00:00:32 ◼ ► I recorded a podcast and I thought it was pretty good episode and I had one good article on daring fireball
00:00:38 ◼ ► And then I look at like what what like something you guys do and snails on like 17 podcasts
00:00:48 ◼ ► The screen cast and do a podcast and keep it and Renee, of course writes about seven or eight thousand words a week
00:00:56 ◼ ► The um that there's a I think it was the lonius monk at one point who said it's not the notes you play
00:01:03 ◼ ► It's the notes. You don't play. Oh, I don't know. So so you're like monk, you know, you're the guy
00:01:18 ◼ ► Yep, and that is and it just moved this is and it's motivated me because I you know, somebody moves you move a show
00:02:52 ◼ ► got a nice system over there so it's gonna be great where you want to go and you want to listen
00:02:56 ◼ ► to the show and we'll talk about a little bit more too but it's relay.fm slash mpu yeah or or type
00:03:02 ◼ ► mac power users.com it'll get you there okay so um really it's the first good show on relay yeah
00:03:09 ◼ ► well that's what i think i don't i don't know how these guys got by without me quite frankly i don't
00:03:15 ◼ ► understand either um i think they're getting by on the you know the british accent thing i know it
00:04:03 ◼ ► I like to go... Everybody was telling us. We were thinking about, you know, doing a podcast
00:04:14 ◼ ► right, you know, they're like, well, MacBreak Weekly does the news and such and such. And I'm
00:04:21 ◼ ► let's just not do it. And we talked for like four or five months about, you know, what would we do.
00:04:26 ◼ ► And ultimately I said, I want to make a show that just talks about one thing a show. It doesn't have
00:04:31 ◼ ► anything to do with news, just talks about how do you get better at email or how do you get better
00:04:34 ◼ ► at this or that. And Katie's like, that's a great idea. It's good for like 10 shows and we'll be
00:06:05 ◼ ► I think everybody, it fits a general loose description of somebody who's truly an enthusiast,
00:06:11 ◼ ► really does want to dig into some of the details, but probably falls short of being a developer,
00:06:18 ◼ ► someone who can write their own code, or at least if they do write code, it's more like Automator
00:06:25 ◼ ► Oh, it's absolutely aspirational for our show. And the ideal nerd in my head is John Syracuse.
00:06:35 ◼ ► And, and the show is not for John Siracusa. You know, we're not going to talk about programming
00:06:43 ◼ ► our show has a big audience, but it's not the usual geeks listening to podcasts. I mean,
00:06:51 ◼ ► doctors, you know, business people, you know, single moms, people who just want to get better
00:07:16 ◼ ► has a couple, he's always been a Mac guy and writes his own file maker stuff for the, to
00:07:26 ◼ ► he has made this little system of stuff that works exactly the way he needs it for his practice.
00:07:41 ◼ ► but it's fun. And with a Mac, there's so much you can do. I mean, with little automation tools,
00:07:47 ◼ ► you don't need to learn to program. If you get good at Hazel or Keyboard Maestro or even just
00:07:52 ◼ ► text expander you can like make so much magic happen so we talk about that stuff all the time
00:07:57 ◼ ► it's fun i do think and i do think though and this is one of the things i want to talk about
00:08:01 ◼ ► so you name the show mac power users and i do think i think that even though the naming
00:08:06 ◼ ► apple related websites mac whatever is probably always was a bad idea in hindsight because
00:08:14 ◼ ► something new is going to come like it would have it would have worked out poorly two decades ago
00:08:27 ◼ ► Apple than Mac, even though Apple often objected to Mac whatever names for some years. And
00:08:32 ◼ ► then they kind of backed off that. But with the target audience of your and Katie's show,
00:10:11 ◼ ► we've dealt with that is, and I'd almost argue that you can get more automation stuff going
00:10:21 ◼ ► the shows, we deal, we still do shows, entire shows on iPhone and iPad and iOS related topics.
00:10:31 ◼ ► we've bought some other URLs and we've talked about it, but it's like, you've kind of got
00:10:39 ◼ ► I think people understand. And I think the thing that makes it work is that the type of iOS users
00:10:46 ◼ ► who are going to be listening are going to be, they're PCs and Mac too. They're not Windows
00:10:50 ◼ ► people. Oh yeah, that's the assumption. Yeah, I find it interesting personally though, because
00:10:56 ◼ ► I still definitely consider myself a Mac power user. I have a lot of custom modifications,
00:11:01 ◼ ► you know, the paraphrase Han Solo, that power my whole workflow for almost everything I do,
00:11:07 ◼ ► from email to especially posting stuff to Darren fireball um you know custom bookmarklets uh custom
00:11:16 ◼ ► automator services that I've written a lot of you know a lot of the stuff rated around the way I do
00:11:22 ◼ ► markdown um yeah two points on that two points on that number one I wish you'd share more of that
00:11:28 ◼ ► because yeah you do post one I used to I used to post that stuff all the time and then somehow I've
00:11:33 ◼ ► gotten away from it and I realized I've got like this backlog of what I think are some pretty cool
00:12:58 ◼ ► just want to get text somewhere, and like on the phone, you can do that. And I'm an indie guy now,
00:13:06 ◼ ► so I'm out on my own all the time. So I'll be sitting at Disneyland, and I'll sit down for
00:13:10 ◼ ► 30 minutes and just get a bunch of text into the thing. And the iPhone and iPad are great for that.
00:13:16 ◼ ► And that's a useful productivity tip. It doesn't have to be all, I don't have to post from there,
00:13:21 ◼ ► I don't have to format, I don't do anything. I just want to get text somewhere, and that gives
00:13:24 ◼ ► me a starting point. Yeah, I think, and you know, the app that I helped design and make, Vesper,
00:13:30 ◼ ► is definitely not a power user notes app. It is very, very straightforward and obvious, and there's
00:13:36 ◼ ► there's no secret stuff for, you know, it doesn't have any markdown support. That's like the most
00:13:41 ◼ ► surprising things to so many people that it just doesn't do anything related to markdown. But then
00:13:45 ◼ ► I say to them, well, I said, I write markdown in all the time. I just put asterisks around words.
00:13:49 ◼ ► I want to be italic, put braces around URLs. I was like, so, you know, it doesn't do anything with
00:14:00 ◼ ► lo, these many years ago, what the hell has it been now, 11 years or something like that?
00:15:01 ◼ ► I don't know if you've ever do you ever uh have anything running in like the ios simulator?
00:15:12 ◼ ► But like if you paste text in the way you do it is you're in a Mac app you select the text you copy
00:15:30 ◼ ► You have to tap the insertion point where you want the text to go and then tap the paste button on the little pop-up menu
00:15:40 ◼ ► Yeah, and the same thing for copying out if the car would make me crazy. Yeah, it's well, that's probably why I drink. I don't know
00:15:49 ◼ ► It's a long long story that we cannot get into where we're desperate for Mac is but we we are keenly aware that
00:16:01 ◼ ► Do our first sponsor and it is a brand new sponsor. I'm very excited to have a new sponsor. I love this
00:16:28 ◼ ► Napa Valley pros last bottle takes all the hassle out of deciding on what to buy and makes it a quick and educated
00:16:47 ◼ ► In fact, the owners of Last Bottle had already been doing just that for years in the Napa
00:16:52 ◼ ► Valley before building Last Bottle, the online wine business that instantly hit every wine
00:16:59 ◼ ► With a combined 66 years in the Napa Valley, these guys are connected and they use those
00:18:26 ◼ ► really does seem like a fantastic way to learn about new wines and to get great wine sent to you
00:18:32 ◼ ► at what seems to me to be great, great prices. Here's where you go. Go to www.lastbottlewines.com/the
00:18:44 ◼ ► talk show. That's lastbottlewines.com/the talk show. And everything you need to do is right
00:18:52 ◼ ► there on the website including links to their app and etc etc so my thanks to last bottle
00:18:57 ◼ ► great new sponsor don't you love that there's non-tech companies now sponsoring tech podcasts
00:19:11 ◼ ► tech companies that do sponsor it i mean because that's obvious why they do but i think that the
00:19:17 ◼ ► non-tech products, it's brilliant. And I think that all of our shows, all the shows that you
00:19:23 ◼ ► think of that people who listen to like Mac Power users or the talk show or ATP, any of the shows on
00:19:30 ◼ ► Relay FM, it's really not about tech. I mean, there are other podcasts and other podcast networks that
00:19:36 ◼ ► maybe are more purely technical and sort of like the old divide between Mac publications and PC
00:19:42 ◼ ► publications. You know, and like the type of things where they talk about, you know, their
00:19:47 ◼ ► first emphasis is on specs or something like that. That's a different type of world. Like,
00:19:56 ◼ ► our shows attract people who are picky and care about shit. That's it. Right? And tech just
00:20:03 ◼ ► happens to be one of them. And so if your product, whether it's, you know, mattresses or wine or
00:20:09 ◼ ► Pillows or all this crazy shit, which I never would have thought that that I'd be selling sponsorships for it. I
00:20:20 ◼ ► you know some chunk of our audience of the audience that listens to this show that cares about the Mac and iOS and really wants
00:20:41 ◼ ► No one would ever think that in like a magazine that focuses on like national affairs that all the ads would be for
00:20:55 ◼ ► Felt felt to this and then like I told you like years ago. I wouldn't have expected these these type of sponsors, but
00:22:03 ◼ ► But the memberships and t-shirts thing really was just the way that I launched going full-time
00:22:19 ◼ ► $20,000 or something like that that we cruised on through the summer and just kind of started mowing through and
00:22:33 ◼ ► Where like the little Excel spreadsheet where we were keeping track of it where it was the first month where it was like
00:22:49 ◼ ► I was definitely selling enough sponsorships for during fireball that made it a legitimate job
00:22:54 ◼ ► We couldn't find anybody to sponsor the podcast. I mean like nobody we couldn't even sell it
00:23:10 ◼ ► It takes a pair though, you know how to like give up a job well you've sort of done that
00:23:17 ◼ ► I was I don't want to talk about me. Let's talk about you. So you have already said you are an attorney now
00:23:26 ◼ ► Somewhere in Southern California. Yeah, Orange County, right? So that's why I've been waiting to have you on the show right now today here in Philadelphia
00:23:42 ◼ ► Don't even have the weather widget on my my Apple watch because I live in Southern California
00:23:47 ◼ ► What do you need that for somebody said that to me where I forget I had a friend. Oh, it was Adam Lisa Gore
00:23:54 ◼ ► The other week before he was on my show and we were you know preparing and he's so so so excited about the Apple watch
00:24:04 ◼ ► Show me your watch face and I sent him a screenshot of my watch face and he was like, why do you still itty?
00:24:10 ◼ ► Utility it is utility. It's utility with known just no our numbers with the date at three o'clock
00:24:16 ◼ ► With the fitness top right the weather top left and right now I have my calendar at the bottom
00:24:23 ◼ ► But I I did all around with that and sometimes turn that off just turn it off to nothing
00:24:32 ◼ ► Why that's kind of the the geeks are really mad about that no more events thing. I don't know it doesn't bother me
00:24:41 ◼ ► If it was a real watch if it was a mechanical way of doing it it would just blank out like so the the
00:24:53 ◼ ► It's not they're not making it look like it flips around and that it's a little cutout panel that shows this, right?
00:25:14 ◼ ► So if you think about like a train station and there's the board that shows all of the upcoming trains
00:25:54 ◼ ► if you are the sort of person, I think that the dividing line of whether you are bothered
00:25:58 ◼ ► by this or not is whether you have a lot of events on your calendar or not. Do you live
00:26:04 ◼ ► the sort of life where you have a lot of meetings and stuff like that and that you seldom see
00:26:14 ◼ ► you do see it, it's like a relief. It's like an inbox zero type of euphoria that you get,
00:26:20 ◼ ► right? It's like, "Ah, my day is done. No more events." It actually pleases you to see it because
00:26:30 ◼ ► Whereas with me, more often than not, I've got nothing on a regular day. Or the only thing I
00:26:38 ◼ ► have, I do have a calendar subscription to the Yankees schedule. And so the only thing on my
00:26:43 ◼ ► watch is just telling me the Yankees played seven but I knew that already you know I don't really
00:26:46 ◼ ► need that on that the calendar thing um I sounds to me like you're living right brother I think it's
00:26:53 ◼ ► I have a lot of events in mind so I think I think the no more events thing I think it hopefully it'll
00:26:58 ◼ ► change I I could I really you know again I I just like a constant refrain of the last decade is I
00:27:05 ◼ ► know like at some point around a decade ago we collectively realized that adding preferences
00:27:12 ◼ ► every time there's any kind of dispute over something is not the way to build sustainable
00:27:16 ◼ ► software for years to come because eventually you end up with you know at any given one feature
00:27:22 ◼ ► it's not a bad idea but as a general principle if you keep doing that you end up with these
00:27:26 ◼ ► crazy you know there's way too many preferences here and you're lost trying to find anything but
00:27:31 ◼ ► i do think that maybe this one should be a setting and the reason why is that i feel like some people
00:27:50 ◼ ► day. Seems like the people on the side of saying get rid of it are much more passionate
00:27:56 ◼ ► Yeah, I wouldn't mind too if there was some way that it would show the argument I've seen
00:28:04 ◼ ► because it would make them feel like the calendar wasn't syncing anymore, you know, that it had lost
00:28:11 ◼ ► the connection and that their watch was no—and that they do have an event upcoming, but that
00:28:16 ◼ ► the watch isn't reading it, you know, that somehow. I don't know. I can't really buy that.
