The Talk Show

118: ‘Sloppy on the Side’ With Guest Adam Lisagor


00:00:00   [music]

00:00:22   Oh boy, I'm way into this.

00:00:24   You have no idea how long I've been, how I've been looking forward to this.

00:00:29   that weird? Should I not? Should I play it cool? No, I don't think it's weird at all. If anything,

00:00:34   I feel like one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you about, I mean I've been wanting to talk

00:00:37   to you about this ever since we were in Montreal last year and we both talked to each other into

00:00:41   being super excited about the watch. Is that I feel like too many other people are playing it

00:00:45   cool and they're trying to be credible. Reserving judgment. Yeah, and that's totally cool to,

00:00:55   you know, I think just being completely honest. There's, you know, a lot of things to complain

00:00:58   about too, but I feel like, I don't know, I feel like not being excited about it. What's the fun

00:01:03   in that? Oh no, this has got, I mean, you got to treat this like Christmas. When I was probably

00:01:10   seven years old, I got a transformer watch, a wristwatch that was a transformer for Hanukkah

00:01:17   and I cried. Tears of joy. Tears of joy, yeah, tears of transformer Hanukkah joy. And I think

00:01:25   that I there's no reason I shouldn't have the same reaction literally as opposed as opposed to

00:01:31   the kid across the street who got a go bot's watch and cried because it's because it was the go box

00:01:40   go box was like the original Samsung

00:01:52   So you reminded me that I used to be a watch guy.

00:01:57   I haven't, I haven't for so long.

00:02:00   But when I was a kid, my grandfather was an accountant

00:02:04   and one of his clients was I think a reseller

00:02:07   of Casio watches.

00:02:09   And so every, like once a year, he would hand me down

00:02:13   the latest, like the last year's version of a data bank

00:02:16   or whatever it was.

00:02:18   And that was just, I think that was like just,

00:02:22   early gadget fetish for me.

00:02:25   And like you said,

00:02:27   last, your last episode with Multsy,

00:02:32   you were talking about how inscrutable those interfaces were

00:02:35   and how you basically had to memorize like the equivalent

00:02:39   of a NES Contra code.

00:02:44   - Yeah.

00:02:44   - Just in order to like get to timer mode

00:02:47   or something like that.

00:02:48   - Yeah, it was like triple click the lower right button

00:02:50   to get into the mode where you can set the alarm.

00:02:53   - Yeah.

00:02:54   - Which looked exactly like the mode for setting the time,

00:02:57   except that there was a little tiny button,

00:02:59   like an A, that would flash.

00:03:00   That meant, hey, this is the alarm.

00:03:02   And then you would just have to know

00:03:04   that you were setting the time for your alarm

00:03:06   and not changing the time on your watch.

00:03:08   - Right.

00:03:09   But once you got there, it felt so good.

00:03:11   - Yeah.

00:03:12   One of the things, it's just a little thing,

00:03:14   and I know that it's,

00:03:18   I feel like the two main points of the big question marks

00:03:22   is should anybody be excited about Apple Watch in general

00:03:27   as just a thing they might wanna wear on their wrist?

00:03:30   And then there's this whole other angle

00:03:32   where I know that as time goes on, you say things,

00:03:34   and I keep seeing it on Twitter when people,

00:03:37   people like to complain on Twitter.

00:03:38   I don't know if you ever noticed that.

00:03:39   But then they'll say, you mean,

00:03:41   and they'll say, this is a really cool thing you can do.

00:03:43   This is a nice part of wearing the Apple Watch every day.

00:03:46   and then they say, you mean exactly like every other smartwatch on the market for the last

00:03:49   two years? And it's like, okay, yeah, you know, maybe they, you know, give some points

00:03:54   to some of these other guys for shipping first. I mean, but it doesn't take away that it's

00:03:58   a nice part of the experience on the wrist. And one of those things, one of those little

00:04:02   things is that you never have to set the time on the watch. It's like once you've paired

00:04:06   it with your phone, it always just gets the time.

00:04:09   Pete: Yeah, I mean, that's one of those things that's completely invisible. I've not once

00:04:15   thought about that fact except that's just the time you take it for granted because

00:04:19   clocks set themselves now that's what clocks do right and i was thinking about that with the

00:04:25   context of those old digital watches like i wrote about from my teenage years where i can't even

00:04:30   remember whether some of them and i i guess i just went through them every couple years because they

00:04:34   even back then they weren't that expensive by the 80s like in the 70s digital watches were really

00:04:39   expensive and by the 80s they were you know you get them for your eighth grade son without thinking

00:04:43   about it. But I think that I had some that you could set the month, even though it didn't show it

00:04:50   like on the face because it was like too much detail, but then at least that way when like

00:04:54   April 30th rolls around and it goes to May 1st, it doesn't tell you that it's the 31st.

00:04:59   I think. But it was like you had to—it just was another thing you had to set though. Like if the

00:05:05   battery—like when you did change the battery and had to start over from scratch, you had to set

00:05:08   so many different fields, the hour, the date, the time, the day of the week, you know, all this stuff.

00:05:13   But I think at that point in technology we didn't...

00:05:17   We didn't...

00:05:18   I don't...

00:05:19   I just...

00:05:20   I might be wrong about this.

00:05:22   We weren't thinking that far in advance to...

00:05:25   We wanted our gadgets to know how to do things themselves.

00:05:28   I don't think that that was an expectation.

00:05:30   It was almost like, "No, of course.

00:05:31   It's like a manual transmission.

00:05:33   You want that control.

00:05:34   You want to take out of the box, unfold the 18-fold mostly Japanese instructions."

00:05:42   And then figure out what is the code you need to get to to get to world time or something

00:05:53   like that.

00:05:54   And that's part of the thing.

00:05:55   Yeah, I mean, I'm not, yeah, I wasn't even complaining about it and I didn't complain

00:05:59   about it when I did it.

00:06:00   I thought it was a cool feature.

00:06:01   I was like, "Hey, this is great.

00:06:02   This way when a short month rolls around, I won't have to worry about it.

00:06:06   I'll go through the hassle now of setting everything so that I don't have to do it again."

00:06:10   Yeah, so are people asking you, I mean obviously people on this, people online obviously, but

00:06:17   people in the world, are they seeing your watch and saying, "Hey, what do you think

00:06:22   of that?"

00:06:23   Yeah, totally.

00:06:24   I'm about, I haven't kept exact count, but if I had to guess, I would guess that

00:06:31   I'm 23 out of 25 for when I use Apple Pay at Whole Foods.

00:06:36   And that's probably about right, because it's been a little bit over a month and

00:06:40   I go there just about every day.

00:06:42   I'd say about 23 out of 25 times, the cashier has commented on it, even though I'm definitely

00:06:48   trying to do it as subtly as possible.

00:06:49   Because I'm trying—it's like I'm playing a game where I'm trying not to be noticed

00:06:53   using the watch to Apple Pay, and yet they inevitably notice.

00:06:58   And out of the two times that they didn't, the one time it was a cashier who I'd had

00:07:03   before, and she just kind of gave me the, "Oh, you're the guy who already has the

00:07:06   Apple Watch."

00:07:07   And then there was one time where cashier didn't didn't make note of it. That was her and she batted her eyelashes and you moved on

00:07:13   She was clearly impressed

00:07:16   With your prowess

00:07:18   Technological prowess I used it. I used Apple pay this morning for the first time because I

00:07:23   You know

00:07:24   I've been preparing to be on on on your show and I wanted to do everything I could possibly do like exercise for instance

00:07:31   Just so I knew that, you know got the well-rounded experience this morning. I used Apple pay

00:07:37   with the watch and my go-to for Apple Pay because I never remember where it's

00:07:41   gonna be is I go to McDonald's. So I went to McDonald's I got my egg white delight

00:07:47   McMuffin. Used the watch couldn't be easier. Cashier could it did not give a

00:07:56   shit. I paid it you know I guess it worked like it was supposed to. I took my

00:08:03   sandwich out to the parking lot ate it in the parking lot and went to work and

00:08:08   now I feel prepared like with I like I have no extra commentary on that

00:08:12   experience except that it worked exactly like it's supposed to and it makes you

00:08:16   feel like I've got a I've got a currency device on my on my wrist that's the

00:08:21   thing is that I'm noticing is is just how all-encompassing it is as a device

00:08:28   and I feel like what they've done is they've just prepared like all of the

00:08:32   pieces have kind of culminated in this thing that you now strap to yourself.

00:08:37   Tom Bilyeu Yeah, and I can kind of say, and this might be where you're going to, but I can kind of

00:08:44   see how they've already laid like the groundwork for like the Apple Watch from five years from now.

00:08:49   Like not even just like a 2.0 from next year, but I'm thinking like a lot further down the road

00:08:57   where all of the things that it doesn't have,

00:09:01   like it doesn't do cellular networking on its own

00:09:03   and it doesn't have its own storage

00:09:05   where you can keep all of your videos and stuff like that.

00:09:08   I could just see where this would have it all.

00:09:12   And then you would, you know, you could like

00:09:13   have like your iCloud, your whole iCloud thing.

00:09:17   - Totally.

00:09:18   I was, yeah, I mean, it definitely,

00:09:20   that's where I wanted to get this conversation to.

00:09:24   mostly because like you know just in a as a partly as a response to people who are

00:09:28   basically just like being negative nellies about where it is now without the

00:09:36   presence of mind to remember what iva iphone version one is what was what it was and what it

00:09:45   was like what it was missing and and how it iterated and how you know in the in the preview

00:09:50   in the next eight years it got to this incredible all-encompassing tool that almost kind of

00:09:57   feels like it's fully matured and that people don't necessarily step back outside of themselves

00:10:03   and say okay this is what this device is now I wonder what it's gonna be five years from

00:10:10   now like you said.

00:10:11   Yeah I'm trying to remember some of this stuff that wasn't in iPhone 1.0. I know there was

00:10:18   no notifications, like so you couldn't slide down from the top to see any kind of notifications,

00:10:22   and there was no control center from the bottom. It was really just the home screen of apps,

00:10:27   and it was one home screen because there were no other apps. And you would just hit the

00:10:32   home button to go to the home screen and hit an app to go to an app, and that was it. Like,

00:10:36   that was the scope of the whole system. You're either in an app, and if you're in an app,

00:10:41   the app had the whole screen, and otherwise you were on the home screen, and then you

00:10:45   we'd use that to launch an app and that was it.

00:10:47   And part of the brilliance of the design

00:10:49   is how simple that was.

00:10:50   - Absolutely, and it almost had to be constrained

00:10:53   in order to just teach us what the thing was.

00:10:57   So we could get like sort of acclimated to the language

00:11:01   and then they could start to grow it out.

00:11:04   And I wonder, so then I wonder how you extend that

00:11:07   to the watch and what it's,

00:11:09   I mean, there are things about the UI right now

00:11:11   that I don't get naturally and I don't,

00:11:13   and they kind of annoy me, you know,

00:11:15   like the app, the home screen full of apps

00:11:20   is fun to play with, but I don't necessarily feel

00:11:24   like it's perfectly natural yet.

00:11:26   - No, and I'm, I still even a month in 'em,

00:11:29   I tapped the wrong app.

00:11:30   - Right, yeah, the tap targets are weird.

00:11:35   - They're not, maybe they're a little too small,

00:11:39   but they're definitely too close to each other.

00:11:42   That's the bigger problem isn't necessarily the size,

00:11:44   'cause I did, I think I said this with Multi

00:11:46   or with Joanne Stern, I actually took out a ruler

00:11:49   and measured, and they are a quarter of an inch,

00:11:51   which is like the minimum, you know,

00:11:54   it's just basically the minimum size for a tap target.

00:11:58   But the problem is they're right next to each other,

00:11:59   whereas like on the iPhone, when you'd have like

00:12:02   quarter inch tap targets, you'd still put some spacing

00:12:04   between them.

00:12:05   - Right, and when you get it right,

00:12:08   it feels like magic, right?

00:12:11   But that, but unless it happens all the time

00:12:13   that you get it right, it's not real magic.

00:12:15   It's just the illusion of magic.

00:12:17   I feel like, one of the things that I realized is,

00:12:21   I use Overcast a lot.

00:12:23   That's probably my most frequently used app on the watch.

00:12:27   And Overcast just would by default,

00:12:29   when all my apps came over, when I sunk with the watch,

00:12:33   Overcast ended up to the right side, the very edge,

00:12:37   to the very right edge.

00:12:39   And I realized, oh, that's an easier tap target.

00:12:42   I don't know if it's I don't know if it's mentally or not. Yeah, because actually physically no that makes sense though because it's sort of like a

00:12:49   Fitz's law right where the the main the menu bar on the Mac is easier to click on because you can you can just slide your

00:12:57   Arrow all the way to the top and you can't go too far. There's a similar

00:13:01   I think there's a similar

00:13:03   Usability advantage to being at the edge of that app cloud because you can't you you can get sloppy on the side

00:13:08   You know what? I mean? Yeah. Yeah and

00:13:12   Guess that was the story of my college years as well sloppy on the side

00:13:15   So there's a clock in the middle that's what they called right

00:13:22   So, I guess it does that work and does that work in theory and in practice that the clock being in the middle makes it

00:13:31   An easier tap target then do you just kind of get a bull's-eye?

00:13:34   I I don't know cuz I almost never go back to the clock like oh really? Yeah, I just assume

00:13:41   that and to me it's it's like the most underreported thing and I think people

00:13:48   just sort of get it but it's like to me the thing you have to get over with is

00:13:53   the in this thinking that it don't treat it like a little iPhone on your wrist

00:13:57   and in the iPhone whatever you were last doing when you unlock your iPhone there

00:14:01   it is again when you come back with the watch just when you're done with

00:14:04   whatever like maybe you wanted to change to a new podcast because you're using an

00:14:10   Overcast and then when you switch and you cue it up and you now you've got the new episode of whatever you want listen to playing

00:14:16   in your earbuds, then you just put your wrist down and you're done and

00:14:19   Next time you want to go to your watch. It's just right back on the watch face

00:14:23   You know like you never have to clean up as soon as you're done doing what it is that you did on your watch

00:14:29   Just put your wrist down and trust that it'll it'll come back to the watch face on its own. Yeah, that makes sense

00:14:35   Do you have what are things that you've experienced?

