The Talk Show

130: ‘A Full Canseco’ With Guest John Moltz


00:00:00   friend of the show Paul Kofasas texted me earlier today with an interesting

00:00:05   question and he said if you heard somebody say that an outfielder went

00:00:10   quote full canseco on a ball what does that mean to you I'm not sure I know I I

00:00:20   like the the thought experiment though I got it because I can never forget this

00:00:27   play. It was a play when when Jose Canseco was on the Texas Rangers. He was

00:00:33   playing right field and there was like a what should have been a routine fly ball

00:00:38   out of the warning track. He lost it and it hit him on the head and bounced over

00:00:43   for a home run. It's it I will that seems impossible. I will I will put put the I

00:00:52   I will put the link in the show notes.

00:00:54   I swear to God.

00:00:56   I will send it to you now.

00:00:57   But it does sound impossible, but it did happen.

00:01:02   And I think you could probably,

00:01:05   if you had the right math degree,

00:01:06   you could probably prove mathematically

00:01:08   that it could only have happened to Jose Canseco.

00:01:11   (laughing)

00:01:13   - But that seems right.

00:01:15   Yeah, you know, that's the second thing on YouTube,

00:01:18   the second search criteria for Jose Canseco.

00:01:22   The first is just Jose Canseco and the second is Jose Canseco ball hits head.

00:01:27   Wait, what the heck is that?

00:01:33   I got the audio from your video so.

00:01:38   I don't want to.

00:01:39   Yeah, did what?

00:01:40   No, this is great.

00:01:41   I'm listening.

00:01:42   That was the ad.

00:01:44   Here he goes.

00:01:47   Here he goes.

00:01:48   He's going back.

00:01:49   He's going back thong.

00:01:50   (laughing)

00:01:52   - You'd think you'd have to try to do that.

00:01:58   - No, or that you'd have to try to do it on purpose.

00:02:01   - Right, I mean, I'm not even sure

00:02:02   if you could do it on purpose.

00:02:03   - Right, so what happened was yesterday,

00:02:07   yeah, I guess it was yesterday,

00:02:09   Toronto Blue Jays left fielder Ben Revere

00:02:12   was trying to catch a fly ball

00:02:14   hit by the Orioles' Matt Wieters,

00:02:16   and it was gonna hit the wall about a foot short

00:02:20   and he jumped up to catch it and it hit his glove

00:02:25   and went over for a home run.

00:02:27   So it would not have been a home run.

00:02:29   It would have been about a foot short

00:02:31   and instead was 'cause he tried to catch it

00:02:33   and hit his glove.

00:02:34   To me, that's not a full canseco.

00:02:36   That to me is like a half canseco.

00:02:38   Like it's gotta hit your head.

00:02:39   - No, right, it's gotta hit your head.

00:02:40   - Gotta hit your head.

00:02:41   - Or some other butt.

00:02:42   I mean, you know, I'm not sure if there's anything else

00:02:44   comical than the head that would actually work. I think you're debasing the beauty of that play

00:02:50   by calling it a kantseka. A full... yeah, yeah. That's a half at best.

00:02:59   That's a half a kantseka. That should be the official scoring, actually.

00:03:04   The other link that came up when I went to Google it, when you type in Jose kantseka,

00:03:10   And that is a fun. It's a very fun game. What auto completes the other one that came out was Jose Canseco

00:03:16   Knocked out and when that when that auto completed I thought I was like, holy cow

00:03:22   So I misremembered the play I was like, I don't remember him getting knocked out on that play

00:03:26   I thought that it just went over and you know, he was okay turns out it's a different video

00:03:30   He was in a celebrity boxing match

00:03:33   And got knocked out in the first round

00:03:38   naturally yeah, actually he was

00:03:40   Who is he fighting by sicahima former Philadelphia Eagles

00:03:47   I

00:03:49   Think he was like a safety and like a kick returner and is now in fact a beloved local

00:03:55   sportscaster here and here in Philly by sicahima

00:03:59   Believe he's Hawaiian

00:04:03   Yeah, beloved for having having knocked out Jose Canseco.

00:04:07   Exactly.

00:04:09   I guess he, I guess Canseco used to play at

00:04:16   for the local, for our local team here for the Rainiers.

00:04:20   Actually, because he was, he was in the A's, right?

00:04:23   Yeah, yeah.

00:04:24   Yeah, yeah, because it used to be the Rainiers used to be an A's farm team before they became a Mariners farm team.

00:04:30   and so I remember going to a game one night and

00:04:33   I'm pretty sure I get wigged like the gift the thing you know

00:04:37   If you get first 100 people or whatever was a hook it Jose can say go bubble head doll

00:04:41   That's a good name for a local team named after your yeah, cool mountaintop mount Rainier. Yeah, unless they rename the mountain

00:04:50   Yeah, well that happens nowadays, right? That's right. Yeah, which I think they should but yeah, that's okay

00:04:58   What a funny story that is I I'm guessing those people have heard this but it's

00:05:01   It's there was that there's a mountain in Alaska and that everybody in Alaska calls it Denali and it's the like the indigenous

00:05:10   Name that you know, they've been calling it that since you know, I don't know hundreds of years or whatever and then

00:05:17   At some point hundred years ago

00:05:20   Some point a white man shows up a white man shows up and they named it Mount McKinley after president McKinley

00:05:27   who quite frankly was not a very good president. And in fact, this is the part I did not know,

00:05:32   had never even stepped foot in Alaska. And so president—

00:05:37   Well, it was a long way to go back then.

00:05:39   President Barack Obama renamed it to Denali.

00:05:46   To what it was originally named.

00:05:48   Right. And it's such a weird story because so much in US politics is just knee jerk,

00:05:54   left-right, Republican, Democrat, you know, anything, you know, Obama, you know, orders a hamburger

00:06:00   and Republicans complain that he didn't get a cheeseburger. And instead though, this is very

00:06:08   strange, everybody in Alaska, whether they're Republican or Democrat, is very happy about this

00:06:13   because it's apparently been like a sticking point for a long time because, you know, they don't like

00:06:17   it. And people in Ohio, which is the home state of President McKinley, are very, very upset.

00:06:23   Too bad.

00:06:28   Name one of your little mountains in Ohio, Mount McKinley, right?

00:06:30   Now the name's freedom.

00:06:31   Yeah, exactly.

00:06:32   Yeah.

00:06:33   McKinley Hill.

00:06:34   Yeah.

00:06:35   So, the Rainier is actually, I believe, Tahoma in whatever the...

00:06:45   I'm not sure which native language it is or if it's all of them, if they all called it

00:06:49   the same thing.

00:06:51   So basically the same name as Tacoma Rylo.

00:06:55   I did not know that.

00:06:56   Yeah.

00:06:57   There you go.

00:06:58   So they should change that.

00:06:59   And then the team could be the Tacoma Tahomas.

00:07:02   Oh my god, that would be great.

00:07:06   That would be a good way to get on SportsCenter on a regular basis.

00:07:09   Right.

00:07:10   They're not getting the way they're playing right now.

00:07:13   Actually, I don't know how well the Rainiers are doing,

00:07:15   but their parent team is not doing that well.

00:07:18   I tried to explain to Jonas the other day

00:07:20   about, you remember Dick Trickle?

00:07:22   - I forgot the name.

00:07:25   - He was a NASCAR driver.

00:07:26   He was like a mediocre NASCAR driver.

00:07:30   Did not have a great win record or anything like that.

00:07:34   But in the late 90s when Keith Olbermann

00:07:38   and Dan Patrick were doing Sports Center,

00:07:42   I guess it was like the middle 90s,

00:07:43   and every night at 11 o'clock,

00:07:45   those two guys who went on,

00:07:46   they're two of the top sportscasters in the country now.

00:07:50   whenever they reported NASCAR results,

00:07:52   they would say, "Who came in first?

00:07:53   "Who came in second?

00:07:54   "And where did Dick Trickle finish?"

00:07:56   So it'd be like, so-and-so came in first,

00:08:00   so-and-so was second, and Dick Trickle finished 28th.

00:08:04   And it was every single week, it was so great.

00:08:08   And they never, of course, they never said why.

00:08:11   And I really had to, Jonas did not believe me.

00:08:15   We really had to Google the guy

00:08:17   and look up his Wikipedia.

00:08:18   And you can even find, if you Google him,

00:08:22   references to the fact that he was

00:08:24   always mentioned on SportsCenter.

00:08:26   - Oh my God.

00:08:26   - So that, you need a catchy name like that.

00:08:29   If you're not gonna win,

00:08:31   if you're only a minor league franchise,

00:08:33   you need a good name like that.

00:08:34   To come--

00:08:35   - And that would have been a good baseball name too.

00:08:37   - Yeah, yeah, Dick Trickle, oh yeah,

00:08:39   he should have put in a baseball player.

00:08:40   - Right, would have been, maybe that was it,

00:08:42   maybe that was he missed his calling.

00:08:43   - Yeah, would have been like a relief pitcher,

00:08:46   like Raleigh Fingers, right?

00:08:48   (laughing)

00:08:50   Late innings.

00:08:51   - Late innings, Dick Trickle.

00:08:53   - In comes Dick Trickle.

00:08:54   (laughing)

00:08:56   Dick Trickle warming up in the bullpen.

00:08:59   - Thank God we have nothing real to talk about.

00:09:01   - No, no.

00:09:01   Where do you wanna start?

00:09:05   - Let's just get the Google logo thing out of the way.

00:09:10   - Okay.

00:09:10   - This is why I brought in noted graphic designer, John Holds.

00:09:14   - I was kind of wondering why I was being brought on.

00:09:18   But please continue.

00:09:20   Probably 'cause you wanted somebody who knew less than you,

00:09:22   and I knew much less than you.

00:09:26   - Here's the, so Google changed their logo last week,

00:09:33   and I, rather than write, I should, I'm going to write.

00:09:37   Sometime, maybe it'll be when I get on the airplane,

00:09:39   but at some point I've gotta write a longer piece,

00:09:41   and I have a whole bunch of links saved up

00:09:43   'cause other people are writing about it.

00:09:45   But my take on it--

00:09:48   Read your take.

00:09:50   I went short and sweet.

00:09:52   And I said, they're all--

00:09:55   wait, I better--

00:09:56   I was going to do it from memory.

00:09:57   It's pretty short, but I better--

00:09:59   let's see.

00:10:00   I'll just search my home page for garbage.

00:10:02   There it is.

00:10:03   Their old logo was goofy.

00:10:05   This new one is simply garbage, just right

00:10:08   for a company with no taste.

00:10:10   I don't know.

00:10:11   That's harsh.

00:10:12   But I meant--

00:10:13   I truly mean every word of that.

00:10:14   I really do.

00:10:15   I think it is a garbage logo.

00:10:17   I really do.

00:10:18   I think it is terrible.

00:10:19   And when there's two,

00:10:21   there's two new things, right?

00:10:22   There's a new.

00:10:23   The name is written differently.

00:10:25   Yes, and then they also have a logo

00:10:27   which they didn't have before.

00:10:28   Am I right about that?

00:10:29   What would the what is the logo supposed to be

00:10:32   like the circle things?

00:10:34   Yeah, so there's like a circle.

00:10:36   Yeah, I mean so actually

00:10:37   and the if you look in the what is it?

00:10:40   What's that little thing up in the URL line?

00:10:44   Favicon yeah the favicon right?

00:10:46   Yeah, so well, I'm not sure what was up there before it was.

00:10:51   I thought it was a G.

00:10:51   It was a lowercase G.

00:10:53   I I see a G now I see a capital G.

00:10:56   Yeah, but you see something great.

00:10:58   It's got the colors.

00:10:59   It's got the colors of the Chrome icon.

00:11:02   Yeah, basically.

00:11:03   Although actually no, it's got bullet

00:11:05   'cause the Chrome icon has blue in the middle.

00:11:07   This one has it on the outside, so I thought it was just the Chrome icon

00:11:10   in the shape of a G, but it's not right.

00:11:13   The only thing I would clarify about my I will write more but if I could if I could take my little short take again, I would the only thing I would add is that when I say their old logo was goofy, I that I realized that's an incomplete thought because it was goofy.

00:11:26   But over the years, they had simplified it to a point where it was right. It was goofy, but goofy in the way that Google is goofy. And I mean, goofy like that they're sort of a quirky.

00:11:37   Odd, you know, that's part of their brand right like do you this is my favorite moment in Google history

00:11:43   And I mean this in total sincerity whatever year it was when Gmail was announced. They announced it on April 1st and

00:11:50   And at the time like if you went to like AOL

00:11:56   Comm and signed up for a free email or Yahoo everybody

00:12:00   I guess Yahoo and Hotmail were like the two that were most popular

00:12:03   you've got the new you know, you free email account and

00:12:06   Like you got like 10 megabytes of storage or 15 megabytes of storage or something like that

00:12:12   And then on April 1st of like whatever year it was

00:12:15   2006 2007 whatever

00:12:17   Google announced that they have a new free email service called Gmail and you get like a gigabyte of storage. It was like

00:12:24   50 times the storage of

00:12:26   These other services and it was April 1st, which is internet jackass day

00:12:31   And so I remember thinking like I I think and I think this might be true

00:12:36   I think it's true that I've never once been taken in by an internet jackass day hoax

00:12:42   I think and if not if I have been taken in it hasn't been bad

00:12:48   Like I've never once you know and I do know it's a point of pride for me that I've never once been full

00:12:53   I remember like thinking like this is this is dastardly

00:12:57   "I can't tell whether this is real or a joke,

00:13:00   "and I didn't know what to do,

00:13:01   "I didn't know whether I should link to it,

00:13:03   "I didn't know whether I should link to it and just say,

00:13:05   "I don't know if this is a joke or not,

00:13:08   "because it just seemed impossible.

00:13:09   "How could they give everybody a gigabyte of storage?"

00:13:12   And it turned out it was completely true.

00:13:14   But I love that story, and I think that they did it.

00:13:17   I've never heard whether it's true or not,

00:13:19   but I think that's why they announced it on April 1st,

00:13:21   'cause I think they knew that it would have that reaction.

00:13:24   That part of the reaction to the announcement of Gmail

00:13:27   was the, are they kidding?

00:13:28   Is this for real?

00:13:30   - Well, and that's the best thing to do on April 1st, right?

00:13:34   Because everybody's so sick of April 1st

00:13:37   being full of these dumb, Microsoft buys so-and-so.

00:13:42   And the real trick is to do the opposite, right?

00:13:49   I mean, the better gag is to do the exact opposite,

00:13:51   announce something that's completely true

00:13:53   that seems like it's probably not.

00:13:55   And to me, it just epitomizes what is great and fun

00:13:59   about Google, that they can do,

00:14:00   they have amazing technology, they have,

00:14:04   they think big, right?

00:14:06   Instead of thinking like, let's double Yahoo's storage,

00:14:10   they were like, let's give 100 times.

00:14:12   Yeah, 100 times.

00:14:13   They think big, they're not afraid,

00:14:18   they have that sort of ambition in the imagination,

00:14:21   and they have this weird sense of humor

00:14:23   where I wouldn't have put it past them

00:14:25   to do it as a joke.

00:14:27   And they do, they are a company that does

00:14:29   do jokes on April 1st.

00:14:31   Like Apple, for example, never does April 1st jokes.

00:14:34   And shouldn't, it would be terrible.

00:14:39   But it, you know, I hate all--

00:14:41   - They're not that good at jokes.

00:14:43   They should probably not try that.

00:14:45   - Right, I don't think Google's jokes are that good either,

00:14:47   but they do them.

00:14:49   But it's right for Google's brand that they do them.

00:14:54   And the fact that I don't really care for those jokes is just one of those reasons why

00:14:56   I just am more of an Apple person than a Google person.

00:14:59   But anyway, all of that is to say is that where their logo was before, like up until

00:15:05   last week, was to me, it was goofy, but goofy in the right way.

00:15:11   And it looked, you know, it had like a certain stateliness to it.

00:15:14   And the fact that it was this sort of weird old timey serif font that nobody really uses

00:15:20   anymore. It was just like a weird quirk, but it was instantly recognizable. And, you know,

00:15:29   all in a good way. And I think that it was, it just had the right tone. It was their old

00:15:35   logo. So calling it goofy and leaving it at that makes it sound like I was putting their

00:15:38   old logo down too. What I meant is that their old logo was goofy appropriately. And, you

00:15:45   And so you can criticize it in and of itself as a logo.

00:15:49   And a lot of the people who have written pieces

00:15:51   supporting the new logo, they're correct in all the ways

00:15:54   that their old logo was kind of weird.

00:15:56   In and of itself wasn't good.

00:15:59   But I think it was really good for Google.

00:16:02   And this new one, to me, it's so childish looking.

00:16:07   It's ridiculous.

00:16:09   It's absolutely ridiculous.

00:16:12   You think it's, how do you think it's childish?

00:16:16   'Cause it looks like those letters

00:16:18   that you put on refrigerators.

00:16:19   - Yeah, it just, to me, the tone of these shapes of letters,

00:16:23   the complete geometric roundness of these letters,

00:16:28   and the best letter to look at, to me, is the lowercase g,

00:16:33   which is really, really, to me,

00:16:34   like a kindergarten-looking lowercase g,

00:16:37   like the type of g you would put up in front of a kid

00:16:40   learning to write for the first time.

00:16:42   I mean, the O's are just perfect circles,

00:16:45   so it's hard to complain about them.

00:16:46   But just the G is really where it stands out

00:16:50   as very, very childish looking.

00:16:53   And I don't think that's good at all.

00:16:55   I mean, other people have pointed out

00:16:57   that it's extremely similar to the four-colored G logo

00:17:02   that they have now, uppercase G.

00:17:04   It's very, very similar to a logo

00:17:06   that Jim Bury had used for a decade.

00:17:09   I saw that.

00:17:10   - And I don't think it's a problem

00:17:12   in that they rip them off.

00:17:13   It's not, you know, there's only so many ways

00:17:15   to do primary colors, which already was part

00:17:18   of Google's brand.

00:17:19   You know, the blue, red, yellow, green.

00:17:22   If you're gonna stick to these primary,

00:17:25   like, you know, right out of the eight color Crayola box,

00:17:29   look, and do a uppercase G,

00:17:33   there's only so many ways to do it.

00:17:34   So I wouldn't call it a ripoff,

00:17:36   but the fact that it is so similar in tone

00:17:38   to a logo for a romper room for three-year-olds,

00:17:43   it really, really says to me how childish it is as a brand.

00:17:48   I really liked, for example, with their old logo,

00:17:53   I liked the way that when they made icons,

00:17:55   like for example, like when they put the logo

00:17:59   on the Google Maps icon or their old favicon,

00:18:03   that instead of using the first G, the uppercase G,

00:18:06   they used the middle G, the lowercase one,

00:18:09   and you knew that that was Google's G.

00:18:12   It's like Google owned that lowercase G.

00:18:15   And I thought that was a really cool way,

00:18:17   and I thought it was very, very apt for their brand

00:18:21   and the sort of tone of their company.

00:18:23   Whereas now, they're stuck with this uppercase G,

00:18:25   and it's very generic looking.

00:18:28   Generically childish.

00:18:29   - Part of the other part of your argument,

00:18:35   The last part of your argument though,

00:18:36   a company with no taste.

00:18:39   - Yeah.

00:18:40   - I think that's probably what most people got hung up on.

00:18:44   - Well, I don't-- - On your--

00:18:48   - They don't have taste though.

00:18:50   I really, I firmly believe it.

00:18:51   And there are, here's the, I guess the part

00:18:54   that gets lost in there is there are pockets within Google

00:18:57   where there are good designers working

00:19:00   and obviously have taste because there are some products

00:19:03   that they put out that are nicely designed.

00:19:06   But institutionally, they have no taste at all

00:19:10   because some of their products are just horrendous.

00:19:15   For example, I think Gmail just looks like garbage,

00:19:19   and it always has, and I could never,

00:19:21   I know probably a majority of the people listening

00:19:24   to this show probably use Gmail.

00:19:26   And if not a majority, certainly a huge chunk use it,

00:19:31   and they use it right out of the web browser,

00:19:34   that's how they do their email.

00:19:36   I don't think anybody does that

00:19:38   because they like the way it looks,

00:19:40   they just like the way that it works.

00:19:43   It looks terrible, it's just a jumbled ugly mess.

00:19:47   And it's like one of their flagship products.

00:19:50   I would say it's second only to web search.

00:19:54   - I guess I don't find their taste any worse

00:19:58   than anybody else's particularly,

00:20:00   than with the possible exception of apple i mean obviously we we prefer apple so we're going to

00:20:05   come down on the side that apple has better taste but i mean i think that i i mean i would say that

00:20:10   that's probably not uh too much of an argument i mean apple is kind of the reverse right they they

00:20:16   occasionally they do have things that show poor taste um often in their comments as opposed to

00:20:23   their design, but by and large, it's the opposite case for them. But the thing about Google,

00:20:31   I just don't think that their taste is really any worse than Microsoft's or anybody else's.

