The Talk Show

134: ‘Field Sobriety Test’ With Guy English


00:00:00   Yeah, we could get right into it.

00:00:01   So how long-- when did you--

00:00:02   you had the dev kit for Apple TV?

00:00:05   Yes.

00:00:08   And what's the story?

00:00:09   I mean, I guess it doesn't matter.

00:00:11   I'm curious, I did not get the dev kit.

00:00:13   And I guess I should have signed up for it.

00:00:15   I just assumed that I would get a review unit.

00:00:19   But they didn't.

00:00:20   I didn't get one until yesterday.

00:00:22   So we're recording here on Friday, October 30.

00:00:25   I got mine from Apple yesterday on the 29th.

00:00:28   And I don't think I've touched one.

00:00:30   Yeah, no I haven't since the event last month.

00:00:32   - Yeah, you got kind of a host bid on that.

00:00:35   'Cause a lot of press outlets just signed up and got one.

00:00:40   - Yeah, well, is that what happened?

00:00:42   But I think a lot of them did get review units too.

00:00:44   And I just, you know, it seems haphazard.

00:00:47   Doesn't seem like there was any rhyme or reason to it.

00:00:49   Like who got one and who didn't?

00:00:51   Like TechCrunch didn't get it until yesterday either.

00:00:55   - Oh yeah? - Yeah.

00:00:57   I don't think I don't know if Renee got one. No, he didn't

00:01:00   Serenity did. Oh, really? Well, she had access to one I know that. Ah

00:01:05   Yeah, it's such a weird thing. Like it's meta. It's so inside baseball, but I guess that's what the point of podcasts is. Yeah

00:01:13   Is that it was the least secretive device?

00:01:18   Give once it was unveiled, you know, so there's it was unveiled on stage in September

00:01:24   I think they did a pretty good job keeping it under wraps.

00:01:26   Everybody knew that a new Apple TV was coming,

00:01:28   but nobody had screenshots or anything.

00:01:31   Nobody knew what the remote was exactly like.

00:01:35   No, it hurt stuff, but nothing.

00:01:38   I mean, I know people who'd seen them,

00:01:40   but nobody even told me what they look like.

00:01:42   Right, but then they started taking the developer requests the next day,

00:01:48   and some people started getting them a week later.

00:01:51   And I guess you were under an NDA based on your ADC account,

00:01:56   and that you weren't supposed to write about it, but it certainly wasn't a well-kept secret.

00:02:01   There was an additional NDA that came with the devkit.

00:02:05   Like a new NDA.

00:02:08   Yeah, that told you not to do anything with this devkit.

00:02:10   Right.

00:02:13   I'd like to talk about it.

00:02:13   My favorite...

00:02:15   It just never works.

00:02:16   Well, the best example of that would be the iFixit guys

00:02:17   who signed up for the devkit, agreed to an NDA,

00:02:20   And that as soon as it came, they took it apart and published their take-apart.

00:02:25   I was pretty frustrated, actually.

00:02:33   Defqits are a very rare thing for Apple to do.

00:02:38   Right.

00:02:40   And it's like, we don't want to piss them off and make them not do it.

00:02:41   I think it's great that they did this.

00:02:45   Yeah, I think it's great, too.

00:02:47   I think it was a mistake to sell them for a buck.

00:02:47   They should have been like double, triple the price of what the actual shipping unit was going to be.

00:02:51   Yeah, why do you think they did it that way?

00:02:53   Well, I think they wanted everybody to get as frictionless as possible

00:02:58   and encourage people to work on their awesome platform.

00:03:02   They probably have to charge a dollar for some reason, you know?

00:03:06   Yeah, like maybe in a way that Steve Jobs had to take a $1 salary,

00:03:11   I think there was some kind of legal requirement.

00:03:14   Yeah, accounting or...

00:03:16   pay your CEO or something like that. I swear that it was something like that.

00:03:21   And maybe it was something like that too where they have to sell it for some amount of money.

00:03:24   Just to account for it in some way other than...

00:03:28   Anyway, so...

00:03:30   Welcome to the talk show, America's favorite accounting...

00:03:33   Accounting...

00:03:37   talk show.

00:03:39   We're sponsored this week by Salesforce.

00:03:42   No, so anyway though, they had these out there.

00:03:44   Lots of journalists and writers bought them,

00:03:47   even though they weren't going to develop apps on them.

00:03:49   And I guess they mostly stuck to the NDA,

00:03:50   but it wasn't like it was tough to get.

00:03:52   But then the reviews all, there was clearly

00:03:56   like some number of people,

00:03:57   just like with every other Apple device,

00:03:59   iPhones and iPads, that they got pre-release access to them,

00:04:04   probably about a week before.

00:04:06   And then the embargo was clearly,

00:04:11   I think it was six o'clock Eastern on Wednesday,

00:04:14   'cause all of a sudden--

00:04:15   - And what he had to review up.

00:04:17   - Right, and I was actually out at having dinner

00:04:20   with our friend Whiskus and Brady Harron,

00:04:25   you know, the guy from Hello Internet.

00:04:29   He's over here in the States.

00:04:30   And we were out and it was like all of a sudden,

00:04:33   we were talking about the fact that there were no reviews

00:04:35   of the Apple TV and then we were at dinner

00:04:38   and then all of a sudden it was like,

00:04:40   of a sudden there were like 15 reviews of Apple TV. But it was weird like, you know,

00:04:45   iMore wasn't on that list, TechCrunch wasn't on the list. It's very strange.

00:04:51   I guess the actual was, which makes sense, I think.

00:04:54   Yeah.

00:04:55   It's like a lot of media stuff that they cover. And Christina's pretty... she's been kicking

00:05:00   ass recently.

00:05:01   Yeah, I just actually, just before we started recording, I actually just linked to her review.

00:05:04   It's the only one I've read completely and just linked to it because I thought she nailed

00:05:09   I was like boy, that's every single thing there is about it. Yeah. Yeah, and she's been getting good interviews and stuff recently - yeah

00:05:16   Yeah, cuz well who she disinterview Johnny I've

00:05:20   Johnny I've and I'm gonna blank on it now. I

00:05:23   Don't know should have been a note right well, and she did and she got to she's the one who got access to

00:05:29   when Tim Cook did the meet-and-greet with the

00:05:34   the teenagers at WWDC

00:05:36   Yeah, she went and covered that. And I think that was an impromptu conversation, really.

00:05:44   I think it might have been, but I think it was right place, right time.

00:05:49   Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's good reporting.

00:05:53   So, I know you've only had it a day. I've had mine longer.

00:06:01   I guess I can talk about that. But whatever. I have.

00:06:05   Well, I am actually mad.

00:06:09   Because if they don't do another dev kit, I'm going to be sad.

00:06:13   This is my question for you. My question, before we go on to it, is what was your experience like?

00:06:17   Have you been able to upgrade from the betas of the OS to the GM?

00:06:22   Yeah. It's dead easy.

00:06:26   But it didn't require using the diagnostic port, or it did?

00:06:30   does if you can't wear by diagnostic port I mean they'd USB port but they

00:06:34   even tell you in the instructions they're like USB C port and then they're

00:06:38   like this is only used for diagnostics yeah well you know flashing in OS on to

00:06:44   your things counts I guess you just go to the website you download the package

00:06:49   like the OS package and then you connect iTunes to it and it shows up in iTunes

00:06:56   And then you just, what is it, like option click restore,

00:07:01   and use the package you've got.

00:07:03   - Right, so it's exactly like doing it with a phone.

00:07:06   - Yeah, it's identical.

00:07:06   - So you connect it to your Mac with USB,

00:07:11   like when you connect a phone,

00:07:13   and then you can just do it from the iTunes app.

00:07:15   - Yeah, and it's a USB-C, which is like,

00:07:18   one of the first times I've been super thankful

00:07:20   that I've owned a MacBook, 'cause I'm like,

00:07:22   "Oh, look, it just works."

00:07:23   I don't have to worry about anything.

00:07:26   Yeah, so I guess if your computer was a MacBook, the new MacBook One port thing, you would

00:07:33   have to have a USB-C to USB-C cable.

00:07:36   Yeah, that's what I did.

00:07:38   Oh, really?

00:07:39   Yeah, yeah.

00:07:40   So I've got a...

00:07:42   I mean, when I bought the MacBook, I bought two little adapter things, like one for USB-C

00:07:47   and one that turns USB-C into...

00:07:49   It's the HDMI out, and it has a USB port.

00:07:53   So when did the App Store go live?

00:07:58   Yesterday.

00:08:02   Okay.

00:08:03   I couldn't tell you what time, but I think about noon.

00:08:04   Because what we had to do was, so we had a GM candidate for the past few days.

00:08:06   Then to get the App Store, and this was kind of confusing, we needed to re-download the OS

00:08:14   and flash that back onto the device for the App Store to show up.

00:08:20   But if I'm not mistaken, I think the version numbers are identical.

00:08:23   Huh? I wonder what they flipped one switch or I don't know exactly what they did,

00:08:28   but whatever. Like right now, mine is,

00:08:31   is if I just got out of a box from a store.

00:08:33   Huh? So it's exactly the same.

00:08:39   As mine setting is. Yeah.

00:08:41   All right. So first run experience. Pretty cool.

00:08:48   the way that they do the, if you want to,

00:08:52   just unlock your iPhone and get it near the Apple TV.

00:08:57   - That is the way computers should work, like all of them.

00:09:02   If you can do it with Macs, do it with Macs, just do it.

00:09:06   - And it doesn't transfer everything,

00:09:10   but it certainly gets you most of the way there.

00:09:13   And just getting it so that it's on your WiFi is huge.

00:09:17   Yeah.

00:09:17   Like you just wave your, it's basically magic.

00:09:21   And I know that's way overused when you talk

00:09:22   about Apple stuff, but you take your phone, you

00:09:24   put it close to your box and the older ones did

00:09:26   this too, but it's just cool to have a new thing.

00:09:30   Um, and it would just say, yeah, connecting to

00:09:33   the network and it logs you in, it's got all

00:09:35   the passwords, uh, it's got your iCloud

00:09:38   information.

00:09:38   So your, uh, your, what are you calling it now?

00:09:43   Apple ID.

00:09:44   Your Apple ID.

00:09:45   Thank you.

00:09:46   Yeah.

00:09:46   All your Apple ID stuff is over. So you've got all the Game Center stuff set up.

00:09:51   You've got your photos. All of that is just done.

00:09:55   And it's amazing. Because passwords are a pain in the ass to type.

00:10:00   Anyway. Let alone on a crazy keyboard thing.

00:10:04   I did have to enter my Apple ID password, though, one time to enable purchases.

00:10:13   Yeah, I think I did that too.

00:10:17   And I can see why. It's sort of like, I think the same logic

00:10:21   the way that when you restart your iPhone, you have to enter the password

00:10:25   once before you can go back to just using touch ID.

00:10:29   Yeah, I think the notion is that you can unlock the device, but if you're

00:10:33   going to do any real monetary damage, it wants to make

00:10:37   sure that you are who you say you are.

00:10:41   - I wonder, you know, and I, yeah, it's like they,

00:10:44   before you can do, yeah, exactly what you said,

00:10:47   monetary damage, you've really gotta enter your password.

00:10:51   I guess I can see the logic behind that,

00:10:53   but entering a password on the goddamn TV is so,

00:10:55   it's still such a pain in the ass.

00:10:57   I still am tempted to suggest that maybe you should be able

00:11:00   to use Touch ID on your phone, but there's, you know,

00:11:04   I guess, you know what I mean?

00:11:08   Like if it's somehow, if somehow it would,

00:11:11   it would send you an alert.

00:11:13   Like the way that like with our family sharing,

00:11:15   if Jonas wants to get an app,

00:11:18   me and Amy get these alerts that say,

00:11:21   hey, Jonas, who's a member of, you know,

00:11:23   a kid in your family sharing plan wants to get this app,

00:11:26   whatever the name of the app is, is this okay?

00:11:28   And actually, I guess I think they actually stopped

00:11:33   letting you use touch ID for that though,

00:11:34   now that I think about it.

00:11:35   I think now you have to enter your password on the phone.

00:11:38   - Hmm. - Hmm.

00:11:40   I guess maybe what I wish you could do with the Apple TV, and maybe you can, is maybe somehow use the...

00:11:45   maybe you can... can you still use the old remote app to enter passwords?

00:11:48   I think the old remote app is bust.

00:11:52   The old remote, physical remote, works, which is interesting.

00:11:55   Oh, does it? The IR one?

00:11:57   No, I didn't know that.

00:11:58   Yeah, I did it by accident and it totally worked. Look at that.

00:12:01   Until you start tapping and clicking and dragging your finger around.

00:12:04   Exactly.

00:12:05   That's actually funny.

00:12:07   Yeah, I don't know about that.

00:12:10   So, after you enter that password, then they ask you,

00:12:13   "Do you want to use this password?"

00:12:15   "Do you want me to prompt you for the password?" "Never?"

00:12:19   I don't know what it is. I think it's like, yeah, it's like

00:12:24   your three options are

00:12:26   "Don't ever ask me for my password again. Just let me buy stuff."

00:12:30   Which, I don't know about you, but

00:12:32   that's what I do. Yeah, well that's what I do too, and I'm lucky. I definitely

00:12:36   understand why some parents wouldn't be able to do that, but Jonas is super trustworthy

00:12:39   with stuff like that. And even if he decided to risk it, he's only going to get away with

00:12:45   it once.

00:12:45   Exactly.

00:12:46   But it's so much more convenient, and I'm not worried, you know what I mean? Unlike

00:12:53   a device that's in your pocket that you might leave in a cab or something like that, your

00:12:56   Apple TV is not leaving your home.

00:12:57   It's in your living room. It's a safe place.

00:13:00   Right. If somebody who I don't trust is operating my Apple TV, I've got bigger problems now.

00:13:05   than if they're going to buy movies that I don't want.

00:13:09   Wouldn't that be like the ultimate dick move for a burglar?

00:13:13   Before he disconnects your Apple TV to rip it off and steal your TV set,

00:13:17   before he takes it, he just quick logs in

00:13:21   and buys some shitty movies. Like, subscribes you to all the Adam Sandler movies

00:13:25   or something like that. And then leaves the house. So not only did you

00:13:29   get burgled, you got stuck footing a bill for a bunch of movies you didn't like.

00:13:33   That actually sounds like a scene out of an Adam Sandler movie.

00:13:36   I think we're onto something here.

00:13:41   It buys you a bunch of albums on Apple Music that you don't want to.

00:13:49   It signs you up to Apple Music.

00:13:52   So anyway, first run experience. I feel like I've already complained too much.

00:14:03   I still want it to be better, but it's so good. It is such a better experience than any other first-run experience I've ever seen.

00:14:11   So I've done it manually quite a bit, because earlier betas didn't have...

00:14:18   Well, I think they had it, but they told you it was pretty flaky, so I didn't use it.

00:14:22   And man, it's a pain in the ass when you...

00:14:25   Sorry, I shouldn't say it's a pain in the ass. Comparatively, it's night and day.

00:14:29   I mean, laboriously entering in all your email addresses

00:14:33   and you gotta do it for a few different things.

00:14:36   It's a huge pain in the ass.

00:14:38   You have a wifi network, that sucks.

00:14:40   This was amazing.

00:14:42   It was the first time I tried it yesterday.

00:14:45   It was the first time I tried the Bluetooth Magic

00:14:47   and it was great.

00:14:48   - We know some of the people who work on Apple TV

00:14:54   and have for a while and I know that a couple of them

00:14:56   have been, you know, personally, take it personally

00:14:59   that they want this experience to be better for years.

00:15:02   'Cause I know one of the features the old Apple TV had,

00:15:03   I actually don't know if the new one still supports it,

00:15:05   but remember how the old Apple TV

00:15:07   would let you pair a Bluetooth keyboard?

00:15:10   - Yeah.

00:15:11   - And then you could use that to enter passwords

00:15:14   and stuff like that the first time, just to,

00:15:15   if you wanted to.

00:15:16   And I thought that's a great idea,

00:15:19   and I'm so glad that they did it,

00:15:21   but I never, I've never once actually done it.

00:15:23   Because it always seems to me like,

00:15:25   If I'm already at the couch and I've got the stupid remote in my hand,

00:15:29   where by stupid remote I mean the old remote,

00:15:32   and in my mind the pain of just sitting there and pecking away at the on-screen keyboard to enter my password,

00:15:40   as much as it annoys me, it doesn't annoy me enough to go up to my office,

00:15:44   get a Bluetooth keyboard, come downstairs, pair it, and go through that.

00:15:48   Yeah, even if you had one lying around in your living room, I'd find it annoying.

00:15:52   Half the time when I watch TV, it's because I want to stop doing my work, which involves typing on a keyboard.

00:15:59   You know what I mean? I just don't want a keyboard anywhere near me.

00:16:02   I will hunt and peck with that stupid controller if I have to.

00:16:05   I never really wanted to pair any Bluetooth stuff up to it. It's cool you could do it, though.

00:16:11   Some of the stuff that works automatically really impressed me.

00:16:16   Without me having to configure it at all, the volume up, volume down buttons

00:16:21   automatically controlled the volume on my TV.

00:16:25   - Yeah, interestingly, it does it on your TV too.

00:16:28   Not, you know what I mean?

00:16:30   Rather than increasing and decreasing the volume

00:16:32   coming out of the back of your set top box

00:16:34   out of the Apple TV, it's doing it,

00:16:37   like you see your TV UI come up when it does it.

00:16:40   - Exactly, right.

00:16:41   - And I think that those IR things

00:16:45   have like a standard set of actions

00:16:47   that most equipment takes.

00:16:50   So I think that that's how it figured it out.

00:16:54   But it was a pleasant surprise.

00:16:56   It was, man, I used to hate,

00:16:58   I mean, we're complaining about very fresh world problems here,

00:17:00   but I used to hate having to find the other one

00:17:01   more controlled just to lower the volume.

00:17:03   - Yeah, so for me, it actually,

00:17:05   I was very impressed that it worked,

00:17:07   and it does exactly what you said.

00:17:08   It shows my pioneer UI.

00:17:10   You know, and so you get this,

00:17:15   all of a sudden you have this, it is ugly.

00:17:17   - It's ugly, it's ugly.

