The Talk Show

137: ‘Peak Rumor Season’ With John Moltz


00:00:00   We've got rumors to talk about I love rumors. I know this is you know what I was thinking about

00:00:04   I think this is sort of like I think this is the the the fall season here the you know, November December

00:00:11   this is like peak rumor season because

00:00:14   Nothing's coming out soon. Mm-hmm, but there are you know, Apple must be working on stuff for next year and beyond

00:00:20   And so now is the time when the rumors start coming out

00:00:24   The big one that I've seen the one that's got everybody in a tizzy

00:00:28   is you know which one it is right yes I do which one is it it's the the

00:00:34   headphone jack thing exactly right that the mini is a mini jack right yeah so

00:00:45   the standard 3.5 millimeter headphone jack that's been in every device that

00:00:50   I'm aware of for a long time is supposedly says one report who had it

00:01:00   originally here let's see it was a Japanese rumor site right at some chapter

00:01:04   of well not a rumor site but well I guess yeah so Mac rumors right it's Mac

00:01:14   Odakara, which MacRumors described as often reliable.

00:01:22   Often. Well, in the scheme of like publishing these things from the supply

00:01:28   chain in Asia, often reliable, if you say it with a straight face, is actually high

00:01:33   praise. High praise, right. But it was not sourced from DigiTimes, right?

00:01:41   No, it's their... So they didn't get it from DigiTimes? No, their report cited a

00:01:47   "reliable source." Okay. And I guess... So it says... Here's Mac

00:01:54   Rumor's translation of it, or interpretation, I guess I should say. The

00:01:59   report citing a "reliable source"

00:02:02   claims the new same-sized Lightning connector will support Lightning-equipped

00:02:06   and Bluetooth headphones and have a DAC, or a digital to audio converter, for backwards

00:02:14   compatibility with wired headphones using a standard 3.5mm stereo jack. A 3.5mm to lightning

00:02:26   adapter would be required. So I guess the gist of it, the way I interpret this, and

00:02:33   And I don't think it's entirely clear.

00:02:34   The way I just interpret it is that they're not replacing the headphone jack with a new

00:02:40   proprietary jack.

00:02:41   They are simply getting rid of the headphone jack and you'll just have to plug in to the

00:02:45   lightning adapter that's already there.

00:02:49   Or use Bluetooth.

00:02:52   Or use Bluetooth.

00:02:53   I don't see why this report says that the new lightning connector has anything to do

00:02:58   with Bluetooth, though.

00:03:01   Doesn't seem like that makes sense.

00:03:02   No, yeah.

00:03:03   I think that's a mistake. That's what I mean about it being a little confusing.

00:03:06   I think what they mean is that you will, you know, your options will be to either plug in headphones with a lightning connector,

00:03:13   A. B. use a new dongle that doesn't exist yet that'll be a, you'll stick it in the lightning port and then you'll stick regular headphones into this dongle.

00:03:24   Or C. you'll switch to Bluetooth headphones.

00:03:28   or D, you'll throw your phone in the river and go back to Blackberry.

00:03:37   I guess the other option would be to...

00:03:41   This would be a great time for Blackberry to come out and proclaim their support for the 3.5mm jack.

00:03:48   (laughs)

00:03:50   Another option, and I love it, I really do,

00:03:53   I deeply enjoy it when other people's small children

00:03:56   do this on, let's say, a train or something,

00:03:58   is you could just use the speakers on the device.

00:04:01   (laughs)

00:04:03   - That's perfect.

00:04:04   - Pumped up to a loud enough volume to, you know,

00:04:08   overtake the sound of the train or the--

00:04:10   - The train.

00:04:11   - Or the jet airliner that you're riding on.

00:04:13   (laughs)

00:04:15   Who needs headphones?

00:04:17   I know. So, but the whole, I mean, the whole thing, so this, this is portrayed as, which,

00:04:23   you know, well, first of all, the, the, this is not the first time we've heard this.

00:04:27   No.

00:04:28   This rumor.

00:04:29   Well, and I think this, this flow has floated also right before the, the iPhone 6, if I

00:04:35   remember correctly.

00:04:36   I think it started, it started though when Lightning debuted, because Lightning has always

00:04:42   supported audio. And you can buy, they exist today. In fact, there's a pair of Philips

00:04:49   ones here in the screenshot that MacRumors has. You can buy Lightning connector headphones

00:04:55   today. The existing Lightning port can support audio, so you can do that right now today.

00:05:00   That's not a new thing.

00:05:03   So in terms of what they're saying about this so-called iPhone 7 having a new next generation

00:05:09   and lightning jack, the female side,

00:05:13   would be that it includes a digital audio converter.

00:05:20   I don't know though why the dongle

00:05:22   wouldn't do the digital audio conversion.

00:05:25   But anyway, that's what they're saying.

00:05:26   So I think right now, and I could be wrong,

00:05:29   I could be definitely wrong about this.

00:05:31   This could be something that maybe the dongle would work

00:05:33   on our existing iPhones.

00:05:34   But I think what they're saying is that

00:05:37   to use standard headphones through the dongle

00:05:40   and the lightning would require this iPhone 7 lightning port

00:05:44   because it would include the digital audio converter inside.

00:05:47   - Okay.

00:05:48   - But otherwise I don't think any of this is new.

00:05:51   You know, the fact that lightning can handle audio

00:05:53   is definitely not new.

00:05:54   You can buy these headphones today

00:05:56   and use them on your phone today.

00:05:57   And the rumors started as soon as that became clear.

00:06:00   'Cause why else would they do it

00:06:03   unless they plan to get rid of the 3.5 at some point?

00:06:07   Yeah. There was also a smaller jack than the 3.5 millimeter jack that used to be used in

00:06:16   Japan for years, because I remember I bought, when I was in Japan, I accidentally bought

00:06:22   a pair of headphones and took them home and went to put them on my walkman or whatever

00:06:28   it was. And I was like, "This is not right." But I think the reason it was exactly like

00:06:37   that though was that was for smaller so the smaller devices there's so many

00:06:44   jokes that I can't think of no I can't I can't think it's good I can't glad I

00:06:51   can't think of any jokes stem from this no there's nothing there's nothing to be

00:06:57   said well anyway people are some people are very very upset about this they are

00:07:04   and however much controversy there was

00:07:09   when Apple switched from the 30-pin dock connector

00:07:12   to the Lightning adapter,

00:07:16   and people accused Apple of doing this

00:07:19   just to get people to buy more cables.

00:07:22   It was a money grab.

00:07:24   This is the accusation, that it was a money grab.

00:07:26   And I think you and I have talked about this multiple times,

00:07:28   that it was a money grab,

00:07:30   and they wanted to sell new cables,

00:07:33   They wanted you to buy new docks.

00:07:34   They wanted you to buy their little, I think it was $19,

00:07:38   just the little adapter that lets you switch

00:07:41   a 30-pin thing into a lightning thing.

00:07:44   I think it was 19.

00:07:45   - Was it that much or was that the headphone price?

00:07:47   - No, yeah, that's probably right.

00:07:49   That's probably right.

00:07:50   - Although maybe it was 29.

00:07:51   - The headphones are something like 30.

00:07:53   - Yeah.

00:07:54   And I laugh about this.

00:07:59   I laugh that people are upset.

00:08:01   But I understand the frustration.

00:08:03   I just laugh at how hard people take this.

00:08:07   - Well, yeah, so the thing that it's portrayed as

00:08:11   a trade-off for is getting a thinner iPhone, right?

00:08:15   - Yeah.

00:08:16   - Then that's the only, so it, and everyone says,

00:08:20   I don't want a thinner iPhone, which,

00:08:23   I mean, I don't feel like I need a thinner iPhone,

00:08:29   but in fairness, you haven't seen a thinner iPhone yet.

00:08:32   - No.

00:08:33   you might really like a thinner iPhone.

00:08:35   - Well, and as, oh man, here it is.

00:08:38   So I looked it up on the store.apple.com.

00:08:40   The lightning to 30-pin adapter, not a cable,

00:08:43   just the little adapter.

00:08:44   Right now it sells for $29.

00:08:46   So I think it's, maybe it's always been $29.

00:08:48   - Yeah.

00:08:49   - And the lightning to 30-pin adapter

00:08:56   that's more of a cable is $39.

00:09:01   It's got a 0.2 meter cable.

00:09:04   So it's a rather, like a 20 centimeter cable.

00:09:09   And that's $39.

00:09:11   (laughing)

00:09:16   I do get the frustration there.

00:09:18   It does seem to me, it seems very clear to me,

00:09:21   and it just seems funny that it always comes up

00:09:24   when you're on the show, that there's a sort of aspect

00:09:26   of let's spend Tim Cook's money.

00:09:31   that these things should be cheaper,

00:09:33   and that whatever money they make from them,

00:09:36   they would gain in goodwill by making them,

00:09:40   if not giving them away,

00:09:42   coming as close to giving them away as they can.

00:09:44   That if they sold them, it cost,

00:09:46   and presumably it costs a lot less than $29

00:09:49   to make this dongle.

00:09:50   They would make up for it in goodwill.

00:09:54   - Right.

00:09:57   - Is that true? - They're not interested.

00:09:57   They're not interested in that.

00:09:59   Well, I think it would be, it would be, it would make the pill easier to swallow.

00:10:04   It, I, you know, I don't know that people would be completely,

00:10:08   'cause if you're, if you're heavily invested in, in that jack, and I think, you know, I mean, I think some people are.

00:10:14   I'm not, I wouldn't say that I am particularly. I do have many headphones that I wear with that jack,

00:10:21   but I mostly use them for podcasting, and, and so I'm plugging them into a microphone,

00:10:26   instead of plugging it into my iPhone.

00:10:30   And I mostly, and I'm, you know, I'm not an audiophile,

00:10:36   so I mostly use Apple's headphones

00:10:39   when I'm using my iPhone.

00:10:41   And then I also have a pair of Bluetooth headphones

00:10:45   that I use for exercising.

00:10:47   So it wouldn't really change my life that much.

00:10:50   - I just find it a fun thing to talk about on the show

00:10:55   because it's such a petty little thing

00:11:00   in the grand scheme of things, if you really think about it.

00:11:03   It's just not that big a deal in the life of an iPhone user.

00:11:09   But there's so many implications of a change like this

00:11:13   that it makes it fun to think about the trade-offs on Apple's

00:11:16   part.

00:11:18   So let's tackle some more of these implications

00:11:20   of the audio jack.

00:11:23   So one of them, like you said, the idea

00:11:25   would be that Apple would be motivated to do this,

00:11:29   because it would allow them to make the device thinner.

00:11:32   That at this point, 3.5 millimeters,

00:11:34   just for the port alone, is significant.

00:11:39   You know, it's a constraint, given

00:11:42   how the millimeter thickness of these devices.

00:11:45   Now, obviously, there's existence proof

00:11:47   that they can make thinner devices that still

00:11:49   have that port.

00:11:50   Like the iPod Touch, the current generation iPod Touch,

00:11:53   is like a full millimeter thinner than the iPhone 6S.

00:11:58   - Is it really?

00:12:00   - Yeah.

00:12:01   - Okay, actually I have them both here,

00:12:03   but they're in cases.

00:12:04   - Or almost so.

00:12:05   It's like the iPhone 6S is like 6.9 millimeters

00:12:09   and the iPod Touch is like 6.1.

00:12:11   And still has a standard audio port.

00:12:16   And the iPod Nano is even thinner still

00:12:23   and still has the regular audio port.

00:12:28   But as some people on Twitter have pointed out,

00:12:31   if you look at the iPod Nano, the length it takes,

00:12:36   the depth that the headphone jack has

00:12:39   to go into the port to fit, it doesn't actually

00:12:43   go underneath the screen at all.

00:12:44   There's a chin.

00:12:46   So it's not like it also has to fit underneath the screen,

00:12:50   where I think it does on the iPhone.

00:12:52   So thinness is definitely certainly one of the angles.

00:12:56   I don't think it means that they couldn't make

00:12:58   an iPhone 7 that's thinner and keep the jack though.

00:13:02   It just probably makes it easier

00:13:04   because it's one last thing to put in.

00:13:05   And I think that the depth of the jack

00:13:08   is actually more of a problem than the thickness of it.

00:13:10   The fact that the standard audio port has to go so far in.

00:13:14   God, this show could be torn apart

00:13:20   to create a political attack ad against me.

00:13:22   Here's another one.

00:13:30   What do you think would happen if they said,

00:13:32   we're taking out the audio jack because we

00:13:37   want to put more battery in?