00:20:35   Dave Asprey I don't think Microsoft has good taste either.

00:20:37   Tim Cynova Yeah.

00:20:37   Dave Asprey Although they have been, I think they've evolved

00:20:40   better taste than Google. I think Microsoft has-

00:20:44   Tim Cynova You think?

00:20:44   Dave Asprey Yeah, I think in recent years-

00:20:46   Tim Cynova I think maybe they're showing it

00:20:47   in the last few years.

00:20:49   - I would even say just look at their logo redesigns.

00:20:53   I think that Microsoft redesigned their logo

00:20:55   within the last few years too,

00:20:56   and I think for the better.

00:20:58   I think that they've gotten to a mark now

00:21:01   that they can stick with forever.

00:21:04   And I don't think it's great.

00:21:08   There's nothing really that I would rave

00:21:09   about Microsoft's current logo,

00:21:12   but it was better than what they had before,

00:21:15   and it seems to fit their brand to me.

00:21:19   And so that to me is a sign of taste.

00:21:23   I mean one of the reactions I've gotten from people

00:21:24   on Twitter, and I almost can't believe

00:21:26   that they exist in a world, I know there's people

00:21:29   who don't care about logos, really,

00:21:31   and think that they don't matter or whatever,

00:21:32   but why would those people follow me on Twitter?

00:21:35   Like I've met people who have said,

00:21:36   dude, it's just a logo.

00:21:38   - To get angry, I think.

00:21:39   - Right, to me that's like saying,

00:21:41   who cares what font you pick?

00:21:43   It's like, I don't know.

00:21:45   Like in the apartment building that is my mind,

00:21:50   love of typography and love of care about logos

00:21:53   share a bedroom.

00:21:55   (laughing)

00:21:58   It's to me, it's the same part of my brain.

00:22:00   The same part of my brain lights up when I think about fonts

00:22:04   as when I think about logos and branding.

00:22:06   It's exactly the same part of my brain.

00:22:08   And in some cases, it's married together

00:22:12   because in this case, what I really don't like

00:22:14   Google's logo is the type of the, the, you know, the word mark that they're using.

00:22:19   Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't like it either, but this always happens to me. It's like, I,

00:22:24   I end up, these things get announced and a whole bunch of people lose their shit over it.

00:22:29   And I look at it and I think often I, I will, I will end up one way or the other, like saying,

00:22:37   Oh, I like it. And then someone will write a very thoughtful post on why I shouldn't like it. And

00:22:41   and they'll think, oh yeah, OK, I can see that or the other way around.

00:22:44   So I don't feel like I'm

00:22:47   I feel lost in this in this world, but I did not.

00:22:50   I did not like it on first glance, on first glance.

00:22:53   And also, I mean, I kind of understood why they did it,

00:22:55   because they've reorganized.

00:22:58   But I also but at the same time, I still don't get.

00:23:01   I think the I think that companies tend to do that too much.

00:23:05   And often it's a bad impulse to rush out and redesign your

00:23:10   your logo to reflect some sort of business reason that your customers really probably don't give a

00:23:18   crap about. Yeah, that's a very interesting point and now that you've said it, I have been thinking

00:23:24   that like in the back of my head, I think you're exactly right that it's inextricably tied to this

00:23:29   alphabet parent company and honestly and I know I do care deeply about logos and I really do,

00:23:38   I do think that they matter,

00:23:42   or at least they can matter tremendously.

00:23:44   Like I think, for example, the Apple logo is,

00:23:48   you can't put a value on it.

00:23:52   It is incredibly valuable to the company,

00:23:55   and it's so meaningful to me that they can

00:23:58   have these retail stores that don't even say

00:24:00   the name of the store.

00:24:01   They've never put the name of the store anywhere.

00:24:04   They just put this mark out in front,

00:24:06   and everybody knows what it is.

00:24:08   And they can make laptops that have this mark when they're opened up and you can just see

00:24:15   that, you know, when you go into a coffee shop that everybody is using one of their

00:24:20   laptops and it's incredibly valuable.

00:24:25   Technically not their first logo.

00:24:27   No, well, no, not officially.

00:24:29   There's the old...

00:24:31   Newton's sitting under a tree, right?

00:24:35   Which was a terrible logo.

00:24:36   It was a very nice drawing.

00:24:38   - Doesn't really catch the eye though.

00:24:42   - I'll put it in the show notes.

00:24:44   I bet most people listening have seen it,

00:24:45   but if you haven't, you'll be shocked

00:24:48   at the first Apple Computer Company logo.

00:24:52   Very well drawn, it was very nice,

00:24:54   but it is a terrible logo.

00:24:56   Yeah, but that's interesting.

00:25:00   I do think that their changing logo

00:25:02   is inextricably tied to this sort of corporate reshuffling.

00:25:05   And honestly, and not to read too much into it.

00:25:07   So all this said that I care about logo and that they matter,

00:25:10   I actually do think that it is a sign.

00:25:13   I can't articulate it logically, it's a feeling,

00:25:17   but I just feel it, that it's a very bad sign for Google.

00:25:21   Like to me, it's a sign that they've lost their way.

00:25:23   And that, you know, I don't have money in Google,

00:25:28   I don't have any money in any individual companies,

00:25:30   but if I did, I would think very, very seriously

00:25:33   about selling my Google stock that I don't know.

00:25:36   I think they might be in for some bad times ahead.

00:25:39   And it's not just the logo, it's everything.

00:25:41   It's like the fact that Larry and Sergey,

00:25:46   I think that's how you're supposed to pronounce it.

00:25:48   I've been called on pronouncing it a different way,

00:25:50   but I got some emails telling me.

00:25:52   - Oh, that's a hard G?

00:25:53   - Sergey, Sergey.

00:25:55   - Okay, I didn't know that either.

00:26:00   They've seemingly, I've been thinking about this alphabet

00:26:04   reshuffling and to me as I think about it,

00:26:05   I think what it really means is that those two guys

00:26:08   who could do whatever they want,

00:26:09   'cause A, they're filthy rich,

00:26:11   B, the ingenious way that they've structured

00:26:14   the stock for the company,

00:26:15   they can do whatever they want with the company.

00:26:17   They don't have to answer to anybody, which is great.

00:26:19   I've always thought Steve Jobs must have looked

00:26:23   at the way they set that up and thought,

00:26:25   goddamn, I wish I'd done something like that.

00:26:27   that they've lost interest,

00:26:32   they've lost interest in what Google as we know it is.

00:26:36   And that they just, they wanna do other things.

00:26:40   To me, that for Google,

00:26:42   whether the prospects for Alphabet are bad, I don't know.

00:26:45   Maybe they've got some great new stuff up their sleeve.

00:26:47   But for Google as we know it,

00:26:48   I feel like they're going into a decline.

00:26:50   - Yeah, I mean in a way,

00:26:52   'cause it seems like they're taking the stuff

00:26:54   that they think is the long-term growth stuff

00:26:57   out of Google and other places.

00:26:59   - Right, and this logo change makes me feel

00:27:02   that the people left at Google,

00:27:05   what is now just Google,

00:27:07   really don't, they don't get what made Google great.

00:27:13   They don't get it, I think,

00:27:15   'cause to me this brand doesn't fit

00:27:17   what the best of Google feels like.

00:27:20   I mean it's-- - I was thinking,

00:27:23   well I was thinking that it was

00:27:26   more dictated by Alphabet.

00:27:28   - Maybe?

00:27:30   - Rather than done with internally to Google.

00:27:31   But I mean, maybe they said to go out and design a new logo.

00:27:36   Or maybe they said, we have to make sure

00:27:40   that the Alphabet brand is all consistent

00:27:44   and we're going in a different direction.

00:27:46   - Maybe, I don't know.

00:27:47   But I think they've lost something that was pretty good

00:27:52   and replaced it with something that's terrible.

00:27:55   Yeah, anyway, that's my thoughts on their logo.

00:27:58   I mean, I wouldn't.

00:28:04   I would not say that they have no taste, but

00:28:06   but I don't think their taste is as good as I'm.

00:28:09   They there are people in the

00:28:11   in teams within the company with great taste.

00:28:13   Institutionally, the company has no taste.

00:28:16   That's my argument.

00:28:17   And I think that it's a very strong argument.

00:28:19   Anyway, let's take a break and I'll tell you about

00:28:23   very good friend of the show Harry's you guys know Harry's they sell high quality razors

00:28:30   blades and other you know shaving lotions and creams and shaving stuff and they sell it for

00:28:38   a fraction of the price of the big brands they were started by two guys who just wanted to make

00:28:43   a better product and figured there had to be a way to sell shaving stuff especially blades

00:28:50   cheaper than what the big blade companies sell stuff for.

00:28:54   So they started ordering blades from their own factory

00:28:58   in Germany.

00:28:59   They liked the blade so much they just bought the factory.

00:29:01   Must be nice.

00:29:02   So they just own their own blade factory.

00:29:04   They make their own blades in Germany,

00:29:07   place that's been making blades for a long time.

00:29:10   And then they ship them right to you.

00:29:13   So there is no middleman.

00:29:14   That's how they have the prices so much lower.

00:29:16   So you buy like Gillette.

00:29:18   It's going to warehouses and middlemen and distributors,

00:29:23   and then it ends up in a retail store.

00:29:24   And every step of the way, it all gets marked up.

00:29:27   Their starter set, it's an amazing deal.

00:29:30   15 bucks, you get a razor, that's the handle.

00:29:33   You get moisturizing shave cream or gel,

00:29:35   your preference, whether you want a cream or a gel,

00:29:37   and three razor blades, 15 bucks.

00:29:40   And when you need more blades,

00:29:42   depending on how many you buy them at,

00:29:43   they're always two bucks or each less.

00:29:45   So like an eight pack, which is like a small one,

00:29:48   It's just 15 bucks, but you can get a 16-pack, 25 bucks.

00:29:52   Way, way better.

00:29:55   I think on Amazon, the last time I checked, it says a 12-pack of fusions from Gillette,

00:30:01   which is very comparable.

00:30:02   I think that's actually the blade I used to use before I switched to Harry's.

00:30:06   They have a 12-pack for 41 bucks.

00:30:09   So that's Amazon, who you know is not getting under cut-out price.

00:30:12   So way more.

00:30:13   It's like three bucks a blade,

00:30:14   more than three bucks a blade for Gillette's,

00:30:18   less than two bucks a blade for Harry's.

00:30:22   So if you're just looking to save money,

00:30:24   Harry's is the way to go.

00:30:26   If you care about design, Harry's is also the way to go.

00:30:29   Really nice packaging.

00:30:31   I've always said this, their packaging is so nice,

00:30:33   it makes me not want to throw it away,

00:30:34   and then I realized that that's just the crazy hoarder.

00:30:38   - Yeah, right.

00:30:39   But I know exactly, I mean, I have Harry's stuff,

00:30:42   I didn't know exactly what you mean. It's really well done. As I stare to my left in my office here

00:30:47   and look at the stack of old Apple laptops. I've got like eight old PowerBooks. I've got iBooks.

00:30:56   They're all stacked up. That's what I feel like when I get Harry's. I almost curse them for the

00:31:00   quality of their packaging. So if you care about design, Harry's is the way to go. If you care

00:31:05   about just being cheap, Harry's is the way to go. If you care about quality, shave so you're not

00:31:12   like cutting yourself up and you know making a mess of your face, Harry's is the way to go. Their

00:31:16   blades are super sharp, really great. And if you care about just being lazy, it's the way to go

00:31:22   because you don't even have to leave your house. They just show up and you can eat. If you want to,

00:31:25   you can even like tell them how often you need to replace your blades and just subscribe and they'll

00:31:30   They'll just send them to you on a regular basis.

00:31:32   So you win, I mean, every way.

00:31:36   So go there to harrys.com, H-A-R-R-Y-S.com.

00:31:41   And if it's your first purchase, use this code, talk show.

00:31:44   They don't have the the, it's just talk show.

00:31:45   And you'll save five bucks off your first purchase.

00:31:48   So that $15 kit I was telling you about is only 10 bucks.

00:31:50   So it's practically free.

00:31:52   So go there and check them out at harrys.com.

00:31:54   And remember the code, talk show.

00:31:56   My notes here are confusing.

00:32:00   I don't know, it says, and then down below here,

00:32:02   it says promo code the talk show.

00:32:04   So I don't even know what the hell the code is.

00:32:06   Try 'em both, and one of 'em will give you.

00:32:09   - Right, if you don't get money off, try again.

00:32:12   - It's actually a fun game.

00:32:15   - And then try Gruber.

00:32:16   - Yeah.

00:32:17   What else is going on?

00:32:21   So we got this Google logo thing out of the way.

00:32:22   I guess we'll talk, let's talk about the event,

00:32:24   'cause maybe that's--

00:32:25   - Do you wanna do that, or do you wanna talk about,

00:32:27   Because on No Taste we could talk about the Samsung watch.

00:32:30   Oh, that's a good one.

00:32:32   Yeah, we could talk about that.

00:32:33   Yeah, which I actually think looks really nice.

00:32:37   But I wrote a piece about the difference between square watch faces and round watch faces.

00:32:44   And I kind of think that square watch faces are actually more the way of the future than

00:32:50   round watch faces.

00:32:51   Ah, there I got the article.

00:32:53   I did not even know you wrote this piece.

00:32:55   This is nice.

00:32:56   I'll put that in the show notes.

00:32:57   I'm going to link that up.

00:32:59   All right, so tell me why do you think that?

00:33:01   Well, and again, you had the guy who's not a designer on.

00:33:06   But from the things that I've read from people

00:33:08   who are actually designers, it's certainly easier

00:33:12   to code for a square face.

00:33:15   But also, a square face is better

00:33:18   at representing most information.

00:33:20   That's not to say that there aren't certain instances where

00:33:23   or a round depiction of something is not more valuable

00:33:28   than a square one, it's just saying that you can easily,

00:33:31   more easily get a circle into a square

00:33:34   than the other way around.

00:33:36   You could get a circle into a square

00:33:37   without losing any size, whereas you cannot get a square

00:33:41   into a circle without losing size.

00:33:42   - Yeah, that is exactly what I have thought.

00:33:46   Well, would I have been shocked if a year ago,

00:33:52   and it would have been exactly a year ago as we talk,

00:33:56   that when they unveiled the Apple Watch,

00:33:57   if it had been circular,

00:33:59   I guess I wouldn't have been shocked,

00:34:01   but I wasn't surprised at all that Apple's was rectangular

00:34:06   because of that exact thing,

00:34:09   that it's for generic display

00:34:13   that might end up displaying anything,

00:34:16   including, and I think especially today's Apple,

00:34:20   post App Store and iPhone Apple realizes

00:34:25   that the Apple Watch was, if it's successful,

00:34:31   would end up being used in ways

00:34:34   that they'd never imagined, right?

00:34:36   That's like the big lesson of the iPhone to me

00:34:41   is that there was this whole internal debate.

00:34:48   I think Ben Thompson and I were talking about

00:34:50   in the last episode, that it's just so funny

00:34:52   that there was a camp within the company

00:34:53   that was sort of like, we don't need an app store.

00:34:55   You know, we'll just make all the apps we need ourselves

00:34:58   and partner with companies, you know,

00:34:59   like Google for the YouTube app and the Google Maps app

00:35:03   that shipped on the first iPhone.

00:35:04   We'll just partner with people

00:35:06   and we'll make all the apps that we need for this thing.

00:35:08   So like, for example, I do think that Apple foresaw

00:35:12   that there would have, you know,

00:35:13   right away that there would be a second screen of apps.

00:35:16   You know, I think that they had the idea

00:35:18   that you'd page between, you know,

00:35:19   from the left to the right, you know, to get to more apps.

00:35:22   I think though that there was a side within the company

00:35:24   that thought, you know, that'll be--

00:35:26   - There'll all be our apps.

00:35:27   - Yeah, there'll be like 24 apps for the iPhone

00:35:30   and it'll be great.

00:35:31   And that Safari was the outlet for it.

00:35:35   You know, I actually think that, you know,

00:35:38   that when they announced that at the first WWDC

00:35:40   that we have a sweet solution for you guys,

00:35:42   I think that they meant it.

00:35:44   I think there were some people within the company

00:35:46   who wanted, definitely were pushing for the App Store angle,

00:35:49   who cringed at that, just like all the developers

00:35:53   in the audience watching the keynote did.

00:35:56   But I think that some of them thought,

00:35:58   that's good enough for like,

00:36:00   and I think they foresaw things like,

00:36:03   well, you do your online banking on your phone.

00:36:05   Well, they'll just write a website that works,

00:36:08   that fits right on the screen.

00:36:10   So I think now, lo these many years later

00:36:14   and all these literally millions of apps

00:36:16   and all the money they're making on the apps,

00:36:18   they realize, hey, the phone is being used

00:36:20   in ways we never imagined.

00:36:21   I think they knew going into it with the watch

00:36:23   that it would be used in ways they didn't imagine,

00:36:25   and I think a rectangle is a better generic shape

00:36:28   than a circle for that.

00:36:30   - Yeah, and the thing, one of the things that struck me,

00:36:33   even just like while I was writing this piece was that,

00:36:36   'cause I went back and looked at all the old watches

00:36:38   that I had lying around, and I guess that came out

00:36:43   because I was using a circular watch face,

00:36:46   and I switched to modular, which I like and don't like,

00:36:50   but I like it because it's got a lot

00:36:51   of extra information on it.

00:36:54   And the problem that I had was like,

00:36:55   I wanted a watch face with a date on it.

00:36:58   And I also wanted a watch face

00:37:01   that I could get the most complications on.

00:37:03   And the way you do that in most of them

00:37:06   is by putting the date inside the watch face.

00:37:09   Well, most of those are too small for me to read

00:37:12   because I'm too old for it now.

00:37:15   And the other thing is that five minutes out of every hour,

00:37:19   you can't read the date anyway,

00:37:22   because the minute hand is covering it.

00:37:24   - Yeah, I've thought the same thing.

00:37:26   - Yeah, and that's sort of like,

00:37:29   it was interesting how I went back

00:37:32   and looked at those old watches and thought,

00:37:33   yeah, I mean, that's kind of a thing

00:37:34   that I've struggled with for years, really,

00:37:36   and never really thought much about.

00:37:39   But I mean, you can, with a watch with physical hands,

00:37:42   the minute hand is always the one that's higher,

00:37:44   So you can kind of tilt to see around it

00:37:47   in order to see what the date is.

00:37:51   But it's even worse on like a chronograph

00:37:54   because it's got all those extra things on there

00:37:57   that are on the face, but they get covered up

00:37:59   at odd parts of the hour and become difficult to use.

00:38:04   So all that stuff is just adding information

00:38:08   to a watch with a circular face

00:38:09   and trying to put it inside that circle

00:38:11   becomes really difficult.

00:38:12   - Yeah.

00:38:13   And the modular face, while I don't like certain things

00:38:16   about it, it just displays all the information.

00:38:20   - And there is a psychological angle to it too.

00:38:25   Like the way that everybody, the famous,

00:38:29   the adage that if you drop a slice of butter toast,

00:38:31   it's always gonna land butter side down.

00:38:33   It's because that's what you remember

00:38:35   is the time that it did that.

00:38:36   It just seems like it's more often than not,

00:38:40   when I wanna check the date, it's quarter after.

00:38:43   It's just like, oh my God, how come every time

00:38:46   I wanna check the date, it's quarter after

00:38:48   and I can't see the date?

00:38:49   What the hell?

00:38:51   And that's not true.

00:38:52   It's just that all the other times I check the date,

00:38:54   I don't remember that, but the times that it is blocked,

00:38:57   I remember and then it just feels like

00:38:59   it's always quarter after.

00:39:01   Just like when you play blackjack,

00:39:04   it seems like I always get 16.

00:39:06   That's all I remember.

00:39:07   Every goddamn hand.

00:39:08   - You only ever get 16.

00:39:10   - All I ever get are 16s.

00:39:11   and the dealer gets a blackjack every goddamn time.

00:39:14   Every time, how is that possible?

00:39:16   - It's unreal.

00:39:17   - Yeah, so that is true.

00:39:18   And I think that too, it also, it stinks,

00:39:22   it doesn't stink, it sticks out with the Apple Watch

00:39:25   even more because when it happens,

00:39:28   you realize that you have the option

00:39:30   of changing to a different face that it fixes it.

00:39:33   You know, like if you buy an analog watch

00:39:36   and the date gets covered up when it's quarter after,

00:39:38   you might be annoyed, but you don't think,

00:39:40   well I could spend 10 seconds here and change the WOD face

00:39:43   and fix this problem, right?

00:39:45   Whereas with the Apple Watch, you know,

00:39:47   it's always an option to switch to a different face

00:39:49   where you don't have that problem.

00:39:50   - Yeah.

00:39:52   And so that Samsung Watch, the Galaxy, the Gear S2,

00:39:56   is a very nice looking circular faced smartwatch.

00:40:01   But I still feel like the circular face is the wrong UI.