00:17:18   At the event, it was so funny, at the Apple event in September

00:17:21   when they were showing this, whenever anybody would--

00:17:23   I forget what brand of TVs they were using.

00:17:26   They were, of course, all identical.

00:17:28   But whatever brand it was-- and maybe it was Panasonic.

00:17:30   But it doesn't matter.

00:17:31   Somebody liked Panasonic.

00:17:32   When you'd hit volume up and volume down,

00:17:34   and you'd see the onscreen interface for the volume,

00:17:36   the Apple, the product marketing people who was ever there

00:17:39   supervising the demo would always and every time say,

00:17:43   that's not our UI.

00:17:45   That's the TV set.

00:17:46   So they'd try to spin it.

00:17:47   It was like this-- and of course, it's just like always

00:17:50   with the Apple product marketing people.

00:17:52   It was a rehearsed line.

00:17:53   So I'm not quoting it exactly right.

00:17:55   But it amused me because it was perfectly calibrated

00:17:59   to do two things.

00:18:01   One, it was setting it up as, hey, this is a cool feature.

00:18:05   Our remote will talk to your TV.

00:18:07   And then two, it was excusing the jankiness

00:18:11   of the onscreen graphics.

00:18:12   Like, this is-- don't--

00:18:13   It's not our fault.

00:18:14   Do not think that we designed this little crazy blue bar that shows you what the volume is at right now.

00:18:19   Yeah.

00:18:21   That's cool. It's a good feature.

00:18:22   Also, it makes a lot of sense to do it that way because there's no synchronization problem then between

00:18:29   what people are expecting from their television remote control and what the volume of the Apple TV device is.

00:18:34   If you hit mute on your old TV remote, it's going to mute.

00:18:41   I think it's just good to have one less level of confusion about what the output is actually going to be.

00:18:48   So for me, I was impressed that that worked. But it actually is useless because I don't use the volume from my TV.

00:18:55   I have this little box from Bose that powers the speakers on our TV.

00:19:01   So we have to use this Bose remote control.

00:19:03   And the Bose thing is a little... I guess you'd call it a receiver, but it's even smaller than the Apple TV.

00:19:09   It's just this tiny little black box that's like a little puck

00:19:13   that the speakers are plugged into

00:19:17   And so you can you make the TV learn the remote yeah

00:19:22   No, yeah, so you go to Apple in the Apple TV

00:19:27   you say it's you go to remotes, and it's like do you want to control a different device and

00:19:30   The setup for this was I was like oh what am I?

00:19:35   Figured that they wouldn't do remember the old way it would be like what brand you have and if it's like

00:19:39   Bose, they're like, "Try these codes, 857, 863, and 877."

00:19:44   'Cause those are the ones that Bose typically uses.

00:19:49   And if those don't work, well, maybe try this one.

00:19:54   I knew it wouldn't be like that, but it was so easy.

00:19:56   So what they said is they say,

00:19:59   "If you wanna control the volume on a different device

00:20:01   "using your Apple TV, okay, go get your other remote

00:20:06   "from the manufacturer of your other device."

00:20:09   and press down and hold volume up until this line is filled.

00:20:14   And so you just press and hold the volume up

00:20:16   on our other remote and takes about two or three seconds

00:20:19   and then like a progress bar fills up.

00:20:21   It's sort of like the, it's similar to the equivalent

00:20:25   of when you're training touch ID with a new fingerprint.

00:20:28   And then they're like, okay, got it.

00:20:30   Now do volume down and just keep holding volume down

00:20:33   until we tell you to stop.

00:20:34   And it takes about two or three seconds

00:20:36   and then you're done, that's it.

00:20:38   and then all of a sudden your Apple TV,

00:20:40   my Apple TV remote instead of controlling my TV's remote,

00:20:43   controls my receiver's volume.

00:20:46   - That's great.

00:20:46   - Yeah, it really is great.

00:20:48   - Piece of cake, 'cause these things

00:20:50   are such a hassle usually, so.

00:20:52   - Yeah, and that's one of those things that I really do,

00:20:55   I'd love to hear the war stories

00:20:57   from the team that did it, 'cause you just know

00:20:58   that getting that to work on, you know,

00:21:02   30 or 40 different brands of consumer electronic devices,

00:21:05   you just know that it's as screwy

00:21:08   as when you talk to people who work on email clients about the different IMAP servers out there and stuff like that.

00:21:13   You just know it's probably even worse.

00:21:15   Yeah. It's a good way of doing it though. It's cool. Anyway, so that's awesome.

00:21:20   So within minutes, you had your whole setup working.

00:21:23   Yeah. The other thing I had to do, and it makes sense, and I only noticed it when I first started playing a couple of games.

00:21:30   You remember the game Cannibal?

00:21:33   Yeah.

00:21:34   So that's there and it it plays really good on TV

00:21:38   But the one thing I noticed was it was the first game and the only one so far that I noticed that it it goes

00:21:46   Corner to corner. So like the score was cut off by overscan

00:21:49   hmm, and

00:21:52   I

00:21:53   Jonas was with me and it was so I it's like it and so I went into settings

00:21:57   I thought maybe I could fix on Apple TV and then I realized like the settings

00:22:01   There is a section where it talks about something with overscan.

00:22:04   But then the settings explains you've got to change it on your TV.

00:22:07   Yeah, it's a TV setting that they crop around the edges there.

00:22:10   Right, and that made all the sense in the world.

00:22:12   Of course the Apple TV isn't sending...

00:22:15   - Cropped image. - Right, a cropped image to the TV.

00:22:17   It's the TV that's doing it.

00:22:19   And then it's like, "Oh, God, now I'm stuck going into the goofy Pioneer image."

00:22:25   Or the goofy little computer that's built into my TV set from Pioneer.

00:22:30   and it's horrible. It's so confusing. But then Jonas was with me and thankfully reminded me that

00:22:35   we had solved the exact same problem with the PS4 when we got it for Christmas last year.

00:22:41   Oh cool. It wasn't until like PC mode or something.

00:22:44   Exactly. That's exactly it. You put it in PC mode, which is sort of... I understand it,

00:22:48   but there's no way a normal person would understand it. I understand what they're

00:22:51   saying though. They're saying this is not an analog video device. This is a computer that

00:22:57   that is sending a pixel-per-pixel precise image

00:23:01   to what it considers more like a PC monitor than a TV.

00:23:06   So once we did that, then it was perfect.

00:23:09   - That's cool.

00:23:11   Did the colors change at all?

00:23:13   - No, not by doing that.

00:23:15   No, it really just changed--

00:23:18   - TV's mannequin.

00:23:19   - So crazy.

00:23:21   So much old stuff built in there.

00:23:22   There's so much, what would you call it, technical debt?

00:23:25   - Yeah.

00:23:26   the whole reason for over over scanning it made all the sense in the world in

00:23:30   the CRT era yeah but it makes no sense at all and when everything's digital and

00:23:36   it's crazy that everything always defaults to the under scan over scan I

00:23:41   guess yeah did that make sense yeah did you do the same thing did you have to

00:23:48   change yours to PC mode I didn't have to but maybe you just haven't noticed

00:23:53   Maybe you haven't noticed, but I did play "Cannibalt."

00:23:55   Huh.

00:23:57   So, but maybe I didn't look at the thing. I'll have to go look.

00:24:00   Yeah, you could, it's very obvious. You could just, I mean, "Cannibalt" really puts the score literally in the top right corner.

00:24:06   I mean, it's, they're way outside the safe zone.

00:24:09   Yeah. Well, that's the other thing. When designing for a TV, they tell you to, there's like a, like the overscan border, they tell you where it is, and you shouldn't go there.

00:24:18   and even when filming, they take it into account when they're filming.

00:24:23   Which is kind of bananas in that that's how entrenched this thing is.

00:24:28   Even the production side is basically just adapting, throwing its hands up and being like,

00:24:34   "Okay, well, let's just avoid the edges."

00:24:37   Even though now there's no more technical reason for it.

00:24:41   That it's a digital image you're shooting on video,

00:24:44   video and it's going to be digital all the way through until it gets on the display.

00:24:50   But because everybody shoots within the safe zone, you still have to shoot within the safe

00:24:54   zone. And the devices still default sometimes to, well, maybe they didn't shoot with the

00:24:59   safe zone, so we're going to overscan.

00:25:01   Yeah. Too weird. Byzantine little crazy technological nightmare.

00:25:10   (laughs)

00:25:12   All right, let me take a break.

00:25:14   Take a first break here and thank our first sponsor.

00:25:16   It is our friends at Hullo, H-U-L-L-O.

00:25:21   Here's what these guys sell you.

00:25:24   They sell you a buckwheat hole pillow.

00:25:28   What the hell is that?

00:25:29   Here's the thing.

00:25:30   It's been popular for centuries in Asia.

00:25:33   This is how they've made pillows

00:25:34   for literally hundreds of years.

00:25:36   You take these buckwheat holes.

00:25:39   They feel, I haven't actually opened it up,

00:25:41   but they feel like coffee beans.

00:25:43   And they fill a pillow with these holes.

00:25:46   Feels like almost like more like a bean bag

00:25:48   than like a feather pillow.

00:25:50   Air flows freely through these things.

00:25:54   So it's like it keeps your head,

00:25:56   your head doesn't get sweaty

00:25:57   when you're sleeping on this thing.

00:25:58   And then you can adjust the thickness

00:26:00   to your personal preference.

00:26:01   You just open it up, unzip it,

00:26:02   and you could just take some of the holes out

00:26:04   anytime you want.

00:26:05   If the one you get out of the box feels like it's too full.

00:26:09   Made in the USA with quality construction,

00:26:14   really good materials.

00:26:15   So it's pre-shrunken, durable twill cotton for the case.

00:26:20   It's even a good zipper and it's sort of hidden,

00:26:25   like it tucks away.

00:26:28   Sometimes with like a jacket or something like that,

00:26:29   you can have a zipper that's easy to get to,

00:26:32   but then when it's all closed up, you don't see it.

00:26:34   And even the buckwheat, even the actual,

00:26:38   the holes that are stuffed in the pillow,

00:26:42   they're grown and milled in North Dakota,

00:26:44   right here in the US.

00:26:46   Very environmentally friendly and organic product.

00:26:51   Everything's 100% unbleached cotton.

00:26:54   No chemical foams inside, just natural hull.

00:26:58   Really, really good.

00:26:59   Sounds crazy.

00:27:00   Here's the thing, I know that this sounds crazy.

00:27:02   It is nothing like any pillow I've ever had before.

00:27:05   They sent us two of them months ago,

00:27:08   maybe a year ago when they first started sponsoring the show.

00:27:11   And Amy and I still have them both on our bed.

00:27:13   We both like it a lot.

00:27:14   It's really, really nice.

00:27:15   Definitely different.

00:27:17   If it sounds different to you,

00:27:18   the idea of sleeping on more of like a bean bag

00:27:20   than a feather pillow, it definitely is,

00:27:23   but it's really, really nice.

00:27:25   So here's the deal.

00:27:27   60 nights for free.

00:27:28   Just go there, buy it.

00:27:30   And any point in the first 60 nights, if it's not for you,

00:27:33   they give you a full refund, no questions asked, no hassle.

00:27:35   that you don't have to like call them up

00:27:37   and somebody's gonna try to argue with you

00:27:39   that you wanna keep this pillow or talk you into it.

00:27:41   Just send it back, 60 nights for free.

00:27:45   They have four sizes, small, standard, king.

00:27:48   I guess that's three sizes.

00:27:49   I guess I can't count.

00:27:51   49, 79, 129 bucks.

00:27:56   Here is where you go.

00:27:57   Go to hullo, H-U-L-L-O, pillow.com/talkshow.

00:28:03   know the, just slash talk show.

00:28:05   And they'll know you came from the show,

00:28:08   they'll help with that.

00:28:10   And last but not least, 1% of all of their profits

00:28:14   are contributed to the Nature Conservancy.

00:28:18   So you're doing good things.

00:28:20   So my thanks to them.

00:28:22   So what else?

00:28:24   So when I got my home yesterday,

00:28:27   the App Store, like you said,

00:28:31   it must have gone live during the day,

00:28:32   probably when they started giving them out to people like,

00:28:35   you know, monkeys like me in the media.

00:28:37   - So you had a briefing, right?

00:28:40   - Yeah.

00:28:40   - Can we say you had a briefing?

00:28:41   - Yeah.

00:28:42   - I guess we just did.

00:28:43   - Yeah.

00:28:44   - Like, what were the talking points?

00:28:48   Like, what did they run you through?

00:28:50   - Well, officially the briefings are off the record,

00:28:55   so I won't quote them.

00:28:56   - Okay, okay, okay.

00:28:57   - But I don't think it's a secret either.

00:28:58   It wasn't really, it's, you know, it was,

00:29:02   In my personal experience, I've said this before,

00:29:05   I'm not quite sure where to draw the line

00:29:06   with what's NDA and what's not,

00:29:08   but the basic gist, I have never ever gotten a review unit

00:29:11   of an Apple product that didn't include a briefing.

00:29:14   And not like with a room full of people,

00:29:17   you get like one-on-one time

00:29:18   with somebody from product marketing.

00:29:20   And it's always, people who are,

00:29:24   but people at Apple are like,

00:29:25   the product marketing team for Apple TV

00:29:27   is intimately familiar with the product,

00:29:29   they really know it.

00:29:30   So the big parts that they emphasized, the universal search and Siri, absolutely, they went through a couple of demos, let me play with it.

00:29:39   But it's clear that that is central to their vision for why are they even in the business of making Apple TV.

00:29:48   This universal search is absolutely huge.

00:29:51   Yeah, so I phrased that the wrong way.

00:29:56   No, it's alright.

00:29:58   I'm curious what they want to push.

00:30:01   Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think because usually what they want to push really is the most interesting things.

00:30:08   It's not like, it's so easy to overthink it. And if they're talking about A, B, and C, then you can overthink it and think,

00:30:14   well then D must be the part that's really interesting because they don't want to talk about it.

00:30:18   about it and maybe that's a problem or whatever. Now, Universal Search, you know,

00:30:24   the basic gist of using the trackpad, which I, you know, we can talk about this

00:30:30   more, I think we should. To me it's interesting. Now this is the

00:30:34   sort of thing they don't talk about, but the feel of it, the way that you can kind

00:30:38   of feel the UI as you slide your thumb around, is really interesting because

00:30:42   usually a touchpad has always been a thing where you have a cursor on screen

00:30:48   that you move around, right? Just think about like a MacBook like when you or

00:30:52   the new Magic Trackpad for you know desktops. You slide your finger around

00:30:56   and there's a thing on screen you know the arrow usually but it you know turns

00:31:01   into an I beam when you're editing text or whatever it moves around in response.

00:31:05   Well there is nothing on screen on Apple TV. It's you're just sort of implicitly

00:31:11   moving a selection around and different things pop up and move. I think they did

00:31:16   great job of that.

00:31:18   - They did an amazing job of that.

00:31:20   Like we could talk about that for ages.

00:31:22   - Yeah, we can hold it.

00:31:23   - They call it focus, but yeah.

00:31:25   Get back to it.

00:31:26   - What else did they want us to show?

00:31:28   Oh, they definitely wanted to show,

00:31:30   and I think rightly so.

00:31:31   And if anything to me has been underplayed so far

00:31:34   in the reviews of it that I've seen,

00:31:36   is the video scrubbing.

00:31:39   Meaning that when you fast forward video,

00:31:44   you get a fantastic, to me the best,

00:31:49   it's even better than TiVo.

00:31:51   And TiVo to me, I know John Siracusa

00:31:54   holds the same opinion on it,

00:31:56   is really until now the only fast-forwarding video

00:32:00   for anything I've ever connected to my TV

00:32:03   that actually is decent.

00:32:06   The old Apple TV was complete shit

00:32:08   for fast-forward and rewind,

00:32:09   especially for streaming content.

00:32:13   Because you'd have no visual indication of it.

00:32:15   You just have this timeline thing that moves.

00:32:17   And every once in a while, it just

00:32:19   goes back to the beginning of the whole stream.

00:32:21   And the new one, it's so good.

00:32:24   It's so fast.

00:32:25   The little thumbnail that shows you

00:32:27   what you will get if you stop as you fast forward,

00:32:31   it updates perfectly.

00:32:34   It's almost like I wonder if they had to dial it back

00:32:36   and slow it down so it doesn't change too much.

00:32:40   It's like it updates exactly as frequently

00:32:42   you want it to and whatever it is that you're looking at on that thumbnail when

00:32:45   you hit click it again to say all right start playing from here it just starts

00:32:49   playing exactly what it showed in the thumbnail is exactly what you will see

00:32:53   blown up to the full size of the screen and it sound I think it's it obviously

00:32:58   anything you fast-forward should work the way I just said but nothing has

00:33:02   worked that way until now and they definitely wanted to show that off and

00:33:07   and then mostly just games, I guess.

00:33:10   - Oh, interesting, okay.

00:33:13   Yeah, that fast forward thing is amazing.

00:33:18   Have you tried telling Siri to go back 30 seconds?

00:33:20   - Yeah, yeah, and it works great.

00:33:22   - Yeah, it's awesome.

00:33:23   - I find the only thing that I find so far is

00:33:29   it's almost like I forget to use Siri.

00:33:33   I've only had it for literally 20 to 30 hours.

00:33:38   - Exactly where it's gonna go.

00:33:39   I find myself going to the store,

00:33:43   navigating around top shows to find a show

00:33:46   that I know what I'm looking for.

00:33:47   I could just say it.

00:33:48   - I forget what I wanted.

00:33:51   - I need to break my old habits.

00:33:52   - Right, I started doing the type ahead to type something

00:33:55   and I was annoyed and I was just like,

00:33:57   oh wait, I'm not supposed to type to find it.

00:34:02   I think they even offer you reminders. It's like they even show you.

00:34:06   They're like, you know, you could, you know, just hit the Siri button.

00:34:09   [Laughter]

00:34:11   That's cool. I know some people have been frustrated with it, but whatever.

00:34:14   It's Siri, so...

00:34:16   I think you can have good and bad experiences with it at times.

00:34:22   Yeah, it's always like that. It's definitely... but it's getting better across all devices.

00:34:28   You know, the watch...