00:28:23 ◼ ► Pete: It's interesting because I used a Pebble for a long time, right up until the time the Apple
00:28:28 ◼ ► Watch released, and I was always—the Pebble was always losing connection with the phone. And,
00:28:35 ◼ ► you know, whether it was a calendar entry or the weather or whatever, it just, you know, it was
00:28:41 ◼ ► clearly bad or old data. And ever since the Apple Watch arrived, I mean, that's just not even an
00:28:47 ◼ ► issue for me. I always know that if I look at the weather, it's going to be the actual current
00:28:51 ◼ ► weather actually where I'm located, or the calendar data is going to be accurate. There's
00:28:55 ◼ ► been no failure. I mean, I have complete faith in it at this point. And I guess that's probably
00:28:59 ◼ ► unfair to Pebble because they're not Apple. They don't have the same access to the operating system
00:29:04 ◼ ► that the Apple Watch guys had, but boy, it just works. In fact, that's the weird thing about the
00:29:09 ◼ ► watches. You don't fiddle with it much. In my case, I mean, once I figured it out, I just
00:29:14 ◼ ► started wearing it and it was my watch. And that was that. What's your watch face? Utility.
00:29:25 ◼ ► what do they call it no but what color what's your what's your highlight color for you orange
00:29:28 ◼ ► orange same here yeah the default i love it yeah yeah me too my high school was black and orange
00:29:33 ◼ ► and i always thought that those they were it not just out of like sheer loyalty you know to
00:29:40 ◼ ► whatever shitty colors your high school had i always thought it was that it was a good look
00:29:45 ◼ ► and a rare one that there's not many teams in sports with black and orange were you the tigers
00:29:51 ◼ ► No, we were the mountaineers. Tigers is a natural. I bet, you know, Tigers is usually like the
00:30:01 ◼ ► My high school is black and orange. For a minute there, I thought we may have gone to the same
00:30:11 ◼ ► what do they call it, the budget Darth Vader watch, you know, the black aluminum with the
00:30:17 ◼ ► rubber band, the black rubber, and the orange, it looks really nice together. I do the same thing
00:30:22 ◼ ► when I use the modular face. I have them all orange. Yeah, yeah, I like the orange. My son
00:30:26 ◼ ► has it as red, which I've seen a lot of people with screenshots, you know, for modular. He's a
00:30:32 ◼ ► digital guy. You get his watch. Last time I heard you talking, he hadn't got it. No, he got it,
00:30:38 ◼ ► ahead of schedule. So everything we've ordered for the house has shown up except for my
00:30:51 ◼ ► My oldest daughter is freshman in college. She got one and she got it finally. And she,
00:30:57 ◼ ► she sent me a, a diagram on it. I'm like, oh, cool. She's sending me a message. She wrote poop.
00:31:22 ◼ ► I don't know if that's really gonna be a thing. The heartbeat thing with my wife, that's cool.
00:32:39 ◼ ► you put them in your friends list, that 12-spot friends list, and if they have an Apple Watch,
00:32:46 ◼ ► they have three options. Yeah, the center button exists. And if not, they don't. And so,
00:32:51 ◼ ► I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago, like in anticipation, I figured, I didn't know,
00:32:58 ◼ ► but I figured that Jim Dalrymple would be getting a watch before April 24th. So every day,
00:33:34 ◼ ► maybe you have more than 12 people that have watches and just seems like a very limiting interface for something that they clearly intend to be a
00:33:45 ◼ ► That is that you can do with there's only two buttons on the thing hardware buttons and one of them when you single press it
00:34:04 ◼ ► Really limited I it's just really weird and now that I'm filled up with 12 somebody I forget who it was but somebody sent me a
00:34:17 ◼ ► And I wanted to add them to my list, but I already had 12 and then at that point what you have to do is
00:34:48 ◼ ► Quite frankly, it's already changed because it's a very different interface from what they showed in September
00:34:58 ◼ ► I actually forget but I know it wasn't a circle. I totally forget what it was in September,
00:35:02 ◼ ► but I know it wasn't a circle. It's hard to look up on that because Apple sort of thrown
00:35:08 ◼ ► the September thing down the memory hole. It's fun though. It's fun having this watch on and
00:35:13 ◼ ► getting notifications on my wrist and just the basic stuff. But it's also just fun like sending
00:35:18 ◼ ► taps to people and I don't know. I think they've done a good job with it. Yeah, I do too. So you
00:35:24 ◼ ► living in Orange County, I saw that when you first got it and you wrote up your experiences
00:35:31 ◼ ► with it right away, you had gone to Disneyland and it looked like typical Orange County weather.
00:35:36 ◼ ► It was sunny. That to me is as it gets nicer and nicer here in Philadelphia as we go into May from
00:35:44 ◼ ► April and it's a lot fewer overcast days and a lot of more days like today where it's just absolutely
00:35:53 ◼ ► Pete: Yeah, that, in direct sunlight, it is harder to read. Although, I think that's one of maybe
00:35:59 ◼ ► the reasons I like the utility face. It's very easy to see. I mean, the hands are big enough
00:36:06 ◼ ► that you're just fine. Like the chronograph, I don't know, I don't think I could read that.
00:36:13 ◼ ► Pete: Yeah, because the hands are hollow, they're not filled, and the extra superfluous stuff.
00:36:20 ◼ ► um there's just no way i could read that stuff i'm i'm 47 there's just it's not even possible
00:36:26 ◼ ► i i don't even know what those what they're doing in there i can't maybe a magnifying glass or
00:36:31 ◼ ► something but the uh yeah it's it's great um the uh i haven't had a whole lot of trouble i i can't
00:36:37 ◼ ► if i take on direct sunlight i can see how the uh the panel's not attached to the glass like i've
00:36:48 ◼ ► I don't know about that. I remember there was an ATP episode a couple of weeks ago where they were talking about
00:36:59 ◼ ► Might get this detail wrong, but I think and then in the next episode and their follow-up
00:37:04 ◼ ► there was one of the Johnny I've videos where they said on Johnny I've said on some of the on some of the watches the
00:37:20 ◼ ► I think it looks pretty close and I think that in certain lighting you can definitely see the display through the sapphire
00:37:35 ◼ ► I wonder if well and the ATB guys brought it up what Johnny I've said and it's just his recording
00:37:45 ◼ ► All of them are fused and but some only some of them have sapphire or does he mean only the ones who are sapphire or fused?
00:38:04 ◼ ► I can really see the difference like this is the first time ever that I've had seen an Apple product where I
00:38:13 ◼ ► I really couldn't. I think the 38 actually looks good on my wrist. I think I could totally get by
00:38:18 ◼ ► with it in terms of the size, but I actually do struggle to read it in a way that I don't
00:38:23 ◼ ► struggle to read the 42. Yeah, I am. My wife's, because I had the black one, those were
00:38:29 ◼ ► constrained. So my wife's blue phone, I'm sorry, blue watch with the silver aluminum showed up
00:38:36 ◼ ► on day one and she let me wear it for a few days because I wanted to fiddle with it more than she
00:38:40 ◼ ► did and it was 38 and it was fine and looked good on me but but i agree once the bigger one showed up
00:38:46 ◼ ► i knew exactly that was that was for me i think adam had the same thing didn't he was saying he
00:38:50 ◼ ► did the same thing so like for example on the uh chronograph is a perfect now i don't really use
00:38:55 ◼ ► the chronograph that much although i do sometimes the reason i like it is that you can just switch
00:38:59 ◼ ► to chronograph so i have chronograph two two watch faces over and then you're one tap away from
00:39:05 ◼ ► starting a timer or a stopwatch like if you wanted to you know um you know like i do like when i put
00:39:12 ◼ ► charcoal on the grill and then just boom start a stopwatch and then i know you know once it gets
00:39:16 ◼ ► like 25 minutes start checking it to see if it's ready um yeah serie timer awesome yeah just hold
00:39:23 ◼ ► it down um but with the 38 millimeter with my son's 38 millimeter i can't read the sub dials
00:39:29 ◼ ► on the chronograph. It makes me feel incredibly old. There's a second hand underneath, and
00:39:37 ◼ ► it depends how you have it configured, but there's two subdials. That's what those little
00:39:48 ◼ ► Pete: It was about your age I am. I noticed I was holding books out further and further
00:39:53 ◼ ► from me as I read them. And someone said, you know, you may have, you know, you may have a
00:39:58 ◼ ► problem there. And I we were at Costco, I'll never forget. And they had, you know, the sample reading
00:40:02 ◼ ► glasses. And I put a pair on and looked at some words. And I'm just like, God damn, I'm getting
00:40:08 ◼ ► old. I'm looking at I fix it on their teardown of an aluminum one. And it's not clear, but it looks
00:40:14 ◼ ► like it may be attached. It's pretty close to the surface. And I think that the effect, the overall
00:40:19 ◼ ► effect of the entire black surface, whichever model you have, looks like it's the display
00:40:28 ◼ ► and the actual display just takes up, you know, some portion within it with these generous
00:40:39 ◼ ► stuff out to the corner, they're really writing it right out to the corner of the display.
00:40:44 ◼ ► that's crazy. When you take a screenshot and you see you're like, wow, that doesn't look
00:41:52 ◼ ► because I walk a lot too, and I'm thinking, "I'm doing great with exercise. I'm walking all over
00:41:56 ◼ ► the place." But wearing the watch for the first week, I realized, you know, I didn't do anything
00:42:00 ◼ ► to raise my heart rate the whole week. So now, the watch actually has changed my behavior. So now I'm
00:42:05 ◼ ► like looking for hills to climb or spending a little time every day to kind of get my heart
00:42:10 ◼ ► rate up and and i'm not sure if it's just the newness of the watch if this will stick or not
00:42:15 ◼ ► but it bothers me now when i get the end day i haven't got my 30 minutes of elevated heart rate
00:42:25 ◼ ► enthusiast but i'm wearing it every day and so now i've got you know i'm up to like six weeks now of
00:42:31 ◼ ► you know daily stuff it is keeping me from like wearing my old watch like it's like the one of
00:42:37 ◼ ► the main, it's probably the main thing that's keeping me from just wearing my old watch on,
00:42:43 ◼ ► you know, just for kicks, which is something I used to, you know, I used to switch between two
00:42:47 ◼ ► watches. And I anticipated that I wouldn't want to wear my Apple Watch every single day, or maybe
00:42:52 ◼ ► even not most days, but the fitness stuff kind of motivates me to, and I've heard other people say
00:42:56 ◼ ► the same thing, because you don't want to have, you don't want to lose a day and have a day where
00:42:59 ◼ ► it, you know, makes it look like you never got out of bed. Yeah. Or even like when you get out of bed
00:43:05 ◼ ► in the morning and let's say I'm gonna be working in pajamas for two hours, I'll still put the watch
00:43:10 ◼ ► on because I know I'm going to be going up and down the steps and doing something. I don't want
00:43:14 ◼ ► to lose that credit. So it's funny. I'm very motivated to get this watch on as soon as I wake
00:43:18 ◼ ► up in the morning. Yeah. I do find though I still find like, before we move on from watch stuff,
00:43:25 ◼ ► but I do find I'm still right from my first review one week after wearing it. I still am annoyed when
00:44:01 ◼ ► I was just so annoyed even though I was only 10 seconds away from being able to set it down and
00:44:06 ◼ ► see what it was. But it's like if you're going to give me the tap, I want to see the goddamn thing.