00:14:39   having done so I remember when the when the first iPhone came out I had these

00:14:45   moments all the time of love like oh I just did something like I just I got a

00:14:52   link in an email I clicked the link it opened up in mobile Safari I watched a

00:14:57   video and then I closed it and I thought I could never have done that before you

00:15:02   know six months ago the you know I just did something that I that I this

00:15:06   technology enabled that I could never have done before it existed and I feel

00:15:11   like I'm having sort of similar things like just those those realizations of

00:15:15   with the watch of oh this is why this exists this is one of those little

00:15:19   vignettes that they put in their commercials yeah I think you know and

00:15:26   again I know that there are other smart watches or whatever you want to call

00:15:30   them that get text messages you know transcript you know zap them between

00:15:33   your you know your phone and your watch so I realized that it's not

00:15:36   necessarily exclusive to Apple watch but I've tried it I've have the pebble and

00:15:40   I've worn the pebble and it's it's a little different number one the Apple

00:15:44   watch is pretty reliable I find the Bluetooth connection to be really good

00:15:48   and with pebble it was always flicking out which probably isn't pebbles fault

00:15:52   it's probably the limits of third-party apps versus Apple getting to have you

00:15:59   know tightest possible integration at the OS level on both the watch and the

00:16:03   phone but it's pretty cool when I like I do all the grocery shopping that's why I

00:16:09   go to Whole Foods so I'm at the Whole Foods and I'm walking around and I feel

00:16:13   my wrist go and Amy says can you get oj2 and then I don't even at you know I

00:16:18   don't know it just just it's nice because then you know you don't have to

00:16:22   go in your pocket and get out of your phone you don't you don't have to take

00:16:25   it out of your pocket is that reason yeah sorry my headphones broke for a

00:16:29   second no that's okay hey let me take a time out here just real quick and let

00:16:32   you know that if I start sounding like a terrible robot or something tell me right away because

00:16:37   it's a USB problem not a Skype problem.

00:16:41   Not an emotional problem.

00:16:42   No but but I had to episode a few weeks I should what I should do of course is just

00:16:48   as soon as we're done recording go to Amazon and buy a new microphone and instead I start

00:16:53   each show and then realize halfway through that I should hold the guest hey if I start

00:16:56   sounding bad, tell me right away. Don't be polite and say, "I don't care." Because it means the

00:17:03   audio I'm recording is bad too. All right. Oh, that sucks. Oh, so you've blown

00:17:08   a couple of episodes. Yeah, it was like the last half hour of the episode with Serenity Caldwell,

00:17:14   and so I recreated my audio. I played it, listened, and did it again. And I think it came out pretty

00:17:21   good I think it actually made me it like I tighten up a lot of my argument that's

00:17:26   um that the French call it a spree to scalia so you could basically just go

00:17:32   back and retroactively say smarter things yeah exactly that's perfect that's

00:17:37   exactly what it was like okay I'm gonna do that after we record but it was the

00:17:42   biggest pain in the ass as I'm sure you can it well imagine what it's like to to

00:17:47   You have to redub it and the crosstalk was just you know, horrifying

00:17:52   But uh, so which what what watch are you wearing?

00:17:59   Okay, so what I ordered is the 42 millimeter space black steel

00:18:05   With the black links, right? Really? I'm and I'm not like I said, I'm not a watch guy

00:18:10   So even that felt like it was bordering on a little too dressy for me

00:18:16   But as I as I think is is common that one's being delayed in shipment pretty heavily and I ordered it

00:18:23   You know right after

00:18:25   The store opened. Yeah, I ordered the same one and I ordered it first

00:18:29   I ordered it before Amy's or Jonas's or any of the bands and it still it has not shipped

00:18:34   I don't believe that one has shipped to anybody but I could be wrong good

00:18:38   I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like I haven't seen anybody post pictures of such a watch. Yeah

00:18:43   I know it's weird to feel the privilege of a delayed shipment. I don't know like just

00:18:48   the fact like that we're does that make it more precious when it actually comes? I don't

00:18:53   know.

00:18:54   Well and it put and I you know I am in no place to complain because I've had the regular

00:18:59   steel link bracelet for five weeks now so it's.

00:19:03   Is that the one you're wearing?

00:19:04   Yeah that's the one that's the review unit from Apple. People have asked I guess I should

00:19:08   answer is that the typical review unit period from apple is 60 days i actually haven't even

00:19:14   looked at the thing that i signed but i it's always been it doesn't matter whether it's like

00:19:18   a new mac or a phone or tablet or you know ipad anything it's always 60 days and they don't come

00:19:24   knocking after 60 if you're still testing something i mean i never like use them as my own although i

00:19:30   guess i kind of am with the watch because i'm still wearing it but it's my thought is oh well

00:19:34   It's their fault that the one I order is delayed. I'll just keep wearing it

00:19:38   But I think that you know

00:19:39   They would even rather have me still wearing it and being able to write about it then

00:19:42   You know, what does the watch mean to them for me to send it back?

00:19:45   But anyway, I'll have this watch until mine comes and then I'll package it back up and send it back to them

00:19:50   Well, that's great. That's it's a loaner. They gave you a loan or just like your insurance company

00:19:55   So my insurance company is Roxanna's watch which I ordered

00:20:01   For her shortly after mine and actually everybody on the team here at sandwich

00:20:07   Got one and so they kind of staggered in

00:20:10   I think JP's came first. He got the Milanese loop

00:20:14   Yeah, it's really handsome

00:20:17   But she so I ordered her a 38 millimeter one steel

00:20:22   Stainless steel with the black sport band and as soon as it came I just said this is mine now and

00:20:31   What are you gonna do and she doesn't honestly she's

00:20:33   She's very sweet and she did cheat. It's not important to her

00:20:37   She's just letting me wear it until I am until I get mine

00:20:40   and also I wanted to just like I want it was so important to me that I get to spend time with it and

00:20:45   You know get to know it a little bit better on an intimate level

00:20:50   So that I could start

00:20:53   You know, let's say let's say

00:20:55   Conceivably, this is what I do for a living I guess

00:20:59   Um, so it was important to me that I know what the watch is like.

00:21:03   Yeah, I mean in all seriousness, it is absolutely not inconceivable

00:21:08   that you guys will be writing, directing and shooting,

00:21:12   uh, a promotional video for some new product. Part of which products experience

00:21:17   is a watch extension. Totally. I can't wait for it to happen. We haven't done it yet,

00:21:22   but now we certainly can. Right. And it's, you know,

00:21:27   I you know you do you but you have to use it to get it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so I've got the 38

00:21:35   Watch face on and it's a little small for me

00:21:39   I think it's a little tiny and not because it looks tiny or dainty like, you know

00:21:42   Like like you were saying it it looks fine, but I want a bigger screen. I think

00:21:47   Just yeah, like a bigger screen. I I don't I I have actually no concept of how much bigger

00:21:53   here the 42 is gonna look and feel on my wrist.

00:21:57   But I know even incrementally, what is that?

00:21:59   Four millimeters out of, is like nearly a 10%,

00:22:04   oh well it's a little bit more than a 10% increase, right?

00:22:06   - Yeah, but it's somehow, my guess is with you going

00:22:11   from 38 to 42, when yours shows up, you're gonna be like,

00:22:14   you're gonna have like 15 minutes where you're a little

00:22:16   worried you think this might be too big.

00:22:18   And then like, but then like 20 minutes later you're like,

00:22:21   oh no, this is right.

00:22:22   Which brings me to a strange phenomenon,

00:22:24   which is one of those first, you know,

00:22:27   just kind of like startling realizations that I had

00:22:30   having spent very minimal time with the watch.

00:22:33   It's just like, and I am talking about maybe 10, 15 minutes

00:22:36   of having the watch on my hand after I paired it

00:22:38   and I sunk it and put the phone back in my pocket.

00:22:41   The next opportunity I had to take the phone out,

00:22:44   it felt like a giant screen.

00:22:46   Like, did you have that experience too?

00:22:48   Where your phone came out and you're like, whoa,

00:22:50   This is like a flat screen that I just took out of my pocket.

00:22:53   - Yeah, a little bit.

00:22:54   Especially if you're trying to,

00:22:58   I don't think you're supposed to be dictating

00:23:04   large amounts of text on a watch,

00:23:06   but it definitely works for texting.

00:23:07   And I think that the Siri transcription

00:23:11   is really, really good, including when you're out on cellular.

00:23:14   - Yeah, it's great.

00:23:19   I haven't used it a whole lot.

00:23:20   I mean, I've used it a little bit,

00:23:22   but you know, there's the whole kind of

00:23:24   social acceptability of dictating

00:23:30   into your watch in public,

00:23:32   or dictating into your phone even.

00:23:34   Like if you're at the market,

00:23:36   you don't wanna talk to your thing

00:23:37   'cause you sound like a dick, right?

00:23:39   - Right.

00:23:40   - I feel like that's the case.

00:23:41   Do you, like if you get a thing on your watch,

00:23:44   if you get a text on your watch from Amy,

00:23:47   and you're at Whole Foods

00:23:49   and you're not the only one in the aisle,

00:23:52   do you respond or do you do an emoji

00:23:57   even though emojis are for children?

00:23:59   - I'm kind of, I'm a little self-conscious about it,

00:24:05   but I try to, I just try to start walking in a direction

00:24:07   where I'm away from other customers

00:24:09   and I try to keep my voice down and cut my hands.

00:24:13   But I do, I cut my hands around the watch,

00:24:16   I realize, though, that it does kind of make you look conspirational. Like, you know what I mean?

00:24:21   Like, you're going off and whispering into your own rest. Like, 'cause like, the thing I'm

00:24:26   self-conscious about is I don't want to be loud talking into it. Like, I'll only do it in a way

00:24:31   that it seems as though strangers aren't going to hear what it is that I'm dictating, even though

00:24:36   if they looked at me and gave two seconds of thought about it, they'd realize I must be talking

00:24:40   to some kind of gadget. But as long as they can't really hear me and I'm not intruding on their

00:24:45   conversations and I don't mind and I feel like it's the way the future and got yeah,

00:24:50   it is the way of the future and God bless you for being polite and considerate about it.

00:24:54   And especially thinking about how many people probably out there and in the world wouldn't be

00:25:00   and also like think about how far we've come that it used to be like people

00:25:05   loud talking to their Bluetooth earpiece or whatever that were.

00:25:09   And I also think that it's, you know, and it just became acceptable and it's just,

00:25:15   you can't go anywhere in the Western world without seeing it, but at first,

00:25:20   10 years ago, it was really weird when you would see grown adults, like in public,

00:25:27   thumb typing into a three-inch device with all of their attention on it. Like, it just was a

00:25:34   weird thing to be doing in public, is sitting there pecking away at an electronic device,

00:25:39   like you know like an eight-year-old on a Gameboy. But yeah but you know but now

00:25:44   it's it's it's everywhere. Right now it's so something we do. And hopefully that

00:25:49   the idea is that just like is in that movie Her where you see people on the

00:25:56   subway and everybody's whispering softly into their earpiece or whatever that

00:26:01   that just becomes a way of life and and nobody thinks twice about it. I think

00:26:06   think it's hopefully it's gonna happen and hopefully it doesn't create a cacophony of

00:26:13   environmental pollution.

00:26:14   Yeah.

00:26:15   Did you like her?

00:26:18   Yeah, I loved that.

00:26:19   I loved it.

00:26:20   I loved it too.

00:26:21   Yeah, it hit me deeply on an emotional level but also it's just fun for future thinking

00:26:28   people.

00:26:29   Yeah, hold that thought.

00:26:30   Let's come back to that.

00:26:31   I mean, let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor and then we'll come back

00:26:33   I can talk about her.

00:26:34   'Cause I do think, I think the watch

00:26:35   is a step in that direction.

00:26:36   - Yeah.

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00:29:31   So her her I thought why?

00:29:33   It it's so I think it's gonna hold up really well

00:29:39   I like the movie and I think even where 20 years from now when we're past the point they're projecting to

00:29:45   Technologically and so there's obviously they're gonna have made some mistakes

00:29:49   I think it's gonna look pretty good in hindsight though sort of like the way 2001 seems great

00:29:54   Sure, or even or Blade Runner like the fashions are all sort of like weighted toward that era

00:30:00   Weighted toward the early 80s with the shoulder pads and the angles and whatnot

00:30:04   Just like the high-waisted pants in her are kind of weighted towards to on 2013 or 2014

00:30:10   I think it'll hold up and it'll sort of be emblematic of

00:30:15   of our version of futurism.

00:30:17   - Yeah, and I feel like the thing that they got right

00:30:20   and that Apple is clearly moving towards

00:30:22   is that your gadgets still totally matter as much as ever.

00:30:26   But your identity and your treatment,

00:30:29   they're all just front ends to like a cloud-based system.

00:30:33   And you just pick the size that you want at this moment.

00:30:37   - Right, and what they did in Her was they even removed

00:30:43   like a lot of the visual component

00:30:45   and just had it be so reliant on voice and sound,

00:30:50   which was an interesting way to go.

00:30:52   And I don't know how far we're gonna go in that direction,

00:30:56   especially with Siri and the state that it's in now

00:31:00   in terms of its ability to understand us

00:31:04   and communicate back.

00:31:05   I thought it was interesting.

00:31:08   And also just as a storytelling element,

00:31:11   by not inundating the technology with visuals,

00:31:15   they allowed the human elements

00:31:17   to take more of a front seat.

00:31:21   - Yeah, and I feel like it's,

00:31:23   like the touch components on the watch play into that too,

00:31:28   where it's not about what you're looking at.

00:31:31   It's some other sense.

00:31:33   And with her, a lot of the,

00:31:35   and cinematically, it has to be, it can't be touch, right?

00:31:40   I mean, at least not with the display outputs that we have at the moment.

00:31:49   Although I guess you can imagine some kind of game that ties into like an Apple Watch

00:31:52   and like rumbles on your wrist at certain points in a movie like the way that a rumble

00:31:55   pad in a video game would.

00:31:57   So maybe something like that is coming now that I think about it off the top of my head.

00:32:00   But you know, it just had to be verbal because that makes for cinema and it lets Scarlett

00:32:06   Johansson, you know, truly act.

00:32:08   Basically the best vocal interface in the world.

00:32:13   Her voice was just like representative of what technology, AI should sound like.

00:32:22   It really was.

00:32:23   Without being a creepy perv about it.

00:32:25   Like yeah, that's what I would want my robot to sound like too.

00:32:28   Yeah.

00:32:30   But to me it was the interaction that the characters had with the technology was so

00:32:34   ambient and you know you didn't have to break stride while you were getting off the train

00:32:37   to walk to your office building and something some kind of notification would come in. You don't

00:32:41   break stride and that to me is what the touch on the wrist helps to enable. Absolutely just

00:32:47   it's there you just kind of ambiently feel it and like in a tactile way. And so like what do you

00:32:55   feel like how's the how's the Taptic engine holding up for you? Do you enjoy it? I do. I

00:33:01   enjoy it a lot and like more and more as time goes on I've got my watch the sound off all the time.

00:33:07   I never… some of the sounds are too annoying and I find that they're not necessary.

00:33:12   Right.

00:33:13   I haven't really learned to distinguish between what the different sounds and the

00:33:17   different patterns and everything mean.

00:33:20   I think universally they just mean hey look over here or glance over here rather.