00:34:29   Oh yeah, I agree.

00:34:30   the phone and with everything. It is getting better at a very rapid... Does this one seem

00:34:34   way faster to you? I think so. And it um... Like the words just appear as as I say them.

00:34:41   Yeah, I don't, I almost don't even know how it could be faster. Like why, why, and unless it's

00:34:47   just that it's, you know, the the team working on Apple TV are such engineering badasses that

00:34:54   that they're actually better than the people on the watch

00:34:58   and phone teams or something.

00:35:00   I really, it almost seems inexplicable

00:35:02   how much faster it is than Siri on the phone.

00:35:06   - The only thing I could come up with

00:35:07   was that it's a smaller problem set,

00:35:09   so they've got a lot more stuff cached locally for,

00:35:11   like you often say, "Show me."

00:35:14   - Yeah.

00:35:15   - And then the name of a TV show,

00:35:16   and I've already got like a list about the TV show,

00:35:18   so they have a pretty confident guess before maybe.

00:35:22   - Yeah. - Maybe.

00:35:23   - I don't know though.

00:35:25   It was like,

00:35:26   I was interested, so for example,

00:35:30   we were watching a movie as a family last night.

00:35:34   Jonas had like an in-service day today,

00:35:38   where the teachers are, I don't know,

00:35:40   grading papers or something.

00:35:42   So he did, yesterday was the beginning of his weekend,

00:35:45   so he could stay up late and we watched a movie.

00:35:48   But I was interested, and oddly enough,

00:35:50   Amy was too in the Thursday night football game,

00:35:53   which was the Miami Dolphins against

00:35:56   the New England Patriots because Daniel Tosh,

00:36:00   you ever see that Tosh?

00:36:02   - That guy-- - I bet you hate him.

00:36:04   You hate him. (both laughing)

00:36:08   'Cause he's not a good person,

00:36:10   which is, he's a very funny guy.

00:36:13   I think he's hilarious, but Amy really likes his show.

00:36:16   She likes him.

00:36:17   So I watch with her and I get grossed out

00:36:21   by some of this stuff.

00:36:22   I really, I'm a little squeamish.

00:36:24   And so if you don't know,

00:36:25   Daniel Tosh has a show on, a weekly show on Comedy Central

00:36:28   where they show clips from YouTube

00:36:30   and wherever else they can find them on the internet

00:36:32   of people doing stupid things and often getting hurt.

00:36:36   And then he makes fun of them.

00:36:37   But anyway, he raised $25,000 and he had a,

00:36:42   he did this before too.

00:36:47   raised like $25,000 for charity with the awesome with the idea but well just

00:36:53   with the idea though that once he raised the 25 grand for charity he would go to

00:36:58   Vegas and bet it all on one hand a blackjack and then if he won it would

00:37:03   all go to the charity and if he lost they would get nothing and he went and

00:37:07   played one hand a blackjack and lost and it was true I mean he was there at the

00:37:12   Mirage and he had a stack of $25,000 in front of him.

00:37:16   And so this year, he raised $25,000.

00:37:21   And it's actually for a pal of his who,

00:37:24   some other comedian, I hadn't heard him,

00:37:26   but the poor guy's got a brain tumor or something.

00:37:29   And it's a typical US thing, even with Obamacare,

00:37:34   it's like his insurance is gonna bankrupt him or something.

00:37:37   So the money's gonna go to help this comedian friend

00:37:39   of his, you know, pay off his medical bills

00:37:42   from brain tumor.

00:37:44   So great cause.

00:37:45   But what he did is he bet the whole thing

00:37:48   on the first half, this is like the longest tangent

00:37:52   in the history of the show.

00:37:53   He bet the whole thing on the first half

00:37:56   of the Miami Dolphins New England Patriots game.

00:37:59   Now the backstory here is that Tash is a lifelong

00:38:03   Miami Dolphins fan.

00:38:04   Loves the Miami Dolphins.

00:38:06   The Miami Dolphins are terrible.

00:38:09   They're so bad they've already fired their,

00:38:11   you know, like three games into the season

00:38:12   they fired their coach.

00:38:13   And that, you know, I mean, that's.

00:38:14   (laughing)

00:38:15   If you can't even wait till the end of the season

00:38:18   to fire your coach, you know your team is in bad shape.

00:38:21   So the Miami Dolphins are terrible

00:38:23   and the New England Patriots are quite possibly,

00:38:25   probably the best team in football this year.

00:38:28   - Yeah, don't talk about this.

00:38:30   - So what he did is he bet on the Patriots

00:38:36   for the first half only

00:38:38   so that he could, by all accounts,

00:38:41   they're almost certainly gonna be ahead at halftime.

00:38:44   They had to be ahead by at least three and a half points,

00:38:46   and he'd win.

00:38:47   But then he could go back and root for the Miami Dolphins

00:38:50   to win the game by coming back in the second half.

00:38:53   So anyway, long story short,

00:38:54   we were interested in the score of the game,

00:38:56   and so I did the Siri thing in the middle of a movie.

00:38:58   Hey Siri, what's the score of the Dolphins game?

00:39:00   And the score was already up.

00:39:03   Like it felt like I was gonna wait for like a little spinner

00:39:07   while she processes it.

00:39:08   And in the meantime, it was like the New England Patriots are up 17-0 in the first half or

00:39:13   whatever it was.

00:39:14   Anyway, long story short, Tosh did win the bet.

00:39:17   The Dolphins got killed.

00:39:18   OK, cool.

00:39:19   So, I mean, good that he's helping out his brain buddy.

00:39:24   He's such a dick.

00:39:26   I'm sure that he'd, you know, behind the scenes, and probably gave him money, but at least

00:39:31   publicly.

00:39:32   And he did have a picture of the ticket you get from the sportsbook.

00:39:35   He did bet $25,000 on the Patriots.

00:39:38   anyway long story short, anyway, long story short, you got your sports scores pretty quick.

00:39:45   instantaneously and that to me is not the sort of question I guess that you can yeah

00:39:51   I mean you know I mean how many I guess people ask about weather and ask about

00:39:55   sports scores and I don't know it seems to me like it's more than just local

00:39:59   caching it's really really good and I just feel like it it has to become

00:40:04   habit-forming because it is such a useful way to navigate the Apple TV.

00:40:08   Yeah, I just still haven't got there yet. I still do the left-right-up-down thing

00:40:13   way too often. Yeah. I'll get there. The other little thing, and I wonder maybe I

00:40:20   haven't actually tried this, but I know at the event when I played with it I

00:40:23   kept I'd press the button and I would say "H*ck, what's the temperature outside?" and

00:40:28   that screwed it all up and they're like "Oh no no you don't have to say don't say

00:40:32   just ask what the weather is but it's weird because I've sort of gotten

00:40:37   grooved on saying because hmm I guess I should have prefaced that because I

00:40:43   know famous that's probably me doing that probably set off serious although

00:40:49   strangely it didn't set off mine on my phone right here yeah maybe we'll beep

00:40:55   it out if you heard beeps I don't know you may or not have heard beeps 30

00:40:59   seconds ago it was because I said a GY Siri the only thing the only thing that

00:41:12   ever gets beeped on on my talk show anyway you would think it shouldn't

00:41:20   screw it up though like why would that screw yeah I wonder if maybe they've

00:41:24   maybe they could just maybe the in I wouldn't be surprised if in the interim

00:41:28   maybe they've made it so Siri will just ignore it. Recognize it and ignore it.

00:41:33   You don't need to say it but if you do, out of habit, it shouldn't hurt you.

00:41:37   Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It seems like you holding the button, which is effectively

00:41:41   the same thing as summoning. It seems like the sort of thing that when before

00:41:47   it goes out to a wider audience you can see why they didn't do that because the

00:41:51   only people who were using it were on the team and they knew exactly how it

00:41:54   worked and so they of course never said **** because they knew not to say **** but

00:41:58   - Stop doing it.

00:41:59   (laughing)

00:42:00   - Beep.

00:42:01   They knew not to say the thing.

00:42:05   But then once it got out into a wider release,

00:42:09   maybe it was like, oh yeah, obviously we should

00:42:12   just listen for that and just discard it.

00:42:15   Sort of like with the live photos,

00:42:17   the way that in the, for the first month with the iPhone 6,

00:42:21   if you drop your camera, drop it meaning lower it

00:42:25   after you snap the picture,

00:42:26   your live photo ends up with this blurry picture

00:42:30   of somebody's feet every single time.

00:42:31   And then starting in iOS 9.1, they detect that

00:42:35   and just crop it at the point where you lower the camera.

00:42:38   - Yeah, I love live photo client, that's a good idea.

00:42:41   - It's so great, but it's so, you can totally see

00:42:44   how this seemingly obvious feature

00:42:47   of detecting the lowering of the camera,

00:42:49   how it slipped through, because the only people using it

00:42:52   knew they had gotten in the habit of holding the camera

00:42:56   for one and a half seconds after they take the photo.

00:42:59   - And it's really like when you're not thinking about it

00:43:01   and you're not really,

00:43:03   'cause that's part of the beauty of the live photos,

00:43:05   you don't have to think about it.

00:43:07   You just do it, but then you end up with these weird things.

00:43:10   So I wouldn't be surprised if the, you know.

00:43:15   - Yeah, something slips through, but don't do it again.

00:43:19   What's the Amazon one?

00:43:25   Alexa?

00:43:28   Huh? I tricked you into saying it.

00:43:30   But what do you have to say, though?

00:43:32   I don't know.

00:43:34   I don't know what the...

00:43:36   Anyway, whatever.

00:43:38   We can't...

00:43:40   I find it a little bit disconcerting that we're worried about saying the Bonk thing,

00:43:44   because it's going to upset robots.

00:43:46   [laughter]

00:43:48   It's not really a feature of one of the living.

00:43:50   Shh!

00:43:52   [laughter]

00:43:54   Shh.

00:43:55   Don't--

00:43:56   No, no, no.

00:43:56   Don't wake up the robot.

00:43:57   Let me take another break here.

00:44:03   I'm going to thank our next sponsor.

00:44:05   And what are you going to do if you're sleeping

00:44:07   on one of these hello pillows?

00:44:09   Well, what are you laying on?

00:44:10   Well, you need a mattress.

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00:44:27   This is like the future.

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00:44:33   What a mess that is.

00:44:35   Casper makes, they make buying a mattress so much easier.

00:44:41   It's not just about skipping the store.

00:44:44   They don't, you don't go there and pick between

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00:44:50   All they do, they just make you pick a size.

00:44:53   They're like the apple of mattresses.

00:44:55   You don't have to go in there and figure out

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00:45:19   how much of the latex.

00:45:20   They just, they do it.

00:45:23   That's it.

00:45:24   And it's really, really nice.

00:45:25   So, you go there, you pick what size you want.

00:45:31   Twin size mattress, king size, queen size, whatever.

00:45:34   That's the only decision you have to make.

00:45:36   Then, next thing you know,

00:45:37   the mattress shows up at your house,

00:45:39   packed into an unbelievably small box.

00:45:42   It's probably the biggest box if you've got,

00:45:44   when you buy one of these things,

00:45:45   it's probably the biggest box you'll get this year.

00:45:48   but it is way smaller than a mattress.

00:45:51   It is ridiculously small.

00:45:53   Half the fun of the thing is opening it up

00:45:56   and hearing the air suck into it.

00:45:58   The whole reason they can ship it so small

00:46:00   is that they vacuum seal these things.

00:46:03   You put it in your bedroom, you open up the box,

00:46:05   you follow the instructions, and it makes this cool noise,

00:46:08   which I will not attempt to replicate,

00:46:09   and next thing you know, there's a full-size mattress.

00:46:12   With all this Back to the Future talk,

00:46:14   because the Back to the Future day was last week,

00:46:17   It reminds me of the pizza they make in Back to the Future

00:46:19   where it's like tiny and then the mom hits a button

00:46:22   and two seconds later there's a full-size pizza.

00:46:24   That's exactly what it's like,

00:46:26   except it's a mattress and not a pizza.

00:46:29   Does that make sense?

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00:46:31   Here's the other thing too.

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00:46:35   No crazy price comparisons

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00:46:40   or anything like that.

00:46:41   You just go there, pick it out.

00:46:43   The mattresses are made in America

00:46:46   And if you don't like it, you have 100 days

00:46:51   where up to 100 days later, you can just say,

00:46:53   you know what, I don't like it,

00:46:54   ship it back, free delivery, you know.

00:46:57   So if you have any reservations about buying a mattress

00:47:00   without actually having tried it in a store,

00:47:02   which quite frankly is kind of gross

00:47:04   'cause guess what, other people have been laying

00:47:06   on those things too.

00:47:08   You give 100 days, no risk, money back guarantee.

00:47:10   Here's what you do.

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00:47:28   code you'll save an extra 50 bucks so my thanks to Casper go get a mattress

00:47:33   what else is going on with that I like the theme though yes all sleepy stuff

00:47:39   Yeah, cozy. The winter's coming in.

00:47:42   What else?

00:47:45   So we got as far as turning the actual thing on.

00:47:48   Yeah, let's talk about the input. You're sliding around this trackpad.

00:47:51   And what did you say is called Focus?

00:47:54   Yeah, it's called... internally the class that takes care of all of that is called the UI Focus Engine.

00:48:00   So... I mean...

00:48:03   I know we don't have a selection rectangle, but...

00:48:07   You know, think of it like that, right? Like as you move down you get the selection rectangle.

00:48:13   What actually happens for listeners who haven't seen it is you move from one icon or button to the other

00:48:20   and as you move onto one it gets bigger and gets a parallax effect on it too

00:48:28   so that as you slightly move your finger around the trackpad, the angle of the icon changes

00:48:35   giving it a nice 3D feel.

00:48:39   Like you feel like you're manipulating an object.

00:48:42   - It definitely has a 3D feel.

00:48:46   I feel like for a 1.0 product, it's remarkably polished.

00:48:50   And this might just be a factor of how long

00:48:52   they've been working on it internally.

00:48:54   But it's like, to me, the 3D-ness,

00:48:58   the way that the selected item pops towards you a little,

00:49:01   and the way that there is this parallax.

00:49:03   And there's also, like you said, if you're going to the left and you're selecting items

00:49:10   from the left to the right and you're still kind of pressing your thumb, you've stopped,

00:49:15   you're hovering on one, but you're still kind of got your thumb going a little to the right,

00:49:20   that's the way it tilts a little bit.

00:49:22   It's as though you're sort of pressing it to the right.

00:49:25   You can idly play with them.

00:49:27   I do, just because I'm like, "Oh yeah, do I want to watch this?"

00:49:29   I'm looking at the parallax effect.

00:49:32   Like often the text will pop from the front to the background,

00:49:35   or there'll be a couple layers in there.

00:49:36   - It's such a cool thing,

00:49:39   but it would be so easy to do too much,

00:49:41   to have it too strong.

00:49:43   And it's not, I feel like it is delightfully understated.

00:49:48   - Yeah, if anything, I think that the white shine

00:49:51   that they put on is a little bit too much, but whatever.

00:49:55   - It is funny though, because it is absolutely,

00:49:58   positively not flat, to use that overused term.

00:50:02   It is a very, very visually 3D effect.

00:50:06   The things really pop.

00:50:10   Yeah, while preserving some of the...

00:50:14   I guess it's difficult to explain it, but I mean, the elements are flat, but they're

00:50:18   stacked in a way such that it's clearly 3D. You know what I mean?

00:50:22   Like the settings icon looks almost

00:50:26   identical to the iOS icon, but it is stacked in a way so the gears are

00:50:31   like, they descend into space so you can see them move a bit. Yeah, and buttons are

00:50:38   definitely buttons. You go back and forth on this, I've kind of

00:50:46   gotten used to it with iOS 7, starting with iOS 7, the new look of iOS where a

00:50:51   a lot of buttons don't have an actual outline,

00:50:55   they're just text.

00:50:56   And it's almost like clicking,

00:50:58   more like clicking, tapping a hyperlink

00:51:01   than tapping a button.

00:51:02   And I can kind of see why they did that.

00:51:05   It's never quite sat right with me,

00:51:06   but I kind of have come to peace with it.

00:51:10   But I really like that on this new Apple TV

00:51:12   that buttons are buttons again.

00:51:14   - Yeah, they have like a pretty distinctive outline

00:51:17   and when you move on to one,

00:51:18   it makes a different sound.

00:51:20   - Yeah.

00:51:21   As you navigate around the UI, you get sounds

00:51:23   for what you're selecting too, which is nice.

00:51:25   - Yeah, and it's really, in my opinion, well done again.

00:51:29   I think the old Apple TV sounds were pretty good too,

00:51:32   but I think that the tweaks that they've done

00:51:34   are all for the better.

00:51:36   And it just kind of, again, it's almost not like you're,

00:51:40   it's not over the top, it's not like a lot of beeping

00:51:43   and buzzing, it's just subtle little feedback

00:51:47   that it almost is like it helps you feel it.

00:51:50   it makes it feel like your finger can feel these buttons

00:51:52   because you're getting some kind of,

00:51:55   even though it's not like a force feedback on the remote,

00:51:59   you're getting some kind of sensual input.

00:52:03   - Yeah.

00:52:04   I would love to see some kind of haptic feedback

00:52:08   in the remote eventually.

00:52:10   - Yeah, I think that's gotta come eventually,

00:52:11   especially it just seems like they're doing so much

00:52:15   so quickly, you know, the haptic stuff that they're doing is,

00:52:19   If you think about it, it's like we're just early days on it, really.

00:52:23   I mean, we're still in the first year of having a Force Touch trackpad.

00:52:29   They just came out with the first phones with the 3D Touch a month ago, right?

00:52:36   Six weeks ago.

00:52:38   The Watch only came out in April.

00:52:42   So the Watch was one of the first ones they came out with, but the Watch has really sort

00:52:45   the simplest implementation where it's really just, you know, is it a force touch or not?

00:52:49   It's not like a degree of force. So I think that's inevitable. I think it's got to be, you know,

00:52:54   whether it's next year or two years from now that there will be an Apple TV remote that has some kind of...

00:52:59   - Haptic, yeah. They don't need it super robust either. It's a smaller device, so you don't need to move it that...

00:53:06   You don't mean like the weight of the device is going to matter for the oscillator.

