole spirit of eBay.

01:32:11 ◼   ► In theory, if you could just find the person who wanted to buy it, you could sell it to

01:32:15 ◼   ► them for some price in between and make money.

01:32:18 ◼   ► I'll send you the article that swap is, is a marketplace, an open marketplace.

01:32:23 ◼   ► So you are selling to another person.

01:32:26 ◼   ► Oh, really?

01:32:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:32:28 ◼   ► Exactly. The middleman options like Gazelle or you you sell or

01:32:33 ◼   ► what are the many other ones next worth or I cracked, they

01:32:37 ◼   ► won't give you as good of a value as an eBay or an Amazon

01:32:41 ◼   ► marketplace or swap.

01:32:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm not familiar with that because I just hoard all of mine.

01:32:46 ◼   ► Right. Like in like an idiot.

01:32:48 ◼   ► I had a great experience with swap. Actually, it was I had

01:32:51 ◼   ► said on the listing that I would prefer it with someone in New

01:32:54 ◼   ► York City and found a guy and we met in a very public place in New York and he bought

01:33:00 ◼   ► the phone right there. Not a legit guy, not Stanley Bates from Africa.

01:33:07 ◼   ► So if you met in person, was the transaction still digital though? Where like he...

01:33:12 ◼   ► Yeah, he had sent the money on PayPal before. Legit, I saw it clear in my PayPal account.

01:33:18 ◼   ► Right.

01:33:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:33:20 ◼   ► That sounds great.

01:33:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, you know, and like that's what this year, you know, I think back on like,

01:33:27 ◼   ► what were some of the big themes of the year, you know, in smartphones, I just did this

01:33:32 ◼   ► buying guide, and it was like, all phones became great.

01:33:36 ◼   ► Most, you know, most of these Android phones are great now.

01:33:40 ◼   ► You know, the iPhone became even better.

01:33:43 ◼   ► And the biggest deal was like how we buy our phones through carriers now, right carriers

01:33:48 ◼   ► decided, screw these contracts.

01:33:54 ◼   ► Whether people really start upgrading their phones more frequently, I'm not so sure.

01:33:59 ◼   ► It's still not the easiest thing to navigate those deals.

01:34:04 ◼   ► Certainly Apple's program seems like the best of them all.

01:34:08 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, how we buy and pay the carriers was certainly a big change of 2015.

01:34:16 ◼   ► I mean, I'm still with Verizon because I still think I get the best service with them.

01:34:28 ◼   ► But I'm happy to say I won't be in a contract with them soon.

01:34:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm out of I've not been in a contract with them for a while.

01:34:36 ◼   ► That was the decision.

01:34:37 ◼   ► I made this decision like a year.

01:34:39 ◼   ► Was it a year ago?

01:34:40 ◼   ► Or two years ago?

01:34:41 ◼   ► I forget when but no, I think it was a year ago.

01:34:46 ◼   ► But we stopped buying phones on contract even when we had the option to do it.

01:34:53 ◼   ► Pay the whole price and we will pay you.

01:34:56 ◼   ► We have a family plan with Verizon.

01:34:58 ◼   ► We'll just pay that and just keep it all on the up and up and pay up front.

01:35:04 ◼   ► I'm still in the... because I'm in a family plan and we signed it when the 6 came out.

01:35:10 ◼   ► So I'm still stuck in that contract.

01:35:15 ◼   ► which then hopefully we can go to these new bucket data plans and be better.

01:35:22 ◼   ► Do you get good Verizon signal at the journal's office?

01:35:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I get pretty good signal for all in the office here. I'm on the sixth floor.

01:35:36 ◼   ► When I'm in New York, I find that it is a block-by-block crapshoot

01:35:42 ◼   ► whether I have cell signal and this is with my Verizon phone.

01:35:45 ◼   ► And didn't that didn't used to be the case. Maybe it's just the

01:35:48 ◼   ► places in Midtown where I tend to be I don't know. But it's

01:35:52 ◼   ► it's not necessarily bad. Like like the way that AT&T used used

01:35:56 ◼   ► to be right horrendous in New York. I mean, like truly

01:35:59 ◼   ► unusable. Like can't believe can't believe this. Anybody

01:36:03 ◼   ► even gets by with this service, which I don't think is true

01:36:06 ◼   ► anymore. But it's not like that. But it's definitely not like it

01:36:10 ◼   ► is for me here in Philadelphia. In Philadelphia, I get pretty

01:36:12 ◼   ► strong signal almost everywhere.

