0:00:00friend of the show Paul Kofasas texted me earlier today with an interesting
0:00:05question and he said if you heard somebody say that an outfielder went
0:00:10quote full canseco on a ball what does that mean to you I'm not sure I know I I
0:00:20like the the thought experiment though I got it because I can never forget this
0:00:27play. It was a play when when Jose Canseco was on the Texas Rangers. He was
0:00:33playing right field and there was like a what should have been a routine fly ball
0:00:38out of the warning track. He lost it and it hit him on the head and bounced over
0:00:43for a home run. It's it I will that seems impossible. I will I will put put the I
0:00:52I will put the link in the show notes.
0:00:54I swear to God.
0:00:56I will send it to you now.
0:00:57But it does sound impossible, but it did happen.
0:01:02And I think you could probably,
0:01:05if you had the right math degree,
0:01:06you could probably prove mathematically
0:01:08that it could only have happened to Jose Canseco.
0:01:11(laughing)
0:01:13- But that seems right.
0:01:15Yeah, you know, that's the second thing on YouTube,
0:01:18the second search criteria for Jose Canseco.
0:01:22The first is just Jose Canseco and the second is Jose Canseco ball hits head.
0:01:27Wait, what the heck is that?
0:01:33I got the audio from your video so.
0:01:38I don't want to.
0:01:39Yeah, did what?
0:01:40No, this is great.
0:01:41I'm listening.
0:01:42That was the ad.
0:01:44Here he goes.
0:01:47Here he goes.
0:01:48He's going back.
0:01:49He's going back thong.
0:01:50(laughing)
0:01:52- You'd think you'd have to try to do that.
0:01:58- No, or that you'd have to try to do it on purpose.
0:02:01- Right, I mean, I'm not even sure
0:02:02if you could do it on purpose.
0:02:03- Right, so what happened was yesterday,
0:02:07yeah, I guess it was yesterday,
0:02:09Toronto Blue Jays left fielder Ben Revere
0:02:12was trying to catch a fly ball
0:02:14hit by the Orioles' Matt Wieters,
0:02:16and it was gonna hit the wall about a foot short
0:02:20and he jumped up to catch it and it hit his glove
0:02:25and went over for a home run.
0:02:27So it would not have been a home run.
0:02:29It would have been about a foot short
0:02:31and instead was 'cause he tried to catch it
0:02:33and hit his glove.
0:02:34To me, that's not a full canseco.
0:02:36That to me is like a half canseco.
0:02:38Like it's gotta hit your head.
0:02:39- No, right, it's gotta hit your head.
0:02:40- Gotta hit your head.
0:02:41- Or some other butt.
0:02:42I mean, you know, I'm not sure if there's anything else
0:02:44comical than the head that would actually work. I think you're debasing the beauty of that play
0:02:50by calling it a kantseka. A full... yeah, yeah. That's a half at best.
0:02:59That's a half a kantseka. That should be the official scoring, actually.
0:03:04The other link that came up when I went to Google it, when you type in Jose kantseka,
0:03:10And that is a fun. It's a very fun game. What auto completes the other one that came out was Jose Canseco
0:03:16Knocked out and when that when that auto completed I thought I was like, holy cow
0:03:22So I misremembered the play I was like, I don't remember him getting knocked out on that play
0:03:26I thought that it just went over and you know, he was okay turns out it's a different video
0:03:30He was in a celebrity boxing match
0:03:33And got knocked out in the first round
0:03:38naturally yeah, actually he was
0:03:40Who is he fighting by sicahima former Philadelphia Eagles
0:03:49Think he was like a safety and like a kick returner and is now in fact a beloved local
0:03:55sportscaster here and here in Philly by sicahima
0:03:59Believe he's Hawaiian
0:04:03Yeah, beloved for having having knocked out Jose Canseco.
0:04:07Exactly.
0:04:09I guess he, I guess Canseco used to play at
0:04:16for the local, for our local team here for the Rainiers.
0:04:20Actually, because he was, he was in the A's, right?
0:04:23Yeah, yeah.
0:04:24Yeah, yeah, because it used to be the Rainiers used to be an A's farm team before they became a Mariners farm team.
0:04:30and so I remember going to a game one night and
0:04:33I'm pretty sure I get wigged like the gift the thing you know
0:04:37If you get first 100 people or whatever was a hook it Jose can say go bubble head doll
0:04:41That's a good name for a local team named after your yeah, cool mountaintop mount Rainier. Yeah, unless they rename the mountain
0:04:50Yeah, well that happens nowadays, right? That's right. Yeah, which I think they should but yeah, that's okay
0:04:58What a funny story that is I I'm guessing those people have heard this but it's
0:05:01It's there was that there's a mountain in Alaska and that everybody in Alaska calls it Denali and it's the like the indigenous
0:05:10Name that you know, they've been calling it that since you know, I don't know hundreds of years or whatever and then
0:05:17At some point hundred years ago
0:05:20Some point a white man shows up a white man shows up and they named it Mount McKinley after president McKinley
0:05:27who quite frankly was not a very good president. And in fact, this is the part I did not know,
0:05:32had never even stepped foot in Alaska. And so president—
0:05:37Well, it was a long way to go back then.
0:05:39President Barack Obama renamed it to Denali.
0:05:46To what it was originally named.
0:05:48Right. And it's such a weird story because so much in US politics is just knee jerk,
0:05:54left-right, Republican, Democrat, you know, anything, you know, Obama, you know, orders a hamburger
0:06:00and Republicans complain that he didn't get a cheeseburger. And instead though, this is very
0:06:08strange, everybody in Alaska, whether they're Republican or Democrat, is very happy about this
0:06:13because it's apparently been like a sticking point for a long time because, you know, they don't like
0:06:17it. And people in Ohio, which is the home state of President McKinley, are very, very upset.
0:06:23Too bad.
0:06:28Name one of your little mountains in Ohio, Mount McKinley, right?
0:06:30Now the name's freedom.
0:06:31Yeah, exactly.
0:06:32Yeah.
0:06:33McKinley Hill.
0:06:34Yeah.
0:06:35So, the Rainier is actually, I believe, Tahoma in whatever the...
0:06:45I'm not sure which native language it is or if it's all of them, if they all called it
0:06:49the same thing.
0:06:51So basically the same name as Tacoma Rylo.
0:06:55I did not know that.
0:06:56Yeah.
0:06:57There you go.
0:06:58So they should change that.
0:06:59And then the team could be the Tacoma Tahomas.
0:07:02Oh my god, that would be great.
0:07:06That would be a good way to get on SportsCenter on a regular basis.
0:07:09Right.
0:07:10They're not getting the way they're playing right now.
0:07:13Actually, I don't know how well the Rainiers are doing,
0:07:15but their parent team is not doing that well.
0:07:18I tried to explain to Jonas the other day
0:07:20about, you remember Dick Trickle?
0:07:22- I forgot the name.
0:07:25- He was a NASCAR driver.
0:07:26He was like a mediocre NASCAR driver.
0:07:30Did not have a great win record or anything like that.
0:07:34But in the late 90s when Keith Olbermann
0:07:38and Dan Patrick were doing Sports Center,
0:07:42I guess it was like the middle 90s,
0:07:43and every night at 11 o'clock,
0:07:45those two guys who went on,
0:07:46they're two of the top sportscasters in the country now.
0:07:50whenever they reported NASCAR results,
0:07:52they would say, "Who came in first?
0:07:53"Who came in second?
0:07:54"And where did Dick Trickle finish?"
0:07:56So it'd be like, so-and-so came in first,
0:08:00so-and-so was second, and Dick Trickle finished 28th.
0:08:04And it was every single week, it was so great.
0:08:08And they never, of course, they never said why.
0:08:11And I really had to, Jonas did not believe me.
0:08:15We really had to Google the guy
0:08:17and look up his Wikipedia.
0:08:18And you can even find, if you Google him,
0:08:22references to the fact that he was
0:08:24always mentioned on SportsCenter.
0:08:26- Oh my God.
0:08:26- So that, you need a catchy name like that.
0:08:29If you're not gonna win,
0:08:31if you're only a minor league franchise,
0:08:33you need a good name like that.
0:08:34To come--
0:08:35- And that would have been a good baseball name too.
0:08:37- Yeah, yeah, Dick Trickle, oh yeah,
0:08:39he should have put in a baseball player.
0:08:40- Right, would have been, maybe that was it,
0:08:42maybe that was he missed his calling.
0:08:43- Yeah, would have been like a relief pitcher,
0:08:46like Raleigh Fingers, right?
0:08:48(laughing)
0:08:50Late innings.
0:08:51- Late innings, Dick Trickle.
0:08:53- In comes Dick Trickle.
0:08:54(laughing)
0:08:56Dick Trickle warming up in the bullpen.
0:08:59- Thank God we have nothing real to talk about.
0:09:01- No, no.
0:09:01Where do you wanna start?
0:09:05- Let's just get the Google logo thing out of the way.
0:09:10- Okay.
0:09:10- This is why I brought in noted graphic designer, John Holds.
0:09:14- I was kind of wondering why I was being brought on.
0:09:18But please continue.
0:09:20Probably 'cause you wanted somebody who knew less than you,
0:09:22and I knew much less than you.
0:09:26- Here's the, so Google changed their logo last week,
0:09:33and I, rather than write, I should, I'm going to write.
0:09:37Sometime, maybe it'll be when I get on the airplane,
0:09:39but at some point I've gotta write a longer piece,
0:09:41and I have a whole bunch of links saved up
0:09:43'cause other people are writing about it.
0:09:45But my take on it--
0:09:48Read your take.
0:09:50I went short and sweet.
0:09:52And I said, they're all--
0:09:55wait, I better--
0:09:56I was going to do it from memory.
0:09:57It's pretty short, but I better--
0:09:59let's see.
0:10:00I'll just search my home page for garbage.
0:10:02There it is.
0:10:03Their old logo was goofy.
0:10:05This new one is simply garbage, just right
0:10:08for a company with no taste.
0:10:10I don't know.
0:10:11That's harsh.
0:10:12But I meant--
0:10:13I truly mean every word of that.
0:10:14I really do.
0:10:15I think it is a garbage logo.
0:10:17I really do.
0:10:18I think it is terrible.
0:10:19And when there's two,
0:10:21there's two new things, right?
0:10:22There's a new.
0:10:23The name is written differently.
0:10:25Yes, and then they also have a logo
0:10:27which they didn't have before.
0:10:28Am I right about that?
0:10:29What would the what is the logo supposed to be
0:10:32like the circle things?
0:10:34Yeah, so there's like a circle.
0:10:36Yeah, I mean so actually
0:10:37and the if you look in the what is it?
0:10:40What's that little thing up in the URL line?
0:10:44Favicon yeah the favicon right?
0:10:46Yeah, so well, I'm not sure what was up there before it was.
0:10:51I thought it was a G.
0:10:51It was a lowercase G.
0:10:53I I see a G now I see a capital G.
0:10:56Yeah, but you see something great.
0:10:58It's got the colors.
0:10:59It's got the colors of the Chrome icon.
0:11:02Yeah, basically.
0:11:03Although actually no, it's got bullet
0:11:05'cause the Chrome icon has blue in the middle.
0:11:07This one has it on the outside, so I thought it was just the Chrome icon
0:11:10in the shape of a G, but it's not right.
0:11:13The only thing I would clarify about my I will write more but if I could if I could take my little short take again, I would the only thing I would add is that when I say their old logo was goofy, I that I realized that's an incomplete thought because it was goofy.
0:11:26But over the years, they had simplified it to a point where it was right. It was goofy, but goofy in the way that Google is goofy. And I mean, goofy like that they're sort of a quirky.
0:11:37Odd, you know, that's part of their brand right like do you this is my favorite moment in Google history
0:11:43And I mean this in total sincerity whatever year it was when Gmail was announced. They announced it on April 1st and
0:11:50And at the time like if you went to like AOL
0:11:56Comm and signed up for a free email or Yahoo everybody
0:12:00I guess Yahoo and Hotmail were like the two that were most popular
0:12:03you've got the new you know, you free email account and
0:12:06Like you got like 10 megabytes of storage or 15 megabytes of storage or something like that
0:12:12And then on April 1st of like whatever year it was
0:12:152006 2007 whatever
0:12:17Google announced that they have a new free email service called Gmail and you get like a gigabyte of storage. It was like
0:12:2450 times the storage of
0:12:26These other services and it was April 1st, which is internet jackass day
0:12:31And so I remember thinking like I I think and I think this might be true
0:12:36I think it's true that I've never once been taken in by an internet jackass day hoax
0:12:42I think and if not if I have been taken in it hasn't been bad
0:12:48Like I've never once you know and I do know it's a point of pride for me that I've never once been full
0:12:53I remember like thinking like this is this is dastardly
0:12:57"I can't tell whether this is real or a joke,
0:13:00"and I didn't know what to do,
0:13:01"I didn't know whether I should link to it,
0:13:03"I didn't know whether I should link to it and just say,
0:13:05"I don't know if this is a joke or not,
0:13:08"because it just seemed impossible.
0:13:09"How could they give everybody a gigabyte of storage?"
0:13:12And it turned out it was completely true.
0:13:14But I love that story, and I think that they did it.
0:13:17I've never heard whether it's true or not,
0:13:19but I think that's why they announced it on April 1st,
0:13:21'cause I think they knew that it would have that reaction.
0:13:24That part of the reaction to the announcement of Gmail
0:13:27was the, are they kidding?
0:13:28Is this for real?
0:13:30- Well, and that's the best thing to do on April 1st, right?
0:13:34Because everybody's so sick of April 1st
0:13:37being full of these dumb, Microsoft buys so-and-so.
0:13:42And the real trick is to do the opposite, right?
0:13:49I mean, the better gag is to do the exact opposite,
0:13:51announce something that's completely true
0:13:53that seems like it's probably not.
0:13:55And to me, it just epitomizes what is great and fun
0:13:59about Google, that they can do,
0:14:00they have amazing technology, they have,
0:14:04they think big, right?
0:14:06Instead of thinking like, let's double Yahoo's storage,
0:14:10they were like, let's give 100 times.
0:14:12Yeah, 100 times.
0:14:13They think big, they're not afraid,
0:14:18they have that sort of ambition in the imagination,
0:14:21and they have this weird sense of humor
0:14:23where I wouldn't have put it past them
0:14:25to do it as a joke.
0:14:27And they do, they are a company that does
0:14:29do jokes on April 1st.
0:14:31Like Apple, for example, never does April 1st jokes.
0:14:34And shouldn't, it would be terrible.
0:14:39But it, you know, I hate all--
0:14:41- They're not that good at jokes.
0:14:43They should probably not try that.
0:14:45- Right, I don't think Google's jokes are that good either,
0:14:47but they do them.
0:14:49But it's right for Google's brand that they do them.
0:14:54And the fact that I don't really care for those jokes is just one of those reasons why
0:14:56I just am more of an Apple person than a Google person.
0:14:59But anyway, all of that is to say is that where their logo was before, like up until
0:15:05last week, was to me, it was goofy, but goofy in the right way.
0:15:11And it looked, you know, it had like a certain stateliness to it.
0:15:14And the fact that it was this sort of weird old timey serif font that nobody really uses
0:15:20anymore. It was just like a weird quirk, but it was instantly recognizable. And, you know,
0:15:29all in a good way. And I think that it was, it just had the right tone. It was their old
0:15:35logo. So calling it goofy and leaving it at that makes it sound like I was putting their
0:15:38old logo down too. What I meant is that their old logo was goofy appropriately. And, you
0:15:45And so you can criticize it in and of itself as a logo.
0:15:49And a lot of the people who have written pieces
0:15:51supporting the new logo, they're correct in all the ways
0:15:54that their old logo was kind of weird.
0:15:56In and of itself wasn't good.
0:15:59But I think it was really good for Google.
0:16:02And this new one, to me, it's so childish looking.
0:16:07It's ridiculous.
0:16:09It's absolutely ridiculous.
0:16:12You think it's, how do you think it's childish?
0:16:16'Cause it looks like those letters
0:16:18that you put on refrigerators.
0:16:19- Yeah, it just, to me, the tone of these shapes of letters,
0:16:23the complete geometric roundness of these letters,
0:16:28and the best letter to look at, to me, is the lowercase g,
0:16:33which is really, really, to me,
0:16:34like a kindergarten-looking lowercase g,
0:16:37like the type of g you would put up in front of a kid
0:16:40learning to write for the first time.
0:16:42I mean, the O's are just perfect circles,
0:16:45so it's hard to complain about them.
0:16:46But just the G is really where it stands out
0:16:50as very, very childish looking.
0:16:53And I don't think that's good at all.
0:16:55I mean, other people have pointed out
0:16:57that it's extremely similar to the four-colored G logo
0:17:02that they have now, uppercase G.
0:17:04It's very, very similar to a logo
0:17:06that Jim Bury had used for a decade.
0:17:09I saw that.
0:17:10- And I don't think it's a problem
0:17:12in that they rip them off.
0:17:13It's not, you know, there's only so many ways
0:17:15to do primary colors, which already was part
0:17:18of Google's brand.
0:17:19You know, the blue, red, yellow, green.
0:17:22If you're gonna stick to these primary,
0:17:25like, you know, right out of the eight color Crayola box,
0:17:29look, and do a uppercase G,
0:17:33there's only so many ways to do it.
0:17:34So I wouldn't call it a ripoff,
0:17:36but the fact that it is so similar in tone
0:17:38to a logo for a romper room for three-year-olds,
0:17:43it really, really says to me how childish it is as a brand.
0:17:48I really liked, for example, with their old logo,
0:17:53I liked the way that when they made icons,
0:17:55like for example, like when they put the logo
0:17:59on the Google Maps icon or their old favicon,
0:18:03that instead of using the first G, the uppercase G,
0:18:06they used the middle G, the lowercase one,
0:18:09and you knew that that was Google's G.
0:18:12It's like Google owned that lowercase G.
0:18:15And I thought that was a really cool way,
0:18:17and I thought it was very, very apt for their brand
0:18:21and the sort of tone of their company.
0:18:23Whereas now, they're stuck with this uppercase G,
0:18:25and it's very generic looking.
0:18:28Generically childish.
0:18:29- Part of the other part of your argument,
0:18:35The last part of your argument though,
0:18:36a company with no taste.
0:18:39- Yeah.
0:18:40- I think that's probably what most people got hung up on.
0:18:44- Well, I don't-- - On your--
0:18:48- They don't have taste though.
0:18:50I really, I firmly believe it.
0:18:51And there are, here's the, I guess the part
0:18:54that gets lost in there is there are pockets within Google
0:18:57where there are good designers working
0:19:00and obviously have taste because there are some products
0:19:03that they put out that are nicely designed.
0:19:06But institutionally, they have no taste at all
0:19:10because some of their products are just horrendous.
0:19:15For example, I think Gmail just looks like garbage,
0:19:19and it always has, and I could never,
0:19:21I know probably a majority of the people listening
0:19:24to this show probably use Gmail.
0:19:26And if not a majority, certainly a huge chunk use it,
0:19:31and they use it right out of the web browser,
0:19:34that's how they do their email.
0:19:36I don't think anybody does that
0:19:38because they like the way it looks,
0:19:40they just like the way that it works.
0:19:43It looks terrible, it's just a jumbled ugly mess.
0:19:47And it's like one of their flagship products.
0:19:50I would say it's second only to web search.
0:19:54- I guess I don't find their taste any worse
0:19:58than anybody else's particularly,
0:20:00than with the possible exception of apple i mean obviously we we prefer apple so we're going to
0:20:05come down on the side that apple has better taste but i mean i think that i i mean i would say that
0:20:10that's probably not uh too much of an argument i mean apple is kind of the reverse right they they
0:20:16occasionally they do have things that show poor taste um often in their comments as opposed to
0:20:23their design, but by and large, it's the opposite case for them. But the thing about Google,
0:20:31I just don't think that their taste is really any worse than Microsoft's or anybody else's.
0:20:35Dave Asprey I don't think Microsoft has good taste either.
0:20:37Tim Cynova Yeah.
0:20:37Dave Asprey Although they have been, I think they've evolved
0:20:40better taste than Google. I think Microsoft has-
0:20:44Tim Cynova You think?
0:20:44Dave Asprey Yeah, I think in recent years-
0:20:46Tim Cynova I think maybe they're showing it
0:20:47in the last few years.
0:20:49- I would even say just look at their logo redesigns.
0:20:53I think that Microsoft redesigned their logo
0:20:55within the last few years too,
0:20:56and I think for the better.