00:33:27   But it's never a displeasing feeling to like to just have a small like little minute

00:33:32   tap even if it happens whatever ten times in an hour or something or even

00:33:37   yeah because something's going up like some group chat that you're on is blown

00:33:41   up and is getting messages you know a frequent barrage of messages from

00:33:45   colleagues or something like that right I mean if you're doing something else

00:33:48   important like like recording a podcast and like and your wrist is blowing up

00:33:52   then that's maybe not as not quite not quite as fun but I for the first few

00:33:57   days after I had I was wearing the watch I was I found myself wanting more taps

00:34:02   like I wanted like well I'd be driving and I turned on navigation even though I

00:34:08   know exactly how the hell to get to where I'm going

00:34:11   turn on navigation just because it's kind of fun to get 12 taps to turn right

00:34:15   or something yeah that physically pleasing of a sensation I forget if I

00:34:20   talked to I know I didn't write about it but I may be a man but I did I got

00:34:23   driving directions to my accountant last month and so this was to get my taxes

00:34:28   done and the Daring Fireball LLC tag, you know, it's a whole afternoon. And it's, I

00:34:35   don't know, maybe like a 20 to 30 minute drive outside the city. It was actually the first

00:34:40   time I was driving with the i-Thing and I wanted to test the directions. Now I've been

00:34:45   going to the same accountant for years and years and years, so I know how to get there,

00:34:48   but I wanted to try the directions. But it was actually kind of an amazing, in one of

00:34:52   those like, I know people do this every day, but I don't drive every day, so it was a little

00:34:55   science fiction to me—is westbound out of Philadelphia, there's really only one road.

00:35:02   It's called the Schuylkill Expressway, and it's called the Schuylkill Expressway because it goes

00:35:05   right along the path of the Schuylkill River. And knowing how to spell the word "Schuylkill" is a

00:35:10   true test of being a Philadelphian. S-C-H-U-Y-L-K-I-L-L. Old Indian name. Anyway, you just go

00:35:18   out—but anyway, it's a notoriously bad road, though, because it's a lot of the way, it's only

00:35:24   two lanes in each direction and so any little accident and it just dies. And I ended up,

00:35:29   there was some kind of tractor trailer accident earlier in the morning and it had been shut

00:35:34   down for a while and Siri gave me what I thought was crazy directions. She was getting me off

00:35:41   the school goal almost as soon as I got on it and I thought, well, I'll just go her way.

00:35:44   And as soon as I took that exit and I looked ahead from what she steered me away from,

00:35:48   I was like, Oh my God, I would have, there's no way I would have made the appointment.

00:35:51   I would have had to like and trying to reschedule an appointment with your accountant when it's

00:35:55   already I don't know it was like April 4th or something like that it's like you're already

00:35:59   you know I mean he would have helped me out because you belong but it's still I would

00:36:02   have felt like it like a dirtbag you don't you don't stand your accountant up in early

00:36:07   April so she took me this different way where I've never been before and I really didn't

00:36:12   know where I was going and so I didn't know at the time what the difference between the

00:36:16   left and right taps were but it was enough that I just felt something and you could just

00:36:22   glance at your wrist and you know and it would say 600 feet make a left and it was great

00:36:27   I thought.

00:36:28   Oh yeah it was great and the display that the what you actually see on the wrist is

00:36:36   so minimal that it doesn't get in the way you can you can sort of interpret it at a

00:36:40   a glance because you're supposed to be driving and most of the experience is audio and you

00:36:47   know I typically when I'm driving I use Waze.

00:36:50   I put I mount my iPhone to the dash thing and I use Waze and Waze has better directions.

00:36:56   It's smarter about traffic.

00:36:57   It's smarter in so many ways but the audio quality sounds like it's coming through the

00:37:03   telephone rather than you know like a built-in library of or an internal audio engine.

00:37:10   I don't know technically whether that's true except Waze sounds like garbage and Apple

00:37:16   Maps sounds amazing.

00:37:19   So to go back and get directions from the watch sounds amazing and feels amazing and

00:37:25   it's like oh yeah.

00:37:26   It's again we should name one of those moments where you're like this is the future.

00:37:30   This feels like the future.

00:37:32   And even to pile on that, last week I had made a dinner reservation using OpenTable

00:37:44   so I could meet somebody after work.

00:37:47   And I get in the car and then OpenTable gives me an alert on my wrist, because they have

00:37:53   a watch out, gives me an alert on my wrist that I've got my dinner reservation in like

00:37:59   what 10 minutes or something.

00:38:01   And then I tap into the app on the wrist and go to the location and it opens up the map

00:38:08   and starts giving me directions.

00:38:10   Like holy cow, I didn't expect for it to do that, I didn't ask for it to do that, but

00:38:14   that's what the watch does in 2015.

00:38:17   Yeah, one of my first experiences like that was with, again I don't want to repeat myself,

00:38:26   but I think I said this the most, but it was on the Amtrak train and I had already saved

00:38:29   the pass to my pass book on the phone and it just, when I got to Penn Station, it just

00:38:38   appeared on my watch.

00:38:40   And then when we got on a train, the guy came by and I didn't have to fish anything out,

00:38:44   didn't have to switch.

00:38:45   I just held my wrist up to the guy and he scanned it and boom, we're on the train.

00:38:49   So it's awesome.

00:38:50   I feel sync between the watch and the phone is just really highly tuned.

00:38:55   I haven't felt it lacking in any way.

00:39:00   And that's kind of enjoyable to watch when you see different sync services between your

00:39:06   devices kind of fail at more points along the way.

00:39:12   Do you think it was a mistake for Apple to already have apps?

00:39:19   And it's absolutely true in some cases where the basic thought when they announced Apple

00:39:25   The watch kit back in November and said hey, we're gonna ship this in a couple of weeks

00:39:30   Way before the watch comes out

00:39:32   I just remember thing that sounds like a bad idea because you're asking people to write software even if it's a limited

00:39:38   SDK and it really is limited

00:39:40   But you're asking them to write software for a device that they've never used and so they're not really know

00:39:44   They're not really familiar with how they're supposed to use it

00:39:47   And I think it's definitely true that some apps really

00:39:51   Really suffer from that. Oh, absolutely

00:39:55   Yeah, I have a number of them on my watch that really suffered from that.

00:40:00   Now do you think or do you know anecdotally or otherwise whether any developers were given

00:40:05   early access to the watch specifically for making their apps better?

00:40:11   I think you have to define layers of access.

00:40:15   I don't think anybody got a watch.

00:40:17   I think some people clearly got access.

00:40:20   I mean and obviously a lot of people got the developer lab invitations.

00:40:24   And I think in the middle there's at each level there's a smaller number of developers who got

00:40:32   early access to I think to the labs though not not that they got to take a watch and wear it

00:40:37   but that they got to you know fly out to Cupertino and and write stuff yeah but on the other hand

00:40:43   sorry I think well I just think that for example though I would assume twitter is on that list of

00:40:49   companies that had really privileged access and I think that their app is useless almost

00:40:53   >> Oh, yeah, it's awful. But on the other hand, Marco's app is incredible.

00:41:00   >> Yeah.

00:41:01   >> And I have no idea how he kind of figured out what user patterns would make the most sense

00:41:07   without having the device in his hand. Except that, like, I'm never wondering. From the very

00:41:14   first time I launched Overcast on the watch, I never wondered how anything worked. It was

00:41:21   exactly where it was supposed to be. Yeah, I know he was worried about it. I remember,

00:41:25   because I actually helped him beta test then before he shipped it, just so that, you know,

00:41:31   I had the review unit and I could, you know, couldn't help much because he was getting ready

00:41:36   to ship it, at least a little bit of sanity checking. His big concern, or one of his concerns,

00:41:42   was that there wouldn't be any point to it because there's that now-playing widget,

00:41:47   which can work with anything. And his thought was, well, what's the point of even doing it

00:41:51   at all if the now playing handles everything. I said no, there's definite usefulness. Even

00:41:59   with just one day of testing Overcast on the watch, it was absolutely useful because there's

00:42:04   no way with now playing to do anything really other than just play and pause, whereas Overcast

00:42:08   on the watch, you can switch to a new podcast and stuff like that.

00:42:11   PAUL Yeah, I mean it's got context awareness. It knows what you're listening to, which is

00:42:15   hugely important for a podcast library where people kind of listen to every thing differently

00:42:21   and that's pretty awesome and I you know the now playing app is there but I don't know exactly what

00:42:29   it does and I don't know what it can what it hijacks and what it doesn't hijack and I'd rather

00:42:33   just leave it leave it alone I wish there was you know it's just one of those apple apps that you

00:42:37   just kind of put in a drawer somewhere. Yeah I kind of feel like as a pundit overall that it's

00:42:43   And it's the sort of thing that I try to be cognizant of, but I know that I'm being guilty,

00:42:47   is it's like Apple can't win. Because if they didn't have any apps, I would be complaining

00:42:52   that there should be apps already. And now that they shipped with apps on day one, I'm complaining

00:42:59   because the apps, some of them don't work so well, and some of them don't seem to have been designed

00:43:04   with the context in mind. Yeah, I can't wait till Slack's app gets good because I use Slack almost

00:43:10   more than anything besides email.

00:43:13   And I can't figure out how to actually respond to reply to Slack.

00:43:19   And if you just open up Slack, the Slack watch app, you're presented with two icons, one

00:43:27   of which is I think direct messages and one of which is mentions of your name.

00:43:34   And neither one seems to be great at tracking what conversations I actually need access

00:43:40   too.

00:43:41   And then if you get an alert in Slack, which I always do, there's no all you can do it

00:43:46   on the watch is dismiss it right away.

00:43:48   You can't actually reply from that alert, which I don't want to do because that's I

00:43:55   mean Slack is all about two-way communications, not broadcasting, broadcast of a platform.

00:44:01   Well in the same way that you can respond to text messages, right?

00:44:06   Right.

00:44:07   It's the fact that you can respond to text messages and dictate a little thing is what

00:44:12   you would want to do with Slack.

00:44:13   Absolutely.

00:44:14   And which brings me to a point I was going to make, which is like how forgiving we now

00:44:20   can sort of let ourselves be of like dictating.

00:44:26   Do you call it Siri?

00:44:28   I do.

00:44:29   I call it.

00:44:30   I just call it Siri.

00:44:31   Yeah.

00:44:32   So when you're dictating to Siri, even if it's like responding to a message, do you

00:44:37   - You know how you can choose a sent from iPhone signature

00:44:40   with mail, from mobile mail?

00:44:43   And the idea behind that was,

00:44:45   theoretically it was probably just so that you could see,

00:44:49   the other person receiving it cut you a little slack

00:44:52   for reasons of brevity or typos or whatever.

00:44:55   I feel like Dictated by Siri kinda needs its own little,

00:44:59   and by the way, I turn sent from my iPhone off

00:45:03   because I will like, I'll write a frickin' novel

00:45:06   in an email from my phone.

00:45:08   It's just like one of my, I play my email on my phone

00:45:11   like Beethoven and I take pride in that

00:45:15   with italics and proper quote levels and everything.

00:45:19   And so it would shame me to tell somebody--

00:45:23   - To try to make an excuse.

00:45:24   You wouldn't wanna-- - Yeah, yeah.

00:45:25   I wouldn't wanna do that.

00:45:26   But then again, if you're trying to respond to a message,

00:45:32   dictated into your watch and then beat

00:45:34   and then go on with your business,

00:45:36   you're not gonna sit there getting frustrated

00:45:38   because she misheard something

00:45:40   and maybe it's clear enough,

00:45:41   maybe it's like enough to get the point.

00:45:45   I've had a couple of misfires

00:45:48   with badly dictated messages, replies to text,

00:45:53   but that's just kind of fun.

00:45:55   - It's partly because there's like a tipping point

00:46:02   I've realized where as Siri dictation has crossed some point on the curve between too

00:46:11   slow and inaccurate to be useful and it's reached a tipping point now where it's quick

00:46:16   enough and accurate enough to be useful.

00:46:19   And I, you know, and this has happened for me sometime in the last year.

00:46:25   You know, and I wrote a piece about it about how it was so much better on my iPhone a couple

00:46:28   months ago like I think it a large part them ramping this up for the watch but

00:46:34   as it reaches that tipping point suddenly you trusted a lot more whereas

00:46:38   in the first couple of years where Siri existed and they had this dictation I

00:46:42   would double-check every time before I'd hit send and now I a lot of times I I'm

00:46:47   hitting send without really looking at it and sometimes they are there's some

00:46:51   pretty bad typos in there. Yeah I accidentally texted to Roxanna the other day she said hey

00:46:59   can you stop by the store on the way home and I think I did I responded I dictated do

00:47:08   you want me to stop on the way home or do you want to want me to come home first and

00:47:14   then I like I dictated that and then I went on with what I was doing what got sent was

00:47:19   you want me to come home? Do you want me to stop on the way home or do you want me to come home

00:47:23   first? I can't even." And then that's sent. And she was like, "What? Did you just say? What's

00:47:29   with the attitude?" Because it's like, it's like, it's like caddy. It's like kind of bitchy in the

00:47:38   wrong way. Yeah. Usually if it's, if it's good, meaning like it's not, it's going to be obvious

00:47:44   to your recipient, it's going to look like a homonym. You know, like if they read it

00:47:48   out loud in their head, they'll take a guess. I actually kind of like that, like with Amy

00:47:52   or other friends, you know, more technically inclined, you know, let's face it, it's

00:47:58   mostly who I'm texting. I like it when they can guess and they're like Siri or vice

00:48:04   versa. I'll do it to them and try to guess whether the weird typo in the message they

00:48:08   just sent me was because of that. Like, I feel like it's becoming a skill. Whereas

00:48:11   I can't even at the end doesn't sound like that. It sounds exactly like you're giving her a hard time

00:48:16   Yeah, it really does sounds intentional like Siri just manufactured some attitude

00:48:20   I can't I can't believe you would even ask me to do that

00:48:24   What do you think of the fact that Siri doesn't talk back to you to the watch? Oh

00:48:30   That's a good question

00:48:34   It somehow feels natural to me

00:48:37   Although I do feel like a lot of her personality is missing because of that

00:48:41   but it somehow seems right to me.

00:48:43   - True, but maybe we know that personality so well already

00:48:48   that's ingrained that we can kinda hear her voice.

00:48:51   Maybe like you did, it took me a couple days to realize it.

00:48:54   Oh, like she's not talking,

00:48:56   she's not talking through the speaker

00:48:57   when I ask her something.

00:48:59   She's just like, it's just coming out in text,

00:49:01   but I already can hear her.

00:49:03   - Yeah, and I guess that's why I was a little slow to answer

00:49:06   is because the fact that she doesn't talk,

00:49:09   or depending on your country and your preferences,

00:49:11   he doesn't talk, it sneaks up on you on the watch

00:49:16   and you realize only after you've really been using Siri

00:49:21   a lot that it never talks to you.