00:13:40   That would be an interesting thing for them to say.

00:13:42   So we took out the audio jack, and you'll

00:13:46   get another hour and a half of battery.

00:13:50   - That would be interesting.

00:13:52   It would be an interesting way to justify it.

00:13:54   - Instead of saying it's gonna be even thinner.

00:13:57   - Right, because saying that it's even thinner

00:13:58   really only seems to satisfy Apple's internal obsession

00:14:03   with device thinness.

00:14:05   And it could well be that it's more than just

00:14:09   the taste of Johnny Ive and his team

00:14:13   and whoever else is there that they want these devices,

00:14:15   that they value thinness over the battery life

00:14:18   that could be gained by just making the device thicker

00:14:21   or keeping it the thinness of the,

00:14:24   instead of making it as thin as they possibly can

00:14:27   to get the same battery life as the previous generation,

00:14:29   what if they kept the same thickness

00:14:31   as the device thickness as the previous generation

00:14:36   but used their newfound ability to miniaturize

00:14:39   and thin things to just create more room for a battery?

00:14:42   Right, that's the thing that some people,

00:14:45   a lot of people seem to want Apple to do.

00:14:47   It could well be that Apple has internal marketing

00:14:50   like data, like, you know, that suggests, if not proves,

00:14:57   that given the choice in a store,

00:15:00   people will choose the thinner device.

00:15:02   And that there might be, as much as many of us think

00:15:05   that people would be happier with the thicker device

00:15:09   that gets longer battery life,

00:15:10   Apple might have some knowledge to know

00:15:12   that at the point of sale,

00:15:14   people are gonna buy the thinner one.

00:15:16   And it would expose them to--

00:15:18   - I wouldn't be, yeah.

00:15:19   I wouldn't be surprised by that really

00:15:21   because I don't think it's like,

00:15:23   it's not like this for me anymore

00:15:24   but that used to be the one thing

00:15:26   when I looked at years ago when I looked at Android phones,

00:15:28   I thought, wow, it would be really cool

00:15:30   to have a phone that was that thin.

00:15:32   - Samsung has one, it's one of the galaxies.

00:15:36   It's not the flagship 'cause the flagship one

00:15:37   has higher specs and can't be that thin.

00:15:40   But there's one of the current Galaxy phones,

00:15:42   Somebody, I saw somebody claim is only 5.9 millimeters.

00:15:46   So Samsung's in a race for thinness too.

00:15:49   And don't forget that these are the sort of decisions

00:15:52   that when Apple makes now for next year,

00:15:54   if they stick to the current plan

00:15:57   of using the same hardware for two years,

00:15:59   basic hardware profile for two years,

00:16:02   with a seven next year and then a seven S

00:16:05   the year after that,

00:16:06   that if they make a mistake here and go thicker

00:16:11   and Samsung goes way thinner and it proves to be a hit,

00:16:15   they could be the same sort of thing that happened

00:16:16   with larger screen sizes a few years ago

00:16:19   where larger screen sizes clearly were selling phones.

00:16:24   And there was even, it is one of those rare things

00:16:27   that we have proof of because it came out

00:16:29   in the court case, one of the court cases was Samsung

00:16:33   where there was like an email,

00:16:34   I think might have even been from Schiller himself,

00:16:36   but it was certainly from somebody on Schiller's team.

00:16:39   There was an internal email at Apple

00:16:40   that said some people want what we don't have,

00:16:45   larger screen phones.

00:16:47   And they can't just scramble and, you know,

00:16:53   come out with a new phone next month with a bigger screen.

00:16:55   These things are, you know, have two year lead times,

00:16:59   maybe even longer.

00:17:00   So if Apple thinks or maybe even knows

00:17:05   that thinness sells and they certainly know

00:17:07   that Samsung is capable of making devices

00:17:10   that are thin, if not other companies too,

00:17:13   they may not wanna do this.

00:17:16   Even if they also know that customer satisfaction-wise,

00:17:20   after they've already purchased a phone,

00:17:22   if it had the longer battery life of a thicker thing,

00:17:25   people would be happier.

00:17:26   - Yeah, it is strange though to see lots of people saying

00:17:33   that they don't want something that,

00:17:37   I mean, obviously this is presented as,

00:17:39   no, you gotta get rid of this in order to get that.

00:17:41   If they came out and just said it was gonna be

00:17:42   a thinner phone, you'd probably get

00:17:44   a slightly different reaction

00:17:45   without the, you're gonna lose the headphone jack.

00:17:48   But it seems like it used to be like,

00:17:52   here are the things that, you know,

00:17:54   seems like they might be coming in the next iPhone

00:17:56   and everyone would be pretty excited about those things

00:17:59   with the exception of lighting.

00:18:01   - Yeah.

00:18:02   - And I feel like, like I feel like I don't,

00:18:05   I don't necessarily, I don't feel like I'm that excited

00:18:07   about a thinner phone at this point.

00:18:09   and we've had this discussion before too,

00:18:12   I would rather have a smaller phone.

00:18:14   - Yeah, it may not just be about thinness though.

00:18:16   So I say it could be, it could help,

00:18:19   and maybe it would help with battery life too.

00:18:21   But there are other factors too.

00:18:23   Like even if you could just concede for the moment

00:18:26   that they could go as thin as they want to

00:18:28   and still keep the other jack.

00:18:29   That whatever thinness they're planning for

00:18:32   for the iPhone 7, it could accommodate

00:18:34   a 3.5 millimeter headphone jack.

00:18:36   I don't know if that's true or not,

00:18:37   but let's just concede it for the moment.

00:18:39   It's also another point of potential water damage.

00:18:44   One less port is one lens, one less thing

00:18:48   to have to try to protect against water getting in there.

00:18:55   Having two ports definitely takes more space

00:19:00   inside the device than one port that does both things.

00:19:06   that's just like a obvious fact.

00:19:08   So in other ways, other than thinness,

00:19:10   it might, like you said, batteries, one life,

00:19:12   who knows what else they could use that space for,

00:19:15   but they could certainly, they certainly take advantage

00:19:17   of every bit of space that they can.

00:19:19   - Yeah.

00:19:20   - I don't know.

00:19:25   - The problem is like, is charging.

00:19:26   I mean, everybody's, you know,

00:19:27   - Right. - worked this out already,

00:19:28   but like when you're, and I do this,

00:19:30   I do this sometimes where I put the headphones in

00:19:32   and I'm charging while I'm at my desk

00:19:33   and listening to something.

00:19:35   and having to find a dongle and nobody really wants a dongle.

00:19:45   Like a Y-adapter dongle.

00:19:47   Yeah.

00:19:48   The idea would be that even if you're on board--

00:19:51   on the one hand, if you want to stick

00:19:52   with your beloved old pair of headphones that

00:19:56   has a 3.5-millimeter jack, then you

00:19:59   need a dongle to go 3.5 to lightning.

00:20:05   And it can't be a tiny little dongle,

00:20:07   because we know how long the adapter is on the headphones.

00:20:13   And I'm looking at it right now.

00:20:16   Yeah, at a minimum, it's at least, what, half an inch?

00:20:23   Not that small.

00:20:24   So you've got this thing sticking out

00:20:26   of your phone plus the actual cable itself

00:20:28   from the headphone that sticks out from the phone.

00:20:30   So it's, you know, cumbersome.

00:20:33   But even if you're willing to go on board

00:20:35   with a new pair of lightning headphones,

00:20:38   which presumably Apple would ship with the device

00:20:40   and other companies are already making,

00:20:43   if you wanna charge and use those at the same times,

00:20:45   you'd still need an adapter

00:20:46   so that you could have two lightning inputs,

00:20:48   one for charging, one for the headphone.

00:20:51   And I'm not even sure if that would work.

00:20:53   - Yeah, unless you have inductive charging.

00:20:57   - Right, and I fully concede.

00:21:00   One of the things, this is just one of those things

00:21:01   where I just like to sit here and think about it

00:21:04   from Apple's perspective, and I don't really have

00:21:07   strong feelings one way or the other.

00:21:08   Like me trying to justify it and thinking of the reasons

00:21:11   Apple might wanna do it isn't me saying

00:21:13   I think this is a great idea.

00:21:15   I'm not sure, I think it's interesting

00:21:18   'cause there's so many trade-offs,

00:21:19   but the needing to charge or wanting to charge

00:21:23   while you listen with headphones

00:21:24   is absolutely, positively a real thing.

00:21:26   I see my son doing it all the time.

00:21:28   His devices seem to all live in the--

00:21:32   like the best charge they ever seem to get

00:21:34   puts him in the yellow.

00:21:35   [LAUGHTER]

00:21:38   Yeah, I think Hank is similar.

00:21:41   I mean, so even just since this rumor popped up,

00:21:44   I've spotted Jonas at least twice using his--

00:21:48   I think it was both times it was his iPad--

00:21:50   but using his iPad with headphones,

00:21:52   watching video while it was charging.

00:21:55   So I fully concede that is not just something people want to do.

00:22:00   It's something people like my son would have to do other than to stare at a black iPhone.

00:22:05   Just let it go out.

00:22:06   Yeah, just stare at the black screen of a dead iPad.

00:22:10   So I don't know how Apple solves it.

00:22:12   Maybe the answer is, of course, that they don't and that this whole story is bullshit

00:22:16   and that they're not getting rid of the separate jack.

00:22:18   Well, that's the other thing that's kind of ridiculous about the whole thing

00:22:22   is it has really been widely discussed

00:22:26   and it is all based off this one.

00:22:29   - Right.

00:22:30   - This one source.

00:22:31   - Like so inside Apple, there's somebody, you know,

00:22:34   some team that clearly already knows the answer to this.

00:22:37   I think that this is one of those decisions

00:22:39   that's already been made.

00:22:41   And they're either, they're laughing one way or the other.

00:22:45   (laughing)

00:22:46   Either way, they're laughing.

00:22:48   Like if there is an iPhone,

00:22:50   If there is a regular, good old fashioned 3.5 millimeter

00:22:54   headphone jack on the iPhone 7 next year,

00:22:56   the team inside Apple is laughing at all of the thought

00:22:59   that we're all putting into this and all the consternation

00:23:02   out there on the web.

00:23:03   And if there's not, they're at least

00:23:05   chuckling at the people who are saying,

00:23:07   there's no way they would do this.

00:23:09   It would make everybody too furious.

00:23:10   Yeah, they're no stranger to controversy.

00:23:17   So I don't think--

00:23:19   It's funny though, because it is clearly controversial.

00:23:22   And it's like there's something about Apple that makes them--

00:23:25   one of the ways that Apple is clearly

00:23:27   different than other companies.

00:23:28   Is they're the only company whoever

00:23:30   seems to face these things?

00:23:31   I never see-- for one thing, other companies

00:23:36   tend to keep legacy ports around almost as long as they can.

00:23:40   As opposed to looking for a way to get rid of legacy ports,

00:23:43   they look for a way to keep them going as long as they can.

00:23:47   Yeah, it's like they don't want to lose that one extra sale.

00:23:50   And then even when they do, I don't know

00:23:52   how they escape the criticism.

00:23:54   Like, Android phones-- iPhones have gone from--

00:23:59   and for the sake of an argument, if you just

00:24:02   count the iPod as a sibling predecessor to the iPhone,

00:24:08   they've gone through two ports ever,

00:24:11   30-pin, starting with the original iPod, to--

00:24:16   Nope, the first one had FireWire.

00:24:18   Right, so it was the same on the 30 pin end,

00:24:22   but it was only FireWire on the other end.

00:24:24   But you needed a new cable, so we'll call that--

00:24:28   Wait, wait.

00:24:29   No, it was a--

00:24:30   No, the original iPod was FireWire on both ends.

00:24:34   Oh my god, you're right.

00:24:35   Yeah, you are right.

00:24:36   Yeah.

00:24:36   I'm totally wrong on that.

00:24:38   So there are-- all right, so here's

00:24:39   the changes they've gone through,

00:24:41   including all the iPods.

00:24:43   The first one was FireWire, FireWire.

00:24:45   Then they went 30 pin to FireWire,

00:24:48   and then it was 30 pin to USB.

00:24:51   But if you just made like a clock radio that

00:24:53   had the 30 pin thing, it would work with whatever your iPod

00:24:57   was, and then lightning.

00:25:00   Other devices, the ones that just use like USB,

00:25:02   went through--

00:25:03   I forget the names of them, but there's

00:25:05   like sort of the thicker mini USB.

00:25:09   Then there's the thinner new micro USB.