0:20:58I think that they've gotten to a mark now
0:21:01that they can stick with forever.
0:21:04And I don't think it's great.
0:21:08There's nothing really that I would rave
0:21:09about Microsoft's current logo,
0:21:12but it was better than what they had before,
0:21:15and it seems to fit their brand to me.
0:21:19And so that to me is a sign of taste.
0:21:23I mean one of the reactions I've gotten from people
0:21:24on Twitter, and I almost can't believe
0:21:26that they exist in a world, I know there's people
0:21:29who don't care about logos, really,
0:21:31and think that they don't matter or whatever,
0:21:32but why would those people follow me on Twitter?
0:21:35Like I've met people who have said,
0:21:36dude, it's just a logo.
0:21:38- To get angry, I think.
0:21:39- Right, to me that's like saying,
0:21:41who cares what font you pick?
0:21:43It's like, I don't know.
0:21:45Like in the apartment building that is my mind,
0:21:50love of typography and love of care about logos
0:21:53share a bedroom.
0:21:55(laughing)
0:21:58It's to me, it's the same part of my brain.
0:22:00The same part of my brain lights up when I think about fonts
0:22:04as when I think about logos and branding.
0:22:06It's exactly the same part of my brain.
0:22:08And in some cases, it's married together
0:22:12because in this case, what I really don't like
0:22:14Google's logo is the type of the, the, you know, the word mark that they're using.
0:22:19Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't like it either, but this always happens to me. It's like, I,
0:22:24I end up, these things get announced and a whole bunch of people lose their shit over it.
0:22:29And I look at it and I think often I, I will, I will end up one way or the other, like saying,
0:22:37Oh, I like it. And then someone will write a very thoughtful post on why I shouldn't like it. And
0:22:41and they'll think, oh yeah, OK, I can see that or the other way around.
0:22:44So I don't feel like I'm
0:22:47I feel lost in this in this world, but I did not.
0:22:50I did not like it on first glance, on first glance.
0:22:53And also, I mean, I kind of understood why they did it,
0:22:55because they've reorganized.
0:22:58But I also but at the same time, I still don't get.
0:23:01I think the I think that companies tend to do that too much.
0:23:05And often it's a bad impulse to rush out and redesign your
0:23:10your logo to reflect some sort of business reason that your customers really probably don't give a
0:23:18crap about. Yeah, that's a very interesting point and now that you've said it, I have been thinking
0:23:24that like in the back of my head, I think you're exactly right that it's inextricably tied to this
0:23:29alphabet parent company and honestly and I know I do care deeply about logos and I really do,
0:23:38I do think that they matter,
0:23:42or at least they can matter tremendously.
0:23:44Like I think, for example, the Apple logo is,
0:23:48you can't put a value on it.
0:23:52It is incredibly valuable to the company,
0:23:55and it's so meaningful to me that they can
0:23:58have these retail stores that don't even say
0:24:00the name of the store.
0:24:01They've never put the name of the store anywhere.
0:24:04They just put this mark out in front,
0:24:06and everybody knows what it is.
0:24:08And they can make laptops that have this mark when they're opened up and you can just see
0:24:15that, you know, when you go into a coffee shop that everybody is using one of their
0:24:20laptops and it's incredibly valuable.
0:24:25Technically not their first logo.
0:24:27No, well, no, not officially.
0:24:29There's the old...
0:24:31Newton's sitting under a tree, right?
0:24:35Which was a terrible logo.
0:24:36It was a very nice drawing.
0:24:38- Doesn't really catch the eye though.
0:24:42- I'll put it in the show notes.
0:24:44I bet most people listening have seen it,
0:24:45but if you haven't, you'll be shocked
0:24:48at the first Apple Computer Company logo.
0:24:52Very well drawn, it was very nice,
0:24:54but it is a terrible logo.
0:24:56Yeah, but that's interesting.
0:25:00I do think that their changing logo
0:25:02is inextricably tied to this sort of corporate reshuffling.
0:25:05And honestly, and not to read too much into it.
0:25:07So all this said that I care about logo and that they matter,
0:25:10I actually do think that it is a sign.
0:25:13I can't articulate it logically, it's a feeling,
0:25:17but I just feel it, that it's a very bad sign for Google.
0:25:21Like to me, it's a sign that they've lost their way.
0:25:23And that, you know, I don't have money in Google,
0:25:28I don't have any money in any individual companies,
0:25:30but if I did, I would think very, very seriously
0:25:33about selling my Google stock that I don't know.
0:25:36I think they might be in for some bad times ahead.
0:25:39And it's not just the logo, it's everything.
0:25:41It's like the fact that Larry and Sergey,
0:25:46I think that's how you're supposed to pronounce it.
0:25:48I've been called on pronouncing it a different way,
0:25:50but I got some emails telling me.
0:25:52- Oh, that's a hard G?
0:25:53- Sergey, Sergey.
0:25:55- Okay, I didn't know that either.
0:26:00They've seemingly, I've been thinking about this alphabet
0:26:04reshuffling and to me as I think about it,
0:26:05I think what it really means is that those two guys
0:26:08who could do whatever they want,
0:26:09'cause A, they're filthy rich,
0:26:11B, the ingenious way that they've structured
0:26:14the stock for the company,
0:26:15they can do whatever they want with the company.
0:26:17They don't have to answer to anybody, which is great.
0:26:19I've always thought Steve Jobs must have looked
0:26:23at the way they set that up and thought,
0:26:25goddamn, I wish I'd done something like that.
0:26:27that they've lost interest,
0:26:32they've lost interest in what Google as we know it is.
0:26:36And that they just, they wanna do other things.
0:26:40To me, that for Google,
0:26:42whether the prospects for Alphabet are bad, I don't know.
0:26:45Maybe they've got some great new stuff up their sleeve.
0:26:47But for Google as we know it,
0:26:48I feel like they're going into a decline.
0:26:50- Yeah, I mean in a way,
0:26:52'cause it seems like they're taking the stuff
0:26:54that they think is the long-term growth stuff
0:26:57out of Google and other places.
0:26:59- Right, and this logo change makes me feel
0:27:02that the people left at Google,
0:27:05what is now just Google,
0:27:07really don't, they don't get what made Google great.
0:27:13They don't get it, I think,
0:27:15'cause to me this brand doesn't fit
0:27:17what the best of Google feels like.
0:27:20I mean it's-- - I was thinking,
0:27:23well I was thinking that it was
0:27:26more dictated by Alphabet.
0:27:28- Maybe?
0:27:30- Rather than done with internally to Google.
0:27:31But I mean, maybe they said to go out and design a new logo.
0:27:36Or maybe they said, we have to make sure
0:27:40that the Alphabet brand is all consistent
0:27:44and we're going in a different direction.
0:27:46- Maybe, I don't know.
0:27:47But I think they've lost something that was pretty good
0:27:52and replaced it with something that's terrible.
0:27:55Yeah, anyway, that's my thoughts on their logo.
0:27:58I mean, I wouldn't.
0:28:04I would not say that they have no taste, but
0:28:06but I don't think their taste is as good as I'm.
0:28:09They there are people in the
0:28:11in teams within the company with great taste.
0:28:13Institutionally, the company has no taste.
0:28:16That's my argument.
0:28:17And I think that it's a very strong argument.
0:28:19Anyway, let's take a break and I'll tell you about
0:28:23very good friend of the show Harry's you guys know Harry's they sell high quality razors
0:28:30blades and other you know shaving lotions and creams and shaving stuff and they sell it for
0:28:38a fraction of the price of the big brands they were started by two guys who just wanted to make
0:28:43a better product and figured there had to be a way to sell shaving stuff especially blades
0:28:50cheaper than what the big blade companies sell stuff for.
0:28:54So they started ordering blades from their own factory
0:28:58in Germany.
0:28:59They liked the blade so much they just bought the factory.
0:29:01Must be nice.
0:29:02So they just own their own blade factory.
0:29:04They make their own blades in Germany,
0:29:07place that's been making blades for a long time.
0:29:10And then they ship them right to you.
0:29:13So there is no middleman.
0:29:14That's how they have the prices so much lower.
0:29:16So you buy like Gillette.
0:29:18It's going to warehouses and middlemen and distributors,
0:29:23and then it ends up in a retail store.
0:29:24And every step of the way, it all gets marked up.
0:29:27Their starter set, it's an amazing deal.
0:29:3015 bucks, you get a razor, that's the handle.
0:29:33You get moisturizing shave cream or gel,
0:29:35your preference, whether you want a cream or a gel,
0:29:37and three razor blades, 15 bucks.
0:29:40And when you need more blades,
0:29:42depending on how many you buy them at,
0:29:43they're always two bucks or each less.
0:29:45So like an eight pack, which is like a small one,
0:29:48It's just 15 bucks, but you can get a 16-pack, 25 bucks.
0:29:52Way, way better.
0:29:55I think on Amazon, the last time I checked, it says a 12-pack of fusions from Gillette,
0:30:01which is very comparable.
0:30:02I think that's actually the blade I used to use before I switched to Harry's.
0:30:06They have a 12-pack for 41 bucks.
0:30:09So that's Amazon, who you know is not getting under cut-out price.
0:30:12So way more.
0:30:13It's like three bucks a blade,
0:30:14more than three bucks a blade for Gillette's,
0:30:18less than two bucks a blade for Harry's.
0:30:22So if you're just looking to save money,
0:30:24Harry's is the way to go.
0:30:26If you care about design, Harry's is also the way to go.
0:30:29Really nice packaging.
0:30:31I've always said this, their packaging is so nice,
0:30:33it makes me not want to throw it away,
0:30:34and then I realized that that's just the crazy hoarder.
0:30:38- Yeah, right.
0:30:39But I know exactly, I mean, I have Harry's stuff,
0:30:42I didn't know exactly what you mean. It's really well done. As I stare to my left in my office here
0:30:47and look at the stack of old Apple laptops. I've got like eight old PowerBooks. I've got iBooks.
0:30:56They're all stacked up. That's what I feel like when I get Harry's. I almost curse them for the
0:31:00quality of their packaging. So if you care about design, Harry's is the way to go. If you care
0:31:05about just being cheap, Harry's is the way to go. If you care about quality, shave so you're not
0:31:12like cutting yourself up and you know making a mess of your face, Harry's is the way to go. Their
0:31:16blades are super sharp, really great. And if you care about just being lazy, it's the way to go
0:31:22because you don't even have to leave your house. They just show up and you can eat. If you want to,
0:31:25you can even like tell them how often you need to replace your blades and just subscribe and they'll
0:31:30They'll just send them to you on a regular basis.
0:31:32So you win, I mean, every way.
0:31:36So go there to harrys.com, H-A-R-R-Y-S.com.
0:31:41And if it's your first purchase, use this code, talk show.
0:31:44They don't have the the, it's just talk show.
0:31:45And you'll save five bucks off your first purchase.
0:31:48So that $15 kit I was telling you about is only 10 bucks.
0:31:50So it's practically free.
0:31:52So go there and check them out at harrys.com.
0:31:54And remember the code, talk show.
0:31:56My notes here are confusing.
0:32:00I don't know, it says, and then down below here,
0:32:02it says promo code the talk show.
0:32:04So I don't even know what the hell the code is.
0:32:06Try 'em both, and one of 'em will give you.
0:32:09- Right, if you don't get money off, try again.
0:32:12- It's actually a fun game.
0:32:15- And then try Gruber.
0:32:16- Yeah.
0:32:17What else is going on?
0:32:21So we got this Google logo thing out of the way.
0:32:22I guess we'll talk, let's talk about the event,
0:32:24'cause maybe that's--
0:32:25- Do you wanna do that, or do you wanna talk about,
0:32:27Because on No Taste we could talk about the Samsung watch.
0:32:30Oh, that's a good one.
0:32:32Yeah, we could talk about that.
0:32:33Yeah, which I actually think looks really nice.
0:32:37But I wrote a piece about the difference between square watch faces and round watch faces.
0:32:44And I kind of think that square watch faces are actually more the way of the future than
0:32:50round watch faces.
0:32:51Ah, there I got the article.
0:32:53I did not even know you wrote this piece.
0:32:55This is nice.
0:32:56I'll put that in the show notes.
0:32:57I'm going to link that up.
0:32:59All right, so tell me why do you think that?
0:33:01Well, and again, you had the guy who's not a designer on.
0:33:06But from the things that I've read from people
0:33:08who are actually designers, it's certainly easier
0:33:12to code for a square face.
0:33:15But also, a square face is better
0:33:18at representing most information.
0:33:20That's not to say that there aren't certain instances where
0:33:23or a round depiction of something is not more valuable
0:33:28than a square one, it's just saying that you can easily,
0:33:31more easily get a circle into a square
0:33:34than the other way around.
0:33:36You could get a circle into a square
0:33:37without losing any size, whereas you cannot get a square
0:33:41into a circle without losing size.
0:33:42- Yeah, that is exactly what I have thought.
0:33:46Well, would I have been shocked if a year ago,
0:33:52and it would have been exactly a year ago as we talk,
0:33:56that when they unveiled the Apple Watch,
0:33:57if it had been circular,
0:33:59I guess I wouldn't have been shocked,
0:34:01but I wasn't surprised at all that Apple's was rectangular
0:34:06because of that exact thing,
0:34:09that it's for generic display
0:34:13that might end up displaying anything,
0:34:16including, and I think especially today's Apple,
0:34:20post App Store and iPhone Apple realizes
0:34:25that the Apple Watch was, if it's successful,
0:34:31would end up being used in ways
0:34:34that they'd never imagined, right?
0:34:36That's like the big lesson of the iPhone to me
0:34:41is that there was this whole internal debate.
0:34:48I think Ben Thompson and I were talking about
0:34:50in the last episode, that it's just so funny
0:34:52that there was a camp within the company
0:34:53that was sort of like, we don't need an app store.
0:34:55You know, we'll just make all the apps we need ourselves
0:34:58and partner with companies, you know,
0:34:59like Google for the YouTube app and the Google Maps app
0:35:03that shipped on the first iPhone.
0:35:04We'll just partner with people
0:35:06and we'll make all the apps that we need for this thing.
0:35:08So like, for example, I do think that Apple foresaw
0:35:12that there would have, you know,
0:35:13right away that there would be a second screen of apps.
0:35:16You know, I think that they had the idea
0:35:18that you'd page between, you know,
0:35:19from the left to the right, you know, to get to more apps.
0:35:22I think though that there was a side within the company
0:35:24that thought, you know, that'll be--
0:35:26- There'll all be our apps.
0:35:27- Yeah, there'll be like 24 apps for the iPhone
0:35:30and it'll be great.
0:35:31And that Safari was the outlet for it.
0:35:35You know, I actually think that, you know,
0:35:38that when they announced that at the first WWDC
0:35:40that we have a sweet solution for you guys,
0:35:42I think that they meant it.
0:35:44I think there were some people within the company
0:35:46who wanted, definitely were pushing for the App Store angle,
0:35:49who cringed at that, just like all the developers
0:35:53in the audience watching the keynote did.
0:35:56But I think that some of them thought,
0:35:58that's good enough for like,
0:36:00and I think they foresaw things like,
0:36:03well, you do your online banking on your phone.
0:36:05Well, they'll just write a website that works,
0:36:08that fits right on the screen.
0:36:10So I think now, lo these many years later
0:36:14and all these literally millions of apps
0:36:16and all the money they're making on the apps,
0:36:18they realize, hey, the phone is being used
0:36:20in ways we never imagined.
0:36:21I think they knew going into it with the watch
0:36:23that it would be used in ways they didn't imagine,
0:36:25and I think a rectangle is a better generic shape
0:36:28than a circle for that.
0:36:30- Yeah, and the thing, one of the things that struck me,
0:36:33even just like while I was writing this piece was that,
0:36:36'cause I went back and looked at all the old watches
0:36:38that I had lying around, and I guess that came out
0:36:43because I was using a circular watch face,
0:36:46and I switched to modular, which I like and don't like,
0:36:50but I like it because it's got a lot
0:36:51of extra information on it.
0:36:54And the problem that I had was like,
0:36:55I wanted a watch face with a date on it.
0:36:58And I also wanted a watch face
0:37:01that I could get the most complications on.
0:37:03And the way you do that in most of them
0:37:06is by putting the date inside the watch face.
0:37:09Well, most of those are too small for me to read
0:37:12because I'm too old for it now.
0:37:15And the other thing is that five minutes out of every hour,
0:37:19you can't read the date anyway,
0:37:22because the minute hand is covering it.
0:37:24- Yeah, I've thought the same thing.
0:37:26- Yeah, and that's sort of like,
0:37:29it was interesting how I went back
0:37:32and looked at those old watches and thought,
0:37:33yeah, I mean, that's kind of a thing
0:37:34that I've struggled with for years, really,
0:37:36and never really thought much about.
0:37:39But I mean, you can, with a watch with physical hands,
0:37:42the minute hand is always the one that's higher,
0:37:44So you can kind of tilt to see around it
0:37:47in order to see what the date is.
0:37:51But it's even worse on like a chronograph
0:37:54because it's got all those extra things on there
0:37:57that are on the face, but they get covered up
0:37:59at odd parts of the hour and become difficult to use.
0:38:04So all that stuff is just adding information
0:38:08to a watch with a circular face
0:38:09and trying to put it inside that circle
0:38:11becomes really difficult.
0:38:12- Yeah.
0:38:13And the modular face, while I don't like certain things
0:38:16about it, it just displays all the information.
0:38:20- And there is a psychological angle to it too.
0:38:25Like the way that everybody, the famous,
0:38:29the adage that if you drop a slice of butter toast,
0:38:31it's always gonna land butter side down.
0:38:33It's because that's what you remember
0:38:35is the time that it did that.
0:38:36It just seems like it's more often than not,
0:38:40when I wanna check the date, it's quarter after.
0:38:43It's just like, oh my God, how come every time
0:38:46I wanna check the date, it's quarter after
0:38:48and I can't see the date?
0:38:49What the hell?
0:38:51And that's not true.
0:38:52It's just that all the other times I check the date,
0:38:54I don't remember that, but the times that it is blocked,
0:38:57I remember and then it just feels like
0:38:59it's always quarter after.
0:39:01Just like when you play blackjack,
0:39:04it seems like I always get 16.
0:39:06That's all I remember.
0:39:07Every goddamn hand.
0:39:08- You only ever get 16.
0:39:10- All I ever get are 16s.
0:39:11and the dealer gets a blackjack every goddamn time.
0:39:14Every time, how is that possible?
0:39:16- It's unreal.
0:39:17- Yeah, so that is true.
0:39:18And I think that too, it also, it stinks,
0:39:22it doesn't stink, it sticks out with the Apple Watch
0:39:25even more because when it happens,
0:39:28you realize that you have the option
0:39:30of changing to a different face that it fixes it.
0:39:33You know, like if you buy an analog watch
0:39:36and the date gets covered up when it's quarter after,
0:39:38you might be annoyed, but you don't think,
0:39:40well I could spend 10 seconds here and change the WOD face
0:39:43and fix this problem, right?
0:39:45Whereas with the Apple Watch, you know,
0:39:47it's always an option to switch to a different face
0:39:49where you don't have that problem.
0:39:50- Yeah.
0:39:52And so that Samsung Watch, the Galaxy, the Gear S2,
0:39:56is a very nice looking circular faced smartwatch.
0:40:01But I still feel like the circular face is the wrong UI.
0:40:08- Yeah, I think it's--
0:40:09design. But maybe not catastrophically, you know, like maybe that's not necessarily going to limit
0:40:18the success of those watches. But I do think, you know, there are some people, this is a funny little
0:40:24side topic, this square versus round thing. There's a fair number of people who I've seen,
0:40:32you know, either an email or on Twitter, you know, communicating with me that are predicting
0:40:37that Apple will eventually go circular because circular watches look better.
0:40:41People who look at the Apple Watch and say, "I just don't like...
0:40:44It looks too nerdy to me because it's square." Apple's got... They're going to go circular
0:40:50eventually. And I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen
0:40:53either, but... I think it would be... And I think it would be way too hard. Now, of course,
0:40:58Apple changes things all the time, and they're never really all that worried about making
0:41:02developers do more work. I mean, they're not, and they shouldn't be. If they were,
0:41:06it would actually slow them down and in the long run, in the short run it's
0:41:10always, it's never good if they're making, if they make changes that make
0:41:13developers do more work. Like the the big change in iOS 7 where the, you know,
0:41:19pretty much every single app other than games had to redo their entire user
0:41:22interface or else they would look bad. That's, you know, it's a lot to ask.