00:53:11   - Right, right, and in a way that,

00:53:15   the way that you're, like the big,

00:53:18   the only real, to me, the only real downside

00:53:20   to the Force Touch on the new iPhone 6s is,

00:53:23   6s sounds so weird.

00:53:28   I'll just say 6s, or I'll say it like I write it,

00:53:30   iPhone's 6s, is that it made 'em way more,

00:53:35   like noticeably more, like about 20 grams more,

00:53:39   Apple doesn't really make things typically that get heavier.

00:53:45   I think it's worth it. But on the remote, a little bit more might actually make it even feel better.

00:53:50   The remote is so lightweight that if they have to add 20 grams to it to get force touch in there, so what?

00:53:57   Yeah. Well, also the engine won't have to be as forceful, right? Because it's got less to wiggle.

00:54:04   So anyway, I mean, that's a minor...

00:54:07   That's how excited I am. Now I'm like, "Oh, wouldn't it be cool if...

00:54:11   X." You know what I mean? It's not even a complaint. It's just like...

00:54:15   I would just say this. I would just go zoom back, big picture,

00:54:19   of the three...

00:54:23   I won't count the watch, because the watch to me is not really an OS.

00:54:27   It's sort of, you know, it's a watch.

00:54:31   Maybe I should, but of iOS, OS X, and Apple TV,

00:54:36   and they all have these new, if we start with iOS 7,

00:54:44   these new user interfaces, they're all using

00:54:47   the San Francisco system font.

00:54:49   I think that the Apple TV is the best designed one.

00:54:53   I just, and little things like what do the buttons look like,

00:54:59   what do the icons look like,

00:55:01   To me, it's the best, it's my favorite of them now.

00:55:06   - Yeah, I think I've done amazing.

00:55:08   - Maybe I'm judging that a little early.

00:55:09   Maybe if I, you know, a month from now

00:55:11   after I've really gotten used to it,

00:55:13   maybe I'll start to see more things to complain about.

00:55:16   But I feel like there are the least things in there

00:55:19   that I would really wish that they would do differently.

00:55:21   I don't really have any complaints like that.

00:55:23   I just think it's gorgeous and has such a great feel.

00:55:26   - Could also be because there's less to it, right?

00:55:29   - Yeah, it's possible too. - There's less to it.

00:55:30   But there's less UI. You don't have a complicated app, necessarily.

00:55:35   The way this focus engine thing works is that in code, it moves the focus

00:55:44   the way that the viewer is seeing the screen.

00:55:51   If you were to move right and there's a list to the right,

00:55:59   it would jump to where you would expect it to go as viewer, not programmatically, per se.

00:56:04   What's a good way of putting this?

00:56:11   So you can imagine having a button, like a view button, that was covered up by something else.

00:56:13   And if you press down, it would have selected the button logically in the code,

00:56:19   but something is covering it. It will instead pick the thing that's covering it.

00:56:24   Because that's the foremost on the screen.

00:56:26   It doesn't...man, sorry I'm trying to explain to you in a non-technical way,

00:56:34   but there's a way that you'd structure the code in all of these views that relate to each other,

00:56:39   and there's a hierarchy of views of what gets embedded in what.

00:56:44   But that isn't necessarily what gets presented on the screen,

00:56:47   because you could have stuff like popups showing up,

00:56:50   or things coming in from the side, or a view element is either hidden,

00:56:53   or its alpha value has gone to zero, it's become completely transparent.

00:56:59   And this focus engine will take all of that into account.

00:57:04   So it'll consider what the user is seeing rather than what the developer has written.

00:57:09   Yeah, I think that makes sense from a layperson.

00:57:12   I think people can kind of know what they mean by that.

00:57:15   In the code, or in--do they still call it interface builder?

00:57:21   interface builder what would you call yeah they still called IB interface

00:57:25   build but it's inside Xcode now right yeah that a lot of times these the the

00:57:32   the UI is almost it's like an outline where there are you know views that are

00:57:38   sub views and that you can effectively at a higher level you can just collapse

00:57:43   the whole thing like a section of an outline and just know that if you move

00:57:47   this thing around all of its subviews go with it and when you think of it that

00:57:51   way you can think of what would the outline considered to be next you know

00:57:57   it isn't that sort of what you're talking about like it would be like a

00:57:59   logical thing like you know that this is beneath it because it's the next thing

00:58:03   in this outline which has a linear view but it isn't related to this but the

00:58:08   visual layout right totally different yeah right and it would be like a

00:58:12   picture of a web page with like a three column web page this is a left-hand

00:58:15   There's the content and then there's whatever, the ads of stuff on the right.

00:58:20   Now imagine navigating with the focus.

00:58:25   If you pressed the down button, you'd be going down the left-hand side, the source list.

00:58:28   And then if you pressed right, you would jump over to the main content view.

00:58:32   Now, if a dialog box popped up, and you were in the left and you pressed right,

00:58:37   you would jump into the dialog box instead, because it's foremost.

00:58:41   foremost, it's more prominent.

00:58:44   - Yeah, it's, in the bottom line,

00:58:49   and I feel like it's, again, to overuse the word magic,

00:58:52   they have taken an input paradigm, the trackpad,

00:58:57   that is so much easier to conceptualize

00:59:02   if you're just moving a pointer on screen, right?

00:59:06   Just think of the arrow from Mac, that Mac arrow cursor.

00:59:10   Conceptually, that's super simple.

00:59:12   You move a thing and it moves exactly along with your finger.

00:59:18   And then it solves everything because whatever you tap on

00:59:22   is what's underneath the arrow.

00:59:23   So getting rid of the idea of a pointer is conceptually,

00:59:28   I would think, to implement it very, very difficult

00:59:30   because they've done it in a way that it has to--

00:59:34   normal people are never going to think about this.

00:59:37   Yeah, no, and you shouldn't.

00:59:38   And there's a fair amount of new stuff that they've added to UIKit

00:59:43   to support this notion of focus.

00:59:48   And it's unique to the platform.

00:59:53   It doesn't exist, doesn't even make sense on a phone or an iPad.

00:59:57   So I don't know, it's really cool.

01:00:02   Yeah, I really feel like they've knocked themselves out on it.

01:00:05   And I don't think they're going to get the recognition.

01:00:05   And they know that too, that it's like some of the stuff that works, it really requires

01:00:12   amazing engineering.

01:00:14   Everybody's just going to take it for granted very, very soon.

01:00:17   Yeah, I mean that's kind of the…

01:00:20   So we crapped all over the on-screen keyboard just the idea of it.

01:00:26   And it still is less than optimal.

01:00:28   But when you have to enter a password or something like that, or if you...

01:00:37   Like Netflix, like to turn on Netflix I had to enter our Netflix credentials.

01:00:42   There's no way around that.

01:00:43   Yeah.

01:00:44   That app's better too, by the way.

01:00:47   The Netflix app?

01:00:48   Yeah.

01:00:49   Actually, I guess there is a way around it.

01:00:50   We can talk about it.

01:00:51   Did you see that there's a net news wire for Apple TV?

01:00:55   I did.

01:00:56   I have not tried it out yet.

01:00:57   So it's, in a sense, so BlackPixel,

01:01:00   people who have NetNewswire now, did an Apple TV app.

01:01:03   I was surprised, I was like, it doesn't seem,

01:01:05   RSS does not seem like something I wanna do on my TV.

01:01:08   Having played with it, I think I'm right

01:01:11   that it's probably not something I wanna do on my TV,

01:01:13   but it may not have been that much work for them.

01:01:16   I don't know, but it's interesting.

01:01:18   But the thing that was the most interesting to me was

01:01:21   they have their own sync engine.

01:01:27   And so you can enter your email and password

01:01:28   in the Apple TV the old-fashioned way.

01:01:30   Or you can just launch iOS Net News Wire on your iPhone

01:01:34   if you're on the same Wi-Fi network.

01:01:36   And they tell you this.

01:01:39   Or you can just, the easier way would be to just launch

01:01:42   Net News Wire for iOS.

01:01:43   So I launched it on my iPhone.

01:01:45   And there on my iPhone I got a dialog box

01:01:48   with the option to grant the Apple TV app

01:01:53   on this, the name of my Apple TV.

01:01:56   my NetNewswire Sync, and I hit a button and it was there.

01:02:01   - Oh, that's great.

01:02:03   - So that's, you know what I mean?

01:02:04   Whether I'm actually gonna read RSS on my Apple TV,

01:02:08   to get Sync credentials across, that was great.

01:02:10   I wish Netflix would have had the same option.

01:02:12   Hopefully more and more apps will start doing stuff like that

01:02:16   so that you don't have to do it.

01:02:18   But anyway, when you do type on the new Apple TV,

01:02:21   I do think they've made the keyboard better

01:02:23   than the old one.

01:02:24   Like the old one that was arranged in a two-dimensional grid,

01:02:29   it was like A, B, C, D, E, F, and then next line,

01:02:34   whatever letter comes after F.

01:02:37   - G, it's G. - Is it?

01:02:41   I forget.

01:02:42   I often don't remember mid-alphabet.

01:02:46   I have to start from the beginning.

01:02:48   - I do it every time, yeah.

01:02:50   - I have to start from the beginning,

01:02:51   and I didn't feel like doing it.

01:02:52   - I don't want to admit that, but I do.

01:02:54   And sometimes I can always do it from the beginning, but sometimes I'm amazed by things.

01:03:00   I'm like, "Wow, S and T are really far back in the alphabet. I never thought of them as

01:03:06   being so far back."

01:03:07   Yeah, yeah, they were pretty far back. Yeah, they really are.

01:03:12   Like those are, to me, those are big boy consonants. Like, you know, S is the most frequently used

01:03:17   consonant. T is, you know, super up there in frequency. You just think that they'd have,

01:03:21   you know, better seats.

01:03:22   Better position. Yeah, exactly.

01:03:24   I heard a man's got...

01:03:27   This show is just called "The Weeds" at this point.

01:03:29   I was watching TV the other night,

01:03:32   and they had somebody do a sobriety test.

01:03:34   It was like, say the alphabet backwards.

01:03:38   And I'm like, "Are you kidding me? I couldn't do that anyway."

01:03:43   I would... As we speak right now, I am stone cold sober.

01:03:49   I could not do that.

01:03:51   Z, Y. I'd have to--

01:03:55   I would have to do it, like, in-- think about it as, like,

01:03:57   a programming code.

01:03:58   It would be like you would--

01:04:01   you would flunk the student, because the algorithm

01:04:04   I would have to use--

01:04:05   I can do Z and Y. All right, X. I was going to say W.

01:04:10   X, Y, Z. So you get a--

01:04:11   I would, more or less, once I got past X to W,

01:04:14   I would have to redo the entire alphabet.

01:04:17   A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V.

01:04:21   - You would scan the entire thing.

01:04:22   Find the last one. - All right, and then I can go B.

01:04:25   I would not be able to pass that field sobriety test.

01:04:29   - No, yeah, but the actress rattled it off,

01:04:31   and I was like, well, okay, well,

01:04:33   I guess I've drank too much,

01:04:37   or this is just not realistic at all.

01:04:39   - In my head, too, honestly,

01:04:43   I'm not gonna sing here on the show,

01:04:45   but in my head, when I do the alphabet in my head,

01:04:47   I do it in the singsong.

01:04:49   - Singsong voice, yeah, of course.

01:04:51   You have to, yeah.

01:04:52   - It's just one of those things that I stopped caring about.

01:04:57   Like doing, I could do--

01:04:59   - I know, I feel like I got to a functional enough level

01:05:01   with it, and I'm like, okay, putting that aside.

01:05:04   - I can naturally do.

01:05:05   My brain, I do, I can naturally, without having to stress,

01:05:09   I can do pretty significant arithmetic in my head.

01:05:15   But I only do it because it is easy for me.

01:05:18   And I've been talking to Jonas about it.

01:05:20   Jonas isn't so good at arithmetic.

01:05:24   And I was like, you gotta do what you gotta do

01:05:27   to pass these tests.

01:05:27   You gotta study and you gotta work on this.

01:05:29   I was like, but in the long run in life,

01:05:31   this is a problem that computers have solved.

01:05:33   You have to understand the concepts to know what to do.

01:05:35   But if you can't do 647 minus 87 in your head,

01:05:40   don't worry about it.

01:05:41   You're gonna have a calculator with you

01:05:42   everywhere you go in your life.

01:05:44   Yeah.

01:05:44   That's good advice.

01:05:46   What you don't have is a sign with the alphabet on it.

01:05:51   Right.

01:05:52   But, so, alphabetization, for me, does not come naturally.

01:05:55   I don't do it.

01:05:56   But it's a solved problem, right?

01:05:57   My computer alphabetizes everything for me that I want alphabetized.

01:06:01   Why would I have to worry about it?

01:06:02   Well, if you go down and find a list view, do you…

01:06:05   You must know.

01:06:07   You instinctively know if you're too low or too high.

01:06:09   Yeah.

01:06:11   You know, if you're looking at the W, and you're like, "Do you go down to find that H?"

01:06:15   No, you'll go back up.

01:06:17   Yeah.

01:06:17   Yeah, as I'm looking at the list, I'm not like...

01:06:23   I'm not...

01:06:27   A good therapy for alphabets.

01:06:30   I'm not like...

01:06:33   I'm not bad at alphabetizing. I just can't do it all in my head automatically.

01:06:38   I can't quite remember with K before L or L after K unless I look at it in a list.

01:06:45   But I kind of know basically where they are.

01:06:47   Yeah. The neighborhood.

01:06:49   [laughter]

01:06:51   Let's go back to talking about accounting.

01:06:53   [laughter]

01:06:57   No, the UI. UI for Apple TV. It's really, really well done.

01:07:02   I think they've done a good job, and I think it's got legs, too. I think this is going to...

01:07:07   I don't think it's going to run out of possibilities.

01:07:10   So the difference, I was talking about the keyboard, and the old one was a grid, and

01:07:14   you'd have to go up, down, left, and right to select letters.

01:07:18   And it wouldn't go, you couldn't go right to go down to the next row.

01:07:24   You know what I mean?

01:07:25   Yeah, it would bump you out into the next few.

01:07:27   Right.

01:07:28   If you were at the top right of the grid, I would think going right would move you down,

01:07:32   move the selection to the next letter in the alphabet.

01:07:35   but it wouldn't, it would just sort of like beep at you

01:07:36   or something.

01:07:37   So the new one is just a straight list

01:07:42   across the screen from A to Z.

01:07:45   And so all you do is go left, right.

01:07:49   But one of the things I noticed is,

01:07:52   and I think it's really cool,

01:07:53   is as you move the selection for which letter it is,

01:07:56   it's not just one, like the rectangle highlighting

01:08:00   the selection moves a little bit

01:08:02   as you move your finger on the trackpad.

01:08:06   You know what I mean?

01:08:06   Does that make sense?

01:08:08   - Yeah, it's leading a bit.

01:08:09   - Yeah.

01:08:10   - It's ready to go to the next one.

01:08:11   And then when you let go, it'll come back to rest

01:08:13   like on the left that you--

01:08:14   - Right, so if you're pressing a little bit to the left

01:08:16   on the trackpad, the selection range will be a little bit

01:08:19   more like leaning towards the next letter of the left,

01:08:22   but you still haven't moved your thumb far enough

01:08:24   to actually move it to the next letter.

01:08:27   - Yeah, it feels very visceral.

01:08:28   - Yes, exactly.

01:08:29   It has a real visceral feel to it

01:08:31   that it makes it, you know, so for all the crapping

01:08:34   I've done about on-screen keyboards in general,

01:08:36   I feel like the one that they've built for this

01:08:38   is a nice, is about as good as it could get.

01:08:41   - Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm not,

01:08:43   I don't know what more you could have done.

01:08:44   Like you've got basically a D-pad, or like a track pad,

01:08:48   and like 24 letters plus all of the 26 letters,

01:08:52   however many letters.

01:08:53   (laughing)

01:08:55   - People are gonna, this is like the episode.

01:08:57   - Wow.

01:08:58   - The episode where we reveal ourselves

01:09:00   the dumbest people ever. The point I wanted to make was, so if you long press or if you hold

01:09:09   letter, you get the capital letters and the letters with accents. Oh man, I didn't know that.

01:09:15   Yeah, is there another way of doing it? Yeah, they go down to the bottom and you can,

01:09:20   it's like more or less switching to all caps. Okay, yeah. There's like a capital A, capital B,

01:09:25   capital C, and then there's the next one over is lowercase a, lowercase b, lowercase c. Okay,

01:09:29   I just tried the long press first and it worked.

01:09:32   I should have tried that. See, that's my failing, not theirs.

01:09:35   Because that seems like if I had to guess...

01:09:38   This is like the problem of talking about it with only one day of using it.

01:09:43   But that exactly makes sense. Brilliant.

01:09:46   Yeah. So it works way better and it's nice.

01:09:50   And you're still going back and forth through the alphabet, but it's not that big a deal.

01:09:54   I got actually pretty quick at doing that grid.

01:09:57   Like remember when we were kids and you'd have to type in codes?

01:10:01   Yeah.

01:10:02   And you'd get really good at it?

01:10:04   I got pretty good at like navigating that grid on the Apple TV.

01:10:08   You mean like codes like to...

01:10:12   Oh yeah, sorry, like a code for like an arcade game, like a Nintendo game.

01:10:15   Like, put in your code, your save code.

01:10:18   And you'd have to... they would have like a similar grid of letters and numbers.

01:10:23   Yeah, or remember when you used to get to enter three initials for a high score?

01:10:27   Right.

01:10:28   Right.

01:10:29   Man, those are the days.

01:10:30   What were your three initials?

01:10:31   GTE?

01:10:32   Uh, I think I would just put guy.

01:10:34   That's pretty good, yeah, that's pretty good.

01:10:38   I've mentioned this before.

01:10:39   Mine was GRU.

01:10:42   That's a good one.

01:10:43   Yeah, I don't know.

01:10:44   It just came to me early on and I thought it's better than the initials.

01:10:49   I have to admit, I don't think I got on the high scores that much.

01:10:53   I did on Star Wars.

01:10:54   Oh, of course you did.

01:10:56   Although on Star Wars, the coin-op Star Wars, the first three, every time you reset the machine,

01:11:02   the first three were built in, they're in the ROM and they're incredibly high.