00:44:10 ◼ ► Tom Bilyeu: You know, my take on that is that they, at some point they said, the one story we
00:44:16 ◼ ► never want written about the Apple Watch is that the battery dies at 5pm. I think they said, you
00:44:21 ◼ ► know, more than anything. And like, it also bothers me that that it turns off in like, was it six
00:44:26 ◼ ► seconds? Because sometimes I actually need more than six seconds, six seconds to process what's
00:44:30 ◼ ► on the screen. And I just feel like somewhere they said, you know, we're going to make it
00:44:34 ◼ ► extra sensitive. We're not going to make it turn on. Just anytime you flick your wrist,
00:44:38 ◼ ► we're not going to leave it on long. And we're never going to have a story written that says
00:44:42 ◼ ► it turned—that the battery died at five. And I think they, you know, they kind of went too far.
00:44:46 ◼ ► I mean, I go to bed, things at 45 percent battery left, and that's after an 18-hour day. I mean,
00:44:51 ◼ ► Darrell Bock Yeah. For me, the battery's been such a non-issue. The only time I ever got vaguely
00:44:56 ◼ ► close never once ran it all the way down but one time in the first week while i was really you know
00:45:01 ◼ ► working pretty much morning tonight on how am i going to write this first review of the watch
00:45:07 ◼ ► you know when the embargo drops next week uh i mean and really using it in a way that was not
00:45:13 ◼ ► reflective of the daily use of it it was really more like i'm i'm i was almost like a quality
00:45:18 ◼ ► assistance tester you know like i'm testing the watch like it was my job to play with it all day
00:45:22 ◼ ► I ran it down to the like 10% or something like that. But that was that was truly abnormal. I do
00:45:33 ◼ ► but I think the difference between 38 and 42 on battery life is truly significant because it seems
00:45:38 ◼ ► like my wife and son who both have 38 definitely finished the day lower. Neither one has ever run
00:45:45 ◼ ► out but they're both significantly lower. I was thinking I'd be buying an extra magnetic charger
00:45:53 ◼ ► and like keep it in my car and I had all these like ideas when I first heard about the watch and
00:45:57 ◼ ► I don't need any of that stuff for me it's just plug it in at the end you know charge at the end
00:46:02 ◼ ► of the day you're fine yeah but if I had a setting and I feel like the other thing they wanted to do
00:46:05 ◼ ► I think you're exactly right that they said we don't want anybody saying that this thing is
00:46:39 ◼ ► were times where I would, you know, spur the moment, wind up sleeping somewhere that wasn't
00:46:54 ◼ ► I don't even mean to imply anything. I don't mean to imply anything, any kind of even adult
00:47:17 ◼ ► a network game, you had to be on the LAN. So that's a perfect example, where there's nothing...
00:47:26 ◼ ► in college, I sometimes would not sleep in my bedroom. Or I wouldn't come home until six or
00:47:33 ◼ ► or seven in the morning, you know, in which case I do wonder whether the why I don't know
00:47:40 ◼ ► But then these like charging straps and weird things are showing up. I think that's all
00:47:45 ◼ ► completely been it's crazy to me. And I don't understand because you have to the only way
00:47:49 ◼ ► to charge it is to is underneath and that's going to it. I don't see how that can possibly
00:47:53 ◼ ► work with the with the sensors that they have. Because the sensors start going bananas if
00:48:01 ◼ ► It's funny how much time we spend, as geeks, thinking about battery life and batteries,
00:48:12 ◼ ► And charging life and battery time is so key. And it's the big constraint right now, too. So
00:48:18 ◼ ► everything you think about charging. I'm obsessive about it. I have charging docks all over my house.
00:48:25 ◼ ► And if I'm just sitting here right now, my phone's in a charger. It doesn't need to be. It's at 100%.
00:48:30 ◼ ► percent it's you know one o'clock in the afternoon but i can't help myself have you found that your
00:48:36 ◼ ► watch or your iphone gets worse battery life now that you're using it with your watch i haven't
00:48:41 ◼ ► noticed any i'm convinced that i am i'm convinced that and i think it's because i never used anything
00:48:46 ◼ ► bluetooth before and so yeah i had it on for um uh what's the feature called hand uh does hand
00:49:02 ◼ ► Yeah, it may not. But I know that like AirDrop requires Bluetooth. But it only ever... Before I
00:49:08 ◼ ► started using Apple Watch, I was only ever had the gray Bluetooth in the status bar. The gray
00:49:15 ◼ ► Bluetooth means like Bluetooth is on, but you're not connected to anything. It's just low power
00:49:21 ◼ ► mode and it's there for like, "Oh, okay. Hey, you can hand off this webpage or this email that you've
00:49:27 ◼ ► started writing on your phone to this other thing and it only really does anything but now it's black
00:49:32 ◼ ► all the time it's the black bluetooth because it's connected to the watch and i'm convinced i'm
00:49:36 ◼ ► getting worse battery life on the phone i'm still making it through the day but i'm dropping into
00:49:40 ◼ ► the red whereas in the first few months of using an iphone 6 i never was in the red yeah i use
00:49:46 ◼ ► bluetooth headphones and stuff all day long so it's uh i can't tell any difference i'll tell you
00:49:52 ◼ ► one thing about the watch that I didn't expect to like as much as I do is the whole force touch
00:49:57 ◼ ► thing. I mean, it's just, I'm finding, I'm finding, I really like having that additional user
00:50:03 ◼ ► interface, you know, methodology, like just clearing your notifications with a force press.
00:50:08 ◼ ► You know, it's, I hope that that stuff makes its way to the phone. I've said this before,
00:50:13 ◼ ► and I know it sounds like a joke, but my number two, I have two tips for anybody who gets sample
00:50:18 ◼ ► watch is I know what you're going to do is what you're going to do is you're gonna rip open a box
00:50:22 ◼ ► and you're gonna put it on and you're gonna go through the pairing process and just start using it and exploring and doing it on your own.
00:50:30 ◼ ► Um, open it up, put it on, play with it, and then a day or two later when you feel like you're confused,
00:50:35 ◼ ► you feel like you're not getting it all. Here's the two things to do. Go back to your packaging and reread
00:50:40 ◼ ► the Getting Started pamphlet, which is just six panels. I'm not saying read the user manual. I'm saying just read that Getting Started panel,
00:50:51 ◼ ► because you I guarantee you most people will find something that they didn't know or didn't remember
00:50:58 ◼ ► like oh that's how you do Apple pay you start by double tapping that button like because I'll admit
00:51:04 ◼ ► when I I'll admit it's like when I would the first week that I would had the Apple watch I I
00:51:11 ◼ ► couldn't get Apple pay to work I went to Whole Foods and I held my watch up to the I figured it
00:51:15 ◼ ► worked like the phone I knew that I had to double tap that button to confirm it I just figured you
00:51:20 ◼ ► start by holding your watch up to the terminal and then when it pings like okay ready for apple pay
00:51:24 ◼ ► then you double tap to confirm and nothing happened and i thought oh well maybe i didn't set it up right
00:51:30 ◼ ► and then event you know but just read that pamphlet i'm telling you you're going to learn
00:51:35 ◼ ► something and there's so many questions i see it on twitter every day when because people are still
00:51:39 ◼ ► getting their watches and they're asking questions that are answered in that that pamphlet and then
00:51:44 ◼ ► then my it's like the the one that where he double tap the the crown it goes to the last
00:52:05 ◼ ► tapping everywhere just any app you use whether it's from apple whether it's from a third
00:52:39 ◼ ► that hasn't really been an issue for me. But the other one that I, I thought was kind of unfair is
00:52:44 ◼ ► that the whole thing about saying, well, this is a different interface, and it's harder to figure
00:52:47 ◼ ► out, well, it is a different interface, it's a smaller screen. But I don't think you should
00:52:53 ◼ ► expect it any different. I do think maybe it would be better if there was a way if, you know,
00:53:00 ◼ ► there's two buttons, or what if there's one button you could press that would always give you a watch
00:53:17 ◼ ► before this show airs. We're recording on Thursday. It's probably going to air on Friday.
00:53:24 ◼ ► Stephen Orth, I'll link to it. I'll definitely have it linked from Daring Fireball. I will try
00:53:43 ◼ ► And one of his ideas was that he thought that maybe the side button, instead of being underneath
00:54:26 ◼ ► I've been trying, I've been experimenting with Wunderlist for like shopping and stuff like that.
00:54:31 ◼ ► Like create a little shopping list in Wunderlist and then it's on my wrist and I don't have to go
00:54:36 ◼ ► through the supermarket fiddling with a phone. I can just keep going to my wrist. But I find that
00:54:40 ◼ ► sometimes, you know, I'll try to hit the top item to either check it off and I'll hit the back button
00:54:45 ◼ ► that goes back to my list of lists or I'll try to go back to the back of the list of lists and I end
00:54:49 ◼ ► up checking the top item. So his idea is put a hardware button to go back, which I don't think is
00:54:55 ◼ ► is a good idea. And I think if you put it opposite the digital crown, it would actually
00:54:58 ◼ ► create the same sort of problem people have with the power button and the volume up button
00:55:03 ◼ ► on the iPhone six, where people, cause they're opposite each other and when people put their
00:55:21 ◼ ► the Upgrade podcast a few weeks ago did kind of a thing about this. And Mike made the point that,
00:55:31 ◼ ► You know, and I thought he made a really great point that it should be all there should be one
00:55:35 ◼ ► button that just gets you to the watch face at any time. And the problem with the digital crown is
00:55:40 ◼ ► that it's inconsistent. Sometimes it does that sometimes it goes somewhere else. And I you know,
00:55:45 ◼ ► what the guys at Apple, I'm sure they spent a lot of time figuring this out. But but I do
00:55:49 ◼ ► appreciate the idea of just every user knows they press one button and the watch face comes up and
00:55:55 ◼ ► from there hopefully you figured out gestures enough to be able to get to wherever you need to
00:55:59 ◼ ► go. Yeah, it's a great, I really do think that that's true and I think calling the list of apps
00:56:04 ◼ ► the home screen, I don't even know if Apple is calling it the home screen, I don't know if they
00:56:07 ◼ ► even call it that but it's not, you know, and it only serves to confuse you to make you think that
00:56:14 ◼ ► it's that that watch works like a little iPhone. And I do think that that is a great point. Because
00:56:22 ◼ ► I think part of the beauty of iOS is that the way that's the way the home button works,
00:56:26 ◼ ► no matter where you are, you can hit that home button, and it's going to take you to the home
00:56:30 ◼ ► screen. But then looking at my wife and daughter, who neither one of them are geeks, or want to be
00:56:36 ◼ ► Mac power users or anything like that, they use the watch is just fine. You know, I mean, they
00:57:36 ◼ ► to be part of it. I think the one that excited me the most when it came out was the iPad
00:57:40 ◼ ► because it just, I don't know, I just felt like it was such a great idea and it was just
00:57:52 ◼ ► spent weeks just like going over every detail and just playing with them. And the thing
00:57:57 ◼ ► about the watch is I didn't spend that much time fiddling with it. I mean, I kind of got
00:58:06 ◼ ► on with my day, but I'm just using it just as intended all the time. I think it's a good
00:58:13 ◼ ► Yeah, definitely. Hold that thought though. Let's take a break and talk about our second
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01:01:19 ◼ ► It would help if we had the Casper mattresses and the Hello Pillows, but we don't as they're
01:03:31 ◼ ► Just activated it while you were talking and I can see that see I know you're very particular about typography
01:03:38 ◼ ► So I never thought you'd be the guy who who tested that I think you would want the the built-in
01:03:44 ◼ ► But I really love it and especially here's where I especially love the bold text is on watch faces
01:03:51 ◼ ► Not even I feel like it looks a little bit weird when you get like a text and you see the text, you know
01:04:25 ◼ ► light-ish version of San Francisco to a like a medium bold semi-bold version of San Francisco
01:04:31 ◼ ► and I feel like it's a really good look and in a way that to me looks a lot like like a lot of
01:04:37 ◼ ► real mechanical watches have fonts on the dial that are of this rough weight you know yeah and
01:04:45 ◼ ► it really and to me it also to go back to the viewing it in sunlight it makes the complication
01:04:50 ◼ ► text easier for me to read in sunlight. Do you think they're going to allow developers to submit
01:04:56 ◼ ► their own watch faces at any point? No, I do not. I really don't because I think that or I think
01:05:05 ◼ ► most likely no. And I think if they do, it'll be a system that runs like the way Apple TV runs today,
01:05:20 ◼ ► there will, you know, there's an app store already for apps that has thousands of apps from anybody
01:05:26 ◼ ► and everybody. I think if they ever do third party watch faces, it would be like Apple TV,
01:05:31 ◼ ► and it would be a cultivated list that's hand selected and approved by Apple at a very high
01:05:37 ◼ ► level. Yeah, it's like on the pebble they had, you know, it was just it was a crazy I mean, people
01:05:43 ◼ ► had these nutty faces, but then occasionally, someone would do like a really classy futura
01:05:49 ◼ ► based watch face that looked really, really actually better than anything that they had
01:06:07 ◼ ► Pete; I have a pre-order in for the Pebble Time. I keep wanting to call it Pebble Color,
01:06:26 ◼ ► But for me, the thing that kills it is the fact that the display is so clearly different
01:07:42 ◼ ► Massive massive companies like apple and google who have these resources that are just so hard for them to match
01:07:49 ◼ ► Well, they can't match the resources, but the fact that they can't makes it harder for them
01:07:56 ◼ ► But like the android wear versus apple watch there's it's not even a debate like whatever, you know
01:08:07 ◼ ► And I know there's rumors that they're going to make it work with it, you know, like in
01:08:14 ◼ ► But it's not going to be the level of integration that Apple Watch has, because they're only
01:08:17 ◼ ► going to be able to do the things that like Pebble can do with iOS, which is all limited
01:08:27 ◼ ► And you're going to have this fiddly setup process for Bluetooth where you have to enter
01:08:40 ◼ ► I grew up in the era where you'd be trying to use a Palm Pilot with a Mac or a Tandy—you
01:08:50 ◼ ► All these technology that wasn't Apple-based trying to get to work with Apple, and it was
01:09:03 ◼ ► the thing that really—I had a handspring visor. My wife had one too, and she probably used it more
01:09:08 ◼ ► than I did, which is pretty interesting because, you know, this was back around '99, 2000. And I
01:09:15 ◼ ► remember it was when I was working at Barebone Software, and my pal Jim Korea, who's now at
01:09:19 ◼ ► the Omni Group, like, he did like the best thing ever. He bought like 25, like, replacement styluses
01:09:25 ◼ ► for the handspring visor. So it was like a jar of candy on his desk, like, you know, just go,
01:09:35 ◼ ► >> Right, but then you never had to worry about it, because losing your goddamn stylus was—and
01:09:43 ◼ ► syncing your stuff to your Mac was the biggest. I think it was what kept me from—eventually
01:09:48 ◼ ► made me abandon it. And part of the problem, too, is that the Macs of that era didn't really have
01:09:52 ◼ ► standard system databases for things like that. There was no built-in contacts in the classic Mac
01:09:58 ◼ ► was there was no standard contact. So it's like you could sync with something, but it was like a
01:10:07 ◼ ► I tell people, because when everybody, somebody gets into the discussion with me about app
01:10:12 ◼ ► pricing, I talk to them about how my PalmPilot, about every month or two, it would just duplicate
01:10:17 ◼ ► all of my contacts. And if I didn't fix it in another month, I would have four copies of every
01:10:24 ◼ ► contact and so on. And somebody made an app and it was $50. And all it did was go out and knock
01:10:30 ◼ ► out duplications. And I was so happy to pay it, you know. And now it's like, oh, this app will
01:10:36 ◼ ► change your life. And it'll be you know, allow you to get your work done and go home earlier.