0:41:28Every day all of you with all of your apps have to redo all of the entirety of
0:41:32your user interface that's a lot to ask but it's the right move going forward
0:41:36rather than stick with something that's you know going to be outdated still
0:41:40waiting for a new icon from Instagram they redid the interface right I really
0:41:47wonder I wonder on don't I can change I would love to hear what what the
0:41:52argument inside the company is on that because it their icon does really just
0:41:56being just being dicks at this point and you it's not hard to imagine just and I
0:42:02I know flat is an overused term,
0:42:05but just flatten the goddamn thing.
0:42:07- Right, right, right.
0:42:08It could be the same colors.
0:42:09- Yeah, same colors.
0:42:11I think it would move the drop shadow.
0:42:13- Right.
0:42:14Just de-forstall it.
0:42:17Yeah, I do think the new Samsung,
0:42:24I'm gonna get it wrong.
0:42:25On Twitter there, I called it the G2.
0:42:27It's not the G2, it's the S2.
0:42:29- Gear S2.
0:42:30- I'm just gonna call it the Samsung launch.
0:42:31which is not a great name.
0:42:33- I actually, here's a case where I wish
0:42:34that they just copied Apple and just called it Samsung Watch.
0:42:38'Cause that's, but then I could remember the name.
0:42:42But anyway, it, you know, and I was, you know,
0:42:46pretty complimentary to it when I linked to it.
0:42:47I, you know, and people who, I saw people,
0:42:51a few people said, I was surprised
0:42:52to see you be complimentary to it.
0:42:54And to me, that, it's like, I'm never trying
0:42:56to be against Samsung or against Google.
0:42:59I'm saying what I really think.
0:43:01And what I really think about most Samsung products
0:43:03is that they're derivative crap.
0:43:06So therefore it seems as though I'm against Samsung
0:43:10because I keep saying it,
0:43:11but it's because they keep putting out
0:43:12what I see as derivative crap,
0:43:13and then they put out something that to me is interesting
0:43:16and original and looks pretty good.
0:43:17And so I said, it's interesting
0:43:19and original and looks pretty good.
0:43:21They did copy a few things from the Apple Watch.
0:43:23- Right, that round.
0:43:25I mean, with their system though,
0:43:28it's apps instead of contacts, right?
0:43:32- Yeah, yeah.
0:43:33- It looks like the contacts thing that comes up
0:43:36when you hit the button on the side of the Apple Watch,
0:43:37except it's actually apps.
0:43:38- Yeah, and the other thing is, did you see the interface?
0:43:43I couldn't find a better place to link to it,
0:43:46but there's just a couple seconds of it
0:43:47in the Verges video where they show what it,
0:43:50when you, they don't call them complications,
0:43:52I forget what they call them.
0:43:53They came up with a new word for complications,
0:43:55but whatever they call the complications
0:43:58on their watch faces that are user adjustable.
0:44:01When you go into the edit mode,
0:44:03it is exactly like Apple Watch.
0:44:05Like there's a little,
0:44:07there's dots at the top that you can swipe
0:44:11between which thing you're editing.
0:44:12When you're like changing the color of the second hand,
0:44:17it highlights in the same color,
0:44:20and they even like use like the same all caps
0:44:24in a round rack thing that says like color.
0:44:27If you look for it, it's just exactly,
0:44:30like it could not be more of a copy.
0:44:33Kind of embarrassing for them, but.
0:44:36- But in terms of outward appearance,
0:44:38for the most part it does not look like anything like it.
0:44:42And that the, what do they call it?
0:44:45The--
0:44:46- The bezel.
0:44:47- The bezel, yeah, the rotating bezel
0:44:49as a thing that changes the interface.
0:44:52is a really good idea.
0:44:54- Yeah, it seems like it.
0:44:55And by all reports from people who've had a hands-on with it
0:44:58it has a good feel to it, which is important.
0:45:00It's funny, it's actually like,
0:45:03talking about this is exactly why I like having a podcast.
0:45:07'Cause I almost feel like,
0:45:09even if I had gone really long writing about it,
0:45:12it would be so much easier just to talk about it,
0:45:15which is that I wanted to say, look,
0:45:17they copied a few little things,
0:45:19But overall, it's mostly an original design
0:45:24and kudos, and a good one, and kudos to them for that.
0:45:26But I didn't wanna mention the little things
0:45:28that they copied because then people would say,
0:45:31how can you call this a copy?
0:45:33Right, it's round instead of square,
0:45:35how can you say it's a rip-off?
0:45:37And I'm not saying that, I'm just saying
0:45:39they did steal a few things, but everybody does that.
0:45:42So I don't even think it's worth complaining about,
0:45:44in the way that Apple will steal things,
0:45:46like Command Tab, which was a Windows invention.
0:45:50So taking little good ideas from the other guys is okay.
0:45:53It's the--
0:45:55- When you wholesale copy the whole entire thing.
0:45:58- Right, when you get Phil Schiller on the stand
0:46:01in a court case and they hold up a thing
0:46:03and he says, "I can't tell if that's--"
0:46:04- They can't tell the difference.
0:46:06- If that's ours or his.
0:46:07And it's like, you know damn well you can tell
0:46:09if that's ours.
0:46:10- But one of the other things I liked about it
0:46:12that it kind of more so than any of the other any of the Android wear watches.
0:46:18And then I know this one's based on Tizen, but that it has a good sense of what it is.
0:46:24- Yeah.
0:46:25- There's like two of them. There's like two levels, right? And one of them looks like to
0:46:29me like a swatch, which is not a cut down. And the other one looks like a good like $80 or $90,
0:46:36a hundred, something like that. Sort of a mid range watch. And I'm sure they'll probably cost
0:46:40more because they have they have more features they should cost more and it
0:46:44just but we don't still don't know how much they're gonna cost but they didn't
0:46:47like the to me the the motor role just looks flat-out terrible the three
0:46:53motor all 360 just looks terrible because it's just a cylinder cut off
0:46:57with like little prongs on the end to attach a band to and then the other one
0:47:02that's a big Android where watches the horribly named LG one the oh yeah
0:47:08Watcher Bane
0:47:10Which looks like it's trying to be a fancy watch
0:47:14But it looks like it's made out of cheap materials
0:47:17Is that the one that has numbers printed around the bezel like hardware printed around the bezel?
0:47:23I don't think so. No. No, there's one that has like a third like 15 30 45
0:47:29Around the outside which really is really weird on it. That's very strange on a smartwatch. Yeah
0:47:36Like it's I know why it's there because you're using it to tell time most of the time
0:47:40But it just seems like a weird it just seems weird that it's been on the hardware instead of doing it on the screen
0:47:45But that's the one that people
0:47:46The LG one is the one that people most point to and say or had up to date
0:47:50Pointed to and said that looks like a real watch. Yeah
0:47:54Which I mean, you know there there have been square watches before
0:47:59And also it looks like a real crappy watch to me
0:48:03Yeah, whereas this one looks like a good like maybe, you know somewhat more casual not super fancy, but like a good watch
0:48:10Yeah, it's it's funny because I feel like in my experience
0:48:13You really do have to see any watch in person to truly get a sense of the size
0:48:18Like seeing a photograph of it on somebody's wrist just doesn't really work
0:48:23Although if it's if it's a huge enough like the original moto
0:48:26270
0:48:28You can tell just by looking at the picture that it's humongous
0:48:31But then when you look at it in real life,
0:48:32you're like, oh my God, it's even bigger than I thought.
0:48:35But that said, the numbers of the,
0:48:39I think the Samsung, there's two sizes, 40 and 42.
0:48:41And 40 millimeters is really a standard size
0:48:46for a watch today.
0:48:48The old standard for men's watches, older,
0:48:51like going back decades, was more like 36 millimeters.
0:48:53But 40 is pretty standard.
0:48:58And obviously comparable roughly to Apple's 42.
0:49:02It is interesting to me that even a year later,
0:49:05even Samsung can't yet match Apple on the 38.
0:49:08'Cause I do think one of the problems with the Samsung one.
0:49:12So I think the Samsung one, totally credible,
0:49:15just as like a piece of jewelry on a man's wrist.
0:49:17And to me, it's the first one that's not the Apple Watch
0:49:22that qualifies for that, really.
0:49:24Even the LG one, I don't really think looks that good.
0:49:27I still don't think though that the Samsung one,
0:49:32even the smaller one,
0:49:33I don't think it's gonna be something that women would wear.
0:49:38I just don't think it's small enough yet.
0:49:40And I think Samsung kind of knows it
0:49:41because I don't think any of the bands that they've done
0:49:45look like they're targeted at women.
0:49:48That's not to say no women will buy it.
0:49:51- Yeah, I mean, yeah, right.
0:49:52- And watches are a funny thing,
0:49:53whereas an awful lot of--
0:49:54- People like different styles.
0:49:55- Yeah.
0:49:56of women wear like big chunky watches. Well and look at the Apple Watch there's
0:50:01an awful lot of the you know especially the most popular ones like the sport the
0:50:05sport ones are you know unisex you know I think you know you could argue that
0:50:09the pink band is you know probably if you know more feminine but I would say
0:50:17other than the pink all of the other colors even the black are are unisex you
0:50:22know I wouldn't say that you know that there's really any kind of gender
0:50:26towards that. I think that the the link bracelet is probably you know to me
0:50:31looks masculine but most of the other ones I think are unisex but I think
0:50:37Samsung's with the like the leather and stuff like that I I think they look like
0:50:41men's watches just in general. Yeah yeah I mean I would say I would say that a
0:50:47man would be more likely to like it than than a woman which is not you know not
0:50:53to make a flat out blanket statement. So an interesting thing that I was not
0:50:59aware of somebody on Twitter pointed out to me that that the fact that they're
0:51:03using Tizen instead of Android Wear opens up China to them and that Android
0:51:09Wear apparently is not there's no Android Wear watches aren't available in
0:51:13China and I could be wrong here just going from a guy on Twitter and I asked
0:51:17him to clarify and he said that I did know that this was true that you know
0:51:22know how like with Android, Samsung takes Android from Google and if they agree to such
0:51:30and such, they can have these Google apps built in but they still get to customize the
0:51:34interface with, what do they call it, TouchWiz, and they can add their own apps and stuff.
0:51:41Android Wear, there is no option to do that. Android Wear, you get Android Wear and you
0:51:46do it. I think you can add custom faces but that's about it. You can't disentangle it.
0:51:51Your own apps in there. Yeah, and it's like you and that's a problem in China because in China
0:51:57I guess all the Android phones are all you know, instead of having Google search and stuff like that
0:52:01They've all got the the Chinese equivalents
0:52:03right
0:52:06So that's interesting because I've heard China is a big market
0:52:10Now the Allen the Apple watch is definitely on sale in China, yeah, well, but that's somehow you know
0:52:18You know, that's just Apple being yeah, right, right. I
0:52:23Think that I guess I don't even know I'd got me thinking about it
0:52:28Like does if you're in China with an iPhone, I guess that the App Store has different apps
0:52:34I mean, I don't even know how that how that works
0:52:36I've never really thought about that but with the way that China, you know has the the great firewall for internet access
0:52:41How does the App Store work in China? I actually I should probably do some research on this
0:52:48- Yeah, we should probably all brush up
0:52:50on how things work in China.
0:52:52- If anybody out there knows--
0:52:53- We should have done that five years ago.
0:52:55- If anybody out there knows,
0:52:56send me email and explain this to me.
0:52:57I would love to hear about it,
0:52:59but it seems very confusing to me.
0:53:01But anyway, yeah, I'm interested by your article,
0:53:06but I do think Samsung did a good job with the S2.
0:53:09- Yeah, yeah.
0:53:10- The other thing it got me thinking about too,
0:53:15and I've mentioned this on "Daring Fireball,"
0:53:16But the watch, and this kind of leads into the next topic,
0:53:20which is next week and what we expect,
0:53:22and talking about Apple TV.
0:53:24But the thing that's so weird about these smartwatches
0:53:28is the way that they're all,
0:53:30and I think eventually they'll be independent
0:53:34and they'll just have their own internet access.
0:53:36But the way that everybody's,
0:53:38whether it's Apple's or Android's or Tizen,
0:53:40is tied to the phone, a phone, that it's paired with
0:53:45to get most of its information and apps and stuff like that.
0:53:48That people don't really have a choice here.
0:53:51Like if it's really, do you wanna get a smartwatch or not?
0:53:54And if you do, you're on one side of the fence.
0:53:57You can only use an Apple Watch if your phone is an iPhone.
0:54:01- Right.
0:54:03- And I guess--
0:54:04- You can use an Android Wear now on the iPhone.
0:54:08- But it's very, very unlikely.
0:54:11I mean, that's-- - Yes, yes.
0:54:13I just can't imagine how many people would do that.
0:54:16- Right.
0:54:17- It's very unlikely.
0:54:18- Yeah.
0:54:19And supposedly, I guess, Samsung was quoted recently
0:54:21as saying that they're gonna try and bring the Tizen watch
0:54:25to the iPhone as well.
0:54:27- Why bother?
0:54:28I honestly, I don't know.
0:54:29- I would like to try one.
0:54:30- Yeah, I guess it's true.
0:54:31- I would be interested in trying one,
0:54:32depending on how much it costs, but I would--
0:54:34- Right.
0:54:35- I might pick up the low-end one and give it a try.
0:54:37- Yeah, I would do that, but that's just me being stupid.
0:54:40I mean, I shouldn't even call it stupid.
0:54:42I could totally justify it as a business expense
0:54:44that I might write about.
0:54:45Same reason that I bought the Pebble.
0:54:47I paid for both generations of Pebble
0:54:49just so I could speak about them intelligently.
0:54:52Knowing going in that it was almost certain
0:54:54that I wasn't gonna actually wear it regularly.
0:54:57But I just think it makes it so interesting.
0:55:01And a little sad, 'cause I do wish
0:55:03that they were independent so that I could just spend,
0:55:05'cause I'm gonna guess that the Samsung One
0:55:08is like $300 to $400.
0:55:10That's what I'm gonna guess.
0:55:12Maybe up to five, but probably not.
0:55:15I just don't see how they could justify it.
0:55:17- No, I wouldn't think it's that much.
0:55:20I would not think it's that much.
0:55:21I was wondering if it might be a little bit cheaper, like 250.
0:55:23- Yeah.
0:55:24Did you see, I know you mentioned this too in your article,
0:55:28that there's a new generation of Moto 360s
0:55:31that are still, they're still 270s.
0:55:34Even a year later, they've still got the flat tire design.
0:55:39(laughing)
0:55:41I thought you made a mistake earlier.
0:55:43I get it now.
0:55:44When you called it a 270.
0:55:46- Oh, I've been doing that for a while.
0:55:48I've been doing that all year.
0:55:50I think I really want everyone,
0:55:51I wish that they just renamed it Numoto 270.
0:55:54It is smaller, but did you notice that they've come out,
0:56:00and again, I wouldn't call this copying Apple,
0:56:03but it's come out with a very large variety of colors
0:56:07and bands and straps to choose from.
0:56:10I wouldn't say that that's ripping off Apple at all because you know that's just
0:56:17you know that's but it's just interesting to me though that Apple
0:56:21defined this that aspect of the smart watch right away you know that that the
0:56:28way to go is to be you know to have you know get in all the accessories right
0:56:32and cover of a reasonable range of styles which is interesting that they
0:56:40they because they have never done that with the iPhone particularly know the
0:56:46eye or the iPad they'll make they'll make us a couple of cases and that's it
0:56:51yeah yes they had I guess they have a few they have a few iPhone cases now
0:56:56don't they they have like a leather one and a plastic one yeah but they yeah but
0:57:01it's not a big deal it's no it's nowhere near as no and they have lots of watch
0:57:05bands now and that's one of the things that may be coming next week is more
0:57:10bands. Yeah well I one thing I do notice like so for example I saw a ton of
0:57:14iPhones yesterday just because there was a like a huge free music festival this
0:57:21weekend here in Philly it's like Jay-Z and Beyonce and it's like the Budweiser
0:57:27made in America fest or something I mean like seriously like hundreds of
0:57:31thousands of people out on our parkway.
0:57:34And of course I did not go to it,
0:57:37but I went for a run yesterday and I thought,
0:57:39well I'm gonna go, that gives me a target,
0:57:43couple of miles and I can go up there and check it out.
0:57:46Thousands, I mean just thousands of people
0:57:48were heading towards it and lots and lots of people
0:57:52with their phones out.
0:57:53And it just struck me yesterday that it just seems like
0:57:58almost everybody has a phone or an iPhone
0:58:01and I could tell, you know,
0:58:03you can always tell from the camera placement
0:58:05if it's an iPhone, 'cause the iPhone's the only one
0:58:06that has it up in the corner.
0:58:08And that everybody has a case,
0:58:10and that I don't think I saw anybody
0:58:13with the same case as each other.
0:58:14Like, I think if I had taken a picture
0:58:16of every single person I saw with an iPhone,
0:58:18and it would have been dozens and dozens of people,
0:58:20that no two people have the same case.
0:58:24It's tons of variety there.
0:58:26And I kind of feel like that's a less,
0:58:28I feel like Apple has sort of embraced that.
0:58:30And the more I think about it as the years gone on,
0:58:32like that that's why the camera bump is there.
0:58:36That's why they were willing to live with it
0:58:38'cause they realized that most people
0:58:40were gonna use it in a case anyway.
0:58:41And so the camera bump doesn't matter.
0:58:44Even though for people like me,
0:58:45it breaks my heart every single day.
0:58:47(laughing)
0:58:48- The camera bump?
0:58:49- Yeah, every day.
0:58:50There's not a day,
0:58:52not a single day has gone by in the last year
0:58:54that it has not occurred to me,
0:58:55at least at some point when my finger
0:58:57has encountered that bump that ugh,
0:58:59This is gross.
0:59:00- Wow.
0:59:03- Every day.
0:59:04- I feel like I've gotten used to it.
0:59:05- No, no.
0:59:06- I don't feel like I give it too much of a thought.
0:59:09- Oh, well I--
0:59:11- And you don't use a case, right?
0:59:12- No, I've never used a case.
0:59:14Months ago, for months I thought, like last year,
0:59:16I thought, well that's something that they could fix
0:59:18next year with the 6S, 'cause even with the S year
0:59:21where they don't really change the physical design,
0:59:24surely they could just make the camera flush with the back.
0:59:27but now I'm thinking I'm not expecting it next week.
0:59:31It's funny 'cause it's the way that I obsess
0:59:33over these tiny little details that most people don't.
0:59:37It's like the main thing I'm curious about for next week
0:59:40is whether or not the new phones will have a bump.
0:59:42I think they probably will because I think that they've,
0:59:45I think that they've kind of given into the fact
0:59:47that most people use the phone in a case.
0:59:49- Well, I mean, but isn't the reason
0:59:53there's a bump simply physics?
0:59:56- Yeah, yeah, but they, you know.
1:00:00- So they, in order to get the right focal length, right?
1:00:03- Right.
1:00:03- It has to be a certain depth,
1:00:05and because they want the phone to be thinner,
1:00:08at some point, the camera has to stick out.
1:00:11- Well, or if it didn't stick out,
1:00:14it would be a--
1:00:16- Crappier camera.
1:00:17- Right, it would be a less visually,
1:00:19you know, what would be the word?
1:00:20It would be a worse camera.
1:00:21- Right.
1:00:22- You know, at some point, you know,
1:00:23but they could make it stick out more
1:00:24and have it be better.
1:00:26- Yeah. (laughs)
1:00:28I think it should be telescoping.
1:00:30- Right.
1:00:31I think that the old Apple, I think prior to last year,
1:00:35I think that it was just non-negotiable though
1:00:37that it was gonna be flush and that they would,
1:00:40here's how thick we'll make it with,
1:00:43taking all these factors into how thick
1:00:45the thing is gonna be, how strong it is,
1:00:46how much battery they need, how can,
1:00:49I think how thick an iPhone is is probably
1:00:52an incredibly complex equation.
1:00:55- Oh, sure.