00:25:12   It was like there was like mini USB, micro USB,

00:25:15   now USB-C, which is nice because it's like lightning and you can't put it in upside down.

00:25:20   It works both directions. For some reason when they switch, they don't get the controversy.

00:25:26   Yeah. That always used to make me laugh because people on the Android side would make fun

00:25:31   of Apple for like, "Oh, your ports match." And I was like, "Yeah, 100 years."

00:25:38   And it's like I know some people are saying that would say, "Well, no, but Apple is the

00:25:43   the only one who tries to gouge you for $29 for an adapter.

00:25:48   But in short order, you can go to Amazon or Monoprice,

00:25:56   for example, and get a high quality adapter that's

00:25:59   not made by Apple for a reasonable price.

00:26:01   So I mean, you can make the transition.

00:26:03   And those are the only places that people on Android

00:26:07   buy cables and stuff like that.

00:26:09   So the fact that Apple's first party adapters and dongles

00:26:13   are seemingly exorbitantly priced.

00:26:16   It doesn't really make things worse

00:26:18   for anybody who's sensitive to that

00:26:19   and just goes to Amazon.

00:26:21   I mean, it's not like Amazon is some obscure company

00:26:23   that nobody's heard of.

00:26:24   (laughing)

00:26:26   - It might be slightly cheaper to get USB adapters.

00:26:33   - Might be.

00:26:34   - Because the other ones, I mean, the other ones,

00:26:36   somebody has to license from Apple, right?

00:26:38   They have to license one end from Apple.

00:26:40   - Right, but there's other--

00:26:41   - It still gets down to the point where it's,

00:26:43   okay, we're still talking about like 10 bucks.

00:26:46   - There's other hassles involved though,

00:26:48   and they're all reasonable.

00:26:49   I mean, these are all reasonable complaints.

00:26:51   They're actual truth, the actual truth, they're obvious.

00:26:54   But the problem where,

00:26:56   like in a two-person household,

00:27:01   where Person A has,

00:27:05   or at one point, you both have phones

00:27:07   with the same port on it,

00:27:08   and then one of you upgrades to a new one

00:27:10   and it has a different port.

00:27:11   And now all the various places, like in that kitchen

00:27:14   or wherever you might share a little charging station,

00:27:18   now you can't just use the same cable.

00:27:19   And you've got to either have two of them everywhere

00:27:22   or divide up the territory 50/50.

00:27:26   Doesn't matter whether it's Lightning and 30 pin

00:27:28   or USB, micro USB, and USB-C. It's the same problem.

00:27:32   But somehow this only becomes like a public brouhaha

00:27:36   with Apple.

00:27:40   get that. I don't get it either. I guess it's because I don't know, I mean I guess you could

00:27:50   feasibly have a choice if you're on Android you could have a choice to go to a phone that

00:27:54   has like the connector that you like, which seems like an awful way to make a decision

00:27:59   to buy how to buy a phone. I really like mini USB and I'm gonna buy whatever phone has a

00:28:06   mini USB jack. Do not try to sell me micro USB.

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00:31:32   prevent me then from saying good things about them while they're paying me. It's all very

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00:32:54   I get nervous.

00:32:55   I get nervous with the sponsor where I feel like I might get illegal.

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00:33:00   - And end up in the clink.

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00:33:06   Like it's, I mean, there's always those stories

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00:33:10   but that's not even true.

00:33:12   It's only for like retailers.

00:33:14   - And it seems that, you know,

00:33:16   like, you know, sometimes as podcasts hosts,

00:33:18   we get free stuff from the--

00:33:20   - Yes.

00:33:21   - Yeah, and it seems like Wealthfront

00:33:22   would be a great place to get free stuff from.

00:33:25   (laughing)

00:33:26   - And they can't give me any.

00:33:27   - And alas, alas, they cannot give you any free stuff.

00:33:30   - That's a real drag.

00:33:31   - Yeah, yeah.

00:33:33   Really, it's sort of an interesting thing.

00:33:35   The idea would be that they don't wanna,

00:33:37   the rules are in place for good reason

00:33:39   because they don't wanna,

00:33:40   they can't have a thing where they're paying somebody

00:33:42   to go on a show and say,

00:33:43   I put all my money in Wealthfront and it went up

00:33:47   and that means it's always gonna go up.

00:33:49   - Right.

00:33:50   - They can't have that.

00:33:52   Let's go back to the,

00:33:54   if we go back to the audio port thing,

00:33:56   I wanna just say this.

00:33:57   That's the idea of, let's just say, in theory,

00:33:59   that Apple could either, like, let's just say for like

00:34:03   a month after the new iPhone 7 comes out,

00:34:05   and it doesn't have the headphone jack,

00:34:07   if they just have like a fishbowl in the Apple store,

00:34:11   where you can go in and just say,

00:34:15   "Hey, I need another one of those adapters."

00:34:17   And Apple, you know, they just give you one.

00:34:20   Not only would you get one for free with your iPhone,

00:34:23   that you could just go to the Apple store,

00:34:24   and if you want like two or three of them,

00:34:26   they'll just give you like, you know,

00:34:27   a reasonable number of them.

00:34:29   And then after that, like after the holiday season's over

00:34:34   or something like that, they just settle in

00:34:36   and sell them for, let's say,

00:34:38   I mean, I think the cheapest they could possibly

00:34:39   sell them for is, let's say, $9.95.

00:34:42   It doesn't seem to me like they would sell them for less,

00:34:44   but that's pretty cheap.

00:34:45   Why don't they do that?

00:34:47   Why don't they just give them away like candy?

00:34:50   - You got me.

00:34:52   - I think, well, there's two explanations.

00:34:56   One is the cynical one, which is that they really

00:35:00   do purposefully sell them for an exorbitant price

00:35:02   because they want the money.

00:35:04   And my two explanations aren't necessarily

00:35:09   at odds with each other.

00:35:09   There could be different groups within the company

00:35:11   that agree with both of them.

00:35:13   So there could be like a Tim Cook bean counter side,

00:35:18   Jeff Williams operation side that says,

00:35:20   if we can sell these for $29, that would be great

00:35:23   because we can make them for $3.

00:35:26   The other side, the product marketing side, might be sort of a, if we don't make it painful,

00:35:36   sufficiently painful to make this transition, even knowing that there's a cost to our image

00:35:44   because people will see us as money grubbing and purposefully making annoying port decisions

00:35:50   on the iPhone every year.

00:35:52   But if we don't do this, if it's not sufficiently painful, it won't motivate people to move

00:35:56   to the new thing.

00:35:59   And think about it with just the fact that there already are lightning headphones out

00:36:05   there but as far as I can tell, very few people use them.

00:36:09   And there aren't as many as I guess Apple would like.

00:36:13   I'm assuming they're more expensive.

00:36:14   They haven't liked.

00:36:16   Yeah, and I guess they have to be licensed.

00:36:18   I don't know.

00:36:19   Yeah, they would have to be, right?

00:36:22   I...

00:36:24   Well, the thing, I mean, the only thing that's a...

00:36:28   I think that's certainly probably true in the switch from 30-pin to Lightning.

00:36:34   Because I think Lightning was just a... it's just really legitimately a better experience.

00:36:41   The only thing that is kind of a...

00:36:44   I mean, obviously some of this is because we don't really know the whole story yet, even if it's happening.

00:36:49   But like if late the but the charging situation is not really a better such

00:36:53   Situation right that is not a better experience. Hmm

00:36:57   Yeah, so I guess the other question to ask is what would make this configuration better because I really do think Apple would only this

00:37:07   Is only going to happen if Apple thinks that overall this is better in some way

00:37:11   Yeah, and I don't I'm not quite sure I see it especially with the charging and

00:37:17   listening at the same time angle.

00:37:19   We may or may not have just spent the first hour of the show talking about something that's not happening that I don't even think is

00:37:27   going to happen.

00:37:27   But I just think that it could because it just sounds like something Apple would do, which is more or less what I said when I

00:37:33   blogged about it.

00:37:34   I just I just started it just sounds like so appley like we're gonna get rid of this thing that

00:37:39   it seems absurd to get rid of and

00:37:41   and knowing that it's going to make some people very angry

00:37:45   and make everybody else at least mildly annoyed.

00:37:47   Yeah. Well, they've been doing it for, you know, they've been doing it since the iMac, right?

00:37:53   Yeah. The other whole angle on this, and I've seen tons of people on Twitter,

00:37:57   we absolutely have to mention it, can't go on without doing it,

00:38:00   would be that the idea that maybe Apple expects people to switch to wireless headphones

00:38:07   and that maybe even the default ones that will ship with the iPhone will be wireless

00:38:11   and that yes, the you know if you want to use

00:38:16   your old headphones you can do it with the dongle if you want to get a new pair

00:38:20   of lightning headphones you can do it without a dongle

00:38:22   but that the default experience will switch from you know

00:38:26   connected headphones to wireless headphones

00:38:30   and they would have to ship Bluetooth headphones with

00:38:33   every iPhone.

00:38:36   I mean, it certainly would be more expensive.

00:38:41   My experience with wireless headphones, though, is not perfect.

00:38:47   I do like it for some things.

00:38:48   I do like it when I go jogging.

00:38:51   It really is.

00:38:52   There's no configuration of, even not even counting connecting it to an iPhone, but just

00:38:58   connecting it to the smallest iPod Nanos that they ever made or whatever the small one is.

00:39:06   No way does exercising with a wire connected to your ears is it eventually you're going to get tangled up in it.

00:39:17   So for that it's great but there's some problems with it where the latency isn't great.

00:39:23   It certainly isn't the instantaneous latency of a wired connection.

00:39:28   You know like when you hit the clicker on your ear thing to pause it takes a moment.

00:39:34   there's and it's noticeable that it doesn't pause the audio immediately yeah

00:39:38   it's a fraction of a second for me now after I've updated the firmware on on

00:39:43   these beats ones that I have but it's definitely noticeable every time I

00:39:47   notice that every single time because I'm used to I have you know I don't know

00:39:50   a lifetime of thinking that as soon as I hit pause my audio pauses I mean that

00:39:55   was true even in the cassette era yeah did the beats um skip ever or sort of

00:40:00   like stutter every once in a while yeah cuz that's I've got these plantronics

00:40:07   ones that I that I like well enough they're fairly comfortable and they stay

00:40:11   on real well but yeah I mean they I tried several really cheap Bluetooth

00:40:16   headsets and they were well I was really trying to find something that would work

00:40:20   with the watch because I wanted to be able to run right you know just like

00:40:23   leave the house with just the wearing just the watch and my and my Bluetooth

00:40:27   headphones and the cheap ones just did not, you know, this is, there was too much,

00:40:31   way too much skipping. I couldn't, it wasn't a good experience at all. So I got

00:40:34   these Plantronics ones which are much better, but still every once in a while

00:40:37   you get a little skip. Mostly, much more with the watch than with the phone, but

00:40:42   even so I think I've gotten a couple, you know, a couple instances with the phone

00:40:46   too. Yeah, wanting to go and, you know, if I could just put, if I could have a copy

00:40:51   of overcast on my watch and have the actual tele overcast or even I would even maybe even go back

00:40:59   to Apple's podcast player if it wasn't possible for third-party apps but if I could have the

00:41:02   podcasts on my watch and leave the house with nothing but the watch and bluetooth headphones

00:41:09   that would be fantastic because yeah any any possible way of carrying the phone stinks for

00:41:15   if you're going out running or something like that yeah yeah um but it's hard now

00:41:20   And it's just kind of frustrating because that's one of the things that was one of the first videos.

00:41:26   Yeah.

00:41:26   Like in the first watch demo, you know, they show these people jogging with headphones.

00:41:33   Yeah.

00:41:33   It's like, that's not really...

00:41:36   Yeah.

00:41:36   That didn't really pan out so well.

00:41:38   No, and when you... once you get to wireless, the pairing process, no matter how much effort they put into it,

00:41:44   is nowhere near as seamless as the pairing process of a wired pair of headphones, right?

00:41:48   Oh, yeah.

00:41:48   pull it out of this one, stick it into this one,

00:41:51   and you're paired.

00:41:52   Whereas if your wireless headphones are normally paired

00:41:55   with your iPhone, but you wanna just leave and pair,

00:41:58   you know, have it with your watch, you've gotta go,

00:42:01   I forget what you even do,

00:42:03   I think you have to do it on the phone, right?

00:42:04   You go over to the phone and launch the Apple Watch app

00:42:07   and pair it from there, and then it's unpaired from here.

00:42:09   - Yeah.