00:49:23   - Right, I kinda like it.

00:49:26   - Yeah.

00:49:26   - It's a little bit more private.

00:49:28   Yeah, I had this thought that the watch is kind of,

00:49:34   maybe the watch is what cracks Siri open

00:49:36   more than, much more than any other, anything else.

00:49:38   the watch is kind of one of the of the of the many things that the watch is

00:49:42   watch is like a Siri machine basically yeah I think a large part of it I think

00:49:47   if you're not using Siri a couple of times a day then you're not really

00:49:51   getting the most out of the watch right I really do think that's true it's got a

00:49:55   freaking microphone in it it's I think that's one thing that's a lot of people

00:49:59   aren't really thinking about is you're wearing something on your on your wrist

00:50:03   that has a microphone in it that you can just talk to

00:50:07   and it can record your thoughts,

00:50:10   which makes it even more frustrating to me

00:50:12   that there's not a voice recorder app on it.

00:50:14   - That's a little weird.

00:50:16   Well, let's hold that thought

00:50:17   and let's talk about the apps that are missing.

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00:54:13   Just trying it out. Yeah, I'm telling we've been using it to get all this free stuff

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00:54:24   great

00:54:26   Welcome daring fire ballers. That's what they get you see when you go there. So what were we talking about with the

00:54:30   No voice recorder app was the thing I said, yeah, and there's no notes app

00:54:36   No voice recorder app

00:54:40   Like yeah, so like I mean you don't even need both of those

00:54:43   You just need one or the other because you could I feel I don't know. That's not true. I

00:54:48   Know what you mean though?

00:54:50   Because the whole idea is you just have a thought in your head you want to commit to the watch and

00:54:54   If you get dictaphone you want to put it down. Yeah

00:54:57   So why not like I do that all time do you do I I do

00:55:01   My number one use case for voice recorder app on the phone is when I'm working with a composer

00:55:07   and I don't like have an, you know, I need to like, I'll often like sing a thing if I'm

00:55:13   trying to express it and can't put it in words, I'll sing a thing and then I'll send it off

00:55:18   as an audio thing.

00:55:19   Or maybe sometimes we record temp voiceover with the voiceover app.

00:55:24   And every once in a while, I guess I'm driving and I have a thought and I want to record

00:55:29   it so I don't forget it.

00:55:31   Then that's the third use case.

00:55:33   But to me, the fact that there's nothing like that on the watch is unconscionable.

00:55:38   Yeah, the closest thing I could think of would be like, at least with the built-in apps,

00:55:44   would be like texting yourself.

00:55:46   I guess so.

00:55:47   But even then, it just seems a little weird.

00:55:51   And there are definitely third-party apps.

00:55:53   Evernote has a pretty decent app.

00:55:58   I forget what else I've tried.

00:56:01   And it seems like it's fairly focused on the watch specific thing.

00:56:07   I think if and when the day comes that there's a Vesper thing for the phone, it would really

00:56:12   just be a big plus button and make a new note and that's it.

00:56:16   Just hit plus, start talking, there's the text and then you're done.

00:56:20   This is really all I really want.

00:56:23   Sounds great.

00:56:24   I wonder if you could use Siri and just say, "Hey Siri, make a new note."

00:56:27   I wonder what she would do.

00:56:28   Yeah, I don't know.

00:56:29   I don't know. Does she know how to work with reminders that or uh

00:56:33   Or any notes out that it still confuses me what Siri works with and what she doesn't work with? Yeah

00:56:39   I'm not sure. I don't think that would work on the watch. Although I'm not sure what happens versus the phone

00:56:43   You know, it's a funny thing when you're on a podcast if you use the phrase

00:56:47   Hey and in the name of the product it it

00:56:50   Will end up getting notes from people whose devices while they were listening to the show started going

00:56:55   I'm not saying we can't say it because it's hard to talk about it without saying

00:56:58   a series but it turns out though that it turns out that people who like listen obviously if you're

00:57:04   listening with headphones on which is probably how most people listen to podcasts nowadays it doesn't

00:57:07   but if you know a lot awful lot of people like my pal brent simmons he just likes to listen to

00:57:11   podcasts on his speakers at his desk while he works you know it's like he said like haven't

00:57:15   talked you know the way you know other people like to have talk radio on he just likes to have

00:57:19   podcasts it makes it sound like he's in a you know office full of friends or whatever but then

00:57:23   then it makes your charging iPhone at your desk wake up.

00:57:26   - That's awesome.

00:57:28   So I mean that's dangerous also.

00:57:31   Once Siri becomes more aware of operating

00:57:36   the insides of a phone rather than just referring

00:57:40   to the outsides.

00:57:41   - And it puts great power in front of us

00:57:44   'cause we could do something like say the phrase

00:57:47   that would initiate that and then immediately say,

00:57:51   text my wife I'm leaving you send.

00:57:53   - Well that's dark, I was just thinking like

00:57:56   hey Siri make a fart sound.

00:57:58   - Oh right.

00:57:58   That's probably a little better.

00:58:03   - What are your favorite apps?

00:58:07   - I totally love the weather app.

00:58:13   I think that the weather app has one,

00:58:15   it took me a while to get used to it

00:58:16   and this is one of those apps,

00:58:17   this is the built in weather app from Apple

00:58:19   And it's one of those apps where it's, to me, surprisingly deep.

00:58:23   Because it starts with all of the cities you've configured on your iPhone weather app.

00:58:28   So it already knows the cities that you're interested in.

00:58:32   And you can scroll down to get details and you get like a 10 day forecast and all this

00:58:38   stuff.

00:58:39   You go side to side to switch cities and locations.

00:58:42   But then while you're on a city, you can tap it and it changes from like the next like

00:58:47   a clock style it's you know and to me that's optimized for the watch it's like

00:58:51   the next 10 hours of like precipitation the cloud cover and the temperature my

00:58:59   only complaint is I kind of wish that they combined the cloud cover and

00:59:04   temperature ones because I want the temperature and the you know whether or

00:59:07   not it's like likely to rain hmm you pay attention to the weather a lot I guess

00:59:13   you would have to. Yeah, we don't live in Southern California. I don't, I never ever

00:59:20   open a weather app but I'm just, I'm looking through it as you're talking and yeah it is

00:59:24   really nicely done. Yeah well and you know April, April's probably a good time to have been trying

00:59:29   it because April is the type of month where the weather is, you have no idea you know and just

00:59:33   because it's really cold in the morning when you wake up it might go up to 70 in the afternoon and

00:59:39   and you wanna see that.

00:59:40   So it's like just knowing,

00:59:41   like looking at the temperature right now

00:59:43   at 10 in the morning doesn't necessarily give you a clue

00:59:46   as to what it's gonna be like in the afternoon.

00:59:49   - So I think the weather app was probably

00:59:51   when I first put on the watch and it's loading the cities

00:59:55   and I saw the status spinner.

00:59:56   I think that's probably the first time I saw like,

00:59:59   oh, an app takes time.

01:00:01   It's not instantaneous like on your iPhone.

01:00:04   - Yeah, but sometimes it doesn't.

01:00:05   I still can't quite figure out

01:00:07   why sometimes it takes longer than others.

01:00:09   And maybe it's because I'm not quite sure how much of it is to blame on Bluetooth and

01:00:14   how much of it is like that the phone is checking the weather in advance already and already

01:00:22   has up to date weather information.

01:00:24   And then other times maybe the watch is like, you know, hey phone, tell me about the weather.

01:00:29   This guy wants to see the weather and the phone is like, oh shit, I haven't checked

01:00:32   in a while.

01:00:33   You got to wait.

01:00:34   Hold on.

01:00:35   And you know,

01:00:36   get smarter about caching that stuff and smarter about just collecting the data when you need

01:00:43   it and maybe collecting a little too much.

01:00:46   And maybe that's kind of like the, you know how like scrolling on the iPhone one wasn't

01:00:51   quite as glassy as it is now.

01:00:54   Maybe that's a kind of a sort of an analog to like waiting for data to load on the watch.

01:01:02   Yeah.

01:01:03   What about you?

01:01:04   What are your favorite apps?

01:01:05   Well yeah like I said Overcast is probably I use it a lot.

01:01:11   Remote is really cool.

01:01:12   Yeah.

01:01:13   Then again I've always been a I've always liked the remote app on the iPhone.

01:01:16   See I never did.

01:01:17   Even when it was before when people would complain endlessly about it.

01:01:21   Yeah it takes forever to connect but I think it's probably I'm still one of those people

01:01:27   that's just kind of still impressed by the fact that I can control my something on my

01:01:31   TV with my phone and it just it never doesn't amaze me and so now the fact that

01:01:37   I can do that a little bit quicker and the pairing like sort of seems to last

01:01:43   longer I think you know before getting dumped and I have to then reconnect I

01:01:49   just think it's it's pretty cool. I find that I have always I mean I just lose

01:01:56   the stupid Apple TV remote I lose it ten times every time I watch a movie I mean

01:02:01   I mean, not and lose it, meaning like,

01:02:03   is it on my left-hand side of the couch,

01:02:05   right-hand side?

01:02:07   15 minutes, and all I wanted to do was quick pause

01:02:09   because Amy's asking me a question from upstairs

01:02:13   or in the kitchen or something,

01:02:14   and I just wanna pause the damn thing.

01:02:16   I really like having it on the wrist.

01:02:19   And it's one of those little things

01:02:21   where I feel like you kinda have to take

01:02:23   what people at Apple say at their word,

01:02:26   like when Tim Cook has said what he likes

01:02:27   about wearing the Apple Watch,

01:02:29   and he's, you know, I've heard him say it

01:02:31   like three or four times, that he likes using it

01:02:33   as a remote control to control his Apple TV.

01:02:35   And as somebody who never liked the one on the phone,

01:02:39   'cause I always found then it's like, it's even worse,

01:02:41   'cause it's a device that's just as small

01:02:43   and I can, you know, lose it between seat cushions.

01:02:46   But then, you know, what are the odds

01:02:48   that the current app is the remote app?

01:02:51   It's not, because I'm probably texting people

01:02:53   or checking Twitter because I'm doing two things at once,

01:02:55   and then I've got to double tap to switch.

01:02:57   But the way that the thing works on the watch

01:03:00   is if you're watching something, actively watching it,

01:03:02   it just automatically goes back to being the remote,

01:03:05   not the clock face or anything like that,

01:03:07   which to me is exactly what I want.

01:03:09   It's as though the device read my mind.

01:03:11   - Totally.

01:03:13   It's good for that.

01:03:15   A little tip, we taped the remote,

01:03:18   sorry, the Apple TV remote in our bedroom,

01:03:21   we taped it to like a little packet of Kleenex.

01:03:24   (laughing)

01:03:26   So that's a life hack.

01:03:27   But we, you know, the kids in bed with us playing with it

01:03:33   and he'll drop it down between the mattress

01:03:35   and the bed frame quicker than anything.

01:03:38   But yeah, so that's a fun one.

01:03:42   Other than that, I think activity tracker is really cool.

01:03:46   Heart rate monitor is really cool.

01:03:49   I like the fact that,

01:03:53   So we worked with Jawbone up as a client.

01:03:56   We did something with Fitbit.

01:03:59   So I've had the experience

01:04:01   of wearing these activity trackers,

01:04:04   but honestly it just always felt too cumbersome

01:04:07   for me to like keep something like with me all the time

01:04:11   that was dedicated to that purpose.

01:04:13   If I'm not gonna wear a watch,

01:04:15   then I don't really wanna wear a wristband

01:04:17   that only does that one thing.

01:04:19   But now that I've got everything in that thing

01:04:22   and the fact that it's an activity tracker,

01:04:25   now I'm finally getting the value of an activity tracker.

01:04:28   And so just earlier today,

01:04:31   if I can either take the elevator up to my office

01:04:34   or take the stairs,

01:04:35   and I know that this stupid thing is gonna remind me

01:04:39   that I have like 100 more calories to burn or something,

01:04:44   then I don't know why.

01:04:47   I guess I don't have as much free agency as I think I do,

01:04:52   but I'm gonna take the stairs because I'm a child

01:04:54   and I want a little trophy.

01:04:56   - I thought it was silly when I saw people say

01:04:59   that it had, somebody had a report,

01:05:01   it might have been a Wired magazine story,

01:05:04   like behind the scenes of the creation of the watch.

01:05:06   It probably was 'cause that guy had the most access

01:05:09   and that it's become common within Apple,

01:05:12   like in the middle of a meeting

01:05:14   for people to just stand up randomly.

01:05:16   Because a watch that they're wearing said,

01:05:19   hey, you know, you know, there's like your last chance to get another hour where you've stood for a minute and it's just like become part of

01:05:26   the in and again

01:05:28   It's like you can and within Apple

01:05:31   I'm sure that people would just chuckle because they know why you're doing it and maybe you wouldn't do it if you were in a

01:05:35   Meeting with people from another company, you know who aren't familiar

01:05:39   But that within the walls of Apple this create seemingly crazy behavior has become a norm

01:05:44   That you can just stand up for a minute and kind of you know, move your legs in the middle of a meeting

01:05:49   Because you want to make your watch happy and I have to admit I expected to turn that off and I still have it on

01:05:55   Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of fun. It's task completion

01:05:59   And I you got to think that an app is coming. That's more like a game

01:06:03   almost like yo level of stupid simplicity where

01:06:07   like it just reminds you it sends you a reminder to like pump your fists and

01:06:12   and you have to pump your fist no matter where you are.

01:06:17   And if you do it quicker, you get more points or something.

01:06:19   And then just idiots are gonna be

01:06:21   pumping their fists all over the place.

01:06:23   - I think that they did a really interesting

01:06:26   amount of design on those activity like summaries

01:06:31   and the stand reminders in terms of getting the balance

01:06:38   right so that you keep using it

01:06:41   and that it changes your behavior, which is the goal.

01:06:44   But combine that with,

01:06:46   obviously the team that made the watch has been using it

01:06:51   in some degree internally for a while, right?

01:06:54   Like a year, maybe longer, testing these prototypes.

01:06:57   Probably longer than that, that the people in the design lab

01:07:00   have been wearing the early prototypes

01:07:02   to try to fine tune the software.

01:07:03   And I feel like once they got into it for a very long time,

01:07:06   it would be easy to lose track of,

01:07:08   I think this is how a lot of first run experiences go wrong,

01:07:10   is that the team that makes it gets into it and gets it

01:07:14   and understands it and loses track of what it would be like

01:07:17   to have it on your wrist for the first day.

01:07:19   And then you feel like, my God,

01:07:21   this thing will not shut up about me standing.

01:07:23   And I feel like they dialed it back to a level

01:07:27   where it's really well-balanced between those two

01:07:31   in terms of being frequent enough

01:07:33   to get you to change some of your behavior,

01:07:36   but not so frequent that you feel like,

01:07:39   why in the world would this thing be bugging me like this?