1:00:56just decide it's all of these factors how strong it is is it gonna you know is
1:01:00it gonna bend famously and you know how good how good will the camera be and I
1:01:06think it's you know I think before though they'd come to some conclusion
1:01:10and then they would make the best camera that would fit in that flush whereas
1:01:14last year they you know said we can make it this then but then the camera is kind
1:01:18to kind of be crap and they like you know took a shot of whiskey. I just
1:01:26imagined it I just imagined that Johnny I've really had to take it oh yeah here
1:01:30to take us to had to take a stiff drink to it's not like being told that physics
1:01:35is the way it was let's take a break and then we'll talk about it okay because I
1:01:40have to tell you about my good friends at fracture these guys keep coming back
1:01:45keep sponsoring the show and the reason is that people keep buying pictures from them and that's
1:01:49great. These are the guys, you guys know it, I know everybody's, unless you're a new listener,
1:01:55you know who Fracture is. They're a service you send your digital photos to them and they print
1:02:01them directly on glass. Not really on the front of the glass, it's actually behind the glass,
1:02:07but it's an incredibly thin piece of glass. All sorts of sizes ranging from little desktop ones,
1:02:14little square ones, to big 23 by 29 ones, which is a really, really big size. Really, really thin piece
1:02:21of glass. They print your image on the back of it so it shines through, but it's so thin it really
1:02:26does look like it's on the surface of the glass. And again, it's like that same effect as like when
1:02:33Apple started laminating the iPhone displays to the touchscreen to the glass, where it no longer
1:02:39look like pixels under glass, it looked like pixels on the glass. That's exactly what these
1:02:43fracture prints look like. Really, really neat effect. But also, and I'm stealing this from
1:02:50Marco's read on an ATP recently, and I didn't really think about this until Marco said it,
1:02:55but because their glass is so thin, their pictures are super, super lightweight.
1:03:00And I've noticed that with the ones we have in our house too. It's usually with a reasonably sized
1:03:05picture and the frame and everything. It's a big heavy thing on the wall. And I know there's,
1:03:09you know you get the special things you tap in the wall and it's you know it all
1:03:12every time I hang up used to hang up pictures I used to think this is never
1:03:15this is never gonna and I'm not handy so it's like I feel like you know I'm gonna
1:03:22have to call someone then when there's you know the picture collapses and takes
1:03:25out a big chunk of the wall I never we get earthquakes out here - yes you got a
1:03:29real thing the fractures they're so lightweight I never have to worry I
1:03:33never I have a bunch of them hang around the house and I realized that they're
1:03:36the only pictures I've ever hung where I haven't walked, stepped away from it,
1:03:40thinking I'm gonna watch this fall in ten seconds. Really, really lightweight.
1:03:44It's just great. It's so great that if you've ever tried this, you're never
1:03:49gonna... it has occurred to me, and I really do believe this, you're never ever going
1:03:54to hang your own photographs by printing it on paper and then putting them in a
1:03:58frame again. You're never gonna use anything but fracture. And it solves so
1:04:03many other problems too. Another problem, I have, like you go to Ikea and buy a frame
1:04:06and you put a picture in there. I never get the damn picture to sit so that when you close
1:04:12the thing up and you put all the clasps in and it just drops a little bit and you see
1:04:16like a piece of the backing behind the thing in there.
1:04:20Or your thumb, or your thumb prints on the inside of the glass.
1:04:22Yeah, it's, it's a mess. Like the old way of doing it. I've, I've been thinking about
1:04:27this lately because I've been trying to think of new things to say about fracture and that's
1:04:29another one. It's like the old way of doing it where you have a picture that's
1:04:33printed out and you put it in a frame. It's a huge pain in the ass. It's an
1:04:37enormous pain in the ass. Fracture solves all these problems. So anytime you need
1:04:41to print a picture, just go to Fracture. I can't even see why you would do
1:04:45anything else. Now here's the other thing. You can... what's the code for... I don't
1:04:50even know. The goddamn notes don't have a code, but I could probably find it. I'll
1:04:54bet they've sponsored the show recently. I'll just go to my website. Probably the
1:04:59talk show? What do you think? What's your guess? That would be my guess.
1:05:04Nope. Daring Fireball. We should just make it a game. Let's make it a game for
1:05:12all these sponsors what the code is. Well anyway, use that code daring fireball
1:05:17when you go to fracture. Fractureme.com is their URL. Go there. Use that code
1:05:21when you print your pictures out and you will save 15% off your first order. I
1:05:27I really do mean this in complete sincerity.
1:05:31Even if they never sponsored my show again,
1:05:32I can't imagine why anybody else would,
1:05:34why you would ever print a photo any other way
1:05:36to hang on your wall than to go to fracture.
1:05:39It's that good and that easy.
1:05:41So my thanks to them.
1:05:42Go buy some pictures.
1:05:43All right, what else we got?
1:05:47We got next week.
1:05:48Should we talk about next week?
1:05:49- Next week, which is technically this week.
1:05:52- Technically this week.
1:05:54So in a couple days I will be flying to California.
1:05:57And Apple is having an event.
1:06:02- It's Wednesday, right?
1:06:03- It's a Wednesday event which is,
1:06:05it's easy to figure out why.
1:06:08I'm not smart until somebody else told me this,
1:06:11but it's because they didn't wanna make people fly
1:06:14on Labor Day.
1:06:15Apple loves us, we in the media, so much.
1:06:20- That's very sweet.
1:06:21- So much respect for me that they wanted
1:06:23make sure I got a complete three-day weekend
1:06:26to relax from my backbreaking schedule
1:06:30so that I didn't have to fly on Monday.
1:06:34And I guess, presumably, so that Apple themselves
1:06:37wouldn't have to work, you know,
1:06:40I don't know, I'm gonna guess that most of the people
1:06:42involved in this event are probably pretty busy this weekend
1:06:44that they're not really relaxing, but--
1:06:46- Yeah, no. (laughs)
1:06:49- Anyway. - Yeah, which is kinda,
1:06:50which probably stinks, right?
1:06:51I mean, like, school starts for us this week.
1:06:55- Yeah, same here.
1:06:56- I think in California it started already though.
1:06:58- Yeah.
1:06:59- I think it started last week,
1:07:00'cause somebody, I mentioned that to somebody else,
1:07:03and they said now school started last week.
1:07:05- Yeah, and there are a lot of places in Pennsylvania now
1:07:07that start in, started last week too,
1:07:09which is crazy to me.
1:07:11There are a lot of places that start in August,
1:07:13which to me just seems criminal.
1:07:15- Yeah, yeah.
1:07:16Although, I mean, this year, Labor Day is really late.
1:07:18- Yeah, it is really late.
1:07:19- So starting after Labor Day is kind of like.
1:07:22- Yeah.
1:07:23But there are also, I guess too,
1:07:25you know what it might be?
1:07:26It might be too that I would not be surprised one bit
1:07:31if this facility that the place has some kind of union
1:07:35workers that cannot be, have to get off for Labor Day.
1:07:40- Yeah.
1:07:41- And that they need, they definitely need to be in there
1:07:44doing stuff the day before.
1:07:45So anyway, it's all because of Labor Day.
1:07:48Thanks, Labor Day.
1:07:49(laughing)
1:07:50- Thanks for nothing.
1:07:51- All right.
1:07:52- So one of the things that might,
1:07:56okay, so new phones, right?
1:07:58- New phones are a sure thing.
1:07:59I think that there is the surest thing
1:08:02in the universe regarding this event.
1:08:04- Yeah, yeah.
1:08:06And Mark Gurman says they might actually be thicker.
1:08:10- Yeah.
1:08:12- Just slightly, maybe for most people,
1:08:15imperceptibly thicker.
1:08:16- Yeah, I think that that's,
1:08:18I think he's not even alone in reporting that.
1:08:21A lot of the stuff that's come out,
1:08:23goddamn kid has some sources.
1:08:25- Yeah.
1:08:26- Although some of them it's weird,
1:08:27it's weird who some of his sources are.
1:08:30I know him well enough and I do trust him.
1:08:35I think every single word he writes is true,
1:08:39but that doesn't mean that all the things
1:08:40he says are gonna happen are gonna happen.
1:08:42Like he's always, you know, he'll say that, you know,
1:08:44like he gave away the name of the force touch screen,
1:08:49that it's the 3D touch screen,
1:08:51that's what they're gonna call it.
1:08:53But that his source,
1:08:53and this is just like yesterday or the day before,
1:08:55but his sources said that it could change.
1:08:58Well, it's like, I believe him that somebody within Apple
1:09:02told him that at some point they were thinking
1:09:04about calling it the 3D touch screen
1:09:06or whatever he says they're gonna call it.
1:09:08But if his source really knew,
1:09:11they would, you know, today,
1:09:13like five days before the event,
1:09:14They would know it for a fact, you know what I mean?
1:09:17So like, what he wrote is exactly true,
1:09:20that it could come out with another name,
1:09:23but that at some point that's what they were thinking about.
1:09:25But that just, you know, but it's not surprising though.
1:09:28- It's not changing in between the time
1:09:30that the article is being published
1:09:32and the time of the announcement.
1:09:34They're not changing the name behind the scenes
1:09:38and then running out and sanding it off of--
1:09:41- Right.
1:09:42a bunch of boxes or whatever, reprinting a bunch of--
1:09:46- Yeah, 3D, he says they're gonna call it
1:09:48the 3D Touch Display, which seems reasonable,
1:09:51because it's got some kind of force.
1:09:52- Yeah, it's a technology that not everybody is.
1:09:57- Yeah.
1:09:57- Well, although, I mean, I guess it's gonna be,
1:10:00if it's a feature that's one of the,
1:10:03we're on the talk here, right?
1:10:06And so they have to play up whatever they add
1:10:09to in order to get people to go with that phone.
1:10:12- Yeah. - So the force touch aspect
1:10:15of it actually becomes a big deal.
1:10:18- Yeah, yeah. - And the technology behind it
1:10:20becomes the kind of thing that you use to sell the idea
1:10:24of, okay, you can touch on things and you get
1:10:27like a added functionality by the different ways
1:10:32you press on them. - Yeah.
1:10:34I think, though, it's interesting, and he has a couple of,
1:10:39you know, he's written about it before,
1:10:40And a couple of ideas that you,
1:10:43clearly somebody who's seen what they're tinkering with
1:10:45has spilled this to them,
1:10:48that if you force touch on an icon on the home screen
1:10:51that you'll get a menu of options
1:10:54of what to do with the app,
1:10:56or that you could jump to something within the app.
1:10:58So you could like, just on the home screen, force touch.
1:11:01This is an example that Germin gave you.
1:11:03Force touch on the phone app,
1:11:05and you'll get an option that would let you
1:11:07jump right to voicemail,
1:11:08so you don't have to launch the app
1:11:10and I don't know if that's actually even easier.
1:11:14But anyway, that's what he says.
1:11:16But he doesn't really have a lot, though,
1:11:18about what they're gonna do with force touch.
1:11:20- How it's gonna work, yeah.
1:11:21- Yeah, and it's just interesting
1:11:26how far down the chain his sources are,
1:11:29because somebody within Apple knows everything about it,
1:11:31and I think that they've done, actually,
1:11:34a reasonably good job of keeping that under wraps.
1:11:38- There hasn't been any, you know,
1:11:41no screenshots, no anything.
1:11:44- So, Gorman has said though that it's both,
1:11:46'cause you know, Apple's using this for stuff
1:11:48in different ways, right?
1:11:49Like, on the MacBooks, it's a physical thing
1:11:54where you press it and it gives you this false sensation
1:12:00that there's a physical click.
1:12:02On the watch, it doesn't feel like it clicks,
1:12:07It's just, it uses the--
1:12:09- The vibration.
1:12:10- Yeah, it uses the Taptic Engine,
1:12:12but it doesn't feel like the screen clicks.
1:12:14It feels like the watch itself is--
1:12:15- Yeah, you're feeling it, right.
1:12:16- Yeah, it just gives you a tap,
1:12:18but it doesn't feel like the screen clicks.
1:12:20I wonder, you know, which way,
1:12:26and it doesn't seem clear to me from the rumors,
1:12:28and I'm glad, I'm kind of excited to find out how it works,
1:12:30like which way the phones are gonna work.
1:12:32Is it just gonna be like once in a while you force tap
1:12:36and the phone will give you a vibration
1:12:38to let you know that yes, that registered as a phone tap,
1:12:42which is I think what's more likely,
1:12:45because it seems simpler,
1:12:46or is it gonna be more like the MacBook keyboard
1:12:49where when you click buttons on the screen,
1:12:51it feels like the screen is clicking where you tapped it?
1:12:53- Yeah.
1:12:54- Which would be kind of amazing,
1:12:55but I'm almost like that's what I'm hoping for,
1:12:57but I almost feel like--
1:12:58- Yeah, that's what I would hope for too.
1:13:00- Yeah. - Yeah.
1:13:00- But I feel like I'm hoping to hit the lottery,
1:13:04you know what I mean?
1:13:05I don't feel like that's a realistic hope.
1:13:07- A realistic hope, yeah.
1:13:09Well, that may be.
1:13:10And I wonder if the thickness is related to that screen
1:13:13or if the thickness is more battery.
1:13:17- Well, but the rumor, and again,
1:13:19we're all dependent on Germin here,
1:13:21but I think it was Germin at least
1:13:22who says that the batteries are actually smaller.
1:13:25Now, that could just,
1:13:28that they're actually fewer megawatt hours.
1:13:30- Physically smaller.
1:13:31Oh, oh, oh, we actually use less power?
1:13:33- Yeah, slightly, whatever that,
1:13:34what's the metric for batteries, megawatt hours,
1:13:36whatever it is.
1:13:37Those numbers that are like in the 1800, 2000 range,
1:13:43that they're actually a little smaller in both phones.
1:13:45But that could be though, could be the same thing,
1:13:47that to fit the forced screen in there
1:13:50and whatever else they're fitting in,
1:13:51left less room for battery.
1:13:54So they made it a little thicker so they could at least,
1:13:57if they hadn't made it thicker,
1:13:59then the battery would even be smaller
1:14:00than the actual decrease that they're gonna do, right?
1:14:04Yeah, they had to decrease the battery because of whatever the else they're putting in there
1:14:09And if they hadn't made it a little thicker they would have had to make it even more of a drop
1:14:14Yeah, are you in the the more battery camp because there was a big sort of
1:14:19Surge of people within the last year who were saying enough with making them thinner. Just make the battery last longer
1:14:26Yeah
1:14:29Yeah, I I think if they asked me I would rather have the iPhone 7
1:14:35Not decrease and in fact here I'm just looking at 9 to 5 Mac. There's actually a report here. Just not a German
1:14:43It's they're reporting on
1:14:45Ming Chi quo who knows you know, these a
1:14:48KGI analyst over in Asia who's had pretty good supply chain sources
1:14:54He says that next year's phone which you know would according to
1:14:59Plans be or to tradition be the iPhone 7 is going to be as thin as the iPhone
1:15:04iPod touches
1:15:06That's actually been that's actually been the case all along
1:15:10I it maybe not exactly to the tenth of a millimeter, but at least in general
1:15:14every you know the way that after the first round the the
1:15:18Actually even from the original even the original iPod touch was thinner than the iPhone
1:15:23iPhones have always gotten next-generation iPhones have always been as thick as the iPod touches that came out before
1:15:30like the current iPhone 6 is as thin as the
1:15:34iPod touch and so when the iPod touch the current design came out, you know the one that originally came with the wristband
1:15:42wrist strap attachment
1:15:45That was when
1:15:47The iPhone 5 came out and
1:15:51I remember I've said this before I was I remember it was that so the iPhone 5 came out and was really nice
1:15:58I think I'd still like my favorite hardware design
1:16:01Really really nice, but it came out alongside those iPod touches and I remember at the press event
1:16:08I was hanging around with mg ciggler and we that the table with the iPhones was super crowded three deep
1:16:14everybody wanted to and and
1:16:17These people on a deadline at these events are always
1:16:20There I don't know they're very rude
1:16:22but everybody wants to get pictures right and so when you read these reports and
1:16:28Like from home of people at the press people at this event and they're showing pictures from the hands-on area
1:16:35It they're usually good photos and the people taking the photos are pretty good at framing
1:16:41but it's it's actually behind the scenes there if you're there, it's actually really like there's a lot of
1:16:49of jostling to get everybody else's hands out of the way,
1:16:54so that they can get a shot of just the phone
1:16:57and make it look nice.
1:16:58It's actually, really, I don't know.
1:17:03I just wait.
1:17:04I wait until it clears out and then I go over.
1:17:08So MG and I went over to the iPod table
1:17:11'cause it was mostly clear.
1:17:12And we had spent a couple seconds with the iPhone 5
1:17:16and we were both excited about it and it looks really nice.
1:17:17And then we looked at this iPod,
1:17:19and we're like, holy crap is this thin.
1:17:21This blow, you know, we didn't even,
1:17:24we didn't even get to use the new iPhone 5 yet.
1:17:26And we were already like kinda disappointed
1:17:28by how thick it was because these iPods are so amazing.
1:17:31But that's how thin the iPhone 6 was two years later.
1:17:34And so it's always been the case.
1:17:36And now here Ming-Chi Kuo is saying
1:17:38that next year's is gonna be as, you know, even thinner.
1:17:42And so I, you know, that's the way Apple rolls.
1:17:47but I'm with you, I would rather have them just say,
1:17:50this is thin enough, and just fill it with battery.
1:17:53- Oh, I'm actually not in that camp.
1:17:55Well, not necessarily.
1:17:56I get enough battery life,
1:17:57I don't go anywhere for the most part,
1:17:59so I have enough battery life to get through the day,
1:18:03and then I recharge it with the watch.
1:18:05So I don't usually have much of a problem.
1:18:08And if I do go someplace, I'm usually driving my car,
1:18:10I just plug it into the car.
1:18:11- Yeah, I will say that, and I will say too,
1:18:13I don't feel strongly about it,
1:18:14because I'm trying to remember the last time my phone died
1:18:18before the end of the day.
1:18:19And it might actually be the case
1:18:23that it was a previous iPhone,
1:18:24that I've never once not gotten through the day
1:18:27in the last year with my iPhone 6.
1:18:29- I think the problem is more the incidents
1:18:33that I have that are somehow software-caused,
1:18:36because occasionally the phone will just inexplicably
1:18:39start losing battery life like crazy.
1:18:42Like one day I'll wake up and it'll just be much,
1:18:46draining much faster than it did the previous day
1:18:48for no apparent reason.
1:18:50And usually just rebooting the phone clears it up.
1:18:54Or it clears up on its own for some reason
1:18:56that I haven't been able to fathom.
1:18:58- Yeah. - So I think,
1:19:00I don't know if it's managing processes better
1:19:05or what it is, but there's some software related thing
1:19:08that's more the problem than the battery size.
1:19:12- Yeah, and one reason I've been able to get through
1:19:15the year without ever one time at my phone dive
1:19:18at the end of the day is that when I anticipate
1:19:21that I'm gonna be using it heavily in a bandwidth
1:19:24or in a battery draining situation,
1:19:26like Disney World is a perfect example,
1:19:27a day at Disney World, sorry,
1:19:29I take a standalone Mophie pack with me,
1:19:33and to me that's a reasonable trade-off,
1:19:35so I don't feel strongly about it.
1:19:37But you do think Apple's right to keep making them thinner?
1:19:41- Well, I wouldn't, I don't know.
1:19:43I mean, I would think what would be right
1:19:46is what hits the most users.
1:19:49And I don't really know which one that is.
1:19:52One of the things that I will say though,
1:19:54is that the only thing that I ever looked,
1:19:58when I looked at Android phones over the years,
1:20:00the only thing that I was ever covetous of
1:20:02was their thinner, was the ones that were super thin.
1:20:06And so this phone is now,
1:20:09I mean, I feel like the six is thin enough.
1:20:11I want it to be smaller across,
1:20:15but I'm not gonna get that this year, it doesn't look like.
1:20:18- I asked Schiller about that on stage, right?
1:20:20I'm not misremembering that,
1:20:22'cause if I didn't, I wanted to.
1:20:23- The battery, the battery thing?
1:20:25- Yeah. - Yes, yeah, yeah.
1:20:26I think you did.
1:20:27- Yeah, and I seem to recall his answer was,
1:20:32it wasn't really a concrete, look,
1:20:34here's a XYZ, therefore they get thinner.
1:20:37It's more or less, you know, more or less--
1:20:40- We're trying to do both kind of thing.
1:20:42- Well, no, I think it was a very polite way
1:20:45of saying that I was wrong.
1:20:46And I believe him, you know what I mean?
1:20:48They know, he's got access to information
1:20:51that I don't have.
1:20:51And I do think part of it too is it is a factor,
1:20:55it's a lust factor, right?
1:20:57Which is, look, they're in the business
1:20:59of selling new iPhones.
1:21:01That's the business, right?
1:21:03And part of that, a huge part of that
1:21:05is to keep iPhone users happy
1:21:08so that they come back and buy another one.