00:42:10   - It's, I don't know, it just seems to me like to make it,

00:42:15   to make that work and make it be the default experience

00:42:17   that we use for headphones seems like it's not there.

00:42:21   And the Bluetooth latency thing,

00:42:22   and the skipping and stuff like that is definitely an issue.

00:42:24   Amy has a pair that she bought,

00:42:26   I forget what brand they were,

00:42:28   but she just went to the wire cutter and bought their,

00:42:32   here's our recommended pair of Bluetooth headphones,

00:42:36   and she just got those.

00:42:38   (laughs)

00:42:42   She was mad, she wanted Marco to do a wireless headphone

00:42:45   thing because she was very upset

00:42:47   because they were not good.

00:42:48   I think what happened is I think that the wire cutter

00:42:51   might be values that cost a little bit more than quality

00:42:55   than we do because hers skip a lot.

00:42:59   - Weren't they still, weren't those still

00:43:00   a couple hundred bucks 'cause I looked at those too?

00:43:02   - Yeah, they weren't cheap, that's the other thing too.

00:43:05   It wasn't like it was, here's what we recommend

00:43:07   'cause it was super low cost,

00:43:08   it was sort of a balance between cost and...

00:43:12   - Okay.

00:43:13   - And the Beats ones I bought were, I don't know,

00:43:16   They were like three or $4,000.

00:43:18   - Oh my God.

00:43:19   (laughing)

00:43:21   You're kidding.

00:43:24   - Yeah, I'm kidding.

00:43:25   - Okay, for a minute there.

00:43:28   - I think they were.

00:43:29   - I thought that was possible.

00:43:30   - I do think that they were 200.

00:43:31   - 100 bucks probably.

00:43:32   - I think they were like $299 or 249 or something.

00:43:35   It felt like I, this is why--

00:43:37   - 'Cause I looked at that, yeah.

00:43:38   - It felt like as I was cashing out,

00:43:41   I bought them in an Apple store just to look at them

00:43:43   and I thought, I'll buy these Beats ones

00:43:45   because these have come out recently.

00:43:48   I think they came out this year,

00:43:49   so it was after the Apple acquisition.

00:43:52   It's not a very Apple-y product.

00:43:53   It's not like Apple has,

00:43:55   these were probably designed beforehand.

00:43:56   I mean, and they use micro USB, which is real gross,

00:43:59   but for the charging.

00:44:02   But I figured if the Beats ones don't work right with Apple,

00:44:06   and I say this knowing Beats's reputation

00:44:08   that the audio quality for Beats headphones of any sort

00:44:11   is not that great,

00:44:12   and that you're overpaying for the brand.

00:44:15   But I just figured if the Beats ones don't work right,

00:44:21   which ones will?

00:44:22   So I might as well just pay for it.

00:44:24   But paying $249 for a pair of these things really felt like

00:44:27   I was paying like $4,000.

00:44:30   (laughing)

00:44:32   - Well, the Plantronics ones were like 90 bucks.

00:44:36   And they're okay.

00:44:39   - But if even the cheap ones from third parties

00:44:42   cost $99, can Apple really afford to?

00:44:46   - Well, when I say I bought some cheap ones,

00:44:47   I mean, the other ones that I bought were like 30 bucks.

00:44:50   They were really cheap.

00:44:52   - Wow.

00:44:53   - And I don't recommend that.

00:44:55   - No.

00:44:56   - So I had to go, so I basically, I tried these other ones

00:44:59   and I was like, okay, this is a terrible experience.

00:45:01   And then I got the Plantronics one, so I tripled my Outlay

00:45:05   and was satisfied enough.

00:45:09   I mean, so I got the watch and I wanted to be able

00:45:11   to do this, you know, running with the headphones.

00:45:13   And I, at the time, like back in the spring,

00:45:17   I wasn't sure how much I was gonna like the watch.

00:45:21   And so I didn't really wanna dump a lot of money

00:45:25   on this whole thing.

00:45:26   So I wanted, particularly for the headphones,

00:45:30   I wanted to pay as little as possible.

00:45:32   - Yeah.

00:45:32   So I don't know, it seems to me that Apple

00:45:37   would have to improve the state of the art considerably

00:45:41   to make that possible as the sort of default experience

00:45:44   for how we're going to listen to stuff

00:45:46   from our iPhones to make wireless.

00:45:48   And I say wireless rather than even Bluetooth

00:45:50   'cause maybe the way that they would do it

00:45:52   would be to use their own wireless.

00:45:55   - Airplay?

00:45:57   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:45:58   - I hope it's not airplay.

00:46:00   - Well, but use something other than Bluetooth

00:46:03   simply because I honestly don't think

00:46:06   Bluetooth is all that good.

00:46:07   Like I quipped last month that, you know,

00:46:10   the slogan of the Bluetooth consortium is,

00:46:13   "Just wait till next year."

00:46:15   But it really is, it's been forever.

00:46:17   Ever since I first bought my first Bluetooth product,

00:46:22   it has always been, you figure it out,

00:46:24   you finally get it working,

00:46:26   and you realize this isn't that great,

00:46:28   and it's kind of finicky, and sometimes it loses.

00:46:31   It loses its connection, even when it's right next door

00:46:34   to the thing it's supposed to be connected to,

00:46:36   and then you go and read about it,

00:46:37   and they're like, "Just wait till Bluetooth 2.0.

00:46:39   It solves all these problems.

00:46:40   And then Bluetooth 2.0 comes out

00:46:42   and you realize that it has all these problems

00:46:44   and they say, "Just wait 'til Bluetooth 3.0.

00:46:46   Just wait 'til Bluetooth 4.0 with low power

00:46:49   and stuff like that."

00:46:50   But it's, now they're saying,

00:46:53   whatever the next Bluetooth is

00:46:55   is gonna solve all these problems.

00:46:56   I mean, I hope it does someday,

00:46:57   but I wouldn't be surprised,

00:46:58   I really wouldn't be surprised at all

00:47:00   if Apple just goes proprietary on it

00:47:02   and figures out their own short range

00:47:05   wireless networking thing.

00:47:08   That'd be nice.

00:47:10   - I don't even know if networking's

00:47:11   quite the right way to put it,

00:47:12   but you know, wireless connector technology.

00:47:14   Just do it on your own.

00:47:16   I don't know.

00:47:17   - I don't know.

00:47:18   My experience though with AirPlay has not been great.

00:47:20   So.

00:47:21   - I think that that's more complicated though,

00:47:24   'cause I think AirPlay is, who knows?

00:47:27   - Yeah, it's dependent on a lot of different things, right?

00:47:29   I mean, 'cause it has to go through your network and.

00:47:31   - Right, and it goes,

00:47:32   it's not just Bluetooth or something.

00:47:34   It's, you know, goes over the wifi channel

00:47:36   and stuff like that.

00:47:37   The other thing, but it gets back to charging,

00:47:39   and it gets back to, you know, that there's,

00:47:42   if you're using wired headphones and sharing the same port,

00:47:45   there's a problem, or if you wanna charge it,

00:47:48   there's a charging problem with wireless headphones too,

00:47:49   which is that your headphones can lose their battery power,

00:47:53   and that's a real pain in the ass.

00:47:55   And so if your default headphones are wireless,

00:47:59   now you're just adding yet another thing

00:48:01   that you need to charge to your life.

00:48:04   Like, I understand the appeal of,

00:48:06   wow, this is yet another thing that I don't need a cable for anymore to use, but on the

00:48:12   other hand, now you need another thing that you have to charge all the time.

00:48:17   The Beats have decent battery life.

00:48:20   It's about what I kind of, I guess, about the best I could have hoped for, but it's

00:48:24   not great.

00:48:25   I mean, you definitely have to remember, if you use them all the time, you have to remember

00:48:28   to charge them a lot.

00:48:31   The nice thing about the Plantronics is when you turn it on, and actually I don't think

00:48:35   it doesn't work. It should do it when you turn it off, but when you turn it on it tells

00:48:38   you how charged it is. It says "battery full" or "battery partially full."

00:48:45   It's like the smallest icon anybody's ever created, but when you pair them with your

00:48:49   iPhone there's a little charge indicator up in the menu bar.

00:48:55   For everything or just for the beats? Oh, maybe it's just for the beats. I thought

00:48:58   it was for the beats. Yeah, I don't remember seeing that, but I wasn't looking for it.

00:49:03   of a battery that's horizontal, it's a little vertical battery. It is so small that I can't

00:49:09   see it if I have my contact lenses in. I can see it, but I can't read how high it goes

00:49:15   because I could just tell that there's a little rectangle there.

00:49:20   Tim Cynova You sure it's not your detached retina?

00:49:23   Dave Asprey No, it's not. Even if I close my bad eye,

00:49:27   I just can't make it out if I have my contacts in. If I have my glasses on, I can take my

00:49:31   glasses off and then I can see that close but it's just way too small.

00:49:37   What's the indicator on your Plantronics? How does it get to suggest how much

00:49:41   battery is left? When you turn it, when you power it on, when you put them on and

00:49:45   power them on it tells you it talks. Oh, like with a voice? Yeah. Well, what

00:49:52   does it say? Battery full. I think it just says connected or headphones

00:49:59   connected and then the beat refold that says think it's just something else but

00:50:05   camera what it is the beats just play a tone but the tone definitely doesn't

00:50:08   change when when you you know given the battery life well anyway coincidence of

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00:53:56   What's the other-- there's another rumor

00:54:02   that came out today, and it doesn't make any sense.

00:54:06   It doesn't make any sense at all to me.

00:54:08   So I didn't even know how to write about it.

00:54:09   I thought, you know what?

00:54:10   If it doesn't make any sense, it's better for the podcast.

00:54:14   I say that, but I really mean that.

00:54:16   I actually mean that.

00:54:17   I find that having a podcast in addition to a blog,

00:54:21   the best stuff to talk about on the podcast

00:54:24   is the stuff that doesn't make any sense to me.

00:54:27   And this is a story--

00:54:28   MacRumors picked it up.

00:54:30   This is about the-- do you see this with somebody--

00:54:34   I don't know who the source is here.

00:54:35   But somebody is saying that Apple

00:54:37   is working on next generation iPad, MacBook Airs, 13 inch and 15 inch. That'll be coming

00:54:48   out.

00:54:49   13 inch and 15 inch?

00:54:52   I'll send you the link right now, but I'll read it to you. This is information from Taiwan's

00:55:01   economic daily news

00:55:05   and what they say

00:55:10   is

00:55:12   apple may be preparing to introduce a revamped macbook air at next year's

00:55:15   worldwide developers conference according to taiwan's economic daily

00:55:18   news

00:55:19   nail a little google translate link to the original if apple holds true to

00:55:22   recent history would be that would be in june

00:55:25   blah blah blah

00:55:27   uh...

00:55:30   unclear whether an 11-inch model will also be included. I went to the Google

00:55:35   Translate thing and it did seem like that's what the original article which

00:55:38   was written in Chinese

00:55:39   you know said that it did definitely mention the 11-inch and you know

00:55:43   trying to read between the lines of the

00:55:46   you know the Google Translate English

00:55:49   it seemed like they're saying that it might happen or might not.

00:55:53   But they're saying 13-inch and 15-inch sizes. No

00:55:56   no other stuff about the specs or anything like that,

00:55:59   no news about whether they're retina or not.

00:56:01   This whole thing makes no sense to me whatsoever.

00:56:05   - No, no, it makes no sense to me either.

00:56:08   - Because to me, starting even just with the naming

00:56:12   of the MacBook, the one that only has one USB-C port

00:56:17   that's for charging and connecting peripherals,

00:56:20   which by the way, might be a hint as to how much Apple cares

00:56:25   about you having to use some kind of y splitting dongle

00:56:28   if you need to charge and listen to something

00:56:30   at the same time.

00:56:30   But anyway, the name of it,

00:56:34   the fact that it is thinner and lighter than a MacBook Air,

00:56:37   but they just called it the MacBook,

00:56:39   certainly suggests to me that the MacBook Air

00:56:42   is only hanging around because it can be sold cheaper

00:56:46   than the MacBook.

00:56:47   And as the price of making a MacBook drops,

00:56:50   eventually the MacBook Airs are gonna go away.

00:56:53   It doesn't make any sense to me

00:56:54   that they would do a next generation one.

00:56:55   - Yeah, yeah.

00:56:56   It's very strange.

00:56:59   And different sizes.

00:57:01   - Yeah, the only thing that would make sense to me

00:57:04   would be if, here's the only way

00:57:07   that this story makes sense to me,

00:57:08   is if they're not talking about MacBook Airs,

00:57:11   but instead the devices they're talking about

00:57:13   are in fact next generation MacBook Pros.