00:40:08   - Yeah, I think it's--

00:40:09   design. But maybe not catastrophically, you know, like maybe that's not necessarily going to limit

00:40:18   the success of those watches. But I do think, you know, there are some people, this is a funny little

00:40:24   side topic, this square versus round thing. There's a fair number of people who I've seen,

00:40:32   you know, either an email or on Twitter, you know, communicating with me that are predicting

00:40:37   that Apple will eventually go circular because circular watches look better.

00:40:41   People who look at the Apple Watch and say, "I just don't like...

00:40:44   It looks too nerdy to me because it's square." Apple's got... They're going to go circular

00:40:50   eventually. And I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen

00:40:53   either, but... I think it would be... And I think it would be way too hard. Now, of course,

00:40:58   Apple changes things all the time, and they're never really all that worried about making

00:41:02   developers do more work. I mean, they're not, and they shouldn't be. If they were,

00:41:06   it would actually slow them down and in the long run, in the short run it's

00:41:10   always, it's never good if they're making, if they make changes that make

00:41:13   developers do more work. Like the the big change in iOS 7 where the, you know,

00:41:19   pretty much every single app other than games had to redo their entire user

00:41:22   interface or else they would look bad. That's, you know, it's a lot to ask.

00:41:28   Every day all of you with all of your apps have to redo all of the entirety of

00:41:32   your user interface that's a lot to ask but it's the right move going forward

00:41:36   rather than stick with something that's you know going to be outdated still

00:41:40   waiting for a new icon from Instagram they redid the interface right I really

00:41:47   wonder I wonder on don't I can change I would love to hear what what the

00:41:52   argument inside the company is on that because it their icon does really just

00:41:56   being just being dicks at this point and you it's not hard to imagine just and I

00:42:02   I know flat is an overused term,

00:42:05   but just flatten the goddamn thing.

00:42:07   - Right, right, right.

00:42:08   It could be the same colors.

00:42:09   - Yeah, same colors.

00:42:11   I think it would move the drop shadow.

00:42:13   - Right.

00:42:14   Just de-forstall it.

00:42:17   Yeah, I do think the new Samsung,

00:42:24   I'm gonna get it wrong.

00:42:25   On Twitter there, I called it the G2.

00:42:27   It's not the G2, it's the S2.

00:42:29   - Gear S2.

00:42:30   - I'm just gonna call it the Samsung launch.

00:42:31   which is not a great name.

00:42:33   - I actually, here's a case where I wish

00:42:34   that they just copied Apple and just called it Samsung Watch.

00:42:38   'Cause that's, but then I could remember the name.

00:42:42   But anyway, it, you know, and I was, you know,

00:42:46   pretty complimentary to it when I linked to it.

00:42:47   I, you know, and people who, I saw people,

00:42:51   a few people said, I was surprised

00:42:52   to see you be complimentary to it.

00:42:54   And to me, that, it's like, I'm never trying

00:42:56   to be against Samsung or against Google.

00:42:59   I'm saying what I really think.

00:43:01   And what I really think about most Samsung products

00:43:03   is that they're derivative crap.

00:43:06   So therefore it seems as though I'm against Samsung

00:43:10   because I keep saying it,

00:43:11   but it's because they keep putting out

00:43:12   what I see as derivative crap,

00:43:13   and then they put out something that to me is interesting

00:43:16   and original and looks pretty good.

00:43:17   And so I said, it's interesting

00:43:19   and original and looks pretty good.

00:43:21   They did copy a few things from the Apple Watch.

00:43:23   - Right, that round.

00:43:25   I mean, with their system though,

00:43:28   it's apps instead of contacts, right?

00:43:32   - Yeah, yeah.

00:43:33   - It looks like the contacts thing that comes up

00:43:36   when you hit the button on the side of the Apple Watch,

00:43:37   except it's actually apps.

00:43:38   - Yeah, and the other thing is, did you see the interface?

00:43:43   I couldn't find a better place to link to it,

00:43:46   but there's just a couple seconds of it

00:43:47   in the Verges video where they show what it,

00:43:50   when you, they don't call them complications,

00:43:52   I forget what they call them.

00:43:53   They came up with a new word for complications,

00:43:55   but whatever they call the complications

00:43:58   on their watch faces that are user adjustable.

00:44:01   When you go into the edit mode,

00:44:03   it is exactly like Apple Watch.

00:44:05   Like there's a little,

00:44:07   there's dots at the top that you can swipe

00:44:11   between which thing you're editing.

00:44:12   When you're like changing the color of the second hand,

00:44:17   it highlights in the same color,

00:44:20   and they even like use like the same all caps

00:44:24   in a round rack thing that says like color.

00:44:27   If you look for it, it's just exactly,

00:44:30   like it could not be more of a copy.

00:44:33   Kind of embarrassing for them, but.

00:44:36   - But in terms of outward appearance,

00:44:38   for the most part it does not look like anything like it.

00:44:42   And that the, what do they call it?

00:44:45   The--

00:44:46   - The bezel.

00:44:47   - The bezel, yeah, the rotating bezel

00:44:49   as a thing that changes the interface.

00:44:52   is a really good idea.

00:44:54   - Yeah, it seems like it.

00:44:55   And by all reports from people who've had a hands-on with it

00:44:58   it has a good feel to it, which is important.

00:45:00   It's funny, it's actually like,

00:45:03   talking about this is exactly why I like having a podcast.

00:45:07   'Cause I almost feel like,

00:45:09   even if I had gone really long writing about it,

00:45:12   it would be so much easier just to talk about it,

00:45:15   which is that I wanted to say, look,

00:45:17   they copied a few little things,

00:45:19   But overall, it's mostly an original design

00:45:24   and kudos, and a good one, and kudos to them for that.

00:45:26   But I didn't wanna mention the little things

00:45:28   that they copied because then people would say,

00:45:31   how can you call this a copy?

00:45:33   Right, it's round instead of square,

00:45:35   how can you say it's a rip-off?

00:45:37   And I'm not saying that, I'm just saying

00:45:39   they did steal a few things, but everybody does that.

00:45:42   So I don't even think it's worth complaining about,

00:45:44   in the way that Apple will steal things,

00:45:46   like Command Tab, which was a Windows invention.

00:45:50   So taking little good ideas from the other guys is okay.

00:45:53   It's the--

00:45:55   - When you wholesale copy the whole entire thing.

00:45:58   - Right, when you get Phil Schiller on the stand

00:46:01   in a court case and they hold up a thing

00:46:03   and he says, "I can't tell if that's--"

00:46:04   - They can't tell the difference.

00:46:06   - If that's ours or his.

00:46:07   And it's like, you know damn well you can tell

00:46:09   if that's ours.

00:46:10   - But one of the other things I liked about it

00:46:12   that it kind of more so than any of the other any of the Android wear watches.

00:46:18   And then I know this one's based on Tizen, but that it has a good sense of what it is.

00:46:24   - Yeah.

00:46:25   - There's like two of them. There's like two levels, right? And one of them looks like to

00:46:29   me like a swatch, which is not a cut down. And the other one looks like a good like $80 or $90,

00:46:36   a hundred, something like that. Sort of a mid range watch. And I'm sure they'll probably cost

00:46:40   more because they have they have more features they should cost more and it

00:46:44   just but we don't still don't know how much they're gonna cost but they didn't

00:46:47   like the to me the the motor role just looks flat-out terrible the three

00:46:53   motor all 360 just looks terrible because it's just a cylinder cut off

00:46:57   with like little prongs on the end to attach a band to and then the other one

00:47:02   that's a big Android where watches the horribly named LG one the oh yeah

00:47:08   Watcher Bane

00:47:10   Which looks like it's trying to be a fancy watch

00:47:14   But it looks like it's made out of cheap materials

00:47:17   Is that the one that has numbers printed around the bezel like hardware printed around the bezel?

00:47:23   I don't think so. No. No, there's one that has like a third like 15 30 45

00:47:29   Around the outside which really is really weird on it. That's very strange on a smartwatch. Yeah

00:47:36   Like it's I know why it's there because you're using it to tell time most of the time

00:47:40   But it just seems like a weird it just seems weird that it's been on the hardware instead of doing it on the screen

00:47:45   But that's the one that people

00:47:46   The LG one is the one that people most point to and say or had up to date

00:47:50   Pointed to and said that looks like a real watch. Yeah

00:47:54   Which I mean, you know there there have been square watches before

00:47:59   And also it looks like a real crappy watch to me

00:48:03   Yeah, whereas this one looks like a good like maybe, you know somewhat more casual not super fancy, but like a good watch

00:48:10   Yeah, it's it's funny because I feel like in my experience

00:48:13   You really do have to see any watch in person to truly get a sense of the size

00:48:18   Like seeing a photograph of it on somebody's wrist just doesn't really work

00:48:23   Although if it's if it's a huge enough like the original moto

00:48:26   270

00:48:28   You can tell just by looking at the picture that it's humongous

00:48:31   But then when you look at it in real life,

00:48:32   you're like, oh my God, it's even bigger than I thought.

00:48:35   But that said, the numbers of the,

00:48:39   I think the Samsung, there's two sizes, 40 and 42.

00:48:41   And 40 millimeters is really a standard size

00:48:46   for a watch today.

00:48:48   The old standard for men's watches, older,

00:48:51   like going back decades, was more like 36 millimeters.

00:48:53   But 40 is pretty standard.

00:48:58   And obviously comparable roughly to Apple's 42.

00:49:02   It is interesting to me that even a year later,

00:49:05   even Samsung can't yet match Apple on the 38.

00:49:08   'Cause I do think one of the problems with the Samsung one.

00:49:12   So I think the Samsung one, totally credible,

00:49:15   just as like a piece of jewelry on a man's wrist.

00:49:17   And to me, it's the first one that's not the Apple Watch

00:49:22   that qualifies for that, really.

00:49:24   Even the LG one, I don't really think looks that good.

00:49:27   I still don't think though that the Samsung one,

00:49:32   even the smaller one,

00:49:33   I don't think it's gonna be something that women would wear.

00:49:38   I just don't think it's small enough yet.

00:49:40   And I think Samsung kind of knows it

00:49:41   because I don't think any of the bands that they've done

00:49:45   look like they're targeted at women.

00:49:48   That's not to say no women will buy it.

00:49:51   - Yeah, I mean, yeah, right.

00:49:52   - And watches are a funny thing,

00:49:53   whereas an awful lot of--

00:49:54   - People like different styles.

00:49:55   - Yeah.

00:49:56   of women wear like big chunky watches. Well and look at the Apple Watch there's

00:50:01   an awful lot of the you know especially the most popular ones like the sport the

00:50:05   sport ones are you know unisex you know I think you know you could argue that

00:50:09   the pink band is you know probably if you know more feminine but I would say

00:50:17   other than the pink all of the other colors even the black are are unisex you

00:50:22   know I wouldn't say that you know that there's really any kind of gender

00:50:26   towards that. I think that the the link bracelet is probably you know to me

00:50:31   looks masculine but most of the other ones I think are unisex but I think

00:50:37   Samsung's with the like the leather and stuff like that I I think they look like

00:50:41   men's watches just in general. Yeah yeah I mean I would say I would say that a

00:50:47   man would be more likely to like it than than a woman which is not you know not

00:50:53   to make a flat out blanket statement. So an interesting thing that I was not

00:50:59   aware of somebody on Twitter pointed out to me that that the fact that they're

00:51:03   using Tizen instead of Android Wear opens up China to them and that Android

00:51:09   Wear apparently is not there's no Android Wear watches aren't available in

00:51:13   China and I could be wrong here just going from a guy on Twitter and I asked

00:51:17   him to clarify and he said that I did know that this was true that you know

00:51:22   know how like with Android, Samsung takes Android from Google and if they agree to such

00:51:30   and such, they can have these Google apps built in but they still get to customize the

00:51:34   interface with, what do they call it, TouchWiz, and they can add their own apps and stuff.

00:51:41   Android Wear, there is no option to do that. Android Wear, you get Android Wear and you

00:51:46   do it. I think you can add custom faces but that's about it. You can't disentangle it.

00:51:51   Your own apps in there. Yeah, and it's like you and that's a problem in China because in China

00:51:57   I guess all the Android phones are all you know, instead of having Google search and stuff like that

00:52:01   They've all got the the Chinese equivalents

00:52:03   right

00:52:06   So that's interesting because I've heard China is a big market

00:52:10   Now the Allen the Apple watch is definitely on sale in China, yeah, well, but that's somehow you know

00:52:18   You know, that's just Apple being yeah, right, right. I

00:52:23   Think that I guess I don't even know I'd got me thinking about it

00:52:28   Like does if you're in China with an iPhone, I guess that the App Store has different apps

00:52:34   I mean, I don't even know how that how that works

00:52:36   I've never really thought about that but with the way that China, you know has the the great firewall for internet access

00:52:41   How does the App Store work in China? I actually I should probably do some research on this

00:52:48   - Yeah, we should probably all brush up

00:52:50   on how things work in China.

00:52:52   - If anybody out there knows--

00:52:53   - We should have done that five years ago.

00:52:55   - If anybody out there knows,

00:52:56   send me email and explain this to me.

00:52:57   I would love to hear about it,

00:52:59   but it seems very confusing to me.

00:53:01   But anyway, yeah, I'm interested by your article,

00:53:06   but I do think Samsung did a good job with the S2.

00:53:09   - Yeah, yeah.

00:53:10   - The other thing it got me thinking about too,

00:53:15   and I've mentioned this on "Daring Fireball,"

00:53:16   But the watch, and this kind of leads into the next topic,

00:53:20   which is next week and what we expect,

00:53:22   and talking about Apple TV.

00:53:24   But the thing that's so weird about these smartwatches

00:53:28   is the way that they're all,

00:53:30   and I think eventually they'll be independent

00:53:34   and they'll just have their own internet access.

00:53:36   But the way that everybody's,

00:53:38   whether it's Apple's or Android's or Tizen,

00:53:40   is tied to the phone, a phone, that it's paired with

00:53:45   to get most of its information and apps and stuff like that.

00:53:48   That people don't really have a choice here.

00:53:51   Like if it's really, do you wanna get a smartwatch or not?

00:53:54   And if you do, you're on one side of the fence.

00:53:57   You can only use an Apple Watch if your phone is an iPhone.

00:54:01   - Right.

00:54:03   - And I guess--

00:54:04   - You can use an Android Wear now on the iPhone.

00:54:08   - But it's very, very unlikely.

00:54:11   I mean, that's-- - Yes, yes.

00:54:13   I just can't imagine how many people would do that.

00:54:16   - Right.

00:54:17   - It's very unlikely.

00:54:18   - Yeah.

00:54:19   And supposedly, I guess, Samsung was quoted recently

00:54:21   as saying that they're gonna try and bring the Tizen watch

00:54:25   to the iPhone as well.

00:54:27   - Why bother?

00:54:28   I honestly, I don't know.

00:54:29   - I would like to try one.

00:54:30   - Yeah, I guess it's true.

00:54:31   - I would be interested in trying one,

00:54:32   depending on how much it costs, but I would--

00:54:34   - Right.

00:54:35   - I might pick up the low-end one and give it a try.

00:54:37   - Yeah, I would do that, but that's just me being stupid.

00:54:40   I mean, I shouldn't even call it stupid.

00:54:42   I could totally justify it as a business expense

00:54:44   that I might write about.

00:54:45   Same reason that I bought the Pebble.

00:54:47   I paid for both generations of Pebble

00:54:49   just so I could speak about them intelligently.

00:54:52   Knowing going in that it was almost certain

00:54:54   that I wasn't gonna actually wear it regularly.

00:54:57   But I just think it makes it so interesting.

00:55:01   And a little sad, 'cause I do wish

00:55:03   that they were independent so that I could just spend,

00:55:05   'cause I'm gonna guess that the Samsung One

00:55:08   is like $300 to $400.

00:55:10   That's what I'm gonna guess.

00:55:12   Maybe up to five, but probably not.

00:55:15   I just don't see how they could justify it.

00:55:17   - No, I wouldn't think it's that much.

00:55:20   I would not think it's that much.

00:55:21   I was wondering if it might be a little bit cheaper, like 250.

00:55:23   - Yeah.

00:55:24   Did you see, I know you mentioned this too in your article,

00:55:28   that there's a new generation of Moto 360s

00:55:31   that are still, they're still 270s.

00:55:34   Even a year later, they've still got the flat tire design.

00:55:39   (laughing)

00:55:41   I thought you made a mistake earlier.

00:55:43   I get it now.

00:55:44   When you called it a 270.

00:55:46   - Oh, I've been doing that for a while.

00:55:48   I've been doing that all year.

00:55:50   I think I really want everyone,

00:55:51   I wish that they just renamed it Numoto 270.

00:55:54   It is smaller, but did you notice that they've come out,

00:56:00   and again, I wouldn't call this copying Apple,

00:56:03   but it's come out with a very large variety of colors

00:56:07   and bands and straps to choose from.

00:56:10   I wouldn't say that that's ripping off Apple at all because you know that's just

00:56:17   you know that's but it's just interesting to me though that Apple

00:56:21   defined this that aspect of the smart watch right away you know that that the

00:56:28   way to go is to be you know to have you know get in all the accessories right

00:56:32   and cover of a reasonable range of styles which is interesting that they

00:56:40   they because they have never done that with the iPhone particularly know the

00:56:46   eye or the iPad they'll make they'll make us a couple of cases and that's it

00:56:51   yeah yes they had I guess they have a few they have a few iPhone cases now

00:56:56   don't they they have like a leather one and a plastic one yeah but they yeah but

00:57:01   it's not a big deal it's no it's nowhere near as no and they have lots of watch

00:57:05   bands now and that's one of the things that may be coming next week is more

00:57:10   bands. Yeah well I one thing I do notice like so for example I saw a ton of

00:57:14   iPhones yesterday just because there was a like a huge free music festival this

00:57:21   weekend here in Philly it's like Jay-Z and Beyonce and it's like the Budweiser

00:57:27   made in America fest or something I mean like seriously like hundreds of

00:57:31   thousands of people out on our parkway.

00:57:34   And of course I did not go to it,

00:57:37   but I went for a run yesterday and I thought,

00:57:39   well I'm gonna go, that gives me a target,

00:57:43   couple of miles and I can go up there and check it out.

00:57:46   Thousands, I mean just thousands of people

00:57:48   were heading towards it and lots and lots of people

00:57:52   with their phones out.

00:57:53   And it just struck me yesterday that it just seems like

00:57:58   almost everybody has a phone or an iPhone

00:58:01   and I could tell, you know,

00:58:03   you can always tell from the camera placement

00:58:05   if it's an iPhone, 'cause the iPhone's the only one

00:58:06   that has it up in the corner.

00:58:08   And that everybody has a case,

00:58:10   and that I don't think I saw anybody

00:58:13   with the same case as each other.

00:58:14   Like, I think if I had taken a picture

00:58:16   of every single person I saw with an iPhone,

00:58:18   and it would have been dozens and dozens of people,

00:58:20   that no two people have the same case.

00:58:24   It's tons of variety there.

00:58:26   And I kind of feel like that's a less,

00:58:28   I feel like Apple has sort of embraced that.

00:58:30   And the more I think about it as the years gone on,

00:58:32   like that that's why the camera bump is there.

00:58:36   That's why they were willing to live with it

00:58:38   'cause they realized that most people

00:58:40   were gonna use it in a case anyway.

00:58:41   And so the camera bump doesn't matter.

00:58:44   Even though for people like me,

00:58:45   it breaks my heart every single day.

00:58:47   (laughing)

00:58:48   - The camera bump?

00:58:49   - Yeah, every day.

00:58:50   There's not a day,

00:58:52   not a single day has gone by in the last year

00:58:54   that it has not occurred to me,

00:58:55   at least at some point when my finger

00:58:57   has encountered that bump that ugh,

00:58:59   This is gross.

00:59:00   - Wow.

00:59:03   - Every day.

00:59:04   - I feel like I've gotten used to it.

00:59:05   - No, no.

00:59:06   - I don't feel like I give it too much of a thought.

00:59:09   - Oh, well I--

00:59:11   - And you don't use a case, right?

00:59:12   - No, I've never used a case.

00:59:14   Months ago, for months I thought, like last year,

00:59:16   I thought, well that's something that they could fix

00:59:18   next year with the 6S, 'cause even with the S year

00:59:21   where they don't really change the physical design,

00:59:24   surely they could just make the camera flush with the back.

00:59:27   but now I'm thinking I'm not expecting it next week.

00:59:31   It's funny 'cause it's the way that I obsess

00:59:33   over these tiny little details that most people don't.

00:59:37   It's like the main thing I'm curious about for next week

00:59:40   is whether or not the new phones will have a bump.

00:59:42   I think they probably will because I think that they've,

00:59:45   I think that they've kind of given into the fact

00:59:47   that most people use the phone in a case.

00:59:49   - Well, I mean, but isn't the reason

00:59:53   there's a bump simply physics?

00:59:56   - Yeah, yeah, but they, you know.

01:00:00   - So they, in order to get the right focal length, right?

01:00:03   - Right.