01:10:47 ◼ ► It's so true. I think software is crazy. It's like an inverse curve to like the price of a
01:11:01 ◼ ► cup of coffee. The more coffee gets, the less willing people are willing to pay for apps.
01:11:12 ◼ ► Joanna Stern of the Wall Street Journal had a, her column a couple of weeks ago was about
01:11:18 ◼ ► how to fix up your contacts database. You know, that if you, like her, over the years have wound
01:11:27 ◼ ► up, like she had like four entries for her dad, like one was just his email, one was just his
01:11:31 ◼ ► phone number, you know, one, you know, like if you have a relative, like you have an Uncle Bob, but
01:11:37 ◼ ► he's also listed as Robert, you know, and it's two entries, and you know, that there's a bunch of
01:11:41 ◼ ► these utilities that you can buy to fix it all. And I saw in the comments, people were like, "Four
01:11:49 ◼ ► dollars!" But it would save you. It's like her whole thing was like, if you have 500 contacts
01:11:59 ◼ ► and you did it by hand, if these apps can help you, you could easily save an hour. And so,
01:12:10 ◼ ► Imagine you're on your deathbed and you can say you can live another hour. It cost you four dollars
01:12:15 ◼ ► What are you gonna say? You know, I mean, I don't know. All right. So speaking speaking of hourly billing
01:12:33 ◼ ► I've been doing it for 21 years, but um, I was in a law firm the whole time until about two months ago and I
01:13:15 ◼ ► Tom Bilyeu: Yeah, it's weird. It's like maybe, looking back, I guess I'll know in a few years,
01:13:21 ◼ ► it's a very public thing when you quit a job that pays well and you've got insurance and all that
01:13:27 ◼ ► stuff. And you're like, "Okay, and I'm going to do that and I'm going to write about the Mac and do
01:13:32 ◼ ► some law stuff too, but I wanted to have more control. And you know, just, you know, as you
01:13:38 ◼ ► get older, you just, that control thing is more important to you. I don't know, maybe at some
01:13:42 ◼ ► point I wanted to be like a big time lawyer in a big time firm, but that's just not me. I like
01:13:47 ◼ ► representing small guys. My clients are, you know, I represent a lot of software developers and I do
01:13:53 ◼ ► contracts for them and stuff like that, you know. So this was something I could have done on my own,
01:13:58 ◼ ► but I just didn't want the overhead. I didn't want any more meetings. I just didn't want all
01:14:02 ◼ ► the stuff that comes with being as part of a big operation. And I've also been doing the Max
01:14:08 ◼ ► Sparky stuff, so I wanted to be able to have more time for that. So I figured out if I worked a
01:14:13 ◼ ► little bit less as a lawyer and a little bit more as Max Sparky, I'd have a better balance in my
01:14:17 ◼ ► life. So I went out and announced that I've done this, and now the whole world can watch me go down
01:14:22 ◼ ► in flames or make it work. I'm not sure. I'm still in that point with you where I'm looking at the
01:14:25 ◼ ► Excel spreadsheet every month. But it feels absolutely the right thing. I mean, I was just
01:14:32 ◼ ► telling my wife, I said, "I've got to make this work because there's no way I could ever go work
01:14:35 ◼ ► for somebody ever again. I've got to make this work." But so far, it's great and I love it. And
01:14:41 ◼ ► the community has been really good to me too. Pete: Jason Kocke and I had dinner a month or so
01:14:46 ◼ ► ago. Actually, it was when I got the review for the Apple Watch. I went to New York the
01:14:51 ◼ ► night before just so I wouldn't have to take the train in the morning. And Jason Kaki and I had
01:14:56 ◼ ► dinner and we were talking about how having been successful at this and having done it for ourselves
01:15:00 ◼ ► full-time for some number of years now has more or less rendered us completely unemployable.
01:15:08 ◼ ► Jon: I'm certainly well-known and I think that if I needed to get a job, I could certainly find one,
01:15:16 ◼ ► you know, and then I think I would be I would be let go within a day or two, they would be like,
01:15:21 ◼ ► this is this isn't working. Well, one of the things that surprised me about this whole thing was,
01:15:27 ◼ ► I got a lot of new clients from Max Barkie. I mean, people had been listening to me in their
01:15:34 ◼ ► ear, you know, power of podcasting and writing for all these years now, like, hey, I could actually
01:15:39 ◼ ► use you to help me with some stuff. And, and that was a surprise to me, I had no expectation of any
01:15:46 ◼ ► legal business from all this stuff. And so that was kind of nice, but, but it's also given me
01:15:51 ◼ ► more time. So, you know, I'm working from home, I have an office, but I work from home more than I
01:15:57 ◼ ► go into the office. And I love it. I'm, you did a, I think a tweet like years ago, just, you know,
01:16:02 ◼ ► going back, when you said, here's my new work shoes, and you had a pair of slippers. Do you
01:16:06 ◼ ► remember that? I don't know if you probably don't even know I do remember. Every since then that has
01:16:11 ◼ ► stuck in my brain and it's kind of pissed me off. I'm like, "Gruber can have those slippers as work
01:16:16 ◼ ► shoes. I need to find a way to make that work." And hey, I'm there. Man, it feels good. In fact,
01:16:25 ◼ ► My year of work shoes is, right now I'm in the socks period, just wearing a pair of socks.
01:16:50 ◼ ► Ted: Yeah. I'm upset though, at the slippers, I think the tweet is a couple years old, and that
01:17:35 ◼ ► But I feel like I could take them out of the boxes. I feel like if I could take them out of
01:17:45 ◼ ► I'm definitely one of those habit people. When I was going into the office every day and I didn't
01:17:52 ◼ ► have court. I had like eight pairs of lands in gray slacks and like 12 blue shirts. And every
01:18:02 ◼ ► day I wear the same thing and everything in the office thought I was such a weirdo. But it just
01:18:06 ◼ ► made so much sense to me just to get out of bed and shower and put that on. That was the uniform.
01:18:12 ◼ ► Pete: I think that the slippers I loved the most were lands end, actually, and then they stopped
01:18:15 ◼ ► making them. And in fact, I go through slippers. This job is so hard, David. I go through slippers
01:18:22 ◼ ► so fast. I've, in fact, I've noticed that the slippers that I've been wearing the last year or two,
01:18:26 ◼ ► now that they're sort of put away for the warm weather, I noticed that they're sort of worn
01:18:40 ◼ ► Ted; Mine as well. I mean, he also died of black lung. I mean, it's just, I mean, you stop and
01:18:47 ◼ ► think about it. Or my, you know, my other grandfather, during the Depression, they didn't
01:18:51 ◼ ► have any money, they would go out into the backwoods of Massachusetts and trap Red Fox.
01:18:55 ◼ ► And that's how they ate, and that's how they got by. And I'm sitting here going, "Ah, the font on
01:19:09 ◼ ► Pete: Well, I think on the one hand, my grandfather would have been, no, I think first he would have
01:19:15 ◼ ► been very very proud because I think it was exactly the you know he personified that American
01:19:21 ◼ ► dream of I want my kids to have a better life than me you know my mom was a registered nurse went to
01:19:27 ◼ ► nursing school uh and her brother was uh he didn't go he went to like a trade school and was into
01:19:33 ◼ ► like electronics like it sort of was you know that the gadget or still does he's you know he's
01:19:38 ◼ ► you know he had like he was like the first guy I knew in my life who he had a video game system
01:19:48 ◼ ► '77, something like that. You know, but they, both of them ended up with white collar jobs. Well,
01:19:55 ◼ ► registered nurses, probably hard to call white collar. I mean, that's physical. But it's,
01:20:00 ◼ ► you know, it requires, you know, an education. And it's certainly better than coal mining. And
01:20:06 ◼ ► I think he would have been delighted that his grandson, you know, had a job that is, you know,
01:20:11 ◼ ► like mine. But I don't know that he would have had much tolerance for my complaints about the—
01:20:17 ◼ ► Pete: Yeah. I come from very blue collar roots too. My dad was actually really concerned when I said
01:20:23 ◼ ► I'm going to go to law school. He's like, "That's going to ruin you." He says, "There's just no way
01:20:27 ◼ ► you'll be able to be a decent person and a lawyer." And it's funny, he was totally honest when he
01:20:33 ◼ ► said it, and it has affected my life in so many ways that concern, it's always in the back of
01:20:39 ◼ ► my head. And, you know, at points in my legal career where I could have jumped right or left,
01:20:51 ◼ ► Pete: Yeah. I had a, I took an Instagram, here, let me put it in here. I took an Instagram the
01:20:55 ◼ ► other week and it, I let it slide. This is like my thing and it's, I get, when I get criticism on
01:21:04 ◼ ► I just have a thick skin and I let stuff slide. But that's the picture I took. And there's a hotel
01:21:11 ◼ ► a couple blocks away here in Philly. It's a real seedy motel. If you look at the Yelp reviews for
01:21:16 ◼ ► it, it's called the Parker Spruce. It's like the type of—it literally is the type of hotel where
01:21:22 ◼ ► you can go in and rent, you know, you can get it by the hour. And it is closing. I didn't know this
01:21:29 ◼ ► this until after I took this picture, but it was a picture of these guys taking mattresses
01:21:45 ◼ ► And I thought it was fascinating, but the caption I wrote is, "No one grows up thinking
01:21:55 ◼ ► of people in the comments are like, "Wow, what a dicky comment," as though I was making
01:21:58 ◼ ► fun of these guys. And I guess you could read it that way, but that isn't what I meant at
01:22:03 ◼ ► all. Honestly, to me, it was just like a slice of life. And I have nothing but total respect
01:22:16 ◼ ► That's a fucking job, taking those mattresses out of a hotel." And it's May, it's not hot,
01:22:30 ◼ ► And these guys are moving, I don't know what it looks like, there's like at least a dozen
01:22:37 ◼ ► I thought it was so weird that people jumped on me as though I was mocking these people.