1:21:10And so obviously that it is a balancing act
1:21:13'cause they don't wanna make it so crazy thin
1:21:15that everybody's batteries die,
1:21:17in which case, you know, people would be,
1:21:20it would be a very likely reason
1:21:21that would make someone switch
1:21:22is if they really felt like
1:21:24their battery was dying every day.
1:21:26So they definitely wanna avoid that.
1:21:28But I think a huge factor though
1:21:30is that showroom appeal, right?
1:21:32That you're in the, you go in the Apple store
1:21:34think maybe I'll buy a new iPhone and then you see it and it fills your heart
1:21:37with that lust and then all of a sudden you're walking you don't even remember
1:21:41what happened you're walking out you have a new iPhone the battery streamed
1:21:45already that's obviously that is that's that's part of the appeal right the
1:21:50batteries did let me get to the car the the those crazy cool phones from looper
1:21:58remember that you've seen looper right I have seen the bread I don't remember the
1:22:02- What are the phones for though?
1:22:03- Oh, it was just a piece of glass.
1:22:04It was just glass.
1:22:06Just a piece of glass, and when you,
1:22:09it's like clear when it's off,
1:22:11and you turn it on and the screen fills up.
1:22:14It was like insane, literally could not be thinner.
1:22:17You wouldn't want it thinner, unless it was like paper.
1:22:19It couldn't be thinner unless it was
1:22:21more like an index card than glass.
1:22:23I think clearly that's where we're heading.
1:22:29I don't know how we get there,
1:22:31but thinner is unavoidable.
1:22:34I guess what I would say is,
1:22:36I think Apple maybe should just,
1:22:39if they wanted my advice,
1:22:41maybe dial back on that a little bit
1:22:43in favor of battery life.
1:22:45So anyway, what are we talking about, new iPhones?
1:22:51Force Touch, 3D display, Touch Display.
1:22:55- Better camera.
1:22:56- Yeah, so my thought too,
1:22:58I've said this before,
1:22:58but my thought, if my dream comes true
1:23:00and the taps you feel 'em when you press,
1:23:03it would be that you can actually feel the keyboard
1:23:07when you're typing.
1:23:08Like, and again, that sounds to me too good to be true.
1:23:13But boy, that would be cool if they pulled that off.
1:23:17That would be-- - Yeah,
1:23:18that seems awful fine.
1:23:20- Right, right, and really fast, right?
1:23:23'Cause it would have to, you know,
1:23:25to be useful at all, it would have to have like no latency.
1:23:29- Yeah.
1:23:30Have you ever used an Android phone that vibrates when you type?
1:23:33No.
1:23:34Yeah, I think my Nexus, whatever.
1:23:38I don't have the latest and greatest Nexus.
1:23:40I have a year-old Nexus that I bought.
1:23:42Oh, no, no, I didn't buy the Nexus.
1:23:46I bought the Motorola one with the wooden back, whatever it's called.
1:23:49I don't remember.
1:23:50When you type on it, it's an option.
1:23:55You can obviously turn it off.
1:23:57When you type on it, it vibrates with each tap.
1:23:59and it does a very good job of not falling behind,
1:24:04but I just don't find it to be useful.
1:24:07I don't know why.
1:24:09But if it was localized right where,
1:24:12if it felt like I was actually clicking the key
1:24:15on the screen, that would be awesome.
1:24:18I don't think that's possible.
1:24:19I sure hope so.
1:24:20What else is coming out with the phone?
1:24:23Oh, you asked why do I think they made it thicker.
1:24:26I guess we covered that.
1:24:28Did you see the report, did you see the video
1:24:30where the one guy, the baseball cap guy,
1:24:33you know, I mean, he's like the unboxed Joe.
1:24:38I think his name is unboxed Joe.
1:24:40He's a YouTuber and he always wears
1:24:43a baseball cap backwards and he's the guy
1:24:46who kinda got the whole Ben Gate thing rolling last year.
1:24:49When he bent, he's the guy who bent the phone with his hands.
1:24:56somehow he procured what was claimed to be a iPhone 6s frame,
1:25:01just the aluminum part.
1:25:06And he had a very, you know,
1:25:09I'm kind of ripping on him here,
1:25:11but he had a really good video where he took it
1:25:13to like a serious like, you know, engineering shop,
1:25:17and they like tested the,
1:25:20they used some kind of fancy equipment
1:25:21to test the aluminum and sort of prove
1:25:23it's like a it's like a new like 7,000 series aluminum right right i had heard that part
1:25:30i had heard that part but i did not know that it came from there yeah uh unbox therapy is his name
1:25:38okay and that's kind of i mean they did that with they improved the materials between the
1:25:42five and the 5s as well uh yeah i think so too but yeah because my five my i had i had the space gray
1:25:49five at scratch to hell, but not so with the Space Grade 5S.
1:25:54- Yeah, so I'll put that in the show notes, hopefully.
1:25:58But yeah, Unbox Therapy has an interesting video.
1:26:03And it almost certainly is a legit,
1:26:05I don't know how this stuff, you know,
1:26:07somebody smoke it out of a factory in Foxconn
1:26:10and somehow send it to him.
1:26:11But he also stress tested it and like measured
1:26:14how many foot pounds of force it takes
1:26:15to actually bend the frame.
1:26:16And it's like enormously more durable
1:26:19than the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.
1:26:22- I hope the iPad Pro's made out of the same stuff.
1:26:26- Ah, I want to.
1:26:28(laughing)
1:26:29- You're like crazy, right?
1:26:31- What else?
1:26:35Gurman says that they're going to keep
1:26:37both the 6 and the 6 Plus in the lineup.
1:26:42You know, that, which I think makes sense.
1:26:45I think, you know, and it's also widely reported,
1:26:49because there's none of these supply chain links.
1:26:52It's almost, the lack of leaks of a 6C,
1:26:57plastic 6C, which you and I were thinking they would do
1:27:02when we talk like a month ago.
1:27:04Hoping they would do.
1:27:05But I've given up all hope on that,
1:27:06because there's no way they're gonna do that.
1:27:09I think they're gonna do the most obvious thing possible,
1:27:11which is what they've done.
1:27:12Every other year other than that 5C year
1:27:14is just move last year's phone down.
1:27:16And the fact that there were two last year,
1:27:18it just means there's two now this year, you know, and that you can choose the 4.7 inch or the 5.5 inch and whatever.
1:27:24Well, maybe next year. Yeah, I don't think so. You don't think even next year really? Yeah, I've come around
1:27:37I've changed my mind. I think that the four inch phones are gone forever.
1:27:42Well, there was a there was even a rumor though that that they were I mean
1:27:45this was just like a prototype, but that they had a 3.5 inch phone.
1:27:49That they were working on. I heard that. I'm surprised. Uh,
1:27:54I don't think so though. I just don't, I don't, I don't see them doing that.
1:27:57I'm not surprised that they tinkered with it, but, um,
1:28:01I don't know. I just kind of, my gut feeling now, I hope I'm wrong. I do.
1:28:07I still do hope I'm wrong and I would love to see them come out with a new four
1:28:10inch phone or even smaller. I probably would not buy smaller,
1:28:14but I would be very tempted to buy a new 4 inch one that had good specs, but.
1:28:18If I could get this year specs in a 4 inch phone,
1:28:21I would definitely get the 4 inch phone over over the 4.7.
1:28:24Right. I wouldn't hesitate either. I would definitely do it.
1:28:26But I think the problem that it will obviously be that you won't get this year
1:28:30specs you get last year's.
1:28:31Yeah. The best that we could hope for is to, uh, to get it,
1:28:36to get like the equivalent of a 5C.
1:28:38A last year specs in a smaller size. Uh, they got a new,
1:28:43supposedly a new rose gold color.
1:28:45I don't really care.
1:28:49I'm not surprised that the only time
1:28:54the only time that I have been tempted by
1:28:56or actually thought that I should have
1:28:58gotten a different color was the.
1:28:59Five partially because like
1:29:03I like I said, the space gray one
1:29:04nicked like crazy.
1:29:06Yeah, and I also just really liked
1:29:09that shape in the white color.
1:29:12I know we're repeating ourselves here, but the space gray one that nicked really easily.
1:29:19The first couple of nicks annoyed me, and then once it kind of all got scuffed up, I thought it really looked good.
1:29:25Like in a Star Wars beat up. You know what I mean?
1:29:30I thought in a way that your jeans looked good after you've worn them a couple times.
1:29:36You know?
1:29:37I don't know.
1:29:38I thought it had like a cool, you know, I don't know.
1:29:40I'm sure somebody at Apple is dying hearing that
1:29:45because they don't really--
1:29:46- It may not look like much,
1:29:47but you just gotta work it out.
1:29:49- I don't know that Apple was shooting for
1:29:50it looks good scuffed up.
1:29:51- No, I don't think so either.
1:29:53But you know, but I still got my original iPhones
1:29:57and they're dinged like crazy too, scuffed.
1:30:00- What else with iPhones?
1:30:03Is there anything else with iPhone that we expect?
1:30:06- I don't think so.
1:30:07I mean, I think the big stuff is other things, right?
1:30:09I mean, this is the talk here,
1:30:11so it's gonna be same form factor
1:30:13and just like, you know, possibly the Siri this year
1:30:16is the Force Touch stuff.
1:30:19- Yeah, that's what I think.
1:30:21I guess a wildcard would be whether there's like
1:30:24a serious big worth bragging about improvement
1:30:26to the camera, but I'm not really expecting that.
1:30:29I just feel like, you know,
1:30:31there'll be some kind of improvement,
1:30:32whether it's megapixels or something,
1:30:34but I don't think it'll be like a great leap forward.
1:30:38- Yeah.
1:30:39- I talked months ago, maybe even a year ago,
1:30:43where I had heard from, as they say, a little birdie,
1:30:46that Apple was working on a thing with a two-camera system,
1:30:50which I don't really understand the physics of,
1:30:52and I've read some pieces from people
1:30:53speculating about how that would work,
1:30:55and it is fascinating to me,
1:30:56but the basic gist is that there'd be a camera,
1:30:59a camera that has two lenses right next to each other,
1:31:02So sort of like, I guess it would be closer though,
1:31:07but it would just be two circles right next to each other
1:31:10and that somehow it's like one is focusing far
1:31:14and one's focusing near and then somehow
1:31:16it gives amazing results in the resulting image,
1:31:19like SLR quality photos.
1:31:22And I think I wrote about it, not podcasted about it,
1:31:25and I said the next iPhone.
1:31:27And I didn't mean this year's,
1:31:31I didn't mean that it was something for the success.
1:31:33I meant the next iPhone like the next iPhone form factor
1:31:35because I don't think that that sort of thing
1:31:38they would ever do in the S year
1:31:40because it would break the rules of the S year.
1:31:44Like the S year rules are that the phone's supposed to fit
1:31:48in last year's cases.
1:31:50Which I guess is interesting if it is thicker,
1:31:52like you said, like how many cases will still fit the phone?
1:31:56That's interesting.
1:31:57- Well they see, I mean, Germin seemed to think
1:31:58that it should still fit all of it.
1:31:59- Yeah, 'cause it's-- - So it's not that much thicker.
1:32:02- Yeah, it sounds like it's, you know,
1:32:04like the difference in thickness,
1:32:06you really would have to take out calipers and measure it.
1:32:09- Yeah. - You probably couldn't do it
1:32:10with your hands.
1:32:11- Do you think they're gonna have trouble
1:32:15blowing past last year's numbers,
1:32:18because last year's numbers were so huge,
1:32:19and because they had a pent-up demand
1:32:23of people who wanted a larger phone?
1:32:25- I think that that's probably true.
1:32:28I think, and I just feel like the anecdotal explanation
1:32:31that you just gave, just a basic, you know,
1:32:34lots of people had heard that they were gonna do
1:32:37a bigger phone for long enough.
1:32:41You know, like that rumor was over a year old.
1:32:44And you know, it's weird.
1:32:45It's weird the way that like regular people know
1:32:47about Apple rumors now.
1:32:49You know, 'cause people would ask me, you know,
1:32:52in advance, is Apple really gonna do a bigger phone?
1:32:54And the fact that people were asking me that was like,
1:32:56wow, people really do want bigger phones.
1:32:59And I think you're right,
1:33:00that there's an awful lot of people
1:33:01who put off buying an iPhone
1:33:04that overly inflated last year's iPhone sales.
1:33:08- Yeah.
1:33:09And I think people held off long enough
1:33:13that it's not the kind of thing
1:33:15where the contract is gonna be the issue.
1:33:20So it's not like, okay, well, yeah,
1:33:21but there were those people last year,
1:33:23but there's a whole set of new people
1:33:24who just came off contract for this year.
1:33:26- Yeah, I also think that there might be,
1:33:28it might be tough to meet the sales that they did in China.
1:33:32I don't know though, 'cause it's like they're growing
1:33:34so fast in China, but it felt like last year was the year
1:33:36they were, where they really exploded in China.
1:33:39And that if there was pent up demand,
1:33:42they sold crazy big numbers to meet them.
1:33:44And that they might have trouble doing that,
1:33:46but maybe I'm underestimating just how many,
1:33:49just how many truly like, maybe like tens of millions
1:33:52of first-time iPhone buyers that are going to expand
1:33:56in China year after year.
1:33:57- Yeah, that's kind of what I think will happen.
1:33:59I mean, the economy there is a concern,
1:34:02but it seems like they haven't topped out there yet.
1:34:05Like, they did run up past the Xiaomi, right?
1:34:10- Yeah.
1:34:11- Like in the second quarter, I wanna say.
1:34:14But they were still, I mean, they had good growth,
1:34:20but they weren't big enough in China to that point
1:34:22where they've actually saturated it.
1:34:25- Yeah, and the weird thing too about the economy being weak
1:34:29is that I think it might affect everything
1:34:32other than phones first,
1:34:33because phones have turned into this weird thing
1:34:36that everybody who has one thinks is essential, right?
1:34:40So the economy goes bad and vacation resorts suffer
1:34:45because that's one thing people do
1:34:48like if their investments have gone down
1:34:51or if you're taking a pay cut
1:34:54or if you're a small business owner
1:34:55and the business is down,
1:34:56you'd cut back on vacations, right?
1:34:58Or you cut back on jewelry or, you know,
1:35:02all sorts of things that when the economy goes bad
1:35:04definitely suffer.
1:35:05But I feel like phones maybe are maybe not immune to it
1:35:09but are strong resistance to it
1:35:10because people, even if the economy's bad
1:35:12and you're cutting back in other areas,
1:35:14if you need a new phone, you're still getting a new phone.
1:35:16And if you're gonna get a new phone,
1:35:17you're gonna get the one you want, I think.
1:35:20So I don't know, I feel like the, you know,
1:35:24and I thought it was really, really telling
1:35:26that Tim Cook had that public statement to,
1:35:29what's his name, Jimmy Cramer on CNBC the other week.
1:35:33- That's good, he's going to jail.
1:35:36(laughing)
1:35:39I guess there was a concern he could get fined.
1:35:42- I don't know, you know, Tim Cook seems like
1:35:44such a cautious person, like Steve Jobs
1:35:46was the type of person who, if he wanted to do it,
1:35:49was going to do it.
1:35:49And then he'd figure out the--
1:35:51and infamously, really did get into trouble
1:35:53with the backdating of the stock options.
1:35:57That was, I guess, that was pretty bad.
1:35:59Tim Cook is so deliberate, or at least he seems to be,
1:36:04that I would be very surprised if that hadn't been vetted
1:36:09by Apple's SEC compliance lawyers.
1:36:15It just seems to me like from what I can tell
1:36:18of Tim Cook's personality, that if he wanted to do that,
1:36:21he called up, you know, whether it was
1:36:24their general counsel, you know,
1:36:26it would probably just call the general counsel guy
1:36:27and then say, here's what I wanna do,
1:36:29let me, you know, here's the exact thing
1:36:32I wanna email Jim Cramer, I wanna do it tomorrow at 9 a.m.,
1:36:35is this okay?
1:36:36I would be very surprised if he didn't do that.
1:36:39Now, just because one lawyer at Apple looks at it
1:36:41and says, yeah, that's fine, that doesn't mean, you know,
1:36:43There's been a lot of cases where one lawyer saying it's okay doesn't mean that somebody
1:36:48can do it.
1:36:49But I haven't seen anything that anybody's looking into it.
1:36:51I saw just idle speculation that, you know.
1:36:56What's the gist of the rule?
1:36:57The gist of the rule is, it's just that, yeah, I don't know.
1:37:01I don't know the gist of the rule.
1:37:02Yeah, I don't know either.
1:37:03Something about giving information, any information that you give that would be of interest to
1:37:10some investors, you have to give to all of them.
1:37:13Right.
1:37:14So that there's certain--
1:37:15That sounds right.
1:37:16Yeah, sure.
1:37:17Right.
1:37:17So obviously, the worst example would
1:37:21be if Tim Cook just called Jim Cramer up on the phone.
1:37:25Is it just between me and you?
1:37:27Or, well--
1:37:28Well, yeah, OK, right.
1:37:29Right.
1:37:29Yeah, I mean, it's unlikely.
1:37:31I mean, Jim Cramer is a--
1:37:32he's not a journalist, really.
1:37:33But he's a guy who talks about this stuff in a show.
1:37:38So I think talking to him, it seems
1:37:41Like he's, the point is actually to get it out there.
1:37:44It's what's worse is when you call your buddy.
1:37:46- Yeah, yeah, your friend, yeah.
1:37:47- Yeah.
1:37:48- So obviously that's what it's meant to,
1:37:51that's what the law is in place for.
1:37:55But that there's people who've gotten in trouble for,
1:37:58didn't the Netflix CEO get in trouble
1:38:01for like a blog post where he posted stuff?
1:38:04Like his blog post wasn't officially,
1:38:07or maybe like a tweet or something?
1:38:09- Oh.
1:38:10- That sounds vaguely familiar, yeah.
1:38:13But why would a tweet not be?
1:38:16- I forget what it was.
1:38:17But it, well, that somehow that it,
1:38:20there's certain forms-- - Wasn't reaching yet.
1:38:21It wasn't considered public or something.
1:38:23- Right, like-- - You had to opt in
1:38:25to follow it.
1:38:26- Right, like a press release that goes out
1:38:28on the official press wire, which is weird
1:38:31because it's actually, that's actually something
1:38:32that normal people don't access, but all of the media do,
1:38:37and it's assumed then that everybody has equal access
1:38:39to the media, somehow that, you know, but that's okay.
1:38:42It's just that like tweets had never been
1:38:45okayed by the SEC before.
1:38:49And that they're respected, well only, you know,
1:38:50certain people have access to Twitter
1:38:52because you have to have a cell phone and whatever.
1:38:55- They just didn't get it.
1:38:56- Yeah.
1:38:57- So you wanna talk about the Apple TV?
1:39:01- I do, but I should take a break here
1:39:04and thank another one of our friends.
1:39:06and this time it is our good friend, Automatic.
1:39:11These are the guys who make the connected car adapter.
1:39:16It's a little dongle, I love saying that word.
1:39:19It plugs into your car's diagnostic port.
1:39:22I think it's like every car since like 1997,
1:39:25but it's somewhere around there.
1:39:26It's like every car of recent vintage
1:39:27has one of these ports, and it's a standard port,
1:39:30which is really kind of cool.
1:39:31Like the way that USB is a standard port
1:39:35and HDMI is a standard port.
1:39:36Well, there's a car diagnostic port.
1:39:38It's underneath the dashboard somewhere on your car.
1:39:42And that's when you go to your dealer or to the mechanic,
1:39:46and when your car has a thing that lights up and says,
1:39:49you're due for service A2.
1:39:53You go in there.
1:39:53That's what they plug their stuff into,
1:39:55and then it tells them what it's saying,
1:39:57that your oil filter needs replacement or whatever.
1:40:00Well, you can access that too.
1:40:03And that's what automatic is for.
1:40:04It's this really cool thing.
1:40:05You just plug it in to that diagnostic port
1:40:07and then it uses Bluetooth to talk to their app,
1:40:11which is on your iPhone.
1:40:12And it just tells you,
1:40:15so if you ever get one of those weird things
1:40:16like service, you know, A5,
1:40:19or I don't even know what the things are,
1:40:21and you're worried, like what the hell does that mean?
1:40:23Is that routine?
1:40:24Is my car ready to break?