00:57:16   'Cause then 13 and 15 inch are the two sizes.

00:57:21   And compared to the MacBook, the current MacBook Pros

00:57:27   are rather thick.

00:57:30   And it seems like Apple sort of prefers, aesthetically,

00:57:34   the teardrop profile for laptops,

00:57:37   and that the MacBook Pros, the Retina MacBook Pros in both

00:57:40   sizes, have the symmetric rectangular sort of profile,

00:57:45   simply because that's the best that they could do at the time

00:57:47   to get all the components in to drive the retina screen.

00:57:51   So my guess would be if there's any truth to this story,

00:57:54   it would be, this would be my guess,

00:57:55   is that new MacBook Pros are coming next year

00:57:58   and they might go back to,

00:58:00   they might go to like an Air style teardrop profile.

00:58:04   - Yeah, yeah, 'cause if you go through that

00:58:08   and replace Air with Pro, it makes a lot more sense.

00:58:11   - Yeah, and I just think marketing-wise,

00:58:13   I feel like the current situation

00:58:15   where they've got three types of MacBook,

00:58:20   even if you just count the pros and the

00:58:24   heirs as the same but which size do you want which I think is fair

00:58:28   I don't think people are confused by whether they want to 11 in jail 13 in

00:58:32   chair

00:58:32   or 13 in chair 15 and are fifth 13 inch pro 15 inch pro

00:58:37   I I still think though that having to choose

00:58:43   that that the the mac book existing alongside the air is just a little bit

00:58:46   confusing

00:58:47   And I know that there's a, well, do you want a retina screen or, you know,

00:58:51   do you want to have the super thin, even more portable size?

00:58:54   But it just seems to me like it's all about what price points they can hit.

00:58:58   And right now they can't hit that eight 99 starting price with this Mac book.

00:59:02   And so the air lives on until it, you know, yeah, until it can.

00:59:07   Is the, is the retina screen itself that, I mean, is that the price difference?

00:59:14   I mean, is that component

00:59:16   that expensive I guess?

00:59:19   I think so combined with having a graphics card that can drive it

00:59:24   because it has to go, you know, it has to really, you know, from a graphics card

00:59:27   perspective it really is more of a 4x

00:59:30   difference in performance than a 2x. It's really the

00:59:33   total number of pixels not just how many pixels are in

00:59:36   an inch in one dimension. I really do think it's

00:59:41   you know definitely, definitely expensive. It doesn't seem like they would

00:59:44   discontinue the pro and rename it the air.

00:59:48   - No, that doesn't make any sense.

00:59:51   - That's another logical possibility going through this,

00:59:54   but that seems unlikely to me.

00:59:56   - Yeah, because you can quibble about some of Apple's

01:00:00   product naming strategies,

01:00:02   and whether they make sense or not,

01:00:05   like the way that the third generation iPad

01:00:08   just became the iPad, not the iPad 3, right?

01:00:13   Wasn't that when they did that?

01:00:14   There was like the iPad, iPad 2, and then iPad.

01:00:18   - I think right now we have iPad Mini 2

01:00:23   and iPad Mini 4, right?

01:00:25   - Yeah, something like that.

01:00:27   - There's no iPad Mini 3 on sale.

01:00:31   - Right.

01:00:31   So like when they decide to just number stuff

01:00:36   versus, you know, like, and you know, there's it,

01:00:40   the whole thing is a little, I don't know, messy, right?

01:00:44   iPads just get a number that increments,

01:00:46   even if the form factor stays the same,

01:00:48   but the iPhone gets this S every other year.

01:00:53   But nothing makes like,

01:00:55   nothing goes contrary to common sense,

01:00:58   which is what it would be if the iPad,

01:01:02   or if the MacBook Pro got renamed the MacBook Air.

01:01:05   It's just that that doesn't make any sense,

01:01:08   'cause it would be heavier than the regular MacBook.

01:01:13   Pro to me says this is more powerful and therefore it's a little heavier.

01:01:19   Whereas Air says this is lighter.

01:01:22   It also makes sense to me because something like what they intend to call it in marketing

01:01:28   is exactly the sort of thing that whatever the sources in Taiwan who told them this would

01:01:32   have no access to whatsoever.

01:01:36   Because that's just the sort of thing that really doesn't leak out of Cupertino because

01:01:41   there's no reason for it.

01:01:42   They just know the code name for it.

01:01:46   Like the companies in Asia just know something,

01:01:49   it's called like N68 or something like that.

01:01:52   - Yeah.

01:01:53   So what's the current, so the current difference

01:01:57   between the Air and the Pro is mostly,

01:02:00   is the retina display and--

01:02:04   - It's actually very complicated.

01:02:05   It's a really, like if you just had to buy one

01:02:08   right now today, it's to me a very complicated decision.

01:02:11   So aesthetically, the retina screen

01:02:14   is the biggest difference.

01:02:15   And so if you really want a retina screen,

01:02:16   then you're gonna get the regular MacBook.

01:02:18   But the Air, even though it's cheaper, is faster.

01:02:22   It has higher performance.

01:02:23   - Huh, I wasn't aware of that.

01:02:29   I guess 'cause I've never looked at,

01:02:30   I haven't looked at a MacBook Pro

01:02:32   in the interest of buying one in years.

01:02:36   - Right.

01:02:38   'cause I'm all like, I'm, you know,

01:02:40   I've been on the air for a while now, so.

01:02:43   And I actually have recently been thinking,

01:02:45   ah, that's great, I've got, mine has been,

01:02:47   is from 2012, so I'm kind of thinking,

01:02:49   it's gonna be time to upgrade soon.

01:02:53   This seems like kind of a bad time to do it.

01:02:56   - I think it probably is,

01:02:57   because I really don't think you wanna buy,

01:02:59   you don't wanna buy another MacBook Air

01:03:02   without a retina screen.

01:03:03   - Right. - Whatever the performance

01:03:04   games would be, and they're, you know,

01:03:06   three years is pretty significant,

01:03:07   but I think you could probably get by until they,

01:03:12   at least until you see what they come out with next year.

01:03:15   - Yeah, and I don't, yeah, right,

01:03:17   'cause I don't wanna get a pro,

01:03:19   and I feel like I somehow just have this feeling

01:03:22   that the upgrade in next year's MacBook

01:03:26   is gonna be significant.

01:03:27   - Yeah, you mean the just plain MacBook with no modifier.

01:03:31   Right, and I just feel, I don't know, I know nothing.

01:03:34   I don't have any information about,

01:03:37   Well, I just know nothing in general,

01:03:38   but I know nothing about Apple's product plans.

01:03:41   I don't ask people to stuff like that anymore.

01:03:45   But just common sense-wise, I'm almost certain

01:03:49   that there'd be a new MacBook next year.

01:03:50   And it's probably going to be a pretty significant upgrade

01:03:53   over last year's, because A, last year's

01:03:55   had a lot of very obvious flaws.

01:03:57   So there's low-hanging fruit of how they can make it better.

01:04:00   And B, it's the first generation of anything

01:04:05   that Apple is almost certainly to be able to improve it

01:04:07   one year over another.

01:04:09   It's only when products have been around

01:04:11   for three or four revolutions

01:04:13   where they might let it sit for 18 months between an update.

01:04:19   Because they've gotten so good at doing blank

01:04:23   that this is good enough,

01:04:25   this is actually gonna be able to be appealing to customers

01:04:30   for 18 months or even closer to two years.

01:04:32   Yeah.

01:04:33   So I don't know.

01:04:37   I think if they could make the MacBook better next year

01:04:44   and then maybe keep the same one that they started

01:04:47   selling last year but drop the price significantly,

01:04:51   introduce a new one that's better,

01:04:53   keep this one around at a lower price point.

01:04:58   Get rid of the error.

01:04:59   Yeah, maybe they could get rid of the error.

01:05:00   - And especially too, maybe if they could,

01:05:03   if they can make the pros thinner,

01:05:07   or in teardrops to some degree.

01:05:09   - And improve the performance of it.

01:05:12   - Right.

01:05:13   Maybe like the 13 inch,

01:05:16   or maybe the 11 inch air stays around

01:05:20   just to hit that 8.99 price point,

01:05:22   whatever it is that it starts at today.

01:05:23   - Well yeah, it seems like the kind of thing that,

01:05:24   right, it would be, you know,

01:05:26   what we always call like the educational option,

01:05:30   whatever the cheap thing is.

01:05:33   Something that you really have to go into the store

01:05:36   and ask to see.

01:05:37   The starting price is for the MacBook Air right now.

01:05:43   11 inch starts at $899 and 13 inch starts at $999.

01:05:47   So who knows if the MacBook could drop that much year

01:05:51   over year.

01:05:52   But maybe it could get close.

01:05:55   What's it start at now, $1299?

01:05:58   - Yes.

01:06:00   - I just loaded the page, but I had to wait

01:06:02   for Apple's excellent animation to load

01:06:07   before I could find it.

01:06:08   1299, so yeah, I really doubt that it's gonna go

01:06:15   from 1299 to 899 in a year.

01:06:17   So I guess the error gets another year.

01:06:20   - No, there's no way it's gonna go that low.

01:06:22   But they haven't always been that low.

01:06:24   - Right, but I think they could set it up in a way

01:06:27   where they don't emphasize it that much in the way

01:06:29   that they don't really emphasize very much the free iPhone 5S.

01:06:37   That they give a lot of publicity to the new ones, the MacBook

01:06:41   and the MacBook Pro.

01:06:43   And then there's the MacBook Air in the back.

01:06:45   Yeah.

01:06:46   But for a long time, they started at--

01:06:48   I mean, they started at $999.

01:06:52   And there may have been even a point where they started at $1,100,

01:06:55   the laptops.

01:06:56   Oh, definitely.

01:06:57   I mean, they used to cost $5,000.

01:06:59   - Well, yeah, I mean, I don't mean that long ago, but.

01:07:02   And it almost seems like, I don't think they'd be

01:07:06   too adverse to going back to 9.99

01:07:08   when they have the iPad Pro sitting in the middle.

01:07:13   - Right, that's an interesting point

01:07:14   that maybe they could get away with actually raising--

01:07:17   - Somebody comes in, they only wanna spend X amount,

01:07:20   and they say, "Well, how about this?"

01:07:23   - Right.

01:07:23   'Cause, you know, let's face it,

01:07:25   their heart isn't really in the lowest possibly priced

01:07:31   products on the internet.

01:07:32   That's for sure.

01:07:33   Although, I mean, I would say that the MacBook Air of all

01:07:40   of them, of all the lowest priced ones,

01:07:44   is probably not such a bad machine.

01:07:48   No, it's not a bad machine.

01:07:49   I just think, though, that being non-retina--

01:07:54   - You know, it gets back to the whole argument

01:07:55   that we had many times about,

01:07:58   hey, what should Apple do with the next generation iPhone?

01:08:01   Should they keep the same thickness?

01:08:03   It's already so nice and thin,

01:08:05   and just miniaturize everything and put more battery in

01:08:08   and extend battery life,

01:08:09   or should they make the device ever thinner?

01:08:12   And Apple tends to lean towards making it thinner,

01:08:14   and lots of people wish that they would

01:08:16   just make the battery life better.

01:08:17   That's exactly, I mean, bottom line,

01:08:19   putting the argument about just one USB port aside,

01:08:22   I think that's ultimately the biggest complaint

01:08:26   people have about the MacBook,

01:08:27   is that the Air was thin enough

01:08:29   and that they should have just kept

01:08:31   making battery life better.

01:08:32   - Yeah.

01:08:34   Wow, really?

01:08:36   People still complain about the MacBook Air battery life?

01:08:39   It's pretty good now, isn't it?

01:08:40   - Well, it is pretty good, I guess.

01:08:41   - Yeah.

01:08:42   - But that they, you know, or that they could have--

01:08:44   - As someone who does not have a current one, I would--

01:08:46   - Well, and maybe with the performance and stuff too.

01:08:48   - People don't know how good you have it.

01:08:49   - Maybe it's not even battery life,

01:08:51   but maybe it comes down to things like performance

01:08:52   that they wouldn't have had to go with this low power core M

01:08:55   CPU, they could have had to just keep making,

01:08:59   just keep that form factor and just switch

01:09:02   to a retina display and keep making the performance better.

01:09:06   I mean, more or less, I think that what people wanted

01:09:08   was for them to do a retina MacBook Air.