01:00:03   - It has to be a certain depth,

01:00:05   and because they want the phone to be thinner,

01:00:08   at some point, the camera has to stick out.

01:00:11   - Well, or if it didn't stick out,

01:00:14   it would be a--

01:00:16   - Crappier camera.

01:00:17   - Right, it would be a less visually,

01:00:19   you know, what would be the word?

01:00:20   It would be a worse camera.

01:00:21   - Right.

01:00:22   - You know, at some point, you know,

01:00:23   but they could make it stick out more

01:00:24   and have it be better.

01:00:26   - Yeah. (laughs)

01:00:28   I think it should be telescoping.

01:00:30   - Right.

01:00:31   I think that the old Apple, I think prior to last year,

01:00:35   I think that it was just non-negotiable though

01:00:37   that it was gonna be flush and that they would,

01:00:40   here's how thick we'll make it with,

01:00:43   taking all these factors into how thick

01:00:45   the thing is gonna be, how strong it is,

01:00:46   how much battery they need, how can,

01:00:49   I think how thick an iPhone is is probably

01:00:52   an incredibly complex equation.

01:00:55   - Oh, sure.

01:00:56   just decide it's all of these factors how strong it is is it gonna you know is

01:01:00   it gonna bend famously and you know how good how good will the camera be and I

01:01:06   think it's you know I think before though they'd come to some conclusion

01:01:10   and then they would make the best camera that would fit in that flush whereas

01:01:14   last year they you know said we can make it this then but then the camera is kind

01:01:18   to kind of be crap and they like you know took a shot of whiskey. I just

01:01:26   imagined it I just imagined that Johnny I've really had to take it oh yeah here

01:01:30   to take us to had to take a stiff drink to it's not like being told that physics

01:01:35   is the way it was let's take a break and then we'll talk about it okay because I

01:01:40   have to tell you about my good friends at fracture these guys keep coming back

01:01:45   keep sponsoring the show and the reason is that people keep buying pictures from them and that's

01:01:49   great. These are the guys, you guys know it, I know everybody's, unless you're a new listener,

01:01:55   you know who Fracture is. They're a service you send your digital photos to them and they print

01:02:01   them directly on glass. Not really on the front of the glass, it's actually behind the glass,

01:02:07   but it's an incredibly thin piece of glass. All sorts of sizes ranging from little desktop ones,

01:02:14   little square ones, to big 23 by 29 ones, which is a really, really big size. Really, really thin piece

01:02:21   of glass. They print your image on the back of it so it shines through, but it's so thin it really

01:02:26   does look like it's on the surface of the glass. And again, it's like that same effect as like when

01:02:33   Apple started laminating the iPhone displays to the touchscreen to the glass, where it no longer

01:02:39   look like pixels under glass, it looked like pixels on the glass. That's exactly what these

01:02:43   fracture prints look like. Really, really neat effect. But also, and I'm stealing this from

01:02:50   Marco's read on an ATP recently, and I didn't really think about this until Marco said it,

01:02:55   but because their glass is so thin, their pictures are super, super lightweight.

01:03:00   And I've noticed that with the ones we have in our house too. It's usually with a reasonably sized

01:03:05   picture and the frame and everything. It's a big heavy thing on the wall. And I know there's,

01:03:09   you know you get the special things you tap in the wall and it's you know it all

01:03:12   every time I hang up used to hang up pictures I used to think this is never

01:03:15   this is never gonna and I'm not handy so it's like I feel like you know I'm gonna

01:03:22   have to call someone then when there's you know the picture collapses and takes

01:03:25   out a big chunk of the wall I never we get earthquakes out here - yes you got a

01:03:29   real thing the fractures they're so lightweight I never have to worry I

01:03:33   never I have a bunch of them hang around the house and I realized that they're

01:03:36   the only pictures I've ever hung where I haven't walked, stepped away from it,

01:03:40   thinking I'm gonna watch this fall in ten seconds. Really, really lightweight.

01:03:44   It's just great. It's so great that if you've ever tried this, you're never

01:03:49   gonna... it has occurred to me, and I really do believe this, you're never ever going

01:03:54   to hang your own photographs by printing it on paper and then putting them in a

01:03:58   frame again. You're never gonna use anything but fracture. And it solves so

01:04:03   many other problems too. Another problem, I have, like you go to Ikea and buy a frame

01:04:06   and you put a picture in there. I never get the damn picture to sit so that when you close

01:04:12   the thing up and you put all the clasps in and it just drops a little bit and you see

01:04:16   like a piece of the backing behind the thing in there.

01:04:20   Or your thumb, or your thumb prints on the inside of the glass.

01:04:22   Yeah, it's, it's a mess. Like the old way of doing it. I've, I've been thinking about

01:04:27   this lately because I've been trying to think of new things to say about fracture and that's

01:04:29   another one. It's like the old way of doing it where you have a picture that's

01:04:33   printed out and you put it in a frame. It's a huge pain in the ass. It's an

01:04:37   enormous pain in the ass. Fracture solves all these problems. So anytime you need

01:04:41   to print a picture, just go to Fracture. I can't even see why you would do

01:04:45   anything else. Now here's the other thing. You can... what's the code for... I don't

01:04:50   even know. The goddamn notes don't have a code, but I could probably find it. I'll

01:04:54   bet they've sponsored the show recently. I'll just go to my website. Probably the

01:04:59   talk show? What do you think? What's your guess? That would be my guess.

01:05:04   Nope. Daring Fireball. We should just make it a game. Let's make it a game for

01:05:12   all these sponsors what the code is. Well anyway, use that code daring fireball

01:05:17   when you go to fracture. Fractureme.com is their URL. Go there. Use that code

01:05:21   when you print your pictures out and you will save 15% off your first order. I

01:05:27   I really do mean this in complete sincerity.

01:05:31   Even if they never sponsored my show again,

01:05:32   I can't imagine why anybody else would,

01:05:34   why you would ever print a photo any other way

01:05:36   to hang on your wall than to go to fracture.

01:05:39   It's that good and that easy.

01:05:41   So my thanks to them.

01:05:42   Go buy some pictures.

01:05:43   All right, what else we got?

01:05:47   We got next week.

01:05:48   Should we talk about next week?

01:05:49   - Next week, which is technically this week.

01:05:52   - Technically this week.

01:05:54   So in a couple days I will be flying to California.

01:05:57   And Apple is having an event.

01:06:02   - It's Wednesday, right?

01:06:03   - It's a Wednesday event which is,

01:06:05   it's easy to figure out why.

01:06:08   I'm not smart until somebody else told me this,

01:06:11   but it's because they didn't wanna make people fly

01:06:14   on Labor Day.

01:06:15   Apple loves us, we in the media, so much.

01:06:20   - That's very sweet.

01:06:21   - So much respect for me that they wanted

01:06:23   make sure I got a complete three-day weekend

01:06:26   to relax from my backbreaking schedule

01:06:30   so that I didn't have to fly on Monday.

01:06:34   And I guess, presumably, so that Apple themselves

01:06:37   wouldn't have to work, you know,

01:06:40   I don't know, I'm gonna guess that most of the people

01:06:42   involved in this event are probably pretty busy this weekend

01:06:44   that they're not really relaxing, but--

01:06:46   - Yeah, no. (laughs)

01:06:49   - Anyway. - Yeah, which is kinda,

01:06:50   which probably stinks, right?

01:06:51   I mean, like, school starts for us this week.

01:06:55   - Yeah, same here.

01:06:56   - I think in California it started already though.

01:06:58   - Yeah.

01:06:59   - I think it started last week,

01:07:00   'cause somebody, I mentioned that to somebody else,

01:07:03   and they said now school started last week.

01:07:05   - Yeah, and there are a lot of places in Pennsylvania now

01:07:07   that start in, started last week too,

01:07:09   which is crazy to me.

01:07:11   There are a lot of places that start in August,

01:07:13   which to me just seems criminal.

01:07:15   - Yeah, yeah.

01:07:16   Although, I mean, this year, Labor Day is really late.

01:07:18   - Yeah, it is really late.

01:07:19   - So starting after Labor Day is kind of like.

01:07:22   - Yeah.

01:07:23   But there are also, I guess too,

01:07:25   you know what it might be?

01:07:26   It might be too that I would not be surprised one bit

01:07:31   if this facility that the place has some kind of union

01:07:35   workers that cannot be, have to get off for Labor Day.

01:07:40   - Yeah.

01:07:41   - And that they need, they definitely need to be in there

01:07:44   doing stuff the day before.

01:07:45   So anyway, it's all because of Labor Day.

01:07:48   Thanks, Labor Day.

01:07:49   (laughing)

01:07:50   - Thanks for nothing.

01:07:51   - All right.

01:07:52   - So one of the things that might,

01:07:56   okay, so new phones, right?

01:07:58   - New phones are a sure thing.

01:07:59   I think that there is the surest thing

01:08:02   in the universe regarding this event.

01:08:04   - Yeah, yeah.

01:08:06   And Mark Gurman says they might actually be thicker.

01:08:10   - Yeah.

01:08:12   - Just slightly, maybe for most people,

01:08:15   imperceptibly thicker.

01:08:16   - Yeah, I think that that's,

01:08:18   I think he's not even alone in reporting that.

01:08:21   A lot of the stuff that's come out,

01:08:23   goddamn kid has some sources.

01:08:25   - Yeah.

01:08:26   - Although some of them it's weird,

01:08:27   it's weird who some of his sources are.

01:08:30   I know him well enough and I do trust him.

01:08:35   I think every single word he writes is true,

01:08:39   but that doesn't mean that all the things

01:08:40   he says are gonna happen are gonna happen.

01:08:42   Like he's always, you know, he'll say that, you know,

01:08:44   like he gave away the name of the force touch screen,

01:08:49   that it's the 3D touch screen,

01:08:51   that's what they're gonna call it.

01:08:53   But that his source,

01:08:53   and this is just like yesterday or the day before,

01:08:55   but his sources said that it could change.

01:08:58   Well, it's like, I believe him that somebody within Apple

01:09:02   told him that at some point they were thinking

01:09:04   about calling it the 3D touch screen

01:09:06   or whatever he says they're gonna call it.

01:09:08   But if his source really knew,

01:09:11   they would, you know, today,

01:09:13   like five days before the event,

01:09:14   They would know it for a fact, you know what I mean?

01:09:17   So like, what he wrote is exactly true,

01:09:20   that it could come out with another name,

01:09:23   but that at some point that's what they were thinking about.

01:09:25   But that just, you know, but it's not surprising though.

01:09:28   - It's not changing in between the time

01:09:30   that the article is being published

01:09:32   and the time of the announcement.

01:09:34   They're not changing the name behind the scenes

01:09:38   and then running out and sanding it off of--

01:09:41   - Right.

01:09:42   a bunch of boxes or whatever, reprinting a bunch of--

01:09:46   - Yeah, 3D, he says they're gonna call it

01:09:48   the 3D Touch Display, which seems reasonable,

01:09:51   because it's got some kind of force.

01:09:52   - Yeah, it's a technology that not everybody is.

01:09:57   - Yeah.

01:09:57   - Well, although, I mean, I guess it's gonna be,

01:10:00   if it's a feature that's one of the,

01:10:03   we're on the talk here, right?

01:10:06   And so they have to play up whatever they add

01:10:09   to in order to get people to go with that phone.

01:10:12   - Yeah. - So the force touch aspect

01:10:15   of it actually becomes a big deal.

01:10:18   - Yeah, yeah. - And the technology behind it

01:10:20   becomes the kind of thing that you use to sell the idea

01:10:24   of, okay, you can touch on things and you get

01:10:27   like a added functionality by the different ways

01:10:32   you press on them. - Yeah.

01:10:34   I think, though, it's interesting, and he has a couple of,

01:10:39   you know, he's written about it before,

01:10:40   And a couple of ideas that you,

01:10:43   clearly somebody who's seen what they're tinkering with

01:10:45   has spilled this to them,

01:10:48   that if you force touch on an icon on the home screen

01:10:51   that you'll get a menu of options

01:10:54   of what to do with the app,

01:10:56   or that you could jump to something within the app.

01:10:58   So you could like, just on the home screen, force touch.

01:11:01   This is an example that Germin gave you.

01:11:03   Force touch on the phone app,

01:11:05   and you'll get an option that would let you

01:11:07   jump right to voicemail,

01:11:08   so you don't have to launch the app

01:11:10   and I don't know if that's actually even easier.

01:11:14   But anyway, that's what he says.

01:11:16   But he doesn't really have a lot, though,

01:11:18   about what they're gonna do with force touch.

01:11:20   - How it's gonna work, yeah.

01:11:21   - Yeah, and it's just interesting

01:11:26   how far down the chain his sources are,

01:11:29   because somebody within Apple knows everything about it,

01:11:31   and I think that they've done, actually,

01:11:34   a reasonably good job of keeping that under wraps.

01:11:38   - There hasn't been any, you know,

01:11:41   no screenshots, no anything.

01:11:44   - So, Gorman has said though that it's both,

01:11:46   'cause you know, Apple's using this for stuff

01:11:48   in different ways, right?

01:11:49   Like, on the MacBooks, it's a physical thing

01:11:54   where you press it and it gives you this false sensation

01:12:00   that there's a physical click.

01:12:02   On the watch, it doesn't feel like it clicks,

01:12:07   It's just, it uses the--

01:12:09   - The vibration.

01:12:10   - Yeah, it uses the Taptic Engine,

01:12:12   but it doesn't feel like the screen clicks.

01:12:14   It feels like the watch itself is--

01:12:15   - Yeah, you're feeling it, right.

01:12:16   - Yeah, it just gives you a tap,

01:12:18   but it doesn't feel like the screen clicks.

01:12:20   I wonder, you know, which way,

01:12:26   and it doesn't seem clear to me from the rumors,

01:12:28   and I'm glad, I'm kind of excited to find out how it works,

01:12:30   like which way the phones are gonna work.

01:12:32   Is it just gonna be like once in a while you force tap

01:12:36   and the phone will give you a vibration

01:12:38   to let you know that yes, that registered as a phone tap,

01:12:42   which is I think what's more likely,

01:12:45   because it seems simpler,

01:12:46   or is it gonna be more like the MacBook keyboard

01:12:49   where when you click buttons on the screen,

01:12:51   it feels like the screen is clicking where you tapped it?

01:12:53   - Yeah.

01:12:54   - Which would be kind of amazing,

01:12:55   but I'm almost like that's what I'm hoping for,

01:12:57   but I almost feel like--

01:12:58   - Yeah, that's what I would hope for too.

01:13:00   - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:13:00   - But I feel like I'm hoping to hit the lottery,

01:13:04   you know what I mean?

01:13:05   I don't feel like that's a realistic hope.

01:13:07   - A realistic hope, yeah.

01:13:09   Well, that may be.

01:13:10   And I wonder if the thickness is related to that screen

01:13:13   or if the thickness is more battery.

01:13:17   - Well, but the rumor, and again,

01:13:19   we're all dependent on Germin here,

01:13:21   but I think it was Germin at least

01:13:22   who says that the batteries are actually smaller.

01:13:25   Now, that could just,

01:13:28   that they're actually fewer megawatt hours.

01:13:30   - Physically smaller.

01:13:31   Oh, oh, oh, we actually use less power?

01:13:33   - Yeah, slightly, whatever that,

01:13:34   what's the metric for batteries, megawatt hours,

01:13:36   whatever it is.

01:13:37   Those numbers that are like in the 1800, 2000 range,

01:13:43   that they're actually a little smaller in both phones.

01:13:45   But that could be though, could be the same thing,

01:13:47   that to fit the forced screen in there

01:13:50   and whatever else they're fitting in,

01:13:51   left less room for battery.

01:13:54   So they made it a little thicker so they could at least,

01:13:57   if they hadn't made it thicker,

01:13:59   then the battery would even be smaller

01:14:00   than the actual decrease that they're gonna do, right?

01:14:04   Yeah, they had to decrease the battery because of whatever the else they're putting in there

01:14:09   And if they hadn't made it a little thicker they would have had to make it even more of a drop

01:14:14   Yeah, are you in the the more battery camp because there was a big sort of

01:14:19   Surge of people within the last year who were saying enough with making them thinner. Just make the battery last longer

01:14:26   Yeah

01:14:29   Yeah, I I think if they asked me I would rather have the iPhone 7

01:14:35   Not decrease and in fact here I'm just looking at 9 to 5 Mac. There's actually a report here. Just not a German

01:14:43   It's they're reporting on

01:14:45   Ming Chi quo who knows you know, these a

01:14:48   KGI analyst over in Asia who's had pretty good supply chain sources

01:14:54   He says that next year's phone which you know would according to

01:14:59   Plans be or to tradition be the iPhone 7 is going to be as thin as the iPhone

01:15:04   iPod touches

01:15:06   That's actually been that's actually been the case all along

01:15:10   I it maybe not exactly to the tenth of a millimeter, but at least in general

01:15:14   every you know the way that after the first round the the

01:15:18   Actually even from the original even the original iPod touch was thinner than the iPhone

01:15:23   iPhones have always gotten next-generation iPhones have always been as thick as the iPod touches that came out before

01:15:30   like the current iPhone 6 is as thin as the

01:15:34   iPod touch and so when the iPod touch the current design came out, you know the one that originally came with the wristband

01:15:42   wrist strap attachment

01:15:45   That was when

01:15:47   The iPhone 5 came out and

01:15:51   I remember I've said this before I was I remember it was that so the iPhone 5 came out and was really nice

01:15:58   I think I'd still like my favorite hardware design

01:16:01   Really really nice, but it came out alongside those iPod touches and I remember at the press event

01:16:08   I was hanging around with mg ciggler and we that the table with the iPhones was super crowded three deep

01:16:14   everybody wanted to and and

01:16:17   These people on a deadline at these events are always

01:16:20   There I don't know they're very rude

01:16:22   but everybody wants to get pictures right and so when you read these reports and

01:16:28   Like from home of people at the press people at this event and they're showing pictures from the hands-on area

01:16:35   It they're usually good photos and the people taking the photos are pretty good at framing

01:16:41   but it's it's actually behind the scenes there if you're there, it's actually really like there's a lot of

01:16:49   of jostling to get everybody else's hands out of the way,

01:16:54   so that they can get a shot of just the phone

01:16:57   and make it look nice.

01:16:58   It's actually, really, I don't know.

01:17:03   I just wait.

01:17:04   I wait until it clears out and then I go over.

01:17:08   So MG and I went over to the iPod table

01:17:11   'cause it was mostly clear.

01:17:12   And we had spent a couple seconds with the iPhone 5

01:17:16   and we were both excited about it and it looks really nice.

01:17:17   And then we looked at this iPod,

01:17:19   and we're like, holy crap is this thin.

01:17:21   This blow, you know, we didn't even,

01:17:24   we didn't even get to use the new iPhone 5 yet.

01:17:26   And we were already like kinda disappointed

01:17:28   by how thick it was because these iPods are so amazing.

01:17:31   But that's how thin the iPhone 6 was two years later.

01:17:34   And so it's always been the case.

01:17:36   And now here Ming-Chi Kuo is saying

01:17:38   that next year's is gonna be as, you know, even thinner.

01:17:42   And so I, you know, that's the way Apple rolls.

01:17:47   but I'm with you, I would rather have them just say,

01:17:50   this is thin enough, and just fill it with battery.

01:17:53   - Oh, I'm actually not in that camp.

01:17:55   Well, not necessarily.

01:17:56   I get enough battery life,

01:17:57   I don't go anywhere for the most part,

01:17:59   so I have enough battery life to get through the day,

01:18:03   and then I recharge it with the watch.

01:18:05   So I don't usually have much of a problem.

01:18:08   And if I do go someplace, I'm usually driving my car,

01:18:10   I just plug it into the car.

01:18:11   - Yeah, I will say that, and I will say too,

01:18:13   I don't feel strongly about it,

01:18:14   because I'm trying to remember the last time my phone died

01:18:18   before the end of the day.

01:18:19   And it might actually be the case

01:18:23   that it was a previous iPhone,

01:18:24   that I've never once not gotten through the day

01:18:27   in the last year with my iPhone 6.

01:18:29   - I think the problem is more the incidents

01:18:33   that I have that are somehow software-caused,

01:18:36   because occasionally the phone will just inexplicably

01:18:39   start losing battery life like crazy.

01:18:42   Like one day I'll wake up and it'll just be much,

01:18:46   draining much faster than it did the previous day

01:18:48   for no apparent reason.

01:18:50   And usually just rebooting the phone clears it up.

01:18:54   Or it clears up on its own for some reason

01:18:56   that I haven't been able to fathom.

01:18:58   - Yeah. - So I think,

01:19:00   I don't know if it's managing processes better

01:19:05   or what it is, but there's some software related thing

01:19:08   that's more the problem than the battery size.