01:07:43   - Totally, if you just, I think that's the case,

01:07:45   is if you ignore it, then it knows you're ignoring it.

01:07:48   And instead of, maybe instead of shutting itself off

01:07:51   completely, it just gives you less frequent alerts.

01:07:54   And so it's kind of like, it onboards you,

01:07:57   and then instead of you saying, this sucks,

01:08:00   I'm jumping off, it does just very smart little things

01:08:03   to keep you on.

01:08:05   And that's exactly what happened with me,

01:08:07   is like first I found it cool, then I found it annoying,

01:08:11   then I actually gave in and wanted to do what it told me.

01:08:14   - Yeah.

01:08:15   And it has been a little bit of an eye-opener for me.

01:08:19   I've never worn any of those trackers.

01:08:21   It's been a little bit of an eye-opener for me,

01:08:23   like that there's definitely some,

01:08:26   shockingly a correlation between a very productive day

01:08:32   as a blogger and a very sedentary day.

01:08:35   (laughing)

01:08:36   Like the day that I wrapped up the second sort of Apple Watch review that I published

01:08:43   like a week ago, it was like my circles went nowhere.

01:08:48   It was like I finally got like on a chain, like I finally got on a groove and I was in

01:08:52   the zone and I felt like I had this article I'd been trying to get out for a long time

01:08:56   Alf and then it's like when I finished it, I looked down and it looked like my watch

01:09:01   usually does it like, you know, two in the afternoon.

01:09:03   You should win an award for that. All right, there should be like anti

01:09:07   You know how they give you the have you gotten some of those awards they give you like these. Yeah

01:09:11   Yeah, I just got like this silver concentric circles one. Yeah, they should give you like a booby-boo

01:09:17   Booby award, you know for for when you've really screwed up

01:09:20   Right and the thing is one of the things that's so interesting about this watch is

01:09:31   And I feel like it's one of those things that we just the first version of it the one that you and I are talking

01:09:35   About right now just has not even tapped into it. But the watch knows when you're wearing

01:09:40   Right it as soon as you take it off like to show somebody or to change the band or whatever

01:09:45   it knows it's off your wrist because the sensors are off and it locks the screen and

01:09:50   But that means that like if you are not going to wear it all the time

01:09:56   If you're gonna wear like your you know, dress watch when you go out at night or something like that

01:10:00   you're going to wear it sometimes. The watch knows when you're not being active because you're not

01:10:04   wearing it and it also knows when you're not being active even though you are wearing it,

01:10:08   which is a big difference, right? Like if I just decide to wear my old watch for another day

01:10:12   and I don't put the Apple watch on for a day, I'm not going to register any activity on the watch,

01:10:16   but the watch also knows that I haven't been like a complete turd.

01:10:20   Pete: Sure.

01:10:21   Ted, off screen Sure.

01:10:22   Whereas if you are, if you're wearing it, I think that's so interesting

01:10:25   and I feel like it could really come into play in a lot of different ways.

01:10:29   Jon Moffitt That's true, but it also entices you to keep wearing it until the moment you

01:10:35   shut your eyes to go to sleep, right?

01:10:37   Jon Moffitt Yeah, I totally underestimated that, you know, before I started wearing it, is how much

01:10:43   those fitness tracking things, even as somebody who's not super into those features, but they

01:10:48   still motivate me to keep wearing it and not wear my other watches because I want to get the credits.

01:10:53   Yeah I went for a run the other night and turned on the like what is it's not

01:11:00   it's the it's the exercise app it's not the activity tracker. Workout. Yeah the

01:11:05   workout app and I told it I was going for an outdoor run and I went I was

01:11:10   running I did I ran for 24 minutes I got home it told me you should probably run

01:11:16   for 30 minutes I went back out and ran for another six minutes I came back in I

01:11:22   I came back in the house, I took the watch off,

01:11:25   but it was still going 'cause it was like,

01:11:27   I didn't set a goal, I had just left it as an open exercise.

01:11:32   And I took off the watch and then like the bottom

01:11:34   of the watch was glowing green and it frightened me.

01:11:37   I didn't know why.

01:11:38   And then I just, like I researched it a little bit

01:11:41   and found out that the green light is how it actually

01:11:44   reads your heart rate.

01:11:45   Do you know about that?

01:11:46   - Yes, a little bit.

01:11:48   And I think it switches to a more powerful mode

01:11:50   when you're in the midst of a workout.

01:11:52   - Probably, yeah.

01:11:53   - And it pulls your heartbeat constantly

01:11:58   as opposed to doing it every six, seven minutes.

01:12:01   - Right, which is weird to me because,

01:12:02   if you and I are both sitting, presumably,

01:12:07   if you go over to the heart rate monitor

01:12:08   in your glances or whatever,

01:12:10   then it's gonna tell you your heart rate

01:12:13   was whatever three minutes ago,

01:12:15   but now it's reading, it's taking a new reading.

01:12:17   And that's weird to me when I saw that the first time

01:12:20   that three minutes ago it was like,

01:12:22   it was paying attention to my heart rate.

01:12:24   I didn't tell it to do that,

01:12:25   but I think it's kind of awesome that it did.

01:12:27   And so presumably there's like,

01:12:28   I've got a whole day's worth of data.

01:12:31   And if I were going through like medical stuff,

01:12:34   that would be kind of interesting to my doctor,

01:12:36   I would think.

01:12:36   - Yeah, yeah, 69 beats per minute a minute ago.

01:12:40   But now I just took it again, it says I'm at 83.

01:12:42   So I don't know, you got me excited.

01:12:45   I think I get nervous.

01:12:45   I think I get nervous when I look at it

01:12:47   and it makes my heart rate go up.

01:12:49   was six. I was I don't even want to say what mine was I was 95. That's it because I guess I

01:12:56   yeah that's why I'm because I'm excited yeah and I had a big lunch.

01:12:59   I think the workout app is an interesting app too I like it and I like the way that it is like

01:13:09   just brain dead super simple here's some big buttons for different types of workouts

01:13:15   go pick the one that you're gonna start right now tap the button and hit go.

01:13:20   Yeah although I wasn't sure I wasn't sure what to do when I go for a run whether I should tell it

01:13:27   how far I want to go or how long I want to go. Yeah I think like the last well I didn't do either

01:13:33   the last item on the list was just open ended just measure how how much I'm doing and then

01:13:39   we'll call it done. Yeah I think I think there's an interesting combination here and and again

01:13:45   I haven't used a Fitbit or any of those things but I feel like one of the problems that never made me want to use one

01:13:50   Is that they didn't really show you anything you just you know

01:13:53   At least the one that like Amy has it doesn't really have much of a display

01:13:56   It just I don't know like four bars that light up and then you have to plug it in your computer

01:13:59   Or sync it with the iPhone app and then use a different device to check what it thinks you did

01:14:05   whereas I feel like a lot of a

01:14:08   Lot of things with the phone to me are the key to their success is that the phone is both

01:14:14   both sides of the equation.

01:14:17   And two examples are Instagram and like Periscope

01:14:20   and Meerkat where it's the same device

01:14:23   that people are using to shoot the photos

01:14:25   and edit the photos and post the photos

01:14:27   is the same device that everyone else is using

01:14:30   to see the photos.

01:14:31   And I feel like that's the way that the fitness tracking

01:14:35   stuff on the watch to me works.

01:14:36   And I know it doesn't have like everything.

01:14:38   Like it's interesting where they cut it off.

01:14:41   Like I think it shows you like your last workout

01:14:43   but it doesn't show you your whole workout history.

01:14:45   You have to go to the phone app to see your workout history.

01:14:48   But that's because the history

01:14:49   is too much information for the watch.

01:14:50   It's just enough, but it's like,

01:14:52   here's what I think you did today.

01:14:54   - Yeah, and I think that that kind of just speaks

01:14:57   to the whole purpose of the watch in general is just enough

01:15:02   and not too much because too much is just gonna be,

01:15:05   is gonna make people, is gonna turn people off to it.

01:15:09   And I've noticed that just with like the notifications,

01:15:13   - Do you use the Gmail app at all?

01:15:16   - No, I do not. - Or do you just use

01:15:17   Apple Mail?

01:15:17   - I just use Apple Mail.

01:15:19   - So Apple Mail, well, so Sandwiches email

01:15:24   is all run through Google.

01:15:26   And Google, like, you don't get Google push email

01:15:31   working very well through Apple Mail.

01:15:33   So what I do is I use the Gmail app on my phone

01:15:38   to right away push me an alert, you know,

01:15:41   notification that I have new email.

01:15:43   And then when I get that alert,

01:15:45   I know to go into my Apple Mail app

01:15:47   and it'll go and fetch that email.

01:15:49   It's kind of a roundabout way of being obsessive about email

01:15:54   but it works for me.

01:15:55   So I use Gmail as basically like an alert.

01:15:57   And so I've got Gmail alerts on my watch.

01:16:00   And what Gmail does when it notifies you

01:16:03   of a new email on your watch,

01:16:04   is it only gives you a few lines of preview of the message.

01:16:08   Whereas Apple Mail, when it tells you there's a new email,

01:16:12   you can actually scroll through the whole email.

01:16:15   But the weird psychological effect of that is,

01:16:18   because I'm obsessive about email,

01:16:20   if Gmail tells me about I've got a new email

01:16:23   and I can see only the first few lines,

01:16:25   then I know I can then kind of save it for later

01:16:28   and then go back when I have time,

01:16:31   go into my mail program,

01:16:33   and then I know I can respond to it then.

01:16:35   But if it shows me the whole thing,

01:16:38   I think that I have to respond to it right then.

01:16:40   So that's another instance of just enough info

01:16:44   to know to do something later with it.

01:16:47   And this is kind of like that time,

01:16:50   reevaluating your time that people were talking about

01:16:56   early on that the watch kind of affords you

01:17:00   is like the opportunity to take your iPhone out

01:17:03   less and less.

01:17:04   - Yeah, and I know, I've gone back and forth.

01:17:08   That's one of those things where I'm so,

01:17:10   I feel like it's just, I'm lucky that I've had the watch as long as I have, because into me,

01:17:15   and it's like my opinion has changed on it, where at first I thought that it was,

01:17:21   that this whole argument that it's about taking your phone out less, I was like,

01:17:26   I'm not taking my phone out any less. I didn't think I was, but then I thought about it and I

01:17:32   realized I kind of was. It's like, and to me, the difference is, do I want to do something?

01:17:37   If I want to do something, I still go to the phone.

01:17:39   But it's it's like, do I just want to check?

01:17:43   What do I want to check something?

01:17:45   Then I can just look at the watch and I don't know.

01:17:47   There's like a subtle difference there, and I'm sure you know, there's all sorts of things that are sort of gray areas where one.

01:17:52   But if I'm just checking something, it's it's I'm using the watch and I'm not taking the phone out.

01:17:58   So I am taking the phone out, but I'm not using it less like if it's something I really want to do, I'm still going to do it on the on the phone.

01:18:06   Yeah, and you want to do stuff.

01:18:09   I even want to do more stuff with the watch.

01:18:11   That's one of the first things I noticed is that because we're trained to do that, you

01:18:18   check something and then you do something about it right away.

01:18:21   It feels unnatural to check something, have it appear on the watch, and not do something

01:18:26   about it right away.

01:18:27   So you have to kind of get used to that, or at least I did.

01:18:31   it makes me want to be able to do more with the watch but I'm okay that I can't I guess.

01:18:39   But yeah that's the end of that thought.

01:18:42   Well but I feel like email is almost like ground zero for that line of thinking because

01:18:48   and this is the thing that I thought boy that sounds really weird but now that I've had

01:18:51   the watch a month it kind of makes sense is that the watch has your email you know from

01:18:58   mail dot app and on the thing but you can't write so you don't get to respond and you don't get to

01:19:05   craft a new message it's really just read only and it's and i've been using email forever on

01:19:12   all sorts of everything from you know terminals to you know dial up modems and i've never heard

01:19:18   of a read only email client before and it just didn't make any sense to me even though i don't

01:19:23   write that much email anymore compared you know with slack and and instant messaging picking up

01:19:28   up a lot of the smaller messages.

01:19:31   It just didn't make sense to me,

01:19:33   but I kind of think it is,

01:19:35   'cause I think it's exactly that use case

01:19:36   where you said, where it's really,

01:19:38   even though you can read the whole message on the watch,

01:19:40   just in case maybe it is important,

01:19:42   it's really just about those first few lines.

01:19:45   Like, is this something you wanna go deal with right now?

01:19:49   - Yeah.

01:19:49   - And I do think there's an anxiety reduction in that.

01:19:55   - Absolutely, you're exactly right.

01:19:57   It's anxiety reducing.

01:19:59   'Cause what's the alternative?

01:20:00   You get a notification or you get a buzz in your pocket

01:20:03   while you're having a conversation with somebody.

01:20:06   It's rude to check the notification.

01:20:08   So then you have the anxiety of not knowing what it is.

01:20:11   So I think that's it.

01:20:13   That sums it up right there in an instant.

01:20:15   It's just suddenly just from the ability

01:20:19   to turn your wrist 40 degrees up towards you

01:20:24   and glance down at it,

01:20:25   you know that you don't have to pay attention to it.

01:20:27   then you go on with the rest of your conversation.

01:20:31   - Do you know who has a really cool app for,

01:20:33   and part of it is for the phone,

01:20:35   but I feel like the iPhone app is actually pretty good,

01:20:37   is the New York Times.

01:20:38   And I never had the New York Times thing on my phone.

01:20:42   I do read the New York Times on the web a lot,

01:20:44   but I never really use their apps.

01:20:46   But I wanted to test their watch app,

01:20:49   and they had one of the apps that came out

01:20:51   like way, you know, really early,

01:20:54   like the day after I got the review unit.

01:20:56   So it was like really, there weren't that many third party

01:20:59   apps in the app store yet to try, so I wanted to try it.

01:21:02   And the reason why is that they,

01:21:05   unlike every other news organization

01:21:06   I've ever granted temporary permission

01:21:09   to send me notifications for,

01:21:11   they really do only send you notifications

01:21:13   for important news.

01:21:15   So days will go by and they don't send you any notifications

01:21:18   because nothing really happened.

01:21:20   But then, you know, like the earthquake,

01:21:25   the earthquake hit over in Nepal then it's like well that's something I you know that was that

01:21:29   was actually worth you tapping me on the wrist to tell me that it had happened um and I you know um

01:21:37   I don't know where I was going with that well no I mean just once again it's just enough it's just

01:21:42   the important stuff it doesn't need to ping you every time you know whatever that's it says I

01:21:52   - I don't, like I have the breaking news app on my phone.

01:21:54   I have Circa and you can like scroll

01:21:59   through the top five stories and then you're good.

01:22:05   And if you wanna go any deeper, but like,

01:22:07   so here's another question.