1:40:25It automatically will explain to you in plain English
1:40:28exactly what's going on,
1:40:29and it even lets you clear the light if you want to,
1:40:31so you don't have to get annoyed by that
1:40:32every time you start the car up.
1:40:34Really cool.
1:40:35Gives you a log of your trips.
1:40:38It uses the GPS on your phone
1:40:40so that when you get out of your car,
1:40:43it will remember where you were parked.
1:40:45It's like anything, it just turns your car into a smart car.
1:40:49Really, really cool.
1:40:50It can even score you on your driving.
1:40:54So if you're like me and you have a lead foot,
1:40:57it'll just tell you, boy, you're driving too fast, John.
1:41:00I mean, that's really what it'll do.
1:41:02They tell you what kind of mileage you're getting, tells you if you drive in a style
1:41:05that's getting you good mileage.
1:41:09Just amazingly cool stuff.
1:41:11So they've added a new thing.
1:41:12They're calling it the App Store for your car.
1:41:15And there's over 20 apps that are available within their thing.
1:41:18And it allows you to use your car's data in all kinds of ways.
1:41:22So you can hook it up to Nest so that your thermostat -- I mean, this is like -- seriously,
1:41:26this is like science fiction stuff.
1:41:28You can have your air conditioning turn on when you get within five miles of your house
1:41:32or whatever you want.
1:41:34Amazing stuff like that if you have Nest.
1:41:36If this, then that integration with all sorts of ways to let you do stuff based automatically
1:41:42on this smart information coming out of your car.
1:41:46Just really great, really fun.
1:41:47It seems like something that ought to be built into your cars, but it's actually kind of
1:41:50cool that you can do it with automatic.
1:41:52It's a standard port, so you don't have to depend on your car maker making an app for
1:41:57your phone. You just use automatics and it's really good. These guys know what they're
1:42:00doing. It's really good design and everything like that. Sounds too good to be true almost,
1:42:05but it's great. I think it's really cool. You can check out the apps at automatic.com/apps.
1:42:11You want to buy it. Here's the thing. It's just $100, $99.95. But you get 20% off by
1:42:20by using this URL, automatic.com/the-talk-show.
1:42:24Now these guys have their act together
1:42:27and gave me the code right there, /the-talk-show.
1:42:32You save 20% off, that's 20 bucks.
1:42:34So you get this thing for 80 bucks, it ships in two days,
1:42:37and they have a 45 day return policy.
1:42:40So 45 days later, 44 days later,
1:42:42you say this thing's, I don't like it, it's nonsense.
1:42:45You just send it back, you get your money back.
1:42:47Nobody's gonna do that 'cause it's cool
1:42:48once you have it in there.
1:42:49I mean, yeah, your car is like, it's like you've got kit.
1:42:52Well, except for the power boost thing.
1:42:55It doesn't give you that.
1:42:57So anyway, go to automatic.com/thetalkshow.
1:43:01You'll save 20%, 80 bucks,
1:43:03and you'll get this really cool thing for your car.
1:43:05If you haven't bought one already, just go do it.
1:43:06It's really cool.
1:43:07So what else?
1:43:12Do you think there's gonna be a Apple TV tomorrow?
1:43:15Not tomorrow, Tuesday, Wednesday.
1:43:18- Wednesday.
1:43:19I sure sure it's been five years
1:43:23Is that right remember that correctly I think that the one that
1:43:31The I think the third the third generation is later is it's just five years in that form factor
1:43:39Maybe yeah, but what did the third one dad? I know that it has
1:43:44Faster and more memory, right? Yeah, and the second one. Oh, it's um, it's what is it 1080 1080p?
1:43:50Yeah, instead of 720
1:43:52Yeah, what's the old one only 720? I think so. Oh, well that that that's kind of gross
1:44:00That's what I have. Yeah. Well, I well no, it's funny as I have the new Apple TV, but I have a 720p TV set
1:44:08Which I don't mind at all. I've got seven. I've got 720 eyes. Oh, by the way, don't
1:44:13- Don't, everybody out there, don't tell my son
1:44:16that our TV is 720.
1:44:17(laughing)
1:44:20Just in case you ever mean.
1:44:22See, the thing is, I have a really,
1:44:25it's probably one of the most beloved possessions I have
1:44:29is a Pioneer Plasma TV.
1:44:33And I got 720 instead of 1080, I don't know when I bought,
1:44:37I think I bought it in like 2006.
1:44:39It's old, really, but I still love it
1:44:41'cause I love Plasma.
1:44:43I love the color of plasma.
1:44:45And I did the math.
1:44:47There's like a calculator where you can--
1:44:48I got like a tape measure and measured where I sit
1:44:51and where our TV is in our house.
1:44:53And there's nowhere else.
1:44:55There's no way to rearrange our TV.
1:44:56It's like we've got one place where we can
1:44:58put a TV in our living room.
1:44:59And we were well within the range of--
1:45:04you will not see the difference between 720 and 1080.
1:45:08So I just saved the money and got the 720.
1:45:11But what seems gross to me is having an Apple TV that
1:45:15can't do 1080.
1:45:17Just the thought of it.
1:45:19Well, not gross.
1:45:20Gross is a little long, but it just seems antiquated.
1:45:251080--
1:45:25Well, they're a year apart.
1:45:27So the most recent one was introduced in March of 2012,
1:45:31and the prior one was March of 2011.
1:45:33So it's not that far.
1:45:34And I know I still have my second one upstairs on a TV
1:45:38that we almost never will watch.
1:45:40but it doesn't have the new software update.
1:45:43It still has the old.
1:45:44- Yeah, well it doesn't take it.
1:45:46- Yeah.
1:45:46- Right, so I've got the old interface.
1:45:50And I had actually never even seen the new one,
1:45:52at least not in use,
1:45:54until I went over to Albert's the other night.
1:45:56- Oh yeah?
1:45:57- 'Cause he's got the--
1:45:58- Yeah, latest and greatest.
1:46:00- Yeah, sure, you know.
1:46:01- I think this is,
1:46:04I'm really excited about this for the event.
1:46:05- Me too.
1:46:06- Because--
1:46:07- I've been dying for one of these forever.
1:46:08- Okay, so we know that there's a new Apple TV,
1:46:11and we know that they're gonna do,
1:46:14well, we don't know, no,
1:46:15but everybody says there's gonna be an app store for it,
1:46:18a full SDK, and there's rumors about a new controller,
1:46:21and we know a little bit about the controller, supposedly,
1:46:23that it's like a touch pad, like I guess, like a Mac--
1:46:28- It's got some physical buttons,
1:46:30and also like a touch, some sort of touch--
1:46:32- Yeah, like a track pad.
1:46:34So, it's, you know, and by all the reports that I've seen,
1:46:39I know a lot of people for so long have said,
1:46:43whenever we speculate on new Apple TVs,
1:46:44and I've always been going on and on,
1:46:47they gotta get rid of this piece of shit remote.
1:46:49They've gotta do something about this goddamn remote.
1:46:52And everybody always says to me,
1:46:53I know what the new, the next Apple TV remote is,
1:46:57it's gonna be your iPhone.
1:46:58You just use your iPhone as the remote.
1:47:00And to me, that's a non-starter.
1:47:05You already can use that remote app, which I don't like.
1:47:08I know some people do.
1:47:09I never, ever use that, other than if I
1:47:12have to enter a password.
1:47:13But usually when I have to enter a password,
1:47:15it's the Wi-Fi password.
1:47:18And you can't enter the Wi-Fi password if-- or I
1:47:21guess you can now.
1:47:22I think they might have done something-- or no,
1:47:24it's a keyboard.
1:47:24You can do a hookup, a physical Bluetooth keyboard to it.
1:47:28which is actually a cool thing if you know about it.
1:47:32So if you're setting up the old Apple,
1:47:34don't buy a new Apple TV right now, by the way.
1:47:36- You should run on buy one right now.
1:47:38- Just to see what the first run experience is like.
1:47:40You can hook up a Bluetooth, your Apple Bluetooth keyboard,
1:47:44or I guess any Bluetooth keyboard to it,
1:47:45and then enter your WiFi password that way,
1:47:47which is a hell of a lot easier
1:47:48than the up, down, left, right, select nonsense.
1:47:52So iPhone is an Apple TV remote.
1:47:57I mean, maybe they'll still have an app for it or whatever,
1:47:59but it's no good.
1:47:59You cannot sell a thing and then tell people
1:48:01that you have to use--
1:48:02- You gotta run out and buy an iPod or an iPad.
1:48:03- A $600 iPhone.
1:48:06And then have one that's in the living room at all times.
1:48:09So even if a family, two parents,
1:48:14and they both have iPhones,
1:48:17they can't say that you have to have one of those iPhones
1:48:21in front of the TV so that if a kid wants to watch TV,
1:48:24one of the parents has to give up their iPhone.
1:48:26It's crazy.
1:48:28And you know, oh, well just buy your kid a $200 iPod Touch.
1:48:32You can't sell a $200 remote control to a $150 box.
1:48:37- Well the one reason, I mean other than the keypad part,
1:48:39the one thing that I like about the remote app
1:48:42is that the remote is always in my pocket
1:48:45or on my wrist now.
1:48:46Whereas you try and find one of those little things.
1:48:52It's a fucking pain in the ass.
1:48:55- Yeah.
1:48:55My kid will just, you know, he turns something on, he just sits it on the couch, and then,
1:49:00you know, five minutes later it's stuck in the cushions someplace.
1:49:03Yeah. Hey, does your kid sit real close to the TV when he plays video games?
1:49:09Oh, sure. Yeah.
1:49:11So that's why I don't want Jonas to know that our TV is 720. Because A, he's young,
1:49:17and so he's still got great eyes. Who knows for how long, given how close he sits to the TV.
1:49:25But he sits close enough that he's absolutely positively within the range where he would be
1:49:30able to see the difference between 720 and 1080. And I just keep waiting for him to notice.
1:49:37Tim Cynova Yeah.
1:49:37So I guess he's got to go over to the other kids' houses and see.
1:49:39Tim Cynova Right. And I don't think I'm going to be able to sell him on the advantages of plasma
1:49:44versus, you know, plasma 7. I really firmly, truly, 100% my heart believe that I like a 720p
1:49:53the plasma and the fact that I sit far enough away,
1:49:58always that I know that I wouldn't see the difference.
1:50:01I mean, my one eye just screwed up anyway.
1:50:04So there's no way I would see the difference,
1:50:06but I know that he would 'cause he sits so damn close.
1:50:08So when me and you were kids,
1:50:10I guess I remember sitting close to the TV to play Atari,
1:50:13and my parents would yell at me every time
1:50:15and make me move back, and they'd say,
1:50:17"You're gonna wreck your eyes."
1:50:19And this is one of those things
1:50:22where I filed this away in my head as,
1:50:24they don't know anything, they don't know this,
1:50:25they're not optometrists, you know, they don't,
1:50:28show me the evidence that sitting close,
1:50:30you know, I sit close to a book when I read it,
1:50:32why can't I sit close to the TV?
1:50:34So I filed it away in my head that when I'm a parent,
1:50:36I'm not gonna do that.
1:50:38And I've stuck to that, I don't,
1:50:40I will sometimes question him and I'll say,
1:50:43"Are you sure you wanna sit that close?"
1:50:45- Yeah. - And he says he does.
1:50:46- I started doing that simply because that's what I had heard
1:50:49and then I thought, wait a minute, this is not,
1:50:51I mean, first of all, sitting close to a cathode ray tube,
1:50:54I think, is a little different than sitting close to--
1:50:57[LAUGHTER]
1:50:57Like, there's nothing-- there's not some radiation coming out
1:51:03of that thing.
1:51:03It's a flat-- it's just like liquid crystal.
1:51:06It's not--
1:51:07I'm worried I'm going to Google this after the show,
1:51:09and it's going to say, yes, sitting close to a cathode ray
1:51:12tube is shown-- it specifically leads to retinal detachments
1:51:16decades later in life.
1:51:19And like, holy shit, this is my fault.
1:51:21- And stabbing yourself in the hand.
1:51:23- Yeah, and stabbing yourself in the hand.
1:51:25- Falling down the stairs.
1:51:28- Holy shit, though, does my kid sit close to the TV
1:51:30when he plays video games?
1:51:32- Well, Hank's eyesight's not great,
1:51:33so he often sits close to the TV,
1:51:35and whatever he's playing.
1:51:39But we put his glasses on him, and he can back up like,
1:51:44foot.
1:51:47Yeah, it has nothing to do with needing to sit close.
1:51:50He just likes it.
1:51:51So I don't know.
1:51:52Well, that's why-- yeah, I think that's why I always did too.
1:51:56Yeah.
1:51:56Well, it fills your field of vision.
1:51:58Right.
1:51:59Right.
1:51:59You want to immerse yourself in that experience.
1:52:01Right.
1:52:02Effectively, you have a bigger display that way.
1:52:04Especially, I think-- yeah, and especially with games,
1:52:07which are an experience.
1:52:08It's-- you know.
1:52:09Anyway.
1:52:09Which is funny, because now I see--
1:52:11the way that our living room is arranged,
1:52:13the couch really has to be a certain distance,
1:52:17from the television and I've sat on the couch and held my iPad up and my iPad is closer you know is
1:52:25filled feels more a larger area than the TV and the TV is not small it's 42 inches it's not huge
1:52:31either but it's but it's it's pretty big yeah and yet if I if I have my iPad it's actually a better
1:52:39option hmm interesting but I'll have a new T on the new Apple TV something
1:52:46yeah but anyway new remote for the Apple TV but nobody really knows anything
1:52:57about what this is gonna be like which is super cool to me like you know what
1:53:02is the basic gist of the like really in my opinion we don't really know much
1:53:07more than we knew that blah blah blah Apple's gonna make a phone. I guess we know a little
1:53:11more because we know that this remote is supposedly like a little touch pad and we didn't even
1:53:16know the iPhone had a touch screen before the iPhone came out. But it's close to that
1:53:21level of who knows what they're gonna do and what the interface is gonna be like. I don't
1:53:28know, I'm really excited. I'm really hoping that they've got a big wow in store. And I
1:53:35- I wrote about this last week.
1:53:37I think the stakes are higher for them with this
1:53:39than with the watch.
1:53:41I think that the watch, I think this needs,
1:53:43that they need to do a better job with this
1:53:46than they did with the watch.
1:53:48And that the stakes are higher.
1:53:50'Cause if it's a mediocre product,
1:53:52I feel like it's not gonna do as well as they need it to do.
1:53:57And it gets back to what I said a while ago on the show
1:54:05we were talking about watches, that the watch kind of,
1:54:07because it piggybacks on the phone,
1:54:09if you have an iPhone and you wanna get a smartwatch,
1:54:11you're gonna get an Apple Watch.
1:54:13And so they've got like a home field advantage there.
1:54:15Whereas there's a little bit of that with the Apple TV
1:54:18where if you're in the ecosystem,
1:54:20if you already have an iTunes account,
1:54:23but everybody has an iTunes account, right?
1:54:25I mean, who doesn't have, I guess kids,
1:54:27you know, teenagers who've never gotten into buying music,
1:54:30but you know, anybody who's an adult has an iTunes account.
1:54:34And if you've already bought a bunch of movies and TV shows,
1:54:37there's some motivation there to get an Apple TV.
1:54:40But to me, it's nowhere near as tied to that.
1:54:44If you own an iPhone, even if you own an iPhone
1:54:46and an Apple Watch and you have a MacBook,
1:54:49there's nothing stopping you from buying a Rock You
1:54:51or any of these other boxes.
1:54:53- And many, I mean, most of the nerds that I know anyway
1:55:00have multiple boxes.
1:55:02- Yeah, but I kind of feel like the race is on
1:55:05to make the box, right?
1:55:07And it doesn't necessarily,
1:55:09even if you're a really staunch fan of Apple stuff,
1:55:12that doesn't mean it's going to be the Apple TV
1:55:15unless the Apple TV is great.
1:55:17It has to be great for it to succeed.
1:55:19- Yeah.
1:55:20- That's the only, and that's exciting to me.
1:55:22Whereas I feel like with the watch,
1:55:24the watch didn't have to be great for it to succeed.
1:55:27Pretty good, if it is pretty good, it'll do pretty good.
1:55:32Whereas I feel like with Apple TV if it's only pretty good. It's not even gonna do pretty good in terms of sales
1:55:36Yeah, like it really has to be great
1:55:39so the one of the key other key features other than the
1:55:43The remote is supposedly universal search
1:55:48Which has been problematic on that thing forever because it's like you want to watch something
1:55:54But you don't know where it's available. Right you think so you think they're gonna do that
1:55:58Well, that's one of the things that they're talking. I mean, that's I hope so
1:56:02I certainly hope so and then you know and then tying Siri into that, you know find me that'll start electric or whatever
1:56:08right find me six feet deep something, you know and
1:56:11Serious as you can get it here or here or here. Yeah, or it's streaming over here. I mean, you know, it seems like those guys
1:56:19They have to tie into it. So I don't know maybe it's a difficult sell because a lot of them don't necessarily want to
1:56:28Be in that level of competition
1:56:30You know because it really it really kind of could can screw you if your deal isn't quite as good as somebody else's
1:56:36And and it seems like the apps
1:56:41Need to hook into that and I mean well
1:56:44Yeah, I mean, it's obvious the apps have to hook into that in order to be able to
1:56:47Allow them to do that
1:56:49I I think though that most would or at least like the enough of the big ones would write the ones who are already
1:56:56Partners with Apple. Mm-hmm. So for example, that's just
1:56:59Netflix Hulu HBO just to name a couple of them right there. So and again
1:57:06Apple TV to date has been what I think that they thought they were gonna the the the no App Store camp thought they would do
1:57:13With the iPhone where they have these partners and there's you know now there at this point
1:57:18There's lots and lots of channels or apps or whatever you want to call them on the current Apple TV
1:57:23But they're all done in partnership. There's no way like so and so for example the conspicuous absent is
1:57:29Conspicuously absent is Amazon. So if you have Amazon Prime you need another box you can't you know, there's no way to do it now
1:57:36Whereas once this App Store comes out presumably
1:57:40Amazon will be able to write an Amazon app for the Apple TV and even if Apple and Amazon never
1:57:45You know work out their own special deal
1:57:48they'll just be in the App Store in the same way that you can watch Amazon Prime on your iPad and so is it your view
1:57:54that
1:57:55It's Apple controlling that it rather than Amazon not wanting to be on the Apple TV. Oh, I I think so
1:58:01I yeah, I think that I'm guessing that Amazon would but I think I think that the way that the two companies don't like each other
1:58:07You know, yeah, and I assert that it was the other way around that
1:58:10they Amazon simply wanted you to go out and buy a fire stick but I
1:58:14Don't think so because boy you can get Amazon and just about every other box if you yeah if you yeah, it's right
1:58:19I'm not sure that you can even find a box that doesn't have Amazon
1:58:23Yeah, maybe talked about it. We talked about this on the rebound and Dan pointed that to me too. And so I was
1:58:27Thinking yeah, it's probably it was probably wrong. Yeah, I think so
1:58:31I think it's Apple though, but it's certainly on enough that it's it's there. I think we have it on our TiVo
1:58:37It's really weird. I don't know what the hell kind of crap
1:58:40You write these apps on for TiVo like when you when you switch to the we have a really new TiVo - it's it's like the
1:58:47top-of-the-line job II
1:58:49When you launch the Amazon thing it's like the screen like zaps out
1:58:55Like almost like the TV went off
1:58:58And I don't know it just feels like it was I might even be right I
1:59:06I might not even be making this up that it's like written in like shockwave or something like that
1:59:09Oh my god, it really feels like it and it's not it's not high def. It's it's a standard death picture so bad
1:59:16Anyway, though. I don't think I would have a hard time at all
1:59:20at least with like people who they would want to promote on stage like Netflix and Hulu and and
1:59:27HBO
1:59:29To get them to to open up the search, right? Why wouldn't you want why wouldn't Netflix want that?
1:59:35I mean, I mean, there's certainly no reason Netflix wouldn't want it. That's for sure.
1:59:40Yeah. Yeah. Because everything is free. It's no additional cost anyway. It's just I would,
1:59:47you know, like Amazon, like if it's the difference between, although Amazon probably sells all
1:59:52that stuff for less than Apple does.