01:11:07   So if you just bought, had a brand new Star Wars coin-op game,

01:11:12   and you played it the first time, the best you could probably do is to be fourth.

01:11:17   the top three were, it was like, one of them was like,

01:11:20   they were like in-jokes, like one of them was OBI.

01:11:23   - Oh, that's cool.

01:11:24   - Yeah, but I thought that they were so high

01:11:27   that they were impossible, and then one time

01:11:28   I was in an arcade and I saw, it was like the first time,

01:11:31   like I thought I was the baddest ass at Star Wars

01:11:33   who'd ever lived, 'cause there was no internet,

01:11:35   so you couldn't, you never found out about the people

01:11:38   who were really good at games.

01:11:40   And I was just waiting for the machine,

01:11:42   and I was like, Christ, how many games

01:11:44   is this guy gonna play?

01:11:45   And I like, look, and he had like this score

01:11:50   that boggled my mind, and he was at a level

01:11:53   that I didn't think you'd ever be able to get to.

01:11:55   And I was just like, oh, I'm actually not very good

01:12:00   at this game at all.

01:12:02   - That was a great game, though.

01:12:04   - It was a good game.

01:12:06   Vector graphics.

01:12:10   All right, the keyboard's good, the focus section.

01:12:14   Video playback, so this is the part,

01:12:18   I mentioned this before, so when you fast forward

01:12:21   and rewind and scrub the video, it is so good.

01:12:24   It is, to me, everything that they promised on stage.

01:12:27   It works great in Apple's app,

01:12:33   like when you play the movies and TV shows

01:12:36   that you get from iTunes.

01:12:37   It's available, this is what I've been told,

01:12:40   It is available to developers,

01:12:42   and they encourage all developers to do it,

01:12:43   but they can't, it's not like every app

01:12:46   will do it right automatically.

01:12:48   Like somebody could make like a streaming app

01:12:50   that doesn't use the best APIs for this,

01:12:54   or that maybe the server that's sending the streaming video

01:12:56   doesn't do something that they need to have happen.

01:12:58   So there might be, I haven't seen any yet,

01:13:00   but I haven't played with a lot

01:13:01   of the third-party video apps yet.

01:13:03   But it seemed as though they were sort of bracing me

01:13:07   for the fact that maybe in some third-party apps video,

01:13:10   the scrubbing of the video isn't going to be as awesome as it is in Apple's.

01:13:15   But it could be. They're not using APIs that aren't available to third-party apps,

01:13:18   but developers might have to do some work on that.

01:13:22   Yeah, I would imagine that that's a collaboration between the backend server stuff and the app itself.

01:13:25   Because you do have to, at some point when you start doing the scrubbing,

01:13:32   you need to see where the thumbnail.

01:13:36   So it's got to come from somewhere.

01:13:38   So it's probably kind of difficult to coordinate.

01:13:42   And some apps may just do raw streaming.

01:13:44   - Yeah. - I think the Apple TV app

01:13:47   reads ahead as much as it can, basically.

01:13:50   - Right, but I will say this,

01:13:52   'cause we watched a movie last night on Netflix.

01:13:54   It was exactly, it was like,

01:13:56   we're right out of a commercial for Apple TV,

01:14:01   where we wanted, 'cause it's Halloween season,

01:14:04   so we wanted to watch a scary movie.

01:14:05   So we were gonna watch Scream and ask Siri for,

01:14:10   show me the movie Scream.

01:14:14   And we'd already entered our Netflix password.

01:14:17   And the first thing that came up was Netflix had the movie

01:14:22   and they prioritize free.

01:14:24   So if there's a way in one of the apps

01:14:27   you've configured on Apple TV

01:14:29   to watch what you're looking for for free,

01:14:31   that will be the first option.

01:14:32   So it's not just that they show third party options.

01:14:35   They will show them before Apple's own option

01:14:40   just because they prioritize free.

01:14:44   Like they-- - That's good.

01:14:45   That's really good.

01:14:46   - I mentioned-- - Some things I like

01:14:47   about Apple is that they do actually.

01:14:49   - I mentioned it last night when it worked like that.

01:14:52   I was like, they told me that it would prioritize free.

01:14:54   And Amy, that gave me like,

01:14:57   you're actually gonna praise them for doing the obvious,

01:15:01   for not trying to charge you four dollars for a movie you could watch for

01:15:04   you should be able to watch for free because you have netflix

01:15:08   and i was like well she has a point but i mean

01:15:11   it's i guess yeah we are so jaded and accustomed to companies but i mean

01:15:18   i would not have been surprised at all if they if if they had

01:15:22   prioritized itunes you know or at least you know not prioritized but yeah well i

01:15:25   guess whoever's first is prioritized if itunes was always first

01:15:29   I would not have been shocked at all. In fact, I remember having a similar thing years ago.

01:15:33   I invented a movie, I forget which one, and then months later

01:15:37   I went to go and watch it again. So I invented it again.

01:15:41   And iTunes or the TV came back and told me

01:15:45   "You invented this before. Are you sure you want to do it?"

01:15:49   I'm like, "Oh, that's super nice of you. Yes, I do. But thank you for

01:15:53   not just taking me my money."

01:15:57   easily just taking the money and being like, "Well, I guess you want to watch it again."

01:16:00   Right. And you know that somewhere inside Apple there's somebody who probably,

01:16:04   somebody who works for iTunes who probably was, somebody had to at least advocate for it a little.

01:16:09   Like, you know it was probably a debate inside. Yeah. Well, I mean, that doesn't just happen

01:16:13   either. Like, they have to go check, "Have I ever rented this movie before?" Like, that's cool.

01:16:19   That, you know, like somebody took active measures to make that a feature.

01:16:25   Right, because every single alert along the way, you know, they definitely, you know,

01:16:29   it's a terrible experience if it's too easy to accidentally rent something. Terrible.

01:16:33   And even Apple, nobody's, no company is so greedy that they want people to be angry at

01:16:37   them. So, they're, you know, I don't know that any, there's ever been a video on demand

01:16:42   platform that makes it too easy to rent something by accident. But yeah, that's an extra nice

01:16:47   step. And I feel like on this, on the new Apple TV, by being willing to say, "Hey,

01:16:51   You've got HBO Go and this movie is,

01:16:56   in HBO's current selection of movies,

01:16:58   you could just watch it there for free.

01:17:00   By making that the first option,

01:17:02   you know that again, there was probably somebody there

01:17:04   on the iTunes team who was like,

01:17:05   "Aw, come on, naw, let's put iTunes first."

01:17:08   And it's, you know, I'm glad they didn't do it.

01:17:10   It comes back to the old,

01:17:12   the thing we often come back to when talking about Apple,

01:17:14   that of the three people that Apple generally

01:17:17   has to think about, Apple themselves,

01:17:19   and what's in the best interest of the company.

01:17:22   They're users, the people who buy the products, and then last, developers.

01:17:27   That they do want to do well by all three, but the order tends to be

01:17:31   Apple first, user second, developer's third.

01:17:35   Here's a case where I think they're putting a user first.

01:17:41   Yeah.

01:17:43   I guess...

01:17:47   Well, yeah, I guess. I mean, they're putting the happiness of the users ahead, because they think that that's a longer term.

01:17:52   And art for their own success, right?

01:17:54   And arguably developers, too, right? So, like, you know, Netflix is a developer.

01:17:59   And the fact that Netflix can get their thing listed before iTunes's version of the same movie is good for them.

01:18:07   I think it's, you know, I'm not surprised, you know, it seems obvious, you know, it made my wife roll her eyes,

01:18:14   because it seems so obvious that this is the way it should be.

01:18:18   But you just know that there's a lot of little decisions

01:18:20   that Apple sometimes makes that don't

01:18:23   show that sort of priority.

01:18:24   Right.

01:18:26   So yeah, that was cool.

01:18:28   How do you like the Netflix app?

01:18:29   I thought it was great.

01:18:32   And I always thought that the old Apple TV Netflix app

01:18:35   was sort of crap.

01:18:37   And what else do we have?

01:18:40   Like Netflix, because Netflix is so device agnostic, right?

01:18:44   They've got no box of their own.

01:18:46   There's no Netflix box.

01:18:47   So they just wanna be everywhere, right?

01:18:49   They're built into TVs.

01:18:51   I was at a family member's house

01:18:53   for a kid's birthday party or something a couple months ago.

01:18:58   And somebody had Netflix built into their TV.

01:19:01   Like it wasn't like a box connected to their TV.

01:19:04   Like their TV--

01:19:04   - I have that.

01:19:05   I have that.

01:19:06   I could do Netflix on my TV.

01:19:07   I would any, which is bananas.

01:19:10   - It doesn't make any sense to me

01:19:11   because I don't, I'm just out of touch

01:19:13   on how computerized TVs are out of the box.

01:19:16   So Netflix is everywhere,

01:19:19   and with varying degrees of quality.

01:19:21   But I've always thought Apple TV

01:19:22   was actually one of the worst ones.

01:19:24   It just seemed a little, I don't know, half-assed.

01:19:29   - So I'm not sure how much it could have done,

01:19:33   because all of the old Apple stuff was basically this,

01:19:36   it's like a markdown language.

01:19:39   Sort of like HTML, but specifically just for doing

01:19:42   those kind of Apple TV apps, which is why they all kind of look the same and

01:19:46   we're kind of bland. Well, I always thought though that their streaming

01:19:49   wasn't that great either. Yeah. I mean if you just hit play and you wait a couple

01:19:55   seconds and then just play it right through it goes but you know you couldn't

01:19:58   fast forward or rewind worth a shit. Yeah, I think I just gave up trying to be

01:20:02   honest. Well, and I'm trying to remember the last time I was frustrated by that

01:20:06   and then I'm actually thinking like you know what I just don't think I bother.

01:20:09   Well, and who wonders how long Netflix has been working with Apple on the new Apple TV?

01:20:15   Because we know that the Apple TV, this Apple TV, the new one, the good one, has been in the works for a while.

01:20:21   And it seems like Apple and Netflix have a pretty good relationship for companies that more or less could be seen as competitors.

01:20:29   I'm not aware of any weird animosity stuff.

01:20:35   Netflix was there day one. They were on the phone. They were on everywhere.

01:20:39   And Netflix was on the old Apple TV very early on as one of the very first third-party partners that got that sort of relationship.

01:20:47   Yeah, I have a feeling that Netflix thinks its fight is with HBO.

01:20:51   Yeah, definitely.

01:20:53   And it doesn't want it, you can't fight a two-front war, right?

01:20:57   Like you can't take on all of the technology players and

01:20:59   like people like HBO or AMC in that.

01:21:01   >> Yeah.

01:21:02   Well, I think it's partly with HBO, but then there's a bunch of HBOs now.

01:21:07   And I also think that what Netflix sees is that one of their biggest

01:21:13   competitors is the fact that there's only so much time in the day.

01:21:19   And it's really that they've got a fight to make it worth your time, you know, that for a couple of hours every month, you're going to find something good to watch on Netflix.

01:21:28   Yeah, that's huge. And that way of looking at media is super interesting too, because that means video games can gobble up your TV.

01:21:36   Right. Just the amount of time, yeah. Just the amount of--there's only so much--everybody's got to go to sleep at some point.

01:21:43   finite amount of time and what are they going to do?

01:21:45   Well, if it's messing around on Twitter, then guess what?

01:21:47   They're not watching whatever it is,

01:21:50   your friends' reruns or something.

01:21:51   - Yeah.

01:21:53   So I don't know, I think that the video playback is great

01:21:55   and I know that it's going to be,

01:21:57   I'll take it for granted soon enough,

01:21:59   but at this point, I'm just,

01:22:00   I'm thrilled every time I fast forward and rewind.

01:22:04   - Yeah, it is really good.

01:22:05   They've done an amazing job with this little device.

01:22:07   Oh, did you, this is a weird one

01:22:09   that you probably didn't notice.

01:22:11   go to the main menu.

01:22:15   Okay. Home screen. Just put the remote down for, wait a bit.

01:22:19   Everything will dim, except for the icon that you've got focused.

01:22:23   It'll have like a spotlight on it. And then as soon

01:22:27   as you move the remote, move it, just nudge it,

01:22:31   the screen won't go back to normal. And they're using the accelerometer

01:22:35   inside the remote. Right. And when you put it down like on a coffee table or

01:22:39   or a couch, it is perfectly still.

01:22:41   - Yeah, exactly.

01:22:42   - So even like the difference between being perfectly still

01:22:47   because it's resting on your coffee table

01:22:48   versus it's in your hand, but you're not moving your hand,

01:22:52   it knows that it's in your hand.

01:22:54   - Exactly, it's just really nice.

01:22:57   It's a weird little touch, but it's just really cool.

01:22:59   Also, I love that they put an accelerometer in that thing.

01:23:03   For no apparent reason that we can see from the UI, right?

01:23:08   Right?

01:23:09   Yeah, well not in their UI, but it's obviously, you know, we can get into games, you know,

01:23:14   later as we work towards the end of this.

01:23:17   But I wonder though, I wonder though if they would have put an accelerometer in the remote

01:23:22   if they hadn't been thinking about games.

01:23:24   I don't know.

01:23:26   I mean, why do they use it?

01:23:27   They don't use it.

01:23:28   Except for that nice little touch.

01:23:30   So I don't know.

01:23:34   I'm super happy that they put it in there.

01:23:36   Yeah.

01:23:37   What do you think about the screensavers?

01:23:40   I love them. I think they're so gorgeous. They're like hypnotic.

01:23:43   Yeah, I can't get enough of them.

01:23:45   I have a...

01:23:47   My old screensaver is a shared thing, but it's just photos of

01:23:53   Indy, like Vicky's dog, basically.

01:23:55   And he's so cute, so I love watching that.

01:23:57   But I feel kind of bad, because now I just leave the standard city screen

01:24:02   viewers, screensavers.

01:24:04   And they are gorgeous.

01:24:07   I don't know how they shot those, but it's amazing.

01:24:09   Yeah, there's something.

01:24:11   It would be a great-- well, they're Apple,

01:24:14   so maybe they won't.

01:24:15   But with new Apple, you never know.

01:24:16   It would be interesting if they did

01:24:18   one of those little behind the scenes things

01:24:20   that they sometimes do and just showed how they made them.

01:24:23   Because it really caught Jonas's eye, too.

01:24:26   He even asked the question, how did they do this?

01:24:28   Because it somehow looks different than the footage

01:24:32   that you typically see shot out of like a helicopter.

01:24:35   - Yeah, I don't know if it's drones or if it's a helicopter,

01:24:40   but shot at a super high frame rate.

01:24:42   - Right.

01:24:43   - But it's not actually, 'cause you can see cars

01:24:44   driving down the street at some point.

01:24:45   - Yeah, there's definitely some kind of high frame rate,

01:24:50   but it definitely is not like a static image.

01:24:54   I guess it's drones?

01:24:55   The New York Times had a piece this week

01:24:59   on the way that Greenland is melting at an alarming rate.

01:25:03   Yeah.

01:25:04   And the team of researchers from, I

01:25:08   think it was like the University of Wisconsin, whoever it was,

01:25:10   doing this.

01:25:12   It was an amazing story just to hear about what they're doing

01:25:15   and the danger, just the danger of going up there

01:25:18   and having this water rush by.

01:25:20   Like if the ice you're standing on

01:25:22   to measure the temperature of the water cracked and went in,

01:25:24   you-- like they said, the chance of death is 100%.

01:25:28   There's nothing that anybody would be able to do to save you.

01:25:31   Kind of terrifying.

01:25:33   Certainly has a sense of being at the end of the world.

01:25:36   You're up here and all you see is ice and stuff like that.

01:25:40   So it's a great story in general, really interesting,

01:25:42   fascinating.

01:25:42   But the thing that really captivated me

01:25:44   was the video footage they had from these drones.

01:25:47   And it just occurred to me-- and they

01:25:49   were talking about the budget concerns

01:25:50   that these scientists have, that they're using taxpayer money.

01:25:55   And it's just really, really tight budget.

01:25:58   Like, every single dollar had to be accounted for just to get--

01:26:02   and some of the stuff is so expensive.

01:26:04   It was like $5,000 an hour for the helicopter that drove them to--

01:26:08   or flew them to where they were going.

01:26:11   It just occurred to me that even just like 10 years ago,

01:26:13   there's no way they would have gotten any kind of aerial video footage.

01:26:17   Because of-- drones have absolutely fundamentally

01:26:22   changed the type of footage we get.

01:26:25   it's like video footage that would have cost,

01:26:28   that would have been like in the budget

01:26:29   of like a $20 million documentary film.

01:26:33   Now a team of university researchers

01:26:35   can get just as good at footage.

01:26:37   - Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

01:26:39   - There is a certain smoothness to drone footage

01:26:41   that I guess that's what Apple use,

01:26:43   but I don't know, these screensavers are--

01:26:45   - They look great, yeah.

01:26:47   Did you hear, just because we're in the weeds here,

01:26:50   researchers were using drones

01:26:54   to check out bears hibernating,

01:26:56   but the drones would wake them up.

01:26:57   - Oh.

01:26:58   - So we screwed up a bunch of bears.

01:27:01   - It's like some kind of Heisenberg joke insert there.

01:27:08   (laughing)

01:27:10   And it's funny too to think about,

01:27:13   'cause I'll bet the bears were annoyed.

01:27:16   - Yeah, it's this buzzing thing hanging around here.

01:27:18   Of course you're gonna be like, what is this?

01:27:20   This is not natural.

01:27:22   - Bears just seem like the type of animal

01:27:24   just don't want to annoy.

01:27:26   (laughs)

01:27:27   - So you send a robot to do it for you.

01:27:29   - Right.

01:27:30   Like imagine if you were on a hike

01:27:31   and you had nothing to do with the drones

01:27:33   or the research, you're just in bear country.

01:27:35   (laughs)

01:27:36   And now there's like a bunch of angry bears

01:27:38   that got woken up in the middle of their hibernation.

01:27:42   - Oops.

01:27:45   - I've always been a little jealous of bears.

01:27:49   - Why, 'cause the people they can--

01:27:51   - Hibernating sounds like the best thing.

01:27:55   Like, doesn't that just seem great?