01:22:10   Do you find yourself like lying awake at night,

01:22:13   like in bed, you've got your watch on,

01:22:15   you want to like consume more content through the watch

01:22:20   other than because it's a new toy

01:22:22   and you wanna play with it?

01:22:23   - Only in the first few days when I had it,

01:22:26   and that has totally worn off.

01:22:28   Like I don't wanna consume any content on the watch.

01:22:30   Another example, it's very common for me.

01:22:33   I mean, I'm guessing it's probably common

01:22:36   for everybody who listens to podcasts.

01:22:38   This is the whole reason I think people like podcasts,

01:22:41   is that we, as a, you know,

01:22:45   the type of people that you and I are,

01:22:47   we just cannot bear to be bored at all.

01:22:49   for like for 15 seconds.

01:22:51   I cannot, you know, and again, it's, you know,

01:22:53   Louis C.K. has entire bits about, you know,

01:22:57   how this just shows up what's wrong with us.

01:22:59   But like, if I'm in a store and there's two people

01:23:01   ahead of me at the register, I'm taking out my phone

01:23:03   and I'm gonna read Twitter or something

01:23:05   because God forbid I don't have something

01:23:08   to occupy my mind for the next 45 seconds.

01:23:11   It never tempts me to go to the watch.

01:23:14   Like, 'cause the watch isn't a do something, don't bore me.

01:23:18   know like again if I'm taking action I'm I want to go find something not to be

01:23:22   bored by I'd still go to the phone I think to go to the phone like the watch

01:23:27   is for things that you don't even have to think about you know what I mean I

01:23:30   don't know there's like a certain and again you know Apple's using the word

01:23:34   it's an official name of the featured glances but I think it's brilliantly

01:23:39   chosen word hmm what glances do you know that's a good question I feel like I

01:23:45   I would have been thinking about it,

01:23:47   like I've been waiting for the other watch I ordered to come

01:23:50   and I was thinking that I would set it up differently

01:23:52   and probably have a lot fewer glances.

01:23:54   I seem to have a lot and I kind of feel like glances are

01:23:57   like you really should just make them your favorites

01:24:00   and then that's like the quickest way

01:24:02   to get to those things that you do

01:24:04   because then you don't have to go to that home screen

01:24:05   where there's these tiny little buttons.

01:24:06   You just swipe up and swipe over and there's your glance.

01:24:10   - Yeah, I mean when I first saw the idea of glances,

01:24:14   I thought that it was supposed to,

01:24:15   you're supposed to consider it like your doc or something.

01:24:18   - Yeah.

01:24:19   - Those are your shortcuts.

01:24:20   But I think that's not what they intended for it to be

01:24:23   because theoretically you can access any of your apps

01:24:27   pretty easily anyway.

01:24:28   You don't need a shortcut.

01:24:30   I think it's just for like the little bits of information

01:24:34   that you want accessible to you very quickly

01:24:36   without having to launch the app.

01:24:38   That's what I think.

01:24:39   But I don't have too many of those things.

01:24:41   I mean like power, you know battery power is one of them.

01:24:45   What do I have?

01:24:48   - Yeah but I find with the battery power,

01:24:49   now maybe it's different for you

01:24:50   and I would be interested to hear that.

01:24:52   Like right now, mine is at 76%.

01:24:55   So and we're recording at, it's nine o'clock Eastern.

01:24:59   So I mean it's, I'm mostly through the day.

01:25:02   - Oh that's pretty good.

01:25:03   - Yeah.

01:25:04   - Mine's at 59 but I pretty much obsessively like

01:25:09   lift my wrist every time I need one.

01:25:10   but I think that's a 38 42 factor, you know, like Joanna Stern and I were talking about it like

01:25:15   Apple's promised battery life is all for the 38 and then they just say in real small print

01:25:21   The 42 will get longer battery life in most contexts

01:25:24   And so but they don't say how much more because they don't want people to feel bad

01:25:27   About their 38. They just want you to get the one that's going to fit fit you right and I really think it's

01:25:33   Sorry, well, I just think that the battery life is not an issue

01:25:37   Yeah, it's not it's not going to screw anybody at the end of the day

01:25:40   like when they need to do whatever thing you get used to every day every night

01:25:46   you click in the charger and and that's and that's all you need to do it's like

01:25:52   yeah like you like you said you never have to think about it and there are so

01:25:55   many things like that that you don't have to think about and I think it's

01:26:01   great it's just becoming more and the tech is becoming more and more seamless

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01:28:41   - Well last week you made me buy an automatic

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01:28:49   - Dingus for your car.

01:28:51   How's your dad?

01:28:51   Is your dad still over in--

01:28:54   - He's back, he got back two days ago.

01:28:57   Thanks for asking.

01:28:58   - I was worried about him.

01:29:00   - Yeah, he got out.

01:29:01   So he was leading a crew of volunteers

01:29:06   doing a dental clinic.

01:29:07   He does that every year in Nepal.

01:29:10   He goes to India as well and they do Guatemala.

01:29:14   And so he was leading a crew in Nepal.

01:29:17   He had been there for a few days when the earthquake hit.

01:29:20   And it basically sort of shut down the building,

01:29:25   damaged a lot of the building where they do the clinic,

01:29:28   so they couldn't do the clinic.

01:29:30   But then it was just about getting all of these volunteers

01:29:32   out safely and flights were shut down for many days.

01:29:37   And then once everybody was safe and out,

01:29:40   with very minimal communication with the rest of my family,

01:29:45   we didn't quite know what was going on.

01:29:49   He managed to get out and landed a couple days ago

01:29:53   and he was on the news and I haven't watched it yet.

01:29:56   I have a link in my inbox.

01:29:57   So that'll be fun.

01:29:59   You can put that in the show notes.

01:30:01   - That's an amazing story and it's a great thing

01:30:04   that your dad does.

01:30:05   Your dad was a dentist or is a dentist now.

01:30:09   - He's retired, he was a kid's dentist, spaceship dentist.

01:30:12   His spaceships were all basically sort of pseudo Star Wars

01:30:17   themed with like mechanical doors, automatic doors.

01:30:22   - In other words, that's what you as a patient,

01:30:25   as when you would sit in like a little starship captain's

01:30:28   chair and then you'd get your teeth cleaned.

01:30:30   Is that what you're saying?

01:30:31   - Yeah, there were video monitors everywhere.

01:30:33   Old school, '80s video monitors.

01:30:35   There was like Starfield.

01:30:37   I think he had like real production designers

01:30:39   do the interiors of the offices

01:30:41   when he came up with this idea.

01:30:43   And everything was in that light gray

01:30:45   kind of Star Wars in inside spaceship yeah aesthetic it's pretty neat as a kid

01:30:50   and my robots and things yeah it makes being a dentist cool I mean honestly but

01:30:55   anyway what a great story glad to hear that he's okay okay well of course I

01:31:02   love your dad I haven't seen him yeah I know he used to go to Mac world right

01:31:07   here this is like the coolest dad ever spaceship Dennis chairs and took you to

01:31:12   mackerel. Yeah he's a good guy. I'll convince him to go again so he can come

01:31:19   out. He was um when the earthquake hit he was like he was getting acupuncture done

01:31:25   and he had like electrodes hooked up to his his feet and he had his eyes closed

01:31:32   and then opened his eyes and noticed that the whole world was shaking and

01:31:36   things were falling off the shelf. Everybody was running out of the office

01:31:40   where he was and he just ended up running out of the office with the electrodes strapped to his feet.

01:31:45   Darrell Bock No way.

01:31:46   PAUL Yeah.

01:31:47   Darrell Bock I thought you were going to say that he thought that maybe the electrodes were too

01:31:51   powerful. Like maybe it was just…

01:31:52   PAUL Yeah. Who knows what goes through your mind.

01:31:54   Darrell Bock I don't know.

01:31:55   PAUL It's not a natural thing for a human to experience.

01:31:57   Darrell Bock No, definitely not. I mean, and even though you guys as Californians are probably more

01:32:02   accustomed to thinking about earthquakes. But I don't know. It would drive me – it would be the

01:32:09   last thing that would occur to me. I would be like what the hell is going on and then like a minute

01:32:13   later someone say that was an earthquake dummy and I'd be like oh of course but that doesn't even

01:32:18   occur to me. Yeah no I mean it was huge it was huge it was huge. All right here's an idea that's

01:32:25   been popping up in my head with the watch I'm gonna hear what you think is as we go and trying

01:32:30   to think zigzagging between you know nitty-gritty details on the watch today and and big picture

01:32:36   thoughts like what's it going to be like in five years is like one thing I can't imagine

01:32:40   not or having on the watch because I can't figure out how they would how they would do the angles to

01:32:46   make it practical is how would they put a camera on it. Yeah I mean like it's interesting you you

01:32:51   said that because I think that's the number one missing thing right now hardware wise and I did

01:32:59   to me it would be it would be pretty natural I don't think it would be a front-facing camera

01:33:05   that like looks up at you because I think what the main use case of it is that you want to shoot

01:33:12   a picture of something else besides your face. It's not a FaceTime camera. It's a, you want to

01:33:19   avoid that seven seconds delay between reaching, you know, seeing something you want to take a

01:33:24   picture of, reaching your pocket, launching the camera app, shooting the picture. You want to

01:33:29   to avoid that so you just raise your arm and the camera is pointing outwards and there's

01:33:35   your camera and I feel like that cuts the experience down to maybe what two and a half

01:33:39   three seconds and I can already think of a number of times you know I have a two-year-old

01:33:45   you can never know what you never know what amazing funny thing he's gonna do next and

01:33:53   there's there there have already been lots of times when I when I've thought if I only

01:33:58   I could raise my wrist and shoot that. Yeah, well, I think that, you know, for reasons trivial,

01:34:04   you know, like, hey, I want to be able to shoot my kid or my cat, to the deadly serious. Like,

01:34:11   like the current world where ordinary citizens have a phone with them within seconds of being

01:34:19   launched at all times has changed the relationship with the police all around this country. Like,

01:34:26   a big part of what's going on with the protests in Baltimore and other cities is a lot of

01:34:33   ways based on footage that's come out that people have shot on their phones.

01:34:38   And if news is breaking, it's just getting to be at this point where it just seems like

01:34:43   we've always got a camera with us.

01:34:45   And—

01:34:46   Daishi T

01:34:46   And the lens can be anywhere.

01:34:49   The lens is like sort of the easy part.

01:34:51   It's the sensors a little bit more difficult than the capture mechanism and the storage

01:34:57   is more difficult than that.

01:34:59   But I feel like it won't be too long where the lens is really on everybody's wrist.

01:35:05   So where do you think they would put it though?

01:35:07   Oh, I have no idea.

01:35:10   I am not an industrial design person.

01:35:14   was a Samsung phone or not phone watch that that that had it built into the wrist strap

01:35:20   and yeah absolutely and what my experience with that and I love telling this story is

01:35:27   I was I was shooting a commercial where I was on camera and what they do when with wardrobe

01:35:34   and continuity and everything is the second assistant director it's their job to come

01:35:38   over and take a picture of you after every scene so you know they know exactly what your

01:35:42   wardrobe looked like. And so our second AD was all day throughout the shoot coming over

01:35:47   with his little point-and-shoot camera, snapping a photo, saving it for continuity. And then

01:35:56   towards the end of the day, he said, "Oh, let me grab you real quick, take a picture."

01:36:01   He didn't have his camera with him, so he held up his Samsung, what is it, gear?

01:36:06   Yeah, well, I think they have a couple phones called gear.

01:36:10   So he lifted up his Samsung watch and he snaps a photo and says okay we're good.

01:36:15   And I was like whoa I know that the Apple watch isn't going to do that but I already

01:36:20   want it to.

01:36:21   Right.

01:36:22   I want the feature but I know that they're not going to build it and I can see why Samsung

01:36:26   put it where they did on the strap.

01:36:29   But it made the strap everybody you know a lot of the reviewers said it you know the

01:36:32   strap is not comfortable because it's you know it's got electronic circuitry between

01:36:37   the side of your wrist and the watch face makes it thicker and it defeats what's clearly a central

01:36:44   part of Apple Watch's design which is this idea of band swap ability. So I wouldn't go there but

01:36:53   I can see why ergonomically they put it there. Anyway, the tension that I see is that it seems

01:36:57   to me like the tension is I expect to have a camera with me at all times but I also now feel

01:37:03   like soon enough I'll be able to go with just my Apple watch and you know yeah

01:37:08   but yet then I wouldn't have a camera with me so then I feel like therefore

01:37:12   dot dot dot they have to add a camera eventually yeah well I mean it's gonna

01:37:16   be iterative and the first version of the camera on the watch if there is one

01:37:20   is gonna look like garbage just like the first you know the first camera on the

01:37:25   iPhone looked pretty bad do you ever go back through your photos library and

01:37:29   and look at the first iPhone pictures you took.

01:37:33   - Yeah, yeah, totally.

01:37:34   - And they look terrible.

01:37:35   And that's okay.

01:37:36   And there wasn't a front-facing camera at first.

01:37:39   And that's okay.

01:37:40   And it didn't shoot video.

01:37:41   - Yeah, not shooting video.

01:37:43   Not shooting video is one that every time it comes up now,

01:37:45   I go back and I go back and I'm like, wait, is that right?

01:37:49   I gotta double check that.

01:37:50   And I go back. - Yeah, me too.

01:37:51   - And I go back and double check.

01:37:52   And it's like, holy shit, it did not shoot video.

01:37:55   It's such an integral part of the product now

01:37:59   that we would never be without,

01:38:01   that it doesn't make sense that they would ever

01:38:02   ship something without that.

01:38:04   And you just have to wonder how many of those things

01:38:07   are not in the watch right now.

01:38:08   - Right.

01:38:10   Yeah, I don't know.

01:38:10   I feel like there's gotta be some way that they could do it.

01:38:13   I don't know if it would be.

01:38:14   Maybe it would be a front-facing camera,

01:38:16   so you could use it for face time.

01:38:18   But then if you turn your wrist away,

01:38:20   you wouldn't be able to see the framing.

01:38:23   You would just point your wrist at what you're shooting

01:38:25   and hit the digital crown and it would snap a photo

01:38:28   and then you could turn your wrist back

01:38:30   to see what it captured.

01:38:32   - Yeah, that seems like it would work.

01:38:35   I mean, we're not all framing up.

01:38:37   - Right.

01:38:38   - Our iPhone snaps pretty, very specifically anyway.

01:38:41   - Yeah, I don't know.

01:38:42   I mean, that's the sort of thing where I could be off base

01:38:44   and maybe there'll never be a camera on it,

01:38:45   but I feel like, I don't know,

01:38:46   seems to me like everything gets a camera eventually.

01:38:49   - It does and everything gets smaller

01:38:52   and faster and everything.