1:59:54It seems so. The universal search thing, I know he's talked about it in one of the shows
2:00:00he's on a million times, but like it just, every time it happens to me, I always think
2:00:04Merlin, Merlin man, because I just know it's the sort of thing that just drives
2:00:08Merlin crazy, you know, like, so let's say you sit down with your family and you're
2:00:12gonna, you've agreed to watch Caddyshack or whatever, pick a family, you know, good
2:00:17family movie like that, and you search for Caddyshack, but you have to search
2:00:23and you were like, let's watch it for free in Netflix, and you go to Netflix
2:00:27and it ends up Netflix doesn't have Caddyshack, but you've just been...
2:00:31- And you sat there typing it in on the remote.
2:00:34- Right, this ridiculous little up, down, left, right remote
2:00:37that is not even using Bluetooth.
2:00:39You have to point the goddamn infrared ring at the thing.
2:00:42And then you get all the way and then do this.
2:00:44And it ends up they don't have Caddyshack.
2:00:46And then you go back and you go,
2:00:48and then you have to start the search again
2:00:51in the iTunes store to get it from iTunes.
2:00:55You have to type it all over again.
2:00:56It doesn't even, you know, there's not like a universal
2:01:00search memory or something like that.
2:01:02So the idea that you could just say,
2:01:04find me Caddyshack and it'll show you all of your options,
2:01:07you know, for how to watch Caddyshack right now,
2:01:09including just hit here and you can start streaming it
2:01:12for free on Netflix, would be fantastic.
2:01:16In fact, I almost feel like it has to do that.
2:01:18Like if it doesn't do that, I think that's--
2:01:20- Yeah, I think if it doesn't do that,
2:01:21it's gonna be kind of a disappointment.
2:01:22I know that the, I mean, the Amazon device
2:01:25does that to a certain degree,
2:01:26but I think it kind of prioritizes Amazon's offering.
2:01:30So like if it's free someplace else,
2:01:32their stuff still shows up like, hey, you can get it here.
2:01:34- Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's does that too.
2:01:37If the iTunes offering is first.
2:01:39But yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know.
2:01:42I'll hit down, I'll swipe down a couple of times
2:01:44to watch it for free.
2:01:46- Sure.
2:01:47- And I feel like in general,
2:01:52because it's been so long since they've had
2:01:55serious update to Apple TV, I feel like we're actually being reasonable by demanding a lot of this
2:02:01Yes, I completely agree
2:02:05Like in general I tried to be reasonable in my expectations, you know
2:02:09And and you know that the whole idea that you know, I famously I you know
2:02:13It's you're gonna have we're gonna see at least 50 articles by the end of the week that say
2:02:20There's not enough in the iPhone 6s to make people upgrade from the Apple.
2:02:27Right, there's not enough reasons to upgrade from last year's iPhone. Therefore, it's a failure.
2:02:32Whereas the whole point is normal people don't upgrade. They don't buy a new phone every year.
2:02:37You know, I feel though that, you know, with the Apple TV,
2:02:41it really does have to be enough that makes everybody who already has an Apple TV want to upgrade.
2:02:45Yeah.
2:02:48yeah, and I mean so it's been three and a half years since the most recent one and
2:02:54That was only like a kind of a bump from the previous one. Yeah, it's just a so it's yeah, really
2:03:01Yeah, well, you know the picture the picture is nicer too. But yeah, and I know other than that
2:03:04Right. It's not that much
2:03:06It's the same basic concept and infrared remote that goes up down left right select play pause and and that you just
2:03:13Sit there and move up down left move a selection up down left right around the screen full of apps
2:03:18and then when you go in there, it's the same thing.
2:03:22Gotta be able to, they gotta do something new.
2:03:25I think they're gonna pull it off.
2:03:27This is the other interesting thing to me,
2:03:29is that I've detected an awful lot of,
2:03:32I guess pessimism, or almost like,
2:03:37we've been so disappointed and limited by what Apple TV is
2:03:42for so long that there's an awful lot of people
2:03:44who it seems to me don't really have
2:03:46high expectations for this.
2:03:48I don't know. I could be wrong about that. I don't know if you've noticed that.
2:03:51That there's an awful lot of people who really think that this is going to be...
2:03:56They just don't think Apple TV is ever going to be good.
2:04:01Because it hasn't been good.
2:04:02Yeah, well I think one of the big concerns was that it seems like the hard part is striking the deals.
2:04:10And a lot of people were also just expecting Apple to come up with their own streaming service.
2:04:15Their own television streaming server, you know, yeah
2:04:18television media whatever I mean still along the lines of Netflix, I guess and
2:04:24That that would be a key feature of it and that if they were able to do it
2:04:30They would have done it a long time ago and they haven't done it
2:04:32So that means that they're not able to do it. So it's not gonna happen. Hmm
2:04:35I don't feel like that that's I mean, I think that would be nice if they were able to do something
2:04:40That's better, but I still think that they could introduce a device that's really good without having to do that
2:04:45I mean if it has that global search functionality, I think that would work almost as well.
2:04:53I think they need to do that.
2:04:54I think though at a fundamental level what I really think they need to do, I really think
2:05:00that they need to do it and I really hope that they have, is they really need to make
2:05:07the basic interaction with the TV awesome.
2:05:11that you actually feel like you're having fun
2:05:14just by choosing which thing to pick.
2:05:18'Cause that's really fundamentally what they did
2:05:19with the iPhone, where cell phones were always these things
2:05:24that were really junky, and they had buttons
2:05:27that were like, just didn't feel good,
2:05:30and these weird little Java applets that they called games
2:05:34that were always super high in latency,
2:05:37and the type of games that adults play,
2:05:42just to waste two minutes.
2:05:44It would never, ever interest a kid
2:05:46who had a Nintendo, like a Game Boy.
2:05:48In the way that Game Boys have always been,
2:05:52since the first one, really responsive, fun,
2:05:55top-notch little gadgets, Apple did that to the phone.
2:05:59They took this thing that was across the board,
2:06:01no matter which brand you bought,
2:06:03was a crap experience and brought it all the way forward to this is an awesome
2:06:09experience and there's no latency and the screen you know it it scrolls
2:06:13exactly one-to-one with your fingers as you touch and when you touch something
2:06:17you don't have to wait for it to respond it responds a second you know just like
2:06:20a physical item they need to make the TV like that so that when you're sitting
2:06:23there moving your thumb around the remote or whatever you're gonna do that
2:06:26it's but just fun like it just feels fun just to interact with your TV and that
2:06:31and a perfect Bluetooth connection
2:06:35from the remote to the TV.
2:06:37So there's never any latency,
2:06:38and you're never moving your finger around
2:06:40and nothing is happening.
2:06:42And when you select something,
2:06:45it needs to launch right away,
2:06:47and you're right in there,
2:06:48and it's like the iPhone.
2:06:51'Cause so much of what frustrates me
2:06:53with everything, really,
2:06:56I mean everything I've ever hooked up to my TV,
2:06:58It's just that stuff never seems to respond fast enough.
2:07:02- Yeah.
2:07:03- The best device I have is a TiVo by far, just in general,
2:07:08just because the newest one does have a Bluetooth remote,
2:07:11not infrared.
2:07:12It is pretty good, and the latency isn't that bad.
2:07:16And I don't think the latency is between the remote
2:07:19and the TiVo.
2:07:19I think it's just that the TiVo itself has always had
2:07:22sort of a notoriously slow interface.
2:07:26And this is the thing, I know Syracuse has gone on and on about this and I share it and
2:07:30I feel like I wouldn't even have the longing in my heart if I didn't own a TiVo forever.
2:07:35The one thing TiVo has always done really, really well, I mean going back to like my
2:07:41first one in like 1999 or 2000 is that when you're playing video, you can fast forward
2:07:47and rewind and it's perfect.
2:07:51In fact, it's almost like they're too smart.
2:07:53I find that they do, like when you fast forward
2:07:57through commercials and you see the show
2:07:59and you hit play, it goes back a little bit
2:08:02because that's when you've hit play
2:08:04is when you've seen that the show's back on.
2:08:06They go back too far.
2:08:08Like my reactions, my, what do you call it?
2:08:12Motor skills, I don't know.
2:08:17- Okay.
2:08:18- I'm quick enough. - Yeah, I mean, well, yeah.
2:08:19- I'm quick enough.
2:08:20- Hand-eye coordination, reaction time?
2:08:22Yeah, my reaction time is fast enough that they actually help me too much and then I
2:08:25see the last 10 seconds of the commercial I just skipped.
2:08:29But the fast-forwarding video on Apple TV and rewinding is garbage.
2:08:34It is so bad.
2:08:37And in some cases, like with the streaming stuff, it doesn't even show it to you.
2:08:41It just goes black.
2:08:42Right.
2:08:43Right.
2:08:44Because it's got to buffer all that stuff before it can do that and if you're going
2:08:46far enough, you're going to go past the buffer.
2:08:50Right.
2:08:51like I really want, somebody's going to do it eventually.
2:08:54And it's the sort of thing that Apple cares about.
2:08:57So I hope it's, you know, I hope it's Apple,
2:08:59and I hope it's coming this week,
2:09:00is that to get it so that, you know,
2:09:03fast forwarding and rewinding video is as good as it can be.
2:09:07Or closer, you know, at least it's more like
2:09:10that first iPhone, and the first iPhone,
2:09:12you know, by today's standards, actually wasn't low latency.
2:09:15And now it feels like it's laggy.
2:09:17But at the time, it was a revelation.
2:09:20So at least I would, I demand it.
2:09:25And I will call for Tim Cook's resignation
2:09:27if I don't get it.
2:09:29I wanna be able to fast forward and rewind video
2:09:31and have it feel like it's a good experience.
2:09:34- You're throwing that in kinda late.
2:09:37He's gotta get that done by Wednesday?
2:09:39I don't think that's gonna happen.
2:09:41- Funny.
2:09:44- I mean, one of the things which I find kinda odd
2:09:46about these rumors is that some are saying
2:09:49that there are going to be two
2:09:51that are going to have two
2:09:51different memory sizes.
2:09:53Like there's like an eight gigabyte
2:09:55and a 16 gigabyte, which I
2:09:56I don't believe that because
2:09:59I don't think they're going to be able
2:10:01to make people understand why.
2:10:03And it just seems like a weird thing
2:10:05to do for those devices.
2:10:06And I feel like the smart
2:10:08thing to do would be, well, you know,
2:10:10they don't do this with the phones,
2:10:11but to do the 16 gigabyte
2:10:13and don't just don't
2:10:14well, get to do the 16 gigabyte.
2:10:17And if you want to charge
2:10:18more charge more don't screw around with an 8 gigabyte one if that's if you're
2:10:21gonna have to yeah and rather than have two tiers just get them just do the
2:10:25bigger one and I know that most video and for some services all of it really
2:10:31most of it that you see it's streaming is the thing now rather than downloads
2:10:35right but it if you're gonna have games at all I mean games take up space and I
2:10:45I know it's not going to be like a PS4 or an Xbox type gaming thing, you know, it's we already know
2:10:51It's got like an a8. I mean that's just common sense
2:10:53You don't even have to read rumor sites to know it's gonna have like an a system on a chip
2:10:57And so we know that basically the you know, the capabilities of that
2:11:00It's not gonna be like a graphics powerhouse, but that's no reason that it couldn't have good games, you know, like mm-hmm
2:11:05like good
2:11:08Nintendo style games right casual
2:11:10Yeah, I
2:11:13I just can't see why they would cheap out on 8 versus 16 if you could easily fill it
2:11:19up, right?
2:11:20Yeah.
2:11:21I also think it's just confusing to offer two different sizes.
2:11:23Yeah, I think so too.
2:11:26I think that...
2:11:27I mean, I know people understand that you want to download a lot of apps, you got to
2:11:30get a bigger phone, but I don't think...
2:11:33Yeah.
2:11:34Marketing-wise, it seems so much easier to just say, "Buy the new Apple TV $149."
2:11:41That's it.
2:11:42That's it.
2:11:43new Apple TV or not get one and be a loser and that's it.
2:11:47Like just that one level of do you want eight or sixteen
2:11:55gigabytes instantly makes the decision to buy so much more complicated and I
2:11:59really do think that they know I think Apple knows that that complication
2:12:03results in some people saying I don't know what to get so I'm not gonna get
2:12:06one. Yeah. And I really think that they would sell I'm convinced that they would
2:12:12sell more boxes and make more money just by giving one with 16 gigabytes and to
2:12:18everybody then they would with two you know even if they could save some money
2:12:22on it I really do I think they would make more money because I think that
2:12:25that complexity would just drive people nuts right and I you know I don't know
2:12:30it just seems crazy yeah I wouldn't think that would be that doesn't sound
2:12:34like them but I hope at least I hope it's not them yeah I wonder though with
2:12:41games. I think about that though with like just how limiting would even 16 gigabytes be
2:12:48because it seems like an awful lot of games are you know measuring the gigabytes already.
2:12:55And you can't just you can obviously you know delete an app and then re-download it later but
2:13:02even with fast internet it's like downloading a two gigabyte game again because you deleted it a
2:13:07couple weeks ago but now you're in the mood to play it again is a pain in the ass.
2:13:10Yeah, I think the Xbox was the I think the sizes were like 32 gigabytes and then 200.
2:13:17Yeah, I don't know something like that. Yeah, I mean, I think the difference was was huge
2:13:20and it was kind of like, well, maybe you want to use it just for doing TV and maybe a couple of
2:13:26games or you're like a real serious gamer. Yeah. But, you know, that's that's twice as or, you know,
2:13:33the smaller ones twice as much as. Do you think do you think they're going to do like a home
2:13:40kit push with Apple TV?
2:13:45I don't know if they're ready for that yet.
2:13:46I mean, I think maybe it would get a mention and that it--
2:13:50I think that that's a long-term plan.
2:13:53Right, but maybe not part of this week's announcement.
2:13:55Yeah, but maybe not part of this week's announcement.
2:13:57Because it seems like we're on kind of a slow build
2:14:00to that stuff.
2:14:00And I don't know that--
2:14:02I mean, unless they've worked something out with somebody
2:14:04else, that there's really like a compelling thing where you're
2:14:08going to be standing up out of your chair to applaud.
2:14:12But I think that the basic idea--
2:14:15and it makes sense to me, but the basic idea
2:14:18is that Apple TV could and ultimately should be like this
2:14:24always on, even if it's in some low power mode, always on,
2:14:29always connected to the internet,
2:14:31and always available from everywhere sort of smart thing
2:14:36that's in your house so that you could do things,
2:14:38like the Nest type things,
2:14:40somehow it would be like this thing
2:14:43that you could connect to and have your lights turned on
2:14:46or have the air conditioning turn on
2:14:48at a certain schedule or stuff like that.
2:14:51I don't know.
2:14:52But I don't know that there's anything
2:14:55that they've got stuff, like you said,
2:14:56like an ecosystem in place to really make it
2:15:00a central part of this week's announcement.
2:15:02- Yeah.
2:15:03- Yeah, I mean, there's some speculation
2:15:06about them making their own stuff,
2:15:08but we certainly haven't heard any rumors
2:15:10of what that might be, so it doesn't seem
2:15:13like it would be coming.
2:15:14- Yeah, let me take a break.
2:15:16I have one more sponsor thing,
2:15:18and then we'll wrap up the show with our final thoughts
2:15:20about what else might be coming at the show.
2:15:22But it's our good friends at Backblaze.
2:15:25Honestly, I love all the sponsors of the show.
2:15:28They're all great this week.
2:15:29If there's only one that I would say
2:15:31you have to use, it's gotta be Backblaze,
2:15:35because it's so important.
2:15:39What is it?
2:15:39It's online backup for the Mac.
2:15:43You download Backblaze, you install it on your Mac,
2:15:48and you just let it run.
2:15:50They've got a free trial, no risk, no credit card required.
2:15:53Just go there and sign up.
2:15:54And it just starts running, and it just backs up
2:15:58everything on your Mac to their servers up in the cloud,
2:16:02as they call it.
2:16:04You have external hard drives, back sim up to.
2:16:06How much, what's the limit?
2:16:08No limit.
2:16:09Whatever you've got on your Mac,
2:16:11it gets backed up to back Blaze.
2:16:12And it's five bucks a month, that's it.
2:16:15It sounds too good to be true.
2:16:19That's, I think if there are people out there
2:16:21who haven't tried back Blaze, haven't used it,
2:16:23it's because this sounds unlimited backup for $5 a month,
2:16:27sounds too good to be true.
2:16:29There's no catch.
2:16:30There is no catch.
2:16:32And the reason why is that hard drives are not that expensive.
2:16:36It sounds like, well, how can they stay in business?
2:16:38It's because hard drives are so cheap,
2:16:41and they buy them in bulk.
2:16:42And they do these cool things on their blog, where every year,
2:16:45they have a report of which brands of hard drives
2:16:47had the most failure and stuff like that.
2:16:50Because they have so many hard drives
2:16:51and this massive amount of storage-- what's the stat here?
2:16:54I got it in front of me.
2:16:5550 petabytes of data backed up from their customers.
2:17:00That $5 a month, it works out.
2:17:03They're like a profitable, successful company.
2:17:05The only catch involved is that it might take a long time
2:17:09for your initial backup.
2:17:11You might say, I have tons of data.
2:17:12I have terabytes of data.
2:17:14It might take a while for that, depending on your relationship
2:17:17with Comcast.
2:17:19But that's it.
2:17:21They can't solve that problem.
2:17:22But once it's backed up, then everything else is incremental.
2:17:24The software is great.
2:17:27It's written by former Apple engineers.
2:17:28It's really good Mac software.
2:17:30You'll never notice it running on your computer.
2:17:32There's never any kind of like,
2:17:33all of a sudden why is my fan on
2:17:35and you go check activity monitor
2:17:36and it's 'cause Backblaze is running.
2:17:38That doesn't happen.
2:17:39It's great software.
2:17:40You'll never notice it.
2:17:42And all of your stuff is backed up from anywhere.
2:17:44I cannot say how great a feeling,
2:17:47what a relief that is knowing that everything on my Mac
2:17:50is backed up outside my house somewhere.
2:17:52When you need to restore,
2:17:53you can just get one file at a time
2:17:54download it or you can download everything and to save time in the case
2:17:59of a disaster if you want to you can just buy a USB hard drive from them and
2:18:04they'll just put all of your data on the USB hard drive and overnight it to you
2:18:09it could not be better anything you would want from an online backup they do
2:18:13it so go to if you haven't signed up already and you're crazy if you haven't
2:18:18go to backblaze.com/thetalkshow.
2:18:23That's backblaze.com/thetalkshow.
2:18:26And sign up.
2:18:28And five bucks a month, that's it.
2:18:30If there is a second catch,
2:18:31it's five bucks per month per Mac.
2:18:34So if you have two Macs,
2:18:35then you're up to 10 bucks a month.
2:18:36That's a fair deal in my opinion.
2:18:39Go sign up.
2:18:40Back up your crap.
2:18:43I can't, I'm telling you,
2:18:45if you don't back up your stuff, you're nuts.
2:18:47Anyway, what else do you think of the show?
2:18:49I don't think iPads are coming.
2:18:51I know Germin says--
2:18:52- Oh, you don't think the iPad Pro's coming?
2:18:54- Yeah, I'm gonna go, I'm not going on,
2:18:58I'm not gonna make a bet.
2:18:58Here's what I will say this.
2:19:00Honest to God, Jon, nobody has told me anything
2:19:02about the event, so I don't have any inside birdies
2:19:04or information about it.
2:19:05I don't want it, I don't wanna know.
2:19:07I wanna be surprised.
2:19:08It's just my gut feeling.
2:19:10My gut feeling is that they're gonna do
2:19:11the exact same thing they've done in years past
2:19:13and have an iPad event, a smaller event in October,
2:19:18and they'll do iPads and new, maybe like the new iMac
2:19:22with the 4K display on the 21 inch screen.
2:19:25And talk about El Capitan.
2:19:29There's a pattern to the way they do these things.
2:19:32And the October event is usually,
2:19:36or has been the last few years,
2:19:37new iPads and some new Mac news, like, and showing off.
2:19:42And I feel like a lot of people in the press
2:19:44forget just how simple Apple does things
2:19:48and how they often repeat themselves.
2:19:49So they'll show off El Capitan
2:19:51and all the features they're gonna show
2:19:53are the same ones that they showed at WWDC in June.
2:19:56And they do this and people are like,
2:19:57why did they do that?
2:19:58Because we already knew all this stuff.
2:20:00They showed us that in June.
2:20:01Because they just want normal people
2:20:04to know about these features.
2:20:05And the way you communicate with people
2:20:08who aren't hyperactive news junkies
2:20:10is you repeat yourself multiple times, right?
2:20:12It's like running for office.
2:20:14Why do politicians keep saying the same things
2:20:16over and over again while they're getting elected?