01:22:45 ◼ ► this will help you appreciate whatever it is you do that is probably a lot less arduous
01:22:57 ◼ ► So I don't know, I just let it slide. But anybody who saw that and who thought I was making fun of
01:23:02 ◼ ► them, I really didn't mean it that way at all. I meant it. I mean, the way I kind of, it's like
01:23:07 ◼ ► talking earlier, I mean, you would go back to work for a software developer, if that's what it took,
01:23:12 ◼ ► you know, or, you know, whatever we, I would dig ditches, if that's what it, whatever it takes,
01:23:16 ◼ ► you know, I mean, and, you know, I just think we're lucky that we're able to get by without
01:23:21 ◼ ► happen to do that stuff at this point exactly because i'd be really lousy at digging ditches
01:23:33 ◼ ► you guys know however it's the best place on the internet to register a domain name you need a
01:23:42 ◼ ► domain name you need a new domain name go to hover.com and start searching they've got great
01:23:52 ◼ ► which have really opened a lot of one- and two-word, you know, this, that, dot, whatever.
01:23:58 ◼ ► You know, there's dot finance, dot coffee, dot local. I guess dot local is bonjour. But anyway,
01:24:05 ◼ ► there's a ton of these new top-level domains. I can't even hope to list them all. Hover can help
01:24:10 ◼ ► you get a new domain on any of them. They can help you find a way to get a domain on dot com,
01:24:20 ◼ ► but even better than that every every domain registrar helps you register domain names but
01:24:34 ◼ ► the top the the domain registrar business is in large part kind of cd it's like the online
01:24:39 ◼ ► equivalent of cd where you go there and uh honestly i'm not going to name names but i can
01:24:44 ◼ ► can think of one that's a big one. You go there and the site is filled with junkie ads.
01:24:50 ◼ ► When you're trying to sign up, there's all sorts of upsells, checkboxes for things that
01:25:00 ◼ ► option at all. Then you find out that if you want DNS privacy so that your personal, your
01:25:06 ◼ ► address and your phone number and et cetera aren't listed out wide open for the internet
01:25:46 ◼ ► You've already, you've seen enough that, you know, yes, I want to move all my domain names
01:25:50 ◼ ► to hover, but I've been registering domain names since 1995 on this, that, and the other
01:26:01 ◼ ► access to your, these other registrars where you have domains and hovers Valley service
01:26:14 ◼ ► They'll move them all into your Hover account, and then all of a sudden, boom, all of your
01:26:25 ◼ ► The valet service is just part of being a Hover customer, and it just cleans up a hassle
01:26:38 ◼ ► really great. I have domain names at hover. I know people, everybody I know has some at
01:27:04 ◼ ► in reference to the fact that the link bracelets on the Apple watch haven't shipped yet or
01:27:16 ◼ ► they'll know that you came from the talk show. So my thanks to hover go to hover.com H O
01:27:22 ◼ ► V E R and use that code missing links and they'll know you came from here. So what else
01:27:32 ◼ ► we got to talk about. I got a new Mac. Yes, I did want to talk to you about that. I got,
01:27:42 ◼ ► you know, pulled in on the new MacBook, the super light 12 inch. All right, you did tell me you got
01:27:48 ◼ ► that. You did not tell me which color I'm going to use my psychic powers. And I'm going to predict
01:27:55 ◼ ► that you purchased space gray you bet you bet i mean i it's something different but it's not gold
01:28:03 ◼ ► so you know uh you know the fact that you can order one i remember when you have to pay extra
01:28:08 ◼ ► for the black one uh definitely the the it was the plastic gear yeah but the uh so that's true
01:28:16 ◼ ► and it's true for the watch right it's talking about the missing links like the space black
01:28:22 ◼ ► link bracelet watch costs more than the stainless steel one now that's not more than just a color
01:28:26 ◼ ► though it's not just anodized that that diamond like what not diamond like carbon what the hell
01:28:31 ◼ ► is it called diamond like carbon coating the dlc coating is a real thing and it actually does add
01:28:37 ◼ ► value you know probably it arguably does add like 100 in value to it but anyway you do have to pay
01:28:42 ◼ ► more for black yeah i i i've you know because of this switch in my life i used to um you know go
01:29:46 ◼ ► were probably excellent. I was. People waited for my boat. They would say, "I want his boat.
01:29:55 ◼ ► and I will tell you some great Jungle Cruise stories. But anyway. You mean John Lasseter
01:30:01 ◼ ► was a Jungle Cruise captain? I do. Of course you do that. I think, I don't think Steve Martin
01:30:06 ◼ ► actually was on the Jungle Cruise. No, I don't think so. Yeah. But yeah, there's actually some
01:30:11 ◼ ► interesting people that are former skippers. It was so much fun. I mean, it was like the greatest
01:30:17 ◼ ► job. And I had it through high school. Even when I was in law school, I would go down there and
01:30:22 ◼ ► work nights because I just needed money. And like the boats would get stuck because at Disneyland,
01:30:27 ◼ ► it's an old ride system and the boats would derail and you'd be stuck out there like 30 minutes. And
01:30:34 ◼ ► you know, you can't do anything. You gotta wait for the guy to come to yank the boat back on the
01:30:41 ◼ ► But the, um, you know, it was anyway, so, but now that I'm like, I have more control over my schedule.
01:30:50 ◼ ► My wife wants to go to Disneyland all the time. So I'll drive her up there. And then I like go,
01:30:53 ◼ ► uh, like over to a quiet restaurant with this new laptop and sit there and write contracts for two
01:30:59 ◼ ► or three hours. And, um, I really like it. But anyway, you know, the, the aside is it's, it's
01:31:04 ◼ ► a nice computer. The keyboard, I don't think, is as good as the standard keyboard, but it's good
01:31:10 ◼ ► enough. Well, and I feel like that using typing on the glass for lo these many years has lowered our
01:31:19 ◼ ► standards for what's an acceptable keyboard. Like it's, you know, in my opinion, and again,
01:32:27 ◼ ► a keyboard as a touch typist. And not only that, she can type on an iPhone while not looking at
01:32:33 ◼ ► the keyboard. I believe it. I totally believe it. And it's, you know, again, it just plays it,
01:32:39 ◼ ► you know, it's a little different than the iPad argument, but not really is it plays into that
01:32:42 ◼ ► argument of, you know, back in 2007 2008, even 2009. As people who are used to Blackberries and
01:32:49 ◼ ► stuff were thinking about switching, they're like, well, you know, when when they come out with the
01:32:53 ◼ ► hardware keyboard, you know, so someone like me who needs to type can type, you know, there's this
01:32:57 ◼ ► assumption that anybody who is getting by on a no physical keyboard iPhone doesn't really type on
01:33:03 ◼ ► it. Whereas the truth is there are people who type lots of stuff on them. They don't type the
01:33:08 ◼ ► traditional method, but they still, and it's not just young people too, you know, oh, Malik types,
01:33:12 ◼ ► a lot of his blog posts on his phone on his iPhone. It does he, you know, I've seen him do it. He,
01:33:26 ◼ ► Well, with this computer, the retina screen to me was the big win because I really need a retina
01:33:33 ◼ ► screen. I cannot use a computer without a retina. I've always wanted a slim notebook. In fact,
01:33:40 ◼ ► somebody once loaned me an 11-inch and I tried it for a while and it just the screen I couldn't look
01:33:44 ◼ ► at it. It just bugged me every time I looked at it and this is great. But the really crazy thing
01:33:49 ◼ ► about this computer is I have this external iPhone charger. You know, it's one I got off Amazon. I
01:33:56 ◼ ► think it's, you know, it's a medium-sized charger and I got thinking, I wonder what would happen
01:34:02 ◼ ► because the power is going through the USB. What would happen if I plug the battery into the laptop?
01:34:08 ◼ ► Would the laptop recharge the battery or would the battery recharge the laptop? You know, so I
01:34:15 ◼ ► bought off Amazon a USB-C mail to USB, the old USB standard, whatever it is, A or B cable.
01:34:25 ◼ ► And I just plugged in the battery to the laptop and it charged the laptop, which is awesome.
01:34:34 ◼ ► Yeah, it's a, yeah, I have to pull it out, but I mean, it's, I think I paid like 30 bucks for it.
01:34:40 ◼ ► It's like, I'm not even going to try and say what the electronic rating is. I'll look it up in a
01:34:45 ◼ ► minute and tell you. But it's just something that you're supposed to buy to charge your iPad and
01:34:49 ◼ ► your iPhone. You plug it in and it charges up and it's got, I think, two USB ports on it,
01:34:56 ◼ ► female USB ports, and you plug it in and you plug it into your phone. But the thing charges up the
01:35:01 ◼ ► laptop and if the laptop's running, it basically treads water. It doesn't lose power and the
01:35:37 ◼ ► laptop. So so now I really feel like I can go anywhere because I've got this little battery
01:35:41 ◼ ► and a USB cord and this little light laptop and I can go anywhere in the world and just
01:35:47 ◼ ► I feel like as time goes on, Apple and Apple's prowess at designing at working with metals
01:35:56 ◼ ► and miniaturizing components grows more and more. You have to see their stuff in person
01:36:09 ◼ ► tons of commercials. They have a website that they've had up since September with hundreds
01:36:15 ◼ ► of super high quality photos of the watches, every watch, every band from every conceivable
01:36:20 ◼ ► angle. And I can't tell you how many times I've gotten email from readers and listeners
01:36:32 ◼ ► As soon as they saw it but only when they saw it in person and I feel like yeah difference between the MacBook Airs
01:36:50 ◼ ► I like the idea of a minimal MacBook. I was sort of like maybe I should have I just bought a new 13-inch MacBook Pro
01:37:03 ◼ ► Maybe I should have waited a little longer because that does seem like something, you know
01:37:06 ◼ ► If I have the retina 5k Mac iMac at my desk and I'm only using the MacBook away from it
01:37:11 ◼ ► That seems like great and then I saw it in the store and it was just like it was just like an emotional thing
01:37:22 ◼ ► Just because I like the idea of the smallest possible notebook that you can with a full-time with a full-size keyboard
01:37:29 ◼ ► You just can't the thing that blew me away was how much it looked more like an iPad with a keyboard than a MacBook
01:37:41 ◼ ► You know still is you know gives you a lot of automation stuff that you just really can't do realistically with an iPad
01:37:48 ◼ ► It's it's great. I love it and I'm very happy with it except I would not sell the keyboard
01:38:03 ◼ ► You're just draining yourself because there's just not that much travel. So you're like over pressing
01:38:07 ◼ ► But then you start pressing lighter because you don't want to over press and you actually miss keys
01:38:12 ◼ ► You don't you don't get the full, you know throw of the key and there's like a sweet spot in the middle
01:38:23 ◼ ► I've always appreciated that Apple does their best and really does like I remember a couple years
01:38:30 ◼ ► But at one point they were he was introducing one of the new some new macbook and said something about their keyboard engineers
01:38:36 ◼ ► And he said yes, by the way, we really do have some engineers who all they do his work on keyboards
01:38:41 ◼ ► I appreciate that I can it shows and it's totally not surprising to me that there are some smart guys and
01:38:49 ◼ ► women and Apple who've just dedicated they're just dedicated to making kick-ass keyboards or
01:38:56 ◼ ► Kickest-assest keyboard they can given the size constraints of something like the new MacBook
01:39:03 ◼ ► I think I could get used to I know that I probably wouldn't like it quite as much as the MacBook Pro which has more
01:39:07 ◼ ► Throw but I like my old 11 that I used for years had less throw than the 13 inch MacBook Pro keyboard
01:39:15 ◼ ► And you know, I got used to it and none of it because nothing compares to a nice desktop keyboard in my opinion
01:39:23 ◼ ► And when it's this light you really can take it anywhere with you and that is something special that that charger by the way
01:39:43 ◼ ► 800 milliamp. All right, I'll look it up and try to put it in the show notes. Yeah, but just the fact that
01:40:04 ◼ ► 2011 MacBook Air which may be accurate at least the I got the upgraded one. I didn't get the entry
01:40:12 ◼ ► but I don't think those articles are really fair to it in terms of like memory access and the SSD speed because it works fine.
01:40:20 ◼ ► I'm not using it to do Final Cut or iBooks author. I'm using it for things like, you know, OmniFocus and and word processing and email and Safari and stuff.