01:38:55   I loved that part of what of yours and Molt's conversation

01:38:58   where you were talking about the iPad and the rev cycles

01:39:02   and your reasoning behind, was this your reasoning

01:39:06   or was this somebody else's that you read?

01:39:08   The reasoning behind people not updating as much.

01:39:12   - It was sort of what I was thinking

01:39:14   but it was better put into words by that one comment

01:39:18   on Dr. Drang's blog, like a reader of his blog.

01:39:23   that was so smart I mean so you can recap it if you want I probably want to

01:39:28   his case probably still won't do as succinct a job as that guy did but it

01:39:32   was the basic gist was that we're only five years into this you know the first

01:39:38   iPad was five years ago so we're still in the first upgrade cycle and seems

01:39:42   like for a lot of people on iPad lasts you know four or five years and so we

01:39:46   still haven't gotten to the point where you kind of know how many people should

01:39:50   be you know if Apple is doing a good job with making new products every year how

01:39:55   many people should be buying one every year because their people are still on

01:39:59   their first one and they're pleased with it yeah and when why wouldn't they be it

01:40:03   does it does pretty much what what you needed to do which is it you can browse

01:40:08   web you can watch video you can do some creative kind of stuff and the processor

01:40:16   hasn't gotten that much faster and yeah Roxana's dad still uses the version 1

01:40:23   iPad that we that I had originally bought and we gave to him because all he

01:40:28   wants is to watch YouTube videos all day of like classical music and architecture

01:40:33   videos and stuff and it does it does a trick for him and I and it's such a is

01:40:39   it weird to say it's kind of like a secondary device it's not no I don't

01:40:42   think it's weird to say I think it's you know it is what it is you know and I

01:40:46   I think we're going to get, as time goes on,

01:40:48   we're gonna get more and more secondary tertiary,

01:40:51   we're just gonna surround ourselves with little displays.

01:40:54   You know, and that's what the watch is another one, I think.

01:40:56   Is that, I mean--

01:40:58   - Well it could be, but it also could be a primary.

01:41:00   Like I think that the second it gets a feature

01:41:03   that is a must-have feature that version one doesn't have,

01:41:06   I think it'd be, it's no longer a secondary device

01:41:10   and it's a primary device.

01:41:11   Like even like just consider what would happen

01:41:15   if the next, if maybe two years from now,

01:41:18   it's got a camera and people start seeing

01:41:21   that people who have just bought the new version two watch

01:41:25   are getting all these cool cameras or whatever.

01:41:28   Argument's sake, it's some other feature

01:41:31   that you can only do with version two.

01:41:33   - Right.

01:41:34   - And like, you know, the fact that the iPad got a lens

01:41:38   on it was not that killer app that the iPad needed

01:41:41   in order for people to buy more of them.

01:41:44   I think you can make an argument that the iPhone 1 suffered from enough feature constraint

01:41:54   that version 2 was where people started to really buy into it and it allowed them to

01:42:02   do more things.

01:42:04   And how many people did you see using a version 1 iPhone even three years after the iPhone

01:42:09   launched?

01:42:10   Oh, all the time.

01:42:11   Oh, really?

01:42:12   Well no actually I guess I would say the opposite now that I think about it.

01:42:17   Well I mean my question was kind of leading in the opposite direction.

01:42:20   I feel like there weren't that many people.

01:42:21   I feel like the iPhone 1 kind of disappeared quickly.

01:42:24   I could be wrong.

01:42:25   Yeah and because they didn't in the grand scheme of things they didn't really sell that

01:42:29   many in the first place.

01:42:30   I guess so yeah you're right and it could be just like a parallel model with the watch.

01:42:36   Do you know what made me jump on that and say yes was that there's one teacher at Jonas's

01:42:39   school who was using an original iPhone until like last year and that's so cool it's a beautiful

01:42:45   it is a beautiful device it's gorgeous i love the device and you know i i just don't think that he

01:42:52   was you know he cared you know about the technology or whatever but it was he just shot to mind is yes

01:42:57   i saw that one teacher who's still using an old iphone uh yeah but no i mean like the argument i

01:43:04   I was trying to make is that the iPhone 1 lacked so many features that then came out

01:43:11   in iterative versions that it became obsolete pretty quickly.

01:43:17   That's what I was going with.

01:43:20   And so that didn't happen with the iPad, but I think it will happen with the watch.

01:43:24   I think the watch will start to get new things that only later versions of the watch can

01:43:29   have.

01:43:30   you know, I think medical sensors and stuff like that too, you know, who knows what it'll be

01:43:35   We I wouldn't know I probably would not have predicted

01:43:37   It was the camera back then because I don't think our expectation was so low for cell phone cameras that I thought

01:43:44   Well, of course these pictures aren't great. It's a cell phone camera and it never not weird

01:43:48   Yeah that the landscape for video for mobile video back then was the flip camera. Yeah, I was just thinking about that because when the first

01:43:56   iPhone with video did come out

01:43:59   I remember comparing it against the Flip,

01:44:02   and the Flip still had better picture.

01:44:05   And you think, well, of course it had better picture.

01:44:07   It's a dedicated camera.

01:44:08   Whereas the writing was on the wall

01:44:10   that they just could not compete with Apple in the long run,

01:44:13   and the sensor technology is advancing it.

01:44:15   It's such an amazing clip that it didn't take long

01:44:18   for there to be an iPhone that blew the Flip away.

01:44:22   And then, just quality-wise,

01:44:24   let alone in terms of only having one device in your pocket

01:44:27   and already being on the internet, et cetera.

01:44:30   - Yeah.

01:44:31   - No, but we have tons of videos

01:44:35   from the earlier years of Jonas's life

01:44:38   that were all shot on flips.

01:44:40   I don't know, I do know where the files are,

01:44:42   but it feels like a bygone era.

01:44:47   - It does, and because,

01:44:50   I feel like there's no longer this idea of scarcity.

01:44:55   Well, I don't know, it's an interesting question.

01:44:56   Do you feel like when you're rolling video on your iPhone,

01:45:00   do you feel like storage is scarce

01:45:02   and you wanna keep it to it,

01:45:03   like you wanna cut the clip short?

01:45:05   Obviously you're not gonna shoot a two hour video

01:45:07   of piano recital on your iPhone or something like that.

01:45:11   - No, I don't do stuff like that.

01:45:13   But I don't-- - Most of the clips

01:45:13   are gonna be like a minute, two minutes at the most.

01:45:16   - Yeah, well, the video story for us is weird

01:45:20   because, so Jonas was born in 2004

01:45:26   And so for, in January, and so for Christmas that year,

01:45:31   my mother-in-law got us a Panasonic Mini DV camera.

01:45:36   She wanted, you know, she was like,

01:45:37   "I wanna buy you a camera, you know, I want, you know,

01:45:39   "lots of video." - That's right.

01:45:40   - It was wonderful, and you know, she said,

01:45:42   "What, you tell me what to get."

01:45:43   And I got a, you know, I don't know, you know,

01:45:46   like a consumer, you know, dad,

01:45:47   it was a dad camera from 2004.

01:45:49   I thought it was cool how small Mini DV was, you know.

01:45:53   But then, you know, it's like, so first few years of his life, like 2004, 2005, 2006 especially,

01:46:01   it's all shot on mini DV tapes.

01:46:05   And I, because they were tapes, then you, to me, once you get over halfway done with

01:46:11   your tape, you're like, well, I'll just keep shooting because, you know, it'll say,

01:46:16   you know, like the little sticker on the tape that says Mother's Day 2006 or something

01:46:20   like that.

01:46:21   I might as well just shoot the rest of the tape though because the next time I want to shoot something

01:46:24   I want to start with a fresh tape. Yeah

01:46:26   So I think that those early years of his life where I was shooting mini TV

01:46:30   there's a lot of filler footage where I just let the camera go because I figured I'd rather just use up the tape and

01:46:37   then the next era is the flip era where most of the videos were shot with the flip and then

01:46:43   They're the clips are like just as long as you want them to be and it's you know

01:46:48   We don't need to we don't need footage of every single present being open on Christmas. This is good

01:46:53   We got the one where he you know was most excited and put it away

01:46:56   Yeah, and did you think that when you had a flip did you think of those videos as files? No, no

01:47:02   Not really, but I was always glad though that they would be more easily put on a hard drive

01:47:08   You know and moved from computer to computer than the DVD the mini TV tapes, which I've still never really dealt with

01:47:14   Yeah

01:47:16   I'm just so thankful now that we're moving to the side. Yeah

01:47:19   cliche but the era of the cloud and that literally, you know, it took five days for

01:47:25   everything to sync when I migrated to photos, but my

01:47:30   25,000 photos and my

01:47:32   2000 videos that I've shot are all somewhere protected in the cloud and I never have to worry about cassettes

01:47:39   I never have to worry about

01:47:40   You know obsolete

01:47:42   disk formats hard drives all that stuff is just like it's somebody else's problem now and

01:47:48   And it's not there's no barrier to going and recalling it

01:47:51   I don't need a deck to play all that stuff. I don't need a special cable, right? It's just it's just there

01:47:57   I think that's a beautiful beautiful thing that I

01:47:59   mean there a lot of lip service is paid to it because everybody's you know, the cloud is is what it's the

01:48:07   It's the golden

01:48:10   I can't even think of the words to express what I was trying to say.

01:48:15   The cloud is so whatever, it's just, it's trite at this point, but it's very real.

01:48:21   Like that data storage has sort of disappeared and we don't have to worry about it anymore.

01:48:26   Yeah, I like the way, to me it feels like magic when I take, and I take more screenshots

01:48:30   with my stupid watch than most people because I'm thinking about tweeting things like about

01:48:34   a stupid UI or maybe thinking about it for an article or whatever.

01:48:38   But it's really cool to me that when you do it and you take a screenshot, it just shows

01:48:41   up on your phone.

01:48:43   And then I was like texting them from my phone to myself or air dropping them, air dropping

01:48:49   them to my Mac.

01:48:50   And then I thought, I thought, you know what, I bet they just show up in the new Photos

01:48:53   app.

01:48:54   And I went to the new Photos app and there, you know, it says today and there's all your

01:48:58   screenshots.

01:48:59   They just show up.

01:49:00   You don't have to sit there and airplay them around, air drop them around to yourself.

01:49:04   You just wait a couple seconds and it just shows up in photos quicker than if you had

01:49:09   sent it.

01:49:10   It's there.

01:49:11   I mean, obviously images are heavier data than something like a contact, but you remember

01:49:17   that feeling of like when iCloud first got its shit together and you could add a new

01:49:22   contact on your phone, it would show up in your contacts app in your Mac instantaneously

01:49:27   or a calendar or something.

01:49:28   That's very lightweight data.

01:49:29   It was still impressive that they got it all working, especially after MobileMe.

01:49:33   But now that the fact that they can do that with images, which 10 years ago we would have

01:49:39   just like, everything would have choked instantaneously.

01:49:43   I think that's incredible.

01:49:47   It's really fun to watch and I think that the one thing that disappoints me is that

01:49:51   Apple hasn't done a great job of educating people on the fact that it exists and preparing

01:49:59   them for what it means with everything that everybody's like constantly collecting with

01:50:05   their devices.

01:50:06   I still kind of feel like Apple's nickel and diamond people on the cost.

01:50:09   I feel like the free tier could be significantly higher.

01:50:13   Like I don't mind paying four bucks a month or whatever I am for 200 gigabytes or whatever.

01:50:18   But I kind of feel like the free tier is way too stingy.

01:50:21   Like there's no way it covers everybody's photos and videos.

01:50:25   And then –

01:50:26   Yeah.

01:50:27   I bet they open that up pretty quickly though.

01:50:28   Yeah, I think so too that's but it seems like that sort of thing that that they'll just keep every WWDC

01:50:33   They'll announce new pricing and they'll always by the time May rolls around will always be bitching about you know

01:50:39   How much it cost because it was prices were set a year ago

01:50:42   All right. Let me take one last break and then we'll do the last stretch of the show

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01:55:21   good friends at fracture well you know what it makes me the thing that makes me

01:55:25   happy about so many of these sponsors is that they come back and you know it's

01:55:30   like to me if I I love new sponsors too and so the rails tutorial you know

01:55:34   The thing is great first time that they sponsored the show. I hope they come back

01:55:38   Hope they have great success

01:55:39   but the fact that the other three sponsors

01:55:41   Hello was here a couple months ago and they you know

01:55:43   Like they only signed up for one the first time and then they were so happy with the results

01:55:46   They sold so many pillows. I mean, which is a crazy thing for me to say like I I

01:55:50   I could definitely like 10 15 years ago. Imagine a world where I had some kind of talk show

01:55:56   I wouldn't have known to call it a podcast at the time

01:55:58   But I could have imagined doing it and I could have imagined that the way that I did it was by selling ads

01:56:03   You know because that seems to be how shows always did work and probably always will I?

01:56:08   Could not have imagined that like one of the happy sponsors of the show was selling pillows

01:56:14   Right, I just doesn't it just I would not have occurred to me. But anyway, it's pretty cool

01:56:20   I mean, yeah, however, anybody can do any kind of business they want to know

01:56:24   hover has been a sponsor of this show as long as the show has had

01:56:29   Sponsors like years and years and years to some level of regularity, you know, at least every quarter

01:56:35   They've they've sponsored a couple episodes

01:56:36   So I mean it I and I sincerely mean that they're my good friends because they've you know

01:56:42   Been part of my business for a long time and I think I truly think they have a great product

01:56:47   It's super cool

01:56:49   Let's bring it home. But what are your last thoughts on the watch?

01:56:51   What do you what do you want to talk about that? We haven't talked to about yet

01:56:54   Well, I mean just we talked about the future a little bit

01:56:59   Mean I said the camera what do you what else do you think that the watch has in?

01:57:04   In two or three years that it doesn't have now well

01:57:07   I can't figure out how they'll do it, but I can't it to me. It's gotta gain its own networking

01:57:13   But then you know so you so you don't need an iPhone eventually is that what you're saying like yeah

01:57:19   But it's I'm not quite sure you know

01:57:21   Maybe it's just Wi-Fi

01:57:23   I would probably would be at first probably the first step to that would be to have true Wi-Fi

01:57:28   And I know that it this gets complicated because the watch does support Wi-Fi at a certain level

01:57:33   But it's really just using like that back channel Wi-Fi to stay in contact with your phone while you're on the same network

01:57:39   So like your phone can be all the way

01:57:41   On the fourth floor and you're down in the basement

01:57:44   You know getting clothes out of the dryer and it's still connected because it's on the Wi-Fi but your phone

01:57:49   I mean your watch doesn't get on Wi-Fi like if your phone isn't with you period that's really cool

01:57:55   I didn't realize that that's how that worked. I because I'd heard that it had Wi-Fi by right because Bluetooth

01:58:01   I the gist of it is I think Bluetooth is a practical range of about 30 feet and

01:58:06   You know, I think it gets kind of sketchy at that, but it definitely is true

01:58:11   I've I haven't some people have asked like have I tested exactly how far away the phone can be now because I don't do reviews

01:58:16   like that

01:58:17   like I'm not gonna sit there with a tape measure and

01:58:19   Measure whether I get text messages at 25 feet and do I get them at 26 feet and stuff like that?