01:09:12   And it looks, I think it looks like they're never

01:09:14   gonna do it this--

01:09:15   - No, I wouldn't think so either.

01:09:16   - This rumor we're talking about aside, I just don't see it.

01:09:19   - No.

01:09:20   Yeah, I mean, I agree.

01:09:21   I think this is the pro, not the air.

01:09:25   - Yeah, it didn't say anything about colors.

01:09:28   It'd be interesting to know whether the pro

01:09:29   is gonna go with color options for charcoal.

01:09:33   What do they call it?

01:09:34   No, not charcoal, space gray.

01:09:35   - Space gray, yeah.

01:09:37   - I would love to have a space gray one.

01:09:39   - Yeah.

01:09:41   - I don't want, I don't covet the MacBook at all

01:09:43   because it's, I want more RAM

01:09:46   and I like having a MacBook Pro.

01:09:47   But I do covet the way that it looks.

01:09:50   I love the Space Gray.

01:09:51   - Yeah.

01:09:54   Although it starts with eight gigs of RAM.

01:09:59   - Yeah, well, I have whatever the most is.

01:10:02   I think it's 16.

01:10:03   - You got it, okay.

01:10:05   - I have a lot of tabs.

01:10:06   It's all browser tabs.

01:10:10   - Must be nice.

01:10:11   - Let's take a break and then we talk--

01:10:15   - Shucking along with four.

01:10:17   - Let's take a break and let me tell you

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01:12:48   What else you got to talk about?

01:12:53   What else is going on this week?

01:12:54   Maybe I should have something to talk about.

01:12:58   - You should, well, do you wanna talk about,

01:13:00   you wanna talk about, well,

01:13:02   you wanna talk about Star Wars at all?

01:13:03   (laughing)

01:13:04   - No.

01:13:05   - No, okay.

01:13:06   I know you don't wanna talk about--

01:13:08   - I don't wanna talk about spoilers.

01:13:09   Yeah, I know you don't want to talk about spoilers.

01:13:11   All right, so if we can do it without talking spoilers,

01:13:13   then I will definitely talk about it.

01:13:15   Well, OK, so do you have tickets?

01:13:18   I do.

01:13:19   Oh, definitely.

01:13:20   And this is one where I really care,

01:13:23   and Amy is sort of vaguely interested, but not like me.

01:13:30   And I didn't know you had to pre-order.

01:13:32   I'm the dad who no longer understands

01:13:34   how movies, theatrical movies, work.

01:13:38   I remember when I was young and my dad found out that movies were $5 for a kid's ticket

01:13:44   and he couldn't believe it.

01:13:45   He just absolutely couldn't believe that it cost $5 to go to a movie.

01:13:50   I'm like that now both with prices like when Jonas and I went to see Spectre and I didn't

01:13:58   know about this online ordering.

01:14:00   It doesn't make any sense to me.

01:14:01   It seems to me like if you want to go see – I just assumed that if you want to go

01:14:04   go see Star Wars on opening weekend, you got to go, you got to drive somewhere and then

01:14:08   you get out and you go wait in a big long line with lots of people. And after you wait

01:14:13   in line, you go see the movie. But it turns out what you need to do is buy your tickets

01:14:16   in advance. I didn't know this. Amy did and really sort of saved my bacon.

01:14:21   So are you, wait, are you saying you cannot buy tickets at the, no, you can't. But I think

01:14:25   for opening weekend because yeah, because you'll never get in. Yeah, I don't. I think

01:14:29   you'll never get in unless they open,

01:14:32   unless they surprise people by having more screenings of it

01:14:36   than they're publicizing in advance.

01:14:38   - Which they might do,

01:14:40   'cause that seems like that would be, I mean,

01:14:43   yeah, train.

01:14:45   - Although they might pre-sell,

01:14:47   maybe you have to figure out the second pre-sale date

01:14:49   to get in on those.

01:14:50   I mean, it seems as though,

01:14:53   it seems like it might, before it even happens,

01:14:56   that it might become the biggest box office

01:14:59   - Yeah. - opening weekend ever.

01:15:00   - I think it's gonna be huge.

01:15:02   It's gonna be.

01:15:03   So I think I'm out. (laughs)

01:15:06   - Oh, 'cause you don't have tickets.

01:15:07   - 'Cause I don't have tickets.

01:15:08   I don't have tickets yet.

01:15:09   Well, so,

01:15:10   my son doesn't like going to the movies that much.

01:15:15   He doesn't like going out to the movies that much.

01:15:18   And so I approached him with the idea of going to that.

01:15:21   And he, at first he was going,

01:15:22   "Yeah, you know, da, da, da, da."

01:15:24   And then when I showed him the trailer,

01:15:27   he was a little more interested.

01:15:28   So I still haven't gotten like a firm commitment

01:15:32   and I'm not exactly sure when we would schedule this event.

01:15:36   So I feel like rushing out and buying tickets

01:15:40   is like I'm not on an even footing yet.

01:15:42   - Yeah, I wonder if there's like a StubHub aftermarket forum

01:15:45   like sporting events.

01:15:46   Like it seems crazy, but I mean,

01:15:49   it's absolutely insane how hard it was.

01:15:52   And it was one of those things where I did it

01:15:53   the first night that they went on sale at the right time.

01:15:56   And really, I must say,

01:15:58   only because my wife was like,

01:15:59   "Are you gonna buy Star Wars tickets?"

01:16:00   And I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

01:16:01   And she explained to me and I immediately ran to,

01:16:04   I think it's Fandango.

01:16:06   - Yeah, yeah. - It's a funny thing to say.

01:16:08   And it was like buying an Apple product

01:16:11   when they first go on sale,

01:16:12   like their website was going down.

01:16:14   It was saying ridiculous things like--

01:16:18   - Yeah, that was the other thing,

01:16:19   like I couldn't actually get on Fandango.

01:16:22   - It was saying things like that the movie theater

01:16:25   didn't have any tickets available for a certain show.

01:16:28   And two minutes after they went on sale,

01:16:30   I was like, that can't be.

01:16:31   It can't be that they've sold out in two minutes.

01:16:33   And in fact, it wasn't, but it was like

01:16:35   their back end was just completely blown apart.

01:16:39   And then the worst of all any kind of thing like this

01:16:42   when you're in like a mad rush to buy tickets

01:16:44   is when you get through, you get the tickets you want,

01:16:48   and you're going through the process

01:16:51   of like signing into Fandango,

01:16:53   and then it just says like, an error occurred.

01:16:56   (laughing)

01:16:58   And you're like, do I have tickets

01:16:59   or do I not have tickets?

01:17:01   And you don't know.

01:17:02   And it's hard to even check if you have tickets

01:17:04   because their website is down.

01:17:05   And then you go and find out that no,

01:17:07   you don't have tickets yet.

01:17:08   It was stressful.

01:17:10   But I do, I have tickets for,

01:17:12   I think it's a 10 o'clock showing on Thursday,

01:17:17   the night before it opens.

01:17:19   - Before, yeah.

01:17:20   - And I've already been told that I will be responsible

01:17:24   for taking Jonah's school.

01:17:26   (laughing)

01:17:29   - Congratulations.

01:17:30   You're getting up early.

01:17:33   - Yeah.

01:17:34   - You're staying up late and getting up early.

01:17:35   - And then I got, I think I have Saturday afternoon

01:17:37   matinee tickets at a, it seems like a better theater,

01:17:40   like a place with reserved seating.

01:17:42   - Oh, so you have two sets of tickets?

01:17:46   - I have two sets of tickets.

01:17:47   I have Thursday night and then Saturday matinee.

01:17:50   - I was trying to find it.

01:17:54   I was gonna show you one of the things that,

01:17:55   you know, when Fandango was going down,

01:17:58   were they, one of the images that,

01:17:59   which you may have seen or may not have seen,

01:18:01   but one of the images that they showed

01:18:02   was Han and Chewie working on the Millennium Falcon.

01:18:05   So it's like, you know, something's gone wrong,

01:18:11   and it's like, you know, Han's got the goggles on,

01:18:14   and they're like welding the Millennium Falcon

01:18:17   from like, Empire Strikes Back.

01:18:20   - That's actually pretty funny.

01:18:21   - Yeah.

01:18:22   Nicely done.

01:18:24   You know, that's one of those things I have to rewatch.

01:18:26   I have not rewatched those films in a while,

01:18:29   at least ever since it was announced that,

01:18:33   hey, Disney's buying Star Wars

01:18:36   and we're gonna reboot the franchise,

01:18:38   or not reboot, but, which I think would be terrible.

01:18:41   That would be like, reboot would be like,

01:18:43   we're gonna recast Han Solo.

01:18:44   No, that'd be awful.

01:18:47   But relaunch it.

01:18:48   We're doing the trilogy that everybody always wanted

01:18:52   to take place after you know the one that you loved.

01:18:55   I immediately just stopped watching all of them

01:18:59   and I thought I'll just you know,

01:19:01   I'll wait and then whenever this movie actually comes out,

01:19:04   you know we'll have like a little family movie weekend

01:19:06   then we'll watch all the old ones.

01:19:07   So I'm excited to do that.

01:19:11   - Including the prequels?

01:19:12   - Yeah, I think you have to include them.

01:19:15   - God.

01:19:16   - I don't know. - It's so hard.

01:19:18   - You know that's an interesting thing.

01:19:20   I've said this before on the show where it's,

01:19:22   I've noticed, and Jonas has been watching him

01:19:25   since he was ridiculously young.

01:19:28   He's never been a kid who's,

01:19:32   he's sort of a very gentle kid in real life.

01:19:34   He is not like a, get Rammy and Roughhouse sort of kid.

01:19:40   And so he, like dealing with like a violent action movie,

01:19:45   if you, even considering Star Wars is sort of violent,

01:19:48   has never caused him to like act up in ways.

01:19:51   And it's never you know he was afraid of the rank or and oh and he didn't like watching the Wampa

01:19:55   He'd run out of the room for that one every time yeah

01:19:57   But he you know but he could handle that sort of thing too like you like so if they're like he didn't want to see

01:20:02   the Wampa

01:20:04   But it wouldn't like keep him up at night or make him cry all it did is when he watched Empire Strikes Back

01:20:09   He would just he knew when it was coming and he just ran out of the room

01:20:12   And then he just sort of wait until he could hear that it was over and then he'd run back in yeah

01:20:18   And he was fine. So we let him watch him early. The thing I noticed was that

01:20:21   They all blurred together for him as a kid and maybe you know, I'm sure somewhere if he's listening Syracuse is

01:20:28   Really angry at me that I didn't really strategize this aspect of my father that I just let him watch what he wanted to

01:20:36   But my theory on that was that I just can't see if if you've got

01:20:40   Unlimited access to Star Wars movies that you can watch in your home on a nice TV

01:20:45   I just couldn't bring myself to not let him do it.

01:20:49   Like, it would have driven me nuts to, when I was a kid, if I could have had all the Star Wars you could eat,

01:20:55   to not be able to do it. So I let him do it and it blurred together.

01:21:00   And I noticed when he'd play with his friends early, like kindergarten and first grade,

01:21:04   A, it impressed me and I really enjoyed the fact that he and his friends were really into Star Wars,

01:21:12   Not quite to the way that you and I were back in the day

01:21:15   You know the way that really Star Wars was everything to me everything and yeah, and you know

01:21:23   77 through 83 or so

01:21:25   It was the only thing that mattered

01:21:28   It's not quite like that, but they were you know it was more than just you know well this week

01:21:33   They're in the Star Wars and the next week. They were into something else

01:21:36   They were really into Star Wars for all but it all blurred together for them like they just didn't see to

01:21:41   Two trilogies where one was better than another they just see it saw them all and I found that very odd

01:21:48   Yeah, that is interesting

01:21:51   Hank has never seen the earth the prequels. See you're just like Syracuse. Oh, you're probably a better

01:21:56   Well, I started out like that. I started out like no he's not gonna he's not gonna see him

01:22:02   and then you know we got through the

01:22:05   You know, he's so he's seen all the

01:22:09   original movies a few times. Not relentlessly like I have, but he's seen

01:22:14   them a few times and then he got really into the Clone Wars, the animated show.

01:22:19   He was, and for him that's really his Star Wars, I think. But how do you really

01:22:24   like that a lot? So why would you let him watch the the Clone Wars but not watch

01:22:27   the prequels? I think the Clone Wars animated show is better than the

01:22:32   prequels. In many ways I agree, but I feel like they're of a piece because

01:22:38   it's clearly in terms of the timing you know it's it's entirely within the realm

01:22:43   of you know Anakin and Obi-Wan you know being the buddy cops yeah but so as well

01:22:53   so when Clone Wars ended I thought okay well maybe now in this lull is the time

01:23:00   to watch the prequels and I got what I got like a fan at it I thought if I'm

01:23:06   I'm gonna do this.