2:20:17'Cause that's how you get your message across.
2:20:19So they'll just review what's new in El Capitan.
2:20:22I don't see how they do all that in one event next week,
2:20:24if they're gonna do this big new Apple TV.
2:20:27- Right, and I'm hoping they're gonna talk about
2:20:31when the WatchOS 2 is coming.
2:20:34- I think they're gonna do that at next week's event.
2:20:36This is what I think.
2:20:37- This, you mean Wednesdays?
2:20:39- Wednesday, this week.
2:20:40- Yeah, no, that's what I meant.
2:20:41- Yeah, so this is what I think they're gonna do Wednesday.
2:20:43I think it's gonna be exactly like last year's event.
2:20:48There'll be three, well, meaning three things.
2:20:50First will be the new iPhones,
2:20:52and it'll probably be Schiller again,
2:20:53exactly like last year.
2:20:54Phil Schiller will come out and he'll tell us all about
2:20:57the new iPhone 6S and 6S Plus, and Force Touch,
2:21:02and whatever else they have to talk about,
2:21:04and how it all works,
2:21:06and here's when they're gonna be available,
2:21:08and I guarantee it's gonna be like 10 days later
2:21:10or nine days later on Friday, the week after.
2:21:15What'll that be, Friday the 18th?
2:21:18Then part two, now last year part two was Apple Pay.
2:21:23This year's part two, I'll bet, is Apple Watch.
2:21:27And it'll be about everything new with a Watch 2.0.
2:21:31And I think I said this on the show a couple weeks ago,
2:21:34but I wouldn't be surprised if they came out
2:21:37with new bands for the holiday season.
2:21:40And I think probably Germin again,
2:21:43somebody this week had a rumor
2:21:44that they're gonna do new bands,
2:21:46new sport bands at least.
2:21:47Just to have something new to show
2:21:51and new to sell for the holidays
2:21:54and maybe based on now that they have actual sales data,
2:21:58they know which existing bands are popular.
2:22:01- Right. - They can do
2:22:02something like that.
2:22:03So it's a way to have new hardware to show without new stuff.
2:22:06But then they'll just review all of the watch 2.0 features
2:22:09that they showed at WWDC.
2:22:11But then they'll say here, and here's when it'll be,
2:22:14here's when the update will be available.
2:22:16- Yeah.
2:22:17- And then, I don't know if they'll do one more thing,
2:22:20but then there will be one more thing,
2:22:22and it'll be Apple TV.
2:22:24And Apple TV will fill that third and final spot
2:22:27that Apple Watch played last year,
2:22:31and they're gonna have a lot to show,
2:22:33because it's all new, it's radically new.
2:22:35And there's probably gonna be like partners there.
2:22:39Like, I don't know if they'll have Netflix or HBO again.
2:22:42- That could take a long time.
2:22:43- That could, it should take a long time.
2:22:45I don't see, after what I've just said, those three things,
2:22:49I don't see how there's any time left for iPads.
2:22:53- Yeah, and they might even wanna talk business.
2:22:57You know what I mean?
2:22:58Given the concern over the Chinese economy,
2:23:00they might just wanna say, hey, we're doing really well.
2:23:04here's how many iPhones we sold,
2:23:07and here's an update on whatever.
2:23:08- Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what,
2:23:10and you know what, and to get around not giving numbers,
2:23:13one thing I don't think there's any law against
2:23:14is here's photographs of one of our new stores in China,
2:23:19and it's jam-packed with people buying things.
2:23:22- Here's a chart with a line going up
2:23:25with no numbers on it.
2:23:26- A Bezos chart.
2:23:27- Right. - Here's a Bezos chart.
2:23:29Unlabeled axes.
2:23:32It really there's those I don't know if they should be called Bezos charts or New
2:23:38Yorker charts because it's like you know how like there's like like the every single New
2:23:43Yorker cartoon is either two guys on an island or it's a guy in a suit with a chart either going
2:23:49up or down. Right? Yeah, if they are yeah. So that makes a lot of sense. I think that makes a
2:23:57lot of I just don't and there's and so then and then I mean the other thing is
2:24:00like the iPad Pro if that's what whatever it's gonna be assuming that's
2:24:05what it is it's kind of a thing that they need to talk about for a while I
2:24:10mean it's a new it's a whole new form factor and supposedly it's coming with
2:24:15like a stylus and keyboards and I mean that's so that's a lot to talk about
2:24:20there too so and and if they're gonna do a refreshed mini which is what the what
2:24:28the rumor is and and not do a refresh or at least not do a significant refresh of
2:24:32the air that seems like that might be enough to fill a whole keynote I really
2:24:39do especially and especially with a review of El Capitan and if they don't
2:24:43have a separate oh so I'm sorry so you were saying the El Capitan when would be
2:24:47October one? Yes. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Okay. No, I misunderstood you. I think next week is,
2:24:53I, this week, I guess, this week, iPhone, Apple Watch 2.0, and an update on, you know,
2:25:00the amazing things people are doing with their Apple Watches, and then Apple TV, and then that's
2:25:05it. That's two hours right there. Yeah, that's easily. Or even not, even if it isn't two hours,
2:25:09even if it's only 90 minutes or 95 minutes, it doesn't leave enough time to do the rest,
2:25:15And I don't think they want to do that.
2:25:16I don't think they want to do too much at once.
2:25:19Why wouldn't they just have a second event
2:25:20to spread out the publicity?
2:25:22Why in the world would they want to just
2:25:24have all this stuff at once?
2:25:25And if there's an iPad Pro, if,
2:25:29I don't, again, I don't like,
2:25:31I'm trying to get away from knowing stuff.
2:25:33I don't want to know the secrets anymore.
2:25:34I want to be surprised.
2:25:35So I don't know.
2:25:36I have nobody on the inside who has ever said anything
2:25:39to me about an iPad Pro.
2:25:40Makes sense to me though,
2:25:41and there's an awful lot of smoke.
2:25:43You know, where there's smoke, there's fire.
2:25:44an awful lot of smoke that they're doing it,
2:25:46I think you're right that that's gonna be like,
2:25:50hey, we need to take time, that's a whole segment
2:25:53of an event to tell you why we're doing this.
2:25:55- Yeah, there's a fair amount of explanation
2:25:58that needs to go on there, I think.
2:26:00- Right, and I think--
2:26:00- 'Cause who's it for?
2:26:03- Well, I think it, you know, what I think is interesting
2:26:07about the iPad Pro, really interesting,
2:26:10is, that's a great question, and the reason I think
2:26:12It's great is I think it's for Tim Cook not only Tim Cook
2:26:16but in the way that like Steve Jobs like
2:26:18had them make the phone that he wanted and he knew that lots of other people would want it too, but it was like I
2:26:24the way that Tim Cook talks about iPad and the way he
2:26:28Says so many times that he does so much of his work on iPad and that he's you know doing this big push
2:26:34personally into the enterprise with the you know the IBM deal
2:26:39Just see this thing there. He was on stage at a Cisco event
2:26:42At the end of August. Yeah. Well, I heard that. Oh, I didn't realize he was on stage
2:26:47I heard that they were doing it. They were also looking up to do with thing about
2:26:51Getting I it was into the end of the enterprise was it more about I forget exactly
2:26:57It was last Monday and I don't think it was strong. No. Okay. So this was more recent. Yeah
2:27:02It was a huge event in Vegas
2:27:05it was like that some kind of big Cisco conference with you know, and it was like in the
2:27:09The MGM Grand like the arena where all the big fights are like the Mayweather fight and stuff like that like a thousands
2:27:16Without, you know, six to ten thousand seat arena. I don't know not the can't take a fight. No, not the kids
2:27:22It wasn't a Denny's
2:27:33No, but he made an unannounced surprise appearance
2:27:37on stage at the Cisco thing.
2:27:38I got some email about it,
2:27:40but I don't know that it's been publicized.
2:27:42But he spoke, and apparently at great length,
2:27:45and it was really, really interesting,
2:27:46and made a very compelling case for,
2:27:49you know, like, that the iPad,
2:27:51we've only reached the tip of the iceberg,
2:27:53but it's gonna play a tremendous role
2:27:56in business computing going forward.
2:27:59I really do, I think he believes it.
2:28:03I think he really thinks it's true.
2:28:05And I really think that he himself
2:28:07is going to use an iPad Pro a lot.
2:28:10And I think that he seems so interested in it personally.
2:28:15I can't see how they wouldn't put a lot of time
2:28:20into the unveiling of it at an event.
2:28:23And again, I don't see how they fit that
2:28:24in one event next week.
2:28:25And the WWD, just to head off this possible,
2:28:31I mean, I could be wrong,
2:28:32'Cause I know Germin is saying it's coming next week
2:28:34or that it's planned to.
2:28:35And John Patzkowski said that too.
2:28:38But Patzkowski said the same thing last year,
2:28:40like in August, like when he, same thing,
2:28:44like when he got the leak of the date
2:28:47for the September event, he said, you know,
2:28:51that it's expected to be new phones and Apple's,
2:28:54what we then called their wearable and new iPads.
2:28:58- Well, the one thing,
2:29:00The one thing that goes against our argument though
2:29:02is the size of the venue.
2:29:05- All right.
2:29:06- All right, hold that.
2:29:07I have an explanation on it.
2:29:09Yes. - Okay, all right.
2:29:10- I have an explanation on it.
2:29:11Hold that thought.
2:29:12The other counterargument is that the WWDC keynote
2:29:15this year went over two hours, well over two hours.
2:29:18So why not just go over two hours again?
2:29:21I don't think they were happy that that went over two hours.
2:29:24I think that, you know.
2:29:26- I don't think they should have been.
2:29:28(laughing)
2:29:29You know, I've been a bit jam-packed with really a full of exciting information
2:29:33I thought that but that that whole the whole Apple music thing was talking to you know, it's some
2:29:38You know, there were some Apple people who you know, obviously it's off the record, you know, but you know more or less we're like
2:29:45Hey, sorry about this
2:29:47You know what Ben Ben Thompson and I went we're sitting together for it and we were like we asked a friend
2:29:55you know, like we're like the word was that it was gonna be long and we I asked somebody I know who would know
2:30:01You know someone from Apple PR and it was like hey
2:30:04should we
2:30:05Should we run to the bat because run into the bathroom at?
2:30:07WBC is kind of a pain in the ass because there's so many thousands of people streaming in like that
2:30:11The secret is to go all the way downstairs don't you know your the keynotes on the third level?
2:30:16Don't go to that don't go to the one that's closest go further, right?
2:30:19Yeah, like a funny side story is Ben and I both like we're like, oh we better go
2:30:25So we went and a couple minutes ago,
2:30:28before the keynote goes, we went down to the first floor
2:30:31to hit the restroom.
2:30:32Glad that I did.
2:30:34So son of a bitch ran along.
2:30:35The funny thing is we come back upstairs
2:30:37and we get to the third floor and the door to the men's room
2:30:39was way out the door.
2:30:41I mean, there must have been 100 guys waiting in line
2:30:44to go to the men's room on the third floor of Moscone.
2:30:48And Ben, see me, I'm not a humanitarian.
2:30:51I was just gonna go take my seat.
2:30:53Ben stopped and Ben is a very nice guy
2:30:56and started telling people, he was like,
2:30:57"Hey, you know, you can just go down to the first floor
2:30:59"and there's no line."
2:31:01There's literally no line to the first floor mentor.
2:31:03And nobody took his advice.
2:31:04And I was like-- - Because they were scared.
2:31:06- Yeah, they were scared that it was like some kind of trick.
2:31:08- Those are some sort of scam, yeah.
2:31:09- Yeah. (laughs)
2:31:11And Ben like took it hard.
2:31:13He's like, you know, and I was like,
2:31:15"This is why it doesn't pay to help people, Ben.
2:31:17"Doesn't pay."
2:31:18But anyway, I don't think they were happy
2:31:22that that went over two hours.
2:31:23They just felt like this is what we have to do
2:31:25at WWDC this year, and they needed to,
2:31:27they felt like they needed to get Apple Music announced,
2:31:31and so therefore it had to be over two hours.
2:31:32I feel like they, their internal goal
2:31:36to keep 'em all under two hours,
2:31:38they'll make an exception if they feel like they need to,
2:31:40but if they don't need to, they won't.
2:31:42And I feel like they don't need to this time.
2:31:43Why they don't have to do one of them.
2:31:46- It would be breaking the pattern to do that.
2:31:49- Yeah. - Yeah.
2:31:51- All right, what was the thing I said we'd get back to?
2:31:52Oh, the venue. - The venue.
2:31:54- So the venue is Bill Graham Civic Auditorium.
2:31:59I've never been there.
2:32:01I'm not even quite, I hope I get there.
2:32:03- If you do, go to the bathroom in the basement,
2:32:07even if there's no bathroom down there.
2:32:09- Well, so it's a huge place,
2:32:12and I guess it can be configured to fill thousands of people.
2:32:17But my understanding, and again,
2:32:20This is just a sort of, you know,
2:32:22lick my finger and put it in the wind.
2:32:24But it sounds to me like they haven't really increased
2:32:29the number of people invited.
2:32:32Like, it doesn't seem like press invitations
2:32:34are all that easy to get.
2:32:36Which makes it sound like there's not,
2:32:40now it could be that they are gonna have
2:32:42thousands and thousands and thousands of people or whatever,
2:32:44but that they've invited people from China
2:32:46or that it's a bunch of people from the TV industry.
2:32:49you know, like people who write about TV
2:32:51and Hollywood reporters.
2:32:52And so that I wouldn't know this
2:32:53because they haven't increased the number of,
2:32:56you know, the people I know and the tech people.
2:32:59- Well, I didn't get an invite.
2:33:00- There you go, see?
2:33:02But that's just, here's my thinking
2:33:05is that maybe the reason that they have this big venue,
2:33:07I don't know what it even looks like inside.
2:33:09So I, you know, I could be that this doesn't,
2:33:12what I'm gonna say doesn't make any sense.
2:33:13But remember last year,
2:33:16They built this big white box in front of the Flint Center
2:33:21down there in Cupertino.
2:33:23And nobody knew what it was.
2:33:24And it was a big demo area, a big temporary demo area
2:33:28for all the new stuff they wanted to show.
2:33:31Like a one day, two hour Apple store.
2:33:34Just for demonstrating the new watch and everything.
2:33:39My thought is what if they did that again this year,
2:33:42but they wanted to do it all indoors?
2:33:45that maybe that's why they have it in this huge area.
2:33:47So that there may not be tons of press seating
2:33:50or seating for people to see the event,
2:33:52but that they've built a big area to demonstrate this.
2:33:56And I think, just thinking about it,
2:33:58if you wanna demonstrate Apple TV in a realistic way,
2:34:01you need a lot of physical space.
2:34:03- You gotta have a lot of space, right,
2:34:05'cause you gotta have a bunch of TVs.
2:34:06- Yeah, and maybe like couches set up or something.
2:34:09So sit down and watch a ball game or something, right?
2:34:12So that's my guess.
2:34:14My guess is, and just a guess,
2:34:17I mean, how the hell did I know?
2:34:18I don't know what the hell's going on
2:34:19in the Bill Graham Civic Arts.
2:34:22But this is my guess, is that they've built
2:34:24a huge hands-on area inside,
2:34:27and that's why it's in a big venue.
2:34:28Not because they're inviting lots of people.
2:34:31- Okay, well.
2:34:32- Not that they're not inviting lots of people,
2:34:33even if, you know.
2:34:35- Yeah, I was assuming that it was gonna be
2:34:36all the way through iPads,
2:34:37but now that we've talked, I think,
2:34:41I'm gonna say that we're right.
2:34:43that it's not, that iPads are gonna be next month.
2:34:45- I'm also predicting, I'll predict that Mark Gurman
2:34:47will say that he wasn't wrong about the iPads.
2:34:50He'll say he was right, but that they moved them to October
2:34:54because it leaked that they were gonna come out.
2:34:56'Cause his report that they leaked.
2:34:59- That's unfair. (laughs)
2:35:02- Is it unfair?
2:35:03- It only happened, well, did that happen more than once?
2:35:05- No, it was just with the design of--
2:35:08- Just the once.
2:35:09the health app design.
2:35:13But that he wasn't wrong, he was right,
2:35:17and they moved it out of spite.
2:35:19- They are very spiteful.
2:35:23- And again, I'll just emphasize,
2:35:26they could, I guess, squeeze in iPad,
2:35:29but then if they do, then there's nothing left
2:35:30to have an event for El Capitan
2:35:33and any new Macs that they wanna unveil.
2:35:35- Yeah, right.
2:35:37- And I thought it was interesting too
2:35:39that Germin even said that he, you know,
2:35:41he said that he thinks that the iPad,
2:35:43sources say the iPad's supposed to come out
2:35:45at this event this week, but then he himself said
2:35:48that the new Retina 21-inch iMac is coming in October.
2:35:53And that's like, you know, a new, cool new Retina iMac
2:35:59coming in October sure sounds like a perfect thing
2:36:02to announce at an event in October, right?
2:36:04- Yeah.
2:36:06- So anyway, that's what I think.
2:36:07but it'll be interesting. Anything else? I think that's enough. Yeah that's pretty good.
2:36:15I think that's enough too. Just enough. Alright, John Moltz. Exactly the right amount. Always good
2:36:23to talk to you, always a good time. Everybody can get all the Moltz they want at a very fine
2:36:30website. Very nice website. Very, very nice. I don't know what's going on a very fine website.
2:36:36It's not as good as what's going on at very nice website though. Yeah
2:36:39Prize you is it got to be the nice?
2:36:42It's got to be the number one hit if I google very nice website. I would think so
2:36:45Very nice website except I'm not using Google anymore. Yep. John molts is very nice website. There we go
2:36:53So you can find out branding baby. That's branding right there
2:36:57If you enjoy the sounds of his voice on a podcast you're in luck. Sorry
2:37:05Well, did I please have your hearing checked?
2:37:07There's turning this car around if you'd Google for turning this car around you'll find it that's John's show where he talks about
2:37:15parenting and and stuff like that with
2:37:18John Armstrong, yeah
2:37:21And
2:37:24Lex Friedman, yes, Lex Friedman Lex Friedman. I forgot about Lex and you got what else you got
2:37:34The rebound where we talk about technology with Lex Friedman and Dan Morin
2:37:39And moltz of Twitter and moltz at moltz. Yep, pretty good pretty good got in there quick got in there quick and got that yeah
2:37:50Yeah, I do after race Gruber Gruber is too popular a name in Europe
2:37:57There's the it's a big name in Germany so that it lets it do you get lots of people asking for your handle?
2:38:02No, nobody asked for it though
2:38:04You've all Jesse char on an Instagram important every hysterical. I never know how funny you know what?
2:38:11I don't read I never know whether it's a joke or not because people yeah, I guess people has it's become a joke now
2:38:16Yeah, right. She's got the at Jesse just playing jess. Si E on Instagram and every post she ever makes
2:38:23There's somebody in it. Usually some young girl named, you know, just
2:38:2777 whatever
2:38:30Hands squared I don't know. I don't know where these kids come up with the handle names
2:38:34But I mean you ever look does your tech kid text at all?
2:38:37Names of like the iMessage names of oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it looks like a bear no
2:38:44Recognition no, no, who's this? Yeah, it looks like a mistake
2:38:50Somebody asking can I have your handle? Can I have your username as though?
2:38:54Like you just say sure. Yes, why not?
2:38:58Why wouldn't I give it to you
2:39:00Teenage stranger. No, nobody asks for mine teenage stranger who has 15 followers compared to my thousands
2:39:07It seems like a good deal
2:39:12Wonder whatever happened with that guy who had I know we have to wrap it up whatever happened with that guy who has the ad
2:39:18Alphabet Twitter. I don't know. I don't know
2:39:20That'd be something to look in this way. So okay. Hey, yeah
2:39:24Yeah
2:39:28Oh, I spelled it wrong.
2:39:30[laughter]
2:39:32I have to take the "t" off.
2:39:34That's still him.
2:39:36It says I'm not affiliated with Google/Alphabet.
2:39:40Yeah.
2:39:42Have a good trip.
2:39:44Alright, thanks. Talk to you again.
2:39:46Mention my name. I will. I'll put in a good word for you.
2:39:48Win big prizes. Yeah.
2:39:50I usually sign up as a "get my press badge" in your name.
2:39:52Just in case. [laughter]
2:39:54That would explain why I'm not getting invites.
2:39:56He's here! Why do you guys even look at him? He's already here.