01:27:57   Like, just skip winter.

01:27:59   - Yeah.

01:28:00   - You just skip it.

01:28:01   - Sounds pretty luxurious.

01:28:02   - Yeah.

01:28:03   - I mean, I'm sure like the realities of it are not great,

01:28:05   but...

01:28:06   - Oh man, I bet, you know,

01:28:08   they've got all that fat in the fur.

01:28:10   - Yeah.

01:28:10   - They're nice and warm.

01:28:11   I think, you know, it's like getting to be like,

01:28:14   you know, late November, starting to get cold.

01:28:16   You make one good kill, have a good meal.

01:28:20   And then you're like, you know what?

01:28:21   - You know what, that was it.

01:28:23   You're like, that was it, that was a good rabbit

01:28:25   I just ate and then you just go and next thing you know,

01:28:27   man, you just sleep for four months.

01:28:29   That'd be awesome.

01:28:30   - That does sound pretty good.

01:28:32   - I read, I do remember reading once

01:28:35   'cause I'm fascinated by it, by hibernation.

01:28:40   I wish I could, I would do it.

01:28:41   That'd be great, just shut the daring fireball down

01:28:43   for four months just, you know, hibernating.

01:28:46   I'll just put up a thing, you know, sleeping.

01:28:49   And then just wake up and it's spring, right?

01:28:50   You just skip all the no sunshine, skip the sun going down at five at night, skip the cold temperature.

01:28:59   It is weird. Do they wake up ever?

01:29:01   Yeah, they do. That's the thing I was going to say. They don't actually sleep continuously for four months.

01:29:06   They do wake up and take a piss every once in a while.

01:29:10   Oh, so they even move?

01:29:12   Yeah.

01:29:13   Oh, okay. So it means...

01:29:15   Well, that makes sense.

01:29:18   it's like the equivalent of waking up in the middle of the night though and going

01:29:21   to the bathroom. Yeah, and then just going back. Just on a four-month schedule. You

01:29:25   just wake up and you know maybe get it. Man, that sounds like the lap of luxury.

01:29:29   Get a drink of water. Yeah, that does sound pretty good. I just like sleeping.

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01:33:38   All right, what else we got on Apple TV?

01:33:42   Oh, here's one I noticed, and speaking of games.

01:33:48   Here's one I noticed, and I can't believe,

01:33:52   this one is maybe the first thing that I encountered

01:33:55   that surprised me.

01:33:56   So we did the thing like I talked about, where we,

01:34:00   okay, you have a new Apple TV, use your iPhone,

01:34:04   and it'll send your WiFi password and your Apple ID

01:34:08   and stuff like that.

01:34:09   All work great, but for Game Center,

01:34:12   that means that our Apple TV is me.

01:34:15   And when we launch a game that is Game Center integration,

01:34:18   it says, "Hello, Gruber."

01:34:19   And it doesn't seem like there's any easy way to switch.

01:34:23   Like it seems to me like it oughta be like PS4 and Xbox,

01:34:28   where you can set up multiple profiles

01:34:31   that Jonas can easily, when he's playing a game, easily switch to his Apple ID and not

01:34:37   have to log out and log in and type his password, which is ridiculous. It seems like you should

01:34:42   be able to have multiple Game Center profiles. I understand why you don't on an iOS device,

01:34:46   because they're designed to be personal. And I know that a lot of people wish that the

01:34:51   iPad in particular could have multiple user accounts. But that's just not how they're

01:34:56   designed. But Apple TV, by definition, is designed to be used by everybody who lives

01:35:00   in the same household. I agree. I think it's a big oversight. I'm really surprised. I mean,

01:35:05   I can't help but think that they know about it. And even given all the time that they've

01:35:08   spent working on it, I just can't help but hope that this is just, "Well, we didn't get

01:35:13   to that yet." Yeah. Well, I have to assume it's "we didn't get to that yet." But I'm

01:35:17   not entirely sure how closely tied the Game Center account is to your Apple ID. If you

01:35:24   switch to the Game Center account, it should be totally separate, right? It is. Yeah. And

01:35:29   You can also do the same thing like with the iPhone.

01:35:33   You can have a different iTunes store account

01:35:35   from your iCloud account.

01:35:38   So if you, like I do, like a dummy,

01:35:41   I have an Apple ID that I use for iCloud.

01:35:44   This is the thing I get email from.

01:35:45   It's the address where you can send me iMessages.

01:35:48   But I have a different account for my store purchases.

01:35:52   I think there's a lot of, like,

01:35:53   people who've been using iTunes

01:35:54   since the early days of the store,

01:35:55   a lot of people might have that type of setup.

01:35:57   - It's weird.

01:35:58   I started with an iTunes account.

01:36:01   Yeah, iTunes. I remember iTunes.

01:36:04   Was the domain iTunes back then or did they not even have email?

01:36:09   I can't remember.

01:36:13   For me it was...

01:36:14   I do know that I give everybody, like my Mac.com is what I give everybody,

01:36:18   despite the fact that it's...

01:36:20   Here's one thing that bugs me.

01:36:22   Mac and Me and iCloud and all of their experimental stuff down into one account.

01:36:27   They just counted all of the same.

01:36:34   But other services don't.

01:36:36   So I'll get a Google invite to a Google group and it'll be like my @me account.

01:36:39   I can't log in because it's .Mac or I used iCloud.

01:36:44   It's frustrating.

01:36:49   Yeah, it's the penalty of not having the foresight to pick the right one.

01:36:51   not having the foresight to pick the right domain

01:36:54   off the start.

01:36:56   Compare and contrast with Google, who nailed it, right?

01:36:59   It was, it used to be that Google didn't have any way

01:37:02   that you could get email from them.

01:37:04   And then low one April Fool's Day, they said,

01:37:07   "Okay, now we have a thing called Gmail,

01:37:10   "and you can sign up for whatever you want at gmail.com."

01:37:13   And 10 years later, it's exactly the same,

01:37:17   and you've never had to worry about it.

01:37:18   They didn't change it to Google Mail,

01:37:19   they didn't change it to @Google.

01:37:21   Last month, they didn't change it to Alphabet or AML.

01:37:24   That's what Amy gets, Amy gets AML.

01:37:29   You know, they just got it right the first time

01:37:33   and nobody ever has to worry about it.

01:37:35   And you know, like I still use the Mac.com too,

01:37:38   but every once in a while, for whatever reason,

01:37:40   it's like something will come in to me.com and--

01:37:44   - Yeah, it gets annoying.

01:37:45   - Yeah, and like you said, other services don't see that

01:37:48   just being the synonyms for the same email account.

01:37:51   Yeah. And I know that they--so they rebranded them.

01:37:55   Because they're like, "Okay, that last one sucked." And they've done that three times now.

01:38:00   But it's just collateral damage for long-term users. Every time they change it up, it's like, "Ah, man."

01:38:06   Yeah. I like sticking with the Mac.com one, just out of nostalgia.

01:38:10   But that was the name that was the most short-sighted.

01:38:14   known that they were going to use this for more than just the Mac. Yeah. Oops. Well, anyway, you can

01:38:22   have a different ID for the store than for your iCloud. So to get like your photos and stuff in

01:38:28   through the photo syncing, you can have a different account for that and you can have a different

01:38:32   account for Game Center. It defaults to whichever one you use when you first set it up because for

01:38:37   most people that's the right thing is they're going to use the same ID for all of those things.

01:38:42   But it doesn't seem like there's any way-- unless I miss something-- it doesn't seem like there's any way to switch Game Center accounts.

01:38:47   It does fuel it, not in a point of release, but eventually a multi-user system would make a lot of sense for the TV, right?

01:38:56   Yeah, it seems like it. Because it really does seem-- and Netflix has a pretty good thing for that,

01:39:02   where you can tell Netflix how many people are in your family, and right when you launch the app, who's watching?

01:39:07   - Yeah, it even asks me, it says guy or kids,

01:39:10   and I don't even have any kids, but I'm like, still me.

01:39:14   I think I use kids when I'm babysitting,

01:39:17   like my friend's kid or something.

01:39:19   - Right, and keep them out of the, you know.

01:39:22   - Well, it's not like there's anything crazy on there.

01:39:24   - Well, I wasn't even thinking crazy,

01:39:26   but with kids, I mean, even like,

01:39:28   depending on how young they are, even like PG-13 stuff is--

01:39:31   - Yeah, yeah, there can be some pretty scary stuff, yeah.

01:39:33   - I mean, you don't wanna have kids

01:39:36   watching Indiana Jones eat the monkey brains.

01:39:38   - Yeah, exactly.

01:39:39   Well, especially when I'm babysitting.

01:39:41   - Right.

01:39:42   - Which is like, just don't screw this one up.

01:39:45   - I was guy, it was great,

01:39:47   you made me watch a man eat a monkey's brain.

01:39:50   And then all of a sudden you're in trouble.

01:39:52   You're like, it's Indiana Jones.

01:39:53   - Yeah, so that needs to change at some point.

01:39:58   'Cause that would, that affects a lot of stuff, right?

01:40:01   'Cause if you can change users,

01:40:03   then suggestions can change.

01:40:06   Basically system-wide you can start doing more interesting stuff.

01:40:10   Like the apps on the home screen can change.

01:40:13   Yeah, totally.

01:40:15   You don't necessarily want Minecraft or whatever.

01:40:18   I can't even think of anything.

01:40:20   But a pile of stuff that Jonas wants, you don't necessarily want, right?

01:40:24   Right. I think in the long run,

01:40:27   almost any and all games that we end up with this thing are going to be for Jonas, not for me.

01:40:31   I mean, so in some sense...

01:40:33   I mean, he doesn't want to see Wall Street Journal video thing.

01:40:37   Like the whole things DE conference is not necessarily going to be tuning into that all the time.

01:40:43   I don't know why.

01:40:49   It's just me and you, so I'll brag.

01:40:51   But I was happy when I installed Cannibalt.

01:40:54   And I got Cannibalt from the list of...

01:40:56   I guess they've made it... what are they calling it?

01:40:58   it a universal, it's not a universal binary, but like a universal download. So like if

01:41:02   you already own it, you can just download it for free. So it was like, here's all the

01:41:05   apps I've already purchased that have Apple TV apps today. And I went to Cannibal. And

01:41:10   the app description for Cannibal starts with a quote from me about how nice a game it is,

01:41:16   which is really close. And I look at Jonas and I was like, yeah, and Jonas, he just looked

01:41:22   at me and he was like, doesn't even mention you by name, it just says "Daring Fireball."

01:41:29   I was like, I was trying to impress you.

01:41:31   He was like, wow, that's not impressive.

01:41:34   He's got a good head on his shoulders though.

01:41:36   I know you're proud and that's awesome, but it's good that he's not like...

01:41:40   No, he is not wild at all.

01:41:42   He is not impressed.

01:41:43   I thought it was pretty cool though.

01:41:46   But I also think it's cool because I am obviously not very well known for my game reviews.

01:41:50   I don't play many games.

01:41:53   And so I think that's what made it so surprising to me.

01:41:57   I think if you added up all of the games I've even mentioned

01:42:01   in what, 13 years of writing Daring Fireball,

01:42:05   you probably still might have some fingers to spare.

01:42:08   Certainly wouldn't use up all your fingers and toes.

01:42:11   It's gotta be less than 20.

01:42:13   - Yeah, yeah, you don't talk about games much at all.

01:42:15   - So I thought that was pretty cool.

01:42:16   - Yeah, so Cannonball's cool.

01:42:20   Adam put in quite a bit of work to get that working.

01:42:23   Not quite a bit of work.

01:42:24   He spent like a week to get it working,

01:42:25   but he had to do this UI focus thing.

01:42:28   - Hmm.

01:42:28   Yeah, it's actually, there is sort of,

01:42:32   'cause it's become a bigger game in some ways

01:42:35   than it used to be.

01:42:36   Like there's some kind of,

01:42:37   I haven't played in a long time.

01:42:38   Maybe the iPhone game has it too,

01:42:39   but like at the beginning there,

01:42:40   you can select like a level or something.

01:42:43   I didn't even know.

01:42:43   I only played the default again, but it was excellent.

01:42:47   So he did have to do work.

01:42:48   You know him?

01:42:49   - Yeah, yeah.

01:42:50   - Oh, I didn't know that.

01:42:51   - Yeah, I've worked with him before.

01:42:52   - Yeah, it translates very well.

01:42:54   And it's, you know--

01:42:55   - It does, yeah, it's great.

01:42:57   Alto's Adventure is good, you know, try out that one.

01:43:00   - All right, I haven't heard of it.

01:43:02   I've never heard of this game.

01:43:03   - It's a snowboarding one.

01:43:04   It's, again, similar kind of idea

01:43:06   in that it's like an infinite runner

01:43:08   if you're on a snowboard.

01:43:09   - Is this the one that Syracuse is always

01:43:11   talking about on ATP?

01:43:14   - I don't know.

01:43:16   - I think it is.

01:43:17   And he talks about it in a way where I can just, I can hear him sighing at my ignorance of Alto's adventure.

01:43:24   And I can hear him calling me an old man right now.

01:43:28   Could be desert golfing, too. I know they talk about that.

01:43:31   Oh, I know desert golfing. Son of a bitch, I came as addictive.

01:43:34   I don't think that one would work on the TV, though, would it? I guess it could.

01:43:38   I don't know. I don't know. Guess what? I haven't tried it.

01:43:42   Interestingly, our pal Matt Colby and Nevin have got Space Age.

01:43:52   I saw that. It was in my... It's one of the ones that I definitely know of.

01:43:57   And it was in my list of, "Hey, you already own this thing."

01:44:03   Yeah. So, I tried it for about two minutes last night. It was getting late by the time.

01:44:08   It was way too lit, it wasn't making any sense.

01:44:11   But it's interesting in that they do with the trackpad

01:44:15   what you're suggesting and in that there is,

01:44:18   there's a cursor on the screen that you move using

01:44:21   and then you click because it's,

01:44:22   Space Age works more like a standard,

01:44:27   like an RTS game, right?

01:44:28   - Right. - You've got units

01:44:29   that you select and move them around.

01:44:31   - Right. - So they've had to make

01:44:32   affordances to get that on the TV.

01:44:35   So you can scroll a view by holding down

01:44:36   the play/pause button and then the trackpad will move the window around.

01:44:43   And then if you're just not holding down the play/pause button, then you're moving effectively

01:44:47   the mouse cursor around.

01:44:49   Do they have a little first run tutorial where they tell you what to do?

01:44:52   Yeah, they do.

01:44:53   No, that makes sense.

01:44:54   And I think for games, there's nothing wrong with a cursor.

01:44:58   And I think for certain games, obviously, like for some of the strategy type games like

01:45:02   where it makes all the sense in the world.

01:45:04   What else was an interesting game?

01:45:10   I was thinking about something else.

01:45:13   Oh, forget it.

01:45:13   But so, I guess one thing I'm surprised,

01:45:18   there are a lot, there's a lot of games available already,

01:45:21   day one, I think that's pretty impressive.

01:45:23   And I think it's surprising how much some of them,

01:45:25   this is where I was going,

01:45:26   is I'm surprised at how many of them

01:45:28   that were designed for a touchscreen device,

01:45:31   like iPhone or iPad, actually seemed to translate pretty well to the trackpad device.

01:45:38   Yeah, seems that way so far. Again, I've spent a day with it, so it's kind of hard to tell.

01:45:44   But, I mean, so an infinite runner is a little bit easy, right? Because you hit a jump button.

01:45:51   So, problem solved. But yeah, a lot of games seemed that they came over pretty well.

01:46:00   I do have a, like my working theory is that like games will, it's like water, like they will take

01:46:12   the form of whatever the platform best supports. So I think we'll start seeing some pretty

01:46:15   interesting games in a while. But they will be tailored to this trackpad and the motion controller

01:46:22   and the interaction that the TV has. Rather than being a port from something else, you know?

01:46:27   Yeah, one of the games we got I don't know if it must be a port I think because anything that's out already had to

01:46:32   Have been a port but we had this game called

01:46:34   Manta manta core man TI co re it's a 3d space shooter

01:46:40   You're this like the last surviving pilot of the you know

01:46:45   The good guys and you're flying a spaceship in outer space and you know

01:46:50   killing bad guys

01:46:54   Graphically seems pretty good

01:46:56   Jonas gave it a thumbs up

01:46:59   You know, but this is more of a serious game. This is like a game game

01:47:03   Real 3d and the controls I had to let Jonas play because I was so bad

01:47:08   It was I hear you play you play and I'll watch but the controls are accelerometer based

01:47:14   And so you steer the ship in 3d

01:47:17   by the motion of the device and

01:47:22   Jonas got the hang of it pretty quickly. He was doing pretty good

01:47:25   He had or at least he clearly had control over the ship and then you flick up

01:47:29   To do like a speed boost and you flick down on the trackpad to slow

01:47:34   and

01:47:36   It shoots automatically so you don't have to fire trigger if if there's bad guys in the sights of your gun

01:47:44   It just fires

01:47:47   Which is to me all told for you know to me. What is a complicated idea a 3d space shooter?

01:47:53   a pretty good simplification for a simple remote yeah

01:47:58   accelerometer to move

01:48:01   Flick up for fast down for slow, and you don't have to worry about a trigger it just shoots

01:48:06   Yeah, it seems to make sense. I'm gonna check that one out tonight

01:48:09   Yeah, and it's cool to you know

01:48:13   just a cool little thing to me is that and it's you know I know it's it's not

01:48:18   the only game but it's obviously a trend the the protagonist is a woman oh cool

01:48:25   it's you know and it doesn't seem you know they don't really make a big deal

01:48:28   out of it it's just you know that this the woman it's you're the woman who's

01:48:31   the last star pilot of whatever the good guys are calling it that's good awesome

01:48:35   I mean it's arbitrary anyway so yeah why not you know I mean like right whatever

01:48:43   It doesn't sound like there's enough story there that any kind of gender is going to make any kind of difference.

01:48:47   Me having said that, just the last 40 seconds of the show, I'm not part of gamer gay now, am I?

01:48:54   Don't get me started on gamer gay.

01:48:59   I don't know. I just don't understand it.

01:49:01   I don't know. I don't even understand it.