01:40:43 ◼ ► before you see it, it's like, I feel like once you see them in person, any kind of debate
01:40:56 ◼ ► I'll just get the MacBook Air because I want more, I want a couple of USB ports or I want
01:41:01 ◼ ► or I want the extra performance, you know, the way that the 13-inch MacBook Pro or MacBook Air is still faster than this new MacBook.
01:41:12 ◼ ► And to me, the MacBook Airs look suddenly look so dated in the Apple Store, like the non-retina screen.
01:41:19 ◼ ► And it's funny because I've been depressed about the fact, like the vision problems that I have.
01:41:26 ◼ ► retina and I've always known it was coming that we'd get these displays that have like print quality resolution and it's like that's when I
01:41:33 ◼ ► Turned, you know hit the 40s and my vision starts to go and then I have this thing with my left eye and so good
01:41:39 ◼ ► It's like the retina screens actually help, you know, like the fact that my vision isn't so good
01:41:43 ◼ ► It's not that I can't appreciate it the way I would if everything had gone retina like in my 30s or let alone my 20s
01:41:50 ◼ ► God, I would have been amazing when my eyes were fantastic and I could see everything super super tiny
01:41:59 ◼ ► You know looking at a non-retina screen. It's it just looks it. It's gross in my opinion
01:42:13 ◼ ► You know it's just I mean just like when the MacBook Air came out the MacBook at the time eventually went away
01:42:21 ◼ ► eventually the new MacBook is going to become the standard machine and then the MacBook Air is going
01:42:26 ◼ ► to become I think I think the formula is very simple and I think a lot of people have over
01:42:31 ◼ ► thought this I think it's simply the fact that the entry level price once it goes down it really
01:42:38 ◼ ► can't go back up and the entry level price for a Mac laptop has dropped to $899 and that was a
01:42:58 ◼ ► And part of the reason is that Apple just doesn't compete low-end. But I think it's so that when
01:43:05 ◼ ► they make a transition like this, they don't have as far to go to catch up. And I feel like the
01:43:38 ◼ ► they couldn't just say all right you know you used to be able to buy a macbook air for 8.99 but now
01:43:43 ◼ ► it starts at 11.99 and even just the way they named it tells you that's exactly in fact it's
01:43:49 ◼ ► almost like the biggest telegraph strategically you know of their future strategy um that i can
01:43:57 ◼ ► ever think of from a name or in fact though the entry price is 12.99 so it's even higher so it's
01:44:02 ◼ ► it's got a ways to go i could even see them doing it maybe maybe if they could get it to 9.99
01:44:24 ◼ ► Only key and and only keep one model of the 11 inch around which is the 899 one if they could you know
01:44:35 ◼ ► They're there and they have usually they have no sympathy for the people who need to USB ports or whatever
01:44:46 ◼ ► But then I look at they're still selling MacBook pros with spinning discs in them. So I'm kind of surprised
01:44:51 ◼ ► Those are still on the market. Yeah, it's funny what they're willing to keep around at the entry level
01:44:54 ◼ ► I'm not sure what the market at this point is for the the spinning disc MacBook MacBook Pro
01:45:11 ◼ ► Or do they have a 15 inch - yeah, there is no 15 inch with a spinning display or spinning disk
01:45:18 ◼ ► But my guess with the education if they're gonna buy a Mac would be at the 11 or the 13 inch MacBook Air entry
01:45:24 ◼ ► Yeah, I just don't see what the appeal is of that 13 inch entry-level MacBook Pro. It cost 1099. I
01:45:30 ◼ ► I just don't see what the appeal is of carrying all that extra weight around for something.
01:45:38 ◼ ► Some people, I'd say probably mainly non-geek people, are very concerned about the loss of the
01:45:46 ◼ ► optical drive. They're like, "I want to watch my DVDs on the airplane," or whatever, and they'll
01:45:51 ◼ ► buy whatever Mac lets them do that. I guess that's it? I don't know. That seems crazy to me, though.
01:46:03 ◼ ► Yeah. Because I don't know, spinning disks, it just seems, you know, the only reason that you
01:46:09 ◼ ► have a spinning disk is to, you know, rip your stuff to digital format. Yeah. SSD transition,
01:46:24 ◼ ► Yeah, right, we're with you. And then just a few years ago, when we went to SSD, it felt to me like
01:47:04 ◼ ► to be religious about, it's having good backup policies in place. Duplication, triplication.
01:47:12 ◼ ► But let's face it, a lot of people don't. And if there's anything that's going to fail,
01:47:16 ◼ ► it's a spinning hard drive. And it's the worst thing to fail because it's the thing that
01:47:22 ◼ ► I imagine myself like as this like gray haired old geek talking to some young geek and explain,
01:47:28 ◼ ► yeah, it was spinning 7200 revolutions per minute. And it had a little needle that would touch it.
01:47:35 ◼ ► And if it didn't touch in the right place, all of your data was lost. I mean, they're just going to
01:47:40 ◼ ► look at us like, you know, we're driving model. It's a marvel that they work as well as they do.
01:47:45 ◼ ► Truly is a mechanically it's a mechanically a marvel that it works as well as it does. But
01:47:51 ◼ ► you know, if you think, "Wow, that seems like something that might fail frequently." Well,
01:47:56 ◼ ► you're exactly right. Yeah, I totally think that. Now, more I'm staring at this 13-inch MacBook Pro,
01:48:05 ◼ ► I wonder if that's a difference between new Apple and old Apple. I wonder if they're more willing
01:48:11 ◼ ► to keep stuff a little bit longer. Yeah, it's not, you know, the MacBook Pro line isn't too
01:48:15 ◼ ► complicated, but it just sticks out a little bit, and I'm not quite sure what the market is for that.
01:48:20 ◼ ► have you tried just switching gears have you tried the photos app have you tried this whole thing
01:48:27 ◼ ► now you know what that's a great thing let's close out the show talking about photos but before we do
01:48:32 ◼ ► i have i have to thank our last sponsor um and it is our good friend uh our good friends at fracture
01:48:40 ◼ ► you guys know fracture they are one of the biggest supporters of this show uh i love them to death
01:49:01 ◼ ► They've got some kind of proprietary apparatus that they take your digital photos, print
01:49:06 ◼ ► them directly on the surface of glass, right there on the glass, and then they ship them
01:49:26 ◼ ► to do something like hang it on a wall, prop it up on your desk, put it on your mantle,
01:50:24 ◼ ► and let's face it, we're just talking about Instagram. A lot of us are framing our pictures
01:50:34 ◼ ► really great for Instagram type pictures or pictures you've framed, you know, as a square.
01:50:40 ◼ ► Cannot say enough about the quality of their stuff and how fun it is to get it and to actually
01:50:54 ◼ ► just a no brainer that we don't have to think about it. You really don't. It's like the
01:50:57 ◼ ► greatest. It sounds lazy, but I'm telling you, it's the greatest because your relatives love
01:51:02 ◼ ► getting pictures of family members. It seems really personal. It's the easiest thing in the
01:51:13 ◼ ► the talk show listeners. You go to their website, fractureme.com. fractureme.com. Use the code
01:51:22 ◼ ► daring fireball, all one word, daring fireball, and you'll save 15% off any order. And the prices
01:51:29 ◼ ► are great already, but you can save more just by being a listener of the show. You guys are
01:51:34 ◼ ► ordering these things like crazy. I can't appreciate it enough. That's why Fracture keeps coming back to
01:51:38 ◼ ► sponsor the show again. Keep it up, but I cannot say highly enough how much I personally endorse
01:51:44 ◼ ► their product. It's just terrific. So my thanks to them. I heard Mark Arment talking about how
01:51:51 ◼ ► he had his apps done in Fracture. And so I had all my books done because I've written several books,
01:51:57 ◼ ► and I had them done with fracture prints, but because I'm a narcissist, I hung them downstairs
01:52:01 ◼ ► in my family room. So when everybody comes from my house, they see this wall of book covers, and
01:52:11 ◼ ► Yeah, maybe I shouldn't emphasize photos, but it really does work well with images of any kind. I
01:52:16 ◼ ► know I've been in Marco's office and I've seen his apps and they look great. They really do.
01:52:29 ◼ ► assets for it take up more space than would have fit on a high density floppy disk. Like,
01:52:59 ◼ ► great episode. You and Katie go really long on the new photos for Mac and the whole iCloud
01:53:06 ◼ ► photo syncing thing. So we don't have to repeat it here. It's a great, if anybody out there who
01:53:11 ◼ ► hasn't listened to Mac Power Users, great episode, really great introduction to the show. And if
01:53:15 ◼ ► if you're interested in the details. But long story short, I think all of us were kind of skeptical.
01:53:31 ◼ ► And they released this Photos app, and they've got the iCloud Photo storage. And granted,
01:53:37 ◼ ► you have to pay for it, assuming you have a decent number of photos. And I knew the new Photos app
01:53:43 ◼ ► would handle libraries better than iPhoto did. I mean, I always had the impression for the last
01:53:47 ◼ ► year or two that they had moved their engineering resources to something new and photo iPhoto was
01:53:52 ◼ ► kind of lingering, but whatever the new thing was going to be, it was going to display your photos
01:53:56 ◼ ► just fine on your Mac. But the big question mark to me was, will this iCloud photo thing work? And
01:54:02 ◼ ► when I make a photo on my phone, will it show up on my Mac and iPad? No problem. And will all this
01:54:15 ◼ ► Yeah. And nobody's talking about it really. I mean, I mean, we've talked, we did a show on it.
01:54:20 ◼ ► We've got a lot of people listening to our show. I've done this field guide on it. And I've only
01:54:25 ◼ ► had like a couple people complaining about performance or cloud sync. I mean, there are
01:54:30 ◼ ► a lot of people hitting this thing hard with like 30,000 photo libraries. And it's working.
01:54:45 ◼ ► I think so many people had burned out on iPhoto and had run up to the performance limits.
01:54:52 ◼ ► Bottom line, I don't know where the line is. And I guess it probably depends a little, maybe even on
01:54:58 ◼ ► the size of the photos, like what kind of camera you're using to take the photos you're putting
01:55:01 ◼ ► in there, but at a certain reasonable level of photos. Not like, "Oh, wow, that's abnormal."
01:55:07 ◼ ► And it's probably just combined with the fact of how long digital cameras have been a thing,
01:55:13 ◼ ► right? So iPhoto comes out in the early 2000s with iLife and the digital hub strategy of Apple,
01:55:21 ◼ ► and everybody's only got hundreds of photos, or a thousand, or two thousand. And now we're in the
01:55:27 ◼ ► 2010s and everybody everybody might have 10,000 photos and iPhoto wasn't dealing with that well
01:55:34 ◼ ► and you know it's scrolling problems performance problems it just and everybody would you know
01:55:39 ◼ ► there was a vibrant third-party market for little utilities that would help you split up your
01:55:46 ◼ ► iPhoto library you know and switch between different libraries because um you know just
01:55:53 ◼ ► keeping all your photos in one big library wasn't working technically. But the whole idea,
01:55:58 ◼ ► and so that's a great workaround, but the whole idea of having to manage all these libraries
01:56:02 ◼ ► defeated the whole purpose of iPhoto in the first place, which is supposed to be that, you know,
01:56:06 ◼ ► hey, you're not supposed to just throw out, here's a place where you throw all your photos.
01:56:10 ◼ ► And that's what photos, the new photos promised. And I think people were skeptical about that.
01:56:16 ◼ ► But I think the truth is that, you know, quietly in the midst of all this hubbub about the watch,
01:56:26 ◼ ► Yeah, and it works. I mean, I just, because I was running it in the beta and I was thinking, well,
01:56:36 ◼ ► But when it released, my wife's library is even bigger than mine and it uploaded fine and it's,
01:56:41 ◼ ► you know, it just works. So I'm really happy to see that, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of
01:56:47 ◼ ► smart people at Apple that knew that they had this reputation and this was something they needed to
01:56:51 ◼ ► deliver on. But it really does. So I got excited about it and we did a whole show on it. And
01:56:59 ◼ ► I mean the reason, the weird thing is I was going to write a book about, I was going to write a book
01:57:04 ◼ ► called "Photo Management" for Mac and iOS. And I had a whole, I have an OmniOutliner, it's full of
01:57:10 ◼ ► ideas and Dropbox and all these third-party services and it's a great, would have been a
01:57:15 ◼ ► great book. But then I started using photos, I'm like, heck with this, there's no book here. I mean,
01:57:29 ◼ ► I do think that there is, you know, if there's a complaint to be had, it's that Apple's public
01:57:36 ◼ ► statement is, I'm paraphrasing, but that they're no longer developing Aperture or iPhoto in favor
01:57:56 ◼ ► it's certainly better at handling a large number of photos without question. I don't see how anybody
01:58:07 ◼ ► Way better than handling a large number of photos than iPhoto ever was. I think subjectively,
01:58:24 ◼ ► like changing the amount of light in an image, just turning up exposure doesn't do exactly that.