01:19:12   - Yeah, and one reason I've been able to get through

01:19:15   the year without ever one time at my phone dive

01:19:18   at the end of the day is that when I anticipate

01:19:21   that I'm gonna be using it heavily in a bandwidth

01:19:24   or in a battery draining situation,

01:19:26   like Disney World is a perfect example,

01:19:27   a day at Disney World, sorry,

01:19:29   I take a standalone Mophie pack with me,

01:19:33   and to me that's a reasonable trade-off,

01:19:35   so I don't feel strongly about it.

01:19:37   But you do think Apple's right to keep making them thinner?

01:19:41   - Well, I wouldn't, I don't know.

01:19:43   I mean, I would think what would be right

01:19:46   is what hits the most users.

01:19:49   And I don't really know which one that is.

01:19:52   One of the things that I will say though,

01:19:54   is that the only thing that I ever looked,

01:19:58   when I looked at Android phones over the years,

01:20:00   the only thing that I was ever covetous of

01:20:02   was their thinner, was the ones that were super thin.

01:20:06   And so this phone is now,

01:20:09   I mean, I feel like the six is thin enough.

01:20:11   I want it to be smaller across,

01:20:15   but I'm not gonna get that this year, it doesn't look like.

01:20:18   - I asked Schiller about that on stage, right?

01:20:20   I'm not misremembering that,

01:20:22   'cause if I didn't, I wanted to.

01:20:23   - The battery, the battery thing?

01:20:25   - Yeah. - Yes, yeah, yeah.

01:20:26   I think you did.

01:20:27   - Yeah, and I seem to recall his answer was,

01:20:32   it wasn't really a concrete, look,

01:20:34   here's a XYZ, therefore they get thinner.

01:20:37   It's more or less, you know, more or less--

01:20:40   - We're trying to do both kind of thing.

01:20:42   - Well, no, I think it was a very polite way

01:20:45   of saying that I was wrong.

01:20:46   And I believe him, you know what I mean?

01:20:48   They know, he's got access to information

01:20:51   that I don't have.

01:20:51   And I do think part of it too is it is a factor,

01:20:55   it's a lust factor, right?

01:20:57   Which is, look, they're in the business

01:20:59   of selling new iPhones.

01:21:01   That's the business, right?

01:21:03   And part of that, a huge part of that

01:21:05   is to keep iPhone users happy

01:21:08   so that they come back and buy another one.

01:21:10   And so obviously that it is a balancing act

01:21:13   'cause they don't wanna make it so crazy thin

01:21:15   that everybody's batteries die,

01:21:17   in which case, you know, people would be,

01:21:20   it would be a very likely reason

01:21:21   that would make someone switch

01:21:22   is if they really felt like

01:21:24   their battery was dying every day.

01:21:26   So they definitely wanna avoid that.

01:21:28   But I think a huge factor though

01:21:30   is that showroom appeal, right?

01:21:32   That you're in the, you go in the Apple store

01:21:34   think maybe I'll buy a new iPhone and then you see it and it fills your heart

01:21:37   with that lust and then all of a sudden you're walking you don't even remember

01:21:41   what happened you're walking out you have a new iPhone the battery streamed

01:21:45   already that's obviously that is that's that's part of the appeal right the

01:21:50   batteries did let me get to the car the the those crazy cool phones from looper

01:21:58   remember that you've seen looper right I have seen the bread I don't remember the

01:22:02   - What are the phones for though?

01:22:03   - Oh, it was just a piece of glass.

01:22:04   It was just glass.

01:22:06   Just a piece of glass, and when you,

01:22:09   it's like clear when it's off,

01:22:11   and you turn it on and the screen fills up.

01:22:14   It was like insane, literally could not be thinner.

01:22:17   You wouldn't want it thinner, unless it was like paper.

01:22:19   It couldn't be thinner unless it was

01:22:21   more like an index card than glass.

01:22:23   I think clearly that's where we're heading.

01:22:29   I don't know how we get there,

01:22:31   but thinner is unavoidable.

01:22:34   I guess what I would say is,

01:22:36   I think Apple maybe should just,

01:22:39   if they wanted my advice,

01:22:41   maybe dial back on that a little bit

01:22:43   in favor of battery life.

01:22:45   So anyway, what are we talking about, new iPhones?

01:22:51   Force Touch, 3D display, Touch Display.

01:22:55   - Better camera.

01:22:56   - Yeah, so my thought too,

01:22:58   I've said this before,

01:22:58   but my thought, if my dream comes true

01:23:00   and the taps you feel 'em when you press,

01:23:03   it would be that you can actually feel the keyboard

01:23:07   when you're typing.

01:23:08   Like, and again, that sounds to me too good to be true.

01:23:13   But boy, that would be cool if they pulled that off.

01:23:17   That would be-- - Yeah,

01:23:18   that seems awful fine.

01:23:20   - Right, right, and really fast, right?

01:23:23   'Cause it would have to, you know,

01:23:25   to be useful at all, it would have to have like no latency.

01:23:29   - Yeah.

01:23:30   Have you ever used an Android phone that vibrates when you type?

01:23:33   No.

01:23:34   Yeah, I think my Nexus, whatever.

01:23:38   I don't have the latest and greatest Nexus.

01:23:40   I have a year-old Nexus that I bought.

01:23:42   Oh, no, no, I didn't buy the Nexus.

01:23:46   I bought the Motorola one with the wooden back, whatever it's called.

01:23:49   I don't remember.

01:23:50   When you type on it, it's an option.

01:23:55   You can obviously turn it off.

01:23:57   When you type on it, it vibrates with each tap.

01:23:59   and it does a very good job of not falling behind,

01:24:04   but I just don't find it to be useful.

01:24:07   I don't know why.

01:24:09   But if it was localized right where,

01:24:12   if it felt like I was actually clicking the key

01:24:15   on the screen, that would be awesome.

01:24:18   I don't think that's possible.

01:24:19   I sure hope so.

01:24:20   What else is coming out with the phone?

01:24:23   Oh, you asked why do I think they made it thicker.

01:24:26   I guess we covered that.

01:24:28   Did you see the report, did you see the video

01:24:30   where the one guy, the baseball cap guy,

01:24:33   you know, I mean, he's like the unboxed Joe.

01:24:38   I think his name is unboxed Joe.

01:24:40   He's a YouTuber and he always wears

01:24:43   a baseball cap backwards and he's the guy

01:24:46   who kinda got the whole Ben Gate thing rolling last year.

01:24:49   When he bent, he's the guy who bent the phone with his hands.

01:24:56   somehow he procured what was claimed to be a iPhone 6s frame,

01:25:01   just the aluminum part.

01:25:06   And he had a very, you know,

01:25:09   I'm kind of ripping on him here,

01:25:11   but he had a really good video where he took it

01:25:13   to like a serious like, you know, engineering shop,

01:25:17   and they like tested the,

01:25:20   they used some kind of fancy equipment

01:25:21   to test the aluminum and sort of prove

01:25:23   it's like a it's like a new like 7,000 series aluminum right right i had heard that part

01:25:30   i had heard that part but i did not know that it came from there yeah uh unbox therapy is his name

01:25:38   okay and that's kind of i mean they did that with they improved the materials between the

01:25:42   five and the 5s as well uh yeah i think so too but yeah because my five my i had i had the space gray

01:25:49   five at scratch to hell, but not so with the Space Grade 5S.

01:25:54   - Yeah, so I'll put that in the show notes, hopefully.

01:25:58   But yeah, Unbox Therapy has an interesting video.

01:26:03   And it almost certainly is a legit,

01:26:05   I don't know how this stuff, you know,

01:26:07   somebody smoke it out of a factory in Foxconn

01:26:10   and somehow send it to him.

01:26:11   But he also stress tested it and like measured

01:26:14   how many foot pounds of force it takes

01:26:15   to actually bend the frame.

01:26:16   And it's like enormously more durable

01:26:19   than the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.

01:26:22   - I hope the iPad Pro's made out of the same stuff.

01:26:26   - Ah, I want to.

01:26:28   (laughing)

01:26:29   - You're like crazy, right?

01:26:31   - What else?

01:26:35   Gurman says that they're going to keep

01:26:37   both the 6 and the 6 Plus in the lineup.

01:26:42   You know, that, which I think makes sense.

01:26:45   I think, you know, and it's also widely reported,

01:26:49   because there's none of these supply chain links.

01:26:52   It's almost, the lack of leaks of a 6C,

01:26:57   plastic 6C, which you and I were thinking they would do

01:27:02   when we talk like a month ago.

01:27:04   Hoping they would do.

01:27:05   But I've given up all hope on that,

01:27:06   because there's no way they're gonna do that.

01:27:09   I think they're gonna do the most obvious thing possible,

01:27:11   which is what they've done.

01:27:12   Every other year other than that 5C year

01:27:14   is just move last year's phone down.

01:27:16   And the fact that there were two last year,

01:27:18   it just means there's two now this year, you know, and that you can choose the 4.7 inch or the 5.5 inch and whatever.

01:27:24   Well, maybe next year. Yeah, I don't think so. You don't think even next year really? Yeah, I've come around

01:27:37   I've changed my mind. I think that the four inch phones are gone forever.

01:27:42   Well, there was a there was even a rumor though that that they were I mean

01:27:45   this was just like a prototype, but that they had a 3.5 inch phone.

01:27:49   That they were working on. I heard that. I'm surprised. Uh,

01:27:54   I don't think so though. I just don't, I don't, I don't see them doing that.

01:27:57   I'm not surprised that they tinkered with it, but, um,

01:28:01   I don't know. I just kind of, my gut feeling now, I hope I'm wrong. I do.

01:28:07   I still do hope I'm wrong and I would love to see them come out with a new four

01:28:10   inch phone or even smaller. I probably would not buy smaller,

01:28:14   but I would be very tempted to buy a new 4 inch one that had good specs, but.

01:28:18   If I could get this year specs in a 4 inch phone,

01:28:21   I would definitely get the 4 inch phone over over the 4.7.

01:28:24   Right. I wouldn't hesitate either. I would definitely do it.

01:28:26   But I think the problem that it will obviously be that you won't get this year

01:28:30   specs you get last year's.

01:28:31   Yeah. The best that we could hope for is to, uh, to get it,

01:28:36   to get like the equivalent of a 5C.

01:28:38   A last year specs in a smaller size. Uh, they got a new,

01:28:43   supposedly a new rose gold color.

01:28:45   I don't really care.

01:28:49   I'm not surprised that the only time

01:28:54   the only time that I have been tempted by

01:28:56   or actually thought that I should have

01:28:58   gotten a different color was the.

01:28:59   Five partially because like

01:29:03   I like I said, the space gray one

01:29:04   nicked like crazy.

01:29:06   Yeah, and I also just really liked

01:29:09   that shape in the white color.

01:29:12   I know we're repeating ourselves here, but the space gray one that nicked really easily.

01:29:19   The first couple of nicks annoyed me, and then once it kind of all got scuffed up, I thought it really looked good.

01:29:25   Like in a Star Wars beat up. You know what I mean?

01:29:30   I thought in a way that your jeans looked good after you've worn them a couple times.

01:29:36   You know?

01:29:37   I don't know.

01:29:38   I thought it had like a cool, you know, I don't know.

01:29:40   I'm sure somebody at Apple is dying hearing that

01:29:45   because they don't really--

01:29:46   - It may not look like much,

01:29:47   but you just gotta work it out.

01:29:49   - I don't know that Apple was shooting for

01:29:50   it looks good scuffed up.

01:29:51   - No, I don't think so either.

01:29:53   But you know, but I still got my original iPhones

01:29:57   and they're dinged like crazy too, scuffed.

01:30:00   - What else with iPhones?

01:30:03   Is there anything else with iPhone that we expect?

01:30:06   - I don't think so.

01:30:07   I mean, I think the big stuff is other things, right?

01:30:09   I mean, this is the talk here,

01:30:11   so it's gonna be same form factor

01:30:13   and just like, you know, possibly the Siri this year

01:30:16   is the Force Touch stuff.

01:30:19   - Yeah, that's what I think.

01:30:21   I guess a wildcard would be whether there's like

01:30:24   a serious big worth bragging about improvement

01:30:26   to the camera, but I'm not really expecting that.

01:30:29   I just feel like, you know,

01:30:31   there'll be some kind of improvement,

01:30:32   whether it's megapixels or something,

01:30:34   but I don't think it'll be like a great leap forward.

01:30:38   - Yeah.

01:30:39   - I talked months ago, maybe even a year ago,

01:30:43   where I had heard from, as they say, a little birdie,

01:30:46   that Apple was working on a thing with a two-camera system,

01:30:50   which I don't really understand the physics of,

01:30:52   and I've read some pieces from people

01:30:53   speculating about how that would work,

01:30:55   and it is fascinating to me,

01:30:56   but the basic gist is that there'd be a camera,

01:30:59   a camera that has two lenses right next to each other,

01:31:02   So sort of like, I guess it would be closer though,

01:31:07   but it would just be two circles right next to each other

01:31:10   and that somehow it's like one is focusing far

01:31:14   and one's focusing near and then somehow

01:31:16   it gives amazing results in the resulting image,

01:31:19   like SLR quality photos.

01:31:22   And I think I wrote about it, not podcasted about it,

01:31:25   and I said the next iPhone.

01:31:27   And I didn't mean this year's,

01:31:31   I didn't mean that it was something for the success.

01:31:33   I meant the next iPhone like the next iPhone form factor

01:31:35   because I don't think that that sort of thing

01:31:38   they would ever do in the S year

01:31:40   because it would break the rules of the S year.

01:31:44   Like the S year rules are that the phone's supposed to fit

01:31:48   in last year's cases.

01:31:50   Which I guess is interesting if it is thicker,

01:31:52   like you said, like how many cases will still fit the phone?

01:31:56   That's interesting.

01:31:57   - Well they see, I mean, Germin seemed to think

01:31:58   that it should still fit all of it.

01:31:59   - Yeah, 'cause it's-- - So it's not that much thicker.

01:32:02   - Yeah, it sounds like it's, you know,

01:32:04   like the difference in thickness,

01:32:06   you really would have to take out calipers and measure it.

01:32:09   - Yeah. - You probably couldn't do it

01:32:10   with your hands.

01:32:11   - Do you think they're gonna have trouble

01:32:15   blowing past last year's numbers,

01:32:18   because last year's numbers were so huge,

01:32:19   and because they had a pent-up demand

01:32:23   of people who wanted a larger phone?

01:32:25   - I think that that's probably true.

01:32:28   I think, and I just feel like the anecdotal explanation

01:32:31   that you just gave, just a basic, you know,

01:32:34   lots of people had heard that they were gonna do

01:32:37   a bigger phone for long enough.

01:32:41   You know, like that rumor was over a year old.

01:32:44   And you know, it's weird.

01:32:45   It's weird the way that like regular people know

01:32:47   about Apple rumors now.

01:32:49   You know, 'cause people would ask me, you know,

01:32:52   in advance, is Apple really gonna do a bigger phone?

01:32:54   And the fact that people were asking me that was like,

01:32:56   wow, people really do want bigger phones.

01:32:59   And I think you're right,

01:33:00   that there's an awful lot of people

01:33:01   who put off buying an iPhone

01:33:04   that overly inflated last year's iPhone sales.

01:33:08   - Yeah.

01:33:09   And I think people held off long enough

01:33:13   that it's not the kind of thing

01:33:15   where the contract is gonna be the issue.

01:33:20   So it's not like, okay, well, yeah,

01:33:21   but there were those people last year,

01:33:23   but there's a whole set of new people

01:33:24   who just came off contract for this year.

01:33:26   - Yeah, I also think that there might be,

01:33:28   it might be tough to meet the sales that they did in China.

01:33:32   I don't know though, 'cause it's like they're growing

01:33:34   so fast in China, but it felt like last year was the year

01:33:36   they were, where they really exploded in China.

01:33:39   And that if there was pent up demand,

01:33:42   they sold crazy big numbers to meet them.

01:33:44   And that they might have trouble doing that,

01:33:46   but maybe I'm underestimating just how many,

01:33:49   just how many truly like, maybe like tens of millions

01:33:52   of first-time iPhone buyers that are going to expand

01:33:56   in China year after year.

01:33:57   - Yeah, that's kind of what I think will happen.

01:33:59   I mean, the economy there is a concern,

01:34:02   but it seems like they haven't topped out there yet.

01:34:05   Like, they did run up past the Xiaomi, right?

01:34:10   - Yeah.

01:34:11   - Like in the second quarter, I wanna say.

01:34:14   But they were still, I mean, they had good growth,

01:34:20   but they weren't big enough in China to that point

01:34:22   where they've actually saturated it.

01:34:25   - Yeah, and the weird thing too about the economy being weak

01:34:29   is that I think it might affect everything

01:34:32   other than phones first,

01:34:33   because phones have turned into this weird thing

01:34:36   that everybody who has one thinks is essential, right?

01:34:40   So the economy goes bad and vacation resorts suffer

01:34:45   because that's one thing people do

01:34:48   like if their investments have gone down

01:34:51   or if you're taking a pay cut

01:34:54   or if you're a small business owner

01:34:55   and the business is down,

01:34:56   you'd cut back on vacations, right?

01:34:58   Or you cut back on jewelry or, you know,

01:35:02   all sorts of things that when the economy goes bad

01:35:04   definitely suffer.

01:35:05   But I feel like phones maybe are maybe not immune to it

01:35:09   but are strong resistance to it

01:35:10   because people, even if the economy's bad

01:35:12   and you're cutting back in other areas,

01:35:14   if you need a new phone, you're still getting a new phone.

01:35:16   And if you're gonna get a new phone,

01:35:17   you're gonna get the one you want, I think.

01:35:20   So I don't know, I feel like the, you know,

01:35:24   and I thought it was really, really telling

01:35:26   that Tim Cook had that public statement to,

01:35:29   what's his name, Jimmy Cramer on CNBC the other week.

01:35:33   - That's good, he's going to jail.

01:35:36   (laughing)

01:35:39   I guess there was a concern he could get fined.

01:35:42   - I don't know, you know, Tim Cook seems like

01:35:44   such a cautious person, like Steve Jobs

01:35:46   was the type of person who, if he wanted to do it,

01:35:49   was going to do it.

01:35:49   And then he'd figure out the--

01:35:51   and infamously, really did get into trouble

01:35:53   with the backdating of the stock options.

01:35:57   That was, I guess, that was pretty bad.

01:35:59   Tim Cook is so deliberate, or at least he seems to be,

01:36:04   that I would be very surprised if that hadn't been vetted

01:36:09   by Apple's SEC compliance lawyers.

01:36:15   It just seems to me like from what I can tell

01:36:18   of Tim Cook's personality, that if he wanted to do that,

01:36:21   he called up, you know, whether it was

01:36:24   their general counsel, you know,

01:36:26   it would probably just call the general counsel guy

01:36:27   and then say, here's what I wanna do,

01:36:29   let me, you know, here's the exact thing

01:36:32   I wanna email Jim Cramer, I wanna do it tomorrow at 9 a.m.,

01:36:35   is this okay?

01:36:36   I would be very surprised if he didn't do that.

01:36:39   Now, just because one lawyer at Apple looks at it

01:36:41   and says, yeah, that's fine, that doesn't mean, you know,

01:36:43   There's been a lot of cases where one lawyer saying it's okay doesn't mean that somebody

01:36:48   can do it.

01:36:49   But I haven't seen anything that anybody's looking into it.

01:36:51   I saw just idle speculation that, you know.

01:36:56   What's the gist of the rule?

01:36:57   The gist of the rule is, it's just that, yeah, I don't know.

01:37:01   I don't know the gist of the rule.

01:37:02   Yeah, I don't know either.

01:37:03   Something about giving information, any information that you give that would be of interest to

01:37:10   some investors, you have to give to all of them.

01:37:13   Right.

01:37:14   So that there's certain--

01:37:15   That sounds right.

01:37:16   Yeah, sure.

01:37:17   Right.

01:37:17   So obviously, the worst example would

01:37:21   be if Tim Cook just called Jim Cramer up on the phone.

01:37:25   Is it just between me and you?

01:37:27   Or, well--

01:37:28   Well, yeah, OK, right.

01:37:29   Right.

01:37:29   Yeah, I mean, it's unlikely.

01:37:31   I mean, Jim Cramer is a--

01:37:32   he's not a journalist, really.

01:37:33   But he's a guy who talks about this stuff in a show.

01:37:38   So I think talking to him, it seems

01:37:41   Like he's, the point is actually to get it out there.

01:37:44   It's what's worse is when you call your buddy.

01:37:46   - Yeah, yeah, your friend, yeah.

01:37:47   - Yeah.

01:37:48   - So obviously that's what it's meant to,

01:37:51   that's what the law is in place for.

01:37:55   But that there's people who've gotten in trouble for,

01:37:58   didn't the Netflix CEO get in trouble

01:38:01   for like a blog post where he posted stuff?

01:38:04   Like his blog post wasn't officially,

01:38:07   or maybe like a tweet or something?

01:38:09   - Oh.

01:38:10   - That sounds vaguely familiar, yeah.

01:38:13   But why would a tweet not be?

01:38:16   - I forget what it was.

01:38:17   But it, well, that somehow that it,

01:38:20   there's certain forms-- - Wasn't reaching yet.