01:23:08   I'm at least gonna cut out as much Jar Jar

01:23:10   as I possibly can.

01:23:12   And so I offered, I said, okay, we can watch the,

01:23:15   and he said, nah, I'm okay.

01:23:17   - You realize that this is a lot like,

01:23:20   it's a lot like a religious cult.

01:23:23   (laughing)

01:23:26   Right, like where you're raising your son

01:23:31   to not believe in Jar Jar.

01:23:33   - That's right.

01:23:34   Well, I don't think I'm wrong.

01:23:36   No jury in the world would convict me.

01:23:38   Right, but imagine how this could play out, though,

01:23:41   over the decades, where let's say he does agree

01:23:43   to watch with you.

01:23:44   And you guys watch The Phantom Menace,

01:23:48   but you watch your fan edit cut.

01:23:52   And I'm not doubting that that fan edit cut is probably

01:23:54   a better picture.

01:23:56   And it might be a really great experience

01:23:58   if you've never seen the Lucas cut.

01:24:01   But then imagine like 30 years from now--

01:24:04   He sees the Lucas cut.

01:24:05   And he's talking to somebody of similar age.

01:24:08   And they're like, remember that Jar Jar.

01:24:10   And he's like, what the hell are you talking about?

01:24:12   - He's only in it for like five minutes.

01:24:14   Why are you railing it?

01:24:15   Why are you railing it?

01:24:15   It's Jar Jar.

01:24:16   He's like in the background and he's not even doing anything.

01:24:21   Cut out all of his ridiculous antics.

01:24:25   - I saw him.

01:24:27   - But so he didn't want us, he didn't want us.

01:24:30   He was kind of done.

01:24:32   And then since like, as I thought,

01:24:34   oh well after the rebels thing,

01:24:36   the guy was like oh he likes the animated stuff,

01:24:39   maybe he'll watch Rebels and now he's like no, no.

01:24:42   It's like he's moved, it's like he's moved on.

01:24:44   But he might be, he might be coming around

01:24:49   to the movie though, so I'm hoping that's gonna happen.

01:24:52   - Yeah, maybe Disney might solve this problem for you,

01:24:55   but they'll just bombard him with the marketing and--

01:24:58   - That's right, yeah, and other kids at school too.

01:25:02   - Right, exactly.

01:25:03   I think that might happen as well.

01:25:04   - But also largely partly due to Disney.

01:25:07   I feel like Disney knows how to...

01:25:09   Like it's a good thing Disney doesn't try to sell cigarettes.

01:25:13   - Yeah, he was in, yeah really,

01:25:16   he was in the hospital for a few days and he's fine now.

01:25:20   But when he was, well he was sick,

01:25:23   and this was just like last month,

01:25:25   or no, this is currently still this month,

01:25:27   but when this airs, it will have been last month.

01:25:32   started watching James Bond movies. Which he had not seen before. And I had offered,

01:25:38   I think I had offered once or twice before, but he was not, you know, he had not, he didn't really

01:25:42   know enough James Bond to be interested. But I think one of them just ended up being on the

01:25:47   hospital TV and he started watching it and liked it. And so we watched, I think we saw three of the

01:25:54   Pierce Brosnan, and then we watched both of the Timothy Dalton and a bunch of Roger Moore. And

01:26:00   that was as far as we got.

01:26:02   But he's seen like now, I mean, you know, in the span of like

01:26:06   three weeks he's seen

01:26:10   a great swath of James Bond that he had never seen before and he liked him.

01:26:13   He thought that and I think because he was sick, so when we got home

01:26:17   I showed, I started showing him

01:26:19   Casino Royale

01:26:23   and

01:26:24   I think that

01:26:26   it's updated and sort of more realistic

01:26:29   tone was not as comforting to him as like the slow pace of the older ones. Like being

01:26:39   sick, he wanted something that, you know, Roger Moore running around in pants up to

01:26:46   his chest in the 80s was kind of something that was kind of comforting.

01:26:49   Yeah, the Roger Moore ones, and again, they're probably in hindsight, and as time goes on,

01:26:54   they're my least favorite. But I love them though, because they were the new ones when

01:26:58   when I was a kid.

01:27:00   And it's funny because to me as a kid,

01:27:04   the Roger Moore ones looked just crackled with newness,

01:27:08   like just like an unopened package from a company,

01:27:13   an unopened Apple product, they just seemed new.

01:27:17   And the Connery ones seemed old,

01:27:19   like in the way that everything in Star Wars

01:27:22   was meant to look old, like the Millennium Falcon.

01:27:24   And it's just ridiculous 'cause it was only a difference

01:27:27   like 10 years, but I could just see the difference.

01:27:29   I could see that the suits that Connery was wearing

01:27:33   aren't in style today, whatever year, 1979 or '80

01:27:37   or whatever I was watching.

01:27:39   I was like, it looks so '60s, it looks ancient.

01:27:42   Because it just seemed to me like,

01:27:43   like when I was a kid, when I was a 10-year-old kid,

01:27:45   the '60s seemed longer ago than they do to me today.

01:27:49   'Cause when you're a kid, your sense of time is so acute

01:27:55   and your sense of newness and currency and stuff like that.

01:27:59   And I just love the more ones.

01:28:01   But even in hindsight, now that the more ones look dated

01:28:04   and I think probably are the most dated of any of them,

01:28:08   'cause they were like the ones that I feel like

01:28:10   were just the most faddish.

01:28:12   - Yeah, his outfits and a lot of those are just hysterical.

01:28:17   Even the earlier ones.

01:28:19   I mean, by the time it gets to the 80s,

01:28:21   he's just so old that it's kind of painful.

01:28:26   - I kind of excuse it because I think the '70s

01:28:29   were a really odd decade where it would have been

01:28:34   very difficult for them to dress him

01:28:38   in a more timeless fashion.

01:28:42   Like I feel like you can get away with that

01:28:44   in most of the-- - It wasn't cool.

01:28:46   - Yeah, and it was so decidedly uncool

01:28:48   that it just couldn't be done.

01:28:50   But overall, the more ones, to me, they just go down like ice

01:28:55   cream on a hot day.

01:28:58   You don't have to work to get into them at all.

01:29:02   And they don't ask you to accept anything unpleasant.

01:29:07   There's a nasty edge to the Connery ones.

01:29:10   Certainly in terms of the content, there's nothing that--

01:29:12   it's really alarming, and they're not particularly

01:29:14   violent because of when they were made,

01:29:15   or at least in terms of what's actually shown on screen.

01:29:19   But there's a certain nasty undertone to Connery's Bond.

01:29:22   Yes.

01:29:23   Yeah.

01:29:24   Yeah.

01:29:24   And Moore's was much more relaxed.

01:29:27   I've always said, too, like talking about these,

01:29:29   one of the things is that with Moore,

01:29:31   he played it in a way that there was a sense that he knew

01:29:36   he was James Bond and had already read the script

01:29:39   and knew that he was going to-- he knew that no matter what

01:29:41   predicament he was in at the moment,

01:29:44   hey, I know where the third act ends.

01:29:45   I'm in a raft on the ocean with a beautiful girl.

01:29:48   (laughing)

01:29:49   - It's all gonna be okay.

01:29:50   - Yeah.

01:29:51   Like he just always played it as a guy

01:29:56   who had already read the end of the script

01:29:58   and knew where this was going.

01:30:00   - There's still, I mean, there's one of them

01:30:02   and I can't remember, I wanna say for your eyes only,

01:30:05   but like where he slaps the female,

01:30:10   - Oh yeah. - The woman around

01:30:14   And it's really kind of threatening to her.

01:30:19   And then of course they end up.

01:30:22   (laughing)

01:30:24   It's like, oh come on.

01:30:26   - In the sack. - Nice.

01:30:29   - Yeah, that's our Nogues.

01:30:30   I don't remember which, they blur together.

01:30:33   But it might be for your eyes only.

01:30:35   And it's a scene that seems,

01:30:39   you wouldn't have really thought,

01:30:40   well you might have,

01:30:42   you would have thought twice about it.

01:30:43   but it would have felt natural for Connery's bond to do it.

01:30:48   And it really felt out of place with Roger Moore's.

01:30:52   Not even that Roger Moore as an actor couldn't do it,

01:30:55   but it just didn't go along with the rest

01:30:59   of how he played the character.

01:31:01   - Right.

01:31:02   (laughing)

01:31:06   - Just be clear here that you've,

01:31:12   Your parenting is such that you've never allowed your son

01:31:15   to see the PG--

01:31:18   - Yeah, this is why I draw the line.

01:31:20   - Jar Jar Binks, you've drawn the line.

01:31:23   - That's too far.

01:31:24   - James Bond slapping--

01:31:27   - Wanton misogyny, A-OK.

01:31:31   - Violent misogyny.

01:31:33   - Yeah.

01:31:33   - That's okay.

01:31:35   All right, let me take a break here before we wrap it up.

01:31:39   I have one more sponsor to thank,

01:31:41   and it's our good friends at Harry's.

01:31:42   Now, here's the thing, this is the time of year.

01:31:44   I get very stressed,

01:31:46   'cause you gotta start buying gifts for people.

01:31:48   I find gift giving, and I'm not joking here,

01:31:50   I find it incredibly stressful.

01:31:52   I never know what to buy anybody.

01:31:54   And I get all stressed out, and then I put it off,

01:31:57   I procrastinate because I'm stressed out,

01:31:59   and then come December 23rd or so, it's just a disaster,

01:32:04   and I wind up buying everybody's stuff from 7-Eleven.

01:32:09   I'm really a terrible gift giver.

01:32:11   Here's an easy solution though.

01:32:14   If you can find anybody,

01:32:15   if you have anybody on your shopping list

01:32:17   who you might wanna buy like a Harry's shaving kit for,

01:32:20   it's a great idea.

01:32:22   It is really nice.

01:32:23   It's great in every way

01:32:24   'cause A, it's a high quality product.

01:32:26   B, it comes in great packaging so it looks nice

01:32:30   and then you look like somebody who gives thoughtful,

01:32:32   well-designed, stylish stuff.

01:32:34   And C, it's really, really remarkably competitively priced,

01:32:39   way lower than shaving stuff from Gillette or anything like that. So you

01:32:44   got like a dad, a brother, a husband, boyfriend, any kind of maybe like even if

01:32:51   your work has like a Secret Santa type thing, just go to Harry's.com and check

01:32:54   out their shaving sets. And if you don't have one yourself you could do that too.

01:33:00   They sent me their holiday set. They've got this holiday set and it's great. I

01:33:06   I actually hadn't had a new Harry's kit for years

01:33:09   because they sent me the first one years ago

01:33:11   when they first started sponsoring the show

01:33:12   and I still have that same original Harry's handle

01:33:16   which still looks brand new.

01:33:18   All I've ever done from them is just keep buying new blades

01:33:21   because that's all I've ever needed to replace.

01:33:24   Well, they sent me this Harry, this holiday set

01:33:26   just so I could see it, so I know what I'm talking about.

01:33:30   And it's great.

01:33:31   It is everything I like about Harry's.

01:33:33   It's a great handle, great blades,

01:33:34   comes with some shaving cream

01:33:37   in a really, really gorgeously designed package.

01:33:41   Again, I've said this many times before,

01:33:42   and I mean it, it's the sort of packaging

01:33:44   where the pack rat in me hates to throw it out

01:33:47   because it is so nice.

01:33:49   And it's even just little things,

01:33:50   like when you open their stuff,

01:33:51   you don't have to rip it open to do it.

01:33:54   It's all nice folding boxes that fold back together,

01:33:57   and it just makes you not even want

01:33:59   to throw away the packaging.

01:34:00   Go to harrys.com.

01:34:03   Remember my code, talk show, that'll save you $5 off your first order.

01:34:07   And if you're doing this for the holidays, they've got free shipping.

01:34:12   And that ends on December 10th.

01:34:15   So as I speak right now, that gives you about a week and a half.

01:34:18   So just act now.

01:34:21   You'll save on shipping.

01:34:22   It'll get here on time.

01:34:26   You don't have to worry about it.

01:34:27   And then you'll have the peace of mind and

01:34:29   just one less item of gift giving stress on your mind.

01:34:33   So just remember that, free shipping until December 10th, 2015.

01:34:38   So my thanks to Harry's.