01:58:31 ◼ ► It screws up other things. Whereas in this case, if you turn up to make an image to add more light,
01:58:37 ◼ ► it turns down shadows, it does a whole bunch of stuff at once to make it better. So they're
01:58:42 ◼ ► bringing like having more professional editing abilities and that you don't get with iPhoto.
01:58:51 ◼ ► aperture, you could locally, you know, increase the light in one section of the picture or not.
01:58:56 ◼ ► And you can't do that anymore. But I think, you know, if you're a pro user, then and you
01:59:01 ◼ ► really loved aperture, you're probably not going to be happy. No. And, you know, I know that there's
01:59:06 ◼ ► a lot of them out there. I know that or even if you're, you know, semi pro prosumer, whatever you
01:59:10 ◼ ► you want to call it. I know that there's a lot of people out there who honestly evaluated
01:59:16 ◼ ► both Lightroom and Aperture and preferred Aperture. And I'm a long time Lightroom user,
01:59:22 ◼ ► but not like in a pro sense, just like a total pro, very much on the sumer side of prosumer.
01:59:32 ◼ ► And to me, it's not like an Adobe UI. It's like just a unique UI that I thought was very
01:59:36 ◼ ► really like it but I totally can see why I even as a non-professional photographer I can see the differences in aperture and Lightroom and I can see why people preferred aperture and those people are kind of left with the short end of the stick here because photos doesn't do enough for them and they already had decided that they didn't like Lightroom as much as aperture
02:01:25 ◼ ► whatever. So go back to 2009, go down to about where August is, you probably see a lot of blue
02:01:31 ◼ ► because you're, you know, in the ocean, and just start zooming in there, and you're going to find
02:01:35 ◼ ► that photo. Yeah, I was surprised how well it worked on the Mac, because it seemed like a great
02:01:40 ◼ ► interface for an iPad or an iPhone. And I think, well, I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do
02:01:44 ◼ ► on a Mac. But when I started playing with it, you know, really, it is pretty nice, you can just
02:01:49 ◼ ► scroll, you can see the year, you know, a year is maybe a two or three inch block of very, you know,
02:01:54 ◼ ► small thumbnails. And so you can go back years very easily. And having been in iPhoto with the
02:02:01 ◼ ► crazy lag time for so long, it feels like jumping into a sports car. I do think too that it plays
02:02:09 ◼ ► into something that I've been saying for a while now that Apple, and I know people sometimes over
02:02:14 ◼ ► use the word quietly, like the Apple quietly blank. But I do think that they've sort of quietly become
02:03:18 ◼ ► need to connect it by USB or pop the card out and put it in your computer and import them.
02:03:25 ◼ ► But the idea that you need to do anything more than that to have them everywhere is just a
02:03:34 ◼ ► Yeah, I cannot get over how little has been made of this, but it just seems to me like this is a
02:03:43 ◼ ► really good sign that you know apple can figure out the cloud and they can do big data this way
02:03:49 ◼ ► i think part of it is that institutionally i think it is truly an important thing to them i really do
02:03:53 ◼ ► and i think it's one of those things where there's a lot of people that apple all the way up to the
02:03:57 ◼ ► highest levels um who are you know pretty serious about their photography i mean phil schiller is
02:04:02 ◼ ► definitely serious about photography i mean i know that for a fact like as a hobby you know it's
02:04:07 ◼ ► you know he lists it like tour it's like he's got like two or three things in his twitter bio it's
02:04:15 ◼ ► It's interesting about the iPhone as a camera though, you know, when you first had pictures on
02:04:22 ◼ ► the iPhone, definitely a point and shoot was a better camera. And now that's not the case anymore.
02:04:40 ◼ ► and I bought that 20 millimeter pancake lens with it and it's a 1.7 I believe and that's all I ever
02:04:47 ◼ ► use I just use that pancake lens it's great but the um I'm getting to the point where I um that
02:04:53 ◼ ► I don't even use that that 20 on that though is in 35 millimeter equivalence is probably
02:04:58 ◼ ► like a like 40 okay yeah yeah yeah it's pretty tight but the um but you know just the 1.7 is
02:05:07 ◼ ► great you know you get a nice blurry background the 50 though is the classic lens though like if
02:05:11 ◼ ► you know like the old school advice on how do you learn to be a photographer is you get a 50
02:05:19 ◼ ► yeah i had i called it the nifty 50 i had on my old can't yeah can't 80 by 80 bucks great market
02:05:26 ◼ ► yeah it's like 90 dollars a 90 dollar lens new from canon and you could get the japanese version
02:05:36 ◼ ► I got the, a friend of mine had the 1.4. It was $300, but he sold to me used. I got it cheap.
02:05:42 ◼ ► And I'm in Orange County, Canon's national repair facility is in Irvine. And like, it's like 80
02:05:51 ◼ ► bucks and they'll fix the lens. And I had like that, the lens broke like two or three times,
02:05:55 ◼ ► because every time I let somebody else use the camera, they would start cranking it like it was
02:05:58 ◼ ► a zoom and just do something to it but the um but now i got tired of carrying the big one so i got
02:06:05 ◼ ► the olympus and now i'm getting at the point where i almost use the phone exclusively it's not because
02:06:10 ◼ ► i mean the pictures are close enough for most things and having the geo data and everything
02:06:16 ◼ ► there and having it already in my library the moment i take it to me are becoming so convenient
02:06:20 ◼ ► that it's it's taking over the thing for me is that it's um my my my photos have always been
02:06:27 ◼ ► or at least in the iPhone world, post-iPhone world, I've always had two collections of photos.
02:06:34 ◼ ► The photos that I took with my regular cameras, which used to be an iPhoto years ago, for the last,
02:06:39 ◼ ► I don't know, 10 years have been in Lightroom, and then my iPhone photos, which have been on my
02:06:44 ◼ ► iPhone. And I never bothered to put my iPhone photos into Lightroom because it just didn't seem
02:06:54 ◼ ► worthwhile and I didn't want to take them off. I wanted to keep them on the phone. And now in the
02:06:58 ◼ ► new world, it goes both ways. I not only have my iPhone photos on my Mac, but I have any photos
02:07:04 ◼ ► that I took, you know, that I take with a regular camera just magically show up on my iPhone.
02:07:11 ◼ ► Yeah. And I don't—I feel like we're not, you know—and again, it's just the way human beings
02:07:16 ◼ ► are. We're way more likely to spend time complaining about what isn't right than we are praising what
02:07:47 ◼ ► taking screenshots with my watch and you take a screenshot with your watch and then it shows up
02:07:51 ◼ ► on your phone, you know, almost instantly, at least in most cases by the time I unlock the phone,
02:07:57 ◼ ► it's already there. And when I want to send it to somebody but I'm on my Mac, I usually take
02:08:02 ◼ ► the screenshots on my phone and like airplane them to myself to the Mac and then put it into
02:08:07 ◼ ► chatter or email or whatever. And then like a week ago, I was like, "Hey, maybe they just show,
02:08:11 ◼ ► I guess they're supposed to show up in the Photos app." And if you leave the Photos app running,
02:08:16 ◼ ► they just show up. It's so great. Well, it's like when I was doing my wife's 36,000 photo upload,
02:08:30 ◼ ► so I was testing it and I'm literally like making corrections on my iPad. And I've got my MacBook Pro
02:08:38 ◼ ► open there while I'm doing the corrections and they show up almost immediately as soon as I
02:08:43 ◼ ► finish the correction. And it's like that's another thing that to me is super useful now,
02:08:48 ◼ ► because I can use my iPad and sit in front of the TV and like everybody, when I go to a family event,
02:08:53 ◼ ► I shoot like 200 pictures, of which really 20 are the ones I should keep. But I never have time to
02:08:59 ◼ ► go through and sort that out. So I ended up keeping all these pictures. And now I'm going
02:09:02 ◼ ► back to these old events. And just like with the iPad, it's very easy to see them and pick the ones
02:09:07 ◼ ► you want to keep and the ones you want to delete and even make cropping adjustments and little
02:09:10 ◼ ► things like that with your finger. I mean, it's the whole process now is easier. And I don't know,
02:09:16 ◼ ► I'm just really happy to see it. I was worried if I had one worry about Apple over the last few years,
02:09:22 ◼ ► it seemed like they had this hole with cloud services. And obviously everything's heading
02:09:27 ◼ ► that direction in a lot of ways. And it seemed like they, I don't know, you know, there's a
02:09:32 ◼ ► perception of institutional arrogance or that they feel like, well, we're making so much money with
02:09:36 ◼ ► this other stuff. We don't have to worry about that. I was worried that one day they were going
02:10:02 ◼ ► I'll keep, I'm not going to like delete the Lightroom library, but I want to export everything
02:11:31 ◼ ► on at least one of your Macs, you should definitely have it so that your whole library is there. Just
02:11:37 ◼ ► it in the name of duplication. So that, yeah, as much as I like it, I don't want to give Apple
02:11:43 ◼ ► everything in the cloud and just say it's safe. Right. Because why not have it both places just
02:11:47 ◼ ► in case the server, you know, that something happens on the iCloud photo storage and your
02:11:51 ◼ ► photo library on in the iCloud gets corrupted. Well, you've still got your photos on your Mac,
02:11:57 ◼ ► and then you can re-upload just in case, right? Murphy's law. But what if you have two Macs and
02:12:02 ◼ ► you want both Macs to have your full collection? If you import raw on Mac A, does Mac B get the raw
02:12:08 ◼ ► image too? I don't know. I don't know. I haven't tested that. I know that Mac, if both Mac A and
02:12:16 ◼ ► Mac B are downloading all images, you're going to get, I believe, full-size images on both Macs.
02:12:25 ◼ ► That's a good question because like for edits you'd want the raw version wherever you're doing and I'm you know, and I'm wondering where the
02:12:46 ◼ ► While it's uploading to the cloud and I'm kind of suspecting that maybe it gets created on your Mac
02:12:57 ◼ ► Yeah, and when you think about the fact that you can crop the the downloaded version on your iPad
02:13:04 ◼ ► But it's still gonna crop the full version on your Mac. I mean there was some serious engineering work done to make all that happen
02:13:19 ◼ ► No, man, it's uh, it's all good. It's been it's been a pretty exciting couple months. I people don't like apples
02:13:25 ◼ ► I totally agree and it's you know, and and here we are heading right into WWDC which is you know
02:13:33 ◼ ► This is like the the peak and then you know, they'll they'll go silent for two months and then you know
02:13:38 ◼ ► Ramp back up in September again, but it's I'm going for the first time in my life. I'm going to WWDC
02:13:42 ◼ ► Wow, you've never been there before no, I've always gone to Mac world, but you know, like I'm a power user
02:13:47 ◼ ► I'm not a developer, but you know mac world's not around anymore. Now. My new employer has a very liberal policy
02:13:58 ◼ ► Was it for i'more? I forget because he now it's like it used to be you always knew where snell was writing
02:14:03 ◼ ► But now he's bouncing around but he you know that the wwc has taken over. It's the hub of the apple community world
02:14:14 ◼ ► You would have never thought you'd never recommend to someone who wasn't a developer that they go to wwc
02:14:19 ◼ ► I certainly still wouldn't recommend you try to get in the lottery and get a ticket if you're not going to actually take
02:14:26 ◼ ► But it's gonna be fun being up there. I have so many friends that are gonna be there i'm talking it
02:14:31 ◼ ► I'm, not sure if i'm supposed to say it or not. I think i'm gonna be talking to alt comp about stuff. So
02:14:43 ◼ ► talking at that one. It is bringyourlayers.com. But if you just type layers conference, I'm sure
02:14:53 ◼ ► it'll come up. But it's like the Tuesday and Wednesday of WWDC week. And it is literally
02:14:58 ◼ ► right around the corner. I mean, like whatever hotel anybody would pick for going to Moscone,
02:15:04 ◼ ► where the layers conferences is in the, it's, it sounds funny that it's in the mall, but it's like
02:15:10 ◼ ► that's a very strange mall up on Market Street. I went on the self-employed budget hotel. I'm at
02:15:16 ◼ ► the Mosser and I don't have my own bathroom. So I'm gonna be, I told my wife, I said, well,
02:15:24 ◼ ► all of my, you know, you know, sometimes I would prefer not to be around people, you know,
02:15:30 ◼ ► sometimes you're just not good at getting out. This'll solve that problem for me. Cause I'm not
02:15:34 ◼ ► going to want to be at my hotel at all. So there's, I'll be like in the lobby of your hotel.