01:49:03   I just worry that it's like, somebody says something like that, like, "Hey, that's pretty cool that the cool pilot is a woman."

01:49:08   And then all of a sudden, you're part of a controversy that shouldn't be controversial.

01:49:12   So anyway, I thought it was pretty cool.

01:49:14   - Yeah, oh, Adam went back and added a female runner

01:49:19   to time vault.

01:49:20   - Oh yeah, I saw that, we got that,

01:49:21   and you just get it randomly.

01:49:23   - Yeah. - Yeah, we got that.

01:49:25   - Yeah, that's cool.

01:49:28   - Yeah, and just like a ninja, too.

01:49:31   - Yeah, he had a few of them, yeah.

01:49:32   - Yeah, and very nice, very, very nice touch.

01:49:34   We got the Beat Sports game, which was pretty fun.

01:49:42   I guess my biggest complaint about it is that it's so derivative of Wii Sports in certain

01:49:51   ways that I feel like, okay, the basic concept of you having an accelerometer type control

01:49:57   in your hand that you actually swing to make the player on screen swing at a ball.

01:50:03   Okay, obviously that's the same idea, but I feel like you're allowed to do that without

01:50:09   being called a ripoff, but they do little things that to me are like, it's like the

01:50:14   crowd noise and the way that the levels start, it really feels like a little too close to

01:50:21   "we" in style.

01:50:23   The basic idea of the concept, okay, of course, the comparisons are inevitable.

01:50:28   But some of the details, some of the sound effects are so Nintendo-like, it just seems

01:50:32   a little "mm," makes me kind of grip my teeth.

01:50:36   Yeah, it's one thing to do something in the spirit of another game, it's another thing

01:50:41   to kind of just rip it off.

01:50:42   Right, and even the name, when you say it out loud, Beat Sports sounds so much like

01:50:46   Wii Sports that it's, I don't know.

01:50:49   But it's a cool game, I have to say.

01:50:52   I mean, just based on the name, you know what the pitch was in the room, right?

01:51:00   The pitch was Wii Sports without any Nintendo intellectual property.

01:51:05   Yeah.

01:51:06   But that's another one too and it popped into my head here.

01:51:09   I have it written down but it popped into my head because it's, what do they call it?

01:51:15   It's like instead of a Wii, it's your beat or something.

01:51:19   But anyway, your avatar.

01:51:21   And it's, you know, a total range of skin tones and gender and outfits and, you know,

01:51:27   another thing to me that's the way games ought to be.

01:51:30   That's cool.

01:51:31   Yeah, it's good to think of moving into that.

01:51:34   your default though the default character is a girl if you don't if just like out of

01:51:39   the box it's like she's I don't know what her name is but she must probably have some

01:51:42   kind of name she's like their Mario I guess that's cool I mean yeah the problem with that

01:51:52   game I'll just say the problem with the beat sports is that you can only have one Apple

01:51:57   TV remote or Siri remote I guess they call it right so for one player you know it doesn't

01:52:03   matter but when you play two player the way that you play two player is you have

01:52:08   to download their free app for the phone and when you play two player it no

01:52:12   longer becomes accelerometer based it it's all swipe based huh so one get one

01:52:19   person plays on their phone the other person plays on the remote because I was

01:52:22   wondering about it I was like I don't know accelerometer with the iPhones

01:52:26   seems like a disastrous idea like as much as they're worried and Nintendo you

01:52:30   I remember Nintendo had to send out those bracelets that you connect to the Wiimote.

01:52:36   Yeah, Wiimote and the TV.

01:52:38   Apple has one too.

01:52:39   Apple has one for the...

01:52:40   It doesn't come with it.

01:52:41   You have to pay extra for it, but you can get a bracelet with it.

01:52:46   And it connects to the lightning port and has like a little lock, so you have to squeeze

01:52:52   it to get it out.

01:52:53   Hmm, that's cool.

01:52:54   Well, it just seemed to me like a terrible idea to be swinging your iPhone around like

01:52:58   a paddle.

01:52:59   They don't let you do that. It's all swipe based. But in other words, but then unlike Wii Sports, you're playing like a totally different game.

01:53:06   It feels like when you're playing two-player instead of one-player.

01:53:10   That's weird.

01:53:11   I'm gonna have to give that a try because I mean changing the game mechanic is weird. Like those are just different games.

01:53:18   Yeah, it's very different. But you know, like you said, it's just you so

01:53:22   I don't have to worry about it. It's just one-player mode. The other thing, and Jonas picked up on this.

01:53:27   This is it's been a lot of fun for me as a dad because Jonas is you know

01:53:31   Really really into video games video games are his thing

01:53:33   and

01:53:35   so it was really it's been really fun for me playing with Apple TV with him and playing with the games because

01:53:40   He's better at not just better at playing games, but he's a more astute

01:53:46   Observer of the cleverness that's going on

01:53:49   He picked up on the what beat sports is so the the thing about beat sports that is completely original and that's it

01:53:55   And I think that's how they justify the name beat sports is that it's music based

01:54:01   Christina Warren wrote about it too in her review of it that she called it like a

01:54:05   mashup of Wii Sports and

01:54:08   Guitar Hero

01:54:10   so it's the timing and the timing is tied to the music of the game and

01:54:15   So the moment when you're supposed to like if you're playing their version of tennis the moment you're supposed to hit the ball

01:54:20   coincides to like a

01:54:24   moment in the music where there's going to be like a sound the sound that it

01:54:28   makes as you hit the ball is part of the music and so that's how you get your

01:54:32   timing down your timing isn't so much about what you see your timing is more

01:54:37   like what you hear yeah I love this kind of games like I wouldn't I wouldn't go

01:54:42   so far as to say you could play with your eyes closed but it's the same way

01:54:45   though that you definitely can't play with the sound off like if you turn the

01:54:49   sound off you're not gonna you're not gonna get it it's not your timing is

01:54:52   never gonna be right which is pretty interesting yeah there there's been a

01:54:56   few cool games like that rez comes to mind from like 20 years ago but yeah

01:55:02   it's like you if you're getting in the groove of the music you start doing way

01:55:06   better John August actually had worked on the new

01:55:13   karateka for iOS it is also musically rhythm based as you fight John August of

01:55:20   screenwriting fame.

01:55:22   Screenwriting fame, yeah.

01:55:24   With Jordan Meckner, who built the original Kratica.

01:55:27   Right, which was awesome.

01:55:29   And Adam Lusigler did the ad.

01:55:31   Yeah, it was terrific. He's got a great podcast, too.

01:55:34   Script Notes?

01:55:36   Script Notes is...

01:55:37   I can't say enough good things about it. I love it.

01:55:39   You know, it's funny, because when Marco was on the other week

01:55:42   and we talked about Hello Internet and what a great podcast it was,

01:55:44   it seemed... I don't know.

01:55:46   Maybe I should do more recommendations like that.

01:55:48   I don't listen to a ton of podcasts.

01:55:50   But I got so much email from people who are like,

01:55:52   "Wow, I never heard of this Hello Internet.

01:55:54   No offense to you, this might be my new favorite podcast."

01:55:57   And it's like, no offense taken.

01:55:59   It's a great podcast. They're really cool.

01:56:01   If you want another one, Script Notes, look it up.

01:56:04   But with John August talking about the, you know...

01:56:07   The screenwriting process, which is fascinating by itself.

01:56:09   But if you're in a creative line of work, it's good anyway.

01:56:15   Even if you're not in a movie business,

01:56:16   in the movie business, even if you're not a writer,

01:56:19   it's fascinating if you're just into,

01:56:21   if there's any kind of creativity in your work,

01:56:24   it's applicable, and great, great podcast.

01:56:28   - Yeah, he's co-hosted with Craig Mason.

01:56:32   - I will, I promise to forget to put it in the show.

01:56:35   - Perfect.

01:56:36   So-- - Script notes.

01:56:41   - Do you have anything else, like specific?

01:56:44   - Uh, I'm trying to think.

01:56:46   I guess the thing that I've kind of,

01:56:49   the review unit that I have now is,

01:56:53   I ordered mine but since I knew I was getting one

01:56:55   from Apple Thursday, I didn't pay the extra $17

01:56:59   for the, to get another one delivered today

01:57:02   'cause it seemed pointless.

01:57:03   So the one I ordered I guess won't come

01:57:05   'til next week sometime.

01:57:07   And I guess what I'm regretting is that I didn't order

01:57:09   the game controller.

01:57:10   There was this one game controller that Apple was,

01:57:12   I guess, sort of suggesting that you buy.

01:57:15   forget what it was called.

01:57:17   - That's interesting.

01:57:19   - And Jonas, this is the thing,

01:57:20   talking with Jonas about it,

01:57:21   is are we gonna want a game controller for this or not?

01:57:24   'Cause we have a PS4, so for anything,

01:57:26   the games like Destiny and when Star Wars Battlefront

01:57:30   comes out, it's gonna play games like that on the PS4.

01:57:35   And so, the question of whether we,

01:57:40   or we in particular, the Gruber household,

01:57:42   want a game controller or more than one game controller,

01:57:45   and whether lots of people are gonna want a game controller.

01:57:48   I don't know.

01:57:49   'Cause it seems to me like most of the games

01:57:50   I've tried so far really seem meant for the Apple TV remote.

01:57:55   - So there was a bit of a kerfuffle about that

01:57:57   because originally they released the TV design doc

01:58:02   saying that you could use third-party game controllers.

01:58:06   Then they changed it to say that your game

01:58:09   must support the Apple remote.

01:58:11   Right. In other words, what they took out was, it definitely said it, and they changed

01:58:18   it like 180 degrees. I think what you're trying to say is, it did say you can make a game

01:58:24   that has to have a game controller. And maybe, I guess it would be like there'd be a warning

01:58:29   in the store. Actually, I guess your Apple TV could know whether you have a controller

01:58:35   paired or not. And they could just say, "Hey, this game requires a controller and you don't

01:58:39   even have one paired with the game yet. Are you sure you want to buy this?" And then a

01:58:44   day later, the language changed to the exact opposite and said, "Your game must be fully

01:58:51   playable with the default remote."

01:58:53   Yeah, which just destroys so many classes of games. I still think you'll get a lot of

01:59:03   of cool games based on the remote,

01:59:05   but until they fix that game controller issue,

01:59:10   I think you're gonna be stymied.

01:59:12   - Yeah.

01:59:13   - Like you may have a chicken and egg,

01:59:14   like what you're saying is like,

01:59:16   I think if Jonas did see a lot of cool games

01:59:18   that needed the controller, you'd be like,

01:59:19   well, fine, let's get a controller.

01:59:22   But I think it'll chicken and egg it in a weird way

01:59:24   that nobody will make them 'cause they can't.

01:59:26   - Right.

01:59:27   - So.

01:59:28   - Yeah, I don't know.

01:59:29   I just wonder, I don't know, do you have one?

01:59:33   controller? No. Yeah. I don't even understand. I'll probably buy one. I might buy one. I'm trying to see where the hell...

01:59:39   It's... now that they don't have the Apple Store anymore, I don't even know where you go to

01:59:42   find it. I just remember that when I went to buy it, it had like an option. Here, I'll just buy a new one.

01:59:48   You know what I did find a bit confusing is it's hard to tell when you're in the iTunes store or

01:59:55   when you're just looking at like a show that you own. Right. Here, the SteelSeries Nimbus wireless game

02:00:01   controller is the one that Apple has as like a suggested add-on. Where was that?

02:00:12   It was from here. Is that Logitech? I don't know. It's weird. It doesn't seem

02:00:21   SteelSeries. You know what would be great if they could just support Xbox and PS4 controllers?

02:00:28   That's what I was wondering about.

02:00:30   Out of the box. It'll just detect them and...

02:00:32   Yeah. And it seems like if they just supported those out of the box,

02:00:36   it would solve a lot of the problem of X, Y, and Z.

02:00:40   They're known commodities.

02:00:42   Yeah, SteelSeries...

02:00:46   I don't even know how you know which ones work with it,

02:00:51   but Apple had one that they were selling and it was like $50.

02:00:57   Well, I mean, check it out after some more software comes out.

02:01:01   Yeah, so I don't know. I feel like this is one of the things that one day in, it's too early to tell whether everybody wants to get one or not.

02:01:10   I don't know what made me get cheap and not get one.

02:01:13   It doesn't sound like your usual play.

02:01:18   I stare around the office here, my office, and it's just filled with things that I've spent $50 on, on the, on the notion of, well, why the hell not?

02:01:29   And yet somehow, in this one particular instance, I didn't do it. And now I regret it.

02:01:35   Did you get the 64 meg one?

02:01:37   Oh, I got the big one.

02:01:38   Yeah.

02:01:38   Yeah.

02:01:39   Now, you know what?

02:01:40   I still am not entirely clear on what the benefit is.

02:01:45   I just feel like for 50 bucks I might as well... I don't want to run out of space.

02:01:49   Yeah, but they're selling them as two different units, right?

02:01:52   Is that so that the lesser one

02:01:56   makes you buy the bigger one? Is that it? They didn't want to come out with a $200 thing?

02:02:00   I guess. I do wonder though, why not just have one?

02:02:07   I guess that the margins are better enough.

02:02:11   We talk about this with everything.

02:02:12   Obviously, endlessly over the last year or two,

02:02:15   about these 16 gigabyte iPhones, and how much

02:02:18   does it cost Apple to get the 32 instead of 16?

02:02:22   What are their costs?

02:02:24   I mean, most people seem to think

02:02:26   it only costs like a buck or two bucks or something

02:02:28   at their scale to do it.

02:02:31   The $50 difference between these two Apple TVs,

02:02:34   it can't possibly be anywhere even close to $50 in difference

02:02:38   for the memory.

02:02:40   I mean, I say that without actually knowing,

02:02:43   but it just seems almost impossible.

02:02:46   - 50 bucks for any one component seems way, not likely.

02:02:50   - Right, or even give them their usual 30 or 40% profit

02:02:54   margins and so assume that the cost is $35 or something.

02:02:57   It just doesn't seem right.

02:02:58   Not when you can go and buy 32 gigs of really good

02:03:01   flash memory from Amazon just as a card

02:03:04   and it doesn't cost that much.

02:03:06   So I don't know.

02:03:09   And it just seems like it would be so much simpler.

02:03:11   It would take out this whole decision.

02:03:13   And the fact that there are people writing articles,

02:03:16   which size Apple TV should you get,

02:03:18   that shouldn't even be an issue.

02:03:21   - Yeah, I agree.

02:03:23   - I don't know.

02:03:24   I just looked at it.

02:03:25   I just pretend as though there's one new Apple TV

02:03:28   and it costs $200 and 64 gigs of RAM.

02:03:30   - Yeah.

02:03:32   I'm curious to know which one is their primary.

02:03:36   Not that they don't love all their kids equally, but you know what I mean?

02:03:41   Did they set out to make the 32 gig about what they wanted and throw in extra memory?

02:03:46   I guess, or maybe they really wanted to hit $150, and whatever the difference in the component

02:03:58   cost is at $150, the 64 gig just doesn't make Tim Cook happy financially.

02:04:06   So they did it.

02:04:07   I don't know.

02:04:08   But it just seems like it could have been an easier win.

02:04:11   I do kind of understand why they still sell the old Apple TV for 69 bucks.

02:04:19   Because I know that there are institutions like schools and stuff like that that use

02:04:23   Apple TV just as like a brain dead thing to do airplay to. So you know you don't

02:04:30   want you may not want that to spend an extra hundred bucks to get a awesome new

02:04:34   computer that does all these things because all you're doing is using it as

02:04:37   like an airplay terminal. And the difference is so it's massive right the

02:04:45   difference between the old third gen Apple TV and this new one is obvious to

02:04:50   anybody who might have any interest in buying one instantly.

02:04:53   Whereas the difference between a 32 and 64 gig version

02:04:56   of the same thing is not so obvious.

02:04:59   - Yeah.

02:05:01   - I'm also curious, I'm curious to see how it'll work.

02:05:05   Maybe, 'cause one thing that's definitely true,

02:05:07   and maybe that's the limit, you might know this,

02:05:08   that your initial download, I think,

02:05:10   has to be under 200 gigs, or 200 megs?

02:05:13   - It's 200 meg, and you get up to two gigs

02:05:16   with what they call on-demand resources.

02:05:18   app slices, right?

02:05:20   - Well, so app slicing is something different.

02:05:22   App slicing will get you,

02:05:24   app slicing means that you're not gonna be downloading

02:05:27   assets for your iPhone onto your TV, basically.

02:05:32   On demand resources means that,

02:05:34   let's say in a game you can tag levels,

02:05:38   and it'll only download the resources for that level.

02:05:42   Or you've got four levels on auth,

02:05:44   so all of the ice textures come down.

02:05:47   And then three levels on Tatooine, so you can get rid of the ice textures and load the sand textures.

02:05:53   You have up to two gigs of those available for your app.

02:05:59   Yeah, and obviously they're enforcing it. I mean, I guess if you submit a binary that's over 200 megs, it probably doesn't even go through.

02:06:09   Oh yeah, I don't know. They've been good about that since day one at the App Store where you couldn't, like,

02:06:17   they wouldn't let you download stuff over sale that was over, I think, 10 megs, originally? Something like that?

02:06:23   Yeah, I just sent you a link to something about that Manticore game I was talking about. You don't have to click it now.

02:06:27   For all I know, it's going to start some kind of autoplay video, but...

02:06:31   There we go. Oh, it looks nice.

02:06:35   And if you go to Apple TV or apple.com/tv and then go to games and more,

02:06:43   that's you know it's like the games and more section of the Apple TV site, they

02:06:49   have a big picture of SteelSeries Nimbus wireless controller. I mean it's

02:06:52   not you know obviously they're not putting one in the box, you're not

02:06:56   giving you one, but they're also not shying away from showing it off. I feel

02:07:02   I feel like this is the one thing that I just do not see how this is going to play out.

02:07:06   Either game controllers are going to be a big deal for Apple TV or they're going to be non-existent.

02:07:10   I don't know.

02:07:12   I think they probably just didn't get their act together yet on it.

02:07:14   I do think that the language that they originally had,

02:07:18   that they want to allow you to have a game controller, is what they wanted.

02:07:22   Right.

02:07:24   And then somebody panicked and said, "Wow, can we do this? We can't get the store to check for the presence of a controller.