01:34:39   What else we got?

01:34:41   We gotta wrap it up.

01:34:42   Seems like somebody asked my answer.

01:34:45   >> I think I was actually thinking of the man with the golden gun,

01:34:47   just to be clear.

01:34:48   >> Yeah, you know what?

01:34:49   Now that you say that, that makes sense.

01:34:51   That does make sense.

01:34:51   >> And the one, what was the other one I mentioned?

01:34:54   For your eyes only, is the one that looks like it has incredibly cheap production

01:34:59   values.

01:35:00   >> Yeah, I think that was one of the- >> I think that's the cheesiest of them.

01:35:03   The Man with the Golden Gun ends with a climactic fistfight between Roger Moore and Herve Villages, who was a little person.

01:35:15   James Bond chasing a little person around the master bedroom on a yacht.

01:35:21   It's also got, see that one has,

01:35:24   not only does it have misogyny in it,

01:35:25   it has racism played off for laughs

01:35:29   because it's got that southern sheriff guy in Thailand.

01:35:35   - Right. - Yeah.

01:35:37   And some of the things that he says are just awful.

01:35:40   God.

01:35:42   - Really bad.

01:35:43   - It's just terrible.

01:35:44   - That was an odd decision to bring that guy back

01:35:48   because he was--

01:35:49   (laughing)

01:35:50   I guess people really--

01:35:53   - The racist Southern sheriff was so popular in--

01:35:56   - Right. (laughing)

01:35:58   Let's bring him back again.

01:36:01   - What was he in, what was the first one he was in?

01:36:03   It was the one with the Paul McCartney theme song.

01:36:06   - Live and Let Die.

01:36:08   - Yeah, Live and Let Die.

01:36:10   That they had to bring him back.

01:36:12   Who they've brought back when they've brought people back

01:36:15   is always interesting.

01:36:17   I can't believe you don't have Star Wars tickets.

01:36:20   - I'm probably gonna regret that,

01:36:21   but I'm regretting it already, actually.

01:36:24   - Anything else?

01:36:27   Trying to think if there's any other news this week.

01:36:29   I don't really think so.

01:36:30   Little slow.

01:36:31   - Did you read, did you see the Frasier Spears post?

01:36:35   - No.

01:36:36   What was it on?

01:36:37   iPad Pro?

01:36:38   - iPad Pro, yeah.

01:36:40   - Yeah, what did he say?

01:36:41   - Let me, let me pull it up here.

01:36:46   Can the MacBook Pro replace your iPad?

01:36:48   (laughing)

01:36:51   It's very clever.

01:36:52   - Oh, that's, that's, I can tell where he's going.

01:36:56   - Yeah, I mean, the rest of it basically goes

01:36:59   (laughing)

01:36:59   along those lines.

01:37:01   - Oh, I should send, I'm gonna put this

01:37:03   in the show notes too.

01:37:04   I don't, I forget if I link to this on my site or not.

01:37:07   Sometimes it's like when I have something to link to,

01:37:09   I forget if I ever get to it or not,

01:37:11   if it's not real important, but there was a,

01:37:16   This sounds like it's exactly the same sort of thing.

01:37:18   It's a review of a gasoline-powered internal

01:37:23   combustion engine car from the perspective of a Tesla owner.

01:37:27   [LAUGHTER]

01:37:31   Oh my god, it is so great.

01:37:33   Gas car-- I'll put it in the show notes

01:37:36   so you can find it there.

01:37:37   OK.

01:37:39   This sounds like it's of a similar angle, which

01:37:42   is kind of genius.

01:37:44   I mean, you've seen a lot of posts about,

01:37:48   I mean, particularly because of the things

01:37:50   that Tim Cook said about whether or not an iPad Pro

01:37:52   can be used for serious work,

01:37:53   and you've probably discussed this many times,

01:37:55   but it seems like that was something

01:38:00   that we settled a long time ago,

01:38:03   and people are still trying to make this an argument.

01:38:06   - If you're an artist, note-taker, or teacher,

01:38:09   you're going to really struggle without the native ability

01:38:12   to use an Apple Pencil on the screen.

01:38:14   (laughing)

01:38:16   Oh, that's good, that's really good.

01:38:19   - And how are you gonna use it standing up?

01:38:20   You can't.

01:38:22   It's very difficult to use a MacBook Pro while standing.

01:38:25   Downright dangerous to use one when walking around.

01:38:30   - If you are a road warrior,

01:38:34   the MacBook Pro's total lack of cellular connectivity options

01:38:37   would be a serious hindrance to a proud man.

01:38:39   (laughing)

01:38:41   That's really good.

01:38:43   Alright, I don't think there's anything else.

01:38:48   Unless you can think of something.

01:38:53   No. We'll show movies for another hour and a half.

01:38:56   Yeah, no, maybe not. Maybe next time.

01:38:58   Okay, next time.

01:39:00   John Moltz, people can get all the Moltz they want on Twitter.

01:39:06   And then some.

01:39:07   that's @moltz and then they can see your very fine website. Very nice, very nice

01:39:16   website. Very also it's also very fine but it's but it's mostly very nice

01:39:19   website at verynicewebsite.net. Right and your podcasts, your regular

01:39:26   podcasts are... I do 48 podcasts. You know what, Snell's got you beat. Oh yeah, no,

01:39:32   there's no competing with Snell. I've got a theory, I wanted to bring

01:39:36   Oh, he was just on the show and I thought about it and I just didn't want to I don't want to make him

01:39:40   uncomfortable but I did it has occurred to me that Snell might be a uh remember that movie The Prestige?

01:39:46   Uh yeah. Yeah and I kind of don't want to spoil it for anybody who hasn't watched The Prestige

01:39:53   but I'll just say this. I haven't seen it in a while so I'll have to refresh my memory. Yeah

01:39:56   but I think it might be a prestige type scenario if you know what I mean. Okay. It'll make sense

01:40:03   to people who've seen the prestige.

01:40:04   - Okay, okay.

01:40:05   - Or should I just spoil it?

01:40:07   (laughing)

01:40:10   - No, you're not gonna do it?

01:40:11   - No.

01:40:13   - All right, then I won't, yeah.

01:40:14   - Do you know what though?

01:40:15   - You don't want Star Wars spoilers,

01:40:16   people don't want the prestige spoilers.

01:40:18   - Right.

01:40:20   I do think, I should say this before I wrap up,

01:40:22   I keep forgetting to do stuff like this.

01:40:24   A lot of times I wanna tell people who listen to,

01:40:26   I don't wanna talk to you.

01:40:27   I get so caught up talking to the guests

01:40:29   that I forget to talk to the audience.

01:40:30   I wanna talk to the audiences for a second

01:40:32   just say that I'm thinking about talking about Spectre

01:40:36   on an upcoming show.

01:40:38   And it's not going to quite be the old way that it was with Dan

01:40:40   where we really do a point by point review of the movie.

01:40:43   But there's stuff I want to talk about with that.

01:40:45   And I haven't talked about Skyfall either.

01:40:50   But I might.

01:40:51   And so if you're thinking about--

01:40:53   if you want to listen to it while it's fresh,

01:40:57   and you've been procrastinating on going to the theaters

01:40:59   to see Spectre, you should stop and your homework for the talk show is to go see Spectre.

01:41:04   Okay, I'll have to do that.

01:41:07   And then no one will be mad when I actually do it.

01:41:09   And then they can't.

01:41:12   Is it going to be with Jonas?

01:41:15   I haven't decided.

01:41:16   That's a possibility.

01:41:17   I mean, I did go see it with Jonas.

01:41:19   It's a possibility.

01:41:20   I haven't decided what to do.

01:41:21   It's got to be something different.

01:41:22   That would certainly be different.

01:41:24   That would definitely be different.

01:41:26   Not unprecedented he's been on the show before.

01:41:28   Yeah.

01:41:29   He was pretty young when he did it too, because it was back all the way back with Dan.

01:41:33   I have to say this, one time we were at Shake Shack

01:41:37   here in Philly, and this was like a year or two ago, and a guy came up and he said

01:41:41   "Hey, are you John Gruber?" And then I was like "Yeah, yeah."

01:41:45   And he was like "Oh, I love your podcast." And he turned right to Jonash and he goes "And you were great on the podcast."

01:41:49   That was one of my favorite episodes that I've ever had.

01:41:53   And it was a very nice guy and it wasn't weird at all. He did it very, very good.

01:41:57   That's very cool.

01:41:58   That's nice.

01:41:59   Yeah.

01:42:00   Do you see this thing?

01:42:01   I got one more thing.

01:42:02   Do you see the thing with the Amazon, their new thing with the Prime Air drone?

01:42:07   No.

01:42:08   Oh, I have to put it in the show notes.

01:42:12   They've released a YouTube video and they've got... showing their latest generation actual

01:42:21   working prototype Prime delivery drone.

01:42:25   Oh, this is their Cyber Monday thing or or I guess but it's it's kind of cool. What's cool, too

01:42:30   I don't know how close they are to legally being allowed to

01:42:33   To actually use this but they're saying that what is actually shown in the video

01:42:37   It's not like they've it's like a CGI or anything. It's an actual device doing what they're saying is being done in the video

01:42:43   Which in and of itself is cool because it's you know, it's a real thing

01:42:47   But the really cool thing I thought and really interesting is that the video is narrated by Jeremy Clarkson

01:42:54   the ex-Top Gear host who had a couple of drinks and a steak and punched his producer.

01:43:05   It happens. You know what? It does happen. It does. I don't know. I still feel like with that

01:43:13   story and then they had what they call in England, they sacked him because he punched his producer.

01:43:19   I say though, you don't know. I don't know that we've ever gotten a full story on that. There are

01:43:24   of times when somebody needs a punch. So, who knows? You do not know what he was driven to.

01:43:29   You don't know. But it makes for a great video, though, because obviously part of what made that

01:43:34   whole thing sensational is that Top Gear is a well-deserved and much beloved TV show.

01:43:39   And this video is sort of done with that same sort of style. And, you know, it just has--it's

01:43:46   not just because he's hosting it. It just has that same sort of feel and touch. And it really--it's

01:43:51   It's something I never even considered when I found out

01:43:54   that Amazon had won the bidding to get Jeremy Clarkson

01:43:58   to do an, I guess it's still as yet unnamed,

01:44:01   car show for Prime Video, or whatever they call their

01:44:06   video service for subscribers.

01:44:08   When they did that, I thought, okay,

01:44:11   so now they're gonna get what used to be called Top Gear,

01:44:13   they're gonna get it, you know,

01:44:15   and you have to be a Prime subscriber to see it.

01:44:17   I'm looking forward to seeing it.

01:44:19   Didn't really occur to me that they would take use of that

01:44:21   and sort of turn him into like an in-house spokesperson

01:44:25   and the same video team and to be able to do that,

01:44:28   which is incredibly valuable 'cause it's so good.

01:44:32   It's so well done.

01:44:33   I'll put the video in the show note,

01:44:34   but it's really, really good.

01:44:36   It's not just interesting like, wow,

01:44:38   they have a robot that can fly through the air

01:44:39   and drop packages at your house, which is a cool idea,

01:44:43   but I really think it's fascinating to me now

01:44:45   that Amazon has the top gear host and production team

01:44:49   an in-house marketing team. It really ups the value of their stuff.

01:44:54   I don't know if there's a rumor or what, but Amazon's Prime Video

01:45:00   is now coming to the Apple TV? Yeah, yeah. If we prepared for the show at all.

01:45:06   Right, right, right. We could have talked about that for an hour.

01:45:10   We'll just drop that at the end. Long story short, somebody wrote to Amazon to

01:45:14   complain about the fact that there's no Prime Video app on Apple TV and they got

01:45:19   And the answer that didn't seem to go through like any sort of official channels, but somebody sits at Amazon ropak and said that we're working on it

01:45:26   Which if true is good to know

01:45:30   But I took that with a huge grain of salt because it did not seem to come from

01:45:34   It just didn't write to me. It seemed like somebody who was just like well like, you know

01:45:40   We're working on it. We are if we have an iPad app, I guess we're having I don't know could happen

01:45:47   But anyway, who knows I guess it's more hope though than we've had before so it would be nice

01:45:51   Yeah, they did it because there's good stuff on Amazon that you know is exclusive, right?

01:45:55   What do they call this thing prime prime air video with Jeremy Clarkson, so I'll put that in the show notes - that's pretty good

01:46:04   All right, John, thank you very much. Thank you. Talk to you soon. Okay, but but

01:46:12   Bye.

01:46:12   [ Silence ]