01:58:24   But I've definitely had the phone way more than 30 feet away inside my house and I still

01:58:29   get text messages and stuff like that.

01:58:32   And that's so smart because the only places you're going to be that far away from your

01:58:36   phone in the first place are places where you know the Wi-Fi.

01:58:39   You have – you're on the Wi-Fi network and it's a friendly place.

01:58:43   Otherwise you're outside of a network and you're worried about everybody stealing

01:58:48   your stuff.

01:58:49   So everything's together.

01:58:50   Yeah.

01:58:51   So I don't know how the business of it would work because even if you buy a cellular

01:58:54   You still have to pay at least, you know, like 10, 15 bucks a month to get some kind

01:58:59   of thing.

01:59:01   And nobody wants to keep spending 10, 15 bucks a month.

01:59:04   But there's got to be some kind of way, I think, that once they can shrink a cellular

01:59:08   antenna and fit it in a watch and not have it, you know, decrease the battery to less

01:59:13   than a day, that it'll have independent cellular.

01:59:16   Well, is it okay to – is it fair to say that I don't really want that?

01:59:21   Like I don't – yeah.

01:59:22   I feel like if I stepped back to 2002,

01:59:25   when we were hooking our iPods up through Firewire

01:59:29   to our Macs in order to manage the libraries on them,

01:59:34   if you asked me, would you like,

01:59:36   if you could just have music on your iPod,

01:59:39   you didn't need to do it through your Mac,

01:59:41   or even the iPhone, you know,

01:59:43   like the iPhone you still needed to connect to your Mac

01:59:45   at the beginning.

01:59:46   And you asked me like, would you want that to not happen?

01:59:49   So you could just do everything you want.

01:59:50   I'd probably say the same.

01:59:51   I'd probably say, no, I'm good.

01:59:54   I like keeping everything on my Mac

01:59:55   and then just managing it there.

01:59:57   - Yeah, I think you're underestimating.

02:00:00   I don't think it's because, and again,

02:00:01   it's not because I think that you wanna do a lot

02:00:04   on your watch without the phone.

02:00:06   'Cause again, I don't think that's ever gonna change.

02:00:08   But I do think though that you should be able

02:00:10   to just not worry about how close you are to your phone.

02:00:13   - Sure. - Like if you wanted to,

02:00:15   you know, and for exercising, I think that's a huge one,

02:00:17   is that you don't have to have your stupid phone

02:00:20   strapped to your arm in a band or whatever.

02:00:23   And that you can just go for a run for five miles

02:00:26   and if an important notification comes in,

02:00:27   you're still gonna get it.

02:00:29   So I think it's gotta happen eventually,

02:00:31   but I don't know, you'd have to switch to some kind of plan

02:00:33   where everything is sort of a la carte.

02:00:35   You know, you just sign up, you give Verizon $100 a month

02:00:38   and you get all of your devices.

02:00:40   It sort of works like that with the family plan now, but.

02:00:43   - Yeah, I could see it, I could see that.

02:00:45   - I know, 'cause I'm not gonna, I almost missed it,

02:00:47   but GPS is another one.

02:00:49   and I know that the people who run and bicycle are,

02:00:52   that's like the number one thing

02:00:53   that they feel like this first one's missing.

02:00:56   - That makes sense.

02:00:57   I mean, the first iPhone didn't have GPS

02:00:59   and it felt like you had to do this bullshit triangulating

02:01:02   to get your location on a map, which seemed like a jip.

02:01:07   But I feel like the, it's not a concern for me.

02:01:10   I'm not an avid sportsman, so maybe that's why.

02:01:14   but I have GPS, pretty accurate GPS on my phone.

02:01:19   So I don't think anybody's sweating.

02:01:21   - Yeah, but the exercise,

02:01:23   the people who are really into fitness,

02:01:25   they wanna go without the phone.

02:01:26   They wanna just, 'cause the watch is so much better.

02:01:28   Then you don't have this, you know.

02:01:30   There's just no good way to run with the phone on, really.

02:01:35   And they just wanna go and do it.

02:01:37   Without GPS, they feel like they can't,

02:01:40   because there's so many of these apps for bicycling

02:01:43   where they have like, they already have like three years

02:01:46   of like every single bike ride they've had,

02:01:48   they have an exact map of where they've gone.

02:01:51   And they don't wanna lose it.

02:01:51   Same way that we were talking before about with the watch,

02:01:53   where now that you've got the watch on for a week

02:01:55   and you've got like this week worth of activity things,

02:01:57   you wanna keep wearing the watch tomorrow

02:01:59   because you don't wanna lose that.

02:02:01   - Skip the day, yeah, skip the day.

02:02:03   - But they've already got,

02:02:04   they're already used to having that GPS data.

02:02:07   - Well, I keep my phone in the little fanny pack.

02:02:10   Like they make these like really slim profile

02:02:12   fanny packs that you can wear when you're running.

02:02:16   Don't laugh at me.

02:02:17   Don't laugh at Jon Gruber.

02:02:19   Really cool fanny packs is what you're saying.

02:02:21   Well you can't even, it's very low profile, you can't even see it under the sports bra.

02:02:27   Okay so like Cable tweeted the other day, was it Cable or maybe somebody tweeted, regardless,

02:02:41   He had a waiter ask him if I saw his watch and said oh you have the new iPhone watch.

02:02:48   And I thought that was kind of fascinating that it's I mean a waiter asked me yesterday

02:02:52   oh can I see your iWatch can you can you show me what it does.

02:02:57   iWatch makes sense whatever that's the go-to.

02:03:00   iPhone watch made a different kind of sense because that means that people are some people

02:03:05   are just naturally associated with the hub being the computer that it sort of connects

02:03:10   to being the iPhone. I think that's kind of cool on top of which it kind of looks like

02:03:16   an iPhone 6.

02:03:18   It, it, yeah, and I think it kind of, it does, it is an interesting way to say it and it

02:03:24   does sort of, I wonder whether inside Apple how much they were worried about the fact

02:03:31   that they're selling it as a thing you have to have with an iPhone. You know, that it,

02:03:36   Is that a bitter pill for people to swallow that this thing really needs to be within

02:03:40   30 feet of your iPhone at all times to have functionality?

02:03:45   I don't think so.

02:03:46   I think I could be wrong, but I think people would look at – people like myself would

02:03:50   look at it as an advantage.

02:03:53   I think it's awesome.

02:03:54   It's like a tetherless tether.

02:03:59   What it just means to me is that it makes my watch that much powerful.

02:04:01   my imbues my watch with the power of an iPhone which has been working for eight years to

02:04:07   be as powerful as it is now.

02:04:09   It really, the one thing that really struck me early on was how much the watch wants to

02:04:14   be in contact with your iPhone. Because as soon as it's out of range of your iPhone,

02:04:17   like if you power your iPhone off, you get like what in my opinion is almost an ugly

02:04:22   icon. Not ugly like that it was poorly drawn, but because it's like a red, you know what

02:04:27   I mean? It's like up where the notification.

02:04:29   No, what are you talking, which one are you talking about?

02:04:31   So if you turn your phone off, the watch gets a little icon up at the top, a little red.

02:04:36   It's like a little red phone with a line through it, like it's saying I can't find the phone

02:04:41   that I'm paired with.

02:04:43   And there's no way to get rid of that icon until you're back in range of the phone.

02:04:48   And it's just – at first I thought, wow, they really made that glaring.

02:04:54   But then I realized using it that it's because the watch really does want to be within range

02:04:59   of the phone at all times.

02:05:00   it's it's like lacking in oxygen when it's not not doesn't have the phone

02:05:05   totally how cool is that pairing process of pointing your phone at your watch I

02:05:12   think it's so great and I think I you know I'm guilty as charged that I

02:05:17   haven't sung it to praises enough but I feel like it's unheralded how good the

02:05:22   pairing process is incredible beautiful could have been a QR code thank God it

02:05:27   wasn't just like magical.

02:05:30   I can't think of a...

02:05:32   The last time I had an experience with tech

02:05:35   that was that magical is with the first time I slid

02:05:37   the power on the first iPhone

02:05:40   and it showed me a picture of the world.

02:05:42   I was like, holy crap, this is a magical thing.

02:05:45   That unboxing experience of point your phone

02:05:48   at the weird magic eye type graphic on your watch,

02:05:56   That was just some smart consumer technology.

02:05:59   - Yeah, and as it sinks the first time,

02:06:03   to me the animation is just gorgeous.

02:06:06   It's very simple, but they sweat so many details

02:06:11   in that process.

02:06:12   So there's a watch on the phone,

02:06:16   like a picture of a watch on the phone

02:06:19   as the phone app is syncing with the watch,

02:06:21   and the animation on the fake watch

02:06:24   that's shown on the phone, it stays in perfect sync

02:06:27   with the animation, the progress spinner on the watch itself.

02:06:32   - It's so cool, it's just signaling to you

02:06:36   that these two things are connected.

02:06:38   And I feel like maybe even a perfect way of summing up

02:06:43   or capping the show is, you told me,

02:06:47   when we were texting back and forth,

02:06:49   when you had the watch and I didn't yet,

02:06:52   And you told, and you said, I realized what,

02:06:54   and it's sort of, you wrote this piece about it anyway,

02:06:56   but you said, I realized what the phone is,

02:06:58   or what the watch is.

02:07:00   What did you say?

02:07:01   You know what I mean? - It's just a really cool

02:07:02   digital watch.

02:07:03   - Yeah, it's a cool ass digital watch.

02:07:05   It's like the most sophisticated digital watch

02:07:09   you've ever seen.

02:07:10   And you know, it does,

02:07:14   and I think the most futuristic thing probably

02:07:19   in that old world context of what is a watch

02:07:22   is like that you can make phone calls with it.

02:07:24   I think that's pretty awesome.

02:07:26   It's not something that I would put into practice

02:07:30   hardly ever.

02:07:31   I think it's awesome that my watch rings

02:07:32   when I get a new call and I can decline it from there

02:07:35   but I would never like, especially in front of people,

02:07:37   I would never like take a call on my watch

02:07:40   and just start talking to somebody.

02:07:42   It seems like a weird thing to do.

02:07:44   But it is super futuristic and bond like.

02:07:48   But to me, I think if I were to summarize what the watch is,

02:07:51   I would say it's a really cool second screen

02:07:54   for your iPhone.

02:07:54   - Yeah, yeah, I would totally agree.

02:07:57   - And it's strapped to your body, so it's always there.

02:08:02   - I will say this, I have to say this before we go,

02:08:04   'cause we didn't really talk about the touch communication.

02:08:08   - Ah, yeah.

02:08:10   - But that's hard for you to talk about.

02:08:11   Here's the thing, it's hard for you to talk about though,

02:08:12   'cause Roxanna doesn't have, well, you have hers

02:08:15   and you don't have yours.

02:08:17   - Yeah, so like she's the most intimate person,

02:08:20   you know, connected to me.

02:08:22   So I have yet to try that out.

02:08:25   And so like, I mean, you sent me a tap message

02:08:30   that I only just got like when we were halfway

02:08:31   through the show 'cause I was ignoring it.

02:08:33   - No, that was my way of like,

02:08:35   I wanted it to be like, are you ready?

02:08:37   - Yeah, okay, that's nice.

02:08:39   I just did like, I sent you an old fashioned text

02:08:42   like a grandpa. - Right.

02:08:45   And it's like, so I have yet to prove out that use case,

02:08:48   I think, for myself.

02:08:49   Whether it's a heartbeat or whether it's like,

02:08:52   drawing a sketch, to me, the screen is way too small

02:08:55   to draw anything meaningful and for some reason,

02:08:57   the only thing I can think to draw is a dick and dies.

02:09:00   I don't wanna do that.

02:09:01   (laughing)

02:09:02   And then the next meaningful thing is a happy face

02:09:04   and I don't wanna do that either.

02:09:06   So I just end up not using it.

02:09:08   - I send a lot of happy faces.

02:09:09   No, but you know, I said this before,

02:09:12   It's and it's so true is that for those features and so many people after my initial review came up there

02:09:19   Like did you how many did Apple give you did they give you two so you can test the drawing?

02:09:23   And the way that we tested the drawing was we I could send taps and the heartbeats and doodles to people who worked at Apple

02:09:31   But I know and I did it just to see that it worked

02:09:34   but it always felt a little weird because it's like

02:09:37   all of those communications seem way too

02:09:41   Informal and the heartbeat one to me really does I hate to use the word because it sounds corny

02:09:45   But it really is a little intimate

02:09:47   It just doesn't seem like something you would send to somebody you have a professional relationship with

02:09:51   What do you do me a favor as an experiment? I've got I've got a tap message

02:09:56   Cued up for you. I'm just gonna try to try drawing something. All right

02:10:00   All right, because this is the first time I've done this in real time. Okay?

02:10:03   [whistling]

02:10:04   Did it come?

02:10:05   No, I didn't get it.

02:10:18   Some of these things are sometimes a little latent.

02:10:20   So I don't know.

02:10:21   Here, I'll send you a couple taps.

02:10:24   Oh yeah, I'm getting your taps.

02:10:30   That's kind of nice.

02:10:31   It's like raindrops.

02:10:32   What am I supposed to I don't even know what I'm supposed to do. We'll just draw a picture

02:10:35   Okay, but did you add me to the?

02:10:38   Yeah, you're in my favor. All right

02:10:41   And I don't think I'm getting it all right now right there it is

02:10:47   All right, so it works it's an action shot

02:11:00   This is the future I

02:11:02   Did that to Dalrymple

02:11:07   I've kind of guessed when Dalrymple was gonna get a review unit and I was checking and you can tell if somebody has an Apple

02:11:12   Watch because then when you put them in your friends and you go to their friends

02:11:16   They they get the third button down underneath, you know and say instead of just phone call and text

02:11:21   You can also send them a digital touch

02:11:22   So I just kept waiting for Dalrymple to get the digital touch and as soon as he did I sent him a similar drawing

02:11:28   So I could so that I could be at first

02:11:30   Oh that's great that feels good. Well Adam Leesagore always pleasure to have

02:11:38   you on the show. Thanks so much I was greatly looking. Really really great now

02:11:42   your sandwich video that's your company and it's your website sandwich.video

02:11:47   so that's where people can go to learn more about the amazing videos that you

02:11:51   and your what's the staff up to how big is how big a sandwich video. We're ten

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02:12:18   those locations anything else before we go no this has been enjoy thank you so

02:12:24   much for your time all right I'm gonna hit stop