02:07:30   the presence of a controller, we're going to get a bunch of people getting mad at us.

02:07:35   Well, maybe just sort of the product marketing thing that they don't want to make it seem as though

02:07:42   you need this thing that they're not even giving you.

02:07:46   Yeah, sure. Even that.

02:07:48   But something changed at the last minute.

02:07:51   And as progressive as Apple is in a lot of ways, in some ways, they can be a pretty conservative company.

02:07:57   in terms of promising something like that

02:07:59   or distracting you with a message like that.

02:08:02   They don't want to do it.

02:08:03   So I guess the thing would be like,

02:08:07   okay, take the lumps from the developers

02:08:09   for changing the thing at the last minute.

02:08:11   But at least we're not holding a time bomb here.

02:08:15   - I have one more sponsor to thank

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02:11:25   Any other apps that you've seen? How about our friend James Thompson has built the first

02:11:29   calculator. I think the slogan is the best calculator for your TV. True, right? And you

02:11:36   You know James. James is a great guy. As long term as just about anybody could be.

02:11:43   He's been writing. Peacock started like in the mid 90s, maybe even the early 90s for

02:11:48   the Mac. It has been around forever. I love that Peacock is there on day one on the Apple

02:11:55   TV App Store.

02:11:58   He was on the watch day one too.

02:12:02   Ways that I would have never foreseen the indie develop community evolving is like the idea that 20 years ago that James Thompson

02:12:10   James Thompson would be writing for the TV.

02:12:12   This was the first third party one I fired up to. I got a test flight for it and I was like, "Let's do this."

02:12:19   I love it. Do I foresee the need to do math on my television? No.

02:12:26   But of course I bought it and I'm glad it's there.

02:12:30   And it's actually really well done, of course.

02:12:34   He did a great job. I told him, "Man, I can't believe he got all those features in it."

02:12:38   It was a rough first start. It's a rough stab at it.

02:12:42   He was like, "Are you kidding? That is the world's most advanced television computer."

02:12:46   Alright, we were talking about typing

02:12:50   and you said that you can long press on a lowercase letter to have it pop up

02:12:54   be uppercase temporarily and that you could guess that so I made a guess with

02:12:58   pcalc that you could use the play button to be the equals key worked of course he

02:13:05   thought it was it works of course it works that's awesome

02:13:09   super smart what else is charging for it because he was debating on it was a buck

02:13:14   99 okay what do you think it should cost I told him nine ninety nine ninety nine

02:13:22   Wait, $999?

02:13:24   Yeah, just go for it.

02:13:26   I am Richard, just why not?

02:13:28   But no, that buck and ninety-nine is good.

02:13:32   I just want to hire a place to ask, basically, just because it's easier.

02:13:36   I mean, not easier, but it's...

02:13:38   It takes a lot of work to put these in. I don't know how many people are going to be buying apps.

02:13:44   Yeah, I'm curious to see...

02:13:46   That's a big question, and you know...

02:13:48   Because TV, game consoles have,

02:13:53   really it's one of the most well monetized,

02:13:56   maybe the best monetized form of media.

02:13:59   Whether it's gonna stay, who knows.

02:14:00   But flagship games cost 50 or 60 bucks.

02:14:04   I mean that's pretty standard.

02:14:06   And that's the most expensive media

02:14:08   that most people buy, right?

02:14:10   Books don't cost 60 bucks.

02:14:11   Movies, you never, movies are 15 bucks, or 20 at the most.

02:14:16   Games are the only thing that is monetized at levels of like $50 or $60.

02:14:21   Is that going to translate to Apple TV? I don't know about $50 or $60.

02:14:26   It seems like a lot of them are around $10, though. Beat Sports is $10.

02:14:31   That's good. That's what they started out on iOS, too, though.

02:14:36   Right. I remember. That's exactly what I thought. I remember when there were a lot of apps that were $9.99 on iOS.

02:14:41   iOS. Yeah, so we'll see. I'm super excited about this platform, more so than I was for

02:14:49   the watch. Now, that could just be a sign that I don't have the imagination enough to

02:14:55   figure out what I want to do with the watch, but as soon as they announced this TV, I had

02:14:59   like eight different ideas that I wanted to write for it. Do you share that?

02:15:07   I do too. I've never been super excited about the watch. I've been intrigued and I still

02:15:14   do wear mine but I don't wear it every day. I foresee a bright future for it but I just

02:15:21   don't think that Apple Watch was ever really squarely in the market for it. It's just not

02:15:28   the sort of thing that speaks to me overall.

02:15:32   - Yeah, fitness really.

02:15:34   (laughing)

02:15:36   - Right, like, you know, ultimately,

02:15:39   once I stop wearing it every day,

02:15:42   and there is this weird motivating thing

02:15:43   where you wanna keep filling these circles every day

02:15:45   and you get the streak going and you keep going

02:15:47   and I'm sure people are more fit,

02:15:48   but then once you stop wearing it every day

02:15:49   and so because you didn't wear it every day,

02:15:51   you definitely, by definition,

02:15:53   have days where you don't fill the circles.

02:15:55   It just means you don't care anymore.

02:15:57   (laughing)

02:15:58   - Yeah.

02:15:59   - I don't know.

02:16:00   It doesn't excite me that much.

02:16:01   I'd a bigger screen to me is more exciting

02:16:04   so yeah I'm super excited about this because it is

02:16:08   it's like a little iOS computer

02:16:10   hooked up to a giant shared experience

02:16:12   yeah there's a lot of stuff you could do with this

02:16:15   yeah and I'm really interested to see

02:16:18   like with the iPhone and to me it's the most exciting

02:16:22   since the iPhone because with the iPhone

02:16:26   starting in 2008 the next year when the App Store opened

02:16:29   and all of a sudden anybody could write apps.

02:16:32   You got apps that Apple never would have thought of.

02:16:36   And it took the platform in ways that nobody

02:16:40   could have foreseen.

02:16:41   And I think that's got to be inevitable with Apple TV.

02:16:46   And yes, I know that there's ways that you can develop,

02:16:49   and there's other devices that you can hook up to a TV.

02:16:53   You can just have a gaming PC hooked up to a TV.

02:16:56   and it's even easier or more open than an app store

02:17:01   because anybody can, you don't even need an app store

02:17:03   to get apps running on a thing.

02:17:05   But people don't do it,

02:17:06   and so it's not a big enough audience

02:17:09   to make it worthwhile.

02:17:10   Like I've never really heard of an app that somebody made.

02:17:12   The only thing I've ever heard that's worthwhile

02:17:14   with a gaming PC hooked up to a TV is playing games,

02:17:16   PC games.

02:17:17   I've never heard of anybody who did something

02:17:20   truly original.

02:17:20   Whereas I feel like with Apple TV,

02:17:22   now there's this platform where there's gonna be

02:17:24   millions of people who have them and who already know what apps are and already

02:17:29   have an App Store account and I'm really curious to see what people do with it.

02:17:32   Yeah, me too. Storehouse we didn't mention. Oh yeah, I have that and I... That looks

02:17:37   great. Yeah, so Storehouse, to me it's... I didn't spend a lot of time with it

02:17:46   but it really, it like breathes on TV in a way that,

02:17:51   it's a great example of what makes Storehouse, Storehouse.

02:17:57   Storehouse is you upload images in movies

02:18:01   and you can add text too and make like an article,

02:18:03   but it's not really like you're formatting a document.

02:18:06   It's more like a way to build like a photo

02:18:10   and video based slideshow, sort of?

02:18:14   It's hard to describe.

02:18:15   It's a story. It's a visual storytelling medium, basically.

02:18:19   But I feel like on Apple TV, it really...

02:18:23   it's sort of more like... okay, so you're not making

02:18:27   a video. It's not like you're just making one video that plays. But it is sort of a way

02:18:31   to turn your TV into like a... it's like a presentation.

02:18:35   And, you know, if the pictures are good and the video is

02:18:39   high quality, it's really, really gorgeous.

02:18:43   - Storehouse is popular with a lot of professional photographers, do you?

02:18:46   - Yeah. Yeah. So that's another one if you're out there, if you're just jotting down a list

02:18:50   of apps to try on your new Apple TV as you listen to it, definitely try out Storehouse.

02:18:55   Don't miss it. And it's a really great example to me. I'm so glad you mentioned it. It's

02:19:00   somewhere written here in my notes for the show, but I'm glad you mentioned it. Because

02:19:04   to me, it just sort of exemplifies the way that Apple TV is more than just a video box.

02:19:10   is something different and new and more interactive and it isn't just about video that you hit

02:19:18   play and pause. It can be something else.

02:19:20   Yeah, and I'm really excited to see what that something else is.

02:19:25   Yeah.

02:19:26   Man, you could put these in stores. I guess, you know, like when you've got a little sign

02:19:34   and you're saying what the, like a kiosk kind of situation.

02:19:39   This is awesome for that.

02:19:43   There's so many different ways to use this little computer

02:19:47   that it's pretty crazy.

02:19:49   Cheap too, it's like the cheapest iOS device.

02:19:53   - Yeah, it totally is, I don't know.

02:19:55   So wrapping up, looking at my notes, here's the other thing.

02:19:58   So I asked Jonas what he thought of the graphics

02:19:59   and we didn't look at all the games.

02:20:01   I mean, but we looked at enough.

02:20:03   Jonas's estimation was that to him it looked, it's clearly not as good as PS4, but he thought

02:20:09   it was better than PS3.

02:20:11   So he pegged it, he pegged the graphic fidelity of the games as in between PS4 and PS3.

02:20:19   That's why I wanted to ask you, because that's just Jonas eyeballing it, right?

02:20:23   And looking at frame rates and how much texture and how rich it is.

02:20:29   What do you think about that as being someone who's sort of actually, you know, like...

02:20:32   I think that that's probably a fair estimation. I'd say that they're about equal with the previous generation of consoles.

02:20:37   Now, I can't remember all of the exact specs.

02:20:45   I don't know, maybe they get outperformed in some way.

02:20:50   But what you see on the screen is what counts, right?

02:20:52   So he feels good about it.

02:20:55   He feels good about it.

02:20:56   More interesting, next year, this is going to get faster.

02:20:57   There's going to be a better one.

02:20:58   - Right.

02:20:58   - And the year after that, there's gonna be

02:20:59   an even better one.

02:21:01   And the year after that, things are gonna start

02:21:04   looking bad for consoles.

02:21:05   - Yeah, do you think--

02:21:06   - 'Cause they have like a five to seven year life cycle.

02:21:09   - Do you think that they will, at this point,

02:21:11   Apple TV gets on the annual upgrade cycle?

02:21:15   - I'd probably guess every two years, if I had to guess.

02:21:19   - I do wonder.

02:21:20   It's almost because it's like, and right now,

02:21:23   it's on the A8 or A8X, but it's definitely

02:21:28   So it's last year's top of the line Apple system on a chip.

02:21:33   It seems as though one year later,

02:21:36   they can make those chips like,

02:21:38   they're just like cooking popcorn.

02:21:40   I mean, they just, you know, I wouldn't be surprised

02:21:43   that they just pop in a year old A series system on a chip

02:21:48   every year and that it's not, it's almost,

02:21:52   it's so little work for Apple that it,

02:21:54   it would be foolish not to.

02:21:57   Maybe. To me, it would only just come down to what's the disposition of the team and where they spend their time on.

02:22:06   I might be overlooking the financial gains to be had by selling it for two years.

02:22:14   However profitable this thing is at 149 right now, a year from now, the exact same device with a two-year-old A8 is even more.

02:22:22   But I don't know. Because I just feel like the nerd in me just screams for, "I want the A9 that's in my iPhone 6s. I want it on my Apple TV next year."

02:22:33   Yeah, I think it's a gimme. I mean, not necessarily next year, but obviously.

02:22:37   Once you've got this baseline architecture now, they can start iterating it pretty quickly.

02:22:44   How quickly they iterate is, I think, going to depend on business stuff.

02:22:47   Because they may also not want to have a new TV every year.

02:22:54   You know what I mean?

02:22:55   The stuffs become negative implications.

02:22:57   Every year I've got to go out and buy all my new Apple kit again.

02:23:00   The iPad, I think, they kind of got trapped into doing it yearly

02:23:08   when I think that they could have maybe stretched that out a little bit.

02:23:11   Yeah, and they kind of, well, they haven't really, but they've done it sometimes.

02:23:16   done it sometimes. Like for example, they didn't come out with a new iPad Air 2 this

02:23:19   year. Whether that's just because they're going to wait until early next year or whether

02:23:24   we have to wait a full year remains to be seen. And I've heard both ways. Maybe there

02:23:31   will be an iPad Air 3 early next year, like on the old iPad schedule with a keyboard case

02:23:38   sort of like the iPad Pro. I don't know, maybe not. But anyway, it's clearly a little different

02:23:44   there. But on the other hand it would emphasize the differences that Apple has versus the traditional

02:23:53   consoles and I know they're not going head-to-head against PS4 and Xbox and people who are really

02:23:58   serious about games like as intrigued as Jonas is by the new Apple TV and he's I think he's

02:24:03   downstairs playing games on it right now if I told him we're getting rid of our PS4 he'd you know he'd

02:24:08   - Yeah, disowned you. - Call a lawyer.

02:24:10   - Call a lawyer.

02:24:11   (laughing)

02:24:13   - I need to get a divorce from my dad.

02:24:15   - Ouch.

02:24:16   - Like that would not fly.

02:24:19   - Yeah.

02:24:20   But you know, I have a lot of excitement for the platform

02:24:25   and where it's gonna end up going.

02:24:28   Because this is a super capable little computer.

02:24:31   - Yeah.

02:24:33   Well, and the other thing too,

02:24:33   you alluded to this a couple minutes ago,

02:24:35   where if you project forward three or four years,

02:24:38   They are going to surpass.

02:24:39   They're going to make a little Apple TV puck that is more powerful than a Sony Playstation.

02:24:44   Whether it's still the PS, they're going to catch the consoles.

02:24:47   They're going to catch it up.

02:24:49   Have you seen the graph?

02:24:50   I know you have, but the performance graph is bananas.

02:24:53   They're going to catch them pretty soon.

02:24:56   So that's bad news for the console guys.

02:24:58   Right.

02:24:59   There's only one step forward on pixels, and that's going to 4K.

02:25:04   And after that, the pixels don't change.

02:25:07   So the graphics capabilities that they can do every year after year,

02:25:11   they don't have to worry about driving bigger displays. It's, you know,

02:25:14   it's all just raw speed. It's just raw speed. Uh,

02:25:18   I guess that's the last thing. If there's anything else is,

02:25:20   do you think it's a mistake that this, this Apple TV doesn't support 4k?

02:25:24   No, I don't think 4k is a gimmick. I think at this point it is.

02:25:29   Sorry. Yeah. Unpack that. I mean, no, it's not a gimmick obviously,

02:25:33   but right now I think it's a,

02:25:34   I think it's one of those high-end features that some people want and clamor for and say

02:25:39   that they demand, but the actual market doesn't require it yet.

02:25:44   Dave: Yeah.

02:25:46   Too few actual 4K TVs in use, way too little video that's encoded in 4K out there.

02:25:54   Obviously, it's going to happen eventually.

02:25:57   At some point between now and 10 years from now, we're all going to have 4K TVs and everything

02:26:00   we stream will be 4K, but I don't think there's any reason for it now.

02:26:04   My only thought though is that it kind of makes me think that they might be on an annual schedule than a bi-annual schedule,

02:26:11   just because at some point there's going to be one of these that does 4K.

02:26:15   But then again, that could just be two years from now.

02:26:17   Yeah. Right? I don't know. Because then it would be a big leap.

02:26:22   Like, two years worth of development on their chips plus 4K, that's worth another $150, $200.

02:26:32   Right. And maybe a Taptic Engine remote. That's our Apple TV from 2017. Now I'm already bored with this Apple TV. Terrible.

02:26:47   Well, we should say I think it's because we're excited about it. We're already looking forward to what the future holds.

02:26:53   Usually I just let these, you know,

02:26:54   we'd go on for another hour,

02:26:56   but I'm so excited by it.

02:26:58   And I know that there's people out there

02:27:01   laughing at me and you with our personalities

02:27:04   and our voices talking about how excited we are.

02:27:07   Because it's one thing that you and I are very similar with

02:27:11   is that when we get excited about something,

02:27:13   we don't really show excitement

02:27:17   in the way that normal human beings show excitement.

02:27:21   Unless I'm on a heater at a blackjack table or something, I really don't get too exuberant.

02:27:27   But I really am. I'm actually sitting here thinking, I really want to wrap this up and go downstairs and go back to playing with my Apple TV.

02:27:36   Which is actually a really cool feeling.

02:27:40   Anything else going on, Guy? Anything you want to promote before we wrap it up?

02:27:45   Well, there's a lot of stuff going on, but I mean, they talk to other people about that.

02:27:50   Like, the Apple earnings came in, those bananas. Chrome and Android are getting merged together.

02:27:55   It's kind of interesting.

02:28:00   Is that new? I didn't see that.

02:28:02   Yeah, as of yesterday. He was too busy playing your Apple TV to figure that out.

02:28:03   I totally missed it.

02:28:07   Yeah, they're getting smacked into one thing. But it's whatever. Deal with that some other time.

02:28:10   Other than that, no. Go buy my app, Napkin, in the Mac App Store.

02:28:14   Napkin. And what's the domain for that?

02:28:17   N-A-P-dot-K-N.

02:28:19   Oh, man. That's smart. N-A-P-dot-K-N.

02:28:22   Great app, Napkin.

02:28:24   And your Twitter is @GTE, right?

02:28:29   Yeah.

02:28:30   Do you get a lot of spam in your ads just because you have a three-letter code?

02:28:34   A fair amount, but not that much.

02:28:37   Yeah, it seems like the one people have trouble is people who have like a name like a three-letter name like I don't know

02:28:43   I don't know who it is

02:28:44   But if you had like Sam at Sam like you end up with a lot of junk in there

02:28:48   But GTE is sort of random that it wouldn't happen by accident

02:28:52   Not that none as often here. All right. Well, thank you guy. I appreciate the time

02:28:57   There's a lot of you. It was a blast. All right, I'm gonna go play with my Apple TV