01:38:21   It wasn't considered public or something.

01:38:23   - Right, like-- - You had to opt in

01:38:25   to follow it.

01:38:26   - Right, like a press release that goes out

01:38:28   on the official press wire, which is weird

01:38:31   because it's actually, that's actually something

01:38:32   that normal people don't access, but all of the media do,

01:38:37   and it's assumed then that everybody has equal access

01:38:39   to the media, somehow that, you know, but that's okay.

01:38:42   It's just that like tweets had never been

01:38:45   okayed by the SEC before.

01:38:49   And that they're respected, well only, you know,

01:38:50   certain people have access to Twitter

01:38:52   because you have to have a cell phone and whatever.

01:38:55   - They just didn't get it.

01:38:56   - Yeah.

01:38:57   - So you wanna talk about the Apple TV?

01:39:01   - I do, but I should take a break here

01:39:04   and thank another one of our friends.

01:39:06   and this time it is our good friend, Automatic.

01:39:11   These are the guys who make the connected car adapter.

01:39:16   It's a little dongle, I love saying that word.

01:39:19   It plugs into your car's diagnostic port.

01:39:22   I think it's like every car since like 1997,

01:39:25   but it's somewhere around there.

01:39:26   It's like every car of recent vintage

01:39:27   has one of these ports, and it's a standard port,

01:39:30   which is really kind of cool.

01:39:31   Like the way that USB is a standard port

01:39:35   and HDMI is a standard port.

01:39:36   Well, there's a car diagnostic port.

01:39:38   It's underneath the dashboard somewhere on your car.

01:39:42   And that's when you go to your dealer or to the mechanic,

01:39:46   and when your car has a thing that lights up and says,

01:39:49   you're due for service A2.

01:39:53   You go in there.

01:39:53   That's what they plug their stuff into,

01:39:55   and then it tells them what it's saying,

01:39:57   that your oil filter needs replacement or whatever.

01:40:00   Well, you can access that too.

01:40:03   And that's what automatic is for.

01:40:04   It's this really cool thing.

01:40:05   You just plug it in to that diagnostic port

01:40:07   and then it uses Bluetooth to talk to their app,

01:40:11   which is on your iPhone.

01:40:12   And it just tells you,

01:40:15   so if you ever get one of those weird things

01:40:16   like service, you know, A5,

01:40:19   or I don't even know what the things are,

01:40:21   and you're worried, like what the hell does that mean?

01:40:23   Is that routine?

01:40:24   Is my car ready to break?

01:40:25   It automatically will explain to you in plain English

01:40:28   exactly what's going on,

01:40:29   and it even lets you clear the light if you want to,

01:40:31   so you don't have to get annoyed by that

01:40:32   every time you start the car up.

01:40:34   Really cool.

01:40:35   Gives you a log of your trips.

01:40:38   It uses the GPS on your phone

01:40:40   so that when you get out of your car,

01:40:43   it will remember where you were parked.

01:40:45   It's like anything, it just turns your car into a smart car.

01:40:49   Really, really cool.

01:40:50   It can even score you on your driving.

01:40:54   So if you're like me and you have a lead foot,

01:40:57   it'll just tell you, boy, you're driving too fast, John.

01:41:00   I mean, that's really what it'll do.

01:41:02   They tell you what kind of mileage you're getting, tells you if you drive in a style

01:41:05   that's getting you good mileage.

01:41:09   Just amazingly cool stuff.

01:41:11   So they've added a new thing.

01:41:12   They're calling it the App Store for your car.

01:41:15   And there's over 20 apps that are available within their thing.

01:41:18   And it allows you to use your car's data in all kinds of ways.

01:41:22   So you can hook it up to Nest so that your thermostat -- I mean, this is like -- seriously,

01:41:26   this is like science fiction stuff.

01:41:28   You can have your air conditioning turn on when you get within five miles of your house

01:41:32   or whatever you want.

01:41:34   Amazing stuff like that if you have Nest.

01:41:36   If this, then that integration with all sorts of ways to let you do stuff based automatically

01:41:42   on this smart information coming out of your car.

01:41:46   Just really great, really fun.

01:41:47   It seems like something that ought to be built into your cars, but it's actually kind of

01:41:50   cool that you can do it with automatic.

01:41:52   It's a standard port, so you don't have to depend on your car maker making an app for

01:41:57   your phone. You just use automatics and it's really good. These guys know what they're

01:42:00   doing. It's really good design and everything like that. Sounds too good to be true almost,

01:42:05   but it's great. I think it's really cool. You can check out the apps at automatic.com/apps.

01:42:11   You want to buy it. Here's the thing. It's just $100, $99.95. But you get 20% off by

01:42:20   by using this URL, automatic.com/the-talk-show.

01:42:24   Now these guys have their act together

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01:42:32   You save 20% off, that's 20 bucks.

01:42:34   So you get this thing for 80 bucks, it ships in two days,

01:42:37   and they have a 45 day return policy.

01:42:40   So 45 days later, 44 days later,

01:42:42   you say this thing's, I don't like it, it's nonsense.

01:42:45   You just send it back, you get your money back.

01:42:47   Nobody's gonna do that 'cause it's cool

01:42:48   once you have it in there.

01:42:49   I mean, yeah, your car is like, it's like you've got kit.

01:42:52   Well, except for the power boost thing.

01:42:55   It doesn't give you that.

01:42:57   So anyway, go to automatic.com/thetalkshow.

01:43:01   You'll save 20%, 80 bucks,

01:43:03   and you'll get this really cool thing for your car.

01:43:05   If you haven't bought one already, just go do it.

01:43:06   It's really cool.

01:43:07   So what else?

01:43:12   Do you think there's gonna be a Apple TV tomorrow?

01:43:15   Not tomorrow, Tuesday, Wednesday.

01:43:18   - Wednesday.

01:43:19   I sure sure it's been five years

01:43:23   Is that right remember that correctly I think that the one that

01:43:31   The I think the third the third generation is later is it's just five years in that form factor

01:43:39   Maybe yeah, but what did the third one dad? I know that it has

01:43:44   Faster and more memory, right? Yeah, and the second one. Oh, it's um, it's what is it 1080 1080p?

01:43:50   Yeah, instead of 720

01:43:52   Yeah, what's the old one only 720? I think so. Oh, well that that that's kind of gross

01:44:00   That's what I have. Yeah. Well, I well no, it's funny as I have the new Apple TV, but I have a 720p TV set

01:44:08   Which I don't mind at all. I've got seven. I've got 720 eyes. Oh, by the way, don't

01:44:13   - Don't, everybody out there, don't tell my son

01:44:16   that our TV is 720.

01:44:17   (laughing)

01:44:20   Just in case you ever mean.

01:44:22   See, the thing is, I have a really,

01:44:25   it's probably one of the most beloved possessions I have

01:44:29   is a Pioneer Plasma TV.

01:44:33   And I got 720 instead of 1080, I don't know when I bought,

01:44:37   I think I bought it in like 2006.

01:44:39   It's old, really, but I still love it

01:44:41   'cause I love Plasma.

01:44:43   I love the color of plasma.

01:44:45   And I did the math.

01:44:47   There's like a calculator where you can--

01:44:48   I got like a tape measure and measured where I sit

01:44:51   and where our TV is in our house.

01:44:53   And there's nowhere else.

01:44:55   There's no way to rearrange our TV.

01:44:56   It's like we've got one place where we can

01:44:58   put a TV in our living room.

01:44:59   And we were well within the range of--

01:45:04   you will not see the difference between 720 and 1080.

01:45:08   So I just saved the money and got the 720.

01:45:11   But what seems gross to me is having an Apple TV that

01:45:15   can't do 1080.

01:45:17   Just the thought of it.

01:45:19   Well, not gross.

01:45:20   Gross is a little long, but it just seems antiquated.

01:45:25   1080--

01:45:25   Well, they're a year apart.

01:45:27   So the most recent one was introduced in March of 2012,

01:45:31   and the prior one was March of 2011.

01:45:33   So it's not that far.

01:45:34   And I know I still have my second one upstairs on a TV

01:45:38   that we almost never will watch.

01:45:40   but it doesn't have the new software update.

01:45:43   It still has the old.

01:45:44   - Yeah, well it doesn't take it.

01:45:46   - Yeah.

01:45:46   - Right, so I've got the old interface.

01:45:50   And I had actually never even seen the new one,

01:45:52   at least not in use,

01:45:54   until I went over to Albert's the other night.

01:45:56   - Oh yeah?

01:45:57   - 'Cause he's got the--

01:45:58   - Yeah, latest and greatest.

01:46:00   - Yeah, sure, you know.

01:46:01   - I think this is,

01:46:04   I'm really excited about this for the event.

01:46:05   - Me too.

01:46:06   - Because--

01:46:07   - I've been dying for one of these forever.

01:46:08   - Okay, so we know that there's a new Apple TV,

01:46:11   and we know that they're gonna do,

01:46:14   well, we don't know, no,

01:46:15   but everybody says there's gonna be an app store for it,

01:46:18   a full SDK, and there's rumors about a new controller,

01:46:21   and we know a little bit about the controller, supposedly,

01:46:23   that it's like a touch pad, like I guess, like a Mac--

01:46:28   - It's got some physical buttons,

01:46:30   and also like a touch, some sort of touch--

01:46:32   - Yeah, like a track pad.

01:46:34   So, it's, you know, and by all the reports that I've seen,

01:46:39   I know a lot of people for so long have said,

01:46:43   whenever we speculate on new Apple TVs,

01:46:44   and I've always been going on and on,

01:46:47   they gotta get rid of this piece of shit remote.

01:46:49   They've gotta do something about this goddamn remote.

01:46:52   And everybody always says to me,

01:46:53   I know what the new, the next Apple TV remote is,

01:46:57   it's gonna be your iPhone.

01:46:58   You just use your iPhone as the remote.

01:47:00   And to me, that's a non-starter.

01:47:05   You already can use that remote app, which I don't like.

01:47:08   I know some people do.

01:47:09   I never, ever use that, other than if I

01:47:12   have to enter a password.

01:47:13   But usually when I have to enter a password,

01:47:15   it's the Wi-Fi password.

01:47:18   And you can't enter the Wi-Fi password if-- or I

01:47:21   guess you can now.

01:47:22   I think they might have done something-- or no,

01:47:24   it's a keyboard.

01:47:24   You can do a hookup, a physical Bluetooth keyboard to it.

01:47:28   which is actually a cool thing if you know about it.

01:47:32   So if you're setting up the old Apple,

01:47:34   don't buy a new Apple TV right now, by the way.

01:47:36   - You should run on buy one right now.

01:47:38   - Just to see what the first run experience is like.

01:47:40   You can hook up a Bluetooth, your Apple Bluetooth keyboard,

01:47:44   or I guess any Bluetooth keyboard to it,

01:47:45   and then enter your WiFi password that way,

01:47:47   which is a hell of a lot easier

01:47:48   than the up, down, left, right, select nonsense.

01:47:52   So iPhone is an Apple TV remote.

01:47:57   I mean, maybe they'll still have an app for it or whatever,

01:47:59   but it's no good.

01:47:59   You cannot sell a thing and then tell people

01:48:01   that you have to use--

01:48:02   - You gotta run out and buy an iPod or an iPad.

01:48:03   - A $600 iPhone.

01:48:06   And then have one that's in the living room at all times.

01:48:09   So even if a family, two parents,

01:48:14   and they both have iPhones,

01:48:17   they can't say that you have to have one of those iPhones

01:48:21   in front of the TV so that if a kid wants to watch TV,

01:48:24   one of the parents has to give up their iPhone.

01:48:26   It's crazy.

01:48:28   And you know, oh, well just buy your kid a $200 iPod Touch.

01:48:32   You can't sell a $200 remote control to a $150 box.

01:48:37   - Well the one reason, I mean other than the keypad part,

01:48:39   the one thing that I like about the remote app

01:48:42   is that the remote is always in my pocket

01:48:45   or on my wrist now.

01:48:46   Whereas you try and find one of those little things.

01:48:52   It's a fucking pain in the ass.

01:48:55   - Yeah.

01:48:55   My kid will just, you know, he turns something on, he just sits it on the couch, and then,

01:49:00   you know, five minutes later it's stuck in the cushions someplace.

01:49:03   Yeah. Hey, does your kid sit real close to the TV when he plays video games?

01:49:09   Oh, sure. Yeah.

01:49:11   So that's why I don't want Jonas to know that our TV is 720. Because A, he's young,

01:49:17   and so he's still got great eyes. Who knows for how long, given how close he sits to the TV.

01:49:25   But he sits close enough that he's absolutely positively within the range where he would be

01:49:30   able to see the difference between 720 and 1080. And I just keep waiting for him to notice.

01:49:37   Tim Cynova Yeah.

01:49:37   So I guess he's got to go over to the other kids' houses and see.

01:49:39   Tim Cynova Right. And I don't think I'm going to be able to sell him on the advantages of plasma

01:49:44   versus, you know, plasma 7. I really firmly, truly, 100% my heart believe that I like a 720p

01:49:53   the plasma and the fact that I sit far enough away,

01:49:58   always that I know that I wouldn't see the difference.

01:50:01   I mean, my one eye just screwed up anyway.

01:50:04   So there's no way I would see the difference,

01:50:06   but I know that he would 'cause he sits so damn close.

01:50:08   So when me and you were kids,

01:50:10   I guess I remember sitting close to the TV to play Atari,

01:50:13   and my parents would yell at me every time

01:50:15   and make me move back, and they'd say,

01:50:17   "You're gonna wreck your eyes."

01:50:19   And this is one of those things

01:50:22   where I filed this away in my head as,

01:50:24   they don't know anything, they don't know this,

01:50:25   they're not optometrists, you know, they don't,

01:50:28   show me the evidence that sitting close,

01:50:30   you know, I sit close to a book when I read it,

01:50:32   why can't I sit close to the TV?

01:50:34   So I filed it away in my head that when I'm a parent,

01:50:36   I'm not gonna do that.

01:50:38   And I've stuck to that, I don't,

01:50:40   I will sometimes question him and I'll say,

01:50:43   "Are you sure you wanna sit that close?"

01:50:45   - Yeah. - And he says he does.

01:50:46   - I started doing that simply because that's what I had heard

01:50:49   and then I thought, wait a minute, this is not,

01:50:51   I mean, first of all, sitting close to a cathode ray tube,

01:50:54   I think, is a little different than sitting close to--

01:50:57   [LAUGHTER]

01:50:57   Like, there's nothing-- there's not some radiation coming out

01:51:03   of that thing.

01:51:03   It's a flat-- it's just like liquid crystal.

01:51:06   It's not--

01:51:07   I'm worried I'm going to Google this after the show,

01:51:09   and it's going to say, yes, sitting close to a cathode ray

01:51:12   tube is shown-- it specifically leads to retinal detachments

01:51:16   decades later in life.

01:51:19   And like, holy shit, this is my fault.

01:51:21   - And stabbing yourself in the hand.

01:51:23   - Yeah, and stabbing yourself in the hand.

01:51:25   - Falling down the stairs.

01:51:28   - Holy shit, though, does my kid sit close to the TV

01:51:30   when he plays video games?

01:51:32   - Well, Hank's eyesight's not great,

01:51:33   so he often sits close to the TV,

01:51:35   and whatever he's playing.

01:51:39   But we put his glasses on him, and he can back up like,

01:51:44   foot.

01:51:47   Yeah, it has nothing to do with needing to sit close.

01:51:50   He just likes it.

01:51:51   So I don't know.

01:51:52   Well, that's why-- yeah, I think that's why I always did too.

01:51:56   Yeah.

01:51:56   Well, it fills your field of vision.

01:51:58   Right.

01:51:59   Right.

01:51:59   You want to immerse yourself in that experience.

01:52:01   Right.

01:52:02   Effectively, you have a bigger display that way.

01:52:04   Especially, I think-- yeah, and especially with games,

01:52:07   which are an experience.

01:52:08   It's-- you know.

01:52:09   Anyway.

01:52:09   Which is funny, because now I see--

01:52:11   the way that our living room is arranged,

01:52:13   the couch really has to be a certain distance,

01:52:17   from the television and I've sat on the couch and held my iPad up and my iPad is closer you know is

01:52:25   filled feels more a larger area than the TV and the TV is not small it's 42 inches it's not huge

01:52:31   either but it's but it's it's pretty big yeah and yet if I if I have my iPad it's actually a better

01:52:39   option hmm interesting but I'll have a new T on the new Apple TV something

01:52:46   yeah but anyway new remote for the Apple TV but nobody really knows anything

01:52:57   about what this is gonna be like which is super cool to me like you know what

01:53:02   is the basic gist of the like really in my opinion we don't really know much

01:53:07   more than we knew that blah blah blah Apple's gonna make a phone. I guess we know a little

01:53:11   more because we know that this remote is supposedly like a little touch pad and we didn't even

01:53:16   know the iPhone had a touch screen before the iPhone came out. But it's close to that

01:53:21   level of who knows what they're gonna do and what the interface is gonna be like. I don't

01:53:28   know, I'm really excited. I'm really hoping that they've got a big wow in store. And I

01:53:35   - I wrote about this last week.

01:53:37   I think the stakes are higher for them with this

01:53:39   than with the watch.

01:53:41   I think that the watch, I think this needs,

01:53:43   that they need to do a better job with this

01:53:46   than they did with the watch.

01:53:48   And that the stakes are higher.

01:53:50   'Cause if it's a mediocre product,

01:53:52   I feel like it's not gonna do as well as they need it to do.

01:53:57   And it gets back to what I said a while ago on the show

01:54:05   we were talking about watches, that the watch kind of,

01:54:07   because it piggybacks on the phone,

01:54:09   if you have an iPhone and you wanna get a smartwatch,

01:54:11   you're gonna get an Apple Watch.

01:54:13   And so they've got like a home field advantage there.

01:54:15   Whereas there's a little bit of that with the Apple TV

01:54:18   where if you're in the ecosystem,

01:54:20   if you already have an iTunes account,

01:54:23   but everybody has an iTunes account, right?

01:54:25   I mean, who doesn't have, I guess kids,

01:54:27   you know, teenagers who've never gotten into buying music,

01:54:30   but you know, anybody who's an adult has an iTunes account.

01:54:34   And if you've already bought a bunch of movies and TV shows,

01:54:37   there's some motivation there to get an Apple TV.

01:54:40   But to me, it's nowhere near as tied to that.

01:54:44   If you own an iPhone, even if you own an iPhone

01:54:46   and an Apple Watch and you have a MacBook,

01:54:49   there's nothing stopping you from buying a Rock You

01:54:51   or any of these other boxes.

01:54:53   - And many, I mean, most of the nerds that I know anyway

01:55:00   have multiple boxes.

01:55:02   - Yeah, but I kind of feel like the race is on

01:55:05   to make the box, right?

01:55:07   And it doesn't necessarily,

01:55:09   even if you're a really staunch fan of Apple stuff,

01:55:12   that doesn't mean it's going to be the Apple TV

01:55:15   unless the Apple TV is great.

01:55:17   It has to be great for it to succeed.

01:55:19   - Yeah.

01:55:20   - That's the only, and that's exciting to me.

01:55:22   Whereas I feel like with the watch,

01:55:24   the watch didn't have to be great for it to succeed.

01:55:27   Pretty good, if it is pretty good, it'll do pretty good.