01:36:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, the thing I've noticed about Verizon is maybe I

01:36:19 ◼   ► don't have as many bars everywhere, like as many bars as

01:36:22 ◼   ► I'd probably have with AT&T. But I get like better service and

01:36:27 ◼   ► pockets where there usually isn't service. So like in the

01:36:29 ◼   ► elevator, I always get service in my building with Verizon, it

01:36:32 ◼   ► always drops with AT&T. And also on the subways here on my subway

01:36:38 ◼   ► route to work, I have Verizon service and not always AT&T.

01:36:41 ◼   ► Oh, see that's different here in Philly.

01:36:44 ◼   ► In Philly, I think AT&T bribed somebody and has exclusive cell service in the subway.

01:36:50 ◼   ► Oh, really?

01:36:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:36:52 ◼   ► So you guys have-

01:36:53 ◼   ► They even have the subway.

01:36:54 ◼   ► I don't even know how.

01:36:55 ◼   ► I've never even heard of such a thing, but in Philadelphia, the sports complexes where

01:37:01 ◼   ► you'd go see the Phillies or the Eagles or the Sixers and Flyers, they're all right next

01:37:06 ◼   ► to each other.

01:37:07 ◼   ► and it's way down in South Philly at the end of the line.

01:37:11 ◼   ► You can't go, you just ride the subway south

01:37:14 ◼   ► and at the last stop you get out.

01:37:16 ◼   ► And that subway station is named like AT&T station.

01:37:20 ◼   ► So like-- - That makes sense.

01:37:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I think that part of the deal--

01:37:24 ◼   ► - Isn't that the same where the Giants play

01:37:26 ◼   ► in San Francisco, what's the name of that stadium?

01:37:29 ◼   ► - Levi's Stadium.

01:37:31 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, oh no, that's the 49ers.

01:37:35 ◼   ► The Giants play at AT&T--

01:37:37 ◼   ► - AT&T Park, yeah. - AT Park, right?

01:37:40 ◼   ► - I wonder if it's the same there.

01:37:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, I wonder if they have exclusive cell towers

01:37:45 ◼   ► in the stadium, I don't know.

01:37:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

01:37:51 ◼   ► We're gonna deal with the 5G,

01:37:53 ◼   ► the competition for 5G next, so.

01:37:55 ◼   ► - When do you think that's coming?

01:37:58 ◼   ► - I don't think so. - I don't pay attention

01:37:59 ◼   ► to stuff like that.

01:38:00 ◼   ► - I thought they've been saying 2016,

01:38:03 ◼   ► some of the tests are gonna happen,

01:38:07 ◼   ► I think Verizon's been saying tests happening in 2016.

01:38:12 ◼   ► Oh God.

01:38:16 ◼   ► Yeah, you know, these things happen in waves.

01:38:20 ◼   ► It's gonna be, it'll be another fun year of more stuff

01:38:24 ◼   ► that is promised the next year.

01:38:27 ◼   ► - Let me take one break before we wrap up the show

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01:41:13 ◼   ► Did you see that the Zuckerbergs announced

01:41:18 ◼   ► that they're gonna give away 99% of their fortune?

01:41:22 ◼   ► - I did, I did.

01:41:24 ◼   ► I'm looking at, I was actually just looking at that article

01:41:26 ◼   ► just because the baby picture.

01:41:27 ◼   ► I was really just looking at the baby picture.

01:41:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, they announced it coinciding with the birth

01:41:34 ◼   ► of their first child, it's a daughter's,

01:41:37 ◼   ► and it is an adorable picture.

01:41:39 ◼   ► I'm a sucker for babies.

01:41:40 ◼   ► - I know, me too.

01:41:41 ◼   ► And I like the name too, Max, for a girl.

01:41:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:41:46 ◼   ► And so they've announced in a letter to their daughter

01:41:52 ◼   ► that they will be giving away 99% of their fortune,

01:41:55 ◼   ► which is very noble.

01:41:57 ◼   ► I know like the Gates, the Gates is I think,

01:41:59 ◼   ► have pledged to give away 95% of their fortune.

01:42:03 ◼   ► And I know that the Gates Foundation

01:42:04 ◼   ► already has like $41 billion.

01:42:07 ◼   ► They've already given an enormous amount of money

01:42:10 ◼   ► to fund their foundation.

01:42:11 ◼   ► - 'Cause he's saying over his lifetime.

01:42:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think, and at the start,

01:42:16 ◼   ► he's saying he's going to give up to

01:42:18 ◼   ► or donate up to a billion dollars