02:15:43 ◼ ► there's like a guilt. Like, I feel like, you know, you've got to have some kind of work,
02:15:47 ◼ ► really. You can't just go on a boondoggle. You've got to have some kind of way to justify a trip
02:15:51 ◼ ► like this. But there's so many things. There's Alt-Conf, there's this new Layers conference,
02:15:55 ◼ ► which looks great, and it's—they call it a design conference for the Mac and iOS community.
02:16:04 ◼ ► it is a fantastic thing. It's a great deal. A tremendous lineup of speakers. But then you
02:16:08 ◼ ► can be there for the week and it really is it there's no zero doubt in my mind the wwdc is now
02:16:14 ◼ ► what macworld used to be which is the hub where you know people like me and you can get together
02:16:18 ◼ ► and we don't see each other very often i haven't seen you since macworld some number of years ago i
02:16:21 ◼ ► believe yeah yeah it was a couple years ago yeah and uh the difference though macworld gave normal
02:16:28 ◼ ► users a chance to go and just kind of see what's new i mean there was a need that we've lost with
02:16:32 ◼ ► Macworld and I don't know what if somebody ever is gonna try and fix that but you know it's still
02:16:39 ◼ ► not a complete replacement for Macworld but it's the best we got at this point yeah oh I guess I
02:16:44 ◼ ► should say because I know people are asking I've the last couple of years I've done a live version
02:16:49 ◼ ► of the talk show during WWDC and that is on again as well that will be on Tuesday night as it has
02:16:57 ◼ ► been the last few years nothing to announce yet in terms of tickets or anything but I think what
02:17:01 ◼ ► I'm going to do, and this is why I'm bringing it up on the show, is so that listeners of
02:17:14 ◼ ► I'll talk about it on the show before I announce it on Daring Fireball. And so if you want
02:17:19 ◼ ► to get a ticket, and it has sold, I have to admit it has sold out every year. So if you
02:17:25 ◼ ► want to get in, the best way to get in would be to wait for me to announce, not this show,
02:18:26 ◼ ► little toothbrush that flips out of the side. I stayed at the Mosser once years ago for Macworld.
02:18:31 ◼ ► They had me giving one of the very first sessions and one of the very last. And it was back when
02:18:37 ◼ ► Macworld went a whole week. So I ended up having these in seven days there. And I wanted to save
02:18:42 ◼ ► money, so I got one in. It's great because the sink is right next to the bed. You can literally just
02:18:47 ◼ ► sit up in bed and brush your teeth. Where is the Mosser? I know. It's next door to Moscone. I mean,
02:19:02 ◼ ► Oh, I have totally gone there on the cheap over the years. You know what? A lot of the cheaper
02:19:12 ◼ ► It's great. It's right there. You can just go back to your room and drop stuff off. It's nice.
02:19:28 ◼ ► You go out in the hallway and you you can lock yourself in there, right? I'm like, okay
02:19:37 ◼ ► Yeah, but that's like you said that that's good though, you know, you're not coming up there to uh to hang out in a hotel
02:19:41 ◼ ► um, I do think the only the downside wwc isn't that big compared to so many of the conferences there because it you know, the the
02:19:50 ◼ ► Moscone West has pretty significant limitations on attendance. Like they just can't make it bigger
02:20:02 ◼ ► yeah but nowhere near as big as like Oracle World or uh GDC even the game developer conference some
02:20:12 ◼ ► of those ones that take up Moscone South and West have and and the the hotel prices skyrocket there
02:20:19 ◼ ► was one year where the new iPad event, and I think it was while the iPads were still coming out in the
02:20:26 ◼ ► spring, coincided with one of those conferences. And I got the invitation, the press pass,
02:20:36 ◼ ► typical Apple came out like a week before the event, and I went to book. And then like,
02:20:42 ◼ ► all of the hotels were like $800 a night. I was like, "What the hell?" And it was because of this
02:20:49 ◼ ► mega conference. So, WWC week isn't like that, but the overall boom in San Francisco and the
02:20:56 ◼ ► way the economy is just on fire there has really driven up hotel prices. That's like the biggest,
02:21:02 ◼ ► that's the biggest downside to having this thing in San Francisco is that it, you know,
02:21:07 ◼ ► for people who are on a tighter budget, it kind of stinks. It's going to be fun though.
02:21:12 ◼ ► a couple years ago, like around 2008-2009, because of the economic, you know, shit show of the world,
02:21:21 ◼ ► which kind of helped because it was like when Daring Fireball was still really flying low to
02:21:24 ◼ ► the ground economically, I used to be able to get like a four, four and a half star hotel for like
02:21:29 ◼ ► $175. Like there were a couple years for WWDC where there's a gang of us who were staying at
02:21:35 ◼ ► the Intercontinental, which is literally right next door. I mean, it's like physically connected
02:21:39 ◼ ► to Moscow, any West. It's great. And we got, we got deals on hot wire for like $175 and it's
02:21:49 ◼ ► fantastic for someone, you know, who's really, really did not have the budget for six nights in
02:21:55 ◼ ► San Francisco. Yeah. Anyway, I will see you there. Thank you for being here. Let's get some plugs in.
02:21:59 ◼ ► Man, do you have stuff to plug? Yeah, I guess the big plug for me is just max barkey.com. That's
02:22:05 ◼ ► where all the stuff is max barkey.com your new photos for mac field guide is there you can just
02:22:11 ◼ ► go to max barkey.com and there's a big link to it in the sidebar but it's just max barkey.com
02:22:15 ◼ ► slash photos this is a two and a half hour screencast tutorial guide like mega guy like a
02:22:24 ◼ ► book in screencast form yeah i mean like i was gonna do a book but this one it since it's just
02:22:30 ◼ ► one app and make more sense just to look over my shoulder yeah and learn it as we're kind of weird
02:22:34 ◼ ► making it because there's some of my you know I use my family library because you need where
02:22:38 ◼ ► am I going to do it where I have 30,000 photos that I can use as an example so uh but it's great
02:22:44 ◼ ► and I thought I just went soup to nuts and at the end it ended up being two and a half hours which
02:22:48 ◼ ► was probably longer than I would have liked it to be but it cover everything so there you have it
02:22:53 ◼ ► it costs 10 bucks yeah now I on your show you tracked your hours that you put into this this
02:24:57 ◼ ► And then I found Markdown and it like made it possible for me to do a lot of the formatting myself.
02:25:02 ◼ ► So I'm not the person you were thinking of when you gave birth to this, but I still use it all the time.
02:25:14 ◼ ► I mean, you could figure it out, but sometimes people want kind of a more, you know, a walkthrough.
02:25:18 ◼ ► So Eddie and I did this book and we did, we screencast it the whole thing, you know, how do you make emphasis that are in, how do you, and we picked some of our favorite apps that use Markdown and showed how you would.
02:26:02 ◼ ► I will tell you right now, yes, I will do an interview for the next version of the Markdown
02:26:07 ◼ ► It's criminal that I blew you off the last time. I didn't say no, but I never actually made myself
02:26:16 ◼ ► Well, yeah. Busy, lazy, you know. But anyway, it's criminal that I didn't, because it's really
02:26:21 ◼ ► an honor. It's the type of thing—it's just the type of little thing that you just—I never expected
02:26:25 ◼ ► I get like long story short I made markdown and I thought I should give this to the world
02:26:32 ◼ ► maybe everybody should use this and then I put it out there and and and it didn't really take off that quickly it was very
02:26:42 ◼ ► People were still using like my and again, I totally understand why but like it was like the little tiny bit of
02:26:47 ◼ ► Timing that was weird was I put markdown out there and like the next week was when base camp debuted
02:26:54 ◼ ► you know, now they're just Basecamp company, but you know, the former 37signals. And I know Jason
02:27:01 ◼ ► very well. I know David, you know, everybody. I don't know anybody there. I used to know
02:27:07 ◼ ► everybody at 37signals. And all the comments and messaging in Basecamp was done using Textile,
02:27:14 ◼ ► Dean Allen's thing, which is sort of a same type of thing as Markdown, but different syntax.
02:27:25 ◼ ► And I totally know, like within one week, it's not like they were going to use markdown instead
02:27:29 ◼ ► of textile. I mean, obviously Basecamp was in development for, you know, I mean, you can,
02:27:33 ◼ ► you can make apps with rails pretty quickly, but not in a week. But I just thought, damn,
02:27:37 ◼ ► I wish I'd come out with this sooner because I'll bet they would have used markdown instead of
02:27:40 ◼ ► textile. And then it just didn't go anywhere. I don't know. And people, some people would,
02:27:43 ◼ ► you know, use it. But then like, it was like the slowest, surest, like uptake, like this slow,
02:27:49 ◼ ► steady thing and then all of a sudden it's this thing and everything has markdown built into it
02:27:54 ◼ ► and people are writing books about it and that to me is just crazy in my um in my experience the
02:28:01 ◼ ► reason markdown became so relevant to me i was using it to write blog posts from x sparky which
02:28:06 ◼ ► was great but what really made it a big deal to me was the fact that ios has never really supported
02:28:11 ◼ ► rich text very well and and even if it did i you know i don't want to use rich text on ios i just
02:28:18 ◼ ► want things to be fast and to sync quickly, you know, this is before photos and Apple proving its
02:28:23 ◼ ► bones. And so, you know, having plain text that you can format and then open on iOS devices,
02:28:30 ◼ ► I mean, markdown was so it was like a solution made for a problem that didn't exist yet.
02:28:35 ◼ ► I would disagree that the Mac OS doesn't have good support for rich text. I think it had great
02:28:40 ◼ ► support for rich text. The problem is there's never been a rich text format that has been
02:29:12 ◼ ► that's the problem is iOS, you're stuck. And if you want to write on your iPad and on your Mac,
02:29:18 ◼ ► you need a solution. And Markdown really just does that nicely. And every it seems like every
02:29:24 ◼ ► writing app. I remember when that was like a feature selling point of a new app that it
02:29:29 ◼ ► supports Markdown. And now it's like, everybody just supports Markdown. It's just in it.
02:29:34 ◼ ► Trenton Larkin I've talked to my friend Brent Simmons about it, because I know Brent was on
02:29:38 ◼ ► my side, but it's a little bit unrelated to Markdown. But around that time, the late 90s
02:29:44 ◼ ► and the 2000s, there still was a living war over styled text versus plain text for email.
02:29:53 ◼ ► Like, should you be sending styled text email where you can hit command I and the word is
02:29:57 ◼ ► actually italicized, or should you be sending plain text email? And I was staunchly on the
02:30:02 ◼ ► side of the plain text that this was a protocol that was designed in the terminal era, and
02:30:07 ◼ ► everything should be plain text, and that way everybody will be able to read, you know,
02:30:12 ◼ ► it'll look right anywhere. And clearly the plain text side lost the war for email, and nobody even,
02:30:19 ◼ ► really, it's not even something people argue about anymore. But it was really more of a case where
02:30:23 ◼ ► we lost the battle, email was just a battle, but long-term plain text has won overall. I mean,
02:30:31 ◼ ► all sorts of new things are all just plain text. Facebook is sort of a plain text platform,
02:30:49 ◼ ► and that's just to me a reminder that, you know, the stuff I spend writing, I want to be able to
02:30:55 ◼ ► access forever. And I mean, that's another reason why Markdown is a good, and plain text.
02:31:00 ◼ ► I think people got thrown off because in the the whole early era of PCs we kept getting more powerful
02:31:16 ◼ ► Cross-platform and cetera etcetera and so we could keep making things fancier and fancier in terms of wizzy wig text styling
02:31:22 ◼ ► And I love to design stuff but in terms of what the canonical storage format for this stuff should be
02:31:28 ◼ ► I always thought it should always be plain text because that way anything and everything that you do in the future will be able to read it and I feel like the way people have caught on to that now where things like Twitter which was originally designed as like an SMS platform and then turned into a web thing and now turned into a mobile thing and now people are getting them on our watches and stuff if everything is just plain text every time there's one of these new things that comes up it's all it has to do is render text.
02:31:52 ◼ ► I'm just, in some ways I'm glad I can't access those old things because I remember I had a fascination with the original San Francisco font.
02:32:10 ◼ ► God, I think that would be such a great Easter egg if like the Apple Watch on, I mean, not great, Apple would never do this, but
02:32:16 ◼ ► but if like April 1st if your Apple watch displayed everything in the old San Francisco
02:32:23 ◼ ► font about it would be so awesome all right anything else you want to plug David I'm great