01:55:32   Whereas I feel like with Apple TV if it's only pretty good. It's not even gonna do pretty good in terms of sales

01:55:36   Yeah, like it really has to be great

01:55:39   so the one of the key other key features other than the

01:55:43   The remote is supposedly universal search

01:55:48   Which has been problematic on that thing forever because it's like you want to watch something

01:55:54   But you don't know where it's available. Right you think so you think they're gonna do that

01:55:58   Well, that's one of the things that they're talking. I mean, that's I hope so

01:56:02   I certainly hope so and then you know and then tying Siri into that, you know find me that'll start electric or whatever

01:56:08   right find me six feet deep something, you know and

01:56:11   Serious as you can get it here or here or here. Yeah, or it's streaming over here. I mean, you know, it seems like those guys

01:56:19   They have to tie into it. So I don't know maybe it's a difficult sell because a lot of them don't necessarily want to

01:56:28   Be in that level of competition

01:56:30   You know because it really it really kind of could can screw you if your deal isn't quite as good as somebody else's

01:56:36   And and it seems like the apps

01:56:41   Need to hook into that and I mean well

01:56:44   Yeah, I mean, it's obvious the apps have to hook into that in order to be able to

01:56:47   Allow them to do that

01:56:49   I I think though that most would or at least like the enough of the big ones would write the ones who are already

01:56:56   Partners with Apple. Mm-hmm. So for example, that's just

01:56:59   Netflix Hulu HBO just to name a couple of them right there. So and again

01:57:06   Apple TV to date has been what I think that they thought they were gonna the the the no App Store camp thought they would do

01:57:13   With the iPhone where they have these partners and there's you know now there at this point

01:57:18   There's lots and lots of channels or apps or whatever you want to call them on the current Apple TV

01:57:23   But they're all done in partnership. There's no way like so and so for example the conspicuous absent is

01:57:29   Conspicuously absent is Amazon. So if you have Amazon Prime you need another box you can't you know, there's no way to do it now

01:57:36   Whereas once this App Store comes out presumably

01:57:40   Amazon will be able to write an Amazon app for the Apple TV and even if Apple and Amazon never

01:57:45   You know work out their own special deal

01:57:48   they'll just be in the App Store in the same way that you can watch Amazon Prime on your iPad and so is it your view

01:57:54   that

01:57:55   It's Apple controlling that it rather than Amazon not wanting to be on the Apple TV. Oh, I I think so

01:58:01   I yeah, I think that I'm guessing that Amazon would but I think I think that the way that the two companies don't like each other

01:58:07   You know, yeah, and I assert that it was the other way around that

01:58:10   they Amazon simply wanted you to go out and buy a fire stick but I

01:58:14   Don't think so because boy you can get Amazon and just about every other box if you yeah if you yeah, it's right

01:58:19   I'm not sure that you can even find a box that doesn't have Amazon

01:58:23   Yeah, maybe talked about it. We talked about this on the rebound and Dan pointed that to me too. And so I was

01:58:27   Thinking yeah, it's probably it was probably wrong. Yeah, I think so

01:58:31   I think it's Apple though, but it's certainly on enough that it's it's there. I think we have it on our TiVo

01:58:37   It's really weird. I don't know what the hell kind of crap

01:58:40   You write these apps on for TiVo like when you when you switch to the we have a really new TiVo - it's it's like the

01:58:47   top-of-the-line job II

01:58:49   When you launch the Amazon thing it's like the screen like zaps out

01:58:55   Like almost like the TV went off

01:58:58   And I don't know it just feels like it was I might even be right I

01:59:06   I might not even be making this up that it's like written in like shockwave or something like that

01:59:09   Oh my god, it really feels like it and it's not it's not high def. It's it's a standard death picture so bad

01:59:16   Anyway, though. I don't think I would have a hard time at all

01:59:20   at least with like people who they would want to promote on stage like Netflix and Hulu and and

01:59:27   HBO

01:59:29   To get them to to open up the search, right? Why wouldn't you want why wouldn't Netflix want that?

01:59:35   I mean, I mean, there's certainly no reason Netflix wouldn't want it. That's for sure.

01:59:40   Yeah. Yeah. Because everything is free. It's no additional cost anyway. It's just I would,

01:59:47   you know, like Amazon, like if it's the difference between, although Amazon probably sells all

01:59:52   that stuff for less than Apple does.

01:59:54   It seems so. The universal search thing, I know he's talked about it in one of the shows

02:00:00   he's on a million times, but like it just, every time it happens to me, I always think

02:00:04   Merlin, Merlin man, because I just know it's the sort of thing that just drives

02:00:08   Merlin crazy, you know, like, so let's say you sit down with your family and you're

02:00:12   gonna, you've agreed to watch Caddyshack or whatever, pick a family, you know, good

02:00:17   family movie like that, and you search for Caddyshack, but you have to search

02:00:23   and you were like, let's watch it for free in Netflix, and you go to Netflix

02:00:27   and it ends up Netflix doesn't have Caddyshack, but you've just been...

02:00:31   - And you sat there typing it in on the remote.

02:00:34   - Right, this ridiculous little up, down, left, right remote

02:00:37   that is not even using Bluetooth.

02:00:39   You have to point the goddamn infrared ring at the thing.

02:00:42   And then you get all the way and then do this.

02:00:44   And it ends up they don't have Caddyshack.

02:00:46   And then you go back and you go,

02:00:48   and then you have to start the search again

02:00:51   in the iTunes store to get it from iTunes.

02:00:55   You have to type it all over again.

02:00:56   It doesn't even, you know, there's not like a universal

02:01:00   search memory or something like that.

02:01:02   So the idea that you could just say,

02:01:04   find me Caddyshack and it'll show you all of your options,

02:01:07   you know, for how to watch Caddyshack right now,

02:01:09   including just hit here and you can start streaming it

02:01:12   for free on Netflix, would be fantastic.

02:01:16   In fact, I almost feel like it has to do that.

02:01:18   Like if it doesn't do that, I think that's--

02:01:20   - Yeah, I think if it doesn't do that,

02:01:21   it's gonna be kind of a disappointment.

02:01:22   I know that the, I mean, the Amazon device

02:01:25   does that to a certain degree,

02:01:26   but I think it kind of prioritizes Amazon's offering.

02:01:30   So like if it's free someplace else,

02:01:32   their stuff still shows up like, hey, you can get it here.

02:01:34   - Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's does that too.

02:01:37   If the iTunes offering is first.

02:01:39   But yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know.

02:01:42   I'll hit down, I'll swipe down a couple of times

02:01:44   to watch it for free.

02:01:46   - Sure.

02:01:47   - And I feel like in general,

02:01:52   because it's been so long since they've had

02:01:55   serious update to Apple TV, I feel like we're actually being reasonable by demanding a lot of this

02:02:01   Yes, I completely agree

02:02:05   Like in general I tried to be reasonable in my expectations, you know

02:02:09   And and you know that the whole idea that you know, I famously I you know

02:02:13   It's you're gonna have we're gonna see at least 50 articles by the end of the week that say

02:02:20   There's not enough in the iPhone 6s to make people upgrade from the Apple.

02:02:27   Right, there's not enough reasons to upgrade from last year's iPhone. Therefore, it's a failure.

02:02:32   Whereas the whole point is normal people don't upgrade. They don't buy a new phone every year.

02:02:37   You know, I feel though that, you know, with the Apple TV,

02:02:41   it really does have to be enough that makes everybody who already has an Apple TV want to upgrade.

02:02:45   Yeah.

02:02:48   yeah, and I mean so it's been three and a half years since the most recent one and

02:02:54   That was only like a kind of a bump from the previous one. Yeah, it's just a so it's yeah, really

02:03:01   Yeah, well, you know the picture the picture is nicer too. But yeah, and I know other than that

02:03:04   Right. It's not that much

02:03:06   It's the same basic concept and infrared remote that goes up down left right select play pause and and that you just

02:03:13   Sit there and move up down left move a selection up down left right around the screen full of apps

02:03:18   and then when you go in there, it's the same thing.

02:03:22   Gotta be able to, they gotta do something new.

02:03:25   I think they're gonna pull it off.

02:03:27   This is the other interesting thing to me,

02:03:29   is that I've detected an awful lot of,

02:03:32   I guess pessimism, or almost like,

02:03:37   we've been so disappointed and limited by what Apple TV is

02:03:42   for so long that there's an awful lot of people

02:03:44   who it seems to me don't really have

02:03:46   high expectations for this.

02:03:48   I don't know. I could be wrong about that. I don't know if you've noticed that.

02:03:51   That there's an awful lot of people who really think that this is going to be...

02:03:56   They just don't think Apple TV is ever going to be good.

02:04:01   Because it hasn't been good.

02:04:02   Yeah, well I think one of the big concerns was that it seems like the hard part is striking the deals.

02:04:10   And a lot of people were also just expecting Apple to come up with their own streaming service.

02:04:15   Their own television streaming server, you know, yeah

02:04:18   television media whatever I mean still along the lines of Netflix, I guess and

02:04:24   That that would be a key feature of it and that if they were able to do it

02:04:30   They would have done it a long time ago and they haven't done it

02:04:32   So that means that they're not able to do it. So it's not gonna happen. Hmm

02:04:35   I don't feel like that that's I mean, I think that would be nice if they were able to do something

02:04:40   That's better, but I still think that they could introduce a device that's really good without having to do that

02:04:45   I mean if it has that global search functionality, I think that would work almost as well.

02:04:53   I think they need to do that.

02:04:54   I think though at a fundamental level what I really think they need to do, I really think

02:05:00   that they need to do it and I really hope that they have, is they really need to make

02:05:07   the basic interaction with the TV awesome.

02:05:11   that you actually feel like you're having fun

02:05:14   just by choosing which thing to pick.

02:05:18   'Cause that's really fundamentally what they did

02:05:19   with the iPhone, where cell phones were always these things

02:05:24   that were really junky, and they had buttons

02:05:27   that were like, just didn't feel good,

02:05:30   and these weird little Java applets that they called games

02:05:34   that were always super high in latency,

02:05:37   and the type of games that adults play,

02:05:42   just to waste two minutes.

02:05:44   It would never, ever interest a kid

02:05:46   who had a Nintendo, like a Game Boy.

02:05:48   In the way that Game Boys have always been,

02:05:52   since the first one, really responsive, fun,

02:05:55   top-notch little gadgets, Apple did that to the phone.

02:05:59   They took this thing that was across the board,

02:06:01   no matter which brand you bought,

02:06:03   was a crap experience and brought it all the way forward to this is an awesome

02:06:09   experience and there's no latency and the screen you know it it scrolls

02:06:13   exactly one-to-one with your fingers as you touch and when you touch something

02:06:17   you don't have to wait for it to respond it responds a second you know just like

02:06:20   a physical item they need to make the TV like that so that when you're sitting

02:06:23   there moving your thumb around the remote or whatever you're gonna do that

02:06:26   it's but just fun like it just feels fun just to interact with your TV and that

02:06:31   and a perfect Bluetooth connection

02:06:35   from the remote to the TV.

02:06:37   So there's never any latency,

02:06:38   and you're never moving your finger around

02:06:40   and nothing is happening.

02:06:42   And when you select something,

02:06:45   it needs to launch right away,

02:06:47   and you're right in there,

02:06:48   and it's like the iPhone.

02:06:51   'Cause so much of what frustrates me

02:06:53   with everything, really,

02:06:56   I mean everything I've ever hooked up to my TV,

02:06:58   It's just that stuff never seems to respond fast enough.

02:07:02   - Yeah.

02:07:03   - The best device I have is a TiVo by far, just in general,

02:07:08   just because the newest one does have a Bluetooth remote,

02:07:11   not infrared.

02:07:12   It is pretty good, and the latency isn't that bad.

02:07:16   And I don't think the latency is between the remote

02:07:19   and the TiVo.

02:07:19   I think it's just that the TiVo itself has always had

02:07:22   sort of a notoriously slow interface.

02:07:26   And this is the thing, I know Syracuse has gone on and on about this and I share it and

02:07:30   I feel like I wouldn't even have the longing in my heart if I didn't own a TiVo forever.

02:07:35   The one thing TiVo has always done really, really well, I mean going back to like my

02:07:41   first one in like 1999 or 2000 is that when you're playing video, you can fast forward

02:07:47   and rewind and it's perfect.

02:07:51   In fact, it's almost like they're too smart.

02:07:53   I find that they do, like when you fast forward

02:07:57   through commercials and you see the show

02:07:59   and you hit play, it goes back a little bit

02:08:02   because that's when you've hit play

02:08:04   is when you've seen that the show's back on.

02:08:06   They go back too far.

02:08:08   Like my reactions, my, what do you call it?

02:08:12   Motor skills, I don't know.

02:08:17   - Okay.

02:08:18   - I'm quick enough. - Yeah, I mean, well, yeah.

02:08:19   - I'm quick enough.

02:08:20   - Hand-eye coordination, reaction time?

02:08:22   Yeah, my reaction time is fast enough that they actually help me too much and then I

02:08:25   see the last 10 seconds of the commercial I just skipped.

02:08:29   But the fast-forwarding video on Apple TV and rewinding is garbage.

02:08:34   It is so bad.

02:08:37   And in some cases, like with the streaming stuff, it doesn't even show it to you.

02:08:41   It just goes black.

02:08:42   Right.

02:08:43   Right.

02:08:44   Because it's got to buffer all that stuff before it can do that and if you're going

02:08:46   far enough, you're going to go past the buffer.

02:08:50   Right.

02:08:51   like I really want, somebody's going to do it eventually.

02:08:54   And it's the sort of thing that Apple cares about.

02:08:57   So I hope it's, you know, I hope it's Apple,

02:08:59   and I hope it's coming this week,

02:09:00   is that to get it so that, you know,

02:09:03   fast forwarding and rewinding video is as good as it can be.

02:09:07   Or closer, you know, at least it's more like

02:09:10   that first iPhone, and the first iPhone,

02:09:12   you know, by today's standards, actually wasn't low latency.

02:09:15   And now it feels like it's laggy.

02:09:17   But at the time, it was a revelation.

02:09:20   So at least I would, I demand it.

02:09:25   And I will call for Tim Cook's resignation

02:09:27   if I don't get it.

02:09:29   I wanna be able to fast forward and rewind video

02:09:31   and have it feel like it's a good experience.

02:09:34   - You're throwing that in kinda late.

02:09:37   He's gotta get that done by Wednesday?

02:09:39   I don't think that's gonna happen.

02:09:41   - Funny.

02:09:44   - I mean, one of the things which I find kinda odd

02:09:46   about these rumors is that some are saying

02:09:49   that there are going to be two

02:09:51   that are going to have two

02:09:51   different memory sizes.

02:09:53   Like there's like an eight gigabyte

02:09:55   and a 16 gigabyte, which I

02:09:56   I don't believe that because

02:09:59   I don't think they're going to be able

02:10:01   to make people understand why.

02:10:03   And it just seems like a weird thing

02:10:05   to do for those devices.

02:10:06   And I feel like the smart

02:10:08   thing to do would be, well, you know,

02:10:10   they don't do this with the phones,

02:10:11   but to do the 16 gigabyte

02:10:13   and don't just don't

02:10:14   well, get to do the 16 gigabyte.

02:10:17   And if you want to charge

02:10:18   more charge more don't screw around with an 8 gigabyte one if that's if you're

02:10:21   gonna have to yeah and rather than have two tiers just get them just do the

02:10:25   bigger one and I know that most video and for some services all of it really

02:10:31   most of it that you see it's streaming is the thing now rather than downloads

02:10:35   right but it if you're gonna have games at all I mean games take up space and I

02:10:45   I know it's not going to be like a PS4 or an Xbox type gaming thing, you know, it's we already know

02:10:51   It's got like an a8. I mean that's just common sense

02:10:53   You don't even have to read rumor sites to know it's gonna have like an a system on a chip

02:10:57   And so we know that basically the you know, the capabilities of that

02:11:00   It's not gonna be like a graphics powerhouse, but that's no reason that it couldn't have good games, you know, like mm-hmm

02:11:05   like good

02:11:08   Nintendo style games right casual

02:11:10   Yeah, I

02:11:13   I just can't see why they would cheap out on 8 versus 16 if you could easily fill it

02:11:19   up, right?

02:11:20   Yeah.

02:11:21   I also think it's just confusing to offer two different sizes.

02:11:23   Yeah, I think so too.

02:11:26   I think that...

02:11:27   I mean, I know people understand that you want to download a lot of apps, you got to

02:11:30   get a bigger phone, but I don't think...

02:11:33   Yeah.

02:11:34   Marketing-wise, it seems so much easier to just say, "Buy the new Apple TV $149."

02:11:41   That's it.

02:11:42   That's it.

02:11:43   new Apple TV or not get one and be a loser and that's it.

02:11:47   Like just that one level of do you want eight or sixteen

02:11:55   gigabytes instantly makes the decision to buy so much more complicated and I

02:11:59   really do think that they know I think Apple knows that that complication

02:12:03   results in some people saying I don't know what to get so I'm not gonna get

02:12:06   one. Yeah. And I really think that they would sell I'm convinced that they would

02:12:12   sell more boxes and make more money just by giving one with 16 gigabytes and to

02:12:18   everybody then they would with two you know even if they could save some money

02:12:22   on it I really do I think they would make more money because I think that

02:12:25   that complexity would just drive people nuts right and I you know I don't know

02:12:30   it just seems crazy yeah I wouldn't think that would be that doesn't sound

02:12:34   like them but I hope at least I hope it's not them yeah I wonder though with

02:12:41   games. I think about that though with like just how limiting would even 16 gigabytes be

02:12:48   because it seems like an awful lot of games are you know measuring the gigabytes already.

02:12:55   And you can't just you can obviously you know delete an app and then re-download it later but

02:13:02   even with fast internet it's like downloading a two gigabyte game again because you deleted it a

02:13:07   couple weeks ago but now you're in the mood to play it again is a pain in the ass.

02:13:10   Yeah, I think the Xbox was the I think the sizes were like 32 gigabytes and then 200.

02:13:17   Yeah, I don't know something like that. Yeah, I mean, I think the difference was was huge

02:13:20   and it was kind of like, well, maybe you want to use it just for doing TV and maybe a couple of

02:13:26   games or you're like a real serious gamer. Yeah. But, you know, that's that's twice as or, you know,

02:13:33   the smaller ones twice as much as. Do you think do you think they're going to do like a home

02:13:40   kit push with Apple TV?

02:13:45   I don't know if they're ready for that yet.

02:13:46   I mean, I think maybe it would get a mention and that it--

02:13:50   I think that that's a long-term plan.

02:13:53   Right, but maybe not part of this week's announcement.

02:13:55   Yeah, but maybe not part of this week's announcement.

02:13:57   Because it seems like we're on kind of a slow build

02:14:00   to that stuff.

02:14:00   And I don't know that--

02:14:02   I mean, unless they've worked something out with somebody

02:14:04   else, that there's really like a compelling thing where you're

02:14:08   going to be standing up out of your chair to applaud.

02:14:12   But I think that the basic idea--

02:14:15   and it makes sense to me, but the basic idea

02:14:18   is that Apple TV could and ultimately should be like this

02:14:24   always on, even if it's in some low power mode, always on,

02:14:29   always connected to the internet,

02:14:31   and always available from everywhere sort of smart thing

02:14:36   that's in your house so that you could do things,

02:14:38   like the Nest type things,

02:14:40   somehow it would be like this thing

02:14:43   that you could connect to and have your lights turned on

02:14:46   or have the air conditioning turn on

02:14:48   at a certain schedule or stuff like that.

02:14:51   I don't know.

02:14:52   But I don't know that there's anything

02:14:55   that they've got stuff, like you said,

02:14:56   like an ecosystem in place to really make it

02:15:00   a central part of this week's announcement.

02:15:02   - Yeah.

02:15:03   - Yeah, I mean, there's some speculation

02:15:06   about them making their own stuff,

02:15:08   but we certainly haven't heard any rumors

02:15:10   of what that might be, so it doesn't seem

02:15:13   like it would be coming.

02:15:14   - Yeah, let me take a break.

02:15:16   I have one more sponsor thing,

02:15:18   and then we'll wrap up the show with our final thoughts

02:15:20   about what else might be coming at the show.

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02:16:50   Because they have so many hard drives

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02:18:39   Go sign up.

02:18:40   Back up your crap.

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02:18:47   Anyway, what else do you think of the show?

02:18:49   I don't think iPads are coming.

02:18:51   I know Germin says--

02:18:52   - Oh, you don't think the iPad Pro's coming?

02:18:54   - Yeah, I'm gonna go, I'm not going on,

02:18:58   I'm not gonna make a bet.

02:18:58   Here's what I will say this.

02:19:00   Honest to God, Jon, nobody has told me anything

02:19:02   about the event, so I don't have any inside birdies

02:19:04   or information about it.

02:19:05   I don't want it, I don't wanna know.

02:19:07   I wanna be surprised.

02:19:08   It's just my gut feeling.

02:19:10   My gut feeling is that they're gonna do

02:19:11   the exact same thing they've done in years past

02:19:13   and have an iPad event, a smaller event in October,

02:19:18   and they'll do iPads and new, maybe like the new iMac

02:19:22   with the 4K display on the 21 inch screen.

02:19:25   And talk about El Capitan.

02:19:29   There's a pattern to the way they do these things.

02:19:32   And the October event is usually,

02:19:36   or has been the last few years,

02:19:37   new iPads and some new Mac news, like, and showing off.

02:19:42   And I feel like a lot of people in the press

02:19:44   forget just how simple Apple does things

02:19:48   and how they often repeat themselves.

02:19:49   So they'll show off El Capitan

02:19:51   and all the features they're gonna show

02:19:53   are the same ones that they showed at WWDC in June.

02:19:56   And they do this and people are like,

02:19:57   why did they do that?

02:19:58   Because we already knew all this stuff.

02:20:00   They showed us that in June.

02:20:01   Because they just want normal people

02:20:04   to know about these features.

02:20:05   And the way you communicate with people

02:20:08   who aren't hyperactive news junkies

02:20:10   is you repeat yourself multiple times, right?

02:20:12   It's like running for office.

02:20:14   Why do politicians keep saying the same things

02:20:16   over and over again while they're getting elected?

02:20:17   'Cause that's how you get your message across.

02:20:19   So they'll just review what's new in El Capitan.

02:20:22   I don't see how they do all that in one event next week,

02:20:24   if they're gonna do this big new Apple TV.

02:20:27   - Right, and I'm hoping they're gonna talk about

02:20:31   when the WatchOS 2 is coming.

02:20:34   - I think they're gonna do that at next week's event.

02:20:36   This is what I think.

02:20:37   - This, you mean Wednesdays?

02:20:39   - Wednesday, this week.

02:20:40   - Yeah, no, that's what I meant.

02:20:41   - Yeah, so this is what I think they're gonna do Wednesday.

02:20:43   I think it's gonna be exactly like last year's event.

02:20:48   There'll be three, well, meaning three things.

02:20:50   First will be the new iPhones,

02:20:52   and it'll probably be Schiller again,

02:20:53   exactly like last year.

02:20:54   Phil Schiller will come out and he'll tell us all about

02:20:57   the new iPhone 6S and 6S Plus, and Force Touch,

02:21:02   and whatever else they have to talk about,

02:21:04   and how it all works,

02:21:06   and here's when they're gonna be available,

02:21:08   and I guarantee it's gonna be like 10 days later

02:21:10   or nine days later on Friday, the week after.

02:21:15   What'll that be, Friday the 18th?

02:21:18   Then part two, now last year part two was Apple Pay.

02:21:23   This year's part two, I'll bet, is Apple Watch.

02:21:27   And it'll be about everything new with a Watch 2.0.

02:21:31   And I think I said this on the show a couple weeks ago,

02:21:34   but I wouldn't be surprised if they came out

02:21:37   with new bands for the holiday season.

02:21:40   And I think probably Germin again,

02:21:43   somebody this week had a rumor

02:21:44   that they're gonna do new bands,

02:21:46   new sport bands at least.

02:21:47   Just to have something new to show

02:21:51   and new to sell for the holidays

02:21:54   and maybe based on now that they have actual sales data,

02:21:58   they know which existing bands are popular.

02:22:01   - Right. - They can do

02:22:02   something like that.

02:22:03   So it's a way to have new hardware to show without new stuff.

02:22:06   But then they'll just review all of the watch 2.0 features

02:22:09   that they showed at WWDC.

02:22:11   But then they'll say here, and here's when it'll be,

02:22:14   here's when the update will be available.

02:22:16   - Yeah.

02:22:17   - And then, I don't know if they'll do one more thing,

02:22:20   but then there will be one more thing,

02:22:22   and it'll be Apple TV.

02:22:24   And Apple TV will fill that third and final spot

02:22:27   that Apple Watch played last year,

02:22:31   and they're gonna have a lot to show,

02:22:33   because it's all new, it's radically new.

02:22:35   And there's probably gonna be like partners there.

02:22:39   Like, I don't know if they'll have Netflix or HBO again.

02:22:42   - That could take a long time.

02:22:43   - That could, it should take a long time.

02:22:45   I don't see, after what I've just said, those three things,

02:22:49   I don't see how there's any time left for iPads.

02:22:53   - Yeah, and they might even wanna talk business.

02:22:57   You know what I mean?

02:22:58   Given the concern over the Chinese economy,

02:23:00   they might just wanna say, hey, we're doing really well.

02:23:04   here's how many iPhones we sold,

02:23:07   and here's an update on whatever.

02:23:08   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what,

02:23:10   and you know what, and to get around not giving numbers,

02:23:13   one thing I don't think there's any law against

02:23:14   is here's photographs of one of our new stores in China,

02:23:19   and it's jam-packed with people buying things.

02:23:22   - Here's a chart with a line going up

02:23:25   with no numbers on it.

02:23:26   - A Bezos chart.

02:23:27   - Right. - Here's a Bezos chart.

02:23:29   Unlabeled axes.

02:23:32   It really there's those I don't know if they should be called Bezos charts or New

02:23:38   Yorker charts because it's like you know how like there's like like the every single New

02:23:43   Yorker cartoon is either two guys on an island or it's a guy in a suit with a chart either going

02:23:49   up or down. Right? Yeah, if they are yeah. So that makes a lot of sense. I think that makes a

02:23:57   lot of I just don't and there's and so then and then I mean the other thing is

02:24:00   like the iPad Pro if that's what whatever it's gonna be assuming that's

02:24:05   what it is it's kind of a thing that they need to talk about for a while I

02:24:10   mean it's a new it's a whole new form factor and supposedly it's coming with

02:24:15   like a stylus and keyboards and I mean that's so that's a lot to talk about

02:24:20   there too so and and if they're gonna do a refreshed mini which is what the what

02:24:28   the rumor is and and not do a refresh or at least not do a significant refresh of

02:24:32   the air that seems like that might be enough to fill a whole keynote I really

02:24:39   do especially and especially with a review of El Capitan and if they don't

02:24:43   have a separate oh so I'm sorry so you were saying the El Capitan when would be

02:24:47   October one? Yes. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Okay. No, I misunderstood you. I think next week is,

02:24:53   I, this week, I guess, this week, iPhone, Apple Watch 2.0, and an update on, you know,

02:25:00   the amazing things people are doing with their Apple Watches, and then Apple TV, and then that's

02:25:05   it. That's two hours right there. Yeah, that's easily. Or even not, even if it isn't two hours,

02:25:09   even if it's only 90 minutes or 95 minutes, it doesn't leave enough time to do the rest,

02:25:15   And I don't think they want to do that.

02:25:16   I don't think they want to do too much at once.

02:25:19   Why wouldn't they just have a second event

02:25:20   to spread out the publicity?

02:25:22   Why in the world would they want to just

02:25:24   have all this stuff at once?

02:25:25   And if there's an iPad Pro, if,

02:25:29   I don't, again, I don't like,

02:25:31   I'm trying to get away from knowing stuff.

02:25:33   I don't want to know the secrets anymore.

02:25:34   I want to be surprised.

02:25:35   So I don't know.

02:25:36   I have nobody on the inside who has ever said anything

02:25:39   to me about an iPad Pro.

02:25:40   Makes sense to me though,

02:25:41   and there's an awful lot of smoke.

02:25:43   You know, where there's smoke, there's fire.

02:25:44   an awful lot of smoke that they're doing it,

02:25:46   I think you're right that that's gonna be like,

02:25:50   hey, we need to take time, that's a whole segment

02:25:53   of an event to tell you why we're doing this.

02:25:55   - Yeah, there's a fair amount of explanation

02:25:58   that needs to go on there, I think.

02:26:00   - Right, and I think--

02:26:00   - 'Cause who's it for?

02:26:03   - Well, I think it, you know, what I think is interesting

02:26:07   about the iPad Pro, really interesting,

02:26:10   is, that's a great question, and the reason I think

02:26:12   It's great is I think it's for Tim Cook not only Tim Cook

02:26:16   but in the way that like Steve Jobs like

02:26:18   had them make the phone that he wanted and he knew that lots of other people would want it too, but it was like I

02:26:24   the way that Tim Cook talks about iPad and the way he

02:26:28   Says so many times that he does so much of his work on iPad and that he's you know doing this big push

02:26:34   personally into the enterprise with the you know the IBM deal

02:26:39   Just see this thing there. He was on stage at a Cisco event

02:26:42   At the end of August. Yeah. Well, I heard that. Oh, I didn't realize he was on stage

02:26:47   I heard that they were doing it. They were also looking up to do with thing about

02:26:51   Getting I it was into the end of the enterprise was it more about I forget exactly

02:26:57   It was last Monday and I don't think it was strong. No. Okay. So this was more recent. Yeah

02:27:02   It was a huge event in Vegas

02:27:05   it was like that some kind of big Cisco conference with you know, and it was like in the

02:27:09   The MGM Grand like the arena where all the big fights are like the Mayweather fight and stuff like that like a thousands

02:27:16   Without, you know, six to ten thousand seat arena. I don't know not the can't take a fight. No, not the kids

02:27:22   It wasn't a Denny's

02:27:33   No, but he made an unannounced surprise appearance

02:27:37   on stage at the Cisco thing.

02:27:38   I got some email about it,

02:27:40   but I don't know that it's been publicized.

02:27:42   But he spoke, and apparently at great length,

02:27:45   and it was really, really interesting,

02:27:46   and made a very compelling case for,

02:27:49   you know, like, that the iPad,

02:27:51   we've only reached the tip of the iceberg,

02:27:53   but it's gonna play a tremendous role

02:27:56   in business computing going forward.

02:27:59   I really do, I think he believes it.

02:28:03   I think he really thinks it's true.

02:28:05   And I really think that he himself

02:28:07   is going to use an iPad Pro a lot.

02:28:10   And I think that he seems so interested in it personally.

02:28:15   I can't see how they wouldn't put a lot of time

02:28:20   into the unveiling of it at an event.

02:28:23   And again, I don't see how they fit that

02:28:24   in one event next week.

02:28:25   And the WWD, just to head off this possible,

02:28:31   I mean, I could be wrong,

02:28:32   'Cause I know Germin is saying it's coming next week

02:28:34   or that it's planned to.

02:28:35   And John Patzkowski said that too.

02:28:38   But Patzkowski said the same thing last year,

02:28:40   like in August, like when he, same thing,

02:28:44   like when he got the leak of the date

02:28:47   for the September event, he said, you know,

02:28:51   that it's expected to be new phones and Apple's,

02:28:54   what we then called their wearable and new iPads.

02:28:58   - Well, the one thing,

02:29:00   The one thing that goes against our argument though

02:29:02   is the size of the venue.

02:29:05   - All right.

02:29:06   - All right, hold that.

02:29:07   I have an explanation on it.

02:29:09   Yes. - Okay, all right.

02:29:10   - I have an explanation on it.

02:29:11   Hold that thought.

02:29:12   The other counterargument is that the WWDC keynote

02:29:15   this year went over two hours, well over two hours.

02:29:18   So why not just go over two hours again?

02:29:21   I don't think they were happy that that went over two hours.

02:29:24   I think that, you know.

02:29:26   - I don't think they should have been.

02:29:28   (laughing)

02:29:29   You know, I've been a bit jam-packed with really a full of exciting information

02:29:33   I thought that but that that whole the whole Apple music thing was talking to you know, it's some

02:29:38   You know, there were some Apple people who you know, obviously it's off the record, you know, but you know more or less we're like

02:29:45   Hey, sorry about this

02:29:47   You know what Ben Ben Thompson and I went we're sitting together for it and we were like we asked a friend

02:29:55   you know, like we're like the word was that it was gonna be long and we I asked somebody I know who would know

02:30:01   You know someone from Apple PR and it was like hey

02:30:04   should we

02:30:05   Should we run to the bat because run into the bathroom at?

02:30:07   WBC is kind of a pain in the ass because there's so many thousands of people streaming in like that

02:30:11   The secret is to go all the way downstairs don't you know your the keynotes on the third level?

02:30:16   Don't go to that don't go to the one that's closest go further, right?

02:30:19   Yeah, like a funny side story is Ben and I both like we're like, oh we better go

02:30:25   So we went and a couple minutes ago,

02:30:28   before the keynote goes, we went down to the first floor

02:30:31   to hit the restroom.

02:30:32   Glad that I did.

02:30:34   So son of a bitch ran along.

02:30:35   The funny thing is we come back upstairs

02:30:37   and we get to the third floor and the door to the men's room

02:30:39   was way out the door.

02:30:41   I mean, there must have been 100 guys waiting in line

02:30:44   to go to the men's room on the third floor of Moscone.

02:30:48   And Ben, see me, I'm not a humanitarian.

02:30:51   I was just gonna go take my seat.

02:30:53   Ben stopped and Ben is a very nice guy

02:30:56   and started telling people, he was like,

02:30:57   "Hey, you know, you can just go down to the first floor

02:30:59   "and there's no line."

02:31:01   There's literally no line to the first floor mentor.

02:31:03   And nobody took his advice.

02:31:04   And I was like-- - Because they were scared.

02:31:06   - Yeah, they were scared that it was like some kind of trick.

02:31:08   - Those are some sort of scam, yeah.

02:31:09   - Yeah. (laughs)

02:31:11   And Ben like took it hard.

02:31:13   He's like, you know, and I was like,

02:31:15   "This is why it doesn't pay to help people, Ben.

02:31:17   "Doesn't pay."

02:31:18   But anyway, I don't think they were happy

02:31:22   that that went over two hours.

02:31:23   They just felt like this is what we have to do

02:31:25   at WWDC this year, and they needed to,

02:31:27   they felt like they needed to get Apple Music announced,

02:31:31   and so therefore it had to be over two hours.

02:31:32   I feel like they, their internal goal

02:31:36   to keep 'em all under two hours,

02:31:38   they'll make an exception if they feel like they need to,

02:31:40   but if they don't need to, they won't.

02:31:42   And I feel like they don't need to this time.

02:31:43   Why they don't have to do one of them.

02:31:46   - It would be breaking the pattern to do that.

02:31:49   - Yeah. - Yeah.

02:31:51   - All right, what was the thing I said we'd get back to?

02:31:52   Oh, the venue. - The venue.

02:31:54   - So the venue is Bill Graham Civic Auditorium.

02:31:59   I've never been there.

02:32:01   I'm not even quite, I hope I get there.

02:32:03   - If you do, go to the bathroom in the basement,

02:32:07   even if there's no bathroom down there.

02:32:09   - Well, so it's a huge place,

02:32:12   and I guess it can be configured to fill thousands of people.

02:32:17   But my understanding, and again,

02:32:20   This is just a sort of, you know,

02:32:22   lick my finger and put it in the wind.

02:32:24   But it sounds to me like they haven't really increased

02:32:29   the number of people invited.

02:32:32   Like, it doesn't seem like press invitations

02:32:34   are all that easy to get.

02:32:36   Which makes it sound like there's not,

02:32:40   now it could be that they are gonna have

02:32:42   thousands and thousands and thousands of people or whatever,

02:32:44   but that they've invited people from China

02:32:46   or that it's a bunch of people from the TV industry.

02:32:49   you know, like people who write about TV

02:32:51   and Hollywood reporters.

02:32:52   And so that I wouldn't know this

02:32:53   because they haven't increased the number of,

02:32:56   you know, the people I know and the tech people.

02:32:59   - Well, I didn't get an invite.

02:33:00   - There you go, see?

02:33:02   But that's just, here's my thinking

02:33:05   is that maybe the reason that they have this big venue,

02:33:07   I don't know what it even looks like inside.

02:33:09   So I, you know, I could be that this doesn't,

02:33:12   what I'm gonna say doesn't make any sense.

02:33:13   But remember last year,

02:33:16   They built this big white box in front of the Flint Center

02:33:21   down there in Cupertino.

02:33:23   And nobody knew what it was.

02:33:24   And it was a big demo area, a big temporary demo area

02:33:28   for all the new stuff they wanted to show.

02:33:31   Like a one day, two hour Apple store.

02:33:34   Just for demonstrating the new watch and everything.

02:33:39   My thought is what if they did that again this year,

02:33:42   but they wanted to do it all indoors?

02:33:45   that maybe that's why they have it in this huge area.

02:33:47   So that there may not be tons of press seating

02:33:50   or seating for people to see the event,

02:33:52   but that they've built a big area to demonstrate this.

02:33:56   And I think, just thinking about it,

02:33:58   if you wanna demonstrate Apple TV in a realistic way,

02:34:01   you need a lot of physical space.

02:34:03   - You gotta have a lot of space, right,

02:34:05   'cause you gotta have a bunch of TVs.

02:34:06   - Yeah, and maybe like couches set up or something.

02:34:09   So sit down and watch a ball game or something, right?

02:34:12   So that's my guess.

02:34:14   My guess is, and just a guess,

02:34:17   I mean, how the hell did I know?

02:34:18   I don't know what the hell's going on

02:34:19   in the Bill Graham Civic Arts.

02:34:22   But this is my guess, is that they've built

02:34:24   a huge hands-on area inside,

02:34:27   and that's why it's in a big venue.

02:34:28   Not because they're inviting lots of people.

02:34:31   - Okay, well.

02:34:32   - Not that they're not inviting lots of people,

02:34:33   even if, you know.

02:34:35   - Yeah, I was assuming that it was gonna be

02:34:36   all the way through iPads,

02:34:37   but now that we've talked, I think,

02:34:41   I'm gonna say that we're right.

02:34:43   that it's not, that iPads are gonna be next month.

02:34:45   - I'm also predicting, I'll predict that Mark Gurman

02:34:47   will say that he wasn't wrong about the iPads.

02:34:50   He'll say he was right, but that they moved them to October

02:34:54   because it leaked that they were gonna come out.

02:34:56   'Cause his report that they leaked.

02:34:59   - That's unfair. (laughs)

02:35:02   - Is it unfair?

02:35:03   - It only happened, well, did that happen more than once?

02:35:05   - No, it was just with the design of--

02:35:08   - Just the once.

02:35:09   the health app design.

02:35:13   But that he wasn't wrong, he was right,

02:35:17   and they moved it out of spite.

02:35:19   - They are very spiteful.

02:35:23   - And again, I'll just emphasize,

02:35:26   they could, I guess, squeeze in iPad,

02:35:29   but then if they do, then there's nothing left

02:35:30   to have an event for El Capitan

02:35:33   and any new Macs that they wanna unveil.

02:35:35   - Yeah, right.

02:35:37   - And I thought it was interesting too

02:35:39   that Germin even said that he, you know,

02:35:41   he said that he thinks that the iPad,

02:35:43   sources say the iPad's supposed to come out

02:35:45   at this event this week, but then he himself said

02:35:48   that the new Retina 21-inch iMac is coming in October.

02:35:53   And that's like, you know, a new, cool new Retina iMac

02:35:59   coming in October sure sounds like a perfect thing

02:36:02   to announce at an event in October, right?

02:36:04   - Yeah.

02:36:06   - So anyway, that's what I think.

02:36:07   but it'll be interesting. Anything else? I think that's enough. Yeah that's pretty good.

02:36:15   I think that's enough too. Just enough. Alright, John Moltz. Exactly the right amount. Always good

02:36:23   to talk to you, always a good time. Everybody can get all the Moltz they want at a very fine

02:36:30   website. Very nice website. Very, very nice. I don't know what's going on a very fine website.

02:36:36   It's not as good as what's going on at very nice website though. Yeah

02:36:39   Prize you is it got to be the nice?

02:36:42   It's got to be the number one hit if I google very nice website. I would think so

02:36:45   Very nice website except I'm not using Google anymore. Yep. John molts is very nice website. There we go

02:36:53   So you can find out branding baby. That's branding right there

02:36:57   If you enjoy the sounds of his voice on a podcast you're in luck. Sorry

02:37:05   Well, did I please have your hearing checked?

02:37:07   There's turning this car around if you'd Google for turning this car around you'll find it that's John's show where he talks about

02:37:15   parenting and and stuff like that with

02:37:18   John Armstrong, yeah

02:37:21   And

02:37:24   Lex Friedman, yes, Lex Friedman Lex Friedman. I forgot about Lex and you got what else you got

02:37:34   The rebound where we talk about technology with Lex Friedman and Dan Morin

02:37:39   And moltz of Twitter and moltz at moltz. Yep, pretty good pretty good got in there quick got in there quick and got that yeah

02:37:50   Yeah, I do after race Gruber Gruber is too popular a name in Europe

02:37:57   There's the it's a big name in Germany so that it lets it do you get lots of people asking for your handle?

02:38:02   No, nobody asked for it though

02:38:04   You've all Jesse char on an Instagram important every hysterical. I never know how funny you know what?

02:38:11   I don't read I never know whether it's a joke or not because people yeah, I guess people has it's become a joke now

02:38:16   Yeah, right. She's got the at Jesse just playing jess. Si E on Instagram and every post she ever makes

02:38:23   There's somebody in it. Usually some young girl named, you know, just

02:38:27   77 whatever

02:38:30   Hands squared I don't know. I don't know where these kids come up with the handle names

02:38:34   But I mean you ever look does your tech kid text at all?

02:38:37   Names of like the iMessage names of oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it looks like a bear no

02:38:44   Recognition no, no, who's this? Yeah, it looks like a mistake

02:38:50   Somebody asking can I have your handle? Can I have your username as though?

02:38:54   Like you just say sure. Yes, why not?

02:38:58   Why wouldn't I give it to you

02:39:00   Teenage stranger. No, nobody asks for mine teenage stranger who has 15 followers compared to my thousands

02:39:07   It seems like a good deal

02:39:12   Wonder whatever happened with that guy who had I know we have to wrap it up whatever happened with that guy who has the ad

02:39:18   Alphabet Twitter. I don't know. I don't know

02:39:20   That'd be something to look in this way. So okay. Hey, yeah

02:39:24   Yeah

02:39:28   Oh, I spelled it wrong.

02:39:30   [laughter]

02:39:32   I have to take the "t" off.

02:39:34   That's still him.

02:39:36   It says I'm not affiliated with Google/Alphabet.

02:39:40   Yeah.

02:39:42   Have a good trip.

02:39:44   Alright, thanks. Talk to you again.

02:39:46   Mention my name. I will. I'll put in a good word for you.

02:39:48   Win big prizes. Yeah.

02:39:50   I usually sign up as a "get my press badge" in your name.

02:39:52   Just in case. [laughter]

02:39:54   That would explain why I'm not getting invites.

02:39:56   He's here! Why do you guys even look at him? He's already here.